BONUS The Friday Show - All Stars, No Scrubs
Guest:People paid hard-earned money to go to a honky-tonk man main event because they thought he would lose.
Guest:And that is a great heel.
Guest:And he's also a great heel because it was so simple.
Guest:Like, all he had to do was come out with his Elvis impersonation and pretend that the crowd liked him.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:You're a beautiful audience.
Guest:And they would boo the shit out of him while he did that.
Guest:And then he'd say, you want to hear my song?
Guest:Boo, no.
Guest:And then he'd sing the song anyway.
Yeah.
Guest:Chris, how are you?
Guest:Brendan, how was your fourth, man?
Guest:It was fine.
Guest:I was with family.
Guest:We were in upstate New York.
Guest:It was quiet, but very hot, as it was everywhere in the world on the hottest day in Earth's history.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But we had a very quiet, nice 4th of July.
Guest:Quiet as far as 4th of July goes.
Guest:There's fireworks going off various places.
Guest:But it was good for us.
Guest:I'm looking at you right now.
Guest:You are not in your home.
Guest:So you've been traveling.
Marc:Where were you on the 4th?
Marc:I was in Chicago.
Marc:Actually, no, that's not true.
Marc:I was home for the July 4th.
Marc:I went to Chicago beforehand.
Marc:I went to see a Cubs game and see the Hold Steady and the Mountain Goats in concert.
Marc:So that was great.
Marc:Very nice.
Marc:Yeah, did that with our friends.
Marc:And then I came home on the third.
Marc:And then on the fourth, I had to go to Omaha, Nebraska for work.
Marc:So you flew out on the 4th of July?
Marc:I did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:did.
Guest:Was it nuts?
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, it was fine.
Marc:No, it was like, I mean, there were thunderstorms that were about to touch down in Newark.
Marc:Luckily, I got out of there in time.
Marc:So, yeah, we made it.
Marc:Yeah, and then you just went to the middle of the country where there's tornadoes that will burn you at any time.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:I went over a bridge.
Marc:There's a Bob Carey bridge.
Marc:It's lovely.
Marc:It goes into Iowa.
Marc:So it got to be in Iowa for a little bit.
Marc:But yeah, mostly when I touched down, I was craving a Twilight Zone marathon.
Marc:Did you ever watch that as a kid?
Marc:In New York, they used to have a Twilight Zone marathon on WPIX.
Marc:Did you ever watch that?
Marc:Yeah, but why were you craving it now?
Marc:Just because of cornfields?
Marc:No, because it was the 4th of July, and that was my only tradition on 4th of July.
Marc:I would be inside the entire day just watching The Twilight Zone.
Marc:I loved that.
Marc:I remember it on, and I hated it.
Guest:Why'd you hate The Twilight Zone, though?
Guest:No, I didn't hate it as a show.
Guest:I hated it when it was on as a marathon.
Guest:Oh, why?
Guest:Because it was too depressing.
Yeah.
Guest:My dad would just be on the couch and never change the channel.
Guest:And I'm like, this can't get more down.
Guest:Like, I would like to watch some cartoons or something.
Marc:Our childhoods were very different.
Marc:I was like, this is an uplifting Twilight Zone episode.
Marc:That kid murdered his whole family.
Guest:Yeah, you could snap them right into the cornfield whenever you wanted.
Guest:Well, speaking of your family and friends and everything like that and your childhood, someone wrote into our comment page and this seems like it's directed entirely to you.
Guest:So I will let you take the stage because all it says is a quote saying, my brother's friend Q.
Guest:in quotes, with a question mark.
Guest:This was something you said.
Guest:You were mentioning a poster that your brother's friend Brian, and you identified him as Q from Impractical Jokers.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And this person said, can we have more about this?
Guest:You just dropped that and didn't say anything else.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I grew up in Staten Island and my brother's good friend when we were kids was Brian Quinn, who is now Q on Impractical Jokers.
Marc:And he would be over my house all the time.
Marc:We would talk comics while my brother would, you know, be getting ready or whatever.
Marc:And yeah, we were, I wouldn't say we were friends, but we were friendly.
Marc:I really, he was like my favorite one of my brother's friends.
Marc:And yeah, I grew up with Q from Impractical Jokers around my house.
Guest:But then what was he from when you knew him to Impractical Jokers?
Marc:What was his life?
Marc:So...
Marc:Let's see.
Marc:My brother worked at the Blockbuster Video, so I know that they used to hang around there.
Marc:After I moved out, I believe Brian went on to be a firefighter.
Marc:Oh, no way.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He was a firefighter for a few years, and then he dropped out and did improv comedy.
Marc:But I don't remember what his job was.
Marc:I remember he had a girlfriend that lived around the block that he was in love with.
Marc:But yeah, that's about it.
Marc:He was just a kid.
Marc:He was just a kid that I knew.
Marc:And now he's just on TV, on true TV, literally a marathon, probably a marathon on 4th of July that I can see my guy Q. So yeah.
Marc:Was he ever Q back then or it was only Brian?
Marc:No, it was always Brian.
Marc:Q is a great nickname.
Marc:But yeah, always Brian.
Marc:Never went by Q. Brian's a huge wrestling fan as well.
Marc:Yeah, we saw him at one of the AEW shows.
Marc:We sure did.
Marc:So yeah, it's wild.
Guest:And I don't remember, there was one point where one of the impractical jokers got body slammed into another one, but I don't think either of those were Q. It was two different guys.
Marc:I think it was Q. Oh, it was.
Marc:Yeah, I think Brian was the one that got, and I'll be honest with you, if this show gets big enough that either of us are going to get thrown through a table, I think you should do it.
Marc:You're, you're more of the wrestling fan.
Marc:And I feel like you, you would be able to tuck your, your chin and do it properly.
Marc:I would just break.
Guest:I think we, they should do it to us the way they did it to those guys where they put you on the table and then slam me through you.
Guest:That's how I think it would work best.
Guest:totally uh i would say i i mean man i'd wake up every day with something else hurting but i would still take a wrestling bump yeah which one oh any of them but like as long as it wasn't like a life-threatening one but if somebody told me tomorrow like oh we're gonna do a thing you're gonna get pulled out of the crowd and this guy's gonna you know body slam you straight in the ring sure absolutely
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:I would do that too.
Marc:I'm not going to be going up on a ladder like Darby Allin and torpedoing myself onto some tables, but I'll do something.
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Guest:I'm actually, yes, I would never do anything that I have to do myself.
Guest:No chance.
Guest:But if you want to take a big trained wrestler that can do a move to me, go nuts.
Guest:And I know they'll lay it in stiff because they do that with the non-professionals.
Guest:They're like, oh, we'll let, you know, they don't go the full Belzer, but they let you know, hey, this isn't for anybody, right?
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:Go for it.
Marc:Give me your best shot.
Marc:That's how I would feel.
Marc:I hope this happens and Jon Moxley brings out the tax.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:No, thank you.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I'm not going on to no tax.
Guest:You can keep the tax.
Guest:You can keep the barbed wire.
Guest:You can keep the shards of glass or whatever.
Guest:No, thank you.
Guest:But a regular old wrestling bump flat back.
Guest:Yes, it would probably it would probably wreck me for a good several years.
Guest:But one body slam.
Marc:Years.
Guest:I would also like to acknowledge this person who wrote into us and said, I just want to say that I listen to every episode, but I look forward to your Friday shows because of the same Brendan and Chris dynamic as when Mark talks to friends or comedians he connects with.
Guest:Well, thank you for that.
Guest:And I will say, at least to this one person, mission accomplished.
Marc:Because that's the whole point of this.
Marc:Thanks so much.
Marc:That's awesome.
Guest:Yes, it would not be it would not be happening.
Guest:I can assure you if it was like just me sitting here, that would not be happening from my sense of what works on a podcast and what doesn't.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:So thank you to this person.
Guest:Thank you to you, Chris, for being here and doing this.
Guest:And speaking of how we we we do this together and we have a kind of back and forth dynamic that people have come to identify.
Guest:One thing I do like to hear from you are your thoughts on any recent WTF things.
Guest:So just wondering if you're, you know, anything that jumped out at you in the last several weeks.
Guest:We haven't really talked live in the last two weeks.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I got to say the conspiracy episode took me a while to get through because I have a mom who is deep into the QAnon.
Marc:So it was rough to hear all that stuff.
Marc:And I joke about it with my friends and family, but man, it's rough to know that my mom is just deep in it.
Marc:and there's no sign of her escaping.
Marc:And I don't know what to do.
Marc:It's just like, she's just in it.
Marc:So yeah, so that was a rough episode.
Marc:How was that episode editing for you?
Marc:Did you have to edit anything out?
Guest:no no in fact you know that's the kind of thing where i'm not at any level of expert on it like mark is or definitely not like the guest robert guffey and so what i'm doing is just making sure do i understand this like as i'm i'm learning as i'm listening and so if there's stuff there's in fact there's stuff that i had to tell mark hey when you do your intro make sure you say you know uh what this book was or this author you know like because they bring
Guest:them up and then they talk about it all excitedly and i'm like yeah nobody knows what that is so he set it up in the intro and as long as we're doing that kind of thing then it's not a difficult edit uh i mean if it was a if it was a guest who themselves were like you know weaving conspiracies i would imagine it would be much harder to edit but the way they did it was was fine
Guest:um and yeah i mean i can imagine it being on your side uh tough to reconcile um the uh the reality of that although i do think like mark says a thing in that episode that's so great and it just cuts to the chase so easily where it's like well if you believe in god you'll basically believe in anything so you know that's the starting point for all this stuff
Marc:Totally.
Marc:And also, he mentioned his, he quoted himself from Jerusalem Syndrome, which he gave me a copy when we used to work together.
Marc:And he actually, yeah, he signed it.
Marc:I have a signed copy of Jerusalem Syndrome hanging out on my bookshelf.
Marc:Oh, that's cool.
Marc:Yeah, I think it actually says, I couldn't do this without you, which is really sweet.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That is, and he meant that.
Guest:That is a sweet thing.
Guest:And I know he meant that for real at the time.
Marc:Although he probably meant it like literally, like he couldn't push the buttons to turn on the radio, right?
Guest:Yes, that's I think exactly what he meant.
Guest:I literally can't do this without you.
Guest:I remember he signed something for Pashman.
Guest:It was, it was his CD that I think was his first CD not sold out.
Guest:And, uh, Dan had a copy of it and, you know, we'd been working together for a while.
Guest:And, uh, Dan said, you know, I do like to get any CD that I can get signed.
Guest:I like the, the liner notes.
Guest:I like people to sign them.
Guest:I have a collection of signed thing.
Guest:Can you sign mine?
Guest:I know it's weird that we work together.
Guest:And Mark was like, yeah, no, absolutely.
Guest:And, uh,
Guest:He said something on it.
Guest:I don't remember exactly what it was, but like to paraphrase, it was just like, you know, Dan, you've been a pleasure to get to know and work with.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Something very nice and polite.
Guest:Signed, Mark.
Guest:And he goes and he goes to hand it back to Dan.
Guest:He goes, wait, that's too nice.
Guest:And then he just wrote, you fuck.
Marc:Ha ha ha ha.
Marc:That's perfect.
Guest:I mean, you wouldn't want another Mark signature other than that.
Guest:That's like the actual one you want.
Marc:Yes, for sure.
Marc:And I also just got done listening to the Joanna Gleason episode.
Marc:That was amazing.
Marc:She has quite a career.
Marc:I didn't know she did all that.
Guest:I mean, he mentioned he kind of like mentioned me in passing in that talk with her because I was talking to Mark about like, no, when I was a kid, like she was one of the big three.
Guest:Like when I grew up in New York and you'd see Broadway show ads on TV all the time and you just kind of knew like who the big Broadway stars were.
Guest:And it was like, yeah, Bernadette Peters, her.
Guest:her and betty buckley like in the 80s those were those were the ones where you were like oh yeah if they're if they're in a show that's a that's a show that's a blockbuster right like they're gonna be they're gonna be singing the shit out of that thing and uh yeah like so i really remember i remember that into the woods that she was in being on pbs all the time we would see it a lot uh so yeah i i
Guest:I thought that was a great episode, too.
Guest:And she she seemed very grateful to do it.
Guest:I think she flew out specifically to do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She brought like pickles and everything really went all out, honestly.
Guest:I also want to address this is related to our bonus content.
Guest:You know, we put another thing up this week of bonus full Marin material.
Guest:That was the third acts that we used to have on the show.
Guest:And one of the things that I was going to do right when we were putting it together was add another one of the Nick Kroll El Chupacabra segments that we had done in the past.
Guest:And the day that we were going to record, you know, the wraparounds for that, and I was going to put this stuff together and...
Guest:upload it i got a comment on our uh friday show page here from a listener that says his name is juan and he said like i can't believe you guys aired that thing with nick kroll that was super offensive and it's not what i expect when i'm paying money for this thing and uh i'm glad i got that because i i
Guest:I did say to Mark, listen, I think this is valid.
Guest:I wasn't even thinking of it in the way this listener referred to it, but he referred to it as brown voice.
Guest:Like you're letting a guy do an impression of a Latin person.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, you know, he has none of that ethnicity or heritage, you know, and I feel like we can talk about this as something as a kind of separate phrase.
Guest:episode that he and i do and we can talk about some of the stuff that you know is in the past and in the catalog that we have and whether or not it still holds as something that should be re-examined or listened to again and so uh one i did cut that out of this week's uh show it uh made me think about it again think twice and go okay i gotta hear this out and
Guest:There's no reason for me to go put it in there if I'm reading from someone saying it's highly offensive to them.
Guest:So that was taken out of this week's show.
Guest:And Mark and I, in an upcoming bonus episode, will kind of directly address this exact idea.
Marc:And just shows how much, you know, your voice matters.
Marc:Like literally, like one guy, you know, wrote in and you, you, you know, caught Brendan and just cut it out of the episode.
Marc:That's awesome.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I would have felt really bad if I had posted it and then saw the comment afterwards.
Guest:So I'm glad I checked it when I did.
Guest:But yeah, I mean, hey, listen, this is like, just in case you're wondering, that is not necessarily something that Mark and I would do, like just when we would see a Twitter comment about like the regular WTF show.
Guest:Like if somebody said, I heard a guest you had on there and I don't like that person.
Guest:And it's like, well, OK, but you can go listen to something else then.
Guest:But you guys who subscribe to this full Marin, you're paying customers, and we do take what your feedback is seriously.
Guest:And, I mean, it's literally why Chris and I are sitting here doing this, because we had people join up who wanted different kind of content, and we're trying to give it to them.
Guest:So let's...
Guest:Let's all continue to be in that loop.
Guest:If you have ideas or questions or things that you want us to address, go ahead and send them in.
Guest:We've got the comment page right in the episode description.
Guest:Just click on the link there and you can send that right in to us.
Guest:Let me get into this other comment here.
Guest:It says, as baseball fans, I would love to hear your thoughts on two and a half hour baseball games.
Guest:I really like the new rules, but the faster pace keeps throwing me off.
Guest:Okay, so for those of you who don't
Guest:know what this listener is talking about, this year, Major League Baseball has adopted new rules that limit the amount of time the pitcher can hold the ball before delivering a pitch, limits the amount of timeouts that a batter can take, limits basically visits to the mound, and all the things that kind of hold up the game.
Guest:And so what has happened is the
Guest:The duration of the games has shrunk dramatically, like as as much as you possibly could shrink it from one season to the next.
Guest:And yeah, roughly two and a half hours is about how long a lot of these games are taking now, where they used to Yankees Red Sox game could go over four hours.
Guest:Yeah, easy, easily.
Guest:So this person is asking us, what do we think?
Guest:And Chris, I will let you answer first.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:So first of all, I like my regular season baseball games like I like my wrestling shows under three hours.
Marc:But I'm of two minds of these shorter games.
Marc:And by the way, I love the other rules, the bigger bases and no shift.
Marc:Fantastic.
Marc:No notes.
Marc:Now, I've been to two games and, dude, I've been to two games.
Marc:Cubs games at Wrigley Field, and I haven't been to any Citi Field games this year, which is just crazy to me.
Marc:And it's July already.
Marc:But the games go by real fast.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Like, watching at home, it's a dream.
Marc:It's like watching a condensed game.
Marc:At the ballpark, though, it happens almost too fast.
Marc:That's what I've heard.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Half an inning last week took seven pitches.
Marc:Seven, dude.
Marc:Seven pitches, and we were on to the next half inning.
Guest:But also, I mean, a seven-pitch inning last year could be 10 minutes long.
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:A seven-pitch inning now, it's 15 seconds or you've got a ball against you, right?
Guest:So 15 seconds, you better deliver that thing home.
Guest:Seven pitches, that could be a three-minute inning.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And it was short, man.
Marc:It was super short.
Marc:I felt bad for the other pitcher.
Marc:So at the game, we had time to sit, watch three innings, go get food, go back to our seats, eat the food, explore the stadium a little bit, and then boom, it's the ninth inning already.
Marc:It happens so fast, man.
Marc:I'm honestly, I'm not sure if I'm going to like playoff games being this quick.
Marc:Like if game one of the World Series is over in two hours, five minutes, it's going to be weird for
Marc:Fox can put on another show at 9 o'clock p.m.
Marc:Eastern.
Marc:It's going to be weird.
Guest:I don't know that it matters, even in a World Series game, that the thing moves fast because they will always manufacture ways to get the ad breaks in there.
Guest:So if they tell you it's going to be a three-hour game, it's like football where they do TV timeouts.
Guest:They're going to elongate things in between innings and whatnot, and they're going to stretch that game out.
Guest:I also think once you get into the playoffs, and there's a lot more strategy going on about having guys come in to face certain batters and that, there will be more breaks, and the game will get longer.
Guest:As someone who this season has not yet been to a baseball game,
Guest:On TV, they are a dream.
Guest:It is so amazing watching a game go two and a half hours after years of them just getting longer and longer and longer.
Guest:It was bloat.
Guest:It would happen every year.
Guest:But you are not the first person that I have heard say it makes it too short at the game.
Guest:I have a friend who is a lifelong Red Sox fan.
Guest:His family still has tickets.
Guest:but he lives in Connecticut.
Guest:It's quite a drive for him to get out to Fenway.
Guest:And when he got there, they were there and the game was like an hour and 59 minutes.
Guest:Like it was a fast one.
Guest:And he was like, I should have stayed home.
Guest:Like it's gonna be longer with me in the car here and back
Guest:than the game actually was.
Guest:So I get it.
Guest:I do think, though, it might just take a little bit of adjustment for the live experience.
Guest:Maybe they'll think of some ways to activate your time at the ballpark a little better.
Guest:But I think overall for the health of the game and keeping people watching baseball, making sure the games are played in a relatively speedy fashion is only good for the game.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:I mean, there's no going back, by the way.
Marc:I want the pitch clock to stay.
Marc:I do think that in later innings, the pitchers should maybe get 10 more seconds to pitch.
Marc:I also think if a batter or pitcher isn't ready, they should be docked a timeout or step off if they have one available to them.
Marc:And if they don't have one available to them, then a ball or strike is called against them.
Marc:That's fine.
Marc:I just think the rule is sometimes a little much, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And, you know, some of that has been like it was very ticky tacky at the beginning of the year.
Guest:And I think they're starting to, like, you know, feel their way through.
Guest:Some of it's just going to be a little bit of a learning curve.
Guest:And I'm fine with that, too.
Guest:But, you know, it's just like that's the other thing.
Guest:The only guarantee is that there will be change.
Guest:And I'm not a guy who stands in the way of change.
Guest:One thing that has changed tremendously was the home run derby at the All-Star game, which is perfect now.
Guest:You know, like it used to be a thing I didn't care about at all.
Guest:But now that they do this in like a tournament format where you go, like it's like two guys go up again.
Guest:Like it's like brackets, like you two, then you two.
Guest:And now you're going to face us in the semifinals and now the finals.
Guest:And they have these rules of like...
Guest:The balls that get you extra points.
Guest:And I mean, they just totally improve that thing.
Guest:It is now one of the highlights of the year is the Home Run Derby when it used to be completely stupid.
Marc:Yes, totally.
Marc:And I'm excited for Pete Alonso to hopefully win again.
Marc:He's up against Julio Rodriguez.
Marc:It also helps that we have a great player in the Home Run Derby now.
Guest:That activates me.
Guest:I have to say.
Guest:I was never a huge all star game person, even when I was a kid.
Guest:It never really meant anything to me.
Guest:And my daddy meant a lot to him.
Guest:And I think it was because, yeah, I think it was because he comes from an era where the leagues didn't play each other.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like you only saw someone from the if you're a National League fan.
Guest:of a National League team, you only saw an American League team in the World Series.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:And so I think that the idea of the All-Star Game meant a lot more when the, you know, the teams were kept separate.
Guest:And now why would you ever keep the team separate?
Guest:You know, it's a global sport or you're hoping for it to be a global sport.
Guest:You want people everywhere kind of finding their teams, finding their favorites.
Guest:And so these players are always playing each other.
Guest:So the All-Star Game seems weird.
Guest:However, it did get me thinking about like, well, part of it is just to have the name right to be like, who are your all stars this year?
Guest:And that to me is still important where you're like, these guys are the best at these specific positions and I want them represented that way.
Guest:I thought about that with adding another step to it, like.
Guest:It's almost like having your all-star team is like a Mount Rushmore representation, right?
Guest:But just with more players.
Guest:And you want, okay, this guy's the best at catcher.
Guest:This guy's the best at first base, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:You go on and on.
Guest:Fill out a whole team with the best.
Guest:I wanted to try and do that with some other things.
Guest:Like, what is the best of this or best of that?
Guest:And we're going to do it in a few minutes about wrestling.
Guest:But Chris, you had a great idea.
Guest:You said, what about comedy?
Guest:Like, what's the best of this stuff?
Guest:And your categories for this were best stand-up, best sitcom star, best sitcom secondary character, which I thought was an interesting distinction, best comedy movie star,
Guest:best comedy writer, and best comedy duo.
Guest:And that is like, if you fill this out, that's a comedy all-star team.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you do one yourself?
Marc:Did you come up with some yourself?
Marc:Honestly, who cares what I think?
Marc:I want to hear from the comedy guy.
Marc:Like, I'm just some dum-dum.
Marc:I want to hear your list.
Guest:So you sent this to me because you thought that I have a comedy leg up because of the work that I do?
Marc:Yeah, 100%.
Marc:Not only that, but you also grew up watching comedy.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:You lived comedy.
Marc:Also, you're an elephant and you remember everything.
Marc:If anyone will have a best so-and-so, it's going to be you.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Well, I gave it a whirl and I filled it out.
Guest:So I do have my comedy all-star team based on Chris's categories, okay?
Guest:And if you're playing at home and you want to send us your comedy all-star team, again, it's Best Stand-Up, Best Sitcom Star, Best Sitcom Secondary Character, Best Comedy Movie Star, Best Comedy Writer, and Best Comedy Duo.
Guest:And I'll start at the top with Best Stand-Up, which...
Guest:I gave it a lot of thought.
Guest:And ultimately, I cannot top George Carlin.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like best of all time.
Guest:Best of all time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that basically is a kind of defining difference between me and Mark.
Guest:whereas Mark's obvious favorite of all time is Richard Pryor.
Guest:And I wouldn't say that Mark is not a fan of George Carlin, but he always talks about how he respects George Carlin, but he was not his style, right?
Guest:And I think the thing there is that Carlin's act, a lot of times, especially if you watch his hours that he did later in life,
Guest:They were almost monologues, like a rehearsed piece where it was very specific.
Guest:The language was precise and he would get from one thing to the next very clearly.
Guest:Whereas Richard was much in the same mold of Mark, someone going off of vibe, going off of energy, trying to make new connections happen and really doing it by getting very, very, very personal all the time.
Guest:Comparing those two things, it's total like apples and oranges.
Guest:But it is, I think, a lot about your personality.
Guest:And for me, personality-wise and who I am and where all my humor came from and things that really shaped my mind, like having my dad's George Carlin albums when I was a kid were absolutely part of that.
Guest:And then wanting to watch his HBO specials, like when they would air live,
Guest:I can't back off the total impression that, you know, George Carlin had on my life with, you know, as a formative comedic experience.
Marc:Wow, that's really well said.
Marc:And knowing you and...
Marc:And how you describe George Carlin and his later albums, man, that is so perfect because you do not do things on a vibe.
Marc:You dig into the numbers, you make sure it's structurally sound, and then you proceed.
Marc:So that's really cool.
Marc:By the way, I do not have a very large oeuvre of stand-up.
Marc:My favorite stand-up, though, John Mulaney.
Marc:I really like his stand-up.
Guest:Well, also, it's he's done quite a journey in his stand up.
Guest:Like that's it's that's that's also something that I value highly is if, you know, the person's first album is good, but totally different from where they are in their most recent material.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like have they evolved?
Guest:And he sure has.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Best sitcom star.
Guest:I think this is controversial, but I can't deny it.
Guest:I'm going to go for it anyway.
Guest:What do you got?
Guest:It's controversial because this is undoubtedly the star of the show.
Guest:It's like the person with the most prominent role in the show.
Guest:But he's playing multiple characters and you never see him.
Guest:But he is the greatest sitcom star of all time.
Guest:Wait, what?
Marc:Who is it?
Guest:Dan Castellaneta.
Marc:What?
Marc:Who is he playing?
Marc:That's the voice of Homer Simpson.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:Yeah, that is, that is, it's almost, it's not a cheat.
Marc:It is, it is actually, yeah, you nailed it.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Well, because it's like, even if he was only Homer, he'd be up there in the conversation.
Guest:But then he's also- How many other voices does he do?
Guest:He's Krusty the Clown.
Guest:He's Grandpa.
Guest:He's, you know, it's like, it's just, it's so many of the classic characters from that show, which is, you know, by far the greatest sitcom of all time.
Guest:And so if you have the greatest sitcom of all time and the character who's at the helm of that is one of the greatest characters ever.
Guest:And the guy doing it is amazing and has been doing it for 33 years or however long it is.
Guest:Like, yeah, he's the best sitcom star of all time.
Guest:Oh, man, I wasn't even thinking of that.
Guest:But now if we move into the idea of character, and you said as part of the category, best sitcom secondary character.
Guest:There was one that popped in my head and it never left.
Guest:And, you know, I think if you could probably sit around and figure out, there's millions of amazing secondary sitcom characters.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But the one who will be forever my all-star is...
Marc:Hey now, Hank Kingsley.
Marc:Oh, that's great.
Marc:That's a great one.
Marc:Oh man.
Marc:Is that on, is that on max?
Guest:It better fucking be because if they took that off, I will go, I will, uh,
Guest:I will go Jason Bailey on David Zaslav.
Guest:Did you see that, by the way?
Guest:Our buddy, Jason Bailey, who is a former WTF guest, who's the writer of Fun City Cinema, who had a great podcast that I was on that was a companion to that book, Fun City Cinema.
Guest:He wrote a piece for GQ.
Guest:called, like, Why David Zaslav is the Most Hated Man in Hollywood or something like that.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And GQ, which is part of, like, the umbrella company, is connected to Warner Brothers Discovery.
Guest:And the editor-in-chief currently has a deal with Warner Brothers to make a movie.
Guest:So some Zaslav flunky...
Guest:They contacted GQ and said, take the article down or edit it or change it or whatever.
Guest:They tried to change it.
Guest:Jason said, well, then you have to take my name off it because I don't agree to this.
Guest:And so instead they just pulled it like that's like, hey.
Guest:number one violation of like journalistic ethics like you don't pull a piece because somebody complained about it that's that's the subject of the piece like you can issue a retraction and say we don't stand by the facts in this we think this person got something factually wrong but you can't get fucking bullied by this so if jason bailey is the guy who brings down david zasloff like i i wouldn't be i couldn't think of a greater
Guest:outcome than that.
Guest:I really hope that that's the case.
Guest:Because now if you're just David Zaslav, who is that guy?
Guest:I mean, this guy has already screwed up Warner Brothers.
Guest:He's screwed up HBO.
Guest:He's screwed up DC.
Guest:He's screwed up CNN.
Guest:He may have screwed up AEW because he is the one who made AEW have a second show on Saturday nights, which is struggling in the ratings, which is going to happen when you oversaturate the market.
Guest:And like, hopefully AEW can like pull out of that and kind of, you know, figure out how to course correct.
Guest:They have done several times.
Guest:I have faith in them.
Guest:But hey, if that screws up the company, that's David Zaslav's fault.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So my little sidetrack here is to give some kudos to Jason Bailey for his disruption of the Empire of David Zaslav.
Guest:Much appreciated.
Marc:I didn't know that Jason wrote that article.
Marc:That's unbelievable.
Guest:By the way, here's some free advice to all the Fortune 500 CEOs who have subscribed to the full Marin and are listening to this.
Guest:Free advice.
Guest:It's worth what you're paying for it.
Guest:But here it is anyway.
Guest:Never do that.
Guest:If somebody writes something that like makes fun of you and is like saying you're the worst ever, that's fine.
Guest:You let them do that.
Guest:You make millions.
Guest:You never have to worry about that person ever.
Guest:What you do by telling someone to remove it, that is never going to stay secret.
Guest:Everyone's going to find out about it.
Guest:And now you look like a clod.
Guest:Don't do that.
Guest:But again, free advice to Fortune 500 CEOs to take it or leave it.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Back to your list here, Chris.
Guest:Best comedy movie star.
Guest:Easy.
Guest:Easy as pie.
Guest:The easiest one you put here.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Who do you got?
Guest:Eddie Murphy.
Guest:Ah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, no one.
Marc:No contest.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No one comes even close.
Guest:No, I mean, like everybody can have their favorites and whatever, but like the string of Eddie hits from the 80s is unrivaled ever.
Guest:I mean, like, sure, I guess, you know, you go back to like studio era and, you know, Bob Hope and, you know, that's fine.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But that's a different context and a different time.
Guest:And there weren't the entertainment options available.
Guest:And through multiple media, when Eddie Murphy took Hollywood by storm and was the greatest comedy movie star ever by box office standards, but also by hilarity.
Marc:Yeah, I used to even watch The Golden Child on VHS.
Marc:I was like, I don't know, it kind of works.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:yeah it's and it's like it was people it came out and everyone was like oh he finally did it he released a stinker what a bomb and it made like a gazillion dollars and and people largely have the reaction you do where they watch and they're like that wasn't that bad eddie's great um the golden job's probably like the best example of why he was the best comedy movie star because anyone else that movie would have just been a total turd yeah
Guest:All right, this was the hardest one, best comedy writer.
Guest:Because it could just be, there's just so many.
Guest:And there's so many for various reasons, right?
Guest:And this is where the legendary people should be.
Guest:Like Elaine May, Buck Henry, Tina Fey.
Guest:These are the people you think, what's their legacy?
Guest:What did they leave behind?
Guest:Well, they had a lot of things, but they were awesome writers, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's very hard to parse through it.
Guest:And ultimately what it had to come down to was someone who was basically began as a writer, known as a writer, but became hugely popular, hugely successful, an all-star in any conceivable way that you want to measure them.
Guest:Dane Cook.
Yeah.
Guest:Yes, the all star of my space.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:No, I picked Mr. Mel Brooks.
Guest:That would be the greatest comedy writer.
Marc:That's what I figured he'd say.
Marc:Yeah, there's like it's it's him.
Marc:And then again, just like Eddie, there's the rest are miles below.
Guest:Yeah, because it's like also you take Mel Brooks writing out of everything he ever made.
Guest:Like pretend he was just a guy who directed things and he was like directing the script of somebody else.
Guest:It's nothing like you don't you can't there's nothing there's nothing supremely distinct about like the Mel Brooks visual style or visual comedy or anything.
Guest:It's all his writing.
Guest:It's because he built these things that are still hilarious to this day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Best comedy duo.
Guest:This was tough again.
Guest:And it's also because there's like so many of them are like classics from the like silent movie era and stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like you've got like Laurel and Hardy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Abbott and Costello.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And and then I started thinking I was like, but who like as a duo has like made me laugh more than any other, you know, group of two people.
Guest:And I came very close to potentially awarding this to Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:But like ultimately too many stinkers, right?
Guest:Like if you look at the, like.
Guest:It's high.
Guest:Superbad and this is the end.
Guest:And these are all great.
Guest:But then for every one of those, there's like, you know, the Green Hornet or something.
Guest:And you're like, all right, there's a lot of duds here.
Guest:But that got me thinking, is there anyone similar to this?
Guest:And it's just all gold or at least mostly gold.
Guest:And yes, there is.
Guest:Who is that?
Guest:And this is crazy because you don't think of them as comedy, but they absolutely are.
Guest:And that would be the brothers, Joel and Ethan Coen.
Marc:Oh, that's outstanding.
Marc:Man, that is a smart pick.
Marc:That's why I asked you these questions.
Marc:That is a smart pick that I would never have thought of.
Marc:And yeah, that's perfect.
Marc:Raising Arizona.
Marc:I mean, just even their movies that aren't comedies are funny.
Marc:Like No Country for Old Men.
Guest:Yeah, even things with horrible things happening in them are funny.
Guest:Like, there's funny stuff in even, like, the most hardcore, violent things they've created.
Guest:Yeah, that's a great, great list.
Guest:Good job.
Guest:All right, so my all-star team for comedy, as prompted by Chris, is George Carlin, Dan Castellaneta, Hey Now, Hank Kingsley from The Larry Sanders Show, Eddie Murphy, Mel Brooks,
Guest:Joel and Ethan Coen.
Guest:I feel like that's good.
Guest:I feel bad for some of the people I couldn't include.
Guest:Like I did really want to include Tina Fey or like Elaine May and Mike Nichols.
Guest:Like I felt like they kind of should be in here.
Guest:But hey, we're talking about the all like your favorites don't all get selected to the all star team.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, this could only be one shortstop.
Yeah.
Guest:All right, well, this is a point in the show where we usually talk about wrestling, and I wanted to talk about wrestling in terms of this selection process, the best, the all-stars.
Guest:And so I came up with some categories, and I sent them to Chris and wanted us both to kind of weigh in on our feeling of who would make our all-star team.
Guest:And these were the categories.
Guest:I have Best Babyface Champion, Best Heel Champion, Best Women's Champion,
Guest:best tag team best brawler best high flyer best technical wrestler and best talker so chris where where do you want to start you want to start right at the top no let's start at the bottom and work our way up to the top how about that okay i like that idea i like that it was we'll end with the champions okay yeah so let's start with best talker who you got
Marc:So I debated this a bit, and I think you have to give it to Stone Cold Steve Austin as the best talker.
Guest:Oh, I totally thought I knew where you were going with that, and you went Stone Cold.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, he was...
Marc:Awesome on the mic.
Marc:He changed, like, how you watch wrestling, how you participate in wrestling with the what, you know, after everyone's pausing.
Marc:Like, it was revolutionary what he did.
Marc:So, yeah, Stone Cold is my pick for best talker.
Marc:Who did you think I was going to take?
Guest:I thought you took the same person I did.
Guest:And it's because, like, I agree with you.
Guest:Like, Stone Cold...
Guest:is is one of the greatest but i do think a lot of that was was character work right and when i'm thinking about like someone who is great on the mic it's that basically like you could send them out there for an hour and they're just going to talk on the mic like mjf currently is like that yeah and the guy who is the best at that in the history of wrestling
Guest:is The Rock.
Marc:Yeah, he was my number two.
Marc:He was going to be... Yeah, he's right there.
Guest:I don't think anyone would complain about The Rock and Stone Cold being on the All-Star team.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, best technical wrestler.
Guest:Now, this... It's up in the air.
Guest:What do you mean by that?
Guest:But what I come to mean by technical wrestler is a person who, when they're doing...
Guest:the match you actually believe they know what they're doing technically like this is a this is a guy who could be like in the olympics right and he'd be a conceit oh yeah that that person he technically sound so who did you have for this
Marc:Well, I had Goldberg.
Marc:No, no, I did not have Goldberg as the best technical wrestler.
Marc:But someone who is related, the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be, Bret Hart is the best technical wrestler, in my opinion.
Guest:A great choice.
Guest:A great choice.
Guest:The thing with Bret is you never watched any Bret Hart match and didn't believe 100% that Bret Hart thought everything he was doing was real.
Guest:You watched him do it and you were like, well, that's convincing.
Guest:He really looks like he's cranking that guy's arm.
Guest:I went back and forth on this because I thought, I'm like, am I just saying this because I watch this guy a lot currently?
Guest:But then I did really consider his total body of work.
Guest:And since he's been wrestling for over 20 years now, I think it counts.
Guest:And especially because he is one of the best.
Guest:But it's Brian Danielson.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a guy who I am totally convinced every time I watch him that he technically is...
Guest:doing exactly what he should be doing in a match at any given moment.
Marc:He wrestled for 10 minutes on a broken arm, man.
Marc:Like if he can do that and still convincing.
Marc:And made it look good.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I didn't even know he had a broken arm.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:Yeah, he was my honorable mention for sure.
Marc:Okay, best high flyer.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So again, for me, a lot of my stuff comes from old WWF era.
Marc:Oh, so Coco Beware.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:No.
Marc:And, like, the guys in AEW are just unbelievable now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I have to say, for the All-Star team, for me, it's Shawn Michaels.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's perfect.
Marc:I love the Rockers.
Marc:I love their finishing move.
Marc:Michaels continued the tradition of flying off the top ropes.
Marc:And for me as a kid, when I saw that happen and him flying everywhere made me honestly fall in love with wrestling.
Marc:So yeah, Shawn Michaels is my best high flyer.
Guest:That's a great pick.
Guest:I mean, nobody's going to fault you for that.
Guest:I mean, he's one of the greats of all time in multiple categories, but to say as a high flyer, that's where you'd put him, I would agree.
Guest:I would think you could put Owen Hart there as well.
Guest:He definitely got some consideration from me.
Guest:But the one I put, it's not the same as you because I was definitely well into...
Guest:my teenage years as a wrestling fan when I first saw this guy, it's not like watching him got me into wrestling, but the first time I saw this guy and then every subsequent time after, I thought, oh, we're in a different world now.
Guest:Like, you can do this.
Guest:And that's Rey Mysterio Jr.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's a great choice.
Guest:Like, that's a guy who really, like, I felt the same way about that that I did last year when we watched that match with Vikingo.
Guest:And it was like, what is this guy doing?
Guest:How is he able to defy gravity like this?
Guest:That was what happened with the first time I saw Rey Mysterio.
Marc:Yeah, I see.
Marc:I wish I saw more of Rey Mysterio.
Marc:I just haven't, unfortunately.
Guest:Yeah, well, that was because of my early adoption of ECW when I was younger.
Guest:He was on some of the kind of formative episodes of that show.
Guest:And then, yeah, he was over in WCW for a good period of time.
Guest:So wait, they had high flyers in ECW?
Guest:Oh, they had like straight up Lucha.
Guest:Like they brought in, like they were like, okay, and now the Lucha section of the show.
Guest:And they would be like, you know, Rey Mysterio versus Psychosis.
Guest:And we're going to do a full on Lucha Libre match and have a Spanish announcer and everything.
Guest:And yeah, that was my first exposure to Lucha Libre was watching that.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:OK, best brawler.
Guest:This is basically don't overthink this.
Guest:It is what it is.
Guest:Somebody who it looks really convincing when they are just fighting, throwing punches, being violent, whatever it is.
Marc:Who is your best brawler?
Marc:So currently, this is Eddie Kingston.
Marc:I'm just loving what he is doing right now.
Marc:But all-time, all-star team, Mick Foley, hands down, not even up for debate.
Marc:Whether it was Cactus Jack, Mankind, or Dude Love, never seen a guy give more to wrestling than Mick.
Marc:He was literally indestructible.
Guest:Well, this is the first time we have the same answer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I put Mick Foley as best brawler.
Guest:There's a part of me that thought I'm biased because he's legit my favorite wrestler of all time.
Guest:And like it only he only solidified that spot from being an awesome dude the times when we've met him.
Guest:But yeah, Mick Foley wins this hands down.
Guest:He's the greatest.
Guest:He has redefined what it means to be a brawling wrestler.
Guest:The second best in my mind is Terry Funk, who was Mick Foley's mentor.
Guest:And it is definitely one of those cases where the student surpassed the teacher because I would easily rank Mick Foley ahead of Terry Funk.
Guest:And they are both among the greats of all time.
Guest:Awesome.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Now we're getting into the individual title holders and champions.
Guest:And so we're going for best tag team.
Guest:Who makes your all-star team of best tag team?
Marc:So this, I mean, when it comes to tag team, I have one just picture in my head.
Marc:And it's of an old WWF magazine.
Marc:I would just, I think I pinned it to my wall.
Marc:It was the Legion of Doom.
Marc:They were the tag team for me.
Marc:I remember seeking out old Road Warriors clips that they did.
Marc:They were just the coolest tag team on the planet.
Marc:They had a cool entrance music.
Marc:They had the shoulder pads with spikes on them.
Marc:They had the Ultimate Warrior makeup.
Marc:They were just it for me.
Guest:Yeah, and then when they got in the ring, they killed people.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:They were world beaters.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, it's happened again.
Guest:This is also my pick.
Guest:So we are now two categories where we pick the same thing for our teams.
Guest:And yes, same... I echo everything you say.
Guest:Like, it's very hard to be a better team than the Road Warriors, the Legion of Doom.
Guest:You can have...
Guest:awesome teams that have great guys in them.
Guest:Like the Hart Foundation was an awesome team, but that's largely because of Bret Hart or, you know, the Rockers, like, you know, with Shawn Michaels and on and on it goes.
Guest:But the Legion of Doom, Road Warriors, as they were known, is just, that's a unity, right?
Guest:Like you're talking about a thing where like one of them by themselves means nothing, but as a team, they're the greatest.
Guest:And RIP to both of them.
Guest:That's a bummer.
Guest:OK, best women's champion.
Guest:Now, this one is a little tricky because, well, I'll see.
Guest:What's your answer on this, Chris?
Marc:Chyna.
Marc:Chyna was undeniable.
Marc:Like, she could hold her own against the men.
Marc:I mean, she was that good.
Marc:So Chyna, for me, best women's champ.
Marc:How about you?
Marc:All right.
Guest:So here's the thing.
Guest:China's a good answer for what I'm about to say.
Guest:Because, unfortunately, and this does not reflect well on the wrestling industry, the role of women on the shows has been largely eye candy and was nowhere near in any way...
Guest:treated as equal to the men.
Guest:It's why China was such a standout, despite being, you know, nothing to write home about as a wrestler and fairly limited in what you could do in the ring.
Guest:Physically, she was very imposing.
Guest:And so they, like you said, fought her against the men as well as the women.
Guest:And it was just a different presentation than what was happening with all the other women where they were like in bikini contests.
Guest:And that didn't change for a very long time.
Guest:And now it's much different.
Guest:And I think you could easily pick any number of current wrestlers in WWE, in AEW, in the independents, internationally, who are excellent wrestlers and also happen to be women.
Guest:And because of this, throughout the history of wrestling, the real great women's wrestling came from Japan.
Guest:And this might be like a public service announcement, I guess, for a lot of people who might not be aware of this.
Guest:If you don't know about some great Japanese women's wrestling, I urge you to check out anything from all Japan pro wrestling in the 80s and 90s.
Guest:It's all excellent.
Guest:And there's one wrestler.
Guest:manami toyota who is not just the best women's champ many people rate her as the greatest wrestler of all time so you would uh be doing yourself a great favor to go watch manami toyota and her arch rival kyoko inoue and uh it's it's as good chris i'm not shitting you they are as good as watching like kenny omega and will osprey no kidding just as good
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:So if you want somewhere to start, I highly recommend that.
Guest:And I'll put some links to some great clips in the episode description.
Guest:To me, it's like a no-brainer, too.
Guest:It's like if somebody just came up to me on the street, hey, who's the greatest women's wrestler of all time?
Guest:Oh, Monami Toyota.
Guest:Like, it's just...
Guest:But very few people are aware of it because it's not available to just watch.
Guest:Like you'd have to get tapes or now that there's YouTube links, you can watch them on YouTube.
Guest:But back in the day, it was not available in America.
Guest:So yes, only my high level wrestling nerddom brought me to that.
Guest:And I'm glad I have it because now I can put her on my all-star team.
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:I also like that she has an arch nemesis.
Marc:I feel like more wrestlers should have an arch nemesis.
Guest:Oh, totally.
Guest:Well, you know, you get an arch nemesis when it's also someone awesome and you have great matches all the time.
Guest:Yeah, like Omega and Osprey, for sure.
Guest:Yeah, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we're getting into top champions here.
Guest:So best heel champion.
Guest:This has to be a heel.
Guest:Who's your pick for best heel champion?
Marc:I'm going to say Hulk Hogan.
Guest:Oh, like Hollywood Hulk Hogan, NWO Hulk Hogan.
Guest:No, no, when he was playing a good guy.
Marc:That guy sucked.
Yeah.
Guest:We have been documenting that here on this show for months that even hero Hulk Hogan was a total heel.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So I don't I don't disagree with you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He was always throwing sand in people's faces or cheating to win.
Marc:Like you would do as a heel champion.
Marc:He would just go back and watch it.
Marc:He was always cheating.
Marc:He would throw the ashes from Undertaker's urn in his face.
Marc:That guy sucked.
Marc:And people loved him.
Guest:Well, like we said, the ethos of Hulk Hogan and Hulkamania was if Hulk does it, it's okay.
Guest:If it's done to him, it's bad.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So, you know, he was totally justified in raking these guys in the eyes or if you take, you know, Jimmy Hart and a wrestler and knock their heads together.
Guest:He was he thought that was 100 percent A-OK.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:So, yeah, he's my best heel champion.
Guest:I applaud you for that.
Guest:I'm going to go with.
Guest:So here's the thing.
Guest:it was best heel champion.
Guest:Nowhere to say that this has to be the world champion, right?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I am going with the champion.
Guest:In fact, a champion for a very long time.
Guest:He is the current record holder for the intercontinental title.
Guest:And I think is the best heel champion of all time.
Guest:The Honky Tonk Man.
Marc:Oh, that's fantastic.
Marc:Yeah, that is a great heel champion.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:People paid money to watch him get beat, and then he wouldn't get beat, and they would go back the next month and pay money to hope he would get beat then.
Guest:Like...
Guest:There are very few people, individuals in wrestling who you could say sold tickets, right?
Guest:And people paid hard earned money to go to a honky tonk man main event because they thought he would lose.
Guest:And that is a great heel.
Guest:And he's also a great heel because it was so simple.
Guest:Like all he had to do was come out with his Elvis impersonation and pretend that the crowd liked him.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:You're a beautiful audience.
Guest:And they would boo the shit out of him while he did that.
Guest:And then he'd say, you want to hear my song?
Guest:Boo, no.
Guest:And then he'd sing the song anyway.
Guest:And then he'd dance.
Guest:And then he'd be in a place in the match where he's going to lose.
Guest:And he'd either deliberately get disqualified or he'd cheat to win.
Guest:And they'd boo him out of the building.
Guest:And he'd hit a guy with a guitar.
Guest:This is a great wrestling heel.
Guest:Andy Kaufman would be very proud of the legacy of the Honky Tonk Man.
Marc:Yeah, Andy was my second choice, by the way.
Marc:Oh, great.
Guest:That's perfect.
Guest:And he was a champion.
Guest:He was the intergender wrestling champion.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So that's a great pick, Brendan.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, here's the last one.
Guest:Top of our all-star team.
Guest:This is your designated hitter or your ace pitcher.
Guest:That's really more what this is like.
Guest:This is the starter of the all-star team.
Marc:And so who is your best babyface champion?
Marc:Now, I feel like I'm cheating because I'm going to pick a guy for the second time.
Marc:But Stone Cold Steve Austin was living the dream.
Marc:He beat his boss at his own game.
Marc:And he was the pinnacle of a babyface champion.
Marc:Like to the point where I'm certain there will never be a babyface champion as great as him ever, ever again.
Guest:Well, I mean, I I'm right there with you anytime you pick Stone Cold, just because I do think he's among he and the character of Mr. McMahon, Vince McMahon on TV are the two greatest characters in the history of wrestling.
Guest:I fully agree with that.
Guest:And so you can easily move Stone Cold into any category and be like, yeah, he's he's the guy.
Guest:And I think as a here's my only hang up with him as a baby face champion.
Guest:He is.
Guest:Don't get me wrong.
Guest:You're absolutely right that he is.
Guest:He just did not play a baby face like he was as big a rule breaker as the Hulk Hogan you're talking about.
Guest:He didn't care what you thought of him.
Guest:He didn't want to be cheered.
Guest:He was not a hero.
Guest:He was just a redneck who drank beer and wanted to fight for a living and get paid.
Guest:And if you stood in his way from doing that, he would kill you.
Guest:And it made him want to fight his boss and live the dream of every American who didn't like their boss.
Guest:So totally works.
Guest:But as like the quintessential baby face champion, I couldn't get there with him.
Guest:And I picked someone who you picked elsewhere.
Marc:Oh, interesting.
Marc:Who do you have?
Marc:Bret Hart.
Marc:Bret Hart.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:He wasn't.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:It was a long time coming for him to be champ.
Guest:It was a long time coming.
Guest:And then he had three title reigns.
Guest:And here's the thing.
Guest:He was the guy Vince kept going to when he had no other answers.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Hulkamania left.
Guest:And so no Hulkamania.
Guest:You go to Bret Hart.
Guest:Then they moved the title onto Yokozuna as a heel, and they thought they'd transition it to Lex Luger, who is going to be the new Hulk Hogan.
Guest:Red, white, and blue American babyface.
Guest:It didn't work.
Guest:What did they do?
Guest:Went back to Bret Hart.
Guest:Right.
Guest:OK, now he goes to this guy, Diesel.
Guest:Diesel's going to be my new Hulk Hogan.
Guest:He's seven feet tall.
Guest:And he's that failed.
Guest:Who do you go back to?
Guest:Bret Hart.
Guest:And every time he went back to Bret Hart, the business stabilized.
Guest:It was fine.
Guest:Bret was...
Guest:And in fact, at a period of time where stuff was getting really bad for WWF at the time, like money-wise and scandal-wise, steroids, and there was sexual abuse scandals and all this stuff, Bret Hart was a...
Guest:Clean cut guy you could look up to.
Guest:They were selling out arenas all around the world with him.
Guest:Even when the American business was doing poorly, he was selling out tours of India, tours of Germany.
Guest:Everybody treated this guy like a hero.
Guest:And you know why?
Guest:He believed he was one.
Guest:Right.
Guest:which ultimately led to his downfall, where he, as a person, as a human being, would not allow himself to lose the belt in his home country to a guy he did not respect.
Guest:His downfall was that he believed in himself too much as a babyface.
Guest:And I just I can't deny that he was right.
Guest:He was the best baby face.
Guest:And unfortunately, it ended in tragedy for him.
Guest:But but yeah, Bret Hart would be my pick at the All-Star team, which I think is great that the best baby face champions for the two of us are Bret Hart and Stone Cold.
Guest:who had a legendary rivalry, and they both respected each other in real life very, very much.
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Guest:That's a great pick for this.
Guest:And so let's list our all-star teams here.
Guest:You've got Bret Hart and Stone Cold.
Guest:You've got the Honky Tonk Man and Hulk Hogan.
Guest:I love that.
Guest:You got Monomi Toyota and China.
Guest:The Road Warriors stand on their own.
Guest:Mick Foley stands on his own.
Guest:You got Rey Mysterio Jr.
Guest:and Shawn Michaels.
Guest:Bryan Danielson.
Guest:And once again, Bret Hart.
Guest:And then The Rock.
Guest:And once again, Stone Cold.
Guest:So some really, this is a solid, solid list of pro wrestlers.
Guest:And anybody listening to this would be well served in going watching any match by any of these people.
Guest:You would not be wasting your time.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, let's wrap this up with a couple of quick things.
Guest:I have a note here from one of our listeners.
Guest:Sam wrote in saying this, I guess, in relation to us doing an episode where he talked about the premiere of Monday Night Raw and the premiere of WCW Nitro.
Guest:He said, what about talking about the premiere of SmackDown?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Big Show was chokeslammed through the ring by The Undertaker, which was epic.
Guest:Teenage me lost my shit.
Guest:Uh, plus I think the short lived union debuted there, Ken Shamrock, Mick Foley, and two others.
Guest:Uh, and he says, thanks for the show guys.
Guest:And, and we thank you for listening, but I want to say this to Sam and I knew it when I saw this, but I did look it up just to verify, make sure this is a bit of Mandela effect in action.
Guest:And I think the reason why is because in the opening of SmackDown, like the opening theme where they show clips and stuff, they show the big show getting chokeslammed through the ring by The Undertaker in that montage.
Guest:But it actually happened on a Monday Night Raw, June 7th, 1999, which was also where this thing happened, this union debuting.
Guest:No way.
Guest:It was a Monday Night Raw that you are morphing into the premiere of SmackDown because on the first episode of SmackDown, you could see that happening in the title.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So, Sam, I hope I helped correct the record for you there.
Guest:And yes, maybe someday we will do the premiere of SmackDown.
Guest:I don't remember it at all.
Guest:So it would be a new to me type of feeling.
Marc:Very cool.
Marc:Thank you, Sam.
Guest:The other thing that somebody sent in was the cat mascot at the first Nitro was Wildcat Willie.
Guest:That was something I pointed out seeing in the crowd at the Mall of America.
Guest:Yeah, there was a cat walking around.
Guest:And this person says that that was a mascot called Wildcat Willie or WCW.
Guest:Get it.
Guest:and it says he was used for years for the live tapings in orlando and other tapings that was where they would go to the disney studios and tape like 20 shows in a row and now that this person brings this up i do remember kind of they would do a wide shot and yes you would see a mascot in the crowd like pumping people up he was never really on camera be identified so funny um but yeah that was wildcat willie
Marc:So wait, there was never a time where Wildcat Willie would come into the ring and someone would body slam him?
Marc:No.
Marc:Never?
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I don't think so.
Guest:If anybody has a memory of that, they maybe watch more WCW than I did.
Guest:I don't have any memory of the cat getting body slammed.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:That's like Chekhov's mascot.
Marc:How do you not debut a cat and not have that cat eventually get slammed through the ropes?
I don't know.
Guest:Well, or more of Chekhov's mascot is if you have a mascot character walking around at some point, a heel wrestler better attack someone by using the cat costume.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, you know, like or or vice versa.
Guest:It's like the heel comes out and the hero who he's been running from, he has snuck into the ring because he's Wildcat Willie.
Guest:Like this is a no brainer.
Marc:How would that happen?
Marc:Crazy.
Guest:You know, somebody is going to write in and tell us it absolutely didn't happen.
Marc:They better.
Guest:Because it's so obvious that it didn't happen.
Marc:I'm actually mad that it didn't happen.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It would not be beyond WCW to miss the obvious thing right in front of them.
Guest:Uh, okay.
Guest:Uh, real quick.
Guest:Do you have something that qualified for the best thing you saw?
Guest:It could be in the last two weeks of wrestling.
Guest:Cause we didn't talk about last week.
Marc:Oh, I do.
Marc:Uh, honestly, the best thing I saw that in the past couple of weeks, probably this year.
Marc:And I'm going to say probably my entire life happened on AEW's rampage, uh, from a couple of weeks back.
Marc:Anthony Bowens from The Acclaimed, he's in the ring and he's responding to a woman who's claiming he's into her.
Marc:And he comes out in front of a live audience.
Marc:He tells her, I'm gay.
Marc:And the crowd chants, he's gay.
Marc:In the most positive of ways that I honestly, it honestly gets me a little choked up thinking about it.
Guest:I want to point out, even before they started chanting, he's gay, they popped like someone just won the championship.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yes, they did.
Marc:Like erupted in applause.
Marc:I mean, man, that warmed my cold heart, man.
Marc:Like if that doesn't give you hope that people can change and that –
Marc:That people can be accepted.
Marc:I mean, goddamn, I get a little choked up when I just think about it, honestly.
Marc:I couldn't have dreamed that that would happen 10 years ago.
Marc:Like, this was such a cool moment.
Marc:It's up there with fucking Hogan body slamming Andre, honestly, for me.
Marc:Like, that is a huge moment for me.
Guest:Well, I would, I mean, there's nothing on my end that can top that.
Guest:And I agree with you.
Guest:And you know why it was so awesome?
Guest:It was like one of the main things that I had to kind of deal with myself as a wrestling fan when I was a kid watching it, knowing that they so openly traded in homophobia.
Guest:And like, you know, if there was ever a wrestler who was effeminate or sissy, that was a heel move, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They were wrestlers.
Guest:They encouraged the crowd to chant slurs toward them.
Guest:And yeah, it was totally negative.
Guest:And that wasn't ancient history.
Guest:Like I'm listening to the Brian and Vinny show right now.
Guest:Every week they've been going through this NWA TNA recaps from like 21 years ago.
Guest:That was like a...
Guest:what has now become Impact Wrestling, but it started out 20 years ago with basically Jeff Jarrett at the helm.
Guest:And they had a tag team that was called, like, the Rainbow Express or something, and they were total heels only for being gay.
Guest:Like, they don't act like heels.
Guest:They don't do anything objectionable.
Guest:They were just...
Guest:gay people, and so they would get booed.
Guest:And, like, you, like, well, you know, we've brought this up before, that when you go to the AEW events, they have, like, a statement that says, like, we won't tolerate that if you do that to any wrestlers or people in the crowd.
Guest:Like, we don't, you'll be kicked out of the building.
Guest:And, like,
Guest:Man, that then wound up... Like, that's all cool, well and good, and it can just stay in that level.
Guest:That's fine.
Guest:But the fact that it moved over onto the TV show where somebody actually expressed who they are.
Guest:He's wearing, you know, pride gear.
Guest:He says to her, he's like, I guess you haven't seen my gear.
Guest:But, like, lady, look at me.
Guest:I'm gay.
Guest:And the crowd's just like, boom, pop, cheered.
Guest:He's gay.
Guest:He's gay.
Guest:There's smiles on all their faces and, like...
Guest:Billy Gunn is hugging the guy in the ring, and his partner is jumping up and down.
Guest:It really was one of the great moments.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:Well, I'm glad we both had a chance to talk about that, even though it was two weeks ago.
Guest:I will put the clip in the episode description.
Guest:And if you want to send us anything, whether it's your own all-star teams, maybe it's all-stars or something else, all-stars of literature, the all-star movie selection, send us your ideas for the all-star teams because the all-star game is next week in Major League Baseball.
Guest:I will be watching mostly for the Home Run Derby.
Guest:And we can recap that when we join you next week.
Guest:This is The Friday Show.
Guest:I am Brendan, and that's Chris.
Peace!