BONUS Marc on Movies (with Kit!) - Suspiria

00:02:29Guest:And it's called Gialo because they're, you know, a lot like or often inspired by the paperback crime novels that were so popular in Italy that always came with a bright yellow paperback binding.

00:02:42Guest:Really?

00:02:43Guest:And then like a sordid illustration on the cover.

00:02:46Guest:Yeah, so they're called yellow films because they're based on the yellow books.

00:02:50Marc:Oh, wow.

00:02:51Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:02:51Marc:So it's a whole genre of movie.

00:02:52Guest:Yeah, it's a whole genre.

00:02:53Marc:Who are some of the other people, the directors?

00:02:55Guest:Oh, God, I don't know, man.

00:02:58Marc:What other movies have you seen of that mode?

00:03:02Guest:Don't Look Now is kind of an American Jello film.

00:03:06Marc:Oh, really?

00:03:06Marc:Yeah.

00:03:07Guest:Yeah.

00:03:07Guest:The one with Donald Sutherland and the little raincoat person.

00:03:11Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:03:11Marc:Yeah.

00:03:13Marc:OK.

00:03:13Guest:I haven't seen that many Jello films because I'm just not like a huge slasher kind of person typically.

00:03:23Marc:So, yeah.

00:03:24Marc:So they all involve a lot of that blood.

00:03:26Guest:They're all, like, suspenseful.

00:03:30Guest:They've all got really creative, really gory deaths.

00:03:34Marc:Yeah.

00:03:34Guest:Yeah.

00:03:35Marc:That don't quite look real, but they have an effect.

00:03:38Guest:Yeah.

00:03:39Marc:Yeah.

00:03:39Marc:Well, when I watch a movie, like, right away, like, I knew it was not...

00:03:45Marc:I knew it was something unto itself.

00:03:47Marc:Do you know what I mean?

00:03:49Marc:I guess in the back of my mind, I knew that Argento was sort of a master of this thing.

00:03:54Guest:Yeah.

00:03:55Marc:But I think I always associated with B-movies or Pulp or... No, Lil' Pulp, yeah.

00:04:00Marc:Or one of those Grindhouse-y movies.

00:04:02Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:03Marc:But he was really the inspiration of that.

00:04:08Marc:So he transcended the category because it didn't really exist.

00:04:11Marc:Maybe they were called these yellow movies.

00:04:13Guest:Yeah.

00:04:14Guest:He did one of the very first like really, really big, really well done giallo films, which was the bird with the crystal plumage.

00:04:23Marc:Have you seen that or heard of that?

00:04:24Marc:Why would I have seen it?

00:04:25Guest:Okay, so that was like his first big hit.

00:04:27Guest:Have you seen it?

00:04:29Guest:I haven't seen all of it, sadly.

00:04:31Guest:I need to catch up.

00:04:32Marc:We have to do a whole sub-series on the yellow movies.

00:04:36Guest:Are you into that?

00:04:37Marc:No.

00:04:38Guest:Okay, why then?

00:04:39Guest:Why do you have experiences that you know you're not going to enjoy?

00:04:43Guest:I don't understand this about you.

00:04:45Marc:I have to have experiences that I know because I don't not know.

00:04:49Guest:Does it make you appreciate good experiences to have the bad experiences?

00:04:53Marc:I always enter them assuming that I don't want to have them or that it seems like a hassle or a waste of time.

00:05:01Marc:But that has no relationship to my experience.

00:05:04Marc:Most of the time, I enjoy doing those things.

00:05:06Guest:Oh, okay.

00:05:07Marc:So it's not a matter of me doing things I don't enjoy.

00:05:10Marc:I don't know.

00:05:11Guest:I think maybe I overinterpret my understanding of how aggravated you are when you watch a movie.

00:05:22Guest:Oh.

00:05:22Guest:Because of your physical and vocal reactions to the film.

00:05:26Marc:Do I?

00:05:26Marc:Yeah.

00:05:27Marc:I thought I did all right during Suspiria.

00:05:30Guest:No, you did.

00:05:30Guest:You did.

00:05:31Guest:You did.

00:05:31Guest:A lot of others you don't.

00:05:33Marc:Like what?

00:05:34Marc:Oh, the other day when we watched Under the Skin.

00:05:37Guest:I don't want to name names, but yeah, that one.

00:05:40Marc:But that's a horror movie.

00:05:41Marc:We should probably talk about that like a horror movie, but we don't have to do it now.

00:05:44Marc:But it's like you said it was going to be science fiction.

00:05:47Marc:It struck me as more horror.

00:05:49Marc:But I guess there's a crossover.

00:05:51Guest:It has a heavily sci-fi source material, but they really, really strip that source material away in making the movie.

00:06:00Guest:So I guess the movie is more horror.

00:06:01Marc:I thought it was kind of interesting because it was kind of minimalistic and not unlike this Suspiria movie, which happened in environments within this dance academy in Germany that were ridiculous.

00:06:16Marc:Like, they couldn't be real environments.

00:06:19Marc:But I knew right away...

00:06:21Marc:That it was this highly stylized vision.

00:06:24Marc:And I also knew right away, almost from the first few seconds of the movie, that it was a horror movie.

00:06:30Marc:Not because I knew it was Dargi Argento and I knew that was what I was in for.

00:06:35Marc:But the way he cuts film, the way, like, there was an immediate sense...

00:06:41Marc:Of suspense, which I guess is sort of a horror thing.

00:06:44Marc:Like when you see, you know, you have that shot, it's sort of an upshot of the haunted place.

00:06:49Guest:Yeah, which is a facade, but it's a facade based on a real building that's based on some sort of embassy somewhere in Europe.

00:06:58Marc:Right, but just the angle of it and her standing in front of it, it's like you see it in all the horror movies.

00:07:04Guest:The upward angle.

00:07:05Marc:Right.

00:07:05Marc:And the victim or the hero standing in front of this menacing building.

00:07:12Guest:Is that what you notice about it?

00:07:13Guest:Is like her as the little victim?

00:07:15Marc:Well, I just knew that that was her.

00:07:18Marc:The trial of her was going to take place in that place.

00:07:23Marc:It's like the exorcist with what's his name standing out in front?

00:07:26Guest:Max von Sydow.

00:07:28Marc:Max von Sydow.

00:07:29Guest:Yeah, it's good.

00:07:30Marc:Right?

00:07:30Marc:And it also happened in that movie that I just watched.

00:07:33Marc:What did I watch?

00:07:34Marc:That one that's based on an old movie or an old book.

00:07:37Marc:It was some Haunted Mansion one.

00:07:39Marc:It was a black and white one that I just watched, and I can't remember anybody who was in it now.

00:07:46Guest:Was it The Haunting of Hill House?

00:07:48Guest:Yeah.

00:07:48Marc:Was that what it was?

00:07:49Guest:I don't know.

00:07:50Marc:Oh.

00:07:50Marc:I don't know.

00:07:52Guest:I remember we had this.

00:07:53Marc:They had made several different versions of it, we said.

00:07:55Guest:Yeah.

00:07:56Guest:We had this conversation while I was like at a gas station pumping gas, so I was somewhat distracted.

00:08:03Marc:Oh, it was about a haunted house.

00:08:05Marc:Yeah, I remember you saying that.

00:08:07Marc:And it was like a guy who was studying the, what do you call it, the existence of ghosts?

00:08:14Marc:What is that called when somebody studies haunted houses?

00:08:16Guest:Paranormal investigator?

00:08:17Marc:Yeah, paranormal investigator had invited a couple of people, these two women and this guy.

00:08:22Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:08:23Guest:I think that that sounds like the haunting.

00:08:25Guest:Yeah, the haunting.

00:08:26Guest:The haunting.

00:08:27Marc:Okay.

00:08:28Guest:Was this, did you see the 90s haunting?

00:08:30Guest:No, no, no.

00:08:30Guest:No, a very old haunting.

00:08:31Marc:I saw black and white haunting, but the point is.

00:08:33Guest:Yeah, so that's based on The Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson, which is like the mother of all haunted house books.

00:08:39Marc:Right, right.

00:08:40Marc:And this was, why am I, I'm forgetting who the lead was.

00:08:43Marc:He was like, it's an old actor.

00:08:45Guest:Is it Vincent Price?

00:08:45Marc:No, no.

00:08:47Guest:I haven't seen this.

00:08:48Marc:Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:08:49Marc:Russ Tamblyn, Richard Johnson.

00:08:52Guest:Oh, Russ Tamblyn.

00:08:54Marc:Yeah, Julie Harris.

00:08:54Marc:Is he the lead?

00:08:56Guest:Yes.

00:08:56Guest:I love Russ Tamblyn.

00:08:57Marc:Yes.

00:08:59Guest:He's in Twin Peaks.

00:09:00Marc:Claire Bloom.

00:09:01Marc:Who is Claire Bloom?

00:09:01Marc:She must have been a kid.

00:09:02Marc:Yeah, Russ Tamblyn and Amber Tamblyn, his daughter married to David Cross.

00:09:05Guest:Yeah, and he was in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, which is ridiculous.

00:09:08Marc:Yeah.

00:09:09Marc:Yeah, and he played the swinging young guy that just didn't believe the ghost thing.

00:09:14Guest:Oh, okay.

00:09:14Guest:I buy that.

00:09:15Guest:He had that cute button nose that does not work on most men but works on Russ Tamblyn.

00:09:20Marc:Yeah, and I watched it because I was trying to get down with the horror, right?

00:09:25Guest:That's a good one to watch, I say, having not seen it.

00:09:28Marc:But the point is that...

00:09:30Marc:The house is the star.

00:09:34Guest:Yeah, the house is the character.

00:09:36Marc:Right.

00:09:36Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:09:36Marc:And that seems to be a thing.

00:09:38Marc:Mm-hmm, yes.

00:09:38Marc:And if it's not the character, it is where the undertaking will take place.

00:09:45Guest:Yes, exactly.

00:09:45Marc:You know, and it's set up that way.

00:09:47Marc:Like, I don't I wouldn't say that in The Exorcist that the house was the character.

00:09:51Marc:But whatever was going to happen, you know, was going to happen in that house.

00:09:54Guest:Yeah.

00:09:55Guest:The house is the heart of the story.

00:09:56Guest:Like, do you remember in the Poltergeist movie where the little old lady takes off her glasses and she goes, this house has many hearts.

00:10:07Marc:Now you got to remember that.

00:10:08Marc:But that's not the one Drew Barrymore is in.

00:10:09Marc:Right.

00:10:10Marc:She was in Firestarter.

00:10:11Guest:Yeah.

00:10:12Guest:Yeah, she was in it.

00:10:13Marc:But the girl in Poltergeist was a little blonde girl.

00:10:15Guest:Yeah, she passed away tragically, I think, in her childhood.

00:10:18Marc:And Craig T. Nelson was in it, right?

00:10:20Guest:Yeah, that's one of my favorite movies.

00:10:22Marc:Craig T. Nelson.

00:10:22Guest:Suspiria and Poltergeist are both two of my favorite movies, yeah.

00:10:25Marc:Okay, so we enter this thing, and right away there's this jacked color.

00:10:30Guest:Yes.

00:10:31Marc:I don't know what you call that type of color.

00:10:33Guest:They actually, so the DP, and I do not know his name and I'm sorry about that, but the DP and Dario Argento.

00:10:40Marc:I can magically find that.

00:10:41Guest:Oh, with the internet?

00:10:43Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:10:44Guest:You should give your guests a laptop too so they can do this at the same time as you.

00:10:49Guest:Like you're over there with access.

00:10:51Marc:Oh, I mean, you have a phone.

00:10:52Guest:I do have a phone.

00:10:53Marc:But hold on.

00:10:54Marc:I'm not like, hold on.

00:10:55Guest:I was secretly giving you a head start so you could push.

00:10:58Marc:Luciano Tavoli.

00:10:59Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:11:00Guest:Okay.

00:11:00Guest:So he and Dario Argento.

00:11:01Marc:Yeah.

00:11:02Guest:Luciano Tavoli.

00:11:03Guest:Yeah.

00:11:03Guest:He and Dario Argento decided that they wanted to have the palette for this film be primary colors.

00:11:12Guest:The reason for that was the inspiration was Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, the Walt Disney movie.

00:11:16Guest:Yeah.

00:11:17Marc:The cartoon.

00:11:19Guest:The super amped up red and blue and yellow colors in that cartoon.

00:11:24Guest:And so they found one of the last studios in the world that was still printing on like three color Technicolor to make this movie.

00:11:35Marc:Really?

00:11:36Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:37Marc:That's so wild because, like, you notice it right away.

00:11:41Marc:But I also, for some reason, it reminded me of Brian De Palma movies.

00:11:47Guest:Oh, yeah?

00:11:48Marc:Yeah.

00:11:48Marc:I can see that.

00:11:50Marc:Dressed to Kill and some of the earlier Brian De Palma movies.

00:11:53Guest:Even the ending scene in Scarface.

00:11:56Marc:Yeah, like it's jacked.

00:11:57Guest:The colors are jacked.

00:11:59Guest:Yeah, it's jacked.

00:11:59Marc:But because of it, but there was a different effect going on here.

00:12:03Marc:Like, at some point during the movie, because you walk into this environment, which is this dance school.

00:12:09Guest:Yeah.

00:12:10Marc:And all the students live there.

00:12:11Marc:And it opens with, you know, a woman running away.

00:12:14Marc:Yeah.

00:12:15Marc:And then we see her get, you know, murdered by apparently a demon of some sort.

00:12:22Guest:Yeah.

00:12:22Marc:A hairy arm.

00:12:23Guest:With hair and claws, yeah.

00:12:25Marc:Through a window.

00:12:26Marc:Right away, you're like, am I going to see that whole monster?

00:12:29Marc:Yeah.

00:12:29Guest:I love that scene where she's holding up the lamp to the dark window.

00:12:33Guest:It's such a good.

00:12:33Marc:And then you see the eyes.

00:12:34Guest:And then you see the eyes.

00:12:35Guest:Yeah.

00:12:36Marc:But again, with these horror movies like the last one we watched, it's just sort of like the realism of this time.

00:12:42Marc:It wasn't it.

00:12:44Marc:You needed the effect.

00:12:45Marc:Yeah.

00:12:45Marc:It wasn't the realism.

00:12:46Marc:Yeah.

00:12:47Marc:Right.

00:12:48Marc:What was the first horror movie we watched?

00:12:49Guest:The first one we watched was The Company of Wolves.

00:12:51Marc:Right.

00:12:51Guest:Yeah.

00:12:52Marc:Well, there was a lot of that.

00:12:53Marc:There was a lot of it's OK to not be realistic because you want the effect.

00:12:58Marc:And there was something disarming and endearing about the attempt at like or maybe the not attempt at just making it effective.

00:13:08Yeah.

00:13:08Marc:Right?

00:13:08Guest:Yes.

00:13:09Marc:Because just to see those dumb eyes in the window when she's holding the light up, the moment that it happens, you're like, oh, my God.

00:13:14Marc:But then you're like, what is that?

00:13:16Guest:Right.

00:13:17Guest:Yeah.

00:13:17Marc:But that's all right.

00:13:18Marc:I guess that's the fun.

00:13:19Guest:It's fun.

00:13:20Guest:Exactly.

00:13:21Marc:You don't want to be too fucking creepy.

00:13:23Marc:Exactly.

00:13:24Marc:Because then you'll never forget it.

00:13:26Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:13:26Marc:But some people like that, too.

00:13:28Guest:Yeah, but the campiness is fun.

00:13:30Guest:It's, you know.

00:13:31Marc:Yeah.

00:13:32Marc:But I also noticed right away that this was an artist with a vision.

00:13:38Marc:Yeah.

00:13:38Marc:That Argento was, that the entire interiors of the place, everything was sort of, the set direction was very elaborate and peculiar.

00:13:48Marc:It didn't seem like any of the classes were necessarily really classes.

00:13:52Marc:Right.

00:13:53Marc:Like none of the place, the place did not look like a dance studio.

00:13:56Marc:Academy, yeah.

00:13:58Marc:And also there were all these hallways and lit hallways.

00:14:03Marc:There was no reason for any of it to be lit like that in a reality frame, but he was trying to have an effect.

00:14:10Guest:The colors are illuminated from within, like the lights behind the red curtains and the lights behind the red and yellow and blue stained glass windows.

00:14:19Marc:But a lot of it looked like sets, and a lot of it looked like what was to become music videos later, right?

00:14:26Marc:Like there was definitely, I can definitely see the impact of the way he shot this movie in the colors on later movies.

00:14:34Marc:Is that possible?

00:14:35Guest:I think definitely it's possible.

00:14:36Guest:It was, you know, a lot of movies were inspired by Suspiria.

00:14:41Marc:But like, but the movies at that time, like I'm looking at the highest grossing films in, well, this is the U.S.

00:14:47Marc:in 1977.

00:14:48Marc:Star Wars.

00:14:49Marc:Star Wars, Smoking the Bandit.

00:14:51Guest:I knew it was Star Wars and Smokey and the Bandit.

00:14:53Guest:I don't know why I knew that.

00:14:54Marc:Close Encounters.

00:14:55Marc:Oh, really?

00:14:56Marc:Saturday Night Fever.

00:14:58Marc:The Goodbye Girl.

00:14:59Marc:Richard Dreyfuss.

00:15:00Marc:A Bridge Too Far, which I don't remember.

00:15:02Marc:That must have been a remake, right?

00:15:04Marc:Richard Dreyfuss was in... Oh, no.

00:15:05Marc:Bridge Too Far is a big war movie.

00:15:07Marc:What?

00:15:08Guest:Richard Dreyfuss had a good year.

00:15:09Marc:that's true yeah yeah uh the deep the deep with the giant eel yeah um who was that uh was that early um oh no peter yates directed that like i don't remember that being very good uh the spy who loved me james bond i love that song oh god

00:15:30Marc:That's John Denver and George Burns.

00:15:34Marc:And John Denver's like the normal guy.

00:15:36Marc:And God's a little old man.

00:15:38Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:15:39Guest:I haven't seen all of that, but I remember a little bit of that.

00:15:42Marc:Yeah.

00:15:42Marc:And Annie Hall.

00:15:43Guest:Yeah.

00:15:43Guest:Oh, Annie Hall.

00:15:44Marc:So all of those movies.

00:15:46Guest:Actually, Jessica Harper turned down a role in Annie Hall to do this.

00:15:51Marc:I wonder how she feels about that.

00:15:52Guest:I hope she feels good about it, especially now.

00:15:56Marc:Yeah.

00:15:57Marc:Well, she was great in Suspiria.

00:16:02Marc:Yeah.

00:16:02Marc:And I knew I'd recognized her because I just watched Safe, the Todd Haynes movie.

00:16:07Marc:And she has a small part in that as one of the people in a group therapy circle.

00:16:11Guest:Oh, okay.

00:16:12Marc:But what else did she do, though?

00:16:13Marc:She looked so familiar to me.

00:16:15Guest:She did a lot when she was in her youth.

00:16:17Marc:Is that what it was?

00:16:19Marc:Because like I kind of like I remember her.

00:16:21Marc:Hold on a minute.

00:16:23Marc:Oh, a few.

00:16:23Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:16:24Marc:She was in Stardust Memories.

00:16:26Guest:I haven't seen Stardust Memories.

00:16:27Marc:She was in another Woody Allen movie that he must have liked her.

00:16:31Guest:He wanted her.

00:16:32Guest:Oh, he wasn't.

00:16:34Guest:She wasn't a Brian De Palma.

00:16:35Guest:That's right.

00:16:37Marc:Which one?

00:16:38Guest:Phantom of the Paradise.

00:16:40Yeah.

00:16:40Marc:See, I wonder how much... That's 1974, so that's before Suspiria.

00:16:46Marc:So maybe De Palma was fucking with this color thing.

00:16:49Marc:Maybe it was parallel creativity, or maybe it inspired Argento.

00:16:56Marc:Who knows?

00:16:56Guest:It definitely could have.

00:16:57Marc:Anyway, but what I thought was interesting is the story itself is really a witch coven story.

00:17:02Guest:Yeah, it's a fairy tale a little bit.

00:17:05Marc:Would you call that a fairy tale?

00:17:06Marc:Because it reminds me of...

00:17:08Marc:Of Rosemary's Baby.

00:17:09Guest:Yeah, I love Rosemary's Baby.

00:17:11Marc:I'd watch that again.

00:17:12Guest:The only reason that I haven't suggested it is that I know we've both seen it multiple times, but I would totally fucking watch that again.

00:17:18Guest:It's one of my favorites.

00:17:19Marc:What's wrong with its eyes?

00:17:24Marc:Oh, yeah, it's a good time to tell you that's the devil's child.

00:17:30Guest:Damien.

00:17:32Guest:Yeah.

00:17:32Guest:She's so good in that.

00:17:34Marc:Oh, it's so rough to see her losing weight.

00:17:36Marc:She's a genius in that.

00:17:37Guest:Oh, my God.

00:17:38Guest:All of the pregnancy stuff in that is so stomach-churning for me.

00:17:42Guest:I hate that part.

00:17:44Guest:I hate that part.

00:17:45Guest:It's so hard to watch.

00:17:46Guest:You're just like, oh, make it fucking stop.

00:17:48Marc:Old Ralph Bellamy is the doctor.

00:17:50Marc:He's great.

00:17:51Guest:What's-her-face is the little old witch.

00:17:53Guest:She's my favorite.

00:17:54Marc:Ruth Gordon?

00:17:54Marc:Yeah, Ruth Gordon.

00:17:54Marc:Oh, yeah, she's great.

00:17:55Marc:Oh, it's okay, honey.

00:17:57Marc:We'll make you another drink.

00:17:59Marc:I love Ruth Gordon, yeah.

00:18:00Marc:But anyway, so the movie in Suspiria, I found it, like, very early on to be, like, I realized that maybe it was some sort of reference to German expressionism.

00:18:11Guest:Cool, yeah.

00:18:12Marc:And I brought that up.

00:18:13Marc:And there's not that many German expressionistic movies.

00:18:16Guest:Uh-huh.

00:18:16Marc:But the way they used light and shadow, although it was black and white, I thought it was some sort of homage because it takes place in Germany.

00:18:24Marc:Why?

00:18:24Marc:No reason.

00:18:25Guest:Well, yeah, no, there is a reason.

00:18:27Guest:So but yeah, I do think Cabinet of Dr. Caligari was one of his influences.

00:18:32Marc:Oh, really?

00:18:32Marc:Yeah.

00:18:32Marc:So you're on the money.

00:18:33Guest:Right.

00:18:33Guest:OK.

00:18:33Guest:Yeah.

00:18:34Guest:But no.

00:18:35Guest:So before he made this, he was traveling Europe a lot and he just got obsessed with a lot of weird ideas, among them some occult philosophies, among them the idea of there being a sacred triangle at the border between Germany, Switzerland and France.

00:18:55Guest:Oh, in occult?

00:18:56Guest:Kind of, yeah, like a sacred occult triangle in that in that three country border area.

00:19:02Guest:He got into that idea.

00:19:03Guest:He got into the British poet Thomas De Quincey, who wrote a poem called Suspirorum, which has a particular section called The Three Mothers, which posits the idea that like there are three fates, you know, there are also three ladies of sorrow.

00:19:25Guest:And they're Mater Suspirorum, the Mother of Sighs, Mater Tenebre, the Mother of Darkness, and Mater Lacrimosum, the Mother of Tears.

00:19:37Guest:And so that's the trilogy of Dario Argento movies.

00:19:40Guest:One of them is about each of those three high witches, the Mother of Sighs, Suspiria, Mother of Darkness.

00:19:47Guest:That's the next movie that he did in 80 or 81, I think, Inferno.

00:19:51Guest:And then he did a bad one in the 2000s.

00:19:53Marc:What made it bad?

00:19:55Guest:You know, he got godfathered.

00:19:58Guest:He cast his daughter, and she just wasn't that great.

00:20:02Guest:It was just lacking some of the color schemes of the earlier ones.

00:20:07Guest:It had like 2007 sensibilities.

00:20:09Guest:It was just a bad time.

00:20:10Guest:A lot of things conspired.

00:20:12Marc:But this one, you don't really know that it's a witch movie per se for quite some time.

00:20:18Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:20:19Marc:At first it starts out to be some sort of horrendous murder mystery.

00:20:22Marc:Right, right.

00:20:23Marc:And you start suspecting the weird looking guy, which is...

00:20:28Marc:Kind of, I don't know what you would call that.

00:20:30Marc:It's not racist, but it's certainly, what would you call that?

00:20:34Marc:You know, why, well, you know, you just assume that the giant.

00:20:38Guest:Yeah.

00:20:39Marc:He was more than odd.

00:20:40Marc:He looked like he had acromegaly.

00:20:41Marc:His name is Giuseppe Transochi.

00:20:44Marc:And you're sort of like, well, that guy's obviously the killer.

00:20:48Marc:Look at him.

00:20:48Marc:He's a monster.

00:20:49Marc:Yeah.

00:20:49Guest:Yeah.

00:20:50Marc:So you're judging that guy.

00:20:52Marc:Yeah.

00:20:52Marc:And no one seems to be that concerned with solving the murder of the opening scene.

00:20:56Guest:Right.

00:20:57Marc:There's some detectives around asking questions.

00:21:00Marc:And then there's the main woman, the woman, the the what would you call her?

00:21:05Marc:The the the head of the Academy of the Academy, but not the the the witch.

00:21:11Marc:But Madame Blanc.

00:21:13Marc:Madame Blanc, who is like the namesake or something of the Academy, the main woman.

00:21:19Marc:But the head of the Academy, that's Madame Blanc.

00:21:24Marc:Yeah.

00:21:25Marc:But there's like someone who's never there that they keep talking about.

00:21:28Guest:The director.

00:21:29Marc:The director.

00:21:30Guest:Helena Marcos.

00:21:31Guest:But you don't know her name is Helena Marcos, but that's the name of the witch.

00:21:35Guest:Yeah, but the director.

00:21:36Guest:Right.

00:21:36Marc:But the one who played Madame Blanc is actually a fairly famous old actress.

00:21:42Guest:Yeah.

00:21:43Marc:Named Joan Bennett.

00:21:44Guest:Yeah.

00:21:44Marc:Who was in like a million things.

00:21:46Marc:She's great.

00:21:47Marc:She's great in this.

00:21:48Marc:But I love when you have even with like Ralph Bellamy in Rosemary's Baby where you have these these classic actors just show up in these as older people.

00:21:59Marc:It's so it's so nice.

00:22:00Marc:But she was intense, man.

00:22:02Guest:Yeah.

00:22:03Guest:Oh, she was wonderful in it.

00:22:05Guest:Yeah.

00:22:05Guest:One.

00:22:05Guest:And then that final scene where you see her exposed.

00:22:08Guest:She's like, I want that American bitch.

00:22:11Marc:Yeah.

00:22:11Guest:She's great.

00:22:12Guest:Yeah.

00:22:13Marc:But like, remind me again, what was the unfolding?

00:22:15Marc:It's like, so when does it transition from like kind of a murder mystery to where we know that something's up?

00:22:21Guest:I mean, it's a super, super sad.

00:22:23Guest:simple story it's way more visual than than it is plot heavy you know so it's just like simple horror story simple horror story simple fairy tale ish horror story girl goes to dance academy couple deaths happen she starts to feel sick in weird ways and

00:22:42Guest:Sleepy in weird ways.

00:22:44Marc:They send a doctor in.

00:22:45Guest:Yeah.

00:22:46Guest:She starts to become concerned through this series of bad happenings that something's going on.

00:22:52Marc:And then they put her on a special diet.

00:22:55Guest:Right.

00:22:55Guest:And then she learns through just talking to locals that are around town.

00:23:02Guest:There's a historic legend that the Dance Academy was founded by a witch or by a coven of witches.

00:23:08Marc:Like 100 years ago.

00:23:09Guest:Yeah, like hundreds of years ago.

00:23:11Guest:And the witch was named Helena Marcos.

00:23:13Guest:And then this old professor tells her the full story about the three mothers.

00:23:18Guest:Yeah.

00:23:20Guest:And kind of, you know, describes the, you know, how to tell if Coven.

00:23:25Guest:And she's like, oh, my dance academy sounds like Coven.

00:23:28Guest:And he goes, yes.

00:23:29Guest:And, you know, then she.

00:23:31Guest:Yeah.

00:23:31Guest:goes back kind of armed with the knowledge that she might be dealing with witches.

00:23:36Guest:She remembers that.

00:23:37Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:23:38Marc:He's the one who tells her, like, this made it a little different than a witch story in that the sort of Hydra idea, that you have this coven of witches, and the main witch, if you get rid of the main witch, they all wither away.

00:23:51Guest:Exactly, yeah.

00:23:52Marc:But, like, I've never seen that before in something other than, like, a sci-fi movie.

00:23:56Guest:You've never seen?

00:23:57Guest:Yeah, no.

00:23:57Marc:Like if you kill the main one, they all kind of fade.

00:24:02Guest:Yeah, that's a thing.

00:24:03Guest:It is?

00:24:04Marc:Yeah.

00:24:04Marc:In witches?

00:24:04Guest:In fantasy.

00:24:06Marc:In vampires, maybe?

00:24:07Guest:Vampires, Dracula, The One Ring.

00:24:10Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:24:11Guest:That kind of shit.

00:24:12Guest:Yeah.

00:24:15Marc:But so she goes back and now she's got to figure it out.

00:24:19Guest:Yeah.

00:24:19Guest:And she remembers that the night she arrived, the girl who ran away and then got killed gruesomely whispered something to her.

00:24:26Guest:And the whole movie, she's been trying to remember what she whispered in this loud storm.

00:24:31Marc:Yeah.

00:24:31Guest:And she remembers something to do with flowers and something to do with iris.

00:24:35Marc:Oh, right.

00:24:35Guest:Blue iris.

00:24:36Guest:And then there's a blue iris.

00:24:38Marc:A secret room.

00:24:39Guest:Yeah, she finds a secret room from a painted flower on the wall.

00:24:43Marc:Yeah.

00:24:43Guest:And she, you know, finds the witch's lair.

00:24:45Marc:But then there's also that time where, what is it, the power goes out and they all got to sleep in the same room?

00:24:50Marc:Yeah.

00:24:51Marc:And then, like, behind some, like, bed sheet, there's, like, you know, this sleeping, you know, wheezing old lady.

00:24:58Guest:Yeah, is that what I sound like?

00:25:00Marc:No.

00:25:01Marc:Oh.

00:25:01Marc:Why would you sound like that?

00:25:02Marc:Because when I snore.

00:25:02Marc:Oh, no, it's different.

00:25:04Marc:You don't wheeze.

00:25:06Marc:It's much more like... Honky.

00:25:08Guest:Honky.

00:25:08Guest:Am I being too loud for the microphone?

00:25:13Marc:And then you go to the other room.

00:25:15Marc:But yeah, but like that's sort of like a weird thing, but I didn't even put it together.

00:25:21Marc:They just show this silhouette of this wheezing prostate prostate figure, you know, in a silhouette.

00:25:31Marc:And one of the girls is like, what is that?

00:25:33Marc:Like, I don't remember what she says, right?

00:25:35Yeah.

00:25:35Guest:Oh, I do.

00:25:36Guest:I've seen it more than you.

00:25:38Guest:She says, Susie, I think that's the director.

00:25:41Marc:Oh, the director.

00:25:41Guest:I think they're lying to us and the director is here.

00:25:43Guest:Right, the director is not here.

00:25:44Guest:Yeah, because one night, like another time, the director slept in the room next to me and she fucking snores like that.

00:25:51Guest:Right.

00:25:53Yeah.

00:25:53Guest:So Susie just starts piecing these pieces together.

00:25:56Guest:Like, why is this girl dead?

00:25:58Guest:Why is the director here when they're telling us she's not here?

00:26:00Marc:And why are they walking the wrong way down the hall when they say they're leaving all the people that are the teachers?

00:26:04Guest:Right, exactly.

00:26:05Guest:If they leave at the end of classes at the evening, why do their footsteps go inside the building?

00:26:11Marc:Right, and then the other girl that told her that, she gets killed.

00:26:14Guest:Yes.

00:26:15Guest:That's a scary one.

00:26:16Guest:That's a big scary scene.

00:26:17Guest:Is that the barbed wire one?

00:26:20Guest:Yeah.

00:26:21Guest:First she gets trapped in the room and he's trying to wiggle the lock open with a knife.

00:26:25Guest:She goes through the window and she falls into the razor wire.

00:26:28Marc:Oof.

00:26:28Guest:Oof.

00:26:29Marc:And then she comes back.

00:26:30Guest:In the final scene with nails in her eyes.

00:26:34Guest:Ooh.

00:26:34Marc:Yeah.

00:26:35Marc:But that was the thing is that when our hero...

00:26:38Marc:What's her name?

00:26:39Marc:Harper?

00:26:39Marc:Jessica?

00:26:40Marc:Is it Jessica Harper?

00:26:41Guest:The character is Susie Banyan.

00:26:42Guest:The actress is Jessica Harper.

00:26:44Marc:Yeah.

00:26:44Marc:Like she, you know, starts to put things together when no one's around.

00:26:47Marc:And she finds the room that's the, what's her name's office?

00:26:54Marc:Not, we don't know about.

00:26:55Guest:Madame Blanc's office.

00:26:56Marc:Madame Blanc's office.

00:26:57Marc:And there's the iris on the wall.

00:26:58Marc:And then there's a secret room and a hallway with more interesting lighting.

00:27:01Marc:Yeah.

00:27:02Marc:And then she sees all the coven, you know, who are people that work in that.

00:27:06Marc:Oh, the weird cleaning lady.

00:27:08Guest:Yeah.

00:27:09Marc:She's one of them.

00:27:10Guest:Yeah, the weird cleaning lady, the creepy little blonde boy.

00:27:13Marc:Yes.

00:27:15Marc:Creepy little blonde boys.

00:27:16Marc:Creepy little boys show up in horror a lot, I think.

00:27:18Guest:They sure do.

00:27:19Marc:So she sees them all, and that's where she overhears, like, that American bitch or whatever.

00:27:25Marc:Yeah.

00:27:25Marc:But then she goes into a deeper chamber and there's the wheezing figure behind a curtain again.

00:27:33Guest:Yeah.

00:27:33Marc:And then she pulls open the curtain and it's the hundreds of years old witch.

00:27:37Marc:Yeah.

00:27:38Marc:Who never died.

00:27:40Marc:And I believe we decided it's Dario Argento.

00:27:43Marc:Oh.

00:27:43Guest:Yes.

00:27:44Guest:Well, Dario... In drag.

00:27:46Guest:So Dario Argento always plays the killer in his movies.

00:27:49Guest:So I think it is Dario Argento in drag.

00:27:52Marc:Yeah.

00:27:52Marc:As the old ancient witch.

00:27:54Marc:The old ancient witch.

00:27:55Marc:And he's like... And he wakes up and he's going to kill her.

00:27:58Marc:But she figures it out.

00:28:00Marc:Yeah.

00:28:01Marc:And then he jumps into another body, which is the dead girl, to freak her out.

00:28:07Guest:Yeah.

00:28:08Guest:Right?

00:28:08Guest:He like summons the dead girl.

00:28:10Marc:Oh, he didn't have to jump into the body.

00:28:11Guest:No, I don't think so.

00:28:13Marc:Oh.

00:28:14Marc:So, right.

00:28:14Marc:So he summons her and brings her back to some sort of life to attack.

00:28:19Marc:And then she gets him.

00:28:22Marc:What does she stab him with again?

00:28:24Guest:She just finds like a knife or something.

00:28:26Guest:But right in the neck.

00:28:27Guest:Right in the neck.

00:28:28Guest:Right.

00:28:28Marc:And then you see the other room, all the other witches are holding their necks.

00:28:31Guest:Yeah, they're, like, choking and gasping for air.

00:28:33Guest:There's, like, wind blowing around them.

00:28:35Marc:Yeah.

00:28:35Guest:Yeah.

00:28:36Guest:And she runs out of there.

00:28:37Marc:Oh.

00:28:38Guest:Yeah.

00:28:39Marc:And that was that.

00:28:40Guest:And that was that.

00:28:41Guest:The place catches on fire and a storm starts again, and she kind of laughs.

00:28:46Marc:And then it ends with her just walking out.

00:28:48Guest:Walking out, yeah.

00:28:49Marc:And that's it.

00:28:50Marc:Man, you just, like, it's so weird, the amount of...

00:28:55Marc:you have to suspend to enjoy it.

00:28:57Marc:But I, in terms of like, you know, what's really happening at the dance academy?

00:29:01Marc:Why are there like only two classes?

00:29:03Marc:And what is everybody doing during the day?

00:29:05Marc:You know what I mean?

00:29:05Marc:It's just kind of wandering around this castle that's lit in all these dramatic, exciting, colorful ways.

00:29:12Guest:Yeah.

00:29:13Marc:You know, and floating about, you know, in this weirdness.

00:29:16Guest:One interesting thing is that Dario Argento and Daria Nicolotti, the other screenwriter, wanted this to be played by juvenile girls, like 10 and 12 year old girls.

00:29:31Guest:That was what they wanted.

00:29:33Guest:But the producers wouldn't allow them to.

00:29:34Guest:They were like appalled by the idea of that kind of gore being done to a 10 or 12 year old character.

00:29:40Guest:They thought audiences wouldn't go for it.

00:29:41Guest:Right.

00:29:42Guest:But Dario and Daria were kind of like a little pissed off about that, I guess.

00:29:47Guest:And so they did everything they could to supplement the feeling of children in the characters.

00:29:53Guest:So like all of the girls have really, I mean, obviously ballerinas have really thin frames.

00:29:59Guest:All of the girls have like big eyes, thin frames.

00:30:01Guest:You'll notice that the script is really childish because they chose not to make any edits to the script to age it up for their aged characters.

00:30:09Guest:Oh.

00:30:10Guest:stuck with the original script that was intended for 10 and 12 year old actresses.

00:30:14Marc:Oh, wow.

00:30:14Marc:So this is like a weirdo movie on a lot of levels.

00:30:17Guest:And they also had the set designer raise the doorknobs on all the doors to a higher level and increase the height of the door frame so that the girls would look smaller when running down hallways.

00:30:29Marc:Oh, so that was, but was the effect to make them seem young?

00:30:34Marc:It just, it kind of worked in a weird way.

00:30:36Guest:It worked in a weird way.

00:30:38Marc:It just twisted the reality of the thing.

00:30:40Guest:Yeah, it's.

00:30:41Marc:But I forgot, what was, like, did, like, here's the part, like, did they need to do human sacrifices or was it just to protect the Coven?

00:30:52Marc:What was the Coven's intentions?

00:30:54Guest:Yeah, the coven's intention as described by the professor is just power, acquisition of wealth and power and getting that by doing evil, malicious deeds to others.

00:31:09Guest:So we don't – it's vague.

00:31:11Guest:It's super vague.

00:31:12Marc:But they're just killing these wannabe dancers.

00:31:14Guest:We don't know.

00:31:15Guest:It's presumed that some of them are sacrifices.

00:31:19Guest:Maybe some of them figured out what was going on and then needed to be got rid of.

00:31:23Marc:But they have power over the town because of the doctor.

00:31:26Guest:Yeah.

00:31:26Marc:Like, you know, it's one of those things where there's a lot more people involved.

00:31:30Guest:Yeah.

00:31:30Marc:Because, like, the cops.

00:31:32Marc:Uh-huh.

00:31:32Marc:Right?

00:31:32Guest:Yeah.

00:31:33Guest:They have a lot of power.

00:31:34Guest:Right.

00:31:34Guest:So, you know, even if people aren't in their pocket, they're able to turn people away.

00:31:38Marc:So it's more just killing people that were getting hip to it.

00:31:41Guest:Yeah.

00:31:41Guest:Exactly.

00:31:42Marc:Yeah.

00:31:42Guest:Exactly.

00:31:42Guest:The remake gets a little bit more precise with that kind of thing.

00:31:47Guest:Oh.

00:31:47Marc:Same story.

00:31:48Guest:I love – no, different story.

00:31:50Guest:Very different.

00:31:51Marc:Do you like it?

00:31:51Guest:I love it.

00:31:52Marc:The remake?

00:31:53Marc:Yeah.

00:31:53Guest:Yeah.

00:31:54Marc:Oh, man.

00:31:54Marc:Do I got to watch that?

00:31:55Guest:I think it's good.

00:31:56Guest:I mean, obviously, it was made in 2018, so it's not going to compete in terms of visuals.

00:32:01Guest:It's just not – it's working with that 2010s color palette that's so fucking gray and dull.

00:32:06Marc:Yeah.

00:32:06Guest:But it's – soundtrack, mwah, mwah, mwah.

00:32:10Marc:Good.

00:32:10Guest:Yeah.

00:32:11Marc:I like the soundtrack of the original.

00:32:12Guest:Goblin is great.

00:32:14Guest:Oh, fucking Goblin is great.

00:32:15Guest:Soundtrack not.

00:32:16Guest:Maybe I shouldn't say soundtrack.

00:32:17Guest:I should say sound engineering.

00:32:19Guest:Yeah.

00:32:19Guest:Because they incorporate breathing sounds like a lot of like big like inhales, exhales, sighs.

00:32:27Guest:They incorporate that into the sound structure of the new movie.

00:32:30Guest:And I love that.

00:32:31Marc:Yeah.

00:32:31Guest:But no, no one beats Goblin.

00:32:33Guest:The music isn't better.

00:32:34Marc:That's the name of the band.

00:32:35Guest:So they were an Italian group called Cherry Five.

00:32:39Marc:Yeah.

00:32:39Guest:But Goblin is the name they work as when working with Dario Argento on movies.

00:32:44Marc:And they did a lot of them?

00:32:45Guest:I don't know how many they did, but they collaborated on a few.

00:32:49Marc:God, you'd think I'd have at least one of their records.

00:32:52Guest:I love the fucking soundtrack with just like some weirdo going like.

00:32:55Guest:So good.

00:32:59Yeah.

00:33:00Marc:Yeah, I think that with this movie, more so than the other one, I get the fun of the whole thing.

00:33:09Guest:Yeah.

00:33:09Marc:Yeah, and I knew that it was a unique and inspired vision.

00:33:15Guest:Yeah.

00:33:16Marc:And I was able to enjoy things that looked ridiculous more because the effect was greater somehow.

00:33:24Guest:The effect is great.

00:33:25Guest:Yeah.

00:33:26Marc:Yeah.

00:33:26Marc:All right.

00:33:26Marc:Well, that was good.

00:33:28Marc:We did it.

00:33:28Marc:Woo.

00:33:29Marc:And now I got to watch the 2018 one?

00:33:33Guest:I guess.

00:33:33Guest:We could watch whatever.

00:33:35Marc:All right.

00:33:35Marc:Well, we'll figure it out.

00:33:37Marc:Yeah.

00:33:37Marc:We already watched Under the Skin.

00:33:38Guest:We already watched Under the Skin.

00:33:40Guest:And we watched that Mike Lee movie, which I'm glad we watched.

00:33:42Marc:Which one?

00:33:43Guest:The High Hopes.

00:33:43Guest:I made you watch it.

00:33:44Marc:Right.

00:33:45Marc:But that's not a horror movie.

00:33:45Guest:No, it's not.

00:33:46Guest:But that's been our viewing experience lately.

00:33:49Guest:All right.

00:33:50Marc:Well, I mean, I could talk about Mike Lee.

00:33:52Guest:Mike Lee.

00:33:53Marc:But we don't need to.

00:33:54Marc:But yeah, it's interesting you like that one.

00:33:56Guest:I love that one.

00:33:57Marc:Because you like the relationship between those two.

00:33:59Marc:It was kind of cute.

00:34:00Guest:Yeah.

00:34:01Marc:But I thought your insight into the end of it was good.

00:34:03Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:34:04Marc:The sense that you knew they would eventually have a baby because they cared about everybody in a kind of parental way.

00:34:11Guest:It's just obvious.

00:34:12Marc:It is?

00:34:12Guest:To me.

00:34:13Guest:I don't know.

00:34:13Marc:I miss everything.

00:34:14Guest:No, you don't miss everything.

00:34:17Marc:I do.

00:34:17Marc:I miss the sort of poetic nuances sometimes.

00:34:21Marc:I don't quite put them together.

00:34:22Guest:You laser in on stuff and then you can't see the forest through the trees.

00:34:25Marc:Yeah.

00:34:26Guest:But you have very insightful, laser-precise comments on certain things.

00:34:29Guest:On trees, yeah.

00:34:32Marc:All right.

00:34:32Marc:Good job.

00:34:33Guest:Thank you.

00:34:34Guest:Good job, you.

00:34:46Thank you.