BONUS The Friday Show - The Sea of Humanity, Part 2
Guest:Oh my God, when they finally get this guy alone in the ring, that should have been, they should have called the cops.
Guest:Like, they murdered this man.
Guest:Chris, it's your big day.
Guest:Mac, I'm ready.
Guest:I'm ready.
Guest:Are you ready?
Guest:I am very ready.
Guest:I don't know if anybody else is, but I'm ready.
Guest:For everyone out there listening, this is a show we taped over a week ago because I was not going to be around this week.
Guest:And we will bring to you the second part of Chris and I looking at WrestleMania III from 1987 later in the show.
Guest:But for all you WTF listeners and folks who just enjoy the chit-chat here on the Friday show, there was something that came up a few weeks ago.
Guest:Chris was asking me, I believe you were asking me about, did I ever have any impulses to be a comedian or get into comedy?
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I went through my whole rigmarole with that, my whole shtick.
Guest:And you said, no, you never had that, not even anything close, but that you did have the desire to once, just once, tell a story that you say is your one story.
Guest:That was how you categorized it.
Guest:This is my one story.
Guest:I have one story.
Guest:And you said, I would like to tell it on The Moth or This American Life.
Guest:yes when meanwhile you're on a show right now you have a show that you are have access to every week uh and you can do this story at any time but i would not let you i said it had to be built up right so we we ended last week's show with a little bit of a cliffhanger and said that we will do this story and right here i'm not gonna make anybody wait any longer the anticipation is killing everyone
Guest:And so we're just going to go right into it.
Guest:This is your stage, Chris Lopresto, the story, your one story.
Guest:And now the floor is yours.
Guest:What is the story you have to tell?
Marc:My story is about being banned for life from a grocery store.
Marc:So I met a girl, now my wife, and at the time she was a member of the Park Slope Food Co-op.
Marc:Ever heard of it?
Marc:I have heard of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is a member-only grocery store in Park Slope, Brooklyn.
Guest:It's legendary in its strife that is caused by the members of the Park Slope Food Co-op.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Infamous, I would say.
Marc:So to be a member of this food co-op, you have to agree to work once every six weeks.
Marc:Now, my wife at the time, she cuts cheese in the basement, which sounds hilarious.
Wow.
Guest:and also seemed to be a genuinely fun gig to have like that's her thing like her one job there every week she has to go she it was always the same cut cheese in the basement always cutting cheese in the basement every six weeks yes and what is that what does that entail
Marc:It entails getting the cheeses from various regions of the world and cutting them in an appropriate amount of weight so that you can then bag it and then put a little scanner on it so that people can buy it for X amount of dollars.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, I'm up to speed on this cheese cutting.
Yeah.
Marc:So once we moved in together, she told me that I should join the food co-op because it would be considered stealing if I'm benefiting from her grocery runs to this exclusive grocery store.
Marc:And let me tell you.
Marc:I was not into it.
Marc:I begrudgingly accepted.
Marc:I am, you know, just someone who wants to make someone else happy.
Marc:So I figured I'd do something interesting like cutting cheese or working the register or something, right?
Marc:So I filled out my application, got assigned a job and a day and a time.
Marc:Well, I was assigned custodian at 7 p.m.
Marc:on Mondays.
Guest:Did they look at you first?
Guest:Was it totally visually judgmental?
Guest:They looked at you.
Guest:They're like, you look like you need to have a giant ring of keys.
Guest:A mop.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think it was blind.
Marc:I mean, I did ask, like, is there anything?
Marc:Like, nah, this is all we got.
Marc:It's like, okay.
Marc:So my job was to empty wastebaskets, clean the bathrooms, break down tables and stack chairs, mop the floors, all kinds of great stuff.
Marc:Not exactly what I had in mind.
Guest:And this is so you could get like some fig spread or something, right?
Marc:This is so I can actually go and shop and give this place money so I can get food.
Marc:Like this is, I mean, I could go to Key Food right down the street, but no, this food is better apparently.
Marc:So I digress.
Marc:So for two whole years, every six weeks, I had to stop what I was doing and go to the food co-op and be a janitor for a night.
Marc:Every shift, there was a checklist of things to do.
Marc:There would be like a few of us each shift.
Marc:We would split the chores and divide and conquer.
Marc:As time went on, I actually became like a crew manager.
Marc:I was like the manager.
Marc:I would tell people, okay, do this, do that.
Marc:I'll do this.
Marc:And we'll, you know, that's what we'll do.
Marc:So I would listen to podcasts and empty the trash can and clean the toilets.
Marc:I would actually have to clean the toilets at this place.
Marc:And all that, every single item, until every single item was checked off, right?
Marc:So we had a checklist, checked everything off.
Marc:And once everything was done, I would just leave.
Marc:I would also tell my staff, like, hey, you know, get it done quick.
Marc:We can get out of here before the second half of Monday Night Football or Monday Night Raw, that sort of thing.
Marc:Well, apparently...
Marc:It's not just the items to do on the list that are important.
Marc:It's the amount of time you spend at the grocery store.
Marc:Because I would do all my tasks in about an hour and then leave.
Marc:Apparently, this is frowned upon.
Marc:Apparently, I'm supposed to do all these tasks in two hours and 45 minutes, no less.
Marc:So I was expected to be a janitor and leisurely do these tasks starting at 7 p.m.
Marc:and leave at 9.45.
Marc:So one day I get a letter in the mail saying that I've been accused of time theft and I will have a chance to plead my case next week.
Marc:So first of all, I'm mortified because this is my wife's thing.
Marc:I don't give a shit about this grocery store.
Marc:And here I am just fucking it up and like embarrassing her to her peers, right?
Marc:So I plot out what I'm going to say.
Marc:I write it down that I, you know, I...
Marc:legit never missed a shift in two whole years right uh and i didn't understand that i was required to be there for that long and uh you know just you know sort of just beg for forgiveness and like hope for just a warning right uh well i get to the co-op
Marc:And I go to the admin office.
Marc:Now, this is the same room that I used to go and dismantle tables and stack chairs, right?
Marc:Well, now I see why these tables were set up.
Marc:It was set up to be a trial.
Marc:I was the defendant.
Marc:I sat on one table, across from me on another table were three people, the plaintiffs, and between us was another table with three judges.
Marc:Across from the judges sat a fucking grocery store reporter.
Marc:I shit you not, a grocery store reporter that was reporting for this trial.
Marc:I felt like Joe Pesci walking into the basement room thinking he was about to get made in Goodfellas.
Marc:Also, upon reflection, the scene is basically the same exact scene from Oppenheimer, third hour of Oppenheimer, where he's on trial.
Marc:It's that scene.
Marc:So he's a total kangaroo court.
Marc:Yes, a total kangaroo court, okay?
Marc:So the plaintiffs hand out a thick packet of documents.
Marc:I'm waving it right now.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:This thick packet of documents, and the judges allow me a few minutes to look it over.
Marc:Now, Brendan, this document is about...
Marc:50 pages.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:50 pages long.
Marc:And in it are the list of my time theft occurrences and color screenshots of video they have of me entering and leaving the grocery store like I'm Jason fucking born.
Marc:I swear.
Marc:Look, you can say, I know it's a podcast.
Marc:Look, there's fucking...
Marc:Video surveillance.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You see these for Al-Qaeda.
Guest:Like these are from like Zero Dark Thirty.
Guest:They show like, look, I think Bin Laden was coming in and out of the compound here.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So they alleged that I tried to hide my identity by switching shirts or removing a hat.
Marc:Uh, as, as, you know, again, like I'm, I'm fucking Jason Bort.
Marc:Uh, they're opening remarks by the plaintiff.
Marc:Uh, and I'm asked if I have any open remarks.
Marc:And I honestly felt like saying again, just like Joe Pesci, except this time from my cousin Vinny that, uh, yeah, everything they said was bullshit.
Uh,
Marc:However, I tried to stay professional, let them know that no ill intent was happening.
Marc:Again, hoping for a slap on the wrist, right?
Marc:They called witnesses to the stand.
Marc:An administrative worker who saw me leave multiple times, and I knew this motherfucker was clocking me because he was giving me just the evil eye, just this bald, white, bearded motherfucker.
Marc:Uh, anyway, he would say that, you know, he would see me every, every shift and I would leave before the, the amount of time.
Marc:Um, yeah, they also called the fucking video, uh, guy who was hired to, to look at the surveillance and, and, you know, Mark and take pictures of the video of me.
Guest:Actually, if you had only given to calico cut pants, you would have, that guy would have been on your side because he gives, uh,
Marc:So when they asked me to testify, I threw myself on the mercy of the court and explained that I didn't know about the time stipulation and explained that I wasn't hiding my identity.
Marc:I simply got sweaty walking up and down stairs and cleaning toilets and that I wanted to change.
Marc:So there's a mountain of evidence at this point piling up against me.
Marc:They call the recess to talk amongst themselves.
Marc:And by the way, these fucking judges, there was like a nice judge who was like, don't worry, it's going to be fine.
Marc:And then like a serious judge who would just just be shaking his head the entire time and then just like.
Marc:Another judge who was just kind of like fined, like, you know, I don't know.
Marc:We'll see what happens.
Marc:Five minutes later, they call us back in and told me that I was found guilty and banned for life from the Park Slope Co-op.
Marc:Now it's at this point that they told me that every member of my household was also banned for life from the grocery store.
Marc:So I am now panicked.
Marc:I am begging them to spare my wife.
Marc:as she has nothing to do with these crimes.
Marc:Also, slap on the wrist, warning, nothing.
Marc:They told me, oh, that's a great idea.
Marc:We may think about doing warnings in the future, but because previously there were no warnings, you're banned for life from this place.
Marc:So they also told me that since we're living together, my wife and I, there's no way for them to reconsider.
Marc:I then started to lie and say that we were on rocky ground and going to separate any day.
Marc:Nope, their decision is final.
Marc:And that is how I got us banned for life from the Park Slope Co-op.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:That's my story.
Guest:I mean, it's a great story because I have so many questions.
Yeah.
Guest:Shoot, what do you got?
Guest:All right.
Guest:So the first thing is, with all these witnesses, where were the motherfuckers from your staff who you also got to finish their work so quickly?
Marc:So I didn't realize that this was going to be such a serious crime.
Marc:Again, I thought it was going to be a slap on the wrist, like a warning.
Marc:But I told them, I was like, guys, I'm the crew manager.
Marc:Like...
Marc:you could ask anyone that works with me.
Marc:They're like, well, we're not asking them, we're asking you.
Marc:And I was just, I was fucked, man.
Marc:I was just completely fucked.
Guest:But what did they say to the idea that you were like, but my whole thing was I thought I needed to get everything just done.
Marc:They said, no, in the contract that you signed, there's a two hour, 45 minute time allowance.
Guest:And did they ever say what you were supposed to do if you got done in 45 minutes?
No.
Marc:No, they said you're just supposed to do your job and be there for two hours and 45 minutes.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah, no way around it.
Guest:You know whose story this matches up with perfectly?
Guest:Who's that?
Guest:You are Larry David when he worked at SNL.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yes, when he was a writer at SNL.
Guest:that he tells this story that like he came in and, you know, it was like, okay, the show, you know, it's Tuesday or whatever shows on Saturday.
Guest:And, uh, here's some of the things we're working on.
Guest:He pitched things and whatever.
Guest:And it's like Tuesday, he comes into work and,
Guest:nobody's there whatever he doesn't give a shit he doesn't like anybody so he just sits down and he writes all his scripts right and then it's like midnight and he's going home he's like waiting at the elevator and one of the producers is like where are you going and he's like home i did i worked all day i've been here like all day long and they they were like
Guest:oh yeah no but we do like an all-nighter on tuesday like this is uh this is how we've always done it and he's like yeah it ain't how i'm gonna do it like and and he contends that that like basically got him like basically you know put on the outs with the the snl uh brain trust of course wow yeah looks good on you though yeah
Guest:wow that's amazing so yeah all right the other thing i have to say and this is going to come out a little harsh and so i hope you forgive me i hope she forgives me but this is to your lovely wife aaron who i who i'm very fond of i was in your wedding party aaron is a great wonderful lovely person bring it you can bring it
Guest:She brought this on herself.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:100%.
Guest:All she had to do was keep going to the grocery store.
Guest:She could have cut cheese in the basement for the rest of her life.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:100%.
Marc:I did not have to be there.
Marc:What was she thinking?
Marc:She knows who I am.
Marc:Like, why would she think this is a good idea?
Marc:Like, I don't.
Guest:But also beyond that, it's like, not only was it not a good idea, you then went and did like an extra good job.
Guest:The job you did was so good.
Guest:You got both of you kicked out of this place.
Marc:Also, can I just say, this place sucks.
Marc:I actually went to this co-op.
Marc:The third date I had with my wife, we went to the park.
Marc:We actually met up with her sister and her boyfriend at the time.
Marc:Had a lovely time.
Marc:We went to dinner.
Marc:We came to the Park Slope Food Co-op.
Marc:And can I tell you, I went in there as a visitor.
Marc:And I was just like...
Marc:All right, well, this place is weird.
Marc:I'm going to leave now.
Marc:I'm going to leave all of you here.
Marc:I'm just going to go home, so bye.
Marc:And her boyfriend at the time was like, well, that's the last time we're seeing that guy because this place is fucking nuts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, a great story.
Guest:I'm very glad you did it here.
Guest:I think if you did it on This American Life or The Moth, those shows are listened to, I think, by 97% of the membership of the Park Slope Food Co-op.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And you would have probably hurt their listenership.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Because there would have been a war would have been created amongst the listeners of those shows who had been so angry that you did this.
Guest:And then there would have been another group that were going to tear up their membership cards in solidarity.
Guest:Which might have been part of my plan, I'll be honest with you.
Guest:Honestly, no, I can't.
Guest:You're a better man than I. Because I would have left there and I would have been like, I'm going to spend every waking moment of my life figuring out how to shut this place down.
Guest:Like I would like vengeance would be mine.
Marc:Food inspectors.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:You, you, you are done.
Marc:By the way, did I ever tell you that story?
Guest:No, you never told me that.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:I can't believe I never told you that story.
Guest:No, I figured it was some like deep shame as you were starting the story out, but it's no, it's more like a comedy of errors.
Marc:Yes, it was.
Marc:Yeah, it's my one story.
Marc:I feel like I've told it a bunch.
Marc:And I just, yeah, it's quite indicative of who I am.
Marc:And my wife, who's like a Girl Scout or Boy Scout.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, yeah.
Marc:And she married just the worst person imaginable to ruin her time at the grocery store.
Guest:I hope you guys are enjoying Trader Joe's, where everyone can go without having to be a fucking janitor.
Guest:Why do I have to be a janitor?
Guest:Well, that's excellent.
Guest:I mean, I was going to tell people to write in with their similar stories, but man, please don't write in with a similar story to that because I don't know if my empathy, I don't have a big enough well for it to read all that.
Guest:But yeah, anything you want to write us about, there is a comment sheet in the episode description.
Guest:Just click on the link and you can send us comments about whatever you want.
Guest:Two weeks ago, we talked about The Fugitive and we got a great note in the comment section here from Steve in Newfoundland who sent us.
Guest:A very nice, long, detailed explanation of why he enjoys the show.
Guest:But he was super psyched that we were talking about The Fugitive.
Guest:He says he hopes that the new release comes to him.
Guest:He says not everything comes to Newfoundland.
Guest:So, yes, Steve, we will keep fingers crossed for you that you will get a version of The Fugitive that you can go see in the theaters and won't have to risk it being the lowlights version with all the action scenes cut out.
Guest:But yes, we're glad you like the movie, love the movie as much as we do, which came out 30 years ago.
Guest:And it's interesting, 1993 was this kind of huge year for blockbuster movies.
Guest:The movie theater near me, Nighthawk Cinema, is doing a repertory series of movies that came out in 1993.
Guest:And so they've had a bunch of the big blockbusters there.
Guest:No Fugitive, which, you know, I'm always snakebit going to see that one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But just the other night, they were showing Cliffhanger, the Stallone movie where he is a, I guess you would just call him a park ranger rescuer.
Guest:Like, that's their job.
Guest:Like, they're there to rescue people who get stuck on the mountain.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Like, I don't know that they have any other job in that movie.
Guest:But he's very good at climbing.
Guest:until he kills his friend's fiancé or wife.
Guest:I'm not sure what they are.
Guest:But the opening scene in the movie, he's not able to save her, and she dies.
Guest:And then that sets in motion the plot of Cliffhanger, which is, like, mixed with Die Hard.
Guest:And there's a criminal act going on with John Lithgow and his team of thieves, and they're trying to steal treasury bonds.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:Did you ever – you've seen Cliffhanger, right, Chris?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I've seen Cliffhanger only like twice.
Marc:So that's interesting.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Why?
Guest:Did you see it like when it came out?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I remember seeing it when it came out and then I saw it on VHS.
Guest:So I did not see it in the theater when it came out, but I saw it on VHS.
Guest:And I remember liking it like you do when you're 12, 13 years old, whatever, and it's an action movie.
Guest:But I never saw it again.
Guest:And I actually like never really thought of it much again.
Guest:And and yet I had a kind of fine memory of it.
Guest:Oh, Cliffhanger.
Guest:That was good.
Guest:I remember being good action movie from the 90s.
Guest:So when I saw they were showing it at my nearby theater, I went to see it on Monday night and it was fine.
Guest:But it's not good.
Guest:And it's not particularly memorable.
Guest:There's a lot in it that is kind of a very routine 90s action style.
Guest:There's nothing wrong with it, per se.
Guest:It really occurred to me that...
Guest:This movie does not have any cultural stickiness, but something like, you know, Predator does.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or Commando even.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then I started thinking about Arnold and Stallone.
Guest:And it's like, I don't know, push came to shove for you.
Guest:Who are you?
Guest:Who you got?
Marc:Arnold versus Stallone.
Marc:I'm going Stallone.
Marc:I mean, that same year, Cliffhanger, there was Demolition Man, which was like a movie that I can probably, like, you know, Desert Isle movie.
Marc:Like, I'm in on that.
Marc:And also grew up with all the Rocky movies.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You know, Rocky was great.
Marc:And then we got like Tango and Cash, which was garbage, but still kind of fun.
Marc:Then we got Copland.
Marc:I mean...
Marc:Sylvester Stallone is just my guy through the years, and that's not to take anything against Arnold.
Marc:Arnold has his stuff for me, but I'm a Stallone guy.
Marc:How about you?
Guest:Okay, well, to me, it's Arnold in a walk.
Guest:It's not even close.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Really?
Guest:How?
Guest:I'm sitting there watching this, trying to figure that out.
Guest:What is it about this Stallone that does not connect with me?
Guest:And why do I love Arnold so much?
Guest:And, you know, at the time I was the same way.
Guest:I'd see any Arnold movie and I'd watch it 20 times.
Guest:And I never had that feeling with Stallone.
Guest:And there's this moment in Cliffhanger where he is trying to... Where they've collected one of the briefcases of money.
Guest:And him and his partner, Janine Turner, are on the mountaintop at night.
Guest:And they have to...
Guest:camp out there because, you know, they're running from the bad guys.
Guest:So they're burning the money to start a fire on the, on the mountaintop, snowy mountaintop.
Guest:And Stallone's like throwing the money in the fire and he goes, cost a fortune to heat this place.
Guest:And it's a very, it's like the, one of very few laugh lines in the whole movie.
Guest:And for that, it's very minor.
Guest:And then he turns to her and says, sorry for the bad humor.
Guest:Like he apologizes for it in the moment.
Guest:and i realized like oh that's it that's the problem with this guy overall for me was he was way too self-serious and you know you all you need to do is go back to rocky one and know that like this guy he wrote this movie and he was like i'll bury it in the outdoor and let the worms at it if you don't let me play the part like it was that important to him and you watch this cliffhanger where that he co-wrote he's the writer of it right right
Guest:So it all went through him.
Guest:And it starts out with this horribly tragic opening.
Guest:It's good.
Guest:It's well done, frankly.
Guest:And it seems to set the movie in play in a way that would have a lot of drama.
Guest:Once the criminal aspect of it comes in, that drama gets diminished.
Guest:But the drama of him accidentally, not accidentally, he just can't save this woman from falling to her death.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's nobody's fault, really.
Guest:It's just that he can't do the thing that a rescuer has to do.
Guest:And she slips from his hand.
Guest:He couldn't do anything else.
Guest:And that's that.
Guest:And, you know, then his best friend who hates him for that happening and he blames him for her dying and he blames himself for dying.
Guest:And it's actually like a good seeds of drama.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:compelling and then it's nonsense for the whole rest of the movie with these with these criminals and you know it doesn't even rise to the level of like die hard or even though the director is the guy who directed die hard to rennie harlan like nothing ever feels like it's fun and i gotta feel like one of the reasons it doesn't feel like it's fun it's because this guy laid
Guest:this horrible dramatic conundrum into the beginning of the movie.
Guest:That's just now in the DNA of the thing.
Guest:And part of me is like, yeah, good for you, pal.
Guest:You were like trying to deal with something that was interesting here.
Guest:But the, the, the reason why none of these movies stick other than Rocky, which has this like underdog sports formula to it, that movies have taken off on from, from that point on.
Guest:The cliffhanger thing just feels like disposable.
Guest:Whereas everything in an Arnold movie was imbued by Arnold's personality, right?
Guest:And all you got to do is watch that like pumping iron and you're like, or go watch this new Netflix documentary that he did.
Guest:Have you watched it?
Guest:I have.
Guest:And it's crazy because like, he's so unapologetic about all he cared about at the time was like being rich, being famous, getting a lot of power, sleeping with a lot of people.
Guest:And he did it.
Guest:And you're like, woohoo, go buddy.
Guest:Like, congratulations.
Guest:You fulfilled your dreams.
Guest:He's like an unapologetic Republican in those days.
Guest:And you're just, but you're watching this guy and you're like, man, he deserved everything he got.
Guest:He worked and he got it.
Guest:And he had the talent to get it.
Guest:And he's so effortlessly charming.
Guest:And that's the thing you notice in Pumping Iron, too, where you're like, man, this guy, like, he's a megawatt star.
Guest:Like,
Guest:And all of that charm and all of his sense of knowing how to wink at the camera, it like was always there in all those movies.
Guest:It's why they wound up putting him in comedies and he makes Twins and Kindergarten Cop.
Guest:And then you know the story about Stopper My Mom Will Shoot, right?
Guest:No.
Guest:He tricked Stallone into making it.
Guest:It was an Arnold movie.
Guest:Like somebody wrote it to be Arnold and they sent it to him and he was like, this is shit.
Guest:Get it out of here.
Guest:But...
Guest:tell sly i'm gonna make it shut up a hundred percent this this has been documented he said tell sly i'm gonna make it because i want him to make it and it will bomb he knew it would bomb and so sure enough they got word out oh arnold's very close to making this but you know the the the the deals might fall apart and stallone jumped at it and it was terrible and not fun it was like one of the great bombs in movie history and
Guest:and he did exactly what he said he was going to do now here's the amazing thing about this 19 let's go back to 1993 that's what we were talking about in the first place right yeah so cliffhanger comes out it's may it's a hit it makes 255 million dollars it was his follow-up to stop or my mom will shoot so
Guest:So even like, and that's a modest hit compared to Jurassic Park, which comes out a month later, but it's still a hit and he's kind of back as an action guy.
Guest:A month after that, Schwarzenegger comes out with his follow-up to Terminator 2, Last Action Hero.
Guest:And it's a bomb.
Guest:It's his first real bomb.
Guest:It makes $137 million.
Guest:It does not make back what it costs to make.
Guest:It's kind of...
Guest:derided as a movie that doesn't work and it's confused and the critics are terrible with it the audiences don't care jurassic park is just stomping away on everything that's out there and it bombs and so but but you i just watched that movie again recently and it's still good i still like it but it made me realize oh it was too much
Guest:of arnold knowing what he is right he's too self-aware exactly and so it's like the the the we this is this weird helix that happens in 1993 where stallone's like dour self seriousness crosses with arnold's like playful self-awareness and they like body switch and
Guest:It's like one of those, like, parent trap movies.
Guest:Like, one becomes the winner, one becomes the loser.
Guest:And it's super fascinating.
Guest:And then, yeah, Demolition Man, that comes out right after Cliffhanger, also a hit.
Guest:So, like, Stallone was kind of back in that moment.
Guest:And Arnold got back, too, because he just goes back to the Jim Cameron well and makes True Lies.
Guest:Yeah, huge hit.
Guest:And sitting in that theater, I was like, wow, this has clarified everything for me.
Guest:It clarified why I was never really a Stallone guy and why I was an Arnold guy.
Guest:And then what happened with Last Action Hero, which I could never really understand.
Guest:Like, I loved that movie.
Guest:I thought it was great.
Guest:And it bombed.
Guest:That's got to be a big reason, was like the kind of...
Guest:Trading Places of Arnold and Sly on this one summer in 30 years ago.
Marc:Yeah, the jockeying for position.
Marc:Yeah, that's fascinating.
Marc:Last Action Hero, the first movie I ever saw by myself.
Marc:Oh, that's a great thing to remember.
Marc:Yeah, I remember I was like, are people going to be looking at me?
Marc:Am I the weirdo?
Marc:And I remember just watching Last Action Theater.
Marc:I was like, this is the best.
Marc:Why don't I do this more of it?
Marc:So, yeah, the first movie I ever saw by myself.
Guest:I believe the first one I ever saw by myself was King Ralph.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:The movie with John Goodman.
Guest:And I believe I had to go see that by myself because my parents were going to see Silence of the Lambs and I was not allowed.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I went to see King Ralph while I was playing at the same time.
Guest:All right.
Guest:If you have anything you want to share with us about movies or WTF or times you got banned from grocery stores for life, you can answer that in the comment section.
Guest:We just go to the episode description and click on the link that we put there for you and fill out that form.
Guest:Cost you nothing.
Guest:And right now we're going to move back to what we were talking about last week.
Guest:We have just a few days away at this point.
Guest:Coming up on Sunday is AEW All In live from Wembley Stadium, where they will have most likely in excess of 80,000 people in the building, possibly more than 80,000 tickets sold.
Guest:And the only thing we could really compare that to in our wrestling experience is
Guest:is WrestleMania III from the Pontiac Silverdome in 1987, March 29th to be exact, with an audience of slightly more than 78,000, or if you're Vince McMahon, 93,173, which is what they announce in this part of the program that we're going to be talking about.
Guest:And they said it is the new indoor attendance record.
Guest:Whatever that meant.
Guest:It apparently really was the indoor attendance record is exactly what you were saying last week, Chris, that like they had a good number.
Guest:They didn't have to fudge it.
Guest:But like the number that they actually got into that building was the indoor attendance record at the time bigger than I think a Rolling Stones concert that had the previous indoor attendance record.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Indoor because it was a domed stadium, right?
Guest:I think the Pope broke it later.
Guest:And then since then, it's been broken many times by that Dallas football stadium.
Guest:I think the NBA All-Star Game was held there with 100,000 people or something once.
Guest:And then WWE as well broke it with WrestleMania 32.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But this is still a monumental event and really on the list of gigantic stadium shows.
Guest:The only one that was rewatchable, the only one that we could watch again because some of them are just not available.
Guest:And then the only one that of the ones that are available was worth watching again.
Guest:And then this is the portion of the program where it really picks up.
Guest:I mean, the Roddy Piper, Adrian Adonis match in the first half of the show is a total heat fest.
Guest:Everyone gives Roddy a big send off.
Guest:But now they go to intermission and they come back.
Guest:And one of my favorite things is happening here once they come back from intermission.
Guest:It's getting dark.
Guest:Yeah, it's not totally dark, but it's getting dark.
Guest:So you get this like like that's one of the great things about this WrestleMania three is the way the show looks is so different than any other wrestling show because you get these various stage.
Guest:It's like it's like going to a day game into a night game at a baseball stadium.
Guest:It's great.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Also, why did they have an intermission?
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:At that time, they would do intermissions for the reason you do them at any show.
Guest:It's like, get these people out, go to the bathroom, get their food, go buy merchandise, and then come back.
Guest:And they gave them 15 minutes in the building.
Guest:I think on TV, when you bought this on pay-per-view, it would be a five-minute intermission where they'd literally just put a blank screen up that says intermission and a countdown of five minutes.
Guest:And then they'd do five minutes on the back and front end of that intermission.
Guest:where they're doing interviews and, you know, backstage bits.
Guest:And it's giving people time to go and spend their money, use the bathroom, whatever, in the buildings.
Guest:A building of 80,000 people.
Guest:You've got to give them some time.
Guest:Gotcha.
Guest:And did you buy this on pay-per-view?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:In fact, I didn't even have cable in my life at this time.
Guest:Same.
Guest:And I didn't even know what pay-per-view was.
Guest:And I don't think a lot of people did.
Guest:I think we thought when I was a kid, we thought that if you had cable, it just meant there was a channel on your cable where these things would come in.
Guest:So I remember telling my father, can you call Uncle George, his brother, who had cable, and tell him to tape wrestling on Sunday night, whatever it was.
Guest:And he called his brother and I hear them talking and then he gets off the phone and he's like, no, he said that cost 30 bucks.
Guest:I was like, what?
Guest:You have to pay for things you're already paying for?
Guest:It was mind-boggling to me.
Guest:I did not know that that could happen.
Guest:And the hilarious thing was, I remember when we started working at Air America, Dan Pashman told me he had the same exact experience.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, that he was like, I'm going to watch WrestleMania on Sunday or whatever.
Guest:And his friend at school was like...
Guest:You have to pay for that, you know?
Guest:And he was like, no, it's on cable TV.
Guest:And the friend was like, yeah, but then you have to pay extra to get this.
Guest:And Dan said to him, if Mean Gene Okerlund were here right now, he would call you a liar.
Guest:Ha ha ha ha!
Guest:Great, great quote from Dan.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Also, he was wrong.
Guest:Yes, he was.
Guest:That's amazing.
Marc:Gene would not have defended him.
Marc:No, he would not.
Marc:I actually, I remember this from my friend's house had the hardcover.
Marc:No, it's not hardcover.
Marc:It's like a plastic shell, like a shell case.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, it's like what the Disney movies.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:I'm so fucking old.
Marc:I'm so sorry for younger viewers.
Marc:Disney VHS were in those shells, yeah.
Marc:Disney VHS were in these lovely clamshells, I think they would call them.
Guest:Clamshell, that's it.
Guest:I was trying to think of it.
Guest:Yeah, that's it.
Marc:But the WrestleMania ones.
Guest:A little mermaid with a dick on it.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yes, but the WrestleMania ones were black, and it was like dark.
Guest:Oh, and it had the whole card listed on the back, and I used to study that thing.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:as if it was scripture, okay?
Marc:I would, like, as if I'm reading the Rosetta Stone.
Guest:You're holding two tablets, two clamshells, like Survivor Series in WrestleMania III.
Marc:It really is, though, captivating.
Marc:It has the whole card on it.
Marc:There's the main event, retirement match, intercontent.
Marc:I mean, it's just great.
Marc:And then at the very bottom, they have the matches that really don't mean anything.
Guest:Teeny, tiny print.
Marc:Yeah, teeny, tiny print.
Marc:It was...
Marc:The fucking best.
Marc:I would do this all the time at my friend's house.
Marc:I would go to Blockbuster Video, which is a video rental place.
Marc:And sometimes I'd be browsing.
Marc:And then I would just go over to the wrestling and just see my old friends.
Marc:See how they're doing.
Marc:And look at those clamshells.
Guest:Hey, this clamshell.
Guest:I haven't seen you in a while.
Marc:I swear to God, it was a thing to do on a Friday in Staten Island.
Marc:It was like one of my favorite things, my favorite memories as a kid.
Marc:That's how I remember WrestleMania III and watching WrestleMania III.
Guest:So did you get it from the video store in the first place?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So once we found out that there was this terrible act of capitalism that caused you to have to pay twice on cable TV to get the vaunted wrestling show, my father found a person at work who recorded it, but...
Guest:That person had a list of everyone who wanted to watch it.
Guest:It was like a wait list.
Guest:And like, we would wait week to week to week.
Guest:Hey, is the, is the wrestling, did you get it from work yet?
Guest:No, no, he still hasn't brought it in yet.
Guest:And then finally, I remember like the day that it came and my dad was like, okay, he said, we can have it for two days.
Guest:You watch it.
Guest:And I, I must've watched this.
Guest:It's three hour thing.
Guest:I must've watched it six times in two days.
Guest:Like,
Guest:However many hours there are in the day, whatever the math is on that, I just let that thing loop around and around and watched it all the time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:And then later in life, I did buy that clamshell VHS.
Guest:Do you still have it?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Yeah, I still have it.
Guest:I don't have a VHS player, but I have that tape.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:All right, so we open up the second half of the show with a six-man tag, which included the Hart Foundation, who are the tag team champions, and Danny Davis.
Guest:Danny Davis was the crooked referee who had helped them win the title, and he had now been forced into action.
Guest:He had to wrestle.
Guest:He was a wrestler.
Guest:He wasn't just a referee.
Guest:Right.
Guest:but they were facing the British Bulldogs and Tito Santana, all of whom had gotten screwed by Danny Davis.
Guest:So the whole point of this match was to build to these guys getting their hands on Danny Davis.
Guest:And oh my God, when they finally get this guy alone in the ring...
Guest:That should have been... They should have called the cops.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like, they murdered this man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This poor, poor guy.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Like, the British Bulldogs are, like, so roided up and gigantic.
Guest:And we know from many stories that they took liberties with people all the time.
Guest:And they are annihilating this guy.
Guest:Just, like, dropping him on his head.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:They're giving him receipts, apparently, for screwing them over.
Marc:Holy shit.
Guest:Yeah, screwing them in storyline.
Guest:Like, he did a storyline thing, and they gave him a real receipt.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:It was gnarly, honestly.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So they murder him and then he gets the win.
Guest:That's the end of the match.
Guest:He gets a pin by using the Jimmy Hart megaphone, which is always a great prop.
Guest:Great prop.
Guest:And wait, Jesse wasn't there for this one.
Marc:Who was doing the commentary?
Marc:No.
Marc:So, so for some reason that, so they come back from intermission and it's Gorilla and it's Mary Hart.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:Mary Hart.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, and Bob.
Marc:Bob Euchre's back.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Bob Euchre there.
Marc:So it's the three of them doing the commentary and it's, it's wild.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, what was... Like, Mary Hart, good sport for... Oh, but that's the thing about all the involvement in this from Mary Hart and Bob Uecker and Alice Cooper.
Guest:Like, all the famous people that they had involved, they were all in, man.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like, they totally played the parts.
Guest:And, like, of course, like, Mary Hart would do that.
Guest:She's a TV presenter.
Guest:She knows what she's doing.
Guest:But she sounded like a...
Guest:Minute to minute WWF television watcher like that.
Guest:She knew everything that was going on.
Marc:She was great.
Marc:I mean, amazing.
Marc:I would love to know what her WWF viewing habits were because it was it was really she came off pretty good.
Marc:Like she could.
Guest:Yeah, and she was good when she's interviewing them in the back.
Marc:With Miss Elizabeth.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:She's like friends with Miss Elizabeth, but then Randy Savage is out there, and she's like, oh, I don't like this guy at all.
Marc:No, she was like, is he always like this?
Just great.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So then the match after that was a quick one.
Guest:Coco Beware, your favorite, the Birdman.
Marc:Yeah, Coco Beware.
Marc:He looked great.
Marc:Jesse Ventura's back for this match.
Guest:Yes, because in the first instance, he was out stealing the dog.
Guest:What was going on there?
Guest:Like he took Matilda the Bulldog away because he didn't want it at ringside.
Marc:i guess so bizarre like okay yeah that didn't really pan out but sure but he's back uh to do commentary and he he says like oh uh frankie would be good in a soup like what do people cook like parrots and soups like i don't know i mean he was a navy seal so i'm all bets are off man true true but yeah coco beware uh that was a fine match it was
Guest:Coco Beware versus the natural Butch Reed, who was also supposed to get a run at the Intercontinental title after this, which wound up not happening.
Guest:Wound up going to the Honky Tonk Man instead.
Marc:Yeah, like kind of immediately, right?
Guest:Yeah, pretty close, yeah.
Guest:And then, well, then now we're at, speaking of the Intercontinental title, it is that time in the show for...
Guest:Ricky the Dragon Steamboat versus Macho Man Randy Savage.
Guest:And before you even get to the match, and they do the recap of this feud, I'm reminded of having Big Vinny V on this show a couple months ago, and he said that that was the angle that hooked him as a wrestling fan.
Guest:And I think I've heard that from various people, I don't know, two dozen times in my life, three dozen times.
Guest:So many people...
Guest:became lifelong wrestling fans because of this angle where Ricky the Dragon Steamboat had his throat draped across the guardrail, and Macho Man Randy Savage jumped onto the back of his neck, crushed his larynx, or larynx, if you're Jesse the Body Ventura, and then...
Guest:threw him in the ring and drove the ring belt into said Lernix.
Guest:And Ricky Steamboat couldn't breathe.
Guest:He was turning blue.
Guest:And it's just an amazing cell job of that.
Guest:And this grew to a blood feud that culminated in front of these 80,000 fans.
Guest:I had goosebumps as it was even starting watching it again.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:By the way, Ricky Steamboat's music comes in so hot.
Guest:Oh, well, that's because you're not getting the real music.
Guest:So the real music he came out to was Sirius by the Alan Parsons Project, which is the one that eventually they used for the Chicago Bulls, right?
Guest:It's like the big Chicago Bulls music.
Marc:So it's post and they don't have the rights to it.
Guest:The thing you're hearing is in post.
Guest:Yeah, because they're trying to cover up the song they don't have the rights to.
Marc:I mean, why don't they just pay for the rights?
Guest:Because they're cheap.
Marc:Okay, fine.
Marc:Fair enough.
Marc:But yeah, Ricky's super over.
Marc:Although, is that also post-production?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:I mean, he was a hot, hot baby face.
Guest:Everyone just wanted him to kick this guy's ass.
Guest:It was a perfect feud.
Guest:And he's got George the Animal Steel with him, who's also a very well-loved character.
Marc:Can I ask, why is George the Animal Steel's tongue always green?
Marc:He's an animal.
Marc:I mean, I guess that doesn't... I mean, we're all animals, but I don't know.
Marc:It just freaks me out when I see his green tongue.
Guest:I don't like it.
Guest:You don't eat turnbuckles, Chris.
Guest:What can I tell you?
Marc:Yes, I guess not.
Guest:So they're getting ready to start this match.
Guest:One of the things I've always loved about it is Jesse points out...
Guest:That Macho Man has the ability in this, if he would like, to get disqualified or counted out and still hold the title.
Guest:And he says a thing very quickly.
Guest:He says he would lose the match and the winner's money, but he'd still be the champion.
Guest:And I'm like, that's all you got to do.
Guest:Just to establish that this is a fight for money.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, it is, like, WWF somewhere along the line, I think probably around the time of when, you know, they were doing, you know, the Attitude Era and Crash TV and it just seemed like Jerry Springer's show all the time.
Guest:And they stopped caring about why these people are actually fighting.
Guest:It just became this, like, weird comic book universe where they're all just, they show up to this job and sometimes you fight and sometimes you don't.
Guest:Sometimes you have a pie fighting
Guest:contest or whatever this was still in an era and it's one of the things i loved about aew when i first started watching it again was like ah yes what they're trying to do is present a show that is a about a real sports league
Guest:Like, it doesn't have to be that this is a real sport.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But they are presenting a sport, presenting a combat sport that you are watching.
Guest:And the reason that these people are participating in it is because they will win money if they are good at it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's so simple.
Guest:And it's like, and ultimately, that should be the storyline for every match.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I want to win because I'm going to put food on the table for my family.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, it's so simple.
Marc:It's right there, and they just don't see it anymore.
Marc:It's wild.
Guest:Yes, and I think it's fans that have been watching it as long as we have.
Guest:We have that ingrained in our heads.
Guest:But I think kids who watch it today, when they're like, oh, no, the wrestling is about the bloodline arguing with each other.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:The soap opera is what entices them, not the idea that it's a pretend combat sport.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, okay.
Guest:So this match is famous for so many reasons.
Guest:One of them being that Randy Savage was meticulous in the planning of his matches.
Guest:And this match, he planned unlike any that they've ever had before.
Guest:He had numbers next to every step of the match.
Guest:and they would just sit around and and quiz each other on okay what do we do at step 17 okay what do we do at step 16 what do we do at step 21 and they would and they would uh you know run through the whole match verbally as well as physically so that they would have it to within an inch of its life like they did not want anything left to chance and in fact ricky steamboat doesn't love the match because of that reason because it was like
Guest:hard work for him, a guy who could go an hour with Ric Flair on any day and call it all in the ring, right?
Guest:So this idea that he had to do a 15-minute match that was meticulously plotted out beat for beat was not his favorite thing, but sorry, Ric, it's one of the best matches that's ever happened.
Marc:So is this...
Marc:and Macho Man got to call this match because he's the heel, right?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I guess, and in the sense that he's calling it, he called it weeks ago when he plotted it out on paper.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:You know, it's not called in the ring.
Guest:They're just, they're doing a script.
Guest:This is the thing that everyone thinks wrestling is in general, right?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:When you talk to a regular person, they go, oh, isn't that all scripted?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I guarantee if you ask them, like, well, what does that mean?
Guest:You mean scripted.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:They say they're following a script.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, they know, okay, now you punch me, and then the next thing that happens is I kick you, and that is not how wrestling works generally.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Wrestling is improv, right?
Guest:Wrestling is feel.
Guest:Wrestling is an athletic competition, even though it is predetermined.
Guest:These men and women have to do these moves that require some type of athleticism.
Guest:These guys followed a script.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:It was totally scripted.
Marc:Like Hitchcockian, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like plotted it all out.
Marc:So he's never done that ever again?
Marc:Like that's the first and only time he's done that?
Marc:Has who?
Marc:Randy?
Guest:Yeah, Macho Man.
Guest:Well, I don't know that he ever did it that extensively, but anyone who ever fought Randy Savage said he, you know, in the back, went over everything ahead of time.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:So, like, he left nothing to chance in the ring.
Guest:And, you know, he was a guy who wanted to know start to finish where the match was going.
Guest:He's the last person I would think that would do that, too.
Guest:Like, he's...
Guest:I don't know that he's just such a control freak in real life.
Guest:Like he was super controlling of Elizabeth, apparently.
Guest:Like he didn't let her in any other dressing rooms.
Guest:He was just super, like the character he was playing was like him turned up to 11.
Guest:He was paranoid about his wife and he was always wanting to be in control of everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, what's noticeable about this match is the lack of switching cameras during the match.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Ricky's on the ropes and Macho Man chops him and we don't move from that camera.
Marc:It's so natural.
Guest:Yeah, that's what's great about it.
Guest:The stupid thing about all the camera switching is that their philosophy of doing that is that they think it makes you feel immersed in the match, like being in an amusement park ride or something like that.
Marc:Or a VR headset.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's the opposite.
Guest:It immediately takes me out of the match, and watching this made me feel like I was right there in it.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like, I accidentally stumbled across a fight in an alley, and now I'm just standing here watching it.
Guest:Yeah, I have front row seats for it, for sure.
Marc:Someone...
Marc:Someone should really do like a re-edit to show what this match would look like in like WWE today.
Marc:Yeah, if you just kept cutting four times in a second.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Honestly, I think they would be like, oh yeah, why the fuck are we doing that?
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:But this match is like probably the most re-watched match that I've ever seen.
Marc:Yeah, same.
Marc:Something I've always come back to to watch.
Marc:And it is just fantastic.
Guest:I remember Chris Jericho saying that this was like, you know, like many people, this was the match he watched to learn how to become a pro wrestler.
Guest:And he used to be able to go in like practice rings with his friends and they would repeat this match.
Marc:No, that's amazing.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:Oh, that must be so fucking cool to be that talented to do that in a wrestling ring.
Marc:That's fucking great.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:There's a part at the end of this where Gorilla Monsoon says, you can live to be a hundred.
Guest:You won't see a better match than that.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And Jesse Ventura, I remember in an interview, was like, Gorilla was right.
Guest:Like, I've seen a lot of matches, and I've never seen one better than that.
Guest:And now, look, you could watch Wrestling Today, and I'm sure any given week, there will be a match where the quality is as good as or better than Macho Man and Ricky Steampoke, right?
Yeah.
Guest:The difference is these guys had a months-long storyline that culminated in this match.
Guest:So just like we talked about two weeks ago with the Alabama waterfront brawl, right?
Guest:You had a massive emotional investment in the outcome of this match by the time it started, right?
Guest:You wanted this good guy to win because he had been so heinously wronged, okay?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Then not only do they have all that as the as the fodder, but they're doing it in this massive building in front of 80,000 people.
Guest:And their stated goal was to steal the show from the main event, which was the most hyped main event in history at that point.
Guest:And the literally biggest drawing match you possibly could have of Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant.
Guest:And they did it.
Guest:It was successful.
Guest:So much so that there's rumors, nothing ever confirmed, but rumors that Hulk Hogan was pissed off and...
Guest:You know, one of the reasons Ricky Steamboat was going to soon lose the title was that it was like he didn't want this guy doing that on future shows.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:That's shitty.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hulk Hogan.
Guest:Hulk is like the classic shitty backstabber.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a heel.
Guest:True and true.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But but yeah, I mean, there's there's we've said as much as you can.
Guest:There's not much more to say about if you've never seen it.
Guest:My God, go watch it.
Guest:It's it's really one of the best.
Guest:It ends.
Guest:It has so many near falls and they keep happening throughout the match.
Guest:And it all leads up to basically a fluke pin.
Guest:I mean, it's not a fluke in that you would think.
Guest:Oh, it was like he just slipped on a banana peel or something.
Guest:But it's the idea that after all of the fighting that they've been through, Macho Man gets pinned because he's too weak to throw a body slam at this point.
Guest:And Ricky Steamboat just rolls him up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's really a tremendous match.
Guest:I would go watch it at the end of listening to this and enjoy it like it was 1987.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the come down from that is the guy who will soon take the Intercontinental Championship, the Honky Tonk Man.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And I mean, you do need a come down, right?
Marc:Like in, you know, since I'm a grown up, you know, I'm an adult and I've been watching wrestling with you.
Marc:I know now like, okay, you got to book a match where if it's a great, you know, a hot match, you got to book something that's going to just let the crowd kind of get back to, you know, stir because
Marc:They're just so high.
Guest:A cool down.
Marc:A cool down match.
Marc:And that's what the honky tonk man match is for sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's also especially because he was thought of as kind of a joke at this point.
Guest:I mean, kind of as a joke character, but they wanted him to be a serious threat and a serious threat because he's a guy who cheats a lot.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so...
Guest:Basically, it was booked in a way where it seemed like Jake the Snake was going to come out and slaughter this guy.
Guest:And Jake the Snake got Alice Cooper with him.
Guest:And, you know, the crowd loves Jake.
Guest:He's a big baby face.
Guest:But the Honky Tonk Man wins by cheating.
Guest:He holds the ropes and pins Jake the Snake.
Guest:And then you do get Jimmy Hart with the snake draped on him by Alice Cooper, who Jesse is burying.
Guest:Burying Alice Cooper.
Marc:He doesn't have very big arms, sadly.
Guest:He looks like Cooper spent some time in the weight room, huh?
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:He looks so tiny compared to Jake the Snake, though.
Guest:Like a stick man.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I mean, a lot of us would look very similar.
Guest:I am confident in saying that my biceps are bigger than Alice Cooper in 1987.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very confident.
Guest:Fair enough.
Guest:And I am not like a bodybuilder.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I am just moderately healthy.
Guest:Then the next match, now we're in the point where, you know, the crowd would just like to get to the main event.
Guest:So you're not going to wear out your welcome.
Guest:But you've got the Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkov who are heat magnets.
Guest:People hate them.
Guest:They're against the Killer Bees.
Guest:And this was the debut of Hacksaw Jim Duggan.
Guest:Wait, that was his first time?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:This is this is the beginning of him in WWF.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And he comes out.
Guest:He says he's not going to let these guys sing the Russian national anthem.
Guest:And, you know, he's he's there to protect America or whatever.
Guest:And at some point, him not letting them sing the national anthem translates into him taking his two by four and hitting the Iron Sheik across the back with it just right in the middle of the ring in front of the referee.
Guest:That's his strategy for protecting America.
Marc:So I guess that answers my question.
Marc:Why didn't this just become like a six-man tag match?
Marc:Or, I don't know, just like a two against one with, you know, Hacksaw Jim Duggan.
Guest:I think it was just an introduction thing.
Guest:And they, you know, again, it's like...
Guest:They didn't really care about the undercard of these things.
Guest:They want to introduce some characters or get people, you know, familiar with guys who are going to be on the shows going forward.
Guest:But like, look, I've said this a million times.
Guest:Vince did not care about anything that wasn't on the top of the card.
Guest:Everything else was just filler.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And Hacksaw had a little tiny American flag on his two by four or four or whatever it is, which is adorable.
Guest:I believe he had an American flag bandana on as well.
Guest:Yeah, he was he was a full red, white and blue.
Guest:And he would, I think two months after this, get fired along with the Iron Sheik.
Guest:Because they were pulled over together and were arrested for cocaine and marijuana possession.
Guest:And this was at the time when that was like a huge no-no.
Guest:Not a no-no to do drugs, but a no-no for a baby face and a heel to be traveling together and get caught.
Guest:Oh, that's amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so they were both fired.
Guest:For that.
Guest:And I believe it was Ted DiBiase had a match at some person's memorial.
Guest:There was a match between Ted DiBiase and Hacksaw Jim Duggan.
Guest:They'd been opponents a lot in the past, like pre-WWF.
Guest:And someone from WWF was there and they said, ah, let's give this guy a second chance.
Guest:So they rehired Hacksaw Jim Duggan.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How about that?
Guest:OK, but this is all to lead up to the main event, Hulk Hogan versus Andre the Giant, which gets the full video package backstory, which is great.
Guest:One of the great builds in all of wrestling history.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Great for every reason that, you know, they were doing on purpose, planting seeds and, you know, making sure that the, the, the, all the pieces were in place, but then also just good for unintentional things like Andre, because he's not a, you know, person you can understand when he talks, they just have him be silent and sit there a lot of the time.
Guest:And Hogan's freaking out going, all you had to do is ask, I would have given you a title shot.
Guest:And Andre just,
Guest:Darren daggers into him and it works so great.
Guest:It does.
Guest:The match is signed with a famous segment on Piper's Pit where Andre tears Hulk Hogan's shirt and crucifix off and challenges him at WrestleMania.
Guest:And, uh, apparently Hulk Hogan, if you pause it, you can see he had, uh, some kind of, uh, like, like Vicks Vapo rub or something on his finger.
Guest:And when Andre pulls the shirt off of him, he pokes his finger in his eye so that the stuff will sting his eye and he'll start crying.
Guest:no kidding yes which he does which he does but he didn't realize that when he was doing that andre apparently pulled the the cross so hard off of him that his chest started bleeding hogan's did he didn't know this so he's doing that he's really focusing on trying to look like he's crying and it's roddy piper who goes you're bleeding man
Guest:yeah and he does it so calmly that it just adds this level of realism to the thing and sells it way better than they ever planned uh just fantastic which then leads up to the great thing the next week uh where hogan comes back out on the piper's pit and they ask him will you accept andre's challenge yes or no and he goes yes
Marc:Like a real fucking maniac.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they cut to these dudes in the crowd and like... They're fucking pumped.
Guest:It's like victory in Europe dance.
Guest:Like they are... Hitler's dead.
Guest:If there was a nurse, a guy would have kissed her.
Guest:Like it was...
Guest:These are grownups and they're freaking out that this guy said yes to this.
Marc:And I mean, I mean, they're freaking out because I think and correct me if I'm wrong, but this should have been WrestleMania one's main event.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like this.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:No, I don't think so, actually.
Guest:But because it had not reached critical mass yet.
Guest:But they were.
Guest:When Hogan won the title in 84, the very first thing that happens, he's backstage, wins the title, doing an interview, and Andre comes out with the champagne.
Guest:And they knew then and there, this will be a future match.
Guest:We will build to this.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Gotcha.
Marc:This seemed like the logical end point.
Marc:This is the biggest star against the biggest person.
Marc:This is what you want.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And I think that what happened with WrestleMania 1 was it was such a financial gamble.
Guest:They would have gone out of business if WrestleMania 1 was a flop.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so they knew they had to rely on star power, which was why they brought in Mr. T. And he did.
Guest:He was a huge star at the time and absolutely was responsible for the success of WrestleMania one.
Guest:So I know that, you know, it was in the cards to have Hulk versus Andre, but they definitely knew they had to hold off and they obviously held off for the right spot.
Marc:Yeah, two years they hold on.
Marc:They didn't do it.
Marc:What was Andre doing in WrestleMania II?
Guest:He comes in and wins a battle royal.
Guest:And I believe part of that was due to him not being around filming The Princess Bride.
Marc:Ah, gotcha.
Marc:So this is there.
Marc:And also, unfortunately, Andre is deteriorating before our eyes.
Guest:It's basically like the last gasp.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So this is it.
Marc:And man, what a, I mean, the crowd, when Hogan says yes, is just losing it.
Marc:So yeah, continue.
Guest:So then they come out for the match.
Guest:Andre and Bobby Heenan ride the little ring cart and are pelted with garbage.
Marc:Okay, so I don't remember this, but I can't believe how much garbage was being thrown at them before.
Marc:There's 80,000 people there, and they are pelting them with garbage.
Marc:They've been there for so long.
Marc:They're just like, please get to the fucking ring.
Guest:But it's also, it's legit.
Guest:They hate these guys.
Guest:No one's pelting Hulk Hogan coming to the ring.
Guest:They're not like, come on, get to the ring, Hulk Hogan.
Guest:We're tired.
Guest:No, they're pelting him because he's bad, and they're cheering Hulk Hogan because he's good.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, they should be throwing trash at Hogan, but they're not.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You would have been the one guy kicked out of the Silverdome for throwing trash at Hogan.
Guest:Applaud him for doing the right thing.
Guest:Well, Hulk Hogan, and I don't know this for a fact, but he comes out to the ring without the cart.
Guest:And I am guessing...
Guest:That he saw Roddy Piper do it in the middle of the show and thought, well, now I have to do it.
Guest:That's hilarious.
Guest:I don't know that as a fact.
Guest:I'm guessing entirely.
Guest:But man, I put five American dollars on that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, that's fucking hilarious.
Marc:I mean, it falls in with his ego for sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:So Hogan comes out.
Guest:It truly feels like the biggest main event of all time when he gets out there.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I think Jesse even says something like that.
Guest:He's like, like you can hear in Jesse's voice that he is awed by what is going on in front of him.
Marc:Yeah, and Gorilla is pitch perfect in this match.
Guest:Oh, well, here's where we get the famous, the irresistible force meeting the immovable object, which is... I mean, was that his line?
Guest:Poetry.
Guest:I have no idea whose line that was, but it sounds natural only coming from Gorilla and no one else.
Guest:And it is great.
Guest:I mean, it's wrestling right there.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:The irresistible force meets the immovable object.
Guest:And they go face to face.
Guest:Here's where you can tell all the height stuff they've talked about with Andre is bullshit.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Because he's maybe three inches taller than Hulk Hogan.
Guest:But here's the thing.
Guest:Here's the thing Andre always had going for him.
Guest:Well, I shouldn't say had going for him because it killed him.
Guest:But he had acromegaly and it was untreated, which just means the pituitary gland is constantly secreting growth hormone.
Guest:And so he was a giant.
Guest:not just in his height, in everything about him continued to grow throughout his life.
Guest:So he like his finger looked like three fingers, right?
Guest:His, his wrist looked like a waist, you know, like everything about him was larger than life because if it was happening, that was what the, the, um, disability was, um,
Guest:And, you know, nowadays people get that treated, you know, Paul White, the big show who has the same condition.
Guest:They do surgery on the pituitary gland.
Guest:But so that's why it's not just a height thing.
Guest:It's a physical stature thing with Andre.
Guest:He really does seem like a giant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And he and Hulk are going at it.
Guest:And then in the first several seconds of the match is when the near fall happens that leads to the match we talked about.
Guest:Oh, so many months ago where Andre got the rematch because in this moment he thought he got a three count.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And then the match just kind of builds from there with Hulk being injured.
Guest:And it's a lot of Hulk selling, which, you know, it's not that fun, but he kind of had to.
Guest:Andre wasn't going to do a whole lot.
Guest:There is a part where he looks like he's going to pile drive him on the floor.
Guest:Yeah, like a real piece of shit villain.
Yep.
Marc:That's what a villain does.
Marc:He would do that.
Marc:He exposed the concrete for no reason.
Marc:Yes, he lifts the mats up.
Marc:And he's like, I'm going to kill this crippled giant.
Marc:I'm going to hurt him for real.
Marc:Like, God, what are we doing?
Guest:Thankfully, it backfires on him.
Guest:It does.
Guest:It does.
Guest:And so also, I will say this.
Guest:I remember when we talked about that Hulk Andre rematch, you know, maybe the second episode of the Friday show that we did.
Guest:And rewatching it, I was like, man, this was good.
Guest:Like, I enjoyed this.
Guest:This match, not so much.
Guest:No.
Guest:Like, it's very slow.
Guest:It's very plodding.
Guest:I think you would have only been into it in the moment because it was so exciting that this was happening now.
Guest:But like watching it now and knowledge of how Andre was practically immobile at the time, it's all smoke and mirrors to cover up for that.
Guest:It's like long bear hugs with Andre and keep fighting in the corner so he can hold on to the ropes and all of that stuff.
Guest:But it ultimately ends in Hulk Hogan delivering a clothesline that knocks Andre down.
Guest:And then as Andre is stumbling to his feet, a thing that most people watching wrestling
Guest:particularly watching WWF wrestling, had never seen before.
Guest:It is not the first time it happened, but WWF definitely sold it as though it was.
Guest:Andre gets body slammed by Hulk Hogan, and you can watch it a thousand times, and it is a miraculous-looking thing.
Guest:Especially knowing how hurt Andre was that he's essentially doing a cartwheel.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like you watch him plant his hand on Hogan's thigh.
Guest:And then he as Andre being the person taking the move has to kick his legs all the way up skyward.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now, Hulk's a strong dude, and he can, you know, help the move, right?
Guest:But Andre is doing a lot of work there.
Guest:And the both of them, whatever it was they had to do, they executed it beautifully.
Guest:So beautifully that it was used in, you know, highlight reels for the next 35 years.
Guest:Anytime WWF wanted to show anything, it's like in their opening video sequence.
Guest:It's just a famous shot.
Guest:Iconic.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:So wait, wait, but you, let's go back.
Marc:You said this isn't the first time this happened.
Marc:I thought it was the first time this happened.
Guest:No, yeah, exactly.
Guest:This is like same with 97,000 people being in the building.
Guest:This is just total.
Guest:It's also the same thing with, they announced several times that Andre's undefeated for 15 years.
Guest:Horseshit.
Guest:That was totally made up.
Guest:And it was also totally, like these guys were,
Guest:Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant in WWF had just fought like seven years earlier.
Guest:It was a famous Shea Stadium match in 1980.
Guest:So like it was when Hulk Hogan was a bad guy, but it wasn't like they'd never met before.
Guest:And this was so like, they would just tell whatever story they wanted to.
Guest:And you know why?
Guest:Because it's fake.
Guest:And because he can.
Guest:Anybody who wants to do this, go on YouTube and watch videos of Andre the Giant body slams.
Guest:And there are compilations.
Guest:Almost all of them are in Japan.
Guest:Some of them are from Mexico.
Guest:I know there's one where Kamala body slams him.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:But he would get body slammed all the time back in the day because he was good at it.
Guest:And it looked impressive.
Guest:But he's the one who's got to get up for it, right?
Guest:So especially you watch these compilation videos of Andre getting slammed, when he's younger, he can not only go up for it, he can kind of stiffen himself out so the guy giving it to him can kind of hold him there for a little bit.
Guest:So he'll go up and get held and then slammed, and it's super impressive.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:I do know that there's a rumor that Andre was thinking of not laying down for Hogan.
Guest:No, that's Hulk Hogan horseshit.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:It's total Hulk Hogan nonsense.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's not even a rumor.
Guest:It's a story that Hulk Hogan made up and has told in every documentary about this all the time.
Guest:Thinks it's a great story to talk about how Andre might not put him over or whatever.
Guest:No, never the case.
Guest:Never the case.
Guest:Never even a scintilla of thought that that was going to happen.
Guest:Oh, I hate Hulk Hogan so much.
Guest:What a dick.
Guest:I mean, he's just a carny till the very end.
Guest:That's what it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, no, in the current telling of things, like Andre, this was Andre's last match.
Guest:It was not.
Guest:He fought for four years after this.
Guest:Four years?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, he's at every WrestleMania after this up to WrestleMania VI.
Guest:He is fighting Ultimate Warrior.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:He has like a king or something, right?
Guest:Well, that's even after that.
Guest:I mean, WrestleMania IV, he fights Hogan.
Guest:He's in the tournament.
Guest:WrestleMania V, he fights Jake the Snake Roberts.
Guest:WrestleMania VI, he's in a tag team match.
Guest:And he's wrestling.
Guest:He's a full-time wrestler for the next four years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's no, this is not his last match.
Guest:This was not, he didn't break his back when he body slammed him.
Guest:All of that is just, it's like, you know, Paul Bunyan tales.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Total nonsense.
Marc:Urban legends, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, by the way, Hogan wins on the quickest three count I've ever seen.
Marc:That's true, yes.
Marc:Like, what the fuck?
Guest:Why was that so quick?
Guest:It didn't have to be that quick.
Guest:I guess I guess it's one of those things they teach him like, you know, you do the long drawn out ones when there may be some doubt about the outcome.
Guest:But this it's like once the slam happened and then the leg drop, let's just go.
Guest:We got to go.
Guest:Let's just go home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The crowd is up as high as they're going to get.
Guest:You're not going to get them higher than that.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, fair enough.
Guest:And it does end with the crowd of 80,000 people at their highest high.
Guest:And some may say the same for WWF.
Guest:This could very well be argued this is their highest high.
Guest:Of course, as we talked about a year later, they had the most watched wrestling program of all time on network TV.
Guest:That was a rematch.
Guest:of Hulk and Andre.
Guest:There have, of course, been sellouts of WrestleManias now all the time when they do these stadium shows and they do them two nights and sell 60,000 tickets.
Guest:But I think you could very convincingly argue that this Pontiac Silverdome show, WrestleMania III, with legit 78,000 people in the building,
Guest:is the biggest moment in WWF history.
Guest:And potentially it will be the same for AEW this weekend when they do all in at Wembley Stadium for 80,000 fans, more than 80,000 fans at this point.
Guest:I am super excited just to see the shot.
Guest:I want the card I'm excited for, but I really just want to see it.
Guest:These people, who I admire very greatly, and I'm a big supporter of this company, I want to see them in front of 80,000 fans.
Guest:What are you looking forward to the most?
Guest:Clearly the main event, MJF and Adam Cole, because there will be matches on the card that are better.
Guest:There will be matches on the card that have more flash, are more spectacular.
Guest:The anarchy in the arena.
Guest:There's the, you know, Hangman, Omega, Ibushi, six-man tag.
Guest:That'll be great.
Guest:Coffin flop match, baby.
Guest:Yes, there's a coffin flop match with Sting.
Guest:And there's going to be tremendous amounts of Gaga on this show.
Guest:And I guarantee everyone will like it.
Guest:But much like this WrestleMania that we just watched...
Guest:It's all moot if the main event doesn't deliver.
Guest:The main event has to be the biggest thing on the show.
Guest:It has to feel that way.
Guest:And when we watched Hulk and Andre come out for this thing, it absolutely felt like there was nothing that was going to get bigger than this.
Guest:And I hope Adam Cole and MJF are up to that challenge.
Guest:I think they are.
Guest:And it is the thing I want to see the most.
Marc:Yeah, I'm nervous.
Marc:I'm nervous.
Marc:This is the biggest match of their careers, of this company's career.
Marc:It's like almost a make or break, and it's all on these two guys' shoulders, and I'm just a tiny bit nervous.
Marc:But yeah, I'm looking forward to that.
Marc:I'm also looking forward to FTR versus the Young Bucks.
Marc:I think those are my two favorite matches that I'm looking forward to.
Guest:Well, when we're here on the Friday show next week, we will give you a little blow by blow of all in and what we thought.
Guest:And I think we may be joined by someone from AEW that week as it's leading up to another pay-per-view all out.
Guest:And we will we'll kind of run down that card as well.
Guest:What's your what's your final verdict on WrestleMania three, though, before we go?
Marc:It's a solid three for me.
Marc:Three out of five.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I, the Ricky Dragon and Macho Man match, like obviously the best of the best and the iconic moments with Hulk and Andre elevated.
Marc:But other than that, it's kind of a shitty card.
Marc:But here's my thing about it.
Guest:All the shit is kept very manageable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's nothing that outstays its welcome.
Guest:Doesn't go 30 minutes long.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you watch it and it's four minutes and they're kind of like, okay, next thing.
Guest:And it has like, it really does have for better or worse, especially when it comes to the little people, it has a circus feel the whole show.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You're done with this one.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well now we bring out the acrobats.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Now you're done with this one.
Guest:Now we bring out the strong men.
Guest:And so I think, uh, you know, to me, it really, it doesn't feel so much like a wrestling show, at least not what we think of as a modern show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it feels like the height of wrestling as spectacle.
Guest:The thing that we all think about with like cartoon Hulkamania, this was it in real life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, if you want to watch it, it's on Peacock with all the WWF pay-per-views.
Guest:WrestleMania 3, probably one of their most watched things.
Guest:And all in, if you're interested in that, is on regular pay-per-view.com.
Guest:or bleacher report uh and uh you know you could find movie theaters that are showing it or dave and busters places like that it's sunday afternoon it's not a nighttime pay-per-view like the most of these are it's going to start at 1 p.m eastern so if you watch it let us know what you think just click on the comments section in the episode description you can send us your thoughts on that your thoughts on wrestlemania 3 your thoughts on any other crimes that
Guest:that Chris might have committed in the course of his green grocer job.
Guest:But until we're all janitors paying our penance, I am Brendan and that's Chris.
Guest:Peace.