BONUS Marc on Movies (with Kit!) - Mulholland Drive

00:00:44Marc:So now I think I should establish at the beginning of this conversation that you are obsessed with David Lynch to the point where you walk by his house.

00:00:56Guest:Only the one time.

00:00:57Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:00:58Marc:But you sought it out.

00:00:59Guest:I didn't seek it out.

00:01:01Guest:All right.

00:01:01Guest:I didn't seek it out.

00:01:02Guest:Let me let me explain.

00:01:04Guest:Let me explain.

00:01:05Guest:Right.

00:01:05Guest:At some point during the pandemic, I Googled where does David Lynch live?

00:01:11Guest:Right.

00:01:11Guest:Because I was curious whether he lived in Los Angeles.

00:01:15Guest:Right.

00:01:15Guest:I did not expect Google to provide me with his exact home address.

00:01:19Guest:Right.

00:01:20Guest:And once you see the house and realize that it's the house from Lost Highway, it becomes difficult to forget that that's the house.

00:01:27Marc:Right.

00:01:27Marc:I mean, once you see it because you went there because you knew David Lynch.

00:01:31Guest:Well, no, you see it on the I Googled.

00:01:33Guest:Where does David Lynch live?

00:01:34Guest:Boom.

00:01:35Guest:There was his front door and the exact address.

00:01:38Guest:And it was like here.

00:01:39Guest:And I was like, oh, I know where that is.

00:01:42Marc:So now that you've moved into the neighborhood.

00:01:45Marc:Yeah.

00:01:45Guest:Yeah.

00:01:46Marc:Ish.

00:01:46Marc:Did you just walk by there once?

00:01:49Guest:Only the one time.

00:01:50Marc:Did you linger out front like a weirdo?

00:01:53Guest:Absolutely not.

00:01:54Guest:Absolutely not.

00:01:55Marc:You were aware of that?

00:01:56Guest:I was aware of that.

00:01:57Marc:That you shouldn't?

00:01:57Guest:That I shouldn't.

00:01:58Marc:Uh-huh.

00:01:59Guest:That I shouldn't.

00:02:00Marc:Did you walk slowly to look and see if he was around, like outside?

00:02:02Guest:No, not at all.

00:02:03Guest:There was a car in the driveway, and I thought, oh, God, and I kept moving.

00:02:07Guest:Yeah.

00:02:07Guest:But I did.

00:02:09Guest:No, I'm not going to actually say anything about the front of the house.

00:02:11Guest:There was a facet that I appreciated, but I'm not going to say that because I don't want to dox him.

00:02:17Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:02:18Marc:The way the numbers.

00:02:19Marc:I mean, how can you dox him?

00:02:20Marc:You looked it up on Google.

00:02:22Guest:It's since been removed, though, which is good.

00:02:24Marc:Oh, this was how many times do you look for it?

00:02:26Guest:Well, I was showing someone that like because shortly thereafter, I was like, I can't believe that you can just Google his.

00:02:33Guest:That seems inappropriate.

00:02:35Guest:And then it had thankfully been taken down by then.

00:02:37Marc:OK.

00:02:38Marc:Yeah.

00:02:38Marc:I mean, I have people that visit my house occasionally.

00:02:41Guest:Yeah.

00:02:42Marc:Yeah.

00:02:43Guest:We won't get into that.

00:02:47Marc:So.

00:02:47Marc:All right.

00:02:47Marc:Well, look now, despite what you may think.

00:02:51Guest:Mm hmm.

00:02:51Marc:I don't have a problem with David Lynch.

00:02:54Guest:I know that.

00:02:55Marc:I liked it.

00:02:55Marc:I'm looking here at his filmography.

00:02:58Marc:I've seen Eraserhead.

00:03:00Marc:I've seen The Elephant Man.

00:03:01Marc:I didn't see Dune.

00:03:02Marc:I've seen Blue Velvet.

00:03:03Guest:Do you remember?

00:03:04Marc:I'm sorry.

00:03:04Marc:I saw Wild at Heart.

00:03:06Marc:Did not see Twin Peaks Fire Walk With Me.

00:03:08Marc:Saw Lost Highway, saw The Straight Story, saw Mulholland Drive, saw Inland Empire.

00:03:14Marc:You saw Inland Empire?

00:03:15Marc:I did.

00:03:15Marc:That's with Laura Dern, right?

00:03:16Guest:Yeah, you sat through that?

00:03:17Marc:Yeah, barely.

00:03:19Marc:But see, I must have sat through Mulholland Drive at some point, too, before watching it again.

00:03:22Guest:Because you remembered the little people.

00:03:24Marc:Yeah, and I thought that was from Inland Empire.

00:03:26Guest:Yeah, well, it sounds like something that comes from Inland Empire.

00:03:29Marc:Inland Empire is about an actress, right?

00:03:31Guest:Yeah, Inland Empire, Laura Dern is an actress, and there's a fucking scene in it of Jeremy Irons, and he's a film director.

00:03:38Guest:I'm just mentioning this real quick.

00:03:40Guest:But there's a scene in it where Jeremy Irons is trying to direct on set, and David Lynch is in the background shouting things, pretending to be an electrician having a problem.

00:03:49Guest:And Jeremy Irons breaks on camera because of it.

00:03:52Guest:Yeah, but they keep it in, though.

00:03:54Yeah.

00:03:55Marc:I enjoy David Lynch as an actor, and I believe I watched Twin Peaks, all of it.

00:04:00Guest:Oh, really?

00:04:01Marc:Yep.

00:04:02Marc:I'm impressed.

00:04:02Marc:When it was happening.

00:04:03Guest:I'm impressed.

00:04:04Marc:Why?

00:04:05Guest:Because that doesn't seem like something you would sit through.

00:04:07Marc:I don't know.

00:04:08Marc:It was like episodic and interesting.

00:04:10Guest:Were you sober at the time?

00:04:11Marc:What year did it come out?

00:04:12Marc:Hold on.

00:04:14Marc:Let me look.

00:04:16Marc:He's made a lot of short films, man.

00:04:18Guest:He sure has.

00:04:19Marc:Twin Peaks.

00:04:20Marc:90 to 91.

00:04:22Marc:93.

00:04:22Marc:It was only... Oh, it was only six episodes?

00:04:27Marc:Four?

00:04:27Marc:It was only...

00:04:28Guest:He was only involved in the first season and a couple episodes in the second season.

00:04:34Marc:I was pretty newly sober if it was 90 to 91 and then after that.

00:04:39Marc:No, wait, was I?

00:04:40Marc:No, I wasn't.

00:04:41Marc:I wasn't sober at all.

00:04:42Guest:That makes more sense.

00:04:45Yeah.

00:04:45Marc:I wasn't in the least bits over.

00:04:47Guest:That makes more sense.

00:04:48Marc:For another nine years or so.

00:04:49Marc:See, there you go.

00:04:50Marc:Eight or nine years.

00:04:50Guest:Now I can imagine you sitting through it.

00:04:52Marc:But I saw Eraserhead as a midnight movie, and then I watched it again as a regular movie.

00:04:57Marc:Yeah.

00:04:58Marc:You know, Elephant Man I'm a fan of.

00:04:59Marc:But here's the point.

00:05:00Marc:And you and I watched recently, we went to the movie theater.

00:05:03Marc:Yeah.

00:05:04Marc:And then watch that one.

00:05:06Marc:Lost Highway.

00:05:07Marc:Lost Highway.

00:05:07Guest:Yeah, we did that for my birthday last January.

00:05:10Marc:Right.

00:05:10Marc:And then we saw Twin Peaks in a theater.

00:05:13Guest:No, we did not.

00:05:14Marc:Not Twin Peaks.

00:05:14Marc:I mean, Blue Velvet in a theater.

00:05:16Guest:We did see Blue Velvet.

00:05:17Guest:We saw Blue Velvet at the new Bev.

00:05:18Marc:Yeah.

00:05:18Marc:And you haven't seen it in a theater.

00:05:20Guest:No, I had not in a theater.

00:05:21Marc:Yeah.

00:05:22Marc:It's a different film.

00:05:23Guest:I'd never seen any Lynch films in a theater before going with you to Lost Highway in Blue Velvet.

00:05:27Guest:So that was sick.

00:05:28Marc:That's a good experience.

00:05:31Yeah.

00:05:31Marc:But it turns out, because, all right, so Mulholland Drive.

00:05:34Marc:Now, generally, we talk about horror movies.

00:05:36Marc:I think it could be classified as a horror movie.

00:05:38Guest:Yeah.

00:05:39Marc:Right?

00:05:39Guest:I agree with that.

00:05:41Marc:What else would you classify it as?

00:05:44Guest:Well, David Lynch classifies it as a love story, which it is.

00:05:47Guest:But it's also, in my opinion, a horror movie.

00:05:51Marc:Now, you see, right there out of the gate, it's like, to me, that's snarky and...

00:05:58Marc:kind of hilarious that he calls it a love story.

00:06:01Marc:It's a joke.

00:06:02Guest:I love him, yeah.

00:06:04Marc:Right.

00:06:04Guest:I love the snark, yeah.

00:06:06Guest:But... Coffee pause.

00:06:11Marc:Okay, so...

00:06:13Marc:When I watched Lost Highway, it was okay.

00:06:15Marc:There was a story.

00:06:16Marc:There wasn't a lot of a switch up to where it didn't kind of make sense to me.

00:06:21Guest:Lost Highway is kind of a Mobius strip.

00:06:23Marc:Yeah.

00:06:24Marc:It's fine.

00:06:25Marc:And this one, Lost Highway, I was on board.

00:06:29Guest:This one, Mulholland Drive.

00:06:30Marc:Mulholland Drive.

00:06:31Marc:I was on board.

00:06:32Marc:I was watching it.

00:06:32Marc:It looked good.

00:06:33Marc:I liked the stylistic elements.

00:06:35Marc:I liked all the little bits and pieces of it.

00:06:37Marc:But then in like the last act, it takes a switch.

00:06:39Marc:People are in different roles playing people you're kind of familiar with, either as corpses or other characters.

00:06:45Marc:And then I'm sort of like, what's happening?

00:06:48Marc:And what's, you know, what's with the box with the key?

00:06:51Marc:Who's who?

00:06:52Marc:What's happening?

00:06:53Marc:And, you know, I just not unlike other Lynch projects, I just got aggravated and I tried to make sense of it.

00:07:02Marc:And I know that.

00:07:04Marc:You know, I was told Sam Whipsight said, well, there's a dream logic to it.

00:07:07Marc:And it's like, OK, so when I wake up and dreams are still fresh in my mind, I try to figure them out.

00:07:12Marc:And you know what?

00:07:12Marc:I can't.

00:07:15Marc:And so I'm not going to say it's a bad movie, but.

00:07:19Marc:But for me, it was not a great experience because I end up frustrated at the end.

00:07:28Marc:And when I go over the parts and stuff, I can be like, well, that was a good part.

00:07:30Marc:This is a good part.

00:07:31Marc:That was interesting.

00:07:31Marc:That was acted well.

00:07:33Marc:I like this view of Hollywood and whatnot.

00:07:36Marc:It's a Hollywood movie.

00:07:37Guest:It's a Hollywood movie.

00:07:38Marc:But you claim that there is sense to be made.

00:07:41Guest:Yeah, there is.

00:07:42Guest:There is.

00:07:42Guest:I mean, look, he has never come out and said this because he doesn't like to he doesn't like to have authorial intent over his own films because the point of his films is to interpret them through your own, you know, consciousness.

00:07:54Marc:I get that.

00:07:54Marc:But what's his problem with story?

00:07:56Guest:There's a great story in here.

00:07:58Marc:What is it?

00:07:58Guest:OK.

00:07:59Guest:All right.

00:07:59Marc:A girl goes to Hollywood to make to make a break.

00:08:02Marc:Shush for a second.

00:08:04Yeah.

00:08:04Guest:Do you remember, by the way, I guess we should tell your listeners we're going to spoil the shit out of this film if they haven't.

00:08:10Marc:The movie came out.

00:08:11Marc:It's 22 years old, yeah.

00:08:13Marc:I don't think you can spoil it because it's still not going to make sense.

00:08:16Guest:No, it is.

00:08:17Marc:Maybe you should have spoiled it for me before I watched it.

00:08:19Guest:Okay, I wanted to and I offered to, but you said, no, I've seen it.

00:08:23Guest:All right.

00:08:25Marc:All I remembered was the little people and thinking like, that's stupid.

00:08:28Guest:I fucking love the little people.

00:08:30Marc:Go ahead.

00:08:30Guest:They freak me out.

00:08:31Guest:Okay.

00:08:32Guest:Do you remember how it ends?

00:08:33Marc:Oh, so let's see.

00:08:34Marc:Like, maybe I need to be like on weed.

00:08:36Guest:No, you don't.

00:08:37Guest:All right.

00:08:38Guest:I mean, it's better that way.

00:08:40Guest:Do you remember how it ends?

00:08:43Marc:Yeah.

00:08:43Marc:It ends on Mulholland Drive.

00:08:45Guest:Okay.

00:08:45Marc:Kind of.

00:08:46Guest:But do you remember the final bit with Naomi Watts?

00:08:50Guest:Where she kills the lady?

00:08:52Guest:She kills herself.

00:08:54Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:08:54Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:55Marc:Yeah.

00:08:55Marc:Because the little people were bothering her.

00:08:57Marc:They got big and they annoyed her to suicide.

00:09:00Guest:They got big and they annoyed her to suicide.

00:09:01Guest:That's right.

00:09:02Guest:And she's in that bed when she shoots herself, remember?

00:09:06Marc:In the bed that they saw the other corpse in earlier in the movie.

00:09:08Marc:Yeah.

00:09:09Marc:That had killed herself.

00:09:10Guest:Yeah.

00:09:11Marc:But it wasn't her that you could tell.

00:09:13Guest:Well, it ends up – Okay.

00:09:15Guest:Okay.

00:09:15Guest:So the movie is super color-coded and you have to kind of – Color-coded?

00:09:19Guest:Color-coded.

00:09:20Guest:You have to kind of be careful and pay attention and there are clues.

00:09:23Guest:To colors?

00:09:23Guest:Yeah, to colors.

00:09:25Guest:Okay.

00:09:25Guest:Because the bed that she falls into and then pulls the drawer and grabs the handgun out of the drawer and shoots herself is a bed with a magenta pink bed sheet set and a nasty avocado green throw blanket.

00:09:38Guest:Yeah.

00:09:39Guest:In the beginning of the movie, the first shot is the jitterbug sequence with the awesome Angelo Badalamenti music in the background.

00:09:47Guest:The second shot is someone's point of view falling down into that bed.

00:09:55Guest:So it begins with the jitterbug sequence and then that.

00:10:00Marc:Yeah.

00:10:00Guest:And then Mulholland Drive in almost black and white, that zoom in of the street side.

00:10:05Marc:And then all of a sudden you're with this character in the back of a car who is – what's her name?

00:10:10Marc:Laura Herring.

00:10:11Guest:Laura Herring's character.

00:10:13Marc:Yeah.

00:10:13Guest:We don't know her name at this point.

00:10:14Marc:And she doesn't either.

00:10:15Guest:But this is what I'm saying.

00:10:16Guest:So the –

00:10:18Guest:The context of the film is that Naomi Watts is playing a character named Diane Selwyn who went to Hollywood and had a very terrible time and ended up doing some very terrible things because of it.

00:10:30Guest:Diane Selwyn kills herself with a gun.

00:10:34Guest:And as she's dying, this is my theory, at least, as she's dying and her brain is sparking out, dying.

00:10:40Guest:this is the fever dream that her dying brain is having to comfort her.

00:10:44Guest:It's a mix of fantasy of what she wanted to happen in Hollywood and memories and rearranging people that she's seen in her life into other roles to make herself more of a heroine.

00:10:57Guest:And it's just a sort of comforting dopamine trip that she is going on during the very brief, quick process of dying.

00:11:05Guest:So the first...

00:11:07Guest:Like, you know, two hours of the film is this poor girl's, you know, dying dream.

00:11:13Guest:And the final half hour are the events leading up to her taking her life, the real events.

00:11:19Marc:So her character in the end in that apartment all kind of strung out.

00:11:25Guest:That's reality.

00:11:26Marc:That's that's where she ended up in Hollywood.

00:11:29Guest:Yeah.

00:11:29Marc:So we don't know, and it's not necessarily important that – did she stay at her aunt's house?

00:11:33Marc:Did things go bad?

00:11:35Guest:I mean, like there is a – is there a story in there that we – Yeah, it's revealed in the dinner scene on Mulholland Drive.

00:11:42Guest:She's talking to the older woman whose name is Coco, and she tells the real story.

00:11:47Guest:The real story is that she won a jitterbug contest.

00:11:50Guest:That led to her trying to become an actress.

00:11:52Guest:When her aunt in Canada died, she left her money that Diane used to go to Hollywood –

00:11:59Guest:Right.

00:11:59Guest:Diane met this other upcoming actress, Kamala Rhodes, at an audition for a movie called The Sylvia North Story.

00:12:06Guest:Yeah.

00:12:06Guest:They became friends and lovers.

00:12:08Guest:Right.

00:12:09Guest:But then Kamala got big.

00:12:11Guest:Betty didn't.

00:12:12Guest:Right.

00:12:13Guest:Kamala got attention from this director that Betty wanted.

00:12:16Guest:Justin Theroux.

00:12:17Guest:Yeah, Justin Theroux that Betty wanted so desperately to, you know, have the roles that he was giving Kamala.

00:12:24Guest:And at the same time, she was losing her lover to this director who was taking a romantic interest in her.

00:12:29Guest:So that's the real story.

00:12:31Guest:It's all revealed in that dinner scene.

00:12:33Marc:So the other story about Justin Theroux, you know, not being able to make the movie because of the weird not being able to cast it the way he wanted to.

00:12:40Marc:And that was like she wanted that role.

00:12:43Guest:It's a dying cynics fantasy about all the excuses and mysterious, dark Hollywood reasons that she didn't end up the way she wanted.

00:12:52Marc:So tell me more about this color coding.

00:12:53Marc:What's with the box?

00:12:55Guest:I think, I mean, listen, I'm not an expert and I don't know, but I think that the color blue kind of represents awakening in the movie.

00:13:03Guest:And so when we meet Rita, she's got the blue key.

00:13:06Guest:We don't see the box until almost the end.

00:13:08Marc:Yeah, with the scary homeless person.

00:13:10Guest:With the scary homeless person.

00:13:12Marc:Okay, so we'll break it down then.

00:13:15Marc:Okay, so in that scene where the guy who was on my show

00:13:22Marc:in the opening scene, Patrick Fishler.

00:13:27Guest:Patrick Fishler.

00:13:29Marc:So he's in the diner and he's like arriving.

00:13:31Marc:He's talking to his friend who he says he had this dream about that diner and what was going on.

00:13:38Marc:And that, you know, there was something behind the diner that was terrifying.

00:13:43Marc:And then but like and then he comes back later in passing in the diner when Naomi Watts' character is sitting there.

00:13:52Guest:Yeah.

00:13:52Marc:So.

00:13:54Marc:So what was that about?

00:13:56Marc:Why is it the opening of the movie?

00:13:57Marc:And then we come back to that homeless person who I guess was real.

00:14:02Guest:Yeah.

00:14:02Guest:So that's one of the that's one of the maybe we should talk about that later on, because that's one of the harder to inspect scenes in the movie.

00:14:10Guest:But he opens a film with it.

00:14:13Guest:Yeah.

00:14:14Guest:That is part of the dream she's having, I think.

00:14:17Marc:And the contract killers, that's all like that's all part of her dream.

00:14:19Marc:Did she know that guy?

00:14:20Marc:It feels like that guy is someone she actually knew because she in her real story, she's at the diner with him.

00:14:27Guest:In the real story, she seems to, in addition to being a small time actress, to have also kind of maybe gone into sex work on the side.

00:14:34Guest:And she seems to just kind of know that guy from the streets.

00:14:40Guest:And because there is another character in her fantasy who, like, while she's being Betty Elm, the fantasy version of herself, she creates another character to fill in the role of Diane Selwyn, who's just kind of this, like, dirty hooker that you see hanging out at Pink's Hot Dogs with the assassin guy.

00:15:00Marc:Yeah, but she's friendly.

00:15:01Guest:Yeah, but she's friendly.

00:15:02Guest:There's nothing wrong with her.

00:15:03Guest:But she's just, you know...

00:15:04Marc:And was she a waitress at Winky's?

00:15:06Guest:She was, too.

00:15:08Guest:And I think that, yeah, I think in real life, Diane, in the real life narrative, Naomi Watts was either a waitress at Winky's or a frequent visitor to Winky's because you'll notice that when she's in her real life apartment, the coffee mugs that she has there seem to have been stolen from Winky's because they're the Winky's coffee mugs.

00:15:26Marc:So what you did this sort of like you've gone over, you've done a forensic analysis of this movie.

00:15:31Guest:I've watched this movie so many times.

00:15:32Guest:I love this movie.

00:15:34Guest:It's so fun to watch over and over and find new things.

00:15:49Marc:Which one?

00:15:49Marc:The opening scene?

00:15:51Marc:Or the one where she goes back and zooms on the name tag?

00:15:53Guest:The opening scene with Patrick Fishler where he describes the dream of the man behind the diner and says he's the one who's doing it, which is one of my favorite lines that's so mysterious.

00:16:02Marc:What is that?

00:16:03Marc:Doing what?

00:16:04Guest:I don't know.

00:16:04Guest:Like, is he the one causing this pain?

00:16:07Marc:And who's the other guy he's talking to?

00:16:08Marc:Does that guy come back?

00:16:09Guest:I've read on the I've read on the Internet that that guy's supposed to be his therapist that he that he dragged to Winkie's.

00:16:17Guest:But I don't know for sure.

00:16:19Guest:But so the last time I watched it, I noticed for the very first time that when they're having that diner scene, as the friend gets up to pay the check, the camera actually tilts down for a second to linger on their eaten meal of eggs and bacon.

00:16:33Marc:And that comes back.

00:16:34Guest:Well, no, then it cuts to them getting up and leaving and then from from the opposite side.

00:16:39Guest:And then the camera just slightly tilts down again.

00:16:41Guest:And this time the table they were just at is perfectly clean and set, which I don't think is an accident.

00:16:47Guest:Or if it was an accident initially, I think it was an editorial choice.

00:16:52Guest:Yeah.

00:16:52Guest:Like, I think it's a noticed thing by Lynch.

00:16:54Marc:Which means what?

00:16:55Guest:Which means that they were never there to begin with.

00:16:57Guest:They were a dream.

00:16:58Guest:This is a dream happening for Diane in the Winky setting.

00:17:01Marc:So that's.

00:17:02Guest:OK, so he said, I've already had this dream twice.

00:17:05Guest:And I think that this is the third dream that he's having.

00:17:09Guest:And he's just this is part of what's her name's dream.

00:17:12Guest:Yeah, he's part of what's her name's dream.

00:17:13Marc:Why?

00:17:13Marc:How's he fit in?

00:17:14Marc:Because just she saw him in passing.

00:17:16Marc:Oh, that's right.

00:17:17Marc:In that scene where she's talking.

00:17:18Guest:She saw him in passing at the Winkies.

00:17:20Marc:She just.

00:17:21Marc:At the cash register looking at her.

00:17:23Guest:Yeah.

00:17:23Guest:There's a bunch of people that sort of – and I think the thing they have in common is whether or not they're doing it intentionally.

00:17:31Guest:The way they look at her in the moment makes her feel inferior.

00:17:35Guest:And she fills them in later to play small roles.

00:17:40Guest:Like there's – I fucking took notes on this because I was so fucking excited.

00:17:44Guest:But like the people at that dinner party later in the movie –

00:17:47Guest:Um, Angelo Badalamenti is at that dinner party.

00:17:50Guest:The, the, this is the girl girl is at that dinner party.

00:17:53Guest:The cowboy is at that dinner party.

00:17:56Guest:Um, the waitress, um, the, the Patrick Fishler, they're all like in these scenes.

00:18:03Guest:No, he's not at the party.

00:18:04Guest:He's at the diner.

00:18:04Guest:Yeah.

00:18:05Marc:Um, but like just these very, all the people that you've seen in different roles really throughout the movie or, or an insidious as, as like the cowboys, like a creepy, weird character.

00:18:15Guest:It's almost like The Wizard of Oz when Dorothy's having a dream, and then she wakes up and says, I had a dream, and you were there, and you were there, and you were there, and that is David Lynch's favorite movie.

00:18:24Marc:It is.

00:18:24Marc:Yeah.

00:18:25Marc:Okay, fine.

00:18:26Marc:But see, I think that David Lynch gets a lot of leeway by, okay, so you picked through this, and it all makes sense to me, but what if I don't want to fucking do that work, and I'm just a guy that enjoys movies?

00:18:38Marc:Is it my job to allow him to rationalize this nonsense by saying it was a dream?

00:18:43Guest:No.

00:18:43Guest:No, I don't think so.

00:18:45Guest:I think that you can enjoy the movie on a subconscious level.

00:18:48Guest:I think it's fucking hysterical.

00:18:49Guest:That whole fucking drawn out scene with the assassin and shooting the extra bullet through the wall.

00:18:55Guest:Yeah, that was funny.

00:18:57Guest:I think that you can feel this movie as well as understand it on an analytical movie.

00:19:01Marc:I feel like that feels like a reality frame.

00:19:03Marc:That didn't feel like a dream.

00:19:06Guest:Yeah, you know, that one.

00:19:08Marc:It feels like that guy's story is real.

00:19:11Guest:I think that that guy is a real—he's an assassin in both the dream and reality.

00:19:16Guest:And I don't know how good of an assassin he is in reality.

00:19:20Guest:But in the dream, he has to be kind of a bumbling assassin for it to make sense that Rita, quote-unquote, got away.

00:19:27Guest:So she comes up with these—her brain is dying.

00:19:31Guest:Not all of it is going to make sense.

00:19:33Guest:I don't think all of it is keys to a mystery.

00:19:36Marc:I get that.

00:19:37Marc:Well, the fact that he was after Rita, that's one thing.

00:19:39Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:19:40Marc:But it feels like that perhaps this sort of the initial crime he does to kill that guy to get that black book.

00:19:47Guest:Yeah.

00:19:47Marc:Was something that maybe the real Naomi Watts character was party of or knew about because that seemed to be like genuine backstory.

00:19:57Marc:It didn't it wouldn't add up as a dream.

00:19:59Guest:No, no, it's in the dream because, see, in the dream, that guy that he kills is in the car crash that gets Kamala Rhodes run away.

00:20:09Guest:Oh.

00:20:10Guest:And I think it's I think it's implied that he finds the black book in that car crash.

00:20:15Guest:I think that's why the assassin has to he has to get the book and kill the girl.

00:20:19Guest:I think, you know.

00:20:20Marc:Oh, so.

00:20:21Guest:Yeah.

00:20:21Guest:So I think it's all part of the dream.

00:20:23Marc:Oh, and the black book, I guess, in dream language, represents her connections.

00:20:28Guest:Yeah.

00:20:29Marc:And why she's where she is.

00:20:31Guest:Why she needs to get gone.

00:20:33Marc:Because in the dream it's... But it also represents that she's at a different level in show business.

00:20:38Guest:Yeah.

00:20:39Guest:Yeah.

00:20:40Marc:But all the gangster characters, the producer characters, these are just bits and pieces of a dying brain?

00:20:46Guest:I think so.

00:20:47Guest:I mean, I think that they represent disappointment and a sense of unfairness.

00:20:52Guest:Lack of control?

00:20:52Guest:A lack of control.

00:20:54Guest:I think that she has a lot of excuses that are a little bit bordering on narcissistic almost.

00:20:59Guest:I think that she wants to believe that Justin Theroux would have preferred her over her friend Camilla if it hadn't been for these...

00:21:08Guest:mysterious producer forces backing him up.

00:21:11Marc:I do like the whole dream story of Justin Theroux.

00:21:14Guest:I love the Justin Theroux storyline.

00:21:16Marc:Billy Ray Cyrus, the pool guy.

00:21:18Guest:He's so perfect as the pool guy.

00:21:20Marc:But there is some pretty good comedy where, you know, the fat thug...

00:21:25Marc:comes in and just throws the light.

00:21:28Marc:The woman on top of her.

00:21:29Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:21:30Marc:And they're all covered in pink paint.

00:21:31Guest:Yeah, I love that.

00:21:33Marc:That was all good.

00:21:33Marc:Because I can see what it buys Lynch in terms of creative space is that if you're dealing with dream time and these bits and pieces of these stories, it gives you a completely blank canvas to do whatever the fuck you want with these certain characters.

00:21:50Marc:And it almost seems that...

00:21:52Marc:Whether or not he dreamt some of the scenarios or not, that the idea that, you know, Justin Theroux's character in the dream space goes and takes his wife's jewelry and then dumps a bunch of pink paint on it.

00:22:04Marc:And then she freaks out and they all end up covering... They're covered with this pink paint in this very kind of sterile environment of that postmodern house.

00:22:13Marc:And then he has to get in his car all covered in paint.

00:22:16Marc:And then end up... I...

00:22:19Marc:Like, I don't know if Lynch dreamed that or it was just impulsive.

00:22:23Guest:Something that happened to him one day.

00:22:25Marc:Not that it happened to him one day.

00:22:26Marc:No, I know.

00:22:26Marc:I'm kidding.

00:22:27Marc:But like, you know, C.K.

00:22:28Marc:used to do, when he would write movies, I could never understand how you could commit to these scripts.

00:22:34Guest:Oh, so you think it was something in the moment that may have happened that day.

00:22:37Marc:Well, no, I just think it's something like that a kind of untethered creative mind will do and you'll script it out.

00:22:43Marc:But most other people would be like, this is silly.

00:22:45Marc:Why would I put this in a movie?

00:22:48Marc:But Lynch is sort of like this came out of me as it stands without editing.

00:22:54Marc:You know, I saw this.

00:22:55Marc:The jewelry was covered in paint.

00:22:57Marc:They got paint on them.

00:22:58Marc:I wanted to use it in the script and I'm not going to question it.

00:23:01Guest:Yeah, that's what I love about him.

00:23:04Guest:You know, sometimes it lands and sometimes it doesn't land.

00:23:06Guest:And I don't give a fuck.

00:23:08Guest:I appreciate that he does it.

00:23:10Guest:There's a joke in Twin Peaks The Return about Mount Rushmore.

00:23:15Guest:I won't get into it, but people have seen it, know which one I'm talking about.

00:23:18Guest:And I fucking died the first time I watched Twin Peaks The Return.

00:23:23Guest:I rewound that scene like three times and just laughed so hard that it was painful because...

00:23:29Guest:Because when I was little, my best friend was my little sister and we spoke in a private language of jokes.

00:23:37Guest:And that was 100 percent the kind of like innocent, weird, nonsensical child joke that we would have come up with at ages eight and five.

00:23:47Guest:And the fact that it was being presented with a budget by an acclaimed director was hysterical and amazing to me.

00:23:54Guest:This man is like working with his inner child in a way that no one else does.

00:23:59Guest:That no one else has the balls to do.

00:24:01Marc:Sure.

00:24:01Marc:And he's working with sort of breaking down that barrier between conscious and unconscious thought.

00:24:07Guest:Yeah.

00:24:08Marc:And but like, tell me, like, so if you've watched it so many times, what are the other revelations?

00:24:14Guest:What are the other revelations?

00:24:15Marc:I mean, like, what is this color code business?

00:24:17Guest:Well, I mean that it's not there's not a whole like series of special colors.

00:24:24Marc:You can't decode this whole movie.

00:24:26Guest:You can't decode the whole movie with the colors, but you have to pay attention to things.

00:24:29Guest:You have to pay attention to the red lamp with the phone underneath it because that leads to some conclusions about Diane shows that twice.

00:24:36Guest:Yeah, he shows that twice.

00:24:37Guest:He shows that in the dream and in reality.

00:24:39Guest:Yeah.

00:24:40Guest:The blue color again.

00:24:42Guest:The light turns blue in the Club Silencio after she has.

00:24:45Marc:What was the Club Silencio business?

00:24:47Marc:Like, why do every Davy Lynch movie?

00:24:49Marc:I got it.

00:24:50Marc:And I don't mind it.

00:24:51Marc:Look, the candy coated clown.

00:24:52Marc:They call a Sandman.

00:24:52Marc:That was all very entertaining.

00:24:54Marc:But why this weird lip syncy drag show ish vaudeville business magic thing?

00:25:02Marc:What do you what do you think that was?

00:25:04Marc:Is that Hollywood?

00:25:05Marc:What is that?

00:25:05Guest:So this is this is my opinion.

00:25:08Guest:This is just me.

00:25:09Guest:This is just Kit.

00:25:11Guest:And it's the middle of the night.

00:25:12Marc:And what's her name has to go.

00:25:14Guest:It's the middle of the night.

00:25:16Guest:They just had they just culminated their kind of romantic interest in one another.

00:25:22Guest:Yeah.

00:25:22Guest:And it's funny because, like, they have sex.

00:25:26Guest:And I think if Betty was a male character, we would have been suspicious of her intentions, like, long before now.

00:25:32Guest:Yeah.

00:25:32Guest:But if you're watching the film for the first time, especially if you're a straight person, this might be a surprise that she suddenly, like, turns her face and pulls Kamala into her and comes on to her in this sexual way.

00:25:44Guest:Yeah.

00:25:44Marc:And she's the instigator.

00:25:45Marc:And at that time, though, the character that we know as Rita does has no idea who she is.

00:25:52Marc:So it seems almost like she's taking advantage of her.

00:25:55Guest:I mean, that's the thing.

00:25:56Guest:If it like in the moment, we're so excited for these two very lovely seeming characters that we don't dwell on it.

00:26:03Guest:But if you actually dwell on it and go back now, all of Betty's previous actions are kind of clouded.

00:26:08Guest:Like, why didn't she take this woman to a hospital for professional care?

00:26:12Guest:It's because she needed for the continuation of the fantasy to have control over Rita, who's really just this shell.

00:26:18Guest:You know, she can't remember anything.

00:26:21Guest:She's oh, OK.

00:26:22Guest:Do you think so, Betty?

00:26:23Marc:But that might also be a comment on who she is in reality.

00:26:26Guest:She needs control over her in reality, but she doesn't have it because she's gaining this fame that she's not getting herself.

00:26:33Marc:Yeah, and also there's the whole scene where she leaves her one opportunity in Hollywood to go help Rita, who is Camilla, figure something out, figure out who she is.

00:26:44Guest:She's really torn between this deep love for Camilla that I think started out in a very genuine way and this desire to have everything that Camilla is starting to get.

00:26:54Marc:So have you slowed down the movie or stopped it on the dream sequence where the two of them come upon the corpse in the apartment that they broke into to see that it is actually Naomi Watts?

00:27:08Yeah.

00:27:08Guest:I don't know who it is.

00:27:10Guest:I don't know what actor they used.

00:27:11Guest:I don't know.

00:27:12Guest:But it's so rotten and dirty that you can't tell in that moment who it is.

00:27:17Marc:And do you feel that the relationship with the woman who she switched departments with was a lover that she forced to move out?

00:27:26Guest:No, no.

00:27:27Guest:I think that in real life, those detectives were starting to get wise to the fact that she may have...

00:27:34Guest:done a contract killing on Kamala Rhodes.

00:27:38Guest:And I think they were coming around to her apartment to ask her.

00:27:40Guest:And so she swapped apartments with a woman to hide.

00:27:44Guest:Because remember, that woman repeatedly says, those detectives came back again.

00:27:47Guest:Those detectives were looking for you.

00:27:49Guest:She seems to be getting calls to her phone.

00:27:52Marc:Wait, so she really did kill Kamala Rhodes?

00:27:54Guest:She really did in real life hire that assassin to kill Kamala Rhodes.

00:27:59Marc:Why can't I remember how Kamala Rhodes dies?

00:28:02Guest:You never see it.

00:28:03Guest:There's a scene in Winkies where she gives her head where she gives Camilla's headshot to the assassin and says, this is the girl.

00:28:09Guest:Right.

00:28:09Guest:And then he shows her a blue key.

00:28:11Guest:It's not the same blue key.

00:28:13Guest:It's a more normal looking blue key, but it's the same exact blue color.

00:28:16Guest:And he says, I'm going to leave this somewhere.

00:28:18Guest:You'll see when the job is done.

00:28:20Guest:And later when she's in her studio apartment, she looks on the coffee table and the key is.

00:28:26Marc:Oh, so that blue key becomes a key to the box in the dream.

00:28:28Guest:It becomes the key to the secret of who is Rita, what happened to Rita.

00:28:35Guest:The secret is that Rita is Kamala, that Diane killed Rita.

00:28:39Marc:So the assumption is that's the key to her apartment?

00:28:42Guest:No.

00:28:43Guest:What?

00:28:43Marc:It's the key to Kamala's apartment.

00:28:45Guest:No.

00:28:46Marc:It's just a key?

00:28:46Marc:It's just a key.

00:28:49Marc:Well, I mean, why that?

00:28:51Guest:That's just what the assassin does.

00:28:52Guest:It's just a symbol that David Lynch wanted to use.

00:28:55Guest:It's just his calling card.

00:28:56Marc:We don't know where he killed her or anything.

00:28:58Guest:We don't know anything about that.

00:29:00Marc:Oh, OK.

00:29:01Marc:Yeah.

00:29:01Marc:So why couldn't it have been the key to her apartment?

00:29:04Marc:I mean, it could have been, but you have no evidence to support that Betty had gotten for him.

00:29:09Guest:He shows it to her and he says, this key, I'm going to I'm going to leave like somewhere when the job is done.

00:29:17Guest:And she asks him, what does it open?

00:29:19Guest:And he laughs and it cuts.

00:29:21Guest:So it's implied that the key is just a symbol.

00:29:23Guest:The key doesn't open anything.

00:29:25Marc:And it becomes this weird kind of almost science fiction.

00:29:27Guest:But in her dream, it becomes a symbol.

00:29:30Marc:Like the weird mystery box.

00:29:32Marc:Yeah.

00:29:33Marc:Well, I mean, now that you really think about it and you start to put it all together, it reads, so much of that stuff is sort of like, what?

00:29:39Marc:Where's the money?

00:29:39Marc:Why is that box in her purse now?

00:29:41Marc:Why is there nothing in her purse now?

00:29:43Marc:Why is there nothing in the box?

00:29:44Guest:It's just fantasy.

00:29:45Guest:She needs to come up with a reason.

00:29:47Marc:Her brain does.

00:29:47Guest:Her brain does.

00:29:48Guest:Her brain needs to come up with things.

00:29:49Marc:This is her interpretation.

00:29:50Marc:Yeah.

00:29:50Guest:Exactly.

00:29:51Guest:And if you want my you asked about the club silencio.

00:29:55Guest:My opinion on that is it happens right after the sex scene.

00:29:59Guest:Rita wakes up saying, you know, no high banda silencio no high banda.

00:30:05Guest:And then Betty says it's OK.

00:30:07Guest:And Rita says, no, it's not OK.

00:30:09Guest:Yeah.

00:30:09Guest:I think at this moment, Rita has sort of begun to awaken to the fact that something is wrong.

00:30:16Guest:Yeah.

00:30:16Guest:And that maybe Betty needs to know that something is wrong.

00:30:21Guest:That it's important that they both understand something.

00:30:24Guest:I think Rita senses that.

00:30:26Guest:And Rita leads them to this place where, you know, this guy is like on this weird stage.

00:30:35Guest:There's velvet curtains, of course, fucking David Lynch.

00:30:37Guest:And he says, no high banda, and yet we hear a band.

00:30:40Guest:If we want to hear a clarinet, and then he, you know, raises his hand to his ears and you hear a clarinet.

00:30:45Guest:And what I think he's trying to say is this is not life.

00:30:48Guest:And yet you're imagining life.

00:30:50Guest:If you want to be Betty, here you're Betty.

00:30:53Guest:He's saying it's all recorded.

00:30:55Guest:And I think that he's trying to this is made up.

00:30:57Guest:This is made up of records.

00:30:59Guest:This is memories.

00:31:00Guest:This is fake.

00:31:01Guest:This isn't here.

00:31:02Marc:So that's a dream.

00:31:02Guest:That's the dream.

00:31:03Guest:And I think it's and it doesn't start until Betty gets to her seat.

00:31:07Guest:It's a demonstration for her.

00:31:10Guest:It's to benefit her or not.

00:31:12Marc:And then she goes into some sort of weird hypnotic seizure.

00:31:14Marc:Yeah.

00:31:14Guest:She starts to wake up and they both have gone through kind of a, I don't know, a trial or right.

00:31:21Guest:They understand that that they need to awaken, you know, on some level, even if they don't totally get that, they understand that they need to awaken.

00:31:32Guest:And then Betty opens her purse next to her and suddenly there's a box that that key goes to.

00:31:37Marc:Right.

00:31:37Guest:And it was never there before.

00:31:39Marc:Right.

00:31:39Marc:OK, so that's it.

00:31:40Marc:Right.

00:31:41Marc:Yeah.

00:31:41Marc:And that's but but she's already had her killed at this point.

00:31:44Guest:But at this point, they're both dead and they both just need to wake up and realize that they're like moments away from doing it.

00:31:52Guest:You know?

00:31:53Marc:Uh-huh.

00:31:53Guest:Yeah.

00:31:54Marc:Okay.

00:31:54Marc:So then let's.

00:31:55Guest:That scene in the theater is so sad once you've seen it because like they're too they're so pretty and they're both like sitting there holding each other and they're both they're both fucking dead.

00:32:04Marc:Yeah.

00:32:05Guest:Yeah.

00:32:05Marc:Well, what about, so what's this, the homeless person who you told me is now in the Nun series?

00:32:11Guest:She's maybe one of the biggest arguments for why this should be classified as a horror movie because this lady almost exclusively does horror movies.

00:32:19Marc:Yeah.

00:32:19Guest:Her name is Bonnie Ahrens, I think.

00:32:22Guest:She has a beautiful natural face that I don't think she's ever done anything to, God bless her, is very angular and interesting.

00:32:28Guest:Yeah.

00:32:28Guest:And a lot of people have chosen to profit off of that in not necessarily kind ways by casting her in horror roles.

00:32:35Marc:Yeah.

00:32:36Marc:She's all over billboards.

00:32:37Guest:Yeah.

00:32:37Guest:She's the nun.

00:32:38Guest:Yeah.

00:32:39Guest:And she's the nun to.

00:32:41Guest:Yeah.

00:32:41Guest:I don't know.

00:32:43Guest:I think she's been the nun in a lot of things.

00:32:45Guest:She was in drag me to hell.

00:32:48Guest:She's you know, she's playing scary people a lot.

00:32:51Marc:She's just covered in soot.

00:32:53Guest:And, like, oil.

00:32:54Guest:Like, her hair is shiny.

00:32:55Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, but it's not... It's just filth.

00:32:59Marc:Yeah, but it's not unusual to see homeless people in that kind of...

00:33:04Marc:Condition.

00:33:04Guest:Yeah.

00:33:05Marc:And she's sort of parked herself behind the dumpster at Winkie's.

00:33:08Guest:Yeah.

00:33:08Marc:And I have to assume that that's a real character.

00:33:11Guest:Yeah.

00:33:11Guest:I think that that's.

00:33:14Guest:So that character, I love her so much.

00:33:16Guest:And I think that you can interpret her a few ways.

00:33:18Guest:And I think one thing to maybe keep in mind about that character is that this started out as a pilot for a Twin Peaks spinoff.

00:33:27Guest:And I think maybe, I'm not positive, but I think maybe that character was initially intended to be something that she's not necessarily in the final cut.

00:33:40Guest:You saw Twin Peaks.

00:33:41Marc:Yeah, but she could be just that if it were a Twin Peaks spinoff.

00:33:44Marc:She could be exactly that character.

00:33:45Guest:She could be exactly that.

00:33:46Guest:I think maybe she's real, but she also exists in a world of dreams.

00:33:50Guest:I think maybe she's like the man from another place in the red room, you know?

00:33:54Guest:Right.

00:33:55Marc:But also she's the possessor of the box that is unlocked after the death.

00:34:01Marc:That is the key to the death.

00:34:03Guest:He's the one who's doing it.

00:34:05Marc:Yeah.

00:34:06Guest:Yeah.

00:34:06Marc:So she represents the dark world.

00:34:09Guest:I think that this character is somehow meant to represent the dark underside of Hollywood.

00:34:17Guest:And of the humanity.

00:34:19Guest:Well, yeah, maybe.

00:34:20Guest:Or maybe of just Los Angeles.

00:34:22Guest:But in either event, I think that she is the physical embodiment of some kind of dark, cruel thing.

00:34:28Guest:And she feeds off this pain that is happening to Diane.

00:34:33Marc:Yeah.

00:34:34Marc:All right.

00:34:34Marc:Well...

00:34:37Marc:I still, like, even with all that exciting interpretation and possibilities, I'm not sure that it'll make me enjoy the movie if I watched it again more.

00:34:47Marc:What?

00:34:47Marc:I'm not saying it's a bad movie.

00:34:49Marc:I'm just saying it seems like a lot of work.

00:34:51Marc:I mean, I imagine you could do the same on Eraserhead on some level.

00:34:57Guest:You know, the weird thing is it's a lot of work to talk about, but it's not a lot of work to just sit and feel.

00:35:02Guest:Like, I knew all that shit before I knew how to explain it to you out loud.

00:35:06Guest:Yeah.

00:35:06Guest:You know what I mean?

00:35:08Marc:But I can watch Eraserhead for a while, but eventually I get fidgety.

00:35:13Marc:But I did notice it when I was watching Mulholland Drive that when she starts playing the real her, the real, would it be Diane?

00:35:23Guest:Diane, yeah.

00:35:23Marc:That like I knew that there was a different frame here.

00:35:26Guest:Yeah.

00:35:27Marc:And one of them was idealized and the other one wasn't.

00:35:30Guest:Yeah.

00:35:31Marc:And that I was in a different realm, which was turns out it was reality.

00:35:36Marc:Yeah.

00:35:37Marc:And she's such a great actress.

00:35:39Marc:She's amazing.

00:35:40Guest:This is kind of what put her on the map.

00:35:42Marc:Yeah.

00:35:42Marc:So, I mean, okay, I feel better about it.

00:35:44Marc:I'm glad of that.

00:35:45Marc:I don't feel like... Well, I definitely missed a lot of things.

00:35:50Guest:Yeah.

00:35:50Marc:Because I wasn't... Like, I missed the key to the movie, which is this is a brain dying.

00:35:56Guest:I mean, look, that's just... No one attached to the film has ever come out and officially said that.

00:36:01Marc:Oh, so this is your read?

00:36:02Guest:That's how I choose to interpret it.

00:36:03Guest:And a lot of people go with, if not a brain dying, they go with a dream theory.

00:36:07Guest:So I find it to be...

00:36:09Marc:Yeah.

00:36:10Marc:Brain dying means it would happen pretty quickly.

00:36:12Marc:Yeah.

00:36:12Marc:Who the hell knows?

00:36:13Guest:Well, I mean, when your brain is dying, I imagine it can, you know, everyone says they see their life flashing before their eyes and they see the whole thing, but it takes like a second.

00:36:21Guest:I imagine that a brain could come up with this in the final.

00:36:23Marc:It's a different time frame.

00:36:24Guest:Yeah.

00:36:25Guest:Yeah.

00:36:27Marc:Well, yeah, I think I tried to work on a joke once that once you start getting nostalgic for the past, that is the beginning of your life flashing before your eyes.

00:36:37Guest:Like that.

00:36:39Marc:You're at a certain age when you're sort of back in the day-ing it.

00:36:42Guest:Yeah.

00:36:43Marc:Yeah, that's the beginning.

00:36:44Guest:Uh-oh.

00:36:45Marc:Yeah.

00:36:45Guest:Someone was watching videos of himself on Conan the other night.

00:36:49Marc:That was a dream.

00:36:50Guest:That was a dream that I had?

00:36:51Marc:Yeah, that's a dream.

00:36:52Guest:That didn't happen?

00:36:53Marc:Well, yeah, but I liked when I showed you.

00:36:54Marc:It was really to prove to you that I was a little heavier at some point.

00:36:57Guest:Yeah.

00:36:57Marc:And then I started watching them, and I said, you don't want to watch these?

00:37:00Marc:She's like, not really.

00:37:01Yeah.

00:37:01Guest:Well, I just was like... You're tired?

00:37:05Guest:I was worried that you were going to go somewhere dark if you kept watching young videos of yourself.

00:37:10Guest:I was trying to nip that in the bud, my friend.

00:37:13Marc:Generally, I was just sort of like, I had it.

00:37:15Marc:I was doing all right.

00:37:16Guest:No, you were cute.

00:37:17Guest:You were cute.

00:37:17Guest:Your hair wasn't as cute, but you were cute.

00:37:19Marc:I was full of the beans.

00:37:20Guest:You were.

00:37:20Guest:You were very jazzy.

00:37:23Marc:All right.

00:37:23Marc:So what happens now?

00:37:24Marc:Do I got to watch more?

00:37:25Marc:Oh, wait.

00:37:26Marc:What?

00:37:26Marc:What about the old couple?

00:37:27Marc:Yeah, what about them?

00:37:29Marc:Why do they, in your dream language, why do they end up these little annoying people that sort of like are there, you know, like pushing her into the bedroom almost to shoot herself?

00:37:42Guest:Yeah.

00:37:43Guest:I mean, I don't totally know who the little people are supposed to be in the real world.

00:37:47Guest:Maybe they're her dead aunt and uncle back in Deep River, Ontario.

00:37:52Guest:Maybe they really are kind people that she met on her flight to Los Angeles before she became this terrible, sad person.

00:38:00Guest:But I think that by the end of the film, what they represent...

00:38:04Guest:is the hope and naivete that she had when first arriving in Los Angeles and the hope that maybe others had for her.

00:38:14Guest:Because, you know, the first time we meet them is at the airport.

00:38:17Guest:Wishing her luck.

00:38:17Guest:And they're being ridiculously sweet.

00:38:19Guest:And then they drive off with that weird, steely smile.

00:38:23Guest:And the woman, like, does that unnatural, like...

00:38:26Marc:Mm hmm.

00:38:27Guest:And the man, you know, like there's something wrong.

00:38:30Marc:Another one is we've got another one.

00:38:32Guest:Yeah.

00:38:33Guest:I don't think that David Lynch intended this.

00:38:36Guest:But what they remind me of.

00:38:38Guest:Yeah.

00:38:39Guest:Have you seen A Christmas Carol, Mr. My Friend, Mr. Non-Christian?

00:38:43Marc:Which one?

00:38:44Guest:Anyone?

00:38:44Marc:Yeah.

00:38:45Guest:Do you remember the little kids that hide under the ghost of Christmas present?

00:38:48Marc:No.

00:38:49Guest:So at the end of the Ghost of Christmas Presents time, he opens up his robes and there's a little pair of a boy and a girl.

00:38:56Guest:Yeah.

00:38:57Guest:And he warns Scrooge to beware of them.

00:38:59Guest:He says, this boy is ignorance.

00:39:00Guest:This girl is want.

00:39:02Guest:Symbolically, they give me that same feel.

00:39:05Guest:I'm not saying that David Lynch is referencing that in any way, but they remind me of that just personally.

00:39:10Guest:But I think that they represent like all of her naive hopes and dreams that she had.

00:39:15Guest:And I think that she's in the end like always.

00:39:17Guest:overwhelmed by the the crushing despair of like that diane compared to i mean she's become a murderer yeah yeah yeah all right well that's a that's a good read sounds like you've uh you put a lot of work into it thank you and i promise never to walk past david lynch's house again unless he like needs his lawn mowed or just wants to have coffee anything like that to let you move in no no no no no no i i don't like living with other people fine

00:39:46Marc:all right we'll figure out another movie I can't imagine David Lynch being around my cats oh really talking to him do an impression you know who did an impression of David Lynch on the show who the Marilyn Manson oh really before the fall shit does a good does a good David Lynch Nicolas Cage does a good Lynch yeah yeah

00:40:17Marc:Oh, wait, wait.

00:40:21Marc:Before we... Now, wasn't there some story...

00:40:27Marc:About David Lynch and that Denny's was by your old house?

00:40:33Guest:Yeah, the Winkie's Diner.

00:40:34Marc:Wait, so that was the Winkie's?

00:40:36Marc:Yeah.

00:40:36Marc:Oh, you're saying that the Winkie's in Mulholland Drive is based on that Denny's?

00:40:42Guest:The Sunset Gower Denny's at the Gower Gulch in Hollywood, yeah.

00:40:46Marc:How do you get that information?

00:40:48Marc:Yeah.

00:40:48Guest:I don't know because, like, I'm a fucking freak.

00:40:50Guest:And I first like the early drafts of the Mulholland Drive script are available to read online if you want to do that.

00:40:57Guest:And it's a Denny's in the script.

00:40:59Guest:I just don't think they got the rights.

00:41:00Guest:But I know that David Lynch has mentioned in, like, an interview or at some point that that Denny's was the basis for the Winkies diner because it has a dark energy.

00:41:10Guest:Yeah.

00:41:10Marc:But was he like a regular there?

00:41:11Guest:I don't know if he was a regular there, but I think he ate there one time and there were like some neo-Nazis in another booth or something like that.

00:41:19Guest:And he just got a bad vibe.

00:41:22Marc:I think you told me that like driving by it like at least once.

00:41:25Guest:The evil Denny's.

00:41:26Marc:Dark Denny's.

00:41:27Marc:Dark Denny's.

00:41:29Marc:From the David Lynch experience?

00:41:31Guest:I lived two blocks from that Denny's for two and a half years.

00:41:35Marc:And you never went in?

00:41:36Guest:I love Denny's.

00:41:37Guest:I never went in though.

00:41:39Marc:See the power, the power that David Lynch has over you?

00:41:43Guest:I didn't want to meet the bum.

00:41:45Marc:In the back?

00:41:45Marc:In the back.

00:41:47Marc:Oh, I wonder if that couldn't have been part of it.

00:41:50Guest:No.

00:41:51Guest:They shot it somewhere else.

00:41:52Marc:But it does feel like a Denny's now that you mentioned it.

00:41:54Guest:Yeah.

00:41:55Guest:Oh, totally.

00:41:56Marc:Winky's does.

00:41:56Guest:Yeah.

00:41:57Guest:The booths.

00:41:58Marc:Yeah.

00:41:59Marc:Oh, my God.

00:42:00Marc:It's amazing you didn't go in there just because, I mean, you took it as a warning and it somehow transcended your fascination with all things Lynch.

00:42:09Marc:Yeah.

00:42:09Guest:Yeah.

00:42:11Guest:Then I didn't go in there.

00:42:12Guest:I was afraid.

00:42:15Marc:All right.

00:42:17Marc:Well, that's a good story to close on.

00:42:34Marc:Boomer lives.