BONUS The Friday Show - Thanksgiving Survivors
Marc:This like pathetic high risk maneuver by one man gag.
Guest:That was his move.
Guest:Like he, that was his finisher.
Guest:He would jump on you from the top rope.
Marc:So if he misses the finisher, is it also a finisher on him?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's the crazy thing.
Guest:It's like the absence of a person suddenly makes this devastating.
Guest:You'd think that with no person laying there, that's nicer.
Guest:That's like a nicer landing.
Yeah.
Marc:All right, Chris.
Marc:Brendan, you ready to hear an embarrassing story?
Guest:Yes, you've got the floor.
Guest:It's yours.
Guest:We told everyone last week that you had another story, much like your Park Slope food co-op banning, that would be good to tease out.
Guest:So we teased it last week, and now here you are with your one talent, your talent for embarrassing situations...
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That wind up bringing you great future material to tell when you have an audience.
Guest:So here you are.
Guest:The microphone is yours.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So Thanksgiving 2012.
Marc:I am by myself in China on purpose.
Marc:I didn't accidentally go there.
Marc:No one left me.
Marc:I wanted to go see China.
Marc:But I also wanted to have some Peking duck for my Thanksgiving dinner because, you know, I am an American.
Marc:Duck is just like turkey.
Marc:By the way, I just want to say when I was in Egypt, I also sought out a bird of some sort.
Marc:I ate pigeon in Egypt on Thanksgiving.
Marc:Sucked.
Marc:It was all bony.
Marc:But as I was eating it, I was like, yeah, that's right, pigeon.
Marc:I got the last fucking laugh.
Marc:It's every New Yorker's dream.
Marc:Yes, that's right.
Marc:Just scarfing down your carcass, you dumb bird.
Marc:Anyway, I'm in China.
Marc:I've looked up, I've researched my ass off about the best Peking duck ever.
Marc:restaurant in Beijing.
Marc:And I make my way there.
Marc:It's in like this huge building, like the 12th floor of like a 50 store, like, you know, skyscraper.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:A fancy place.
Marc:I asked for a table for one, which I admit is odd.
Marc:I get it, but they, they oblige.
Marc:They sit me in this big, beautiful booth, like a big booth that you see like, like eight people in.
Marc:And it's just me there.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So I'm flipping through their enormous like cheesecake factory type menu where, you know, it's like goes on forever because I think it goes in Chinese, then it goes back, you know, to English, same thing.
Marc:So I just wanted the Peking duck, right?
Marc:So Peking duck, I point to it because no one speaks English.
Marc:So the Peking duck, by the way, Peking duck's enough for like three, four people.
Marc:So, you know, that's like enough food, right?
Marc:Well, I point to the duck
Marc:And, uh, and like, you know, hand the menu back and the, and the waitress like opens the menu back up.
Marc:She's like, no, no, no.
Marc:Like she, you know, she says you have to choose more, more.
Marc:So I'm like, well, you know, and like, I don't want to be rude.
Marc:So, you know, she flips to some pages.
Marc:She's like more and like, okay.
Marc:So I, I choose one thing and she's like more, more.
Marc:It's like, okay.
Marc:I'm like, all right, these are probably, you know, appetizers.
Marc:So I'm like, yeah, sure.
Marc:This one.
Marc:And like, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And this one too.
Marc:Great.
Marc:So she seems satisfied.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Great.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:So I, uh, I'm waiting for the food and everything.
Marc:It's a fancy place.
Marc:You know, I kind of feel a little uncomfortable for, you know, being all by myself, but it's fine.
Marc:So the food comes out.
Marc:And it's an ungodly amount of food, Brendan.
Marc:Like, it's too much food.
Marc:Like, my big booth that could have housed eight people, right?
Marc:It's filled with food, dude.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:They're all entrees that I have pointed to.
Marc:And now I'm expected to eat somehow.
Marc:But dude, this was a bummer.
Marc:Like, you know, I'm just there.
Marc:I just want to eat my Peking duck.
Marc:I feel duped, honestly.
Marc:I feel like they suckered me into this.
Marc:I think that that was probably part of it.
Marc:Right?
Marc:So I'm, you know, I'm eating my duck and it's great, by the way, juicy, just like fantastic, best duck I've ever had.
Marc:I took a few bites of the other stuff and thinking like, oh, maybe I'll make a dent or maybe, you know, I'll just bring stuff home.
Marc:But dude, it was like, it was literally, it would be like me carrying like four big bags of home with me.
Marc:Like it just, just did not seem at all doable.
Marc:The bill came and it was it was an astronomical amount, man.
Marc:It was it was like, oh, oh, no, this is this is a lot of money.
Marc:I made a terrible mistake.
Marc:Again, all I wanted was this Peking duck.
Marc:OK, so I made a decision.
Marc:I would pay double my duck and I would also put in a tip and then I would make a run for it.
Marc:I would dine and dash in communist China.
Marc:What could possibly go wrong, dude?
Guest:I also love that you're like still paying for a giant portion of the bill, but running for your life.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, again, I know I'm in China.
Marc:I'm by myself.
Marc:And like this is – who knows?
Marc:Like if I crossed my napkin the wrong way, I don't know.
Marc:Maybe I'd get in trouble.
Marc:So by the way, you're not supposed to put chopsticks down.
Marc:uh, like in, like stick them up in your rice.
Marc:Like I read this, you know, like before I was like, Oh, if you're, if you're using chopsticks, do not just stick them into your rice and then, you know, go about the rest of your plate.
Marc:So I knew this and in a different meal, that's the first thing I did for some reason.
Marc:I don't know why, but I was just like, Oh, where's my, where's my camera?
Marc:And I, I just stuck my chopsticks in the, in the rice.
Marc:Anyway.
Guest:What happens then?
Guest:They come take the rice away?
Guest:No, it's just frowned upon.
Guest:A custom, I see.
Guest:I thought it was like a signal.
Guest:I thought it was like, you know, putting the light on on the airplane.
Guest:You know, come over here, please.
Guest:Right, no, no.
Guest:It's just... It's not like the thing on the mailbox that you have to like, you turn it up.
Guest:I got mail here.
Marc:It's just you being like a stupid American.
Marc:Don't be a stupid American.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's like go to Japan and people are like dunking whole pieces of sushi grade tuna into soy sauce.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Don't be that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, at this point, I'm clocking the elevator because I want to, like, time my exit.
Marc:Oh, man, you're like the killer.
Marc:You're, like, counting down the seconds before it closes.
Marc:I'm exactly like the killer, my friend.
Marc:Because...
Marc:I time it out perfectly.
Marc:So I throw my cash down and head to the doors and I get to the elevator and the elevator doors close on my face.
Marc:So just like the killer, I mistimed it.
Marc:And now I'm stuck there on the 12th floor of this building and we're just waiting, pressing the button, hoping the elevator opens back up.
Marc:Wait, wait, wait.
Guest:But so it's not opening up.
Guest:And you've put the money down.
Guest:Where is the waitstaff?
Guest:Have they gone to your table yet?
Marc:Not yet.
Marc:But I do see the waitress making her way from the kitchen and in my table's direction.
Marc:And I am panicking.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:This is like the suspense of like a Paul Greengrass movie.
Guest:Like those ones where he like puts you out like green zone.
Guest:We're like, you are there.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So I'm panicking, dude.
Marc:I'm at the elevator.
Marc:I see that there's the stairs and I just make a run for it.
Marc:I open the stairs and I am going down these stairs, this stairwell, 12 floors.
Marc:I'm running and running down these stairs.
Guest:Thank God this was 12 years ago or whatever.
Guest:You'd have so many broken limbs right now.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That and security cameras everywhere would have been like, I wouldn't be able to make it out of the country.
Marc:But I'm running down these stairs and I'm counting the floors, right?
Marc:Because all the signage is in Chinese.
Marc:There's no like four or five, six.
Marc:So I'm counting down the floors and I make it to what I think is the lobby.
Marc:And it is not the lobby.
Yeah.
Marc:It is like an empty room that has no lights except for the emergency lights.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I forgot to tell you.
Guest:They have two sixth floors in China.
Guest:Every Chinese building has 667.
Guest:You should have read that before you went.
Marc:So I am now I'm like wandering around this hallway.
Marc:I'm trying to like, well, is there, maybe I can get to the elevator.
Marc:I couldn't find the elevator that would, that should be right there.
Guest:Are you at this moment thinking that like the, the, the perimeter is being secured and you're like, like, like the walls are going up around the building.
Guest:You're now trapped inside this fortress.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I am sweating.
Guest:I am like, I am going to die here.
Marc:And that wasn't just a peaking duck.
Marc:You were sweating just actual sweat.
Marc:So it's at this point that I'm, I'm honestly, I'm like the U S marshals in the fugitive trying to get out from under the dam.
Marc:Ooh,
Marc:We're never getting out of this place.
Marc:So I actually do make it out.
Marc:I go up a floor.
Marc:Anyway, I end up on the main lobby where I'm passing the security guards, acting like nothing's happening.
Marc:And honestly, I thought I was so ready to make another run forward, thinking that for sure they were going to stop me or the elevator would bing –
Marc:And the waitress would be running after me.
Marc:But no, I made it out of there, escaped into the night with my belly full of Peking duck.
Marc:But yeah, that is my stupid, annoying story, embarrassing story about me almost getting arrested in communist China.
Guest:Well, you know what I think, though, dude, now hearing the full details of that, I knew the vague outlines of that from you telling me you had to dine and dash in China.
Guest:But the fact that you paid money, I bet you they half-heartedly tried to...
Guest:get you you know oh where'd that guy go he didn't he underpaid right no and maybe they looked a little bit right but i can't imagine they cared that much you paid so like i didn't pay a like like there was it was a ton well okay but they also probably knew that they were like suckering you quite a bit by getting you to continue ordering things right and you know they cut their losses just as much as you did
Marc:Right.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:But I was still nervous because they could they could just do anything.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:They you know, they're they could be like, no, he's in the wrong.
Guest:Also, we grew up with that kid in where was it?
Guest:Thailand who like, you know, got his ass caned.
Guest:I should reiterate that we did not grow up with that kid.
Guest:I just mean that we were aware of that.
Guest:Tom, how can you say that about Tommy?
Guest:There's, there's definitely the feeling of like, when you're in another country, like all bets are off, you have to be careful, but like, you're never going to change who you are.
Guest:So it's totally in character for you to do that.
Guest:I'm glad your one talent reared its head again, even when you're halfway across the globe.
Guest:And I'm also glad that you have not made a tradition out of that, going to foreign territories on Thanksgiving and getting into a potential scrape with the law.
Marc:We'll see.
Marc:I'm in London.
Marc:I'll be in London when everyone hears this.
Guest:Oh, as this is happening.
Marc:This may or may not be the last time you hear from me.
Yeah.
Guest:Going to dine and dash on those bangers and mash.
Marc:I might say something crappy about their king.
Marc:I mean, their king.
Guest:I think they say stuff crappy about their king.
Guest:But it may be they're able to say it and you're not.
Guest:Like, it might be one of those things.
Guest:You know, we can say the king word.
Guest:You cannot.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, so when we were younger, though, we weren't traveling anywhere.
Guest:We were stuck at home with our families on Thanksgiving.
Guest:And one thing that happened for young wrestling fans like us was back in 1987, something was invented called the Survivor Series.
Guest:Now, if you heard us talking about this last week, this, you know, we we we already explained we're going to kind of do the whole rest of the episode about this today.
Guest:So if you join us on the Friday show and you're not usually like into the wrestling stuff, just fair warning.
Guest:That's the rest of this.
Guest:However, I do think there's enough here that hopefully will entertain you, even if you don't, as Gorilla Monsoon says, no, a wrist lock from a wristwatch.
Marc:So it's a happening, Brendan.
Guest:It's happening.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:It's a happening.
Guest:So let's get into the backstory of this for a second, because Thanksgiving 1987.
Guest:Do you know what was on pay-per-view that day?
Marc:The Survivor Series.
Guest:Not at first.
Marc:At first... Oh, was it... This is a Starrcade?
Guest:NWA Starrcade was running on pay-per-view, scheduled on pay-per-view on Thanksgiving night, 1987.
Guest:And this is 1987, the same year WWF runs WrestleMania III.
Guest:At that point, the most successful pay-per-view in history, which was very early in the medium.
Guest:And it is also...
Guest:you know, an inflection point for WWF.
Guest:It's now hitting untold levels of popularity.
Guest:So, of course, there will be another WrestleMania the following year, but there's no other pay-per-view.
Guest:That was it, WrestleMania.
Guest:Well, Survivor Series, all of a sudden, I remember this.
Guest:I remember watching the weekend shows, you know, syndicated WWF shows, Superstars of Wrestling, Wrestling Challenge.
Guest:And there would be these bumper cards coming in from commercial.
Guest:And it was just a ring with ominous music.
Guest:And then the word Survivor Series would come up.
Guest:And it was probably Vince's voice, now that I'm thinking about it.
Guest:But it was almost vocal distorted.
Guest:And it was like, this Thanksgiving night, witness the Survivor Series.
Guest:Whoa, what the fuck is that?
Guest:Survivor Series.
Guest:Well, it soon becomes clear that this is going to be their second pay-per-view of the year.
Guest:And the reason they did it was they created it directly to go head-to-head with Starrcade.
Guest:And Vince told the cable companies...
Guest:If you carry Starrcade, I will not let you have WrestleMania 4 in the spring.
Guest:And as ridiculous as that is, the most anti-competitive thing, so many cable companies...
Guest:bought it bought his threat and did not carry starcade because by the way he would not be able to like okay what if they do buy starcade what he's really going to there were some cable companies that said fuck this guy we're gonna air both of them people would buy whatever they want and he aired wrestlemania on them so it was an idol threat that meant nothing and
Guest:He's the fucking worst.
Guest:And yeah, it was a major detriment to NWA and to the Starrcade pay-per-view.
Guest:There was revenge taken then against Vince the following year.
Guest:So...
Guest:That WrestleMania four that Vince threatened would not show up on cable companies.
Guest:NWA runs on free cable.
Guest:Well, you know, pay cable, not pay per view.
Guest:They run the clash of the champions the same night as WrestleMania four.
Guest:And it does hurt the WrestleMania four buy rate.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:And what wound up happening after that was the cable companies got on both Vince and Crockett promotions and they were like, you assholes better stop this shit because you're hurting our business.
Guest:And so, yes, those things were not allowed to happen again by decree of the cable companies.
Guest:You wrestling hooligans can have whatever war you want.
Guest:but don't bring us into it.
Guest:And so, so that stopped there, but, but definitely survivor series was the opening salvo of that.
Guest:Uh, that being said, what it wound up creating was, uh, you know, a very strong tradition that, that WWF would run on Thanksgiving or Thanksgiving Eve from 1987 through 1994.
Guest:And, uh, I don't know what were your memories of this, Chris, because I'm,
Guest:I did not actually have cable until 1993.
Guest:And so what was interesting about Survivor Series for me was I would always wind up watching it when, when we got it at the video store.
Guest:And then because it was Thanksgiving that it was on every year, I would have gotten the one from the year before and,
Guest:recorded a copy of it.
Guest:Cause I always did that.
Guest:I taped the wrestling videos from the video store onto blank tapes.
Guest:And then I would watch last year's on Thanksgiving, like as my Thanksgiving tradition.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:That,
Marc:that's great yeah i i my house never uh bought the survivor series for me the survivor series the just the idea of it uh like that is what i personally love like it is my imagination that i love like i love the idea of a mega team up you know when they you know and then like they're facing off against some mega bad team amazing but
Guest:Also, because they built all the wrestling for the previous four or five weeks around it.
Guest:So you're watching the show week in, week out.
Guest:And this is all very tantalizing to you that on Thanksgiving, these guys are all going to be on a team together.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like for me, though, it was like, oh, like this is what I do in my basement, you know, with my toy ring and my action figures.
Marc:Like, oh, Macho Man's looking for a tag.
Marc:Who's it going to be?
Marc:It's He-Man.
Marc:He's going for the power of Grayskull, but, you know, like that's like what I would do.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:The Survivor Series for me was never something I would watch live, like ever.
Marc:My family did not watch wrestling.
Marc:I would go to my friend's house and watch his tape of it.
Marc:So it would be like today on Black Friday, I would be going over to my friend's house and watching Survivor Series.
Marc:What he just taped.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, the one he just taped.
Marc:And then he would also buy all of them.
Marc:And so that was the other thing about Survivor Series.
Marc:The real joy of it was always the poster in the box.
Marc:The back of the VHS.
Marc:Dude, it was the best.
Marc:There are teams with these names, like the Ultimate Warriors.
Marc:Amazing.
Guest:Love it.
Guest:It's just his team's name, the Ultimate Warriors.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That one, that one stands out because all the other teams are like these clever names about like the guy's gimmicks.
Guest:So like, you know, the big boss man, his team is called like the enforcers, right?
Guest:Cause he's like a prison guard, right?
Guest:Or, uh, the rude brood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Rick Rude's team.
Guest:Rude's brood.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But the ultimate warrior, who's just a fucking maniac.
Guest:His team's just the ultimate warriors.
Guest:It'd be like if Hogan's team was the Hulk Hogan's.
Marc:It basically was, by the way.
Guest:It was the Hulkamaniacs.
Marc:Yeah, sure, sure.
Guest:That team, give me a fucking break.
Guest:We should make clear to people who don't know that what we're talking about in terms of teams was that every match initially on the Survivor Series, it changed once they hit around the year 1991.
Guest:But initially, the entire card was made up of tag team matches, multi-person tag team matches, where you'd have like four or five
Guest:partners per team and the idea was everybody got eliminated one at a time it was not like one fall to the finish it was an elimination uh match each match and so uh this was you know for
Guest:People who grew up watching this stuff on the weekends, you know, like me, Saturday mornings, Sunday mornings.
Guest:And it was always like, you know, squash matches.
Guest:And you rarely saw the main guys fight.
Guest:You'd have to pay your ticket and go to the local house shows to see those things happen.
Guest:This was not only getting to see the big name guys fight each other.
Guest:he was getting to see the big name guys team up with each other when they never do at other times.
Guest:Like this first Survivor Series, 1987, it had Ricky Steamboat and Macho Man on the same team.
Guest:Six months earlier, you have WrestleMania three and the two of those guys had one of the biggest matches of all time.
Guest:And now they're teamed up.
Guest:It was like everything you're saying, your imagination, anything you could dream up in the world of wrestling would happen on this magical night.
Marc:Yes, like the Legion of Doom and the Ultimate Warrior and the Texas Tornado all on a team.
Guest:Which, if you were hip to wrestling, right?
Guest:So the Legion of Doom came from the NWA where they were the Road Warriors.
Guest:And Kerry Von Erich came from World Class Championship Wrestling in Texas, his dad's promotion, where he was the modern day warrior.
Marc:Oh, no kidding.
Guest:So it was...
Guest:These four warriors get to team up for the first time.
Guest:Oh man, that's awesome.
Guest:I have to rewatch that now.
Guest:So yeah, so that was always what was great about it.
Guest:Then starting in 1989, they started putting this thing on USA Network to sell you on the pay-per-view to hype you up.
Guest:It was called the Survivor Series Showdown and they would take one guy from each team and have one-on-one matches leading up to the event.
Marc:Oh, so great.
Marc:awesome.
Marc:Like some really great stuff.
Marc:Like I would tape this and that would also be a tradition, man.
Marc:I loved this stuff so much.
Marc:All right.
Guest:So we, we, we have firmly established that this winds up being, you know, a big part of our Thanksgivings from, you know, the late eighties through the early nineties.
Guest:Uh, definitely for me right up through when they stopped doing it on the Thanksgiving weekend.
Guest:But I know you Chris had, uh, have some affinity for the main event, uh,
Guest:Of the very first Survivor Series.
Guest:Care to tell people about that?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:The main event of the inaugural Survivor Series.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a happening.
Marc:Yes, it is.
Marc:I mean, that was... Was that a saying that your family said?
Marc:It's a happening?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, it was something you could tell Gorilla Monsoon would say when he needed to fill a mental gap.
Guest:You know, it was like an um or a, you know, like it was just a placeholder.
Guest:And so anytime something came up, he'd say, ah, it's a happening.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, yeah, it was a happening where it was a Survivor Series match with a team that consisted of Rick Rude, Butch Reed, King Kong Bundy.
Marc:One man gang and Andre the Giant facing off against a team that is the Bam Bam Bigelow, Ken Patera, Don Morocco, and Mr. Wonderful Paul Orndorff.
Marc:All great bad guys, by the way, all these guys.
Marc:And your captain, Hulk Hogan.
Marc:this was the main event.
Marc:Like this was what you wanted to see.
Marc:It was Andre versus Hulk.
Marc:Like this is, this is like big deal stuff.
Guest:Like this was the first time they were going to be even near each other since WrestleMania three too.
Guest:That was the other thing.
Marc:So the guys throw to Team Hogan.
Marc:And I just got to say, these Survivor Series backstage interviews over the years, they're like just this raucous event.
Marc:Like you'll see Mean Gene there.
Marc:And it's just like he's in a bar fight.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:These guys are just screaming.
Guest:They weren't trying to get anything across.
Guest:They're just supposed to look like a bunch of insane lunatics.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yes, they're yelling.
Marc:Hogan is pacing around and pushes Bam Bam Bigelow.
Marc:And, you know, just like, just like as if like, hey, pick up the fucking energy.
Marc:Also, Hogan is wearing this ridiculous Hulkamaniacs headband with these tassels that are covering his eyes.
Marc:It's like the worst look.
Marc:It is ridiculous.
Marc:Ridiculous.
Marc:do you know the backstory of this?
Marc:Did he do this?
Guest:Like, I don't think there's a backstory.
Guest:I think it's just like, it's very eighties looking.
Guest:It's like, I thought it looks cool.
Marc:Speaking of eighties, man, Kogan cuts a promo with mean gene.
Marc:And then, and he's, his, his,
Marc:like his whole body is basically turned away from the camera he's like yeah looking at guys is their director there is somebody to redirect this thing but dude he ends the promo and he turns towards the camera and he looks so fucking high he turns and he's
Marc:He took a big hit, and he's just smiling and turning, pivoting, so that Mean Gene can talk to other people.
Marc:It is weird.
Marc:It's like the weirdest shot I've ever seen.
Marc:But yeah, so Hogan's team comes out.
Marc:But this Ken Patera guy has this really old-looking arm guard on his arm.
Guest:Yeah, well, he was injured at the time, and he had a weird-looking arm guard.
Guest:But also, he's weird-looking.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Ken Patera look like... My mom used to have the... At that same era, she had the Jane Fonda workout tapes.
Guest:This guy looks like a lady from Jane Fonda's workout, but on steroids, right?
Marc:Yes, and plucked onto wrestling.
Guest:Just so out of place.
Guest:And he's got the weird, permed, teased hair...
Guest:And like a kind of almost bathing suit.
Guest:Like his thing was he was an Olympic powerlifter.
Guest:So they were always pushing this like Olympian Ken Patera thing.
Guest:You want to know the real backstory of Ken Patera?
Guest:What's that?
Guest:So he went to jail a couple years prior to this.
Guest:And it was because he and another wrestler had some fight with cops outside of McDonald's.
Guest:Like, they threw a rock through the McDonald's window.
Guest:And then when the cops came, they fought the cops.
Guest:So he went to shoot jail for, like, two years, I think.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Like, he, like, went away.
Guest:And...
Guest:During his time away, I only found this out years later, like reading through back catalogs of the Wrestling Observer.
Guest:He was on the payroll of WWF the whole time.
Guest:They continuously sent checks to his house while he was in jail.
Guest:Why would you do that?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Why?
Guest:It was clearly hush money, right?
Guest:Oh, I don't talk.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Do not agree.
Guest:If anybody comes to you about like, hey, how much steroid nonsense is going on at that WWF?
Guest:Do not open your mouth.
Guest:Do not say anything.
Guest:So he was paid the whole time.
Guest:And when he got out and was terrible, like there was, he had no charisma.
Guest:Like the time, it was two years.
Guest:It might as well have been 20 years.
Guest:Time had passed this guy by and they tried to have an angle with him against Bobby Heenan, who was his former manager.
Guest:And the way that they were presenting it was like, oh, Heenan abandoned him when he went to jail.
Guest:And now he's paid his debt to society and he's back.
Guest:And Bobby is, you know, a jerk to him or whatever.
Guest:It didn't work.
Guest:It was not over.
Guest:He was not physically over.
Guest:As you see, he was injured here.
Guest:He barely does anything in the match.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He was just given a push back.
Guest:as a return favor for keeping his mouth shut while he was in the clink.
Marc:Amazing.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Un-fucking-believable.
Marc:Very 80s wrestling.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:What just degenerates.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So, that's happening.
Marc:Also, like, there's a guy called The Rock.
Marc:So, The Rock's in this match.
Marc:The Rock, yes.
Marc:Don Morocco.
Marc:Yeah, Don Morocco, which is just jarring to hear.
Marc:The crowd just jumps for joy at their scumbag, at Hulk Hogan walking down with his humongous American flag on a giant flagpole.
Marc:It's like the one that Superman flies to the White House in Superman 2.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:It's ridiculous.
Marc:So he wraps himself in the flag.
Marc:We get the old WWF heavyweight belt, though.
Marc:That looks fucking cool.
Marc:And so Hogan's doing his posing.
Marc:I do, I honestly think he looks really good here, like naturally good.
Marc:He doesn't look like steroided out.
Marc:So, you know, he still has a little bit of hair.
Marc:Like he has like a tussle more hair.
Marc:So he looks great.
Marc:He's looking good.
Marc:So it's the nicest thing you've ever said about Hulk Hogan.
Marc:But so Jesse and Gorilla mentioned that, oh, there's this guy, Joey Morella is refereeing and the body can't stand him.
Marc:And I totally agree.
Marc:This guy fucking sucks.
Guest:Well, the storyline they're paying off there is that he's the one from the Hulk Andre match at WrestleMania 3.
Guest:So Jesse's always giving him shit about the fact that he miscounted the three count, right?
Guest:That was the whole story, making Bobby say he's the uncrowned champion, right?
Guest:The other thing is...
Guest:Jesse would constantly talk about how Joey Morella sucks and how he's terrible and how, how can anybody listen to this guy?
Guest:Because he was Gorilla Monsoon's son.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's insane.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So it's a rib on Gorilla the whole time.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I didn't know that.
Marc:Dude, this guy, and I implore you all to watch this match.
Marc:This guy is the quickest three count in the West.
Yeah.
Guest:i have never seen three counts this fast like he had he had a get to a get to a flight or something it was it was just bizarre well i bet you there is something to that that they were told like you know this is only their like second or third time on pay-per-view right and it's like if you are late like if you miss your cutoff the thing's just gonna end like that's right and people were paid their money they're gonna get a show that goes off the air without seeing the finish so like yeah i bet they were running at a clip here yeah i gotcha
Marc:So pretty quickly, Hogan eliminates Buck Reid.
Marc:Again, the fastest three count you'll ever see.
Marc:And the crowd goes nuts for this.
Marc:And so does Hogan, honestly.
Marc:He acts like he just won the match.
Marc:He's up there like an idiot, raising both his hands above his head like he's the fake champion he is.
Marc:And it's in this moment, Hogan double high fives Ken Patera and then double low fives him.
Marc:And the ref sees this and declares that, hey, this is a tag.
Marc:It's a legal tag.
Marc:And, you know, you got to sit out.
Guest:And obviously- And Patera comes in.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, but no, but obviously it is.
Marc:Patera does not come in just yet.
Marc:Hogan is furious about this because he's an idiot.
Marc:Like, oh my God, this great indignity that I cannot be back in here.
Guest:And it's because Andre is coming in on the other side.
Guest:So Andre is coming in.
Guest:Hogan has high-fived and low-fived one of his teammates, which makes that teammate legal now.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:They tell him, you have to get out of the ring.
Guest:And yes, Hogan pitches a fit.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:This great indignity.
Guest:Hey, here's an idea.
Guest:Tag yourself back in.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Go under the rope.
Marc:Tag yourself back in, you idiot.
Guest:He acted like he was being sent home for the week.
Marc:Yes.
Yes.
Marc:Can I tell you, he is such a piece of garbage.
Marc:Like, this is honestly the start of the American decline, okay?
Marc:This person right here is the reason why, like, for all of the follies that America has, it's because of this guy right here.
Marc:It's all Hokage fought.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So...
Marc:Andre immediately tags out to King Kong Bundy.
Marc:Yeah, he's another one.
Guest:He's like, Andre, you're in.
Guest:Why don't you just beat up Ken Patera?
Guest:Like, what's wrong with that?
Guest:Why do you have to tag out or just stand there and say to Ken Patera, no, I'd like to fight Hulk Hogan, please turn around and tag him.
Guest:What is going on?
Marc:Even as a child, I was like, this is a bit much, guys.
Marc:Like, what are we doing?
Marc:So something happens in this match that I personally will not appreciate until years later, when you and I actually went to our first AEW show.
Marc:The crowd at this show, at this event, starts chanting, Andre sucks.
Marc:And that's the first time I can honestly recall a crowd chanting like that.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Now, I love hot crowds, and I especially love 80s crowds.
Marc:I'm always looking, especially since I've rewatched this hundreds of times.
Marc:And they're so into it.
Marc:Yes, but I love looking and picking people out.
Marc:You get a little kid no bigger than Owen chanting, Andre sucks.
Marc:You got a Mr. Rogers looking guy looking like he's watching an opera, just calmly enjoying the festivities.
Marc:Below him are a couple of women who are laughing while chanting, Andre sucks.
Marc:And that, my friend, that is the magic of wrestling right there.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:When you go to a wrestling event...
Marc:Yes, you will have a good time.
Marc:Yes, you will see incredible feats of strength, right?
Marc:But you will, if you allow it to take you in, you will end up chanting for something with thousands of other fans that never in your life you would have imagined you'd do.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You are an active participant.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's what these women are experiencing.
Marc:And that's what I felt when I went to an AEW live show.
Marc:I've experienced it.
Marc:I've tasted it.
Marc:I know that feeling of chanting and just laughing to you and to everyone else because we're in on the joke.
Marc:It's just like, it's what puts...
Marc:The crowd participation puts the event over the top, in my opinion.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:And pardon the pun.
Marc:It is the best.
Marc:And actually, there's a clip on Twitter that I saw this week.
Marc:And I never saw this clip.
Marc:And it must not be from too long ago.
Marc:But it's from Anthony Bourdain, who is no longer with us.
Marc:But he's talking about going to a wrestling event, thinking that he was going to be with a bunch of incels and it was going to be silly.
Marc:But instead, he had the time of his life, dude.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And he was talking to Adam Cole, baby.
Marc:Oh, no kidding.
Marc:And Rick Baker.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He was talking to the both of them.
Marc:And I was like, where is this clip in?
Marc:But he loved it.
Marc:It was the best.
Marc:And I guarantee you, if you go to a wrestling show and if you just let it take you in, you will go for a ride.
Marc:And it is a great time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm kind of addicted to it.
Marc:I'm like, I can't wait to do it again.
Guest:That was Mark's experience too.
Guest:Like he was like, oh, I thought this was going to be like going to like UFC and it was just going to be a bunch of bros and like, you know, not my scene.
Guest:And he was like, no, this is show business.
Guest:This is like going to, he said it was like a mix between like a heavy metal concert and a strip club and a comedy show.
Guest:Like that's how he felt the whole thing was.
Marc:So Patera gets eliminated by one man gang.
Marc:Hogan comes in, lays into him and Hogan tags Bigelow and the crowd loves Bam Bam Bigelow.
Marc:Bam Bam was super over.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was he?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I did not ever remember Bam Bam.
Marc:So why didn't he ever get like the like.
Guest:He was getting a rocket push.
Guest:And then I think it was a combination of an injury and what they dubbed as like a bad attitude that God, that the brakes put on that.
Guest:And he was gone within the next several months.
Guest:Like he didn't last through the next summer.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:He was like a shooting star there.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And you could tell they're trying in this match.
Guest:Like he's, you know, as you're going to get to.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They, they definitely are trying.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So Bam Bam tags out.
Marc:Rick Rude pins Mr. Wonderful.
Marc:Again, fastest three you'll ever see on TV.
Marc:Bam Bam comes in and does one move and then tags out again.
Marc:They're really conserving Bam Bam for later on, as you'll see.
Marc:He'll need it.
Marc:Yes, he definitely will.
Marc:So Rick Rude gets pinned pretty quickly.
Marc:The Rock gets eliminated by one man gang with an assist from Andre.
Marc:And Jesse says with King Kong Bundy and Bam Bam, you know what?
Marc:You won't see any hair pulling, which I just I just thought that was great.
Marc:Just that just I love I love a good bald joke.
Guest:jesse's commentary is just so fucking great yes although i did notice that the guy you know nigel mcginnis who aw has doing collision and he was on rampage last week he is really taking a the the jesse ventura playbook to like modern levels like yeah he he is always in favor of the heels and
Guest:He finds little things to nitpick about the baby faces, but they're all like logical.
Guest:Like that was always the great thing about Jesse was he wasn't just being a heel.
Guest:He was using logic and reason to take the heels sides.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Which, to wit, you would be like, well, he makes a good point.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:I picked up on that as well.
Marc:So at this point, we got on one team Hulk Hogan and Bam Bam Bigelow.
Marc:On Team Andre, one man gang, King Kong Bundy and Andre.
Marc:Now...
Marc:Personally, if I was booking this, I would have Bam Bam eliminated and have the odds stacked way against Hulk Hogan, three to one.
Marc:However, it does not go that way.
Marc:Like when you were a kid, is that what you were thinking?
Guest:No, I was thinking Hulk Hogan will beat everyone and that's it.
Guest:That's just the, you know, no one ever thought Hulk would lose.
Guest:Like, especially when you were, like, a kid Mark fan.
Guest:Like, Hulk won everything.
Guest:So this next thing that happens was shocking.
Marc:Shocking.
Marc:So, well, I'm going to tell you what's not shocking.
Marc:Andre and Hogan finally meet, and the crowd is erupting, right?
Marc:And they proceed to have the sloppiest time chopping each other.
Marc:Like, just these...
Marc:chest chops that are just so pathetic.
Marc:And just, like, really, Andre's not looking great.
Guest:Well, it just, which is something, because, like, you know, it seemed like he was on the decline at WrestleMania III.
Guest:And so this is, like, what, seven, eight months later, he's not looking great.
Guest:And then they have that match coming up the following February on the main event, which was one of the first things we watched on this show.
Guest:And he's, that match is good.
Guest:Like, Andre...
Guest:you know he improved in that time period like you would have thought oh this is it it's all heading south but something happened where maybe he got healthier maybe because of the he was further removed from his back surgery or what in the intervening months i guess three months between when this happens and that main event episode happens he did much better it's stunning at this point because i'm just like what is this this is like a comical version of andre versus hulk
Guest:Other thing, by the way, nobody cared.
Guest:They were freaking out at this.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I mean, this is like Neil Armstrong landing on the moon.
Marc:This is like, holy shit.
Marc:This is happening.
Marc:So, it's finally happening.
Marc:Hogan versus Andre.
Marc:They're going at it.
Marc:And then...
Marc:on the outside of the ring, one-man gang pulls Hulk Hogan out of the ring, and they, Hogan and one-man gang start, and King Kong Bundy start, you know, hitting each other.
Marc:At one point, Hulk Hogan fucking picks up one-man gang, who is ginormous.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Like, as if he's nothing.
Marc:And he fucking throws him body slam, like, you know, Hogan body slamming Andre, except...
Marc:One man gang is on concrete.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:He throws them on concrete.
Marc:How?
Marc:Like hard, hard.
Marc:Like, did he get concussed?
Marc:Is he okay?
Guest:Well, it's a flat back bump.
Guest:I mean, I think that, you know, these guys are trained to take those.
Guest:It still sucks.
Guest:Like, there's no way that didn't suck to land like that.
Guest:But it's like we just watched, you know, on Dynamite, powerhouse Hobbs threw the giant onto the hood of a car.
Guest:Like, and the giant's got a bad back.
Guest:He's in his 50s, whatever.
Guest:Like, there's no way that feels good.
Guest:But these guys know they train their whole lives.
Guest:That's what the training is.
Guest:Fall on your back over and over and over again.
Marc:But in the 80s, was there really training?
Guest:Well, these guys, the training was going around the horn.
Guest:They performed eight times a week.
Guest:They were doing this all the time.
Guest:Their schedules back then were way, way, way worse than they are now.
Guest:And the amount that they were getting reps in was much more than they are now, even if they get to go to a performance center every day.
Guest:Right.
Guest:you know look here's the other thing these guys you you go and watch those you know saturday morning superstar shows right where it's you know squash matches up and down the card a guy like the one-man gang is taking no bumps right he's got some job or bumping all over bumping off of him right if you paid your money and went to one of the house shows he would take minimal bumps right
Guest:Right.
Guest:He would maybe take the body slam in the ring by Hulk Hogan and then take Hulk's leg drop.
Guest:But other than that, it's just clubbering and, you know, big fat guys, you know, yelling at the crowd.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:These guys knew when push came to shove and their money was getting put where their mouth was on pay per view.
Guest:Mm.
Guest:And they need to show out, right?
Guest:You need to show Vince, you can book me on the next one.
Guest:In fact, I would like to be in the main event at some point, right?
Guest:So you're going to slam me on the concrete?
Guest:Do your best.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, one man gang's dead.
Marc:And Hogan still, you know, getting beat on and beating up King Kong Bundy.
Marc:All of a sudden, the ref counts out Hogan.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because this ref, who is doing a very fast count, but, you know, with the three counts...
Marc:is also just counting 10 because that's one of the stipulations in the Survivor Series.
Marc:You get disqualified or eliminated if you get pinned, if you submit, and if you get counted out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But apparently you can be counted out while other guys on the team are keeping you out of the ring.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That is just weird.
Marc:Like, did he not see that these guys were forcibly making him not show up?
Guest:Well, also, the booking is weird here because if you want... I get it.
Guest:Then they want to have the thing where Bam Bam looks like he has to overcome insurmountable odds.
Guest:So there's three giants against one.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Why did they job out...
Guest:rick rude in the match already have him and hogan fighting outside the ring and they both get counted out right that would have it make sense but instead the rick rude ate a pin for no reason and he could have been the fall guy for hulk instead this is look
Guest:hulk hogan broke the rules all the time but here's a case where this is distinctly unfair to him like he is being counted out of the ring while two enormous fat guys they're like way 800 pounds combined are preventing him from going into the ring to face the legal man who is andre like that's not fair right
Marc:Even me, a Hulk Hogan hater, is like, this is a little much.
Marc:And what comes next is even more absurd.
Marc:Because as soon as Hulk Hogan is counted out and the bell rings and it's announced that Hulk Hogan has been counted out and is eliminated, as soon as that happens, even quicker, the announcer then states in very fast fashion that if Hulk Hogan doesn't leave the ring...
Marc:He will award the victory to Andre's team.
Marc:Now, I have never, like, ever heard of this happening so fast.
Guest:But I like that because it's like, it's almost as if Hulk's reputation precedes him.
Guest:Because they're like, this guy is such an asshole.
Guest:He is never going to go back to the dressing room.
Marc:He's like Bard Simpson.
Marc:He's like, no, no, no, Bard, you have to leave right now.
Like...
Guest:It's announced along with his elimination.
Marc:You're eliminated.
Guest:Oh, and by the way, you must go back.
Guest:Just in case you're not clear.
Guest:Maybe it's also because they know he never loses.
Guest:So they're like, I don't think he knows the rules.
Guest:It's actually stage direction They're actually giving stage direction They're like hey Hulk I know this has never happened to you before But when you lose you actually go away You don't just stand here and pose For the next 20 minutes Oh my god Yeah
Marc:So, Hogan and the crowd is loving this.
Marc:No, that's not correct.
Marc:They hate this outcome.
Marc:We all hate this outcome.
Marc:It's the worst possible outcome.
Marc:Like, how do you book it this way?
Marc:What is the... Like, do you know the backstage story?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:The logic... I mean, no, it's self-evident.
Guest:The logic is you don't want...
Guest:Hogan to take a pin, right?
Guest:And you want Andre to win to build to the rematch.
Guest:That's impossible, right?
Guest:Because Hogan is in the match, right?
Guest:So in some way, you got to get Hogan out of there without a pin.
Guest:There's the count out.
Guest:Hogan is not going to just take a count out where he gets knocked silly and is like, you know, taking a 10 count on the ground like a knockout, right?
Guest:So instead, it's booked so that
Guest:Oh, he was fine.
Guest:He was just getting double teamed, right?
Guest:It was unfair to him.
Guest:Like, it's deliberately booked, so it's unfair to him, right?
Guest:Gotcha.
Guest:But then, you know, that way, Andre has a claim to a rematch, but Hogan is like, well, yeah, sure, you'll get the rematch, but it's not because you beat me personally.
Guest:I gotcha.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I mean, it makes sense if you squint, but man, this is a bad look.
Marc:So at this point, it's Bam Bam Bigelow versus the big three.
Guest:And by the way, I loved this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just from this point to the end, I was way into this.
Guest:Like, is this guy going to beat the three giantest people alive?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So Bam Bam takes Bundy down and gets a two count.
Marc:But the thing I want to point out is that every time, like in this two count, every time the ref's hand swings down on the mat, like I want you to watch this.
Marc:So it's just a regular old two count that the guy gets out of.
Marc:But every time the ref...
Marc:puts his hand down, there's an uncomfortable amount of puddle of sweat that bounces up.
Marc:It is gross.
Marc:It's like it was raining in there, but no, it's just baby oil and sweat in there, dude.
Guest:It's like that scene in that Ben Stiller movie, Along Came Polly, where he's like a germaphobe, right?
Guest:And he's playing basketball with shirts and skins, and there's this real sweaty...
Guest:Fucking hairy dude.
Guest:And his face skids along the guy's whole torso.
Marc:Is that the same scene where Philip Seymour Hoffman is like calling a shot?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Shoot the rock!
Guest:Philip Seymour Hoffman ruled in that movie.
Marc:Let it rain!
Marc:What a great fucking guy.
Marc:So Bam Bam finally eliminates Bundy on a slingshot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That would have looked cool, but we don't really see the good angle of it.
Marc:There are no replays, okay?
Marc:Right.
Marc:So we get, like, the midsection shot of Bam Bam doing a slingshot off the ropes.
Marc:So Bam Bam pins one-man gang after this, like, pathetic high-risk maneuver by one-man gang.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That was his move.
Guest:That was his finisher.
Guest:He would jump on you from the top rope.
Marc:Okay, that's a finisher.
Marc:So if he misses the finisher, is it also a finisher on him?
Guest:Yeah, that's a crazy thing.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:The absence of a person suddenly makes this devastating.
Guest:You'd think that with no person laying there, that's nicer.
Guest:That's like a nicer landing than landing on a jagged human with bones and muscle and sinew.
Guest:But like you land on the flat mat and you're unconscious.
Marc:You're just done.
Marc:Like, like, like just take the snake.
Marc:If he does the DDT, but the guy slips out, does he just, he just knocked unconscious?
Marc:Right.
Right.
Guest:So my favorite version of this, we have to watch this at some point.
Marc:What's that?
Guest:My absolute favorite version of this is that what's Macho Man Randy Savage's finishing move?
Guest:The elbow off the rope.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So if he hits you with that, you're donezo.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there is a match with Hulk Hogan against like the Dungeon of Doom, our friends, the Dungeon of Doom in WCW.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're destroying Hulk Hogan.
Guest:They got him knocked out.
Guest:They've cheated in somehow to like knock him unconscious.
Guest:The ref is like pulling the manager out of the ring or something.
Guest:And then whoever the heel was, I forget who the main heel was.
Guest:Maybe it doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Guest:They're over like trying to argue with the ref.
Guest:Oh, hey, come back and pay attention.
Guest:I'm going to pin Hulk Hogan right now.
Guest:And Macho Man, who you weren't sure if he was aligned with Hulk Hogan or against him at this point.
Guest:He was new to WCW, just showed up.
Guest:Is he with Hulk Hogan or is he against him?
Guest:So he goes up to the top rope.
Guest:Hulk Hogan is laying there and Macho Man drops the elbow on him.
Guest:right so you're like oh he's against him yeah no because what happens when you drop a finishing move on hulk hogan oh he hulks up yes so he was a reviving elbow so he was like clear yes exactly he didn't use paddles he just jumped on him from the sky and
Guest:That's ridiculous.
Guest:That's the best one ever of these instances.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:So we get Andre versus Bam Bam.
Marc:Can Bam Bam do it?
Marc:Can he beat the giant?
Marc:And Bam Bam is just actually gassed.
Guest:Yeah, and he has to like do cartwheels and stuff.
Guest:Like that's part of his moveset.
Guest:He's like this fat guy who does cartwheels.
Guest:So...
Guest:He's now been in this match for 30 minutes, however long it's been.
Guest:He fought two giant fat dudes, and now he's got Andre the Giant.
Guest:Giant is in his name, and he's still got two car wheels around him and somersaults.
Marc:He has to dance around him, basically, because the Giant's just lumbering around him, swinging his arms.
Marc:It's like a cat and mouse, except the fucking mouse is also... Also a cat.
Yes.
Marc:cat and mouse cat so oh man uh andre uh finally puts bam bam out of his misery uh yeah and then what happens how long does andre get to celebrate this win
Marc:Not one second, because this fucking skunk, Hulk Hogan, comes in and hits Andre with a championship belt like a piece of garbage.
Guest:Lost.
Guest:He's straight up lost.
Guest:His team lost.
Guest:He's been told to go away, and he comes back immediately.
Marc:What a sore fucking loser this guy is.
Marc:And also, just a heel move.
Marc:Can I just say...
Marc:Mr. Wonderful, Bam Bam Bigelow, Hulk Hogan.
Marc:These are all bad guys.
Marc:Like, these are actual heels.
Guest:Right, they've had a history of being heels, yes.
Marc:Yes, they are not the good guys.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:So, Hogan comes out, hits this poor guy with a championship belt.
Marc:And Hogan just... I have to say it again.
Marc:He's just...
Marc:And I know MJF has used scumbag and brought it back around, but this Hulk Hogan is a scumbag.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He wraps himself in the American flag.
Guest:Literally.
Marc:He cheats and does anything he can to claim victory.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Remind you of anyone else?
Marc:Like anyone?
Marc:Oh, you mean the other guy that's in the WWF Hall of Fame?
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:So now they start playing Hulk Hogan's theme for no reason.
Marc:He lost the match.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And now Hogan does his posing for the crowd.
Marc:And he's so sweaty.
Marc:And it looks like the entire ring and ropes is just dripping with a mixture of body oil and sweat.
Marc:It is just disgusting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We finally leave this embarrassment of a human being.
Marc:And see, my personal favorite, Mean Gene comes in and they end with an interview with Andre and Bobby the Brain Heenan.
Marc:And man, Mean Gene and Bobby the Brain Heenan have such good chemistry.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:They just...
Marc:They just hate each other, and it's just great.
Marc:Mean Gene says, I don't think I've ever seen anything that hot.
Marc:And I honestly think he meant that literally, because it must have been so hot in that arena with the ref's sweaty palm bouncing off of the canvas.
Marc:It was just something else.
Marc:And yeah, it finally ends with Gorilla Monsoon saying, it was a happening, and then...
Marc:And then we end on, like, the worst still photographs you could get of the action from the night.
Guest:But I feel like that was a technological achievement at the time.
Guest:Like, oh, we'll show you things that happened tonight.
Guest:You'll see them again.
Marc:Dude, a blind child could have taken better photos.
Marc:Like...
Marc:And they repeat a bunch.
Guest:But I don't think I don't think there were photos.
Guest:They were the whatever the equivalent of a screen grab is for whatever analog system they're using.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's like somebody sitting there with the Betamax and like pressing a button.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's supposed to do a grab.
Guest:And that's why the guy's like halfway through the air.
Guest:You blurry.
Guest:You can't even see what he's doing.
Marc:It was the worst.
Marc:But it was also the best of times because that was the first Survivor Series.
Marc:And I got to say, I was hooked because I love the idea.
Marc:I would do this when it wasn't Survivor Series time.
Marc:I would have four guys around the ring.
Marc:It was just, or five guys.
Marc:It was just the best time.
Marc:So yeah, that first Survivor Series was important because it paved the way for all the rest of it.
Guest:Oh, it was an instant success.
Guest:People loved this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They, I mean, obviously they, you know, kept doing it for, for multiple years.
Guest:The thing, you know, that we we're pointing out here is that you got to see all these people in not just one night.
Guest:They were, you know, 10 to 10 people, 20 people per match.
Guest:So you saw your big stars all together and it made a big D made a big difference for the presentation of the show.
Guest:Um,
Guest:I was happy that we came across this clip of one of the syndicated weekend shows where it was leading up to Survivor Series 93 and Lex Luger and the Steiner brothers needed to find a replacement on their team.
Guest:And they announced that their new partner was the undertaker.
Guest:Uh, and their team is called the all Americans, which as the undertaker is coming out to join them, Jerry Lawler, who is on commentary is just running through this string of insults about the undertaker.
Guest:He's like, he's an all American.
Guest:How is he an all American?
Guest:He's not even alive.
Guest:and just all these graveyard puns and yeah just machine gun just just just throwing them out like like like the best comedian ken did he write like i would love to know did he have a writer no apparently jerry lawler the one of the things that's talked about with him is that he would just amass joke books and he would literally like go to the job with like
Guest:standard jokes written down, like from like joke books.
Guest:And, you know, he would tweak them a little bit to make them appropriate for the wrestlers, but he just had all these like Henny Youngman style one-liners at the ready.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:I would love to see them, honestly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He was the best part of that.
Marc:Like, well, and, and,
Marc:The Undertaker comes in and announces, you know, and why don't you, why don't you tell him that he announces that he's going to join the team, right?
Guest:He's joining the All-Americans.
Guest:He gives some, some reason about how they are patriots and that that's their love of country is like, I don't know, his love of death.
Guest:I couldn't quite put it together.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He was like, they're passionate about this.
Marc:Reminds me of me being passionate about being a gravedigger?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Whatever he was talking about.
Guest:But it's all set up to him opening his black trench coat, like a flasher would do in the parking lot.
Guest:And instead of nudity, you see...
Guest:a Betsy Ross flag woven into the undertaker's, uh, trench coat.
Guest:Like it's like the lining of his trench coat is now the, the colonial flag.
Guest:And, uh, all I could think of was that, uh, there's that, that tweet from a drill, uh, and it says, uh,
Guest:Yep, another day volunteering at the Betsy Ross Museum.
Guest:Another day of people asking me if they can fuck the flag.
Guest:Buddy, they don't even let me fuck the flag.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:But I love that when he reveals this flag...
Guest:lex luger and the steiners who are behind him have to pretend that they don't know what's happening and so they have this look on their face like what's what's he shot like to them in their characters he may be showing his dong like he could be flashing the audience right now so they have to come from behind him and they look they peer around you have never seen three bigger geeks than these dorks noticing the flag and cheering like lex luger's like pumps his arm
Guest:Like what?
Guest:He's wearing a flag in his coat.
Guest:Chill out, dude.
Guest:I believe you said it.
Guest:You said it best.
Guest:Like it's very noticeable watching Lex Luger here that he was not ready for this to be at the top.
Marc:He's a big guy, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he just looks real small in there.
Marc:The presence.
Marc:It's presence.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:He doesn't hold it.
Marc:The spotlight is anywhere he isn't.
Marc:Like, even when he's talking in the ring, I'm just like, what's someone else doing over there?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He just didn't have it.
Guest:He's got, like, a Captain America shield for charisma.
Guest:Like, he just, like, bounces it right off.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Poor Lex Luger.
Guest:That still was a very good clip, though.
Guest:I was happy to have come across it, which is what's happening now, because it's like Thanksgiving time.
Guest:People are sharing these clips of all these, you know, Survivor Series moments.
Guest:And I guess that's what we've been doing here today.
Guest:I was I was very happy to go revisit Survivor Series.
Guest:And I might actually go do it again.
Guest:You know, now when people are listening to this, it's Black Friday.
Guest:I'm sure I will load up some Survivor Series to enjoy around the actual Thanksgiving holiday season.
Guest:In fact, the one I really have a soft spot for, it's not particularly good.
Guest:But there's one, it's, I believe, 1990, where at the end, they did this one thing, one year, it was the only year they did it, where they took the winners of the babyface teams and the winners of the heel teams, and they had to have won what they called the grand finale match of survival.
Guest:Wait.
Marc:Wait, when you mean the winners, you mean the guy who pinned the last guy?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Oh, the survivors.
Marc:The survivors.
Marc:They have to team up against the good guys.
Marc:The good survivors and the bad survivors have to face off.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, the lone survivor?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So it was Ultimate Warrior, Hulk Hogan, and Tito Santana.
Guest:Oh, no kidding.
Guest:Versus The Million Dollar Man, The Model, The Warlord, Hercules, and Paul Roma.
Guest:Five?
Guest:Yes, five versus three.
Guest:Ooh, I'm going to check this out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What happens at it?
Marc:What happens at it?
Guest:Well, I don't think you would lose money if you put it on Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior winning this match.
Guest:is it okay i'm i'm gonna watch so 1990 1990 yeah the grand finale match of survival why didn't they so did it did it flop why didn't they ever do this again yeah i think you know it's probably was like what what other things are you gonna do you're gonna ultimately always have hulk hogan and another top guy in there and then they're gonna have to win right like you're not gonna beat those guys so uh yeah
Marc:But see, look, I'm looking at the 1990 poster.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Can I just say the posters rule?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I love these posters.
Marc:I would stare at these goddamn posters in Blockbuster or Hollywood video.
Marc:They are just the best.
Guest:If you notice, the 1991 is the one that has a mystery team member on the.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the debut of The Undertaker.
Marc:Oh, that's who that is.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Can I just say, because Halloween Havoc that we watched, these teams didn't... Oh, Team 1 and Team 2?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is so much better.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, come on.
Marc:You have the visionaries with Rick Martel, Warlord, Hercules, and Paul Roma.
Marc:I mean, against the Vipers?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like, the Vipers?
Marc:That's awesome.
Marc:Jake the Snake, Jimmy Snuka, and the Rockers.
Marc:That's awesome, dude.
Yeah.
Marc:The natural disasters?
Marc:Oh, baby.
Marc:You just bring me back.
Guest:Well, we now know what Chris is going to be doing for the rest of the week until we talk to you again.
Guest:And that will be a week from today.
Guest:We will be into December, finally.
Guest:So the next time we talk to you will be December 1st.
Guest:But you let us know what you want to hear from us, what you want us to talk about, what you want us to react to.
Guest:Got some good stuff coming up on WTF.
Guest:In fact, the Albert Brooks episode.
Guest:So I will be talking about this with Chris the next time we're here.
Marc:Got to clear out for that because I'm going to probably want to talk to your head off about it.
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:Long time coming for Albert and Mark.
Guest:Okay, well, I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving.
Guest:Hope you're enjoying this long weekend.
Guest:And until next time, I'm Brendan, and that's Chris.
Peace!