BONUS The Friday Show - Kitsch of the Spider Woman
Marc:I got two goddamn cups of water here because my cat sometimes puts his paw in one of them.
Marc:So now I'm just like, I got two cups of water.
Marc:I feel like I'm in signs where there's just cups of water everywhere.
Guest:Hopefully this will be a more satisfying twist to this podcast, but who knows?
Guest:Oh, that's cat litter.
Marc:Damn it.
Guest:Hey, Chris.
Guest:Brandon.
Guest:Good seeing you.
Guest:It's all right.
Guest:It's okay.
Guest:There's something to live for.
Guest:Jesus told me so.
Marc:That's it.
Guest:I was very happy that we introduced you last night to American Movie for the very first time.
Guest:You sure did.
Guest:And I was very happy to do that.
Marc:Oh man, I gotta say, I was extremely nervous because I know how much you love this.
Marc:I've listened to you and Mark talk about it and your friends all love it.
Marc:So I'm just like, oh no, I'm going into this and have never seen it.
Marc:We had to go to Yonkers, New York to watch it in the movie theater.
Marc:Goddamn Yonkers.
Marc:But yeah, we went, and I got to say, it delivered.
Marc:It was delightful.
Guest:Yeah, I kept saying that to you, and you were like, I'm worried that this is not going to hit the way it hits for all you guys.
Guest:And I was like, are you kidding me?
Guest:I wouldn't even hear it.
Guest:I knew...
Guest:I knew exactly where this was going to get you.
Guest:In case it went past you when I mentioned it, it's the documentary American movie.
Guest:Mark and I love this film.
Guest:We did a whole episode on it here on the Full Marin.
Guest:I've watched it, I don't know, twice a year for 20 some odd years or so.
Guest:So yes, it's definitely a huge part of my life.
Guest:And now, Chris, for the first time, it is part of yours.
Marc:I think I was in when...
Marc:He tried to ram a guy's head through a kitchen sink, a kitchen door.
Guest:A cupboard.
Marc:Yeah, a cupboard.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he does it so aggressively and it does not break like he wants it to.
Marc:And oh my God, I'm so... It's so...
Guest:painful it's it just it's it's a wonderful movie if you have not seen it please go and check it out preferably in a theater for some point it was on the criterion collection that's fine at all go see it in a theater that's the best yeah if if they do like i mean i'd like them to play it in theaters more but like we have to travel uh you know up to uh almost westchester to see it so right
Guest:I don't know how often it gets played, but it is because it's a 1999 film.
Guest:And so there's a lot of 25th anniversary stuff going on.
Marc:Yeah, nice.
Marc:Well, I mean, I had a great time there.
Marc:I've actually had a great fucking week.
Marc:Like, this week has been an old timer.
Marc:And honestly, I think of Mark a lot when I have a week like this.
Marc:Because, like, I think of him, like, moving to New Mexico and, like...
Marc:Just, I don't know, being kind of insulated.
Marc:Whereas, like, I don't know, if you move to New York City, you could, like, go to the Lincoln Square IMAX, which apparently is the biggest screen in America, which I just found out today.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:That's bigger than the one out in Universal City AMC out there?
Marc:I think it's the biggest IMAX.
Marc:That's the graphic I saw.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:But, you know, I did that.
Marc:We met up in Brooklyn for a different movie.
Marc:I took my wife to see a movie.
Marc:We also went to see my buddy Ivy, read some poetry in Brooklyn.
Marc:Like, just a...
Guest:all-time weak and like all of this and more could be mark's life if he uh yes but but he he it's not like he's going to go somewhere else and just like he can't leave like it's not like he's got a ankle bracelet on him or something where he's got to stay in under house arrest he just wants a retreat sure but he he's sounding really depressed a bit like have you okay have you noticed that yes
Guest:I've noticed and I had to talk to him a bunch of times to try to get where he's coming from.
Guest:And one thing I reminded him is that this happens every time he goes on tour.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yes, every time.
Guest:I mean, I'm sure there's age and the stuff that's going on with his family, his parents.
Guest:That's all weighing on him for sure.
Guest:And I take him at his word with the stuff that he's actually concerned about in certain...
Guest:certain things that are weighing heavy on his heart right now.
Guest:But I did remind him, and he was like, yeah, you're right.
Guest:Every time he starts off on what's going to be a long tour, and he's been putting it together either at...
Guest:the comedy store or at you know largo doing doing stuff to kind of get the hour on its feet but he hasn't really put the hour on its feet at least not multiple times in a row like he did it you know weekend in san diego did a weekend in san francisco but he hasn't done that thing yet where you have to get on the road you know and he's going to be doing that starting next week he's going to go to maine and then he's going to go to massachusetts and then
Guest:providence rhode island and then drive all the way in one day from providence to tarrytown new york that's a long drive right and so that's like the old school days of like you just gotta like get your head around your act and you go out and you do it and there's probably all sorts of sense memory for him about that not going great or being difficult or whatever so he just gets he gets anxiety and it's it wears on him but like i look look i told i've said this directly to him i'm like
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, you know, it's, I'm glad you said that because I did wonder, I was like, how much of a, not so much a producer, like when you're listening to this and like, you've obviously have taught, you know, heard him go through up many ups and many downs throughout this time doing the podcast.
Marc:Like how often are you like, do you have to like, kind of be like, Hey buddy, like you're good.
Marc:Like, you know, and like have these types of conversations.
Guest:Not very often at all in terms of doing it after I hear something.
Guest:Because when I'm hearing it, I would say 99% of the time, when I'm hearing it on his recording, I've already heard it directly from him.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:We've had a talk about it or a text about it or things like that.
Guest:So there's definitely times where I will kind of...
Guest:address it again with him later but yeah if he's down and a you know my my biggest you know point for him is uh you know use that use that in what you're going to talk about use that in how you're you know use how you're feeling right now in what you go lay down in the recording and oftentimes that's the right thing to do yeah well that's that's good advice as uh as as we've seen
Guest:Yeah, well, and, you know, the funny thing, too, is that, like, he's feeling this way, and that's the other thing, I always kind of know this, because sometimes he's had that kind of feeling on the basis of not being fulfilled in his work overall.
Guest:Like, if he's had a few, it only takes a few.
Guest:It could take, like, two.
Guest:Three, it definitely will happen.
Guest:If he's got a couple interviews in a row that don't go great for him, like, he just gets in a bad mood.
Guest:You know, it just affects his overall disposition.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we have not had that lately.
Guest:He's been very happy with every talk that's gone on in the garage, including ones outside of the garage, like Carol Burnett.
Guest:And he's just definitely reacting right now to something else.
Guest:If anything, he's like, oh, no, these talks are going great.
Guest:And it's a place where he's feeling relaxed.
Guest:So I know that I don't have to worry about that with him.
Guest:I know that...
Guest:And that's another thing that kind of tells me, okay, so he's dealing with something else that's giving him anxiety.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, you know, he's always going to kind of probably feel like this when he comes back from his dad's.
Guest:And, you know, then this week, you know, if you've heard him do the intro on Thursday's show, you know, he's obviously feeling pretty sad and melancholy about Richard Lewis, right?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So it's like you can't, you know, deny things going on in your life.
Guest:And especially if you're like Mark, where you open up emotionally as part of your persona, right?
Guest:As part of what he's there to kind of deliver, whether it's through comedy or through this podcast, he accesses it by being open.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so if he's going to do that, and part of that openness is sadness, then you're going to hear it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You're going to get the good and the bad and like the painful and the happy.
Marc:So yeah, you're going to get the full spectrum of Mark.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I think for a lot of people, that's helpful, you know?
Marc:Oh, absolutely.
Marc:People feel sad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, look, I mean, shit, on Monday's episode, Mark basically saying what you were saying and what you've told me before, just saying that, like, you know, this job is stressful for the reason it's stressful.
Guest:And it's so relatable.
Guest:I thought that was very funny because, as I've mentioned many times, Mark does not listen to this stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's not checking in with the Friday show.
Guest:He's not checking in with his own show.
Guest:He doesn't listen to anything he does once he's done it.
Guest:And so I thought it was interesting that he repeated almost verbatim what I said to you about how these interviews are stressful to him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I thought that was like fascinating.
Marc:And honestly, it's, I know you have said it to me, but you know what?
Marc:It's also great to just hear it from him because he just has a way of delivering it that it just, you know, it just hits.
Guest:Oh, you don't, you don't doubt him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like when you hear that guy, this guy's gone through something.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And thank you for putting the Richard Lewis episode up, man.
Marc:That was – it was a great listen.
Marc:If you haven't listened to it, it was on Thursday.
Marc:And, yeah, it was a really touching conversation, really funny.
Marc:Like, man, it was great to hear his Letterman story and the Carson story and, like, just the –
Marc:Interplay between Mark and Richard is like little brothers or siblings, I'd say.
Guest:I didn't know about this news.
Guest:I was driving in the car.
Guest:It was heavy traffic driving up to Yonkers, a lot of rain.
Guest:So I got in the car early.
Guest:I was on the road for like two hours getting up there.
Guest:And so I didn't see the news about Richard.
Guest:And Mark gave me a call.
Guest:And he told me about it.
Guest:And I said, okay, well, when I get home, I'll repost the episode because I knew it was in the paywall.
Guest:And he was like, okay, what episode is that?
Guest:And it's like...
Guest:I don't go out of my way to try to commit these things to memory.
Guest:But I just immediately was like, oh, it's 193 from 2011.
Guest:Like, I just knew it.
Guest:Like, I couldn't do that with every episode, right?
Guest:God damn.
Guest:There's no way that I would remember just even something from like...
Guest:Two years ago, like if you said, you know, what episode was Tony Kushner?
Guest:Like, I don't remember the number.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But like those first two, three years, like those were that I like I have those committed to memory.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The way that you would have like your phone number.
Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Star Wars movies.
Guest:Like I know what order they were in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like the same thing with those, those early episodes.
Guest:And I always also remember Richard's story about like kind of bottoming out as a drunk and meeting Bruce Springsteen.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:It was literally in my head when I met Bruce Springsteen.
Guest:Like I was like, oh my God, I remember Richard Lewis's story about this exact experience.
Guest:Like it's just one of those weird things.
Guest:I've always remembered it.
Guest:It was always in my head.
Guest:So yeah, if anyone hasn't heard it, it is there in the main feed.
Guest:Although you Fulmarin listeners always have access to those episodes, which in case people didn't, I should explain this.
Guest:Some people don't know.
Hmm.
Guest:One of the reasons why we put episodes out, it's the main reason, is because if they are behind the paywall, we don't want people to ever think we are profiting off of some interest in someone's episode because they just died, right?
Guest:So that goes all the way back to when we first started a premium service through our old host Libsyn.
Guest:And what we did was we had the most recent 50 episodes for free and then everything else you could access through the WTF app if you paid the subscription fee.
Guest:And so that happened frequently since it was the most recent 50 episodes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now, when someone passes away, we want to, you know, make people aware that if they did an episode with us, they can go listen to it.
Guest:And now, because we're with ACAST, and ACAST lets everything back to episode 501 be available in your free feed.
Guest:We'll just highlight the episode, say, hey, you know, here's the link.
Guest:Mark will tweet the link out or, you know, we'll say, you know, oh, it's episode 80 whatever, you know, go listen to it.
Guest:It's in your free feed wherever you listen to this right now.
Guest:But if it's behind the paywall and we can't do that, it's important to us as it's always been important that people know, hey, we're not trying to profit on this.
Guest:This is free.
Guest:There's no ads in it.
Guest:They're just, just like, if you want to listen to it, it's there for you.
Guest:And I can't tell you how many times we've had people say like, thank you for posting it because it was my, it was like my way to grieve that person's loss.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Like,
Guest:Yeah, like, it does feel a bit like a wake.
Guest:Like, you get, like, a good wake, you know, an Irish wake.
Guest:Right, an Irish wake, yeah.
Guest:You get to celebrate the person, you know?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, the ending of that episode is so touching in light of his passing, as was Mark's eulogy, basically, on Thursday's episode, you know, like, for lack of a better term.
Marc:Like, it was just... I think that I'd call it that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was beautiful and touching.
Marc:And yeah, he will definitely be missed.
Marc:And yeah, it's a great listen for anyone who hasn't checked it out.
Guest:I very much enjoyed people posting streams and streams of Curb Your Enthusiasm clips.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It does not get old.
Guest:No, and you know, it's funny because sometimes, you know, the whole show, like Curb is a lot, right?
Guest:If you're watching an episode of Curb, 30 minutes of Curb bombards you with so much stuff, right?
Guest:So sometimes you forget like how funny individual people are on it.
Guest:And then when you watch them in isolation, like I've done that before.
Guest:I've seen like clips of J.B.
Guest:Smoove, right?
Guest:Like back to back to back.
Guest:And it's like, oh my God, this is like one of the greatest characters of all time.
Guest:I'm like, how is this possible that this is in a show, this character?
Guest:And it's the same, like watching these things with Richard, like it's not, I mean, he's just playing Richard.
Guest:So you're not like, it's not like Leon where you're like, this character is amazing.
Guest:It's just Richard, but you're like, oh my God, these two together are so, like, you know that the thing they loved the most was making the other one break.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like bust up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Somebody pointed this out.
Guest:It's not my original thought.
Guest:But it's almost like the greatness of a curb clip is if you notice how many edits there are in it.
Guest:Because the number of edits that are in it are indicative of how many times people have broke.
Guest:Right, yeah.
Marc:That's a great point.
Marc:Oh, man, I'm going to rewatch some episodes with that in mind.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:If it's just back and forth, Richard, Larry, Richard, Larry, like, you know, there is lots of breaking going on.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Speaking of breaking, how many times did you have to correct Mark on Flowers of the Killer Moon being the title of the movie?
Yeah.
Guest:You mean like tell him that's not what it is?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You know, I never had to correct him on it because like if he said it in error in the like intro or something, he just corrected himself.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But I do like that he had to have it corrected for him by Lily Gladstone.
Yeah.
Marc:By the way, Flowers of the Killer Moon, not a bad title for a movie.
Marc:Just not this movie.
Marc:No.
Guest:It also sounds like an Echo and the Bunnymen song, I think.
Marc:Yes, totally.
Marc:Totally is.
Marc:Lily Gladstone, great talk.
Marc:I mean, a fan, by the way.
Marc:Like an actual fan of Mark and the show.
Marc:Like, you know, she was talking about like the hummingbirds at the end of the episode.
Marc:Like it was cool.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:To hear her like be like a fan, you know, like not just like someone who's just making the rounds.
Marc:So I just thought that was like really, really cool.
Marc:So you having Lily on, is that basically you and Mark basically saying like –
Marc:Okay, I want this person to win.
Marc:Like, what?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:No, no, definitely not.
Guest:No?
Guest:No, because we went to the, you know, booking agency that we work with, our bookers, and said, like, we had people, like, Lily was somebody we had requested, like, when the movie came out, essentially.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mark knew who she was from the Kelly Reichert movies.
Guest:So, you know, when that movie, when it came out and it was like, you know, Leo, he doesn't do a lot of press rounds and Marty, as we've talked about, you know, he kind of demurs about the length of our show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So we're like, well, okay, we absolutely would have Lily Gladstone on.
Guest:So that's been in the cards since October.
Guest:But when, you know, on the morning the Oscar nominations were announced, I then took the list and I sent it back to the bookers.
Guest:And I said, like, other than these people who have been on recently, like Cillian Murphy...
Guest:Like everyone's fair game.
Guest:We'd have anybody on, which was like how we got like divine joy Randolph.
Guest:Like, I don't know that we would have ever booked her even just like for the holdovers alone, because, you know, we booked Paul Giamatti.
Guest:And I would say that unless, unless it's a movie that Mark is like,
Guest:I really love this movie.
Guest:I want to support it as much as possible.
Guest:Let's have as many people on as we can.
Guest:I can think of a movie called Body Brokers, a small independent film that he did that with because he really liked the film.
Guest:He liked the director and he wanted to get attention to it.
Guest:And it was like during the pandemic.
Guest:So, you know, people were not seeing...
Guest:movies in theaters so you had to like do whatever you could to draw attention to them so download them whatever and stream them and uh we had melissa leo and michael k williams uh on that was a great episode again but going back to the idea of you know kind of
Guest:memorializing people when they've died.
Guest:That episode was great to have as a kind of celebration of that guy's life.
Guest:But that aside, that was an episode where Mark wanted to do as much as he could to kind of help promote the movie with interesting people he wanted to talk to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But so with certain things, like, you know, okay, we're going to get one person from this, right?
Guest:And then that's enough.
Guest:Like, we don't have to become the holdovers, right?
Guest:And have everybody from the movie on as a guest.
Guest:So once the Oscar nominations came out, it's like, now we have reasons where it's like the person's story of their journey to this crazy moment where they're at the top of their profession.
Guest:That all makes sense regardless of what movie they're in, right?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So yes, we went back to everybody and there was no best actor, actress, anything that we were like, well, we only want this person because that's the person we want to win.
Guest:It was all of them.
Guest:Carey Mulligan, I believe, was like a very likely booking that just wound up not happening.
Guest:Schedule is tough at this time of year.
Guest:And I think I mentioned this on the last episode.
Guest:We had to do almost all those around like the course of three days.
Guest:And it was all surrounding the Oscar luncheon on February 12th.
Guest:so yeah no no preferential treatment there uh although i think it's very fair to say whether winning or not winning is not really relevant but uh you know if you're pointing out these you heard in lily's uh intent that she's a fan of mark's like mark and i clearly huge fans of hers yeah uh in fact like as we were prepping this interview i'm like watching videos i'm reading interviews with her and i i text mark i'm like
Guest:this woman is remarkable.
Guest:Like she's amazing.
Guest:Like, and then we start texting back and forth about like what it is, like what, what in her performances are.
Guest:It's so great how she's able to just hold the camera and this and that.
Guest:And we're getting like, you know, analytically we're getting very detailed in like, what is it about, about her that works so much?
Guest:And I'm like, you know, she's got this like amazing face.
Guest:Like you want to just like study her face.
Guest:It's like this really warm, open face.
Guest:And like,
Guest:it's just like compelling magnetic you want to watch it and I'm like I can't even really put my finger on it and explain it and Mark writes back to me he goes well why don't I just read this to her and I'll ask her what she thinks it won't be awkward or anything laughing
Guest:And I'm laughing at it.
Guest:I text him back.
Guest:I'm like, yeah, that'd be great if you're like, oh, my producer says you have a really round, open face.
Guest:What do you think about that?
Guest:Thoughts?
Guest:Lo and behold, though, they sit down.
Guest:It's within 30 seconds.
Guest:He's like, so I gather you're a person who people project any number of things onto.
Guest:And she's like, yeah, good call.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:And he's like, yeah, why do you think that is?
Guest:And she's like...
Marc:i don't know maybe my big round open face i couldn't believe that it was such a score that's great it's like she was in your heads i think she called it i think she actually called it her open mama's face yes yeah that's what it is like oh my god she admitted yeah
Marc:It's like 10 minutes into that episode where Lily is just talking about her role on Reservation Dogs.
Marc:It just, like, occurs to me that this is just, this is not your normal awards, like, chit-chat.
Marc:This is just two people having a conversation about the work that they've done.
Marc:And it's great.
Marc:It's so disarming.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:it we got a lot of feedback about that that you know people who are fans of like a lot of times if someone's new to the show it's because they're a fan of a person and they want to like hear everything that person's done right yeah and and a lot of times it's not the first time it's ever happened obviously that you know someone who's never heard the show before will then write to us and say
Marc:this is my first episode and you did the best interview with this person right like that I'm a huge fan of listen to it all and you did you just did the best one and we got a bunch of those for this yeah and I mean absolutely you know I mean her talking about her the dementia drug I thought that was a great bit where like you know it makes your delusions positive instead of fearful and like Mark's like wow that sounds great what can I do you know what's that
Marc:I can give it to my dad.
Marc:I also love that her brother would just say the same jokes to her grandmother.
Marc:And Mark was like, yeah, same set, different audience every night.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, all that was great.
Guest:Their connection was great.
Guest:But I just also felt like... So, again, this is what we're here to do on The Full Marin.
Guest:I don't mind saying this.
Guest:It's not something to keep a secret.
Guest:But it is production-wise, process-wise.
Guest:This is what Mark and I go through.
Guest:A big thing I wanted to make sure about was...
Guest:especially reading interview after interview, like as she's been on this award circuit, that so many people, I don't fault them for this.
Guest:It makes sense in a way, but so many people interview her from the position of she's now a representative for indigenous people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:in hollywood and that she's going to be the marker for all these things and almost you know that depends on like the skill level of the person talking to her there might be a like a kind of nuanced way to do that but a lot of it is just like so as the first right what do you think now is the state of hollywood and their treatment of native peoples right and it's like
Guest:I'm sure she's got opinions and good answers, and I've never seen her honk one of those.
Guest:She's this thoughtful person, very smart.
Guest:But I just kind of felt like...
Guest:That's not why you wanted to talk to her when she was in Certain Women.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You wanted to talk to her because you're like, this person seems very interesting and charismatic in a way that I can't even pin down.
Guest:Let's talk about that.
Guest:Where do you come from?
Guest:Why is this your skill set?
Guest:What do you bring to the table?
Guest:And...
Guest:I just was very adamant in terms of—I didn't have to be adamant with Mark.
Guest:He agreed.
Guest:But just in terms of the prep I was putting together, this is all going to be oriented around who she is, what her work has been, the relationship she has with the other people she works with.
Guest:I don't need her to be a representative on our show.
Guest:Let's just talk.
Right.
Guest:And then when you do that, the person feels free to say whatever they want about that thing without feeling like they have to hold up some placard that says, I am now the designated speaker for all people under this umbrella group, you know?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like Atlas with the, with the world.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And yeah, for sure.
Marc:And it's, it's kind of scary how, how often that is sort of placed on a person.
Marc:Like I remember Halle Berry had that sort of, you know, same sort of thing where for like, oh my gosh, you're the first black woman to, to win an Oscars.
Marc:You know, what does this mean?
Marc:Like, you know, it's just like, can I just be a person?
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or it's like, I don't think any people who hold that kind of mantle take it lightly.
Guest:I'm sure they want to address it, but that doesn't have to be, as Rebecca Ferguson says, number one on the call sheet.
Guest:It can be part of the story.
Guest:It doesn't have to be the story.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, I, oh, another thing I loved about that episode was Mark saying like, you make up your story for that person and then you find out you're wrong.
Marc:And, uh, and basically that's what he does every week on the show.
Marc:Like I've made up my mind on who that person is.
Marc:And now that person is going to talk me out of it.
Guest:I just, I thought that was, I think part of that is also the freedom of doing the show is knowing that that's the gig, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's not, it's not like he's, he's like, oh, they got me.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:He's like, no, no.
Guest:Talk me out of it.
Guest:Like, that's the goal.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Also, jovial misanthrope.
Marc:Wonderful turn of phrase.
Guest:Also, very clear that she knows who he is.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like, when she said that, I was like...
Guest:Hell, I've been like working with a guy for 20 years and I never came across those two words together to describe him.
Guest:But like, if you know, you know.
Marc:Yes, game recognizes game.
Marc:Like that's when I'm like, oh no, she knows, Mark.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:For sure.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Well, listen, I know we've talked a lot about Lily Gladstone here.
Guest:I don't want to give short shrift to Mae Martin because that was also a very surprising, interesting interview.
Guest:I don't know if you had a chance to listen to that.
Guest:Of course I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like the thing that jumped out at me was like, man, on paper, you couldn't come up with two people who present differently than these two.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, very similar though, you know, so alike in so many ways that they're both discovering in the process of the interview.
Marc:It was a great, it was like a date where it's just like, Oh, I don't know if this.
Marc:And it's like, Oh wait, we have very similar backgrounds and very similar, you know, interests.
Marc:Like, yeah.
Marc:Like, like the road to recovery.
Marc:They got banned from second city for two years.
Marc:That's yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was a great bit.
Marc:And I really, really loved their stories about putting on their Netflix special and having a very similar set to Hannah Gadsby's set.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Which, I mean, I actually went on Netflix and I checked it out.
Marc:They're not that similar, but they are very foresty.
Marc:So, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I can get why with Hannah Gadsby, it's like, oh, the one fucking person.
Guest:I shouldn't be anywhere close to resembling right now because we're getting lumped in together no matter what.
Guest:But it's interesting.
Guest:It came up in that interview as well.
Guest:And we did not plan for that.
Guest:It was just a timing thing.
Guest:We didn't plan for those two interviews to be on the same week.
Guest:But May was talking about how it's like, I am not the representative.
Guest:It's scary.
Guest:for them to have to deal with like the weight of it.
Guest:And it's like, all they're doing is going out and telling their story.
Guest:Like that's their story.
Guest:It's not like, maybe that'll help somebody or maybe it's just like, I think it helped Mark.
Guest:Like, not like Mark's having as confusion about his gender identity, but like when he watched the special and we were talking about it, he was like,
Guest:Oh, God, I go through so many of the same things, like just about doubts and insecurities and personal issues where he doesn't feel like a built person, you know?
Marc:And I really found it comforting or just relatable that May was talking about, you know, yeah, talking about pronouns and like language.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When I went to school, we didn't have that sort of thing.
Marc:So even they get tripped up when using the correct pronouns.
Marc:And I'm just like, you know what?
Marc:I don't think I've ever heard that from too many people.
Marc:And that's so kind of refreshing to hear.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know why you don't hear that?
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because people don't talk to them directly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It just gets thrown to you as some pronouncement from who knows where.
Guest:Right.
Guest:oh, well, you can't say this, or you shouldn't say that, or, you know, it's like a faceless Twitter mob will jump on you for something.
Guest:And it's like, if you listen to what Mae said, it's like,
Guest:There's no problem if you slip up and say she.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just try.
Guest:Just try.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just, you know, can you imagine just trying and not just being a dick or just being a, you know, for like a meathead for lack of a better term?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I mean, I've said it to people before because you have these conversations with people in your life or people, maybe it's people older than you, maybe it's just people who are not really on the same wavelength.
Guest:And I've had that conversation where people are like, I don't know.
Guest:it's just weird.
Guest:Why do I have to say they or them?
Guest:It's like, that's a plural thing.
Guest:And I can't like, it just seems weird.
Guest:And I'm like, okay, it's weird.
Guest:End of story.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like now just try it.
Guest:There's like, there's probably plenty of weird things that you think, you know, things you think are weird, but then you just do you like plenty of things, drive in a car where you're like, Oh God, why do I have to do this?
Guest:Like I got a signal every time I move from this thing to the next.
Guest:It's like, yeah, you do.
Marc:You do it by the way, everyone, you do it.
Marc:And I can't stand the people that don't.
Marc:Just try to put the goddamn signal on.
Marc:Even if it's just for like the one blink.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Just do the one blink.
Marc:That's fine.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Try to use the pronouns that the person wants you to use.
Marc:Like, please.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Don't be that non-signaler.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, good.
Guest:I'm glad you got as much out of these episodes this week as I did, and I hope our listeners did as well.
Guest:Also, the Creation Museum episode.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:Our bonus content.
Guest:Yeah, I always forget.
Guest:Man, it's another week.
Guest:Not to say that we had planned, obviously, to put Richard's episode up, but man, we put so many episodes up, I always forget that we had that one.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that was a great darn episode.
Marc:So I loved the Jurassic Park theme music, which I'm guessing is why this episode was altered, right?
Guest:It was that- It was all of that.
Guest:It was Jurassic Park.
Guest:It was the music that I used as kind of like- Go ahead.
Guest:Was that the Fantastic Mr. Fox theme?
Guest:It was.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's a fantastic Mr. Fox.
Marc:I'm listening to it in my ears.
Marc:I'm like, why do I know this song?
Marc:And yeah, that's great.
Guest:So yeah, that's the scene where he sees the wolf on the hill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I used it as like a coming to heaven type of soundscape for the end of the Creation Museum.
Guest:But yeah, just generally any of the music that we had underneath was stuff that I probably was pulling from somewhere that I shouldn't have.
Guest:And yeah, I had to redo it.
Guest:But other than that, not much else.
Guest:And yeah, I always feel like when I'm putting these things out there, I should just air them as they were if there's something in it to draw some context around.
Guest:Let's do that.
Guest:But I don't like, I don't want to censor these things.
Guest:I don't want to, you know, erase stuff from existence.
Marc:Yeah, I like that you prefaced this episode with that.
Marc:That was great.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That's how, I wish it was like that for everything.
Guest:Like, you know, when Disney Plus launched and they had those, like, disclaimers.
Guest:And then, you know, it became like a Fox News thing.
Guest:Like, oh, Disney, gone woke.
Guest:Right?
Guest:And it's like.
Guest:Such tech.
Guest:But that's a good thing.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But like the alternative to that was that they, you never see Dumbo again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:They're just like, oh, you're not going to see Dumbo.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because there's horrible Jim Crow style racism in it.
Guest:And, you know, put a sign.
Guest:Say like, hey, this is, you know, not appropriate now, but it's part of the history.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So go ahead and watch it.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:That's all you need, guys.
Marc:The outrage is really, I'm not a fan of outrage culture.
Guest:In either direction.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's like, there's no problem with that disclaimer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like the idea that the disclaimer is offensive to some people is crazy to me.
Marc:It's also two seconds of your life.
Marc:Get over it.
Marc:Like what?
Marc:You're probably looking at your phone anyway while that thing's happening.
Marc:Give me a break.
Guest:You know, the weirdest thing I saw this week, I probably, you know, I should never trust what I see online.
Marc:Oh yeah, no, I can't.
Guest:right i don't have any doubt that this is true is that there is a warning at the beginning of poor things now on digital that says you know contains disclaimer that says contains tobacco depiction yeah i'm guessing those people didn't watch the rest of poor things because there's a lot in that a lot of fucking yeah
Guest:Yeah, but also it's like with dead things and there's lots of dick play.
Marc:She's squatching a frog, like just a lot of stuff going on there, guys.
Guest:And I'm guessing the people who turned on poor things to watch this film made for adults are already aware of the dangers of smoking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I'm not sure who they're trying to get through to on that one.
Guest:It's like, oh, yeah, you know, the 12-year-old who happened upon poor things and is about to get quite an education in what goes on here with corpse love.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's a fun movie.
Marc:That's the movie I took my wife to on Tuesday.
Marc:That was a fun time.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, at the cinema.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you and I went to see another movie this week.
Guest:Oh, we sure did.
Guest:And I feel like I need to watch it again.
Guest:But I think for now what we can just do, look, I don't like spoiling films for people, but I feel like it's almost a public service to let our audience know that if, especially now as this movie sits still in movie theaters, if you're going to spend your hard-earned cash on Madam Web,
Guest:you should know some things about it.
Guest:And I feel like Chris and I are in a very good position to help you understand those things.
Guest:So, Chris, if I may, if we could do this, okay?
Guest:Can you try to explain the movie as though you were starting from scratch?
Guest:Someone was like, I'm here, I'm new to Earth.
Guest:Please tell me, what was this film you saw called Madam Webber?
Guest:And, uh, and what I will try to do is kind of fact check you or get you on or off the rails that you may or may not be on.
Guest:So why don't you tell our listeners for the full Marin as a, again, as a public service announcement, maybe, maybe the people out there, I know that, you know, not everybody loves superhero movies and frankly, like I'm hot and cold on them.
Guest:They're not like a, like a Uber nerd for this stuff, but we did go to see Madam web.
Guest:And I feel like,
Guest:We owe it to people to kind of explain not only the movie, but explain ourselves.
Guest:Like, why did we do this to ourselves?
Marc:So, Madam Web, Sony's Madam Web, in association with
Marc:With Marvel Comics.
Guest:Okay, I'll stop you right there.
Guest:Right off the bat.
Guest:It's literally the funniest moment of the whole movie.
Guest:We're seeing this in a packed movie theater, folks.
Guest:Packed.
Guest:Like, I couldn't believe it.
Guest:I thought this thing's such a huge bomb.
Guest:Nobody's going to be there.
Guest:But no, it was a full theater.
Guest:And, you know, frankly, we went to see it thinking this might be fun because we've heard it so bad.
Guest:So we should get that out of the way at first to the point where when I walked in the theater and I saw Chris sitting there and I walk in to this already crowded movie theater, I looked at him and I said, what the fuck are we doing with our lives?
Marc:Why am I doing this?
Marc:You weren't saying that afterwards, though.
Marc:That was a fun time.
Guest:Not only am I not saying it afterwards, after the movie, I've been thinking about it all week to the point where I'm like, we've got to talk about this on Friday.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So you're sitting there now.
Guest:This is, as Chris mentioned, Sony's Madam Web, which is different than the Marvel movies.
Guest:Marvel is its own studio, right?
Guest:They're purchased by Disney, but the Marvel movies come from Marvel Studios.
Guest:Sony is essentially grandfathered in to a deal they had making the Spider-Man movies before Marvel set up its own Marvel Studios.
Guest:And so these Sony movies can exist in a certain Marvel universe that does not involve any of the other Marvel characters.
Guest:So that's why you get...
Guest:morbius and venom right and now madam web but they're not associated with any other superhero and in fact they cannot in these movies mention spider-man right because he's now been licensed by marvel studios to appear in their movies that's part of the deal to basically allow sony to live right
Guest:Like, that's their, like, Dread Pirate Roberts bargain that lets them live another day, is that they can make these movies, but they can't just straight up make Spider-Man movies unless the MCU is involved, right?
Guest:So this thing starts out, and it shows the thing you've seen many times if you've seen any of these movies, that, like, Marvel, almost flipbook-style logo that comes up on the screen in red and white.
Guest:And it says, Marvel.
Guest:But then above it, ghosting into the frame, it says, in association with Marvel.
Guest:And Chris, sitting next to me in this silent theater, is getting ready to watch its movie, goes, ooh.
Yeah.
Guest:that oof like that made me laugh harder than anything in the actual movie because it like it cascaded right like other people in the theater were laughing at the idea like it occurred to them like oh no like this is not really a marvel movie right it's adjacent but yeah yes right it's like it's the essence of marvel it's like la croix like like a seltzer that has a nice toasted coconut flavor to it
Guest:So bad.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Continue.
Guest:Explain Madam Web in association with Marvel Pictures.
Marc:So in the 70s, this woman is in the Amazon for some reason.
Marc:And she's taking photos.
Marc:And she's trying to find a spider.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A spider that will have magical powers.
Marc:And she has this assistant who is handing her an umbrella and trying to help.
Marc:And she's like, listen, I don't have time for this umbrella.
Marc:I need to find this spider because I'm nine months pregnant right now.
Marc:So she goes off and tries to find... Nine months she went on this trip.
Yeah.
Marc:That comes up later.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And so her assistant runs off to her tent to take secret photos of her books and all of her research.
Marc:And in the meantime, she finds the spider off camera.
Marc:And she has the spider in a glass cylinder.
Marc:And...
Marc:The guy comes out of the tent while she's showing all of the other research people that she found the spider.
Marc:And the assistant pulls out a gun and starts shooting everyone.
Marc:He murders everyone.
Marc:Everyone.
Marc:They're all dead right away.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Except the woman with the spider.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:The pregnant woman with the spider.
Marc:And she, instead of just giving this person the spider, because there's probably many more spiders that she could find.
Marc:She is like, no, you can't take it.
Marc:And they have a tussle.
Marc:And he accidentally shoots her and runs off with the spider in the glass.
Guest:Which made me wonder, why did she get the explanation?
Guest:Everyone else got just totally shot in cold blood.
Guest:And she's the one with the spider.
Guest:He should just shoot everybody and just take the thing.
Guest:But she gets in a tussle with him and is shot, but not immediately killed.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Right?
Marc:No, because she gets shot and all of a sudden we hear some rustling of the trees and the guy, you know, the villain of the movie is like looking up, runs away, and all of a sudden these spider people...
Marc:come running down the trees to whisk this woman to this cave.
Marc:It's like a pool where they have a spider, the same spider that she caught, but I guess like a different one.
Marc:This spider, you know, bites her and...
Marc:Then she gives birth to a baby, and then she dies.
Guest:Yeah, I guess what you're supposed to believe is that the bite rejuvenated her enough that the baby could be born?
Marc:Ah, yes.
Marc:Yeah, I think you're right.
Marc:I think you're right.
Guest:And it's all done by these, you know, spider people tribesmen, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Which is ultimately, in this movie, represented by one guy.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Like he's the only guy you ever get from this tribe.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Like this one dude who talks about the tribe.
Guest:He's not an individual.
Guest:He's not like, oh, I'm the only guy with this stuff.
Guest:It's like all these spider men that are around, but he's just the only one they could afford to give, you know, lines to or something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or even show him on camera.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But yes, the spider bites and allows her to give birth to this baby.
Guest:And she doesn't survive, but the baby does.
Guest:And as you'll find out much later, is given many other gifts as well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then also the guy who took the spider, he took it for a reason, which we're going to find out later, is that it gave him superpowers too, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:Why are spiders that bite giving powers?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like I get it.
Guest:Like in the, in Spider-Man, the story is like by a radioactive spider.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But in the wild with what like natural selection is, a spider is supposed to have venom to bite you.
Guest:So you don't eat it or kill it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like these spiders are not good, like for survival for their own species.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They're like making everything else superpowered, not them.
Marc:It's bizarre.
Marc:It's like I no one will.
Marc:They don't explain it, although I'm sure there's a book in her mom in this character's case that explains why they give this spider gives off superpowers.
Marc:What?
Marc:won't be the last thing they don't know and frankly virtually everything is not explained right so the spider-man or no no sorry spider person in that they are very aware not to ever say spider and man in the same sentence which is i think they they probably separated by like eight pages every time
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Like they have a guy on set, script supervisor.
Guest:He's like, ah, this man is too close to this spider.
Guest:We have to push three more pages in here.
Marc:Yeah, no, we got to find and replace every man and call it a person, please.
Marc:Control F. This spider person's like, don't worry, we'll take care of the baby and she'll come back.
Marc:We'll give the baby away.
Marc:She'll come back when she's ready.
Marc:Smash cut to...
Marc:2003, and we see Dakota Johnson, who is the protagonist of this story, and she is an EMT, and she is driving the ambulance around New York with a guy in the back who's doing chest compressions, and this is the baby that lived from the spider person.
Marc:So...
Marc:She's a nice EMT.
Marc:She has a lovely life where she's saving someone's life.
Marc:And we meet her partner, Ben Parker.
Marc:Ever heard of him?
Marc:Uncle Ben from the Spider-Man mythology, I suppose.
Marc:And we see her interact with Ben.
Marc:They talk about going to, I guess, Ben's sister's baby shower for
Marc:some reason he's uncle ben right right so so we're led to believe that peter parker is is a you know in in a womb somewhere and uh you know in in mary parker's belly and this is his baby shower so we're well not yet well but we're we're introduced to the invitation to that
Marc:So we meet this woman and she seems fine.
Marc:She doesn't know how to drink soda, which is really staggering and shocking.
Guest:You'll never recover from watching that soda can.
Guest:Dude.
Guest:Because then the whole rest of the movie, all you're going to watch.
Guest:So she's at the hospital and Adam Scott, who is playing Ben, thanklessly, poor Adam Scott.
Guest:But he hands her a soda can.
Guest:And if you are watching that soda can, you will not be able to take your eyes off the fact that she never opens it.
Guest:She twiddles with it.
Guest:She's like teasing that she will pop that top.
Guest:But then she like turns it on its side or like kind of moves her fingers down to the bottom of the can.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like transfixing.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:This soda can will not be opened.
Guest:And so then later they go to a barbecue to the baby shower that we just mentioned.
Guest:And she's handed a Pepsi.
Guest:Lots of Pepsi products throughout this whole movie.
Guest:Climacted.
Guest:battle is fought on the pepsi sign over in queens yeah so lots of pepsi this was paid for you would think that with that much money invested in it some pepsi rep would have been on set and was like have her take a nice long swig of that pepsi tell how refreshing it is she will not open this can she has it for for
Guest:Five minutes.
Marc:Minutes.
Marc:Minutes on screen.
Marc:And it's just a prop that she is like inelegantly holding.
Marc:It is so hilarious.
Marc:I was tracking it.
Guest:I was watching it like I was moving my entire head and body following the can like as it would slowly drift out of frame.
Guest:Like I was...
Guest:pushing myself up in my seat like by my hands like can i maybe see it beneath the frame and see if it opens up down there like i was so it was like uh when everyone is watching the dvd uh a screensaver oh in the office behind michael scott yeah and in the office yeah and it's like bouncing and they're like they're waiting for it to go in the corner like that's how i felt watching this soda can
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:100%.
Marc:So she is soda intolerant, but likes holding the thing.
Marc:And we are slowly met to these three girls.
Marc:I'm going to say girls because that's how they're sort of.
Guest:They keep calling them the girls and they're teenagers, although they're all in their 20s for real.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, so we're met with Sidney Sweeney's character, who's a nerd, and how do I know... Total nerd, yeah.
Marc:How do I know that she's a nerd?
Marc:Well, she's dressed up in glasses.
Guest:Yes, she's glasses and like a, I guess, supposed to look like a school uniform.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, it's very much like the sexy schoolgirl look, but she's a nerd, everybody.
Guest:Like, just let's be clear.
Marc:Right.
Marc:No, she's Britney Spears' outfit in Baby, Hit Me Baby One More Time.
Marc:But they're like, it's a little too sexy.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:Let's just give her some glasses.
Marc:Glasses and a sweater.
Marc:Nerd.
Marc:And so.
Marc:So, we're met with Cindy Sweeney.
Marc:We're met with two other women, girls, who, you know, one of them, like, her rent is due in Dakota Johnson's apartment building.
Marc:And so, she's having trouble paying the rent.
Marc:Another one is a skateboarder who is skateboarding like Marty McFly does in Back to the Future.
Guest:Yes, those –
Guest:Those other two are not as famous as Sidney Sweeney, who's now the star of big rom-coms and everything.
Guest:But Isabella Merced and Celeste O'Connor are the other two unfortunate young actors roped into this.
Guest:What they, I'm sure, thought when they heard from their agents was a fantastic opportunity to be in a blockbuster superhero movie.
Marc:Yes, absolutely.
Marc:And that's how we're introduced to the third spider person.
Marc:And I say spider person because we go to our villain and our villain's having a nightmare.
Marc:The nightmare is he is an old person and he is getting attacked by these people, these spider women.
Marc:And for some reason, he dies in his vision.
Marc:And he is then jolted up
Marc:And he is with a woman who's like, hey, baby, what's wrong?
Marc:And for some reason, his dialogue is dubbed.
Marc:Did you notice that?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The whole movie, he was full ADR.
Guest:I'm not sure it's dubbed by another actor.
Guest:I think they might have had him dubbed himself.
Guest:It's either his voice or someone else's, but it's clearly dubbed.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So this...
Marc:who's the same guy who shot Dakota Johnson's mom in the 70s.
Marc:He basically looks exactly the same.
Marc:And he is... He's having nightmares of these three spider women who kill him.
Marc:So...
Marc:He then steals an NSA agent's, like, security, and he gets to, you know, have control of, you know, homeland security, basically.
Marc:Although he has a hench person, this woman for the... Who's the girl from Girls?
Guest:Oh, Sasha Mamet.
Guest:Sasha Mamet's daughter.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Delightful seeing her.
Guest:But clearly doesn't understand why she's in this film.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:And we don't either.
Marc:But it's...
Marc:But she's behind this, the computer, computer screens.
Marc:It looks a lot.
Marc:She's the guy in the chair.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:She's the guy in the chair for the villain.
Marc:And it's like, it's like Lucius Fox and Batman when in, in the dark night where there are all these screens and they can see all the, the, the, the cameras from, from, from highways and streets and ATMs.
Marc:And she's just like, wow, what is this technology?
Marc:Where, where'd you get this?
Marc:And like, he's like, Oh, the,
Marc:NSA.
Marc:And I'm just like, wait a second, it's 2003, right?
Marc:This is like, this is, you know, the Patriot Act.
Marc:Like, this should be a very known thing.
Guest:There's no surprise with any of this stuff at this point.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Everybody's aware.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So she is tasked with finding these three girls or women.
Guest:From his vision.
Marc:From his vision.
Marc:But
Marc:As he, you know, as he has told her that, oh, well, A, they have masks and B, I'm really old in my visions.
Marc:So you have to A, de-age them and then B, you have to see what they look like without their masks, which she then with a few strokes of the.
Marc:Boop, boop, boop, boop.
Guest:it's like all right well here is from your descriptions of your dreams this is what those women would look like now wait everybody's seen like a police sketch right like it takes a little time you explain right it looks like this and then they all like generally look like some version of the unabomber right like it's a roughly around unabomber look for anybody yeah
Guest:What does she come up with on the basis of his description of these people who he believes are going to kill him at some undetermined time in the future?
Guest:These girls like headshots.
Guest:Photorealistic shots.
Guest:In fact, I think they are just photos.
Guest:I don't think there's any kind of drawing whatsoever.
Guest:I mean, it is bad.
Guest:bananas uh so okay hang on i want to pause you for a second though everything you've explained is true yeah the gaps here are why is this guy have this stuff like what does he do right what's his what is his villainous like where what what why is he bad like we know he's bad we know in his vision he's killed by these spider women but why
Guest:Is he an arms dealer?
Guest:Right.
Guest:There's nothing else.
Guest:No drug.
Guest:We just know he's a guy who has the spider.
Guest:He killed this person in the past and took the spider and killed everybody down there.
Guest:But we don't know any other reason.
Guest:We don't know what him having the spider powers has done for him in his life.
Guest:He picked up this woman and he's bedding her.
Guest:So maybe that's all.
Guest:Maybe he's just like a gigolo, a swinger.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:A playboy.
Guest:But what...
Guest:Right.
Guest:Whatever it is, he's he is wary enough of humanity that he's afraid of being killed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So he wakes up after having this dream multiple times and decides his solution is to kill these three girls.
Guest:That seems like quite a leap to me.
Guest:Because he has spent years, apparently, pumping himself with this spider poison, right?
Guest:So at night, he goes to sleep and has recurring dreams where sexy spider ladies come to kill him.
Guest:Do you think, dude, maybe this has something to do with the spider poison you're pumping into yourself?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:because i know that when i eat kung pao chicken at midnight and then i have dreams that a giant chicken sits on me i don't wake up and think i must kill all chickens like that is not that is not how this works i
Guest:I think it might be my fault as to what I'm putting in my body that's causing me to have these dreams.
Guest:All of a sudden, this guy is like, oh, I know for certain I got to kill these girls.
Marc:Yeah, it's like, oh, no, I keep dreaming of clowns.
Marc:I'm going to murder all these clowns.
Guest:Yeah, Ronald McDonald, you're fucking dead.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, because then his solution is, once he's shown the pictures, his solution is, oh, I will just go find them and kill them in broad daylight wherever they stand.
Guest:So how do we know he's going to do this?
Guest:Because...
Guest:Cassandra Webb, which we find out is her name, Cassie Webb, is Dakota Johnson's character.
Guest:Cassandra Webb has had an accident during an EMT rescue mission where she's plunged underwater, and she now can see a few seconds or sometimes 10 minutes into the future.
Guest:Yeah, it's not clear.
Guest:Very unclear how this happens.
Guest:It's also...
Guest:As it's happening, unclear what's even happening.
Guest:This movie cannot figure out how to communicate to you that she is seeing into the future.
Guest:Maybe it's supposed to be confusing because it's confusing to her, but I can tell you this, it's never not confusing to the audience.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:There's never a point where they figure out how to do this thing, which, by the way, has been happening very legibly in films for 31 years now, ever since Bill Murray made a low budget comedy about this exact premise where you repeat things and the audience can see, oh, they're reliving that moment again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there are these flash forwards that then have to get relived in this movie.
Guest:And it is so confusing.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You'll never understand it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's one scene in particular where she is figuring out her powers and she is going to her apartment because she had this accident.
Marc:She's told to go home and watch old movies.
Marc:And we cut to her on her couch watching an old, like a Christmas carol in the summer.
Guest:During the summer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like a real psychopath.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I'm guessing like, you know, Christmas Carol, it's about like, you know, Christmas future.
Marc:I guess that's the connection there.
Guest:Yeah, that was it.
Marc:Seeing into the future.
Marc:But this version of the Christmas Carol is basically from like the public domain.
Marc:It's like that old.
Guest:Yes, that's where they had it.
Guest:It's the old Alistair Sims version.
Marc:Yeah, no one would ever watch this.
Marc:But she's watching this movie, and she turns off the movie at a specific line of dialogue from Scrooge.
Marc:The microwave beeps because the popcorn is done.
Marc:She gets up to get the bag.
Marc:She breaks a bowl, and then a bird flies into her apartment window and dies.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:So she goes to check on the bird.
Marc:It's dead.
Marc:All of a sudden, when she's at the window, the microwave beeps again.
Marc:And then the TV is on and Scrooge says the line that he says before she turned off the TV.
Marc:But it was like the line from like the beginning of the scene.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:This is so easy to storyboard.
Marc:Like, have you seen my storyboards?
Marc:And like, they just immediately fuck it up.
Marc:Like, it's unbelievable.
Guest:Okay, but hang on.
Guest:I want to stop you there and I want to take a second to regard the lead performance in this film because it is a thing of wonder, quite frankly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What is your impression by this point where maybe we had been a half hour into watching this movie, which is crazy because nothing really happened in any way you could explain.
Guest:What was your impression by this point of Dakota Johnson's lead performance in
Guest:as the never-named Madam Web, which I think is also hilarious.
Guest:The whole movie, she's never called by that.
Marc:She is just mildly annoyed the entire movie.
Marc:At everyone.
Marc:It's like this whole thing, her entire life is an imposition.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like, like it is, this is all like happening to her for some reason and she just needs to get through it.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:So that's, she's not going to fight crime.
Guest:she's not she's not thinking what do i do with these magnificent new powers i've discovered where i can see 10 seconds to 90 seconds into the future however you maybe could use that i don't know it's something she doesn't want to be dealing with but i get the sense that like that's everything for this character this character just doesn't want to do anything
Marc:Like her job, like interacting with colleagues, like taking care of these girls for some reason.
Marc:Like it's all the same level of nuisance.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:This is all just a nuisance.
Guest:There's a quote from a writer named Mike Ryan who kind of hit upon this very integral thing to the Star Wars universe.
Guest:The initial movies work as well as they do.
Guest:And everyone wonders, like, why are the prequels bad?
Guest:Or why don't the, like, J.J.
Guest:Abrams movies measure up?
Guest:And his whole thing is that those initial movies have Han Solo.
Guest:And that it's not enough to have just, like, a guy playing, like, a rogue character.
Guest:You know, like Oscar Isaac does in the newer movies.
Guest:The thing that made Han Solo work so well...
Guest:and actually tied the whole movie together, was that Han Solo was played by a guy who thinks Star Wars is stupid.
Guest:And that makes it all work.
Guest:Because he's a kind of audience surrogate for people who aren't fully bought in.
Guest:And you can let all this ridiculous stuff happen and know, well, there is at least one guy there who thinks this is dumb.
Guest:And then by the end, he's won over.
Guest:And so you should be won over as well, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So take that premise and apply it really for the first time I can ever think of the lead character in a superhero film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Although she never gets to the point where she's won over and cool with it.
Marc:She tries to act like it at the very end.
Marc:Still doesn't come through.
No.
Guest:In fact, all I could think of was she was like, this is the last scene, right?
Guest:We shot this in order and this is the last scene and I'm done.
Marc:She's like waiting for a cut to happen.
Marc:Like just, just wants it to be over so fast.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:Uh, all right.
Guest:Well, so now we go back to this guy trying to kill these young women in broad daylight, which, which I mean, he, uh,
Marc:It's so confusing, dude.
Marc:Like, there's a scene at Metro North where Dakota Johnson is sitting on a subway.
Marc:And there's, again, like this Groundhog's Day type of sequence that should be happening.
Marc:But it just doesn't connect at all.
Marc:Like, there's a conductor that says that the train is coming in.
Marc:She takes off her jacket.
Marc:And then the train screeches.
Marc:And she winces.
Marc:And then one of the girls gets on the train.
Marc:And then all of a sudden, the conductor says that the train is coming into the station.
Marc:She has her jacket back on.
Marc:And this time, a different girl gets on the train.
Guest:A different girl.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's not the same.
Guest:Like, this is a time loop.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Like, loops.
Guest:They're supposed to.
Guest:The same thing is supposed to happen.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So a different girl gets on, but the other girl is still there, like sitting there.
Marc:It's baffling.
Marc:It's all, it's all supposed to be the same beats, but it's all just wrong.
Marc:They just, it's poorly executed.
Guest:So-
Guest:But so then these things also, they never give you the sense of like, when are you in the past?
Guest:When are you in the present?
Guest:And when are you in the future?
Guest:Because then she starts to have this vision of our friend with the spider bite coming onto the train and just choke slams these girls to death.
Marc:Like he's, he's like a wrestler.
Marc:Just, just, just murdering them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I just love though.
Guest:That's his murder choice.
Guest:Like, like this is his master plan.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's like, I'm going to go do WrestleMania on the Metro North and kill them and
Guest:And with my face showing, this is also post 9-11.
Guest:There will be lots of cameras everywhere, but that's okay.
Guest:I'll just go do this thing.
Guest:And Madam Web, who he does not know exists, will see me in the future doing it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And so she's having this vision of this guy who is not in a mask or anything, but then we do get cuts of him in the mask first.
Marc:for some reason so we know like so she's she's not seeing just the future but she's seeing like the secret of the future like his secret identity is revealed in this future vision it's so confusing so she just gets up and and says before this guy can come near them hey get off you're gonna die if you stay on this train and
Marc:But only to the three girls.
Guest:There's other people on this train.
Guest:Yes, there's an old lady.
Guest:In 2003.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:There's something that happened two years before that that I think would make everyone run off the train.
Marc:Also, maybe tackle her.
Marc:Like, I don't know.
Marc:It just seems pretty bad to scream that.
Guest:But nobody else even flinches.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Like, they just take it as a given.
Guest:Like, wait, get off the train.
Guest:Me?
Guest:Oh, no, no.
Guest:Just the hot ones?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That's fine.
Marc:They get on a different train and the spider guy sees Madam Web and she's – Madam Web is trying to convince the three spider girls that, hey, someone's trying to kill you.
Marc:And they're like, well, who?
Marc:And she points like, that guy.
Marc:And we cut to evil Spider-Man for some reason.
Yeah.
Guest:So now he's in the similar suit to the thing that the spider person was in at the beginning of the movie in the 70s, but his is a darker version, like dark Brandon spider suit.
Guest:But also what I can't understand is why all of these...
Guest:spider suits look like spider-man right like spider-man according to this movie is not yet born right right and then in spider-man the lore of spider-man is that he invented the costume as a wrestling outfit for himself
Guest:So why are there already pre-existing exact duplicates of Spider-Man that then no one ever remembered ever?
Guest:And no one ever told actual Spider-Man about these guys.
Guest:Hey, you know that suit?
Guest:It looks like those crazy ass spider people that invaded the Pepsi sign.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I mean, how?
Marc:Like this happened in your backyard.
Marc:There'd be statues of these people.
Marc:He lives in Queens.
Marc:The Pepsi sign is in Queens.
Yeah.
Guest:it's so baffling honestly um but well but you didn't even get to the most baffling thing because now madam webb steals a taxi oh my god this scene straight up steals it she runs out they run out of this this grand central station and she jumps in a taxi and drives away grand theft auto yep total criminal right now yes and
Marc:And she takes the girls.
Marc:She realizes that they are her alibi.
Marc:So they can't leave.
Marc:So what does she do?
Marc:Well, smash cut from Grand Central Station in New York City to the woods.
Marc:The deep woods.
Marc:It might as well be Minnesota.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And she's like, okay, you girls, you stay here for three hours.
Marc:I'm going to go figure out what's going on.
Marc:It's the most baffling thing ever.
Marc:Like, to be in New York City and then just to be in the deep woods was... Like, they needed deep woods off where they were.
Guest:Like, there were vicious bugs attacking them.
Marc:Like, just a choice.
Marc:So...
Marc:In that three hours time, she's going to figure out what's happening.
Marc:But these girls should stay exactly here because she knows exactly where to go to find them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Spoiler alert.
Marc:They leave.
Marc:They walk like, I don't know.
Marc:two minutes to a diner, which is just also not in New York City.
Marc:But during this time, Madam Webb still has the stolen cab, goes back to her apartment where she, for some reason, has a crowbar on the ground and she just takes off the license plates from the front and back of her car.
Marc:License plates are screwed into your car.
Marc:You don't just pop them off
Marc:from your car.
Guest:But also... Easier than you can a soda can, I guess.
Marc:Right, yes.
Marc:But it's still a yellow cab taxi with... Numbers right on top.
Marc:Numbers, like, right there.
Marc:Where she is A, a Grand Theft Auto, like we said...
Marc:B, it is known that she is like an Amber Alert person where, you know- Wait, wait, wait.
Guest:But you're just saying that she's an Amber Alert.
Guest:Okay, that happens quickly.
Guest:You know what doesn't happen quickly?
Guest:What?
Guest:That stuff gets put in the newspaper, right?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:They're at a diner.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:And that's how the bad guy finds out that they're there because somebody at the diner makes a 911 call, a trucker.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Because he's sitting there reading the late edition of the newspaper.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Because it had gotten dark.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:On the cover of this newspaper, it says three girls abducted from Grand Central Station by a woman.
Guest:I don't remember how it... It was a very wordy thing.
Guest:But this is like the instantaneous newspaper that was beamed to this diner in the woods outside New York City.
Marc:It's like Harry Potter's world where the newspapers are just morphing into the news.
Marc:Holy shit, you're right.
Marc:That happens so fast.
Marc:Holy hell.
Guest:One might say impossibly fast.
Guest:The impossible part meaning it cannot happen.
Marc:Not at all.
Marc:So these girls go to the diner because they're starving.
Marc:And they're eating.
Marc:They meet up with their boys.
Marc:They meet some boys, yeah.
Marc:All three of them are dancing on top of a table.
Marc:to britney spears toxic so dakota uh johnson goes back to the woods and she sees oh the girls have left all right i'm gonna i'm gonna run off on foot and she gets to the diner where the spider guy is in full costume and
Marc:again murders these girls to which she then is we cut back to her in the woods where she's by the car where right where so that vision she just had is is many minutes in the future well no not many like the the the the length of toxic yes yes so so the britney spears song is now just coming onto the radio station
Marc:So now she thinks, I'm going to save some time.
Marc:I'm going to get in the car and drive to this diner.
Marc:She then gets to the diner later than when she originally walked there in her previous vision, where the spider guy is choking some other patrons, about to get to the girls, where she crashes her car into the diner and...
Marc:I guess just knocking him unconscious and then tells the girls, Hey, come on, let's leave.
Marc:They get in the car and leave and drive away.
Marc:And the bad guy is just, he unmasks himself and asks his, uh, hench woman, Hey, how is that lady doing that?
Marc:Like, yeah, he doesn't leave the scene.
Marc:He's just there.
Marc:Like, like as if he's like a detective, like, like, and he's supposed to be there.
Marc:It doesn't make any sense.
Marc:Um,
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:Yay.
Marc:So they get away and Dakota Johnson's explaining that she can see the future.
Marc:But then Dakota Johnson's like, listen, I got to figure out some stuff.
Marc:I'm going to go to the Amazon.
Marc:So you're going to go with uncle Ben and you're going to stay with him for weeks.
Marc:I don't even understand.
Guest:Like, well, I don't know how, how long does it take to get to and back from Peru and
Guest:And while you're in Peru, meet spider people and go to do a full investigation of the place where your mother was killed.
Guest:And, you know, this is a very unfussy international trip she takes.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So she goes to the Amazon and, I don't know, takes a different cab and is just walking in the Amazon and finds the exact spot.
Marc:Wait a minute.
Marc:What's up?
Guest:I'm just realizing something.
Guest:What's up?
Guest:Her name is Cassandra Webb.
Guest:Cassie Webb, they call her.
Guest:So her mom was also named Webb.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she was studying spiders.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, that would be like if my name was Mike Graffone.
Guest:Mike Graffone.
Guest:why why didn't anyone like say that and ever at any point in this movie was like wait your mom studied spiders your name's web wow that's crazy like i don't be the only thing i ever talked to her about
Marc:It's like, wow, you're an undertaker and your last name's Tombstone?
Marc:That's amazing!
Marc:You were born for this line of work.
Marc:I'm pretty sure The Amazing Spider-Man was directed by some guy named Webb.
Marc:It was, yes, Mark Webb.
Marc:Yeah, so another guy.
Guest:No one ever didn't ask him about that, I guarantee you.
Guest:Wait, your name's Mark Webb?
Guest:You're making Spider-Man?
Guest:He's like, yeah, I did a lot of other things, 500 Days of Summer.
Guest:No, no, no, but wait.
Guest:Your name is Mark Webb, and you're making Spider-Man.
Marc:So she meets up in the Amazon with the spider people, or just a guy, and just explains her mom's predicament, and she sees a vision from the past of her mom.
Marc:The reason why she went to the Amazon was because she has a disease, and
Marc:And she doesn't want her kid to have it.
Marc:And so these spiders will help with this disease.
Guest:But the kid has it.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:The doctor in the vision says your baby has this and there's nothing we can do about it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:She says, this is a neuromuscular disorder, and there's nothing we can do about it.
Guest:And Dakota Johnson, God bless her, has to deliver the line.
Guest:As she's standing there in an astral projection, essentially, in this doctor's office from the past, Dakota Johnson, watching this all play out in front of her, says, but I don't have a neuromuscular disorder.
LAUGHTER
Marc:chef's kiss i mean give her an oscar for that just for doing it like like she didn't quit on the spot you you've earned an award yeah oh and by the way make her host the oscars like let her do all kinds of fun stuff because she deserves it she should be the spokesperson for pepsi that's for sure
Guest:But she has this kind of like, like her amused detachment from everything is true.
Guest:Like people were loving her like press tour for this movie.
Guest:And it's for the same reason.
Guest:It's because she like, she has this like skill at like weaponizing her disinterest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Her indifference.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Yes.
Marc:And it always comes off as charming.
Guest:Yeah, that's the only thing.
Guest:You're not like, oh, God, she's so off-putting.
Guest:You're like, I kind of want to hang out with Dakota Johnson.
Guest:100%.
Guest:Like, I want her to roast me.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like, that's the kind of thing.
Guest:Like, you're like, hey, maybe you could, like, talk some shit about me right now.
Guest:I really like that.
Guest:That'd be great.
Marc:So she, with this new Amazon knowledge, heads back to New York where –
Guest:ben parker has been cooped up with these three girls in his house for like five days a week two weeks like yeah sometime and he's still running this slumber party like he's there like he's like okay now what are we putting on the tv here and we're okay here's your popcorn and they're like hitting each other with pillows or whatever it's like this has been going on
Guest:For a very long time.
Guest:And you all know that you're about to be killed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like that you've been told this.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That a guy showed up at a diner you were at and tried to kill you.
Guest:He tried to kill you on a train.
Guest:And they're just kind of been chilling for a week, watching movies, eating Uncle Ben's popcorn.
Guest:They're like geniuses, too.
Guest:That's the other thing.
Guest:They make a point of the one girl has a shirt that says, I eat math for breakfast, which our friend Matt.
Guest:Was watching this and thought the shirt said something else.
Guest:But he... They make it very clear.
Guest:These are like... It's like Peter Parker.
Guest:He was a genius and that's why he's able to handle being Spider-Man.
Guest:So they're going to be able to handle this too.
Guest:It's 2003.
Guest:They can't hop on the internet and try to figure this out for the week while Cassandra Webb is gone.
Guest:Hey, how do we protect our lives while this apparent terrorist tries to kill us?
Guest:Nope.
Guest:Gonna sit around at Uncle Ben's house and watch movies and eat popcorn.
Marc:I mean, just think of it in movie terms.
Marc:It's like...
Marc:if this was Terminator two and, uh, you know, Sarah Khan is like, Hey, we gotta, we gotta protect you.
Marc:And he's just like goofing around and not, not taking his, it's like, no, what, what is this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You would not act like this.
Guest:I've never seen a movie where the, uh, the hero is charged with protecting, you know, some wards of some kind and twice leaves them completely alone.
Yeah.
Marc:for totally vulnerable and completely unguarded yes so i actually forget why do they leave the house like ben's house uh because peter parker is about to be delivered oh that's right because the water that was yeah of course uh uh peter parker is about to be born and ben who's an emt is like whoa whoa whoa i'm shit out of ideas we gotta let's go to a hospital yeah
Marc:So they call an ambulance, but like, no, we got to take your car.
Marc:And he's like, whoa, I don't know what to do.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And I'm like, dude, you're an EMT.
Marc:You probably do this all the time.
Marc:Yeah, just get there.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, yeah.
Marc:But no, he drives off with the girls, with Peter Parker's mom to the hospital.
Marc:Cassandra gets to the apartment.
Marc:She's back just in time.
Marc:Just in time.
Marc:Got that red eye from Peru.
Marc:All she does is peer in the window.
Marc:She doesn't see anyone, but you know what she does see?
Marc:She sees a bunch of piss on the floor, and she knows immediately.
Marc:It's not piss.
Guest:Chris is not exactly sure how babies are born.
Guest:He's like, so when a baby's coming, you just piss everywhere, and that's to tell people that it's coming.
Marc:I mean, you know, the whole, you know, the big thing that the baby's in, that's the sack.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You've heard the term, my water broke.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:That's right, okay.
Marc:Anyway, someone spilled the water.
Guest:Wait, wait, so you just think water is piss, no matter what?
Guest:If it comes out of the body, it's piss?
Marc:Well...
Marc:I mean, I'm sure it's, you know, it gets mixed together.
Marc:It's not just a clear liquid.
Guest:No, it doesn't get mixed with piss at all.
Marc:Your baby would die if it was mixed with piss.
Marc:I mean, on the way out, it's like popping a balloon, a water balloon.
Marc:Like, you know, it's coming.
Guest:Chris, we're going to have to get you one of those visible models where you can put the human figure together.
Marc:Oh, boy.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, anatomy.
Guest:But yes, she just does see a giant puddle on the ground and decides, oh, I got to get to the hospital.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So she steals the ambulance.
Marc:She's great at that.
Guest:Yeah, she's so good.
Marc:She's played Grand Theft Auto.
Marc:She is on it.
Marc:And so she steals this ambulance and is racing to, I guess, the same hospital where...
Marc:The villain shows up and intercepts Ben Parker and the girls and is about to throw a grenade at them, like some weird grenade, when Cassandra, who is just driving, I'm guessing, on a bridge or something?
Guest:No, no, she drives in through a parking garage.
Guest:So it's like one of those movie-only parking garages that spirals up through a building and...
Guest:And then she is able to know exactly what level to be at so she can drive the ambulance through the wall of the parking garage.
Guest:Yeah, completely blind.
Guest:It's not a window.
Guest:Just imagine the wall behind you right there.
Guest:There's a wall behind you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just...
Guest:Drive through it.
Guest:That's essentially... You don't know what's on the other side of that.
Guest:You don't know, but something is telling her there's a bad guy nearby.
Guest:So I must drive through this wall.
Guest:Concrete wall.
Marc:Blindly.
Marc:So this ambulance is now...
Marc:In the sky, the villain looks up and then the villain just jumps and the ambulance catches him.
Marc:The ambulance hits him.
Guest:Yeah, he shouldn't have gone anywhere.
Guest:He should have just let the ambulance fly over his head, then throw a grenade, kill everyone, credits.
Marc:Yes, but no, he jumps into the moving ambulance in the sky and he gets hurt.
Marc:The grenade eventually goes off.
Marc:He tells them to go and they go.
Marc:What actually happens after that?
Marc:I just remember laughing a whole lot.
Guest:they just say go we gotta go to this place so they run into a warehouse where there's lots of fireworks oh that's right yes so they they then go to uh what is that the lower what is that uh no it's like long island city because it's right by the pepsi sign yes and there's an abandoned building there that has that's just housed with fireworks that they knew of they oh well they knew of because she saw the future so she's like oh we'll go there because there's fireworks and
Marc:What kind of factory is this?
Marc:Like, Milhouse would love this from The Simpsons.
Marc:Well, also, here's the other thing.
Guest:Why does her future vision tell her to go to the fireworks factory if they didn't know there was a fireworks factory?
Guest:Like, she only knows to go there because she sees a future vision of them being in there.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:Where did it start?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where's the starting point for getting to that fireworks factory?
Marc:There's no knowledge of it.
Marc:So they're in the fireworks factory.
Marc:And her idea is like, you know what?
Marc:Let's take all these flares and let's just light a bunch of crates on fire.
Marc:And all these fireworks will go off distracting the spider guy.
Guest:Because, again, she has a vision where she knows we've got to get him up to the Pepsi sign somehow.
Guest:Because in the vision, the S is falling off the Pepsi site.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I mean, this part is so confusing because they're trying to get to the top of the building to get rescued by a helicopter.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But she's also seen the helicopter in her vision, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's why.
Guest:But then when they get to the top where the helicopter is, the helicopter is blown up by someone.
Guest:Why didn't she see that?
Guest:right it's the most it's so not helpful her her power is her power is is like it's like if you were a superhero you would want to get rid of that that would be like like you know how wolverine he has the blades come out but they hurt him right like so he's always trying they're always trying to figure out oh what can we do wolverine to make this not painful or something like
Guest:her power is the side effect you want to get rid of from the main power, but she just has no main power.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So she, so these, at this point, she, she grabbed some shrapnel that, that, that, that, you know, has blown up and she's now blocking fireworks from hitting the girls.
Marc:Like as if she's Captain America with the shield and it is a
Marc:You know, a typical Marvel associated ending with a lot of CGI.
Marc:I mean, kind of a lot of CGI, but eventually she rescues all three girls by Astro projecting herself, helping each one of them at the same time.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:She realized her ability to be in the doctor's room with her mom when she found out she did not have a neuromuscular disorder is actually what she can do to save the girl's lives by being in three places at once.
Guest:And this is presented, I guess, as like that's the big moment, right?
Guest:Like that's like Spider-Man crawling on the wall for the first time.
Guest:Oh, she can be in three places at once.
Guest:And the movie just falls.
Guest:farts it out.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:At this end of the movie, it's like, everyone's exhausted.
Guest:The audience is exhausted.
Guest:The filmmakers are exhausted.
Guest:They're like, I don't fucking know.
Guest:Put her in three places at once.
Marc:It is just so cheaply done.
Marc:It looks like she's a ghost helping all three of these girls.
Marc:They get saved.
Marc:She defeats the villain and
Marc:That is that.
Marc:And then we get another scene.
Guest:Well, the other scene is because she, I forget how, fell in the water with the villain.
Guest:Oh, that's right.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And so to get hit, so she is then saved by the three girls who perform chest compressions on her as they were taught to do.
Guest:Right, in the motel room.
Guest:And now she is stone cold blind.
Ha ha ha!
Marc:With like the best looking sleep mask you've ever seen covering her eyes.
Guest:For some reason, being underwater, I don't know if maybe there was antifreeze in the water or something that caused her to go blind by being underwater for a period of time before she was rescued.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But she's now blind.
Guest:She's in the hospital blind.
Guest:And then they're back at her apartment.
Guest:Just kind of a nice apartment.
Guest:But now, I guess, is a superhero lair.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It has a spider web of a window.
Marc:And we see our protagonist, Cassandra.
Marc:She has a visor on.
Marc:And she's also now in, like...
Marc:Like a Professor X wheelchair who is just driving it around.
Marc:Like somehow she's also paralyzed.
Marc:And she seems very happy with all of this.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:She's happy that this is it.
Marc:Like she doesn't have to do it.
Guest:Big smile on her face.
Guest:yeah the girls come in she's telling them she knows what they've ordered from the store before they get there because she could she that's their great power she can tell them what's in the chinese food delivery bag without having to see it what a fucking great power that is it's like the sub level atlantic city magician
Marc:She tells a girl, God bless you, before she sneezes.
Marc:Ah, you see?
Marc:That's my power.
Guest:Now, the thing is, apparently this is because Madam Web, who is like a barely there character from the Spider-Man universe in the comics, is an older woman who is blind in a wheelchair and can like see the future.
Guest:And like Spider-Man goes to her and she tells him, it's like an oracle, right?
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Yeah.
Guest:So I guess they think that's where they need to wind up with this character in this movie.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Well, it's crazy because why?
Guest:Right.
Guest:No one knows who Madam Web... Madam Web is whatever you want to tell us she is.
Marc:Are there comic book fans that care?
Marc:That are like, oh, look, she has the look.
Guest:Yeah, I dare you to find one.
Guest:I dare you to find one person that was so thrilled they blinded and crippled this person by the end of the film.
Marc:So the end of the movie is one of the girls is like, hey, you know, are we going to be okay or something?
Marc:And we go to Madam Web and she's like, you will be.
Marc:I've seen it.
Marc:And we go into Madam Web's mind and we see the three girls as spider women and they're fighting crimes.
Marc:Then also off to the side is Dakota Johnson in a spider woman outfit with a
Marc:Doc Brown's visor from Back to the Future 2.
Marc:And it's just the most bizarre, cheap-looking thing I've ever seen.
Marc:It's honestly something out of Army of Darkness.
Marc:It's so bad-looking.
Marc:But that's how they end this movie.
Guest:So here's the thing.
Guest:Is this worth your money?
Guest:I mean, if you just listen to what we talked about and at any point you thought, well, that sounds amusing, then go for it.
Guest:Because I have actually not seen anything in a theater for a while that made me want to revisit it as much as this movie had.
Guest:Not for any good reason, but I definitely would like to watch it again to try to figure out all those confusing things that we just said because it's confounding.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, how did it get to this point?
Guest:Yes, it is a throwback.
Guest:It's a throwback to when everyone just knew superhero movies are kind of garbage.
Guest:And like, yeah, let's just throw whatever we want at the screen and the nerds will come and watch it.
Guest:It's like this movie exists in a place where the standards created by the MCU do not exist.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like they never happened.
Guest:There's no expectations on these movies making sense.
Guest:They're like, nah, it's just, it's the funny pages.
Guest:We'll just put it on the screen.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It is a real throwback to like, it's almost as if it's supposed to be before Marvel or superhero movies got good.
Marc:Like it lives in that, that, that day in time.
Marc:It's, it's fascinating.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, if anyone else out there has seen Madam Web, or here's my other request.
Guest:If you have a bad movie like Madam Web that you would like us to watch, I am totally into watching more Madam Webs.
Guest:Because anything like this, it gets my juices going, man.
Guest:I feel like I did some work watching this movie.
Guest:it's a gift that keeps giving too it's just like you're doing your dishes you're like wait why did they go here like that's baffling yeah yes so go down to the link in the episode description and send us your thoughts and your ideas we would love to know about more bad movies and I'm not talking about like the famous bad movies that make all the bad movie lists and like you know they're so bad they're great I'm talking about something you saw that you're just so confused confounded by you just want
Guest:You want some answers.
Guest:Chris and I can help provide those answers.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:Maybe we just, like, make fun of it.
Guest:Or we can all just laugh together about it.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's what we need.
Guest:We all need some laughter in life.
Guest:Well, next week we will be doing a full kind of Oscar coverage here on WTF with some extra stuff during the week and a bonus episode with Mark on Tuesday.
Guest:And I guess you and I, Chris, we can Oscar it up on the next week on the Friday show.
Guest:And so until then, I am Brendan and that is Chris.
Guest:Peace.