BONUS The Friday Show - The Madness of King George
Guest:you look like a ghost do i yeah yeah like the lighting it must be different in there yeah yeah i don't have my lights on so yeah it's a little little yeah i can change that no no i like you look like you're you're in the force you're like a force ghost like that's exactly what it is you're here to tell me that uh i'm correct from a certain point of view that was the line i was just about to say
Guest:Hey, Chris.
Marc:Hey, Brendan.
Marc:We're in the dog days here.
Marc:We sure are.
Marc:There's no baseball.
Marc:It is a bad time.
Marc:Actually, I removed Twitter from my phone just because there's no baseball, so there's no reason for me to have this app.
Marc:Plus, the world is an awful place at the moment.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:We are taking a bunch of L's and, yeah, just need to unplug, reset the old battery there.
Guest:Well, that's a good idea.
Guest:I'm always in favor of that.
Guest:I will say I wanted us to go back to something from last week that we skipped over, and this would be a good time to set up for people listening that, as mentioned, we will do our kind of spoiler wrap-up discussion of the show Renfair,
Guest:So if you heeded our warning about that, maybe you went and watched the show last week, you finished it up, or maybe you don't care and you're into just hearing us talk about it, that's great.
Guest:But for those of you who are concerned, like you didn't see the show, you don't want to hear us talk about the ending of it, that's going to be at the end of the episode.
Guest:So you don't have to worry about that now.
Guest:I will also mention it again before we jump into anything too spoilery there.
Guest:But I did want to go back, Chris, because you mentioned something.
Guest:And I said, we will touch on this later.
Guest:So now is the later.
Guest:But you said, when I brought up this show, Renfair, that one of the reasons you were into it was because you said you love Renfairs.
Guest:And that was a revelation to me.
Guest:So where does this, A, where does this love come from and how active is it?
Marc:Uh, so I had a girlfriend, uh, first girlfriend of mine when she, she enjoyed the Renaissance fair.
Marc:She used to, you know, braid her hair and everything.
Marc:And we would go every year to the New York Renaissance fair.
Marc:I think it's in like Troy, New York or something.
Guest:No, no.
Marc:Tuxedo, New York.
Marc:Oh, I know that one.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It's not cause it's not that far up.
Guest:It's Troy.
Guest:Troy is like up past Albany.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Tuxedo one is like, you're, you're, you're, you know, just hovering around the like Westchester, Rockland County.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Marc:Gotcha.
Marc:It's not that big of a trip.
Marc:We used to do it when I was a kid.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:So you've been there and like, what's not to love?
Marc:There's a bunch of stuff going on.
Marc:There's jousting.
Marc:There's a, there's, there's some plays that are happening.
Marc:People are dressed up and like, that's the other thing.
Marc:Look, I was a 18 year old kid.
Marc:Uh,
Marc:Got to see some people dressed up in some corsets and stuff.
Marc:You know, that's a fun time.
Marc:That alone.
Marc:And then just walking around, there's archery, there's a whole bunch of like, it's basically like Six Flags, but you got medieval times thrown in.
Marc:So it's just a fun time to, you know, just something to do in like the fall months.
Guest:but you aren't like a role player or something you didn't have a character that you went with and you oh like huzzah no no yeah yeah yeah like i am chris the pervert i i am the bedwetter yes
Marc:Come here, come far.
Marc:See my wet bed.
Marc:No, no, it was not that guy.
Marc:No, I would be there in a t-shirt.
Marc:I was not playing the bit.
Marc:I was just the guy that enjoyed it.
Marc:I mean, to be fair,
Marc:I feel like your brother would love this type of thing.
Guest:You don't have to feel it.
Guest:It is true.
Guest:He goes fully dressed.
Guest:Does he?
Guest:I don't think he has a character, but he wears like a tartan or a kilt, however you want to call it, based on whatever region of the globe kind of person he imagines himself as.
Guest:I think he's putting himself more in the Viking territory, though.
Guest:rather than like scots territory scots irish or anything like that yeah so like yeah i think whatever you call like a viking type of skirt wearing thing he has a he has one of those like sheepskin flasks that he oh no kidding you strap around your body so he puts it puts his water in there and drinks that while he's walking around he has a he has many broad swords so he brings those no kidding no
Guest:And gets like, we met him up there once.
Guest:There's one, it's not a huge one, but there's a Ren Faire Mini up at the Cloisters, you know, in Manhattan.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:They do every year, you know, so that's like whatever, in wood, like right at the tip of Manhattan facing the Hudson River.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And the northern part of Manhattan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, it's because it's not a giant acreage like you could get at some of these wooded places.
Guest:It's relatively small.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so you see a lot of people all like, you know, if you cross paths with one person, you're going to see them again 10 minutes later or whatever.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I, when we went up there, we met my brother and his wife there and, uh, he, uh, he was, you know, people keep coming up to him like, Hey, what, where, where did you get that sword?
Guest:Like, was it, did you order it from like, you know, you know, fare the well chain mail or whatever?
Guest:Like they, you know, like people knew like these, these sword sellers and he was like, Oh no, no, no.
Guest:This was a custom job and blah, blah, blah.
Guest:But like, uh, yeah, these people were very into his swords.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And he had multiple swords.
Marc:yes well you're like a broad sword on his back and then he has like stuff on his waist and whatnot i mean i i don't know the logistics of this stuff like how many swords are you supposed to have or whatever yeah i i'm i with most things it's like that's where you lose me it's like oh oh i'm gonna have a sword oh we're gonna have more than one sword like like oh swords uh
Marc:Oh, that changed my whole equation here.
Marc:When I was a kid, I had a He-Man sword, which I dug.
Marc:It was plastic, obviously, but that was fun.
Marc:I used to pretend I was in the Thundercats.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So that was my whole childhood, just imagining me as He-Man with the Thundercats.
Marc:But, uh, but that's about it.
Marc:And like, you know, I, I, again, I don't dress up.
Marc:Uh, I don't have any swords or shields, but I have, you know, I wish I still had it.
Marc:I, I, I would buy one of those, uh, what's it called?
Marc:Um, a goblet.
Marc:I would, I would buy a goblet and like drink my beer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Orange juice.
Marc:I'm 18 years old.
Marc:I didn't drink beer.
Marc:Uh, yeah, I would have my, I would dip, dip my cookies, milk and cookies in there.
Marc:It was a great time.
Uh, yeah.
Guest:but you could get a lot of that stuff at like you like you mentioned medieval times as well it's like a similar thing yes but i do think you know here's the thing though medieval times is clearly like for the the the children right like it's it's a pg level thing yeah something you said and i thought about this while watching that renfer show but you were like oh you know i was 18 years old and there's
Guest:you know, women walking around in corsets and stuff.
Guest:And like, I do think that's a large part of the appeal for the people who are doing it.
Guest:It's like this, uh, sexually permissive, uh, uh, acting out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's kind of like, like when you go to like comic cons or whatever, and you see the cosplay of women is like slave girl, princess Leia.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like there's something going on here.
Guest:That's not exactly about like comics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Star Wars.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Harley Quinn, you know, it looks, that doesn't, doesn't need to be airbrushed onto someone's body.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:So like there's the, there are these little pockets in our, in our pop culture society that like, where it's like, Hey, you know, this is kind of like an orgy.
Guest:It's like, we're going to say it's not.
Marc:It's a PG 13.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm here for the gang.
Guest:Yes, well, none of that was on display in the show, though.
Guest:It was a pretty, you know, kind of innocent feeling atmosphere.
Guest:I think they wanted to go with that idea that this was a lot like Disney World, you know?
Marc:Well, they tried so much.
Marc:I mean, you know, a guy read the damn book by Walt Disney, you know?
Marc:So, yeah.
Guest:Well, I'll definitely have more to say about that later, particularly about him reading the book.
Guest:But we will save that for the end.
Guest:And right now we can get into the week that was of WTF, which I know you have provided a great service to the listeners of Monday's episode.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So Monday's episode with Trey from Fish.
Marc:I'm not even going to try.
Marc:I bothered saying his name.
Guest:Which is funny because we had to get a pronouncer.
Guest:For his name from his rep.
Guest:Like his rep sent us a thing that was like, by the way, just so you know, his name is pronounced Anastasio.
Guest:Everyone says Anastasio.
Guest:Ooh, interesting.
Marc:I'm glad I didn't step on that minefield.
Marc:But thank you for that.
Marc:First of all...
Marc:Fantastic episode.
Marc:Long-ass episode, I will say.
Marc:That was intentional.
Marc:But for good reason.
Marc:I thought it was fantastic.
Marc:You guys hit so many points, like the music, the recovery, and more of the music.
Marc:I just found it to be a really great hang, so much so that I created a Spotify playlist of
Marc:Every single, well, maybe not every single, there are a couple of songs I couldn't find that Mark was talking about, but most of the songs that Mark and Trey talked about during the episode, and I put that on Spotify, and I'm sure you'll have the link in the liner notes of this episode.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:A hundred songs.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:A cool hundred.
Marc:It was going to be 99.
Marc:I was like, wait a second, what's happening?
Marc:I'm just going to put a fish song here at the end here.
Marc:Oh, there you go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Very nice.
Marc:By the way, are you a fish fan?
Guest:Nope.
Guest:Nope.
Guest:In fact, I literally have never heard any fish other than the one song of theirs that got a little radio play in the nineties, which was down with disease and
Guest:And so to me, I just thought all fish sounds like down with disease, which it doesn't when I was listening to it for this interview.
Guest:And, you know, but that was my, you know, it's just I don't have anything negative about fish.
Guest:I don't have anything positive about fish.
Guest:They're just like in the group of things in my life that I never really engaged with.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Same.
Marc:Uh, you know, I, you know, no, no ill will there.
Marc:Just like, just don't seem to have the time.
Marc:Like Mark was saying, like, you know, even if I, even if I gave, you know, years to just listen to the fish, I don't think I would have enough time to listen to fish.
Marc:Uh, but from what I've heard and, you know, like most episodes of yours, uh, I started listening to it and then I just, you know, I'm out for a walk and then I just have to pause it.
Marc:Cause I'm like, well, now I have to like listen to some fish.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I put on like, this is fish and, uh, got to, got to, you know, listen to some fish and it's, it's
Marc:Pretty good.
Marc:You know, it's nice music.
Marc:They're very talented.
Marc:And then I progressed with the actual episode.
Marc:So for an episode like this, where you don't know jack shit about Phish, how do you...
Marc:give Mark, you know, so, you know, how do you produce, you know, like, well, I mean, that's, it's, I mean, that's going to be the case for most people.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:If they're not something like I'm super, you know, invested in, I'll just have to find out what are the, where are the interesting points?
Guest:Where are the things that we could talk about?
Guest:And then kind of send him like a punch list and,
Guest:of that stuff and, you know, uh, point him in directions that, you know, will be helpful to him.
Guest:It's, uh, it's all pretty standard.
Guest:Like that's not really the tricky part.
Guest:The tricky part becomes, you know, basically when I'm presented with what they've done, right.
Guest:The raw materials.
Guest:And then I have to think about how do I edit this?
Guest:And it was definitely a decision to like, basically leave almost everything in.
Guest:Why is that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, okay, so like you said, I'm not like a huge Phish fan.
Guest:I'm not like, I'm not a Phish fan, period.
Guest:I don't know a lot about their background, about the things that are important to their fans, right?
Guest:And I do know that as opposed to like someone who's on, like, you know, that we might have an actor on who's, you know...
Guest:people know who that actor is.
Guest:They're, they're familiar with them.
Guest:They like that actor, but they're not like super fans who follow that actor around the country and like watch every single thing they do.
Guest:I mean, that's like what happens with fish fans.
Guest:Fish fans are super devoted.
Guest:And so I have to keep that in mind where it's like, Hey, just because this might not be like something that's important to me, it might be like super important to the fans who are going to listen to this.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Gotcha.
Marc:Gotcha.
Guest:And so I kind of defer on the side of, in a situation like this, and there have been other episodes like it, where it's like, okay, there's a massive fan base out there that they've heard almost, they listen to everything this guy does, right?
Guest:They listen to all the interviews and that.
Guest:And they're going to like compare notes, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I have no idea what's been in his other interviews versus this one.
Guest:What would make this one unique versus that?
Guest:What's like the thing that they've always wanted to know that he's never said.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's like, I have to proceed with a very light touch.
Guest:I only cut things that either, you know, don't make sense.
Guest:Don't sound good.
Guest:You know, problems that happen while they're in the midst of recording, but content wise, I'm pretty much keeping everything in.
Guest:You're not going to have any producer cuts from this episode.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Gotcha.
Marc:There's one moment in that episode where Mark's like, yeah, there was a place that does like a turkey open face sandwich with gravy.
Marc:And Trey's like- Oh, I would look that up right away.
Marc:And Trey was like, oh yeah, that was Nectars.
Marc:Like, oh, okay, sure, sure it was.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, but then, okay, that's a perfect example because then I looked up Nectars because I wanted to see this turkey open face sandwich.
Guest:I'm like, next time I'm in Vermont, which is never, I'll stop by Nectars, get myself a turkey sandwich.
Guest:But I looked it up and it's like Nectars is like so tied to fish lure.
Guest:Oh, no kidding.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Like, like if you go to like the Nectar's website, it's like Nectar's where it all began.
Guest:Like they're already, they just like, you know, fully invested in like, this is fish central.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So yeah.
Marc:Like I didn't want to touch that.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I got you.
Marc:Now, I will say, I inappropriately laughed at a moment.
Marc:Trey is talking about addiction and a concert at Big Cypress.
Marc:And Mark, and I actually put down the exact time he says it, but it's at one hour and two minutes exactly.
Marc:And Mark just interjects, like Charles Grodin talking about airplanes and Midnight Run.
Marc:He's like, people go down.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I thought the same thing.
Guest:Oh, that's so funny.
Guest:Cause you mentioned that to me is that I laughed at a really inappropriate moment and I had thought the exact same thing.
Guest:Like I didn't laugh out loud, but I was like, that's funny.
Guest:That's like Charles Grover.
Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:These guys go down.
Marc:These guys go down.
Marc:Love that line read so much.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:But I just loved contempt prior to investigation.
Marc:Really enjoyed that.
Marc:I'm guessing that's from AA, right?
Marc:It is.
Guest:Well, he mentioned it was from... It's actually a quote from... I forget the guy he mentioned.
Guest:Some...
Guest:questionable brain science guy, probably had something to do with phrenology or something.
Guest:I don't mean to slander whoever this guy is, although he probably is worth slandering.
Guest:But he's the guy with the quote, and I know that Mark has used that as an AA quote before.
Guest:It became a very...
Guest:easy touchstone during morning sedition like you know like mark introduced that phrase into like our daily vernacular and it became something we would point to in terms of like people not giving something a chance or like just a general uh bad political persuasion
Guest:that stemmed from people dismissing something before really knowing what it was.
Guest:And we would always look at something and just almost as a shorthand, be like, oh, that's total contempt prior to investigation.
Guest:Oh, look at that.
Guest:That's cool.
Marc:I also, speaking of AA, in the bonus episode, ask Mark anything.
Marc:I'm glad someone asked about, you know, Mark's, you know, thought of AA and having to do with, uh,
Marc:you know, um, religion and the higher power.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, uh, I really enjoyed Mark's, uh, response to that, you know?
Marc:So, uh, I think that was great.
Marc:Also with that episode, uh, apparently you're better at thinking like Mark Maron than Mark Maron himself.
Guest:I wonder if he really meant that.
Guest:Like, I wonder if he meant it the way, like he said, he knows, uh,
Marc:How did he phrase it?
Marc:He said something like.
Marc:I think he said, Brendan is better at thinking like me than I do.
Guest:Yeah, that's what he said.
Guest:And I wonder if he meant that I'm better at thinking like him or if he meant that I know how he thinks.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:right like i couldn't tell exactly what he meant i i i would i would agree with the latter the version i just formulated there yeah i don't know that i'm better with his brain than he is i don't know i have a doubt about that mark seems to think you you might be but i get i get the other thing of like i i i probably spot before he does how his brain is working on right
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, and that brings me to there's a question that was asked and Mark was like, well, that's probably better for Brendan because he stays with these episodes long after I actually record them.
Marc:But are there any moments from any of these episodes that have stayed with you long after the interview?
Guest:Yeah, that's a great question because, you know, so whoever sent that in, if you're listening to the Friday show, thanks for sending that.
Guest:Mark, I thought, had a good answer, though, even though he said it's probably a better question for Brendan.
Guest:I think he does have a lot of moments that do stick in his head, and he mentioned them on there.
Guest:I think with me, the interesting thing is, like, I have –
Guest:you know, virtually a couple of week, right?
Guest:Like, because as he said, I spend a lot of time with this.
Guest:And so there's, there's always little lines or little, you know, bits of information, turns of phrase, new things you find out about a person, like all this stuff always kind of sticks with me.
Guest:And it's one of the reasons why we put the book together that we did.
Guest:Cause I just always felt like a lot of these things are really great to kind of
Guest:enshrine yeah and instead of just having them go off into the ether of the audio product so uh like putting things in print i thought was important but you know i got to thinking about that and it's like for me personally like i i don't have the experience he does sitting there with the person right i just get this audio after the fact and so
Guest:you know for me a lot of things a lot of times what happens is like i'm completely removed from the process of like when the person comes over and they're sitting there with mark and they're talking and so i've just done like the prep work to lead up to that and then i get this thing and it's almost like sent to me as like a secret gift right like here i just had this conversation the only people that heard it are me and the person who did it and now you get to have it and decide how it gets put out there into the world right
Guest:So, like, that's where, like, the kind of really special stuff has happened.
Guest:And I almost feel like the best way I can describe it is, like, there have been times where I don't do this anymore because I had to stop doing it due to bad posture.
Guest:But I used to produce the show almost entirely on my couch on a laptop.
Guest:Like, sit there with the laptop on my lap and produce the show that way.
Guest:Now I sit at a better workstation where I can actually sit and not hurt myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But at that time, there were several times I can very specifically remember being like, I can't believe I'm sitting on my couch doing this.
Guest:I'm listening to this thing, I'm on my couch, and very soon this is gonna go out to the world.
Guest:That was always the crazy thing.
Guest:I've mentioned before, that's like one of my favorite episodes, period, is Paul Thomas Anderson.
Guest:And that is one I definitely remember having that thought.
Guest:Like here was a guy who's like a hero of mine, a great, you know, to me, one of the great artists of modern era.
Guest:And I'm sitting there listening to Mark ask him the questions I've always wanted to ask about his movies.
Guest:And he's like...
Guest:just going on for hours at length talking about them like that was special like that was to me like man i can't believe this i can't believe we got this to this point uh the the bit a big one early on was uh when judd apatow gave us the tapes of him as a kid with like gary shandling and uh um jerry seinfeld jay leno all these the
Guest:comedians that, you know, he was saying he was interviewing for his high school newspaper or radio show.
Guest:And he was really just doing it for himself.
Guest:And he gave them to us and said, we could use them however we wanted.
Guest:And I just, like, I remember being like, this is just an incredible gift.
Guest:Like, how did we get this?
Guest:How did, like, this is something that should be on like fresh air, this American life.
Guest:And it's, I'm the only one sitting here with it.
Guest:Like, it's just me.
Guest:uh that was crazy um i still think about like the fact that i basically got to meet and become friends with tom sharpling on the basis of doing this show like i was a longtime fan of the best show and then i you know saw that he was listening to our show and i like got in touch with him and i was like you should meet mark i think you guys would get along like i made them friends with
Guest:Like, that's a very cool thing to me.
Guest:It's very cool that Ira Glass and Terry Gross are like colleagues of mine who email each other.
Guest:Like, that's nuts.
Marc:That's wild.
Guest:It's very nuts to get an email from Terry Gross that's like, hey, I heard this thing.
Guest:I thought it was great.
Guest:Like, that's really wild.
Guest:And it's to me.
Guest:It's not like to me and Mark.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's like...
Guest:Wild.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:That's awesome.
Guest:And Ira was like nothing but like completely gracious and helpful in our early years.
Guest:Like that was mind blowing to me.
Guest:Like this, this person that to me was like a giant of the actual medium that we were doing.
Guest:And he was, you know, so kind of generously helping us or giving us advice or pointing us in the right directions.
Guest:That was amazing.
Guest:Being on the Simpsons.
Marc:Yeah, that's a career highlight.
Marc:That's like a life thing.
Guest:That would be like if someone was like, hey, you know who lives with you now?
Guest:Big Bird.
Guest:Big Bird now lives with you in your house.
Guest:Like, wait, what?
Guest:That was the same thing with that.
Guest:It's like, oh yeah, you guys, we need, like when the Simpsons is getting in touch with me because they need all of our likenesses and trademark stuff so that they can then use it in the show, that was fucking crazy.
Marc:That, wow.
Marc:Is that, that must, it's like you got the Willy Wonka golden ticket.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was, there's been a few times where it's like,
Guest:try to imagine what you would say to your childhood self.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:Like that was like, there've been plenty that like, I'd be like, yeah, my child self might not, you know, my child self doesn't know who Barack Obama is.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there's no, like you could tell that guy, Oh, you're going to talk to a president and your child self would be like, well, that's cool.
Guest:I don't really have a frame of reference for that.
Guest:But wait, wait, wait, what's that president's name?
Guest:That's weird.
Yeah.
Guest:I think you just put that together just on the spot.
Guest:Doesn't sound like a name I've ever heard.
Guest:No, like that.
Guest:Like, I mean, I was watching The Simpsons when I was 10, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that was just crazy.
Guest:It was similarly nuts to see like Mark portrayed on SNL, but I felt like that was more of like an achievement for Mark.
Guest:Like I was happy for him and I was happy for like that it was put in the podcast sketch that they did.
Guest:And he, you know, it was like him and, and someone was playing Sarah Koenig from Serial.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so like that felt good that we were in that pantheon, but the Simpsons one was that, that was just amazing.
Guest:And a similar moment of like, oh my God, I get to like be a part of this of like, they sent me the audio of Mark and Dan Castellaneta and
Guest:riffing and record and they were like here go ahead and put this together as a mark talks to crusty the clown you know episode like that was great um of course as i've mentioned i didn't do a lot of in-person stuff with uh with the show like at any given time but the the three main ones were you know having obama on and that was a big thing in my memory mostly about the planning like the the
Guest:The actual recording of it and him being there, that went by very fast.
Guest:But the planning was just remarkable.
Guest:And I was totally floored that I got to be involved in that from the very start.
Guest:And then similarly, going to Bruce Springsteen's house and just being...
Guest:welcomed in there and just hanging around and doing, doing the recording there, as opposed to having him come to us.
Guest:Like that was, that was as cool as, you know, when we've had people over to the garage that have been big, like being like, no, come, come by during the holidays, come by to Bruce's house.
Guest:And obviously I've mentioned it several times now because we're doing this Tarantino series, but doing Tarantino in person, that was for sure.
Guest:That was like, I remember thinking this was my post-COVID treat to myself.
Guest:Because it was like June of 2021, like right when everybody was like getting vaccinated and before the Delta surge of the virus and that.
Guest:And I just remember being like, I'm getting on a plane.
Guest:I'm going to fly first class because I've been saving up all this money doing nothing for the last year.
Guest:And I'm going to go out and hang out for that Tarantino interview.
Guest:And that's awesome.
Marc:And now what about like, are there moments from the actual episodes themselves that have stayed with you long after?
Marc:Like, you know, I'm sure stuff that Robin Williams said was funny or, you know, but like did something, was there something that changed in your day?
Marc:Did something stay with you?
Guest:I would say it's not so much that like it's, it's changed with changed in me, but there's, there's dozens and dozens of things that have been said on the show that I will recall as like a bit of advice or like, you know, some, something's happening in life and I can apply.
Guest:I'd be like, well,
Guest:I remember when so-and-so was on the show, they talked about this happening.
Guest:Like it definitely has helped me as a guide to life, like for people and their struggles and their problems.
Guest:Again, it's one of the reasons we put the book together the way that we did.
Guest:We felt like, hey, this is all kind of important to be like in one place and can be helpful to people.
Guest:It's almost like a self-help book.
Guest:Yeah, it really is.
Guest:And so, yeah, like I've pulled those kind of like –
Guest:Little lessons that people have said, little things that people have said about the way they dealt with growing up or parents.
Guest:I would say the best way to identify those is to get that book and really look through it.
Guest:And if you don't have the time to get the book, there's a Waiting for the Punch episode that
Guest:of, uh, of the, of the, uh, podcast that you can listen to.
Guest:And, uh, and you get a lot of those things in this, in the style.
Guest:I think for me, the, the way I always remember, like, how did it affect me in the moment is, uh, like there's sometimes I'm listening to the show, like as I'm editing it and my brain starts to do like a wrestling chant, like, this is awesome.
Guest:Like, I can't believe it's happening.
Guest:Like, uh,
Guest:Like with Eddie Murphy, like just like, we got Eddie and he's just like talking about comedy.
Guest:Like he's talking, he's remembering the names of these comedy clubs on Long Island that he used to do.
Guest:And he has like a steel trap memory about it.
Guest:And he's clearly just such a fan.
Guest:And he's talking about Gilbert Gottfried and his old act.
Guest:And like, that was a moment where I felt like that.
Guest:Michael Keaton, oddly was another one where I was like, this guy's just like telling us everything.
Guest:He's telling us everything about everything he ever did in his life and his thoughts about being Batman.
Guest:So much so to the fact that we have had interviewers write to us and be like, can we get a copy of your Michael Keaton episode?
Guest:Like some guy from Esquire, I remember writing me, said, I'm doing an interview with Michael Keaton and he won't talk to me until I listen to that first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was like, so much of my answers are in the Marc Maron interview.
Guest:So listen to that first.
Guest:And that way we're not being repetitive.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:That's awesome.
Guest:This isn't the type of memory where it's like, oh, I'm happy to revisit it.
Guest:But I definitely remember when Marc sent me the, when I was sitting there with the Wyatt Senac interview, which Marc sent me with a fairly banal message.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:We talked about this and this and that.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Like he did not flag it for me.
Guest:Like, Oh, it's going to be a big deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just remember sitting there listening to it and I, you know, gets to the part where Wyatt is explaining his like departure from the daily show and strife that went on there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I remember, this goes back to exactly what I was saying, sitting on my couch.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm like, holy shit, we're going to cause some problems with this.
Guest:Because I also knew the timing was right before the last episode.
Marc:Right.
Marc:With Jon Stewart.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And so I was like, oh man.
Guest:And I remember in that moment, I was like, to Mark, Mark has talked about this before.
Guest:This is one of those things where he doesn't have the perspective on what it's going to mean.
Guest:And I remember saying to him, it was the same thing with Sam Elliott.
Guest:I remember saying to him, that's going to cause a problem.
Guest:And he was like, really?
Guest:Nah.
Guest:And it was so funny because, boy, I don't know what this says.
Guest:This doesn't say anything good.
Guest:Like, I think it might have been either the same week or like week, you know, back-to-back episodes, but across separate weeks.
Guest:There was an interview Mark did with Mira Sorvino and then an interview, and then the Sam Elliott interview, right?
Guest:And in the Mira Sorvino interview, she talked all about, you know, some real...
Guest:stuff of the Harvey Weinstein's, uh, uh, situation she had where she was essentially like blackballed because she didn't, uh, you know, accept his advances or whatever.
Guest:And it was real like, um, emotional stuff.
Guest:And Mark was like, geez, that was crazy.
Guest:Like talk to me afterwards.
Guest:And he was like, that's gonna, that's gonna make some news.
Guest:Like that was, that was a big deal.
Guest:Like with her and like, and you know, he was feeling it because she was very emotional to,
Guest:Talking to him about it.
Guest:So obviously him sitting there in the room with her, it feels like weighty.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the Sam Elliott thing was like the next episode.
Guest:And, you know, he says this thing about the whatever that movie was called.
Guest:Power of the Dog.
Guest:Was that the name of it?
Marc:Yeah, I think so.
Guest:And that was, you know, he didn't like it because it was too gay, essentially.
Guest:Like, I'm being reductive.
Guest:But that was, he was like, this is bullshit.
Guest:This isn't some deconstruction of the Western or whatever he was going on about with it.
Guest:And I was like, that's going to get...
Guest:some real attention and not in a good way for us or for Sam.
Guest:And I remember like telling Mark that I was like, yeah, I don't know.
Guest:We'll see how that goes.
Guest:And, uh, uh,
Guest:And a couple days later, he was like, so hey, have you seen anything about this Mira Sorvino episode?
Guest:Is it making news?
Guest:I'm like, no.
Guest:But guess what is?
Guest:Sam Elliott.
Guest:To the point where I'm getting screamed at every day by his publicist.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:the shit storm that they're under.
Guest:Uh, so yeah, like that, that's, like I said, that doesn't say anything good for our society.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That like her story, which Mark thought would be the one that broke through did not.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And, uh, and the Sam Elliott one did.
Um,
Guest:But yeah, that was definitely, I remember a feeling that I had with the Wyatt Senac one.
Guest:I remember with Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart, that was another situation where I was like, I can't believe these guys are giving this to us.
Marc:Like, you know, like this is a gift.
Marc:So forthcoming, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, like this guy sitting here doing the Shakespearean thing in this intimate setting with Mark.
Guest:What a beautiful thing.
Guest:Or with Patrick Stewart talking about his abusive dad and stuff.
Guest:I know this isn't stuff they kept only to Mark.
Guest:It's not secrets, but it just felt special.
Guest:I felt similar this year with Malcolm McDowell.
Guest:That was another guy.
Guest:And maybe they're all Brits and they're good storytellers.
Guest:But that all had a similar feeling.
Guest:And I remember feeling that way big time with Sacha Baron Cohen, who was very reluctant to do anything like our show.
Guest:Never was doing long form interviews where he revealed the secrets of doing the characters he did.
Guest:And there was a guy who has worked with him from way back in the day named Peter Bainham, who is one of the writers on Ali G and stuff.
Guest:And he...
Guest:recommended to sasha that he do the show like he was like this is the like this has happened a lot like having someone be the person who vouches for us as a valid thing right like uh i remember uh very early on in the first year we were doing it uh mark's friend greg barrent uh who was uh
Guest:enjoying the show, just like other comics were enjoying it.
Guest:He was the one who told Ben Stiller, like, you should really go do Mark's podcast.
Guest:Like, this is a new thing, and, you know, you'd be great doing it.
Guest:So, like, that was a definite way people would wind up doing the show.
Guest:And, again, like, having Sacha Baron Cohen tell us, like, the stories about, like, that MMA scene in Bruno and, like, how they ran for their lives and stuff, like, so great.
Guest:And, again, felt like a gift.
Guest:I feel like...
Guest:Look, I've said it many times, I was super fortunate to have this job.
Guest:But there are times where with anything, you forget and you just treat it like, oh, this is my job.
Guest:I'm doing this every Monday and every Tuesday.
Guest:You go through the routines.
Guest:There have been enough things over the course of 15 years to really snap me out of that and be like, holy shit, this is just crazy fortune to be able to do this.
Marc:Yeah, that's great.
Marc:And yeah, I, what I take out of the show, what the things I remember are actually mostly, and you know, I don't know what this says about me, but like, they're not so much the guest chats, it's actually Mark's monologues.
Marc:Oh, sure.
Marc:I found myself just, you know, always, you know, not always, but like relating to his monologues in a way that, you know, I have a similar thought or similar feeling.
Marc:And he is just sort of speaking it to truth, you know, like when he got COVID or, you know, when Lynn died or, you know, there are countless times where like...
Marc:There are times where it's just, you're talking about coffee, you know, and stuff.
Marc:And just, like, I can relate to that.
Marc:And, like, that's the sort of stuff that, you know, kind of grabs me.
Marc:And, like, there are also things that he's turned me on to.
Marc:Like, you know, yeah, sure, I guess, like, Billy Strings.
Marc:But, like, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, I now own that on DVD.
Marc:You know, like, there's movies.
Marc:There's music.
Marc:Like, I go to the Whitney because Mark kept talking about, you know, the Whitney.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So there's all this stuff.
Marc:And honestly, I don't think this has to do with Mark, but recently, and rather recently, I've actually stopped drinking.
Marc:And again, don't think it has anything to do with Mark, but it sort of helps that he's talking about his process and talking to guests about it and stuff.
Marc:And my last drink was July 3rd.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:I'm not sure I'll stick with it, but you know, it's, and I don't think I had a problem, you know, it's on, you know, it was just like something that became a routine, especially during COVID.
Marc:It was like, you know, Hey, it's five o'clock.
Marc:Let's get a drink.
Marc:There's nothing else to do.
Marc:And like, you know, after a while, I just had less and less enjoyment from alcohol.
Marc:You know, I would, I would used to be into beer a whole bunch now can't even fathom the idea of drinking a beer and like,
Marc:Wine always felt like a waste of time.
Marc:So there's no really a problem there.
Marc:But I used to make cocktails and order cocktails.
Marc:And honestly, just recently, just didn't have any interest in it anymore.
Marc:So my last drink was in Nashville.
Marc:And again, doubt it'll stick, but it's nice to have a reprieve.
Marc:And I haven't replaced it with these seltzers, these THC seltzers.
Marc:It's like, have you ever heard of this?
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Marc:It's like, it's like a weed seltzer, but it's, uh, it's with like five milligrams of THC.
Marc:So it's not like I'm sober, sober.
Marc:Like, I guess I, you know, I'm like California sober.
Marc:Uh, but it's, uh, yeah.
Marc:So it's like, it's something that I indulge in like maybe like once every two, you know, once a week, I'd say at this point.
Marc:Uh, but yeah, I, I doubt, uh, you know, I doubt I'm going to get addicted to like Zins or anything.
Marc:What is up with these fucking Zins, by the way?
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Guest:Thankfully, I've never had to worry about that as a problem.
Marc:My brother-in-law does it as well.
Marc:I do not enjoy the idea of it.
Guest:Well, I think, though, it's interesting, though, because anyone who's been with the show for a long time, going all the way back to a very, very early episode, I think it's the same episode that Dane Cook was on.
Guest:And so that's within the first year of doing the show.
Guest:And that was like an episode where Mark was weaning himself off the nicotine lozenges.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's like, so it's 15 years.
Guest:He just goes through the same thing over and over again.
Guest:And so it's like, yeah, it's something I think it is helpful to people to know, like, you don't like have to like what you're saying, like, I, you know, I'm not drinking right now.
Guest:And I don't know if it's going to be this way.
Guest:And it's like, sometimes it doesn't have to be.
Guest:Or it's like part of your life is like going through these cycles.
Guest:And then you have, if these, if it's not self-destructive, you can have these moments where you struggle with something that you know you shouldn't be doing and you do it again anyway.
Guest:And it might not like be productive to go back to doing it, but you do know you have the strength within yourself to, to not do it again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I, I often take that from Mark's
Guest:you know, cycles, right?
Guest:Like there is a way to look at it where you'd be like, oh, hasn't this guy gotten over this already?
Guest:But there's another way to look at it where it's like, well, he can like function and go back to not doing it.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So we can just wait through the moment until he gets to there.
Guest:And this might just be a way that he gets through life, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:This is going to prevent him from doing hard drugs.
Guest:Who am I to stay in the way of?
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Like, please keep doing this cycle.
Marc:It's totally fine.
Marc:Dan St.
Marc:Germain, by the way, wrestling fan.
Marc:I love the name of his wrestling podcast, Wrestling Stiff.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Working Stiff.
Marc:Oh, Working Stiff.
Marc:Excuse me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, great, great stuff.
Marc:Did you, was that, because I remember when you were like, oh, I want to do this Friday show, and...
Marc:All these wrestling fans, they have taken every single good name for a wrestling show.
Marc:So is this one of them that you're like, oh, Working Stiff, that's out?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I don't remember if I clocked that.
Guest:But yeah, basically, it was like that.
Guest:It was so many wrestling puns that were the titles of show names.
Guest:But I had no idea that he was a wrestling guy.
Guest:I would have maybe even had him on as a guest back when we were doing heavy wrestling content.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:uh for the show i do love the idea of his stone cold steve austin cartoon sign me up get it on netflix come on it sounds i think he said it's with peacock yes they're working with peacock yeah oh i'd watch the shit out of that i'd watch it if it was he did different jobs for different like different times because whatever he said he was in this thing was what he was like a social worker yeah yeah it's like no just every episode would have something different do a new job yeah yeah exactly yeah
Marc:Like he's a general manager at a Renaissance fair.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:Well, that is a good place to transition then into our discussion of the last episode and full series of Ren Fair on HBO and streaming on Max.
Guest:So if you don't want spoilers for that show, you can bail out now and we'll talk to you next week when we will be watching Inglourious Bastards, the Quentin Tarantino film.
Guest:But yeah, for those of you who stuck around and maybe watched the final episode of Ren Faire, Chris, I know you had watched it before we spoke last week.
Guest:I had not.
Guest:So we got off the episode and I went and watched the ending.
Guest:And I have to say, no surprise that the thing ended without any transition away from King George.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Obviously, what was obvious in the first 10 minutes of the show
Guest:held true to the very end this guy was never going to let go of this place which i think is very interesting and it makes me wonder like did they did they get him to read a line and then then change it at the end like the first line of the show is what's the king without a kingdom right yeah and then he says he's free right
Guest:And then the end is he says, what's a king without his kingdom?
Guest:He's nothing.
Guest:And that's the end of the show.
Guest:But what made me realize is that, like, sure, if that's something they manipulated or they had him read a line and put it in the thing, fine.
Guest:Because there's no manipulation that matters in this thing.
Guest:Like, it's...
Guest:the, the story is what it is.
Guest:This Ren Faire in Texas is owned by this guy.
Guest:He's never going to get rid of it.
Guest:He's, he can't, his identity is totally wrapped up with it.
Guest:All the people who work there, their identity is wrapped up with it.
Guest:And it's just going to go on this cycle forever.
Guest:Like there's nothing.
Guest:So, okay, you can make some, you know, uh,
Marc:artistic flourishes here and there and insert things like a guy talking to a dragon or whatever that didn't really happen but it's not going to impact the real life outcome here the real life outcome was like set in stone from the start yeah yeah and like this this whole story is is just synonymous with like the world today yes yes obviously the president right uh but like
Marc:All I hear about is all these baby boomers and they all have these big houses and you know what they're doing?
Marc:They're not leaving their fucking houses.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And so that, I mean, it's just, it's the same thing.
Marc:It's their kingdom.
Marc:This is what they know and they are not leaving.
Marc:But also this guy, the king has some wild ideas.
Marc:Right.
Marc:like just some just some real humdingers of ideas first of all the government when he found out that the government tells me when you're going to die i was like excuse me sir what's that i actually had to rewind a whole bunch of times like what what happened now and so he uh he got like this plasterized you know poster of his life and how his life is going to be and it's
Marc:Like ridiculous.
Marc:He's going to be, what is it?
Marc:It's health and longevity.
Marc:He's going to be 95 when he dies.
Marc:He's going to have a companionship.
Marc:It's going to be female.
Marc:And then he just has a bunch of buzzwords.
Marc:He has like patience, rationality, beauty, harmony, festival, garden, art.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'm with you.
Marc:And then there's patience.
Marc:Passing?
Marc:Music?
Marc:Flowers?
Marc:Philosophy?
Marc:TV?
Marc:Read?
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Is this like a to-do list that he has framed on his wall in his, I'm guessing his bathroom?
Marc:His crazy-ass bathroom where just all the money is going to his stupid bathroom that he wants.
Marc:But yeah, it's so ridiculous, this guy.
Marc:And he's the king, and he gets to do whatever the hell he wants.
Guest:Well, you know, it was so funny.
Guest:I was watching with my wife, Dawn, and we're watching this last episode.
Guest:And the moment where he's in the car, and it's after he's... I guess maybe it's the scene where he's met with the guy, Louis, and he's decided to sell him his shares or whatever, and he's going to sell the festival.
Guest:And his driver asks him, so do you feel good about everything?
Guest:And he's like...
Guest:He's doing that thing that Jinx does where he starts like burping and like his body is betraying him because he's like lying, you know?
Guest:And Dawn is like, oh my God, he is freaking out.
Guest:And it's funny because like he didn't look like he was freaking out, but she was totally right.
Guest:Like mentally, this guy was freaking out that he was going to not be the king anymore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's such a like such a perfect moment in a distillation of where these things lead to these ideas that you're going to relinquish power.
Guest:It's like if you're not mentally healthy enough to do that, there's no way there's no chance you can't get rid of it.
Marc:It's you're stuck.
Marc:Yeah, and there are no good guys in this show.
Marc:I know Jeff is portrayed to be this lovable bear of a guy who just wants to... He has this fantasy about Willy Wonka, and he keeps talking about Willy Wonka as if it's a real-life thing.
Marc:And he's like, well, I'm like the head Oompa Loompa.
Marc:And it's like, okay, well, Willy Wonka didn't leave his kingdom forever.
Guest:You're supposed to do that with like Napoleon, like things that actually happen that you can draw lessons from.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And he just keeps on comparing himself to different characters in Willy Wonka.
Guest:This is like the adults who compare everything to Harry Potter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Adults like that.
Guest:Oh man, that's rough.
Marc:But the corn king, you know, does the same exact thing where when he's like, you know, oh man, you know, I didn't get it this time.
Marc:But like, it's like Game of Thrones.
Marc:There can only be one.
Marc:It's like, dude, what is wrong with you people?
Marc:Can you live in real life for a little bit?
Marc:No, that's why they're there.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's the thing.
Marc:They, these people have lived there.
Marc:Like everyone has left their family to be at this Renaissance fair and the Renaissance fair is now their life and they will get fired from their life.
Guest:you bring that up here's a great this is a great transition here because i got a comment here from ryan and uh he said what were the markings on the car he calls uh king george carney logan uh which i think is funny he says what are the markings on carney logan's shirt did he serve did he steal valor are they nonsense which i was thinking while i was watching it too like why does this guy have these military badges but they're not decipherable like you can't so i think it's just like part of his shirt but i did go want to go research that and
Guest:spoiler i came up with nothing like i couldn't find any evidence that this guy had served anywhere uh but not to say that he hasn't but there was nothing as part of any biographical stuff about him that said he had military service but i did find this and this goes into what you're just saying there
Guest:This was an article from the Houston press in December, 2020.
Guest:So like during COVID and they're wondering about whether the place was going to come back and it was being hit with all these lawsuits from people who had once been there or whatever.
Guest:So it has this quote here from, it says, Jeremy Bullock, who I don't believe is the guy who played Boba Fett, even though it's the same name.
Guest:Uh,
Guest:I believe this is someone from Texas.
Guest:Jeremy Bullock, who was a performer at the Texas Renaissance Fair from 1995 to 2000, has heard many unsavory rumors about Kulam over the years, but seen few consequences for the owner.
Guest:No one seems to want to risk their position with the festival.
Guest:Working at TRF is like working at WWE, says Bullock.
Guest:They count on people living the gig and wanting it since they were kids.
Guest:That way they can treat them like shit and underpay them.
Guest:I mean, that's a perfect analogy.
Guest:Hang on, I'll keep going.
Guest:Rennies will be all like, I'll do this job for free.
Guest:People who are out might be happy to talk, but people who are still inside are likely to clam up so as not to jeopardize their plans for the next season.
Guest:And man, that is, first of all, it's so true with what you're saying about these people.
Guest:Like they don't want to lose their fantasy world.
Guest:This is like very important to them as you saw with Jeff in that, you know, when he loses the job, but it's also the analogy to WWE is so close.
Guest:Like that is, that is,
Guest:very very astute because it's exactly what this guy quoted here is saying that you get people to believe in this thing they wanted from when they were children right which is this thing you know if you're a kid going to this rent fair and it's like guess what you could work there someday and then you get to it's like you trap them in that dream and that's what vince mcmahon relied on for years right with the wwe stuff and vince is so much like this dude
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like they're very similar with all the weird peculiarities and, you know, say nothing about any illegal or illicit stuff they're doing, but like, you know, the famous thing about Vince is he hates it if you sneeze.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's like, this guy has this weird thing is like, if you don't read a book, he's like freaking out and like, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like every time you go to the bathroom, you have to read at any time you, you, Oh God.
Marc:Anytime he finishes, he has to go and read.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Also the thing about like, he can't have a person say to him that something happened because of something he requested.
Guest:Um,
Guest:like like if he's like how come you're not doing this and they're like because you asked me to do and he's like i don't want to hear that like that's the answer the answer is i'm doing it because you asked me to but like he can't he like physically can't hear it like he's like freaking out when they say that to him well when when he fires jeff he's like no don't don't say we had a fantastic uh yeah yeah festival like
Marc:I don't want to hear that.
Marc:It's just like he can't.
Marc:He lives outside of all of it.
Marc:Then you're supposed to be in charge of whatever whim he wants.
Guest:All right, but you want a little follow-up to that about him firing Jeff?
Guest:Yeah, well...
Guest:All right.
Guest:So in doing my research, trying to find out if this guy was stealing valor or not, I come across an IndieWire piece about an upcoming podcast episode that they have.
Guest:And it says, apparently the succession plot twists at the Renaissance Fair in Todd Mission, Texas, did not end with the conclusion of the three-part HBO docuseries Ren Fair.
Guest:In fact, according to director Lance Oppenheim...
Guest:It was the airing of the last two episodes on June 9th that actually led to the latest chapter in the saga.
Guest:And this is the director, Lance Oppenheim.
Guest:George watched episodes two and three, and he loved the series so much that he actually cleaned the office out again and gave Jeff his old job back.
Guest:So now Jeff is the general manager once again.
Guest:Jeff is back in charge.
Guest:That's on an upcoming episode of IndieWire's Toolkit podcast.
Guest:There's a little preview that they gave.
Guest:And yeah, he's right back to it.
Guest:But I think this is true.
Guest:So I read that and instead of being happy, I was like, oh, this is just a total bummer.
Guest:And it's because it's going to just happen all over again.
Guest:And then sure enough, you read down in this article and it says Oppenheim warns against seeing the latest twist as a hopeful sign of a new beginning.
Guest:As episode three makes clear, Kulam will never let go.
Guest:The same cycle patterns will repeat itself until the king dies.
Guest:Here's Oppenheim.
Guest:You're with someone who has given 43 years of his life to that cycle, hoping that one day it will change, almost like a real life version of Don Quixote chasing the windmills.
Guest:It's a fantasy that ultimately entombs everyone.
Guest:It's exactly what George wants.
Guest:He wants to go the way of the Egyptian Pharaoh.
Guest:He has a mausoleum on his property.
Guest:He wants to be buried in it.
Guest:He wants to take everyone with him.
Guest:George is sending Jeff to India to go to a chocolate convention.
Guest:And you know what's going to happen when that happens.
Guest:The same events.
Guest:Louis is going to meet with George.
Guest:There's going to be a phone call to Jeff and on and on.
Guest:The same thing is going to happen forever.
Guest:And I think there's something extremely tragic about that.
Guest:uh yeah i mean like i look i'm glad to have that little bit of information but i did not need it no that was blatantly clear at the end of the story yeah in fact my wife said dawn said the same thing she was like i wonder if jeff gets his old job back like right when the show is over
Marc:And apparently she was right.
Marc:But Jeff just wants the job that his wife had.
Marc:Right.
Marc:What was that?
Marc:The entertainment director, entertainment director.
Guest:That's all he wanted.
Guest:Well, I don't know that that's what he wants.
Guest:I think that that's what he's good.
Guest:I think it's classic Peter principle stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like like, you know, you you you're promoted to your level of incompetence.
Guest:So he's he's like Michael Scott was a good salesman.
Guest:And so they made Michael Scott manager.
Guest:He's a bad manager.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's the same thing here.
Guest:Like this guy is excellent as the entertainment director, but he sees that as lowly and he wants the higher thing where he's the Papa and all these kids in the in the Ren Faire are his children.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He gives that speech about that and he can only really get that if he's the boss, if he's the manager.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, yeah, it's all very real, all very tragic.
Guest:But speaking of real.
Guest:Before we stop, this was sent in to us from Heath.
Guest:Heath has written to us before, but boy, what a coincidence here.
Guest:Heath writes, as I listened to you talking about the new Ren Faire show, I got a sinking feeling.
Guest:King George, General Manager Jeffrey...
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:The entertainment director took notice of me because I was always in character and making up silly songs to see the corn.
Guest:My second year, I was hired in the acting company wearing the horse puppet with fake legs on the side, making it look like I was riding a two-legged horse.
Guest:I made up a character of being the village spy and this was my disguise.
Guest:My last year there, I was one of the main villains in the ongoing storyline.
Guest:I was Guy of Gisborne, sidekick to the Sheriff of Nottingham.
Guest:The eccentric and irascible George was legend even then.
Guest:Jeff was a wonderful, talented, and kind person.
Guest:What a trip.
Guest:And I know Heath, after that, went and sought out the show.
Guest:So hopefully it lived up to your expectations, Heath.
Guest:But also, that's exactly what I wanted to hear.
Guest:Am I right about this?
Guest:Do people just like...
Guest:fall in love with this place because like one of the ridiculous things about the show is that you're like wait this is all in service of this renaissance fair like you know like I was mentioning that last week that you're like it's a ridiculous thing to get so wrapped up in but that's
Guest:why like and it goes back to that disney thing like this dude said he like read the book about walt disney and how did walt disney create walt disney world and like one of the things whether he knowingly absorbed this or not one of the things both places have in common is this ability to kind of hermetically seal you in its environment and let you know like this is a safe place
Guest:where you can live out your dreams and fantasies and not worry about the outside world.
Guest:And even if there's like shitty things going on in here, like at the Ren Faire, there's this backbiting or whatnot.
Guest:Or if you're a person who goes to Disney World, you're like paying out the ass for everything.
Guest:You can mortgage your house on a Disney trip, right?
Guest:But you still get there and you're like, the magic of the fantasy does its job to you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's what this is relying on, is relying on you to be like, I get it.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:But I loved it.
Guest:I have great memories, which Heath clearly does.
Guest:And so does anyone else in that show who put themselves through that stuff for that guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And can I just say, I believe Jeff is a prick or whatever he is, because in the beginning, in the first episode, he's...
Marc:He's trying to combat the optics, a.k.a.
Marc:I need this lie out about this statue.
Marc:And that is $150,000.
Marc:And, oh, actually, King George, he did this.
Marc:He paid this guy out of the kindness of his heart.
Marc:And he's just inventing a lie to just gaslight everyone.
Marc:So I did not enjoy that about Jeff.
Guest:Well, I, but my takeaway with that was that he was not good at that stuff.
Guest:Like that's, that's the thing.
Guest:It's like, he's trying to act the role of the ruthless, take no prisoners, a manager of this investment.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, like he's watched shows of like billions or something like that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where it's like, Oh, I gotta be like a, you know, the, the boss.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In this show and and just make these harsh decisions.
Guest:But he's not he's not that he's an actor.
Guest:He's a he's a guy who's most comfortable in, you know, a costume pretending to be the guy in the joust, you know, who calls all the subjects to order.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there, there are a lot of great moments of like editing in this show.
Marc:Like when the water, the well water was poisoned and you just, you just see everyone dumping out water.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, uh, and then there's like overhead sprinklers and the guy on the phone was like, I can't believe this water is poisoned or whatever.
Marc:And like, just it's raining down on him.
Marc:There's a lot of good, just really fun theatrical moments in this show.
Guest:I got to imagine that that editing was in there because the line from the fair, from Jeff on down, was like, no, no, no, the water was fine.
Guest:We dealt with this, but some jerk at the government...
Guest:environmental inspection agency fucked us and you know gave us a bad report even though we proved that everything was clear right yeah and i think the director knows that's bullshit right so he was using the editing to show like even while they're saying all this you got people throwing buckets of water out the back door because they're like get this poison away from me totally
Marc:Totally.
Marc:There were so many characters.
Marc:I don't know how you felt, but there were so many characters were like, well, wait, I want more of that.
Marc:Like the Greeks.
Marc:The Greeks seemed really interesting.
Marc:The Greeks are great because there's one Greek dude who never has a shirt on ever.
Marc:Completely hairless.
Marc:He's like the guy from Barry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, to exactly who I thought.
Guest:I was like, is this Noho Hank?
Guest:Like, what's going on?
Guest:And they don't explain him or anything.
Guest:He just comes around.
Guest:He's Greek.
Marc:Yeah, like that guy was great.
Marc:Like his ex-best friends, like the king's ex-best friends.
Marc:Fascinating.
Marc:But again, they're there for a blip.
Marc:Like there, I feel like there was so much more, you know, meat on the bone.
Guest:Hey, I don't have any problem with that.
Guest:I'm much more happy to leave me wanting more than to watch a fucking eight episode thing where I'm totally spent by like episode four.
Guest:Like that one about the Rajneeshi cult.
Guest:That went so long.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like that was a big Netflix problem for a long time.
Guest:I don't know if they've corrected it, but it used to be that these documentaries that only held enough space for like at tops three hours of time.
Guest:And they would make these things like five, six, seven hours.
Guest:And it just was punishing by the time you were done with it.
Guest:So I'm glad it didn't go that long.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:But like Darla, first of all, I loved everyone's sort of title card.
Marc:It looked like one of those 80s books that my mom would, you know, romance novels type of things, like that type of typeface.
Marc:I just thought that was really clever.
Marc:But like Darla was very much like, you know, Jerry from Succession.
Marc:And I just thought she was great.
Marc:Well,
Guest:I just love that Darla is presented as like the, the Jerry character.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so she's like supposed to be the, the, the business oriented mind who's going to push this sale through and that, but like, if you take a step back, like what is she really, she's a fucking tiger King person.
Guest:She's a exotic animal dog.
Guest:broker oh that's right like that's her life her life is is is dealing with illicit animals essentially and you know doing like the most you know selling them to the state lotto or whatever shit you're doing you know have these sad elephants that you bring to kid parties so that they could parade around with them like this is not some like titan of industry right like she's she's not making the forbes list
Marc:Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Marc:But the Korn King was probably my favorite character, just because, I mean, him taking business calls on the fair, which I guess you can't have a cell phone.
Guest:I was thinking that when he was doing it, though.
Guest:I was like, dude, why are you on a phone?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he at some point said it.
Guest:They don't like us on a phone here.
Guest:I was like, yeah, no shit.
Guest:Because then anytime somebody walked by him, he'd be like, oh, hello, my lord.
Guest:Like while he's on the phone.
Guest:I'm like, maybe don't take an important business call when you have to still be doing my lady.
Marc:Space Force, are you from the future, my lord?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But then on a dime, he's like, yeah, man, Disney up 73% live nation.
Marc:This is a throwback.
Marc:This gets at the emotional parts of humans.
Marc:Like, just like, like total, like Roy shit, you know?
Guest:Oh, he's Kendall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like to a T. Absolutely.
Marc:Just, just a, a hell of a character.
Marc:Uh, and just out of his mind on Red Bull, you know, like, like I'm sure he was pouring it into your goblet there.
Guest:Like, yeah,
Guest:You could relate.
Guest:There was also the guy who was like, I was the court jester from back in the day.
Guest:And I realized he was just doing the Super Mario voice.
Guest:Like legit.
Guest:Like he was just Super Mario and he was like jumping from things and he's going like, I was like, wait, you just Mario.
Guest:That's your jester character.
Guest:It's a me.
Guest:He even said that.
Guest:Like he was like, Hey, it's me.
Guest:Or whatever his name was.
Guest:Oh, man.
Marc:There's a lot, I guess, must say, the job search aspect of that third episode gets me, you know, in the feels.
Marc:Because, like, look, trying to find a job sucks.
Marc:and like and at 60 yeah man like i think about that all the time like i mean i'm not gonna be 60 but like shit dude like i don't know what i'm gonna do when like this job like i'll fold shirts at old navy again i guess but like it's like it's sad it's just a sad sad time well yeah in that sense like i had no doubt that that jeff was gonna wind up back at the festival right like who the fuck wants to deal with that yeah
Marc:By the way, how about that commercial?
Marc:So the king goes to a bad date because the girl has fake boobs.
Marc:And then this guy's like, hey, I did the audio for this commercial.
Marc:Oh, boy.
Marc:Did you hear the commercial?
Marc:It sounds absolutely insane.
Marc:It's this guy's voiceover.
Marc:And then there are bangpipes happening at the same time.
Marc:I'm like, get this off of whatever screen it is.
Marc:I need it off.
Marc:Like, why?
Guest:Well, he was blaming the bad speakers of the thing.
Guest:I was like, I'm blaming the bad thing you're showing him.
Marc:And it's like a drone shot.
Marc:It looks nice, but it's like, just noise.
Marc:Just a wall of noise happening.
Guest:Also, that guy could not pick up what King... Why would you just not leave immediately, right?
Guest:And the guy's like...
Guest:I don't want to hear this.
Guest:Turn it off.
Guest:Get it away from me.
Guest:And the guy's like, Oh, okay.
Guest:So do you want to hear it a different way?
Guest:I'm like, dude, get the fuck out of there.
Guest:Like I've never seen anyone not understand how little they were wanted.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Very bad opinion of clues.
Marc:I'm guessing that's why he's at the rent Texas Renaissance fair.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's like the podcast guy.
Guest:He's the guy leading the podcast.
Guest:I was like, Hmm.
Guest:I guess I could get a job there if I needed one.
Marc:I love the podcast guy.
Marc:You should do a guest spot on his show.
Marc:I'm bummed that the Greeks didn't buy the place because I feel like, A, I could have gotten more of the Greek stuff.
Marc:And also, I've never had Greek food at a Renaissance fair.
Marc:I've had a turkey leg.
Marc:That's delicious.
Marc:But Greek food just seems bizarre.
Guest:All I know is that every time they showed anyone cooking anything in this show, I was like, everything looks so hot.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like, everyone's walking around in this sheen of sweat in these, like, you know...
Guest:animal skins yeah and then then they have people like over these giant fires even the even the popcorn guy right it's like these giant cauldrons making the kettle corn and i'm like everyone must stink so bad yeah and i can't imagine putting a hot gyro in my face while i'm at this renaissance fair
Marc:I thought the popcorn king was going to have a heart attack in the last episode.
Marc:He was, like, struggling with that thing.
Marc:By the way, I love popcorn.
Marc:Kettle corn is, you know, garbage.
Marc:Well, yeah, because you're not eight.
Marc:Yeah, I guess so.
Marc:I guess that's what it is.
Guest:It's Cracker Jacks.
Guest:So, like, when was the point in your life where you stopped eating Cracker Jacks?
Guest:Like, you know, pretty young when I stopped eating Cracker Jacks.
Marc:Hey, when we go to Mech games, you get a Cracker Jack every time.
Guest:But that's because I'm drunk.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think it's totally fine.
Guest:It's within the bounds there.
Guest:i can put whatever i want in my mouth at that point yeah no who cares uh all right well listen the uh the rent fair show it was a short but sweet i i would highly recommend it if you uh stuck around this far you've heard all about it and if you haven't seen it yet but look give it a chance uh and uh and those of you who did watch it at our recommendation i hope you enjoyed it as much as we did
Guest:uh we will do this again and feel free to send in your recommendations if it's if it's manageable that's the thing i will not invest in like a heavy lift series like a manageable show like this is great uh for for me and my time uh and and one of the things we're going to do with our time is next week we will watch inglorious bastards and uh talk about that is as part of our ongoing tarantino series
Guest:So you can get caught up with that if you want.
Guest:It is streaming for free if you have Apple TV+, which is weird.
Guest:They have like a very limited selection of movies on there, but this is apparently one of them.
Guest:So Apple TV+, where you will soon go to watch your Marc Maron golf comedies.
Guest:You can watch...
Guest:Quentin Tarantino's sixth film, Inglourious Bastards, which we will talk about next week.
Guest:And send us anything by going to the link that's in the episode description.
Guest:Click on that and send us some comments or questions or whatever you're thinking of.
Guest:And until then, I'm Brendan and that's Chris.
Guest:Peace.