BONUS The Friday Show - Marvel Lite
That one's great.
No, it's not.
It's bad.
This movie is not good.
What?
Why would you say that?
It's not good.
This is the movie that ends with the cliffhanger that you know is not a cliffhanger.
Hey, Chris.
Hey, man.
How you doing?
What's your life like now that we're in the thick of the Summer Olympics?
Are you fully, like, Olympics tapped in?
All the time, man.
It is, like, prime time.
That's what we're doing.
We're watching the Olympics, and it's a delight.
Yeah.
look they just they have this thing down to a science now of how to present these things oh man every video package is like a tearjerker i'm like a killer and you know they'll do it for any person like they've figured it out like if you're gonna see this person on prime time for like 30 seconds they're like we got a story yeah uh they've gotten so good at it and i mean is this has this been your thing every olympics like are you an olympics guy i
For the last few years, it's trailed off.
I have not been partaking too much.
But this year, for some reason, it just hits right at this time where there's like a lull in other entertainment.
And it's just like the perfect storm.
And we're just like in every night.
We're sitting down, watching the Olympics.
And it's just been great.
The gymnastics are great.
Swimming, great.
For some reason, Italians are really good at swimming this year.
That's been shocking.
But yeah, just love every single sport that's been happening.
Well, Dawn loves the Olympics.
Like, it looks forward to them all the time, every year.
And she's not a sports fan.
And so she's always like, you know, oh, this must just be because I was into these as a kid, right?
And I was like, I was into them as a kid, but I didn't get this attachment to them.
And then I was also remembering that, like, when we were younger...
They didn't do this, what they're doing now with like every single event.
They, you know, told a story and they put a package together or something.
There were stars, right?
There were like people like, you know, Mary Lou Retton or Florence Griffith Joyner, right?
Like there were people you knew and like you absolutely turned it on to watch them.
But I feel like this is a more modern thing.
And I like, I do think that that's what has hooked her.
her dawn in the olympics like since like i guess like 2004 right the uh the whenever that whatever olympics that was i think that was athens i think they were back in greece for that um and and you know i get those kind of things from from sports so it's not like uh you know it's like i make my own narratives throughout the year of of sports um
And so it's not this thing that I'm like all of a sudden get this craving for in this concentrated two week period.
Right.
It's like I can totally see why if you weren't a sports fan, the Olympics would completely appeal to you.
Yeah.
And there's also something for everyone.
Like my wife and I were watching the male gymnastics and like NBC would just flash to this kid with glasses.
And he's just like sitting there with his eyes closed, meditating.
Pummel horse.
Yeah, the pommel horse guy.
And he's just waiting there the entire night.
We're like, what are they doing?
Why are they flashing to this kid so much?
And then he gets on the pommel horse and he's like Clark Kent, takes off his glasses, and he just crushes on the pommel horse and basically wins a gold.
all olympic teams have to have that like they like yeah it's not good if you have all the guys are really great at everything like you need this one dude who's only good at one weird thing and then he just sits there like a sleeper agent waiting to be activated and then like it's his time he goes in he's an assassin he kills the pummel horse and they win the gold medal like that all teams should have that it's
Totally.
I don't know who that is with the women's gymnastics because they're just.
No, but they're all good.
That's the thing.
All of them are great.
And then it's like, okay, you know, that's fine.
I'm happy for them that they're all great.
But I do like this idea that you have like your specialist who can't do anything else except this one weird thing.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
And, you know, and it's other countries too.
Like there's been like, there's like this shooting sport where just some guy from, I don't even know where.
He's just some dude, you know, all the, everyone else has older guy.
Yeah.
And everyone else, I think he was from Turkey, Turkey.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're right.
And like everyone else has like these specialized glasses with like microscopes on them.
And this guy just like has his hand in his pocket and he's just shooting the gun and he's fucking, he's amazing.
He's like an actual hit man.
It's awesome.
Yeah.
Well, that's a weird sport thing.
Is this a new thing in there?
This like Olympic shooting?
I don't remember it from the past.
I remember.
I think they have.
I think they've had it.
I remember shooting.
It was part of some sort of winter sport where it's like skiing.
The biathlon or something like that.
that yeah with like a rifle and stuff but yeah i don't remember ski and shoot yeah that's the weird that i mean how do you forget that that's the weirdest thing i've ever heard in my life all right first you go to ski then you pick up a shotgun and shoot that guy in the face like what is this is the like the james bond olympics
But there's been like so many fun moments that are like great for social media.
Like there was archery where like this is the Olympics, right?
You've trained your whole life for this.
And this young woman, she's setting up her shot and a bee lands on her finger and just fucks up her shot.
So it's just like a lot of fun like moments like that.
I always, you know, I always enjoy them.
I'm never like fully invested in them.
And like I said, Dawn is, so we, you know, we have them on here, but like, I don't get like so wrapped up in it.
I mean, she's like wrapped up in it every night.
I wish, I wish I had time to watch like the actual matches, not just the highlights, like the women's rugby match.
Like I wish I could watch that whole match instead of just watching the highlights of the ending, which were sublime.
Like I wish, you know, it was happening in the real time for me.
Well, I think one of the reasons you and I can't do that is because we do take up our leisure time with like three hours of a baseball game almost every day.
That's true.
That does crush your schedule a little bit.
I mean, I'm second screening that Met game every night.
Yeah.
I mean, yes.
No, that's one of the great things about baseball.
One of the things I've loved about it since I was a kid is that baseball comes on in April and then it's just on for half the year.
Like you have it on in the background, you have it on the radio, you have it on when you're cooking outside, like just baseball.
It's just around.
So that is a great thing about it.
But, you know, it's interesting.
We've talked about baseball and stuff on this show.
And I think because of the way we talk about it, someone wrote this into us that didn't put a name, but I'll read what they said.
They said, as a non-sports fan, I've always been very curious why fans refer to teams they support as we.
I've asked friends and never gotten a sufficient explanation.
Since you're both very succinct on this show, would you please try to explain this mentality to me because I'm unable to understand.
Thanks in advance.
And I want to be clear, if anybody is unsure of what this person is writing in...
You know, if Chris and I are sitting here talking about the Mets, we say, oh, we won that game.
Right.
Like, you know, we like we were on the team like we played.
And yeah, it comes up a lot.
In fact, it's it comes up a lot derisively, even by like sports fans like Seinfeld has a whole bit.
Right.
Like, yeah, no, no, no.
they played, you watched, right?
Like that's his joke.
So what is your explanation?
Let's see if, because this person says they have asked people to explain it and they've just never gotten a succinct and thorough explanation.
And so I take this as a personal challenge.
So do you rise to the occasion, Chris?
Can you explain this?
Well, it's almost unfair to mention that question
while talking about the Olympics, where it's basically, yeah, we won gold in the women's Olympics, but what?
That's a perfect analogy.
Continue, follow that through.
It's like, why are you saying we when you're talking about the Olympics?
Because they are representing the United States where you live.
You have a stake.
That's right.
So with a sports team,
It's not because you live in the place or because like a lot of times it is geographically you wind up rooting for a team.
But you have chosen a stake in this thing.
Right.
I mean, like how would you put it to words?
This is the team that I have emotional stakes in.
Like I am emotionally attached to this team.
To what I would say is more so than the players who are playing the game.
Like they get traded, they become free agents, they move on to a different team.
They don't know the full history of everything.
I have lived and died with like a generation and- Multiple.
Yeah, multiple generations of this team.
I have seen all of the heartache.
I have lived there.
I have processed it.
I have not processed it.
I am still processing the heartache experience
And the highs, the dizzying highs, the very low lows, like it is a part of me that makes up my DNA.
Like the Mets are entwined with who I am, you know, like just like when I talk about, oh, Yankee fans and how they can be, you know, aggressive and bullies.
Guess what?
That's what they were in the 90s and early aughts.
They were pushy, show-offy, and they thought that their shit didn't stink.
Meanwhile, the Mets were scrappy, were the underdogs, were the younger brothers.
you've projected like avatars on to like, it's, it's like, like in from your life, the idea of like you scrappy underdog, younger brother, which you are like all those things.
And the bully older brother, you know, arrogant perpetual front runners are the Yankees.
And that is a, like, you're not just rooting for a team versus another team.
You're like, this is my life.
Like I'm projecting my life onto this.
Yes.
Yes.
That's just how it is.
And that's why I can say we won the game.
And I'm sure this is true for Padre fans.
This is true for Dodger fans and whoever, in whichever sport.
Football, basketball, baseball, squash.
It's universal.
Anything you're rooting for.
Just like in England, they live and die on their football clubs.
It is part of your being that is just impossible to extract one from the other.
Totally.
Total identity stuff.
And I agree with everything you said.
I would say I have absolutely earned the right on the basis of how much I've put in to consider myself part of this team environment.
I don't play on the team, but I am a part of the team community.
So it's the team community where when I say yes to watching a season of this team, it's because I am...
saying I'm okay with the decisions they've made.
I'm on board with like, okay, we've signed this guy.
We've decided to let this contract expire.
Like I have said, okay, time for us to go, right?
If there's a sport I'm following or a team I'm following where they start making decisions I don't agree with and I bail, I'm no longer calling them we, right?
Like, I just turned it to the New York Giants, right?
Like, I'm not in it anymore.
And I'm going to go one further than emotional investment.
Like, it's investing capital, right?
Like, I would liken this a lot to my retirement portfolio.
That when I go downstairs to tell Dawn, like, something about our finances, I will say...
We made a lot of money this week.
Or we took a hit, right?
I didn't fucking do anything to the money.
I just made decisions about where it's invested long ago.
And now I'm watching other people who manage those things, watching them play it out.
But of course you would say, we lost the money.
You wouldn't be like, oh, some random money that is out there was...
No, it's yours.
You invested it, right?
I have invested my time, my money into this team.
I absolutely have invested a lot of money into the Mets over the years, going to games, buying merchandise, having cable subscriptions and streaming subscriptions.
It's money, time, and emotion.
And if they do well or they do badly, it affects my mood.
It affects my day.
It affects my future because I make plans based on whether they're doing well or not.
Right.
Like I said, the minute I disengage from a team, I no longer have any investment at stake.
Just like if I closed out an account with a mutual fund.
If I had no money in the fund, I wouldn't look at that fund on how it's doing and be like, oh man, we did well that week.
No, that would make no sense.
I have no money in it.
And the other thing is I fully absorb this for other fans as well.
Like if I'm talking to a Yankee fan, I'm like, hey, you guys, you know, did great moves at the trade deadline.
Like I assume other people put the same investment in as I do.
So it's not like this like weird like –
just for myself.
I have this assumption that it projects outward to other fans as well.
And I would assume like if someone was talking and they were just saying like, oh yeah, the team did this, the team did that, I would actually judge that they're not as invested as I am.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
It is definitely, it is about investment.
And there have been years where, you know, you and I both are like, yeah, we're out.
We're cashing out.
Yeah.
Exactly.
You've got to manage your investment.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And there have been times this year and as well as other years where I have sold a bunch of stock, to use your analogy, and I've bought them right back as a
take a break right you get a little you get a little antsy but then you know you talk to someone with a cool reasonable head they're like you know things move up things move down take it easy right and you ease back in that's right that's right and uh and yeah i'm proud to uh to to have that as part of my uh personality i mean man i can chart like some of my worst days of my life to uh the mets losing yeah
Rachel Maddow said she thought you were going to get arrested in 2006 after the Mets law.
Can I tell you, man, that was the nadir, I'd say, of my, you know, it was like one of the worst days of my life.
I remember you came into work the next day and you said, they made me pray to God and I hate them for that.
Oh my God.
I mean, they were one swing away from... I mean, folks who are not Mets fans, you don't understand.
The Mets were playing the Cardinals.
It was game seven of the damn playoffs.
Winner goes to the World Series to face the damn... Which the Cardinals won, by the way, the World Series.
Yeah, they played the damn Detroit Tigers.
And Andy Chavez makes a miraculous catch to save the game from a home run.
And it's double play.
It's amazing.
It's amazing.
And then Carlos Beltran with the bases loaded just looks at an Adam Wainwright curveball, like probably the best curveball I've ever seen.
But the curveball and you and I are watching this game with Rachel Maddow at the bar, the shitty bar in the city.
I'll never forgive that bar.
And...
Dude.
Oh, it was one of the worst bars ever.
Yeah.
And I was so upset.
I believe you and I both walked out of that bar without saying a single word.
Like on the pitch.
Yes.
Like pitch over, walked out.
Yeah, never said a word.
Brendan, what I did later that night, because I had to get my bag from the office.
I know you've seen Punch Drunk Love.
I literally reenacted the scene from Punch Drunk Love of him going into the bathroom and just wailing on that bathroom.
I destroyed that bathroom, Brendan.
It had to pay.
These were the emotional stakes.
And can I tell you something?
Rachel Maddow.
Went into that bathroom afterwards, and she cleaned it up for me.
Oh.
Yeah.
I apologized to her, and I thanked her, but that was the worst day.
And also, on the train ride home, I see my ex-girlfriend, and she's there with her boyfriend, and I have to make chit-chat with them.
It was the worst night of my life.
I can honestly say that.
It was bad, bad times.
Yeah.
I do remember, like, the following year, we were in the studio, and Michael Moore was in there, and you were, like, getting his mic set up or something.
And to loop this all back around to what we were talking about, you know, you made some comment to him about, like, oh, the Tigers, you know, hey, almost made it there last year.
And, like, I think you probably had a Mets shirt on or your Mets hat or something.
And he, like, he was like, well, oh, but the...
Mets didn't even make it there.
He was shit-talking just as a good fan does.
And you go, oh, we would have killed your Tigers.
I love that.
For some reason, I have no, what's the word?
Just reverence.
Decorum?
Yeah.
I'm just like totally shit-talking very famous guests with no problem whatsoever.
You're like, this guy could make a documentary in five minutes that'd destroy my whole life.
Immediately, right now, you could decide, I think I'm going to end this guy.
Yeah.
Bowling for perverts.
The Crystal Presto story.
And with the perverts.
Jesus Christ.
The bedwetters.
You're like J.D.
Vance, man.
It's so easy to tag you.
You couch fucker.
Why is that the funniest goddamn thing?
The fucking couch fucking.
Oh, boy.
By the way, what a reversal of fortune from a week ago or two weeks ago when Biden was a corpse.
It's a new day, man.
Holy shit.
It so clearly has buoyed Mark's spirits.
He's got so much more pep in his staff.
He's on these intros.
He's like, all right, are we ready to go?
Yeah.
Thank God, by the way.
I appreciated you including that in the bonus stuff.
I needed that.
Like, I needed that little B12 shot of adrenaline of like, we can do this shit, you know?
Like, I just needed that, that mark in my life.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think now that he's fully kind of invested in it, it's definitely helping his mood just in general.
It's not all this like, oh man, when I'm in Canada, I don't feel this stuff anymore.
He's feeling energized by it.
Right, right.
And when he's talking about canceling shows, it's not, well, it could be because we're an authoritarian rule.
It's just like, ah, you know, I'm going to be shooting a movie.
He's like, it's a lot to...
A lot sunnier outlook, I will say.
Yeah.
Well, sorry to everyone who has had to reschedule their shows after getting tickets.
But yes, we will continue to update that on wtfpod.com slash tour.
And yeah, this week I thought good shows.
And I really, really liked Wolfgang Van Halen as a person.
Like I said to Mark, like...
Man, what a good guy, and what a fucking saint Valerie Bertinelli must be.
To get a kid that good in that crazy of an environment, she did some... I mean, I don't want to take Eddie's hand out of it, but he clearly mentioned that Eddie was messed up for a lot of his life and growing up, and it was a tough thing, that kind of codependent relationship with a parent who's an addict.
Yeah.
But yeah, his mom must have been a real, real rock.
Yeah, for sure.
And with a name like Wolfgang Van Halen, you're really, you're kind of putting your thumb on the sorting hat, so to speak.
You could either be in the band or you could kill vampires.
Right.
Right, right, right.
You're not going to be waiting in Staples for the store manager named Wolfgang Van Halen.
That's just not going to happen.
If that ever happened, you'd be like, why don't you follow me?
Come out of this store.
We will go bring you to somewhere else that you should be.
But what a sweet guy.
Yes.
Like what a charming and just down to earth person.
And also a musical genius.
Like I can't believe he played all the instruments on his album, which I've listened to.
And it's quite impressive.
I was watching videos of him playing guitar and he like he's like his dad.
Like, I've done that with, like, Eddie Van Halen and stuff, and I'm not a guitar player, and I don't know, like, you know, the extent of difficulty of guitar, but I know enough to see someone doing something where it sounds... Like, I could watch, like, you know, a video of, like, Brian May from Queen, and I'm like, holy crap, that's, like...
incredibly impressive and it was the same thing watching videos of wolfgang van halen at like small shows too but he's just like a monster on the guitar like just like his dad wow and uh amazing that uh 80s rockers uh do not enjoy him like that it honestly reminds me of uh wrestlers from the
Yes, I had that same thought.
Like, oh, yeah, they're so inclusive and, you know, they're part of their own community and fuck you for trying to be part of it.
Yeah, like these old wrestlers, like you'll have The Undertaker who's like, you know, he spent his whole entire career never talking and now he won't shut the fuck up.
He's like got a podcast and YouTube shows and everything and he's just this old racist from Texas.
Like, I don't give a shit about what The Undertaker says.
Yeah.
But he's like one of the classic ones of like, oh, these kids, they're too, they play too many video games and they do, and it's like, he came up in a time in wrestling where these guys like did fucking awful shit to each other.
Right.
Shat in each other's bags and like, wouldn't let each other use ice on their injuries.
Like you had to,
tough it out and you had to go drinking and drink yourself into blackouts or you weren't a man like right fuck you and it's like the same thing like what does david lee roth have a problem with with this kid like you know it's just it's crazy it's yeah it's so silly and stupid and honestly it sucks that the fans are also kind of shitty towards him because yeah they learn they learn from them you know they learn from their heroes
Exactly.
And unfortunately, that's true with wrestlers and rock stars, apparently.
But I really enjoyed that.
Sports, too.
Oh, yeah, sports.
Oh, my God.
Sports is the worst one of all of them.
Yeah.
Not doing it the right way.
Yes.
Oh, shouldn't be celebrating.
I mean, most of the time, it's always code for this guy's too black, right?
Or this guy's too...
you know, Latino, a person of color doing something, a white person takes offense to is basically the tale is all this time, you know, like via Ty Cobb or one of those shitty Atlanta catchers.
I forget his name.
Oh, uh, Brian McCann.
Yeah.
Brian McCann was, was the, was a hothead.
And I just do not enjoy that.
Um,
I'm enjoying that a lot of Mark's guests have been talking up Peter Gabriel.
And I hope Mark has to now reconsider Peter Gabriel.
Yeah.
Because these people are holding him in high regard.
I'm pretty sure he's going to be like, all right, I'm just going to listen to a bunch of Peter Gabriel to figure out what's going on there.
You know what I think is the deal with Peter Gabriel?
Mark's never going to come around to it.
Why?
Why?
it's too um produced it's too theatrical especially that album so and also like the later ones up it's like listening to somebody who's claims to be a rock star but really what they are is like a big broadway mega musical and they're like presenting everything in this with this huge grand theatricality and it all sounds very like sonic and there's there's layering and all this stuff like
I mean, you've listened to Mark for decades here.
He's like a blues brain guy that needs everything to be raw and he wants it to be authentic.
And I just don't think he's ever going to get that from Peter Gabriel.
But he likes Brian Eno, who's like that.
Yeah, but that's a good example.
So Brian Eno, though, it's synth music or it's ambient stuff, but he is very much like, I'm doing this right now, me.
I made this sound, right?
It's not this sonic landscape.
I think that probably factors into Mark having a tough time really engaging with Brian Wilson, right?
Right.
And the, and the early beach boys.
Right.
He's just, he, he doesn't tap in when it's like this to what something like to me, I'm like, wow, this is so impressive.
And like, you know, um, sonically enjoyable.
I also think like Mark's not just a huge fan of like, you know, characters in songs.
Like he always wants to personalize it.
It's always this thing that comes up when he's talking to a musician and he's like, so when you wrote this and blah, blah.
And like the person's like, that was a character.
Yeah.
And he's like, what?
Like, the beast in me is a character?
That's not really you?
That's great.
I mean, but when he interviewed Bruce Springsteen, he didn't have that sort of hang up.
He's not a huge fan of Bruce Springsteen.
Oh, I see.
And yeah, I guess that goes back to like, yeah, he's just not okay with the character sort of thing.
Okay, I gotcha.
I gotcha.
All right, that tracks.
Yeah, I mean, frankly, I think for interview's sake, that always winds up working out.
It was a huge benefit that he was not a big Bruce fan, not a big Trey from Fish fan.
He winds up having a better conversation then.
Yeah, that's true.
I want to ask you about the vault riffs.
Is there like a wheel of riffs that you just spin every episode while Mark's in Vancouver?
I've just been going back so that I don't have to like go through all my stuff, but going back to like more recent stuff so that it doesn't sound so out of place with like his skills now, right?
So it's not like 10 years ago, Mark Guitar.
It's more modern.
Oh, I see.
And I want to find something that's like, you know, on the shorter side, tonally consistent with what came before and, you know, has a nice beginning and end so that, you know, he can it can end with some boomer lives stuff and whatnot.
And really, yeah, there's no rhyme or reason.
I just go through it to hear what sounds good and put it in.
And it's all stuff from within the last two and three years.
And how much do you have?
Do you have just a bank?
It's like Scrooge McDuck.
Every episode ever made.
Oh, OK.
So you just have a bank of all these riffs that.
Well, I mean, I just go into an episode.
Right.
And I have it when I build an episode.
I have each episode gets put into a folder.
Right.
And in that folder are all the files that made up that episode.
Yeah.
And the last time I did an episode where he played guitar like that guitar goes on its own file and it says guitar from episode, you know, 1559.
Right.
Oh, okay.
So he's not giving you like, here's like 20 riffs.
Oh, no, no, no.
He does.
Every time you hear a show with a guitar in it, he did that at the same time he recorded the intro for that show.
Oh, okay.
Gotcha.
And he sends it to me and, you know, it, he usually records that first so that it's like something he can noodle around with and get it to the place he wants to get it.
And then that also like sparks his brain and he starts being able to, you know, get to some things he wants to talk about, which is all pretty free form.
In the monologue.
Oh, okay.
Oh, cool.
So this is like, yeah, he sends me the file and the file has a chunk of guitar at the beginning and then a bunch of talking.
Oh, wow.
So I didn't know that, that that's the process, that noodle with the guitar and then do the monologue.
Oh, that's fascinating.
And I like that.
It gets his juices going.
Also enjoyed the bonus episode this week.
I would personally murder the hotel if they didn't have blackout shades.
I don't know how that hotel gets a pass for him.
I would figure out how to make blackout shades myself.
I can't think of being in a room without him.
no it's like if i went over to somebody's house and they didn't have them i'd be like you gotta like put a mattress up against the window or something because i can't deal cardboard or anything yeah i don't care uh but yeah i i also use a variety of uh sleep masks myself uh not so much velvet but uh but yeah i'm happy mark is getting that was weird velvet that's like that's too hot yeah i'm just like what like we're two very different people mark and i am like
I would not enjoy that on my eyes.
Like you're just like, I would.
All right.
But I will say that was the one I'm glad you brought this up because I remembered again, listening to it, that it was the one thing I really regretted cutting when I did that episode, because it did make me laugh out loud was that he's like talking about putting that sleep mask on.
And he's like, so I'll see how long that lasts before I wake up in the middle of the night, tearing it off my face thing.
And I'm dying.
Yeah.
that's just great another thing that makes me laugh very much and i often have to cut it out i mean i always cut it out of the regular episodes but i very rarely get to include it for the folks here because it's usually in the midst of like him doing an ad read or that okay but this was a genuine in the wild mark freaking out because words aren't coming out of his mouth right and then just cursing a blue streak
Those are, those are, that's like one of the more enjoyable things about the job is that I get those gifts.
They're so unexpected.
And like, it's just great.
Like the way, I'm sorry, but the way Mark says some words, some curse words, it's really like, uh, like chewing molasses.
It's really nice.
Like,
Oh, well, here, let me show you, let me play for you my favorite of all time.
It's a good excuse to be able to do that.
Oh, good.
Let's see if you can hear this.
Send letters, ship packages, and pay a lot less with discounted, and pay a lot less with discounted, cunt and shit fucking balls, and you eat your fucking ass with your hand.
Send letters, ship some packages, and pay a lot less with discounted rates from USPS, UPS, and more.
Yeah.
Just gold.
Yeah.
I mean, like, that's the problem.
I won't go and say exactly what he was recording that one for, but I think people who listen to the show know what that was.
But that's the problem is that it's like 99% of the time it's during a sponsor read.
And I'm like, yeah, I can't include these.
Well, as as your guest on Thursday, and I was saying, yeah, you know, she has to run by her ads because of something that she did on one of you seeing.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
You know, we we typically don't do that.
I mean, every now and then we have a client who wants the ads done in advance.
and that's fine but we very we don't have what she has i think what she's saying oh that's because of me now i'm like yeah but i'm pretty sure it's confined to you or people who have also violated similar principles right yes uh i'm anna oh yeah why do i want to hear how you go with this one it's only five letters bro c c
let's see how can how many combinations can you can you twist this one into by the way just so you don't feel bad before you give this take a stab at this mark couldn't get it either and i had to send him an audio file pronouncing her name so uh you you know take a stab go nuts
Anna Akana.
You got it.
Oh, my God.
I feel like we should get little fireworks on the screen here.
Oh, man.
She was really great.
And I'm so proud I can pronounce her name.
But, yeah, really fun episode.
Also, fun.
I mean, I do think they had fun.
But, man, there was some heavy shit in here.
So, listen, this was...
Suicide talk was front and center.
And I noticed Mark had a lot of like suicide prevention hotline stuff.
Yes.
How did you did you find that that was hard to or did you have to put that in because of all of the talk?
Well, I just choose to.
I have those standards set in me from the news work that I've done.
These are sensitive subjects, and there's no reason not to have a content warning, first of all.
Yeah.
But just from CDC guidelines...
suicide has a tremendous social contagion.
People often are more inclined to act on certain impulses when they hear about suicide and when it's discussed.
So just from the standpoint of wanting to be responsible with this type of conversation, and I think Mark and Anna were responsible in their conversation,
But I want to make sure we're responsible with that stuff with the listeners.
So that's just standard for me.
I definitely regret times in my life that I didn't do it.
So, you know, I always want to make sure that I do.
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
Well, I thought it was really well handled and they talked about it in a really sober way, I guess is the way I would say it.
I think so.
I found her dad, you know, watching anime was probably the most...
crazy part of that whole interview.
Is it wrong to pick up a girl in a dungeon?
That was bizarre.
I can't believe people actually watch anime with family.
Like with the family.
Yeah, that just seems like a bridge too far, so to speak.
The thing that I...
was like just so i guess disturbed is the way to talk about it and it's not like i don't know about these things but the way she was talking about the stalking yeah and like that it made her stop doing comedy and she was being threatened her life was being threatened like you think about these things from like an idle perspective like it happens and this and that she mentioned in passing this story of this woman who was on like america's got talent this young woman who young singer and
who was then doing like a meet and greet and person shot her to death.
Like I had not heard of that person before.
And I like looked it up.
I'm like, this was like a person, like a full on like recording artist had big sales because of her, you know, appearances on TV and was just killed by a, you know, mentally disturbed fan.
Yeah.
Like, those stories make me, like, it makes me not even want to do what I'm doing right now with you.
Like, I'm like, I don't fucking want ever any, like, public attention.
Yeah.
Ever.
Like, it's like, I just, it really goes to the core of, I guess, something that was in my head.
I've talked about this before, and you've asked me questions about it, and I answer honestly that, like, when I was a kid, even if I was, like,
doing things that showed like an aptitude toward like public performance or something.
And people were like, you should do this.
You should be on TV or whatever.
Like my brain was always like, nah, I never want to do this.
And I really think like hearing those kinds of stories, it's almost, it almost triggers something from like my youth that I'm like, that's exactly what I didn't want.
Like I didn't, I never wanted that type of attention that people would,
develop these type of relationships with you that you don't have with them it just seems terrifying to me right and i i guess that that's why you're not a big social media person um i think about it uh you know with mark and also with other famous people where they're they're you know people now know that oh mark's in vancouver and you know they're you know they may be in this area and stuff so it's just like
Well, that's literally why I cut that thing out with Lily Gladstone.
You know what I'm talking about?
I'm like, we don't know what she wants people to know about where she's at right now.
Right.
And like it just it can lead to scary and tragic places.
And yeah, but people do this all the time.
Right.
Like I see famous people like, oh, I'm in the south of France or wherever.
And like, you know, they just geolocate themselves.
Yeah.
For some odd reason, you know, and like, I don't know, it's kind of, it's really terrifying.
And it's terrifying that I didn't know that story.
And she just, again, like you said, just like rattled it off and like, oh, God, this is so common that we don't even, you know, doesn't even become a blip on our radar.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I wonder, like, it's, I think the thing is that that is common is the, you know, kind of parasocial attachment that people have.
But what is common about that is it rarely ever results in that, right?
Like an act of physical violence.
And just hearing that it does happen, you're like, what the fuck?
fuck man like what like it's it's it is all done at our own hands in a way you know like that that this feeding this entertainment machine yeah for no reason by the way like you know like you don't you don't need a following you know i mean
maybe you know mark used to do this as part of his act where you know he and i think it was when he was getting like irritated back by you know uh the constant demands for content and like you know uh everyone had to have like three gigs and you know use this streaming show and a this and a that and be on youtube and like he would be talking about this and he's like haven't we been entertained enough right
There is part of me that truly believes that.
It's like, wait, do you really need more than like a book and like three movies?
Like, do you need more than that in your life?
Like, do we really need all this shit?
Right.
Here comes the fire hose, basically.
Like, that's what we are.
We're living in a fire hose of content these days.
We're sitting here contributing to it.
Yeah, that's true.
We're doing this thing that did not exist two years ago.
And now we're just like, yeah, we do this every Friday for you.
uh i i did enjoy mark listening to anna rattle off video game names uh and he's like it's like him listening to someone talk about a sport dude that's exactly what i was thinking is like this is just like a sport story where mark's like uh-huh uh-huh okay same tone like oh okay
Yeah.
And yeah, I also like when she mentioned that she was in Ant-Man, I was like, oh, he's going to have no idea what this is.
Like whether it had any relevance or whatnot.
Although I did remember her scene because it's the scene with the very funny Michael Pena where he does that.
He's got that running bit through all the Ant-Man movies.
He tells a story.
Where he tells a story, right?
And the people in the story are like, it's all his voiceover.
So they're like lip syncing with him.
And she's like, you know, like on a date with his cousin or something.
And she's the one who, and she's sitting on a bench with Anthony Mackie, who's, you know, the Falcon looking for Ant-Man.
And what it made me do is go back and watch those scenes in that movie.
And that guy is so good.
So good.
Yeah.
And it made me realize, oh yeah, I remember him being great in the whole movie.
There are certain times these people, character actors or whatever, get these parts in these superhero movies, and they have a director who knows how to utilize them, and they let them do their thing.
It's like John C. Reilly in the Guardians of the Galaxy or whatever, do that flustered thing or whatever.
And I remembered that about Ant-Man.
And then it actually did make me think about Ant-Man.
I was like, that's not bad.
Like Ant-Man is like fun.
Yes.
Like it's a fun little heist movie that you don't have to like worry too much about the full superhero mythos.
Yes.
There's no weight to it.
It's very light, so to speak.
Well, speaking of that, I know you last week went to see Deadpool and Wolverine.
Oh, I sure did.
Yeah.
Well, so explain you, you, you found yourself what you didn't like it or you just were like, what were your thoughts?
Well, I went in with, you know, you know, I'm, I'm sort of, uh, sort of low on my, on my Marvel stock, but I did go on opening day, you know?
So I did go like the very first day it was, it was out, but, uh,
Yeah, to put it short, the movie stinks.
It is, like, bad, bad.
Like, I've seen a lot of bad movies.
And I've seen most of the Marvel movies in the theater.
And this is by far one of the worst things I've ever sat through.
It's like the death proof of Marvel movies.
It is.
It's not fun.
It makes no sense.
And there are zero stakes to it.
You know, like, look.
I enjoy a movie.
I understand that they're fake, but I want the movie to have a stake.
Like, if someone is about to die or dies, that should be, you know, like, the way it is.
Not in this movie.
It's just a...
It avoids any sort of stakes that you would want or have in a movie.
And it just rings hollow.
It's just like a vessel for jokes.
And I've laughed like maybe six times throughout the entire movie.
But yeah, the movie takes place in a void, like an actual void, as if Marvel didn't learn from that goddamn movie.
other ant-man movie ant-man 3 that took place in a cgi void like this one right also takes place in a void uh and i knew i was in for a bad time honestly when the opening credits are happening and there's a story by card and it has four goddamn ampersands dude like four of them oh so five people all separated by an ampersand yes yes
So we know what that means.
That means no one wrote this movie together.
Yes, that is correct.
If you write a movie together, the WGA has you get credited with an and credit.
The word A-N-D, and, like written by Chris Lopresto and Brendan McDonald.
But if it's Chris Lopresto ampersand Brendan McDonald, it means Chris wrote it, then they gave Chris's script to me to rewrite.
Yes.
And so the more ampersands you get in that opening title, it's like the messier this thing was.
Yes.
Yes.
Dude, friends don't let friends watch movies with four ampersands.
No.
No, definitely not.
It is bad.
It is just – you also have to have watched like the Loki show, which –
See, that's what I fucking hate, dude.
This new requirement that you have to have seen things.
It's not even having seen the last big movie.
You have to watch some show nobody watched.
Right, right.
In the second season of the show.
Oy yi yi.
only way it kind of makes sense like it's it's basically nonsensical on the surface like the movie only makes sense in a meta context which i get it you know that's deadpool's whole thing you know i i loved the first two deadpool movies but like this it was just trying and failing to be a love letter to these fox marvel movies that were successful that
Like, you know, there was the X-Men and Logan.
Those were really, you know, excellent movies, right?
But this movie is sort of a love letter to the failures of that era of Fox movies, which is like Daredevil and Elektra and the Fantastic Four.
And like the X-Men, I don't know, the third X-Men movie.
I even forget what the, what was that, The Last Stand?
The Last Stand?
Yeah, yeah.
It's a love letter to those shitty movies.
Like, I just don't even understand it.
There's this weird nostalgia for shitty movies that I will not clap for.
Like, I see this all the time with people saying the prequel trilogy for Star Wars is actually good.
And like now they've come for these Fox Marvel movies.
And it's just like a no for me.
Like I'm just I'm just too old for this shit.
You know, I, you know, you can't serve me shit and call a chocolate ice cream and expect me to eat it up.
I just cannot do it, honestly.
So what?
You're not going to see this movie, huh?
Oh, no, I'll never see it.
And in fact, like if it's on in the room that I'm in, I'll walk out for it.
But that did get me thinking, and you talking about, like, especially saying that these things, you have to know something about from the Loki TV show.
Like, this is now, I think, a barrier of entry for people.
Now, not for Deadpool and Wolverine.
Let's make a billion dollars or whatever.
It'll be fine.
But, like...
Like I think about somebody like Mark who it's like, there's, there's like a big reason he doesn't go in for these movies is that he just thinks it's all part of this big thing that like he's got, it's the same reason he wouldn't listen to fish.
He's like, what?
I got to listen to all of this now.
Oh my God.
Totally.
Totally.
I think, especially now that all of this is basically... They've gone back and they've put to bed all these Fox Marvel movies.
You're going to move into a new phase of the MCU movies and that.
I want to do as a public service, which we do from time to time here, make a list, you and me,
of the essential movies.
This would be the kind of list we could give to someone like Mark or someone listening to us right now who is like, I don't go in for this stuff.
Is any of it any good?
Let's pull out the ones that are not just good and decent movies, but...
like essential, like for a reason, you'd say, yes, watch this.
It's excellent.
Or it doesn't have to be excellent.
It just has to serve a purpose.
So I have the list of all Marvel movies here, and we're just going to run through them and do like smash or trash.
If we want to talk through them, fine.
But at the end, we'll see what the list is.
And this would be the list that you would recommend this to a non-fan, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I think really our only rules here is for it to get on the list, we both have to have seen it.
Can't just say, like, I've heard that's good, right?
Or if one of us doesn't agree, it doesn't make the list until the other one convinces us it does.
So I could say, no, that's not getting on the list.
If you really feel like it absolutely needs to be, make your case, okay?
Okay, okay.
All right, so this goes back to... Well, it actually goes back to 1986 in that the first ever Marvel movie was Howard the Duck, which I don't think is getting on anybody's list ever.
No, no one's not.
But then, really, you jump all the way up to 1998...
And we start with that with Blade, which I would not put on the list.
I do not think you have to see Blade.
No, no, no one needs to see Blade.
But the next movie, I do think you have to see.
I think this is a good starting point for anybody.
And it's a good movie and a great idea of what makes superhero movies entertaining, what made comics entertaining.
And this was putting it onto the screen in a credible way for the first time.
The first X-Men movie, X-Men 1.
Yes.
Yes.
However, it's not great, but it definitely does the thing.
Yeah, that's the thing.
I feel like it is a good entry point for the great movies.
And it makes you go like, there's nothing offensive or bad about it.
That's the other thing.
And you don't have to know a whole bunch of lore.
It's introducing you to the concept of making a comic book movie in a modern environment.
Yes.
In a real environment.
Yes, I will say I push back on that movie because it's kind of like ashamed to be a comic book movie.
Like they go to great lengths to sort of make fun of like the costuming.
So everyone's in black leather.
And like, I believe on set, like the director.
was like no comic books on set.
We're not doing any comic books.
And that's where Kevin Feige was basically the person of truth who would tell the actors what their motivation is for their character.
So yes, I would say Smash for X-Men 1.
Oh, so you are?
Yeah, I'm saying put it on the list.
Yeah, I'm saying put it on the list, yeah.
Okay, so then you get Blade 2, which I don't think needs to be on there.
But 2002, Spider-Man.
Okay, this was the movie.
And this is a smash, by the way.
I remember where it was.
I was at the UA on 13th Street in Union Square.
Same, I saw it there too.
You saw it opening night.
I actually sat on the like on the steps because you didn't have.
Yeah, you couldn't have reserved seating.
And I guess I was late with my girlfriend.
So we just sat on the steps watching it.
And that was a great time.
And I say smash for that movie.
It is the full complement of comic books in the movies, and it holds up.
I watched it a couple years ago.
It's still pretty good.
Nice.
Okay.
So now, but also, it's what made the movies viable again.
I mean, the X-Men allowed them to make the Spider-Man movie, but then the Spider-Man one, they were like, okay, this is now full industry in Hollywood.
We're going to make comic book movies.
Yes.
Okay.
Which means you start to get some that are not essential.
So the next year you get the Daredevil movie.
That's a trash.
You get the Hulk.
That's a trash.
But I do think the, if you've watched the first X-Men, the second X-Men X2 is an even better movie.
That's a thing.
X2 is awesome.
Like, yeah, definitely smash that one for sure.
Okay, so you got the X2, then the following year you get the Punisher, garbage.
Trash.
Blade Trinity, never even seen it, never would want to see it.
Nope.
But Spider-Man 2.
Awesome.
Smash.
Yeah.
So Spider-Man 2, which at the time was basically considered the apex of superhero movies.
This was before the Chris Nolan Batman movies.
And yeah, I think you're going to have to see Spider-Man 2 if you've watched Spider-Man.
Yes.
Okay.
Now we're getting into some tricky territory.
Dicey roads ahead.
Electra.
Oh, I've never even saw it, honestly.
So I'm going to say trash.
Uh-huh.
Well, if we haven't seen it, it doesn't get on the list.
Fantastic Four, I've never seen.
I've seen that movie, and it is trash.
Also, both of those last two movies are referenced directly in the Daredevil and Wolverine movie.
Yeah, why?
Who cares?
Yeah.
that's the thing it's a love letter to these shitty movies that no one cares about it's so weird so but yeah go on X-Men The Last Stand that sucks no please please let's move on Ghost Rider oh no oh is that Nicolas Cage right yeah real bad yeah no trash Spider-Man 3 trash trash yes
Fantastic Four, Rise of the Silver Surfer.
Saw it, trash.
Okay, so now we're all the way up through 2008, and now the MCU starts because Marvel Studios releases its first two movies, and those are Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk.
Iron Man, Smash, Hulk.
You have to put that on there.
Yeah, yeah.
That is the skeleton key for the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
That's right.
And I think the thing about that is that if you're never going to get into all these movies, you're only going to watch a few of the essential ones.
That movie shows you the formula that they would then use to have this successful franchise over the course of 15 years, right?
Yeah.
Like, have this very charismatic lead performance who can, you know, essentially do improv and make, you know, the character be more than a one-dimensional comic book and
And then have a very simple structure to the story that, you know, they're going to easily repeat in all the movies after this.
I do think Iron Man is a very good, essential, important one.
But no for the Hulk.
No for Punisher Warzone.
No.
Uh, the following year you have X-Men Origins Wolverine.
Nah, that movie stinks.
Garbage.
Uh, and now we get into some other, uh, MCU ones.
Iron Man 2.
Super trash.
I hate that movie.
Yes, I agree.
That's trash.
Yeah.
Uh, Thor, I, well, what's your thought on Thor?
I don't like it at all.
I don't think you need anything having to do with the Thor individual movies, Thor 1 and 2 at all.
Yes.
This might be a little controversial here because people like this movie, but I think it's not only inessential, it's going to, for people who are non-fans, it's just confusing.
And all of these movies are confusing, the sequels to this.
X-Men First Class.
Oh, interesting.
I liked that movie, but it does... I like it fine, but I'm trying to think of it from the perspective of, would I recommend this to Mark?
And I would not.
He would get mad at me for that.
He'd be like, I watched the other X-Men, and now I have to watch new X-Men with the same guys?
Right.
Right.
It's this weird, we want to soft reboot these movies.
And it just doesn't work.
And yes, and especially now looking back, it's like, oh, this went nowhere.
It went nowhere.
Right.
So you're doing all this reinvesting for no reason.
It's like these Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies which are coming up.
You're right.
Okay.
But this one, I'm going to, like, if you're going to say no to this, I'm going to push back.
This to me is like one of my favorite movies of this Marvel universe.
The first Captain America.
Oh, no.
Captain America, the first Avenger.
That's a smash.
I mean, you got Tommy Lee Jones.
You have Peggy.
You have just the Steve Rogers arc is so good and thought out and well.
Chris Evans is great.
He's as good as Christopher Reeve.
He is one of the best embodiers of an impossible character.
Yes, you will believe a man would jump on a grenade in this movie.
It was so earned.
I 100% love this movie.
And I will put this movie on from time to time.
It's great.
Oh, good.
I'm right there with you on that.
Okay, so then there's a sequel to Ghost Rider, which I've never seen.
Nope.
Then you have the following year, you get The Avengers.
Okay.
Yeah, I mean, it's kind of- I say you absolutely would put this on a list.
You got it.
Especially because if you, so I'm looking at what we've told people to watch so far.
If you watched Iron Man and Captain America, you literally don't need to watch any other things.
Then you turn this one on and you're like, oh, there's those two guys, plus a whole bunch of new superheroes I didn't know about.
That's true.
Thor, the Hulk, the Black Widow, who didn't have her own movie at this point.
Hawkeye, who didn't have his own movie.
So I think it would be perfectly fine to roll on into this and see this big comic book extravaganza.
It's going to set up a big comic book extravaganza seven years later in Endgame.
So I think this is totally on the list.
Yeah, it's definitely essential.
Yeah, you've convinced me.
I was on the fence, but yeah, you need this one.
Okay.
So then the next thing is the, as mentioned, Andrew Garfield, the amazing Spider-Man.
I say no to this.
No, no.
All those movies are just bad.
Yeah, I agree.
All of them.
Iron Man 3.
I like that movie.
I do too, but I don't think you could put it on the list.
No.
I think it's actually like a way of a detour off the list.
Yes.
Yes.
yeah it's it's fun and it is so different than i like shane black being the the writer like i like the i like how it sounds in comparison to the other movies yes i mean basically if you double feature this with kiss kiss bang bang it's a great time but other than that it's like you don't need this to watch all the marvel movies
Yes, correct.
The Wolverine, that's the one where he's in feudal Japan, right?
Oh, yeah.
I saw that in the theater.
That is a pass.
Yes, same.
And same with Thor The Dark World, as mentioned.
No Thor movies.
But I'm going to go to bat for this one.
Captain America The Winter Soldier.
Oh.
I mean, what?
Who are you fighting here, boss?
No, no, but listen, I just want to make sure.
It's not just because it's like, oh, we got to put the Captain America movies in because we already watched one.
This stands alone.
If you're like a person who just likes 70s political thrillers, that's what this is.
Right.
It's like three days of the Condor, but with Captain America.
Right.
It is a genuinely good movie.
And where you said like, oh, Iron Man is like where they like figure things out.
Captain America Winter Soldier is where they sort of perfect it and sort of go, you know, sort of stack on top of Iron Man.
yes agreed okay so amazing spider-man 2 pass on that x-men days of future past again a movie i like but i'm not i'm not going to recommend it yeah no no it's way too involved and confusing if you are already if you're not like a big nerd for this stuff right right that's where the big nerds uh okay but then we have guardians of the galaxy
uh i say uh smash because big time this time i think that's the first real standalone smash too like you could be like hey you don't have to watch any of those other things i mentioned this one is fine you'll like it yes for sure okay uh then we got avengers age of ultron
Oh, that movie's real bad.
Yeah, no thanks.
And then, I can't believe this was 2015.
This feels like it came out like two years ago and bombed.
The rebooted Fantastic Four.
I mean, we're not even going to put it on the list.
It's terrible.
Yeah.
But...
And I'm saying it's terrible, and I have not even seen it.
We know it's terrible.
I've seen it.
It is real, real bad.
Poor Michael B. Jordan slumming it.
Oh, yeah.
Right.
But I just can't believe it was that long ago.
But anyway, so now it comes back to what started us on this topic of the list in the first place, Ant-Man.
Does Ant-Man go on this list considering that it is so much a standalone, enjoyable thing?
I would say yes.
I would be like, Ant-Man is one of those movies that requires no investment.
You could just sit down and you watch a heist movie where a guy teams up with ants to rob a place.
It's pretty fun.
It's Paul Rudd.
He's charming.
I would put this on the list for somebody like Mark.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's just an enjoyable time.
It's kind of like Honey, I Shrink the Kids sort of, you know, like, yeah, it's an enjoyable time.
I would definitely put it on the list.
All right.
There we go.
That's on there.
Okay.
We're getting into the later years here.
Deadpool, the first Deadpool.
I think you have to put it on the list.
see okay so this is gonna be the first one where i say no i would not put this on the list if you could convince me otherwise because my reasoning for saying no is that deadpool is the start of this stuff being all like inside jokes you have to know the references of the things they're joking about uh it's like it's an anti-comic comic movie and you know there's nothing i'm i'm not feeling like it's the
like throw it in the trash because it's garbage i'm thinking like if i showed deadpool to my mom she'd be like why'd you show me that like that was that was that was stupid oh yeah don't don't show your mom uh deadpool please uh for everyone listening she would watch like you know my mom like will watch silence of the lambs she's but like she knows what she's expecting with that you know yeah yeah
Yeah, all right.
I mean, for me, Deadpool is, you know, I remember when it first came out where, like, they leaked the footage because it wasn't going to get made.
And then because of the leaked footage, then they just made the whole movie.
And I remember just loving it in the theater.
But you're right.
It is chock full of references that you literally have to, you know—
be a nerd to really fully get.
And it also doesn't really go anywhere.
It is, again, in this Fox Marvel movie universe, which is just in the trash can anyway.
So it's like, yeah, why bother putting Deadpool in there if it's just going to die in the vine there?
Yeah.
All right.
Well, you did not convince me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It doesn't sound like you tried to.
No, you convinced me.
Okay.
Captain America Civil War.
Yeah.
I love that movie.
But do you think people need to watch that movie?
Because to me, my thing is there's a half hour sequence that I would show to people because it's great where all the heroes fight each other.
But I don't know that the movie is essential for watching and getting something out of this.
Right.
Well, it definitely draws battle lines.
And yes, that fight is incredible.
But there is something to that movie where you get to see someone like Ant-Man in the movie interacting with all these other people that he did not know were around or they didn't know he was around.
And you also get the introduction of Spider-Man.
And
That is true.
It is just a fun time.
Like, you know, I know it's dark.
This is sort of the era where Batman and Superman were fighting.
So when Marvel had Civil War, it's like, all right, well, our good guys are going to fight each other.
Yeah.
This was executed in a way where you could kind of see both sides of the coin.
And you know what?
It sets up a lot of the rest of Infinity War in particular.
It sets up, you know, Tony Stark and Captain America having a falling out and why they haven't talked in a while.
So it's like, I don't know.
I feel like I feel like that's essential viewing.
You're halfway getting me there.
And so here's what I'm going to do.
There's a movie coming up here that I would also not put on the list.
And I think that's controversial.
So I'm going to say no to Captain America Civil War and no to that other one.
And basically you get to veto me on one of those no's and put one of them in.
Are you going to be talking about Spider-Man Homecoming?
No, no, no.
I love that.
You really should watch that.
Yeah.
So the next two movies, I think we can knock these off, are X-Men Apocalypse.
I've never even seen it.
Oh, yeah.
That's bad.
I've seen it.
And Doctor Strange, which I like, but kind of the definition of inessential.
Oh, I hate that movie.
No.
I like Doctor Strange a lot.
You know what I like the best about Doctor Strange?
What?
Is that the ending is, you know, it's not a, you don't have the big apocalyptic, you know, city-destroying ending.
Mm-hmm.
He shows up on the scene and that has already happened.
The apocalyptic thing has happened and he has to go play a mind game against the bad guy.
That is very fun and refreshing to me.
And I like Cumberbatch in the whole movie.
I like Benedict Wong, the sidekick.
I enjoy Doctor Strange.
It is completely inessential.
But the next movie is the one I was going to strike.
And I'm not sure you feel the same way.
And I'm not sure most people would.
I think most people think this movie is, to me, is way overrated.
But most people think it's essential.
Logan.
Oh, wow.
I mean, I've recently watched that because I wanted to see it before I watched Wolverine and Deadpool.
And it is dark and it is long.
And I'd say that is inessential.
Yes.
Okay.
So by default, then, we're going to put Captain America Civil War.
You win out on that one.
No.
Okay, fair enough.
Yeah, it just, you know, Logan, it has a great legacy.
People love that movie.
Go back and watch it.
It's not that great.
It's just... Yeah, it's a typical James Mangold movie that never gets out of, you know, second gear.
It's very off-putting, the violence and the general negative nature of it.
It's like, this isn't fucking fun.
And I don't buy into that idea of like, oh, but it's real, man.
No, it's not.
There's guys with, you know, metal claws that, you know, that's not real at all.
Right.
So why does it have to be so, like, there's that really just terribly off-putting sequence with the family, the farm family.
Oh, yeah.
And they all just get murdered.
Like, I don't know, man.
That's a no for me.
Maybe other people think that's fun.
I did not think it was fun.
Okay.
Yeah, so this is in like, again, the Zack Snyder like sort of era where it's like, let's do dark and gritty.
Yeah, it's going to be hardcore, man.
Where like Superman snapping necks and it's just like, no, we lost the reason why we like these movies.
Exactly.
You guys are lost in the wilderness right now.
Let's reel it back in.
I feel the same way.
A movie that's not like that, a very fun movie, but I don't know.
I'm not sure it should make the list here.
Guardians of the Galaxy 2.
No, I didn't like that movie.
Sorry.
I mean, look, I've been to Kurt Russell's house.
I did not bring up this movie.
I should have.
If I had a little bit more time, I'd be like, dude, what was with Guardians of the Galaxy 2?
I just hated it.
I just did not enjoy it at all.
All right.
But we both said we already tipped our hand on this next one.
Spider-Man Homecoming.
That's a plus.
Dude, all of Tom Holland's Spider-Mans are just a joy, and this one is just great.
Okay, but I wouldn't say I'm going to add many of the other ones to the list here.
I think this one, though, what makes this essential to me, this is a perfect example of how the movies that are getting on our list here are largely movies that you could remove from the superhero genre, and they'd still work as some other thing.
So this works as a classic high school coming-of-age movie.
yes yes also you got Michael Keaton you got yeah he's great he's good bad guy because he has because you side with him he has a good rationale yes yeah like that that's really important but yeah Downey is in this in an extended role it's not just a cameo the Staten Island fairies in it yeah it's fun times oh all your friends all right I'm also going I am going to vouch for this next one Thor Ragnarok
why if you're trying to recommend these things to somebody and you want to show them all this stuff can be directed with style and flair and it doesn't you don't have to know anything about superheroes you know who was a big proponent of this movie lynn shelton he loved this movie uh that's i'm not saying that's why you put it on the list but i just think like you're you're
If you've never watched a Thor thing in your life, you could watch this and be totally satisfied.
Also, you get a style and a humor that's not in some of these other movies, that Taika Waititi, New Zealand, Flight of the Conchords, detached style.
Yeah, yeah, the rock friend and stuff.
Look, I liked this movie.
I think, unfortunately, Thor Love and Thunder sort of took the shine off of this movie for me.
Well, I really don't like that.
thor love and thunder yeah so but but yeah i i guess i had to go back to a time where i didn't have that sort of you know black cloud over my head and yeah i guess you know you you got um the hulk i'll say this i'm not selling you on it too hard because like i don't like if you said no take it off the list i'm like i it wouldn't kill me
Yeah, I just don't know if it's essential.
I mean, it's definitely the funnier of all the movies.
And this is coming off of Homecoming, which is funny and fun.
And Thor Ragnarok fits right in, especially with Ant-Man.
You're getting to sort of a comedy aspect of the superhero movies that, again...
with Logan, with some of these other movies that were out there in the wilderness, you were not getting at all.
So yeah, I'll put Ragnarok on that list.
You know what the funny thing is, Chris?
You're almost convincing me to go the other way.
You're almost convincing me to say, yeah, keep it off.
Because I do feel like ultimately you want to make a list that's essentials.
Is it truly an essential movie?
It's not.
Okay, so...
Stick with your convictions.
I say you keep it off.
Okay, great.
I'm keeping it off.
All right, but the next one has to go on.
Black Panther.
Oh my God, yes.
Yeah, I mean, beyond just even as a... I'm going to just come around and say it.
As a cultural signifier, it has to be on there.
Yeah, I remember I showed this movie to Erin, my wife, and she was like, into it.
She was like, let's watch the next one.
When's Black Panther back?
Yeah, unfortunately.
I know, I know.
What a fucking bummer that is.
I mean, you know, he's around for a couple of other ones, but yeah.
All right, also in 2018, that same year, I don't think you need to put any of these on here, Deadpool 2, Ant-Man and the Wasp, and Venom.
Oh, Venom, no.
Wait, that's the first Venom, right?
The first Venom, yeah.
It's actually pretty bad.
Yeah, it is really bad.
Okay, but that same year, 2018, this is going to be the hardest one for us to make a decision on, I think.
Avengers Infinity War.
That one's great.
No, it's not.
It's bad.
This movie is not good.
What?
Why would you say that?
It's not good.
This is the movie that ends with the cliffhanger that you know is not a cliffhanger.
This is a long, boring movie that does not actually get out of the blocks.
It's a generally unsatisfying thing because it ends, like I said, with this thing where you're like, well, I know they didn't just kill Black Panther for good.
So it's just that, you know, how are they going to get out of the cock-a-doodie car come time to the next movie?
I had to sit down and watch this during the pandemic again.
Dawn had never seen it, so we watched it again.
It is a slog.
All that stuff with Thor making his axe up in space.
This is a hard sit.
There's no way on that level you would ever convince me to put this on a list.
It's not a good movie.
It is, however...
is essential to the storytelling of Avengers Endgame.
Yes.
And I really don't know how you get around that.
Yes, that is right.
Like, you can't not put this on the list and put Endgame on the list.
You just wouldn't make sense.
It's unfortunate.
You know, I mean, look, yes, there are bad spots to this movie.
Like, the Thor stuff with the guy from Game of Thrones, really awful.
The whole Vision stuff with Scarlet Witch, like, just passed.
However...
You get Captain America showing up.
You get, you know, Tony Stark and Spider-Man fighting the, you know, on the spaceship.
Like that stuff.
And also Doctor Strange.
You get two Sherlock Holmes in this movie, you know, trading quibs.
You know, like I found that to be enjoyable.
And yeah.
Yeah.
It ends on a fake cliffhanger.
But, I mean, you still get, you know, the Guardians of the Galaxy interacting with Tony Stark.
Like, it is a fun time.
Like, I, you know, I think those two aspects of the movie that are kind of slugs, they're kind of washed away when you're talking about the rest of the stuff that happens.
Where...
You get to have Black Panther, you know, with Captain America and get that guy his shield.
And like everyone's fighting in Wakanda like that.
I don't know.
It's a good time at the movies.
Like that is what you want from these movies is to have this sort of a team up.
You know, that's where all these Avengers are.
You know, they're all teaming up.
And like for me, it stays in.
Like it's a smash for me.
Well, nothing you said would have convinced me to put it on the list.
You did not sell me on it.
No.
But I think I sold myself in the sense that I don't think you can watch.
I basically think it's like if somebody told you, here's a concept album.
You have to listen to the whole thing to get it.
And the first side is really slow and you're not going to enjoy it.
It's not great melodies on here.
But by the time you turn the album over and you listen to the second side, when you get to the end, it all makes sense.
Like from that perspective, I do think it's got to be on there.
Unfortunately, it's a two and a half hour movie that I don't think is fully worth it.
But it's just like it's the first part of a two part thing.
And the second part is awesome.
You have to watch the second part.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's just no shot.
Avengers Endgame is where it all just culminates.
Can we just say this is... I mean, how many movies does the MCU do?
Is it like 23 at this point from Iron Man to Avengers Endgame?
Yeah, I think that maybe it was 21 when they got to this one.
Can I just say...
Bravo.
It's a tremendous feat.
They did a thing that was not a thing until they did it or tried it.
This is a remarkable achievement, and they stuck the landing here.
Moving forward, TBD, but they stuck the landing with Endgame.
It is truly a wonderful accomplishment for this comic book movie.
Yes.
Well, okay.
So no doubt that goes on the list as well.
The other movies from 2019, I'm not so sure.
Actually, I would say no to most of them.
Captain Marvel, Dark Phoenix.
That movie was so bad.
God damn, I hated that movie.
But a movie that's good, Spider-Man Far From Home, I would not put that on this list either.
Me either.
Even though I enjoy it, it's just, it is so removed.
It's a second part.
yes yeah right you definitely don't uh i don't even know what the new mutants is i mean i remember it coming out but i didn't look at it for five seconds i saw it on hbo it was uh real bad real real okay yeah uh i think other ones we can skip over here venom let there be carnage that was super fun yeah i mean look it is fun but it's like i mean it's almost the definition of inessential yeah
Yes, but if you want to crack a beer and watch a comic book movie, you could do worse things.
That's probably true, yes.
The Eternals is nothing anybody ever talks about, so I can't imagine putting that on here.
That movie is so...
It breaks my brain that that was a movie that exists.
Like the end of that movie has like a giant robot coming out of the world, like the planet Earth.
And like – and then it just stops.
And then it's just there and no one – and like there are many more movies and no one talks about it.
It's brilliant.
Bizarre.
Well, I mean, I don't know that... I'm looking at the full rest of this list.
I'm going to list off a lot of names here, and I don't think any of them make it on the list.
Oh, yeah, no.
This is the bad time for... All right.
Well, first I'll mention the one that I would give... If you're into putting it on the list, I would put it on the list, too.
But I'm not like 100%.
Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings.
unfortunately it's just not essential like it's a i like that you know the you know what it is but yeah like again it's one of those things where i talk about if you remove it from superhero land it's a fun kung fu movie exactly and like it just doesn't lead to anything that's the problem with all these other you know the rest of these movies it's like it doesn't go anywhere it just kind of you just spin your wheel uh right like doesn't
I think that's the case with almost all of these.
Black Widow, Morbius, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse, Thor Love and Thunder, Black Panther, Wakanda Forever, Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quantumania.
We're trashing all of these.
Yeah.
The Marvels.
Yes.
uh okay so now there's two more to discuss i skipped over one from 2021 because it's worth a discussion i'm leaning toward no but maybe you can convince me otherwise spider-man no way home this is the one with all the you know multiple spider-men and villains from all the other movies i would say no but you tell me if you think strongly otherwise
No, this is a trash for me.
I mean, look, I'm not a big Doctor Strange fan, and the movie just kind of doesn't make sense, and I mean, it's fun.
It's a fan service thing.
And so if you're not into this for that essential reason, if you're not into it, if you're just like, I'd like to watch a movie, please, and you don't want to go cheer in the theater because Tobey Maguire just showed up, then this is not essential.
Yeah, exactly.
It's fun for that one time, and after that, it's diminishing returns.
Yeah, I mean, basically, and I was going to say the same thing about Guardians of the Galaxy 3.
I don't think it goes on this list.
I liked it.
I like that it's like their little curtain call for this team.
They're probably not going to be back in more movies.
But I don't understand why you need anything other than Endgame.
Like, I'm looking at our list here, and it ends with Endgame.
And if you watched all these that we put on this list, why do you need this Guardians of the Galaxy to bump on the end there?
Yeah, you know...
So Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is, like you said, a curtain call.
But it's also a lovely ending.
But Endgame is the perfect ending.
That's the ending.
If they just ended there, I'd be like, we'd all be applauding.
Unfortunately, there's just too much money to be made.
And yeah, so Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is a hat on a hat.
And you just don't need it, unfortunately.
Exactly.
Okay, so that brings us all the way up to 2024, where there have been only two Marvel movies this year, and there are none of them in the MCU, by the way, thanks to the strikes.
So you've had only two.
One you just saw, Deadpool and Wolverine, which you said is not good.
Yeah, and what's the other one?
The other one, I think I've got to put it on the list.
I think I've got to put it on the list and put it on the list as the absolute last movie to watch on this list.
Wait, is it Ms.
Marvel?
The Marvels?
No.
No, Marvels was last year.
We already trashed that.
Okay.
What movie?
Madame Web.
Ha ha ha!
And hear me out.
This is why I think it's essential.
I think it is absolutely essential if you were to show people like the movies that we've mentioned on this list and get them all the way through them and then go, now do you want to see a universe in which these things were garbage?
And like spectacular garbage that nobody making it knew what the fuck they were doing or gave a shit about how it was being made.
Here you go.
I would put it on the list.
That would just be... That would be so mean.
Like you want to see a dead body?
Yeah, I mean people do.
That's the thing.
Oh man, that's funny.
I don't...
I can't argue against it because, again, I had a fun time watching that movie.
We fucking spent two hours talking about it.
I'm here.
Yes.
I know we made people who listened to this go watch it who had no intention of watching it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, this never even crossed my mind when you mentioned this.
Yeah.
I guess I would say, yeah, why not?
Although, again, we're ending with Endgame, and then to just have Madame Web?
It's a chaser, buddy.
You never did that?
You never had a Boilermaker?
Ha, ha, ha.
Let's do it.
Let's fucking be legends.
Put Madame Webb on the list.
I'm going to get my Mountain Dew and just hold it awkwardly in my hand as I watch it.
All right.
So I think we got 15 movies on here, which is, you know, that's a pared down list considering, you know, what we're dealing with here.
So here, let me go through the list and let's see how we feel about this.
Have you got any last minute arguments about taking something on or off?
Here we go.
You got X-Men, Spider-Man, X2, Spider-Man 2.
Iron Man, Captain America The First Avenger, The Avengers, Captain America Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man, Captain America Civil War, Black Panther, Avengers Infinity War, and Avengers Endgame, and then follow all that up with Madame Web.
Oh, man, that's a tight list.
That is tight.
I think so.
I actually, like, in reading it, I was like, you know, the one that you could boot off there as saying it's not essential is Ant-Man.
But I think it actually works on this list.
Yeah, it does.
Like, I feel like it makes the list less cumbersome.
Like, you're like, man, just watch that one where they go invade, you know, Michael Douglas's lab.
Right, right.
With ants.
yeah no that that actually gets me hyped to watch these movies actually like i might i might just watch those like that yeah hey it would take you two weeks you burn through them you know it's a good summer activity you want to get the taste of deadpool wolverine out of your mouth watch one of these a night for two weeks yeah and then you know madame webb whenever you want watch that two or three times
Uh, uh, all right.
Well, I think we did good work.
I think Kevin Fiji owes us some, uh, some, some royalties for this.
We've, we've, uh, we've, we've upped it.
We've, we've, uh, given, you know, these movies some extra life.
And so, yeah, I expect that check in the mail tomorrow.
Um,
And if you have things you want on the list or off the list or you think this whole exercise is pointless, please let us know.
Just go to the comments there.
The link is right in the episode description.
You can send us whatever you want.
If Liquid Death keeps on giving you guys cases of Liquid Death long after they've sponsored, I'm sure Kevin Feige can find some Marvel money for you.
Yeah, it's in the couch cushions, man.
Like, just scrounge it up.
They're giving Robert Downey $800 million to come back and play Doctor Doom.
Calm down there, J.D.
Vance.
Couch is on the mind.
LAUGHTER
I mean, what – so how do you feel about Robert Downey Jr.
becoming – again, going back into the well for like 800 – how much – I think it's like $80 million, right?
80 million, something like that, yeah.
Like, what a payday.
Like, god damn.
Yeah.
Hey, I don't care about that.
I also don't like, I mean, I know that there are comic people out there that are like, that's not Dr. Doom or whatever.
And it's like, I don't care.
I'll go see Robert Downey back in one of these Marvel movies.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And guess what?
I bet all of these guys who made Marvel like really fun are going to do the same thing.
Like they all want to be now the bad guys.
So I look forward to seeing Captain America as, you know, I don't know, Galactus or some shit.
Yeah.
But this is our list.
We did that again.
If you want to add to it, subtract from it, send us a comment.
Just click on there in the episode description.
And we will be back next week.
Until then, I'm Brendan, and that's Chris.
Peace!
Fucking cunt cock.