BONUS The Friday Show - On the QT: Django Unchained
Guest:Okay, we watched an identical scene of this in Kill Bill, and it sucked.
Guest:And this scene is awesome, and it's no different.
Guest:It's one guy telling a story.
Guest:Now, the story he's telling is better, and the guy telling it is better.
Marc:Chris, we're back.
Marc:We're back, buddy.
Marc:We did it.
Marc:Good to see you.
Marc:It's great to see you, pal.
Guest:Yeah, it's been a while.
Guest:It's been a while.
Guest:It's been longer than people listening know, because we put some stuff on tape.
Guest:We were, you know, away for, I think, three weeks.
Guest:And now we are back face to face.
Guest:I've missed it.
Guest:I will say I've absolutely missed it.
Guest:Well, I bet you have because it's like certain things happen and you're like, man, I just want to get on the mics and talk about this.
Guest:Like, you know, I'm not saying anything specifically.
Guest:I'm just saying like hypothetically, like if you saw a headline that said Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Guest:sawed the head off a whale and drove it home, daughter says, that might be something you want to talk about.
Marc:Yeah, just a little bit, you know, like turn the mics on.
Marc:Like, was the whale's name Marvin?
Marc:No, no, no, they didn't.
Marc:It wasn't in the trunk.
Marc:It was on top of the car.
Marc:You see the sign in the front of my house that says dead whale storage?
Guest:Look, I'm going to read this here, right here.
Guest:On Monday, the political arm of the Center for Biology and Diversity called on federal authorities to investigate an episode recounted by Mr. Kennedy's daughter in a 2012 magazine article.
Guest:Again, by the way, these things are just out there forever.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I mean, it's like Hansel and Gretel, but instead of breadcrumbs, it's just animal carcasses.
Guest:Just follow the trail.
Guest:In which she said, Mr. Kennedy chainsawed the head off a dead whale on a beach in Hyannisport, Massachusetts, bungee corded it to the roof of their vehicle and drove it five hours to the family home in Mount Kisco, New York.
Marc:This is the environmentalist, right?
Marc:That's the guy.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:I mean, like, but also, like, I guess that's why you would drive it back to Mount Kisco.
Guest:You're like, I can't leave it on the side of the road.
Guest:I'm the environmentalist.
Marc:You know, you know, my wife actually met Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She met him in Hawaii when she was living out there.
Marc:And like.
Guest:What was he slaughtering stingrays and.
Marc:Just clubbing sea turtles to death.
Ha ha ha!
Marc:But apparently like she caught his eye and he said hello to her and everything.
Marc:Where?
Guest:Like what?
Guest:On the beach?
Marc:Like she was at some event, like some work event.
Marc:And he was the guest speaker.
Marc:And he was like, oh, hi, I'm Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:In his divorce proceedings, like it was revealed that he had something like 47 affairs.
Guest:So Aaron got off easy, I think, in that situation.
Guest:Yes, he was my brother's graduation speaker.
Guest:Oh, no kidding.
Guest:He sounded no better than he sounds now, by the way.
Guest:So we had to hear that for an hour.
Marc:I was asking my wife, like, did he have the voice back then?
Marc:She's like, no, I don't remember the voice.
Marc:So, yeah.
Guest:He had that voice when he was on the radio with Air America.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I remember being like, what?
Guest:I guess that's what happens when you're a Kennedy.
Guest:You can get hired for a radio job with quite literally the worst radio voice in the history of like the robot that Stephen Hawking used to speak with is better than listening to this guy on the radio.
Marc:And they put them out there every week.
Guest:I always thought when I went to my brother's college graduation and this guy spoke, I always said, this is the worst possible graduation speaker I've ever heard.
Guest:And it wasn't even out of like animus.
Guest:It was just a bad, like it was like this boring hour long speech that had nothing to do with like students graduating.
Guest:It was just him on his environmental high horse, which is like, that's fine.
Guest:But like.
Guest:Not for this occasion.
Guest:People were, like, getting up.
Guest:It was hot.
Guest:Everyone's, like, no one's paying attention.
Guest:My brother still talks about it to this day, how he hates it.
Guest:And I was always like, man, what a bummer.
Guest:Like, people get fun graduation speakers.
Guest:You get, like, Seth Meyers or somebody do a comedy routine.
Guest:This guy got my brother.
Guest:He got RFK Jr.
Guest:What a lousy beat that was.
Guest:Guess who my graduation speaker was?
Guest:Who?
Guest:Bill Cosby.
LAUGHTER
Marc:You guys are cursed.
Guest:Don't graduate in the McDonald household.
Guest:That's the lesson.
Guest:Just go dig ditches.
Marc:Poor Owen is going to get like, I don't know.
Guest:Logan Paul, I'm sure, will be Owen's graduation speaker by that point.
Marc:What is with RFK Jr.
Marc:and just being a serial animal killer?
Guest:Well, I can't pretend like you're going to say this to me for the first time because my reaction won't be genuine.
Guest:But I should let people know that I sent this story to you.
Guest:And your first reaction, it was very quick.
Guest:So I would say like, it wasn't a matter of you had time to think about this and you chewed it over and then you landed on the best possible response.
Guest:You in the moment said, this guy is like a serial killer of animals.
Guest:Beat, beat, animal lector.
Guest:And I thought that was just quite the success.
Guest:Like you really, you pulled one out there, buddy.
Marc:How is that not the headline?
Guest:That New York Post, man, it's such a disappointment that they're in the tank for Trump because it's like that would be the best possible New York Post headline, animal electorate.
Guest:100%.
Guest:Ay-yi-yi.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, I did not yet go and make an AI song that added the whale carcass to it, but maybe sometime in the future.
Guest:But we have a lot to get in today, and so I don't want to take too much time.
Guest:In fact, I do want to say before we get into what we're going to do for the brunt of this episode that you may have heard if you listen to Tuesday's bonus material that we are soliciting for Ask Mark Anything Questions.
Guest:And it's only from you guys, only from Full Marin listeners.
Guest:So if you have something you want to ask Mark, the link is there in the episode description.
Guest:It's separate from the normal link that we have.
Guest:You can see it right there.
Guest:It says click here to ask Mark anything.
Guest:Just click it.
Guest:Send Mark your question.
Guest:We will bank those for...
Guest:We'll be right back.
Guest:And the other thing that we wanted to do, which is basically going to take up most of this episode, is go back to our Quentin Tarantino series, which we've been doing every month.
Guest:If you haven't been listening, we started right from the beginning, watched all of Quentin Tarantino's movies in order, and we are up to movie number seven.
Guest:He has made nine, so we're almost at the finish line here.
Guest:But we got up to movie number seven this month, which is Django Unchained.
Guest:And let's go to our lists that we made in the first place, Chris.
Guest:Where does this stand on your list?
Guest:Because on mine, I started out with it in a spot and it has since been moved.
Guest:So I'm wondering where you were when we started and where you are as of the last movie we watched.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So, yeah, the movie has actually been at number five this entire time.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:So things have kind of bounced around.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, interesting.
Guest:Because I had it in my mind.
Guest:I've already had this sense that this movie was great.
Guest:And I had only seen it in the theater once.
Guest:And then I actually don't think I've ever seen it in full start to finish again, although I feel like I've seen so much of it.
Guest:Like it was, it was at a period of time where it was definitely like, I, you know, nowadays you don't really put on the TV and flip around cable, but like at a period of time where I had like a shitload of the premium movie channels and there was still no real streaming, this would be on cable a lot, like on stars or, or HBO or whatever it was.
Guest:And I feel like I would dip in all the time and it was always satisfying.
Guest:Like when I would dip in, but, but this was the first time I watched it all the way through the
Guest:From beginning to end since seeing it in the theater.
Guest:And yet, like I said, when we started this project, I already had it in my head that this was a great one.
Guest:And I had put it at number three.
Guest:And then if you remember, I jumped...
Guest:Reservoir Dogs over this and Jackie Brown and said it's going to be up to those movies to prove that they belong back in the spots that they were in.
Guest:And I did not move Jackie Brown back up.
Guest:I kept it down.
Guest:And in fact, you know, it's now below Inglorious Bastards for me.
Guest:So, you know, I'll read off my list and then why don't you read off yours?
Guest:I will go from the top down.
Guest:Pulp Fiction, number two, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, number three, Reservoir Dogs, and now number four, Django Unchained, and number five, Inglourious Bastards.
Guest:So that's how things have moved for me.
Guest:Jackie Brown is number six.
Guest:Kill Bill.
Guest:I move that up a notch.
Guest:It's at number seven.
Guest:Hateful Eight is at number eight, although I gosh, that's like second to worst movie.
Guest:That's crazy because I really do enjoy that movie.
Guest:So we'll see if that gets moved up next month when I watch it.
Guest:And then nine is Death Proof.
Guest:So what's your list standing at right now?
Marc:Number one is Pulp Fiction.
Marc:Number two, Inglourious Bastards.
Marc:That moved up quite a bit from number four.
Marc:Then Once Upon a Time in Hollywood at number three.
Marc:Number four is Jackie Brown.
Marc:Number five, Django Unchained.
Marc:Number six, Kill Bill.
Marc:Number seven, Reservoir Dogs, which dropped a lot for me.
Marc:Number eight, Hateful Eight.
Marc:And nine, Death Proof.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, so that's where we were at.
Guest:And so were you saying that it was the same for you, that this was the first time you were watching it since you had seen it in the theaters?
Marc:Not only that, I did not have premium cable.
Marc:And I, this is my first time ever re-watching it.
Marc:I didn't.
Guest:Have you seen any of it though?
Guest:Like, like, I mean, I feel like there's, it's like so many, so much of it has become like meme worthy.
Guest:And like, there are little video clips that get put out there in the world from it.
Marc:Not as much as you think.
Marc:Like I know the, you know, Ooh, you had my attention, but now, you know, you have my curiosity.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, like that.
Marc:But I, I, this movie, when I was watching it, a rewatch, I was like, I don't remember any of this.
Marc:Like, I don't remember.
Marc:That's funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, I was, it was funny.
Guest:Like there was definite stuff in it where I haven't seen it since the minute I watched it in 2012 or early 2013, whenever it was that I actually got to the theater to see it.
Guest:And you know, so it's like over a decade ago and I remember like I'm watching it again for the first, like a certain scene.
Guest:And I'm like, Oh, I remember exactly what happens here.
Guest:Like there was just so much of it that was so vivid and
Guest:From the way it was made, that like the recall of things that I haven't seen in a very long time was instant.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:OK.
Guest:Thinking about it in terms of how you felt after you saw Inglourious Bastards, you know, and you had kind of been down on that movie and it changed when you saw it.
Guest:The last time.
Guest:When you saw this in the theater, did you leave with a feeling that it worked?
Guest:That you were up on it?
Marc:I remember really enjoying it.
Marc:Now, this was the first time that I went to one of those movie theaters that you can eat at.
Marc:This was at the Nighthawk in Williamsburg, New York.
Marc:And I think that might have to do with the fact that I don't remember some of it.
Guest:Oh, interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's probably why I don't love those movie theaters where you can just order food and you have like waiters like bouncing around.
Marc:Because like I'm just distracted all the time.
Marc:Like, oh, what's this?
Marc:Is this waiter bringing me food?
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:You know, so like I feel like I didn't absorb it.
Marc:But I remember having a good time.
Marc:I remembered enjoying it.
Marc:But I never revisited it until this rewatch.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, the interesting thing about revisiting it as a watch was also just kind of taking it in after everything that we've been watching, like this now in the order of things that we've been watching them in.
Guest:And boy, oh boy, I'm not going to get into it yet, but that has a lot to do with my reception of it this time and how it feels after having watched very recently all the other movies.
Guest:And the other interesting thing is...
Guest:There's a lot, you know, we, we've talked about how so much of the stuff he makes comes from these like ideas that have a Genesis point.
Guest:And then they, he tries to work on them and then he puts them away and they sit and they gestate.
Guest:And, you know, he waits for four years to make kill bill.
Guest:Cause he's waiting for him a Thurman to be ready.
Guest:Or he felt like inglorious bastards had gotten away from him, had too much going on.
Guest:He put it in his desk.
Guest:Then he, you know, gets Christoph Waltz to play Hans Landa and it kind of ties everything back together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's interesting that this movie did not have any seed of being made prior to Inglorious Bastards.
Guest:In fact, he says he came up with it during the press tour of Inglorious Bastards.
Guest:He was in Japan for the release of it there, you know, doing press, doing interviews.
Guest:And he was spending a lot of time listening to Spaghetti Western soundtracks.
Guest:at record stores in japan in japan they they love spaghetti westerns because it has a real strong tie to samurai movies right and and samurai culture and so he's he's uh you know talking to people there about spaghetti westerns he's really getting spaghetti westerns like ripping through his head and the one that he keeps landing on is this one jango and in particular the guy who made jango sergio carbucci the actual guy from you know once upon a time in hollywood like that
Guest:Rick Dalton goes over there and goes and makes the movies with.
Guest:So he's like starts to get real into these Sergio Carbucci movies again.
Guest:I mean, obviously it's Tarantino.
Guest:He knows all this stuff.
Guest:It's not like it's a new revelation to him.
Guest:But in thinking about them and in listening to these soundtracks and getting himself kind of like jazzed up and this idea of like, what if I actually finally did a Western movie?
Guest:Like he's had all this spaghetti Western influence in so many of his movies.
Guest:What about doing an actual Western?
Guest:And he realizes like what he's digging about this Carbucci stuff, particularly Django, is like it's it's grittier, it's dirtier, it's almost more surreal.
Guest:And it doesn't have like the kind of dusty whimsy of American Westerns.
Guest:Even like, you know, John Ford stuff, right?
Guest:Which Tarantino is not a huge fan of.
Guest:And he realizes, or at least his thesis of it, he doesn't come up with any proof of this.
Guest:But he thinks that this guy, being an Italian, was making movies that were a reaction to fascism, to Italian fascism.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was rooting it in the American West because it was, it's like might as well be science fiction, right?
Guest:It's like an alien landscape and you can make these like awful, terrible villains where there's these lawless places and work out the, the issues you're finding politically back at home.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he thinks to himself, like we have that in America.
Guest:Like we don't,
Guest:look at our sin, our number one sin.
Guest:Like we all, we just disregard the fact that we did this terrible thing.
Guest:And every now and then we like, we pay lip service to it, you know, on account of like history lessons or whatever.
Guest:And he was like, it's history encased in glass, right?
Guest:Like, I don't want that.
Guest:I want to break that.
Guest:And I want us to be like, let's just dive into how fucking awful the sin of slavery was.
Guest:But I'm going to do it the way this guy did it with his movies when he made a Western.
Guest:And it's interesting that, you know, this is obviously this guy's first Western and it's not the West.
Guest:it's the South.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, so it's like, you know, he's taking every, like he's doing a similar thing.
Guest:It's almost like a different country, right?
Guest:It's not like the, you know, Westward expansion.
Guest:It is antebellum Southern America.
Guest:And, but he's, you know, he's got a guy that right up to the very end of the movie, when he's in the last line, you're going to be the fastest draw in the South, right?
Guest:That's what they're going to call you.
Guest:And yeah,
Guest:he puts all the Western tropes in this thing, but obviously they're going to all go through him, through his brain, through his piping.
Guest:And, uh, I, you know, whatever anyone wants to say about the movie, whatever their opinions are of it, whatever their reaction is to it, there is one incontrovertible fact.
Guest:It is Quentin Tarantino's biggest success.
Guest:It was at the time and it still is to this day.
Guest:It becomes its highest grossing film.
Guest:It has not been overtaken.
Guest:It made nearly half a billion dollars.
Guest:And I can't think that that's accidental.
Guest:Like there is something about this movie that actually translates better than the other ones we've talked about.
Guest:Even the ones we think are great.
Guest:Like Pulp Fiction did not make half a billion dollars.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I did not know that.
Guest:Another difference about this movie than the other ones that we've seen is this is his first movie without Sally Menke as his editor.
Guest:She died in 2010 after Inglorious Bastards was made.
Guest:And the editor here, Fred Raskin, was an assistant editor.
Guest:Like he was a guy who had come up through the Tarantino system and was also an assistant editor for Paul Thomas Anderson.
Guest:So it's like it kind of makes sense that he's like in that world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But this is like his first real big movie.
Guest:And it's interesting.
Guest:And this is not to downplay.
Guest:Obviously, I think Sally Menke was is largely responsible for helping Tarantino develop his voice and his his style of direction.
Guest:You know, you can't like divorce a lot of the stuff that we love from those early movies, from how they're paced and how it's cut.
Guest:And I think what this movie shows is that he understood his own style as good as anyone now and could translate that to someone else.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, you know, you see that scene when they go in early in the movie, when they go into the saloon and the cutting of making the beer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And pouring the beer and the scoop in the foam off the top and everything.
Guest:And it's like.
Guest:Yeah, that's Tarantino doing that.
Guest:Like, he's not relying on some more experienced editor to show him, like, hey, you want to get this scene really popping?
Guest:Here's what we're going to do.
Guest:It's like, this is his language now.
Guest:And he's, like, passing it on to someone else who then, this guy Raskin goes on and edits the rest of his movies.
Guest:So, like, he's got a partnership again with another editor, but...
Guest:I feel like this is now a time where you're like, okay, he does this himself, right?
Guest:Just like he was the cinematographer on Death Proof, right?
Marc:I think you're right.
Marc:And I think Sally Menke is actually missed in this movie because I think there are some moments in this movie upon rewatch where I'm like...
Marc:Why is this scene happening here?
Marc:Like the one that comes to mind is the KKK scene or the scene where they all have their masks on.
Marc:Their masks, yeah.
Marc:And so I read the screenplay.
Marc:And I got to say, I think I fucked myself by reading the screenplay because the screenplay is fucking great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then I'm watching the movie and it's not matching up.
Marc:Like, the characters, the character development is missing from the final edit of this movie.
Marc:And that scene in particular, I don't understand why, like, we see them riding and then they're circling the wagon.
Marc:And then we get a...
Marc:cut back to them, like preparing to do all of this.
Marc:And it's a very funny moment with Jonah Hill, you know, with like, oh, the holes, I don't know, I can't see.
Marc:And then, I don't know, it just doesn't, it doesn't flow and it didn't flow.
Marc:You and I are in different bands.
Guest:pages on this then because i'm like this is this is great like this is this this thing of the the kkk scene which it's not the kkk they didn't exist yet but it's we understood as a previous iteration there were groups like this that did this and here it comes they're
Guest:you've got the scene of them swooping in, that piece of classical music strikes up, and you're watching this the way it's almost shot, like it's shot in Birth of a Nation with the guys on Stallions, and then this cut to them prepping this thing and making them into total clown show, total jokes, and it's right in the wheelhouse of farce comedy.
Guest:And you're like...
Guest:Oh, like I can trust that Tarantino doesn't just think like, oh, this is cool to show guys on horseback or this is like we're going to we're going to set these guys up as the major villains of the film, the way the Nazis were in the other one.
Guest:It's like, no, these are hillbilly goose and they're all just going to get totally mowed down by the superheroes.
Guest:right?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Who, who are the guys in charge?
Guest:And like, yeah, I mean, it's to me is one of the like high points of the film is that scene.
Marc:Oh, so I, I mean, I love that scene.
Marc:It's just that on the page, it was constructed better.
Marc:It was more linear.
Marc:And,
Marc:it was them being like fuck-ups, and then you see them smashing into each other with their horses, and it's funny, and it's, you know, they're supposed to be these guys, but they're just literally just, you know, hurting each other, you know?
Guest:So it's... Okay, but you're talking about, like, the one scene in the movie, literally, like, the one scene where it does a time jump.
Guest:Like, this is traditionally...
Guest:his most linear film he he tells a story from stem to stern like there's no uh like the most minor of flashbacks like when they're showing what happened at his other plantations and that but like this section is like the tarantino section like i just seems weird that you're like why would it be out of place like that this is a fucking quentin tarantino movie like he does this in every movie
Marc:Yeah, you're right.
Marc:And I just think it was better on the page than it was on the screen.
Guest:But on the page, you're saying that it doesn't move in and out.
Marc:It doesn't like it's all it's all like they start with them getting together and bitching about the holes and then they go and and swarm it.
Marc:And and yeah, of course, the good guys win.
Guest:But like that, you're losing the joke of the cut on that.
Guest:The cut is the joke, right?
Guest:The cut of seeing them swarm this stagecoach and this dentist thing with the weird spring on the top.
Marc:Which isn't in the script either, that dentist thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I can't speak to I've never even looked at a page of this script, so I can't speak to any of that stuff.
Guest:But it's like the the the idea that like you're watching this thing and it's whipping up into a fringy and then cut to them as like the biggest yokels you've ever met.
Guest:That's that's the joke.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you're right.
Marc:I just think it was better on the page.
Guest:Well, here's what I would say, too.
Guest:I'm going to tip my hand a little bit about this.
Guest:As I mentioned at the beginning, I loved this movie when it came out.
Guest:Watching it this time, I'm like, I underrated it.
Guest:It's better than I even thought.
Guest:It's so great that I was getting upset at myself for not having previously seen its greatness.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I thought it was great.
Guest:It's greater than I had thought it was great, is how I'll put it.
Guest:And it's because it adds on to everything we've already been watching and makes the things we've already liked in the things we've already been watching better.
Guest:It is a better use of Christoph Waltz, who's amazing in this, again.
Guest:He is.
Guest:It is a better use of the genre trappings that he loves to play in, but now actually servicing a real story with real emotions.
Guest:And he gets to those emotional beats, and you don't feel cheaped out, or you don't feel like, why is this woman in love with Bill, or whatever?
Guest:You know, it's like, no.
Guest:Everything in here hits.
Guest:And...
Guest:I just I got to think a lot of it had to do with the muck that he had put on himself in those years where he was playing around with garbage.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it still took a long time up to now, 2024.
Guest:And knowing like what this guy's capable of and watching the progression from month to month as we've been watching to watch this movie and go like, oh, my God, everything here is hitting.
Guest:I can't think of a single thing.
Guest:in this rewatch of watching this movie where I was like, that didn't work.
Guest:It all worked.
Guest:The whole thing worked.
Marc:See, I disagree.
Marc:I think upon rewatch and upon, after reading the screenplay, uh,
Marc:there was so much missing from the character arc that was there that is just completely obliterated for some reason.
Marc:Like there was a whole stretch.
Marc:I mean, a whole stretch.
Marc:There was like maybe 10 pages where, um, Broomhilda, uh, is actually, you know, sold to someone else, a, uh, like a, a guy who wants her for, um, for his son.
Marc:And, um,
Marc:And they're like a couple and they go out to a club and then they meet with Leonardo DiCaprio's character.
Marc:And Leonardo DiCaprio's character swindles the guy for Broomhilda.
Marc:And that was just a lot of character stuff that is just gone.
Guest:That was supposed to be Sacha Baron Cohen in the film and he was cut out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, was it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I thought it would be Jonah Hill because the kid is like a fat kid.
Guest:Well, maybe he was going to play it after they cut with Sacha Baron Cohen or something.
Guest:Maybe that's why Jonah Hill was around.
Guest:But it was definitely Sacha Baron Cohen initially in that scene.
Guest:Gotcha.
Marc:And so that scene is gone.
Marc:There's a great scene in the screenplay of Samuel L. Jackson and Jamie Foxx where Samuel L. Jackson is showing him to his room in the big house and...
Marc:Jamie Foxx punches Samuel L. Jackson, and they have a great scene, and it's just cut for, I guess, time, because it is two hours and 45 minutes, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why is Django outside of this slave cart with the Australians?
Marc:The reason for that is just gone.
Marc:So I don't know.
Marc:I was just feeling like, am I watching the wrong version?
Marc:Is there a director's cut of this movie where all that stuff is put back in?
Guest:I mean, to me, that's unfortunate because it's like you're explaining this stuff and I don't care about any of it.
Guest:Like you're saying stuff and I'm like, yeah, I don't want to.
Guest:I don't ever want to see that.
Guest:I want to see the movie I like.
Guest:I don't like I don't want these things in it.
Guest:I don't care how I read on the page.
Guest:I care about what I saw on the screen.
Guest:And so it's just to me, it's like irrelevant.
Guest:Like, I mean, like we're talking about two different things here.
Guest:You're talking about like, it's like you're reviewing a book and I'm reviewing a film like that.
Guest:That would be what it what it would be like.
Guest:And I can't I just it's like, oh, I'm sorry that happened, but I can't I can't get there with you because I do like you're describing stuff that I'm like, I don't care about that.
Guest:Can I can we talk about the movie I watched?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:There's also the deal with the music.
Marc:The music was great, and then by the time the third act happens, there's almost too much music happening all the time.
Marc:At one point, one song ends, and then another song takes its place right away.
Marc:I almost feel like he was cramming way too much stuff into the soundtrack.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I have it written here.
Guest:The greatest soundtrack he's had so far was what I wrote.
Guest:And I think the moment I wrote that down was when the James Brown Tupac remix started out.
Marc:I love that song.
Guest:I listen to that song.
Guest:But that was, I think, a part where then that ended and another song started.
Guest:And I was like...
Marc:giddy up like keep these coming this is great yeah i guess i i just wasn't on the same uh wavelength with the movie uh as it just it just felt like uh it was it felt sloppy honestly what yeah it felt like sloppy yeah it felt like it wasn't cohesive it felt like just a collage of all
Guest:i could i could totally get not being on its wavelength but i mean i i just think objectively it's his tightest movie that he's made so far of all the ones we've been watching it's the one that's the most it's the most direct a to b to c to d and there's no fat in there it's not like you're like why'd they have this part it's too slack or it takes you off the path it's like everything follows the path that it's on
Marc:No, I disagree.
Marc:I feel like there is tension in his previous movie.
Marc:Suspense, right?
Marc:The suspense in Glorious Bastards of the first scene of why is he talking to this milkman?
Marc:And the bar scene.
Marc:And there's no suspense in the movie when Samuel L. Jackson is figuring out that Brumhilde and Django know each other.
Marc:There's no real suspense there.
Guest:There's no suspense that they could kill these people at any time?
Marc:Of course there's that.
Marc:But I feel like it would have been better done or it was better done in Inglourious Bastards.
Marc:It felt like it wasn't ratcheted up to the same level as it was done previously.
Guest:Well, I don't know, man.
Guest:I can't even get there.
Guest:I can't get there in a cut.
Guest:It's like, you know, Siskel and Ebert have done this before where they're just like, well, you have one thing, I have another, and that's that.
Guest:I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me that it's more tense than it was or less tense than it was.
Guest:If one person feels it and the other doesn't, that's just it.
Guest:That's just the experience.
Guest:It's like saying something's funny or not funny.
Guest:You can't convince the other person.
Guest:So I think we're just going to wind up in different spots
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Marc:We don't have to agree all the time.
Guest:No, but I will say, like, in terms of the other things that, like, I just, you know, stood out to me in watching this again.
Guest:And again, it's virtues of the movie.
Guest:It's reasons why I think it's a better movie than all of the other ones except Pulp Fiction that we have watched so far.
Guest:Is that he finally...
Guest:This is the most like people always tagged Jackie Brown as like, oh, that's his most mature movie, which as we when we watched it, I found that was not true.
Guest:I found that it was it had great older characters and it was very refreshing to see him exploring aging and change and time and the mature there's maturity in the performances.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And in and in the actual story of Jackie Brown, right, this was the first time I felt like he had fully matured to that point in 2012.
Guest:I mean, he's going to make other movies after this.
Guest:But to that point, I found him to be the most mature as a filmmaker, as a person restraining himself when he can understanding like why.
Guest:certain characters don't have to be cool.
Guest:Like the, the greatest thing about the villains in this is they're villains.
Guest:This is, you know, Calvin and Steven are not like Bill.
Guest:They're not Hans Landa.
Guest:These are actual villains and it's a pleasure to watch the performances, but these are not pleasures to hang with as dudes, right?
Guest:Like there's that phrenology scene where he's going over the skull and it's like,
Guest:It's got all the hallmarks of the Tarantino monologue where he wants to show off some bit of knowledge.
Guest:And it is done in service of showing that this guy is a total, not just an evil person and a scumbag, but he is over the moon about a now debunked science.
Guest:Like, he is into something that we now know is total quackery.
Guest:And, like, using that, like, Tarantino, hey, guess, check this out.
Guest:I know all this stuff.
Guest:And yet it's in service of a bad guy telling a wrong thing.
Guest:Like, he's not right.
Guest:Like, I'm like, oh, you're, like, it finally made me feel like he was getting somewhere other than, isn't what I show cool all the time?
Guest:Just to, like, have the violence in this movie.
Guest:It's like, it's not fully a fun time.
Guest:And it shouldn't be like you're showing the horror of slavery in the American South.
Guest:It shouldn't be like a total joy ride the whole time.
Guest:And yet there's plenty where it can be like the Jim Croce song playing in that scene where they're out doing bounty hunting and set to I got a name like that's super fun.
Guest:And it can be fun because it's just Western stuff.
Guest:But like when you're going to show the guy getting killed by dogs, that shouldn't be fun.
Guest:And it's not.
Guest:And I was like, oh, good.
Guest:I'm glad this guy is dead.
Marc:aware of this it's not like i'm gonna make everything here cool yeah yeah i mean you say that he has restraint in this movie and i my first thought is the the dressage at the end of the movie is awesome what no i'm like what the fuck is that that's not earned like what what is and
Guest:We can't talk about it.
Guest:We can't talk about it.
Guest:Literally, I was like clapping in my seat at the end of the movie.
Marc:Putting himself in the movie when, objectively, the movie should have just ended with that very long gunfight.
Marc:That was an extremely horrible,
Marc:Like drawn out gunfight.
Marc:Wouldn't you say like that?
Marc:That was first of all, I don't know.
Marc:They were just bad guys that he was just shooting.
Guest:They're on a plantation, dude.
Marc:It was excessive.
Marc:It was just like, wow, this is taking a very long time to to to the point where he doesn't even succeed.
Marc:Like, the movie should have ended there.
Marc:Shouldn't have had Aussies in there.
Marc:Like, that was a very strange scene.
Marc:Michael Parks again.
Marc:Although this time, I actually thought he was great.
Marc:Yeah, he's great in that scene.
Guest:There is a story behind why these guys are Australian all of a sudden.
Guest:Was that he had cast the actor Anthony LaPaglia, you know, who is Australian.
Guest:And he was...
Guest:He wanted like just like you had King Schultz, who's German.
Guest:He wanted to show like, you know, once he cast this guy was after the you know, after the fact, he decided, well, we can have you keep your Australian accent because we'll show that like there were.
Guest:people in a kind of mercenary way from all over the world, taking advantage of this newish country and going and, you know, applying their trade or figuring out how they could, you know, make money, even if it involved, you know, having slaves dig your minds for you.
Guest:And so he was he had already established having this gang that was partially made up of Australians.
Guest:With one other Australian actor in there and then Michael Parks.
Guest:And for what I like, I think this movie kept having delays and reshoots and stuff because people were dropping out.
Guest:I think at one point, Kevin Costner was one of the was the Walton Goggins part.
Guest:And yeah, and he had to drop out.
Guest:So they rewrote some stuff, moved some stuff away from that character, moved it to the lawyer, things like that.
Guest:And LaPaglia had to drop out of the role.
Guest:And so Tarantino just took it.
Guest:And then because he's a weirdo, kept the Australian accent.
Marc:For very little reason.
Marc:I mean, again, and I hate to talk about the screenplay, but in the screenplay, like Django makes a great point.
Marc:He's like, oh, you're like, why are you here in America?
Marc:He's like, oh, I'm working here because I'm paying the guy who paid for my boat trip.
Marc:He's like, oh man, you're a slave.
Marc:You're just like me, except someone paid for your boat ride.
Guest:But Chris, okay, so I want to pause you here for a sec.
Guest:Don't you think we haven't watched it again yet, but we've seen it enough times so that we can, we can talk about it this way.
Guest:Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is a great film, possibly greater than great.
Guest:And we've loved it.
Guest:We've seen it many times.
Guest:Then several years after it came out, he released that book about it.
Guest:We both have read it.
Guest:It's very enjoyable.
Guest:It has so much stuff that's not in the film.
Guest:If you had read that first, don't you think you'd be like you judge the movie differently?
Yeah.
Marc:No, I don't think.
Marc:Impossible.
Guest:Impossible.
Marc:A, I've seen Django Unchained before.
Marc:So it's not like I'm.
Guest:But you told me you didn't even remember most of it.
Marc:That's true.
Guest:You're watching the waiters bringing your food and you're drinking your seventh old fashioned.
Marc:But I did watch it.
Marc:I'm just saying with more context, I'm like, oh, yeah, this this is missing a whole chunk of stuff that I wish I'd had.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I just think I think you're I think you put yourself in a hole with this one.
Marc:Yeah, I think you're right as well.
Marc:Honestly, I think again, I started this off as saying I think I fucked myself and I think I did because I can't unring the bell of reading the screenplay and seeing in picturing what is in my mind and then seeing what the final product was.
Marc:I just I felt underwhelmed.
Guest:See, and that's like, you know, you talked about that gunfight and you were saying you thought it was too long.
Guest:It was like when that gunfight happened, I was like, OK, finally, like this is the first time the thing you can compare that gunfight to the most is the fight against the crazy 88s in Kill Bill.
Yeah.
Guest:Right down to the fact that at the end of the gunfight, he does a crane shot that pulls all the way up and you see everybody dead on the floor, just like in Kill Bill.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:It was it clicked to me while I was watching it this time that it's like, you see, this is why it's totally OK that he is doing a Western pastiche in a story about American slavery.
Guest:And it's what rings.
Guest:I'm not going to say rings false in Kill Bill, but it rings differently.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That in Kill Bill, it rings.
Guest:it feels like it's an indulgence, right?
Guest:It's like, I've always loved Kung Fu movies.
Guest:I'm going to stage the greatest Kung Fu scene.
Guest:And we even talked about it that way.
Guest:When we talked about it, we were like, this, this was a guy who loved Kung Fu.
Guest:And he was like, I'm at the height of my powers.
Guest:I'm going to do Kung Fu.
Guest:And it's going to look like this.
Guest:This is he took all the knowledge and all the ways that he has integrated Western filmmaking into his soul, into his being.
Guest:And he's like, I'm going to do a gunfight right now that represents the fight for freedom of this guy who was who is basically my symbol of life.
Guest:like aggression against american slavery my superhero of this movie my what's the what's the mythical character they talk about siegfried like this is i am doing the myth through this guy and he is going to fight off slavery to by the end of this movie blowing up the entirety of a plantation and i will use the
Guest:The trappings of the genre to push that forward, to push that through.
Guest:It's in this context that we will understand this as part of the story.
Guest:It's not just a separate indulgence where I have this blonde woman that I've decided is my Kung Fu hero.
Guest:It fully made representational sense for the story he was telling.
Guest:And that's, again, why I say like it felt like he matured.
Marc:That's an excellent argument.
Marc:I think the scene in Kill Bill was indulgent, and I think it was perfectly there.
Marc:Oh, absolutely.
Guest:I don't want to make it seem like I'm knocking Kill Bill.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like we both talked about it.
Guest:That scene in Kill Bill is the reason for the movie.
Guest:It makes the movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's like watching it here.
Guest:I felt like it was the it was it wasn't exactly the opposite.
Guest:But you didn't need this scene to make the movie.
Guest:The movie made this scene.
Guest:The movie is the movie in its entirety as a point is like, well, yeah, you can have a scene then where this superhero can kill all the bad guys if he wants and decides not to because he feels there is a way around that he can still use his superheroics to get to the ultimate goal, which is freeing his wife.
Guest:And and he does not he does not end on this note.
Guest:That's another reason why I don't think the movie can end here.
Guest:And you need that extra 25, 30 minutes, whatever it is, for him to get captured, escape again, and then come back and kill Steven and blow up the plantation like that is still that that is the part of the myth that has been unfulfilled at that point.
Marc:I feel like it was redundant to have him come back.
Marc:But I see your point.
Marc:It's a great point.
Marc:I just disagree.
Guest:Well, I also think the other maturity here is that, and it's going to help him out again in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, is...
Guest:What he started in earlier films with Reservoir Dogs and to an extent, and definitely in Pulp Fiction with Jules and Vincent, that he in this one delivers a truly great friendship.
Guest:And he, again, going back to something I was saying earlier, he doesn't miss on the emotions.
Guest:Just because he's got this dialogue that's great with especially having Christoph Waltz deliver this stuff, he's able to make it so that you fully believe that these guys become friends.
Guest:They love each other.
Guest:That scene hits very hard when he touches the dead body of King Schultz and says Auf Wiedersehen.
Guest:And
Guest:And he nails all the emotions with, with Brumhilda and Django.
Guest:Like you feel that they love each other.
Guest:That's not like just a thing you've been told.
Guest:And like, right from the get go, like, Hey there, little troublemaker.
Guest:And she faints.
Guest:Like, I'm like, I'm sold.
Guest:And he hasn't always shown the ability to do that in the other movies.
Guest:Uh,
Guest:You know, I do.
Guest:I feel like Robert Forster's character truly loved Jackie Brown.
Guest:Yes, I do.
Guest:Like, but again, is that mostly because of the performance?
Guest:It's mostly silent expression of love in that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And here it's like, I think he squared the circle on human relationships in a way that he hadn't before.
Guest:And it's going to pay off even better to movies from now.
Guest:Also, we're going around talking about a lot of story structure and stuff, but there's still also plenty of funny shit in this movie.
Guest:He's still operating at a very high level of comedy, of dialogue, the stuff about... Are you sure that's him?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:Are you positive?
Guest:What's that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know what positive means.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then when he finally kills the guy, I'm positive he did.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just great.
Marc:Also, I'm not riding a horse with some dynamite.
Guest:Just great.
Guest:The line that I actually laughed out loud at was, all you black folks, I suggest you get away from all these white folks.
Guest:Well, I will say something, and I'm going to do something a little controversial when we re-rank these movies.
Guest:That...
Guest:I think after watching these two things back to back, Drango and Inglorious Bastards, I feel we've been watching mostly child's play before that for good and ill.
Guest:Like even the exceptionally great stuff.
Guest:Feels like it was from a younger person.
Guest:And it was that thing.
Guest:If you remember, it was what was nagging at me when we watched Pulp Fiction was I had this question as much as we sat there in that theater and enjoyed it.
Guest:I had this question of like...
Guest:Is there a soul to this beyond just it being a playground for movies, for doing all the fun stuff that he had always wanted to do in a movie, which is what like Pulp Fiction really feels like.
Guest:And I was really wondering, like, where is the heart of this?
Guest:I get the whole Jules redemption arc and I get all that.
Guest:But I was wondering, can this guy go further than that?
Guest:And these last two movies show that he definitely can.
Guest:And unfortunately, I think it was just gummed up by what came before that.
Guest:There was this stretch of time where he was in the gutter and playing around with stuff that made him seem unserious.
Guest:And it messed with, I'll just speak for myself here.
Guest:It messed with perception.
Guest:Like, I think my perception of this guy was not clear enough.
Guest:in the moment of seeing these last two movies like when i saw them at the time even though i like this movie when i saw it i i think i'm doing to this movie now what i did to inglorious bastards last month where it kind of elevated them both in my in my mind as to my regard for them but this one i'm just elevating it higher than i already regarded it
Guest:And I just, I think it's, I, it, it definitely is, um, making me take another look at the idea of whether or not this guy, like, which I think many people think is like, oh, he made his best movie, you know, the second one out of the shoot.
Guest:And I'm like, I, I think, even though I still think Pulp Fiction is better than these as a more satisfying experience, I think he got better.
Guest:Like he, he is showing, um,
Guest:More skill, more ability to keep himself from his baser impulses.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, Kill Bill 2 came out 2004, right?
Marc:This movie came out in 2012.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's such a long time to between these two.
Marc:I mean, Inglourious Bastards 2009.
Marc:By the way, what a gap.
Marc:That's what is that three year gap between Django and Inglourious Bastards?
Guest:Well, I guess it's interesting because he had to really develop this from scratch.
Guest:It's not it was not an existing thing.
Guest:So three years seems about right.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, if you're writing and directing and, you know, even co-starring and for sure.
Marc:So, yeah, there is the passage of time between 2004 and, you know, in 2012 where that reputation is sort of eroded.
Marc:And you're right.
Marc:Like, there is the perception that, like, I don't know.
Marc:I think this guy might be...
Marc:like on the wrong track, you know, for lack of a better term, you know?
Marc:And yeah, looking back now, watching these movies, you know, every month, you can definitely see a more sophisticated filmmaker, for sure.
Guest:Well, I also think we haven't talked about him enough, and I do think this guy just did wonders in really kind of...
Guest:focusing Tarantino on like what he was best at.
Guest:And it's Christoph Waltz.
Guest:Like to have him in these last two movies and to really, to be the conduit that he is.
Guest:And you know what I really love about this one?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:it reminded me of Terminator two in that in the actual way it's devised, you're not really supposed to know whether this is a good guy or bad guy.
Guest:And in fact, your brain should be telling you he's the bad guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You saw him in the previous movie where he was just like this, much like Arnold walking around in the leather and the sunglasses.
Guest:You're like, Oh, I know this, this is the bad guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And,
Guest:he's even a little sinister when he goes up to Django when he's talking to him quietly and it's not until he kills the two slavers and does his whole thing about you're free now that you realize he's the good guy obviously like I'm saying realize we already knew we knew the marketing going in but let's pretend you know nothing of this movie and you just watched Inglourious Bastards you'd be very well expected to think oh here's this guy again playing another bad guy and
Guest:And what's really remarkable is not only is he not a bad guy, he is probably the most moral person in the history of Quentin Tarantino movies.
Marc:I have to think about that.
Guest:Can you think of a more morally grounded person with a more, like, righteous code than this guy?
Guest:I mean, like, I don't think there's one.
Marc:Uma Thurman's bride, you know?
Guest:No, she's a terrible killer who only comes around once she's trying to go for revenge.
Guest:But, like, she's an assassin.
Marc:Brad Pitt's Nazi hunter.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, no, no, definitely not.
Marc:No, you're right.
Marc:You're right.
Marc:And I will say it was very affecting when at that last scene with the white cake in hand with Leonardo DiCaprio and Christoph Waltz is sitting there slumped over, remembering that a dog just tore a man to pieces, that it was that...
Marc:he was like, I need to kill this guy.
Guest:Yeah, right, right, exactly.
Guest:Like he can't live with him, literally live with himself.
Guest:Like he knows he's gonna die by doing this.
Guest:And he's like, I can't live with myself if I don't kill this guy.
Marc:And ruin the whole plan, the whole Mission Impossible plan.
Marc:He's like, I just can't shake this guy's hand.
Marc:It would be, my entire being would be wrong.
Marc:It would be like me shaking Donald Trump's hand.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To the point where King Schultz has to say to him, like, what are you doing?
Guest:And he's like, I'm in character.
Guest:You know, like, you told me that I had to do this, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, like, yes, it's not like this, like, tightly wound ball of tension, like in that farmhouse scene or in the pub scene in Bastards.
Guest:But it is...
Guest:Heist movie quality, like questionable tactics.
Guest:And is this going to lead to them being caught or found out?
Guest:And, you know, I just think if you give the guy credit for those earlier ones, you got to give him credit for this, where he's doing the same thing, but in a different style.
Guest:It's just like the fact that it's not the same style shouldn't be a demerit.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:This is a spaghetti Western style.
Marc:And I've seen my share of John Wayne movies.
Marc:I don't believe I've seen any Italian spaghetti Westerns myself.
Marc:So maybe I just, I'm not versed in that, in that genre.
Guest:I was also very careful to watch the DiCaprio hand bleeding scene this time.
Guest:And, you know, it's like I still can't figure out exactly how he cut it because I was always in my mind's eye.
Guest:It was that he slammed his hand with the glass in his hand and.
Guest:And that the glass broke in his hand and that's why he started bleeding.
Guest:But when you watch it again, he he seems like he slams his hand on on just the flat table.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like I was like, how small is this glass that he just clobbered?
Guest:Like, what did he what did he actually cut him?
Guest:I mean, he clearly cut himself because he's instantly bleeding a lot.
Marc:Yes, I definitely leaned forward when that happened.
Marc:And he just kept on going, right?
Marc:Leo just kept on doing the take?
Guest:Well, yes, he kept on going in that one shot, right?
Guest:So you're seeing him, he slams his hand, and he's cursing him out, and he tells them, like, this guy will shoot you, whatever.
Guest:And then they bring Broomhilda in.
Guest:Now, that's different, right?
Marc:Oh, okay, good.
Guest:But they use the happy accident of.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's different because it's a totally different camera setup.
Guest:You know, you're seeing the shot from low down at the table.
Guest:Like, obviously, they had to do something and they didn't let DiCaprio just stand there and bleed out while they reset all the lights and everything.
Guest:So what's the insurance on that?
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So he is clearly like now has fake blood on his hand and he's smearing it.
Guest:Now he's using it to his advantage to be a villain and smear it on her face and all that stuff.
Guest:But it's very like, there's no avoiding it.
Guest:Like you notice it right away.
Guest:Like, holy shit, this guy all of a sudden had a regular hand and now it's a blood covered hand.
Marc:Just immediately.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That was great.
Marc:The first time that Django and Christoph Waltz, you know, they shoot the sheriff.
Marc:Or Christoph Waltz shoots the sheriff.
Marc:That, to me...
Marc:is like, oh shit, we're like, let's go.
Marc:This is great.
Marc:This is like a fun time where, you know, like Christoph Waltz gets to do his thing.
Marc:And I found that to be like the peak of the movie for me.
Marc:Like I love that.
Guest:I mean, that whole segment from the minute he picks up Django till when they go to the Big Daddy's plantation is like, I could go back and watch it as soon as we get off of this right now.
Guest:Just like if I'm like, oh, do I have 25 minutes to kill?
Guest:I want to watch that whole front section.
Guest:And it's all Christoph Waltz.
Guest:It's all like his joy of the language, you know?
Marc:For sure.
Marc:But I mean, who is the guy from Miami Vice who plays Big Daddy?
Guest:Oh, Don.
Guest:Oh, when you get to the Don Johnson part.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But I'm saying like before the Big Daddy sequence, just just Christoph Waltz explaining the basically explaining the plot of the movie.
Guest:I'm like, I can I'll put this on as a podcast and just listen to it while I go to sleep, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, well, I mean, there's two times he does that.
Marc:He does that in the tavern or bar, saloon, I should say.
Marc:But he also does it with describing the Broomhilde, you know.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So that scene, him describing this Brumhilde and Siegfried story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It is one guy sitting around.
Guest:I don't remember if they have a fire going, but it might as well be a fire.
Guest:They're like, okay, we watched an identical scene.
Guest:shot for shot in in kill bill and it sucked yep and this scene is awesome and it's no different it's one guy telling a story now the stories telling is better and the guy telling it is better and that's all it is it's like it validated everything i was saying after kill bill where i was like this guy kind of sucks like bill as a character it's
Guest:sucks and Cara Dean's not very good and he didn't write him very good material.
Guest:And I don't know why, but it's just not elevating to the level.
Guest:And then here's this scene in this movie almost counts as a do-over.
Marc:Yes, totally, totally a do-over.
Marc:And I remember thinking at the time, well, why didn't they just show us this story instead of telling us?
Marc:And here in this movie, in this scene, he is doing the exact same thing, telling us instead of showing us.
Marc:And it works beautifully.
Guest:I would like to hear more stories, please.
Guest:Please have this guy in this accent.
Guest:Tell me with his exact diction and precision.
Guest:Tell me like Goldilocks and the three bears, please.
Marc:I mean, it's basically like, Oh, I got better friends.
Marc:I mean, no, I'm serious as someone who had terrible friends.
Marc:Like,
Marc:garbage Staten Island friends to now where I have you as a friend.
Marc:I'm pretty sure I've upgraded.
Guest:Well, you notice there's no Eli Roth in this movie.
Marc:Yes, he died on his way to his spaceship.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Yeah, Robert Rodriguez didn't sniff this set.
Yes.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Well, I mean, although I guess we both take a lot of joys from this movie, it definitely sounds like I enjoy it a lot more than you.
Guest:And so I'm assuming that will be reflected in the rankings here.
Guest:And so what are your rankings of of Tarantino films now?
Marc:Okay, so I, look, I know I put Reservoir Dogs pretty low on that list.
Marc:I think I currently have Kill Bill above it.
Marc:Now, am I allowed to move Reservoir Dogs up?
Guest:I will just go out and say I thought you rated Reservoir Dogs too low when we did it.
Guest:I thought you would live to regret it.
Guest:And yeah, it makes sense.
Marc:I think you should move it up.
Marc:Okay, thank you.
Marc:So, with that in mind, my rankings now, Pulp Fiction 1, Inglorious Bastards 2, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 3, Jackie Brown 4, Reservoir Dogs 5, Django Unchained 6, Kill Bill 7, Hateful Eight 8, and Death Proof 9.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So you went back and you rethought Reservoir Dogs and bumped it up two places.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Which it took the place of this one.
Guest:So that's kind of your reasoning.
Guest:It's like you're almost like, I'm realizing I like this one better than Kill Bill, but not as much as Reservoir Dogs.
Guest:So you want to elevate Reservoir Dogs.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Gotcha.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I am also going to adjust and make an adjustment to a past...
Guest:And what's your reasoning?
Guest:The reasoning is I said from the start that I was going to bump Reservoir Dogs over Django and Jackie Brown and they had to catch up with it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that did not happen with Jackie Brown, which remains below Reservoir Dogs on my list.
Guest:It did happen with this.
Guest:So I go back to my original standpoint with Django Unchained from the moment we started this list.
Guest:I put it back to three.
Guest:It did what I said it needed to do.
Guest:It justified itself, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it is now back to three.
Guest:But...
Guest:On the strength of that, it has carried Inglourious Bastards up with it.
Guest:So whereas when we were at the end of our discussion last time, I had bumped Inglourious Bastards up.
Guest:We have now a month later, I am sitting there thinking of it and I'm thinking of it linked to this movie.
Guest:And I'm like, these are a couplet, right?
Guest:Like he has done, like, just like I had kind of always associated Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs in my head together.
Guest:It's like these two movies are together now.
Guest:And as much as I enjoyed this Django Unchained,
Guest:this time and like i said i enjoyed it more this time than than the first time it has made me like inglorious bastards even more than i did a month ago and so i pull that up to number four now so so my list go and that that bumps reservoir dogs down two spots
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And so now it is in the same spot as yours.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And we end my list at the end of movie seven with Pulp Fiction at number one, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood at number two, Django Unchained at three, Inglorious Bastards four, Reservoir Dogs five, Jackie Brown six, Kill Bill seven, Hateful Eight eight, and Death Proof at nine.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:How about that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That is pretty good.
Marc:So for Hateful Eight, our next movie.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Now we have to, there are two versions of this movie, right?
Marc:I think there's multiple versions, but there are two.
Marc:There's more than two?
Guest:Yes, because there is the roadshow version, which played in theaters, but you had to go to specific sites that were showing it in 70mm.
Marc:That's the same thing with Kill Bill, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Then there is the Netflix version, which is the roadshow version plus.
Guest:Like he added stuff to the roadshow version and, and made it much longer and is cut across four parts.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I think each part is about 40 to 50 minutes long.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now here's what I will say.
Guest:That is the only version of the hateful eight that I have seen.
Guest:So I would like to watch what went into regular movie theaters when that movie came out.
Guest:That's the version I think we should watch.
Marc:Agreed.
Marc:And I think I think I'm going to skip this screenplay for this one because I don't know.
Marc:I'm now skittish of reading the screenplay.
Marc:Maybe I'll do it afterwards.
Marc:I'm going to be watching this movie for the first time.
Marc:The Hateful Eight, the theatrical version.
Guest:So you're the same way?
Guest:You only saw the non-theatrical Netflix version?
Marc:I only saw the Netflix version.
Marc:I don't know how or why I missed it, but I did.
Guest:But I will say this, I'm very interested in that when we started this out, as I mentioned, my rankings at the beginning of this, I ranked the Hateful Eight at number six.
Guest:And right now it's sitting at number eight on my list.
Guest:And it's at number eight because...
Guest:kill bill and inglorious bastards jumped.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it didn't like nothing about my opinion of the hateful hate change.
Guest:I'm in my memory.
Guest:I'm like, I like that.
Guest:And I had it ranked as number six when we started.
Guest:So I'm interested to know what it's going to do.
Guest:Like, yeah.
Guest:you know, poor Kill Bill might have suffered the same fate it had suffered in my memory prior to even starting this.
Guest:It just gets diminished as time goes on.
Guest:But we'll see.
Guest:We'll see if my reaction is different watching it in one fell swoop as a two and a half hour movie.
Guest:It does seem like that might be a knock against it.
Guest:Like, I
Guest:I'm remembering it.
Guest:I'm remembering the enjoyment I had watching it over the course of like four nights when it was on this as the Netflix Eightful Eight.
Guest:It maybe is a tough sit in one fell swoop.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:We just watched two hours and 45 minutes of Django.
Marc:Like, I mean, what's.
Guest:Yeah, but the difference is Django is like an epic, right?
Guest:It's like traveling the world to create, to conquer a quest.
Guest:This is a chamber piece.
Guest:It's in one location.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it's like Glengarry and Ross, right?
Marc:Well, 90 minutes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I'm excited.
Marc:It's going to be hard for me not to watch the Netflix version right after watching the theatrical, but I'm going to do my best.
Guest:It won't be that hard for me because I guarantee I do not have seven hours to devote to the hateful eight.
Marc:You say that now.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Hey, anything else you wanted to get in before we close up shop?
Marc:I mean, I could talk about all the episodes that I missed in the time between now and the last time we talked.
Marc:Well, I will.
Guest:So then why don't we do this?
Guest:Why don't we save that?
Guest:And you will also not be here next week because you're going to be in India.
Guest:And I think when you return, I want you to deliver for us your like best of the last several weeks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Give me hit us with your best shots.
Guest:What has what in the WTF universe has Chris been taking in and elsewhere?
Guest:And, you know, hear about what you listen to and watched on your flight and everything.
Guest:And we will we will get your your your recommendations and we'll talk about WTF.
Guest:Sounds good.
Guest:All right.
Guest:And if you want us to talk about anything, you can fill it out there in the comment pages.
Guest:Click on the link that's in the episode description.
Guest:And there is also a link for ask Mark anything there.
Guest:You know, it is an exclusive thing for you full Marin listeners to get to ask Mark questions and then he will answer them on upcoming bonus episodes.
Guest:So click on that link as well.
Guest:Send Mark a question, whatever you're thinking of, he will get to it.
Guest:And until we do that, I am Brendan and that's Chris.
Guest:Peace.