BONUS Lorne Stories: A WTF Special Presentation
Okay, folks, how you doing?
It's me, Mark Maron.
As you know, if you listen to me, I've had a mild obsession with the meeting I had with Lorne Michaels years ago, back in 95.
It's been a running theme throughout my podcast, WTF.
I've spoken to many current and past members of Saturday Night Live, and
about Lorne Michaels and all of them have had a Lorne Michaels story to share.
Now this has been going on since the beginning of the podcast.
This has been going on since like 2009 or so.
So this show, this special show that we put together here is basically a companion episode to go along with our interview of Lorne Michaels on episode 653 of WTF.
And this is a sort of collection of
a curated collection of current and former SNL members that have been on WTF, you know, over the years, and their Lauren stories.
There was a lot of demand for this, actually, because we were doing a few of the Lauren stories leading up to the...
to the Lorne Michaels interview I did for episode 653, and people liked them, and several people were like, can you put them all together?
Well, this is a good bunch of them right here.
These are some of the best ones, and we'll start now with Jimmy Fallon from episode 186.
So I go, I meet Lorne on Paramount Lot, and I wait in the waiting room for three hours.
What was he doing out there?
He has an office in the Paramount lot.
Oh, really?
That's where he does, like, Wayne's World.
Oh, yeah.
Like, a couple movies for Paramount.
Tommy Boy, I think, all Paramount.
Mean Girls does Paramount, too.
So he has an office in Paramount lot, which is a really cool studio lot.
I think it was my first audition ever when I was out in L.A., which, you know, they all suck.
Yeah.
But I'll never forget walking on it going, like, this is pretty cool.
It's like...
They were shooting a great bunch movie.
It's just amazing.
It's like the real thing.
Yeah, you see a Klingon smoking a cigarette and having coffee on the side of the back lot.
It's just fun.
Yeah, I went and interviewed Ray Romano over there.
That's where they do their thing.
He was one of the nicest comedians ever to me.
Ever.
He's a sweet guy in general.
Yeah, he really is.
That was one of those things where you go like, I'm so happy he made it because he was a nice guy.
But anyway, so I go, I meet Lorne, and three hours later I walk in.
Everything's white.
in his office so you're waiting for three hours and you walk in I walk into a white room so clearly I died or something happened so and he's got his feet up on the desk he's chilling he goes Jimmy do you ever wear wigs and at the time my hair was kind of spiked up and I go oh I just do this I do this myself to my hair he goes no I'm just I'm saying for different characters because we want you for the show yeah
and then the rest was like slow motion i was like and i just said like sure do you want me to wear wigs i'm gonna work so hard for you i i'm telling you i won't let you down i'll i will be a good cast choice i'm gonna really work hard yeah and that was my i left there and then i just planned my trip back to new york back to my family back to my friends i mean it was crazy you know wow out in la i really didn't have that you know so it just was one question do you ever wear wigs yeah it's
That was a fun interview I did with Jimmy.
You can get that in the WTF archives.
I talked to him up there at NBC in his office.
And before I talked to Jimmy, before Jimmy was on the show, I spoke to Amy Poehler about Lauren way back on episode 183.
His intuition must be pretty amazing.
I mean, were there moments where he would direct you or make suggestions and it would just completely make you insecure?
Yeah.
Not insecure, but there would be times where, like, I can remember one time we were doing a bit, you know, he was very helpful to me when I started doing Update because I was very nervous because I had never done stand-up.
And I hadn't, I didn't have, I was very, very bad the first couple years of Update when I was doing a teen.
I was all over the place.
I didn't know how to deliver a joke.
I didn't know how to deliver it into a camera.
I just didn't know how to do it.
Because your instincts were more physical?
Yeah, I was just like everything was imprecise and like character-y and I was like just trying to like float on my like hoping my enthusiasm and charm would, you know, cover the fact that I was blowing the punchline every time.
And he he would talk about how, like, you know, you have to kind of create a character in a way on update, even though you say your name, you're kind of like this character.
And so the beginning when I was doing Tina was like the serious one.
And I was like, you know, and and I remember a moment where.
We were like in his office and we're going over a bit and Mick Jagger was going to be on for something.
He's promoting something or maybe they were the musical guests.
And he was pitching an idea about doing something with him.
And it was something about like some idea like that Mick proposed a three way or something.
I forget what it was.
With you and Tina.
Yeah.
And, like, Tina was, like, you know, Tina would be, like, no, and I would be into it.
And I remember thinking, and I was, like, you know that I would never fuck old Mick Jagger.
Like, you know that.
Like, it was a disconnect, a little bit.
You said that to Lauren?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, at the time, I remember, like, oh, this might be kind of personally insulting.
But it was that thing of, like, oh, that's one thing that...
We disconnected.
I was like, oh, I'm not, I, Amy Poehler, I'm not attracted to now Mick Jagger.
Yeah.
Like, the idea of that still, him still being sexy.
Yeah.
It wasn't going to fly.
Yeah.
And what did Lauren say?
He didn't care.
I don't know.
My experience with him was I felt like I could be very honest with him.
And I think he felt like he could depend on me.
And I liked that feeling.
I feel like I think when there were like in that show, when you have those super scary times and if you do it right, you pull it through, then suddenly you get more responsibility and you feel like a like a good soldier.
Yeah.
And I liked that feeling.
What's a super scary time?
live um someone comes up to you and says you know like okay uh this scene's been cut we only have 15 seconds so you need to say this now right and you know or you know i remember like britney spears was the host and suddenly like two minutes three minutes before air she didn't want to do this sketch she just freaked out freaked out yeah and it's like this you're doing it now and you're like okay and you realize you didn't pay attention to it you didn't really listen to it and read through and you're on skis with dan akroyd
And you're pretending to ski down a hill and you're like, hey, and you're just like sweating.
And you're reading cue cards.
Yeah.
And you're reading cue cards of a scene that you didn't even pay attention to it.
It was blocking.
Yeah.
And if you pull that off.
Yeah.
You know, you feel like a million bucks.
Sure.
And.
But Lauren notices.
And Lauren notices.
Yeah.
And then you feel like.
And I loved that.
Like that feeling of.
it's the closest thing you have to feeling like an athlete.
Oh, okay.
Like, it's the closest thing I'll ever feel.
I thought you were going to say, like, that Lauren likes... Oh, but yeah.
But I didn't care... People that cared a lot about his approval never got it.
Right.
Oh, really?
I mean... Yeah, that makes sense.
Sure.
And he can sense it.
There were people that were like, he never told me I did a good job.
And I remember thinking, like, well, I don't... Like, who tells... Yeah, yeah.
Like, I don't know.
I'm over-talking you, but I guess...
No, but that plays into that whole idea that if he's very sensitive to his place in that world, which he is, it's his world, and that there are these daddy issues to resolve, I think that what you're saying is that by being that character, this sort of stern, but not emotionally invested, but very judgmental, that people will strive to seek that approval, but it's never going to come in that way.
It's never going to come.
It's almost like he's teaching you how to parent yourself.
Right.
Yes, that's exactly right.
It was like, don't expect me to tell you what was good and don't expect me to make you feel better when it was bad.
Right.
And we'll be fine.
I mean, he's notorious for not hiring or firing anybody in person.
Like, he doesn't tell you you're hired.
Yeah.
And he doesn't tell you you're fired.
Sure.
Sure.
No, it makes sense.
A lot of people don't like to say you're fired in person.
But it's kind of weird that he doesn't give himself the pleasure of saying you're hired, too.
But you don't get, you know, everything is like sideways.
And you either take it personally or you don't.
Right.
Do you talk to him now?
Yeah.
Oh, you do?
Yeah.
You know, we're friends.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
Like he'll call and like, hello.
He's like, hello.
Hello.
He's like, are you watching Jersey Shore?
I love this season.
I think that Snooki's really made a change.
No.
No, he doesn't.
No, no, no, no.
I wanted that to be true.
No, no.
But, I mean, I still like to talk.
I think he gives good advice.
Yeah.
Long-winded advice, but good advice.
Like he's the kind of guy, if you say, should I move...
You know, should I buy a house?
Yeah.
He's had this crazy life.
I don't know.
I like his advice.
So does he give you advice about Parks and Rec?
Yes.
Oh, yeah?
In terms of your performance in general?
Mm-hmm.
I don't think he really watches it, but, you know.
Like, what did he say?
You know, that kind of thing that, like...
Like Buddha-like people say, which is not really anything, but they end up saying nothing and you're like, yes, that's it.
You know what I mean?
But that thing of like, at the end of the day, it's you.
And that's what you need to remember.
It's you there and you're doing your thing.
And there is where you're supposed to be.
And you're like, yes.
Finally.
And then you walk in like, wait a minute, what the fuck are you talking about?
I think it's just an approval thing in a way.
I think it is.
And also, he's had to, I have to say, having had the experience of up close at SNL, there's so many fires to put out and there's so many personalities and people with real, you know, there's like the neuroses of the host and there's the cast and everybody.
Yeah.
He doesn't always get it right, but the history of personalities that he's had to manage is really, really interesting.
And I think he's really good at getting what he wants.
It's fascinating to watch when someone's like, I'm not going to do that sketch.
He's like, no, I know, you're not.
And when you do it, it will be fine.
Yeah.
And he's like, no, I know, but I'm not going to do it.
And he's like, you're not doing it, nor should you.
But I think when you find yourself doing it, you're going to end up doing it.
It's amazing.
He's incredibly persuasive and getting people to do what he wants.
It's so...
I think his sensitivity to the type of insecurity and insanity that performances are, I mean, especially comedic performers, like for him to sort of reign over that range of personalities that he has, which are performers, and to know how to sort of work them, it's not...
I see how it could be misinterpreted as manipulative or weird or evil in a way, but he knows what he's doing.
I mean, no one has had to deal with such a history of insanity as that guy.
And it is a family.
It feels like it.
Some people don't feel like they ever belonged in it.
Did they stay in it, though?
I mean, I would think that the people that stayed the longest must have felt like they belonged in it.
Yeah, like, you know, when I talk to other people, their experience.
And also, the show has had such different.
Do you guys have reunions?
Well, it's weird, though.
When you meet a person who is on SNL, that's all we talk about.
Oh, really?
You know, like, I just saw Kevin Nealon the other day.
That's all we talk about.
It's like a weird.
It's a very unique experience.
It's like astronauts.
There's not that many of them.
That's someone's joke.
I can't.
Or is it a joke?
It's just a reality.
It's a small club.
But I can see if you had a brief meeting with him and you felt like perhaps you were being used as a pawn, you were probably right.
Right.
Well, I didn't think that till afterwards.
But I do think I was being, because someone told me that.
But I do think I was being schooled somehow.
Yeah.
And that, you know, that whatever he was looking for, that whatever shot I had at it, when he did that sort of probe of me, he didn't see it.
And I felt that.
Like, you know, he's like, I need to look in your eyes for a minute.
So I'm doing that thing.
And I think that he just didn't see what he was looking for.
I bet he had made his decision before your meeting.
Sure.
Then why'd he make me wait three hours?
Yeah, that's a weird old-school Hollywood thing that's still stuck around.
Yeah, I was waiting in that dressing room for two hours by myself, and then Tracy Morgan showed up.
And his hair, all I remember about Tracy is that his afro was perfect.
Yes.
What makes a perfect afro?
It's symmetry?
It was shiny.
He was ready.
He was ready.
Was he auditioning then?
Or was he on the show?
No, that was before.
These were the meetings to get cast.
He made it to the waiting room at Lorne Michaels' office.
Well, there's many people, maybe some that were in this podcast, who have taken long walks on the beach with Lorne and not been cast in the show.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I love Amy.
I love her.
There's a beautiful story.
It was a perspective that helped me, actually.
And here's another Lauren story from Rob Riggle.
This is from episode 194.
So after Afghanistan, you come back and what?
You go back to the UCB?
Yeah, I got back in 2002.
Yeah.
And then I went back to the UCB, kept working.
In 2004, I got on Saturday Night Live.
Wow.
So, I mean, I was very fortunate.
Now, when you audition for something like that, when you're sitting there with Lauren Michaels, I've been through that process.
Yeah.
You told him you were a Marine, right?
Um, no, I didn't tell him.
I think maybe he might've heard or maybe he knew.
Did he ask you about it?
No, no.
Lauren asked weird questions.
I know he does.
He doesn't ask regular questions.
What did he ask you?
He asked me if I dyed my hair.
Uh-huh.
Did he make you look him in the eye?
No, I mean, he was nice.
He wasn't mean or, like, he just asked random questions.
That's all.
I mean, he was polite to me, and I thought we had pretty nice dialogue and stuff.
And you were on the show for a year?
Yeah.
Why did that stop?
I never got a good answer, but I did have someone over there kind of talk to me about it, because by most people's account...
I had a pretty good year, you know?
Right, yeah, you did a lot of stuff.
But I think what it was was, this is how it was explained to me.
I don't know if it's true or not, so take it all for what it's worth.
Yeah.
But...
They had a big cast, 14, 15, and I was the only guy hired that year.
Right.
Usually, if you have a freshman class, you get three, four guys, gals.
You kind of come in with a group of other people.
You were just the one guy.
I was one guy.
One new guy hired that year.
And it was an election year, which usually in election years, I think SNL gets a big ratings bump because people check back in with the show and they want to see how they're going to do the debates and all that stuff.
Right.
And for whatever reason, I think 2004 was just a real shitty election.
And I don't think people were really jazzed about it.
So they didn't get quite the balance they wanted.
So I think first one or last one in, first one out.
Yeah.
So the Marine had to go.
Marine had to go.
I have no regrets about it.
You know, I mean, and it might've been the best case scenario.
Get in, get out.
Sure.
So I was, I've, I just love it.
It's broken some people.
Yeah, a lot of people, I still talk to some people who are on the show that can't let it go.
Oh, really?
They talk about it like it's nom?
Yeah, yeah, no kidding.
I'm like, move on.
It's all right, man.
And yeah, that's the thing about show business, too.
I was so naive.
I didn't know anything.
I was very green.
And so when I got on SNL, it's one of those things where you're like,
ba-boom yeah done and done yeah now just sit back and let it all happen and you what you what you realize yeah when you realize when you get shit canned yeah is oh yeah the show business is not there's no there's no finish line no it's you go from gig to gig yeah that's all you do and if you get a good gig you hope you do it for a while yeah you have to stash a little cash enough to get you the next gig exactly yeah but if you choose a life of show business
If you're getting into it for any other reason than love of acting or love of comedy, you are... It's a fool's errand.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's because there's no quitting with you.
Yeah.
So when you got canned from Saturday Night Live, you didn't even think... Honestly, that night, I remember I got the call and they said, you know, they're not going to pick up your contract.
And I was like, it hurt.
I'm not going to lie.
I was...
All those feelings of self-doubt and this, that, and the other.
Back to the UCB.
It's over.
Oh, God.
And the embarrassment.
Embarrassment.
Yeah, I was embarrassed because I could have... In my mind, I feel like I could have done better.
I could have done some things different.
Isn't that interesting?
Because I feel that too.
And I think that when you talk about...
outside of your, that standup wasn't for you.
Yeah.
That, that one of the reasons we do this is it's to control embarrassment.
It's to fight off embarrassment.
Like if we're, if we can make people laugh in that moment, we're not embarrassed.
We're winning.
Yes.
But that moment that they're not laughing or that moment where you're like, you don't have control over your comedy.
That flop sweat.
Yeah.
Fuck, dude.
Oh, it's a lonely, cold feeling.
That's the fear.
I mean, you could be up in the mountains of Afghanistan.
You're not going to be like him.
Am I okay?
Do I look all right?
Does everybody love me?
Yeah.
Everybody good?
No?
No, but the other thing, huh?
Holy fuck.
Oh.
Rob Riggle is one of the most solid dudes in comedy.
Grounded, together.
You feel like if he wasn't doing comedy, he'd be fine.
He's just one of those guys that takes life on.
And he's just a grounded guy.
Basically the opposite of me.
So Jason Sudeikis was in here, another great guy.
And he, this is his Lawrence story.
This is from episode 205.
As the weeks went by, a couple weeks later, I got asked if I wanted to be hired as a writer.
And so I was a little bit like, oh, and it's a wonderful opportunity.
Now you're in showbiz, you know, like that's sort of the way you can think about it.
So you were excited about that?
Initially, yes.
Like, I mean, working for SNL and there was, and, but it wasn't like, why can't it be on camera?
Uh, I, I think I've echoed those sentiments to definitely myself, definitely my, uh, my, my, uh, fiance at the time and, and all that stuff.
But, uh, but, but, uh, but probably kept that a little bit, you know, within because it's because it was like, okay, well, I got this, I'm going to do this.
Yeah.
Heroes and other people that I looked up to have been let go from this job.
Uh, I'm probably going to get let go.
Did not unpack, like moved to 46th street between 5th and 6th.
Horrible place to live.
First place I looked at, uh, on like a Craigslist and, uh, and then just wrote it out for, for a few weeks and, and had a real, real great, really, um, wonderful first month there.
The first three.
You didn't have a sit down with Lauren.
I did.
I went in.
Yeah, I did.
I went to got flown out there.
Uh,
sat sat down with him in his office in his office he offered me water i said no i then gave myself the little life lesson of like always say yes to the water just say yes because it'll get like this it'll get like a little dry mouth and also like this guy may never give you anything again you know like drink drink drink his fucking water it's probably great water yeah um and then um we had a great moment where horatio
or was it Tina?
I forget who it was.
It was one of, again, a person that was at that point was like, you know, someone I looked up to and I can't believe I'm in the same room on this floor with them and they're talking to me and kind of giving me advice.
Don't worry.
It's just kind of a cool me.
He's just going to make sure you're, you know, you're not crazy.
He won't ask you anything about the show.
So don't think it's anything like that.
I'm like, Oh, okay, good.
Thank God.
Literally five minutes in we get, we get riffing on, uh, I get riffing on like my, my,
it's that I wasn't crazy about what's it called Cirque du Soleil right like I like Blue Man Group and I like you know and I just hated the music now Cirque du Soleil the Beatles show love to pieces because hearing Beatles that loud and pop around himself but like he then we're talking about that and then he goes
so what era did you grow up with?
And I'm like, oh, what do you mean?
Of the show, what era?
And I just went fucking blank.
I was like, Horatio said you wouldn't ask me a thing about the show in my head.
And I'm just kind of staring at it.
I mean, the answer is Dana Carvey, Phil Hartman, like those years.
And I was just kind of like, oh, gosh.
And the first person that came to my mind was Eddie Murphy.
Yeah.
Like one of my absolute all-time favorite, like top three performers ever.
And he, but I know he didn't hire Eddie Murphy.
So like they're just firing me like,
I swallowed that, and then the other one I was just like, well, you know, we grew up with the Best of John Belushi videotape, and I'm just kind of stumbling for it.
That's when you said that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he just goes, and he just kind of smiled, and he goes, no, no, that's okay.
I didn't watch the show when I didn't work on it either.
Yeah.
Which was so great, like such a bailout.
Because he knew how old you were?
Well, I think it literally was thinking, because there are people that work on that show that they didn't go through grade school, high school, drama program, ImprovOlympic, everything, to be on that show.
And I think he's sensitive to that.
But I think there is part of him that just was bailing out the awkwardness of like, you know.
He did your favor.
Oh, totally.
I mean, the first of many, yeah.
And so you have no weird moments with him outside of that?
No, I, you know, I, not really.
I mean, you know, he's, I mean, I, he's like, he's, he's like a coach.
Yeah.
He's one of those dudes that, you know, and, and he is, he is, I mean, that's one of my favorite things.
Has he made, has he made judgment calls with you on, on sketches and characters where, you know, you, he said something and you're like, oh, come on.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
I mean, he's protecting me.
I mean, I auditioned for Update twice, you know, and I think he was very hesitant to have me come in after Jimmy, you know.
Not that, I mean, Amy, you know, got it as she should have and it was fantastic.
But, like, I think he, you know, he was...
He was very patient and understanding of my situation, of being a guy that I think he knew wanted to perform.
So it was before you were a performer?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I wrote for 37 episodes.
I got brought in the last three episodes of my second year as a writer.
I was used a lot in monologues, as they do.
There was always a sign indicating that there was a chance I would be a performer.
But I...
I had to have that talk with him.
I was kind of like, you know, I, I, I think I might, I don't think I can write here.
I don't think you're like, I'm, I'm giving you all I can give and you're not getting everything out of me.
And, you know, but that's, that's like, I would say to a coach, like I'd go in there and go, you gotta let me, you gotta give me the green light.
Like, I'm not going to shoot every time, but I got to know that you trust me to, you know, it's like one of those kinds of like conversations.
Um, and he, he responds very, very well to, uh, you know, the, the sports metaphor and, and, and, uh,
And while his door is not always open, you can always knock on him.
And that's the relationship I have with him, and everybody's different.
Like we referenced, or I did Citizen Kane earlier, but I think that's the most profound thing about that movie, that as you're looking at, it's one man, it's eight different people talking about one guy.
You could have eight SNL folks in a row, and they would all do a bad impression of him.
That's the only constant.
Everything else is all, it's as subjective.
So when did he give you the green light?
Uh...
How did that come about?
What did he say?
I would say the green light.
You're going in, kid.
He called on a Friday before a Monday, and he was like, so my friend Katie, Katie, who works on Jimmy Fallon's show, was an assistant for him at the time.
And I had a voicemail, like old school, where it screened calls.
And I was laying in bed.
It was like 1230 on an off week.
At night?
No.
In the afternoon.
Yeah.
Like, not even up.
And, hey, Sudeikis, it's Katie.
I have Lauren for you.
Give us a call.
I was like, that's a first.
Yeah.
So, get up, took a shower.
To make a phone call?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Called my wife at the time, and I said, I might be, left a message because she didn't answer.
She's a comedy writer as well?
Yeah, she writes on 30 Rock.
It's my ex-wife now.
We're divorced now, but yeah.
Your friend still?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, more and more each day, but yeah, no, she's amazing and incredibly...
I see.
Shower up for the call.
Shower up for the call.
Call Kay.
Say, hey, I might be calling you back here soon with some info.
You know, because it's something.
It's going to be something.
It's either going to be you're fired or it's not going to be, how you doing?
You know what I mean?
And so then I call.
Hello.
I was like, hi, Lauren.
How are you doing?
So we want to move you into the cast.
It's always we, the show.
It's the royal we.
It's fantastic.
I actually appreciate that sentiment.
Uh, great.
Uh, uh, when?
Uh, Monday.
So, you know, just, you know, when it comes time to write, just write something you think you can score on.
I was like, okay, great.
Um, you know, and then my joke has always been, thank you.
And then hanging up for changing my life.
And, uh, and, uh, and then called K and then called my buddies, uh, Rich Tellarico, a great, great writer, uh, who was writing there at the time and Joe Kelly.
And, uh,
And we went and got day drunk and hit golf balls at Chelsea Pierce.
Nice.
And did those guys, when you did write the piece to score with, did it score?
The piece that I wrote did not because I think I went to like a trunk piece, like something that I had done 100 times before that had killed in other venues besides SNL, which is a very different medium.
And that's something you sort of learn in your first few months there.
And you definitely have to relearn it when I was put into the cast.
But then Joe wrote something.
Joe and Rich wrote something with Will Forte, this great, really funny, goofy character that he only did like once or twice that I had a bit in there that did really, really well.
Just literally like a feature player 101, like just coming in, get your joke.
And I got it and got out of there.
And it's like, good show.
And then, yeah.
And then went home that night.
Kay was living out here, went home that night.
Uh, and, uh, went to the after party.
It was like, I was in the cast.
Holy shit.
I got, I got a car to take me to the after party.
Went home that night.
It was started to try to fall asleep at like, you know, 6am.
Couldn't, couldn't, had to get up, uh, went over to my television, uh, and the futon, the used futon that I had bought, you know, cause I thought I was going to be out of there in, in, in weeks time, uh, that two years before, uh, and watched, listened to the, watched the opening credits, listened to Don Pardo said my name and balled my fucking eyes out.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, it's just like one of those things where you're like, that's what?
Yeah.
That's how it went down.
It's nice to be bawling your eyes out on a used futon for good reasons.
Yeah, yeah.
It may be the only recorded time.
That story doesn't usually end well.
No, it does not.
That was Sudeikis.
Another good guy.
Pretty solid guy, that guy.
And this next one is actually from one of my favorite episodes of WTF.
This is number 219.
Episode 219 with Norm MacDonald and his Lawrence story.
what was the struggle?
Like how often did you deal with Lauren around that stuff?
Well, the great thing about Lauren is he do, you could do anything you wanted.
He would tell you, uh, wise things, you know, like wisdom or whatever.
He's like a little Buddha guy, right?
Yeah.
Did it ever make sense?
Not to me.
He'd always walk away going, what the fuck?
To other people that did.
Like I remember one time he wanted me, like this was actually, uh, with the weekend update.
They wanted me to do weekend update.
Um,
With a lady.
Yeah.
Like two of us.
And I was like, that sounds like shit.
I don't want to fucking, that sounds like shit.
Like, I'm like, if there's a lady and a dude, like, what are we making fun of local news?
What the fuck is that?
He's like, no, no.
He's like, well, you'll be, he had some crazy, he goes like, I think he liked me because I didn't understand what he was talking about.
And he goes like, he goes, you'll be a Fred Astaire and she'll be ginger.
You'll like, you know, give her the sex comedy and she'll give you the sex.
And I was like, the dancers, what?
i didn't know what he was fucking talking about so anyways i go i don't want to fucking do it with a lady let franken do it yeah so uh franken was gonna do it yeah it was frank and me or somebody else so uh i didn't care that much about it so uh because i could just do stand-up but anyways what happened was it was funny like steve martin walked in because he was hosting yeah and lauren to embarrass me went let's see what steve thinks about it and steve martin doesn't give a fuck about anything yeah
So, but he goes, Norm wants to do what the lady thinks.
And he does this big, long spiel.
And Steve Martin's completely uninterested.
Been dragged into something he wanted no part of.
But luckily, he fucking just said out of the blue, he goes, oh, fuck.
He goes, I did this award show with some broad.
And they paired me up with her.
And she fucked everything up.
I guess they stuck him with something.
So then Lauren goes, oh, there's some support from an unexpected place.
Yeah.
And that's how you got the solo update?
Yeah, Steve Martin, because he was such a hero to learn.
You had a bad experience with an award show, and you get to run the solo on the update?
Yeah, it was awesome.
That was a fucking good moment.
But I would have been in big trouble with a lady.
But then later, they did it with a lady and a dude.
Because he kept saying, oh, remember, because I know Saturday Night Live, like all of us, right?
Yeah.
And he was like, remember Jane and Dan?
And I was like, that was shit.
I remember Jane, you ignorant slut.
But I also remember all the rest of the fucking shit.
He had a hat on and pretended to be from the... They played characters.
And I was not interested in that because Dennis kind of changed it to Dennis Miller where... Where you do jokes.
Where you do jokes.
If you haven't listened to that full Norm Macdonald episode, you should really check that out.
That was sort of a pivotal episode for me emotionally and perception-wise in terms of my own perception of people and what I think I know and what it turns out the truth is.
I also want to mention here that we've had some good Lauren stories in front of live audiences as well.
Here are some from Bill Hader, Fred Armisen, and Seth Meyers from episodes 164 and 223.
These are live episodes of WTF.
We don't do them so much anymore, but we used to do them more frequently.
Enjoy these.
How often do you have to deal with Lorne?
Like, every day?
All the time.
He's awesome.
He really is great.
He's very hands-on.
Can I share with you how paranoid I am?
Yeah.
You know, I had one meeting with him.
When?
Like, 95 or something.
And it didn't go well.
And, like, I think he brought me in was when Luna was starting downtown.
And, like, the first thing he said to me was, like, I don't know what you think you're doing down there below 14th Street, but it doesn't matter.
LAUGHTER
It didn't matter, did it?
No, it didn't matter at all.
But this is how fucking nuts I am and how self-important I am.
The Wall Street Journal wrote up this show and I told the interviewer who was asking me about Luna and that you guys were coming on and I told him about the SNL story and I told him that story because he was asking me about alternative comedy and I called him back.
And I said, look, could you pull the Lorne thing out?
Because I don't want him to see it and then say, and then keep Fred and Bill late.
Like I thought Lorne Michaels was going to see that story and say, you guys aren't going.
You're not going to the fabled WTM.
Wow.
That's crazy.
That's a good move, though.
That is a good move.
He did the right thing.
He did the right thing.
No, yeah.
I mean, there's certain things he'll laugh really hard at.
Anytime Will Forte would get angry in a sketch, Lauren would start laughing really hard.
And Will's face would get red and be like, What the fuck are you doing?
Yeah.
Like, he would just, like, that was like Lauren's sweet spot.
Lauren would just start laughing.
He would see it on the horizon.
Yeah, yeah.
But does that make everybody feel good?
Like, does Will come back and go, I fucking made the king laugh?
Yeah, yeah.
Or you do hear that.
Sometimes you go back to the office and be like, Lauren was laughing.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a point.
That's a point.
I have to read through it.
Or you're doing something, you look up and he's not laughing and you're like, oh, no.
Has he ever given you any weird notes?
like that just made you go oh okay sometimes you have to like think like what what does he mean by that uh-huh it's that kind of thing but they're always constructed he'll do weird psych out thing not weird site but he'll I think he's being honest but it becomes a site like the very first Vincent Price we did I came up and he was like there's a band's playing I'm dressed as Vincent Price I'm sitting there I'm like really nervous I'm kind of it's like my fifth show or something and he came up to me he's like I like this but why now
And I was like, why didn't you just say I'm about to go live?
And he's like, no, no, it's good.
I like it.
How'd you start over there?
How'd that happen?
I came back from Amsterdam.
I was doing a two-person show in Chicago, and I got lucky that somebody saw it.
And so I auditioned.
I sent in an audition tape.
Six months later, I sent in another audition tape.
Like two months after that, I actually came in and did the audition, and I got hired.
And how was that first meeting with Lorne?
It was crazy because I was in L.A.
at the time.
They flew out, and I met with Lorne, and I remember Lorne saying to me, because again, the crazy thing about meeting Lorne is you know, you have so much, you have so many feelings about Lorne, and he has a million of these meetings.
You know what I mean?
For you, it's like this crazy.
There's another clown.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You feel like your muscles, you feel like, oh, I don't usually do this with my hand.
Why is my hand on this knee?
And he's just like, yes.
Look at him squirm.
I remember him saying, this is after audition, he was like, do you think you can live in New York?
And I remember thinking, who blows it at this point?
Like,
Like, who says, oh, is it in New York?
Well, I would need to think about it if it's in New York.
But I've realized years later that, like, it's kind of, you know, after you audition and go through that, like, it's kind of like he just kind of wants to, like, personality vet you a little bit and see if you're... Because he does, you know, I think, live by that thing of, like, you know, you want somebody you're cool with working with, so...
Now, you get along with him now.
See, I'm sort of fascinated with it because I went through a series of meetings I don't need to talk about again.
Obviously, I'm not, you know, on the show.
But now, I've had Hayter and Armisen sitting right here.
Wow, really?
Yeah, they were right here.
Wow.
We came on the wrong night.
We have arrived.
Yeah.
But they both have this dynamic with him that seems very specific.
And do you have one of those?
I do.
I think I have a different... I mean, I obviously listen to that.
I feel like I have a different dynamic.
He is so delighted when people work on the show.
Like, I think he loves that.
You mean, like, actually do work?
No, like, when the audience goes for them.
Like, I think his joy in, like, Fred and Hader is, like, as much a joy as he could have for, like... I mean, obviously, he has children.
He's proud of them.
But he...
No, he is.
I don't want to say he's as proud of them as he is of his kids.
Are they okay?
They're great.
I've had a longer path with him and a weirder path.
Did you start as a writer?
I started as a cast member, at which point I felt instantly miscast.
I was like, oh, they've made a crazy mistake.
But I wrote a lot as a cast member, and I wrote a lot for other people, and so when Tina left, they made me... Or Tina's last year, they made me a writing supervisor, and then when Tina left...
They promoted me to head writer with Andrew Steele.
Can I ask a question?
Yeah.
Your audition for Lauren.
Yeah.
What was your impression or impressions?
My impressions were, this dates me to my 2001 audition, but I did Hugh Grant.
Yeah.
Russell Crowe and David Arquette.
Can you still do David Arquette?
I can't.
I really can't.
I do remember it was about when he used to do those 1-800-CALL-ATT ads.
It was more like a parody of those ads.
They were like, just do your impressions of characters, of which I had none.
I have very, very little range as a performer.
What was your Russell Crowe like?
My Russell Crowe was him hosting a talk show, which we then mounted as a sketch.
And this is what I realized, which is doing impressions on SNL, which is like Lorne, I feel like has a very, he has a sense of integrity about it, which is like literally my head is half the size of Russell Crowe's head.
Like there's no amount of like makeup you can put on me that I'm a believable Russell Crowe.
And I felt like I had the voice and stuff and it wasn't a bad sketch.
And he was like, you're a tiny person compared to Russell Crowe.
And I just have a small head and you can't do impressions of people with big heads.
And to continue the Bill Hader theme here, this is when he was in the garage in episode 413.
Walk me through.
I'm not digging for anything.
Set the scene.
I want the dialogue.
I want you to act this out.
You telling Lauren that you're leaving.
I want voices.
Okay.
Okay.
Let's see.
We just, Justin Bieber had just pitched.
We just did our pitch meeting with Justin Bieber.
Yeah.
No.
We did a pitch meeting with Justin Bieber.
next day tuesday yeah i walk in and lauren immediately started talking about i think up all night had just gotten canceled or something so he's talking about that yeah and it was all this small talk and my stomach was in knots and he knew exactly why i was coming in how did he know my agent had told him that i was moving to california oh and so i was but not quitting the show yeah and
And so we're going to go on and talk about me moving to California.
And we walked in, and he started telling me this, and he went, so you're moving to California.
And I said, yes.
And he went, like, he just kind of like, like, that's what he did.
He went, yeah.
and i was like yeah you know it's just been great working here and then i think it's just you know and he was like no you know i get it and and you have kids and you know and you have to you know he goes but you know they have backyards in westchester too you know yeah yeah so he wanted you to stay yeah but he totally got it he's like you know you got two kids you gotta i get it i said all right and uh
And then he said, well, let's wear this for a while.
It's not, you know, it's February.
We have until the end of the season.
And I said, okay.
Does that mean don't say anything?
Don't say anything.
Don't go public with it.
And I wasn't going to go public with it anyway, but I knew in February.
And then it was good.
Then, you know, he would do little things like something would go really well, and he would walk over and go, you're going to miss this.
You know?
The essential thing was I, you know, I...
I get it, but I wish he would stay.
But I get why.
You've been here eight years.
My contract was for seven.
I won an extra season.
He fully got it.
And then when I said I want to announce it in New York Times the week of my last show, he went, oh, okay, well, let's figure out how to do that, and I'll be a part of the thing.
He was cool.
He was really...
But it is a thing where you have to kind of, you just have to be really straightforward with them.
And it's nerve-wracking because you're kind of going in with the guy that said, him.
And your whole life changed.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
He's a king.
He's a magic.
Yeah.
He's magic.
He went, you.
And your whole life changed.
So it was this feeling of wanting to, it was like breaking up with your dad or something.
Breaking up with your dad?
Yeah.
It was like, I'm sorry.
I just did that.
Yeah.
No.
It's all right.
It's all right.
We'll probably get back together.
Oh, I hope so.
We kind of stuck with him.
Yeah.
But that's the thing.
You know he's always going to be there and stuff.
So it's never like, oh, I'm not going to not talk to you ever again.
But people have told me that you get really emotional.
Other people have left the show say, oh, when I told Lauren I was leaving, I started crying and stuff like that.
That didn't happen, but it was like the room started spinning.
It was like I said, I'm leaving the show.
Right.
And then it was like...
You couldn't believe it?
I thought it was either a weight had been put on my shoulders or lifted, and I thought I might pass out in front of it.
How horrible would that be if I pass out right now?
It would be great.
And then you'd be like, he doesn't want to leave.
He said he wanted to leave, and then he fell flat on his face.
He's staying.
What I learned about Lorne is that he really is just a huge comedy fan.
One of the most telling moments I had with him was there was a show I think Tina Fey hosted and Steve Martin came on and did a bit in it and I had a moment with Lorne and Steve Martin and we started talking about comedy albums.
And Lorne lit up in a way that I hadn't seen where I was like, oh yeah, you just love this shit.
What was he talking about?
Early Lenny Bruce.
before he got political right and like he and Steve Martin doing the whole album you know doing bits from the album and I still have it like they were had a napkin they're writing down the albums I needed to go get and some of them were like the Nichols and May one which I had and um Tom Lear Tom Lear Tom Lear Tom Lear which I never got music music yeah um Richard Pryor yeah
I mean, they just talked about Richard Pryor a lot.
Yeah.
Just how good Richard Pryor was.
Yeah.
And Steve Martin said, yeah, he's like Richard Pryor was.
He's like, yeah, that guy was.
Did they give a reason?
He was the best.
Yeah.
I mean, they just talked about his joke and how he was just different and what he brought to it.
Yeah, so much vulnerability to the thing.
yeah exactly and you kind of and what steve martin was doing and and what richard prior was doing and how kind of he it was just interesting hearing him talk about him yeah and but that night it was when i was like oh yeah you were just a big fan guy and they were quoting like monty python oh beyond the fringe that was a big one oh really beyond the fringe album and huh how great that was
It's amazing to see these guys as people, or as fans in general.
Yeah, and just watching them as fans made me go, oh, okay, I get it now.
They're just guys who like this.
They just love this, and he just decided... Just billionaires having a nice time.
Yeah, they're throwing money at each other.
No, but hearing Lauren, I go, oh, yeah, you just love this, and you're like, yeah, I'm going to just make the show about it.
Well, it's pretty fascinating that now he sort of owns...
He's got The Tonight Show.
It's a fascinating thing with that guy to me.
He just kind of hangs out and he does this thing and it's like, okay, I have The Tonight Show now.
Oh, The Tonight Show.
It's show business.
He loves show business.
Bill Hader, another great guy.
Solid dude.
This one was very moving to me.
This whole episode was moving to me.
If you haven't listened to Molly Shannon, you should check that out.
That's episode 264, and this is her Lauren experience.
Like, I'm always fishing for Lauren moments.
Do you think he's different with the women on the show than he is with the men?
Yeah.
Um, in what way?
What do you mean?
And just in the relationship expectations or, or, or anything.
Cause I've never really, I mean, I've talked to Amy Poehler about it and she, no one's had anything but good things to say about Lauren, quite honestly.
Yeah.
And, um, but I, he's really comfortable with women.
Yeah.
I think that men have more of a father thing for him sometimes.
Right.
like a critical dominant father, whereas girls don't have it as much.
He's very comfortable with women.
He loves funny women.
He's very insightful and deep and analytical.
He could size anybody up very quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's really fun to have dinner with.
He's, he's serious and a deep thinker.
And, um,
He's like the kind of person who, like I would say to people who were going to meet him, I'm like, don't try to be funny.
Just let him talk.
Because if you're like, hey, he wouldn't like that necessarily.
It's just a big deal for comedians to have that moment where they're meeting with him and it's such a big show that's been around for so long.
Well, that was the other thing with him is that...
His dad died when he was young.
Oh, really?
He lost his father, yeah.
Yeah, that has a tremendous impact on people, obviously.
But I've noticed that with fathers who are absent or gone, the kind of drive that comes from that and the need to prove yourself is pretty profound.
It is.
Yeah.
Oh, Molly Shannon.
How can you not love Molly Shannon?
This next bit of Lorne's story is from Jim Brewer.
And Jim Brewer and I are okay.
We weren't always okay.
There was a... I don't know, man.
It was a pretty...
intense episode because we were never really friends and yeah we were okay but then he told this Lauren story I mean after the episode this episode this is from episode 435 of WTF after after I talked with him on the podcast you know we became closer but his Lauren Michael story actually gave me some new information about me and my experience with Lauren Michael so it was it was pretty mind-blowing
You were up for SNL as the news guy.
Right.
And Lauren sat me down.
And Lauren sat me down, and I swear to God, here's how it went.
He goes, Jim, we're thinking about using Marc Maron as the update guy.
Do you have thoughts on him?
That's exactly what I said I went.
Okay.
Okay.
I think he'll be the best news guy you've ever had in your life.
I really said that.
I said, but you need to know a lot of people have problems with him.
I go, he pisses people off, but that has nothing to do with me.
And I said, if he's for the news guy, I think you got a home run.
Yeah.
I go, am I best friends with him?
No.
Do I love the guy?
No.
However, the guy would be a monster news anchor.
Oh, my God.
I really feel that way, Lauren.
And he's like, no, that's pretty much the feedback I get from everyone.
I said, did you meet with him already?
Now, I don't know if he said this.
or you said this, something about monkeys.
I feel like he said, I feel like he told me this.
He said to me, he said he met with you, and I said, well, how'd it go?
And he said, well, he said everyone enjoys a monkey or something until they throw the feces at you, or he said that.
No, I said that to him.
He said, comedians are like monkeys.
The monkeys make people laugh, and I said, unless they're throwing their shit at you.
Which, when he said- That stuck with him?
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
Come on, you fucking with me now?
No, I swear to God I'm not.
I swear to God.
That made me-
really like you come on i swear to god and and then i you know i'm obsessed with that meeting you know i mean i talk about it all the fucking time i'm obsessed with that meeting with lauren he sat me down and he he asked me about you and he asked me about tracy morgan yeah because we were there the same day and i said tracy is the most raw
funniest human beings i've ever met in my life off stage lauren i don't think i've ever laughed so hard just off stage i said i i just listened to him rant and i just find myself i feel like i'm looking at a richard prior but it's it's raw yeah it's on stage is a different beast right off stage i've never seen any more fascinating in my life and he goes no mark
what about Marc Maron for the update?
And I really got, so he was really thinking about it.
Cause I thought, cause I thought like, you know, in retrospect that he might've been, you know, trying to muscle Norm into something or whatever, but cause I didn't get it, obviously.
They were done with Norm.
Yeah.
They were done.
They were done.
Yeah.
Yeah, that bit of information sort of changed my perspective of what might have happened to me.
Will Ferrell was in the garage for episode 450, and he just, another great guy.
Not surprising, but he's different than he is on TV in a way.
And he had great stories about everything, including this Lorne Michaels story.
Did you audition?
Yeah.
For the news?
Yeah.
yeah i'm getting bits and pieces of that uh of that story yeah no i audition i was i jumped through the hoops he saw me uh marcy saw me live marcy saw me at largo or at luna lounge okay and then set up an audition at the comic strip for lauren to come down but see you got to do it and then lauren had me in the studio oh you had to do this the awful one where no one laughs and you're just in there and then he met
with me and somehow I feel like I botched it.
It's been hanging over me.
But I talked to everybody who's been on SNL about my audition there.
And... Oh, so I just wandered right into it.
Sure you did, yeah.
Jim Brewer gave me some new information that... Because I never knew, like I'd heard different things that, you know, Norm was leaving or he wasn't leaving.
Maybe I was being used to pressure Norm.
You know, I don't have too many regrets about it.
I don't think at the time I was ready for the gig.
I probably would have, you know, I definitely was not.
But yeah, it looms large.
I need to talk to Lauren.
Can we call him?
We probably can't get a hold of him.
Okay.
But how did you get called up?
So you were in the main stage of the Groundlings and somebody said... Yeah, Marcy and that crew came out and...
They saw... Yeah, they flew out Sherry and Chris and I. Yeah.
And Jennifer Coolidge.
Uh-huh.
And... She was a growling, too?
She was a growling, too.
She's a pretty astounding talent.
Yep.
Very funny.
Pretty funny.
And, yeah, we did that weird, nondescript...
Well, the first one was more specific.
It was five to eight minutes of a character of your choice, a celebrity impersonation if you did one, and a political impersonation if you did one.
What'd you do?
And I did Harry Carey at a play reading.
I did Ted Kennedy doing stand-up comedy.
And then I did...
I did this character that actually I did in the first show, this get off the shed, this dad yelling at his kids to get off the shed.
Yeah.
So I did those three things, and then that was it.
And the general word were the groundlings, all of the groundlings had done really well.
Uh-huh.
So then there was the callback.
Yeah.
And that's when you had the meeting with Lorne.
Right.
And that's where I thought...
Oh, I blew it.
Between the meeting and then the second audition where... So you had the meeting first and then the next audition?
Yeah, the meeting first.
What was that like?
Well, the meeting was pretty rough because...
Lauren asked me, what are you planning to do for the second audition?
And, you know, you always hear anytime I would heard about, and I hadn't done any sort of callbacks for anything.
Right.
But I'd always heard when you, when you get called for network for a TV show, like just do what you did the first time.
And so I was roughly saying, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to do this again and do that again.
And Lauren was like, no, I wouldn't do that.
And no.
And did you argue with that?
No, no, I'm going to.
And I thought, okay.
and what i realized he was doing was for the network he was like just he couldn't just come out and say it but he was like he wanted me to just bring in a whole brand new thing they've seen you do one thing now it wasn't for him he believed in you and he wanted i think so um and uh
So anyways, I'm in the hotel revamping the entire audition for the next day.
Yeah.
So I literally was coming up with it that night and just did it that day.
And then the next day I do the audition and then I see Lauren in the studio and I walk by, I'm like, thanks Lauren.
And I went to shake his hand and he just walked right by me.
So then I thought, oh, that's it.
Yeah.
Did you create new characters, though, that night?
I had done... I just kind of tried to cobble little pieces from sketches I'd done at the Groundlings.
Yeah.
So I did, you know, I did like a... There was a sketch I'd written with a friend about...
there's not much to the sketch it was just behavior of police officers and how they just love to uh do that you know the ask you questions with the light holding the light and the long pauses how you doing tonight mark they speak a little too loud i'm okay you're okay yeah yeah do you have identification on you yeah i do okay yeah
You still live in Highland Terrace?
Yeah, I do.
Yeah?
Yeah.
you comedian you think you're a comedian tonight no but like that whole thing and do it work i don't know because it's just a vacuum in that studio no one's laughing and it's horrible so i thought well just try not to rush through it yeah and then i did a thing where i'm a guy who plays with cat toys that was a complete physical bit yeah were you just batting at things and then i did a bad bill clinton impersonation because i knew well they got it they need someone who's gonna play the president and then who told you
He did, but not really.
So they said, Lauren wants to see you again.
He just wants to get to know you some more.
I thought, boy...
how much longer is this going to take?
But I'm like, but I can't feel impatient.
This is cool.
It's still the coolest thing.
You didn't say, is he going to shit or get off the pot?
I'm going to go in there with my demands.
But this, this is back to the briefcase story.
Yeah.
What is that?
Which, which in the first time I sat down with him, I had heard how, you know,
adam sand you know the the rumor was adam sandler had sex with the chair yeah and was signed in the office to a four-year deal on a spot you know that's what you'd heard he had sex with the chair he did a bit where he humped a chair and it's a lauren signed him to the classic stand-up closer exactly yeah and i thought oh well you know what he took the bull by the horns yeah so i'm gonna do something funny in in our meeting yeah and uh
I got a briefcase full and I just went to the toy store and I bought a bunch of fake money.
Yeah.
And I was just going to, while Lauren was talking in my mind's eye, I was just going to open the briefcase and just start stacking stacks of fake money on his desk and just say, Lauren, look, we can talk all day long, but we all know what really talks.
That's cash money.
And then I was going to walk out of the room.
I'm like, look, I'm going to walk out of here.
You can either... I'm not going to know if you take it.
Only you'll know.
And I'm just going to walk out of the room.
Well, I come in and I can immediately tell the atmosphere is not... Not funny.
And so I sat there nervously for my 10 minutes.
Yeah.
With my briefcase.
And I never get to my great joke.
And I walk out and I'm like, God.
He must be thinking, what comic carries a leather briefcase around with him and just nervously sits with it in his lap?
so then when I got called to meet him again for the final time I told my roommate like fuck it I'm bringing my briefcase I'm gonna do this thing and then I go I'm about to go in the room the assistant goes oh leave your briefcase you don't have to bring and I'm like ah so I left it in the course of this second meeting with Lauren he starts asking me questions and then he was you know he basically said so have you ever lived in New York
No.
Um, I think you'll like it.
I like, well, what is he talking about?
And we're hiring Sherry Oteri.
So you'll know someone.
And then I realize, Oh, I've got the gig.
So, but I'm so shocked that I don't, I don't react with any excitement.
Yeah.
And then we stand up and I go, Oh gosh, thank you.
I'm going to shake your hand.
Yeah.
Because I didn't know.
He's like, do whatever you have to do.
And so we shake hands and then I leave.
And then I have my briefcase and I say to the assistant, like, would you give him some of this fake money?
I've tried to do this twice now and I never could pull the trigger, but just hand him some of this fake money.
And then apparently he thought that that was so funny that I could never pull it off.
Oh, that didn't happen?
Yeah, that never happened.
Right.
But did you end up carrying a briefcase for a long time, or was it just those two meetings?
No, it was just those two meetings.
What I heard was that you were so embarrassed about it that for the whole season you showed up to work with a briefcase.
I should have.
Playing that again makes me... I want to talk to Will again.
I don't know if I can just call him and hang out.
He's probably busy.
All right, these next couple are back-to-back episodes with Andy Samberg and Will Forte on episodes 459 and 460.
He doesn't say congratulations.
He doesn't say welcome.
Yeah.
It's just like, okay.
I think his attitude with everyone he hires is...
I'm not going to ever let you know that I'm excited because I'm not until you prove that you're doing it well and making the show good.
Did he ever show his excitement?
There was a point it reached while working there where he would say, that was really funny.
Yeah.
Or like, hey, really nice job tonight.
Yeah.
Stuff like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, but not a lot.
Yeah.
Because if he does, it's like, you know, he's like the dad with 50 kids.
Right.
And they all want his approval all the time.
If he's too positive, then everybody's just, you have to live in fear a little bit, I think.
Now, when you were there, were you conscious of how it was supposed to work?
How did you learn how it worked?
Uh...
The best friend we had in that department was Mike Shoemaker.
He was someone who would actually talk to new people and be like, hey, don't get down about this.
This is pretty common.
You might want to steer things more this way.
That usually works.
But also the thing about SNL that everyone says and really is true is there's no one right way to go about it.
And it turned out to be incredibly true for us because the way that I succeeded there and the way me, Keev, and Jorm together succeeded was by going and taking the initiative and shooting our own stuff.
Right.
Because it's so much easier to show somebody that something's funny than to tell them.
Right.
And you were creating complete pieces.
Yeah.
So like, here's your piece.
This is the right time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And to their credit, they encouraged us.
We had shot a bunch of stuff before we worked there.
Keevan Joram had shot an idea we had had and showed it to them and said, would you ever air this?
And they said, if it had cast in it, yes.
Because there's so much cast right now.
We just have to make sure cast isn't the show.
OK.
Easy adjustment.
Yeah.
So the first one that we did was me and Forte called Lettuce, where it was just us sitting on a stoop having a really emotional conversation and then taking huge bites of heads of lettuce.
Not a music.
Not a music.
Like a melodrama parody.
Yeah.
So it's sort of like the Albert Brooks model in a way.
Yeah.
Closer.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Right.
And then the second one that aired was Lazy Sunday, which was the Parnell.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it was like, okay, these guys keep making them basically.
And what was the biggest one, the Justin Timberlake one?
I think Dick in a Box is the, yeah.
I've said before and am fine with that that's the thing that will be in my obituary.
Dick in a Box, just in quotations, they'll be on your gravestone.
Yeah.
I'll take it.
I was doing a Groundlings show one night, and all of a sudden there's a whisper that I heard, oh,
Lorne Michaels is in the audience.
Uh-huh.
And I was under contract at 70s Show, and we had just found out we got picked up for two years, so... You were in.
Yeah, I had a great show that night because there was no way I could do SNL even if Lorne liked me.
You didn't give a shit.
So all these people are, you know, probably nervous about their show.
Yeah.
And I was loose as a goose.
Yeah.
So I had a...
Good show that night, and then he asked me to audition, and I hadn't even thought that that would ever be something that I could do, and then Carsey Werner was...
I wasn't even going to go.
Carsey Wernher and Mark Brazil, they all said, oh, you've got to go auditioning.
I wanted them to say, oh, no, you can't go auditioning because I was terrified of it.
Anyway, so I finally just thought, okay, I've got to go auditioning.
Yeah, and how was that?
It was as terrifying as I thought.
Did you have a meeting with him first?
I didn't.
I did meet with him afterwards.
So you auditioned in the studio?
Auditioned in the studio.
Yeah.
What did you do?
I did this character, Tim Calhoun, who I did on the show a couple times once I got on it, and then a speed reader that I also did on the show, and this prison guard.
Yeah.
I did a Michael McDonald impersonation.
which nobody does, Michael McDonald, so that was really fresh.
The Doobie Brothers guy?
Yeah.
No, that's like everybody's impression.
Yeah.
That's better than mine.
And then I did Martin Sheen, and I don't do a good Martin Sheen.
I just don't do impersonations.
And then I did this sketch I used to do at the Groundlings.
There was a song at the end of the sketch where it's about this gold man who –
And basically, it's the guy dressed all in gold.
And if you give a dollar or something, they'll do the robotic movement.
And a robber comes and takes his... I hate those guys.
The guys that stand still?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So...
A robber comes, takes all his money, and then he is very sad.
And then somebody, a little kid and the dad said, why is this gold man so sad?
Well, I don't know, but if you give him a dollar, maybe he'll tell you.
And if you give him $2, maybe he'll tell you in song.
So the kid puts $2 in, and I sing this really uplifting song about...
you know, the tough life of a gold man, and then at the end, it's, you find out, well, it's because I got a little secret.
I saw cock for my face paint.
I saw cock for my face paint.
And then the rest of the song is just the words cock and face paint, basically.
I saw cock for my face paint.
Cock, face paint.
cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock cock
I'm sorry about all the cocks.
Sorry about all the cocks.
Oh, it's good.
Yeah.
So there you go.
There's a couple episodes from The Young Guns, Sandberg and Forte.
Now, here's this one sort of this was sort of an important episode for me to find and talk to Dan Vitale.
I don't think you know him.
You probably don't.
I knew him back in the day when we were both doing comedy in the late 80s, and he was briefly on SNL.
He was briefly a cast member.
This was in the 80s.
And Lorne Michaels played a very important role in his life.
And he shares that here.
He was actually sort of like my mentor for like, I'd say like two, two and a half years where like I would be up at his office like almost every week.
He'd have me up to his apartment.
He was taking me out.
He got me some development money from NBC to not go work anywhere.
So it was like the first like real time of my life.
What did you learn from him though when he sat and talked to him?
I mean, what was the impression?
you know one thing that jumps out at me that it's funny coming from this conversation i always remember was like because you know like the other night me and you were talking on the phone real quick and i just went like mark i'd love to do the podcast but the sooner the better yes i fold under pressure right like if i have another day to think of it i may think of a reason that i can't do so lauren would say to me like sometimes when like
I would like, he'd go, you know, he'd see me, he'd come to the improv all the time and he'd bring in people and come in like a lot.
And he said, you know, man, he goes, really great comedians got to stand up there and take the bullets.
And I don't think you're ready to, you know what I mean?
Like you don't,
You're not there yet.
You don't just take the bullets.
You, like, fold under the bullet.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
Like, in a great cop movie, the guy's, like, shooting it out.
Like, I'm the guy who, as soon as he got shot at.
Stumbling the gun?
Yeah.
Like, you know, Barney Fife or something, you know?
So, like, looking back, that was really...
It's something that I always remembered because even like at Rocky Sullivan's, I get up there and I go like, I know I'm going to do close to an hour.
And I know I'm going to wind up having fun.
But these first 10 minutes are going to be dreadfully painful.
I just got to get through.
I have to like, you know what I mean?
And that's something I couldn't do when I was younger.
But what did I learn from him?
You know, looking back, he was a great guy, and he really... I've thought about him a lot over the years.
It's like, you know, there was the first guy who really made me feel special.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, really said, like, you know, you got something special.
And he really tried to give me opportunities...
uh in in terms of mentoring no he didn't you know he didn't have anything to offer right you know like you would think that he might have been a guy who'd seen all these guys come you understand this is the 80s i'm sure that like some of the people that he had to deal with hadn't come later yeah like you know the chris farley sure guys like that so um
I don't know.
He made me just... It was like that feeling of special, like feeling like you have a unique talent.
You deserve to be doing this.
It's kind of like... I tell you, man, I've made peace with it.
I made peace with it a long time ago.
But I can't help but think sometimes.
I mean, Mark, I'm not saying this out of... I was like... I didn't get...
I got into the candy store.
I didn't get up the ladder to that nice jar.
But man, I got into the store.
I have a friend of mine who uses that metaphor.
He goes, no, you really got more to the window.
You were close, but you're looking in.
But I kind of felt like I got into the store, and I just didn't have it to get up that ladder to the thing.
But I got into the, I think I feel like that I got into a door that a lot of guys never get in that door.
So I should be very grateful.
I think I showed up drunk at one of the auditions, and yet he called me to the office, and I remember sitting in the office.
So this is like the fall of 1985.
Yeah.
And he went, all right, tell Downey's agent 3,000 a week.
See if you could do, you know.
Robert was like 20 years old.
He's like, all right.
And then he looked at me, and he went, Dan, in the words of...
the Kennedy brothers talking about LBJ, I'm hiring you.
I'd rather have you inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in.
And what did that mean to you?
I guess it meant like I've spent a couple years trying to develop stuff with you.
Now I've got this thing I'm doing, and if I don't hire you, it would be just my luck for you to be a –
to hit on some other venue and attack me.
Right.
And so, like, he still believed in me enough that way.
I definitely got to call Vitaly, see how he's doing.
I love playing these things for you.
I love hearing them again.
This is Mike Myers.
Yes, I went to Mike Myers' office and sat down and had a very energetic exchange with the comedy legend.
But this is Mike Myers' Lauren Story from episode 518.
When I wrote Wayne's World...
It was a sketch I had done on Canadian TV on a show called It's Only Rock and Roll.
And it was kind of my big character, you know?
So I wrote it on a yellow pad and I wrote it till about four o'clock in the morning and I put it on the big pile of submissions.
And the next morning, the secretaries type them up, and they make the packs of scripts that you read at the read-through table.
You have to hand it in by noon.
So I was there at 4 o'clock in the morning.
I just handed it in.
One of the senior writers came in and went to the pile and started looking at people's scripts, which as a Canadian, I was like, you can't look at the pile.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
The pile.
He's looking at the big board.
So he looks through the scripts, and then he picks out mine, because mine was the only one that was on yellow pad, written like a serial killer, and terrible handwriting.
And he went, is this yours?
And he read it, read it, read it, and he took it off the pile and put it on the read-through table some 15 feet away.
And I thought, what...
What just happened?
Like I didn't like I was only being there for three days.
I didn't even know where to eat my lunch.
Yeah.
It's one of those things.
Right.
Like, hey, fellas, do you eat your lunch at home?
Yeah.
Does the wife make your lunch?
Does everyone go out to lunch together?
Yeah.
What's the deal?
Yeah.
Well, with those prices down in the cafeteria, but I guess they got you in over.
Guys, where are you going?
Guys, wait up.
I had nothing, right?
Yeah.
Another writer comes in, who had obviously spoken to the first writer, goes to the table, reads it, and says, oh, man, you're not going to hand this in, are you?
It sucks.
It sucks.
And he throws it on the floor.
It's 4.30 in the morning.
And I'm like, this is my big sketch.
I'm dead.
And I had that kind of like going to cry, going to maybe crap my pants.
I want my dad to come pick me up.
You know, that horrible thing.
And something just reached back to the scruff of my neck, lifted me up,
pulled me over to my sketch.
I put the staple back in and put it on the pile and walked home.
And it was like cold.
It was like April.
So it hadn't quite locked into warm yet.
And a light rain was falling.
And I was just like...
Well, all I can do is try it.
Like, you know, maybe it didn't work out and whatever.
And I'm sure Ben will be fine.
He's really funny.
And, you know, right.
And I was just like, these guys are so awesome.
Dana Carvey is a fantastic comedian.
Yeah.
I mean, the power when you're working with him, you feel this jet engine of.
of talent coming off of them.
It so raises your game.
So everything's real estate.
The next morning, I got two hours sleep.
I walk in.
I want to die.
And I look to see where my sketch is.
And it's the second to last sketch.
which means by then, Lorne is eating food as he does the stage directions.
So it'd be like, ah, Wayne's World.
And so it kills your sketch.
Everybody wants to go home because it's 40 sketches.
Everybody has, you know, when you're like a guy on the show, you're sketched four.
And when you're a stupid new guy from Nowheresville, sketch 39.
So I just went, you know what, Myers, just don't give up.
Just go down swinging, dude.
Go down swinging.
Just do it up.
So we got to the sketch.
He goes, Wayne's World.
Lauren looks around.
He goes, do we really want to read it?
And I went into my hand.
I went, hell yeah.
That's a joke.
Yeah.
And then he looked up at me and sort of like, be ready.
You know, this table will kill you.
Right?
He said that?
He looked at me like that.
Okay.
And I went...
like that and i read it and it killed yeah it killed it killed and lauren got this delighted look on his face writers back there were like oh no it killed yeah and then it got in the show i had no idea what to do third show yeah it killed killed and that was the birth of the yeah the mike myers career and
I was on, my office was my sketch being on at 5 to 1, the last sketch.
So all of my sketches started at 5 to 1 and moved earlier in the show.
Because the ratings by 5 to 1 are absolutely nothing.
But I thought it played really well in the house.
But on Monday, because the crew is fantastic on Saturday Night Live.
They're the nicest people in the world.
They've seen everything.
They're the least jaded people in the world.
And they were like, wow, that sketch is great.
That Wayne's world.
Are you going to do another one?
I said, I don't know.
Should I?
Yeah.
You didn't hear people doing the Wayne's World song?
He goes, I was on the train and all these kids were doing the Wayne's World song.
I was like, what?
Are you kidding me?
And so then I was walking and Lauren said, you're going to do another world?
Already it was world?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Shortened?
Yeah.
Wayne's World?
Yeah, world.
You're going to do another world?
Should I?
Yeah.
I said, okay.
And it got in.
It got higher and higher in the show.
So he saw it as a hit.
He knew it.
I guess, but his cards are close to his chest.
Always.
Always.
Mike Myers, another very together performer.
It's interesting.
A lot of these guys that really succeeded at SNL are fairly together people.
This next one's from Chris Parnell.
This is from episode 539.
When you got fired, were you surprised that first time?
I was very surprised.
I was pretty devastated.
I'd never been fired from any job.
How was it handled?
My manager, Jimmy Miller, at the time called me.
Jimmy, big manager.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, Julie Darmody, then Wixon, is now kind of more my lady.
But it was such a big call that Jimmy called and said, man, I don't know what to tell you.
They're not bringing you back.
And I just parked the car and just sat there.
I don't think I cried.
I just was stunned.
I was just like... What was the reason?
No real reason.
No real reason.
The worst.
Yeah.
Lauren didn't talk to you?
No.
No, but when he hired me back, I went back in the 13th episode of what turned out to be my fourth season.
So you were out for how long?
I was out the first 12 episodes of season four.
Okay, so you get cut, and you've got to take that hit.
You don't know why.
Right.
And...
Why did they ask you back?
Well, you know, I heard from Will Ferrell almost immediately.
He said, look, I talked to Lorne because I think he and Catan actually went to bat for me.
And I think a number of the writers and people did.
There was this big outpouring of support.
Like, we don't know what's going on here.
And it felt very genuine.
It wasn't just like, you know, lip service.
And he said, Lorne, you know, it's kind of indicated the door's not completely shut.
So I was like, oh, okay.
So there was this kind of this emotional roller coaster of I would hear from Jimmy Miller, like,
well, Lauren's saying he still might bring you back.
Weird.
Yeah, it was weird.
It was hard, and I had already given up my place in New York, and I was living back in L.A., but I had all my... Were you doing movies and stuff by then, or not yet?
Or was SNL it, for the most part?
I mean, I was thinking, and I started, I was doing more TV stuff and the occasional movie thing.
Yeah.
You know, in commercials.
Right.
But all my stuff was in New York.
Right.
And I was living just here, waiting to hear.
Right.
But that's like a limbo.
It's not even waiting to hear.
Yeah, no, it was terrible.
Yeah, it was bad.
It's just, you're just waiting for Lauren to go, okay.
Right.
Well, and I finally said to Jimmy, I was like, look, man, I can't take this anymore.
So I don't want to hear about any maybes anymore.
If they want to hire me back, great.
Right.
I'm happy to go back.
Of course I want to go back.
And then finally one day, they brought me back.
And did Lorne talk to you?
He did.
He did.
And he said, you know, look, I made a mistake.
Really?
He really did.
What did you do?
You know, I was just so happy to be back there.
Did you get choked up?
I just got choked up.
I've invested a lot in the character.
So, like, for him to admit he's made a mistake.
I know.
It was a big deal.
It was a big deal for him.
And I appreciated it, you know, obviously.
It meant a lot.
And would you just say, well, I'm glad I'm back.
Yeah, you know.
And you did make a mistake.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Let's talk about that.
Yeah.
Let's talk about why you fucked up.
You didn't have that conversation.
I didn't.
No.
Go a little more into that mistake.
I want to know what the thinking was.
That would have been amazing.
Yeah.
Parnell is sort of an interesting guy to sit across from.
This is from John Mulaney, stand-up comedian, writer, and former SNL writer.
Great guy, great comic, and this is his Lorne Michaels story.
This is from episode 551.
My first year was great.
My first year was really fun.
I came back.
My second year is more like I thought I'd figured it out and got my ass kicked for the fall sort of.
Yeah.
Why?
I just was like, you know, figured I knew what I was doing.
So when I would get stuff cut or get Lauren would get mad at me about something, it was like I was suddenly spinning out like I didn't.
He got mad at you?
Well, I mean, just get frustrated with a sketch or something on bleachers.
Like, really?
You're going to open with that?
You know, that type of thing.
Yeah.
That was like, I had had a very nice beginning.
Yeah.
If there ever was a tough time, I'd say the beginning of my second season.
I just remember feeling like.
And then, what, that leveled off and you did two more years and you started to do on-camera stuff and what?
Yeah, that leveled off.
That also, I don't know why I blew that out of proportion.
That was like, you know, a few shows of feeling like... Do you feel like you know Lauren and you're close to him?
Close?
I don't know, but I've gotten to know him pretty well.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know how close.
You know, he's been...
I've talked to him a lot in the past couple years, I feel like.
Right.
With the TV show.
The TV show that he is producing.
Let's focus on that for a second.
It seemed to me, before you did the TV show, that the buzz was, you're going to be the update guy.
You were the heir apparent.
There are no heirs apparent in show business.
Fine.
You know what I'm saying.
I understand what you're saying, but having... But that was the word on the street.
Was that not the word that you got?
Uh...
I did some update features.
Right.
I entertain the idea that I might get it.
But word on the street versus what you hear at a place like that is different.
But what was Lauren saying to you during that time?
I mean, you weren't going to get fired from SNL.
You were writing.
You were starting to do stuff on camera.
You were developing a relationship with that guy.
What was he telling you?
What was he teaching you?
What did you think was going to happen for you?
I knew I was developing a lot as a writer, and I was made a producer on the show, and I knew I was doing very well there.
Honestly, I did not know where I stood in terms of that.
Performing?
Yeah, which is a very common thing there.
As I said, it was very, very friendly.
There was also still things that are cryptic and strange.
Did you want to do Update?
Sure, of course.
And was it ever offered to you?
It was not offered, and I...
uh it was not offered like do you want to do it right now right i think it was maybe a possibility right but i then did a special that you that what you saw in montreal then i recorded that in august or something for comedy central comedy central uh that special came out and i was a writer there and the special was you know it was small well reception but it got a nice reception so i was kind of like i think maybe i'll move on
That's interesting, you and Hannibal.
Yeah, Hannibal went to 30 Rock and then was gone.
But the decision was, I'm going to do stand-up.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I've had enough of this writing for SNL thing.
I miss it still, but yeah, I was ready to go.
Thank you.
Mullaney.
Go see him live if you can.
He's a funny stand-up.
This next one is a beautiful episode.
I had a very emotional experience listening to Jenny Slate talk about her SNL experience and her Lauren experience.
This is from episode 558.
And then they were like, Lauren wants you to come back to meet with him.
But it doesn't mean that you're hired.
And don't expect anything.
And you'll probably wait for like three hours to see him and just like sit there.
And I was like, oh, OK.
This is so psycho.
Yeah.
I went through this.
Yeah.
OK.
So, yeah.
So then I went there.
But then I didn't wait.
I just got there.
And Nassim was also there.
Nassim Pedrad.
And I waited for like 10 minutes.
And then I went in there.
And he asked me.
Who was in the room?
Lauren.
Just Lauren.
Yeah, in his office.
And he was like, where are you from?
And I said, Massachusetts.
And he was like, have you worked with wigs a lot before?
And I thought he meant Kristen Wiig.
And I was like, I've never even met her, but I really admire her.
And he was like, no wigs.
And I was like, oh.
this sucks like i was like yeah um but i just kept telling myself like he's just a man he's just a man like you have so much life in front of you that's all that matters don't worry about it and so i was like oh dur and i remember saying like oh no sorry i don't know no yeah i've worked with like wigs in my one person show but i don't like
do that a lot I don't have any with me yeah I was like I'm you know here and there but I would be very comfortable with them and then he was like well I think you'd be a great addition to the show and we're gonna get you an office and I was like so I wanted him to say it so I was like so I'm gonna be on Saturday Night Live and he was like
Yeah.
And I was like, that's so great.
And I was like, I know you've probably you've seen this like happen a million times before where people are like, I can't believe it.
But this is my childhood dream.
And I'm so excited.
And he was like, OK, well, don't tell anybody because, you know, we haven't announced it yet.
And I was like, can I tell my nanas?
And then he laughed and he was like, how old are your nanas?
And I was like, they're this age.
And then.
And he laughed and I was like, can I give you a hug?
And he was like, sure.
And then we hugged and I went outside and Seth was waiting there and he was like, well, what did he say?
And I said, he said, I'm going to be on the show.
And Seth was like, whoa, that doesn't really happen.
And I said, he said I could have an office and stuff.
And then Seth was like, let's try and go find John Mulaney.
So we went into the offices and because I knew John and.
We couldn't find him.
And then I was like, well, I'm going to go.
And then I went outside and I went into the courtyard of Rockefeller Center.
Whoops, I'm getting emotional.
Okay.
I called my parents and I said, I'm going to be on Saturday Night Live.
And it was really exciting.
Yeah.
That's great.
Yeah.
Where are my Kleenexes?
I don't need any.
Okay.
I never cry when I just, you know what?
It is a beautiful story.
And sometimes I forget that.
Yeah.
Now I'm crying.
Oh.
I had Kleenex.
Oh.
Because it is like cool to achieve something that you've always wanted and to do it kind of on your terms.
Yeah.
To call my parents like...
They were just so stunned.
Like we were all so stunned.
Just I came from like this fucking haunted house with these two artists with the woods on fire and just like had this one dream and went to college and didn't become an asshole and, you know, did that.
And it didn't.
I was there for just the right amount of time, but, you know, to just call them and make that phone call, honestly, I forget about that.
Right.
And it was really, really meaningful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
It's a great story.
Yeah, it is.
But it didn't end well or it did?
Well, looking back on it, it ended exactly as it should have ended.
That's the best way to look back on anything.
Yeah.
I mean, it was like really hurt my feelings when I got fired.
What was the story?
I don't know.
I don't know why I got fired.
But what did you do?
I think, I mean, well, first of all, obviously, my first episode was like a disaster because I said fuck, and I'm over talking about that.
That's what happened.
I said fuck by mistake in a sketch that I wrote.
And then what really sucked about that was that I became the girl that made a mistake when until then, I just kind of lived my life my own way, and I was a stand-up.
You can say fuck.
And you know what?
You can say fuck.
And also, who gives a shit?
I don't feel bad about it, and I'm not sorry.
I'm only sorry for how I treated myself.
You beat yourself up?
So much.
So bad.
After the first episode?
Yeah.
As Lauren said to me, and I don't think I'll ever forget it, he was like, it's okay.
But like...
He was like, I'm going to pull you back now because I don't want this to be the first thing that everyone writes about you, you know, that you said fuck, which, by the way, it was.
And I think it's kind of over now.
But he was like, it takes a long time, at least three years, to become comfortable in the top of a skyscraper, in a skyscraper in the middle of New York City, in the middle of the night on live TV.
Yeah.
And I just remember being like, yeah, I guess that is what it is.
That is what we're doing here.
It's like fucking psycho.
Yeah.
Psycho job.
Oh, Jenny Slate.
Yeah.
What a fucking sweetheart.
Is that all right to say?
I think so.
Now, here's a little bit of a change of pace.
This is me and Harry Shearer from episode 578.
And Harry doesn't pull any punches.
Straight shooter, that Shearer.
This is his Lauren story.
Okay, you're back in New York.
You're doing the show.
What happened?
What the hell went so wrong?
Um...
Some games started being played.
I wasn't, although I was hired as a member of the cast, I did not appear in the opening credits.
We wanted to keep that Catholic, I guess.
And so three weeks in, I'm writing stuff every week.
Nothing gets on.
And Al is not writing for me.
He's writing for Al.
So, you know, Al's the only one who knows me.
So Bill Murray and I go to a Knicks game.
and because he's a friendly guy yeah and now we're walking back from the from madison square garden uh to 30 rock yeah so we're rocking about the 30 40 blocks and we have a chance to talk and i say billy what's going on it feels like uh something very strange is going on here he says well you know
We're, we're, we're members of this cast and we're looking at this guy and this new guy who comes in and writing stuff for himself.
And we're going, why is he doing that?
I said, cause I was hired as a writer performer.
He said, well, Lauren didn't tell us that.
He just said he was hiring you as a writer.
So that's what he told the rest of the cast.
And I'm not in the credits.
Right.
So I've signed a deal to be something that nobody else knows at the show.
Is it on paper that you're a writer-performer?
Yeah.
Of course it is.
Of course it is.
So he's fucking with you.
Yeah.
From the get-go.
From the jump.
So, and then Billy tells me about how rough a time he had when he started.
He says, you know, it'll get better.
So he's trying to be helpful.
Um, you like him.
I like Billy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've always liked him.
And he was, he's, he's been a mensch when I've needed him a couple of times.
So that's good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Even though he doesn't know what the word mensch means cause he's Catholic, but you know, he knows, he knows.
No, he's, he's a good guy.
Um, and it just goes on like this.
And, and, uh, uh,
Paul Schaefer and I write a piece, a really abstruse piece called Backer's Audition on a week that Bea Arthur is the guest host.
And the premise is it's a Backer's Audition for a Broadway rock musical about Charles Manson and one of the people he killed, Hollywood hairdresser Jay Sebring.
And it's called Two Men.
And Paul and I write the lyrics and music, and we're the guys presenting the show.
B is the hostess with a room full of angels who might invest in it, and all the cast are singing.
And at the party, so-called, I prefer to think of it as something more funereal, but that follows every show.
Lorne says from his throne on high, the moment at the end of that sketch, that's the moment you became a star.
I wasn't on the air for the next four weeks.
I mean, it's just a little game going on.
One more story.
Late in the season.
And I'm saying to myself, I'm smart.
I can figure this guy out.
I can play this game.
I can game him.
Yeah.
So every week I come in with a new strategy that I've devised, and every week it just fails because he's- But in your mind, it's you and Lorne.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, he's told me that.
Yeah.
I don't hire people like you.
Yeah.
Plus-
He's hired, I produced a TV show.
I produced this pilot with Rob Reiner, the TV show where Spinal Tap came from.
Yeah.
I've done it.
I know how to do this.
Right.
His mistake to hire somebody who knows how to produce television shows.
Right.
Because I'm looking at this thing and going, you know, so much time and effort is wasted.
The other thing I did is I read Max Liebman's book.
Max Liebman had produced a television show.
Tell me if this format sounds familiar.
90 minutes, Saturday night, comedy sketches from Studio 8H in New York City with musical numbers in between, live.
Yeah.
On NBC.
Yeah, it sounds familiar.
Wow.
Yeah.
How did anybody think of that?
Yeah.
It was called Your Show of Shows that starred Sid Caesar and Carl Reiner.
It had been done in the 50s.
Yeah.
And Max Liebman was the producer and he wrote a book about it.
Uh-huh.
They started writing their sketches first thing Monday morning.
Oh, by the way, the writing staff included Mel Brooks and Neil Simon and Woody Allen.
That was a help.
Hell of a show.
Yeah, hell of a show.
They started writing that show first thing Monday morning.
End of Monday, they got a script.
Rest of the week, that's the show they rehearse.
They learn it.
Saturday Night Live, you're a sucker if you even come in on Monday.
Writing begins late night, Tuesday night.
It's a dorm kind of thing.
It's kind of a dorm vibe.
Don't you like a dorm vibe?
So it's like I'd come in at 10 Tuesday evening.
People would look at me like I was nuts.
Too early.
You're supposed to be staying up.
It's Saturday Night Live.
Readthrough isn't until Wednesday afternoon because people have to sleep most of Wednesday because they were up all night.
Camera blocking starts Thursday, Friday.
There's no time to rehearse.
And by the way, Lorne puts into production a third more sketches than are going to survive.
And doesn't choose which ones are going to survive until 1120 Saturday night.
So there's no commitment all the way down the line.
People don't bother to learn lines because why would you for a sketch that there's a one in three chance won't make air.
And by the way, you know, the best way to make sure that nobody second guesses you or argues with you is to not make decisions until.
Panic sets in at 1120.
And what the fuck are we doing?
What show?
Why is the show we're doing tonight?
Yeah.
And, you know, the crew was waiting.
They have to figure out what camera blocking to do.
Right.
Because they've camera blocked everything.
And they've, you know, now have to figure out all these logistical things in the space of... I wonder if he still does it like that.
I don't know.
I mean, the crew did an amazing job every week just pulling that off.
Because this was like a crazy time.
Like, I mean... This was Coke time, as they say.
Yeah.
So the last story was...
Lorne invites me to take a sauna with him.
This is a good story already.
I figure, fuck, okay, you're on.
We're going to do a schvitz.
We're going to have a schvitz.
With the emperor.
Like the Jews do.
Yeah.
And he says, you know, what's on your mind?
So you're in the schvitz talking.
I'm in the schvitz talking.
And I say, you know, there's a sketch this week.
Featuring Sadat, who was then the president of Egypt.
Yeah.
And I said, you know, you've seen this piece from the TV show, the show that I produced.
Billy Crystal did Menachem Begin and I did Unmar Sadat.
And we were doing a light beer commercial arguing about whether the beer was better because it was, you know, less filling or more yellow.
Right.
And you've seen that piece.
You know, I do a great Sadat.
Garrett Morris is doing it.
Yeah.
Because he's dark skinned and Sadat is about eight shades lighter than him anyway.
But, you know, it just stuff like that drives me crazy.
He said, I'll take care of that.
I'll make a phone call.
I'll call Al.
Al was at that point head writer.
This is Friday night.
So I walk in Saturday at noon.
It never happened.
And the denouement of it is, so I'm sitting, I'm an extra in this sketch.
And I'm waiting with Garrett to go on 20 seconds before live air.
And he turns to me, he says, you do Sadat.
How does he sound again?
So not a good experience for you, that first round.
Ah!
Harry Shearer.
Definitely an opinionated voice in the world, but very funny.
Great guy.
I like him.
I get it.
I get it.
I get the edge.
When I was in New York City, I talked to Kenan Thompson on episode 601.
And we both talked about Lauren.
It was a fun talk.
Can you believe that he started out as a performer?
I mean, I knew it.
I guess I'd never seen it.
And I definitely had never seen the mustache.
It's bugging me out.
Because he's like a regular dude.
Yeah.
Who you could see kind of being like, oh, no, this is my party.
And like, you know, thanks for coming already.
Right.
Exactly.
You're like, this is like, it's already.
Thanks for coming.
Like all of my awesome friends are here and welcome.
Have you been to a party at his house or anything?
No.
We went to a Yankee game or something.
They had me meet him at his house.
It was just his apartment.
It was crazy.
It was a Central Park elevator up to its own floor.
The door of Paul Simon, we share it.
It goes to Paul Simon's house.
He lives right across the hall from Paul Simon?
Yeah.
That's crazy.
Just a couple old Jews up there with their own elevator.
A little kitchen door that they share.
They're buds.
Really cute.
That's sweet.
So you just went to the game with him alone?
Yeah.
No, I was with a couple other people, but we've gone to several over the years.
Well, hopefully I'll meet him again.
Yeah, you'll have your day.
That was Kenan Thompson and me.
Kenan's been on the show forever.
He's like one of the anchors.
Been there forever.
I don't know if you listened to my episode with director Penelope Spears.
She was never on SNL, but she still had some really good Lauren stories.
And this is from episode 615 of WTF.
Director Penelope Spears.
We were close enough, I think, over the years.
From back in the day?
Yeah, yeah.
And he just calls and goes, yeah, Penelope.
Yeah, Penelope.
You know, this doesn't really matter, but we're doing a movie.
And if you don't mind, we can just go out to Mr. Child's after, but we talk about it.
You know what I'm saying?
This is a Lauren.
Lauren is like, he only cares about where you're going to eat.
Nothing else matters.
Well, you know, we can go to Spago if you want.
But forget the movies.
Let's go and eat.
So you go to Mr. Chow's to talk about Wayne's World?
Something like that.
So he was here?
He came out to meet with you?
Oh, yeah.
He had that company Broadway video that was at Paramount and in New York.
And so, yeah.
Do you like him?
Do I like Lorne?
Yeah.
I have a lot.
You know, everybody love hates Lorne.
No one admits to hating Lorne.
Not on my show.
Well, what do I have to lose at this point?
He got pissed at me because I wouldn't do Ladies Man.
So I didn't do that movie and he kind of got pissed because he called me like four times.
And they never called me after that.
You know, I probably should have done it.
But that was after Wayne's World.
You know, Lauren...
I think Lorne is one of those genius, crazy people.
Yeah.
Okay?
Yeah.
And those are the people in my mind that changed the world.
Yeah.
And I have a huge respect for him, just as I do for Mike Myers and all the other brilliant comedians I've worked with.
He's a freaky dude.
Lorne is a freaky dude.
I mean, he laughs at the weirdest stuff.
Yeah.
I mean, come on.
Like what?
You know, all the bees and the gigantic, you know, corn guys with those green giant guys.
I mean, where the hell does that come from?
You know, it's like, whoa.
But were you there for the first season taping?
Were there like the premiere taping?
Did you go to New York for that?
No, I wasn't there for that.
For any of that, huh?
All right.
So, okay.
So he takes you to Mr. Chow's and he says you want to direct Wayne's World.
Is that what you're telling me?
Well, mostly the meetings were at Paramount, you know, and I was actually on... I could either get one of two jobs.
I could either do a documentary about Patton State Hospital for the Criminally Insane or get the gig to do my first studio movie, and it was my seventh movie, mind you, at Paramount Pictures.
I was not in the director's guild or anything, and I remember they had wall phones at that point, you know, and I remember being...
in the in the uh mental hospital over there and i thought excuse me guys i think i'm gonna go make a call so i go and i use the wall phone and i call up my agent while you're shooting the mental no i didn't shoot i was trying to you were talking about doing the movie you know like i said i was going to do either one or the other and i call up my agent i'm like did i get the gig and he goes you got the gig so i'm in this mental hospital
And the lady over there had just shown me around.
It's like, well, there's shit on the wall everywhere because when they go really nuts, they just smear shit everywhere.
So I either got to do the Crazy Hospital movie or Wayne's World.
And I'm not sure which one I did.
There you go.
Boom.
Boom.
That was Penelope Spears.
I love talking to her.
Been around, man.
Here's Fred Armisen talking about Lorne, filling my need to hear about Lorne Michaels, and this is from episode 636.
I will never stop asking him about the bands that he had on.
Like who?
The specials.
Yeah.
He put the specials on TV.
Yeah.
I think it's the best musical performance ever of anything.
Uh-huh.
And definitely of SNL.
Uh-huh.
And he put this.
What did they perform?
Ghost Town?
What did they?
Gangsters.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's the greatest thing ever.
I can't get enough of that.
And Devo.
Uh-huh.
And what do you ask him?
Like, what was it like?
Why?
Yeah.
How did you know?
Didn't he have a booker?
He had a booker, but I think he was trying to reflect what was going on in music at the time.
Talking Heads, too.
I think Devo, he explained to me, they had the same manager as Neil Young.
It was one of those things.
Right.
But then, Lorne has this ability to sort of sum up, in a couple of phrases, what the band was.
And I think with Devo, he was like, art schools.
He said something about art school, and I was like, okay.
He recognizes what all these bands were.
The B-52s, Talking Heads, all these bands that really...
inspired how I do comedy even, that kind of performance, straight to camera, costumes.
So that's interesting to me that your sense of what creative freedom could be
as a performer in in in the specific way it applies to you came from snl yes yes as a young person yes i remember david bowie did something where he had like a klaus nomi was his backup singer he had um like a a fake dog with a tv in his mouth just just visual things that immediately resonated with me and you were like what 15 something in there yeah
Yeah.
So when I see Lorne now, that's the guy I see.
I'm like, he had a connection to all of that.
So it's directly, you know.
Right.
But it's interesting that it wired your brain for who you are creatively, you know, specifically, you know, comedically and musically to a degree.
Without a doubt.
Isn't that something?
Without a doubt.
I just did a classic talk.
What do you know?
What do you know?
We both decided.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So then that sort of loads up the possibility for you to be on it as being like this mind-blowing thing.
Yeah.
SNL meant a lot to me always.
Always has.
Still does.
I still watch it.
I'm still connected to it.
I've always understood the language of it.
Even when I didn't agree with the host, I understood why they were the host.
Yeah.
Now, how long has it been since you've been on?
I was on, you know, I left in 2012.
You miss it?
Oh, no, 2013.
I finished in 2013.
It's only been a couple years.
I'm always around it.
Was it your choice?
Yeah.
It sure was.
Hard choice to make.
But you're still in the family.
Yeah.
I remember Amy Poehler telling me, she's like, you'll feel when it's time to go.
Yeah.
And she said, don't worry.
Lauren will always be in your life.
SNL will be in your life.
Don't worry.
Because that's what I was worried about.
I was like, I want to, this is, you know, I love being around it.
And yeah, and you were like, well, let's work up to that.
So...
They send the tape.
Oh, yes.
They send a tape and then they bring me into audition.
And I went to UCB, went up and did my... The original UCB with the shitty, the weird seats?
Yes.
But you walked in and you kind of had to walk by the stage.
Like when you walked in, the stage was on the right and you had to make... That's the one.
Yeah.
Okay.
So who else is on the night?
So this is where your audition is going to be.
Yeah.
And everyone else who auditioned was groups, like improv groups.
Interesting.
And then I went up and I did that.
And then a while later, maybe a month later, two months later, they asked me to come back and do it at the studio.
Oh, right.
Camera audition.
Yeah, they flew me to... And I was already like in heaven.
I was like, I can't believe this is happening.
It was just for Marcy at UCB or Lauren came?
Oh, Lauren came.
Tina Fey came too.
She was the head writer?
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
And then...
She was head writer.
There was a couple of head writers at the time.
And then when I met Lauren, I was like, you knew George Harrison.
You said that to him at UCB?
Yeah.
And then I asked him, and then this is a very typical Lauren thing to say, but I asked, I was like,
Just this conversation, like, so are you seeing a lot of people, meaning, you know, auditioners?
And he answered, no.
Which is a very honest, like, you know, you would think the answer would be like, oh, yeah.
But he was very like, no, we are not.
So when you said you knew George Harrison, you sort of approached him with an intensity and a sort of left field question because it was what was compelling to you.
How did he respond to that?
Yeah.
I mean, can you imagine someone who knew George Harrison?
Yeah.
That was a great talk with Fred Armisen.
If you haven't listened to that one, I would.
It sort of made me get a better sense of who he is.
It's not easy.
It's not easy with Fred.
And this last one's Michaela Watkins.
This is from episode 642.
And she actually made me cry talking about her experience with SNL and Lorne Michaels.
I like Lorne a lot.
I respect him, but I didn't want to be... Here's the thing.
I didn't want to... I thought our relationship would happen organically.
So I never pushed one with him.
I never kissed ass.
And I was really intimidated by him, but I felt like over time, I'm going to get to know him as a person and he'll get to know me as a person.
And I trusted that that would happen.
So I don't think... I never kissed...
ass right i never uh seeked people out and every once in a while you know one of the cast members like you should go thank lauren go say hi to lauren you know make sure you stop by or maybe not the cast but sometimes the other producers like you should go say hi to lauren and i'd walk up to his table be like hi and he's like hello and i'm like how are you doing are you having a good time i'm like yeah i am i'm really happy to be here i like your tie okay okay i'll talk i'll talk to you later okay goodbye
So the real reason why you didn't necessarily kiss ass is that, you know.
I wasn't good at it.
And also, like Bill Hader said, you know, the fact that you're going to go do this movie and he's letting you off to go do this movie or whatever.
Which movie?
It was Backup Plan.
And he said, you should thank Lorne because, you know, I one time didn't.
And I could tell, I don't know, maybe it bothered him.
I don't know.
He didn't know, you know, but he was just like, maybe you want to, you know.
And I just was walking down the hall and you sometimes see him coming.
And every part of me is like, go the other way.
Just turn.
Turn on your heels.
Go run.
Move.
But I was like, no, I'm going to.
I'm going to take Bill's advice.
I'm going to go thank him, you know, and, and, and by the way, Bill is incredibly sweet.
I mean, he didn't have to, people don't usually give advice there.
It was really nice of him too.
So, so I, and I know it was coming from a nice place, but I, I went over to, uh, Lauren and it was without any like, um,
you know warming into a conversation I was like hi Lauren I just want to say thank you so much for letting me do this movie I am really excited to go do this and you're just very nice and also I do is that you do you have a lot of shirts like that I like that one it's very nice on your body okay and he just kind of looked at me and he went okay like just okay
And I was like, this guy hates me.
And he never, like I said, I never had that one-on-one where I sit down at his office and he gets to know me as me.
So it's just, I could never, I always misfired every time I talked to the guy.
Yeah.
So what happened?
So then, so I was back in my apartment thinking it'd be nice not to be new.
Right.
You know, just to come back with a little more relaxed and not have to be the best version of myself 24-7.
And then I found out that, I think Casey called me and she's like...
I said, was your contract renewed?
And I was like, no, I mean, I haven't heard yet.
No, why?
She goes, everybody's contracts were renewed.
I was like, oh, that's weird.
So then I made the necessary calls.
And they said, they told my manager, of course we're going to renew Michaela.
We're just seeing how things are going to move around.
But of course we are.
We love her.
We're going to.
And then like a month later, I just...
I thought I would, God, I just remembered this.
I thought, well, maybe if I talk to Lorne, like show him I'm a person and not this creeper that's like every time I see him, you know, starts sweating profusely and talks really fast.
Maybe if I just tell him why this, why I feel like I should come back and why this is important to me and how happy I am to be there.
Maybe I haven't.
maybe i haven't told him that maybe he actually maybe maybe he just needs to hear maybe doesn't maybe he thinks oh she's maybe maybe he thinks i have better things to do maybe he thinks you know i don't know i don't know what he thinks truth is he probably doesn't think anything he thinks like how can i you know she's how old um
Um, but, uh, so I called him and had, uh, a one way conversation where I just, you know, everything I'd rehearsed, I said in a really stilted, horrible way.
And he got on the phone, he got on the phone and, and he said that, thank you so much.
I will consider all those things.
So he knew exactly what you were calling.
Yeah.
And so, and I was just like, consider, okay, this is not going to go my way.
This isn't going to go my way.
I just knew it.
And then my friend was visiting and I felt it go away.
Like for a while, I think he really was, everybody said that he was really torn.
Yeah.
when they when they let me go but um but i i felt it you know just in the atmosphere i felt it move away from me at some point and i hadn't talked to anybody it'd been like a couple weeks later you know and i just i looked at my friend i go it's gone it went away that's a that is like a moment you have in a relationship as well totally like they just fell out of love with me yeah yeah they found a shinier object um
And I was so sad, but I was, I was, I was really sad because I just, there's this thing where you don't know why, you know?
And I was like, did I say something?
Did I do?
It's so horrible.
You want to blame yourself.
Well, because, you know, who knows?
I joke, maybe I said something that got, people misinterpret me constantly because I have a joke in my head, but it doesn't come out of my mouth the right way.
And maybe that happened or something.
And then I heard, maybe it was on your show, I heard Andy Samberg, I think, talking about Lorne likes to hire people he'd want to go on a road trip with.
It was something like that.
Like he could imagine that he'd be happy to be on a cross-country road trip with.
And I heard it on your show, and it was like, you know, years later, of course.
And I heard it, I was like...
And totally over, fine, don't care.
My life has found where actually, which is another story, but I feel like things do happen for a reason.
And retroactively, I feel like I'm glad things went the way they did.
But at the time, you feel so much rejection.
And I was hearing that and I was like, I wonder if Lauren was like, I don't want to go on a road trip with that chick.
And that made me so...
Sad.
But you did that to yourself.
Because I'm great on a road trip.
No, I'm just kidding.
Because I'm really, I think I'm funny.
My friends think I'm funny.
No, no, no.
Like, there's nothing else you can do with that information.
But ultimately, I imagine you realize on some level that, you know, the machinations of that thing are fairly complicated.
You know, I don't think it's just some weird personal.
No, but you're going to.
Of course.
Of course.
Your GPS is going to be like, where's the.
Because you did good work.
Total shame.
You know, it wasn't like you tanked.
Right.
You're funny.
Yeah.
And, you know, it and and hopefully he's like, oh, I. Oops.
Shouldn't have let that.
You know, maybe like you hope your ex-boyfriend pines for you.
You know what?
If I ever get a chance to talk to him, which I've been beating around the bush for five or six years now.
It may never happen.
It may be the white whale.
How has it not happened?
I don't know.
I mean, maybe I haven't tried hard enough.
But I also don't know what I'm looking for.
At the time that I went in there, I was unformed.
I was chaotic.
I was probably looking for a parent.
There was a lot of things that were going on that would lead to me not getting the show.
But I'm not sure what I really want out of him now.
You know, I've talked to everybody about him.
I've told my story about auditioning a million times.
Everyone knows that he listens to this show.
But the worst thing that could happen is, you know, if he gives a shit at all, the worst thing that could happen if I interview him is nothing.
Like, you know, like if I sort of remember you coming in, but not really.
Oh, my God.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
So, you know, there's part of it that... But I'd also like to interview him for the scope of, you know, his career.
I mean, I would give him a great interview, but I do have these... And that is the truth of it.
And I think that's why I felt sad if, like, this guy doesn't want to be on a road trip with me, which we don't know.
Maybe he can't wait to get on it.
Maybe he's going to call me and say, let's... Let's go.
We're going up the coast.
We're doing the Dakotas.
Ha, ha, ha.
But he is, I have such respect for him and he tells such a great story.
And when I watch him, you know, there at work and I observe him and I just see how he handles things, I am enamored with him a little bit.
And so, you know, the truth is like, I was so shocked and sad sort of, but I didn't allow myself to feel sad because I was like, well, I was happy I got to go.
You know, I was in this real like gratitude place
Well, I am a huge fan.
Oh, thank you.
Likewise.
And this is a... No, are you... I couldn't love you more right now.
Ugh.
I don't even know why.
Why are you crying?
I don't know.
Maybe it's my own shit.
But thank you for talking to me.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Okay, pretty sweet.
There are some Lorne stories for you.
That's it for now.
There might be more someday.
And don't forget to listen to episode 653 of WTF for the full Lorne Michaels episode.
I think if you listen to Lorne Michaels episode, I definitely got some closure.
Got to know him a little bit.
And I never thought I would say this.
I like the guy.
And I was mostly wrong about him.
Bye.