BONUS What Makes Marc Laugh?
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Guest:All right.
Guest:What's the big idea, Brendan?
Guest:Well, I thought it was very interesting, and obviously I was not alone.
Guest:There were other people who heard what you said and reacted accordingly.
Guest:I think there was a lot of interest around you saying that you were watching The Office while you were up in Vancouver, but then even more interest in the fact that you...
Guest:You know, we're very honest about how you responded to the show, which got you talking about how you respond to situation comedies in general.
Guest:First of all, I want to hear you talk about that a little more.
Guest:I liked what you were saying, and I want to hear your explanation about it a little more.
Marc:Okay, well, so I have a lot of time, and I know binge-watching is a thing, and I've definitely binge-watched things in the past before it was even that easy.
Marc:I remember when we were doing Break Room Live, I watched the entire Wire.
Marc:Yeah, once things were on DVD, you could do that.
Marc:Was it DVD?
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:Was it HBO?
Marc:Would I have to be doing the DVDs?
Guest:Oh, totally.
Marc:Yeah, there was no streaming yet.
Marc:Okay, so yeah, clearly we were doing a show for four people.
Marc:We were proving there was no streaming yet every day.
Marc:But so I can do that.
Marc:But this was one of those things where I realized, like, I don't think I'd ever really watched...
Marc:You know, like a full episode with any context of The Office.
Marc:And it was the same with Seinfeld.
Marc:And it's the same with shows like Arrested Development, Community, Parks and Rec, all of these sort of, you know, big modern sitcoms.
Marc:I just, I somehow miss them.
Marc:And I know why I missed a lot of them because I was out working and it wasn't part of my life.
Marc:I'm reminded by Kit with that kind of stuff.
Marc:It's like most people go home and they watch TV, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was not my life.
Marc:So I did the Seinfeld thing when I had to interview Jerry.
Marc:I watched a few episodes, and I tried to sort of watch that from the beginning.
Marc:But it's just annoying.
Marc:It's like it's the same show over and over again.
Marc:In The Office, I've been forcing myself to watch because I do get pretty good laughs.
Marc:And I think that when Carell's character sort of—
Marc:it's like a deeper character than, than it lets on, uh, you know, come like season three, his character gets a little more depth to it, but you get sort of involved with, uh, with, uh, you know, the relationships in the office, but, but I, I just, that cringe comedy, which is what it is in a lot of ways.
Marc:I, I, I just find it irritating, uh, after a while.
Marc:And, and I don't, I lose interest in,
Marc:It's happened with many things.
Marc:I can't remember the last comedy series that I had to watch and get all the way through.
Marc:I was thinking about maybe Eastbound and Down.
Marc:I felt kind of compelled to watch all of that.
Marc:Did you watch the Vice Principals?
Marc:I did.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, and I felt like I had to watch all of that, too.
Marc:And I tried to write just gemstones, but I just, I didn't care.
Marc:I didn't care about season two or three of Better Call Saul.
Marc:I don't think that's a comedy.
Marc:But...
Marc:I mean, maybe something that has to do with waiting.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But with The Office, it's like, I could stop right now and be fine.
Marc:And I think a lot of it has to do with, it all becomes very redundant.
Marc:And as a comic and as a writer, you know, okay, they're using, this is the device.
Marc:This is the thing today.
Marc:And I can't see past that sometimes.
Marc:But I did like...
Marc:the relationships that have real sort of emotional foundation.
Marc:And they kind of get a little more complex as the thing goes on.
Guest:Well, all of this that you're saying makes total sense.
Guest:And it's highlighting for me, again, what the bell that went off when you were saying this in the first place, because I'm hearing everything you're saying now.
Guest:I'm hearing everything you said when you spoke about this on the monologue.
Guest:And what I think is interesting...
Guest:and what I think probably a lot of people who perked up when you said this stuff find interesting, is that you are a comedian.
Guest:You're a very funny person.
Guest:A lot of people listening listen because they like your comedy and they like your style of humor and your mindset around comedy.
Guest:And I even, as a person who's now worked with you for 20 years, cannot honestly say I know what your...
Guest:favorite comedies are and i mean that in all senses like comedic film your favorite comedy tv your favorite comedy in terms of literature or anything like that like i know you like sam lip sight who's who's your friend yeah and i can
Guest:kind of make that make sense in my head as to why that works for you i know you know sometimes you bring up certain people like how kevin james makes you laugh and like definitely other stand-ups and that makes sense to me but they make me laugh more now than they used to sure but it's just funny to me that i don't think i could accurately
Guest:circle around something and be like if you're looking at watch tv with mark this is what you watch with him when you want something funny or if you want to take him to a funny movie here's what you take him to see and so i kind of wanted to drill down on this with you and see if you know it do you know what you think is funny
Marc:Sometimes.
Marc:I mean, like, in recent, you know, months or years, I really got a kick out of that dream scenario with Nicolas Cage.
Marc:I got a kick out of that other Nicolas Cage movie, too.
Marc:The unbearable, like, what is it?
Marc:Weight of Amazing Talent.
Marc:Massive Talent.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I got a kick out of those.
Guest:OK, but like when some people want to have have a fun time, they're like, I'm like, I'm feeling down.
Guest:I'm feeling whatever.
Guest:I want to laugh.
Guest:And they go put on a movie they know will deliver for them or they go watch a TV show that they know will deliver for them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't know that you do that.
Guest:Uh, I like the in-laws, the original in-laws.
Marc:I'll watch that.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:Um, I'll watch that because I like, I like the way Alan Arkin handles comedy.
Marc:I'm also coming to it from a bit of a craft perspective, but I mean, but when I was a kid, you know, I remember being just shit crazy over that first season of SNL.
Marc:I mean, I must've been 13.
Marc:My parents would let me stay up and watch it.
Marc:I would go to school the next day and do pratfalls like Chevy chase.
Marc:You know, I was in, I was in,
Marc:And then I remember watching Monty Python's Flying Circus and thinking it was from another planet.
Marc:But funny?
Marc:You liked it?
Marc:I think I thought it was weird.
Marc:But I didn't really understand what I was watching.
Marc:I was young because it was around the same time.
Marc:And that would show up on PBS.
Marc:And then when I was a kid and my brother and I would listen to comedy records, there was definitely...
Marc:like a rotation of listening to that Class Clown album by George Carlin, the Cheech and Chong records we used to do.
Marc:We used to act them out.
Marc:We used to, you know, I'd listen to, I remember the first time I saw Richard Pryor live in concert when I was in high school and it had just come out was at 78 or something.
Marc:And my buddy Dave and I went to see it at a midnight movie and I lost my shit.
Marc:So, you know, there was that.
Marc:And then there was also, you know, the Woody Allen stuff had a profound impact on me.
Marc:Mostly, I think the first Woody Allen movie I ever saw was that the one that he didn't write or the one that he didn't direct.
Marc:It was played again, Sam.
Guest:Played again, Sam.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a bit in there that I'll never forget that to me was one of the funniest things.
Marc:It remains one of the funniest moments I can ever imagine where he's all excited about something.
Marc:I don't remember what.
Marc:And he's kind of skipping down the street.
Marc:And he pats some guy on the back who's sitting on this ledge over the water.
Marc:And the guy just falls.
Marc:And he keeps walking.
Marc:And he just keeps walking.
Marc:And I remember that stuff, man.
Guest:I can remember being at your house.
Guest:And I don't know why.
Guest:We were not watching it.
Guest:We were not like, we didn't turn it on to watch it.
Guest:But the movie Napoleon Dynamite was on.
Guest:And...
Guest:I've never seen you laugh as hard in my life at anything, like nothing that I've ever seen any comedian do.
Guest:And like you were literally doubled over on the couch, like holding your stomach laughing.
Guest:And it's this, it's this totally nondescript scene where he, he has like a job at a chicken farm and he's, he's like, uh,
Guest:you know, they're working in the chicken coops and they take lunch and they tell them, okay, for your lunch, you get a hard-boiled egg and some, you know, juice or something.
Guest:And they're sitting there, they're all, it's like Napoleon and his two friends and these farmers.
Guest:And they're eating these eggs, and this one farmer guy, like, points off in the, it's that, you know, weird kind of, uh, the way they've got the tableau of these people just standing there.
Guest:It already looks very awkward and stilted.
Guest:And this one farmer guy, he takes a bite of the egg, and then he points, like, off in the distance, and he goes, Over there, that creek man, I found a couple of socks on the arrowhead.
What?
Guest:He's just, like, mumbling.
Guest:And for some reason, I don't know why... I wouldn't be able to explain it to this day.
Guest:You found that to be the... Like, we had to rewind it.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Play it again over and over.
Guest:And I...
Guest:It's kind of, it just reminded me of that of you saying that moment in the Woody Allen thing is that I think you require things to fully take you by surprise.
Guest:Like you were just saying about a lot of things you're watching, you're noticing them for craft purposes and build structure and all this.
Guest:I think if something like fully surprises you, it's one of your, one of the great highlights of your life.
Marc:Oh, it's the best.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I like when a comic can do that, you know, too.
Marc:But I think that, like, well, it's interesting focusing in on those moments.
Marc:Because I remember when I was a kid, there's that moment with Jay Leno on Merv Griffin or something.
Marc:Yeah, you bring this up all the time.
Marc:Because, like, it just, to me, it was such an off-the-cuff thing.
Marc:Like, guys who are off-the-cuff and can really nail it, it still is an impressive thing to me.
Guest:Do you remember, if I say this to you, I wonder if you'll remember exactly what it was.
Guest:Do you remember what it was that Doug Benson did once that made you laugh?
Guest:Yes, of course.
Guest:Of course.
Yeah.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:This is like 30 years ago, and you remember it immediately.
Marc:It's the best.
Marc:We were at some party at Dave Rath's house, and I think Doug might have been living there too.
Marc:And it was a pool party, and there was a house, and Doug was making margaritas, and he was just turning, just hear the blender going on.
Marc:And at some point, the blender, I just hear it in the other room, and the blender goes on, and he goes, my hands!
Marc:And it's like...
Marc:it was just like, look, I'm capable of those moments now.
Marc:And I, and I, and I appreciate when they come out of my mouth.
Marc:But you know, it's so funny.
Guest:You brought that up to Doug a few times to the point where then one time you brought it up and he was like, you're making fun of me.
Guest:Aren't you?
Guest:When you say that you don't really mean you thought that was funny.
Guest:And you had to be like, no, I legitimately thought that was funny.
Marc:I remember forever.
Marc:I've been watching like, if I need like a good laugh now,
Marc:Like because of the reels, you know, I can go watch Don Rickles, you know, do things.
Marc:You know, and like there's that moment, you know, at that Clint Eastwood tribute where...
Marc:where, you know, he does a bunch of jokes.
Marc:He gets up, he's like, I'm here to celebrate Merv Griffin, whatever.
Marc:He does a bunch of jokes, but he's, he just is like, you know, it's been a lovely evening, you know, and he says, your son played bass.
Marc:We sat through that.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:I can watch that moment like nine times in a row.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you've brought that up about a few times where things happen kind of spontaneously on live shows.
Guest:You always bring up that thing of Gary Shandling when Dylan and Jack Nicholson were at the Grammys or something.
Marc:That's one of the greatest moments ever.
Marc:I don't even know.
Marc:I mean, I'd like to find it just to make sure I remember it properly.
Marc:It was just so, after that long...
Marc:fucking cringy thing would do with the two of them.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It was just so good.
Guest:And he what?
Guest:It was like when it was going back to him, he was the host or something.
Guest:Yeah, he was the host.
Guest:And they went back to him.
Marc:Yeah, well, it was after the break.
Marc:I mean, Dylan and Nicholson, Nicholson was high.
Marc:Dylan was like taking these long, awkward pauses, getting a Lifetime Achievement Award or something.
Marc:It went on too long.
Marc:It was just awkward as fuck.
Marc:And then they went to break and Shanling is hosting and they come back and Shanling goes, you know, Jack Nicholson and Bob Dylan were just talking backstage about how they wanted to do more television.
Marc:So good.
Marc:I love that show.
Guest:I watched all those shows.
Guest:Larry Sanders.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So that's interesting because, okay, I wanted you to think about all the other shows that are considered like classic sitcoms.
Guest:And I wondered if you ever really engage with them.
Guest:So like all in the family.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Well, I mean, that goes way back.
Marc:And, you know, so those like I can't say I've watched all of them, but I certainly watched them when I was a kid.
Marc:And I, you know, I certainly I definitely enjoyed it.
Marc:And I thought it was hilarious.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Barney Miller.
Marc:I loved it.
Marc:Love Barney Miller.
Marc:That was great because every episode that a new weirdo in the pen in the can, you know, and Landisberg always killed me.
Marc:I just, you know, there was something about that show I loved.
Marc:And I, Mary Tyler Moore, my mother would watch, you know, so, you know.
Guest:Well, because this is how I think a lot of people get their, develop their tastes around this stuff.
Guest:They get imprinted at a young age with whatever was on in the house.
Guest:And so, you know, for a lot of people now, that's something like The Office, that they're in their 30s and that show was on when they were 10.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I think that's true.
Marc:And I don't really have, it's not that I don't think The Office is funny.
Marc:It's very funny and I've had some pretty good laughs because it's kind of an amazing show.
Marc:How far are you into it?
Marc:Midway through season three.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, those are like the real good seasons, two and three.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They're kind of amazing because everybody is sort of becoming full characters and there's a lot of, you know, depth to it.
Marc:But like, there's something about his character, maybe because I'm a little self-centered, that it just becomes like relentless to the point where I'm annoyed.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, what about this, though?
Guest:Do you think that because what's interesting is you keep calling it cringe comedy.
Guest:And I think that that as a characterization of the original British office probably holds true.
Guest:If you watch that thing, you would say it's deliberately meant to make your skin crawl and be awkward.
Guest:And that's probably true with like the first, I don't know, four or five episodes of the American one, because they were really mimicked.
Guest:the british one right but what they started to develop around that second season was to to flesh out all the other characters so it's much more of an ensemble uh you could have you know michael's interplay with everyone create different dynamics that would shift episode to episode the focus right and i think a lot of why the reason the show got popular uh especially because it didn't do too well initially it didn't did not have great ratings when it started
Guest:But it grew an audience, especially over time, people rewatching and that.
Guest:And I think a lot of that is just catharsis.
Guest:People work in offices.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And they they're like, I see this every day and I can't joke about it.
Guest:I can't pick on the office asshole the way Jim does to Dwight the way they do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was it's it's a dynamic you don't have in your life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Nor are you going to seek it out.
Guest:And so you're stuck with the show on the basis of its own roots.
Guest:Like you just have to take it for what it is.
Marc:Just take it as comedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Without having that personal connection to it.
Marc:I liked the British office.
Marc:I liked it.
Marc:And I liked his... I think I watched most of Extras, and I definitely watched that one about the dead wife one.
Marc:Afterlife?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think he... Man, that scene, it choked me up now.
Marc:That scene in Afterlife, where there...
Marc:you know, talking to the two girls with the shaved heads and one of them has cancer, and the sister had shaved her head, you know, to make her sister comfortable.
Marc:And one of them asks about his wife, you know, and I can't remember, is she at home making him tea or whatever?
Marc:And it was because of that character, you know, he was so...
Marc:you know, heartbroken and bitter.
Marc:Like he, at that point in the series, he didn't really know how he was going to handle it because he wouldn't have handled it any other way.
Marc:But he says like, yeah, that's what she's doing.
Marc:Like it was, that thing, that fucking beat kills me.
Marc:We're going to watch that again and again.
Marc:It's not funny, but it's something.
Guest:No, but that is something I think you do seek out these authentic moments, even when they're trapped in artifice, right?
Guest:When there's, you know, and that's, there's another thing about that.
Guest:These things we're talking about in terms of comedies, you know, a sitcom is a situation comedy.
Guest:You're making fun of particular situations, whether it's people at a bar, people at this taxi stand, or, you know, the Korean War, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Take these situations and then you make a episodic comedy around it.
Guest:And I'm not sure that there's just on the very nature of that as a premise, you have to refill this situation over and over again.
Guest:It's not going to feel entirely authentic to you.
Marc:Well, yeah, because it's repetitive.
Marc:I mean, even like, you know, my mom watched MASH and I was around for that, I think, when I was a kid.
Marc:And, you know, and I liked it, you know, and I liked the movie, but it wasn't, I don't know that that's laugh out loud funny most of the time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was the other one you mentioned?
Marc:Taxi.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Taxi, you know, I watched a few.
Marc:I didn't care.
Marc:But that was, I don't know when that came out.
Marc:And Cheers, I didn't give a shit.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I just didn't, I don't know what I was doing.
Marc:Maybe I was young.
Guest:Well, it definitely, I mean, you were, Cheers, Taxi and Cheers, you were definitely starting out in comedy.
Guest:And it sounds like a lot of the, like, what...
Guest:Some kid who grows up and says, like, the funniest thing they ever saw in their life when they were kids was The Simpsons or Seinfeld or Friends or something like that.
Guest:It sounds like for you, that was stand-up.
Guest:Like, the thing that really blew your mind was Richard Pryor or the albums you were listening to.
Guest:But it was also, you know, I was out every night.
Guest:But I'm just saying even before you were at a point to go do this stuff, the things you would be in pursuit of was that kind of funny high.
Guest:I guess so.
Marc:Like you were chasing that high of comedy.
Marc:I liked movie comedies.
Marc:You know, I'm just trying to think of, you know, sort of what they are.
Guest:Well, I think the one that comes up all the time with you as something that you find funny and can watch, you know, repeatedly and still laugh at it is Tropic Thunder.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because that's real satire.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:They did something.
Guest:Again, it's like you don't have to worry about the artifice of it.
Guest:You know it's there to provoke.
Guest:It's there to make fun.
Guest:It's there to draw conclusions.
Guest:When he's holding up Steve Coogan's head.
Guest:It's very real.
Guest:He's touching the blood.
Guest:It's fucking very real.
Guest:You know what, I mean, I've watched the movie a million times, but you know what really helps deliver the goods on that is that everyone has whatever character they're playing down in a very funny comedic way.
Guest:Like even down to like Bill Hader playing that random executive.
Guest:McConaughey.
Guest:It's so close to the bone.
Guest:Oh, McConaughey's great.
Guest:It's like his best thing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's a fucking funny movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think that's also why I like dream scenario.
Marc:I think they were attempting to satirize something and they did a pretty good job at it.
Marc:Well, we'll loop back around to something you already said, and I bet it's why you liked it.
Marc:The Larry Sanders show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, because, and also because it was, you know, those characters were like, you know, Artie and the trifecta of Hank, Artie, and Larry.
Marc:I mean, they were all completely new characters somehow.
Marc:And they were sort of doing a take on something that had existed since the beginning of television as characters in a way.
Marc:And it was just, it was fucking crazy, dude.
Marc:It was crazy.
Marc:That whole thing is crazy.
Marc:And I, and I, and I love Gary's timing in general.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I loved him when he was on it's Gary Shandling show, but that is like so much a, you know, on the nose satire and a spoof, like a deconstruction of sitcoms of television.
Guest:The great thing about Larry Sanders was the,
Guest:it existed for its own sake.
Guest:It wasn't, it wasn't being in your face that this was a satire or a spoof.
Guest:It was like, you can take this as it is.
Guest:This is just a TV show that these, that, you know, is like Johnny Carson, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With the guests.
Marc:I mean, yeah, I was definitely into standup, but like, you know, as I got more into doing it,
Marc:My whole sort of sense of what it like, you know, the element of surprise, like, you know, with the tell or something like people who could turn phrase as well.
Marc:That was always good.
Marc:And I always enjoyed watching it.
Marc:But like, I don't know that for a long time, there was just so few people that that really made me laugh.
Marc:Like David Cross, you know, when he's like good, he's very funny.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:And I used to see him do crazy shit.
Marc:So, and what was the other thing we're talking about that was crazy?
Marc:Because like, it seems like there is something that I do like about, because I don't know why I didn't like restage development.
Marc:I tried over and over again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Same here.
Guest:And I, I mean, I, I have had to ask myself that I, here's the weird thing.
Guest:of what I watched of Arrested Real, I'm kind of like The Office with that, the way you are, where I stopped watching it and I was like, well, it's fine, I'm good.
Guest:But I didn't dislike what I watched.
Guest:I enjoyed it and I thought it was very funny.
Guest:But I had no, there was nowhere, there's nowhere in that show for me to get my hooks in any of those characters as though they were real people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I imagine Parks and Rec and, I don't know, Community seems to be its own thing.
Marc:But I just didn't, again, I just wasn't home.
Marc:And you've got to realize, too, back in the day, if you wanted to watch something, you had to tape it.
Marc:You know, so it wasn't going to happen, dude.
Guest:Yeah, but I do think the binging of some of these comedies does not help them.
Guest:Like, I think it's like, you know, stuffing an entire candy bar in your face.
Marc:Yeah, you got to wait.
Marc:Like, that's even with The Office.
Marc:I can imagine that waiting a week, you know, for the laughs would be great.
Marc:But like, when you start watching them back to back, you're like, oh my God.
Guest:I think when I was a kid, that was a very specific thing around something like The Simpsons was you knew, oh my God, that we're going to get to eight o'clock on Sunday night and we're going to watch this thing that's going to have a half hour of just fully concentrated jokes.
Guest:Pure.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Just like a dozen geniuses.
Marc:just cranking out jokes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I missed all that.
Marc:I missed it all.
Marc:I missed everything.
Marc:How, how badly did they fucking not miss how, how, what a waste of Patrice on the office.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:I wonder, I always wondered about that.
Guest:I always wondered if he was a problem or something and they had to get rid of him because it really does feel like he should have been Craig's part.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Uh, oddly, there's a couple of beats on Mr. Show.
Uh,
Marc:completely because of Dave, really, that just killed me.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That were just like, you know, because Cross, you know, before he became a thinker and was just a pure comedy guy, really had some serious balls.
Marc:It was just too funny.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, I was just talking about the, uh, the Titanica sketch with somebody, the, uh, the one with the, the, they're basically like a Metallica group and he's the little kid who was the fan and he's burned.
Marc:Oh, that was a Poussain, a Poussain sketch.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Dave's just wearing the, the, the hot dog looking.
Guest:thing that's his body yeah but the the thing that sells that it's all very funny and the joke the punch line is great try it again or whatever but there's this they're they're up you know that they had to get him somewhere where they're like all right your performance as this head is has to be in conjunction with these floppy arms right i don't know if he's pulling the triggers on them under that bed or whatever but but but there's a point where
Guest:i could tell what the conversation was was like can we do something else with the arms so it's not just flapping like what else can we do and they they do this thing with them where they're kind of rowboating them like the arms and the legs are going out at the same time and he he starts blowing like this feels good to cool himself off like he's going oh
Guest:as the little arms and legs are flopping.
Marc:Great, great comic actor, that guy.
Marc:I do, I tend to like a good, you know, a cutting satire.
Marc:It's so rare, you know?
Marc:Well, it's almost impossible for it to come out well.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Because everything moves so fast now?
Guest:That and it's the line between it being a cutting satire and being a limp spoof is so thin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, obviously he's one of my great comedic heroes, Mel Brooks.
Guest:This is in no way meant to disparage him.
Guest:But like some of those things later in his life are exactly that.
Guest:Like the one that's a Robin Hood spoof and the one that's a Dracula spoof.
Guest:It's just, there's no, it might as well be Mad Magazine.
Guest:There's no, there's not like Blazing Saddles where it was saying something about the time.
Guest:What year did Blazing Saddles come out?
Guest:1974.
Guest:So right around the time you were watching SNL, like, you know, SNL was a year later.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was like 11 or 12 for Blazing Saddles, 12, 13 for, uh, for SNL.
Marc:But I remember going to school, you know, at a Sandia prep school and, you know, doing these pratfalls because I just loved Chevy Chase, loved him, loved him.
Marc:I remember being very diswrought when Belushi died.
Marc:It was like my first year of college.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's funny that SNL winds up being this through line in people's lives for comedy.
Guest:But it was my first year of college when Farley died.
Guest:And it was the same thing.
Guest:People were bummed, man.
Guest:Like someone we knew died.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I had a picture of Belushi on my dorm room door.
Marc:Like a little picture of him.
Marc:Yeah, it was devastating.
Marc:But I wish I had The Simpsons, but I don't know if it's really my thing.
Marc:I can appreciate more stuff now because I guess the more I contract, naturally contract my ego to realize everything's not a threat somehow, it's still difficult.
Marc:But lately, I've been sort of amazed at just how much...
Marc:You know, I can get behind and like certain comics of a different generation.
Marc:You know, like, Bargatze, like, I know I talk about him a lot, but that guy just, like, it was like a turning point for me when I saw him in Michigan and before he was anybody.
Marc:You know, at that Grand Rapids Comedy Festival.
Marc:I'm like, how is nobody paying attention to this guy?
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I still enjoy watching him.
Marc:It's so funny, man.
Marc:I texted him a picture.
Marc:I don't even know the fucking golfer's name.
Marc:He's third in the world and he was on the set of the golf show.
Marc:So I texted Nate, who's a golfer, this picture of Colin Morikawa.
Marc:And you have me and him.
Marc:And Nate, he texted back, this is my happiest day.
Marc:He said, I never in a million years thought I would see this picture.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:I like funny people.
Marc:I really do like funny people.
Guest:Well, there's another thing to underline the whole conversation is I think for you, it is reliant almost first and foremost on the person.
Yeah.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Is the person funny?
Guest:And can you feel they're funny?
Guest:Can you not just understand it and acknowledge it and appreciate it?
Guest:Can you feel it you personally?
Guest:And I think that helps you enormously in whatever it is you're watching.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Marc:You know, it's like, you know, there are certain people I've had in here that like, you know, hater is, you know, there are certain guys that are just beyond.
Marc:You know, any understanding of funny.
Guest:Well, you always used to say that about Will Ferrell.
Marc:Oh, yeah, just sitting there waiting.
Guest:But do you feel that way about the movies that he made?
Guest:Like, do you like his Will Ferrell movies?
Marc:I think Will Ferrell in old school is...
Marc:Pretty fucking funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Dude, there's a couple of beats in that dumb movie that are just the best.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I mean, when he's running down the street naked, come on.
Guest:Although I will say the biggest laugh I got in that movie is Will Ferrell is involved, but he's the straight man in the joke, which is that that wedding singer is singing the total eclipse of the heart and he changes the words and he says, I fucking need you more.
Guest:And you just see Will Ferrell look at his new bride like, what was that?
Marc:That guy was a thing, that singer.
Marc:He was sort of on the scene.
Marc:The Dan Band.
Marc:What happened to that guy?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But no, that scene with Will Ferrell where he's drinking right out of the keg and he's like, when it hits your lips, oh my God.
Guest:I remember you were so excited to ask him.
Guest:We had him on Air America and it was just very brief.
Guest:Like he did, I think for Anchorman and he did a phone in and you, you know, we talked to him for whatever that was, eight minutes or however long you had on that.
Guest:And you were like, I just, I have to ask you that part in old school where you, you do the beer funnel and you say, when it hits your lips, it feels so good.
Guest:Was that ad libbed?
Guest:And he was like, yeah, that was ad libbed.
Guest:And you're like, I knew it.
Guest:It just, it came from a place of such deep appreciation of beer.
Marc:I think he's very funny in Anchorman.
Marc:I like those guys.
Marc:I mean, I really do.
Marc:And I'm also like, I mean, I like Ben Stiller when he does funny shit.
Marc:I mean, the thing about Mary, Ben Stiller's performance in there is like, it deserves all the credit in the world.
Guest:I think that's a funny movie, but I still do think with those Farrelly brothers, their funniest movie is Kingpin.
Guest:That's hilariously funny.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Woody Harrelson's great.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:See, I always appreciate that.
Marc:You really knocked something loose last night.
Yeah.
Guest:There's so many good things like that.
Guest:The guy says, hey, Roy, can you get sick from drinking piss?
Guest:And Roy's like, I think so.
Guest:I wouldn't do that.
Guest:Even if it's your own.
Marc:I don't really think they're my kind of movies, but I definitely have.
Marc:I think about those moments.
Guest:Well, what did you think of like the type of movies that were geared toward your age group of people when they came out?
Guest:Like Animal House or Airplane, things like that.
Marc:Uh, airplane like moved a little too quick for me.
Marc:And I, I felt like it was just a, you know, it was just a joke machine.
Marc:It was okay.
Marc:Uh, I, I like, uh, I like that guy.
Marc:Uh, what's his name?
Marc:Leslie Nelson.
Marc:Cause I had to interview him once on a comedy central.
Marc:I bring his fart machine.
Marc:He totally did.
Marc:And it's, it's pretty great.
Marc:It's pretty great.
Marc:I'll tell you something.
Marc:That fart scene in Dream scenario is one of the best comedy scenes in modern memory.
Guest:You really talked this movie up.
Guest:I still have not seen it, so I'll have to give it a shot.
Marc:But, yeah, I mean, Animal House was huge.
Marc:And I did think it was funny.
Marc:And I did love John Belushi in it.
Marc:And I thought, you know, and Diner, too, I remember liking a great deal.
Marc:Although that's more of a drama.
Guest:It's, you know, there's some funny people in it.
Marc:But Animal House was pretty crazy.
Marc:But it was great.
Marc:That's where everybody really started to love John Belushi.
Marc:But I remember that coming out.
Marc:Airplane was okay.
Marc:There's a couple of good beats in it, but it's not unlike The Simpsons in a way.
Marc:It's just a joke machine.
Marc:What else you got?
Marc:I don't remember everything.
Guest:Well, like I'm looking at this thing here, which is like the Rolling Stone magazine reader poll of the funniest movies of all time.
Guest:They rank Blazing Saddles number one, Airplane number two, Monty Python and the Holy Grail three, then Animal House.
Guest:Young Frankenstein.
Guest:Young Frankenstein, which I think is still a very funny movie, but again, it's like the humor of it is rooted in knowing those old horror movies and enjoying the spoof of them.
Marc:It's great Gene Wilder.
Marc:And I'm telling you, man, one of the funniest...
Marc:That's another one of those moments is that Gene Hackman scene.
Marc:That is one of the greatest things I've ever seen in my life.
Marc:Oh, you're an incredibly large man.
Marc:And he's giving him the soup and fucking boil, just like moving his bowl.
Yeah.
Guest:It was a great like classic comedy dynamic of like the silent guy and the crazy guy.
Marc:It's just, well, it's a blind guy and a monster.
Marc:But Boyle is pretty transcendent in that.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also to think that that was in an era when he was like playing much more disturbing people in most things he was in.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Taxi driver, hardcore Joe.
Marc:That's brutal, dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, he was very funny in that.
Marc:What were some of the other movies on that list at the top of the list?
Guest:Caddyshack, which I've never thought is as great as people.
Guest:That might be one of those things where I'm just not the right age for it.
Marc:Oddly, and maybe I'll give flack for this, but I mean, Ted Knight is a genius in that.
Marc:Oh, no, I don't think that's crazy at all.
Marc:I mean, he's like the funniest thing in that movie.
Guest:Yeah, I think you're saying nothing controversial about that.
Hmm.
Marc:like i like bill murray okay and chevy was okay but ted knight was just just great and rodney you know yeah but that's the thing it's like god it's like rodney's in an entirely different film like he's just off doing his own thing same with bill murray well i mean he was like that in back to school too really yeah i mean yeah but at least that one's entirely built around him yeah yeah yeah yeah
Marc:This is Spinal Tap.
Marc:That's a great movie.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:So funny.
Marc:Yeah, there's some amazing moments.
Marc:The moment where...
Marc:Where they lower the stonage.
Guest:Yeah, that's the greatest moment in the movie.
Guest:He's the best, dude.
Guest:Especially just because of how they all react to it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Again, satire.
Marc:That movie is a satire.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:Yeah, I like a few of those guest movies.
Guest:Now, here's one that's on this list.
Guest:It's on people's lists all the time.
Guest:And it's not a movie you like.
Guest:And I think this gets us all the way back around full circle to something here.
Guest:And I'll tell you why I think it does.
Guest:But it's The Big Lebowski.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, I'm coming around a little bit with that because I watch it over and over again because I love those guys.
Marc:And, you know, I want to understand, you know, why it's so amazing.
Marc:But I do think, and I like Jeff Bridges, you know, but I like it better now.
Marc:Well, what do you think?
Guest:Well, I think it's the same as The Office for you in this regard.
Guest:uh i think that the big lebowski as a uh concept the the concept of the film being this you know the hard-boiled detective story that's then transposed to this stoner from california throw that in the garbage that has nothing to do with the overall appeal of it through the generations and how it's still this beloved film even like if you think about it it bombed when it came out nobody watched it it was this follow-up to fargo so all the like
Guest:real cinema heads were watching expecting greatness from these, uh, you know, two genius brothers after doing Fargo and they got this and they thought, what the fuck is this?
Guest:This is a waste of time.
Guest:And, and even when they got the conceit that it's like a, a Chandler story, you know, the big sleep or something, but put through this, this,
Guest:you know, grinder, it didn't do much for them.
Guest:So why then did it connect with people who then found it on video and shared it with their friends and watched it over and over again?
Guest:I think it's because it's a movie about friends.
Guest:it's a friend's movie.
Guest:It's about the, you're like the one relationship in the movie that is true and unquestioning and completely without pretense is the dude and Walter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And,
Guest:so many people have that dynamic in their lives and i think just like you don't go to an office you don't have a completely fucking annoying person in your life that you just have to love no matter what like you love this person and they they're your best bud and they hang out with you and even though they drive you fucking crazy like i was saying this to chris lopresto last week i was like i think if mark had a walter in his life it would last for like 10 minutes he'd be like get the fuck
Marc:out of here when you're around me you're draining me yeah yeah well that's true my friends you know i think they have to be as much or a little more uh kind of uh depressed than me
Marc:Yeah, and the dude is the exact opposite of that.
Marc:Nothing can depress the dude.
Marc:Yeah, I did like it.
Marc:I do like it more, and there is funny stuff in there.
Marc:But to me, it's not laugh out loud funny.
Marc:I mean, I would take...
Marc:I don't, you know, like, I'm telling you, man, you know, Hail Caesar, George Clooney, George Clooney's character in Hail Caesar is hilarious.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:When he's sitting there in that centurion outfit at the communist meeting, oh, my God.
Yeah.
Marc:well he's the same in uh in oh brother i find him hilarious in that oh that's so funny the the ridiculous braggadocio of that guy yeah he's he's even like i just watched burn after reading again yeah he's great they're all great i think that's a misunderstood movie i've even grown to like uh malkovich
Guest:Yeah, well, you know, again, same thing with that movie.
Guest:That movie was their follow-up to No Country for Old Men.
Guest:So it came out, they made one of the greatest movies ever made, and then this thing comes out after and people are like, what are we doing here?
Guest:What happened to the serious guys who made the masterpiece?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that's funny because they've always gone back and forth.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I mean, Blood Simple and then Raising Arizona.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Miller's Crossing and then, I don't know.
Marc:Miller's Crossing and Hudsucker.
Marc:I watched Hudsucker.
Marc:It's a tough, tough movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, they've always kind of pointed out the mistakes in that.
Guest:It was a folly to make this big budget movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Barton Fink, arguably a comedy movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like some of them are.
Guest:If you say Barton Fink's a comedy, then so is A Serious Man.
Marc:A Serious Man is fucking great.
Marc:Dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That old rabbi at the end with doing the Jefferson Airplane lyrics.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Because he's been listening.
Marc:It's the fucking best.
Marc:That kid was so good.
Marc:Being stoned on your bar mitzvah?
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:The movie most made for you.
Marc:It's just like, it was very relatable.
Marc:I'm a little younger than them, I think.
Marc:But it was definitely their childhood.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, I think it's probably the most autobiographical thing they made.
Marc:And just the meetings with all those rabbis.
Marc:Like, it's just...
Marc:And that guy that we had on who's so funny somehow.
Marc:Was that guy's name, the big guy?
Guest:Yeah, Fred Melamed.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Cy Abelman.
Marc:Cy Abelman.
Marc:What a great name.
Marc:And Richard Kind is the weird fucking schizophrenic brother.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, yeah, I guess we got somewhere with this.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I mean, I hope you didn't find it like reductive or something or like we're treating you like some, you know, lab specimen.
Marc:No, because I do like, you know, I like bits and I like jokes, you know, and I think like sometimes a whole movie is a lot to ask for and a whole TV show is a lot to ask for, you know, and I tend to gravitate towards comedy.
Marc:That's either, you know, fully... Like, The In-Laws is a pretty ridiculous movie.
Marc:But you're just not going to see a comedic performance like those two guys, you know, again.
Marc:You know, it's just not... And I watched Wedding Crashers again recently.
Marc:I watched some of those Owen movies because I was working with them.
Marc:And, you know, it's...
Marc:It's not great, you know?
Marc:No, I never liked The Wedding Crashers.
Marc:And some of those movies, The Hangover, I think, has some funny moments.
Marc:I mean, it's pretty funny, the first one, right?
Guest:That's funny, too, because The Hangover is funny, and I can watch it over and over again, but it's almost all because of the structure and the artifice.
Guest:Like, you know, the humor comes out of how tightly wound the whole thing is and how it all winds up making sense as a construction.
Marc:Yeah, I definitely like movies and TV shows like, you know, I think that that have some meat, you know what I mean?
Marc:And I think I'm just by nature, not a sitcom guy, really.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Be just primarily because of the redundancy of the context.
Guest:Well, what were you thinking, though, when you were making your own sitcom?
Guest:We've talked about this this whole time, and we did not bring up the fact that you made a sitcom, and we're on it for four years.
Marc:All I was thinking was that this was something that I was supposed to do and needed to do, a show based around me and my life.
Marc:I took that old model of what we were all sort of gunning for back in the 80s where you do a show based around you.
Marc:So I thought, well, I'm a podcaster.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:It would be a nice way to rotate celebrities through, and then I'll just deal with my real life.
Marc:And I don't know if it was successful.
Marc:I mean, there's no indication that it was.
Marc:Just Brad Pitt.
Marc:That is a pretty leading indicator that it was successful.
Marc:He loved Dave Anthony.
Marc:Just loved him.
Marc:Mostly, I think.
Marc:And I think it got him through a tough time at some point in his life.
Marc:But yeah, I mean, I think we made mistakes on that show.
Marc:I wanted it to be... Because, you know, we'd all done... Everyone had done shows based on themselves.
Marc:And I don't think I was as attentive to the writing as I could have been.
Marc:And it might have been better.
Marc:And I really think I drew so much from my own life to the point where, you know, it was probably a little cringy.
Marc:But...
Marc:But, yeah, I mean, that was just sort of like I thought that I had a very interesting take on a comic-driven show because there were no podcasts yet.
Marc:And it was a very specific thing, and it was a real thing.
Guest:Well, what's interesting, though, is that you departed from your own life in that last season.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think...
Guest:that last season actually kind of reframed the first three seasons.
Guest:Like it worked to kind of pull it in the direction of something that was more a story with a beginning, middle and end rather than episodic TV that was just refilled.
Marc:That was the reason I did it.
Marc:It's like, there was no, like to me, it was like, we could have made that show forever.
Marc:It didn't cost them that much and they would have kept doing it.
Marc:But it was like, why?
Marc:Why do we just got to keep refilling this thing?
Marc:I'm going to run out of life, number one, and let's take some chances.
Marc:Let's do something that's not directly hinged from my life.
Marc:I don't know where it's going to go.
Marc:Let's try and write something totally original and just have me relapse.
Marc:And I think there's a lot of good things in that last season.
Marc:And I think that I did okay.
Marc:I don't think I was as good an actor as I am now, maybe, but I don't know.
Marc:I can't judge myself that well.
Marc:But yeah, that was really the reason we did that was because I didn't see any reason to refill it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because that's all those writers are looking for.
Marc:To build a refillable thing and just keep refilling it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Until they tell us we can't anymore.
Marc:And we weren't in that situation.
Marc:But I was like, I don't want to do another season at the money we get to produce this thing.
Marc:That's just going to be more of the same.
Marc:What for?
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:And no one was really watching it.
Marc:So let's do something.
Marc:But it was exactly why I guess I'm not really a sitcom guy.
Marc:That's why I did that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, and if you look at the show now structurally, it really is like act one is that first season where it was like this guy getting this new thing off the ground and trying to kind of redefine his life.
Guest:And then act two is...
Guest:is seasons two and three, which is like, well, what happens once that thing gets going and he gets these opportunities and there's some success and there's some failures and there's this and that.
Guest:And then act three is when it's all gone and can he survive?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's so funny.
Marc:MC Ganey was so thrilled.
Yeah.
Marc:Because he was like, I never play these parts.
Guest:It's like you got that out of him and Trejo.
Guest:These big tough guys who were like, oh, I actually have lines.
Marc:Trejo, though, boy, he had a hard time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, he, but for a couple of reasons outside of the allergies and him not being able to remember all the lines, he just couldn't, he didn't want to be the, the fucked up guy.
Marc:Like it was a, it was a recovery thing and I'm supposed to be his sponsor and it, he couldn't really, he couldn't really sit with it that well.
Marc:It was, it was an interesting few days working with him.
Guest:I think a great story of that show, though, is that you had asked Rogan to do an episode where he played himself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he turned it down on the basis of saying that the script made him look stupid.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But the reality was they had just used his actual transcripts from his show.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But then he said he doesn't want to be involved with anything Dennis Leary's involved in.
Marc:So he, you know, I don't know, whatever.
Yeah.
Guest:but yeah that was very funny it just really took stuff from his show like verbatim like they because they were worried of that exact thing i remember that they were like well we don't want to like offend joe by giving him lines that he is going to say he would never say right so instead he said i would never say that and it was like you did did say it yeah yeah yeah yeah now look what's happened everything's different
Guest:Well, one thing is not different, and it is that you remain who you are and you will continue to like the things that you like and grow where you can grow.
Guest:But I do think this gives your listeners a good sense, maybe a sense they didn't have before, of what exactly it is that makes you laugh and what you seek out.
Guest:All right, buddy.
Bye.