BONUS The Marc and Tom Show #1 (from 2012)
Marc:So folks, there's no typical Friday show today with Brendan and Chris because Brendan is in the process of heading out here to LA.
Marc:And the reason Brendan is heading out here is because our friend Tom Sharpling is getting married.
Marc:So it seems like a good time to post this for full Marin listeners, since this has never been available on WTF plus.
Marc:So Tom and I,
Marc:became friendly years back in mutual respect, broadcasters.
Marc:And we ran in the kind of had a lot of crossover in our worlds.
Marc:You know, he had his best show and I had my WTF, but we became friends and then decided to do the Mark and Tom show.
Marc:as a periodic thing that we like to just kind of hang out and talk, and the fans could buy them a la carte.
Marc:It was a way to make money, but it was also a way for us to spend time together.
Marc:So this was the first Mark and Tom show.
Marc:It was recorded in February 2012, and we did five of these, but this is the first one.
Marc:Enjoy.
Marc:Enjoy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So I don't know.
Marc:There's part of me that thinks that for this show, I think there's a music bed that's happening right now.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And then I think that what we do is I say, yeah, I'm Mark Maron, and I'm Tom Sharpling.
Guest:Yeah, that's perfect.
Guest:How about that?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I like this.
Guest:It's like...
Marc:I had some weird vision of a co-hosted morning program is what we're doing.
Guest:It's like two morning guys who got fired and still can't let go of the team dynamic, but no one's paying them anymore.
Guest:Is that far from the truth?
Marc:It kind of is weirdly accurate.
Marc:I do these shows sometimes where you got these morning guys who are regional morning guys, and then you go back to the town, and they've decided to do their, well, I'm doing it from the house now.
Marc:Yeah, and they're just completely overextended and streaming and freaking out because it's hard to hold on to their listeners.
Marc:They're embracing the technology.
Marc:Right.
Marc:For as long as it takes for them to get another job.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's something about, I think, being managed.
Marc:Like, we're all children.
Marc:There's part of the whole appeal of doing radio is just that, like, you're just going to pay me to sit in there and I'll sell this shit?
Marc:Yeah, okay, I can do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're my, you're my daddy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just guide me.
Guest:Did you ever do that?
Guest:Did I ever do actual?
Guest:Like, you know, like, uh, corporate radio?
Guest:No, no one's ever.
Guest:It is, it, I, I will forever be insulted.
Guest:Uh,
Guest:It's literally, I can say literally two weeks ago was the first time anyone ever made any gesture towards anything of anything who worked in radio.
Guest:Somebody asked me is like...
Guest:Somebody at NPR was kind of like, do you ever think about doing a thing?
Guest:And it's a guy I know for different reasons.
Guest:And he just asked just offhand.
Guest:And I was like, I almost cried because it took that long for someone to finally consider that maybe I should get paid actual like a check.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:for what i can do i think that we share the thing and that for some reason and it's the negative thing is that uh people assume we're doing exactly what we want to do oh no no tom's got the thing yeah he doesn't want he doesn't want to do that he he's got his own thing over there there's people i'll talk to i get these emails from people and it's like i'm super flattered by all of it but it's like
Guest:But the, the, the, the subtext is that since you have everything figured out and since, you know, since you, since you made it to the promised land, can you tell me now about how maybe I can get a few steps down the path?
Guest:And it's like, every day is like a fight, right?
Guest:You know what it's like?
Guest:Every day is like a full on horrendous.
Guest:Like I wake up.
Guest:I have this thing.
Guest:Do you know what GERD is?
Guest:You know GERD?
Guest:It's acid reflux.
Guest:You do?
Guest:It's the worst version of acid reflux.
Guest:It's when your mouth burns.
Guest:Because of the acid.
Guest:When you wake up?
Guest:You wake up with that?
Marc:Sometimes you wake up with it.
Marc:With a burning mouth?
Marc:Yeah, burning mouth.
Marc:Between me and you, I'd rather have that than what I have, which I think is anxiety-related gas.
Marc:I'd rather it come out the front than the back.
Guest:Well, you want to know what?
Guest:It's six of one because...
Guest:When you just sit there and all of a sudden you're just like, oh, wow, my lips feel hot.
Guest:Like my lips are tingling because the acid went past the top of my throat into my mouth and my tongue touched my lips at some point and now my lips tingle.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's every day?
Guest:No, it's when stressful times really flare up.
Guest:All of a sudden it'll just be like...
Guest:Oh, it's coming.
Guest:I feel the gird.
Guest:And it's a morning thing?
Guest:It's a night thing more than any.
Guest:It's kind of like morning and night, and once the day gets going, I can keep it in check, and I just got some medicine for it that is supposed to be good because...
Guest:The Writers Guild does not want to cover things.
Guest:The proton pump inhibitors is what, you know, all of the NXIVMs and the... Oh, okay.
Guest:They want you to just buy things over the counter that don't work.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:They don't want to pay for what you're entitled to.
Guest:Yeah, so exactly.
Marc:I have to fight them to get this...
Marc:I get the cold sores.
Marc:And I hadn't had one in a while.
Marc:And I get those when I get run down, stressed out.
Marc:But they're bad.
Marc:I look like I've been hit in the face.
Marc:And I thought I caught it and I didn't.
Marc:And I go down.
Marc:Thank God for the mustache.
Marc:But yeah, I don't understand why people... They always assume that I don't want to do things.
Marc:I heard something... There's this casting directors.
Marc:Burbigly had told me when he suggested me...
Marc:for a role to a casting director, they're like, oh yeah, we love Mark.
Marc:And I'm like, well, how about Colin Mark?
Marc:How would that be?
Marc:Well, we know he can act.
Marc:I've not heard from a casting director in probably 10 years for any reason.
Marc:Just nothing.
Marc:No one.
Marc:What are they all sitting around waiting for us to do things so they can go, see, I knew that no one helped.
Guest:But it's like you can't fight
Guest:every fight at the same time.
Guest:It's like literally... That's why I have anxiety.
Guest:You're holding your own with this little thing you carved out with your own hands that literally... Because look, I'll think of your...
Guest:You were like, you told me about this on my radio show and you've talked about it on your shows.
Guest:Like no one, like everybody would have been happy.
Guest:It's like if you just went away, it's like, you know, when people who like mythologize certain musicians where it's like, there's people who truly wish Bob Dylan died on that motorcycle.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Like where it's just like, that would have been the perfect story.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he's still, he's like 70 years.
Guest:three now, just playing.
Guest:He won't go away.
Guest:Lou Reed won't go away.
Marc:What about Lou Reed?
Marc:I listened to about 14 seconds of a couple of cuts on the Metallica Lou Reed record.
Guest:Now, are you a Lou Reed guy?
Guest:The things he did when he revolutionized things, they are undeniable, and I think he's always been
Guest:Capable of having that flash of something.
Guest:I would say the last time he really had it would be like Street Hassle, maybe.
Guest:Or, you know, even you could say Magic and Loss has nice stuff on it.
Guest:But new sensations?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:New sensations.
Guest:Songs for Droa?
Guest:Didn't get you?
Guest:Not really, no.
Guest:But I appreciate the effort.
Guest:I appreciate...
Guest:The ambition behind them.
Marc:That him and Kale were on the cover with interesting haircuts and too much makeup.
Marc:Yeah, with that corn muffin hair that John Kale had, that swoop.
Marc:All that shit seems to be done now.
Marc:Whatever we grew up with, or I don't know, I can't remember what our age difference is, but whatever was determined to be art in a New York way, haircuts and poetry and sound textures and everything that Lou Reed birthed and came out of the Lower East Side and then some of the more talking head stuff, all that shit is just gone.
Marc:They're just old men now, those guys.
Marc:Well, yeah, that's what happens.
Marc:There's a moment I had with Lou Reed where I realized he's kind of just a beat up old queen.
Marc:And I never really wanted to know that about him.
Marc:I mean, I have a great deal of respect for him.
Marc:But after I read Please Kill Me, something changed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm like, yeah, he's kind of a dick.
Marc:And I had a weird experience where I waited online to meet him when I was in college to get an autographed copy of Transformer.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And the Velvet Underground changed my life, and Street Hustle's great.
Marc:There's a lot of great stuff.
Marc:But when I saw him on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and I'm a softie, I'll err on the side of too much emotion.
Marc:I don't mind being manipulated occasionally.
Marc:I'll let that happen.
Marc:But I was like, he shouldn't be up there.
Guest:No.
Guest:But that's the thing.
Guest:It's almost like as a fan, he's better off dead as a fan.
Guest:Just not as a human.
Marc:Or just sitting down.
Marc:I mean, he's better off sitting somewhere, maybe waving the audience.
Marc:And Nicholson was great at that.
Marc:The Oscars.
Marc:Hey, there's Jack Nicholson.
Marc:Do you do anything?
Marc:No, but he's up front.
Marc:We're happy to see him.
Guest:He's just the guy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:There's Lou Reed just sitting there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But Lou Reed's still trying to like...
Guest:He's still fighting the thing, though.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:I'm doing this thing.
Guest:I'm reviewing each song on that Lou Reed Metallica thing, track by track.
Guest:I've been writing reviews of that online, and I've done nine of the ten songs on it.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:And look, the whole thing, it's generally terrible.
Guest:It's a terrible album, and it's just the weird pairing that shouldn't have happened.
Guest:It sounds like two different things going on.
Guest:Yeah, but the thing is, it's like...
Guest:There's no way those guys didn't know how weird it was when the four dudes from Metallica and Lou Reed sat in the room.
Guest:Somebody had to go, hey, it's pretty weird, right, that we're doing this thing.
Guest:It's not like the fans are the first ones to realize how weird this is.
Guest:They had to know how weird it was.
Guest:They made this thing that...
Guest:It's not built to sell 10 records.
Guest:It's unappealing and uncommercial.
Guest:So it's like sometimes I think that's enough sometimes for people.
Guest:It's just like you try something.
Guest:You make something weird.
Guest:You bought it, right?
Guest:It doesn't work.
Guest:Yeah, I bought it.
Guest:The guy at the record store literally said, like, you know this is the...
Marc:lou reed metallica thing right like as if i was gonna pay 17 for it just like i like the cover on this yeah i bought the leon russell elton john record i i don't know what that era or what and that's even older in a different era but it still has a hold on me i mean i try to listen to new music but i there there are certain people i i hate to admit that i have this mythology in my head that i definitely have these
Marc:people in lofty positions that I keep expecting something out of, but they, they've petered out.
Marc:A lot of them have petered out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What are you going to do about it?
Guest:There's nothing you can do.
Guest:Sometimes though.
Guest:Are you Tom Waits fan?
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:I think he's a big phony.
Guest:I think he's as phony as you can get.
Guest:I know everybody loves him.
Guest:No, you can make Tom Waitsman.
Marc:It's pretty easy.
Marc:This will rattle.
Marc:These are my nicotine lozenges.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Wait.
Marc:That hobo.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:Has there ever been a hobo who wanted to stay a hobo?
Guest:Like, dudes run for, like, the second you give a hobo money, they drop all that stuff.
Guest:Like, they stop dressing like that.
Guest:They buy themselves a suit.
Guest:Yes, they get clean clothes.
Marc:And then they wear the razor.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Come on, you didn't like any of it?
Marc:You thought he was a farce from the beginning?
Guest:It never spoke to me, and I always looked at it as just, it felt, it just, it played to a certain, and part of it is I'm bringing my own judgment on who it's playing to, to the table.
Guest:I know I'm guilty of it.
Guest:It plays to half smart people sometimes.
Guest:Half smart.
Guest:Where it's just like, I think I should like this.
Guest:Or just like, this is good, this is good, I don't understand it, but this guy must be great because I don't understand it.
Marc:There's a lot of textures.
Guest:Yeah, and it eludes me, but sometimes guys are just shoveling shit at you that you don't... And then there's the mythology of Waits.
Marc:He only uses gas burning lights in his studio.
Guest:But again, it's like, you know what?
Guest:It's so hard...
Guest:to find things you like and it's like can we make a list of things I like yeah I mean I need to make a list but it's like I don't want to just be the person who disabuses everybody of the things that they like yeah I like Tom Waits and I like the new record but I but I had it I was like I needed to be genius so I listened to it two or three times and the first listen I was like this is fucking good
Guest:great it's like all of this stuff from all different points in his career he's really hit it and then after but i didn't listen to it i'm done yeah i'm done with it yeah now do you fear you as a creative person do you fear being on the wrong side of that you know what i mean because isn't that scary that you don't like lou reed's the last dude in the room to know that he's cooked yeah but he fights it because he's like hey back everybody told me berlin sucked and
Guest:And they were wrong.
Guest:I fought it then.
Guest:So why is this Lulu thing any different?
Marc:Maybe they're wrong again.
Marc:What I learned about people just from doing comedy is sometimes, and from having a father, is sometimes these guys, if they stop working or they feel that they're no longer relevant, they will just fade away.
Marc:And there's ego involved and everything else.
Marc:And there's people that will champion them no matter what because of what they represented at another time.
Marc:So I think a lot of it has to do with just, you know, I don't know that.
Marc:i'm still doing this yeah and it's it's like uh it's it's almost career dysmorphia that they like like in the wrong way though right no i look great right exactly yeah i'm doing great i'm back at it i wrote these new things yeah that uh people that's important yeah exactly that the people who i pay like yeah right i've never been better is something they say
Guest:I feel great.
Guest:Everyone in my office loves the stuff.
Marc:But, you know, I mean, I don't know.
Marc:You get to a certain age, though, don't you start to feel like, well, fuck, I mean, what are my plans?
Marc:I mean, let's say there's an outside chance I live.
Marc:So what are my plans?
Marc:I mean, am I just going to stop?
Marc:I'd like to stop.
Marc:I would stop.
Marc:Would you stop?
Marc:In my mind, I would stop.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, comedy-wise, every performance is some sort of emotionally exhausting journey through so much shit that I don't know.
Marc:I don't ever see myself getting consistent or getting it down to such a science that I can just...
Marc:you know blindly plow through it i'm never going to play the hits yeah i don't know how to fucking do that everything like everything's on the line no matter what yeah and i'm ready to stop so you just feel like there's an expiration date on that as a physical being yeah i'm already tired yeah i mean i think that there's some weird forces at work that haven't awarded me a lot of money one of the reasons is exactly why i said i don't think i've ever been that consistent and i'm not an earner per se but
Marc:But if I had a million dollars or someone just gave it to me, I would probably just eat myself to death or sit outside over there and think and maybe have people over occasionally and talk to them.
Marc:And what else is there?
Marc:What would you miss from it, though?
Marc:What would I miss?
Marc:What would you miss?
Marc:I think the only thing you miss is feeling like you're relevant to somebody.
Marc:I mean, sadly, I mean, if I really think about the big picture, that most of...
Marc:My self-esteem is built on outside input.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's not coming from the inside.
Marc:It's never come from the inside.
Marc:If my job was to sit out on that deck and generate self-esteem, it would not be a project I could finish in a lifetime.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But if someone came over once a day and said, you're doing great.
Marc:You're doing great.
Guest:It's like, oh, you just turn into like a puddle of jelly.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like, oh, that's all I need.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now I can eat lunch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it's like, yeah, because I'll just...
Guest:It is so, it's like, it's a weird thing that you end up the victim of praise, of the need for praise.
Guest:Or you're just like, why don't these people leave me alone?
Guest:And finally it's like, why aren't they saying anything nice about me today?
Guest:Why won't they bother me again?
Guest:Why don't they leave me alone?
Guest:Come on, guys.
Guest:I'm a human.
Guest:I need my space.
Guest:And it's like, where are they?
Guest:And I have it on such a small level, like so low on the showbiz ladder.
Guest:I know my place on it, and it's the lowest rung.
Guest:It might not even be the... We're right there at this somewhere.
Guest:And it's like, if I'm there, you know how people just become like...
Guest:Non-humans, when they get higher up, when it's what I'm dealing with on this low level times a thousand for somebody or times 10,000 or just like, there's no way you can stay a human being with a mind and trying to just live 24-hour days and have those things thrown at you.
Marc:Oh, no, you have to insulate yourself.
Marc:You have to have an army of sycophants and hangers-on to filter, to have your cell phone for you.
Marc:Yeah, you have to have several email addresses.
Marc:And you have to detach from it, too.
Guest:You know when Christian Bale flipped out at that dude when he was doing the Terminator movie?
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:And then some guy walked on the thing.
Guest:I could not have been more on Christian Bale's side with that thing.
Guest:Because it's like, everybody's like, oh, look at the actor out of control.
Guest:I was like...
Guest:This guy's got to go up in front of 200 people who are doing a movie and they're just staring at this guy pretending he's in the future, you know, like in front of a screen.
Guest:It's like, can you imagine feeling more of a moron?
Guest:Like you're one guy.
Guest:Now you have to act like a robot is in front.
Guest:Like just as it's such a dumb place to be and to get to the level where he can sell that.
Guest:At a Shakespearean level, he's selling the idea that he's arguing with a robot.
Guest:And then some guy comes in and takes him out of that.
Guest:A guy who just doesn't know his DP.
Guest:And also that DP, by the way.
Guest:Everybody says, yeah, that guy's annoying.
Guest:That guy's got this rap as being like, yeah, he just butts in and doesn't care about... But just what it takes to get into the headspace to sell that...
Guest:And then some dude's knocking you out of it.
Guest:It's like, that would be horrible.
Guest:Like, yeah, he should be yelled at.
Guest:It's like, how about you respect the fact that I look, I'm the only asshole here.
Guest:There's 201 people here.
Guest:One of us is acting like it's the future.
Guest:And there's a robot in front of me.
Guest:And the rest of you guys are wearing jeans and T-shirts.
Guest:And it's like...
Guest:I'm that guy.
Guest:It's like, how about letting me just do it and then bother me after.
Marc:So it's just, I have a big illusion to maintain here.
Marc:Oh man.
Marc:But I also like, I, like I was just thinking about this today because I was coming up here and oh fuck.
Marc:I, I don't,
Marc:Like, I'm tired.
Marc:I got to travel tomorrow.
Marc:And I want to dump on somebody.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I just want, you know, I'm just like, I'm looking for targets.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm glad I've gotten to that point to where it's not just impulsive, where I make someone cry for no reason.
Marc:It's just sort of like, bleh.
Marc:And then, you know, look, it's magic, your tears.
Marc:But now I'm sort of like, I feel it.
Marc:I'm actually having conversations with myself on who might deserve a bit of shit.
Guest:So you used to be the dude who goes into a fast food place and shoots everybody.
Guest:Now you're an assassin.
Marc:Usually it's people who I have some emotional connection with.
Marc:Or they're in my world somewhere.
Marc:Maybe a manager.
Marc:Now I've got this assistant who I've not done that to yet.
Marc:The girlfriend, that's out because that just explodes.
Marc:And then it's exhausting and there's moving clothes in and out of the house and drama.
Marc:But I'm trying to process it logically and realize, hey, well, maybe I'm just tired.
Marc:I got to travel tomorrow.
Marc:I have two huge shows in a town that I'm a little uncomfortable in.
Marc:I have history there.
Marc:And why not just do that?
Marc:But there's also the option of like, well, why not have a breakdown of some kind?
Marc:Maybe sabotage yourself.
Marc:But all these are discussions.
Marc:They're not impulsive anymore.
Marc:And I'm not sure why I'm talking.
Marc:Like you see your you see them coming toward you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I just like there was a different tone that I existed.
Marc:Oh, I know what it was that we're at this level here.
Marc:And you and I, I think, more than most people are insanely available to our fans in a way that can go either way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it seems to me that once people start moving up the ladder that they deny access.
Marc:They literally, they deny access.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:And then all eyes are upon them waiting for access, and God forbid they say something stupid.
Marc:I can't fucking deal with that either.
Marc:You're only one tweet away from being the biggest asshole in the world.
Guest:From it just like, all of a sudden, it's like you look, trending topics, Marc Maron.
Guest:Ooh.
Guest:Marc Maron.
Guest:What happened there?
Guest:Like, either he got a TV show, or he...
Guest:or he just detonated his career right and then you go to my page and there's 900 tweets about uh you know the problems with uh immigration or something okay what's happened yeah yeah no it it really is it's i i really feel and look uh everything i know i'm saying and i i know you're saying it's like oh there is nothing but gratitude for the people who like what we're doing yeah i know that yeah it's like
Guest:I appreciate it.
Guest:You say it every week on your show that you appreciate it.
Marc:How do you notice that?
Marc:That must be something you've noted.
Marc:Oh, Maren seems to express his gratitude more now.
Marc:Well, it seems like you get more comfortable with it.
Guest:Is that bad?
Guest:No, I think it's great.
Guest:Look, the one thing I truly, not the one thing, a thing that I truly do admire about you is that you're doing this stuff in front of everybody.
Guest:You're evolving and trying to be a better person.
Guest:on the clock with people watching.
Guest:And that's not an easy thing to do.
Marc:I'm setting myself up for a fall, Tom.
Marc:There's no... This doesn't end well.
Marc:I mean, what am I going to walk through my diagnosis of something horrible with everybody?
Marc:I mean, there's only two ways this can go.
Marc:We'll get about a year or two of like, wow, I finally got on top of everything.
Marc:Then I'm like, I just got back from the doctor.
Marc:Or I'm like, you can all go fuck yourselves.
Marc:Those are the only two paths I can see.
Marc:It's like, I just got back from the doctor.
Guest:I have some bad news.
Guest:You're like, fuck you.
Guest:I'm tired of this shit.
Guest:Or you're it.
Guest:Then you're like at Hamburg or Hamlet hoping to get recognized.
Marc:The loitering guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like Bob Crane in autofocus sitting at the bar next to a TV with Hogan's Heroes on.
Guest:Hamburg, I'll never forget Hamburg or Hamlet because that's like...
Guest:Like Dean Martin, supposedly.
Marc:Where is it?
Marc:It's still down on Sunset?
Marc:There's a couple of them, right?
Marc:I didn't know that they still existed anymore.
Guest:There's that one tucked away in the corner in West Hollywood.
Guest:I don't even know if it's still there.
Guest:But that's the one that Dean Martin used to drive down the hill.
Guest:When he was 100 years old?
Guest:Yeah, and just sit at Hamburger Hamlet and just kind of like...
Guest:Wait.
Guest:Yeah, just kind of.
Marc:Did you read that Nick Tosh's book?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:In that period where he's just like, those pictures, I'll never forget those pictures in that book.
Marc:That book, that changed my fucking life.
Marc:All right, let's do it.
Marc:Let's make the list.
Marc:Let's start with books.
Marc:Books that change your life.
Guest:I would put Dino down.
Guest:I would put Dino down because it showed...
Guest:It just showed this celebrity from this other... Gutted it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:From this angle.
Guest:And it just showed the guy's journey.
Marc:All right, so we got Dino.
Marc:The denial of death was important to me.
Guest:I'm scared to read that book.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Because everybody... I hear you talk about it every third episode.
Guest:And I'm just like, I don't think I'm ready to handle that yet.
Marc:Well, it's all about what we're talking about.
Marc:It's just about transference and that we have to feel like we're connected to something in order to define our lives.
Marc:Without that connection, we're just a neurotic mess of barely hiding the fact that it's futile and we're dying animals.
Marc:You don't want to read that?
Marc:Wait.
Guest:No, I'm at Amazon right now on my phone.
Guest:I don't know why you want to strip it down like that.
Guest:You should read the audio book.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In an excited way?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just get you to put that up at Audible.
Marc:And doing commentary?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Just get you doing the audio book.
Marc:It's pretty dense, you know, and it's not like an easy, it's not an easy read.
Guest:You know what book I always stuck with me?
Guest:I've read it twice, and I would like to read it again, is Moby Dick.
Marc:Oh, I've got to read that.
Guest:It's so great.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Because it's like, it's like there's all of the buildup for things.
Guest:Do you want me to ruin Moby Dick for you?
Marc:I think it's... Hey, spoiler alert.
Marc:Spoiler alert.
Guest:Like, here's how Moby Dick plays out.
Guest:The first, like, 60 pages, it's about just the history of the whale and just how the whale is larger than man.
Guest:It's just the...
Guest:Does everything with that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the book starts.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then they're chasing the whale.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in the final two pages, the whale shows up, smashes the boat.
Guest:It's like the fastest thing ever.
Guest:It's like, oh, the whale was following us the whole time.
Guest:Shows up, smashes the boat, and kills everybody.
Guest:In the final two pages, it's amazing that chasing the whale, chasing the whale.
Guest:The whale was with us the whole time.
Guest:And it kind of... It's a book that has always...
Guest:Kind of maybe maybe it's it's my version of denial of death where it's just like you realize how small you are in the face of larger things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can never beat the whale.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So do not try to go kill the whale because it is guaranteed that the whale will kill you.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:That's the message.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We've rendered it.
Marc:Yeah, so that has kind of... I've kind of... You read it twice?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's so weird in my life when I've read classics of that weight.
Marc:I'm just so fucking proud of myself that I finished it and that I honestly processed it.
Marc:I don't know if I could go back again.
Marc:Those are like landmark achievements for me.
Marc:When I actually read Crime and Punishment, like read the fuck out of it, I was like, I'm on the top of Everest.
Guest:I read it and I felt that way.
Guest:I would love to go back to that.
Guest:I read...
Guest:a lot of that stuff a long time ago.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of the Russian stuff.
Guest:And now it's time to read.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you have time to read?
Guest:I have to work at it like really hard to work.
Guest:And then I'm just so, I go through these fits where I'm so bad at it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm just like, like, I'm a dumb, like, am I getting, like, am I just leaking IQ points?
Guest:Like I'm incapable of concentrating.
Guest:And it's like, I think.
Guest:We're victims.
Guest:We've been, we've been ruined.
Guest:Well, there's a point I was going to bring up now.
Guest:This is a good point to bring it back.
Guest:It's like,
Guest:I think it is a very bad thing to have a four on your age.
Guest:At this point in history, because it's like you've you've grown up.
Guest:You've you've seen grown up in analog.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You saw three lifetimes worth of changes crammed into 20 years.
Guest:And it's the wrong 20 years to grow up with a kid who's growing up with with these things.
Guest:Now, it just informs the world.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:It's like.
Guest:You can't be 20 and writing a letter to somebody hoping to get back, and then just like 20 years later, it's like the whole world just turns upside down, and now people have access.
Marc:Now there's 100 letters that you have to process every day.
Marc:Part of your daily routine would be like half a year.
Marc:Do you imagine how much email goes out and the communications?
Marc:So you're experiencing this too?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Are you losing chunks of memory?
Guest:I feel like I'm just staying in front of it.
Guest:Like it's nipping at my heels.
Guest:And if I am not vigilant, I'm like, it's going to just get me and I'm just doomed.
Guest:And it's like, there's still the actual male.
Guest:You know, the amazing thing is that the actual male now is like...
Guest:It's just garbage.
Guest:Like all the mail is just, it's just charity stuff.
Guest:Like all it is like, it's just like label, you know how many labels I would have to like return labels that they send.
Guest:Do you ever use your name?
Guest:No, you can't.
Guest:It's like, but you could never use as many of them as you get.
Guest:It's like, I get like four a week.
Guest:I know.
Marc:But do you ever use them even if you don't give money to the charity?
Guest:I'll give money to the charity that sends it, and then I'll just – it's like a deal.
Guest:I'll shred the ones that I don't use because I also just don't physically have room.
Guest:It's like, well, if I ever go on a letter-writing tear and I still live here, I'm golden.
Marc:I still like – I won't pay bills online, but I feel the exact same way with everything is that if I –
Marc:get off the grid for two days, I don't know how I'm going to manage my email.
Marc:Shit falls through the cracks.
Marc:You're supposed to be available, you know, 24 hours a day, seven days a week for anybody that's reaching out to you.
Marc:If you don't return an email in a day, you know, and I've been on the other side of that too.
Marc:They're like, what the fuck did I do?
Marc:And now I'm just starting to now realize that it's got nothing to do with you.
Marc:They didn't get to it yet.
Marc:Sometimes it takes people a week or two to, to get back to you on email.
Marc:And, and I, and I get mad at that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I'm spending, I'm up all night.
Marc:I mean, I'm working.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm responding to shit.
Guest:And it's just like, you just like, yeah.
Guest:It's like, why are you not at my clock?
Guest:And then, but everybody's clock changes.
Marc:Everybody's clocks.
Marc:But what are we going to do, man?
Marc:I mean, it's like, I can't, I'm losing chunks of my history.
Marc:I mean, people walk up to me and they're like, hey.
Marc:And I'm like, do I, should I have some, where do you fit in?
Marc:I've lived in four cities.
Marc:I'm 48 years old.
Marc:If it's within the last 10 years, maybe I'll put you in place.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And I can't find you.
Marc:I can't find you in the files.
Guest:It's a very... Look, this is a great time to live in, but it's also a very... It's very hard.
Guest:There's a difficulty to where you can't just reset the world again and again and again.
Guest:What the world is has changed three times.
Guest:I don't know what to do.
Guest:As adults, it's changed.
Guest:It's just like... And just the concept of...
Guest:People having that access, it's a weird thing to come relatively late in life to the idea that all of a sudden it's like, oh, when I'm at home, I'm potentially on stage if I want to look at it that way.
Guest:Like, I could be performing for everybody in my house now.
Guest:And it's like... In a very concise way.
Guest:Yeah, but it's just like...
Guest:Unless you process that in a healthy way and participate in the stuff that works for you and just check out of the stuff that doesn't, it kind of consumes you a little bit.
Guest:It's the whale.
Guest:It is the whale.
Guest:I made a resolution this year that I would not read comments on things.
Guest:Just, I can't, I cannot handle it.
Guest:I cannot handle... Hurtful comments.
Guest:I just do not have the capacity and it's not my place.
Guest:I will never, as you talk about, the whale would be telling people, hey, why don't you knock it off, guys.
Guest:Stop with comment sections.
Guest:Like, that's the whale to me.
Guest:That's my whale.
Guest:Would be trying to fight that.
Guest:And I will always lose.
Guest:So I just have to check out of it.
Guest:I just cannot participate because it...
Guest:I'd be fine with it.
Guest:I'd be fine with it.
Guest:Fine with it.
Guest:And then I would read the one thing and it'd just be like, oh, I just, that just killed me.
Guest:Like, why am I doing any of this?
Marc:Like, why am I?
Marc:But how, how come we, what is wrong with us?
Marc:I mean, cause I do that too, but I, I don't like, I've become too busy to, I'm exhausted.
Marc:I can't think in like two days ahead for me is a fucking problem.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, it's like, what's happening today?
Marc:And okay, I'll do that today.
Marc:If I think about next week, I'm going to be consumed with dread and horror and anxiety and exhaustion and nervousness.
Marc:Just to get out here, like you're saying, just earlier in the conversation, just to get out here to do a podcast, to get on the mic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I got to pace around.
Marc:I got to eat something.
Marc:I got to clean a pan.
Marc:I fucking, you know.
Marc:You get in your head space to do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then I come out here and maybe something happens.
Guest:yeah fuck yeah because like i'm driving i like to listen to music before i do my radio show but like i'm here so i have to have the gps on so i'm trying to listen so it's like 10 and one like i can't even like get my head straight before doing this
Guest:And the thing is, it's like, we are not being shot at.
Guest:We are not, there are not bombs dropping on us.
Guest:It's like, what are they?
Guest:Are these personal wars?
Guest:We're in the Twitter trenches.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like.
Marc:It's ridiculous, man.
Marc:So what do we, so we're grown men.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How old are you?
Guest:I'm going to be 43 in February.
Guest:I'm older, yeah.
Guest:But then you see.
Guest:You see people like, look, Zach is a friend of both of ours.
Guest:He didn't do any of this stuff.
Guest:And the guy's like, could not be more successful.
Guest:Like, he's not on Twitter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's not on Facebook or anything.
Guest:It's just like.
Marc:Well, he's reached that level.
Guest:But he wasn't at it before it.
Marc:I know, but he was already reaching the level right when it all happened.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He just never played that accessibility.
Marc:I don't know that he needed to.
Marc:What I've grown to realize about the pace of everything is they expect us human beings to operate at that pace with the same lack of emotion and random spontaneity and constant generating of things.
Marc:I mean, I have this conversation a lot now where you do a joke and then you go do it on stage and you're like, oh, I heard that joke.
Marc:I'm like, what the fuck you want from me?
Marc:I mean, how much minutiae do you think I wade through every day?
Marc:Like, I'm about tapped out.
Marc:Are you going to talk me down?
Marc:I mean, what are we going to do?
Marc:Are we going to go on trips with our wives like our parents did?
Marc:Look at the pictures from the cruise.
Marc:Am I going to do that?
Marc:What does it look like?
Guest:You know, that's why it's like I try to look at – I've been – lately I've been really fascinated by how people conduct themselves in the autumn and winter years of their professional lives.
Guest:You're doing some homework?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just like – like you look at how – like Lou Reed.
Guest:Like I've been really just –
Guest:Like, there is something admirable about the guy who picks himself off the mat every time.
Guest:Like, that sucked.
Guest:Well, I'll do another one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then you look at, like, Scorsese, where it's like, this guy's, what, he's 70?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like, he's making, Hugo, in a strange way, is maybe his most personal movie.
Guest:Because it's a movie about...
Guest:restoration of old movies where it's like could that be more of a uh could that could that be more specific for a guy like like that's his actual interest is making sure the history of cinema is preserved so he made the most expensive movie in his career about the most specific thing he's interested in and it's like that guy navigates through these things he does these documentaries and he does it with
Guest:You know, look, he's never going to get back to being the guy, you know, running around in the San Gennaro Festival with Mean Streets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, he's not that guy anymore.
Marc:But he's... Aging gracefully.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he's evolving his craft to honor who he is in this time.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And then, you know, there's guys like... And it's just that part interests me because...
Guest:Like, I can see that coming.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just, you know, I hate that I am so low on the ladder at this point.
Guest:Like, usually, like, yeah, Martin Scorsese had already done eight things when he was my age to figure out the next part of his career.
Guest:I'm still trying to do the first thing.
Guest:And it's just like, I'm still fighting at the bottom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At this point.
Guest:What are you doing out here, though?
Guest:Are you doing... I'm just doing meetings and stuff and just trying to figure out what 2012 is going to be.
Guest:What's the dream, man?
Guest:We did a pilot for Comedy Central.
Guest:We shot in October.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And now we're waiting to see what happens with it.
Guest:And I just have to assume that...
Guest:You have to assume the worst for everything.
Guest:I hope it goes.
Guest:People like it.
Guest:But I just have to assume it's not going to because I can't be six months behind on a thing.
Guest:They're like, that's my ticket.
Guest:That's my ticket.
Guest:And all of a sudden, it's like, well, it didn't happen.
Guest:And then I have to...
Marc:figure out what the next thing is you have to be that you have to be a step ahead of it i'm starting to see that they're the people there's two camps these days or a few camps are the people that just do the raw thing and then there are people that do the abstract thing either you're raw or abstract yeah you know raw it's dicey because with raw you know you could go right into sad raw is not that far from sad
Marc:yeah you know hot raw like what's raw to you what what's just expressing your feelings and being honest about who you are uh without a narrative format and that's very unpredictable you know on a day-to-day basis yeah but you know some people make cartoons and you know everyone's having a good time and talking in silly voices i don't know how to fucking do that i can't even begin to think about that
Guest:But they're the same thing to me in a way.
Guest:It's like, I've been thinking about, I went to go see Monster Magnet play a couple weeks ago.
Guest:Like, they're from New Jersey.
Guest:And they're from Red Bank, which is just like, you know, near the shore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:They're this band where all the songs are about monsters and all that stuff.
Guest:But he's just like some Jersey dude.
Guest:And I was listening to this stuff realizing he's just writing fantastic versions of just regular New Jersey life.
Guest:It's the difference between Lou Reed and Led Zeppelin, in a way.
Guest:Led Zeppelin puts it in the context of elves and all that stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then other people sing about it in a literal way.
Marc:Right.
Marc:A literal way.
Marc:Led Zeppelin alludes to elves and maybe elf sex, and Lou Reed fucks short people.
Yeah.
Guest:Is that what you're saying?
Guest:I guess it's just, it's a matter, I think everybody's tapping into the same thing.
Marc:Very small transvestites, which are, you know, can be seen as some sort of fairytale type of creature.
Marc:You really do miss the old New York, don't you?
Marc:I had it really mythology.
Marc:Like, I had, growing up when I did that, these, both of the New York and the San Francisco thing took on sort of mythological landscape.
Marc:When I was younger, the beatnik thing and the hippie thing was very appealing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And as I got older and more arty, you know, that whole thing, the New York thing started to happen.
Marc:And I saw myself as a, you know, a kind of budding artist.
Marc:You know, I had to acquire TVs and hats at Goodwills and, you know, construct things in my house.
Marc:I wasn't clear what I was working towards, but, you know, I went to one Namjoon Paik.
Marc:and saw a mountain of televisions.
Marc:I'm like, well, this is how it's done.
Marc:I can do this.
Marc:A little spray paint.
Marc:I'm all set.
Marc:I was a photographer.
Marc:I thought that was going to be it, but that became very technical.
Marc:And I wrote poems.
Marc:I was a poet for a while.
Marc:I thought I was a pretty good poet.
Marc:Journalism.
Marc:I tried everything in college.
Marc:It sort of stuck.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I didn't follow through.
Guest:Do you think you could have expressed the things you were expressing
Marc:by one layer removed like like in a more like could you tap into the same if i could stand next to the thing yeah can you but can you tap into the same level of of just the the the thing in your gut oh yeah when you write something when you write a poem or you do a photograph or whatever what you invest in it you're hoping it's going to translate and it may translate to you but then how do you get that how do you get that feedback i mean you put a movie out in the world and that seems pretty impressive uh
Marc:I would like to do a film.
Marc:And I know that the only thing that stops me is not just fear, but I guess anxiety is fear.
Marc:It's just, you know, taking the steps, like just getting, going to a rock show.
Marc:I mean, I don't know if you're at that point yet where you're like, when I have to leave the house, we have to drive to the place.
Marc:I don't know how, if it's sold out or if I'm going to know the guy that's supposed to meet me there or if I'm going to be on the list.
Marc:And then like, what if the seats suck and,
Marc:If I have to stand, it's going to be shitty.
Marc:So that's what I'm doing as opposed to going to the show.
Guest:Somebody had said to me, I can't remember where this came from, but it's like...
Guest:It's like when you want to do something, it's like, hey, I'm going to the rock show.
Guest:Like, that's literally all you would write down.
Guest:But when you don't want to do it, it's like, I got to go take a shower.
Guest:I got to change clothes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I got to get in the car.
Guest:I got to wait in traffic.
Guest:Like, you just tell yourself why you don't want to do the thing.
Guest:But there's a thing you want to do.
Guest:It's like, hey, I'm going to go across town and go to the rock show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But you're still doing all that same other stuff, but it's not a thing.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's just part of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when the thing starts to overshadow the rock show, then either you're getting older or you just need anti-anxiety medicine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, do you feel like you're you now?
Guest:Like this is the you you've been building toward your whole life, like voice-wise?
Marc:I think this is the you.
Marc:I think what I feel like is I was kind of this strange vessel, you know, wandering around in a lot of confusion, feeling uncomfortable.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now I feel like that whatever is in the vessel has sort of taken form, and I have a little more acceptance of it.
Marc:Before, it was like just a kind of hazy sense of self.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Maybe this hat will make me me.
Marc:Perhaps these shoes.
Marc:There's a lot of striving and looking to congeal.
Marc:Was it a matter of subtraction with things?
Marc:No, it's just a matter of like...
Marc:I don't know what happened.
Marc:I think it's all fear.
Marc:It's all like, I'm not good enough.
Marc:It's not right.
Marc:How come I'm not more like that guy?
Marc:Maybe if I wore that hat, if I hide behind this beard, all this other shit.
Marc:I don't know if it was that conscious.
Marc:But at some point between age and also finally having some people interested in what I do, it just gets tiring to do that shit.
Marc:To see somebody that still hasn't sort of landed on themselves at my age, it's just horrifying.
Guest:And there's that moment when you...
Guest:When you start even just one degree more comfortable in your own skin, and it just feels like somebody just took a backpack off your back.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Where you're just like, wow, I can actually... Yeah.
Guest:It's kind of like when you... Those quiet moments.
Guest:It's actually like it's kind of humming in a way, in a very peaceful way.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:And you can still go forward and do the things that we've been talking about as being like the fight and stuff, but you're not doing them from like your weakest plate.
Marc:They're not coming from... Like a reactionary kind of like, you know, uncontrolled place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's not like I'm doing this because of insecurity or I'm doing this.
Guest:You're just like, I'm doing this because I like doing this and I'm good at doing this and people like that I do this.
Guest:It's like I work so hard to be so nice to people.
Guest:Like I really... I work overtime to be nice to people and...
Guest:How's that working out?
Guest:Oh, it's not at all.
Guest:It's not, it's not going well because you can't fix everybody and you can't, you, you, I can't lift the world up and make everybody happy just cause I'm going to just go double time now.
Guest:And like, it's not here.
Guest:Not everybody's not happy yet.
Guest:Well, what if I do this?
Guest:I'll go, I'll go deeper now.
Marc:Like I'm digging a ditch.
Marc:You worry about people being happy.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Guest:That's good for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's like at a point and suddenly it's like, it sounds so hokey, but it's all of a sudden like, yeah, Hey, I'm in here somewhere too.
Guest:You know, maybe at some point I could, uh, make sure I'm doing all right in the scheme of all this stuff.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:Cause like I, I'm the other, I'm the other way.
Marc:It's like, if I'm not like, I have to turn things off.
Marc:That's how I act properly.
Marc:It's, it's, I literally have to say like, no, don't say that.
Marc:like you might like i have impulses like this is not this is not the time to say that yeah but my instinct is like and i i have to i have to not say stuff so what happens to me is i'm acting nice and people are like he's a little aloof for eric and i'm like no i'm just i have to sure i have to shut things off yeah well the way i do it is i'll just be talking to somebody about a thing and i'll just go like well maybe we should write a movie together
Guest:And then now I've like put a thing about a project and then I just go away.
Guest:I'll just be like, oh, I don't have time.
Guest:I barely have time for the stuff I got to do.
Guest:Now I'm floating the idea.
Guest:I'm going to go write a movie with somebody.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:They're going to be expecting that, and then I'm going to disappoint.
Guest:It's like, well, I guess I better find a way to write that movie with them.
Guest:Find that extra, like, I guess that's what I'll do between 4 and 6 a.m.
Guest:Work on that movie.
Guest:But does that work for you?
Guest:No!
Guest:It doesn't work at all!
Guest:It's a disaster!
Guest:But it's that thing, it's...
Guest:Just like you are learning to not say that thing.
Guest:I'm learning not to say the thing that everybody might want to hear.
Marc:Or like, yes.
Marc:Yeah, I'll do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I do that too.
Marc:I'm like, ah, it'll be all right.
Marc:And then you realize every time you say yes, that's at least three hours of your life for one day.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Depending how big the project.
Marc:Even if it's just a show.
Marc:Yeah, I guess that'll be good.
Marc:All right.
Marc:When that day comes, I'm going to be on that day going...
Marc:Why the fuck did I?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because now I have to do this shit.
Marc:And then you feel drafted into it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then you become the asshole because you're like, I really can't do it.
Marc:I'm just too tired to do it.
Guest:Or it's like, oh, he seemed like he was in a bad mood at this thing.
Guest:Like, oh, Mark, he seems so crabby.
Guest:Why didn't we ask him to do it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm not going to ask him to do it again.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But they were, you know.
Guest:I thought you wanted me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's that thing.
Guest:Where's my soda?
Guest:It's all on me to control it.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's all on me.
Guest:I know.
Guest:100% is on me.
Guest:It's not even, you know, it just, it gets to be this thing where it's like, you got to just take care of it.
Guest:You got to mind the store at some point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like if we were to do a show, me and you.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:I'm not putting that out there, so I don't want you to add that to your plate.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I'll do it.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You want to do a show?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:What would it be?
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:In front of people?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I would be sweating a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I tend to sweat on.
Guest:I was so happy when I did the WTF at the bell house.
Guest:It was just like, hey, the air conditioner is broken.
Guest:It's like, oh, that's a perfect excuse.
Guest:Oh, I'm sweating up here like a pig because the air conditioner is broken.
Guest:It's like it could have been 35 degrees there.
Guest:I would have been sweating.
Marc:Well, that's a problem I have.
Marc:And I'm sure you have with the radio shows.
Marc:People are like, well, now maybe I'll do a show.
Marc:And then they're like, well, what's the show?
Marc:I'm like, well, I'm just going to be me and we'll have some other people around.
Marc:Do you need more explaining?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what's interesting is to go back.
Guest:I had on my iPod a bunch of your shows and then just one of them...
Guest:flowed into another one and an early one of your live shows came up and it was like this thing where you're just like it's like you hear like the echo of like your voice bouncing off the empty walls back to the thing and you're just like and it was this thing you're just trying to you're just trying to get it go like like
Guest:Trying to do something here, guys.
Guest:Help me out.
Guest:But now it's this thing that everybody knows what it is.
Guest:They get it and they sell out.
Guest:But it's this early thing.
Guest:It's not long ago.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:You're just at this thing and you're kind of, I'm not like you were just, you were having to work to.
Guest:I still do.
Guest:I still do.
Guest:I think.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But people are meeting you part of the way now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I just like, it's just this preparation thing.
Marc:It's just this flying by the seat of my pants.
Marc:Half the energy of what I do is driven by the fact that I'm really unprepared.
Marc:And that's no way to work, really.
Marc:It's very taxing.
Marc:Responsible artists are like, I've got my thing.
Marc:I know how to do it.
Marc:I've got a system.
Marc:Every day, it's like, I have to invent a system.
Marc:What the hell is my fucking system?
Guest:I mean, before I do my show, I do so many notes and things.
Guest:And then I just don't get to most of them.
Guest:Because I want the thing to be an organic system.
Guest:experience and just be the best version of it is the one that's happening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it can't be like, you know, that's always the biggest bummer is when people are like, oh, no, we're having too much fun with this thing.
Guest:We got to get to what's on the paper now.
Guest:It's like, no, this is going great.
Guest:Just ride this out.
Guest:What are you scared of it?
Guest:Nobody knows where we're going here.
Guest:Let's just go to where we don't know we're going because it's the best right now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At this point, if I'm happy with myself, that kind of has to be enough.
Guest:I know ultimately that's how it has to be.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If I'm okay, it just like, the other stuff isn't going to take me all the way there as much as like me being happy with myself will.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then what if we get happy with ourselves?
Marc:Because I'm happier with myself.
Yeah.
Guest:But isn't it enough to almost just be happier with yourself?
Marc:Yeah, but my question is, can we stop then?
Guest:Can you stop being... Stop what?
Marc:The fight.
Guest:And if I stop the fight, then what's the... I think you might be happier with yourself because you're dealing better with the fight.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:So the fight doesn't stop.
Guest:It's not that you checked out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's that it's like, look, I'm doing the thing I want to do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's the thing you went to.
Guest:You were not drafted into being a stand-up comic.
Guest:No.
No.
Guest:It's clearly a compulsion for you and a thing that speaks to you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm doing it and I'm living with it better.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like I'm actually... Yeah, it's good.
Guest:I feel like I can walk away and feel comfortable in my own skin and still do the thing that I'm compelled to do.
Marc:I'm just like, you know, the one thing I know is that thank God for technology because I think that after having this discussion, parts of it anyways...
Marc:Like, if I didn't have all this bullshit to distract me from the sheer terror of the finitude of life, it would be horrendous.
Marc:You mean just the... Well, just sort of like, you know, like, there's no reason every day not to get up and go, well, how long is this going to last?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:All of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you talk about trying to be present in stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How do you do that?
Guest:Well, you have a conversation.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Well, wow.
Guest:I didn't realize.
Guest:See, now I'm thinking...
Guest:In the back of my mind, I just feel like, how's this going to be on the internet?
Guest:This is what we're doing?
Guest:We don't have to do anything with it.
Guest:But that's the whole thing.
Guest:We could delete this.
Guest:But I need to just be like, oh, this is the thing right now.
Guest:And part of it is that you have to be...
Guest:you're, you know, when you're, when you're in, in like entertainment, you, it's like you're on your own and it's like, it's not, there's no company structure that's just like, Hey, you know how things work at this company is that this is, this is how the year plays out and just fit into that structure.
Guest:It's like you wake up in the morning.
Guest:It's just like, Oh my God, what?
Guest:It's all on me.
Guest:It's on, it's like,
Guest:I could hit new file on word and then it'll say zero words on this thing written.
Guest:And it's on me to every day figure out what I got to do on this thing.
Guest:It's like, what do I do?
Guest:Like, there's like that part of it keeps me from being, feeling present in things.
Guest:The fact that I always have to think about just the next thing and the thing after the thing and the thing after the thing.
Guest:It's just like,
Guest:i'll try i try to go for these walks and i just leave my cell phone behind and i just like yeah i'll just i'll listen to music and i'll just like and i just try to just do that and just like and i'm trying to just reclaim it like like a half hour at a time like you're in the walks are you not you mean you shut off all that shit like i don't bring my phone with me i mean but do you wonder who's calling
Guest:it's hard sometimes i'm just kind of like you just get because it's that motion that thing you know did your leg ever feel like you feel the vibration and you don't even have your phone in your pocket yeah it's phantom phone what's going on with that it's like that's a new thing for the human condition is the idea like oh yeah i felt uh my upper thigh uh vibrate oh my phone's not in my pocket
Guest:What is that?
Marc:That's like a sickness, right?
Marc:But I know exactly what you're talking about.
Marc:It's that fucking dread, dude.
Marc:In terms of the present, something's gone wrong with my brain or gone right.
Marc:I can't figure it out.
Marc:I can't figure out whether I've had some sort of partial stroke or something's eating up my brain.
Marc:But I'm no longer capable, I think, out of pure survival instinct to think more than a day or two in advance.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I can't do it.
Marc:I can't like, cause it used to be my whole life.
Marc:Like I'd look at my calendar and I'd see a gig two, two weeks away and be the only gig I had.
Marc:So I'd spend that two weeks thinking like, this is going to fucking suck.
Marc:Where do I got to, you know what I mean?
Marc:And I just completely dismantle my existence around this thing.
Marc:And I can't, I just can't do it anymore.
Marc:So like by some virtue of, of, of age or, or some brain problem, I have to stay relatively, I have to stay within the pretty, I don't wake up freaking out anymore.
Marc:I don't, I don't go to sleep freaking out.
Marc:I've been stressed because I got to write a book, which I don't think I'm doing a great job with.
Marc:Cause I'm, I'm sort of doing it piecemeal and I'm trying to, you know, just wrangle it, you know, from, you know, monologues and from experience and that stuff, but I've been so fucking busy.
Marc:So that's sort of hanging over me.
Marc:That's the whale.
Yeah.
Marc:The other stuff is all very immediate.
Marc:When you do a radio show, it's sort of like, I'm doing that, and then there it is.
Marc:It's done.
Marc:But the stuff that hangs over you, what about that thing?
Guest:Or even the larger... If there's three tiers to these things, there's what's going on this week.
Guest:There's what's going on over this three-month period, say.
Guest:And then there's the larger one.
Guest:It's just like...
Guest:what, what am I doing?
Guest:Like, what's my professional existence?
Guest:Right.
Marc:What is like, and then there's, and then you're not even addressing the plumbing.
Marc:Like, you know, I got to get that thing fixed in my house.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And my car needs that thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then there's that whole other thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's like how emails, how can I, how can I stay present when I'm thinking of those three things?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, yeah.
Guest:Is it not an, is it not a luxury afforded to me?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where I am not,
Guest:That is not possible?
Marc:Why are we on the boat if we're not going to try to kill the whale?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Well, why are we on the boat?
Guest:Somebody's got to...
Guest:If you can kind of turn, it's like when they turn those oil rigs, like the giant tankers around, it's like it takes them 10 miles to turn 10 feet.
Guest:That's what it feels like for me.
Guest:It's like, man, I cannot turn the ship around.
Guest:I can't do a 180 on these things.
Guest:It takes like...
Guest:like and it just point okay i'm slightly pointing more in the right direction i guess i'll take this that might have to be enough for what i what i can do here oh god yeah i don't know what do you got what's the rest of the day look like a couple meetings what time what i have a like a three o'clock
Guest:where i don't even know my they my agent just puts the stuff together and i just go where the things are i think that we should submit this for a morning show okay a national morning show all right so what would that go to uh what are the radio networks i don't know i just think it's a good demo tape that this tape is like could you imagine this conversation in the morning do you want to do the weather
Guest:It's nice out.
Marc:It's nice out.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Let's end it up.
Marc:Let's end it up.
Marc:Let's end it.
Marc:Let's close it.
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:And I'm Tom Sharpling.
Marc:And it's a Mark and Tom morning show or afternoon.
Marc:I think maybe Art Bell's time slot would be the place to do it.
Guest:Coast to coast with Mark and Tom.
Guest:From 12 to 6.
Guest:Send it to George Norrie.
Guest:We've only got to do five more hours.
Guest:They do.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That guy talks forever.
Guest:How does he do?
Guest:Like they literally do.
Guest:I think I do three hours a week.
Guest:You do two hours.
Guest:Hour, hour and a half.
Guest:But it's like.
Guest:That dude's like doing six hours a night.
Guest:And then they do like weekend shows.
Guest:Like some other guy.
Guest:It's like.
Guest:man those shows and that like there was one thing that was very touching is that george nori's like i gotta do the show on christmas because uh i know there's people having a rough christmas and like this show helps them it's like very touching to me but it just made me think of like then he talks about aliens yeah like the ufo dude
Guest:who didn't have anywhere to go on Christmas.
Guest:I could start crying thinking about the guy who's kind of like, well, you know, talking about Area 51 or all those things.
Guest:And then he's just like, well, I guess I'm not going home for Christmas again.
Guest:Another Christmas in the basement apartment.
Guest:By myself.
Guest:Oh, thank God.
Guest:George Norrie's on tonight.
Guest:Count down the hours.
Guest:It's happening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's happening.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, maybe we can get the George Norrie slot.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:That's what we're shooting for.
Marc:All right, man.
FBI CIA FBI CIA FBI FBI FBI FBI When you build a balloon main street The thing a modern name was meant to represent Now it's gone, now it's gone, now it's gone It's a lie