BONUS The Friday Show - Never Late to the Party
Marc:So I knew nothing about this.
Marc:Even to this day, I didn't know anything about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, to the point where two weeks ago, you're like, I didn't get to watch a lot of movies that had sex in them when I was a kid.
Guest:And so I thought I'd watch this.
Guest:And I was like, kind of famously has no sex.
Yeah.
Marc:Hey, Chris.
Marc:Friend.
Marc:How are you doing?
Marc:I'm good.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:I'm great.
Marc:How was your Thanksgiving?
Marc:Good.
Marc:We both did it.
Marc:We both hosted and it went well, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was actually like the most calm experience I've had.
Guest:yeah same me too we we got through it real smoothly and like the the food was all great and everyone was happy and no issues and like i i couldn't believe it i'm i think it's like people are like just like desperate for like a good time yeah so they're like oh what you oh you served me a plate of warm shit fine sounds great
Marc:You're awesome.
Marc:What a rock star.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And apparently Mark went to see his dad and had basically a very lovely time.
Marc:It was a very, very calm Thanksgiving episode.
Guest:Yeah, I liked his preamble.
Guest:I thought it was very good, very appropriate.
Guest:And based on the feedback we got, also very helpful.
Guest:I think that's the kind of thing people needed to hear.
Guest:Not like a, you know, what you got to do to like armor up and protect yourself or whatever.
Guest:Like, no, a good old like gratitude pep talk was just what the doctor ordered, I think.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I also love that Mark couldn't ID his voice coming out of whatever machine.
Marc:Not only couldn't ID it, was disdainful of it.
Marc:Like he was like, oh, what the fuck is this?
Marc:That should probably set alarm bells off.
Marc:Who's that fucking guy?
Marc:It's like live by the sword, die by the sword, you know?
Marc:Totally.
Marc:By the way, if I hear my voice anywhere, I'm just like, oh, please let this go away.
Marc:I just want to light the whole place on fire.
Marc:Oh, that's funny.
Marc:You just don't like hearing yourself.
Marc:No.
Marc:Does anyone like hearing themselves?
Marc:Like, do you, I mean, you have to unfortunately edit this episode.
Guest:So yeah, it's like, it's, it's a neutral experience for me.
Guest:It's like, I'm editing some other guy.
Guest:Like it's totally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like any, anytime I hear my voice, it's, it's like, it's like, okay, there's that guy.
Guest:And then there's another speaker.
Guest:That's another guy.
Guest:Like, I don't, I don't listen to it and be like,
Guest:oh man, listen to how I sound.
Guest:Like, no, I'm used to many voices in my head all the time and making sure that the audio is okay.
Marc:Ah, well, you're a well-adjusted person.
Marc:By the way, I loved hearing your voice memo to Mark.
Marc:That was superb.
Guest:It was so good.
Guest:I, I, I long ago learned that I have to do that.
Guest:Uh, I have to send him a voice memo of how to say the name because I used to try to print it, to put it in phonetically the way you do.
Guest:Well, even phonetically was terrible.
Guest:That didn't work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cause he'd say something that like wasn't phonetic and, and yeah,
Guest:Also, what didn't work was if you tried it the way you're supposed to do it in news pronunciation, where you do like dictionary style pronunciation guide, meaning you put the set, if it's like a multi-syllable word, you put the part of the, you put the syllable that's supposed to be emphasized in all caps.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's like if it's Lopresto, it would be like little O, then all caps, P-R-E-S, and then small T-O.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So you put the emphasis on the press, right?
Guest:Lopresto.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he could never get it.
Guest:Not once.
Guest:what's an example of it going disastrously well just if he saw lopresto he'd be like lopresto like he he would never do it ever and he would like eventually he was like say to me he's like i i'm sorry it's just my fucking brain i can't it doesn't work that way like
Guest:I was like, okay, that's not, that's not your problem, dude.
Guest:It's my, I can work around it.
Guest:I'll figure out a different way.
Guest:So I just send him audio now.
Marc:That's great.
Guest:In a pinch, in a pinch, what will work, but it couldn't work with this guy because his name is Guadagnino.
Guest:Like it's not, it doesn't rhyme with anything because what will work in a pinch is like rhymes with, you know, and, and, and you just, you know, come up with the closest possible rhyme, no matter how ridiculous.
Guest:rhymes with skateboard yeah yeah whatever whatever it would be like if it was like dwight yokum you'd be like rhymes with uh fight woke him like you just you know you just gotta like fight like get there but but that doesn't always work
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:Well, there were two weeks of WTF episodes that we haven't talked about.
Marc:Yes, we were in our beekeeper hive last week.
Marc:Yes, we were.
Marc:We didn't link up.
Marc:I hope everyone in the hive really enjoyed the beekeeper talk.
Guest:I mean, it's not the worst after Thanksgiving thing to watch, I admit, as much as it was not my favorite movie.
Guest:Knowing what people watch out there these days, yeah.
Guest:You know, putting the beekeeper on when you have a turkey coma seems fine.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that week of Thanksgiving, you had two, like, comics, like, on the show.
Marc:And it was just mechanics talking shop.
Marc:I actually felt uncomfortable at times just being, like, listening to this show just because I was like, oh, man, they're talking about shit that is kind of over my head.
Marc:But they're, like...
Marc:It's like a comfortable conversation that I'm a third wheel at.
Marc:But I really enjoyed the Anthony Jeselnik and the Steve Fury.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, that one was crazy to me.
Guest:I mean, with Jeselnik, I knew what to expect because, you know, he's been on the show before.
Guest:He's a known guy.
Guest:I didn't know Steve Fury.
Guest:I'm assuming a lot of people didn't.
Guest:But man, those are some crazy stories.
Guest:What?
Marc:I mean, those drug stories, man.
Marc:First of all.
Guest:telling those drug stories knowing that your mom is listening like that was wild to me i i have to imagine she has heard them before i don't know i guess i wouldn't dare that'd be a hell of a thanksgiving surprise hey ma tune in to me on the famous podcast uh tomorrow during the have the whole family listen yes that's
Marc:the thing she had all of her friends listening to a story about him getting drugs and you know finding out that someone od that he was the last person that that saw him like real monkey's paw wish on her part there oh my son he's gonna be on the mark marin podcast it's gonna be so fantastic
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:That was incredible.
Marc:I also really enjoyed Mark and Steve talking about where they would go to poop at the, at the comedy store.
Marc:I think it was the comedy store.
Marc:And just love like, Oh, I don't know.
Marc:You go upstairs.
Marc:You can just go upstairs.
Marc:I really enjoyed that.
Marc:Cause if it's definitely something that I think about all the time.
Guest:Oh, well that's a, that's a workplace thing for sure.
Guest:Like everyone has their workplace place that they, that they use, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:When I worked at MSNBC, on our floor, there were three bathrooms.
Guest:There was like a men's room, a woman's room, and an ADA compliant room, right?
Guest:So that's like you could put a wheelchair in it.
Marc:Oh, that's a good one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I first got there and like, hey, look, I maybe I'm sharing a little too much here, but but I'm a guy who, you know, I usually my like, you know, my regularity is is in the middle of the day.
Guest:It's not at the beginning of the day.
Guest:It's not at the end of the day.
Guest:And I'm a pretty regular guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, and I, so I use, I, when I'm going to a workplace, I need a work bathroom.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the, both the men's and women's room on that floor are like one of those, like two stallers where you're like right up on somebody else.
Guest:So it's like, if you're doing your business in there, you're sharing it with someone else.
Guest:If there's any other person in there.
Guest:So I always thought it's a courteous thing.
Yeah.
Guest:To not use that one if I need to do something else.
Guest:And, you know, hey, maybe I'll walk to the end of the other side, the other wing of the building and use the big bathroom that's by the commissary or something.
Guest:That'd be fine.
Guest:But if I need to go and it's quick and whatever, I'm going to use the ADA one.
Guest:I know we got nobody with a wheelchair on this floor.
Guest:And so I'm going to use that one.
Guest:And so I started using that one and nobody's the wiser.
Guest:Like I'm not like putting an advertisement out when I go there.
Guest:But then one day somebody saw me coming out of there and they're like, oh, are you using that bathroom?
Guest:And I'm like, yeah, is that cool?
Guest:It's like, I mean, if somebody needed it with a wheelchair, I wouldn't go in or whatever.
Guest:And they're like, uh...
Guest:No, it's probably okay, but that's, like, Rachel Maddow uses that bathroom, and, like, so nobody else uses it.
Guest:Wait, what?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I'm, like, the generally new guy over there, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And they said that to me, and I was, like, so fucking what?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, two smart people make smart decisions.
Marc:What else do you want to know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, I was, like, Rachel can knock if she wants me out of there.
Guest:Like...
Guest:Hey, hurry up in there.
Guest:Don't read the New York Times or whatever.
Guest:I got to go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Also, it was just so funny.
Guest:They were in such.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:He's going to use Rachel's bathroom.
Guest:I was like, yeah, I'd use Rachel's bathroom right after her.
Guest:I'd tip my cap.
Guest:How do you do, madam?
Guest:And walk in.
Guest:I'd have a newspaper under my arm and everything.
Yeah.
Guest:yeah I just I don't think people understand like Rachel and I used to go to the worst bar in New York together just for shitty after work drinks like we are fine with using the same bathroom it's not it's not an issue whatsoever we sat on the ledge of the building and watched you go down 6th Avenue doing the thriller dance at the Halloween parade so you know I'm good with me and Rachel using the same bathroom
Marc:But also, everyone should know that's the move.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's what you do if you need to do the business.
Marc:Guys, this isn't rocket science.
Guest:You guys can go to the outhouse.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:I'm going to be in the comfy bathroom with a railing.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I wonder if Rachel has her own bathroom now at MSNBC.
Guest:Yeah, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, maybe that is her own bathroom.
Marc:Maybe everyone back down.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:But besides Steve's talking about drugs and everything, I just really enjoyed so much going on with that guy.
Marc:Really, really look forward to watching his stand-up.
Marc:Anthony Jeselnik...
Marc:Again, there was all this talk about—and look, forgive me.
Marc:I don't know shit about the Joe Rogan compound.
Marc:All I know is that my brother-in-law likes it and has visited there.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:When they were talking about that stuff, I was just like, wow, it's weird—
Marc:Now the comedy world is split in two sides, like politics is and how baseball always has been.
Marc:And it just kind of sucks.
Marc:Oh, it sure does suck.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know how to stitch anything back together.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Look, hey, I don't know.
Guest:There's a guy who, you know, is the head of that branch and he is like proudly displaying that he like helped elect the president.
Guest:So, you know, I don't know.
Guest:It is what it is now.
Guest:It's a part.
Guest:They are the dominant cultural paradigm.
Guest:And I don't think, you know, that's controversial.
Guest:It just is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I do agree with Jesselnik and also Marin.
Marc:Arenas are super weird to see a comic in.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I went and saw John Mulaney at where the Islanders play.
Marc:What's that?
Marc:The NASA?
Marc:Oh, UBS Arena?
Marc:Yeah, UBS.
Marc:That was the biggest experience.
Marc:Although I think I've seen MSG and stuff.
Marc:But it is just super awkward.
Marc:What's the biggest place you've ever seen a comic?
Guest:I saw Amy Schumer at MSG and it was fine.
Guest:It's fine.
Guest:It was a fine show.
Guest:She did a great job.
Guest:But it's here's what I will say.
Guest:I have been to a lot of comedy shows in my life where I remember almost every joke that was said.
Guest:I can like sit there and recite the routine just because it was so memorable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Those are usually in like a smaller venue or a theater or something.
Guest:I can't tell you a single thing Amy Schumer said at that event.
Guest:And it wasn't because she wasn't funny.
Guest:It's almost like the memory dissipated in the space of the room.
Guest:It's like it happened.
Guest:It went into my head.
Guest:And then you're in this giant expanse of a place and it just kind of floated away the way it would if you were watching a basketball game or something.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, I think about that with music too.
Marc:Like if, you know, I thought about going to see Taylor Swift at this latest, you know, her errors tour.
Marc:And I was thinking like, well, my tickets would probably be in the nosebleeds.
Marc:And I'm pretty sure I would not remember a single thing because I wouldn't be able to see anything.
Guest:You'd be watching a screen.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So at that point, just watch the screen in your house that has the same concert.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:That's why I like concerts in very tight venues where I can actually see the person.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I always liked, whenever I would go to a music festival with friends, like when I was a kid, I would always go to the second stage.
Guest:I didn't care who the headliner was on the main stage.
Guest:I wanted to be at the small second stage.
Marc:Yeah, I did that too.
Marc:I did that too.
Marc:Dude, I love the bonus episodes that you're doing.
Marc:The failures episode, the epic failures.
Marc:Dude, listening to some of those, like having Bob from Bob's Burgers tell this amazing story was just- That's one of my favorites of all time.
Guest:It's so good.
Guest:that story is so great and and there's a thing that he says he quotes and i don't know that this is an accurate quote when his friend's dad left a message for them yeah and he said sam cedar recorded it and i i i say it all the time like like when i'm not really angry but i'm pretending to be angry at someone he said his his friend's dad called him a psycho fucking idiot he
Marc:that's great like that combination of of curse words is just so perfect you psycho fucking idiot that's perfect holy shit that story was incredible uh terry gross i love that story i was there for that one that was yeah you that's right you were
Marc:That was really cool to be in attendance for a WTF, for one thing, but also the fact that Mark was able to get Terry to new heights and new places.
Marc:I just loved that.
Marc:So obviously, I feel like I've talked about that, but I'm sure no one listens to every episode.
Marc:Terry Gross episode was awesome.
Marc:That story was great.
Marc:Chris Gethardt.
Marc:That story, first of all, Ocean Grove, that's a beach town that I know you have been to.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:We vacationed there.
Marc:Yeah, that was a great story.
Marc:And him talking about this Two Bridges Road.
Marc:I remember listening to that, I think, recently.
Marc:But, dude, that's over near my house.
Marc:I'm going to go to Two Bridges Road this weekend just to see the land.
Guest:To see if that guy's kin are around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The ghost of that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What a fucking story.
Marc:Are the cars still sticking up out of the swamp?
Marc:Yeah, like Carhenge.
Marc:I think that's like an actual thing.
Marc:I'm pretty sure that was a trivia question in Learned League.
Guest:Well, there is a car henge on Route 66 that's a similar thing.
Guest:I don't know that it's in the woods, but there's definitely a Route 66, I don't know, Arizona or New Mexico or something.
Guest:But yeah, I always wanted to go out there and see that, the one that's in Jersey there.
Guest:I always like the idea that in the moment he put together that this guy kills people, throws them in the swamp, and then...
Guest:Hand delivers their car vertically into the swamp.
Guest:Like his trophies.
Guest:It seemed really reasonable though.
Yeah.
Guest:this is the exact reason why i'm like oh i gotta put these things together as like one thing because like i have these memories from having listened to all this stuff so much and i know listeners out there do the same thing and i'm not gonna make the same collection that any listener would make in their brain but i hope it's like representative of like
Guest:Like when you listen to that, it's 50 minutes, 50 an hour or whatever they wind up being.
Guest:Like, I want that to feel like you just had the most representative time with our guests.
Guest:You know, like this is like the ideal version of what you get out of listening to the guests on the show.
Marc:And here it is in like this concentrated form.
Marc:And man, like Natasha's story about, I mean, still in love with this guy, it seems like.
Guest:I love that Mark.
Marc:kept saying that you're impressed with this guy she's like naming him yeah you got a kick out of him and of course danny mcbride fucking legendary story that he told it's also
Guest:it's legendary in two parts because the thing about quit about asking for the day off of the, from the restaurant and, and hugging the guy who didn't want to hug like that alone, you could stop right there.
Guest:And that's already like a time.
Guest:top 10 story but the whole thing about the rescue mission and all that like all the little details yeah why you know he's like a it's a real story and b like this is why this guy like makes movies and makes comedies like he gets the idea of like the details that that you know that the spice that makes the soup you know yeah and and like that idea that they're driving and satisfaction is playing on the radio you
Guest:And he's like, we can have no hesitation.
Guest:So great.
Guest:And then it's like waiting in.
Guest:Hey, why don't you get in the car?
Guest:And I also love the detail that the one friend who is holding the baseball bat just had it taken straight from his hands.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Just frozen.
Guest:I love that.
Guest:I mean, we're going to talk about a Coen Brothers movie in a little bit here.
Guest:And it reminded me of like a Coen Brothers movie story where like, you know, like Brad Pitt in Burn After Reading or something.
Guest:Like, I got this big plan and then he just gets shot in the head.
Guest:Totally.
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, you're the guy crying at the Crocodile Cafe.
Guest:Just the Crocodile Cafe detail is so fun.
Guest:It really does make it.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And it's like that restaurant's not there anymore.
Guest:It's like, hey, don't even tell me if it ever existed.
Guest:I would be totally fine if you made that up.
Guest:Like, that's a perfect detail.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Do you have any like epic failures in your life?
Guest:Oh, gosh.
Guest:I mean, I'm sure I do.
Guest:But, you know, nothing that rises to the level of being told as, like, an amazingly fun story.
Guest:Like, I'm sure, as I've said to you before, it's like my one good story is, like, riding the elevator with OJ.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, like, I can tell that, like, a story.
Guest:Like, it's, like, the same with you with your...
Guest:food co-op story like you practice it you get you get reaction from people and like okay i'm good to go i got my i got my cocktail party story but like yeah i don't think i don't have the collection of amazing events in my head that i can craft as a narrative like oh this is a great story it's probably just something sad and embarrassing for me
Marc:Yeah, I mean, most of my stories are sad and embarrassing.
Marc:Like, I have an epic failure of... Remember when Applebee's used to do, like, all-you-can-eat, like, riblets or something, or, like, wings?
Marc:Like, I went there with, like, my girlfriend at the time, and I was like, hey, never been to Applebee's.
Marc:Let's do this all-you-can-eat thing.
Marc:And I kept on ordering riblets, and the waitress would, like, begrudgingly be like, uh-huh, sure.
Marc:And...
Marc:You know, they would come out and like, you know, there used to be like six at a time, then like three at a time, then like one on a plate.
Marc:One riblet?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I was like, this fucking place.
Marc:Fuck this place.
Marc:I'm going to dine and dash.
Marc:Let's dine and dash.
Marc:And so we do it.
Marc:We dine and dash.
Marc:I get in the car.
Marc:Look for my phone.
Marc:I left my phone in the Applebee's, in the booth.
Marc:Yeah, it was like one of those flip phones.
Marc:And I had to like walk back like, oh, hey, I left my phone like, oh, what?
Marc:We didn't pay.
Marc:What?
Marc:My girlfriend didn't pay.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I forgot everything today.
Marc:Where's my head at?
Guest:Exactly, exactly.
Marc:It's actually an easier one for you to wriggle out of.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:But yeah, it's still an epic failure of my part for being a good human and also.
Guest:I also don't understand what their issue was.
Guest:It says all you can eat ribs or whatever.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:What's the deal?
Marc:Yeah, I don't know.
Marc:But, like, they did not, she did not enjoy me asking for more riblets.
Marc:So, I don't know.
Marc:What the fuck?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, like, hey, I got an idea.
Guest:Take it off the menu then.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just use a Sharpie, cross it out.
Marc:We don't serve those here.
Marc:I think they have taken that off of the menu now.
Marc:Well, yeah, but that's like corporate Applebee's.
Guest:This is like the Staten Island Mall Applebee's.
Guest:If the lady don't like it, she can put a blank space over that on the menu or something.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:But Dwight Yoakam, I should say.
Marc:Great episode.
Marc:So much singing in this episode.
Marc:I always like when that happens.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I was not surprised to read that they listened to records after the episode.
Marc:I was like, yeah, of course they did.
Marc:And I guess he was...
Marc:Did Mark say that he was impressed with his speakers?
Marc:I don't think he did.
Marc:But anyway.
Guest:I think he said more like Mark was kind of embarrassed for thinking he would be impressed by them.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Here's what I will say about that episode.
Guest:And I don't want to take anything away from any enjoyment you had about it or anyone else.
Guest:That is one I always will regret.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:that I didn't have more time with it.
Guest:It was no fault of anything other than the process that we normally have.
Guest:And it was one of a very, very rare amount of times.
Guest:I can think of maybe like three other times where it's happened, where I've been working on an episode and I'm like, you know, I've said...
Guest:that Mark and I talk after every interview.
Guest:And that way, if he's talking to me and he's like, like with Courtney love, for example, he's like, that was just crazy.
Guest:That was hard.
Guest:Like I gave myself a couple extra days on that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And,
Guest:with this he was like wow he was all fired up and he like mark was really jazzed about the talk and they like he told me it was long but he was like oh it all you know it was a big long story and history lesson and everything and i saw the length of it it was like two hours raw material that he gave me and i'm like okay it's long but mark's telling me it's okay like it's it's fine and it's not that it wasn't fine
Guest:But I found myself starting it in the process I normally do, which is the day before that we're going to post it is when I edit it.
Guest:And I wish I had an additional day because I would have gone back and listened again.
Guest:I would have made sure that...
Guest:everything was legible everything was like I still feel like I didn't have a full grasp on everything he was talking about and it's like if I feel that way I know some listeners do and I know some people will wind up going like
Guest:Man, I couldn't follow this one.
Guest:Or they were dropping too many names.
Guest:Or there were all these connections that I had to loop back to at the beginning of the episode.
Guest:And sometimes people are totally fine.
Guest:They just let it wash over them.
Guest:But I wish I had more time to make sure everything was tight.
Guest:And that if they took...
Guest:you know, tangents.
Guest:I could have made that stand out more.
Guest:I could have repositioned it or something.
Guest:It was like, like there's this part toward the beginning where he says something about the guy, Chris, who was in the birds and they're on this radio show.
Guest:And I was like, I was like listening to it over and over again.
Guest:I was like, is this clear what he's talking about here?
Guest:And then it comes up again later.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So like, I couldn't take it out of that earlier part because I knew I needed it for the later part.
Guest:Right.
Guest:but I'm like, I don't know if anybody's going to make this connection that it's the same guy he's talking about from an hour ago.
Guest:And I just wish I had more time with it.
Marc:I understand that.
Guest:And like, but like, I think you kind of have to just let it, let it be, you know, in a way too, like a lot of times what we always say is like, these things are like the essence of a person and that like this guy, that's his style is like, he's a, he's one of those like,
Guest:You know, we had somebody else who was on like that recently.
Guest:Who was it?
Guest:Oh, that guy, Jimmy Dale Gilmore.
Guest:Like, it's the same type of thing.
Guest:Like their brains get clicked into like a response.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Lights up a synapse that goes to another response.
Guest:And then they they're they're little like ping pong balls.
Guest:They're chasing those things all over the place.
Guest:And you just got to kind of be like, OK, that's how this is.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And I feel like this episode was definitely one of those.
Marc:But I was able to catch the ping pong before it hit me in the face.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:And I made a Sonic playlist for this one.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:I was literally thinking that when it was happening, I was like, oh, man, I don't know if Chris is going to be able to do this one more.
Marc:You know what helped?
Marc:The non-Fulmarin feed has the... The transcript.
Marc:The transcript.
Marc:So I was able to catch the names.
Marc:So yeah, I'm getting real good at it.
Marc:But yeah, I'm sure you'll put that in the liner notes for this episode.
Marc:But there's a lot of...
Marc:A lot of good stuff happening in that episode.
Marc:I really loved Marin's just reiterating.
Marc:It's like, oh, you need to be a special kind of asshole to be married twice and have no kids.
Marc:Like, just love that line.
Marc:It kills me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I didn't know that there was a cow punk scene.
Marc:Like, I've never heard of those two words together.
Guest:No, I hadn't either until I researched Dwight Yoakam.
Guest:Like, basically, that was the first, like, he's my first experience with that as a style.
Guest:And really, I mean, like, I think that is the value of him as a guy who keeps all this stuff in his head is that, you know, I don't know that there's many other people other than him that could tell the story as thoroughly as he did.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:I actually found it fascinating when he was talking about assembling the band and his drummer, Richard Coffey, I think his name was, believed in him and was like, okay, I can see this guy has talent.
Marc:I'm going to continue being the drummer for this band.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's like, it's a two-way street.
Marc:It's like talent needs to also have talent, you know?
Marc:So I found that really interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:um yeah i noticed he he pointed that out a lot that it was like he you know he remembered the people that were around him that were like oh i'll take a i'll bet on this guy exactly you know there's that that executive that the guy who wrote for la times or whatever and he was also a record executive and then he was like inviting people to see him and then people came and they were like oh this guy he's gonna be riding limousines i loved that like this guy's got limousines in his future like i love that holy shit yeah
Guest:What a turn of phrase.
Guest:I think that was Dave Alvin from The Blasters, too, who said that, which is great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I also like that Dwight likes music.
Marc:I think I wrote it down because it can help us understand how much we have in common.
Marc:And honestly, dude, I feel that way about movies.
Marc:I don't feel that way about music to the level that Dwight does, but I feel that way about movies.
Marc:And that's why I love going to movies and just watching movies.
Marc:I can connect with
Marc:my life or just something to what's on the screen.
Guest:Well, great segue there, because we assigned ourselves a little task this week to each watch a movie.
Guest:And if you hadn't been with us on the Friday show a couple of weeks ago, we said what we were going to do every so often is find something that each of us has never seen.
Guest:And, you know, as Mark has always said, there's no late to the party anymore.
Guest:And so, especially in this modern environment, you can kind of find anything anywhere you want.
Guest:Although I will, I have a bone to pick with your selection, Chris.
Guest:What?
Guest:It's not streaming anywhere.
Guest:I had to buy the fucking thing.
Marc:Oh, no.
Marc:I'm so sorry.
Marc:Did you buy it?
Marc:I borrowed it from our buddy, Chris.
Marc:Oh, look at you.
Marc:Yeah, I'm so sorry.
Guest:Borrowed, like actually handed over a disc?
Marc:A physical disc.
Marc:Man, when I did this, I was like, man, I really miss just video stores.
Marc:And I think we should bring it back.
Marc:We should bring back physical media.
Marc:But yeah, I'm sorry you had to buy that one, my friend.
Marc:Well, that's right.
Marc:It's a good movie.
Marc:I didn't mind watching it again.
Guest:But we will get to your movie in a moment.
Guest:I will start off by saying I had the option to watch on Paramount Plus or the Criterion channel, the movie I selected, which was the 2010 remake of True Grit directed by the Coen Brothers.
Guest:And it remains the only Coen Brothers movie up until this week that I had never seen.
Guest:Um, I, I'm a completist with the Coen brothers.
Guest:They're among my favorite filmmakers, uh, to ever live.
Guest:Uh, I believe no country for old men might be the best movie ever made, but it just so happened that true grit fell into a period of my life where I was not able to go to the movies a lot.
Guest:It was like baby zone, you know, like you're, you're, and I, I believe I was also starting a new job right at that time.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:End of 2010.
Guest:Yeah, that was when I started working at MSNBC.
Guest:So yeah, it was just like not in the cards for me to go to the movies and see that.
Guest:And then by the time it was available to watch at home, you know, newborn baby, just not getting on top of those things anymore.
Guest:And it passed me by.
Guest:And I will say, I wasn't like...
Guest:Really jacked up to go watch it because the last outing of the Coen brothers doing a remake of something of an already existing movie was their worst film, The Lady Killers.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:And, and it just didn't, it felt to me like this is not the style I like to watch them work in.
Guest:I don't like to watch them try to recreate something that already existed.
Guest:I like their own ideas.
Guest:I like them working from the ground up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I think I also like, was like, I've seen them do a Western already.
Guest:Like I've seen their, their take on, on, on Western style iconography.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I don't know.
Guest:I just kind of, you know, didn't ever grab me to go back and watch it.
Guest:And so like I took the opportunity that we were doing this exercise.
Guest:Well, this is a good time for me to watch True Grit, the 2010 version.
Guest:Have you had you seen it before?
Marc:I saw it once before and I wasn't maybe paying attention enough or, you know, it landed fine.
Marc:I thought the cinematography was good because I am a fan of the cinematographer, Roger Deakins.
Marc:And, you know, and it got me thinking, I don't know how I became a fan of Roger Deakins.
Marc:I think I just like his movies and I can tell how a Roger Deakins movie.
Marc:but anyway yeah i think you're right is that is that just what it is like i think so i i mean he's very distinctive he he also like he puts himself out there he does commentaries he does a podcast you know like i think you just generally know his stuff yeah so i remember liking it for that and not really paying attention to the the plotting of it i knew it was a john wayne you know uh remake and everything uh but i
Marc:I did sit down and watch it this week.
Marc:I realized that the plot of this movie, or at least the premise of the movie, of this young girl whose dad is killed and seeks someone to avenge his death, it's
Marc:The premise of one of my favorite comic book stories.
Marc:It's this comic book story called Supergirl, Woman of Tomorrow.
Marc:And it's basically the same exact premise.
Marc:It then splits off from there.
Marc:It's a sci-fi comic book.
Marc:But yeah, the seeds are there for the exact same sort of premise.
Marc:So that's something that I noticed this time around.
Marc:But what did you think?
Guest:Well, first off, I will say that I want to... Everyone out there listening to this, it does not have to be True Grit.
Guest:It does not have to be a Coen Brothers movie.
Guest:It just, you know, doesn't have to have any specificity to it.
Guest:But I cannot recommend more highly than the next time you're thinking of, you know, going to the movies, watching a movie, whatever...
Guest:Go into your either mental Rolodex or, like, just pick out, hey, who's one of my, like, a filmmaker I really like or an actor I really love?
Guest:And then look at their filmography and find something you haven't seen before.
Guest:Because I can't tell you how much joy it brought me to basically watch a new Coen Brothers movie.
Guest:Like...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I might have reacted to this the same way you did when you saw that.
Guest:It kind of landed fine, and I enjoyed it.
Guest:Watching it this time, it was like an oasis.
Guest:Yeah, fun, right?
Guest:I couldn't believe it.
Guest:I teared up several times in it, just at the sheer filmmaking quality of it.
Guest:I was like, this is just remarkable.
Guest:A wonderfully shot, executed film.
Guest:lived in space.
Guest:And it's very simple.
Guest:It reflects the original novel and the John Wayne movie very clearly.
Guest:And it's just basically three characters.
Guest:It's Jeff Bridges playing Rooster Cogburn and Matt Damon as Labeef, which I didn't get a chance to go and find out if in the old movie they call him Labeef.
Guest:Because it's spelled like LaBeouf, like Shia LaBeouf in the French spelling.
Guest:But the fact that not a single soul calls him anything other than LaBeef is either like, they're like, nope, they did the research and they're like, that's exactly how it would be said.
Guest:And that's how we're going to have it.
Guest:And maybe it's reflected in the previous versions.
Guest:Or it is just an absolute Coen Brothers thing.
Marc:Or they're like, nope, he's LaBeef.
Marc:Or it's like Marin where just like, I don't know, it says the beef.
Guest:No pronunciation guide would help.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And what I wasn't aware of was that really the lead role is the young girl played by Haley Steinfeld.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this was like her her first movie.
Guest:Like, I didn't realize that she had the most screen time.
Guest:She basically holds the whole narrative together and like a blow away.
Guest:Amazing performance.
Guest:It's really quite like she's a pretty famous person now, mostly like from her singing career.
Guest:I know she was on that Dickinson show and she's the voice in Spider-Man in the Spider-Verse movies.
Marc:Spider-Gwen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and she's a girlfriend of the Buffalo Bills quarterback.
Guest:Fiance, but yes.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:And so she's kind of one of these people who, to me, has been famous and I never saw her in anything other than hearing her voice in the cartoons.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so like watching this, I'm like, wait, why hasn't she had a bigger career?
Guest:Like as an actor?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:This is crazy.
Guest:She was 14 and she did that.
Guest:It's like Kirsten Dunst in a interview with the vampire where you're like, wait a minute, that's a 12 year old.
Guest:Like how is that?
Marc:How can she act?
Marc:She holds her own with like the best Jeff Bridges, Matt Damon, Josh Brolin, man.
Guest:Also, not only holding her own with those actors, but holding that Cohen style.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That like that weird affected patter that they have, especially when they go into old time.
Guest:land right like anything that's added in a different temporal space it's always heightened it's always like uh you know very mannered florid it's not easy even for the best of actors and that's why i think so many times in these coen brothers movies they're peppered with like these very specific character actors right who you don't see in other things very often but then
Guest:they show up in these things and there's like they've got crazy great faces and they can like kind of slur the lines out and you're like you're not really like registering that the stuff they're saying isn't how people talk you're just so enamored with what they look like and how the the kind of sound of the words coming out of their mouth if not the actual words so it's just it's a hard thing i don't like matt damon is funny in this movie he's great but like there is a part of me that was like
Guest:there would have been some like regular Cohen person who would have done this better than Matt Damon.
Guest:Like he's, he's in there because they needed a top of the line name, right.
Guest:A guy on the poster.
Guest:Uh, but like, like John Turturro would have been fine in that role.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And like, you know, like very funny.
Guest:Um, but like Matt Damon, totally like enjoyable in this.
Guest:It just like felt like Matt Damon was in a Cohen brothers.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He did just feel like an actor in this world where everyone else felt like a lived in, like actual character.
Guest:I also watched this and I, I'm like 1 million percent projecting here, but I was like, I bet Ben Affleck was jealous of this.
Guest:oh yeah like I bet like in one of his things like in his heart of hearts he's like why wasn't I in a Coen Brothers movie like that like he seems like the guy who would like he would appreciate it even more than Damon like Ben Affleck is such a like directory actor like he wants to be the guy who's like thought of as the Coen Brothers and like I could just picture him being like man why wasn't that me I could have done that yeah maybe that's fun
Guest:But the other thing I want to say about it, and this goes back to me saying I was worried about it when it first came out that it was a remake.
Guest:First of all, that doesn't matter.
Guest:It has basically no relation to the earlier movie.
Guest:It doesn't feel like it remade anything.
Guest:It feels totally fresh.
Guest:It feels like that...
Guest:John Wayne version might as well not have existed.
Guest:And they just made this directly from the novel.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So it's like, it feels like their adaptation of a classic Western novel, even though it's like a Western from the sixties, but, but anyway, that's how it felt in terms of being a remake, but in terms of being a Western, I'm sitting there watching this, especially because the last Coen brothers movie that we got was,
Guest:And then there'll probably never be another one because it seems like they've had some kind of falling out even though they don't directly talk about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the last one we got was The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, which I loved.
Guest:Fucking loved that movie.
Guest:And that is a full-on Western.
Guest:It's six Westerns, right?
Guest:In short story form put together.
Guest:And then I started going through it and I'm like, okay, well, No Country for Old Men is a Western.
Guest:Definitely.
Guest:And Oh Brother Where Art Thou is a Western.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You can even argue Raising Arizona is a Western, like with the way his narration, his narration is written like an old time oaky Western, right?
Guest:And I'm like, I think this is their preferred medium.
Guest:the western like i like as much as i love fargo and it's great and i love the big lebowski and they can play in all these areas like i think the western best represents what they do where they they are philosophy majors right and it's it's rampant throughout all their stuff serious man and uh hail caesar but like
Guest:that like to the ground level of like humanity of like life being cheap and what does it all mean and like the way people just die in an instant and it's like yeah well we're just gonna leave the body there like all of that stuff is so surface level in a western and they love it you can tell they're just like it's like a playground for them it's a playground for them to play around with like
Guest:The the idioms of the time I was watching this and I counted no fewer than four times people were doing something literally that is for us a figure of speech that like she needs to get money.
Guest:And so what does she go?
Guest:She does horse trading with.
Guest:the guy she's like it's literal horse trading or like what do they do when they're trying to get those guys out of that little cabin they smoke them out they literally smoke them out right it's like it's like one after another there are all these things they go like oh well we we're we're not going to be able to follow him any longer the trail's gone cold like it's literally a cold trail it's snowing out there right oh that's fucking interesting
Guest:Yeah, I just, and I'm like, they love this.
Guest:They love getting it down to, and I'm watching them, I'm thinking about, oh brother, where art thou?
Guest:And like how much they enjoy taking humanity down to its core.
Guest:Like if they could make a movie about cavemen and have it be, you know, literate, they would do it.
Guest:Like they want people at their basics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then deal with humanity from that level.
Guest:That's why The Ballad of Buster Scruggs is so fun because it's like people just figuring out the law or figuring out how to get gold and you're watching them do it in real time.
Guest:You're like, you're probably going to kill that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Take his gold.
Guest:And I just, you know, it was like a clarifying thing for me to watch this now where it's like I definitely don't think it's like one of their greatest movies, but it's great.
Guest:And like it absolutely measures up with their whole filmography.
Guest:There's nothing minor about it.
Guest:It's not like a lesser movie.
Guest:And I do feel like part of that is now being removed from getting any new Coen Brothers movies to watch this and feel like, oh, this is like a calling card of theirs.
Guest:The Western.
Guest:They do a Western as good as anybody's done a Western.
Guest:And I don't think they're regarded that way.
Guest:I hope in time people start to look at them more like, these were some of our great Western filmmakers.
Guest:These two Jews from Minnesota.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:seriously i have they ever talked about their love of westerns uh but i don't you know it's so hard that any i have two coen brothers books and they're like so elliptical and they deliberately like obfuscate and they like you know somebody asked them about like what was the point of the hat in miller's crossing and they're like ah we just thought it was funny and it's like
Guest:no, you fucking, you guys are philosophy majors.
Guest:Like I know this.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, uh, but so I, you know, I think they're a little bit like David Lynch.
Guest:They just want the stuff to speak for itself.
Guest:So they, they don't get too far into it.
Guest:Um, you know, I mean, they'll tell you where stuff came from.
Guest:They, you know, have no problem saying that the big Lebowski is just like, you know, ripped off from Raymond Chandler novels and, and I've just put in like a, you know, the body of a stoner in, in LA in the 1990s.
Guest:But like,
Guest:They are, you know, mostly willing to let this stuff speak for itself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And True Grit is a movie that I think works better now than it did at the time.
Marc:And I just found it completely compelling.
Marc:And I mean, some of those shots of like the nighttime riding of the horse.
Marc:That was so great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Holy cow.
Marc:It reminds me of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
Guest:I had the same thought.
Guest:I had this thought before it was full nightfall when there was a sunset and the horse was riding across the prairie.
Guest:And I was like, they just did that because they could.
Guest:They're like, we would like to make an indelible Western mark in this one scene.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And just to have this gorgeous shot of riding a horse into the sunset.
Marc:I mean, man, it was really beautifully done.
Marc:And I was hooked.
Marc:And the ending is great.
Marc:Totally great ending.
Marc:it really, it's one of those things where like, oh, they just nailed it.
Marc:You know, they just, they nailed the execution of it.
Marc:And I remember at the time thinking, okay, this is guy, you know, all right, it's a John Wayne movie.
Marc:And like, that sort of was in my head.
Marc:This time I was like, no, I'm watching a Coen brothers movie that, you know, and like that, that was sort of removed.
Marc:So I just really enjoyed what it was.
Marc:And yeah, it's like up there for like, you know, on like the top end, top tier
Guest:of their movies for me yeah it has it has that fun like episodic element that a lot of their best stuff has oh brother has that and and uh you know like the little kind of vignettes that happen at you know uh joel cohen writes short stories and they feel like that like you know the scene where the the the woodsman doctor with wearing the bear pelt shows up like
Guest:that's just just there you know it's like like a little scene a little like side story that's five minutes long and it's fun it doesn't have any impact on the rest of the movie but you're like i'm glad that guy was there wearing a bear totally
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:What a great... And, you know, of course, Ballad of Buster Struggs is all about that.
Marc:It's just a bunch of short stories together.
Guest:Also, both of those movies, very funny.
Guest:Like, I laughed out loud a bunch watching this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When he shows up at that, like, you know, outpost that's in the middle of the trail, it's like, you know, supposed to be a store, and there's two kids sitting out front, like, torturing a donkey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he just keeps kicking them off the post.
Guest:Like they don't make much of a sound when he does it either.
Guest:They're just kind of like, and they fall off into the dust.
Guest:I was dying.
Guest:I was also dying at like Josh Brolin.
Guest:The first time you see him and he's like,
Guest:oh hey you're you know you're maddie i know you and she's like yeah you're under arrest i'm here to arrest you and she pulls out a gun and he he does this take where he like he's in the middle of the woods in a creek and he like stops and like he like looks around for the camera like
Guest:Where's the hidden camera?
Guest:You got me.
Guest:Did Joel put you up to this?
Guest:It's a great comedic take.
Guest:And knowing who that guy is after hearing him on our show twice now, I'm like, oh, he definitely thought of that as funny.
Guest:It registered as funny to him.
Marc:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:Good call.
Marc:And I'm glad you got to watch it for the first time.
Guest:I am.
Guest:Well, now for you, you had to go back even farther.
Guest:You went back into something you missed in your childhood.
Marc:Yeah, 1989.
Marc:I mean, I was, I don't know, doing math.
Marc:I was 10 years old when this came out.
Marc:So like, definitely not on my radar.
Marc:And I remember when I, I think I was in high school when he was like out on home video.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But see, you're saying it wasn't on your radar when it came out?
Marc:I mean, I don't think so.
Marc:I was 10 years old.
Guest:I know, but that's why for me, I was the same age and it was on my radar because it was the first time, I'm pretty sure, first time in my life that people talked about a movie in the movie theaters that had the word sex in the title.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:i couldn't believe it i was like what is this movie that's out that they keep saying and people normal people are like talking about it like you know when i was a kid we walked by we when i walked to school in kew gardens queens there is a there's a movie theater now if anybody lives in new york city it's called the kew garden cinema it's a very nice movie theater they show art house films there that used to be an x-rated porno theater
Guest:legit porno theater.
Guest:And it was on the way to school.
Guest:So like we would walk by then and be like, Oh my God, that's the scary porno theater.
Guest:And so like, that was where that stuff existed in my brain was like, that's, that's for there.
Guest:Or like when you went into the video store, there was like the curtain.
Guest:What's behind that curtain?
Guest:Oh, you're not allowed in there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so that was where all that stuff was.
Guest:And then suddenly now I'm 10 and I'm aware of movies.
Guest:I didn't see R rated movies like on my own.
Guest:I didn't go to the movies and sneak into these things, but I knew when I would go to the mall and look up on the thing, what's playing.
Guest:And there's a thing that says sex and everybody was talking about it.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that, that's what I remember, but I don't remember it when it was first came out.
Marc:I remember it from home video for some reason, because I think it's because I could see the box, you know, the box had sex on it and it's, and it like, I just thought it was a pornographic movie that was just misplaced somehow.
Guest:And if we haven't said, if we haven't said the whole thing is, is obviously sex lies in videotape is what we're talking about.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Steven Soderbergh's first movie, the movie that he wrote and directed.
Marc:And I believe he also edited it.
Guest:Yeah, I think he kind of covert edits everything he does, even when there's a different name on it.
Guest:He's like the editor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He edits other people's movies like David Fincher sends him his movies and Soderbergh edits them.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:What were we going to do?
Guest:I think most of them, he gives a pass, but I think he legit edited most of the killer.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:They're not allowed to talk about it because it's breaking union rules.
Guest:But I think everybody's pretty sure that he edited the whole thing.
Marc:God, that movie is so well edited.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Unfortunately, I want to watch it again, but unfortunately it's a little too timely.
Marc:But Sex, Lies, and Videotape.
Marc:So I knew nothing about this, even to this day.
Marc:I didn't know anything about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, to the point where two weeks ago you were like, I didn't get to watch a lot of movies that had sex in them when I was a kid, and so I thought I'd watch this, and I was like, kind of famously has no sex.
Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's very sexual and, and sexy and erotic.
Guest:But, but if you were, this is like, this is like the Bart Simpson thing where they're like, we're going to go to an R rated movie.
Guest:Barton Fink.
Guest:Like it's the same thing.
Guest:Like if you were nine or 10 and you snuck into this movie, you would have like put the popcorn bucket over your head and just start banging on it.
Guest:Like it would have driven you crazy.
Yeah.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:And watching this movie for the first time, can I just say, this is the perfect movie to watch if you're a fan of WTF with Marc Maron.
Marc:Oh, interesting.
Marc:I like this.
Marc:Go on.
Marc:Dude, it's about a guy who talks to people, in this case, in the movie, women exclusively, but he talks to these women, he listens, and...
Marc:And he asks questions and they open up to him because they feel safe with him one-on-one.
Marc:It's like the seed of your show.
Marc:It's like, hey, let's get someone in a room.
Marc:And we'll talk to them and see what happens.
Marc:And that's what makes WTF so special, in my opinion.
Marc:It's so intimate.
Marc:All of these conversations that James Spader is having with these women and recording them on these videotapes, they're so very personal and intimate.
Marc:And, you know, if there's someone there, if there's just like a friend there, like it would never be able to get to that.
Guest:Well, it's like the revolutionary thing about this at the time, I think, was people being like, oh, the man is interested in hearing women talk about where they get pleasure from, right?
Guest:Like, what are your desires?
Guest:Like, it's not about the man's... The man is only getting gratification if they say this stuff, right?
Guest:So, and like...
Guest:that the it's also you cannot divorce this from the time frame and this idea of videotape and personal camcorders like this was a new and weird thing for people this was it was thought of as like aberrant if you were like taping sex right which there's something to bring this bring up in a second about that but like
Guest:The idea that they were doing this was like this kind of forbidden zone of like, I guess you could liken it to how like people thought like, are you going to have virtual reality sex now that there's virtual reality?
Guest:Like it was the same thing with this.
Guest:Like, you know, like, oh, this is like a new weird way to have sex, you know, like.
Guest:talking through a camera you know the the idea that the technology was mediating this sexual experience was like important and here was was this guy is just like i'm just gonna listen like i want you to and and they volunteer all the stuff right
Marc:Right, and they do it willingly.
Marc:Like, they don't, you know, like, it's because this is a person who is not like these men of the time, these alpha males, I'd say.
Marc:You know, these guys who are like, hey, I'm going to go to power lunch and, you know, talk about girls, even though I have a wife at home.
Marc:Like, these mad men type of men.
Marc:Like, here's someone who actually just...
Marc:actually having a conversation with me and listening to me.
Marc:And like, it makes such a difference.
Marc:And this guy who's not like them and, you know, gets, you know, gets the girl, you know.
Guest:But here's, here's my question is, do you think he's a good guy?
Marc:Do I think that he's a good guy?
Marc:I don't think I put it in terms like that.
Marc:I don't think he's the hero of the story.
Marc:I think Andy McDowell is the protagonist in the movie.
Marc:But is he a good guy?
Guest:Like I almost feel, I'll lay my cards on the table.
Guest:It's like I was watching it this time and I'm like, I think he's supposed to be kind of like the devil.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh, I see.
Marc:Like Adam and Eve type of thing.
Guest:Yes, right.
Guest:He rides into town in his lone horse, right?
Guest:He has nothing, right?
Guest:It's like the Al Pacino devil, right?
Guest:There's nothing.
Guest:Where does he fuck?
Guest:Everywhere!
Guest:Right.
Guest:This guy, nowhere.
Guest:He can't.
Guest:But like...
Guest:I think there's something weirdly aggressive about what he's doing.
Guest:And it's like, it's aggressive in its passivity.
Guest:If that makes any sense that he's like, he's still controlling them, right?
Guest:It's manipulation, but he, and he gets something, he gets off on this.
Guest:This is, he saves it for later and gets off on it alone.
Guest:And yeah,
Guest:Like there's something about that, that also let's rewind to what you said earlier.
Guest:This is this dude's first movie, Steven Soderbergh.
Guest:That's crazy because, and I don't mean it's crazy because of the skill of the way the movie is made.
Guest:It's made very well and it was made on the cheap and he obviously became super famous and the movie made like was one of the most,
Guest:profitable independent films of all time because of this.
Guest:It won at Cannes.
Guest:It won at Sundance.
Guest:The story is kind of a thing of legend in Hollywood.
Guest:And yet I'm watching this.
Guest:I'm like, this feels like a movie that a director would make once
Guest:way later in their career not because of the skill of it but because of what the movie feels like it's saying about making movies about the role of a director how a director is both your as for the actors and the audience the director is both god and devil like the director like think of alfred hitchcock like
Guest:He wanted to fuck with you.
Guest:He wanted to play you like a fiddle and he could, right?
Guest:And like, that's what this guy is doing.
Guest:Like, he's like, nope, I'm giving this all to you.
Guest:This is your power, but he controls it.
Guest:And it's mediated through this thing that is visual, right?
Guest:It's a video.
Guest:And I was like, man, how did this guy who's 26 years old
Guest:Like have the, have the confidence.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To make this.
Marc:It's, it's really crazy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's also timeless.
Marc:Like this movie.
Marc:Other than that, it's a VHS camcorder.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:Obviously the technology has gotten better, but my God.
Marc:is this movie relevant for today and people today as we have TikTok and Instagram stories and porn readily at the available, you know, on your television, you know, in your hand.
Marc:Like, it is crazy how relevant it is that this movie is basically showing you the future of,
Marc:Like in, you know, in videotape format, like this is what we're all just going to be staring.
Marc:We're going to be standing up, staring at our phones and just watching just pleasure.
Marc:You know, oh, this one doesn't give me much pleasure.
Marc:I'm going to swipe and get something else.
Marc:Yeah, dopamine drip.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:And it is...
Marc:It was so beautifully acted.
Marc:I never saw Andy McDowell like this.
Guest:This saved her career because she was a laughingstock in Hollywood before this.
Guest:She was a model and her first big role was in a Tarzan movie called Greystoke, The Legend of Tarzan.
Guest:And she was Jane and her, her Southern accent was not able to be hidden.
Guest:And then, so then she got dubbed over by Glenn Close.
Guest:No kidding.
Guest:Oh, and everybody knew it.
Guest:And so it was like, oh, that lady who can't act.
Guest:So she was desperate for something.
Guest:And like, you know, what's really actually pretty cool about that is like her like Southern-ness is integral.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:to this character.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Like that, like demure Southern shame that she has of like, as soon as she finds out about what these tapes are and she's like, I think I'm going to go.
Guest:Like, I think we... It plays.
Marc:It plays into that character so well.
Marc:And like, there's a scene where James Spader and Andy are at a restaurant, like having lunch.
Marc:And the way that she's fondling this drink
Marc:is so mesmerizing.
Marc:Like she's doing it like absentmindedly, but it's like a sexual, like it's, it's, it's wonderful.
Marc:And like, I have to think that she did it, you know, intentionally and it's, it's just beautiful.
Marc:But man, the way she says, fuck you is so delicious.
Marc:Like,
Marc:Like that Southern, fuck you.
Marc:Like just really fucking good.
Marc:It really twists the knife there, honestly.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:But Peter, what is it?
Marc:Peter Gallagher.
Marc:Fucking amazing.
Guest:Yeah, and he almost didn't get that part.
Guest:It was Tim Daly originally.
Guest:Oh, no shit.
Guest:Yeah, he couldn't do it for some reason.
Guest:I didn't know why.
Marc:He was delightful.
Marc:Like, what a great villain.
Marc:Like, what a great, like, perfect prick of a person.
Marc:And, like, just played it perfectly.
Marc:Who's the sister?
Marc:I've never seen her.
Guest:Laura San Giacomo?
Guest:Well, you know, she went on to be on the... She was on the TV show for a long time.
Guest:Just Shoot Me, right?
Guest:Just Shoot Me.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But, like, she was great as the sister.
Marc:And, like, I just...
Marc:Man, the movie plays.
Marc:Like, did you watch it?
Marc:And did you see like, oh, wow, this is like contemporary?
Guest:Well, I didn't see it like you.
Guest:I didn't see it when I was a kid.
Guest:I just had that like, what is this movie?
Guest:I was intrigued by it.
Guest:But then it kind of like, you know, other things happen.
Guest:Basic instinct happened.
Guest:And, you know, you stop thinking about this thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I think I watched it maybe, you know, in my early 20s or something for the first time.
Guest:And by that time, I had already seen, like, a bunch of movies that after seeing this, I was like, oh, those movies got a good... They have to go pay him a royalty check.
Guest:Like, all the Neil LaBute movies in The Company of Men and Your Friends and Neighbors and that.
Guest:I'm like, oh, these are just sex lies and videotape ripoffs.
Guest:Oh, that's funny.
Guest:Like, it is a...
Guest:dominantly influential film.
Guest:Like when you, when you think about like these, you know, gray lines of morality and, and, and, and sexuality, it's like so much of the indie films of the nineties, like wound up being like this.
Guest:So like, I don't think, you know, watching it this time, I didn't have any newer reaction than that.
Guest:Other than like, I remember the first time I saw this as an adult was, I was like,
Guest:This movie is like way more influential than it even gets credit for.
Guest:And it gets plenty credit.
Guest:But I think a lot of that credit, if you look, if you read like, you know, Down and Dirty Pictures or those, you know, books or articles about, you know, the 90s independent film era and that...
Guest:this is, this movie is like the patient zero.
Guest:Like they always talk about, this is the start of that revolution, but they frame it in the terms of like business, right?
Guest:Like, Oh, the Weinsteins were smart to like, think you could take this movie for a very small amount of money and you could market it for like twice what it costs to make it.
Guest:And you're still only putting like $1.5 million in the kitty.
Guest:And then it makes like, you know, 40 million or whatever.
Guest:And that was like a replicable process.
Guest:pattern for indie film going forward and this you know sells for an astronomical amount at Sundance for the time like movies hadn't sold for a lot of money back then and so like you know I just think this doesn't get the credit it deserves as a as an influential piece not just a business thing it should it should be up there with Pulp Fiction absolutely that we've talked about that was what I was thinking while I was watching it I was like this this is a Pulp Fiction level influential film
Marc:Yeah, and it's kind of similar.
Marc:It's weird how similar they are.
Marc:They're both, like, you know, from, you know, film festivals and Miramax and stuff.
Guest:Yeah, early in a career, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, you know, but, man, this movie was, like, really spoke to me.
Marc:Like, really, like, James Spader was in, yeah, you're right.
Marc:When I think about it some more, like, he really, he's a very...
Marc:you know, he could be like the devil.
Marc:Like I can see that.
Marc:And like, he's not, he's not like the hero of the story.
Marc:Like I know he ends up with Andy McDowell, but like, like he's, he's almost just an agent of chaos, you know?
Guest:Like, well, I wouldn't be surprised if that speech about one key, like all it's, all it's going to take is like somebody to put that on Tik TOK and you'll have like, you know, Gen Zers that are like, I'm going to start living with one key.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, this is the way to go.
Guest:Just make it so you only have one key.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, so then that's the thing.
Marc:Like the watching of these women doing things is ultimately captivating for him.
Marc:And Steven Soderbergh kind of knew that when he was making, obviously knew that, you know, that's the point of the movie, but it's captivating in a way that it's all encompassing, you know, for, for this guy, like he does nothing, but basically wash dishes and, you know, jerk off to, uh, to these videotapes at home.
Marc:And like, like that's, you can see that, you know, times a million with, uh, with the technology today.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, if you want to dive into some more about this movie, I highly recommend the episode of You Must Remember This, Karina Longworth's podcast, that is about both this movie and a movie that was released around the same time called Bad Influence that stars Rob Lowe and James Spader.
Guest:And she does a really nice job of kind of tying together how you cannot separate people
Guest:the success of this movie sex lies and videotape from what was going on in reality at the time with rob low and his video sex scandal and it's really fascinating how those things are like you know tied to each other and kind of fed each other and uh you know the outcomes were you know very different for both the people who made this movie and rob low uh so yeah i highly recommend going and checking that out
Guest:Awesome.
Guest:I'm going to do that this weekend.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Well, you know, I enjoyed doing this, Chris, but I would love to hear from other people if people out there have the same type of thing where a movie might have passed you by or you've heard about it, never watched it, and you decide to join that party because you're never late anymore.
Guest:Join it whenever you want.
Guest:And I want to hear, we want to hear what you...
Guest:And we want to hear what you thought of anything that you came to the party in recent years or days or even today.
Guest:And, you know, yeah, I think we'll do this again.
Guest:I've got other ones that I could absolutely draw from.
Marc:Oh, awesome.
Marc:Yeah, I am totally game.
Marc:I love finding just a movie that I just missed and can, you know, see for the first time.
Marc:And it blows me away.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, keep your feedback coming.
Guest:We love to read what you have to say and your opinions.
Guest:We maybe will do a big old mailbag show to wind down the year this month, but we'll make sure to get some other things in there and we'll keep checking in on WTF shows and anything having to do with the world of Marc Maron.
Guest:But until then, I am Brendan and that is Chris.
Peace!