BONUS The Marc and Tom Show #3 (from 2013)
Guest:We'll be right back.
Marc:Nice to see you, Tom.
Marc:Oh, it's great to see you.
Marc:I didn't mean to launch right into this, but I figured we'd want to lose any of the gold of us wandering around this.
Marc:You know, when I walked into this suite, I thought like, wow, they're really taking care of me.
Marc:Then in about 10 minutes, I was like, man, this is the kind of suite you rent with high school buddies and you party in and then leave.
Marc:Look at that.
Marc:Would you even sit on that sectional?
Marc:Look at that sectional.
Guest:For people, it's a...
Guest:It's a room that's got a wall dividing the bedroom area.
Marc:A deco dividing wall.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And in there is the bedroom, and in here there's a large sectional sofa where I could entertain any number of friends.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:It seems like the kind of things where a guy would tell the high school kids that
Guest:You stay seated, and you don't touch the dancer.
Guest:And it would be like eight guys lined up on this thing seeing a naked woman for the first time.
Guest:You've been in this suite before, haven't you?
Marc:You're telling a story.
Guest:I was always the guy who didn't get invited to things like that.
Guest:Don't invite Tom.
Guest:He'll ruin it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He'll bring it down somehow.
Guest:He'll say, hey, guys, I don't think this is right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, that's somebody's daughter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why don't you ask her why this is happening?
Guest:Why is she here?
Guest:What series of events?
Guest:I would actually be in situations like that.
Guest:I would start trying to become friends with the muscle.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I always feel like in those things, it's like the heavyset guy who's sitting by himself in the leather jacket waiting for her.
Guest:Yeah, I'd be like, how long have you been doing this?
Guest:Like with cab drivers, the compulsion I have.
Guest:If you're getting a car service taking you for a half hour.
Guest:You want to talk to the working people, the guys with the stories.
Guest:But I also realize I'm one...
Guest:I'm one sliver away from that guy.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I've always been the same way.
Marc:If there's some sort of gritty-looking guy that looks like he's had a life, I'm like, well, maybe I could borrow some of that.
Marc:Maybe some of that will rub off on me, some of that hard-earned wisdom.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But then eventually it happens to you.
Marc:Then you sort of tumble down your own life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there you are.
Guest:And the great thing is when guys like that, you think you're getting some wisdom from some like, like you'll talk to some guy and then he starts like going on some racist tirade.
Marc:Or else you get weird wisdom that like, you know, sort of like, you always drink my coffee black.
Marc:And then you're like, that's what I'm going to do.
Marc:And then for the rest of your life, based on this one thing, this guy who looked like he had some integrity told you, you spend your life doing that.
Marc:Why do you drink coffee black?
Marc:I met a guy when I was seven.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That scared me.
Marc:He smelled like cigarettes and bourbon, said he only drank it black, and that's how I live my life now.
Guest:Yeah, because I was trying to be what now?
Guest:What was that?
Guest:What impressed me about that guy?
Guest:Those are always the worst.
Guest:He had a scar on his eye.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Wouldn't it be amazing to be a...
Guest:As an adult, to go back and see the people who impacted you as a kid, what they really were.
Guest:You know, like when you go back to a height... I'm having a hard time realizing what my father is.
Guest:Well, I guess that's the ultimate one of them.
Guest:To go back and look at your dad in situations...
Guest:But it's like when you go back to like a high school or middle school and you walk through the halls and it's like, it's so claustrophobic because you're like, oh my God, this place is so small.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And it was huge.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When you were a kid or the rows of lockers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've gone back to my high school maybe once and I have no recollection of ever going to my locker.
Yeah.
Marc:I know I had a locker.
Marc:I have no recollection of doing schoolwork.
Marc:I have no recollection of studying.
Marc:I have recollection of this one area where the guys that I wanted to hang out with, hung out with, of me being there trying to hang out with people.
Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Of me sort of lumbering, like, what do you call it?
Marc:Would it be lumbering or just sort of, you know, skulking around?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, hey, what's up, man?
Marc:You know, that.
Guest:Lurking.
Marc:The only place I can remember in the halls of high school is where I desperately sought the approval of others.
Marc:Like, yeah.
Marc:This is one area where the cool kids hung out.
Guest:Yeah, or like the burnouts.
Guest:There were always the burnouts.
Guest:That was outside.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Outside, the burnouts had this area around by the trees where they actually let us smoke at my high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, yeah, the kids smoked in my high school as long as you were outside.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Guest:There'd be kids walking around with that cigarette.
Guest:In the ear.
Guest:Yeah, behind their ear.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or, you know, or the kids who would put the – you'd see them playing with the pack, tapping it all the time.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then they'd roll it up into their sleeve like they were – it's like it's the 50s or something.
Guest:Yeah, that was great.
Marc:That's one of those guys, though.
Marc:As we're talking about these people that change your life –
Marc:Like I was thinking about it today because I was down in the market.
Marc:Let's track the thoughts.
Marc:I saw a very heavy set fella walk through the market.
Marc:I sat there for about an hour judging people, but not harshly, just sort of like judging people.
Marc:But I was in sort of a tired state of mind.
Marc:So it was sort of like, these people work hard.
Marc:Look at them.
Marc:They're wearing it on their faces.
Marc:Like there is that feeling here in Philly, not unlike Boston.
Marc:There seems to be a type of working folk here that I only see on the East Coast.
Marc:I only see in Boston where they're weathered.
Marc:They don't seem to care much about dressing themselves properly, but they dress comfortably.
Marc:And they just look a little hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, this is... Philly, to me, is like Boston for weirdos because it's... Like, you know, Boston has all the education and all of that kind of running through the culture of this place.
Guest:And like...
Guest:Philly has the Eagles and throwing batteries at Santa Claus because the team's losing.
Marc:I feel that.
Marc:There's a rough beauty to this place, and there's a lot of those sort of different version of crew cuts on guys that look roughly the same.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They don't ever look like people.
Marc:I'd be like, hey, how you doing?
Marc:I'm not going to hang out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You sort of try not to make eye contact and just keep moving.
Guest:Do you instantly assume the – like you give them the alpha dog thing in situations?
Guest:Do you by default?
Guest:Because I do.
Guest:I instantly –
Guest:We're not alpha dudes, dude.
Guest:No, but it's like... I mean, I've been talking about this on stage compulsively.
Guest:But when am I ever... It's like, because it's... When does it stop?
Guest:When does it stop?
Marc:Why can't you just meet eyes and say, hi, how are you?
Marc:And strongly with a firm, intense stare and move on without feeling like, oh God, what did I do?
Marc:Why am I crying inside?
Guest:Last night...
Guest:I went to go see The Who at Madison Square Garden.
Marc:You went to that show?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who's Left featuring Pete Townsend.
Marc:And Daltrey, that's it, right?
Marc:Is Mickey, what's his name on the drums?
Guest:It's Zach Starkey, Ringo Starr's son.
Guest:How'd he do?
Guest:He's been playing with them.
Guest:He was great.
Guest:Good.
Guest:And who played bass?
Guest:This guy, Pino Palandino, who also has been playing with them for...
Guest:John Enwistle's been dead for a while, so it was really great.
Guest:It's a funny thing.
Guest:They played Madison Square Garden last night on Wednesday night.
Guest:They're playing in Newark tonight at the place, and that's where I bought tickets to go with my wife to that show.
Guest:And then my friend Paul asked me, he's like, hey, you want to go to...
Guest:Madison Square Garden, I have an extra ticket.
Guest:I'm like, well, I'm going tomorrow night.
Guest:So that's a pass.
Guest:I'm not going to that two nights in a row.
Guest:And he goes, well, it's fifth row.
Guest:I'm like, okay, yeah, let's do this.
Guest:You had to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's like fifth row.
Guest:They were 20 feet away from me.
Guest:Like the idea of like looking over there, it's like, oh, there's the dude who wrote all of these things, who wrote this thing he's playing.
Guest:I could throw something and hit him with it.
Guest:You know, like –
Guest:but but i'm watching it and it's really you know it's really good it's like look they're older guys but pete townsend he's still playing the stuff and he's really you know he was soloing spinning around yeah he was doing the windmill yeah and then like four songs in because there's like an empty seat next to me right and uh
Guest:I'm like, this is paradise.
Guest:I have all this room.
Guest:Four songs in.
Marc:It's like getting on the plane.
Marc:There's no one sitting in the middle.
Guest:You're like, oh, are we lucky or what?
Guest:That never happens anymore, right?
Guest:Those days are... That's like talking about...
Guest:The way old people would talk to you about things or me about things would just be like, I don't relate to that.
Guest:We can talk about, yeah, you would go on a plane sometimes and it would be half full.
Marc:Yeah, there's an empty seat there and you can actually have room to put your things there.
Marc:Yes, you'd go.
Marc:And that weird moment with the guy who's sitting across from you like, ah, we lucked out, huh?
Guest:I don't got to be next to you at all.
Guest:Yeah, that moment with the middle seat where you're both just like...
Guest:waiting for that door to close like close the door yes close the door yes please close it we're minutes and then all of a sudden you see oh great here comes a really fat dude coming down the aisle and you know it's gonna stop or the fragile old lady that looks like she's gonna need some assistance at some point oh and they're just looking at the numbers yeah on the thing
Guest:No.
Guest:Not 23.
Guest:Why can't I have that person?
Guest:Why not the person behind you?
Guest:He looks clean and healthy.
Guest:Oh, it's a pretty girl.
Guest:Never.
Guest:Yeah, never.
Guest:I don't think I've ever sat next to a pretty girl on a flight.
Guest:Ever.
Guest:Ever.
Guest:To the point where it's sort of like, this is a joke, right?
Guest:Someone's playing a joke on me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's always some business douche or a really... Yesterday, some guy was... I had the seat in between.
Marc:This guy leaned in, and I was on Twitter, of course, on the plane.
Marc:He's like... And he leans in like, I never did the Twitter.
Marc:Should I?
Marc:And I'm like, I can't.
Marc:I don't even want to talk at all.
Yeah.
Marc:Like, I tried to say that.
Marc:I'm like, well, it's really up to you.
Marc:I don't know what you get out of it.
Marc:He's like, well, I do Facebook and I post pictures.
Marc:And I'm like, I tried to exude everything I could to say, like, I'm not going to give you a pep talk about social networking.
Marc:And I don't want to know what you do.
Marc:I don't want to know anything about you.
Marc:And I'm not even being rude.
Marc:I just want to do this, what I'm doing now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's those things.
Marc:It's just like, do I?
Marc:It's not my responsibility.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I don't want to have to carry your water right now.
Marc:I literally said, yeah, I mean, you know, maybe you should.
Guest:Because it's like, sure, let's say yes.
Guest:Try it.
Guest:Sign up.
Guest:We good then?
Guest:We done.
Guest:21 followers.
Guest:So there's an empty seat at the who?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So then these two guys start coming in because there was two empty seats, actually.
Guest:And then it's John McEnroe.
Guest:you know the tennis player sure i know him and then he's like he moves into the seat he's in the so he's standing next to me now and he's doing this because everybody's standing nobody's sitting so it doesn't sitting is not an option no i hate i'm i don't know if it's an age thing where i'm like can we start the sitting can i what if i do it can we all enjoy the show from a seated position yeah it's just that thing where it's like
Guest:We do have seats.
Guest:Can we at least alternate songs maybe?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm one.
Guest:Can we sit for I'm one?
Guest:That's a quiet one.
Guest:That's a slow one.
Guest:And then we'll all get back up for 515.
Guest:How about that?
Guest:We'll do some trade-offs here.
Marc:Because then you end up being the only guy sitting.
Marc:You're like, I don't care.
Marc:I can hear it.
Marc:I can hear it right here.
Marc:Fine.
Yeah.
Guest:yeah well there's also that point where it's like what are they gonna start to look different up there at some point it's like i've i've processed what they look like that's part of the thing about we're in fifth row we can sit down yeah we don't have to struggle to see anything yeah yeah but everybody's standing
Guest:And then John McEnroe just spreads out with his arms.
Guest:And now I start standing sideways.
Guest:Like, I have to, like, tilt this way.
Guest:You buckled under the pressure.
Guest:Because he was being such a dick about it.
Guest:And he must just know that that's...
Guest:How he is in situations.
Guest:And I will say this.
Guest:I'm 98% sure that was John McEnroe.
Guest:There's still a 2% chance that that guy wasn't him, but it looked like him.
Guest:Let's weave at him.
Guest:It was New York.
Guest:It was like a rock show.
Guest:He's one of those guys who thinks he's like a rocker.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:And a notorious asshole.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, he's just abrasive.
Marc:I think as he's gotten older, he's a little better, but it's still like he carries that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Especially for an athlete, that's the hard thing.
Guest:It's like you and me and people working in a medium that does not require physical talent –
Guest:You can get better as you get into your 40s and even 50s.
Marc:I felt like I should jump up and start doing squats as we talk.
Marc:There was something that, in my mind, I'm like, what are you talking about, Tom?
Guest:Look, I'm moving.
Guest:I still got it.
Guest:But it's like, if you're an athlete, it's like people talk about you being like, because I watch basketball a lot, and they'll be like,
Guest:I'll be watching and be like, look at that old guy out there.
Guest:And I realize, oh, that guy's eight years younger than me.
Guest:Like, who does this guy think he is?
Guest:This old man hobbling his way out on the floor, eight years younger than me.
Guest:Why did they even let him play?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, he's an old man.
Guest:Could you imagine being...
Guest:like unable to do the thing that was your identity, you know, it's over for you at like 35 maybe.
Marc:And now it was like... Right.
Marc:And then he made a fortune.
Marc:Then he was with Tato O'Neill for a while.
Marc:And then he had that horrible talk show for a while.
Marc:I can't remember where I talked to him, but I've talked to him.
Marc:But your feeling was, what I think our original issue here was you just, without even...
Marc:questioning yourself, you just buckled to his arm expansion.
Marc:And then you were conscious of it the entire time.
Marc:You were like, I can't believe... There was a resentment in you that you did not have the gumption to say, excuse me, the space in front of my chair is allotted to me.
Marc:And now I'm uncomfortable.
Guest:And you are intruding upon my little spot here.
Marc:Look, me and Pete Townsend are the same.
Marc:We're not one of you.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And you're ruining, you're triangulating.
Marc:Yeah, you don't get it.
Guest:Like, you don't get it.
Guest:I belong.
Guest:I'm him.
Guest:I'm Jimmy now from Quadrophania.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And this being kicked on by you.
Marc:Yeah, you don't, I still have the records.
Marc:You don't, you're just here because someone told you you should be here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're here for the hits.
Guest:You're here for the hits.
Guest:Yeah, it was, he,
Guest:Yeah, he was into it, but it was kind of sad.
Guest:He was weird the way he was into it.
Guest:He was doing like...
Guest:air guitar a little bit like but like still he didn't have much room to move either to be fair so all right so we're on a level playing but the court is is even but he still still had to take my still had to just spread out a little air guitar he did a little air guitar and that to you did that at least humanized him because it looked stupid right yeah exactly it's just like you never break into air guitar to
Guest:but generally not in public like that.
Guest:A little drum?
Marc:Do you do the air drum?
Marc:I mean, what are you... Which instrument do you play air-wise?
Guest:Well, if I'm by myself, it's generally drums.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Guest:Because I drive a fair amount, and that's a good... Yeah, you can move a little bit.
Marc:The alpha thing is... I'm a little obsessed with it right now, because...
Marc:My thought is that I'm a 49-year-old man.
Marc:I should be comfortable in that.
Marc:Whatever man I am, I should be okay that this is the man I am, and I can own that.
Marc:I know I'm not an alpha male because when I lock eyes with a real alpha male, they know.
Marc:They're like, say hi to the little girl in there.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:And I sort of avert my eyes and walk away.
Marc:I'm like, he saw you.
Marc:I'll take you away from this.
Marc:But you at least can speak a sports language, which usually can get you through an encounter with one or more alpha males.
Guest:Yeah, that can usually...
Guest:It covers up the sins in a way.
Guest:I can navigate through a conversation.
Guest:Until what comes up?
Guest:Well, until I can get away from the person generally.
Guest:All right, I'm out.
Guest:I'm out.
Guest:Yeah, we're done here.
Guest:You're done fixing my car or whatever.
Marc:But see, that's it.
Marc:I bet you those are exactly the types of guys we're talking about, even at the beginning with the guy who's there to watch the stripper or the guy fixing your car or the guy driving the cab.
Marc:Those are always the guys you want to say, like, hey, how you doing?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, when you just finished shooting your show, did you – anytime I'm in those situations, I always end up gravitating toward like crew – The grip people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, the lighting guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I do too.
Marc:I definitely have – my grandfather owned a hardware store.
Marc:And there was always these men hanging around in a circle.
Marc:They were old guys, but there was a guy named Pete who talked like this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:And you just assume he had this wrinkled face that was full of a desperation to continue living.
Marc:And he looked like a hobo.
Marc:And how would you not, you know, sort of like, I'm just going to hang around that guy.
Marc:He could have been a pedophile or a criminal.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But in that moment, I'm like, this guy has a life and he's got a person.
Marc:I think it's a definition of character that's appealing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, because I mean, that's what I was getting at with the high school thing was that there was this guy, Jay Fegan, talking about smoking the cigarettes.
Marc:This dude, Jay Fegan.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:I think he was a grade older than me, but he used to wear, and I went through a lot of this, dude, and I'm not sure I'm done with it.
Marc:I don't know why I have this facial hair configuration.
Marc:I've committed to it, though, longer than most.
Marc:But Jay Fegan was this guy.
Marc:He was a burnout, or what were they?
Marc:People call them the heshers, the burnouts, the stoners.
Marc:Yeah, he was one of those guys, but he always wore like a...
Marc:Like a colored T-shirt with a pocket and a flannel shirt over it, open.
Marc:I had a flannel shirt and then like a Hanes T, pocket T. Yeah, like something that somebody would wear in like a garage or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Some sort of...
Marc:Like a functional.
Marc:It was a standard sort of burnout look.
Marc:You know, the flannel.
Marc:It was almost pre-grunge, but it was years before that.
Marc:But it was just a flannel shirt.
Marc:And he always had his Marlboros in that pocket.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm going to be that guy.
Marc:That's what I'm going to do.
Marc:That's how I'm going to dress now.
Marc:And I was just so taken.
Marc:He had long hair, and he just had a thing to him.
Marc:It seemed to be organic and have some integrity to it.
Marc:So, and I was just thinking about this today because I was down at the market looking at people and I saw a guy, a heavyset guy in a maroon t-shirt that I'm sure was probably an American apparel t-shirt, but I looked for the pocket and then I remembered because maroon is my favorite color.
Marc:I'm like, the thrill I got buying a Hanes, a package of like three Hanes pocket tees in different colors.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Like when I knew that you could just buy them and they were cheap and there was no American apparel, that was the T-shirt you bought.
Marc:You bought the fucking Hanes T-shirt with a pocket.
Marc:And buying my first pocket tees that were colored that I could wear with a flannel shirt and have Jay's authenticity, that was a big day.
Marc:And then I started smoking and I put him in that pocket.
Marc:And years later, I saw him.
Marc:He was always, that crew, they were burnouts, but they were sort of ahead of the curve.
Marc:Because I graduated high school in 1981, so this might have been the late 70s.
Marc:And he was listening to, like, you know, the contortions to, you know, James White.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:And Iggy Pop and stuff.
Marc:And it was way beyond.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:Yeah, that's.
Marc:Yeah, right when that was happening, I would imagine that would be like 77, right?
Marc:78?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, like the late 70s.
Marc:Yeah, and they were on that already, and he was a great artist.
Marc:And years later, I ran into him, and he had a crew cut, and he was way out of his mind on drugs, and he lived in like a guest house behind his parents' house that looked like a very small version of what I assume Andy Warhol's factory looked like, as if it were compressed into one room.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:And he was a little out of it, but he still wore the pocket tees.
Marc:And to this day, I'm drawn to those, to the pocket tees, because that was one of those things where he didn't tell me I should wear them, but I designed my life around my interpretation of that guy's personality.
Guest:But that guy seems like he was different than the usual...
Guest:than the usual burnout where they're listening to Boston and kind of... It was a little... Boston probably came out when I was in high school.
Marc:No, most of the burnouts... Like, I graduated high school in 81, and it was still primarily... It was Zeppelin-oriented more than anything else in my recollection.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Is that possible?
Guest:Oh, no, that's exactly... I mean, that's... It's such a strange thing with that because it's like...
Guest:I have this thing with that where I feel like Led Zeppelin is this band that I love.
Guest:It's got to be one of my top, it might be just like top two favorite bands, them and I guess the Beatles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's, but it's like people like that, it's like you guys are listening to it wrong somehow.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It's like, no, you're dumb.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you don't get what is, what I like about it.
Guest:Like how can that, like how can that be that there's a thing where it's like,
Guest:It speaks to everybody.
Guest:And look, I know that that is a wrong-headed approach to be like, you're listening to it wrong.
Guest:And I have clearly – I've grown beyond that.
Guest:I understand it's like – if something speaks to everybody, it's not about wrong or right or smart or dumb.
Guest:But at the time, that was something that I know I felt where it's like –
Guest:We can't like the same thing you and me.
Guest:Because you're clearly listening.
Guest:It's clearly making sense to you incorrectly because I get it.
Guest:We can't both get it.
Guest:No, exactly.
Marc:But did you ever try to figure out, well, what are they getting out of it?
Marc:You mean it's not enough just to headbang?
Guest:I think they're getting out of it the fact that they sing about hobbits and stuff.
Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:I barely listen to the words.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That is also by far the worst thing about Led Zeppelin is their singer.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:I mean, like my friend Jim Earl, he's like, he hates him because he calls him prog rock.
Marc:And I never thought of them as prog rock.
Marc:Not Zeppelin.
Marc:Why would Zeppelin be prog rock?
Guest:I would not.
Guest:categorize them as prog rock at all.
Guest:Prog rock has no blues bass, for example.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:There's a lot of noodling.
Guest:It's all classical bass.
Guest:It comes out of European classical history.
Guest:There's no American blues in prog rock.
Marc:I never listened to Yes, aside from the song Roundabout, and I just waited until the part where they're doing a blues riff.
Marc:That was a bit... In and around the lake...
Marc:That was the best part of the yes for me, was that one part of that one song.
Guest:Was there a point where you were just like, yeah, I can't do music?
Guest:Like where you felt you hit that wall where it was like, I'm not going to be in a band.
Marc:I'm not going to be... I was terrified to play in public and sing in public.
Marc:So, you know, the band thing, like I was in a couple of...
Marc:Sort of groupings of guys where we thought we had a band.
Marc:I didn't tell you about that?
Marc:Any of that stuff?
Guest:I've heard you talk about... I know you over on the show because you did a live thing where... What did you do?
Guest:A Grateful Dead song.
Marc:Yeah, and I thought I did a good job with it.
Marc:I no longer have a fear to sing in public or play in public, which I can thank Greg Barrett for.
Marc:But back then, I was with a bunch of guys.
Marc:We knew maybe four songs badly.
Marc:We changed our name several times.
Marc:My friend Dave Bishop was a good guitar player, a great guitar player, but we never pulled it together to play a gig.
Marc:And if we played a gig, we'd agree to play a party, but we only knew these four songs.
Marc:We did like...
Marc:We did a really shitty version of Sweet Emotion and a really bad version of Tush by ZZ Top.
Marc:And then I think we did Taking Care of Business halfway through.
Marc:So you were not taking care of business?
Marc:No, not at all.
Marc:With the song Taking Care of Business?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:And I would sweat profusely.
Marc:And I'm not even sure why we even... And I think we did a Bad Company tune.
Marc:Which one?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Rock Steady, I think.
Marc:And that was really all we did.
Marc:But I did learn something.
Marc:The story was like we'd agreed to play at this party, this high school party.
Marc:We agreed to play our four songs.
Marc:And this guy, Lee Danziger, he was our bass player, kind of.
Marc:And he wore a floppy hat.
Marc:And he always seemed to be having a good time.
Marc:And I knew him.
Marc:He was a Jewish kid.
Marc:And we were going to go do this gig, and he couldn't play.
Marc:But my friend Dave, or maybe, I remember, who knew this guy named Monty?
Marc:They were like, I know Monty.
Marc:He plays bass.
Marc:So we're like, we've never played with him before.
Marc:And then we rehearsed with him for an hour, our four songs.
Marc:And he was a little out there and kind of intense.
Marc:He was one of those high school kids that looked like he never slept.
Marc:Like he had the bags under his eyes.
Guest:Yeah, like early on.
Marc:Yeah, and he was thin, and he smoked a lot.
Marc:He wore a down coat, and it was hot out.
Guest:It's like ageless in a way.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:They're so thin that they could be 20 or they could be 50.
Marc:So he's like, okay, he's going to do it.
Marc:So we get to this party.
Marc:It's in a basement.
Marc:Someone's parents were out of town.
Marc:It was one of those horrible kind of like, let's destroy the house.
Marc:And I just wanted to make out with this girl named Leslie.
Marc:And I...
Marc:And I remember I decided to do this.
Marc:My parents were going to see Jose Feliciano as a family.
Marc:And I was like, I got to go to this party because I'm playing and Leslie's going to be there.
Marc:And it was like the first time that I actually told my parents, like, I'm not going to your event.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:It was like, you go see Jose Feliciano.
Marc:I have no interest in seeing him.
Marc:I'm just thinking about you going to that.
Marc:Yeah, I knew he was blind and I knew he did a version of Light My Fire, but I didn't know anything else.
Marc:And then you're just sitting there with your parents.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:Didn't you ever go to those things with your parents?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:My parents took me to see Peter Frampton.
Marc:They took me to see Sonny and Cher.
Marc:They took me, I think they took me to George Carlin.
Marc:But nonetheless, so I go play this party.
Marc:And we do our songs, and I think it goes okay, and Monty's working out.
Marc:As good as our horrible... The singer Damon was just... It was a disaster.
Marc:There was no vision to it.
Marc:There was no style to it.
Marc:So we do our three songs, then we're going to take a break, because that's a set, right?
Marc:Three?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You've got to have the encore in your back pocket.
Guest:Half of taking care of business.
Marc:But we, you know, Monty had brought some equipment that we didn't understand, and...
Marc:So we take our break, and then all of a sudden, we're in the party.
Marc:I think I'm making out with Leslie, finally.
Marc:And all of a sudden, this noise, this sound that no one had ever heard before, it literally stopped the party.
Marc:It was like the speakers were like... And Monty...
Marc:who I found out later who was on acid.
Marc:It was now his time to do what Monty did, which was... But he had some sort of tape loop machine.
Marc:All the equipment he brought was for this moment.
Marc:And he was just up there on stage with his bass, just like... And nobody knows what to do with it.
Marc:And everybody is sort of shell-shocked by it.
Marc:And it goes on for like four or five minutes of just Monty up there...
Marc:bringing the house down in a way that not in a good way no one's like yeah everyone's like what what's happening and and then he stops and and everyone's sort of like shocked and and it's awkward they feel like they've all been abused somehow i think and it was at that moment where i realized there's a lot of things i don't understand
Marc:There's a whole world of expression and music out there that I don't understand.
Guest:There's so much in that.
Guest:The one thing that interests me a lot is your calling.
Guest:Music you have such a connection to as a person.
Guest:You've clearly had it your whole life.
Guest:You...
Guest:You make music to whatever degree.
Guest:You have a relationship with it that way.
Guest:But it's like comedy was this thing that you did not hit a wall with in terms of, all right, I'm not going beyond this point.
Guest:I'm going to keep...
Guest:pursuing this thing.
Marc:I think it was a default thing, though.
Marc:I mean, I think I would have loved to have done music, and now that I'm still, you know, I'm better, I still evolve with music.
Marc:And, like, I've grown to, like, I've always been pretty straight up, like, Fender Telecaster, you know, because Keith Richards had one, and I wanted one, and
Marc:but I never really learned how... And it's that alpha male thing, too, on another level.
Marc:It's just that I always thought that I was never good enough.
Marc:And as you get older, you realize it has nothing to do with being good at anything other than being able to play what you want to play the way you want to play it.
Marc:There's no technique or wizardry other than able to be able to express yourself efficiently with your instrument.
Marc:And if that's three chords or if it's two chords or if it's just a sound, that's enough for rock and roll, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but if somebody was saying that same stuff about comedy, I think we would both want to murder them.
Guest:If they were just like, hey, it's enough that I get up there and I just kind of take this from someone and take that from someone.
Marc:Well, no, I mean, not taking it, but getting to a point where I can play an okay blues guitar, and I think that if I sing and I play, that it's unique to me.
Marc:Could I do it professionally?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, I would have to practice, I think, learning the craft and repeating it enough to be proficient to present somebody with it or present an audience with it is something different.
Marc:But I think I went into stand-up the same way, but I knew that the only thing I really had to overcome with stand-up
Marc:It's just staying on stage long enough to figure out how to do it.
Marc:There was no equipment necessary.
Marc:I didn't have to learn any chords.
Marc:There was no leads that had to be... I didn't have to sync up with other guys.
Marc:And I think it was because I love comedy so much, but I just love the idea of expressing myself.
Marc:It just seemed more pure to me.
Marc:But ultimately, I find that singing or performing is much more vulnerable, much more frightening to me.
Marc:For me to sing on stage, it's like when I see guys who have their own karaoke song, it just irks me.
Marc:I saw Scott Arkerman sing Radiohead at karaoke years ago, and I'm like,
Marc:Why are these people hiding this?
Marc:You know, like for me to sing, I feel like I have my penis out and it's not doing anything and people are like, that's it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's funny because it's like, but, you know, you have a relationship with holding a microphone.
Guest:in one context, and you're comfortable with it.
Guest:It is actually your calling to do that, to do one thing into a microphone.
Guest:So it's not the act of holding a microphone that does it.
Guest:It's the act of...
Guest:Because I think doing your own material into a microphone and that you have a one-to-one relationship with what you're thinking and what's coming out of your mouth, that's infinitely more scary than just interpreting a song.
Guest:Doing a Jimmy Reed cover?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Because it's just like, hey, I'm singing something else somebody else wrote, somebody else thought of, I'm just singing it.
Marc:Music's so fucking magic, though, because if somebody takes that song, and in music people don't go, you fucking thief!
Marc:They're like, wow, that's a great version of that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, they, and make it their own.
Marc:It's pretty fascinating to me.
Marc:And I get very moved by music and music is something that, you know, there are certain songs like you can never really hear enough.
Marc:And if you have heard it enough, if you've wanted to play it that much, then you just don't listen to it for a while.
Marc:And then you go back to it.
Marc:You know, the comedy is not like that.
Marc:I mean, you listen to a comedy album twice and then if you go back to it, you're like, sort of like, remember this guy?
Marc:People used to, I guess that was funny then, you know,
Guest:I can't believe that I listen to those Steve Martin albums like I listen to them.
Guest:Because it's like, if I get a comedy CD now, or whatever, it could be my absolute favorite person, and I listen to it once, and I'm just like, who can I give this to?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Like...
Guest:All right, I heard it.
Guest:It was fantastic.
Guest:Like, oh, what a great album.
Guest:All right, who wants this?
Guest:You only do that with comedy records.
Guest:I don't need this thing in my house.
Guest:It's never like, oh, I'm having such a bad day.
Guest:Maybe the postman wants it.
Guest:Let me take that comedy CD back out again.
Guest:I'm just going to put it in a bin out in front of my house.
Guest:Just hope.
Guest:Yeah, those things where it's like – but like I'll go – if I'm in a certain mood, it's like, oh, I'll put that album on and that will help me through this mood.
Guest:Like comedy albums, I've never – like they're – it's amazing how –
Guest:the short life that they have.
Guest:It's kind of shocking.
Marc:Well, let's get back to this thing about... You talk about the guys that we met when we were kids that left an impression and going back... Because I went back and I saw... A lot of them are music.
Marc:I saw my guitar teacher, Vaughn McMillan, once.
Marc:He came to a comedy show.
Marc:This was a guy I idolized.
Marc:He was in a fucking band.
Marc:He played a Black Les Paul, I believe.
Marc:And then I saw him at a comedy show.
Marc:He's like, yeah, I'm just doing electrical work now.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:How's the band?
Marc:No more.
Marc:Oh, bully.
Guest:That's always... It's heartbreaking, but what else are you going to do?
Guest:That is the thing with all of this, and I think about it a lot, where it's like, would I have been better off just having a relationship with entertainment and comedy that is...
Guest:It's like, yeah, I enjoy this stuff, and that's going to be the end of my relationship with it.
Guest:And yes, maybe I have an aptitude for it, but you know what?
Guest:I'm too busy making money.
Guest:I'm too busy getting a check every week at this job.
Guest:I'm too busy feeding the family I would have had had I not banked on this horrendous dream.
Guest:Yes, this is my life.
Guest:Like, my life is this job I have, and that's what keeps the roof over my head and food on the table.
Guest:It's like, so there's no room for that other stuff.
Guest:But I decided... But I enjoy it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I decided in whatever things, like, no, I have to go for it, whatever it is.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Everything else is... I'm tabling everything else.
Marc:But was there really a decision?
Marc:I mean, for me, it was just... It was never really a decision.
Marc:It's just like, I don't know how it happened.
Marc:I look back on it.
Marc:I'm doing this.
Marc:I am doing...
Marc:I'm doing this, but I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging your limitations at some point and accepting who you are.
Marc:I don't know that.
Guest:I know what you're saying.
Guest:Like, should I have indulged that?
Guest:I indulged the voice, like the thing in me, like, I got to do this.
Guest:Go for it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, maybe I should have just been like, no.
Marc:No, but I don't know.
Marc:But, you know, go for what?
Marc:You know, I was just down at the market.
Marc:Looking at people, not judging them in a harsh way, but they all seem like, you know, people like some people really are like, you know, they really just go to work to get money to live their life.
Marc:I never thought like that ever in any way, shape or form.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, look, ultimately, I clearly didn't either because I did.
Guest:make whatever choice I have to make.
Marc:Well, who were some of those people that when you were younger, like, have you gone back?
Marc:I mean, you must've had that feeling a little bit, even seeing the who that like, there's a vulnerability that starts to happen as people get older.
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:Where it's not, it's not like, you're not, you're not, you're not embarrassed, but it's, it's a, it's a humility that wasn't present when you initially fell in love with them, their attitude and their music, because it was, they were doing the opposite of that.
Guest:Well, there's a thing, throughout the whole show, there's a screen behind them, there's a few video screens behind them, and...
Guest:They're doing this thing that I don't know if I could ever do where it's like showing me at my best.
Guest:If I'm all of a sudden in my 60s and I'm doing something in front of people, I'm not going to run video of me like at my peak behind me.
Guest:When I'm 24.
Guest:All they're going to look at is just like, oh, wow.
Guest:You do not look very good.
Guest:Oh, you look great on that screen.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Look how cool you were.
Guest:Look what time has done to our heroes.
Guest:Because they're showing the Who smoke coming out of amps because he's jamming his guitar right down the center of it.
Guest:Just smashing stuff and Keith Moon going crazy.
Guest:And then you look and it's just like...
Guest:This old guy kind of wearing a red checkered shirt, kind of hunched over.
Guest:He's still playing the stuff, but he's got a music stand in front of him where he's flipping the thing to the next page.
Guest:Wearing reading glasses.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like there was no...
Guest:There was no music stand when you were on stage.
Marc:Yeah, well, that's the biggest crime is to continue living.
Marc:But, I mean, what else are they going to do?
Marc:I mean, that's more an applicable question is that, you know, obviously they made the choice and they followed the calling and they became mythic.
Marc:But still, you would think they'd want to sit down.
Marc:I mean, I can't imagine that they need money.
Marc:So their dream has taken them to where they are, and everybody still seems to go.
Marc:But I was backstage with Alice Cooper, who I've never really been a fan of.
Marc:I don't know from that, really.
Guest:I have friends who absolutely love Alice Cooper, but it always seemed like a second-tier guy.
Marc:Yeah, but he's backstage, and he hasn't put on all his makeup yet.
Guest:Is that Conan?
Marc:Yeah, and we're just having to chit-chat.
Marc:And then, like, I get on stage, and I'm watching him in his full thing.
Marc:And it's very—you know, it's like, this is sad, but it's what he does that—
Marc:And he still does it.
Marc:He's still the guy who did it first.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he's doing what he did now.
Marc:And it's not a parody, but it's certainly bittersweet.
Guest:It's almost like at that point, they need us more than we need them.
Guest:It's like when a band is young and they're killing it and they're making history, it's like...
Guest:As an audience, it's like, I need you to be doing this right now.
Guest:But then these guys getting back together, it's kind of like, yeah, we're really getting something out of this now, too, also.
Guest:And there's a couple sad moments in the show where they show John Entwistle playing...
Guest:They kind of insert them into the show.
Marc:The Beach Boys did that.
Marc:My girlfriend wanted to see the Beach Boys, and I went to see them, and they did a song with Carl.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Dennis.
Marc:They had them singing, and they played the song with the video.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, that's what they did with this, where there's a bass solo during 515, John Ann Whistle playing, and then Keith Moon does his singing on Bellboy that they insert into it, and...
Guest:Like, Roger Daltrey turns, and he's watching the screen, and you could see... Like, I know there has to be a performative element of everybody here expects me to be sad that these guys are gone.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, I need to play the role correctly.
Guest:But I really do think, like, when he turned around, he did look...
Guest:It did not look like he was acting in terms of the way he looked like.
Guest:It's like, man, people are dead.
Marc:Yeah, I wonder if it's that moment or it's the moment of like, look where I am.
Marc:Fortunately, as we get older, things tend to fade, so their resonance sort of has to be stoked a little bit in order for the emotions to come.
Marc:There are things that have happened in my life where I'm like, oh, yeah, and they were big things.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:So you really have to kind of prod.
Marc:But I imagine that just that moment of realizing, like, you know, what is he?
Marc:He's got to be in his 60s.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That, you know, it's coming.
Marc:I mean, it was tragic because, you know, this guy ran himself into the ground.
Marc:But, you know, I imagine on some level he's like, oh, he got off easy.
Marc:You know?
Guest:Yeah, there is that.
Guest:He's lucky not to be here.
Guest:Look at us.
Guest:If I could just think of something else I could be doing.
Guest:Oh, it is.
Guest:It is like the, yeah, I mean.
Guest:I could not have seen that show if they were not doing... If they were just, The Who, play their hits.
Guest:It would have just been like, I'm not going to see that.
Guest:But since they were at least doing a thing, they were doing Quadrophenia.
Guest:Oh, they were?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's the only way I could.
Guest:Because I just... I have a really hard time with that thing where it's like... It's like the bad side of hero worship.
Guest:It's like, I'm filling in the gaps.
Guest:This is kind of... It's over.
Guest:This is...
Guest:Yeah, what are we trying to grasp?
Guest:If you ever email with somebody, and then somebody who's super talented, and all of a sudden this email comes through, and there's five spelling mistakes in it, and you're just like, wow, this guy.
Guest:Why not be that smart?
Marc:Well, I think that's sort of the theme of it all, is that you go see The Who.
Marc:You have these ideas about people that sort of get shattered as you get older, and they can't hold that place forever.
Marc:I mean, now I've gotten this...
Marc:back into records, and I really find myself listening to a lot of stuff that I listened to in high school, and I don't want to just think it's nostalgia.
Marc:You do hear it for the first time again if the equipment's good enough, and it is a new experience.
Marc:And I'm also listening to people that I never listened to that I always thought I should and enjoying it, like Captain Beefheart.
Marc:I never understood that.
Marc:I just couldn't handle it.
Guest:But I ultimately always take that as a...
Guest:as some sort of judgment on myself that it's like... That you're not getting it.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Why can't I bridge... Why can't I have the connection with this thing?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then if you really think about it, it's like, why am I so hard on myself?
Marc:I mean, the people that have the connection, that's an esoteric group of people.
Marc:They're equally as annoying and precious about their connection to it.
Marc:And you're really dealing with... The person that's bullying you in your head is really just, you know, some dude who...
Marc:who's got no friends, who sits there and like, you don't get beef heart?
Marc:I mean, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who is that guy?
Marc:He's playing Dungeons & Dragons, that guy.
Marc:But I let that guy, they stand so tall in my mind.
Guest:Isn't that weird?
Guest:Or just like...
Guest:It's that way with jazz for me, too, where it's like, oh, I don't feel it.
Guest:I don't have the connection with it.
Guest:I can appreciate it.
Marc:I got it with some, but just the main guys.
Marc:I can definitely get into the main guys, but that's a whole other world.
Marc:Jazz is like another universe, and at some point I'm just like, I don't have a lifetime's worth of focus.
Guest:Yes, because that's what it would take.
Guest:it would take taking everything off your plate and being like, this is all I'm going to be about.
Marc:Right, because people are like, oh, you like Coltrane?
Marc:Did you hear that 1952 recording?
Marc:No, I don't know.
Marc:I just heard the one that everyone gets is the one I have.
Guest:Because it'll be the thing where it's like...
Guest:Hey, you like this guy, right?
Guest:Hey, it's all new stuff.
Guest:It was in the vaults.
Guest:Nine CDs of this run he had at this club.
Guest:And it's just like, well, that would be all it would... That's all I could ever consume for this guy.
Guest:I'll die before I'm done understanding that.
Guest:And I'll be so busy trying to figure out whether or not I'm appreciating it to really have any sense of whether I appreciate it or not.
Guest:It's like, I'll listen sometimes and just be like...
Guest:I'm not going to do anything other than listen.
Guest:I'm not going to read a book while I do this.
Guest:I'm not going to look at anything.
Guest:This demands my attention.
Guest:I'm going to get inside this thing.
Guest:And then I sit there.
Guest:Or I'll do it like if I'm going on a walk through this park.
Guest:I'll just be like, I have my headphones.
Guest:No one's bothering me.
Guest:Don't have my phone on me.
Guest:I'm just going to...
Guest:It's me and this music.
Guest:Zone in.
Guest:And then just like 40 seconds in, I'll just think like, man, I'm hungry.
Guest:And I'm out of it.
Guest:Or just like, oh, wow, look at that tree.
Guest:I'm not getting this.
Guest:I'm not getting this.
Guest:I cannot connect with it.
Guest:And I am just, that haunts me.
Guest:And I will never not take that as a judgment on my intellect.
Yeah.
Marc:But this is the same thing of what we were talking about before.
Marc:Like at some point, like you just have to say like, well, this is my taste.
Marc:You know, I'm not closed minded.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I'm OK with them.
Marc:And, you know, like I don't quite get that.
Marc:Yeah, I'll listen to it again.
Marc:But why not push back a little bit?
Marc:I'm like, you know, fuck you.
Marc:I mean, it's OK.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, if you're going to sit and have somebody talk down at you because you can't wrap your brain around the seemingly infinite Zappa catalog, you've just got to be like, dude, just shut up.
Marc:Good for you.
Guest:There's a couple of songs I enjoy, and I'm going to have to leave it at that.
Guest:I'm too old to invest my life or beat myself up.
Guest:The part that I get, there is no other guy at this point with me.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:I can handle other people.
Guest:I can argue somebody back with those things.
Guest:It's like I'll never be able to argue back the guy in my head.
Guest:And I...
Guest:When do I make my peace with that guy that's just like, you're smart?
Guest:You're smart?
Guest:I just need him to go like, all right, you're smart.
Guest:I'm going to cut you some swag.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I'm going to ease up on the gas.
Guest:Ease up on the pedal.
Marc:Yes, you're... You just want to have that sit down with that guy inside of you, and finally he's going to say, look, I put you through a lot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you did good.
Marc:You did all right.
Marc:That's exactly it.
Marc:It's like...
Marc:And I'm just not going to bother you anymore.
Marc:I'll be here.
Marc:And, you know, if you want me to make suggestions occasionally.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, and that happens to me in a book.
Guest:I'll go in a bookstore.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I'll be on this tear.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or I'll just be like, like, I'll just be like, I'm so stupid.
Guest:And I'll go in the aisle and I'll just be like, I'm buying this.
Guest:Like, I never read this thing.
Guest:I never read that thing.
Guest:And then, like, my bookshelf at home is just filled with
Guest:These books that I've never cracked.
Guest:What's one of them?
Guest:I mean, there's Philip Roth stuff there that I've just never gotten to.
Guest:There's Don Quixote I've made a run at two times.
Guest:Gravity's Rainbow up there?
Guest:Yes, that.
Guest:Finally, it's like, fine, I'll read.
Guest:This is what I'm going to do.
Guest:I'm going to read these small Pinchon things.
Guest:Crying Love 49 is manageable.
Guest:I read those, and it's just like,
Guest:Now I'm going to build.
Guest:It's like I'm working out.
Guest:Like I'm going easy on myself.
Guest:That is a 200-page Pinchon book.
Guest:That'll get me in shape for this 1,100-page one.
Marc:But you know what?
Marc:You don't have to do it.
Guest:You don't have to do it, Tom.
Guest:I know.
Guest:But it's when I'm in a bookstore.
Guest:I look at all these books that everybody's written and... No one's read those.
Guest:There are three guys that have read those.
Guest:So it's like... So what you're saying is it's like... It's a myth.
Guest:Because the secret to it in a diner, things are on the specials menu because they're about to throw them out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like when they're just like salmon thing special, it means that they're stuck with a lot of salmon.
Guest:So they put it as a special...
Guest:So when those things are like propped up on a stand, like right in front of me, it's like...
Guest:I also let the employees' picks get to me also, where it's just like, you know, Derek says that, you know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Why do we assume that?
Guest:At the fucking bookstore, at the record store I'm going to now, it's like Joe's picks.
Marc:And I'm like, who the fuck is Joe?
Guest:I've never even seen this record before.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And I don't know if I'm- They're automatically better than us?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Derek?
Guest:No.
Guest:Derek with no last name?
Guest:I'm just hoping that Derek-
Guest:Because then, like, I don't know what the end game is with it.
Guest:That I'm going to buy it and Derek's going to ring me up and go, yeah, good choice.
Guest:And then I'm going to come back in the next time after I read it.
Guest:Derek's going to go, how'd you like it?
Guest:Do you like that one?
Guest:And now I'm stuck on this guy's treadmill for the rest of my life.
Guest:You're in a Derek rabbit hole.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Now I wonder if I can stump Derek for the book.
Guest:Now I'm going to go in and...
Guest:Well, did you ever read... Let me turn you on to something, Derek.
Guest:Not many people have this one, Derek.
Marc:Stunk.
Marc:But there's something I had this realization lately, and it's also something I'm wrestling with, this idea that I'm not going to get to it.
Marc:There's some things I'm not going to get to that.
Marc:I'll get around to that.
Marc:No, I'm not going to.
Marc:I've actually wrestled with the idea of getting rid of shit.
Marc:Some of those books.
Marc:Because who the hell set that standard?
Marc:I like to read something that'll put some new shit in my head and make me see something differently.
Marc:It's the same with music or anything else.
Marc:But if it's just because this thing is reputed to be
Marc:a masterpiece, I might not fucking lock in, dude.
Marc:I read Don DeLillo's last book.
Marc:I didn't fucking get it.
Marc:And I sat down with Sam Lipsight, who's a genius, and I'm like, all right, tell me what it meant.
Marc:And he's like, well, no, you just have to put it.
Marc:No, I don't.
Marc:I read it.
Marc:I'm not a dumb person.
Marc:Why don't you explain it to me?
Marc:He's like, well, I don't know if I can see.
Marc:Well, so then it was bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm going to say that confidently without having a PhD, with barely paying attention through most of my major in literature.
Marc:You know, like for half-sleeping through the romantic poet concentration I did for a year, I'm going to say that I didn't enjoy it, and fuck him.
Guest:Yeah, but Sam Lipsight is one of those guys who...
Guest:When I did the live version of your show, it was probably a couple years ago at this point, almost, at the Bell House, and it's like...
Guest:I'm getting ready for that thing, and I'm just like, this is just, it just makes me so low.
Guest:I'm just like, yeah, yeah, this guy, a book or whatever, he's not on Twitter, so he writes books.
Guest:I got to go up here and score.
Guest:I'm in this thing and just like, I'm just ready to, like, okay, yeah, whatever.
Guest:That's you in a proud moment.
Guest:I'm just like, yeah, well, I know she's not on Twitter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:like couldn't get it together yeah so who's the smart guy exactly who's falling behind and he's up there and it's just like oh no and he leaves this thing and is done being like a ham bone to the like i'm we're playing to the people and i'm just trying you know yeah and then but then oh no he goes home and he's he's like he writes these books that will live on
Guest:It seems like those are the ones that go the distance, stuff like that.
Marc:Yeah, but still, the thing is, it's all relative to, you know, most of those guys, like if you're going to do it like Sam, which is like, I'm not going to write a television show.
Marc:I'm not going to sell out my talent.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, and I'm acknowledged as a great fiction writer of a generation, but not, believe me, you know, all those guys have their guys.
Marc:I'm not Jonathan Latham.
Marc:How come I'm not, you know, this Franzen guy's kicking my ass.
Marc:I mean, those conversations happen in all different industries.
Marc:No, I'm sure.
Marc:But, you know, he's a teacher.
Marc:He teaches at Columbia.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So he's not going home winning.
Marc:I don't want to shatter you.
Marc:It's like everybody has – it's all relative to how you're framed.
Marc:It's the same with like Pinchon or Zap or anybody else.
Marc:There are people who are the equivalent of –
Marc:of academics and high-level institutions who decide that this stuff is the real stuff.
Marc:And then idiots like me and you who have a chip on our shoulder or a certain insecurity are now judging ourselves relative to the fact that we didn't enjoy that.
Marc:or didn't take the time to integrate it into our beings, so somehow we're lesser.
Marc:On some level, it's like, no, fuck you.
Marc:I'm out here struggling with myself and talking about it and having an impact on people on a day-to-day basis.
Marc:I don't have to live up to reading some nonsensical fucking experiment.
Marc:By a guy who everybody says is a genius because they didn't understand it either?
Marc:You can't read that shit without guidance.
Marc:I mean, I read The Sound and the Fury in college, and it would have made no sense to me if I wasn't taught it.
Guest:Yes, if there wasn't a teacher regularly checking in.
Guest:Yeah, telling you that when the italics start, it's streaming consciousness.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:How did someone... What if some guy buys us a bookstore?
Marc:He hasn't got a chance.
Marc:Who do they write these things for?
Guest:That is such a great point.
Guest:It's like there's no instruction manual for it.
Guest:Just...
Guest:Read this before.
Guest:It's just like in bold.
Guest:It would say just like, do not read this book until you have read this instruction manual.
Guest:Well, that's what colleges are for.
Marc:That's the whole sham of liberal arts education, which I'm not knocking, is that instruction manual.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:It's like, you know, that's why such crap is so popular is that, you know, enough people like looked at the New York Times bestseller list back when it was relevant, say in the 40s and 50s when people were writing, you know, real brain bending mind fucking fiction.
Marc:that was difficult, and people went out and bought them.
Marc:Enough people went out and bought those books and said, I didn't understand a fucking word of that.
Guest:I'm not buying any more of these books.
Guest:Well, I think that's why you have book clubs now where it's like,
Guest:We can all talk our way through these things, but if we're going to try to touch that, I need people to do this with.
Marc:At some point, our feelings and thoughts, Tom, are valid.
Marc:We're smart fellas, and we have good insights.
Marc:Enough said.
Marc:And they're no different than any of their insights.
Marc:They're just framed differently.
Marc:They're not ahead of us, Tom.
Marc:We won.
Marc:Maybe there's no race.
Marc:We don't have to catch up.
Guest:There is no ahead or behind.
Marc:See, no, I'm not trying to catch up.
Marc:I'm here.
Marc:I'm here, and I'm just trying to take in new things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the things that I know I can't understand, look, there's part of me that thinks like, hey, I didn't really get algebra.
Marc:I didn't get chemistry.
Marc:There's still part of me that thinks like, oh, I'm older now.
Marc:Maybe I can understand it now.
Marc:I can't.
Marc:I didn't do the work.
Marc:The groundwork is not in place.
Marc:Just stick with poetry.
Marc:Short form, man.
Marc:Short form.
Guest:Look, all of these things play into something that... You mentioned, will a book last?
Guest:Will Sam Lipsight's work last?
Guest:To those who care about Sam Lipsight, of course.
Guest:It comes down to... If you spend your life trying to build stuff, does it matter...
Guest:one minute after you're dead, what you built?
Guest:You know, like, why should that matter?
Marc:If it's the building we're in, yes.
Guest:Yes, okay, yes, a building.
Guest:I'd rather structures not collapse as soon as somebody dies.
Guest:That would be, that's a pretty, that's a fair point.
Guest:They should make things to last for generations.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's like, if I'm doing my radio show or, you know, you're doing stand-up or the podcast, it's like,
Guest:Do you care?
Guest:What do you care about legacy with any of this?
Marc:That's a good question.
Marc:I don't really think in those terms.
Marc:Everything with me has been sort of like... There's a never...
Marc:Ending frequency in me of like, just like, I'm here.
Marc:I'm here.
Marc:I'm here.
Marc:Look at me.
Marc:I'm here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Am I worried that like, it's there.
Marc:It's there.
Marc:No, I'm not.
Marc:I'm not necessarily worried about that.
Marc:I am careful to make most of my shows evergreen.
Marc:Just, but that's just by virtue is that why would anyone want to listen to it?
Marc:You know, if it's, you know, if it's dated, right?
Marc:You know, if it's hinged to news events.
Marc:You know, I've got shitload of books from the Bush administration when I was at Air America.
Marc:And you just sort of like, no one wants these efforts.
Marc:It's irrelevant.
Marc:But like, and some people say like, oh, you're doing a very important oral history.
Marc:I'm like, am I?
Marc:I mean, are really people going to go back and listen to my stuff years from now?
Marc:Be like, you captured Jim Norton during this.
Marc:Very delicate time during Norton's career.
Marc:So much is always lost.
Marc:So I don't know.
Marc:I don't really think about it that much.
Marc:I'm just happy that I feel like I'm doing something that people dig and that I'm recognized for it in the present.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:That's okay with me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I try not to think about dying, but I get older and I just know it's going to happen.
Marc:That's inevitable.
Marc:And I don't really think about what happens after or that moment.
Marc:I just hope it's not too painful.
Marc:I'm sorry, did I change the tone of everything?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Do you think about Legacy?
Guest:I don't think about it even for myself.
Guest:Because there's no way I'm going to be one of the people who makes the cut on those things.
Guest:Because it's a handful of things.
Guest:The 50s are defined by 10 people.
Marc:No, no, you're right.
Guest:And there's no way I'm ever going to be one of the 10 people who...
Guest:who transcends their time it's just not gonna it's like it's impossible so i don't worry i guess i'm fascinated by it more than just the amount that you put out there and you work and you work and it's your life's work but it kind of go it kind of goes with you like your life's work
Guest:You take that with you.
Marc:So you're telling me that there's never going to be a time where you're going to be on stage with a video of a younger you behind the mic.
Guest:What a live show that would be.
Guest:Can you imagine?
Guest:I hope I have a cyanide capsule on stage.
Guest:Also, that's on the audience.
Guest:Whoever pays to see.
Guest:I'm in my mid-60s now.
Guest:I'm going to get up here.
Guest:Remember the good old days when I did that radio show?
Guest:And you start a monologue that's from the old days, and you're like, today!
Guest:And then, like, you just sort of, the light fades on you, and it comes up.
Guest:On this back?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That would be, yeah, I'll just start talking about something that nobody remembers what it was, like an old, a greatest hit, you know?
Marc:Yeah, but I think, like, I just think the point that we have these discussions are that, like,
Marc:I really think if I had the opportunity and the freedom, I wouldn't do much of anything.
Guest:You've said that before.
Guest:You've said that if somebody handed you $5 million for something, I could fill my life pretty comfortably.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, like, I, I mean, what, you know, what I would, I probably wouldn't do much different than I am now.
Marc:I wouldn't, I wouldn't beat myself up so bad, but like, like, like if I was traveling and I had $5 million in the bank and I was just living on dividends, like there, like this morning, like, or last night I get here and I'm like, I really need to go out to eat.
Marc:So I tweet, you know, like, where should I eat?
Marc:And then there's a lot of options.
Marc:And I start looking at options and proximity and, uh, you know, and I think that during that whole process, there was a threat, like, I might not get out of
Marc:room i just might not be able to get out of the room and and then from there i i i would say uh i would be like oh what the is wrong with me i think that part would be gone i'd be like i might not get out of the room and then that would be replaced with like i have five million dollars
Guest:Yeah, it would just pop up in your head.
Marc:Yeah, in place of like, I'm an idiot.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:That is hilarious.
Guest:It would be where every point landed.
Guest:I'm just like, me and my $5 million aren't leaving the room tonight.
Guest:how long how long is it gonna take to get this fucking coffee just be like can i get that no wait i have five million dollars then you just be like all right coffee what's five dollar what's five million minus five
Guest:It does keep thinking of everything in relation to your $5 million.
Guest:I don't know how these guys, there's certain guys who that clearly... Doesn't matter to.
Guest:No, they just keep going.
Guest:It's like Ben Stiller, who I admire all of his work or something, but that's a different motor in a guy like that to just...
Marc:Yeah, you know, I don't like there are guys that are like, I don't know.
Marc:I don't think I think we're a little similar in that.
Marc:It's just like I'm not driven to to to rule an empire.
Marc:I'm not really competing with with empire builders.
Marc:I just want to be comfortable.
Marc:and be okay with myself and others.
Marc:But some people clearly, the more industrious personalities, they have a plan and their plan is to make an impact and to have a lot of things going on that...
Marc:if they pulled out of their plan, that all the things that they got going on is going to earn them something.
Marc:I don't have that personality.
Marc:I do wish I did a little bit.
Marc:I think it's the same for you, that everything that I'm going to earn requires me showing up and talking.
Marc:There's no like, I'm still earning money and I'm not talking today.
Marc:That's not the business model I'm working with.
Guest:No, it's not like...
Guest:Like ABBA create Mamma Mia.
Guest:It's like, we are not there, but that thing shows up on our behalf.
Guest:Sure, there's not going to be a Broadway show called Sharpling.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:And everyone's going to be like, ooh, is it a musical?
Guest:No, he's not here.
Guest:No, it's just based on his work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it just keeps going.
Guest:And his check shows up at his house every week.
Marc:That's one of my biggest fears, that my mouth is just going to go bad, that something's going to fall out of it, and that I'm going to get hit in the head.
Marc:And I'm going to be like, I can't tell it, and it's not going to be as good a podcast.
Guest:That to me, I even have fears of just like...
Guest:When you talk to these guys who have to go get their teeth replaced and stuff, and then they're just like, they sound different.
Marc:Their teeth don't fit their mouth properly.
Guest:It's very dry.
Guest:They're having saliva issues.
Marc:Yeah, I worry about that.
Marc:Let's think of something.
Marc:So we can each get $5 million.
Marc:I know.
Marc:That's my number.
Guest:Five would be a pretty... You know what?
Marc:One.
Marc:You know, I'll settle for... I don't have any big plans.
Guest:I'll take anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Honestly.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:I've made that pretty... I'm just trying to save some money.
Guest:I've made that pretty clear in my career.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:The number could be pretty low and I'll show up.
Guest:That's not completely true.
Marc:Well, it's pretty true.
Marc:There are some things you won't do.
Marc:Or do you think that people understand the spectrum of what you're capable of doing and no one's going to ask you to show up to do something that would be... There was...
Guest:I've tried to get some pretty bad jobs.
Guest:There was a time me and my friend who I write with on occasion, we were trying to... We've written a couple feature scripts, which puts you vaguely in the mix to pitch your take on a project.
Guest:And then we were on this call where it was for Big Mama's House 3.
Guest:And we were... They're like, yeah, we want it to be...
Guest:have a crime... We wanted to have a good plot.
Guest:And these are the things I think everybody says before they... So I go back, I watch Big Mama's House and then Big Mama's House 2, and I'm just like...
Guest:It's like, yeah, let's figure out a story for this.
Guest:And then, you know, you just go on.
Guest:You tell them the story because we're just like, look, the jokes will come with Big Mama's House 3.
Guest:Let's give them – let's show them that we have an idea for the story and that we'll show them where jokes could go.
Guest:We don't have to repitch the costumes.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's just the montage when he's trying on bras as, you know.
Guest:But as a singer, it's like –
Guest:So we work up this thing, and it's like – and it just – they wanted us, I guess, to just say, like, yeah, and then he farts.
Guest:And then, you know, goes the wrong way down an escalator in the big – gets stuck, you know, in a bowling alley or all the things like that.
Guest:And then – It all ends with – you just see his legs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And then – but now we're – it's like –
Guest:we're not good enough to get Big Mama's House 3.
Guest:It's like, they hated us.
Guest:The people making garbage were beneath them at this point.
Guest:But it's like, did they not like us because we were too good for Big Mama's House 3 or we were not good enough for it?
Guest:But it's that thing, it's like...
Guest:I certainly would have written it if they were just like, congratulations, guys, you got the job.
Marc:I'd have been like... Yeah, but we're just the kind of people that if we can't put our heart into something, it's going to come out that way.
Guest:All that is sales.
Guest:Oh, no, that's exactly.
Guest:And I really do feel like any time I've had a job where it was...
Guest:You kind of hold your nose and you go do the thing.
Guest:And I feel like that it ends up getting hardwired into the DNA of the thing you made.
Guest:People can tell when your heart's not in something.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you can't it's hard to pull off unless that's your thing, unless you know that, like, I'm a sales guy.
Marc:You know, what's the idea?
Marc:I'll sell it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'll follow through with it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Usually, you know, people like in the times I've been able to do that were out of desperation.
Marc:I'm like, I'll sell this idea.
Marc:And it didn't work out.
Marc:You know, thank God.
Marc:Like the game show or even the Comedy Central pilot for the panel show I did.
Marc:My heart wasn't in it, but I needed something to happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But ultimately, there was no follow through in it.
Marc:And it's the same with a couple of the pilot deals that I had.
Marc:You know, one of them I think would have been great.
Marc:But whatever.
Marc:It's just...
Marc:It requires our entire being to be in it to get other people to believe in us.
Guest:Yeah, like it feels like you're doing something because it's like, well, I should be doing something.
Guest:Right, or like I need money.
Guest:Yeah, not like this thing needs to exist.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's like, well, no, yeah, it's time to find a job.
Marc:Are you ready for a pork sandwich yet?
Guest:Yeah, well, I'm not going to eat a pork sandwich, but I'll eat meat.
Marc:Why not?
Guest:I don't eat meat.
Marc:You don't?
Marc:No, I don't.
Marc:How long has that been going on?
Marc:Long time.
Guest:See, nobody can believe I don't eat meat because I'm not exactly... I eat garbage that just happens to not be made of meat.
Marc:I think when we were in New Brunswick and we ate that horrible shitty food, you figured out a way to eat.
Guest:You'd think that they call them the grease trucks.
Guest:That'd be enough of a heads up of...
Guest:that this food's going to be terrible.
Guest:You find something to eat.
Guest:Yeah, I always find something.
Guest:There's always French fries.
Guest:They can always, as long as there's a fryer, I'm usually okay.
Marc:You don't even get to drink your coffee?
Marc:Oh, no, I did this over here.
Guest:You drank it?
Guest:Yeah, I pretty much wiped it out.
Marc:Oh, did you want a biscotti?
Marc:I bought 12.
Marc:You're taking those home to your wife or something.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I'll eat them at the Who concert tonight.
Guest:Bring them along.
Marc:Maybe you can share them with the other old man that'll be sitting next to you.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You want a nice biscotti?
Guest:Tonight it's in New Jersey, so I'm sure Danny Aiello will come down the aisle and take the empty seat next to me.
Marc:With his sunglasses on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Last night I could have thrown a biscotti and hit Pete Townsend.
Guest:That's how close I was.
Marc:So whatever happened with you and John McEnroe, ultimately?
Guest:We ended up kind of settling into a kind of a unspoken agreement.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He eventually found a spot where he was not actively bumping into me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think a tennis alpha male is less threatening than, say, a hockey or basketball.
Guest:See, I would think anybody, if you do any sport where you are the only one out there, you have to, I think, like tennis and boxing.
Marc:But that's very different.
Guest:Because it's just like the thing doesn't exist if you don't show up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The other guy will take care of it.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's like the team plays.
Guest:If I twist my ankle...
Guest:On a basketball team, it's like, well, the game happens.
Guest:I'm just not playing in the game.
Guest:If John McEnroe twists his ankle, it's like, well, the match is canceled.
Marc:Forfeit.
Guest:But that has to be a thing where you're just – it's just me.
Guest:That has to be the – look, I think there's similarities between that and stand-up, I'm sure, where it's like – Well, yeah, but that's a big relief, though.
Marc:That's the only thing – the one thing I envied and never quite understood about playing with other people or being in a band or whatnot –
Marc:It's like, I don't have to, I can just sit back here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I'm adding.
Marc:You know, is it my turn to go up there?
Marc:All right, look, I'm doing this now.
Marc:All right, I'm going to go back now.
Guest:That's your improv.
Marc:But also, like, I never understood teamwork, and I was always very self, you know, like, I was afraid of it.
Marc:But, like, after doing the radio show and then, like, working on the TV show and stuff, if I'm working with good people, it's a pleasure, you know, to know that other things are taken care of.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Like, if I get to, like, I'm furious if I get to a club or a gig and they got the wrong kind of mic stand or a wireless mic, I'm like, really, can't we just, it just, don't give me a boom stand and don't, I want a cord.
Marc:I just, is that too much to require?
Marc:But I like working with entrusting other people that we're all working towards the same thing.
Marc:It's a very good feeling, and it's a new thing for me, relatively new.
Guest:When you know they have your back, it's great because you get to lower one of your kind of shields of defense.
Marc:Yeah, and also there's just a point where you're like, I don't know how to do that.
Marc:You got a guy that does that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, good.
Marc:So he's going to take care of that?
Marc:All right, then I'll just do what I do, and it's a workout.
Guest:It's like, wait.
Guest:I was like, wow, he did that fast, too.
Guest:It's like, oh, no, because that's what he does.
Marc:Yeah, and then that's only a stone's throw away from like, why didn't I learn how to do that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I should have learned how to do that.
Guest:It's like a better job.
Guest:That haunts me.
Guest:Why did I not learn how to design websites?
Guest:I could be doing anything I think of.
Guest:But it's like it would be 10 hours of sitting at a computer to put up one little thing.
Guest:Yeah, you got to get a guy to do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like I always assume that it's just like it's so easy for those people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm like, how do you put the YouTube video up?
Marc:I got my assistant.
Marc:Will you do that?
Marc:And she's like, yeah, it's not a problem.
Marc:Like, oh, thank fucking God.
Marc:Because it would, just to wrestle with anything.
Marc:Like, I got a Mac guy.
Marc:This guy, Jeremy, he's my Mac guy.
Marc:Calls himself Mac man.
Marc:And, like, if anything happens on the computer, I call and my girlfriend's like, you can just Google what other people are doing.
Marc:I'm like, oh, but then I got to go through all that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And read other, you know, and troubleshoot?
Marc:But that's the only way you learn how to do anything with these fucking things is to solve a problem on your own, even if it requires...
Marc:researching it a little bit.
Marc:That's how you learn how to use a computer.
Marc:At some point, that's the problem with this age gap where you're like, oh, I can't.
Marc:How do you make it go?
Marc:I got to call the guy.
Marc:Help me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Whereas you just try it.
Marc:And then if you solve something by yourself on one of those things, you're like, wow.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I should be able to do anything on this now.
Guest:Me fixing stuff around the house, if I nail something, it's kind of like, yeah, maybe I could build an extra room on the house.
Guest:Your mind just runs wild.
Marc:Well, you can, but you have to realize that, okay, I'm going to embark on this.
Marc:It's going to be a learning process, and the results are going to be subpar.
Marc:That's the best that can happen, is that I'll do it, but I'll have to explain to people when they come over, like, yeah, that's like that because I did it myself.
Marc:That's why that part is broken.
Guest:Yeah, there's a reason why there's no lights in this room.
Marc:Yeah, I forgot that.
Marc:But I built the whole thing.
Marc:I just overlooked that.
Marc:So that's why you hire guys.
Marc:Either you decide, like, I'm going to accept this as a learning process, and we'll see what happens, and I'm okay with that, or I'm going to pay the guy to fix it.
Marc:But if you pay the right guy and you build a relationship with that guy, you'll feel like you kind of helped.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You'll feel like, look, I earned my money.
Yeah.
Guest:doing the thing I'm good at, and it allows me to pay this dude who does the thing he's good at.
Guest:But I actually get a feeling of pride.
Marc:I had a guy fix my fucking toilet.
Marc:I imagine I could have figured it out with a book, but he came in, and he did a great job, and he explained it to me.
Marc:And part of me, I was like, I'm proud of us for getting through this.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's funny you say a toilet.
Guest:We'll wrap up in a second.
Guest:But I was just like...
Guest:There was a point where the toilet was leaking, and I'm just like... Where was it leaking?
Guest:In the base?
Guest:The... Yeah, the...
Guest:the plot like the plunger at the you know whatever like the seal yeah yeah was not oh you mean it was running it was making that sound yeah yeah yeah i can fix that so it's just like i gotta like this is you should be able to do horrific that i i'm not gonna call a guy 150 dollars so i'm just like learn about this do it and then i and i did it
Guest:And I was way too proud of myself.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:How many shows did you get out of that?
Guest:You mean of talking about it?
Guest:Actually, I think I kept this one as a private triumph.
Guest:This is a private... It was too special.
Guest:I didn't want to share it with anybody.
Guest:But it was that thing where I just like...
Guest:yeah i did this and then like another toilet started doing it like a year later i'm just like and i tried to fix it it's like and it was something different and i'm just like oh boy the ceiling wow the bar was very low on my ability to fix the thing i couldn't i can't get this chain it's like it's still running oh come on yeah i thought i had this aced fine what's the guy's number yeah
Guest:But you had your moment.
Guest:I did have my moment.
Marc:I had this thing where the toilet was leaking from around the base, and I knew it was loose down there, but I didn't know what was going on there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it just, water started coming out, and I'm like, this has to be stopped, and I have no idea where to even begin.
Marc:So I called this plumber who was very available, and he came over.
Marc:Apparently, under your toilet, there's a hole.
Marc:It's the top of a pipe.
Marc:On top of the hole is this thing that your toilet screws into.
Marc:In between your toilet and this bolting thing, there's a wax gasket.
Marc:It's a big hole.
Marc:Now, somehow or another.
Marc:Yeah, me neither.
Marc:Somehow or another, the wax gasket had deteriorated and the thing that was on top of the pipe had rusted out.
Marc:So he pulls this thing off and he shows me all this stuff and tells me what he has to do.
Marc:And I'm like, that's definitely simple once you know.
Marc:What it is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's a fixable thing to a plumber.
Marc:And but there was part of me that thinks like I could have fixed it.
Marc:But that's where I learned that lesson.
Marc:It's sort of like, do I want to make this a learning experience that would probably end my relationship by virtue of the aggravation I would go through?
Marc:I would have to buy tools I would never use again.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Or do I pay this guy $800 to make it perfect?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he did that.
Marc:But I would check in with him.
Marc:I'm like, where were we at?
Marc:Did you get the thing on?
Marc:The wax heels all set?
Marc:So just because he had educated me initially as to what exactly was going on, once he finished it, I'm like, we did a great job with that.
Guest:Yeah, it was a two-man job.
Guest:somebody's got to be the foreman you were the foreman you delegated yeah yeah because it those things it seems like you like wait it kind of feels like they built the house around the toilet in a way like you don't know there's a what well yeah there's all this complicated and he fixed some other stuff and you know and then you just then you know that guy's there for you yeah yeah call him up but then you just got to stop yourself from going like yeah 800 dollars
Marc:Without any point of reference.
Marc:He can start asking other people.
Marc:Does he want a lot to pay for that?
Marc:How long do you take him?
Marc:Four hours.
Marc:No, it's fine.
Guest:And he will stand by it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right, let's go.
Yeah.
FBI C.I.A.
Guest:Thank you.
Thank you.