BONUS The Friday Show - Oscars Wild
Marc:I thought to myself that was very entertaining and fun, but tremendously stupid.
Marc:And I couldn't believe it was like being thought of as like a prestige Oscar movie.
Marc:And at this point, sure.
Marc:Win.
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:Like, like I'm thinking about it.
Marc:It's like they gave an Oscar to green book.
Yeah.
Guest:Hey, Chris.
Guest:Hey, Brendan.
Guest:It is Oscar weekend.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I got my tux pressed, ready to go.
Marc:It's one of those t-shirt tuxedos.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So, you know, you look classy, but also like you know how to party.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You get it.
Marc:Yes, it will be.
Marc:Sunday night is the Oscars.
Marc:You know, as you've been listening here on WTF for the past month, we've had guests on to talk about their nominated roles or films they directed.
Marc:We had Mark do a bonus Oscar episode.
Marc:I like when Mark does his picks because he's he's considerate about them.
Guest:Yes, he is.
Guest:He goes into his process, which I really enjoy.
Marc:Well, it's also he's not just like reactive.
Marc:He's not just like, oh, that movie.
Marc:Yeah, I like that.
Marc:You know, like like, you know, I like the fact that he kind of deliberated himself into a couple of picks.
Marc:Like he was like, you know what?
Marc:I would give this to Ralph Fiennes.
Marc:You know, like he he sat there thinking about it and came up with his winner, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was fun.
Guest:I agree with him that I have to be in a certain mindset for foreign films.
Guest:Like, I saw both foreign films, and I feel like I wasn't in the right mindset, but one got me there, even though I was not prepared for it.
Marc:One of the nominated films?
Marc:That's right, yeah.
Marc:Oh, which one?
Marc:I'm still here.
Marc:Oh, I've definitely, you know, you had to go to the theater to see that, right?
Marc:I did.
Marc:Yeah, because I tried to watch it at home.
Guest:It's not available yet.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And my AMC near me, it's actually not even the one near me.
Guest:It's one like a little bit further out.
Guest:It only had a 1030 in the morning showing, right?
Guest:So I'm like...
Guest:all right, I guess that's what I'm going to do with my morning.
Guest:I'm basically in my pajamas.
Guest:I'm going to my local AMC.
Guest:Thank you, AMC, for showing at least this movie at some point.
Guest:But I was not in the right headspace for it, but it won me over.
Guest:Like, it was...
Marc:And Fernanda Torres, who's nominated, she's excellent in it.
Guest:So, so very good.
Guest:I'll be honest with you.
Guest:I didn't even know it was a true story going in.
Guest:Oh, I didn't know that either.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Well, it is.
Guest:It's a true story.
Guest:And I went in completely blind.
Guest:And again, was not really in the mood for a foreign film or a film in general.
Guest:And I...
Guest:I shed a tear.
Guest:I shed a bunch of tears towards the end.
Guest:It was a phenomenal performance and it really won me over.
Guest:It just shows the power of these movies.
Guest:And I'll be honest with you, I don't think I can get the same reaction from sitting on my couch, you know, watching a movie.
Guest:Like it's really, you have to just escape into a theater.
Guest:And yeah, it was such a powerful movie.
Marc:So I was thinking that seeing The Brutalist is that, you know, there's got to be such a disparity between watching that movie, but all movies that are like, you know, three plus hours long.
Mm hmm.
Marc:Watching them at home on your couch versus watching them in a theater.
Marc:Like even if you give absolute undivided attention to the film, when you are at home, that's a distraction.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Being at home is a distraction.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When you're sitting in this movie theater and you just, the lights go off and you got nothing to do, no place to go.
Marc:You turn your phone off.
Marc:You can go there for like that thing hit the intermission.
Marc:I was shocked.
Marc:I was like, wait a minute.
Marc:They put an intermission at one hour.
Marc:Like I thought this was three and a half hours.
Marc:Like I looked at my phone and it was almost two full hours had gone by.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I couldn't believe it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, look, most movies, I mean, all movies are like, it's like a plane taking off, right?
Guest:It's like, all right, we're taking off now and we're at an altitude.
Guest:And that movie in particular is so difficult because that movie you actually land in
Guest:Right.
Guest:You land the plane.
Guest:You're in the real world for 15 minutes.
Guest:And then you have to get back up to that cruising altitude.
Guest:And that movie does it.
Marc:Oh, well, like it's a very smart way to start that second act with with exactly like what your emotion.
Marc:Oh, he's going to meet his wife.
Marc:Like, you know, so you're right away.
Marc:You're like paying attention.
Marc:You want him.
Marc:And they tease that scene out.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's like, where is she?
Marc:Is she down there?
Marc:So like any stragglers who are not mentally locked in yet get locked in.
Marc:exactly yeah but it's also it's like just the act of going to that movie theater right slowing my brain down slowing down stop thinking about work stop thinking about bullshit walk to the movie theater go into the movie theater have a seat
Marc:I use the restroom beforehand because it's going to be three hours.
Marc:And, you know, there's a, you know, where you watch the stuff, the preview stuff and the commercials and everything, like just get into a slower mindset.
Marc:If I had just gotten up from this computer and walked downstairs and sat on my couch and put that movie on, there's no way that I would have been there.
Guest:No.
Guest:It's just impossible, right?
Guest:It's literally, you cannot replicate that experience because that experience is so special.
Guest:And I feel that way about most movies that are like Dune 2, right?
Guest:It's like, great.
Guest:I went to the theater.
Guest:I had a wild, wonderful ride.
Guest:I cannot replicate that now, even if I buy it on disc, right?
Guest:It's like, all right, I'm going to be watching it at home.
Guest:It's still not going to be the same aspect ratio.
Guest:I'm not going to get the enormity of this motion picture.
Guest:And it's a real thing that is, I hope it doesn't go away and people realize that this is necessary for these things to work.
Marc:I mean, this was, this is George Lucas's argument from when, you know, he started making the Star Wars prequels was that like, you know, people were like, oh, you're making these on digital.
Marc:And doesn't that mean that, you know, the film process isn't going to matter anymore and people don't need to go to movie theaters where there's film projectors.
Marc:And he was like, that'll never change.
Marc:Like people want to go to a live show.
Marc:experience just the same way they go to live sports like you've been able to watch sports on your at your house for you know since the 1950s that doesn't mean there are empty stadiums around the country like people still go so like you're gonna always want that experience it's never gonna change yeah yeah for sure and yeah that that brutalist man what so tell me what what what did you think
Guest:Oh, I mean, it's a hell of a thing.
Marc:And I love, I mean, you said it when you saw it, that it's like, man, I love long movies.
Marc:And it's like, yeah, if you can do it, if you can nail it, there's nothing better than sitting in a movie that you know is going to be long and realizing that you're totally fucking in it and engaged.
Marc:And you're like, I don't care if they make this another hour.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I really like, you know, there's a novelistic approach to the way the movie is made, almost to the point, you know, Mark has said this when talking about it, that it's like it feels like it's based on a novel that doesn't exist.
Marc:And, you know, like this thing you're watching is the epic adaptation of some, you know, very highly regarded novel.
Marc:Like it's like Dr. Zhivago or something.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But it's not.
Marc:It's made up out of whole cloth.
Marc:And yet with that ability of like of space and and depth, the filmmakers here.
Marc:are able to create a space you can kind of live in and walk around in and let little things happen and little things sit and linger, you know, like you don't need, um, a full explanation of, you know, that, uh, that worker, that, that, that black worker who is with him and he has his son.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And there's this brief scene at, uh, where they're over for dinner and you get like something about that son and,
Marc:that, you know, I don't want to, you know, reveal the whole scene to people who haven't seen it, but like this little scene and then you never see this son again.
Marc:He's in that scene and that's it.
Marc:And you're like, wow, that little bit was so resonant with the rest of the themes in the movie.
Marc:And like,
Marc:But you don't it's not it's not like he's a symbol or something.
Marc:It's just like that's a character with a lived life.
Marc:And I understand something about it now.
Marc:And and that is what we're seeing throughout.
Marc:Like we see this with the niece character and we see this basically with the traumas that they've all developed.
Marc:And it's just really great to have that kind of care and attention in a movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was a little shocked though, for a movie that has so much attention paid to those type of character moments, details throughout, just everything about architecture.
Marc:And, you know, you feel like it's one of those movies, you feel like you're learning something while you're watching it.
Marc:You're like, I didn't know anything about this brutalism.
Marc:And like this, you're learning about it as you're watching it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How did they let him get away with wearing that beard?
Yeah.
Marc:like that's the worst beard i've ever seen including on like snl or like a high school play like that took you out there is a there is a south park where they glue pubes to cardman's face so he can have a beard and it looked better than his beard in that seat those scenes the
Marc:That's the worst.
Marc:Like, God, I like, I get it.
Marc:It's a $10 million movie.
Marc:Like it's, it's this huge epic that they made on the cheap.
Marc:Then cut the beard.
Marc:Like just like do something else to indicate he aged in three years or whatever.
Marc:Don't make him wear that beard.
Guest:Some people's beards aren't that great.
Guest:You know, it just happens.
Guest:It just happens.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, that didn't take me out of it.
Guest:I'm perfectly happy.
Guest:I'm one of those people I can't grow a very good beard.
Guest:So I don't know.
Marc:I guess I wouldn't slap a piece of felt on your face either where you could see the space between his skin and the beard.
Marc:Another thing I will say, if I get my brief criticisms of the film out of the way, I'm not a prude, man.
Marc:I take the Maude Lebowski approach.
Marc:I think sex can be a zesty enterprise.
Marc:I have no problem seeing it in films.
Marc:I push back against this idea that there's problems with depicting sex on film.
Marc:I am done with fraught handjobs in movies.
Marc:Think of something else, guys.
Marc:We have seen enough of the fraught handjobs.
Marc:I need a different mode of expression than that.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Was it just not believable?
Marc:No, just too much.
Marc:Now it's like a cliche.
Marc:It's like, oh, this couple is having a hard time connecting.
Marc:Well, they'll do a crying handjob.
Marc:Great.
Marc:We should have an Oscar category for that now.
Guest:I, uh, I don't enjoy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's, it's one of those things like, Hey, we can skip this part, right?
Guest:Like we get it.
Guest:There's something else.
Marc:There's gotta be a million other ways you can touch your partner.
Marc:That's not a crying hand job.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Some ass play, whatever you want to do.
Guest:I've never had a crying head job.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe there's something very exciting about it.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Uh, apparently they happen a lot.
Marc:If you're watching movies in the last 20 years.
Marc:Wait, what's another crying handjob?
Marc:Oh, I mean, it's just like in The Master, there's a fraud handjob.
Marc:Oh, that's right, yeah.
Marc:There's the one where Bill Murray plays FDR, he gets a handjob.
Marc:They're just like, you know what I think it is?
Marc:I think it's like, it's easy to fake a handjob, right?
Marc:You just put your handjob.
Marc:hand down there and move nobody's got to whip anything out you could i'm sure intimacy coordinators are involved but it's not like okay make sure to position your body here so your body parts don't fly around or whatever and like i think because it's that easy there's just a lot of people put it in their movies right that's the go-to because it's like yeah yeah we can just we can do this just yada yada it sort of yeah i gotcha
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Especially with this movie was like, had no problem with all sorts of sexuality.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I'm like, wow, really?
Marc:We got to do the under the, under the blanket hand job scene for, for like five minutes.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I think there's one in Moonlight.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:I know there's one in, um, what's the show I watched, uh, Breaking Bad.
Guest:There's a, there's a pivotal hand job, uh, happening there.
Guest:I
Marc:I feel like there's so many you can't even, it's like, it's like that scene in the blues brothers when the train is going by the window and he's like, how often does that happen?
Marc:Oh, so often you won't even notice it.
Marc:That's how I feel about it right now.
Marc:Like, I'm like, man, I, this is like, it should be on my ticket when I go in now, you know, you're going to see this movie front handjob.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Like, like one of the, uh, with the MPAA logo, it's like violence and handjob.
Guest:Throw it up there at the beginning.
Guest:Totally.
Yeah.
Marc:You know, we're speaking of movies and we're going to do our Oscar talk in a couple of minutes before we moved on to that stuff.
Marc:I did want us to talk about something very sad that happened.
Marc:And frankly, as of the time we're recording this, we don't really know a ton of details.
Marc:It doesn't sound great that, you know, a husband, wife and their dog all died at the same time.
Marc:And and, you know, there will obviously be an investigation about it and there might be more details by the time you hear this.
Marc:But let's just put the details of that aside and talk for a minute about one of our favorite actors, you and I and I think a lot of people, Gene Hackman.
Marc:a great actor.
Marc:I mean, 95 years old, I was not surprised to see that he had died, but I was very surprised to see there was both Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy Arakawa, who is only 64 years old and a classical pianist.
Marc:It's just a real tragedy there.
Marc:And I'm sure there will be an investigation and they'll find out what happened.
Marc:They're saying they ruled out foul play, but there's an investigation going on.
Marc:And yet I still think
Marc:we can focus for a moment on just how great that guy was and how much we've enjoyed him throughout our lives.
Marc:I mean, really, for me, it's my whole life from when I was a very little kid.
Marc:You too, right?
Guest:I mean, like the first thing you ever saw, man, was Superman, I'm sure, right?
Guest:He's Lex Luthor.
Guest:He's my Lex Luthor.
Guest:Like he is a person who's been in my life forever.
Guest:for the entirety of it.
Guest:And in roles that are so like, like ingrained in my memory.
Guest:Like so many of them too.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:I was looking through his IMDB and it's like the young Frankenstein, the conversation, the French connection.
Guest:Like he is just like, and one of the, the greats, if not one, like the actual greatest, like he is.
Guest:He's in the conversation.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:He was one of those guys.
Marc:He's one of the, he's one of the first people I can ever remember.
Marc:And I've heard, I've heard this said a lot by, by a lot of people in my life and, and people I've just heard from where, you know, people say, I would watch that person, you know, any, any actor, male or female, I would watch that person do anything.
Marc:I would watch them read the phone book, right?
Marc:That Gene Hackman was, I remember my dad saying that about him.
Marc:Like we were watching when I was a kid, we were watching Mississippi Burning and he was like, this guy, man, I just, I will watch him read the phone book.
Marc:And I heard that a million times now in my life.
Marc:But he, to me, is like the original version of that.
Marc:Like, yeah, I watched it.
Marc:And I remember like watching that movie and he's like, it was just, it was for me, even as a kid, just watching little things of like how he stood up and hiked up his pants.
Marc:Like to me, I was like, that looked real.
Marc:Like, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that was interesting to watch.
Marc:This guy hiking up his pants by the belt.
Marc:He's got a little belly sticking over it.
Marc:I get that.
Marc:That's a real guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He's also a guy that you cannot take your eyes off of him.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Like a movie like Crimson Tide.
Guest:He is just...
Guest:Like just so powerful in like, not just what he says, but his reactions to the actors.
Guest:Like he has a presence that is like, can't not be matched.
Guest:Like, like,
Guest:like i remember the firm he's so good in the firm absolutely that you almost feel bad for him towards the end like it is it is a it is a great performance and you can say that about most you know all of his performances like he's like the birdcage how great is he in the birdcage
Marc:Even, even ones where they're kind of a phone in, well, or what does he call it?
Marc:Money jobs, money jobs.
Marc:The story apparently is Ben Stiller came up to him on the set of the Royal Tenenbaums and, and like as a, after, after working like weeks, if not months with him, right?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, and he said, uh, he wanted to talk to him about how the Poseidon adventure made such an impact on him as a kid and, uh, and how great it was.
Marc:And Gene Hackman just went, Oh yeah, money job.
Yeah.
Guest:Love that.
Marc:I will never forget that story.
Marc:But, you know, you mentioned Crimson Tide.
Marc:That came out in 1995.
Marc:And he had three movies in 1995, which is one of those things where you realize, like, again, you and I talk about how he was around for all of our lives, you know, our whole lives.
Marc:And really...
Marc:hasn't made a movie basically retired from acting in 2004.
Marc:So like over 20 years ago, but it's because so many of these movies are indelible that they have lasted, you know, throughout.
Marc:And, uh, and you know, it doesn't feel like he's been absent for the last 20 years.
Marc:Cause we've kept watching the movies, but like in 1995 alone,
Marc:This is a guy who was in his 60s at this point.
Marc:He made The Quick and the Dead, which is awesome.
Marc:Crimson Tide, which is even greater.
Marc:And then a total departure from the type of guy you're talking about, playing the role of the frightening, very domineering guy who could go toe-to-toe with Denzel Washington and you don't bat an eyelash at that.
Marc:He plays like the world's biggest loser in Get Shorty.
Marc:And he's so amazing in it.
Marc:Like what a banner year.
Marc:Like in his age, you know, 65, he makes these three movies and he's just phenomenal in them.
Guest:Yeah, showcasing all of his talents.
Guest:Actually, not even all of his talents, but some of the talents.
Guest:He's like a Swiss army knife of an actor.
Guest:You can put him in any role and he's going to do it.
Guest:He's going to bring it.
Guest:You can put him with anyone.
Guest:Have him in the replacements with Keanu Reeves and it makes it just an actual watchable movie.
Marc:Yeah, a bad movie turned to watchable.
Marc:He was one of those guys.
Marc:He could turn to bad.
Marc:Maybe not loose cannons, but pretty much anything else.
Marc:There's two movies from the late 80s, early 90s that are great.
Marc:Gene Hackman elevated this.
Marc:Although, maybe I'm not giving them enough credit because they have good craftsmen behind them.
Marc:But there's a movie called The Package.
Marc:Have you ever seen that?
Marc:No.
No.
Marc:Dude, you would love it because it is directed by Andy Davis, the guy who directed The Fugitive.
Marc:And the idea is it's a Cold War movie.
Marc:It's like a spy movie.
Marc:And the package is a guy.
Marc:He's got to deliver this package, who is this spy, played by...
Marc:tommy lee jones right so it is gene hackman and tommy lee jones had like like tete-a-tete it's so it's like it's it's not like the greatest movie but for like an 80s spy movie elevated by those two guys totally enjoyable the other one is a remake of narrow margin which is a thriller set on a train a whodunit set on a train basically like almost like a murder on the orient express type thing
Marc:and he's great in it it is directed by one of my go-to directors underrated directors peter hyams who made outland and uh the relic time cop like peter hyams is like a a uh a journeyman but like a great craftsman and uh narrow margin is a total fun time and hackman is great it's like one of those movies where they're like you know what
Marc:you're an action hero.
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:Go do it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You mentioned French connection to the, that was his best, best actor Oscar.
Marc:He won best supporting actor for another one of my favorite movies, Unforgiven, which he is absolutely amazing in it.
Marc:Again, that level of like, I'll watch this guy, you know, put pans underneath the dripping ceiling of his house.
Marc:He's amazing doing that.
Yeah.
Marc:um but yeah that movie i mean it's just so great and another it's like the firm you know it comes down to it he's absolutely the bad guy the famous line is that he says i don't deserve this when he's about to be killed and clint says deserves got nothing to do with it but he absolutely deserves it and yet you watch it and be sad that you've just lost him in the movie because he's been so great the whole time um
Marc:and of course uh we would be remiss i i like to think of it as his final role i know that he did two more films afterwards uh but you know those are basically just trivia questions at this point the real culmination of this guy is the titular royal tenenbaum and uh
Marc:You know, it comes up like at least once a week for me.
Marc:Like something from, not just from Royal Tenenbaums, like something of Gene Hackman in Royal Tenenbaums.
Marc:It's like he is, there was something about him that's like in the kind of pre-Trump world that like makes total sense as like, well, this was a bastard, but like this was the good kind of bastard.
Marc:Right, right.
Right.
Marc:Like, why didn't we keep guys like this?
Marc:Why did we have to go that way?
Guest:Yeah, he was a tolerable, you know, bastard.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or as Danny Glover says, I don't think you're an asshole, Royal.
Marc:I just think you're kind of a son of a bitch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And can I just say, I see so much of myself in Royal Tannenbaum.
Guest:Like, I...
Guest:I quote his lines from that movie all the time.
Guest:Like, you know, just the other day, I called someone True Blue.
Guest:I called you True Blue.
Guest:And like, it's such a weird line, but it is stuck in my brain as like, oh, well, this is an expression that I will now have forever.
Guest:And he's...
Guest:He brought that, and what's amazing is Wes Anderson tells the story of like, he approached Gene Hackman saying, hey, I have, I wrote a part for you in this movie.
Guest:And Gene Hackman was like, no, thank you.
Guest:I do not want that because whatever you think I am, I don't want that, you know, exactly.
Guest:And he had a really like, you know, you know,
Guest:harass him or you know ask him to be in the royal tenenbaum so finally he read the script and finally he he said okay even though he was not getting what he should oh you know what he expected to get financially and uh thank god he did because it is the defining role i think of his career and i really feel so yeah
Guest:I mean, look, you can say Popeye in The French Connection, but I truly think Royal Tenenbaum is a showcase, a love letter to Gene Hackman.
Marc:Which is ironic because he was apparently such an asshole on the set and everyone disliked him.
Marc:I believe Bill Murray, basically like...
Marc:had to confront him on behalf of everyone else because he, and Bill Murray being the guy with like some gravitas who could do that.
Marc:But like, there's, there's just a litany of stories about how much of a jerk he was on the set.
Marc:And honestly, look, I'm not advocating people should be mistreated on a movie set.
Marc:That's no good.
Marc:Um, but yeah,
Marc:That's a great movie.
Marc:One of the great movies.
Marc:And I think their entire dynamic with him is informed by how much they disliked him off set.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:And... It played into their performances, for sure.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Very sorry for you all to have gone through that, but...
Guest:It was worth it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, look, it's almost like he was method acting, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's like, all right, so this guy's kind of an asshole.
Guest:Okay, cool.
Guest:Got it.
Guest:I'm going to be an asshole on set.
Guest:What's the difference between that and Daniel Day-Lewis being Lincoln?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:This guy is who he is.
Guest:So let's use it for our roles.
Guest:So I don't know.
Guest:I feel like Gene Hackman gets a pass for Royal Tenenbaums.
Marc:Well, I'm glad that these things exist in our life.
Marc:It's very sad to have lost him, especially he and his wife in what seemed to be unsettling circumstances.
Marc:So we will obviously be throwing on some Gene Hackman movies in the near future.
Marc:The package.
Marc:Let's see if it's streaming.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know if it is.
Marc:I didn't check, but definitely like it's just enjoyable to have those two guys, you know, going back and forth.
Guest:I bet.
Guest:And wasn't that the movie that Tommy Lee Jones was in that movie?
Guest:And that guy was like, oh, I want Tommy Lee Jones to be in The Fugitive.
Marc:Yeah, well, you put him in Under Siege next and then puts him in the future.
Marc:And by that point, he's like, this is my guy.
Marc:Like, I'm working with this guy.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, Gene Ackman, RIP, I want to talk a little bit about your episodes this week.
Guest:And in particular, Carrie Coon.
Guest:Can, can I just, do you happen to have Carrie Coon's number?
Guest:Like, I just want to know.
Guest:You think you've got a shot now?
Guest:She seems open to possibilities.
Marc:Well, apparently that got us, this was another, I think mitigated by the fact that Carrie Coon and Tracy Letts are cool and are, are, you know, Tracy is friends with Mark and they were texting about this and thought it was quite silly, but like, apparently that made news.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:and and they like the headlines were like uh you know white lotus star admits to open marriage with actor husband then i get in grease about where that came from or whatever and it's like we didn't do anything i i cannot control the words coming out of their mouths right
Marc:And but I think they handled it fine.
Marc:It's just one of those things like it bums me out, man, that like people can't just talk and not have it be turned into garbage by other outlets looking to, you know, vulture in on it.
Guest:Oh, I mean, look, man, that's the TMZ.
Guest:That's the pop culture sort of machine.
Guest:Like they, they live for that stuff.
Guest:They, they, they survive their mosquitoes of, of the world.
Guest:So it's just like, what?
Guest:And I don't, I don't think there's, it's going away anytime soon.
Marc:So no, and all we can do is act above board, but like, it definitely hurts.
Marc:It's like, it definitely does not make it easy to get guests on the show.
Marc:It does not make it easy to get people who can speak openly and, and,
Marc:Uh, yeah, it's like everybody's just used to the same bullshit and the, you know, it's, it's, um, it's limiting.
Marc:It's limiting.
Marc:I'll put it that way.
Guest:Gotcha.
Guest:Well, I, I loved that episode.
Guest:I do wish Mark watched the leftovers or at least let the final episode of the leftovers.
Guest:Cause that, that to me.
Guest:Why would you have him watch the final episode if he hasn't watched the whole thing?
Guest:He's got to watch the whole thing.
Guest:I mean, yes, but that last episode is like,
Guest:look, there are many great last episodes of shows, but that last episode was basically the creators of that show being like, hey, let's get Carrie Coon in Emmy because this is a tour de force episode and it's all her.
Guest:Non-stop, it's like 70 minutes long and it's all her.
Guest:The episode is actually called The Book of Nora, which is her character's name.
Guest:And
Guest:The performance in that shook me to my core and it was the most naked acting I've ever seen.
Guest:And it is just – it is a beautiful moment.
Guest:And I – what I – why I say the last episode, I think you could have –
Guest:skipped the entire series and just watched that one episode to get the essence of that character.
Guest:Cause it's all right there in that episode that, that it is a phenomenal, like I've never seen a, a, you know, an actor like,
Guest:go and put themselves out there like that episode.
Guest:It is remarkable.
Guest:Like she is fucking incredible, dude.
Guest:Like that episode is all time.
Marc:Well, people, people love that show.
Marc:I've never watched it.
Marc:I've never watched the Gilded Age either, but I did, you know, try to get, like, I gave Mark basically like a smorgasbord and was like,
Marc:Go nuts.
Marc:Carrie Coon.
Marc:Enjoy what you like.
Marc:And obviously, based on that, I knew what his predilections are.
Marc:And he absolutely was going to go and watch The Nest.
Marc:And he did.
Marc:And it disturbed him the way that I knew it would.
Marc:And I think he wanted to watch...
Marc:her first role again, which he had seen gone girl, but he rewatched it.
Marc:And I just think, you know, limited hours and whatever.
Marc:And so he wasn't going to watch the TV shows he hadn't seen.
Marc:But, but it's like in a way though, it doesn't matter.
Marc:Like, look, that conversation was lengthy.
Marc:It was even longer.
Marc:I, you know, I think, you know, maybe I cut like 15, 20 minutes out of it, frankly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because they're familiar, even if they don't know each other very well, like he knows her husband very well.
Marc:And so they have a familiarity with each other.
Marc:And so it's kind of just this conversation that's going all over the place.
Marc:And so, I mean, to me personally, I would much prefer that in any episode.
Marc:Then it's like, so tell me about this episode.
Marc:movie or this oh totally tv show like just have if you if people are on a good vibe and they're talking go for it and you know in in her sense it was it was one of those things where her as a conversation partner like it basically satisfies my whole thesis for this show which is like yeah this is a show about mark and it's like he brings people into his world but it's like by the time they're in the midst of this conversation and you've
Marc:learn things about her it's revealed about her but then it's like she's like you know he's talking about doing his stand-up building his show and building his new hour and how he feels about it and she's like how'd that feel in your body and i'm like well there's a question we've never gotten to him before and now is more new insight about him like that's the way that's that's the show working it's working and
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's the magic.
Guest:Man, I loved when Mark and Carrie Coon were saying, you're there because they wanted you.
Guest:Be in that room like you have this job.
Guest:I actually took that pretty personally.
Guest:It's like, yeah, that's right.
Guest:And like, that's why I'm doing this show because you did want me.
Guest:So, yes, I'm going to act more like that.
Guest:So, yeah, you know.
Marc:That's good advice for anybody at any time because people always, you know, the imposter syndrome is real.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And can we just release the Fincher tape already?
Guest:Like, holy cow.
Guest:Like, I love that she's just like, I love David Fincher.
Guest:That guy.
Guest:What a guy.
Marc:Everyone Mark's ever told that to who knows him is immediately like, that makes sense.
Marc:That he doesn't want it.
Right.
Guest:What do we need to do for David Fincher to approve this episode?
Guest:My God.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You want to send an email?
Guest:Let's get a writing campaign going.
Guest:But yeah, really, really fun talk.
Guest:And yeah, Carrie Coon, fucking treasure.
Guest:Have you been watching White Lotus season three?
Marc:Uh, well, there's only been two episodes and I have only watched the first one.
Marc:So I, but, uh, you know, we're, we're like, Dawn and I are like a week late on catching up on it.
Marc:Like we catch up on it on the weekend, which means we will watch episode two this weekend before episode three, which because it's on Sunday night, we will not watch it.
Marc:So, uh, you know, we will, we will get caught up in a weekend, but I do love having a show that is week to week.
Marc:Someone wrote into us saying, are we going to talk about the white Lotus?
Marc:I will absolutely talk about it, but maybe when it's done, like, I don't like, uh,
Marc:You know, people are like me.
Marc:People watch, you know, at their leisure and time frame.
Marc:So I don't want to like, you know, make this a spoiler podcast about a currently running show.
Marc:But but yeah, we can talk about it when it's when it's wrapped up.
Marc:I very much enjoy that show.
Marc:It's my it's actually my like preferred way for a show to be made.
Marc:I like anthology shows.
Marc:I like shows that wrap up within 10 episodes or so.
Marc:I like an idea that you can follow through to a logical conclusion and
Marc:And I don't like, you know, playing out the string and spinning your wheels and, you know, trying to refill a limited idea with way too many episodes, which is what way, way, way too much TV is now, especially with streaming.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I actually first learned about Mike White from Survivor.
Guest:He was a...
Guest:a contestant on survivor.
Guest:So that was my first entryway into him.
Guest:And I did watch in enlightened.
Guest:I didn't love enlightened, but I, you know, watched, uh, the white Lotus because, oh, look, the guy from survivor made this.
Guest:So I'm, I'm going to check it out.
Guest:And, uh, yeah, I was hooked.
Marc:You you full Marin listeners have access to this because it's in the it's in the paywall of WTF episodes way back in 2013 episode 364.
Marc:That's the episode with Mike White.
Marc:And even at that time, it was it was like, oh, that's one of our best ones.
Marc:Oh, no kidding.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:That's a great episode and a great look at the creative process of this guy and of the type of things he makes and what he's interested in.
Marc:It actually, you can listen to that and you're like, oh, I know why that guy makes the White Lotus.
Marc:Like he is true to himself.
Marc:Like he, there's nothing about him that is manufactured.
Marc:Like the way that he thinks is, you know, the type of stuff he creates.
Marc:So yeah, that's it.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:That's a, that's a great episode.
Marc:Um, I, I, yeah, I remember watching his early movies, uh, that he wrote Chuck and Buck and, uh, the good girl.
Marc:And it was very clear that this was going to be a guy who we would be hearing from.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's basically like, uh, the David Chase of, uh, HBO, you know, like, just like the, here's, here's the guy, let's just let him do his thing.
Guest:Uh, and, uh, yeah, we, you know, year after year, season after season, he, he
Guest:continues to have an all-star cast he's very good at casting i don't know if he casted himself but uh whoever he has doing it it is always a phenomenal job like parker posey this season just i enjoy every line that she delivers it's it's really great
Marc:Well, Carrie Coon did say he is good at casting.
Marc:And like, you know, obviously there's a casting director and they, you know, they're like part of the like unsung heroes of all creative arts.
Marc:Like the casting directors are like responsible for more than half of what you love about your favorite shows and movies.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:obviously there are plenty of things where the creator has a big hand in it.
Marc:And, uh, you know, she said, she, she attributed to him.
Marc:She said, he's so good at casting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So yeah.
Guest:Fantastic.
Guest:Fantastic guy.
Guest:And he still, I believe Jeff Probst from survivor still asks him questions.
Guest:Like, like they, uh,
Guest:You know, they don't do a certain like challenge because Mike White was like, yeah, don't do that anymore.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So he's like still in the ether there.
Guest:He's a fan just like everyone else.
Guest:He just happens to have been on the show.
Marc:You and Mike White are like our go-to Survivor consultants.
Guest:Yeah, anytime.
Guest:Anytime you guys need it.
Guest:My wife and I make pizza and watch Survivor.
Guest:It's quite fun.
Marc:Uh, well, yeah, so that was, uh, that, that was, uh, the Carrie Coon episode.
Marc:I'm not sure if you got around to listening to Mark and Chris Hayes from.
Marc:I sure did.
Guest:You, you, you, you squeeze a lot in on these recording days.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I mean, I, I, I had to do work and everything, but yeah, I watched, uh, I listened to your episode with your two jefes.
Guest:How did that?
Guest:That's basically like, welcome to my world.
Marc:Like that conversation is like, I, is two sides of a conversation I have on the regular.
Marc:like just ongoing all the time that that's what's in brendan's ears all the time so how did it feel having that happen all the same time oh it was i mean it's like you know here i'll put it put it this way to you how does it feel for you when you have like two friends who you know will get along and you let them talk to each other and you're like that went great the best yeah yeah yeah that's
Guest:the best yeah and great they talked about some great stuff uh you know talking about that uh that uh drain uh for so long but i feel like they got some mark really got him with that about he's like you know about how the algorithm works and he's like and then all of a sudden you're watching pipe shitting
Guest:I love these like, no, because you haven't gotten there yet because my algorithm, it'll, it'll get there.
Guest:You just have to keep watching.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was definitely my favorite part of the conversation because it was all stuff that I'm like, yeah, why, why do I get horse moving video?
Guest:It's like, wait, wait, wait, why do I get like someone taking out blackheads from their nose?
Guest:Like, is that like, like I, I have never ever thought of that, but apparently it's out there.
Marc:Mark said it in the intro.
Marc:It wasn't even when he was talking to Chris about those horse videos and how he's like, now I could be like an expert on that now.
Guest:Like if I saw.
Guest:Except for when they put the shoe on.
Guest:I didn't watch that part yet.
Guest:Oh,
Marc:uh all right well we've uh we've we've come up to the point in the show where we do every year we have uh looked at the oscars through the lens of what we would like to have happen at the oscars and i think you know to be a little bit uh different than mark was uh in his tuesday episode where he did his picks i think you know we did this last year chris where we said
Marc:if we were able to have like a wave of magic wand and get someone nominated, even get some recognition that we think is deserving that just got completely overlooked.
Marc:I'm not talking about snubs, right?
Marc:I'm not talking about like, Oh, this person was in the conversation and they didn't make it.
Marc:I'm talking about like, this never came up.
Marc:And I I'm wondering if you have any this year, I will say this.
Marc:I don't think I was wrong.
Marc:when these Oscars were announced and I said, it was kind of boring.
Marc:And I qualified that in an episode later saying, well, it's, it was boring because like, we already like kind of knew everything that was going to get nominated.
Marc:They didn't do anything inventive.
Marc:They didn't get anything that was surprising, right?
Marc:Looking at the list of films of 2024 is,
Marc:it was a bad year.
Marc:There's just no way around it.
Marc:It was a bad year.
Marc:And I think the strike probably had a lot to do with it.
Marc:There were, you know, stuff didn't get made, stuff didn't come out, but like, it was just very thin and the level of quality of, I'm just, I'm not used to looking at the whole list of films of the year and being like, oh yeah, man, like I don't, I don't have a ton of movies of this that I really loved.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was, it was a limiting year, but that doesn't mean it was
Guest:you know, there weren't good movies.
Guest:No, of course not.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:There were a limited amount of them.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I think that's also partially because of like these new distribution models.
Marc:It's like, there's just fewer opportunities to put things out there in a big way as a theatrical releases and things get made for streaming now, which gets less attention.
Marc:And like, like, you know, that movie, the gorge is like available, right?
Marc:Like we talked about this movie when it was, there was a trailer for it, you and I and our friends.
Marc:And we were like, wow, that looks great.
Marc:crazy and ridiculous and it's like it's like this rom-com but also a spy movie but also ghostbusters yeah right king kong godzilla like it's this weird looking movie and you'd expect people to know about it i know and no one knows it's it's you can watch it right this second and
Marc:And no one knows.
Marc:And that is most things now.
Marc:And I think it's reflected in like how I react to looking at these movies on these lists.
Guest:Yeah, 100%.
Guest:And, you know, recently in the news, the AMC president, AMC, the movie theater chain, was pleading with movie studios to be like, hey, the two weeks or 17 days or the 30-day windows, not working for movies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Go back to 60-day windows.
Guest:So give people a chance to see movies and not have it immediately on streaming.
Marc:Yeah, you went to the theater to see the Brazilian film.
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Guest:Because it wasn't available at home.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And yeah, I was rewarded for that.
Guest:And I just think...
Guest:Movies need to go back to that time where you just have a window to watch it in the theater and you don't have to rush because – look, I went on vacation once and there was like a week where I was like, oh, wow, I didn't see that movie that I really wanted to see until it got onto streaming because I was away that weekend.
Guest:And then when I came back –
Guest:it just didn't catch up to it you know so it's it's a it's a flawed system and i i really and how about like juror number two came out and it was scarcely yeah they didn't even put it in theaters really they gave you like like a token run for a week in like 12 theaters
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had to, I had to seek it out on a Wednesday somewhere and like, I had to drive like, like a half an hour to find my, you know, a theater that was showing it.
Guest:It's, it's preposterous.
Guest:And I, yeah.
Guest:And I think that's the problem, you know, and I hope it gets fixed in 2025.
Guest:I doubt it will, but there are a lot of like heavy hitters that are going to be making movies this year or, or, or releasing movies this year.
Guest:And I really hope, you know, that they have a 60 day window at least to present the
Guest:movies.
Marc:Well, what were the, some of the things from 2024 that if you were in charge of magic choice to be able to like bestow upon something, an Oscar nomination, uh, what would you give them to?
Guest:Oh man, there's so many, honestly.
Guest:Um, so where do you want to start?
Guest:I struggled.
Guest:I struggled to come up with ones.
Guest:Let's go with the best picture.
Guest:How about challengers?
Guest:Oh yes.
Guest:Well, I know you, you, you'd give this across the board for challengers.
Guest:Challengers, I don't understand how it was missed.
Guest:And I honestly think it's just people's PR machines where they have a four-year consideration thing.
Guest:They are just ineffective because challengers should have been in every category.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And when it came out in March, too, I think that's also probably part of the problem.
Guest:It's too far away.
Guest:But then, look, I hate the whole Oscar season thing.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:I just fucking hate it.
Guest:Like, let a movie come out in July that is also an Oscar movie.
Guest:And let a movie come out in March.
Guest:It's not, you know, I get it February and January.
Guest:It's like the dead time.
Guest:But have a movie that is high quality.
Marc:have it come out in march and let it be an oscar-nominated movie like i don't get it i bet you that the the flaw for challengers was um oscar voters saw it as a young person's thing like like that it was probably something like euphoria right like oh there's zendaya from euphoria like no no thanks
Marc:Right.
Guest:In like a sex, you know, sexy situation.
Guest:Some sex intrigue movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But no, it is, for me, the best movie that I watched this year.
Guest:I was captivated by it.
Guest:That was great.
Guest:That got completely omitted, which is a travesty.
Guest:But another one that I think was really good, Civil War came out this year.
Guest:The guy who-
Guest:You made Exmachnia, which I don't know if I'm still saying that right or wrong.
Guest:Oh, wrong.
Guest:But I just let you know it.
Guest:I loved that in the bonus episode where Mark was like, what, you're asking me how to pronounce that name?
Guest:You're the guy I go to to pronounce things.
Guest:But Civil War, beautiful movie about photojournalism.
Guest:And it was completely shunned by the industry.
Marc:I think people got that movie wrong.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I think people wanted it to be a political statement.
Marc:And I mean, look, it has to be in a way that...
Marc:But it is not about the it is not the political statement they wanted it to be where they wanted it to be about like what a civil war between MAGA and non MAGA would be.
Marc:And it's like, no, no, this is just about war.
Marc:And it's using it from this vantage point.
Marc:And really, it's a movie about journalism and journalism.
Marc:and and what it means to portray the truth and and also how shitty this will go if and when it happens like there's no way around it it's like don't like basically i took that movie to be like a thing of like hey don't let this happen where you live doesn't matter if you're in america or wherever it's like don't let these things happen and don't treat them bloodlessly when they do they're they're going to be terrible
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I also saw it as a really existential movie where, you know, you have this lead who, Kirsten Dunst, amazing performance in this movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's always amazing.
Guest:Oh, she really is.
Guest:But this movie, you see this person who's so beaten down by the process, by the war, and it's just like, what is what I'm doing?
Guest:Is it worth it?
Guest:Like, because if I don't do this, is it, you know, like, no one's...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just found it to be such a beautiful portrayal of this photojournalist.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:I just found it really moving.
Guest:And people just sort of shrugged about it.
Guest:And you're right.
Guest:They got it wrong.
Guest:They wanted it to be about Donald Trump.
Guest:And it's just not about that.
Marc:Right.
Guest:To me, to its credit.
Guest:Like, I didn't want to watch that movie about the Donald Trump Civil War.
Guest:No.
Guest:And like, look, this movie is like Apocalypse Now, but it just happens to take place in the United States and not, you know, in Vietnam.
Guest:So, yeah, Civil War is a movie that I would have gave recognition to.
Guest:Another one, Hitman.
Marc:Hitman is on my list.
Marc:I feel like that is a misbegotten best adapted screenplay nomination.
Marc:Like, that's a great script.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a nimble, inventive script that goes places you don't expect it to go.
Marc:Isn't that what we want out of movies?
Marc:We want them to do things that we don't expect.
Marc:This was like...
Marc:looked like full on rom-com formula.
Marc:And then it goes in very interesting ways and still stays true to being a rom-com and a, a romance.
Marc:So, you know, you don't have to call it a rom-com.
Marc:It's just like, this is a story about ultimately about the romance of two people.
Marc:And it's, but it's done in a very clever way.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Richard Linklater and Glenn Powell wrote the screenplay for that.
Marc:And I think it was overlooked.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And honestly, it was on Netflix.
Guest:So it's one of those things where like, I don't know, it's, it's, it's one of the tiles that I scroll past.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If that had gotten more care, I think more people would have paid attention to maybe even like with acting nominations.
Guest:Oh, 100%.
Guest:They were, the, both the leads were amazing.
Guest:The supporting cast was great.
Guest:Like, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't wait.
Guest:Isn't next year that they're, the Oscars going to have best ensemble cast?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I don't remember when they were talking about doing that, but yeah.
Guest:I can't wait for that because that's a fun category.
Guest:But yeah, that movie had just sung to me.
Guest:It was really great.
Guest:Another movie was also on Netflix, got overlooked.
Guest:Basically, it was just like not even thought of.
Guest:Rebel Ridge, our buddy Matt Singer sent me this.
Guest:And I got to say, I was not expecting it and it was awesome.
Guest:It
Marc:So this is like First Blood, but with a, what, a Gulf War vet or Afghanistan War vet?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And it is phenomenal.
Guest:You think it's just First Blood, but it actually is.
Guest:It does these little things that make it so great.
Guest:And you know who ties it all together?
Guest:Oh, I think I do.
Guest:Future guest of this show, Don Johnson.
Guest:He is tremendous in this.
Guest:Did Mark get to watch Rebel Ridge before talking to him?
Marc:No, I don't think he did.
Marc:And I'm not sure they talked about it.
Marc:But, well, you will find out soon because that episode comes up on Monday.
Marc:But, yeah, I have not watched Rebel Ridge yet.
Marc:It's part of the problem of things not being kind of urgent when they go up on Netflix.
Marc:But I do think one of the things that comes up with you saying this movie is overlooked is that
Marc:The Oscars always has done this where they overlook genre filmmaking.
Marc:And this is like, you know, falls into the category of like a straight up actioner.
Marc:This is an action movie.
Marc:It's a shoot them up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And like those movies can be good, too, and can be award worthy and can be thoughtful.
Marc:And they never get that kind of recognition.
Marc:I was thinking about that with.
Marc:With acting from a couple of movies this year, particularly horror movies, I think a missing best actor nominee is Hugh Grant for Heretic.
Marc:Dude, you watch that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Wasn't it great?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He floored me.
Guest:He was the best in that movie.
Marc:And I think people probably think it was, A, it's like, oh, it's a cheap horror movie.
Marc:And B, they probably think it's easy what he did.
Marc:It is not easy.
Guest:No, it's basically a play.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's, he's amazing in it.
Guest:He dances to the point where like three fourths of the way in, you're like, I don't know.
Guest:It could go either way.
Guest:What this guy, who this guy is.
Marc:That's a smart movie, dude.
Marc:That is a smart movie.
Marc:And I, more people should watch it.
Marc:I,
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm not a good barometer for this.
Marc:People ask me about certain movies that go, oh, but I don't like scary movies.
Marc:Is it scary?
Marc:To me, I'm like, that's not scary at all.
Marc:There's nothing scary about it.
Marc:Yeah, it's just that it's a thriller.
Marc:But maybe I'm totally off the mark on that.
Guest:But it's a talkie thriller.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's like – It's a debate.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's a debate movie.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:The Star Wars reference, by the way.
Guest:Having Hugh Grant talk about the prequels –
Guest:It's kind of was a highlight of mine in the theater.
Guest:I was like lapping it up, man.
Guest:It was awesome.
Marc:He's aged into himself quite nicely.
Marc:Like, I really like seeing him in things, you know, even when it's like a Paddington 2.
Marc:He's great in that.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:you know, where he can kind of play off of his persona that's been long established as the, you know, the cad.
Marc:I think he's, like, I will seek out a Hugh Grant movie now because I'm like, oh, he's always going to deliver at this point.
Marc:Another person that I think deserves some recognition, maybe...
Marc:it's harder because I don't think it's as good a movie as heretic.
Marc:And it's a little off-putting.
Marc:It's not like, it's not something everyone would sit down and watch, but the actress, Micah Monroe from long legs, that's a movie where like, again, I'm a bad barometer for this, but people, I think people stay away from it.
Marc:Cause they're like, Oh, it's so scary.
Marc:That's going to be the scariest thing ever.
Marc:Like I watched that movie.
Marc:I'm like, wait a minute.
Marc:Was there a scary part in this?
Marc:I didn't see one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I liked it.
Marc:I liked it about the atmosphere that it created, but it was like, you know, if you find it scary that Nicolas Cage has prosthetic makeup on, then maybe it's terrifying to you.
Marc:But I've seen Nicolas Cage in all ways, shapes and forms, and he's always fun to me.
Marc:Like, it's not scary.
Marc:But I think that he and the promotion around him and everything kind of devoured that that's a great...
Marc:uh performance by that actress uh you know it's like silence of the lambs you know type of performance from her and it's like right and so if jodie foster can get honored for that like she could absolutely get honored for this but i do want to say that made me think of something when i was looking at these lists of movies that came out this year
Marc:For a long time, the complaint has been like, you know, the Oscars are not diverse enough and they need to get better at, you know, acknowledging the representation of all people, not just like, you know, five white people every year.
Marc:Fully on board with that.
Marc:But you know what's something they still that the Hollywood in general has not gotten much better at, despite claiming that it has great roles for women.
Marc:like it's, it's like, it was just so noticeable to me looking at this list of movies that came out that like the amount of movies you could go through and be like, that film has a super strong lead performance by a woman.
Marc:It's like, you could count it on two hands and like, it's indicative in the nominees, even like the two that are being talked about the most, which is Mikey Madsen from a Nora and Demi Moore from the substance.
Marc:Those are two movies with a female lead.
Marc:And,
Marc:And a female lead with a great character so that the actor in it can sink into the performance.
Marc:The other two that have nominations are foreign films.
Marc:And then the last one is someone from a musical that's a 20-year existing piece of IP, a 100-year existing piece of IP if you consider The Wizard of Oz.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's like...
Marc:where are all these original movies for for women it's like the the hollywood is so averse to it from the from i think you know it's not just a chauvinistic perspective it's like their dumb bottom line shit and it's like i don't know man if you build it they will come anora if anora wins best picture which very well may that's a movie with a female it's a female driven film like do more of those
Marc:you get more Oscars, whatever.
Marc:Like it's just such a, it's like a thing they pay lip service to every once in a while.
Marc:And then all of a sudden it's just gone.
Marc:And I'm looking at this list of things, even the brutalist.
Marc:It's like the character who's the most short shafted in that is, is Felicity Jones's character.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's like, there's, there's, it's an underdrawn character and she does a great job with it, but that's why she lands in a supporting category here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But yeah, also Toni Collette in Juror No.
Guest:2, she carries that movie.
Guest:It's basically on her shoulders, her and Nicholas Holtz.
Guest:She is fantastic.
Guest:And yeah, there's just not enough movies with female leading roles, and that really needs to change.
Marc:Well, why don't we wrap up here with something I was wondering, and I'm springing this on you, so I'll give you a second to think about it.
Marc:What is something from this Sunday's actual nominated movies that you are rooting for?
Marc:So like, for instance, so like something that is nominated and you really want it to happen.
Marc:And I will tell you what it is for me.
Marc:it is daniel bloomberg for best original score of the brutalist because honestly so many of the other categories like i looked at the list and i'm like yeah i'd be fine with you know half of these winning and they deserve well deserved or whatever like i i i couldn't nothing jumped out at me where i'm like that's the best
Marc:Other than that one.
Marc:And it's like, it's the same thing from last year with Ludwig Göransson, the composer of the Oppenheimer score, where it's like, this movie would be... It's three and a half hours.
Marc:And I think you said this about Oppenheimer.
Marc:It's like, the score is the wind in its sails.
Marc:And it's like, without it, it would be a bit of a struggle bus.
Marc:Because you really need...
Marc:propulsive motifs to get you like to keep you involved in this world and otherwise it's a it's it's a it's a harder lift and like i was saying it to mark about these long movies and how you cannot rely on just like good acting good acting cannot carry the day it has to be the whole package the director and the filmmakers plural need to be really assured with how they're going to present you this thing so you can ride for the full three and a half hours
Marc:And without this score, man, I don't think the movie gets over the hump.
Guest:Yeah, you're right.
Guest:I agree.
Guest:Something I'm rooting for is Jeremy Strong in The Apprentice.
Guest:Oh, how about that?
Guest:Because that movie, I went into it.
Guest:First of all, I saw it before the election, which was the right thing to do.
Guest:I cannot imagine having to sit down and watch it now.
Guest:That just seems like not something I want to do.
Guest:But Jeremy Strong.
Guest:He transforms into Roy Cohn.
Guest:And Mark says it as well.
Guest:But like the movie doesn't work if Jeremy Strong's performance isn't at the level that it is.
Guest:And he is transformed as that.
Guest:And look, you know, Kieran Culkin is great.
Guest:And I understand he's probably going to win this.
Guest:I just feel like for a guy who's been on a show that we've all been watching for the last five years, it was like, okay, you know, I get it.
Guest:He's still acting, you know, he's not like this person, you know, either, you know, his character from succession or a real pain, but it's a very familiar character.
Guest:performance jeremy strong is performing a character which i haven't seen on you know anyone do and his you can feel his heartbreak in that role and you can feel him dying like it is such a beautifully like crafted performance and
Marc:And to do that for a guy, a real life human being who we know is a total monster and, you know, has been depicted in other things too, right?
Marc:Like this is a central role in Angels in America is Roy Cohn.
Marc:And, you know, we know him and to do it in a unique way that like Mark said, it's like, I hated him for making me feel that that guy was human.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Guest:And one other one is Ray Fiennes in Conclave.
Guest:I want my guy to win.
Guest:By the way, is his name Ray Fiennes or is it Ralph Fiennes?
Guest:It is not Ralph and it is not Ray.
Guest:It is Rafe.
Guest:rafe yes okay yeah because it spells out ralph it sure does yeah by the way welcome to 30 years ago like this this happened this happened with schindler's list this happened with the english patient like this is this is not news i was a teenager i didn't know this like but anyway rafe fines dude my man conclave he
Guest:He is this movie, man.
Guest:I will go to bat to this movie.
Guest:I've watched it twice now.
Marc:I'll tell you what.
Marc:I keep looking at it.
Marc:I always look at the odds, Vegas odds on stuff.
Marc:It's creeping up there, man.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:I think we might have a surprise on Sunday.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Imagine if there's a conclave happening during the Oscars.
Guest:One by one, all these movies getting knocked out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, you mean like a real conclave?
Guest:No, no, like a real, yes, a people conclave.
Yeah.
Guest:It could happen.
Guest:I am so in it for Conclave.
Guest:I love this movie.
Marc:Look, here's what I would say.
Marc:When I walked out of Conclave, I thought to myself, that was very entertaining and fun, but tremendously stupid.
Marc:And I couldn't believe it was being thought of as a prestige Oscar movie.
Marc:And at this point, sure, win.
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:Like...
Guest:like i'm thinking about it's like they gave an oscar to green book exactly like the conclave sure like at least it's fun it is so fun it is such a fun movie a movie that my wife every time i said hey we should be watching this she's like really like we this doesn't look fun oh it is very fun
Marc:I did want to mention one thing before we go.
Marc:I've gotten a lot of responses about the one-and-done films, and I want those to keep coming.
Marc:If you remember last week, I brought up that there are some movies that you watch once and you're like,
Marc:I don't want to watch that again.
Marc:Cause I think I'll ruin my experience.
Marc:Like this came up with a panic room and the game and people have a lot of opinions on this and are sending us good ones.
Marc:And I think we can do this next week.
Marc:So keep them coming, go to the link in the episode description and send us your thoughts.
Marc:And I will say I I'm willing to take two interpretations of this one and done films because some people are interpreting it to mean like movies that they saw once that they liked, but the, but it was too complicated.
Marc:Either disturbing or difficult to get through or just like a hard sit.
Marc:So like they're like, I like that movie a lot.
Marc:I even love it, but I don't ever want to watch it again.
Marc:And I think that's a valid one and done.
Marc:But I think also...
Marc:Send us your ideas of movies that like totally worked for you, but you are worried that if you ever watch it again, they would not.
Marc:And so you keep it aside.
Marc:You put it in that little box and you don't look at it.
Marc:I think that's a great conversation that we can have next week on the show.
Marc:And we will go over the Oscars.
Marc:And I will also be talking to someone.
Marc:that you do not know, Chris.
Marc:You do not know this.
Marc:I got a response about something that was said on the program last week, and I have a guest coming on next week who wants to get to the bottom of it.
Marc:He has a totally opposite opinion, and I said, hey, come on and air it out here on the show.
Marc:So that's a little tease for next week, and we will also obviously have the Don Johnson WTF episode to talk about.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:A lot of good stuff.
Marc:The link for comments is in the episode description.
Marc:Just go to that right now and send us your thoughts.
Marc:And until then, I'm Brendan, and that's Chris.
Peace!
you