BONUS The Friday Show - White Lotus All-Stars
Guest:dad's on the show their balls come out all the time i i feel like hbo like is is making up for past uh exploits of women and it's just like let's see your balls dick over there yeah
Guest:hey chris hello brendan how's it going how was your trip trip was amazing yeah how how fast was it you you were in and out yeah yeah i was there what is it friday my flight was delayed so i got into houston basically when uh the first game um started so i was a little late for that game
Marc:This was Mets-Astros.
Marc:It was like the second game of the season, right?
Guest:That's right.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I missed Juan Soto's first home run with the team, but that's okay.
Guest:I heard it in the cab.
Guest:So that was okay.
Guest:Yeah, it was kind of a stressful time because, you know, it's like three-hour delay.
Guest:But what was nice was I didn't have anyone else to, you know, sort of think about.
Guest:It was just me on this trip.
Guest:So it was like, okay, if it's delayed, it's delayed.
Guest:But like...
Guest:It did get me thinking, like, towards, like, the second hour of my flight being delayed.
Guest:Like, well, what's going on here?
Guest:And, like, United updated me with, like, a text message saying, hey, so there's a problem with your plane.
Guest:The overhead luggage is, you know, we're having a problem with it.
Guest:I was just like, all right, well, that doesn't sound great.
Guest:The overhead luggage?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Apparently, like, you know, something's wrong with, like, I guess it doesn't fully lock in or something.
Guest:For all of them?
Guest:For all the compartments?
Guest:Probably just, like, one or two.
Guest:And, like, they didn't want to put duct tape on it.
Guest:So, like, so, yeah.
Guest:So I, like, chose to, like, rebook myself on a flight that took off basically 10 minutes after my original flight was going to.
Guest:The delayed flight was going to take off.
Guest:So I just was like, look, I don't want to chance it with this weird plane.
Guest:Who knows what else is going to fall off of it?
Guest:So yeah, I rebooked myself on a new flight, and it was fine.
Guest:I got there, and it was fine.
Guest:I had a nice check-in at my hotel.
Guest:Got takeout food from Aga's, which was one of the places that was mentioned with Mark and Mo when they were talking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh, that food was delicious.
Guest:Had it after the game.
Guest:And, uh, yeah, I got to see the game, got the worst seats in the house, which was, uh, which was the plan.
Guest:And, uh.
Guest:And then you just never sat in them?
Guest:Nah, I, I wormed, wormed my way down to the very, very, uh, you know, uh, field level seats, which is just, uh, goes to show you a confident wave and a smile goes a long way.
Guest:Those ushers, uh, won't even question anything.
Guest:So yeah.
Marc:Oh, I bet it's a lot different in Houston, too, than it is in New York.
Marc:I mean, there's somewhat of sticklers in the New York parks now.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I bet in Houston they're a little friendlier.
Guest:And I was planning to bribe them with a 20.
Guest:Like, I was planning on it, but didn't come to that, which was nice.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I got to say, the fans in Houston were nice, if not a little shell-shocked to see New York fans.
Guest:Like, I interacted with a few of them, and they were like...
Guest:First of all, they took a couple of innings to ask me a question.
Guest:And I was very nice and answered.
Guest:But they were just like, so, wow, you came from New York to here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, yeah, you know, just wanted to check it out.
Guest:I've heard Houston's a great town.
Guest:And they're just like, wow, man, like, what's it like living in New York with all those people?
Guest:And I was like, just like anywhere else.
Guest:You just, you know, interact with people.
Guest:You go about your day.
Guest:There just happens to be millions of people around and everything's fine.
Guest:And they're just like, wow, man, like, what do you do for a living?
Guest:And I was like, I don't.
Guest:I work in, you know, a technology company, pretty, pretty normal, you know, life.
Guest:And then they're like, wow.
Guest:And like, you just like, you're just there in the city.
Guest:I'm just like, yeah, man.
Guest:Like, as if like, this is a brand new occurrence that they are meeting a, a northerner.
Guest:And, but yeah, they were, they were, they were asking like, well, how much is it to like have a two bedroom, like apartment?
Guest:I was like, it's about like $3,000 in like Brooklyn.
Guest:They're like, oh my God.
Guest:god really three thousand it's like eighteen hundred here man and like some lady who's not even part of the conversation like she taps me on the shoulder's like man you you move here you can have a whole house with a pool for three thousand dollars and like it was it was really fun and they're like man you wouldn't trade it in for the world right man and i'm like
Guest:No, I traded for a pool.
Guest:I probably traded for a pool.
Guest:Like, you know, like I like it here, but I don't love, you know, having a cramped space.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah.
Guest:So yeah, everyone was nice, which was great.
Guest:And I got to go to the Rothko Chapel.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:How was that?
Guest:Dude, let me tell you something.
Guest:So what do you think of a chapel?
Guest:You think of a steeple and everything?
Guest:Yeah, a little church.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, this was just like a brick building, right?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Very unassuming building, all right?
Guest:There's signage and stuff, but like it's a very unassuming building.
Guest:And you walk through these double doors and it's dark and there's like an attendant there welcoming you, telling you to put your water on the bench to not go into the chapel with it.
Guest:I go into this chapel, dude, and it's like an octagon, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there are eight walls.
Guest:And on seven of those walls, there's these black, big black, not structures, but I guess paintings.
Guest:But like, you know, they're all black.
Yeah.
Guest:And at first, and there's no one else there, by the way, no one else.
Guest:And there's all these like benches there.
Guest:And at first I'm just like, what happened?
Guest:Did they take away the paintings?
Guest:And it's just these black like things where the painting should be.
Guest:And like, it's just me and three security guards.
Guest:And now, you know, there's no one else here.
Guest:So they're just staring at me, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like, I kind of wanted to be like, is this a bit like, like, like what happened to the paintings?
Guest:Are they, are they going to be okay?
Guest:And like, I, I, I was like, you know what?
Guest:I'm just going to sit down and act as if this is totally normal.
Guest:And I guess I sat down, stared at this black void of a painting for like five minutes and
Guest:And I gotta say,
Marc:I felt something.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:How can you not actually?
Marc:It's, it's just like being in a, in a isolation booth.
Guest:Yes, it really was.
Guest:And like, you know, for, for a couple of minutes there, I was like kind of side-eyeing the security guards because there's, there's one at each end.
Guest:So like they're in the peripheral of your vision and like occasionally they'll stand up and they kind of stand up in unison and then like, and then they sit down.
Guest:And so,
Guest:It was a little distracting, but I got to say that this big, huge black paintings, I started seeing some things.
Guest:I'm seeing where the painter like was painting with the brush and it was beautiful.
Guest:And I got somewhere and I was there for like 45 minutes.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:It really planted you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, like someone came in at some point and like they were doing the same thing.
Guest:And it was nice, man.
Guest:It was really nice.
Guest:And I got to really experience like, I don't know, I just went somewhere.
Guest:It really opened me up to some more art.
Guest:Which is what I did after that.
Guest:I left there and I walked to, like, they have a museum district.
Guest:So I went to the art museum, I think that Mark also went to.
Guest:It's kind of like set up like the Guggenheim, where you start at the very top and you work your way down through all the galleries.
Guest:And I gotta say...
Guest:I was moved by a whole bunch of art.
Guest:And like, they were like infinity rooms, which is like, I don't know if you've ever been in one, but like they close the door and it's all these mirrors.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And there's all this like, yeah.
Guest:And so like, they had a bunch of those and it was...
Guest:It was really great, man.
Guest:I felt moved by a whole bunch of art like I've never been moved by.
Guest:There was this Edward Hopper painting.
Guest:Oh, I like Edward Hopper.
Guest:Yeah, Moonlight Interior.
Guest:And I was just staring at this painting for like five minutes.
Guest:And it was great.
Marc:I knew you were going to be Cameron.
Yeah.
Marc:I knew it.
Guest:What?
Guest:A hundred percent, man.
Guest:It was, it was something.
Marc:You know, it's, it's interesting that you started out at the Rothko place, which is a legitimate chapel.
Marc:I mean, it's, it's a non-denominational church.
Marc:Like you're, you're, you know, encouraged to go there for worship purposes, but really when you think of it, it's no different than any art gallery, right?
Marc:It's just like an installation in a museum.
Marc:And that is why I love museums.
Marc:I do consider them spiritual.
Marc:Like I, you know, just even the ones I've been to dozens of times here in the city, I think it's spiritual to go to the Met.
Marc:Like I just do.
Marc:Part of it is that, you know, it's where I can actually feel connected to past museums.
Marc:people as opposed to like a church, which feels somewhat rooted in the present.
Marc:And what they're talking about in the past has, you know, a distinct whiff of mythology to me, right?
Marc:It doesn't seem real.
Marc:You go to a museum and you're like, oh shit, you know, like...
Marc:This is like, I'm, I'm, I'm connecting with the people who did this.
Marc:And that's crazy.
Marc:Like I can, I can, like what you're saying about seeing the breaststrokes, you go to, you would go to the MoMA and you look at those.
Marc:Um, what is it?
Marc:The, uh, the Matisse and you can get up pretty close to them behind the rope and you can like see the texture and the bumps and that, and like that trips me out, man.
Guest:Yeah, it's there.
Guest:You're seeing, like, it's like you're time traveling.
Guest:You're touching that artist.
Guest:Like, it is, it was really something to behold.
Guest:And, like, you know, I saw a Jackson Pollock painting.
Guest:And, like, I'm totally, like, my wife and I were celebrating our 10th anniversary this weekend.
Guest:I'm gonna go insist that we go to a museum.
Guest:And just, like...
Guest:you know, walk around and like see some art, man.
Guest:Cause it was, it was moving and it was, it was transfixing.
Guest:And, uh, and Mark's right.
Guest:There's a whole bunch of art in the entire city.
Guest:Like I walked around, dude, I walked, you know how many miles I walked?
Marc:Let's see.
Marc:Let's hear it.
Guest:13.1 miles.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:That is a half marathon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Which also goes to show that I was by myself because no other person would ever want to walk that many miles.
Marc:When we went to Disney World last year, it would be like eight and nine miles a day.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Just in the park.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's like, wow, you, you kind of just, uh, it kind of just happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You can do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like, but like around Houston, there's all these like sculptures and like, you know, wall art.
Guest:And like, it's funny, I remember boyhood, uh, the movie, the Richard Linklater movie.
Guest:And like, he filmed all throughout Houston.
Guest:And like, there are, there are like these scenes of the kids playing around all these sculptures.
Guest:And I was, I was walking through it.
Guest:So it was, it was really cool.
Guest:Like I really enjoyed, uh, Houston for the limited amount of time I was
Marc:And any other food?
Marc:Did you barbecue it or anything like that?
Guest:No, I went to just the Middle Eastern place, and I'll be honest with you, I had a whole bunch of leftovers, and that just tidied me over.
Guest:I did not do—oh, no, no, I'm sorry.
Guest:What am I talking about?
Guest:I went out of my way after the last Met game.
Guest:I went, I took a trolley because they have a trolley system that you apparently don't pay for, which I don't understand.
Guest:Anyway, what took that to the last stop?
Guest:And there was this, uh, this, uh, taco truck and that taco truck had to wait on a very long line.
Guest:I didn't quite understand what the line was all about.
Guest:But it took a very long time to get my food.
Guest:But when I got my food, it was the best Trumpo tacos I've had.
Guest:And Trumpo is pork.
Guest:And it was great.
Guest:I ordered in Spanish, which was very nice.
Guest:My Duolingo helped me out that time.
Guest:Oh, finally.
Guest:I mean, it's tres Trumpo taco por favor.
Marc:So it's not exactly the- I think I got that one in eighth grade and I never took Spanish.
Guest:fair i i feel like most of us who live especially if you live in new york like you pick up like travel spanish fine yeah you know like if i went to mexico i could order a hooker and a beer no problem for sure but uh but yeah the food was delicious and i had a little kitty cat walk up to me while i was eating i gave it some trumpo and uh went about my day and uh went back to my hotel and then
Guest:Woke up really early, got on my flight that was not delayed, and I was home to have coffee with my wife.
Guest:So it was a successful trip.
Marc:And how was Erin's White Lotus weekend?
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Erin's White Lotus weekend was actually perfect.
Marc:Where did they go?
Guest:They went to Aruba.
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:That is like a White Lotus weekend for real.
Guest:And they, they were like planning all this stuff.
Guest:They like brought groceries from the United States and like, oh, like my wife went, you know, she made granola and, uh, they, they had like a chef make them like food or dinner one day and like a grazing table.
Guest:And I was just like, all right, sounds, sounds like a perfect weekend for you all.
Guest:Like for me, it just sounds like a little much.
Guest:And they, they had like
Guest:five bottles of wine that were like not you know drunk so like they like gave it as like a tip to uh to the to the hotel or that's very nice the airbnb that they were staying at so did anyone viciously turn on anyone else sadly no okay sadly no well i mean i'm glad they didn't but uh but if they really wanted to have a white lotus weekend
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Sadly, it was not as eventful as I was hoping for, but it was a good, relaxing weekend, and everyone enjoyed it.
Guest:They went to Baby Beach, which was my personal favorite beach, and they all just were, what's the word, rejuvenated.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Good, good.
Marc:Well, that does not always happen on the White Lotus.
Marc:I think maybe, you know— Oh, you think so, doctor?
Yeah.
Marc:But like you get like I think of the people on the show, you get like 20 percent come away from it better.
Marc:Like like there's a small percentage of the cast that come away like with a little bit of like an awakening or like something positive in their lives.
Marc:Most people, it's way worse when they leave.
Guest:It's usually the kids, right?
Guest:The kids are like, hey, I'm staying here.
Marc:There's definitely that happens with kids or like someone who needs a little bit of clarity, right?
Marc:Like their life might not have fully improved, but they just needed some clarity around something.
Marc:But most people wind up leaving that show worse off.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:But, you know, it's kind of just like life.
Guest:There are lessons to be learned in the darkness that that happens.
Marc:For real.
Marc:Yes, definitely.
Marc:Well, you know what?
Marc:We will get back to the White Lotus in a second because, you know, someone asked us if we would like do a podcast on it or recap it.
Marc:And I don't think that's the right move, especially because, you know, we don't know who's listening to this, who has seen it.
Marc:And if you haven't seen it, I don't want to spoil things.
Marc:But I think it came up with a good way for us to talk about it.
Marc:So we'll do that in a few minutes.
Marc:I did want to check in with you about the week that was.
Marc:Anything jump out of you?
Guest:Dude, Delroy Lindo.
Guest:This was an interview where, you know, you probably don't know because you probably, you know, last time you went on a date was a very long time ago.
Guest:But I've been on first dates.
Guest:And first dates...
Guest:when, you know, there's the usual chit chat that happens, but then you get a first date.
Guest:And just like the first day with my wife, where you break through that chit chat and you get to some real shit.
Guest:And that's what Mark and Delroy got to.
Guest:And it was transformative.
Guest:Like what a, what a great chat that they had.
Guest:Like, like when, when,
Guest:You know, he was asking Mark about, you know, well, what's your story?
Guest:Like, why did you do this?
Guest:And, like, Mark was just opening up and just being brutally honest about it.
Guest:Like, you could really tell that he connected with him.
Guest:Like, did you feel that when you were editing it?
Marc:Oh, I mean, I did because and also got tipped to it from Mark ahead of time.
Marc:You know, he said, oh, this one really, you know, broke open.
Marc:And the reason why we wound up talking about it and that kind of came through was that in the research on this guy, like I found over and over and over again.
Marc:He would give interviews where he would deliberately withhold stuff about himself and his life and say that it was for an explicit reason.
Marc:Like the closest thing we had to somebody doing that on this show was John C. Reilly, who was a little kind of flippant about it.
Marc:He was almost like joking.
Marc:He was like, I like to keep my mystique.
Marc:But like...
Marc:there's a real application there to their acting.
Marc:And like, there's a quote here from Delroy Lindo that I saw and I had sent it to Mark.
Marc:I said like, you're going to have to be aware of this in terms of how far he's willing to go into things.
Marc:And he said, uh, this quote was in an interview he did a few years ago.
Marc:The work is to, on some level, expose a character in order that I share with the audience as fully as possible, uh,
Marc:I personally don't need to be known by folks.
Marc:I prefer not to be known.
Marc:So like, he doesn't want you to be watching him in a thing where he's, you know, generally a character actor.
Marc:So he's got to go from one thing to another and kind of, you know, inhabit different people.
Marc:Like he's a different guy from, you know, when he's like a mobster and a tough, tough guy versus when he's on a show like the good fight or something.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:he's thinking like I, what I need to do is communicate the character.
Marc:I don't need to be Delroy Lindo to those people.
Marc:You know, even though I am a person to them, they don't need to know stuff about me personally.
Marc:So I just thought like, okay, this is going to be a little like, you know, tricky.
Marc:Then I saw this other quote of him where,
Marc:where he said, I'm really possessive of my pain.
Marc:One, because I'm not in the business of discussing my pain, but two, my pain, my insecurity, my neurosis, all of that, I value because that's part of my toolbox.
Marc:So again, he's thinking of withholding information as part of what makes...
Marc:his job easier to do right as an actor.
Marc:But then also like from a personal standpoint, he's like, I don't want to have to talk about personal stuff in public.
Marc:That's not something I signed up for.
Marc:So like knowing all that and then having Mark tell me like, Oh, this got somewhere.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then listening to it, it's like, this is not, this was not a normal interview with this guy.
Marc:Like he, he felt comfortable to do this.
Marc:And it's, you know, again, we, it's,
Marc:wind up saying it all the time it's just like it's a it's a testament to mark's ability to do what he does it's a testament to how we've set this show up where people don't feel pressure where he you know walked into that house he saw a dude just living there by himself saw nobody else was like okay i feel comfortable with this you know saw the guy's guitars asked him about the music he plays like that stuff it all works to the advantage of giving a connected conversation that i think is like beyond just being interesting it's probably
Guest:helpful to people yeah 100 and like you can see the breadcrumbs that led uh delroy uh to to open up to mark it's like oh he likes blues oh he talked to obama in like oh this is audio only it's and like it's like all these barriers were sort of you know breaking down and like
Guest:Look, I don't know the man.
Guest:I love him from The Good Fight and from countless other movies.
Guest:I bet this is an interview that he can tell his son and his wife and friends to listen to this interview, and it's something that he's really proud of.
Marc:Yeah, I bet that's right.
Guest:Because like, it's probably like, how often do you get to talk about your life and your history, you know, like in, in such an open manner and it's recorded.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like it's, it's not every day that that can happen.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:He's going to write a book or he's written a book or we're in the process of writing a book and like, it'll be there.
Guest:But this was so organic and so it felt so beautiful.
Guest:Like I really enjoy this interview.
Marc:I think the writing of the book helped too, right?
Marc:That he's got stuff, he's tapped emotions and they're surface level for him.
Marc:And it's probably easier to access than it was five years ago when he's given an interview or something.
Marc:And he's like, oh, by the way, yeah, I don't talk about that stuff.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I also think it's just interesting that he went for a long period of his life without really fully knowing the details, you know, of his family life.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like it wasn't until he kind of researched this stuff that he learned like what his roots really were.
Marc:And it's like why he went back to school and got these degrees.
Marc:And like, to me, that's another thing.
Marc:It's like.
Marc:I think that was the big takeaway of that talk was it's like, this is a 72 year old guy.
Marc:He's talking to a 61 year old guy.
Marc:And both of them are like, Oh, I'm still trying to figure it out.
Marc:Like that's a, that's a pretty like bold thing for people to kind of at that age.
Marc:And especially men who have like, you know, kind of a masculine roadblocks of emotionality, uh, that they're okay with saying like, I'm still trying to figure it out, man.
Marc:Um,
Marc:I feel better about me, but I don't fully know who I am yet.
Guest:And hearing that from those two accomplished men makes me, you know, feel comfortable saying that to other people.
Guest:You know, it's just, it kind of, it's a ripple effect, you know?
Guest:And like, man, when he was saying like, well, dad wasn't around, you know?
Guest:And like...
Guest:Oh yeah, that was a big laugh.
Guest:Yeah, that was a really big laugh.
Guest:Man, if I was on the press tour for a movie, which by the way, I stopped the episode halfway through and I purchased a ticket to Sinners because I can't wait to see that.
Marc:Are you going to a big screen?
Guest:Yeah, I'm going to go to a big screen here in Jersey.
Guest:I've seen it in IMAX.
Marc:Mark saw it in the LIMAX, which is what you're going to see, right?
Marc:It's not the full giant one.
Marc:But Coogler was desperately trying to get Mark to go see it at the giant IMAX, and we just couldn't get the timing lined up.
Marc:So he relented, like, okay, yeah, fine, you can go see it at his local LIMAX.
Marc:But he was like, oh, no, no, no.
Marc:I want him to see it on the biggest screen possible.
Guest:See, that makes me kind of want to just go to the real IMAX and do that.
Guest:Maybe I'll do that.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's one of those things where you check the tickets on AMC, and it's like, ooh, there's still some middle seats available.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I hope it does well.
Guest:I really hope it's like a word of mouth thing.
Guest:But yeah, so I'm just saying if I'm on a press tour doing all these stops and I sit down and have this conversation, it must feel so rejuvenating.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:You know, like so I'm just I'm happy for him to have had this experience.
Marc:Yeah, we get that reaction all the time, man.
Marc:You know, people that get to the end of the talk and they're like, this was really fun.
Marc:They're so used to this like soulless, you know, regurgitation machines.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And man, when he was talking, you know, he was asking Mark, like, well, you know, what about you?
Guest:Like, how do you feel about like...
Guest:being out here in LA and not working.
Guest:And like, it's like, people don't really ask that sort of thing, or at least not on the first date sort of thing.
Guest:That's like a third date sort of question, you know?
Guest:So like, it was just, man, he was, he was feeling it.
Guest:And I felt it.
Guest:And I thought that was one of the better episodes of this show.
Guest:It's been really great.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:Good.
Marc:That's what we strive for.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you had this amazing episode talking about Andy Kaufman and you had Lynn Margulies on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And just perfection.
Guest:What a wonderfully edited bonus episode that was.
Guest:I don't know if everyone listening to this has checked it out, but you should totally check out that episode because that was amazing.
Marc:You know, it's so great about still, you know, 16 years into doing this.
Marc:Is that like, I decided to do that based on, you know, knowing what was coming up on Thursday.
Marc:I was like, all right, we could do good Andy Kaufman thing.
Marc:And I went and found all the interviews and, you know, found the time, you know, places where they talked about Andy.
Marc:And I kind of arranged it in a way where it kind of, like, I felt like that bonus episode, like,
Marc:you know, I was like, okay, good.
Marc:So we got the stuff with Zamuda right up front, but then there's plenty of other people who talk about Zamuda, right?
Marc:Like, like whether it's bullshit or whether, you know, like, you know, uh, he was kind of exaggerating and Andy was nice.
Marc:And then, you know, you had some people who were like, he was a dick, you know, and it Judd Hirsch was bothered by him.
Marc:So it was hitting on all the right points about this guy.
Marc:And then kind of culminating with the discussion that we had with, with box Brown about, uh,
Marc:Andy and his wrestling time, which I at the time felt like, oh, that's the piece everyone misses that like the wrestling is the key to this guy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And so then even before I did the Lynn Margulies episode, I like put that Andy thing together.
Marc:And then I like was just walking around and taking my walk.
Marc:And I was listening to the finished episode the next day.
Marc:And I'm like,
Marc:Oh, this is a good show.
Marc:Like for me, like as though I didn't edit it, right?
Marc:Like I was like, oh, I like this show this person put together about Andy Kaufman.
Marc:I'm learning a lot right now.
Marc:It's like, I fucking heard all this stuff before.
Marc:I edited the thing and I'm just...
Marc:taking it in and enjoying it like a, a separate piece of media.
Marc:And like that has happened so many times, like in doing this show, it's like one of the reasons why it's like still tolerable for me to do it.
Marc:Cause it's like, wow, I still like this as a product.
Marc:Like it's, it's what it's like, there's a separate guy inside of me who has no idea of how it got put together.
Marc:And it's just like, man, this is pretty good.
Marc:I like this show.
Yeah.
Guest:Your severed self who's just a listener.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I guess he just was asleep the whole time while I was doing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For a listener, it felt like it was like a river that unspools into the Gulf of Mexico.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just like it was beautifully well paced and everything.
Guest:It was wonderful.
Marc:And then I got to say, listening to the Lynn Margulies talk.
Marc:I don't think I'm an idiot, but I also don't think I'm any great genius or something.
Marc:Mark has called me that before.
Marc:My genius producer.
Marc:And I'm like, that's because I know how to hit a button that he doesn't know how to hit.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:There's no I don't take that stuff to heart.
Marc:And so I just, you know, go about my life thinking like, you know, I am who I am.
Marc:I'm not trying to compare myself to other people.
Marc:I'm not trying to put myself on some kind of level or whatever.
Marc:Listening to that talk with her, I was like a moment where I was able to step back and give myself a little credit for for having some brains.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because I'm listening to this, and that clip that I put in the bonus episode of you and I talking to Box Brown was from almost two years ago now.
Marc:And in that clip, I was like, I have never been satisfied with whatever anybody has concluded about Andy Kaufman.
Marc:I feel like all the books are lacking, and the movie was lacking, and nobody really gets to the core of this guy.
Marc:And it wasn't until I really read this book that I realized the key to this guy is wrestling.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that was my thesis on this.
Marc:And like, I was fully on it with box Brown two years ago.
Marc:And then this woman who is the keeper of his legacy was like the key to this guy is wrestling.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:He fucking loved wrestling.
Marc:And you know what?
Marc:Beyond just feeling like satisfied that I drew the right conclusion.
Marc:I also was like, Oh, well this is why I've always had a connection with this guy.
Marc:Like, you know, as I talked about when we did that episode, uh, uh, with box Brown, like I was always fascinated by the guy.
Marc:And I was always, I always found the information I got about him lacking.
Marc:And I realized when she was talking about how he gravitated toward wrestling and how he, like Mark couldn't understand it, that he was like, but he, he liked it as the, like the put on of, and she was like, no, he loved it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, I,
Marc:Like it was one of those things where I'm like, I hear the language you're speaking.
Marc:Like it was like, like Klingon versus like Vulcan were being spoken in those moments.
Marc:Like no one, two aliens.
Marc:They didn't understand the language.
Marc:And I was like, I understand your language.
Marc:I speak this.
Marc:And like, I fully get like, it made me feel like very like full of life that I was like, yeah, this was a, it's a real thing that generated creativity for me and for him and
Marc:for our entire lives like it's not a frivolous thing like i i it's just be the same as somebody who's like whole life they've loved comic books right and they like can quote you chapter and verse and we know people like that i mean like you like comics but we know people who like are have been like
Marc:comic book guys remember jonathan larson he had like a whole room of his house that was just stacked of comics and everything and like he could just formulate entire theses around what he'd learned from comics and like i feel the same way about wrestling and i don't feel that that's anything detrimental to my life it wasn't like i i was living in a delusion or something i just zeroed in on it as a medium that
Marc:Spoke to me as an artistic medium like, hey, you could do a lot of shit in this and express a lot of emotion and work through things from this weird carnival form of entertainment.
Marc:And this dude thought the exact same thing and is one of the most beloved comedians of all time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You and Andy would have been fast friends.
Guest:I will say like, man, if you guys were in this, you know, the same era, man, you guys would have loved each other.
Marc:That thing that she said, I can't tell you how many times I've thought the same thing when, when, and I, and I'm nowhere in anywhere close to the position that Andy had been in to, to, to, to execute it.
Marc:But that when she said his career was going South and he wasn't getting hired on things that he was like, man, I'd just become a wrestling manager then.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like, can't tell you how many times I've had that thought.
Guest:You know, you relate to that very well.
Guest:Like you've had probably had that same thought.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:If this is not working out, just go to the local indie fed and see what's see what's up.
Marc:Anybody need a little pain in the ass to walk around around the ring and, you know, antagonize the fans and get some heat.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:I was actually kind of bummed to hear that Lin was there when he died because I was kind of hoping that he was still alive somewhere and it was just all bit.
Guest:I kind of wish that he was still there, but he's there in spirit.
Guest:Have you seen the movie?
Marc:No, I haven't watched this documentary yet, but I will.
Guest:I'm going to check it out.
Guest:I'd love to go to the theater.
Guest:It's only playing in like New York in like one theater, like the quad cinema.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, I'm going to try to check it out.
Guest:I also want to just say, I feel so bad for Charlie.
Guest:Like that poor cat.
Guest:Oh, shitting all over the place?
Guest:Yeah, shitting everywhere and like sad when Mark is away.
Guest:Like I totally get, you know, Mark's like just frustration, just heartbreak about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That really bummed me out.
Guest:But I will say the okra seed request for information, that's a whole ball of yarn I cannot understand.
Marc:It's also so classic, Mark, that some guy in a car was like, nah, this oil is great.
Marc:And he's like, hmm, gotta write that down and start putting it in my food.
Marc:you know, at least he's self-aware about it, but like he knows he's like, Oh man, I'm a sucker for this stuff.
Guest:You know, it's right in his queue zone.
Guest:It is, it is, it is totally him.
Marc:Well, we, uh, we, if we ever need to, there are always like, uh, you know, wellness resorts that we could go to and hopefully we don't have to, uh, travel to Thailand and be in the white Lotus season three, which looks like it's going to end poorly for virtually everyone involved.
Marc:Now,
Marc:If you don't watch the show, don't worry.
Marc:We're not going to spoil things.
Marc:In fact, that's why I wanted to do this today, because this Sunday is the season finale, and I was worried if we did it next week, we'd be inclined to tip our hand in knowing what happens to certain characters and that.
Marc:So we don't need to get into any of that.
Marc:We can just talk generally about the characters in it.
Marc:But I also thought...
Marc:Well, if somebody doesn't watch the show, what do they care about us talking about it?
Marc:And here's what I think we can do, especially for those of you who haven't watched The White Lotus.
Marc:The White Lotus, to me, is now, in this day and age, my ideal show.
Marc:Especially as what we were talking about last week about how I'm like, I just don't, I can't use TV the way I used to use it.
Marc:It's not, you know, my life doesn't allow for it to be like a nightly thing or even a really that regular thing.
Marc:Like I can maybe fit in one show at any given time.
Marc:And then what starts to annoy me is when the shows don't, you know, adequately conclude themselves.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They just draw out the string because they have to, because that's what television is.
Marc:And in this streaming era, it's very hard.
Marc:It's very hard to come across like high quality curated television.
Marc:You know, there's just so much, there's so much volume.
Marc:And I think the white Lotus for me has been ideal because it can tell a full story in eight episodes.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But then there's also like a serialized connection from season to season.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:However, since it is one story each season, one location each season, you get amazing actors who don't get locked in for years.
Marc:So you can, you're like, hey, can we have you for four months?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Okay, great.
Marc:Sam Rockwell, you're in this season, you know, whatever.
Marc:And you don't have to worry about the contract thing of like, I'm going to tie myself down to this for four years or whatever.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And the biggest element of why it's a great show, and to me it's like the most enjoyable thing to watch right now, is that you've got a singular vision of one person, which is what all the best shows are, right?
Marc:All the ones you can recall through history.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's like there's a showrunner or the creator behind it who's, you know, the person who drives the ethos of it, right?
Mm-hmm.
Marc:And and I think all of that is true with the White Lotus.
Marc:And now they have done three seasons.
Marc:And what I got to thinking was, what if you could do a fourth season made up entirely of people who have been in the show already?
Marc:So you'd basically get like the White Lotus all star cast.
Guest:Something that Mike White, the creator of, is very – a show that he loves, Survivor, does all the time.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:And they're going to do it for the 50th season as well.
Marc:I would not be surprised if he thinks to do something like this, frankly.
Guest:100%.
Marc:Like, maybe it's not every person is a past character, but like, you know –
Marc:Generally, each season has at least one, sometimes two people that are tied to a previous season.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I would not be surprised if he decides next season or if they do a fifth season that it's like, oh, I want eight, nine people who have been on this before.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And put them in the resort and see what happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:100%.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So I thought this would be a great way for people who are fans of the show to, to kind of review it and recap it with us.
Marc:But also if you've never seen the show, we could give you an idea of like what a great new season will be like.
Marc:And what I noticed going through the cast lists of this show is that he really does have a formula, you know, it's like, it is very much like TV where like things get refilled and, but, but he's, he's got the grace of having these great actors.
Marc:And he's an excellent writer, Mike White.
Marc:And he can make different characterizations, even if the archetypes are the same.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then they're always at a different location.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I also think I've, I've heard him say this and I, it's totally true that each show, each season so far has a theme, right?
Marc:There's, there's obviously themes that overlap, right?
Marc:Like obviously it's a show about rich people going to a hotel.
Marc:There's going to be class distinctions and stuff about money and wealth.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But if you really break down what is each season about, very simply, that first season is about money.
Marc:That's the overall conflict of everything going on in that season.
Marc:The second season is about sex.
Marc:It's about how we relate to each other, whether you're in a relationship, whether you're not, whether you're addicted to it, whether you're seeking it.
Marc:And this third season is religion or spirituality, right?
Marc:This is all about people trying, and this is why they're in Thailand, right?
Marc:With the Buddhists, that they're trying to find that missing God-shaped hole, right?
Marc:Which basically everyone is in all of the seasons, but this is the one where that is explicit.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Guest:For sure.
Marc:So, so like on the basis of that, you have all these archetypes and you can go from season to season with the same type of people, the management person who's, who's in every season, the, the, the hard charging mom character, the kind of a distant dad character, like they're all there.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So I thought, let's go through each of these categories.
Marc:I'm going to read them off and I'll read the people who of these three seasons make up each of those categories.
Marc:And what I want you to do, wait till we're done with them.
Marc:But while we're going through it, you select your choice and I'll select mine.
Marc:And we'll just tell them, we'll say them when we're done here.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:of who you think is the best in each of these groupings so that we can get to your final cast right like you're the fourth season cast and i think this hypothetical fourth season where you would have only returning cast members if a character we're not going to say if a character died in case you haven't seen the show but if they did you can bring them back
Marc:Because this hypothetical season could be a flashback season.
Marc:It could be a season that took place before the first one ever happened.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So we'll do that.
Marc:And also you can move staff around because the show has established that they do that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They have a work exchange program.
Marc:Which is amazing.
Marc:Perfect.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So if you like, you know, the Italian manager, she can go to whatever location you want.
Marc:Right.
Marc:She can go to Tokyo.
Marc:100%.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Okay, so let's start with management.
Marc:And so for management, the three characters are Armand, who was played by Murray Bartlett in the Hawaii season.
Marc:Valentina, played by Sabrina Impacciatore in the Italy season.
Marc:Did you see it there with my hand as I said that?
Guest:Good job, I like that, yeah.
Marc:And then Fabian...
Marc:In this current season in Thailand, who is played by Christian Friedel, who I did not know until Mark brought it to my attention, that that is the guy from the zone of interest.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What a turn.
Marc:That's wild.
Guest:I never knew that that was the same guy.
Guest:No.
Guest:Why would you?
Guest:And like, it's amazing.
Guest:Like, I actually had to Google it.
Guest:And like, it's like, holy shit, that is totally him.
Marc:That is the Nazi commandant.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:What a performance.
Marc:I mean, they're, they're all great performances, but I think what you want to do is pick, like pick whatever criteria you want, but you're going to choose someone that you're going to watch in a whole new season.
Marc:All right.
Marc:And you can then, when you pick the person, we'll explain why.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Each season has a, like I said, hard charging mom.
Marc:First season was Nicole Mosbacher played by Connie Britton.
Marc:She was like the Titan of industry character, right?
Marc:That was there with her family.
Marc:Love Connie.
Yeah.
Marc:uh daphne sullivan was played by megan fahey in the second season and uh it was hard because there wasn't really like a um a mom with their kids on that but she's the mom right and she their kids are at home and she's always trying to facetime with them and everything and
Marc:Uh, and, uh, as you find out, like she's the pants in that family, right?
Marc:She was the, she, she had, uh, this kind of douchey, uh, uh, finance guy who was the husband and, and, uh, she had him by the balls.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Um, a token husband.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, uh, and then in this season you have, uh, Victoria Ratliff, the pill popping, uh, North Carolinian played by Parker Posey.
Marc:Piper, no.
Yeah.
Marc:Uh, okay.
Marc:Dads.
Marc:Similarly, you have three dads who all give off the same vibe.
Marc:Uh, Mark Mossbacher, the great Steve Zahn in season one with his giant balls.
Marc:Uh, you had Dominic who is played by Michael Imperioli, a, uh, a kind of classic divorced, um, midlife crisis guy.
Marc:Uh,
Marc:And then Tim Ratliff, played by Jason Isaac in this current season, which I'm wondering if you have the same mental issue with him in this that I am having.
Marc:Do you know this?
Marc:You know, this guy is right.
Marc:Harry Potter guy.
Marc:Yes, exactly.
Marc:So he plays Malfoy in the Harry Potter movies.
Marc:And he's been in lots of things.
Marc:That's what people know him from.
Marc:But what's your problem with him?
Marc:It's not a problem, but it's a mental block issue that I have.
Marc:I can't make it stop.
Marc:Is that I know who he is.
Marc:I watch the show and I am aware of who's on it.
Marc:And yet every time I see him, my brain thinks it's Daniel Craig.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I've gotten past it, but yeah, he has like Daniel Craig vibes, like 100%.
Marc:Oh, and it's like when Daniel Craig does like a Southern guy, like I'm like, oh, that's, I think that's what it is.
Marc:Like I got like Logan Lucky in the mind and I can't shake it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or like Knives Out sort of thing.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Oh, totally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Anyway, those are your dads.
Marc:Then you always have a douchebag, like a white guy douchebag.
Marc:And in the first season, the character was Shane played by Jake Lacey.
Marc:Cameron in season two played by Theo James.
Marc:That was the aforementioned bro finance type of guy that I talked about.
Marc:And then this season you have Saxon played by a perfect casting of Patrick Schwarzenegger.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:The son of Arnold and Maria Shriver.
Marc:And basically I think it's like almost like a spoof on himself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:it's actually quite something to behold like he is he is great and you know like there's all this social media stuff like he like posted a video of him getting the call that he got the part and he was so happy and his family was so happy for him like i don't know you just can't help but root for the guy you know like it's it's it's you know it's hard yeah i can't help but root for the son of arnold schwarzenegger what a hard life he's had
Marc:But that's the hilarious thing is that like, it's almost like it needed to be a guy like, you know, to use the term I don't agree with a Nepo baby.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, that actually makes it work a hundred percent.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like the secret ingredient for the sauce.
Guest:It just ties it all together.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Every season seems to have a free spirit.
Marc:You know, someone who's who's like really kind of trying to search and find themselves and kind of, you know, bring new things into other people's lives.
Marc:I think the first season is like the weakest version of that.
Marc:So it's kind of like by default.
Marc:I picked Rachel, played by Alexandria, Alexandria D'Addario, who, you know, I think.
Marc:maybe it's because it does not end well for her free spiritedness, right?
Marc:Like the kind of ending of that character makes you feel like she has sadly compromised herself.
Marc:But when you think about it, when it began, she really is someone who's like searching and, and open-minded.
Marc:Well, she's a journalist, right?
Guest:Like she's like a journalist for like Buzzfeed or a listicle.
Guest:A listicle place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like, yeah, yeah.
Guest:There, there's definitely, there's,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She, she has an arc though, you know, and it's a very fully formed arc.
Guest:So yeah, I gotcha.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And then you have, uh, Lucia, the prostitute in season two played by Simona Tabasco.
Marc:Uh, probably like the definition of like a free spirit.
Marc:And, and then in this season, Chelsea, uh, played by Amy Lou Wood, who is the girlfriend of, uh, uncle baby Billy.
Marc:And, uh, yeah.
Marc:Walton Goggins playing another like sweaty, difficult man.
Marc:He's the best.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:This archetype I call the source.
Marc:And what I mean by that is there's a person in each season who seems to be the source of all the problems that certain characters are coming from.
Marc:So like in season one, it was Kitty, the mother of Shane, who is played by Molly Shannon.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:In season two, it was Bert, played by F. Murray Abraham, who was the father of Michael Imperioli's character.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And in this season, you don't get... We haven't gotten a lot of him yet, but he's clearly the source.
Marc:And it's Jim Hollinger, like basically the guy who owns all of Thailand, and he's played by Scott Glenn.
Marc:And so those are like, you know, people who are important to the story.
Marc:They're all...
Marc:supporting characters but like definitely the source of lots of the problems um each season has a good kid and a bad kid you got the good kid in season one uh quinn the the son of the mossbockers played by fred hetchinger and uh he just wants to you know figure out who he is and go swim and row with the native hawaiians in the in the ocean and
Guest:They have a guy who's always drunk.
Guest:I mean, it works out.
Guest:I don't even want a phone.
Marc:That was why he would get a spot on the crew team, right?
Guest:So great.
Marc:Albie is Michael Imperioli's son in the second season and played by Adam DeMarco.
Marc:And then Piper, the daughter of the Ratliffs, played by Sarah Catherine Hook, who basically got them all to go to Thailand in the first place because she wanted to find enlightenment at this Buddhist center.
Marc:You got your bad kids in each season.
Marc:Olivia played by Sidney Sweeney in the first one, which very interestingly, the backstory of the Olivia and her friend, the characters in that first season.
Marc:Mike White said he and you might not know what this is.
Marc:Some people listening probably do.
Marc:uh there is a podcast i don't even know if it's still going uh called the red scare and it was like at the time they were these two like ultra lefty um sarcastic women one of them is an actor who played um greg's girlfriend in succession uh or at least she dated cousin greg for a couple episodes she was like she worked for kendall and
Marc:And, uh, but anyway, they are these, they were these like snarky leftists that came out of like the Bernie bro movement and it's gone full horseshoe theory.
Marc:They're now both hard right wingers and, uh, as, as should, as always happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They're, they're like full Trumpers and, uh, uh, uh,
Marc:You know, it's it's an awful show.
Marc:And Mike White told Sidney Sweeney and Brittany O'Grady, who played her friend Paula, came on the trip with her.
Marc:He told them just to listen to the Red Scare show and be those two women.
Marc:Like that was his no direction to them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Uh, but, uh, but so that's the, that's season one.
Marc:Season two, the bad kid turns out not to be a blood relative.
Marc:In fact, uh, it's pretty demonstrably not a blood relative, uh, of this guy who is supposedly the nephew of, uh, of a, of a shadowy character.
Marc:This guy's name was Jack played by Leo Woodhull, which leads to the immortal Jennifer Coolidge line.
Marc:I think he was fucking his uncle.
Yeah.
Marc:perfect uh and this one this might be controversial that i would consider this a bad kid but i think he's a bad kid i think he's a directionless kid because i don't want to use saxon again so i am considering lachlan the youngest son of the rat lips yes
Marc:And that is played by Sam Nivola, who is another son of actors.
Marc:Oh, no kidding.
Marc:His dad is Alessandro Nivola, who you've seen a million times, but most recently saw him amazingly so in The Brutalist, where he plays the cousin who.
Guest:Oh, no shit.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:The cousin who houses the guy, the brutal.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Mr. Brutalist.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Mr. Brutalist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Awesome.
Marc:The brutalist.
Guest:Yeah, the brutalist.
Marc:Uh, yeah, he, he is his father and his mother is, uh, Emily Mortimer who, you know, I've seen a million times in, in, uh, in movies and, uh, 30 rock.
Marc:I always remember her from with her bird bone syndrome.
Marc:Uh, my bones.
Guest:I was just telling my wife that at the theater, she like, she knocked into me while taking off her coat and she's like, Oh, it's like, you have like brittle bone syndrome.
Guest:Bird bones.
Yeah.
Marc:Okay, this last category I have here is beleaguered staff.
Marc:So obviously this has to include Belinda from the first season, who is now also in the third season.
Marc:But Belinda, played by Natasha Rothwell, got totally screwed over in that first season.
Marc:Now, in the second season, I'm going with not a staff member of the hotel, but the staff member of Tanya, played by Jennifer Coolidge, was Portia.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Who is played by Haley Lou Richards.
Guest:I was wondering how Portia was going to factor in, but yes, you're right.
Guest:That works out here.
Marc:And then in this season, you have Guy Toc, the lovable security guard.
Marc:This fucking guy.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I kind of feel like he's going to be the hero of the whole thing though.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I get it.
Marc:He's putting it all together, but yeah, but it's like, it's so set up that he's going to like screw something up.
Marc:I just, I like, I see it again.
Marc:My wrestling brain is kicking in here.
Marc:I'm like, there's a swerve coming with this guy.
Marc:He's going to save the day.
Guest:Boy, when he's out on that date and he's saying that like, Hey, I'm not going to get a promotion.
Guest:And this woman is so like shuts down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was like, oh, I just thought you were more ambitious than that.
Guest:And it was just like, okay.
Marc:But that was when it happened.
Marc:I was like, oh, he's going to totally fucking shoot a guy and kill him.
Guest:100%, right?
Marc:And then lastly, I would like you and me to each pick a wild card.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Someone who doesn't fit into the categories.
Marc:You know, obviously conspicuous by her absence in any of these categories has been Jennifer Coolidge, who playing Tanya was one of the highlights of two seasons.
Marc:So feel free to pick whoever you want who did not fit into any of those categories who you would prefer.
Marc:pick as your uh additional cast member on this hypothetical fourth season so uh why don't we go through our our choices of the of the uh the the cast of the fourth season that we would create of the white lotus who do you have for the management position
Guest:I mean, Armand, 100%.
Guest:You love that guy, huh?
Guest:The arc of that character, it was just a snowball effect, and it just kept going, and it was just a wonderful sort of crescendo at the end.
Marc:That's the thing.
Marc:I feel like you could put him in another season and he would be equally wound up.
Marc:Because if you remember, but the beginning, this isn't to spoil anything, at the beginning of season one, he declares that he's newly sober.
Marc:So you could have another season that shows...
Marc:How he spirals into that.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Or he's already spiraling and then sort of like recovers, you know, like there's so much you can do with him, you know, like maybe he has a moment of spirituality or to find something in the void.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:So yeah, that's my pick.
Guest:Is that also your pick?
Marc:No, I'm picking Valentina.
Guest:Ah, okay.
Marc:Because I did feel like I wanted someone... She was one of the three of those management people that I always wanted more of.
Marc:And I think it's because of those three, she was the one who was the most comedically a foil to the other characters.
Marc:She was always sarcastic to them.
Marc:I feel like having a character in that position who gives as good as she gets...
Marc:is a little bit different than the other two.
Marc:So I would pick her.
Guest:Although I loved Armin's passive aggressiveness.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Like, I loved how he just handled... Fabian has that too.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, Fabian does.
Marc:Which is very, very hotel manager.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And very White Lotus, apparently.
Guest:They are a vindictive bunch.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:No slight goes unnoticed.
Marc:Okay, who would you pick for the mom?
Guest:I mean...
Guest:I love Parker Posey.
Guest:I love her in all things.
Guest:And it would be just, you know, disrespectful not to pick her.
Guest:Like, Parker Posey, I can't wait to have her in a new season.
Guest:I think she is hilarious.
Guest:And I also think she is poignant.
Guest:And her character, like, has a point of view.
Guest:And she expresses herself in a way.
Guest:So, yeah, I pick her.
Marc:I feel like both Parker Posey's character and Connie Britton's character to me are among the more repellent people in the show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I think I'm usually generally like repelled by people who are like unable to dislodge their brains from money and class.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And so they wind up, I wind up mentally circling them as villains.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Um, I, I would pick Megan Fahey's character, Daphne Sullivan, because if you remember from that season, she always seemed to be the one who like would present a certain way.
Marc:And then you could have a little twist where she, you're like, Oh, she knew the whole time.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you could always kind of, and she also seems like the one kind of character who you could drop in by herself.
Marc:Like she doesn't have to travel with her family.
Marc:Like she could be like, no, I'm here by myself or whatever.
Marc:So that was my pick.
Marc:for her.
Guest:See, I think Parker Posey, it's going to turn that she's actually secretly handling all the finances.
Marc:That would make sense because otherwise, again, not to spoil anything for anyone who has watched this season, but
Marc:this Ratliff family is on a trajectory where there seems to be no hope.
Marc:Like they're doomed.
Marc:By what you know already, they are totally doomed.
Marc:There's nothing that's going to come to save them.
Marc:So yes, it would have to be something like some type of deus ex machina that gets them off the hook through her.
Guest:And I feel like the seeds are planted.
Guest:She was mentioning the Cayman Islands.
Guest:I'm just saying, I can see like your wrestling brain
Guest:was activated my wrestling brain was activated in that first episode where it's like oh she mentioned the cayman islands that's an interesting that's a famous place for rich people to hide money so i'm just like she also clearly came from money herself 100 and also like she wants her daughter to fear uh being fear being poor exactly and i just and i feel like she was talking about her daughter but also talking to her husband
Guest:He has to fear being broke.
Guest:And I feel like that message is happening there.
Guest:So yeah, Parker Pose is my pick.
Marc:Who do you have for the dad?
Guest:Michael Imperioli.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:He's a character and I just want to see him again.
Guest:I thought that was a great performance by a known HBO actor that we both love.
Guest:So yeah, Michael Imperioli.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I'm picking this Jason Isaac, Daniel Craig character, mostly because I feel like he's been the most transformational to me.
Marc:Like, I don't even know that he's the guy he is.
Marc:I think he's a different dude.
Marc:I keep thinking he's James Bond.
Marc:So like, that's how good he is to me.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:There are interviews with him where he was talking about Dobby when he was on Harry Potter.
Guest:And he was saying that, oh, well, the director, he needs another take.
Guest:And he's like, well, why?
Guest:It's like, well, you tripped on that last take going down the stairs.
Guest:He's like, no, I didn't trip.
Guest:I kicked Dobby.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Dobby is a CGI character.
Guest:So the animators had to create him kicking this animated character down the stairs.
Guest:I mean, what's not to love about this guy?
Guest:He gets it.
Guest:You know, he gets it.
Guest:So yeah, I gotcha.
Marc:Also, I'm realizing that dads on the show, their balls come out all the time.
Guest:I feel like HBO is making up for past exploits of women.
Guest:Let's see your balls.
Guest:Dick over there.
Guest:Righteous gemstones.
Guest:I'm not going to spoil anything, but there's a lot of male nudity in that show right now.
Marc:Yeah, there we go.
Marc:All right, who's your douchebag?
Guest:Jake Lacey is my douchebag.
Marc:Yeah, same here.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:I feel like he's the one that fits douchebag the most.
Guest:Oh, 100%.
Guest:He's a douchebag I have met before.
Guest:And also you can bring his mom in because you know she's going to be there.
Guest:So you have that.
Marc:I will say, I think they've been very careful to not have another character as douchey as this guy.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Because you could do this every season where there's the guy who's mean to the staff, who's like, you know, very entitled.
Marc:Like you...
Marc:they hit that so hard in that first season with this guy that I was almost nervous that I'm like, is this show all just going to be about awful fucking people?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like you have to, yeah, you have to use this sparingly.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Guest:But no, he was the perfect like encapsulation of that.
Guest:And yeah, I love, I love to get, and I'm sure he's going to be at another white Lotus, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Who's your free spirit?
Guest:Oh, Chelsea, 100%.
Guest:Yes, same.
Guest:She is such a delight.
Marc:That's a fantastic character.
Marc:And she's got a tremendous presence, this actress.
Guest:And such a cutie and like really adds to like, man, she doesn't have a, she's not saying a word in a scene where the one woman is telling the Arnold Schwarzenegger's son.
Guest:Son.
Guest:This story about this guy and his mom and her reaction shots make the whole scene.
Guest:Yes, totally.
Guest:I want her in the background of every shot of that episode.
Guest:Yeah, okay.
Guest:So yeah, that's my pick.
Marc:Okay, so the source.
Marc:This is the Molly Shannon, F. Murray Abraham, Scott Glenn collection.
Guest:I mean, I'm going to go Molly Shannon because I just thought that she was fun, you know?
Marc:Yeah, fun and horrible.
Guest:Yes, of course.
Guest:I mean, look, fun, horrible.
Guest:Unfortunately, they're tied together.
Guest:Yeah, so that's my...
Marc:I need some more of that F. Murray Abraham character, especially in a different setting.
Marc:Like I was like, that was the thing.
Marc:I was like, I just want to watch this guy have to navigate like some rave or something like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I can see that.
Guest:Who's the good kid?
Guest:I'm going with the first kid from the first season.
Marc:Quinn.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Same with me.
Marc:Like pretty much of so far of the three seasons of the show, I guess maybe Belinda falls into this a little bit as well.
Marc:The only truly like redeemable character.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And, and also a character, I kind of want to see where he is now.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like I feel like he's the one guy things kind of worked out for.
Marc:I guess that Lucia, the prostitute, things worked out for her as well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like for him, I kind of can see it going a bunch of different ways, you know, and I definitely want to check back in with him.
Marc:Uh, who's your bad kid?
Guest:Bad kid is the, um, incest loving child.
Guest:Uh, Lachlan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What is this kid's problem?
Guest:What the fuck?
Marc:Well, I mean, this is the, the sins of the father and the mother, right?
Marc:Don't put that shit on me, Ricky Bobby.
Marc:like that shit that is not a thing that the parents have given him okay no it absolutely is because they broke he's broken he's never he's never been uh ever taught the proper way to receive love or what love is or what anything means to be
Marc:uh, loved by somebody else.
Marc:That unconditional love does not mean someone wants to fuck you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, and like, so he's totally confused.
Marc:He's got no way to have his self.
Marc:He has no self-esteem because the family's, you know, all concerned with superficiality and he feels lesser than all of them, like the runt or whatever.
Marc:And so like his brain is just totally broken.
Marc:It has, he has no idea how to be around his siblings.
Marc:He thinks like, if they love him, that must mean that he's got to kiss them or something.
Yeah.
Guest:No, I mean, I don't know.
Guest:There's a little person inside of all of us that are like, nah, let's not do that.
Guest:Yeah, he's missing that.
Marc:His folks fucked him up.
Marc:Yeah, I guess so.
Marc:But yeah, I agree he's bad.
Marc:I would want Olivia back on the show.
Marc:Like, that's the Sidney Sweeney character.
Marc:Like, she, first of all, like,
Marc:clearly like is the one that has the most potential to be a further terrible person like like everybody else walks out of this thing thinking like you know i kind of need to rethink of my life or whatever she seemed like the one who walked away feeling like she totally got boned and like yeah the way to solve that is to be worse yes yeah yeah yeah totally how about a staff member
Guest:I want Portia back in my life.
Marc:Same.
Marc:Yeah, I like Portia.
Marc:And the fact that she was just a random personal assistant, you can attach her to anybody.
Marc:Anybody else.
Guest:You can have her go with Parker Posey next.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So yeah, definitely Portia.
Guest:All right, who's your wild card?
Guest:Jennifer Coolidge.
Guest:I mean, what are we doing here?
Guest:Jennifer Coolidge is like an all... She is the all-star for the first two seasons.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:She was the surprise all-star of the first season, and then she was just the MVP of that second season.
Marc:All right, but I would say I have a problem with putting her back on the show, which is it's like a supernova.
Marc:She dominates the show.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And that was fun twice.
Marc:But like, if you're going to say do it three out of four times, it's a little much, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you can have it, you know, she can pop in, you know, have a little pop in and pop out, you know, sort of thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Especially if you're in a different era, different time, different place.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:All right, I think what would be great, I really hope he actually does this, that this would be one person who is in all four seasons, and it is Greg, a.k.a.
Marc:Gary.
Guest:Who's Greg, a.k.a.
Guest:Gary?
Yeah.
Marc:Tanya's husband.
Guest:Oh, of course.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, Greg is the actual thread of all of this, isn't he?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He is.
Guest:He's, yeah, that, that's true.
Guest:I didn't even think of Greg or Gary or whatever he goes by.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's fascinating.
Marc:Now I will say, okay, without getting into too close to spoilery territory, I think I can avoid this.
Okay.
Marc:by saying my criticism here, the one flimsy thing scripting wise of this season is why I understand the idea.
Marc:They establish it very clearly.
Marc:You go to Thailand to run away from your problems or whatever.
Marc:Why would this guy go live next door to a white Lotus?
Guest:I know.
Yeah.
Guest:It's like, yeah, I, I, I can't not explain.
Guest:It's like a, it's like a pedophile going to a school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The next door to a school or playground.
Guest:It's like, what are you doing?
Guest:Go as far away as possible for white Lotus.
Guest:It's bizarre to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But maybe it's part of his weird fetish thing.
Marc:Like he needs to watch.
Marc:So it's like, he can't, he needs the danger of it.
Marc:Remember the girlfriends talking about how it felt dangerous to him.
Marc:Maybe that's it.
Marc:He's like, I gotta go stay at a white Lotus.
Marc:And so that would work for the fourth season.
Guest:I'm nodding.
Guest:Like, like the young woman, uh, Walter Goggins is a girlfriend.
Guest:Chelsea.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, you know, this is a silly exercise because obviously none of that's ever going to happen.
Marc:But I think what it underscores is that this is a fun show to watch.
Marc:If you watched it already, hopefully you have your own ideas of who should show back up in a future season.
Marc:If you've never seen it before, hopefully we've given you an idea of what the show is like and you can check it out.
Marc:Hey, you know, you're in the streaming era and these are short seasons.
Marc:They're eight episodes a piece or so.
Marc:So you could just kind of like blow through them.
Guest:And can I just say, don't skip the intro.
Guest:Don't, don't, don't hit that button on the intro.
Guest:The intro is a banger.
Guest:It sets the tone.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's also a banger.
Guest:And also, by the way, there's news that came out from New York Times.
Guest:Like they wanted to interview the composer of the theme song.
Guest:And apparently he's never given an interview before.
Guest:And he's like, yeah, I'm done with that show.
Guest:Like me and Mike White, you know, screw that guy because he kept messing with my theme and like he wanted to take out all these, the Lululus.
Guest:So I'm done.
Guest:I'm not coming back for the fourth season.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, no way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like he released like the unedited version of this latest season just to spite, I guess, Mike White.
Guest:But yeah, a lot of drama billowing in and out of the White Lotus.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:It shouldn't be any other way.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Okay, well, if you have any thoughts about that show, please send them to us.
Marc:We'd be happy to address them spoiler-free so we can spare people who haven't seen the current season of the show.
Marc:And anything else you're thinking of, just go to the link in the episode description.
Marc:Send us your comments, questions, what have you.
Marc:And we will be here next week.
Marc:I am about to depart on a trip myself.
Marc:I'm going to New Orleans.
Marc:So any suggestions about that, I'll take them next week.
Marc:It'll be a day before I leave.
Marc:And so until then, I'm Brendan and that is Chris.
Marc:Peace.