BONUS WTF Collections - Moms
Thank you.
Guest:Today on the show, Amy Poehler.
Guest:Very exciting to talk to her.
Marc:How many kids do you have?
Marc:Two kids.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:Two kids under three.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:So people love you on the plane.
Guest:Oh, it's a nightmare.
Marc:I can't even imagine.
Guest:Well, we do that thing where we go around and, you know, you know how you don't want to talk to anybody anyway on the airplane.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I'm glad I'm doing my airplane material.
Marc:No, airplane's good.
Marc:You open right up with it.
Marc:You open strong.
Guest:But you have to go around and kind of apologize in advance.
Guest:And it's like helpful if they recognize me.
Guest:So you have to do that thing you hate where you have to go and kind of like show them and be like, hey, these are my kids.
Guest:And they go, oh, you're... And I go, I am.
Guest:And we're going to... Isn't it going to be fun how bad they're going to be?
Guest:So you do a whole circle around the area?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We do like a circle around the area.
Guest:And it works because it just... You don't stress about the fact that... Do you have shitty kids on the plane?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Guest:They're good.
Marc:It's just... I saw... What's her name?
Marc:Amy Adams?
Marc:Is that the redheaded actress?
Marc:She was like right next to me with her kid.
Marc:And...
Marc:And, you know, it's weird when you see movie stars on planes anyways.
Marc:And then you're with their kid.
Marc:And now you're like, oh, I might have reason to hate her.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:If that kid.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And they're nervous, too.
Marc:So it offers other people a window into your fear and vulnerability.
Guest:It does.
Guest:I say, like, I want you to know we have a lot of toys and stuff.
Guest:And we're going to work really hard.
Guest:But he might lose it.
Guest:And I hope while he's losing it, you recognize me and you're OK with it.
Marc:And you realize she's really funny.
Marc:She's given us hours of laughter.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I had some kid on the plane the other last week or so like had like had a not only was it crying, but it had an unusual cry, which was twice as irritating.
Marc:And I hate when I actually hate them.
Marc:Like I feel hate.
Guest:I don't like anyone else's kids.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You think having kids makes you like all kids, but it doesn't.
Marc:You just like your kids.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But do you actually resent them like that kid?
Marc:Good for you.
Marc:That's good for you.
Guest:Especially if you're by yourself because you're like, I don't have my kids now.
Guest:This is the time where I'm supposed to pretend like I'm 24.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you go play.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm traveling the world by myself.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:By the way, Paula Poundstone on the show today had a long conversation with her back in the garage.
Guest:We were riding in the car one day, and I said to my kids, I always try to let them know, and this was like right at the time where we were really struggling.
Guest:I was in the midst of the legal problems, and things were very difficult.
Guest:And we're riding in the car, and I always tried to tell the kids a couple days ahead of time when I was going out of town so it wouldn't blow them out of the water.
Guest:So I say – I say – I go, okay, mom's going on the big plane day after tomorrow because that's how we said it.
Guest:And my son was, you know, huffing and, oh, oh, was very upset about it.
Guest:And I said, honey, you know, I have racked my brain to think of something I could do.
Guest:You know, I said, but I don't know how to do anything else.
Guest:And my –
Guest:My daughter, Allie, who I don't know, she was maybe seven at the time, maybe.
Guest:She said, she goes, oh, mom.
Guest:And she goes, I love it that you're a stand-up comic.
Guest:And then she took this funny little pause.
Guest:And she said, and don't you love it?
Guest:Which was such a great moment.
Guest:I mean, she's a regular kid.
Guest:She's a kid who wants more for herself.
Guest:But for that moment, she cared about whether or not I was happy in my work, which just blew me away.
Guest:And it's not like I'd ever sat and talked with her about whether I was happy in my work.
Guest:I try not to burden my children with all of my difficulties.
Guest:She's a funny kid that way.
Guest:She's a great kid.
Guest:One time we were walking down the street because, trust me, soon thereafter she returned to as selfish as any other kid can be.
Guest:And that's just how they're supposed to be.
Guest:There's nothing wrong with it.
Marc:But there are those moments where they're just geniuses and sensitive and perceptive and they understand everything.
Guest:And so great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't have enough of those moments myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're walking down the street one day.
Guest:We dropped her older sister off at school and happened to be around Christmas time.
Guest:And I say to her, I go, why don't we go over to the mall and you could talk to Santa Claus?
Guest:And she was like, well, why would I want to do that?
Guest:And I said, you know, a toddler.
Guest:And I go, well, honey, because, you know, you sit on his lap and you tell him what you want for Christmas.
Yeah.
Guest:And she walked for a little ways and she said, well, you know, I said, well, have you thought about what you want for Christmas?
Guest:She said, no.
Guest:And she thought about it for a little while and we walked and walked and thought about it for a little while and she said, I would like a Christmas bear.
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:I almost started to weep right there on the street.
Guest:Like, I thought, what a wonderful child I've raised that has no, you know, she feels she has everything she needs.
Guest:There's nothing that she wants other than a Christmas.
Guest:It was such a beautiful moment.
Guest:And we walked a little further, and she said, I thought of something else.
Guest:At which point, the scroll, and I was like, yeah.
Guest:Oh, there's more.
Guest:She just needed to process.
Guest:She's like, oh, the window's open here.
Guest:I got a portal into getting my needs met with things.
Guest:Do we have time to stop and get a catalog?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Today on the show, I talk to Elizabeth Banks.
Marc:So your kid's going to Hebrew school?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You don't know.
Guest:They're too young, right?
Guest:Well, they're going to Hebrew preschool.
Marc:You just had a baby or got a baby.
Guest:I did.
Guest:Yeah, I just got a baby.
Guest:I had a baby.
Marc:You had a baby.
Guest:Well, it's my baby.
Guest:He came out of me nine months early.
Guest:That's how we talk about it.
Marc:How does that work?
Guest:It's a real crazy scientific process.
Marc:So both your kids are surrogates.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:Both my kids were born via gestational surrogates.
Guest:They're both mine and my husband's.
Guest:They are biologically and genetically 100% me.
Guest:That's so wild.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why that decision?
Guest:It's like a test tube baby and then you grow it.
Guest:It was not my decision.
Guest:At all.
Guest:It's not the way I would have done it.
Guest:It was literally the only chance for me to have kids that were mine.
Marc:So they take your egg and they take his sperm and they fertilize it outside and then they put it in another person.
Guest:And then they grow it in another oven.
Marc:Did you use the same oven?
Guest:I did use the same oven, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it was amazing.
Guest:The most amazing woman.
Marc:How do you meet an oven?
Guest:They have agencies, you know, they have people, they have facilitators that find lovely people and then hook you up, basically.
Guest:I use the same people as Elton John.
Marc:Did they use his egg?
Guest:Yeah, they used his egg.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Marc:So that's interesting to me.
Guest:Not a choice.
Guest:I don't know why people – I mean, for the gays that do it, they don't have a womb.
Guest:So that's the only chance they get.
Guest:Not my choice.
Marc:People think that you make that choice?
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:I don't want to know what people think.
Guest:People are idiots about this stuff.
Guest:For sure.
Marc:Well, my brother adopted three kids from three different people.
Marc:And he, you know, and he, you know, it was a situation where, you know, you meet the woman who's having your baby before.
Marc:And it all seems so gnarly to me in terms of like, you know, because that the person, even your surrogate, I imagine, even though.
Marc:it's your egg and your husband's sperm, has a connection to this thing.
Guest:You know, they do, but when it's not biologically theirs, it is a lot less.
Guest:I mean, and they also, they're going into it the entire time.
Guest:Their big win in this scenario is handing you the baby.
Guest:I mean, that's their goal is to give you your baby.
Marc:Now, is this somebody who's done it for other people?
Guest:No, we were there first.
Guest:We were her there.
Guest:I say there because she has a husband who's amazing, and they're an incredible couple that did this for us.
Guest:And they have their own kids.
Guest:They have kids.
Guest:How many kids do they have?
Guest:They have three kids.
Marc:That's fascinating.
Marc:How much do you get to know about these people?
Guest:Everything.
Marc:How do you decide on a surrogate?
Marc:What needs to be in place for them to be able to do that other than the desire?
Marc:Because there's no genetic material, really.
Guest:Really, the main questions you have when you go into it is, is this woman, you know, is she going to let me make every decision as if it's mine and if it's as if it's my body?
Guest:You know, and and that's that's what you're really concerned.
Guest:No one is concerned that they're not going to give you the baby at the end.
Guest:Your biggest concern is that they're going to force a baby on you that you don't want.
Guest:That's your biggest concern.
Guest:In surrogacy.
Guest:Meaning, the baby has spina bifida and is going to be born severely...
Guest:you know malformed is 100% going to die so you don't want someone if that's not what you want if you don't believe in that if you don't believe in giving life then to something that's just gonna die maybe minutes later and by the way if not minutes later then cost you a million dollars in medical expenses so
Guest:then you know don't don't get involved with surrogacy you need someone that you trust is going to honor your wishes about what's going on so oh oh i see i see so you're saying that if you want to terminate the pregnancy for whatever reason correct that they would have to agree to do correct because you can't force somebody to do that
Marc:Interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So everything worked out.
Guest:Yeah, we got two beautiful babies.
Guest:Thank goodness.
Marc:Now, does your relationship with this couple and family still exist?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like they come over for Christmas and stuff?
Guest:Well, I'm writing them their Christmas cards right now.
Marc:And do they feel any sort of like pride or connection to the kids?
Guest:They do.
Guest:They're really like, yeah, they do.
Guest:But that's like aunties.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's so wild to me.
Marc:Isn't it amazing that there's so many of these different avenues for which people can, you know, live their dream of having a child?
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:It's absolutely.
Guest:I mean, the fact that we were able to have our own children, despite the fact that my womb basically doesn't work, is amazing to me.
Guest:It's amazing.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, it was a super bummer getting there.
Guest:It's not a fun path.
Marc:When you found out that you couldn't.
Guest:It's horrible.
Guest:It's horrible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You have to mourn.
Guest:You know, you essentially mourn the loss of your fertility.
Guest:Your, you know, your superiority over men is that you can carry babies.
Guest:Like, ha ha, suckers.
Guest:Like, you get higher incomes.
Right.
Right.
Guest:But you can't do this without us.
Guest:But you die sooner and you don't get to have babies, you know?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And suddenly, like, I had to let go of one of those.
Guest:You know, I had to let go of, like, my womanhood in a way.
Guest:And just sort of give over to a process that I didn't willingly go into.
Guest:I mean, I went into it...
Guest:I went into it willingly, but I didn't go into it happily.
Guest:I went into it from a darker place.
Guest:And then in the end, it's all light and amazing.
Guest:And that's what they tell you when you start.
Guest:They say, in the end, there'll be a baby and you'll be so happy and you'll forget everything.
Guest:And you do.
Guest:You forget everything.
Marc:Was there the process of like struggling, deciding how you wanted to do it, like thinking about adoption and that kind of stuff?
Guest:Yeah, we thought about that.
Guest:I don't think that adoption, you know, I think people forget that adoption is not anyone can adopt whether you're fertile or infertile.
Guest:It doesn't matter.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it is it's not it's a way to be a parent.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it is not a solution or a, it's not a prescription for infertility.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's just a way to be a parent, to parent a kid.
Marc:So it was important to you.
Guest:But it was not a way, it's not a way to have your own child.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's certainly not a way to, you know, certainly.
Guest:So it was, it was secondary to gestational surrogacy for us always.
Guest:Because we all, we wanted, you know, we've been together for 20 years.
Guest:And there really is something unique and special about making a little, you know, half me, half him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, having your.
Marc:And now you can see it.
Guest:Having, you know, your genetics go on.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:And you can see it in the kids.
Guest:You can see it.
Guest:You really can see it.
Guest:It's amazing.
Yeah.
Guest:And on some level— And people that adopt are like huge souls.
Guest:I mean, I have so much respect for people who go that route.
Guest:It wasn't what we chose.
Guest:I get a lot of—not a lot.
Guest:I don't get a lot.
Guest:But every once in a while, you know, you get someone who is like, why didn't you just adopt?
Guest:There's so many babies out there that need love, da-da-da-da-da.
Uh-huh.
Guest:And I think, well, you just want me to validate your thing, number one.
Guest:And number two, adoption is no picnic.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It is not a picnic.
Guest:It's not easy.
Guest:It's not easy.
Guest:I know a lot of people that have gone through even more.
Guest:This process ended with me getting my own child.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The adoption process was just like another maze of maybe kind of who knows.
Guest:And also like genetics that you're like, you'll never really know.
Marc:Not for a while.
Guest:You're just not going to know.
Guest:You're not going to maybe get the information that Aunt Sally had cancer at 20.
Guest:You just don't know what you're getting.
Guest:So it was way more.
Guest:That felt like a very...
Guest:A path that was fraught in a way that like I was kind of done with being fraught because I had been through a lot already trying to conceive on my own.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That must be horrible.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Frustrating.
Marc:It's not fun.
Marc:And before I knew that you did that, before I did any research, I don't usually do.
Marc:And I think I saw you.
Marc:at that thing with Judd, and you're like, I just had a baby.
Marc:I'm like, wow, she's really up and out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That happens a lot, actually.
Guest:And I go, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You're like, yeah.
Guest:I like to believe that if I had carried my own baby, I would have bounced back, but
Guest:Who knows?
Guest:And by the way, it's such a horrible... Women should not be expected to bounce back.
Marc:I don't know how they do it.
Guest:It's, I think, a true disservice what's going on right now with all these celebrity moms.
Marc:Worried about their tummies?
Guest:First, I just want to remind people that celebrities generally are genetically superior human beings on a certain level anyway.
Marc:Are they?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, they're like, I mean, they're mostly thin.
Guest:You know, they got trainers.
Guest:They work out.
Guest:They've got money.
Guest:They've got the ability.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, and they are normally genetically predisposed to being thin people.
Guest:Anyway, it's like these women who are holding up, you know, certain people as their benchmark after they've had a child.
Guest:Like, just go be with your kid for a minute.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Don't freak out.
Guest:Don't get to the gym right away.
Guest:It's all right.
Yeah.
Guest:This is not how it's supposed to be, everybody.
Guest:Calm down.
Guest:So let's go now to my conversation with Wanda Sykes.
Marc:Did you interact with Obama?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what about her?
Marc:What about Michelle?
Guest:Stunning, warm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She was, yeah.
Guest:I mean, she, when we met, because my wife was with me, Alex was with me, and she had just given birth.
Guest:So I introduced her to, you know, to the first lady.
Guest:And
Guest:She turned to Alex and she was like, you mean you put up with her?
Guest:And we all were laughing.
Guest:And she was talking to Alex about France because she was saying that she's going to take the girls.
Guest:They were planning a trip to go to France.
Guest:They were talking about France a little bit because Alex is French.
Marc:She is?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She's from France?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But now she's also from Philly.
Marc:She's from Philly by way of France?
Guest:Let her tell it.
Guest:She's always from France.
Guest:I mean, she's a citizen now.
Guest:She's naturalized.
Marc:So she speaks with a French accent?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Fancy.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Do you go to France?
Marc:All the time.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You love it?
Guest:We're going again in, what, in July?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, can you speak French yet?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:You don't need to if you've got someone there for you.
Guest:Right, exactly.
Marc:It must be nice to go to France with someone who speaks French.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Does she have family there?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That's exciting.
Guest:All her family's there.
Guest:So, actually, her family comes here a lot, too.
Marc:So, did you ever think in your life...
Marc:That that would be part of your life?
Guest:Isn't that wild?
Guest:No.
Guest:You know, yeah.
Guest:Me married to this, you know, beautiful white French woman.
Guest:And I have two, you know, little blonde-haired, blue-eyed kids.
Guest:Really?
Guest:The girl from Virginia?
Guest:The country girl from Virginia.
Guest:The country girl from Virginia who used to like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Sit in the back of the room.
Guest:When we leaving.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Unbelievable.
Guest:Bizarre.
Marc:Do you sometimes just wake up and go like, what the hell?
Guest:All the time.
Guest:Really?
Guest:All the time.
Guest:I wake up and I just look around like, what the hell?
Guest:How did this happen?
Guest:How did I get here?
Guest:Are you grateful?
Guest:Yes, I am.
Guest:I am.
Guest:But also, it's just all bizarre.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I really, I feel like, what the hell?
Guest:What are you doing?
Marc:You got to pinch yourself?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is crazy.
Marc:Oh, I can't even imagine it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like I wake up in the middle of the night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And although it's like one of the scariest things ever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because, you know, the kids are five, the twins, right?
Guest:So it's one of the scariest things ever to wake up in the middle of the night and see two little white kids standing at the edge of your bed.
Guest:It's some creepy shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just creepy.
Guest:It's creepy.
Guest:Because there's a moment where you're like, what the hell?
Guest:What are these crazy little white kids doing at the foot of my bed?
Guest:What did I do?
Guest:Yeah, right, right.
Guest:What kind of horror movie is this?
Guest:What is this?
Guest:And then you go like, oh, they're mine.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:They're my kids.
Guest:They're my kids.
Guest:They're crying because you look so frightened.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:I was dreaming that I was living the life that I was a child.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That's hilarious.
Guest:But they crawl into bed with us, and it's bizarre.
Guest:It really is.
Marc:And they've been with you the whole time.
Guest:And that's the thing with kids.
Guest:That's all they know.
Marc:There's no color line.
Marc:No.
Marc:I imagine they'll ask questions eventually.
Guest:Oh, yeah, of course.
Marc:Yeah, but that hasn't happened yet.
Guest:A couple, well, they'll say things like, okay, like, my friend so-and-so, they have a mommy and a daddy, but, so I just have two mommies, right?
Guest:Like, yeah, that's pretty much it.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And they take that information, they go away, and then they... It's beautiful.
Guest:Yeah, and I heard my daughter explain that she met some girl on the, was playing with another little girl on the beach, and, uh...
Guest:And she came over to ask me something.
Guest:And, you know, I said, yeah, whatever.
Guest:And she went back and the little girl asked her, so that's your mommy?
Guest:She was like, yeah, that's my mommy and that's my mommy too.
Guest:And the little girl looked at her and went like, oh, okay.
Guest:And they both, you know, and they just kept playing.
Guest:It wasn't any, you're going to hell or how dare you.
Guest:It wasn't anything.
Guest:It was just, oh, okay.
Marc:It's a beautiful thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because it's those moments where you realize that all that bad shit is put in them.
Guest:Right.
Right.
Marc:you know like there's no judgment really none it's just sort of like all right i'm a kid and now we have kid stuff to deal with exactly no wrong or right or moral judgments it's sort of it's there's like a lot of hope in that but there's also that sad element oh it's coming yeah something oh it's coming they're but so you have two girls no boy and a girl okay well that's there's balance yeah
Marc:All right, so this is me and Ali Wong.
Guest:I had all my girlfriends from college and everything.
Marc:They're all here still.
Guest:They're all here.
Guest:And I love them to death.
Guest:We all had kids at the same time.
Guest:And we all like hang out without the boob and breastfeed together.
Guest:We like complain about our kids.
Marc:Is there a place called boob and breastfeed?
Guest:There's a place called the pump station.
Guest:Oh, there is where people do get together who like, those are for women who kind of, I think don't have their tribe yet.
Guest:And they need to find their tribe of women who are going through the same shit as them.
Guest:And they just, cause you need that.
Guest:And they gather and they breastfeed together and exchange tips on how to breastfeed better because it's hard.
Marc:Yeah, it's hard.
Marc:So like this special is like I love that you didn't even really fucking address that you were pregnant until two thirds of the way in.
Guest:Yeah, because it's not about that.
Guest:I mean, I had it's my first special.
Guest:I'm I never wanted to do.
Marc:And you just happen to be seven and a half months pregnant.
Guest:Well, it was like it was I think it was time for me to do.
Guest:I felt like it was time for me to do a special because I'd been doing stand up comedy for 10 or so years.
Guest:And I was like, I want to put a lot of this material away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had never done like a half hour or anything like that.
Guest:And also with the being pregnant thing, like so many people discouraged me from having a kid because they were like, why are you going to have a kid?
Guest:We're never going to see you again.
Guest:Because it's true.
Guest:Like female, like it's very rare to see a female comic who has a kid or is pregnant because female standup comics don't get pregnant.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because once they do have a baby, they disappear.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They become a martyr and then they stop doing standup.
Guest:But that's not the case with male standup comics.
Guest:I talk about this on stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Male stand-up comics, they have a baby and they get up on stage like a week after the baby's born.
Guest:Talk about it.
Guest:And then they'll complain about how the baby's shitty and boring and annoying and all these other shitty dads in the audience are like, that's hilarious.
Guest:I identify.
Guest:And then their fame just swells.
Guest:Because now they're this relatable family funny man all of a sudden.
Guest:And they get an HBO special and a sitcom deal.
Guest:And then the mom is at home suffering with bloody nipples.
Guest:uh broken pussy you know career over and and so like for me i had a lot of anxiety about it being over once i had a kid and i was like i'm not gonna let that happen and i'm not i don't want like even like being pregnant to slow me down so then i like planned it that way because i was like i need to know for myself that this is not the end
Guest:Like having a kid is not the end that this is that.
Guest:And I want to associate my baby girl and my pregnancy and having a kid with the beginning of something.
Guest:Like I hang out with a bunch of house moms now because I live in Culver City.
Guest:There's this park where all the house moms get there.
Guest:And I talk to them.
Guest:Some of them are so fucking funny, dude.
Guest:And they're so raw about their bodies.
Guest:They're going through some shit every day.
Guest:They're in the trenches.
Guest:Hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also, like, so happy to be housewives.
Guest:And I don't judge them at all, you know?
Guest:And I think, like, if that, like, they're living it.
Guest:They're living the dream, if that's what they, you know, that's what they want to do.
Marc:But also, the one thing that's important, I think, that you're saying is that...
Marc:So it's when women become mothers, especially early on, you know, they lose a good portion of their identity.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And so what, you know, what I hear you saying is that like these were all probably like pretty, you know, a lot of them might have been really radical chicks.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then they sort of this shift of identity doesn't mean that that personality is gone.
Marc:They just might not know where to engage it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, they some of them engage it with their kids.
Guest:Like I knew a mom who just like was like she I think she was probably pretty radical before.
Guest:I just knew her as a mom.
Guest:She didn't believe in having her kids do homework.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cloth diapers.
Guest:Those women are hardcore who do the cloth diapers.
Guest:I'm like, Jesus.
Guest:And then she's still rocking all the armpit hair, everything.
Guest:And it's like she's just engaging with her kid, going to war with teachers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're like, why the fuck is your kid not doing homework and you're encouraging it?
Guest:And I'm like, that's awesome.
Guest:But you got to be really... It's just so weird to me when people have these overarching statements about what it's like to have kids because it's so different.
Guest:It's like, do we make any overarching statements about what it's like to have parents?
Guest:Every parent is different and every kid is different.
Guest:And...
Guest:You know, like breastfeeding, which, what time is it now?
Guest:Because I might have to pump soon.
Marc:10 after 12.
Guest:I have to pump.
Guest:Jesus.
Guest:I'm long overdue.
Guest:So, you don't mind watching this?
Guest:No.
Guest:It'll be very interesting for you.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So, basically, with like breastfeeding, super sensitive, too, because some women don't have time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they want to go back to work.
Guest:Or maybe they don't have enough milk in their breasts to breastfeed.
Guest:But like on the west side of Los Angeles, there are these crazy lactivists that make you feel like your daughter's going to turn into a prostitute if you don't breastfeed, you know?
Marc:Lactivists?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's like a thing.
Guest:And I'm like, I, you know, I, I breastfeed, but it's hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, you'll see now I have to, you know, do this whole thing in front of you.
Guest:Do you, um, see, this is leaning in breastfeeding in an interview with Mark Maron.
Guest:Jesus.
Marc:But do you have an electric thing, or is this just what the pump is?
Guest:There's an electric thing, and I have a hand pump for when I'm in the car and I'm driving, and I just got a release, too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Pump and drive?
Marc:Can't you pull over?
Marc:They actually make it for driving, or you just use it that way?
Guest:Well, I got to go some places sometimes, and I can't be late, you know?
Guest:So it's like, I got to just do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah.
Marc:So, the...
Guest:Do you want me to walk you through this?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah, you don't have to try to talk about something else.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You can walk you through this.
Guest:So I have to wear this bra.
Guest:Right.
Guest:See, that has holes in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For these little funnel cups to go through.
Guest:Okay, yeah.
Guest:And so.
Marc:My mom didn't breastfeed.
Marc:It was not fashionable.
Guest:My mom didn't either.
Guest:Yeah, it was like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, then I have to take this off here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Take the regular bra.
Guest:Take the regular bra.
Guest:But that's a nursing bra because it's like pull, pull.
Guest:So then I can just have easy access to the baby.
Guest:Oh, I get it.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:So you switch them out.
Marc:Switch them out.
Guest:I have to wear these pads in here.
Marc:So you don't leak?
Guest:So that I don't leak all over in public.
Guest:Then I have to put on this bra.
Guest:This is what women have to do at work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When they go back to work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Up to sometimes like two years.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just every three hours.
Guest:And then a lot of women freak out about their milk production going down.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How long do you do the breastfeeding?
Guest:I'm going to just do it as long as I feel like doing it.
Guest:I've been doing it for five months now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'm trying to, you know, if I feel like, you know, giving her formula and I feel like not doing it anymore because it's too much, then I'll just switch, you know?
Marc:So you rig up one of those pumps to both boobs?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so this is both boobs.
Guest:You get them at the same time.
Marc:Oh, so you do have the electric thing?
Marc:I do.
Guest:I have an electric thing, and I also have a hand pump, too.
Guest:But the electric is nice because they get it in hands-free.
Guest:Then I don't have to... Do you need to plug it in?
Guest:Or is it... I think that one still has juice in it.
Marc:Oh, it's battery?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you can't see it up close, but when it starts coming out.
Marc:I could stand up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When you'll see, it's like when it comes out of my nipples, it's quite exciting.
Guest:It's like the Bellagio fountain.
Guest:Just different streams of liquid jumping up and over each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:See?
Guest:Can you hear it?
Marc:Yeah, you can hear it.
Guest:Oh, well, sorry, WTF listeners.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How long do you pump for?
Guest:10 to 15 minutes.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there it is.
Marc:What if you... Just lift that off the table a minute.
Marc:Not that.
Marc:The machine.
Marc:That's better.
Guest:Is that better?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean... When's it going to happen?
Guest:It's happening.
Guest:It's coming down.
Guest:I think you just can't see it right now.
Guest:Wait, hold on.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Does it pick up speed?
Guest:Or is that it?
Guest:Yeah, it picks up speed.
Guest:It's called a letdown.
Guest:And I can feel it.
Guest:It'll tingle and then it'll gush out.
Guest:No way.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, but you can't...
Guest:oh yeah yeah i see how it's like coming more frequently now oh my god yeah isn't that crazy my body's a food factory oh my god yeah i've never seen it before yeah it's a first yeah it's dedication man yeah when i so i had a c-section yeah and in the hospital i had to like when i was breastfeeding you know i was like still recovering from my body being sliced open and
Guest:And then had her chewing on my nipples.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was like, it was rough, dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I didn't know how to do it correctly.
Guest:I was bleeding.
Marc:Big learning curve, I guess.
Guest:Big learning curve.
Guest:Raw dog.
Marc:You were bleeding?
Guest:Bleeding.
Guest:And she was like, poor baby girl was like spitting up blood.
Marc:Why were you bleeding?
Guest:Because I was breastfeeding incorrectly.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I thought the baby's just supposed to suck on your nipple like a straw.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you have to get them to latch on at a very... It's a whole thing.
Guest:I never took a class.
Guest:I should have taken a class.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't read any parenting books.
Marc:No?
Guest:No.
Marc:And what's your husband do in all this?
Guest:my husband i mean was he supportive and like were you like i don't i'm fucking this is hard and he was like yeah he was like we'll be all right but they can't do anything i mean it still blows my mind that a woman goes through all of this yeah so involved with her body yeah and zero happens to a man's body
Marc:You resentful?
Guest:Yeah, I'm a little bit resentful.
Guest:I mean, even now, you know, where it's like, the boob is powerful.
Guest:It's like the only thing that will, you know, that will soothe her if she's hungry or something or if she's like fussy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm the only one who can do it.
Guest:And she doesn't need...
Guest:She doesn't need his body like she needs my body.
Guest:And I thought it was... I didn't understand how involved breastfeeding was.
Guest:For nine months, I was her house.
Guest:And I couldn't drink and eat tuna fish and do all this stuff.
Guest:Or do shrooms or ayahuasca anymore.
Guest:And now that I'm breastfeeding, I'm her refrigerator.
Guest:And I still can't drink or do ayahuasca or any of this stuff anymore.
Guest:It's like your body is still...
Guest:so involved but are you getting joy out of it a lot of joy yeah yeah i mean that part is really true yeah she's great and she makes me laugh hard like when you become a comic that doesn't laugh out loud yeah i can't as much anymore like she's the one of the her and my husband are like and my friends are the only who aren't in comedy are the only things that make me laugh yeah hysterically yeah yeah yeah
Guest:She's funny.
Guest:She's sweet.
Guest:And like, you know, all that when people are like, don't you aren't you going to miss doing all the stuff you're able to do?
Guest:I'm like, yeah, but I get to do other stuff now.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, we have a good attitude about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it helps, too, that all my best friends got pregnant at the same time.
Guest:So we have like a nice tribe, a nice little Kula going on.
Marc:Did you always knew that you were going to do that?
Marc:Like was there ever a point in comedy like before these other women comics or whoever was advising you not to have kids?
Marc:Was there, were you always going to have kids?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I always had like, I grew up in a big family.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And.
Marc:So you think you're going to have more?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I want to have it.
Guest:Like, I want to try to have three.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I grew up in a big family and also I grew up with old parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I always knew that they were, you know, when you grow up with like old parents, you kind of never feel protected and you're, you're always scared that they're going to die.
Guest:And, but thank God I had my, had my siblings.
Guest:And so when my dad passed away, I can't imagine going through that and still going through that without any one of my siblings.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't want my daughter to be alone.
Marc:Scared of that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I just want her to grow up with like how I did because it was so fun growing up with my siblings.
Marc:I had one.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:It was enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But three is about right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you know, then there's a little diversity.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Age separation.
Marc:So like what I noticed about the special is that you really can do a like almost like a companion special like within a year.
Guest:Yeah, I want to.
Marc:About childbirth.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because like you were just speculating about it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And you were speculating about all this stuff and based on what you heard.
Marc:And it seems like the childbirth experience that you had was not as bad in the same way as you were describing in the special.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like you didn't have to go through prolonged labor or were you always planned a cesarean?
Marc:No.
Guest:I tried to go for vaginal and I was having contractions for 24 hours.
Guest:And then I was like, I give up.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they were like, keep going.
Guest:I was like, hell to the nah.
Guest:Cut that shit out.
Guest:Cut it out.
Guest:Like Dave Coulier said, cut it out.
Guest:And then, but this, you know, C-section is no joke.
Guest:It's real surgery.
Guest:And then the anesthesiologist missed on my back.
Guest:Like 10 times because she was like, your spine is twisted.
Guest:I was like, your medical education must be twisted because I see all these bloody tissues around me.
Guest:I was like sobbing.
Guest:She was like, are you crying?
Guest:I was like, yes, I'm crying because you're stabbing my back with this needle like 10 times.
Marc:And your dad was an anesthesiologist.
Guest:My dad was an anesthesiologist.
Guest:he would have nailed it he would have nailed it that's what my mom said too that was the first thing she said right she's like your dad would have nailed it um but yeah and then like when my husband came in the room i had been sobbing my my whole body was shaking i don't know why i was freezing uncomfortable and i had like you know a shower cap on and like
Guest:And it just felt, and I was in like this cold room and I was like, we're never having kids again.
Guest:And I was like, this is it.
Guest:And then as soon as she came out and I saw her, I was like, let's do it again.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's that powerful.
Guest:It's like, you know, I mean, I've done ayahuasca, but like a kid is like, it's powerful.
Marc:So you're saying it's better than ayahuasca?
Guest:Oh, way better.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:At least you have your priorities in the right place.
Marc:Look, you guys, Brooke Shields is here, all right?
Marc:Brooke Shields.
Marc:I didn't know anything about the postpartum depression stuff.
Guest:Oh, no.
Marc:No.
Marc:I mean, I don't know why I would.
Marc:It's not really my world of reading.
Guest:No, no, I know.
Marc:But it did strike something in me around my mother.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, because she said to me in a very glib way a few years ago, she just out of nowhere said, you know, Mark, when you were a baby, I just don't think I knew how to love you.
Yeah.
Marc:And I'm like, wow.
Marc:Well, thank you for that piece.
Marc:That answers a lot of questions.
Marc:Doctor.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I don't know if she was depressed or just selfish.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But I mean, but it's definitely a symptom of that.
Guest:But it is a symptom and it can be there.
Guest:There's such a range, you know, there's it's sort of like postpartum to psychosis.
Guest:You know, there's this huge range of levels of it.
Marc:And it's so heartbreaking, that whole part of the doc and that part of your story, because you were just so you couldn't understand your mind.
Guest:I couldn't understand my mind.
Guest:And it's such a brilliant, any type of mental affliction or illness or irregularity or unbalance, I should say, you know, biochemically, you don't, it's speaking perfectly to you.
Marc:But for a person who's got their shit together so aggressively, to not understand something that you're generating, it's got to be the worst.
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:It's taking everything that made me who I am and absolutely ripping my legs out from under me and having no tools, no knowledge, and letting people down because they can't fix it.
Marc:So this is your first kid.
Marc:My first kid.
Marc:And, you know, how long did it take you to learn about it and get treatment?
Marc:How old was she?
Marc:Do you feel like she suffered at all because of this period?
Guest:I convinced myself that she was suffering because her father kind of came in and, you know, did all the—
Guest:He is.
Guest:He's a great guy.
Guest:He's funny, too.
Guest:So he, you know, he just kind of went into mode and he had never sort of held a baby before.
Guest:And now he was doing it.
Guest:And they have a very strong relationship.
Guest:And I sort of beat myself up about that for a long time.
Guest:You know, I thought you made them bond and you, you know, you did this to yourself.
Guest:And it was it just was amazing.
Guest:But.
Guest:And it only really lasted, it took some months.
Guest:It was about six months.
Guest:By a year, I had found the right medication and sort of combination of things.
Guest:And so, you know, and I went through the motions of bonding with her.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:It was just, I was in, I was just so unhappy.
Guest:I was so desperate.
Marc:You couldn't understand why your heart wasn't following suit anymore.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And why she was such a stranger to me.
Guest:You know, you look at this, it comes out of your body.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you don't recognize it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It doesn't, you know, I was exhausted.
Guest:I had gone through IVF seven times.
Guest:I lost so much blood when I gave birth to her and herniated my uterus.
Guest:I mean, it was just everything that could have gone wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I thought I was going to die.
Guest:They were going to give me a hysterectomy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so there was so much trauma that I experienced.
Guest:And then I get home and I don't know what to do with a baby.
Guest:And I'm depleted and I'm completely biochemically imbalanced and no one knows it.
Guest:They just say, you know, oh, stop breastfeeding or stop doing this.
Guest:And it's just you just feel so helpless and scared.
Marc:Was there no literature on postpartum at that time?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:Nobody told us anything.
Guest:I told the doctor and he was like, oh, it's the baby blues.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's what they called it.
Marc:That's the best they had?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:You'll get over it.
Guest:It's just, you know, you're tired, and once you get some sleep.
Marc:So it was really not a pathology at the time?
Guest:It was, but no one talked about it, and we weren't in— Was there a name for it?
Guest:It was postpartum depression.
Marc:Was that name there then?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:So what had happened was a doctor called me back, and his wife was a doula, and—
Guest:And, you know, he said, I apologize for violating the, you know, patient doctor privilege or whatever.
Guest:But you really worried me.
Guest:And I talked to my wife about it.
Guest:And she's a doula.
Guest:And she thinks that you are experiencing postpartum depression.
Guest:And would you take medication?
Guest:Of course, I said, no, I'm not going to take medication.
Guest:I've never had to take medication to be fixed before.
Guest:I fix myself.
Guest:And I do it myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was just so bleak that—and everybody said, please, please, please, please, please.
Marc:Oh, the pictures of you are horrendous.
Marc:I mean, you can just— You just look, like, you know, haunted.
Guest:Haunted.
Guest:My mother-in-law called me.
Guest:She said, I saw dead eyes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just, you know, so—
Guest:Yeah, so I finally said, okay, to get everybody off my back, I'll take a pill.
Guest:Clearly, I'm just, you know, oh, I'm going to be an actress that takes pills now, you know.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:You had a whole life set up for yourself.
Guest:Really?
Guest:pictured the worst of it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Of course I did.
Guest:I live in the wreckage of the future.
Guest:Yeah, that's a good one.
Guest:Yeah, so you took them?
Guest:So I took them, started feeling better, just started feeling normal, you know, and started wanting to just
Guest:Wanting to be around her, you know, and the smell of the powder of the diapers didn't make my legs weak anymore.
Guest:It was like there's something so visceral about what happens biochemically.
Guest:And I started just feeling just more myself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I went off cold turkey because clearly I was a doctor by that point.
Marc:And anyone who takes medicine is a doctor.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But ostensibly, I was a doctor.
Guest:And so I had a very bad episode where I thought I was going to drive my car into the wall on, I don't know, the 405.
Guest:And you see it.
Guest:I mean, it has pictures.
Guest:And if you close your eyes, the pictures rush into your brain.
Guest:And it's terrifying.
Wow.
Guest:And I was one with the phones, had the big thing that was in the car.
Guest:And I called my doctor.
Guest:And she said, what are you doing right now?
Guest:And I said, I'm on the freeway.
Guest:And she said, okay, what happened?
Guest:Did you go off the medication?
Guest:And I said, yes, cold turkey.
Guest:And she said, how's that working out for you?
Guest:And I said, this is not good.
Guest:And she said, stay on the phone with me.
Guest:You're going to drive home and you're going back on immediately.
Guest:She said, medicine is there for a reason.
Guest:It does not mean you are weak or you are a failure or anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you stop taking it in light of the Tom Cruise bullshit?
Guest:No.
Guest:God, no.
Guest:I stopped taking this before the Tom Cruise thing.
Guest:Because I hadn't talked about it.
Guest:Publicly.
Guest:Yeah, I hadn't talked about it until I wrote the book.
Guest:So that was about a year, over a year later.
Marc:So this is all part of the book.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:The journey of it.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And then did you find, was there support groups or anything?
Marc:I mean, when you wrote the book, were you talking to other people?
Guest:I first talked to people and everybody denied it.
Marc:Because of shame?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:And then people would come to me secretly and they would say, you know, I think my sister's struggling.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:My wife is, you know, but it's supposed to be the most natural thing in the world.
Guest:I mean, babies have been being born for quite some time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But the funny thing is, is like, you know, more than about half of them don't turn out great.
Guest:I know.
Marc:There's so much.
Guest:Well, I don't like people just in general.
Guest:I don't like people, but kids and I don't like other people's kids.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they.
Guest:You just, and you, it's just, it's unfathomable.
Guest:I didn't, I, I was so thrown and nobody knew.
Guest:And I, you know, I broke my husband.
Guest:I mean, he just, he felt so helpless.
Guest:And then people started quietly saying, you know, I think I had it.
Guest:I think my mom had it.
Marc:It's weird about, it's like, this has been this thing in my brain lately.
Marc:It's like people who don't take responsibility for their mental problems are,
Marc:are just spawning generations of that mental problem.
Marc:It never stops.
Marc:No.
Marc:You can't power through it and buck up.
Marc:But it's like hereditary.
Marc:It's just almost just behaviorally hereditary.
Marc:Maybe not postpartum, but in general, you know, if you have a problem, whether it's alcoholism or borderline or whatever.
Guest:You're predisposed.
Guest:I mean.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you don't take responsibility for it.
Marc:You're just gifting it to the next generation or at least the reaction to it, whatever that is.
Guest:And that's why I think I decided to write the book was because it was so ludicrous to me that this was something that people were ashamed of.
Guest:I said, like, I didn't choose to have this.
Guest:And it helped understanding it biophysically, you know, because then it was not my fault.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But the Tom Cruise thing, that was Scientology bullshit.
Marc:And you pushed back.
Marc:I did.
Marc:And you can see that in the movie.
Marc:And I guess, like, to wrap it up, though—
Marc:Now that you have these daughters and given what you went through, I mean, you know, what are your primary concerns and what are the sort of nuggets of advice you give them in relation to how you came up in the world?
Guest:Oh, gosh.
Guest:I mean, we talk a lot about everything.
Guest:You know, they think it was the olden days.
Guest:They were like, you're old, Mom.
Guest:And they'll say, Mom, you don't get it because it wasn't like that for you.
Guest:And so I say, all right, then you tell me.
Guest:How it is, and let's have a conversation about it.
Guest:What I try to instill in them is work ethic, manners, meaning respect.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Owning your space, listening.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Um, being a good friend as, as well, you know, being like, that there are, I mean, my children are very moral.
Guest:I have to say one of them is very righteous and, and my older one is, um, she's a bit more easygoing about things.
Guest:Um, and, but they both, I, they're very much their own people.
Guest:And I think that I've tried to teach them to be their own person because I was never, I didn't know who my own person was.
Guest:You belong to the world, Brooke Shields.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:But, you know, also, it's so interesting.
Guest:When this doc was presented to me, my actress ego immediately sort of went to, oh, everybody's going to see my work.
Guest:And then I had to sort of step back from that and really realize that this was a bigger story.
Guest:And I wanted my girls to see...
Guest:How to survive and keep going through life.
Guest:And don't let yourself be beaten.
Guest:You're going to be hurt.
Guest:You'll be scared.
Guest:But surround yourself with good people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Get a Laura Linney.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And pick your friends.
Guest:And find something that makes you happy.
Guest:Oh, there you go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And really do it.
Guest:I mean, really find the joy in it because it's going to be hard.
Guest:You're going to be rejected no matter what you choose.
Guest:But the joy that I get from being who I am as an actress is worth all of it to me.
Marc:And did they hear all that?
Marc:Did they take it?
Guest:They hear it.
Guest:They take it.
Guest:And they're, you know, they fight me on certain things.
Guest:But when I start talking to them about this stuff, they see the experience.
Guest:And they, my older daughter said, you're the strongest person I've ever known, Mom.
Guest:And she said, you know, I watched the documentary.
Guest:She watched it by herself.
Guest:And she said, I can't believe there's so much I didn't know about it.
Guest:But you're really cooler than I thought.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:See, you got a few points.
Guest:Yeah, I'll take it.
Yeah.
Guest:Hello?
Marc:Hi, Mom.
Marc:It's Mark.
Marc:Can you hear me?
Guest:Not as good as I heard you before.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Let me see if I can fix it.
Guest:You sound very far away right now.
Marc:All right.
Marc:How about now?
Guest:Yeah, I can make it out.
Marc:Basically, Mom... Mark.
Marc:I guess what I want to talk to you about is... Were you worried that I wasn't going to make it?
Guest:Most of the time, I always knew you'd make it.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, there were times when you were not...
Guest:Or, you know, you were boozing and that stuff that I got scared.
Marc:Like scared that I was going to die or that I was just going to throw my life away?
Guest:Throw your life away.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And, you know, has my success changed you at all about things?
Marc:Me?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, certainly.
Guest:How?
How?
Guest:I'm just a proud mother.
Guest:I walk around and they say, there's Mark's mother.
Guest:Do they?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you kidding?
Guest:And it's just a good feeling to know that you've got what you've finally worked so hard for.
Marc:And you listen to the podcast regularly, right?
Guest:Regularly.
Marc:And that's how you know what's going on with my life.
Guest:It's about the size of that, and I read your newsletter.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then I send it to my friends, who I think will want to read it, too.
Guest:Like who?
Guest:My friend Shelly, and there's another two people in the development who are very into you.
Guest:I send it to them and to my nieces.
Marc:So you're actually able to be proud of me now.
Guest:Mark, it was not that I was... I was always proud of you.
Guest:I was very sad a lot of times that I was...
Guest:Just afraid you weren't going to get what you deserved.
Marc:Well, I guess that comes with, you know, when you choose a career in show business, I guess you just never know.
Marc:But, I mean, I have to assume that all those years where I was miserable and I was trying very hard to do something that, like, I mean, I know there were periods there where you must have thought, like, well, he's not quite there yet.
Marc:Like, whatever he's trying to do, it's not quite right yet.
Marc:Like when he'd watch me do stand-up and he'd be like, no.
Guest:Yeah, sometimes when I saw you do stand-up.
Guest:But once you started on Air America, I used to run with you every morning.
Guest:And from then on, it was like I knew that things were going to start happening, even when you were on that program with your friend Steve.
Guest:What was his name?
Guest:Sam Cedar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just knew that eventually you were going to catch on.
Marc:Well, you thought that way because like you thought radio was a good medium for me.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And now I know you haven't seen too much of the new season, but like, all right.
Marc:When I talk about you or when I, you know, when I talk about dad or our family or now that, you know, I have Sally Kellerman playing you on the show.
Marc:I mean, does it does that make you uncomfortable?
Guest:No.
Marc:It doesn't, right?
Guest:The only... I'll tell you what makes me uncomfortable.
Guest:When it's a sexual episode, there's stuff that I don't have to know about.
Marc:Oh, you mean about me?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So you don't like to see your son making out with women?
Guest:Or...
Guest:It depends on the episode.
Guest:I mean, there were a few in the first season that I found embarrassing.
Guest:For me?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah, of course for you.
Guest:Not for you.
Guest:Well, I was embarrassed because, yeah, it works both ways.
Marc:It's uncomfortable.
Guest:It was uncomfortable.
Marc:But you don't mind Sally Kellerman playing you, right?
Guest:No, I like it.
Marc:And I know you saw a little bit of the family episode.
Marc:You haven't seen all of it yet, but you seem to have some issue with that.
Marc:What was the issue with that?
Guest:Um...
Guest:It wasn't as crazy as the family really is.
Guest:Oh, I'm sorry.
Guest:I should have made it.
Guest:It was dull.
Guest:It didn't show how dysfunctional we really were.
Marc:I'm trying to protect some people.
Marc:I mean, Dad's not talking to me.
Marc:I'm talking a bit on this episode about the risks we take.
Marc:If we talk about our lives and our family is involved and, you know, I think it might have permanently strained my relationship with him.
Marc:What do you think I should do about that?
Guest:I think you should do what you're doing.
Guest:You're trying to make amends.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you think?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you think I should maybe get in contact with him and see if I can make it right?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Just for my own sake?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, definitely not for his, for yours.
Guest:No, you know, if he dies tomorrow, I don't know how you'll feel.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, I mean, I'm not telling you to get down on your knees, but just to make an effort to see if you can just, you know, let the whole, if he can let the whole thing go.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if he can ever do that.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I guess it's not, you know, whether he can do that or not is not really my issue.
Guest:No.
Marc:I guess I just have to apologize for causing him undue stress.
Guest:I guess that would be the way to go.
Marc:But do you think he was overreacting?
Guest:I think the man is a little crazy, yes.
Guest:I think that's just him.
Guest:I mean, he just twists everything around.
Guest:Of course he was overreacting.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Guest:It was funny.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:I'll have to figure it out.
Marc:But all right.
Marc:But so you're happy then.
Marc:You're relaxed and I'm finally doing okay.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Well, I love you, Mom.
Guest:Is that it?
Guest:I'm done.
Marc:Well, what do you want to talk about?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just want you to know that I do love you.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And I'm super proud of you.
Guest:And I really, I can honestly tell you, Mark, that when I hear your interviews, I'm in awe.
Guest:I just can't.
Guest:Imagine how you come about bringing all these people out like you do.
Guest:I think it's totally amazing.
Guest:All right.
Guest:And I'm in awe.
Guest:What can I tell you?
Guest:That's the truth.
Marc:Well, that makes me happy to hear.
Marc:I'm glad that I've impressed you and that you're proud of me.
Guest:And I'm glad you found this niche that is so great for you.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I'm a little choked up now.
Marc:Thank you, Mom.
Guest:I love you more.
Marc:I love you too.
Marc:Bye.
Bye.