BONUS WTF Collections - Dads
Marc:Jack Gallagher is a great comic.
Marc:He was a comic in Boston.
Marc:But I had a very interesting chat with Jack about his life and what it's like to raise a son with autism.
Marc:He's got two sons.
Marc:And, you know, he's done some videos.
Marc:A Different Kind of Cool is one of the Jack Gallagher videos.
Guest:Then Liam comes along, and Liam is the subject of a different kind of cool because, you know, you watched it.
Guest:When Liam was seven, he's going to be 16 in the fall.
Guest:But when he was seven, he was diagnosed with autism.
Marc:But my question in looking at the show and in your experience and how you portrayed it in the show was that...
Marc:I mean, it must have been, something must have been apparent before seven.
Marc:I mean, how strong was the denial on your part?
Marc:Because you talk about that, that you were adverse to having him tested.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't want him labeled.
Guest:Because once he's labeled, he's labeled for life.
Guest:And I didn't know at that time that we could control the label.
Guest:that it didn't have to be what I thought it was going to be.
Guest:There was some denial now looking back.
Guest:You don't know you're in denial.
Guest:No, no, I was just curious when I was watching it.
Guest:No, he was always a smart kid.
Guest:He was always one of these, you know, he started reading at four.
Guest:Just, I say in the play, he walked behind my wife and read an ad out of the newspaper from top to bottom at four.
Guest:And words that were, you know,
Guest:But there was some social problems, issues with him.
Guest:And so it got to the point where we needed help.
Guest:And in the second grade, we had him tested.
Guest:And they said he's autistic.
Marc:What kind of social problems?
Guest:Perseverating on topics.
Marc:I hear that word a lot because my girlfriend works with autistic kids.
Marc:Perseverating where it's a repetition.
Guest:Same thing.
Guest:Talk about the same thing overnight.
Guest:An interest in one thing.
Guest:A lot of autistic kids are interested in trains, railroad trains.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Don't know why.
Guest:But Liam has, he's grown out of that, but was way into trains.
Guest:Difficult to, doesn't look at you when he talks to you.
Guest:It's like stuff I talk about in the play.
Guest:Like when we're talking to each other and I'm saying something, you nod your head.
Guest:Where'd you learn how to do that?
Marc:Right.
Guest:That's through osmosis.
Guest:Your parents didn't say, nod your head when somebody talks to you.
Guest:He didn't pick that stuff up.
Guest:So he has to learn that stuff.
Guest:For years, we tried to get him to ask questions.
Guest:And I don't know if I talk about this in the play, but we wanted him to ask a question.
Guest:Because he would just talk to you about his day, what he'd been doing.
Guest:And so we'd try to have conversations.
Guest:And the question we wanted him to ask was, how was your day?
Guest:And I just worked on that forever and ever and ever with his therapist, with occupational therapy.
Marc:Now, is that about actually being able to have concern or to be taught to listen to someone else?
Guest:It's a really weird situation because...
Guest:He has to fit into a certain degree to function in society.
Guest:I don't want him to change.
Guest:That's the lesson I learned is that I don't want him to change.
Guest:I want him to stay as this person that he is, which is completely different and unique and honestly, a really different kind of cool.
Guest:But he has to function in society.
Marc:He's authentic.
Guest:Yeah, he's one of a kind.
Guest:He is.
Guest:Well, you talk to him and you go, wow, this kid is, he's interesting.
Guest:He's funny.
Guest:But he's different.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But he has to fit into society.
Guest:And this is the thing as a parent, when I'm gone, I want him to be able to function.
Guest:And there are certain things that you have to do to function.
Guest:And one is to engage other people.
Marc:Now, but these kids have needs, but they may not have interest in other people necessarily.
Guest:That's fine.
Guest:And I don't care if he's interested in it.
Guest:But is that true?
Yeah.
Guest:He loves other people, and he wants to talk to people, and he wants to engage you in conversation.
Guest:He just has a hard time with it.
Guest:It's very difficult to describe.
Guest:He just has a difficult time with it.
Guest:He doesn't know how to do it.
Guest:You have to teach him tiny steps.
Guest:And things that you and I picked up just, again, through osmosis, he's had to learn, like asking you, how was your day?
Guest:And I remember walking across the playground with him at school.
Guest:He was in like the fourth grade and he just turned to me and said, so how was your day?
Guest:And I called my wife and said, he just asked me how my day was.
Guest:It was like this giant fucking breakthrough.
Guest:And she said, Liam?
Guest:And I said, Liam Gallagher asked me how my day was.
Guest:And I remember saying to him,
Guest:Good.
Guest:Good day.
Guest:And now he'll say, you know, I mean, he's a 15-year-old kid.
Guest:He's got the same interest that a 15-year-old kid has, and he's just different.
Guest:That's all.
Marc:And there's physicality issues as well?
Guest:He does a lot of stimming.
Guest:It's called stimming, where he'll shake his hands real violently, or he'll jump up and down, or he'll make a fist and push it into his forehead sometimes.
Guest:And I ask him why he does that, and he says it just kind of relieves the pressure.
Guest:It makes perfect sense.
Guest:It does, because we do it.
Guest:Sure we do.
Guest:Whether it's...
Guest:Or jumping up or punching something.
Guest:Or exercising.
Guest:And he'll say to me, I'm stimming a lot today.
Guest:And it breaks your heart sometimes because he'll say to me, Dad, I know this autism causes me to do this and I want it to stop.
Guest:But I'll say to him, look, it's what makes you creative.
Guest:The kid's written a Simpsons script.
Guest:He's created a whole town in his head of people that are actually, you know what I mean?
Guest:He's just got this great imagination that I don't want to squelch that I was trying to for a while.
Marc:Well, the realization around that was a mixture of concern and fear for the kid.
Marc:Yeah, and embarrassment.
Marc:And embarrassment.
Marc:I was embarrassed of him at times.
Guest:And I'm no longer embarrassed of him.
Marc:Well, you talk a little bit about that moment you had with that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A guy came up to me and said, is he going to get over this?
Guest:And I said, what?
Guest:You know, jumping up and down, acting the way he acts.
Guest:But you knew what he was talking about, right?
Guest:I knew what he was talking about, but I wanted him to tell me.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I mean, it's your kid.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What am I going to say?
Guest:No, he's not going to get over it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And at the time, I didn't say anything to him.
Guest:I wish I had, but at the time I wasn't confident enough in myself and him, Liam, to deal with it the way I should have dealt with it.
Guest:People do that all the time.
Guest:See, the thing about Liam is there's no physicality, there's no physical cue that tells you he's different.
Guest:He's not in a wheelchair, he doesn't have any muscular dysfunction.
Guest:He doesn't have anything as a physical... See, if we see people with a physical cue, you know I'm going to have to deal with this a little differently.
Guest:But Liam's not that way.
Guest:You start talking to him and it takes you about a minute to realize, okay, something a little different happened here, a little skew.
Guest:You know, and that throws people off.
Guest:There are people who just blow them right off, don't want anything to do with them.
Guest:And I was embarrassed of him at times because he's my kid and we'd be standing places and he'd be bouncing up and down and I'd be, dude, stop bouncing.
Guest:But then I had this moment with him, this really revealing moment where I was working really hard with him.
Guest:I mean, I rewrote textbooks for him.
Guest:I just wanted everything to work.
Guest:And I had this really telling moment with him where he...
Guest:He basically told me I was doing it the wrong way.
Guest:And he told me he was doing the best he could and that he was really trying hard and why was I so angry all the time?
Guest:And I thought, shit, I'm not doing this right.
Guest:So I just stepped back and I let him be himself and I watched what he did and I sort of followed him.
Guest:And now we have a way we get, I mean, he's my bud.
Guest:I understand him better.
Guest:It was me, it wasn't him.
Marc:So you figured out how to communicate on his terms because it's not physical therapy.
Marc:It's not like we're not treating a sprain.
Guest:I came to the conclusion I didn't want to change him.
Guest:I was trying to change him.
Guest:I was trying to make him into, he's not a boring person.
Guest:I was trying to make him into every white bread person I know.
Guest:No, don't do it like this because this is the way everybody does it.
Marc:Well, I imagine that weird mixture of concern for what he's going to have to go through
Guest:that had to trump your embarrassment at some point yeah and and and and it wasn't about me anymore right it's like well this isn't about you it's not surprisingly not everything's about you yeah yeah yeah uh it was about him and making his life as as nice as possible for him and and and setting up a you know a pathway for him and people deal with this all the time and this is the reaction i get from people is i have an autistic nephew i have an autistic child my grandchild is autistic and we don't know what to do well
Guest:i'm letting him live his life i'm trying his heart you know when he goes off the path i tell him you're going off the path dude don't do that that's not right like what well whatever i mean you know if he's i can't think of a specific but i do with his older brother you know it's like being a parent right you know don't do that again that was ridiculous or whatever
Marc:On the show today, the wonderful John Glazer, the insanely funny John Glazer from the show, the Adult Swim Show Delocated, and many other things.
Marc:I've known John a long time.
Marc:We recently adopted a second child.
Guest:Yeah, we adopted a little girl.
Guest:Frederica.
Guest:Oh, that's nice.
Guest:Not very Jew-y.
Guest:Named after a relative?
Guest:No, when we were thinking of names for my son, before we knew he was going to be a boy, we went through names and just kind of liked that name, Freddy.
Guest:It's pretty cute.
Guest:What's your boy's name?
Guest:Nathan.
Guest:Nathan.
Marc:Nate and Freddy.
Marc:So now you're back in it.
Marc:That's a big age difference, six and newborn.
Guest:Yeah, I was slightly concerned about it, but not overly so, but it's awesome.
Guest:I mean, even just the, he's so, it's just watching him with her is just, you know, it's unreal.
Guest:It's so, he wanted a sibling for very long and was always asking about a sibling and talking about it.
Guest:Make another one, make another one.
Guest:Yeah, I want, we should get a sister and a brother.
Guest:And even when we told him- We should get them, get one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you did.
Guest:And we did.
Guest:That's how, that's what we told him.
Guest:It was a really-
Guest:Bizarro thing to sit down with him and talk to him about it.
Guest:Cause it all happened very quickly.
Guest:You just did it to get out of explaining sex to your kid.
Guest:Didn't you?
Guest:Pretty much.
Guest:But, but, but by doing that, I still had to explain it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, you know, so when mommies and daddies make a baby,
Guest:you know, and they put it in and then, you know, make it, you know, rub it and stimulate it.
Guest:So stuff comes out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I still had to explain that to say, we didn't do that.
Guest:Someone else did.
Guest:Someone else did.
Guest:And we are buying that baby.
Guest:And that's why you're going to have less toys.
Guest:Because we don't have the money for those anymore.
Guest:Yeah, we gave you a living toy.
Guest:Because we had to buy this baby.
Guest:And he just had a look on his face like...
Guest:All right, I understand.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Because it really happened very quickly and it wasn't like we were preparing him for it.
Guest:We didn't tell him we were in this process because that would just be confusing, I think.
Guest:What made you do that?
Guest:You just knew you wanted another one and you didn't want to make one or what?
Guest:We tried.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We tried to get pregnant.
Guest:It didn't happen.
Guest:Even before we had kids, we had talked about we were both open to adoption as an option.
Guest:So when we were trying again, it wasn't happening.
Guest:We decided to turn to adoption and...
Guest:We did it.
Guest:And, you know, spent a large portion of last year in the process of.
Guest:And then it all kind of came together very quickly.
Marc:Did you know that when my brother did it, they knew the parents.
Marc:Like it was like my brother did that thing where his lawyer or whatever found a woman who was pregnant.
Marc:Like all three kids, they were there at the birth, give or take.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:We didn't have that experience.
Guest:I mean, my wife met the mom.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I did not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it was very brief.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But this was a situation, I think a lot of these adoptions now, like the process, I really have to say, was not enjoyable for me at least.
Guest:Like part of it was, you know, you go through the clearance of, you know, background checks, security checks, FBI, fingerprints, all that stuff.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you have to wait to get approved.
Guest:And then, you know, there's home visits and all this stuff from social workers and all that.
Guest:And once you're cleared, then you put your information out there.
Guest:However, you know, you can take ads in the paper, you know, couple looking for baby, whatever.
Marc:After you get approved.
Marc:After you get approved.
Marc:So you get stamped and then, okay, do what you got to do to find a baby.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But a lot of people will put profiles online and it's just very open.
Guest:You know, photos of yourselves, photos of your family, and you're selling yourselves.
Guest:And there's all sorts of copy and text for...
Guest:people that are adopting their babies to read because they're trying to find a good family and you're selling yourself as this great family.
Guest:And it's so fucking weird.
Guest:It made me very uncomfortable to just put ourselves out there like that so publicly.
Guest:And there was a really, and I always feel like a real just jerk saying this because I don't consider myself famous and I don't consider myself like a known celebrity.
Guest:Right.
Guest:like a part of me felt like, ah, what if it's like some family and they know who I am from Conan and they know where I live?
Guest:Like it made me feel really weird.
Guest:And then I also hated myself for even assuming people would know who I am.
Guest:I'm like, ugh, how am I such an asshole that I even think this is a, why would I, that shouldn't even be a factor.
Guest:What a jerk, you know, so gross.
Guest:But I also felt like I wanted to be somewhat realistic, even though the odds of that are probably huge.
Guest:But still it's like, you never know.
Guest:And just, but for my own experience,
Guest:That just made me a little more uncomfortable about even just putting your information out.
Guest:And we had this person helping us craft the text.
Guest:Like we would submit texts because some of these things are weird.
Guest:And I don't want, you know, it's, you don't want to judge because some of these stories are just heartbreaking.
Guest:It's like of the kid for these families.
Guest:It's like hard not to.
Guest:You mean why they're putting their kid up for adoption?
Guest:No, why people are looking to adopt.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I mean, though the people putting their kids up for an adoption, I mean, I can't even imagine how hard that is.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And for some people, maybe it's not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But you read the stories of like, you see these profiles and, you know, some of them are just kind of weird.
Guest:Some are like, kind of seem like weirdo people.
Guest:Oh, what do you mean?
Guest:Like religious stuff, you know, like we knew it was God's plan for that kind of thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But at the same time, you don't want to judge because people have just tough stories.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Trying to have kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:It's just like online dating.
Guest:You're just putting yourself out there and hoping that it happens.
Guest:And it could take so long.
Guest:But it just made me uncomfortable to just be that open and have photos.
Guest:And this lady that was helping us with our profile, she's a web person.
Guest:She just kept changing the text and just trying to tell us, look, you got to sell yourselves.
Guest:You got to sell this.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:I'm a good dad.
Marc:I'm a good dad.
Guest:I'm telling you, yes.
Guest:There was, we'd write things like John is a blankety blank and this and this and it would come back and it was all written from my wife's perspective because it's like the mom connecting with the mom.
Guest:And there was one thing that this woman helping us wrote like...
Guest:fatherhood is the number one priority in John's life.
Guest:And I'm like, fucking no way.
Guest:This is not who we are.
Guest:This is not me.
Guest:I mean, yes, it's important, but to write that, that's so, it just was gross.
Guest:And she kept writing it really dramatic and flowery and just disgusting to me.
Guest:It was gross and false.
Guest:So we kept telling her, stop doing that, please.
Guest:And finally got it to where we were okay with it.
Guest:You just put up your Conan resume.
Guest:Yeah, I put my resume up.
Guest:I had a great still of me as Wrist Hulk.
Guest:I pixeled my face.
Guest:I'm like, look, if they're going to figure out it's me, let them do the work.
Guest:They'll do the IMDb.
Guest:Let them Google Wrist Hulk.
Guest:Okay, that's the guy.
Guest:Oh, they live in Brooklyn.
Guest:Let's save our money and fly there and take photos of them with the baby.
Guest:And we'll kidnap the baby and get them to pay us money if they want it back.
Guest:Those were my fantasies.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So everybody, John Glazer, victim of the baby con.
Marc:But ultimately you settled on something you were comfortable with.
Guest:Well, we were lucky.
Guest:The way this went down, it happened like came out of nowhere.
Guest:It wasn't like, here's a family.
Guest:Here's the deal.
Guest:You can go fly and meet them.
Guest:Like it all happened not too far outside of New York.
Guest:And it happened really quick.
Guest:And before we didn't even have to put our profile online.
Guest:I was so relieved.
Guest:After all that work.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was very, very happy.
Guest:And now you got your beautiful baby and you're happy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's really incredible.
Guest:She's so cute.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she's really a cute, cute baby.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, and how long has it been now?
Guest:A little over two months.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And it was crazy timing too.
Guest:Like we had, we were in the, and I was always worried it would happen while we were filming Delocated and would I be able to go?
Guest:Would we have to miss an opportunity?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Cause it could take years.
Guest:You just hear these horror stories.
Guest:You gotta do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And thankfully it just all happened.
Guest:Just crazy timing.
Guest:Like, you know, we picked her up the day after we wrapped.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:It was crazy.
Guest:My mom just happened to be in town.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:She was able to come with us and we could take, uh, uh, you know, take, uh, take Nate to take him out of school.
Guest:Um, and just have him, uh,
Guest:be a part of the experience.
Guest:It's okay, man.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I just want to be able to tell the story.
Guest:I'm not ashamed to cry.
Guest:It's hard to get through the story, but it was really just great that he could be there for that moment.
Guest:Because even telling him the day before that we're going to go, you know, it's just trying to explain to your
Guest:child hey we're gonna pick up a baby tomorrow yeah it's so bizarre yeah to try to explain to him what it means and just the fact that he could go and even the age gap you know that he's older and i think could somewhat understand it and be so excited about it yeah and he's probably met adopted kids before right
Marc:I'm not, I feel, I mean, I feel like he has, I'm not sure if he's been aware of it.
Marc:Um, so it's you and your mom and your wife and your kid and you, and, and, and it just, who gives, how does it, who gives you the baby?
Guest:How did we, we got to the hospital and, you know, at this point my wife had been there.
Guest:So the kid was still like, how old was it?
Guest:She was days old.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:yeah i mean it was like a not even a week old wow when we picked her up it's pretty unreal i mean it was incredible we had to scramble to get things you know the room set up and yeah we had nothing because we had just like finished our profile it wasn't even online yet and we had to get you know it was a lot of scrambling like can you pick up nate from school i gotta go to this hospital like calling friends who's got a car seat to take the baby home who's got a co-sleeper
Guest:getting a few clothes just to start, diapers.
Guest:I mean, it was really incredible.
Guest:But it wasn't, because it was our second kid, I think it wasn't as overwhelming.
Guest:I mean, that stuff all happened right away.
Guest:I mean, that's when you realize, and this is also emotion, like your friends just...
Guest:come through for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh, it's so, it's so incredible when you see people just like, don't even worry about it.
Guest:Go.
Guest:We got it.
Guest:People showing up with food.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:God, I mean, it was incredible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really moving.
Marc:I had no idea about Hank Azaria.
Marc:I had no concept of him as a per, as a person.
Marc:And it was a, it was a pretty fucking enlightening conversation.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I've only been married a year.
Guest:My son's four, almost four.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And we've been together for like seven, eight years.
Guest:But, you know, it kind of all hit us fast.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was a little freaked out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, you know what?
Guest:With the kid.
Guest:The whole thing.
Guest:What?
Guest:You know, just like, yes, with the child.
Guest:I'm actually doing a web series soon about five.
Guest:It freaked me out so bad.
Guest:to becoming a father.
Guest:I mean, it's... The story is actually an interesting story.
Guest:We were... Katie and I had been together for a while, and I was more upset... It was less to me about, do we get married, because she didn't really care about that, than, do we have a kid?
Guest:You know, because it's like... Is there a big age difference?
Guest:She's seven years younger than I am.
Guest:Do you talk about your age?
Guest:How old are you?
Guest:You know, I'll be 49 in a week, a week from today, actually.
Guest:Oh, yeah, okay, I'm 49.
Guest:Okay, good, I get it, yeah.
Guest:So, yeah, so this was like...
Guest:What, five, six years ago.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:She was like 36.
Guest:So it's pressing.
Guest:If it was going to happen, it was going to happen then.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she put no pressure.
Guest:She wasn't like, hey, what do we do?
Guest:She was like, I don't know if I want to do this either.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But I was more like, well, if we're going to do this, we should freaking do it now.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I got obsessed with it.
Guest:And I started asking all my friends.
Guest:I have a weekly poker game.
Guest:I love poker.
Guest:I hear about that.
Guest:And I started bugging my friends.
Guest:Like, who are all dads.
Guest:I'm like, what did you guys, did you want it?
Guest:Is that why you got married?
Guest:Because you want kids?
Guest:Did it change your life?
Guest:Is it worth it?
Guest:And they were like, shut up.
Guest:You know, who cares?
Guest:Just have a kid or not.
Guest:We don't give a shit.
Guest:I said, look, if Katie walked in and said she were pregnant, the only thing I'm qualified in life to do is prepare for a role.
Guest:That's all I know how to do.
Guest:So what I would do is follow you morons around.
Guest:What I do when I get a role is I'm playing a baker.
Guest:I go down and look at a baker, what he does for a while.
Guest:Do you really?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, whatever, right?
Guest:I try to talk to somebody like, oh, so this is what it is.
Guest:All right, good.
Guest:And so I follow dads around and say, oh, this is, okay, I get it.
Guest:And my buddy said, you know, that would be a decent documentary.
Guest:Let's just do that.
Guest:And we started doing that.
Guest:I started shooting this kind of angst-ridden, because I don't like kids particularly either.
Guest:You don't?
Guest:I do not.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What do you feel when you're around them exactly?
Guest:Look, I feel the same.
Guest:I'm sure you relate to this.
Guest:I feel the same way about children that I feel about most people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because most of them are fucking annoying.
Marc:They're good for a little while, maybe a couple hours.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then just because they're children.
Guest:George Carlin was very big on this.
Guest:Just because they're kids, this makes them wonderful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They're people.
Guest:And like a lot of people, they can be pains in the ass.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So...
Guest:And I don't, I was very nervous around them and didn't feel like I could relate to them very well.
Guest:I felt much too selfish as a human being to like give to a child.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Marc:That's it with me too.
Marc:You know, and I think that's important.
Marc:That moment where you realize like, you know, I got my own thing going on here.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to give up.
Guest:But it took us a long time to get it to how I like it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But do you feel any guilt about that feeling?
Guest:I felt a lot of guilt, which is why I would be torn about maybe I should have a kid and maybe that would open me up in ways I'm not anticipating.
Guest:How can I use this to my advantage?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And I can play dad's grade after this.
Guest:I'm getting to that age.
Guest:I need that information.
Guest:But so we start shooting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Me going to people and saying, I don't get it.
Guest:I don't like children.
Guest:Why do you want to have them?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we're talking to some famous people and my friends and experts, different people.
Guest:And then my dog of 16 years begins to die.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so.
Guest:That's an old dog.
Guest:She was an old dog.
Guest:And we, you know, that's what was happening.
Guest:So we started shooting that.
Guest:And I had to care for her.
Guest:You know how it gets at the end with your animal.
Guest:You had to care for her so much.
Guest:She was blind and deaf and insane.
Yeah.
Guest:And I had to take care of her all day.
Guest:I come from a euthanizing family.
Guest:You know, I learned my lesson on this.
Guest:You know, you always get it wrong.
Guest:We should have put her down about a month before we did.
Guest:But you can't let go.
Guest:And the doctor's telling you, well, she might, you know, might what?
Guest:She's 16.
Guest:I got angry at the doctor.
Guest:I was like, why would you tell me that this medication might work?
Guest:But anyway, so we're shooting this.
Guest:And...
Guest:And it's the day we decide to put the dog down, which was a big day.
Guest:I'm like, okay, I think we got to stop the fight here.
Guest:We got to call it.
Guest:And Katie, my girlfriend at the time, gets up and throws up.
Guest:I'm like, you're taking this, you're having an odd reaction to this.
Guest:And she kind of gives me a funny look.
Guest:And I said, you know, literally, I'm on the phone.
Guest:I'm calling.
Guest:Can you send someone to put them down?
Guest:Instead of us coming there, we're like arranging all this.
Guest:And I say to her, to me, you seem pregnant.
Guest:Are you pregnant?
Guest:What's going on with you?
Guest:And she just kind of gives me this look like I can't even describe to you.
Guest:Meanwhile, by the way, I'm shooting all this.
Guest:It's on camera.
Guest:You have this.
Guest:And I said, are you pregnant?
Guest:She goes, I don't know.
Guest:I said, well, with that weird insensitivity and almost shock.
Guest:Are you, what is happening?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I was strutting the dog.
Guest:I'm like, what are you, what are you telling me?
Guest:Are you pregnant?
Guest:It was like a Woody Allen moment.
Guest:Like, what are you trying to say to me?
Guest:What's happening here?
Guest:And she goes, maybe I said, well, are you concerned about it?
Guest:She's like, yeah.
Guest:I'm like, well, let's get a test.
Guest:She's like, I have one.
Guest:I said, you're concerned enough that you bought a test.
Guest:She's like, well, did you take it?
Guest:She's like, no.
Guest:I said, well, go fucking take it.
Guest:So she marches off.
Guest:So supportive.
Guest:I'm on the, I know.
Guest:I was freaking out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She marches off.
Guest:I've got a camera in one hand.
Guest:I'm on the phone with my dear friend on the other.
Guest:I'm like, dude, Katie's off taking a pregnancy test.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she comes back.
Guest:It was a very cinematic moment.
Guest:She appears in the kitchen doorway framed very nicely by it.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:Just, yes.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:Cause I'm shooting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sobbing.
Guest:Just nodding.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Nodding.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, okay, we're pregnant.
Guest:My dog's dying.
Guest:Get my feet.
Guest:I'm proud.
Guest:I don't know what's happening.
Guest:And my buddy goes, okay, dude, put down the phone and go hug her.
Guest:And thank God he said that.
Guest:I swear to you, I wouldn't have done it.
Guest:I would have just been like, what the fuck is happening?
Guest:And I'll tell you this.
Guest:And I did.
Guest:And we're shooting this whole thing.
Guest:And in that moment, I had a real, you can't fake this or know what's going to happen.
Guest:I had a genuine burst of joy.
Guest:I was like, yes, I just was happy that she was going to carry my child.
Guest:We were going to do this.
Guest:And listen, I've gotten a couple other women pregnant in the past, and I did not have that moment of joy.
Guest:Or I was scared I would.
Guest:This is going to ruin my life.
Guest:Yes, that was the reaction.
Guest:So I took it like, well, this is probably a good sign.
Guest:And we hugged.
Guest:And then the documentary changed into, we are actually having a baby.
Guest:Oh, my God, what do we do?
Guest:And then now it's morphed into it's going to become a web series.
Marc:But outside of that, you know, that's a profound thing.
Marc:Like, because that moment of joy was something you could never anticipate and was completely antithetical than how your head was working or how you thought you were wired.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:And this wasn't even with the kid coming, having here.
Marc:That must have been a pretty good moment.
Marc:You must have felt like a fucking person.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And, you know, I ran into a friend of mine who said, you know, who I knew a long time ago.
Guest:We were actually, now we have kids.
Guest:And she said, you know,
Guest:it's amazing the kid thing, isn't it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, you become a human being.
Guest:And to extent, I actually do believe that's true.
Marc:So, okay.
Guest:So outside of the documentary... Well, then we... The kid came 10 weeks early.
Guest:And so my whole thing was...
Guest:is this worth it?
Guest:What do you do?
Guest:How do you take care?
Marc:Well, yes, you know, I mean, but you're a guy, you got, you got money for, for miles.
Marc:So that, that, that's out of the, that you're not, it's not a worry.
Marc:No, which is like in my mind, that's my only worry outside of dying.
Guest:It's a genuine concern.
Marc:Right, but you don't have that one, but there's still these other problems.
Guest:But even still, I still thought about it.
Guest:Don't underestimate my selfishness because I had plans for that money.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like what?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You just want to be free to do what you... Let's put it this way.
Guest:And this is going to sound a little obnoxious, but it's true.
Guest:Before I had a wife and a child, I didn't really think about...
Guest:You know, I could never outspend myself.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It wasn't like I was that lucky with the money that it wasn't like a concern.
Guest:I would, you know, do what I wanted to do.
Guest:I know it all fell in the realm.
Guest:It was okay.
Guest:And then there became, you know, with a family and a child...
Guest:And feeding them to and houses and educations and all kinds of things.
Guest:You're like, wow.
Guest:And then, you know, the housing bubble and the economy.
Guest:All of a sudden, I got like sacked out of field goal range, if you will, financially.
Guest:And all of a sudden, like, well, I have to think about this.
Guest:And the whole point of once that kid's born.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What I didn't realize was.
Guest:That you're just, and especially with a preemie who has to be in the hospital for seven weeks.
Guest:Oh, he came early?
Guest:Yeah, two and a half.
Guest:He was only two and a half pounds when he was born.
Marc:How many months in when he came out?
Guest:He was 10 weeks early.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Scary.
Guest:Very scary.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And thank God he's fine now.
Guest:But you get so grateful that they're okay.
Guest:I mean, and your first thought is...
Guest:Oh my God, is he going to be all right?
Guest:And honestly, your second thought is a selfish one.
Guest:It's like, am I going to be all right?
Guest:Like, am I going to be okay to, God forbid, if he needs, if he's a special needs kid or what happens.
Guest:But you had them in the right order.
Guest:You should, you know, reward yourself.
Guest:I did.
Guest:No, I did.
Guest:And I must say it's true.
Guest:I first thought of him like, oh my God, what is he going to go through?
Guest:And listen, people go through all kinds of things.
Guest:But that must have surprised you.
Guest:It did.
Guest:And that's part of the whole journey of this.
Guest:And then you do realize that
Guest:Just for them to be okay, you'll take it.
Guest:You'll do whatever you need to do in exchange for them being all right.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And in a sense, it is, for me anyway, a selfish, egotistical, narcissistic actor.
Guest:It was the only thing that really I can say that he's first, genuinely, in my heart.
Guest:I can't say about anything else.
Marc:So Funches, what can you say about Funches?
Marc:What can you say about Ron Funches?
Marc:He's almost like a mythological creature.
Marc:Was there a time where you had an edge?
Guest:Yeah, certainly.
Guest:Certainly.
Guest:Were you just fucking raging out at the world?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that went away?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was probably, you know, early 20s, mid-20s, just listening to a lot of dead Perez and the coups.
Guest:And just wanting to destroy the government.
Guest:And just, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think that's what me and my ex bonded over was their hatred of everything else around us.
Marc:So when you guys met, you got, it was a lot of anger.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And you just sit there and just talk shit about the world?
Guest:Pretty much.
Guest:And then just, you know, just focus that on everybody else and then eventually on each other.
Guest:And then you had a baby.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:In the middle of all that rage, you had a baby.
Marc:Was that intentional?
Marc:No, of course not.
Marc:And she wanted to have it.
Guest:Yeah, we had, you know.
Marc:Were you married when you... No.
Marc:No?
Guest:But we had been together for long enough that we were like, oh, you know, we can have this baby.
Guest:And he's the best.
Guest:He's been the best thing in my life, for sure.
Guest:What's his name?
Guest:Malcolm.
Guest:Malcolm?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And how old is he now?
Guest:He is 11 years old.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And when did you and her separate?
Yeah.
Guest:We separated two years ago, about.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:When you left?
Guest:A little bit before I left, yeah.
Marc:So what?
Marc:Now, I know the baby's difficult, right?
Marc:What do you mean by that, Mark?
Marc:Well, I talked to you before.
Marc:I've heard you mention the baby.
Marc:We talked about it on the live podcast.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, he's a kid now.
Guest:He's no baby.
Guest:He's almost a man.
Guest:Yeah, but he has autism.
Guest:I'm assuming that's what you mean by that.
Guest:And how does that manifest itself?
Marc:How did you know that?
Guest:Well, originally we thought he was deaf because he just wouldn't respond to things when you called them or when you made noises.
Marc:Well, that must be horrible because how old are you, 20 when you have the kid?
Marc:Mm-hmm, 20.
Marc:20, and you don't have a lot of money.
Marc:Nope.
Marc:You make a decision to have this kid.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Was that a hard decision to make or was that just a no-brainer?
Guest:No, it was a pretty difficult decision to make.
Guest:But it was also like, I mean, we've been together for a while.
Guest:At the time, we loved each other very much.
Guest:And so I was like, let's have this kid.
Guest:We're not, I'll go get a better job.
Guest:I'll go do whatever it takes.
Guest:Is that what you were thinking?
Guest:Yeah, that's what I did.
Guest:What did you do when you had the kid?
Guest:Where'd you work?
Guest:I worked at a bank call center for Wachovia Bank.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Which is now Wells Fargo.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:They're not the same since they changed.
Guest:No, they really changed.
Marc:So you're going to work every day and you're not doing comedy yet?
Marc:No.
Marc:You're just going to work, hating your life.
Marc:Yep.
Guest:But you got a baby.
Guest:Buying a lot of stuff that I don't need.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Trying, wondering why I'm not happy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, so the kid, you think he can't hear and you bring him to the doctor.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:So we bring him to the doctor and we get a lot that he can hear.
Guest:And so they were like, well, we need to do some more tests on him.
Guest:They did some tests on him when he was about two years old.
Guest:And they were like, yeah, he has a classic autism.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:Uh, so basically for him and for, I mean, for a lot of it means like nonverbal, um, a diversion to text, certain textures and noises and lights and, um, you know, just, um, a little development, developmental delays and things of that nature.
Marc:So now you got a job you don't like and you got a kid that's got some problems.
Marc:Life is hard.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what do you do with a kid that has that?
Marc:How did you learn how to deal with it?
Guest:Well, we got, I mean, the best, I mean, once we knew, it became a lot easier.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The hardest part was just being like, what's wrong?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:He won't sleep.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:You know, he would sleep from like 2 a.m.
Guest:to 5 a.m., like seven days a week, and that was it.
Guest:And then he'd be up.
Guest:Up.
Guest:Doing what?
Guest:Singing.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Singing the jungle book.
Guest:Oh, that's pleasant.
Guest:It's pleasant for a few hours.
Marc:so he was on repeat yeah oh yeah jungle book that's what they do that stim behavior right yep stim behavior is that they repeat they find things that they can repeat and comfort them yeah and he would repeat several he watched a jungle book on vcr and just repeat scenes over and over and over
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Is there a way to sort of move new things into the STEM rotation?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you introduce things and you add things, but it's also very rigid.
Guest:You don't want him to freak out.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So it becomes a battle of what you're willing to deal with.
Marc:And over time...
Marc:Does this, how is it, has he, I don't know if the word has gotten better or how does that work?
Guest:Yeah, he's definitely, I mean, it'll always be a thing, but like he's very independent.
Guest:He's, you know, he's not nonverbal, but he's not, he's not completely verbal.
Guest:He does a lot of mimicking.
Guest:He's very good at typing though.
Guest:Like he's just, he's always been like on the internet and typing things out on the computer since he was like two.
Marc:Really?
Marc:So they have a profound focus and intelligence for some things.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah, you get it.
Guest:I kind of get it.
Guest:So there's certain things where they're really awesome at.
Guest:There's certain things that he's normal at, and there's certain things that he has trouble with.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And all those things have remained the same throughout?
Guest:Pretty much.
Guest:He loves cars, racing, computers, doesn't care for baths, or...
Marc:What was the hardest thing sort of in terms of dealing with it?
Marc:Other people.
Marc:Judging?
Guest:Yeah, other people judging.
Guest:Like, why are you so tired all the time?
Guest:Why is your house a mess?
Guest:Why do you always give in to everything he wants?
Guest:Because, like, you know, he'll...
Guest:If he wants something, he wants it.
Guest:He needs it.
Guest:And he will attack you or throw fits until he gets it.
Guest:And so you learn to pick your battles.
Guest:There were several times where people thought we were kidnapping him because he would just wig out because we couldn't afford to buy him something.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's sad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that's what people assume, like, whose child is that?
Marc:Yeah, whose kid is that going off?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you ever have to get into any fights or anything over that shit?
Guest:With him or with people?
Guest:With people.
Guest:No, not with people.
Guest:We had the cops call, you know, a few times.
Guest:Because he's making noise?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:God, that's hard, man.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, even now, if I go visit him or we go somewhere together in a hotel, I have to let them know ahead of time.
Guest:Just be like, don't put us near somebody else.
Guest:Do you have a bungalow situation?
Guest:Is there a cottage?
Guest:When you come up to tell us about a noise complaint, I'm not going to be nice to you.
Marc:That's a hell of a burden to have.
Marc:But I imagine that the relationship...
Marc:You start to understand each other, huh?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That's been, I mean, that's the coolest part of it was like learning like, oh, I don't have to talk.
Guest:Talking's overrated.
Guest:I can hang out with you all day and not talk and we can get things done and I know what you want for dinner and I know what you're asking me off of like glances or different things.
Guest:And again, like he was the one where, like I always knew I wanted to be a comedian.
Guest:I always knew what I wanted and I was afraid and I didn't think that it was normal or possible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and what having him was like for two reasons i was like hey he's not going to be a typical normal kid and i have to defend that so i should be able to defend what i'm about and then also it was like i'm gonna need to make money and i don't want to put him in a home and i don't i know i'm not gonna be alive forever and he may need care forever
Guest:And so it was like, I have to do something.
Guest:So I either have to go back to college and figure out something that I like, or I need to really do this thing that I feel that I have a calling for, which even looking back now, knowing that it's kind of working out still sounds stupid.
Guest:but it's a hell of a decision to make yeah and your wife was okay with it or yeah well she just knew that it was what i wanted to do and that that it was the i mean that's what we did was just watch comedy and talk does she do stand-up no uh no she just is a a regular lady she writes some funny things she's a funny person but she just she's a civilian god that's a hell of a choice man
Marc:This is the show.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:Some of you might be new to it because Matt Damon is the guest.
Marc:Have you ever had that situation where you're stuck on a set and you're like, what is this gonna?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I've, without naming the movie, I've had, you know, I consider that, actually, I came to consider that to be the definition of a professional actor.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:Is knowing you're in a turkey.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And going like, all right.
Guest:All right.
Guest:I got four more months of like 15 hours a day.
Guest:It's like it's the up at dawn siege for four months on like on Hamburger Hill.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I'm definitely going to die here.
Guest:But knowing it's not going to be great.
Guest:yeah yeah it's that's that's as shitty as you can feel creatively i think and that's a long four months right yeah yeah i can't it's it's awful yeah i it's a feeling i really hope to avoid i hope to never have that feeling i think you maybe you're past it but you don't know i mean sometimes like the pedigree can be great and you get there and you're like that's the thing you're only i mean it's what i say to my daughter who gives me shit all the time i'm like we don't get to see the movie before we make it
Marc:Why is she giving you shit?
Guest:Oh, she's just fucking funny.
Marc:She just likes giving me shit.
Marc:Is she hard on you about your acting?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, playfully hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She doesn't go to see my movies.
Guest:On purpose.
Guest:On purpose.
Guest:On the ones she thinks might be good.
Guest:How old is she?
Guest:15.
Guest:But she's like, she crushes me on the ones that don't work.
Guest:I mean, and she's just really funny.
Guest:So I'm like- You let her do it?
Guest:You just take it?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean- Like what?
Marc:Like, what does she say?
Guest:Like on which movies?
Guest:So I did a movie called The Great Wall, which- All right, you got a little flack for that?
Marc:Were you playing an Asian guy?
Guest:No, no, I was playing a European guy.
Marc:What was the flack?
Marc:I don't remember.
Guest:The flack was when the poster came out, there was a lot of kind of like, what is he doing on the Great Wall?
Guest:And is this cultural appropriation?
Guest:I, you know, look, I know I saw we saw the movie is it's it's the exact same plot as Lawrence of Arabia dances with wolves.
Guest:Avatar.
Guest:It's outsider comes into a culture, finds value in the culture, brings some skill from the outside that aids them in their fight against whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're all changed forever.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Look, for me, it was like Zhang Yimou, who was one of my favorite directors in the world and whose movies I love, came to LA and said, do you want to be in my movie?
Guest:And I'm like, are you kidding me?
Guest:You're going to do like your avatar.
Guest:Like, yeah.
Guest:Shit, yeah.
Guest:I'd love to do that.
Guest:Did it do well?
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:No, it didn't.
Guest:There was a point a little ways into that movie where I had to speak through a translator with him because I speak no Mandarin and he speaks no English.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we had this great translator named Frank.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, Frank, in this scene, I'm supposed to do this, but can you ask the director?
Guest:This doesn't feel right, and can he help me understand whatever it was?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so Frank translates, and Jean-Yemo comes back, and Frank says, yes, the director agrees with you, but says, since this is a Hollywood movie, and I was like, oh, God, no.
Guest:No.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:And it was this thing where he was consciously making a Hollywood movie.
Guest:What he perceived to be a Hollywood movie and what his Hollywood partners perceived that had convinced him that they wanted.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was like this.
Guest:And I was like, this is exactly how disasters happen.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was like, Frank, please tell him I came here to be in one of his movies.
Guest:And how'd that go?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, it just was the train had left the station.
Guest:And that movie, at any rate, whatever.
Guest:It's one of those movies where you go, you look at the ingredients.
Guest:The keys of every department are some of the best in the business.
Guest:So the production designer, really, really boss people with this world-class director at the helm.
Guest:And I go, I'm in.
Guest:And it's an experience.
Guest:It's like, I'm going to go to China.
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:This is going to be amazing.
Guest:But it doesn't cohere.
Guest:It doesn't work as a movie.
Guest:And your daughter knows that.
Guest:And my daughter really knows it.
Guest:And so she's talking about the movie, she calls it The Wall.
Guest:And when people are like, when we have people over for dinner, I'm like, come on, it's called The Great Wall.
Guest:And she's like, Dad, there's nothing great about that movie.
Guest:So she's really funny, and she's like one of the funniest people I know, which has turned me into that kid who gets bullied, who's like, nice burn.
Guest:Two is bully.
Marc:You've got three daughters?
Guest:I've got, well, four.
Guest:So when I met my wife, she'd been married before me, and she had a four-year-old.
Guest:That's a lot of kids.
Guest:That's a lot of kids.
Guest:That four-year-old is now 23, so that went fast.
Guest:Today, I talked to Bill Burr.
Marc:You know, he's been on several times over the years.
Guest:But you saw the parallel universe where you're having a healthy life.
Guest:Yeah, not in show business, not needing to get on a stage being, hey, look at me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I don't know where the fuck that goes.
Guest:But then, yeah, so then I, you know, I will say every time I feel like, you know, okay, I've dug it all out and now we can start building a new house, I find there's another –
Guest:level or area or whatever.
Guest:I mean, it's a lot of shit.
Guest:I mean, it was 50 years.
Guest:Look, as bad enough as it is for me, it's worse for the people around me.
Guest:So that was really the motivation because I love my wife to death.
Guest:I obviously love my kids to death.
Guest:And the one thing I am proud of is my kids are not afraid of me.
Guest:I've probably overcorrected.
Guest:But yeah, I come home, they treat me like a fucking bouncy house.
Guest:They're just jumping all over me and everything.
Guest:And
Guest:We have all these games that I play.
Guest:Most of them just involve me chasing them around the house.
Guest:How old are they?
Guest:About to be eight and four and a half.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So, you know, my daughter's to the point now where she reads to me.
Guest:She reads me Captain Underpants, a chapter of Captain Underpants.
Guest:And what I love is she loves jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how they write that book.
Guest:The chapter ends...
Guest:you know, with a setup and then the name of the next chapter is the punchline.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So like the guy would be like going, no, we covered our tracks.
Guest:There's no way we're going to get busted.
Guest:Chapter eight, busted.
Guest:And she just thinks, you know, in her seven year old brain, and then she read it like five times and be like busted.
Guest:And she'd make like this face when she did it.
Guest:And she was totally getting into it.
Guest:And, you know, my son's like really into music, like loves ACDC and stuff.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You showed me that video.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's the best.
Guest:Him doing the Chuck Berry via Angus dance.
Guest:Yeah, he can do the duck walk.
Guest:It's amazing.
Marc:When you talk about like that thing you said on Kimmel last night about how like what you're mad about is something much bigger that you think is going to like consume you if you, you know, take it on.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:Do you feel that... You know what that is, though, right?
Marc:Mostly?
Marc:What that thing is?
Marc:Is it just your family?
Guest:Well, and it's also the powerlessness, powerless feeling of being a kid if you're not being listened to.
Guest:And that's what ends up happening.
Guest:If you're not being listened to and bad shit's happening to you and stuff, you just eventually...
Guest:And that's kind of how you stop emoting because no one's listening.
Guest:And then you also shut down stuff because, you know, stuff is hurting you.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So then you just sort of become like you get the 600-yard stare, the kid version of it.
Guest:And that was a lot of my friends.
Guest:A lot of my friends are like that.
Guest:And it's kind of funny.
Marc:It's a neighborhood thing almost.
Guest:Well, I mean, I go around and I do shows.
Guest:And, you know, my whole graduation class, like everybody has really interesting jobs and really cool to see them again.
Guest:run into a lot of them.
Guest:And there's a couple of people where like, you know, you start having like family envy when you feel yours is a little weird.
Guest:And then I ended up finding like, wow, it was very similar or it was like, oh, it was a little different or it was worse or whatever.
Guest:So, but that's one of those things where
Guest:So it's not like fair to my parents or anybody else who is bringing me up or something.
Guest:It's not like I'm shitting on my parents, but it's just like they were my universe.
Guest:So like the importance of things.
Guest:Like when your kid comes up to me like going, you know, hey, dad, you said you were going to play with me and you're staring at your phone.
Guest:It's like that's a big deal.
Guest:And you got to go put it down.
Guest:Like, fuck, man.
Guest:Like, this is making this person feel like you're not worth my time.
Marc:That's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're good.
Marc:You're catching all this now.
Marc:Because, like, I took a different approach in jokes with my parents.
Marc:Like, I used to do that bit about, like, you know when your parents say we did the best we could.
Marc:And they didn't.
Marc:They didn't know what they were doing.
Marc:And you don't have to take that shit.
Marc:You didn't do the best you could.
Marc:I can accept that.
Marc:But you didn't even try, really.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, well, look, each situation is unique.
Guest:But I've interacted with you enough to know that they didn't try.
Marc:They left me untethered.
Guest:I think that that's why you're a cat person.
Guest:I grew up with dogs.
Guest:I got dogs.
Guest:I think a dog would be too fucking needy and consuming.
Guest:And like you, you probably grew up isolated and you vibe with cats was kind of like, Hey man, sometimes I want to be on top of you.
Guest:Other times I just want to get the fuck out of here.
Guest:That's right.
Marc:Go kill something.
Marc:We had a lot of dogs.
Marc:We, I grew up with a lot of dogs and it's just the same reason I have kids.
Marc:I don't trust my emotional construct not to be selfish and feel that like, hey, more people should do that.
Guest:Because a lot of people just have a kid because they think they should be doing it.
Guest:And you really have to want to do it.
Guest:And you have to love the job.
Guest:And you have to want to help try to form an empathetic adult on the other side is what you're –
Guest:hoping to uh come out with but like you know um you know i i got i have um you know i listen to my kids though like like when they're upset like i everything stops and i sit down and i listen to them you know even if i don't agree with them being like well you can't do that you can't have every toy or whatever they're doing and then there's other times it's like all right you're right i shouldn't have done that like i remember like when i knew i was changing it
Guest:My daughter was only three.
Guest:She was so cute.
Guest:Maybe even less than that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she came up to me.
Guest:There was something that was bothering her.
Guest:And I sat down on the stairs.
Guest:I said, what's bothering you?
Guest:And she walked up to me and us spontaneously, not even thinking we both held hands while she talked to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, that never happened.
Yeah.
Guest:when I was growing up.
Guest:That never happened to anybody in my fucking generation.
Guest:Maybe Italians.
Guest:Italians are really good with, like, emotion.
Guest:Like, I always got along with Italians because I was just like, these people, like, as much as they're fucking yelling at each other, I hear love in there.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Where, like, you know, my fucking Aryan Northern European shit is just like... What do you think?
Marc:It's just Irish Catholic?
Guest:Dude, I'm German.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I am a gumbo of shutdown nationalities.
Guest:Irish, Scottish, English, German, mostly German.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:French and Dutch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, as much as I love French culture and everything, there is, I can't tell because maybe it's just Paris or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It sort of has that Manhattan coldness to it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Career, then kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And no God.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:You know, the Manhattan vibe.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But it's good that you can identify in that moment when you're holding hands and that you can, you know, be present for the love from her and you.
Marc:And, you know, it's good.
Marc:As opposed to like... No, I say that.
Guest:I said, you know, absolutely.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And...
Guest:Like, you know, and then you start having more than one.
Guest:They have like disagreements.
Guest:You become like Judge Wapner.
Guest:You got to make sure that you're not favoring either one of them or anything.
Guest:Like I make, you know, I do that.
Guest:Like my son learned, does something.
Guest:Oh, that's great.
Guest:And I'll ask my daughter, did you teach him how to do that?
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:Like I just, I make sure.
Guest:Balance it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I make sure I balance it.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:I'm with my dad.
Marc:I'm looking at pictures.
Marc:Do you know what this is?
Guest:National Honor Society.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that your name?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:You were in the National Honor Society.
Marc:Do you remember it?
Guest:Not really.
Marc:That's a Christmas card from you to your mother, which I think was interesting because, you know, being Jewish and everything.
Marc:But apparently, you know, the Jesus was powerful back then, too.
Marc:And apparently you drew a picture.
Marc:Look at the front of it.
Marc:It's a little Christmas tree.
Marc:I don't know if I would expect you to remember that.
Guest:Where'd you find all this stuff?
Marc:You know, I don't know why I had it.
Marc:You know, I was going through, I guess I'm not unlike you, I'm losing my mind.
Marc:So I went up to look for my diploma.
Marc:Because I need it for something.
Marc:Can't find it.
Marc:And I found this envelope of pictures that I don't remember.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:Do you know who that is?
Marc:Barbara.
Marc:It's Barbara?
Marc:Who's that, your cousin?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Alice's daughter.
Marc:So that's your cousin, first cousin.
Guest:Yeah, first cousin.
Marc:So you remember that, huh?
Marc:How about this one?
Marc:What do you know about that?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:My fraternity.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:ZBT.
Guest:ZBT.
ZBT.
Guest:You remember all those guys?
Guest:I do.
Guest:I do remember those guys.
Guest:Dombrowski was married to a very bright lady.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She committed suicide.
Guest:Well, wasn't that bright.
Guest:No.
Guest:This is Al Benstock.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jerry Lockage.
Guest:He died.
Guest:He had cardiac arrest.
Guest:And Dave Nakamson and, oh, I can't think of this kid's name.
Guest:Something Jacobs.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Anyway.
Marc:You don't talk to any of those guys anymore?
Guest:No.
Guest:He had a seizure.
Guest:Jacobs?
Guest:Yeah, he had a seizure during class one day.
Guest:Was he all right?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, but that sort of brought it to the attention of the doctors that he was in trouble.
Marc:Well, epilepsy?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Look at this one.
Marc:1939.
Marc:Little baby Barry.
Marc:What does it feel like to look at that?
Marc:Look at that.
Marc:You were a baby once.
Marc:One years old.
Marc:That's crazy.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Sure is.
Marc:That's a good one.
Marc:Do you remember this dog?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Penny.
Marc:When did you have that dog?
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Guest:But I remember him.
Guest:Penny, Penny, Penny.
Marc:Look at this.
Guest:Eleanor.
Marc:That's your mom, right?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:How about this one?
Marc:That's Grandma.
Marc:Ida.
Marc:Do you remember her?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Was she a nice lady?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did she talk much?
Marc:I don't remember her talking.
Yeah.
Marc:Was Barney her husband?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was he a character?
Marc:I didn't know him.
Marc:You didn't?
Marc:He was dead already?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't remember.
Marc:I love this picture.
Guest:It's Ben.
Marc:Your dad?
Marc:My dad.
Marc:Looks good in that pic, huh?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:You remember him talking much?
Guest:Uh, yeah, more or less.
Marc:Remember, it was this, look at this picture.
Marc:Were you, that was when you were a lifeguard?
Guest:Keppel Park, probably.
Marc:You're doing pretty good with this quiz of your life.
Marc:It's a dementia test.
Yeah.
Guest:Who's this lady?
Guest:That's Phyllis.
Guest:Your cousin?
Guest:Nope.
Guest:Neighbor.
Guest:Phyllis Saskin.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:You remember her?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Did you have a crush on her?
Guest:No.
Guest:She was a few years older than I was.
Guest:That's the little dog.
Guest:Penny?
Guest:No, another one.
Guest:Inky.
Guest:Inky?
Yeah.
Guest:Whose dog was Inky?
Guest:I was mine.
Guest:My dad took him down, took him out and turned him loose on Hudson Boulevard in a grassy area.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he got killed.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Hit by a car?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In front of you?
Marc:No.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Look at this picture.
Marc:That's a nice baseball hat.
Guest:That's me.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:I was skinny, didn't I?
Marc:Yeah, really skinny.
Marc:Look at this.
Marc:You're on a pony.
Guest:Do you remember that?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:You do?
Guest:No.
Marc:I don't remember that.
Marc:I don't know what this is, but I think...
Marc:I think this might be your valedictorian speech.
Marc:Is it possible?
Marc:Throughout the history of the world and the pursuit of knowledge, learning?
Guest:Learning is a habit to most alert individuals.
Guest:And even the slow person cannot but help absorbing something new in the course of his everyday activities.
Guest:Deep stuff.
Marc:Is that your valedictorian speech?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:Yet, one really stops to think that this habit of learning is what makes the world advance.
Guest:The honorable truth is that our world will end of learning ceases.
Guest:A world of such calamity...
Guest:will most likely never occur.
Guest:It's happening now.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:The source of learning is the inciting force of the drama of life.
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:Somebody must have helped me with this one.
Guest:Shit.
Guest:This doesn't sound like me.
Guest:Is it your writing?
Guest:It is my writing.
Guest:Maybe you were smarter then.
Yeah.
Marc:It must be a valedictorian speech.
Guest:You think?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How come I didn't do better?
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:How much better could you have done?
Guest:I mean, how come I didn't become something good?
Guest:You became a doctor, wasn't it?
Guest:BFD, right?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:What else would you have become?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:That's what we were prepared for at that time.
Guest:Face tomorrow with the confidence, understanding and fearlessness of man, of a man or woman.
Guest:It is not for us mortals to question the miracles of the human mind and the powers of learning.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Good job.
Marc:Is it emotional?
Guest:No.
Guest:What does it say?
Guest:What does that say?
Guest:It is only for us to be thankful to God for such...
Guest:A mechanism and such a powerful ability.
Guest:Stepping into a future filled with uncertainty can be optimistic.
Guest:Hold my head up and walk proudly forward because I have a solid basis for a conference hyphen education.
Guest:As valedictorian, yeah.
Guest:June 1956, it is my sad and singular honor to have the help of God.
Guest:The help of God.
Guest:What was he supposed to say?
Guest:The help of God.
Guest:It is the greeting of a bright and prosperous future.
Guest:There you go.
Marc:You and God did it.
Marc:That was great.
Marc:I feel uplifted.
Marc:When you read that, you don't remember doing it?
Marc:No.
Guest:Not at all.
Marc:Zero.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But you just did it.
Marc:You traveled back in time.
Marc:You did the speech again.
Marc:That was probably the first.
Marc:I'd imagine that's the second time you did it.
Marc:You're only the second time.
Marc:When was that?
Marc:1950, what?
Marc:Six?
Marc:Six.
Marc:And then you went off to college?
Guest:I was placed in 60.
Marc:Yeah, so right away.
Marc:Right there.
Marc:Good times.
Marc:Well, that was exciting.
Marc:Dad, it seems like you're okay.
Marc:I think you're just fooling everybody with this.
Marc:With this thing.
Marc:It's all a ruse.
Marc:I'm glad you remember the dog, both of them.
Guest:Inky.