BONUS The Friday Show - I'm Super, Thanks for Asking
Guest:That one with Brandon Ruth.
Guest:What is even the name of it?
Guest:Superman what?
Guest:Returns.
Guest:Returns.
Guest:God, I couldn't even think of it.
Guest:Hey, Chris.
Guest:Hello, Brendan.
Guest:We're recording this usually in the afternoon or so.
Guest:It's evening time, but I don't know.
Guest:Did you have dinner yet?
Marc:I did not have dinner.
Guest:Well, maybe you would like to make a little chicken cutlet for dinner in tribute to Tommy Cutlet from the New York Giants.
Guest:Oh, he got cut, right?
Guest:Has been cut.
Guest:Yeah, the cut cutlet.
Yeah.
Marc:I'm going to cut chicken cutlets out of my diet then.
Guest:There you go.
Marc:No more.
Guest:It's a deep cut for you longtime Friday show listeners here.
Guest:We had a long discussion about Tommy DeVito, the flash-in-the-pan quarterback of the New York Giants and basically Italian-American brownface guy.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Uh, the short circuit of, uh, of, uh, Italian Americans.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I guess he would be like, it would be like red sauce face would be like what he was doing.
Guest:Uh, so yes.
Guest:RIP Tommy DeVito.
Guest:I mean, he's alive.
Guest:I think he's on the Patriots.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He'll be on some other team with some other weird fan base thinking he's awesome for his love of chicken cutlets.
Guest:That was the kind of one thing I noticed that got my attention and made me laugh this past week.
Guest:How about you?
Guest:We haven't talked in a little while.
Marc:We haven't talked in a while.
Marc:What's her name?
Marc:Taylor Swift got engaged.
Marc:She sure did.
Marc:That's exciting.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:Was Mark excited?
Guest:He, he was the one who told me the news.
Guest:You're kidding.
Guest:No, I, I was working.
Guest:I got a text that said, hang on, I'll pull it up here.
Guest:Taylor and Travis are engaged.
Guest:Double exclamation point.
Guest:Ooh, two exclamation points.
Guest:And I looked at it and I was like, am I supposed to know who this, like these people that we know?
Guest:Taylor.
Guest:Are these just cats?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:What?
Guest:Like, like I'm like running immediately through my head of like who we work with or someone that like we've talked about that I have to know.
Guest:And then it clicked in and I wrote back.
Guest:I literally had no idea who you were talking about for five seconds.
Guest:I consider that a victory.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he wrote congratulations.
Guest:So, yes, that was my interaction with the Taylor Swift, Travis Kelsey engagement.
Guest:And then I had zero further interaction with that.
Marc:You haven't seen the post or anything?
Guest:I saw the pictures.
Guest:Someone sent me the picture of... Our friend Kevin sent me the pictures of them getting engaged next to the picture of...
Guest:I think you should leave with the engagement park that keeps getting invaded by pro wrestlers who think the ground is so soft.
Guest:And they're like, look, she got engaged here.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:His brother could run in with his luchador mask.
Marc:It'd be great.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, I'm glad someone had a good week.
Marc:I did not have a very good week at all.
Guest:Why?
Marc:It was just, it was crappy.
Marc:Let me tell you.
Marc:So since we last spoke, I got sick on a business trip to Boston.
Marc:And you ever get sick in the summer?
Marc:Yeah, summer colds suck.
Marc:It just, I just feel incompetent.
Guest:Did you have COVID or just a cold?
Marc:Which by the way, love that I have all these COVID tests that I can check.
Marc:Why don't we have tests for like colds?
Marc:Like I wish I could test that, but no, I just had a cold.
Marc:I think I'm still getting over it, Ana.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I can hear it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And so that was that.
Marc:And then my wife's uncle got shot in Ecuador.
Marc:Pardon?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He got shot in Ecuador in what I can only describe to you as a Batman origin story situation.
Guest:Well, immediately I'm starting to wonder.
Guest:I'm like, is her uncle from Romancing the Stone?
Guest:Is he an adventurer?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:i mean he would be was he's trying to was he trying to like rescue a precious idol yes his wife oh man oh no i don't mean to joke because no uh everyone's okay first of all so but like the guy grabbed uh r.a and kathleen uh wanted to get her bag uncle rob grabbed the guy this was just on like a tourist trip
Marc:Just on a trip, he was on his way to the Galapagos Islands, which I've been to and are very lovely, and he's unfortunately not going to be able to get there.
Guest:Oh, man.
Marc:But he got shot in the stomach.
Marc:My aunt Kathleen distracted the guy with her necklace, and he ripped it off of her neck, and he raced away, but basically saved their life.
Guest:Wait, wait, wait.
Guest:She distracted him with the neck?
Guest:Did she literally just go like, here, here, here, like bingle, jingle, like jingle your keys?
Marc:Like a dog, yes.
Marc:yeah oh my god yeah and so he's all stitched up he has like staples in his stomach and uh so yeah he how old is he he's like oldish like 65 70 oh my god a gut shot yeah man so that wasn't great uh then i got a message on instagram informing me that my childhood friend thomas uh died
Guest:Oh, man, that's sad.
Guest:Is this someone you had known, like, from, like, elementary school?
Marc:No, it was someone I knew from, like, college and, like, high school.
Marc:Like, you know, working together at Old Navy.
Guest:A friend, like a contemporary, though.
Guest:Aged contemporary.
Marc:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:That's the thing, man.
Guest:Like, you know, getting a time where you're like, wait, people our age, they're dying.
Marc:Yep, and this is the first time for me.
Marc:Like, I haven't had this happen to me.
Marc:And it was...
Marc:It was brutal.
Marc:It was brutal, man.
Marc:Not sure what happened to him.
Marc:He was found in his bathroom by his neighbor.
Marc:His head was injured from a fall.
Marc:They took him to a hospital.
Marc:His mom flew down from Staten Island.
Marc:He was living in Arkansas.
Marc:And she spent the night there, and he died in the hospital there.
Marc:And it sucks.
Marc:His name was Tom and he was my friend in my teens.
Marc:And like I said, we worked together at Old Navy.
Marc:He was like part of like my crew, you know?
Marc:It was like Bob, Tom, Allison, and me.
Marc:And we just spent many nights just hanging out, doing stupid stuff, like teen stuff, you know?
Marc:And like, yeah.
Marc:I wouldn't say I was a good friend of his, which is why it's like kind of, you know, not awkward, just like kind of weird to like be talking about him.
Marc:Like, I wish I was better friends with him.
Guest:But I mean, that's the thing.
Guest:At this point in our lives, these things move away from us quite frequently.
Guest:You know, it's just the way it's been for anyone throughout time.
Guest:But it's this, you know, era that we're in probably like the last 20 years or so where...
Guest:Even with distance, geography, just lack of contact and that, you still have tabs on people pretty closely because of the connectivity that we have out there.
Guest:So, you know, this is a common occurrence to be like, oh, like, you know, I think about it a lot.
Guest:Like people like my parents age or even, you know, maybe even a little younger than them.
Guest:They didn't have this situation.
Guest:Like if they went to high school with somebody that they were friends with and then they lost touch, they probably never heard from them ever again.
Guest:You know, that kind of thing.
Guest:So it is, you know, the fact that we have a lot of tendrils out there where you can always kind of find somebody and someone can find you and tell you, you know, I have sad news.
Marc:Or as my parents did, they would like...
Marc:look at the newspaper and go to the obituaries.
Marc:That was like a regular occurrence in my life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, yeah.
Marc:But, but yeah, you know, and he was, he was great, man.
Marc:He loved Radiohead and animals.
Marc:He was a great photographer.
Marc:Like he moved out to Portland with my friend Bob and like, I went and visited him a few times.
Marc:He had substance use issues that he was dealing with, and he was in the program.
Marc:And the last time I spoke to him, I spoke to him on Instagram, and it was like to wish him a happy birthday, which is coming up actually in September.
Marc:And he made a comment about us being in our 40s, and I told him I never thought I'd make it this long.
Marc:And he said, you and me both.
Marc:And those were the last words I said to him.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, it's like, I am thinking back to, you know, listening to that episode with Regina King.
Guest:And it's like, this is something we start to deal with more as we get older, obviously.
Guest:And, you know, as people close to us die and we have to, you know, just kind of live with whatever the ramifications of that are.
Guest:You know, it is something where you start to learn,
Guest:I'm going to have to let these things exist together.
Guest:Like the happy and the sad, they've got to go together because you can't survive with just sitting in either one of them, right?
Guest:If you're just like, I'm going to...
Guest:I'm going to move past this.
Guest:I'm going to push it all down.
Guest:I'm going to stay positive.
Guest:That's going to come back and bite you.
Guest:And if you go the other way and just fall into yourself, then what's the point of anything?
Guest:So you just really have to kind of, you know, you take it as like, this is a thing that happens.
Guest:It happens to everybody.
Guest:But you also...
Guest:take the time to feel your feelings about the sadness of it, you know?
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:And I was definitely in my feelings this week.
Marc:And I turned on your podcast and I listened to the Lynn Shelton Remembrance episode.
Marc:Oh, no kidding.
Marc:And it helped, man.
Marc:It helps to hear Mark being so vulnerable and honest, but also to hear Lynn talk and hear her story from the source, you know?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:People in her life can go back and listen to that episode and hear her talk and hear her story from her, you know, not secondhand, not from a friend of a friend, like from her, you know?
Marc:And that's like the gift that you and Mark, you know, gave us and everyone that has ever been on this show.
Marc:Like the tentacles go like far and wide.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's, I mean, obviously, like, something like that is really great.
Guest:It's a great byproduct of what we did.
Guest:But I just, you know, I credit Mark fully.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Even on, even he was just saying in one of the monologues, like, the thing to keep up is this human connection.
Guest:You just got to keep it going and figure out ways to do that.
Guest:And I am glad that a lot of the show, the vast majority of the show, will exist in that way for, like, you know, evergreen purposes, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:Dude, I called my friend Bob.
Marc:I had to break the news to him and I haven't talked to Bob in like a decade.
Marc:And, you know, he was, he was like the closest of our group to Tom.
Marc:And I told him afterwards, I was like, look, I don't want this to be our last phone call.
Marc:Cause like, you just never know when it's going to be the last phone call.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, you know, we, we all have lives and we're all different, but like,
Marc:I mean, I just want to be in, you know, his life and the people that I've once had connections with.
Marc:I want to still have at least even a tiny bit of connection, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It just, you know...
Guest:Unfortunately, it usually takes something, you know, negative or sad or tragic to remind us of this stuff, but don't ignore the reminder.
Guest:That's how I feel.
Guest:It's like, you don't have to feel like negative about that.
Guest:You just go, okay, that's like, this kind of knocks me straight a little bit and I'll...
Guest:I got to keep myself, I got to remind myself, stay in touch, stay in contact, reach out, see how people are.
Guest:Because yeah, there's no guarantees for any of us, buddy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, I got to say with Jeremy Allen White, it was so great to hear him tell his family's story and like who mentored him at MS51.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which, by the way, is not a gang.
Marc:It's right by me.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:Oh, no kidding.
Marc:Yeah, we live right near there.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:And like, but do you know how like so unique that is that someone gets to tell that story?
Marc:Like, it's like you and fresh air maybe.
Marc:And I think that's it.
Marc:Like, there's not too many outlets where a person can come on and talk openly about where his family came from and what, you know, inspired them and who inspired them.
Marc:And man, Tavergina King...
Marc:and like was able to speak so openly about losing her son and like Mark's, like, like to talk about it in such an intelligent and open way was just so uplifting and just made me, it always just gives me hope, you know, that the, you know, these shows with Mark, they always just seem to give me, give me hope.
Guest:Yeah, I'm glad that we can still do these things even as we wind things down.
Guest:As Mark has said many times, there's no phoning it in.
Guest:So we're going to keep doing these as we only know how to do.
Guest:And when guests like that come on, you know, like, okay, well, if you want to go there with things, you could go there.
Guest:And it was with both of those guests.
Guest:They both had things that they are not...
Guest:I'm super comfortable talking about.
Guest:I just know that from the research that I did on both of them and from, you know, talking to their publicists and nobody was like restricting what we did or said, but there was like, it was like, they might not want to get into, like, they might just straight up tell you.
Guest:And I, in fact, I thought with Jeremy Allen White,
Guest:that he did say something during the talk with mark you know mark presented some question to him and he said you know i'm not really comfortable getting into that without my ex-wife being able to give her side of it right like it was a very like wise way to deal with something where there's another person involved and i just thought that was going to be his kind of like way of handling the whole thing and
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like if Mark was like, so did you, you know, find yourself getting in trouble with alcohol or substances or whatever?
Guest:I thought he was going to say, you know, well, yes, but it's that's a family story.
Guest:And I'd rather keep it there.
Guest:And the fact that he was open about it.
Guest:you know, it, it meant something to me.
Guest:Like it was like, and it's, it was the same thing with Regina.
Guest:She said that to Mark, you know, she said like, thank you for having this be a safe space for me to do this.
Guest:You know, like I'm not going to just do this anywhere.
Guest:So yeah, that stuff's really, you know, it's really meaningful.
Guest:And I, I, I appreciate that you, you took a lot from it this week.
Guest:I hope it did bring you a little solace and,
Marc:Yeah, it did.
Marc:And, you know, the overall arc of Mark is still intact, you know, throughout these episodes.
Marc:Like Jeremy Allen White was telling Mark about panic attacks and Mark was like, well, did you fix it?
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:He wants to know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, oh, you solved the puzzle.
Marc:that I've been searching for.
Marc:Like it's on a blackboard in a MIT hallway.
Marc:It's like, oh, what was it?
Marc:What was it?
Marc:And like, it's so Mark.
Marc:And honestly, it's all of us, you know?
Marc:Like I just looking for all these answers, like hoping this could be the missing piece of the puzzle.
Marc:Like I just loved it.
Marc:And like, man, there were so many little tidbits in the Virginia King episode.
Marc:Like we all share a smile, love, but we don't all share grief together.
Marc:Like, that was beautiful.
Marc:You know, there are so many of them.
Marc:Like, depression doesn't look like people who are walking around sad.
Marc:It isn't.
Marc:Like, grief is love that doesn't have anywhere else to go.
Marc:Like, these are very eloquent people.
Marc:And it's nice to...
Marc:hear people, eloquent people talk.
Guest:And give them the time to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:So yeah, it was a rough week for me, but I am very glad I had your show to listen to, and of course, family and friends to talk to.
Guest:Yeah, well, I wonder, though, did you... We haven't talked on this show in two weeks since the episodes we recorded.
Guest:Did you get to listen to the Ben Stiller one?
Guest:I sure did.
Guest:After our Tropic Thunder conversation?
Marc:I sure did.
Marc:Really, really fantastic stuff.
Guest:I just love how much Tropic Thunder still comes up.
Guest:It really is like, you know, he knows it, man.
Guest:He knows, like, oh, yeah, this is part of my legacy.
Marc:What, 100%?
Marc:Like, I'm not... Like, what are you...
Marc:In his obituary, I don't think Tropic Thunder would be the very first thing, but it sure as hell will be in there.
Guest:Yeah, for sure.
Marc:That is a defining thing.
Marc:And I got to say, Brendan, you kind of broke me in a way.
Marc:When you were saying that, oh, you can't stand shows that go on and on and on, I don't...
Marc:I didn't feel this way going in, but after the ending of Severance season two, I was like, oh, that was great.
Marc:Let's never have another one.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Let's like end it there because it was great.
Marc:And no, there's going to be another season, which is great, you know.
Guest:My favorite part of that interview was, you know, Mark hedging so much about talking about Severance because you know that he just wants to be like, God fucking, where is it going?
Guest:Or whatever.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then when he says, like, all right, so season three, let's lay it all out right now.
Guest:And Ben Stiller goes, why?
Guest:You're not going to watch it.
Marc:Love that.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:I was kind of, like, very tickled by that interview.
Guest:Like, it was, you know, for a guy who...
Guest:was one of our earliest guests.
Guest:And then they really have not like there, maybe they've seen each other once or twice.
Guest:I don't know a hundred percent, but it does.
Guest:I don't think they've really interacted since that 15 years ago.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And yeah,
Guest:You know, he came on and it felt like he was like an old friend.
Guest:Like he really did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and it didn't seem like a put on.
Guest:It wasn't like, you know, obviously actors are charmers and they can turn things on, whatever.
Guest:But like, I felt like he enjoyed it.
Guest:He got a kick out of it.
Marc:One hundred percent.
Marc:He just seems like to really enjoy Mark's company.
Marc:Like, I don't know.
Marc:Maybe I'm being a fool and that acting guy is doing his acting thing.
Marc:He just seems to like him.
Marc:And I don't think Ben Stiller would have came on in episode 79 if he didn't like Mark.
Marc:So I don't know.
Marc:I just feel like there's something there.
Marc:There's...
Guest:Well, one thing you got to remember about Stiller is that like, you know, he obviously was, you know, is a big star and a guy who has a, you know, pretty prominent position in the Hollywood hierarchy.
Guest:But like he started with those people that Mark started with.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, so so it's like.
Guest:he's, he probably in his, like, you know, you, you're just talking about like the kind of feelings and nostalgia you have with your high school friends and that what's like these folks who were, you know, hanging out at these Luna lounge type clubs, like they all remember each other and they all probably think of those times as like the best of their lives, or at least they think very fondly on them as long as nothing terrible happened.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I got to imagine that Ben probably puts Mark in the slot in his brain with like David Cross and Odenkirk and Janine.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So they're just kind of like it's a it's it's like there is some like Mark can sit there and be a little bit of a dick to this very famous director and producer.
Guest:Now, it's not just an actor, you know, or a comic.
Guest:He's a very like sought after person at the top of creative lines in Hollywood.
Guest:And Mark can be a kind of a dick to him across the desk.
Guest:And he's laughing like he's not like offended or walking out or Ben Kingsley in the whole situation.
Guest:You know, so like there's something he's like, that's the guy I know and love.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Classic Marin.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:One hundred percent.
Guest:uh yeah i was also i was also surprised to uh have my car so thoroughly waxed uh by uh peter conheim that episode that was amazing i mean we we were like at first i thought it was part of the song that was being i i thought of that and i was like at first i was like oh maybe i should fade that song out and i was like no this works to have it just be in the song there
Marc:That was, I was going to ask.
Marc:So yeah, was that shocking for you to?
Marc:It wasn't shocking.
Guest:It was, it was though, here's a, I'll be 1 million percent honest about this.
Guest:That I had not heard that yet.
Guest:Mark had not told me about it.
Guest:And so it's like the, one of the first things I'm hearing as I start diving into the episode.
Guest:And
Guest:And within, you know, five seconds of hearing my name mentioned and hearing that he's going to talk about, you know, the editing, I set a marker to get ready to cut this part out, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's going on, he's going on, and then he finishes...
Guest:And I was like, wow, that was really nice.
Guest:And I appreciate it.
Guest:Anyone wants to feel seen or whatever.
Guest:But I put the second marker down.
Guest:I'm going to edit, clip this part right out.
Guest:And I highlighted it.
Guest:And I was like, you know what?
Guest:Fuck that.
Guest:I'm going to leave it in.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Good for you.
Guest:And that was... I was just like, in my mind, I was like, okay, look, I'm not going to think of myself as self-indulgent here.
Guest:It's like, he is literally identifying...
Guest:a thing about the show that is objectively i'm saying this like removing it from myself that is a thing about the show that is objectively good and we've worked to make it it's just like the microphones or whatever like pick a thing that if somebody had come on the show and been like hey you know i gotta say i'm a microphone expert and you guys use the best mics like these mics really make your show sound great i would have been like
Guest:Well, yeah, I should leave that in because that is what we like went out of the way to make sure we have the best sounding mics.
Guest:And this expert says so.
Guest:So if I have an audio archivist who specializes in like montage editing and he's like, your show is the best at editing dialogue, I'm going to leave that in.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It's like Martin Scorsese saying, wow, that's a great shot.
Marc:I'm going to keep on hearing that.
Marc:I'm going to frame that.
Marc:So yeah, I totally, totally.
Guest:Also, by the way, when they talked about that U2 song,
Guest:Did you go listen to that?
Marc:I, you know, I was going to, I was, I was in the middle of a walk and I didn't, I didn't.
Guest:Oh man, it is, you dig it the most because it's, it's all the Casey Kasem outtakes.
Guest:Oh, no kidding.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:In fact, I think when they renamed the song,
Guest:Cause right.
Guest:Like it was called, you know, just you too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And negative land.
Guest:And then as, as Peter said, you know, they, they bootlegged it or he, you know, was kind of sly.
Guest:He's like, we bootleg, I mean, someone bootleg.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was released with the name.
Guest:These guys are from England and who gives a shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:which is the Casey Kasem outtake.
Guest:Oh, is it?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:He's, he's one of the things he's getting pissed off at is that they're having him read all this copy about you too.
Guest:And, you know, he's like, he's like, that's Bono in the lead and on the guitar and Adam Clayton on the drum.
Guest:What is this?
Guest:Why am I reading this?
Guest:These guys are from England and who gives a shit?
Oh,
Marc:What a great Easter egg of a title.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:Oh man.
Guest:And it was all of our favorites.
Guest:Like I, I'm like, how did I know about this?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm guessing Ponderous is in there.
Guest:All of it.
Guest:All of it.
Guest:Is that Don?
Guest:Get Don on the phone.
Guest:I mean, we, we used to, I think anyone who ever worked in radio and evidently because of these, you know, guys who are audiophiles, they all listen to it as well.
Guest:Like, I think this is like a sacred text.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, the Casey Kasem outtakes like anyone I've ever met who worked in radio has heard all of them.
Guest:Like they like it's like, you know, and then Stern used to play them.
Guest:They used to have it as drops on Stern and I'm sure plenty of other shows and that.
Guest:But like, oh, yeah, if you've if you're listening to us talk and you've never heard the Casey Kasem outtakes, that they are foundational to people who do audio for a living.
Marc:yeah and uh can i just say you probably need to get consent about putting someone's ashes in the final he was so he was so flippant about that he'd want it he'd want that to be the case it's so insane that was a wild story and just yeah really fun interview really really fun uh
Guest:Well, yeah, so that's been the last, like, two weeks worth of shows.
Guest:While we've been gone, you know, I was away at the Jersey Shore with my family, and I did take in some movies.
Guest:And...
Guest:Something that we know about you, Chris, is your love of Superman.
Guest:Damn straight.
Guest:And we have talked about this before and how you basically, you're not a straight dealer on this.
Guest:There's no way for you to have an objective conversation about Superman.
Guest:It's just all great.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's, it's, it's like, um, if Owen makes like a movie, you're like, this is great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I would, I would, I would say you're wrong about that.
Guest:I would say that you're less, you have more bias towards Superman than I do about my own son's work.
Guest:Like if he made something, I would be like, you know, like, this is great.
Guest:You did a great job.
Guest:And then maybe help him a little bit with like some criticism.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like, like maybe next time try this part, you know, like you got to give them a little oomph for the next one.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think you're like, if Superman movie comes out, you're like, you guys did great.
Guest:Everyone here.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Grand slam.
Marc:Out of the park.
Marc:I'm a, I'm like a real soccer mom.
Marc:Like, Hey, you guys need orange slices.
Guest:Brandon Ruth.
Guest:Anything back massage.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:I love the, I just love the character.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, so I, I,
Guest:watched the new superman during vacation but i i realized like i was like i should talk about this with chris and i realized like there's nothing like chris is chris is not going to be able to be objective about this so i watched it with someone who has never seen any superman movies
Guest:Oh.
Guest:And we also watched the original Superman the movie from 1978 with Christopher Reeve.
Guest:So this person I spoke and why don't we hear that now and then you and I can talk about it afterwards.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Well, hello, Owen.
Guest:Hello.
Guest:How's everything going over there?
Guest:Well, good news and bad news.
Guest:The good news is I'm using a very powerful microphone this time around.
Guest:The bad news is I potentially lost the old microphone, the one I used in the past few interviews.
Guest:I mean, lost is lost is a little bit in the eye of the beholder because it never left this house, but it's just somewhere in the house that we can't find it.
Guest:That happens all the time.
Guest:It's so annoying.
Guest:But now I'm using the Zoom mic.
Guest:And that's why the audio sounds a little different today.
Guest:But it's much more powerful.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I love how it's something that's so annoying as if it's totally out of your control, right?
Guest:These things.
Guest:It's like one of the things from Narnia comes through the wardrobe and steals it, right?
Guest:That's how things go missing in the house.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I believe so.
Guest:I don't remember how long ago it was when I watched that movie, I think like three years ago.
Guest:I really like it.
Guest:But that's not what we're talking about today.
Guest:No, I brought you on here because I wanted to talk about another movie.
Guest:I'm going to be talking about it with Chris.
Guest:So I figured I'd get your take on it as well because it was brand new to you.
Guest:You had never seen any Superman movies, right?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, well, technically that's not true, right?
Guest:You've seen cartoons with Superman in them.
Guest:Lego Batman, League of Super Pets, right?
Guest:Well, I guess we could start here, though.
Guest:What would you say your feeling is about superhero movies in general?
Guest:Do you like them?
Guest:Yes, but now that I've watched a lot of DC movies, I've watched way more Marvel movies than DC, and now I just don't like Marvel.
Guest:I think DC is better.
Guest:How come?
Guest:It's more thrilling, and it has more interesting storyline.
Guest:Marvel's just like, well, we're fighting, yeah.
Guest:There's this purple guy destroying the world for some reason.
Guest:Huh, that's interesting to me.
Guest:So what would you say are the DC movies that you like?
Guest:I liked, oh man, I loved the Batman one, the first Batman.
Guest:I have the soundtrack of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just like with the Pee Wee's Big Adventure soundtrack, I have that as well.
Guest:And now you've liked the Superman movies you've watched.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I would say what I find interesting about that is that you are liking movies that kind of...
Guest:Don't connect to each other.
Guest:Like you're saying, I like DC movies, but they're not like, it's not like one big DC storyline, which was the case with the Marvel movies.
Guest:The Marvel movies were like one story told through 21 movies.
Guest:Yeah, I don't really like that.
Guest:You probably remember this.
Guest:There was this online poll.
Guest:It was like a little game online.
Guest:It was called Let's Settle This.
Guest:And you could vote on internet debates, which one's better, which one's worse.
Guest:And one of the questions was Marvel or DC.
Guest:And the winning vote was Marvel or DC.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Well, Marvel's definitely been, in terms of movies, more popular than DC.
Guest:But I think DC now wants to try to make a big push for the kind of audience that Marvel was getting.
Guest:But on the other hand, that website was not the best.
Guest:It had questions that just were debatable and stupid.
Guest:One of them was, are we living in a simulation?
Guest:Luckily, everybody said no.
Guest:Originally, it was yes, because people were just screwing around with the website.
Guest:They wanted to say yes.
Guest:Well, shocker, online poll was not exactly on the up and up.
Guest:I know that might be surprising to people.
Guest:But in terms of the DC movies, you watched, we were on vacation with our family on the Jersey Shore.
Guest:Everybody wanted to watch some movies.
Guest:And the first thing that was picked, I think, what was it, the first night we were there, second night we were there?
Guest:was the original superman so we're going way back we're going way back to 1978 and uh and and what did you think of that movie you'd never seen it before you never saw anything from the original superman i thought it was pretty good i thought it was as good as like the like the original star wars yeah similar i mean it came out roughly around the same time
Guest:And original Star Wars is a masterpiece.
Guest:That one's, yeah, the Superman one is like, that's pretty good.
Guest:I was noticing watching that original Superman that there's actually very minimal story in it, right?
Guest:It's like you're basically just learning about Superman.
Guest:It's like really his origin story.
Guest:And then...
Guest:You know, you're seeing him when he's starting out as Clark at the Daily Planet and and he first meets Lex Luthor.
Guest:And but the the actual like plot of the movie, it's pretty small and it doesn't really even happen till late in the story when, you know, you find out that Lex is trying to, you know, break off the West Coast so he can own all the land.
Guest:So did that did you still find it interesting?
Guest:You were like, you know, into it, even though like the story was pretty minimal.
Guest:Yeah, and I didn't watch Superman 2, but I apparently know what's going to happen.
Guest:I found out that Superman 2 is just going to be a continuation of what happens at the very beginning of the movie.
Guest:Apparently there's these bad guys, and they are the result of Krypton blowing up.
Guest:And they get banished to, I believe, the Phantom Zone.
Guest:Yeah, that's basically like the Krypton jail, right?
Guest:So they're in jail.
Guest:You see at the beginning of Superman 1, they get put in that jail, the Phantom Zone.
Guest:But then Krypton blows up.
Guest:So they're still there.
Guest:What happens in the second movie?
Guest:Well, watch it.
Guest:I don't want to spoil it for you.
Guest:But the thing is, when I watch one of those old movies and then watch a new movie and then watch an old movie again, it's just like weird seeing the time change.
Guest:It's almost like watching a budget film and then watching a Hollywood blockbuster.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I mean, definitely some of the effects in the old Superman are wanting at this point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I would say, I will say, I appreciated that a lot, and this happens to be the case when I talk with Chris about movies all the time.
Guest:You talk about movies from the 70s or the 80s.
Guest:I appreciated a lot of the practical effects.
Guest:You know, there are a lot of times in this movie where there's just stuff on wires.
Guest:And frankly, you might not know this, but that's true about the new Superman too.
Guest:That even though there's a lot of green screen going on,
Guest:The director of that, James Gunn, he wanted to make sure it still had the feel of the old Superman.
Guest:And so a lot of times with people flying around, like remember when the Hawk girl goes flying through that hallway?
Guest:She's just there on wires.
Guest:You know, they wanted to keep things looking as real as they could.
Guest:Which brings us to the fact that then a couple nights later, we watched the new Superman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like days, like brand new.
Guest:This is like a couple of days old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When did that movie come out?
Guest:Like a month ago?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The movie came out in, uh, in the, at the end of June, I think.
Guest:Uh, people are going crazy over there.
Guest:They put in, uh, they, they're associating with the movie with David Bowie's star man.
Guest:Cause it's like on Tik TOK.
Guest:It's like the, there's like a video of the Superman movie and star man is playing over it or something.
Guest:That's a appropriate song for Superman.
Guest:Um,
Guest:Well, you know, this guy, James Gunn, who made it, he made the Guardians of the Galaxy movies as well.
Guest:So he likes to put a lot of music in his movies.
Guest:Did you like the stuff they put into this one?
Guest:Yeah, I really love the reharmonization of the original Superman theme.
Guest:I really love that they're still using that.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was used to good effect, I thought.
Guest:And I really liked Mr. Terrific.
Guest:He was a nice character.
Guest:Great character.
Guest:Great way to add a character into Superman without it feeling like he was just kind of tacked on there or secondary.
Guest:Like he felt like he had his own thing going on.
Guest:Is he new?
Guest:Like he's a fairly new superhero or is he from the comics?
Guest:No.
Guest:from the comics it's just you know what it is he's not a he's not a superhuman he's he's just a normal guy who's just really smart so kind of like batman right and what he's able to use utilize are all these these gadgets right he's like a gadget guy so iron man too yeah exactly and so i think that you know because of that he he never really caught on as like some of one of the main superheroes it wasn't like somebody you know how people would catch on to like the hulk
Guest:Also, about Iron Man in the Lego Batman movie, Batman's password to his Batcave is Iron Man sucks.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I remember that now.
Guest:It's like a nice cheeky reference to Marvel saying that Marvel's worse than DCI, which I think is really funny.
Guest:So how would you compare the 1978 Superman to this modern one, 2025?
Guest:I don't really know which one's better because someone could say the old one's better, someone could say the new one's better, which I guess a lot of people might debate on that.
Guest:If you had to put one of them on again tomorrow, which one would you watch again?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Probably, well, probably the new one.
Guest:And what do you think the reason is for that?
Guest:It's almost like the finale of the series.
Guest:So it's got like a better plot.
Guest:Like this movie is like, you can't really tell, but it's actually not a continuation of any Superman movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's just like Superman 2.
Guest:No, it just kind of drops you in in the middle of a story that you didn't really know the beginning of.
Guest:Although it's just like the new Superman.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:I think they're relying on the fact that most people in the world already know that Superman came from Krypton and, you know, is an alien and and comes to the earth to protect people and serve truth, justice and the American way.
Guest:I do like the Lex Luthor in this.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:I kind of like how he's like a young man.
Guest:I don't even know which Lex Luthor was better.
Guest:The one in the original, it's like a 50-year-old guy with like a mad scientist voice.
Guest:The Lex Luthor in this is almost just like a teenager guy.
Guest:Yeah, he kind of, well, he also seems like he's playing off of, like, Elon Musk and other tech leaders.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I didn't realize that.
Guest:You know, it's like a guy who runs industry.
Guest:And, you know, frankly, he's a lot like what Lex is in the comics.
Guest:You know, the Gene Hackman version, that's the actor who played him in the original, is almost like a creation of Gene Hackman alone.
Guest:Like...
Guest:it really wasn't anything to do with Lex Luthor beyond now.
Guest:A lot of people consider that to be Lex Luthor just because that's how Gene Hackman played him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How would you compare the Superman to the two different Superman?
Guest:Almost felt like the same.
Guest:So they almost felt like the same guy.
Guest:That's very strange that I'm saying that, but they're like, that's like, they're like the, like the, they almost felt like the same person, even though I know they're completely different actors.
Guest:They look,
Guest:Fairly different, but their traits are almost the same.
Guest:Yeah, I thought this new guy was very good, and to me, it feels like it's hard to be better than Christopher Reeve, but I really like this new guy.
Guest:Yeah, actually, I think people can do a better job than the original Superman.
Guest:I think the original Superman is just like, he's slow.
Guest:You mean he's just like kind of plain and taciturn?
Guest:He doesn't show a lot of emotion?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think that's probably true.
Guest:I do think that's what a lot of people liked about him.
Guest:You know, he just kind of portrays goodness.
Guest:He doesn't give it a ton either way.
Guest:Big emotions one way, big emotions another way.
Guest:And so I think a lot of people then put their own feelings onto him.
Guest:It's like projection.
Guest:You know what projection is?
Guest:It's like that.
Guest:What did you think about the side characters in both movies?
Guest:Is there anybody that stands out to you?
Guest:You mentioned Mr. Terrific.
Guest:Anybody else in either film?
Guest:So in the first Superman, there was this goofy sidekick.
Guest:What's his name?
Guest:Otis?
Guest:Otis, yeah.
Guest:They don't really show him that much in this new one.
Guest:And also he's, he doesn't, he's like a completely different guy.
Guest:He's actually a black man in the new one.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:And I don't even know that they really intend for him to be, you know, the same guy as the Otis in, in the Ned Beatty plays, but they did call a guy, one of, one of the many Lex Luthor corporation, you know, workers, they called one guy Otis.
Guest:Oh, so we don't even know if that's Otis or not.
Guest:I mean, he's called Otis and he's a guy who works for Lex.
Guest:So you could just say that's this movie's version of what Otis is.
Guest:But yeah, he's not going to be like the bumbling sidekick.
Guest:Now, one thing I didn't understand about Lex Luthor is that why does he have a wig for the whole majority of the film when he's a bald man?
Guest:Oh, you mean in the first one?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's just because Gene Hackman didn't want to shave his head and he didn't want to wear a bald cap.
Guest:So that was their workaround.
Guest:They were like, okay, you can have your hair on and we'll pretend you're just wearing a wig.
Guest:So he finally gave in at the end of the movie?
Guest:Yeah, that way just one scene he had to have a bald cap so that you understood that he was bald Lex Luthor the whole time.
Guest:Actually, I don't know which Lex Luthor in the spinoffs is the best.
Guest:I kind of like him in the League of Super Pets.
Guest:Yeah, who is that?
Guest:What a coincidence.
Guest:The man of the podcast, we're on right now.
Guest:Yeah, he was Lex Luthor.
Guest:It's so funny to me that there's, I don't know, maybe five or six people who have played Lex Luthor.
Guest:They're all in a little fraternity, basically, and Mark is one of them.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Another guy, probably in some of the cartoons and some of the Lego Superman games, the voice of Lex Luthor is Clancy Brown.
Oh.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know who Clancy Brown is very well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I know him from SpongeBob.
Guest:He's a lot of voices in SpongeBob.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was the original villain in Crash Bandicoot.
Guest:Well, not the first Crash Bandicoot, but Crash Bandicoot 2 and 3.
Guest:He's the voice of the movie.
Guest:The video games?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he goes back for me all the way back to the movie Highlander.
Guest:That's what I remember him from.
Guest:But then he's been in lots of stuff since then.
Guest:So do you have any final thoughts or stray thoughts about Superman?
Guest:Well, I actually really like the series, to be honest.
Guest:It's a nice series.
Guest:I even liked both movies, despite Superman 1 just being old.
Guest:I actually liked it, and I liked the new one even better, obviously, but I liked them both.
Guest:I liked them both.
Guest:And so you're interested to watch them more?
Guest:Yes, maybe I could watch the second one soon.
Guest:Yeah, I think you should.
Guest:Second one is better than the first one by my count.
Guest:But, you know, maybe you'll think differently.
Guest:I tend to like Superman 2 the best out of all the Superman movies.
Guest:Yeah, and I asked you once, was he was...
Guest:He may have been one of the first superheroes.
Guest:I know not the first superhero on the entire planet, but at least one of the first American superheroes.
Guest:It's definitely one of the first comic book characters that got extended into a...
Guest:ongoing series that's still relevant today i mean there were lots of comics before superman first showed up in action comics you know going back to like tarzan and the phantom and lots of comics lots of comic book superheroes but superman is definitely you know the first one that became larger than the comics that he was in you know if you think about it that first one he's in he was just a character in a thing called action comics
Guest:But then it becomes all about him.
Guest:It's puzzling to think of who the first superhero was.
Guest:Because think about it.
Guest:Internationally, there's probably way more superheroes before America.
Guest:Like Astro Boy, especially in Japan, there was Astro Boy.
Guest:I'm pretty sure he came before Superman.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:How about this?
Guest:Maybe this will blow your mind.
Guest:What about Hercules?
Guest:Wouldn't you say he's the first superhero?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, definitely a lot of superheroes and myths.
Guest:Who's the main character in Altered Beast?
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Guest:It's definitely a Hercules-type character.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:That's basically a superhero.
Guest:Yeah, think about any of those myths.
Guest:Jason and the Argonauts, right?
Guest:Those are superheroes.
Guest:It was at a different time.
Guest:Someday, when you get a little older, you'll read the Joseph Campbell book, The Hero of a Thousand Faces.
Guest:Oh, that's a good book.
Guest:It's about Jesus, right?
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:I mean, I think that's why people would suggest to be a little older when you read it, so you can understand the differentiation between myth and religion, and you won't just lump them all in together.
Guest:But yeah, it absolutely takes you through the idea that there's a hero story...
Guest:That gets told throughout time over and over again, and it winds up being kind of the same, whether you're talking about Hercules or Jesus or Luke Skywalker or Neo from The Matrix.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, it could be, it could be anybody could just be the chosen one.
Guest:So yeah, this, I mean, we'll, we'll get you onto watching some other things, but, uh, I don't know anything else on your mind before we wrap up.
Guest:Um, is this probably going to be our last, last interview?
Guest:It could be, we don't know if you, if you have anything you want to say or get off your mind now, it could be a good time to do it.
Guest:Well, if we do watch one more movie, like, as a family, and then we'll do something about it, that could probably be the last one.
Guest:All right, so this audience will hear you one more time, is what you're saying?
Guest:Yes, hopefully one more time.
Guest:Okay, I think that's fair.
Guest:Thank you for your time today, and glad you enjoyed those two movies.
Guest:Yeah, I loved them.
Guest:All right, so there you go.
Guest:That's a total Superman newbie, my son Owen.
Marc:I loved it.
Marc:Like, man, I can't believe he's so overcome with it, first of all.
Guest:Yeah, he was, you know, it was funny.
Guest:He really loved the first one.
Guest:We watched that first.
Guest:He was like, that was great.
Guest:I would watch the second one, like, you know, at some point.
Guest:He wasn't saying, like, to put it on right now.
Guest:He was like, I really liked it.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:So then a couple of nights later, we actually watched the Superman, the new one.
Guest:We watched it at the house.
Guest:Like it wasn't, we didn't go to the movies to see it, which was fine.
Guest:It was actually, we watched it.
Guest:My brother-in-law brought to this house that we were staying at a big screen and a projector.
Guest:So it was-
Guest:4k projection it looked great it was basically like going to the movies um and uh and so the suggestion for the family was well we watched this for the first superman the other day let's watch the newest pay for the new one and watch it it's cheaper than going to the movies and uh he was like i don't want to do that we just watch the other one i i don't want to compare the two of them and it was like well buddy you're completely
Guest:outvoted here.
Guest:Like everyone wants to watch this.
Guest:So either you got to go upstairs and hang out by yourself while we all have a fun time and you have FOMO or you come and watch it.
Guest:So he kind of like begrudgingly watched it too.
Guest:Oh wow.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:And he loved it.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like he, he was like, it was, it was my, it was my father-in-law's birthday.
Guest:And so like we gave him the final call.
Guest:Like, you know, what do you, what do you want to watch?
Guest:He's like, Oh, I'll watch the new Superman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so when it was over, Owen was like, oh, Pop Pop, you picked the best one.
Guest:That was the right choice.
Guest:So he was very happy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:First of all, I'm very happy that Owen knows how to say Krypton, unlike Marlon Brando.
Marc:Krypton.
Marc:Krypton.
Guest:Couldn't phonetically put that in the... There might not be a bigger don't give a shit performance in the history of movies.
Guest:Like, I was watching it again, and I'm like, this dude got paid the most money that anyone ever got paid to make a movie at that point in time to do that.
Guest:And he has top billing.
Guest:He is the number one name in the movie.
Guest:And he might as well be eating a taco while he's talking.
Marc:I'm shocked he wasn't.
Guest:It's like he doesn't give a shit.
Guest:shit he doesn't believe any word that's coming out of his mouth he is doing a deliberate like richard burton impersonation or something i guarantee he's doing something in his head to entertain himself like that voice he's putting on and the like the the way he's talking is like a is is a caricature that he created you know yeah uh it's it's kind of hilarious and and gene hackman who is beloved
Guest:as Lex Luthor and you know, people have been, you know, it's what, when, when Gene Hackman died recently was one of the things people were like, Oh, Lex Luthor, I loved him.
Guest:It's Lex Luthor.
Guest:He also kind of doesn't give a shit in the movie.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They, they, they, they, they seem to have picked like Lex Luthor's who don't really care.
Guest:Well, I just think it's like at that, you go back to that time.
Guest:So what was Superman?
Guest:It was, you know, obviously a comic and cartoons from the 40s.
Guest:A serial.
Guest:But then also like, you know, the George Reeves TV show.
Guest:So like, these people were like,
Guest:this is slumming it, but it's coming off the heels of star Wars.
Guest:They know, you know, the Salkinds who produced it, they know they've got like a hot property because audiences want this stuff.
Guest:They want fantasy.
Guest:They want flying around.
Guest:Like why not give them a big budget Superman?
Guest:So they could have spend a shitload of money on this thing.
Guest:I mean, it's basically like Alec Guinness in as, as Obi-Wan, although like he, his disinterest in the project does not translate on the screen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like that's a performance where you feel you believe him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's only in interviews afterwards where he's like, I, I, this is the stupidest thing I've ever done in my life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But like those two guys in Superman, you could tell they were like, wait, how much is the check?
Guest:Okay, great.
Guest:What do I have to do?
Guest:Doesn't matter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Money job.
Marc:Now, how did you like the new Superman movie?
Guest:Well, so very interesting for me to watch this new Superman after watching Superman one.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which, as I mentioned to Owen, is not always it's not my favorite Superman, but one I've always liked.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Superman two is my favorite.
Guest:And I would say that's a weird.
Guest:thing those are the only two movies of superman that i enjoy right like when i was a kid obviously i watched superman 3 and and superman 4 and they were fine for when you're a kid but you know having watched them as an adult i'm like these are terrible right like like they're like badly made movies beyond like just like do they work or not right uh
Guest:And so I didn't like the one in 2006.
Guest:I did not like, I, that's, that's at least better than the, the man of steel and the, the, the Zack Snyder ones.
Guest:But like, look, look, I'm talking to you from like a person who does not have the emotional investment that you have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I think I'm at a disadvantage just from the get go of like, will I like a Superman movie?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, is it, is it something I'm going to enjoy?
Guest:Right.
Marc:Because it's been so long.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Because it's been iterations where you're like, okay, this is obviously.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And then you have me watch this days after I watched the one I really like.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The odds are stacked so against this new movie.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So the fact that I enjoyed the new movie, I think, is a testament to how it's made.
Guest:Now, is it a perfect thing?
Guest:No.
Guest:But I did think of something while I was watching it.
Guest:Because at first, I wasn't sure, right?
Guest:I was like, you know, trying to get into it.
Guest:And the movie, it takes a little while to kind of congeal as a movie.
Guest:And I'm watching and I'm going like...
Guest:maybe people should just stop trying to do this.
Guest:Like maybe it's not possible anymore.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like this is, cause I do remember thinking that with the, the, the Henry Cavill one, like, I'm like, what, why are we even trying?
Guest:Like this, what are we doing here?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like, it's like, it'd be like, you know, you're just constantly trying to like remake the revolutionary war.
Guest:Like we're like, we already know who George Washington is.
Guest:We don't need to re-know him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
And,
Guest:I think what it wound up kind of winning me over on this Superman movie, which really was when the other characters showed up.
Guest:The Justice Gang.
Guest:The Justice Gang, yeah.
Guest:And the plot started to kick in a bit.
Guest:And I realized, like, you can't make...
Guest:a grand version of the superman story anymore that's out you can't treat it like it's a holy text and that you're each time you're making it you're making it from the ground up of like we have to show this jesus like if you remember that um one with with brandon ruth what what is even the name of it superman what returns returns god i couldn't even think of it
Guest:so superman returns if you remember there's like a scene where like the like a building something falls off a building and he catches like the orb of it's supposed to the deli planet orb yes right man yeah but he he is holding it on his back like atlas right yeah of course he
Guest:And it's this delicately shot tableau.
Guest:Like, who was that, Bryan Singer?
Guest:I mean, fuck that guy.
Guest:But also, beyond that, like even at the time, before he was a fuck that guy, it was like...
Guest:he was so insistent on this being meaningful.
Guest:This is going to mean something.
Guest:He has the world on his back.
Guest:He is our savior in this.
Guest:And I'm like iconic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's don't, especially after having watched the reeve one just days before it's like, don't fucking try.
Guest:That's over.
Guest:Like, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so basically this is the right way to go, which this is going to sound like a criticism or that I'm diminishing it, but I don't think I am.
Guest:I think the right way to go is just to treat it like TV.
Guest:Like it's basically like, like the, like the lowest and, and Superman relationship in this movie is,
Guest:it's like a TV relationship.
Guest:It was like you were watching one of those WB Superman shows, how they interact with each other and adding these characters in, in a literal way.
Guest:I wasn't ever confused who people were, but I'm like, okay, this is like, you're expanding a little universe.
Guest:And then I'm sure at some point we're going to get a Mr. Terrific movie.
Guest:And, you know, we'll get like a justice gang and whatever.
Guest:Like, so, okay, this is the way to go with this.
Guest:If you've got to go back to Superman,
Guest:find a great superman that's not easy but they got a good one here and just let him be don't make him jesus like right he let him be superman and and this movie was cool because they like he got his ass kicked a lot and he you know it's like okay great i'm finally seeing things that aren't typical from all the other superman movies where he had to carry all this weight and
Marc:dude i honestly i had the same thought as you and i actually for me i was like at first first time i saw it i was like i wondered that i wondered that i i thought i don't know it's not epic enough yeah like that was my first thought because because it has all this external weight to it right it has to launch you come to it with the weight
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Which it has to launch a cinematic universe.
Marc:It has to turn a profit or else there won't be any more of these movies.
Marc:It's got to withstand the Snyder bros and the marble tribe.
Marc:Like there's already all this weight to it.
Marc:And so I thought, well, this isn't an epic genre defining a movie like the Chris Reeves movie or the Tim Burton Batman, which I just saw in the movie theater.
Marc:And it's
Marc:Epic.
Marc:Yeah, it's right, right.
Marc:It created an entire new world.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's this totemic, like it is just a pillar, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So, but what this is and what James Gunn figured out is that it's basically just a week in the life of this guy, you know?
Marc:It's just a week...
Marc:of being in the metropolis with Superman and these other superheroes doing their thing.
Marc:And once I took off the pressure of it, I was like, yes, this can stand alone as just being just a, just a regular week in the life of, of a metropolis person.
Guest:Which is what you'd get on like a TV show.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:And what those fucking Marvel movies, which are fine, by the way, but those Marvel movies never had this type of pressure.
Guest:Well, I'll take you back to the 14 year old we just heard from who was like, I like these ones better because they're just a story I can watch and invest in.
Guest:And then that's that.
Guest:It's not like it's it's taking the weight off of it.
Guest:That helps.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I think that this James Gunn is the right guy for the job because this specific job, he would not be the right guy for the job if you told him, make the Jesus Superman movie.
Guest:So instead, he has that thing of juggling characters, having the comedy mix in with action, having the needle drops and the kind of incongruous moments, right?
Guest:Of like funny things and violence happening at the same time.
Guest:And it's very good to have a PG 13 governor on him.
Guest:Like that's where he like, cause this, this guy comes from trauma, right?
Guest:He was a, he was a student of the trauma guy.
Guest:He made all these trauma films and he's a splatter house dude.
Guest:And that suicide squad thing he made, I think is terrible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, and it's terrible because he's unleashed.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then nothing has any stakes.
Guest:It's all just splatter house.
Guest:And and you're bored by it after 20 minutes.
Guest:This, at least when you put a when you put a cap on his excesses and he just it's like, hey, dude, focus on the characters.
Guest:It works.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Marc:And can I just take you back, though, to the original Superman and actually why Superman?
Marc:I feel like this movie, this 2025 Superman, it unlocked why this movie is so kind of personal to me.
Guest:Yeah, tell me, because I was going to ask you, like, what was it about Superman as a kid that locked you in so hard?
Marc:So Superman for me, you know, I was born in 79, okay?
Marc:So it's a very unique, like...
Marc:time to be alive because that Superman movie came comes out a year before right yeah and so I obviously did not see it until I was much older but I grew up watching Superman on cassette right as a kid I would just watch that thing on on tape the entire time I think I'd Superman one two and three on one cassette so the movies were the your first entry to it it wasn't like you
Guest:watched cartoons or... Well, that's the thing.
Marc:Like, I would watch those movies, but really what I was watching on a regular basis is the George Reeves Superman serial show.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:The show?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah, because first of all, those were a half hour long, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It was very, very quick.
Marc:I also would watch the cartoon, the... Justice League.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:It was like the old Superman cartoon.
Guest:Oh, like the Fleischer Studios, like from the 40s.
Guest:Oh, no kidding.
Marc:I remember those.
Marc:I mean, I loved those.
Marc:They were just...
Marc:so cool they're still pretty beautiful to look at i wish they made cartoons like that again because it was so it's fucking expensive i mean these people were literally painting those with their hands oh my god yeah you're right but so i so everything about my life was superman like i i had like a superman um what do you call it um pajamas oh no pajamas where it was like one of those onesies sure yeah with a cape on it yeah with a cape
Marc:My mom still has a picture of me, you know, being held up as some Superman.
Guest:I've seen that picture.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So like my whole life was just Superman, Superman, Superman, you know, dick, dick, dick, dick, dick.
Marc:That's okay.
Marc:So that was my identity as a kid.
Marc:And I realized after watching this new one,
Marc:that this character is unique to people my age.
Marc:And I say that as Superman in 1978 came from a farm to a very big city of metropolis, right?
Marc:And I personally found a through line with me and my parents.
Marc:Like my mom grew up in rural Staten Island.
Marc:I know it sounds odd to say, but my mom grew up on like a farm in Staten Island with her brothers and sisters.
Guest:For anyone out there who thinks all of Staten Island is just like New York, it's like, no, Staten Island is much closer to New Jersey, physically closer to New Jersey than it is to New York.
Guest:And New Jersey is, you know, a lot of farm country.
Guest:So you get to that like southern part of Staten Island.
Guest:It's it's it's rural.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And, like, their life was very Norman Rockwell, which is how I can describe that 1978 Superman, like, as a transition, right?
Marc:Like, his time in Kansas on that farm is very Norman Rockwell.
Marc:Like, there are sweeping, beautiful shots with those in wheat.
Marc:And, like, my parents...
Marc:are going from one era and, you know, giving their child a better life, right?
Marc:So like they were from Staten Island, they go to Manhattan and it's like a busy metropolis, right?
Marc:So now this new movie is very much a Superman who came to this planet 30 years ago
Marc:Yes.
Marc:From today, right?
Marc:And he listens to music that I grew up on.
Marc:Like I said two weeks ago, James Gunn did the Sonic playlist on Spotify.
Marc:He created a playlist for all these characters and he introduces each playlist.
Marc:And he says that, yeah, Clark grew up with bands like Jimmy Eat World, Pete Yorn, The New Radicals, Journey.
Marc:And that's very much like...
Marc:Like I grew up on those bands, you know, so it dawned on me that this movie is meant for parents my age to give to their kids in the hope that they can show the younger generation, A, a piece of themselves up on the big screen, just like my parents, you know, who lived through a Rockwell childhood to modern New York and,
Marc:uh and you know you sort of try to show them that hey you know this this person this this character can be the through line yeah i really feel like this movie did the thing you know and it made him uh a guy who is accepting of being flawed he's not a perfect
Guest:individual he's not you know and it's it's basically like the the message of the movie is that that you're super by choosing to do the right thing it's not just bestowed upon you it's not just you're you're always going to be perfect
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, look, Superman is always someone I, you know, I want to become.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But in this new movie, I still see that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I also see a little bit of myself in the Superman.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like he's he's vulnerable.
Marc:He's often injured.
Marc:He jumps in without thinking of consequences.
Guest:He's sensitive.
Guest:He's sometimes overly sensitive.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's not perfect.
Marc:He's not a god, you know?
Marc:Like, he's a wuss for saving squirrels and all other creatures.
Marc:Like, that's the fucking thing that those Snyder movies didn't understand.
Guest:Well, I loved the part where the other superheroes show up and they're trying to knock down this monster, which is another James Gunn thing.
Guest:So he, you know, randomly puts a kaiju in the film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But so, yeah, sure, whatever.
Guest:Superman can fight a kaiju and so can the other superheroes.
Guest:But he's trying to fight this thing very carefully.
Guest:So it's A, not to kill it and not have it do a ton of damage to the city.
Guest:And then the other superheroes show up and just start pummeling it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:like eventually killing it and instead of like up up in a way or whatever he's looking at them from the ground and he goes oh come on be careful and i was like that's actually a much more appropriate modern superman is that like he's not like i'm here to save the day he's like can you guys make better choices please like yes
Marc:Dude, there's a moment in that Man of Steel, Superman, where Superman is fighting Zod and like Zod throws like an oil tanker at Superman and Superman standing in front of a building and Superman literally just like jumps over the tanker that's coming at him and the tanker explodes behind him, like exploding the building.
Marc:And it's like, wait, what happened to that building?
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:I don't remember entirely, but isn't the fact that they were so blatant about not caring about the external world in that movie, isn't that a major plot point of the other movies going forward?
Marc:Oh, it changed the superhero movies forever.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I feel like that Man of Steel, 9-11, a whole city, basically that's what Civil War is all about.
Marc:Yes, right, right.
Marc:They changed that whole thing, that plot.
Guest:Well, even in this Superman, they evacuate the city before the rift comes.
Marc:And also, you know what?
Marc:Superman just checks in on people to make sure everyone's okay.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:It's the little things.
Marc:And I know that people think that, oh, look, he's rubbing it in Snyder fans' faces for that moment.
Marc:But you know what?
Marc:It's those little moments that actually matter.
Guest:Yeah, I got to say, I have no idea what you're even talking about with that stuff.
Guest:And it's like, it couldn't matter less.
Guest:There is not a single second of that movie that I watched and I was like, oh, that's a rebuke to the Zack Snyder thing.
Guest:meant zero to just a normal person watching it.
Marc:That's great to hear.
Marc:And then, dude, I don't know about you, but the whole cast just works.
Marc:Everyone works.
Marc:If anything, I wanted more Lois Lane.
Marc:I wanted more the Daily Planet people.
Guest:I was going to say that was my main criticism of the movie was that it is a little too overstuffed as these like that is barely a criticism when it comes to modern blockbuster movies.
Guest:They're all overstuffed.
Guest:They put way too much in these movies.
Guest:But it was to the detriment of the Daily Planet people for sure.
Guest:especially chief Perry, like you got none of him.
Guest:And it's, it's Wendell Pierce.
Guest:He's such a phenomenal actor.
Guest:Like we use that guy.
Guest:They didn't use him at all.
Guest:And yeah, there wasn't enough of Lois who is also like, you know, immensely appealing and you, you know, you should just use her more.
Guest:I guess they always, you know,
Guest:assume they're going to be making more of these movies and so you'll you'll see these people again and you know it also gave some room to people who don't typically get the spotlight like you know mr terrific he really kind of steals the movie um and and jimmy olsen to a degree gets a lot more traction in this than than he does in other ones so uh you know there was that there were there were all the new side characters that they introduced there was their version of miss tess mocker who gets a big you know focal point and um and she was great and
Marc:Like Otis.
Guest:Yeah, there was an Otis.
Guest:I love the guy from Barry, Anthony Kerrigan, playing Metamorpho.
Guest:And I didn't know this, but he apparently knew it.
Guest:He knew it for most of his life.
Guest:that Chris Reeve had alopecia that he has, right?
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:And so, you know, he said, you know, Chris Reeve had alopecia, and so, you know, as Superman, he was often wearing a wig.
Guest:And I was reading into this, and the reality was...
Guest:You know, alopecia affects people differently.
Guest:And he didn't have it where he was, you know, fully bald and no eyebrows all the time.
Guest:It'd be like a thing that acted up, so to speak.
Guest:You know, it's like it would it would affect him at times.
Guest:And so at times his hair would thin or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:the wigs in Superman were because, uh, they wanted them to match.
Guest:They wanted his, his hair to always match the way it was in that first movie.
Guest:So, but he, but I, I didn't know that at all.
Guest:I didn't know that he, um, you know, was wearing wigs in, in the, uh, in the sequels and, and that in general was something he struggled with and that he, um, you know, wrote about it.
Guest:That was what Anthony Kerrigan had, had read about it.
Guest:And he said it was, it's like, it's kind of like what you're saying.
Guest:Like, uh,
Guest:Superman meant a lot to him, but also not just the character, like knowing the guy who played him went through the same thing he was going through that as a kid caused him so much torment and, and, and, you know, outsiderdom.
Guest:It was an inspiration to him.
Guest:And so that's super cool that he gets to be in the movie and he's very good in it.
Guest:All the, all the, you know, side characters, superheroes are very good in the movie.
Marc:And this Lex Luthor, fantastic.
Guest:Excellent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The right choice.
Marc:He did a great job.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:By the way, apparently he auditioned to be Superman and he did not get it, obviously.
Marc:And so they were like, hey, but what about Lex Luthor?
Marc:And I got to say, what a brilliant choice to have an actor who was up to play Superman play Lex Luthor.
Guest:Resentful of Superman.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like you couldn't...
Marc:You have scripted it better.
Marc:Like, really, really good stuff.
Guest:Well, this is Nicholas Holt, who, you know, we talked about him when we talked about Mad Max.
Guest:And I said back then, and I continue to say now, his thing is that he is a weirdo trapped in a leading man body, right?
Guest:And so, like, there's no way he could be Superman.
Guest:Not because he's not, like, an attractive guy or he's not, like... He could probably strike a pose and be fine, but he's never...
Guest:going to read as like, you know, the guy from Kansas, the normal dude, he's a weirdo.
Guest:He can't hide it.
Guest:It's, it's, it's bursting at his seams.
Marc:And I've loved him since about a boy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, he's great in that.
Marc:Love that movie.
Marc:Uh, yeah.
Marc:And like David Kornsweat,
Marc:The dude just got it.
Marc:Like, I can't help but smile when he smiles, man.
Marc:When he smiles at the end, I mean, I'm just smiling.
Marc:Like, it is just infectious, his smile.
Guest:Well, I obviously don't want to spoil the ending for people.
Guest:I will say this, though.
Marc:I mean, look, Superman smiles at the end.
Marc:Oh, fuck!
Guest:I will say this, though.
Guest:Basically, everything you were talking about in relation to like what you think the extended legacy of Superman is to people our age and how this one kind of very aptly fits the mold for people to kind of share with their kids.
Guest:It's the new generation of Superman to pass on.
Guest:If you think about it in that framework, the ending of this movie, it really hits.
Marc:Dude, I mean, I cry every time I watch it.
Marc:Like, I cry.
Marc:Like a baby.
Marc:Like a weird baby.
Guest:I mean, I tend to think of myself as like a person who sniffs out, you know, plot stuff.
Guest:And not in a negative way.
Guest:Like, I'm not, like, upset when it happens.
Guest:I usually...
Guest:I'm happy when it happened because that meant that to me, the movie is smart.
Guest:Like I'm like, oh, they did the logical thing, right?
Guest:It went from this point and I thought it was going there and it did.
Guest:So good on them.
Guest:So I feel like I generally can tell like when things are going that way and it takes a good deal to surprise me.
Guest:And I did not see that coming.
Guest:I did not see the final note of that movie coming.
Guest:So I was really satisfying.
Yeah.
Marc:That's so good to hear.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And like, yeah, it's still, it hits, it hits so good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because when it happens, it's like, oh, of course.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:This is where this whole thing's been going the whole time.
Guest:Duh.
Guest:I'm an idiot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Also, we didn't talk about the dog.
Guest:Oh, well, yeah.
Guest:So the dog is, you know, a big deal in this movie.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Crypto.
Guest:I think the key to this dog is he's a dog.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, he's not a talking dog.
Marc:No.
Marc:He's just a dumb dog, you know?
Marc:Like, I thought it was a brilliant choice to include that.
Marc:Because, again, it just builds this world where it's just like, yeah, all this stuff is happening at all times.
Marc:Like, I just thought the dog added a lot.
Marc:And I think it was perfectly used.
Marc:It was like a little bit of salt and pepper.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:But not too much, you know?
Marc:Like, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, they didn't put the dog in a little bit of peril, not too much peril.
Guest:No.
Marc:Because that turns you off of a movie.
Marc:I will say that there was a scene where I'm just like, I don't know, that dog's in a little too much peril.
Guest:There was a baby in way more peril than the dog, I will point out.
Marc:Yes, that is true.
Marc:That is true.
Marc:But, you know, both things can be true.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I would say if I could make one recommendation, if anyone hasn't seen the Superman movie yet and you're still thinking of going to see it, I would try to go see it in a movie theater.
Guest:It's going to sound better.
Guest:It's going to look better.
Guest:But it is available on digital now.
Guest:So if you want to watch it at home, you can.
Guest:Feel free.
Marc:And can I say, in the theater, the biggest...
Marc:Like reaction from, and I saw it three times in the theater.
Marc:The biggest reaction each time was when John Cena shows up on screen.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:He got a huge pop.
Marc:Really?
Marc:He's just on a TV show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:he people love this character apparently it is the weirdest thing but like a character you would not even think of but people loved it the peacemaker yeah he's in the he's he's like being interviewed on a on a like a nightly talk show or something for brief brief seconds with michael ian black by yeah michael ian black playing like sean hannity that was that was an odd choice yeah
Guest:Well, I'm very glad that to know that despite your down week, that you can sit here and have some real joy by just thinking about Superman.
Guest:It doesn't take much to give you a boost.
Guest:And that's a that's a happy thing.
Marc:And can I say, I'm just so happy and relieved that you liked this movie.
Marc:Like, I am not someone who can recommend a Superman movie.
Guest:No, it's a long time coming for you with this.
Guest:This is your receipt from like 19 years ago when you told me that other one was good.
Marc:Dude, I'm so happy you liked it.
Marc:This is amazing for me.
Guest:Yes, I would watch it again.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:But I will not be watching it again.
Guest:We'll watch something else.
Guest:And as Owen said, he wants to watch something and hear him one more time before we wrap this Friday show up.
Guest:We've got some great things coming up in the next few weeks.
Guest:As Mark mentioned on Thursday's show,
Guest:Monday, September 1st, is our 16th anniversary.
Guest:16 years to the day that we released the first episode of WTF.
Guest:And the guest will be Tim Heidecker, guest we've had on before.
Guest:The guest on Friday, Mr. Spike Lee.
Guest:amazing yes we've been uh we've been looking to have that one for a long time you teased that one i did yeah it was literally happening the last time we recorded this or at least like when you and i turned on our mics like i knew mark was going to be interviewing spike right then and i didn't want to say that it was him in case like oh he you know he pulled the gallagher and left halfway through or whatever
Guest:And then the week after that, I could tell you that far in advance who's going to be on.
Guest:Luke Skywalker.
Marc:No kidding.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:The Joker himself.
Guest:The Joker.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And many other things.
Guest:But yes, Mark Hamill will be the guest on Monday the 8th.
Guest:So some great episodes coming up for you.
Guest:And we will also still be here on Fridays.
Guest:Also, Ask Mark Anything coming up on Tuesday.
Guest:So get your questions in.
Guest:I'll even leave a link in this episode description if you want to get your question in for Mark.
Guest:Now's the time because those questions will be getting compiled and Mark will be recording that episode.
Guest:So get your questions in.
Guest:They're in the episode description.
Guest:Click on the link.
Guest:And until next time, I'm Brendan and that's Chris.
Guest:Peace.