Episode 707 - Natasha Leggero

Episode 707 • Released May 16, 2016 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:13Marc:What the fucksters?

00:00:14Marc:What's happening?

00:00:15Marc:It's Mark Maron.

00:00:15Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:16Marc:This is my podcast.

00:00:17Marc:Welcome.

00:00:19Marc:Have a nice show today.

00:00:20Marc:Natasha Leggero, the very funny and charming Natasha Leggero is here, comedian, actress.

00:00:29Marc:I like her.

00:00:29Marc:I've always liked her.

00:00:31Marc:Don't know why I haven't had her on sooner.

00:00:32Marc:She was on a live one a while back.

00:00:35Marc:Sometimes it's not intentional.

00:00:36Marc:You know, sometimes you just...

00:00:38Marc:You forget or goes to the back burner and sits there, you know, as things do.

00:00:44Marc:A lot of shit coming in all the time.

00:00:45Marc:I can't even keep up with my texts.

00:00:48Marc:It's what you would think to text you.

00:00:50Marc:I just, I forget to respond to texts.

00:00:53Marc:I don't know what's happening.

00:00:55Marc:I think it's some sort of social networking-induced PTSD that everything is all the time.

00:01:03Marc:And everyone expects you to respond immediately.

00:01:05Marc:And you expect other people to respond immediately.

00:01:08Marc:And you got to check the Twitter and the Facebook and whatever you're doing.

00:01:12Marc:I draw the line at Snapchat.

00:01:14Marc:I can't even do Instagram anymore.

00:01:16Marc:I don't know if I'm too old or just how much time do I have in a day?

00:01:19Marc:I need to have some of my own thoughts and not just connect my brain to a...

00:01:24Marc:community of random garbage with some good stuff you know how it goes just you're just attached to this frequency this vibration this input that really i mean you may think you're working and you may think it's inspiring you to come up with new things but a lot of times it's just a goddamn time suck but that shouldn't be the way it is with the interpersonal relationships and you know texting is i i just think that when people come at you

00:01:53Marc:In their mind, you're not doing anything else maybe.

00:01:57Marc:It's like, why didn't you get back to me?

00:01:58Marc:I don't know because 900 emails came in after yours and I forgot.

00:02:03Marc:Why didn't you text me back?

00:02:04Marc:I don't know because there was a few other texts that came in and I just didn't.

00:02:09Marc:At the end of the week, I have to go through texts and go like, oh, shit.

00:02:13Marc:I should probably text my mommy back.

00:02:17Marc:Anyways, I'm a little fragmented.

00:02:21Marc:I lost a difficult friend a couple of days ago.

00:02:28Marc:And it's weird because I had talked about this.

00:02:30Marc:Those of you who listen to this part of the show, I had this situation with this blood on the porch.

00:02:36Marc:And there was a puddle of blood here and there and drops of blood.

00:02:39Marc:And I thought it was this cat or one of the cats that I feed, one of the ferals.

00:02:44Marc:I've only got a few now outside.

00:02:48Marc:But this cat, Scaredy Cat, who's been coming around for about a decade, I thought he got injured.

00:02:54Marc:But then I saw him after that and he was fine.

00:02:57Marc:And I thought he was done.

00:02:59Marc:And I felt this before about him.

00:03:01Marc:I've seen him on and off for really about 10 years.

00:03:05Marc:Sometimes he disappeared for months, weeks.

00:03:09Marc:One time he showed up here bloodied and beat up and there was nothing I could do about it because he was wild.

00:03:15Marc:Then he disappeared and

00:03:17Marc:I grieved his loss, and I've grieved the loss of this cat many times.

00:03:22Marc:That's the relationship you have with feral cats, is that you know the situation, you understand the relationship.

00:03:30Marc:You're out there in the world, in the wild, dealing with wild world shit.

00:03:35Marc:And I'm in here wondering if you're going to come back.

00:03:39Marc:And when you come back, I'm excited to see you.

00:03:42Marc:And I'm inspired by your survival.

00:03:47Marc:And I get a sense of your personality, but you only let me so far in because you're wild.

00:03:54Marc:You're a wild animal.

00:03:56Marc:Well, I got a message on my phone Friday morning when I woke up.

00:04:03Marc:The woman across the street said she had found the cat that I'd been feeding in the street dead.

00:04:12Marc:And she said it didn't look like he got hit really bad because he was all intact and everything, but he was dead.

00:04:19Marc:And that she'd set him on.

00:04:21Marc:She had picked him up.

00:04:21Marc:She had gone out to walk the dogs.

00:04:24Marc:And she had put him on the wall next door on Dennis's wall.

00:04:28Marc:And like, I jumped out of bed.

00:04:29Marc:I didn't know which cat it was.

00:04:30Marc:There's a couple.

00:04:32Marc:And I walked out there in my bathrobe and I saw the other cat, which I call scaredy too.

00:04:38Marc:This cat looks just like scaredy cat, but much younger and thinner.

00:04:42Marc:I don't know where it came from, but it's been coming around erratically.

00:04:45Marc:He's walking down the street and I'm like, fuck, I kind of wanted it to be that guy.

00:04:50Marc:i sadly because you know i don't know him he's a new guy but my guy's been around forever so it wasn't him and then i went to where she said she put the cat and the cow wasn't there you know and there was a little blood on the street and stuff and i didn't know what happened to the cat this was at 6 30 in the morning and now i'm trying to track it you know how do i end up you know having these cats pass and i and i don't get the closure of seeing their body like boomer i didn't know what happened to boomer

00:05:18Marc:Whatever.

00:05:19Marc:I don't understand it.

00:05:20Marc:You know, Dennis saw another puddle of blood down the street and thinks maybe a coyote came and got the body.

00:05:25Marc:But he hasn't been here in two days, so he's gone.

00:05:31Marc:And I miss the guy because you just get used to these guys.

00:05:34Marc:You have a relationship with them.

00:05:36Marc:It's a difficult relationship with Farrells because you know this could happen.

00:05:42Marc:And I guess I wanted closure.

00:05:44Marc:Maybe it's better I don't.

00:05:45Marc:Maybe these cats, they're just these fallen warriors of the great outdoors.

00:05:50Marc:Maybe it's better he's just mythically gone.

00:05:53Marc:I know it was him, but maybe it's better I didn't see the cat.

00:05:57Marc:Maybe it's better that in my mind, maybe he's out there.

00:06:01Marc:But I know he's not.

00:06:03Marc:But you know what I mean.

00:06:06Marc:He just enters the mythology.

00:06:08Marc:Did you see his body?

00:06:09Marc:I did not.

00:06:10Marc:Is Morrison really in his grave?

00:06:13Marc:I think so, but some people don't think so.

00:06:17Marc:So Scaredy Cat has now entered the mythic.

00:06:20Marc:And rest in peace.

00:06:24Marc:Wild guy.

00:06:25Marc:Yeah.

00:06:29Marc:So this morning, Scaredy 2 showed up.

00:06:35Marc:Just like that.

00:06:37Marc:Fill the shoes.

00:06:40Marc:This is what you get.

00:06:41Marc:I gave that guy a good life.

00:06:43Marc:I did what I could.

00:06:45Marc:He was definitely a warrior.

00:06:48Marc:And he was around a long time.

00:06:50Marc:And now I've still got deaf black cat under the house.

00:06:54Marc:And I've seen a lot of Wildcats come and go.

00:06:57Marc:And now I got a new one.

00:06:59Marc:Scaredy the second.

00:07:01Marc:I don't know if he's going to be able to live up to Scaredy one, but I was happy to see him this morning.

00:07:08Marc:Thank you, everybody, for coming out to the Steve Allen.

00:07:10Marc:Did I already thank you?

00:07:11Marc:I guess I did.

00:07:12Marc:What day is today?

00:07:12Marc:Yeah, I thanked you on Thursday.

00:07:14Marc:The next performance, I guess we're...

00:07:17Marc:We're skipping a week for some reason, but I will be there May 24th, May 31st, June 7th, June 14th, June 21st, June 28th.

00:07:29Marc:Then July 7th, I'm at the Spokane Comedy Club.

00:07:33Marc:All right, and that's July 7th and 8th.

00:07:35Marc:And then I'll be, oh, and 9th too.

00:07:38Marc:7th, 8th, and 9th at Spokane Comedy Club.

00:07:41Marc:I'll be at Wise Guys in Utah, July 14th.

00:07:44Marc:That's in Salt Lake City and 15th.

00:07:48Marc:Where else?

00:07:48Marc:The Comedy Club, Rochester, New York, September 9th, 10th.

00:07:52Marc:And that's it.

00:07:54Marc:All right?

00:07:55Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for that information.

00:08:00Marc:So I'm trying to get into jazz.

00:08:02Marc:That's my new, like I've done this many points in time in my life where you're like, you know, I like jazz, but I don't understand it.

00:08:09Marc:I'd like to understand more.

00:08:12Marc:So I got, like, you know, I'm reading a book.

00:08:15Marc:I'm reading Ben Ratliff's book about John Coltrane while I'm listening to John Coltrane.

00:08:21Marc:I just got this amazing, the complete prestige 10-inch LP collection of Miles Davis.

00:08:28Marc:These are all these prestige records before he became Miles Davis.

00:08:31Marc:It's beautiful.

00:08:32Marc:It's a beautiful fucking box.

00:08:34Marc:There's, like, 11 records.

00:08:36Marc:And...

00:08:38Marc:You know, so I'm getting into that.

00:08:39Marc:I figure if I start at the baseline and I saw that Miles movie and I think I told you about a lot of people don't don't like that Miles movie, but I don't come to it knowing a lot about Miles.

00:08:47Marc:And then once I realized that the movie wasn't really based on a true story as much as it was sort of a meditation on this period of Miles's life.

00:08:56Marc:where he didn't really create anything, that it's literally a film riff on that period.

00:09:04Marc:And it's funny.

00:09:05Marc:Don Shield does an amazing job making Miles a real character, but he is the later Miles, the Miles that's mostly in that movie, not young Miles in that movie in the flashbacks, but the Miles that is being depicted in the fictional jazz riff of a film,

00:09:21Marc:about this period in his life is somewhat of a comic character and done beautifully.

00:09:27Marc:I know a lot of people don't like the movie, but I don't know what the hell they expected out of it.

00:09:32Marc:It's a great performance and a pretty amazing movie.

00:09:35Marc:But this is my relationship with jazz.

00:09:37Marc:I can listen to it, but I think that I would get so much more out of it if I understood it more.

00:09:42Marc:like the bars, what rules are being broken, what makes the chord progression work the way it is, what are the foundations of it.

00:09:50Marc:But you know what this requires of me is some research and some homework.

00:09:55Marc:Like I'm reading Ratliff's book, and I know he's got other books about it, and there's other books to read about jazz, but sometimes I just glaze over it.

00:10:05Marc:When it comes to, you know, numbers and structures and things like that, I mean, I can appreciate the music, but I think my appreciation would be so much deeper if I just understood it more.

00:10:18Marc:But then I might go down the jazz rabbit hole and there's a never-ending bunch of records and people.

00:10:23Marc:I know the classics.

00:10:27Marc:But I don't know them deep enough.

00:10:29Marc:I need to get deep.

00:10:30Marc:I need to get deep with it.

00:10:32Marc:So I'm into that.

00:10:33Marc:That's what I'm doing.

00:10:34Marc:I'm doing a little of that.

00:10:35Marc:I'll let you know how that goes.

00:10:36Marc:It's also helping me with my grief.

00:10:39Marc:The jazz is.

00:10:40Marc:The lack of closure.

00:10:43Marc:Even though death is closure.

00:10:46Marc:I don't know.

00:10:47Marc:It lives on in your fucking heart.

00:10:50Marc:So let's talk to Natasha Leggero.

00:10:52Marc:All right.

00:10:53Marc:She's she's very funny.

00:10:55Marc:She's married to Moshe Kasher.

00:10:57Marc:She's on tour with him with Moshe starting next week and going through June.

00:11:01Marc:It's called the honeymoon tour.

00:11:03Marc:You can go to Natasha Leggero dot com.

00:11:06Marc:to see the tour dates and get tickets.

00:11:07Marc:Also, her Comedy Central show, Another Period, returns for its second season next month.

00:11:13Marc:I also wanted to tell you to go out and get the new comedy album by our friend Jeff Tate.

00:11:17Marc:It's called Jeff Tate Again, and you can get it on iTunes or wherever you get music.

00:11:21Marc:Jeff will be on WTF in a few weeks, but go listen to his album before he's on.

00:11:26Marc:He's a funny guy.

00:11:26Marc:But me and Natasha...

00:11:29Marc:She talks a lot, not a lot, but there's a story about Ari.

00:11:32Marc:And, you know, I sometimes there's a familiarity between me and my guests that don't that doesn't translate to you because you don't know who the fuck we're talking about.

00:11:40Marc:But in this shitty story, it's Ari Shaffir.

00:11:43Marc:So that's not surprising that Ari Shaffir is involved in a shitty story.

00:11:47Marc:And I think he'd be the first to tell you that.

00:11:50Marc:So when we start talking about Ari, that's the Ari.

00:11:52Marc:All right.

00:11:52Marc:This is me and Natasha Leggero.

00:11:56you

00:12:10Marc:You're not going to be mean to me, are you?

00:12:11Marc:What do you mean?

00:12:12Marc:Why the fuck would I be mean to you?

00:12:13Guest:Because you never had me on.

00:12:14Marc:I never had you on?

00:12:17Marc:Yeah.

00:12:17Marc:Well, didn't we do a live one?

00:12:19Marc:Weren't you on a live WTF at some point?

00:12:21Guest:Oh, that was WTF?

00:12:23Marc:Yeah, it was like at UCB.

00:12:25Marc:It was nothing personal.

00:12:27Guest:Good.

00:12:27Marc:I mean, like, I don't have anything against you.

00:12:30Marc:Why would you think I would be the mean one?

00:12:32Marc:You're the one who's like, better keep this guy at a distance.

00:12:37That's not me.

00:12:38Marc:What do you know?

00:12:40Marc:All right.

00:12:40Guest:I mean, I don't know anyone who hasn't done this podcast.

00:12:43Marc:Oh, well, you know, I get around everybody.

00:12:45Marc:I'm glad to be here.

00:12:47Marc:I'm trying to think when I first met you, you're probably with Ari.

00:12:51Marc:And then the next time I think I met you at this store, maybe with him a million years ago.

00:12:55Marc:Then the next time you were living in some expansive estate with Duncan.

00:13:00Marc:Remember the estate?

00:13:01Guest:That's that's my house.

00:13:03Guest:And that's not an estate.

00:13:04Marc:It's still your house?

00:13:05Guest:Yeah.

00:13:06Marc:Oh, it seemed like in my mind it was an estate.

00:13:08Guest:It just has a big yard.

00:13:10Marc:Yeah, but it has it like you've decorated it so nicely.

00:13:13Guest:I have a talent in that way.

00:13:14Marc:Yeah, and I felt like this is posh.

00:13:18Marc:This is like very thought out.

00:13:20Guest:It's just a talent.

00:13:22Marc:Yeah?

00:13:23Guest:Yeah, I can make a place.

00:13:24Guest:I used to make my dorm rooms look great.

00:13:26Marc:Well, hold on.

00:13:29Guest:An estate.

00:13:33Guest:It's like a 1,400 square foot house.

00:13:35Marc:It is?

00:13:36Guest:Yes.

00:13:37Marc:I was there one time and I just have this memory of it.

00:13:39Marc:I'm like, wow, how are they living here?

00:13:41Guest:I know, and I have a memory of you coming up to me and you're like, whose deal is this?

00:13:45Guest:Who's living this?

00:13:47Guest:And I was like, what do you mean?

00:13:49Guest:And you're like, I mean, what's this?

00:13:50Guest:What's with this?

00:13:51Guest:Who's this?

00:13:52Guest:And I was like, this is my house.

00:13:53Guest:And you're like, oh, yeah, figures.

00:13:54Guest:Or you walked away.

00:13:55Marc:Really?

00:13:55Guest:Or maybe you didn't say figures.

00:13:57Marc:No, I don't sound like I say figures.

00:13:59Marc:Because there was a time where I don't understand that my assumption is it's like, where'd she get a million dollars to just buy it?

00:14:08Marc:okay okay like that's how my brain used to work but i'm kind of successful i know you are and then i knew that i know you're successful and i know people can rent houses they can buy houses people do all kinds what i know you're successful but um but now you're there now you got another guy just you're good you're like me just kind of move guys through good for you well i married this one oh once you get married

00:14:34Guest:October.

00:14:35Marc:Was that public information?

00:14:37Guest:Yeah.

00:14:38Marc:A very fashionable couple.

00:14:40Marc:He's one of the more fashionable men I know without being gay.

00:14:43Guest:Yeah, he has an aesthetic appreciation.

00:14:45Marc:He does have an aesthetic.

00:14:47Marc:But I remember him when he was all white hip-hop guy wearing hoodies.

00:14:52Guest:Me too, and I wasn't attracted to him.

00:14:54Marc:No, there was nothing attractive about him.

00:14:56Marc:And then he got... He was difficult to be around it.

00:14:59Marc:Like, as a comic, even, you're like, this is just making me uncomfortable.

00:15:02Marc:He needs to land on something.

00:15:04Guest:Well, then he just grew out the sides of his hair.

00:15:07Guest:And then I saw that he was cute.

00:15:09Marc:Right.

00:15:09Guest:Because he would, like, shave the sides, kind of hip-hop style.

00:15:12Marc:Right.

00:15:13Marc:Yeah.

00:15:13Guest:I just... I can't.

00:15:14Guest:I wasn't...

00:15:15Marc:Like, the first time I saw him was in San Francisco, and he middled for me, I think, and he just seemed so angry.

00:15:21Guest:But don't you find we all kind of relax?

00:15:24Guest:Like, I feel like I used to be so ambitious.

00:15:27Guest:I couldn't, like, I couldn't be in a room with people who were successful, and, like, I was just freaking out all the time.

00:15:34Marc:Like, you felt smaller than them?

00:15:35Marc:Like, you know, like, I'm not doing well?

00:15:37Guest:All the time.

00:15:38Marc:Right, every party just meant I'm failing?

00:15:40Guest:Yes.

00:15:40Guest:And whenever I'd see a famous person, I try to start talking to them and like, I'm just like you.

00:15:44Guest:And then they would like, you know, shoo me away.

00:15:47Marc:You should see my estate.

00:15:50Guest:I mean, having a nice house, just landing in like the right situation, though, does kind of it kind of like made me not as ambitious because I'm like, I want to die here.

00:16:00Marc:Right, and also you find out that you can have nice things and it's not always about being a movie star, right?

00:16:08Guest:Right.

00:16:09Marc:But I don't know, you've been doing comedy a long time, right?

00:16:14Guest:Since 2002.

00:16:15Marc:So that's like 14 years?

00:16:17Guest:Yeah, I remember I would come see you.

00:16:19Guest:You were inspiring to me when I started.

00:16:21Guest:You had like a show at the Knitting Factory.

00:16:23Guest:You were doing like a one-person show.

00:16:24Marc:Oh, did I?

00:16:25Marc:When they had that Knitting Factory?

00:16:28Guest:Because Mishnah and I kind of started together.

00:16:32Marc:Right, exactly.

00:16:33Guest:So we would do an open mic every Monday.

00:16:35Marc:Right, that's where I met you with her.

00:16:36Guest:And everyone's like, that's Marc Maron's wife.

00:16:38Guest:That's Marc Maron's wife.

00:16:40Marc:She's not too happy about that now.

00:16:43Yeah.

00:16:43Marc:That's her biggest nightmare.

00:16:45Guest:Doesn't she have a baby, though?

00:16:46Marc:I think she has two.

00:16:47Guest:Wow.

00:16:48Marc:I think.

00:16:48Marc:I don't know.

00:16:48Marc:That's right.

00:16:49Marc:I think I met you.

00:16:50Marc:There used to be that open mic in the valley at the B something, like a little coffee shop.

00:16:54Guest:I don't know how I did open mics all the time.

00:16:57Marc:Well, you wanted it.

00:16:58Marc:You're a real comic person.

00:16:59Marc:And it's sort of interesting what happened to you was at some point, and I don't always see this.

00:17:07Marc:You know, people get funny, you know, from when they start.

00:17:11Marc:Like some people are like, that's not quite funny yet.

00:17:13Marc:That person's, you know, getting there.

00:17:15Marc:But like you're one of those people that all of a sudden just had a whole thing.

00:17:20Marc:You know what I mean?

00:17:21Marc:Like you were just a comic doing your jokes and looking cute.

00:17:24Marc:And then all of a sudden it's like she's got a whole point of view and she dresses a certain way.

00:17:28Marc:And there's like a production.

00:17:30Marc:You're like.

00:17:31Guest:But that was always instinctual.

00:17:33Guest:Like I just started.

00:17:34Guest:I know.

00:17:35Marc:Right.

00:17:35Marc:And I think it's great when all that shit comes together.

00:17:38Guest:Like I just needed a stage to stand on to like do my thing.

00:17:42Marc:Figure out how it all comes together.

00:17:43Guest:Right.

00:17:44Guest:Like I remember I remember my instinct when I did my first open mic was to wear like a dress and gloves.

00:17:49Guest:And I was like, what if I bomb?

00:17:51Guest:I can't like bomb in like a hat.

00:17:53Guest:And like, did you though?

00:17:57Guest:Well, no, I waited.

00:17:58Guest:I waited like two years to ease into it.

00:18:01Marc:So you had it almost like you knew you wanted to be a certain place, but you wanted to make sure it wouldn't make you look too stupid?

00:18:08Guest:Yeah, well, because I had just started, but I wanted to, because I had this way of being just from living in New York and then moving to LA and being like, are people this stupid?

00:18:21Guest:I just had a reaction to LA, because I had come from acting school.

00:18:25Marc:Well, let's go through that.

00:18:26Marc:So where'd you grow up?

00:18:28Guest:Rockford, Illinois.

00:18:29Marc:How close is that to Chicago?

00:18:31Guest:An hour and a half.

00:18:32Marc:Oh, so it's far.

00:18:33Guest:It's not a suburb.

00:18:34Marc:No.

00:18:35Guest:It's like cheap tricks from there.

00:18:37Marc:Oh, that puts it on the map.

00:18:39Guest:Now we know.

00:18:40Guest:But they're good.

00:18:40Guest:They're great.

00:18:41Marc:I mean, that's like the- Took me a long time to like them.

00:18:45Guest:I was listening to them last night.

00:18:46Marc:They're awesome.

00:18:47Marc:No, they are.

00:18:47Guest:They're so good.

00:18:48Marc:They are.

00:18:49Guest:I mean, not like the flame years, but like 75 to like 80, I guess.

00:18:55Marc:Yeah, no, it's great power pop.

00:18:56Marc:I just didn't like power pop as a young man.

00:18:58Guest:Oh, interesting.

00:18:59Marc:I was more of a real rock guy.

00:19:01Marc:Right.

00:19:02Marc:Don't throw that fourth chord in, man.

00:19:04Marc:Let's just keep it steady.

00:19:04Guest:Okay.

00:19:05Marc:Okay.

00:19:06Marc:Yeah.

00:19:06Marc:So cheap tricks from Rockford.

00:19:07Marc:Is there a statue?

00:19:09Guest:No.

00:19:10Guest:No, there's not.

00:19:10Marc:But everyone knew that?

00:19:11Marc:They're the ones that got out.

00:19:13Guest:Right, yeah.

00:19:14Marc:But is it rural?

00:19:15Marc:I don't know where Rockford is.

00:19:16Guest:It's like the second biggest city in Illinois.

00:19:19Marc:Oh, really?

00:19:19Guest:Yeah.

00:19:20Guest:So it's like 200,000 people.

00:19:21Guest:But now there's like...

00:19:23Guest:shooting like 10 shootings a week oh so it's arrived yeah it's not good horrible i don't even go home you don't and i've made fun of i've made fun of rockford a lot on tv like on the tonight show i made fun of it and then it got in the paper and natasha leggero is so you know ungrateful and they like to come after you yeah they just they are very mean pretty funny girls they haven't got it easy

00:19:47Guest:I mean, they also don't have it hard.

00:19:50Marc:But like for some reason, the sort of reaction, the kind of predatory press reaction and all those dumb dudes on comment boards, I've seen it.

00:19:59Marc:They like to really fucking be hard on women.

00:20:03Guest:Yeah, I guess.

00:20:05Marc:So wait, so how big was your family?

00:20:08Guest:Two boys and me.

00:20:10Guest:Really?

00:20:11Guest:I was the oldest.

00:20:11Marc:You're the oldest sister?

00:20:13Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:20:13Marc:You're like the old sister?

00:20:14Guest:Yeah, like I would take care of them.

00:20:16Marc:Really?

00:20:16Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:20:17Marc:Well, how much younger?

00:20:18Guest:Like two years and five years younger.

00:20:21Marc:Five years younger, that's a lot.

00:20:23Guest:And my mom was single, you know, so I would like- Oh, really?

00:20:26Guest:Take care of the children.

00:20:27Marc:She was single with all three?

00:20:29Marc:Yeah.

00:20:29Marc:So she had three and then broke up and then shit went bad?

00:20:31Guest:Yeah, it was bad.

00:20:32Guest:And then my mom had, like one of my brothers was like really bad.

00:20:37Guest:What do you mean?

00:20:37Guest:you know, like shaved his head, would start barking like a dog.

00:20:43Guest:Like he was just like on the, like he came out of the womb like he was in a bar fight.

00:20:48Guest:Like he was always bad.

00:20:50Guest:Like would make her, just drive her crazy.

00:20:52Guest:He got kicked out of every school.

00:20:54Marc:What happened to the dad?

00:20:58Guest:I mean...

00:20:59Marc:Is he around?

00:21:01Guest:Not anymore.

00:21:01Guest:I mean, he's alive.

00:21:02Marc:Oh, he's alive.

00:21:03Guest:Okay.

00:21:03Guest:I mean, I remember being like four and my dad with his cleaning being like, see you, kid.

00:21:07Marc:Oh, really?

00:21:09Guest:That dad?

00:21:10Guest:Good luck with everything.

00:21:11Guest:Yeah, and I was like, bye.

00:21:12Marc:That wasn't the day you left, though.

00:21:13Guest:Yeah, that was when he left.

00:21:14Guest:That was it?

00:21:15Guest:Yeah.

00:21:16Marc:Oh, my God.

00:21:17Guest:But, I mean, don't you think most comics have that kind of love from only one parent?

00:21:22Guest:Or they're missing that love?

00:21:23Marc:Or they're missing, yeah.

00:21:25Marc:I found that.

00:21:27Guest:Not funny people.

00:21:27Guest:Like, there's a lot of improvisers who are very loved.

00:21:29Marc:That's a good point.

00:21:31Marc:So you've done some, you're a thinky person.

00:21:33Marc:Yeah, no, that's true that the improvisers learn how to work with other people and they seem well adjusted.

00:21:37Guest:They say yes and comics say no.

00:21:39Marc:Right, yeah, but also they like to hang around with everybody.

00:21:41Guest:Oh, they love it.

00:21:42Guest:We're all on stage together.

00:21:43Guest:Let's play.

00:21:44Guest:It was so fun playing with you.

00:21:47Guest:They're doing like energy circles before the show and then you get comics and we're all just like, what the fuck is that?

00:21:54Marc:Don't talk to me.

00:21:55Marc:Can we just clear the stage?

00:21:56Marc:There's still some props left out there.

00:21:59Marc:But that's true.

00:22:00Guest:But I love that.

00:22:01Guest:I mean, that's why comics are so fun.

00:22:03Guest:I feel so lucky I've got to hang out with them for...

00:22:05Marc:Yeah.

00:22:05Guest:The past decade.

00:22:06Marc:But that's so true about those people.

00:22:08Marc:They do seem better adjusted than us.

00:22:10Marc:The sketch people.

00:22:11Guest:They are.

00:22:12Marc:Yeah.

00:22:12Marc:They go to pretty good schools usually and they know what they want early on and they go through all these different hurdles.

00:22:19Marc:Like, I didn't fucking know how to do... They get married.

00:22:22Marc:They're like...

00:22:23Marc:They have children that they can deal with.

00:22:26Guest:Yeah.

00:22:27Marc:I don't know what it is, but I do think that, yeah, absent fathers or absent, emotionally absent parents does seem to be a theme, not with everybody.

00:22:35Marc:So you never had a relationship with your dad?

00:22:37Marc:That was it?

00:22:38Guest:I mean, he's, we're, you know, he came, you know, yeah, we talk.

00:22:42Marc:Yeah.

00:22:43Guest:He's cool.

00:22:44Marc:Okay.

00:22:46Guest:What?

00:22:46Guest:He's cool.

00:22:48Marc:Look, I'm not trying to, you know, dig into- This is a popular podcast, so, you know.

00:22:52Marc:Yeah, I understand.

00:22:53Marc:You're being diplomatic.

00:22:54Guest:No, he's, you know, my mom didn't like him.

00:22:59Marc:Yeah, right.

00:23:00Guest:So my mom was like- Right.

00:23:01Guest:She raised us.

00:23:03Guest:Right.

00:23:03Guest:So, you know, when he would come pick us up, I would hide under the bed.

00:23:06Marc:Right, your team mom.

00:23:07Marc:I get it.

00:23:07Marc:There's nothing wrong with that.

00:23:09Marc:It's reasonable.

00:23:10Marc:Okay, so what did your brothers end up doing?

00:23:13Guest:My brother, Louie, he lives in a van that he put an address on in Rockford.

00:23:19Marc:He's the one that came out fighting?

00:23:20Guest:Yeah.

00:23:21Marc:Is he all right though?

00:23:23Guest:I mean, no.

00:23:24Guest:Well, he's like a talented builder.

00:23:27Guest:Yeah.

00:23:27Guest:But I tried to bring him to Thanksgiving last year.

00:23:31Guest:Out here?

00:23:32Guest:Yeah.

00:23:32Guest:And so to meet Moshe's parents.

00:23:34Guest:And Moshe's stepfather is a classically trained pianist.

00:23:40Guest:And my brother comes in at 12, noon, drunk.

00:23:44Guest:Yeah.

00:23:44Guest:He's playing the piano most.

00:23:45Guest:His daddy moves him over, tries to start teaching him bad to the bone.

00:23:49Guest:And he doesn't know it.

00:23:51Guest:And he's got to drink a case of old Milwaukee every day.

00:23:55Guest:He can't drink Trader Joe's beer or anything because it hurts his esophagus.

00:24:00Guest:He's figured out a way to function drinking a case of beer a day.

00:24:05Marc:Sure.

00:24:06Marc:Yeah.

00:24:07Marc:There's a name for that.

00:24:09Yeah.

00:24:09Guest:But I feel like he needed to be in programs and on medication his whole life, and he never was.

00:24:16Marc:So it's just it is what it is.

00:24:18Guest:Yeah.

00:24:18Marc:What about the other one?

00:24:19Guest:Wait, and by the way, he lives in this van, this trailer, and he's got one TV here that has the internet and then one TV on the other side that has a TV.

00:24:28Guest:Right.

00:24:29Guest:And he was telling me the story of how he was making ramen because it's in Illinois, so it's freezing.

00:24:36Guest:He has no heat.

00:24:37Guest:Right.

00:24:37Guest:So he'll take like a thing of water that's frozen and just be banging it, trying to like thaw out enough to like, I mean, it's just like the way he's living is.

00:24:45Marc:It's a little crazy.

00:24:47Guest:Insanity.

00:24:48Marc:And does he not want to live another way?

00:24:51Guest:I guess not.

00:24:52Guest:I mean, I don't know.

00:24:52Guest:That's as close to I've been to like an addict.

00:24:56Guest:So I don't I mean, I don't really talk to him much.

00:24:59Marc:Right.

00:25:00Marc:But now you go out with a guy who's a sober person.

00:25:03Guest:That's true.

00:25:04Marc:So you're compelled.

00:25:06Marc:But it's different when someone's active.

00:25:08Marc:It's a little hard.

00:25:09Guest:Yeah, active.

00:25:10Marc:Yeah.

00:25:10Marc:How's the other one?

00:25:11Guest:He's a rapper.

00:25:12Marc:Really?

00:25:13Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:25:13Guest:And he lives in LA.

00:25:16Marc:Well, Moshe must like that.

00:25:19Marc:Moshe does like hip hop.

00:25:22Marc:And how's he doing?

00:25:22Marc:How's his rapping going?

00:25:24Guest:Uh, he, well, he works, he writes music for another period, the show I'm doing.

00:25:28Guest:So that's good.

00:25:29Guest:You brought him in.

00:25:29Guest:I brought him in because he's really great at making beats.

00:25:33Guest:So he figured out how to do these classical beats or classical music and then use, you know, make them.

00:25:39Guest:And what show, what shows this?

00:25:41Guest:It's, uh, my TV show called another period that I, uh, have you ever heard of it?

00:25:46Marc:Don't make it awkward.

00:25:47Marc:I've seen you on a lot of things.

00:25:49Guest:Okay, so it's called Another Period.

00:25:51Guest:It's on Comedy Central.

00:25:52Marc:Yeah.

00:25:53Guest:Do you not want to hear about it?

00:25:55Marc:I absolutely do.

00:25:55Marc:I feel bad.

00:25:56Guest:It's okay.

00:25:57Marc:And it's on Comedy Central.

00:25:58Guest:It's on Comedy Central.

00:25:59Guest:It's starring me and Ricky Lindholm and Michael Ian Black and David Wayne and Christina Hendricks.

00:26:04Guest:That's a good... Armin Weitzman and Brian Husky, Beth Dover, Tom Lennon.

00:26:11Marc:That's great.

00:26:12Guest:Takes place in 1902.

00:26:13Guest:It's a fake reality show.

00:26:14Guest:Basically, it's like if the Kardashians lived at Downton.

00:26:19Guest:And we're trying to get famous, but it's 1902, so it's really hard.

00:26:22Marc:Oh, that's funny.

00:26:24Marc:And you're working with Michael Ian Black a lot.

00:26:26Guest:Oh, my God.

00:26:27Guest:He's pretty much the lead.

00:26:29Guest:He's our butler, Peepers.

00:26:30Guest:And he is just... He's such a brilliant actor.

00:26:33Marc:That show looks great.

00:26:34Guest:It's awesome.

00:26:35Guest:I'm surprised you.

00:26:36Guest:That concerns me.

00:26:38Marc:I don't watch what?

00:26:39Marc:I didn't get the trailer?

00:26:40Guest:Know that people like you don't know about the show.

00:26:43Marc:I don't know anything.

00:26:44Marc:Don't judge by me.

00:26:45Marc:I live in this weird vacuum that very few things kind of like what pushes through.

00:26:50Marc:I have very little time to do anything.

00:26:53Marc:And I end up like I watch Better Call Saul.

00:26:56Marc:Like that's one that I've been watching.

00:26:58Marc:And I force myself to watch vinyl.

00:27:02Guest:Did you watch all of vinyl?

00:27:03Marc:I did.

00:27:03Guest:It was a little cheesy for me.

00:27:05Marc:Yeah, it was not good.

00:27:06Guest:Dice was good in it, though.

00:27:07Marc:Dice is great.

00:27:09Guest:You know I'm on his show, too?

00:27:10Marc:I do know that.

00:27:12Marc:I know a lot of the shows you're on.

00:27:13Guest:Have you had Dice on the show?

00:27:14Guest:Yes, I have.

00:27:15Guest:Okay, because he's fascinating.

00:27:16Marc:I love Dice.

00:27:17Guest:He would tell me the craziest stories.

00:27:19Guest:He would say he did Madison Square Garden.

00:27:23Marc:That's his favorite story.

00:27:24Guest:No, but here's what I didn't understand about it.

00:27:26Guest:He sells out Madison Square Garden.

00:27:29Guest:He's at the peak of his life.

00:27:31Guest:The very next morning, the New York Times was like the decline of civilization with a picture of his face, and it was just downhill from there.

00:27:39Guest:And so it's so hard to imagine that.

00:27:42Marc:What's fascinating about him is that he really wanted to be an actor.

00:27:47Marc:If you listen to the Dice interview, is that he got into it because he wanted to be an actor.

00:27:53Marc:And then he became this huge comic.

00:27:54Marc:But he's a very good actor.

00:27:56Marc:But he talks about returning to Madison Square Garden.

00:27:58Marc:That's his dream, I think, is to sell Madison Square Garden out again.

00:28:02Marc:He is...

00:28:03Guest:That's yeah.

00:28:04Marc:As as when he was at his peak, I didn't love him as much as I like him now.

00:28:08Marc:Like I like I like to watch him do stand up now because he's not as the affectation is sort of gone.

00:28:13Marc:He doesn't do the character as committed.

00:28:15Marc:And he's just this dude that has very specific way of seeing things and of style.

00:28:20Marc:I just like listening to him talk about shit.

00:28:22Guest:I mean, those are the best comics because they have such a unique point of view.

00:28:26Guest:They're like these rare birds.

00:28:27Guest:You're like, wait, this is how you think about things?

00:28:29Guest:Yeah.

00:28:30Guest:I remember we had to watch this Chris Angel show.

00:28:34Marc:The magic show?

00:28:35Guest:Yeah.

00:28:36Guest:It was like one of the episodes.

00:28:37Guest:And we were just sitting there hanging out.

00:28:39Guest:You and Dice?

00:28:40Guest:Yeah.

00:28:41Guest:And then this woman comes up.

00:28:42Guest:They have to get a woman from the audience.

00:28:44Guest:And she comes up, and she's pretty.

00:28:45Guest:And Dice just goes to me.

00:28:46Guest:It's not even on camera.

00:28:47Guest:He's like, ugh, with the flats.

00:28:50What?

00:28:50Guest:Why do women have to wear flats?

00:28:52Guest:And it's like, he was so upset by this.

00:28:54Guest:Like, it's like what women have to be in high heels all the time.

00:28:58Guest:Like, that's just how, I mean, but he's also like, he was very giving and, you know, he's like a very emotional and vulnerable person.

00:29:05Guest:He loves his wife and he's so close to his family.

00:29:09Marc:Yeah, I had his kid in.

00:29:10Marc:I had both of them in.

00:29:10Marc:He's like one of these weirdly misunderstood people, because there's a persona, and then there's him, and they're kind of the same, but there's a lot more depth to the him.

00:29:21Guest:Oh, he's very deep.

00:29:22Guest:Yeah.

00:29:23Guest:But he's hilarious.

00:29:24Guest:No, he's very funny.

00:29:25Guest:He's very funny intentionally.

00:29:26Guest:He's very funny unintentionally.

00:29:28Guest:Like his girlfriend, she's massaging him, and he's like...

00:29:33Guest:I need my back massage.

00:29:34Guest:Your mom needs to massage my back.

00:29:36Guest:She knows how to work the area.

00:29:37Guest:You do my feet.

00:29:38Guest:It's like he's got her whole family giving him massage it.

00:29:42Marc:It's a character.

00:29:43Marc:Yes.

00:29:44Marc:All right.

00:29:45Marc:So you grow up.

00:29:46Marc:Your brother's a rapper.

00:29:47Marc:One lives in a van.

00:29:49Marc:Your mom, how did she get by the whole time you guys were growing up?

00:29:51Guest:She was like a secretary at a locksmith.

00:29:54Marc:Is she still around?

00:29:55Guest:Yes.

00:29:56Marc:Are you guys good?

00:29:57Guest:Yes.

00:29:58Marc:That's nice.

00:29:59Marc:So you go to high school in Rockford.

00:30:03Guest:Yeah.

00:30:04Marc:And then you want to be an actress.

00:30:06Marc:How do you know?

00:30:07Marc:Or you want to be a comic?

00:30:07Guest:Because I was like a child actor.

00:30:10Guest:So I was also in theater there.

00:30:11Marc:You were.

00:30:12Guest:So I was like in the professional theater in Rockford.

00:30:15Guest:So I was like- How old?

00:30:17Guest:like eight years old and five.

00:30:19Guest:Oh, really?

00:30:20Marc:Like doing like the Nutcracker and the kid in the community theater plays or what?

00:30:23Guest:Well, it was like called regional theater, so it was like half professional actors from Chicago and then half like, you know.

00:30:28Guest:Yeah.

00:30:29Guest:So I would play like the child in Inherit the Wind and then the child in As You Like It and the child, you know, whatever play they needed a child to run around in, I would do that.

00:30:39Guest:And it would be like 30 performances, so I got to miss school.

00:30:42Guest:And you loved it.

00:30:43Guest:I loved it and I just wanted to like- And you're getting paid?

00:30:46Guest:I did not get paid.

00:30:48Marc:The child doesn't get paid.

00:30:50Guest:I think the non-professional, in regional theater, at least how it was worked out there.

00:30:55Guest:But then I remember I would see the actors who would come from Chicago and they all looked so poor.

00:30:59Guest:None of them knew how to dress.

00:31:01Guest:And I was like, maybe I don't want to be an actor.

00:31:03Guest:Yeah.

00:31:04Guest:And then I just loved doing that.

00:31:08Guest:And I, you know, and my home life was not fun.

00:31:10Guest:And so I just always was like, I just need to hurry up and go do that somewhere.

00:31:14Marc:Get out.

00:31:14Guest:I remember working at a grocery store and just like staring at the clock and just being like, when?

00:31:19Guest:What were you doing at the grocery store?

00:31:20Guest:When is my life going to start?

00:31:22Guest:Just working.

00:31:22Marc:Yeah?

00:31:23Guest:Like having a job.

00:31:24Marc:Like what?

00:31:24Marc:Like putting price tags on shit?

00:31:26Guest:No, like the cashier.

00:31:28Guest:I was a cashier.

00:31:29Marc:At the supermarket?

00:31:29Marc:Yeah.

00:31:30Guest:Yeah, and I had a paper route.

00:31:31Marc:You had a paper route?

00:31:32Guest:I mowed lawns.

00:31:34Marc:You did?

00:31:34Guest:I did everything.

00:31:35Guest:But you're tiny.

00:31:37Guest:It doesn't matter.

00:31:37Marc:With a lawnmower?

00:31:39Guest:That was the dumbest one.

00:31:42Marc:Yeah, I guess.

00:31:44Marc:Whose lawnmower did you use?

00:31:46Guest:I think I had one.

00:31:47Marc:The family lawnmower?

00:31:49Guest:Or maybe I would use the one at the person's house.

00:31:52Guest:My mother was very into me working.

00:31:54Marc:To teach you something or you needed money?

00:31:58Guest:Probably both.

00:31:59Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:00Marc:Well, that's good to have a good work ethic.

00:32:02Guest:Yeah.

00:32:02Guest:No, actually, I think it helped.

00:32:03Marc:Absolutely.

00:32:05Guest:What do rich people do now with their kids?

00:32:07Marc:I don't know.

00:32:07Marc:It's not easy.

00:32:08Marc:I mean, I listen to Judd Apatow talk about it on stage.

00:32:11Marc:I think that the tricky thing with that is rich people, they want their kids to have everything, but they also want them to be responsible people.

00:32:18Marc:It's a hard thing to do to spoil a kid and also instill something that isn't just blatant entitlement.

00:32:26Guest:Right, and then how do you make your kid get a paper route when you're like a multi-millionaire?

00:32:30Guest:It must be strange.

00:32:32Marc:Well, Judd does this joke about how I want my kids to learn things, but I'm not gonna sacrifice my comfort.

00:32:39Marc:I'm not gonna fly coach so they have values.

00:32:44Guest:Right.

00:32:45Guest:God, I had to pay for my own college.

00:32:47Guest:It took me nine years to graduate from college because I had to pay for it.

00:32:50Guest:So I was living in New York eventually.

00:32:52Marc:So wait, you go to high school in Rockford?

00:32:54Guest:So I went to high school in Rockford.

00:32:55Marc:And you acted and stuff and plays?

00:32:57Guest:And then I thought I'd get into Juilliard.

00:32:59Marc:You did?

00:33:00Guest:So I thought if I sent him my picture, my resume.

00:33:03Marc:Were you acting in high school?

00:33:04Guest:Yeah.

00:33:05Guest:Like I kept doing this theater thing.

00:33:06Marc:No comedy though?

00:33:07Guest:No comedy.

00:33:08Marc:So you're doing theater and you think you're going to get into Juilliard?

00:33:11Guest:From my picture.

00:33:12Marc:Yeah.

00:33:12Marc:Oh yeah?

00:33:13Marc:Was it a headshot or just a picture?

00:33:14Guest:No, it was a headshot.

00:33:16Guest:Like taken by a local Rockford photographer.

00:33:18Marc:Sure, sure.

00:33:19Marc:I did that with Yale after college.

00:33:21Marc:I wanted to go to Yale graduate school and I thought I'd be cocky and make an impression and I sent a strip from a photo booth.

00:33:28Guest:Wait, you thought you'd get into Yale just for, yeah.

00:33:30Marc:Well, I filled out the resume and stuff, but I wanted to be remembered.

00:33:33Marc:So I sent in this dumb fucking strip from a photo booth and my cocky little, like, I'm going to do this.

00:33:38Marc:And I tanked the audition.

00:33:39Guest:Don't you miss being like that?

00:33:41Guest:I wish I had.

00:33:42Guest:That was like.

00:33:42Marc:Terrified?

00:33:43Marc:No.

00:33:43Guest:Well, no, but also having that much confidence.

00:33:45Marc:No, it was just, it was.

00:33:47Guest:It's delusional, I guess.

00:33:48Marc:Yeah, it wasn't real confidence.

00:33:50Guest:Right.

00:33:50Marc:It was just like, you know, like, I thought I could, I thought I could charm them.

00:33:54Marc:Yeah.

00:33:54Guest:Yeah, me too.

00:33:56Marc:Yeah.

00:33:57Marc:So what happened?

00:33:57Guest:Well, because my dad's a used car salesman too.

00:33:59Guest:Is he?

00:33:59Guest:He's charming like that.

00:34:00Marc:Sure.

00:34:01Guest:And so I thought that, you know.

00:34:02Guest:Yeah.

00:34:03Guest:So I think I have some of that.

00:34:04Marc:We all do.

00:34:05Guest:Yeah.

00:34:05Marc:That's how we get through life as comedians.

00:34:07Guest:Yeah, I guess that is.

00:34:08Guest:A lot of charm.

00:34:09Guest:It is.

00:34:09Marc:Sure.

00:34:10Marc:Sure.

00:34:10Marc:That's a lot of it.

00:34:11Guest:So what happened with Juilliard?

00:34:12Guest:Oh, I did not get in.

00:34:14Guest:But did you go audition?

00:34:15Guest:I went and auditioned.

00:34:16Guest:So you're in high school.

00:34:17Guest:Did not even make the short list.

00:34:18Marc:But before you graduate, you take a trip to New York to audition?

00:34:21Guest:Chicago.

00:34:21Guest:I think they didn't.

00:34:22Guest:Because they would go to different cities.

00:34:23Marc:Right, right, right.

00:34:24Guest:Didn't get in there.

00:34:25Guest:And then I auditioned for something.

00:34:30Guest:And I got a scholarship to ISU.

00:34:32Guest:So I went to Illinois State University for two years.

00:34:35Guest:But I hated it so much that I just kept doing study abroad programs.

00:34:39Marc:Where'd you go?

00:34:40Guest:So I went to England.

00:34:41Marc:So you're at Illinois State and you signed up for the study abroad.

00:34:44Marc:You went to England for a whole semester?

00:34:46Guest:Went to England.

00:34:47Guest:It was awesome.

00:34:48Marc:You seem kind of groovy, England.

00:34:50Guest:Yeah, I got a job.

00:34:51Guest:I had three jobs there.

00:34:53Guest:I worked in a head shop.

00:34:55Guest:I worked at a pub.

00:34:58Marc:So you're in England for a semester, then you come back?

00:35:00Guest:Then I was in Illinois and I opened up backstage and I saw that Stella Adler Conservatory was auditioning in Chicago.

00:35:09Guest:And then I was like, I need to get out.

00:35:11Marc:You knew about her.

00:35:12Guest:Yeah.

00:35:13Guest:And so I auditioned and I got in and then I moved to New York and my mother was like, don't go to New York.

00:35:18Guest:It's going to be terrible.

00:35:19Guest:Something bad is going to happen.

00:35:21Guest:And I almost didn't go.

00:35:22Guest:And then I went.

00:35:23Guest:And then after that, I was like, oh, you shouldn't ever listen to anybody.

00:35:27Marc:You should just do your own thing.

00:35:29Marc:Well, they're worried about themselves.

00:35:31Marc:She's your mom.

00:35:32Marc:She's worried about you, but it's easier for her if you're nearby.

00:35:35Guest:I guess.

00:35:36Marc:Yeah.

00:35:37Guest:But I needed to get out of there.

00:35:38Marc:Sure you did.

00:35:39Guest:So then I went to New York and, you know.

00:35:41Marc:What?

00:35:42Marc:What was the studying like?

00:35:43Marc:You were with Stella Adler for two years?

00:35:45Marc:How long?

00:35:45Marc:How did it work?

00:35:46Guest:I went there for two years.

00:35:47Guest:I say they taught me how to be a working actor in the 1800s.

00:35:50Guest:Like, it was like, to the back of the auditorium, Natasha, two totes who are terribly tired.

00:35:54Guest:We did, like, fencing.

00:35:55Guest:It was just like... That's when I... It was a real conservatory.

00:36:00Guest:Yes.

00:36:00Guest:Like, we would do, like, Chekhov and Shakespeare styles.

00:36:04Marc:Yeah?

00:36:05Marc:You didn't like that?

00:36:07Guest:Well, I liked it fine, but then I moved to L.A.

00:36:09Guest:and I would be like.

00:36:10Marc:Yeah, but it probably served you pretty well to get all that shit in place.

00:36:13Guest:It helped me come up with, you know, how I talk.

00:36:16Marc:You had to come up with that?

00:36:17Guest:I became more sophisticated, you know, because I don't have like an Illinois accent.

00:36:21Marc:No, you had to exercise that, get it out of you.

00:36:25Guest:Kind of.

00:36:26Marc:What does that sound like?

00:36:28Guest:You know, like a Rockford accent.

00:36:29Guest:It's just kind of more like that.

00:36:31Guest:Like, you know, you got your Aunt Kathy and Tosh.

00:36:34Guest:Hey, Tosh.

00:36:35Guest:Like my mom, you know.

00:36:37Guest:Is that funny, too?

00:36:39Guest:I mean, I reinvented myself, Mark.

00:36:43Marc:So a lot of energy has gone into erasing the past.

00:36:48Guest:That's true.

00:36:49Guest:That's true.

00:36:50Guest:And I also... You're put together.

00:36:52Marc:Yeah.

00:36:53Guest:Right.

00:36:55Guest:Well, I also had this, I've had like, I had this encounter with this man who was like older when I was like 22.

00:37:01Guest:When I was in New York, I met this guy who was Australian and he was like 42 when I was 22.

00:37:07Guest:Wow.

00:37:08Guest:And I gave up my apartment, my rent controlled apartment.

00:37:11Marc:That does not sound like an encounter.

00:37:12Guest:And I moved to Australia to be with him.

00:37:16Guest:But I thought he was like so sophisticated and I got there and he was like a con artist.

00:37:21Guest:And so I kind of like.

00:37:22Marc:Whoa, whoa, back up.

00:37:23Marc:So you're in New York.

00:37:24Marc:You're being, you're at the conservatory.

00:37:25Marc:You're finishing up, I guess.

00:37:26Guest:Yes.

00:37:27Marc:And you meet this guy.

00:37:28Guest:And I'm like, God, these guys are so lame in New York.

00:37:30Guest:Like I want someone who knows like what a wine list looks like and how to read, you know, like how to read a wine list.

00:37:35Guest:And like, I just wanted someone sophisticated.

00:37:37Marc:You're just so classic, like small city.

00:37:40Guest:I know.

00:37:40Marc:Fucking trashy.

00:37:41Marc:Like I want out.

00:37:43Marc:Where's my jet?

00:37:45No.

00:37:46Guest:So I meet this guy and he was like, he kind of looked like Mick Jagger.

00:37:49Guest:He had this cool striped blazer and he was really self-spoken.

00:37:53Guest:Where'd you meet him?

00:37:54Guest:At the bar I worked at, the whiskey bar.

00:37:56Guest:And he was like, I just came back from this new festival called Burning Man.

00:38:01Guest:And it was like the first year of Burning Man.

00:38:03Guest:Yeah.

00:38:03Guest:He was like, I'm making a documentary on the information superhighway, which was the internet.

00:38:08Guest:Sure.

00:38:08Guest:And then, obviously, and then he was like, I do book reviews for the Australian financial... You know, he did book reviews.

00:38:15Guest:He was an intellectual property lawyer.

00:38:17Guest:He was like this amazing... Like, he just was fascinating to me.

00:38:19Marc:Yeah.

00:38:20Marc:And so then... Like, immediately just...

00:38:22Guest:I was just like, oh, my God, I can't believe I met this person.

00:38:25Guest:And then we had a few dates.

00:38:26Guest:He would, like, take me to, like, what's that hotel that he always wanted to go to?

00:38:31Guest:What's the famous Dorothy Park?

00:38:32Guest:Oh, the Algonquin.

00:38:33Guest:Oh, sure.

00:38:33Guest:We'd meet at the Algonquin.

00:38:36Guest:Oh, boy.

00:38:37Guest:He had your number.

00:38:38Guest:And we'd eat at the Ivy.

00:38:39Guest:And so then we started this, like, exchange.

00:38:41Guest:He went back to Australia, and I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to be with this man.

00:38:45Guest:And then finally I gave up all my stuff, and I went there.

00:38:47Guest:I was, like, 22.

00:38:49Guest:And then I got there, and it was, like...

00:38:51Guest:And he like I got there because like in my mind, I'm like, we're going to go to literary parties.

00:38:59Guest:This is going to be like because he does book reviews and he's a lawyer and he must be rich.

00:39:04Guest:And so I get there and it's like his part.

00:39:07Guest:First, he picks me up at the airport and he looks worried.

00:39:09Guest:Yeah.

00:39:09Guest:You know, because I think he kind of couldn't believe I came.

00:39:13Guest:Like it kind of looked like he hadn't slept.

00:39:15Guest:Busted.

00:39:19Guest:Yeah.

00:39:19Guest:And my friends were like, Natasha, you know, like some of my older friends were like, I've known people like this.

00:39:24Guest:I don't think you should go.

00:39:25Guest:You know, and I'm like, no, no, I'm going to go.

00:39:27Guest:I'm going to go.

00:39:27Marc:They knew it was bullshit.

00:39:28Guest:well it was just like good to be true yeah right and so i get there and we're in this like he picks me up at the airport and he's like you know do you you know let me make you this he would always he was a gourmet cook so he was like made avocado with caviar and like you know he's always like feeding me caviar when you in new york or when in new york yeah so we get there and i'm like oh and we're gonna start eating caviar yeah and so i get there and it's like this little shack it's like not it's like a it's

00:39:53Guest:It's a fine little studio, right?

00:39:56Marc:That he is like- It's an apartment or a house?

00:39:57Guest:An apartment.

00:39:58Marc:Yeah.

00:39:58Guest:And he is draped like purple, like purple felt all over the walls to try to make it fancy.

00:40:04Marc:For you.

00:40:05Guest:Yeah.

00:40:05Guest:And there was like Ikea furniture and I was like kind of disoriented and I was like, because it was a flight from Australia.

00:40:11Guest:Sure.

00:40:11Guest:I'm just going to lay down.

00:40:12Guest:Yeah.

00:40:12Guest:So I laid down and then I woke up to-

00:40:15Guest:i woke up to the seinfeld theme song and i was like and he's like seinfeld starting and like he like just watched tv all day and so like i was in australia with this guy who i thought was like my dream man and he was oh my god and so be like and then he'd like john candy movie like he would just want to watch tv and not a not a bad guy is this hurting oh he was a really he was he was really bad

00:40:41Marc:No, it's hurting me because I feel bad for whatever that moment is where you take that trip.

00:40:46Marc:You're on a plane for 20 hours.

00:40:48Marc:You're disoriented.

00:40:49Marc:You have all these sort of princess expectations.

00:40:54Marc:And you just walk into something that is so not...

00:40:56Guest:Like cowhide print, like an easy chair and a barrel that we'd eat on.

00:41:02Marc:He must have just been leveled.

00:41:04Guest:I was pretty freaked out.

00:41:06Guest:And then it started.

00:41:08Guest:I couldn't answer the phones.

00:41:10Guest:He was getting money from other women, and he was just a crazy person.

00:41:15Guest:But what's interesting about him, why I talk about him right now, is because I feel like I kind of stole some of my persona from him.

00:41:21Guest:Because we were poor, but he was the most pretentious person.

00:41:25Guest:So you stayed there.

00:41:27Guest:I stayed there for like eight months and then brought him back to New York with me.

00:41:32Guest:Because I kind of fell in love with him, I guess.

00:41:36Marc:Because what was actually what should have been just like this whole bunch of like fuck you red flags once you got there, you were like, I can learn from this guy.

00:41:46Guest:Yeah, I thought I could learn from him.

00:41:48Marc:And you liked his, like he probably treated you really good.

00:41:52Marc:And then once he got you into his mindset, you're like, we can fucking, you know, we can pull some shit off.

00:41:58Guest:Right, we can conquer the world.

00:42:00Guest:But like the signs were like every day.

00:42:03Guest:We would get into like three fights a day.

00:42:05Guest:Like he would be like, don't use that.

00:42:07Guest:That's not the knife you use to butter the bread.

00:42:10Guest:Like he would get really mad at me for stuff like that.

00:42:12Marc:In his studio with purple curtains.

00:42:13Guest:Yes.

00:42:14Guest:And he would be like, I bring him his coffee in the morning and he'd be like, how can you expect me to look at that much liquid this early in the morning?

00:42:19Guest:It's too full.

00:42:21Guest:Like everything was like, cause I think I was, I was like, I had like Stockholm syndrome or something.

00:42:26Marc:Pretty quick.

00:42:27Marc:It sounds like.

00:42:27Guest:Yeah.

00:42:28Guest:Like immediately.

00:42:29Guest:And then, and then we didn't have any money.

00:42:31Guest:So I would like, he's like, well, you know, then I'll, cause I was like, I thought you were a book reviewer.

00:42:35Guest:And then I'd see him reading the want ads.

00:42:37Guest:And I'd be like, he'd be like, well, we need some money, Wiener.

00:42:40Guest:He called me Wiener.

00:42:41Guest:He's like, we need some money.

00:42:42Guest:He's like, you need to go out and get a job.

00:42:43Guest:So I got this waitressing job.

00:42:44Guest:And he would sit there and stare at me while I would wait tables.

00:42:48Guest:And then they fired me.

00:42:49Guest:And then I got a job at a brothel answering phones for a day.

00:42:54Guest:And then he got really mad.

00:42:56Marc:Because you were working at a brothel.

00:42:57Yes.

00:42:58Guest:And like when we take the money, like it would be like, you know, $30 or whatever, $60.

00:43:03Guest:And then we'd spend it all on like champagne and like picnic food.

00:43:08Guest:And then we go for like, he's like, we have to walk this way because the roses will be, will be blowing.

00:43:12Guest:The Eastern winds are right now.

00:43:14Guest:So that if we walked up this street, even though it's longer, we'll get the, you know, the smell of the roses.

00:43:18Marc:So you were still buying his bullshit?

00:43:20Yeah.

00:43:20Marc:You're like 22.

00:43:22Marc:You're in a different country.

00:43:25Guest:Yeah.

00:43:26Marc:And you're way far from Rockford.

00:43:27Guest:Oh, I mean, and from anything.

00:43:29Guest:Oh, and then, you know, the internet wasn't that big then.

00:43:31Guest:So it's like I couldn't, I didn't have like my own computer or anything.

00:43:35Marc:But you never felt scared.

00:43:36Guest:Oh, I was scared.

00:43:37Guest:At one point, he would always leave.

00:43:39Guest:And then at one point, and I'd be in his house, so I started digging through his shit.

00:43:42Guest:Because I was like, what's happening here?

00:43:43Guest:I know something's wrong.

00:43:45Guest:I remember getting on my hands and knees.

00:43:46Guest:I was like, God, please give me a sign.

00:43:48Guest:And then the phone rings.

00:43:50Guest:And he's like, Wiener, I need you to take, because I was supposed to go to university.

00:43:53Guest:He's like, I need you to take your university money and put it in the mailbox.

00:43:56Guest:And I'm like, why?

00:43:58Guest:That's my money.

00:43:58Guest:That's $1,200.

00:44:00Guest:He's like, just do as I say.

00:44:01Guest:So I get down there, and there's this girl bawling.

00:44:05Guest:And she's like, give me that money.

00:44:07Guest:And I'm like, what?

00:44:08Guest:I thought it was for Alex.

00:44:09Guest:And she's like, no, he needs to pay for my abortion.

00:44:14Guest:Like, he was like, fucking other girls there.

00:44:16Guest:I mean, he was like, he was a psychopath.

00:44:19Marc:Sociopath.

00:44:20Guest:Sociopath.

00:44:21Guest:I think he had like, yeah, some kind of he was like antisocial personality disorder.

00:44:25Marc:Maybe it's so hard for me to hear this story because like, you know, I've only I've heard one or two stories like it where, you know, for some reason you're paralyzed to take care of yourself, to get out, even though like there's no way.

00:44:41Marc:that this can end well or it's good and you're being treated badly.

00:44:47Marc:But what were you thinking?

00:44:48Marc:Why do you stay and what finally happened to get you out of there?

00:44:53Guest:Well, I don't think I was fully formed yet.

00:44:55Marc:Right, 22.

00:44:56Guest:Right, so I was like, I mean, he used to work with the aboriginals and so he would like- He really did?

00:45:01Guest:He said he did.

00:45:01Guest:So he was like, I used to cut their hair.

00:45:03Guest:So he'd give me haircuts and I would change my hair color.

00:45:06Guest:I just didn't know.

00:45:07Guest:And I remember the reason why I came

00:45:11Guest:We were, before when we were in New York, he would, you know, he was really good at this.

00:45:15Guest:This is how they lie.

00:45:16Guest:Because I remember.

00:45:17Marc:Who's the sociopath?

00:45:18Guest:Yeah.

00:45:19Guest:Yeah.

00:45:19Guest:Like we were on a date at someone's house and they were playing Neil Young.

00:45:23Guest:And I was like, oh, I love Neil Young.

00:45:24Guest:And I was like, and I was like, oh, my favorite Neil Young album is Hawks and Doves.

00:45:30Guest:And he's like, oh.

00:45:31Guest:you know hawks and doves and I was like yeah and I was then you know in my head in New York I was like I have to move there this man knows my favorite album and then I remember once when I got back to when I was in Australia I was looking through his music and I was like what about you have hawks and doves I feel like reading that he's like or listening to that he's like what's that

00:45:48Guest:And I'm like, you know that out.

00:45:50Guest:And so it's like he would lie in the moment and like now you wouldn't fall for it.

00:45:55Marc:Because he's just trying to con you right there.

00:45:57Guest:Right, so there's like a million things.

00:45:59Marc:He's doing everything he can to make you feel like you know him.

00:46:02Guest:Yeah, but he was such a unique person and very funny.

00:46:06Guest:Like he was, you know, we'd be on the bus and he would be like,

00:46:09Guest:you know, just excuse me, driver.

00:46:12Guest:Like he would act like we were in a limo, like on the bus.

00:46:14Guest:Like he just had this, and everyone hated him in Australia.

00:46:17Guest:People were like, who is this guy?

00:46:18Guest:Like people were worried about me.

00:46:19Guest:You could just see like strangers were like, are you okay?

00:46:22Guest:But he'd be like, excuse me, is this, is this bus going to, you know, blah, blah, blah driver.

00:46:28Guest:And then the bus driver, I remember this bus driver was like, read the sign.

00:46:32Guest:Yeah.

00:46:32Guest:And Alex would, he'd flip his scarf and he'd be like, are you assuming, sir, that I can read?

00:46:37Guest:Like he would say these crazy things to people.

00:46:40Marc:So you're in Australia with a lunatic.

00:46:42Guest:A lunatic.

00:46:44Guest:And we would go on picnics all the time.

00:46:46Marc:But how abusive did he get?

00:46:48Guest:It wasn't physically abusive.

00:46:50Marc:He just yelled and he was just, but you must have loved him somehow.

00:46:54Guest:Yeah, because then I asked my mom.

00:46:56Guest:I told my mom I needed $2,000 for a plane ticket back.

00:47:00Guest:And then it was only like $800, and then I paid for him to go back with me.

00:47:05Guest:And then we moved back to New York.

00:47:06Marc:Did you ever address this insane codependent behavior in any way?

00:47:11Marc:Is that codependent?

00:47:14Marc:What giving a guy's girl crying girlfriend when you're living with?

00:47:19Guest:Oh, you're right.

00:47:20Guest:You're right.

00:47:20Marc:You know, he talked me getting it twelve hundred more dollars.

00:47:24Guest:Oh, that's what he would say.

00:47:25Guest:He would say he would do this technique or he would be like I'd be like not that it was the wrong thing to help the girl out.

00:47:29Guest:But it was not your responsibility to give her my university money.

00:47:32Marc:It's crazy.

00:47:33Guest:I know.

00:47:33Guest:And I would say, did you did you have sex with her?

00:47:36Guest:And he would just say, I was with no one.

00:47:38Guest:And I'd be like, no, but were you, did you do it?

00:47:40Guest:And he would just keep repeating, I was with no one.

00:47:43Guest:And I think that's like a tactic that people, like con artists use.

00:47:47Guest:I forget it's called something, but it's like, you just keep repeating something until the person.

00:47:52Guest:It's called lying.

00:47:56Guest:But it really changed me.

00:47:57Guest:And so I feel like, I mean, I think it just like, just meeting someone who went through the world like that.

00:48:03Guest:I'd never, I think I just sort of,

00:48:06Marc:But wait, so how does this story end, man?

00:48:08Guest:I mean, it's got so many parts to it.

00:48:11Guest:Oh, and then one time we were at the store, and I saw him stealing potatoes.

00:48:15Guest:He would steal things, and I'd be like, Alex, you can't steal.

00:48:19Guest:He would just steal shit.

00:48:21Marc:So this was sort of exciting.

00:48:23Guest:Yeah, kind.

00:48:24Guest:I mean, yes.

00:48:25Guest:Yeah, and we had good sex, but we would fight all the time.

00:48:29Guest:But I thought he was so smart.

00:48:30Guest:He was the smartest person.

00:48:31Marc:You thought?

00:48:33Guest:I mean, he was very smart.

00:48:34Marc:But did you start doing cons?

00:48:36Guest:Not with him.

00:48:37Guest:No, it was more me because I'm like, you know, I was raised really well.

00:48:40Guest:Like I would be like, we got we have to pay for this.

00:48:43Guest:Like we can't like he tried to like dine and dash.

00:48:47Marc:So you're not acting at all.

00:48:48Marc:You're just acting in response to this.

00:48:50Guest:No, I'm cleaning house.

00:48:52Guest:And I'm like going through his shit.

00:48:55Guest:Like he always told me his dad was a doctor.

00:48:57Guest:And his mother was from French royalty.

00:49:00Guest:He's like, my mother would have loved you.

00:49:01Guest:Your ankles are so small.

00:49:03Guest:You know, that's a sign of breeding.

00:49:04Guest:Like he was always telling me all these things.

00:49:07Guest:But then when I went through his stuff one day, I found his birth certificate.

00:49:12Guest:And it said his dad was like a electroplater, which is like a very low factory job.

00:49:19Uh-huh.

00:49:19Guest:Am I making you uncomfortable?

00:49:21Guest:No, no.

00:49:21Guest:Have you done this to women?

00:49:22Marc:Never.

00:49:23Marc:I mean, I think we all have our bullshit, but this is a full... It's fascinating to me that, like I said, I've heard this a couple of times before, maybe not on this show, but I know another woman who went through something similar, but it is sort of like Stockholm Syndrome.

00:49:38Marc:But there must have been enough...

00:49:40Marc:Good, right?

00:49:42Marc:Not good, but being emotionally engaged and having good sex and fighting and actually being kind of in awe of somebody, even if they're out of their mind, is something.

00:49:52Guest:Hey, it's better than being bored.

00:49:54Marc:That's right.

00:49:55Marc:But how did it end?

00:49:56Marc:You both came back to the States on your mom's dime.

00:50:00Guest:What?

00:50:00Guest:Well, not only that, we went we took like a crazy vacation.

00:50:04Guest:He was like, I'm not traveling all the way back to America without going to the Lakes District in England.

00:50:08Guest:Or like he was like, we went to Thailand and I'm with my mom's money.

00:50:12Guest:I ended up paying her back.

00:50:13Guest:We went to and he was just he had such a feeling that he should have everything.

00:50:18Guest:And he was so charming.

00:50:20Guest:He would just ask to be upgraded to first class and people would upgrade us.

00:50:24Guest:I don't know how he did it, but he took my mom's money and we went to Kosa Movie.

00:50:29Marc:You're impressed with this guy.

00:50:31Guest:Well, I've looked him up.

00:50:32Guest:I can't find him anymore.

00:50:34Marc:Really?

00:50:34Marc:Just out of curiosity, right?

00:50:37Guest:Yeah.

00:50:38Marc:You don't even know if it was his real name.

00:50:40Guest:Right, right.

00:50:40Marc:But you look at his birth certificate, so you must have been able to confirm that.

00:50:44Marc:You couldn't find him anymore, huh?

00:50:46Guest:No.

00:50:47Guest:His name was Alex, should I say his name?

00:50:50Guest:His name was Alex Priodite and he would always say it was, Priodite means spoken prayer.

00:50:57Guest:Everything he said was like that.

00:50:58Marc:You love this guy.

00:51:00Marc:You love this bullshit artist.

00:51:01Guest:Well, he was just so funny.

00:51:03Guest:I don't know.

00:51:03Guest:I never heard of someone saying that you had to take a certain route so you could smell the roses.

00:51:09Marc:No, it's sweet in a way.

00:51:11Marc:You were able to forgive all this insanity.

00:51:13Marc:I'm glad that he just kind of took you for a ride for a little bit of money in retrospect.

00:51:20Guest:Not much money.

00:51:20Marc:And didn't hurt you too badly.

00:51:22Guest:And he always told me he had never been in love.

00:51:24Marc:And so anyway... You're such a romantic.

00:51:27Marc:You really bought it.

00:51:28Marc:You knew that he was bullshitting, but what he represented... How could you not?

00:51:32Guest:That's what I... Yeah.

00:51:33Marc:But he represented... You had something in common.

00:51:36Marc:You both wanted to be that.

00:51:38Guest:Right.

00:51:39Guest:I didn't know I wanted to be that until I met him and I was like, oh, you know.

00:51:44Marc:But no, but I mean, like you bought, like his lie was sort of enchanting to you.

00:51:48Marc:You're like, this is it.

00:51:49Marc:And then even when you got there and you realized it was a lie, but he still sort of committed to behaving like that.

00:51:56Marc:And you're like, that's pretty good, right?

00:51:59Guest:Yeah.

00:51:59Guest:But the problem was when you're lying at that level every day you're telling someone lies, you get mad for no reason.

00:52:08Marc:Right.

00:52:08Marc:Because you don't know where you are in a way.

00:52:12Guest:Yes.

00:52:13Guest:I remember I was wearing these shoes once when we were in London on our way back and he was like...

00:52:17Guest:why are you wearing those in the daytime?

00:52:19Guest:And he got so mad and like, you know, wouldn't talk to me.

00:52:22Guest:And he was just like, he was so crazy.

00:52:25Guest:But like we would just, and then for me, I was always like begging him to like not be mad.

00:52:29Guest:Oh my God.

00:52:30Guest:It was really sad.

00:52:31Guest:But anyway, so we get back to New York.

00:52:33Guest:It lasted.

00:52:33Guest:We had no place to stay, no money.

00:52:35Guest:I lost my waitressing job, you know, everything.

00:52:37Guest:So then we stayed with this girl, Denisha, this like Dominican girl and her family and her grandmother in Queens.

00:52:44Marc:How did that, how, how?

00:52:45Guest:I mean, we would just spend the night in this.

00:52:47Guest:We just lived there.

00:52:48Marc:But how did you find them?

00:52:49Guest:Oh, because I used to waitress with her before I left.

00:52:52Guest:So we were living in deep Queens.

00:52:55Guest:And then he just left me for this girl in Brooklyn who had an inheritance.

00:52:59Guest:And I found out he said to her he had never been in love.

00:53:04Guest:And that was the love that he found.

00:53:06Guest:I mean, because he probably knew he had limited time left with me.

00:53:09Marc:Yeah.

00:53:10Marc:He shouldn't have had the time he had.

00:53:12Marc:I know.

00:53:14Guest:I know.

00:53:14Guest:Can you imagine?

00:53:15Marc:Must have been a pretty long run for that guy.

00:53:17Guest:Oh, and then and like he was dressed so cool the first night I saw him.

00:53:22Guest:And then ever since then, he would wear like he dressed terribly.

00:53:25Guest:He would wear those like Bill Cosby sweaters and like fanny packs.

00:53:28Guest:And I still like was into him.

00:53:30Marc:Like you wanted to believe something.

00:53:33Guest:I guess.

00:53:34Guest:I don't know.

00:53:34Guest:But then I think, you know, it took me like two or three years to recover in New York.

00:53:38Guest:And then I just sort of like, he just always kind of was an influence in my head, I think.

00:53:43Marc:Still is.

00:53:43Marc:You get pretty worked up talking about him.

00:53:45Marc:It seemed like a pretty exciting time in some way.

00:53:47Guest:Well, it's so I haven't thought about it in a while.

00:53:49Guest:And then I was thinking about it the other day and it was I kind of forgot a lot of it.

00:53:52Marc:It feels like somehow or another, like not in a like, like I like that you don't perceive yourself as a victim necessarily.

00:53:58Marc:And you still find all the good things in the humor and the whole thing.

00:54:02Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:54:02Guest:I'm so glad it happened to me.

00:54:04Guest:Because what if it happened to me at 35?

00:54:07Guest:Like then your life's over.

00:54:08Marc:Right.

00:54:09Marc:But right.

00:54:11Guest:Like just to get that out of your system to like move to another continent for love.

00:54:14Marc:Yeah.

00:54:15Marc:You might as well do that when you're 20 to have such an extreme experience with such a lunatic and not and not have it get so abusive or destructive that, you know, you don't really recover from it because it sounds like you maintained some sort of romantic idea through all of it.

00:54:31Marc:And was the recovery, when you say it took you two or three years to recover, was that because you felt like you'd been fucked over or just brokenhearted?

00:54:38Marc:Were you sitting there going like, what was I doing?

00:54:41Marc:Or were you like, I'm sad that he went with somebody else?

00:54:44Guest:I think both.

00:54:45Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:54:46Guest:I think I somehow was in love with him.

00:54:48Guest:I don't know what fantasy he fulfilled.

00:54:52Guest:I mean, I...

00:54:52Marc:Well, like you said, lunatics are exciting.

00:54:55Marc:Alcoholics are exciting.

00:54:56Marc:Drug addicts are exciting.

00:54:58Marc:I mean, I don't know what, you know, outside of what you grew up with, but like people, like my dad's a bit of a nut.

00:55:04Marc:Like if you grow up with that, with that sort of chaos in your life, it's very engaging.

00:55:08Guest:I've heard you talk about your dad like it's like a rollercoaster.

00:55:10Marc:Yeah, and it's engaging in a way that you don't have to deal with your own shit.

00:55:14Marc:Like, you know, when you're with somebody that's high maintenance and entertaining, you don't ever have to think about yourself almost at all.

00:55:22Guest:Yeah, I think I'm very attracted to that.

00:55:25Guest:And I'm lucky that I'm not like that.

00:55:26Guest:That's not who you want to settle with, though.

00:55:28Marc:No, but also somehow or another, you have enough fortitude because you're a very defined character and you have a personality you don't like.

00:55:36Marc:I look at you and I'm not sitting here going like, who is this poor girl?

00:55:42Marc:But like, you know, you obviously were like my mother's a little like that, where it's almost easier for you to maintain your integrity when you just have to fucking manage a lunatic.

00:55:52Marc:Right.

00:55:52Marc:You know what I mean?

00:55:53Marc:Because all you have to do with them is go stop.

00:55:55Marc:OK, can we not do this right now?

00:55:57Marc:Oh, here we go.

00:55:58Marc:And, you know, there's no conversation about you.

00:56:01Marc:So you actually are protected in some fucked up way.

00:56:04Guest:But when you're dealing with it, you're not blindsided by it.

00:56:11Marc:Right.

00:56:12Marc:It becomes easy because they're so selfish.

00:56:15Guest:Right.

00:56:15Guest:They're so selfish.

00:56:17Marc:Right.

00:56:18Guest:That's what it is, I guess.

00:56:20Marc:Yeah.

00:56:20Marc:It's like you're just some sort of thing they work through.

00:56:25Marc:They use you.

00:56:27Marc:It's a using.

00:56:28Marc:But if it's not horrendously abusive, it can be easier.

00:56:33Marc:You know, than dealing with your own shit, I guess.

00:56:35Marc:But you're also very young.

00:56:37Guest:Do I really seem like I'm excited by it?

00:56:39Guest:I was just getting worked up thinking about it, I guess.

00:56:42Guest:I'm definitely not like reminiscing.

00:56:46Marc:No, you were definitely reminiscing.

00:56:47Guest:Well, I guess.

00:56:48Guest:I mean, it's just so it seems.

00:56:50Guest:It's a great story.

00:56:51Guest:It doesn't seem like my life.

00:56:52Marc:But you survived it and it's an amazing experience and you probably learned a lot.

00:56:56Marc:And I think that, like, it seems to me that just in sort of defining who you were and certainly the character that you've become on stage and, you know, what interests you, this kind of like... Class.

00:57:07Marc:Yes.

00:57:09Guest:Like, he would never say we were out of money.

00:57:10Guest:He'd say, we need to raise money.

00:57:12Yeah.

00:57:14Marc:Real piece of work, this guy.

00:57:16Guest:We need to raise money.

00:57:17Guest:And raising money would be selling the furniture.

00:57:21Guest:So we had to raise money to pay for eating.

00:57:26Marc:I think it's really charming because I think this guy might have been really one of the biggest influences in your life.

00:57:33Guest:And my mom, he even met my mom and he kind of hoodwinked my mother too.

00:57:37Guest:He just had, some people just have something.

00:57:41Marc:sure it sounds like you guys like the real charmers i guess yeah so okay so when do you start you know working on your shit oh so then i moved so i stayed in i stayed in new york great story and i'm glad it didn't end horribly other than just sort of sadly yeah yeah but you just you just tried to find him huh

00:58:03Guest:No.

00:58:03Guest:I mean, I've Googled him before just to see.

00:58:06Guest:I'm sure he's in Hong Kong with some woman doing... I don't know.

00:58:11Marc:You think he's still got his tricks together?

00:58:13Marc:I mean, like you said, he's got to be almost 70.

00:58:15Guest:Actually, he was a chain smoker, though.

00:58:17Guest:He would roll his own cigarettes and drink wine every... I mean, he wasn't an alcoholic, but I bet he's dead.

00:58:21Marc:So you'll probably find out.

00:58:25Guest:Although one time this guy called me for this interview, and I talked to him for like 40 minutes, and I was like, I think this is him.

00:58:32Guest:Really?

00:58:32Guest:Because he sounded just like him, and then he started veering off, asking me really weird questions, but I don't know.

00:58:39Guest:Anyway, so then I lived in New York for a couple more years, and then I think 9-11 happened, and I was living in Harlem in a windowless apartment.

00:58:48Marc:And you weren't doing comedy?

00:58:50Guest:No, I was like trying to get a commercial agent.

00:58:53Guest:I was like five years into trying to get a commercial agent.

00:58:55Marc:Just working?

00:58:56Guest:Just waitressing and like no clue how anything works.

00:59:00Guest:That's why when I look at people who have careers by the time they're 30, I'm like they must have a lot of people like I think just knew more, had more information.

00:59:07Guest:I had no information.

00:59:09Marc:Well, I think like a lot of us, like comedians for whatever reason, and maybe it's a bad generalization.

00:59:13Marc:Maybe I should just say me.

00:59:14Marc:It's like you enter the world with this idea of what you want to do, but you have no practical experience of how to live life.

00:59:21Guest:Yeah.

00:59:21Marc:Like, you know, like for a long time, I just had no idea.

00:59:24Marc:It's like, you know, I'd get a rent of an apartment and get a futon and they have boxes.

00:59:29Marc:Like I didn't like I just assume something would eventually like somebody would tell me what to do.

00:59:35Guest:Like you'd be in a city where things were happening.

00:59:37Marc:Yeah, but I didn't know.

00:59:38Marc:And I just sort of like, you know, when I started doing comedy, I'm like, that's what I do.

00:59:41Marc:Those guys, I can hang out with these people.

00:59:44Marc:And I wanted to do comedy.

00:59:46Marc:Once I figured out that was my goal, which I always wanted to do, that's all I thought about.

00:59:52Marc:But I didn't live a normal life.

00:59:53Marc:I never lived a normal life.

00:59:55Guest:Yeah.

00:59:55Marc:And there is no, people who have planned careers, I find disconcerting.

00:59:59Marc:It annoys me, but it makes sense.

01:00:01Marc:Most people are like that.

01:00:03Marc:They have sort of a plan and goals.

01:00:05Guest:I know many 20-year-olds who want to be a showrunner.

01:00:09Guest:I'm like, how do you even know what that is?

01:00:10Marc:I just learned what that was a couple years ago.

01:00:14Guest:It's just a different... But yeah, I had no idea how things worked.

01:00:17Marc:You wanted to be a movie star.

01:00:19Guest:Yeah, but I also was like, I'll be on a soap opera.

01:00:21Guest:I just wanted to be an actress.

01:00:23Guest:I remember this woman from a soap opera came into the whiskey bar and I got down on my knees and I was like, can you please get my headshot to your director?

01:00:30Guest:I just didn't understand.

01:00:31Guest:I was so desperate.

01:00:33Marc:Yeah.

01:00:33Guest:But then I moved to L.A.

01:00:35Guest:and then I saw this.

01:00:35Marc:And I just moved.

01:00:37Marc:You just like fuck New York.

01:00:39Guest:Yeah.

01:00:39Guest:Because I was living in Harlem in this windowless room.

01:00:42Guest:And I was like, I'm going to give it, you know, six more months if I can't get an agent.

01:00:45Guest:Because I knew it was crazy that I couldn't get an agent.

01:00:47Guest:Like, it just felt like I just didn't understand.

01:00:49Guest:Like, I knew I was talented.

01:00:50Marc:And what were you doing?

01:00:51Marc:Just sending pictures out, banging on doors, giving your picture to people?

01:00:54Guest:Yeah, it was just sad.

01:00:56Guest:And then I was like, I'm going to move to L.A.

01:00:59Marc:With nothing, with no connection here.

01:01:00Guest:I think I had $700 left in an overdraft checking account that was $5,000.

01:01:05Guest:Chase Manhattan gave me $5,000 credit.

01:01:09Guest:Right.

01:01:09Guest:So it was like I had negative money.

01:01:11Guest:Yeah.

01:01:11Guest:And then I moved to L.A.

01:01:13Guest:And then 9-11 happened.

01:01:15Guest:So I had my apartment in New York in Harlem.

01:01:17Guest:And I was like, oh, I should just not go back there.

01:01:20Guest:So then I just stayed in L.A.

01:01:22Guest:And then for two years, I just kind of like did nothing.

01:01:25Guest:You know, worked in Waitress and stuff.

01:01:27Guest:Nothing.

01:01:28Guest:I didn't know anything about comedy.

01:01:30Guest:I knew no stand-ups.

01:01:31Guest:And then I saw this girl I knew from Acting Conservatory.

01:01:35Guest:She's like, oh, I have a show at the Comedy Store.

01:01:37Guest:And I always thought she was cool.

01:01:38Marc:And I just saw her up on... You knew her from New York?

01:01:40Guest:Yeah.

01:01:41Guest:And she just stood up on stage.

01:01:43Guest:I went to her show at the comedy store.

01:01:44Guest:I'd never been there before.

01:01:45Guest:In the belly room.

01:01:46Guest:In the belly room, yes, of course.

01:01:48Guest:The first place I performed to.

01:01:49Guest:Yeah.

01:01:50Guest:And she was just talking about her life.

01:01:53Guest:I thought stand-up was like Jerry Seinfeld with a tie.

01:01:56Guest:I was just always more into music.

01:01:58Guest:I was never into comedy.

01:02:00Guest:Right.

01:02:00Guest:And so I was like, oh, I could just stand on stage and talk about...

01:02:04Guest:what I like about LA, what I don't like about LA, how I feel, and I just tried it.

01:02:10Guest:And I just, I killed.

01:02:15Guest:Like the first time I did it, I killed so, I've still never killed that.

01:02:20Guest:I mean, I could not believe people were laughing.

01:02:22Guest:And I remember my hairdresser had given me half a Xanax because I was so nervous.

01:02:28Guest:So maybe that was part of it.

01:02:29Guest:But it just felt like the laughter was like a wave.

01:02:33Guest:I felt like it was coming over me.

01:02:35Guest:And there was no low point in the whole set.

01:02:39Guest:It was crazy.

01:02:41Guest:And then I started bombing.

01:02:43Guest:But yeah.

01:02:44Marc:But that was enough to get you in.

01:02:46Guest:Yeah.

01:02:47Marc:So then you just started, like, you kind of started to ingrain yourself in the community of mics and stuff?

01:02:52Guest:Yeah, now they're called mics.

01:02:54Marc:Yeah, I can't even believe I used that word, Pat.

01:02:57Marc:Like, it's a word I use.

01:02:59Guest:mics yeah open mics yeah i would go out and then you know i started dating that guy ari and he had such an amazing work ethic that i was very influenced by him like he was just like every night you gotta go up you know eight times a week so i would keep this calendar and like you know he has this thing on his wall that says you're nothing until you bomb a hundred times and then he would like cross off each like he still would like cross he still has it like he'd cross off you know how many times he would bomb and

01:03:27Guest:So I was just, I had this idea that you had to work so hard.

01:03:31Marc:That's a good thing to have.

01:03:32Guest:Yeah.

01:03:32Marc:Like, yeah, he learned it from a towel and people like that.

01:03:34Guest:Yeah.

01:03:35Marc:Like, you know, that the New York style.

01:03:37Guest:Yeah.

01:03:37Marc:You got to get out there every night somewhere.

01:03:39Guest:Yeah.

01:03:39Guest:And he's very like militant like that.

01:03:41Guest:So I think that that was helpful just to like meet people like that.

01:03:45Guest:Yeah.

01:03:46Marc:You really have to run dick jokes as many as possible over and over again to really make sure they work well.

01:03:52Guest:Yeah, those guys would be like, what?

01:03:53Guest:That's like nothing.

01:03:54Guest:A hundred times, joke's nothing until you've told it like 200 times.

01:03:57Guest:It's like, what?

01:03:58Marc:So this is interesting.

01:03:59Marc:The theme is that whatever it is, you certainly seem to learn things from people.

01:04:05Marc:Like that ethic, the work ethic of comedy.

01:04:09Marc:I don't know what happened with that relationship or how fucked up that got.

01:04:12Marc:Did you guys get married too?

01:04:13Guest:Did we get married too?

01:04:17Guest:No, we didn't get married.

01:04:19Marc:I think you crushed him, right?

01:04:20Marc:Wasn't that the story?

01:04:22Guest:It did not end well.

01:04:23Marc:Are you okay now?

01:04:25Guest:I wasn't allowed to go to the comedy store for three years.

01:04:30Guest:By who?

01:04:31Marc:By him?

01:04:32Guest:Oh, I went there once, and I was sitting there talking to Morgan Murphy, and they were sitting in the corner, and she got up to go to the bathroom, and then he came over and threw a drink on my head and was like, get out of here.

01:04:46Guest:This isn't your turf or whatever he said.

01:04:48Guest:I don't know.

01:04:49Guest:He's apologized since, and it's a funny thing.

01:04:51Marc:I kind of remember this.

01:04:53Marc:And no one helped me.

01:04:55Guest:That was annoying.

01:04:56Guest:The comedy store was a little more lawless.

01:04:59Marc:Right.

01:04:59Marc:And they were all part of that system.

01:05:01Marc:He lived there, basically.

01:05:04Marc:And there was a crew of doormen and up-and-comers that were...

01:05:08Marc:you know, using the comedy store as Mitzi designed it as this clusterfuck of a hate palace for aggravated men to be territorial.

01:05:16Marc:Totally.

01:05:18Marc:Yeah.

01:05:19Marc:And then so he was honoring the, you know, he was insulated there and he had his pack.

01:05:23Marc:Yeah.

01:05:23Guest:Kind of, yeah.

01:05:24Guest:But we're cool now, totally.

01:05:26Marc:No, it's a long time ago, but he threw a drink at you.

01:05:28Marc:Yeah.

01:05:29Guest:That's never happened to me before.

01:05:31Guest:And I remember Morgan said that she came out of the bathroom and was like, why does Natasha's ponytail have no volume?

01:05:37Guest:Because I was just like drenched.

01:05:39Marc:That's pretty abusive and pretty horrible.

01:05:41Guest:Right, but it was, I mean, he would have never physically.

01:05:44Guest:But then I was like, oh, I don't know.

01:05:45Guest:Someone could throw acid in my face.

01:05:48Guest:I don't know.

01:05:49Guest:I mean, I was just, but anyway, I stayed away from there.

01:05:52Marc:And you just did other open mics?

01:05:54Guest:Yeah, there's so much.

01:05:55Guest:And I started going on the road and started headlining.

01:05:59Marc:But wait, that seems like a big jump.

01:06:00Marc:So when did the TV stuff start happening?

01:06:02Marc:I mean, when did you, like, you know, like you were acting.

01:06:05Marc:When did you get an agent and stuff?

01:06:08Guest:Oh, I mean, it all kind of started just happening.

01:06:11Guest:It was so cool to experience that after, like, so much heartache and, like, you know, just...

01:06:19Guest:going nowhere in New York.

01:06:21Guest:New York is just like, it feels like a scam.

01:06:25Guest:It was just so hard.

01:06:26Guest:There was no group of people.

01:06:28Guest:There was no luck.

01:06:31Guest:Nothing ever really good happened.

01:06:34Marc:Right, there was, but you weren't in it.

01:06:36Guest:Oh, right.

01:06:36Guest:Yeah.

01:06:37Guest:For me.

01:06:37Guest:Like I never kind of got in that.

01:06:39Marc:Right.

01:06:39Marc:Well, you didn't know what your interests were.

01:06:41Marc:You had no idea how we, you know, no acting crew.

01:06:43Guest:Exactly.

01:06:44Marc:But now I imagine if you go to New York, there's comics around that know you and you can kind of walk in.

01:06:48Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:06:49Marc:What's up, you guys?

01:06:49Guest:Totally.

01:06:50Marc:Because you're like a comedian.

01:06:52Marc:You're a real deal now.

01:06:53Yeah.

01:06:53Guest:Yeah, so it was nice to have people taking interest and getting an agent and getting auditions.

01:07:01Marc:But it seems like from 2002.

01:07:02Guest:Are you looking at my Wikipedia?

01:07:04Marc:Yeah, I'm looking at the resume.

01:07:06Marc:But from 2002, when you started doing comedy, shit started happening within a few years.

01:07:11Marc:I mean, you did Premium Blend, and then you did a roast?

01:07:15Yeah.

01:07:15Guest:I think I got to like quit my, I think it took me four years before I had to quit waitressing.

01:07:19Marc:Right.

01:07:20Guest:So I was like waitressing full time.

01:07:22Guest:And then four years I got to like, I think I did like the late, late show.

01:07:26Guest:And then I got to host a reality show.

01:07:29Guest:And then I didn't have to work anymore.

01:07:30Marc:It was still sort of like mostly acting gigs.

01:07:34Guest:Some of it.

01:07:35Marc:But like, you know, in terms of like getting a headliner, like becoming a headliner, actually having the time to do that, you did seem to do that in the appropriate time, like eight years or so.

01:07:45Guest:Yeah, but I or maybe less.

01:07:47Guest:Like I remember maybe six years because I just started.

01:07:50Guest:I was constantly on the road, which middling and then headlining in certain place.

01:07:56Guest:You know, like I remember, you know, the Denver Comedy Works.

01:07:59Guest:Like it's so fun there.

01:08:00Guest:Like that's the first place I was.

01:08:01Guest:I was so scared.

01:08:02Guest:And then I was able to do it there.

01:08:04Marc:Yeah.

01:08:04Guest:And then I was like, OK, I can do it now.

01:08:06Marc:Yeah.

01:08:06Marc:What's a great room.

01:08:07Marc:It's very forgiving room.

01:08:08Marc:It's like almost too good.

01:08:10Guest:I know.

01:08:11Guest:So I'm so glad I got to do that.

01:08:13Marc:Yeah.

01:08:13Marc:But you did Last Comic Standing, too?

01:08:16Guest:I was the host.

01:08:17Guest:You hosted.

01:08:17Guest:No, no, no.

01:08:18Guest:I was a judge.

01:08:19Marc:Oh, you judged.

01:08:19Guest:Yeah.

01:08:20Marc:Because you're a character.

01:08:21Guest:I mean, it was me and Andy and Greg Geraldo.

01:08:24Marc:Oh, that's wrong.

01:08:25Guest:Poor Greg.

01:08:26Guest:Poor Greg.

01:08:26Guest:He was so sweet.

01:08:27Guest:He was so smart.

01:08:29Marc:So smart.

01:08:29Guest:I loved him.

01:08:30Guest:I only got to know him on that show, but...

01:08:33Marc:Yeah, so sad.

01:08:34Guest:Were you friends with him?

01:08:35Marc:Yeah.

01:08:37Marc:Yeah, I knew him a long time.

01:08:38Marc:I didn't know he was as bad off as he was.

01:08:42Marc:I wasn't in New York when it all went downhill, so I had no real sense of.

01:08:48Guest:I remember him saying he was living in a studio, and then he was on the road Tuesday through Sunday, and would get his kids one day a week.

01:08:59Marc:Yeah, no, just the spiral of drugs.

01:09:01Marc:I knew he was trying to clean up.

01:09:03Marc:As he got closer to his tragic demise, I knew he was in real trouble.

01:09:09Guest:Comedy is such a dangerous job.

01:09:11Guest:It's the only job where I'm asked maybe three times if I want to drink before I go on stage every time I'm on the road.

01:09:18Guest:It's like everyone's so... You're expected to drink and people bring you drugs and people bring you pills.

01:09:28Marc:People know that I'm...

01:09:29Guest:For you, yeah, they don't.

01:09:30Marc:Yeah, they bring me cake and cat toys.

01:09:34Guest:Aw, that's cute, though.

01:09:37Marc:I get a lot of weed.

01:09:37Marc:I get a lot of catnip toys.

01:09:39Guest:But you're so successful.

01:09:40Guest:It's so good that you're similar.

01:09:42Marc:No, it took a long time.

01:09:44Marc:But let's not underestimate the power of Chelsea lately.

01:09:48Guest:Oh, that was very helpful.

01:09:50Marc:I mean, that was really, if I'm like looking at this and doing the math on it.

01:09:53Guest:Is my star meter going up at Chelsea?

01:09:55Marc:No, no.

01:09:56Marc:I'm just saying it's a pivotal thing.

01:09:57Marc:It was a tremendous showcase.

01:09:59Guest:Have you had her on?

01:10:00Marc:Yeah.

01:10:00Marc:I went to her house years ago.

01:10:02Marc:It was good.

01:10:03Guest:She's very funny.

01:10:04Guest:She's naturally funny.

01:10:05Marc:I know.

01:10:05Marc:I think she's great.

01:10:06Guest:And very smart.

01:10:07Guest:She's constantly reading.

01:10:08Marc:Yeah.

01:10:08Marc:No, I think she's great.

01:10:09Marc:I think she did an amazing thing.

01:10:11Marc:And she really was loyal to a group of writers and comics.

01:10:14Guest:Yeah.

01:10:15Marc:And really made a lot of careers for people and is very good to people.

01:10:18Guest:You're right.

01:10:18Guest:I was able to start headlining when I started.

01:10:21Marc:Right, because you could draw, because it was a very popular show.

01:10:25Guest:Yeah.

01:10:25Marc:And they knew you.

01:10:26Marc:They knew your personality.

01:10:27Marc:They knew what to expect.

01:10:28Marc:They knew you were that woman who did that thing.

01:10:31Guest:Well, also, Chelsea was kind of dark.

01:10:33Guest:She would make fun of the celebrities that other people on E!

01:10:36Guest:would be like.

01:10:37Guest:Mario Lopez is saying how cool everyone is, and Chelsea's rolling her eyes.

01:10:41Guest:And so the people who are attracted to that, you could kind of be dark and like say mean things and people wouldn't get offended.

01:10:48Guest:So I think Chelsea helped set the tone a little bit for people to not be so PC and so like scared of everything.

01:10:57Marc:Yeah.

01:10:58Marc:And then and she loved you, right?

01:11:00Guest:Yeah, she totally helped me, and I was on the show all the time.

01:11:04Guest:The problem, it's like you work so hard to get something real happening, and then when you have it, it's like you have no time for anything.

01:11:10Marc:No, I know.

01:11:11Marc:I just got done shooting and never stopped.

01:11:13Guest:Are you in the editing bay the entire time?

01:11:15Marc:Well, what I do is usually I look at the passes.

01:11:19Marc:I have showrunners that sit with the editors, and I look at the director's pass, and then we just all chip away at it.

01:11:25Marc:I'll go into the bay sometimes, but usually I just look at cuts and make notes.

01:11:29Guest:For some reason, Ricky and I are in the editing bay.

01:11:31Guest:That's good.

01:11:32Marc:40, 50 hours a week.

01:11:33Marc:No, it's good.

01:11:34Guest:And then, you know, the weekend.

01:11:35Marc:You're the showrunner though, right?

01:11:37Guest:Yeah.

01:11:37Marc:So that's, you know.

01:11:38Guest:Yeah.

01:11:39Guest:And also, you know, when you're trying to find the tone to a show and also our show's a period piece.

01:11:43Marc:Yeah, and you gotta lead the air.

01:11:45Marc:That's the biggest thing about doing comedy when...

01:11:49Marc:there's no audience is that, you know, you gotta let things land and you just have to have an instinct for that.

01:11:53Marc:Like, you know, when somebody delivers something, it's like, give it a half second.

01:11:56Marc:Because a lot of times editors, they're just, it's like, no, just another half second.

01:12:02Guest:It goes by too fast.

01:12:02Guest:Yeah.

01:12:03Guest:You do that?

01:12:04Guest:Yeah, I mean, the problem with our show is it's only 21 minutes.

01:12:07Guest:So it's like, there's like 14 lead characters and I don't really understand how it's, yeah, I never really thought about that.

01:12:14Guest:Like a television show has to be an exact amount of time.

01:12:18Guest:Yeah, it's like it's not only it's like 21 minutes and 46 seconds and then like two frames.

01:12:24Guest:Like that's how long.

01:12:25Marc:And it's like the editing is everything comes out long.

01:12:27Marc:And then you like really have to, you know, kind of start cutting it.

01:12:31Guest:And then do you cut the things that you're sick of?

01:12:33Guest:Are you cutting the best jokes or you cut it?

01:12:35Marc:You know, if there's a story, it usually comes down to making sure you honor the story.

01:12:40Guest:Right, but then all the funniest stuff sometimes has to leave.

01:12:42Marc:And then you gotta be like, well, the story has to make sense, right?

01:12:46Marc:But then you gotta leave, you gotta make your choices with funny stuff.

01:12:50Marc:Shit has to go sometimes.

01:12:51Marc:What are you gonna do?

01:12:52Marc:It's just the nature of the fucking beast, right?

01:12:55Guest:So what do people do when they make movies?

01:12:56Guest:Does everything gets to stay that they want?

01:12:58Guest:Like Judd Apatow, it's like anything.

01:12:59Marc:Clearly with him, anything gets to stay.

01:13:02Marc:He'll go ahead and let a movie be two and a half hours long.

01:13:05Marc:That could reasonably be an hour and a half.

01:13:08Marc:And he knows that.

01:13:09Marc:But he's like, fuck it.

01:13:11Guest:I like it all.

01:13:11Guest:That sounds so glamorous.

01:13:13Marc:Well, yeah, he's got a certain amount of freedom, that guy.

01:13:15Marc:And he's a great guy.

01:13:16Marc:He's a rare thing.

01:13:18Guest:Yeah, I like him every time I talk to him.

01:13:20Marc:Yeah, he's great.

01:13:21Marc:And now he's doing stand-up.

01:13:22Marc:And at first we were all like, oh, fuck.

01:13:23Marc:Apatow's going to just come back to stand-up.

01:13:26Marc:But now you're like, oh, he's really working.

01:13:27Marc:No, he's funny.

01:13:29Marc:It's great.

01:13:30Marc:I think it's hilarious that this is what he wanted to do.

01:13:32Marc:He's just picking it back up.

01:13:34Guest:right he just went out and did everything else successfully and now he wants to get back started with the stand-up again and he's earnest about it i remember zach galifianakis saying i think it was him said like the stand-up's the only thing or once you get successful you don't have to do it anymore yeah zach's right i'm not gonna do it a lot of people think that way i think that way in a way like it's certainly i it's going on the road right now it's like not fun

01:14:00Guest:I just went to Iowa two days ago, and it was like four flights in 24 hours.

01:14:05Marc:I just went to Iowa, too.

01:14:06Marc:Where'd you play?

01:14:07Guest:Iowa City?

01:14:08Marc:Yeah, Iowa City.

01:14:09Marc:I went to Iowa City.

01:14:09Guest:That college?

01:14:11Marc:I was there for the festival, and I did it.

01:14:13Guest:The Floodwater Festival.

01:14:14Guest:They booked me as a headliner of this festival, and then they called me, and they're like, just so you know, we also booked Amy Schumer on the same night.

01:14:22Guest:That's the worst.

01:14:23Guest:So they booked Amy at the arena, and then kept me there,

01:14:27Marc:Did you do that little theater?

01:14:29Marc:I did a little theater.

01:14:30Guest:Yeah.

01:14:30Guest:I mean, it was a great show, but it wasn't full.

01:14:33Guest:Right.

01:14:34Guest:And they put us at the same price point.

01:14:36Guest:But anyway, so that was Iowa.

01:14:39Guest:It was just the Midwest.

01:14:40Guest:It's hard for me to go to.

01:14:41Marc:I just did Iowa City.

01:14:43Marc:I did Lincoln.

01:14:44Marc:I did Kansas City.

01:14:44Marc:It was the first time that I really did a Midwest run.

01:14:46Marc:It went pretty good.

01:14:47Guest:But you're the kind of comic, you could probably do like two hours, right?

01:14:51Guest:I'm not like that.

01:14:53Guest:I'm bored of myself after that amount of time.

01:14:56Guest:I'm good at like 44, 30, I'm off.

01:15:00Marc:Right, I get it.

01:15:03Guest:It's enough.

01:15:04Marc:I know, it probably is.

01:15:05Guest:And when it's going great, I love it, but when it's work, it's hard.

01:15:10Marc:When you gotta get them over and over again.

01:15:12Guest:I just need to have some time to work on new jokes.

01:15:16Marc:Yes, you do.

01:15:17Guest:Because that's what'll bring me there.

01:15:19Marc:Oh yeah, I just need one.

01:15:20Marc:We'll kind of liven up the whole thing.

01:15:23Marc:If you get one big new bit, everything else comes to life.

01:15:26Marc:But also, I don't know, for me, stand-up was always what I set out to do.

01:15:30Marc:So me doing it, it's like the core of who I am.

01:15:35Marc:So I don't ever really think, I'm gonna get out of that.

01:15:38Marc:You know what I mean?

01:15:39Marc:I sometimes think, what the fuck am I gonna do now?

01:15:42Marc:Like, I got to do a new hour?

01:15:43Marc:How does that happen?

01:15:45Marc:And I've done like seven.

01:15:46Marc:So...

01:15:48Marc:But like every time I'm up against it, I'm like, there's no way.

01:15:51Guest:That reminds me when Larry David said they wanted them to do like five more Seinfelds after the first season.

01:15:56Guest:He's like, there's no way I'll never be able to do that.

01:15:58Marc:Yeah, exactly.

01:15:59Marc:And then you do it.

01:16:00Marc:You're up against the wall and you do it.

01:16:02Guest:I think it's such a it's such a great art form.

01:16:05Guest:And I feel so lucky to be a part of it.

01:16:06Guest:And I want to always do it.

01:16:07Guest:Like, I feel like it ages well, too.

01:16:10Guest:Like, I feel like as an old lady, like, who doesn't want to be doing that?

01:16:14Marc:It's like it is the most forgiving.

01:16:15Guest:What, do I want to be on camera?

01:16:16Marc:Right.

01:16:16Marc:It's the most forgiving job in show business because it is not age relative.

01:16:21Guest:No, it's not age relative.

01:16:23Guest:And I mean, you do have to stay current.

01:16:25Marc:No, no.

01:16:26Marc:You got to be good.

01:16:26Marc:You got to be funny.

01:16:27Guest:You have to be funny.

01:16:30Guest:But yeah, I want to always do it.

01:16:31Guest:It's just getting inspired again.

01:16:33Marc:I think you got a shtick that's got legs.

01:16:37Marc:It can go on for a while.

01:16:39Marc:Even as you get older, like you could be 60 and still wearing your fun boots.

01:16:43Guest:I don't wear boots so much anymore, Mark.

01:16:46Marc:I'm sorry.

01:16:47Marc:Well, let's go watch the trailer for another period so I can get up to speed and everyone should go watch it.

01:16:53Marc:I looked at very little of it and I like it.

01:16:56Guest:Thank you.

01:16:57Guest:I'm excited about it.

01:16:59Marc:And I definitely was not keeping you off the show.

01:17:02Marc:I was just probably nervous.

01:17:04Marc:That's all.

01:17:05Guest:Or worse, did you just overlook me?

01:17:08Marc:No, I love you.

01:17:09Marc:I've never had any bad feelings.

01:17:12Marc:I've probably had too good feelings about you.

01:17:16Marc:At different points in my life.

01:17:19Guest:Okay, I'll take that as a compliment.

01:17:20Marc:All right, well, thank you for doing it.

01:17:22Guest:Okay, that was fun.

01:17:28Marc:All right, that was me and Natasha Leggero, the lovely Natasha Leggero.

01:17:32Marc:I really love talking to her.

01:17:33Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:17:37Marc:Check the tour.

01:17:38Marc:Check the merch.

01:17:39Marc:Whatever you need.

01:17:40Marc:All right?

01:17:41Marc:Maybe I'll play a little guitar.

01:17:42Marc:I got the...

01:17:43Marc:I got the dirty old man hooked up.

01:17:47Marc:A little 58 Deluxe.

01:17:48Marc:Maybe I'll go straight in.

01:17:49Marc:I had to move it across the room so I don't fucking hurt my ears.

01:17:52Marc:Now I'm wearing earplugs too because I'm getting old and my ears are fucked up from headsets and loud music.

01:18:03Marc:So let's see if I can get this going.

01:18:12Music

01:18:16Guest:Boomer lives!

01:18:42Marc:So does Scaredy.