Episode 704 - Ali Wong
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is my podcast WTF.
Marc:Welcome.
Marc:Thank you for joining.
Marc:As you can tell, I'm still a little sickish.
Marc:My voice is still a little fucked up.
Marc:The trip to New York that I just got back from today and I'm talking to you now.
Marc:This is now, well, this will be the day after my show on IFC Marin premieres with the first two episodes last night.
Marc:I hope you liked it.
Marc:It's definitely different.
Marc:We're going a different direction with the same guy.
Marc:Not a happy direction initially, but is it ever?
Marc:Isn't that the big question?
Marc:If you did miss it, I can direct you to these other places.
Marc:Today, the day after the show, you can go to ifc.com.
Marc:You can go to Amazon.
Marc:You can go to iTunes to pick up those episodes.
Marc:We're all very proud of this season and very excited about it and very interested in how it is received.
Marc:But I love it, and it was a great experience for me.
Marc:So I hope you enjoy that.
Marc:I don't know if you saw me on Fallon the other night.
Marc:I guess I'm going to toot my own horn this whole fucking show because there were a couple of, I would say for me,
Marc:lifetime highlights in very subtle ways, but very profound to me.
Marc:And, uh, I want to share them with you because, you know, I, I'm, I'm not at the top of the world, but I, I am experiencing some, some nice things and, and, and I appreciate them.
Marc:And I, and I would like to share them with you if that's okay.
Marc:I, you know, I'm not, uh, why do I have to disclaimer?
Marc:You know, why am I offering you a disclaimer for, for relative happiness?
Marc:Um,
Marc:You know, if you're going to stop listening because I'm not as much of a dick as I used to be or I'm not as disgruntled as I used to be, well, then I would encourage you to wait because if I know myself, these things come back around or don't.
Marc:But today on the show, I'm very excited to have Ali Wong.
Marc:Her special, Baby Cobra, which I got to watch.
Marc:It premieres tomorrow, Friday, May 6th.
Marc:Was one of the best stand-up comedy specials I've seen in a long time.
Marc:I met Ali years ago.
Marc:She featured for me or opened for me.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:I talked to her about it.
Marc:Up in San Francisco.
Marc:And I knew she was like...
Marc:A force.
Marc:She's very specifically focused.
Marc:She just has endurance.
Marc:She'll fucking deliver her shit.
Marc:She's raw.
Marc:She's smart.
Marc:She's got fucking guts.
Marc:And her jokes are good.
Marc:And it's provocative.
Marc:And I need you to watch this special because I fucking loved it.
Marc:It's got a surprise ending in a way.
Marc:And it's just great.
Marc:It's just fucking raw, beautiful comedy.
Marc:You don't see this kind of shit that often.
Marc:Personal, raw, dirty, smart fucking comedy.
Marc:And she delivers it.
Marc:When she sent me the link to her special, I'm like, oh, my God.
Marc:Because I know I like her.
Marc:I know I like her style.
Marc:And I know I like what I've seen.
Marc:But I watched the special, and I'm like, oh, fuck, yes.
Marc:She's out there seven months pregnant, doesn't even really mention it for two-thirds of the special.
Marc:It was just fucking... Can I say this about a woman?
Marc:It was ballsy, man.
Marc:It is a ballsy comedy special.
Marc:And I loved having her.
Marc:And there was a surprise during the interview, something that I've never experienced and I don't think has ever happened in this garage.
Marc:So look forward to that.
Marc:So New York City, folks, New York City.
Marc:It was raining and shitty the whole time we were there.
Marc:We're both getting sicker, right?
Marc:You know, I'm doing a little press here, a little press there, right?
Marc:And then I go, here's the funny thing.
Marc:Lin-Manuel, the creator and writer and star of Hamilton,
Marc:And I had heard was a big fan of WTF and I'd never met him before.
Marc:And the plan was I was going to go see Hamilton and then interview him.
Marc:And and we didn't have time to do the interview because the following day he got all these Tony nominations.
Marc:And I had you know, I had a big press day and I had Jimmy Fallon show.
Marc:But here's the beauty.
Marc:Hamilton is great.
Marc:And I'm obviously not the first guy to say that, but it's great for reasons that are new to me because I don't go to musicals that often.
Marc:And I saw two, and I enjoyed both of them.
Marc:And after the first act, there was part of me in both of them like, how much more could there be?
Marc:And then the second act, it's like, oh, it all comes together and it's fucking amazing.
Marc:But the thing about Hamilton is that not only is it a unique history lesson about a sort of...
Marc:you know, sidelined historical figure among the founders.
Marc:But it's done in a way that is risky and it's provocative and it's human.
Marc:But the way it's framed, the entire thing becomes an immigrant story.
Marc:It becomes the story of the founding of America.
Marc:And it's an America for all types of people.
Marc:And it's a uniquely New York show because it takes place in New York and it's got a New York flavor, both current and from the 1700s.
Marc:And it's designed so anybody can play these roles because America is for everybody.
Marc:Lin-Manuel Miranda, the guy who created it, played Alexander Hamilton.
Marc:Aaron Burr was Leslie Odom Jr.
Marc:Great.
Marc:George Washington, played by Christopher Jackson.
Marc:Great.
Marc:King George, I believe, was Rory O'Malley.
Marc:He was great.
Marc:I'm not sure if this is the most current cast because I'd heard that maybe there's two guys that played that.
Marc:I hope not.
Marc:eliza hamilton was great angelica schuler uh and uh david diggs who played lafayette and thomas jefferson was amazing amazing uh yeah it was it was it was everything that they say it is you know it is a musical so i mean don't go expecting you know to leave and and your your cancer is cured i mean it's a musical and it's a great musical and i don't see a lot of musicals it reminded me of jesus christ superstar
Marc:You know, it had a darkness to it that was elevated and everything is like, you know, the resolution is like, you know, the beginning of America.
Marc:So anyways, I was happy to have seen it.
Marc:But here's what happens.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So at intermission, the house manager comes up to me and says, Lynn wants you to come backstage and say, hi, just meet me over there at that door.
Marc:And I'm like, of course, you know.
Marc:So the play ends.
Marc:It's a standing ovation.
Marc:It's beautiful.
Marc:Standing ovations are beautiful when you get them and when you're part of them.
Marc:The cast is taking their bows and there's a lot of people up there.
Marc:There's about 30 people.
Marc:They do a curtain call and they all bow and they start to walk off stage and I'm watching him.
Marc:Lin-Manuel is walking off stage.
Marc:He turns as he's walking off stage to a standing ovation of his show.
Marc:He turns and somehow looks directly at me and mouths Boomer Lives.
Marc:oh my god you know and it was just such a private beautiful large moment for me you know because who's gonna know you know and i just saw it directly i was looking right at him and he did it and i couldn't fucking believe it it was so fucking sweet and beautiful there's is it like uh made me feel special people it made me feel special and
Marc:And I went backstage.
Marc:We had a nice conversation.
Marc:And I met Christopher Jackson as well.
Marc:And we made plans.
Marc:I'm going to go back and talk to him.
Marc:And I'm excited to talk to him.
Marc:I'm excited to learn about theater.
Marc:And I've been doing that.
Marc:It's exciting.
Marc:It's a new thing.
Marc:It's a new thing.
Marc:And so that was a thrilling part of the New York trip.
Marc:You hear me?
Marc:Dig it.
Marc:So, okay, Jimmy Fallon.
Marc:I personally love Jimmy Fallon.
Marc:Great guy, fun guy.
Marc:I'm always happy to see him.
Marc:And I was excited that they let me come on The Tonight Show because I had not done The Tonight Show.
Marc:I've only done one other Tonight Show.
Marc:So I go to a 30 Rock.
Marc:Sarah goes with me, hanging out, getting ready to go on, changing my shirt.
Marc:And Lorne Michaels just walks in.
Marc:Hey, how's it going?
Marc:How you doing?
Marc:I'm like, what?
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Like he just dropped by to chat.
Marc:And he hung out for about five, ten minutes.
Marc:Just talking.
Marc:Asked me how I was doing, what was going on, how I was feeling.
Marc:We talked about Louie for a little while and about comedy.
Marc:And he said, I got to go.
Marc:Got to go across the hall and go to work.
Marc:I'm like, all right.
Marc:Nice to see you.
Marc:It was.
Marc:I don't know what to tell you, people.
Marc:um i don't know what to say it was a very nice thing and i was very i was excited to see him it's very nice where you know where i've got this place in the world that's mine i don't really need anything from anybody i really don't and i like talking to people and i like doing what i do but i just uh you know i'm okay i'm okay where i'm at and it was nice that you know
Marc:I don't think we're going to be hanging out.
Marc:I don't know that we're going to go out to dinner or anything, but it was a cool experience for me.
Marc:All right?
Marc:It was nice.
Marc:It was nice to be relaxed and not need anything and just have a chat with a guy that I've got to know by talking to him on this show, and he just happens to be Warren Michaels.
Marc:Is that okay?
Marc:Can I have that experience?
Marc:All right, look.
Marc:Here's what I got to tell you.
Marc:I'm serious about Ali Wong.
Marc:I'm serious that you should watch his special.
Marc:It's called Baby Cobra, premieres on Netflix tomorrow, May 6th.
Marc:I'm not being paid by Netflix.
Marc:I'm not... I just...
Marc:is she kind of blew me away and i was excited about that and i'm glad that this timed out and we could have her on the show and uh talk to her because uh she's she's a great comic so let's uh let's talk now uh embrace yourself there is a what am i saying that for it's a beautiful thing it's a beautiful thing that happens and all right so this is me and ali wong
Marc:How old is this kid now?
Guest:She's almost five months.
Marc:She's five months.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A girl.
Marc:You had a girl.
Guest:A girl.
Marc:Yeah, like, I sort of, you know, only seeing you at the comedy store, it's just like, oh, she's pregnant, and I'm like, oh, she must have, you know, so I don't know, like, our lives only cross in that way, so I guess, well, everything went all right.
Marc:There she is in her sweatpants without the...
Marc:Without the baby.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I only wear sweatpants now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I can't handle any buttons, any zippers.
Guest:I can only pull.
Guest:Why?
Guest:It's too much, dude.
Guest:It's like when you have a kid, it's awesome.
Guest:And it's not... For me, it hasn't been as hard as everybody says it was.
Guest:But it's relentless.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So like any way you can shave off minutes...
Guest:Let's do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So like a button going to get in my way of going into taking a pee, go taking a shower.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Cutting it out.
Guest:No more buttons.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you have to deal with the kid constantly.
Marc:When do you start getting help to deal with the kid?
Guest:I got help two months out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and it's amazing.
Guest:So I've been having help.
Guest:So I mean, I complain about it a lot on stage.
Guest:But really, it's been pretty great.
Guest:And not, like I said, not as hard as everybody said it was going to be.
Guest:That's because she's a chill baby and also because...
Guest:um you know people complain a lot about the lack of sleep but when you're a comic and you had to do the road when you're not famous yeah and you have to do like radio right and fly to horrible parts of the united states yeah and then get up in the morning to drive to another part in the united states to perform for like a lackluster crowd that was really hard
Marc:Well, you made it sound so good, comedy.
Guest:Comedy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, when you're not like an overnight success and you're like doing the long road, you know, you have like the long, longer road.
Guest:It's like, it's, you know, and you're doing the road like that.
Marc:I fucking loved your special.
Marc:I watched it.
Guest:Oh, thanks, man.
Marc:It's like one of the best specials I've seen in a long time.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:That means so much.
Marc:Does it?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, I mean, I always liked you and I'm trying to remember, like I had this thing.
Marc:Did you feature for me in San Francisco once?
Guest:I hosted for you fresh off of one of your divorces.
Guest:I don't know which one it was.
Marc:Must have been like 2006-ish, seven.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:And to be honest, like everybody was hyping up this guy, Marc Maron and everything.
Guest:And like you were a legend.
Guest:And I was like, oh, my God, I cannot wait to host for him.
Guest:And you were depressed dot com.
Guest:And the whole set was just you sitting on the stool trying to process your divorce.
Guest:I swear to God, it was as if you had just gotten divorced, like literally right before you got on stage.
Marc:Probably.
Marc:She probably just left me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And was that one of your first opening gigs?
Guest:It was.
Marc:So when was that?
Marc:Give me the date.
Marc:Was it 2006?
Guest:I think it was 2006.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So yeah, that makes sense.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I remember you were so fucking funny.
Marc:And I actually had one of these things where I had years later.
Marc:This was a few years ago.
Marc:Like, I was doing a bit about yoga, and I'm like, why does this feel familiar?
Marc:It wasn't, like, didn't you used to do, like, a bitter yoga instructor bit?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Right.
Guest:How they, like, gosh, I forgot about that.
Guest:You know how they do all their diatribes at the beginning of class?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then they'll just be like, okay, you know, we're going to really focus on breathing, and I really need to focus on my breathing because I'm...
Marc:having bad thoughts you know because my i'm in a custody battle with my husband and i need strength and you're just like oh get me out of here um yeah so i think i did used to do something right well i did a guy i just did a guy in class you know like that this sort of in i do the position i'd be in in just hating on the teacher like oh fuck you fuck you this is it was different but like i remembered like gosh did the yoga teacher thing
Marc:Like the bitter, like sort of, that was funny.
Marc:Why don't you do that anymore?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Things really.
Marc:Oh no, they go away, right?
Guest:They come and go for me.
Marc:When did you start doing comedy?
Guest:Right after, stand-up comedy, I started doing it right after college.
Guest:Maybe when I was 23 years old, so that was like in 2000.
Guest:Five.
Marc:And you grew up in the Bay Area the whole time?
Guest:I grew up in San Francisco.
Guest:Right in San Francisco.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like what neighborhood?
Guest:In Pacific Heights.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, right by Temple Manuel.
Marc:Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Marc:And like watching the special, like it's weird because your special, like there's actually a spoiler possibility.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Maybe don't spoil that.
Marc:No, no, no, I won't.
Marc:But like it's like it was so fucking beautiful and crass and fucking ballsy and you're all pregnant dressed in tight dress.
Yeah.
Marc:I fucking loved it.
Guest:Oh, thanks, man.
Marc:You know, it's like just being straight up honest and being, you know, like as smartly filthy as you were was really smart.
Guest:Oh, thanks.
Guest:It's very, I mean, I don't like, you know, a lot of people I think have intentions about the kind of comic they want to be.
Guest:And I, it's so hard to just be funny.
Guest:And that's all I ever wanted to be.
Guest:And even now, it's like, what is going to make them laugh and what's going to make me laugh?
Marc:And also honest.
Guest:That's the goal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And honest.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I don't want to do... There's some...
Guest:I mean, hopefully I don't do hacky stuff and I don't want to because it doesn't make me laugh.
Guest:Even if it makes other people laugh, if it doesn't make me laugh, then I don't want to do it.
Marc:The funny thing is about your approach to being a woman is you know the hacky avenues and there really isn't any.
Marc:And everything that you bring up, what I thought was amazing is not only does what you're talking about
Marc:Whether it be shitting or anal or fucking.
Marc:Not only does it make men uncomfortable, but it makes women uncomfortable.
Marc:But they're so happy that there's a revelation.
Marc:You literally do stuff in depth.
Marc:Not like just pay lip service.
Marc:That women do not fucking talk about in public.
Marc:Oh, that whole prostate thing.
Marc:See, I'm just going to drop little nuggets.
Marc:I'm not going to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, because it's true for me, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's the honest thing.
Guest:It's like, you know, I'm like obviously kind of like a perverted, gross, freaky person.
Guest:And I mean, I do talk in my special about how...
Guest:And it's like sticking my fingers up a man's butthole, a straight man's ass is so exciting to me.
Guest:It's like I went to Disneyland recently and I got this special hookup where I got to skip all the lines, got to go on all these awesome roller coasters.
Guest:None of that was exciting to me than sticking my fingers up a straight man's ass.
Guest:man's butthole like when you're the first to do it it's so exciting it's so like because there's all this like besides the physical stuff it's like I mean at my age and like at this point in my life sex is like 99% mental shit anyways and for me to get aroused it's like doggy style spanking don't cut it no more I have to wage psychological warfare on a man in order for me to come yeah
Marc:so but yeah but like also the way you characterize the dude sort of being sort of like no no no yeah i just like i don't know what it is whether it's san francisco or like because there is both your comedic style and also the sexuality that you're exposed to just by living there culturally like you know with the with the size of especially the male gay community you're like you hear about fucking everything
Marc:And you live with it all the time.
Marc:And you talk to people about it.
Marc:And the intensity of those conversations and the type of sexuality that happens in that town almost publicly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, and I grew up, you know, my dad was a doctor.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And he worked in the ER.
Guest:What kind of doctor?
Guest:He's an anesthesiologist.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And he would tell me about all the crazy things he would see as a result of people's like sexual adventures.
Guest:He would see, you know, in the ER.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Men would come in with like 50 Barbie heads in their butt.
Guest:Get the fuck out of here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All sorts of stuff.
Marc:We just used, I don't want to, well, I don't know when this is going to go on.
Marc:We just used a guy putting a Barbie doll head in his ass on my TV show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I'm glad to see that there's a, you know, it's a thing because you can see again how like sex is like a lot of it is mental stuff.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Why does that arouse you?
Guest:Maybe because you like to play with Barbies and who knows?
Marc:Well, fetish, the world of fetish is like, God, that's you can't even explain it.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, so really?
Guest:So he would talk openly about all that stuff.
Marc:So he's pretty progressive guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:In a way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My dad was really, really progressive.
Guest:Both my parents.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you have just one brother.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I have a brother and two sisters.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I was the last.
Guest:They're all 10 years and up.
Marc:So your mom is really in her 80s?
Guest:My mom is, she's in her late 70s now.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And your dad's- He's gone.
Guest:He's gone.
Guest:He passed away.
Guest:He passed away about five years ago or so.
Marc:So you're growing up in San Francisco, and just judging by the set, you were pretty wild-
Guest:Yeah, I was like in high school.
Guest:I went to like a private school and did a lot of drinking.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I was.
Marc:But you grew up like middle class, like comfortable, right?
Guest:Yeah, totally comfortable.
Guest:And I mean, for no good reason.
Guest:I didn't have a lot of angst or anything.
Guest:It was just like.
Guest:Fuck it.
Guest:Fuck it, it's something to do.
Guest:And I drank a lot.
Guest:At one point, I think I remember I drank in high school like two and a half of those 40 ounces of Old English.
Guest:Disgusting.
Marc:Yeah, blackout.
Guest:Yeah, I'm surprised that I'm still here.
Marc:Yeah, what about drugs?
Guest:No, I was not that big into drugs.
Guest:And then because weed always made me paranoid and I was scared to do anything else.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I haven't.
Guest:And since then, I haven't really been into drugs.
Guest:Like I kind of stopped in high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I met my husband who is really into ayahuasca.
Guest:And then we- How old are you guys?
Guest:We're both like, I'm 33 and he's 34.
Guest:And then I hadn't done anything except for weed since high school.
Guest:And it was like zero to 100.
Marc:Did you do it in this sort of environment with other people, the whole ayahuasca thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We've done it a couple times together now.
Guest:At first I did it just to prove to him that I could be his warrior princess because I really liked him.
Guest:And I was like, oh, looks.
Guest:It's part of the test.
Guest:Yeah, it's part of the test.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But then a lot came out and it was wonderful.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Wait, let's back up.
Marc:So your husband is like, what's he do for a job?
Guest:He works in startup stuff now.
Marc:Oh, so he's like one, you know, he's like a business dude.
Marc:He's like gambling, looking for the app money.
Guest:That's when he's doing his own startup thing.
Guest:But now he's like with an established startup.
Guest:But before, I mean, he'll go back and forth between like a corporate thing, his thing, and then another thing.
Guest:Yeah, he's doing great.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So this is a grown man and he's a grown man.
Guest:He's like an Asian dude with Aztec undertones.
Guest:It's very hard to understand him.
Marc:Where did he grow up?
Guest:He grew up in D.C.
Marc:With like another middle class guy.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And you're special.
Marc:He went to Harvard Business School.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:So very cultured.
Guest:Very cultured.
Marc:Was his parents in politics or something?
Guest:No.
Guest:Do you know those little octopuses that came in your cereal when we were younger that you would throw on the wall and that were sticky?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:His dad was like the distributor of those.
Guest:And then his mom worked at the World Bank.
Wow.
Guest:They're awesome.
Marc:The distributor of sticky octopuses?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he had a show on the East Coast called Dr. Fad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is his dad?
Guest:This is his dad.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So it's so funny because my dad was like a really unconventional, quirky Asian guy who always surprised people with his quirkiness.
Guest:And then when now my friends meet my husband's dad, they're like, wow, that's so crazy.
Guest:What are the odds?
Guest:What are the odds?
Marc:You both have these same weirdo dads.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But his dad's what?
Marc:Japanese?
Guest:Japanese.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And your dad's Chinese?
Guest:My dad's Chinese.
Marc:And his mom's Filipino?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And my mom's Vietnamese.
Guest:So we gave birth to Asia.
Marc:All of it.
Guest:All of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What's the kid look like?
Guest:She looks Japanese.
Marc:She does.
Guest:Very... Whatever.
Guest:She can look like however she wants to look like, but I wish she looked a little bit more like me.
Marc:But part of me is... What do you think you look like?
Marc:Thai?
Guest:Um... I don't know.
Guest:When I'm in Vietnam, people think I'm Japanese, but I think that's because of the way I dress.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:And because I wear interesting glasses, I don't know.
Guest:But most people can guess that I'm Chinese.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm kind of Southeast Asian.
Marc:But your dad, did they speak Chinese?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So it's kind of...
Guest:A lot of my other friends who are Asian American, who I went to UCLA with, their parents came more recently.
Guest:But my mom came from Vietnam in the 1960s, which is very unusual because most Vietnamese people came after 1975.
Marc:Was she leaving the war?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:She came on a scholarship to just study at a college in the Midwest.
Marc:She got lucky, huh?
Guest:She got really lucky.
Guest:And then my dad was born and raised in San Francisco, in San Francisco, Chinatown.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Marc:And he grew up- In Chinatown?
Guest:In Chinatown.
Marc:Like, wow.
Guest:Super poor, no running water, stretched up, like slept in a twin bed with his two sisters and his mom, like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory style, feet by the head.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:um no running water in chinatown in san francisco in chinatown san francisco had to like like fish out vegetables out of the garbage oh my god yeah crazy with his mother so like when he when he succeeded were they around to appreciate and enjoy that yeah yeah that's a hell of a story yeah so they were first generation his parents
Guest:Yeah, his parents came here.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Through Angel Island.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Which is, is that in San Francisco?
Marc:That's like the Ellis Island of the West Coast?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Which is all probably Asian immigrants.
Guest:It's all Asian immigrants.
Guest:His dad, my grandfather came when he was eight years old to work as a house boy.
Marc:In San Francisco?
Guest:In Monterey.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah, but he came when he was eight years old by himself.
Guest:And we have a picture from Angel Island.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This black and white picture.
Guest:And he's just, he's so small.
Guest:It's like it.
Marc:Did you know him?
Guest:Barely.
Guest:He passed away when I was in second grade.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I didn't really have much, and then I couldn't communicate with my grandma on my mom's side at all.
Guest:So I didn't really have much of a relationship with her.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Is she here?
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you don't speak any of the languages?
Guest:No.
Guest:I speak conversational Vietnamese, but that's because I went and did this program in college and after college to learn Vietnamese.
Guest:But it's like, I have the proficiency of maybe like a second grader.
Marc:Right, which is kind of cute probably to some people.
Guest:Not to Vietnamese people.
Guest:They're like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Guest:Just speak English.
Guest:And I thought my mom would be excited and she's like, this is so exhausting.
Guest:Trying to hear your long ass, slow, boring sentences about what time is it?
Guest:Basic shit.
Guest:Let's talk about real shit in English, please.
Marc:Does she talk like that?
Marc:no she doesn't talk like that but the spirit is like that so now like with something like that were they were they discouraged to be married because of the two you know like a jew thing like where it's sort of like was your dad's mom like don't marry a vietnamese lady i don't think so okay yeah and then none of that baggage
Guest:no and my mom was banging yeah too yeah i mean it's like it's crazy when you have a mom who is so much like you look at pictures of her and they're so much hotter than you will ever be so it's like i'm sure her you know my dad's parents were like yeah yeah get it you know yeah and where'd you meet your husband
Guest:At a wedding.
Guest:So he went to, I went to this, he went to Sidwell, which is where the like Obamas go to school.
Marc:Private school.
Guest:Yeah, private school in DC.
Guest:And then I went to like the Sidwell of San Francisco.
Guest:And then, so we went to school with all Jewish people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we went to this wedding in Napa where the bride, I went to high school with her and he went to high school with the husband.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were the only Asian people at the wedding and everybody else was Jewish.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I saw him and I was like, we were probably raised in the same economic bracket.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's hot.
Guest:I'm going to make this happen.
Marc:And he did.
Guest:And I did.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we turned out to click and he turned out to be a lot more interesting and weird and like fun than I had expected.
Guest:And it keeps, it keeps going that way.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, that's exciting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a good story.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But by that point, so you met him at a wedding, how old were you?
Marc:Were you already doing comedy?
Guest:Yeah, that was maybe five or six years ago.
Marc:So did he come watch you do comedy and have to... He did.
Guest:I sent him an email to come see me do a show because I was like, this guy, he's really good looking.
Guest:He looks like Joseph Gordon-Levitt.
Guest:And I was like, I am going to get this guy with my looks.
Guest:I got to...
Guest:It's either he's going to like the funny or he's not going to like the funny.
Guest:And that's my only shot.
Guest:And so I invited him to a show and he loved it.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then we went out on what I thought was a date, but he actually borrowed money from me on our first date.
Guest:And then I was like, fuck, this is not a date.
Yeah.
Guest:And then he borrowed money.
Guest:He borrowed money from me to pay for the date.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like one of those places in New York where you order at the counter and pick up your food at the counter.
Guest:And it was disgusting.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I was disappointed.
Guest:But then we just kept on going out.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, all right, so that brings us, so he had graduated Harvard Business already.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And when you met him, he was living in New York?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you were kind of going back and forth and doing some comedy and like hanging out with him?
Guest:I was living in New York at the time, too.
Guest:You were?
Guest:Yeah, so I lived in San Francisco for, I did comedy in San Francisco for maybe like four years, and then I lived in New York for like two years.
Marc:Doing comedy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I guess I never came across you then.
Marc:What were you doing, like the alt rooms and shit?
Guest:Yes, I was doing a lot of, doing the alt rooms, doing the clubs whenever I could.
Marc:Like comic strip?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you ever get in the cellar?
Guest:I did, but after I, yeah, I think I did towards the end.
Guest:And then I lived in New York again, because I was on this ABC medical drama.
Guest:I was shooting in New York, and then I was at the cellar like, yeah, I mean, I was at the cellar every night.
Marc:You were acting in a medical drama?
Guest:I was.
Marc:And you had a regular gig?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I played a quirky radiologist with agoraphobia, and I had a love arc with a plumber.
Marc:Which show was that?
Guest:It was called Black Box.
Guest:Vanessa Redgrave was in it.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And that was just an acting gig?
Guest:That was just an acting gig, yeah.
Guest:And it was great.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:How many episodes of that did it go?
Guest:13.
Marc:So it did a whole season.
Guest:It did a whole season.
Guest:It was in the summer.
Guest:It died.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:As things do.
Marc:But you're dating your boyfriend.
Marc:You're doing comedy and you're on a TV show.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Everything's going good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was one of the best times.
Guest:and then you come back here then i come back what brought you like how did it go so you were in san francisco doing comedy then you go to new york yeah and then it was like in san francisco there comes a point where i mean i used to joke that there's this saying that people who live in new york have a lot of ambition and a lot of talent and people who live in la have a lot of ambition and no talent and people in san francisco go to burning man
Guest:And I was like, I got, I felt that.
Guest:And I was like, I got to get out of here.
Guest:I can't like, I had friends who their whole lives were built around like Burning Man and like poetry night at the cafe.
Guest:That's what San Francisco used to be.
Guest:It's not like, you know, not this like dickish tech town that it is now.
Guest:And so I was like, I got to get out of here.
Guest:Like, and there was comics there who were just like ghosts who would just like, you know, your dream was to like get to be a feature at the punchline.
Guest:And they would just like,
Guest:be a feature forever.
Guest:And I'm like, I can't do that.
Marc:People don't leave.
Marc:It's the weirdest thing.
Marc:And when you're there, I never quite understood.
Marc:There's a lot of that sort of like, maybe not anymore because of the tech boom, but just culturally when I was there, I never knew what the fuck was going on just energy-wise.
Marc:I got the gay community, but there was this whole other world of people that just seemed to be lost in between college and being 90.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You're like, what are they...
Marc:What the fuck is happening?
Marc:You know, it's bizarre, man.
Marc:It's bizarre.
Marc:Like there's something about, I think weed is just killing the will of so many people.
Marc:They just, and also that.
Guest:And they hacked the system.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like there's so many awesome social services in San Francisco or like they found an apartment or something and they just like, they hacked that shit and somehow like are able to live in this beautiful apartment and
Guest:And, you know, smoke weed, just smoke weed, working on that zine.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, volunteering at 826 Valencia, like doing God knows, working at that nonprofit that takes, you know, people, children of color and hot air balloons once a year or something.
Marc:Yeah, and also there's just this thing about, you know, to be a big shot and big fish in a little pond.
Marc:There's a lot of that there.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:And a lot of guys, like a lot of people would come down here and just fucking hit the wall and then scramble back.
Marc:And they give up.
Marc:Yeah, on one turn.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know what, like back in the day, like those comics you're talking about, the San Francisco guys, they'd come, they'd do an evening of the improv, and they're like, I guess that's it.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Like, what the fuck you talking about?
Guest:I know.
Marc:It's hard to understand show business.
Marc:Like, there's a whole generation of comics.
Marc:Some people, and it's still that way, some people get into comedy to do comedy, and then they just expect show business to find them somehow.
Marc:I know.
Marc:And I'm like, what are you doing?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You gotta be full of anger and resentment and ambition.
Guest:Yeah, and that takes years to build up, too, a callus.
Guest:That's why it's like, the comics that I like, they have to have that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I only like comics who have been doing it for 10 years plus.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what the hell's going on.
Guest:I would say maybe 15 years plus even.
Marc:Yeah, because at least you're in the hands of a professional.
Marc:Even if you don't like their comedy, you're like, that person fits up there.
Guest:But they have to go that thing.
Guest:I heard that awesome interview you did with Patrice O'Neill.
Guest:And he talks about going on the roller coaster twice in this business.
Guest:And I think I only want to listen to people who have been on the roller coaster.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At least twice, you know, where they're not having as much fun on the second ride anymore because they're so filled with like anxiety that the roller coaster ride is going to end.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it's so human.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I identify with that.
Guest:That's how life is.
Guest:You know, that's how like relationships are.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like, I mean, it's interesting because, you know, with my parents, by the time they got to me, they understood the concept of dating.
Mm hmm.
Guest:They didn't understand that with my siblings at first, I think.
Guest:Like, the first person you date, you don't marry.
Guest:But they understand, like, you ramp up, you think you're going to marry this person, and then the relationship goes sour, and it dies.
Guest:And you move on, and the next person you find is better.
Guest:Or you just repeat the same thing over and over again for a few years.
Guest:Or you go on the same rollercoaster ride over and over again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just a different color, a different race.
Marc:And then you wonder one day why you're like, this is not even fun.
Marc:I know when it's going to, oh, here comes that thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you must have been like, you know, if the stuff in your special is based on truth, your parents must have been like, what the fuck are we going to do with her?
Guest:Kind of.
Guest:Or they were over it.
Guest:They were over it.
Guest:I mean, my sister is an unemployed lesbian, one of my sisters.
Guest:So they're like, do whatever the fuck you want.
Guest:Like, you make money, you, you know, great.
Guest:What?
Guest:And when they came to my shows and people were laughing in San Francisco, they couldn't believe it.
Guest:And they were so proud.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're really supportive.
Guest:And they were like, you know.
Marc:You realized it.
Marc:You did it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Even if they don't get it.
Guest:And I had ambition.
Guest:You know, they were like proud that I wanted to do something.
Marc:You're like a real comic.
Marc:I mean, you wanted to be a real comic.
Marc:I mean, when you were coming up in San Francisco, who were you watching there?
Marc:Because there was like the one thing about San Francisco when I lived there for that two years or whatever.
Marc:Like, it enabled a freedom of creativity on a comedy stage that no other place does.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Like, it's built into the fabric of the city.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just sort of, like, be yourself.
Marc:You know, and there's that whole kind of riff style that you kind of, like, are part of in a way.
Marc:I can tell that some of the influences.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Where you just sort of own the stage.
Marc:You have freedom of mind.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you do what you're going to do.
Marc:You define yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean...
Marc:They'll indulge some noodling, San Francisco.
Marc:They'll let you fucking dick off.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:And it's part because there's like homeless people on the street at Civic Center BART station who are like talking your ear off and people listen to them, you know?
Guest:So it's like they'll listen to anybody.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it was such a great place to come up.
Marc:You were like 23 when you started?
Guest:I was 23.
Marc:Where'd you go to college?
Guest:UCLA.
Marc:You did the whole four years?
Guest:I did the whole four years.
Marc:Studying what?
Guest:Asian American studies.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you're on top of that shit?
Guest:Got a handle on it?
Marc:You are Asian, now you are Asian American Studies.
Marc:You've got it all covered.
Guest:Well, and it's so interesting because I thought I was so passionate about it at the time and I was so into it.
Marc:Yeah, what was the angle though?
Marc:What did you think you were gonna do with it?
Guest:I thought maybe I would be like a professor or something, right?
Guest:And then this other guy who was in one of my classes was talking about how after he finished college,
Guest:he was not gonna continue with academia and Asian American studies and that he was gonna go into the restaurant business.
Guest:And he was like, yeah, I mean, you know, do you want to study or do you want to be studied?
Guest:And I was like, oh, I guess being studied sounds more glamorous.
Marc:That was an Asian guy?
Guest:It was an Asian guy.
Marc:Because that was a very simple philosophical kind of like almost zen-like question.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:There's something very Asian about the phrasing.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:It was like a Yoda phrase.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Buddha just came up to you through that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, and then, but I was in this comedy group also in college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it kind of.
Marc:Sketch group?
Guest:Sketch group.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So the first time you did stand up, was it like at the punchline?
Guest:I think it was at the Brainwash Cafe in San Francisco.
Guest:That place south of Market.
Guest:Yes, it's a laundromat slash cafe.
Guest:I think I was there when that started.
Guest:Full on homeless shelter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they'd have a show there.
Guest:They'd have a show there.
Guest:And you'd sign up.
Guest:You got to do like three or five minutes.
Marc:And there's all those washing machines.
Marc:And you can eat there too, right?
Marc:They had coffee and shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I remember that place.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I remember when that was happening.
Marc:Like at the very beginning maybe when I went back up there.
Marc:It was one of those things where...
Marc:I mean, you started when that was happening.
Marc:That shit wasn't happening when I started.
Guest:What?
Guest:Like shitty shows?
Guest:Well, all rooms.
Guest:That were kind of awesome?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Like that.
Marc:Like where it's sort of like, you know, there's this sort of idea.
Marc:It's like, yeah, there's a show at a laundromat.
Marc:Like in what world would that be a good thing?
Marc:Like when I was coming up, if someone said, you want to do this show at a laundromat?
Guest:Oh, now that's like the norm.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Now people fight to get on these shows.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And it's like, it's in a backyard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And there's a secret email list.
Guest:It's not even promoted on Twitter or whatever.
Guest:It's like, hey, how can I get on that show?
Guest:I'll still do the shittiest shows.
Marc:I was doing them up to like a year or so ago.
Marc:And then I realized, I don't need to.
Marc:I'm not going to.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just, I mean, recently, like I was like, I got to be part of that and like that audience.
Marc:And then like, you know, one day, you know, I just was at, you know, at one of them and I'm like, I just want to do real comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:At a real comedy place.
Marc:You know, like when you go to the store, you're like, this is like a real, this is where you do comedy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:For real.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's become your, I mean, you're one of those people where that's kind of become your open mic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's become the place.
Guest:I can do it there now.
Guest:Where you feel safe.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't totally have that yet.
Guest:And I don't know if I even want to have that place because sometimes when the audience is so shitty.
Guest:At the store?
Guest:No, not at the store, but like at these other shitty rooms.
Guest:Right.
Guest:When the circumstances are so shitty, you get that anger and then you blurt out things.
Marc:What you need.
Marc:Is that how you write?
Guest:That's how I write.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:I never write.
Guest:I only write on stage.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:I can't just sit.
Guest:It all has to come from like pure emotion.
Guest:It's the best.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you just feel like something streaming out of your mouth and you have like no pause between your brain and your mouth.
Marc:And then it's delivered.
Guest:It's delivered.
Guest:Oh, it's the best.
Guest:It's great, but it comes from honesty and emotion and frustration.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so that's why those rooms will always, I think, have value to me.
Guest:And I am one of those comics, too, who's like, I'm so in love with the process of stand-up comedy.
Guest:On the chance, one times out of 10, that I'll get a new bit, writing on stage, I chase after that all the time.
Guest:It's the best.
Guest:Yeah, and that's why with this kid, I still can't help but go out.
Marc:a lot yeah yeah at night well it's like it's our valve you know it's it's like where we actually have a voice yeah that you know that i i can't even explain it but i don't meet many people that write like that because i do it too and then you know you know when you have part of a new bit like it's working good enough and you're just waiting for it to finish itself when is this gonna finish itself and then and then one night it just comes and you're like
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, thanks.
Guest:There you were.
Guest:I've been waiting for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's the best.
Guest:It's the best.
Marc:Because, all right, so you're doing the laundromat.
Guest:Doing the laundromat.
Marc:And then you're doing the punchline.
Guest:Started, yeah, so, you know, Molly Schmink, the booger at the punchline.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:So great, had this whole system.
Marc:She is great.
Marc:I've known her since she was like 12, I think.
Guest:Oh, she's- She was there when she was like 15.
Guest:She's been there forever.
Guest:And so intimidating to me at first.
Marc:Well, she does that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then like, she's my friend now and I love her.
Guest:And she's like, she's just like a, you know, now she's a friend, but it was so scary because she, there was this system.
Guest:I don't know any club in any city that has this system where-
Guest:You wait in the back at the punchline every Sunday.
Guest:You get to know all the comics, watch people's sets.
Guest:There's 13 spots.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you wait like nine months to a year and a half to get one of those spots, your first shot.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I waited every Sunday and watched the same comics go up.
Guest:And people really wanted that.
Guest:And then finally I got my first shot.
Guest:And all of these older comics were really sweet and gave a recommendation from me.
Guest:And I ate it so hard.
Guest:But then she gave me another shot six months later and I did well.
Marc:Did you let on that you were eating it or just plow?
Marc:I just plow.
Marc:I'm a plower.
Marc:You are a plower.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't like to let on.
Guest:I'm like, what is the point?
Guest:I'm not going to come up with any new bits that are valuable about bombing.
Guest:I'm just going to, yeah.
Guest:To this day, I'm a plower.
Marc:Because sometimes you were doing that first spot in the original room sometimes, right?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I'll plow.
Marc:It's the worst.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to riff on like, are you from Australia?
Guest:Blah, blah, blah.
Marc:Why they're still seeding people?
Guest:Why they're still seeding people?
Guest:None of that has any value to me.
Guest:That's not what I feel about talking about in my soul.
Guest:Then I'm like, it becomes this exercise in just practicing saying the words.
Marc:And you're conscious of that?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Very conscious.
Marc:Like when you're up there plowing, like because I'm not a plower, you know, I'll be like you're an acknowledger.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And because I'm like, I'm not going to let you do this to me.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I hold them responsible.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Is this how it's going to be?
Marc:Fine.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But like when you're plowing, do you feel the bit not hit?
Guest:Yeah, and then I'll just keep going.
Guest:Again, just keep going.
Guest:I think that's a good- Get to the end of the finish line.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So I ate it, and then six months later, she put them again, and I did well.
Marc:But at that time, you're doing all rooms, getting your chops?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And-
Guest:I think pretty quickly, too.
Guest:I started putting on my own shows where I would headline, and I thought I had 40 minutes, and I would do 40 minutes at the Dark Room in San Francisco, which is a black box theater, and have other people like Kevin Kamiya or whatever feature.
Marc:That's the way to do it, though, because if I need to really write shit, I'm going to start at the Steve Allen Theater for two months, weekly, like every Tuesday over at the Steve Allen.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just and be like $5, and I'm just... Lower your expectations.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Let's see what happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So that was pretty...
Marc:Like, not only dedicated, but it was a smart thing to do.
Marc:Because, like, even if you didn't have 40 minutes, at least you're doing 40 minutes.
Guest:Yeah, and, like, Moshe Kasher and Brent Weinbach have put on a lot of their own shows.
Marc:Are they your generation?
Guest:No, they're older.
Guest:I mean, they started before me.
Guest:Did they?
Guest:They started maybe, like, four years before me.
Marc:Because I think he featured for me or opened for me when Moshe was, like, sort of disturbing looking.
Guest:Oh, hilarious.
Marc:You remember when he was all hip hoppy and fucking weird and like you couldn't quite see what his personality was because he was so uncomfortable and angry.
Guest:He's like Madonna.
Guest:He's gone through many awesome.
Marc:Well, now he's all sort of nice and clean and haircutted and he's got glasses that are sometimes colored pink.
Marc:You know, but like when I first worked with him, he was like frightening in a way because he was so unformed and so clearly mad.
Guest:Yeah, and then gradually at the punchline, the goal is to host, and then you meet all of these awesome headliners like yourself and Dave Attell, Patrice O'Neill.
Guest:Me on the wrong week, but I get it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yes, to be honest, yes.
Guest:Patrice O'Neill, who all helped me a lot when I moved to New York, Doug Benson,
Guest:And then I think someone said to me too, if you stay in San Francisco long enough to move up to feature at The Punch Line, you've stayed too long.
Guest:And then I was like, yeah.
Guest:And then after four years, and I felt it, and I was like, I gotta go.
Guest:I wanna go to New York, and I wanna become like, a great comic.
Guest:Yeah, I wanna become a great comic.
Guest:That's still the goal.
Guest:Even when people say to me like,
Guest:Oh, are you still doing the standup thing?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And I still feel like so insulted, so hurt.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, that is my thing.
Guest:That's the thing that I always do.
Marc:Amateurs ruined it.
Guest:Amateurs ruined it.
Guest:And I never got into standup as like a backdoor to TV writing or acting.
Guest:All of that is like a way for me to not do shitty shows anymore.
Guest:Like when I go out on the road, like when I travel, I want it.
Guest:Like that's why I'm hoping this special, you know, is a game changer for me because I hope that when I travel and I'm away from my daughter for like a night or three days, that it's worth it and that it feels good.
Guest:Because I can work out stuff in LA.
Guest:I love doing 15 minute spots in LA.
Guest:But when I go on the road, like I don't want to do...
Guest:like six days in the last smoking club in America anymore.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:I can't do that anymore.
Marc:That was sort of my realization when I started this podcast and I was looking down the barrel at being broke and being a comic for 20 years and being a headliner.
Marc:I was like, I don't want to do that for my whole life.
Guest:What?
Marc:You know, and, you know, all I ever wanted to be was a comic.
Marc:And then I had this fluky success with this secret skill.
Marc:And but still, like, for me, like, I just got done shooting a season of my show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So now, like, I got to I got put together another hour.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And there's that moment where you're like, I've only been doing Saturdays for four months because I'm shooting a TV show.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't fucking, where does, how does that happen?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How do I do a new hour?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then like, I know.
Marc:But then it feels so good too to like have that.
Marc:One joke.
Marc:One joke.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like one new joke.
Marc:Because I just, I did this special, which not many people saw.
Marc:And then I had to go out and do three, you know, three shows that were hours at theaters, small theaters.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm like, I don't, I've just got, I can't do all old stuff.
Guest:Did you do some old stuff?
Marc:I did a couple because- You have to.
Marc:Well, the weird thing is, is like most people haven't seen my special.
Marc:It was on Epix and now it's on Hulu and Amazon.
Marc:Like, what am I thinking?
Guest:That all 800 people made- Saw it and they're going to hold you accountable and they'll be like, seen it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Boom.
Guest:No new stuff.
Marc:That's somebody we invent.
Marc:That person lives in our head more than that.
Marc:There's one dick who will do that, but whatever.
Marc:Fuck them.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But the thing was, is like, because what you were talking about before, you know, that sort of like-
Marc:And just getting up there and like, this is where it happens, man.
Marc:And you don't even think that way.
Marc:I don't know about you, but when I'm going out there, I'm not like, okay, I hope something happens.
Marc:I do say that, but I'm like, I'm not hard on myself because once I get up there, if I've got the rage or I've got the thoughts...
Marc:They'll, you know, they'll come with the relationship with the audience.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I got one new chunk that I kind of polished over three weeks.
Marc:That's a nice big bit.
Marc:And I'm like, I'm going.
Guest:You're going.
Guest:And you can't.
Guest:And like that journey is like better than the result itself.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's why even like when, you know, a special is done, I'm like, I'm not done with those jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like I keep adding to them still.
Guest:Yeah, you can write.
Guest:And I watch it over and I'm like, oh, I could have refined that so much better.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It just, it never ends.
Marc:Well, that's what happens when you write like we do.
Marc:It's never finished.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You just expand the conversation.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And like I said, I'm still so in love with that, you know?
Marc:It's creative.
Marc:It's being a good comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're a very good comic.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Marc:Like, that fucking special's great.
Guest:Thanks.
Marc:Like, I've never seen, like, you know, it's, like, rare that, like, but I always like watching you, but the thing, because of, you know, your, you know,
Guest:you've had you've got fucking guts and and you're not afraid and your style i i like you know people who like you know kick some balls oh thanks i think it's also there's like this whole new there was like this thing when maybe i was starting to like even now maybe so it was like unfashionable to have energy yeah you know what i mean it was like look lazy
Guest:look lazy be soft spoken like you know because then it really speaks to the writing or something and that's no fun yeah yeah yeah so i but like when i'm working stuff out i will do that thing where i will be like very soft spoken to see because i do want to see if just the material will stand on itself without chris rock does that
Guest:Yeah, I'm really into that.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I think that's a really good technique because then once you pair it together with a big audience, then it's like, but you do want to, then if the material stands on its own with like you being all soft and it's like, okay, this is good.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you go San Francisco, New York, and then what brings you to LA?
Marc:Back to LA after all that.
Guest:I had gotten a manager and then he was like, you need to come to LA for pilot season.
Guest:And then I started working and doing some TV stuff, acting stuff.
Guest:And then I just decided to stay.
Guest:I was resisting it.
Guest:And then one day I was just like, I am gonna decide to like LA.
Guest:And as soon as I made that decision and stopped being bitter about how you have to drive everywhere and how it's like superficial, whatever.
Guest:And I embraced it.
Guest:I loved it, and now I can't see myself living anywhere else.
Guest:It's so authentically diverse.
Guest:San Francisco now is whack.
Guest:Sorry, but it's whack.
Guest:It's so unaffordable, so not diverse.
Guest:I live in Culver City, and my sister came with me to this comic book store two blocks away, and she was like,
Guest:there's a black dude running that comic book store and it blew her mind.
Guest:And she was like, you know, cause in San Francisco, she was like, she was like, this is, you know, LA is so crazy.
Guest:Like you have access to like all this amazing Asian food.
Guest:And in San Francisco is just like all rich white and Asian people.
Marc:The mission is like unidentifiable now.
Marc:It's like, what is this?
Marc:I lived at like 22nd and South Van Ness in 1992.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was like, it was like the wild West.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It was fucking crazy.
Guest:It was like The Walking Dead.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was nuts.
Marc:And there's still that one corner where you get out of the BART admission.
Guest:Yes, straight up squalor.
Guest:It's like, what is going on?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, how can you have this with all this money and everything?
Guest:But that still exists.
Marc:That one fucking corner.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's fucking exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You're like, thank God.
Guest:It's exciting if you didn't grow up in that.
Guest:And you're like, even as a kid.
Guest:It was all like that.
Guest:Yeah, even as a kid, I was like, leave me alone.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Stop trying to talk to me.
Guest:I don't feel sorry for any of you.
Marc:Okay, but with the husband, did he just move out here?
Marc:Where were you guys at?
Guest:He did.
Marc:You were in New York?
Guest:I was in New York, and then he moved to San Francisco to do startup stuff.
Guest:And then I was here, and I was like, what are we going to do, buddy?
Guest:I'm not coming back to San Francisco.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:What are we gonna do, buddy?
Guest:And I still can't believe to this day that he moved here for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it was like, I've never had anybody do that before.
Guest:And it still flatters me to this day that he did that.
Guest:With no community for him.
Guest:I had all my girlfriends from college and everything.
Marc:They're all here still?
Guest:They're all here, and I love them to death.
Guest:We all had kids at the same time, and we all hang out without the boob and breastfeed together while we complain about our kids.
Marc:Is there a place called Boob and Breastfeed?
Guest:There's a place called the Pump Station.
Guest:Oh, there is?
Guest:Where people do get together.
Guest:Those are for women who kind of, I think, don't have their tribe yet, and they need to find their tribe of women who are going through the same shit as them, because you need that.
Guest:And they gather, and they breastfeed together, and exchange tips on how to breastfeed better.
Marc:uh-huh because it's hard yeah it's hard so like i like this special is you like i love that you didn't even really fucking address that you were pregnant till two-thirds of the way in yeah because it's not about that i mean i had it's my first special i'm i never wanted to do and you just happen to be seven and a half months pregnant
Guest:Well, it was like it was I think it was time for me to do.
Guest:I felt like it was time for me to do a special because I'd been doing stand up comedy for 10 or so years.
Guest:And I was like, I want to put a lot of this material away.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had never done like a half hour or anything like that.
Guest:And also with the being pregnant thing, so many people discouraged me from having a kid because they were like, why are you going to have a kid?
Guest:We're never going to see you again.
Guest:Because it's true.
Guest:It's very rare to see a female comic who has a kid or is pregnant because female stand-up comics don't get pregnant.
Guest:Because once they do have a baby, they disappear.
Guest:They become a martyr and then they stop doing stand-up.
Guest:But that's not the case with male stand-up comics.
Guest:I talk about this on stage.
Guest:Male stand-up comics, they have a baby and they get up on stage like a week after the baby's born.
Guest:Talk about it.
Guest:And then they'll complain about how the baby's shitty and boring and annoying and all these other shitty dads in the audience are like, that's hilarious.
Guest:I identify.
Guest:And then their fame just swells.
Guest:Because now they're this relatable family funny man all of a sudden.
Guest:And they get an HBO special and a sitcom deal.
Guest:And then the mom is at home suffering with bloody nipples.
Guest:broken pussy, career over.
Guest:And so for me, I had a lot of anxiety about it being over once I had a kid.
Guest:And I was like, I'm not gonna let that happen.
Guest:And I don't want even being pregnant to slow me down.
Guest:So then I planned it that way because I was like, I need to know for myself that this is not the end.
Guest:Like having a kid is not the end that this is that.
Guest:And I want to associate my baby girl and my pregnancy and having a kid with the beginning.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Something.
Marc:And like it was funny because, you know, my girlfriend is like, you know, Berkeley art school kind of like painter, feminist, like, you know, you know, kind of full on.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's great.
Marc:So she loves you.
Marc:But we're watching it, and you're doing your riff on the housewife stuff.
Marc:And I know in my mind that this is really more feminist than anything anyone's going to do who's some sort of self-declared feminist.
Marc:I know what you're doing.
Marc:Because it's like a Trojan horse.
Marc:You sort of set up this idea, this conceit about wanting to be a housewife.
Marc:And then you just blow it up from the inside by being honest about your own sort of crass and exciting behavior.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, like I joke that I think feminism is the worst thing that ever happened to women.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But surely people must understand that I'm joking and that what is more empowering than performing seven months pregnant?
Marc:No, no.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:That's why the contradictions and the levels it works at.
Marc:That's why it has a whole piece of stand-up and that there actually is sort of an arc to it.
Marc:It's not a one-person show, but there are callbacks and then there was this revelation at the end that just sort of is completely...
Marc:Kind of I don't know what it kind of rewrites the whole special in that moment.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But like it just works on so many levels.
Marc:The shamelessness about being pregnant, the you know, the conversations that you're having as a pregnant person and then sort of like just talking about pregnancy as just another bit.
Marc:And then like all that stuff about Housewives, because, you know, what you envied about them.
Marc:was so fucking kind of disgusting and beautiful that it works on both levels.
Marc:There's something really feminist about it, but there's also something liberating to people that may be living that life.
Marc:And I think it's empowering for both types of women.
Guest:Yeah, and I don't, you know, like I hang out with a bunch of house moms now because I live in Culver City.
Guest:There's this park where all the house moms get there.
Guest:And I talk to them.
Guest:Some of them are so fucking funny, dude.
Guest:And they're so raw about their bodies.
Guest:They're going through some shit every day.
Guest:They're in the trenches.
Guest:Hilarious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also, like, so happy to be housewives.
Guest:And I don't judge them at all, you know.
Guest:And I think, like, if that, like, they're living it.
Guest:They're living the dream, if that's what they, you know, that's what they want to do.
Marc:The one thing that's important, I think, that you're saying is that...
Marc:So it's when women become mothers, especially early on, you know, they lose a good portion of their identity.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And so what, you know, what I hear you saying is that like these were all probably like pretty, you know, a lot of them might have been really radical chicks.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then they sort of this shift of identity doesn't mean that that personality is gone.
Marc:They just might not know where to engage it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, some of them engage it with their kids.
Guest:I knew a mom who just was like, I think she was probably pretty radical before.
Guest:I just knew her as a mom.
Guest:She didn't believe in having her kids do homework.
Guest:Cloth diapers.
Guest:Those women are hardcore who do the cloth diapers.
Guest:I'm like, Jesus.
Guest:And then she's still rocking all the armpit hair, everything.
Guest:And it's like...
Guest:She's just engaging with her kid, going to war with teachers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Who are... They're like, why the fuck is your kid not doing homework and you're like encouraging it?
Guest:You know?
Guest:And I'm like, that's awesome.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know?
Guest:But you gotta be really... Like, it's just so weird to me when people have these overarching statements about what it's like to have kids because it's so different.
Guest:It's like, do we make any overarching statements about what it's like to have parents?
Guest:Every parent is different and every kid is different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:You know, like breastfeeding, which, what time is it now?
Guest:Because I might have to pump soon.
Marc:10 after 12.
Guest:I have to pump, Jesus.
Guest:I'm long overdue.
Guest:So, you don't mind watching this?
Guest:No.
Guest:It'll be very interesting for you.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So, basically, with like breastfeeding, super sensitive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Too, because some women don't have time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they want to go back to work.
Guest:Or maybe they don't have enough milk in their breasts to breastfeed.
Guest:But like on the west side of Los Angeles, there are these crazy lactivists that make you feel like your daughter's going to turn into a prostitute if you don't breastfeed, you know?
Marc:Lactivists?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's like a thing.
Guest:And I'm like, I, you know, I, I breastfeed, but it's hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, you'll see now I have to, you know, do this whole thing in front of you.
Guest:Do you, um, see, this is leaning in breastfeeding in an interview with Mark Maron.
Guest:Jesus.
Marc:But do you have an electric thing, or is this just what the pump is?
Guest:There is an electric thing, and I have a hand pump for when I'm in the car and I'm driving, and I just got a release, too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Pump and drive, can't you pull over?
Marc:They actually make it for driving, or you just use it that way?
Guest:Well, I got to go some places sometimes, and I can't be late, you know?
Guest:So it's like, I got to just do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah.
Marc:So, the...
Guest:Do you want me to walk you through this?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah, you don't have to try to talk about something else.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I have to wear this bra.
Guest:Right.
Guest:See, that has holes in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For these little funnel cups to go through.
Marc:Okay, yeah.
Guest:And so.
Marc:My mom didn't breastfeed.
Marc:It was not fashionable.
Guest:My mom didn't either.
Guest:Yeah, it was like.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, then I have to take this off here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Take the regular bra.
Guest:Take the regular bra.
Guest:But that's a nursing bra because it's like pull, pull.
Guest:So then I can just have easy access to the baby.
Guest:Oh, I get it.
Guest:I get it.
Marc:So you switch them out.
Guest:Switch them out.
Guest:I have to wear these pads in here.
Marc:So you don't leak?
Guest:So that I don't leak all over in public.
Guest:Then I have to put on this bra.
Guest:This is what women have to do at work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When they go back to work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Up to sometimes like two years.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just every three hours.
Guest:And then a lot of women freak out about their milk production going down.
Marc:How long do you do the breastfeeding?
Guest:I'm gonna just do it as long as I feel like doing it.
Guest:I've been doing it for five months now.
Guest:But I'm trying to, if I feel like giving her formula and I feel like not doing it anymore because it's too much, then I'll just switch.
Marc:So you rig up one of those pumps to both boobs?
Guest:Yeah, so this is both boobs.
Guest:You get them at the same time.
Marc:So you do have the electric thing.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I have an electric thing, and I also have a hand pump, too.
Guest:But the electric is nice because they get it in hands-free.
Guest:Then I don't have to... Do you need to plug it in?
Guest:I think that one still has juice in it.
Marc:Oh, it's battery?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, you can't see it up close, but when it starts coming out.
Marc:I could stand up.
Guest:Yeah, but when you'll see, it's like when it comes out of my nipples, it's quite exciting.
Guest:It's like the Bellagio fountain.
Guest:Just different streams of liquid jumping up and over each other.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:See?
Guest:Can you hear it?
Guest:Yeah, you can hear it.
Guest:Oh, well, sorry, WTF listeners.
Guest:Yeah, how long do you pump for?
Guest:10 to 15 minutes.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's exciting.
Guest:Yeah, so there it is.
Guest:Just lift that off the table a minute.
Guest:Not that, the machine.
Guest:That's better.
Guest:Is that better?
Guest:Okay, yeah.
Guest:When's it going to happen?
Guest:It's happening.
Guest:It's coming down.
Guest:I think you just can't see it right now.
Guest:Wait, hold on.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Does it pick up speed?
Guest:Or is that it?
Guest:Yeah, it picks up speed.
Guest:It's called a letdown.
Guest:And I can feel it.
Guest:It'll tingle and then it'll gush out.
Guest:No way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you can't...
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I see how it's like coming more frequently now.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Isn't that crazy?
Guest:My body's a food factory.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I've never seen it before.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's dedication, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:When I, so I had a C-section.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And in the hospital I had to, like when I was breastfeeding, you know, I was like still recovering from my body being sliced open and
Guest:and then had her chewing on my nipples.
Guest:It was rough, dude.
Guest:And I didn't know how to do it correctly.
Guest:I was bleeding.
Marc:It's a big learning curve, I guess.
Guest:Big learning curve.
Guest:Raw dog.
Marc:You were bleeding?
Guest:Bleeding.
Guest:And she was like, poor baby girl was spitting up blood.
Marc:Why were you bleeding?
Guest:Because I was breastfeeding incorrectly.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I thought the baby's just supposed to suck on your nipple like a straw.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you have to get them to latch on at a very... It's a whole thing.
Guest:I never took a class.
Guest:I should have taken a class.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't read any parenting books.
Marc:No?
Guest:No.
Marc:And what's your husband do in all this?
Guest:My husband, I mean.
Marc:Was he supportive?
Marc:Were you like, I'm fucking, this is hard.
Marc:And he was like, we'll be all right.
Guest:Yeah, he was like, we'll be all right.
Guest:But they can't do anything.
Guest:I mean, it still blows my mind that a woman goes through all of this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So involved with her body.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And zero happens to a man's body.
Marc:You resentful?
Guest:Yeah, I'm a little bit resentful.
Guest:I mean, even now, you know, where it's like, the boob is powerful.
Guest:It's like the only thing that will soothe her if she's hungry or something, or if she's like fussy.
Guest:And I'm the only one who can do it.
Guest:And she doesn't need his body like she needs my body.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I didn't understand how involved breastfeeding was.
Guest:For nine months, I was her house.
Guest:And I couldn't drink and eat tuna fish and do all this stuff.
Guest:Or do shrooms or ayahuasca anymore.
Guest:And now that I'm breastfeeding, I'm her refrigerator.
Guest:And I still can't drink or do ayahuasca or any of this stuff anymore.
Guest:It's like your body is still so involved.
Marc:But are you getting joy out of it?
Guest:A lot of joy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, that part is really true.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's great.
Guest:And she makes me laugh hard.
Guest:Like when you become a comic that doesn't laugh out loud.
Guest:Yeah, I can't.
Guest:As much anymore.
Guest:Like she's the one of the, her and my husband are like, and my friends are the only who aren't in comedy are the only things that make me laugh hysterically.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:she's funny she's sweet and like you know all that when people are like don't you aren't you gonna miss doing all the stuff you're able to do i'm like yeah but i get to do other stuff now right you know we have a good attitude about it yeah i mean it helps too that all my best friends got pregnant at the same time
Guest:So we have a nice tribe, a nice little Kula going on.
Marc:Did you always knew that you were going to do that?
Marc:Was there ever a point in comedy before these other women comics or whoever was advising you not to have kids?
Marc:Were you always going to have kids?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I grew up in a big family.
Marc:So you think you're going to have more?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I want to have it.
Guest:Like I want to try to have three.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I grew up in a big family and also I grew up with old parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I always knew that they were, you know, when you grow up with like old parents, you kind of never feel protected and you're, you're always scared that they're going to die.
Guest:And, but thank God I had my, had my siblings.
Guest:And so when my dad passed away, I can't imagine going through that and still going through that without any one of my siblings.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't want my daughter to be alone.
Marc:Scared of that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I just want her to grow up with like how I did because it was so fun growing up with my siblings.
Marc:I had one.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:It was enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The three is about right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you know, then there's a little diversity.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Age separation.
Marc:So like what I noticed about the special is that you really can do a like almost like a companion special like within a year.
Guest:Yeah, I want to.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:About childbirth.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because like you were just speculating about it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And you were speculating about all this stuff and based on what you heard.
Marc:And it seems like the childbirth experience that you had was not as bad in the same way as you were describing in the special.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like you didn't have to go through prolonged labor or were you always planned a cesarean?
Marc:No.
Guest:I tried to go for vaginal and I was having contractions for 24 hours.
Guest:And then I was like, I give up.
Guest:oh really yeah and they were like keep going i was like hell to the nah cut that shit out cut it out like dave coulier said cut it out and then uh but this you know c-section's no joke it's real surgery and then the anesthesiologist missed on my back like 10 times because she was like your spine is twisted i was like your medical education must be twisted because you i see all these bloody tissues around me i was like sobbing she's like are you crying i was like yes i'm
Guest:crying because you're stabbing my back with this needle like 10 times and before and your dad was an anesthesiologist my dad was an anesthesiologist he would have nailed it he would have nailed it that's what my mom said too that was the first thing she said right she's like your dad would have
Guest:nailed it um but yeah and then like when my husband came in the room i had been sobbing my my whole body was shaking i don't know why i was freezing uncomfortable and i had like you know a shower cap on and like and it just felt and it was in like this cold room and i was like we're never having kids again and i was like this is it and then as soon as she came out and i saw her i was like let's do it again yeah
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's that powerful.
Guest:It's like, you know, I mean, I've done ayahuasca, but like a kid is like, it's powerful.
Marc:So you're saying it's better than ayahuasca?
Guest:Oh, way better.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Your priorities in the right place.
Marc:Well, let's go back around to that, to that.
Marc:Like, when did you do ayahuasca?
Marc:Like when, how did your husband get involved with that?
Marc:Cause you talk in this special a little bit about being a little bit, not hippie, but you know, kind of, I don't know what you'd call it now, but it's kind of hippie shit.
Guest:Yeah, it's like new age stuff.
Guest:But now everybody does ayahuasca.
Guest:I know, it seems to be popular.
Guest:He did it when like not everybody was doing it.
Guest:And we went to Mexico and I thought it was gonna be like all these.
Marc:I talked to one other person about this, Simon Amstel.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We went with all of these, I thought it was gonna be all of these like hippie white people with dreadlocks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:From like Portland and Seattle or something.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was all Mexican women dealing with like, you know, it's like personal stuff like divorce or, you know, their kids getting into trouble or relatives.
Guest:It was like, it was really, really interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was hard.
Guest:We did it two nights the first time.
Guest:And the first night I just threw up and it was scary and I had diarrhea because that's what happened.
Guest:They call it purging.
Guest:And then at the time I had this really bad, I had rosacea, I had really bad skin on my face and I didn't know why.
Guest:And then this shaman there told me that your skin is a reflection of your lack of self-esteem and your body is punishing you for thinking that you're ugly.
Guest:Yeah, it was really weird.
Guest:Did that fit?
Guest:Yeah, it did.
Guest:Because for some reason, I was in New York and I was eating pizza and getting fat and I had bad skin.
Guest:I was feeling really ugly.
Guest:And then I did it and I had this in my journey...
Guest:gosh i think i went on this journey where like so you do it three times before like you did it the first night you're supposed to do it three nights but we missed our flight and we didn't make it the first night right but the first so we only did it twice the first time and the first night was like bad and i didn't have a good experience the second night i went on this like beautiful journey where like i met myself yeah like like like a you know how you dream but you don't see like yourself you just see other people right
Guest:I literally met a double of myself, and we went on this romantic date, and we had fun, and we were fucking in a barn.
Guest:Literally, I ate- With yourself?
Guest:Yes, I ate my pussy.
Guest:You ate your own pussy?
Guest:Yes, and it was super fun, laughing hysterically.
Guest:And then I was like, I'm fun.
Guest:I'm beautiful.
Guest:I'm like, I want to eat my pussy.
Guest:And it was like-
Guest:a show don't tell thing you know like people can tell you like you're beautiful what are you talking about you're skinny and that you're skinny you're great you're like you're amazing but I experienced myself being fun and and it was great
Guest:It changed your life?
Guest:I mean, it changed, like, yeah, what I needed for that.
Guest:Your perception of yourself?
Guest:And then when my dad died, you know, I had, like, a really hard time with that, as people do when their parents die.
Guest:And, you know, I was able... Was it a surprise?
Marc:I mean, was he sick?
Guest:It was a surprise, yeah.
Guest:He was sick, but it was a surprise still.
Guest:And it was, like, really hard.
Guest:It was not, like, a beautiful thing, you know, the journey.
Guest:Like, I really, I felt... This is the second time you did it?
Guest:This was maybe the second or third time he hit it in a different location, like in Santa Cruz.
Guest:And I felt, I felt him suffering.
Guest:And I was like, you know, made a little bit more peace with him passing because I felt like, I felt it and I, and I threw up and it was, it was really hard.
Guest:But, um,
Marc:So it forced you into like a sort of fragile state of deep empathy for his suffering.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it was able to temper the grief a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Your loss, you know, you were able to frame it differently in knowing that, you know, it was time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I felt suffering like from my mom too.
Guest:Like, and I felt like I was like lying down in the, what do you call it?
Guest:The yurt.
Guest:The yurt.
Guest:You're in the yurt.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I was lying down in the yurt because I couldn't sit up anymore because I could just feel all this pressure on my shoulders.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like suffering.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, oh, this is like a fraction of what my dad felt because he was sick.
Guest:What did he have?
Guest:He had cancer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he couldn't deal with it anymore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then for my mom as the caretaker, it was tough.
Marc:Did he take his own life?
Yeah.
Guest:He was depressed.
Guest:I mean, he was like, he was sick.
Guest:He had cancer and he was depressed.
Guest:Terminal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he had cancer and he was sick.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I mean, I think that was, that's probably still like the worst thing that's ever happened to me is my dad passing.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:In the ayahuasca thing that,
Marc:How do you manage your emotions?
Marc:Is there a guide there?
Marc:Was there a point where you thought you'd get lost, or is it like a trip?
Guest:There is a shaman to guide the whole thing, but the whole point is you're supposed to go through it yourself.
Guest:and you don't want people rubbing your back.
Guest:You don't want people talking to you and touching you.
Guest:Whatever's happening to you, even if you're screaming and seeing demons or whatever, there's a reason why you're supposed to go through it.
Marc:And did you talk about this stuff with your husband after and shit?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:He doesn't always like to talk about what happened and he's a little bit more private about it because I think then maybe it sort of colors what the journey actually was when you put it in a frame.
Guest:But I don't mind.
Marc:So you see this as a practical therapeutic thing to do a couple times a year.
Guest:Yeah, like I said, it's like a show don't tell thing, because people can tell you, your dad was sick, he was suffering, and he led a good life, but I saw all of that, and people told me that, and I couldn't hear it.
Guest:But once I saw all of that, I was able to deal with it a little bit better.
Guest:Now, I had a miscarriage, and I don't think about it that much now.
Guest:You talk about it in the special.
Guest:I do talk about it in the special.
Marc:And that's another thing that you sort of, like, unpacked in terms of, like, there's a lot of things in the special that, you know, from the mundane to, you know, the sort of intense that, you know, are shame triggers for a lot of women.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And you just fucking unload them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wish women would be, didn't have to feel so ashamed about it because, you know, a lot of, the wrong question.
Guest:It's a great joke, though.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:The wrong question to ask a woman who's had a miscarriage is, why?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, what kind of question is that?
Guest:And some people even said to me, oh, is it because you were too active and performing a lot?
Guest:They want to shame you.
Marc:It's literally that shaming.
Guest:Yeah, or they just want to find a reason why.
Guest:And it's like with miscarriages, it's so common.
Guest:And if women knew how common it was, they wouldn't blame themselves so much and be so secretive about it.
Guest:But I...
Guest:And unfortunately, you know, I talked about it even, and people felt uncomfortable with it because I think people usually only talk about the fact they had a miscarriage after they have like a full term pregnancy.
Guest:But I had told people early on that I was pregnant like week four, which you're not supposed to do.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And then I was like, I don't understand why people keep it a secret.
Guest:And then I was like, oh.
Guest:this is why now i understand my people's secret because you don't want to deal with people asking you why yeah you know okay now we're ending the pumping you see oh yeah how do you know it's done they didn't fill up all the way it's 15 minutes oh no i mean she doesn't need it to fill up all the way some women have it fill up all the way yeah that's a lot yeah this is like i mean this is how much she needs like in a feeding
Marc:And do you have to eat certain things to make milk production or any of that?
Guest:Oatmeal's good.
Guest:Really?
Guest:There's a tea called mother's milk that's good.
Guest:Yeah, fenugreek.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's the Indian spice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you were now with the C-section, because you talk a lot about the ripping of the vagina.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:You were able to avoid that?
Guest:Yeah, that's all intact.
Guest:But, you know, I mean, who cares?
Guest:It's not put to much use these days.
Guest:So it's like, you know, I mean, when you have a, see, then I got to dab it afterwards.
Guest:Right.
Guest:After...
Guest:you know like i thought i was gonna die when the anesthesiologist kept missing on my back yeah because it's a spinal tap right yeah i thought i was gonna die or become like paralyzed from her messing up my spine and at that point i was like i do not care just i just want to get the baby out safely first like the mama instinct kicked in real quick yeah like i don't care if i die yeah but just please get her out safely yeah
Guest:And so, yeah, I mean, but it's just crazy how your body, like I had, I mean, I had some friends too who like, they labored for like 72 hours and then they still had to have a C-section.
Guest:Their pussies straight up look like, they showed me afterwards straight up look like two hanging dicks side by side.
Guest:Hardcore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In the process of giving birth to a baby girl, they became a dude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Two dudes.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, I mean, it's just crazy what happens to women's bodies.
Guest:These moms now who I meet are like the funniest, most raw women I've ever met that, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Talking about their hemorrhoids and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they're not talking about like, they're not hacky talking about hemorrhoids.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because we've heard the hacky hemorrhoid mom jokes at the park.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Really funny.
Marc:You judge, you know, you're like, eh, I heard that one.
Guest:That one, yeah.
Marc:You got to get a new angle on that.
Marc:So tell me how long you've been writing television professionally.
Marc:Like you're on Fresh Off the Boat?
Guest:Yes, that's been happening for two years.
Guest:I'm really good friends with...
Guest:the lead actor, Randall Park.
Guest:I know him from, we did comedy, like sketch comedy stuff together.
Guest:And he was like, why don't you come in and write for the show?
Marc:How is it?
Marc:You're in the room?
Marc:How many people in the room?
Guest:13.
Marc:Big.
Guest:big but then you know once the season starts going and we lose the showrunner yeah it's a lot because there's always people on set yeah people you know having to be off on script so you really need and you have to split the room into two to try to break two stories at once so you're working with Jake Kasdan yes yeah I don't see him that often yeah yeah and uh Lynn Shelton directed a bit yes she's great she's great yeah I love her she directed a couple of mine
Guest:Yeah, she's so awesome.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And the writing, like, well, Sarah, who watches the show occasionally, my girlfriend, said that the mother character sounds a lot like you.
Guest:Oh, that's funny.
Guest:There's like, you know, I mean...
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I write, I do, I, you know, I write on the show and there's like, there's definitely, I would hope part of me that people can see in the show.
Guest:It's been great.
Guest:Like I didn't ever set out to be a TV writer.
Guest:Have you ever done it?
Marc:Just for my show.
Guest:just for your show.
Guest:With TV writing too, I think as a standup comic, you gotta watch out because it can be, it's comfortable.
Guest:And it can be a trap.
Guest:And I was talking to Tom Papa about it because I think
Guest:some comics, they get into TV writing.
Guest:And that might not be the thing that they set out to do.
Guest:But then they fall into it and it gets comfortable and they get into it before they find their own voice.
Guest:And then it's like, you're stuck there.
Guest:And then when you're like 40, sometimes in TV writing, they don't want you anymore because you're too old.
Guest:And then they try to come back to stand up and it's too hard.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't get the sense... I haven't gotten the sense too many times that they're coming back to stand-up to actually start making money as a stand-up.
Marc:Because I always framed it like... Not everyone's cut out to fucking live the life of a comic.
Marc:And when young people ask me about comedy, I'm like, well, if you can write jokes and you want to do comedy, just realize that the jobs that are available to you are... If you can't cut it as a stand-up... I mean, I don't...
Marc:necessarily wish that on anybody it takes a unique person right to find their voice yeah and some dudes a lot of the dudes that I started out with they you know they they did comedy they did stand-up but they practically like normal human beings realize I ain't gonna be one of the 10 guys that makes money at this right
Marc:This is going to be a long, hard life, but I have this talent.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So I'm going to go into writing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So I try to frame it that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I mean, I imagine a lot of them have regret or whatever, but who the hell knows if they'd ever find their voice or actually make a living as a comic that could support a family and get their insurance and everything.
Marc:I just think that...
Marc:You know, it's always been that way.
Marc:You know, these guys that do comedy, okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, and maybe even remember them.
Marc:But, you know, they go make the big fucking dollars.
Marc:You know, writing for shows, becoming showrunners, becoming producers.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's a whole other trajectory.
Marc:I don't begrudge them.
Marc:Like, I don't judge them negatively at all.
Guest:No, I don't either.
Guest:And I think, like, if they enjoy doing it, that's what they wanted to do.
Guest:But I, for me personally, like, I don't want to...
Guest:like, get into it and then lose, like, my stand-up thing.
Guest:Well, you're the real deal.
Marc:Like, you're not, you know, you're a rare, you know, there's very few people that respect stand-up for stand-up really anymore.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it's a sad thing.
Marc:And I think that the army of amateurs that, you know, can get stage time in their little corner, you know, sometimes for years have sort of diminished what it means to really call yourself a stand-up comic.
Marc:Right.
Marc:There's not that many of them.
Guest:yeah and you know and you seem to have that in perspective and you know i i hear some of it as self-talk you know like you know i'm not gonna fucking you know i'm not fucking stop like you're actually telling yourself as you're telling me i hope so but like something's got to give right because like if i'm working during the day at a writing job till like 6 p.m sometimes like 8 p.m then it's like and i'm doing run to the store or
Guest:when am I going to see my kid?
Guest:You know, like something's got to give at some point.
Guest:And then, and then like, I have to, you know, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I have to get back into that like uncomfortable, like pure standup zone again too.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But it comes back pretty quick and you know, and you're, you know, it doesn't seem like, you know, you're at risk of having complete peace of mind anytime soon.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Let's hope not.
Marc:But like, I think also that there's a gratitude available to you in that, you know, it's nice to have the job and to have, you know, some security and have the insurance.
Marc:And like you said, like, you know, you don't need to go do B rooms for nobody for a living.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Which is a gift.
Marc:And, you know, you're still compulsive about doing the work and you're going out and doing the work.
Marc:And this special is fucking great.
Marc:And, you know, hopefully you'll get a little draw or you find an angle, you know, where people want to come see you and recognize you that way.
Marc:So then when you go out on the road, it can be sort of a special one night thing, not a three night thing.
Marc:And you know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, I hope so.
Marc:I want that for you.
Marc:I think you deserve it, man.
Marc:I really, I mean, I'm not blowing smoke up your ass.
Marc:I don't really do that.
Marc:I've always admired your guts and your fucking style and, you know, the writing is fucking great and, you know, no one really is doing what you do.
Guest:Oh, thank you.
Marc:As, as a comic, like you take, you know, you really push it, you know, in a, in a great way, you know, it's smart, it's dirty, it, it means something.
Marc:And, and, uh, you know, I loved it and I love talking to you.
Guest:Thanks so much.
Marc:What do we got to do with that milk now?
Guest:Oh, I just put it in the little thing we put in the freezer.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:You want some ice cream?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I think that'd be great.
Marc:Great.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:I saw a new thing.
Marc:I experienced a new thing.
Marc:I don't have children.
Marc:I don't have a wife.
Marc:So the pumping was sort of a big deal for me.
Marc:And I'm glad you guys were all there with me for that experience.
Marc:She's a fucking stud, man.
Marc:Ali Wong's special Baby Cobra premieres on Netflix tomorrow, Friday, May 6th.
Marc:All right, go to WTFPod.com for all that stuff.
Marc:Watch my show, Maren, on IFC on Wednesdays at 9.
Marc:If you miss them, you can go to IFC.com, Amazon, or iTunes.
Marc:All right?
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Whew.
Marc:Man, I should rest my voice, right?
Marc:I should play some guitar or something.
Guest:Thank you.
do do
Marc:Boomer lives!