Episode 702 - Rob Reiner
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:Thank you for being here.
Marc:I love you guys.
Marc:I'm going to start expressing my love more.
Marc:By the way, my guest today is the hilarious Rob Reiner, who you have to love Rob Reiner.
Marc:He's made some of the best movies.
Marc:Princess Bride, Stand By Me, Spinal Tap, a few good men, pretty fucking good.
Marc:He was all in the family, but he's a great guy who I was very excited to talk to, who I'd never met before.
Marc:who I met for the first time the day before he was supposed to come over here at the Gary Shanling Memorial that I told you I was going to.
Marc:What an amazing, beautiful event that was.
Marc:The place was just...
Marc:filled with people that knew gary and you know i told you guys i didn't know gary that well the experience i had with him was really limited to parking his car once at the comedy store when i was 22 and having the interview i had in here with him that judd apatow helped facilitate because you know judd and i have become pretty close and judd put together i might drop a few names talking about
Marc:This beautiful event.
Marc:It's not really my nature, but it's sort of important to put it into context.
Marc:Judd put together this amazing event with film footage from Gary's childhood and footage from his television career, you know, bits and pieces of things.
Marc:And he had, he sort of was the host of the event.
Marc:And he had, there was music and there was, you know, people...
Marc:And recollecting and reflecting on Gary, one of his Buddhist monk friends from the monastery and community that he helped support and fund, spoke in the love, man, the love.
Marc:Like, I guess what I'm saying is I didn't really know Gary, but after spending two and a half hours with these people speaking about him who loved him and talking about his life and his journey,
Marc:to be open and to be in the present and to be his authentic self, it really changed my life a little bit.
Marc:It was weird.
Marc:I felt like when I left the service, it's a somber event, but it was right from the get-go a celebration of Gary Shandling's life, and it was just stunning.
Marc:I mean, should I walk you through it?
Marc:feel like I should because it was really beautiful you walk into this big theater and Jeff Goldblum is just sitting on stage playing jazz piano you know as people walk in and and they're showing slides and pictures of Gary and then the lights go down and Ryan Adams
Marc:Johnny Depp, Don was, and I don't know who the piano player was.
Marc:They take the stage and do a song.
Marc:I think it was maybe a Ryan Adams song.
Marc:I think it was called Wrecking Ball or something along those lines.
Marc:And they play that and they walk off.
Marc:And then Judd comes up and opens the show with an emotional...
Marc:sort of, um, reflection on Gary, but it was funny.
Marc:These are funny people.
Marc:So there was some, always some humor, uh, running through it.
Marc:And, and it was just, you know, one after the other people that work with Gary, um, some people, you know, some, some of his close friends, um,
Marc:Oh, yeah, they did a sketch at the very beginning where Hank or Jeffrey Tambor and Penny Johnson-Gerald, who played Beverly, did a little bit.
Marc:That was very funny.
Marc:They did that in character.
Marc:And then, yeah, Judd comes up.
Marc:And it was just...
Marc:So many different people and so many different video montages.
Marc:It was just stunning.
Marc:And there was music.
Marc:You know, Eve from the Eels went up and played a song called Motherfucker, I believe might have been the name of the song.
Marc:Adam Sandler closed it out by doing My Sweet Lord, the George Harrison song, with John Bryan and Don Was again.
Marc:And it was just astounding.
Marc:and really moving and made me want to live a better life.
Marc:And I guess that's the best you can ask from a reflection of someone else's life.
Marc:It was just great.
Marc:Now, if I can get to the other part, it was very hard for me because it was a somber event, but we knew we were there to celebrate Gary and these were show business people and funny people.
Marc:So there's a lot of people there and I'm kind of a fucking fan boy.
Marc:I don't know if you know this about me.
Marc:Perhaps if you listen to this show, you certainly know that
Marc:that I do tend to do that.
Marc:But I'm overwhelmed, and I love actors and comedians and musicians.
Marc:I just love them.
Marc:It's amazing.
Marc:It's very hard for me, even now, after talking to so many of them and being in their presence and realizing they're just people, they're still sort of mythic to me.
Marc:And I know right away that they're just people, but there's some part of me that's still like, yeah, like...
Marc:Judd kind of told me to sit right up front.
Marc:So I sat right up front with my buddy, Jerry Stahl.
Marc:It was next to Mark Everett from the Eels.
Marc:And then right over from Jerry, like two seats down, Tom Petty sits down.
Marc:It's like, he was cool.
Marc:I introduced myself.
Marc:And even though he seemed like a sweet guy, just a regular person, but it's fucking Tom Petty.
Marc:I'm at a memorial service, but I'm inside.
Marc:I'm like, Tom Petty's right there.
Marc:Tom Petty's right fucking there.
Marc:Oh, this is sad.
Marc:Tom Petty's right there.
Marc:All right, they're starting.
Marc:So, you know, there was that element happening for me because I don't go to these things and I don't ever really... I don't really feel like I'm in show business most of the time, you know, because I work here in the garage and I do my show, but I don't think anyone watches it.
Marc:Premieres on IFC May 4th, by the way, new season of Marin.
Marc:But it was really...
Marc:incredible the emotions that were there but also like I met some people and I don't know if it's wrong of me to talk about it because I wasn't there to meet people but right behind me Annette Bening and Warren Beatty were sitting and you know I just turned around and I didn't know they were there and I'm looking right at Warren Beatty and I choked I was like hi how are you by Mark Maron hi
Marc:Warren, right?
Marc:Of course.
Marc:And I couldn't even look at him.
Marc:I couldn't even hold eye contact.
Marc:And then Annette Bening, this was really the outside of the emotions that were going on with the memorial.
Marc:This was before, you know, Annette Bening said she liked this show and that her daughter loved the show and gets a lot out of the show.
Marc:So this is what I'm telling you.
Marc:For years, I thought like, you know, my father, I talked about my father at his father's funeral and he was a little too chipper, you know, for a funeral.
Marc:But I realized like, you know, when you don't see all these people, you don't know all these people and you're around certain people and you're excited.
Marc:It's a weird combination of feelings.
Marc:You know, I was like, I was so excited to see all these people that I have such respect for.
Marc:and that I'm fans of, that it was sort of counterintuitive to what was supposed to be a somber event, but turned out to be a beautifully deep and hilarious and well-balanced and enlightening night.
Marc:And it was all very sweet because it really was a celebration.
Marc:It was a horrible celebration.
Marc:thing that happened but you know in the wake of it literally you have this amazing celebration of someone's life with real emotions and Kevin Nealon was just astounding he went up there and he did you know a piece of that he had written that was obviously hilarious but he had somehow built the piece
Marc:To sort of handle his emotions because they were very close and he got very emotional.
Marc:But the comedy that he was doing, the piece that he was doing, the stories he was telling, the jokes he was doing was what they sort of built as his emotions built.
Marc:And it seemed as if that he intertwined them intentionally so he could have the feelings that he was having yet still be funny.
Marc:It was it was something.
Marc:like I'd never seen before.
Marc:It was so impressive and beautiful.
Marc:And Adam Sandler, who, you know, I don't think he knows me really or likes me necessarily, but he did such a sweet, beautiful job on the George Harrison song, singing it earnestly.
Marc:Anyways, it was really a beautiful thing.
Marc:And I'm so glad I went.
Marc:And Gary Schelling's going to be missed.
Marc:But I'll tell you, I learned some lessons just from
Marc:listening to people talk about him and his life.
Marc:Just, it was beautiful.
Marc:It was beautiful.
Marc:And I'm thinking out loud here, people.
Marc:I'm just thinking out loud.
Marc:Like a lot of you have been with me through a lot of stuff over the last six or seven years.
Marc:And this is sort of the next phase.
Marc:You know, how do I engage my feelings in my life?
Marc:I got this beautiful email from a guy after the monologue about empathy and love and grief and whatnot.
Marc:This just came in.
Marc:Subject line, your show helped me today from Chad.
Marc:He said, hey, Mark, I've been listening for a while.
Marc:And this is I'd be I'd be honest with you.
Marc:These these kind of emails.
Marc:I had no idea that my life would, would be so rich as to, to have this effect on people's lives and, and the gratitude and humility that I am able to experience from the feedback.
Marc:It's, it's just like, it's so great.
Marc:It's better than anything.
Marc:It's better than money.
Marc:It's better than, than, than, you know, being known any of that shit to, to sort of like, you know, to reach out and connect.
Marc:Hey, Mark, uh,
Marc:I've been listening for a while.
Marc:I love your show.
Marc:You're amazing at it, and I'm always entertained by it, and I usually get something from each episode.
Marc:Today, though, today was different.
Marc:My dog Teddy has been battling cancer for almost a year.
Marc:He lost a leg to it.
Marc:He almost died in surgery, and he's had to wear a cone and deal with the pain this whole time.
Marc:And you know what?
Marc:He's been awesome through it all.
Marc:No whining.
Marc:He bounces back every time he needs something done, and he hasn't let it dampen his spirits.
Marc:He's a special little guy, and he touches people.
Marc:The vets all love him.
Marc:People on the street stop and pet him and give him belly rubs.
Marc:People across the street come to see Teddy.
Marc:And after that, more often than not, they tell us how amazing he is and how lucky we are to have him.
Marc:But my girlfriend and I found out yesterday that the cancer is spreading and it's not treatable.
Marc:He's fought hard, but it's too much for him.
Marc:And that breaks my heart.
Marc:i don't know how i'm going to deal with it when the time comes today the day after i found out the horrible news i listened to your steve o episode 701 number 701 and the intro hit me it hit me hard because of you and what you said i'm feeling this grief i'm feeling all of it and it's a terrible feeling to feel i usually shut out my emotions i'm the man's man that doesn't cry but i'm bawling today off and on
Marc:I don't care anymore.
Marc:And listening to your show made me okay with it.
Marc:I'm going to cry now when I need to and I'm going to feel all of this and love him in the time he has instead of distancing to make it hurt less.
Marc:Your show did that.
Marc:Your show did this to me.
Marc:It allowed me to open up and be emotional in a way I haven't in at least 30 years.
Marc:After your intro, I stopped and went to the restroom at work and I cried for about 10 minutes.
Marc:But you know what?
Marc:When I came back and started the interview, I laughed.
Marc:And I haven't laughed in a little while, but I did today.
Marc:Your podcast helps.
Marc:It helped me a lot.
Marc:It's opened me up emotionally.
Marc:It's pointed out flaws I didn't know I had.
Marc:Your intros have made me a better person, and your interviews have opened me up to other points of view and to the interconnectedness and shared experience of life.
Marc:I wanted you to know the difference it made and to say thank you, Mark.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Chad.
Marc:P.S.
Marc:I'm going to include a picture of Teddy just so you can see.
Marc:This is our special little guy, and there's a picture of this sweet, sweet dog.
Marc:And I'm sorry you're going through that, Chad, and thank you for the email.
Marc:See, this is what I'm learning and also was sort of an undercurrent of a lot of what people were saying about channeling and about what's important in life.
Marc:I'm starting to feel that.
Marc:Now that I'm not spinning out all the time,
Marc:In fear, I'm starting to realize, and I think you guys realized it ahead of me, that this is what life is, is having these kind of connections, sharing this kind of stuff with people and having an impact on each other's lives through the human experience, not through distancing ourselves from it.
Marc:trying to get past the panic and desperation and entitlement and self-centeredness and that kind of stuff now this isn't going to turn into some spiritual show did i mention i was sitting like almost right next to tom petty did i mention that and i talked to annette benning dimension did i mention that she likes the show it's it's still about that too
Marc:And it's still about funny, right?
Marc:Right, most days, right?
Marc:All right, so I watched Rob Reiner's new film that his son co-wrote about his son's experience, based on his son's experience with addiction and rehab and some of Rob's experience as well.
Marc:And we kind of talked about that bit a bit.
Marc:That movie's called Being Charlie.
Marc:It comes out on May 6th.
Marc:As I said, it was co-written by his son, Nick Reiner.
Marc:And this is me and Rob Reiner.
Marc:I had a lovely time talking to him.
Marc:I got a real kick out of him.
Marc:How long were you in Albuquerque?
Marc:I was there from third grade through high school, and my father's still there.
Guest:So you get down there a lot?
Marc:Not much.
Marc:I wish I got along better with him, and I felt compelled to go.
Guest:Then you'd want to go.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It was like the thing we saw when we were at the Gary Shandling Memorial with his mother.
Marc:I thought that was an amazing thing.
Marc:It was hard for me.
Marc:I think on some level, I felt a little embarrassed because I don't know if I act appropriately because I don't go to those things.
Marc:Not that there's many of them necessarily, but.
Marc:But they're going to be more and more.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Mark, as we go along.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But I get so excited to see everybody and I'm always amazed when people know me because I'm like, you know, I'm this outlier.
Marc:And so I see you talking to Billy Crystal and I'm like, oh my God, it's Rob Reiner and Billy Crystal.
Marc:And Billy Crystal, I'm acting like it's a wake, but I'm like, oh, this is terrific.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, that's what's terrible, too, is people that you know and you hang out with and stuff, and then you see them in those circumstances, you know?
Marc:And as you get older, you don't see people as much anymore.
Guest:No, that's true.
Guest:And why do you think that is?
Guest:Time and... I think it has to do, I really believe, you know, that whole thing they say where you're born alone, you die alone, that bit.
Guest:Well, I think what happens as you get older, you start thinking about...
Guest:uh you know that yeah and also that you don't want to spend any time with anybody that's going to annoy you or make it uncomfortable and as you get old you really realize that there are more and more people that annoy you so you limit your your world keeps narrowing and getting narrower this happens at a subconscious level or a conscious well i think it's unconscious i don't think it's i don't think you're consciously saying
Guest:I think I'm going to narrow my world now.
Guest:No, you think, you know, I don't really like that person that much.
Guest:So why should I stay?
Guest:You know, it's like when you're young, you'd never leave a movie theater until the movie's over.
Guest:Now you go, oh.
Guest:I don't really like why do I have to watch the last hour of this piece of crap you know because I have such a limited time on the planet but then but also you get up earlier when you get older that's killing me that's true what the fuck is that I think it's God saying this you're running out of time yeah you better take a couple more hours today yeah but then you it takes longer to pee so so you maybe that's why you have to get up earlier because you got to factor in all the time it takes to pee I pee I get up all night and pee I don't know you don't do that
Guest:I do.
Guest:I think I get up two times a night, and then I can't go back to sleep.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But the annoying thing, though, but I don't know.
Marc:We're all kind of annoying.
Marc:I mean, if you really think of your friends, I mean, who are they?
Marc:And I guess there's just who you can tolerate.
Marc:And also I think you have family stuff, you have work stuff, and now with phones and computers, it's like all the time is eaten up, unnecessarily eaten up.
Guest:And you trick yourself into believing that you're actually either working or communicating with people.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I'm texting, I'm emailing, I'm doing.
Guest:You're not talking to anybody.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You're talking to a computer.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And actually talking to people is like it's exhausting.
Guest:Like we're doing now.
Marc:It becomes exhausting.
Marc:It is exhausting.
Marc:If you could text somebody, it's like, oh, boy, what a thrill.
Guest:I'm so happy to not have to talk to him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I look at the Gary Shandling thing last night, and I'm thinking, look at all the friends he had and all the people who he was close to.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And I'm saying, is that true?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Is that true?
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:I only met him once when I talked to him in here, and I was always a fan, and I'm friends with Apatow.
Marc:So I don't know, but I was sort of amazed.
Marc:He sounded like he was a Buddha.
Marc:He sounds like he wasn't doing the work that everyone gets hung up on, but instead he was just sitting around talking to people about what they were working on.
Guest:Yeah, and he's helping Sarah Silverman.
Guest:Everybody.
Guest:And he's helping Apatow.
Marc:It seems like that basketball game was the foundation of modern show business.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:My wife kept saying...
Guest:How come we don't have anything like that?
Guest:You just like to sit in your room.
Guest:You don't do anything.
Guest:Why can't we have people come?
Guest:I said, because I don't like any of these people.
Marc:I don't want to speak out of school or anything, but I had Gary Marshall in here the other day.
Guest:Yeah, Gary.
Guest:Yeah, he's a great guy.
Marc:And there's a couple of people have said that you had the best parties.
Marc:We did.
Guest:At your house when you were married to Penny.
Guest:Yes, it's true.
Guest:When I was married to Penny, it was like a fraternity house.
Guest:I mean, we had, you know, it was Albert Brooks and Louise Lasser and Jim Brooks and John Belushi.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:everybody in chevy and everybody came to the house so you did that yeah i did it but that's when you're young right here's the thing yeah you look at this show like friends right friends the show friends it's so funny and and and you've got all these people yeah they're they're in their i guess their 20s or something right and they're hanging out with each other
Guest:And I guess that's what you do.
Guest:You go in packs.
Guest:But when you get into your 30s, your 40s, your 50s, you don't do that anymore.
Guest:You got kids.
Guest:You got kids.
Guest:You hang out with them.
Guest:And then when you get older, you don't have that.
Guest:Hey, let's go and hang out at the coffee shop.
Guest:They don't do it.
Marc:Maybe you get one guy.
Marc:Yeah, one guy.
Marc:I mean, I talked to your father.
Marc:I was at the house you grew up in, I think.
Guest:yeah i went over there that's why i think that's why jerry has uh comedians in cars yeah going for coffee right because the fact of the matter is if he didn't have that show he wouldn't be with anybody yeah i don't you know this is his opportunity i know to get out of the house and hang out with that's right or do and that's why i think he goes on the road to get out of the house yeah i mean it's not like he needs money no he doesn't he just likes to do yeah i never understand that you know you see these guys that have a billion dollars it's like what what
Marc:Why are you doing anything?
Marc:Yeah, because they like to do it.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Or if they don't do it, they're just sitting around going, when am I going to die?
Marc:When does this happen?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I went to your father's house, and he says he hangs out with Mel every night.
Marc:Mel.
Guest:Mel and my dad, every single night.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Every night?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, virtually every night.
Guest:That's really something.
Guest:Listen, it's wonderful that they have each other.
Guest:They met each other when they were in their 20s doing the show of shows.
Guest:And to have that kind of bond and that bond to stick and they make each other laugh, they enjoy each other's company.
Guest:They both lost their spouses recently, so they have that.
Guest:And they'd say that they watch any movie that has secure the perimeter in it.
Guest:They watch it.
Marc:Do you go over there?
Guest:Yeah, I've been over there.
Guest:I was over there one time when they got into a huge fight over... It was an appearance that Mel did on the Carson show.
Guest:And they were arguing about... It was like the Sunshine Boys movie.
Guest:They're arguing about which line got the biggest laugh.
Guest:And Mel was a guy who played an expert on wine.
Guest:He could detect any wine.
Guest:And they blindfolded him.
Guest:They gave him a glass of wine.
Guest:He tasted it.
Guest:He went, I think it's a red.
Guest:It's a Cabernet.
Guest:It's 1970.
Guest:And Carson says, no, no, that's not.
Guest:It's not.
Guest:He says, okay, wait a minute.
Guest:Let me try.
Guest:He takes another sip.
Guest:Yes, it's a red.
Guest:It's a Bordeaux.
Guest:It's a 1980.
Guest:No, it's not that.
Guest:He says, all right, let me taste it in.
Guest:Okay, I got it.
Guest:It's a white.
Guest:And that was a big laugh.
Guest:And then Mel says, that's the line that got the big laugh.
Guest:And I said, no.
Guest:My dad says, no, it was the line after that.
Guest:It was the line after.
Guest:He takes another sip and he says, oh, I know what it is.
Guest:It's chicklets.
Guest:And that got a big laugh too.
Guest:And Mel said, no, but the
Guest:white wine got the bigger my dad says yes but it's not as funny as the chiclets because here's a guy who was a wine expert who couldn't tell the difference between a liquid and a solid that's the funny part so they yell at it yelling at each other and you're sitting there i'm sitting there i'm loving it loving it yeah
Marc:Well, you know, who else I talked to?
Marc:Norman Lear I talked to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he said about you that, like, I guess you vacation with his family or you live somewhere.
Guest:Well, no.
Guest:Well, here's the thing.
Guest:My dad and mom used to go with a group of other people.
Guest:There were the five families.
Guest:It's not like the Italians.
Guest:It was Larry Gelbart and his wife, Pat.
Guest:Norman Lear and Francis, Dom DeLuise and Carol, and Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft and my folks would go and they would rent a house together.
Guest:And they called it Yenemveldt.
Guest:For those of you who are not Jewish, it means heaven, the other side.
Guest:When you die, you go to heaven, Yenemveldt.
Guest:That's what heaven looks like.
Guest:Yeah, they have fun.
Guest:It's five Jewish families sitting around making each other laugh.
Guest:So that's what they did.
Guest:Now, the fact is, I used, as a kid, used to go over to Norman Lear's house all the time.
Guest:And he was actually the first person that ever thought I was funny.
Guest:Right, that's what he said.
Marc:He said you had the demeanor of an old Jewish man at like seven.
Guest:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:I was playing, I don't remember it, but I was playing Jax with his daughter.
Guest:We were about seven or eight.
Guest:And I was like, no, here's what you do.
Guest:You don't pick.
Guest:the ball up you put the thing and i was doing all that yeah and norman thought it was a funny and he told my dad he says your son is really funny and my father's that kid no no that brooding kid that sits in the end in the corner he's so sad not funny not funny but they they uh and then i finally bought norman lear's house what really yes well it was actually uh henry fonda's house
Marc:oh yeah is that where you live now yeah yeah yeah well that's years later many years later yeah at nine yeah nine and then about about 30 years later bought the house 32 yeah it's funny your father uh you just said said you were the brooding kid i was but you know but you talked to your father and within seconds he'll be my my son's friend albert
Marc:Yes.
Guest:The funniest guy I've ever seen in my life.
Guest:He was the funniest.
Guest:And Albert was a prodigy at age 16.
Guest:A comedy prodigy?
Guest:Yes, a comedy prodigy.
Guest:At age 16, he could make not just a dull slap, but...
Guest:professional i mean you know world-class professional comedians yeah my dad mel he'd make them laugh at age 16. it was an amazing thing yeah he said he used to do a shtick in the curtain and uh yeah what he did was he played a uh uh the greatest escape artist greater than houdini and he basically said here just uh he took a a napkin and you just draped it over his hands he said it's good enough like
Guest:It was not even tied.
Guest:And he put a thing in his mouth, just a napkin in his mouth, and he went behind the drapes.
Guest:There was nothing.
Guest:And all you heard from behind the drapes is, help, I can't breathe, I can't breathe.
Guest:He had nothing to stop his hands from taking the napkin out of his nose and out of his mouth, and he could just walk out from behind the drapes.
Guest:I can't breathe.
Marc:That was it.
Marc:That was the bit?
Marc:That was the bit.
Marc:And you guys have been friends since you were what?
Marc:Since we were 16.
Marc:That's crazy, right?
Marc:And you're still friends now?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:He came up to me last night because he won't come on the show.
Marc:He won't?
Marc:No.
Marc:Why?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:You tell me.
Guest:You know why?
Guest:Because you don't pay him.
Guest:That's why.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Is that it?
Guest:I think that's it.
Guest:It's not because he doesn't like to talk about himself?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:He's happy to talk.
Guest:He just doesn't want to waste all that good comedy.
Guest:You know?
Guest:What do you think it would take?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:A limo and 500 bucks?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But he's brilliant.
Guest:No, I know.
Guest:I like him.
Guest:I love him.
Guest:And here's what's weird.
Guest:So you've got Carl Reiner and Mel Brooks.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You've got Rob Reiner.
Guest:And Albert Brooks.
Guest:That's hilarious.
Guest:And also Jim Brooks, who's also a friend.
Guest:And then my son, Nick Reiner, is best friends with Joey Brooks, who's Jim Brooks' son.
Guest:Really?
Guest:So you got three generations of Reiners and Brooks, and all the Reiners are Reiners, and none of the Brookses are Brookses.
Guest:You've got Mel is Kaminsky.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Jim is Bernstein.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's funny.
Guest:Who was the third one?
Marc:And Albert is Einstein.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Everyone changed.
Marc:They like Brooks.
Marc:That fit.
Marc:Not Jewish.
Marc:Not too boyish.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It's in the middle.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just did the fourth season of my show on IFC, and I worked with Sally Struthers for one episode.
Marc:And she had lovely things to say about you.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Marc:You see, in my fantasy world, because I don't consider myself to be actually in show business, I think you guys...
Marc:You guys just talk to each other all the time.
Marc:I'm like, you got to call once a week, right?
Marc:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:You don't.
Guest:No.
Marc:You can spend all the years on television.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I mean, listen, when you're doing a show like that, eight years, you're as intimate as you're going to get.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I mean, you're a family.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then you move your different ways and you go on to different things.
Guest:No hard feelings.
Guest:You know, we are.
Guest:Every time I make a movie, I feel like we're a traveling circus.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You go from one town to the next, you're packed together, and then you're on to the next thing.
Marc:What kind of director are you?
Marc:Nice guy?
Guest:I'm pretty nice.
Guest:I'm pretty good.
Guest:I like to have a nice set.
Guest:I like to have a nice experience because I figured this out early on, but I really understand it now, is it's all about the time you have on the planet.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So if it's horrible and crappy and terrible, then that's all you have.
Guest:So might as well have a nice, fun experience.
Guest:And maybe you'll make a good movie.
Guest:Maybe you won't.
Guest:But at least the time you're spending is you're enjoying it.
Marc:Well, I just watched the most recent one that they sent me that I guess the reason why we got you today was the Charlie movie, Being Charlie.
Guest:Being Charlie, yeah.
Marc:The back story on that is your son co-wrote it.
Marc:You directed it.
Marc:And it was based somewhat on your son's experiences.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:My son, when he was 15 years old, started having problems with drugs.
Guest:And as parents, your first charge is to keep your children safe.
Guest:And so I didn't know what to do.
Guest:Michelle didn't know what to do.
Guest:We didn't know what to do.
Guest:He went into different, you know, programs, rehab programs in wilderness and different places.
Guest:And it, none of it worked for him.
Guest:It just, you know, he'd come out, he'd relapse, he'd come out, he'd relapse.
Guest:And as he was doing this, the last, one of the last places he went was this place promises.
Guest:He met this guy, Matt Ellis often, who's one of the writers on the film.
Guest:And they started writing about what their experiences had been and what they had gone through.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And when he got out and he was now doing better and feeling good, and now he's 19, he started writing with Matt.
Guest:He wrote a half hour, which was funny, but it wasn't really touching any of the really deep things.
Guest:And I said, you know, Nick, you could go a little deeper with this.
Guest:Why don't you try?
Guest:And he tried, and he did an hour comedy drama, and we tried to sell it.
Guest:We couldn't.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then I said, you know, maybe you can make a film out of this, because I think there's something in here about not only what you went through, but how it affected your mom and dad.
Guest:So we started working on it together.
Guest:And over the period of like a year, we came up with this thing.
Guest:And it was like it was the most personal thing I've ever been involved in, because, I mean, we're dealing with, you know, his relationship to me and what he went through.
Guest:And I'm learning.
Guest:more and more and learning probably the stuff I should have known early on that would have helped me help him a little bit more.
Guest:And it brought us very much closer together.
Guest:And we made this film.
Guest:And I think it's one of the most emotional and satisfying creative experiences I've ever had.
Marc:That's a great story.
Marc:And, you know, I got like 16 years sober and I was sort of whenever I see it depicted on television or in a movie, I'm not critical, but I'm like, let's see if they get it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you got it.
Marc:You know, you got the part of it that is you got that relentless, unexplainable nature.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:of the disease of addiction.
Marc:And I'm watching that thing.
Marc:I watched it all last night.
Marc:And my brain, and God knows you must know, that just in general, there's some part of you that's like, it's going to be a happy ending.
Marc:The other girl, he's going to get the girl.
Marc:And it's not an unhappy ending, but it's a difficulty.
Guest:It's a tough ending, but it's a hopeful.
Guest:It's hopeful and honest, I think.
Guest:It's hopeful and honest as he is going to struggle.
Guest:His relationship isn't perfect with his father, but it's better than it was, and it's going to get better.
Guest:And he's off on his own trying to make his way in the world and do the best he can.
Guest:It doesn't mean that that kid never relapses.
Guest:Sure, right.
Guest:I mean, that's part of what you have to go through.
Marc:But that's a ballsy way to end a movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's honest.
Guest:It's honest.
Guest:And you know, what's interesting, Mark, is that, you know, when we were working on it, the first draft, he was like the father character was like an asshole.
Guest:I mean, it was just a balls out asshole.
Guest:And I said to Nick, knowing how he had felt about me,
Guest:you know, back then.
Guest:Yeah, I couldn't see you being that.
Guest:No, we have a good relationship now and it's gotten way better and it keeps getting better.
Guest:And I said to him, just as a filmmaker, I said, you know, you can't have a character who's, you know, so one dimensional.
Guest:If it's going to be interesting, you've got to make it, you know,
Guest:three-dimensional with all the sides and he's like yeah but the guy's a prick he's a prick he's not a good guy and as the thing progressed that was tough for me to hear but as the thing progressed he came to me at one point he says you know dad i think that the father is a little bit too too much of an asshole we've got to make him a little bit more i said okay let's try you know and but this was as our relationship yeah was changing and then
Guest:The last scene in the movie, which is like you say, it's not all roses.
Guest:We changed that scene a hundred times while we were making the film right up till the day we shot it.
Guest:And that always reflected how things were moving in terms of our relationship.
Marc:So I imagine you got closer to him during this process?
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Like I couldn't see you being as much of a cold guy as the guy in the movie.
Guest:I wasn't.
Guest:I wasn't.
Guest:But I had to be strong, at least to what they told me.
Guest:And it's not my nature.
Guest:My nature is not to be the authoritarian, tough love guy.
Guest:I'm not that kind of guy.
Marc:Yeah, you don't feel that way.
Guest:But they told me that all these, like we say in the movie, everybody with a desk and a diploma.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:tells me you got to do this because otherwise you're got to detach with love and i it was hard i couldn't do i mean i had a hard time now i'm i'm learning a little bit more about what his situation is and i can be more of who i am and he's doing good yeah he's doing good how many kids you got i have three yeah he's the middle one
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:And you have an older one?
Guest:I have an older one who's 20.
Guest:He's going to be 25.
Marc:Show business?
Guest:Well, he's a broadcast journalist.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:And he works in Houston.
Guest:He's on the air a couple times a day.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:And what's the younger one do?
Guest:The younger one is just, she's 18.
Guest:She's just graduating high school and going off to college next fall.
Marc:That's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm the empty nest now.
Guest:So my wife has the, you know.
Guest:Oh, she got the full.
Guest:Yeah, she's stuck with me.
Marc:this is this is where it begins yeah the real challenge yes yeah it is i know i know i know because they're like you know that what like my brother's going through it a little bit his kid just went off to college and one of them said away at school and he's like so now what yeah you know when you're when you're married we married now 27 years you have all these distractions the kids the things the thing and then all of a sudden oh it's you
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do I like you?
Guest:I like you.
Guest:I love you.
Guest:But what we're discovering is that we do like each other.
Guest:Oh, that's good.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's a nice thing.
Marc:And we like to hang with each other.
Guest:To realize that's her in the house, right?
Guest:That's her in the house.
Guest:Look, if she didn't like me, she wouldn't drive all the way to Glendale or wherever the fuck we are.
Guest:Eagle Rock.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She came here with me.
Marc:She's not disappointed.
Guest:Well, I hope not.
Marc:But I have to bring her in.
Marc:I'll show her Obama's cup or something.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I'm very honored the fact that I'm sitting in the same place that Barack Obama is.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:It's great to have you.
Marc:I would have had you before, but you wouldn't have known that it was a thing.
Guest:You would have got the offer and you would have been like, what is this?
Guest:I asked you last night at the thing.
Guest:I said, has the fact that Barack Obama been on your show, has that...
Marc:elevated yeah i could get rob reiner it's a big break for me yeah i get it no but i would imagine it does help i mean it legitimizes it well it it it makes people aware of the the medium like i think a lot of people not even of a certain age but they you know you go on these media junkets or whatever for years people would come up here and go what the fuck is this
Marc:Where am I?
Marc:Am I in television?
Marc:Is it going to be television?
Marc:Do we just talk?
Marc:Who are you?
Marc:Is this your house?
Marc:And now the difference is like, so this is where Obama was.
Guest:That's the difference.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Marc:They put it on the map a little bit.
Guest:See, that's the other thing that's good.
Guest:You bring the people into your garage and you just start talking.
Marc:Yeah, what else are you supposed to do?
Marc:Well, I know.
Marc:There's no pomp and circumstance.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, there's a little pomp, but very little circumstance.
Guest:I saw some pomp sitting over there.
Guest:Yeah, in the cat box.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:Yeah, you should clean that out a little bit.
Marc:I got to clean the pomp out of the cat box.
Marc:All right, so let's go back then.
Marc:You started as an actor now when you, because I'm fascinated with the world that you guys grew up in because as time goes on, I realized that show business was a fairly intimate business and that your father's generation, there were a few studios, three TV networks and people ran into each other.
Marc:People kind of knew each other and there was a community that seemed
Marc:Kind of close.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you grew up in that.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:And it was strange because people have asked me so many times, what was it like growing up in that household?
Guest:You know, where there was Mel Brooks and Sid Caesar and Norman Lear and Larry Gelbert.
Guest:And I said, you know, when you're your kid, you don't know.
Guest:It's just this is what you have.
Guest:And it's not until you go over to some of your friend's house, you realize they're not quite as funny over there.
Yeah.
Marc:It's a little dollar.
Marc:These are just the guys your dad works with.
Guest:It's a little dollar at Paul Schindler's house.
Marc:At the lawyer's kid's house.
Marc:But was it sort of just an assumption from an early age?
Marc:You're like, I'm going to be in show business.
Marc:I'm going to do this.
Guest:No, I didn't think of that.
Guest:I mean, it's interesting.
Guest:I like to play ball.
Guest:I love playing baseball.
Guest:I love playing sports and stuff.
Guest:And it wasn't until I got into like my senior year in high school where I said, oh, wait a minute.
Guest:And I got into a drama class and I said, wait a minute.
Marc:Where'd you go to high school?
Guest:To Beverly Hills High School.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So that's the high school.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So here's the kids that were in this drama class.
Guest:All right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:First of all, Richard Dreyfuss was there.
Guest:Albert Brooks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Julie Cobb, who was Lee J. Cobb's daughter.
Guest:Oh, he was great.
Guest:Melinda Marks, who was Groucho Marks's daughter.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It was crazy.
Guest:But all of a sudden, I said, hey, I like these people.
Guest:I feel comfortable around these people.
Guest:They felt familiar.
Guest:And so I said, oh, maybe this is what I do.
Marc:Could that have had something to do with the Jewishness of the situation?
Guest:Well, there was a Jew-ness.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:There was a Jew-osity.
Guest:What, Groucho's kid was there?
Marc:Did you see Groucho at events?
Guest:No, I saw him at the house, though.
Guest:He came to our house.
Guest:He did?
Guest:Yeah, he was at the house.
Guest:Yeah, we had some... He's a little older than your dad, though, right?
Guest:Yeah, he was a lot older.
Guest:Steve Allen came over.
Guest:We had people like that.
Marc:And then Lee J. Cobb, that guy was something.
Guest:Yeah, I can do a perfect Lee J. Cobb invitation.
Marc:All right.
Guest:Although it probably is not as good on podcast or radio because you don't see the face.
Guest:You want to try?
Guest:But 12 Angry Men.
Guest:I mean, did you see, by the way, Amy Schumer's takeoff of 12 Angry Men?
Guest:I did.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:How fucking great is that?
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:She's very funny.
Guest:Jesus was funny.
Guest:Anyway, Lee Jacob and 12 Angry Men.
Guest:And you'll get a little more of a giggle because you'll see my face.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:The others won't.
Guest:Everything, every single thing says he's guilty.
Guest:What do you think?
Guest:I'm an idiot or something?
Guest:The old man saw him right there.
Guest:Pretty good.
Guest:Very good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It doesn't come in handy because nobody knows who Lee J. Cobb is.
Marc:Not anymore.
Marc:No.
Marc:So when did you start?
Marc:So you do the acting class.
Marc:Now, Dreyfus, I assume he was always like he is.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, he started professionally acting when he was like 13.
Guest:Duddy Kravitz.
Guest:Or the graduate.
Guest:Even before Duddy Kravitz.
Guest:Yeah, one line of the graduate.
Guest:Should I call the cops?
Guest:I'll call the cops.
Guest:Should I call the cops?
Guest:Yeah, but even before that, he was on...
Guest:what was it, Sally Field, the Gidget, and he did Ben Casey, and he did- So he was a working actor when you were in high school.
Guest:No, he was a working actor.
Guest:He did theater and all this stuff, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But he wasn't from a show business family, though, was he?
Guest:No, no, no.
Marc:You like him?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you know, he was one of the, my first marriage, I was married to Penny Marshall, and he was one of my three best men.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He was a good man.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a character.
Guest:He wasn't the best man, he was a good man.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Who was the best man?
Guest:Albert was there, and my other friend, Phil Mishkin.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Mishkin's a good Jewish name.
Guest:It is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when did you start acting?
Marc:When did it happen?
Guest:Well, I started... The first job I got, I was an apprentice at the Bucks County Playhouse, just building sets, painting scenery.
Guest:And then the next year...
Guest:uh out of uh first year out of college i went and started acting in a in a company called the priscilla beach theater here in town no that was in plymouth massachusetts and albert albert came with me we were there together you and albert were in a theater group in massachusetts yes but he just came out like did he go to college with you or you just said this is a thing we're doing this summer no we're gonna go this summer we're gonna go was it a prestigious thing no no it's nothing prestigious at all
Guest:All I can tell you is that we lived up in a loft in a barn area of the loft, and there was no toilet paper.
Guest:And one of the guys says, this is terrible.
Guest:I got to wipe my ass with old varieties.
Guest:So it was not luxury at all.
Marc:So you just wanted Albert to come out to have the summer camp?
Guest:Well, fun.
Guest:We'll act together.
Guest:We'll do some stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I did that for a while.
Guest:Then I came back to California.
Guest:I went to UCLA.
Guest:And I started my own-
Guest:No, I actually was in the theater school and I started my own improv group.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was friends with some of the people up in the committee in San Francisco.
Guest:I used to go up there and then I started my own group called The Session.
Guest:Rick Dreyfuss was in it and a number of other actors.
Guest:I acted in it and directed it.
Marc:Comedy driven or anything?
Guest:Comedy.
Guest:Yeah, comedy.
Guest:We did a lot.
Guest:And then we were together for about a year and then Larry and I broke off and we did a double act.
Guest:We played...
Guest:In clubs, you know, we played like the Hungry Eye.
Guest:Larry.
Guest:Larry Bishop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is Joey Bishop's son.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Larry Bishop.
Guest:Yeah, Joey.
Guest:So here's what happened.
Guest:You're doing comedy clubs?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, we got booked into all the clubs.
Guest:We got booked in Hungry Eye and Mr. Kelly's and Rooster Tail.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Mr. Kelly's in Chicago?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:All of them.
Guest:And then Paul Mall, you know, in Boston.
Marc:Bishop and Reiner?
Guest:Yeah, Reiner and Bishop, actually.
Guest:Sorry, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:That's okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we get booked in.
Guest:The first gig we have is in The Hungry Eye in San Francisco.
Guest:And we're opening for Carmen McRae, who is a really good jazz singer, you know.
Guest:And in the little room, they had a little room, was Mort Stahl.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Remember, he used to do all the stuff about the Kennedy.
Marc:With his sweater and his paper.
Guest:Yeah, you're right.
Guest:But he did a whole thing about the Kennedy assassination.
Guest:That was his big thing.
Marc:What year was this that you're talking about?
Guest:This is 60...
Marc:And you're what, 22?
Guest:I'm 19 years old.
Guest:19.
Guest:19 years old.
Guest:And we're doing a double act.
Guest:We open for, and we're getting paid.
Guest:I mean, we're getting like money, real money.
Guest:And Larry says to me, he says, Rob, I don't know if I like this.
Guest:I said, what are you talking about?
Guest:He said, you know, my dad, that's all he ever did.
Guest:He was in clubs his whole life, Joey Bishop, you know.
Guest:I said, I don't want to do it.
Guest:I don't want to be.
Guest:I said, Larry, we're booked at every club in the country.
Guest:He said, yeah, I'm not doing this anymore, though.
Guest:I don't want to.
Guest:So we canceled a whole tour.
Guest:You didn't even get to do that?
Guest:No, I didn't get to any of the things.
Marc:So you were booked at Mr. Kelly's.
Guest:I was booked everywhere.
Guest:And you did one gig?
Guest:We did the one gig, and then he said, no, I don't want to do this anymore.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:What did he end up doing, that guy?
Guest:Well, he did a lot of biker movies, and he's done some movies.
Guest:Directing or acting?
Guest:Directing, acting.
Guest:He's done some stuff with Quentin Taylor.
Marc:Still around?
Guest:Yeah, he's still around.
Guest:So that ended, and then I joined the committee.
Marc:Was that Fred Willard, Hessman?
Marc:Who was the committee?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The committee was Hessman was in it, Lee French, Carl Gottlieb.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Who else?
Marc:But not Willard.
Marc:Willard was.
Guest:No, Willard was not in.
Guest:He was with Greco.
Guest:It was Greco and Willard.
Guest:And then he joined Ace Trucking Company.
Marc:Ace Trucking Company.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Guest:So I was with the committee.
Guest:They came to L.A.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I went in that company.
Guest:And then Tommy Smothers came in one time and he hired me and Carl Gottlieb, who eventually went on to write Jaws and The Jerk and stuff.
Guest:And he hired us to write a summer show for Glen Campbell.
Guest:It was called the Summer Brothers Smothers Show.
Guest:And Glen Campbell was a star and that's launched his career.
Guest:And then we worked on the Smothers Brothers for a season.
Marc:It's so funny that these guys were these, Glen Campbell was a huge star.
Guest:Yeah, he was a big star.
Guest:And a big star.
Marc:Good guitar player.
Guest:The best.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He considered by many the best session guitar player ever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He played on every rock and roll album.
Guest:The Wrecking Crew.
Guest:Yeah, the Wrecking Crew.
Guest:All the Beach Boys stuff.
Guest:Everything, yeah.
Marc:So you're working with Tommy?
Guest:Yeah, well, I was writing.
Guest:I mean, I was the youngest.
Guest:I was 21.
Guest:And Steve Martin was 23.
Guest:And we were kind of thrown together because we were the youngest, too.
Guest:So we wrote together.
Guest:You're fucking kids.
Guest:Yeah, we were kids.
Marc:And did you write with Steve, or you just kind of pitched around?
Guest:No, I was paired off with him.
Guest:We wrote some good sketches.
Guest:One of the sketches we wrote, here's what would happen.
Guest:They would throw things out.
Guest:The day before, we were supposed to tape.
Guest:The censors would come and say, you can't do this.
Guest:It's too off the charts.
Guest:So Alan Blind, Mason Williams would say, well, who has anything?
Guest:Does anybody have anything?
Guest:No.
Guest:And I said, well, Steve and I just wrote this thing.
Guest:It's a satire of a Hollywood premiere.
Guest:It's like a red carpet, and they interview all the actors.
Guest:And we did a whole thing.
Guest:He said, let's hear it.
Guest:So Steve and I act out the whole thing.
Guest:We do the whole thing.
Guest:People laugh, and they love it, love it.
Guest:And then Alan says, ah, I don't know.
Guest:I don't think so, no.
Guest:So it doesn't get on.
Guest:Two weeks later, they drop another sketch from the show.
Guest:And Alan says, wait a minute.
Guest:What about that Hollywood premiere thing?
Guest:That was funny.
Guest:Let's hear that again.
Guest:We do the whole thing again.
Guest:Nah.
Guest:We did it like three or four times.
Guest:They just wanted us to perform.
Guest:They didn't care.
Guest:It never got on the air.
Guest:But they liked seeing you guys do it?
Guest:Yeah, they liked it.
Guest:But we did write the first fart joke ever done on national television.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was Pat Paulson played the guy who was the president of the Acme Novelty Company.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was doing the pucker gum and the hot gum and the dribble glass and everything.
Guest:And at one point, he sits down on a chair and you hear a big...
Guest:like this and he says ah somebody slipped a whoopee cushion in under me and then he gets up and of course there's no whoopee cushion there there's a big victory big victory for us yeah so so was that uh but you didn't you didn't want to necessarily be a writer in in television well i you know i mean that was to me the greatest thing in the world at the age 21 i could get that job and stuff you did a bunch of episodes
Guest:Well, we did a whole year.
Guest:I mean, a whole year.
Guest:With the Smothers Brothers.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So it's you and Steve, and was Martin Mull there?
Guest:No, he wasn't there.
Guest:We had Carl Gottlieb and John, geez, we had so many good, Albert's brother.
Guest:Bob Einstein.
Guest:Yeah, he was there.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Yeah, Murray Roman.
Guest:We had a lot of good people.
Marc:That's amazing.
Marc:And so you really learned how to do it, to get it from the page to the guy.
Guest:Yeah, you learn about it.
Guest:I mean, I had one thing that drove me crazy because I wrote a piece.
Guest:There was a song called...
Guest:It was Gary Puckett and the Union Gap, and it was a song where he said, are you kissing somebody else?
Guest:What was the song?
Guest:Damn it, I can't remember it.
Guest:Woman, woman, have you got cheating on your mind?
Guest:That was cheating.
Guest:And so I said, here's the thing, Tommy, you're with this girl and you're singing the song to her.
Guest:And while you're singing, a guy is just tonguing your girlfriend, just tonguing.
Guest:And he said, yeah, but I would see it.
Guest:I said, but that's the joke.
Guest:The joke is that you're singing and asking her, have you got cheating on your mind?
Guest:And she's right there doing it.
Guest:And he says, no, but that's it.
Guest:So now it goes on the air.
Guest:Now we're shooting it.
Guest:And every time he said, have you got cheating on your mind?
Guest:He'd look the other way and the guy would be kissing her.
Guest:And then when he turned back, he wouldn't be kissing her.
Guest:And then after the thing, he says, see, it didn't work.
Guest:I said, it didn't work because you didn't do what I told you to do.
Guest:You got to kiss her while she's saying cheating.
Guest:Anyway.
Wow.
Guest:When you're a young kid, they don't listen to you.
Marc:The way that you get excited, I can't imagine that when you and Albert Brooks talk, that anybody, like people must be just sitting around going like, oh my God.
Marc:Well, here's the thing.
Guest:Here it goes.
Guest:Well, here's the thing about Albert.
Guest:Albert is the funniest human being I've ever met in my life.
Yeah.
Guest:When he starts, you clear out.
Guest:You know, it's like a challenge dance.
Guest:Everybody goes and does.
Guest:But when Albert starts, everybody stops.
Guest:And I've been in groups with Robin Williams and Chevy Chase Ballou.
Guest:I don't care who's there.
Guest:They all stop to listen to Albert.
Guest:And I'll remember one time, I'll never forget,
Guest:He started in.
Guest:They stopped.
Guest:It was at a party.
Guest:And just killed.
Guest:I mean, just killed.
Guest:And then he finished, right?
Guest:He finished.
Guest:And then he left.
Guest:He left the party.
Guest:About 20 minutes later, the hostess of the party calls me over and says, Albert's on the phone.
Guest:I said, what?
Guest:What?
Guest:I get on the phone.
Guest:I said, Albert, what's up?
Guest:What's up?
Guest:He says, listen, you got to do me a favor.
Guest:I said, what?
Guest:He said, I left my keys in the house, in the apartment there.
Guest:Can you?
Guest:I can't come back.
Guest:I can't come back and get them.
Guest:Can you just get me my keys and bring them down to me?
Guest:He had finished his performance.
Guest:He wouldn't go back.
Guest:So I got the keys and I brought it to him.
Yeah.
Guest:He had his big exit.
Guest:Oh, no, he couldn't come back.
Guest:He couldn't go back.
Guest:It was the right move.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, Albert's the most brilliant person I ever did.
Guest:He did a routine once on The Tonight Show.
Guest:He played a mime, and I don't know if you ever saw it, but he was in Whiteface, and he had a leotard, a black leotard, and he comes out, and he never stops talking.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The entire time.
Guest:He just says, look here, I pulled the rope.
Guest:You cannot see the rope.
Guest:There is no rope here, but I am pulling anyway.
Guest:And it was brilliant, you know?
Guest:But he got no laughs.
Guest:Everybody thought, you know, it's just like the worst mime ever, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:No laughs.
Guest:So now, two weeks later, Carson, actually, my dad was subbing for Carson that night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The next two weeks, they called him.
Guest:They said, Albert, do you want to come back on The Tonight Show?
Guest:And he said, and by the way, he never tried out any of his routines in a club.
Guest:He just put them on the air.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:So next two weeks, I said, Albert, what are you going to do?
Guest:He says, I'm going to do the mime piece.
Guest:I said, what are you, crazy?
Guest:He said, the mind piece, you got no laughs.
Guest:He said, it's funny.
Guest:I said, I know it's funny, but nobody laughed.
Guest:So he said, I'm doing it.
Guest:He goes on.
Guest:He starts the exact same piece with the talking and the thing.
Guest:And again, nobody's laughing at the top.
Guest:All of a sudden, Carson starts to giggle.
Guest:And now the audience sees that they're digging it, and the place explodes.
Marc:He did it twice in a month?
Guest:Same thing, within a month.
Guest:But your dad wasn't hosting?
Guest:No, that was Carson.
Guest:Carson had never seen the bit.
Guest:My dad had seen the bit.
Guest:He knew what it was.
Guest:Carson had never seen it, and he starts to laugh, and he literally fell off his chair.
Guest:And the audience got the cue.
Guest:Oh, that's insane.
Guest:And so it taught me a lesson that sometimes you've got to just stay with something.
Marc:And also like the fact is, is that if they were taking it seriously, he allowed them to realize that.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But it's so funny at that point in time that they didn't trust Johnny enough to know that he didn't hire the worst mime in the world.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like how stupid do people got to be?
Marc:So when do you start doing All in the Family?
Guest:Well, I was, like I said, I was like 21 when I did... Smothers.
Guest:Smothers.
Guest:And then I was like 23.
Guest:I started writing for Andy Griffith.
Guest:He had a show.
Guest:This was after the Andy Griffith show.
Marc:A variety show?
Guest:No, it was a sitcoms called The Headmaster.
Guest:He played a headmaster of like a progressive...
Guest:high school and I wrote for that and I auditioned for All in the Family and Norman liked it he saw this episode that I wrote I actually acted in and he gave me a part I was only 23 at the time when we started
Marc:It's amazing how young you guys were when you were in the business.
Marc:I mean, it was happening.
Marc:And so how long did it take for that to gel?
Guest:Well, the thing about it is when it first came on the air, CBS was like disclaimers.
Guest:Basically, the views on this show do not reflect the attitudes of the network.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Basically, it said, if you want to watch this, we don't have anything to do with it.
Guest:You do whatever you want.
Guest:You watch it, but we don't really.
Guest:They didn't promote it or anything.
Guest:And then it was on for 13 weeks, and then 13 weeks over the summer, and after 26 weeks, people...
Guest:picked up on it it took that long then it went through the roof yeah yeah and what did you like the comedy on that was so beautiful yeah all of it was so the relationships were so beautiful yeah that's what was great about it I mean it was real it was honest I mean people we were arguing about all the issues that would you know of the day the Vietnam War the racism and we did everything
Marc:Yeah, and what was your relationship like with Norman?
Guest:Good.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:Good.
Marc:He knew me from the time I was a little kid, yeah.
Marc:Did you learn things from him in terms of, like, comedy and how to balance stuff?
Guest:Well, what I learned from him, the most important thing I learned from him is to go as far as you can with something.
Guest:In other words, don't accept...
Guest:dig further, go deeper, make it edgier, do more.
Guest:I mean, he's got the biggest set of balls of anybody I know in the show business.
Guest:And I got that you can push it.
Guest:You can really push it.
Guest:It was beyond the edge of the envelope.
Guest:I mean, we were way outside the envelope.
Marc:Because, yeah, the envelope was smaller then.
Marc:And the war and stuff, what was going on in Hollywood?
Marc:Because you're at that age, you were draftable, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then what happened with your peer group?
Marc:I mean, everything in show business is changing.
Marc:Your father's generation doesn't necessarily know what the hell's happening anymore.
Guest:Yeah, no, my father marched in the moratorium.
Guest:Against the war.
Guest:My mother was part of this group, another mother for peace.
Guest:She helped design this poster.
Guest:War is unhealthy for children and other living things.
Guest:That was a very big thing during that time.
Guest:But yeah, I mean, the war was divided the country.
Guest:And, you know...
Guest:We could have gotten killed.
Guest:I mean, you know, my Dreyfus became a conscientious objector.
Guest:There were guys I knew that went to Canada.
Guest:Others that went to jail.
Guest:It was a tough time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were on that show.
Marc:So you were confronting all that stuff.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was seven years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Eight years.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And what'd you learn about from Carol O'Connor as an actor, I imagine?
Guest:Well, what I learned a lot from him, which is if you have a good script, if you have a good story, you don't have to do anything with your face.
Guest:I mean, in other words, let the story support what you have to do and the audience will read in whatever they need to read in.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You don't have to, it's only when you've got a weak script and a weak story that you're doing, you know, acting pyrotechnics in order to make it kind of work.
Guest:Right, and he was such a great slow burn guy.
Guest:Oh, fabulous, fabulous.
Guest:Fabulous.
Guest:One time, oh, this is great.
Guest:One time I'm in a scene with him, and I can't remember why, but I was in bed.
Guest:I was in bed with him, and he's facing away from me, and I knock this jug of water on the side of the bed, and it goes into the bed.
Guest:And it hits him, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he turns around and looks at me like, did you just fucking piss in this bed?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like this.
Guest:He turns around and looks at me like this.
Guest:And he just keeps looking at me, you know, like this.
Guest:And the camera's over my shoulder looking at him.
Guest:And I'm just, I'm starting to go.
Guest:I'm starting to go.
Guest:And he just keeps looking.
Guest:And under my breath, I'm saying,
Guest:I'm so sorry, Carol.
Guest:I'm going like this because I couldn't stop.
Guest:You were going to laugh?
Guest:Oh, I had to go, yeah.
Guest:Because he just kept looking at me like, what did you do in this bed?
Marc:So now when you guys show up in movies, like after a certain point, like when you do a little bit in The Jerk, you show up as an actor.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:People know you, right?
Marc:They're like, Rob, will you come do this?
Guest:Or do you got to go audition for shit?
Guest:Well, I mean, I've gotten to a point now where I get called once in a while.
Guest:I did this Wolf of Wall Street a year or so ago.
Guest:Right, the father.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, that was fun.
Guest:And every once in a while, I do something.
Guest:And it's fun because there's no responsibility.
Marc:But Scorsese asks for you?
Guest:Yeah, they ask.
Guest:They say to come and do it.
Guest:And so I will always go.
Guest:I mean, listen, if Scorsese says to do it, you do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You don't wait around.
Guest:But I mean, I like it because I don't have a responsibility.
Guest:I mean, you just go as an actor.
Guest:When you're directing, you've got all the pain in the world.
Guest:I remember years ago, Ronnie Howard called me to do, there was a thing called Ed TV.
Guest:I kind of remember that.
Guest:Yeah, Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey, Ellen DeGeneres was in it.
Guest:Then...
Guest:He said, there's a part here, if you want, maybe you could read it and see if it's something you're interested in.
Guest:And I said, well, I don't have to read it.
Guest:I mean, I'll do it, whatever it is.
Guest:I said, if it stinks, it's not my fault.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So right now, the first movie they directed was Spinal Tap, right?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now...
Marc:That thing, you knew all those guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were all friends.
Guest:We had all done stuff together.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And how did you conceive of that?
Guest:Well, here's what happened.
Guest:I did a special for ABC.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And back, I think it was 1978 or 79, something like that.
Guest:And the whole special was an hour of satire of different things on television.
Guest:Right.
Guest:This was before SCTV, but it was a similar kind of thing.
Guest:A man sitting in a chair just flipping from one chair.
Guest:There'd be a sitcom.
Guest:There'd be commercials.
Guest:Oh, I see.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So the device was the guy flipping.
Guest:Flipping, and we'd make fun.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And one of the things we did was a takeoff of Midnight Special, which was a late night rock and roll show.
Guest:Don Kirshner.
Guest:Don Kirshner.
Guest:And it was Wolfman Jack, and I played Wolfman.
Guest:I did the Wolfman Jack thing.
Guest:And I introduced, for the first time, Spinal Tap.
Guest:We're England's loudest band.
Guest:And they came on.
Guest:They did a thing called Rock and Roll Nightmare.
Guest:Was it the guys?
Guest:Yeah, it was the guys.
Guest:It was Chris and Harry and Michael.
Guest:But it was also, we had Loudon Wainwright on keyboards.
Guest:And we had Russ Kunkel, great, great drummer who played for Linda Ronstadt and the Eagles and all these great- Hollywood guys.
Guest:Jackson Brown.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So they did it.
Guest:And-
Guest:Chris and Harry and Michael started just improvising in these characters while we're doing it.
Guest:I said, geez, it would be great to somehow do something with these characters beyond this one little piece that we did.
Guest:And then Harry and I had an idea for a movie called Rhodey.
Guest:And, you know, just what was it like to be backstage, you know, the roadies on a rock and roll tour.
Guest:Then a movie called Roadie came out with Meatloaf.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so we said, ah, forget that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Meanwhile, Chris and Michael, they had done a thing where they played two rock and roll guys who meet each other in a hotel room.
Guest:And they can't remember whether or not they played in a band together.
Guest:And they're kind of drugged out and stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And we look at that and we said, hey, let's all get together.
Guest:We'll make a thing out of this.
Guest:So that's what we did.
Guest:And I went to a company and I asked them to give us the money to write a screenplay.
Guest:We start to write the screenplay.
Guest:We realized there's no way we can convey in screenplay form what this is going to be.
Guest:So I said, give me the money you were going to give me for the screenplay.
Guest:I'll make a little of the movie.
Guest:So I made like 20 minutes with interview footage and backstage and concert stuff.
Guest:And I showed it to them.
Guest:They said, nah, we don't like this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it took a couple of years to, you know, walking, going around town to get somebody to be interested to make it.
Marc:And finally they did.
Guest:And they did.
Guest:And then we finally got to make it.
Marc:But there's this myth, this mythology around it that like Reiner had 60 hours.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I'll tell you what we had.
Guest:The first cut that we put together was four and a half hours, not including three hours of interview footage.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because I interviewed them.
Marc:So you did shoot a lot.
Guest:Oh, God, we shot.
Guest:I mean, we shot, you know, I had, it took me nine months to cut the thing because we basically edited it with the, because it's all improvised.
Guest:The whole film is improvised.
Marc:Now, was that the first time that was ever done?
Marc:That an entire movie was improvised?
Guest:I don't think anybody's ever done that.
Guest:I don't know that they have.
Marc:And then it sort of set this standard in terms of like, I think that was the thing that really informed Christopher Guest's movies around improvising.
Guest:Well, Chris did all those improvised movies.
Marc:And then you have these TV shows now like Larry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They do the improvising.
Marc:But it seems like that Spinal Tap was really the first template for taking that risk and giving it context.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was funny because we, you know, we had a, you know, a whole outline was four pages.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we didn't have, we didn't know.
Guest:And so we tried different things.
Guest:And one of the things we had, we had a group opening for Spinal Tap called The Dose.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like a punk band.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was Sherry Curie from The Runaways and stuff.
Guest:And if you remember in Spinal Tap, there's a shot where you see there's kind of a herpes sore on Michael and Chris.
Guest:And people laugh at it.
Guest:That was the remnants of a joke that took...
Guest:an hour to set up.
Guest:Basically, you see the dose opening for Spinal Tap.
Guest:And the next shot, Chris is with Sherry Curie.
Guest:And the next thing you know, he's got a herpes sore on his lip.
Guest:Then she's with Michael.
Guest:He's got a herpes sore.
Guest:Then he's with Harry.
Guest:They're passing her around.
Guest:She keeps getting herpes.
Guest:Now there's a band meeting.
Guest:They're all sitting around.
Guest:Four guys with herpes sores.
Guest:And the drummer, the only one without the herpes sore.
Guest:And they said, yeah, I think we've got to drop the dose from the tour.
Guest:And the drummer says, no, I like them.
Guest:I think we should keep them.
Guest:It took an hour to tell that joke.
Guest:So we lost that.
Marc:But it worked so good just without the unspoken thing.
Guest:Yeah, you just see two guys with herpes sores.
Guest:It was perfect.
Guest:But who was making those decisions?
Guest:You?
Guest:Well, yeah, I mean, we all did.
Guest:You know, the four of us.
Guest:You sat in editing together?
Guest:No, I was the one who was in the editing room.
Guest:But I would put together something, and then I'd show it to the guys, and we'd all talk about it.
Guest:Then I'd go back and work on it.
Guest:But it really was a collaboration, the four of us.
Marc:But you never thought to do anything with the footage that you didn't use?
Guest:Well, you know, in these DVDs and they put it.
Guest:There's a scene with Bruno Kirby where they get him high and he's singing My Way or something.
Guest:He's a big Sinatra fan.
Marc:So once you got the handle on the directing thing, you wanted to do bigger movies, scripted movies?
Guest:Well, I always wanted to direct.
Guest:That's the thing that I always wanted to do.
Guest:So, yeah, I mean, people would always say to me...
Guest:I don't understand how you could make your first movie could be a movie with no script.
Guest:And I said, well, but that's what I feel comfortable doing.
Guest:I mean, my whole life I grew up improvising and that's what I do.
Guest:But it was harder to do a scripted.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because you had to learn how to... Well, you got to know where to put the camera and what the lights do and everything.
Guest:The basics.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Marc:But the short thing, that kind of made John Cusack, right?
Guest:Well, yeah, he was 17 years old when we first did that, yeah.
Marc:And then he did Cameron Crowe's movie, and that blew it up, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But Stand By Me was huge.
Guest:Yeah, that one was big, but didn't know.
Guest:I mean, you know, we started out, it was four 12-year-olds.
Marc:Who knows if that's... Why'd you decide that?
Marc:Did you like the story?
Guest:Well, I liked... Here's what I liked.
Guest:The writing, I mean, it was based on a Stephen King short story called The Body.
Guest:And when I read the script, I thought, wow, that the writing is great.
Guest:These characters are great.
Guest:The time frame, I loved 1959.
Guest:I was 12 years old.
Guest:So that was the thing.
Guest:And then I didn't really know what the focus of it was.
Guest:And it was when I figured out
Guest:that it was about Gordy's character.
Guest:Because in the short story, he's just an observer.
Guest:He's like one of the four.
Guest:When I made him the focus and that his whole thing about feeling like his father didn't care about him because his father had lost his son and cared more about his brother, that's when it started becoming more connected to me and I started feeling, okay, I can tell this story.
Marc:And then he's a writer.
Yeah.
Guest:He's a writer.
Guest:And it had a sensibility, which is, you know, there's humor in it, but there's also a melancholy feel, which is the way, you know, my personality.
Marc:With some of the struggles the kids were going through.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Now, like something like that, when you got Dreyfus there as the narrator and then the guy you see at the end, is that just one of those things where you call Richard up and go, hey...
Guest:you want to do this well what happened exactly what happened was i had somebody else doing it and it didn't quite right it wasn't quite right it wasn't that the actor was good but the voice and the voiceover did so i tried a few other voices and then finally i called rick up and i said hey would you do the voice and he said yeah i'll do the voice but if you want i'll reshoot it for you and i'll be the guy yeah so i said okay great oh that's great yeah and that was a friendly thing right like you guys know each other forever
Marc:And The Princess Bride was an amazing movie.
Marc:Everyone loves that movie.
Marc:It's a fairy tale with all that comedy, all those great people in it.
Marc:Billy's in it, Mandy Patinkin, the guy who's in the new movie.
Marc:Yeah, Carrie L. was in Being Charlie.
Marc:You wanted to do a fairy tale.
Guest:How did that come?
Guest:Well, that was because I was a huge William Goldman fan.
Guest:I had read every book that he had ever written from...
Guest:Temple of Gold, My Turn to Curtsy, Your Turn to Bow, Boys and Girls Together.
Guest:So I loved it.
Guest:And my dad did a play on Broadway in 1968.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:It was called Something Different.
Guest:And Bill wrote a book about that season on Broadway called The Season.
Guest:And he became friends with my dad.
Guest:And when he finished Princess Bride, he gave it to my dad.
Guest:He said, what do you think about this?
Guest:And my dad said, I don't know if I can do this.
Guest:I don't know what to do.
Guest:But he said he gave it to me.
Guest:I was in my 20s at the time.
Guest:He said, here, you like William Goldman?
Guest:Why don't you read this book?
Guest:I read the book, and it was like, oh, my god.
Guest:This is like when you read something, and it feels like the person's writing for you.
Guest:It's like your sensibility.
Guest:I said, wow, this is incredible.
Guest:And so when I started making films, I started to my friend Andy.
Guest:I said, hey, they make movies out of books, don't they?
Guest:What about this?
Guest:I'll make a movie.
Guest:And I said, let's see if anybody's ever tried to make a movie out of Princess Bride.
Guest:I found out at that point that yes.
Guest:They had, you know, it was Francois Truffaut, Norman Jewison, Redford.
Guest:I mean, they all tried to do it and nobody could do it.
Guest:And I said, oh, let's see if maybe William Coleman would let me talk to him.
Guest:So I was able to get a meeting with him and he said yes.
Marc:Yeah, do it.
Marc:Try it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you found the humor in it all the way through.
Guest:Well, it's there.
Marc:That was there in the book.
Marc:Who else is gonna make it as funny as you, though?
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Marc:The guys you just mentioned, those aren't funny guys.
Guest:Somebody could do.
Marc:But your father directed, he did a lot of movies.
Marc:starting with Where's Papa, and then they did The Jerk, too, right?
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:So you were on set, I mean, in terms of learning how to use the camera.
Guest:Well, I was there for the Van Dyke show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My dad did the Dick Van Dyke show, and the very famous, you know, I did grab Mary Tyler Moore by the ass.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Everybody knows that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I didn't know that.
Guest:You didn't know that.
Guest:Well, now it's important that you do.
Guest:What did you do?
Guest:Well, I was 14 years old, and I saw her, and she was wearing those.
Guest:She was like 24, 25.
Guest:She wore those capri pants, and my hormones would go crazy.
Guest:She writes about it.
Guest:I'm not telling tales out of school, because she did write about it in a book and told a story on Letterman and all that.
Guest:I grabbed her ass.
Guest:My father calls me into his office.
Guest:She told on me.
Guest:I said, did you grab Mary Tyler Moore by the ass?
Guest:I said, yeah, I did.
Yeah.
Guest:He says, don't ever do that again.
Guest:He had a big smile on his face, though, I got to tell you.
Guest:He was happy that you did it.
Guest:Yeah, something, yeah.
Guest:So you saw how your father worked?
Guest:Yeah, he didn't grab her on the ass.
Guest:No, no, you did that on your own.
Guest:That's the only one I did by myself.
Guest:That was different from what his career.
Marc:Yeah, did you explain that you were improvising?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, in terms of learning how to direct.
Guest:Yes, I saw how he worked.
Guest:Yes, definitely.
Guest:I learned it at his knee and all that.
Marc:And he was a gracious director.
Guest:Well, it was his show.
Guest:I mean, I saw how he worked with the actors, how he changed the script.
Guest:I watched how they staged the cameras.
Guest:I did the same thing on All the Family.
Marc:But when he directed you in a couple of movies, how was that experience?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was fine.
Guest:I mean, it's fine.
Guest:It's weird.
Marc:Because my kid's going to do a thing.
Marc:There's always got to be that feeling.
Marc:That way he's bringing his kid.
Marc:It's good that you were funny.
Marc:It'd be bad if you were a shitty kid.
Marc:I know.
Marc:That'd be terrible.
Marc:And then, all right, so Harry Met Sally.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That was huge.
Marc:Big hit.
Guest:Yeah, your mother's line, big.
Guest:My mother's line, to me, was one of the great thrills of my life that my mother, who says I'll have what she's having, that line is considered one of the top 10 lines in movie history.
Guest:They talk, it's like, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn, and Louis, this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
Guest:And so they got Bogart and Clark Gable, and Estelle Reiner is in there with them.
Marc:Then you go off to sort of a different journey with Misery, which I loved.
Marc:I loved that movie.
Guest:Yeah, that was a fun one for me to make.
Marc:Well, James Caan is like, it was like this new thing.
Marc:Like he was getting old.
Marc:He'd been a little out of the game.
Marc:And then he comes in this sort of like humbled kind of- I know.
Guest:What I liked about it is he's this really physical guy and that he would be stuck in that bed.
Marc:Did you like working with him?
Guest:I did.
Guest:Every day I came up in the set, I'd come up to him and I said, okay, now, Jimmy, here's the thing.
Guest:In this scene, you're in bed.
Guest:I said that to him every day.
Guest:He kept looking like I was going to give him some words of wisdom.
Guest:No, see, Jimmy, in this scene, you're in bed.
Guest:I said that to him every day.
Marc:Did he laugh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I have no sense of what he's really like.
Marc:He's like, he's such a big presence.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's Sonny.
Guest:He's Sonny Corleone.
Guest:I know.
Guest:He got shot on the causeway.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:You can't, he's never, Freebie and the Bean.
Marc:I love that movie.
Marc:You know, like, you know, James Conn is like this guy, the gambler.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then to see him as this older guy, you got them all scared of this woman, Kathy Bates.
Marc:That made her, right?
Guest:She was great.
Marc:Unbelievable.
Marc:Did she win an Oscar or anything for that?
Guest:Yeah, she won an Oscar.
Marc:That's exciting.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was fun.
Marc:Do you have Oscars?
Marc:No.
Guest:What do you want me to do?
Guest:Do you want to give me one?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:I had a nominee for Oscar, but I didn't win an Oscar.
Marc:That's annoying.
Guest:I know.
Guest:It's really annoying.
Marc:Maybe you have to wait out for the lifetime achievement.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think they... But, you know, they should do it before you... See, that was the other thing I was thinking as I watched that.
Guest:Last night?
Guest:As I watched the thing last night.
Guest:They should have, like, memorial services, like when you're alive.
Guest:Because what good is it?
Guest:There were some big laughs there last night.
Guest:Gary didn't hear any of them.
Guest:Depends what you believe.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:Well, let's put it this way.
Guest:Even if you believe that there's an afterlife in heaven, he's not hearing it exactly the way it was.
Guest:It's filtered.
Guest:It's filtered through a lot of stuff.
Guest:But the point is, wouldn't it be great if he could be around and hearing all that before he goes?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It would be.
Guest:I think we're onto something.
Marc:And A Few Good Men, great.
Marc:It's got one of my favorite moments in movies.
Marc:Which is You Can't Handle the Truth.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But that was from the play, right?
Marc:That's from the play, yeah.
Marc:And working with Jack Nicholson, was that a nervous thing?
Guest:Jack is like the greatest actor for a director because he gives it his all all the time.
Guest:When he showed up in the table read, there's a lot of young actors in that.
Guest:There's Tom Cruise and Kevin Bacon, Kevin Pollock.
Guest:And a lot of Demi Moore.
Guest:I mean, a lot of good young actors.
Guest:And when he sits down at the table read, he reads it like it's a performance.
Guest:And it sends a message to everybody that we're here to really do the work.
Guest:I liken it like to...
Guest:You know, you're taking batting practice and everybody's hitting the ball.
Guest:And then all of a sudden, Babe Ruth steps in the cage and starts banging him into the seats.
Guest:And you go, okay.
Guest:You felt that, right?
Guest:Right at the table read?
Marc:Yeah, I see what this is.
Marc:And like Tom Cruise was like, whoa, shit.
Guest:Everybody said, uh-oh, we better step up our game.
Guest:And I remember when he did that famous speech where he does that, you know, you can't handle the truth.
Guest:We have a lot of angles.
Guest:And I said to Jack, I said, look, we can do one of two things.
Guest:Either I can shoot you first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, or I can shoot all of the reactions.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'll save you, you know, if you want to rehearse during.
Guest:He said, yeah, why don't you shoot the reactions in that way?
Guest:By the time you turn around and shoot me, I'll be ready.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:OK, so now we're shooting, you know, reactions for Tom Cruise and Kevin Bacon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he giving this full out performance every time, every time.
Guest:And at one point I go up to Jack.
Guest:I said, Jack, you know, maybe you should take it easy.
Guest:I mean, because we're going to come around to you.
Guest:And he says, Rob, you don't understand.
Guest:I love to act.
Marc:and he just likes to do that yeah oh that's a good moment huh yeah so but how do you choose man so you decide to take on race you do ghosts of mississippi and that was a heavy movie that was the medgar evans movie right right which i saw and it was like you know you you have a lot of range but you do bring a certain point of view to the movies and you have a directing style that's that i can identify yeah but you know i think also as i've gotten older
Guest:uh you know i'm learning more you know it's odd to say you know because i'm only i'm you know i just turned 69 and i'm still making movies i made two this year i'm gonna make another one and i'm learning more and more and as i go along i i think i get better my skills get better i figure out more about what i know what about economy or about vision yes both both you know your your vision begets uh you know it's it's a it's a it's a conglomeration of everything you've taken in on your life yeah
Guest:see it and then all of a sudden you find it going out on the page in the script right just experiences you had and knowledge and information and all this stuff and it gets out there now when when you do a movie is it is it uh something is it always something that you want to do that you initiate or you ever hired to direct
Guest:The only time I ever did anything that I didn't initiate was a movie called Rumor Has It.
Guest:And it's with Jennifer Aniston and Kevin Costner, Shirley MacLaine, and Mark Ruffalo.
Guest:And the only reason I did it as a favor because they had started shooting and they shut the movie down.
Guest:And my friend Alan Horn, who was at the time running Warner Brothers, who was my partner in forming Castle Rock, he called and said, we're in trouble.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:could you come and help?
Guest:Could you come and do it?
Guest:And so I said, yeah, okay.
Marc:I didn't see that one.
Guest:Yeah, no, I mean, it's like, you know, it was an exercise.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:That's a very diplomatic thing to say, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, Kevin Costner says to me, he said, you're like a guy who came in and looked at the garage, and it's a mess.
Guest:What the heck?
Guest:And he said, okay, we're going to put the paint cans over here.
Guest:We're going to hang the bicycle over here.
Guest:The tools are going to go.
Guest:Yeah, to put it all together.
Guest:Try to fix it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And the bucket list, I saw that too.
Marc:How did that happen?
Marc:I saw the bucket list.
Guest:The bucket list was just a script that came in over the transom.
Guest:I had turned 60.
Guest:And I started thinking about my mortality.
Guest:When I turned 60, I thought of myself as a very, very, very young old person.
Guest:It's like the beginnings of being old.
Guest:And I started thinking about life and the things that you want to do with your life.
Guest:So that came along at that time.
Guest:And I went, okay.
Marc:You got to work with Jack again.
Guest:Jack, yeah.
Guest:And that was fun.
Guest:And Morgan Freeman, who I love.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Both of them.
Guest:I mean, Morgan is like, you know, the nicest, easiest actor I ever worked with.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And he's like, he probably just turns it on.
Guest:He does.
Guest:And what's weird about Morgan is he's the fastest study I've ever worked with.
Guest:I mean, you can give him something.
Guest:Because Jack and I, every morning, we'd go in the trailer and we'd rewrite the scene, you know, whatever the scene was.
Guest:And we'd hand it to Morgan.
Guest:He'd take one look and he'd say, okay, I got it.
Guest:yeah and that was it so now the uh there's two questions i want to ask lbj is not out yet right no lbj we're hoping to come out is that based on the play it no no the play uh they did a they're doing an hbo special that's based on the play with cranston prion cranston i think comes out in may yeah
Guest:And hopefully ours will come out at the end of the year before the election.
Guest:But it's with Woody Harrelson.
Guest:As LBJ.
Guest:As LBJ.
Guest:What years?
Guest:It takes place for the most part by the time he's picked as vice president until the assassination.
Guest:And he assumes the presidency and delivers that famous speech in the House of Representatives about...
Guest:continuing Kennedy's legacy.
Guest:And there's some flashback to when he was majority leader prior to that, but it's a small sliver of time.
Guest:And Woody Harrelson, it's just off the charts how good he is.
Marc:He's pretty astounding.
Guest:Well, but you won't believe when you see this.
Guest:I mean, he becomes this character and...
Guest:There were days I would watch it and I would forget.
Guest:And I would go, oh, my God.
Guest:It's like, well, Johnson, he's there.
Guest:He's there.
Guest:And it's like weird.
Guest:It was weird.
Marc:It's all shot?
Guest:Yeah, it's finished.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It's finished, yeah.
Guest:Matter of fact, this week, we're showing it to distributors for the first time.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, tell me just, we can kind of close off on this.
Marc:Now, the creation of Castle Rock as a production company.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Because you did pretty good with that.
Yeah.
Guest:yeah i mean we started 1987 there were the five of us yeah and we you know up till now we've done over 125 movies yeah and the seinfeld of course you know we did that so now how does that work with that so you were the producer or one of the producers your production company did seinfeld yeah and so that's money forever hopefully
Marc:because I met with them.
Marc:I had a deal with NBC on a pilot years ago, and Castle Rock was a production company.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you guys had done Seinfeld, or maybe it was just over, maybe it was the last season or two, and mine went nowhere.
Marc:But I remember being excited to meet... Who were the guys over there?
Marc:Glenn?
Marc:Was it Glenn?
Guest:Glenn Padnick, yeah.
Marc:And Richie Rosenstock.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Those were the guys I met.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And they were talking.
Marc:It was going to be great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nothing happened.
Guest:That's so sad.
Marc:You need...
Guest:It wasn't that great a thing.
Guest:Do you need money?
Guest:No, I'm all right.
Guest:Are you okay?
Marc:You're all right.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I was a chef.
Marc:It was not a great script.
Marc:But what are you going to do?
Marc:I didn't understand television.
Guest:Well, listen, you don't know.
Guest:We did a pilot prior to that with Howie Mandel.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Jerry Seinfeld auditioned for that, and we decided to go with Howie Mandel.
Guest:That didn't work.
Guest:It went like 13 episodes.
Guest:And then George Shapiro, who's Jerry's manager, he said, well, we have an idea with Larry David.
Guest:Come in.
Guest:And so that's how that happened.
Guest:I mean, it was because we'd seen Jerry do it.
Guest:Of course, we thought he was a stand-up.
Guest:I didn't know he was interested in doing it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:He had no idea.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you never know if it's going to be successful.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But how much of a part do you have in the day-to-day with that stuff?
Guest:I didn't have any.
Guest:My biggest part was convincing Brandon Tartikoff not to throw it off the air.
Guest:I had to go in and make the most impassioned plea.
Marc:You did?
Guest:Yes, I did.
Guest:Did you pace?
Guest:Did you sit?
Guest:Well, I screamed a lot.
Guest:Really?
Guest:You got to that level?
Guest:Yeah, I was pretty hot because I said, this is the best show that you will ever have, and you reject it.
Guest:You're turning your back on one of the funniest creative shows.
Guest:And he said, I can't have a show.
Guest:At that time, it was called the show about nothing.
Guest:I mean, they had an episode where they sat around and waiting for a table at a Chinese restaurant.
Guest:And he said, I can't have a show where that's all they do is sit around, wait for a table at a Chinese restaurant.
Guest:There's got to be things.
Guest:There's got to be stories.
Guest:There's got to be stuff.
Guest:And I said, I promise you there'll be.
Guest:And then I finally convinced him.
Guest:He said, okay.
Guest:And then I go to Larry and I said, Larry, we got to have stories.
Guest:We need stories.
Guest:He says, you want to turn this into the fucking Lucy show?
Guest:I said, no, no, Larry, it's not going to be the Lucy show.
Guest:I said, it's your sensibility.
Guest:No matter what, it's going to be yours and you're going to be able to do it.
Guest:And then, of course, Larry, once he discovered the idea of story, it was like, hey, this is great.
Yeah.
Guest:it was not on his and boy did he have so he had intertwined things hooking up to other things it was like he it was like all of a sudden he had reinvented he was so happy but he did he had not conceived of that before not initially he thought it would just be two guys hanging out talking to you know like he and like he and jerry would do yeah and so you know and that was certainly part of it that was a big part of it but then these other things and the stories became so they unbelievable yeah
Marc:And when did that happen?
Marc:When you had done the pilot or it had been on?
Guest:No, it had been on.
Guest:It had been on a little while and they were going to throw it off.
Guest:Oh, and you stepped in.
Guest:I stepped in.
Guest:And Larry had an epiphany.
Guest:Larry, yeah, it took him a while.
Guest:But then if you look at Curb Your Enthusiasm, I mean, how great is that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's story up the yin-yang.
Guest:I mean, it's like, you know.
Guest:Have you been in one of those?
Guest:Yeah, I did one.
Guest:I'm trying to remember.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I think it was like in the first or second year.
Guest:As yourself?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I basically run into him in the waiting room of a psychiatrist's office, and I say, you know, I try to convince him to auction himself off for a charity for lunch.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Grote syndrome.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The equivalent of drinking 10 cups of coffee every hour.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And you guys are buddies, kind of?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:No, he's a great guy.
Guest:Larry, he's brilliant.
Guest:Sweet guy.
Guest:Yeah, brilliant.
Marc:Well, man, I like that you guys are all friends.
Marc:It makes me feel better.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Anything you want to talk about?
Guest:Well, just being Charlie is coming out May 6th.
Marc:Then that's a different kind of movie for you.
Guest:Yeah, it really is.
Guest:I mean, there's humor in it, but it's pretty dark in a lot of places.
Marc:I like that the kid's stand-up was okay.
Marc:That actor handled it okay.
Guest:He did it okay, yeah.
Guest:He did.
Guest:Yeah, it's hard to do.
Guest:It's hard to do, but he's not a comedian.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I had to work with him and get him to...
Marc:But he's an open mic.
Marc:You're not assuming.
Guest:It's open mic.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he's also 18 years old.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he's just starting out.
Guest:He's trying to get us.
Marc:Well, it's a heavy movie, and it was well done, and it was honest, and I appreciated it.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:And I'm glad your son's okay, and it was an honor and a thrill talking to you.
Guest:Thanks.
Marc:You see, nobody knows, but we're shaking hands right now.
Marc:It just happened.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Thanks, Rob.
Marc:All right.
Marc:How great was that?
Marc:He's Rob Reiner.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:He's like in our hearts and minds.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get tickets to my Tripany House shows through the months of May and June, Tuesdays.
Marc:Nice cheap ticket.
Marc:Some good times.
Marc:Is my guitar on?
Marc:Oh, it's on.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Stay open, people.
Marc:That's one thing I learned from that.
Marc:From that Shanling Memorial, among other things.
Marc:Try to stay open.
Marc:Stay open, stay present.
Marc:This might be it.
Marc:This might be it.
This might be it.
Marc:Boomer lives!
Thank you.