Episode 686 - Iliza Shlesinger
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is wtf this is my podcast welcome to it
Marc:Today we have a great guest, Eliza Schlesinger.
Marc:The comedian is going to be talking to me soon.
Marc:She's an intense comic, and I've enjoyed watching her get funnier and become more of a fucking pro.
Marc:I worked with her years ago, years ago, down at the vine-covered La Jolla Comedy Store.
Marc:Anyway, she'll be here in a little while.
Marc:But I did want to say this.
Marc:I was pretty excited about this that, you know, I did a special.
Marc:I did one a few years ago that's been on Netflix for years.
Marc:Thinky pain.
Marc:I don't always know when people, you know,
Marc:what they get out of listening to me or going to my stand-up.
Marc:And sometimes I don't know what people know me for, and it doesn't really matter.
Marc:I'm fine with being a conversationalist on the podcast.
Marc:I've been a comedian more than half my life.
Marc:It's my first love and passion.
Marc:I'm an amateur guitar player.
Marc:I don't expect a lot of feedback for that.
Marc:I do a TV show.
Marc:But the point is that my special, my new one,
Marc:More later, which I was very proud of and I worked hard on, was released on Epyx.
Marc:It was produced by Epyx.
Marc:Bob Gultway directed it.
Marc:And a lot of people don't have Epyx.
Marc:A lot of people could not see the special.
Marc:It is still available on Epix.
Marc:So if you want to get Epix, they have a lot of other stuff on.
Marc:They're doing some original programming.
Marc:There's more comedy on there.
Marc:Get it.
Marc:Get Epix.
Marc:You know, I mean, they did pay for the special.
Marc:Epix did a fine job with it.
Marc:They did whatever they could.
Marc:They provided me everything I needed.
Marc:And we had a great show recorded live at the Vic in Chicago.
Marc:And I set out to do something differently on that special.
Marc:And I'll just tell you because...
Marc:The good news today is that from what I understand, the special more later, my latest comedy special is today as of today available on Hulu and on Amazon Prime.
Marc:So that means a lot of you who couldn't see it because I didn't even know where to direct you.
Marc:If you didn't have epics, if it wasn't available on your cable or whatever, I didn't know what to tell you.
Marc:And I'll tell you why.
Marc:Not the backstory, but what's different for me as a guy who does comedy, but is clearly at this point in my career a little more well-known for this rambling and this talking to other people.
Marc:I worked about a year and a half putting that set together, and I did something I had not done.
Marc:That I had not ever done in my life.
Marc:I had this fantasy in my mind.
Marc:I always work kind of loose.
Marc:And I like working loose.
Marc:And I don't even mind doing that on TV.
Marc:Obviously if you're doing.
Marc:Here's the way it breaks down.
Marc:Like if you got to do a Conan set.
Marc:Or a Tonight Show set.
Marc:Or used to be Letterman.
Marc:Or Kimmel.
Marc:Whenever you got to stand up on a stage.
Marc:On television.
Marc:On one of those shows, you get about four and a half minutes.
Marc:That's about, for me, five or six jokes.
Marc:You've got to tighten that thing up.
Marc:You've got to take the jokes out of context.
Marc:You've got to make that thing work in a four and a half minute chunk.
Marc:That's no easy trick, but as a comic who wants to do television, that's part of your job.
Marc:Now, when you do a slightly longer set, like a premium blend, or maybe you get your own half-hour comedy special, it behooves you to structure the thing, but you got a little more opening.
Marc:You can move through stories.
Marc:You can connect the dots.
Marc:You got a little more freedom, but it still has to be tight, and you should know where you're going.
Marc:When you do an hour...
Marc:You got a couple of options.
Marc:Now I've done several CDs and they can be a lot looser because you can cut those down and, and edit those a little more precisely and, and move through a few shows.
Marc:But when you got an hour, like I did thinking pain, for instance, thinking pain was probably about an hour and a half hour and 15 minutes.
Marc:I did that for Netflix and I went out of my way to stay loose and to move through things that I was working on and things that were tight, but none of it was new with more later.
Marc:I wanted to do a big theater show.
Marc:Thinky Payne was for about 250 people.
Marc:It was a small club, and I wanted it to be that way.
Marc:I wanted it to have that intimacy, and I wanted it to have a loose vibe.
Marc:But with More Later, I really worked the material.
Marc:I did a tight hour or so, maybe a little longer, but I repeated it.
Marc:I crafted it, and I wanted it to be... I wanted it to have points of reference that I called back later.
Marc:It was really...
Marc:I put a lot of work into it and a lot of like professional comic work and the type of crafting of a special that I don't usually do necessarily.
Marc:Or maybe I just don't say I do it, but this was conscious and I wanted to do it in a theater, which I was not a fan of, not a huge fan of theater shows because I don't think they necessarily are as intimate as they could be.
Marc:But there was part of me that said, look, dude, you know, you can, you can make a large space intimate, just, you know, focus.
Marc:So,
Marc:The reason I want everyone to see it, aside from the fact that I did it and it's a comedy special, is that I worked hard on it.
Marc:And it was on Epix and some people saw it, but most people didn't.
Marc:And now it's on Hulu and Amazon Prime and I'd like you to watch it.
Marc:So that's my plug for me.
Marc:All right.
Marc:What else can I tell you?
Marc:I'm just having some feelings.
Marc:It's not because I'm old.
Marc:But, you know, I don't have kids.
Marc:And I don't have a wife.
Marc:And I've had them.
Marc:Not kids, but wives.
Marc:And I'm very happy to say that, you know, recently, you know, I've had friends who have had children who have had some difficulties.
Marc:Relatives as well.
Marc:And, you know, I get very invested in my friends' children and in them.
Marc:And, you know, for a guy that used to be so selfish,
Marc:Somehow or another, you know, and I guess this is the point of it is that the more okay you are with yourself and the more able you are to sort of be in your own body and live your own life without deciding that it's not the life you want to live all the time or it's not quite right, it makes you a little more emotionally available to experience some of the joys I imagine normal people have.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:people who have responsibilities and have had their own children and, you know, have to deal with that every day.
Marc:But I just found myself very moved recently by some progress that my brother's kid made and my friend's kid made.
Marc:Like I literally get choked up
Marc:when obstacles are overcome by other people's kids.
Marc:And I don't even know why I'm telling you this.
Marc:I think I'm just happy that my heart is connected properly.
Marc:It only took 50 years.
Marc:But be nice to each other, will you?
Marc:It's very hard now.
Marc:We've got a lot of things coming at us all the time.
Marc:It's just an onslaught of garbage.
Marc:And I don't know, man.
Marc:It's just like when I really think about, when I pull out, because I can't keep up with anything.
Marc:I barely keep up with politics, with pop culture.
Marc:I'm very busy.
Marc:And when I check in, it's sort of like it doesn't take long to get caught up because a lot of it is just this onslaught of garbage.
Marc:At some point, we've got to pull ourselves away to really decide where our hearts are aligned.
Marc:You know, what does it really mean?
Marc:You know, the decisions you're making about the future of yourself, about the rest of the day, about your country.
Marc:I mean, how much distance are you taking to really think it through without being pummeled by by propaganda, by information, by other people's ideas?
Marc:I mean, do you really know for yourself what the right thing is for reasons that make sense?
Marc:I mean, do you take the time to do that?
Marc:How many of your own thoughts do you really have?
Marc:I mean, if you really think about what the amount of information and the amount of access that we have is doing to our memories, I mean, is there a reason to even have a memory anymore?
Marc:Do you have your own personal memories?
Marc:How much of them have been annihilated by this short-term cancer of immediate access to any information?
Marc:Yeah, like porn too.
Marc:Porn is just, you know, somehow if you're not careful, it can annihilate your ability to interact intimately with another human being.
Marc:And just the information in general, it's just as just in your pocket, on your phone, on your computer.
Marc:It's just it's coming at you.
Marc:It's coming at you.
Marc:And most of our fucking identity these days.
Marc:And I imagine kids who grew up with this stuff are a little more adept at that.
Marc:But most of our identity is is based on how we reckon with the onslaught of information and how we can find our own thoughts within it.
Marc:Sometimes I talk to people and I tell them things and a week later they tell them back to me like they thought of them themselves.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:That's because there's too much information coming in and you can't separate it.
Marc:All you're doing is sponging up and taking in and it feels like you're thinking, but I don't know if you're thinking.
Marc:I mean, fortunately, I'm too exhausted and too anxious to engage with the pace of everything on a day-to-day basis.
Marc:And I try to figure out what the fuck I'm thinking.
Marc:Am I having my own thoughts?
Marc:Am I having my own ideas?
Marc:Do I have things that I like that are truly mine?
Marc:I believe I do.
Marc:I'm working on it.
Marc:Eliza Schlesinger is my guest today.
Marc:And you can see her new show, Separation Anxiety, premieres on March 8th on TBS.
Marc:And now let's talk to Eliza.
Music
Marc:You good?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What are you going to just get all quiet now?
Marc:No.
Marc:Because we're on the mic and it's going to shut down?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I get shit in my pants right before.
Guest:Oh, come on.
Guest:Whenever I follow you at the store, because I've been bringing you up for almost maybe six years now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or vice versa.
Guest:I think I always go before you.
Marc:We go back and forth.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:i've brought you up before our energies are so different uh-huh and so whenever you are offset like i almost have to like do a smudge stick because i'm like i can't match that well that's the best approach totally i i mean i mean i've done the the other approach is like i'll just jump into that fucking that's no you can't do that you can't what do you mean i have uh what i'm you're intense and full of energy
Guest:super intense and full of energy uh like i move around a lot i when i see you on the stage you're almost always in a fetal position whether erect or horizontal and it's so introspective and it's like real shit and it's a lecture and i'm like i gotta lecture i gotta make sure i get in then you come up and just like boom like blow it up well i mean the first time i work with you was what it was hoya like what were you a child
Guest:You know, it was my bump, it's forgiven.
Marc:Yeah, when was that?
Guest:Oh, I don't know, I don't even remember that.
Marc:Yes, how could you not remember?
Guest:Were you headlining?
Marc:Yeah, and you were in the middle, it had to have been like... It had to have been 2007.
Marc:Right, that long ago.
Marc:So you were kind of like a child, in a way.
Guest:I don't remember, and I feel so, like I'm big timing you by not remembering that I'm in the middle.
Marc:No, but I remember like your hair was different, I think your family was there.
Guest:um was nick yousef with us yeah i was so nervous i remember this now i forgot that you were headlining i was so nervous it was my first time going there yeah and and i my family came and i remember i think i texted you and nick and i was like we're gonna go to dinner if anyone wants to come like i didn't know the protocol or i don't think i texted i was like what can i say to mark mary nothing yeah texted nick he didn't want i was like i guess it's i shouldn't bother anyone i was so
Guest:Because it was such a big deal.
Marc:Are we all part of the same team?
Guest:No, I wasn't staying in the condo.
Guest:Was I?
Guest:I don't even think I was.
Marc:I don't think I was.
Marc:I think I drove back and forth.
Guest:Yeah, and now it could not be less of a big deal.
Marc:Well, wait, so what was your family doing in San Diego?
Guest:My dad had driven down with my uncle and my brother was like, I'll come because it's free food.
Marc:And they did a thing.
Marc:And it was your first, it wasn't your first comedy club gig.
Guest:No, but it was my first time in La Jolla.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:As having my own spot.
Marc:What's amazing about La Jolla is how did they, how was she able to reconstruct that dark, shitty energy and dump it onto a beach?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Move it to a beautiful place.
Guest:It's unbelievable.
Guest:Maybe because it's a little removed from the beach and it's in a shitty old building.
Marc:I know, but that building is not that old.
Marc:It's just like it's covered in ivy.
Marc:Yeah, it looks like a steakhouse.
Marc:Like the earth wants to take it back.
Marc:It's like, how is that the haunted most shitty looking place in the area?
Guest:Yeah, it's the energy of the comics.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Marc:It was something like it does feel exactly like her like that's how you realize that Mitzi had this weird power to bring that design in that dark.
Marc:You walk in and it's just dark and weird.
Guest:The whole theme, the whole comedy store is black and red.
Marc:Black and red.
Marc:Yeah, the colors of Satan.
Guest:yeah and inside the colors of our lord yeah and inside it's like that weird spanish tile yeah like inside looks like the lobby of a mexican restaurant like an old one in in la jolla yeah right in the bar area yeah but isn't it carpeted in the showroom like the stage is kind of shitty it is shitty that shitty red curtain or a black curtain i can't remember
Guest:This is a terrible story, but that was the first club where I almost got into a physical altercation with an audience member.
Marc:With a chick or a dude?
Guest:Well, I thought it was a dude making noise.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It was like the last five minutes of the set.
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:It's the worst.
Guest:You're like, if you only knew how close we were.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So we're almost out.
Marc:I didn't hurt anybody.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or me.
Guest:Or myself.
Guest:And he's making all these noises and he was doing it.
Guest:Sometimes they do it to get attention.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:and i just snapped oh i think at the time i lacked the comedic skills to properly deal with it or to really like i bet you're great at snapping i i saw red i jumped into the audience which is a foot drop from the stage yeah i threw tables i like pushed them out of the way got right in there i got in there and the guy gave up his girl he goes it's her thinking right i don't know threw her right under the bus and
Guest:All I remember thinking was, if I hit her, I'm in trouble.
Guest:But if I get her to hit me, she's in trouble.
Guest:And I can hit her.
Guest:I bopped her.
Marc:You did?
Guest:Bopped her on the shoulder.
Marc:Oh, that was it?
Guest:What am I going to do?
Guest:I went to private school.
Guest:What am I going to do?
Guest:Punch her?
Marc:No, but I mean, were you saying, you fucking cunt?
Guest:No, I was like, what's your fucking problem?
Guest:And I bopped her, trying to get her to hit me back.
Guest:And then they broke it up.
Guest:But I was amped.
Guest:I was like, I will see you in the parking lot.
Guest:And Mark Ellis was like, no, we're not going to the parking lot.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:I was so angry.
Marc:Did that happen a lot on stage for you?
Guest:That has not happened before.
Guest:I've definitely, and I don't do this anymore.
Marc:How long ago was that?
Marc:maybe like 2010 2011 because you're all full of uh the beans up there you know you like you're you're jumping around you're talking fast you're making the voices yeah it's like church it's like a like a baptist church no but you're smart and you fucking lay out the words yeah and you got you know good observations you have like uh you have a momentum i can only imagine that you in some sort of weird rage would be nothing but entertaining to comedians sure
Guest:uh entertaining sure i think also there's that you have that energy and when someone deigns to interrupt you in the middle of this freight train right no i know believe me you're talking i know but like i would i fear for the person who interrupts you
Marc:No, I used to snap all the fucking time.
Marc:I have to consciously, sometimes at the store, and depending on how much coffee I've had, it can still happen.
Marc:You know when you're up there and you feel like an audience is either resistant or difficult to manage, and there's part of you that wants to fucking unload, but it ultimately doesn't have anything to do with them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's all you.
Marc:Yeah, but you want to do it.
Guest:You want to do it, and you want to... I've given... I don't get angry anymore if they don't laugh at a joke that empirically works.
Guest:I will just be like, that is a network-approved joke, and you're wrong for not laughing.
Guest:Moving on.
Guest:And they like that.
Guest:They like that a little bit of abuse.
Marc:I think that having some meta-commentary about what you're doing to sort of...
Guest:protect yourself from your judgment it changes the energy and then they get on your side yeah i have two stock lines that i use yeah and to address that they're not laughing the way i want them to and it usually shakes them out they're like oh i better pay attention while i'm ordering my drinks and they do and they they get with it well you just have you got you know you're you're a big build person you're going somewhere there's a destination yeah there's going to be a closer a defined closer just
Guest:Sit tight, folks.
Guest:Don't fuck with it.
Guest:And we'll get you there.
Marc:So 2007, that's when I work with you down there.
Marc:So when, what's the, so that's, it's weird.
Marc:It's like eight years ago.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can't do that math.
Guest:I trust you when you said eight.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But I mean, how old are you?
Marc:I'm 32.
Guest:I'm 32.
Marc:Isn't that wild?
Guest:I judge it all.
Guest:I mean, to be doing that, I remember Last Comic Standing was 2008, so I can always remember what came on either side of that.
Marc:Yeah, but where did you come from?
Guest:Where I come from?
Marc:Yeah, I mean, like, why?
Marc:Because, like, back then, I'm like, she seems to have something.
Marc:Why don't I know her?
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:And then I feel like I didn't see you for, like, a couple of years.
Guest:I was just, yeah.
Marc:And then, like, all of a sudden, you had long hair, and you were grown up, and you were pretty, and you had a dog.
Marc:And I'm like, what the fuck happened to that girl?
Yeah.
Guest:well the hair was extensions because i was on a tv show because like when i met remember you like for some reason it was almost feathered in my mind it was not feather it wasn't tommy feathered uh i'm not tom petty right uh although my hair does look i'll show you when we're done i'll take my hair down and i'll lay it flat yeah i have the worst white trash haircut it just grows into this like feathered right so it wasn't though you're remembering it wrong
Guest:I had very short hair.
Guest:I'm remembering that.
Guest:I had very short hair.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:And then after the show, I went on tour for a very long time.
Guest:And then that was the beginning of that.
Marc:Okay, so where'd you come from originally?
Guest:I'm from Dallas.
Guest:But I didn't start doing stand-up until I got to LA.
Marc:So you grew up in Dallas, Texas?
Marc:Did you say ugh after I said that?
Marc:I've grown to like Texas, believe it or not.
Guest:That's the first reaction.
Guest:It's a knee-jerk thing.
Guest:People like to shit on it, but it's a lovely place.
Marc:I grew up in New Mexico.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, like, we were your neighbors.
Marc:So, we had to deal with you in your ski outfits.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In, like, Ruedoso.
Guest:I've been there.
Marc:Ruedoso or Taos or, you know, Santa Fe.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, my Texas bias was based on obnoxious behavior on ski slopes primarily.
Guest:Just, yeah.
Marc:So, what was the deal in Dallas?
Marc:How many brothers and sisters?
Yeah.
Guest:I have one brother.
Marc:Younger?
Guest:My brother is two years younger and he spends half of his year in Northern California growing acres of medical marijuana.
Guest:And then he spends the other half of the year in Atlanta working in music.
Marc:Parents are very proud.
Marc:You both turned out so well with secure employment and education.
Guest:Here's what my dad said about my brother the other day.
Guest:My dad works for principal financial.
Guest:I have a half brother and a half sister as well.
Guest:And my dad calls me and he goes on like a big trip every year for principal financial.
Guest:They're top guys.
Guest:And he calls and he's from New York.
Guest:He goes, you know, last year it was in Mexico and you didn't come.
Guest:I'm like, of course not.
Guest:I'm not going on a family vacation.
Guest:I'm a grown woman.
Guest:I vote.
Guest:I've got a mortgage.
Guest:I'm not going.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Last year it was in Mexico, he didn't come.
Guest:The year before it was in the Bahamas.
Guest:This year Emily can't come and Brad is in college.
Guest:And Ben, well, he's a felon.
Guest:So he doesn't have a passport.
Guest:So you're invited.
Marc:Did you go?
Marc:No, I'm not going.
Marc:He's a felon?
Guest:He's a felon.
Guest:Your brother's a felon.
Guest:We know what he is and-
Marc:Is he really?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:You mean just like, yeah, he just can't get a passport?
Guest:I mean, it's a whole thing.
Guest:I think he's in the clear now.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:He's a good guy.
Marc:So your dad migrated from Jews in New York to Texas?
Guest:To Texas.
Guest:There's Jews in Dallas.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, there's Jews in Texas.
Marc:The Texas Jews, we call them.
Guest:But there's not a lot of them.
Guest:And I don't think growing up, you didn't feel part of it.
Marc:So did he move there with your mom?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, my parents, I was born in New York City, and my parents are New Yorkers, and then when I was like eight months old, we moved to Dallas.
Guest:Oh, so your whole life.
Guest:My whole life.
Guest:I wish I could say born and raised, but I kind of like that I was born in New York.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, you got to.
Guest:I always thought you were from New York.
Marc:I was born in New Jersey.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Another state people love to hate.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:It's actually a very pretty state.
Marc:It's a great state, and a lot of good things come from New Jersey.
Marc:New Jersey is like the heartland in a way for rock and roll and a lot of stuff.
Marc:Bruce Springsteen.
Guest:And the other one with the three songs.
Guest:Bon Jovi.
Marc:Yes, Bon Jovi.
Guest:And that's it, right?
Marc:Yeah, that's enough.
Guest:That's enough.
Guest:That's something.
Guest:That's enough.
Marc:But did you have like family in New York?
Marc:Did you have a connection to at least you could go to see your grandparents or something?
Guest:We would go.
Guest:We would go visit my aunt and uncles and my grandma lived there for a while, my aunts and uncles, and then they moved here.
Guest:What I always think is so weird.
Marc:They moved to California?
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:To Dallas?
Guest:No, to Dallas.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Well.
Marc:They wanted to be close to you?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:My parents got divorced.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then my mom's parents had moved.
Guest:Like everyone moved the whole mishpochah, as they'll call it, moved to Dallas.
Guest:I always think it's so weird when you look at a family's attempt to exist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how that dissipates throughout time.
Guest:Like you have your parents and they were your age ones, my age, I guess.
Guest:They were young ones.
Guest:It's weird, right?
Guest:And they did the best they could.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then it didn't work out.
Guest:And just all the things that befall those efforts.
Guest:Does that make sense?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're being very diplomatic and mature about this.
Guest:Well, I just think, like, my aunt, for example.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Your father's sister?
Guest:My father's sister.
Guest:My dad's family has, like, the dorkiest names.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:His name's Fred, Arthur, Jerry, Lois, Thelma.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:Like, the worst names.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, the kind of names an immigrant gives to their children because they don't know they're dorky.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or they wanted to be American sounding.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Better than Jacob, Judith.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just at least, I mean, I guess it was other time.
Guest:But I always think about like my dad, so he lived here and my aunt Lois, I didn't, she was nice and she was married to my uncle Cliff who's a piece of shit and they lived in Florida and we would visit them and once in a while and then they lived in Long Island and like these are just memories you have.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then one day my aunt got sick.
Guest:and my uncle cliff without telling anyone just decided to move the whole family to dallas thinking that my dad would like help take care of it right and then she died like three months later oh it's sad it's what it's but it's weird because like that's like a chunk of your life and your family gone no one talks about it she's got kids but like they were not really communicative it's just so weird to see a whole branch of a family crumble off yeah and you didn't see them anymore
Guest:I saw them when they were kids, and I don't live in Dallas now.
Marc:But you didn't grow up with them, kind of?
Marc:It happened later.
Guest:And they're much younger than me.
Guest:They're like 11 years younger than me.
Marc:Oh, it's so sad.
Guest:It's just weird.
Marc:Well, yeah, I mean, it's very hard to sort of assess.
Marc:Like, my mother was 22 when she had me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:It's crazy.
Marc:Were your parents young?
Guest:No, my mom, I think, was 32 when she got married.
Marc:That's reasonable.
Guest:It's reasonable.
Marc:My parents are a different generation.
Guest:are they baby boomers yeah yeah they would definitely be the well they're old baby boomers oh my mom's like 60 she's gonna kill me 60 something 67 but yours are baby she's a baby boomer my dad's younger than my mom i think my my parents are like the generation right before maybe so between the greatest generation the baby boomer exactly what was there that the almost baby boomers just like still kind of feeling reeling from the depression yeah
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:But no, but it's so weird to think your parents as kids.
Marc:I still have a hard time being empathetic.
Marc:I think it's really sort of what we're saying here.
Marc:Like, how come your parents, what was the divorce?
Marc:Messi?
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:I was seven, but like whatever.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Were they just across town from each other?
Guest:When they got a divorce?
Marc:Well, I mean, did they live in Dallas?
Marc:Everyone lived in Dallas?
Guest:My dad moved away.
Guest:He did?
Guest:My dad got an apartment, which was cool because he always had Fresca and we didn't have soda in my house.
Guest:I always had soda.
Guest:Because when you get a divorce, dad will buy you all the junk food.
Marc:Yeah, just so you'll hang out.
Guest:And just so you're happy.
Guest:And he doesn't care.
Guest:He's a man.
Guest:What's he going to buy you special lactate and stuff?
Guest:He doesn't care.
Guest:And then my dad and my stepmom moved to Connecticut.
Guest:And then I got to spend some summers there.
Marc:What part?
Guest:Stanford.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Like a nice part of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like it had a nice yard.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So he left.
Marc:He left.
Marc:So he's not in Dallas anymore.
Guest:He moved back.
What?
Guest:Moved back from my brother who needed like a father figure as we- Gotta help that kid?
Guest:Gotta do something.
Marc:Well, that's fucking selfless of him.
Guest:I mean, who knows?
Guest:Who knows the real reason?
Guest:But I mean, my brother then left my house and went to go live with my dad.
Guest:So I kind of became like an only child.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:My brother was like a couple blocks away.
Marc:You were with your mom?
Guest:It was my mom, my stepdad.
Marc:How's that guy?
Guest:He's the best.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Randy's great.
Marc:And how's your stepmom?
Guest:She's great, too.
Guest:I really lucked out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, they both are really lovely people.
Marc:And does your mom's husband have kids?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And your dad's wife has kids?
Guest:Well, they had kids.
Guest:My dad and his wife had kids together.
Marc:Okay, so you have half-brothers.
Guest:Yeah, and my stepdad had three kids from her period.
Guest:I mean, they're older than me.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:But we don't all get together.
Guest:Like, we took...
Guest:There was like one or two family vacations with my stepdad and his kids, but for the most part, it was just me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like siblings if I wanted them, like rent a sibling.
Marc:So you grew up mostly with your mom?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In Dallas?
Marc:In Dallas.
Marc:Now let me try to project a personality on you.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You're very entertaining and full of energy.
Marc:You had to have been a jock, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:so here's why it's a complicated question because i had a very not bizarre but it wasn't a it was atypical i uh i went to a private school i went to a very competitive college preparatory private school yeah so it was only 100 kids in our grade so in your high school itself there was about 400 kids yeah so while we were really competitive and we played football and we had sports and did all that stuff you played football
Guest:i played football our school because everyone thinks texas they're like was it like friday night lights well our sports meant everything to us we weren't in a conference with like huge high schools right so and we didn't have you're in like the the the rich kid private school conference it's called the southwestern preparatory conference and we took it very seriously so while it was like almost like a microcosm of experiences right there were no there were no one got beaten up because everyone was there on their own academic merit no one was there because of sports and
Guest:for the most part we would bus kids in but you had to hang we did it was a little racist really but it but it was fine um you give kids a chance and so uh so i played sports in private school you get to play yeah you get to be on the team you may not be on varsity but you get to be on one of the teams right so i always played and then i played lacrosse when i was on varsity because it was a brand new sport lacrosse
Marc:I played lacrosse.
Guest:I played lacrosse and I swam.
Marc:With the little netted baskets.
Marc:And you got to move it back and forth.
Guest:You got to move it back and forth.
Guest:The inertia keeps it in.
Marc:And you got that?
Guest:I got that.
Guest:I was defense, so I didn't have to.
Guest:I hated running.
Guest:I stayed by the goal.
Marc:So you're tough.
Guest:It's a tough sport.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I very much enjoyed being aggressive.
Marc:And you were a swimmer?
Guest:I swam.
Marc:What was your stroke?
Guest:My stroke.
Marc:that was mine too yeah yeah you swam i did what's your split time i don't remember i don't either i had i know all i know is that like i didn't do it at school i did it at in part of a swim club okay so so i competed well no i don't know if i was good i had a b time in the 50 breast never an a time never an a time no but i did all right you were in the second heat yeah you know i've never been able to function competitively
Marc:I think for swimming- Very life or death for me.
Marc:Losing is just terrifying.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It is.
Marc:But I think people who learn how to play sports can handle losing better.
Guest:First of all, I enjoy- I hate losing more than I like winning.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Does that make sense?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you look, especially in comedy, most comics didn't play sports.
Guest:And while I wasn't winning any awards and scholarships, it still teaches you you're a little more well-rounded than the others.
Marc:I completely agree with that.
Marc:And I've said many times on this show that if you have kids, just get them into some sort of sport so they can understand losing.
Guest:You can understand losing.
Guest:You can understand what it's like to be a part of a team.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:In terms of swimming, you were never going to be good at swimming unless you started from a young age.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The kids that we started, they were all like, oh, I did a swim club when I was 10, and it sticks with them.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That's a skill you have to hone from a very young age.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was never good at backstroke.
Guest:that's in it it's only for like meaty tall women yeah that's a that's not the way the body should move i don't know what nazi invented the backstroke to get from point a to point b couldn't do it i'd always i'd always turn over before i got to the edge and fucking get disqualified yes the worst they tell you they're like you just know where the edge is because your hand hits it i'm like my hand is going hurt like 15 miles an hour yeah i'm gonna really break something no i didn't i fucked it all up yeah so you're lacrosse and swimming i did those pretty jockey
Guest:they're the sports I didn't play field hockey I didn't basketball was tiring and I tried I went to KU my freshman year before I transferred to Emerson KU what's that University of Kansas really yeah and I thought when I got there because I was like school's a piece of cake I'll play some sports right I walked onto their like lacrosse team it was like a club team right
Guest:Um, because they didn't have a school team and I played rugby for one week.
Guest:So I did both of those.
Guest:Rugby, these are tough sports.
Guest:That's why I stopped.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Those girls are like corn fed, like six feet tall, like fifth year seniors.
Guest:Like we're going to block with our necks.
Guest:I'm like, I'm not doing this for free.
Guest:And then lacrosse, I remember I showed up hungover to one practice and we're running drills and I was like, I don't need this.
Guest:I'm not getting any money for the sport.
Guest:I don't need this like to play anything.
Guest:There's no not helping with tuition.
Guest:Why am I killing myself to play with a bunch of lesbians?
Guest:It's so weird.
Guest:I quit.
Marc:How Jewish were you brought up?
Guest:I had a bat mitzvah.
Marc:Yeah, and that was it?
Guest:I had confirmation.
Guest:I went to Sunday school.
Guest:I went to Israel when I was 16.
Marc:God, you did the whole thing.
Guest:I did the whole thing, but... How was Israel for you?
Marc:What's your dog doing?
Marc:What's the dog's name?
Guest:The dog's name is Blanche.
Marc:Hey, Blanche.
Marc:Hi, Blanche.
Guest:I was just wondering what's going on.
Marc:Wait, you're one of these people that carries your dog around.
Marc:You accessorize with a dog.
Guest:No, hold on.
Guest:I don't carry the dog.
Guest:You've got cats, and I prefer that my dog not dismember your cats in your own home.
Marc:Oh, you're overestimating your dog and underestimating my cats.
Guest:That one with the one eye.
Marc:The gray cat, La Fonda, would rip this dog apart.
Marc:La Fonda!
Marc:Would rip him apart, her.
Guest:Blanche?
Marc:When did you start doing this dog thing?
Guest:I got the dog when I started touring.
Guest:And I was like, I'm gonna tour by myself.
Marc:You brought the dog on the road?
Marc:Is this a service dog?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It is?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:How do you... How do I get the letter from, like, a doctor?
Guest:That's it.
That's it.
Marc:Isn't a service dog just a dog after a certain point?
Guest:It's total bullshit.
Guest:But what I believe is even more bullshit is that the airline charges you at all to take your pet on the plane.
Guest:I have a whole theory about this because people get very angry that it's a service dog because people have service pigs.
Guest:Like the whole thing's out of control.
Guest:An airline will charge you.
Guest:Is there a service pig?
Guest:Oh, that was like a whole thing on the news a couple months ago.
Marc:I am so out of the loop with the important topics.
Guest:they're just like clickable headlines like on the side of like gawker service pig the airline I have an issue not with rules but the airlines will charge you 100 to 150 dollars to bring a pet okay what if you put it in a box and put it in cargo
Guest:You don't do that.
Marc:No one does that anymore, right?
Guest:Unless you're shipping a horse.
Marc:Right.
Guest:You don't do that.
Marc:You can ship a horse?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I do it all the time.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:No, they put them in the horse carriers.
Guest:I think that's been sort of frowned upon.
Marc:Before you get all up on your soapbox about the justice of charging for a dog, I want to know what the prescription for this fucking dog is.
Guest:What do you mean?
Marc:Like what did the doctor write you?
Guest:It is like a, the language is something like diagnosed with a low grade anxiety disorder.
Guest:And this dog is like, this patient is under my care and this dog is part of her therapy.
Marc:A low-grade anxiety disorder.
Guest:I'm paraphrasing low-grade anxiety, but it has to do with anxiety.
Marc:Generalized anxiety.
Guest:Generalized, because you don't want to assign, you don't want to give me something that, like, if I run for mayor one day, they'll be like, it says on here that you're bipolar.
Marc:You're schizophrenic and you need a dog to talk to.
Guest:So, I mean, I do.
Guest:So she gave me something really, like, we all have anxiety.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Have you ever been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder?
Guest:On the paper.
Guest:No, but I mean... I've never seen a psychiatrist.
Marc:Never seen a psychiatrist.
Marc:You're so fucking well-adjusted, Eliza.
Marc:I don't know about that.
Marc:What do you mean?
Marc:I don't know about that.
Marc:You're just like grounded and fucking jockey and doing the fucking thing.
Guest:It's not at all.
Guest:I'll tell you something.
Marc:I want to know how you're fucked up.
Guest:I'll tell you right now.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:This hit me this morning.
Guest:I have this thing where I go on dates with people and I immediately don't want to see them after we have an intimate experience.
Guest:How intimate?
Guest:Not sex.
Guest:Not even sex.
Marc:Just like making it on the car?
Marc:Yeah, I just- Like dry humping?
Marc:Handjob?
Marc:Oral?
Marc:What are we talking about?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Okay, fine.
Guest:I think also because they annoy me, I just, I get turned off very quickly, and it's not a rational thing, but I just, if I don't get a text that I like or an answer that I like or I think they're being rude, I'm like, fine, later, bye.
Guest:One time I blocked a number because a guy said something that I didn't like.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And I was like, I don't want to deal with you ever.
Marc:You said that?
Marc:Or you just blocked him?
Guest:I just blocked him.
Marc:And this is after one date?
Guest:We went on a couple dates.
Guest:I've told this story on my own podcast, but I will say this.
Guest:What's your own podcast called?
Guest:It's called Truth and Eliza.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So I'm just saying, like, I'm aware of the fact that I've told this story.
Guest:We went out four times.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Lovely dates.
Guest:Cool guy.
Guest:Whatever.
Marc:What do you do?
Guest:He's in real estate.
Guest:And just to speed things along for funsies, I was like... Real estate.
Marc:Real estate wasn't a fucking red flag.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:Real estate.
Guest:But it's not like douchey real estate.
Guest:Like I couldn't be a personal trainer, so now I'm in real estate.
Guest:It's like legitimate.
Guest:I didn't ask.
Marc:Oh, so you're saying it's high-end douchey real estate.
Marc:You mean it's not desperate real estate.
Guest:He had other hobbies.
Marc:It's just douchey real estate.
Guest:Real estate, personal trainer, and jewelry maker.
Guest:All three of those say to me the first option didn't work out.
Marc:It used to be travel agent, yoga instructor, Pilates instructor.
Guest:That just says acting didn't work.
Marc:Sure, but that's okay.
Marc:That's okay.
Marc:Some of those people are very helpful.
Guest:He was fine.
Marc:But?
Guest:But, so I, whatever, I'm very okay with my body.
Guest:I sent him not a topless picture, but like a half, like a shirt, like underboob kind of picture.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Just to be like, hey.
Guest:Look, here are my boobs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I can't get over this to this day.
Guest:He wrote back, me likey that picture a long time.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I almost threw my phone in the toilet.
Marc:What a mistake for the non-comedic personality to try to be funny.
Guest:It's not, but it's hacky.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:If you're taking that from Full Metal Jacket, it's hacky.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I didn't answer.
Guest:And then he wrote, herro.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Herro?
Marc:Herro.
Marc:Come on.
Guest:And I couldn't, so I didn't answer anything.
Guest:And then the next day he wrote, why you no like me?
Guest:And I was like, why are you talking in Asian baby talk?
Marc:I guess with the text, he didn't quite understand that he was bombing.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:You couldn't hear the cacophonous silence.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And that's also, isn't that like something that was said in relation to a prostitute?
Marc:Like, me love you long time?
Guest:Yeah, it was a Vietnamese prostitute.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So that had other connotations.
Guest:Just so many things.
Guest:I was like, I don't want to see where this is going to go.
Marc:Ugh.
Marc:Well, what was the last long-term relationship you had?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Come on.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Why does everybody want to know these things?
Marc:I don't.
Marc:I never talk about this.
Marc:I'm trying to find out what makes you human.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:We should have done a pre-interview.
Guest:What makes me relatable.
Marc:I know it makes you relatable, but you do a lot of material about your experience dating about it, about like it relates and a lot of women can relate to it.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But what's the longest relationship you ever had?
Guest:I've been in a couple of year long relationships.
Marc:Year long.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the last one was the last long one was about six months.
Guest:And I ended that in March.
Marc:How'd you end that one?
Guest:I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.
Guest:This isn't working.
Guest:That was one of the slower, more adult, drawn out.
Guest:We broke up and then we hung out.
Guest:It's hard, right?
Guest:That one was just because he was so available and so good looking.
Guest:But ultimately.
Marc:Those are horrible complaints.
Marc:How did you live through it?
Guest:I didn't want to hear his answers to questions.
Oh, really?
Guest:Could you date like a playmate?
Guest:Could Marc Maron date a playmate?
Guest:No.
Marc:I've been hypnotized by irrational beauty before.
Guest:And then what happens after the hypnosis wears off?
Marc:Well, what ultimately happens for me when I dated, you know, well, I married her.
Marc:I became... How'd that work out?
Marc:Well, it didn't, but it wasn't me.
Marc:Like I became very possessive.
Marc:I became, you know, very sort of like I don't know if it's obsessive, but I didn't I didn't understand relationship, you know, like that.
Marc:There's like another person there that has it's for real sometimes.
Guest:And I think the older you get and the more I don't want to say hardened, but the wider your eyes are open to the reality of situations.
Guest:Some dude scolded me yesterday, not dating him.
Guest:He's like, you never asked me what I'm up to or what I'm doing.
Guest:I'm like, we're not dating.
Guest:I don't care what you're doing.
Guest:And I think sometimes I display male traits.
Guest:And he's like, you need to just be more open.
Guest:I'm like, don't you think women get tired of being vulnerable all the time?
Marc:Wait, how about a little?
Guest:Ask me about my dog.
Marc:How about a little?
Guest:You have to earn it.
Guest:not you how long does it take to earn uh the openness yeah you ever put your hand out you know you see a dog and you put your hand out and you let him smell your hand yeah it's like that okay but if you're coming at me with like lines and weird like you've in your as a comic you have to like suss people out like some people are me likey long time like i don't want to tell you my deepest secrets look what you said to me you fucking maniac
Marc:Well, I think maniac's a little much.
Marc:Maniac?
Marc:Maybe bore or... Bore?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But here's the other trade-off.
Guest:So you can spend your life analyzing these things and looking for imperfections and all that stuff.
Guest:The other side, I was out last night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was talking to a very attractive man at a bar.
Marc:Did you go to bars?
Guest:I went out.
Guest:Jody Miller came with me to feature in Nashville.
Guest:So we went out last night because it's fun.
Guest:But for the most part, I don't go out when I'm on the road.
Marc:What, you just do a one-nighter?
Guest:No, we were there the weekend.
Guest:At Zaney's?
Guest:At Zaney's.
Marc:It's great, right?
Guest:I love it.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:I love Nashville.
Guest:I love Nashville.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love country music.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So what's weird is like you come off stage, right, and you're a rock star, and people want your picture, and they bring you gifts, and it's like this amazing thing.
Guest:And the club, I wanted to go to this club called Acme.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So Zaney's called, and they were like, oh, we went ahead, we called over for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No problem.
Guest:There'll be a line.
Guest:Just go to the front of it and say who you are.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was like, cool.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I don't give things chances.
Guest:I'll go.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I need special treatment, too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to wait in line.
Guest:I don't either.
Marc:I won't go anywhere.
Guest:Just as a girl, I don't want to wait in line.
Marc:I just won't go.
Marc:I can't get to the front of the line usually.
Marc:I can get on lists occasionally, but I don't like it.
Guest:You can get in.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:You interviewed the president.
Marc:Let's get serious.
Marc:I'll drop that.
Guest:You should.
Marc:Bring this little bubble of things.
Marc:Yeah, my little glass dome.
Guest:And I walk up to the guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just went, hi, we're from... And not even using my name because I didn't expect him to know who I was.
Guest:I went, hi, we're from Zany's.
Guest:And he wouldn't even look at me.
Guest:He goes, don't know.
Guest:And I was like, oh, God, this is so embarrassing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, we're the comedians from Zany's.
Guest:And they called.
Guest:He's like, don't know what you're talking about.
Guest:I go, really?
Guest:The word Zany's means nothing to you.
Guest:And the anger is bubbling up inside me.
Guest:Especially as a comic, you're like, what is the meanest thing I can say to you to make you want to kill yourself when you get home?
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:You fuckstick.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:with like a like a control fantasy anyways I just went okay that was it you didn't say Eliza Schlesinger no I didn't want him to know that I was the one cursing his name as I walked away and I just my tail between my legs we just went to another bar what was I supposed to say well this anger to me is very compelling I was angry I know because but then I really thought about that anger later you just sucked it up come on all right so I dump it
Guest:I came up with a couple of insults in my head, and then I felt good.
Marc:Wrote them down, made note of those lines.
Guest:You know, you're attractive, but in a big city, you'd be about a four.
Marc:Yeah, good, good.
Marc:Nice one.
Guest:Hey, when you're coaching your CrossFit class tomorrow, hope you think of your choices.
Marc:Oh, zing.
Marc:Anyway, I didn't say any of that.
Marc:So what happened at that bar?
Marc:So you said you were out at the bar, you had a few cocktails.
Guest:Well, my point is, so you can spend your life analyzing relationships and looking for someone to mentally stimulate you.
Guest:That's what you do with your act.
Right.
Guest:Yeah, but it's very hard to separate the two.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:If it's an authentic act.
Guest:Of course, you understand that.
Marc:Yeah, so what I'm saying is you can spend your life and you do.
Guest:I try not to.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Really try.
Guest:My point is I just end up talking to somebody, very attractive, army.
Guest:He's from the army, infantry, obviously, because he was retarded, but so hot.
Guest:And I remember thinking...
Guest:I remember thinking, like, this is the other choice.
Guest:You could just be the girl with the hot boyfriend and you probably have great sex, but there's not much else there except for, like, your love of, like, Fridays.
Marc:Could you do that?
Marc:No.
Marc:I don't know why you go to Fridays.
Marc:I mean, there are, like, and let's acknowledge that the word retarded is not a great word to use.
Marc:I understand.
Guest:It's a good word.
Marc:I know it's a good word, but I choose not to use it, but you're fine with it.
Marc:He's not smart.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But have you ever done that?
Marc:Have you ever dated a dude that was... I never talk about dating, and I don't know why.
Marc:We don't have to talk about it.
Marc:I like talking about it, because I've never done it in my life.
Guest:Dated?
Marc:No, usually I meet somebody in a way that they know me.
Marc:Don't close up on me.
Guest:No, no, I'm not.
Guest:I'm not.
Guest:I'm agreeing with you.
Marc:So that's why I'm just justifying talking about it.
Marc:But you can't seem to maintain a relationship for more than a year.
Guest:But I don't think that's on... And you have a very low tolerance.
Marc:But the low tolerance thing... But you're quick and you're smart and you're agile mentally, physically.
Guest:I don't think men enjoy these things.
Marc:Maybe that's true.
Guest:But that's not, you know, and to say I can't maintain it.
Guest:I dated one guy who turned out to be a sociopath.
Guest:I couldn't.
Marc:Really?
Guest:For real.
Marc:Or are you just throwing that word around?
Guest:No, for real.
Guest:What were the indicators?
Guest:I did a, this is not happening about it.
Guest:I wrote an article about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Wrote a screenplay about it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Really got to get it out.
Guest:Like a real one.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So.
Marc:No conscience.
Marc:No capacity for empathy.
Guest:Ice cold.
Guest:Everything.
Marc:Always from the beginning?
Yeah.
Guest:At first, it was sort of this like Downton Abbey-ish sort of area that I just kind of like held back.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:To me, he was smart and he was almost regal and just very cutting and witty.
Guest:And I appreciated that.
Guest:And he was very kind to me.
Guest:He wasn't like if I fell, he would be like, are you okay?
Guest:But then it turned out he had lied about everything.
Guest:But to have something like that happen...
Guest:you know that takes a chunk out of you oh yeah and so a trust chunk well but everybody walks around and they want women to be open and vulnerable and forever just like ripping their hearts open like who wants to come on in but like stuff like that takes time to heal and you're only in control of how it manifests itself to a certain extent right so i really went out of my way not to take it out on anyone right that being said you know if you beat a dog enough eventually it's not going to want to like come out of its corner sure so
Marc:The heart can only take so much.
Guest:For real.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So there's that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, so you meet these guys and this is the first.
Marc:Where do you meet guys?
Marc:Are you on Tinder?
Marc:No.
Marc:God.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:Do you do a J day?
Marc:No.
Marc:Were you too much of a celebrity to do that?
Guest:Really?
Guest:I'm just famous enough.
Guest:I'm just famous enough that I don't get invited to like a Rolex gifting suite, but it just fucks with my life enough that it's a little difficult.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I'm not like on a red carpet.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:I'm the same place.
Guest:But I just started a dating app.
Guest:I'm not going to mention the app, but you have to like apply to be on it.
Guest:And I did it because at a certain point, you can't keep dating people that you know and you can't ask your friends.
Guest:Nobody really cares if you date anyone.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I took it into my own hands.
Guest:So it's the first time in my life where I'm actually going on dates with strangers versus like a friend setup or something.
Guest:I'm enjoying it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I like having men to text and talk to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you suss it out and you see who you like and you figure it out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But honestly, if... Because I know this is the podcast where people open up.
Guest:I...
Guest:People have given me this feedback a lot lately where they're like, wow, you got a lot of rules and you are very black and white.
Guest:And I don't realize it.
Guest:And I think the older I get, the harder it is to separate being a comedian from your actual... From being a person?
Guest:From being a person, but I look at your act and you and they're very similar.
Guest:It comes from you.
Guest:It's not like you're up there with a banjo singing about vaginas.
Marc:Not anymore.
Guest:Right, not anymore.
Guest:Didn't work out.
Marc:Didn't work out.
Guest:So it's hard to turn that off.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Especially...
Guest:You know, if one person criticizes you, then it's them.
Guest:But if enough people saying it and I'm like sitting here, my head is really, I'm like, what can I do to soften something that I don't even realize is coming out as harsh?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I mean, it's also weird too when you meet people and they know what you do or they Google you or they go watch what they're expecting or how do you know when people are, like you never know if people are like you because of your act or whatever.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But also I think part of it being, I hate to talk about the female comedy thing because I've had pretty good success with it.
Guest:You know, you're on the defense a lot.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And then so the question is, if you're not on the defense, what's going to happen?
Guest:You're like, well, someone's going to pull one over on me or someone's going to say something shitty.
Guest:I mean, I have memories of walking into green rooms and no one would look at me that I hadn't met.
Guest:Because male comics can be pieces of shit.
Guest:But, you know, years of that, it takes a toll on a person in terms of rigidity.
Guest:And so, you know, you try to leave it all on the stage and you try to leave it at a comedy club.
Guest:But just that sort of armor that is accrued over time from doing something this difficult.
Marc:It's it's there.
Guest:I think that's there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But no, but like you're finding a lot of success in a business that's hard.
Marc:And I think a lot of it has to do with having those experiences, walking into those green rooms with dudes that probably, you know, some of them over the course of your life aren't even funny enough to have the attitude that they have.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It is sort of a boys club.
Marc:There's no way around that.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And, you know, once you get to a certain level, no one who, for the most part, the people that are my peers and more successful than me, they're not dicks.
Guest:You're not a dick.
Guest:Jim Jeffries is not a dick.
Guest:Joe Rogan's not a dick.
Guest:Because with success comes, you know, you kind of let your belly down a little bit.
Marc:Yeah, you did it.
Marc:You made it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, you made your bones.
Marc:You paid your dues.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're doing well.
Marc:So, you know, there's respect.
Marc:But it's a comics respect.
Marc:It's not like, that chick's all right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You work fucking hard.
Guest:You work hard.
Guest:And so, I don't know.
Guest:I don't have a...
Guest:I love my job and I take dates to the comedy store all the time.
Marc:You do?
Guest:All the time.
Guest:You're going to have to see the act at some point.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I'm not ashamed of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you may as well come, but I never say you have to.
Marc:And then by the third one, they're like, don't you do any new jokes?
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:It's the worst.
Marc:Whenever I bring my girl to the club, I'm like, I'm going to do a few of the ones you've seen.
Guest:It's the act.
Guest:It's the act.
Guest:Got to work out the act.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think it's so cute when they want to participate.
Guest:And they're like, you know what would be funny?
Guest:You think that's cute?
Marc:I think it's cute.
Marc:My initial reaction is like, yeah, yeah, okay.
Guest:Well, what they'll do, I've noticed, and by the way, you don't have to come see my act, but I'll be like, I've got a set at eight.
Guest:I can meet you for dinner before or after.
Guest:I don't drink before I go on stage, so if you want to get shit-faced, we can do it after.
Guest:It's always a thing.
Marc:I imagine most of them would go with after.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:The older I get, the more I'm going to be up early.
Guest:I'm like, really?
Guest:The thought of me taking my shirt off and making out with you half drunk doesn't appeal to you.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:All of them got to be up early.
Guest:And they every men pass out.
Guest:I don't know what this is.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:Once I hit 30, you make conversation with someone over text, no answer.
Guest:Sorry, I fell asleep.
Guest:I'm like, this is like a diagnosed issue.
Guest:Passing out, you better not be driving a vehicle.
Guest:But they'll come, and then after they'll be like, I noticed who, like they'll look around the room to like help out.
Guest:They'll be like, I noticed who was laughing at this joke.
Guest:And I think it's endearing, and I think it's a cute way to involve yourself in something you don't know much about.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So I've never.
Marc:And something you can never do.
Guest:Ever.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Know it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so you went to Kansas University?
Guest:University of Kansas.
Marc:University of Kansas for a year?
Guest:Yeah, and I transferred to Emerson in Boston.
Marc:Emerson, the comedian school.
Guest:Yeah, the fighting comic.
Guest:That's our mascot.
Marc:Is it really?
Guest:It's not.
Guest:It's a lion.
Marc:I knew a lot of people went to Emerson.
Marc:Is it still a good school for what you wanted?
Marc:What did you study?
Guest:I was a film major.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Did you make little movies?
Guest:I had a student film I had to make.
Marc:How was that received?
Guest:We got a good grade.
Guest:We had a lead.
Guest:The lead was like a 40-year-old man.
Guest:He dropped out the day before.
Marc:Local Boston actor.
Guest:We should have put a mustache on someone who was like 19.
Guest:Because to us, mustaches were mature at the time.
Guest:And then we were like, fuck it.
Guest:We'll all wear mustaches.
Guest:It's whatever.
Guest:I don't think the film teachers there give a shit as long as you do the project.
Marc:Were there any old comics teaching there when you were there?
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:So what happened?
Marc:So you didn't want to pursue film?
Marc:You finished Emerson?
Marc:Then what happened?
Guest:I don't... Well, I moved... I did a semester at C. So I graduated early.
Guest:My mom would make me take for like your gen ed.
Guest:She would make me take... When I would go home to Dallas in the summer, I would take my gen eds at like a community college.
Guest:What are those?
Guest:like just like little bullshit requirements like like a fight like an arts one so like I took like aerobics because it takes one credit but that's a couple thousand dollars you save your parents right does that make sense yeah so I graduated early I did a semester at sea so you go on a boat around the world with 600 other kids really yeah how was that it was amazing
Guest:They did a season of The Real World on that boat.
Guest:Theo Vaughn was on that one.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:It was like two years before me or something.
Guest:So you stop in like 14 countries.
Guest:You get to see the world.
Guest:Hammered, but you get to see the world.
Guest:You get to be drunk at the Taj Mahal like an idiot.
Marc:All sweaty and hungover everywhere.
Guest:I was so sick you were nauseous in so many parts of the world so at so many holy sites and then you come home a little bit heavier than you planned and I did the Emerson LA program it's famous for you move to LA and you Emerson houses you and you take your last set of requirements at the Emerson LA Center and you intern in the industry and that's why Emerson is like so prevalent in the entertainment industry right oh I see so where'd you intern I interned at the now defunct United Artists which is a subsidiary of MGM
Marc:United Artists?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:It's gone?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:Or it was if it might have come back.
Guest:It was in Century City.
Marc:That's so sad because that was one of the first studios.
Marc:When did the comedy start?
Marc:When that bug hit you?
Guest:So I always did improv in high school.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Improv.
Guest:I was on the improv troupe.
Marc:In Dallas?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was always funny.
Guest:You're always funny.
Guest:People ask that.
Guest:You don't just become funny.
Guest:You are funny.
Marc:I've seen some people become funny.
Guest:Really?
Marc:In comedy?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like hone it, but they always had something.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:I guess there are people I started out with where I'm like, how is anyone ever going to laugh at this?
Marc:And then somehow they click in because there's a difference between being naturally funny and learning how to be on stage.
Marc:And there are some people that I don't think could even talk to other people that became funny on stage.
Guest:but i guess you were always there's always an inkling there sure you want to do it yeah i knew i was going to make people laugh for a living so of course i'm in the suburbs of dallas texas growing up it's watching in living color and watching saturday night live and kids in the hall and stuff like that yeah so i was always into characters yeah and i did improv you did characters like i always liked watching characters right and i liked sketch yeah i love sketch and i would write sketches and we would film them in my living room yeah we would do like we would recreate saturday night live sketches really
Guest:And all my girlfriends, you know, they want to be lawyers and doctors, but they would come over and I would write them.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And we would do, like, Cajun Boy and, like, other episodes.
Marc:Do you still have these tapes?
Guest:On a, yeah, Hi8.
Marc:Digitize those fuckers.
Marc:Put them up on your site.
Marc:This is when I was younger.
Guest:It was, like, blackmail.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so we did that, and then when I got to Emerson, I was in a sketch troupe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were, like, the cool kids, which was my first experience with that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then when I got to L.A., I had done a one-man show at school.
Guest:That part's boring.
Marc:What was that about?
Guest:It was just, but it was... Lacrosse?
No.
Guest:It was just sort of whatever you're going to talk about in college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, if you weren't molested, then there's not a lot to talk about.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But that was my.
Guest:And I've said this before.
Guest:It was sort of my first foray from thinking in terms of a dialogue.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Just a monologue.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I took a couple of those jokes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I got to L.A., I was like, I'm going to do stand up.
Guest:This is the next part in an evolution.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I I did it.
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:When I moved to LA?
Guest:21.
Guest:21.
Marc:Where'd you do stand-up the first time?
Guest:Room 5.
Marc:I don't know what that is.
Guest:Above Amalfi on La Brea.
Guest:Oh, I do know that room.
Guest:With that giant glass 5.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I did that.
Guest:I think I had like a herpes joke and a traffic joke.
Marc:Classic.
Guest:And a pizza joke.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Pizza joke was okay.
Marc:Got everything covered.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And I did that and...
Guest:Then they came up to me and the guy that was running the room and he was like, you're funny.
Guest:Would you like to come back like next week or something?
Guest:And then I just, without any goal and without any knowledge of the workings of a comedy store, I never even heard of the Laugh Factory.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Never even been to the improv.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I just started gathering spots and just working hard, not toward anything.
Marc:That's my alt rooms.
Guest:Not even, yeah, I guess they'd have to be.
Marc:Mikes.
Guest:Mikes.
Guest:And then the improv was the first club to give me a chance and put me up and send me out to feature.
Marc:Where'd you go?
Guest:I would go to like the local, like the, like Brea, Ontario, and it was always for black comics.
Marc:So, oh really?
Guest:So I would open or feature for black comics.
Marc:For black audiences?
Guest:Black audience.
Guest:Oh, very black audiences.
Marc:Really?
Marc:That was how you sort of like got, you honed your thing?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Your loud thing?
Guest:My first, my loud thing, my no fear thing.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Black audience will let you know very quickly.
Marc:Who, like, who were you opening for?
Guest:I opened for Mark Curry.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He probably would never remember it.
Guest:Bill Bellamy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My first thing I ever won was the thing called the MySpace So You Think You're Funny contest.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:And you send in a video of your stand-up, and I won.
Guest:But my prize was getting to open for Bruce Bruce at the House of Blues.
Marc:Bruce Bruce!
Marc:He was on my TV show.
Guest:And there's no way he would remember it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, whoever came.
Marc:Sweet guy, though.
Guest:Yeah, fair enough.
Guest:I mean, I didn't...
Guest:i was not a part of the experience that night mark curry was a good comic too he was in a long time he does a lot of improv at the end of his set and he's a giant man and he was really nice yeah um bill bellamy smooth bill bellamy was cool and then he hosted my season of last comic standing so that was nice and then i remember my first gig where they flew me somewhere was a club called morty's you ever been there
Guest:in indianapolis i think so yeah and they sent me to i didn't go i never been there i know it yeah they're like known for their pork chops or something they sent me to feature for a comic named todd lynn todd i know todd he's dead he's dead he had a baby arm yeah remember he had a baby arm yeah only todd had a lot of problems he was really hard to deal with but i liked him he wasn't rude to me but he definitely had a chip on his shoulder definitely
Marc:uh it wasn't warm but i remember i was like i'm in the big times now they flown me here they flew you open for todd lynn todd lynn the cranky bastard he was r.i.p yeah yeah he was uh he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way but i always liked todd it was i saw him before he died and he had lost his eyesight jesus like he oh god it's just like i hadn't seen him in years i saw him in montreal and he couldn't see that's terrible what a horrible slow way to go
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I don't know what exactly happened, but he was tough on you.
Guest:He was tough, and I even heard him at one point muttering something, but I was like, oh, TV show?
Guest:Where's my TV show?
Guest:It all comes from that.
Guest:And in my darkest moments of anger, it all comes down to how you view your own success.
Guest:But then it really comes down to after that how you treat other people once you're done being mad at yourself.
Marc:So you do a big feature set for Todd Lynn, where they flew you to Morty's.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then like, so when did you start working at the store?
Marc:When did all that start happening?
Marc:So you've been doing comedy over a decade?
Guest:Yeah, exactly, almost 10 years.
Guest:Maybe we'll go with 10.
Guest:Maybe I started at like 22 versus 21.
Marc:And you fucking never stop.
Marc:You work hard.
Marc:You work hard.
Marc:Yeah, you do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You wanted to be a comic.
Marc:You weren't like trying to get acting roles.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I have.
Guest:That's the other thing.
Guest:I've auditioned for almost everything.
Guest:Huge movies, test for TV shows all the time.
Guest:But it's in that weird category where I've even had people be like, we're looking for an Eliza Schlesinger type.
Guest:And I'm like, or you could just give it to me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Um, but it's weird.
Guest:My one of the things that I struggle is not the word, but for a comedian, I'm good looking.
Guest:And somehow that works against you.
Guest:And people like each year, like being fat is in or ethnic people or girls that have red hair, you know, and I don't think the world has quite accepted that girls who look normal can be funny versus having like a hook.
Guest:So.
Guest:that seems to be something that I deal with on a regular basis.
Marc:But you did all right with hosting and stuff.
Guest:I hosted, I have a show coming out and I hosted that one, I hosted a dating show, which is when I had my fake hair.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But, you know, we all get our, I don't know.
Marc:Well, what happened with, like, so what was the last comic standing like?
Guest:um like winning it yeah did that change things they gave me a career yeah i'd only been doing it for three years and then i started last comic standing and that like literally you win and you have it is up to you if you want to sink or swim right and i had seen like my friends that had won it were already professional comedians right but you know yeah it gives you a lot of people a second chance
Guest:second chance and for me it was my chance and I just took it and you started headlining at three years started headlining really I took the 45 minutes I had and I was like I'm just gonna make this work yeah and you know there's that's hard it's hard because and to this day I guess I can say this I've built my following solely on stand up which is it's a rough path you know you're not coming to see me because you saw me on a show right you're coming to see me because I've been to your city a couple times and I've like built that audience right that's the exhausting part
Guest:that's old school going back a place two times a year three times a year and that's the only way to do it and you got to have new jokes new jokes and then people they want to know is it going to be new material old material none of your business just buy the ticket yeah yeah um and then the netflix special exponentially grew that business the second one or the first one probably the second one yeah really did it what's that one called freezing hot and it
Marc:What was the first one called?
Guest:Warpaint.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it, you know, I look around and I don't see, sometimes I'll look at club lineups or like a theater lineup for months and I'll be the only girl on there.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And it's just, it's a very gritty existence.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's a...
Marc:What do you mean to live the life of a comic on the road?
Guest:I mean, yeah, you go out and I like it.
Guest:You go out every weekend.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And to the detriment of your social life at times, maybe your love life, you know, other things like that.
Guest:And you're putting in these hours.
Guest:The payoff being you one day hope to have comedy that's like always there.
Guest:Like if I never, if I was only an actress, I'd have to move home.
Guest:I've booked one acting gig ever.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So at the end of the day, I have that and it's never going to go away.
Marc:right no i i know that feeling that's the way i think now yeah like whatever it is i'm still a comic even though like i didn't necessarily get the level of um attention that i got just from doing stand-up and now people come to see my stand-up right because they know me right too well but like when you go to nashville did you draw
Guest:Yeah, it was every show was sold out.
Guest:I've got I'm getting to the point now where shows are sold out weeks in advance.
Marc:Great.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:And it's you say a long time coming.
Guest:That's totally relative.
Guest:But, you know, it really is about putting in the work.
Guest:And I see friends of mine.
Guest:They treat comedy like a social scene.
Guest:And I've never looked at it that way.
Marc:That's the difference between you and them.
Marc:And that's the difference in sometimes between, you know, understanding the job at hand.
Marc:Like, it seems like you have a very practical understanding of it because like now there's a lot of people that are like, I'm a comedian.
Marc:It's like, well, do you work as a comic?
Marc:Not too much.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So what the fuck is that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you're like old school and that like, you know, you know that in order to make a living, you got a headline on the road.
Guest:And in order to be good at it, you know, and comics come up to me.
Guest:I know they come up to you.
Guest:Like, do you have any tips?
Guest:I'm like, you got to get on stage.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to hear that you're right.
Guest:A lot.
Guest:Every night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sometimes with nothing to say.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's like being an athlete.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to go to batting practice.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:And you have to treat it.
Guest:I was talking to someone about this the other day.
Guest:It's cool if your friends are there.
Guest:If you know me at all, you know that I don't hang out at clubs.
Guest:And I'll tell other women, I'll be like, get the fuck out of here.
Guest:You don't want to be at the comedy store at 1 a.m.
Marc:No, something happens at around 11.
Guest:Yeah, people get raped.
Guest:It's like a witching hour.
Marc:The audience gets raped.
Marc:They're exhausted and brain fucked.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:And...
Guest:You know, that's a very special place.
Guest:But in general, you want to hang out with your friends.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:Do the work.
Guest:Leave.
Guest:Don't date the comics.
Guest:Don't hang around.
Guest:And I understand there's a networking aspect that I've totally missed out on.
Guest:I fully get that.
Marc:I've dated comics.
Marc:You dated a comic.
Guest:I dated one.
Marc:You were in that lesson once.
Guest:He was not a problem.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were never in competition with one another.
Yeah.
Marc:But what was the problem with it?
Marc:There was no problem?
Guest:But the problem didn't have to do with stand-up.
Marc:I guess I wasn't trying to pry about your relationship, but did you sense it the way people saw you?
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Guest:I remember one time someone was like, she only won last comic standing because she dated Brett Ernst.
Guest:And I'm like, I can't wait to tell Brett how much pull he has at the network.
Guest:And he's a good guy.
Guest:No, he's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got to do the work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, oh, yeah, I'll see comics.
Guest:What happens is there's classes of comics, right?
Guest:You come up with your class, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it's weird because someone like you, we did La Jolla, I was afraid to even talk to you.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:That's always shocking to me, but I get it.
Marc:Who's in your class?
Guest:I don't know, because of Last Comic Standing.
Marc:You jumped ahead a little bit.
Guest:Yeah, and there was not even necessarily in terms of I'm better than anyone, but in terms of I didn't come up with anyone.
Guest:Maybe like a Chris D'Elia, because I remember we did La Jolla together.
Guest:That's about right, yeah.
Guest:i'm just trying to think of people i see a lot right um but you know you got to go out and you put in your work and i see these like younger comics who will look at older comics and sort of emulate them but you're all they're almost emulating the energy and the attitude that happens and none of the work is there right oh right and they come on stage my biggest pet peeve is this come on stage you got seven minutes and i come up with like a beer yeah i'm like listen you're not ron white you don't need it for like the pauses put your fucking drink down let's hear your jokes about being a stoner
Guest:Like this is not a relaxing thing.
Marc:You're at work.
Marc:Well, you got to pretend that you're not afraid somehow.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Marc:Whatever you have to grip.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Whatever you got to hide behind to hide that fear.
Marc:But that's an amazing work ethic because I think that's the truth.
Marc:And I think that what's happened more than anything else is a lot of people will say they're comics and there's no indication of that other than they've gotten on stage a few times at bringer rooms.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like to be a comic, you got to fucking do the job and you do the job.
Marc:You got to do the job.
Guest:And I don't even think, you know, if you're lucky enough to be this miserable, then you're a comic.
Marc:Or you don't even know what it is.
Marc:It's like, is it misery?
Marc:I mean, you obviously have some anger issues that you're either going to resolve or you're not.
Marc:As I'm backing out of your driveway.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Good luck.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm not scraping your car.
Marc:No.
Marc:But, you know, that sort of, and also that determination.
Marc:But who the hell knows why you get the bug?
Marc:I mean, like, you know, some people have and they don't.
Marc:And it really determines who's going to really, you know, chase the fucking thing down and nail it.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Because it's almost, it's not even an obsession.
Marc:It's almost like you don't even have a choice.
Guest:It's completely it.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:You don't have a choice.
Guest:It never occurs to us not to go do that third spot.
Guest:It's weird, right?
Guest:Not to take that gig.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think it's a drive.
Guest:I feel lucky that I have that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because some people are like, I don't know what I want to do.
Guest:Like, I feel lucky that I have a purpose that drives me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:In a very weird way.
Guest:But that really is what it comes down to.
Marc:Well, it's great that you're getting this draw now.
Marc:Because a lot of times, Last Comic Standing, you go out, and then a lot of them people, they fizzle out a little bit.
Marc:Almost all of them.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They do that headlining year, and then they don't generate new shit or whatever.
Marc:If it's a gimmick, it dries up.
Marc:But you just sort of took it, and then you kept building.
Yeah.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:It's a part of it.
Guest:I mean, there's hard work.
Guest:There's also luck.
Guest:Like, you never know.
Marc:But some of the best comics build followings from comedy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The guys who really sell the big tickets, they don't have TV shows.
Marc:Joe Coy, Gary Goldman.
Guest:Brian Regan.
Marc:Brian Regan.
Marc:Even Gaffigan, for some degree.
Guest:And while I'm not in that pantheon, I still...
Marc:But those are real comics.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:That's all comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The gigs will come and go.
Guest:The TV shows take forever.
Guest:In the meantime, go and have your actual career.
Marc:New hour every year.
Guest:Every year.
Marc:Yep.
Guest:Which is now even difficult because Netflix is so popular.
Marc:I know.
Guest:There's like a queue to get your special on there.
Guest:um so what happened with the view how'd you get that gig oh the view how many episodes so this is so for people who don't know i was one episode you get these gigs coming up and you you look at people who have careers and it's like oh he's the on tv on tv and it's like oh he's the fashion expert or she's the chef you almost very few of us get to dictate our careers like leonardo caprio gets to cherry pick what he does and what kind of actor he wants to be right
Marc:for the most part we're like someone's like hey you're gonna host a dating show and you're gonna be the comic that knows about dating now and you have to work so hard to mold that but you don't want to turn down the opportunity because i used to get those and they and sometimes they don't fit and your manager convinces you that it'll be a good experience because you're gonna be on tv you're gonna learn how to read prompter or whatever you're gonna learn the skill of hosting and they kind of sell you on this idea that no exposure is bad exposure and then you do these things and you look at it you're like what the
Guest:what was that yeah i wasn't even being funny what do i pay you for right i was just sitting there and i think at least in my head i always think i can make something funny i always think i can make it you underestimate the power of a shitty show i really and editing and so i always take a thing i'm like you know what yeah maybe i could make it my own honestly every time you make it your own right except for the view right
Guest:It was so they I took a meeting.
Guest:I had this whole thing.
Guest:I wrote a pilot for ABC.
Guest:And so they wanted to like keep me in the whatever family and all these meetings.
Guest:And the executive there who is who doesn't work there anymore took a meeting.
Guest:I was very excited.
Guest:I wore a button down.
Guest:and he was like let's get you uh one because they were trying out guest hosts with their panels like come on the view and i want a late night talk show it's what i've wanted from the get-go and the only reason i have a podcast is so i can work on listening to people right um and so i was like daytime talk show and i always love the effervescence of daytime like daytime variety shows um no they're great and i was like i think i'll be good i think i'm i think it could work right and i was so excited and i just bought a house and like in my like
Guest:Most vulnerable moment.
Guest:I'm like, oh my God, I just bought this house and I'm going to have to move to New York because I'm going to be so good at The View and I don't know what I'm going to do.
Guest:I'll have to be bi-coastal.
Guest:I'm planning this out and they fly me there.
Guest:I get to The View and my agent's there and I get there.
Guest:It's a big shot.
Guest:It's a big shot.
Guest:And, you know, it's a show watched by at least 15 overweight black women at noon during the day.
Guest:So I get there and they give you like 40 topics.
Guest:And I research all of them because I'm not about to look stupid in this segment.
Guest:Do you overwork?
Guest:Well, I just made sure I was prepared.
Guest:Right.
Guest:For some of them.
Guest:And a lot of them are opinion based.
Guest:And honestly, what they're talking about, there's never anything polarizing for the most part.
Marc:Who are they?
Guest:It's Whoopi Goldberg.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's Rosie Perez.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:There was this woman, this white woman named Nicole Wallace, who was like the Republican.
Guest:And it was Raven Simone.
Guest:So I get there.
Guest:Do you know Raven Simone?
Marc:What does she do?
Guest:When she was a kid, she had that show, That's So Raven.
Guest:She was the little one on the Cosby show.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Okay, go ahead.
Guest:So I get there.
Guest:I'm very excited.
Guest:I don't like them.
Marc:And they're regulars.
Guest:They are the regulars.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Raven Simone was not, and that's why this is important.
Guest:So I get there, and they say, well, you're here on kind of an interesting day.
Marc:And I'm like, oh, God, why can't this just be so... Oh, no.
Marc:Goddamn it.
Interesting.
Guest:today is the day that we announce raven simone will be a permanent cast member and i'm like okay not sure because she had been like filling in she got the job you were supposed to be in a way in a way and i'm like okay it was great for her so maybe there's whatever maybe whatever so let me just go home so they go you have an option you can
Guest:either be out on the stage with the ladies as a cast member when we introduce raven and like welcome her as a permanent member or we can welcome raven and we're gonna have like confetti it's gonna be cute and then we'll have you come out and i said whatever you guys want yeah to shit on her party right i'll do whatever you want i'm just trying to be easy and yeah yeah yeah congenial so we go over the topics i tried talking to whoopie goldberg she really wasn't having it i went over to her and i was like hey you know i
Guest:I watched your documentary on Moms Mabley, and I think that, and I was just like, I loved it.
Guest:I saw it on the plane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, how was that for you?
Guest:And she just looked at me.
Guest:She goes, well, I liked it.
Guest:And I was like, oh.
Guest:Like, here I am.
Guest:I'm a female comic trying to talk to a female comic.
Marc:Did you say you liked it?
Guest:I did say I liked it.
Guest:I was like, I really enjoyed it.
Guest:And I was like, how did that, I think I asked, like, how did it do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she goes, well, I liked it, which is code for it didn't make any money.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it was such like an icy thing.
Guest:I'm like, fine, who knows?
Guest:And I'm in her space and I'm cool.
Guest:So I say, I'll do whatever you guys want.
Guest:So they go, okay, you know what?
Guest:We're going to have you out there when we announce the show.
Guest:You'll walk out there with the ladies and we'll have Raven come on later.
Guest:So they start the show.
Guest:They're like, it's the view, the audience warmup guy.
Guest:Everyone's applauding.
Guest:So I come on stage.
Guest:What's her name?
Guest:Whoopi Goldberg's like, all right, all right, all right.
Guest:Welcome to The View.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And I'm like, all right, she's going to say my name.
Guest:It's going to be amazing.
Guest:Let's get started.
Guest:Today's a big day.
Guest:I'm sitting there.
Guest:I'm sitting at that panel.
Marc:And Raven's done, they've done the Raven thing.
Guest:She's not there yet.
Guest:Raven's not there yet.
Guest:Because I said they wanted me to come out with the panel.
Guest:Today's a big day.
Guest:I'm like, they're going to say it.
Guest:I'm a guest host on The View.
Guest:Raven Simone is a permanent host.
Guest:Confetti comes down.
Guest:I'm standing there.
Guest:No one has said my name.
Guest:No one has introduced me.
Guest:And I'm just clapping.
Guest:She comes out.
Guest:She hugs us.
Guest:Still no one knows who I am.
Guest:And she came out.
Guest:She brought us each food.
Guest:She goes, I don't do gifts.
Guest:I give food.
Guest:And backstage some PA was like, what's your favorite food?
Guest:And I was like, I guess I like bacon.
Guest:She goes, Eliza, I know you love bacon.
Guest:I'm like, I don't fucking know you.
Guest:And she just gives me this thing of bacon.
Yeah.
Guest:So we all sit down.
Guest:I'm like, okay, now Whoopi's going to announce me.
Guest:Whoopi's like, all right, let's get to the first topic.
Guest:She wouldn't look at me.
Guest:She wouldn't say my name.
Guest:No one knows who I am.
Guest:And there's five of us just sitting there.
Guest:And every single topic, they either would like ice me out and not acknowledge me.
Guest:Or if I made a joke, they would like try to point out why I was wrong.
Guest:No one knows my name at this point.
Guest:Still, no one has said this is Eliza Schlesinger.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:To the point where, and then the commercial would come up, no one would look at me.
Guest:And I'm sitting there and I'm like, what did I do?
Guest:I wanted to be a part of this and I was so excited.
Guest:Someone made a joke about the cloud, right?
Guest:And the joke about the cloud is that no one knows how it works.
Guest:They made a movie about it.
Guest:And so I made a joke.
Guest:They're like, oh, we store it in the cloud.
Guest:This is one of the stories.
Guest:And I go, right, because everyone knows how the cloud works.
Guest:And Nicole Wallace goes, well, there are settings.
Guest:I'm like, that's your input?
Guest:There are settings?
Guest:That's what we're...
Guest:And that was it.
Guest:And the segment ended and no one would look at me.
Guest:No one would talk to me.
Marc:And you were there for the whole show?
Guest:I was there for the panels in the morning and then they each do.
Guest:Then they had to move on to their pressing eight minute segment about oatmeal.
Guest:That came next.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I walked out of the building like the next step would have been security escorting me out.
Guest:None of the producers would say goodbye.
Guest:None of the women said goodbye.
Guest:What the fuck happened?
Guest:I have no idea.
Marc:What'd your agent say?
Guest:I was livid.
Guest:The angry one.
Guest:I walk outside.
Guest:I don't do a bad job.
Guest:If I go on a game show, I go on things like it's fun and you have fun and they have you on because you're a funny person for a living.
Guest:I've never done a bad job.
Guest:I've never let anyone down like that.
Guest:I consider myself pretty professional and I'm almost in tears, but I don't want that to happen.
Guest:And I'm just, my agent's like, I don't know what that was.
Guest:I'm so sorry.
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:The work floor.
Guest:I get a call from the producer.
Guest:He goes, well, that didn't go well.
Guest:And I'm like, why are you saying that to me?
Guest:I didn't, I did my job and I didn't do anything.
Marc:No one introduced you.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:He goes, yeah, here's what I think.
Guest:I think, I think you don't come back tomorrow.
Guest:And I was like, can I keep the hotel room?
Marc:Do they let you?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You don't come back tomorrow.
Guest:We're going to have you back in a couple weeks.
Guest:And I'm listening to him and I'm not, I would have come back the next day just because I don't want to back down from anything.
Guest:But I sincerely asked him, I go, let me ask you this.
Guest:In a couple weeks,
Guest:Will Nicole Wallace be any more relevant?
Guest:Will Rosie Perez be any smarter?
Guest:And will Woppy Goldberg be less of a bitch to me?
Guest:The answer is probably no.
Guest:And then the show completely unraveled and he got fired.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was, I think those women, you know, everybody gets jealous.
Guest:How long ago was that?
Guest:This was a couple months ago.
Guest:I think it I think I was hurt because I understand someone's younger than you or funnier.
Guest:Of course, there's a competition thing, but especially as like another woman on a show that's supposed to be all about women.
Guest:Yeah, they were so cold.
Marc:And you don't think it had anything to do with the exchange with Whoopi initially?
Guest:No, because I came up and I said I liked her documentary and that was it.
Marc:That's so weird because this is one thing about show business that bothers me is that there's a lot of things going on we don't know about when we walk into situations.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you know, probably what happened was they'd given fucking Raven that job already.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they didn't know who it was going to be, but she must have done something right.
Marc:And then they negotiated that deal and you were still on the books and they didn't see any reason not to have a guest host.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But whatever they were up to was probably over.
Guest:I think there's that.
Guest:There's also, I know that some people don't want to be on the show.
Guest:The show isn't doing well.
Guest:I think I walked into a storm.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I didn't take it as personally.
Guest:But that being said, like, if you're, and I've had this happen once or twice where you're a guest on a show and the host, for whatever reason, is having a bad day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then they make you pay for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, look, you invited me here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that's tough because.
Marc:And it's a live show.
Marc:You really could have fucking done something.
Guest:I could have said some F-bombs.
Guest:It's one of those moments where as a professional or as a sane person, you're like, look, I'm not going to yell at you and be like, hey, Whoopi, you're wearing socks with sandals, you maniac.
Guest:I'm not going to do that.
Guest:I'm just going to walk away quietly and then go on a large podcast and talk about it.
Guest:But there are those moments in Hollywood where you could make a name for yourself by going batshit crazy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or you could just be professional and walk away and no one will ever see that episode.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's a decision.
Guest:It's a line in the sand.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Marc:Good for you for making the decision.
Guest:I didn't even draw the line.
Guest:I just went home.
Marc:You just went home.
Marc:You could have been the chick that said fuck and lost her mind on the view.
Guest:I don't think I'm that person.
Guest:I don't think I'm the person that has the freak out.
Marc:I've had freak outs, but not like that.
Guest:No.
Marc:You know, usually at home in front of people I love.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Not as epic.
Marc:No.
Guest:Just like a nightly occurrence.
Marc:Well, what do you do with all this fucking, you know, like, I guess, like, I don't know.
Marc:Like, it seems like, you know, we talk a lot about anger.
Marc:But, like, on a day-to-day basis, do you experience it?
Marc:Or are you just, like, keeping your nose with a grindstone?
Guest:I'm angry all the time.
Guest:I'm angry and frustrated all the time.
Guest:And the only thing that sort of curbs it is the fact that it's funny.
Guest:Like, if I'm angry, something funny is going to come out of it.
Marc:Yeah, I know that.
Marc:One.
Marc:Angry or sad.
Marc:You know, pain or anger, you know, generates a lot of stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But what's the source of it generally?
I don't know.
Guest:Just a general frustration.
Marc:Like, you know, like at Starbucks or wherever you go for coffee, you're like, God damn it.
Marc:Like that.
Guest:It has to do with, I feel social contracts get broken a lot of times.
Guest:Like I was on the plane today.
Guest:And now look, the only one being harmed by this is me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't take it out on people.
Guest:I don't snap.
Marc:Except yourself.
Guest:Except myself.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But what are you going to do?
Marc:And you might make people uncomfortable because you're stewing.
Guest:Just ever stewing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like people are like, what's her problem?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But if you just come up to them, I'm very nice.
Guest:I would never take it out on someone.
Marc:Well, what about these social contracts?
Guest:Social contracts.
Guest:So like today, I'm on the plane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the woman in front of me, it's a husband and a wife, and they have a baby.
Guest:I understand.
Guest:Babies cry.
Guest:Nothing you need to do about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm sleeping, and all of a sudden, I hear very loud the Alphabet song coming from the woman's iPad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:She's playing it for the kid.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Put fucking headphones on your kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, what the fuck is wrong with you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So the kid's not crying.
Guest:So you're going to make everyone listen to the alphabet song.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Things like that where people just like I try not to have much of a carbon footprint or social footprint.
Guest:And I try not to like let my thoughts like hurt anyone or my actions.
Guest:That is so fucking rude.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm the only one paying for it because I have to now hear the alphabet song.
Marc:And lock into it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And just let it just destroy you.
Guest:It destroyed.
Guest:And so you breathe through it.
Guest:But then like, so, so she's ignorant.
Guest:But if I say something, then I'm, I'm at fault because she didn't do it deliberately, but I would be saying something deliberate.
Guest:So then I'm the bad person.
Guest:Right.
Guest:What do you do?
Guest:And these things happen, you know, it's easy to say, let it go, but I don't get mad in traffic or anything.
Guest:It's little things like that where it's like in your space.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like you have to understand what I'm saying.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I do.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:But I do get mad in traffic.
Marc:Even though I know that's something I have absolutely no control over, I still think it's an injustice somehow.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And it's my shit luck.
Marc:It's just you.
Marc:Well, that's it.
Marc:It's like I have to go back to something when I first got sober and my second wife, who was a comedian, I'd get mad about something and she would go, just like your whole fucking life, right?
Oof.
Marc:But the point was, a lot of it doesn't have anything to do with you.
Marc:Because sometimes I'm like, I feel okay.
Marc:I'm not mad and I can make those choices.
Marc:There's some part of you that you get something out of being angry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm not sure what it is and it's not a good thing, but you get something.
Guest:There's some endorphin.
Guest:There's some good chemical released.
Guest:Because if it was legitimately anger...
Marc:Because these all sound you're not miserable.
Guest:No, I have.
Guest:Of course, we all have bad days.
Marc:No, but I mean, you're not sad.
Guest:No, I don't have depression.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So like, you know, there's some part.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But where does that come from?
Marc:I mean, I can't always track it.
Marc:I have it.
Marc:But but it's upsetting.
Marc:So what do you think is going to make you be able to be like, all right, I did it.
Guest:I did it.
Guest:I would like, well, I haven't had the thing.
Guest:I haven't had like the one thing.
Guest:Tiny steps.
Guest:I want a late night talk show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And we, I've made.
Marc:Or an afternoon talk show.
Guest:I don't think, I think I've been banned from the world of daytime.
Guest:Especially after this airs.
Guest:They're definitely never having me back.
Guest:I've made maybe five pilots for that.
Guest:People don't see that.
Guest:That's the other thing.
Marc:They don't see the pilots.
Guest:People don't see your efforts.
Guest:They come up to you, why aren't you on any shows?
Guest:Why aren't you in a movie?
Marc:That's my whole career.
Marc:I don't think my father thought I was doing anything of any importance until Obama was here.
Guest:Oh my God, that was a real red letter day for you.
Guest:That is huge.
Guest:But people don't see that and they come up to you and they...
Guest:they ask you these questions that are so they mean well they don't know what we do for work they don't know and even to look at me and be like you work hard it's like that's the tip of the iceberg they don't see you or other comics running to three auditions two meetings flying home early to get some sleep so you can go to another meeting several pilot deals that don't go anywhere everything nobody sees any of that and a lot of times that's what funds most of your like day day career I want a late night talk show and I think that that would make me happy
Guest:I'm very happy when I'm actively working.
Marc:Or just really the... And there's something frightening as much as we... And even with me, because when I started this podcast, there's something frightening about only... There's something frightening and beautiful about knowing you always have stand-up.
Marc:Because sometimes when you're like, well, if everything else goes away, at least I have my stand-up.
Marc:But if you really look down that tunnel...
Marc:it's an ugly tunnel sometimes room service yeah and just sort of like how long do you how long do you can you keep your audience how you know what happens it's terrifying it's terrifying uh it's comforting and terrifying right it's like stockholm syndrome uh and it is yeah so what what do you got in the in the pipe right now do you got something going on
Guest:So that's the other thing.
Guest:I'm always reticent, and I will happily say to them, to talk about things.
Guest:We live in a town where everyone's always lying.
Guest:And I never want to be that person.
Guest:Right.
Guest:One of my biggest pet peeves is when you see like an Instagram picture and someone will be like a picture of them on set and be like, stay tuned for next year, you guys.
Guest:Like, fuck off.
Guest:Show me the listing on the TV Guide channel.
Guest:If it's not there, it's not a thing.
Marc:Well, I'm happy for you.
Guest:Well, thanks.
Marc:You work hard.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Don't we have the same manager?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do we?
Guest:With Avalon?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't think I had an agent for a long time.
Marc:I mean, I had a manager that would get favors from agents, but I don't think I actually had an agent.
Marc:I do now.
Guest:Probably save more money that way.
Marc:Well, yeah, I don't.
Marc:You know, they'd send me out on one audition and then be like, do I have an agent?
Marc:I don't know if I have an agent.
Guest:Yeah, that makes it almost sound cooler that you don't know.
Guest:I'm just so...
Marc:Well, no, I guess it was cool.
Marc:It was always frustrating.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I always thought, like, I just must really suck.
Marc:Like, it always felt like they'd send me out on two auditions and I wouldn't get anything.
Marc:It would be over.
Marc:That would be it.
Marc:But now, in retrospect, I know exactly what was happening.
Guest:It was you.
Marc:No, it was just sort of like no one knew what to do with me.
Marc:And Dave Becky would be like, can you do me a favor and, like, take Mark on?
Guest:I'm a bad person.
Guest:Let's try it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, yeah, but ultimately it had to end.
Marc:And nothing happened for me until after that ended.
Yeah.
Guest:Looking back, that's such a crazy long story.
Guest:Like your personal journey.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I was with fucking Becky for 20 years.
Guest:And by the way, like we should all get awards for sticking it out.
Guest:Like good for you for not moving home to Chicago to start a family.
Yeah.
Marc:Unfortunately, when I looked over all my options, you know, when shit got bad, there weren't any.
Marc:What's it going to say?
Marc:It was like, you know, it's like, what am I going to do?
Marc:I'm fucking 20 years into this.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm in deep.
Marc:What the fuck am I going to do?
Guest:So you're first, you're like, I will settle Eagle Rock.
Guest:I will be a pioneer in Highland Park.
Marc:Well, no, it was like, it's sort of like, how do you disappear?
Marc:Because the pride element of it.
Marc:which I think you have too, is like, if things aren't working out, there really, there is no plan B, and you don't even know if your pride can handle that.
Marc:I mean, imagine if you have to survive, you'll figure out a way, but what a fucking heartbreaking bit of business that would have been.
Guest:You'd have to move to the woods and work in a general store.
Marc:Or just get a face change.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would dye my, if something happened and I couldn't for whatever reason, I would move to the Pacific Northwest and I would dye my hair black and I would wear glasses and I would work in like a craft store.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, we have the same exit strategy.
Guest:You're my manager.
Marc:Well, thanks for doing it.
Marc:It's good talking to you.
Guest:Thanks for having me, Mark.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's the show.
Marc:She's intense.
Marc:She's a lively, funny woman.
Marc:I was glad I had her on.
Marc:Go watch her show.
Marc:It's Separation Anxiety.
Marc:It premieres March 8th on TBS.
Marc:You can watch my special, More Later, on Hulu or Amazon Prime starting today.
Marc:You can go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Got a bunch of posters up there.
Marc:I seem to be in the poster business.
Marc:uh there's a lot of posters you can get a get on the mailing list you can leave comments if you have an identity on facebook so i know who you are you know do the stuff listen to the podcast get pushed through uh through a link to howl.fm for the uh for the archives now i think i'll play a little guitar
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Thank you.
Marc:Boomer lives!