Episode 680 - Ben Hoffman
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksicles what's going on it's mark maron here this is wtf i gotta tell you man i gotta be honest with you folks i am having a good time on set
Marc:There's something about being in this fourth season and just knowing what's up and knowing that it's probably going to be the last one and knowing that we've got this sort of full through line.
Marc:This season is going to all be in order.
Marc:There's a full seasonal arc with several different environments, and they're all pretty much made up.
Marc:And and just working with actors again and just being, you know, feeling comfortable and confident in the whole thing.
Marc:Like today, what do we do today?
Marc:Who do I work with today?
Marc:Ron Stark is who I worked with today.
Marc:And I just we really just started working together the other day.
Marc:And it's it's fucking hilarious.
Marc:And also, like if you have not seen the show, Marin, and I don't plug myself that much, really, but all three seasons are on Netflix and they do get better.
Marc:I'm proud of all of them.
Marc:But I think that a lot of people sort of were kind of disturbed and and a little bit blown away by the season finale of the last season.
Marc:But we are picking up a year later on.
Marc:From that scenario.
Marc:So think what you will.
Marc:I've shaved off my mountain man style beard.
Marc:I'm back to the traditional Marc Maron facial hair configuration.
Marc:And it's weird.
Marc:I'll tell you one thing that I realized about having a lot of hair.
Marc:when I did, I never had a beard like that before, and my hair was very long, is that there is a great freedom in not giving a fuck about how you look.
Marc:Because when you have a long fucked up hair and just a big old shitty beard,
Marc:It's like, what's the point?
Marc:What do you think is going to change?
Marc:What is there to keep in order?
Marc:Not much.
Marc:You just don't want your beard fluffing out too much so your head looks all weird and round like some peculiar Shakespearean clown.
Marc:I did get some flack from those people who didn't know why the beard was there about like, you're one of those guys now.
Marc:No, it was for a role.
Marc:But I did like it.
Marc:I did like the way it looked.
Marc:I like the gray in it.
Marc:I think there's a beard in my future.
Marc:When I fully give up, I think there's a beard in my future.
Marc:I don't want my beard to represent anything trendy other than I don't give a fuck anymore.
Marc:If I ever have a beard again, you will know that.
Marc:I'm telling you honestly that if you see me in a beard in the future, it means I truly don't give a fuck anymore.
Marc:What a liberating day that will be.
Marc:But not liberating right now.
Marc:Right now I'm well coiffed.
Marc:Have a mustache and a soul patch to maintain.
Marc:And a short haircut to worry about.
Marc:And, you know, just trying to look good.
Marc:Look for the, you know, look clean.
Marc:But I can't wait to get to I don't give a fuck.
Marc:But you people have to give a fuck.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I got a lozenge stuck way down in my...
Marc:Okay, I got it.
Marc:Munch on these nicotine lozenges still.
Marc:And God damn, I love them.
Marc:And that's why someday, folks, maybe when I grow, I don't give a fuck anymore beard.
Marc:I'll rid myself of all compulsive behavior.
Marc:I think I'm talking about a future Buddha, Mark.
Marc:that wanders around with no self-loathing thoughts or self-critical assessments, with no vanity, no shame, no aggravated compulsive behaviors to relieve me of the stress of me.
Marc:Just a bearded man dressed simply.
Marc:Not talking much and laughing inside because he truly doesn't give a fuck because he's free.
Marc:That's my future.
Marc:I don't know where that Mark will be walking.
Marc:I don't know what that Mark will be doing.
Marc:He will not be working.
Marc:I fear that he may...
Marc:He may wander from town to town, giggling to himself through his beard, maybe stopping for not even coffee anymore, maybe some mint tea like they drink in the Middle East, some warm mint tea on a hot day.
Marc:That's the one thing I learned in Jerusalem.
Marc:I learned nothing mystical.
Marc:There was no cathartic, in retrospect, deeply spiritual moment.
Marc:But I was baffled and confused by some of the Arab people who sold things in stores as they sat around and drank hot mint tea, poured through like a lift.
Marc:They lift the pot up as they pour it.
Marc:So there's a long stream of hot mint tea.
Marc:And I remember saying, why...
Marc:Why the fuck do you drink hot tea, man?
Marc:It's 100 degrees outside.
Marc:But I didn't say that.
Marc:I said, can I ask you a question?
Marc:Why are you guys drinking hot tea?
Marc:It's really hot out.
Marc:And the fella told me, he said, well, your body's hot.
Marc:It's 96 degrees in there.
Marc:So if you dump a bunch of cold liquid into it, it's going to require energy to get that liquid out.
Marc:to 96 degrees to body temperature.
Marc:So you're going to generate more heat trying to process the cold liquid than you would drinking some tea that's about body temperature.
Marc:So it actually, the mint is cooling and the warmth of it will not generate any more heat within your body to cause you more heat.
Marc:I always remembered that and I never listened to it.
Marc:Did I mention who I had on the show today?
Marc:Ben Hoffman had a show on Comedy Central a while back.
Marc:I believe it was the Ben Show.
Marc:Now, back when he was doing that, I didn't have him on here because I didn't think I liked him.
Marc:I honestly did not think I liked this guy.
Marc:There was something about him that rubbed me the wrong way.
Marc:Now, some of you know when that happens, if you do a little further investigation, either they are truly rubbing you the wrong way because there's a problem or they might be a little similar to you and that's what you're reacting to.
Marc:I don't like that guy because he seems to have something that I have inside of me that I don't find pleasant.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Whatever the reason, I didn't have him on then.
Marc:And then I got this record in the mail.
Marc:And I didn't know what it was.
Marc:It's very hard for me to keep track of shit because I do a lot of things and I get a lot of promotional material.
Marc:I get a lot of records.
Marc:I get a lot of books.
Marc:Some of them are solicited.
Marc:Some aren't.
Marc:But I just get this record and I get a lot of records and it's just...
Marc:big country record there's a dude on front it's this guy wheeler walker jr and it's a so just a classic cheesy country record cover with a dude sort of laying on you know holding his he's laying i think he's on his elbow i think he's like you know just he's got big cowboy he got big cowboy hat got sunglasses very reminiscent of
Marc:of the country records that I remember from when I was a kid in New Mexico.
Marc:And the thing was is I didn't know what it was.
Marc:And I thought it was a country record.
Marc:And the record's called Redneck Shit.
Marc:So there's this cowboy dude on the cover, and I'm like, wow, this guy's a little out of date, or maybe he's just classic country.
Marc:I don't know why I'm getting it, but I do get country records.
Marc:I enjoy country records.
Marc:And I'm like, wait a minute, is that fucking Ben Hoffman?
Marc:That's fucking Ben Hoffman?
Marc:So I listened to the record.
Marc:And it's like, it's a real country record.
Marc:I mean, it sounds good.
Marc:The production is good.
Marc:I mean, the songs are, are a bit crass and a bit, uh, uh, shocking to some degree in terms of what you expect out of, uh, out of a country record.
Marc:You know, uh, uh, one of them's called fuck you bitch.
Marc:One of them's called, uh, better off beaten off.
Marc:Uh, uh,
Marc:One of them's called Beer, Weed, and Coochie.
Marc:One of them's called Sit on My Face.
Marc:One of them's called Eatin' Pussy and Kickin' Ass, which I remember seeing live years ago at a sketch show and I know it was him.
Marc:And then there's one called Fightin' Fuckin' Fartin'.
Marc:Now, like, all right, I don't love parody records.
Marc:I don't love joke records.
Marc:But the thing about this record was it's beautifully produced music and they're real country songs.
Marc:If country would sort of loosen up a little bit, I think.
Marc:So it's a tight parody in a way.
Marc:But I just couldn't believe it was this kid Ben Hoffman.
Marc:And I was impressed with it.
Marc:And I knew he rubbed me the wrong way, but I'm like, fuck it, I want to talk to Ben Hoffman.
Marc:I like this idea, whatever the fuck this is.
Marc:This Wheeler Walker Jr.
Marc:business.
Marc:So then we have this long conversation, which you'll hear in a moment.
Marc:You know, and it turns out we have a lot in common.
Marc:Only, you know, I'm a Jew from New Mexico.
Marc:He's a Jew from Kentucky.
Marc:And there was just...
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:You know, it's also part of my own sort of reconstruction around the South.
Marc:Like over the years, I've become progressively more enamored with the South and, you know, very excited by it.
Marc:And I love going there.
Marc:And all the stereotypes have sort of, you know, faded away from me, you know, and to the point where I it's one of my favorite parts of the country.
Marc:But now I get this opportunity to talk about this with this Jewish guy who grew up in Lexington, grew up listening to country music, and made this country record with real dudes.
Marc:I mean, he made it with the same crew that does Jason Isbell records, that does Sturgill Simpson records.
Marc:It was produced by Dave Cobb in Nashville.
Marc:So we got into this conversation about people's understanding or misunderstanding about the stereotype of being Southern and also about being a Jewish Southerner and about a lot of other things, but about country music specifically, because I'm a guy, I play music.
Marc:I don't take myself that seriously.
Marc:And Ben is a guy that created this character to do this music.
Marc:really became enamored with playing the music and writing the songs and singing them in character and we really just had a conversation about we know what is country music and and who is uh uh entitled to call themselves a country musician or a country or a country music record and also just the fact that this is a guy that's not fundamentally a a lifer music wise but enjoyed playing music so we i don't know man
Marc:He's got a very sort of strange frequency and persistency that I found.
Marc:I had a good time with Ben Hoffman talking about all those things.
Marc:And we are going to play a song from the record of his choosing at the end.
Marc:Take it how you're going to take it.
Marc:It's Wheeler Walker Jr.
Marc:country music.
Marc:But right now, let's go to my conversation with Ben Hoffman.
Marc:Pull that thing into your face.
Guest:That's what I need to do.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm kind of a germaphobe, so I think that's my issue.
Marc:Are you really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, how bad?
Guest:Pretty bad.
Guest:I mean, we're going right into it.
Marc:Sure, why not?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you know.
Marc:No, I don't know.
Guest:Behavior therapy.
Guest:I mean, I did the whole fucking thing.
Guest:You did what whole fucking thing?
Guest:I did the whole classes.
Guest:I went to the- For germophobia?
Guest:For OCD, yeah.
Guest:Oh, for OCD.
Guest:Yeah, I had to rub a dollar bill on my forehead and-
Marc:Whoa, you're talking about this like, you know, everyone's like, oh, yeah, the old rubber.
Guest:Yeah, I always do that.
Guest:I always explain.
Guest:It's like, you know that thing, and no one's ever heard of it.
Marc:Or you have to rub a dollar bill in your face?
Guest:Well, they said graduation was to stick, this is not a joke, to stick your hand in the toilet.
Marc:Graduation was to stick your hand in the toilet.
Marc:I did not graduate.
Guest:No fucking way.
Guest:But no, but I did have to like touch the ground.
Guest:It was like this new form of OCD therapy and you would like touch the ground and then touch your face and then not be able to wash your face or your hands for like six hours.
Guest:So this is like... It's like overexposure, yeah.
Marc:Cognitive conditioning.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Almost like Pavlovian.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So when you're on a train, that's nothing.
Guest:I've touched the ground.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I've rubbed a dollar bill on my face.
Marc:I get the idea of it.
Marc:It didn't work.
Marc:It didn't work.
Guest:I think it worked as a reference point.
Marc:Right.
Guest:But it...
Guest:I think you need to really stay on it to kind of do, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's not like when I shake some disgusting guy's hand, I'm not like, oh, remember I did this thing in this class.
Marc:You don't have to wake up in the morning and just rub some money on your face.
Marc:Sleep with money.
Guest:Yeah, it's not like going to the gym.
Guest:I don't do it every morning.
Marc:Do you go to the gym?
Guest:Well, I try to.
Guest:I haven't been going as much.
Marc:But, I mean, is that because of the germ thing or just because you're a lazy fuck?
Guest:That's more on the lazy fuck end.
Guest:Yeah, some of these things, the lazy fuck, OCD, anxiety, neuroses, it's hard to know what's what.
Marc:Sometimes the OCD supports the lazy fuck rationalization.
Guest:Yeah, but sometimes the OCD helps.
Guest:It's like, it doesn't work for me, but it could be like, you know, you could get obsessive about going to the gym.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I wish I had that OCD instead of the like.
Marc:But wait, how long have you had this OCD business?
Guest:Oh shit.
Marc:Your whole life?
Guest:My whole life, it got kind of unmanageable early 20s.
Marc:Like you fell into yourself?
Marc:Like you couldn't get out of the house or you got afraid of your own hands?
Guest:It was bad enough that my parents noticed.
Guest:Because I remember one time I went out to meet some friends.
Guest:And then I went to, I had to get gas, I went to the gas station, I'm like, oh, that pump is covered in chemicals.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I went back home, I take a shower, I'm like, fuck it, what's the point of going out?
Guest:I mean, I had a whole bunch of those kind of nights where it was like, the amount of work it takes to get out of the house.
Marc:Well, I've gotten into sort of a washing my hands thing, but I think that's healthy.
Guest:Yeah, I think it is, as long as it doesn't get in the way, I'm much better now, but as long as it doesn't get in the way of your life, it's like.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But yours got unmanageable?
Guest:Yeah, I couldn't do anything.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So wait, now.
Guest:Now I just use it as an excuse.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You can get out, you know, you can, I can't because I got a thing.
Guest:Yeah, by the time I wash my hands, there's no way I can make it out.
Guest:By the time I wash my hands again.
Guest:Yeah, it's six now, you want to meet at nine, it's not going to happen.
Guest:Because I have some hand washing to do.
Guest:I don't want to explain it.
Marc:Oh, shit, that's Friday?
Marc:That's shower night.
Marc:Yeah, that's several shower day.
Marc:So you're not on TV anymore?
Marc:No.
Guest:That also hurts the OCD.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But what happened?
Marc:So it was the, what was it?
Marc:It was Ben, what was it called?
Marc:Well, it was called The Ben Show.
Marc:The Ben Show.
Marc:I feel like I met you during that.
Marc:I was going to have you on.
Marc:I probably would have saved the show.
Guest:I apologize.
Guest:By the way, can I tell you what happened during that?
Guest:With me?
Guest:Yeah, with this show.
Guest:I don't think I ever told you this.
Marc:No, I think I've only met you once.
Guest:No, we met a couple, I think we met a couple times.
Marc:I misunderstood you as being unpleasant.
Guest:Yes, I'm not unpleasant, but this will explain it all.
Guest:So my Twitter, which by the way, we both know Twitter's kind of a waste.
Guest:I gotta get out of it.
Marc:I gotta get out of it.
Marc:It feels, if you're OCD and also needy and also an addictive person, it's like torturing yourself.
Guest:It really is, so I decide my thing is just, it's just gonna be lies.
Guest:I'm just gonna make up shit.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Because I like to fuck with people.
Guest:I think, I don't know if you know, a couple of them actually got in the news because they thought it was real.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:So you did some pranking?
Guest:No, when Obama...
Guest:was re-election when Clooney had that thing for Obama yeah I tweeted as if I was there and I tweeted some like you know like crazy I said what was the one that got me in the news I said that I pretended I was hanging out with Billy Gibbons the whole time yeah obviously he wasn't there because no one it was like a press blackouts no one was there so I pretended like I was there like Billy Gibbons are you friends with Billy
Guest:I've never even met him.
Guest:I started describing the speech.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So everyone's like, oh, this guy's at the speech.
Guest:Yeah, you got one.
Guest:And then I go, Obama's got kind of a racy thing there.
Guest:He said, I forget the exact quote I put.
Guest:He said that Obama said that George Clooney's, look at this crowd, George Clooney, you know, knows a lot of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Clooney must have more pull than Travolta in a massage parlor or something like that.
Marc:Yeah, like a racy joke.
Guest:Yeah, and then all the press is just like, you wouldn't believe what Obama said.
Guest:So then that got me excited.
Guest:I could start fucking with people more.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think some Bieber one worked.
Guest:For the most part, it's just me lying on Twitter and trying to get three dudes in Idaho to believe me.
Marc:And it got traction because people thought you were really there.
Marc:That one got traction.
Marc:How irresponsible is the fucking press that that can happen?
Guest:Well, that's hilarious.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:But and that was right around.
Guest:But what I'm getting to about you was so then for no for no reason at all.
Guest:When Seth Meyers got the late night gig, I was like, fucking shit.
Guest:That was my gig.
Guest:I go, it was down to this.
Guest:Again, I've never met Lorne.
Guest:I've never met Seth Meyers.
Guest:I was obviously the last person they would call to audition for that.
Guest:I go, it was down to me, Tom Green, and Seth Meyers.
Guest:All the NBC execs told me I had the gig, but they knew they would have to give it to Seth because of Lorne.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, and repeating, don't know any of them.
Guest:And then, of course, 10 people.
Guest:I was hoping it was like 10 dudes.
Guest:They're like, what happened?
Guest:I started explaining how I nailed it.
Guest:NBC wanted to hire me.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But anyway, it was one of those things that nobody picked up on.
Guest:So then I was like, I was so fucking bored.
Guest:And I go, fuck this.
Guest:I'm done.
Guest:I'll explain it all on the WTF podcast Thursday.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you just saw that last tweet and you go, I can't do Thursday.
Guest:How about next week?
Guest:And I'm like, oh, fuck.
Yeah.
Guest:Like, the one guy I didn't want to trick read it.
Guest:And then, of course, by the laws of nature, I ran into you at Fogarty.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The next night.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I was like, fuck.
Guest:Now I look like a fucking... Because I'm not going to call you back because you think I'm coming in to talk... I don't know how much you read backwards.
Guest:You think I'm coming in to talk about the... I don't think I put it all together.
Guest:I think you just saw that last tweet.
Marc:Yeah, like, all right, this guy wants to do the show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was demanding to come in.
Guest:It was just said as a joke, and you read the last tweet, and I felt like an asshole, so I was like, I got to keep my distance for like a year.
Marc:Oh, so you were awkward?
Marc:It's weird, because I didn't even register it that way.
Marc:I don't remember putting it together as being part of some narrative.
Guest:Well, because you're a normal person.
Guest:You weren't reading every tweet.
Guest:You just saw the last one that referenced you.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:All I care about is me.
Guest:Yeah, but why would you go back and read my whole timeline?
Marc:The thing was is that I thought you were going to come on because of the Ben show.
Marc:I couldn't tell the difference between your on-screen demeanor and what you might be normally.
Guest:Well, it wasn't that much different.
Guest:I mean, I actually really liked the show.
Guest:I mean, I wasn't... I still can't believe they aired the fucking thing, to be honest with you.
Guest:It was pretty out there.
Yeah.
Guest:I think people kind of got it.
Guest:To me, it was like, I'm going to do a sketch show.
Guest:I'm going to show my real life, you know, kind of, you know, like what you and Louis are doing, but like, I'm going to do a real, I'm just going to show my life.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think people thought I was doing a Kaufman or something, and it really was my fucking life.
Guest:And then it was just like, your life's not that funny or exciting, you know.
Guest:And then I mixed sketches.
Guest:So then they really didn't know what it, basically when they call and like, you know,
Guest:We're not airing this shit anymore.
Marc:Well, how did it start, the Ben show?
Marc:Where did you fucking come from?
Marc:You were one of these guys where it's sort of like, oh, this guy's all over the place, and I don't know who he is.
Guest:I'm actually from Kentucky, believe it or not.
Marc:You grew up there?
Guest:Yeah, I grew up in Kentucky.
Guest:My family's mostly from Tennessee.
Guest:Jews from Tennessee?
Guest:Jews from Tennessee and Kentucky.
Marc:Can you explain that to me, how that happened?
Guest:um i don't like is there generations of jews from tennessee because i don't know that i've met that many southern jews but i know they've been down there a long time well i i knew my great-grandmother she died when i was like 13 really she almost made it to my bar mitzvah yeah uh but that killed her yeah the idea of it the idea of a bar mitzvah in kentucky killed her by the way there were four bar mitzvahs in my class that year
Guest:It must have been a very small temple.
Guest:I'm not making this up.
Guest:My temple was this creaky old building downtown, four of us.
Marc:In where?
Marc:In Lexington.
Guest:In Lexington.
Guest:You don't really get the cream of the crop rabbis down there.
Guest:It's like, you know, this is where they go to die, literally.
Guest:And this got blind, one-legged rabbi.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:I swear to God.
Guest:You can't make this stuff up.
Guest:You can, though.
Guest:You can exactly.
Guest:You could make this stuff up, but I'm not.
Guest:And he, you forget that blind people, the shades, it's not for them, it's for you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But they were uncomfortable, so he took them off.
Guest:So he's like, eyes rolling back in his head.
Guest:You know, it's like a horror movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm 10 years old.
Guest:And then.
Guest:13.
Guest:And.
Guest:No.
Guest:You know this before?
Guest:Leading up to it, yeah.
Guest:And he.
Guest:He.
Guest:And his fake leg was uncomfortable.
Guest:So he would put the fake leg, this giant white plastic leg with the black rabbi shoe and the black sock up on the table while he's doing his Hebrew.
Guest:And the four of us... Come on.
Guest:It sounds made up.
Guest:My mom would be dropping me off and I'm grabbing onto the fucking station wagon like, we don't want to go.
Guest:I remember telling the other parent, this is 11 years old or whatever it was.
Guest:You don't understand.
Guest:This is a blind, one-legged man.
Guest:He's taking his leg off.
Guest:His eyes are rolling back.
Guest:He's talking this language that we don't understand.
Guest:What the fuck is going on?
Guest:And we don't want to go.
Guest:It's just scary.
Guest:And you have a little brother?
Guest:I have two younger brothers, yeah.
Guest:So it's the three of you?
Guest:No, well, it was me and three other guys.
Guest:They were in the class before us.
Guest:Looking back, my parents were actually really smart about that stuff because I remember my dad, I remember like, you know, I don't want to do this.
Guest:This is stupid.
Guest:And he just was like,
Guest:my dad had to do it I had to do it your son left like he skipped all the like it's when you become he skipped all the he knew that shit wasn't gonna work just tradition just shut up and do it you're a Jew so you remember your great grandmother was alive though almost yeah well no I remember her telling me they put her and her sister on a boat from Russia to Chattanooga Tennessee in 1901 oh really okay
Guest:So my family goes back to- Still that first generation immigrants kind of- First generation immigrants.
Marc:Early 1900s.
Guest:Yeah, like they got off the boat.
Marc:Because I think there were some Civil War Jews.
Guest:There were, probably not.
Guest:There can't be that many, right?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I know that this information is out there, and maybe I'm just lazy because it's not the research project I want to be involved with, but-
Marc:Jews in the South.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Given the history of Jews in the import export business, I happen.
Marc:I have to assume that there must have been Jews that had come over from, you know, London or Europe that were probably involved in slave trading.
Marc:God knows what.
Marc:I mean, they've been around.
Marc:Jews have been around for a while.
Guest:Yeah, all my family, and especially in the Nashville area, like Nashville and Chattanooga and like Murfreesboro around there, they all go way back.
Guest:I mean, when I go back to Nashville, it's like, I was talking about the show.
Guest:I remember a couple of Thanksgivings.
Guest:My brother's in a...
Guest:My middle brother's in a band.
Marc:Pretty big band, right?
Marc:Scissor Sisters?
Guest:Yeah, so he always gets all the props, and I'm always like, I got my own show, I was like, oh, fucking my turn.
Guest:So we take all the kids to a movie thing.
Guest:We were in Nashville for Thanksgiving, and this woman comes up to me, and she's like,
Guest:Ben Hoffman?
Guest:I'm like I'm looking back at my brother like yeah you fucker see check it out now it's my turn she's like I love the Ben show I was like fuck yeah you do everywhere I go there's my fans and she's like you know every episode is so funny she's like do you know she's like I know your cousin Robbie I was like oh no way how do you know him she's like I'm married to him I was like so you're my fucking cousin it's not a star sighting doesn't count yeah
Guest:So I've had dinner with, like, you've been to my parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, what is this?
Guest:Yeah, it's not real.
Guest:And then my, of course, that led back to- That your brother loved you.
Guest:But yeah, but I go back there and I just, it's a really big family in the South.
Marc:So where were you born?
Guest:I was born actually in St.
Guest:Louis, because my dad is from St.
Guest:Louis, and he was a doctor.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:And he was doing- What kind of doctor?
Guest:Internist.
Marc:Really?
Guest:What's your dad?
Marc:Orthopedic.
Marc:He used to be.
Marc:So your dad's a general practitioner, basically.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:yeah full service doctor yeah anything yeah you sort of like he knows a little bit about everything well not when i call but yeah yeah he's well my youngest brother's a doctor really um yeah so that guy turned out okay he's good middle well you know my other brother i was always the one they were concerned about you were the oldest one
Guest:I was the oldest, and when I got the show, it wasn't like, oh, wow, he has a TV.
Guest:It was like, I can't believe he's getting up, he's going to a job.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:He's getting out of the shower.
Guest:I see him on TV, he's not having a nervous breakdown.
Guest:He's functioning.
Guest:He's functioning, yeah.
Guest:That was the bigger news.
Marc:But your brother's band was pretty big, right?
Marc:They were huge.
Guest:Yeah, they're kind of on hiatus right now.
Guest:He actually just got a place out here.
Guest:He's doing more writing and producing.
Guest:But, I mean, in England, there was this point there.
Guest:Again, I'm some schmuck from Kentucky.
Guest:I'd never known a famous person in my life.
Guest:He was probably, you know, he's the first famous person I knew.
Guest:Your own brother.
Guest:And I used to play music growing up, so I was just like.
Marc:Playing music now.
Marc:You got a new record.
Guest:You got to talk about the record.
Guest:We will.
Guest:Hey, I'm not here for my health.
Guest:I'm here to promote.
Guest:Your concept record.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was always, you know, I was in the bands and he was like, you know, kind of tagging along.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You played in rock bands when you were a kid?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, how old are you?
Marc:I'm 41.
Marc:So, all right, so you and your two brothers are growing up little Jews in Lexington, Kentucky.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Your young brother, obviously, the more disciplined one.
Guest:They were both disciplined.
Guest:My middle, he's smart.
Guest:He went to Columbia in New York.
Marc:Oh, right, okay.
Guest:Which is not really a cool rock star.
Marc:Although, I guess it's some- No, smart people go to Brown.
Marc:The artists, the more artier ones usually come from Brown, but he's Ivy League educated.
Guest:Yeah, and the youngest brother went to good school, and I was the one who was like, the hopeless.
Marc:Can't your brother play a lot of instruments?
Guest:Oh, yeah, he plays it.
Guest:On the albums, he plays most of the instruments.
Marc:Yeah, but he's a bass player by nature?
Guest:I think he ended up playing, he switches around live on stage.
Guest:I think he ended up playing bass mostly live because that was the hardest one.
Marc:Is he a wizard, though?
Marc:Is he like a guitar wizard?
Guest:Yeah, I would say my brother's best quality.
Guest:other than being gay, which has helped me a lot.
Guest:How has that helped you a lot?
Guest:I just met a lot of cool gay guys.
Guest:I wouldn't have met those guys without them.
Guest:He's really good.
Guest:He has the perfect right brain, left brain thing where he can fix... His first record was one of the first... His first record sold... I don't want to brag for him, we're here to talk about me, but...
Guest:His first record sold like three million copies in England alone, which means like... A lot.
Guest:It means everyone bought it twice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that first record, I mean, he engineered it.
Guest:He kind of built the computer that it played on, but also co-wrote the songs with his buddy Jason, who's the singer.
Guest:So he has what I don't have, which is he can kind of do the technical stuff and the creative stuff.
Marc:Well, I think if you're like me or if your anxiety is at a certain point, it's just thinking about doing the technical stuff.
Marc:It's just exhausting.
Marc:I'd take a nap just thinking about it.
Guest:Well, I was like, you know what?
Guest:Everyone's doing these podcasts.
Guest:I'm going to do a podcast.
Guest:So I spent like two days, and I recorded the song, the Ben Hoffman podcast, Ben Hoffman.
Guest:And I sent the song around all my friends.
Guest:I'm like, what do you think?
Guest:And they're like,
Guest:Where's the podcast?
Guest:Like, we don't want the song.
Guest:Because then I realized all I wanted was the theme song.
Guest:Like, I don't want to fucking do a podcast.
Guest:So, like, I spent all the time.
Guest:Like, that was the cool part for me.
Marc:Just doing the song?
Guest:Yeah, because I was wanting them to go, like, that's fucking badass.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, did you do it on GarageBand?
Guest:No, my brother taught me how to use... Pro Tools?
Guest:What's the Mac Pro Tools?
Guest:Logic.
Guest:Because I called... I was in Kentucky, which, you know, in the 90s... Lexington's nice.
Marc:There's horses there.
Marc:It's a horse town, right?
Marc:I'm a Jewish.
Marc:I'm allergic to horses.
Marc:How are you not allergic to horses?
Guest:I swear to God you mean like mentally allergic or really like I would go to the races with my friend and I would swell up I mean like my friends and their parents were already anti-semitic enough yeah and then I show up at the horse race with him and I like start swelling I'm like you know like the whiny fucking Jew I swear to God I can't go to the horse race so what you'd break out I spent my summers as a farmhand and I would like just load up on Claritin
Guest:And I actually was back home recently.
Guest:How much is this bullshit?
Guest:Are you bullshitting?
Guest:I swear this is all fucking real.
Guest:You want Barry Ezrin's number?
Guest:I'll give it to you.
Guest:He was the guy who ran the farm, and I ran to him recently.
Guest:He said, like, I never told you, because there's Jewish farmers there.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And he's like, I never told you, because your parents are friends of mine, but you were the worst farmhand we've ever had.
Guest:Like, it wasn't even close.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:That was probably the 14th.
Marc:So he was doing your parents a favor, gave you a job.
Guest:Two summers in a row I was a farmhand.
Marc:But what did you do?
Guest:My specialty was weed eating.
Marc:You know what that is?
Marc:So that was your specialty?
Marc:That was my specialty.
Guest:You could do that.
Guest:Because it was one of the few things I could fucking do.
Guest:And then me and my buddy John, one of the other Jews in town,
Guest:This is mainly Jewish.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Jewish employee of the farm.
Guest:And we would go out and we would just hide because the farm is so big that you could see them coming for a mile.
Guest:So we would just hide and talk about the new Guns N' Roses record or whatever it was.
Guest:I've done that.
Guest:And then when you see them coming, you get up.
Guest:The best one of all was that pic that I only thought was in cartoons.
Guest:And you would go out on the street and you would pick up all the...
Guest:yeah the trash with the nail on top with the nail on top i thought that was made up i thought i think i made one of those because i thought it was the coolest thing i ever saw but the fun part about that is you would see it was on the highway so you would see all the crazy shit that people would throw away like all polaroids and yeah yeah there's so much shit back that was actually that was the one part like i could i could i could have seen myself doing that for a living i just don't know if it's full time picking shit yeah
Marc:Well, there was sort of a mystery to it when there was more interesting things to throw away.
Guest:Well, compared to like mowing or like feeding horses.
Guest:Things that people had to get out of the car quickly.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And then I remember one time we did see the two guys in like the orange suits like walking the other way.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like...
Guest:I'm getting paid a lot more than you to do.
Marc:Well, yeah, you could get that job.
Marc:You just have to do something really wrong.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But it was weird to be like, I thought I'm on the right path, but I'm doing... Same thing that guy.
Guest:The punishment for prison.
Marc:The convicts are doing.
Marc:Where'd you go to college?
Marc:Did you go to college?
Guest:I went off to... I went to two years at Tulane in New Orleans.
Marc:Oh, yeah, that's good.
Guest:Then I came back to finish at Kentucky.
Marc:Kentucky State or something?
Guest:Just University of Kentucky.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:You couldn't handle New Orleans?
Guest:I was just a... I just wasn't ready for college, I don't think.
Marc:What, did you freak out?
Marc:Were you one of those guys?
Marc:Did you have to go to the doctor?
Guest:Well, I think it was when all this neuroses kind of started, and then I'm like away from home, and you know, like...
Guest:how did it manifest itself like were you just re on the road and then of course you know but you get there and you're like what were you studying were you like were you I didn't fuck I was just so low I didn't know what the fuck I wanted to do so you're one of those guys that basically my parents met at Tulane okay so in high school I was like someone had told me like if you're like what's it called legacy you can get it it's easier to get into a school I'm like oh I'll just apply there and that's and then I can get it out of the way it's just like yeah I'll just get in really fast yeah I didn't think think about it I went there I'm like
Guest:what the fuck am I doing?
Guest:And it was a very strange school.
Guest:It was like, you know, because I was thought of there as a hick.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like some dude from Kentucky.
Guest:And I'm like, fuck, I drove 12 hours due south to get here, you asshole.
Guest:It was all these Jersey and New York kind of guys.
Guest:And I remember my mom would leave me messages on the machine.
Guest:And they're like, you know, Benjamin, you know, give me a call.
Guest:And they're like, ah, your mom's a redneck.
Guest:I'm like, we're in fucking Louisiana.
Yeah.
Marc:Oh, because of the southern voice, the southern accent?
Guest:Yeah, back in the answer machine.
Guest:I remember my brother said he had the same issue at- At Columbia?
Guest:Columbia.
Guest:I remember him telling me once that some of the people in the dorm, I'd never heard of this one before, they said that, he's like, back before cell phones, he goes, your phone bills must be crazy.
Guest:And he's like, why?
Guest:He's like, because you talk so slow.
Marc:Really?
Guest:And I guess I've lost my accent.
Marc:I don't hear it, really.
Marc:A little, very little.
Guest:I don't drink much, but when I do, I guess it comes out a little bit.
Marc:Does it?
Guest:but came out on this record, I'll tell you that.
Marc:I think it's an important career shift.
Guest:Moving into country music.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was my goal all along.
Guest:That was the point of this.
Guest:That's what the fucking show was for.
Guest:The show wasn't, the show was the way to get into music.
Marc:The Ben show was the, just on the way to.
Guest:Oh no, we did get caught up there.
Guest:So anyway, it was called The Ben Show, but then there was a magician in Canada who had a magic show called The Ben Show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And they're like, oh no, that's a legal problem.
Guest:I'm like.
Marc:Comedy Central said can't do it.
Guest:Yeah, I'm like, we went to The Ben Show website, this guy, this magician.
Guest:The magic, it had like 50 views, probably all Comedy Central lawyers.
Guest:And he ends the show by saying, have a good afternoon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a daytime magic show, live.
Guest:Anyway, so they made me call it the Ben Show with Ben Hoffman, which is like the most pretentious.
Guest:It's like, I don't need my name in it once, much less.
Guest:So then all of a sudden it's like became, you know, like my name fucking everywhere.
Marc:But how long ago was that?
Marc:The Ben Show was?
Marc:I was 30, 39.
Marc:39, so okay.
Marc:I'm 41 now.
Marc:You're 41.
Marc:So, what the fuck?
Guest:Or 38 when I got it.
Guest:Well, I think the, I would say my first eight years in LA was like.
Marc:So you were here eight years before the Ben show?
Guest:Yeah, well, I was gonna say, I think my first eight years, it took me like eight years to get to step one.
Guest:And then like step one.
Marc:That's about right though.
Guest:That's about right, but I'm saying then I skipped like five steps.
Guest:I was working on Sports Show with Norm MacDonald.
Marc:But wait, so where do you, okay, so you finished up college in Kentucky and you majored in what?
Guest:I think it ended up being like journalism, advertising, whatever was the, I remember whatever.
Marc:Whatever you could cobble together at the end?
Guest:Whatever these credits do, and they're like, how about advertising?
Guest:I was like, oh, cool, you get to work with cameras.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's not really the same, yeah.
Marc:So you graduate college, and your parents are like, so what now?
Marc:I had no fucking clue.
Marc:Did they say that?
Marc:Because it seems like there's a big gap.
Marc:I moved here when I was 25.
Marc:Okay, all right, but when you left Kentucky.
Marc:I left Kentucky, and then.
Marc:Were your parents like, it's okay, Ben.
Guest:no no i don't remember it's okay listen i love my parents and we get along really well but it's okay ben was not i don't remember that phrase but i remember um so after college i was literally like i do not know what the fuck to do yeah because i didn't know anything about you know i was like what's the job you i'm a rock star i'd like to do that where do you apply i still have a 20 dollar guitar if i'd know my fucking brother could do i probably would have gone for it
Guest:But I remember some friends moved out to Portland, had a house in Portland, and there was like the rooms for like 250 bucks a room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, Portland.
Guest:That's where I was meant to be, out west.
Guest:That lasted about six months.
Marc:You went to Portland?
Marc:What happened there?
Marc:So wait, let's get back to something.
Marc:So, and then, because I just want to know better, because you have a fairly consistent demeanor here on the mic.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But at some point, that fragmented at some point.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, even when I lose my mind, I'm pretty mellow about it.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But when you say you went to college, because when I went to college freshman year, I was pretty fucking lost.
Marc:And you end up hanging around with a lot of different people to try and find yourself.
Marc:Or were you more isolating?
Marc:Did you find a click of dudes?
Guest:No, I was like... Did you write for the paper?
Guest:No, I had nothing.
Guest:I was like...
Guest:Oh, I'll just get fucked up and hang.
Guest:Oh, so you, what, booze?
Guest:Coat?
Guest:Mainly booze.
Guest:I mean, I remember I did, I'm just too neurotic for those stuff.
Guest:I remember I did mushrooms once.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And decided, I remember being at a port-a-potty at a, outside of port-a-potty during Mardi Gras.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And deciding that, I remember looking up at the sky, I was like, Lord, and I'm not a religious person, if you get me out of this, I will pay you back by becoming a rabbi.
Guest:That was your mushroom experience?
Guest:That was my mushroom experience.
Guest:So I woke up the next morning, and I was like, I mean, of course, talking to the wall, like, listen, you don't want me to become a rabbi.
Guest:I don't want to be a rabbi.
Guest:Let's forget this happened.
Guest:I'm okay now.
Guest:Yeah, I'm fine.
Guest:Like, let's just, I won't touch drugs.
Guest:You know, psychedelics are not my thing.
Guest:I like that you came down and still felt you needed to renegotiate.
Guest:You know, I came down, I was like, I said some stuff last night that I shouldn't have said.
Guest:but also there's no, there's no world that needs, that wants me as, and also the idea that whatever my brain thought that becoming a rabbi would, would even it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's so weird.
Guest:But I remember just, if you're going to try psychedelics, Mardi Gras is not the place.
Marc:Shit.
Marc:No, man.
Guest:Oh,
Marc:I remember this guy, I remember I took it- I only tripped during the day.
Marc:I couldn't handle it that well.
Marc:It was not my thing.
Marc:I hate it.
Marc:I didn't have a strong enough sense of self to begin with, so expanding that, it just amplifies the vulnerability, and you just feel like you're- Well, that's what everyone was saying.
Guest:It'll expand your mind.
Guest:I was like, I want to shrink my mind.
Marc:i need to tighten it up i'm so i'm so i'm so fucking lost and i'm thinking about so much crazy shit yeah right and then you just go way out there like one time i took mushrooms by myself in new york at night and all the other times i'd done it was during the day with friends where you're like let's go outside and it was okay you could carry yourself but like i was just by myself at night i'm like i'm gonna go out and i'm like oh no
Marc:It's just evil everywhere.
Marc:So you're in Tulane for two years, you lose your shit a little bit, or you just didn't know what the fuck you were doing.
Marc:You go back to Kentucky, so your parents are there, so at least you have some familiarity.
Marc:Do my laundry, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then you did your laundry at your parents' house, and your mom actually did it for you?
Guest:No, she stopped doing my laundry when I was like 10.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But, you know, you tried to convince yourself that you were living your own life, I guess, a little bit?
Marc:Or were they still supporting the confusion?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Then after Kentucky, like six months in Portland, then I came – it was all these, like, starts and stops.
Marc:What happened in Portland, though?
Guest:That must have been – It was just, like – nothing bad happened.
Guest:That was really when it was, like, I got to figure out what this shit is.
Guest:Like, this –
Marc:So you're just living in a group house with a bunch of fucking stoners and people are trying to figure shit out?
Guest:I mean, my buddy who I'm still friends with, he's like a city planner now.
Guest:In Portland?
Guest:And then he just moved to Seattle.
Guest:He's doing city planning there.
Marc:So he got a real job?
Guest:Yeah, a couple of those guys got real jobs.
Guest:A couple who knows where they are.
Guest:And then I...
Marc:I just love that group housing.
Marc:Like, like people, like not everybody lives that thing where you're just sort of like, I'm just going to move into this place with all these freaks.
Marc:You don't really know them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I had like, exactly.
Guest:I had like one friend there and the other four are just like, what the fuck is happening?
Guest:Who are the fuck?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And where's my food?
Guest:And then when you get your own place after that.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's fucking heaven.
Marc:It's heaven, and then you just sort of like, well, now what do I do?
Marc:That was my problem.
Marc:You get your own place, and it's like, this is sad, too.
Marc:I liked having my own place in New York, but I remember just napping a lot.
Guest:Yeah, it gets kind of depressing, but I just remember being so excited.
Guest:It's my place, so nobody peed in the water.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, and that was Chicago?
Guest:Well, yeah, then I moved to Chicago.
Guest:Then I was like, that's what I was like, I'm going to try this comedy thing out.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:So I start taking class at Second City.
Marc:But not stand-up necessarily, just comedy.
Guest:I've never done stand-up.
Guest:I did stand-up 10 times in my life.
Marc:Okay, so you go to Chicago because of what?
Marc:What inspires you?
Marc:What did you see?
Guest:Well, you know, I was just like, all these, like, what am I going to do?
Guest:And I was like,
Guest:I've always loved, you know, and I hate to sound like too much of a, you know, hayseed, but like in Kentucky, like I don't really even know that these jobs, like I'm not stupid.
Guest:I know the different strokes is in an improv show, but the idea that like you can write the, like, cause I wanted to be a writer, some sort of writer.
Guest:I was like, but I can not like an, I know I'm not like a novelist.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm still laughing about the renegotiation with God.
Guest:Like I said some things.
Guest:I wonder if he's still a, I wonder if I still owe him.
Guest:I would assume I'm in the clear now, right?
Guest:But just the idea that I'll be a rabbi if you get me through this, and then the next day you're like, you know, that was some crazy talk.
Guest:Well, that's my thing, too, is when people offer me drugs, I'm like, no.
Guest:Because last time I did it, I decided to become a rabbi.
Guest:I don't want any drug that makes me want to become a rabbi.
Guest:At the time, it sounded like a good... What's so crazy is at the time, it sounded like a good idea.
Yeah.
Marc:You could see yourself as a rabbit.
Guest:I actually literally could see myself as a rabbit.
Marc:You're going to use this horrible experience.
Guest:Well, then I could teach other people not to go down the path I took.
Guest:And I would have been the worst fucking rabbi of all time.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you know that you, you're not a novelist and that, you know, different, you knew that different strokes wasn't an improv show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You had some sense.
Guest:So I'm like, but I can write.
Guest:I know that.
Guest:So I'm like, I was like, why don't I take classes at second city?
Guest:And then I could like kind of look not as wanting to be a performer, but like kind of learning just some kind of experience in, you know, I'm with, right, right.
Guest:Do who is some great teachers.
Guest:I don't,
Guest:Who'd you teach?
Guest:Who were your teachers?
Guest:A bunch of guys who were on stage.
Guest:But I remember going down to see the show.
Guest:Like, it must have been from their breaks from SNL.
Guest:Like, seeing Tina Fey and Rachel Dratch and all that.
Guest:They were there?
Guest:On stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:On the stage, not in the classes.
Guest:And...
Guest:What happened with me was a girl in my class was like, do you want to audition?
Guest:She's like, I work at an advertising firm.
Guest:Do you want to audition to be an extra in a commercial?
Guest:I was like, well, what's it pay?
Guest:She's like, a hundred bucks.
Guest:I was like, I'll never have to work again.
Guest:Yeah, sounds great.
Guest:And I go audition to be an extra and I got the lead in the commercial, which was not, I mean.
Marc:Local commercial?
Guest:It was actually a national commercial.
Marc:What commercial?
Guest:It was a radio station, but they put K-Rock, whatever city, they would change the station thing.
Guest:I was like, that's all I gotta do to be in.
Guest:I was like, I got some checks in the mail.
Guest:I'm like, where's more of this?
Guest:And then I started doing Second City out here.
Marc:Did you do the whole program?
Guest:Well, halfway through it is when I had this realization that I could actually be in commercials.
Guest:I was like, that's the perfect plan.
Guest:I'll do my writing during the day, and then I'll fucking do commercials.
Guest:And you've probably done these commercials.
Marc:Never did.
Guest:You ever did?
Marc:I think I auditioned for one or two, and I was like, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I was awful at it, but when you need this Jewish schlub, I could kind of do that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, no, yeah, they like the everyman guy.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't fit anything.
Marc:I'm just like this.
Guest:Well, I didn't really, but I also got in a lot of, I remember getting, my thing was I didn't, and it was not a put on.
Guest:I really didn't give a shit.
Guest:I was just like, I would go to an audition and there'd be like, you know, for like-
Guest:carl's jr and there's like 12 burgers there like we need you to eat this burger while you're right while you're look like you like it and i'm like this burger's been sitting out all fucking day i'm not eating i'm not eating this fucking thing yeah i was like i'll eat it if i booked the commercial like no no we need to see you eating the burger now i was like i'll just eat the bun this this meat has been sitting here it was right the germaphobe steps in i'm not eating this it's like if you don't eat the burger you're not you can't audition well i go like you know fuck this fuck this burger fuck you i'm out and then i get a call like we like his attitude you know
Guest:Maybe he's the guy who won't eat the burger, but then he talks to me.
Guest:I was working on my writing during the day, but the commercial stuff can make you lazy because you can make enough to pay your bills, but not enough to live long.
Guest:today I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna go to the library and write a screenplay.
Guest:Stop by the mailbox, it's like eight grand from some Wendy's commercial and you're like, you know what, I'm gonna take a nap first, because I'm good for a few months and then I'll go back.
Marc:So you leave Chicago with the big, with the commercial money, you drive out.
Guest:I got 600 bucks in my pocket.
Marc:Yeah, you drive out?
Guest:Drive out with my Nissan Altima in the back.
Marc:And you live with who?
Guest:I got my own... I had one person I knew here, which is my cousin's cousin, who wasn't officially related to me.
Guest:I'd never met her before, but she's like, there's an opening in my building.
Guest:It wasn't that expensive in West Hollywood.
Guest:And I'm like, I'm here to fucking make it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:and 10 years later i did for eight weeks 10 years later i got a billboard on sunset boulevard that was out for a week that means something i had one too it was very exciting i fought for it my epic special i was like i and they're like you know billboards aren't that effective and i'm like can you just put one in the city where show business is that's the that is the point of the billboard yeah because like not about promotion like
Guest:There's no fucking billboards for movies where I grew up.
Guest:No, who cares?
Guest:There's billboards for furniture stores.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it is.
Guest:I would say that billboard probably helped my career more than anything because people are like, you go to meetings now, they're like, oh, yeah.
Marc:Drove past your thing.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because they drove.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's only for themselves.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To me, it was sort of like, I just want to be validated on that level.
Marc:I wanted to see a billboard.
Marc:And they put one up there.
Marc:And I don't think anybody watched the special.
Marc:The billboard looked good.
Guest:It is a big move.
Guest:Because I remember my brother was in town.
Guest:So we drove up to it, and he takes a picture.
Guest:And then, of course, people driving down Sunset are making fun of you.
Guest:I remember this one guy goes...
Guest:hey you fucking loser you never ever billboard before like no i never had the fuck have you like he was like yeah it's like you loser it wasn't guy with the billboard of course i'm surprised i'm not here every night taking pictures uh but so you move into west hollywood and you got the big plan and then i was gonna sign up over at the improv and then i was like gonna start you know i wanted to be a comedy writer and then i just start working or you know it's a hard but you did commercials
Guest:Did commercials.
Marc:And that got you by?
Marc:That got me by, yeah.
Marc:Did you save some money from that?
Marc:I mean, did you make a lot of money?
Guest:I didn't make a lot.
Guest:I mean, I had some day jobs here and there.
Guest:Like, I was like, to age myself.
Guest:I remember there was a, you know, not- You already said your age, so-
Guest:Yeah, but I guess naming my age ages myself.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I had a job on your show where you grab all that generic music from that service.
Guest:It used to be that you actually have to call and get it on a CD.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I stocked those CDs.
Guest:People would call, like, I'm making a horror film and I need some horror music.
Guest:It's like, well, we've got 10 horror CDs filled with horror music.
Guest:Ben will grab them and he'll send a messenger over to you and get them for you.
Guest:You're that guy?
Yeah.
Guest:You fucking asshole, this sounds like sound of music.
Guest:I'll send you some new stuff, sir.
Marc:I was like the stock boy.
Marc:The music wholesale place.
Guest:The music wholesale place, which is now basically a website.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I was going to say they lost tons of a job, but they really only lost my job.
Guest:So I did that, and then...
Marc:It's so weird, the jobs you get when you're starting out in show business.
Marc:The first time I came out here, I got a job.
Marc:What do you call it when you write synopsises of screenplays?
Marc:They just give you a stack of screenplays, and you're just supposed to write a synopsis.
Guest:You would think it'd be awesome.
Marc:I put too much personality in them.
Marc:In a weird turn.
Guest:And a decision I would not have made.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:It was for like Canon films back when that was around.
Guest:It is true.
Guest:Those jobs, because especially, you know, Albuquerque.
Marc:They're jobs that people get you.
Guest:But Albuquerque here in Kentucky, like the fact that this job, because I remember, so that my cousin's cousin.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Who I didn't even know.
Marc:I think it's actually called a script reader.
Guest:yeah to me that was a job i would have died for but i my cousin's cousin had a friend who i didn't know she's like i was like i need a job just a job you know something to pay the bills and she's like oh i used to work on the you know production company i can get you a job as an assistant on some right you know this new um oh yeah i did pa work eddie murphy robert de niro film i was like you know that'd be awesome to
Guest:I actually get to see a film set.
Guest:I get to see cameras.
Marc:Learn things.
Guest:So I go there, like, your appointment to meet is, like, 1 o'clock at Warner Brothers.
Guest:Like, I get to go in the Warner Brothers spot.
Guest:Isn't that exciting that first time you do that?
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:So I go there, and I walk up to the woman.
Guest:She's like, any friend of Elisa's is a friend of mine.
Guest:And I just smile.
Guest:I don't know who Elisa is.
Guest:There's a friend of a friend of a friend.
Guest:I don't know who she is.
Guest:Like, I love her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's great.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I didn't know that knowing her, quote unquote knowing her, got me past like five different things.
Guest:So literally I'm waiting eight hours at Warner Brothers for this interview.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:It's like it's an assistant job.
Guest:Just ask me whatever.
Guest:And again, true story.
Guest:They're like, all right.
Guest:And they're just like, you need to sign off from this guy, Bob.
Guest:And this guy, Bob, I was like, what the fuck is this guy, Bob?
Guest:It's been eight hours.
Guest:And they finally bring me in.
Guest:I was like, Bob can meet you now.
Guest:I go in there.
Guest:Robert De Niro.
Guest:Get out of here.
Guest:I swear to God.
Guest:It was to be his personal assistant.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm... You know how like when you're so... On the movie.
Guest:On the movie.
Guest:I'd never had... I was so thrown off by seeing Robert De Niro in person in 3D.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That I was so relaxed.
Guest:Because I remember he's like...
Guest:I was like, I'll just be yourself.
Guest:Do not lie.
Guest:Just be yourself.
Guest:He'll appreciate that.
Guest:He's like, do you have any personal assistant experience?
Guest:I'm like, no.
Guest:He's like, are you good with children?
Guest:I'm like, no.
Guest:He's like, I've got dogs.
Guest:Could you take care of the dogs?
Guest:I'm like, no, I'm really bad with dogs.
Guest:And I notice he starts laughing and stuff.
Guest:And he starts crying.
Guest:He's like, I'm interviewing the least qualified person.
Guest:Like, how the fuck?
Guest:Because of this Elise person, I got through the gates.
Guest:And he just starts cracking up.
Guest:And he's like, what could, like, if you could, like, if I need batteries on sets, could you go buy them?
Guest:And I was like...
Guest:i get i mean i don't really know my way i just moved here i don't know my way around he's and he goes what do you want to do i go i want to make movies but then i thought to myself i was like fuck then don't think i'm using them right and i made i go i made some he goes have you made any i go i made some short films and he's like how were they so that's when i hit me like you know don't you know yeah be self-deprecating i go they're the worst things you've ever seen sir
Guest:And that's when he loses it.
Guest:He's laughing.
Guest:He's cracking up.
Guest:And the next day I get a call from the woman who's his go-to guy, go-to woman.
Guest:And she's like, I just want to say, Bob wanted me.
Guest:We usually don't call when you don't get that.
Guest:But Bob wanted me to call you because he loved you so much.
Guest:But we have never met anyone less qualified for this job than you.
Guest:You have zero of the quality.
Guest:Like he was basically, because he thought you were funny, like he was trying to help you get the job.
Guest:Like, can you take care?
Guest:And I kept saying no, because like, you know, can you drive a stick shift?
Guest:Because I guess he was like, I was like, no.
Guest:Like everything he said, I said no to to try to be like, he'll appreciate my honesty.
Guest:At some point, you got to lie that you can do something.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Get batteries.
Guest:But those are the jobs I always remember.
Guest:And I remember one time someone, I went to a temp agency and they called me up.
Guest:It was like a showbiz temp agency.
Guest:And they're like, do you want to work for, we got a job at Tim Burton's production company.
Guest:I'm like, oh, fuck, yeah.
Guest:Big Tim Burton fan.
Guest:I'd love to be a PA there.
Guest:I go, I notice it's kind of like a residential place.
Guest:It's like, this is weird.
Guest:And I go, it's a fucking, this really nice condo.
Guest:And I walk in.
Guest:And it's his wife at the time, her girlfriend, Lisa Marie, remember?
Guest:She's like, do you know how to wrap presents?
Guest:I'm like, no.
Guest:He's like, I'll teach.
Guest:I was in his fucking condo wrapping presents.
Guest:She's like...
Guest:And I remember delivering them to Johnny Ramone.
Guest:I remember Nicolas Cage's Jew-eating dogs outside, tried to attack.
Guest:I was like, you just hire a temp to wrap your presents and then go deliver them to all the major stars.
Guest:But even then, it was so exciting.
Guest:I'm just calling my friends back home.
Guest:I was just at Nicolas Cage's house.
Guest:Did you see Nicolas Cage?
Guest:No, I think he'd been warned.
Marc:So what was that, like a few days, that job?
Marc:And that was that?
Guest:I think it was two days, yeah.
Guest:I learned how to wrap presents, delivered them to all of Tim Burton's friends, and then it was just a seasonal job.
Guest:He doesn't have presents year-round.
Marc:So what would you consider your big break?
Marc:I mean, so you're kicking around, you're writing shit, and you're doing improv?
Guest:Well, then I got a job kind of writing and being a correspondent on this, what I consider Al Gore's tax write-off, which was that current TV show.
Marc:Sure, I remember when that happened, because I was at Air America.
Marc:So what is that, 2006?
Marc:2006?
Guest:Yeah, around then.
Guest:And then Madeline, who co-created The Daily Show, co-created- Madeline Smithberg?
Guest:Smithberg created the show that was supposed to be the young, hip Daily Show.
Guest:Oh, I kind of remember this, dude.
Guest:And it was neither of those things.
Guest:I kind of remember this.
Guest:Some executive came in like, either there was an aberration or our ratings went way up last week.
Guest:And then the next week, they're like, it was an aberration.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:We had a .00.
Guest:The ratings were a zero.
Yeah.
Guest:Because then I got in trouble because I had a plan for them.
Guest:I'm like, listen, it was right around those new HDs, TVs.
Guest:I was like, listen, just try this.
Guest:From eight to nine, you air color bars.
Guest:You put out ads that like channel 142 or whatever it was, that's the station you turn to to adjust your TV.
Guest:That's funny.
Guest:That would at least get people to know in their brain...
Guest:Like, and see if the ratings, just see if the ratings go up.
Marc:This is for current though.
Marc:So they have an agenda and they don't want it.
Marc:They have an agenda.
Guest:And their sense of humor is very- And I'm trying to do commie didn't work.
Guest:But my big, leading to my big break was I, to me was my big break was- How many shows did you do though?
Guest:I was there for a couple of years.
Marc:At Current.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Doing that show.
Guest:It was a gig.
Marc:So you were hosting it?
Guest:Hosting and writing.
Guest:That's actually, in fairness, I learned a lot.
Guest:I was editing my own pieces, writing them.
Guest:What was it called?
Guest:It was called Infomania.
Guest:That's when I was in my early mid-thirties.
Guest:This is enough with The Joker.
Guest:I got to get a fucking job.
Guest:I came out here with, I want to do good shit.
Marc:But you learned on that show.
Guest:I learned a lot.
Guest:And then my- Made a living.
Guest:Made a living.
Guest:And I got my writing, my stuff over to Sports Show with Norm MacDonald.
Guest:And Norm hired me on that show.
Guest:And that was like, that was what kind of started it.
Marc:That was a network show.
Guest:That was the Comedy Central.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it was like, that was when I was like,
Guest:Because in my head, I was always like, listen, I'm not the smartest or the funniest.
Guest:But I think if I'm in the room with the best, smartest, funniest people, I can keep up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, I don't think I'm the – I just think – I just need an opportunity just to be around these people and see if I can keep up.
Guest:And that was – and, you know, everyone wants to write for Norm, and he's the funniest – to me, the funniest fucking guy ever.
Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, you get going from current TV to, like, you know, I'm sharing an office with Steve O'Donnell, who, like, ran Letterman for 13 years.
Guest:And Jeff Martin, who, you know, Simpsons, Letterman, Conan, and Frank Sebastiano.
Guest:Like, all these guys, like, you know, who I know the credits because I watch all these shows.
Guest:Like, holy shit.
Guest:Like, and I'm not...
Guest:I'm not at their level, but I'm not getting laughed at.
Guest:So that was kind of my big... Laughed at in the wrong way.
Guest:Correct, yeah.
Guest:I was like, I'm not getting the most, but I can...
Guest:I'm one of the gang.
Guest:You could hang.
Guest:I could hang, and I could get stuff on, I could make myself useful enough to get stuff on the air.
Marc:And you got on camera too, right?
Guest:And then I got on camera, and then Comedy Central's like, if you ever want to do a pilot, come on, we'll talk about it.
Guest:And then I went in, and I told them about this idea for a pilot,
Guest:and they gave me 50 grand to make a pilot, which, as you know, is like craft service money.
Guest:But anyway, so I was just like, but then I met, you know Mike Gibbons, who co-hosts.
Guest:Fitz.
Guest:So he co-created Tosh, and I'd met him on Norm's show.
Guest:He co-ran that, and he was like, yeah, let's just, he's like, for 50 grand, you don't have to talk to them, you don't have to listen to them.
Guest:We'll go make whatever the fuck we want to make.
Guest:I'm like, okay.
Guest:And we made this fucking crazy thing.
Marc:That was the one where you go to the therapist?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was just me and girls who dumped me, and it was just kind of my real life mixed with kind of... I was trying to do a narrative sketch show showing my real life, and we turned it in, and they were like... They thought it was a joke.
Guest:They're like... They thought they didn't... It was x-ray.
Guest:I mean, it was so dirty.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was one of those things where kind of the assistants around them started picking it up and laughing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was like, oh, this is really funny.
Guest:And then...
Guest:And then, again, when they were done, I was like, you know.
Marc:You did what, 14, 13?
Guest:Fuck, 14.
Guest:What am I, Rockefeller?
Guest:No, I did eight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, we had no lead in or anything.
Guest:I mean, the ratings weren't awful, but they let me know it was not a ratings decision.
Guest:It was like, we don't want this on TV.
Marc:But they're really cool about it.
Marc:Did it come down to you and Nathan?
Yeah.
Guest:I think it, you know what?
Guest:I hate to say that because I love Nathan's show and Nathan's a friend, but I wish they hadn't told me, but yeah, I was like, they told me.
Marc:We've only got one room for one on the street Jew.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We can only have one Jew walk in the States with a camera per L.A.
Guest:law.
Guest:But I think, you know, it was the right decision.
Guest:His show is so great that it's hard to argue with that decision.
Guest:He just has like a – that's like a show with a clear point of view and like a thing where mine was just kind of me digging around.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it kind of made sense.
Guest:And again, when they – I did a pilot for them six months after my show.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:I actually, you know, I don't want to throw names, but so Danny McBride and his whole gang were fans of the show, and they're like, he had this idea.
Guest:Actually, I thought that was a really funny pilot.
Guest:He had this idea where, like, I had a talk show where I had lost my TV show.
Guest:I had to move back in with my parents, move into my parents' basement.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and have to have celebrities come over and it was called sleeping with ben and yeah it was really weird i mean it was like much weirder than i'm explaining and they're like we want you back on the air we want to do it and they watched it and they're like i think we're good you know i think we're okay i think we've had enough often but i still i mean i did a couple you know wrote on some of the roast and some of the other oh you did
Guest:shit like that too so you're still on good terms I'm still on good terms giving me the show was a much bigger deal than taking it away yeah and getting that show led to a lot of
Guest:I was going to say a lot of cool stuff.
Guest:A lot of cool stuff they did in there.
Marc:Well, let's talk about the album because it's so funny because before I actually, maybe I wasn't paying attention that you'd been pitched, but I get a lot of CDs from a lot of different record places just out of nowhere.
Marc:Oh, sure.
Marc:And I saw this one and I'm like, is this guy related to Jerry Jaffer?
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:Because I...
Marc:Because I get you.
Guest:I'm only doing press for this album in character.
Guest:And then when Labov called about this, I'm like, I'm not doing this.
Marc:I like the show.
Marc:That'd be a long hour.
Guest:It'd be a long hour, but also as a fan of the show, I wouldn't want to listen to me.
Guest:I barely want to listen to me as me, much less listen to me in this character.
Marc:So Wheeler Walker Jr., the album is redneck shit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So let's play it as if, just out of curiosity.
Guest:Here was the idea.
Marc:But I'd like to talk to the character for a minute.
Guest:It's really just me.
Guest:It's just me with a little bit of a, it's too embarrassing.
Guest:That's the thing, too, is I don't want to do it in character because it's really just me.
Marc:Have you done any of that press for radio?
Guest:Oh, tons, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Not tons, but yeah, yeah.
Guest:We just played with David Allen Coe in Nashville.
Guest:Oh, you did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but I do.
Guest:And you put on the getup?
Guest:No, I go to podcasts in that getup.
Guest:And then they come afterwards.
Guest:They're like, hey, Ben.
Guest:I'm like, I don't know who you're talking about.
Guest:I just really enjoy fucking with people, I guess.
Guest:But the album itself is, I mean, listen, you can read the song titles and know it's a comedy record.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But it's a legit, I love country music.
Guest:I mean, obviously, I grew up in the South.
Guest:Who were your guys?
Yeah.
Guest:It's funny, the guys who produced it and played with me on the record had kind of the same trajectory as me, which is, you know, you grow up with it, Waylon, and all those guys around, then you go through your rock phase.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Then you kind of move away, and you're like, fuck.
Guest:You miss it?
Guest:Then one of your hipster buddies puts on Waylon.
Guest:I'm like, fuck you, motherfucker.
Guest:Like, my uncle lives down the street.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, you know, I just love Waylon and Willie, and I love the Leuven Brothers old stuff, and Everly Brothers, and...
Guest:I was listening to so much George Jones.
Guest:George Jones is one of my favorites.
Marc:He's the best.
Guest:He's produced George Jones.
Guest:The guy who produced this produced George Jones?
Guest:Well, Dave Cobb is the producer.
Guest:I don't want to give him too much trouble.
Guest:He's probably the hottest country producer out there right now.
Guest:Not a joke.
Guest:He did that new Chris Stapleton record and did Sturgill Simpson and Jason Isbell and all those guys.
Guest:I love that.
Guest:All those guys I love.
Guest:And I met him through some people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, I've always wanted to make a country record, like a legit country record.
Guest:But obviously, it's going to come out as comedy if I do it.
Guest:And I played him some demos, and he's like, let's fucking do it.
Guest:He was just like, I was expecting... It almost freaked me out too much.
Guest:I was like, maybe I've got the wrong Dave Cobb or something.
Guest:Maybe it's a scam.
Guest:And I'm like, well, I'm going to be in Nashville on Thanksgiving if you can do it for a few days there.
Guest:So...
Guest:I grabbed his kind of go-to band, who are now buddies of mine.
Guest:They played on Sturgill's first record, Shooter's old band.
Guest:Some of these guys toured with Jamie Johnson.
Guest:They played with Will.
Guest:I mean, they played with George... All these guys.
Guest:They played with all these... Are they old guys?
Guest:They were younger when they played with the older guys, but they're around our age, kind of.
Guest:And the best musicians I've ever heard.
Guest:And I went to the studio.
Guest:It's the first thing I've ever done where I walked out, and it was like...
Guest:this is better than i thought like this is a fucking killer country album right like what the fuck just happened because you know like i said it is a comedy record don't get me wrong but i really do have such a passion for country music no i listen to it it's like it sounds like a country record it is a country that's what and even some of the titles i mean it's just you know
Guest:There's one called, like, I can't fuck you off my mind.
Guest:Like, that's just, I can't drink you off my mind.
Guest:We just kind of, you know.
Marc:Yeah, why you said, you know, fucking someone out of your heart is, I've said that before.
Guest:It's a real thing.
Guest:And so it's like, I just love country music so much.
Guest:And I was like, it wasn't really my plan when I went into it.
Guest:I was like...
Guest:Obviously, I just wanted to make... I wanted to make, like, the most legit comedy... Right.
Guest:Authentic country comedy record ever made.
Marc:But the character... So, you know, when you go out and you're performing it... Yeah.
Marc:And you go... I'm just now starting to, yeah.
Marc:And you go out with the hat and... How does that feel?
Marc:Great?
Marc:It's so much fucking fun.
Guest:Because I'm... I always was envious of, like, you guys who had your stand-up.
Guest:You can go do your thing whenever you want.
Guest:And I go play these shows...
Guest:And I got the cowboy, and I'm like, yeah, fuck you.
Guest:And it's like this attitude, all the stuff building up inside.
Guest:Obviously, this is the therapist part.
Guest:There's all this fuck you, and like, fuck mainstream country, fuck... Because I do get pissed when I hear this kind of mainstream country slop.
Guest:And I hear... And also because of...
Guest:It's also weird for me, too, like I said, having all the family back in Nashville.
Guest:I grew up with this kind of... Nashville was a fucking ghost town, and now it's the hippest place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now it's Hipsterville.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I go back there, and these dumps are, you know, two grand a month.
Guest:And, like, it's kind of a new town.
Guest:It's really slick stuff, and I'm like...
Guest:There are some people doing what I consider real country, but there's not that much of it.
Guest:It's like, what if I could do both?
Guest:What if I could make a country record?
Guest:What if I could make a comedy record but actually make it legit country?
Guest:I mean, do it with these guys who are playing and making my favorite country records.
Marc:So what's the plan then?
Guest:The plan is, well, this is really, I mean, my guess is that the fans that we're marketing this to
Guest:It's like this is a whole different... It's really going to... Mojo's been playing a lot on Outlaw Countries.
Guest:So it's really like we're doing it legit country.
Guest:We're doing country venues.
Marc:So you'll play a whole set.
Marc:You playing guitar?
Guest:I play guitar and sing.
Guest:I mean, that was the part I was self-conscious about was my vocals.
Guest:And he's like, no, it sounds good.
Guest:And then you get into the argument too of like, what is authentic country?
Guest:Because I'm in the studio there and like...
Guest:To them, I'm this guy from Hollywood who came out and made a record.
Guest:I mean, we're friends now, but the first day or two, it was like the studio guys and they're like, this guy from a TV show comes out to make this record.
Guest:I'm like, we're literally out that window is the high school my mom went to.
Guest:Like, you're from fucking...
Guest:Ohio.
Guest:Like, what the fuck?
Guest:Like, what is, you know?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, these guys who put on their cowboy hats and the... Actually, there was one really good art... Because I'm trying not to use my real name in the shit, but one guy wrote a really good article about kind of like, why is this any less authentic than regular?
Guest:Like, these guys aren't actually cowboys that you're watching, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So that's kind of the joke to it, too.
Guest:But if the goal was to make it... And we want to do a comedy special, see what happens with that.
Guest:But the goal was to make it...
Guest:as legitimate and real and good sounding of a good record, if it works on both levels.
Guest:And right now, I don't think it's really made for the comedy crowd, because I don't know if they listen to this type of music.
Marc:My concern, or not even concern, was like, because it's not really a novelty record.
Marc:You know, it's a dirty country record, which, you know, it has been done before at different points of time as novelty records by country performers, but you're doing a whole other thing.
Guest:Well, that was the thing.
Guest:First of all, the whole thing was, it's like everything I do.
Guest:It's like when I go, I was in the studio, I was listening to the, we're listening back to the Masters, and I'm like, this is so fucking catchy, and plus it's so funny.
Guest:It's for everybody.
Guest:Then, of course, it was the same thing when I did my show.
Guest:I was like,
Guest:This is for everyone.
Guest:This is going to be the biggest fucking thing in the world.
Marc:Did you write Watch Black Women Hug?
Marc:Black Women Hug?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That's funny.
Guest:I record that on my Logic at home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I come home.
Guest:I'm like, this type of country music isn't played on the radio.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And comedy people really aren't.
Guest:And then I'm like, fuck.
Guest:Who the fuck?
Guest:I just did something.
Guest:I did it out of pure passion because I literally paid for the record.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This label's putting it out, but I own the masters.
Guest:I could put a stop to it right now, which the government may make me do.
Marc:Yeah, it's racy stuff.
Guest:But I was like, this is something I want to do, and I'm going to do it, and it's going to sell a million copies.
Guest:First of all, nobody sells it.
Guest:I did a Billboard interview in character, and I promised in the interview as Wheeler Walker Jr.
Guest:that my video was going to get more views than Adele.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We lost that by about 100 million.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, like that kind of brash... You did a music video, though?
Guest:Yeah, we've done two now.
Guest:I'm just more curious.
Guest:I just can't wait to get the album out because I just want to see people's... I want to see people's reaction, but I also want... I'm hoping there will be some sort of reaction.
Marc:I mean, my... Is it released already?
Guest:February 12th.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:So my main goal...
Guest:The only thing I care about is, and I've heard it a couple times, and I don't give a fuck hearing about it, but there's like, oh, it's some fucking dude from Jersey coming down making fun of us Southerners just because you don't know.
Marc:It's so weird because you've had it both ways.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's weird being, I think, a Jew in a way and being in culture a certain way, but just like the kind of flack you got at Tulane, now the Southerners, you're afraid, are going to put that on you?
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But you're not from Jersey.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Well, I'm just saying they don't know.
Guest:They just think it's some guy in a costume.
Guest:So it's some Hollywood dude.
Guest:But in no way, like, it's not making fun of the South.
Guest:It's really done out of passion for country music.
Guest:I just love this form of music that's going away.
Guest:And it's so, I mean, it's like, you know, like Sturgill's still doing it and Jason, those guys.
Guest:But it's really, I mean, the guy, I mean, Merle's left, Willie's left.
Guest:There's not, Billy Joe's still around.
Guest:There's not much of those guys around.
Marc:No, there aren't.
Guest:And...
Guest:I wanted to do a record, like I said, I wanted, as a musician my whole life, you're the same way, you're a musician.
Guest:It's like, what if I could do, and then you get the excuse of saying, oh, it's just, you know.
Marc:Right, but, you know, and also, like, there's something about the nature of a stage persona and a character.
Marc:And that was the fun part for me.
Marc:And a performing outfit.
Marc:I mean, I guess the real difference is that
Marc:You know, this music may not be far from your heart, but the character itself, like there was a time where those type of guys, like even Jerry Jeff or Waylon at certain points of this certain kind of like borderline outlaw character.
Marc:uh that you know they were earnest and they were they were really that guy and it's you you they live that life so so i think the only real um you know mockery would be in that you created this character to honor those guys not necessarily to make fun of them but you're not that guy
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Well, but also, were they, I mean, they were certainly more outlaw than me, but they weren't going around shooting.
Marc:No, no, no, no, but you know what I mean.
Guest:I know, but I know what you're saying.
Marc:What sold that, and this isn't like, it doesn't look like this character is essentially, this is sort of like a newer version, but, you know, it's not Chris Wayland and Willie and, you know...
Guest:Yeah, it's sounding a little... I was listening to so much George Jones at the time that I'm ripping off George Jones.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Marc:That's a real clean production.
Guest:But when you try to rip off someone who's that out of reach, it kind of comes off as original because you can't...
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, the interesting thing about George Jones is he was even more fucked up than his character.
Marc:Like, you know, he was sort of like a mainstream country guy who didn't wear a cowboy hat, wore a suit and whatnot, but he was fucking crazy drunk man.
Guest:How many ditches did he drive off?
Marc:A tractor?
Guest:The tractor store is great.
Guest:A bunch.
Marc:Yeah, but it's funny because I think the thing that makes it really different is that you're not seeking to make fun of the form.
Marc:You're actually seeking to embrace it in the way that you are capable of doing it.
Guest:Well, a couple of the people who I won't name in Nashville are just like, listen, you've got to go for it.
Guest:Nashville has become so shitty.
Guest:You're the guy.
Guest:You're going to go out there and talk about it, and you're going to wipe these people off the map.
Guest:I was like...
Guest:But fuck you, bitch, ain't getting played on K90 or whatever it is.
Marc:It'd be great if one could break through.
Guest:Well, I've talked to a couple stations.
Guest:It's so political, though.
Guest:A couple stations that when they bleep it, there's nothing left.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Well, that might have been a little short-sighted on your part.
Guest:Well, I wasn't thinking that.
Marc:I'm an outlaw.
Guest:At the time, I'm just thinking.
Ha, ha, ha.
Guest:I'm thinking the best.
Guest:You live in it.
Guest:But it was funny, too, because I was down there and I was, you know, again, listening to playback and I'm looking at the musicians.
Guest:I'm like, isn't it a bummer that like if I just made clean versions of this, they're so catchy that they get play on the radio and they all look at me at the same time.
Guest:They're like, have you fucking heard country radio recently?
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's fucking Milli Vanilli with twang.
Marc:No, it's almost like Def Leppard.
Guest:Def Leppard's a good example where it was just like, oh, he's got one arm, we'll just figure it out.
Marc:Well, it's just this mainstream kind of rock riffs.
Marc:Well, I heard this- From the 80s.
Guest:And again, I mean, a lot of it's, I mean, with rap, I mean, it's hip hop kind of.
Marc:Some of it, yeah, it's wild.
Guest:Some of the country producers I know actually had some interesting conversations with them.
Guest:Just keep-
Marc:Their whole thing is like- Like who, Mutt Lang?
Marc:Were you talking to Mutt Lang?
Guest:I've not spoken with Mutt Lang yet.
Guest:But these guys are just like, because the really good producers in Nashville, they still know all the Bowie and Eno.
Guest:Sure, of course.
Marc:They know all that shit.
Marc:They're musicians.
Marc:And they're like- And they've also had rock guys go down there and use their musicians for years.
Guest:Okay, I mean, Dylan did that.
Marc:Dylan did it and the Stones did it and, you know.
Guest:I mean, that was his best records was those Nashville.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:But they're just like these electronic, these sounds they're using, their whole thing is like these sounds that the new country guys are using.
Guest:are 20 years old like there's new stuff out there you know it's not like they're they're not mixing lcd sound system with country they're mixing like fucking millie vanilla you know like the old and it just sounds like fucking garbage and there's really no place to hear this type of music anymore well thank god you're championing it ben yeah well that's what i'm here for and you're uh you're you're okay you're making a living
Guest:Making a living.
Guest:We'll see.
Marc:Got a woman?
Guest:Don't have a woman.
Guest:That's kind of the main issue if you were to talk to my parents that they're kind of upset about.
Marc:When's that going to happen?
Guest:Once I kind of get my career in order, so I'm probably 65, 70.
Marc:Sure, that sounds about right.
Marc:Medicine, no medicine?
Guest:Am I on medicine?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, do you want to do another hour?
Guest:I don't know if we have that kind of time.
Marc:But you're properly medicated?
Guest:I'm properly, it's all- Living your life?
Guest:It's all prescribed.
Guest:I got a new thing where the company sends it to your house, don't even have to go to writing anymore.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:You on for the anxiety and the OCD?
Guest:Anxiety and OCD.
Guest:Anxiety is really the main issue I'm dealing with.
Marc:Me too.
Guest:What do you take?
Guest:I take Klonopin when needed.
Marc:Oh, see, I can't do that.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because I'm a fucking drug addict.
Marc:There'd be no reason not to take Klonopin eventually.
Guest:Well, I find it doesn't...
Guest:Yeah, I mean, of all my maladies I was talking about, I really did get lucky because I know a lot of friends who have gone down this road.
Guest:I just don't have that- The addiction thing?
Guest:I don't have the addiction thing.
Marc:So when you take a Conipin, what's it good for six hours or so?
Guest:Yeah, I'm really sensitive to it, so it lasts actually a little longer for me, but I don't, you know, like we played that, we opened up for David Allen Co., just as an example, a month ago, and I had a bunch of friends in Nashville and family, like, let's go out and party.
Guest:Drank all night, haven't drank since, didn't drink.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I just got lucky.
Marc:Be careful with the Klonopin and the drinking.
Guest:Yeah, I don't mix them, but I mean, I was like, I gotta have my Klonopin the day before, because I plan my drinking.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I have to plan, but...
Guest:I just realized, no, I haven't had a drink.
Marc:I just got lucky that I- Quantum Pen and booze, that's an instant blackout recipe.
Marc:You'll lose about four hours.
Guest:Well, one of my buddies was on at least that, because he definitely, it was funny, too, that Fogarty concert, a buddy of mine blacked out that show.
Guest:lost it huh he lost it but i just i don't know why it just came into my head but he brought i mean this was a kind of a no-brainer joke but it always makes me laugh and he was fucked up and fogarty brought his son out to play guitar enough you remember and he just looks over me he goes fortunate son
Marc:any go-to joke but it made me it made me that was a good one so now all right well let's uh let's figure this out so you own the rights of these songs yep and uh this is your record so theoretically which is something we don't get to do on this show very often because of labels and whatnot uh we can play a song i think you can play whatever the fuck you want we can play it on this show i own the publishing i own the yeah which one should we play if we're going to give people a taste of this thing
Guest:You want a ballad?
Marc:You want a... I want the one that is most heartfelt for you, Ben.
Marc:Or should I call you Wheeler?
Guest:The most heartfelt one everyone says is fuck you, bitch.
Guest:And that's got a real nice country production sound to it.
Guest:Want to play the hit?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Let's play the hit.
Marc:Hit in quotes.
Guest:Fuck you, bitch.
Guest:Play fuck you, bitch.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, thanks for talking, Ben.
Guest:Thanks for having me, man.
Guest:It's been a blast.
Guest:You say we're done You packed up your stuff It's really over Said you've had enough There's one thing I'd like to say Before you leave
Guest:Fuck you bitch, you broke my heart Fuck your friends, tearing us apart Fuck your dog, hope he never comes home Fuck you bitch, hope you wind up alone
Guest:Now you're gone and I'm by myself Jerking off to pictures on myself But before I swipe on your face I just scream
Guest:Fuck you bitch, you broke my heart Fuck your friends, tearing us apart Fuck your dog, hope he never comes home Fuck you bitch, hope you wind up alone
Guest:Word is out you found someone new.
Guest:Well, I hope he does it for you.
Guest:But if not, then you call me up.
Guest:Darling, please, please.
Guest:Fuck you bitch, you broke my heart Fuck your friends, for tearing us apart Fuck your dog, hope he never comes home
Guest:Fuck you bitch, hope you wind up alone Fuck you bitch, hope you wind up ain't alone
Marc:All right, so that's our show.
Marc:I guess there's really no reason for me to play.
Marc:We just had a song.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:I like talking to Ben.
Marc:Go buy that Wheeler Walker Jr.
Marc:record, man.
Marc:It's the hottest thing in country music right now.
Marc:The debut album, Redneck Shit, comes out tomorrow, February 12th.
Marc:Okay, so now you know that.
Marc:So, yeah, go to WTFPod.com for all you WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get on the mailing list.
Marc:Pick up a poster if you want it.
Marc:Do what you got to do.
Marc:Comment through Facebook.
Marc:Check my schedule.
Marc:I do have a few gigs coming up in April.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I haven't done one of these without music in a while.
Marc:Boomer lives!
you