Episode 652 - James Corden
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the funkadelics what's happening mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it today on the show james corden of the late late show and then before that i don't know what
Marc:That's not true.
Marc:I did a little research.
Marc:He's done some other things.
Marc:But that was one of those situations.
Marc:It's interesting.
Marc:As a comedian, there's a few jobs that comedians can do in show business.
Marc:You can do stand up.
Marc:You can write.
Marc:You can act in a TV show.
Marc:You can host.
Marc:So James Corden comes out of nowhere, seemingly, to host a major talk show.
Marc:And a lot of us were like, who the fuck is this guy?
Marc:Where the fuck this guy come from?
Marc:Now, it's not like I was up for the job, but you start to think in terms of of jobs available to your peers.
Marc:And back in the day, it might have been who's who am I going to be jealous of for getting that job?
Marc:But now it's just sort of thinking in terms of comics in general.
Marc:And this guy seemingly came out of nowhere.
Marc:And a lot of us were like, what, where, who, why?
Marc:And I talked to him about that.
Marc:He had a little of that going on himself, as it turns out.
Marc:It really was a pretty great conversation.
Marc:I enjoyed talking to him.
Marc:And, you know, that's what you learn.
Marc:I didn't know anything about him.
Marc:And we had a blast.
Marc:We had a nice chat.
Marc:Interesting guy.
Marc:Interesting background.
Marc:Comes from the part of the world that I'm not that familiar with and always enjoy hearing about.
Marc:That's why I need to talk to people.
Marc:It's got nothing to do with this show.
Marc:I don't know if you people realize that.
Marc:I need to talk to people so I am engaged in the human process and I'm not falling, let's say tumbling, tumbling and bouncing down a tunnel of self.
Marc:Gotta stay out of that one, man.
Marc:especially if you've tapped that mind you know what i'm saying that's all i'm saying i need to talk it's not about the show it's about engaging with other people and i and i think that some of these talks that i do here help others do that and i'm happy i i didn't i never knew that uh what has happened is helping in that way
Marc:I'm not checking in much with current events.
Marc:I'm detached from it.
Marc:And I guess it's because I don't manage my time properly or because I just honestly don't give a shit.
Marc:I'd rather have the tactile experience of running my thumb across my fingers in a moment of immediate dark reflection of the temporality of my body and my being.
Marc:What's Trump up to?
Marc:Nope, I'm going to run my hands along my arm and realize that, wow, I am an animal and I am a physical being.
Marc:And I have to appreciate that and build from there and realize that my experience here on earth is temporary but can be enlightening to myself and others.
Marc:And I can also learn how to give and accept love and move through the world with some grace and purpose.
Marc:That Trump's an asshole, right?
Marc:Fucking A, man.
Marc:It's a goddamn circus, this election so far.
Marc:I want to feel my feet on the pavement.
Marc:Perhaps I'll walk down my driveway with no shoes on and be very aware of the tactile experience of the new cement under my feet and realize I'm a human being on the planet Earth with very little time and I have to make the best of that time.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Wow, man.
Marc:We're in trouble, man.
Marc:This shit is crazy.
Marc:Kardashians?
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:What?
Marc:Maybe I'll lay down.
Marc:I'll lay down on the dirt and just wait.
Marc:Maybe I'll do that.
Marc:Hey, one thing you might have noticed, folks, about the clipset of Lorne Michaels that we've been playing in preparation for the dropping of the Lorne episode is that pretty much everyone who talks about Lorne has a Lorne Michaels impression.
Marc:So, as we approach...
Marc:the lauren michaels episode of wtf here is a super cut of many famous people doing their lauren impressions all right so enjoy this and i'll talk to you on the other side of it you could have eight snl folks in a row and they would all do a bad impression of them
Guest:Do you talk to him now?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, you do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, we're friends.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like he'll call and like, hello.
Guest:He's like, hello.
Guest:He's like, are you watching Jersey Shore?
Guest:Love this season.
Guest:I think that Snooki's really made a change.
Guest:I realize, oh, I've got the gig.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'm so shocked that I don't react with any excitement.
Guest:And then we stand up and I go, gosh, thank you.
Guest:I'm going to shake your hand.
Guest:Because I didn't know.
Guest:He's like, do whatever you have to do.
Guest:Lorne says from his throne on high, the moment at the end of that sketch, that's the moment you became a star.
Guest:I wasn't on the air for the next four weeks.
Guest:I'm like, if there's a lady and a dude, what are we making fun of local news?
Guest:What the fuck is that?
Guest:He's like, no, no.
Guest:He's like, well, you'll be... He had some crazy... He goes, like, you'll be Fred Astaire, and she'll be Ginger.
Guest:You'll, like, you know, give her the sex comedy, and she'll give you the sex.
Guest:And I was like, the dancers?
Guest:I didn't know what he was fucking talking about.
Guest:The guy would be a monster news anchor.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:I really feel that way, Lauren.
Guest:And he's like, no, that's pretty much the feedback I get from everyone.
Guest:And so then I call...
Guest:Hello.
Guest:I was like, hi, Lauren.
Guest:How are you doing?
Guest:So we want to move you into the cast.
Guest:Great.
Guest:When?
Guest:Monday.
Guest:So, you know, just, you know, when it comes time to write, just write something you can score on.
Guest:And we walked in and he started telling me this and he went, so you're moving to California.
Guest:And I said, yes.
Guest:And he went, like, he just kind of like, like, that's what he did.
Guest:He went, okay.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, you know, it's just been great working here.
Guest:And I think it's just, you know, and he was like, no, you know, I get it.
Guest:And you have kids and, you know, and you have to, you know, but, you know, they have backyards in Westchester, too.
Guest:So we got to the sketch.
Guest:He goes, Wayne's World.
Guest:Lauren looks around.
Guest:He goes, do we really want to read it?
Guest:And I went in my hand.
Guest:I went, hell yeah.
Guest:Like this, as a joke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he looked up at me and sort of like,
Guest:Be ready.
Guest:You know, this table will kill you.
Guest:It's fascinating to watch when someone's like, I'm not going to do that sketch.
Guest:He's like, no, I know, you're not.
Guest:And when you do it, it will be fine.
Guest:And someone's like, no, I know, but I'm not going to do it.
Guest:And he's like, you're not doing it, nor should you.
Guest:But I think when you find yourself doing it, you're going to end up doing it.
Guest:It's amazing.
Guest:He's incredibly persuasive.
Music
Marc:That was entertaining.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes, it was.
Marc:And folks, I promise you, I promise you, you will hear the real Lorne, the real Lorne Michaels on WTF talking to me very soon.
Marc:All the stuff I've been talking about for six years is finally coming to a head, my friends.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:What will happen after that?
Marc:Who knows?
Marc:I will try to move my vessel of blood, muscle, and bone into
Marc:Through time with grace and purpose.
Marc:I got an email from a trainer in my neighborhood and I'm going to take the chance.
Marc:I'm going to make the leap of faith and I'm going to go train and I'm going to make my vessel perfect.
Marc:Or I'm just going to feel better.
Marc:This perfection thing's overrated.
Marc:I was perfect for like 30 seconds yesterday.
Marc:And didn't enjoy it.
Marc:Did not enjoy it.
Marc:The music you're about to hear, folks, is by Kelly Pratt, who also makes music under the name Bright Moments.
Marc:He sent this to us, and we thought it was pretty cool.
Marc:So enjoy this.
Marc:All right, right now we are going to talk to an actor.
Marc:who is now the host of The Late Late Show.
Marc:It's on weeknights at 12.30 a.m.
Marc:on CBS.
Marc:I was on it with Jason Segel and Carl Reiner.
Marc:I will be on it again at some point, I imagine, but this is me and James Corden.
What the fuck?
What the fuck?
Marc:It's weird because like in the States, I don't know how it feels for a guy who grew up in Britain that I mean, like it seems when you're in Britain, like, you know, once you get out of the cities, you're like, wow, it's really fucking beautiful.
Marc:And yes.
Marc:And here everything's different and expectations.
Marc:I really wonder what what people's experiences versus their expectations.
Marc:Like how much have you traveled here?
Guest:A bit.
Guest:I've lived in New York at two points in my life.
Guest:One for six months, one for seven and a half months, and that was great.
Guest:And then living here, and then the only other place I've really been is Florida.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Going to like Disney World.
Guest:With the kid?
Guest:No, when I was a kid.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:I haven't been back for a very long time.
Guest:But yeah, when I was like 16, 17.
Marc:It's funny because even when I think of like just generalizing like Florida as a place, it's sort of like there's a hundred different types of places.
Guest:Well, that's the thing.
Guest:So I've been to Orlando.
Guest:I haven't been anywhere else.
Guest:Oh, you've got to really experience Florida.
Marc:I've really seen, I really feel like I know it as a place.
Marc:Go up north to the southern.
Marc:As you go north in Florida, it actually comes more southern in disposition.
Guest:But the weirdest thing about when you arrive, I can remember so vividly the first time I came to LA.
Guest:I came here.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:I was, what would I have been, like 27?
Guest:For show business?
Guest:Well, what happened was I had gone through quite a bad breakup with a girlfriend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And...
Guest:My agent had said, oh, they want to put you on tape for this thing.
Guest:And I was so sort of lost.
Guest:Do you remember what it was?
Guest:It was... Oh, I do.
Guest:It was the Jay Roach film with Zach Galifianakis and Paul Rudd that was based on the French movie...
Marc:Was it the institution movie?
Marc:No.
Marc:I don't remember.
Guest:No, it was based, really famous, based on a French film, Dinner for Schmucks.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:There it is.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I wouldn't go see that movie just based on the billboards.
Guest:Well, I didn't go and see it, but I did audition for it.
Guest:Yeah, but at the time, when it's like Paul Rudd, Steve Carell, Jay Roach, who I love, and I read it, and anyway, I was like, I'm not going to get this.
Guest:This is a part that's written for Zach Galifianakis.
Guest:Oh, it was that part.
Guest:Oh, 100%.
Guest:And I was like, he should 100% play this role.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:They want to see everyone.
Guest:They're really like that.
Guest:They brought you in to pressure Zach.
Guest:Well, I don't know that that's true, but I went and auditioned.
Guest:I said to Jay Roach at the time, I was like, so you're just seeing people in case Zach Galifianakis can't do this, right?
Guest:And he was like...
Guest:no absolutely not about two years after that he came or three years after that he came to see me in a play in new york and had forgotten that we'd met yeah and i said oh you don't remember i came in and auditioned for you um and you told me and i said to you you're seeing people in case jack zach galifianakis can't do this and he went yeah yeah that's what was happening yeah
Guest:But he had forgotten all about it.
Guest:But anyway, I came to L.A.
Guest:You're shattered.
Guest:I was not in the best state of mind.
Guest:And I came to L.A.
Guest:and I remember thinking, saying to him, oh, so where's the middle?
Marc:Where's the middle bit?
Marc:Where's the center?
Guest:Yeah, where's the center thing?
Guest:And when you realize there isn't one, and when you realize essentially Los Angeles...
Guest:isn't really a city, it's a collection of disparate towns, then you just go, oh, okay, well, I'm just going to find the town where me and my family will be happiest in.
Guest:And so now I feel I'm very much enjoying it.
Guest:But you're a beach guy, so you decided on the beach.
Guest:Well, I don't know if I am a beach guy, but my wife would like us to be a beach family.
Guest:I don't think I'm a beach guy.
Guest:Do you not get a lot of beach in Britain?
No.
Guest:Well, you don't get a lot of sun in Britain.
Marc:But there's water.
Marc:You're surrounded by water a bit, right?
Guest:Yeah, but there's no sun, so it's just cold.
Guest:It's a sad beach.
Guest:It's a coldness you never experience here.
Guest:Like the other day when it rained here, when it rains here, I am fascinated by the whole place.
Guest:People freak out.
Guest:It might as well be snow.
Guest:It's amazing how people are sliding.
Guest:Their cars are sliding.
Guest:People don't understand what to do with their wipers on the car.
Guest:The news just becomes all about rain.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Oh, my God, it's raining.
Guest:We're going to wash away.
Guest:Evacuate your house.
Guest:It's like, what are we doing?
Guest:If we had the rain that you had here at home, I promise you my dad would be like,
Guest:We should have a barbecue.
Guest:This weather is terrific.
Marc:Nice to cook outside.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Where did you grow up in Britain, though?
Guest:I grew up in a very small town called High Wycombe, which is in between... If you head out of London towards Oxford, it's about an hour outside of London in a valley.
Marc:Yeah, so it's pretty.
Guest:It's surrounded by prettiness.
Guest:The actual town of High Wycombe is quite a...
Guest:It's painfully ordinary.
Guest:Like you could drive through it and not notice anything?
Guest:The high street is the same as any other high street in any other town in Britain.
Guest:How did you end up there?
Guest:well my dad was in the royal air force so was a musician and was based in a place called uxbridge which was sort of close to london and he was very adamant that he didn't want us to grow up on the air force base he didn't think that that was a particularly so he was a lifer uh he was in it where he's a musician for 26 years in the air force what does a musician in the air force do
Guest:Well, they play at all the big ceremonies and things like that.
Marc:So even of all sizes, like even if it's a smaller ceremony, he's on contract in a way.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You're in the band.
Guest:But then he went to the first Gulf War.
Guest:He went to the first Gulf War.
Guest:What did he play?
Guest:Saxophone.
Guest:He brought his sax?
Guest:No, they went as stretcher bearers.
Guest:The musicians did.
Yeah.
Guest:yeah they went as stretcher bearers and they didn't they didn't you know nothing really happened but they were there it was incredibly traumatic for us but my dad was like they were they were essentially just sat around not really doing anything so that was the so that was when the coalition was formed and britain stepped in they sent some musicians down to carry stretchers and the war was sort of a bust in a way yeah the war didn't really i mean nothing like it was so strange because i can remember my dad horrible they bombed the shit out of the place but there was not a ground war really
Guest:there wasn't where my dad was stationed he was in bahrain and nothing really happened and he said he can remember that one someone got appendicitis and all of these medics just rushed into this you know go go go you know like he's got appendicitis he's gonna be okay but um but there was a panic in the family huh because he was like it was horrible for us he was away like six months i remember it so vividly how old were you
Guest:like 11 so in your mind it was just he's gone to war of course yeah and and it's so strange if you if i think back to that time where it was just inconceivable like my dad said when he signed up to the air force yeah it was inconceivable to him that there would even be another war ever that the war would ever be something that would ever that we would do ever again i was optimistic
Guest:Well, that's the thing.
Guest:And then you think about it now, and you just think, well, I don't know when there won't be.
Marc:Well, they've changed the business model of war.
Guest:Yeah, it's so strange.
Guest:You're not really fighting countries anymore.
Guest:You're fighting... Ideologies.
Guest:Yeah, it's very, very strange.
Marc:You just throw a coalition together, and that's how the business operates now.
Marc:Let's throw a small coalition together of a bunch of people from different armies and go deal with this problem.
Guest:I can't really get my head around it.
Guest:If I think about it too long, I really can't figure it out.
Marc:What kind of sax player was he?
Marc:Was he good?
Guest:Jazz.
Guest:He was a big jazz sax player.
Guest:Was he good?
Guest:Yeah, really good.
Guest:Is he still around?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:When we launched the show, he played with the band a couple of nights.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:And he absolutely loved it.
Guest:I've never really seen him as happy because now he's a Christian book salesman.
Guest:What?
Guest:He sells the Bible and Christian CDs and things like that.
Guest:Door to door or what?
Guest:No, two Christian bookshops around Britain.
Guest:That's very specific.
Guest:Very, very specific.
Guest:How did he get into that racket?
Guest:Well, him and my mother are both Christians, and we grew up in the Salvation Army.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:The Salvation Army.
Marc:I know what the Salvation Army is.
Marc:But here it's sort of where you drop your clothes off that you don't want anymore.
Guest:Well, this is the common misconception that the Salvation Army is a charity.
Guest:And actually, it's a church first and a charity second.
Guest:Was it started in Britain?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:A man called William Booth started the Salvation Army in Britain.
Guest:What was the angle?
Guest:So it's an actual church.
Guest:The angle was that this guy, William Booth, saw that, basically, that churches were becoming elitist places that weren't welcoming the poor or the marginalised or people around town.
Guest:And so he... Yeah, he would... He started a new movement where they would wear a uniform and they would march through the town and he would say, all are welcome here and all should come here and be...
Guest:And I welcome in this church and they would go and feed they had a church.
Guest:They had a church He said this will also be a charity where people will go and feed feed the homeless Bring your clothes who will clothe people will do things like that.
Marc:And that's what yeah, so is it was actually right it was a well-intentioned sort of Honest Christianity by the book for all people take care of the poor and
Guest:Yeah, well, that's what it was.
Guest:And then, oddly, that's kind of why my parents left recently.
Guest:They left when I was about 18, 19.
Guest:They left the Salvation Army because they didn't feel that that was what it was anymore.
Guest:They felt like it had become, again, quite an elite... Like, my mother's a social worker.
Guest:My sister's a social worker.
Guest:My dad's a Christian book salesman.
Guest:So they have a very much a... So they're helping people.
Guest:They want to.
Guest:And I think...
Guest:Yes, they left the Salvation Army and joined a church which was actually meeting a school at the end of our road because they feel like churches should be places that help people, I think.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:Yeah, my sense of the Salvation Army is that they're ringing bells on the street at Christmas.
Marc:Sometimes there's a Santa involved.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Christmas caroling, I would go and do that every Saturday.
Guest:Every Saturday morning, I would go and play the trumpet in a little town near us called Marlow.
Guest:And we would stand on a roundabout in between a junction and just play Christmas carols.
Marc:Was that your introduction into show business?
No.
Guest:Well, the sandwich not only was my introduction to show business, it didn't feel like much.
Guest:It didn't feel like it was show business in the middle of a turning circle, just, you know, playing Silent Night on a trumpet.
Guest:How many kids were usually involved in that?
Guest:It would be like about seven or eight of us.
Marc:So it's sort of sad.
Marc:It was tragic.
Guest:And you take a cup of tea with you and you'd put your mouthpiece in the tea because it was so cold.
Guest:You're worried.
Guest:I mean, I just don't even if looking back now, it was actually torture.
Guest:You're doing God's work, man.
Marc:well were we i don't know so well that's interesting because of the i don't know that of course i didn't know that about the salvation army but they've always been there's something about practical christianity that's sort of uh uh impressive as opposed to you know just sort of like passive christianity you belong to a church it's a community thing it's a social thing but they seem like their hearts are in the right place
Guest:Well, it's a weird thing.
Guest:My dad always says, whenever I sort of talk to him about various different things, he just says, you have to remember that churches are groups of people.
Guest:And wherever there are groups of people, there are going to be huge mistakes.
Guest:And he just says, you know, and he just says,
Guest:Yeah, I mean, like sometimes I'll say to him, you know, what if this is all just... What if this is just all just not true in any way?
Guest:Religion.
Guest:Religion.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Just not true.
Marc:Now, is this a conversation you had last week?
Marc:We've had it a few times.
Guest:And I go, what if this is just not... Like, you die and you get wherever you're going and it just wasn't the case.
Guest:None of this.
Guest:Or nothing happened.
Guest:Everything you've believed in, nothing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I go, how are you going to feel?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he goes, well, do you know what?
Guest:He goes, I've had a great life.
Guest:He goes, I'm proud of all three of my children.
Guest:I'm proud of the relationship I've got with your mother.
Guest:I've travelled.
Guest:I've lived the life I'm proud of.
Guest:I've lived the life I've wanted to live.
Guest:And then he goes, but what if I'm right and you get there?
Guest:He goes, spend a bit of time thinking about that.
LAUGHTER
Marc:he just turns it around for a split second you do go oh yeah but that's like sort of perfect in in terms of uh you know i i think that having a righteous life and being able to uh own that and take responsibility for it and and be uh uh kind of um you know satisfied it's such a tricky thing it's a very difficult thing well also i think the biggest trick is you know like that they're
Guest:There are many people who will talk about being Christians and talk about church and faith.
Guest:And when you just scratch past the surface, there is very little of their life which is remotely Christian in any way.
Guest:If anything, they're just joining a club.
Guest:Whereas, you know, like whenever people say to me about my parents, oh, that's a Christian, but you say they're Christians.
Guest:I go, no, no, no, yeah, but they're good Christians.
Guest:Like, they're really nice.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:They're like...
Guest:they're really cool with whatever you want to do right there's no sense of uh you know and i'm i'm very proud of them for that that there's not any form of judgment or uh you're wanting to impress any of this but also it seems that one way or the other
Marc:Your entire family, I mean, I'm not outside of you.
Marc:Perhaps you've framed your particular trajectory as service, but it seems... Well, no, it was the answer, but yes.
Marc:But it seems like they lead lives of service.
Guest:yeah i mean i hope yeah yes i think so social workers yeah very definitely my mom you know being a social worker my my younger sister being a social that's an insane job dude it's a relentless crazy and it's thankless and it's um painful and i didn't realize growing up quite how
Guest:quite what my mum's life was when she was going to work and then coming home.
Guest:And then just, you know, me just moaning about what we're having for dinner or whatever.
Marc:And she's just spent the day dealing with drug addicts and domestic abusers.
Guest:Yeah, taking children into care and separating children from... Sisters from brothers in families where they're worried that the father may be this.
Marc:It's just a different...
Marc:When did you gain the appreciation?
Marc:When did it sort of dawn on you that like, oh my God.
Guest:Well, I remember, one thing I do remember is our school, we had this thing, I don't know if this happens at school here, a thing called the Harvest Festival.
Marc:No, that does not happen here.
Marc:It's ridiculous, right?
Marc:Maybe something like it happens.
Guest:It's a harvest festival where basically you have to bring in like tins of soup and tuna fish.
Marc:Oh yeah, we get that.
Marc:Can drive.
Guest:Yeah, whatever.
Guest:And the harvest festival this year and we were doing what we were going to do in honor of the harvest festival.
Guest:We're going to walk around our little village in the school in costume.
Guest:and uh so different people said oh you guys are going to be cows and you guys are gonna shoot and i was put in a group like six of us as um squirrels right you guys are gonna another show business story yes well and i'm about i'm about sort of seven eight yeah this time squirrels yeah so i do that thing as you do a squirrel i just came home and went um
Guest:hey, mum, in two weeks' time, the Harvest Festival was doing this thing and I need to be a squirrel, okay?
Guest:And mum's like, yeah, okay, got it.
Guest:She's going to make the costume.
Guest:Of course, I presume that my saying that means that my mum knows exactly what to do and build a squirrel costume.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So Sunday night before the Monday, I come home and go...
Guest:Hey, mum, what's the deal on this squirrel costume?
Guest:And her eyes looked in a way that just said, you know, oh, my goodness.
Guest:I have no idea.
Guest:I'm suddenly ringing bells.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there's nothing.
Guest:No squirrel costume.
Guest:No shops are open.
Guest:It's 8 p.m.
Guest:on a Sunday.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I went to school.
Guest:in a brown jumper a brown sweater yeah um a pair of my sister's brown leggings like tights yeah yeah my regular sneakers and then my mum stuffed
Guest:cotton wool yeah and two pairs of rolled up jeans yeah into a pair of her tights yeah and safety pinned it on my ass that was it that was my squirrel costume so i just basically looked like i had a huge turd just hanging off me while i'm wearing a pair of skin tight leggings yeah
Guest:I get to school and there's some kids have got, like, wire, bushy tails that are up above.
Guest:They've got, like, paws, makeup, everything.
Guest:I had nothing.
Guest:Zero.
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:To the point, it was that tragic that even the bullies were like, oh, his mum has really done him over there.
Guest:His mum has just... So, and I remember...
Guest:So we walk around the town.
Guest:It all splits open.
Guest:So as it walks back, I've got a torn pair of tights hanging off my ass.
Guest:I'm holding two pairs of jeans under my arms and there's just balls of cotton wool all just following me on the floor.
Guest:And I saw my mum who had come home from work and was stood on the road.
Guest:And she looked so sad.
LAUGHTER
Guest:And I can remember, I got really upset when I got back.
Guest:And I remember the teacher saying, you will realise one day what your mum has done today.
Guest:And you'll realise the work that she does.
Guest:And this won't be a thing.
Guest:She was wrong.
Guest:It very much is.
Guest:It scarred me for life.
Guest:But, you know, it does play on your mind.
Marc:Yeah, it's interesting when you have these, you don't quite see your parents as people for a while, sometimes forever, you know.
Guest:Yeah, definitely.
Guest:I mean, certainly my having children has made me realize, you know, I just go, oh my goodness, you really...
Guest:It's a chore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:You've got two?
Guest:I have two.
Guest:My son is four and my daughter is 11 months.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, you've got a baby.
Guest:So you're not even sleeping, really.
Guest:We are now.
Guest:She's sleeping through.
Guest:But we moved to America when she was five weeks old.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:She's fresh out of the oven there.
Guest:Yeah, 100%.
Guest:And just tough.
Guest:And then just trying to launch the show and things like that.
Marc:But it was, yeah.
Marc:Let's go back there.
Marc:So your parents, I mean, I have to assume that on some level,
Guest:that your father was a musician he had dreams uh well i think my dad's dreams mainly were to get out of the house that he was growing up in mostly he joined the air for yeah it wasn't good at all and joined the air force when he was 16. is he from a big city uh no he's from well he's from a small he was from stoke-on-trent in the midlands yeah so yeah right in the middle of britain yeah he's from yeah
Guest:Everything sounds like Hobbit.
Guest:Well, it is.
Guest:Well, he was even from, I'm saying Stoke-on-Trent.
Guest:He was actually from, and you'll like this one, Utoxeter.
Marc:Ah.
Guest:Yeah, which does sound like it's somewhere.
Guest:It sounds terrific.
Marc:Yeah, down in Middle Earth.
Marc:Maybe evil.
Marc:Maybe there's a battle of good and evil going on there.
Guest:Mr. Frodo, we've got to go through Utoxeter.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Come on, let's do it.
Guest:You weren't in any of those movies, were you?
Guest:I wasn't.
Guest:I did audition for some Ganges.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Marc:How did you come upon performing?
Marc:Because you weren't a great squirrel, and that wasn't your fault.
Guest:Just a terrible squirrel.
Guest:I just don't remember a time.
Guest:I honestly don't remember a time where it wasn't what I wanted to do.
Guest:I cannot remember.
Guest:I didn't want to be a soccer player.
Guest:You love soccer, though.
Guest:I do, but luckily that was never something that I wanted to do.
Guest:I didn't want to do that.
Guest:There was just nothing else.
Guest:I just wanted to perform and show off, really.
Marc:What was your original sort of idea?
Marc:Did you sing?
Guest:I just wanted to do it.
Guest:I wanted to do it all.
Guest:I loved singing.
Guest:I loved dancing.
Guest:I loved acting.
Guest:I loved...
Guest:sort of showmanship, if you like.
Marc:What was the first time you did it?
Guest:Well, I remember I used to do impressions.
Guest:Who'd you do?
Guest:Well, no one, people like Michael Barrymore and Cilla Black, who you wouldn't know.
Marc:I don't, but it doesn't mean I don't have a lot of fans in England.
Guest:Yes, or like Bruce Forsythe.
Guest:Good game, good game.
Guest:Nice to see you, to see you.
Guest:And the audience would go, nice.
Guest:And so I would do that.
Guest:See, I don't know who that is, but I enjoyed that impression a lot.
Guest:And I would do a lot of that.
Marc:At school?
Guest:At school, at the Salvation Army, on a Sunday, I would do little bits.
Marc:Would you do it in front of people?
Marc:You'd be like, now here's my son, your mom, and you'd do it in front of the audience at Salvation Army?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I honestly can't put my...
Guest:finger on like when or a time I just cannot remember a time when I didn't want to do this and I can remember we would have this careers lady coming to our school where she would talk about careers and what you're going to do and things and I would say I'm going to be an actor and she'd say well no you'd like to be an actor but you've got to have something to fall back on and I'd say well no because if
Guest:You're just contemplating any form of failure.
Guest:This is what I'm going to do.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:I don't think I've ever thought about it like that.
Marc:Because I know that you're compelled.
Marc:And you get it in your head and that's what you're going to do.
Marc:And some people, for whatever reason, have the fortitude to throw their life away and do that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.
Marc:But I never really I always thought, like, if you have a plan B, you're just a hobbyist or you're but but to frame it sort of like, well, that's that's actually setting yourself up for failure.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, well, I also think it depends on what you think, what you consider to be making it.
Guest:Like, for me, like, just the doing it is the reward.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I feel like if you say you want to be an actor and you want to be an actor and you can eat and you can live, then that's it.
Guest:You've done it.
Marc:You're earning an honest dollar in a way.
Marc:Making a living.
Guest:Just if you can get by and act, then it's...
Guest:You're just one of the lucky ones.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You just don't have to because it's if it's something that you truly love doing, then you're never really in a position where you're just, I don't know, working as an insurance salesman with a dream of being an actor, you know, because you think, well, and that's.
Guest:That's the thing, I think.
Marc:But that's funny because sometimes, given what I've gone through, I mean, obviously our careers are much different, but when I hear people that say that, like, oh, I always wanted to do that, there's part of me that thinks like, you're probably lucky you didn't embark.
Marc:It's not that I envy their stability, but there's something about living with the yearning or the heartbreak of not pursuing a dream, but having an okay life.
Marc:That as you get all along in this business and you see how heartbreaking it can be for some people where you're like, you might have made the right choice.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:But because also, you know, you do have to be talented.
Guest:And that's the truth.
Guest:You do have to have an ability to do it.
Guest:So if you've got an ability to do it, like I just always believe.
Guest:that, and maybe stupidly and foolishly, that true talent, raw talent, absolute talent, will always get a shot.
Marc:I like to believe that too.
Guest:Whether it works out or not, whether the stars align after that moment, who knows?
Guest:But like, actual raw talent will always get a shot.
Marc:Right.
Marc:If it doesn't destroy itself before it gets its opportunity.
Marc:Well, there is that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also, like, you know, I think that at some point as a talented person, you have to realize, you know, what your talents are.
Marc:I think that helps.
Marc:That, you know, like, I know what I can do and I know what I might not be able... I know what I'm right for and what I can handle.
Guest:Well, that's the truth.
Guest:I mean, because...
Guest:yeah and that and that can be quite a hard thing at times to learn to go oh okay i yeah of course love to be daniel day lewis but i don't know if i've got the necessary intensity to really fully commit 13 hours a day to being president lincoln but at the same time i don't know that he
Guest:would be able to do this over here.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I like that the second half of it is like, he couldn't do it, I didn't.
Guest:Yeah, he couldn't.
Guest:Host a talk show.
Guest:He couldn't do a sketch.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:I'd love to see him.
Guest:How much would you love to see Daniel Day-Lewis in a comedy?
Guest:It'd be great.
Guest:I just think he'd be amazing.
Guest:Did you grow up looking up to that guy?
Guest:Like who were your guys?
Guest:The big one for me was a guy, I don't know if you'd have heard of, but he is a, I mean, just for my money, one of the greatest comedy actors I can remember is a man called Ronnie Barker, who was in a sketch duo called The Two Ronnies.
Guest:He then did, he had a hit rate, which was phenomenal.
Guest:He was in The Two Ronnies, which was at the time the biggest sketch show on television.
Guest:And then he did a,
Guest:um he also had a sitcom called porridge uh-huh uh which was written by dick clement and ian lafrenet which was just i mean gobsmackingly brilliant sick ronnie barker's his name ronnie barker and then he was also in another sitcom called open all hours where he and was like astonishing and then he just quit and ran an antique shop i have respect for that he just went i'm done actually
Guest:I'm actually done.
Guest:And he opened an antique shop.
Guest:He was interested in antiques and he opened an antique shop and that was it.
Guest:Did you go to the antique shop?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Because he died quite a while ago, but he almost got coaxed out of retirement.
Guest:by Trevor Nunn to play Falstaff in Henry V at the National, which, if I think about it, might be the most dream casting I could ever imagine.
Guest:But him I looked up to.
Guest:I was really a huge fan of his.
Guest:Rowan Atkinson.
Guest:Jim Carrey.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I saw Jim Carrey the other day in a Whole Foods and I don't remember the last time that I just like lost my shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I genuinely couldn't.
Guest:He was walking towards me and I just froze in a way that clearly Jim Carrey is used to seeing people freeze.
Guest:And he went, hey man.
Guest:And I went, I just think you're amazing.
Yeah.
Guest:And then he walked off and he was in the queue and I was going to my wife.
Guest:She was like, you okay?
Guest:I was like, it's Jim Carrey.
Guest:And she was like, all right, but hold it together.
Guest:He's right.
Guest:He's literally eight feet away from you.
Guest:And I was going, and I actually went to her, I don't care.
Guest:That's Jim Carrey.
Guest:And pointed in his face and he looked at me like...
Guest:what do you do yeah but um did he know you well there was a there was an air of oh i've seen your face before i don't think he would have ever thought oh there's james courton right i don't think he thought that but i i think he greeted me in a way that was to say oh i recognize your face from a thing yeah and uh yeah but like yeah he was was that disappointing like i i do a
Guest:No, it wasn't at all.
Guest:I never expect anyone to have seen a second of our show.
Marc:But that's sort of weird because the difference between you and me in that situation would be like, and I would be like, hey, do you have any interest in maybe talking?
Marc:I do a thing.
Guest:Well, yeah, but then, but then, see, but like, I think if I had a podcast like you do now, then, then, because this is such an informal atmosphere.
Guest:This is such a nice thing to do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't know that, you know, that this is such a joyously unpressurized environment.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And actually, saying to someone, do you want to come on the Late Late Show on CBS?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's a very, very different question.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:Whereas actually you saying, oh, I have a podcast, which is hugely popular.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The President of the United States came on it, and I'd love to talk to you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's an air of...
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:You'd like to talk to me?
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:And I don't know that that happens on a talk show that's on, you know, four nights a week.
Guest:Okay, so which Whole Foods?
Guest:It was Brentwood.
Guest:Brentwood Whole Foods.
Guest:Don't go back.
Guest:I've been every night wearing a Late Late Show with James Corden t-shirt.
Guest:I haven't seen him.
Guest:Have you tried to get him on?
Guest:uh you know i don't you know i just bookers just of course but i'm not gonna go oh can you try and book jim carrey i saw him in whole foods last night why not well i'd write to him first i mean that's what we've done with like the the sort of you know the bigger people that we've had you write to him personally well we yeah we like you know to get like stevie wonder and stuff like that we just you know you just that that sort of mission started back in like june 5th right so the bookers start reaching out
Guest:Well, yeah, or we reached out and we knew someone who knew someone and just things like that.
Marc:So you book your show much the way I book mine.
Marc:That's hilarious.
Guest:Pretty much, yeah.
Guest:Well, no, because then there's other... No, we have an amazing booking department, but sometimes when you're going after Stevie Wonder... But I use bookers.
Marc:Have you ever had that situation where they say, could you write a personal letter?
Marc:I think it would make a difference if you reach out personally.
Guest:And it's still a no.
Guest:That's the worst one.
LAUGHTER
Guest:honestly the gracious letter this will make a real difference yeah yeah yeah it's gonna be a no on that maybe next time oh it's not what it used to be show business so what did you go to acting school i didn't no i was at uh i left school um i went 16 and i started i went to college for a year to do a performing arts b tech thing and then b tech was it it's like a national diploma so the idea is you would do that and
Guest:then start then then go to apply for drama school go to drama school again all right right but i um i had signed up with like a a local i used to go to an after school stage school in high wickham um where they had a a real
Guest:great time I mean it's an amazing stage school now and is a much bigger thing than when I was there but there was a little period where there was myself and then a few years below me was Eddie Redmayne and then a few years below him was Aaron Johnson the actor Aaron Ted Johnson so
Guest:we were um and like some you know like eddie and i would be in like these sort of end of year things where i would sing like sit down you're rocking the boat and then eddie would sing like we're walking in the air from the snowman and stuff and uh and so i was doing i was in the in this btech national diploma and i got um
Guest:I got offered a part in a musical in the West End that I auditioned for called Martin Gare that was written by the guys who wrote The Miserable and Miss Saigon.
Guest:How'd they find you?
Guest:Well, I was with this stage school and they had an agency.
Guest:So I spent pretty much my whole school life between the age of like 12 and 16 just auditioning for anything that I could audition for and I didn't get one job.
Marc:So they had an agency that worked with the company.
Guest:That was part of the stage.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And now when you saw Eddie Redmayne as a kid, were you like that, guys?
Marc:Good.
Guest:Well, he was great.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, the greatest thing I could say about Eddie is he feels like the same person that he was then.
Guest:He looks like he's probably the same age.
Guest:Yeah, but he's unbelievably warm and generous.
Guest:Did you see that movie?
Guest:Of course, yeah.
Guest:I mean, he's astonishing, and I think his new movie is going to be amazing too.
Guest:The Danish Girl, he just looks incredible in it.
Guest:He's an unbelievable talent.
Marc:Is he more along the lines of,
Guest:who we were just talking about yeah yeah kind of right i think yeah i think there is there is a there is a yes yeah without question there is a an element of uh well my theory on acting is i think that there is two
Guest:There are two types of actors in the world and that's it.
Guest:There are only two actors in the world and there are aliens and there are humans and neither are better.
Guest:Genuinely.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Neither are better.
Guest:There is no better in this.
Guest:We just watch them in different ways.
Guest:So your aliens are, you know, Daniel Day-Lewis, Mark Rylance, Meryl Streep, Ralph Fiennes, where you look and you go, I don't know how they're doing that.
Marc:Meryl Streep, right?
Marc:This is amazing.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Here you go...
Guest:Well, she might be one of the few who cross over.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And I know what you're saying.
Guest:But you look at them on a pedestal and go, this is astonishing to me.
Guest:I don't know how they're doing that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then there are actors who, whoever they're playing and whatever they're doing, are representing us, the audience.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Philip Seymour Hoffman.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:He's a great example of someone who is astonishing and amazing and yet finds a humanity.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which you always...
Guest:It is representing... Can't hide it.
Guest:Yeah, you.
Guest:And so you can watch like Mark Rylance or Benedict Cumberbatch playing Hamlet.
Guest:And then you can watch one of my favourite actors in the world, an actor called Simon Russell Beale, with the same text.
Guest:And one you're watching going, oh my goodness, I don't know how this is happening.
Guest:And the other one going, oh, well, that's me up there.
Guest:Oh, interesting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I like that.
Guest:And I think Eddie is an alien.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you are a human.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Good.
Marc:I think that's true.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think that's a beautiful way to look at it.
Guest:That's just what I've always thought.
Guest:And I don't think there's any...
Guest:I don't think there's any better or worse.
Guest:It's just the way that you... You know, Ralph Fiennes.
Guest:Ralph Fiennes, astonishing actor, unbelievable.
Guest:But watch him in Made in Manhattan with Jennifer Lopez.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he doesn't seem at home.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Well, it's interesting because a lot of those people are not... They're not...
Marc:leading men in the way that they're not thought of for a romantic comedy.
Marc:They do something larger than life.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And something that, like you said, is unexplainable.
Guest:It's a transformation that you can't imagine you would ever be able to undertake.
Marc:Suspender.
Marc:johnny depp same michael you know fassbender johnny depp's one of those interesting guys and maybe fassbender will turn out to be but i don't think so that johnny depp like it's rare that an alien becomes like a movie star personality yes you know what i mean like very rare even somebody like clooney yeah who is like one of the greatest movie stars we've ever had uh is is definitely a human
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And not unlike even these people like Johnny Depp, who is arguably a great movie star, but he secretly is an alien.
Guest:Without question.
Guest:I don't even think secretly.
Guest:I think just it's true.
Guest:It's an alien thing.
Guest:And his performance in Pirates of the Caribbean is as astonishing as any other performance you'll see because you're like...
Guest:With this text, this text, this whole idea, you're making me believe in this guy.
Guest:This is amazing.
Guest:Did you see Black Mass?
Guest:I haven't seen it yet, but it looks incredible.
Marc:It's heavy, dude.
Guest:Yeah, it looks amazing.
Guest:He's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He's great in it.
Guest:Yeah, of course he is.
Guest:But you're right.
Guest:But that thing with George Clooney is a perfect example where George Clooney...
Marc:whether it's michael clayton or it's what a great movie that is no one talks about that fucking movie it is amazing you know what saddens me about like you know about there's movies like that that are clearly sort of grown-up sophisticated intelligent movies and it really like no one talks about that movie but it's a fucking great it's a masterpiece that movie
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, more people talk about that movie than talk about others.
Guest:It's very odd.
Guest:Some movies feel like they're just posters.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, definitely.
Guest:Do you know what I mean?
Guest:They are.
Guest:It's like, oh.
Guest:I won't go because of a poster.
Guest:Oh, that's a poster.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Won't go.
Guest:It's very strange.
Guest:But, you know, yeah.
Guest:Clooney's just a phenomenal presence.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Charisma that is unquantifiable, actually.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But he loves it.
Marc:I mean, I think that's the other thing about movie stars versus actors is
Guest:yes is that you know movie stars you know thrive they're good at it yeah good at the whole thing the whole thing tom cruise yeah i mean tom cruise is a lesson they should show tom cruise on talk shows to actors in uh drama schools going if you become famous yeah this is how you should be on a talk not on oprah specifically but maybe on other ones
Guest:Yeah, but just look like you're happy to be there.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's basically, if you look like you're thrilled to be there, you're halfway through.
Marc:And do it to a degree that they don't even care if you're hiding things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You just come out and just, oh, this is fantastic.
Guest:This is great.
Guest:That's the way to do it.
Marc:Yeah, I've always said about Tom Cruise is that what he's really good at is focus and hanging off of things.
Marc:That you give him something to focus on intensely or something to hang off of, it's great.
Marc:I love him, Tom Cruise.
Marc:I genuinely... I just watched Magnolia again.
Guest:Oh, that film.
Guest:That film is genuinely, I think it might be my favorite movie.
Marc:I was sort of hard on it initially, but then I watched it again and I was like, wow.
Marc:I didn't even remember seeing the last third of that movie.
Marc:And it's amazing.
Guest:The bravery in that film, which is where I think Paul Thomas Anderson is probably the best film director, I think, around in recent years, is that film's got two openings.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:the the sheer bravery of that movie to then like every i've never i don't remember a time i've been as aware that i'm loving something the first time i'm watching it i remember being in the cinema going well i'm loving this film
Guest:You know, well, I'm in.
Guest:I'm in.
Guest:The music, the whole thing, this cannot be coincidence.
Guest:This surely cannot be that.
Guest:And then when they burst into song, that's the Amy Mann track, and then the frogs falling from the sky, you're like, you've done it.
Guest:You've done it.
Guest:You've got this film made.
Guest:In a world in which this is everything you'd ever want to do.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:It's just astonishing.
Marc:Oh, it's beautiful to hear.
Guest:Oh, William H. Macy.
Marc:Oh, great.
Marc:Donnie Smith.
Marc:Oh, I mean, come on.
Marc:Philip Seymour Hoffman.
Marc:Julianne Moore.
Marc:Julianne Moore is unbelievable in that film.
Marc:Jason Robards.
Marc:It's crazy.
Guest:It's wall to wall.
Guest:Some of the best performances.
Guest:John C. Reilly.
Guest:Great.
Guest:It's also well worth watching.
Guest:There's some outtakes on the DVD where John C. Reilly looks like he's the most fun person to work with on the planet.
Marc:Yeah, I bet you he is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's so funny, because the first guy on IMDb is Pat Healy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How did that happen?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:All right, so you do Martin Gare.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And then you do the History Boys, which was a big break.
Guest:Well, that was quite a while after that.
Guest:I did...
Guest:I did a movie after that with a director called Shane Meadows.
Guest:I don't know if you're familiar with Shane's work.
Guest:I did a film called 24-7.
Guest:It's a black and white boxing movie with Bob Hoskins.
Guest:Oh, fucking Hoskins.
Guest:Oh, man, incredible.
Guest:And that film, I managed to get an agent in London.
Guest:And then I had worked a bit different TV things, little bits here and there.
Guest:And then I was in this play called The History Boys, which was a real turning point.
Marc:My assistant's sort of like, he's in the original cast.
Guest:He's a real actor guy.
Guest:It was a real... I mean, as plays go, it was incredible.
Guest:It's Alan Bennett, Nicholas Heitner, who I think is the best theater director in the world.
Guest:I really do.
Guest:It was just a thing which you sign up for a play for six months and then...
Guest:three years later you're still doing it but you've you've traveled you've made a movie of it and you've traveled to Hong Kong New Zealand Australia and then we finished by doing sort of six and a half months on Broadway did you think that do you think that sort of made that solidified your your sort of place that that gave you the
Guest:Well, oddly, it kind of didn't because I'd done quite a bit of TV work and I did a film with Mike Lee called... How was that?
Marc:Amazing.
Guest:Which movie was that?
Guest:I did a movie called All or Nothing with Mike Lee.
Marc:Like his movies are just like... One of the great...
Guest:sadnesses in my life is that i have not and i can i can fix it is that i haven't kept up with his movies well this one is particularly dark and i'm very very proud of it i play timothy spall and leslie manville's son and it's basically the whole film is set across a weekend on one estate in london
Guest:And I think there are real moments of beauty in the film.
Guest:Sally Hawkins is in the movie.
Marc:I'm just trying to figure out if I've seen it.
Guest:What was it about?
Guest:It's set on a council estate in London.
Guest:It's basically about the inhabitants of that council estate.
Guest:It's hard to pinpoint.
Guest:What's a council estate?
Guest:A council estate is a house where basically the state is, you put people up in these high-rise blocks of flats in quite a rough area of London.
Guest:And it's just about, it's about love and family really is what it's actually about.
Guest:But it's...
Guest:It's a tough watch.
Guest:But I had done that and I'd done the film with Shane and I'd done a couple of TV things.
Guest:So when the History Boys happened and became this unbelievable play, all of the boys...
Guest:There was eight boys similar age in the film.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All coming in with these film scripts under their arm for different roles they're being considered for or offered for.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would get like the two pages of that script for like the guy who plays a news agent or... So you were a punchline.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or like a bubbly judge.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In something.
Guest:And I'd be like...
Guest:oh, I always thought that I would, oh, okay.
Guest:And it felt like people at home were saying, oh, no, we think you're very good.
Guest:We think you're very good for this.
Guest:You're really not going to be the star, you know?
Guest:And so that was when myself and my friend Ruth Jones, who is an unbelievable actress and writer at home, she hadn't written anything at home before this, and nor had I, and we just said...
Guest:we should why don't we write a TV show together so I had been at a wedding where I sort of came back thinking I don't know that anyone had shown a wedding on television like one I'd actually been to yeah and we started talking about maybe writing a show about our couples and family and we wrote this show called Gavin and Stacey which
Guest:To everybody's surprise, it launched on a small cable channel called BBC Three, which not everyone in the UK has.
Guest:And our first episode launched with like 500,000 viewers.
Guest:And by the time we ended it... That's big, right?
Guest:It's not big.
Guest:It wasn't big then.
Guest:It wasn't...
Guest:small now it's huge it wasn't small for that channel but it was kind of fine right and then we um when we ended the show we did like 22 episodes over three years we did we only do seasons of six or seven episodes i love that about british television yeah it makes sense to me and we um
Guest:By the time we ended it, we ended it on BBC One.
Guest:And I think we had like 14 million viewers tuned in.
Marc:So it was on the air for three years?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it sort of became, it pretty much became like the number one comedy in the country.
Marc:Well, that's amazing because I don't know the show because I didn't, like, I'm not up to speed.
Marc:with British comedy, British television, like I'm sad that I don't know who Ronnie Barker is, but I didn't grow up with it.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I mean, I know it's available, and I could have done a little more research, but I guess it's just not going to happen for me and you.
Marc:No.
Marc:I'm not going to be like, I love that one episode.
Marc:Well, it was a long time ago.
Guest:But people do... I do get occasional people like...
Guest:Kristen Shaw was on the show the other day, and thrillingly, for me, he was a big fan of the series.
Marc:Well, there's definitely people in my community, in the comedy community, who are huge Anglophile, you know, like British comedy fans.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I've always... It's sort of fascinating to me, the intimacy...
Marc:of of of what i picture the bbc's business model to be and that the opportunity they seem to give comedic talent because there's a lot of people i've talked to in here um like dylan morin um and you know like uh simon pegg and edgar wright yeah i've not talked to ricky gervais but it seems that you know if you have a profound comedy talent and you have an idea that you'll get a shot well ricky is ricky and steven are the best example i think
Guest:where they made a little short film.
Guest:Stephen was on, I think, I think Stephen Merchant was on a BBC Young Directors thing while he was also working at the radio station with Ricky and Carl Pilkington.
Guest:And he made a little, I think like a five or six minute teaser with this character that Ricky used to do around the place called Seedy Boss.
Guest:And then the BBC said, oh, will you make a pilot?
Guest:We'd like to make a pilot.
Guest:And what's amazing is...
Guest:Ricky and Stephen said well we'd like to direct it
Guest:And the BBC went, okay.
Guest:Having no prior experience, no prior, and that's where, for me, the BBC are incredible.
Guest:We made our show for the BBC through a company called Baby Cow, which is run by Steve Coogan and Henry Normal.
Guest:And we would take all of our notes from the BBC, or from Henry or from Steve, would be, they would all start with,
Guest:This is your show.
Guest:No one knows this show better than you.
Guest:So what we're giving you now are not notes, they're suggestions.
Guest:And if you don't like them, throw them in the bin.
Guest:And if you do, take them, but it's your show.
Guest:and so immediately as a creator of a show you are so much more open to hearing a network's um point of view on your show as opposed to we don't like this on page three and this has got to change on page five and we also think this character needs more of a thing you're immediately on a defensive of like whoa hang on stop trying to change my show yeah what are you doing so
Guest:And I kind of think that's a place where American networks in a narrative sense for narrative programming could really learn from that, I think.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what the difference in the business model for how American television works.
Marc:was sort of built on moving towards syndication or holding viewers in a certain way.
Marc:A lot of that stuff has fallen away, so you get a lot of these people that you can't even trust.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So I imagine that having the BBC, who trusted Steve Coogan, I imagine, because he had that, what was his famous character?
Marc:Alan Partridge.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, well, they just... Well, what they do, but even more than that, to trust Ricky and Stephen, two guys working at a radio station, to go, yes, we will let you direct, produce, and write this series... Yeah, it's crazy.
Guest:...is unheard of, actually.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And lo and behold, that freedom... That freedom creates...
Guest:What I think is one of the greatest sitcoms that's ever been made.
Guest:I really do believe that.
Guest:And the British Office, what, there's only like 12 episodes, right?
Guest:Yeah, I think there's 12 and a Christmas special.
Marc:I love that.
Marc:And it's sort of like, I guess because...
Guest:you know you don't have this grail of a hundred episodes making a billion dollars that you know you can sort of you know limit your expectations do as many as you think are necessary or well that's that's what i would often say to friends of mine i remember telling uh i forget who it was saying what what ruth and i earned for gavin and stacy and he nearly fell off his chair at how low it was he's like you're mad what are you doing an american and yeah and i said no no i said you're absolutely right i said however
Guest:what we lose financially compared comparatively right i always thought we were being paid very very well that's the thing is like when we started this conversation i mean it's nice to earn an honest living of course for doing what you do yeah but but but what really counts is is a you have this creative freedom which is unheralded you don't you're making the show that you want to make and b
Guest:It's never going to be pulled off the air.
Guest:You'll always get to tell your story.
Guest:Now, granted, come the end of it, you might be telling that story to four people.
Guest:But I can remember when we were writing Gavin and Stacey and when the next show I wrote with my friend Matthew Baines in the show The Wrong Mans, all we would say is, how great would it be if this was just one person's favourite show?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:if sat around a dinner table somewhere someone said oh you know the show i love gavin and stacy and everyone goes i haven't seen it what is it and they go nice i love it that's all we were ever really hoping for you know hoping for like awards and you know right did you win awards uh we did yeah
Marc:So you did that sitcom, which was your own.
Marc:You appeared on a lot of stuff.
Marc:You've done all the things that one does as a television personality in Britain.
Marc:And then you do this huge movie, Into the Woods, with Meryl Streep, who must have been amazing to work with.
Marc:Phenomenal, yeah.
Marc:How was it like being with an alien?
Guest:It's just incredible.
Guest:I mean, she is... I've never really worked with anybody quite like it, actually.
Marc:There's nobody like it.
Guest:Well, also, she...
Guest:The greatest thing I can say about her, and it's my favourite thing in people, is when she takes her work unbelievably seriously.
Guest:She is incredibly serious about the work that she does.
Guest:and she doesn't take herself seriously at all.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that, for me, makes for the perfect person to work with.
Guest:Because I really can't bear... I don't like it when people don't take their work seriously, and the only thing I hate more than that is when people take themselves very seriously.
Guest:And if they're doing both of those... Oh, it's just the pits.
Guest:When people think that they're, you know, changing the world... And they're not putting the work in.
Guest:Yeah, but she is astonishing.
Guest:yeah amazing and was she amazing was she nice oh my god it'd be on nice like nicer than nice she's so aware of how you feel when she walks in the room that she just does everything she can to put you at ease in that situation i just i i love and adore her yeah so now there's i'll just i'll lay it out here in america
Marc:you know as a comedian and as somebody who talks to people that yeah you know when that spot opened up on the late late show yeah and they were auditioning people that i knew i i never got the call but that's fine i'm not everybody's cup of tea but then you know out of nowhere we're all like who yes absolutely who the fuck is james corden of course but it was sort of like it was unprecedented in a way you know that that that process what how did that come about don't even
Guest:really know you don't well I just got a call from your agent no I'll tell you how I don't I had come to America and I was I had and this is sort of off you know it's off course for you and yeah I had done a play in New York would one man two governors and and it was a really great play a brilliant play and I had some very nice reviews from it and I won the Tony Award that year and I
Guest:I didn't know this, but, like, Nina Tesla, the president of CBS, and Les Moonves, who's the CEO of CBS, had seen that play and were quite determined for me to do something on their network.
Guest:I didn't know any of this at all.
Guest:So I...
Guest:I had an idea to make a TV show and I was going to make this TV show.
Guest:Here?
Guest:Yeah, and I had an idea for a narrative comedy basically about heartbreak and relationships and things like that.
Guest:So you had a pitch?
Guest:yeah I had like a few fragments of ideas and I talked to people and I was very very wonderfully out of it and I decided I was going to make the show for HBO and I went and I saw Les Moonbears and Nina Tassler
Guest:And we were talking about this and then we started talking about Late Night.
Guest:And we had some talks about Late Night.
Guest:And I said, and I was just saying, I think you've got, I was saying, I think that Stephen Colbert is the best appointment they could ever make.
Guest:I said, I think it's amazing.
Guest:And I said, I think the trick after that show is you've got to sit the other end of the seesaw.
Guest:I think there is no point having two shows that are similar back to back.
Guest:Operating at the same time.
Guest:nowhere else in television would you say from 9 till 10 we're going to have a medical drama and then 10 till 11 we're going to have another medical drama with the same diseases yeah and and they just sort of go well what would you do and i was like well i think i would bring all the guests out together at the same time and try and make it feel a bit more conversational i'd sort of try and do a bit more like
Guest:Sketch, silliness, songs, dances, just silly things like try and make people smile because Stephen's going to take care of politics.
Guest:He's going to take care of all of that.
Guest:And we would just like to be a place, a warm place that will make you smile before you fall asleep.
Guest:And I wasn't really sort of pitching.
Marc:You weren't selling it.
Guest:I was just kind of talking about it in general and then...
Guest:And then they said, well, I'd like to do it.
Guest:And I felt very, very reticent about it.
Guest:I really wasn't... Because I just hadn't considered it as something that I would want to do.
Guest:And I didn't think it was something that I wanted to do.
Guest:And I... I love acting so much.
Guest:I really do.
Guest:I love being part of a company.
Guest:I was enjoying the...
Guest:I was enjoying the different things I was getting to do.
Guest:So I was going to write this show for HBO and I was going to do a, a Broadway revival of a funny thing happened on the way to the forum, the Stephen Sondheim musical.
Guest:And, and that, and I was going to do both of those things.
Guest:And then the more I thought about it, the more it just became clear to me that, that,
Guest:That there was no way I wouldn't regret this.
Marc:Taking the opportunity.
Guest:Yeah, that I would rather regret doing something than not doing something.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And if it doesn't work, if it's just awful, then I'll just go home.
Guest:And then I started thinking about it and thinking, well, actually...
Guest:For my family right now, at this point in our lives, to be around them in the way... I actually made the decision in South Africa when I was Skyping my son on my birthday from a prison.
Guest:Hotel.
Guest:No, a prison in Johannesburg.
Guest:We were filming in a prison in Johannesburg.
Guest:For what?
Guest:For a TV show I'd written called The Wrong Man for the BBC.
Guest:And I was like, this is only going to get harder.
Guest:My wife was pregnant at the time.
Guest:I was like, leaving them.
Guest:And from what I can work out, no one really ends up on a therapist's chair going, my dad was just around too much.
Guest:He gave me too many cuddles at the weekend.
Guest:And they were so unbelievably open and receptive to making the show whatever we'd like it to be.
Guest:i thought okay yeah i'll i'll i'll jump yeah and we'll see you know and i feel still feel like we're sort of still jumping really uh you know i'm you know i i'm interested to see where it lands did you feel like um that there was a sort of uh this guy's who the fuck do you think he is
Marc:I didn't actually.
Marc:Until you sat here?
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:Because I guess I never really saw it as that sort of slot.
Guest:I didn't really see it.
Guest:I always thought, yes, of course.
Guest:If you were going into the slot that Stephen's just taken on, then yeah, I think I would absolutely feel that.
Guest:But I think I thought, okay, well, I was very conscious of the fact that we needed to hit the ground running.
Guest:That we needed to have...
Guest:a really good first few weeks like that there was no time to explore and i will find out what the show is on the air like i felt that very much did you do that i think so i think we had i think our first i'm immensely proud of our first episode i feel like it it gave us
Guest:I feel like if anyone was waiting to say those things, I feel like in our first episode, the best we could hope for was, all right, okay.
Guest:You guys are right.
Guest:All right.
Guest:He's putting a lot of energy in.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, like the bit we did with Tom Hanks, I feel is like,
Guest:a really strong solid bit we did a a sketch that i thought was like a you know a pre-taped film sketch yeah you got good writers i know those guys yeah and i was very conscious of wanting to find people who hadn't necessarily written in late night before you know young guys yeah young guys who who would be hungry to make a a young and vibrant show that
Marc:Well, it's sort of interesting because you came in with that, you know, you know, that tiredness, you know, that that it's very funny because, you know, when you talk about the work early on, when you're when you're on stage or doing that, there's something there's something a little thankless about it at a daily show.
Marc:There was a big realization I had when I used to appear on Conan a lot.
Marc:I do the old show and now I do this show a lot.
Marc:But when I go do Conan, which was four times a year, three or four times a year, five times a year, I'd get off and I'd be like, all right.
Marc:Where's the party?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:That feeling of sort of, I did it.
Marc:And then you just realize just a bunch of fucking people at work.
Marc:It's just the same the next day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that is... It made me respect them more.
Guest:Well, that is the best and worst thing about it.
Guest:Because the truth is, if you... There is another show tomorrow.
Guest:So if you do one...
Guest:where you've missed the mark slightly.
Guest:Oh, I thought that idea was going to be there.
Guest:Just, yeah, I didn't really.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't know what happened.
Guest:But you go, do you know what?
Guest:It's gone.
Guest:There's another one tomorrow.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where it's, where it's hard is when you go, oh, that, that was a good show.
Guest:yeah like we had a show last night mel brooks was on the show i did a sketch with mel brooks i did a stupid dance with river dance and we had a pre-taped bit which was me and joe theisman throwing fast food at each other as a as a stunt driver from fast and the furious drove through a drive-through and i was like that felt like a good show yeah
Guest:And it's gone now.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:It's gone.
Guest:You're like, right, okay.
Guest:Next show.
Guest:Okay, here we go.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:But there's something very gratifying about that.
Guest:And you just, you know, you just got to get your head down and just keep going for it and just keep working.
Marc:Is the group format working?
Marc:Because I did the show and I had a nice time.
Marc:And I noticed a couple of things that stood out for me having done a lot of those kind of panel shows.
Marc:One, there were not enough dressing rooms for me, and I was put into a weird someone's office.
Guest:No, that was not your fault.
Guest:That was not our fault.
Guest:That was because, I'll tell you why that was, that Wiz Khalifa and Fall Out Boy were performing together.
Guest:On another show.
Guest:We were pre-taping it for another show, but we didn't have a musical act on your show.
Guest:And they were very much coming as a collective.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Wiz Khalifa did not think that and just went into your room and went, I'll go in here and shut the door and lay down, which is not ideal.
Guest:That's the only time that's ever happened.
Marc:Well, I'm glad I had it.
Marc:That's the only time that's ever happened.
Marc:I'm glad I had a single experience in someone else's office.
Marc:You really did.
Marc:And I promise the next time you come back, you will have a very best dressing room.
Marc:Literally, I get there.
Marc:It was funny because I get there.
Marc:There's this great dressing room.
Marc:There's food out.
Marc:There's a party going on.
Marc:And they're like, no, no, no.
Marc:You're in Josie's office.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I'm really sorry about that.
Marc:They walk me outside.
Marc:I'm truly sorry.
Marc:No, it's okay.
Guest:I really am.
Guest:It was so far beyond our control.
Guest:Because Wiz is not someone you're really just going to.
Marc:He just doesn't have that voice.
Marc:No, I understand.
Marc:I'm just busting balls.
Marc:But the thing that... Because I'm sort of fascinated with the dynamic of creating not necessarily a panel, but having more people out there at once without a topic-specific show.
Marc:You don't see that much...
Marc:In America, like, you know, Politically Incorrect used to do a thing where they'd have four people out, but, you know, you had things that we were all, everyone was commenting on the same thing.
Marc:And to generate a genuine conversation in that environment is tricky.
Marc:And I noticed it was me, Jason Segel, and Carl Reiner, and I think that the wild card was that,
Marc:And I don't know, I'm just going to ask you.
Marc:Like, I've interviewed Carl before, and, you know, he's obviously amazing, and, you know, he's an elder spokesman.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But that's also the thing that you realize once he's out there, it's like, you can't really interrupt.
Guest:Well, no, you can't.
Guest:But then, you know, I just find great pleasure in that, and I just think...
Guest:Mostly, it's... Well, you know... Does it work in general?
Marc:Are you finding that the guests are playing off each other?
Marc:Yes, very much so.
Guest:Yeah, very much.
Guest:And I think...
Guest:I think guests enjoy... I think lots of guests enjoy the notion of not just a fixed eight minutes on there.
Guest:I think actually, oddly, because you would imagine it would be different, but when you think about it, it makes complete sense.
Guest:I think the people who feel least comfortable, I think...
Guest:in that environment are comedians because you are comedians the very notion of being a stand-up comedian is I talk you listen I'm bringing some stories here we go and that is the format of lots of talk shows do you know what I mean lots of talk shows
Guest:Oh, you know, if you stand up, I've got a great thing about supermarkets.
Guest:So if you could ask me a question about going to the supermarket, that would be wonderful.
Guest:And that is kind of difficult to juggle on our show because you never quite know where the conversation is going to undulate and move to.
Guest:The only thing I think is, I think, I mean, I think there are five other shows where the guests come out at the same time.
Guest:Sorry, come out individually.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And ultimately, it just comes from a place of like, we have to give the show a reason to exist.
Guest:It is not enough.
Guest:Just because there has always been a late, late show after the late show that there should be, we've got to give it a reason and we've got to make it feel and look different.
Guest:You know, Reggie, you know, just like a phenomenal presence in that environment.
Marc:i found it good i found it refreshing and in in in like uh for me as a comic who's who's done the story format yeah you know when i heard it was gonna be me and jason who i know yeah and carl who i've interviewed yeah you know my i i wasn't i wasn't upset at all and sort of like how am i gonna get this in i was like i was sort of like this is gonna be easy well that's it and that's that's the truth of it that's what most people find is actually
Guest:It's a joyous thing where you think, well, actually, if this was... If, in fact, we took these cameras away and this was a dinner table and we were all eating, this would be joyous.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This would be great.
Guest:Like, we had a show with Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin and Elizabeth Banks and I've just never had more fun.
Guest:Just the three... And we were just chatting.
Guest:Genuinely, I didn't get through...
Guest:half of the card.
Marc:So you asked, that's great.
Marc:I didn't get through half the card.
Marc:So you didn't have to be self-conscious.
Guest:No, because you go, okay, we talked about this project and then we're going to talk about this project later.
Guest:So actually, this is, so when Lily Tomlin is talking about something and Elizabeth Banks asks the question and it's not mine, the joy of sitting back and watching that flow is wonderful.
Guest:And some nights are harder than others, but then that's the case for all talk shows.
Marc:And how are you easing into the monologue and everything?
Marc:How are you feeling about it?
Guest:I'm finding that.
Guest:Well, again, that's another sort of thing where we try to do something, you know, to not do 15 jokes.
Marc:But just interacting with an audience as James Corden.
Guest:i'm enjoying that i'm enjoying that i'm enjoying we have some really terrific writers who come together and we just tend to do the monologue about one topic yeah yeah i like that which is very easy some days and much harder other days sure and that's the truth because you're in like if midway through the thing is not working you're like oh boy
Guest:Well, what you can't do is go, in other news, Donald Trump said, you know, the idea of doing... Yeah, but we, you know, I feel we've had some really good ones.
Guest:We've had some ones that I'd like to do better.
Guest:But, you know, what I'm realizing is I'm finding it a lot easier to do those monologues and things when they are about something of any substance.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And I think at the start...
Guest:we thought, oh, our show, we'll just do stories about Facebook.
Guest:And actually, what you realise is, if it's about something, it doesn't have to be funny all the time.
Guest:If you're doing it about Kim Davis and her coming out of jail and refusing, still refusing to issue gay marriage certificates and the prospect of her going back into prison, that's a topic where you go, well, actually...
Guest:regardless of the jokes this is an interesting thing to talk about and that's where i hope that our show over the next six months we could find a little more substance and depth in that it's the thing i've realized that i've enjoyed doing which i think at first i thought the show would would just be like atmosphere and yeah but uh and
Guest:I think we can retain elements of that, but at the same time, I would very much love the show to find a greater sense of depth in the places where it's possible to.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Yeah, I hope so.
Marc:And what's your contract for?
Guest:Well, five years, I think.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:So you're in.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, they can sack me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:They can sack me at any point, but I don't think I can leave.
LAUGHTER
Guest:so you better like it yeah they're gonna make the best of it yeah well and we're gonna try to and i really am finding more and more out about it every day i mean you know it's very it's kind of it's tough you know to just come in just sight unseen yeah but then at the same time there's something very freeing about
Marc:sure so now like uh to wrap up tell me about like i've had a couple of knights in here and you're an officer of the order of the british empire yes what does that mean i don't well uh it means that you you are given it's below a knight you're not a sir yeah are you a duke
Guest:No, I don't even know if anyone's a Duke anymore.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You're an OBE.
Guest:An OBE, yes.
Guest:Who gives that to you?
Guest:Well, it's issued by the Queen.
Marc:But you don't get to hang out with her.
Guest:I didn't get mine from the Queen.
Guest:I got mine from Princess Anne.
Guest:And you... Yeah.
Marc:Was it exciting?
Guest:It's really exciting for your parents.
Guest:It's really... And I'm saying, like, genuinely, your first thing is...
Guest:I don't deserve this.
Guest:I should say no to this.
Guest:This is not something... Yeah, you should say, ah, there are so many...
Guest:particularly growing up in the household of two social workers thinking well this is something that you getting yeah being given this for services to drama is not so but however then you go well that's funny because that's exactly what a social worker does yes it's drama you're absolutely right whereas actually the truth is um you know
Guest:Then you think, well, yeah, you owe it to my mom and dad going to Buckingham Palace, sitting there, name read out, giving this thing.
Guest:It's a wonderful, wonderful, lovely thing.
Marc:And they loved it?
Guest:Of course.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:We went for dinner.
Guest:We went for lunch.
Guest:We had champagne.
Guest:It was just, it was lovely.
Guest:And that is, yeah, so that's what that is.
Guest:But I'm not entirely sure what I'm meant to do with it.
Guest:Well, congratulations.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:That means the world to me.
Guest:Congratulations on the show.
Guest:Great talking to you.
Guest:It's such a pleasure.
Guest:I've loved every single second of it.
Marc:Yeah, I like that James Corden guy.
Marc:I would have maybe lunch with him at some time.
Marc:I would sit across from him again and chat about things.
Marc:See that?
Marc:See what's going on with that?
Marc:I can play guitar a little bit.
guitar solo
Guest:Boomer Lives!