Episode 649 - Aaron Draplin
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucksters?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What's happening?
Marc:This is Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Thank you for being here.
Marc:Today on the show, Aaron Draplin from Draplin Design Company.
Marc:This is a guy... How do I explain this?
Marc:I'm not even sure how we came together.
Marc:I think someone said I should talk to him, and then I did a little research on him, and he seemed like an interesting character.
Marc:He's he is the overseer of Draplin Design Company.
Marc:Mr. Aaron James Draplin.
Marc:He's a self-made man.
Marc:He's an obsessed man.
Marc:He's obsessed with logos and design.
Marc:I don't know much about design, but he speaks to people about this.
Marc:He's he's a charismatic man.
Marc:He happened upon something in his design practice.
Marc:These field notes were.
Marc:Blank books became very popular and he designed them and now he's got this whole racket going and I wanted to learn a little bit about design.
Marc:I've been a little fascinated with design here and there.
Marc:I read a book about this guy who invented planned obsolescence.
Marc:I was sort of obsessed from that point on.
Marc:What was this guy's name?
Marc:Was it Brooks Stevens?
Marc:Yes, Brooks Stevens.
Marc:I became sort of obsessed with the idea of planned obsolescence.
Marc:And I believe he was the guy that figured that out.
Marc:He was an industrial designer.
Marc:And I don't know if Draplin is an industrial designer.
Marc:He's a...
Marc:He could be.
Marc:But anyways, there was things about design that I was fascinated about and I knew nothing about.
Marc:And I called this, I emailed or tweeted at or somehow got in touch with Aaron Draplin and we talked and I found him to be a compelling individual.
Marc:And when I was up in Portland a while back, him and I sat at the headquarters of Draplin Design Company and we talked it out.
Marc:And that's what's on the show today.
Marc:You can go to draplin.com.
Marc:and see the stuff he did my poster we did a poster for the show he's like he's an all-around design guy he's got patches and posters and these field notebooks and combs and yeah you gotta go it's hard to explain he's got a little design empire and you'll hear him talk about it in just a few minutes
Marc:What else is going on?
Marc:There's a couple of things going on actually.
Marc:Was looking at an empty deck with a few sad Ikea chairs that were in tremendous disrepair just because the finish was off and they just looked old.
Marc:And and I expressed some interest in getting new patio furniture.
Marc:Then you go look at new patio furniture and there's all these sets and things and umbrellas.
Marc:And then I thought, why don't we why don't I just put a picnic table out there, just like a classic picnic table, like a cheap fucking just regular old standard picnic table out on my deck.
Marc:And my girl, Sarah, the painter for my birthday, bought me a pine assembled, unfinished picnic table.
Marc:Just a fucking, you know, the kind that you're like, hey, is that a place to eat on the side of the road?
Marc:Yeah, there's a picnic table there.
Marc:Well, now when I walk out of my house, I'm like, is there a place to eat on my deck?
Marc:Oh shit, look, there's just a picnic table there.
Marc:So now I have a picnic table.
Marc:We painted it red, stained it red.
Marc:Because that's what picnic tables are in my mind.
Marc:So now it's just like camping at one of those places where you don't have to eat on the ground.
Marc:My deck is now a campground where I don't have to sit on the floor in my tent.
Marc:I can just sit at my picnic table.
Marc:I know it's not really camping, but it's all I can handle.
Marc:So here's the deal.
Marc:We're still checking out some of the old Lorne discussions that I've had on the show.
Marc:Hopefully these will give some context to my upcoming interview with the Buddha, the Lorne.
Marc:The devil, whatever you want to call him, whatever.
Marc:I've thought all those things.
Marc:Now, the thing about this clip, this is me and Jason Sudeikis.
Marc:This is from episode 205 back in 2011.
Marc:And I think it's around the first time I felt like it was becoming necessary to have Lorne Michaels on the show.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So this is me and Sudeikis.
Marc:And I'm tentative.
Marc:You can hear in the clip.
Marc:But obsessed, always obsessed.
Marc:So this is me and Jason Sudeikis from episode 205 in 2011.
Guest:do because like i i just wrote jimmy yeah because like i've had this weird story with him and like with jimmy or with lauren with lauren yeah yeah no i've heard it yeah of course you know and i feel like he brought me in there to teach me a lesson and now like you know i want him to do it again yeah like i i want him to i i would like him to feel that like would you go to him sure yeah i'd like him to feel because he would never come to this fucking no i know
Guest:No, I'd like him to feel that whatever I'm doing, that whatever recognition I have... There's no room in here for the throne.
Guest:I know, I know that.
Guest:In my mind, I believe he would think like, well, Maren's back and he's doing a thing.
Guest:But it's really nothing.
Marc:I want him... There's part of me that wants him to have that attitude and let me sit with him for an hour.
Guest:I mean, I would...
Marc:You don't have to coach him on the attitude, but if you can put it in his ear, they'd be amazing.
Guest:I would absolutely encourage him to do so.
Guest:I think he's fascinating.
Marc:I think that there's part of me that thinks he would want to.
Marc:Because I know he's pretty private.
Marc:He doesn't talk to many people.
Marc:And I know that I've had a lot of people from the show on, certainly from your generation.
Guest:I've had Hader.
Marc:I've had Armisen.
Marc:I've had Seth.
Marc:Mulaney, I know.
Marc:I've had you.
Marc:I've had Mulaney.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:and i know amy i mean amy yep and fallon and i know a lot of people um listen to it over there yeah i just like that's what highly regarded throughout all the circle of stand-up improv i mean it's it's it's god if we could pull that off
Marc:I don't know if he would even remember me, but I know that because I did Conan so much and that because I auditioned for the show.
Guest:He's remarkably sharp.
Guest:That guy gives a damn.
Guest:That's one of the things.
Guest:He's there.
Guest:It's not an executive producer emeritus whatsoever.
Guest:That dude, it's his show.
Guest:You know that going in.
Guest:That's why if you get mad, you're mad about something that you're doing.
Guest:Probably not something he's doing because you're only there because of him.
Marc:Well, okay.
Guest:Every Saturday.
Marc:Well, let me know what happens.
Marc:I'll remind you.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, please.
Guest:You won't have to.
Guest:I mean, when I see him, I'll go, I'm supposed to do something I don't want to do.
Guest:Oh, right.
Guest:Ask him if he wants to do the podcast.
Guest:I don't know how you would ask him.
Guest:No, me, I have a very, like me, I just, I ask him things.
Marc:I mean, I think you should tell him I did it.
Marc:And, you know, have you listened to it?
Marc:Like, you know, start off like that.
Guest:Yeah, please, help me.
Marc:No, I know what to do.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I'm the one that works there, you know.
Marc:So that was more than four years ago.
Marc:crazy and it's finally happened and i'm sorry to say i guess you'll have to wait and find out uh if he really did put me in my place or or or he didn't or if he even remembered our meeting all questions will be answered for me maybe but it's coming it's definitely coming so here's here's what i want to talk about um i had sort of a shitty experience
Marc:Last night, watching the Amy Schumer special that was recorded.
Marc:I believe they broadcast it live from the Apollo on October 17th.
Marc:Now, I generally don't watch other comics, unless they're good friends.
Marc:I love Amy, but I just don't make it a habit because I want to keep my head clean.
Marc:And as you know, I just taped an hour plus special in Chicago at the Vic Theater.
Marc:That was back on June 6th.
Marc:I taped it.
Marc:I'd been working that material for about a year.
Marc:My special will be released on Epix in December.
Marc:I'm very proud of this special.
Marc:I was very excited about it.
Marc:I thought I did a good job.
Marc:I planned.
Marc:I prepared.
Marc:I, you know, I have, you know, there's callbacks in it.
Marc:It's a theater hour, an honest to God theater hour after my last special, Thinky Paint, which was a club hour, a loose club hour.
Marc:I wanted to do a tight theater hour.
Marc:I came pretty close.
Marc:And I'm excited for you to see it.
Marc:But I turned on Schumer's special.
Marc:And I love Schumer.
Marc:But I wanted to see what the stand-up's looking like and how she's doing.
Marc:Because I talked to her years ago in here before she was the big comedy star that she is now.
Marc:And I'm watching the special.
Marc:And I'm liking it.
Marc:I'm having a good time.
Marc:I like her.
Marc:I like Dirty.
Marc:I like her shamelessness.
Marc:And then she sets up a bit.
Marc:She does a little bit.
Marc:And it's a lot like one of my bits.
Yeah.
Marc:And the thing is, I didn't even think that she took it, and I knew I didn't take it from her.
Marc:It's just one of these things we deal with as comedians.
Marc:It's like, well, that premise is a lot like the premise I got.
Marc:And the fucked up thing about it was that the premise I do that's similar to Schumer's, I mean, you would never think that Amy Schumer and me would be similar, but it was actually a part of my hour that was a little bit of a departure for me.
Marc:I was going to get a little dirty again, and I did.
Marc:Because I wanted to flex those muscles.
Marc:But there was a similarity there.
Marc:And it just hit me in the gut.
Marc:Because of the day and age we live in now.
Marc:All of a sudden it's sort of like, oh no.
Marc:Too similar.
Marc:And it's really literally like maybe 30 seconds.
Marc:It's just a premise.
Marc:But it is a defined premise.
Marc:It's not that unusual.
Marc:It's not like it was necessarily an inventive thing.
Marc:It's an observational piece of comedy, but it's a little crass.
Marc:But as I said, didn't think either of us stole the joke or the premise.
Marc:But I thought, well, what if people think that?
Marc:And then that sort of weird fear comes in and you're like, what am I going to have to manage?
Marc:What kind of shit's going to come at me for that?
Marc:And Amy just went through some shit herself over stuff that was not true.
Marc:And it's just the garbage culture we live in of talentless policing of people who do things as a means to sort of get traction and cause trouble.
Marc:The troll culture.
Marc:And it's diminishing.
Marc:And it's frightening.
Marc:And I had this moment where I'm like, I'm not going to fucking even record comedy anymore.
Marc:I don't have to.
Marc:I just do the podcast.
Marc:I go perform my comedy.
Marc:But I don't have to put it on tape to be scrutinized.
Marc:Fuck it.
Marc:It's not worth it anymore in troll garbage culture.
Marc:Where people that do nothing but troll can hurt other people or try to destroy them.
Marc:But that was the fear.
Marc:That was the feeling.
Marc:The way we used to handle it is the way I handled it.
Marc:I watched her special.
Marc:I texted her.
Marc:I said, Amy, great special.
Marc:It's really funny.
Marc:But, you know, I got a bit that's a lot like one of your bits.
Marc:And I just, you know, now I'm all panicky.
Marc:And she texted back, hey, it's, you know, parallel thinking happens sometimes.
Marc:They'll probably blame me.
Marc:And I'm like, it's not about blame.
Marc:I just feel shitty.
Marc:And these things happen.
Marc:But she's like, well, it's cool.
Marc:We can talk about it next time I come on the show because I'd asked her to come back because she's one of these guests that had this tremendous success since I've talked to her.
Marc:And I think I don't repeat guests, but I asked her to come back a couple of weeks ago and I go, great.
Marc:OK, well, fun special.
Marc:And then and that was that.
Marc:So it was just never a thought.
Marc:And I mean, the fact is, is that it is what it is.
Marc:Her special came out first.
Marc:But in that moment, because of the world we live in now, it was like, fuck, what are the odds?
Marc:What are the fucking odds?
Marc:It's just what happens.
Marc:We're all drawn from the same fucking reality.
Marc:But it's not a good feeling.
Marc:And it's sort of...
Marc:Sad to me that my thought, my first thought was, you know, not she stole it or I stole it, which did not happen.
Marc:But like, what's the point of putting comedy out there in the world in a recorded fashion for idiots to disassemble?
Marc:It was just, it was, and I believed it.
Marc:But again, if you're a little dirty, you talk a little dirty, you're probably going to talk dirty like somebody else who talks dirty.
Marc:It's all funny.
Marc:So right now, people, I'm excited for you to hear this.
Marc:This is sort of an offbeat conversation for me.
Marc:It's a little out of my wheelhouse.
Marc:But I love this guy.
Marc:I love the Aaron Draplin from Draplin Design Company.
Marc:And he's a sweet guy and we had a nice chat.
Marc:So let's do this now.
Marc:I did this in Portland a little while ago.
Marc:We're walking and talking.
Marc:So this is, what is the title?
Marc:What is the name of this operation?
Guest:The Draplin Design Company, Portland, Oregon.
Marc:Draplin Design Company, Portland, Oregon.
Marc:This is the corner where the guitars are.
Guest:Right, this is my cockpit where I work in books and treasures and guitars and, you know, computers and things.
Marc:Look at those guitars, dude.
Marc:You're a guitar player.
Guest:Well, that's a bit of a stretch.
Guest:I learn a song, I forget a song.
Guest:Pretty simple.
Marc:But can you jam when necessary?
Yes.
Guest:It's pretty much kind of by my lonesome, but every now and again.
Marc:That's how I roll, and that's a little Fender amp.
Marc:A little 54 Champ amp.
Marc:That's a real 54 Champ?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I made it, that's one of the first things I bought.
Marc:Was it real 54 Tweed Champ?
Guest:Yeah, it was a lot of money.
Guest:You know, I splurged.
Guest:And you can buy those reissues, but I went and got a real one.
Marc:No, I just got a 65.
Marc:I saw it.
Marc:And now we move over here, and this is where you have merch, all the shipping.
Guest:This is where we do all the shipping.
Marc:Everything's done from here.
Guest:Well, not Field Notes.
Guest:Field Notes is done out of Chicago.
Guest:But here, all the Drapiland Design stuff, pencils, trinkets, coin purses, beanies, hats, that's all shipped out of here.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:And you don't live here.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:You live in a house.
Guest:I spend a lot of time.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I live in a home.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Let's walk over here.
Marc:You got an anvil.
Guest:I have an anvil.
Guest:Just a restored.
Marc:That's a what?
Marc:Been restored.
Marc:Really?
Marc:A restored anvil.
Marc:Mm hmm.
Marc:And these are all the field notes and that.
Marc:Oh, look, here's some some logos for things for you.
Guest:Little cards to say thank you to people when we when we fill the orders.
Guest:Patches.
Guest:patches yeah field notes buttons trinkets combs you got a good head of hair why don't you take a comb yeah call this the hair organizer i like it it's a little comb it's gonna i don't know if it's gonna work for me got the space shuttle got t-shirts come over here i'll show you where everything's uh we keep all the all the stock where well okay this is my so i have two partners here yeah we have john femister yeah david nakamoto and this is how we look out over portland here yeah we've been here about six seven years right
Guest:i i work with these guys we watch over each other but we don't really like this me and this guy in the corner yeah we made sure that we are as far apart diagonally as possible but he worked for you no no they work on their own projects we just watch over each other sort of financially okay they have their projects they work on a bunch of giro helmets and shit and then they have their side of the so i have my side and i move an inch a month yeah right into their space right slowly and then one day you're gonna be like fellas
Marc:The time has come.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:If I hit it big, I'm going to forget those guys first.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:They're at the top of the list.
Marc:How did you choose them to work with you?
Guest:Well, we all worked together at a little space in town here called Cinco Design.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And we all jumped out, worked on our own out of our basements, and that got a little – I didn't have space.
Guest:So we all came together to kind of watch – because there's strength in numbers.
Guest:The idea that we're sort of watching over each other is –
Guest:You know, invoices and things.
Guest:And then it's better to have eyes on all of our projects.
Guest:So whatever I'm working on, Dave comes over and checks out.
Guest:So you trust these guys?
Guest:Oh, they're brothers of mine.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We've been together now seven years in this shop.
Guest:I've been buddies since I got to Portland in, like, 2002?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So they're your guys.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:all right well this is all very exciting and a lot of boxes a lot of merch but this part of your operation there's no reason for you to outsource the uh the merch operation because that's part of what you do someone else gets the cut then let's go sit down and where are we going to sit down and do this in your corner am i supposed to where's where's a spot where i say to you why why are you here what is going on why am i freaked out here's the thing aaron i'll tell you why i'm here and why you're here and why we're both here
Marc:uh you come very well recommended by people that love you you do a thing that is uniquely your own you seem to be a character you made a poster for me uh i uh you know i didn't know who you were even though you accosted me at an airport in a very polite way and you were a fan and i remember that but at that time i had no idea and i think you actually tweeted that you you met me and then people were like you guys gotta and i'm like i don't know who that guy is right right
Marc:And then I did a little research.
Marc:I thought you were just one of these poster artist fellows who I've come in contact with.
Marc:But no, you run this small self-made empire of design and manufacturing.
Marc:And people have a lot of respect for you.
Marc:And I did a little research and you seem to be an obsessive character that gets a lot of, like when I watched that video of you going through your drawers, when you held up certain logos.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:it was as if you just took a hit a crack like that you would say you would take a logo and you went like you you you had a thrill that it did something to your mind and heart yeah that there was it does that's why i'm here okay and and i i'm just a little freaked out man because i listen i listen to stuff i've been sure a number of years well don't don't judge yourself against any of the other interviews they're all different there's some big ones but this is where the the podcast takes a slump and might need that after what you've been going through
Marc:There's no slump involved.
Marc:I'm just setting it up, man.
Marc:I don't want to let anyone down.
Marc:What you're doing is you're telling people to lower their expectations.
Marc:You are an artist and you are a man that's made something of himself in a very specific world.
Marc:You're wearing a hat that has your logo on it.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That's not nothing.
Guest:See, it gets bigger.
Guest:What's so fun about this is when people say that, how many people work for you?
Guest:And it's me.
Guest:I do all the design from landing the job all the way up to settling all the invoices and making the client happy.
Guest:Now, in other situations,
Guest:There's a lot of bureaucracy and hierarchy and things.
Guest:That's any little design shop.
Guest:I did that for a couple of years.
Guest:It wasn't necessarily was bad.
Marc:It just wasn't for me.
Marc:But let's go back.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Let's go back to like, so where people, how do people know you?
Guest:Well, probably through field notes.
Guest:Now, these are the books.
Guest:Yeah, these are little memo books that I make.
Guest:Now, let's... We make... A whole staff makes these things out of Chicago.
Guest:But this caught on.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How did that happen?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Well, I mean, I'm from Michigan, right?
Guest:I'm from Michigan.
Guest:And going all the way, you know, from Michigan to Portland...
Guest:And going junking, right?
Guest:Antique malls, flea markets, you know, my dad there, that's, you know, he trained me.
Guest:This is Jim Draplin.
Guest:Still around?
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:About as dead as it gets.
Guest:Still with us in every one of your molecules right now, Jim Draplin.
Guest:This is the...
Guest:This is the fucking, fucking, we can swear all we want to this thing, right?
Guest:Sure, I know your deal, right, right, right.
Guest:That was the Blue Light Special champion of participating in Kmart stores in Northern Michigan, right there.
Guest:That's the guy, Jim Drapa, my dad, right?
Guest:So growing up, we came, you know, Polish pack rats.
Guest:His joke was he always wanted one of everything, right?
Guest:And he taught us how to pull the vines back in Detroit, and we'd find these old signs.
Guest:Now, those old signs are worth $2,000 and $3,000.
Guest:So he's a junker.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So that quality of... He sold the stuff?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:He was an industrial tool salesman.
Guest:But he just collected.
Guest:He just loved stuff.
Guest:He loved the tactile quality.
Guest:He loved the little logo.
Guest:He loved the charm.
Guest:All of our furniture and stuff, that was stuff that he found dead in antiques stores.
Guest:What was his prize piece?
Guest:A roll-top desk was one of the big ones.
Guest:Some Coca-Cola stuff.
Guest:maybe his children he had three kids one of each that's what he'd say right yeah and he was funny as shit yeah so you so you're driving with your pop going and he's showing you how to do stuff well you know you'd see a you'd see a garage sale sign yeah and he'd start in on you and say hey this could be the one was it's 1987 i'm into skateboards yeah he'd say this is the one with a box of skateboards i said no no he said you never know yeah
Guest:And then we had to go.
Guest:I never found shit all those years.
Guest:But we went to all these things.
Guest:It dragged my grandma, all of us.
Guest:And I have all these funny stories.
Guest:But that was planted in me.
Guest:And then when I would drive out west as a youngster, I'd go junk.
Guest:Because what do people do for fun on the road?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:And I would make the time, I'd find these little memo books.
Guest:I mean, we're talking, have you ever been to a farm sale?
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, it's the saddest thing in the world.
Guest:People are rifling through things.
Guest:You ever been doing an estate sale?
Guest:Yeah, I think so, yeah.
Guest:Okay, well, when you go to like a little old lady who's selling off the farm,
Guest:And you're digging through her drawers, and you find a stack from her husband of these memo books that he lived and died in.
Guest:There's a lot of ghosts there.
Guest:And that's where these little memo books came from.
Guest:I would collect those things, hoard those things.
Guest:I've got about 1,000 of them.
Guest:Filled?
Guest:Filled with people's handwriting and stuff.
Marc:What were they doing on the memo books?
Marc:Was it just a coincidence that you found all these, or was it specific to a farm sale?
Guest:Yeah, it's sort of the currency of the agrarian landscape.
Guest:And these old-timers always had this shit in their pockets, right?
Guest:So they would write what in it?
Guest:lore farm notes uh seed stuff you know these were giveaways so all my life growing up I always had something in my pocket and I'd build my own books I would make my own I would uh you know how old were we talking oh god when I was I mean since I can remember I mean I was I got a book deal right so I've been going through all my stuff I have journals going back until I was about 12 I
Guest:really yeah yeah and then i reread all the shit from when i left out west crying when you leave your mom and dad i was 19 years old and i documented all that shit i don't know what that was in me that was you know fearful of not wanting to capture it yeah i caught a lot of it right yeah so the idea of always having something to draw on at all times i get fidgety when it's not right here right you know because not only uh is it about like um
Guest:You know, collecting little, last night of your show, your ticket stub, Dean's little ticket stub was in there, you know, his little BMX sticker he gave me.
Guest:It's a way to, you know, protect things, but any idea I have, that's where it goes.
Guest:That's how the old-timers did it for the last hundred years.
Marc:Well, that's how I used to do it.
Marc:Like, I always had a notebook or a napkin.
Marc:Like, right now, I'm like, what if he says something and I've got to bring it back around and I don't have a piece of paper with me?
Marc:Can I have a field book?
Guest:let me just i'm gonna put this down yeah i'm gonna change your life okay now everything is post pre post now it's time to get some feeling okay okay what we're gonna do is i'm gonna give you a wood one a wood cover these are cool look oh see that
Guest:That's a piece of wood.
Marc:That's an actual piece of wood?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Northern Wisconsin.
Guest:They soak it overnight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It gets sheared off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They adhere it to basically brown paper bags.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That gets all stamped on, and then you can print on the stuff.
Guest:So this is like, I've seen these around, and this is you.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:So this was inspired.
Guest:You with a big asterisk.
Guest:Me and Jim Kudal, my mentor, my older brother, who, you know, I made a big stack of them here in town because I couldn't find ones I liked.
Guest:Everything you'd go see in some.
Marc:Like a moleskin?
Guest:i don't use the m word around the shop okay sorry yeah i'm but i saw those over in italy my first time i went there was for a client with a little band around and i bought like 500 bucks worth because i never thought i'd go back to italy right but you loved them they were great i used you know i used them for a couple years yeah and then i made my own it's just as simple as that right here in portland and then you know that first making you know i hand screen printed them like your posters and shit like i handed them
Guest:You put staples and you cut the corners and all the stuff.
Guest:I owned every little piece of it.
Guest:Gave those to buddies.
Guest:Bade them up a couple hundred.
Guest:And then I made 2,000.
Guest:Gave a stack to Jim Kudal out in Chicago.
Guest:What's he do?
Guest:What doesn't he do?
Guest:I mean, he's just this incredible sort of entrepreneur.
Guest:But sort of design, a little bit of web, an incredible website going 15 years now of just incredible links and weird things.
Guest:These are guys that figured out how to take your, remember your old Macintosh?
Guest:Keyboards they washed it in a dishwasher to get all the hair and shit because I'll tell you right now if you go scrape that keyboard You will get a wild assortment of shit, man.
Guest:You could populate a whole city block with some of the like primordial so I don't want to get into it But uh remember how much hair and shit would be in those things they washed it So they're just these really creative weird what they do with them once they wash them
Guest:They just want to go test it.
Guest:But they'd make these wonderful videos and have beautiful type, beautiful ideas.
Guest:And, you know, it wasn't you didn't have to sign up for this shit.
Guest:So I was a fan of these little sort of like, you know, skits and things.
Guest:And then they have clients, but they have never really talked about really what they do.
Guest:Jim's whole mantra was basically if a client doesn't teach us something.
Guest:Why are we going to be involved?
Guest:It doesn't matter how much money you make.
Guest:He's a design firm.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So, you know, Kudal Partners is what it's called.
Guest:So I gave a stack to this guy who I was looking up to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he knew my shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:This is about 2005, 2004.
Guest:And then next thing I know, you know, we have a website.
Guest:We have people interested.
Guest:He's got all these tech people that he knows because he, you know, he's a big keynote speaker at South by Southwest.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:All the tech side of things.
Guest:And it explodes.
Guest:And before you know it, you know, it's a real company.
Guest:Drop one design.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a real deal.
Guest:You can find them in men's stores.
Guest:And when I go in those fucking men's stores, the first thing I say with something numbed up behind the counter, I go, which way to the big and tall section?
Guest:And you got this guy, who the fuck's got a 28-inch waist?
Guest:I mean, really.
Guest:And I freak them all out, and I'll just walk out.
Guest:But they carry our field notes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Places that sell $500 pairs of jeans.
Guest:That's bullshit.
Guest:I get my jeans at a little place in a U.S.
Guest:outdoor store for $35.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Like farmers.
Guest:But they carry your field notes.
Guest:Oh, they carry our field notes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We fill a lot of holes, I like to say.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:In between all the expensive shit.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when did you like I understand your dad was a junker and he was a pack rat and he had an appreciation for for for it seems like there's a nostalgia to design to not to design, but to your interest.
Marc:Yeah, that that it represents something that has integrity.
Marc:And that has staying power.
Guest:Simpler, simpler.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But it feels to me that when you see a logo, you're like, this stands the test of time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Even if you don't remember what it was, you can take just the shell of it.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:When did that start?
Guest:Well, I think since I was a little kid.
Guest:You know, this idea of like, you know, when you get the first taste of California through BMX skateboarding, you get to see things get like cool.
Guest:You get to see things be manufactured somewhere and then sold to a bunch of peckerheads in Michigan.
Guest:Everyone's got Ocean Pacific up and down there.
Guest:You know, you remember?
Guest:I remember OP.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:I had the shorts.
Marc:I had the shorts.
Marc:I had the shirt.
Guest:I had maybe the shoes.
Guest:Some kind of a hat or something.
Marc:Not a big hat guy.
Marc:But yeah, maybe.
Marc:But I remember OP was a big deal.
Guest:This idea that...
Guest:the first time you really start to recognize the power of a logo on a t-shirt, you know, and then you step back and you see how that's used around us in Northern Michigan, which is basically on feed and seeds, like good old boys, you know, representing, I don't know, Articat snowmobiles and shit, you know, or representing wherever they go buy their feed and seed, right?
Guest:Now those, all those promotional items, those are things that were just giveaways to keep guys buying, you know, seed and shit.
Marc:Sure, but it is a context of the reality.
Guest:Completely lacking all sort of pretension.
Guest:It was just to say, here's our stuff.
Guest:So, okay, now I see skateboarding and art and culture and all the cool stuff, but I'm tempered around my dad, who sells industrial tooling, where it is completely no bullshit.
Guest:I mean...
Guest:Talk about the tool.
Guest:Here's the graphic.
Guest:And it works.
Guest:And the package is probably still in my dad's garage, right?
Guest:All these years later.
Guest:Now, that kind of functionality, that's not what existed when I finally got my shot to go learn how to be a graphic designer.
Guest:It was about fashion.
Guest:It was about what's the latest, hottest, bullshittest thing, you know, right?
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:No integrity.
Guest:Well, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Guest:It just because I wouldn't throw all those guys when you call under the bus.
Guest:No, it's more like I just like things that my dad could enjoy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was into because there's always a leap from us to like your parents.
Guest:And they didn't understand all this highfalutin post postmodern bullshit.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But there's something about their generation or something about even the idea of an industrial tool where it's sort of like you're going to buy one of these.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's going to last you.
Guest:You have to save for it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you can pass that on to your kid.
Marc:So what you got passed down was this compulsive fascination and belief in the long-lasting nature of something that is built to work, perhaps.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what you see is you just see...
Guest:this beauty to it because listen okay when i have to think about it then it's designed yeah now these guys they weren't designing to be ironic right be cool to sell shit to sell jeans to sell this to sell records any of this kind of stuff it was just meant to work that is what i try to mine from my work this beautiful quality of undesignedness i don't know what you even what are some of your favorites like do you like the levi's tag
Guest:oh yeah yeah yeah right it goes back 115 120 years love that right i just like things that are iconic and didn't get fucked with right what was the first one when you were a kid where you were like that's fucking bicentennial logo i can remember i was telling you last night i can remember that all the way back because there was this geometry you have it tattooed on your yeah oh you should have seen me lay in there yeah not good yeah you a tattoo guy no i got a couple yeah but you know it's all very bicentennial one it's very out of well that's my favorite logo
Guest:You know, and I remember, you know, my dad explained to me, you know, 10 rings, 20 years of ring, 200 years worth of 200.
Guest:I was, I was tiny.
Guest:Then you see it on the space shuttle and then it goes away and it's gone, gone, gone.
Marc:But I think what fascinated you was there was a whole code to it that had to be demystified.
Marc:Everything had a reason that behind the design.
Guest:We used to celebrate America.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We used to celebrate it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:1776.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What is it?
Guest:Carter?
Guest:You know, they're coming off of Nixon.
Guest:Everyone's cynical.
Guest:I was three.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But it was like, here's this 200-year thing, and it was a big nationwide party.
Guest:And one designer, Bruce Blackburn, with these Chermayoff guys and our guys, whatever, out of New York City, they build this mark that represents America.
Guest:Like, what do we have when we go across?
Guest:wherever when you go to canada their flag is incredible i mean i love our american flag but this logo signified for me growing up america but it was gone you know all through the you know i don't know it was after i saw it in the space shuttle the next time i saw it was on the guitar of one of the mercury rev guys uh-huh you know i was like what the hell was that and then you know yeah you remember those guys yeah fucking i got all i got all the records but
Guest:i saw it there i went and started looking because that's when i was really getting into you know well design about 91 92 you know and found it and then found paul rand and fall saw bass these are the pillars of logo design but
Guest:Like Lowry Salt, Bell Telephone, AT&T, the classics from 1960s and shit.
Guest:And that thing still works in 2015.
Guest:So this is, what, 25 years ago, my first sort of inkling of this stuff was like, wow, these are things that you find at like garage sales.
Guest:They're junk.
Guest:but that logo's great it still works see what i'm saying i do now and then then i was being dipped in the wildness of the 90s ray gun when you're growing up yeah yeah like you know all the cool things you know guys set in fucking remember reagan magazine yeah sure damage this and dead david carson's and stuff this stuff was that gary panther no no he was he was a cool name though right he was in the raw i used to have a dog named gary
Marc:Right, yeah.
Guest:Your male dog named Gary?
Marc:No, I meet less and less Garys now.
Marc:Gary's out.
Marc:That name's gone its way out, man.
Marc:Yeah, it didn't hold up like the AT&T logo.
Guest:I have theories about that shit.
Guest:Gary, Barry, Larry.
Guest:These names just kind of make you shudder.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:Harry.
Marc:I don't think there's a lot of gyms around anymore.
Guest:There's not a lot of gyms.
Guest:Yeah, it's just like... I just met a kid named Frank on my tour.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Thank God there's a few Franks.
Guest:Frank, he's about 25 years old.
Guest:Like, now everyone's named...
Guest:Cute names.
Marc:Yeah, Jesse.
Guest:Ethan.
Marc:Smart names.
Marc:And other, like, Buffalo, maybe.
Guest:Twig and shit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:All right, so young Aaron James Draplin is starting to realize, like, these logos represent things that are bigger than us.
Marc:There's almost a mystical, spiritual element to them.
Guest:Well, no, I think what I like about it.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:No?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:It was corporate.
Guest:And there's a big word.
Guest:because remember you know in america though that represents spiritual mystical well there you know in those 90s where you know you have a nirvana come and just shake everything yeah that's that's the year i got out of high school so that that that's right starting that fall i'm starting college
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nevermind hits.
Guest:So what do we have just a year before that?
Guest:Hair metal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we didn't have that.
Guest:We were raised on punk rock.
Guest:You were.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:You know, my mom raised us on, well, Joni Mitchell's, Neil Young's.
Guest:But she had the MC5 record with the motherfucker on the inside.
Marc:With no irony to it.
Guest:She got it when it came out.
Guest:My mom went and saw the Stooges.
Guest:She went and saw the MC5, Bobby Seeger.
Guest:This is what we come from.
Guest:You grew up in Detroit.
Guest:I was born in Detroit.
Marc:But she grew up in Detroit.
Guest:Yeah, mom and dad were Detroit kids.
Guest:Mom was Livonia, and dad was Detroit, Dearborn, and my Polish grandmother.
Guest:These are incredible people.
Guest:My Irish grandmother out in Wixom and all this bullshit, away from Detroit.
Guest:And then my grandma, who was one of the last holdouts in her little neighborhood, this whole Polish lady.
Guest:And my dad would go down every other week, so he would be down there for a week.
Guest:And work.
Guest:And then we would go down for summers.
Guest:So we spent a lot of time in Detroit.
Guest:Pierogies?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Put a hurt on that shit.
Guest:Polish kitchen down in Hamtramck?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what you brought up on.
Guest:I'm half Polish.
Guest:It's debatable what parts.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But half.
Guest:And, you know, we had that, you know, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's like I have a weird, talk about mysticism.
Guest:I have a weird quality about Detroit because that's where I'm from.
Guest:You were born there.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:But it's like then four years old, we go up to northern Michigan, middle of nowhere, because mom and dad couldn't take it because it was rough.
Guest:My dad would tell stories about painting and looking across the city and seeing the smoke burning from the riots.
Guest:That's what they grew up around.
Guest:That's four miles or five miles down Woodward or whatever, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Imagine growing up in heaven, that shit going down just a couple miles away.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And these weird dividing lines, they got out of there.
Guest:So we were four.
Guest:We moved to northern Michigan.
Guest:So I grew up in a town where I had 30 kids in my class.
Marc:Small.
Marc:Tiny.
Marc:But your mom had Neil Young.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:MC5.
Marc:So the MC5 blew your, how old, your five-year-old mind, six-year-old mind?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I wouldn't have heard that.
Guest:I would have been hearing a lot of Jackson Brown and shit during those years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the idea that I would, you know, I heard it when I was about 15.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Because, you know, I found punk rock.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she went and dug this thing out.
Guest:And she explained to me, this is motherfucker on the inside.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, you know, I just have to say it.
Guest:You know, my parents are cool.
Guest:I had cool.
Guest:Listen, I listened to your shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Last summer, you know, after we lost pops, you know, and listen to you that we were in.
Guest:We were driving home.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I lost my shit.
Guest:Listen, you lose your shit with your dad.
Guest:I know that people come up to you and tell you this stuff.
Guest:So I'm kind of freaking out right now because that's how I know you.
Guest:These weird connections.
Guest:You know, I talk about my dad.
Guest:I kind of lose it, but I'm not going to be a fucking professional for this.
Guest:But I was raised, we didn't have any beefs.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, maybe we used to fight.
Guest:He used to want me to mow the fucking lawn diagonally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and then you do the other way like tiger stadium we'd fight over that shit not horizontal i wasn't going to do it like that not horizontal that's that's the height of our brawls so i had this mom and dad who were liberal and cool and it was never ever about don't drink and don't fight and don't whatever yeah they told us they guided us yeah but you know i'm a teetotaler yeah to this day pretty much every now and again i lose my shit right but i was i was raised around that you know they were cool you know everything that we had we sort of uh you know
Guest:my dad would find like all the molding in our house yeah he dug that shit out of like old crack houses in detroit and stuff that's what i was raised around seeing piece by piece because i never really knew that they didn't have a lot there's some rough winters there yeah i just never really knew because we had you know love and legos yeah art shit and mom and dad around what'd your mom do
Guest:raised us uh-huh but she's she would um for a couple years there she was doing some sort of like i mean she raised us yeah you know it was in a small town i'm you know me and my sister but no painters or no you know a little bit of basket weaving oh yeah but creative yeah these are creative people right and then also um you know like like collectors uh-huh
Guest:So, you know, we had all this cool stuff.
Guest:Like, they had an eye for these things.
Guest:Before us, that's what our house was outfitted with.
Guest:Old stained glass and all sorts of little figurines and shit that, you know, what, 30, 40 years later is worth a lot of cash.
Guest:And my parents, that's what they did for fun before us.
Guest:See, they waited to have us until they were 30.
Guest:That was kind of unheard of back then.
Guest:You know, you're supposed to be 20 when you have a kid, right?
Guest:Back in 1970 or whatever.
Guest:But they waited, and then my dad...
Guest:My dad used to get himself fired from his steel worker job so he can go skiing in Vail.
Guest:Jim Draplin.
Guest:My dad claimed that for one quarter, he'd get his arm up in the fucking vending machine and empty the whole goddamn thing and feed all the dudes, right?
Guest:Until he got his arm caught one time.
Guest:That was one of his great stories.
Guest:So I was raised around this, like...
Guest:Fight for the little guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Before you take the big hook.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Deal with all the little hooks.
Guest:Don't buy anything you can't afford.
Guest:This kind of shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's what we were raised around.
Guest:So I had great examples of that stuff.
Guest:And then my dad going ape shit.
Guest:You know, and just kind of going...
Guest:Let's just get one.
Guest:You want it?
Guest:Let's buy it.
Guest:Don't tell your mom.
Guest:Skateboard decks, records, things.
Guest:And then with my mom, great memories.
Guest:I'm making the book, and I'm finding little things that I have, and I found a receipt from my mom taking me to this little town and buying me pads for my BMX bike.
Guest:I remember this.
Guest:I was like eight or nine.
Guest:I'll never get rid of that.
Guest:So there's that nostalgic.
Guest:Or do I even need that paper?
Guest:Fuck it.
Guest:I got room.
Guest:I'm going to keep it.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:I just found it.
Guest:Why did I even have that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we were, because now when we lost dad, you know, my dad used to call me.
Guest:He'd say, Aaron, I'm in the garage.
Guest:Guess what I find?
Guest:I'd say, what's that dad?
Guest:And he'd say, I found a wall.
Guest:a wall yeah i get it you're the guy who writes comedy it's fucking funny he found a wall so we're tearing apart my dad's empire you know and one by one all these pieces there's stuff that has value there's things that he just he collected two cans or what do you call them like a parrot yeah you know or something he just like stuffed parrots yeah 40 of the fucking things yeah but he just loved ephemera and things and bric-a-brac so you
Guest:See how I, you know, this is where I come from.
Guest:Remember how some dads were like, like, like, hmm.
Guest:Is that a deluxe?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:That's a new bass amp.
Guest:A new Fender bass amp.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I saw the Meat Puppets play last summer, and that's what he was playing.
Guest:You got one.
Guest:I got one.
Guest:I couldn't take it.
Guest:So, you know, I made it, man.
Guest:I can buy what I want.
Marc:New tweed, new tweed.
Marc:All right, so your dad, so this is how this influenced your life.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, just this idea of, like, having an appreciation for all the little tiny stuff.
Guest:Now we can't get rid of it because we have this big house full of it.
Guest:Yeah, it's hard.
Guest:You know, when someone goes, you know,
Marc:Your dad stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:My mom.
Guest:See, this is a very interesting thing growing up.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That which comes from the sea eventually goes back to it, right?
Guest:So my dad would be smuggling shit in, and then my mom would just go cherry-pick shit every week and go take it back.
Guest:And here's this idea of my dad at some junk store.
Guest:He had a whole network in northern Michigan.
Guest:He had some junk store going, this is pretty cool.
Guest:He already bought it, and she gave it back, and it's just back in the cycle.
Guest:That must have happened.
Guest:This is what we grew up around.
Guest:So, you know...
Marc:So when does design start to happen?
Marc:So, I mean, you sound like you were involved in the BMX thing and skateboarding.
Marc:You did pools and stuff?
Guest:No, no, no, no, no.
Guest:That's a little bit before us.
Guest:You know, this is out in front of our house and a little shitty, you know.
Marc:But you weren't like that guy.
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Marc:Skating the bowls.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I did a couple out west when I was of age when I finally got out there, but...
Guest:You know, you're in the middle of nowhere.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're seeing the magazines from all these cool Californias.
Guest:And that shit's on your wall.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you start thinking and saving.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And getting the hell out.
Guest:Like, you know, right out of high school, I was 17.
Guest:I got a little early, you know, so I'm a senior, whatever.
Guest:I went through the whole deal.
Guest:But I'm an October kid, so I was a little young for it.
Guest:And I got out and I started college.
Guest:I did two years to placate my mom and dad.
Guest:So I'm one of the first draft ones who actually went to school.
Guest:I remember just them saying, go.
Guest:This is a community college.
Guest:Just go because we didn't get a chance to.
Guest:So I did.
Guest:All my buddies were moving out west.
Guest:To do what?
Guest:Snowboard.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Because there's no mountains.
Guest:So we're going to go out there to be skateboarders and snowboarders.
Guest:and animals that was yeah yeah that was the that that was the future yeah well this is what we did growing up on really limited sort of conditions and height and you know whatever tiny little mole hills it's michigan you know how you make a hill in michigan you dig a hole and then you put it like this and that makes a nice hill right i mean that's michigan yeah so we've been watching we're watching and then we get the hell out of there so i was 19 when i moved out west yeah and that would have been 93 and
Marc:After college, what did you study at community college?
Guest:Just a tiny little two-year associate degree.
Marc:In what?
Guest:I learned design.
Guest:I learned how to, like, open the machine, open the programs, play with them, make stuff, draw, paint, just a nice overview in northern Michigan.
Guest:So I got that little bit out of the way, and then I had their blessing.
Guest:And as soon as I turned 19, two years done, that's when we took off.
Guest:We saved all our money washing dishes.
Guest:Who's we?
Guest:Me and my buddies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Bri and Derek and Chad and Johnny, about six, seven of us, all Eric Campbell.
Guest:We all went out west together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:know my my crowning achievement from my youth is leaving sucked tears it's freaky but the moment you get away from your mom and dad your life explodes you know and you go all the way out west all the way to oregon we kind of we kind of we kind of you know jumped over leapfrog over colorado because all of our buddies were already there because you know this shifts
Guest:You know, one year it's Jackson Hole where all the kids are going.
Guest:For snowboarding.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Skiing and all this kind of bullshit.
Guest:Skiing sucks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I know you do a little skiing.
Guest:There's still time for you.
Guest:I tried snowboarding.
Guest:It's hard to... Oh, come on, man.
Guest:We invented it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm so proud of that.
Guest:You invented it?
Guest:Well, we just got fucked with.
Guest:Because what was cool at the time, assholes...
Guest:testing each other and, like, getting times and medals and shit and, like, expensive ski gear.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And suddenly... See, this is what skateboarding and snowboarding taught me.
Guest:Like, it was okay to be with your buddies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And to be big or weird or buddies with drug problems, buddies... But it also got me into punk rock and art and thinking for yourself.
Guest:That fucking rescued me because in my small town... And that comes from snowboarding and skateboarding.
Guest:Yeah, it just came from sort of being kind of punk rock.
Marc:Yeah, fuck the old paradigm.
Guest:Well, just...
Guest:In that small town, if you're not in sports, you're not in nothing.
Guest:I tried.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But fuck all that.
Guest:It took a lot of guts to say no to it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I had guys messing with me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I had a big dead can.
Guest:He was in the back of my cut-off jean jacket.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I did that, and I got messed with for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it teaches you to be your own person.
Guest:So y'all go on.
Guest:I'm so thankful for that.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:That's where I discovered indie rock.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sebados and shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's 92.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Red House Painters.
Guest:I brought my 20 best records today.
Guest:I'm going to pull them out.
Okay.
Guest:You brought them with you.
Guest:I don't even know if I want you even touching them.
Guest:I won't touch them.
Guest:You can hold them up.
Guest:Mint.
Guest:Mint.
Guest:A little bit of ring wear in there.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:This is, okay.
Guest:Kill Creek, Proving Winter Cruel.
Guest:Don't even know what that record is.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:This got me through a whole summer up in Alaska.
Guest:This one record.
Guest:Kill Creek.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:This is a very rare record.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Stick your fingers.
Guest:My favorite Stones record.
Guest:Just because.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:My favorite Bob Seger record, Brand New Morning.
Guest:This is the one that he says is always buried in people's backyards because you can't fucking find it.
Marc:I don't know this record.
Guest:This is when he was on Capitol.
Guest:This is before he exploded.
Guest:See, it's not cool to like Bob Seger where I'm from, right?
Guest:Michigan?
Marc:Because he didn't come from there, though.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then you realize your uncles were onto something, man, because Bob Seger's the best.
Marc:You can't find that.
Marc:I've never seen that record.
Guest:Very hard to find, okay?
Guest:Paw Drag Line.
Guest:As grunge was exploding, they were putting their big money on this one.
Guest:This is a great...
Guest:Great fucking record.
Marc:I've never seen it before in my life.
Guest:Okay, okay.
Guest:You're not even allowed to touch this.
Guest:That I know.
Guest:I don't even like even fucking looking at it.
Guest:It's still sealed.
Guest:It's mint.
Guest:OOP.
Guest:The classic Flamin' Lips fucking transmissions from the satellite heart.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't even like, don't even look at it.
Guest:God damn it.
Marc:Okay, fine.
Guest:Here is that MC5.
Guest:I got that one.
Guest:A couple of those.
Guest:Okay, okay.
Guest:It's got the motherfucker on the inside.
Guest:Just so you know, for the listeners here, my very, very famous, favorite, favorite, favorite, Red House Painter's record.
Guest:The Jesus Lizard.
Whew.
Guest:You didn't get into the Jesus.
Guest:No, dude.
Guest:I'm going to make you a list while you're here.
Guest:I'm going to rescue you.
Guest:I should go through all your records.
Guest:No, it's all right.
Guest:I'm taking it.
Guest:Every time that you have someone on talking about vinyl, I always want to hear what are their favorite records, man?
Guest:What's their favorite shit?
Guest:But you guys are talking about everything else.
Marc:I'll make note of that, Aaron.
Guest:I'll make note of that.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Thank you for the note.
Marc:But, all right, so, okay, so you go out, you've got your two years of design, and you're going to snowboard and skateboard your way to freedom.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And Colorado is done, so you end up in Portland.
Marc:All the way to Oregon.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Bend to Oregon about three hours from here.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And that first day you're there, you know, it's a hill, but it's going to open up in two months, but we have all our cash.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We locked down a place, you know, and then that first night we went up to Portland.
Guest:Now listen, growing up in Detroit, you get your car stolen, right?
Guest:It's like dangerous and shit.
Guest:Or there's this sort of like shit hanging over you from like your uncles.
Guest:Be careful where you're going downtown or whatever, right?
Guest:so we go see all these you know bands growing up and it was kind of sketchy right come to portland you can park you can walk you can walk across town you can hang out the first night we get here we see this band called paw it's old band from kansas right and we'd listen to their record all the way across the nation okay now it could have been any other record but that first night we come to portland it was just like fuck man my life is starting and
Guest:Two months from now, we're going to be up one of the greatest mountains in the world, Mount Bachelor, you know, being animals, being with my buddies.
Guest:We're young, we're wild.
Guest:And Portland is like, I don't know, it's like approachable.
Guest:So we start coming up here every other weekend to see bands and stuff at La Luna.
Guest:So that would have been 93, the fall of 93.
Guest:And then as soon as the snow hit, we were up there every single day being snowboarders.
Guest:It was incredible.
Guest:And you get this orbit.
Guest:And you're at the height of your physicality, too.
Guest:You're jumping off pretty big shit.
Guest:Because what we were doing back home was just smaller.
Guest:And you get out west, and I had buddies who were becoming pros.
Guest:I was never really concerned about any of that.
Guest:I just got to hang with those guys.
Guest:And we realized all of our dreams over the course of about five winters.
Guest:You know, but, you know, I worked at a snowboard camp up here.
Guest:You know, one summer I was the only kid that was like a teetotaler.
Guest:So I drove the hospital van.
Guest:Kids would fuck themselves up and I'd drive them down to Portland.
Guest:I'd drop them off with this little urgent care.
Guest:I'd go to the record store because that's all, you know.
Guest:So I started doing that.
Guest:I started going to Alaska to wash dishes.
Guest:What were you doing for a job?
Guest:Well, for those first couple of years, I had pizza jobs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I was doing freelance art.
Guest:So it was all analog.
Guest:I was painting, drawing stuff, making logos, snowboard graphics for like local, local, small, small change things and bend.
Guest:But really whatever it took.
Guest:But then I started going to Alaska because I needed a computer.
Guest:So that was the summer of 96.
Guest:And I go up there and I wash dishes for like 100 hours a week.
Guest:Where?
Guest:For five months.
Guest:Anchorage.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:On sightseeing training.
Marc:A couple years in Anchorage I spent.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:What years?
Marc:My dad was stationed up there.
Marc:When you were like small.
Marc:Yeah, 69 through 71.
Marc:70, 71.
Guest:What an incredible place.
Marc:I don't have my recollections are limited to tone.
Marc:And a few weird moments.
Marc:But I love it.
Marc:It planted a seed in me.
Marc:I'm still very compelled by the Pacific Northwest because of the expanse.
Guest:My first summer up there, listen, there's nothing worse than happy hikers.
Guest:You know what I'm talking about.
Guest:Nalgene bottles, those stupid pants that you zip down to shorts and all this kind of shit.
Guest:there was one little record store in town that was my only splurge that summer i saved 10 grand in anchorage yeah that's how i got a computer right yeah that's how i got access to design yeah but you're up there and everyone's partying down and going ape and you know i just it just wasn't very like i remember i just remember one of the guys one of the cooks saying i know you want to go home you're excited to go start your fall and get my computer at the end of the song right he said but just so you know alaska's in you now
Guest:It was real poetic.
Guest:And I kind of freaked out.
Guest:And I said, oh, man, this is just a summer job.
Guest:Because that's really all it was.
Guest:But I got to tell you, man, I got the itch next spring just to be around that place.
Guest:And mainly because it didn't get hot.
Guest:It was beautiful.
Guest:There was a good record store.
Guest:And I worked a ton.
Guest:So that started basically being my way to pay for college, pay off credit cards, get ready for snowboard passes, whatever to come back for.
Guest:And then when I got myself into school in Minneapolis, that's how I kind of got myself in was with that cash.
Marc:So you're doing some local illustrating.
Marc:You're making a little money what they pay you for the art and what it goes on the sign or goes on an ad.
Guest:I was I was lettering futon covers.
Guest:You know, I was painting futon covers for a local place there.
Guest:I was lettering a chalkboard.
Guest:I would go and they give me a menu and I could, you know, put their shit daily.
Guest:Once a week and I'd take as much bread as I want back to the house and we'd live off this shit.
Guest:You know, my guys, you know, right.
Guest:And I made, I mean, you don't need a lot.
Guest:I was, there was six of us in a house or something and your share is $117 a month.
Guest:So you can make that in a cup, whatever, you know, and you know, you got to pass up at the hill.
Guest:So really, what do you need?
Guest:We hitchhike up to the hill.
Guest:You know, we're all sort of eating communally, you know, whatever.
Uh-huh.
Guest:it was just i don't know five winners that were really really cool well at what point did you think like well maybe i i need to to make a a life for myself well i think it was just seeing other guys do it make these leaps other guys that were allowed to go to school and get big you know degrees and stuff like who well guys that would guys that would come up and work for snowboard companies we started going to all these big trade shows right so you make this just to see the shit well you get to see the shit and see all the pros yeah and then you also realize how small it is right you know you get to you know the moment that you find out
Guest:you know how small your favorite band is or the politic yeah you grow up and I don't even want to know anymore because at 41 years old it hurts to hear these things so we go down and we see these all the companies I was 19 20 years old talk about pool skating we got you ever heard of the nude bowl out in California no okay well this is one of the classics skateboarders listening to this shit would understand and listen I was I got I caught one grind that day right in the nude bowl scared the shit I mean this is the real deal what does it mean caught a grind
Guest:I just went up and I was just carving and come down.
Guest:And as a man of size, I was with guys that knew what the fuck they were doing.
Guest:But I caught one guy in the nude bowl.
Guest:And that's where I was like, I've reached the pinnacle of doing this stuff.
Guest:I mean, I grew up doing it.
Guest:But until you slam...
Guest:in a ditch in Las Vegas, going fast in these little banks, and my elbow still hurts to this day.
Guest:That's where you sort of realize I was kind of done.
Guest:I was about 97.
Guest:So it was basically, it wasn't really fun to snowboard anymore.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Well, because it just became an orbit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I learned the hill.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I saw buddies becoming professionals.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I was drawing.
Guest:I had my computer from Alaska and I'm working.
Guest:But in that small town, you're seeing there's like a couple of guys that have it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't want to go and like, you know, fight those guys.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like, you know, be in a pecking order.
Guest:I knew I was at the very, very bottom.
Guest:They let you know.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I just kind of tried to go a little bit above it.
Guest:Went to a couple more summers in Alaska, a couple more winters, laid low.
Guest:I worked a ton on my own.
Guest:It was all just for my buddies.
Guest:You know, freelance, fun lance, just really just learning, right?
Guest:But I started looking at school.
Guest:Were you doing gig posters?
Guest:just for a couple buddies yeah no i just didn't know bands right come up and see all the here in portland right you know now we come up here and groups of guys would go see some goddamn offspring or something yeah i'd be going to see the jesus lizard right now i mean the good stuff yeah i'm so thankful man because you got to make a choice
Guest:You know, are we going to see goddamn girls against boys?
Guest:We are.
Guest:We're going to see them at a crusty little place.
Guest:Are we going to see the Lemonheads?
Guest:I kind of saw that stuff, too.
Guest:But we knew how to find the weird shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Portland offered it.
Guest:So I'm told you got to go to school.
Guest:So I go back to the Midwest because I got to I got to get I got to get out of the West.
Guest:You love the Midwest.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I didn't.
Guest:I loved leaving it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you go back there and you see all this shit going on.
Guest:And I went to little schools and I didn't know what I had.
Guest:I had a portfolio, but it was all just from a very like organic.
Guest:I made shit for my buddies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I show all this work and I'm thinking they're going to say, get the hell out of here.
Guest:And the first school said, we can't have you here because we want you to go up the food chain a little bit.
Guest:So I just was like, ooh.
Guest:So then I went to some other school, and I made my way up to this incredible school in Minneapolis, and they were the nicest people.
Guest:And Minneapolis was the home of the replacements.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the Husker Do's.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then Chuck Anderson's.
Guest:You know, Charles Spence, my favorite graphic designer of all time from the CSA Empire, Charles Spencer Anderson.
Guest:What's his thing?
Yeah.
Guest:It's a big archive, incredible detail.
Guest:My dad could enjoy their work, you know.
Guest:The French paper company was one of those.
Guest:Niles, Michigan, six generations of paper, French paper company.
Guest:Incredible people, Niles, Michigan.
Marc:What was their logos?
Guest:it's so I mean there's so much I mean I can show you books but what Chuck did was he would go find all that dead like sort of like advertising art and stuff and would clean that stuff up and rescue it and you know then you could go buy it from an archive so someone could buy that old stock stuff because some old guy would die and then you know
Guest:His work would die with it.
Guest:How do you use it?
Marc:What do you mean?
Guest:What are you rescuing?
Guest:So he would rescue sort of like something you might find on like a matchbook cover or something.
Guest:So then Chuck would go hunt down the old illustrator, find a wealth of this stuff, buy the collection, clean it all up.
Guest:Clean it up how?
Guest:computers and stuff scan it clean it but put it into a nice little book i could show you the books i got the whole message as a resource yeah okay so i'm seeing this guy now what was cool in 1995 96 97 it was all that skittery scrattery sort of sorry about the train it's okay man okay uh all that you know post post postmodern very highfalutin graphic design yeah i was trying to emulate it too until i found these guys in minneapolis that were like
Guest:i don't know it was sort of like like i said my dad could enjoy it i could look at it yeah because it looked like sometimes it looked just like something that you found out of an old popular mechanic sure like your poster love the poster because that was just meant to be just sort of an homage to shit that you find in a dumpster that's it there's no design it's just meant to be stupid and then make funny copy for it so that's what these guys did and i discovered these guys out of delaware called house industries
Guest:You might be familiar with those guys.
Guest:You should be.
Guest:House Industries.
Guest:But they did all sorts of typefaces.
Guest:But what they did, House Industries and Chuck did for me, they made design look fun.
Guest:And somehow those guys made a living.
Guest:All these 20 years later, I've been able to meet them and shit.
Guest:Chuck's a bit of a mentor.
Guest:I know the guys at House.
Guest:We fuck with each other on Twitters and things.
Guest:I send them stuff.
Guest:They send me stuff.
Guest:And, you know, I went and knocked on the door because I was doing fall tours just by myself, you know, driving around.
Guest:Because, see, I'd go home.
Guest:I was in a minivan, road tripping back and forth.
Guest:Is it after college, after minivan?
Guest:Just every couple times a year.
Guest:I'd drive back and forth and I'd go junk.
Guest:But then when I leave the West, I went and hit like I went to Delaware.
Guest:I've never been to Delaware.
Guest:And I knocked on the doors of House Industries.
Guest:And I have them built up in my mind.
Guest:There's this big fucking thing.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And a guy answers the door and he's kind of surprised.
Guest:And we're still buddies to this day.
Guest:They let me in.
Guest:But see.
Marc:Well, what was it like?
Marc:Was it disappointing?
Marc:Were you surprised?
Guest:No, it was like six or seven guys.
Guest:But it was the best work in the world.
Guest:It was the power of design.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Guest:What I knew of it as a fan.
Guest:attracted me all the way to this little place in delaware right and then they were cool on top of that okay yeah because listen i'm not gonna i'm not gonna name any fucking names but i did that with other guys i was into and they weren't cool right does that make sense yeah yeah so when you start to stack up the dicks from the good guys there was a certain design sense to the good guys yeah and that's what really changed me yeah and because it wasn't about who was the most fashionable
Guest:It was about the guys that were, it wasn't necessarily just about being fun.
Guest:It was just, there was a certain charm and they still did the job, you know?
Marc:And you liked the work.
Marc:I got to assume there's not a lot of kids that show up going like, I love you guys.
Guest:Well, they, they freaked out because it's somewhere in their fucking, you know, some of the materials that said show up.
Guest:So I did, you know, and that's what happens to me now, man.
Guest:Oh, they come.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'd make sure that I'm sure it happens to you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, make sure they come to my house, ax murderers or whatever.
Marc:It's hard to tell sometimes, but we're okay.
Guest:I've had a couple guys come in here that were a little off.
Guest:But I was real gentle and just had to kind of say, hey, you've got to go, man.
Guest:That scared me, too.
Guest:Because those guys let me in, and I try to make the same thing now.
Marc:But you felt that they were dangerous or just a little too much?
Guest:Those guys who came to my shop here, they were just a little off.
Guest:Tell them it's time to go.
Marc:What are they looking for?
Marc:Why are they coming here?
Guest:Well, they're fans for my website or whatever, or the way I write, or the way I talk, or the way that I would write them back.
Guest:I've written all the kids back, man.
Guest:You know?
Marc:Yeah, it happens.
Guest:I know people always say there's no time for that shit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I made the time all these years, you know?
Marc:So, okay, so you go to the college in Minneapolis.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And now, you know, you've got more confidence.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You find maybe you've got a little style happening of your own.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:There's also a reaction against what was cool at the time, too, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:See, I go back to Minneapolis.
Guest:And it was a lot.
Guest:Talk about style.
Guest:Man, kids were getting jobs with, I mean, dripping whatever the latest bullshit was.
Guest:But I wasn't really into that skittery-scrattery.
Guest:Remember the movie Seven?
Guest:In the start of the movie, it's like whatever.
Guest:That's what was in hot fashion.
Marc:Not your thing, not your thing.
Guest:Well, they were learning how to do it.
Guest:I couldn't learn how to do it.
Guest:I liked the grid.
Guest:I liked logos.
Guest:I liked old maps that still worked.
Guest:I liked things that worked 40 years ago and still worked.
Guest:And that might be the roll of toilet paper.
Guest:So see, you've got to tell you what diameter it is and how many more rolls are left.
Guest:That's called being a tradesman, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I wasn't trying to go be the hottest shit in town.
Guest:I want to get a job.
Guest:I got made fun of by a teacher because when you're doing one of your reviews and it was like, well, what do you want to do with what you got going?
Guest:And I said, I want to go make a living.
Guest:That wasn't a big enough answer.
Guest:It was total bullshit.
Guest:I was scared.
Guest:I had loans.
Guest:I had things.
Guest:I had stuff.
Guest:I paid for myself to go.
Guest:I got a big scholarship somehow from these guys, which was incredible.
Guest:But it was very pragmatic.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I'm learning a skill set, and I'm going to go get a job.
Guest:And wherever I land, I'm going to be good with it because it beats fucking washing dishes in Alaska.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's not what they train you for.
Guest:They train you to go to the... Everyone's, you know, measuring dicks trying to get to the coolest place in town, which was called the Walker Art Center, which is incredible.
Guest:I got to do my talk at the Walker Art Center, right?
Guest:That's the coolest thing in all of Minnesota.
Guest:But one or two kids got to go there, you know, and work, and get the big job.
Guest:98 or 99 of the 100, they went and had jobs at 3M and Cabela's and just regular things, Target, whatever you want to get, just regular jobs.
Yeah.
Guest:i was okay with that you like the 3m logo oh yeah it's a classic i mean i got i got made fun of that i got made fun of for that shit yeah you know because it wasn't you're supposed to go work in la or new york be part of the what's happening now i was just i was excited to stay in minneapolis and then i threw it all away and went to southern california
Guest:well how'd that go that you're going for a job yeah snowboarding magazine you got hired i got hired to do what a bunch of guys i met from uh camp yeah summer 95 yeah this is about 2000 right getting done with school and i got courted to go have like a real job and then and then and then i get this little hook oh fucking san clemente orange county's the worst sure
Guest:but it was the mag i read growing up and i couldn't say no so i've got i took this job i go all the way down to california throw my life away in the midwest and i'm immersed back in snowboarding right what are you doing what's your job art director for a snowboard magazine laying out magazines yeah you know so i got a stack over there about 25 mags from that two years i was there
Guest:and i got to work with all my buddies at snowboarder and it was you get there and it's supposed to be this big professional job but you realize it's just seven or eight of us like a group like a like a little like a little game because in that hierarchy of work even the building we're in yeah surfing's the hot right i don't step in the ocean i'm from lake michigan right okay i don't do very well on a beach yeah okay i can they're the cool guys and we're the scumbag snowboarders so there's like a chip on your shoulder
Guest:And, you know, you get to come in and you learn how to make a magazine, which is about a month long.
Marc:Did you learn how to do that?
Marc:You didn't have any idea.
Guest:Well, I had a little bit of idea of like just sort of publication design, but then you get there and it's page by page.
Guest:So I learned how to churn out a lot of stuff and fast and be efficient, work well with all my buddies, still be the dark cloud that I was and, you know, constantly challenging myself or freaking out or not liking living in California.
Guest:Man, I tried to go to L.A.,
Guest:and go see that shit.
Guest:I went and saw, well, I saw Mercury Rev one time.
Guest:I went and seen, you know, Mascus.
Guest:All these years have been a dinosaur family.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I remember one time leaving fucking Orange County and, you know, five and, you try to get up to what, Trocadero or something or whatever?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was on that truck.
Marc:Troubadour.
Marc:Troubadour on Sunset.
Guest:Four hours.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Of bullshit.
Marc:Four hours.
Marc:To get up there.
Guest:80 miles because there was an accident.
Guest:There's something.
Guest:You got to get rerouted.
Guest:That's where I just knew this isn't, I don't care what this, what riches are here.
Okay.
Marc:No, that's what'll do it to you.
Marc:It's the same with me.
Marc:It's like, this is never going to end.
Guest:It broke my heart.
Guest:The traffic.
Guest:I just didn't get to see my band, you know, Mascus or whatever, you know, whatever it was.
Guest:Because of bullshit.
Guest:Because it was just like fast and faster and fastest.
Guest:And everyone's like, there's a hierarchy.
Guest:Who's the good looking ones?
Guest:I'm with a bunch of surfers, man.
Marc:I get that, but you didn't get to see your band because there was a traffic problem.
Guest:I know, but what I'm getting at is you get this awesome job with a great group of guys, and then you're in a place where it's 90 fucking degrees every day, and I'm near tears pulling up to my job every morning because it was just like I wanted to be back in Minneapolis where it was gritty.
Guest:But I did the mag.
Guest:But you get down there, and as a Midwesterner, I didn't quit the job.
Guest:I got offered a job within two weeks at another place.
Guest:Didn't take it.
Guest:did my two-year stint you know with my guys and then i got rescued back to portland but see that's my first like job job you know and it was like i was an art director for a snowboard mag you know and we got to see the mag in supermarkets in my hometown and you did it i did it my greatest stories i just went home for the summer yeah a couple weeks and
Guest:you know i got picked on as a kid who didn't right yeah i remember one of the guys that got one on me you know he got he's good looking he had hair on his back i remember that yeah i was i was young i was 12 when i started high school or whatever 13. and he he got a couple on me yeah i mean one time i went back for my 10-year anniversary yeah reunion yeah reunion yeah and you know you're i got to bring back a whole palette of magazines
Guest:So I go to somewhere.
Guest:I went to some sporting goods store to get something.
Guest:And I'm going through the line, and he's the guy ringing up.
Guest:Now, listen, I have nothing against guys in sporting goods stores for a living.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I look, and I go, well, hey, what's going on?
Guest:He said, well, look at you.
Guest:You know, it's something to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now, fine.
Guest:And he goes, well, what are you doing?
Guest:And I go.
Guest:There's my, my mag in a rack.
Guest:I go, I'm the art director of a snowboarding mag and just fucking walked out.
Guest:Anyway, fuck that guy.
Guest:But I got to say that.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that was just like poignant because, um, I went out and I had, that was already, had lived out West as an, I snowboarded with my buddies, you know?
Guest:And then I did it pretty gross along the way, you know, got my school done and,
Guest:It was that moment where I realized I kind of did it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was making 37,000 bucks a year and not having a cent left over.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, but still could make it down in California.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Pay my rent and shit.
Marc:That's a good feeling to pursue something that you love and you believe in and then you nail it and then you got something to show for yourself.
Guest:You just don't really know if you're ever even going to make it and you're okay with that.
Guest:You know, somewhere in Alaska, Washington, I could always go back to that.
Guest:sure you could go back now probably i would love to go up there just to quit i have these fantasies about it just to leave them high and drag because i wanted to quit every day mark every day of it yeah man the middle of a run yeah they stopped the train and you're like out and we're like the guy died that mccannless guy died not in the woods you know what's in the wild or whatever yeah that kind of yeah we used to drive by that like two or three miles and i always had these fantasies like just stop the train you get to stop to let trains pass
Guest:And I'd be like grabbing my Walkman.
Guest:I'm just going to fucking hike out to the Fairbanks Highway or whatever.
Guest:That was every meal shift.
Guest:Because it just was hard to be up to.
Guest:Where were you doing this dish washing?
Guest:On a train.
Guest:I was on a train washing dishes.
Guest:We'd pick up all these old people.
Guest:and they would you know on these big boats princess tours on the big cruise ships love boat yeah we get them on the love train we pick them up five in the fucking morning we feed them a couple meals and we work our way up to fairbanks yeah and i'd work what 16 hours that day anything past eight hours is overtime right so you're making good money and then everyone's stealing and shit it was real fun you know and you come back the next day so that's two days
Guest:32 hours or something and man you got a whole work you know four days worth in those two days take a day off do it again now i would work extra shifts i'd work six of eight days you know seven of eight days and i did that for five fucking five or four summers so you come up here to portland after you go back home victoriously and and and teach that guy at the sporting group for a lesson and what brought you back up here he was a dick
Guest:Well, I got a job.
Guest:And I was telling you about my buddy John over here.
Guest:He actually goes by Goo.
Guest:But Goo called me and said, hey, we're called Cinco Design.
Guest:We're looking for guys.
Guest:You're in the industry of snowboarding.
Guest:Do you know someone who will come up to Portland?
Guest:Do you know a young kid?
Guest:And I said, yeah, man, fucking me.
Guest:Get me out of here.
Guest:So they flew me up.
Guest:I got to see Portland.
Guest:I didn't care.
Guest:I didn't care.
Guest:you know how much money it was just like i got back to portland yeah and they were it was called senko designs to this day there was about 16 when i went there yeah there's probably 70 people there now it's an incredible place in town but you know you you get there i'm instantly and i get into this place i'm instantly have to get on the plane to go back to california
Guest:You know, like a couple weeks later.
Guest:Why?
Guest:We worked for Nixon Watches.
Guest:So, you know, you ever heard of Nixon Watches?
Marc:No.
Guest:Okay, well, this is the... Oh, I remember.
Guest:Yeah, I remember them.
Guest:Yeah, this is Antonidas.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So this little brand... They were an account.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So you got this Cinco design.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And you go in and they are inventing these little brands, Gravis Shoes, Nixon Watches.
Guest:These guys are coming up with these great ideas and saying, go.
Guest:They make the logo.
Guest:They make the whole look.
Guest:We're making shoe boxes.
Guest:We're making watches.
Guest:So I got to work on the Nixon account right away.
Guest:I mean, this is one of the, today, still, is one of the greatest action sport brands.
Guest:They're way bigger than that now.
Guest:But back then, they were the pinnacle.
Guest:And I get to work for the place that makes the stuff.
Guest:It was incredible.
Guest:you know but you know i did that two years and i also got to see you know like meetings about meetings and emails about emails and you know just we played we played ping pong all day and shit and it freaked me out you know you did some work you're proud of i worked my ass off there i'd stay late were you getting recognized for your work
Guest:Not really was never really.
Guest:No, we were just I was making a good living.
Guest:Yeah, I was making great money there.
Guest:I think I made 65 grand, man.
Guest:Yeah, that was a lot for I was 30, you know, and I had my school out of the way and I had already snowboards had some credibility to that shit.
Guest:I'd lived it, you know, because you meet some rat fuck kid and you're like,
Guest:He's going to size me up for being big or being out of it.
Guest:And I'll say, I lived in the mountains for five years and I did that shit.
Marc:And then they'll be like, whoa, you know, whatever.
Marc:What's the alliance between what you do and the advertising industry?
Guest:It's a little bit different deal.
Guest:Because they come to you with, I wouldn't know, man.
Guest:I've been so lucky.
Guest:My gross little path, we worked on small brands.
Guest:But we'd make advertisements.
Guest:But that's a little bit different.
Marc:But so that means that sometimes you're working for a company and you might have to deal with the advertising company they hire.
Guest:I mean, there's all kinds of elements.
Guest:For the most part, here's this job, making a good living, working with your friends.
Guest:But, you know, that kid gives you the job from Burton Snowboards or whatever the hell we're working for.
Guest:It's still cool stuff.
Marc:Now, okay, so you hit the wall after two years?
Marc:Two years.
Marc:And what did you do?
Marc:I quit.
Marc:To do what?
Guest:Get free.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's where I got free.
Guest:That was 2004.
Guest:And what did you do then?
Guest:I went out on my own.
Guest:I saved a bunch of cash.
Guest:I bought a little house.
Guest:I tricked out my basement.
Guest:I had two little clients that were starting, Cole Headwear and Union Binding Company.
Guest:So these are two little, so snowboard bindings and then headwear, like hats and beanies and shit.
Guest:And these are friends that are starting these things out of Seattle.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I'm going to do the graphics.
Guest:So here I am at the Cinco Design where I'm watching these guys invent these Nixons and stuff, and I get to do this very small scale.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So that's enough for me to put my month in over there, jump out.
Guest:My mom and dad freaked out because I bought a house.
Guest:They're like, why are you quitting your job?
Guest:Well, right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because that's just what, it's not what you do in the Midwest.
Guest:You work forever until, you know, whatever.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Until you break.
Guest:So I, I jump out, you know, it was 2004.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh, uh, you know, start this, uh, uh, draplin design company, right?
Guest:Whatever that meant.
Guest:I can't even have a, I got a business license three years ago.
Guest:That's a little secret for everybody who's listening, but I didn't even know you had to have one.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I just started working on my own.
Guest:And that first year, I started to make money.
Guest:I saved the fuck out of it.
Guest:That little house I bought took me five and a half years.
Guest:I paid it off with graphic fucking design.
Guest:And working, there's been some big ones, but there were a lot of crusty ones.
Guest:Because see, that little union-binding company, your little coal headwear, you get a nice little retainer.
Guest:The next year, you get a little more, like 5%.
Marc:What's the longest you've been with one client?
Guest:Ten years and ten years Union and Cole.
Guest:These are my brothers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Now, have you been, like, I imagine in your industry, like any other industry, their, like, recognition and, like, you know, you have these mentors of yours.
Marc:Have they sort of, like, have you been, like, Aaron Draplin's the made guy?
Guest:Well, I think because of the tour, you know, I'm a bit of an entertainer these days, Mark.
Guest:And I have gone fucking everywhere.
Guest:How many shows did you do last year?
Guest:A lot.
Guest:I did 41.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Well, what do you do out there?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:So listen, I worked on clients for at least five or six years.
Guest:When I told you how I moved in here, that's when we kind of, we started, you know, I brought all my clients in here.
Guest:And I mean, I go back and look at those folders.
Guest:There's 50 folders a year.
Guest:That means there's 50 different jobs a year, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Of which two are big retainers.
Guest:A snowboard mag called Snowboard Mag that my buddies and I started.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And what, you know, started to like,
Guest:compete with the old mags we worked for we started that thing here in my fucking basement yeah sold it and shit when we were done with it i mean just basically just to pay everyone back but these are small crusty little brands these are indie bands if you will yeah that that started to become real you know so i did that for a number of years and then i got my first invite to go and talk
Guest:So I'm coasting along.
Guest:I'm saving money.
Guest:I'm working on stuff.
Guest:I can't blur the line between whether or not I even like it because they're my friends, and it's making logos, and it's making good work, and you're getting paid well.
Guest:Everything was incredible.
Guest:And this guy, David Carson, is a big, big fucking name in graphic design, like has books written about him and shit.
Guest:He dropped out of a gig, and these guys said, come and tell your story to us.
Guest:That was 2009.
Guest:So I did.
Guest:And I went to Savannah and I told my story and I was scared shitless getting up and holding the mic and all weird and sweaty and the whole bit.
Guest:But that's where it started.
Guest:And they like to talk then.
Guest:And we're five years in now.
Guest:So it's been 192 shows.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I've gone everywhere.
Marc:And you're talking to design students.
Guest:Design students, conferences, nerd conferences, coders, going to big agencies and just kind of riling them up.
Guest:And I've got some stories.
Guest:I've got some tall tales.
Guest:That's what I call it, tall tales from a large man.
Guest:Because they look at me as this big animal, and I am, but then there's a couple stories that really freak them out.
Guest:And I can't talk about them on here because you've got to go see the live show.
Guest:But it's just kind of like they're expecting action sports things and stuff and all the bullshit I've been talking about for years, and then I hit them with these things, and they flip out.
Guest:So...
Guest:it's meant to be fun but i've gone everywhere talking tell me about you know your dad before he passed and your mom is she uh around yeah my mom's around oh great i just saw her two weeks ago so was he able to enjoy all this stuff you put he put inside your head yeah yeah yeah see okay i would take my dad was funny yeah right so when we stubbed our toe when we were kids first thing you'd say is should i call a tow truck uh-huh now listen yeah i mean bad jokes yeah but also he was known for putting his hands on some lady and saying
Guest:How many more months till the baby's done?
Guest:And then she wasn't pregnant.
Guest:She was 48 years old.
Guest:My mom would get all pissed off.
Guest:But he played Santa Claus for like poor kids.
Guest:So he was gregarious and funny as shit.
Guest:And, you know, I got to, you know, he got to open up a couple of my shows.
Guest:What'd you call Dean last night?
Guest:He was like, what'd he call it?
Guest:Like the, he's the opener?
Guest:What'd he call it?
Guest:The feature actor.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:My dad was my feature actor.
Guest:And he told jokes.
Guest:Here's one of his jokes, right?
Guest:He said, what's the difference?
Guest:He goes, this is a joke for, you guys are into color theory and graphic design.
Guest:And he says, what's the difference between pink and purple?
Guest:What?
Guest:The grip.
Guest:get it you're the guy who writes jokes the grip if you fucking squeeze that thing it's pink okay okay okay this is in front of 200 people how'd it do they kind of gasped but my dad was telling jokes yeah and he was looking at me i'd say yeah he wrote his stuff out because we grew up oh man we have so many jokes yeah i mean you know that's that's what i remember from my dad is like all the bad jokes growing up
Guest:It's just the idea that this is what we grew up around and my dad entertaining our whole family, us.
Guest:It's very quiet in our house now because my dad, you know, he just, you know, I don't know.
Guest:Anytime you're working on math, he'd say, have you learned your gazintas?
Guest:They'd say gazintas.
Guest:He'd say, yeah, two gazinta four two times.
Guest:Where does he get this shit?
Guest:You know?
Guest:I mean, these are old.
Guest:They're like, because he's a salesman.
Guest:And he went to tool shops with tough, Harley-looking guys.
Guest:In town here, the kids play that kind of thing.
Guest:And motherfuckers make websites during the day.
Guest:They got the look.
Guest:My dad, we were raised around those guys.
Guest:When you go into a tool shop, you break the ice, and he knew all the jokes.
Guest:So remember, like, when the shuttle blew up and shit?
Guest:My dad knew all the Chris McCoff.
Guest:You know, it's a currency these guys would know.
Guest:And he would be on kind of stage with these guys.
Guest:So, you know,
Guest:that's like you know that's what i remember you know i've got his last joke he told me the best one yeah go ahead fuck it let's do it okay he says hey aaron you hear about the uh two mountain men walking in the woods yeah this is yeah he says he's walking he says hey man how you been the guy goes oh i've been hunting fishing and trapping he says uh he says uh uh hey i'm having a party at my cabin tonight
Guest:The guy goes, hey, having a party at your cabin?
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:The guy says, oh, it's going to be great.
Guest:There's going to be dancing.
Guest:There's going to be fighting, fucking, sucking, eating, playing cards.
Guest:The guy goes, shit, sounds like a good time.
Guest:Who's all going?
Guest:He goes, oh, it's just me and you.
Guest:That's my dad's last joke.
Guest:He told me that the day before he died.
Guest:Now, I never heard that joke.
Guest:So to bring him in here, he would dig and he would see all my dead shit, go through my drawers and just say...
Guest:did you steal this from me i said yeah you know and we'd have this full circle yeah yeah he taught me that he taught me how to clean things up when you're done with it that's the anvil you know pound out all the metal pieces yeah you know all these old things my dad taught me how to change brakes and change my oil and you know stuff that dads teach kids you know and if i need to i got a volvo now it's beautiful you know and i don't need to even do that shit anymore but it's like you know that's what he was from but more importantly just taught us how to laugh
Guest:You know, I know it sounds a little kind of almost kind of corny, but it's like I'm so fucking thankful that my dad, when buddies would come over, my dad would like pull him aside and like, how you doing?
Guest:Like hug him.
Guest:You want a beer?
Guest:You want a sandwich?
Guest:You know, whatever.
Guest:My dad had a fridge with 100 beers in it.
Guest:because you never knew when Wisconsin was going to invade.
Guest:You never know.
Guest:A hundred beers.
Guest:And he wasn't a big drinker.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's like those little things.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and like some of the dads that go meet, you know, they'd be like pissed off that you parked in their driveway, you know.
Marc:Your dad just had good spirits.
Guest:I had them for 40 years.
Guest:So, you know, I was all afraid that you'd be like, go look at my shit and say, what about your dad?
Guest:But, man, I had them for 40 years.
Guest:And, man, we are saving so much on groceries.
Guest:So things are good, man.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:You know, I mean, it's...
Guest:what do you do after someone dies where does he go does he is he is he just on the other plane over you know or just in the other what planetary you know like cosmic i after my dad died i don't really care what any of the superstitions are i started to go read about the cosmos because if you go in one direction forever that's real you know i liked how crazy you go on the thing and you talk about what you're into and how weird you are and all the neurotic this
Guest:I've had no time for that because I've just been out 14 giga miles away, you know, wondering, where's my dad?
Guest:You know, did he go to a higher plane?
Guest:When you die, does he go?
Guest:Because we were on a plane when he died.
Guest:We were there on a plane.
Guest:And he died, and I got to say goodbye to him in front of 350 fucking people.
Guest:You know, and it was like a Viking kind of thing or something.
Marc:What do you mean in front of 350?
Guest:He died on a plane.
Guest:We were flying back from Minneapolis, and we'd get taken off, and my dad kind of started to get –
Guest:So, just so you know who you're fucking with, I'm a Delta Diamond flyer these days.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just so you know.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You a Delta Diamond?
Marc:No, American Platinum.
Guest:Someday you'll get there.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But, I get all these first class upgrades, not because of how much I've been going on the gigs.
Guest:And that day, I got to upgrade to first class.
Guest:So, Lee and my mom and my dad are in the back seats, and I get upgraded.
Guest:So, I said, Dad, you're not feeling good.
Guest:Go take the front seat.
Guest:And he does.
Guest:you know and the plane takes off and he just kind of you know before it took off he said i'm just not feeling good i'm a little queasy i just want to get back to portland because what it was we were back i was doing my biggest show i've ever done for this aiga show in minneapolis 2 500 people like a symphony hall man and i did my talk i had 30 minutes i did 45 minutes went over i guess it called killed i got a standing o and my mom and dad they were in the crowd they got to see it
Guest:So, all right, because they tell you at the moment, they say, you know, when you see the light, we're going to take your picture for the DVD.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So you're supposed to do this.
Guest:Put your hands together like the girl from Facebook did, you know, these smart people.
Guest:For my moment, I just went, Dad, I told you, right?
Guest:Because I was fucking with my dad drove a Ford Tempo station wagon.
Guest:I showed a picture of him with this piece of shit station wagon, making fun of him.
Guest:He loved it.
Guest:And the next day he fucking dies, right, on this plane.
Guest:So we're coming back from Minneapolis to Portland because they were out here visiting us here in Portland.
Guest:I'd bring them out every three, four months.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the plane takes off, and he just kind of slumped, and my mom was there, and he slumped, and then they're checking pulses and what do you call it, stewardesses and the whole deal.
Guest:You know, this woman freaked out kind of, and they're all medical, whatever, but it's like –
Guest:He died on the plane.
Guest:They were doing the whole deal.
Guest:And, you know, I was ready to help them get off.
Guest:He was a big man.
Guest:I helped him get off the seat onto the ground.
Guest:There's all the people behind us praying and shit.
Guest:I don't really remember all of it.
Marc:Was there a doctor on the plane?
Guest:Some kind of veterinarian or something.
Guest:But she knew the basics of the vitals.
Guest:And they were, like, counting.
Guest:And, you know, here's the worst moment of your whole life with your dad.
Guest:but it's oddly okay because i had them you know what i mean it sucks because i wish my sisters would have been there if that's the way it's got to go we had to call them when we got off they had to land the plane in somewhere in montana because it's an emergency and i'm thinking you know there's going to be like a ambulance that comes and picks him up and he's gonna be on life support or something because they're doing that stuff you press it on his chest and they got him sort of stabilized
Guest:He had a heart attack.
Guest:Well, he died in the air.
Guest:And they do that so we don't flip out, I guess.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They land the plane.
Guest:A fireman came up to me and said, I'm sorry, son.
Guest:We lost your dad.
Guest:And I went, you know, I didn't lose it.
Guest:I just went and laid with him and kind of said, hey.
Guest:you know i got to be with my dad when he fucking died and say goodbye and then he dies and they put him in a fucking ambulance and you guard him because you know it's my dad he was so fucking cool to northern michigan and there were 500 people at his fucking funeral yeah
Guest:and carol from the fucking ups was there and she'd say your dad would come in every friday he'd say he'd make sure there was a line he'd fill out the paperwork and he'd say carol are there two j's of marijuana that's a joke right and she was crying so they had a good sound send off you had that moment was it awkward but you're beautiful very very weird but you know i i talked to him every day
Guest:People send photos and paintings and things of my dad because I celebrated him on my website.
Guest:I celebrated him on my fucking arm.
Guest:That's my dad.
Guest:You know, he was incredible.
Guest:My mom, Lauren Draplin, is just as incredible in a different, quiet way.
Guest:You know, my dad, he hogged the fucking limelight.
Guest:But, you know, when your dad goes like that, it really made me think just how wonderful my mom is.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Because then, you know...
Guest:it's just weird we go home now and it's just it's just real quiet sure my dad always had a tiger game going yeah making soup he would cut each bean twice for two farts for each bean yeah yeah see nothing on my comedy podcast i'm trying to talk you know because he was funny yeah
Guest:well it's beautiful man i mean it sounds like you fully integrated the spirit of your old man and with respect and and uh reverence i got to show him you know he saw me the hell of a hell of a night that last night he saw them in these things you know he would freak out my mom would print things off of you know the websites and see so for those years i mean it's been a year and a half but and i'm not counting days but i got to share this shit with him and on top of that
Guest:I'd go home.
Guest:I've done well.
Guest:I've saved it all.
Guest:So if he was watching his entire game on a small television, I'd go to Best Buy, buy him a big fucking 58-inch whatever, and freak him out.
Guest:Because it flipped.
Guest:My dad took care of us so well.
Marc:That's fucking beautiful, dude.
Guest:I took care of them.
Marc:I still do.
Marc:Beautiful.
Marc:Well, I think it's beautiful.
Marc:The whole thing is just really fucking amazing.
Marc:And you're doing amazing stuff.
Guest:Well, thanks, man.
Guest:Appreciate you coming in here.
Guest:I got to thank Lee McColli, okay?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I got to thank my little sister Leah and Jacob and Oliver.
Guest:I got to thank my mom, Lauren Draplin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got to thank David and Goo and everybody else in my life.
Guest:Thank you, guys.
Guest:Lee McColli, everybody.
Guest:Big fan of WTF.
Guest:Lee McColli, she's going to go nuts.
Guest:Okay, the show is done.
Marc:Good talking to you.
Guest:Thanks, man.
Marc:Compelling guy, that Aaron James Draplin.
Marc:Cool stuff, too.
Marc:I love those notebooks.
Marc:But, like, it was fucking touching, man.
Marc:He's a good dude, self-made dude, and interesting guy.
Marc:I hope you dug it.
Marc:What do we got here at the end?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Maybe go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:Get some JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:What else?
Marc:Get on the mailing list.
Marc:Get the Howell Premium.
Marc:Check out the shit.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Do what you got to do.
Marc:Guitar, maybe?
Marc:You want to do a little guitar?
Marc:Do I have a pick?
Marc:I've been playing with going straight into these amps.
Marc:This is the Black Beauty into the Little Beast.
Marc:It's a 65 champ.
Marc:That's what that is.
Marc:That's what you're going to hear.
Guest:guitar solo
Marc:Boomer lives!