Episode 644 - John Mayall / Dan Pashman
Guest:All right, let's do this.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:What the fuckers?
Guest:What the fuck buddies?
Guest:What the fucking ears?
Guest:What the fucksters?
Guest:What the fuck abilities?
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:This is Mark Marin.
Guest:This is WTF.
Marc:This is my podcast.
Marc:Welcome to it.
Marc:What have I got to tell you?
Marc:A couple things.
Marc:First of all, John Mayall is on the show today.
Marc:And I don't know how many of you know who he is, but John Mayall and the Blues Breakers were a very important band.
Marc:Not just in John's own right, but the fact that a lot of people started in that band, the Blues Breakers.
Marc:People like Eric Clapton, perhaps you know him.
Marc:People like John McVie, Mick Fleetwood, Peter Green.
Marc:Peter Green, come on.
Marc:But anyways, I got the opportunity to talk to John Mayall, and I took it.
Marc:So John came over to my house, and we talked about the old days.
Marc:We talked about the blues, and we talked a bit about Peter Green because, as some of you know, I'm a bit obsessed with Peter Green.
Marc:Also on today's show, Mr. Dan Pashman.
Marc:Dan hosts the Sporkful Podcast and the Cooking Channel web series You're Eating It Wrong.
Marc:Both of these are good outlets for Pashman's specific type of obsessive-compulsive bullshit, which I enjoy.
Marc:Dan and I go back a bit.
Marc:We met at Air America back in the day when I started that job, and he was an associate producer.
Marc:And he had a crew cut, and I couldn't understand why he had a crew cut.
Marc:And he scratches his head a lot when he's thinking.
Marc:And he has a very distinct laugh that can go either way depending on your mood in terms of how you receive it and the intensity of whether you're receiving joy or, wow, that's annoying.
Marc:But Dan will be on.
Marc:And I know the cat's out of the bag.
Marc:I understand that.
Marc:I understand that I got a big mouth.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:I want you people to know things, but sometimes I shouldn't say things.
Marc:You know what I'm talking about?
Marc:Are any of you aware of what I'm talking about?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I have put it out into the world.
Marc:But in my mind, I was just in conversation.
Marc:I did an event where I was interviewed for the New Yorker Fest and I was asked by a member of the audience about Lorne Michaels.
Marc:And I said, yes, I'm going to be interviewing Lorne Michaels.
Marc:Now, we've all been waiting for this.
Marc:On some level, no one's been waiting for it more than me.
Marc:But on another level, in my mind, even if it didn't happen, it would be fine.
Marc:That would honor the story.
Marc:for those of you who frame it in the Moby Dick narrative, that I should not get the white whale.
Marc:But the truth is, I did get him.
Marc:I did.
Marc:I don't really want to go into details about what was said.
Marc:You'll hear it eventually.
Marc:You will hear it.
Marc:The thing is, here's the problem.
Marc:We've always joked that if I got to interview Lorne,
Marc:It would probably be the last episode of the show.
Marc:That would be the last episode of the show.
Marc:Okay, so now we have it.
Marc:And we're not really sure what's next.
Marc:Do you understand?
Marc:I got a sweep on this, people.
Marc:And I'm really not sure.
Marc:I don't know when it's going to air.
Marc:And I don't know what's going to happen after it does.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:I'll keep you posted.
Marc:And I'm sorry if I left you in the dark about it.
Marc:I should have just kept it to myself until, you know, we had all our ducks in a row.
Marc:But I got giddy.
Marc:And I spilled the beans.
Marc:I'm in New York still.
Marc:Just across the way, one of the charming things about New York, there is a group of men at work doing what inspired the show Stomp.
Marc:Unfortunately, this particular version of that unscripted Stomp begins at about 7 in the morning.
Marc:There's a lot of hammers.
Marc:None are in rhythm.
Marc:There seems to be no real context artistically, though they are building a structure.
Marc:So that's the context.
Marc:It's got nothing to do with pleasing me as an audience member, and quite honestly, it's disrupting my sleep and making me unhappy.
Marc:But given that it's not a performance piece, there's nothing I can really do to complain about it, nor can I move.
Marc:I could ask for another room, but this is New York, and this is what you have to put up with even at the nice places.
Marc:How many panes of glass can you use?
Marc:I think the most important thing that's happened to me this trip, aside from talking to Lorne Michaels
Marc:was probably having a realization about my anger.
Marc:First night here, there was some racket going on.
Marc:We had been up a long bit of time.
Marc:We'd been up traveling from four in the morning from North Carolina and got here and had to do a couple of things and wanted to nap.
Marc:This is the first room that I was given here at the hotel.
Marc:And the the room adjacent, I don't know what was going on, but the door was slamming, I would say, on a 20 to 30 second interval.
Marc:I'd laid down to rest.
Marc:I closed my eyes and this door just started fucking slamming every minute or two, like 12, 15 times.
Marc:Until I got up, I was in my boxers.
Marc:I got up in that sort of like in, you know, the action you take when you've been festering for about 15, 20 minutes where it's almost involuntary, where your body just becomes the movement of a full body fist moving towards the door.
Marc:I pop open the door.
Marc:I was in my boxers.
Marc:I vaguely heard Sarah wake up as well and say, your penis, because I think that maybe she was concerned that I was not paying attention to whether it was out or in.
Marc:I was not planning on going into the hall, but I opened the door and I was right in front of me was a bellman and the other door was open.
Marc:And I looked in the room and I could see just vaguely a woman doing something up to things.
Marc:There's a lot of busyness is what I heard.
Marc:And I said, hey, can you take it easy with the door, please?
Marc:And then the bellman looked at me and said, sorry.
Marc:And I slammed my door.
Marc:And I then I looked down and I did not notice that my penis was out.
Marc:So then I laid down and I went into a fantasy.
Marc:I don't have as many revenge fantasies as I used to.
Marc:It used to be a fairly favorite pastime of mine that happened without much provocation.
Marc:I would sort of go through my mind and think, who could I imagine in a situation where they got theirs?
Marc:Yeah, where I teach them a lesson.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Some of those things, you know, I was surprisingly adept at martial arts.
Marc:Occasionally I'd be armed, but would never use it, you know, just in a threatening way.
Marc:I apologize for even thinking that, but it might be true.
Marc:Occasionally I would watch them or set up a situation where they would be gloriously hoisted onto their own petard.
Marc:I was active, man.
Marc:I was active with the revenge fantasies because it made me feel better.
Marc:But then they all went away.
Marc:It just was not something my brain did anymore until I was laying in bed after I'd said, could you please take it easy with the door?
Marc:And the fucking door slammed even harder.
Marc:So then this is what went through my head.
Marc:All right, that was a spiteful slam of the door in response to my completely polite yet slightly aggravated request that they stop that shit.
Marc:And then I pictured, all right, there's a woman in there, but that was definitely a big dude, a bro of a certain size, slamming that door to show me that he didn't give a fuck what I had to say.
Marc:So in my mind, I fucking put my pants on.
Marc:No reason to start shit in your boxers if you're going to follow through with that shit because...
Marc:If something happens, especially to you, and you go down, you're going to be in your boxers, and you're not going to have any control of the penis being in or out if you're out.
Marc:Dig?
Marc:So in my mind, I fucking pound on the door, a large bro.
Marc:muscular, younger than me, with a lot of fucking attitude.
Marc:I'm not going to say Italian, but hints of that maybe.
Marc:Doesn't matter.
Marc:Just trying to paint a picture.
Marc:I think just a general bro, non-nationality specific bro.
Marc:And I'm like, dude, what's the fucking problem?
Marc:And he's like, yeah, what is your fucking problem?
Marc:And I said, well, what's with the fucking door?
Marc:And he goes, you got a fucking problem.
Marc:And he pushes me.
Marc:And then I waited out because in that moment in the fantasy, I realized that we're grown ass men.
Marc:And if he hits me, there's legal repercussions and
Marc:So this is the weird turn the fantasy took my revenge fantasy where I kick some guy's ass is that he pushes me.
Marc:I said, fuck you.
Marc:You know, this is bullshit.
Marc:You can't fucking slam a door.
Marc:You got to have respect for other people.
Marc:And then I just stand there.
Marc:I stand him off and he fucking pops me in the face right in the nose.
Marc:This is in the fantasy.
Marc:I get hit in the face hard and my nose is bleeding and I get some satisfaction out of this because I look at him and go, I hope you have some fucking money saved up because you're going to pay for this in court.
Marc:And then I sued him for a physical assault.
Marc:a grown man and i i i think in the in the settlement i made about 250 000 which i didn't even want wasn't the money it was the principle this fucker can't just go hitting me or hitting people out in the world right and then like you know then he learns his lesson that's a long way to go and and to be honest with you a little cowardly and i was ashamed of myself but
Marc:on the other the alternative fantasy was he goes yeah I got a lot of fucking money I got so much money and then he just throws a few hundred on the floor there's some money and I stand there with a bloody nose I'm like that's not enough so all this time I'm holding my bloody nose and in my mind I'm victorious you know it's like I'm gonna fucking I'll show you I'm gonna kick your ass in a few months and then for as long as it takes after that to sell this with legal fees and maybe an out of court thing like
Marc:It was so protracted, this revenge fantasy, and so seemingly somewhat cowardly that it was at that moment that I realized, like, you know, maybe I've outgrown this anger.
Marc:You know, clearly my revenge fantasies don't have the teeth they used to.
Marc:And if I'm really fantasizing about not only getting in an altercation, but getting a bloody nose and then, you know, taking the time to, you know, anywhere from three months to a number of years to win a lawsuit against a fucking ape man for a physical assault, that maybe it's time to just process the anger differently.
Marc:And by the way, I forgot to mention that that what was going on, it was a bride next door who was getting married that night.
Marc:So there was a lot of in and out, I imagine, with bridesmaids and mothers and people tending to the bride, making sure everything, you know, dresses and whatnot, hair, shoes, support and all that stuff.
Marc:So what I did do, as opposed to get hit by a non-existent groom who was going to defend his bride-to-be from the irritating, neurotic, angry old Jew next door.
Marc:Middle-aged Jew.
Marc:Let's go middle-aged Jew.
Marc:What I did instead was I called down and I said, look, you got to get me out of here.
Marc:You got to get me out of here, please.
Marc:And they moved us.
Marc:They moved us to another room.
Marc:And I felt good because I felt bad about the initial bit of anger I had.
Marc:Though I hope that if the bride did see me, that the boxers were hilarious and that she was like, oh, what's that guy's problem?
Marc:And as we were changing rooms, we saw the mother of the bride in the hallway eating a bagel and cream cheese, holding a plate.
Marc:And she said...
Marc:Sorry, it's a big wedding tonight.
Marc:I'm like, well, I'm going to another room and I want you to have a good time.
Marc:And she said, oh, we'll have a good time.
Marc:And it was exactly that attitude that I knew had to be avoided.
Marc:The persistence of, you know, it's her day and no one's going to fuck with it.
Marc:I didn't want to conflict with that because, frankly, even at my most empathetic in that moment, I didn't give a fuck about her day.
Marc:And I did the right thing and I got out of it.
Marc:And I hope she had a great, great wedding.
Okay.
Marc:So now Dan Pashman, yes, he's been on the show before.
Marc:You may have heard him here, or maybe you go all the way back to when, as I said, we were on Air America, or maybe you've listened to the Sporkful.
Marc:He was out in L.A., and he's not there very often.
Marc:I asked him to come over to the garage so we could argue about some things, some food and whatever, because that's what he does with me.
Marc:That's what we do, me and Pashman.
Marc:And I think this may be the beginning of a short series where I argue with old friends over bullshit.
Marc:Would that be okay?
Marc:So I bring you now from the Sporkful and from the Cooking Channel web series, You're Eating It Wrong.
Marc:This is me and Dan Pashman.
Marc:You're not a car guy.
Marc:What kind of car do you drive, Dan Pashman?
Guest:We have a Honda CR-V.
Marc:So you have a CR-V?
Guest:It's a small SUV.
Marc:For your family?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You have how many children?
Marc:Two kids.
Marc:You had two.
Marc:Are you done?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:How old are they?
Marc:Two and four and a half.
Marc:So you need that.
Marc:You need to have that size car.
Guest:You need the space, yeah.
Guest:And anyway, it was a gift from my in-laws.
Guest:When they got a new car, they give us their old one.
Guest:So you're like never out of college.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like, what else do you need?
Marc:All right, so what have you been doing?
Marc:I mean, the last time I talked to you, what did we cover?
Guest:We talked about my book a little bit, and we talked about- What is the book, The Sporkful?
Marc:How's that book selling?
Guest:It sold pretty well.
Guest:It's over?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, it's still there.
Guest:You can go buy it.
Guest:But now I'm focusing mostly on my podcast.
Marc:The Sporkful?
Guest:Yeah, The Sporkful podcast.
Marc:What's the tagline to it?
Guest:We say it's not for foodies, it's for eaters.
Marc:Yeah, that's fucking clever.
Marc:you guys were pretty happy when he came up with that yeah that's pretty good people identify with it yeah but you're like was that a brain brainstorming session well it's funny where you was it the final hour before you had to post the first episode 4 30 in the morning you're sweating you got a beard right
Guest:What are we going to do?
Guest:What are we going to say?
Guest:How do we explain it?
Guest:It's funny because I came up with like five catchphrases and that was not one of them.
Guest:And it actually like the very first couple episodes of The Sporkful.
Guest:No catchphrase?
Guest:The catchphrase, the original catchphrase of the first couple episodes was where sacred cows get grilled.
Guest:Ah, yeah.
Guest:Which I actually liked more, but like very early on.
Marc:But to me, that's like an NPR nuance.
Marc:You think so?
Marc:It's just too clever.
Marc:Like, you know, it's not for foodies, it's for eaters.
Marc:That's a working class, the proletariat.
Marc:Yeah, you're right.
Marc:Yeah, maybe you keep the podcast at and for your NPR show, you add the secret cow, it gets grilled.
Guest:But then the NPR vegetarians would be after me.
Marc:well you're never gonna please those people yeah but uh okay so we talked about the sport we talked about the book we talked about but we what do we like we talked about wings we talked a lot about oh yeah you were wrong on that
Guest:Well, well.
Marc:No, I've been, no.
Marc:I mean, I've been, time and history is on my side on that.
Guest:History?
Guest:What history?
Marc:The history of wings.
Marc:Of how to prepare them properly.
Guest:But now that I'm here, I want to, we don't need to keep talking about wings, Mark.
Marc:No, no, it's over.
Marc:I cajoled you into having coffee and you looked at my device.
Guest:Yeah, I want to consult here.
Marc:Is that a pour over?
Guest:Not really.
Guest:Before I start arguing with you and telling you the new ways in which you're wrong.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I've been using an AeroPress on your recommendation for about five years.
Marc:But to me, for me, the reason the AeroPress, it's fine.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:People love it.
Marc:But it's sort of an ordeal.
Marc:And if you're a fucking coffee addict, sometimes I'll do a triple espresso and make a pot of coffee and drink that fucking pot of coffee.
Marc:So every time I've got to do an AeroPress, I've got to go through the whole thing with the little circles?
Marc:I can't fucking...
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, you get the whole pot, right.
Guest:Right, I'm not saying it's not a great thing, but it's not for addicts.
Guest:I love how there's a new recurring theme in your show about sort of like bargain hunting and shopping.
Guest:Is there?
Guest:I love how air travel has become a recurring theme in recent episodes of WTF.
Guest:Oh, with the president.
Guest:You talked about Vince Gilligan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was another guy that you talked about.
Guest:I did?
Guest:What airline do you fly?
Guest:Like when it had nothing to do with whatever you were talking about.
Guest:I think there should be a spinoff WTF podcast, just like Mark's deal of the week.
Marc:And what's the fucking thing is, is that people like, like I, like I fucking hell, I hate Delta, but then there's people that are like, no, I love Delta.
Marc:It's all I fly.
Marc:And I'm like, what's wrong with you?
Marc:But it's the same with cell phone providers.
Marc:I mean, like, after a certain point, you develop a loyalty to them for whatever reason.
Marc:You get enough perks to where you can fly comfortably, hopefully, or at least have the shot at that.
Marc:I mean, all these airlines have shitty planes.
Marc:It's really how they put lipstick on their pig of a plane.
Marc:You know, you don't know how old those fucking planes are.
Marc:You know when you're in a new one and you're like, this should be good.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But sometimes you get on those planes, you can actually see how many times it's had a paint job by the door.
Marc:And you're like, what?
Marc:Is this, like, from 1960 at this point?
Marc:Right.
Marc:But yeah, it's a loyalty thing.
Marc:For some reason, you know, I'm very loyal to shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Why?
Marc:What do you fly?
Guest:I usually go whatever's cheapest.
Marc:See, that's a bad move.
Guest:Yeah, but I mean, I am partial to JetBlue and Virgin America.
Marc:Yeah, but JetBlue, that's sort of over, isn't it?
Marc:I mean, the blue chips and the no class.
Guest:I mean, you get free Wi-Fi.
Guest:You do?
Guest:You get free Wi-Fi.
Guest:You get nice big screens that you can watch.
Guest:Are they that big?
Guest:They're a pretty good size.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean...
Marc:I don't know, it felt to me that JetBlue, at some point, I was at a JetBlue terminal, I think it was at LaGuardia, and I'm like, this is over.
Marc:Because it just felt like a fucking bus station.
Guest:Yeah, but don't they all feel like that?
Guest:No.
Guest:Which ones do you like better?
Marc:Well, I don't fly, I'm not gonna fly Spirit Air, or Jazz, or whatever the fuck those are.
Marc:I don't even know what's going on over there.
Marc:You walk by those things, and it's sort of like, is there no luggage requirement?
Marc:It looks like this person's moving onto the plane.
Marc:So...
Marc:But but no, I guess like Southwest, you would think.
Marc:But oddly, Southwest, their system of groupings, very orderly.
Marc:And people are like, it's actually an interesting way to to almost be democratic in a way.
Marc:You're like on this line.
Marc:They're like, what are you?
Marc:I'm like, I'm 37.
Marc:Like, OK, I'm 38.
Marc:I'm behind you.
Marc:I'm like.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:That was nice.
Marc:We worked that out as people.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I've had no bad experience with Southwest for flying out of Burbank.
Marc:I just haven't flown JetBlue in a while.
Marc:Virgin's pretty good aside from the nightclub vibe.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah, I agree.
Marc:The music in the bathroom.
Guest:A little much.
Guest:The lighting.
Guest:The lighting, yeah, too much.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I like the system where you just order things on your screen.
Marc:They're the only ones that do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I like that.
Guest:That is good.
Marc:You just kind of push or poke around and then someone comes.
Marc:But whatever.
Marc:So you fly whatever.
Guest:I just think...
Guest:I think that this is a whole spinoff new category for you.
Guest:It's a new vertical in the Marin Empire.
Marc:I think it's only relative to the fact that I've been traveling a shitload in the last four months.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So the coffee, how's that coffee?
Guest:It is very good.
Guest:You like it?
Guest:I do like it.
Guest:I want to ask you a question about the president's coffee, which is still on display here.
Marc:It was tea.
Marc:It was tea.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:So did he bring it in himself?
Guest:No.
Marc:There's a woman who worked with the motorcade, I guess the White House caterers or chefs or whoever, food department.
Marc:I don't know what they're called.
Marc:Travels with him and brings it in before he gets in.
Guest:So he has an advanced team that delivers his food for him.
Marc:Well, it was one woman, but yeah, there's a lot of people here.
Guest:And she came and she set up his tea.
Marc:And a water.
Guest:In a paper cup with a presidential seal and a water and a napkin.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, see, what's interesting to me is I bet part of that is a security thing.
Marc:Probably.
Marc:It's like a food taster.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They don't want you to give him coffee, and God knows what could be in it.
Marc:No, they don't even want him to go in the house, really.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Or the bathroom, even.
Guest:See, that's why I can't be president, is because I'd always have to go to the bathroom, and you can't.
Marc:Oh, you think that's the only reason?
Marc:Thank God we know.
Marc:Because, yeah.
Marc:That's what's holding me back.
Marc:I knew this would be a tough decision for you to make.
Guest:i was really on the fence yeah you're at home just driving your wife crazy like should i run yeah i mean there was at least maybe one tweet yeah asking me so yeah all right um was there tea left yeah there was and did you drink it no you didn't drink the president's tea i didn't i didn't even think to do that's like the closest thing to like sleeping in his bed i touched him
Marc:He's right there.
Marc:You're sitting, your ass is on his seat.
Guest:Well, that's exciting.
Guest:That is exciting for me.
Guest:But drinking- I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I would have drank his tea.
Marc:Like everyone sees that cup there with his DNAs on it.
Marc:I'm like, what are you going to do with that?
Marc:I don't know why all people's brains work.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I just feel like to drink, to like, I mean, like that's-
Marc:I talked to him for an hour.
Marc:Look, that's very special.
Marc:Do you feel like we need to swap spit?
Marc:I would drink it out of the hole that he drank it out of, and I could say, what, that me and the president?
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:What am I going to drink his tea for?
Marc:It's probably just tea.
Guest:So you just poured it out?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I just wanted the cup.
Marc:Should I have a little vial next to it, a little with the tea in it?
Marc:That was what was in it.
Marc:That would be fucking weird.
Marc:It's already weird that I have a dumbed glass cup.
Guest:It's actually brilliant.
Guest:It's not weird at all.
Guest:I'm definitely going to take a picture of it.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So with the coffee thing, so you got the AeroPress going, but you like this coffee, so there's an argument there.
Marc:This is not pour over.
Marc:Maybe it's pour over, but there's a place in New York that does this cone where...
Marc:You have the cone, and then you put the grounds in it, and you weigh it out properly, and then you put the water, and you leave it in there for four minutes, and then it releases on top of a glass.
Guest:I have no patience for those.
Marc:But you can sit there with that AeroPress, which is like loading a syringe.
Guest:I don't really like the AeroPress.
Guest:Honestly, I'm kind of lazy with my home coffee game.
Guest:But you don't use pods.
Guest:Those places that are so pretentious.
Guest:You don't use pods.
Guest:I mean, you parried it.
Guest:It pour over.
Guest:Yeah, now I'm doing it at home.
Guest:On your IFC show.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And you go to these places, all the guys around that kind of look like the rejected members of Mumford & Sons or something.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I can't.
Marc:Well, the thing is, the weird thing is, if you get a good pull and it's a good shot, and it's at a high-end place, there is a variation to it.
Marc:But ultimately, it's just what grade a drug you want to use and what kind of dealers do you want to deal with.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like if I go to New York, the first fucking thing I do when I get off the plane is go to that Dunkin' Donuts right there.
Marc:I'll go to the fucking Dunkin' Donuts because I'm like, this stuff is garbage, but it's like fucking crack.
Marc:And I'll drink it because it's just like, it's in my heart.
Marc:It's in my mind.
Marc:Like I'm like, I got to get a Dunkin' Donuts coffee.
Marc:Then I'll drink the, I drink way too much coffee still.
Marc:Don't you remember on Air America, I used to load up on that Dunkin' Donuts.
Marc:Sometimes you'd get a carton of it.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:That was always, it was always kind of, there was a bell curve with your mental state and the show.
Guest:I used to get M&Ms.
Marc:I used to have to like, I would sugar and caffeinate myself into mania.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:To get started.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't even know what that shit sounds like.
Marc:That probably sounds a little like I am now because I'm a little like that now.
Guest:But it's a higher register.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Your voice is in a higher register.
Marc:Why is it completely fueled by panic and a lack of understanding of what I was talking about?
Yeah.
Guest:I was going to tell you, I mean, I was at your marination show in Huntington, which was a great show.
Guest:We did all right.
Guest:I thought you did a great job.
Guest:Thanks, buddy.
Guest:I really enjoyed it.
Guest:I loved the new material.
Guest:I did have to take issue with your statement on stage that cocoa pebbles are better than fruity pebbles.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How is that?
Guest:What?
Guest:Well, like Cocoa Pebbles, like there's 100 chocolate cereals.
Guest:Cocoa Pebbles and Cocoa Krispies are almost identical.
Marc:Right, but they're different than Cocoa Puffs.
Guest:Oh, very different, yes.
Guest:That's a whole other category.
Guest:There's a lot of chocolatey cereals.
Guest:There are a few fruity cereals, but I feel like Fruity Pebbles are unique.
Marc:Yeah, but it doesn't matter.
Marc:For me, it was like it didn't make sense.
Marc:Those colors weren't normal.
Marc:Even if the Cocoa Pebbles are food colored, I didn't pay that much attention to that when I was a kid, but it seemed like there was something organic about the idea of chocolate being brown and the texture of them.
Marc:The texture of Coco Poles, they weren't like Rice Krispies.
Marc:They were a little flatter and they had a little glaze to them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they were chocolatey.
Marc:And then the Fruity Pebbles were like, there was that horrible yellow and like a pink and maybe what a blue.
Marc:Like, I don't even remember what the colors were, but there's nothing natural about it.
Marc:It looks weird.
Marc:The milk is just pink when you get done with it.
Marc:And the fruitiness of it, texturally, they were the same, but I was not on board for the colors.
Marc:I did not...
Marc:I didn't like it.
Marc:But, you know, some cereals that I'd never got when I was a kid because they were unruly to me in the bowl.
Marc:Like what?
Marc:Sugar pops, the corn kernel cereals.
Marc:They were a little like, you know, they didn't really change texture at all with the milk.
Marc:And they were just sort of like they'd float in the milk differently.
Guest:So you like that transformation to take place in the bowl?
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:Sometimes.
Marc:I mean, I don't always like it.
Marc:Yeah, but actually I do.
Marc:I'll even like bran flakes.
Marc:Like if raisin bran gets mushy, I'm good.
Marc:I'm good with it.
Marc:Frosted flakes, mushy frosted flakes, I'm okay with that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not hung up on the crispiness of it.
Marc:Remember Buckwheat, what were they called?
Marc:Golden Grahams.
Guest:Oh, yeah, those are good.
Marc:Those were good.
Marc:Those were almost like this crossover adulthood cereal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like Golden Grahams, it felt a little more sophisticated than the fruity cereals.
Marc:Lucky Charms.
Marc:My brother ate Lucky Charms, he ate Fruity Pebbles, and both of those were bullshit to me.
Marc:Captain Crunch, Quisp, no good.
Marc:Quisp?
Marc:Quisp.
Guest:I never heard of that.
Marc:With the little space guy on it.
Marc:You never heard of Quake and Quisp?
Guest:I don't think so.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Why?
Marc:Well, what's your point?
Marc:You're going to defend Fruity Pebbles on what grounds?
Guest:Well, I'll grant you that the issue of the color is sort of a matter of taste.
Guest:Like if you just don't like things that look like they're artificially colored, you know, that's valid.
Guest:I just love, I happen to love Fruity Pebbles.
Guest:I think that's a great cereal.
Guest:What?
Guest:I love the pebble shape.
Guest:I like cereals that turn soggy quickly.
Marc:I just realized this is what they did to me and my brother, Quisp and Quake.
Marc:They pitted us against each other.
Marc:Pebbles did and Quisp and Quake.
Marc:Like Quisp had the little goofy space dude with the propeller head and Quake was like a giant He-Man guy.
Guest:So you think cereal, it had a big influence on your relationship with your brother?
Marc:Well, no, it just gave you choices and you had to be different.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Like he's gonna do that thing.
Marc:And I don't think he fared any better for having Quisp and Fruity Pebbles.
Marc:I don't know if those were the right decisions to make.
Guest:How's he doing?
Marc:He's all right.
Marc:Whatever he's going through, though, we're going to have to hang it on the cereal.
Marc:Why?
Marc:What are your kids eating?
Marc:What are you making them eat?
Marc:Muesli?
Guest:No, I mean, my wife gives them Lucky Charms, which drives me crazy because I think it's so nasty.
Guest:The marshmallows and the cereal, they're awful marshmallows.
Guest:It's full of chemicals and food coloring and all that.
Guest:I don't give my kids fruity pebbles now.
Guest:To me, surface area to volume ratio is a huge issue in cereals.
Marc:Yeah, what does that fucking mean?
Guest:Do you remember that from science class?
Marc:Did you forget who you're talking to?
Marc:Do I remember science class?
Guest:I'll say it again slower.
Marc:No, not slower.
Marc:Actually, illustrate it for me.
Guest:So you have the surface area, which is the amount of surface that anything has.
Guest:Of the cereal.
Guest:Right, okay, yeah.
Guest:Every little individual piece.
Guest:Yeah, I get it.
Guest:So for instance, like a ball...
Marc:You don't have to give me a lesson.
Guest:Okay, so there's a ratio called surface area to volume ratio.
Marc:Right.
Guest:The ratio of how much area is exposed to air in relation to the total volume.
Marc:Okay, so it's a density thing in a way.
Guest:Right, roughly.
Guest:And so, I mean, scientists would probably say that's not the right word, but yes, we'll go with it.
Marc:So you're saying that some things are- The higher- The higher the surface area.
Guest:In relation to volume.
Guest:So the more surface area exposed in relation to volume, the faster the cereal will absorb milk.
Guest:And the quicker it will become soggy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And so- You're in a hurry?
Marc:I guess it's in the morning.
Guest:You're in the morning.
Guest:But you and I are kind of on the same page.
Guest:We like the cereals that- Okay.
Marc:Break down a little bit.
Guest:Break down a little bit.
Guest:Get soft.
Guest:Have you ever tried-
Guest:Putting the cereal in, put the milk in, let it sit, let it get a little soggy.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Then add more of the same cereal so that you have two different textures of the same cereal.
Marc:Do you have a job?
Ha ha ha!
Guest:This is my job.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:You understand it's a miracle.
Marc:I'm actually at work right now, Mark.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, like now what I eat cereal-wise, I do brand buds because I'm old, which they're the best.
Marc:I think they are the most powerful brand cereal because the buds actually have psyllium in them, so it'll really fucking do the job.
Marc:Then I have Trader Joe's brand flakes, which I'll use with fruit.
Marc:Brand buds is just sort of like medicine.
Marc:You're like, I'm going to do these now.
Right.
Marc:But the brand flakes, you can use them as flakes.
Marc:And then for the treat cereal, puffins.
Marc:Now, Barbara's puffins are sort of like a Captain Crunch style.
Marc:They're pillows, I guess they would call them.
Marc:They're pillows.
Marc:But they need to sit.
Guest:They really need to get soft.
Guest:Do you get regular puffins or do you get peanut butter puffins?
Marc:No, regular.
Marc:Peanut butter ones are weird.
Marc:They don't have the same consistency.
Marc:They're bigger and they're more closer to a Captain Crunch vibe.
Marc:They're okay.
Marc:And then there's cinnamon ones, too.
Marc:And every time I buy those by accident, I'm pissed.
Marc:no i like regular ones and uh but i i have not perhaps i put more puffins in after the other ones were soggy but i don't think it was an intention to mix up the textures i wouldn't do it with puffins because those already take a long time to turn soggy so if you're gonna put them both like you're gonna wait a while and then like you don't want puffins right out of the out of the box into the milk because they're gonna be too hard right but i imagine some people like that's the only way to eat them like this is a preference point yeah and you're gonna call them wrong
Guest:I suppose you're right.
Marc:Do you use regular milk, almond milk, soy milk, vanilla almond milk, coconut milk?
Guest:I use whole milk, regular whole milk.
Marc:Whole milk, like vitamin D milk, no percentages?
Guest:That's right.
Marc:What do you want to die?
Marc:It's like pouring fat on your cereal.
Marc:You don't have a problem with that?
Marc:Why do you do that for the kids, for their bones?
Guest:Yeah, something like that.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:See, for me, it's like what I do is I take puffins and then put a little pure stevia on top, just a little, and then I put unsweetened vanilla almond milk on it.
Marc:That's my process.
Guest:So you sweetened the almond milk with stevia?
Marc:Kinda.
Marc:I put it on the cereal a very little bit.
Guest:Why not just get sweetened almond milk?
Marc:Because sometimes it's not sweetened with stevia.
Marc:I don't want sugar in my almond milk.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's just the way I work it.
Marc:And then with stevia, you can make it really fucking sweet sometimes.
Guest:And that has like no calories?
Marc:No.
Marc:And it's a mystery.
Marc:It's like a root.
Marc:It's from a root.
Marc:I think it's processed like cocaine.
Marc:Because the good stuff, the pure stuff, is like just sort of China white.
Marc:But then I recently got a stevia that was like Mexican brown heroin.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because it was a brown color and didn't taste as good and had sort of a texture to it.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So I imagine that's the intermediary between the two.
Guest:You know, that stuff got smuggled in then.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Someone put Stevia right in their butt.
Marc:But it's probably manufactured here, but that doesn't mean some hippies aren't traveling with it in their butt.
Marc:Just to make it really sort of like down to earth.
Marc:I like the processed.
Marc:I like the China white stevia over the Mexican brown stevia.
Guest:What about fruit in your cereal?
Marc:Yeah, I'll do fruit.
Marc:No strawberries.
Marc:I'm anti-strawberry.
Marc:Don't trust the size of them.
Marc:Like, you know, when you see a strawberry that's grown in the wild and it's sort of small and nice and delicate and powerful and it has good flavor.
Marc:And then you see the ones that come in those plastic containers that are huge.
Marc:Yeah, it's crazy.
Marc:Well, how the fuck does that happen?
Marc:The same way they fucked up tomatoes, I think they're doing it to strawberries.
Marc:I like blueberries, sometimes blackberries if they're sweet.
Marc:Banana I'll do occasionally, but that's sort of a chore, and the banana's got to be perfect.
Marc:It can't be any slightly unripened banana.
Marc:I'll just go nuts and throw it.
Guest:this is why i have a job mark yeah well i'm helping you you are but do you see like you know one of my favorite reactions that i get to this workful podcast is when people say i never knew i had such strong opinions about that right well you have strong opinions sure well you get into a groove you know i haven't tried to like where do you stand on the mueslis and the oatmeals because i'll do that occasionally but it's not regular you can't eat oatmeal in the heat because it's just like you sweat i mean i i like um you're talking like hot muesli
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Musically, I don't quite understand, because you get it in a traditional way.
Marc:It's usually mixed with yogurt.
Marc:It's usually mixed in... It's like granola.
Marc:A clotted cream or something.
Marc:You get it, and it's a density to it.
Marc:It's not just put milk over it.
Guest:I...
Guest:I feel like, well, I love to combine.
Guest:I almost never just have a bowl of one kind of cereal.
Guest:You're a cereal mixer?
Guest:I got a couple of cereals, and then I like sort of an X factor.
Guest:I love to sprinkle some grape nuts on top or a muesli or something like that.
Marc:I still like grape nuts.
Marc:No more.
Marc:I don't do them anymore.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Why not?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Just stop doing it.
Marc:Because I do the Bram Buds because I think they're effective.
Marc:If I want to mix cereals, usually what I'll be doing is I'll get Bram Flakes and Bram Buds.
Marc:If I've been on the road for a week and I've been eating shitty, I'm like, that's my cleanse.
Marc:That's my cleanse.
Marc:I'll do a whole day of that.
Marc:It's called the cereal cleanse.
Guest:This is another spinoff to go with the travel show.
Guest:Basically, it's called Mark Gets Old.
Marc:Yeah, that's happening naturally.
Marc:That's all being integrated.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:There's no reason for a spinoff.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:That's the dynamic, the Marin-Pashman dynamic.
Marc:All right?
Marc:So what happens now?
Marc:I'll tell you.
Marc:You know what time it is?
Marc:It's blues legend.
Marc:John Mayall.
Marc:One of the first albums I remember sort of having was John Mayall.
Marc:Looking Back, I believe was the title of that record.
Marc:It had a picture of him with a six gun hanging onto a train in a cowboy outfit.
Marc:And on that record, there was a song called Mr. James on there, which turned me on to Elmore James, which changed my life.
Marc:John Mayall changed my life.
Marc:And I had inherited the record from my aunt and uncle's collection.
Marc:But as I grew older and I looked more into John Mayall, I've got several Blues Breakers records.
Marc:And he, a lot of people stopped by, man.
Marc:a lot of people were in that band for a certain amount of time and there was some pretty monumental guitar players bass players drummers but anyways I was thrilled to have the opportunity to talk to him so this is me and John Mayall he's got a new record out right now he puts out a lot of records still folks if you like the blues his new album is find a way to care and that's out now so this is me and John Mayall
Marc:John Mayall, that's you.
Marc:That's me, yes.
Marc:I was pretty excited to have you come in because I think some of your records changed my life.
Marc:Wow, what a responsibility I have.
Marc:Yeah, it's a big responsibility.
Marc:Well, it's not a bad responsibility, but I think when I was a kid, I inherited some collection of records, and Looking Back was in it.
Marc:Your record, Looking Back.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So, you know, when I heard the song, Mr. James, I didn't know anything about the blues, really.
Marc:And I thought, well, who the hell is Mr. James?
Marc:So then I had to go figure out Elmore James.
Marc:And it sort of started this whole process with me of learning about the blues and getting involved with the blues in terms of listening and stuff.
Marc:So thank you for that.
Guest:That's amazing.
Guest:It was a story.
Guest:When did you start playing?
Guest:Well, I started playing when I was about 10 or 11, you know, because my father had, he was a semi-professional guitar player, so he did have guitars around the house.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:But he also, I mean, the action was so high, I couldn't do anything about that, but...
Guest:He had ukulele, and I started on the ukulele with four strings there.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So listening to records by the Mills Brothers and several people.
Guest:So my grounding started there, I suppose.
Guest:And then as soon as I discovered Boogie Woogie Piano, which my father wasn't interested in at all, I veered off from his stuff.
Marc:Who was that, Fats Waller or Pine Top?
Marc:Who did you listen to?
Guest:Yeah, it was Albert Ammons, Pete Johnson, Meadlux Lewis was the instigators of that.
Guest:And then, you know, one thing led to another, to Jimmy Yancey.
Guest:You know, the thing is about music, once you find a starting point of somebody you like, and then you go exploring who was their influences and who were their contemporaries and things like that, and you begin your voyage of discovery.
Marc:That's what happened with me and you.
Marc:That's exactly what I had with Looking Back.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Now, did your dad play out?
Marc:Did he have a combo or did he have a band?
Marc:Who?
Marc:Your father?
Guest:No.
Guest:He played occasional dances.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:In what part of England did you grow up in?
Guest:Well, near Manchester, northern England.
Marc:And was there live music around that you would go to when you were younger?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:When I was probably 17 or 18, the traditional jazz was the thing that most bands were playing.
Guest:So I used to go to the Saturday nights when the Saints jazz band were playing.
Guest:That was a Manchester band.
Guest:So they were a great Dixieland band, but the pianist in there was a boogie-woogie enthusiast.
Guest:So he and I got to talking, and he introduced me to several people who were the more obscure players.
Marc:So you had that sit-down with the piano player?
Guest:Yeah, I actually went to his house, which was a very big deal.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he was like a hero, right?
Guest:And he had this 78 with a wonderful label I'd never seen before.
Guest:And the artist was Cripple Clarence Lofton, which I thought the name alone was.
Guest:It was great, right?
Guest:It was great.
Guest:Like, I want to know what that guy's up to.
Guest:But, you know, another incredible player.
Marc:And how old were you when that happened?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's before I went in the army.
Guest:In your teens?
Marc:Yeah, late teens.
Marc:So that's a big deal when you're a kid and that musician you respect has you over and he shows you the records.
Guest:Yeah, he had an American record.
Marc:Well, that's the weird thing, because I've talked to, who have I talked to in here?
Marc:I recently talked to Richard Thompson, and I talked to Lemmy from Motorhead.
Marc:I've talked to a few British musicians, but there was, not unlike punk rock in the 70s and 80s here, American records were sort of like, wow, where'd you get it?
Marc:You got one of those.
Marc:It was hard to get them, huh?
Guest:Well, people talk about that all the time, but they kind of overlook the fact that the British record companies did have quite a large selection, much larger than people would think.
Guest:But you had to know what you were looking for.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But there was Josh White, Lead Belly, Blind Lemon Jefferson.
Guest:All these things were out on 78s on British labels.
Marc:So they were there.
Marc:You just had a dig for them.
Guest:They were there, yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, the people that you mainly talk to all seem to be 10 years younger than I am.
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:They're starting later, you know.
Guest:And, you know, by the time they came along seeking these things out, I already had, you know, gone through all that.
Marc:Well, it's sort of interesting because it wasn't necessarily popular music, so you really had to sort of find your way.
Marc:I have to assume that when you were 16 or 17, Blind Lemon Jefferson was not like, everybody wasn't going, you've got to get the new Blind Lemon Jefferson release.
Guest:No, absolutely not, no.
Guest:But people went their own way and built up their own record collections, but it wasn't something that was...
Guest:All that shared, you know, wasn't a shared experience so much as somebody who was a fanatic about a certain style of music.
Marc:Like a secret society.
Marc:Like if it was shared, there was a couple of other fanatics where you'd sit around going like, oh, my God, listen to that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you know, I played my record collection to friends who anybody was interested in it, you know.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:So you went into the Army?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For how long?
Guest:Three years.
Guest:And what was going on?
Guest:Anything?
Guest:Well, when I went to Korea.
Guest:Oh, you did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Fortunately, the day I got my posting to Korea, it was the day when they started the armistice.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:So that was very good.
Marc:You dodged a bullet literally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was two months to get over there on the boat.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So by the time I got there, it was well settled down into nothing going on.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Thank God transportation wasn't as effective as it is today.
Guest:It was great, really.
Guest:To be on the boat?
Guest:Well, the boat was all right.
Guest:I got myself out of a lot of drill by pointing myself out as a musician.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:So I had a guitar, and I played in the ship's band, which got me out of the... Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, the band was just me on guitar and a very bristly Scotsman playing accordion, and he was the boss.
Guest:And I can't remember, I think there was probably one other person maybe playing drums, I don't know.
Guest:So what kind of, were you playing polka music?
Guest:No, it was horrible.
Guest:But it got you through.
Guest:Yeah, that's right.
Guest:It was a better deal than being stuck downstairs and doing drills.
Marc:Yeah, so you play harp and you play guitar and you play keyboards and piano and maybe a little bass, no bass.
Guest:No, not bass, because you didn't really have the strong fingers for that, and you'd get blisters very easily.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, it's hard to hold those down.
Marc:But when did you pick up, you started on guitar, and then you started getting into piano?
Guest:Yeah, the piano, when I went to junior art school when I was 14, they had a piano there, which I was able to make a start on.
Marc:Can you read music?
Marc:No.
Marc:It's weird, I can't either.
Marc:You don't need to, I guess.
Marc:You just got to feel for it.
Guest:Yeah, you know, I just plotted around getting the left-hand boogie-woogie thing going, and then eventually was able to put the right-hand to it.
Guest:Takes a while, huh?
Guest:To work, it did, yeah.
Guest:Especially if you don't have a piano.
Marc:The new record, Find a Way to Care, is really a lot of organ on it.
Marc:Yeah, sounds great.
Marc:You sound great.
Marc:The amazing thing about being you and for me anyways, about being somewhat of a purist about it is that there's a consistency of the music that, you know, your commitment to the to the style.
Marc:You know, you can I can feel your changes and what you explore.
Marc:But like when you when you land on it, I mean, you're one of the few guys really that has spent a lifetime writing original blues songs.
Marc:I mean, you know, there's not, you know, I noticed that from the beginning that a lot of guys that started with the blues, they did the covers and then they sort of like moved into a different kind of music.
Marc:But you've been writing blues songs for 50 years or so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's, you know, the thing about the blues, the first thing I learned about it is that these guys are singing about events in their own life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Their experiences they're putting into music and words.
Guest:So that was important to me.
Guest:If I'm going to write songs, that it should be something that was about my life.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And as long as you stay somewhat challenged and mildly unhappy.
Marc:Well, you don't have to be.
Guest:You can be joyous.
Guest:Whatever emotions that are common to all people.
Guest:And I think that's where people can identify when they hear it.
Guest:They say, oh, that happened to me.
Marc:Yeah, I think the blues is about.
Marc:It's about elevating.
Marc:It's about getting over whatever that is, the struggles of life.
Marc:It's not depressing music.
Marc:No, it's a healing thing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Okay, so where'd you pick up the harp?
Marc:When did that happen for you?
Guest:That was kind of later.
Guest:The harmonica was, I don't even remember how that started, but I filled around with it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you just got the hang of it?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, just like everybody else, you start off trying to copy the people that you have heard.
Guest:I think it's probably Sonny Terry was one of the first ones who took my fancy.
Guest:And then that led, of course, to Sonny Boy Williamson, who for me is the king.
Marc:Yeah, Sonny Terry's like more of a folk blues, and Sonny Boy Williamson is a real kind of boogie-woogie rocker.
Guest:Yeah, but there's a crossover there, because Sonny Boy played acoustic, too, unlike Little Walter and all the electrified blues players.
Marc:Right, he started with acoustic.
Guest:So when I worked with Sonny Boy, he taught me a few things, mainly what not to do.
Marc:When did you work with him?
Guest:In 64, 1964, 64 or 65.
Guest:So you're like 30, 31?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you already had the Blues Breakers or before?
Guest:I had the band, yeah.
Guest:I had the Blues Breakers, yeah.
Marc:So let's talk about the beginning of that because it's interesting.
Marc:Look, I'm sort of a Peter Green freak a little bit.
Marc:And the difference, because I think Eric Clapton never played better than with you.
Marc:I just believe that.
Marc:That's just my thought.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, a lot of people say that.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:They do?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But the transition, like the difference between someone like Peter Green, because we were talking about the blues as being sort of a release and a joyful music in a way.
Marc:Like Peter Green, his guitar playing is fucking heartbreaking sometimes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's heavy.
Marc:But when did you start the band and who was in the original lineup and how'd that come about?
Guest:Well, I had a band called the Blues Syndicate in Manchester, when Cyril Davis and Alexis Corner started the blues thing off in London.
Guest:Cyril Davis?
Guest:Yeah, the harmonica player.
Marc:He had like a club, right?
Marc:A residence at a club where he-
Guest:Well, Alexis and Cyril... Alexis Corner?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They got together and found a place where they could play, and it grew very quickly, I think, from their enthusiasm.
Guest:And what was that, 63?
Guest:62.
Guest:It was early 62, I think, yeah.
Guest:And who were the blues bands around?
Guest:Who was coming around?
Guest:Well, there was nobody except those two at that time.
Guest:But, you know, it led to all these, well, the Rolling Stones, for instance, the Yardbirds.
Guest:There are so many bands.
Guest:It's happened very, very suddenly.
Guest:So here's me up in Manchester.
Guest:You know, these guys are playing stuff I've played all my life.
Guest:And I thought, well, this is an opportunity for me to, you know, put my oar into the water.
Guest:So I met Alexis and he encouraged me to come down to London to try things out, which I did for one weekend and got three gigs there with the band that I had in Manchester.
Marc:Okay, so you go down to London, you get a few gigs, it's you and those guys.
Guest:Yeah, and then the Manchester guys didn't want to move down to London and give up their Manchester lifestyle and their jobs.
Guest:So I went down on my own and Alexis introduced me to enough musicians so that we could get started.
Marc:So the musicians that were around the blues scene, because I talked to Keith Richards, too, about it, and Cyril had an impact on them as well.
Marc:So the guys who were around were people like the Stones, and did you all just hang out together?
Marc:I mean, that's really the question, because it seemed like a very specific scene, and then it sort of blew up, right?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, London is, you know, there were so many different clubs that sprang up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They had usually been trad jazz venues.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But, you know, then it took over, the blues took over.
Marc:And then where did this sort of like the pop music guys fit in?
Marc:Where did the Beatles fit into this?
Guest:Well, they don't really, but they did, I don't know, they kind of spearheaded the idea that regular guys could put a band together and make original music.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So they were all part of that explosion of youth.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But not blues guys.
Guest:No, not as such.
Marc:It's sort of funny to me that like because you're, you know, a full on blues guy, a purist.
Marc:And, you know, when I talked to Keith, they really set out to be like a real blues band as well.
Marc:There was this idea of authenticity that needed to be honored.
Marc:Did you feel that?
Guest:Yeah, that was uppermost in a lot of people's minds when it first started.
Guest:And then when they all got into it, they kind of found their own identity and veered off into their own individual directions, which could have been rock and roll.
Guest:It could have been anything, whatever individuality required.
Marc:And then the late 60s kind of blew it all up.
Yeah.
Marc:yeah it was it was it was very exciting time we were working eight or nine gigs a week you know so there's plenty of work there so how'd you go about auditioning someone like because i imagine then you after the manchester guy left those guys went back home so did you go through an auditioning process how did you meet the original band how'd you meet eric and was it eric the first band
Guest:No, he was in about two years later from the first band.
Guest:No, I just, you know, whoever was in the band, I think John McVie was the first one that I used on bass.
Guest:And you just met him hanging around?
Guest:No, he wasn't hanging around.
Guest:It was Cyril Davis's bass player lived in the same area of London that John lived.
Guest:So he wasn't available.
Guest:So he told me to look up John McVie, who was just starting to play.
Guest:So I tried John and John worked out fine.
Guest:First of all, I remember John coming into the room and saying, what's a 12 bar?
Guest:So he didn't.
Guest:So I was really starting at the beginning.
Guest:So you had to teach him.
Guest:Indirectly, yeah.
Marc:He knew what he was doing, but he didn't know.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it was very much like that.
Guest:But, you know, I didn't really audition people other than, you know, have them show up at the gig if I had and test them out that way.
Guest:And Bernie Watson was the guitar player and he was really good.
Guest:He came from Cyril Davis's band originally, so...
Marc:So Cyril Davis, that band was the source band for everybody.
Guest:Yeah, that one.
Guest:Alexis and Cyril were together initially, and then they had a difference of opinion.
Guest:Cyril wanted to be more purist, and Alexis wanted to use horns.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, more jazz influence.
Guest:So they split up, so that mushroomed into two bands right there.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:So the horns were for a jazz influence, not for like an R&B influence.
Marc:Because there were guys like J.B.
Marc:Lenoir, they used horns.
Guest:Yeah, I know, but Cyril didn't handle that.
Guest:No horns?
Guest:No.
Marc:He just wanted the basic combo, like two guitars?
Guest:Yeah, basic combo, plus Cyril had three girl singers.
Marc:Didn't have a problem with that.
Marc:Ray Letts.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:He didn't want horns, but he would have girl singers.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:We understand where his priorities were.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So when you started playing with the first band, what was your sort of manifesto in terms of purists or not purists?
Marc:You had certain covers that you did and it sort of grew out of that?
Guest:Yeah, covers and stuff that I wrote myself.
Marc:But you were the band leader.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that sort of has been your place through all the records, really.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, well, it's a great place to be for me because, you know, you know what kind of music you want, so you know what kind of musicians you want, so you know how to pick them.
Guest:So people ask me all the time how I managed to pick all these people who've become, you know, internationally famous over the years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, like, did you audition them?
Guest:And I didn't really, I didn't ever do auditions.
Guest:They sit in?
Guest:No, I just knew of them and knew they'd be the right ones.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Where did you first see like Ansley Dunbar on drums?
Guest:I really can't remember.
Marc:Because he turned out to be sort of a wizard, you know, beyond the blues.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he got to be so busy in a good way, but it put Peter Green off and it didn't sit well with him, all the jazzy drumming.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so it wasn't in Peter's direction, so I'd ask Ainsley, time was up, and then we got Mick Fleetwood in at Peter's request.
Guest:So that's how that came about, Mick Fleetwood joining.
Marc:okay and uh when when you pick it's very complicated all this to explain isn't it kind of but like i i don't think you know enough people you know know about certain things as time goes on and people can you know it's all available now i mean like so easily you can just get on your computer that it all it really takes now to to even just to mention these names for somebody who's listening to this and they're like ansley who and then they go look it up and they look you up and they're like holy shit
Marc:Like, there's 100 records here.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's sort of a fascinating time, you know.
Marc:And a lot of people, there's just so much coming in that they don't respect the history of it.
Marc:I know.
Guest:Well, you know, for us to have access to all these things in the early days, you know, you had to go out and buy a 78 recorder.
Guest:And, you know, you really had to work at it.
Guest:You know, there wasn't the great availability of the music that everybody takes for granted now.
Marc:And I think that the attention you had to pay for it, it paid to it, was almost like the reverence of it.
Marc:Like, if you had that one record, you're like, I got it.
Marc:Very much so, yeah.
Marc:And you'd go home and you'd listen to it, like, you know, a hundred times.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And just kind of pound it into your heart.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, Eric Clapton, when... Like, I have no sense of...
Marc:Because it's clear, you listen to those records, you guys are a band.
Marc:He wasn't standing out front.
Marc:He did his part.
Marc:You sang and did all your parts.
Marc:But when you were playing with him initially, did you have a sense that he was somewhat of a beyond brilliant blues player?
Guest:Well, anybody that I've ever hired, I always have that feeling that they're all very special people who have their own identity.
Guest:So it's the same for anybody who I've ever hired.
Guest:I hear things in people that reach me emotionally.
Guest:Oh, that's the connection.
Guest:Yeah, and so I know right off the bat.
Marc:And when you guys were working on stuff, like when you were working on the first Blues Breakers record, or the one where you started working with Eric, how much of a collaboration in terms of styles?
Marc:Because he was a Freddie King guy, and you've got your influences.
Marc:Did you have those kind of conversations where it's sort of like, can we do a Freddie thing?
Marc:Are you into that?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I think I probably introduced Eric to Freddie King.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Probably.
Guest:Because in the early days, Eric lived so far out of town that had a spare room at my house, so he stayed at my house at the beginning.
Guest:How old was he, like 20?
Guest:Yeah, 19 or 20.
Marc:So that's probably where he got it, from your records.
Guest:Yeah, because I had all my records available to him, so he made a lot of discoveries.
Guest:We used to listen to records together, and it opened up a whole world for him.
Marc:So you were the wizard.
Yeah.
Guest:i guess you're the guy did you do that with all the guys like did you do that with like drummers and bass players as well like with john mcvee i don't know not really nothing that i can remember you know it's always been very casual i know who i want and and it works out because they they fit in and then what why did eric leave ultimately
Guest:oh well he was restless you know and the fact that Jack Bruce was in my band at the same time that Eric was the two of them got together and they were just on fire with each other and then Ginger Baker crept in there and talked to him
Guest:He'd worked with Jack a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they'd become great enemies.
Guest:And together they talked Eric into making this power trio.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Off they went.
Marc:So where did the Yardbirds fit in?
Marc:That was before Eric?
Marc:Yeah, before me.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, so that's how Cream started.
Marc:Ginger Baker stole your guitar player and your bass player.
Guest:Well, Jack and Ginger were at war with each other right from the beginning.
Guest:So they'd worked with Graham Bond for a couple of torturous years.
Guest:But they were with each other, yet they still played together.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They fought together and they played together.
Guest:I mean, that's why cream didn't last very long.
Guest:It just exploded.
Marc:And then what, Blind Faith happened after that, I guess?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you were just going, like when that happened, when they went off.
Guest:When Eric and Jack lived, I brought John McVie back, and he promised not to drink so much and be a good boy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so i needed a guitar player so you know we didn't have any time off i was working at gigs seven nights a week so you just had to keep moving so i just had to you know keep auditioning guitar players on on the gigs you know let them all have a go and peter green was one of those in the audience and he was uh bold enough to grab me and say you know why are you using these guys i'm much better than they are
Guest:So, you know, he kept coming to gigs and, you know, dissing them and saying you should have a go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, you know, I said, okay, you come in and have a do, and it was great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It only lasted a week, then Eric came back, so...
Marc:Oh, it lasted a week?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then Eric came back?
Guest:Eric came back, and I'd promised Eric if he came back from Greece and his madcap adventures.
Guest:With Kareem?
Guest:No, before Kareem.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So this is before he left.
Guest:He went to Greece?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Some harebrained idea.
Marc:You don't even know what it was.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So was there tension between Peter and Eric?
Marc:No, I don't think they really knew each other.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:Because did you feel like when you had a guitar player, you had what you were doing, but obviously the tone of the band changed with Peter, right?
Marc:In terms of how he plays.
Marc:It's a lot more minor, it's heavy hearted stuff.
Guest:It's to do with a musician's individuality, you know, the music varies and it comes to reflect the personality of whoever's playing it.
Guest:So even though you might be playing the same songs with a new guitar player or a new whatever, you know, it will change the whole dynamic of the thing, you know, so...
Guest:sure yeah i always like to choose i choose musicians whatever their instruments are for what they can you know bring to the table do you keep in touch with these guys i wouldn't know how to because they don't have their phone numbers or anything they're all in the case in case of eric you know i mean yeah i have no idea how anybody would get in touch with him
Marc:When was the last time you saw him?
Marc:You never show up at festivals together or anything?
Marc:He seems to be back into the blues kind of full on.
Guest:Well, he hasn't given me a call to invite me on it.
Guest:That's sort of sad to me.
Guest:Peter is a lost soul, so I don't know.
Guest:Mick Taylor is also not very available.
Guest:He's a bit of a wanderer, and nobody really knows what he's up to.
Marc:Yeah, he showed up with the Stones for a little while.
Guest:Yeah, for a little while, you know, and just whatever happened, I don't know.
Marc:So Mick Taylor came after Peter?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're different players.
Marc:Mick Taylor is very interesting, the way these guys play.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I always make sure that if I choose somebody, I've chosen them for the way they play.
Guest:And so that's the part that they're there for, to do their own take on it.
Marc:And how did that make your music evolve?
Marc:Did you learn from these guys?
Marc:Did you find that playing with these guys pushed you to different places?
Guest:It inevitably does.
Guest:Whoever you're playing with, you are playing collectively, so you're inspiring each other and enjoying the personalities.
Marc:Now, I saw a documentary about Peter Green, that BBC documentary called Man of the World, which was sort of heartbreaking.
Marc:And he claims that the way Fleetwood Mac started is you got them a studio.
Marc:He said that you got him some studio time.
Guest:Yeah, it was a birthday present for him, yeah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was his birthday.
Guest:I said, you can have it over the afternoon at the studio.
Guest:And then you lost your whole band.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It doesn't matter.
Guest:No, I know, I know.
Guest:If a person has got some other direction in mind, it's pointless to slog away at it because their heart and their direction is, they want to do something else.
Marc:And you feel that way still, I guess.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's just the evolution of the music.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So let's talk about when you came stateside.
Marc:I mean, because that seemed like a pretty rich time.
Marc:You know, you were you were here in the late 60s, right?
Marc:First to 68.
Marc:You just you came temporarily or did you move here in 68?
Guest:Well, you know, America was the land of dreams for me.
Guest:It was where all the music came from and everything else was part of culture.
Guest:So once I saw California, that was, for me, the start of me saying, well, I've got to come and live here.
Marc:And you were sort of on the pulse of what was happening here musically because you moved to a pretty exciting... You moved here, right, to Hollywood, to Laurel Canyon.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And that was its own thing, man.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I didn't move for anything.
Guest:So this is the weather and this is the climate and the whole way of life.
Guest:This is where I want to want to be.
Guest:So it only took me less than a year to having first come to America in January.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:And I think by the end of the year, I'd pretty much got it sorted out to come and live in LA.
Marc:And that was in the late 60s.
Marc:So what was it?
Marc:I imagine that being in the blues circuit and seeing what was happening in England in 68.
Marc:So the Stones and the Beatles were already blowing up.
Marc:And you had success with your first few albums.
Marc:And you decided to move here because you thought you could do better in the music business?
Guest:no it wasn't for music reasons at all it was just climate climate yeah way of life and what was laurel canyon like in 68 it was you know obviously there were less houses there so it was you know less built up but it was um you know it was very um perfect place for me good community i always get the feeling that every that your neighbors were always interesting
Guest:Well, Laurel Canyon is a much larger area than people think.
Guest:There's many different roads that wind there around there.
Guest:And I can honestly say that I never met any fellow musicians, named musicians who lived anywhere near me.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:No.
Guest:Did you build friendships with some over time?
Guest:Well, only in the course of when you're playing shows together and you meet various people.
Guest:Zappa lived up there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, Frank was the one who I stayed at his house for my summer vacation.
Guest:Where'd you meet Frank?
Guest:In New York, actually.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think maybe I met him in Europe first.
Guest:Frank's gigs were always very different from each other, you know.
Guest:He had such a wide repertoire and imagination, you know.
Marc:And how was it?
Marc:Because it seems so different than, like, I think he is sort of blues-based somewhere in there.
Guest:Yeah, he was very, very, his interests were very much in blues, but they were also in so many other different forms of music.
Marc:And you were just open-minded to that?
Marc:You were sort of not, you liked what he was doing?
Guest:Yeah, he was a great guy and very, very...
Guest:Very creative.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It must have been wild to see those shows at that time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, it's just very, very exciting.
Guest:I think, luckily, they are available to people.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It seems like the Zappa catalog is well cataloged.
Marc:It's huge.
Marc:It's well tended to.
Marc:Yes, indeed.
Marc:Well, you're no slouch with the records, man.
Guest:Yeah, I counted them up today.
Guest:It's 67.
Guest:67?
Guest:Original albums, and there's countless others which are compilations and things like that.
Marc:So you put out at least one record a year, really?
Guest:That's the way it seems to have worked out, although it just depends on who the record company was.
Guest:Initially, with Decca Records, there was the beginning of the so-called blues explosion.
Guest:We did several albums in a short time together.
Marc:And it seems that once you moved here, it was undeniable that there was a different tone to the music and to what was going on here musically in the late 60s, right?
Marc:So I don't think you departed from being a blues purist, but you did do different types of records once you got here, right?
Guest:Well, I also did that before.
Guest:I did the Bear Wires album.
Guest:I had the horn section and using jazz players.
Guest:And then the Turning Point album was with no drums.
Guest:So they're all different explorations in my career and things that I've wanted to try.
Marc:Which is the one where it's just two of you, or you almost like a solo record?
Marc:Oh, that's the blues alone.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Where I played all the instruments except drums.
Guest:And you just overdubbed it?
Guest:Yeah, double tracking.
Marc:Was that more interesting then?
Marc:Did you refer that to working with a band?
Guest:It was an experiment.
Guest:It was for Decca Records, had a low-budget label which they put on various things that they didn't have to fork out any money for.
Guest:So they offered me a chance of just doing something solo.
Guest:It wouldn't cost them anything.
Marc:So you just took them up on it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I thought, well, that's good.
Guest:It wouldn't affect my regular record release schedule.
Guest:And working with jazz guys, how is that different for you?
Guest:I don't know how to explain it.
Guest:Do you like it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Whoever I pick is going to be stimulating to me, whether it's jazz, whether it's rock and roll, whatever it is.
Marc:So here's a question.
Marc:I think it's a tricky question, though.
Marc:Are you happy with the way it's unfolded for you?
Guest:Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
Marc:I mean, it's amazing that you work and tour a lot.
Guest:I've never had a year off or any kind of time off.
Guest:I've always worked.
Marc:And you've stayed here in the Los Angeles area for this whole time?
Marc:Yeah, I've lived here more years than I've lived in England.
Marc:Now when you tour, because I know you've done some live records, and where do you find, because early on even with the blues, it seems that in Europe there's a more intense following for certain types of music.
Marc:Do you find that when you were starting out with the blues, where were your big countries?
Marc:Where did you find the most success?
Guest:Well, there was so much work in England that, you know, there was no time to go anywhere else.
Guest:But I think we went to Scandinavia first as the country we went to.
Guest:It just grew gradually.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:And who do you find go to the shows now when you come?
Marc:Are they the original core?
Marc:Like, are they older people?
Guest:Yeah, you know, you get people who are not necessarily there at the beginning, but, you know, have been following for a long time.
Guest:And they've got kids who have been brainwashed into listening to this music, you know, by their parents, you know.
Guest:And then they come, you know, the kids are now teenagers and older, you know.
Guest:It's a mixture always.
Guest:And you have kids, right?
Guest:Yeah, I've got six and six grandchildren.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Are they all around or any of them in England or are they all here?
Guest:No, they're all, they've got two here.
Marc:And did any of them go into the music business?
Guest:Yeah, my eldest one, Gaz, Gaz's rock and blues has been a mainstay on the London blues scene for rock and roll scene more for 20 years or more.
Guest:So he's a big deal in London.
Guest:And when you go to London, do you ever sit in with him?
Guest:Well, they don't really have time.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:But they have done, yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:And what's he play?
Guest:He plays keyboard.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you show him everything?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:You don't know?
Marc:You never sat down with him when he was a little kid?
Guest:No, I don't do things like that.
Guest:You know, it's just around.
Guest:The music's there in the house.
Guest:If you want to take it.
Guest:Yeah, there you go.
Marc:Well, let's talk about the new record.
Marc:How do you approach it?
Marc:Because it seems to me the production is really clean and it's solid and you can hear everything and your keyboards are right there, your voice sounds great.
Marc:It doesn't seem like any of your energy or focus has diminished at all in the entire career.
Marc:It's sort of fascinating.
Marc:I guess you never did the drugs.
Guest:No, I never did.
Guest:I never smoked a joint or anything.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:I did my share of alcohol.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I haven't done that for 15 years or more.
Guest:How do you feel about this record?
Guest:I love it.
Guest:The band that I have now is the best one I've ever had.
Guest:We've been together over five years now, and it doesn't seem like anything at all.
Guest:Who's in it?
Guest:Greg Arzab is the bass player from Chicago.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And his friend Jay Davenport, also from Chicago, is on drums.
Guest:And then I have Rocky Athos on guitar from Texas.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:He's a Texas blues player?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How'd you find him?
Marc:Was he just out here?
Guest:Well, no, he sat in with us when Buddy Whittington was the guitar player, and so he and Buddy were good friends, and I just always remembered when I finished with the Blues Breakers, you know, I thought of Rocky would be
Guest:the next guy.
Marc:Oh, so he's been around a long time.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Now, are you like, you know, it was weird because I had this moment where I made the mistake of telling Keith Richards that I really haven't seen the Stones live since Bill left.
Marc:You know, because in my mind,
Marc:You know, that was the band.
Marc:And you come from a different, you know, your bands evolve, you evolve.
Marc:But in my mind, the Stones needed Bill Wyman.
Marc:And he was like, oh, that was 25 years ago.
Marc:I got a great bass player now.
Marc:Like, obviously, he loves Bill Wyman, but it's about the band you have.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:And I imagine like even when you walked into my house and I had those first few records, you had that moment.
Marc:It seemed where you're like, oh, yeah, those records.
Marc:I guess if you're the guy doing it and you keep growing as an artist, you're not going to get hung up on those first three records for your whole life like some people are.
Marc:It's a long time ago.
Guest:Let's face it.
Marc:It is.
Marc:I guess it's a long time ago.
Marc:But I guess because of the vortex.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But do you feel that way, that basically the band you have is the best band that you're in?
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:There's no question about it.
Guest:It's not just the music.
Guest:What holds it together is the friendships and the camaraderie you have when you're traveling all around all the time.
Guest:It has to be right, because out of that comes the music.
Marc:right and i imagine that because of those first few records and you know even you know the ones previous to moving here this is a pretty short time yeah i mean like because you're playing with these guys you said on this record for five years already and that's probably a pretty long run for a band that you've had uh yeah yeah the the price of that was was with buddy whittington it was 12 to 15 years and before that coco montoya and walter trout was 10 years
Marc:Yeah, so those are real relationships.
Marc:In retrospect, the guys that went on to become these rock heroes or whatever.
Marc:They run less than a year.
Marc:Yeah, flash.
Marc:That's amazing.
Guest:So does it annoy you to talk about it?
Guest:No, it's fascinating, really.
Guest:People can't get over it, really.
Marc:Well, I have to assume that on some level, somewhere in you.
Guest:It's good stuff.
Marc:Yeah, but it's hard to get over Peter Green, isn't it?
Marc:Even for you.
Guest:Well, the thing is, it's all there.
Guest:Thanks to records, all these things that capture it.
Marc:yeah yeah all time and uh and in the so do you feel that the how has age affected how you how you approach the music do you find that you've gotten deeper with your lyrics do you find that you know you've gotten a little uh more open-hearted how does it work like that it's freer it's freer and uh it comes more naturally now i think you know with the right people
Guest:that we all encourage each other and there's no moodies or things that can get in the way of the creativity right there's no e the egos are less yeah we're all we're out there to have a good time and share it with the audience and you're all old pros yeah yeah well when how's the touring schedule looking you're gonna head out soon when do you head out on this record we leave on uh on thursday
Marc:Well, I got to say the new record, Find a Way to Care, is great.
Marc:And it was a joy listening to it.
Marc:It was amazing talking to you.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Yeah, well, we'll be hitting the road.
Guest:And I think we've got two and a half months with three days off.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:All the dates are on the website, johnmail.com.
Marc:And you feel fit?
Marc:What do you do to take care of yourself?
Marc:You eat well?
Marc:You exercise?
No.
Guest:I get out of bed in the morning and go swim some laps in the pool.
Guest:Oh, you do?
Guest:That wakes me up.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:Oh, good.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, you look great.
Guest:You look great.
Guest:And I really appreciate talking to you.
Guest:It was an honor for me.
Marc:Well, excellent, Mark.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Blues legend, John Mayall.
Marc:Check some of that new stuff out.
Marc:Check some of that old stuff out.
Marc:Check it all out.
Marc:That mid-period.
Marc:That early, actually, those first few records.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Marc:And the new record.
Marc:Do what you gotta do.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get on the mailing list.
Marc:Check my schedule.
Marc:Do what you gotta do.
Marc:Get some JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:And to close this show, I'd like to say I feel uncomfortable in my body.
Marc:I'm exhausted.
Marc:And, uh... Oh, I'm a little kind of fat guy.
Guest:Boomer lives!