Episode 631 - Jerrod Carmichael

Episode 631 • Released August 23, 2015 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:Alright, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:12Marc:What the fucksters?

00:00:13Marc:How are you, what the fuckineers?

00:00:16Marc:What the fuckadelics?

00:00:17Marc:Yes.

00:00:18Marc:Yes, this is Mark Maron.

00:00:19Marc:This is my show.

00:00:20Marc:This is WTF, the podcast.

00:00:23Marc:I'm talking.

00:00:24Marc:Today on the show, we have the wonderful Gerard Carmichael, a young gun, a guy with the goods.

00:00:32Marc:It was good talk, man.

00:00:34Marc:It was intense and funny and lit up.

00:00:36Marc:He's all lit up, this dude.

00:00:38Marc:He's got a show on, what is it?

00:00:40Marc:Where's that show going to be happening?

00:00:42Marc:It's going to be the Carmichael Show.

00:00:44Marc:Premieres this week, actually, Wednesday at 9, 8 central on NBC.

00:00:48Marc:And I'd reached out to him before because there was a lot of buzz.

00:00:51Marc:There was a lot of heat on this man, Carmichael.

00:00:53Marc:Smart, funny fucker.

00:00:55Marc:I did real time the other day.

00:00:57Marc:I was on real time with Bill Maher and I think it went pretty well.

00:00:59Marc:I felt good about it and I approached it a different way than I usually do.

00:01:04Marc:Now, I think Bill's great.

00:01:07Marc:I like Bill.

00:01:08Marc:I know he's a difficult personality for some people.

00:01:10Marc:Some people love to hate him.

00:01:12Marc:Some people love to love him.

00:01:13Marc:But he's very good at what he does.

00:01:15Marc:He's very on top of it.

00:01:16Marc:He does his homework.

00:01:18Marc:He's part of the dialogue.

00:01:19Marc:It's all real and happening right then.

00:01:21Marc:His monologues are written by brilliant dudes.

00:01:24Marc:I know a lot of them.

00:01:25Marc:Billy Martin, Chris Kelly.

00:01:27Marc:And, you know, he delivers jokes like a dirty Johnny Carson.

00:01:32Marc:He's a classic television monologist.

00:01:34Marc:And the show is what it is.

00:01:36Marc:It's political, but it's been around for 13 seasons or so.

00:01:41Marc:It's a working machine.

00:01:43Marc:And sometimes it packs a punch, man.

00:01:47Marc:So I'm always thrilled when I get to go on there.

00:01:49Marc:But it does mean I have to re-immerse myself in the world of politics a bit and get up to speed.

00:01:53Marc:And I'm always surprised at just how far I've drifted.

00:01:56Marc:Yes, I interviewed the president, but I used to spend a lot of time on the pulse of politics every fucking day, crunching the news, figuring out the angle, getting involved with the pace of the bullshit.

00:02:09Marc:And I got to be honest with you, choosing to pull myself out of that was the best decision I ever made in my life.

00:02:16Marc:But sometimes I feel a little out of the loop.

00:02:18Marc:So getting up to speed was exciting.

00:02:20Marc:Doesn't take much to get up to speed.

00:02:22Marc:But the point was or is that generally when I get the topics for real time, I just freak out.

00:02:28Marc:I'm like, I got to write a bunch of jokes.

00:02:29Marc:I got to write a bunch of jokes.

00:02:30Marc:I got to find my place to put them in there.

00:02:33Marc:And I had some opinions on some stuff and I had some things I wanted to talk about.

00:02:37Marc:But I also didn't want to come off as a self-righteous, strident, angry asshole.

00:02:43Marc:I know that guy.

00:02:44Marc:That guy lives within me.

00:02:45Marc:That guy is a guy that wants to take me down from the inside.

00:02:49Marc:He's punching my brain right behind my eyes right now sometimes.

00:02:54Marc:But I know for me that when I get that kind of fire going, when I feel that crack hit of rage, that it's not always about what's coming out of my mouth or what I think it's about.

00:03:05Marc:It's usually about that crack hit of rage.

00:03:09Marc:And I think there's consensus on crack's not good for you, and rage isn't great for you either.

00:03:15Marc:But this time I just tried to do something different.

00:03:17Marc:I tried to honor who I am and I want to honor who I am in every conversation and where I've been coming from.

00:03:23Marc:So I just I got up to speed.

00:03:24Marc:I talked to my producer, Brendan, who's a political wizard of sorts, knows what's going on and all things.

00:03:30Marc:Don't even know where he gets time to load his brain up with shit.

00:03:33Marc:But he knows everything about everything on a day to day basis.

00:03:36Marc:I think he actually has some sort of USB plug in the back of his brain.

00:03:41Marc:that just plugs into the back of his head and he just downloads the Internet every day.

00:03:45Marc:He's one of those guys.

00:03:47Marc:But he's up to speed and he can get me the angles that I need and get me the info I need.

00:03:51Marc:So I go over the stuff.

00:03:52Marc:I go over the Trump.

00:03:54Marc:I go over the Hillary.

00:03:55Marc:I go over a little bit of Social Security, but that gets in the weeds a bit.

00:03:59Marc:Go over a little bit of the Obamacare business, some Ashley Madison stuff.

00:04:02Marc:I get up to I'm all of a sudden like, you know, involved in the news of the day.

00:04:07Marc:So instead of being compulsive and freaking myself out and panicking about jokes, I just panicked in general.

00:04:12Marc:And I just got an angle on stuff and thought about things and thought about how I'd respond to things maybe if I had the opportunity.

00:04:19Marc:And I was on the show with Senator Claire McCaskill, Representative Donna Edwards, Charles Cook, a British dude, writes for the National Review, sort of a Hitchens-esque intellectual sort.

00:04:32Marc:And a guy named Dan Buettner, I believe is how you would say his name.

00:04:36Marc:We wrote a book about blue zones, I think they're called, where people live longer.

00:04:40Marc:Whatever the case.

00:04:43Marc:We did the thing, and I felt good about it, and it's always great to see Bill work because it's one of those things where you're dealing with a professional comedian who's been at it a long time that has broadened his spectrum and is able to do what he does.

00:04:56Marc:No one really does what he does, and he mixes it up.

00:05:00Marc:He's just solid.

00:05:01Marc:He's been at it a long time, and he's got a thing.

00:05:05Marc:Hats off to those guys.

00:05:08Marc:I like to watch Bill work, and I like talking to him.

00:05:11Marc:He's very quick.

00:05:13Marc:so we do the show now this is about this is about anger really it's really about anger and i got a guy i know who was in town i'm not going to mention names you know he's trying to get into the racket get into the business one way or the other i'm not even sure how

00:05:34Marc:But he's an all right guy.

00:05:35Marc:I like the guy.

00:05:37Marc:But after I do the real time, I go do a spot.

00:05:41Marc:I run up to the comedy store.

00:05:42Marc:I do a spot.

00:05:42Marc:And I run into my old buddy Tom Rhodes, who I haven't seen in a long time.

00:05:47Marc:Tom Rhodes has come in from the road.

00:05:50Marc:And he's now got himself an apartment here in Los Angeles.

00:05:53Marc:Tom Rhodes is a great comedian, an old friend of mine.

00:05:55Marc:Spent about a decade out there living the life of a roaming gypsy internationally.

00:06:01Marc:Doing the stand up, living hotel to hotel and living the life.

00:06:05Marc:But he's settling down.

00:06:07Marc:It was nice to see him.

00:06:08Marc:So me, Tom Rhodes and this cat go out to Cantor's to to stuff our faces with some unhealthy Jew food.

00:06:17Marc:After I got off stage at real time, this cat had said to me, like, I'm a little surprised that you didn't call Bill out on his racism on that one joke.

00:06:25Marc:He's from Texas.

00:06:26Marc:And I'm like, well, I didn't register it as racist at all.

00:06:29Marc:Are you familiar with what Bill does?

00:06:31Marc:He sort of pushes the envelope a little bit, but I didn't register it.

00:06:34Marc:He's like, oh, well, I just, it felt racist to me, and I'm just, I'm surprised that you didn't call him out.

00:06:39Marc:I'm like, who the fuck?

00:06:40Marc:You know, like, I felt it right then.

00:06:42Marc:This was right after the show.

00:06:43Marc:It's like you I'm going to sit there on Bill Maher show and talk shit to Bill Maher about his choice.

00:06:49Marc:It's just like not only did it not register as racist, but like who says that to a guy?

00:06:53Marc:You think you would like it?

00:06:55Marc:Just like, you know, you would have gone.

00:06:56Marc:You know, it's like you're lying to yourself.

00:06:59Marc:It's just it's like the fucking equivalent in show business of some sort of armchair quarterback.

00:07:05Marc:You know, guys have done very little to show for themselves.

00:07:09Marc:And they'll just sit there and just sort of like, yeah, you know what you should have done.

00:07:12Marc:Yeah, I know what you should do right now.

00:07:14Marc:Shut the fuck up.

00:07:15Marc:But, you know, everyone's entitled to his opinion.

00:07:18Marc:So we made it through that.

00:07:19Marc:And I'm like, well, I get where you're coming from, but I just think you're wrong.

00:07:22Marc:So then we get to Cantor's.

00:07:24Marc:And he just starts going on again.

00:07:26Marc:He just starts continuing.

00:07:28Marc:He's like, I don't like Bill Maher.

00:07:31Marc:He's not a very good comedian.

00:07:32Marc:I'm like, what are you talking about?

00:07:35Marc:He's a great comedian.

00:07:36Marc:And his monologues, he does like a Carson-style monologue.

00:07:39Marc:He's very tight.

00:07:42Marc:He's like, I just don't like him.

00:07:44Marc:I'm like, this is a guy that's built a thing that works.

00:07:48Marc:And not only that, he's a button pusher, and we need button pushers.

00:07:51Marc:And he's an antagonist.

00:07:52Marc:He's a provocateur.

00:07:54Marc:He's a shit starter.

00:07:56Marc:So, you know, no matter what you think of him or how the show is now, what it used to be, whatever, you know, he's he's he's good at what he does.

00:08:05Marc:And it's necessary that someone is out there doing that.

00:08:10Marc:OK, this isn't about Bill Maher.

00:08:12Marc:This is about where my self-righteous comes from, you know.

00:08:16Marc:Now, the last time I'd seen this cat, I did a show of his that he hosted in Austin, and it took place at an abandoned shopping mall where he had a TV operation set up.

00:08:26Marc:I like the guy.

00:08:27Marc:It's not an issue.

00:08:30Marc:It's not about not liking the guy.

00:08:31Marc:It's just like we're sitting at Cantor's.

00:08:32Marc:He's like, I just don't think that Bill Maher works hard enough on his comedy.

00:08:40Marc:And I'm like, I just, I'm like, what does that mean?

00:08:43Marc:He does a weekly show that requires a lot of research and organization.

00:08:47Marc:I mean, I just, I'm not getting it.

00:08:49Marc:He's like, no, I'm okay with the show.

00:08:50Marc:Just don't think he works very hard on his comments.

00:08:52Marc:It's like, what fucking difference does it make?

00:08:54Marc:I mean, I get your, I got his opinion, but he wouldn't let it go.

00:08:57Marc:And I just finally, I was like, who the fuck are you to sort of shit on a lifer

00:09:04Marc:Look, if you're a comic I respect and we're sitting there and we're shitting on people, that happens.

00:09:09Marc:Does it come from insecurity?

00:09:10Marc:Does it come from bitterness?

00:09:11Marc:Does it come from, you know, honest to God, you know, reasonable criticism?

00:09:15Marc:All of the above.

00:09:15Marc:But if you're a guy that's just a comer and, you know, and, you know, I don't know what you've done.

00:09:20Marc:The last time I saw that guy was wearing a bathrobe and a wig.

00:09:23Marc:Fine.

00:09:23Marc:I mean, I don't know what kind of show he does.

00:09:26Marc:And maybe it's my fault.

00:09:27Marc:But the truth of the matter is, it's like.

00:09:29Marc:I just blew up and I felt that crack hit of rage.

00:09:33Marc:I'm just sort of like, what the fuck?

00:09:35Marc:And I felt it congeal and come out of my face like a thought fist.

00:09:42Marc:And it felt good in the moment, but afterwards I didn't feel great and I had to apologize and just rephrase it and just agree to disagree.

00:09:52Marc:But it's very funny about how emotional I'm getting about my business, about people who are in my business, respecting the people in my business.

00:10:01Marc:you know understanding the struggles that we all have and and and what and how hard it is to get successful i've also become very emotional about little things and like i just not little things but i just i'm just emotional just seriously man where's your opinion coming from where does it come from

00:10:27Marc:Like, why am I saying what I'm saying about that, that person?

00:10:30Marc:Is it something I really feel?

00:10:32Marc:Is it thought through?

00:10:33Marc:Is it grounded in something intellectual or rational?

00:10:37Marc:Something, is it reasonable criticism?

00:10:40Marc:Or is it just me being a dick?

00:10:45Marc:tricky hard to tell all right i'm very excited now to uh share with you my conversation with uh gerard carmichael a new uh comedy star the the carmichael show premieres this wednesday at nine eight central on nbc so uh check that out and uh and let's talk to gerard

00:11:11Guest:Have you ever been on stage and you hear your voice back?

00:11:16Marc:Sometimes it's terrifying.

00:11:17Marc:Because if you're hearing that and you're noticing it, it's not going well.

00:11:21Guest:It's not going well.

00:11:22Guest:But sometimes I feel like I'm recording a song and I'm immediately listening to playback.

00:11:28Guest:And sometimes I'm like, oh, this rhythm's not bad.

00:11:30Marc:It's not a bad rhythm.

00:11:32Marc:So you can detach from it enough.

00:11:35Marc:You have a certain amount of persistence and perseverance, no matter how it's going up there.

00:11:39Guest:Yes.

00:11:40Guest:oh yeah absolutely so i guess sometimes like it's nice to it when things aren't going well if you can hear your own voice just go that's enough that's entertaining enough for me yeah it's like it's here's the thing it's like it's it kind of is like sex where it's like if you had if you had great sex before you know it's out there you know it's possible right and even in the middle of not so great sex you're like okay it's okay you still know you still got a goal you're gonna you're gonna get back out there

00:12:06Marc:sure right you like that on stage you're like well this chick's not that into it we're not locked in it's not we're not connecting the way i want yeah but uh but she seems to be volunteering for it so look we can get through this you know next time yeah same chick different chick we'll figure it out i wish i had that disposition it was always a well i mean i i didn't when i started but i think i have it more now yeah it used to always be a fight with me i you know it's just uh let's provoke these fuckers

00:12:32Marc:and see how far I can push them.

00:12:34Marc:And then even when they come around, let's make it worse.

00:12:39Marc:There's no reward.

00:12:42Marc:There was no reward for them.

00:12:44Marc:Not really.

00:12:44Marc:It was all like, oh, okay.

00:12:48Marc:Was it always your intention to be an entertainer?

00:12:50Marc:I mean, because sometimes when I started, and I know the kind of shit that you kind of push, that there is something about, there might be a difference between being a comedian and being an entertainer sometimes.

00:13:02Guest:Yeah, and it's funny because I do have this innate desire to be an entertainer, right?

00:13:10Guest:But when on stage, especially when I know an audience hasn't been pushed to that place, part of the benefit, part of the beauty of doing, I think, comedy in New York and L.A.

00:13:21Guest:is that it's these marathon shows.

00:13:23Guest:So you are finding out where you fit in within a lineup.

00:13:29Marc:How do you define your shit?

00:13:31Guest:How do you define your shit?

00:13:32Guest:How is this exactly?

00:13:34Guest:How do I stand out amongst all these other guys?

00:13:37Guest:In 12 minutes.

00:13:38Guest:In 12 minutes.

00:13:39Guest:In 12 minutes.

00:13:40Guest:So if you feel like an audience hasn't been pushed, right?

00:13:43Guest:And you feel like everyone's just giving applesauce, you gotta put a little medicine in it.

00:13:48Marc:Yeah, here's a bowl of shit.

00:13:50Guest:And sometimes you give them a bowl of shit.

00:13:52Marc:Yeah, like some sugar on it.

00:13:53Marc:Look what I just did.

00:13:54Marc:I just fucked your heads.

00:13:58Marc:You'll remember that.

00:13:59Marc:You didn't laugh much, but you'll remember.

00:14:01Marc:You'll never forget this.

00:14:02Marc:That's right.

00:14:02Guest:Which is a major percentage of it.

00:14:05Marc:It's not a bad thing.

00:14:05Guest:Yeah.

00:14:06Guest:Not a bad thing.

00:14:07Guest:Because I've laughed at some guys and then been like, what's his name?

00:14:10Marc:Yeah.

00:14:10Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:14:11Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:14:11Marc:Like a lot of times you go to clubs and it's hard to differentiate between the point of view.

00:14:17Marc:Yeah.

00:14:18Marc:That's the thing.

00:14:18Marc:It's like you can hear different voices and shit.

00:14:20Marc:Yeah.

00:14:20Marc:But you listen is a point of view sort of the same.

00:14:22Marc:Yes.

00:14:22Marc:Detachment from it.

00:14:24Marc:Yes.

00:14:24Marc:Yeah, absolutely.

00:14:25Marc:But I think that what you seem to have been doing is just taking the risks to define... In my mind, the stage is your territory.

00:14:33Marc:You can do whatever the fuck you want with it.

00:14:34Marc:Absolutely.

00:14:35Marc:That's like what we were talking about with Miles Davis in the house, is that you can push it all you want, and by doing that, even when you push too far, you at least know the space you have to work with.

00:14:44Guest:Yes.

00:14:45Guest:You know.

00:14:45Guest:You know all the rules.

00:14:47Guest:Right.

00:14:47Guest:Then break all of them.

00:14:49Guest:Right.

00:14:49Guest:For a little while.

00:14:50Guest:For a little while.

00:14:50Guest:But, I mean, it's like...

00:14:52Guest:Why the fuck do we want to do the same thing that everybody else is doing?

00:14:57Guest:No.

00:14:58Guest:That's the most boring.

00:14:59Guest:That's not art.

00:15:00Guest:It stops being art.

00:15:01Guest:And that is it's like where I got to get off board because it's just so boring.

00:15:05Marc:Right.

00:15:05Marc:And there's also that point where you're like, well, how much of what I'm doing is like there's a difference between pushing people farther than they're willing to go and just being truly yourself.

00:15:19Marc:Right.

00:15:19Guest:yes do you know what i mean that's i think what you're trying to find out what's in between that it's like i can fuck with them this much but why am i really doing that yes when when it stops being honest right you have to because it's like it's like when uh you know we both say things that are edgier but you can tell i think they're honest thoughts right it's not like right and then you know take that yeah shock

00:15:44Guest:king yeah you know like it's like because that's fruitless that it has not that you know it's like this is an honest thought like i really it's it may be fucked up and it may be but this is a honest feeling that i've had it's an honest thought that i've had right that honest way i've viewed something right and i'm not afraid to share that with you and that way even if it's you know provocative or or shocking at least you you have this connection with the audience that's authentic you're not just because like if you're just doing shock shit that's really defensive

00:16:13Marc:Like, you're actually hiding.

00:16:15Marc:You're hiding.

00:16:15Marc:You're hiding behind, you know, buzzwords.

00:16:18Marc:Yeah, this bullshit.

00:16:19Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:19Marc:Blah, blah, blah.

00:16:21Guest:Abortion.

00:16:22Guest:Blah, blah, blah.

00:16:23Marc:Blastation.

00:16:24Guest:Blah, blah, blah.

00:16:25Guest:And then I fucked it.

00:16:26Guest:Like, you know, it's like, what are you even saying anymore?

00:16:28Marc:Is there much of that around anymore?

00:16:30Marc:Is that still happening?

00:16:31Marc:I mean, like a little bit.

00:16:32Guest:I think so, a little bit.

00:16:33Guest:It's a little tired, though.

00:16:34Guest:Right.

00:16:34Marc:Yeah.

00:16:35Marc:Because you feel it that they're just trying to.

00:16:37Guest:Well, now it's gone to where shock existed.

00:16:41Guest:Now it's been replaced with absurdity.

00:16:43Marc:Yeah.

00:16:44Marc:You know, we went through like the fit.

00:16:45Guest:Yeah.

00:16:46Guest:The absurdity of just like and this is the most absurd thing that I can ever say.

00:16:51Guest:You know, it's funny, though, but some guys.

00:16:53Guest:I had a friend, Angelo Bowers.

00:16:56Guest:Oh, the guy who died?

00:16:57Guest:The guy who passed away.

00:16:58Guest:Was that in New York?

00:17:00Marc:That was here.

00:17:01Marc:Yes.

00:17:01Guest:A car accident?

00:17:02Guest:A car accident.

00:17:03Marc:That was horrible.

00:17:04Marc:I remember that guy.

00:17:05Marc:You started here?

00:17:06Guest:He started here.

00:17:07Marc:Did you start here?

00:17:07Guest:I started here as well, yes.

00:17:09Guest:And he was so, nothing he said on stage was the truth.

00:17:13Guest:Yeah.

00:17:14Guest:Everything that he said was kind of like just these made up things.

00:17:17Guest:If you knew him, you knew that's how his mind worked.

00:17:20Guest:It's like when you watch, you know, Jim Carrey, you know, or watch, you know, Robin Williams and these these things, they aren't just saying so.

00:17:27Guest:You know, the other day, my wife, it's not like just these personal stories, but it's true to their sense of humor.

00:17:33Marc:That's right.

00:17:34Marc:Yeah.

00:17:34Marc:If you can feel who they are, then that's cool.

00:17:37Marc:Yes.

00:17:37Guest:And Angela would say some of the most absurd things in the world.

00:17:41Guest:And I usually don't necessarily connect that well with some of that sense of humor when it feels contrived.

00:17:47Guest:Right.

00:17:47Guest:But it didn't feel contrived with him.

00:17:50Guest:Because you knew him.

00:17:51Marc:You got to feel for him.

00:17:51Guest:Yeah.

00:17:52Guest:More than anybody inspired me to be more myself.

00:17:55Guest:Right.

00:17:56Guest:Like more than anyone I've met.

00:17:57Guest:Like he's just like that guy.

00:17:58Marc:Yeah.

00:17:59Guest:It's probably my like my dedicated special to him because he was he's probably like one of my biggest inspirations in comedy.

00:18:06Guest:Really?

00:18:07Guest:Absolutely.

00:18:07Guest:It's nice when they're your peers.

00:18:09Guest:It's amazing when every day just hitting mics, just mic after mic after mic with Angelo was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life.

00:18:18Guest:like it really was always new stuff and we would always i remember we did a montreal uh my first montreal audition we were doing the audition yeah and i saw him writing his notebook and i was writing in mine and i remember walking over to him and whispering like you know we're probably the only two comics in the country trying new shit yeah on the montreal audition right and we we just wanted to like we just had to take that risk we had to take that chance and like yeah yeah

00:18:44Marc:We're the only two comics willing to sabotage our sets because we're the real deal.

00:18:49Marc:Exactly.

00:18:49Marc:Fuck these people.

00:18:50Marc:Fuck these people.

00:18:51Marc:But really, kind of, right?

00:18:53Marc:Sure, man.

00:18:54Marc:Believe me.

00:18:55Marc:I know.

00:18:56Guest:I love the people of Montreal, but as far as industry, it's like, if you can't be yourself, then what's the point?

00:19:02Marc:No, that's true, and it took me a long time to learn certain lessons about that, but I think it's part of our nature as comics usually.

00:19:12Marc:Like if you got the bug to do this when you were a little kid, there's a lot of fuck you in it.

00:19:17Guest:No, but have you not, there's an insane amount of fear

00:19:21Guest:in comedy of course but like like I talk to guys about even staying on Montreal right and I would talk to guys and they and they would say well I hear the people of Montreal like it when you do this or you do that and I'm like who can do your be yourself but then you go and then you say like oh I don't I don't do that yeah yeah I don't do that it's why I haven't done a late night set yeah

00:19:41Marc:because I was like oh well then if I can't just go be exactly myself well that's the trick man right yeah because like I think back in the day the late night sets at least you had seven minutes eight minutes eight minutes maybe you had a shot in eight minutes

00:19:56Marc:Yes.

00:19:57Guest:Now at four and a half.

00:19:58Guest:Four and a half.

00:19:59Guest:It's hard.

00:20:00Guest:You almost have to write these set up punch things, even if it's not you.

00:20:04Marc:You've got to find the three jokes that you can mash together.

00:20:08Marc:Yes.

00:20:08Marc:No, I mean, when I was doing those sets, I knew I wasn't going to be exactly what I am in a live situation.

00:20:14Marc:But in my mind, I was like, well, this is part of the job.

00:20:17Marc:I'm a comedian.

00:20:18Marc:I get to be on TV in this context.

00:20:20Marc:That's one of the available outlets.

00:20:21Marc:How do I fucking master that?

00:20:23Marc:That was the way I thought.

00:20:23Guest:I mean, which is a great way of thinking.

00:20:26Guest:It's almost, in a good sense, it's a great business way of thinking.

00:20:30Marc:Which is like, you know, we're comics.

00:20:31Marc:That's part of the job.

00:20:32Marc:At some point, I got that in my head.

00:20:34Marc:Every one of our heroes did that shit.

00:20:36Guest:Yes.

00:20:37Guest:Yes.

00:20:37Guest:But it's like anything else, right?

00:20:39Guest:Like with the sitcom, with everything, when it starts becoming a thing, that's when it gets dangerous.

00:20:46Guest:It's hard.

00:20:48Marc:uh tonight show set sometimes i see guys some of my friends and i'm like they got the suit on yeah you would never do that you would never do that well i think when you were younger and like you're coming up in a different time that you you know when there was just like three or four outlets yeah you know and the thing was you know letterman or or uh or or or carson you know uh or leno afterwards i didn't have much i didn't do leno till the last year he was there just because i got my should just

00:21:14Guest:Yeah, well, also, my personal philosophy is, like, only do things that would look good in a time capsule.

00:21:21Guest:Right.

00:21:22Guest:So, like, you're the last year of, like, a thing.

00:21:25Marc:Well, it was one of those things where I never had that much respect for him necessarily.

00:21:29Marc:Like, he used to be a great comic, but he was sort of a panda monkey on The Tonight Show.

00:21:33Guest:I've never heard panda monkey before.

00:21:36Marc:But when I was a kid and coming up, it's like Letterman was the guy.

00:21:39Marc:Yeah.

00:21:40Marc:And we, like, that was the grail.

00:21:41Marc:Yeah.

00:21:42Marc:So when you did your first Letterman, you were like, holy fuck.

00:21:44Marc:fuck yeah it was pretty amazing because it was this huge theater it was cold in there and it was a real theater and you respected dave and he wanted him to like you yeah but i wore a fucking suit and it was a shiny suit really yeah i didn't know how shiny it was but i i like i look at that first set it was tight as fuck and it was good and it was me but it wasn't like me that you'd see in a club yeah there's no way to do that really in five minutes six minutes

00:22:09Guest:Yeah.

00:22:10Guest:So you just avoid it altogether?

00:22:11Guest:Yeah.

00:22:12Guest:I attempted to do one.

00:22:15Guest:Where?

00:22:16Guest:Letterman, actually.

00:22:17Guest:I got a note.

00:22:18Guest:I sent in a tape, and it was like we prefer more set up punchline, like that structure.

00:22:25Guest:And I was like, oh, I'm cool.

00:22:27Marc:What?

00:22:27Marc:So you're not doing it.

00:22:28Guest:So I just didn't do it.

00:22:29Marc:Huh.

00:22:30Marc:Like, I don't know how you work, but I feel like we work somewhere.

00:22:33Marc:Like, you know, you write ideas and then you just you just talk them out.

00:22:37Marc:Is that what you do?

00:22:37Marc:I mean, you know, yeah.

00:22:38Marc:Yeah.

00:22:38Guest:It's like ideas is thoughts.

00:22:40Marc:Right.

00:22:40Marc:So then you do a certain amount of repetition.

00:22:42Marc:It polishes itself and grows up in public.

00:22:45Marc:yes the joke yeah yeah so like is it like i just had an experience last night at the store where i i've been doing this line in this bit for for a few months now but it just never what didn't click as hard as i wanted i never understood why because it ties back into an earlier part of the bit and last night it just like it did what it was supposed to do yeah it took months and i can't tell you why i don't know why yeah

00:23:07Guest:It just did.

00:23:08Guest:Right.

00:23:08Guest:It just did.

00:23:08Guest:It had its night.

00:23:09Guest:Yeah.

00:23:10Guest:Sometimes a line I wrote in 2010.

00:23:12Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:23:13Guest:Just shows up.

00:23:15Guest:Right.

00:23:15Marc:Or how about.

00:23:16Guest:And you're like, oh, I know.

00:23:17Guest:Oh, I know how to talk about this.

00:23:19Marc:Right.

00:23:19Marc:Yeah.

00:23:20Marc:Yeah.

00:23:20Marc:I fold back in sometimes or different pieces of shit from.

00:23:24Marc:Or how about when like when a punchline is delivered to you?

00:23:27Marc:You know, when you've got a bit, it's not all done, but it's funny enough.

00:23:31Guest:Yes.

00:23:31Marc:And then you're just doing it.

00:23:32Marc:And then one night this thing drops in.

00:23:33Marc:You're like, where'd that fucking come from?

00:23:35Guest:The whole time?

00:23:36Guest:Yeah.

00:23:36Guest:The whole time that should have.

00:23:38Guest:Yeah.

00:23:38Guest:That was, that's what was missing.

00:23:39Marc:I was waiting to happen.

00:23:40Marc:Right.

00:23:41Marc:This whole time.

00:23:42Marc:Like, oh man, that's.

00:23:43Marc:And then you're like, I got to go back and do my special again.

00:23:46Guest:i did that i put i put unfinished thoughts on the special yeah it wasn't that what it was called uh yeah yeah unfinished there was some unfinished thoughts it was some thoughts it's just like oh yeah no and then and then there's that well where did like you started here but you didn't grow up here i'm from north carolina i grew up in north carolina what part uh winston-salem really yeah

00:24:08Marc:I like North Carolina.

00:24:09Marc:Do you?

00:24:10Marc:Yeah.

00:24:10Marc:I tell you, weirdly, as I get older, for some reason, I was very judgmental of the South for very specific reasons.

00:24:18Marc:And a lot of them were probably real, but they weren't my life.

00:24:21Marc:And a lot of them had to do with stereotyping.

00:24:24Marc:But as I go back now, I'm like, this part of the country, although I used to do a joke that was like, in the American South, there's an ignorance that runs so deep, it actually has integrity.

00:24:36Guest:I mean, that's the whole Confederate thing, right?

00:24:40Guest:It's ignorance that transforms into integrity.

00:24:45Marc:It is what it is.

00:24:47Marc:It defines the place.

00:24:48Marc:Yes.

00:24:51Marc:Thank God it's not as active, but clearly racism exists.

00:24:54Marc:But the region is charming.

00:24:57Marc:It's a beautiful country, good people for the most part.

00:25:00Guest:You know what I admire is...

00:25:02Guest:sometimes just the ability to just hold on to something the problem is sometimes it's the wrong thing yeah but just to hold on to something just to have a set of values god believe in something that you just hold on to it and life just is it's a bit clearer wrong-minded shit but he's committed he

00:25:19Guest:He's committed, man.

00:25:20Guest:He's committed.

00:25:21Guest:The grand wizard of the KKK.

00:25:24Marc:Evil motherfucker, but he knows what he thinks.

00:25:26Guest:But think about how simple his life is.

00:25:28Guest:He wakes up.

00:25:30Guest:He's like, do you still hate niggas?

00:25:31Guest:Yep.

00:25:32Guest:Still don't like them.

00:25:33Guest:Time for breakfast.

00:25:34Guest:He eats his waffles.

00:25:37Guest:You know what I mean?

00:25:37Guest:His life is pretty simple.

00:25:39Guest:He eats his chicken and waffles.

00:25:40Guest:He eats his chicken and waffles, which is ironic as fuck.

00:25:43Guest:Exactly.

00:25:44Guest:We said it's ignorant.

00:25:45Guest:Yeah.

00:25:45Guest:But it's like just this guy that just has a simple life.

00:25:48Guest:It's like you're holding on.

00:25:49Guest:If he just adjusted that, just changed one word to love, right?

00:25:54Guest:Right.

00:25:54Guest:Same simple life.

00:25:55Guest:It's just, yeah.

00:25:56Marc:Well, that's the weird thing about that.

00:25:57Marc:And I talked to President Obama, who was sitting right in that chair.

00:26:01Marc:By the way.

00:26:02Marc:Yeah.

00:26:02Marc:That's his cup, yeah.

00:26:03Guest:Is that his cup?

00:26:04Marc:Yeah.

00:26:04Marc:Who else's cup would that be?

00:26:05Guest:It's got the presidential seal on it.

00:26:07Marc:So who brings this in?

00:26:08Marc:A little lady.

00:26:10Marc:She's got a little lady with him.

00:26:11Marc:It's always a little lady.

00:26:12Marc:Yeah.

00:26:12Marc:I don't know if it's always a little lady, but they have a food person.

00:26:16Marc:And she comes.

00:26:16Marc:With his tea.

00:26:17Marc:Yeah.

00:26:18Marc:And it puts that in there when he sits down.

00:26:19Guest:Did you offer?

00:26:20Guest:Yeah.

00:26:21Marc:and you offer it sure and he says uh he he he well she came in before so he was set up he had a water so even even before you get a chance cereal what am i gonna offer him you want a bowl of cereal i got a lot of shit in the house maybe got some bran flakes and raisins you want some of that why not just to see just to see he would have i had a lot more on my mind dude it would be i know by the way how dope that was a great thing yeah that was an amazing thing i was like i i think i was supposed to be here i got bumped for obama

00:26:51Marc:I got bumped by the way.

00:26:52Marc:He told me to book you.

00:26:53Marc:Obama said I'm a fan of that Carmichael kid.

00:26:57Marc:I was like, cool, I've gotten bumped by worse.

00:27:01Marc:That's right, you did get bumped by Obama.

00:27:02Guest:I got bumped by Obama.

00:27:04Guest:I was like, I got bumped by worse, so I can handle that.

00:27:07Marc:So wait, so North Carolina, when did you leave there?

00:27:12Marc:How old were you?

00:27:13Marc:20.

00:27:14Marc:You were 20?

00:27:14Marc:I left.

00:27:15Guest:So you just said, Mom, I'm going?

00:27:16Guest:Yeah, basically.

00:27:18Guest:I was working at a shoe store in Winston-Salem, and a guy came in, and I was thinking about moving to L.A.

00:27:25Guest:I was, once again, going back to wanting to be and entertain.

00:27:28Guest:But what, you were in high school?

00:27:30Guest:Just out of high school.

00:27:31Guest:It's this gray area of just doing nothing.

00:27:33Marc:Sure, sure.

00:27:33Marc:What am I going to do with it?

00:27:34Marc:What am I going to do?

00:27:36Guest:You know, part-time at a shoe store, whatever.

00:27:38Marc:Like shoes, shoes, or sneakers, or real shoes?

00:27:40Marc:Finish line sneakers.

00:27:41Marc:Sneakers.

00:27:42Guest:What do you have on here?

00:27:43Marc:Sandals.

00:27:44Marc:Okay.

00:27:45Marc:I can't give you any information on those.

00:27:47Marc:I'm sorry.

00:27:48Marc:I got nice shoes.

00:27:48Marc:I got boots, man.

00:27:49Marc:I got red wing boots.

00:27:50Guest:I'm a boot guy.

00:27:51Guest:We didn't sell.

00:27:52Guest:You would have hated everything in the store.

00:27:53Marc:If I needed sneakers, I would have been all right.

00:27:55Marc:Yeah.

00:27:56Marc:Was that a mall?

00:27:57Marc:We had a mall.

00:27:58Marc:At a mall.

00:27:59Marc:At a mall.

00:28:00Guest:Small mall.

00:28:01Guest:A decent size mall.

00:28:02Marc:Uh-huh.

00:28:02Guest:Pretty decent sized malt.

00:28:04Marc:So you're eating at the Chick-fil-A?

00:28:05Marc:I'm eating at the Chick-fil-A a lot.

00:28:07Guest:I'm eating at that Chick-fil-A a lot.

00:28:09Guest:There was a Burger King upstairs.

00:28:10Marc:There was a Sheetz.

00:28:12Guest:Sheetz, I don't even know what that is.

00:28:15Guest:I mean, you've been on a- Is that a local chain?

00:28:17Guest:You've driven by one on your way to a hotel somewhere in the middle.

00:28:23Guest:It's a food place.

00:28:24Guest:Some places, a food place and gas station.

00:28:26Marc:I didn't say it was classy.

00:28:28Marc:It's a food court.

00:28:30Guest:So just all of that.

00:28:32Guest:And I was thinking about moving to L.A.

00:28:35Guest:To do comedy.

00:28:36Guest:To do comedy, I wanted to be an entertainer.

00:28:38Guest:I always wanted a show.

00:28:39Guest:That vague, though?

00:28:42Guest:That vague?

00:28:43Guest:Yeah, not specific.

00:28:44Guest:I didn't know I wanted to do stand-up.

00:28:45Guest:You wanted to be in show business.

00:28:46Guest:I wanted to be in show business.

00:28:47Marc:Didn't know you wanted to do stand-up.

00:28:49Guest:Didn't know specifically stand-up.

00:28:51Guest:I thought that it was almost arrogant to just be like, oh, really?

00:28:57Guest:I'm that guy?

00:28:58Guest:Like, oh, I know what funny is.

00:29:00Guest:I'm not one of those guys.

00:29:01Guest:But what did you grow up with?

00:29:02Guest:You got siblings?

00:29:02Guest:Yeah.

00:29:02Guest:I have an older brother.

00:29:04Guest:An older brother, Joe.

00:29:05Guest:What's he do?

00:29:06Guest:Joe is now like a stay-at-home dad.

00:29:09Guest:Really?

00:29:10Guest:Loves it.

00:29:11Marc:Yeah.

00:29:11Guest:Why wouldn't you?

00:29:12Guest:He loves it.

00:29:13Guest:The wife's working?

00:29:14Guest:Wife's working.

00:29:15Guest:My sister-in-law, she's been in the family for so long.

00:29:20Guest:I just say sister.

00:29:21Guest:I look at her as a sister.

00:29:23Guest:And she's working.

00:29:25Guest:She's in education.

00:29:26Guest:Yeah.

00:29:26Guest:nice and how many kids they got smart they have two uh-huh i have a niece and nephew and he's just doing that thing he's yeah and he's like like a great dad which is weird watching your brother be like a great dad how much like the guy he's eight years older than oh really and yeah and so the the guy that used to just punch me in the chest is now eight years older he's punching oh man are you like punishment yeah

00:29:49Guest:He waited till I was three.

00:29:51Guest:Oh, that's good.

00:29:52Guest:In respect to Joe, he waited till I was three to hit me in the chest.

00:29:57Guest:He was 11.

00:29:57Guest:Yeah, he was 11.

00:29:58Marc:So he's just jealous of this little fuck that showed up taking all the attention.

00:30:01Guest:Well, I was also probably, I was a bit over, I was a lot as a kid.

00:30:05Marc:You're a lot as an adult.

00:30:07Marc:For the love of God.

00:30:08Guest:For the love of God.

00:30:10Guest:So, you know, older brother, I wanted to be in showbiz.

00:30:15Guest:A guy comes in, right?

00:30:17Guest:To the store.

00:30:18Guest:To the store.

00:30:18Guest:Yeah.

00:30:20Guest:I don't even know how we got on the conversation.

00:30:22Guest:I think small talk of just what do you do?

00:30:23Guest:Yeah, right.

00:30:24Guest:And he says, oh, I'm an actor out in LA, right?

00:30:27Guest:I don't know what his name is.

00:30:28Guest:I don't know why he was in Winston-Salem.

00:30:29Guest:I don't know if he's from Winston-Salem.

00:30:31Guest:But he said, I said, oh, I was like, oh, that sounds so cool, man.

00:30:35Guest:I was like, I want to, I really want to do that.

00:30:38Guest:And he said, yeah, just move.

00:30:40Guest:I was like, what?

00:30:42Guest:And then he said, I'd never heard of Craigslist.

00:30:44Guest:I'd never heard of Westside Rentals.

00:30:47Guest:He told me, he was like, just go on there and find a place.

00:30:50Guest:I was like, oh.

00:30:51Guest:I saved up what little money I had.

00:30:52Guest:My sister bought me a plane ticket, and I'm in L.A.

00:30:55Guest:in like six months.

00:30:56Marc:Really?

00:30:57Guest:Yeah.

00:30:57Guest:No plans?

00:30:58Guest:No plans.

00:31:00Guest:By that point, I have a great friend, Ashley, who kept saying, it's stand-up.

00:31:07Guest:You have to do stand-up.

00:31:08Guest:This is someone you grew up with?

00:31:09Guest:Someone I went to high school with, grew up with, great friend of mine, and she was very, she was, you have to do stand-up.

00:31:16Guest:Did you listen to stand-up?

00:31:17Guest:Yeah, I loved stand-up.

00:31:18Marc:When you were a kid?

00:31:19Guest:Yeah, prior Cosby.

00:31:21Marc:That was it?

00:31:22Guest:Sinbad.

00:31:23Marc:Yeah, sure.

00:31:24Guest:Carlin.

00:31:25Guest:Yeah.

00:31:26Guest:Louis Black.

00:31:27Guest:Sure.

00:31:28Guest:You know, like the ones that just really stand out.

00:31:31Marc:I like Sinbad's in there.

00:31:32Marc:Sinbad's in there.

00:31:33Marc:Sinbad's in there.

00:31:33Guest:Sinbad, by the way, talk about not writing anything down.

00:31:36Guest:Put on shows, man.

00:31:38Guest:No, big shows.

00:31:39Guest:Sinbad put on shows.

00:31:40Marc:He wore some outfits.

00:31:41Guest:Yeah, my buddy Javar just texted me.

00:31:43Guest:He was just like, hey, man, Sinbad's, I'm watching the Sinbad special, man.

00:31:46Guest:You got to rewatch it.

00:31:48Guest:Yeah.

00:31:48Guest:I haven't watched it in a while.

00:31:49Guest:I saw him at South By.

00:31:51Guest:It just destroys.

00:31:52Guest:Sure.

00:31:52Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:31:53Guest:You know, like just amazing.

00:31:53Marc:Real entertainer, yeah.

00:31:54Guest:Real entertainer.

00:31:55Guest:And so, you know, we watched, you know.

00:31:58Marc:The two sides of that thing are like Sinbad and Cat.

00:32:00Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:01Marc:The guys that just are like, Cat Williams will ramble darkly.

00:32:05Marc:Yeah.

00:32:05Marc:And blow your mind.

00:32:06Marc:And Sinbad's just going to ramble and bring you up.

00:32:08Guest:He's going to bring you up.

00:32:09Guest:He's going to bring you up, man.

00:32:10Guest:It's going to be afros and bell bottles, man.

00:32:14Guest:And just a great entertainer.

00:32:15Guest:And we watched a lot of stand-up.

00:32:17Guest:We were into it, and we really watched.

00:32:20Guest:And my dad was very much so, this is Richard Pryor.

00:32:23Guest:This is why I like him.

00:32:26Guest:oh really your dad would sit down with you and say oh absolutely here's the record let's put on the cd yes and let's listen and why and and because and part a lot of the exploration of my my stand-up is like why the why my family is very much so you know great at articulating why something why they like richard not just he's funny it was like this is why

00:32:48Marc:What'd your old man do?

00:32:50Guest:He's a truck driver.

00:32:51Marc:Okay, so he loves it.

00:32:52Marc:He's in the truck.

00:32:53Marc:He's listening to this shit.

00:32:54Guest:Yeah, he's listening to it all his life.

00:32:55Guest:Yeah, listening to it all his life.

00:32:57Marc:What'd he say to you?

00:32:58Marc:Why?

00:32:59Guest:Because it was important what he was saying.

00:33:03Guest:It was important and it was interesting.

00:33:05Guest:Yeah.

00:33:05Guest:You know what I mean?

00:33:07Guest:And that always stuck with me.

00:33:09Guest:It's just like, I don't want to just say nonsense.

00:33:13Guest:It was important.

00:33:14Marc:Provocative.

00:33:14Guest:Yeah, provocative, but in the best sense of the word.

00:33:17Guest:You know, like going back to what we're saying, not shocking, like genuinely provocative.

00:33:21Guest:A lot of heart.

00:33:22Guest:A lot of heart.

00:33:23Guest:Like the man really exposed his soul when he's up there.

00:33:26Marc:Rough stuff.

00:33:26Guest:Yeah, rough stuff.

00:33:28Guest:And just going there and talking about... Bill Cosby told me about seeing Richard Pryor on stage, which was, by the way, great.

00:33:38Marc:So wait, you had an audience with Bill Cosby?

00:33:41Guest:I went to Bill Cosby's house.

00:33:43Guest:I talked to Bill Cosby.

00:33:43Marc:Before the shit hit the fan?

00:33:44Guest:Before the shit hit the fan, yeah.

00:33:45Marc:So Bill Cosby, how does he reach out to you?

00:33:47Guest:I get a phone call from my agent.

00:33:51Guest:Yeah.

00:33:51Guest:Says, hey, what are you doing tomorrow at three?

00:33:55Guest:Mr. Cosby would like to speak with you.

00:33:57Marc:This is before Hannibal dropped the bomb.

00:33:59Guest:This is before Hannibal dropped the bomb.

00:34:02Marc:Before Hannibal not knowingly.

00:34:03Guest:Unknowingly.

00:34:04Marc:Unknowingly.

00:34:05Guest:Dropped the bomb.

00:34:06Marc:Okay.

00:34:07Marc:But on information that was sort of out there anyway.

00:34:09Marc:Yes.

00:34:10Marc:So, okay.

00:34:10Marc:So you're like, fuck yeah, I'll go talk to Bill Cosby.

00:34:12Guest:Yeah.

00:34:13Guest:Fuck yeah.

00:34:13Guest:Yeah.

00:34:13Guest:It's like, even if I had plans, I'm going to go talk to Bill Cosby.

00:34:15Marc:But that's interesting to me because, you know,

00:34:19Marc:There is a, I think even in your relationship with Spike Lee.

00:34:25Marc:Yes.

00:34:25Marc:That, you know, when they see a guy that's got the juice and that's going to, you know, represent black entertainment on some level.

00:34:34Marc:Yeah.

00:34:34Marc:That they're going to like, well, we're the guys.

00:34:37Marc:We're going to sit this guy down.

00:34:38Guest:There is a bit of responsibility.

00:34:41Marc:Yeah, I agree.

00:34:42Marc:So that was why Cosby, I imagine.

00:34:45Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:34:47Guest:I just signed it.

00:34:48Guest:I mean, I've been in a deal with NBC for years.

00:34:52Guest:So I just signed the deal.

00:34:53Guest:Oh, and he had a deal too.

00:34:55Guest:He had a deal too.

00:34:56Guest:Actually, this was before he had a deal with NBC.

00:34:59Marc:The new deal.

00:35:00Marc:Maybe he saw you as a threat.

00:35:01Marc:Who's this punk?

00:35:02Marc:Let me go see.

00:35:02Marc:Let me go see what the fuck this show's about.

00:35:04Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:05Guest:All right, kid.

00:35:08Guest:And he told me a story about seeing Richard Pryor on stage.

00:35:15Guest:What year?

00:35:17Guest:Like early 70s, I believe.

00:35:19Marc:So when Richard was big or right before?

00:35:21Guest:This was right before.

00:35:22Guest:This was during the transition.

00:35:24Guest:And he said he saw Pryor lose an audience for 35 minutes.

00:35:31Marc:Something that he would never do.

00:35:33Yeah.

00:35:34Guest:Bill, yeah, he always has you.

00:35:36Guest:Prior, he said he saw him not have them, and he said he was just explaining.

00:35:41Guest:He was just explaining stuff for like 35, he was like emotionally explaining, explaining.

00:35:48Marc:Emotionally explaining.

00:35:49Guest:And then at like the 35th minute, he said something clicked, and then he said for the next hour, and this is coming from Bill Cosby, which controversy aside,

00:36:00Guest:I mean, you know, is, you know, Bill Cosby, Bill Cosby.

00:36:03Marc:Right.

00:36:04Guest:And so Bill Cosby, the rapist.

00:36:06Guest:Yes.

00:36:07Guest:Bill Cosby, the comedian, the excellent comedian, Bill Cosby.

00:36:11Guest:He said that he'd never seen someone have an audience eat out of their hand so well for an hour.

00:36:18Marc:Yeah.

00:36:19Guest:For an hour.

00:36:20Guest:Yeah.

00:36:20Marc:What's interesting about Richard Pryor, it seems to, like, even, like, did you read that Scott Saul book?

00:36:25Marc:No, I haven't.

00:36:26Marc:I'll give it to you.

00:36:26Marc:Oh, thank you.

00:36:27Marc:Yeah, thank you.

00:36:27Marc:I would love to.

00:36:28Marc:I got it.

00:36:29Marc:Like, I read it.

00:36:30Marc:But it's, like, it's about that time.

00:36:31Marc:It's only about up to, like, 73 or 74.

00:36:35Marc:It's right up to after when he started making the bad movies.

00:36:39Marc:Like, after his arc.

00:36:40Marc:yeah you know what i mean yeah yeah and and that's where it stops so it's it's it's through oakland through berkeley through you know his transition like it's it's good and it's journalistic he talked to you know family members that were willing to talk like he did his fucking homework oh that's amazing and it's it's an it's a sweet piece of uh of it's a portal into that period of prior because we all make assumptions what the fuck do we know yes

00:37:02Marc:So, like, you know, when he was in Oakland, you know, he was, like, he had thrown away being a Cosby clone, and he wanted to be an artist.

00:37:09Marc:He wanted to be an artist.

00:37:10Marc:But he was doing weird shit, like poetry, you know, and, like, you know, theater stuff.

00:37:14Marc:Like, he was really, it's the 60s, he's going out there.

00:37:17Marc:But even in that documentary recently where he was taping that special, one of the specials, and he did a whole taping, and he said, I didn't do it, I didn't hit it.

00:37:26Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:37:26Marc:It's not.

00:37:27Guest:Well, and, oh, yeah, Mythologic, I mean, bombed.

00:37:30Marc:Right.

00:37:30Guest:first night of his welcome back live on the sunset strip at the palladium right that's it that's the one i'm talking about stevie wonders in the audience right that's what i'm talking about and he's just and it just it just wasn't as nice but because he lives because he puts so much in dude

00:37:46Marc:Like, you know, like, like, you know, there's very few comics and maybe you're one of them.

00:37:50Marc:And, you know, is that every performance is sort of a it's a life or death thing.

00:37:54Marc:It's not you're not going up there protected by an act.

00:37:57Marc:Oh, you're going out there on the fucking ice fly.

00:38:00Guest:Right.

00:38:01Guest:You got to fly.

00:38:02Marc:Yeah.

00:38:02Guest:And if I don't I have to feel connected to what I'm saying or it's just it's just the worst.

00:38:07Marc:It's like you.

00:38:07Marc:It's like you're a zombie.

00:38:09Guest:Yeah, you're not.

00:38:09Guest:Yeah.

00:38:10Guest:Well, I mean, I should have just be in accounting.

00:38:12Guest:If I wanted to just repeat.

00:38:14Marc:Right.

00:38:15Marc:If you don't feel the juice of connection with yourself and the audience.

00:38:20Marc:Yeah.

00:38:20Marc:So what else did Cosby say?

00:38:22Marc:He must have been teaching you a lesson.

00:38:23Marc:He had to school you a little bit.

00:38:25Guest:You know, it was he was I told him about the idea for the show.

00:38:29Guest:Yeah.

00:38:30Guest:He thought that was cool.

00:38:31Guest:We talked about comedy.

00:38:32Guest:We talked about.

00:38:33Guest:I mean, he said he's actually, you know, not anti... He kind of said what we were saying about, like, he just doesn't like shock.

00:38:41Guest:He doesn't like curse words as a crutch as opposed to... Oh, a crutch, right.

00:38:45Guest:Yeah, as opposed to, you know, he's like... Because when you're doing the clubs, you know, late night, you know, sometimes, you know, it's easier to just throw in these words.

00:38:54Guest:And if it's... He's saying as a crutch, he doesn't like it.

00:38:57Marc:Yeah, it was interesting.

00:38:57Marc:Which is right, and, you know... Right, but it was interesting because Cosby defined...

00:39:01Marc:That modern black comic thing that wasn't political, that was family-oriented, that was clean storytelling, but provocative in his own way.

00:39:11Guest:In his own way.

00:39:12Guest:I actually just talked about that with someone recently about how when talking about family, it was kind of provocative when you think about the way he spoke about his children, the way he spoke about it.

00:39:22Guest:It was kind of a raw...

00:39:23Marc:sure and then know a bit is kind of provocative in biblical interpretation yes and for the times and in context but a little harmless but a little harmless because at that time I mean you do have Dick Gregory you know you got Godfrey Cambridge you got people that are you know pushing you know in a different direction yeah but like but the point I was making is at that time even in the late 60s early 70s in Hollywood you know you had you had the Cosby camp but then you had Red Fox who had his own fucking nightclub

00:39:53Marc:Yes.

00:39:54Marc:Like down on like La Cienega or somewhere.

00:39:56Guest:Do you know where it was?

00:39:57Guest:Because I was actually trying to Google this recently because Pryor recorded an album there.

00:40:02Guest:And I was like, where is the club?

00:40:04Guest:I want to know where the club was.

00:40:05Guest:What's the building?

00:40:06Marc:I want to go stand in the building.

00:40:07Marc:I want to go stand in the building.

00:40:08Marc:So now, like given that you had this conversation, like he didn't give you any warnings.

00:40:13Marc:Like he didn't say, you know, be careful of this or that.

00:40:18Marc:He didn't give you any.

00:40:19Marc:Did he give you any wisdom that you were like, oh, yeah, okay.

00:40:22Marc:I'll look out for that shit.

00:40:23Guest:it wasn't it wasn't the kind that we've read about like the one that's just very you know the condescending it wasn't in any sense it was it was almost dare i say in a very respectful way almost just like a meeting and almost on this hey you gotta what do you want to do with your show what do you want to do like yes he asked as many questions were you nervous uh

00:40:46Marc:It was interesting.

00:40:49Guest:I was excited.

00:40:50Guest:I was genuinely excited because he really, once again, I mean, you always have to give the disclaimer now, but controversy aside, just as a performer, just as a television star.

00:41:00Guest:Well, that's a weird thing.

00:41:00Guest:Just as a businessman, you know.

00:41:02Marc:Yeah, it's over for him though now.

00:41:04Marc:Oh, man.

00:41:07Marc:How do you position him in your brain now?

00:41:09Marc:I mean, are you able to keep it separate?

00:41:10Marc:Because I know you do bits on it.

00:41:12Guest:I grew up in an environment, and this isn't to speak to the hood versus, you know, whatever, but I know that my personal experience, I grew up in an environment where you had to extract, you had to separate the two.

00:41:27Marc:Just in humanity and people?

00:41:29Marc:In people.

00:41:29Marc:Like an example?

00:41:32Yeah.

00:41:32Guest:you're my best friend yeah so you know so drugs right he's a liar like you know some of my brother's closest friends have murdered people right and so just this back in the day back in the day right

00:41:47Guest:It's all grown ups now.

00:41:49Guest:The justice system is taking care of what it needed to take care of.

00:41:53Marc:Yeah.

00:41:53Guest:Whatever.

00:41:54Guest:And, you know, and some people, you know, I'm fairly sorry, whatever.

00:41:57Marc:OK.

00:41:58Guest:But you separate from people have done bad things.

00:42:02Guest:This is what I'm saying.

00:42:03Guest:Right.

00:42:04Guest:And this is not the popular opinion.

00:42:06Guest:But I'm.

00:42:07Guest:you you learn to separate to have removed you it's not that you need to associate all the time like some people you don't need to so but just on a purely viewing someone right you you learn to separate the two right and you don't like because sometimes it's for survival so when you when you grow up and you don't and it's not a lot of money right like there may be a guy who's a piece of shit right but he offers something valuable to the group right you

00:42:31Guest:You know what I mean?

00:42:32Guest:It may be like, you know, this guy is a piece of shit, but girls like him.

00:42:37Guest:Right.

00:42:37Guest:And he gets girls.

00:42:38Guest:Right.

00:42:39Guest:So.

00:42:40Guest:Okay.

00:42:40Guest:He can hang out.

00:42:41Guest:He can hang out.

00:42:42Guest:Or this guy's a piece of shit, but he has a car.

00:42:44Marc:Yeah.

00:42:44Marc:Right.

00:42:45Guest:You know what I mean?

00:42:46Guest:It's like, oh, he's an asshole.

00:42:47Marc:It's a stolen car.

00:42:48Guest:It's a stolen car.

00:42:50Guest:And we are all in danger right now.

00:42:52Guest:But he has a car.

00:42:53Guest:You know what I mean?

00:42:54Guest:And so even if it's just a thing that you offer, like when you think about like, you know, it's like a village, right?

00:43:00Guest:Like you think every caveman was just a great guy, the punters.

00:43:03Guest:No, no.

00:43:04Marc:That guy's an asshole, but he'll kill a lion.

00:43:06Guest:Who else knows how to kill lions?

00:43:08Guest:Exactly.

00:43:09Guest:He knows how to kill lions.

00:43:10Guest:The rest of us don't know how to do that.

00:43:12Marc:We're going to have to put up with him.

00:43:13Marc:Sure, he fucked my wife.

00:43:14Marc:Right, yeah.

00:43:15Marc:Yeah, I think that's a lion though.

00:43:17Yeah, I know.

00:43:18Guest:But it's a lion, man.

00:43:20Marc:It's a lion.

00:43:20Guest:You got to think about lions.

00:43:23Guest:But it's that thing of separating.

00:43:25Guest:Not only that.

00:43:26Marc:What about justice?

00:43:28Guest:I mean, here's the thing.

00:43:30Guest:My mom always has this saying.

00:43:32Guest:She says, I don't have a heaven or hell to put you in.

00:43:36Guest:And she says that a lot.

00:43:38Guest:And here's the thing.

00:43:39Guest:What does that mean?

00:43:41Guest:It means this.

00:43:41Guest:It means, once again, it doesn't mean you associate yourself.

00:43:44Guest:You know what I mean?

00:43:45Guest:But it means that.

00:43:46Marc:I'm not God.

00:43:47Guest:I'm not God.

00:43:48Guest:And I'm not.

00:43:48Guest:And where judgment.

00:43:50Guest:Like, I'm not a judge and jury.

00:43:52Guest:And if he like doing anything wrong.

00:43:56Guest:Yeah, that's disgusting.

00:43:57Guest:Yeah.

00:43:58Guest:You feel like you shouldn't have to say it.

00:44:00Guest:But just so it's clear.

00:44:01Marc:Yeah.

00:44:01Guest:Because I'll get a. You're not a fan.

00:44:03Marc:I'll get a tweet.

00:44:05Marc:What you're saying is you're not a fan of Bill Cosby, the rapist.

00:44:07Guest:I'm not a fan of any rape.

00:44:09Guest:I'm not a fan of any horrible, like, that's a disgusting act.

00:44:14Guest:It really is.

00:44:15Guest:It's a disgusting, disgusting act.

00:44:16Guest:I mean, as it's up there with murder, it ruins lives.

00:44:21Guest:And you know what I mean?

00:44:22Guest:Like, and just, you know, knowing women who've gone through that.

00:44:25Guest:Right.

00:44:26Guest:I mean, it's horrible.

00:44:27Guest:Right.

00:44:27Guest:it's absolutely horrible right you know what i mean so it's like in no way am i trying to say you know he gets a pass he gets but he's so great right you know but but but it is but it is a thing where it's like this is horrible this is disgusting but where the level of judgment where i can't you can't and no one should i think like torment themselves with being a judge because like like being a judge takes a lot of weight and there's a lot of pressure and it's a lot of torment if you don't

00:44:53Guest:as my mom would say, have a heaven or hell to put anyone in or a or a cell to put anyone in or whatever.

00:44:59Guest:Now, if you take that up as your cause, that's your right.

00:45:02Guest:That is absolutely your right.

00:45:03Guest:If you want to push toward that justice.

00:45:05Guest:And we all have a bit of a responsibility for that.

00:45:07Guest:Right.

00:45:08Guest:But it's just like, you know, it's one of those things where it's like you can't torment yourself on a personal level with just like, ah, buddy, because Bill Cosby himself is still a great.

00:45:17Marc:Yeah.

00:45:17Marc:Nothing you can do about that.

00:45:18Guest:There's nothing you can do about that.

00:45:19Marc:But Bill Cosby, but here's the fucking difference is that the fact that he hasn't publicly copped to anything is that there's obviously a pathology.

00:45:30Marc:He's got a problem, but Richard Pryor would have talked about it.

00:45:35Marc:Well, Richard...

00:45:36Guest:Like, I doubt he would have done it.

00:45:38Guest:I mean, Rich Fry talking about shooting his wife's car out and just all these things.

00:45:41Guest:Yeah.

00:45:42Guest:He exposed his soul.

00:45:44Guest:I mean, that's the beauty of him.

00:45:45Marc:Yeah, so then it becomes a question.

00:45:46Marc:It's like, this man, Cosby's soul, is in trouble.

00:45:51Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:45:52Guest:What do you have anything to do with?

00:45:53Guest:Nothing.

00:45:54Guest:You know what I mean?

00:45:55Yeah.

00:45:55Guest:You know, like I don't have anything to do with anyone.

00:45:58Marc:So, you know, I have nothing to do with it.

00:46:00Marc:Yeah.

00:46:00Marc:But, you know, but you can have opinions and you can.

00:46:02Marc:Yeah.

00:46:03Guest:And once again, and and hopefully we all have the same opinion.

00:46:06Guest:Sure.

00:46:08Guest:I hope we all have the same opinion on the issue itself.

00:46:11Guest:Just like, oh.

00:46:12Marc:How did your relationship with Spike Lee unfold?

00:46:16Marc:Because he directed the special.

00:46:18Guest:He directed the special.

00:46:18Guest:I wanted someone that could capture a documentary-type feeling.

00:46:24Marc:You reached out to him?

00:46:25Guest:Yes, I called him.

00:46:27Guest:Well, I mean, the Hollywood version, the industry version, rather, of a guy called a guy.

00:46:34Guest:But then, I mean, it became really direct pretty immediately.

00:46:37Marc:What did you think of him as a man?

00:46:38Guest:As a man?

00:46:39Guest:Yeah.

00:46:40Guest:Spike, I really respect—I mean, he's convicted.

00:46:43Guest:Like, he's convicted.

00:46:45Guest:Like, what he believes in, he believes in.

00:46:46Guest:And we had, you know, I mean, I think it was right to share.

00:46:49Guest:Like, we had discussions about things.

00:46:52Marc:Like what?

00:46:52Guest:Like, I mean, in the bit, he was very—

00:46:55Guest:He was very adamant about me not—I opened talking about how, like, with the Trayvon Martin thing and how, like, these horrible things happen, but you don't really care, right?

00:47:06Guest:And we had a disagreement in what the perspective of that was.

00:47:10Guest:I had to explain to him what the perspective was because he took it as—

00:47:14Guest:But people do care.

00:47:15Guest:But I'm like, but do that.

00:47:17Guest:And to me, I say it as a challenge and as a very real, harsh, personal realization of, oh, man, I'm allowing life to go on.

00:47:27Guest:And I'm not saying you should.

00:47:28Guest:I'm just saying it's a reality of a lot of times these tragedies happen.

00:47:33Marc:It's about social responsibility.

00:47:34Guest:social responsibility and that's what the bit's about and we had great conversations about it just talking about like yeah this is what i meant by that this is why i said it this but he was honest and he was open with it and you know like and and he was very much so like yeah there are a few things so so his his angle was is it not irresponsible for you to to say that nobody cares yeah to say that nobody cares and i said i think it's irresponsible of me not to say that right

00:48:00Guest:Because because it's like no.

00:48:02Guest:And because most people, it's not my life.

00:48:04Guest:Yeah, that's most people.

00:48:06Guest:Right.

00:48:06Guest:And once again, going back to even what we're just talking about, like, I mean, at some point you do have to take some type of social responsibility.

00:48:12Guest:And there are certain there are things that we can change and we need to actively change.

00:48:16Guest:That's why I said it, because it's this challenge.

00:48:18Guest:And if it made you feel like, well, I do care out the hope and the intention was that people if it if you thought I was wrong about it, that it wouldn't that it would motivate.

00:48:28Marc:Well, what was the community of your childhood?

00:48:35Guest:Lower class, people doing things they needed to survive, factory-type jobs, that type of thing.

00:48:44Marc:But working class.

00:48:46Marc:Working class.

00:48:46Marc:Was not like a ghetto situation.

00:48:50Guest:No.

00:48:51Guest:Hard to know.

00:48:52Guest:Where's the line?

00:48:53Guest:I don't know.

00:48:54Guest:I mean, were people selling drugs?

00:48:56Guest:Sure.

00:48:56Guest:That was the neighborhood.

00:48:58Guest:Here's the thing.

00:48:59Guest:If I didn't grow up in the ghetto, if it wasn't the ghetto, then, I mean, someone needs to change the wallpaper.

00:49:06Guest:Because it's looking a lot.

00:49:08Guest:You know what I mean?

00:49:09Guest:It's like, who am I?

00:49:11Guest:Here's the thing.

00:49:12Guest:I don't want to label it.

00:49:13Marc:Right.

00:49:13Guest:Because I would love for it not to have been.

00:49:17Marc:Like, were you in danger many times?

00:49:19Yeah.

00:49:20Guest:so so hey yeah i don't know yeah who knows right you know what i mean like where their drive-bys of like across the street from my house directly across yeah okay so i mean here's the thing to some people that sounds like a vacation spot and that's not a not a ghetto right to me not so much you know it's like you grow up with a real once again like a real life

00:49:43Guest:But with that said, I also don't want to make it sound like it was just the worst.

00:49:49Guest:There are worse places.

00:49:50Marc:But it's interesting, getting back to Spike's point, is that if you grow up in that type of community where it's not unusual for that kind of shit to happen,

00:50:00Marc:yeah you know like i guess maybe what he was trying to address and i don't know was that um you know we can't you know speaking i would say as him is that you know black people can't disassociate yeah is that so so here's the thing yeah uh

00:50:19Guest:there as a black person as black comic yeah uh there there are so many rules right and there's a difference between are there there are there are because unspoken unspoken like really like like what it's saying that i'm as a black comic especially i'm not supposed to say that you know what i mean like that's not a thing that i'm supposed is that where spike was coming from

00:50:46Guest:Yeah.

00:50:46Guest:Right.

00:50:47Guest:It's like you're not supposed to say this.

00:50:49Guest:And and and part of like, listen, not to sound like, well, this is my but but I do want to contribute to not only comedy, not only the you know, like the the artist experience.

00:51:00Guest:Yeah.

00:51:00Guest:But you want to contribute and push every experience further.

00:51:03Guest:So part of my job is to to.

00:51:06Guest:But say those things that are true that I'm not supposed to say to break that rule is part of my responsibility, because because it's inhibiting.

00:51:18Guest:It's inhibiting the art.

00:51:19Guest:It's inhibiting the consciousness to to to not say these things to not.

00:51:24Guest:You know what I mean?

00:51:25Guest:So I have to.

00:51:26Marc:Right.

00:51:26Marc:But it's also interesting that your trajectory was not the standard black comic trajectory.

00:51:33Marc:You didn't come out of black clubs.

00:51:35Marc:No.

00:51:36Marc:Yeah, no.

00:51:37Marc:So you were able to have this thought provoking exchange with a mixed audience, if not white leaning audience.

00:51:44Marc:Yeah.

00:51:45Guest:Most of the time.

00:51:46Guest:Yeah.

00:51:46Guest:And when you're at the store, you're at the improv, you know, it's not it's not all black audiences.

00:51:51Guest:And by the way, I mean, love.

00:51:53Guest:I love when it's when I whenever I'm in front of a black audience, there is a certain amount of like comfort and like excitement of just like, oh, great.

00:52:02Guest:You know, I can really do it.

00:52:04Guest:Yeah, we can really go for it.

00:52:05Guest:Because the whole thing, I really believe my purpose is to contribute to expanding consciousness.

00:52:13Guest:Especially within art.

00:52:15Guest:You try and let it go, let it permeate and go beyond that.

00:52:19Guest:But it's to expand consciousness.

00:52:21Guest:And everything that I do is rooted in that.

00:52:24Guest:Saying these things that you're not supposed to say but are honest.

00:52:29Guest:Even the way we shot and did the special.

00:52:31Guest:All of that was...

00:52:32Guest:To expand consciousness.

00:52:34Marc:When did this idea, this vision of yours take hold?

00:52:40Marc:I mean, like it wasn't at the shoot store.

00:52:42Marc:So when did you start to acknowledge the idea of art?

00:52:47Guest:It's a thing that I've always respected, right?

00:52:49Guest:The things that I always gravitate toward are the things that mean something, that kind of mean something and help expand consciousness, right?

00:52:56Guest:Even before wanting to do- Like what?

00:52:58Guest:Even at the shoe store.

00:53:00Guest:The reason I always watch the Daily Show is because Jon Stewart, I think, genuinely does a service to society.

00:53:06Guest:Right.

00:53:07Guest:Because it's the source of news for people.

00:53:11Marc:Cutting through hypocrisy.

00:53:12Marc:Cutting through hypocrisy.

00:53:13Marc:And getting to the truth.

00:53:16Guest:Yes.

00:53:16Guest:And informing people.

00:53:18Guest:Because it is a thing where, you know, if you try and read about, you know, what's happening in politics through the Associated Press, it's not as clear as Jon Stewart explaining it to you at 11 o'clock.

00:53:31Marc:Or Rachel Maddow.

00:53:32Marc:yeah yeah it's john stewart it's clear and it's humorous right and it's and it's like this that's what art is to me it is medicine and applesauce because it's it's fun and it's but it's it really is saying makes people see things differently so like so like you want to blow minds like you know you got people walk through life every day and all of a sudden you make them think of things like you just tweak the knob a little yeah like i never thought about that yes i'm responsible

00:53:56Guest:the expansion of consciousness okay you know what i mean like and those are the things that i've always gravitated toward it's the you know it it's always a thing because because other once again what looks good in a time capsule right you know what what deserves to be in a time capsule you know like and that's that's always been where my my head is even in the in what i would watch and how i spend my time and just in self-education it's always like let's read the guys that lasted let's read the guys that mattered let's like who

00:54:26Guest:Let's start at Frank O'Hara.

00:54:28Guest:Frank O'Hara is this poet from the New York School of Poetry.

00:54:36Guest:The way he structured poems, the way he did things, it mattered.

00:54:39Marc:It influenced people.

00:54:40Marc:I think he was the Poet Laureate for a while, wasn't he?

00:54:43Guest:Yeah.

00:54:44Guest:My favorite poem is My Heart by Frank O'Hara.

00:54:48Guest:I'm not going to cry all the time.

00:54:49Guest:I'm not going to laugh all the time.

00:54:52Guest:I wanted to read all of this, like anything that I could, anything I can get my hands on.

00:54:57Guest:Did you?

00:54:58Guest:Yeah, as much as I could.

00:54:59Guest:I'm just at Barnes and Noble.

00:55:01Marc:Sure.

00:55:02Guest:That was like, you know.

00:55:02Marc:Sitting there.

00:55:03Guest:It's the same thing with like art.

00:55:04Guest:I went into the Whitney.

00:55:06Guest:The new one?

00:55:07Guest:Yeah, the new one.

00:55:08Marc:Nice, right?

00:55:08Marc:It's really, really nice.

00:55:09Marc:That was a great exhibit, that one they got up.

00:55:11Guest:was their collection through the years right just yeah yeah yeah i just saw it it's fantastic amazing it's fantastic goes through the protests through the periods yeah yeah all the different types of art yes and then like the 60s and the 70s it's amazing yeah it's amazing yeah so i brought that up to say like the same thing with like poetry anything it's like it's always dangerous territory because then i then i don't want to go to i you know that the classic i don't i don't know art but i know what i like all i know is my interpretation but that's all you need

00:55:38Marc:No, I mean, that comes back to the same thing of, you know, what you do on stage is if you're honest.

00:55:44Marc:The thing is, you know, there's always going to be people with an education or intellectuals that are going to question your reaction to it because they're going to put it into a different context.

00:55:54Marc:But the pure reaction of somebody who's just sort of like, I want to feed my head.

00:55:58Marc:Yeah.

00:55:59Marc:And you have that thing hit you like that.

00:56:00Marc:Yeah.

00:56:01Marc:That's honest.

00:56:01Marc:Yeah, that's honest.

00:56:02Marc:And then if you want to chase it down the pipe and learn more shit about where it came from or who that guy was, that's another expedition.

00:56:08Marc:That's a whole other thing, yes.

00:56:11Guest:And you can choose to go down that route.

00:56:13Guest:Sure, and ruin it for yourself.

00:56:14Guest:Yeah, and ruin it for yourself.

00:56:16Guest:And just, that's a whole, you got to go to college again.

00:56:20Guest:Yeah.

00:56:20Guest:It's a whole lifestyle change.

00:56:22Guest:But just reading, just reading, reading, educating, just trying to educate yourself.

00:56:28Guest:Feed your head.

00:56:29Guest:Feeding your head.

00:56:30Marc:Because those things, especially if you're not, and most people aren't educated in poetry or contextualizing O'Hara and where he came from poetically, that if you just deal with the meat of his expression or the painting, like sometimes when paintings are supposed to be provocative in the same way you do comedy, it's nice to know the movement.

00:56:50Marc:that these motherfuckers were trying to turn it upside down.

00:56:52Guest:If you go to a Caravaggio exhibit, right?

00:56:56Guest:Yeah.

00:56:57Guest:If you see it, you need to know the context of the movement.

00:56:59Guest:You need to know that a lot of the art is in the shadows.

00:57:03Marc:Sure.

00:57:03Guest:Yeah, Caravaggio is sort of like, oh, there, look at that dude.

00:57:07Guest:Yeah, I went to Kevin Christie.

00:57:09Guest:We went to LACMA, and he just basically- Oh, he schooled you?

00:57:12Guest:He schooled me.

00:57:13Guest:And it was like, oh, and you learn the context.

00:57:16Guest:He schooled me on the context.

00:57:18Guest:Uh-huh.

00:57:18Guest:of art and and so and so it's like with comedy with all of it i just i'm i'm interested in where i stand in art sure you know what i mean like like it beyond comedy yeah you know like it's it's i mean just look at what this show is right you have the president of the united states yeah yeah this isn't just you know what i mean this isn't just like you know like and my favorite thing reading and when the president was there is just like they have to deal with you now

00:57:46Guest:Yeah.

00:57:47Guest:You know what I mean?

00:57:48Guest:Like, it's like, it's like, and just like writing about like, just a thing.

00:57:51Guest:First of all, it hasn't been, you know, in the context of especially comedy.

00:57:58Guest:Yeah.

00:57:58Guest:It hasn't been a little thing since it started.

00:58:01Guest:Right.

00:58:01Guest:But then, and then, and then you just watch it grow and you watch it grow and you watch it grow and they have to deal with you.

00:58:07Guest:And now even this show itself is in the context of art is in the context of, of, of journalism in the context of, you know,

00:58:15Guest:documenting things so it's like it's like this show exists in that context now and i want my stand-up i want my whatever to exist in art right you know what i mean and so and so you need to read read about artists you need to explore art yeah explore sure man and the art of everything sure man you know and not just poets and painters there's a art i would argue there's an art to be in a reality star

00:58:38Guest:I'm not sure they're aware of that.

00:58:42Guest:But here's the thing.

00:58:43Guest:I've actually got an argument.

00:58:44Marc:You're going to have to contextualize that.

00:58:46Guest:Contextualizing Kim Kardashian to even the way Paris Hilton did it.

00:58:52Guest:Sure.

00:58:53Guest:Fewer mistakes.

00:58:54Guest:Smarter about it.

00:58:55Guest:Capitalizing off every nook and cranny of it.

00:58:59Guest:But.

00:59:00Marc:But, okay, I understand what you're saying, but I think there's a skill set and craft and also putting ambition together with how to get your hustle on to make a few bucks.

00:59:13Marc:But you're talking about expanding consciousness.

00:59:15Marc:I don't know if that... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:17Guest:No, but I'm just saying... But that is a skill.

00:59:20Guest:Here's the thing.

00:59:21Guest:Whether we like to admit it or not, Kim Kardashian is going to be remembered...

00:59:26Marc:Okay, but that's different.

00:59:27Guest:Explored.

00:59:28Guest:But hold on.

00:59:29Guest:The phenomenon is.

00:59:30Guest:The phenomenon is going to be explored.

00:59:33Guest:Which then, I mean, to a certain degree, I don't even like to say, but it influences.

00:59:38Guest:Sure.

00:59:39Guest:You know what I mean?

00:59:39Guest:It influences.

00:59:40Guest:And so, like...

00:59:42Guest:Being influential is a part of art.

00:59:44Marc:That's a big part of it.

00:59:46Marc:But still, for what I'm hearing.

00:59:48Guest:It is a skill set.

00:59:49Guest:I know what you're saying.

00:59:51Marc:I'm not arguing.

00:59:52Marc:I'm just saying that there is something about being remembered and historical.

00:59:57Marc:You can do that by not expanding any consciousness at all.

01:00:01Marc:And actually, if you do, it might be in the wrong direction.

01:00:03Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:00:06Marc:And then there's the idea of art to expand consciousness.

01:00:09Marc:And I think what you're saying is you'd like to expand consciousness, but you'd like to be well-known for it.

01:00:14Guest:Yes.

01:00:15Guest:Yes.

01:00:15Guest:Thank you very much.

01:00:19Marc:So I just want to make sure I separate you from Kim Kardashian out of respect for you.

01:00:23Guest:I really appreciate that.

01:00:25Guest:I really appreciate that.

01:00:26Guest:But when I'm saying the art of anything is just really within anything in context, just getting the most out of it.

01:00:36Marc:No, no, I get it.

01:00:37Marc:I get that for anybody to rise out of whatever their life is and have an impact at all and a lasting one requires some set of skills of some kind, whether they're good or bad or whatever.

01:00:53Marc:i get that yeah and and and and for you to make the impact that you want to make you know you're still gonna have to trust yourself and and and the machines that are in place because it becomes that thing where you make a choice not to do a four and a half minute set because you don't represent yourself if all of a sudden you know you get big and they're like well we need that four four and a half minute set and you're like i think i can do it now yeah

01:01:16Guest:Oh, you'll see a lot of that.

01:01:20Guest:You'll see a lot of that.

01:01:22Guest:Cut to me just in a suit.

01:01:25Guest:It's a lot of money.

01:01:28Marc:It's a concession.

01:01:29Marc:It's a Faustian deal.

01:01:30Marc:Hey, look, the NBC show, we picked it up, but it's not doing great.

01:01:35Marc:We need you to go on this reality show.

01:01:38Guest:To do a little...

01:01:39Guest:It's like you maintain your integrity as an artist and you try and do things that make sense.

01:01:45Guest:Listen, the reason I wanted to work with NBC is because it's such a machine.

01:01:49Guest:Sure.

01:01:49Guest:It's such a huge machine, but I really think you can get something good and interesting.

01:01:54Marc:A lot of people have said that.

01:01:55Guest:Yeah, a lot of people said that.

01:01:57Marc:A lot of people, they're no longer in the business.

01:02:00Guest:I know, I know, I know, right?

01:02:02Guest:As I prepare for battle, I put it on armor, suiting up, just like, all right, you guys.

01:02:08Guest:People watch, and they're just like, well, you talk about art a lot.

01:02:12Marc:Let's see what the fuck this is.

01:02:14Marc:You're sitting there shooting your mouth off to suits about Caravaggio.

01:02:17Marc:About Caravaggio.

01:02:18Marc:What do we got here with this kid?

01:02:19Guest:They're like, we're trying to sell Charmin.

01:02:21Marc:Yeah, that's it.

01:02:22Marc:yeah which is the battle but when you got here like i like i hadn't like it was like there was a lot of a lot of my peers who i hadn't seen you yet you know because i don't know like maybe you've gone later than me or i wasn't going out to the clubs as much but a lot of my guys like uh you know like kevin and al magical and brennan you know all these guys are like this dude this dude's a miracle i don't know where he came out of the clouds and i'm like who the fuck is this kid

01:02:50Marc:I've never seen anything like it.

01:02:51Marc:I'm like, I've been doing comedy 25 years.

01:02:52Marc:I've never seen anything like this guy.

01:02:54Marc:And I'm like, where is he?

01:02:56Marc:And Neil's like, he's on my couch.

01:02:57Marc:I'm like, what?

01:02:58Guest:Yeah, that's pretty accurate.

01:03:03Marc:The second coming's on your couch?

01:03:04Marc:I know, I know, man.

01:03:06Marc:What the hell happened?

01:03:08Marc:So you get to LA and when did you, what was the first set?

01:03:11Marc:Where'd you do it?

01:03:13Guest:First set was at the comedy store.

01:03:14Guest:First time ever doing stand up on Sunday.

01:03:18Guest:In your life?

01:03:19Guest:Ever in my life.

01:03:20Guest:Okay.

01:03:21Guest:How long have you been doing it now?

01:03:23Guest:started in 2008 almost 7 years I would tell people I would just lie people would say how long have you been doing stand up a couple years because I didn't want the crutch so you created a mythology for yourself a couple years just very vague about it where did you start in North Carolina I never did it before in my life that's why you didn't talk to people

01:03:52Guest:Get in and out.

01:03:53Guest:Get in and out.

01:03:54Guest:They're on to you.

01:03:55Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:03:56Guest:Because I didn't want that, like, not bad.

01:04:00Guest:I judged it honestly as a set.

01:04:02Guest:Right.

01:04:02Guest:Just as a set.

01:04:03Guest:Right.

01:04:03Guest:Because it may be better than, you know what I mean?

01:04:07Guest:How'd you prepare for that first set?

01:04:09Guest:Just the same way I prepared for this one.

01:04:12Marc:But you had some ideas.

01:04:13Marc:You didn't go.

01:04:13Guest:So a couple ideas, a couple thoughts.

01:04:15Guest:Go up first at the open mic.

01:04:17Guest:No audience members.

01:04:19Guest:Comics in the back.

01:04:20Guest:The sun is shining through that window.

01:04:24Marc:It's not an easy room either.

01:04:25Guest:Not an easy room.

01:04:26Marc:Which is what I wanted to do especially because it's first place ever.

01:04:29Marc:Hit or miss, dude.

01:04:29Guest:Hit or miss.

01:04:30Guest:Easily.

01:04:31Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:04:31Marc:Easily.

01:04:32Guest:They're not going to indulge too much bullshit.

01:04:34Guest:It really is.

01:04:35Guest:And I know comics say it, but it...

01:04:36Marc:it really is one of the hardest like by hard meaning it is something you have to figure out every night it keeps you on your toes well you got like the first trick of that original room is like how the fuck am I gonna get comfortable in here yes and like cause it'll that place will pull it'll bring your fear right to the surface so you have to battle your fear for however long it's gonna take for you to be like I own this stage now there is a table at your feet oh I know you know what I mean like there's a table and if the lights are right you can't see much past that table yes

01:05:06Guest:And now that food is served there, people are eating nachos.

01:05:09Guest:Garbage.

01:05:10Guest:Yeah, eating garbage.

01:05:13Guest:You know what I mean?

01:05:14Guest:It's a lot to try.

01:05:15Marc:And it's just like there's a rawness there.

01:05:17Marc:That room is like, there's a couple of rooms that are, despite their reputation, are hard as fuck.

01:05:23Marc:The Comedy Cellar is another one.

01:05:24Marc:Hard as fuck.

01:05:25Marc:Love it.

01:05:25Marc:Yeah.

01:05:26Marc:Love it.

01:05:26Marc:But once you pop that place, you're like, fuck, I'm not afraid of anything.

01:05:30Guest:Yes.

01:05:31Guest:Oh, and then the Comedy Cellar momentum is great.

01:05:36Guest:Some of my favorite moments in stand-up is also like going, it's like after Che and Louie at the cellar, and then you're up.

01:05:46Guest:And once again, where do you fit in this space?

01:05:49Marc:You know what I mean?

01:05:50Marc:Well, you better make them know you really quick.

01:05:52Marc:You better hit right out of the gate.

01:05:54Guest:You don't have a fucking chance.

01:05:56Guest:That first one goes in the toilet.

01:05:57Guest:Yeah, yeah, it's like, ah.

01:05:59Guest:It's over.

01:05:59Guest:You know what I mean?

01:06:00Guest:Like, you know, that's what I love.

01:06:02Guest:That's what I loved about following Dane when you're at the factory and all these things, because it's like you bet like you're just when you're starting out, you're just this unknown person.

01:06:11Marc:Right.

01:06:11Guest:Nobody's there to see you, but but you have the heat or whatever.

01:06:14Guest:And so you're on these shows.

01:06:16Marc:Right.

01:06:16Marc:And you got to know that the biggest trick is like, you know, you learn it like once or twice where you're like, I'm going to follow that dude.

01:06:21Marc:He's got that energy.

01:06:22Marc:I'm just going to go full on.

01:06:24Marc:And then it's like, that didn't work.

01:06:25Marc:No.

01:06:26Marc:So then eventually you're just sort of like, I'm going to suck it right down to me.

01:06:29Marc:Truth.

01:06:29Marc:Wait.

01:06:30Marc:Truth.

01:06:31Marc:Wait.

01:06:32Marc:You're good at that.

01:06:33Marc:Bill Burr's good at that.

01:06:36Marc:Well, you know, it's like, you know, I might have to eat it for six.

01:06:39Guest:maybe maybe yeah you know what i mean but it's like this has to be me it's like every home you know i walk into you gotta redecorate it man you gotta adjust that's right you gotta do it quick you gotta do it quick just by standing there just by standing there just by your energy just unspoken yeah you have to do it that is that's the that is that crucial moment where it's like if you let fear win in that moment it can be a long oh yeah long 15 minutes the world

01:07:04Guest:The longest 15 minutes of your life.

01:07:07Marc:You are up there.

01:07:08Guest:You're just sitting there.

01:07:09Guest:You're waiting for a green light over to your left.

01:07:11Guest:Please.

01:07:12Guest:You're just waiting.

01:07:13Guest:How much long?

01:07:14Guest:How long have I been here?

01:07:16Guest:Yeah.

01:07:16Guest:You know, and of course, those are the nights when the next guy's not there yet.

01:07:20Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:07:21Guest:Now I got to do 20.

01:07:22Marc:Yeah, I've been up here a while.

01:07:23Marc:I got to do 21.

01:07:24Marc:And you know what's amazing about that feeling?

01:07:26Marc:It can always happen.

01:07:27Guest:It can always happen.

01:07:29Guest:Always happen.

01:07:29Guest:Tuesday or Saturday.

01:07:31Guest:It could always happen.

01:07:32Marc:Especially in the OR.

01:07:32Marc:You're like, that's all I'm getting.

01:07:34Marc:Nothing can get in.

01:07:35Marc:It's not going to go higher than that.

01:07:36Marc:The place is full.

01:07:37Marc:Yes.

01:07:37Guest:It's packed.

01:07:38Guest:It's packed.

01:07:39Guest:That's what I love about the OR.

01:07:41Guest:The OR could be full and dead.

01:07:43Guest:Yeah.

01:07:44Guest:It's crazy.

01:07:45Marc:Usually.

01:07:45Marc:What is that?

01:07:46Guest:Under most circumstances.

01:07:48Guest:What is that?

01:07:48Guest:Just by the nature of the room being.

01:07:51Guest:People.

01:07:52Guest:Yeah.

01:07:52Guest:A room full of people.

01:07:54Guest:Any other place, you're going to get something.

01:07:58Guest:The OR can be packed to the brim.

01:08:00Marc:Nothing.

01:08:01Marc:Yeah.

01:08:01Marc:The worst.

01:08:02Marc:They're just sitting there.

01:08:03Marc:You're like, what is the fucking dark?

01:08:05Marc:I believe the building on certain nights has a mood to it.

01:08:07Marc:Yes.

01:08:09Marc:Hey.

01:08:09Marc:Yes.

01:08:10Marc:Yeah, I know.

01:08:11Marc:Absolutely.

01:08:12Guest:The OR shifts with the moon.

01:08:13Guest:Yeah, man.

01:08:14Guest:It shifts with something.

01:08:15Guest:It shifts with something.

01:08:18Guest:But it keeps you on your toes.

01:08:19Guest:And you've got to adjust that energy.

01:08:21Guest:So I'm there.

01:08:21Guest:I'm up first.

01:08:23Guest:Open mic.

01:08:24Guest:Do it.

01:08:25Guest:Love it.

01:08:25Guest:No, it goes hard.

01:08:28Marc:But you got the bug.

01:08:29Marc:I'm excited.

01:08:29Guest:I'm excited to share thoughts.

01:08:32Marc:You know what I mean?

01:08:33Guest:I'm excited to share thoughts.

01:08:34Guest:I'm excited to say, hey, this is how I feel about this thing.

01:08:38Guest:Hey, do you not feel that way?

01:08:40Guest:Great, because I want to talk about it.

01:08:42Guest:I'm excited.

01:08:43Marc:And when did people start noticing you?

01:08:46Marc:Because it was the store guys, right?

01:08:48Marc:Like Neil and Al.

01:08:49Guest:Yeah, oh man, Neil and Al and Brett, you know, like genuinely amazing.

01:08:54Guest:Argus!

01:08:55Guest:You know what I mean?

01:08:56Guest:And Bill!

01:08:57Guest:I mean, Burr, you know, was very... I mean, he said very... He gave some very nice compliments to me early on in my career.

01:09:05Guest:And, you know, it was just do those cosigns in front of, you know, at the time, Tommy at the comedy store, just like...

01:09:12Marc:put this kid up yeah you know like and so i mean i'll you know very very blessed just to have like people yeah it was pretty astounding yeah because like you know i'm a cynical fuck so like you know when everybody starts you know talking about this kid carmark i'm like what i can't what how could it i've seen this happen before it was it's patrice

01:09:32Guest:yeah uh you know and this is wait you got to talk to patrice i got to talk to patrice that must have been something one of the most amazing one of the most amazing it really was it was one of those like who the fuck you think you are so he uh neil i i can't remember if it was neil or ian because uh uh or ian edwards that introduced me to patrice on the patio outside the store and he said uh what was he doing out here so he was out of place

01:09:57Guest:He was out, yeah, he was here for a few days for some meetings.

01:10:00Marc:Holding up the patio?

01:10:01Guest:Yeah, just holding up the patio.

01:10:02Marc:Holding up court.

01:10:02Guest:Saying like, who are these fucking people?

01:10:04Guest:Holding up court.

01:10:04Guest:There's a line.

01:10:06Guest:You know, I'm with a friend of, like, I think it was Neil, or it may have been Ian.

01:10:09Guest:I don't know.

01:10:10Guest:But either way, they say, hey, have you met Gerard?

01:10:13Guest:And the first thing he said, oh, yeah, I heard of you.

01:10:16Guest:You supposed to be that next nigga.

01:10:18Ha, ha, ha.

01:10:19Guest:Supposed to be that next Chappelle nigga.

01:10:22Guest:And that's what he said to me.

01:10:24Guest:And then he talked to me for 30 minutes.

01:10:26Guest:I mean, it's really a blessing.

01:10:27Guest:I had some great conversations with like that.

01:10:29Marc:He's like, you know, it's like, you know, there's like the beauty of Patrice was it's sort of like, you know, I feel good talking to him.

01:10:36Marc:It's going right into me, but I'm not sure it's right.

01:10:38Yeah.

01:10:38Guest:but it's honest he's not lying to you he's telling his truth it was honestly and this is the only conversation I've ever had with him 30 minutes and I remember it because it's the first time I ever missed a show couldn't stop talking I was on my way to a spot and here's the thing I'm not even gonna pull that whole I just knew because I didn't know I just for whatever reason couldn't walk away couldn't even do the polite like I gotta run

01:11:07Guest:And I'm sure he would have understood.

01:11:08Guest:I stood there and I just missed my spot.

01:11:10Guest:I'm, you know, obviously given the context of this was pretty close to when he went to the hospital.

01:11:17Guest:Like this is like months before.

01:11:18Guest:So like obviously you're like, oh, well, thank God that I did.

01:11:22Guest:But very kind of a vulnerable conversation.

01:11:25Marc:He was a it was a it was a weird sort of it was exciting to be around that guy.

01:11:31Guest:yeah and there's not a lot of guys yeah he was so he talked about mistakes that he made yeah he talked about it once again same thing with it wasn't that like let me tell you something right it was like this is my experience it was very much so they you know it was met with this level of like respect it was it's never I you know I've been really blessed to like for whatever reason people just approach with this level of like honest like respect and like this is what I went through and I really appreciate that

01:12:00Marc:I think there's a brotherhood to comics, you know, and I think that comics, especially guys in my generation and sometimes older, but they get a little detached.

01:12:08Marc:But guys who are still in the in the, you know, at the clubs and stuff.

01:12:11Marc:Yeah.

01:12:12Marc:That when they see something or they feel talent, they feel like you're one of us, that they're they're decent fucking dudes that, you know, they're sort of like, you know, what can I do to help this guy?

01:12:22Marc:Yeah, because he's good for us and he's great at what he does and he makes it, you know, you know, we believe in comedy.

01:12:28Guest:Yeah, I mean, down to, Neil Brennan gave me shoes.

01:12:32Guest:You know what I mean?

01:12:32Guest:Like, Al Madrigal gave me clothes, and some of my first paying gigs, Brett Ernst would just slide me cash to eat.

01:12:41Marc:Oh, really?

01:12:41Marc:You know what I mean?

01:12:42Marc:Yeah, so you came out here, you didn't do the Craigslist, you didn't have a place to live.

01:12:45Guest:i found a i lived on a on a love seat for a month then i moved into a studio apartment with four people we shared small like i mean just the most uncomfortable couch lived on couches like that type of thing i didn't have a day job here it really is by the grace of god that you know but i only thought i focused on comedy i focused on just like like you didn't give a fuck about the day job no day job no no day what's the point

01:13:10Marc:No, why?

01:13:11Marc:That's not what I want to do.

01:13:12Guest:Right.

01:13:12Guest:And here's the thing.

01:13:13Guest:And I mean, it's a blessing to be able to do it.

01:13:16Guest:And people were very like, you know, I mean, I think about that a lot, man.

01:13:20Guest:Just like, you know, like Neil and Brent and all these guys that just believe in you.

01:13:24Marc:Yeah.

01:13:24Guest:You know, like early on, like, you know, and it's just I mean, it's so beautiful.

01:13:28Marc:I've never seen anything like it, really.

01:13:31Marc:Like, just like.

01:13:32Marc:No, and it was a beautiful thing, you know, and to hear you tell it was that they knew your talent, they knew your commitment.

01:13:39Guest:Dove Davidoff and Brian Callen bought me a car.

01:13:42Guest:You know what I'm saying?

01:13:44Guest:I mean, just like genuine belief.

01:13:48Marc:You better not let us down.

01:13:50Guest:I was like, man, if I fuck this up, you know what I mean?

01:13:52Guest:It was like, all right.

01:13:54Guest:It's like, you better focus on comedy.

01:13:56Guest:You know what I mean?

01:13:57Guest:Because it's just like, even if not for yourself, for them.

01:14:01Guest:Right.

01:14:02Guest:These beautiful people just really believed in you and looked out.

01:14:06Marc:Yeah, that's a sweet story, man.

01:14:07Guest:Yeah, it's amazing.

01:14:08Guest:And it worked out.

01:14:09Guest:Oh, man.

01:14:10Marc:You got a place to live now?

01:14:11Guest:I'm doing all right.

01:14:12Guest:You can buy your own pants.

01:14:13Guest:Doing okay.

01:14:13Marc:I got a couple pair now.

01:14:17Marc:What is the NBC show?

01:14:19Marc:When's it happening?

01:14:19Marc:Doing how many?

01:14:21Marc:We're doing five more episodes.

01:14:22Guest:We did a pilot and then five more episodes.

01:14:23Marc:Six total.

01:14:24Marc:Six total.

01:14:24Marc:You're going to run the pilot.

01:14:26Guest:We're going to run the pilot.

01:14:26Guest:They love the pilot.

01:14:28Guest:Who knows how they feel about the pilot.

01:14:30Marc:NBC.

01:14:30Guest:You don't know?

01:14:32Guest:Listen, you assume love.

01:14:33Guest:I don't think love has anything to do with any of it.

01:14:36Marc:So you haven't had to fight any fights yet.

01:14:38Guest:Oh, it's always a fight.

01:14:39Marc:I mean, with the suits, too, on the strip level?

01:14:41Guest:Oh, yeah, absolutely.

01:14:42Marc:It's always a fight.

01:14:43Guest:I mean, here's the thing.

01:14:44Guest:And I don't even want to make it sound like it's only contention because, I mean, like you said with the Letterman, there are some great notes.

01:14:53Guest:There are some...

01:14:54Guest:oh yeah, this makes the story better.

01:14:56Guest:You can't just be like, they don't know anything.

01:14:58Guest:People that really believe in the idea and like really, so I don't want to make it seem like us versus just that.

01:15:03Guest:But it is, you're trying to change perspective, consciousness, or way something's perceived, what something can be, what you can say, what you can't say, you know, and battling that, it's like to change habits is the hardest thing.

01:15:17Marc:What's the world?

01:15:19Guest:I live with my girlfriend.

01:15:22Guest:It's based on my family.

01:15:23Guest:Because what's interesting about my relationship with the family is it is people that believe really strongly in things.

01:15:31Guest:A lot of arguments growing up.

01:15:32Guest:In your family.

01:15:33Guest:Yeah, over everything.

01:15:34Marc:Between you and your mom and dad and your brother.

01:15:36Guest:Between all of us.

01:15:37Guest:Everyone's still together.

01:15:38Marc:Your parents still together?

01:15:39Guest:Over any given thing.

01:15:40Guest:Yep, parents still together.

01:15:42Guest:Your dad's still driving?

01:15:44Guest:Still driving.

01:15:45Marc:What's your mom do?

01:15:46Guest:uh she's now early retirement uh-huh uh was a secretary at a children's hospital for 31 years uh-huh uh and i'm sure she won't mind me sharing she so she's just let go from her uh job 31 years loyal service same children's hospital just let go right cutbacks or whatever pension though

01:16:09Guest:Not the amount of respect that she deserves.

01:16:13Guest:Fuck.

01:16:13Guest:You know what I mean?

01:16:14Marc:Worst.

01:16:15Guest:Children's hospital.

01:16:16Guest:Children's hospital.

01:16:17Guest:Not the amount of respect she deserves, just gone.

01:16:20Guest:I mean, it's a woman who sat with children who tried to commit suicide and would talk and pray with them.

01:16:27Guest:You know what I mean?

01:16:28Guest:And just 31 years, like, eh.

01:16:29Guest:Gone, right?

01:16:30Marc:How's she handling it?

01:16:31Guest:Fine.

01:16:32Guest:My mom's one of the strongest people I've ever met.

01:16:35Guest:So just fine.

01:16:36Marc:So everyone's got strong opinions in the show.

01:16:38Guest:Strong opinions in the show.

01:16:39Guest:Strong opinions, some unpopular opinions, trying to see both sides of an argument.

01:16:44Guest:I'm crazy inspired by Norman Lear.

01:16:46Guest:And I haven't.

01:16:49Guest:I saw him speak twice, actually, once at Bad Robot.

01:16:55Guest:They were nice enough to invite me to just this very private thing to see Norman Lear speak.

01:17:00Guest:And then I saw him speak to Rosenthal, to Phil Rosenthal, just this conversation about his book and about, you know, creating.

01:17:07Marc:Yeah, I talked to him in here.

01:17:09Guest:Yeah.

01:17:09Guest:So you.

01:17:10Marc:So you like.

01:17:10Marc:Why don't you meet him?

01:17:12Guest:I would love to.

01:17:13Guest:I would love to.

01:17:14Guest:He'd love to come see you.

01:17:15Guest:I wonder, man.

01:17:17Guest:It's like he likes to go out and shit.

01:17:18Guest:He's, I mean, just, I mean, by the way, I had a great conversation with Rob Reiner about, like, even in making this, like, between the conversation with Cosby and I talked with Reiner, I saw Lear speak.

01:17:29Guest:I called Phil Rosenthal.

01:17:31Guest:We talked about things.

01:17:33Marc:So the model is all in the family?

01:17:35Guest:yeah if there's a model yeah it's all in the family because because it's just it's true you want to go the juice yeah yeah yeah like honesty on television because you don't tune into a sitcom to see when if i want to see you tune in for character and perspective you don't tune in to see you know like oh that story's crazy because that's what netflix is for and that's what you know these dramas are for and even on nbc they have dramas that do that like

01:18:02Marc:You tune in to see you build a relationship.

01:18:04Marc:Relationship.

01:18:04Guest:With the character.

01:18:05Guest:Exactly.

01:18:06Guest:And in building that relationship, the people that I want to build relationships with are people who have strong views and strong opinions and aren't just saying just sassy things every 15 seconds.

01:18:18Guest:Jokes.

01:18:19Guest:Just jokes.

01:18:20Guest:Just jokes.

01:18:21Guest:It's just like conversation, real things.

01:18:23Guest:Who's playing your dad?

01:18:24Guest:David Alan Greer.

01:18:24Guest:Yeah.

01:18:26Guest:Yeah.

01:18:27Guest:He's fantastic, by the way.

01:18:29Guest:Sure, man.

01:18:29Guest:He's like, I mean, and an actor.

01:18:31Guest:Yeah.

01:18:31Guest:You know what I mean?

01:18:32Guest:Like, it's like, he's an actor.

01:18:34Guest:You're talking to Tony Award.

01:18:35Guest:You know, like.

01:18:36Guest:Who else is in it?

01:18:37Guest:Loretta Devine.

01:18:38Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:18:38Marc:Plays my mom.

01:18:39Guest:Nice.

01:18:39Guest:Also amazing actress.

01:18:41Guest:Amber Stevens.

01:18:42Guest:Amber West, rather, excuse me, who's fantastic and just like fun.

01:18:46Guest:She plays my girlfriend.

01:18:48Guest:Lil Rel Howery plays my brother.

01:18:50Guest:Uh-huh.

01:18:50Guest:uh and uh another comic tiffany haddish plays his ex-wife that he can't afford to leave yeah she's amazing like it's it's really and honestly the the chemistry is there you know what i mean like a very real chemistry how you doing with the acting you feeling it

01:19:06Guest:I feel, I like acting.

01:19:08Marc:You taking any lessons?

01:19:09Marc:Got a coach on hand?

01:19:12Guest:I spoke with an acting coach once.

01:19:15Guest:She was really, really great.

01:19:16Guest:I have this relationship with all school where it's a very cautious relationship because it's why, and with all due respect to anyone who's done comedy classes, the reason I wouldn't, I'm not like an advocate of comedy classes is because

01:19:31Guest:You don't want to create this box for yourself that you can't get out.

01:19:36Marc:A system.

01:19:36Guest:Someone else's system.

01:19:37Guest:A system.

01:19:38Guest:You want to create your own system.

01:19:39Marc:That's right.

01:19:39Guest:Seinfeld very much so has his own system.

01:19:42Marc:It goes along with your own rhythm.

01:19:43Guest:It goes along with your own rhythm, but you need to find that for yourself.

01:19:46Guest:So same thing with acting.

01:19:47Guest:I remember reading this thing that Denzel Washington said he went to acting school for long enough.

01:19:52Guest:He described it as long enough.

01:19:55Guest:He was like, I went for long enough.

01:19:57Guest:He got what he needed, and then you get out of there before you're following the same rhythm.

01:20:01Guest:Once again, you don't want to do what everybody else is doing.

01:20:04Guest:That's right.

01:20:04Guest:So you want to know yourself.

01:20:05Marc:Find your authentic self.

01:20:06Guest:And acting, same thing with stand-up.

01:20:08Marc:Yeah, you figure it out.

01:20:08Marc:You figure it out.

01:20:09Marc:It takes some time.

01:20:09Guest:I've been watching your show.

01:20:10Guest:You.

01:20:11Marc:Yeah, it took a couple seasons for me to get comfortable with acting.

01:20:14Guest:But you're Marc Maron on Maron.

01:20:17Marc:That's right.

01:20:17Guest:You know what I mean?

01:20:18Guest:Which is the same thing that every actor that we love does.

01:20:21Guest:You know what I mean?

01:20:22Guest:Jack Nicholson is Jack Nicholson.

01:20:23Marc:But those guys, they took classes.

01:20:26Marc:Now, the weird thing about being a comic, and I'm just telling you this because I put this in my head, it was one of the few moments where I knew something that would have frightened me before, but I had no choice and I had to accept it.

01:20:41Marc:I'd known every motherfucker in our trade that got sitcoms.

01:20:45Marc:I know him.

01:20:46Marc:I know Brett, I know Ray, I know Louie.

01:20:49Marc:I didn't know Jerry, but I saw it.

01:20:51Marc:But I said, all right, every one of these guys, it took at least a season for them to figure out

01:20:56Marc:how to act like themselves yeah because and then you're surrounded by real actors yes but we're we're us and we and we just think we're gonna we'll just do it but like you watch the first season of any of those shows you're like oh it's a little yeah a little stiff figuring it out right and i knew that though and like before i would have been like oh fuck man i gotta figure this out before i do it yeah so you you were able to just like gonna have to eat it figure it out you have to take the hit you're gonna

01:21:23Marc:Well, thanks for the heads up.

01:21:26Marc:No, I'm just saying you're going to do the best you can.

01:21:28Marc:You do the best you can.

01:21:29Marc:And then you're going to grow into it.

01:21:31Marc:You grow into it.

01:21:31Marc:You might be a miracle.

01:21:32Marc:I hear you're a miracle.

01:21:33Marc:You might be fucking Olivier in the first week.

01:21:36Guest:God bless you.

01:21:37Guest:All right, I'll take it.

01:21:40Guest:Take it.

01:21:41Guest:Take it.

01:21:41Marc:Well, look, best of luck.

01:21:44Marc:Thank you.

01:21:44Marc:And let's talk.

01:21:47Marc:I want to talk again either at the pickup or when it doesn't work out.

01:21:53Guest:You know what?

01:21:54Guest:That's the deal.

01:21:55Guest:Okay, buddy.

01:21:55Guest:That's the deal.

01:21:56Guest:Thanks, Gerard.

01:21:56Guest:This is amazing.

01:21:57Guest:Thank you.

01:22:03Marc:Well, I think we covered it, man.

01:22:04Marc:That guy, he's like all lit up, that guy.

01:22:08Marc:Just beaming, beaming with youth and energy and creativity.

01:22:13Marc:It charged me up.

01:22:17Marc:Let's make it a little less dirty.

01:22:21Marc:This is a new guitar.

01:22:25Marc:I want to do something meditative.

01:22:26Marc:If I can, if I can try to do that, that would make me feel better.

01:22:29Marc:So it just, you know, I'm just going to do the three chord thing.

01:22:33Marc:Maybe I'll throw another one in there.

01:22:34Marc:I don't know.

01:22:37Thank you.

01:23:03Marc:fuck it boomer lives