Episode 62 - Myq Kaplan / Jerry & Cathy McDowell
Marc:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what-the-fuckers?
Marc:What-the-fuck buddies?
Marc:What-the-fuckineers?
Marc:Whatever the fuck you want to call yourselves, welcome aboard.
Marc:I am Marc Maron.
Marc:This is WTF, the podcast.
Marc:On the show today, we've got comedian Mike Kaplan, who I've known a bit over the years.
Marc:He's a new guy.
Marc:He's an up-and-coming guy.
Marc:He's a smart guy.
Marc:And he's a guy I find a little irritating in the sense that I've always sensed that his disposition was a little...
Marc:arrogant but I I'm probably gonna find that to be false but he's a good comic he's a vegan uh he's I don't know there's a lot of stuff that uh I could find annoying but I always liked him and I'm excited to talk to him also on the show we're gonna be talking to a couple that's written a book Jerry and Kathy McDowell have written a book called The Perfect Marriage and I thought I'd reach out and help me and help you maybe we can learn some stuff here
Marc:we'll see but before we get to that let's do this pow oh man oh i think i did just shit my pants is that okay that's just coffee.coop available at wtfpod.com where there are some new things some new things available to you which i will tell you about later but first
Marc:I'd like to discuss a moral predicament that I had the other day with myself, with the world, with the God.
Marc:I don't know if he's there or not, but it was a moral predicament.
Marc:And I was sort of surprised at the way my brain worked, and I don't know if I can rationalize it.
Marc:I don't know if some of you know this, but some people do.
Marc:I feed hummingbirds.
Marc:I sort of spitefully feed them.
Marc:Is that possible?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Look, a while back, I was going through the stuff that was left here at the house when I bought it, and there were these two hummingbird feeders.
Marc:So I decided, look, I got nothing to do.
Marc:This counts as being creative behavior.
Marc:I'm going to clean these things up.
Marc:Do a little research, fill them up with stuff and put them out in the front and back of my house and feed the birds.
Marc:Feed the fucking hummingbirds.
Marc:That's what I'm going to do.
Marc:And that was the attitude I had.
Marc:I'm going to feed these little fuckers.
Marc:Like I was angry about doing the work for some reason.
Marc:So I clean these things up and I do the research.
Marc:You know, it doesn't have to be red.
Marc:I don't know if you know that.
Marc:Hummingbird water.
Marc:Hummingbird feed is just tap water.
Marc:One to four.
Marc:Quarter cup of sugar, one cup of tap water.
Marc:You got to leave the tap water because it has minerals in it.
Marc:You mix that up and you just put it in these feeders.
Marc:The red flowers, the fake flowers on the feeders are good enough.
Marc:I have a mild fascination with hummingbirds.
Marc:They're kind of cool, but I really was...
Marc:Here's how insecure I am.
Marc:I was sitting there putting together these hummingbird feeders saying to myself, these fuckers better come.
Marc:You know, I'm doing this for them.
Marc:They better come.
Marc:I don't even know if they're out there, but these little flying, fast flying fuckers better come and slurp this shit up that I'm putting out there for them.
Marc:So I had a lot of expectation and some part of my fragile ego was on the line because the thought of being rejected by hummingbirds was just too much for my sensitive artistic ego to deal with, given that I just spent all this time putting together these feeders.
Marc:So I did it.
Marc:I put them together.
Marc:I filled them up.
Marc:I put them out.
Marc:And sure enough, the little fuckers came.
Marc:They are so cool, man.
Marc:I mean, I can sit and watch hummingbirds for at least three or four minutes.
Marc:No, I've actually watched them for about 15 or 20 minutes.
Marc:Because once you get the hang of hummingbirds, they are vicious little bastards.
Marc:They're nasty little fuckers.
Marc:And I had no idea.
Marc:Because you think like...
Marc:It's just as weird the way they float in the air and they flit and their wings go so fast.
Marc:You're like, oh, it's so precious, so nice.
Marc:And there they are, just pristine and gorgeous and floating about with that sound, that zzz, zzz, zzz, zzz.
Marc:But let me tell you some vicious bastards, because I got them out in my backyard.
Marc:I got the feeder out in the backyard, this big tree down the down the hill.
Marc:And they just sit up there perching the tree, three or four of them in different locations.
Marc:And they dive bomb in.
Marc:They come and they just come up to the feeder.
Marc:And then another one will come out of the air and start dogfighting with that one and just like flank him.
Marc:And there's just hummingbird wars.
Marc:No one discusses the hummingbird wars.
Marc:Well, I'm going to talk about it.
Marc:There is a problem.
Marc:There is a global community problem in the hummingbird world.
Marc:I mean, these fuckers are beating the shit out of each other.
Marc:They're just dive bombing each other.
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:It's like watching a very, very small and organic version of Top Gun.
Marc:But, and also they don't give a fuck about you either.
Marc:The hummingbird stood me down.
Marc:I mean, a hummingbird stood me down.
Marc:I walk out my backyard.
Marc:He's like, you know, at the feeder and I walk right up to him and he gets right in my face.
Marc:Like, you know, you got a problem?
Marc:You want to go?
Marc:And I had to step back because I didn't know if he was going to poke my eyes out.
Marc:Who the hell knows with these animals?
Marc:vicious little bastards but i that makes me respect them it's like they got the veneer and the behavior and the sort of like look at me how precious and cute and small i am and i'm just a perfect little being and underneath they're like get the fuck out of the way i'm doing this
Marc:So what happens, I'm sitting at my table, and I'm just, I'm plinking away on the keys, doing the business, probably, you know, justifying or rationalizing that social networking is somehow work for three hours.
Marc:And I heard that sound, you know, that kind of resonating, like, gink.
Marc:That is only one thing sounds like that if you live in a house with windows, and that is a bird hitting the window.
Guest:Gink.
Gink.
Marc:And I'm like, oh, no, because I knew what happened.
Marc:I knew what happened.
Marc:Those birds are out front all the time around that feeder.
Marc:And I was like, oh, man, a hummingbird hit the feeder.
Marc:And I said that to my intern, who I now have an intern now, who I am paying.
Marc:I don't believe in slave labor.
Marc:But my intern, Brian, I said, that was a hummingbird hit the window.
Marc:And he's like, oh, really?
Marc:He's doing a great job, by the way.
Marc:And I'm like, yeah, what am I going to do?
Marc:I got to go look.
Marc:So I look out the window, and sure enough, there's a hummingbird sitting on the ground on the front patio there.
Marc:on the little porch there's a wall and then inside there's a little area and he had plinked up against the window bonked it and now he was on the ground and he's looking around and I knew he was hurt I knew he was hurt it didn't look like his neck was broken or he would have been dead but he was just there like you know like birds are when you see them and they're not flying and they're not moving you know they're just sitting there you like that birds fucked it's it's gonna die I don't know what's gonna happen
Marc:And then I was sitting there going, what am I going to do?
Marc:What am I going to do with this thing?
Marc:You had nothing in me.
Marc:My first thought was not like, you know, let's put him in a shoe box and bring him to the vet like I'm seven.
Marc:My parents, you know, it's a little project that my parents say, maybe you should put some gloves on and put it in a shoe box and we'll go figure it.
Marc:We'll call the vet.
Marc:You'll call the vet or now it'd probably be like you go online, figure out how you help the bird.
Marc:And then you get a little lesson in in watching things die.
Marc:That was not my thought at all.
Marc:I was like, I don't know what we're going to do with this.
Marc:I, you know, because if you touch a bird, they're screwed because then apparently they're rejected by the rest of the bird community and they die, you know, alienated in some sort of bird like Siberia, isolated.
Marc:But I don't know.
Marc:These hummingbirds seem like loners anyways, but I don't know if it would have if I touched it and it did fly away.
Marc:Is it going to be able to get laid again?
Marc:Is it done with any?
Marc:I don't that.
Marc:That really didn't cross my mind.
Marc:Honestly, the first thing that came into my mind was I'm going to let LaFonda out and give this bird the ending it deserves as an animal that fucked up.
Marc:I'm going to let my cat deal with this issue.
Marc:I'm going to let my cat go out there and take care of this bird because I figure if I'm an animal...
Marc:You know, why not go out like animals go out, you know, you know, fighting for your life.
Marc:But then it was handicapped.
Marc:And what am I?
Marc:What does that make me thinking that?
Marc:Like, you know, let's just let the predator, let's let La Fonda, the vicious little bitch that she is, you know, go out there and just, you know, start ripping this thing to shreds.
Marc:It probably, you know, La Fonda would probably play with it for two hours, prolonging the suffering of this bird.
Marc:I felt bad that I thought of that, but I was doing it for the cat.
Marc:And on some level, I'd rationalized that I was also doing it for the bird.
Marc:And something inside me said, that's not right.
Marc:That's not right, man.
Marc:Go out and see how badly the bird is hurt.
Marc:Because I thought it broke its long little nose.
Marc:And I didn't know what to do.
Marc:Anyways, so I walk out the front door and I look at the bird.
Marc:It looks at me and it takes off.
Marc:And just, boom, gone.
Marc:And it had been sitting down there for like three minutes.
Marc:And I'm like, what the hell is that about?
Marc:Why didn't it just fly away?
Marc:And I thought like, was it stunned?
Marc:Was it?
Marc:But you know what?
Marc:It was probably feeling ashamed of itself.
Marc:You know, it hit the window.
Marc:It was probably just sitting on the porch going, I'm a fucking idiot.
Marc:I can't fucking believe I hit the window.
Marc:I hope no one saw that.
Marc:I'm an idiot.
Marc:I'm just going to lay low, let this blow over.
Marc:Maybe none of the other hummingbirds will fuck with me later.
Marc:I'm going to be that guy, you know, the guy that hit the window.
Marc:It's bad enough we got to fight for these stupid fake flowers in the sugar water, and I got to be the guy that hit the window?
Marc:I'm just going to hang out and lay low.
Marc:Oh, who's this dude?
Marc:I'm out of here.
Marc:And he flew away with a little humility.
Marc:I think that's the message there.
Marc:That's an animal fable about humility, is that if you survive your mistake, learn from it, be aware of it, and realize that you're fragile, you're vulnerable, you're not immortal.
Marc:And you got to take care of yourself and kind of laugh it off.
Marc:A little humility there.
Marc:That came from the humiliation.
Marc:I hope he's okay with the community.
Marc:I won't be able to identify him, but I hope he's all right.
Marc:I have a hard time, you know, with the dying animals.
Marc:I get attached to animals.
Marc:But after a certain point, you know, people who grew up on farms know this.
Marc:I remember having a conversation with my buddy Jim Gepner back in the day.
Marc:And he grew up in Montana or somewhere, and I had this mouse problem in my apartment, and I felt bad.
Marc:I thought I could cohabitate with the mice.
Marc:And he's like, what's wrong with you?
Marc:They're vermin.
Marc:They're like bugs.
Marc:You kill them.
Marc:I'm like, no, they're not.
Marc:They're rodents.
Marc:They're not bugs.
Marc:They're funner than bugs.
Marc:They're much more expressive, and they're rodents.
Marc:Bugs are disgusting.
Marc:You don't just step in.
Marc:But then I remembered years ago, I worked in a coffee shop in Harvard Square called the Coffee Connection.
Marc:Some of you might remember it.
Marc:It was a pre-Starbucks coffee shop that did sort of a similar thing.
Marc:It was very sort of, you know, snobby about coffee, coffees from around the world.
Marc:They only serve their coffee if you sat down in the restaurant in French presses and every coffee had instructions.
Marc:And it was all very, very high end.
Marc:And, you know, of course, I worked there with a bunch of artists and or, you know, people who weren't doing their art.
Marc:You know, the pre hipster hipsters.
Marc:I mean, this wasn't the time of the hipster.
Marc:So there was a, you know, just your regular college town group of people that worked in a coffee shop.
Marc:A lot of big dreams, a lot of big talk, a lot of philosophies and ideas.
Marc:A lot of people that were pretending like they knew about life but didn't.
Marc:And I had just, I'd been in Los Angeles already, so I'd been chewed up and spat out once.
Marc:And had a chip on my shoulder.
Marc:Yeah, I was that guy.
Marc:You know, I was the guy at the, I was the barista who was, you know, you know, already bitter.
Marc:You know, at 22, you know, sort of like, yeah, I used to live in Los Angeles.
Marc:Used to hang out with Kenison.
Marc:You know what sentiment on that?
Marc:That guy.
Marc:I was that guy.
Marc:But I had an edge, you know, somewhat earned edge.
Marc:And I used to open the place.
Marc:So I remember one morning, you know, getting there a little late and everyone was behind the counter.
Marc:You know, the gay guy.
Marc:I'm not isolating him, but there was this gay guy who, you know, was very, very feminine, nice guy.
Marc:I wonder what happened to that guy.
Marc:And then there was Peter and his girlfriend.
Marc:Peter was a painter and his girlfriend was a painter's girlfriend.
Marc:That's a trick, huh?
Marc:And I just remember they're all sitting there, the guy who was a cook, and they're all standing in a circle behind the counter.
Marc:And I walk in, I'm like, what the hell's going on here?
Marc:And they're all standing there looking at this mouse that's stuck on a piece of sticky paper, on a sticky trap.
Marc:just sitting there twitching on a sticky trap.
Marc:And all of them were standing around looking at it like, oh, it's so sad.
Marc:What do we do?
Marc:What do we do?
Marc:And that wasn't anyone specific.
Marc:You can put that voice on anybody you want.
Marc:It was just the general tone of the situation.
Marc:And they're like, what do we do?
Marc:What do we do?
Marc:And I don't know where it came from or what happened, but I just stepped in and I stomped on it with my foot and smashed it.
Marc:and picked it up and threw it away.
Marc:And they were like, all of them were like, what the fuck?
Marc:Why would you, and I'm like, that's what needed to be done.
Marc:And they never looked at me the same.
Marc:They looked at me.
Marc:I was like, you know, I was like Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now.
Marc:I'd done something.
Marc:You know, I'd made an example.
Marc:I'd transgressed.
Marc:I'd set a moral standard as the guy who, you know, the killer of mice.
Marc:What are you going to do, though?
Marc:Are you going to throw it in the garbage so you don't have to think about it and it suffocates or dies and prolongs its suffering?
Marc:It's tough.
Marc:You know, and I deliberate this stuff.
Marc:The thing about Gepner, my problem was I had mice.
Marc:And this was more personal.
Marc:This was an ego issue with the mice.
Marc:I had to kill a mouse because it fucked with me and insulted my intelligence.
Marc:And that's where I draw a line with these things.
Marc:I had this mouse living in my queen's apartment, and I knew what it was doing.
Marc:It seemed to be hanging out in this one bowl that had a rag in it, and it looked like it was sleeping in there when I was asleep, and it was shitting around, but fuck it.
Marc:I used to like seeing it scurry across the floor sometimes.
Marc:It was my friend.
Marc:I didn't name him, but he was hanging out.
Marc:I was like, I can live with this.
Marc:Is there any reason we have to kill these mice?
Marc:I mean, they're dirty, but I'm dirty.
Marc:So we're cohabitating.
Marc:No problem.
Marc:And then one morning, I wake up, I go to the fridge, and I open the freezer to get the coffee out, and there's mouse shit on top of the refrigerator.
Marc:How the fuck mouse shit on top of the refrigerator?
Marc:And I swear to God, folks, I sat there and I could not figure out how that mouse had gotten to the top of my refrigerator to shit.
Marc:It was almost like he was shitting at me.
Marc:Like, you know, all right, we're friends.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:I'm going to push the envelope a little bit.
Marc:And he went on top of the refrigerator.
Marc:I don't know if he flew there or there was a series of some Rube Goldberg device that he wasn't part of.
Marc:but he used to get on top that I didn't know about, or there was a bunch of mice and they were flipping each other up.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:All I know is I didn't know.
Marc:And, and I took it as a line drawn in the sand and I'm like, you have baffled me.
Marc:I can't understand how you did this.
Marc:It's, it's disgusting.
Marc:And it's obviously, uh, antagonistic and I'm going to fucking kill you.
Marc:So I put a sticky trap out and I got him and I suffocated him.
Marc:I didn't let him suffer too much.
Marc:Pow!
Guest:My guest is Mike Kaplan.
Marc:That's M-Y-Q.
Marc:Mike, is that short for something?
Guest:It's made up, so I say it's short for M-Y-Q-L.
Guest:You made it up?
Guest:I did when I was a kid.
Marc:So you had your name changed when you were a kid?
Guest:I mean, it's legally just Michael, normal.
Marc:Oh, and you made it up, how old were you?
Guest:It was when Prince changed his name to a symbol, and I decided to do something weird.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:Like 14 or 15.
Marc:Oh, so it wasn't that young.
Guest:No, no, I wasn't like a precocious, word-changing genius.
Guest:That came later.
Marc:I think you were precocious if you actually committed to the MYQ.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I did a little bit.
Guest:I mean, when I started doing comedy, it sort of worked to Google my name better because there's a lot of Mike and Michael Kaplins out there.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Well, it's like Louis C.K.
Marc:Do you know how to spell C.K.?
Guest:Yeah, it's like S-Z-E-K-E-L-Y.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you actually studied other people that have shortened their names to make them clever and catchy.
Guest:I do a lot.
Guest:I put in all the work.
Marc:Good research.
Marc:Well, you know, I've met you many times, and I know you, and I don't find you too irritating.
Guest:I think that's the highest praise that I could expect to come today.
Marc:No, you seem to have your shit together a little too much for me to understand.
Marc:Yeah, that's what I thought.
Marc:We've had this conversation before, I think, in other forms.
Guest:Don't you think?
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Because you write your jokes, you keep in shape, you don't have any visible signs of weakness other than you're a little bit of a controlly guy.
Guest:That sounds right.
Marc:And you're vegan, which is a little irritating because to me it connotes some sort of condescension that I'm projecting onto you.
Guest:I eat honey if that helps you.
Guest:I don't care about bees.
Guest:A lot of vegans.
Marc:But honey doesn't kill bees.
Guest:Sometimes there's like a big truck full of millions of bees and they get into trouble.
Guest:That's what a vegan friend of mine told me.
Marc:They get into trouble?
Guest:Yeah, they went off the road.
Guest:I don't know how often it happens, but these bees had to be like hosed down.
Guest:Like millions of bees were killed.
Guest:Maybe it only happened once.
Marc:And that's why the bees are disappearing?
Marc:It's because of honey consumption?
Guest:I haven't done all the research in this because, like I said, I don't care about them as much.
Marc:I'm not sure what it is.
Marc:Maybe I see myself in you if that's possible.
Guest:I mean, we believe a lot of the same things.
Guest:I respond, I love your comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:even though it's certainly not the comedy that I do specifically.
Guest:I try to tell the truth about myself.
Guest:I try to be honest, but a lot of times the truth about myself is, I'm thinking of words.
Guest:Here they are.
Marc:You did it in the kitchen.
Marc:I put my meatballs on a warmed-up piece of...
Marc:of naan bread, garlic naan, and you very quickly said, it's Indian bread with cow on it.
Marc:And there was no joke there, but that's how your brain works.
Guest:It is how it works.
Marc:You look at jokes as math.
Marc:You're one of those guys.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I mean, I definitely, I don't look at anything as an absolute.
Guest:So I, you know, I think...
Guest:Along the over the years I've gotten looser and more open and like I used to only write like you know sort of one-liners like you know pun based kind of like there if you saw me Seven years ago horrible you would I would be more than a little irritating I'm very glad you got out of the pun world Yeah, I mean there's no good in puns and I mean there's some like if if you can hide them if you can hide them in between meaning then I guess but even even a great pun stinks
Guest:Understood.
Marc:I mean, am I wrong?
Marc:I think... Because all you can ever do with a pun is go, oh, yeah, that's clever.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:I believe that I've figured out a way to... They come into my head, I write them down in my notebook, and I say, this is a pun, don't tell it on stage.
Guest:Do you have your notebook with you?
Guest:I do, in my bag, have my notebook, yeah.
Guest:Go get the notebook.
Guest:This is a new notebook, so...
Guest:Actually, I just realized I wrote this addition to a joke yesterday, a thing I've been doing about, I don't know if you can't see me, if you can hear from my voice, I'm not good at sports.
Marc:He's a small Jew with glasses.
Guest:Is that wrong?
Guest:No, that is absolutely correct.
Guest:I'm great at ping pong.
Guest:That's my sport.
Guest:That's what I can do.
Guest:But the Super Bowl happened, and so my relation to the Super Bowl is I'm like, hey, where can I get a Super Bowl of salad around here?
Guest:And that's what I say.
Guest:See, that's a pun.
Guest:I gotcha.
Guest:Does that get a laugh?
Guest:I keep piling it on because actually I was talking to a guy about the Super Bowl in the context that neither of us cared about it.
Guest:These two big guys overheard us at this bar, and this was like two months before the Super Bowl.
Guest:And they were like, who do you think is going to be in the Super Bowl this year?
Guest:And in my head I'm like, lettuce and tomato?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That's what would happen in your head?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you chose at that moment not to share that.
Guest:I didn't share that.
Guest:What I shared actually was I was like, two football teams, am I right?
Guest:Is that, we're men, high five, you know?
Marc:And you got roughly the same look as if you would have said lettuce and tomato.
Guest:Basically, yeah.
Guest:But, so now, the joke ends now, like, essentially, people are lucky that I pronounced Super Bowl correctly, because if it were up to me, I would say it, the first time I saw it, superb owl.
Guest:That's how I read it, because I like birds, you know?
Guest:And you know who did that?
Guest:Is that the joke?
Guest:We're almost there.
Guest:We're almost there.
Marc:It's all building up to this.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:You do the whole bit.
Guest:I do this bit.
Marc:That's a long bit.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Go ahead.
Marc:Let's finish it up.
Guest:The end of it is that who do you think is going to be in the superb owl this year?
Guest:Perhaps the Ravens or the Eagles or other teams that are birds.
Guest:But you know who's playing at the half?
Guest:Halftime show.
Guest:Who?
Guest:The Who.
Guest:Yeah, The Who.
Guest:That happened.
Guest:A guy mentioned that The Who was performing at the Super Bowl this year.
Guest:Were they?
Guest:They were.
Guest:They performed at the halftime show of the Super Bowl, so it worked perfectly to put into this joke for the next couple days.
Marc:Now, how did that joke do?
Marc:Seriously.
Guest:Last night, applause break.
Marc:Applause break?
Guest:Applause break on The Who.
Guest:Where?
Guest:At the Great and Secret show, the Walsh Brothers comedy show.
Marc:How many people were there?
Guest:15.
Marc:See, I think that's great.
Marc:And I used to have a lot of friends that wrote jokes like you.
Marc:You're a smart guy.
Marc:You're a nice guy.
Marc:You put a lot of work into your craft.
Marc:And you're experiencing the first sort of wave of buzz and heat.
Guest:For me, I'm a pleaser now.
Guest:I want people to like me because I wasn't liked in high school, perhaps.
Guest:I don't know if that's the psychology, if it's that simple.
Marc:Were you really not liked in high school?
Guest:I moved right after eighth grade or right before eighth grade to a place I didn't have any social skills.
Guest:I'd gone to a small private school, and we were all friends, the 20 people in my class, up to seventh grade.
Marc:So you were in a sort of precious existence.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I was completely.
Guest:And then in eighth grade, I started over and didn't know how to do it.
Marc:And you were in a public school then?
Guest:I was in a public school with giant glasses, braces, slicked down hair, no social skills, no dancing ability.
Guest:Where?
Guest:What town?
Guest:In northern Jersey, in Upper Saddle River in Allendale, New Jersey.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:So, yeah, my high school experience was mostly lonely.
Guest:Like, there's some people that are nice to you that now if I could go back and tell myself, hey, remember those people who you were, like, surprised would hold open a door and say hello and ask you questions sometimes?
Guest:Like, you should follow up.
Guest:Follow up with those people.
Guest:Because that's how you make – like, now, if I meet a person in comedy that I like, even at – you know, because friendship in comedy is weird because you start doing comedy – like, I was in Boston –
Guest:And you see all the same people at the same time, and you're hanging out with them at bars every night, which is what friends do, but they're not your friends until you hang out not in that situation.
Marc:Right, during the day when you're both walking around going, I don't know what the fuck is going to happen.
Marc:I can't get on stage at that place.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What am I supposed to do?
Marc:I hate this temp job, that kind of stuff.
Guest:Yeah, so, I mean, when I started, you know, when I was like, that guy's a guy that I would like to talk to, you know, you email, I'd just be like, hey, we should talk now.
Guest:And then they're like, yeah, we should talk.
Guest:And then, so then that's how friends get born.
Guest:But I didn't know that in high school.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:Yeah, and the weird thing about comics is that you have to assume that we're all, you know, kind of, you know, square pegs somehow.
Marc:You know, that no one would do this that fit into the real world in a proper way.
Marc:So we're all a bunch of misfits.
Yeah.
Guest:Which, and I think maybe that's where I don't feel necessarily that way about myself now.
Guest:Like, I think I could, you know, if I wanted to.
Marc:There's still time for you to fuck everything up.
Guest:I'm sure that, yeah, definitely.
Marc:But would you know it?
Marc:But, you know, I know another, the other, who's the other only child?
Marc:Nick Kroll's an only child.
Marc:He's doing great.
Marc:Yeah, so maybe that's the thing.
Marc:You know, Robin Williams was an only child.
Marc:Maybe there's something insulated about that.
Marc:Maybe it's a good thing.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I certainly...
Guest:I mean, everything could go wrong, you know, in the world in general or in my life.
Guest:It will.
Guest:Yeah, certainly.
Guest:But just I hope that I die before that.
Marc:Or you hope that you overcome it and you probably will.
Marc:But let's let's get back to this.
Marc:First of all, the moment like when did you decide that you were like what did your funniness come out of trying to adjust in eighth grade in that transition?
Guest:I don't even think.
Guest:I mean, I think I remember.
Marc:You don't think you're funny?
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:I don't think I was funny then.
Marc:You look like a straight A kind of guy.
Marc:You look like the guy who sucked up and got the good fucking grades, didn't disrupt class.
Marc:I mean, I come from a different school.
Guest:I was that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I didn't specifically suck up.
Guest:Like, everybody sucked up in elementary school.
Guest:And then in high school, all I had was being smart.
Guest:Like, that was the only thing that I was was smart.
Guest:And so perhaps there was some arrogance then.
Guest:Like, I was always told by my Jewish family, like, you're the best.
Guest:You can do anything.
Marc:They all say that.
Marc:It's such a fucking lie.
Guest:It is.
Marc:You can't do anything.
Marc:I know that now, for sure.
Marc:I mean, I can't do anything.
Marc:Why do parents tell kids that?
Marc:It's disillusioning.
Marc:Why don't they just tell them to acknowledge their limitations, what are their expectations, and do what you can?
Guest:Do you think that that would make people accomplish more than they would have?
Guest:No, but they might be happier people.
Marc:I mean, the Jews set you on this weird race for a grail that is not available.
Marc:The way the Jews are wired is that you're never going to be as good as we want you to be.
Marc:And they use that as a methodology to keep you trying.
Guest:But what happened to me is I veered off from that because I didn't go to become, I could have become, I'm sure, I imagine a doctor or a thing.
Guest:Yeah, why didn't you do that?
Guest:Because I really liked, I like performing music.
Guest:That's how I got into performing.
Guest:You play guitar?
Guest:I played violin from age four, hated it.
Marc:Holy shit, you took all the paths that would just make you hated by any normal person.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:There was a kid in high school.
Guest:This might be representative along with the meat thing from before.
Guest:My high school experience, there was a kid who was younger than me, but much bigger, much fatter and intimidating.
Guest:I was walking in with my violin case to the school and he said, what's in the bag?
Guest:And I said, do you mean my violin case?
Guest:And he said, what are you, gay?
Guest:That's...
Guest:I mean, it's not even, I've said it on stage, it seems so simple.
Guest:Like, that happened to me.
Guest:That's real.
Guest:And there was a lot of that.
Guest:I mean, or at least there was a lot of that in my head.
Guest:That's why I ate lunch at my locker, because I wanted to avoid that.
Guest:Oh, you're breaking my heart.
Guest:There's another guy who broke my ping pong paddle when we played.
Guest:He was like, can I use your paddle?
Guest:And I was like, sure, you can use my paddle.
Guest:I'm a nice person.
Guest:And he's like, I'm not, you know.
Guest:And he broke your ping pong.
Guest:He broke it after I won a point.
Guest:He was like, oh, I'm angry.
Guest:Now I'll break your paddle.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Now, it seems to me that what I noticed right there during your conversation, I don't know how much you've talked about this before publicly, but there was a rage that I sensed that runs very deep and that only comedy can service.
Guest:I'd say so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, I hate those guys.
Guest:I...
Guest:Can I say who they are?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Give their names.
Guest:Josh Lees was the kid who- A Jewish kid?
Guest:No.
Guest:L-E-E-S.
Guest:I don't think he was Jewish.
Guest:He did not seem like a big fat Jew.
Guest:He was a big fat whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Josh Lees said the first thing and John McPartland said- McPartland.
Guest:McPartland.
Guest:Certainly not a Jew.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you call him John McFartland?
Guest:I wish I'd.
Guest:I wasn't funny then.
Marc:Because that seemed right up your- You didn't learn to do the pun thing until-
Guest:Well, here's the thing.
Guest:I was also sort of like, I thought I was above, like, you know, fart shit, cock, you know, dick.
Marc:So you were arrogant then?
Guest:I was, I definitely was.
Guest:Yeah, I thought I was smart and better.
Marc:I still think I'm above, I did a fart story the other night and it felt very awkward to me.
Guest:I mean, for me now, I tell, like, I'll talk about, you know, some porn or sex or, like, various other stories like that, but it all has to have something else, you know, some other-
Guest:It has to have at least something either clever.
Marc:It's not going to be the punchline.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:It won't be like, and then a dick.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:None of that?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, if it works.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:I'm open to it.
Guest:If it comes out spontaneously, I'm different in the moment.
Guest:I mean, I'm somewhat the same, but more things come out when I'm on stage.
Marc:That's the only way I know how to write.
Guest:I go back and forth because I go on stage, then the next day I listen back and I listen to what I said that was different than what I planned, anything that came out spontaneously.
Guest:Then I write that down, keep writing, keep writing, and then go back and do it again.
Marc:So you're sort of an angry nerd.
Marc:Who who is now showing all those fuckers, you know, who I'll tell you who likes me.
Marc:Everybody likes me because I'm the funny man and you guys can't even fight me anymore.
Marc:Because like the one thing that fucking idiots are afraid of is guys that can make them look stupid by making other people laugh at them.
Marc:It's an incredible weapon.
Guest:I get that is the only the only change I would make to that is I would say former angry nerd because I'm honestly I don't I don't hate them.
Guest:I don't hate anything like I don't wish they were dead anymore.
Marc:Well, that's I mean, well, that's extreme, but it doesn't mean you still can't be angry.
Marc:The one thing that I knew that I could do that there's a gift that you have if you're charming and smart and funny is that if you if you really got your craft in place when you're younger, you can make fun of those guys right to their face in front of other people.
Marc:And they're too stupid to know it.
Guest:That is beautiful moment that and that is what I did not I did not do it So now I have to do it after the fact on a podcast so now let's why the vegan thing I became I think in high school I was like I ate burgers and hot dogs only and you know like pizza and pasta like I was ate horribly and
Guest:I thought I was like, you know, I think probably killing animals is wrong, but burgers are delicious, you know, which is I think where most people are at.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And then in college, I just I thought I was like, why don't I give it a shot?
Guest:I mean, I think it's wrong.
Marc:I want to just like line up my wrong because this is the only like I can if I sense where you're going, I can get on board with it wrong because it kills animals.
Guest:Wrong.
Guest:No, because it tortures because the system of like big, you know, factory farming.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's I'm I'm I'm completely fine with like local, organic, free range, cage free, like places where they treat the animals nice, kill them, eat them.
Marc:Where they do this before they kill them.
Marc:Come here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who's a good chicken?
Marc:Come here.
Guest:That is I'm I'm completely I have no problem with that whatsoever.
Guest:It's completely like utilitarian based.
Guest:I don't want I just want to lessen the suffering in the world.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Well, that's noble.
Marc:So how come you don't eat the chickens that had fun before they died?
Guest:At this point, I feel like it might make me sick.
Guest:And it's just easier.
Guest:And I think I can, you know, if people listen to me, either people are going to listen if I'm talking or they're not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I think more people are likely to listen.
Guest:Like I enjoy, I guess, you know, we all as humans like categorization.
Guest:And obviously, I'm not like the most extreme.
Guest:Like if there's a chicken that's going to be like, they're like somebody's gonna be like, I'm gonna throw this chicken sandwich out right now.
Guest:I'm hungry.
Guest:There's nobody else around.
Guest:I'll eat that chicken sandwich.
Marc:You've done that?
Guest:I have.
Guest:I ordered a burrito once, and it was supposed to be a vegetable burrito.
Guest:Literally, everybody was gone for Christmas from my college.
Guest:I was just alone.
Guest:And I was like, I'm going to throw this in the garbage, or I'm going to eat it.
Marc:I ate it.
Marc:Okay, so you were like, I'm not going to let that chicken die for nothing.
Marc:That's exactly what I ate.
Marc:I will pass it through me and re-enter it that way.
Guest:Yeah, if I order something and it comes accidentally with cheese, I won't be like, please send this back and throw it out.
Guest:I mean, if somebody else wants to eat it, then that's ideal, and I'll get my thing that I want.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you have principles.
Marc:I understand.
Marc:I try to.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I tried being vegetarian.
Marc:Wasn't that great?
Guest:I think I mean, I don't think everybody has to or everybody.
Guest:I mean, there's obviously the environmental component as well.
Marc:Like if I really think about shit, like I think there's part of my brain that just has detached from thinking too deeply about too many things because I get very sensitive about it and it would just horrify me.
Guest:Well, that's the thing is, I also, this is the only thing, like, I'm a huge hypocrite in other situations, I'm sure.
Guest:Like what?
Guest:Like, I mean, the environment, like, I'm sure I should recycle, or I don't even know what recycling does, but sometimes, you know, if there's a garbage- You put it in the other thing.
Guest:Oh, yeah, no, I do that, but if there's no other thing, you know, then- You throw it away?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I've thrown away glass bottles.
Guest:Even as a vegan, I've been, like, I did some- But you don't eat them.
Guest:No, I don't.
Guest:That's good.
Marc:I think that's smart, not to eat bottles.
Guest:Yeah, no, I mean- Plastic.
Guest:I heard the freegan adventure that you have.
Guest:And I like the, I think the freegan.
Marc:Let me tell you something about that.
Marc:That, that fucking makes sense.
Marc:I mean, that's appalling.
Marc:I mean, it's not a vegan thing or anything else, but when you really see how much fucking food, I mean, I'm in that dumpster and there's part of me that's thinking like, you know, I could do this once a week.
Marc:I could get all, you know, I could eat and there's something appealing that and not in a Jewy way.
Marc:Like, you know, I don't think about the money I could save, which is a stereotype, but you know what I'm saying?
Marc:But there was something appalling that there was no infrastructure in place to accommodate that discarded food that's still good.
Guest:And you know why?
Guest:When I went to Brandeis University, we had- Holy shit.
Marc:You're like, right when I start liking you.
Guest:Sorry.
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:There was no need to say the name of the university.
Guest:I don't think it's the greatest.
Guest:I had a good time there.
Guest:That's all.
Guest:I like Boston.
Marc:But I work-
Guest:The only reason I went, I applied to a bunch of schools, got into a bunch.
Guest:It was the one that just gave me the most money, so the Jew reason.
Guest:I didn't have college loans.
Guest:That's the only reason I went, to avoid having loans.
Guest:But it was fun.
Guest:You can have fun anywhere.
Guest:You'll find your people.
Marc:Yeah, I'm still learning that.
Marc:I'm glad.
Marc:I mean, I went to the storage space today, and they asked me for an emergency contact, and I'm like, holy shit, I didn't have one.
Yeah.
Marc:I said, is it okay if I put my brother in Arizona?
Marc:I don't know what kind of emergency could happen.
Marc:We found your brother locked in the storage locker.
Marc:I think he's been there for weeks.
Marc:I don't know what the emergency could be, but I didn't have one.
Marc:That's what it's good to have a girlfriend for or a wife.
Marc:Anytime there's a question of an emergency contact, you always have a go-to person.
Guest:And there's probably still some situations where my wife is my emergency contact that I never updated because... So she might get the call.
Guest:She might at some point.
Guest:Yeah, that'd be a sad call.
Guest:From a storage unit in Arizona.
Guest:But when I was at Brandeis, I worked in dining services.
Guest:I did that too.
Guest:See, so we're back on the same page.
Marc:Yeah, no, we got things in common.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I was working there.
Guest:Brandeis ran the dining services themselves when I started there.
Guest:Then Aramark, this huge corporation, took over like two years in.
Guest:When Brandeis was doing it, at the end of every night, they would take the food, the hot food that didn't get eaten, and they'd give it to a homeless shelter.
Guest:They'd just, every night.
Guest:Bring it down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then Aramark took over, and they're like, we're not going to do this.
Guest:If a homeless person eats it and gets sick, they will sue us.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I knew that.
Marc:Yeah, there's legal liability.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, then they but see, that's I think that's a cop out because you can do that.
Marc:You can have a release sign.
Marc:I mean, if you if you build a relationship with a shelter, why couldn't you have them, you know, buffer?
Marc:Like, why couldn't you have them legally buffer the situation?
Marc:Just saying, we'll take the risk and we'll sign this.
Marc:We'll sign off on it if you guarantee that if you just guarantee that you're not giving us garbage.
Guest:Yeah, that that sounds completely perfect.
Marc:Well, I guess we got to fucking fix that.
Guest:Yeah, no more Aramark.
Marc:That's so weird because I worked at the vegetarian cafeteria at BU.
Marc:I served food there.
Guest:Oh, BU is great.
Guest:I went to BU for my master's.
Guest:Do you have a master's?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Does it help if it took me nine years to get it?
Guest:I almost didn't get it.
Guest:They sort of forced it on me.
Guest:In what?
Guest:Linguistics.
Guest:You have a master's in linguistics?
Guest:I do.
Guest:Do you speak another language?
Guest:Not much.
Guest:I took French in elementary, high school.
Guest:What does linguistics mean?
Guest:It's basically what I do on stage.
Guest:You play games with words?
Guest:It's fun.
Guest:So it's like symbolic logic?
Guest:There's that.
Guest:There's combinations.
Guest:There's several levels.
Guest:There's the phonetic level, where it's like different languages use different... There's no R and L or the same letter in Japanese.
Guest:And in English, we have one B. In Korean, they have two Bs.
Marc:Is that why they say they're R's like L's?
Guest:It is.
Guest:They have one mental representation that contains both R&L, and it comes out specifically depending on the circumstance.
Guest:Huh.
Marc:And that's something you learned with your master's.
Guest:That is one of the things I learned.
Marc:So you can always fall back on your linguistics.
Marc:I had a job.
Marc:You're a doctor or a master's?
Guest:I'm a master.
Marc:You're a master of linguistics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I got my diploma finally, which my dad was very happy about, the diploma says master of arts.
Guest:And I was thinking of putting an apostrophe on it, hanging up in the bathroom and saying master of farts.
Marc:And that would sort of.
Guest:Fulfill the exact thing that it is.
Marc:Boy, that's very clever.
Guest:that's uh and that's like i i don't here's the thing where i'm at now is like i don't want to apologize for it anymore i i will apologize for it if it really if it really hurts you uh anybody not you specifically mark uh but there's people who are like oh come on why are you doing that why are you making that thing it's because that's that's part of who i am that's i i'm not gonna lie about it i'd like to see you lose your shit
Marc:I may, I think.
Marc:I think that'd be good for you.
Marc:I think that's going to be the real deciding factor for you.
Marc:If I'm going to make any prophecies or calls about the future, it seems like you'll be fine in life no matter what happens, but the real excitement will be when you're on stage and you either have to lose your fucking shit or cry.
Guest:Well, I don't want to do that, Mark.
Guest:I'm not going to go to that place.
Guest:I really can't imagine.
Guest:That's the closest I can get right here.
Guest:So that's just a logical joke I made.
Guest:It would be funny if I lost my shit right now in reaction to what you're saying.
Marc:I wouldn't expect it to.
Marc:You wrap pretty tight.
Marc:I've got composure.
Marc:Yeah, it's heavy composure.
Marc:Like even your t-shirt, it looks like it was folded properly.
Guest:That's really nice because I'm not, that's the thing, I folded it and I'm not good at folding things.
Marc:I'm pretty good because I think somewhere along the line, I think I fold my clothes like I work at a store.
Guest:I learned from a one girlfriend, like the worst girlfriend that I had taught me how to do laundry and fold clothes.
Marc:Why was she the worst?
Guest:Because she voted for George Bush.
Guest:She didn't think I was funny at all.
Guest:Like at the time I was funny a little, but the way that here's the sense of humor that we had in common was laughing at some jokes on friends.
Guest:Like that was it.
Guest:I played the guitar.
Guest:She was like, I don't like guitar.
Guest:Don't play that.
Marc:Like she was, she didn't like anything about you, but you were fucking her.
Guest:Yeah, that is correct.
Guest:We like doing crossword puzzles together.
Guest:We enjoyed crossword puzzles.
Guest:And also, you meet somebody, they're pretty, and they're pretty.
Guest:They like you.
Guest:And they're nice, and they like you.
Guest:And that was the trifecta that I needed in the beginning.
Guest:Stuff in common that came later, I was like, oh, well, this is the... I should get out of here.
Guest:I don't want to raise Catholic babies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So...
Marc:Or be with somebody that doesn't like you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And here's the thing.
Guest:I don't I don't care about you can be Catholic.
Guest:I don't have a problem with Catholics in general.
Guest:But I had a problem.
Guest:I had at one point I had a problem with this Catholic and didn't want to raise that Catholic babies.
Marc:But she taught you how to fold clothes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So she she helped me for that.
Guest:She was like the first girlfriend who was like, let's buy these clothes for you and teach you how to wear them.
Guest:And like so most of my wardrobe is some girlfriend taking me shopping.
Marc:That's nice.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I've had that, too, and then I learned how to shop for myself.
Marc:But, I mean, if I really think about being grateful for what women I've dated have given me, I think that's a nice way to do it.
Marc:Like, even my recently ex-wife, she got me sober.
Marc:The wife before that...
Marc:Oh, I'd have to think about that one.
Marc:My first girlfriend taught me how to squeegee myself off with my hands, which I never did.
Marc:Do you ever do that?
Marc:After we take a shower together, she'd just run her hands down and push the water into the tub before she dried herself with a towel.
Guest:Huh, no.
Guest:That sounds like a great idea.
Guest:Do you know what I'm talking about?
Guest:I do now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She showed me how to do that.
Marc:Another girl showed me how to have sex because she had a hard time having an orgasm, so she...
Marc:It was very demanding.
Marc:So that happened.
Marc:I never was not eased into the way to do that.
Marc:So I got to be grateful for that.
Marc:Another one taught me how to fight.
Guest:You mean mentally, mental fight, emotional fight?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not like fist fight.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You got to have that one sort of doormat-y person in your life that will take a lot of shit.
Marc:to realize what an asshole you are and that, okay, I don't need to use that.
Marc:It's like crowd work.
Marc:I know how to do crowd work.
Marc:I don't like doing it unless I have to, but I know how to do it.
Guest:Yeah, I like doing reactive crowd.
Guest:If people say things, I like to ask why they said things.
Marc:Yeah, have a conversation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I can't watch guys that do their whole show crowd work.
Marc:It's a waste of time.
Marc:I literally get to a point where if I watch a crowd work comic, a lot of times I'm like, you didn't prepare anything?
Guest:I mean, but there are some people who do but like Todd Barry has great jokes.
Guest:And then also when he goes into the crowd, I think it's like he's writing jokes on the fly.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But but that's you know, that's a part of his bit.
Marc:You know, he still maintains.
Marc:But some guys are just sort of like, well, what do you do?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And then it never ends.
Marc:And it's a nice talent to have.
Marc:And I'm not saying, you know, people aren't entertained by it.
Marc:But then I don't know what they really do.
Marc:They're just, you know, all they're doing is they're showcasing a skill we all have that we use when necessary.
Marc:You know, it's just supposed to be a little, what do you call it?
Marc:An arrow in the quill, not the entire thing.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Does that make sense?
Guest:That absolutely makes sense.
Marc:You have a record coming out.
Guest:I do.
Guest:It's called Vegan Mind Meld.
Guest:which combines everything about me that you might hate or that other people might love.
Marc:Who are you going after?
Marc:Now, you just went to Vegas, and you did the job of a comic.
Marc:Because this is the weird thing.
Marc:You can be an alternative guy because you're...
Marc:And I don't even believe in these separations.
Guest:Yeah, I never think of myself as an alternative.
Marc:Well, you're kind of nerdy.
Marc:You're like a genuine nerd.
Marc:You don't have to work very hard at it.
Guest:But I do.
Guest:I do work hard, but it does come naturally.
Marc:Yeah, it's just who you are.
Marc:But yet you're a joke writer, so you can just do the jokes.
Marc:So you were in Vegas.
Marc:How'd that go?
Guest:Vegas, I expected it to go potentially horrible because it's people from everywhere and a certain type of everywhere people, I assume.
Guest:But of the six or seven shows that I did, three of them had packed audiences, which were generally- Were you headlining?
Guest:I was in the middle.
Guest:Okay, that's a good place.
Guest:Can't lose there.
Guest:There was a gentleman, Harry Basil was the headliner.
Marc:Is he still doing all the things with the props?
Guest:He is.
Guest:Props and music and sound cues.
Marc:He doesn't still do the Tom Cruise thing, does he?
Marc:Oh, yes, he does.
Marc:He still dances in his underwear?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And does he do the lightsaber thing?
Guest:Yeah, he does do the lightsaber.
Guest:I think you know his act pretty well.
Oh, my God.
Marc:So he does the dance in Risky Business?
Marc:He's older than me.
Marc:Does he still lean enough to do that?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:You're leaner than him, certainly.
Guest:I mean, you're lean, but he's not.
Guest:I wouldn't describe him as lean.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:There's something so heartbreaking about that.
Marc:I mean, I used to see him at the comedy store back in maybe 87 whenever I was a doorman there.
Yeah.
Marc:And he used to do that, but he was younger and lean, and he used to put the glasses on and do the dance from Risky Business and then do the lightsaber thing.
Guest:People loved him.
Guest:People really responded to it.
Guest:He gets the audience involved.
Guest:He brings people up and has them act things out with him.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And how do you feel about it?
Guest:I think he does what he does.
Guest:It's fucking diplomatic.
Marc:There's something even more condescending about you being diplomatic.
Guest:I mean, it's not the comedy that I do.
Guest:It's not the comedy that I respond to the most.
Marc:You're going to go far in this business.
Guest:I mean, that's what I do in life now.
Guest:I've upset people in the past.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:When I started out doing comedy, I didn't have any.
Guest:I was just myself.
Guest:No filter, right?
Guest:Not at all.
Guest:Fuck that guy, yeah.
Guest:I was like, hey, I'm in my master's program.
Guest:And then a guy took me aside and he's like, these people don't even know what a master's program is.
Guest:Don't say it like that if you're going to say it.
Guest:It's condescending to them.
Guest:Yeah, what are you talking about?
Guest:But I didn't even know what.
Guest:I didn't know.
Guest:I was smart, but I was so unaware.
Guest:I've got to be honest with you.
Marc:I'm just baiting you, but I've gotten the same way.
Marc:I mean, when I hear that about Harry,
Marc:I'm glad that he's still okay and that he's still performing and that people are still enjoying what he's doing.
Marc:It's just knowing the evolution that I've had as a performer and as a person and growing as a creative voice that there's something that saddens me when people get stuck in that place.
Guest:And I mean, for and it's also it's Vegas.
Guest:So he's he's there doing his, you know, his Vegas.
Marc:That's where people.
Marc:Well, that's I mean, a lot of people, that's where they they want to be.
Marc:I mean, once you're a comic, see, that's the difference is that, you know, this is probably a guy who had a much bigger dream about where he would fit into the world of entertainment.
Marc:But, you know, by virtue of the fact that he probably is not going to write a script, he's not going to be offered a staff job, that if you don't make it huge... He actually does.
Guest:He prefers to be a director and screenwriter.
Guest:He has created some movies.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's, I think, more of his passion.
Guest:Which ones?
Guest:He has a vampire movie out now on DVD with Armand Assante in it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he wrote and directed some of Rodney Dangerfield's movies.
Guest:He opened for Rodney and wrote on some of his stuff.
Marc:All right, well, then I'm not going to feel bad for him.
Marc:Sounds like he's doing fine.
Guest:Not heartbreaking in the least.
Marc:Yeah, because I tell you, Armin Asante, it's hard to get him.
Guest:I can't get him.
Guest:You probably could.
Guest:I mean, I haven't tried, but I just thought, I mean, he's a guy I've heard of.
Guest:I assume I can't get him.
Guest:Send him a project.
Guest:I'll see what I can do.
Guest:I had a dream last night that Kathy Griffin called me on the phone and asked me if I was still in Vegas, and she's like, no, you're not there.
Guest:Can you get back in an hour?
Guest:I have a show.
Guest:And she's like, I love you.
Guest:I don't know why.
Guest:I have her book.
Guest:I'm about to read her book, but other than that, there's no...
Marc:To have Kathy Griffin kicking around your subconscious, that's telling somehow.
Guest:What is it telling?
Marc:I don't know, but she's a very specific type of personality.
Guest:I like her comedy.
Guest:I think she's a good storyteller.
Marc:Yeah, she's quite a force to be reckoned.
Marc:See, now I'm being good on that.
Marc:You're doing it.
Marc:You're doing it, yeah.
Marc:I pissed her off years ago.
Marc:Okay, we're good.
Marc:You good?
Guest:I feel good.
Marc:I'm glad you came.
Guest:I'm also glad I came.
Marc:It worked out.
Marc:I feel like I know you better.
Marc:That is definitely the truth.
Marc:And I like you all right.
Guest:Is that good?
Guest:That is the best.
Thank you.
Marc:Okay, folks, as many of you know, I have been through two marriages, and neither one of them are what I would call successful marriages because they're overt.
Marc:So I thought it would be appropriate to book a guest or a series of guests, this being the first of a series, this couple, to talk about marriages.
Marc:Now, this book, The Perfect Marriage, is by Jerry and Kathy McDowell.
Marc:Who I have here in the garage at the Cat Ranch.
Marc:Welcome, Jerry.
Marc:Welcome, Kathy.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you, Mark.
Marc:Thank you very much.
Marc:I thought the book was helpful, if not a unique approach to what most people would call the perfect marriage.
Marc:I would think people would be surprised when they read this at some of the things that you guys explore.
Marc:You have written several books.
Marc:One, some parents may know masturbation is okay.
Guest:Because it is.
Marc:It is okay.
Marc:Because it is.
Marc:You don't have to convince me.
Marc:I'm sold.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I guess some parents have this guilt they attach to that act.
Guest:Oh, do they?
Guest:So we're speaking to unenlightened people.
Marc:Now, what is the primary thrust of that book?
Guest:Well, it's just that at any age, masturbation is okay.
Guest:And if you see it in a toddler or, you know, just at any, whenever your kids start to explore their genitals, it should be encouraged and talked about and you should share in that in whatever way you can.
Guest:And I think empirically, my wife and I, we have a son, James, who we were able actually to study and teach him what we believe about masturbation.
Guest:So I think it's actually not philosophical, but it's actually very practical in the upbringing of a child.
Guest:We've done a lot of field work.
Marc:So you're saying that you showed your son how to masturbate?
Guest:absolutely i did absolutely i have no shame about that and i think he grew up day yeah it's a beautiful day yeah now i you know i'm i'm almost hesitant to ask about the other book uh or potty paradise potty paradise was uh that's basically a potty training video when our son was uh i believe three and a half it's a dvd and along with a book teaching book and uh again we documented our
Guest:Struggle to teach a boy how to poo-poo and pee-pee in the potty.
Marc:Well, that seems normal.
Marc:I mean, was there anything unusual about that?
Guest:None of this is unusual.
Guest:I find none of the books unusual.
Marc:Well, let's get to the current book because it most applies to me.
Marc:In The Perfect Marriage, how long have you two been married?
Marc:23 wonderful years.
Guest:Wonderful, wonderful years.
Marc:And you both... Well, okay, well, let's just get right into it.
Marc:I mean, how do you make it work?
Marc:That's a long time.
Marc:You've had one child.
Marc:How many children do you have?
Guest:We have one.
Marc:From what I understand, if I read the book...
Marc:You spend a lot of time apart, am I not?
Guest:Well, I think to throw out the major crux of the book is that relationships are stronger if you stay independent.
Guest:In our vows, Kath and I at our wedding vows, we said, I will never compromise myself for you.
Guest:And that was sort of the mandate that has made our marriage successful.
Marc:Well, that's interesting because usually it's the other way.
Marc:Usually it's I will do anything for you.
Marc:I'll be loyal to you.
Guest:But we won't.
Guest:And that's the difference.
Guest:We won't do anything.
Marc:Well, let's say he got sick.
Guest:Well, we've already discussed this, actually, and it depends how sick he got.
Guest:I mean, if he were to become unattractive and lose a significant amount of weight, I won't promise.
Guest:And I haven't promised to see that through with him.
Guest:And vice versa.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, my suspicion is Kath will be around, but I cannot ask her or demand that she owes me something because we are individuals.
Marc:What's the point of being married then?
Guest:uh to enjoy each other's company to have fantastic uh sex you do have good sex to raise a child we have amazing sex you've had good sex for 23 years yeah one of the things we did and when we first set up our home is we declared a sex room we built a sex room where we can basically act like animals it's basically a hard floor and some ropes and uh it's nothing soft in the room too no i think we are water bottles um
Guest:water bottles so we can stay hydrated there's a pillow but the pillow got a little grody so we threw it out right okay now you need a pillow remind me so you have a sex room how often do you have sex you don't mind me asking well one of the things we do i guess we have a bit of behavior modification in us is we uh promise each other we will have intercourse four times a month and oral sex at least three and uh so those are the
Guest:can oral happen oh yeah sometimes we can knock off you know a couple and an oral in a session right do you keep a tally or i mean absolutely oh that's scheduled every month yeah oh on a day and if i'm busy or if i'm out of town i'll have to catch up in february if i didn't perform in january or you know we can trade out you know it's very negotiable it's a very fluid economy does anything happen spontaneously
Guest:Oh, God, no.
Guest:It's so much more satisfying when we know exactly what we're in for.
Guest:Yeah, I think the expectations are there, and that's why marriages fail is because people don't have fair expectations or they don't speak their expectations.
Guest:With Kath and I, our cards, literally, we have oral sex cards or intercourse cards.
Guest:We even have a silent card.
Guest:For example, sometimes I feel like Kath doesn't let me talk, so I'll give her a silent card, and she has to be quiet for two hours.
Guest:While you're having sex.
Guest:No, no, anywhere.
Guest:Anywhere in the world.
Guest:I could get a silent card during this interview.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Kath had a lecture she was giving at the behavior psychology department.
Guest:It was a pretty big deal.
Guest:It was a big deal.
Guest:And she frustrated me because she wasn't listening about this argument we'd had about the carpeting.
Guest:So right before she went on stage, I gave her a silent card and she couldn't give the speech.
Guest:You honored him.
Guest:Of course I did.
Guest:It was time to be silent.
Marc:And you stood up there.
Guest:Silent.
Marc:And how'd that go over?
Marc:It was confusing.
Guest:It was definitely confusing for the crowd.
Guest:But I think ultimately, when I look back, I'm glad I didn't speak.
Guest:Yeah, because speaking to something you asked earlier, our first priority in our lives is to make each other happy.
Marc:I know it might not seem like it from what you're saying, but... I just don't know how I'm going to find somebody who's going to follow these rules.
Marc:I mean, some of them seem okay, but you're telling me that you find couples that...
Marc:that read this book and both people are on board?
Guest:Well, you know, one of the best things we put in our book is in-laws or friends are never welcome in our home.
Guest:No friends?
Guest:No friends.
Guest:Because it creates fiction and it creates tension.
Guest:So we always meet outside of the home.
Guest:The friends.
Guest:And in-laws.
Guest:It started with in-laws because Kat's in-laws are rather difficult.
Marc:All right, let's focus a little bit on child rearing here because you do have a son.
Marc:Now, where does...
Marc:Does he get to have friends over?
Marc:Does he know about all this stuff?
Marc:Is there the sex room and all this business?
Guest:Well, for the first eight years, there were no friends at the house because Kath was still breastfeeding.
Marc:Breastfeeding until eight years old.
Guest:Correct.
Guest:Just shy.
Guest:Just shy.
Guest:Is that right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:They had an incredible mother-child bond.
Guest:It was so beautiful, Mark.
Guest:There is nothing like seeing your child walk up to you and ask you for your teeth.
Guest:And you can see this, not to plug it, but you can see this in our DVD that comes with our book, Weaning Your Boy.
Marc:What about sex with the kids in terms of teaching him about sex?
Guest:We talked a little bit about masturbation in your last book, so when it comes to talking about... We have another book about that called Birds and Bees Talk, where we filmed ourselves teaching James about all the wonderful elements of becoming a sexual human being.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:What did you film?
Guest:Our sit downs with.
Guest:Yeah, our sit downs and and the series of exercises we did in front of him for him to really understand.
Guest:It's just hard.
Guest:He's he's a very visual boy.
Guest:You have to know how your children learn audio visuals like we would bring in some of cats dildos, for example, and we would go through average size penis to mutated penis or whatever.
Guest:But what have you?
Marc:What about the actual act of intercourse?
Guest:Lovemaking.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:How did we teach him that?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Well, when he was, I believe he was 16 years old and was still a virgin, and I ponied up some money and got him a prostitute.
Marc:That seems really old school and kind of crass.
Guest:A prostitute with a doctorate degree in sexuality.
Guest:And fully tested for all STDs.
Guest:And how'd that go for James?
Guest:He loved it.
Guest:Yeah, he had a great time.
Guest:He loved it.
Guest:And a beautiful woman.
Guest:Oh, she was lovely.
Guest:And still a family friend.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Still a family friend.
Guest:And we sat her down afterwards to find out just how she would rate his performance.
Yeah.
Guest:She was also part of our experiment on James.
Guest:We had a bunch of questions for her, how he performed, what were his hang-ups, because it all went into the book about birds and bees talk.
Marc:Now, I don't usually do this, but I'm not really a journalist, but after reading your book and knowing I was going to talk to you, and it's been very enlightening.
Marc:I'm not sure which way.
Guest:you know and i know you're i don't know what you mean by that well i i didn't know that people live like this i mean it's fairly specific and and i know you think it's uh in academia it's fairly common i can tell you that mark what what are you saying in the upper levels of education in the academy where we work yes there are many couples like us okay when you go to uh some seminar at a university this is going on well when i was you know doing some research on you on google
Marc:You know, I came upon a James McDowell, who I now know is your son.
Marc:He's in a fairly popular Marilyn Manson cover band called The Beautiful People.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:And I, after reading your book, I thought, well, you know, this kid deserves to have a voice.
Marc:And I've asked him to join us.
Marc:Let me let him in.
Marc:Hold on.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:All right.
Guest:This will go.
Guest:This will be as it is.
Guest:I guess this is what it is.
Guest:I haven't seen him at all.
Guest:Oh, man.
Yep.
Guest:Hello, James.
Guest:Hi, sweetie.
Guest:Hi, Mom.
Guest:Hi, Dad.
Guest:I haven't seen you in a few days.
Guest:I know.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:Excellent.
Guest:How are you?
Guest:That's a wonderful shirt you're wearing.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I made it.
Marc:I've been talking to your parents, James.
Marc:It's nice to meet you, and I appreciate you coming down today to do this, because I read their book, and I sort of browsed some of their other books, and I just think...
Marc:In the way I was brought up, which wasn't really that great either, that you got two parents who are psychologists.
Marc:I knew a lot of kids growing up as psychologists.
Marc:And, you know, these are their sex rooms.
Marc:They're up in your shit all the time.
Marc:Excuse me.
Marc:I mean, what was that like?
Guest:It was insane.
Guest:Just so crazy.
Guest:You guys can see a lot of it on my blog.
Guest:Can I plug my blog?
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:It's called perfectshmurfect.tumblr.com.
Guest:It deals with a lot of the... Do they know about that?
Guest:I think...
Guest:i think they do i've seen links to it i don't really uh care to go in there because i feel like i have a good relationship with my son so i don't want to dig up so that's one place you're not going to be intrusive and if i need to talk about my son that's on the internet that's it's that's his private to me that's his diary i wouldn't read my son's diary but you were having someone write a a basically a status report of his first sexual experience yet you're not going to read his blog
Guest:Because, again, boundaries are tantamount to successful relationships, and I feel like he's declaring a space on the web or net.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I've noticed you're not really talking here, James.
Marc:Now, do you have something to say to your parents in the sense of... Because I'm just curious.
Marc:There's a sex room in the house?
Guest:The sex room, yeah, we've had a sex room.
Guest:They installed it when I was five years old.
Guest:They speak of boundaries.
Guest:I don't really feel like you've ever had any boundaries.
Guest:It was soundproof.
Guest:That's not true, James.
Guest:You have complete freedom in our yard.
Guest:In the yard?
Guest:Yes, but I mean, we support you, but we don't invade your life, I don't think, do we?
Guest:Is he a dog?
Guest:Is he a dog in the yard?
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Well, the back area, we built a garage that is a wonderful studio apartment for our son.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:Is it a wonderful studio apartment, or is it like this?
Guest:It is pretty nice.
Guest:It is a pretty nice apartment.
Guest:We've done fairly well.
Guest:They won't let me move out, though.
Guest:I'm not allowed to go to college.
Guest:Why?
Guest:I wasn't allowed to go to college.
Guest:Too far away from the nest, they said.
Guest:Well, it's not, you know, we just, he's an adult now, he's over 18 years old, and we just don't think we should have to pay for college.
Guest:In fact, we are still waiting, and this is no pressure, James, but everything we've spent on you since you were... They invoiced me.
Guest:When I turned 18, they invoiced me for every expense that I've caused them since I was born.
Guest:But with no interest, so there's... What is that?
Marc:How much money was that?
Guest:I think it was 3.1 million dollars.
Marc:So you've got him basically staying at home, owing you $3.1 million, and you hold that over him?
Marc:And that's somehow appropriate?
Guest:And I didn't get any of the book money, even though all these books were written about me.
Guest:The book money will be yours when you're 39, okay?
Guest:And you get 2%.
Guest:2%?
Guest:Well, he didn't participate as a writer.
Guest:I think we're being very generous.
Guest:We've had lawyers have these deals in front of all of us, and I think they're very fair.
Guest:I don't feel like I'm exploiting my son if that's what you're saying James I support you whenever you do I've gone and seen many of your shows we built a wonderful space for you and your friends the kid deserves an education he deserves to be allowed out of the house we're not disallowing an education mark there are wonderful community colleges in our area and he can pursue that your teachers
Marc:right you're teachers yes sir you teach college yes sir all right so you got a son that you're going to send a community college you have money you've written books about him and you've he's obviously i feel like he's being held hostage well we're very old-fashioned i i'm old-fashioned you guys bring yourself up by your bootstraps we know the value of a dollar we know the value they say i'm an investment and they've put a down payment on me until i can pay them back
Guest:3.1 million dollars.
Marc:3.1 mil.
Marc:So, James, I mean, you know, I don't want to bring this up like this, but it sounds to me, in listening to them, that you could probably press charges for some of these videos.
Marc:I mean, you were like, what were you, 15?
Guest:They brought a prostitute over?
Guest:Well, technically, she was my dad's intern, so she was getting college credit for it, so I don't think that she's a prostitute.
Guest:She's not a professional streetwalker.
Guest:Did you pay her?
Guest:She got study hours.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:It's like a work study program.
Guest:I may have presented her as a prostitute.
Guest:She's not a prostitute.
Marc:Well, I guess what I'm saying, James, is I'm getting angry at your parents.
Marc:Aren't you angry at your parents?
Marc:I'm absolutely angry with my parents.
Marc:Well, then what are you going to do about it?
Marc:Continue to take it.
Guest:If you have an angry card on you, we would receive it.
Guest:I'm going to give you a hug card.
Guest:Okay, so now he's got a hug card.
Guest:Well, you have one.
Guest:What's the angry card?
Guest:An angry card is an index card that has the word angry on it.
Guest:And a frown.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And if James feels angry, he can present us with one of those cards.
Guest:And if I collect 10 of those within a week, then we have to have a sit down and talk about why he's angry.
Guest:Why can't we just sit down and talk about what I'm angry about?
Guest:Because I haven't received 10 angry cards.
Guest:Let's do it now.
Guest:I don't mean to be a stickler, but I need to see 10 angry cards in front of me.
Guest:We're not in your world now.
Guest:We're in my world.
Guest:But this is behavior modification.
Guest:We want to have a nice interview, but we just don't have all the cards.
Guest:If you want to spend them, if you want to use them, I have them on me.
Guest:Do you want me to hand them to you?
Guest:Of course I do.
Guest:I can't just talk.
Guest:I have a couple.
Guest:Of course I do.
Guest:I have a couple angry cards.
Guest:Let me see them.
Guest:I may just honor them, Mark.
Marc:You may just honor them?
Guest:Well, we have separate currencies.
Guest:We're out of your fucking minds.
Guest:I resent that.
Guest:Mark can give you two.
Guest:Okay, fine.
Guest:I guess we're now having an angry conversation.
Marc:Yeah, he'll go his eight, and I'll go two.
Guest:Fair enough.
Guest:You can have yours back, Mark.
Marc:Thank you for doing this.
Marc:You're giving it back to me?
Guest:You're damaging our economy.
Guest:Well, I don't...
Guest:I don't appreciate a lot of the things that you guys did when I was growing up, like the books and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Can I?
Guest:No.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I don't like that my potty training is out there.
Guest:People can watch that right now.
Guest:People I know, I don't like that...
Guest:My wiener doesn't work now.
Guest:Whoa.
Marc:What do you mean your wiener doesn't work?
Guest:Yeah, I haven't been able to sustain an erection since I was 17 years old.
Guest:Why is that?
Guest:Could that have something to do with the breastfeeding till you're eight?
Guest:The breastfeeding till I was eight, the family roundhouse masturbation.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Marc:Family brownhouse masturbation.
Guest:They said it wasn't a race, but I don't see any other point than a race.
Guest:The rules are the same as a race.
Guest:They get real mad and give me an angry card when I called it a race.
Guest:All right, Jerry, you can talk.
Marc:Thank you.
Guest:Explain yourself.
Guest:The roundabout was we would go into separate rooms, and we would just say go, and whoever reached orgasm first won the race, and they got a free ice cream sundae.
Marc:You had to bring proof.
Marc:What's the point of that?
Marc:This kid is so confused, he can't even find his anger.
Guest:I'm willing to talk about fixing the penis issue right now.
Guest:There's two-way glass.
Guest:The whole time growing up, there was two-way glass between my room and the sex room.
Guest:And for whatever reason, they installed that when they built it.
Guest:And I could see it out, but nobody could see it in my room.
Guest:I don't get that.
Guest:Why did you do that?
Guest:Well, that was just an honest mistake.
Guest:That was supposed to be a guest room.
Guest:And it was later covered with a poster of Mick Jagger.
Marc:Listen to your tone.
Marc:So now you're saying I can fix the penis problem?
Marc:You've caused this kid nothing but problems.
Marc:You can't fix anything.
Marc:You guys are ridiculous.
Guest:I don't believe we caused the dysfunction in his penis, Mark.
Guest:I truly don't.
Guest:What do you think it is, Jerry?
Guest:I think it's our society, if you really want to know.
Marc:I think you're in denial, and you both are a couple of freaks, and I'm amazed that anybody's buying your book.
Marc:I resent that term.
Marc:This is not a good interview at this point.
Guest:Give me an angry card.
Guest:This is name-calling.
Guest:You don't have angry cards.
Guest:I will give you an angry card.
Guest:Don't use that to come with me, Jerry, unless you have an angry card.
Guest:You have an angry card.
Guest:You don't even know what to do with them.
Guest:Jerry, be careful.
Guest:Take that card back, Jerry.
Marc:I'll take the card back.
Marc:You should be in a hospital.
Guest:The kid can move in here.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I'd love to.
Guest:We have done nothing.
Guest:Our child has never been molested.
Guest:We have fed him.
Guest:That's arguable.
Guest:We have clothed him.
Guest:We have never touched him.
Guest:We have never touched him sexually, ever.
Guest:He was breastfeeding until he was 80.
Guest:That is not a sex... Is breastfeeding a sexual thing to you?
Guest:After a certain point, it's just... It is to me.
Guest:Breastfeeding is absolutely a sexual thing to me.
Guest:I scour Craigslist every day looking for lactating women.
Guest:Does your business work for that?
Guest:No, it doesn't.
Guest:I get off on the shame, and I can only ejaculate from internal stimulation.
Marc:What does that mean?
Guest:Like massaging my prostate from inside of my body.
Guest:I understand.
Guest:Well, that's fine.
Marc:Let me just try to summarize a little bit here.
Marc:You two have a marriage where you're fairly separate.
Marc:Independent, but loving.
Marc:You have a sex room.
Marc:You sleep in different rooms, probably?
Marc:Yes, sir.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Okay, that's not so unusual.
Marc:You have a son here that you experimented on who can't get it up even when he tries to enjoy the one thing that he fetishizes, which is women who are breastfeeding and he can only have an orgasm by sticking his finger in his ass.
Marc:And he lives in a garage in the back and you say he owes you $3 million.
Marc:And somehow or another, you call this successful parenting and you say you have a successful marriage.
Guest:Well, if you paint it like that.
Guest:That wasn't a very rosy picture.
Marc:Are those all facts?
Guest:I think those are selective facts.
Marc:Okay, let me add a few other ones.
Marc:You have no talk Tuesdays.
Marc:You give each other anger cards and quiet cards.
Marc:And you don't allow friends or relatives in the house.
Marc:You have sex with interns and...
Marc:Okay, I don't want to be closed-minded, and I'm going to let my listeners decide what they want to decide.
Marc:So why don't you tell me the name of the book.
Marc:It's called The Perfect Marriage.
Guest:Perfect Marriage will be at the Pasadena Barnes & Noble, and you can also reach us.
Guest:How do you draw in Pasadena?
Guest:Very well, very well.
Guest:There's a big academic population there.
Guest:And we also have jerryandcalfphd.com.
Guest:And I'm sure, James, you have a show you'd love to promote or something.
Guest:Yeah, I have my band, The Beautiful People.
Guest:We're going to play at the Squash.
Guest:Can I just say something to your listeners?
Guest:They're not, the band is not very good.
Guest:So I just want to adjust the James.
Guest:This is just about me adjusting expectations.
Guest:My penis isn't going to work after this interview.
Guest:We have two original songs.
Guest:Two original songs.
Guest:It's a cover band.
Guest:He's a Marilyn Manson cover band.
Guest:Well, they play to a karaoke track.
Guest:I think he's wonderful.
Guest:I just think he's wonderful when you know what you're getting, which is something fairly mediocre.
Guest:Thank you, Mom.
Guest:You're welcome.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, Jerry, Kathy, James, I thank you for being my guest.
Guest:Thank you so much.
Guest:This was wonderful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I really enjoyed this.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Was it wonderful?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes, it was.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:James?
Guest:It was okay.
Guest:I appreciate the support.
Marc:Okay, buddy.
Guest:Do you need a ride home?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You guys want to let me drive?
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, I guess we learned something there.
Marc:You know, different strokes for different folks, I guess they say.
Marc:Or maybe they just say different strokes now.
Marc:They probably don't say the whole last part.
Marc:They might not say any of that, but that was interesting.
Marc:All right, here's a couple of things.
Marc:I want to get this out there before I forget.
Marc:One, obviously, we're going to be in Tempe tomorrow night.
Marc:That's if you're listening to this on the 8th.
Marc:Eddie Pepitone and I are going to be in Tempe at the Madcap Theaters.
Marc:You can go to madcaptheaters.com and sneak in there.
Marc:Also, did I say also twice?
Marc:I'm trying to get this guy.
Marc:I can't say he's my friend, but I feel like we're kindred spirits.
Marc:Brendan Burns.
Marc:He's an Australian comedian.
Marc:Works primarily in England and all over Europe.
Marc:He's the same generation as me.
Marc:I think he's a little younger.
Marc:But old school, provocative, thoughtful, aggressive comedy.
Marc:And I've heard a lot about him.
Marc:I kept missing his show in Edinburgh.
Marc:And I'm hoping to get him in here next week.
Marc:But I do know that if you're in Los Angeles and you're listening to this on the 7th or the 8th or even the 9th or the 10th of April, that Brendan Burns is going to be at the Unknown Theater.
Marc:On the 9th, 10th and 11th here in Los Angeles.
Marc:So you might want to look at that.
Marc:I think it'd be interesting.
Marc:I don't think these guys coming over from Europe, they don't get a lot of support here unless they get a lot of push from the business.
Marc:But there's a couple of cats coming around.
Marc:And America is a big country and they come out here.
Marc:And I don't know if people know they're here, but I generally don't either.
Marc:But, you know, I talked to Brendan, and I'm trying to get him on the show, and he said, look, you know, if you can get me on this week, and I couldn't, but I want to throw that out there.
Marc:He's going to be at the Unknown Theater the 9th, 10th, and 11th of April.
Marc:That's Brendan Burns.
Marc:I guarantee you he'll push your buttons.
Marc:He's aggressive, and he's in the thought-provoking, hypocrisy-ripping tradition of comedy.
Marc:So go check that out.
Marc:Also WTF pod.com.
Marc:If you go there, we've got a new mailing list and I've started, thank God I have an intern, but I'm starting to get responsible.
Marc:I'm going to be putting out a weekly newsletter.
Marc:So I encourage you to go to WTF pod.com and get on the mailing list.
Marc:Cause I got this new, pretty email thing that sends out these pretty well-organized, uh,
Marc:And I'm going to give you information on upcoming guests.
Marc:I'm going to give you information on my upcoming gigs.
Marc:I'm going to put special information only for people on the mailing list.
Marc:I'm going to offer special deals there for my shows.
Marc:Also, we're going to give you more background on the comedians and guests that we have on the show so you can see what they're up to and where they come from.
Marc:Because I know a lot of you are saying, like, play their bits.
Marc:I'm not going to do that.
Marc:But I will give you this information.
Marc:I will give you some stuff that you're not getting on the show if you go get on the mailing list at WTFPod.com.
Marc:Of course, go to punchlinemagazine.com to get all your comedy information, up-to-date things, interviews, stuff.
Marc:You know the story.
Marc:Someone remind me next time to talk about the Greek Easter.
Marc:I went with my housemate who's Greek and starting to think I should just marry her.
Marc:She already lives here.
Marc:You get along good.
Marc:Just got to cross that other thing into that other space.
Marc:I'll think about it.
Marc:You guys take care of yourselves.
you