Episode 591 - Amber Tamblyn / Keith Richards

Episode 591 • Released April 5, 2015 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Marc:All right, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you?

00:00:10Marc:What the fuckers?

00:00:11Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:12Marc:What the fucking ears?

00:00:13Marc:What the fucksicles?

00:00:14Marc:What the fuckleberry fins?

00:00:15Marc:What the fuck minster fullers?

00:00:18Marc:What the fucking ucks?

00:00:19Marc:Why not throw the Canadians in there?

00:00:20Marc:I am Mark Maron.

00:00:21Marc:This is WTF.

00:00:22Marc:It's my show.

00:00:23Marc:It's the podcast.

00:00:25Marc:It's where it's happening.

00:00:26Marc:Big show today.

00:00:28Marc:oh my god all right so last week i talked to mick jagger and it about blew my brain open uh today i got i get on the phone with keith richards who in look i i love mick jagger i love the rolling stones but keith richards is my guy you know i'm saying and i talked to dean about that i pulled dean back into it pulled him over here i felt like since i talked to mick that i could handle keith and i think i did handle it for about nine minutes and

00:00:56Marc:And then it was sort of like, I don't, I gotta go.

00:00:59Marc:I gotta go.

00:01:00Marc:I can't take it anymore.

00:01:02Marc:Perhaps if I sit down with Keith in the room here or in a room at his house for an hour or so, it would be fine.

00:01:09Marc:But just on the phone, I was like, I, there's so much.

00:01:12Marc:I don't, I'm experiencing feelings.

00:01:16Marc:My head's about to explode and I'm hitting a wall.

00:01:19Marc:But, uh,

00:01:21Marc:But you can't tell.

00:01:21Marc:You can't tell.

00:01:22Marc:I tried to be cool.

00:01:24Marc:And I told him where I was at.

00:01:26Marc:And I asked him where he was at.

00:01:27Marc:And it was good.

00:01:27Marc:So look forward to that.

00:01:29Marc:Amber Tamblyn is also on the show.

00:01:31Marc:She's got a book coming out.

00:01:33Marc:She's an actress, as you may know.

00:01:35Marc:Also, she's the wife of the wonderful David Cross.

00:01:39Marc:But she's got this beautiful and dark book of poetry coming out, Dark Sparkler.

00:01:44Marc:That comes out tomorrow.

00:01:45Marc:I talk to her.

00:01:46Marc:Before I forget, the Marination Tour starts officially on April 9th at the Warner Theater in Washington, D.C.

00:01:54Marc:There's still a few tickets for that left.

00:01:56Marc:The Trocadero in Philadelphia, both shows are sold out.

00:01:58Marc:The Wilbur in Boston, Massachusetts might be tickets for that second show on April 11th.

00:02:04Marc:In Madison, Wisconsin, tickets available April 16th at the Barrymore Theater.

00:02:09Marc:April 17th in Pittsburgh at the Carnegie of Homestead Music Hall.

00:02:13Marc:I believe you can get tickets.

00:02:14Marc:April 18th at the Royal Oak Music Theater in Royal Oak, Michigan.

00:02:18Marc:Yes, you can get tickets.

00:02:21Marc:Sunday, April 19th at the Bluma Appel in Toronto, Ontario.

00:02:26Marc:Early show sold out.

00:02:28Marc:Late show might be tickets.

00:02:29Marc:Not sure.

00:02:30Marc:Paramount in Austin on April 23rd.

00:02:32Marc:Think you can still get tickets.

00:02:34Marc:Fitzgerald's April 25th in Houston sold out.

00:02:38Marc:April 28th, Southside Music Hall, Dallas.

00:02:40Marc:You can get tickets.

00:02:41Marc:Friday, May 8th, Neptune in Seattle.

00:02:44Marc:Early show, sold out.

00:02:45Marc:Late show, might be tickets.

00:02:47Marc:The Vogue, Vancouver.

00:02:48Marc:Go get your tickets, please.

00:02:51Marc:That's May 9th.

00:02:52Marc:May 10th, Davies Symphony Hall in San Francisco.

00:02:55Marc:Please, Bay Area, go get your tickets.

00:02:58Marc:It's a big place.

00:03:00Marc:I sold a lot of tickets, but it's a big-ass place.

00:03:04Marc:Thursday, May 14th, the Orange Peel in Asheville, North Carolina.

00:03:07Marc:Early show sold out.

00:03:08Marc:Late show.

00:03:09Marc:Go get your tickets, Asheville.

00:03:12Marc:May 15th, Charleston Music Hall.

00:03:15Marc:Charleston, South Carolina.

00:03:16Marc:Go get them.

00:03:17Marc:A few tickets left.

00:03:18Marc:Saturday, May 16th, Variety Playhouse, Atlanta.

00:03:21Marc:A few tickets left.

00:03:22Marc:Get them.

00:03:23Marc:Sunday, May 17th, Joy Theater, New Orleans, Louisiana.

00:03:28Marc:Go get those tickets.

00:03:30Marc:All right, so that's the layout right now.

00:03:32Marc:All right.

00:03:33Marc:I just want you to know that I'm not pushing too hard, am I?

00:03:36Marc:OK, good.

00:03:38Marc:You know, a lot of times people ask me after the Louis episode.

00:03:44Marc:All right.

00:03:44Marc:So that episode, my episode with Louis C.K.

00:03:48Marc:that I did a few years back, was voted the best podcast ever in the history of podcasts by Slate.

00:03:55Marc:So every once in a while, people come up to me and go, what's going on with you and Louie?

00:04:00Marc:You all right?

00:04:01Marc:You and Louie all right?

00:04:03Marc:And as you know, Louie has had me on his show the last two seasons for an episode.

00:04:09Marc:So that would indicate that we're all right.

00:04:11Marc:Uh, but then like a weird thing happened on stage the other night.

00:04:14Marc:I was at the comedy store and I was doing well.

00:04:16Marc:I had a good week last week.

00:04:17Marc:I was feeling confident, feeling excited.

00:04:19Marc:Uh, uh, my comedy was going well.

00:04:22Marc:I had the right head space that, that I can get into it most of the time, but sometimes it's fleeting.

00:04:27Marc:But for some reason I was having a very good week and I was on stage in the original room at the comedy store must've been Wednesday night.

00:04:34Marc:Maybe I think it was Wednesday and

00:04:36Marc:And I'm like, the way the comedy store works is you go on and then you bring up the next guy.

00:04:44Marc:And sometimes it's the guy on the list, but sometimes that guy might not be here.

00:04:47Marc:So generally you ask Jeff, the piano guy, you know, who's up next.

00:04:51Marc:So I was about done, had a couple more minutes and I said, Jeff, who's up next?

00:04:55Marc:And usually he'll just tell you, but this time he walks over with a piece of paper, hands it to me as a special guest.

00:05:01Marc:I look at the piece of paper is Louis CK.

00:05:03Marc:So in that moment, I say, oh, yeah, this guy.

00:05:06Marc:I know this guy.

00:05:08Marc:I think I'm going to, you know, I think I'm going to do a few more minutes.

00:05:10Marc:I'm going to stretch it out a little bit.

00:05:12Marc:I'm going to work on some new bits right now.

00:05:14Marc:I was just being funny, being a dick.

00:05:16Marc:Obviously, I was kidding.

00:05:17Marc:But what was struck me.

00:05:20Marc:was there was another time in my career where if any of those guys would come in the room, like back when I was starting out in New York and I was finally getting spots at the Comedy Cellar, if Dave Attell or Louie would come into the room, I would tell them to get out.

00:05:37Marc:It would fuck my setup.

00:05:39Marc:Because in my mind, I'm not doing it for the comics.

00:05:42Marc:I'm trying to figure out how to perform for regular people.

00:05:45Marc:So if I saw Dave come in, I'd be like, get out.

00:05:47Marc:I don't want to deal with the pressure.

00:05:49Marc:Or if I saw Louis come in, I'd be like, come on, just let me do this by myself, please.

00:05:54Marc:But it was.

00:05:54Marc:It was an amazing sign of growth and friendship for me that I really wasn't threatened or intimidated or felt judged or nervous.

00:06:04Marc:I did a couple more minutes.

00:06:05Marc:I brought Louie up and he told this story about me that I had forgotten about, which is always nice to hear a story about you.

00:06:11Marc:He said he loved me and that we were buddies and it was very nice.

00:06:15Marc:But he told this story that I'd completely forgotten about.

00:06:18Marc:And I don't know how he, I must have told him or maybe he was over the morning that he came by the day it happened.

00:06:26Marc:But I used to live in New York City.

00:06:30Marc:I used to live on 2nd Street between A and B in 1989.

00:06:35Marc:So the Giuliani reign of control and police state had not occurred yet.

00:06:44Marc:And my street was a heroin street.

00:06:46Marc:And there was a heroin doorway literally right next to my apartment.

00:06:52Marc:There was this little store.

00:06:53Marc:I think it was a bookstore.

00:06:55Marc:Next to it was a bodega-type store.

00:06:57Marc:But they were selling heroin out of there.

00:06:58Marc:And there'd be point guys on either side of the street to manage the cops.

00:07:02Marc:And they'd have little calls and whistles to let the junkies know when to scatter and when the dealers know when to scatter.

00:07:09Marc:I ultimately ended up...

00:07:10Marc:Buying heroin in that doorway after a year and a half sobriety and then finally going, I got to see what that's like.

00:07:17Marc:Then it was a quite an ordeal.

00:07:18Marc:You got to go through the main guy, two guys at the door and then there's another guy inside and then a basket comes down and you put money in it.

00:07:24Marc:The basket goes up.

00:07:25Marc:It was quite an ordeal.

00:07:27Marc:Glad that didn't stick.

00:07:29Marc:So, well, anyway, so in front of this fake store, this front, this random bookstore slash bodega was a parking spot that you pretty much knew not to park in.

00:07:43Marc:The guys would run their little Honda bikes.

00:07:45Marc:They had those little Japanese motorcycles.

00:07:48Marc:Some of the guys involved be screaming up and down the streets at all hours.

00:07:51Marc:But, you know, you just didn't park there.

00:07:53Marc:It was a known thing.

00:07:56Marc:Well, one day, you know, I was driving around looking for a parking space.

00:08:00Marc:I had a car.

00:08:01Marc:You know, some of us held on to that dream in New York for a while.

00:08:04Marc:But I also had to go up north to work.

00:08:06Marc:I was not getting any work in New York.

00:08:07Marc:I was just doing sets at the Comedy Cellar.

00:08:10Marc:And maybe I don't even know if I was at that point.

00:08:12Marc:But I have to drive up to Boston in the New England area to get paid work every weekend.

00:08:19Marc:So I had this little VW Golf.

00:08:20Marc:And one night I was just driving around and around and could not find a parking space.

00:08:24Marc:And I just said, fuck it.

00:08:25Marc:I'm parking in the drug space.

00:08:27Marc:What could happen?

00:08:29Marc:I'll get it in the morning.

00:08:31Marc:So I parked there.

00:08:33Marc:And I get up the next day and I go out and my tires are flat.

00:08:37Marc:And there's dudes standing around.

00:08:39Marc:The dudes that work at the drug space.

00:08:42Marc:The drug doorway dudes are just hanging around.

00:08:45Marc:And I come out and I look at my car and they go, is that your car, man?

00:08:51Marc:I'm like, yeah.

00:08:52Marc:And they're like, gee, man, it's sad what happened, man.

00:08:55Marc:I don't know what happened, huh?

00:08:57Marc:so it's fucked up right and it was one of those things where i knew they did it but i had to sit there and go yeah it's it's pretty shitty that someone flattened my tires and they're like yeah maybe you shouldn't have parked there right and i'm like yeah well you know i just live right here i know so you should know you shouldn't park there i wonder who did this and i'm like okay all right i i get it i get it it's like straw dogs you know

00:09:22Marc:The movie.

00:09:23Marc:And I'm like, so do you know where I can get some tires?

00:09:26Marc:I got to get some tires on this thing so I can work.

00:09:29Marc:I'm like, yeah, there's a guy around the corner.

00:09:31Marc:And then I don't know why I did this, but I said, well, you keep an eye on the car.

00:09:34Marc:I'm going to go around the corner.

00:09:35Marc:So I run around the corner of this tire joint to get a few spares, see if I could get them.

00:09:41Marc:And I come back around and two of the dudes that were out in front of the place are now in my car.

00:09:46Marc:going through it, going through my glove compartment.

00:09:49Marc:And I'm like, hey, I'm right here.

00:09:51Marc:Can we get out of my car?

00:09:53Marc:And they're like, oh, sorry, man.

00:09:54Marc:We're just keeping an eye on it for you.

00:09:57Marc:It was just one of the most humiliating, horrible things that ever happened to me that didn't hurt me dramatically.

00:10:04Marc:But it was just, what a horrible feeling.

00:10:07Marc:And I changed the tires.

00:10:08Marc:But I'll tell you, the moral of that story, don't park in the drug space.

00:10:14Marc:I did not do that again.

00:10:15Marc:I learned my lesson.

00:10:19Marc:So Louis did a good spot, did some new stuff, and afterwards we talked and hugged and reconnected, and he was leaving town a couple days, and I heard from him recently.

00:10:30Marc:It was funny because I heard from him, I guess he was on his way back to New York.

00:10:35Marc:He was on the plane, and he took a picture of the United Entertainment Options.

00:10:39Marc:Uh, and, uh, there was a Louie and then there was something else.

00:10:44Marc:Then Marin, like right next to each other, just texted the screen with both of us on it.

00:10:48Marc:And he said, life is fucking bizarre.

00:10:51Marc:And I said, ha, is that United?

00:10:52Marc:He goes, yup.

00:10:53Marc:And I said, wild.

00:10:55Marc:That's actually the only place people can see my show.

00:10:57Marc:And he went, ha.

00:10:59Marc:But speaking of my show, let's talk honestly for a minute.

00:11:02Marc:Cause I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to pitch this again as well.

00:11:06Marc:My show Marin, the third season, premieres on IFC on May 14th.

00:11:11Marc:Now, I know a lot of you watch it on Netflix a year or so later.

00:11:17Marc:I know some of you watch it, you buy it on iTunes.

00:11:20Marc:I know there's a couple of other ways to watch it other than IFC.

00:11:24Marc:But I would urge you, and I'm not this guy, but I'm going to be this guy, be nice if you don't have IFC, maybe pick it up for a couple months during the running of my show because it would be nice to get some numbers there.

00:11:36Marc:You know, I'm glad that everybody watches my show.

00:11:39Marc:However you're going to watch it, that's fine.

00:11:41Marc:But if you watch it on IFC, then ratings happen.

00:11:44Marc:And that determines whether or not we do more or whether or not we're a success on that network.

00:11:50Marc:I think, look, I know that's old timey, but if you can find it in your heart to pick up IFC.

00:11:57Marc:for you know for may june and july uh that would be that would be very uh that would be helpful to me and you can watch my show as it happens in real time and they will be running marathons maranathons however you want to say it you know leading up to the premiere of the third season of the first two seasons

00:12:15Marc:All right, so you've been asked politely.

00:12:19Marc:Okay?

00:12:19Marc:All right.

00:12:21Marc:I'm about to share my interaction with Dean previous to the Keith Richards call and my conversation with really, I would say, the biggest hero I've had in my life since I can remember having heroes, Keith Richards.

00:12:35Marc:You can listen to me try to keep my cool and talk about guitars with...

00:12:40Marc:With fucking Keith Richards.

00:12:42Marc:And he sounds great.

00:12:43Marc:He sounds great.

00:12:45Marc:So as you know, the zip code tour tickets go on sale next Monday, April 13th for the Stones.

00:12:50Marc:But you can get them this Wednesday if you're an American Express card member.

00:12:55Marc:Alright?

00:12:56Marc:So here we go.

00:12:57Marc:Let's get into the lead up and the phone call with my hero, Keith Richards.

00:13:10... ...

00:13:12Guest:I'm so glad I'm here, dude.

00:13:14Marc:Dude, the response.

00:13:16Marc:Dude, the phone's going to ring.

00:13:17Marc:Keith Richards is going to be on the phone.

00:13:18Marc:What time?

00:13:19Marc:Oh, man, in a couple minutes.

00:13:22Marc:Whoa.

00:13:27Marc:Okay, okay.

00:13:27Guest:Oh, shit.

00:13:29Okay, okay.

00:13:34Marc:Hello.

00:13:35Marc:Hello, Mark.

00:13:37Marc:Keith Richards.

00:13:38Marc:Yeah, how are you?

00:13:39Marc:I'm great, man.

00:13:40Marc:How are you?

00:13:41Marc:I can't believe you're calling.

00:13:43Guest:Well, that's the job, man.

00:13:46Marc:I talked to Mick last week, and he asked me if I was going to talk to you, and I said I was.

00:13:50Guest:Yeah.

00:13:51Marc:Yeah, and we had a nice conversation.

00:13:53Marc:How are you guys getting along, all right?

00:13:55Guest:Yeah, man, I'm fine.

00:13:56Guest:I'm just, you know, I'm sort of just preparing for the road, you know?

00:14:01Marc:And what are you guys doing?

00:14:02Marc:You're rehearsing, like, every day or what, a couple days a week?

00:14:04Guest:Well, not at the moment, but we will be within a couple of weeks.

00:14:10Yeah.

00:14:10Guest:I'm not sure where yet, but getting ready for it.

00:14:14Guest:Oh, great.

00:14:14Guest:Where are you at now?

00:14:16Guest:I'm in Connecticut right now.

00:14:19Marc:So on an average day, do you sit around and play for a little while?

00:14:23Guest:Yeah, every day, a little bit.

00:14:25Guest:You know, it depends when the mood grabs me, you know.

00:14:29Guest:Sometimes the piano, you know, sometimes the guitar.

00:14:32Marc:And what are you playing, that big, like one of those Gibson, the Hummingbird, the big Gibsons?

00:14:37Guest:No, up at home, no.

00:14:39Guest:I got a couple of little Martin and a little Angel guitar.

00:14:47Guest:Oh, that's sweet.

00:14:47Guest:Yeah, they're really just nicer around the house, you know.

00:14:50Marc:Yeah, what's your main guitar when you're going out now?

00:14:53Guest:Well, I play the usual line-up, man.

00:14:57Guest:You know, my Telecasters and...

00:15:01Guest:A couple of Gibsons.

00:15:03Guest:Pretty much the same thing ever since.

00:15:05Guest:I can't remember when I didn't have them, you know.

00:15:09Marc:Do you still play with that 50?

00:15:10Marc:Do you still take that 52 telly out?

00:15:13Guest:Yeah, sure, man.

00:15:14Guest:He's my mainstay.

00:15:16Marc:Yeah.

00:15:17Marc:That's awesome, man.

00:15:19Marc:So this tour, you're going to do a few dates and they're all going to be big, but that Sticky Fingers reissue, that's pretty exciting.

00:15:25Marc:You excited about that?

00:15:26Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:15:27Guest:And that's why it's called Zip Code, you know, the tour.

00:15:31Guest:famous sip.

00:15:34Guest:Yeah, it's interesting it's coming out.

00:15:39Guest:I'm not sure how, you know, maybe we'll even try and play the whole damn thing on stage, you know.

00:15:46Marc:Yeah!

00:15:47Marc:I asked Mick about that because I heard a rumor that you guys were going to do that and he was like, I don't know if it's going to work out.

00:15:53Guest:No, we don't know.

00:15:54Guest:It's an idea.

00:15:56Guest:We won't know until we get into rehearsals.

00:15:58Marc:Well, what's the fear, do you think?

00:15:59Marc:You just don't know which songs you're going to click with again?

00:16:02Marc:What determines that?

00:16:03Guest:No, you've got to wait until you're actually all together and playing before you can really make decisions like that.

00:16:11Guest:So we'll give everything a bash.

00:16:16Guest:I'm learning Moonlight Mile again right now.

00:16:19Marc:Oh, that's going to be amazing.

00:16:21Marc:How about Sister Morphine?

00:16:22Marc:You on top of that?

00:16:23Guest:Yeah, that's one I've got down, I think.

00:16:29Marc:Me and my friend Dean Delray are sitting here, and we were listening to Talk Is Cheap.

00:16:34Marc:Do you ever think about playing any of those tunes?

00:16:36Guest:Well, with the Stones, no.

00:16:39Guest:I mean, it's a separate thing.

00:16:42Guest:Yeah, it's a great record, man.

00:16:47Marc:It's a great record.

00:16:50Marc:Now, when you guys go out, what's your regimen?

00:16:53Marc:Are you going to go on a bus?

00:16:55Marc:Do you guys still do a bus or no?

00:16:57Guest:No, we have a plane.

00:16:59Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:17:00Marc:Fuck the bus, right?

00:17:02Guest:Yeah, and it's quicker.

00:17:04Guest:Although, actually, sometimes we do take a bus just for the fun of it.

00:17:10Guest:You know, it depends on the ride, you know, what the distance is.

00:17:13Guest:Sure, man.

00:17:15Guest:Oh, let's take all afternoon and ride it by bus through the country, you know?

00:17:20Marc:Sure, man.

00:17:20Marc:Why not?

00:17:21Marc:Why not?

00:17:21Marc:It's nice to see the country when you're not being chased.

00:17:25Guest:Yeah.

00:17:26Marc:So how's Charlie doing?

00:17:31Marc:You guys all right?

00:17:32Guest:Yeah, Charlie's great, man.

00:17:34Guest:Yeah, I spoke to him the other day.

00:17:37Guest:I said, what are you doing?

00:17:39Guest:He says, I'm packing.

00:17:43Marc:And Ronnie's okay?

00:17:45Guest:Yeah, Ronnie's in fine shape, man, yeah.

00:17:48Marc:Now, I asked Mick, because I always wonder, because I actually haven't seen you guys live since 1981 in the Madison Square Garden.

00:17:55Guest:Oh, wow, you've been there.

00:17:56Marc:But I was wondering, when you're up on stage, did you ever catch yourself looking over your shoulder to see if Bill's there?

00:18:02Marc:Do you miss Bill?

00:18:04Guest:Um...

00:18:06Guest:Yeah, well, I miss him in the way, you know, as a mate.

00:18:10Guest:But with Daryl Jones, man, it's, well, you know, I'm enjoying so much playing with him.

00:18:19Guest:And as Daryl says, even though he's the new boy, he's been with us 20 years.

00:18:24Marc:Yeah, that's wild, man.

00:18:26Guest:Yeah, man.

00:18:27Marc:Now, do you actually hang out with Paul McCartney sometimes?

00:18:31Guest:Yeah, sometimes.

00:18:32Guest:Just a little here and there.

00:18:36Marc:Did you ever think about... Did it ever come up where you thought maybe we could jam together with Paul McCartney?

00:18:41Guest:Yeah, that often comes up, but we've never got around to it yet.

00:18:45Marc:And how about Chuck Berry, man?

00:18:46Marc:Are you still in touch?

00:18:48Guest:I haven't seen Chuck for a while, although I sent him a note a couple of weeks ago.

00:18:55Guest:But, yeah, as far as I know, he's all right.

00:18:57Marc:And are you thinking about having some guest players on the tour?

00:19:00Marc:Have you got anybody in mind?

00:19:02Guest:Yeah, I guess I'm...

00:19:04Guest:I think it's likely.

00:19:06Guest:I haven't thought about it.

00:19:07Guest:I thought maybe Mick might have mentioned more of that, because I don't really get into that until I'm there.

00:19:15Marc:What are your favorite songs to play?

00:19:16Marc:How does it feel to play Moonlight Mile again?

00:19:19Guest:Oh, that'll be fun.

00:19:20Guest:You know, I mean, it's been a while.

00:19:23Guest:But I could play Jumpin' Jack Flash all night.

00:19:29Marc:Yeah.

00:19:30Marc:And do you ever listen to, you know, I was asking Mick about it, you know, because I've been following you guys a long time, and I bought my first Telecaster because of you, and I started smoking cigarettes because of you.

00:19:41Marc:You changed my life, man.

00:19:43Oh, man.

00:19:44Marc:I started drinking Jack Daniels because of you.

00:19:46Marc:And then after I did all that, Keith, I learned how to play guitar.

00:19:49Marc:I started with the other stuff.

00:19:51Guest:Yeah, yeah, I get you.

00:19:52Guest:That's one way of approaching it.

00:19:58Marc:How far back do you go?

00:20:00Marc:What kind of records do you listen to every once in a while?

00:20:02Marc:You go back to the blues?

00:20:04Guest:Oh, yeah, quite often.

00:20:06Guest:I'm just always...

00:20:10Guest:You know, once or twice a week.

00:20:11Guest:Oh, really?

00:20:12Guest:Get a dose of the blues, put the channel, radio channel, the blues channel, or start to go through the old...

00:20:19Guest:you know pile of records and stuff and uh yeah always listen robert johnson muddy waters so i listen to all those cats all the time so do you ever think about like putting out a straight up blues record i know all the stones records are blues records on some level but yeah do you ever think about just stripping it down i don't know you know it's an idea that's always been sort of lurking in the background with the stones but uh

00:20:44Guest:I don't know if anyone, they got the balls for it.

00:20:49Marc:What could they be afraid of, Keith?

00:20:51Guest:I know, that's what I think.

00:20:55Guest:But I mean, hey, maybe it's just a matter of time.

00:20:58Guest:It might be the right time to do it next time we get in the studio.

00:21:03Marc:Yeah, why the hell not?

00:21:04Marc:Yeah.

00:21:05Marc:So now, what are you doing to prepare?

00:21:07Marc:Are you just rehearsing?

00:21:08Marc:You're not doing push-ups or anything, are you?

00:21:12Guest:You know, I wait.

00:21:13Guest:It's enough to get on the stage.

00:21:15Guest:That's enough exercise, man.

00:21:17Guest:No, I don't do anything particular.

00:21:19Guest:But, you know, I'm in pretty good shape, you know.

00:21:22Marc:You sound great, man.

00:21:23Marc:You sound great.

00:21:24Marc:You too, brother.

00:21:25Marc:What is that tuning?

00:21:26Marc:You're still playing mostly five strings, right?

00:21:28Yeah.

00:21:28Guest:Well, depending on the song, I mean, I guess it's about 50-50, really, when it comes down to it.

00:21:34Marc:And what's your favorite Stones record, Keith?

00:21:37Guest:Oh, the rough ones that pull on me, man.

00:21:41Marc:I'm sorry, but, you know, when you look back at it.

00:21:43Guest:Give me shelter, I love.

00:21:45Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:46Guest:Then, you know, Midnight Rambler.

00:21:49Guest:The best.

00:21:50Guest:I could go on, man, but, you know, give me shelter for this time.

00:21:56Marc:Oh, man.

00:21:57Marc:Well, you know, Keith, I don't even know what to say.

00:21:59Marc:This conversation might have changed my life.

00:22:02Guest:Not again, baby.

00:22:05Marc:We're all looking forward to the tour.

00:22:07Marc:It was great talking to you, man.

00:22:08Guest:Okay, you too, man.

00:22:09Guest:Take it easy.

00:22:10Guest:Bye-bye.

00:22:11Guest:See ya.

00:22:14Marc:Whoa, man!

00:22:15Marc:What the hell just happened?

00:22:17Marc:Dude, that was next level.

00:22:19Marc:Dude.

00:22:20Marc:Wow.

00:22:22Marc:What the hell just happened?

00:22:23Marc:And like, I probably could have talked to him longer.

00:22:25Marc:I know.

00:22:26Marc:I know.

00:22:27Marc:I can't believe you let him go.

00:22:29Marc:I was like, no, no, keep it going.

00:22:30Marc:I was like, keep it going.

00:22:33Marc:No, man.

00:22:35Marc:That was enough, right?

00:22:35Marc:Yeah, that was awesome, dude.

00:22:37Marc:Holy fuck.

00:22:44Marc:So I think that went pretty well.

00:22:47Marc:And I hope I can have a longer conversation with him at another time.

00:22:50Marc:That's all I can say.

00:22:51Marc:But it was funny.

00:22:52Marc:And I almost exploded.

00:22:55Marc:I almost exploded.

00:22:58Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.

00:23:01Marc:I don't know if a lot of you people know this, but I was a poet.

00:23:04Marc:I did some very important poetry work.

00:23:08Marc:Pow!

00:23:09Marc:I just shit in my pants.

00:23:10Marc:JustCoffee.coop.

00:23:11Marc:Available at WTFPod.com.

00:23:13Marc:A classic ad.

00:23:15Marc:that I decided to impulsively do at that moment.

00:23:20Marc:Classic WTF.

00:23:22Marc:Can I say that?

00:23:23Marc:Yeah, I was a poet.

00:23:24Marc:I thought that I was going to write poetry, not for a living necessarily, but as something that seemed to be...

00:23:31Marc:the uh the clearest way to the truth for me at a time back when i was in high school in college i edited the uh undergraduate literary journal journal one year i was published in it twice um i enjoyed writing poetry i'll still do it occasionally i enjoy reading poetry i don't always know what poetry to read

00:23:49Marc:And I've talked about poetry on this show before.

00:23:51Marc:And the woman who works, I think she's an editor of her poetry, the journal, sent me a bunch with actually post-its on the pages of the guy she thought I would like.

00:24:02Marc:And I did like it.

00:24:03Marc:I like reading poetry.

00:24:04Marc:So when Amber Tamblyn reached out to me and said she was going to write a book of poetry, I was like, yeah.

00:24:09Marc:Well, not said she was going to write it.

00:24:11Marc:She'd written it.

00:24:12Marc:And I was like, sure, let's talk about poetry.

00:24:14Marc:So I'm excited to share this with you.

00:24:18Marc:It's me and Amber Tamblyn, the actress and poet, talking about her new book, Dark Sparkler, which comes out tomorrow.

00:24:24Marc:And for those of you who live in the area here, she'll be at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery on April 24th for a book release event with Yola Tango.

00:24:33Marc:That band.

00:24:35Marc:Yeah.

00:24:36Marc:So that should be cool.

00:24:37Marc:So here now is me and Amber.

00:24:44Marc:Hi, Amber.

00:24:48Guest:Hi, Mark.

00:24:48Marc:It's nice to see you again.

00:24:49Guest:It's nice to see you again.

00:24:50Marc:I've seen you maybe three or four times.

00:24:52Guest:Yes.

00:24:52Marc:Never had a conversation with you.

00:24:54Guest:No.

00:24:54Marc:Hugged.

00:24:54Guest:Yes.

00:24:55Marc:Acted like, you know, hi, it's my friend's girlfriend, now his wife.

00:24:59Guest:Yes.

00:24:59Marc:And you're like, oh, you're that guy.

00:25:00Guest:Yes.

00:25:01Marc:Well, this is it.

00:25:03Guest:Yes.

00:25:03Marc:It's happening now.

00:25:04Guest:Yes.

00:25:05Marc:You ready?

00:25:05Guest:Yes.

00:25:07Marc:We've been out here for two days in Los Angeles where your parents are?

00:25:11Guest:Correct.

00:25:12Marc:And your childhood home?

00:25:14Guest:Yeah, that's right.

00:25:15Guest:Born and raised in Venice.

00:25:17Marc:Still the same place down there that they're living in?

00:25:20Guest:Still the same apartment, yeah.

00:25:22Guest:Same place.

00:25:22Guest:They've been there for 33 years, 35 years, I think.

00:25:25Marc:So it's like well-worn old furniture, art and books?

00:25:28Guest:Very much so, yeah.

00:25:30Marc:What kind of name is Tamlin?

00:25:32Guest:It's Welsh.

00:25:33Marc:Huh.

00:25:35Marc:And what, so is that what your background is?

00:25:38Guest:No, mostly Scottish.

00:25:40Guest:Scottish.

00:25:41Guest:Very Scottish.

00:25:42Guest:You can see that as soon as I start drinking bourbon.

00:25:46Marc:Oh yeah, what happens?

00:25:47Guest:I just get very mean.

00:25:47Marc:Are you incomprehensible in terms of how you speak?

00:25:51Guest:No, I just get like flirty and mean.

00:25:53Guest:It's the worst combination.

00:25:55Marc:I think maybe I saw you once like that.

00:25:57Marc:Yeah, and I was like, nah, I'm nervous.

00:26:00Marc:So they're both still down there?

00:26:02Guest:Yeah, they're still there.

00:26:04Guest:Married?

00:26:04Guest:Yeah, still married, yeah.

00:26:06Marc:Really?

00:26:06Guest:Yeah.

00:26:07Marc:After all the 60s.

00:26:08Guest:Yeah.

00:26:09Guest:Well, you know, and what came out of that was actually my dad, they're both on their third marriage.

00:26:15Guest:So they were both married twice before they met.

00:26:18Guest:And during in between or during one of those two marriages for my dad, he actually had a daughter that he never knew about that came knocking on the door one day when she was 17.

00:26:30Guest:I was, I think, like seven years old.

00:26:32Guest:Her name's China.

00:26:33Guest:She's my sister.

00:26:34Guest:But he never knew about her.

00:26:35Guest:And the reason is because her mother really didn't want to tell her daughter because her father was a womanizer at that time.

00:26:45Marc:Which was your dad.

00:26:46Guest:Yeah.

00:26:47Guest:And, you know, at that time in the 60s, it was all free love and people who were married also had mistresses.

00:26:52Guest:It just was a, you know.

00:26:54Marc:And your dad was like right in the middle of it, right?

00:26:57Marc:He was part.

00:26:58Marc:Let's talk about him for a minute because he was part of the studio system.

00:27:01Guest:Yes, very much so.

00:27:02Marc:And then he just went rogue like the entire industry, right?

00:27:07Guest:Yeah, he did.

00:27:08Guest:He was under contract at MGM and he'd been acting since he was nine years old and went to school on the MGM lot with Elizabeth Taylor.

00:27:17Guest:And, you know, just he had an incredible life.

00:27:20Guest:And then the 60s happened and he met Dennis Hopper and Neil Young.

00:27:25Guest:And, you know, they all moved up into Topanga Canyon.

00:27:28Marc:He was part of that crew?

00:27:29Yeah.

00:27:29Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:27:29Guest:Big time.

00:27:30Guest:Those are my goddads.

00:27:32Guest:Those dummies.

00:27:33Marc:Neil Young and... No, one of them's dead.

00:27:35Guest:He's still dumb.

00:27:35Marc:Who?

00:27:36Marc:Which one?

00:27:36Guest:Dennis.

00:27:37Marc:Oh, Dennis.

00:27:38Marc:Both of those guys are your goddads?

00:27:40Guest:Yeah.

00:27:40Marc:So, were they part of your life, your whole life?

00:27:43Yeah.

00:27:43Guest:Dennis much more when I was really young.

00:27:48Guest:Neil and Dean Stockwell really were more around a lot growing up, and Neil's daughter is one of my very close friends.

00:27:57Guest:We're both named Amber Rose.

00:27:58Guest:And your dad remains friends with him?

00:28:01Guest:Yes, yeah.

00:28:02Marc:Well, that's nice.

00:28:03Guest:Yeah.

00:28:04Marc:He seems like a pretty earnest, authentic guy, that Neil Young fella.

00:28:08Marc:So does Stockwell, actually.

00:28:09Guest:Yeah, they're complicated dudes.

00:28:11Marc:Yeah, that's what makes him interesting.

00:28:14Marc:So, and you started acting when you were a kid.

00:28:18Guest:Yeah, 11.

00:28:19Marc:On a soap.

00:28:20Guest:Yes.

00:28:21Marc:And that was shot here?

00:28:22Guest:Yeah.

00:28:22Marc:Was it like the only soap shot here?

00:28:24Guest:No, there was a... What was it?

00:28:25Guest:Which one?

00:28:26Guest:General Hospital.

00:28:29Guest:There was a couple of them, I think.

00:28:31Guest:I honestly don't know.

00:28:32Guest:That's one of those things, too, where I think people assume because you were on a soap opera that you know other people on soap operas.

00:28:38Guest:So I'll always have someone come up to me and say...

00:28:41Guest:Do you know, you know, Gold Weathersmith from One Life to Live?

00:28:47Guest:I'm like, who the fuck is that?

00:28:49Guest:That's an awesome name.

00:28:50Marc:I was 11.

00:28:51Guest:Yeah.

00:28:52Guest:Like, no, I don't.

00:28:53Guest:I don't know.

00:28:53Guest:I'm not buddies with everybody else from Soaps.

00:28:56Marc:Because I read a good portion of the book and I read the back part, which seems more autobiographical.

00:29:03Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:29:03Marc:The epilogue.

00:29:04Marc:And, like, I've read some poetry.

00:29:06Marc:I've written some poetry in my life.

00:29:07Marc:I like it.

00:29:08Marc:Some of it was a little painful.

00:29:11Marc:And all of it is a little dark.

00:29:14Marc:I know that there's light within it.

00:29:17Marc:But the meditation on the death of actresses, particularly young actresses, over the course of the history of show business.

00:29:25Marc:You all right?

00:29:27Yeah.

00:29:28Guest:You're actually talking to a ghost right now.

00:29:30Guest:Are you okay?

00:29:31Guest:I'm dead inside.

00:29:33Guest:Yeah, I'm good.

00:29:35Guest:This book was what got me there.

00:29:38Guest:That's the exorcism right there.

00:29:41Marc:Dark sparkler.

00:29:41Guest:Yes.

00:29:42Marc:But having been acting since you were 11 and having success at it throughout and doing big and small parts in television and in movies and being brought up in it, even some of the emails you shared at the back of the book with your father...

00:29:57Marc:What was it that created the meltdown?

00:30:02Guest:Well, it's interesting because...

00:30:07Guest:I thought that I was writing a book about the lives and deaths of child star actresses and and actresses that had sort of succumbed to death in one way or another, whether it was suicide or they had murdered or whatever before the age of 40.

00:30:19Guest:And that's what it originally started out as.

00:30:23Guest:And just in the research of it and the research of these women.

00:30:28Guest:Over time, the book took six years to write.

00:30:31Guest:And so about three years in after studying them, I really started to unravel.

00:30:37Guest:And I was sort of thinking that I was studying them from a distance.

00:30:40Guest:And I really wasn't at all.

00:30:42Guest:I was in a way studying myself because I was studying the interior lives of these women.

00:30:46Guest:Yeah.

00:30:47Guest:And learning so much about them and seeing a lot of similarities and also this sense of when are you allowed to ask yourself the question?

00:30:55Guest:If you've been acting since you were that young, when are you allowed to ask yourself the question whether that's actually what you really want to do or not?

00:31:01Guest:And I had never asked myself that question until I started writing this book.

00:31:06Marc:And that's at how old are you?

00:31:08Guest:31.

00:31:09Marc:Well, that's good.

00:31:10Marc:It didn't happen when you were 40.

00:31:12Marc:Maybe you're going to avoid the fate.

00:31:14Yeah.

00:31:14Guest:Right.

00:31:15Guest:I do feel like the book in its, you know, in its study and in its journey actually was a death for me, which is what I had to embrace.

00:31:23Guest:I think in Western culture, there's so much emphasis on death is a very negative thing and it's a very literal thing.

00:31:30Marc:And that if you contemplate at the very least, it's a final thing.

00:31:33Guest:Yes, yeah, but also that we're not supposed to think about it, talk about it, say you want it, say you're interested in it, that it means something to you.

00:31:43Guest:And for me, this writing of this book was the shedding of a skin and was the death of me as a child actress, which is something that had been really hard in my adult life was separating myself from that and seeing myself as an actual adult and treating myself that way.

00:32:02Guest:Yeah.

00:32:02Marc:Well, show business, like the one thing that kind of runs through the book and also I imagine through your life and I think probably through your father's life, especially somebody who is coddled by the studio system.

00:32:13Guest:Yeah.

00:32:13Marc:Is that there is this idea of validation.

00:32:16Marc:There is this parental sort of almost, it's not even godlike, but it's sort of like, do I look pretty?

00:32:21Marc:Am I doing good?

00:32:23Marc:Like there's this weird, almost childlike, it's infantilizing.

00:32:27Yeah.

00:32:27Guest:Yeah, it's very much us.

00:32:29Guest:It's very much as a culture projecting onto people.

00:32:32Guest:I mean, that's what celebrity celebrity ism is.

00:32:34Guest:And that's also what these people have.

00:32:37Guest:And I have experienced to a certain extent as well is just the sense that you are a you are projected upon and you also for a living project.

00:32:46Guest:So you that's what you do is you are not yourself for a living.

00:32:49Guest:And then in your personal life, you are also not allowed to be yourself because everybody else is going to look at you and tell you and treat you.

00:32:56Marc:They have their own relationship with you based on their idea.

00:32:59Marc:Correct.

00:32:59Marc:But just the fact that so much of being an actor is about validation.

00:33:06Marc:It always sort of strikes me.

00:33:08Marc:I used to do a joke where I used to say, it took me years to learn that Hollywood wasn't my parents.

00:33:14Marc:That you're sort of...

00:33:15Marc:I like that.

00:33:17Marc:Well, it's weird, though, because when you call your manager, you call your agent, or you're trying to go out on things, the conversation is like, am I good?

00:33:25Marc:Was I good enough?

00:33:26Marc:Am I funny?

00:33:27Marc:Do you love me?

00:33:28Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:33:30Marc:And I think the entire culture is infantilized on some level, but to be an actress and to be in that rare air of being insulated and protected like that, there's the outside and the inside of the individual and what people bring to it, but there's also this weird emotional relationship with the fucking business and expertise.

00:33:45Marc:Because it seems to me a lot of the sad end to a lot of these people psychologically is just the nature of being abandoned by themselves and by the business in a way.

00:33:59Guest:Really, it's the abandonment of the self.

00:34:01Guest:You're touching on exactly what...

00:34:04Guest:was what i learned out of all of it which was just this idea of you know and even in the writing of the book as i was writing about dead actresses and i was drinking a ton and i was taking on purpose on purpose and taking as many pills or like things that i thought was gonna get me closer to them and understand what method writing yeah i thought that that was a great choice um

00:34:27Guest:And in trying to say, what does it feel like to be that numb?

00:34:31Guest:What did it feel like for them?

00:34:33Guest:Which didn't help me write shit.

00:34:35Guest:It didn't help at all.

00:34:35Guest:It just made me out of my mind.

00:34:37Guest:It doesn't generally help.

00:34:39Guest:No, it doesn't.

00:34:40Guest:It was not very Charles Bukowski about it.

00:34:44Guest:You got to live it.

00:34:44Guest:It did not work for me.

00:34:45Guest:It might have worked for that guy, but I was like.

00:34:49Marc:I think that was his first love.

00:34:51Guest:Yes.

00:34:52Okay.

00:34:52Marc:The life has got to be the first love if you're going to live that life.

00:34:56Guest:Yeah.

00:34:56Marc:You can't just kind of dabble in it.

00:34:57Guest:Yeah, exactly.

00:34:58Marc:You should have become a real drug addict.

00:35:00Guest:Yeah.

00:35:01Guest:But I kept telling myself, I kept saying, why is this happening to me?

00:35:04Guest:Why is all of this stuff happening to me?

00:35:06Guest:Why is, you know...

00:35:09Guest:Why can't I?

00:35:11Guest:Why don't I want it?

00:35:12Guest:Why am I not killing in my auditions anymore?

00:35:14Guest:The way that when I was a kid, I just I could kill.

00:35:16Guest:I could walk in a room and kill it.

00:35:18Guest:Why wasn't that happening?

00:35:19Guest:Why wasn't I getting, you know, the jobs that I wanted that I did go in and I thought I killed for?

00:35:25Guest:Why?

00:35:25Guest:Everything felt like it was happening to me and that I wasn't happening to anything else.

00:35:30Guest:Right.

00:35:31And.

00:35:31Guest:The realization and the study of that and this and, you know, by proxy studying all these women was that that was unequivocally not true and that I was not taking ownership for my own life because for so many years.

00:35:47Guest:I had no identity in a certain sense.

00:35:49Guest:That had not been nurtured.

00:35:51Guest:I didn't know how that was supposed to get nurtured.

00:35:54Guest:And this is from a chick with awesome parents who were still married and cool and whatever, and had a great artistic upbringing.

00:36:00Guest:And even within myself, in my mid-20s, I was thinking, who am I?

00:36:06Guest:I've already lived 10 lives, and I'm only like 25 years old.

00:36:11Guest:Right.

00:36:11Guest:And I want to quit and I want to end.

00:36:14Guest:I would like to end.

00:36:15Guest:I would like to know what it feels like to cease.

00:36:17Guest:Yeah.

00:36:18Guest:And that became a very attractive mantra to me.

00:36:21Guest:And I know that sounds like I'm saying I was suicidal or something, but that's not it.

00:36:26Guest:It was just the sense of stopping, of stopping after you've been going for so long.

00:36:32Marc:Right.

00:36:33Marc:And also with having a fragile sense of self, I've talked about that before, about suicidal ruminations.

00:36:45Marc:And I don't usually bring up my jokes, but I think maybe you would enjoy them.

00:36:50Marc:uh i used to say that you know it's not that i i i don't want to kill myself i just find it relaxing to know that i can right if i have to well that's a really beautiful way of looking at it it's a spiritual reprieve of a faithless person yeah and a very self-centered person yeah it's not so much like because real suicidal people they they kind of mean business yeah but uh those of us who are just you know it there it's there's a there's a

00:37:14Marc:There's a difference between I want to be done and a deep sense of sadness for yourself.

00:37:21Guest:Yeah, very much so.

00:37:23Marc:So, well, Jesus Christ.

00:37:25Guest:Well, it was that idea, too, of why is everything happening to me and why are all these things going wrong?

00:37:31Marc:Why isn't it happening for me was the real question.

00:37:35Guest:Right, but the truth of the matter was is that I needed to stop.

00:37:37Guest:That that's what the universe was telling me, that I was telling myself.

00:37:44Guest:nothing is happening for you here because this is dead to you.

00:37:48Guest:Acting.

00:37:49Guest:Well, not even acting, but the machine in which I was brought up in and the way in which I was brought up in, which was to kill in an audition room and was to have no opinion other than to know how to kill in an audition room.

00:38:02Guest:And that's it.

00:38:03Guest:That's all I knew how to do.

00:38:04Guest:And it was my way of saying, you will not survive this because there's so much more I wanted to do.

00:38:12Guest:I wanted to direct.

00:38:13Guest:I wanted to...

00:38:14Guest:write a book that was important that was that showed what kind of writer I could be I wanted these things I just didn't know how to make them happen and so instead it was just like oh just keep doing the same thing you're always doing which is don't try to go outside of the box don't try to be bigger or better or prove to yourself that you can do more and ultimately that's exactly what I needed to do was to stop acting for a fucking minute just take a damn breather yeah

00:38:44Guest:And that's when everything started to change.

00:38:46Marc:Sure.

00:38:46Marc:When he's like, you sort of start, you know, how do you take a breather and you stop and you realize you have to stop giving a shit for whatever reason.

00:38:52Guest:Right.

00:38:53Marc:That's when everything starts to happen.

00:38:55Guest:Yeah.

00:38:55Marc:When you're like, fuck it.

00:38:57Marc:And you really believe it.

00:38:58Marc:But like to separate from that idea of like, because it must've been that thing.

00:39:02Marc:I know it from being a kind of mid-level celebrity myself.

00:39:08Marc:And I just achieved mid-levelness.

00:39:12Marc:So you're constantly making those calls.

00:39:16Marc:Am I going in on that?

00:39:19Marc:Why am I not going in on that?

00:39:20Marc:Who's going in on that?

00:39:21Marc:And when you hear yourself, I would imagine...

00:39:25Guest:run that shit through your mind now in retrospect you're like what a fucking waste of life yeah what a waste of time yeah it's it's a sense of just hitting uh you know hitting a wall over and over again and um uh and that's very much what i was doing i was i was uh cutting off my nose to spite my face i was telling myself this is all i'll ever amount to right uh because i don't have any control right i don't i don't i

00:39:52Guest:I can only do that.

00:39:54Guest:I can only make the phone call to my agent and put everything into their hands and go, why isn't this working out?

00:39:58Guest:Why isn't this happening?

00:39:59Marc:And then you start to think that they're your friends or something.

00:40:03Marc:Yeah.

00:40:04Guest:Well, I mean, in the book, you know, I was with an agency for a huge agency for 15 years.

00:40:11Guest:And, um,

00:40:12Guest:I remember this was right around the time I took, like I said, the book took six years to write, and I took a year off in there.

00:40:17Guest:And it was right around this time.

00:40:19Guest:It was also when David and I got married.

00:40:21Guest:It was a really weird fucking year.

00:40:23Guest:It was an awful, awful, awful year, the year we got married.

00:40:25Guest:Yeah.

00:40:26Guest:That was the only good part of it.

00:40:28Guest:Everything else was terrible.

00:40:30Guest:Uh-huh.

00:40:30Guest:I had like a parting with an agency that was terrible.

00:40:33Guest:Didn't care about the, you know, could care less about the movie that I had written that, you know, I had the rights for that.

00:40:42Guest:I had good financing relationships and had people attached like Alfred Molina and Janet McTeer.

00:40:50Guest:And there was like no sense that they cared.

00:40:52Guest:Did you make it?

00:40:53Guest:Yeah.

00:40:53Guest:Made it in December.

00:40:54Guest:And it's fucking awesome.

00:40:55Marc:When's it coming out?

00:40:56Guest:I'm still editing it.

00:40:58Guest:We're almost done.

00:40:59Guest:Molina's in it?

00:41:00Guest:Yeah.

00:41:01Marc:And you directed it?

00:41:02Guest:And I directed it and I wrote it.

00:41:03Guest:Wow.

00:41:04Guest:But that didn't happen until I left that agency.

00:41:07Marc:They're not going to do anything.

00:41:08Guest:They're not, but that's exactly right, where you start treating them like friends.

00:41:12Guest:That's the wrong thing to do.

00:41:13Guest:But also when you're, I think, a kid actor, your sense of boundaries with adults is so blurred, and you also are constantly trying to get approval.

00:41:25Guest:Yeah.

00:41:25Guest:Did I do good in the scene?

00:41:27Guest:Did I I knew all my lines?

00:41:29Guest:You know, there's a real terrifying sense of boundaries with adults.

00:41:34Guest:And so that's something I very much took into my adult life in my around that time, which is how I could have stayed for so long with people that did not care.

00:41:42Marc:Right.

00:41:43Marc:But also your, your dad was in it.

00:41:45Guest:Yeah.

00:41:46Marc:Like there was like, there was sort of like a, and it, it broke his heart.

00:41:49Marc:It really did.

00:41:50Marc:I could see that just in, in that email exchange, which should be sort of an uplifting email exchange where he's basically like, yeah, you're great.

00:41:57Marc:And you'll get, maybe it'll be a comedy next time, but it's horrible in a way.

00:42:01Marc:Do you know what I mean?

00:42:02Marc:Like, cause he knows it so intimately.

00:42:04Marc:He knows the heartbreak.

00:42:05Marc:He knows the disappointment.

00:42:06Marc:Yeah.

00:42:06Marc:He's been through it all before yet.

00:42:08Marc:He's not able to tell you like, get out, Jesus, get the fuck out.

00:42:12Guest:Yeah.

00:42:13Marc:Did he ever say that?

00:42:15Guest:No.

00:42:15Guest:But, you know, he also for him, it was really painful because he, you know, went back to Topanga in the 60s, did all that.

00:42:23Guest:And then he tried to cut when he had me and he married my mom.

00:42:27Guest:He tried to get into acting again in the 80s and nobody knew who he was because he'd been gone for 20 years, 15 years.

00:42:35Marc:This before Twin Peaks?

00:42:36Guest:Way before Twin Peaks, yeah.

00:42:38Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:42:39Guest:I mean, he had been gone for anywhere from 10 to 15.

00:42:42Guest:What was he doing?

00:42:43Guest:He was in Topanga.

00:42:44Guest:He was doing art.

00:42:45Guest:He was part of the Semina culture movement.

00:42:46Guest:And he's a beautiful collage artist.

00:42:49Guest:I mean, he's had work all over the world.

00:42:51Guest:And it's why I also dedicated the book to him, because it's important that even my dad at 80 years old sees that...

00:42:59Guest:That's not the only thing he is just because that's what he's most known for acting.

00:43:03Guest:He's he's also been working on a biography for, you know, 10 years.

00:43:08Guest:And so I wrote a dedicated to him as an author because that's what matters is that he also does not accept his own pigeonholing.

00:43:16Marc:Right.

00:43:16Guest:And knows that he is a value beyond beyond that part of his life.

00:43:21Marc:The acting.

00:43:22Guest:Yeah.

00:43:23Marc:It's so bizarre.

00:43:24Marc:It's so specific how it fucks with your head.

00:43:27Guest:Yeah.

00:43:27Marc:Like, even in that piece about, like, when you were a kid and you were at that party or something and Leonardo DiCaprio was there.

00:43:35Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:43:35Guest:That's a true story.

00:43:36Marc:The night where you, what, that was your first kiss night?

00:43:38Guest:Yeah.

00:43:38Marc:But the detail that was interesting is that you were dressed like a chola because you sort of aspired to that.

00:43:43Guest:Like, there's this weird thing when you... Well, growing up in Venice, too.

00:43:45Guest:I mean, those were my only friends.

00:43:47Yeah.

00:43:47Marc:Right.

00:43:47Marc:But like there's but that sense of of wavering identity.

00:43:52Guest:Yeah.

00:43:52Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:43:53Marc:You know, and the fact that you got into acting, you know, so young and you were supposed to sort of become other people for a living, but you never took the time or you never had the inner workings to be good with yourself.

00:44:07Yeah.

00:44:07Guest:Childhood is also a real time of introspection.

00:44:11Guest:It's really when you're supposed to be... When your inner life is finding itself and who you are, who you want to be is very much defined by...

00:44:24Guest:the actions of your life and by the relationships you have with people.

00:44:28Guest:And I just didn't have normal versions of that whatsoever.

00:44:32Guest:Mine were always trying to appease adults.

00:44:35Guest:And I had a job that my, you know, that none of my friends had that I had to be responsible for.

00:44:41Guest:I paid the bills.

00:44:42Guest:I mean, that's, that was my life.

00:44:44Marc:And how out there were your folks?

00:44:46Marc:I mean, were you in Topanga?

00:44:48Guest:No.

00:44:48Guest:No, no, no.

00:44:49Guest:That was, Topanga was, I think, for my dad, like, in the 60s.

00:44:53Marc:So your parents, so he's been married to your mom for a little longer than you've been alive.

00:45:00Guest:Yes.

00:45:01Guest:They've, and they, yeah, they moved to Venice with, actually, with Dennis Hopper and his then wife in the early 80s.

00:45:12Guest:Yeah.

00:45:12Guest:Like, 80, 79, something like that.

00:45:14Marc:Yeah, Hopper, that must have been wild to have him around.

00:45:19Guest:Yeah.

00:45:19Marc:An old buddy of mine, I think, married one of his daughters.

00:45:23Marc:I don't know which one or from which... Isn't there a couple of... Yeah, he's got some kids.

00:45:31Marc:Yeah.

00:45:32Guest:And Henry, his son, is a real sweetheart.

00:45:35Guest:And I actually hadn't seen...

00:45:37Guest:i hadn't seen henry since um since dennis died and it was a very tough ending for him and i ran into henry just randomly i remember on um abbot kinney i hadn't seen him in maybe 10 years yeah and uh we just hugged each other and cried on the street i mean and i hadn't seen the kid in so long and i just it was really wild well there's a very like it's

00:46:01Marc:The type of childhood you guys had is so specific.

00:46:06Marc:It's not like you can run into anybody like, God, when we were kids, we all did this because that crew of people that grew up with those parents who were out of their minds in the 60s and were actors and the way that all that changed and specifically show business, there's only like, how many of them are you?

00:46:22Marc:There's this small crew.

00:46:24Marc:Really?

00:46:24Guest:Yeah, I would imagine.

00:46:26Guest:And I don't know.

00:46:27Guest:I actually don't know any other.

00:46:28Guest:I don't have friends that are, you know, like I know Rashida Jones, but I don't really know her that well.

00:46:35Guest:But I imagine she had some version of that.

00:46:37Marc:Right.

00:46:37Guest:But like we don't we've never talked about that.

00:46:39Guest:I don't know.

00:46:40Guest:Right.

00:46:41Guest:There's no there's no crossing over of.

00:46:43Marc:Yeah, it's like the Zappa kids.

00:46:45Marc:Yeah, right, right, right, right.

00:46:46Marc:These are worlds into themselves.

00:46:48Marc:Yeah.

00:46:48Marc:Quincy Jones, could you imagine that being your dad?

00:46:50Marc:I know.

00:46:51Marc:And then when you talk to these people, they're like, yeah, he's just my dad.

00:46:54Marc:I'm like, no, he can't.

00:46:55Marc:I can't be real.

00:46:56Marc:He's like that guy.

00:46:57Guest:There's no way his dick made you.

00:47:01Guest:No way.

00:47:02Marc:Well, it's just like you get these ideas because in the minds of civilians,

00:47:08Marc:These people are sort of immortal.

00:47:09Marc:There's no way for me to even assess Neil Young as just a guy.

00:47:15Marc:Even though I interviewed tons of people here, I'm still sort of like... If he was sitting across from me, you just would be... Well, I'd be like, holy shit.

00:47:24Marc:But they all turn out to just be guys.

00:47:26Marc:And these guys, people find the time to do the work and then they just eat and go to the bathroom like other people and wander around.

00:47:33Guest:Yeah.

00:47:35Guest:That's what I was trying to say in my book.

00:47:37Marc:I get it.

00:47:39Guest:Let me really drive it home for you, Mark, okay?

00:47:42Marc:Well, which one out of all these?

00:47:43Marc:I had to look up some of them.

00:47:45Guest:Some of them are fake, too.

00:47:47Marc:Yeah, and this is... She must be thrilled about that.

00:47:51Guest:That's the number one question I get for interviews is that.

00:47:56Guest:Mark is holding up my book to me, and he's showing me the poem for... Each poem is titled after the actress, so this one's for Lindsay Lohan, and it's just a blank page.

00:48:07Marc:Not very optimistic.

00:48:08Guest:Well, so my question to you would be, what does that mean to you?

00:48:13Guest:You don't think it's very optimistic.

00:48:15Marc:Well, I think I feel that I don't like the sordid tabloidization of things that much.

00:48:24Marc:There's part of everybody that's sort of like, ooh.

00:48:27Marc:But being a sober person myself, with somebody like her, there's just this part where you're like, you don't have to go down like this, however it's going to go down.

00:48:38Marc:But they've been saying this for years about her.

00:48:40Marc:There's no way it can end well.

00:48:42Marc:And they're probably not gonna end well, but it could go on for longer than anyone anticipated.

00:48:46Guest:What were you like when you were 18 years old?

00:48:50Guest:Like, were you a nightmare?

00:48:52Marc:No, I was very sensitive.

00:48:54Marc:Very sensitive.

00:48:55Marc:I don't think I became a nightmare until about 21.

00:48:59Guest:Right.

00:49:00Marc:You know, I'd say that when your husband, David Cross... Never heard of him.

00:49:05Marc:...met me in college... Is he bald?

00:49:07Marc:Yes.

00:49:08Marc:Well, you know, I think he's still got some on the sides, but... And in other places.

00:49:14Marc:He's a hairy man.

00:49:15Guest:He's a hairy guy.

00:49:15Marc:Well, he's not really, like, he's not that hairy, like not Italian hairy, but he's got that weird nipple hair, right?

00:49:21Yeah.

00:49:22Guest:I don't think he has nipple hair.

00:49:23Marc:Oh, okay.

00:49:24Marc:Maybe I'm thinking another guy that I knew back in the day.

00:49:26Guest:That's also named David Cross with nipple hair?

00:49:29Marc:No, we'd go to the beach, Dave and I, with a group of people.

00:49:32Marc:I kind of remembered, I thought I remembered that.

00:49:34Marc:Maybe it's a detail.

00:49:35Guest:I wonder if he laid on the beach and got sunburned and then I shaved his whole body, if it would just...

00:49:41Marc:He's got it on his shoulders.

00:49:42Marc:He doesn't.

00:49:43Guest:He doesn't really.

00:49:44Guest:I mean, he's got some on his chest and stomach.

00:49:46Guest:I think it's on his stomach.

00:49:47Marc:Right.

00:49:47Marc:Yeah.

00:49:48Marc:Yeah.

00:49:48Marc:It's scattered.

00:49:49Guest:It's scattered.

00:49:50Marc:I remember Dave.

00:49:51Marc:Well, the point being, I met Dave when I was in college and he was in college.

00:49:54Guest:I don't know how we just went from Lindsay Lohan to my husband's chest hair.

00:49:59Marc:Well, it's a few easy steps.

00:50:03Marc:You're asking me how was I when I was 18.

00:50:05Marc:And I was telling you that I didn't start losing control of my life until... Because we were talking about Lindsay and I thought that's where you were going.

00:50:11Guest:It is.

00:50:11Guest:And I brought it up to say that what she has gone through when she went through as a teenager is insanely normal.

00:50:18Guest:There was nothing about the behavior that was different, weird, strange.

00:50:22Guest:When I was her age, when I was 16...

00:50:24Guest:When I was 13, I crashed my parents' car.

00:50:28Guest:I got my nipples pierced when I was 16.

00:50:30Guest:I was a nightmare.

00:50:32Guest:I was a crazy kid, meaning that there was nothing that crazy about her other than she just was living the life of a real teenage girl very, very, very publicly.

00:50:43Guest:Right.

00:50:43Guest:So my my reasoning for putting that poem in there like that was to say, I'm not going to project on you what everybody else does.

00:50:51Guest:And I'm going to let people project onto this page what they feel.

00:50:54Guest:It's really sort of a statement about that exactly, about how we sort of look at someone and go, here's your fate.

00:51:00Guest:You're going to be this.

00:51:01Guest:You're going to be that.

00:51:02Guest:You know, you're going to end this way because she's the ultimate the ultimate personification of that.

00:51:09Marc:Right, but in the context of this book, it doesn't seem like it.

00:51:14Guest:Right, but the book isn't just about deaths.

00:51:17Guest:It's also about glamorization and projection and how people are treated as objects.

00:51:24Guest:So in that vein, my statement to that was just like...

00:51:29Guest:I'm not going to write the poem for you where you die, but I am going to put your name in here because everybody else does.

00:51:36Guest:So I'm going to go down the same road, but I'm just not going to say what your ending is going to be.

00:51:41Guest:I'm not going to do that to you.

00:51:43Guest:Whereas everyone else is like, she's probably going to die in a couple of years.

00:51:46Guest:Let's be honest.

00:51:47Marc:Okay.

00:51:47Marc:I get it.

00:51:48Marc:But outside of all those other themes, I mean, most of these, it doesn't end well for anybody in here.

00:51:53Marc:Really?

00:51:54Marc:Does it?

00:51:56Guest:It might end well for her.

00:51:57Marc:No, but I'm talking in general the tone of the book.

00:51:59Marc:I mean, you know, the exploration was what happens to these women.

00:52:02Marc:And what did you find ultimately, like as you did all this research and some of the stuff at the end of the book where you showed what you had to search and what the research was.

00:52:11Guest:Yeah.

00:52:12Marc:How were you not going to become more depressed and horrified?

00:52:15Guest:I was depressed and horrified.

00:52:17Marc:And what was Dave doing during all this?

00:52:19Marc:Was he helping me out?

00:52:21Worrying.

00:52:21Guest:worrying about me um you know he I even have a poem for him in there where he's and he did the wife poem yeah that's sweet yeah he says uh and he did say to me I remember when I was halfway through it researching dead actresses um and he said don't please don't get obsessed

00:52:39Guest:And at that point, I was far, far into obsession land.

00:52:42Guest:I mean, there was just no turning back from it.

00:52:45Marc:And you couldn't define what the obsession was?

00:52:46Marc:What was it exactly that was driving you?

00:52:49Marc:What was the morbid fascination?

00:52:51Marc:What did you think you were going to arrive at?

00:52:55Guest:I was in admiration of their deaths.

00:52:58Guest:I was in admiration of the idea of non-existence, of stopping.

00:53:03Guest:When I go back to that same theme, it was like... And the idea of...

00:53:10Guest:being immortalized in that way.

00:53:12Marc:Well, I didn't know so many of these.

00:53:14Marc:And that one, when I started looking people up, I think the first one I looked up was Judith.

00:53:21Guest:Judith Barsi.

00:53:22Marc:So sad.

00:53:23Marc:Yeah, it's brutal.

00:53:23Marc:It's horrendous.

00:53:24Marc:And I'm like, I don't know if I can do this whole book right now.

00:53:27Guest:Yeah, it's tough.

00:53:28Marc:And some of these women lived longer and had longer careers than just childhood actresses.

00:53:34Guest:Very true.

00:53:34Guest:And there's some of them, like Frances Farmer, she doesn't technically fall into the guidelines of what the book is, which is women around my age that died, which is ultimately what the whole thing is.

00:53:45Guest:I wasn't going to write about anyone in their 40s or whatever that had lived.

00:53:49Guest:In the 30s felt like that was the group of women.

00:53:53Guest:And 30 and below was the...

00:53:56Guest:group that interested me because that's what I was closest to.

00:53:59Guest:So that's what I could relate to.

00:54:00Guest:Right.

00:54:00Guest:But Frances Farmer, you know, she died in her late 50s.

00:54:03Guest:But a lot of people said she was in and out of mental institutions for a very long time when she was younger.

00:54:08Guest:And there, you know, she's infamously someone who potentially was lobotomized.

00:54:13Guest:So I had this crazy idea of what if what if I wrote a poem from the idea that Francis farmer's been dead since she was 28 years old and now she's just a zombie and Walking on a red carpet with like her pieces of her body parts falling off and no one recognizes They're just like Francis.

00:54:28Guest:What are you wearing?

00:54:30Guest:Yeah, and she just you know There's like black worms coming out of her mouth and which is kind of you know sometimes I look at red carpets I look at these women and

00:54:38Marc:Yeah.

00:54:38Marc:If you squint, you can see the worms.

00:54:40Guest:Yeah.

00:54:40Guest:Who are my peers?

00:54:41Guest:And it's like, you know, everyone's just trying to get back to their birth weight.

00:54:46Guest:You know, it's like, it's insane.

00:54:47Marc:Yeah.

00:54:48Guest:You can see right through them.

00:54:50Marc:Yeah.

00:54:50Marc:It's scary sometimes.

00:54:51Marc:Yeah.

00:54:52Marc:It's a little disturbing.

00:54:53Guest:Yeah.

00:54:55Marc:Show business, man.

00:54:56Guest:Yeah.

00:54:57Marc:What the fuck?

00:54:58Guest:It's fucked up.

00:54:59Marc:It is, right?

00:55:00Guest:Yep.

00:55:01Yep.

00:55:01Marc:Let's go through more of these.

00:55:02Marc:Jane Mansfield, Brittany Murphy, that was sad.

00:55:06Guest:Yeah, that was the first one that I wrote.

00:55:08Marc:Really?

00:55:09Guest:That's where it started?

00:55:09Guest:That was the catalyst.

00:55:10Marc:Did you know her?

00:55:11Guest:I didn't at all.

00:55:13Guest:This book was a complete accident.

00:55:15Guest:I wrote this piece for Brittany.

00:55:18Guest:She's the only one in the book who was a contemporary peer of mine, meaning I never knew her, but we always went on the same auditions.

00:55:26Guest:The only time I ever was in proximity of her...

00:55:30Guest:Proximity to her was when we both went in for an audition for 8 Mile and she ended up getting that movie.

00:55:34Guest:But I remember she came out of the audition room and I went in.

00:55:37Guest:So we passed each other.

00:55:39Guest:Never met her, but I thought she was incredibly talented.

00:55:42Guest:And the mystery surrounding her death that still remains really fascinated me.

00:55:49Guest:And it also fascinates me that people move to Los Angeles specifically with the idea that they want to become famous.

00:55:57Yeah.

00:55:57Guest:Somehow.

00:55:59Guest:Somehow.

00:55:59Guest:But she was an example of somebody, if you read interviews with her, all that stuff, she knew since she was a little kid she wanted to be an actress.

00:56:06Guest:That's what she wanted.

00:56:08Guest:Her mother moved her out to Los Angeles when she was young.

00:56:10Guest:She worked really hard.

00:56:12Guest:She got there, and then as most people do...

00:56:14Guest:You know, the fame goes away.

00:56:17Guest:That sort of blast of beginning fame when you first get it, it goes away.

00:56:21Guest:And then you're sort of stuck with whoever you are and what you've turned into during that time.

00:56:26Guest:And either you hate that or you're okay with it.

00:56:30Guest:But that takes a lot of work.

00:56:31Guest:So to me, I wrote that piece.

00:56:35Guest:Sort of to say, you know, it was a it was a love letter in a sense to say from one girl who was born and raised here who has a totally me who has a totally different relationship with Los Angeles than most people do.

00:56:47Guest:I don't hate it here.

00:56:48Guest:I don't feel lonely here.

00:56:50Guest:I don't I don't get the sense of.

00:56:53Guest:Hollywood is the only thing that matters about Los Angeles.

00:56:56Marc:The creepiness, you don't feel the creepiness.

00:56:58Guest:I don't feel the creepiness as much.

00:57:01Guest:To somebody who lost their life there and then after the fact, I remember seeing her on the cover of People Magazine in this

00:57:08Guest:Long, beautiful silver dress.

00:57:12Guest:Just gorgeous.

00:57:13Guest:Just totally immortalized.

00:57:15Guest:Like Brittany Murphy, you know.

00:57:17Guest:The life of a star.

00:57:19Guest:Lost so soon.

00:57:20Guest:And they always write that shit, right?

00:57:22Guest:Right.

00:57:22Guest:And nobody wanted to talk about the epidemic of drug use.

00:57:27Guest:Nobody wanted to write about or talk about all the different drugs, the things.

00:57:31Guest:Or if they did, it was always salacious.

00:57:33Guest:Nobody really wanted to address.

00:57:35Marc:Whatever that fucking relationship she was in.

00:57:37Guest:Whatever was going on there.

00:57:38Marc:What the hell was going on there?

00:57:42Marc:Because that's the underside of this machine here.

00:57:44Marc:As much as the glamour and the movies and the upside of it, I would argue a more powerful dark side

00:57:55Marc:That's being marketed even harder.

00:57:58Marc:Yeah.

00:57:59Marc:Because just along with that article, they didn't want to cover that.

00:58:02Marc:But I guarantee you, if you went to TMZ or any of those other ones, they're all up in that shit.

00:58:07Guest:Yeah.

00:58:09Marc:And everything's like... I had this weird moment where I'm like, when they started doing Inside Hollywood and those kind of new shows, I was like, they're not supposed to do that.

00:58:20Yeah.

00:58:20Marc:Yeah.

00:58:21Marc:That's... I can't... People... We're supposed to... They're the makers of the illusion.

00:58:26Marc:That's right.

00:58:27Marc:Don't drag their garbage out into the world.

00:58:29Marc:That's right.

00:58:30Marc:Can we protect them somehow?

00:58:32Guest:That's right.

00:58:32Marc:That's very... But then I'm guilty of it.

00:58:33Marc:I'm guilty of it.

00:58:34Guest:Well, we're all guilty of it.

00:58:35Guest:I mean, that's part of it, you know?

00:58:37Marc:It's getting me all brokenhearted.

00:58:38Guest:And I remember when...

00:58:39Guest:And I read her autopsy.

00:58:42Guest:I mean, I read everything.

00:58:43Guest:All these women, I've read all their autopsies.

00:58:45Guest:But hers and the way they found her crumpled up in the shower, laying on the ground.

00:58:51Guest:And I just thought, that is the most heartbreaking thing I've ever heard of a girl who just...

00:58:56Guest:followed her dreams so hard she followed it right into death into this lonely position in this lonely way and she couldn't get work and you know it's the worst case scenario it's the thing you go to bed at night dreaming will never happen to you uh like it's your worst fear is that no one will want you anymore who is heather o'rourke

00:59:16Guest:Heather O'Rourke was in the movie Poltergeist.

00:59:20Guest:Yeah.

00:59:20Guest:And actually Heather and the other one that's in there, you know, she says it's sort of written like a movie scene.

00:59:27Guest:Yeah.

00:59:28Guest:Heather was in Poltergeist with Dominic Dunn.

00:59:33Guest:That's who it is.

00:59:34Marc:Oh, she's dead too.

00:59:35Marc:That was her older sister.

00:59:36Guest:It's so weird.

00:59:37Guest:They were both in Poltergeist together.

00:59:39Guest:And Dominic Dunn was murdered.

00:59:44Guest:And Heather O'Rourke died of some very strange, like a lung infection or pneumonia.

00:59:49Guest:They weren't really sure, but she was very, very young.

00:59:52Guest:But they were both in that movie together.

00:59:53Guest:And they died...

00:59:55Guest:sort of close, I think, closely after each other.

01:00:01Marc:Was that the one where they built the condos on the Indian graveyard?

01:00:06Guest:Oh, yes, that is it, yeah.

01:00:07Marc:They shouldn't have done that.

01:00:09Marc:Yeah.

01:00:09Marc:That's caused nothing but pain for everybody.

01:00:12Guest:The other one in there... Yeah.

01:00:17Guest:Those poor people.

01:00:18Guest:Yeah, it's just a mistake.

01:00:20Guest:It's just sad.

01:00:22Guest:Yeah, the other one?

01:00:24Guest:The one that killed me was the Bridget Anderson Savannah piece.

01:00:30Guest:Yeah.

01:00:30Guest:Bridget Anderson was a child actress in a movie called Savannah Smiles, which was a very popular film.

01:00:40Guest:But she grew up and couldn't get work in her teens and then committed suicide on purpose, but did a ton of drugs and ended up overdosing and dying.

01:00:50Guest:And then Shannon Michelle Wisely was a porn star.

01:00:55Guest:Her screen name was Savannah.

01:00:57Marc:Right, she used to date Polly?

01:00:59Guest:Yes.

01:00:59Guest:Yeah.

01:00:59Guest:And she shot herself in the head.

01:01:01Marc:Oh, my God.

01:01:02Guest:But what was so interesting, when I started researching her, the connection between these two women was, and I'd read all this stuff about Shannon, and I finally got this weird, I got my hands on this weird book, this weird autobiography of her, and I'd learned, which is why I wanted to cover her, because she was- Savannah?

01:01:19Guest:Yeah, because many porn stars try to get out of the business and try to get into acting.

01:01:23Yeah.

01:01:23Guest:the porn industry.

01:01:25Guest:And so she was talking about that and she'd really tried hard before she killed herself to become an actress.

01:01:32Guest:And then there was this one little quote in the book where they say, where did you get the name Savannah from?

01:01:36Guest:And she said, oh, my favorite movie growing up was Savannah Smiles.

01:01:41Guest:I love that movie about a young girl that runs away from home and then everyone comes and gets her and saves her and her family comes and rescues her.

01:01:48Marc:Oh, it's just heartbreaking.

01:01:50Guest:Yeah.

01:01:50Guest:And if she had...

01:01:52Guest:Only known the irony of that connection, been able to see it, to see how these patterns unfold when you don't do any work on your interior life.

01:02:07Guest:You know, there might have been some different hope for her.

01:02:10Guest:I like to think that, but that's me again.

01:02:12Guest:That's my own projection.

01:02:13Marc:So you were really in it.

01:02:16Marc:You were really completely obsessed, making connections.

01:02:21Guest:And that's why I started to write fake actresses.

01:02:23Guest:It was to supplement a way for me to get out my own thoughts and feelings about maybe things I'd been through, but also just the worst thing I could imagine, the worst thing I could make up in my head, and then to write a poem for that.

01:02:35Marc:Well, thank God for the epilogue.

01:02:36Guest:Yeah.

01:02:37Marc:Where you sort of come out of it in a way.

01:02:40Guest:Yeah.

01:02:40Marc:And at least, like, it seemed like the one part of it, like, you had to go out of your way to be, like, ground yourself.

01:02:46Guest:Yeah.

01:02:48Guest:Well, that's what the search list is, too, which took so fucking long to put together.

01:02:53Guest:But it's just a series of...

01:02:57Guest:every single actress that I could find in the National Archives and across the world.

01:03:03Guest:And I had my assistant Jessica and Harper Collins and this woman who works at the National Archives.

01:03:11Guest:I was finding every single name in recorded history around the world of an actor, of an actress who died before the age of 40.

01:03:20Guest:And just to list them.

01:03:21Guest:And that's what we did.

01:03:22Guest:So I'd be hard-pressed...

01:03:24Guest:for anybody to look at this book and tell me a name that I forgot that's not in there.

01:03:28Marc:Well, hopefully that's not who's coming to the book.

01:03:32Marc:God forbid someone says, I think you missed.

01:03:35Guest:No, but the point in saying is that all of them you don't recognize.

01:03:41Guest:It's that celebrity, the infamy of that...

01:03:45Guest:state of mind of that celebrity of, oh my gosh, I didn't, you know, I didn't get this or I'm not being featured in this or I'm, you know, that attitude, none of it matters.

01:03:54Guest:And that none of their celebrity deaths mattered.

01:03:57Guest:All that mattered was their interior life.

01:04:00Guest:And that giving, so giving voices to that is in a way some sort of post-mortem healing, I think.

01:04:09Marc:I think so.

01:04:10Marc:I agree with you.

01:04:11Guest:Or that at some point somebody will read it and go like, wow, that's, you know, interesting way to look at it.

01:04:17Marc:Well, when did you start writing poetry?

01:04:20Guest:I started when I was for real is when I was 12.

01:04:23Guest:I had written a poem called kill me so much, which was early feminist political.

01:04:31Guest:I just use the F word on your show.

01:04:32Marc:It's okay.

01:04:34Marc:I can handle it.

01:04:34Guest:What the Feminist.

01:04:35Guest:Yeah.

01:04:36Guest:It's going to be the offshoot.

01:04:37Guest:I'm going to do an offshoot podcast.

01:04:38Marc:What the Feminist?

01:04:39Marc:Yeah.

01:04:40Marc:You should.

01:04:40Marc:It's needed now.

01:04:42Guest:It'll just be me and Kathleen, Hannah, and a bunch of dildos.

01:04:45Marc:There you go.

01:04:47Guest:It was even at that time, and it's in my first book.

01:04:49Guest:I've put out three books now, but the first one was poems I'd written from age 12 to like 21.

01:04:56Guest:And it was very much a...

01:05:01Guest:An ode to my writing mentor, Jack Hirschman, who's the poet laureate of San Francisco, and another person I was raised around, a lot of the beat poets, because my dad was good friends with them.

01:05:10Marc:Which ones?

01:05:11Guest:Lawrence Ferlinghetti, Michael McClure, Diane DePrima, that whole... The ones that were still alive.

01:05:16Guest:The ones that were still alive.

01:05:17Guest:That's right.

01:05:18Guest:That's right.

01:05:19Marc:Those are San Francisco guys.

01:05:20Guest:Yeah.

01:05:21Marc:Does DePrima live up there?

01:05:22Guest:Yeah, she does.

01:05:23Marc:And she wrote the foreword of your book.

01:05:24Marc:She was also sort of like a biographer of the Beats, too, wasn't she?

01:05:29Marc:Kind of.

01:05:29Marc:Or was she always just?

01:05:30Guest:No, she was.

01:05:31Guest:She did write a book called Recollections.

01:05:33Guest:My life is a woman, which is an extraordinary.

01:05:36Guest:Yeah.

01:05:36Marc:Yeah.

01:05:37Marc:OK.

01:05:37Guest:She was the only she was the only woman in that group.

01:05:42Marc:What a nightmare that must have been.

01:05:43Guest:Well, she was, you know, like very, very tough Italian, you know, believed that men were a luxury.

01:05:52Guest:She did not feel like she needed anybody to help her raise her kids.

01:05:57Guest:She had kids from all different men.

01:05:58Guest:I mean, just like she was she's the original feminist gangster, in my opinion.

01:06:03Guest:So when she offered to write that forward, I almost fell off my chair.

01:06:07Marc:It's a sweet forward.

01:06:08Guest:Yeah.

01:06:09Marc:She grew up with Uncle Larry Ferlinghetti around.

01:06:13Marc:Is that what you're telling me?

01:06:14Guest:Larry Ferlinghetti?

01:06:15Guest:Lawrence Ferlinghetti?

01:06:17Guest:Yeah.

01:06:18Guest:I don't really know Lawrence that well.

01:06:20Marc:He's an odd bird.

01:06:21Marc:It's got to be 100 now.

01:06:22Guest:He is.

01:06:23Marc:Yeah.

01:06:23Guest:Yeah.

01:06:24Guest:He gave me a quote from my first book, and I remember when I...

01:06:28Guest:met up with him with Jack Hirschman at a coffee shop in San Francisco, and I said, thank you so much for doing this.

01:06:36Guest:It's really sweet.

01:06:37Guest:This quote is beautiful.

01:06:38Guest:I'm so honored, and he just looked at me and was like, you have really nice hair.

01:06:44Guest:Okay, well.

01:06:46Guest:All right, I don't know what a... I think that's a poem.

01:06:49Guest:I was like, I don't know how to move on from that.

01:06:52Marc:So much for feminism.

01:06:55Wow.

01:06:56Guest:Thank you?

01:06:57Guest:With a question mark?

01:06:59Marc:And Makora was like the younger of the beats, it seems.

01:07:01Marc:Like he was... He was, yeah.

01:07:04Guest:He is.

01:07:04Guest:He's, you know, they're all getting up there.

01:07:07Guest:And...

01:07:08Marc:Who's your favorite poet in general?

01:07:12Guest:Who's my favorite poet in general?

01:07:14Guest:That's such a big question.

01:07:15Guest:Modern or classic?

01:07:19Marc:I mean, who do you read?

01:07:20Marc:Who do you go back to?

01:07:21Guest:I go back to Louise Gluck.

01:07:26Guest:I love her.

01:07:27Guest:I go back to Bob Hickok.

01:07:30Guest:He's one of my favorite writers.

01:07:32Guest:There's a guy, Jeffrey McDaniel, that's really, really, really a fantastic writer, beautiful poet.

01:07:39Guest:But I love like Elizabeth Barrett Browning.

01:07:43Guest:I think Anne Sexton, she's to me probably one of the most important poets.

01:07:51Guest:I think you would really love a book called Alien vs. Predator by Michael Robbins.

01:07:56Marc:Oh, see, I don't know any of these people.

01:07:58Guest:Yeah, you of all people would dig that.

01:08:01Guest:Okay.

01:08:02Guest:For sure.

01:08:03Marc:So, I'm glad you wrote this.

01:08:06Marc:It seems to have saved your life.

01:08:08Guest:Yes.

01:08:09Marc:And these drawings, some of the paintings are by David Lynch?

01:08:12Marc:Mm-hmm.

01:08:13Marc:And some are by who?

01:08:14Guest:There's David Lynch, Marilyn Manson, Marcel Dezama, Adrian Tomain.

01:08:20Guest:He does a lot of the covers of The New Yorker.

01:08:23Guest:Kid Koala.

01:08:25Guest:My dad did one.

01:08:26Guest:The one with the woman falling down the Hollywood sign is my dad's collage.

01:08:30Marc:Oh, I like it.

01:08:30Guest:Yeah.

01:08:31Marc:Yeah.

01:08:31Marc:All right.

01:08:32Marc:You came through this.

01:08:34Marc:Dave Cross, your husband, an old friend of mine, supported you through.

01:08:38Guest:Please don't call him Dave.

01:08:40Marc:Why?

01:08:40Guest:Just call him David.

01:08:41Marc:Slappy.

01:08:42Marc:Slappy Cross.

01:08:45Marc:Do you ever call him that?

01:08:47Marc:Does anyone call him that around you?

01:08:48Guest:No, is that an old nickname?

01:08:50Marc:You don't know Slappy?

01:08:51Guest:I don't.

01:08:52Marc:Really?

01:08:53Guest:No.

01:08:53Guest:A slap?

01:08:54Marc:Come on.

01:08:55Guest:I don't.

01:08:55Marc:Well, now you do.

01:08:56Guest:Oh man, I can't wait.

01:08:59Guest:I like to call him Jennifer Aniston.

01:09:00Marc:that's i think that that's your nickname um no slap was something that a few there was a few guys yeah i think that's a mark rivers john yes oh yeah those are those would be slappies got it back that far but what do you so he's he supported you through all this like a good man yes see it's really difficult for me because like we have we haven't talked about cross at all and i got a long i know cross a long time yeah

01:09:25Marc:And I know you know him like no one else knows him.

01:09:30Marc:So you're going to see like even that poem, the wife poem he wrote in here is very sweet.

01:09:34Marc:And I know he's very sweet, but I'm not going to, you know, usually as sweet as Dave gets is a cranky concern.

01:09:41Marc:You know.

01:09:42Guest:Yeah.

01:09:43Guest:It's everybody, all of my friends, especially anytime a new friend meets him or, you know, when I was first introducing him to my friends when we were first dating, it never failed.

01:09:56Guest:Every single person would say afterwards, I don't think he likes me very much.

01:10:02Guest:It is the most.

01:10:02Marc:I've known him for like 30 years.

01:10:05Marc:I say that.

01:10:06Marc:I still say that.

01:10:07Guest:He's very private and he's,

01:10:11Guest:he doesn't like hugging.

01:10:14Marc:Yeah.

01:10:15Guest:Uh, and he just is, um, he's not a bullshitter in the sense that he's just gonna suddenly become your friend just because you know his wife.

01:10:25Guest:Uh, that's his, that's sort of his feeling.

01:10:27Guest:And he's that way about everybody.

01:10:28Guest:He just, uh, it takes a minute for him to warm up.

01:10:31Guest:But then when he does, I mean, he's the most loyal person I know.

01:10:34Guest:So.

01:10:34Marc:Yeah.

01:10:35Marc:How is he?

01:10:36Guest:He's good.

01:10:37Guest:He's good.

01:10:37Marc:And, and they're going, and they're going on tour with the Mr. Show thing.

01:10:41Yeah.

01:10:41Guest:They're not going on tour.

01:10:42Guest:They are shooting a show.

01:10:47Guest:They're shooting a new sketch show.

01:10:51Marc:Really?

01:10:51Guest:Yeah.

01:10:52Marc:With the same crew?

01:10:53Guest:Everybody.

01:10:54Guest:Yeah, the same crew.

01:10:55Marc:Is it called Mr. Show?

01:10:57Guest:I mean, I can imagine this is going to air by the time all that's known.

01:11:03Guest:But it's called With Bob and David.

01:11:04Guest:And it's, I can't say what, you know, thing it's on.

01:11:08Marc:Okay.

01:11:09Marc:Well, good.

01:11:10Marc:But let's talk about you.

01:11:11Marc:So enough about Dave.

01:11:12Marc:I've interviewed Dave enough.

01:11:14Guest:I actually had to, I wanted to hear his interview on here.

01:11:17Guest:And I had to buy your fucking premium package to do that shit.

01:11:21Marc:She just asked me for it.

01:11:23Guest:No, I wanted to give you the dollar.

01:11:25Marc:Thank you.

01:11:26Marc:I really appreciate it.

01:11:28Marc:I know it's a lot of money.

01:11:30Guest:But I was so irritated just having to fill out a fucking thing.

01:11:32Guest:I'm like, this is bullshit.

01:11:33Marc:How was that interview for you?

01:11:35Guest:I loved it.

01:11:36Guest:I called him afterwards and I said, you know...

01:11:39Guest:I'm so glad that you asked him about his dad, you know, and you guys talked about his dad.

01:11:43Guest:It's a thing he doesn't talk about.

01:11:45Guest:And again, very private person.

01:11:48Guest:And I think it's nice because I think that people assume that he's a dick.

01:11:52Guest:And he's not.

01:11:54Guest:He just can be cold and he just can not, like I said, not warm up to you just because that's what people do.

01:12:02Guest:He takes a minute.

01:12:04Guest:He takes a minute to... And he's serious.

01:12:06Guest:He is, yeah.

01:12:07Marc:And he's a little cranky sometimes.

01:12:12Marc:I don't think he's a dick.

01:12:13Marc:I think he's serious.

01:12:14Marc:He's a little cranky.

01:12:15Marc:He doesn't entertain fools gladly or at all.

01:12:20Guest:Yeah.

01:12:20Marc:And I think there's usually some sort of current of mild frustration going on.

01:12:26Guest:There definitely is.

01:12:28Guest:For sure.

01:12:29Guest:Especially when he has to hang out with my friends and listen to Drake.

01:12:33Guest:Then he gets really irritated.

01:12:34Marc:Now there's, where's that movie?

01:12:39Marc:Where's that documentary?

01:12:41Guest:Yeah.

01:12:41Marc:You got a documentary living in your house with you.

01:12:43Guest:Yeah.

01:12:44Guest:He's like, can't we just put on some Nashville pussy?

01:12:46Marc:What is this shit?

01:12:48Marc:Oh, Dave and his music.

01:12:49Guest:I know.

01:12:50Marc:Fire hose.

01:12:51Guest:Oh, God.

01:12:52Guest:Put on some fire hose.

01:12:52Guest:I cannot keep track.

01:12:53Guest:He'll put something on in the car.

01:12:56Guest:What?

01:12:56Marc:From the old days?

01:12:57Guest:Yeah.

01:12:57Marc:From the old punk rock days?

01:13:00Guest:Yeah.

01:13:00Guest:I don't get it.

01:13:01Marc:Yeah.

01:13:02Marc:He's a character.

01:13:03Marc:He is.

01:13:04Marc:So now, do you look back at your acting career with any sort of love?

01:13:08Guest:Oh, 100%.

01:13:08Guest:Yeah.

01:13:10Marc:What were the high points for you?

01:13:12Guest:I think I appreciated even more.

01:13:14Guest:I would say the sisterhood movies because I got real friendships out of that.

01:13:20Guest:Those girls were and are very, very good friends.

01:13:26Guest:That's a freak accident that it happened that way because normally you don't

01:13:32Guest:There's always an undercurrent of, not jealousy, but competition.

01:13:42Guest:And that never happened with Blake and American Alexis.

01:13:44Guest:So I would say that those movies were highlights for me, for sure.

01:13:48Marc:And do you, with this new project, because you did a lot of TV work, do you love the TV work?

01:13:55Guest:I do, yeah, I love it.

01:13:56Marc:Yeah?

01:13:57Marc:Yeah, it's fun.

01:13:59Marc:But you're like a working actress person.

01:14:01Guest:Yes.

01:14:03Guest:Yeah.

01:14:04Guest:And I hope to and have been doing in the last couple of years, especially since selling this book and, you know, getting my film made of producing more and writing more, which is and directing, which is I have now seen what I'm capable of in a really great way.

01:14:21Guest:And I believe in myself.

01:14:23Guest:So I can't return ever back to the world of just auditioning.

01:14:27Marc:And depending on other people.

01:14:28Guest:And depending on other people, yeah.

01:14:30Guest:And I don't think that would have been possible.

01:14:31Marc:Can you talk about the movie?

01:14:33Marc:Where did it come from?

01:14:34Marc:What's it about?

01:14:35Marc:When did you write it?

01:14:36Guest:It is an adaptation of a Janet Fitch novel.

01:14:41Guest:She wrote White Oleander.

01:14:42Guest:So it was the novel she wrote after that, Paint It Black.

01:14:45Guest:which is about a young man who kills himself and the two women he leaves behind.

01:14:50Guest:His girlfriend, who's a sort of punk rock L.A.

01:14:54Guest:artist, nude model, does all that type of stuff for money, and his mother, who's a very wealthy, world-famous concert pianist.

01:15:04Guest:And these two women blame each other for his death, and they are constantly attempting to kill the other person.

01:15:12Guest:It's good.

01:15:12Guest:It's like if Quentin Tarantino directed Grey Gardens.

01:15:16Marc:Is it funny?

01:15:17Guest:Parts of it, yeah.

01:15:19Marc:But it's heavy.

01:15:19Guest:It's heavy, but it's... There are parts of it that are funny.

01:15:24Guest:It's a melodrama.

01:15:25Marc:What was it like directing Molina?

01:15:27Marc:I mean, he's a monster.

01:15:28Marc:Yeah, he's... I mean, an actor.

01:15:29Guest:He's a good... He's incredible.

01:15:30Marc:He's just... I meant monster in the, like... Yes.

01:15:34Marc:Yeah.

01:15:34Guest:Yeah, I mean, you know, it was... Of course, it's nerve-wracking, but...

01:15:39Guest:But at the same time, he's just such a generous person.

01:15:42Guest:And, you know, those type of professionals as well.

01:15:47Guest:They come in.

01:15:47Guest:Janet McTeer was like that as well.

01:15:49Guest:Just they come in.

01:15:50Guest:They know, which is how I was always raised and raised.

01:15:56Guest:That's hilarious.

01:15:57Guest:How I always went into work was knowing all my lines, like, you know, all those things.

01:16:01Guest:That's how Fred came in.

01:16:02Guest:He came in fully prepared.

01:16:04Guest:And he's just he's just wonderful.

01:16:07Guest:Really beautiful in the movie.

01:16:09Marc:How were you raised around that?

01:16:10Marc:Did your father used to tell you how to behave within your profession?

01:16:17Guest:Well, he would take me to the set for seven years when I was on General Hospital.

01:16:22Guest:And he would give me acting notes, sort of.

01:16:28Guest:I mean, he thought I could do better.

01:16:29Marc:Where did he learn how to act?

01:16:31Guest:I don't know if you learn anything if you start when you're nine.

01:16:36Marc:But I mean, I would have thought that during the 60s there would have been some, you know, meeting with co-chairs or doing the thing.

01:16:44Guest:Well, he was born in 1934, like back when, you know, tumbleweeds were all the rage.

01:16:50Guest:And so he was like a kid actor in the 40s, which is crazy to me.

01:16:55Marc:And what were his parents that they would let him do that?

01:17:00Guest:Well, my grandfather was in vaudeville.

01:17:03Guest:He was a big vaudeville star, Eddie Tamblyn.

01:17:05Guest:And he died of a brain tumor, so I put him in my search engine in the book, which is actually very close to how I would search things.

01:17:15Marc:What was his shtick?

01:17:18Guest:I actually don't know.

01:17:20Guest:My dad has given me this chapter of his book that I haven't had a chance to read yet called Eddie and Sally, my grandparents.

01:17:28Guest:And it's all about them doing... They used to tour the Orpheum Circuit.

01:17:32Guest:And so, you know, my grandfather did maybe one or two movies.

01:17:36Guest:And then that was it.

01:17:38Marc:And they came out here?

01:17:39Guest:Yeah, they came out here.

01:17:41Marc:From the East Coast?

01:17:43Guest:No, they were...

01:17:45Guest:They were born here.

01:17:46Guest:Huh.

01:17:47Guest:Yeah, so I'm third generation from here.

01:17:49Marc:Third generation showbiz.

01:17:50Guest:Yeah.

01:17:51Marc:Now, what's your mom do?

01:17:53Guest:My mom is a musician.

01:17:57Guest:She plays a 12-string.

01:18:00Guest:She's- Guitar?

01:18:01Guest:Yeah, she's pretty awesome.

01:18:02Marc:Uh-huh.

01:18:03Guest:Musician, songwriter.

01:18:04Marc:Sibs?

01:18:05Marc:Got any?

01:18:06Guest:Just my sister, my half-sister.

01:18:07Marc:The half-sister that you learned of later.

01:18:09Guest:Yeah.

01:18:10Marc:And you're close?

01:18:10Yeah.

01:18:11Guest:Yeah, she's fucking awesome.

01:18:12Guest:She's a welder.

01:18:13Guest:She welds heavy metals.

01:18:14Guest:She lives in San Francisco.

01:18:16Guest:I cannot express to you how exciting it was for me as a kid.

01:18:18Guest:As terrified as my dad must have been to have a young 17-year-old with green hair literally knock on the door and go, Hi, I'm your daughter.

01:18:28Guest:For me, I had...

01:18:32Guest:It was like poof, like magic.

01:18:34Guest:I had spent my whole life playing with Barbie dolls and all my friends had siblings.

01:18:37Guest:And I suddenly had this cool teenage sister who played an electric guitar like PJ Harvey, who was in an all-girl punk band called the Kirby Grips.

01:18:47Guest:It was like the coolest thing that could have ever happened.

01:18:49Guest:I suddenly had this awesome older sister.

01:18:51Marc:Rebel angel delivered.

01:18:53Guest:Yes.

01:18:54Marc:To save you.

01:18:55Guest:Yeah.

01:18:55Guest:It's really, really true.

01:18:56Marc:From old hippie stuff.

01:18:57Guest:Yes.

01:18:59Yes.

01:19:00Marc:We're here to take you out of hippie land.

01:19:03Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:19:04Marc:Oh.

01:19:05Marc:And what's your relationship with David Lynch?

01:19:08Guest:David I know through my dad because my dad was in Twin Peaks.

01:19:12Guest:Yeah, right.

01:19:13Guest:But I don't really know him.

01:19:16Guest:I don't know if anybody can really know him.

01:19:17Guest:But I just had written him.

01:19:20Guest:And actually, it's interesting because the poem for Sharon Tate in this book...

01:19:26Guest:uh i originally sent him that poem because i thought that that would be the one that he would want to do the artwork for and uh he didn't he he was disturbed by it and actually i think had written that's no small task to disturb david lynch yeah well put that as a bloke

01:19:45Guest:Well, the poem is from the perspective of her unborn child during the murder, which was the only way in which I could approach that subject, I thought, without it being taboo, was to try to show... If I'm writing about the interior lives, the metaphorical interior lives of these women, why not do a poem that's about the literal interior life?

01:20:09Guest:As it's happening, this would be the only...

01:20:11Guest:And honestly, the only way to do it in which it wasn't brutal, that you wouldn't have to talk about the terror that was going on outside of her body.

01:20:18Guest:It was sort of like this weird reverse situation.

01:20:20Guest:So it's from the perspective of the child on the inside as it's happening and what they're hearing and seeing these holes of light like stars coming through.

01:20:31Guest:But David, I think he had said to me, I don't remember, but something about he didn't know why such a painful thing needed to be revisited like that.

01:20:39Guest:which I was very surprised and sort of taken aback.

01:20:42Guest:I thought for sure that was going to be his, he'd be into it, but he wasn't.

01:20:47Guest:And of course, Marilyn Manson was like, yes, that's the poem for me.

01:20:52Guest:But David, I knew briefly through, just because of dad and doing Twin Peaks,

01:21:00Guest:You know, when for a moment I thought he wasn't going to do it, I shared this story with him.

01:21:04Guest:I emailed and said that, which is true, I wasn't allowed to watch Twin Peaks.

01:21:09Guest:I was too young.

01:21:10Guest:But what I would do is the way my parents' apartment is set up is where their TV was.

01:21:16Guest:I used to watch, I think it was on Thursdays or something.

01:21:20Guest:I used to watch every single week.

01:21:22Guest:I, you know, quote unquote, go to bed.

01:21:24Guest:But then I had a Hello Kitty mirror and I would stick it around the side of the door and I'd watch the whole show on a Hello Kitty mirror.

01:21:30Marc:Oh, that's commitment.

01:21:31Guest:Yeah.

01:21:32Guest:So I told him that and he was like, God, fine.

01:21:38Marc:So they're both OK, your folks?

01:21:39Guest:Yeah.

01:21:40Marc:And you get along with them?

01:21:41Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:21:41Guest:Very, very, very close with both of them.

01:21:43Marc:And now you're going to go back home upstate?

01:21:46Yeah.

01:21:46Guest:No, go back to Brooklyn.

01:21:48Guest:Yeah.

01:21:49Marc:You guys still have the house upstate?

01:21:50Guest:Yes.

01:21:51Marc:And you got an apartment in Brooklyn?

01:21:53Guest:Yeah.

01:21:53Marc:That's nice.

01:21:54Guest:Yeah.

01:21:54Guest:So how much time do you spend upstate?

01:21:56Guest:None.

01:21:57Guest:Oh, really?

01:21:58Guest:I mean, I think I've been there once, but I had to direct a movie and I did a play here.

01:22:03Marc:What about him?

01:22:03Marc:Is he up there?

01:22:04Guest:No, he's here in L.A.

01:22:05Marc:He's here now?

01:22:06Marc:Yeah.

01:22:07Marc:Working on the thing?

01:22:07Guest:Yeah.

01:22:08Guest:And then he goes straight to London to do another season of Todd Margaret.

01:22:13Marc:Really?

01:22:13Guest:Yeah.

01:22:13Guest:They're doing a third season.

01:22:15Marc:It's like years later.

01:22:16Guest:I know.

01:22:17Guest:They've had a really good idea for how to make that happen.

01:22:21Guest:And it works.

01:22:23Marc:For IFC?

01:22:24Guest:Yeah.

01:22:24Marc:Oh, that's exciting.

01:22:25Guest:Yeah.

01:22:27Marc:Okay.

01:22:27Marc:Well, it was great talking to you.

01:22:28Marc:Do you feel satisfied?

01:22:29Guest:I do.

01:22:30Guest:I feel very good.

01:22:30Marc:Do you want to read a poem?

01:22:32Guest:Are all your listeners going to be turning this off right now?

01:22:35Marc:Hell no.

01:22:36Marc:What one would you read?

01:22:37Guest:Maybe you'll read the Brittany Murphy one.

01:22:41Guest:It's short enough, I think.

01:22:45Guest:As he slowly hands over the book.

01:22:48Marc:I like them being read.

01:22:50Guest:I shall read.

01:22:50Marc:It's a nice thing.

01:22:52Guest:Brittany Murphy.

01:22:55Guest:Her body dies like a spider's.

01:22:57Guest:In the shower, the blooming flower seeds a cemetery.

01:23:01Guest:A pill lodges in the inner pocket of her flesh coat.

01:23:05Guest:Her breasts were the gifts of ghosts, dark tarps of success.

01:23:10Guest:Her mouth dribbles over onto the bathroom floor, Pollock blood.

01:23:16Guest:The body is lifted from the red carpet, put in a black bag, taken to the mother's screams for identification.

01:23:23Guest:The country says good things about the body.

01:23:27Guest:They print the best photos, the least bones, the most peach.

01:23:33Guest:Ah.

01:24:02Marc:You're doing good, though.

01:24:04Guest:Doing good.

01:24:05Marc:It's a great book.

01:24:08Marc:Thanks, Mark.

01:24:08Marc:And I'm glad you got through whatever it took.

01:24:12Marc:Nice to see you.

01:24:13Guest:Me too.

01:24:13Guest:Thanks.

01:24:17Marc:That's it.

01:24:20Marc:That's the poetry discussion.

01:24:22Marc:There we go.

01:24:23Marc:It's a beautiful book.

01:24:25Marc:It's a hell of a meditation.

01:24:27Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:24:33Marc:I pulled out the Telecaster.

01:24:35Marc:Anyone interested?

01:24:48Guest:Thank you.

01:24:58Marc:Boomer Lives!