Episode 581 - Mick Foley
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what the fuck'll bury fins what the fuck nicks i am mark maron this is wtf this is my show welcome to my show today on the show the amazing mick foley
Marc:You might know him as Mankind.
Marc:You might know him as Cactus Jack.
Marc:You might know him as Dude Love.
Marc:You might know him as the hardcore legend, Mrs. Foley's baby boy, Mick Foley.
Marc:Professional wrestler, Mick Foley.
Marc:But now you might know him as Santa.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Mick Foley is now known as Santa.
Marc:We'll talk about that and other things.
Marc:The amazing Mick Foley, good-hearted dude.
Marc:A lot of life.
Marc:Written books, been places, done things.
Marc:Got a big heart and a busted up body from that pro wrestling business.
Marc:And as many of you know, I'm not a wrestling fan per se.
Marc:I did not grow up enjoying the wrestling.
Marc:I remember seeing the magazines.
Marc:I've mentioned those magazines before.
Marc:The pro wrestling magazines.
Marc:Just blood spattered chubby dudes with bleach blonde hair and unitards.
Marc:Different positions of pain.
Marc:I remember those magazines.
Marc:But I did not watch the wrestling very much.
Marc:I did not lock in.
Marc:Though I do have a relationship with some wrestlers who I enjoy as people.
Marc:Mick Foley being one of them.
Marc:Colt Cabana.
Marc:who does a wonderful podcast with wrestlers, and CM Punk.
Marc:who recently left WWE, the Worldwide Wrestling Foundation, Federation, whatever it is, to much fanfare and aggravation.
Marc:CM Punk left and is now heading towards the UFC.
Marc:CM Punk just was acting in an episode of Marin last week.
Marc:We did some work in the ring.
Marc:So even though I may not be a fan of professional wrestling, I have been in the ring with a wrestler.
Marc:And I have amplified my personality to the role of Marc Maron.
Marc:Is that a wrestling role?
Marc:Is it?
Marc:Couldn't any of our roles in life be wrestling roles?
Marc:Who's the face?
Marc:Who's the heel in your life?
Marc:Look around.
Marc:What game?
Marc:What script are you running?
Marc:pow look out just shit my pants just coffee.coop available at uh wtfpod.com so i've been doing some comedy get my brain you know like i'm working out like working out the comedy store keeping in shape keeping that connection open because i am going to have to tour fairly quickly
Marc:after i end shooting might be a surprise for those first few dates look i i think everything's pretty good uh the shooting is going well um i went running yesterday uh i think the world is not great but it's holding up it's raining a bit here in la which is always nice maybe that drought will go away i've decided that a lot of what contributes to the drought outside of fracking and and commercial farming and beverly hills mansions with
Marc:large yards that they overwater.
Marc:I think one of the primary causes that we don't talk about much in public for the Southern California drought is people masturbating in the shower.
Marc:I mean, that can add anywhere from an extra, you know, three to 19 minutes, depending on your commitment.
Marc:And that goes either way.
Marc:You know, this is not just a dude thing.
Marc:You know, believe me, ladies, I know about the glory of the shower massager.
Marc:I'm no stranger to what you gals can do with a shower massager or perhaps the spigot itself.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:I'm talking to you, ma'am.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You spigot fuckers.
Marc:I've known a couple of you.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:I'm not judging.
Marc:I'm not judging.
Marc:But listen, I feel like I'm being a little callous.
Marc:Let's open up the heart.
Marc:Let's open up the heart.
Marc:The dating, the girlfriend painter thing is going well.
Marc:Whatever shortcomings are in my emotional capacity, given that I'm a cynical, angry fuck who's been through some things, I am not engaging in it.
Marc:I've chosen detachment over rage because the rage is garbage.
Marc:It has nothing, there's no place being dumped on other people.
Marc:I was even on stage the other night and a group of 12 walked in.
Marc:This was Saturday night at the Comedy Store and I was sitting there with Sarah watching 12 people walk into a pack house and said, they're their own audience and they're going to be trouble.
Marc:You get that many people together, you get them having a good time, that's how people die sometimes.
Marc:And it's at least how comics have a bad night.
Marc:And I got on stage, third up, person before me, Steve Trevino, addressed the fact that they were yammering, gabbing away,
Marc:And I got up there and I felt it.
Marc:I felt the tug of their rudeness.
Marc:And a lot of times that's just like bait for my angry heart to just dump a lifetime's worth of infantile garbage onto an unsuspecting stranger who is asking for it in my demented brain in that moment because they are interrupting my dumb jokes.
Marc:And I'd much rather try to annihilate a stranger than
Marc:mentally and in public in front of people they don't know than do my jokes my heart would rather do that i personally would rather do the jokes and have a nice experience so in that moment i said to that person i said there's nothing more i'd rather do than to humiliate you and to start a lot of shit probably use words that would make people uncomfortable and maybe even turn the audience against me there was a time i said to this woman
Marc:And this gentleman and whoever the fuck was talking, there was a time where I would do that.
Marc:I would take up my entire set to do that.
Marc:I would ruin the next two comics acts to do that.
Marc:But not tonight.
Marc:Not tonight.
Marc:I'm just going to tell you that it's rude what you're doing.
Marc:I don't like you as people because you don't know how to behave in an audience situation.
Marc:You're being selfish.
Marc:And I'd like you to be quiet so I can get through my set.
Marc:And I'd like you to be quiet for the rest of the show because it's just horrible behavior and you're bad people.
Marc:Calmly said that and felt good about it.
Marc:I felt that that was a diplomatic way to handle it as opposed to like, what the fuck is your problem?
Marc:Were you not parented properly?
Marc:You dumb fucks.
Marc:As opposed to that, I just told them I didn't like them and they were rude adults and did not behave themselves.
Marc:Was not satisfying.
Marc:as the other way, but that's what I did.
Marc:Proud of myself.
Marc:So the anger is being stifled, but I don't know.
Marc:It's got to be coming out somewhere.
Marc:I think it's manifesting itself in man boobs from the amount of food I'm eating, but maybe I'm the only one seeing those.
Marc:I can't even believe I just said man boobs.
Marc:I don't have man boobs.
Marc:Oh God.
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:And yeah, but, you know, dating somebody who has their own art.
Marc:I mean, this this woman has a painting hanging in LACMA.
Marc:Her name is Sarah Kane.
Marc:I will give you her name now.
Marc:I will try to do that because I feel like I've been like hiding parts of my life and I've been running low on things that I could talk about.
Marc:She's she's a lovely woman.
Marc:She she manages a small cat farm at her house.
Marc:She enjoys tea.
Marc:She doesn't eat the meat.
Marc:And she's a brilliant abstract painter, and I am intimidated by her grand paintings.
Marc:I look at the work she does, and I was brought up to respect artists, especially painters, man.
Marc:Painters.
Marc:That is some fuck.
Marc:This chick has balls, man.
Marc:She's got an axe, you know, an axe in that brush.
Marc:And it's all very, it's intimidating.
Marc:Like her paintings make me feel small.
Marc:It's like, well, I said this thing last night.
Marc:Really, I spent four hours a day on this line.
Marc:I made two moves, I added that black, and I put that gold in, and I'm standing there going like, holy fuck, that's amazing, and that's gonna last forever.
Marc:I diplomatically,
Marc:diminished some hecklers last night I was very proud of myself in that moment yeah I'm starting a new canvas tomorrow oh okay yeah I'm probably gonna talk I'm gonna creatively complain for laughs a little bit tomorrow not complaining everything's copacetic doing good doing good can you hear the edge you can hear it right so listen listen up
Marc:Marination tours.
Marc:Shows have been added in Seattle.
Marc:Show will be added by Wednesday this week in Toronto.
Marc:Show has been added in Boston, Massachusetts.
Marc:Vancouver.
Marc:Spread the word, would you?
Marc:Need to push that baby up there.
Marc:I know it's months away, but let's try to sell these tickets.
Marc:San Francisco, Rochester, New York at the Comedy Club.
Marc:Friday, March 20th and Saturday, March 21st.
Marc:The Warner Theater.
Marc:The Warner Theater in D.C.
Marc:April 9th.
Marc:April 10th, the Truckadero.
Marc:Two shows in Philly.
Marc:April 11th, the Wilbur Theater in Boston.
Marc:Two shows.
Marc:April 16th, the Barrymore Theater.
Marc:Madison, Wisconsin.
Marc:Get your tickets.
Marc:They're running.
Marc:It's happening.
Marc:April 17th, Carnegie of Homestead Music Hall in Pittsburgh.
Marc:beautiful posters for these april 18th royal oak music theater in royal oak michigan get the tickets april 19th bluma appell in toronto uh adding a second show april 23rd the paramount theater in austin texas uh let's do that that's at the moon tower festival i'd love to see you april 25th fitzgerald in houston few tickets left fitzgerald's april 26th south side music column dallas uh get some tickets for that dallas you know i don't know how i want to do in texas in the outside of austin
Marc:May 8th, the Neptune, Seattle, Washington.
Marc:And May 8th, the Neptune Late Show.
Marc:Two shows.
Marc:May 9th, the Vogue in Vancouver.
Marc:Do you not get my podcast in Vancouver?
Marc:Let's go, Vancouver.
Marc:What are you waiting until the last week?
Marc:It's looking good.
Marc:I've sold a few hundred, but that's a big place, man.
Marc:May 10th, Davis Symphony Hall in San Francisco.
Marc:Again, I've sold like a thousand, but I need a thousand more.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:May 14th, the Orange Peel in Asheville, North Carolina.
Marc:And May 15th at the Charleston Music Hall in Charleston, Charleston, South Carolina.
Marc:May 16th, Variety Playhouse, Atlanta.
Marc:Come on, Atlanta.
Marc:Enjoy theater on May 17th in New Orleans.
Marc:Do you not get my show in New Orleans?
Marc:A few hundred sold.
Marc:Let's keep it going.
Marc:You can wait if you want.
Marc:Oh, here's what I want to tell you.
Marc:So I'm probably going to be shaving my face entirely for the last show.
Marc:I got to shoot some stuff that requires that.
Marc:So it might be a little jarring in Rochester to see a shaven face.
Marc:You're going to see my face.
Marc:Some of you will see my face.
Marc:I will see my face.
Marc:Let's see how it's doing under there.
Marc:No affectation.
Marc:No caffeine, no nicotine, no alcohol, no drugs.
Marc:Cut down the sugar and I'm going to remove my facial hair.
Marc:I will be naked.
Marc:Naked!
Marc:Man boobs.
Marc:Don't want them.
Marc:So, look, folks, I'm going to bring to you now the Mick Foley conversation.
Marc:The lovely Mick Foley mankind.
Marc:And we aired part of this conversation back in November on episode 552 when Mick's documentary I Am Santa Claus came out.
Marc:You can watch that on Netflix.
Marc:Right now, Mick is on tour with the one-man show that you'll hear us talk about.
Marc:Go to realmickfoley.com to check out his tour schedule and get tickets.
Marc:Mick Foley, hero.
Marc:Let's talk to him.
Marc:Do you remember your childhood not fondly otherwise?
Marc:There were some rough batches.
Guest:Life was not always easy on a heavyset kid who was shy.
Guest:Where'd you grow up?
Guest:Long Island.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:I remember.
Marc:It's all coming back to me because we had done some stuff on Air America.
Marc:You came down when you were working for that foundation, right?
Marc:And we were talking about books and there was the abused women...
Marc:Yeah, RAINN.
Guest:I was doing a lot of work for RAINN at the time.
Guest:I mean, I was an active volunteer for two years for RAINN.
Guest:Nice acronym, tough words, Rape, Abuse, Incest, National Network.
Guest:So I was like an advocate and I was a donor.
Guest:And then I took the 40-hour online course.
Guest:And then I did like the 20-hour in-person course.
Guest:For what exactly?
Guest:To be a spokesperson?
Marc:No, no.
Guest:I would be when people needed help.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:I would reach out.
Guest:I mean, if someone is listening and they need help or know someone needs help, I mean, the website is really simple.
Guest:It's RAINN, R-A-I.
Guest:nn.org and you still do that no i did it for two years and uh it was it was tough but if someone called you with those kind of issues you could well they would do it online and then i would be an anonymous you know i had a different name they wouldn't say hey mick foley yeah i would have a different name and uh
Guest:I was, you know, I was good at it.
Marc:What compelled you to do something like that being like, you know, it's obviously you've got a big heart, but I mean, you know, the characters you've played, you know, in the ring and sort of what wrestling represents, which is it doesn't represent anything but wrestling.
Marc:But, you know, it's sort of like you wouldn't think that you would end up, you know, as an online helper for rape and incest and abusive relationships.
Guest:The key was I met Tori Amos at Comic-Con 2008.
Marc:And she did it?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I was a huge fan, and I don't know.
Guest:Listen, I described it in my book.
Guest:I said, when I finally met her, and she stood up from her table, and my first words were not... They were in a question.
Guest:They were, I can hug you?
Guest:And then she gave me...
Guest:The biggest hug.
Guest:I don't know if she transferred some energy like John Coffey did in the Green Mile, but I felt like a changed man.
Guest:And I'd never been on the internet in my life.
Guest:The man who was mankind hugs Tori Amos and everything changes.
Guest:Everything changed.
Guest:Everything changed.
Guest:With one Tori Amos hug.
Guest:Oh, the power of the Tori Amos hug.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It just placated.
Guest:It rested the beast.
Guest:It seemed to do something.
Guest:And when I wandered over, I'd had my kids put me on a website.
Guest:I could say, I want to see something.
Guest:Can you get me on there?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'd never actually ventured on there myself.
Guest:And then I found a way to go on ToriAmos.com.
Guest:Honestly, I wanted to see if she had put a photo of the two of us.
Guest:Hugging?
Guest:No, or otherwise.
Guest:You know, we did the posed photos too.
Guest:And it turned out somebody actually did snap a photo.
Guest:I mean, I remember, if you don't mind me going off on this Tori Amos tangent.
Guest:I think it's a wonderful thing to know about you, Mick.
Guest:I looked at her after the hug and I said, you know who I am?
Guest:I'll never forget it as long as I live.
Guest:Like, she moved her hands like in majestic arcs, almost like she was Mr. Miyagi saying wax on, wax off, except with far more pageantry and elegance.
Guest:And she said...
Guest:I know exactly who you are.
Guest:And it turned out that her nephew is like a big fan.
Guest:And he had told her about this wrestler who would mention her in my, and you know, I'd written a few books and, uh, and Tori would make occasional, um, you know, I'd make occasional Tori Amos references.
So,
Guest:It was cool.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Did you feel it was deeper than that, though, when she said, I know exactly who you are?
Guest:Did you feel like, oh, my God, my soul is exposed?
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She could read me.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I'm going to be breaking news for you here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know if she wants me to tell this story.
Guest:I got news from a third person.
Guest:Mentioned my name, and this was somebody who was close to Tori and was a mutual friend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And after she met with her, she said, Tori called her back in the room and said, tell Mick he's done enough.
Guest:She wanted me to stop giving.
Guest:She thought I was giving too much money.
Guest:She knew I was doing benefits.
Guest:Oh, for rain?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She's like, he's done enough.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:He needs to take care of himself and his family.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:And it was like, okay.
Guest:It's almost like a fighter or someone throwing the towel for them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I didn't quit.
Guest:Somebody let me out.
Guest:The ref called it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:She called it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:Did you stop?
Yeah.
Guest:For a while.
Guest:Right now, I'm raising money for a Santa whose house burned down.
Guest:Save the Santa campaign?
Guest:I'm calling it Sockos for Santa.
Guest:I'm selling autographed socks because that was one of those.
Marc:Yeah, there you go.
Guest:Yeah, you know your stuff, Mark.
Guest:sock puppet i don't know much but i knew you know that that was like part of the uh i knew that was part of the gift the the mankind uh get up it was and so when i go out there before a show and i say hey uh you know i've got these things for sale and there's a you know one of santa's ambassadors you know he's on tough times house burned down lost everything every photo everything we're gonna try to make a little difference so every night i'll like i'll do go to the go fund me
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm not tempted to keep it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I make the donation.
Guest:But I think that's I think she'll understand.
Guest:I got to I got to do something.
Marc:Well, it's well.
Marc:So you've got this part of you that feels compelled to help out Santa's and to help out women in trouble.
Marc:And I mean, so what you grew up in Long Island with town?
Marc:This was like Stony Brook by the university.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Guest:So how many kids in the family?
Guest:Just me and my brother.
Guest:And where'd he end up?
Guest:He works for UPS.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Not on the driving side.
Guest:He doesn't wear the shorts.
Guest:No.
Guest:He's one of the guys.
Marc:Was he ever a shorts guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To be in UPS, you have to be a shorts guy for a while.
Guest:That's your initiation?
Guest:You have to know how to walk the walk, yeah.
Marc:In the shorts.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yes, in the long shorts.
Marc:And now he's on the other side?
Marc:He's on the other side.
Marc:He's behind the desk.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You don't need to wear shorts behind the desk.
Marc:Barking out orders.
Marc:Yeah, you don't have to wear any pants behind the desk.
Marc:And your folks, what's your old man do?
Guest:My dad passed away a few years ago, but he was really highly thought of.
Guest:He was the athletic director at our high school.
Guest:And from five elementary schools to junior high and 2,500 schools.
Guest:So my dad was so highly thought of that when he passed away, they lowered the flags at every one of the district schools, all eight schools.
Guest:And when we drove by out of the funeral home, I mean, I swear, it was very touching.
Guest:It was right across the street from the high school.
Guest:They had the flag at half-mast.
Guest:And they had a member of every one of the fall teams, like, outside.
Guest:I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it now.
Guest:So, you know, my dad, I said in my first book, like, you know, I was known as a guy who worked really, really, you know, really hard, gave people his money's worth.
Guest:And especially, you know, when that camera light was on, you know, I was going to dig down a little deeper.
Guest:And I said, my dad, he worked every day like the camera light was on.
Guest:So, yeah, he touched a lot of lives.
Guest:And I think that's...
Guest:You know, something he passed on to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It seems like it.
Marc:So he seemed like a great guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did he push you athletically?
Guest:He did, yeah.
Guest:And we had a tough patch there.
Guest:I mean, it seems crazy now, and especially as I've had long hair, give or take a couple of shaved heads since 1985.
Guest:You guys shave your head occasionally, you mix it up.
Guest:Well, when I got out of wrestling in 2000, I celebrated my birthday at Hershey Park.
Guest:I did a Q&A and they traded it out for like three days at the park.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They lost out free food and lodging.
Guest:And then I went back after the Q&A, shaved off all my hair, been long for 15 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the next day, I went down.
Guest:First of all, I went down to the hotel.
Guest:And they said, how are you doing, Mr. Foley?
Guest:I was like, how do you know I am?
Guest:And it turns out I've got a prominent injury.
Guest:I lost one of my ears along the way.
Guest:And without the hair, it made me very detectable.
Guest:very easily you're missing a year i am yeah so so you know the young lady lost her uh um uh young lady luster lost her year a part of it at a ufc fight uh did you know did you know that no it was hideous and i started getting these messages uh so i just reached reach out to her and said welcome to the club it gets better
Guest:It gets better.
Guest:And the next day, she reached out to me and thanked me for being there.
Guest:And it was like one of these feel-good worlds collide.
Guest:Did you email Tori Amos and tell her about that?
Guest:I didn't include Tori.
Guest:I didn't know if Tori needed to be part of this.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm helping the ear list now.
Guest:Anybody with one ear, I'm raising some money.
Guest:We're going to get together for a support group.
Guest:It's me and Holly Field.
Guest:We're going to try and get some new ears for some people.
Yeah.
Marc:So you got the shaving the head didn't hide you, man.
Guest:Didn't hide me.
Guest:And then like two days later, Mr. McMahon, the owner of WWE, called me up and he was like.
Guest:Is that what you call him?
Guest:I called him Vince until about three years ago when I kind of lost my touch.
Guest:I left and I worked for the, not that there is any competition at WWE, but I definitely worked for someone else other than them.
Guest:And then I never quite found my mojo around him when I got back.
Guest:And no more Vince.
Guest:And now he's Mr. McMahon.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Weird.
Guest:Yeah, very strange.
Guest:Did that just happen organically?
Guest:Yeah, it seemed to.
Guest:I felt like I was kind of like the boy who cried wolf and betrayed him simultaneously.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Do you feel guilty about that?
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah, a little bit, yeah.
Guest:But I told his daughter Stephanie, who I've known, she was 19, 20 years old, I said, I think I had to leave in order to better appreciate just how well everything is done here.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, it's...
Marc:Well, you were like part of the family, I imagine.
Guest:I was like part of the family, yeah.
Guest:How long were you with them?
Guest:I was with them off and on for, you know, I started there in 96.
Guest:And, you know, off and on, I felt like I was Dorothy who had given the ability, even after I retired from full-time wrestling in 2000, like I had the ability to like...
Guest:tiptoe back and forth from Kansas to Oz you know yeah I could lead this normal life and then anytime I literally anytime I wanted I could call up the company and say hey can I appear I did that when I do the one-man show you know and so I was traveling around the
Guest:the uk and ireland because you have to make that distinction don't ever oh do i know yeah don't ever include ireland on your uk tour did that once oh yeah it's the last time you ever make that mistake right yeah so you got to say uk and ireland right um and i was in dublin i got there a day early and wwe happened to be there so i called up i was like hey i hadn't been on a show in three years i was like can i can i show up and they're like sure so i was like hey gentlemen it's
Guest:And as much as I love, and I really do, I really do get almost everything I used to get from doing the shows in front of a couple hundred people as opposed to 10,000 or 15,000 people.
Guest:But it's kind of cool to know that if you want that 15,000 reaction without having any pressure to perform, any pressure to bring the crowd in, it's almost like the difference between...
Guest:you know, cooking a dinner and cleaning it up when you're done and just walking out and enjoying the meal.
Guest:Well, I mean, it's a little bigger than that because, like, you know, if you're in a pinch, if you're feeling a little low and there's a WWE fight around, you can be like, I'm just going to go wave, get some juice.
Guest:That was how simple it was.
Guest:And Vince even said, he goes...
Guest:you know mick after all you've done i want you to consider wwe to be your playground and you can come back and play anytime you want i did that for for many years in and out in and out you get a few bucks uh yeah they would they would take that was not the you know i didn't yeah i mean they they would yeah they always they always took care of me but you're physically incapable of wrestling i cannot wrestle anymore yeah that was uh that was a decision a wife no a neurologist
Guest:Arrived at that conclusion.
Guest:What did he say?
Guest:Basically, he said, you're done.
Guest:What was the tipper?
Guest:What it was, honestly, WWE, this credit to them, is they started giving these impact tests to measure the repercussions of brain injuries.
Guest:And even as I was doing the test, I realized it wasn't going well, especially as far as the short-term memory went.
Guest:And so independent of WWE, I called a top neurologist I knew at the Boston Center for Traumatic Encephalopathy.
Guest:And as long as I could say those words, I know I'm doing pretty good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And made an appointment.
Guest:And then that day later, one day later, WWE called me and they said there's been an issue with
Guest:with your impact test and so independently of each other both of these neurologists came to the conclusion that i was done because of your brain yeah just too many uh too many injuries and one of the things we learn as we go which i didn't know is at the time you know because everyone thinks they're you know they're they're unstoppable when they're at their peak
Guest:But that as you get older, and I would, on one level, I realized I was getting hurt quicker.
Guest:It didn't take as much to hurt me, and it lasted longer.
Guest:But then there was also that sense that I don't feel that bad.
Guest:And I realized that I was pretty lucky to have a good job and a tough economy.
Guest:It didn't call for me to do that much.
Guest:It was like, I can take a few more of these.
Guest:And so it really did...
Guest:I mean, every wrestler's convinced they've got another match left in them.
Guest:And so I was lucky, fortunate, as it turns out, to have a neurologist, again, almost like Tori Amos with the funding, just throwing in the towel and saying, you've done enough.
Marc:You've done too much.
Marc:You've got a doctor's note addressed directly to your bad side.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:But, like, how did you hobble yourself?
Guest:What's with the... Oh, yeah, you could notice that as I was walking, right?
Marc:I mean, I think last time... Like, the last time we talked was 2004, so it's been 10 years.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So you were out of the racket four years.
Marc:And I was moving around okay, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I dropped some weight.
Guest:And I just... It was kind of mother nature.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Father time teaming up to kick my ass a little bit, Mark.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:telling me I wasn't as tough as I thought I was.
Marc:But you were like all-in guy.
Marc:I mean, like, I guess the reason why you were such a, you know, a phenomenal performer in that is that you would take risks, right?
Guest:I did.
Guest:You know, I didn't consider them risks.
Guest:Like, I consider myself to be high impact as far as high risk.
Guest:Like, I knew when I was doing things, there's going to be a price to pay.
Guest:High impact means you could take a beating.
Guest:I could take a beating.
Guest:I could, like, even as, you know...
Guest:I mean, everyone had their idea of what wrestling was.
Guest:And on my one-man show, I elaborate on this a little bit, but I actually had a formula in my head.
Guest:I thought, if I do things that hurt me enough, people will think they hurt me a little.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because I was a fan who liked to figure out how moves were done and how the aura of danger was created without putting the wrestler's body at too much risk.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the thing that I was really fascinated by were the moves I couldn't figure out.
Guest:I'd watch them over and over.
Guest:I don't know how they do that.
Guest:Who did those?
Guest:Oh, there was a lot of that you'd see in Japan and Jimmy Superfly Snooka with the Superfly Splash.
Guest:Terry Funk with an N. We're not dealing with the FCC here, but just to be clear, Terry Funk with an N. And I would try to figure out how these guys did the most.
Guest:So it was like magic.
Guest:Well, it wasn't magic.
Guest:It would be like when you watch... What's the one with... There were two great magic movies out at the Prestige.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:And then you find out the way they do the dove.
Guest:The dove is actually killed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:You got to beat the shit out of yourself.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It wasn't a magic trick at all.
Guest:He was actually getting hurt.
Guest:And when I was 19, and I thought that seemed like a pretty good idea.
Guest:Like, everything I do will...
Guest:will cause people to look at each other and go, oh, that had to hurt.
Guest:It looks like after 30 years, the secret is, you were right.
Guest:You were right.
Guest:It did hurt.
Guest:Yeah, it did hurt.
Guest:So let's get back to your dad and what seemed to be a long hair problem.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:In 1981, when your dad's the athletic director, it seems ridiculous now because hairstyles have changed so much.
Guest:I used to get knocked like in the late 70s.
Guest:I remember a girl coming up to me and singing, square, ain't got no hair, because I was the only guy in the school.
Guest:I'm talking about in the school with a crew cut.
Guest:He made to have a crew cut?
Guest:It didn't make me.
Marc:Understood?
Guest:I liked it.
Guest:You know, I liked it.
Guest:And I guess in that sense, I liked being different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Probably if everyone had their hair long, I would not.
Guest:I'd try it a different way.
Guest:And even with the short hair, you know, being out, like a mohawk in 1982 was like almost unheard of.
Guest:so when i showed up with a mohawk because i was on the school wrestling team with kevin james oh he's funny high school teammate yeah was he funny then he was funny but he was mostly like tough yeah like people forget now that he's done the ufc movie you know people are okay you know you can see he looks like a wrestler yeah yeah yeah he was one of two guys in school who could bench 300 pounds in case you're wondering i was not the other one he's that guy yeah he was that guy that makes sense
Guest:To this day, I feel like going out for that team, knowing that he was already penciling in as a heavyweight, was like the boldest, gutsiest move that I had ever made.
Guest:And if somebody had stopped me on my way down to the wrestling room and said, you know Kevin James down there.
Guest:If I'd thought about it, I probably would have said, I'm out of here.
Guest:really he was a badass huh yeah i mean he was a guy you guys mess with you stay in touch we did for many years yeah many years and then the last time i saw him i was a surprise guest on katie couric's show uh-huh and uh like this is your life this is your life it was you know grown-ups too and so the theme was they were surprising people surprising the cast with guests from their past so it was adam sandler's basketball coach oh right right right and i came in as the guest from
Guest:kevin's bass so we got to catch up for 10 minutes while we sat there because i was like you know the you know the surprise guys i didn't see him before was he happy to see you he acted like it yeah yeah yeah yeah he was you know i know one time when they uh surprised him with uh uh with a mick foley contribution i think he was promoting the zookeeper yeah we have a guest from your past via video and he was like oh mick foley like he knew it was coming
Guest:He knew it was coming, but he certainly, yeah, he was a good dude, man.
Guest:We used to hang out not only in high school.
Guest:He transferred to my college, and we did some road trips and listened to some Springsteen.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, back in 1986.
Marc:Yeah, you and him just in the car, born to run.
Guest:Born in the USA by this time.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Then you didn't go back?
Marc:It was just the new stuff?
Guest:Well, of course you'd go back.
Guest:Yeah, I guess you would.
Guest:I just heard Candy's Room yesterday.
Guest:It's good, right?
Guest:Yeah, they were playing the entire... Darkness.
Guest:Darkness.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:Now that we're on Springsteen, I'm not saying it wasn't a great album.
Guest:It's a great album.
Guest:How did it get so big among high schoolers?
Guest:Because it's pretty depressing.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, that record, I think, is that after Born to Run or before?
Marc:It was after Born to Run.
Marc:So I think he grabbed everybody with the spirit of Born to Run.
Marc:And then I think he spent like two or three years on darkness.
Marc:I mean, it was like that was the epic.
Marc:I mean, the journey got a little darker for him after Born to Run.
Marc:Born to Run's like almost romantic.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's passionate.
Marc:There's this sort of a go-get-it kind of embrace the American dream with all your creative spirit.
Marc:And then it got a little dark.
Marc:Got a little dark.
Marc:Stayed a little dark for a while.
Guest:Yeah, when he ends with darkness on the edge of town, it's almost like you're left feeling like, oh, there's no hope whatsoever.
Marc:I know, but Bruce is so elevated about it.
Marc:He's very passionate.
Marc:There's always hope in his voice.
Marc:Have you ever met him?
Guest:Yeah, I did meet Bruce a couple times.
Guest:Actually, if you go through the last...
Guest:10 years of photos.
Guest:There was a very good chance I'll be wearing a vest that says Bruce Springsteen and the E Street brand, Stockholm, Sweden, like 1993.
Guest:And it was given to me by one of Bruce's best friends, Terry McGovern.
Guest:And I wore the vest for two very good reasons.
Guest:One, I was a big Bruce fan.
Guest:I loved the fact that Terry had given to me his gift.
Guest:And the second reason was...
Guest:when the fanny pack went out like in 2000 before i brought it roaring back to life six months ago when i realized i was is that why everyone's wearing them i was wondering it's all you mick i realized i looked at this is the truth i looked at a segment wwe had on their network and i realized like i committed so many fashion errors in a 10-minute segment and i just looked at my kids and i was like why don't i just start wearing the fanny pack
Guest:But up until then, the Terry McGovern Springsteen vest, it had zippers on the pockets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like a kangaroo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was my pack.
Marc:So it was for practical reasons.
Guest:Practical reasons and also emotionally.
Guest:I felt very tied to it.
Marc:What did Bruce say to you when he met Bruce?
Guest:Bruce always very soft-spoken.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, he was always very cordial.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it would be a great stretch for me to say that he was a pal.
Marc:Yeah, just sort of in passing.
Yeah.
Guest:All right, so... But I will say that Nils Lofgren came to my show in Phoenix.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:And he played me like... He does, yeah.
Marc:I got that box set.
Marc:I got to dig into that, man.
Guest:Nils is awesome, and he actually... I was surprised one day.
Guest:WWE announcer Michael Cole sent me over an email and had Nils doing, like, an impromptu song when I was inducted into the Hall of Fame, you know, and I...
Guest:i'd always to this day i i swear that like the live version of youngstown of madison square garden is the coolest guitar solo i've ever heard yeah oh it was like i really i was there at the time now i can't tell you first he did 10 nights at the garden yeah so i'm not sure which night it was but i just remember like my friend scott darrow friend friends instead of great he goes
Guest:nils is going off like we were aware that yeah something was happening historic and then when the when the dvd came out and uh and the cd i was just like mesmerized by it just just thought it was powerful really really loved it so like with with your father you know going back you know you you guys were tense for how long
Guest:Maybe just those couple high school years.
Guest:And then as time went by, we became very close, and he was very close with my children.
Guest:Did he appreciate the wrestling?
Guest:Yeah, he did.
Guest:He did.
Guest:You would think he would not, but he did.
Guest:Did you have to explain it to him?
Guest:No.
Guest:And here's the thing.
Guest:Even though my dad was like the real, the real sports guy and I grew up, you know, with my childhood, this is a weird thing.
Guest:Like I fondly remember like the scent of BO.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like that was like a good thing.
Guest:The locker room kind of deal?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Even if we went to a cross country meet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and that wasn't my favorite.
Guest:That was a, you know, basketball, baseball, football.
Marc:You did everything.
Marc:You had to do everything.
Guest:I had to go to every event.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Women's field, everything, you know, but like that was like a. Why?
Marc:Because you were with him?
Guest:That was how we spent time.
Guest:My dad worked a lot.
Marc:So that was like how we... Where are you going?
Marc:We're taking a road trip.
Guest:Yeah, we'd go everywhere.
Marc:Or some field hockey.
Guest:And then during the basketball games, like the coolest thing was he'd give us the key to the weight room.
Guest:And at that time, like...
Guest:Lifting weights for fun seemed cool.
Guest:It never did after, you know.
Marc:And once you had to maintain your physique.
Guest:Yeah, right, right.
Guest:I always just did it because I had to, not because I enjoyed it at all.
Guest:But it was really wrestling that brought us back together.
Guest:And I know this sounds funny with, like, a non-fan, but there's something, like, multi-generational about it.
Guest:I mean, I can't—I'm not exaggerating when I tell you, like, thousands of people have said—
Guest:I used to watch it.
Guest:They always include the grandfather, the father, the uncle.
Guest:And in so many cases, there are people, relatives who are having a tough time everywhere else.
Guest:And this was specific to Mike.
Guest:I'm talking about my case specifically, but in general, it's safe to say that for a lot of people, it's the one thing they feel more comfortable watching with company.
Guest:Then alone.
Marc:Because it's a good time.
Guest:Yeah, let's watch some wrestling.
Guest:And my dad could appreciate that.
Marc:I think they know that it's a controlled environment.
Guest:That's almost what it is.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:It's like these guys are putting on a show for our enjoyment.
Guest:Yeah, and it all seems kind of safe that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay, so he was on board the whole way.
Guest:He was.
Guest:Very supportive of me when I started out, even when the money wasn't exactly piling up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I came home from Nigeria in 1987 after I'd literally been bludgeoned by fans.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Turns out that not everyone in the world knows it's entertainment.
Guest:And if you cheat in Nigeria against the Nigerian champion, Power Udi, some people will take it the wrong way.
Guest:Even though it was a script.
Guest:Well, yeah, but in this case, one of the few times that I wrestled in front of more than a few hundred people, there were about 30,000 people in this stadium in 1987.
Guest:Yeah, and I hit Power Udi with...
Guest:It was actually a large cow's bone, like a thigh bone.
Guest:And next thing I know, I'm just being pummeled by fans.
Guest:Jesus Christ.
Guest:The wrestlers dragged me out of there, and I was stitched up in a chemist's office with a dirt floor because they told me not to trust the hospital.
Guest:Because they might have... Well, I don't know what that means.
Guest:Chemist's office.
Guest:So, yeah, the wrestlers, I feel like they saved my life over there.
Guest:And when I got home, you know, with like $300 for the two weeks after, you know, having a life-threatening experience, my dad was like, hey...
Guest:Not everyone could say they went to Nigeria.
Guest:He was always like, glass half full.
Guest:Great experience, Meg.
Guest:And I couldn't appreciate it at the time.
Marc:So when you retired, though, were you set?
Marc:I mean, was that a choice?
Marc:You were like, I got enough bread to go?
Guest:Well, I was pretty, I say pretty thrifty.
Guest:Some people would say extremely thrifty on the road.
Guest:Uh, and I had saved a lot of money and I'd been there when things, times were really good.
Guest:I didn't know that the, you know, the economy was going to tank a couple of times.
Guest:So it was almost like, and then I didn't know that the world was going to line up at my door to read my novels.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, uh, after the, the, the second novel, uh, well, it was actually after the first.
Guest:A lot of goodwill out there.
Guest:there for a lot of goodwill yeah but didn't mean that they're gonna follow me on that journey just like you know the the show i do is by and large it's like a wrestling centric storytelling show i've been at it for five years it's taking people a long time to figure out that it's a wrestling show like when i when i show up does anyone have any idea you know what i do so sometimes you go to a cold room
Guest:No, no, they're really receptive.
Guest:And I'll go out on a limb and say I greatly outperformed their limited expectations.
Guest:Well, let's see.
Guest:So you did four novels.
Guest:Two novels.
Guest:Two novels.
Guest:Four memoirs.
Guest:Yeah, four memoirs.
Guest:And that sounds horrible.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So six books.
Guest:And then four kids' books.
Marc:And how those go.
Guest:kids books were good you know the first two sold really well uh the last two didn't but they were like the better books you know and so there's a moral lesson it's been with the novels it was the same thing you know i'll tell you what happened um kevin smith came to our premiere in la for i am santa claus and we did his podcast after the show
Guest:And he explained that he and his wife don't go to the movies.
Guest:They went out of their way to see this.
Guest:And it was really gratifying to have a guy who knew movies telling me why it was good.
Guest:Me and the director.
Guest:And I said, Kevin, you just made me critic-proof.
Guest:He goes, dude, you haven't seen my reviews.
Guest:I said, not that, not that.
Guest:I said, but from now on, it doesn't matter if I get a horrible review because my answer internally will be,
Guest:Kevin Smith liked it.
Guest:He knows more about movies than you.
Guest:When it came to novels, it was Richard Price who did Clockers and most of the writing for The Wire, the first two seasons, really like a writer's writer.
Guest:And he read it beforehand.
Guest:He was one of my... The first novel?
Guest:The second one.
Guest:And then I got a call back.
Guest:Well, actually, I asked my...
Guest:My editor, Victoria Wilson, who had edited for Nobel Prize winners, you know, if I instead of her sending like, you know, letters to writers that she knew, if I could maybe send letters to writers whose work I like thinking they might like mine.
Guest:And I remember saying, darling, you know, you can do whatever you like, but don't expect anything from this.
Guest:And at that time, everything was handwritten.
Guest:So I wrote 12 letters.
Guest:To who?
Guest:Jonathan Kellerman and Stephen King and John Irving and Richard Price.
Guest:And then one day, and she read them and said, darling, these are very charming.
Guest:Don't get your hopes up.
Guest:And then I'm at my home one night.
Guest:I get a phone call.
Guest:Before 2004 was like before texting and tweeting.
Guest:And it was Richard Price.
Guest:And he was like, I'm really enjoying this novel.
Guest:And I'm going to give you a great blurb when I'm done.
Guest:And maybe someday we can get together and trade stories.
Guest:I said, OK, about what?
Guest:He said, about growing up in the Bronx, because my book was set in the Bronx in the 60s.
Guest:I said, I didn't grow up in the Bronx.
Guest:And so here's Richard Reisman, nominated for a National Book Award and an Academy Award.
Guest:He goes, you must have really done your homework.
Guest:And I said, well, come from you, Mr. Price.
Guest:That's a great honor.
Guest:And he ended up writing me a blurb that was actually better written than anything I could ever write.
Guest:It was so profound.
Guest:And it clearly wasn't like, not to pick on Larry King, but it wasn't just like, you know, he does it again.
Marc:No one does it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like Camille, yeah.
Guest:Clearly, he had read the book and had this great quote.
Guest:And from that point on, whereas I took the criticism for the first novel to heart, let it get to me, I was very realistic about the sales and knew that I would take a beating from a few critics here or there, even though overall, critics are very kind to both my novels.
Guest:When those bad ones did come, I was like, Richard Bryce likes my books.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He knows more about writing than you do.
Marc:Did Stephen King get back to you?
Guest:Stephen King did not, but I did get, at that time, my publisher said, I think I know the answer to this question, but would you mind if we gave John Irving your address?
Guest:I was like, no, I don't mind if you give John Irving my address.
Guest:And I swear, I felt like Charlie Bucket, you know, when he gets that golden ticket one day at home and there's Jay Irving, you know.
Guest:He wrote you?
Guest:He wrote me.
Guest:And so, and he was like, he was explaining why he couldn't get to the book.
Guest:He said, he read my first novel, enjoyed it.
Guest:And then he kind of gave a very, very descriptive.
Marc:He's a wrestling guy.
Guest:He is a wrestling guy.
Guest:And he wrote to me how he dislocated his finger graphically.
Guest:And then he said, thought you might enjoy it, given your background.
Guest:So I wrote him back.
Guest:I said, dear Mr. Irving, thank you very much for taking time to write to me.
Guest:Don't worry about not having the time.
Guest:I said, one of my fears is that one day,
Guest:i'll be a real writer and people i don't know will be sending books to me ask if i'll review them and like a week later i get a book dear mr foley please don't concern yourself with whether or not you're a real writer he said those who would classify writers as either uh literary or commercial can be counted on to be neither and they told a story about how uh you know uh you know a critic saw him having lunch with stephen king and later expressed
Guest:surprise and he said you know steven and i have more in common than you might think neither one of us would even you know would begin a project unless we were sure we could shock or offend somebody and it began this nice like and i swear i would look at that blank page and i would be so nervous because i knew without my editor putting in the semicolon yeah you know and the hyphens in the right place like i'm just this wrestling dude you know with a
Marc:But did you go into wrestling?
Marc:You went to college, right?
Guest:I went to college, and I started breaking into pro wrestling when I was 19, when I was a sophomore in college.
Marc:Where'd you go?
Guest:Cortland, New York.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Cortland, New York.
Guest:And I was actually born in Bloomington, Indiana.
Guest:I see you've got the Bloomington shirt.
Marc:Yeah, I like Bloomington.
Guest:And you've been there to the comedy attic, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a nice little room.
Marc:Jared's a good guy.
Marc:Yeah, he is a good guy.
Marc:Yeah, he's a believer.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, believer in comedy.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:And it's been really cool for me.
Guest:How long were you lived there for?
Guest:Oh, just a little while.
Guest:My dad was studying for his doctorate there.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:That's where you got his degree?
Marc:It's a hell of a school, that place.
Guest:It's kind of cool.
Guest:So I grew up as a big IU fan.
Guest:I was in tears when they were down by... But what'd you study?
Guest:I studied communications.
Guest:So you really didn't have a background in English or anything?
Guest:No, but looking back on it, when I took English in college, like I remember finding my, you know, papers years later.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, like, you know, 15 years later.
Guest:And one of the professors had said, you should really consider this for a career.
Guest:And at the time, you know, that sounded ridiculous.
Guest:Had a good feel for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But when I went back and look at stuff I wrote as like a six or seven year old, it was pretty good.
Yeah.
Marc:Now, when you look back, like, you know, in talking about, you know, your charity work or your causes, I mean, do you ever, when you look at the sort of damage that wrestling does to guys, and a lot of guys didn't fare as well as you, even though you're a little beat up, you know, mentally and emotionally, you seem to have a pretty good spirit.
Marc:I mean, it seems like there's a lot of dudes that didn't fare as well.
Marc:How do you feel about them?
Marc:Have you ever been put in a position to help some of your comrades out?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know what?
Guest:When people ask me...
Guest:what I'm proudest you know there's something I'm proud of I'm the only WWE champion that I know of that doesn't actually have a you know the physical championship belt that he won and when my kids you know younger kids and other big fans are like dad why don't you have the the belt yeah and it's like it's like I'd
Guest:They kind of know, but I haven't, like... But I basically put it up for auction to help a wrestler pay his medical bills.
Guest:So, you know, like, I look back, like, I wish I had the belt, but I like what not having it represents.
Guest:You know, like... And besides, like, I've got...
Guest:this thing that reminds me of my career.
Guest:Like I don't need something on a wall.
Guest:I've got this thing called waking up that reminds me.
Guest:And so like when given the choice again, I don't know if I would give that up.
Guest:I'd probably have it mounted in a special place.
Guest:But like I said, I'm kind of, I'm proud of what not having it represented.
Guest:How'd the guy do?
Guest:He got out of the hospital.
Guest:You know, he's, you know, it's a tough, it's a tough way to make a living.
Guest:It's a tough way.
Marc:But you didn't get strung out or nothing.
Marc:You were never a drug guy?
Guest:No, I was never a drug guy at all.
Guest:And as a matter of fact, when I was in the late 80s, early 1990s, when I was wrestling with Ted Turner's World Championship Wrestling, the character I had was that of a psychologically deranged man.
Guest:But among the guys, the thing that made them suspend disbelief was the idea that
Guest:He doesn't smoke pot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He must be crazy.
Guest:Because at the time, I mean, that's harmless, fairly harmless.
Guest:And I avoided it because I knew that I'd like it if I ever tried it.
Guest:So I never even tried it.
Guest:Never even tried it.
Guest:Well, I think you got off on taking risks.
Guest:maybe so and I also realized at a young age you know at age 19 that this was going to be a style that had consequences and that I was realistic enough to know that you don't don't medicate you know unless you really really need it and there are some nights you know days when I really really need something and then I'll take it but like you know I have to get my refill every six months because it's expired and I've only taken three pills and
Guest:Right.
Guest:Six months.
Guest:So, yeah, I was always pretty good that way.
Marc:And when did you decide to start doing a live show?
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:Because I know it's been going on a while.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Has it evolved?
Guest:Yeah, it's really... You know what?
Guest:Montreal.
Guest:You do comedy clubs.
Guest:I do comedy clubs.
Guest:So, it's funny because people say, oh, so you do stand-up.
Guest:And I kind of wince.
Guest:And it does nothing to do with the respect I have for comics, because when other comics see me and go, yeah, we tell stories, of course it's part of stand-up comedy.
Guest:But I think when wrestling fans hear stand-up, they picture me in a bow tie telling one-liners about the weather.
Guest:um turning point for me you said last time we really talked was 2004 but i saw you a couple years ago in montreal right and when i went to montreal i was with a comic doing a double bill with an australian comic named brendan burns yeah i know brendan well that's right oh that remember yeah yeah yeah he was like he's a big uh pt barnum he's a big spectacle oh yeah yeah
Marc:So I didn't know what that show was.
Marc:But did you do that in Europe with him, too?
Marc:Yeah, we did that.
Guest:Well, Brendan met Brendan.
Guest:We did a guest set.
Guest:And, I mean, he's, you know, he's razor sharp.
Guest:You know, I mean, one of the knocks on Brendan is he works.
Guest:He doesn't work...
Guest:you know why you know he's well you're either with him or you're not and uh but what he loved about working with me is he got to do his wrestling stuff yeah you know he was no longer doing social commentary right right right he was able to have fun and let loose and uh when we get ready to do montreal we'd be doing our press and guys so you know is it a wrestling show and i go well i use wrestling as a jumping off point to explore greater and he got mate
Guest:It's a wrestling show.
Guest:And I go, well, no, Brendan.
Guest:Mate, it's a wrestling show.
Guest:It wasn't until I went to Montreal.
Guest:And we did get it.
Guest:We had good shows, Brendan and I. But I was walking around that hotel looking at one guy after another who was funnier than me.
Guest:It was like the reality check.
Guest:Wait a second.
Guest:You are the wrestling guy.
Guest:yeah yeah yeah you are you're never gonna be as funny as these guys you might be if you put in 25 years right but i was like but i've got stories yeah louis ck doesn't have a story about ending a match with his front tooth in his nose yeah i do play to your strengths and it was like as soon as i got that yeah and became comfortable with it like shows became better almost immediately you remind me of rollins
Guest:really yeah it's a good thing yeah like uh because you know you have a natural ability you're a raconteur and you can directly draw from amazing experiences and just keep talking well i was at a club and i you know it reminds me so much of the wrestling business because you absorb everything you can and you're very respectful like if one of the comics sees my show and has pointers of course you're respectful someone's giving you pointers
Guest:Oh, a lot of, you know, I've had, well, Brendan's really taken me under his wing.
Guest:You know, he'd write these long emails, you know, explaining why I might get a better laugh if I put more emphasis on the last syllable.
Marc:Was he right?
Guest:Usually.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, usually.
Guest:And then he, like, I didn't have the heart to tell him, like, the one thing that he really built up had already been taken out of the show.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And so I'd have to include it when Brendan toured with me, so I didn't...
Guest:Didn't hurt his feelings, yeah.
Guest:But then I take what people tell me.
Guest:Judah Friedlander was really helpful.
Guest:Did he tell you to talk more about poop?
Guest:No, but this is what Judah did for me.
Guest:I had kind of given up on comedy or storytelling because I was a bundle of nerves before I did it.
Guest:It was like I was going out for a pay-per-view.
Guest:I was in front of 17 people in Worcester.
Guest:You were more scared?
Guest:You know, when you're out of your comfort zone, especially when I was doing, like, the unbilled guest sets, you know, showing up at the club.
Marc:It's hard, man, because a lot of comics are like, why is he fucking taking stage time up?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Why is the wrestler here?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I love him.
Marc:I love mankind.
Guest:But, you know, it's a comedy club.
Guest:But they appreciated that I was there doing it for free.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, taking my time, trying it out.
Guest:But I basically abandoned hope.
Guest:I'd given up on it.
Guest:why did you bomb i'd bombed a few times not severely but i how could you tell because you were expecting laughs i could i could feel it and i'd had some good shows yeah so i knew what a good show i thought i knew what a good show could feel like but the pivotal moment for me was when i told the wounded warriors that uh hey i was gonna want going on a uh
Guest:I like doing a fundraiser with them at the Broadway Comedy Club in New York.
Guest:And I told the guy, I used to do some comedies, so if you want, you know, I'll do a set.
Guest:The Winter Warriors Veterans?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I sat in the front table, and they had a, you know, New York, you know, the showcase night.
Guest:So there's not a bad comic in the lot.
Guest:Everyone's doing like a really polished eight to ten minutes.
Guest:Didn't know it at the time, but that's where I first saw Amy Schumer.
Guest:When I met her in Montreal, she was like, dude, I saw you, you know.
Guest:And I remember her specifically pointing me out and saying I used to,
Guest:cock blocker on Mondays because her boyfriend would be watching the show I don't know if I'm allowed to say that not at that time let's talk about late 1990s but Judah goes on and of course Judah kills and then they say hey we have a special guest you know you might know him from WWE Mick Foley
Guest:And I proceeded to go up and just tank on a level I didn't think was possible.
Guest:And at one point, I just looked out at the crowd and I said, if I was in a pool, I would ask for a life preserver because I'm drowning up here.
Guest:And it was like the most painful experience of my life, like worse than any wrestling match that tanked.
Guest:You were the heel with no control.
Guest:Yeah, and you couldn't even have an outlet if you have a bad match.
Guest:You have the physical pain.
Guest:It lends a helping hand to the emotional hurt.
Guest:This is just sheer, open, emotional heartbreak.
Guest:Sorry, pal.
Guest:But Judah was there when I walked off.
Guest:When I walked off the stage, I swore to myself, I'm never going up there again.
Guest:I don't ever want to revisit this moment again.
Guest:And he was there, and he goes,
Guest:Dude, it wasn't as bad as you thought.
Guest:Dude, it was awful.
Guest:He goes, dude.
Guest:He goes, ordinarily, if someone goes four straight minutes without a single laugh, they're done.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, but people are actually listening to you.
Guest:He goes, that's something other comics will never have.
Guest:He goes, don't get me wrong, dude.
Guest:You got to find a way to make this funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and then you know so he started taking me under his wing and he'd call me out but I'd go into the city and we'd do like the five clubs in a night you know yeah and uh was he a wrestling fan he was a huge wrestling fan yeah I'm even on like I'm immortalized on 30 Rock because uh Judah's wearing uh the old school Mick Foley Cactus Jack shirt yeah on uh on the Christmas episode uh and I had to sign like 12 forms you know just to give them access to it but uh yeah he definitely saved me and then
Guest:You know, things started picking up a little bit.
Guest:Good enough to get to Montreal.
Guest:Good enough to, you know, do a little tour of Europe.
Guest:And then there were guys like Brendan there.
Guest:But really the key for me was realizing I've got to roll.
Guest:Like, I'm pushing.
Guest:Like, people are coming to the door and I'm slamming it shut on them.
Guest:Saying, no, I'm doing social commentary, you know.
Guest:And then once I realized I'm the wrestling guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And also once I realized, like, from the other side that there is something to be said of just leaving people feeling good.
Guest:Like, they can find other places to think deep thoughts.
Guest:They don't need to do that at my show.
Marc:Do you talk about, like, the creation of, like, Cactus Jack and of Mankind?
Marc:I will.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Do you do a Q&A?
Guest:I do a Q&A, yeah, at the end of every show.
Guest:We do about 20 minutes.
Guest:And what do people usually want to know?
Guest:Are they usually wrestling fans?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Like, 95% of them are wrestling fans.
Guest:But I get a lot of questions.
Guest:One of the nice things is women will come up...
Guest:And they'll specifically say, I had no idea what to expect.
Guest:I'm not a wrestling fan.
Guest:I really enjoyed your show.
Guest:And I said, thank you for it.
Guest:I saw Richard Lewis.
Guest:I imagine you know him over the years.
Guest:As I got out of the hotel, I did Young Hollywood.
Guest:And I saw him walking in.
Guest:Today?
Guest:Yeah, just today.
Guest:And I rolled down my window, and I said, hey, Richard, I'm a big fan.
Guest:And I don't think he knew who I was.
Guest:And I did say, my name is Mick Foley.
Guest:I'm a wrestler.
Guest:I do a one-man show, so I really appreciate and respect everything you've done.
Guest:And he got this big smile, and he says, thanks, man.
Guest:You made me feel great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like, and I left.
Guest:It was like a 20-second interaction, and I drove down the road like, I felt good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like, I don't know if he ever knows.
Guest:That was kind of a cool thing.
Guest:You made him feel good for a few minutes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:But how long is the show when you do it?
Guest:I do about an hour, and then we go to the Q&A, and then I try to bring it home with a final story.
Guest:And then my gimmick, in wrestlers speak, is I try to drop just one F-bomb a night and try to find a cool way to do it.
Guest:So if I do my, you're looking like cynically.
Guest:I can't stop saying fuck.
Fuck.
Guest:It'd be amazing if I could do one a night, that'd be a miracle.
Guest:You know what I was doing?
Guest:And I think a lot of guys do this.
Guest:Some guys are magical with the word.
Guest:And I don't put anyone who does it really well down.
Guest:But I think for guys who are starting out, it's a crutch.
Guest:It's almost like the big move in wrestling, like the steel chair to the head.
Guest:It's like, oh, that does create a lot of drama and realism, but
Guest:you're using it as a crutch, because you know people go, ooh.
Marc:I don't even think about it.
Marc:I think I'm lazy.
Marc:It's just part of the way I talk, and I don't know that people don't talk like that until I say it in a situation, like an office situation, or where regular people, I just throw fucks all over the place, and they're like, what is going on?
Marc:And I'm like, I don't know.
Marc:Doesn't everyone talk like this?
Marc:I didn't even think about it.
Guest:And most of the guys in the wrestling business do sprinkle their sentences liberally.
Marc:But when you perform stand-up as Mick Foley, I mean, what parts of performing that you learned as a wrestler do you engage?
Marc:Well, you know, the comfort with the microphone.
Marc:And I guess some of the timing... Are you distanced from yourself, though?
Marc:Do you think you're doing... Is the character of Mick Foley on stage doing Mick Foley something you have distanced from?
Marc:No, no.
Guest:I mean, it's kind of cool.
Guest:I mean, I try to invite everybody in.
Guest:I know it's kind of cliche.
Guest:You leave a piece of yourself on the stage.
Marc:No, you're a pretty open-hearted guy.
Marc:But when you did wrestling characters, you were very aware that this guy lived in this other world.
Marc:But over time, people felt like they knew me.
Guest:in a strange way and there was a pivotal series of interviews in 1997 and this was at a time when you'd still go to the local weather station and do the weather news station do the weather in character it was a different day and if wrestlers were on the Tonight Show they were on in character if I was on this show it would seem ludicrous now to have an hour come in could you do an hour?
Guest:When I would do a, you know, the, the infancy of the wrestling, you know, uh, you know, uh, there weren't podcasts then, but if you did a wet, you know, website, yeah, you'd be in character at all times.
Guest:It was like expected of it for a one-on-one for an hour.
Marc:Come on.
Guest:You can, you can do mankind for an hour.
Guest:I did Cactus Jack for six months in Texas with my girlfriend.
Guest:I had no way of letting her know that the guy she met was a character.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I did, and I didn't know how to break it to her because she was attracted to that character.
Guest:You mean you were having sex as Cactus Jack?
Guest:I was.
Guest:The date I was.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:Here's the funny thing.
Guest:She started catching on because I am, like, you know, I am a nice guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it wasn't that I wouldn't be mean to her.
Guest:I was just, you know, a little out there as Cactus Jack.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I got a phone call.
Guest:I remember her specifically saying to me, like, Jack.
Guest:She called me Jack.
Guest:Didn't know my name.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:You just let it go on.
Guest:Jack just said, I know.
Guest:And I said...
Guest:Know what?
Guest:She says, I know.
Guest:I said, what do you think you know?
Guest:And she wouldn't say what she knew.
Guest:A few days later, man, a week, you know, a lot of time has passed.
Guest:I got a phone call and she said, I need to talk to you.
Guest:I said, can you tell me over the phone?
Guest:She said, no, I need to talk to you in person.
Guest:So on the drive over, I think I was 24.
Guest:What else could it be, you know?
Guest:What else could it be?
Guest:She found you out.
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh, you thought she was pregnant or something?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she needed to borrow $300.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I said, oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Not that I made a lot of money.
Guest:That was about all I made in a week.
Guest:But I said, I can lend you money.
Guest:And later that night when it came that time, I said, I can't do it.
Guest:And she said, why not?
Guest:And I said, on my way over here, I promised God that if you weren't pregnant, I wouldn't have sex with you for a month.
Guest:And she looked at me, she was, you're kidding me.
Guest:And I said, no, I'm not kidding.
Guest:I was in character, you know.
Guest:And she said, Jack, God doesn't make deals.
Guest:Well, he made one with me.
Guest:And she said, you know, I thought this crazy thing was just an act, but you really are out of your mind.
Guest:Yeah, like it was that bond I had, the promise I made, you know.
Marc:It's complicated.
Guest:So she wasn't pregnant.
Guest:She was not.
Guest:She just needed money?
Guest:She needed a little bit of money.
Marc:Just a little bit.
Guest:And Jack would fuck her.
Guest:No, not for a month.
Guest:I think I caved in after three weeks.
Marc:That's crazy.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:That was the world I was living in at that time.
Marc:So what is your relationship with wrestling now?
Marc:I know it sounds like you'd go back in and out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got a call as I was heading for the premiere in L.A.
Guest:asking me if I could be on Raw.
Guest:That's the big Monday night show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, man, I had your show lined up on Tuesday.
Guest:And so at one point, I actually was going to go from Los Angeles, and I had already gone from New York to Los Angeles on the red eye.
Guest:Then I was catching red eye from Los Angeles to Kansas City, and I was going to take another red eye or early morning flight back, followed by a red eye back to New York just to do your podcast.
Guest:And I said...
Guest:I can't do it.
Guest:Like, I can't do it.
Guest:And honestly, when I had the one day off on this, on this tour and I, and I, and I was told, uh, Tommy, the director, I'd go out to LA on my one day off.
Guest:He, he was able to contact you and get the show booked.
Guest:And then I call him like, Tommy, I don't, that's a lot of time.
Guest:He's like, no, no, don't do this.
Guest:You can't cancel on Marin twice.
Guest:Like you are correct.
Guest:I cannot cancel on Marin twice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I couldn't do it, man.
Guest:Then I would be the boy who cried wolf.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But so what did you do?
Marc:What did you do for Raw?
Marc:I mean, what was the capacity?
Guest:Well, you know what?
Guest:I'm, you know, kind of associated with this match known as Hell in a Cell took place in June of 1998.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's an annual tradition now.
Guest:And they were given two of the younger guys.
Marc:You did the first one?
Guest:I did the second one, but, you know, it was kind of like the defining one as far as a lot of wrestling fans are concerned.
Guest:And so they were given two of the younger guys, guys seasoned veterans but young as far as the WWE, you know, in that company are concerned.
Guest:And they were getting their shot, their first real singles main event.
Guest:Mr. McMahon, who I used to refer to as Vince, thought that I might be able to add something to it.
Guest:And so I got that call and...
Guest:brought in under a veil of secrecy like no one even i didn't even tell my kids because usually i say hey make sure to watch raw yeah yeah and uh i just wanted to see like if i could still like you know if there was like the element of surprise was something special and it turned out it was a good call because my older kids were watching and they were like celebrating it was a good appearance you know you surprised your kids on my kids and one of the the one of the uh
Guest:Um, difficulties I had was explaining to WWE that I was wearing Santa Claus themed attire for an entire year and would therefore have to wear something Santa Claus-esque even on Raw.
Guest:And at that point, they were like, they just, you know, I think we just, we, we want to get along.
Guest:So I, I, I wore the, the Cactus Jacks, you know, classic red and black flannel vest.
Guest:And then I had a very nice, uh, uh, Santa Claus button down on it.
Guest:underneath it and we ended up using it as part of the the you know the the the promo is for the movie yeah no well we didn't i didn't i know i'm not out there to talk about the movie like right it's time to do business on the show i don't want to distract from that but uh the guy um seth rollins did make an allusion to it and then i was able to say do you know why i you know wear this shirt
Guest:So I cling to the last vestiges of my innocence, the ones that weren't torn away by this demonic structure.
Guest:And so I was able to kind of get a little thing.
Guest:And people knew, and all of a sudden millions of people knew, this is the 300th day in a row that he's wearing Santa Claus attire.
Marc:You made a commitment to your fans?
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I made a commitment.
Guest:I actually made a commitment to Morgan Spurlock when we met him in early April.
Guest:Why him?
Guest:Well, Tommy Avalone had always wanted this to be a Morgan Spurlock project.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so we were having a chance to screen the movie, not in its infancy, but at about the halfway point.
Guest:No music.
Guest:It needed a lot of work.
Guest:And we screened it for Morgan.
Guest:The day after WrestleMania caught us 6 a.m.
Guest:to New Orleans, and it's just me, the director, Tommy Avaloni, and Morgan Spurlock, like, in his office.
Guest:And we queue up this, you know, this movie.
Guest:And for five minutes, he's kind of looking at it.
Guest:And at about five-minute mark, he started tapping his heels.
Guest:And I looked at Tommy, and I was like, he knows we've got a movie.
Guest:And knowing that, you know, promoting a documentary, you know, is always an uphill struggle.
Guest:It's really a labor of love.
Guest:And I just thought grassroots, I'll just start wearing Santa Claus stuff every day.
Guest:So I did tell Morgan, I said, it was like day 97.
Guest:I said, I'm pretty sure I've worn Santa Claus themed attire like every day.
Guest:And I'm going to just I'm going to have this alternate Twitter site of people listening.
Guest:And they real that my main Twitter site is.
Guest:real at real mcfoley the alternate one is hat foley is santa yeah and the only thing i do on that is document what i'm wearing every single day so people go there's only one tweet a day and it's what i'm wearing and my daughter got a huge laugh because she knows you know my my regular twitter site does pretty well and then i show her every week we go to the other site and see that i've lost 100 followers
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And she's like, why?
Guest:I was like, because there's just a lot of people who like me but aren't along for the ride yet.
Guest:The Santa ride.
Guest:But now, you know, now we're getting into the season, I think they're going to... It's a tough character for them to adjust here.
Marc:Yeah, they accept it.
Marc:But it's interesting to me that, like, you know, when you got called up by Mr. McMahon, it almost seems that you lock into this weird, almost touching respect for the medium.
Marc:You have a deep respect for wrestling.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And, you know, whatever's gone on, I mean, have you burned bridges?
Guest:Apparently not, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it seemed like I had at certain points.
Guest:But even when I left this, you know, eight or nine months ago, I had the feeling I'd be back.
Marc:But that's the weird thing is that, like, even if you burn bridges, I mean, I think that McMahon knows on some level the way that real life and wrestling actually sort of comes together is that if one of you guys is pissed off for as long as you want to be pissed off for, you know, the second that you want back in for whatever reason or he calls you up to do him a favor, then that just becomes a script.
Marc:Your real life becomes a script.
Guest:I hadn't thought of it that way, but I believe you might have just psychoanalyzed me.
Marc:No, but you know what I'm saying?
Marc:But you know what I'm saying?
Marc:I do.
Marc:Is that like, you know, from whatever tension you're building, for whatever genuine reasons you may have, if like, you know, punk is like, I guess, turned his back on wrestling.
Marc:But if you, whatever you're going through, your return is going to be glorious.
Guest:It's all about forgiveness.
Guest:I swear.
Guest:I think there's a part...
Guest:in the wrestler's mind that needs the closure.
Guest:Mr. McMahon's like a father figure to a lot of us.
Guest:Punk may be the one guy, he may be the exception that proves the rule.
Guest:He may be the guy who actually leaves and never, and he told me he's never coming back.
Guest:You know, I'd said that once upon a time.
Marc:Did you say, what are you going to do?
Guest:I did not.
Guest:No, because I figure, you know, he's got plenty of things.
Guest:He's writing a Thor comic, you know, he's a newlywed.
Guest:Like, he'll find something else.
Guest:It's like I get almost, seriously, on any given night, almost everything that I got out of wrestling I get by performing in front of 150, 200 people.
Guest:you know and uh it's like wow i love i love it up there and i'm sure he'll find something well yeah i mean it's just interesting is there part of you that thinks like good for you yeah yeah i mean you know i mean i'm pretty outspoken and saying like man if you're if you're punk and you made your living because you were passionate about what you did yeah and that passion dies and it's almost like you owe it to yourself and your fans you know to to
Guest:to leave like going back to springsteen my brother and i would argue because he was the original springsteen fan yeah i climbed on a couple years later and then my brother kind of hopped off and he said that bruce had sold out and he you know he was not playing with the band and he didn't play the songs i was like
Guest:John, if the guy's in his 50s and he's a multimillionaire, he's still writing songs about racing in the street, he's lying to himself and the public.
Guest:He's like a different guy.
Guest:And so I think that's something we have in common with musicians or comics is that they change as they get older.
Guest:You can't be that angry young man anymore or else it's just a facade.
Guest:Yeah, and an angry old man's not that appealing.
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:I remember I had this talk.
Guest:Dee Snider was a neighbor of mine for many years, just moved out here to L.A.
Guest:And I'll actually... This is a cool thing.
Guest:One of the cool things about doing these one-man shows is like Peoria and Rosemont were booked around Dee Snider's Christmas play.
Guest:He wrote A Twisted Christmas Tale.
Guest:Very good.
Guest:I saw it when he was like...
Guest:when it was in infancy when they were playing it for buyers.
Guest:You know, he and I support, you know, what the other one is doing.
Guest:And he said, like, he was out there after, you know, I want to rock, and we're not going to take it, like, floating in his pool, you know, at his beautiful house, going, okay, time to write my next angry teen anthem.
Guest:He's like, I can't do it.
Guest:Too happy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Too happy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I was late 80s, early 90s, a lot of my really good promo work, microphone stuff, was fueled by frustration.
Guest:But it's hard to be that guy when you're 49 and you've done everything you've wanted to do.
Guest:What were you frustrated about?
Guest:Well, you know, I didn't have the look that WWE was, you know, in vogue.
Guest:And this is something I've actually started a story, started including in my show, is getting a nice reaction, is that I knew all along Mr. McMahon was not, like, he wasn't a big fan of my look.
Guest:And it was only like four months ago at a wrestling fan convention in Galveston, Texas.
Guest:Keep in mind that the Mankind character had about two-thirds of his face obscured by a hideous leather mask.
Guest:And Bruce Prichard was at the wrestling convention.
Guest:He confirmed for me that it was finally a meeting in late 1995.
Guest:Mr. McMahon slammed his fist down the table.
Guest:He said, all right, damn it.
Guest:I'll bring him in, but I'm covering up his face.
Guest:You know, if I'd been offered that at the time, you know, when I met with him in 95, I've been, no.
Guest:He had another way of explaining why this was a great look for me, but it was really just one man's quest to cover up another man's face.
Guest:So that wasn't your idea?
Guest:No, I was really comfortable being who I had been, which was Cactus Jack, traveling the country and the world.
Guest:It worked everywhere I went.
Guest:I didn't see the need for a change, but as a lot of wrestling fans will know, as I progressed, Mr. McMahon, to his credit, came to understand I had a more interesting life.
Guest:pretty interesting life story he got that and he also got that you know in addition to being Cactus Jack I had this like kind of like fantasy you know a role that I created for myself when I was 17 as dude love you know and he was like cool he was all the things that I wasn't in real life and he decided to make that gag come to life
Guest:on the screen so you know with hindsight being 2020 you know i'm really fortunate that i came into the company in 1996 as a different character yeah because i got to be mankind i got to be cactus jack i got to be dude love and over time just kind of metamorphosized into you know mick foley where the fans you know will with a few exceptions always refer to me as mick foley and not mankind
Marc:I guess that is an amazing testament to you as a person that they're willing to do that because you were so many characters and they grew emotionally connected to all these different manifestations.
Marc:But when it all comes to pass, you were the guy that did that.
Marc:And they're not running up to you going like, dude, love for Cactus Jack.
Marc:It's like, Mick, what's up?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Thank you for your work.
Guest:Yes, they do.
Guest:And that's why I know Richard, that's essentially what I did to Richard Lewis.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And my kids will be with me and someone will approach me in the airport and say, I just want to thank you for everything you've done.
Guest:And then they'll walk away and my son will go, you like when they do that?
Guest:And I go, yeah, I do.
Guest:That's like a daymaker.
Guest:Do you ever go, which one?
Guest:Which one?
Guest:What part are you talking about?
Guest:Occasionally.
Guest:Yeah, let's make it specific.
Guest:Occasionally.
Guest:Because I was known for that, like I said, for that one match, the cell match.
Guest:Is that the one where you hurt yourself?
Guest:Yeah, that was the one where I was pretty badly hurt.
Guest:He fell through the cage?
Guest:Yeah, that was a tough one because we were in a situation where we're the show business sport, the fake sport, but we were also, at that time in 1998,
Guest:the only sport that continued when one of the participants was no longer conscious.
Guest:And that's changed.
Guest:With what we've learned about head injuries, if that were ever happen again, that match would be called right away.
Guest:Matches have been called due to injuries, and that's the right move and the correct move.
Guest:But if they'd called that match when I was unconscious, no one would have been talking about it for a month because it was really a struggle
Guest:to see how are they gonna finish this?
Guest:This guy is out.
Guest:So when people would come up and be like, that was the greatest match ever, I'd be like, that's like saying the Titanic was the greatest cruise ever.
Guest:Did you ever say like, I missed the most of it?
Guest:Oh yeah, that wasn't great for me.
Guest:It wasn't great for my wife.
Guest:My kids are crying.
Guest:Yeah, I remember calling home, I'd forgotten.
Guest:How old are your kids now?
Guest:About 22, 20, 13 and 11.
Guest:What are the older ones like doing?
Guest:You know, my son graduated college.
Guest:He's still trying to find the right job.
Guest:My daughter's kind of become like a personality.
Guest:Like on Twitter, you know, at Noel Foley, she's hosting a show for Ringside Collectibles.
Guest:Very effervescent.
Guest:And the biggest, this is like the nicest things on the nicest things anyone's ever said to me list is when I took three of my kids to SummerSlam in Los Angeles,
Guest:We went to Disneyland after the show for three or four days, and we flew my daughter's best friend out to be there.
Guest:At 19 years old, how much time are most 19-year-olds going to want to spend with their dad and two younger brothers?
Guest:None, right?
Guest:And we noticed that for three days, it was like, they would go out for a few hours and come back.
Guest:And I was like, no, you can leave for as long as you want.
Guest:She's like, Dad, I...
Guest:i really like hanging out with you like you know 19 i remember being in the rain offices in dc and i had my daughter with me and they said oh wow you know you know she was 20 at that time oh i can only imagine you know the headaches that she caused you i said no we've never had a crossword and they laughed i went no we've never had a crossword and then she came in she verified no she and i have never had a crossword that's sweet yeah and the wife's still on board oh yeah yeah she's still there she's still there
Guest:she allows me this santa thing you know it's like there's worse things that a 49 year old guy could be doing yeah you could be unconscious in a fucking cell match i think i need to show you that's why i was digging for the phone as you talk i will bring up the image there's a stunning stunning
Marc:Well, it's great to see you.
Marc:I mean, despite whatever I may not know about wrestling, we always seem to have a fairly rich conversation.
Guest:We do.
Guest:I think because when I met you, it was on the Air America show.
Guest:And at that time, I knew quite a bit.
Marc:Didn't we do a bit?
Marc:We did a lot of bits, yeah.
Marc:Didn't we do that one where we had Brendan play the conservative?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And he won this.
Marc:He was going to fight, wrestle me or something that we brought you in.
Guest:And we did that whole script on the air.
Guest:And then we cut the mics for years.
Guest:People thought it was real.
Guest:Yeah, we would get this mail sort of like, hey, look, you know, they have a right to talk to.
Guest:I don't agree with them, but I think what you did to that guy.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:and i remember like just how talented the writers were on the show you know when i came in and co-hosted for a week with you know i was like you know 5 a.m and here's the production meeting yeah just great this is a moment talk about great moments um i'm on stage with my friends uh norah jones has a project called puss in boots she sings with katherine popper and sasha dobson great great music
Guest:And I was their Santa for their Christmas show.
Guest:And they go to their final number and Nora Jones is singing Silent Night.
Guest:And just in the back of my head, there's this voice going, if you don't walk up there and start singing with her as Santa, you will never forgive yourself.
Guest:So here's the proof of that encounter.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:You did it.
Marc:You look so Santa-y.
Marc:Like I embody the spirit there.
Marc:So it's getting into character, you define the parameters of that character, and you just become it, and you feel that.
Marc:Sometimes, yeah, when it's really good.
Guest:And you know when you're on stage and you're feeling it, and there are other nights, Friday night, late show, and you're just working.
Guest:You're trying to get through it.
Guest:Trying to get through it.
Guest:So it's like anything else.
Guest:Some nights are better, some experiences are better than others, but it's
Guest:When it's really good, it feels like a Tori Amos hug.
Marc:Oh, well, I congratulate you on this new, less risky role, this new, less risky character.
Marc:I appreciate it, man.
Guest:It's great seeing you, man.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:And this is a big credibility boost to be on here.
Guest:Oh, you're great.
Guest:You're a good guy.
Guest:I love talking to you.
Guest:I appreciate your time.
Guest:Yeah, man.
Marc:All right, that's it.
Marc:That was it.
Marc:I love the man.
Marc:He's been there for us.
Marc:Mick goes back with me and Brendan to their America days.
Marc:We've done some on-mic wrestling shenanigans.
Marc:I think we might have played that for you guys once.
Marc:Go to WTFPod for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:I'm now going to play an out-of-tune Stratocaster for you.
Marc:Because I actually got a little feedback.
Marc:Said we missed your riffing.
Guest:So I'm going to riff.
Guest:Boomer lives!