Episode 573 - Jim Gaffigan
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What the fuckaholics?
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:I'm a little sick.
Marc:I know you can hear it in your head.
Marc:I apologize that you can hear my sick head in your head.
Marc:But that's just the way it is.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Marc:It's hard to tell what it is anymore.
Marc:Things have changed since I was a kid.
Marc:It's indecipherable what kind of virus you have.
Marc:Is it a cold?
Marc:Is it a flu?
Marc:Is it bronchitis?
Marc:Is it some weird combination?
Marc:Did the flu and the cold fuck each other?
Marc:And now we get this weird thing, this hybrid flu cold thing.
Marc:That's what I think it is.
Marc:Because I'm not immobilized like a flu, but I feel flu-y.
Marc:I have a little fever.
Marc:My head's all stuffed up.
Marc:My chest feels like someone was sitting on it all night.
Marc:I got a little of this.
Marc:Can you hear that down there?
Marc:Not that productive, but it's in there.
Marc:Something deep.
Marc:Got a demon in my lungs.
Marc:But I feel okay.
Marc:I feel better than I did.
Marc:Nothing worse than getting sick on a shoot, man.
Marc:Hey, before I start whining about my sickness.
Marc:Marination.
Marc:My spring tour.
Marc:Starts April 9th in Washington, D.C.
Marc:at the Warner Theater.
Marc:And then continues to Philadelphia, Boston, Madison, Wisconsin, Pittsburgh, Royal Oak, Michigan, Toronto, Houston, Dallas, Seattle, Vancouver, San Francisco, Asheville, North Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina, Atlanta, and New Orleans.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com and click on the calendar to get all the dates, venues, and links to buy tickets.
Marc:I'm touring.
Marc:I'm going out there.
Marc:And that'll be ongoing.
Marc:We'll see how it goes, folks.
Marc:We'll see how it goes.
Marc:I got the new hour.
Marc:I got the new stuff.
Marc:I got things I got to say.
Marc:I want to entertain.
Marc:I'm here.
Marc:I'm an entertainer.
Marc:Did a little reach out for some tour art, see what comes in.
Marc:I figure I can do poster art for every city, really, by different artists.
Marc:And then cut a deal with them.
Marc:Maybe make the posters available at the venue for the show that the poster represents.
Marc:That's my big plan.
Marc:That's my big merch plan.
Marc:I'm a businessman.
Marc:Today's Jim Gaffigan day.
Marc:Jim Gaffigan has been on WTF in a few different versions.
Marc:He was on a very early episode that we did in New York before I left New York with the show.
Marc:Before it was really an interview show.
Marc:It was him and his wife was in the room and she was talking as well.
Marc:She writes for him.
Marc:The two of them.
Marc:And then I did another one backstage somewhere where I interviewed, I think it was 80 Miles.
Marc:And then he did a small one.
Marc:I feel like he's been on the show a few times in one version or another, but this is the only full WTF interview.
Marc:So that's exciting.
Marc:Yeah, I don't know what I have, but it was really unnerving to do these, you know, to be shooting a show.
Marc:Because you want to have a good time.
Marc:You want to be in it.
Marc:You want to be acting.
Marc:You want to be, you know, available with full focus and energy.
Marc:And then, like, I'm being dragged down by this goddamn monster inside of me, this virus.
Marc:And I know maybe I'm a baby.
Marc:I guess I am.
Marc:But I was sick, man.
Marc:And as people who have to go to work know, like, there was no not going to work.
Marc:You know, we're shooting a show with my name on it.
Marc:I can't call in and be like, no, no, today's not good.
Marc:I don't feel good.
Marc:All right, let's just close down shop, take the hit for 100K.
Marc:And hopefully you'll feel good tomorrow, whatever it would cost.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:So on Thursday, I guess it was, they had a doctor come in when I started to feel like I was getting sick.
Marc:We had a set doctor come in.
Marc:And I said, I don't know what to tell you, man.
Marc:I just thought I should see somebody.
Marc:I don't know what to do.
Marc:Maybe I need antibiotics.
Marc:I'm not an antibiotic guy, but maybe give me some antibiotics.
Marc:She said, oh, give me.
Marc:I don't know if they'll do anything.
Marc:She goes, you know, I have the B12 shots.
Marc:I'm like, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She goes, yeah, a lot of people love him.
Marc:They swear by him.
Marc:Like, I never had a B12 shot.
Marc:I don't know what it means.
Marc:Isn't that the thing that, you know, like Belushi used to do after, you know, a five-day coke bender and schvitzing down at the 9th Street baths?
Marc:Do a B12 shot?
Marc:Isn't that the remedy for hard living?
Marc:She said, I don't know.
Marc:I got one if you want one.
Marc:So I did it.
Marc:I got a B12 shot, and I think for about an hour I felt very lively.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It was hard to tell.
Marc:Maybe it helped.
Marc:Maybe it didn't.
Marc:But I will tell you this.
Marc:I got to work with Lucy Davis, who was playing my manager in a couple episodes this year.
Marc:You might know her.
Marc:She was on The Original Office with Ricky Gervais, and it was a real honor and a blast to do comedic scenes with her.
Marc:Another kind of weird highlight for me, and this is kind of a bizarre one,
Marc:is we do casting and people come into reefer parts.
Marc:And there was a part on another episode for a doctor.
Marc:And I looked at the castings.
Marc:I looked at the actors who read.
Marc:I see them all from the casting agent.
Marc:And Gregory White was one of the guys who read for the doctor part.
Marc:Now, Gregory White was that guy in that McDonald's commercial, that old guy that a lot of people thought looked like me.
Marc:I used to get busted all the time.
Marc:My balls busted constantly because that guy looked like an old version of me.
Marc:It was a McNuggets commercial, I think.
Marc:Either you know it or you don't.
Marc:But this is the guy that was in that commercial who looks like me and I do and will cop to the fact that he looks like me.
Marc:And I couldn't help myself.
Marc:I'm like, God, I got to hire that guy.
Marc:We got to have that guy.
Marc:And it was hilarious.
Marc:He was hilarious.
Marc:We did a great scene.
Marc:And it was very exciting for me in this weird way.
Marc:But so shooting, like, I'm glad I feel a little better.
Marc:I'm a little less concerned.
Marc:You know, it's weird when he gets sick, you get angry.
Marc:And like God, like, you know, I know people deal with chronic illness and like, it's just, it's horrifying.
Marc:You know, you just feel immobilized.
Marc:And I was just hoping I'd feel a little better by today.
Marc:And I do.
Marc:I just want my voice back.
Marc:So we don't have inconsistencies.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:Because, you know, you shoot out of sequence.
Marc:So, like, hey, how come in that last scene Mark didn't sound sinus-y?
Marc:Did you just get a horrible cold driving to the store?
Marc:So, hey, hopefully nobody will notice, if you know what I'm saying.
Marc:I did another funny scene with Amanda Booth, an actress and model person.
Marc:She was great.
Marc:Funny scene.
Marc:Oh my God, being sick, all I wanted to do was eat peanut butter on toast.
Marc:Peanut butter and honey on toast.
Marc:I don't know where that comes from, but I just gave myself license.
Marc:I must have eaten that fucking full jar of peanut butter and a half a loaf of bread on toast because that's all I wanted to eat when I was sick.
Marc:Is that good?
Marc:Is it starve a cold, punch a fever in the face?
Marc:Starve a cold, feed a fever?
Marc:I don't know, man.
Marc:I woke up with a fever and I plowed through.
Marc:Ate a bunch of peanut butter and toast.
Marc:Had some juice.
Marc:Took a bunch of vitamins.
Marc:Took some antibiotics.
Marc:Doing all I can.
Marc:Had some fever dreams.
Marc:Those are really the best.
Marc:Those are really the best.
Marc:As a sober person, you know, I don't get to enjoy mild hallucinogenic fun.
Marc:So when the fever dreams came...
Marc:One of them was pretty compelling.
Marc:The other one was bizarre.
Marc:One, I was on an island or something, and I had to be somewhere else.
Marc:But I had taken a boat to the island, and I had parked the boat.
Marc:And I was going to fly off the island, but I knew that I'd taken the boat there.
Marc:And I didn't really know what to do about the boat.
Marc:And I didn't know how I was going to get back.
Marc:I don't know if I could leave the boat where it was supposed to be left.
Marc:But I was...
Marc:really in a conundrum is really difficult situation like i think i might have to take this boat all the way back to the mainland because i did rent it and bring it out here i can't just leave the boat here with nobody knowing whose boat it is that was the big problem i don't know how that resolved itself not a very compelling fever dream not as compelling as the dream i had that my brain
Marc:was reprogramming itself i had this weird dream that my brain was kind of either rebooting or reprogramming itself and it was beginning with every with images of every architectural structure i'd ever been in so it's just like this flash of structures and buildings just like picture after picture of buildings after building it was like a mutoscope you remember those uh i don't know if you had when they were a nickelodeon arcade thing i
Marc:Benny Levine used to have one in a shoe store in Pompton Lakes when I was a little kid where you roll this, you kind of crank this thing on the side and it kind of flips pictures over so it looks like moving like a predecessor to the film projector.
Marc:But it was like that.
Marc:Only all the pictures were different and didn't work in a sequence and they were just folding into my brain matter.
Marc:Fuck, man.
Marc:I wonder if that really happened.
Marc:I wonder if that during that fever, my brain kind of, maybe my hypothalamus just did a reboot because of the heat.
Marc:Don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm tired of worrying about it.
Marc:Hey, you know what?
Marc:Let's talk to Jim Gaffigan.
Marc:So you have kids, so you have to make time to do things that you might have missed or gotten away from?
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Like the superhero thing, I never... So are you just getting into superheroes?
Guest:I never got into it.
Guest:I don't believe in heroes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's a very profound statement there.
Guest:there are no such things as heroes no but my kids you know spider-man we have five or six spider-man outfits yeah and and then we have some for the kids well i get it but i mean but it's not but are you finding you're like enjoying the stories like you like how what why how did i miss this and yeah i think somehow i how did i miss this
Guest:Well, what were you doing, Jim?
Guest:I was the youngest of six, so I think I was... Well, there must have been a lot of shit around and left over to go through.
Guest:No, I think there wasn't.
Guest:I think there was... I mean, you know, Star Wars.
Guest:I saw Star Wars in the movie theater.
Guest:I was like, eh, sorry.
Guest:Yeah, but...
Guest:And my kids, you know, we own it, so they watch it.
Guest:Regularly?
Guest:Once a week.
Guest:I've been Darth Vader for three years for Halloween.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I was Darth Vader at my son's, he's eight now at his fourth birthday party, and I did a lightsaber thing with him.
Guest:And I won.
Guest:Well, good.
Marc:Well, you got to get it where you can, Jim.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But so your brothers, what was the breakdown of the siblings?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The siblings?
Guest:Years.
Guest:Four boys and two girls, and I'm the youngest of six.
Marc:There wasn't like a stack of records and a bunch of comic books?
Guest:There were records, but there was not comic books, not a thing.
Guest:They didn't like it.
Guest:How old's your oldest brother?
Guest:The oldest in my family is my sister, Kathy, and she's, I don't know.
Guest:She could be like 100, and I wouldn't know.
Guest:And then my brother, Mike, is, I don't know, 50s?
Guest:Yeah, somewhere in there.
Guest:It's all a blur, you know?
Guest:It's like, who cares?
Guest:Well, you kind of know.
Guest:I mean, I kind of know that there's six kids over seven or eight years.
Guest:They're just old.
Guest:Now they're old.
Guest:They're older than me.
Marc:Yeah, but how old were you when you saw them all leave, I imagine?
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:I always wonder about that.
Marc:Was that difficult?
Guest:Do you remember?
Guest:Yeah, it was a little bit.
Guest:You're leaving me here with these people that are crazy.
Guest:Your parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, there's a little bit of, you know, the enthusiasm wanes, right?
Guest:Oh, you're still here.
Guest:Yeah, I'm still here.
Guest:So there was some of that.
Guest:But there was also – and, you know, when I started off, there's such an amount of distrust that develops in parents of that generation, right?
Marc:How old were they?
Marc:How old are they?
Marc:Are they around anymore?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Neither one of them.
Guest:Thanks for bringing it up.
Guest:Well, it's talk.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:No, so they, you know, so they were not –
Guest:uh they were baby i don't know what they were not helicopter parenting it was kind of you know seinfeld has the joke it's like i'll see you at dinner yeah i mean so there were that kind of parents right but they were but they had been lied to by so many teenagers by the time i got there they were just like you're guilty and i was like i didn't do anything wrong and they're like just go to your room and you're like all right
Guest:so they were jaded so the paranoia yeah you know which i think is pretty important for comedians this you know it's a you know you can describe it as paranoia or point of view or suspicion i think i i learned that from my parents how they're parenting how they parented you feel like you feel like you're paranoid
Marc:I think there's a little bit.
Marc:I guess so.
Marc:Well, it's a type of defensiveness or a type of self-protecting.
Marc:Like, you must be up to something.
Guest:Yeah, I remember.
Guest:You know, when you do, like, I think 100 years ago, I was meeting with people that were writers for a TV show.
Guest:And they're like, well, you know, we'll capture some of your paranoia.
Guest:And I'm like, paranoia?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, but the guy cited this joke I had about Mexican food.
Guest:He was like, well, that's kind of a paranoid, because I have this thing that, you know, seven entrees, seven names just for the same type of food.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he's like, that's a very paranoid perspective of things.
Marc:And I'm like, all right, maybe it is.
Marc:I don't think that it is.
Marc:I think it's a simplification.
Yeah.
Marc:Maybe.
Guest:I think that, you know... That's kind of paranoid of you to think that.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:No, I don't.
Marc:But, okay, so why so many kids on your parents' part?
Marc:Were they just Catholic?
Marc:No, they wanted Jews to feel uncomfortable.
Guest:That's why they did it.
Guest:No, that was very common.
Guest:People would have a lot of kids.
Guest:Six?
Guest:Six people.
Guest:We lived across from a family that had 13, and the mom would collect all the milk jugs
Guest:In the garage with all the newspapers.
Guest:She was crazy.
Guest:So that's not common.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Well, no.
Guest:But large families were pretty common.
Guest:13?
Guest:13.
Guest:I think there's somebody who had... Somebody.
Guest:Now it's one person.
Guest:Somebody in the Old Testament who had... Hundreds.
Guest:Hundreds.
Guest:But 13.
Guest:Like my wife's one of nine.
Guest:But where'd she grow up?
Guest:Milwaukee.
Guest:And you grew up where?
Guest:In Indiana.
Guest:But there's also a lot of benefits from a larger family.
Guest:There's communal clothes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, there is something in socialization.
Guest:I feel like that.
Marc:No, I think that's true because you're literally growing up in your own neighborhood.
Guest:But what is... It's a neighborhood in your house.
Guest:Let me ask you this.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Why is there anything wrong with someone having a large family?
Guest:There's nothing.
Guest:Nothing's wrong with it.
Guest:There is nothing wrong with it.
Guest:No, but I've had people secretly say it.
Guest:They're like, I think it's so cool, but aren't you worried about like...
Guest:It's like they're not like dogs that are going to run in the street.
Guest:They're human beings.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they listen to you eventually.
Guest:So they eventually, you know, some of it's nature and nurture, but some of it is they're going to be how they're going to be.
Guest:It's like.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, if they're raised with caring parents, that's all that really matters.
Marc:No, I don't think I have.
Marc:I don't have kids.
Marc:So, like, you know, you're asking the wrong guy.
Marc:But I think that most people just react with sort of like, wow, that seems like a lot of not you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like, how can you be that selfless?
Marc:You know, how can you?
Marc:Like, I think most people are fundamentally selfish.
Marc:And the idea of six kids, it just overwhelms the modern brain.
Guest:They're like, how do you have time to do anything?
Guest:I think we've been culturally told that it's weird.
Guest:I think that people have been told that, like, by the way, when you think about it, if someone says, I have six cats, you think they're crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But what if someone really enjoys six cats and their apartment isn't covered with cat turds?
Guest:That's a long shot.
Guest:I mean, that's a rare thing you're talking about.
Guest:Maybe that's not good reason.
Guest:What if they have six cats with one leg missing on each of the cats?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, no, what I'm saying is that with six kids, you're going to have shit all over the house.
Marc:There's not going to be any stopping it.
Guest:My wife is pretty thorough.
Guest:Our house is really clean.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's not toys all over the place?
Guest:No.
Guest:Would there be?
Guest:Look, I'm a slob.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she's got to clean up after you, too?
Guest:My apartment.
Guest:Like, if you saw my apartment when I was single.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, my brothers and sisters would come over to my apartment.
Marc:You still live in an apartment in New York?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's big.
Guest:Now, you must have a big six-bedroom.
Guest:We moved.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But my siblings used to want to come to my apartment so they could laugh at it.
Guest:They'd be like, you've got to see Jimmy's apartment.
Guest:Because I had the tub in the kitchen.
Guest:It was a tenement stop, right?
Guest:They're like, there's a window for no reason in the middle of the apartment.
Guest:And I'm like, well, there used to be different families living here.
Guest:But to someone that lives in the suburbs, it's just insane.
Guest:Insanity.
Guest:Well, did you grow up in a rural environment?
Guest:It wasn't rural, but in high school, I definitely went to a couple of parties where I sat on a haystack.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or a couple of parties where I was in a trailer park drinking a beer.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But then again, I was also, you know, there were, you know, Chicago was 45 minutes away.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And so there was, you know, it was pretty nice existence.
Marc:No, yeah.
Marc:I mean, I grew up in New Mexico.
Marc:We've taken drives out to weird places to sit and drink on rocks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I could romanticize it and make it sound like, you know, and then I was eating one summer, I ate only hay, you know?
Marc:But it really was- Wouldn't that be romantic?
Guest:It was essentially, you know, a suburban existence.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And what'd your dad do?
Guest:My dad was a banker.
Guest:He was a banker.
Guest:A banker.
Marc:At a local bank?
Marc:Did he have his own bank?
Guest:A commercial bank.
Guest:It was a local bank in Northwest Indiana.
Guest:And your mom was watching children?
Guest:Was watching children and...
Guest:No side projects.
Guest:Meals on wheels.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Stuff like that.
Guest:Needle pointing awards.
Marc:So, I mean, that's the other thing about six kids is that it's like if your dad seemed like he made a nice middle class living, so there was never that panic.
Marc:Right.
Guest:No, and there's something about I make a decent living, so as long as I can afford a decent cheeseburger, I'm all right.
Guest:It's not like I need a boat.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That's how I always describe it.
Guest:I'm like, oh, I can't get my boat.
Guest:You mean the sacrifices you have to make for having kids?
Guest:They're minimal.
Guest:It's like, so I'm going to be bald a year earlier.
Marc:You know, it's like, oh.
Marc:Well, what you're saying is that you'll do whatever is necessary for the kids and you love the kids.
Guest:And what I get from these kids is immeasurable.
Guest:And I know it sounds like a rationalization.
Guest:It does.
Guest:But it's amazing.
Marc:What is this voice in your head that has decided that people are against big families and that somehow saying that you get a lot out of your kids?
Guest:Because they are.
Guest:Because they are.
Guest:They're all against big families.
Guest:They're all out to get me.
Marc:You are paranoid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:It goes right back to the beginning.
Marc:Yeah, but that's a voice in your head.
Marc:That's not paranoia.
Marc:That's a self-judgment thing.
Marc:oh really i'm getting reprimanded for being paranoid by mark yes you are because no because i've learned things about it what it is is there's part of your brain that go and it's and i think you vocalize that in your act that's sort of the that weird id voice you do is that one that's sort of checking you all the time there's a a party that's sort of like i don't know should i you know maybe it's uh maybe we want to have self-awareness right
Marc:Right, yeah, but self-awareness is, and I think that that is part of it, but that voice is not always smart.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Do you know what I mean?
Marc:That voice is sort of some manifestation of fear.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right?
Marc:So when you were young, you were brought up, how Catholic was it?
Guest:I was mostly cultural Catholic.
Guest:It was kind of like, hey, you're- Right, right.
Guest:You know, we go to church-
Guest:Did you go every Sunday?
Marc:Oh, intermittently.
Marc:I think Jews and Catholics have it better like that.
Marc:Like regular Christians or people that come to Christianity later, like these really old religions like Catholicism and Judaism, the lapsing was okay.
Marc:You could be socially Catholic.
Guest:That's when all this stuff happened with the radical Islam.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:People did describe it, that it's the newer of the three.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:It's like, we don't... It's like, look, we got to give them a couple hundred years, and then they'll be drinking with the rest of us.
Guest:And ordering extra cheesecake.
Marc:That might be a long, destructive wait.
Marc:So, okay, but your older brothers, what did they end up doing?
Marc:What was your influences when you were younger?
Marc:I mean, did you look up to those guys?
Guest:Yeah, I was... You know, I think... You know, my older brothers... You know, my older brother, Mike, kind of rebelled.
Guest:My father...
Guest:was the first in his family to, after many generations being in this country, to go to college.
Guest:So success was wearing a coat and tie.
Guest:And so my brother Mike kind of rebelled against that, and he was like, I'm getting a pickup truck, and I'm not wearing that.
Guest:But all my sisters and my brothers, very much coat and tie kind of jobs.
Guest:So when I announced that I wanted to
Guest:be in the entertainment industry or be a comedian.
Guest:They just thought it was cute.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He'll get over that.
Guest:Isn't that adorable?
Guest:Yeah, he'll get past it.
Guest:Because, you know, back when I started, it was not, you know, it was not as, you know, adorable or GQ article as it is today.
Marc:No, I remember when you started.
Marc:I remember you.
Marc:You had more hair.
Marc:It seemed whiter even.
Guest:Yeah, it's actually getting...
Guest:Maybe the gray is better.
Guest:The gray are... I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I feel judged.
Guest:I feel good.
Guest:Yeah, no, you are judged.
Marc:I'm not judging you.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I judged you in a positive... Do you have to have your hand on my thigh while we do this?
Marc:Yes, I'm trying to comfort you.
Marc:All right.
Marc:But you didn't... It wasn't always comedy.
Marc:I mean, it seemed like when you were younger that there was another agenda.
Marc:I remember we talked a bit a long time ago, but I think you might have been the enemy at some point, right?
Yeah.
Guest:The enemy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Working in advertising?
Marc:No, I mean, before that, jockey, fratty.
Guest:Jockey, fratty?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You think the enemy?
Guest:Jesus Christ.
Guest:This is such bullshit.
Guest:The enemy.
Guest:The enemy.
Guest:Can I just point something out?
Guest:It's like, you exist in these mythological kind of constraints that don't exist.
Guest:You're like, we're doing a show in Irvine.
Guest:You're like, you know what?
Guest:Out there, it's all... These people... I'm like, Mark, it doesn't... It's not like... They're not voting for gay marriage right now.
Guest:These...
Guest:These are the people that could afford a $90 ticket to see Louis C.K.
Marc:I wanted to make it more complicated than that.
Guest:Was I a frat guy?
Guest:I was in a fraternity for a year, but I never did the final pledge.
Guest:But that was...
Guest:my freshman year in college, but I don't think that I was... In high school, who were you?
Guest:No, I don't get the feeling that you were a bully in any way.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:I was definitely... I mean, look, I'm a comedian because I was kind of tortured because I was so pale and odd when I moved.
Guest:People thought you were an albino?
Guest:Yeah, there was some of that.
Guest:And, you know, like...
Guest:So I was definitely the outcast.
Guest:Why are you so fair?
Guest:Because I'm cool.
Guest:That's how God made me.
Guest:No, I know that.
Guest:I'm not judging you.
Guest:Why am I so pale?
Guest:Do you have Scandinavian in you?
Guest:No, I think it's Irish.
Guest:Pale Irish?
Guest:I've heard of black Irish.
Guest:I didn't know there was a white Irish.
Guest:Well, you know, all the blonde hair in Ireland, blonde and red hair, it's just the Vikings coming down.
Guest:Yeah, I can see you having some Viking in you.
Guest:you know it's that shows you i think that's interesting you know historically it's just adore like the vikings are adorable yeah they're like yeah you know the vikings you know that's kind of interesting they had horns in there i don't know they were they were raping and pillaging yeah menacing they i always thought of them as the vikings were like menacing but you know we don't look at people in sweden go hey we got to watch them they used to be vikings right but you know the other
Marc:countries were kind of like we got to keep an eye on these well maybe it's a little before and it didn't get as much press and it kind of got mythologized and romanticized the vikings did you know a lot of boats and yeah the big boats wooden boats wooden boats yeah and horns and horns yeah all right so but were you the were you the funny guy or you weren't the funny guy
Guest:I was the funny guy, I would say.
Guest:I was funniest.
Guest:But I went to a rare high school.
Guest:I went to a high school where there were 25 people in my graduating class.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The private school?
Guest:Private school.
Marc:I went to one of those briefly.
Marc:They threw me out.
Marc:There was only like 35 graduating seniors.
Marc:It's a little weird, right?
Marc:It's very weird.
Marc:And you played team sports?
Marc:How many people were on the team?
Marc:Everyone who tried out got on?
Guest:Everyone that tried out got on.
Guest:But we were good.
Guest:We were good at things.
Guest:In wrestling, I beat the guy that was third in state.
Guest:And I played football at Georgetown.
Guest:But I wasn't a great athlete.
Guest:But I would say that my high school...
Marc:was very much it didn't fit the john hughes right stereotypes of you know uh the those different kind of characters yeah it was more like everyone was everything right oh right so you didn't have clicks because it was so small and you all kind of knew each other yeah it was hard to have a click a click would be what two guys yeah it was just it was not and then by the end of the day they're like oh they showed the record there wasn't two to everybody well it's okay
Guest:Yeah, so it didn't really hold up.
Guest:I hear my wife talk about the click thing, and it sounds terrifying.
Guest:Jeannie, right?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Your wife, she was involved in the last one.
Guest:Yes, she was.
Guest:You were flirting with her during the last one.
Guest:She does it to me.
Guest:Oh, she does do it, huh?
Guest:You don't have a reputation for flirting at all, either.
Guest:You're going to tell me that your wife isn't kooky?
Marc:My wife is very cookie.
Marc:I wouldn't be with a boring woman.
Marc:You're going to tell me that I might not misinterpret that as flirting?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I thought it was very sociable.
Marc:I didn't think there was... Did you feel menacing?
Guest:You felt menace from me?
Guest:No.
Guest:I just... Look, we all have friends that we're like, all right, I got to keep an eye on this guy.
Guest:And you're one of them.
Guest:Me?
Guest:I'm the guy.
Guest:You're evil.
Guest:Did you just fart?
Guest:It smells like shit in there.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah, you did.
Marc:Is it the cat?
Marc:No, there's a... I don't know why it happens, but at certain times of night, it smells like raw sewage back here.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And maybe it's because you're letting gas out of your ass.
Marc:I'm not letting gas out of my ass.
Marc:I'm telling you.
Marc:I thought it was my pipe, so we didn't flush the toilet or nothing.
Marc:There's something that happens, and I asked the guy, and he said that all... If you live up on a hill...
Marc:He said that whoever's in the canyon below there, that there's vents that go up through a house from the sewage.
Marc:But I've never smelled it.
Marc:Good God.
Marc:It's like, did Fat Bastard take a third or what?
Marc:I've never smelled it this bad.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I don't know what's going on.
Marc:This is why I don't do interviews at this time of night.
Marc:I'm evil.
Marc:How am I evil?
Marc:You're not evil.
Marc:You're just bad.
Marc:No.
Marc:Look, I think that you've struggled.
Marc:Yeah, I've definitely struggled.
Marc:I don't think you're any goddamn saint.
Marc:I'm most certainly not.
Marc:You're maybe not bad in the same way I am.
Guest:We all have our demons.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We all have our demons.
Marc:I know that.
Marc:All right, so you're wrestling.
Marc:You're playing football.
Marc:There are no cliques in your high school.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You're at a private school.
Marc:You get good grades.
Guest:But I didn't get in any college, so I went to Purdue.
Guest:And this is such a suburban struggle.
Guest:It was like I didn't get in the college I wanted.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Were your parents disappointed?
Guest:What about your brothers and sisters?
Guest:My parents went to Georgetown University.
Guest:They had a dog named Hoya, and I didn't get in.
Guest:My brother, my Irish twin, who was like 20 months older than me, was in Georgetown, and I didn't get in.
Marc:Why didn't you get in?
Marc:Why wouldn't they let you in?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think I'm dumb.
Guest:But I transferred in.
Marc:After a year at Purdue?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now, Georgetown, that's a good school.
Marc:It is a good school.
Marc:Where is that, in D.C.?
Guest:Yeah, it's a much better school now than it was then.
Marc:And you went all the way through?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Finished it up?
Marc:Graduated.
Marc:You played football at Georgetown?
Yeah.
Guest:For a year.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I quit.
Guest:Was it too much?
Guest:You know, it's just depressing when you'd see people going to parties and you'd be like going to practice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, so it was a practical thing.
Guest:Social.
Marc:Cut into your social life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You could be drinking.
Guest:I would have nightmares.
Guest:I'm like, I gotta go to practice tomorrow.
Guest:And I woke up and I quit.
Guest:And I remember the guy who...
Guest:I had to tell these coaches, and this one coach was like, you're going to quit everything.
Guest:You're going to quit your life.
Guest:You're going to quit your wife.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't care.
Guest:I'm still quitting.
Guest:He was eating like a big sandwich at the time.
Guest:He was like a monster.
Guest:He was trying to intimidate you and disdain.
Guest:Yeah, but I think that was one of those moments.
Guest:Did you immediately know you wanted to do comedy and you're like, all right, I'm going to... Because it was much more of an insane pursuit.
Marc:Something about it, for me, was weird because...
Marc:You know, I did a little in college, and, you know, after my sophomore year, I did open mics, and I was trying to do it, and I just couldn't hack it.
Marc:I had done a little bit with another guy, a team thing, and I always had the bug.
Marc:That man was Bruce Falanch, right?
Marc:Yes, it was.
Marc:No, Steve Brill.
Marc:And...
Marc:But I couldn't hack it on my own at first.
Marc:I was drinking a lot that summer, and I was waiting around doing open mics, and it was brutal because they only had them at the clubs.
Guest:And this was in New Mexico?
Marc:In Boston.
Marc:Boston.
Marc:Because I went to BU.
Marc:And then I kind of put it on hold until I graduated.
Marc:But right when I got out of college...
Marc:I went home for three months and I went and got a job at the comedy store.
Marc:I mean, I didn't think of it as unreasonable.
Marc:I was never taught any sort of sense of value or values growing up.
Marc:I was not moving towards a job.
Marc:I didn't think in terms of a job.
Marc:I always thought in terms of creative pursuits.
Marc:When I was in college, I did photography.
Marc:I wrote plays.
Marc:I wrote for the paper.
Marc:I never ever thought about anything practical.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It was not the way I was brought up.
Marc:Were you brought up that way?
Guest:I was brought up very much.
Guest:To seek security.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That security was a coat and tie.
Guest:Would have loved to have had more of that.
Marc:I was a wild, insecure animal that was released with no sense of responsibility.
Marc:But isn't your dad a doctor or something like that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Which means what?
Marc:Never home.
Marc:Was not that engaged in the upbringing process.
Marc:occasionally came around to sort of establish power and threaten and make me feel weird.
Guest:But that's all dads of that era.
Guest:My dad would come home and I'd be like, who is that guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're like, hi.
Guest:That's some of my initial acting was acting excited to see this stranger.
Yeah.
Marc:Well, I liked my dad.
Marc:He was a charismatic guy and a little nutty.
Marc:But when I look back on it, but you said your mother must have been some stabilizing, loving force.
Marc:Yes, very much so.
Guest:And I think that she and humor was a very important thing.
Guest:Making her laugh was an important thing among the siblings and
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because she was like, you knew that you were wearing her out?
Guest:Well, I think it was just, it was a difficult task.
Guest:So humor was something you give someone that it was, you know, it didn't cost anything.
Guest:And also doing an impression of my dad for my siblings was an important thing.
Marc:element where they're like all right maybe we'll we won't beat him or take his food i was at that time i was not a competitor for food yeah right right you know yeah you're the funny guy yeah you've took some uh took some steam really some steam yes all right so but you go to school and you go for what i studied finance
Guest:Did you really study it, or were you just kind of biding your time?
Guest:I was biding my time.
Guest:But I was, yeah, all my siblings who had gone before me had studied, like, international terrorism.
Guest:Before there was terrorism, by the way.
Guest:This was, like, Bass Separatists that my brother Mike studied.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They graduated, and they couldn't find jobs.
Guest:So my dad was very much with me and my older brother, who's right above me.
Guest:He was like, you guys should study finance or accounting, and strongly encouraged it.
Guest:I was told that if you do that, then you'll be happy, and you'll get a good job, and then you'll...
Guest:enjoy that job, and then you'll play golf for five years, and you'll die.
Guest:And so it's... That was how you laid it out?
Guest:I did that.
Guest:I remember the night before I graduated from college, I was saying to a friend of mine, I was like, gosh, you know, because we all had jobs, and I was like, gosh, you know, all I really want to do is be a comedian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I'm like, I'm sure everyone wants to do that.
Guest:And she was like, no, not everyone wants to do that.
Guest:I'm like, everyone wants to do that.
Guest:And she looked at me like, nobody wants to do that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so...
Guest:What inspired you to do that?
Marc:When was this?
Marc:While you were in college?
Marc:This is the night before I graduated.
Marc:But how did you get your mind into comedy?
Marc:Who had you seen?
Guest:Because I had worked as a doorman at a place called the Comedy Stop in Washington, D.C.
Marc:So that was just a job you sought out?
Guest:It was right near my apartment.
Guest:And they were looking for somebody or you went to look for it?
Guest:Me and my roommates all were doormen there where we would seat people.
Guest:Because you loved comedy or just because that was a gig?
Guest:No, it was just a gig.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:But I had also hosted a talent show, which was called Cabaret, with a friend of mine my senior year, which was a...
Guest:It was a talent show, but it was a big deal where everyone would dress in tuxes, and I hosted that, and that was very rewarding, even though I did it.
Guest:When I did it, I was just completely drunk the entire time.
Guest:Did you do bits?
Guest:Yeah, I did bits.
Guest:Kind of school-specific.
Marc:So you had not done any stand-up yet?
Marc:No.
Marc:Okay, this was like, right, you were the funny guy, and you-
Guest:I was the guy that people would... There was a guy who actually ended up being an agent at ICM, and he used to get me stoned just so that I would be funny for him.
Guest:He'd be like, let's get Gaffigan stoned.
Guest:And so then he would get me high, and then I would just kind of start rambling.
Marc:Getting a dog or a cat high.
Guest:It's like when you give a dog some hot salsa, see how it reacts.
Guest:Have you ever done that?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:it's pretty amazing what does he do oh it's you know because the dog you know they freak out they freak out but they don't they can't figure out what it is right that's they're like you don't you don't torture the dog but it's just like this is very strange yeah they start hitting their nose like wait so you torture the dog and then they go back and they eat more yeah
Marc:So you're working the door at that place and you're seeing who?
Marc:Is that where you start to get the bug, kind of?
Guest:I don't think that gave me the bug.
Guest:I think that demystified it a little bit for me.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, oh, you saw it as a job that could be done.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where I saw...
Guest:pat paulson yeah running for president yes uh-huh um again yes uh so you know different comedians i think it was maybe a six month job did no one made an impact on you really i mean i have a horrible memory
Marc:Yeah, but you would know, like, if you're like, that guy's good.
Marc:Yeah, there were people that were good.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He probably still... He probably worked with them now.
Guest:Yeah, I'm sure that, you know, Bobby Collins probably went through there.
Guest:Bobby Collins?
Guest:You know, or Richard Jenny.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:There was...
Guest:But it was... It's interesting, though.
Guest:You don't have specific memories of a comic.
Guest:I don't.
Guest:I just have a general memory of like, you know, I could do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, but of course I didn't do it.
Marc:Well, no, but you were still in school.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But obviously, did you find them entertaining or were you just sitting there going like... Some of them.
Marc:A lot of them, no.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So you're like, I can't believe this guy.
Marc:A lot of them, no.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:Believe me, I know.
Marc:I'm not going to know that.
Guest:uh you know why are they laughing yeah why are they laughing or um and and some of it was just i just saw confidence on the stage right and um uh so i was yeah i was pretty impressed by their confidence right so you all right so you graduate yeah and you want to do comedy at that point but what do you end up doing i'm a consultant and i uh go to tampa and then i how long were you in tampa
Guest:For a year.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:And I'm a pale guy who doesn't like the outdoors.
Guest:And I remember I went there and one of the first... I used to always tell people this.
Guest:I was at a bar and I was talking to somebody about politics and some guy said...
Guest:I said, well, why aren't you going to watch, why aren't you going to vote for Dukakis?
Guest:This shows you how old I am.
Guest:And the guy goes, because he's going to let everyone out of jail.
Guest:And he said it without any irony.
Guest:And I was like, you know that's not true.
Guest:And he was like, well.
Guest:And I was like, oh, all right.
Guest:So, you know, but there's nothing wrong with Tampa.
Guest:It's just not right for me.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And so then.
Marc:Yeah, it's kind of the Wild West down there, man.
Guest:You know, it's an interesting place.
Guest:And so then I went to New York and got an advertising job.
Guest:But I remember having, like I wrote a Miami Vice episode when I was in Tampa because I wanted to get into entertainment.
Guest:And I remember having a little microcassette recorder where I would record ideas.
Guest:But I remember saying, if I don't find out what I'm going to do,
Guest:I'm ending this because I had done everything that, you know, culturally I was supposed to do.
Guest:Not culturally, but.
Guest:So your dad wanted you to do it.
Guest:I had studied hard.
Guest:I had gone to college.
Guest:I had studied the security thing.
Guest:I had gotten the job that was decent money and I was miserable and I sucked at it.
Guest:So at that point, I was like, you know, I just don't know what I'm going to do.
Guest:And so when I got to New York, I worked in advertising and did an improv class because of fear of stage fright.
Guest:Where?
Guest:At the National Improvisational Theater.
Guest:Which was... It was pre-UCB.
Guest:Way pre-UCB.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I don't even remember that place.
Guest:And this was all run by Scientologists.
Guest:Did you know that going in?
Guest:You know, they were very nice about it.
Guest:They didn't really push it that much.
Guest:Why were they running an improv class?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Looking for vulnerable people?
Guest:No, I think they were just artists that ended up...
Guest:It's like there's tons of actors that are Scientologists.
Guest:I get it, but there's got to be a... Okay.
Guest:How did you find that out?
Guest:Because my mother died while I was doing improv, and they're like, you should take a class.
Guest:And I was like, all right, so I took a class.
Guest:For grief?
Guest:I think it was... Look, when you lose someone, you don't know where you're going.
Guest:And that's when they said it?
Guest:Well, look, I don't want to present it as malicious.
Guest:That's what made them happy.
Marc:I'm not saying it's malicious.
Marc:You don't have to be diplomatic.
Marc:I'm just saying that they saw you were vulnerable.
Marc:You were upset.
Marc:You were hurt.
Marc:And they were like, maybe you should take a class.
Marc:Maybe this would help you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then when I was doing improv, this guy that was doing the improv classes with me, uh, dared me to do standup.
Guest:And I, you know, that's what I needed.
Guest:I needed someone to say, come on, let's do this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, um, I did this, uh, uh, standup workshop thing and, uh, did it that night.
Guest:And, uh, you remember where that was, that was at 55 Grove.
Guest:But I think at that time it was called the duplex, uh,
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:They had shows there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And they had a picture of Woody Allen up there and Joan Rivers.
Marc:I think it was... It was kind of a gay club, right?
Marc:Later on, it became sort of a burlesque sort of... It was like a piano bar.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:It was definitely a piano bar, but it was... I think they had an upstairs, right?
Guest:Yeah, it was upstairs.
Guest:It was the showroom.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I've done a show there.
Guest:So I remember it was the first time I did it, and it was amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was amazing.
Guest:You were like, thank God I'm here.
Guest:I was like, I finally found out what I want to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I bombed for the next four years.
Guest:No.
Guest:Not completely, but I definitely...
Guest:I feel like it takes me longer to figure things out.
Guest:But, yeah, there was no spots to be had in the city.
Marc:I remember when... What year was that?
Marc:Because I remember when you started, and I remember when I started to see you, you were kind of like... I remember you sort of tucked your shirt in a lot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were kind of heavy, and your hair was bushier.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were a little sweaty, and you always seemed kind of miserable.
Guest:Yeah, no, I was very miserable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:very miserable well you know i always describe it because you know i started with giraldo yeah and giraldo and i met he was also chubby and sweaty and we were both wearing suits yeah he was a lawyer and i was an advertising guy switched to copywriting but um that's a little creative isn't it it was it was a little creative i mean a little yeah but did you ever nail any campaigns
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I worked on some campaigns, but there's something about stand-up comedy where we're spoiled by the lack of hierarchy and bureaucracy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Where, you know, in advertising, there's a lot of it.
Guest:There's so many good comedians.
Guest:Like, when I started, here's how I knew it.
Marc:What year was it again?
Guest:89, maybe 91?
Guest:92?
Mm-hmm.
Guest:And the way I viewed it, there was me and Geraldo and Judah.
Guest:And then the new group, which was Atel, you, Todd Berry, Louie, Jeff Ross.
Guest:Just a couple years ahead.
Guest:And then above them.
Guest:The old guys.
Guest:Was the old guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you guys would be getting spots and slowly chipping away at these spots.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, so Geraldo and I started driving out to Long Island, and then sometimes I would go to the, what was it called?
Guest:The Comedy Tree in Connecticut?
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:The Treehouse.
Marc:Treehouse in Connecticut.
Marc:So you guys, oh, so you spent a lot of time with Greg.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How sad was that?
Marc:It's horrible.
Marc:It's amazing.
Marc:I couldn't believe it.
Marc:I just couldn't fucking believe it.
Marc:It's really...
Marc:So smart and so funny, but couldn't get a handle on that shit.
Guest:Well, it's also, you know, I'm sure the people kind of view it as, oh, well, that's, you know, he was kind of a rock and roll comedian.
Guest:But when I met him, he was not like that.
Guest:No, he was not.
Guest:He's like a hardworking, writer, wrote his ass off.
Guest:And some of it is...
Guest:I don't know, but what people don't realize is it's the repeated amount of rejection.
Guest:You think you reach a threshold where you're like, I did Letterman.
Guest:Now everything's okay.
Guest:But there's something about stand-up where you get...
Guest:The entertainment industry in general, you get either too much praise- Too soon.
Guest:Or none.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So you're either kind of, it's kind of a real repeated abusive situation.
Guest:It's like, come here, come here, smack.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Come here, come here, smack.
Guest:And so I witnessed-
Guest:Greg, you know, Comedy Central deal after Comedy Central deal after Comedy Central deal.
Guest:And he was somebody who had an enormous amount of success in his life.
Guest:He, I mean, he had great interpersonal skills.
Guest:He got me on.
Guest:We would go to Long Island, and these Long Island guys would be like, we're not putting on the doughy white guy.
Guest:And Greg would be like, he's a friend of mine.
Guest:Because Greg was from Queens, he could deal with these guys.
Guest:And so he had all the skills.
Guest:He went to Harvard Law.
Guest:He had every situation he could talk.
Guest:And stand-up is a bit of a meritocracy, but the entertainment industry is not.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So...
Guest:It's why you remember me as miserable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like, I can't believe I can't pass at the comic strip.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so Greg was fine with that stuff.
Guest:He could work that.
Guest:But the rejection of things that used to work, I mean, things that should work, but just...
Guest:the bureaucracy of television, I think it really took a toll on him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's going to, something's going to take a toll on you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you know, and he was, he just, he tried to get a handle on it and it's a, it's a sickness, you know, it's hard, you know, but like when you were wandering around though, were you depressed?
Guest:Oh yeah, I think so.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think there's something about, uh,
Guest:um you know uh a low grade i mean my my depression kind of displays itself in anger yeah sound familiar sure and were you a rager though i you know i think you know it's like i was raised irish catholic so it was a temper yeah but it's just uh you know um you know the anger didn't match the crime that's where that's where it was yeah that's where i could see it and go oh all right
Guest:and so so there's some chemical stuff there but there's i think there's also something we're all crazy like uh comedians and we're control freaks and there's elements that we can control and stand up and there's elements we can't control and uh i never thought of myself as a control freak but i guess like you know when you're on stage that's your thing right yeah i mean we got the microphone yeah right and
Guest:We have our bag of tricks.
Guest:And so there is something about, you know, but, you know, it's not set up where, you know, gaining the approval of a comedy club or a theater.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then getting all that praise and then shutting it down and then going to our bedroom.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or our hotel room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:I mean, I'd like to see, you know, even the most well-adjusted Tom Hanks version of a human being be able to pull that out.
Marc:Oh, yeah, to do Irvine.
Marc:We did, like, what, 15,000, 16,000 people.
Marc:I got on my Toyota.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And I drove back here, and I had some cereal.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's bizarre.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's, and I think for me, it's like one of the things I've learned is that I think I'm above, you know, I intellectually can go, well, you know, I figured this stuff out, but you have to repeatedly learn it.
Guest:You have to sit there and go, you know what?
Guest:You are jealous.
Guest:You are jealous of this situation.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:You are in a vulnerable situation, right?
Guest:You know, like the oddball thing, it's fun, but it's also I'm spoiled because I go and I do these theater shows with my handpicked opener.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I don't have to worry about what I'm going to follow.
Guest:I know what I'm going to follow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think there's something great about that, but there's also something where you can get lazy.
Guest:So it was kind of fun.
Guest:It was fun following Sarah, and it was fun following Bill Burr, but it's also, you know, like when that night that I followed Bill Burr, I'm like, wait a minute, he's...
Guest:You know, he is like, you know, it's like, you know, this anger, like, fuck this shit.
Guest:And then I'm going up there and going, you know what I mean?
Guest:So I'm like, musically, this doesn't fit.
Guest:Yeah, but you're Jim Gaffigan.
Guest:I know, but some of it is.
Guest:You don't think that?
Marc:I think there's...
Marc:You know, I look back.
Marc:I was completely impressed with you.
Marc:I mean, I got on my show and I talked about it.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I heard it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I was like, you know, like I, you know, I know Bill.
Marc:I know Sarah.
Marc:I know everybody, but I don't get to see you work that much.
Marc:I see them around a bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So like seeing you, I come down off the mountain.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And just kind of lay it out with with with your music and your your sort of rhythm.
Marc:I was like completely impressed.
Marc:And I was talking to you backstage.
Marc:You're like, I don't know.
Marc:And I'm like, what don't you know?
Marc:You do this every night in front of thousands of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I know.
Marc:I mean, we're all like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're all like that.
Guest:Or, you know what?
Guest:Actually, you and I are like that.
Guest:I feel like I look at other people and they're like, yeah, who cares?
Guest:And I'm like, what?
Guest:You don't care?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I think it's important.
Marc:to to care it's important i think they're pretending man really okay they're just around yeah i think they gotta be you know yeah definitely yeah i mean like there's not room for more than two of us walking around going like oh man what's gonna happen is that lighting right
Marc:Are they going to be able to hear what the mic is?
Guest:But there is, I mean, the lessons of comedy, it's so great because, you know, having young kids and seeing just the battlefield of childhood, I mean, it's insane.
Guest:And my kids are very nice and they have friends and everything.
Guest:But it's terrifying.
Guest:10, 8, 5, 3, 2.
Guest:So, just dropping my kids off at soccer camp, my older ones, and I brought my three-year-old.
Guest:And I turn around and some kid's bullying.
Guest:Some eight-year-old is bullying a three-year-old.
Guest:And I had to hold myself back from punching this kid.
Guest:I was like, do not ever think...
Guest:You know, like it's like you might.
Guest:And I do this.
Guest:My wife thinks I'm crazy.
Guest:Like if anyone's ever rude to my kid, I go right up to them.
Guest:I go, what are you doing?
Guest:What are you doing?
Guest:And she's like, Jim, you look crazy.
Guest:I'm like, I don't care.
Guest:Maybe my kid will see like my dad is crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he's got my back.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, so it's.
Guest:How do kids respond to that?
Guest:I grabbed this kid and I tried not to squeeze his arm.
Guest:I grabbed him.
Guest:What was he doing?
Guest:My three-year-old was wearing a baseball cap.
Guest:And three-year-olds, they're like orangutans, right?
Guest:They don't know what they're doing.
Guest:And so he flipped it off and he was kind of like pointing it at my son.
Guest:So I grabbed him by the arm and I was like, you're coming with me.
Guest:So I went to find a camp counselor.
Guest:It's a soccer camp.
Guest:And the soccer camp, the guy, it's just like this summer Manhattan soccer camp.
Guest:It's nothing fancy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This guy's like, you know, this beats working being a janitor.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I said, this guy was bullying my three-year-old son.
Guest:And he looked at me like, I don't care.
Guest:I really don't care.
Guest:And I was like, all right, well, at least I did the right thing.
Guest:At least I did the right thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It would have been hilarious if he just bullied you.
Marc:So what's the problem?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So what's the problem, pussy?
Yeah.
Guest:when did you uh meet uh genie i met her in i guess 99 2000 2000 uh-huh i don't think i had um confidence and uh you know till i was in my 30s you know real confidence real confidence where we got fake it for a while
Guest:It's where, you know, this is a beautiful woman.
Guest:I'm going to talk to her.
Guest:She might want to talk to me.
Guest:Before that, I was just like, glug, glug, glug.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah.
Guest:But I think by then, I had some confidence and I dated some attractive women.
Guest:So, I was not intimidated that she was beautiful or a strong woman or anything like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she turned out to be the best thing for you in the world.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I mean, it's pretty amazing.
Guest:I mean, you know, I talk about her being my writing partner.
Guest:But that took a while.
Guest:That took a while.
Guest:And it's very counterintuitive, right?
Guest:Like, you've had many girlfriends.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How often do you sit there, you know, I'm going to write with her.
Guest:It's never the equation.
Guest:But you guys were kind of writing together before you really were public about it.
Guest:I would say there was some... She definitely was kind of coaching me in my acting.
Guest:Did she come from that?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She has like a master's degree in theater and all that.
Guest:And so... And she'd done sketch comedy and she'd done some stand-up.
Guest:And so she knew the comedy world, but...
Guest:you know, comedian to a comedian giving you a tag, you're always kind of like polite, thanks.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Even though you thought of it, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so, I assume that would be the relationship with her and, but it became very much, you know, there was great insights and then there was,
Guest:And we would have debates on where a joke would go or the value of doing it this way versus that way.
Guest:And so eventually it came to a point where I was like, yeah, she's definitely my writing partner.
Guest:I mean, I definitely have the final say.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's not like I'm doing this 10 minutes because my wife made me do it.
Guest:It's not that, but it's...
Guest:There's also something about in this business, I don't care about the credit.
Guest:I care about the product.
Guest:Occasionally on Twitter, people will be like, did your wife write that joke?
Guest:I'm like, I don't give a shit.
Guest:It's like, if you really think that, that's fine, but-
Guest:It's a pretty good collaboration.
Marc:I won't mess it up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't think you'll mess it up.
Marc:You're too far in.
Marc:Far too deep.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Now, what's interesting to me is, though, you come from this background where...
Marc:There was a premium put on security, on working, and your work ethic.
Marc:And more than most comics, you seem to have over time fairly seemingly deliberately figured out a way to really find your audience.
Marc:And it's a big audience.
Marc:And you've never been sort of ashamed or thought about
Marc:Like that doing commercials was a bad thing or that doing any of that stuff.
Marc:I mean, it seems like your work ethic is one that seeks security.
Marc:That you were confident enough in who you were and your style and what was funny about you that you weren't like, yeah, I'm not doing that.
Guest:yeah i mean it's it's yeah i mean i definitely kept my day job longer but some of it was for creative reasons like i kept my day job so that i wouldn't have to go and do a bar show in new jersey or i wouldn't have to take because geraldo quit his job pretty early and so i would see him go and do these wrestling match shows you know and um
Guest:Yeah, no, I think that there was some unconscious search of security, but no one going into stand-up.
Guest:I definitely got to a point where I was like, all right, because I never imagined I would be married.
Guest:I came to a conclusion, all right, I'm going to be the weird uncle that lives in a small, filthy apartment in Manhattan.
Guest:That your brother and sister bring the nieces and nephews over to see the bathtub in the kitchen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I had gone through and been rejected by all these festivals.
Guest:I had been doing stand-up.
Guest:All you guys and Geraldo and Ian Bagg had all done Conan and all these late-night shows, and I had been rejected by all of them.
Guest:So I had gone through all this anger, and I had gotten to a point where, all right, I'm doing this because I love doing it.
Guest:I'm – maybe I'm going to be able to make a living combining the commercials and stand-up.
Guest:But I don't – like, Geraldo wanted to headline.
Guest:I never imagined – I didn't really see, like, wanting to headline.
Guest:That wasn't my goal.
Guest:I know it sounds like, you know, the actor that's like, I just wanted to do community theater.
Guest:What did you want to do?
Guest:I wanted to be a writer on Letterman.
Guest:I wanted to –
Guest:Be a writer on Letterman or, you know, my goal really was to do stand-up on Letterman.
Guest:That was, if I could do stand-up on Letterman, then all these years.
Guest:He was vindicated.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And because, you know, back then it was, if someone found out you're a comedian, they'd say, have you been on any shows?
Guest:Right, you need the validation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you were actually doing some acting work before, you know, you really broke as a comic.
Guest:Yeah, there was plenty of times when people thought that I was... I did a movie with Dennis Leary and he didn't know I was a comedian.
Guest:That hurts.
Guest:You know, in some ways I didn't care.
Guest:In some ways, yeah.
Guest:No, but it wasn't... I mean, that was...
Marc:20 years ago no no i know i know but i'm just trying to see like because what i was saying is basically that once you did realize your stand up and once you built a business around your stand up yeah and that's you know including you know television projects and doing like three kings and showing up in movies and commercials that i think because of your wife and your family that your you know your values were very specific you know i've got a family to feed right and
Marc:And and I think that, you know, when I see your output and how, you know, diligently you are with with releasing CDs, DVDs, and now the book market seems to be good for you.
Marc:And then kind of pushing forward and becoming like, you know, a theater act almost exclusively.
Marc:I have to assume that some of that is, you know, thankfully, you know, driven by your family responsibilities.
Guest:I think, yeah, I think fear as a motivator is pretty important.
Guest:But you're very hard.
Guest:But I like working.
Guest:No, no, I know.
Marc:And the thing is that usually you'd be saying this stuff about somebody who would do anything, but you don't.
Marc:You're very specific.
Marc:And do you remember when you started to break or how it happened?
Guest:Gosh, because there's important moments.
Guest:Where, you know, getting on Dr. Katz was like huge.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Yeah, I remember that.
Guest:Yeah, those were all great.
Guest:But that was sort of like, I want to be one of the guys moments.
Guest:Well, it was, yeah, that was, I want to be one of the guys.
Guest:But it was beyond the pale.
Guest:It was...
Guest:Comedy Central, I had done a half hour.
Guest:Geraldo and I did it the same night.
Guest:And then Geraldo had done three more half or two more half hours.
Guest:And I couldn't get arrested at Comedy Central.
Guest:And then my manager was with the same management company that handled the blue collar guys.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Comedy Central was like, you want any more hours?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And my manager was like, what about Jim Gaffigan?
Guest:And so it was like a different person.
Guest:So like this hierarchy at Comedy Central, someone else had bought an hour from me.
Guest:So the Beyond the Pale got on Comedy Central, and that changed everything.
Guest:It did.
Guest:That completely changed everything.
Guest:So the Hot Pockets joke was on there.
Guest:When I had done my half hour, they didn't use Hot Pockets.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:And Beyond the Pale, they didn't have...
Guest:tons of hours of stand-up and they could air it at any time so uh it just they aired the hell out of it and it just served as an infomercial uh and so that that turned me into a theater right it took like six months after it started airing uh-huh but yeah it was all beyond the pale that really did it and then you know i think combined with
Guest:a lot of acting roles.
Guest:So people were like, oh, he was from, you know, had that part in Sex and the City or had that part in... Right.
Marc:And they had all sort of, you became a guy that was across all their mediums.
Guest:It was just a, you know, we could sell 800 tickets in a theater.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So, but what's also significant is that
Marc:You're dealing, I think, what was probably Comedy Central's issue was that your comedy was, it's sort of timeless, but it's also sort of grown up.
Marc:And in a way, I would assume that your audience was primarily adults or people your age-ish.
Guest:You know, it's weird because I'm doing this show that's going to be on TV land in Comedy Central.
Guest:And that's the first instinct.
Guest:Everyone's like, yeah, 50-year-olds like 40-year-olds like this stand-up.
Guest:But that's not the case.
Guest:The case is that...
Guest:20-year-olds and 40-year-olds like it.
Guest:And so at my shows... And they can go together.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:No, no, no, seriously.
Guest:No, but the thing is, so Comedy Central, it was... TV Land was just going to do it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then it was presented as, well...
Guest:Comedy Central might be 18 to 25 or whatever the demographics are, but those are the people that are watching my special on Comedy Central.
Guest:So I don't know what I'm trying to say here.
Guest:You're just saying your audience is... People think it's people like you, Jim, with kids.
Guest:But you look at people that go to comedy shows, they're not people that have kids.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I guess what I'm saying is that you are the kind of act that a dad could bring his kid to.
Marc:You're also the kind of act that a son could bring his dad.
Marc:And also a kid who could bring his girlfriend to and not feel embarrassed.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And, you know, there and I don't want to say family act, but I mean, but, you know, your your humor is universal and your craft is solid.
Marc:And it's not.
Marc:And I don't think you're like, I don't think you're without risk.
Marc:You know, I think that your character is clearly has a darkness to it and their struggle there.
Marc:But you're fairly calculating in that whether you want to be clean or not, you don't find it necessary to not do that.
Marc:And it's a smart choice.
Guest:Well, here's how I kind of describe it.
Guest:I think that comedians get too much credit and too much criticism for the type of stand-up they do anyway.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So people must be like, you're so honest, Mark.
Guest:But in a lot of ways, that's the only stand up you would do.
Guest:I can't do it any other way.
Guest:So it's not to say that I don't curse in everyday life, but if I'm writing a joke and rewriting it, it's not necessary to curse if I'm talking about steak.
Guest:You know, so so the whole thing is, is that it's, you know, look, I'm not somebody who would like you might go on stage in front of a room full of strangers and say, fuck you all motherfuckers.
Guest:But I'm kind of like there's a little bit of the Midwestern where I'm like, well, I'm not I don't want to curse.
Guest:There's someone's grandma right there.
Guest:So.
Guest:And it took me a while to realize that.
Marc:But that also has to do with writing.
Marc:My writing process is all improvisational.
Marc:So I think that when... Because you're very meticulous.
Marc:But I'm improvising on stage a lot.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But there's... But you know where your beats are.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Well, there is something about... You can't do this for 15, 20 years.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not start writing on stage.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:And so there is something about...
Marc:um i'm just saying that when you know where your beats are like the idea that you know when you're working a joke about steak and you've structured your beats you don't have to say fucking steak but if i'm just on stage and i just ate a steak i'm like god fucking steak i'm gonna do that well it's it's authentic for you right it's authentic for chris rock it's authentic for lewis black right but it's
Guest:It's weird because, you know, Brian Regan, it's, you know, it's like, you know, we both said the same thing in interviews.
Guest:It's like our favorite comedians are filthy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's not like one of those things where Jesus told me to not curse.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:it's it's it's just kind of and i really do if it's how the stand-up comes out yeah and you know david cross can only do that type of comedy right he could do a character of a different type of comedy and it's some of it is finding your point of view and your voice when did you first start doing the the second voice
Guest:The second voice was something that was, it was kind of, it was part of my personality as a teenager where I would talk to somebody and it would just diffuse the situation.
Guest:It's like, I can't believe Jim's sitting in my garage.
Guest:I hope Jim doesn't want this to come out when his book's published.
Guest:But I'm going to fuck him by not releasing it then.
Guest:So some of it is a great tool for diffusing any awkwardness.
Guest:It's an awareness.
Guest:But I didn't do it the first six years I did stand-up.
Guest:I remember I started doing it.
Guest:in um dc at the dc improv when i was you know in the middle before atel and atel would make fun of me he's like oh really yeah you're gonna do this okay grandpa yeah and uh so it was it was kind of something where i you know i used to also think i'm just talking so that when i'm on at the cellar at one in the morning i
Guest:I don't give them time to say anything.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's like all comment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Don't worry.
Guest:Just relax.
Guest:I know I'm talking about bacon for too long.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's, but we all have voices in our head.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just giving them a plan.
Marc:I just recently started doing this blogger.
Marc:that where i don't know if i did it the night you saw me where i say i have an inner blogger that's reviewing my show as it's going along yeah yeah maron started off strong but now he seems to have taken he's sort of sidetracked he thinks this joke's real smart but it's not smart at all yeah exactly we all have this inner and you know you know new york comedy i mean you look at like johnny carson used to comment on his jokes yeah but when we were
Guest:in New York at that point, when it was really kind of... I'm not going to say it was hand-to-hand combat, but if you showed vulnerability, it was weakness by the audience.
Guest:There's a good reason why, you know, Kevin Brennan, Louis C.K., Dave Attell, you know, there is a deadpan in how they deliver things.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, Todd Berry.
Guest:It's because if you show the happy...
Marc:sweet kind of like hi i'm a lovable you will get eaten alive in new york and that's considered weakness right and and i think it's changed a lot well no i think it's open the comedy has opened up a bit so that was your way of of being vulnerable in a way so and being weird yeah but it was it was it became completely you know a defining part of your voice yeah and did you know it when you did it first did you you were you like i got something with this
Guest:No, well, I thought it was a great opportunity to come up with additional tags from a different point of view.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I was like, I can get a couple more jokes in here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can, you know, there's not going to be a crazy Christian woman in this audience who's judging this, but they will enjoy this point of view.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So, yeah, there was some of...
Guest:Yeah, because it's a great... But, you know, it would whiff every now and then.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:It means I would do it and people would just be like, this is just stupid.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So when I did my initial Comedy Central half hour, I chickened out and I didn't do it at all.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I had been doing it for like a year and then... Would you have like a bad night when you were running it?
Guest:I think I... Yeah.
Guest:I think, you know, it was probably...
Marc:50 50 or maybe it was probably 80 20 but i was like you know what this is a tv special i don't want to risk it uh-huh and but beyond the pale you're like you gotta do it yeah yeah and that was the defining moment and but you've been very diligent about what he put out a new album every year no i'd say every uh two years and now the book thing this year with the book you're out you got coming out now is the second book second book second book that then feels like it's right on top of the other one
Guest:Yeah, well, this is a food book, and I feel like I've been writing about food for 20 years anyway.
Guest:It's kind of, you know, half of the book was compiling it into essays, and half of it was kernels of ideas or tweets that were topics.
Guest:Is that your demon?
Guest:Food?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think that's the one that people see, you know?
Marc:What do you got?
Guest:What other one?
Guest:Oh, look, I'm going to tell you.
Guest:No, I've got a lot of demons.
Guest:I think that... You know, I think that... You don't drink anymore?
Guest:No, I drink occasionally.
Guest:I went through five or six years where I didn't drink at all, where I was like, I really want to get on top of this, but...
Guest:I have a fair amount of them.
Guest:And I think that jealousy is still a strange thing.
Guest:That's all insecurity stuff.
Guest:It's all insecurity.
Guest:But I think that...
Guest:Stand-up comedy is the opportunity.
Guest:I don't know if you encountered this.
Guest:It's pretty common.
Guest:It's kind of grumpy.
Guest:I do a set.
Guest:It's the endorphins flow.
Guest:There's nothing that... And I don't care where it is.
Guest:That's one of the things that I learned.
Guest:I know that it's cooler to do a show at the cellar or at a certain place, but I just care about getting up on stage.
Guest:And I think it's important to be able to
Guest:make a lot of different types of people laugh.
Guest:Particularly people that look at you like, I don't think I'm going to like you.
Guest:Or don't know you.
Guest:Winning them over is really fun.
Marc:Getting the people that are like, because now I'm in this weird place where usually if I do a club, I can sell it out, but there's still going to be a good quarter to a third of the people.
Marc:They're just there for comedy.
Marc:And them going like, yeah, I didn't know you at all.
Marc:Then it's like, that's it.
Marc:That's the best.
Marc:Because that's your job.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You just entertained a stranger.
Guest:Well, that's the valid.
Guest:And that's what I realized looking back on, you know, the oddball thing.
Guest:Maybe Louis made reference to this, but that's why he did it is because he's at such a level of fame that if he follows Bill Burr, who's crushing, it is a true serum for his act.
Marc:Right.
Right.
Guest:Now, I don't know if that's, you know, the balancing act is, I think people are funniest when they're most comfortable.
Guest:But there's also a belief that people, you know, a lot of humor comes out of, you know, situations of fear.
Guest:Like, I have to do well or I will die a miserable death in front of people.
Guest:20,000 people.
Marc:But that's weird because I will beat the shit out of myself in that moment and I have to transcend that on top of do well.
Marc:For me, it's like I don't ever go out there with the warrior spirit like, I'm going to fucking kill it.
Marc:It's just sort of like, oh, God damn it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's not getting in our own way.
Guest:I mean, I remember one time I asked Seinfeld, I was like, what do you do when you follow someone who's really filthy?
Guest:And he goes, it doesn't affect me at all.
Guest:And I'm sitting there going...
Guest:what you know because i you know i i believe stand-up is very much a conversation and our point of view and our relationship yeah it's you know there's you know you can be a tell who's kind of the formula my jokes are so funny i don't care if you like me or not but i think it's this long conversation and some of it is unselfish
Guest:The more comfortable I feel, the funnier I'm going to feel.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:And if I come up with a line during a show, I will love you forever.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:And it'll be better for them.
Guest:So, I don't know if I, you know, I appreciate the fact that I grew up doing stand-up in front of audiences that you would just see those dead eyes, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, pre-Obama, just tables of African Americans turning away from you because you were the wrong color.
Guest:And I think it did, you know, there is some calluses that are important for making you an authentic comic.
Guest:But I think...
Guest:Being in front of a warm audience is pretty good.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:And I'm just experiencing it for the first time because you can be truly comfortable.
Marc:And that's where shit happens.
Marc:And that's where... Because you've got 20 years of fucking craft under your belt.
Guest:And if you don't have to fight, something's going to happen.
Guest:And that's where... I mean, I think... I know I've said authenticity, but if you can go up there and be authentically funny...
Guest:where they know you're just making it up yeah that's that's it that's gold that's the crack that's gold and then you can go into like you know all right let's start hitting some pop flies for you people you know so all right man well that's great so the book uh the new one's called food a love story and when's the show on it's uh the show's on in uh june all right that's when we'll put this up
Guest:You're going to wait that long?
Guest:No, no, no, kidding.
Guest:No, I'm going to wait until after your show premieres.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then I'll go to my therapist and I'll say, you know, I feel kind of guilty.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:I just, you know, I don't want him to succeed.
Guest:No.
Guest:You already won.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Well, thanks for talking to me.
Guest:All right.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Guest:Appreciate it.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:Jim's the best.
Marc:It's hilarious.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Check those tour dates.
Marc:I'll be near you somewhere.
Marc:All right?
Marc:You can go to the calendar, and you can see all the dates and venues.
Marc:The links will be right there to buy tickets.
Marc:You can get your JustCoffee.coop over there.
Marc:You can leave comments on the comment board.
Marc:You can do whatever you need.
Marc:Shit.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:I want to thank...
Marc:The band Mae McDonough and Company, they're a great band.
Marc:I enjoyed their record.
Marc:But out of nowhere, they sent me this lovely handmade pedal.
Marc:Handmade fuzz pedal.
Marc:It's a Boomer Lives pedal with Boomer on there and a psychedelic design and two knobs.
Marc:One that says meow and one that says purr.
Marc:And it's just a fucking, just a kind of a breaking apart fuzz number.
Marc:What does it sound like?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Boomer lives!