Episode 563 - Jason Nash
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck is in my throat?
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:What just happened?
Marc:Jeez.
Marc:I think we should keep that.
Marc:I don't think we should edit that out.
Marc:That was real.
Marc:Maybe I'm the idiot for eating a large bowl of air-popped popcorn before I go on the mic.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:I'm Marc Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:That was disconcerting and jarring.
Marc:I'm sorry, folks.
Marc:I'm sorry if we didn't ease into this properly, but I think you felt the emotions of that.
Marc:I clearly almost was in trouble there, and I'm not.
Marc:I lived through whatever was in my throat.
Marc:There was a small victory in whatever happened at the beginning of this episode, and that's the way we want to go out of this year and into the new year.
Marc:We want to... Beating death...
Marc:uh again all right maybe it wasn't that bad maybe i'm over i'm overplaying it a little bit what is going on are you having a good holiday today is jason nash day here on the show jason nash the comedian and actor and writer jason nash whose movie jason nash is married is available on itunes and amazon
Marc:Jason Nash, I've known for years and not not a great relationship on my side.
Marc:Not something has always irked me a little about him.
Marc:I've always felt that he was aggressive and hostile.
Marc:So going into this interview, that's what I felt and assumed, even though he brought gifts, brought juice, brought stuff.
Marc:It was a it was a contentious and engaging interview that really was hands on.
Marc:It was old style, old style WTF stuff.
Marc:Before I do anything else, before I say anything really of any worth, if you consider what I say worthy or worthwhile.
Marc:Season two of my show Marin is on Netflix now.
Marc:As of yesterday, it went up.
Marc:So if you didn't see it because you don't have IFC, you now can watch season two of Marin on Netflix.
Marc:It's a great season.
Marc:A lot of great featured performers.
Marc:CM Punk, Hardwick, Michael Ian Black, Caroline Ray, Sarah Silverman, Joey Diaz, Bill Burr, Paul Feig, Nate Bargetze's in there, Sally Kellerman, Judd Hirsch, Josh Brenner.
Marc:Everyone's back with some very funny people to help it along.
Marc:Merrin season two on Netflix now.
Marc:All right, now where are we?
Marc:Alive?
Marc:I'm having a hard time today, man.
Marc:I'm having a hard time finding the will to talk, the will to do.
Marc:Sometimes it just gets sucked out of you.
Marc:Sometimes you wake up and something has come in the night and just sucked your will out of your face.
Marc:Right up through your orifices.
Marc:Out your ears and nose and mouth.
Marc:And fed on it.
Marc:The will suckers.
Marc:They're out there.
Marc:They're invisible.
Marc:They come in at night.
Marc:They usually travel with other night creatures.
Marc:Will suckers are small apparitions that are known to ride the backs of possums into the night under your house.
Marc:Be wary of the will suckers.
Marc:That's all I'm saying.
Marc:Sometimes it's not depression.
Marc:Sometimes it's got nothing to do with a goddamn ghost coming in and feeding on your chi while you sleep.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Call me superstitious.
Marc:Call me whatever you want.
Marc:I've had some weird thoughts about this shit lately, people.
Marc:I've had some weird thoughts about God.
Marc:I've had some weird thoughts about technology.
Marc:One of the things that's always annoyed me about people's belief in God is when they pray or they pray for mundane things like a parking space where they work or perhaps for a certain thing to be on the menu where they enjoy eating for mundane, petty conveniences.
Marc:My thought is that do you really believe God?
Marc:That God, if there be such a thing, has time for that shit.
Marc:You think that God has time for everybody's little sort of like, I got to make sure she gets a parking space or at least try.
Marc:I always had a problem with that.
Marc:With the idea that God is going to waste his time when there's bigger issues at stake.
Marc:Most of them man-made.
Marc:Most of the problems we're experiencing in the world are direct results of human beings being fucking idiots of one kind or another.
Marc:Murderous fucking idiots.
Marc:Racist fucking idiots.
Marc:Non-caring fucking idiots.
Marc:capitalistic fucking idiots uh just you know fucking idiots humankind is filled with fucking idiots doesn't god have to address that stuff first but i always had this issue with the mathematics of it how can god make time for your bullshit when idiots are ruining the fucking world
Marc:And I started and then I got an email or not an email.
Marc:I was online and something was suggested at me based on something that I looked at online some other time.
Marc:The mining of information, personal information that is then used to to expose your desires and perhaps provoke you to buy some shit.
Marc:And that happens to everybody who is online, which is most people.
Marc:And I thought to myself, well, Jesus Christ, if they can figure out technologically how to do that, you can tell me that God can't manage a parking space for me if I ask him for one, maybe on a given day.
Marc:You know, if mankind can pull it off and service all of our little desires through programming in order to get us to buy things or service our desires by paying for things,
Marc:And we have to assume that if there is a God that, yeah, I guess he can look into the menu at the place you like to eat or perhaps find you a parking space.
Marc:I'm going to go ahead and make a concession here and say that if God has time or if he's paying attention in a full hearted way, he might be able to help you out with the little things.
Marc:And the only reason I'm saying that is because technologically we seem to be able to fucking get up in people's shit in a very intimate way with fairly limited information.
Marc:So if technology...
Marc:is either surpassing God or at least on the same playing field if you believe in that kind of stuff.
Marc:You got to believe in technology because that is a given and it will fuck you.
Marc:And if you believe in God, then that is also a given and he will fuck you.
Marc:She, it, the thing.
Marc:Doesn't end well for anybody.
Marc:Merry Christmas.
Marc:Happy New Year.
Marc:The writing for Marin is coming along.
Marc:I'm writing my script.
Marc:We all have our scripts to write.
Marc:Do you know how television writing works?
Marc:I'll give you a breakdown.
Marc:This is how it works.
Marc:Because everybody writes.
Marc:We sit around in the initial phases.
Marc:I come up with a bunch of stories.
Marc:Then I sit around with the guys.
Marc:Me, Dave Anthony, Sievert, Glarum, Michael Jammin, Sean Russell, Jerry Stahl, Dave Anthony.
Marc:We all sit in a room.
Marc:And I come up with a bunch of stories.
Marc:They come up with some stories.
Marc:We mash the stories together.
Marc:We decide what the stories are.
Marc:Then we we parse them out and then we break them down into a three act structure as a story.
Marc:And then we write a one pager.
Marc:And that's sort of the pitch of the story.
Marc:And then someone gets assigned the script and that person goes off and writes an outline.
Marc:Then we all go over the outline and then that person goes and writes a script.
Marc:Then we all go over the script page for page and make it funnier or fix it or do things to it or flesh it out or whatever needs to be done.
Marc:Then we send it off.
Marc:to the production company.
Marc:We send it off to the network.
Marc:We send it off to the studio.
Marc:Everybody gets their copy.
Marc:Everybody gets notes.
Marc:And each of the sets of notes come back.
Marc:We put the screen back up on the lift and get under it and start retooling and figuring out how we can...
Marc:be diplomatic and honor notes.
Marc:So these things go through a collective rewrite and they go through a series of notes processes, but everything's coming along fine.
Marc:I have to write the script that I've been assigned this season and I will do anything but write.
Marc:When I have to write, my house gets very clean.
Marc:I make air pop popcorn.
Marc:I cook squash.
Marc:I do things.
Marc:I clean out holes in the ground.
Marc:But it's a tricky episode that involves my ex-wife, so maybe it's emotional, maybe not.
Marc:Maybe it's just my process.
Marc:Maybe I've got to wait until the last minute.
Marc:Maybe I've got to just hate myself until I want to crawl out of my fucking skin before I do any creative work.
Marc:Merry Christmas.
Marc:Happy New Year.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Jason Nash now.
Marc:Jason Nash.
Marc:Strap in.
Marc:Don't strap on.
Marc:Strap in.
Marc:Let's talk to Jason Nash.
Guest:I don't attach happiness to success, you know.
Guest:I don't really care about that at this point in my life.
Guest:At this point in your life?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's all been beaten out of you.
Guest:Yeah, I don't give a shit.
Guest:It means nothing to me.
Guest:And this podcast means nothing to me.
Guest:Being here means nothing to me.
Marc:You can kick me out now.
Marc:See, this is the general thing that I know about you, Jason, is that you say these things that should have a sense of peace at the core of them, yet it does not... No, I am.
Guest:I really, I've gotten to that point where...
Guest:I realized it's all not important, and there's nothing that someone can do to me that's gonna make me happier or less happy, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, no, so it's an inside job, as they say.
Marc:Have you heard that expression?
Marc:You mean... You're not going to get happiness from external... You mean like 9-11?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:There's a conspiracy that's taken you down from the inside and it's... That Rumsfeld had a part... No, just your parents usually.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It starts there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I've...
Marc:I've known you for a long time.
Marc:I remember when you started coming around.
Marc:I remember you were sweaty.
Marc:Your hair was longer.
Marc:This was very hostile, by the way, since the minute I walked in.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Hostile.
Guest:I'm always a little hostile with you.
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:Are you hostile with all the guests?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:No, Henry Rollins, not hostile with.
Guest:No.
Guest:Wanda Sykes, not hostile.
Guest:No.
Guest:But there was a shitload of hostility when I walked in.
Guest:It started with, I'll tell the audience,
Guest:Hey, let's get to you, you annoying fuck.
Guest:That's how it started.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And I brought juice.
Guest:I brought a gift.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And even then, it was like you had it planned.
Guest:Thank you for the juice.
Guest:Is this, yeah, go ahead.
Guest:We can start over.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think this is the best part.
Guest:No, I have my own baggage.
Guest:Baggage towards me?
Guest:Not much.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:No, I didn't think you had any.
Guest:I mean, I don't know why you would have any.
Marc:There's not a problem between us.
Marc:I don't find that there's a problem between us.
Guest:Not until about five minutes ago.
Marc:No, not even that.
Marc:I'm just being cranky, Mark.
Marc:You're not unfamiliar with that.
Marc:You know what I'm capable of.
Marc:You know my persona.
Marc:You know me, kind of.
Marc:You know that I can be a little irascible at times.
Guest:I really do know that.
Guest:And when people would talk about you and say, oh, he's so gruff, he's so irascible, I would say...
Guest:No, he's doing a bit.
Guest:Yeah, he's doing a bit.
Guest:He's a comedian.
Guest:And you could see at your root that you have a lot of humanity.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So I was just doing a bit kind of.
Guest:I guess it was the annoying when you call me annoying.
Guest:Fuck.
Guest:That made me think, oh, I did something to piss him off as it's the first line.
Guest:Hmm.
Marc:But maybe it's all a... Just busting balls.
Marc:Can I do that?
Marc:Can I assume that intimacy with you since I've known you since you were a child, it feels like?
Marc:You're right.
Marc:You can.
Marc:I thought maybe you could absorb it.
Guest:I remember the first thing you ever said to me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What was it?
Guest:We were at Luna Lounge, and you go, you go, you just got off stage, you go, there he is, the Lower East Side sensation.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, like all angry.
Guest:Remember when you were a sensation?
Guest:Yeah, I had something go well for myself.
Guest:You were so mad that someone else had a nice set.
Guest:See, so why were you surprised at Annoying Fuck?
Guest:Because I thought you had, because I thought you had totally grown.
Marc:I have grown.
Guest:I know you have.
Guest:I listen to the show.
Marc:But, you know, it's like you and I are locked in whatever happened there.
Marc:That was the last time we exchanged words.
Marc:Maybe a couple of times backstage where you were worked up.
Marc:Well, see, maybe I have a hard time.
Marc:You had me on your show at a live show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Maybe I have a hard time.
Marc:You don't remember.
Marc:I do, I do.
Marc:You were yelling.
Marc:I did good, actually.
Marc:I have no recollection.
Marc:I did very good.
Marc:I have no recollection.
Marc:I prepared a joke or two about you, and it went well.
Marc:I have no recollection of any of that happening for you.
Marc:But I think that one of the, I can discuss my exact issues with you, I guess, if you want to do that.
Marc:Yeah, of course.
Marc:sometimes from the very beginning, I think years ago you used to do a preacher character, didn't you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I remember that.
Marc:Like a lot.
Marc:You used to do it a lot.
Marc:It was almost like it was a character that you were locking into, right?
Marc:Like you were like that guy for a while.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:It was like you were this, it was like that was when you were a Lower East Side Sensation.
Marc:You did that preacher guy.
Marc:It was like all you did.
Marc:I did other things, but that was the thing that people seemed to like.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And so you sort of became that character for a bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I liked it okay.
Marc:I think my initial reaction was like, oh, it's a preacher character.
Marc:Yep.
Guest:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I had my problems with it too.
Guest:What were your problems with it?
Guest:It was a preacher character.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you try to figure stuff out.
Guest:I was working at Saturday Night Live as an assistant.
Guest:And you're like, I want to do comedy.
Guest:I don't know how.
Guest:I couldn't go up there and be myself.
Guest:I was afraid to be myself.
Guest:And that innately bothers me.
Guest:It would have bothered me more then.
Guest:I worked on it a lot and dropped all the characters.
Guest:You mean it would bother you then or bother me now?
Guest:Yeah, I'm just trying to track it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I couldn't.
Guest:I couldn't go up there and be me.
Guest:In fact, I remember the first time I was, I did like 20 minutes just telling people about myself and it wasn't necessarily that funny.
Guest:There were some funny parts.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I remember the next morning, I was like, oh God.
Guest:that's the greatest, that is the greatest thing that I have ever done.
Marc:Good feeling.
Marc:And we had the space and the time that was afforded us on the Lower East Side to do that type of work.
Marc:This was in LA.
Marc:Oh, it took that long?
Guest:It took me that long, yeah.
Guest:And then the preacher thing I realized was like pretty hacky.
Guest:Yeah, that would be the other problem I had.
Guest:But there were moments with it that were glorious.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Closing Stella and people loving it.
Guest:So you got that feeling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got that feeling.
Guest:God loves me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or to be able to go up there and ignite them with something.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I certainly couldn't go up there and ignite them the way Bill Burr ignites a crowd or you watch someone kill.
Guest:I couldn't do that.
Guest:But I could go up there.
Guest:Why couldn't you do that?
Guest:Because I wasn't a skilled stand-up.
Guest:I was a character.
Guest:It was a character that was yelling and it had music behind it.
Guest:So the music behind it combined with the yelling created like an awesome combustible thing.
Guest:But you wanted to be a comic.
Guest:I wanted to be funny, yeah.
Guest:And then sometimes it wouldn't work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then I remember it was killing in New York and then Stella brought me out to do an LA show.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it bombed.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Bad feeling.
Marc:The worst.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then I tried to... But wait, let's go back.
Marc:Where the hell did you come from?
Marc:Because I remember you were there sort of, not exactly at the beginning of Luna, but you all of a sudden were around the Lower East Side.
Marc:Everyone liked you, kind of.
Marc:And you did the yelling preacher guy.
Marc:But where did you come from?
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Marc:I grew up in Boston.
Guest:You did?
Guest:In the suburbs, yeah.
Guest:Which suburb?
Guest:Medfield.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, Nita, Medfield.
Guest:My dad lives in Nawood.
Guest:My mom's in Natick.
Guest:Oh really, Brighton and Native.
Guest:My sister's in Acton.
Guest:Oh really, everyone's over there.
Guest:Yeah, then I went to UMass Amherst.
Guest:No shit.
Guest:In my senior year.
Guest:When did you graduate college?
Guest:95.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So what are you, like 45?
Marc:41.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I don't know where your math is, but before.
Marc:I think you're reading into a lot of this.
Marc:I think we're, you know, I was just trying to set a tone and we're backing up from it.
Marc:But is there some part of you that wants to hold on to it?
Marc:That's what's interesting.
Marc:Is there some part of you that wants to hold on to it?
Marc:And that thing I said to you at Luna, you've held on to that a long time.
Marc:I can feel that.
Guest:No, that's not true.
Guest:I've been listening to your show and you've- You do a podcast too, right?
Guest:No, I don't do it anymore.
Guest:Really?
Guest:What happened?
Guest:It was too hard.
Guest:Too hard?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To talk on the mic like that?
Guest:To technically get it out and stuff, it was just too hard for me.
Guest:I couldn't do both.
Marc:So you went to UMass Amherst.
Marc:You majored in what?
Guest:Communications.
Guest:Meaningless.
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You have siblings?
Guest:Yeah, I have an older sister.
Guest:She's awesome.
Guest:She's a very peaceful person.
Marc:Is that her job?
Guest:No, she works in computers.
Guest:She's just got like a nice life going for herself.
Guest:Kids?
Guest:No, no kids.
Guest:Well, she has a stepson.
Guest:She's gay.
Guest:She's married.
Guest:And she has a stepson.
Guest:She was the real funny one growing up.
Guest:Yeah, what were you?
Guest:Kind of serious?
Guest:No, I was fat.
Guest:The only Jew in my town.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, awful.
Guest:I had a bunch of kids.
Guest:I had, like, friends in school, but they, like, terrorized me.
Guest:They would, like, write, like, Jew on my car.
Marc:You might have one of those personalities that just sort of, like, you know, everything's right up front with you, and you just kind of want to take a shot, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So the Jew thing was just a means of entry, a portal.
Marc:A bully portal.
Marc:Were you bullied?
Marc:I was...
Marc:Not too much, because I was sort of clever, I think, and I have a bit of a bully in me.
Marc:So if there were bullies, I would somehow try to outsmart them.
Marc:And would you just start bullying somebody?
Marc:No, but I think that not unlike what happened with you when you walked in when I said, I've got to deal with you, you annoying fuck.
Marc:I don't know if that's bullying.
Marc:It's kind of upfront, but it is antagonistic and preemptively defensive.
Marc:Sometimes my sense of bullying was like, how do I get the upper hand quickly and without causing too much trouble?
Marc:You know, just sort of like... Did that make you feel good that you had the upper hand quickly with me?
Marc:No, you never... Oh, no.
Marc:I had the upper hand before you got here.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You're coming to my house.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:I don't feel like you have the upper hand that much.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, see, I'm glad that you've taken whatever's happened in your childhood, and now you have boundaries, and you're protected.
Marc:You're ready to go.
Marc:Like, you know, this guy is not going to fuck with me.
Marc:I think that's great.
Marc:Yeah, I expected... Don't make me feel bad.
Guest:I won't say anything.
Guest:What did you expect?
Guest:I didn't expect some sort of mental Olympics here.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I didn't expect that at all.
Guest:Do you listen to the show?
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Guest:You seem to really like fawn over everybody and really like everybody.
Guest:I'm trying, Jason.
Guest:I'm trying to fawn over you.
Guest:I really am.
Guest:I don't need you to.
Marc:I'm happy to fucking go at it.
Marc:I love it.
Marc:We're not going at it.
Marc:Yeah, we sort of are.
Marc:We were having a nice discussion about how you were bullied.
Marc:I was about to ask you, and then you asked me if I was bullied, and I told you the truth about it.
Marc:And I said, like, about the upper hand.
Marc:Then you said, do you still like that?
Marc:And I made an example.
Marc:And then you were like, do you think you have the upper hand here?
Marc:And I made a joke.
Marc:And then you sort of took it seriously.
Guest:Let's go back in.
Marc:And then you were like, I don't think you have the upper hand.
Marc:See, like, you said that.
Marc:You said, like, I don't need the upper hand.
Marc:I don't need it.
Marc:But you said that.
Marc:I don't.
Marc:Right, you said that defensively because I might have said something.
Guest:Is this about the message I sent you?
Guest:Is this about, did you listen to the bit I sent you or you didn't listen to it?
Guest:The preacher bit?
Guest:No, I sent you a bit.
Guest:Is this about the bit I sent you?
Guest:Probably not.
Guest:Which bit?
Guest:I think it is.
Guest:The bit where I was, remember I sent you that bit?
Guest:What was it about?
Guest:It was about.
Guest:Fresh My Memory.
Fresh My Memory.
Guest:It was about not coming on the show, and then I was saying how I defend you and how I like you.
Guest:Oh, yeah, like it was an appeal.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you did get it, but you're pretending like you didn't.
Marc:I just don't remember.
Marc:I'm busy.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You know, and now it is ringing a bell.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I thought, like, wow, this guy really wants to come on the show.
Marc:Of course I do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I want to promote my movie.
Marc:I know you do.
Marc:I got several calls about the movie.
Marc:Good.
Marc:Insisting that I watch the movie.
Marc:Good.
Marc:And yesterday I said, I don't know if I'm going to have time to watch that fucking movie.
Marc:If they want to move this thing up a few days, we can do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're here.
Marc:I just got a message that said tomorrow be here.
Marc:I don't know anything about that.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So you have people and I got to deal with your people.
Marc:Maybe that's.
Marc:Is that you don't normally deal with people?
Marc:No, I do normally deal with people.
Marc:But the fact that they've like.
Marc:You mad that I have people?
Marc:No, I have people.
Marc:But maybe you don't think I'm on the level of have people.
Marc:No, I think anyone.
Marc:All that takes is money.
Marc:So the, no, they kept pestering.
Marc:They kept bothering you.
Marc:Yeah, and you had no idea about it.
Marc:No, I don't know.
Marc:Well, that just means your people are doing a good job for you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so it was bothering you.
Guest:It was annoying.
Guest:It was like, fuck this guy.
Guest:So that was the annoying fuck.
Guest:My people.
Guest:You should have said that to my people.
Guest:Say you annoying fuck.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Why don't you tell them?
Guest:Nah.
Guest:I won't do that.
Guest:I like what they're doing.
Guest:I like them bothering you.
Guest:Fucking making you irascible and making a good episode for this show.
Guest:It's going pretty well.
Marc:I think it's going really well.
Marc:I watched a movie.
Marc:because your people bothered me and because I've known you a long time and because I was like, all right, maybe he's done something finally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For his sake, I hope he's done something.
Guest:As you said to me, I've been waiting 20 years for you to do something.
Guest:Did I say that?
Guest:You said that to me once.
Guest:When did I do that?
Guest:What do you got, Parkinson's?
Guest:Maybe a little.
Marc:I'm 50 and I'm busy.
Marc:I have a lot of things going on.
Marc:Something's become a blur.
Marc:You're so busy, huh?
Marc:I'm a little busy.
Marc:You like that?
Marc:it's okay it's a little overwhelming you know because like i never understood you know how people don't respond to emails and shit or like you know because i used to get mad about it yeah but like you literally don't have time to answer i know it's not even a matter of time you just forget them yep they just go by and you're like oh shit you know what i mean there's four emails and you can only get to one
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the one takes up... That just requires immediate attention.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know when I email people and people don't email me back, I don't take it personally.
Guest:I'm happy to see you.
Guest:I'm happy to see you too.
Guest:You know, I will tell you that watching you do the podcast is just so inspiring.
Guest:It really is.
Guest:Because I knew you and I knew you were somebody that...
Guest:was way more talented than whatever was going on with you.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Because, you know, when you would go on, I'd fucking go in and watch you.
Guest:Not a lot of people that'll go in and watch.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:You know, Patrice O'Neill's on, I'll go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Bill Burr, oh yeah, I'm going in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then you go on, and then to watch you sort of,
Guest:Watch this blow up.
Guest:It gave me hope, if I'm being totally honest.
Guest:It gave me hope, like, oh, fuck.
Guest:It could happen.
Marc:It happened for him late.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't know if it's late.
Marc:It happens when it happens.
Marc:Remember, let's get back to spiritual you from the beginning.
Marc:It's going to happen when it happens.
Marc:The idea that something's happening late or not happening on time or
Marc:or not happening at all, you know, are all, you know, horrendous fears.
Marc:And eventually you surrender all of those fears and maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's just like, I'm not that zen about it, but I can't.
Marc:It happened when it happened because I was ready for it to happen.
Marc:I don't know that I was ready for it to happen before.
Marc:I don't know if I could have handled it.
Marc:I'd had other opportunities.
Marc:This didn't go anywhere.
Marc:Who knows why?
Marc:At the time, you're like, those fuckers, why didn't they give me a chance?
Marc:And then when you look back at stuff, it's like, what would I have done with that opportunity?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Well, you never brought you to what you were doing.
Marc:I never was whole enough.
Marc:I brought some version of me.
Marc:I think you have that issue as well.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I'm terrible.
Marc:And the thing, I think that what got me sort of...
Marc:weirded out about you is like you're one of these guys that you know you tried a lot of things you did a lot of characters there was this sort of uh there was a lot of attempts at ridiculousness and absurdity and you know you know characters and that kind of stuff and i and i always saw you i always thought that you were incredibly aggravated under all that i mean i know you're a nice guy and you're a pleasant guy here but you know you you're you're kind of raw emotionally and and a lot of this stuff started to feel a little desperate
Marc:And then later on, after you got married, then you found some source of your anger, which is that things didn't work out for you, yet you're in a pretty good life, but it was not the life you wanted.
Marc:You're like a house husband, a daddy, what do you call it, Mr. Mommy kind of guy.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And that became your sort of point of view, but it was honest.
Marc:And you genuinely seemed really almost too furious about it.
Marc:And then the last few times I saw you, it was like, is that really a sympathetic angle?
Marc:I wonder.
Marc:I wonder how people are responding to this.
Marc:Like, this guy's doing all right, but it's like, my wife, my kids.
Marc:But underneath it all,
Marc:I think what I saw and what became sort of like, not a judgmental thing in terms of like, not that I don't like you, but your desperation became so intense, it was difficult to be around.
Marc:Is that possible?
Guest:Well, I don't know if you were around me at all to be around.
Marc:No, I just saw you at shows.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That was the visceral feeling.
Guest:You mean like actually hanging out?
Guest:No.
Guest:I don't know you for that.
Guest:But why would you say that I was too desperate to be around?
Guest:What does that mean?
Marc:Like, I would get uncomfortable in the short periods of time that I would be with you.
Guest:Oh, so when I would be on stage, you were uncomfortable.
Guest:Right, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, listen, I don't sell myself as a stand-up.
Guest:You know, I go up there to work out material.
Marc:No, I know, but I'm just like, were any of those feelings real or is that just an act?
Guest:I mean, did you feel at the end of your rope?
Guest:I'm a terror.
Guest:I'm an absolute terror.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You know, I'm a fucking living nightmare.
Guest:You are?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No doubt, Mark.
Marc:Okay, so it wasn't unwarranted.
Marc:I know you're here as we're talking and you feel better about things, but I'm just telling you that in the same way that I may have bullied when I was younger, my reaction to you is just slightly self-protective, but I don't really know how to do that because I'm not good with boundaries.
Marc:So like my sort of posturing with you has been to protect myself because I'm very sensitive and that's why I'm okay at this job from whatever like fury that was like you were trying to manage.
Marc:Like my fury would come on you?
Marc:Oh, don't you?
Marc:Yeah, I'm very sensitive.
Marc:No, why would my fury ever come your way?
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:I don't think you would direct it at me, but just the vibe of it.
Guest:You just didn't want to be around the vibe of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I just like I thought like this guy's about to pop.
Marc:And I wasn't afraid of that because I don't mind popping.
Marc:But it was more some sort of twisted concern.
Marc:I knew you were frustrated for a lot of reasons.
Marc:And I know just the fact that you say, I don't try to be a stand-up.
Marc:Well, I think that you are a stand-up and you do try to be a stand-up.
Guest:I tried, but I'm done now.
Guest:I mean, I'm done.
Guest:I hate it.
Guest:I fucking hate it.
Guest:I don't like going into a room and having to...
Guest:please a bunch of strangers.
Guest:I just don't like it.
Guest:So you don't do stage work anymore?
Guest:No, I'm done.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Fucking hate it.
Guest:When did this happen?
Guest:Last year.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Fucking done.
Guest:I hate it.
Guest:I hate just waiting to go on.
Guest:I hate the sort of the mentality that comics only talk about like
Guest:this bananas i hate the idea of going to bananas it doesn't sound good to me i hate the idea of being on the road i do i do like the idea of like going up there and getting some material but i don't and and doing well with it that excites me but it doesn't excite me to like go back the next night and have it not do as well right the job yeah the job it's too hard but i get a lot i got a lot out of it i mean i got like all my
Guest:all my jokes that are in the movie.
Guest:I got that from stand-up.
Guest:You know, those are stand-up jokes, right?
Guest:Or stuff that I can figure out that works.
Guest:I got that out of it.
Guest:And maybe I'll go back to it, but I'm not focused on that now.
Guest:I'm trying to, I'm making another movie.
Marc:Yeah, let's go back.
Marc:So, okay, so you come from- Do you understand that at all?
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Guest:Because I know you're fucking, you've been doing stand-up for a long time.
Guest:I understand it exactly.
Guest:I want to live life.
Guest:Here, I was at Stand Up New York last week.
Guest:Oh, you're in New York?
Guest:Yeah, I saw Rich Voss just on the street.
Guest:And I'm a fan of his and Bonnie.
Guest:And I walked up and I was like, hey, man.
Guest:I've been calling into their show and I tell them.
Guest:And then he like proceeded to talk to Craig Gass about the Bob and Tom show the entire fucking time.
Guest:And I wanted to like- Connect.
Guest:Yeah, I wanted to talk to him about like, what are you doing on the weekends?
Guest:Or how's your kids?
Guest:How many kids you got?
Guest:And he just sat there and he bitched about, and I called on, this is no secret, I called on the radio show, I called him out.
Guest:And I mean, I told them, you know, I was angry about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's just like, I don't like that.
Guest:I want to have a life.
Guest:I want, I want to, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't like going up and couching things.
Guest:This goes to, this speaks to what you're saying.
Guest:I don't like couching things for the audience to like it.
Guest:I don't like it at all.
Guest:I don't like, I don't like when I watch a standup go, you know what I want?
Guest:I want a big fat woman.
Guest:No, you don't.
Guest:You don't want a big fat woman.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:That's a, it's a, that's a lie.
Guest:And so it's a joke.
Guest:It's untruthful, though.
Marc:It might be a joke.
Guest:No, it's not.
Guest:You've seen the... Oh, I don't hear it like that.
Guest:Maybe it is.
Guest:Yeah, a lot of times people tell jokes.
Guest:Well, I don't see the joke there.
Guest:I guess I'm humorless in that department.
Guest:Well, no, I mean, what's the rest of it?
Marc:It's like, I'm just more... No, I mean, like, I want a big fat woman.
Guest:I don't remember.
Guest:I mean, I'm making... So you're out at the setup.
Guest:You're like, no, he doesn't want a big fat woman.
Guest:No, he doesn't.
Guest:I'm not going to listen to the joke.
Guest:I don't believe it.
Guest:I'm not going to listen to the joke.
Guest:I just like things that are more real, more like, that's why I like the show.
Marc:Which show?
Marc:Your show.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, I mean, I do that type of stand-up, you know, but sometimes you, you know, exaggerate as a device or embellish.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You might embellish.
Marc:Like, for instance, let's just take the premise of like, I want a big fat woman.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Maybe that guy a couple weeks ago was on the road.
Marc:He was lonely.
Marc:And he had sex with a big fat woman.
Marc:And he's like, maybe he didn't prefer to do it.
Marc:But it happened.
Marc:And it might have been really fun.
Marc:So the rest of that joke could have been based on the experience he had with what was fun about that.
Marc:So it may not be a general truth.
Marc:It might not be his life's end to want a big fat woman.
Marc:But we've all had that experience.
Marc:And there's something good about it.
Marc:You may not want it, but sometimes you're surprised.
Marc:The point I'm making is I understand your anger and your frustration with stand-up.
Marc:And I understand that you seem to be a little in between in terms of like you're angry about stand-up and you don't do it anymore.
Marc:But now you almost seem like angry that you got to live life.
Marc:You want to live life.
Guest:How are you going to do it?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:I don't think so at all.
Guest:I just said I don't like doing stand-up.
Marc:No, and then he said, it's like, it's not life.
Marc:I want to live life.
Marc:I don't want to sit and talk to Rich Voss about the Bob and Tom show, about his work problems.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I might want to live life.
Marc:I want to connect about kids.
Marc:I don't have time for this guy I've known for years who had some work issue on a radio show.
Guest:No, I haven't known him for years.
Guest:That's the thing.
Guest:I've never met him before.
Guest:I know him as a fan.
Marc:Well, that seems a little judgmental.
Guest:You're so full of shit.
Guest:It's a work problem.
Guest:You're so full of shit.
Guest:You're just coming at me.
Guest:You're just being adversarial.
Guest:You're so full of shit.
Guest:You know exactly what I mean.
Guest:I'm defending stand-up.
Guest:You know exactly what I mean.
Guest:You know exactly what I mean.
Guest:You wanted to connect.
Guest:He didn't have the time.
Marc:He didn't have the time or he was in a different place and your needs weren't.
Guest:No, he wasn't in a different place.
Guest:He was just fucking going on and on about the same thing with Greg Gass.
Guest:His friend.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you, a guy he kind of knows, needs to connect about his kids.
Marc:No, I just would love to fucking talk to him about something.
Guest:And he was in the middle of a conversation.
Guest:Rich Voss isn't the problem here.
Guest:The problem is just, I'm just saying in general, I don't love a lot of the same...
Marc:That life, because you don't live it.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:So that was hard.
Guest:When you were working at SNL?
Guest:But everything is angry.
Guest:I am angry, but I'm not angry about Rich Boz.
Guest:I mean, I'm not angry about not doing stand-up.
Guest:You asked me a question.
Guest:You are angry about quitting standup.
Guest:I wish, there is such a part of me that wishes I could do it, yeah.
Guest:But I can't do both.
Guest:I can't, I'm not that good.
Guest:I work very slow and I have like my brains all fucked up, so I. Why is your brain fucked up?
Guest:I think I did too many drugs.
Guest:Did you?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But was it fucked up before?
Guest:I was never like that great multitasker or anyone that was prolific.
Guest:Oh, so it's like an ADD thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:um i mean i'm on like uh some medication now that's good but really which one it's called um lametrigine yeah yeah it's like like lamictal it's a mood stabilizer it's really good it is oh yeah so why would you prescribe it were you having depression yeah like last year i had a total breakdown like i was going to bed at like seven o'clock at night i would have headaches at night i couldn't i couldn't function at night someone would talk to me i'd just be like
Guest:I would go out in the day and do my creative stuff, do vines or whatever, and have the best time and get so high on the creativity.
Guest:And then I would just crash.
Guest:I think I had no adrenal blockage in my brain.
Guest:So then they gave me this thing.
Guest:I was high for like a month.
Guest:And the minute I took it, they said it would take two weeks.
Guest:It took five minutes.
Guest:I was at a bowling alley party with my son.
Guest:and everything just like went just as a wash, like all the bowling ball.
Guest:It was really something.
Guest:It was good.
Guest:It was so good.
Guest:Yeah, and there was a weird thing.
Guest:I don't know if I should look this up, but in my nostrils, there was like a cold, euphoric thing in my nostrils, and so every time I would breathe in, it would be like breathing in like fucking ecstasy gas, and then that went away.
Guest:What else was going on in your life at that time, though, a year ago?
Guest:I was trying to get the movie out, and the movie was done for like a year.
Guest:Are you married still or you're not?
Guest:Yeah, I'm married.
Guest:You're still married?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I remember you said to me once after I did stand-up, you're like, you better fucking, you're gonna get divorced.
Guest:You better clean that act up or you're gonna get divorced.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:You're just looking at the time, waiting for this to be over.
Marc:Not someone texted.
Marc:So you remember a lot of what I said.
Marc:So I said that.
Marc:And in reaction to what?
Marc:I mean, we've only had a few exchanges.
Marc:I know, but they resonated.
Guest:And then sometimes, you know, you listen to the show and you think you know the person.
Marc:I said that you're going to get divorced if you don't clean your act up?
Marc:Something like, you know, if you keep doing that kind of material.
Marc:Oh, I bet you that was it.
Marc:Was it that dumb party show that used to be upstairs downtown?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I bombed there.
Marc:I think it was there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We were so viscerally angry about it, and some of that's in the movie, but let's go back.
Marc:So you got a job, what, out of college at Saturday Night Live?
Guest:Yeah, I was an intern like the last year, Adam Sandler and Farley were there.
Guest:And then I got the job in that September when Norm, I got a job as like Norm's assistant.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how did you get in over there?
Guest:You just applied or you had a friend?
Guest:I just applied.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, I just went up and we took the internship program and like tried to do whatever they said.
Guest:At NBC or at SNL?
Guest:Oh, at SNL?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And at that time you wanted to be on SNL?
Guest:Me and Alex Sulkin were interns.
Marc:But you wanted to be on SNL?
Guest:Yeah, I auditioned.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Me and Zach.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:You jumped through all the hoops?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You and Gallop of Noodles?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:I remember.
Guest:I was about to go on.
Guest:I went on after Zach, and he walked out, and the talent executive chased him out.
Guest:He had done so well.
Guest:Oh, that's horrible.
Guest:Marcy.
Guest:marcy klein yeah that's horrible to experience when you're waiting to go yeah waiting to go on so then i go on and i i had a cd and i get up there and i go hey uh i got a cd yeah and they go they just stare at me for like what seemed like five minutes you needed it to do your bit the preacher bit i don't know what it was i think it was this this jim morrison bit i did
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:They couldn't play your CD?
Guest:Nope.
Guest:So that kind of fucked you out of the gate then?
Guest:Yeah, it hurt me.
Guest:And then eventually a CD player made its way to the stage as I was like... You were making the noise of the CD?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, like in my brain, everything's slowing down, and I'm just looking at Lorne, and he has just expressionless, because you know they do that to try to fuck with you to see what you can do under pressure.
Marc:Oh, you were auditioning in the studio?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was the first audition?
Marc:Did you meet with Lorne?
Marc:No.
No.
Marc:Oh, you just had that one audition?
Guest:And it was weird because I was already, I was at the receptionist the year before.
Marc:So you knew Lauren Kinda?
Guest:Barely.
Guest:Just walked by.
Guest:He was always cool though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that was the end of the audition process.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:And I did okay.
Guest:They kept coming back like, you know, Ruthann kept going, you're in the mix, you're in the mix, you're in the mix.
Guest:Ruthann Secunda?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:We have been doing this a while.
Marc:Are you still with her?
Marc:No.
Marc:I have no idea what happened to her.
Marc:She stopped calling me back.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:I mean, maybe I am, but I haven't heard from her.
Marc:In how many years?
Marc:Ten.
Marc:So we're thinking, we're looking at like, what, 96 here, 97?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And then you're like, fuck it, I'm gonna start doing alt-comedy.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Because at that time, Surf Reality was around.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:The Luna was going still.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:There were all those outlets down there, later pianos, and it sort of grew bigger.
Marc:Like I'd left, I left in 2001, and you were still there, and so you kind of evolved with the alt scene in New York as it spread out to Rafifis and everything else.
Marc:9-11 I was here.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:You already moved here?
Guest:I was already here, yeah.
Marc:Oh, so you're really- Living with my wife, my girlfriend, yeah.
Marc:You're really a contemporary of mine in terms of the timeline of all comedy anyways.
Marc:So, okay, so you're doing these characters.
Marc:You're doing the Jim Morrison.
Marc:You're doing the Preacher.
Marc:You're getting a little juice down there at Luna and stuff.
Marc:You're making friends with all the guys.
Marc:And then you meet your wife.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:How'd you meet her?
Guest:Doing a show for Fox.
Guest:I had like two partners, Mike and Matt.
Guest:We had like a sketch show.
Marc:Matt.
Marc:Price.
Marc:Yeah, Matt Price, who's in the film, who I worked with briefly.
Marc:On what?
Marc:On the American version of Nevermind the Buzzcocks.
Marc:Oh yeah, I remember.
Marc:Yeah, we did like 12 of those.
Marc:Sure, he was like the set panelist.
Marc:He was like, and you were the host.
Marc:Right, and that was like 2000 or something.
Marc:You were good at that.
Marc:I wasn't, didn't go.
Marc:I was not good at it.
Marc:I watched the show.
Marc:Did you?
Marc:I thought you were good.
Guest:I think you're good at everything you do.
Guest:You're a good actor.
Guest:I remember seeing a little piece you did on, like right before the internet was big, you did like a little internet piece, like an Andy Rooney.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was real good.
Guest:yeah i did a lot of that memorized but you were like standing over a uh like a mountain you were standing on a mountain i was doing like a three minute piece that was memorized yeah it was funny yeah but it was one shot right it wasn't like cuts was that the possum piece because you know now they cut everything up it's like here's the thing about bananas being bang yeah yeah no you weren't doing it that way
Marc:Yeah, I did some stuff.
Marc:But yeah, the price was good.
Marc:I was okay with the hosting, but I was a little too angry.
Marc:I was in the middle of a divorce at that time, and also I needed money badly, and that's why I did it.
Marc:And also I didn't quite understand the game.
Marc:It's a lot to think about.
Guest:Does your recognition of my anger come from your anger?
Guest:Yeah, of course.
Guest:Oh, I see.
Guest:That's why you pick up on it more than everybody.
Guest:That's why you're going to protect yourself, because I don't think everybody's like, I got to get away from that guy.
Marc:No, I mean, that's exactly it.
Marc:It's a sensitivity.
Marc:It's not like, I don't, you know, I know that.
Marc:What are you angry about?
Marc:I just, like, it's something that's... I'll tell you.
Marc:No, it's a little... I'll tell you what I'm angry about.
Marc:Mine's a little intangible in the sense that I think it comes from a very young place.
Marc:And it's just, it's the way I'm, it's the pattern I've chosen to exist.
Marc:I think anger, in a weird way, is just a faulty pattern of taking care of yourself somehow.
Marc:And it's hard to shake because it's sort of deep.
Marc:And it has to do with expectation for me of something that probably is not going to come in the way that I need it to come.
Marc:It's a very young thing.
Marc:And it's what defines you.
Marc:And you're ditching it now, you think?
Marc:Have you ditched it more so?
Marc:No, I mean, I've done some stuff in terms of like, I think that having some success does help in terms of self-esteem, especially if it's on your own terms.
Marc:And I think also being sober for 15 years, it's had some effect.
Marc:But just recently, I'm starting to look into even deeper core issues of really what the source of it is and figuring out some practical way to move through it.
Marc:Your mother and father, is that one of the reasons?
Marc:Yeah, it was just emotional negligence.
Marc:So what were they?
Marc:Were they around for you?
Guest:Yeah, they were around, but they were incredibly self-involved.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Were they into therapy?
Guest:Were they sort of advanced people for the time?
Marc:No, they were just sort of like they had their own insecurities and they were both kind of selfish in their own way.
Marc:And I don't think that the emotional nurturing that is required for a child was that forthcoming, though they did play as if they were doing it, but emotionally you kind of register that.
Marc:So if you sort of go through life craving that nurturing...
Marc:You know, from the outside world, it's not going to come, especially if you have made the assumption that because you didn't get it, you're kind of a fucked up person.
Marc:Then you have a bit of a beef.
Marc:Did you get it?
Guest:Did you get that from girlfriends or your wife?
Guest:No one can give it to you.
Guest:You don't believe that?
Guest:You don't believe that you can get that from your... You can't get it from the outside.
Guest:No?
Guest:Mm-mm.
Marc:So you think you're that fucked up?
Marc:I don't know if it's fucked up.
Marc:It's just it is what it is, and you've got to figure out how to kind of grow yourself up inside.
Guest:Because that's really what I've been doing.
Guest:I've been trying to just grow.
Guest:I get along great with my wife now.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:But my father was pretty violent and not around and sort of a very macho Boston guy.
Guest:What did he do?
Guest:He did all kinds of fucked up shit.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Well, first he had like a business that was amazing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A furniture business.
Guest:And then his partner got shot, got murdered in the middle of the night.
Guest:They had borrowed money from the mob.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And that just fucked him up for the rest of his life.
Guest:How could it not?
Guest:Yeah, he couldn't get back to where he was.
Guest:No one would hire him.
Guest:But he also, like, wouldn't take a job at a gas station.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because he thought he was too good for it, which he was.
Guest:And so we just starved and fucking were, you know, we kicked out of apartments and...
Guest:really yeah and so um homeless and not homeless but like we go live in my grandmother's right shit like that yeah and then my mother she really stepped up she got a job she became a makeup lady at like bloomingdale's on chestnut hill oh yeah route nine uh yeah so we would sort of you know i'd go and sit in the makeup counter and wait for her that was kind of my childhood but it made me very and the other thing is she left him though
Guest:They just split.
Guest:He just was like, he was just, one Christmas, he was just gone.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And she was fucking really distraught.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:Like eight.
Guest:Heavy, man.
Guest:And he was so masculine.
Guest:I mean, if you met him, you'd be like, this is the fucking best guy I ever met.
Guest:A character.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Looks like, he looks like De Niro a little bit, but he's 6'3".
Guest:And he was so macho.
Guest:And I wasn't.
Guest:I was so fucking...
Guest:what's the word I can use?
Guest:Effeminate.
Guest:Effeminate, and I'm not gay, but he wanted me to play football when I was like five.
Guest:I was like, fuck that.
Guest:Trying to beat the sensitivity out of you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Different kind of guy.
Guest:Yeah, and I just wasn't that guy.
Guest:I mean, I remember being very like,
Guest:you know adult at a young age like controlling his anger you were yeah monitoring you know trying to temper it like hey hey dad how are you yeah i dealt with some of that yeah yeah emotionally erratic father oh yeah like you spill your milk and then that's it don't know what's rip your pants gone you're walking around you don't know what the hell it's gonna come at you yeah so you're always kind of like oh yeah fuck like all right let's just get through this
Guest:Right.
Guest:Let's make him happy so we don't get hit.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not to say he wasn't a loving guy, but he could be loving.
Guest:And then he apologized for all that, like one summer in Martha's Vineyard.
Guest:Oh, he did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Probably my best moment.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was it on a boat?
Guest:No.
Guest:He's like, let's go get a beer.
Guest:And I was like, I don't really drink, but I'll go with you.
Guest:You know, again, not manly enough.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:Fucking 39.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he just said, you know, I'm so sorry for, you know, all the stuff I fucked.
Guest:And he couldn't even finish the sentence, you know, because it was so much.
Guest:He said, I fucked up.
Guest:you know i fucked up and i said uh it's okay you know it made me who i am today it's where it's the place from where i write from it's the place from where i get get me from yeah and that was it but it was good it was good to hear him say it was satisfying yeah it made me realize that like when i yell at my kids or something or if i'm an asshole you just go say you're sorry right away i'm so sorry you know and that that goes so far i didn't realize that
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:But you hope that that doesn't become a pattern.
Marc:At some point, you'd like to sort of like, I'm not going to yell.
Marc:Don't tell me how to be a father, Mark.
Marc:You have no idea.
Marc:I'm just saying generally.
Marc:You're going to have kids?
Marc:No.
Guest:Why not?
Marc:Something missed the boat, dude.
Marc:No, you didn't.
Marc:Kind of did.
Marc:Not at all.
Marc:It's okay.
Guest:Are you sad about that?
Marc:No.
Marc:No, I almost had a kid.
Marc:I was thinking about it.
Marc:But to me, I'm a very anxiety-ridden person.
Marc:And I'm relatively, it frightens me.
Marc:My brother has three kids.
Marc:But I have not gotten my anxiety and panic and volatility in a place where I would feel, I never felt like I never really thought about having them.
Marc:That should tell you something.
Guest:But when you have them, that'll all be forced out of you.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I think.
Guest:Because you just can't spend that much time on yourself anymore.
Guest:You're like, all right, let's just go.
Guest:Yeah, you have to take care of it.
Guest:Yeah, it's like if I threw you in the army or someone threw you in Afghanistan, you'd be like, okay, let's do it.
Guest:Yeah, but if I can avoid being thrown into Afghanistan, why not choose that?
Guest:Yeah, I think it would...
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Maybe I shouldn't say this.
Guest:I wouldn't say this to anyone else but you.
Guest:Go ahead.
Guest:But I would never tell someone I have kids.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because it's really hard and it's not for everybody.
Guest:But I think for you, it would be really good for you.
Marc:Yeah, I thought that too.
Guest:Because you get great material, obviously, and it would just change the scope of you and maybe take- I think that's true.
Guest:Take off some of the- Selfishness.
Guest:Selfishness, that's one word.
Guest:Anxiety.
Marc:Self-hatred.
Marc:Yeah, that's limiting.
Marc:It's a little less.
Guest:You don't have any self-hatred anymore.
Marc:No, no, I do.
Marc:But, you know, again, I'm sort of getting where it comes from a little more.
Marc:Self-hatred's a weird thing because, you know, after a certain point, you're like, why am I even doing that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It doesn't fit.
Guest:Colin Quidd said that once.
Guest:He was like, you know, you're depressed and you're just like depressed and you realize that no one fucking cares.
Marc:And, you know, you know, he's like, then you stop, you know.
Marc:It's so funny because your points of reference coming from the alt comedy community are big mainstream real comics.
Guest:I've just been listening to Satellite recently and I don't go to comedy clubs anymore.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So those are my references right now.
Guest:No, you like comedy.
Guest:I do.
Guest:I like all kinds of comedy.
Guest:Yeah, I'm a comedy fan.
Marc:And you're a comedy performer.
Guest:I am.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Maybe not to your level.
Guest:Maybe not to your liking.
Yeah.
Marc:I didn't say any of those things.
Marc:I did not say any of those things.
Marc:Oh, I see.
Marc:I don't know why you're assuming that.
Marc:I told you why I was uncomfortable with your performing style, and you explained to me early on you knew what was going on with the preacher character, but I did not say any of it.
Marc:It seems to me that the voice you have in your head is horribly critical.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Pretty, yeah.
Guest:So your dad's still around, though?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And your mom.
Guest:Yeah, my mom's a saint.
Guest:She's fucking the best.
Guest:yeah yeah both jewish he's she's jewish he's christian uh-huh but he converted did he yeah and then went back to the church i guess you had to convert back then yeah no you didn't why would you why would it happen that's what they told me that he had to convert yeah it was sort of like well maybe that maybe her parents made and my mom's dad was italian he converted interesting so like yeah
Marc:But everything's sort of leveled off, but the fundamental struggle that you have with your father over your masculinity and over his anger and all that stuff, that's sort of defining.
Marc:And you're also this sort of weird preemptive defensiveness.
Marc:I think that's also something we share as well, is that when you have a father that's volatile, you're constantly ready to either be diplomatic to absorb it or to defend yourself.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Fight or flight.
Marc:Did you ever have those kind of fights where it was like shit flying around, gotta get out of the house shit?
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or the other thing that I realized in therapy was like, I don't think people want to hear what I have to say because I would talk to my dad and he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Anyway, you know, I had a tryout with the Patriots once, you know, and you'd be like, oh, I was trying to tell you something, but I guess it doesn't fucking matter.
Guest:It's heartbreaking, dude.
Marc:Cause you said the exact same thing about standup.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Well, no, I, I, I feel like people want to hear what I have to say.
Guest:Good.
Guest:You know, when I, when I'm being honest and really talking about what it is.
Marc:But just for you to even own that space is hard.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like that.
Marc:And like, I think that's another thing I felt that you're approaching the sort of the, the, the, the stage with sort of like, you know,
Marc:You better listen to me.
Marc:You know, like you're assuming that any second they're either going to yell or split.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or start thinking about themselves.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That energy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Got to hold them.
Guest:And then I sort of, to speak to what you said before, then when I became an adult and I wasn't working, I was like, oh, fuck, my father.
Guest:I'm fucking.
Guest:So that's the curse.
Guest:I had this moment.
Guest:I had this moment.
Guest:He was out visiting me in LA.
Guest:I said, I got this thing.
Guest:I got this thing that might happen.
Guest:You know, all these things.
Guest:It's a show.
Guest:It's a show.
Guest:And he goes, oh, I got a thing.
Guest:I got a piece of property in Rhode Island.
Guest:And I said, oh, God, I'm fucking him.
Guest:I'm the guy talking about it.
Marc:Yeah, but the sadder part of that is, and I have it with my father as well, is that they hear you and then they just immediately shift over to them to sort of compete or one-up or validate themselves.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In that moment.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where all you really wanted him was to say congratulations.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:that's horrible buddy and then you have the other side of my mother who just will believe anything you say you know like it's gonna happen i know it's gonna happen for you yeah i just know it and it's like going on like 20 years you're the best you're gonna do it so you can't even you begin not to believe that yeah you feel bad like you're lying like you're a fucking crack like you're a crack addict yeah yeah i'm not on crack anymore yeah
Marc:Or worse, that it's just not true.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, what you're saying is... It's just some more garbage.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think there's... Pipe dreams.
Guest:There's a line in the movie which I go, oh, you know, something like you're afraid you'll end up being one of these people that just talks about doing things.
Guest:There's nothing worse than someone who talks about doing something and then you realize that, oh, fuck, that's me.
Yeah.
Marc:It's all very sad, Jason.
Guest:Well, you know, I'm not looking for sympathy.
Guest:I'm here.
Guest:I'm happy with my medication.
Marc:I'm not giving you sympathy.
Marc:I'm just acknowledging that.
Marc:Well, I'm letting the audience know that I'm not, you know.
Marc:Yeah, but no one's assuming that.
Marc:Because I identify with it, especially this self-absorbed, emotionally erratic father thing.
Marc:It's horrible.
Marc:It's just a lifetime of unreceived and unreciprocated love and constant vigilance against an emotional attack.
Guest:Heavy, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then when I got married, I was like, oh, you're just living with that.
Guest:You're like, oh.
Guest:I'm a man.
Guest:So you have like your dad saying you're a man and there's all these standards.
Guest:So I'm living to these standards, which no one else is.
Guest:It's a modern world now.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But a man does this, a man does that, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I still have those in my head.
Marc:Well, yeah, and also you also have the sort of role model as well, that your dad was a floundering dude.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But that's an interesting and difficult situation you got yourself into in that you married a woman in show business.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Who was successful in show business.
Guest:Yeah, she's doing good.
Marc:As an executive.
Marc:And, you know, made a living.
Marc:And you were a guy struggling to make it in show business.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:But you, I think because of that, became a great father and probably have a relationship with your children that's enviable to most men.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:I try hard.
Guest:Yeah, but you were there all the time.
Guest:Yeah, I was there.
Guest:Yeah, which is nice.
Guest:Like when I hear about a comic who's gone Friday to Wednesday, I think, how could you do that?
Guest:You gotta leave your kids.
Guest:That's hard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then also with my wife, like being so close to success, but not there.
Marc:no i did it every day you you wake up uh you wake up with it yeah she's going to work working on shows oh yeah maybe with people you know for sure or the casting comes in she goes well we're thinking about mark maron matt price mike blyden and you're like john ross bowie yeah but do you ever think that it was against her emotional self-interest to cast you
Guest:Yeah, she didn't want to mix.
Guest:I don't know what you just asked, but I'll try to answer it.
Marc:Well, I'll tell you what I just asked.
Marc:I didn't understand it.
Marc:Okay, I'll explain it to you.
Marc:That her emotional self-interest is like, you know, someone's got to work and I'm the one working.
Marc:And, you know, it's good for the kids to have a parent around as much as possible.
Marc:Oh, um...
Guest:no i don't think she's that devious i mean i think i just she just doesn't like to you'd have to meet my wife you'd really like her she's just i know her yeah you'd really right marnie marnie montgomery was she um no what was her last name hawkman marnie hawkman
Guest:Yeah, you'd really like her because she... I think I have met her.
Guest:She likes you.
Guest:She always liked your comedy.
Guest:Yeah, I've met her before.
Guest:And you guys are both Jewish.
Guest:But anyway, she's just someone who's very reserved, very on point, knows exactly what needs to be done and how to do it.
Guest:I'm not the opposite of you.
Guest:Yeah, I'm all over the place.
Marc:All right, well, so what I'm hearing...
Marc:is that your frustrations grew to a point with performing and with just your lot in life and these dynamics with your father and all this other stuff.
Marc:And eventually you were like, fuck it, I'm gonna make a movie.
Marc:That's what I'm gonna do.
Marc:I'm done with this shit.
Marc:20 years in and this stuff is exhausting.
Marc:It's not really yielding anything.
Marc:But I've got a lot of friends.
Marc:I've got talent.
Marc:I'm gonna write a movie about myself, basically.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And being a divorced fellow twice, I was interested and concerned to the point where I'm like, I hope he didn't get divorced because I think that would be a disaster.
Marc:But there's a lot of great people in it.
Marc:Keckner's always good.
Marc:T.J.
Marc:Miller, who I like as an actor.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What do you mean you don't like him as a person?
Marc:I don't know him.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:Yeah, he's great.
Marc:Super nice.
Marc:Very funny actor.
Guest:What, did he turn you down to do the show?
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:I'm just kidding.
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:It's just always a little odd with us.
Marc:But I think he's a very talented guy.
Marc:Matt Price is there.
Marc:The Richters are in it.
Marc:Sarah and Andy.
Marc:Rachel Harris.
Marc:She's got a little part in it.
Guest:Schwartzen.
Marc:Schwartzen, that was a good scene.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And what's your buddy's name?
Marc:The guy who... Blyden.
Marc:Yeah, Blyden.
Marc:He's great.
Marc:Yeah, everybody's in it.
Guest:Sounds like you really liked it.
Guest:No, I liked it.
Marc:My problem is fundamentally, it's not even a problem.
Marc:I have a particular reaction to you.
Guest:I think that's what it is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think you, I think, I think.
Marc:But it's not a bad reaction.
Marc:I don't think we should talk ever again.
Marc:No, what we've established here is that we have more in common than we would have known before.
Marc:Yes, but I don't feel like there's any bridge built.
Marc:What do you want?
Marc:You want a bridge?
Marc:We're having a conversation.
Marc:And even now I'm fucking wide open, you're resistant.
Marc:Now I can't believe that just because of the way this conversation started that you would still take this position and say to me there's no bridge built.
Marc:I'm wide open now.
Marc:I'm not.
Marc:You are?
Guest:Yeah.
Okay.
Guest:and but you're you know what what happened nothing i'm i'm i'm happy to be here and i'm i'm i'm really actually liking the episode i feel like it's very honest and it actually feels good to sit across from you and get the real deal yeah holy field uh-huh you know it feels good it's like it's like i'm gonna walk out of here and yeah be better
Marc:Look, you asked me to be honest and- I'm glad.
Marc:I want to hear it.
Marc:I'm just telling you that the leap from selfish to the guy who could potentially be a good husband was a little bit of a jump for me and that's it.
Guest:Why is that a jump?
Guest:Because I want to take care of my wife.
Guest:That's all I want.
Marc:I know, but there are scenes in the movie where she comes out and you're doing a contest and the beat is, what kind of money do you get?
Marc:It's like a tote bag.
Marc:Yeah, it's like a tote bag.
Marc:It's a great line.
Marc:It is a great line.
Marc:It's a great joke.
Marc:But there is an element of it all that is obscuring the idea that all I want to do is support my wife and kids.
Marc:But you also want to be big in show business.
Guest:You're trying to be funny.
Guest:I want to do it that way because otherwise I'm miserable.
Guest:So I wanted to take it.
Guest:And I don't think you can... I don't think you're... I don't think you're understanding what it's like to...
Guest:Have to support a family?
Guest:That and also to be underneath someone that you... Look, I met my wife and I didn't really want to get married, but she was so great that I was like, she's fucking great.
Guest:And I know I made the right decision because I'm still with her today and we're going out tonight and I'm looking forward to it.
Guest:And so, you know, I say that in the movie.
Guest:I can't get a job at a bank.
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:I'm fucking 40 years old.
Marc:But the idea, here's the issue is, and again, don't... And I love this, by the way.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I do.
Marc:Is that it's very set that clearly in the movie, she's got money.
Guest:She wants to... That's not true at all.
Guest:I mean, you know the television business.
Guest:It's fucking awful.
Marc:i'm just talking about the reality of the movie when a woman sits down and says we're going to redo the kitchen right she's not going to do that if there's no money there and the fact that you know you are married and you get a thirty thousand dollar irs debt yeah that comes out of nowhere yeah and that's sort of an issue so the dynamic isn't like what you grew up with it's not like i got to provide for my family because you know we're all eating uh cereal all day because that's all we can afford the idea is more of an ego thing in the sense that like no as a
Marc:thirty thousand dollar debt no i know that i you know really have okay so that's that i think that's something no but i'm saying that what's established in the film is that she's the breadwinner yeah and it's not an uncomfortable situation no it is uncomfortable it's uncomfortable for you personally but there's money there no she's sitting down building a dream book she's not remodeling the kitchen she's looking at things she's working
Marc:She has an office.
Marc:I'm just saying that the world you created is a lot like the world you live in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That it doesn't reek of like, you know, if you don't get a job, we're going to have to leave this house.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So, I mean, that's not in the movie, but I, but I'm just saying that the idea that you're presenting me, which is like, all I want to do is do it so I can support my wife and kids.
Marc:They were being supported.
Marc:On some level, you know, you want to do it to validate yourself as a man on a lot of levels.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Creatively, you know, professionally.
Marc:Right.
Marc:In the eyes of what you think your expectations are.
Marc:It's just multidimensional.
Marc:And and what I said for me is that that just becomes it's not even a matter of confusing because it clearly, you know, this is what the character is.
Marc:And that's part of the movie is that you don't really, you know, ultimately you don't know what you want.
Marc:You want to be happy.
Marc:You don't want these possessions and these other things to make a difference.
Marc:But you know that if you could just get them, it would make life at least easier for your wife.
Marc:But you even fight that.
Guest:But he doesn't want, I don't want possessions at all.
Guest:I mean, there's clearly in the movie, she's asking me about things.
Guest:And I say, why are we going after these things?
Guest:They're not going to make us any happier.
Guest:Right, but they might make her happier.
Guest:And that's why I need a job, and that's the whole crux of the movie, that he's trying and failing and trying and failing.
Marc:Yeah, but it seems like you're on two different pages, really.
Guest:Me and the wife?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But sometimes marriage isn't like that.
Guest:I really wasn't trying to attack your movie.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I love this.
Guest:You're the only person that has gotten into it with me.
Guest:So I like it.
Guest:I really do.
Marc:And also the fact that you haven't been divorced.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Like...
Guest:I didn't want to be divorced.
Guest:I don't want to be divorced.
Guest:I don't want to have split time with my kids.
Marc:Yeah, but just, but the nuts and bolts emotions of really being thrown out of your house, having, you know, or having been left.
Marc:You're talking about you.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've been through that.
Marc:You've been left before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have too.
Marc:It's devastating.
Guest:Oh, I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I had a girlfriend once.
Guest:All my friends thought I was funny.
Guest:She never laughed at one thing.
Guest:And I remember I said to her on the last day, I said, you don't think I'm funny at all.
Guest:You've never.
Guest:And that was it.
Marc:You live in Studio City.
Marc:Did you ever see my ex?
Guest:Mishnah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Marc:She lives there?
Marc:I think she lives somewhere.
Guest:I always liked her.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:What happened?
Marc:You were married?
Marc:Yeah, I was bad.
Marc:I was just hard to deal with.
Guest:You were just a dick?
Marc:Yeah, kind of.
Guest:And you were angry and caustic and stuff like that?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:She found a good dude.
Marc:She's got some kids.
Marc:She's doing all right, I think.
Marc:We don't talk at all, but she's doing all right.
Guest:Good.
Guest:Do you want to go over to the other side and get kids?
Guest:You don't even want to.
Guest:You're done.
Yeah.
Marc:I just, I'm just.
Guest:I call it the other side.
Marc:Oh, I just don't see it happening.
Marc:It's not, you know, I'm not like on principle.
Guest:What happens when you meet a woman now?
Guest:You do Tinder or anything like that?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:What happens when you go to a show and you meet a woman or something?
Marc:I've gotten a little cynical.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I had a couple of relationships where I was almost going to get married again and have children and then that turned out to be not a good idea.
Marc:Why'd you pull the plug?
Marc:I just didn't trust the situation.
Marc:I didn't, you know, because at my age and where I'm at, I need to know that someone's really fucking going to be there to do.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I can't take care of.
Guest:Be there for what?
Guest:To take care of themselves?
Guest:And the kid.
Guest:And the kid.
Guest:Because you're going to be gone doing the road.
Guest:No, no.
Uh-oh.
Guest:You mean, so the women that you were involved with, you thought were maybe a little flighty and you couldn't count on them to hold up their end.
Marc:Not quite flighty, but yeah, but there was an element of not, yeah, your end business.
Guest:And not that you want to be taken care of or anything like that.
Guest:Just 50-50, I don't think she can hold it up.
Guest:A little more than 50 I'm going to need from her.
Guest:Okay, you want a 70-30.
Marc:Yeah, 60-40 might be.
Guest:Oh my gosh.
Guest:What?
Guest:Nothing.
Guest:Very bold of you to say.
Marc:I'm 50, dude.
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:It means that when the kids... You're in good shape.
Guest:It doesn't matter.
Guest:You're nice and skinny.
Guest:You got a nice body on you.
Guest:You got a nice head of hair.
Guest:You're handsome.
Guest:When the kids... Your own TV show.
Marc:I'll be 60.
Marc:You know, it's just a practical thing.
Marc:You know, and it's a very sad thing that that didn't work out.
Marc:You know, I understand why the marriage didn't work out.
Marc:You don't seem sad about it.
Marc:Yeah, well.
Guest:Okay, okay, okay.
Guest:You're sad about the marriage and you're sad about not having kids a little bit.
Marc:No, I'm not sad about the marriage.
Marc:I understand why that didn't work out.
Marc:I mean, I'm sad about the relationship that I was in not working out in the way that it did.
Guest:Are we talking about Moon right now?
Guest:No, no, no.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:That only lasted a few months.
Guest:I'm good friends with her.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, that- She's the best.
Guest:She's the best.
Marc:No, she's a great person.
Marc:It just was not emotionally right for me.
Marc:It was one of those situations where I idealized it and really believed it.
Marc:How could this not work out?
Marc:But I didn't know her that way.
Marc:And I couldn't make the cut for what she needed emotionally.
Marc:It just wasn't gonna happen.
Guest:When you idealize somebody, that's fucking really trippy.
Guest:Well, it's just a matter of not knowing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's like my wife, she'll go, I'm going to set up Dan with Rachel and it's going to never work.
Marc:You know, it's never.
Marc:It's just hard.
Guest:It's just not.
Marc:You just can't do it.
Marc:And sadly, I've gotten a little bit cynical, but I think that, you know, spending time working on my own shit is not a bad place to be.
Marc:You know, I'm seeing somebody a bit and I'm not shut off to it, but I'm very scared.
Marc:So, you know, because I have the same thing you do, you know, because when you come from parents that are emotionally demanding and volatile and selfish, you want to be accommodating.
Marc:And sometimes, you know, you risk losing yourself a bit.
Marc:And the anger that comes from losing yourself and also not being able to help the other person, no matter what you do, is horrendous.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, you got it coming from all sides, don't you?
Guest:Inside, I have it coming from all sides.
Guest:Yeah, inside, you got it coming from all sides.
Guest:You are so...
Guest:I can't tell if you're an unbelievable mess or if you've got a good hold on it.
Marc:I've got a pretty good hold on it.
Marc:Okay, good.
Marc:In one area, it's kind of messy.
Marc:Well, that's good.
Guest:I mean, what do you want?
Guest:That's all right.
Guest:Yeah, right?
Guest:I mean, you want it to be perfect.
Guest:It's never going to be perfect.
Marc:Well, I want what you want is that there's a lot of things going well, but sometimes you don't exactly know what to do.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I guess I could have just given up my my career and given up the idea of making films or doing stand up and just because I feel like I feel like you've got a thing where I feel like clearly what I'm going to take away from this.
Guest:And it's good to hear is that you never liked the place I worked from in comedy.
Guest:no the same thing with the characters and the same and then there seemed to be a theme with the movie like yeah well he's fine he's got a he's got a house and a wife who works so why am I watching this that's what I took away from what you said crazy okay yeah I am I'm on 200 milligrams a day
Marc:like we talked about a lot of stuff we talked about the similarities we have emotionally and why i had a hard time with you ultimately beyond the preacher character was that your anger was too visceral for me yeah and and i have a sensitivity to it and it made me uncomfortable yeah but i did realize it was honest and you know when i said to you uh that thing about your wife is it is that i knew that some of those feelings were genuine
Marc:and that you didn't necessarily have a handle on them, and they were mixed with a certain amount of fresh... Some of the feelings were genuine?
Marc:Well, you couldn't be operating at that level of anger if all those feelings were operating at that level of anger.
Marc:You shouldn't have been married.
Marc:So my reason for responding the way I did is like, I don't know if she knows what you're doing, but that's serious shit, and you seem very unhappy.
Marc:So that was why I said that.
Marc:It was a sensitivity thing.
Marc:It was not like, I don't like as comedy.
Marc:It wasn't reading to me as comedy.
Marc:And you said yourself that worrying about whether the audience likes you or whether you can do something that they're going to laugh at or like...
Marc:became straining for you because you wanted to be honest.
Marc:So there you were.
Marc:I was reading something honest, and now you're telling me that, okay, so all those feelings were real, and they were functioning at that level of intensity.
Marc:And for me to say, I'd be careful, somehow it was an attack or a diminishment of your comedy, but it was just really me being sensitive as an angry person.
Marc:Oh no, when you said that to me at the comedy club, I wasn't offended.
Marc:But what I'm saying to you is that whatever you just framed you're gonna leave with from this conversation is your own shit telling you that you stink.
Marc:So what I've said, I think we've had a fairly thorough conversation.
Guest:I think we've had a good conversation.
Guest:And I just, that's what I thought.
Guest:And it's something that I certainly want to look at.
Marc:But I think that we established, if anything, throughout this conversation was that the reason I have the reaction to you I have is because I sense what's going on deeper inside of you because I have it going on in myself than you might be accustomed to people sensing.
Marc:So that was my discomfort.
Marc:It was not outside of the preacher character.
Marc:I did not diminish where you were coming from comedically as we come from a similar place or at least desire to come from a similar place.
Guest:Yeah, I guess I hear all the stuff you're saying, and it's like you're missing a chromosome.
Guest:You're missing a sensitivity chromosome, a little bit, where I'm waiting...
Guest:And again, it might be me.
Guest:I'm waiting for, I guess a bridge.
Guest:I can't.
Guest:I'm waiting for some sort of, and I don't feel it.
Guest:I don't feel it.
Guest:I don't feel it.
Guest:Usually with 99.9% of the people that I come across, even if they're critical or even if they're bluntly honest with me,
Guest:there's a um the guard gets down and maybe it's because we're going back and forth but I don't like even when you say I'm not coming at you I still don't feel uh connected with you or that we have any kind of uh you know goodwill okay listen to me yeah I'm gonna listen uh you know uh I'm sorry
Guest:I fucked up.
Guest:I fucked up.
Marc:Good talking to you.
Marc:Good talking to you, Mark.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:I thought it ended well.
Marc:I know it was a tough one.
Marc:It was a little intense.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:We have an intense thing, me and that guy.
Marc:As I said before, Jason Nash is married.
Marc:It's available on iTunes and Amazon.
Marc:Marin, my TV show.
Marc:Second season is now available on Netflix.
Marc:I just had a chest pain.
Marc:Just now I had a chest pain.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:All right.
Marc:We good, but is this happening on the mic?
Marc:Right?
Marc:I don't know about this.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:All right, fuck it, man.
Marc:Boomer lives!