Episode 561 - Melissa Etheridge
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:How are you?
Marc:Good.
Marc:Now I'm answering myself.
Marc:It's Mark Maron.
Marc:Welcome.
Marc:Welcome to the show.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:It's my show.
Marc:You're listening to me, Mark Maron.
Marc:Did I mention that already?
Marc:Well, look, folks, it's a pretty amazing episode today.
Marc:I got to say, it moved me when I recorded it.
Marc:And it moved me again when I just listened to the song at the end of this episode.
Marc:I Melissa Etheridge is somebody we all know.
Marc:We all know Melissa Etheridge.
Marc:Everybody knows Melissa Etheridge.
Marc:There was a there was a couple of years there where everyone everything was Melissa Etheridge.
Marc:And then you wonder, like, what's Melissa Etheridge been up to?
Marc:And then someone gets in touch with me and says, hey, would you like to have Melissa Etheridge on the show?
Marc:And I say, yeah, I'd like to know what Melissa Etheridge has been up to.
Marc:And I'd like to hear her whole story because I don't know that much about Melissa Etheridge.
Marc:She's got a new record out.
Marc:That's why she wants to come on the show.
Marc:And I'm like, okay.
Marc:It's not really about the record, but it's about her.
Marc:But this new record, it's called This Is M.E.
Marc:And it came out in the fall.
Marc:And you can get it wherever you get music.
Marc:But I said, yeah, let's go.
Marc:Let's talk to Melissa Etheridge.
Marc:And I got to tell you, man.
Marc:This conversation was pretty astounding and pretty emotional, and it was very engaging.
Marc:She came with her wife, Linda.
Marc:Lovely people.
Marc:And she sat in here.
Marc:I let Linda sit in here, and I don't usually do that, but they were so goddamn cute together.
Marc:I had to let it happen, and it turned out to be a great conversation.
Marc:Very moving, very deep, very informative, but just uplifting and heartwarming.
Marc:And I just listened to the song that she plays at the end of this show that you will hear.
Marc:This is happening for you.
Marc:I believe it's called Take My Number.
Marc:And I cried a little and I cried a little when she played it.
Marc:It's just there was something there's something very earnest and and and sweet and wise about Melissa Etheridge.
Marc:I'm going to say that confidently and earnestly.
Marc:Because I was completely blown away by this whole experience that you're about to hear.
Marc:I just wanted to tell you that up front.
Marc:I think it's important that you know how I feel sometimes.
Marc:Usually you can tell during the show, I imagine.
Marc:But for me to cry twice listening to a song, well, that's not true.
Marc:I've been a little weepy since I've been without the nicotine.
Marc:A little bit weepy.
Marc:What's going on here?
Marc:It's the Christmas season.
Marc:I've got mail waiting here.
Marc:When is this from?
Marc:Oh, this is weird.
Marc:Some guy from Detroit.
Marc:I don't even know.
Marc:This was just sitting here.
Marc:It's been sitting here for months.
Marc:I've always considered you a badass, but I've revoked your membership on account of having never been to Detroit.
Marc:One, Detroit is definitely badass.
Marc:One cannot be a badass having never been here.
Marc:Two, thinking Detroit is dead or dying is definitively un-badass.
Marc:It's akin to having a gluten allergy.
Marc:You assume it's true because the mainstream media told you it's true, but it's total bullshit.
Marc:Come visit and I'll play tour guide.
Marc:If you survive the mean streets, I'll return your badass card.
Marc:Also, I'm super interesting.
Marc:It would make for an extraordinary badass guest star.
Marc:How could you resist?
Marc:Always and forever, Timothy.
Marc:i was just sitting here i meant to read it because i liked it i do have to go to detroit i do have to experience detroit i guess i was chatting about detroit a while back but that was just sitting here so i thought i'd read it i'm it's the new year's coming i'm i'm taking care of old business on my desk is that isn't that what we're supposed to do so i didn't do anything i did i did nothing for the holiday i'm a jew i'm
Marc:And I'm a Jew through and through.
Marc:I'm a Jew going back generations.
Marc:I did nothing.
Marc:I didn't even know what day Hanukkah started.
Marc:And you know what else?
Marc:You know, I've got to reassess who I am or something.
Marc:I'll be honest with you.
Marc:I was only invited to one party, one Christmas party.
Marc:And then at the last minute, I was invited to drinks at Al Madrigal, a wonderful comic.
Marc:And his wife, Kristen, invite me every year to their thing.
Marc:And I love that.
Marc:I like going.
Marc:I love them.
Marc:And I see some friends there.
Marc:And then Brendan Small invited me a few days ago to cocktails at his house.
Marc:I believe that's tonight.
Marc:I don't know if I'm going to make that.
Marc:But only two parties.
Marc:Now, you guys hear me every week.
Marc:You hear me talk.
Marc:It feels like I have friends, right?
Marc:When I talk to these people, it feels like we get close.
Marc:We connect.
Marc:Two invitations.
Marc:What is it about me?
Marc:Are people afraid that I'm going to talk to them like I talk to them on the podcast at their party?
Marc:Am I draining myself?
Marc:am i not somebody that people think like hey he'd be fun to have here what where am i where are my party invitations i don't get it i feel like i've made a lot of progress as a human being i just want to come to your party i mean jesus fucking christ granted i didn't know what day hanukkah start doesn't matter i'm a guy living alone with two cats
Marc:And no one thinks, like, maybe it'd be nice to have Mark over for supper since we're having people.
Marc:I'm not feeling sorry for myself.
Marc:I just wonder what the fundamental glitch is where I don't seem like a good idea to have at your event, at your get-together, friends.
Marc:I guess it plays into my whole sort of...
Marc:Insecurity about that, like, you know, everybody comes in here, especially people I kind of know or people that know people I know or people that I respect.
Marc:I feel strangely close to everybody.
Marc:It's not based on anything.
Marc:It's just the way I am.
Marc:And I think they like me too.
Marc:And I think we get along good.
Marc:And I think we have nice conversation.
Marc:And I think it would be a nice thing to say, you want to come to the party?
Marc:But maybe people just think of me as some sort of, you know, like, he's that guy.
Marc:I did that show.
Marc:I did his show.
Marc:I liked it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just that guy in that show.
Marc:Maybe this is the angle.
Marc:Maybe no one had parties this year.
Marc:Maybe there were no parties.
Marc:Maybe no one I know had a party this year.
Marc:It's very distressing in a way.
Marc:I don't even know if I go to the party, but I want to feel like I have friends, but I don't know if I really have friends.
Marc:I think I, you know, I talked to a lot of people here.
Marc:I've got like two or three friends, but I don't, I don't hang out with them.
Marc:Maybe that's the issue.
Marc:Maybe that's the issue.
Marc:Maybe I'm not social enough.
Marc:Anyways.
Marc:Everything's fine.
Marc:I've got to write a script over vacation.
Marc:I guess it's officially vacation.
Marc:I'm doing a script for my show, Marin.
Marc:All the writing is going very well.
Marc:It's all a very exciting, collaborative experience.
Marc:The stories are all fun.
Marc:Looking forward to shooting my third season in January.
Marc:That's all going well.
Marc:Didn't buy gifts for anybody.
Marc:Maybe if I sent cards or thank you notes or did those things that people do that you're supposed to do.
Marc:And I'm getting a lot of Christmas cards, a few.
Marc:That was very nice.
Marc:The Richter sent me a Christmas card.
Marc:Greg Fitzsimmons sent me a Christmas card.
Marc:The Magical sent me a Christmas card.
Marc:Carol Leifer sent me a Christmas card.
Marc:So, you know, people are thinking of me.
Marc:So I have a little stack of pictures of people's kids.
Marc:Just a little reminder, a little yearly reminder of the path that I did not take.
Marc:There's both gratitude and sadness in that path.
Marc:that I have taken, but it is what it is.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Look, you know, I wanted this to be uplifting.
Marc:I want you to have a good holiday.
Marc:I hope you get what you wanted.
Marc:I hope your presents are exciting because no matter what anyone says, presents are fucking great.
Marc:Presents make it worthwhile.
Marc:Don't ever say like, I don't need presents.
Marc:You want presents.
Marc:Nothing better than opening a box.
Marc:And wondering, like, what is this?
Marc:Is this going to be something that's going to make my life really happy for a few minutes?
Marc:Or is it going to be just a misfire?
Marc:Nothing worse than unwrapping a misfire.
Marc:That's very sad, especially if it's from somebody that you're intimate with.
Marc:The intimate misfire is it's a harbinger, my friends.
Marc:That's a hell of a sentence.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:You buy one bad shirt, one bad sweater, one bad book.
Marc:If you just missed the mark a bit,
Marc:Maybe you can buy a couple presents.
Marc:Cover your ass.
Marc:Cover your ass.
Marc:So if the misfire happens, at least there's something there that is undeniably on the mark.
Marc:That's my Christmas advice.
Marc:Also, be charitable.
Marc:Be giving.
Marc:Spread a little love to people that you hate.
Marc:Try that.
Marc:I'm not good at that, but I'm working on it.
Marc:I saw Foxcatcher.
Marc:That's the fucking movie of the year.
Marc:Gotta be honest with you.
Marc:The tone was held perfectly.
Marc:The cinematography was stunning.
Marc:The direction, stylized and perfect.
Marc:The performances on every level, disturbing, deep, jarring.
Marc:The story, sparse but perfect.
Marc:Great movie, dark movie, deep movie.
Marc:Based on true story.
Marc:I'm not going to ruin anything.
Marc:I'm not even going to say what it's about.
Marc:I'm not going to spoil shit.
Marc:I'm going to tell you that Foxcatcher is a beautifully realized piece of movie art.
Marc:The whole thing.
Marc:Enjoy.
Marc:Enjoy that.
Marc:And right now, I want you to be ready to be uplifted.
Marc:Because God knows my intro didn't do it.
Marc:No, I'm a little nostalgic, you guys.
Marc:A little nostalgic.
Marc:We're going to talk to Melissa Etheridge now.
Marc:The first voice you will hear, I do address her wife, Linda.
Marc:And then you'll hear me and Melissa with occasional cackling and laughing in the background that might be Linda.
Marc:But here's Melissa Etheridge and myself having an amazing conversation.
Marc:Nice to see you both.
Marc:You're a TV writer.
Marc:What's your whole name?
Guest:Linda Wallum.
Guest:I'm rich now.
Marc:Now that I'm married.
Marc:Married.
Marc:Married.
Marc:God.
Marc:Can we say again?
Marc:Is that... Well, you know, I was never legally married before.
Marc:This is my first legal marriage.
Marc:Look, I've been through two.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I got no kids.
Marc:I don't know how that happened.
Marc:I must be a real asshole.
Marc:I have four kids and I don't know how that happened.
Guest:You do know how it happened.
Guest:There's four kids and I know of, right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I was sort of obsessed with the, back in the day, I was sort of obsessed with the idea of you using David Crosby's sperm.
Marc:I thought there was a genius to it, but I also thought that was a risk.
Marc:It was a roll of the dice.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:But it had to do with what I believed in at the time.
Guest:Did I believe that we are just, that we're so predestined by our genes that if I use the sperm of a drug addict...
Marc:But also a drug addict with one of the best voices in the world.
Marc:In the world.
Marc:In the world.
Marc:And you know what?
Marc:Like, I knew that.
Marc:I knew that must be what you're thinking.
Guest:Well, yeah, the best voices in the world.
Guest:And if you knew him personally, ask anyone who knows him.
Guest:He is one of the most amazing human beings you'll meet.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And his wife, Jan, was just so gracious.
Guest:And it was perfect because anyone else I was looking at at the time, you know, Brad Pitt, right?
Guest:I'm looking at Brad Pitt.
Guest:It's like, okay, I need to think in the future.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Is this...
Guest:And Brad Pitt wanted kids really bad.
Guest:Did you actually reach out to Brad Pitt for the sperm?
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:This was the dream.
Guest:But these are guys that were actually, and we would joke about it late at night.
Marc:But it also takes a certain type of guy to know that the child's going to be out there.
Marc:That's exactly it.
Guest:And that's what I needed.
Guest:I didn't want a father.
Guest:I wanted the parts that I needed that I didn't have.
Guest:And so this is what fit perfectly.
Guest:And I knew when the world... And I wasn't going to tell the world who the... I was like, that's none of their business.
Guest:Until it was the only time I was ever chased.
Guest:And things were... And it was, you know, who is the father?
Guest:And I said, oh my God, my kids are now... They're going to be at school and someone's going to...
Guest:Who's your daddy?
Guest:And so that's why I finally said, look, this is who the father is.
Guest:Go a ways and let them grow up now.
Guest:And they did, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And they know that he is their biological father.
Guest:They know that.
Marc:They're both biologically fathered by...
Marc:David Crosby.
Guest:Yeah, they're both full brothers and sisters.
Guest:And they're beautiful.
Guest:No, they truly are.
Guest:I'm going to show you a picture because it's radio.
Guest:There's the two oldest ones.
Guest:Look at them.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah, they're beautiful, aren't they?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Got the good parts of David.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, what did you learn genetically?
Marc:Anything?
Marc:No, nothing.
Marc:I'm still confused.
Marc:There's no angelic voices coming out yet or drug problems?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, but there they are.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:But is that because I'm raising a child in Southern California?
Marc:Right.
Guest:Or is that me?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What is it?
Marc:Now, have they met David or how does that work?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:They knew him.
Guest:Because it was important because my other ex, Julie.
Guest:The second ex?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, the first ex.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:That's not how you look at it.
Marc:Right.
Guest:The first ex, she had been adopted.
Guest:And so it was very important that they knew actually where they came from biologically.
Marc:That's one of the reasons we picked someone that you would know.
Marc:My brother's got three adopted kids and they know all the parents.
Guest:Yeah, because it's like you don't want that, oh, who's my, that weird dream.
Marc:The weird search.
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Marc:You want to send them out into the world to find someone in a trailer park.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:So I knew.
Guest:So we introduced them and always called them, this is your bio dad.
Guest:When someone says, do you have your father?
Guest:Yeah, I have a father and this is my dad.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:And they have a relationship with him or no?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And they have a half-brother, Django, and they see them and they're like uncles like your aunts and uncles that you would go see.
Marc:Well, that's nice that there's that honesty to it.
Guest:That's because it has to be.
Guest:Otherwise, it's drama and it's weird.
Marc:That's a good line to draw, actually.
Marc:The alternative to honesty is drama.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:I've got to act a little more... I've got to be a little more honest, I think.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:You're going to be a little less dramatic.
Marc:Honesty kills drama.
Marc:I know, but sometimes drama is, you know.
Guest:Well, that's where we got our best work, right?
Marc:I made a living off a drama.
Marc:Listen, I'm the only one.
Marc:Jesus.
Marc:Look, I listened to the new record, and I didn't know what I was going to get into.
Marc:I put it on.
Marc:I got it this morning.
Marc:Oh, this morning.
Marc:Well, yeah, because when we booked this- Because we give you lots of time to- Well, it wasn't done when I think we were originally talking, and I'm like, oh, I need to hear it.
Marc:So I just sat down, and it's all fresh in my mind, and I'm like, holy shit, she's gunning for it.
Marc:She's not fucking around.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Why should I?
Guest:No, I don't think you should.
Guest:Right.
Guest:If you still got the goods, fuck it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I can sing like- Oh, you said fuck, so I can say fuck.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yes, I can sing like fuck.
Marc:You can sing like fuck.
Guest:I can play the guitar like crazy.
Marc:And there's that edge to it where it's a little bit menacing sexually.
Marc:I'm thinking about these troubled women in these diners that you're walking up to.
Marc:Oh my God, Melissa's a predator out there.
Guest:What are you doing, girl?
Guest:Do you know what?
Guest:I just got the best news.
Guest:I've been banned in Barnes & Noble.
Guest:Already?
Guest:Already.
Guest:Not really banned, but they want to play my... We've got to deal with them where they'll play the CD in the store, but they won't play one song off the album.
Marc:Let me see which one.
Marc:Let me guess.
Marc:Ain't that bad?
Guest:No, you would think it would be that.
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Which one?
Guest:No, All the Way Home.
Guest:It's just the horny song that I wrote.
Marc:Oh, because you got fire and you're down there.
Guest:I know, down there, right.
Guest:I got fire down below.
Guest:I mean, Bob Seger wrote that in the 70s.
Marc:bob seeger that's interesting you bring him up because like if i think about it i never even thought about you just said that but there's a similarity oh i love bob seeger yeah oh come on i grew up with main street night moves the biggest thing in the world do you remember the first time you heard it it was like epic yeah that song is about six minutes you wanted to cry yes you're usually in junior high and you're like oh my god you know
Marc:Yeah, if it was at night and you were driving by yourself, you're just like, oh, yeah, man.
Marc:And he thinks back, you know, past the woodshed.
Marc:Aerosmith and shit.
Marc:Walk this way?
Marc:Well, I was listening, yeah, to the first Aerosmith record with Dream On and Mama Kin and all the, it's so good.
Guest:Wasn't it weird when they were so big in the 70s and then they got drugs and then they came back in the 90s?
Marc:Well, they got overproduced and then they figured out what bell to hit.
Marc:But those first few records, that first record is dirty.
Marc:So naughty.
Guest:It's really good.
Guest:That's the spirit of rock and roll is naughtiness.
Marc:It definitely is.
Marc:And I wanted to be rock and roll.
Marc:I feel it.
Marc:Yeah, it was a little uncomfortable.
Marc:Yes, good.
Marc:It was good.
Marc:See?
Guest:It was good.
Marc:Why not?
Marc:But it was weird, because I'm listening to the whole record, and then we get all the way through.
Marc:There's actually a little funky, almost rappy stuff there in the middle.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And then at the end, you did your sort of like, you're kind of like a middle-aged, I'm going to look at myself song.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You're going to throw one in.
Marc:and that's why i put it in the end this one's for all you ladies that have been with me for 30 years right but i'm having a lot of sex is not no isn't anyone else no i sure i am okay see so and that's what i want to sing about well i think that you've always been pretty straight well honest wrong word with that
Marc:Never been straight, always been honest.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:And honesty keeps the drama out.
Marc:So, but let's go back because I don't know a lot about your backstory.
Marc:Like what kind of music, we just talked about Bob Seger, we just talked about Aerosmith.
Marc:Like if you're sitting around or you're in the car, what do you go back to when you just want to listen to shit?
Marc:Like to get in the spirit of things.
Guest:Well, it depends on what the spirit is.
Guest:What'd you grow up with?
Guest:My parents were the first influence of music, and that was Mamas and Papas.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They were kind of 60s cool.
Marc:Right, because we missed it.
Marc:It's weird, because I'm 51.
Marc:Oh, I'm 53.
Marc:Right, but we still kind of missed the 60s.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was sort of, we got the overflow.
Guest:I was just, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Just at the end of the 60s where it was the Beatles were, I kind of came into it when the Beatles, my first 45s were very much Beatles, Stones.
Guest:Then Carole King.
Guest:I went down to Carole King.
Guest:And then I had, in the late 60s, early 70s, I had the London Symphony Orchestra version of The Who's Tommy.
Guest:Oh, right, right, right.
Guest:And that blew my mind.
Guest:And I used to sit and listen to that with my headphones over and over and over.
Guest:yeah and i had george harrison's all things must pass and you know just really you know so you got all the album coming in rock oh i love that stuff and but and i was playing in a country western band well i can hear that all over your stuff so i had to learn to i saw tammy winette conway twitty george jones george jones all those so that's that's in there
Marc:And you grew up where?
Marc:I grew up in Kansas.
Marc:What does that even mean?
Marc:I know.
Marc:I mean, it's like one of those places where I've been there.
Marc:I think I was just there, actually.
Marc:Where's the college?
Marc:KU?
Marc:Oh, no, the small, fancy.
Marc:Lawrence.
Marc:Lawrence.
Marc:That's Lawrence, Kansas.
Marc:That's very close to my hometown.
Marc:I was in Lawrence.
Guest:Yes, that's where people go.
Marc:Yeah, and I did some shows at a film festival there.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:They were very nice people.
Marc:They are lovely.
Marc:And then I went to St.
Marc:Louis to perform.
Marc:And I don't know what the hell is in Kansas.
Guest:That's where I'm from, is that whole... Kansas is... We're not the South.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I know.
Guest:And we're not the East.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're not Ohio at all.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Guest:And we're not like Minnesota and Chicago.
Guest:My wife's from Chicago.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:We don't have that.
Guest:We are just hopelessly prairie, bland, white bread, mayonnaise...
Marc:Well, yeah, it sort of defines it.
Marc:I mean, that's it's sort of a punchline.
Marc:I mean, Kansas is sort of like Kansas.
Marc:It's the Wizard of Oz.
Marc:I know.
Marc:But but also is incredibly conservative, incredibly sort of rooted in the worst parts of the Christian idea.
Guest:Well, as you would think, yet that majority is very thin.
Guest:Yes, they are a red state.
Guest:Yes, they are conservative, yet 48% is still very liberal and very...
Guest:artful and and they i mean that's where that's where brown versus you know topeka that's where that's where you know john henry came from we're known as you get into the debate yes we get in there and hopefully the the righteous will win exactly but it's also where the the first protests westboro baptist church right was that protest the original protests against planned parenthood and the abortion issue were all sort of there yeah
Guest:So it's a battlefield.
Marc:Yeah, that's exciting.
Marc:And was it that way when you grew up?
Marc:Yeah, I grew up.
Guest:My father was Republican.
Guest:My mother was Democrat.
Marc:So it was right in the House.
Marc:The debate was ongoing.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Active.
Guest:Active in the House.
Guest:And it was in the high school.
Guest:We had everything.
Marc:Were you brought up with religion?
Marc:No.
Marc:Yet I was.
Guest:Yeah, I did.
Guest:Yet I was brought up because my parents thought you're supposed to take your kid to church.
Guest:So they did until, I know, like just in case.
Guest:Because I might go to hell and we don't want them to go to hell.
Marc:Well, yeah, there's that thing where it's like, well, we're not really that active.
Marc:But why deny the kid the opportunity to get bullied by God?
Guest:exactly you know what i mean but what i found was music i found the choir so i kept going to church for the music for the music yeah and then and got really involved in the youth because there's you know there's all that christian youth i started writing christian music in high school absolutely well hopefully like maybe in five or six years even trying to record that shit let's do it
Marc:i'm ready i'm ready to take that on how you're holding your hand up i'm ready i got the spirit within me so you start you wrote some jesus songs yes oh hell we i'd like to hear the jesus i know they're really sweet no there's one called there's love in this place that was really it was more of a it was more of a youth not so much a jesus song as it was you know well they're never quite jesus songs are they
Marc:Like even the Jesus music now, it's sort of like, I get what they're talking about.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When they say him, I know what they're talking about.
Marc:I get the message.
Marc:But what did your dad do?
Marc:He was a high school teacher.
Marc:Republican high school teacher of what?
Guest:Well, he was actually hired because he was the coach.
Guest:He's the coach of the basketball team, and they let him teach something.
Guest:He was almost illiterate, I believe.
Guest:Right.
Guest:No, because he could barely spell.
Guest:That's the price they pay, right?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:So it's small town.
Guest:He must have been a good coach.
Guest:He took them to state.
Guest:He was a very, very good coach.
Guest:My father was very athletic.
Guest:Wonderful, wonderful man.
Guest:He was the one who used to drive me around to all my gigs.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When you were in high school?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Interesting.
Guest:And he would sit, he's the only reason I could play at the Parents Without Partners dance to the Knights of Columbus.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:Or the Eagles clubs or that sort of thing.
Guest:He'd get you in?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He'd sit there and he wouldn't drink.
Guest:He'd sit there and drink Coca-Cola all night.
Guest:And then he'd load up, we'd load up the car and we'd go home.
Guest:And you were in a band at that time?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you were just a guitar player or you were singing?
Guest:I was singing and guitar playing and I played keyboards.
Guest:I did everything.
Marc:What was the first outfit you were in?
Marc:What were they called?
Guest:Chuck Hammersmith and the Wranglers.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were there outfits?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Oh, I wish I had a picture.
Guest:There has to be outfits when you're the Wranglers.
Guest:Oh, wait a minute.
Guest:Did they give you actually the CD CD?
Guest:No, they gave me a download.
Guest:Oh, because there's a picture in the CD of the old band I was in in high school and we all had the outfits on.
Guest:How old were you?
Guest:oh in that picture i'm probably 14 15 and you're playing what kind of guitar i was playing an acoustic i was playing my ovation and then i had a uh did i have a les paul then i think i i think i did
Marc:uh-huh west paul uh like uh just a standard custom a custom the black one or no that's the one i have now it was a sunburst it was uh yeah oh it was great yeah sold it i'm so god damn i know like never sold guitars i know yeah but we don't know that no you don't you don't you know and then you got to scramble to try to get it back
Marc:But all right, so, because like this, on this album, there's some pretty dirty guitar playing.
Marc:Is that all you mostly?
Marc:That's me.
Marc:Really?
Guest:That's my Les Paul Custom on It Ain't That Bad.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I worked with my, I talk to my record company, I'm like, I want to work with some badass dudes, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because I think I can hold up.
Guest:to him and so they finally they were like okay we finally got this rock star and rock star he's done you know J-Lo and Chris Brown and he's bad he's bad guitar player or producer no producer he's one of these producer guys right so I show up and the studio is completely different now than they used to be used to be you show up in a recording studio and there's a big room where the band is and everything and then the control room is kind of small now the control room is huge and there's just a little vocal booth
Marc:Yeah, because they do everything on the board.
Guest:They do everything.
Guest:There's no real music.
Guest:So I bring my Les Paul and my amp in and he's like, what's that?
Guest:He's fascinated with it.
Marc:They didn't even have a mic for the amp?
Guest:No, they were like, we have to go get a mic.
Guest:We had to go find one and put one on there.
Guest:So we had to show him how to mic it.
Guest:I go into it with Rockstar.
Guest:Oh, that's his name.
Guest:That's his name.
Guest:He's named Rockstar, yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I should have known that, right?
Guest:Yes, and he's got the Versace gold around his neck, and he's looking at me, and I'm smoking with him in there.
Guest:He's like, this is going to be a problem.
Guest:He's looking at me like, whoa, and I'm smoking him out of the table.
Guest:I can smoke more than him.
Guest:He's like, whoa.
Guest:And so we start writing this song, and the name of what we're smoking is called A Sunny Day Honeystick, and so that's in the song.
Guest:I got a Sunny Day Honeystick.
Guest:Yeah, that's right at the beginning of the song.
Guest:And it...
Guest:and we're playing and so I go in there and sing and he's like he's like kind of telling me now sing he loves that he can act he goes you can actually sing and so I'm in there singing and he comes and he gets in front of the computer to do something after I sang and he said hey where's the auto tune and the guy's like oh I would never put auto tune on her voice and he
Marc:she's singing like that without auto-tune yeah so i had a real stuff re it was real good oh what's that oh this is a this is a honey stick oh that's it that's for you oh thank you no that's all right i i'm uh you know i have you see we didn't know oh no it's okay i i can appreciate your brain looks like it
Marc:Oh, dude, it's been 15 years.
Marc:I did my time.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:There's no judgment.
Marc:It's just that if I start that, who knows where I'll be in three days.
Marc:That's the kind of guy I am.
Guest:Okay, then.
Guest:I understand it.
Marc:But, all right, so you're in Kansas.
Marc:You're playing with the Wranglers.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Wearing your outfit, and your dad's driving you to the Knights of Columbus Hall.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You got a dream.
Guest:Yes, indeed.
Guest:That is the closest anyone's ever come to telling the truth right there.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And your old man's on board with it.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That was just pretty good for a football coach.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Do you have other siblings?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:How many?
Guest:I've got one.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She lives in Arkansas.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You talk to her?
Marc:No.
Marc:All right.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So one went bad.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:There you go.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:So anything I did was great.
Marc:We got one good one.
Marc:Whatever she wants to do.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:As long as she doesn't throw her life away.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:My father basically said, just be happy.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I was like, okay.
Marc:Right on.
Marc:So when did you finish high school and you went to the same school your dad taught at?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's not easy.
Guest:No, I skipped one class and he knew before the class was over that I skipped the class.
Guest:Oh my God.
Guest:But that is so not fair.
Marc:What were you doing?
Guest:What?
Marc:She was a friend.
Marc:I think we can talk openly about this.
Marc:40 years later, I don't think it's... That's the one you're going to worry about?
Marc:We just talked about David Crosby's kids, but you're afraid she's going to judge you on making out in a car when you're in high school during a class?
Marc:That's cute.
Guest:I know.
Marc:She's been dirty all along.
Marc:That's weird.
Marc:Since 14.
Marc:This chick was nothing but trouble.
Marc:Nothing but trouble.
Marc:All right, so that was going on.
Marc:Well, did your dad know about that?
Marc:Um...
Guest:I think it was, I don't, yeah, you know how they do, but they don't know, you know, they don't say anything back then.
Guest:The parents didn't know what to say.
Guest:The ones that, you know, it's just like, but don't bring it up, you know, don't ask, don't tell, basically.
Guest:You know they know, but why bother saying it?
Guest:Exactly, yeah.
Guest:So basically when I came out right before I left for Los Angeles, or Boston, I forget where I came out, but he, I said, Dad, you know, I went through the small thing.
Guest:But you came out at home to them first?
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:Yeah, before leaving, because
Guest:I'm leaving.
Guest:You should know.
Guest:I'm leaving.
Guest:You should know I'm gay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, well, I don't understand it, but as long as you're happy.
Marc:I said, cool.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:From a Republican football coach.
Marc:Indeed.
Marc:Score one for that side, I guess.
Marc:At least with your dad.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Right on.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So after you, you played in how many bands in high school?
Marc:Oh my gosh.
Guest:I went through the Wranglers, the Showmen.
Guest:All country.
Guest:Well, by the time I was about a junior in high school, I was playing in kind of that pop cover band where I was playing Fleetwood Mac and
Marc:Was that Rumors?
Marc:It was Rumors already.
Guest:We're the same age, so you're doing all that shit.
Guest:Yeah, so I'm doing all that.
Marc:Well, you graduated high school, and then where'd you go?
Guest:I went to Berklee College of Music in Boston.
Guest:My parents wanted to send me to college, and I said, no, just music school, please.
Guest:That's all I want to do.
Marc:And that's a good one.
Marc:I went to college in Boston.
Marc:That's the music school.
Guest:Yeah, and it really is up to you whether you want to get something out of it, because I went for just a few weeks, and I really wasn't into learning.
Guest:No scales for you.
Guest:No, I was writing songs.
Guest:I was wooing girls.
Marc:You just wanted to play.
Guest:I just wanted to play, yeah.
Marc:It's a real nerd school.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, there's some real noodle-ers coming out of there.
Guest:Yeah, and I actually wish I had at least stayed a year and learned a little bit more chops.
Guest:I really had to fight more.
Marc:But the weird thing about chops, and I think that you're speaking to it now in terms of being where you're at now and knowing that your guitar playing is in a place where you can hold up, is that it took me a long time to realize that rock guitar, blues guitar, it's all the same notes, and it's not about how sophisticated they are.
Marc:It's the feeling you can bring to them.
Marc:So when you can hold up, I mean, you can hold up.
Marc:I mean, you listen to Albert King.
Marc:It is what it is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:but you know it's singular and it's not that complicated so it's just a matter of like it's confidence and feeling right yeah yeah exactly there's so much of it's in tone so much oh my god what's my sound exactly so how long do you stay in boston though did you start playing in a uh out there yeah i started playing in a restaurant ken's by george remember the ken's steakhouse restaurant yes yes this one was his fancy adventure in cambridge
Guest:No, it was right across from the John Hancock, right at Copley Square.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And first I started playing the cocktail hour from five to nine.
Guest:Just you on the guitar?
Guest:Me on the piano, actually.
Guest:It was more of like a piano lounge.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And then I'd play Barry Manilow medleys and stuff.
Marc:Oh my God, it sounds like this is your period in hell.
Guest:Yes, indeed, that's exactly it.
Marc:You wanted to be a working musician.
Guest:Actually, when I got to Boston, I got a job as a security guard, and I was so freaking miserable that I took, I know, that I took my- Could you take a less gay job than a female security guard?
Guest:No, nothing interested me.
Guest:I didn't know how to do anything but stand around and- Did you wear a uniform?
Guest:A uniform, yeah.
Guest:Yes, in a hospital.
Guest:It was gnarly.
Guest:Mass General or stuff?
Guest:No, it was Deaconess.
Guest:The Deaconess.
Marc:Like in Brighton?
Marc:Where the hell is it?
Marc:Yeah, it was somewhere out there.
Marc:I didn't know.
Marc:Okay, so you're a hospital security guard.
Marc:You're playing Barry Manilow's songs in Ken's and Copley Square on the piano, no less.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:When did you lose your fucking mind?
Guest:Let's see.
Guest:Well, I got fired all of a sudden after playing there for a year.
Guest:A year?
Guest:A year, yeah.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I think they found out I was gay.
Guest:You think that was it?
Guest:That's the only time that I really think I might have lost a job because I was gay.
Marc:Took them a year.
Marc:I know.
Marc:That to me must have been an amazing display of restraint on your part somehow that you didn't.
Marc:By listening to these songs, it seems like most of the waitresses should have been in trouble.
Marc:Well, but that's the drama.
Marc:Remember about drama?
Marc:Look, nothing but drama.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You made your name on standing outside someone's house.
Marc:Yes, indeed.
Guest:So that's where it grew.
Guest:I was, you know, you're in the closet except for the, you know, the couple people that you tell.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You get to know and then you find they're gay.
Guest:And that's, you know, that's how it works when you're 18.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's how old you were?
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:okay so you leave cans i leave cans um i get a job for a minute at the copley plaza across the street and then it burns down and i took that as a sign yeah and i went back home to kansas i did i was like yeah and he went back to kansas to get to regroup to make some money because i was going to go to la because i knew that's where i was going to get signed and that's where it's going to make the money so
Marc:But at this time, were you writing songs?
Guest:Yeah, I started, but I wasn't playing them for people in public yet.
Marc:Were they songs that appeared on records eventually?
Guest:No, the oldest song that's on a record, on the first record, I wrote in Long Beach when I was playing in the girls' bars.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yeah, in Long Beach.
Marc:So, all right, so you go back to Kansas.
Marc:What do you do to make money?
Guest:Because now I can play.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:No, I can play.
Guest:So I go play at the Granada Royale.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:Do you remember that hotel?
Guest:No, how am I going to... It used to be the... Kansas?
Guest:No, it was a chain.
Guest:It was like an Embassy Suites.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And there was a lounge there called the La Veranda Lounge.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And so I went in there and played on the piano because I could do it.
Guest:And I got, okay, I opened first because that's the gig you get first.
Guest:I did like a happy hour from five to nine, whatever.
Guest:Your test gig.
Guest:And I opened for, I swear to God, Rhett and Scarlett.
Guest:That was their name.
Guest:Were they an act?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:They were a Gone with the Wind act?
Guest:No, they were like a club act, you know, that they would sing the songs.
Guest:And then eventually I got the job.
Guest:I got their job.
Marc:They wanted something more modern.
Guest:Maybe so.
Guest:So I did that, and I made money.
Guest:I lived in Kansas City.
Guest:I had a little apartment.
Guest:I went to the clubs there.
Guest:I got to know a lot of people.
Guest:And then I left for Los Angeles.
Marc:She was a ho!
Marc:She got around.
Marc:Are you taking all this in?
Marc:Do you have any questions now that she's here?
Marc:I just keep checking.
Marc:There's just four kids, right?
Marc:That I know of, there's only four.
Marc:All right, so there you go.
Marc:So you're a professional musician and a professional lesbian by the time you get to L.A.
Marc:Yes!
Marc:Woo-hoo!
Marc:You've got everything.
Marc:You can handle a guitar.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And you can handle that other thing.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Got it well in hand.
Guest:And I have an aunt who lives in Silver Lake.
Guest:Right here.
Guest:Actually, right here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:On Dahlia Street.
Guest:She lived.
Guest:And so I said, I'm coming out and I'm going to sleep on your couch.
Guest:Of course, my sister had just been out there and wreaked all sorts of havoc.
Guest:So they were not looking forward.
Guest:The problem.
Guest:I know.
Guest:Everywhere I went.
Guest:And so I went out there and I slept on a couch.
Guest:And the funny thing, I found out that there's a lot of people trying to make it in the music business in Los Angeles.
Guest:You found that out, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What year is this?
Guest:This is 1982.
Guest:1982.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So what's happening in music then?
Marc:What's around here?
Guest:It's all guns and poison hair.
Marc:So that was hair metal at the peak of hair metal.
Guest:As it's growing.
Guest:No, as it's growing.
Guest:It peaked like in like 84.
Guest:Right.
Guest:These were the bands that were just starting.
Guest:The Roxy and the Rainbow.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was right before they all hit.
Marc:So like the Fleetwood Mac thing was drifting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got here thinking that I'd see Jackson Brown and the Eagles.
Marc:They've been killed.
Marc:Gone.
Marc:They're killed.
Marc:Annihilated by hair and guitars.
Marc:Go back up to Topanga, you pussies.
Guest:Indeed.
Guest:There's nowhere for me to play.
Guest:And even if I got a gig, you pay to play.
Guest:You don't make any money in this town.
Guest:And I quickly was running out of money.
Guest:And I hocked my typewriter.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Because I didn't hock my guitar yet.
Guest:So you're staying at your aunt.
Guest:I'm living in Silver Lake.
Guest:I'm looking around.
Guest:I'm looking in the calendar section.
Marc:What are you looking to play, though, at that time?
Marc:Are you looking to play?
Guest:I'm, look, I didn't know how, how do you do it?
Guest:You get out here, it's what you do.
Marc:I didn't know what to do.
Marc:But you had your songs, but what was the dream, though?
Guest:I had a demo.
Guest:I'd made a demo of my four original songs.
Guest:With a band?
Guest:No, it was just me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Me, and, you know, I played, because I played the- Singer-songwriter thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I have my demo, and so you start sending it out to record companies.
Guest:Right.
Guest:They get a billion of these, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, and I'm not-
Guest:And I'm looking for management.
Guest:I'm looking for whatever.
Guest:And so I got the calendar section out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just went to live music.
Guest:And I called all these places.
Guest:Can I audition?
Guest:Can I audition?
Guest:Can I audition?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I finally, I called a place.
Guest:It was called the Candy Store.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was on Sunset.
Guest:It was the Coconut Teaser later.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's that place.
Marc:It's right there on Crescent Heights.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Marc:Boom.
Marc:It's right there.
Guest:But in 1982, it was called The Candy Store.
Guest:I didn't know anything about it.
Guest:I went down during the day and auditioned, played a couple songs.
Guest:And she says, you know what?
Guest:We have this little cabaret.
Guest:There's the dance part of the club.
Guest:But we have this little cabaret that we have live music.
Guest:And we don't pay anything, but you can come play a 20-minute set.
Guest:I said, I'm here.
Guest:So this is my first gig in LA.
Guest:And I go home and I show up that night and it's an all black nightclub.
Guest:But not only is it an all black nightclub, it is the all black nightclub.
Guest:Marvin Gaye is in there.
Guest:I meet Stevie Wonder.
Guest:Get out.
Guest:The basketball players, Abdul Jabbar.
Guest:It's the hot black.
Guest:All black guys, blind black guys, coked up black guys.
Guest:All of them, they're all in there.
Guest:oh it was amazing but I quickly changed my set list and did you know some I was a huge hit I was a huge hit you did it yeah it was great I would play there like once a week for 20 minutes and one time I got the door which was I think it was about 50 bucks I was like whew
Guest:But in the meantime, I had met a girl and gone down to Long Beach where I was in a club that there was a piano in the corner.
Guest:I said, hey, do you have live music?
Guest:They said, no, but do you want to come play?
Guest:I started playing.
Guest:They made a position where I would play from five to nine before the disco.
Guest:And that's when I started playing in the girls' nightclubs in Long Beach.
Marc:So you say that like there were many.
Marc:Was there a whole circuit of girls' nightclubs?
Guest:Well, there was...
Guest:a circuit yeah maybe there was about four or five in the and i'm talking long beach pomona uh-huh uh pasadena i ended up playing in pasadena right here yeah out um were these secret girl bars secret i mean it's the 80s we're not advertising right you know but it's word of mouth is how it gets around yeah so and that's just unfortunate use of words looking back at her wife word of mouth
Marc:made her self-conscious just to illustrate what's happening here okay but uh it's all gonna work out it is it's good for everybody that's what my mom says it all turned out this is like one-sided couples counseling right now you guys are gonna have the other discussion in the car afterwards oh no we're gonna have a great time no you have no idea this is great this is awesome you have any questions any other questions um i'm good so far okay i love where you're going oh
Marc:All right, so now you're like this strange kind of rock folk cab racing at lesbian bars.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:In Long Beach, Pomona, and Pasadena.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:That's a niche market.
Marc:But they're paying me money.
Guest:I get it.
Guest:Nobody else is making money in this town singing music.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yes, it is a bit of a niche market.
Guest:So I'm sure they all knew you and they were excited.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I mean, I would have 20, 30 people.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:That's a big crowd.
Guest:It was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, when you're, you've been alone in a club where there's one person, there's the guy at the door and the bar.
Marc:There's three people not talking to each other.
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, so what happened was the, the one bar in Pasadena, the,
Guest:I would play on Sunday nights and these girls would come in after their soccer game.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:So they wouldn't play soccer.
Guest:In softball season.
Guest:No, it's perfect.
Marc:No, it's absolutely the truth.
Marc:There's no field hockey out here.
Marc:So I guess you'd have to be in Boston for the field hockey players.
Guest:Yes, no.
Guest:So this was just the soccer girls.
Guest:And they, one of their, I think she was the coach, but she was a straight woman.
Guest:She was straight.
Guest:And she was married to somebody in the music business.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So it's a soccer team coach married to somebody in the music business.
Marc:The questionable straight woman married to the guy in the music business that doesn't know she's at the club.
Right.
Guest:anyway no they brought her down yeah and she eventually brought him to he became he was my manager for 30 years really yeah i just recently changed management last year but he was the guy he had managed bread and i mean he was legitimate yeah he was legitimate in the business yeah i remember bread's greatest hits was a popular a track in the station wagon when i was a kid guitar man was a guitar man
Guest:Baby I'm a Wanchu, Guitar Man.
Marc:Yes, Baby I'm a Wanchu.
Marc:I don't remember the other ones.
Marc:Those are the big two.
Guest:I found a diary underneath.
Guest:Oh, he had a billion hits.
Guest:He had a billion hits.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, is that theirs too?
Guest:Oh my God, that's theirs, yes.
Guest:That guy.
Guest:That guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But that shit was over.
Guest:That shit was done.
Guest:And he had, you know, he had left to go, you know, work up his end now.
Guest:So he was a manager in Pasadena trying to.
Guest:But he was inbred?
Marc:No, no, no.
Marc:He just managed.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:No, no, no.
Marc:So he made a fortune, that guy.
Guest:Yeah, he made a fortune, but didn't get part of the publishing.
Guest:But anyway.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, because he was just manager.
Guest:And now they weren't working.
Guest:So he wasn't making any work.
Marc:Oh, the publishing's where it's at.
Guest:Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:So then he doesn't want to come see me, doesn't want to come see me.
Guest:Finally, his wife's like, no, you got to come down to see her.
Guest:He came to see me, signed me right there.
Guest:He starts, instead of taking me out of the clubs because I was already had my little niche market going, making some money.
Guest:He starts bringing record company executives to the gay clubs to see me.
Guest:so for five years smart smart but it takes five years everyone in town saw me everybody you know again and again again over and over and over and i would get all the way up to you know the top of warner brothers or the or virgin records or emi all of them with what though with what exactly let's see they they heard uh they heard like the way i do yeah that i was doing that but they had a picture you yeah this is 1983 yeah how
Marc:How are we going to... What band behind her?
Guest:What are we going to do with this?
Guest:And this is 1983 to four when it's... Hard sell.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's not easy.
Guest:And they don't hear the hit songs.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And at that point, I imagine A&R, they're starting to lose their vision.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I think it was one of those periods where no one knew how to pick a hit because a lot of people were out of whack with what was happening.
Marc:Totally.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Totally, totally, totally.
Guest:So five years.
Guest:So it takes a long time until finally...
Guest:A guy who was a producer who knew blah, blah, blah, blah, brings Chris Blackwell of Island Records down.
Guest:Chris Blackwell is the English dude, made all his money in Jamaica, brought Bob Marley to the world, U2, Robert Palmer, really cool independent record label.
Guest:He walks in, he hears four songs and goes, why aren't you signed yet?
Guest:He was like, what's wrong with everybody?
Guest:This is obvious.
Guest:And signed me right there.
Marc:you know, made the first record.
Marc:Because he was outside the box already, just by the nature of the, he was doing more Ruth music, world music, and like he knew he had a marketing machine in place for stuff that was, you know, not.
Marc:Unusual.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And that was the deal.
Marc:That was it.
Marc:Boom, done, first record.
Marc:And then, you know, they put you with a band?
Guest:oh you want to okay well well he kind of signs me and then runs away because that's what he does he goes away and i'm like here i am also and so yeah and so now i've got to make my first record well i don't have a band so i i'd done a few demos and knew a few musicians so i called him up and said hey let's get together make this record and my manager puts me with this producer that he knows from northern california named uh jim gaines he had done
Guest:like Steve Miller Band, and a little bit of Journey, a little bit of, so.
Guest:Big, those were big.
Guest:Those were big then, yeah.
Guest:So I make this album, I go up there and make this album with him.
Guest:Big production though, huh?
Guest:But it's a big production, and it's all the big production, and he put my little voice on top, and so I made this whole record, and I came and I played it for Chris Blackwell, and he goes, well, Melissa, I really have to tell you, I really hate this record.
Guest:I was like, oh.
Guest:That's it, it's over.
Guest:Done, my career's over.
Guest:And he just didn't know what to do, and the guys I'd been working with, my musicians, they called me and said, look, we've been to the bar, we see what you can do.
Guest:That's what Chris Blackwell wants.
Guest:In the meantime, I had taken pictures for the album cover, and if you know of the first album, the photo of me in the leather jacket kind of jumping up, he actually had that photo blown up, sent to the studio,
Guest:put on the thing he said make this record yeah he said make the record that fits this photo right and so he gave us four days yeah so i made that whole first record based on on that yes on that picture and and four days yeah
Marc:But that was just sort of like being supported by these dudes that understood what you could do.
Marc:They knew it was a lot.
Marc:And just kept it straight.
Guest:That's what it was, yeah.
Marc:Or kept it who you are.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Not straight.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that got a lot of attention, the first record.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:it charted underground it was yeah i didn't have a big you know hit it was bring me some water you know it was the first that people who were really into music right it was these great radio stations back then there was a great radio station here in la yeah um that went away a couple years later but it was there was just a it was a really kind of a tracy chapman came out at the same time it was a it was a kind of a renaissance in music sorry so now you're on the radar yes you're a real deal yeah now you gotta deliver the goods yeah so the second album
Marc:Same situation?
Guest:Yes, same band, same guys.
Guest:I had written the songs.
Guest:I was making the second album when I was nominated for a Grammy for the first in the rock female category.
Marc:And at that time, though, you were sort of a singular voice.
Marc:And you still are, really, for a female rock.
Marc:In my mind at that time, there had not been someone with that much earnestness and balls, for lack of a better word.
Marc:and swagger yeah yeah yeah then then you so i'm sure there are a lot of people going like what the fuck who's this chick with the guitar yeah i mean there was some punk rock stuff going on yeah but it was very different i didn't fit in any of those categories this is more like american kind of you know respecting the roots you know what i mean like bruce was you know my guy right it was always what would bruce do yeah to the whole thing yeah
Marc:What would he do generally?
Guest:Well, it's like, you know.
Marc:Where's Clarence?
Marc:Yeah, right.
Guest:It's funny.
Guest:I almost, I wanted a saxophone player and I went, that's too much.
Guest:Then I'm just, there's a girl.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Were you meeting these guys at this time?
Marc:Like after your first record?
Guest:After my first record, I did meet Bruce Springsteen.
Guest:The first time I met him was at Dan Tana's, you know?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm sitting at the bar waiting for a table, I hope.
Marc:A woman.
Guest:Might as well throw a girl in.
Guest:Some girl.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm sitting at the bar and I look across to the door and Bruce Springsteen has walked in and he's picking up his to-go order I'm like oh fuck that's Bruce Springsteen oh my god so I'm sitting there and he looks across and recognizes me that was my brain exploded and he looked at me and he said and he waved and smiled and he kind of motioned me to come over I was like fuck
Guest:And so I go over there and he's like, how you doing?
Guest:I'm just getting some chow.
Guest:I'm going to take it back to the shack.
Guest:He's living in Beverly Hills, a huge place.
Guest:And he says, who was the, one of his guitar, one of his players, and I can't remember the name.
Guest:Was it Danny?
Guest:He had shown him my album and he knew and he'd just seen when I was on the Grammy Awards.
Guest:And so he, that was a big moment.
Guest:And I actually talked to him a lot and we ended up performing.
Guest:He played on my Unplugged in 94.
Guest:He came on and we did Thunder Row.
Guest:so yeah huge dreams huge dream comes true that's all coming true so okay so you do two more records before the huge record yeah I do I make three records and then I'll do okay they all do just fine and the third record was kind of just a little bit less so I got that scared kind of oh my god what am I doing yeah and I and so why do you think that happened
Guest:Well, the third record came out in 1990.
Guest:Everything's changing again.
Guest:Everything's changing.
Guest:Music, business, grunge.
Guest:All of a sudden, it's Nirvana.
Guest:Right.
Guest:All of a sudden, it's Soundgarden, and it's Guns N' Roses, and this sort of rock and roll as this crazy heroine, whatever that was, that grunge thing, Seattle thing.
Marc:A little chaotic, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, it was.
Marc:But still, you know, it's weird, though, because in defense of...
Marc:Like, I'm going to do it publicly, but Pearl Jam was about as straight ahead as you could be.
Marc:So like, you know, whatever Nirvana and the grunching was doing, whatever chaos and pushing the envelope was going on there, still like Pearl Jam 10.
Marc:It was amazing.
Marc:I mean, you know, that was straight up.
Marc:So it was still there.
Guest:yeah yeah yeah so and i recognize that in them yet this was seattle and they were now calling it alternative right and i just missed the alternative boat so i'm not alternative you're a mister of boats you're a professional mister of boats i am and so i'm not alternative so i'm not played on k-rock right i'm and i'm kind of floating out there my third album kind of and and
Guest:I actually started working with like some, there were these new things called loops or these, you know, what they do now, how they make loops and create songs from other songs now.
Marc:Oh, right, right, sampling.
Guest:Yeah, sampling.
Guest:I don't know, I couldn't think of that.
Guest:sampling so i i tried a couple samples and i was kind of experimenting on the third album right and and i look back and i love so much about the third album it was kind of experimental for me but i saw a ship going away and i went wait a minute wait a minute so i said okay i better get back to what i know and love and do and that's blues rooted rock and roll right right and so i picked up my guitar and put boom
Marc:and i started i'm the only one i'm like that's that's the anchor of this album is going to be that feeling and it's just going to be rocking yeah why why fuck with that yeah exactly the whole time exactly and also like because you know in the tradition of like you know seeger or even petty to a certain degree i mean they're there it's interesting that you say you experimented but i could hear in your voice you're like i was desperately trying yes to to lock in with whatever the fuck was going on yes
Marc:Because I wasn't going away.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because I needed to do this and want to do this and I'm not done.
Marc:I'm so not done.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then you did it.
Guest:Boom.
Guest:Nailed it.
Guest:And at the same time, I'm getting enough notoriety that people are now asking me personal questions.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:So the third album, and I obviously had this underground lesbian following.
Marc:They knew.
Guest:Everybody knew.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It was, again, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, though.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it started, I finally did an interview with this guy for my third album.
Guest:It was during the third album run.
Guest:And it was for a music magazine.
Guest:And he, I did my talk where I would use no pronouns, you know, they, my partner, whatever.
Guest:And he changed all my pronouns to my boyfriend.
Marc:Oh my God.
Guest:He did.
Guest:And I lost my mind and I said, I have to come out because now everyone's going to think I'm lying and that's the last thing I want to do.
Marc:Did you, would you give that guy a piece of your mind?
Guest:No, back then it was like, you know, but it was just, but it bugged me enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Maybe you ought to thank that guy.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:It pushed me out there.
Guest:It's like, look, this is what I'm afraid of.
Marc:I'm afraid that people are going to... You're afraid that your lesbian following is going to be saying that she's a sellout.
Guest:That I wasn't being honest.
Guest:Yes, that I was being a sellout.
Guest:And it wasn't worth it at all.
Guest:So I decided to come out.
Guest:I didn't know how.
Guest:I thought I was going to do it on Arsenio Hall.
Guest:So I knew my fourth album.
Guest:I'm putting that out and I'm going to...
Guest:And in the meantime, I'm doing work, political work, with a lot of gay and lesbian groups that help get Bill Clinton elected.
Guest:And they have this inauguration ball, and it's the most fun because it's all the gay people, of course.
Marc:I was there for that.
Marc:That was crazy that weekend or whatever it was.
Marc:Yeah, 93.
Marc:The first inauguration.
Guest:January 93.
Guest:It was wild because we had not been in the White House for a long time.
Marc:And it just was like...
Marc:Hollywood, man.
Marc:It was crazy.
Marc:Crazy.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Because my buddy worked for Clinton at the time, and I went down there, and Chuck Berry played at one of the inaugural balls.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:And who else?
Marc:I met Chuck Berry.
Marc:Rock and roll was back in the White House.
Marc:It was crazy.
Marc:We were there.
Guest:And us gays were being gays, and we were allowed to be part of the party.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so I came out at the inaugural ball there with everyone.
Guest:I was like, of course.
Guest:On stage?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm gay.
Guest:Well, it was just a big party, and there was a microphone.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:You just stepped up and like, hey, but Franklin's information.
Guest:Well, Katie Lang had said some things, and there was a couple other people there, and she was out.
Guest:She had just come out a few months before that.
Marc:What's she up to?
Guest:She does her kind of Tony Bennett thing and sing.
Marc:I haven't seen her in a long time.
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Marc:So she's already gay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now the pressure's on, and you just take the mic.
Marc:Boom, so I come out.
Marc:What'd you say exactly?
Guest:Oh, I said, well, she introduced me, Melissa Etheridge, and I come out, yay, and everyone's screaming, hollering, because it's one thing that I'm just even there supporting them.
Guest:And then I'm like, oh, I just want to say I'm just so proud to be a lesbian.
Yeah.
Guest:Went nuts.
Marc:It's done.
Marc:Over.
Marc:Did you feel different?
Guest:Oh, I did.
Guest:I walked.
Guest:It was like a match lit.
Guest:It's like, now you're on a journey.
Guest:Here you go.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's all out.
Guest:Boom.
Guest:In the press, it was like, close inauguration, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:And there's a little tiny, and Melissa Etheridge came out as a lesbian.
Guest:It's still under the radar.
Guest:It's under there.
Guest:I missed the big boat.
Guest:Still not a hit record there.
No.
Guest:But it became the thing that everybody talked about when I did.
Guest:So all of a sudden my publicity went from I'm a rock and roller playing to she says she's a lesbian.
Guest:And then everyone wanted to talk to me.
Guest:All of a sudden I'm doing the morning shows.
Guest:All of a sudden I'm doing, all of a sudden.
Marc:And this is coinciding with the fourth album.
Guest:Come to my window, yeah.
Guest:Come to my window.
Marc:So it's all.
Marc:Just whoosh.
Marc:It just went crazy.
Marc:And it must have been a relief in terms of just even performing that you could enter a situation that transparent and just push whatever you wanted to do.
Marc:Just be there.
Marc:And I tried.
Guest:It was like, I'm not going to sit and go, I'm a lesbian.
Guest:I'm just going to be myself.
Guest:And if they want to talk about it, they can bring it up.
Guest:Great.
Guest:Fine.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But what started happening is every gay person everywhere came out to me.
Yeah.
Guest:They still do.
Guest:They still do.
Guest:Everybody.
Marc:Well, the idea of wanting to be heard and wanting to be public and finding a way to do that because it seems to me mostly employers and family, it's so frightening for everybody still.
Marc:Even in the climate that is fairly embracing, it's got to be 80, 90% more embracing than it is now.
Marc:Oh, yes, yes.
Guest:When I see kids now who are openly like 18, 19 that are just like...
Guest:leave oh god to not go through those years and and back when the only place you can meet someone is a place where you had to drink and of course you were drinking to get your courage up because you here you are doing this bad thing and it just leads to oh it's leads to bad people but yeah when you're 18 those are some great relationships drinking at a gay bar because you can't go anywhere else you might get into trouble oh
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Possibly.
Marc:You might be in an age-inappropriate situation with an old pervert.
Marc:Oh, I know.
Marc:That's how your generation learned.
Guest:I know.
Guest:That's how we learned.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:You know, there's nothing wrong with that hard-earned wisdom if you live through it.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:All right, so that album's huge.
Marc:Makes you a superstar.
Marc:And then you do a few other records.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you're just kicked in the teeth.
Marc:Kicked in the teeth.
Marc:By life.
Guest:Life.
Guest:That's what happened.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:That's the crazy thing about being famous.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's...
Guest:I believe that the whole purpose of life is to kind of get your teeth kicked in and see how much you can, how high you can go.
Guest:I've had enough.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it means just think of what you're, you're, you're banking away.
Guest:I mean, some people, they call it karma.
Guest:I don't quite believe in the whole karma thing.
Guest:You believe in conditional karma?
Guest:No, I believe in we're all doing this and we're trying to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Not have to come back and do it anymore.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And so the opportunity to do it on such a high level and kind of go through big things.
Guest:When you're famous, you have the opportunity to really transform some stuff for a lot of people.
Guest:Or get the points.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Karma points.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there you go.
Guest:So you did the gay thing.
Guest:So I did the gay thing, yes.
Guest:And-
Guest:Yes, it was horrible to have a breakup in public.
Guest:Yes, it was horrible to feel like I let down a whole community.
Guest:Because here I was regarded as this, there's this perfect relationship.
Guest:I'm out.
Guest:We have children.
Guest:That about killed me when I thought, really, we're going to divorce.
Guest:And I've just shown the world what a gay family looks like.
Guest:And now we're going to, that just about, that broke my heart more than even really losing the relationship because I really needed to be out of that relationship.
Guest:Right.
Marc:but just that i felt like i let down so many people and i just became tabloid was ah that was that was difficult but also but in retrospect you must it must be heartening to know that it also showed that i mean what are you guys supposed to you like the pressure's on you it's like you can't you know you have to be the perfect fan like if you're going to be gay and out and have kids and have a family perfect you better be perfect yeah
Marc:It's like middle class American conservative bullshit, and the fact is that everybody goes through breakups and drama and bullshit.
Guest:Yes, 51% of us, yes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And thank God, because I learned so much.
Guest:I went through it and learned so much.
Guest:And so then when I get cancer later, after I go through all this breakup and I go down, I'm eating like shit, and I'm just really- Did you feel that from the gay community, though?
Guest:Did you actually- No, they felt sorry for me, mostly.
Guest:The gay community was like, oh, because they know-
Marc:but how does anyone think of relation like the the the humanization of relationships on you know it doesn't matter what gender base it is yeah it is what it is yeah you know what i mean it's probably even harder sometimes yeah because you yeah making note no linda's linda's been in the business so long she's been the gay business
Guest:Well, that doesn't know the industry business.
Guest:She's so supportive, knows everything.
Guest:She's the easiest.
Marc:Right, but it's just not that easy.
Marc:You and family are easier.
Marc:From everything I've heard here.
Marc:No, but the pressure of that, of having to maintain something because it has a political momentum to it.
Marc:Without the human component, it's gotta be a lot of pressure.
Marc:But so you just felt like they felt sorry for you, but they must know in their hearts, it's like, what are they gonna do?
Guest:Well, it was at the same time it was me
Guest:and julie broke up and ann and ellen broke up like within the same two months oh yeah so all the and it was and they're both going back to men and it was just like the disaster it was like the lesbian party is over right you know everyone who was you know gay until graduation now we've graduated and they're all back you know but it's but it's but but on some level you must have known like most shit happens yeah
Guest:And, you know, it's my fault for being attracted to those kind that are like, you know, right there.
Guest:So here Ellen and I are, we're single, but now we're going out on the town and we're Sinatra and, you know.
Guest:Oh, good, good.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:We're like, hey, you know.
Guest:We're free.
Guest:Loving it, loving it.
Guest:Any other straight ladies want to try something out?
I know.
Guest:no we were done with that okay we went to you know so I was single and you know and the world was changing this is 1999 yeah and how long before like when did you first get diagnosed with the cancer that was 2004
Guest:Oh, so you were out there, and you were in your second relationship by that time.
Guest:Yeah, and she was gay through and through.
Guest:I saw her papers, everything.
Guest:I was like, yes, you are definitely gay.
Guest:The resume?
Marc:Yes.
Guest:When did it start?
Guest:Yes, exactly.
Guest:Who have you been with?
Guest:Oh, you've been with her?
Guest:All right, you're gay.
Marc:You've got to be gay to be with her.
Guest:I know, exactly.
Marc:Wow, I don't even know if I'm that gay.
Guest:Oh, great.
Guest:Now I'm getting warm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So, and I start, I kind of get disillusioned with my music.
Marc:Music's changing.
Marc:You did like three or four albums in this time.
Marc:Yeah, I did.
Guest:And really, yeah, I did Breakdown and Skin and Lucky.
Guest:Those were the three I was doing.
Guest:And I'm kind of like, okay, where am I musical?
Guest:Where's anyone musical?
Marc:Still selling okay?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, well, less and less.
Guest:Each album I'd say was less and less.
Guest:And they're sad albums because I'm in a sad place.
Marc:Yeah, you are pretty honest with what you're going through.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm like, here I am, I'm in my late 30s.
Guest:What is music?
Guest:What do I want to do?
Marc:Am I just going to play now?
Marc:What, what, what, what?
Marc:Well, I imagine the biggest trap to try to avoid is that once the record company and you get the, it's like you got a thing.
Marc:You just make that record again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Do it over and over and over again.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And all of a sudden, it's not quite... All of a sudden, music's changing.
Guest:And so I do my album, Lucky, and I turn it into my record company, who's... Lior Cohen's head of my record company at that time.
Guest:He's the head of Island.
Guest:He's the big guy.
Guest:He's head of Warner Brothers.
Guest:He's, like, head of everything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so he's all hit music-oriented.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So he...
Guest:After I turn my record in, he says, we have this song from this other band and I've never recorded anybody else's stuff.
Guest:It's always been my stuff.
Guest:And it nearly broke my heart because it was basically, look, if you don't, unspoken, if you don't do this song, which they think can be hit song, they're really not going to work your record.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So, and I listened to the song and it's like, and it's on my, it's on Lucky, it's called Breathe.
Guest:What song was it?
Guest:Breathe.
Guest:It was this band called Green Wheel that they, Green Wheel didn't want it because it's such a hit song.
Guest:They didn't want to release it.
Guest:They got all, you know, we're independent.
Guest:So they basically kicked them out, took the song.
Guest:Where are they now?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Gave the song to me.
Guest:Good choice.
Guest:Gave the song to me.
Guest:It said, we want you to do it.
Guest:I do it.
Guest:It gets some radio play.
Guest:It breaks my heart because it's not me.
Guest:It's like I sold out.
Guest:I felt I sold out.
Guest:I basically looked up to the heavens and went, okay, what do you want me to do?
Guest:And the next morning I found a lump on my
Guest:President went, wait a minute.
Guest:There's your next few years.
Guest:That's not what I mean.
Guest:And yet it was the best thing that ever happened to me because I stopped.
Guest:I canceled my tour.
Guest:I stopped.
Guest:My life, my whole life went over me.
Guest:And I unfortunately went on chemotherapy, which is horrible.
Guest:But it was a dose dense because I could stay home.
Guest:So it was like this...
Guest:nasty nasty horrible why do you why do you say that unfortunately like you in retrospect you would have done no yeah i i i'm that radical sort of health person that i i believe that chemotherapy is really a bad idea that the science behind it is we're going to kill every living cell okay but it saved your life no no no no no
Guest:Me changing my health habits saved my life because there's plenty of people who do chemotherapy and die.
Guest:Plenty.
Guest:From chemotherapy.
Guest:A lot of times, yes.
Guest:It's a radical point of view and a lot of people don't want to hear it and they think it's like you're blaming the person with cancer.
Guest:I say people have a responsibility for their health.
Guest:If they're going to eat sugar, which is pure acid in your stomach, if you're going to
Guest:If you're going to treat your body badly, it's going to break down eventually.
Guest:I mean, the degenerative diseases are that.
Guest:Heart disease, cancer, these are things because we're killing ourselves with stress and food.
Guest:I made that change.
Guest:I'm living.
Guest:Chemotherapy is an acid they throw in you, hopefully crossing their fingers that if there's any cancer left in you, it will kill you.
Guest:They don't know that it...
Guest:It does that.
Guest:So I think in 10, 20 years, I'm going to look back and go, oops, sorry about the chemotherapy.
Guest:I'm a radical on that.
Marc:But you had everything removed, though.
Guest:Yeah, I had the cancer taken out.
Guest:The surgery is great.
Guest:We are great.
Guest:The medical industry is great at getting cancer out.
Guest:Awesome.
Guest:It's the choices later so that maybe if it doesn't come back and it all turns into numbers, they've broken it down to like a science of numbers.
Guest:I walked away from that.
Marc:So you changed your life spiritually?
Marc:Spiritually, absolutely big part of it.
Marc:Like what did you do?
Marc:What was the first application of spirituality?
Marc:You said, no chemo, I'm going to change.
Guest:Well, I stopped my chemo.
Guest:I took five chemo and then I stopped it because I said this, and I called and I said, what percentage will this give me if I continue killing myself?
Guest:And I was in danger of having neuropathy, which is where you lose...
Guest:feeling in your hands i'm like this is my life i can't lose feeling in my hand forget it right and at the same time i was alone it hurt to hear things when i was like on chemo or see things so i would be alone in a darkened room for days and days and days and days and days and days
Guest:Just my thoughts.
Guest:And basically, it was like the biggest meditation ever.
Guest:My thoughts stopped.
Guest:I went through my life two or three times and the tape rolled off the reel.
Guest:And then I realized, wait a minute, what's this?
Guest:This is spirit.
Guest:This is the higher part of me that that noise of my life gets in between.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I was able to access it.
Guest:I imagine that's what, when the yogis climb up on top of the mountain, you go away when people used to remove themselves, that's what they would eventually find that's possible in our human self, that this paradigm that we're in, the busy work, the left brain world that we're in, doesn't let us see that spiritual side.
Guest:The avoidance.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you saw the spirit side.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was very clear to me.
Marc:And you stay in touch with that.
Guest:Yes, it's further away now, of course, because my busy left brain life has taken over and I'm back into the world, you know, doing all this.
Marc:Desire, guitar, money.
Guest:All those things, money, cars, kids, you know, all that stuff that you question, but that are the things that... No sugar, though.
Guest:No...
Guest:Low sugar.
Guest:Because I also realize that the absence of all this is not the answer either.
Guest:That we are made to run with that contrast.
Guest:And I do what is called a 70-30.
Guest:Everything.
Guest:I look at my plate.
Guest:and if it's 70% whole foods, whole grains, vegetables, fruits, blah, blah, blah, okay, then I can have 30% of whatever it is.
Marc:Ice cream.
Guest:Well, ice cream's a big, I actually don't, I packed away from ice cream.
Guest:But my sugar is probably a much healthier sugar.
Guest:I'm just in better shape than I've ever had.
Marc:You just deal with whole sugars, maybe fruit sugars, no processed sugars.
Marc:Yeah, no processed, yeah.
Marc:But you don't deny yourself everything.
Guest:there you go right exactly balance balance right and so what was the record that came out of the cancer oh well that was see that was when i was the awakening right and that was a very spiritual i went i actually called my record company i said don't even talk to me i'm going to turn you right i'm going to give you a record if you want to sell it fine if you don't that's fine too it really doesn't matter anymore because my music is about
Guest:And I made The Awakening, which is a part of, I wanted to explain through my music how I sort of came into this spiritual part.
Guest:How was that received?
Guest:It was the first critically well-received album that I'd ever made.
Guest:See what you have to go through?
Guest:I know.
Guest:It was like on the top 20, Rolling Stone.
Guest:Of course, it barely sold anything because it wasn't really where people understood me at.
Guest:And then the next one was Fearless Love.
Guest:I was like, okay, I'm going to take the spirituality and I'm going to put it kind of back into- Your pants.
Guest:Into my body.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, so I'm like, okay, I'm getting my muscle back.
Guest:People know me now.
Guest:I've been on the Grammys, bald, and that- That was insane.
Marc:That was like one of those kind of like, holy shit moments.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I'm realizing, for me, it was just a little personal experience of, okay, I'm not going to let this cancer get me down.
Guest:I'm going to get back up and ride that horse again.
Guest:And it went out into the world like a shot.
Marc:But that song, come out.
Guest:I know the opportunity.
Guest:That's what happened is I got the call and went, well, I don't want anyone else to sing that song.
Guest:I need to sing.
Guest:I have the opportunity to sing that song that I've sung since 1968 when she did it.
Guest:I have the opportunity to sing that song.
Guest:Peace of my heart.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Peace of my heart.
Marc:that song is just it's the quintessential rock and roll lady song yeah it's the best i don't know where she came from oh man you know when you really look back at those people and you realize how short they burned yeah and where where some of them were coming from it's like how the fuck did that happen yeah well that's why when i looked at that when i looked at all the ones i loved and they all died i went wait a minute
Guest:I have to make another choice here because I don't want to die.
Guest:I want to be famous and I want to do a good job here, but I don't want to die.
Marc:Well, that's the amazing thing.
Marc:I mean, I have to assume that, and maybe it's wrong on me, but you've made a good living.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And you've been okay since probably that Yes, I Am record, right?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And so it was really creative choices that you were up against and fighting for your life, obviously, and trying to reel in the libido occasionally.
What?
Guest:After a while.
Guest:Control it.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:After, you know, two alimonies, I'm fine now with, you know.
Marc:Is all that shit settled down?
Guest:All that shit has settled down.
Guest:And it's because of the kids.
Guest:You really don't want the kids to ever get involved with that drama.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And now like you two are good.
Marc:How long have you two been together?
Guest:We've been together four years.
Guest:We just got married in May.
Guest:Was that amazing?
Guest:It was amazing to legally.
Guest:It meant so much.
Guest:It did.
Guest:It does mean so much to get married.
Guest:Actually, we went to the courthouse in Santa Barbara, which is a beautiful courthouse.
Guest:And we walk in.
Guest:The guy's like, we said, we want a marriage license.
Guest:He's like, okay.
Guest:He pulls out the little, you know.
Guest:He didn't say something like, a lot of you types are coming around.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:i could tell they were like yeah all right here we go here comes some more yeah come on we have singularly raised the you know yeah the state treasury because we all got married but um probably not probably was factored into their choice i think so but you've been very you know vocal you know with in gay rights for like what 20 years now one way or the other
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When I came out, I realized that I got asked the questions, and I had an opportunity to say, this is what I feel.
Guest:And this is our position, and this is human rights.
Guest:Sure.
Marc:I know it's weird.
Marc:It's crazy what people get hung up on, isn't it?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I don't always, hardly ever understand it.
Marc:Well, do you want to try and sing?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:What song do you want to do?
Guest:Wait, can I do a new one?
Marc:Oh, absolutely.
Marc:Do whatever you want.
Guest:Do that one where I walk into the bar and do Take My Number?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This is Take My Number.
Guest:It's the second song on the This Is Me album.
Guest:It goes something like this.
Guest:Do you mind if I sit down next to you?
Guest:I remember you from school.
Guest:You seem to have a good heart.
Guest:Way back then you were gonna make it big But it's a divorce now with a couple kids Brings you back to these parts
Guest:Well everybody stumbles Everybody hits the ground No use running scared When those changes come around And you don't know what might Be waiting for you tonight You really shouldn't drive You've had too much to drink And you shouldn't be alone But all you're gonna do is think So take my number
Guest:We can take you home, yeah We can find a cup of coffee We can sit all night and talk But there's a diner always open Just around the block So take my number Or I can take you home
Guest:All those dreams that were gonna set us free.
Guest:What did we ever know in 23 about what we really want?
Guest:Everybody's got a fire It's always gonna burn No way to put it out All we ever do is learn And you don't know what might Be waiting for you tonight Oh, you really shouldn't drive You had too much to drink And you shouldn't be alone For all you're gonna do is think You should take my number
Guest:Or I can take you home, yeah We can find a cup of coffee We can sit all night and talk But there's a diner always open Just around the block So take my number Or I can take you home Take you home Take you home
Guest:take you home honey i can take you home do you mind if i sit down next to you i remember you from school you seem to have a real good heart
Guest:You really shouldn't drive You had too much to drink You should not be alone For all you're gonna do is think So take my number Or I can take you home We can find a cup of coffee We can sit all night and talk But there's a diner always open Just around the block Take my number
Guest:I can take you home.
Guest:Oh, take my number.
Guest:Honey, I can take you home.
Marc:Oh, yeah, that was amazing.
Marc:That was amazing.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Thanks for talking to me, Melissa.
Marc:Oh, it's my pleasure, hon.
Marc:How was that?
Marc:Did you cry?
Marc:I cried twice.
Marc:Melissa Etheridge, what an amazing experience that was.
Marc:I really just loved it.
Marc:Love her.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:Thank you for hanging out again.
Marc:Have a good holiday.
Marc:Be safe.
Marc:I hope you get what you want.
Marc:I hope you enjoy giving.
Marc:If you're giving, I hope you like that.
Marc:Just for what it is and not for how it will be received.
Marc:Because that's a sad thing.
Marc:When you give and you don't get what you're expecting for something back, one thing or another back and it doesn't come, and then you're like, giving's horrible.
Marc:Tricky business.
Marc:Gifts.
Marc:I hope it all works out.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:Get that free app.
Marc:Get that premium app.
Marc:We're putting a special, a whole episode for vinyl lovers.
Marc:A whole premium episode if you upgrade to premium.
Marc:I'm going to be doing more of that.
Marc:I've said that before, but I think I'm going to be doing more of that.
Marc:I don't think I'm going to play guitar today.
Marc:And I know some of you are really bummed out.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I can hear the disappointment.
Marc:We just had a song, though.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:I don't even want to go to holiday parties.
Marc:I don't even want to go.
Marc:Boomer lives!