Episode 56 - Scotland / Dov Davidoff
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:Whatever you want to call yourselves.
Marc:This is Mark Maron.
Marc:Thank you for listening to the show.
Marc:Thank you for coming on board.
Marc:Thank you for all the wonderful subscription donations and donations.
Marc:I'll be getting all your swag out.
Marc:Very shortly.
Marc:It was an overwhelming response, and we certainly really appreciate it.
Marc:I'm so glad that everybody's enjoying it.
Marc:I have to be honest with you.
Marc:Right now, I am in a hotel room in Scotland, Glasgow.
Marc:I don't know when you're going to be listening to this.
Marc:I know many of you keep track of my whereabouts, so you'll know that I'm not...
Marc:Here when you listen to it, but I thought it was important that I at least get something in the can from Scotland with my impressions of Scotland and how it went here.
Marc:I really couldn't find anybody to interview because I'm only here for like, when did I get here?
Marc:I got here Wednesday, so Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
Marc:For four days, I flew 12 hours.
Marc:I'm just now adjusting to the time difference and getting past the jet lag.
Marc:I've done most of my shows.
Marc:I'm doing one more show tonight.
Marc:And the only thing, well, not the only thing, but one thing I can say that I'm happy about in terms of my experience over here is this is really the first time I've come to another country, flown intercontinental, been in the UK or anywhere else where I have not felt like a complete outsider, like some sort of freak out.
Marc:that just landed from another planet and made assumptions that everybody was looking at me like I didn't fit in or that I was a weirdo.
Marc:Because quite frankly, I am a little xenophobic, but I also feel that way anywhere.
Marc:I don't know if it's a big revelation.
Marc:I don't know if this is a cathartic moment for me, but I can feel out of place in my driveway.
Marc:And I never really put it together, but maybe it's some sign of growth, some sign of evolution.
Marc:I'm personal evolution.
Marc:I'm not really sure, but I am very grateful for the fact that I came over here to Glasgow.
Marc:I was relatively fearless, and within hours, I felt very comfortable in the city.
Marc:The Scots have been nothing but pleasant, and as audiences, they've been great.
Marc:The audiences initially were very small.
Marc:I mean, I got here the first night, and I tried to catch up on some sleep, and
Marc:Then we went and did the show.
Marc:Todd Barry's around.
Marc:He's here as well.
Marc:So we go to the show, the first show of the festival, and it's in a basement in a pub called McFabs.
Marc:And there's literally – the place may be seated 30 people, and there's about seven there.
Marc:But oddly –
Marc:Four of them were Marc Maron fans from listening to WTF.
Marc:I have no idea the international appeal of the show until I recently found out that about 15% of our downloads are international.
Marc:And the great thing is, is that there were what the fuckers at every one of the shows I did here.
Marc:And in that first show, they were a bulk of the audience.
Marc:But the xenophobia thing, I just started to realize that so much of my discomfort, and I don't know if anybody else can really relate to that, that I just feel out of place no matter where I am.
Marc:It takes me a while to adjust, to realize that, hey, we're all people here.
Marc:It doesn't matter what culture we're from.
Marc:I mean, I feel that way with my neighbors.
Marc:I feel that way at any event.
Marc:I guess that's one of the reasons I became a comic.
Marc:But also there's the whole issue of when you go on the road that it's a different planet.
Marc:That has to do with self-abuse.
Marc:I have to be honest with you.
Marc:I have eaten more meat in the form of sausages and things that I never thought I would eat than I really ever am going to eat again.
Marc:I got here.
Marc:The first I was here, I get up.
Marc:There's a free buffet.
Marc:I get a complimentary buffet.
Marc:at the hotel.
Marc:And they've got sausages and things I've never seen before.
Marc:And of course, I want to eat all of them.
Marc:I just open up these platters, these steam table platters, and they have something called blood pudding or black pudding.
Marc:They have haggis patties.
Marc:They have sausage links.
Marc:They have the thick cut UK bacon.
Marc:They have something called lorn sausage, which is literally a square patty of what seemed to be
Marc:Deep fried sausage.
Marc:And I don't know what happened to me, but it was almost as if I had been given a license to do drugs again.
Marc:I couldn't have been more excited to shove what they call the square sausage, I think is what they call it, right into my face.
Marc:So I ate a little bit of all of this stuff.
Marc:And I'd heard about haggis and I never ate it before.
Marc:And I was still frightened of that.
Marc:I only took a little taste of that.
Marc:But the black pudding or the blood pudding, loved it.
Marc:They had beans.
Marc:They had tomatoes.
Marc:They had the mushrooms, the full English breakfast thing going on.
Marc:They had something called potato scones.
Marc:So I shoved all this shit into my face and I was sweating pig fat.
Marc:For two days, I was walking around Glasgow thinking like, God, are they frying food everywhere here?
Marc:And I realized it was coming off of me.
Marc:I was sweating fried fat.
Marc:And two days, I didn't even know my own smell.
Marc:I woke up thinking there was somebody else in my bed, and I realized it was me because it smelled so fucking weird.
Marc:Did that stop me the next day from shoving more of that square sausage in my face?
Marc:No, because what happened was I talked to a Glaswegian, and I asked them, do you eat this way every day?
Marc:Because I'm going to try.
Marc:I mean, if you guys do it, I'm going to do it.
Marc:I'm going to run with you.
Marc:And they said, no, of course we don't eat that every day.
Marc:What do you think?
Marc:We're fucking stupid?
Marc:And I'm like, well, how do you eat it?
Marc:Well, he told me like the Lauren sausage, the square sausage, which I looked up on Wikipedia to do a little research.
Marc:And I learned some things about it.
Marc:I learned that, you know, how it's made and what it's cut with.
Marc:It basically comes in.
Marc:It's like a brick.
Marc:of ground-up pig and whatnot with a little bit of rusk filler, which is a type of filler, and they also make a biscuit.
Marc:I don't need to – anyone can do their own research.
Marc:So he said what usually they do, it's sort of like a quick breakfast type of food where you order sausage sandwich, square sausage sandwich.
Marc:So you get the square sausage, and you get a potato scone, which is almost like a pancake or like –
Marc:a piece of chapati bread, and you put that on top of the square sausage, and you put that on a roll.
Marc:So I did that the next day, and I put mustard on it.
Marc:Then I talked to another guy, and I said, you know, we're talking again about the square sausage and about breakfast situations.
Marc:And he said, yeah, you put it on a roll, and then you put ketchup on it or tomato chutney or something.
Marc:I'm like, what about mustard?
Marc:He's like, oh, no, you would never put mustard on that.
Marc:And so I felt like an idiot.
Marc:And I had to fight the urge this morning to do it with ketchup.
Marc:I just can't handle it anymore.
Marc:I had muesli and some fruit this morning.
Marc:I've had enough.
Marc:But I do realize this about the road.
Marc:I haven't even gone to the gym.
Marc:I haven't done anything because it feels like a special world out here in the road.
Marc:There's something about being in a hotel room, being that displaced.
Marc:that you think it affords you some sort of freedom.
Marc:I had this moment this morning where I really understood how David Carradine hung himself while he was masturbating in a hotel room on the road.
Marc:Because you feel like, I mean, is that something you can do at home?
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:I don't think that's a hotel room thing, the hanging yourself from the closet while you jerk off.
Marc:I'm not saying I do it, and I'm not saying it even crossed my mind.
Marc:I don't want to risk my life.
Marc:masturbating but i'm saying i understand it you know it's like i'm on the road i'm a little dislocated i'm a little lonely i don't feel like walking around the city uh that i'm in you know i've already seen it i don't know anybody here i'm here to work i'm gonna hang myself from a door and jerk off i i can understand that that's all i'm saying
Marc:But getting back to Scotland, I am thrilled.
Marc:The audiences were great.
Marc:I did Scorching the Earth.
Marc:Some of you may have seen that.
Marc:That was the big divorce show that I put together after I went through that horrible time in my life.
Marc:And I have to be honest with you.
Marc:I think I say that too much.
Marc:But the Glaswegians...
Marc:were great, a great audience.
Marc:I don't know how many people were there, but I was nervous about it because it's one, it's a singular story that runs through a lot of painful stuff.
Marc:I had a hard enough time doing it in the States and I really didn't know how it was going to go over.
Marc:I hadn't done it in four or five months and I was to do it for, you know, these people in another country and I was kind of frightened and
Marc:And it went great.
Marc:And it was then that I realized that there is a different tradition to comedy here, that there is a storytelling tradition in the UK and that they are able to listen to that process, to the human nature.
Marc:voice of stories as opposed to I mean they can listen to jokes and I did a set at a comedy club and yeah they like jokes but they can certainly listen to a lot of setup they can certainly listen to longer stories that may not pay off as much as shorter jokes and be completely compelled by it which is so refreshing and so encouraging and it was a great experience I really think it was the best performance of that show I'd ever done I do think that has something to do with the distance
Marc:from it that emotionally I might be actually getting through this shit I mean I should be I mean Christ you know she had a baby for fuck's sake I mean I you know I mean what am I going to do can't hold on to what am I holding on to what am I going to sit around and think that she did that at me but overall the experience here has been great the the weather's been great I'm done with the sausage I've met nothing but nice people I have one more show tonight at the same place I started so it's going to be a nice way to bookend it
Marc:Back at McFab's.
Marc:Maybe there'll be nine people.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But all the shows were great.
Marc:I, oh yeah, ate at a curry place last night.
Marc:This is another lesson I learned about the UK that I had no idea.
Marc:I'm used to eating, you know, Middle Eastern food or Indian food in America.
Marc:You know, you order a kebab, you get one kebab.
Marc:You know, you order, oh God, what did I do last night?
Marc:I went to some, I guess they call it a curry shop or a curry place or a curry joint or whatever the fuck it is.
Marc:There's a lot of these Indian curry places.
Marc:So I go in, I order two shish kebabs and some pakoras, and they gave me three mountains of food in styrofoam casings, just like tandoori chicken kebabs smothered in onions and syrupy, sugary sauce and a whole box of pakoras.
Marc:And I just, I ate most of it.
Guest:You know what, maybe I will put a belt around my neck and hang myself in the door and masturbate.
Guest:This might be my last broadcast.
Guest:How often do you box?
Guest:I'm looking at about six, six days a week, five days a week.
Guest:So you go to the gym six days a week, and what, you hit the bag, you hit other people?
Guest:I hit the bag every now and then I spar.
Guest:I get headaches, so I'm not a big fan of being punched in the face.
Guest:It really is more of a deterrent for me than it is for some.
Marc:A deterrent.
Marc:Oh, the pain.
Guest:Yeah, like I get headaches.
Guest:It becomes a problem.
Guest:If you get hit in the head too much.
Guest:Yeah, and I think the guys who take to it, not unlike anybody doing comedy, it's not just about somebody's ability to think of funny stuff and then make people laugh.
Guest:It's the ability to kind of sit through the things that you would need thick skin in order to get through.
Guest:Right, right.
Marc:But are you a good fighter?
Marc:I mean, did you do it when you were a kid?
Marc:No, I'm not a good fighter.
Guest:You're not?
Guest:I'm not good.
Guest:I mean, better than, you know, the average guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you've been doing it for how long?
Guest:Years, just training, but on and off.
Guest:I mean, not like in a way that would allow you to really progress in a way that would... Right.
Marc:But that's all you need after a certain age.
Marc:What the fuck are you going to do?
Guest:Yeah, no, no, no, no.
Marc:You're not going to be a professional fighter?
Guest:No.
Guest:That's not part of the dream?
Guest:No, it's not part of my dream.
Guest:This fucking Mickey Rourke walked away from it all.
Marc:Yeah, what do you look like?
Guest:He walked away from it all.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He walked away from it all to do what?
Marc:To make himself a freak.
Marc:Do you know him?
Marc:Are you friends with him?
Marc:He seems to be the kind of guy you'd be friends with.
Guest:You don't run with that crowd?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Who are you running with?
Marc:I know you're a late-night Hollywood kind of person.
Marc:I see what's going on.
Marc:No more?
Guest:As a matter of fact, this has been what all 9 AMs were about.
Guest:It was like trying to create structure in an otherwise structureless environment became the objective.
Guest:It's like really trying to...
Marc:So you wake up at 9.
Guest:I really want to look at shit, man.
Guest:I'm trying to figure it out.
Marc:What shit are you looking at?
Marc:I mean, that's a big thing.
Marc:There's a lot of shit.
Guest:I mean, how are you going to render it down a little bit?
Guest:I'm just starting.
Guest:I mean, render it down in that, like, I don't know, it's like scratching through the walls of a prison with a spoon, you know?
Guest:It takes time?
Guest:It takes time and effort.
Guest:Oh, yeah, right, exactly.
Guest:You could have gone all the way with that.
Guest:No, no, time and effort.
Guest:And you've got to want to do it.
Guest:You've got to show up.
Marc:Well, I've got to be honest with you.
Marc:I've known you a long time.
Marc:I think I knew you.
Marc:I probably met you when you were just close to restarting out, like you did comedy.
Marc:You want me to move this?
Marc:Well, I was doing it, yeah.
Marc:I like an elbow.
Marc:And then you went into acting, then you came back.
Marc:So what are we looking at?
Guest:Well, early on, I started when I was doing 21.
Guest:It was the first time I did stand-up.
Guest:I was 21 years old.
Guest:And I was there.
Guest:I was in and out in some open mics.
Guest:And then I was doing this acting class stuff.
Guest:And I was doing a couple of plays.
Guest:And then, you know, you get involved with that.
Guest:It's not like I can call into the clubs and get stage time.
Guest:So it was just falling in and out.
Guest:Right.
Marc:I'm trying to figure out when I first started seeing it.
Marc:It was probably 1999, 2000.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Boston Comedy Club, maybe 2001, a little later.
Guest:You were already, people knew you, so I had seen you before that.
Guest:Right, but I'm just trying to think when I started seeing you.
Guest:You showed up on the radar, maybe, yeah.
Marc:Right, and when I first saw you, this is, here's a history of why I, and we've discussed this problem before.
Marc:A little bit.
Marc:I'm not going to do anything that's going to make you too crazy here.
Marc:No, I can talk about anything.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know you can.
Marc:That's what I like about you.
Marc:I saw you.
Marc:You had this laid-back kind of delivery.
Marc:You kind of almost talk like a black guy.
Marc:You made it feel like 1957 to 1962, and you were very deliberate and smooth, and then you were doing that for a while, and then I hadn't seen you in a while, and then you come out here, and then you're doing this frenetic, almost crazy, slightly retarded thing.
Guest:You know what's interesting?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But then I said to you, I said, what, you're going to do the retard thing now?
Marc:You're going to do the Mitch Fatale?
Marc:I mean, why don't you be who you really are?
Marc:And you said, maybe this is who I really am.
Marc:And I appreciated that.
Guest:Well, yeah, no, and you know, I really never thought about it like, maybe that frenetic energy came from a place that needs to be worked on, but I never thought about it like a character.
Guest:And it was just sort of going with the flow.
Guest:But I really wanted to write good stuff, and I feel like that was part of the 9 a.m.
Guest:thing.
Marc:Well, this is what I'm seeing now.
Marc:You've got some very long-form, smart bits that turn back on themselves, that are well-researched.
Marc:Yeah, and you're talking about your life.
Marc:You were talking about...
Marc:You know, like you did a piece I saw the other night about your father's funeral that I don't even know if it was a full comedy piece yet.
Marc:Have you been able to make that work?
Marc:No, some of it.
Guest:You know, the thing about communicating the stuff about the junkyard, which is why I started writing essays.
Marc:Let's not drop it.
Marc:Let's go into it from the beginning.
Marc:Like, this is about where you come from.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Now, you've got an interesting story.
Guest:Yeah, I grew up in a junkyard in Jersey for the most part.
Guest:My father was an uneducated Jewish business guy from the Bronx, kind of a hustler.
Guest:My mother was an intellectual hippie wasp from California, and she was involved in a commune.
Guest:She was very wrapped up in a commune.
Marc:Not at the junkyard, wasn't it?
Marc:No, it was a commune.
Guest:They would meet at St.
Guest:Patrick's Cathedral on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.
Marc:Where was the commune?
Guest:Oh, they'd meet at the cathedral in Manhattan, and I'm in Jersey in the junkyard of my father's place.
Guest:So they're separated.
Guest:They're divorced.
Guest:Yeah, but they lived in the same house for the following 10 years on separate levels.
Guest:It was a two-floor house.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:All right.
Guest:And there were people in the basement.
Guest:There was somebody else in the backyard.
Guest:You didn't know these people?
Guest:Yeah, I knew them.
Guest:Were they commune people?
Guest:No, because my father had nothing to do with that.
Guest:That's why it was so odd.
Guest:It's like, had we all been on a commune, then we could all kind of relate to each other, even if we're outside of the box relative to the rest of the world.
Guest:The problem was, I was trying to explain the commune in India with the spiritual guru to these kids in Jersey who thought India was a place in Queens.
Guest:And my mother was spending most of her money on freeze-dried food, building it into a mountainside, awaiting the inevitable nuclear apocalypse, for real.
Guest:Seriously?
Marc:And that was part of the Indian guru's plan?
Guest:Well, the Indian guru was a guy called Sai Baba.
Marc:I remember Sai Baba.
Marc:He's still around.
Marc:He makes Nag Champa, and I think he's been Sai Baba.
Marc:They've got a big cult.
Marc:They're in Queens now.
Marc:They're taking over all that.
Marc:They've got two health food stores in Queens, the cult, Sai Baba.
Marc:He's the one with the afro, and he wears the afro-orange robe.
Guest:But he was in India when I was there.
Guest:He's still in India, but his followers are.
Marc:His people.
Marc:So she was a Sai Baba.
Guest:It was a place called The Land, and Hilda was the spiritual guru at the time, but she was connected to the Sai Baba people.
Guest:Hilda, one name.
Guest:Hilda, one name.
Guest:I once asked my mother how old she was.
Guest:My mother's response was, Hilda was never born, and Hilda will never die.
Guest:Sure enough, Hilda's dead right now.
Guest:It didn't pan out, huh?
Guest:It didn't pan out the way everybody thought it would.
Guest:I love when that happens.
Guest:Yeah, it was very strange.
Marc:Okay, so your mother's living on the upstairs floor, your father's living on the downstairs floors.
Marc:You lived at the junkyard?
Guest:Yeah, basically it was a dirt road that connected.
Guest:It was across the street from the junkyard.
Marc:So this is a junkyard, meaning you had the flat cars?
Guest:Oh, yeah, we would crush cars.
Guest:We would strip aluminum from radiators with torches.
Marc:Stacks of metal?
Guest:Stacks of old cars.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, full on.
Guest:How many acres?
Guest:Like a lot?
Guest:Yeah, like seven, eight, yeah.
Marc:Now, your mother, they're separated.
Marc:She's got the calming thing going.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And your dad is just this scrappy dude that owns a junkyard, and he's got other people living in the house.
Marc:Borders.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Well, somebody came around.
Guest:There was a guy.
Guest:He was on the run from the cops, but not for a violent crime, you know.
Marc:For a nice crime.
Guest:Yeah, for one of your pleasant crimes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You forgive them for it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was not the bad guy.
Guest:He wasn't a bad guy.
Guest:Victim of circumstance.
Guest:No, I remember being very sweet, soft, sort of just the kind of guy that you would not feel would be a threat at some point.
Guest:The kind of guy that you could actually see putting up.
Marc:You grew up with a lot of probably cigarettes, trucks coming in, heavy dudes.
Guest:Well, sure, sure.
Guest:I mean, that's the junkyard, right?
Guest:Right.
Guest:I mean, the kind of people who are willing to work 365 days outside, you know, I mean, who...
Guest:I always remember the guy's hands, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But at the same time, it's... Yeah, I mean, there's a provincial kind of part of that life.
Guest:It's you're in a fucking... And Jersey.
Guest:And Jersey, yeah.
Guest:You combine it with that.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:Double whammy.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So this is you.
Marc:You're growing up, and then your mother... So you got your father who's teaching you the difference between cars and how to pull metal off things, and your mother's... Well, my father was a strange thing.
Guest:You know, I mean, he would teach me about business, and the kid was a real paranoid Jewish kind of... But streety Jewish.
Guest:I mean, I say in my act, but like... Everyone's trying to fuck you.
Marc:accountant jewish like steal your car jewish it's like right right those hustler guys i do a thing about that that there's a difference between the uh yes the uh what is it the what i used to say the the composer jew and the peasant precisely right right there's a big difference i got a little of both you know i got peasant jew thighs and i got the composer jew face and brain yeah um yeah no there is there is almost yeah i wish there was a little more i don't know that you need any more
Guest:No?
Guest:I'm done.
Guest:I think you've got plenty to go.
Guest:I was just reading that Gladwell arguably talking about IQ, correlates, and success.
Guest:I can't read that.
Guest:There's almost none.
Guest:There's almost none.
Guest:After a certain point of a kind of substantial intelligence, it's like up to 120.
Guest:This is The Outliers?
Guest:This is one of his books.
Guest:I forget which one.
Marc:So this is the one that basically says it's got nothing to do with anything but connections.
Marc:It's who you know, what school you go to, and which circles you run in, and how much you work in your thing.
Guest:Yes and no.
Guest:I mean, I think there's no oversimplification.
Guest:There's no luck.
Guest:No, I think they're saying there's an enormous amount of luck.
Guest:He goes about talking.
Guest:He breaks down Bill Gates.
Guest:He breaks down a number of people.
Guest:And the point was that had they not been born in that five-year window around that time in the Advent.
Marc:Okay, well, that's no luck.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Huge luck.
Marc:Huge luck.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:I got born at the wrong time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so now we know.
Marc:We got to the bottom of it.
Marc:You know, it happens.
Marc:I know.
Marc:What are you going to do?
Guest:It doesn't lessen your genius.
Marc:Yeah, well, thank you.
Marc:My friend always says, we're fucked.
Marc:We're in the middle of the shift of the paradigms.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're in the middle of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We're not going to get the benefits of the next paradigm.
Marc:Well, you never know.
Marc:Yeah, it could be a flaming mess.
Marc:You never know.
Marc:Banking on a paradigm is a little hopeful, isn't it?
Guest:You don't want to bank on a paradigm in general.
Marc:But certainly.
Marc:No banking on paradigms.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So now this is the interesting part about this story is that
Marc:Your father passes away, right?
Guest:Father died of AIDS.
Guest:Yeah, I was like 21.
Guest:But I had been living alone from the time I was 15.
Guest:I didn't want to choose between my parents.
Guest:They had moved out from one another.
Guest:Where did you live alone, in New Jersey?
Guest:An old house across the street from the junkyard where I lived alone.
Marc:So you're like, fuck you, I'm going across the street?
Yeah.
Marc:No, no, no, no.
Guest:It wasn't really away.
Guest:It was when my mother moved to Highland Park.
Guest:Here?
Guest:By New Brunswick.
Guest:No, by New Brunswick in Jersey.
Guest:And my mother lives on 10th Street in the village now in New York City.
Marc:She's a therapist, right?
Guest:She's an analyst now, yeah.
Marc:Like a doctor?
Guest:She got her message and then went on into analytic training for like seven years and became a full-on analyst.
Guest:I like the idea.
Marc:It's different.
Marc:You got the cult analyst and the junkyard.
Guest:Yeah, but when I left as a kid, my best friend was this Puerto Rican kid, so I spent a lot of time in Harlem, and his family was the ones that I was really close to, and it was just a very strange... Right, and that's where you got the street thing, so you got a good thing going.
Marc:That's why I was very unhappy to see you go the retarded route, and I'm happy that you're back.
Marc:Back on the path?
Marc:Yeah, you literally are, and I think you know you are.
Guest:Yeah, you know, I mean, again, it was never super conscious, but I feel like, yeah.
Guest:You were conscious when you would pull out your jacket and it all would end up on the floor.
Guest:Yeah, some of that was conscious, yes.
Guest:And when you go, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
Guest:I still hold my jacket.
Guest:There was too much clucking, yeah.
Guest:There was too much clucking, it's like.
Marc:Well, you do.
Marc:It's almost like a box.
Marc:I know what you're doing.
Marc:See, that's the one thing that always irritated me and why I'd get resentful is I saw you were killing with it.
Marc:But there was part of me that's like, I know this kid's deep.
Marc:I know he's smart.
Marc:And one time I outroed you as the thinking man's retard.
Guest:That was one of the funniest things I've ever heard.
Guest:It was.
Guest:And the crowd agreed.
Marc:And, you know, there was just part of me that says, I knew you were getting it.
Marc:You knew all the tricks.
Marc:You know, you'd stalk the stage until you calm them down.
Marc:Or you'd sit down and draw them in the other way.
Marc:I mean, you know, I appreciate all the attempts you were making.
Marc:But see, you just did that with your jacket naturally.
Marc:So maybe it is.
Guest:Maybe you're right.
Guest:I get a little.
Guest:I get half on, half off.
Guest:But I don't need to add the rest of the clucks.
Guest:You know, like I think there's a place in the middle.
Marc:What is that thing, that noise?
Yeah.
Guest:I don't know what I'm getting.
Guest:I'm not sure the way it goes.
Guest:I'm really not sure.
Guest:It's not like a Fidel thing where it's a full-on character.
Guest:It's like something that's like, yeah, I don't know.
Guest:No, no, I know.
Marc:Look, I know it's all part of the evolution.
Marc:Who the fuck am I to judge anybody else?
Guest:No, I agree.
Guest:There are plenty of people you look at and you're like, come on.
Guest:That's what you're doing?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Marc:Yeah, but see, now I think what happened was, let me see if I can read it properly.
Marc:You come out here, you had a deal, you had a thing, you were in a big movie with Mark Wahlberg, you did a few episodes of something, and all of a sudden after that wave kind of started to head towards shore, you're like, fuck, all I got stand-up.
Guest:you know again i never really it was never that conscious you've you've re and you like have refocused on i have refocused i've definitely refocused and i think yeah maybe it maybe i guess if you go and become if you had been offered leading roles in movie maybe you'd never go back and deal with what you would otherwise deal with on stage it's like you see those guys early on that were good stand you see guys like whoever jamie fox and it's sort of there was no evolution don't start singing stop there don't
Guest:I ain't got a voice.
Guest:Nobody's in danger of that.
Guest:I'll never sing.
Marc:They can only sing when they make so much money that they're like, I can do whatever I want to.
Guest:Now I can do whatever I want.
Marc:I don't know if I did this.
Marc:Let me do it now.
Marc:Give me a second for my producer.
Marc:My guest in the garage is Dove Davidoff.
Marc:I would classify him as a comic on the rise, as they used to say in the game.
Marc:He's an up-and-comer.
Guest:Can I call you that?
Guest:Yeah, I guess.
Guest:I don't know how we define these things.
Guest:It doesn't matter anymore.
Marc:It doesn't matter.
Marc:It doesn't.
Marc:It's like doing The Tonight Show.
Marc:It just doesn't matter.
Marc:Well, it doesn't even exist right now.
Guest:And it doesn't exist.
Guest:That's a good point.
Marc:I was a little disappointed.
Marc:I mean, I wanted to do it when Conan was there because I'd never done it before.
Marc:Yeah, it'd be fun.
Marc:Well, the way I see those things, it's just part of our job.
Marc:It shouldn't matter.
Marc:All these people, back in the day, you could fill a room or whatever.
Marc:But right now, that's one of the things we do.
Guest:It's one of the things you do.
Marc:It's one of the payoffs, one of the grails.
Marc:Yeah, it's one of the things you do.
Marc:That's like you hit your mark.
Marc:You've done a Comedy Central half hour, right?
Guest:Yeah, we have an hour coming out.
Guest:You produced an hour?
Guest:Yeah, I got an hour coming out in a couple of months.
Guest:Did you self-produce it?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:With Dave?
Guest:I left for yours.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How long ago?
Guest:Four months.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Marc:Okay, but you put the money in yourself?
Guest:No, I didn't put the money in myself.
Guest:I just did it with a company that's willing to finance it and then you share in it.
Marc:Oh, well, that was good.
Guest:They risked the money.
Marc:I don't think a lot of people realize this.
Marc:Some of the people that may be listening to this, at a lot of those hours, that TV has gotten to this point now where if you go to Comedy Central and look, I got the bread, and I got a guy with three cameras.
Guest:Will you guys sign off on this?
Guest:You can go do it.
Marc:I've seen some on there.
Marc:You're like, where the fuck did they shoot this?
Marc:It's unbelievable.
Marc:Did you see John Panette's?
Marc:No, I didn't see it.
Guest:I don't see any of it.
Marc:Where was this done?
Guest:I know.
Guest:Was that done on a cam, like on a phone cam?
Guest:Yeah, like a flip cam.
Guest:It's like, are you fucking kidding me?
Guest:We've got three guys in the audience with a flip cam.
Guest:We'll slam it together at the end.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:I guess it's safer for them, and then they get to see a finished product without putting up any money.
Guest:And then for me, it's better because if I'm confident enough to do it myself, it's a better split.
Marc:So let's go back to the junkyard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:These Russians bought it.
Guest:Russian Jews?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It was a consortium of Russian businessmen.
Guest:Did you have a choice in selling it?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I was a kid.
Guest:I was not a kid when they sold it, but I was older.
Guest:I was living on the lower side since the time I was 16.
Marc:You were on the lower side from the time you were 16 because your brother... You have an interesting story.
Guest:My brother's a really interesting dude who was a psychologist who had...
Guest:He'd gone to Nepal, learned to speak Nepalese, walked around, spent time with monks.
Marc:So he was your mama's boy.
Guest:In a sense, but at the same time, he used to compete in Brazilian jiu-jitsu submission tournaments, and he was a swinger, like a real full-on swinger for a while.
Marc:Swinger like with the women?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So he was a psychologist who spoke Nepalese and also did jiu-jitsu and fucked other people's wives in front of him.
Marc:Oh, yeah, a lot of people's wives.
Guest:Weren't you into that for a while?
Guest:He was real good at it.
Guest:I never had what it takes to really get into the swing game heavy.
Marc:You sort of dabbled in it, though.
Marc:Am I wrong?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Like anybody else, I want to find out what I got.
Guest:How does that work?
Guest:It works.
Guest:You've got to have something to trade.
Guest:You go in there with somebody.
Guest:With a girl?
Yeah.
Guest:what do you got to bring a girl people was like can i go along no you can't go you're just a guy going where do i stick this right otherwise it's like a guy showing up at a card game with no money like deal me in man i don't want to lose nothing just deal me in you know and you go in and it was a really interesting environment was much more peaceful as well it was well i think the the the i the the common maybe misconceptions that swingers are all these fat kind of midwestern
Guest:And there are places like that, but there are others where it's a much more attractive crew.
Guest:So you had a chick, I remember her, that was into it.
Guest:No, that was my threesome.
Guest:That was my girlfriend, my real girlfriend.
Guest:We had threesomes and many of them.
Guest:The current girlfriend?
Guest:But we did not swing, no, no.
Guest:No, the last one, right.
Guest:The last one.
Guest:You didn't swing.
Guest:We did not swing.
Guest:Swinging means that the other guy gets to bang your girl.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's not your bag?
Guest:That's not my bag, man.
Marc:That's not my bag, but... It's like that Lenny Bruce bit.
Marc:It's like, you know, I thought you said you wanted, when he talks his wife into sweeping with the woman, right?
Marc:And he's there, and they're all sweeping together, and she goes, I thought you wanted to.
Marc:And he's like, you didn't have to fucking like it so much.
Guest:All right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it's problematic.
Guest:It's a Pandora's box.
Guest:Is it?
Guest:It can be, sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did that happen to you?
Guest:No, that was never the problem with me.
Guest:So the swinging thing, you go and it wasn't your bag.
Guest:It wasn't my bag to trade off with somebody that I care about.
Guest:I'm not into that kind of thing.
Guest:I'm not that adventurous.
Guest:But it's just fun to be outside.
Marc:The best way to do it is have somebody that you're just fucking, you don't really care.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And they have a decent buffet.
Guest:This one place made a good ziti.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:So you take breaks?
Marc:You're just standing there with the buffet?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With your dick hanging out?
Guest:I would use pasta cheese.
Guest:I wear a towel.
Guest:I'm a gentleman.
Guest:I don't walk around naked like a buffoon.
Guest:I had a ziti and these other bras.
Guest:You make an eye contact with somebody and you could really shake it up, but good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, no games.
Guest:We're not going for a tapas and a trip to Six Flags.
Guest:We're going to do this, and we're going to do it now.
Guest:And I'm trading you for it.
Guest:And you don't have to explain yourself or anything.
Guest:No, it's no bullshit.
Guest:No, it's a utopia of truth.
Guest:For a couple hours.
Guest:For a couple hours.
Guest:When you leave the utopia, you still got to get in your car.
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:You just can't really ever leave.
Marc:Oh, yeah, you can't live there then.
Marc:You can't live there, man.
Marc:But I imagine that's got to bring baggage to it because I imagine people go and you ride it out, you feel a little dirty, but then maybe they'll call you and you're like, no, no, no.
Guest:No?
Marc:Does that happen?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, the one time, it's just a different call.
Guest:It's funny when you get involved.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It still exists out here.
Guest:It exists everywhere and it's bigger than you'd think it ever would be.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It exists everywhere.
Marc:Do you need a password or something?
Guest:Yeah, in some of these places you do.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:It's an underground society of sorts.
Marc:And what about, do you go to, you're a porn guy?
Guest:uh no bigger than average oh you don't know any of those you know um sure i've been on a set and then i've had a couple of bras yeah yeah but not um you know i mean it's not interesting it's always the same sort of i can't differentiate between positive and negative attention and beyond that i'm stupid and
Guest:You know, there are lights.
Marc:I call them sex clowns.
Guest:They're sex clowns.
Guest:They're sex clowns.
Guest:That's exactly what they are.
Guest:They're just hopping around.
Guest:It's an exaggerated, ridiculous thing.
Guest:Well, and the systemic effects are awful on your life, I'm sure.
Guest:In what sense?
Guest:Oh.
Marc:in every sense oh you mean oh and people involved people involved yeah i mean i i don't like you know i've i interviewed dana d'armond in here yeah and i've had a uh a woman that does uh dominatrixing which is a little better but uh but the the point thing is like no matter how they say how much they say they're not crazy they're not damaged or whatever
Marc:But I mean, okay, that just means you accept it.
Marc:I mean, damage is only pathological if you let it destroy your life.
Marc:But if they've accepted the fact that they're doing this, they're fucking for money and they're making some bread and they're okay with it, then the damage is not indicative of anything other than like, you know, I can live with that.
Marc:What difference does it make?
Guest:Everybody's fucked up.
Guest:Yeah, if you accept it in that way, it just seems a little bit defeatist.
Guest:It's like, okay, it's fucked up.
Guest:I'm not going to repair it.
Guest:I'm just going to go full head on into whatever dysfunction I had in the beginning.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:And then you get into that weird moral, that moral gray area.
Guest:What is right and wrong?
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:Don't I decide that?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:And it's like, yeah, if you're Nietzsche or if you're if you're somebody who's really thinking about like if you're I mean, comedians, that's what a good comedian would do.
Guest:He would question what is right and wrong and where's the gray.
Guest:But if like you're just fucking for money on camera, it's like, is there really a philosophical argument for that being of value?
Marc:Well, her point was, and this is a point of a lot of them, because the business is broken so wide open that it seems like, you know, you go online, you know, I think my neighbor's on, is important.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It seems like, yeah, everyone's there.
Marc:I mean, he isn't, you know, I mean, I don't, maybe he isn't.
Guest:We don't know that.
Marc:We don't.
Marc:So everybody's finding some sort of access to this stuff.
Marc:Her point was like, look, it's a job.
Marc:A lot of people hate their jobs.
Marc:I'm okay with my job.
Marc:I'm making good bread.
Guest:Again, you know, the whole thing about, look, it's a job I don't buy.
Guest:It's like when you're living your life like that and you know that the consequences are, I mean...
Guest:I feel the same way you do.
Guest:I don't buy it.
Marc:Like I said before on the show, I don't deny that I use porn occasionally, that I don't celebrate it, and I refuse to accept that it's okay.
Marc:And it's certainly not okay because I use it.
Marc:Just because I jerk off to it, I don't think that validates... It does represent some sort of cultural decay and some sort of... It's a destruction of intimacy.
Marc:but yeah sure it is yeah it fucks with your head i mean i'm not saying in a broad sense and i've gotten emails from guys in sweden they're like it's just because americans are repressed okay you know i'll buy that for a little bit but you don't seem to realize that you know it's coming in cereal boxes here absolutely i mean it's fucking everywhere and if you start thinking about women like that or sex like that when you finally get with a real woman you're not going to be able to do anything absolutely i'm not dimension i mean if you look at the the i guess the arc and the sort of history of you know civilizations and cultures and whether it's rome it's like
Guest:There's that thing where it just gets more and more hedonistic as life gets easier until you guys, you eat yourself from the inside out.
Marc:Well, that's true.
Marc:I was thinking about that on the treadmill today where I went and I ran.
Marc:I run four miles.
Marc:I keep in pretty good shape.
Guest:I'm in pretty good shape.
Marc:For a guy my age, I can start adding that now.
Guest:You're in good shape.
Marc:You are in good shape.
Marc:I'm in good shape for a 20-year-old.
Marc:But then I see this fat pig walk by me as I'm coming out the gym.
Marc:I don't know if she's a pig.
Marc:What doesn't matter?
Marc:I bang her.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you're on the road.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:It's fine.
Marc:It is fun.
Marc:Of course it's fun.
Marc:It's like Gene Simmons said, because they'll try harder and they want it more.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, there's that part of it.
Guest:But also, it's just fun.
Marc:No, I agree with you.
Marc:But here's my point being is that I know that that person, no matter what kind of comfort they assume to be in, you're waking up with that much weight.
Marc:You want to crawl out of your fucking skin.
Guest:Oh, you're talking real big.
Guest:Yeah, no, I don't want to do that.
Marc:Well, we're not talking about fucking.
Marc:We're on another thing.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Guest:I didn't mean to.
Guest:No, I'm sorry.
Guest:I got all sidetracked.
Guest:I was just thinking about a thickness.
Guest:I enjoy a thickness.
Marc:Yeah, no, there's nothing wrong with that, and I enjoy it, too.
Marc:But what I'm saying is that in terms of cultural decay and the eating of yourself from the inside out and hedonism is that when people surrender to this thing where they constantly say it in their head, it's like, fuck it.
Marc:When everything is a fuck it, in order to make that fuck it feel better, it's going to have cultural repercussions.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Absolutely, man.
Marc:Between food and sex and just the accessibility of everything.
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:Before you know it, Christians are being thrown in front of lions.
Guest:Whatever that's representative of now.
Marc:They're not Christians.
Marc:They're people who actually want to be thrown in front of lions in the form of reality shows.
Marc:They're like, fine, fuck it.
Marc:Throw me in front of the lions.
Marc:We'll see what happens.
Marc:Sure, sure, sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then I started thinking like, you know, the amount like what in this culture, how the hell do you tell the difference between relaxation and just fucking exhaustion?
Marc:I mean, every fucking day you're overwhelmed.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How many times do I get to see Tracy Morgan and Bruce Willis in my face in this time?
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:And just between the computer, the car, everything else.
Marc:It's overwhelming.
Marc:Always.
Marc:It's just overwhelming.
Marc:Always overwhelming.
Marc:So if you can find any peace of mind which requires that you focus on something else, usually that's going to be draining you of your life force or your money.
Marc:So the whole thing is jiggered to re-fucking align our desires into fucking buying shit and relieving ourselves.
Marc:It's very hard to find out where you are in all that.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I was just talking to Neil today, but there's a book about something about propaganda and the people that when the culture of consumerism really began, it was like Freud's nephew that had a big part in playing it.
Marc:Yeah, I have that book.
Guest:Oh, do you?
Guest:Yeah, his nephew wrote the book on propaganda.
Guest:And they talk about sort of creating, you know, materialism doesn't happen unless people think they need shit they don't need.
Marc:It's all about re-aligning people's desires towards product and towards desiring something.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, even the idea of... It's a mindfuck.
Guest:It's a mindfuck.
Guest:The idea of a desirable demographic, like advertising-wise, 18 to 34, it means you're old enough to make money and dumb enough to buy shit you don't need.
Marc:But no one ever talks about that.
Marc:Everyone's always talking about the billions of dollars that goes into the military-industrial complex.
Marc:Nobody talks about the billions of dollars that goes into fucking our heads.
Guest:It goes into thin air, yeah.
Guest:Or that goes into actual...
Marc:Yeah, like there's people, all this culture does is, you know, 90% of the time is they've got professional people saying, how do we get these people to buy this?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And how do we fuck their heads?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Even just on a very basic level, you know, the volume of TV commercials is daunting.
Guest:It's atrocious.
Guest:I heard this one scumbag, some executive advertising guy say, I want to create a more meaningful relationship with the consumer.
Guest:And he was talking about selling like electronics or something.
Guest:Of course.
Guest:What are you talking about?
Guest:Do you hear the language you're using?
Marc:They know the language and they're proud of it.
Marc:That's a whole business.
Marc:It's like I was talking to somebody about a publicist the other day and how much they charge because they are all of it.
Marc:It's all about access and connections and moving people's brands around.
Marc:No one ever really talks about that in the same way that they talk about how destructive pollution is in the environment or global warming or war.
Marc:Propaganda and the advertising business should go right up there.
Guest:Abso-fucking-lutely.
Guest:It's just right up there with the ozone.
Guest:It's like, what is going on?
Marc:I think it's killing more people spiritually than anything else.
Guest:Mother Teresa said the worst poverty she'd ever seen is not in the third world.
Guest:It's right here in the United States.
Guest:There's a poverty of the spirit that's connected to that shit.
Guest:I know that.
Guest:When that becomes your God, it's just, all right, it's an atrophy that will not end.
Guest:We're all begging.
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:We're all desperate.
Guest:That's a good point.
Marc:It's true, because then they start to think it's like they've actually... Well, it's a void, right?
Marc:You can never fill it.
Marc:It's never enough.
Marc:Well, there's that, but there's also the fact that what they've done is they seem to have infantilized the entire culture.
Marc:Everybody has the desire and emotional system of 10-year-olds, if you really think about it.
Marc:And we're bad children, because they're like, I want it now.
Marc:And we've been taught that we can get it now if we pay for it.
Guest:Absolutely.
Marc:I want it now.
Marc:Don't say no to me.
Guest:It's such a good analogy.
Guest:Everybody has this sort of emotional maturity of 10-year-olds with regard to purchases.
Guest:And they made us like that.
Marc:They're like, why can't I have it right now?
Marc:You internalize that culture on the way up?
Marc:But they've colonized our fucking mind.
Marc:I mean, there's a part of your brain.
Marc:Like, you talk to some people.
Marc:Anyone who says, like, I only drink Coke, man.
Marc:Fuck Pepsi.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Coke has colonized that part of your mind.
Marc:There's a little Coke.
Guest:No, no.
Guest:You're a team.
Guest:You're one of those people.
Marc:I've been part of that.
Marc:I mean, I've been one of those guys.
Marc:I think some of us are.
Marc:I get very loyal to shit, don't you?
Guest:Yeah, depending on what it is and why I like it.
Guest:But I'm not going to be loyal to a team because I'm supposed to be.
Marc:I don't like sports in general.
Marc:But I mean, like with cars.
Guest:The whole idea of being loyal to somebody who doesn't care about you.
Marc:But I have this American state of mind where I like things that last.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And nobody makes that shit anymore.
Guest:For me, the association is value.
Guest:I just like, I need a lot.
Guest:So you got that from your dad.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:In a big way, man.
Guest:I got to have, it's got to be, there's got to be value there.
Guest:Yeah, like what?
Guest:Well, for instance, if a hotel room is $1,000 a night and I can get it for $300, I would pay the $300.
Guest:But if it's a $300 hotel room for $300, there's no fucking way I'm paying $300.
Guest:I would pay $100.
Guest:I'll pay one third of whatever the price usually is and that is usually a value correlate in there.
Marc:And do you find
Guest:that everything is negotiable oh yeah really because you seem like one of those guys like you know i i come from yeah sure you're like i i come from a family of marks you know and you come from a family of hustlers so how you know like i mean on the one side yeah but it's like um the um yeah i mean i i feel like most things are you can find a way now yeah you can find a way in do you have an example of that
Guest:I mean, even Priceline or real estate or with anything, depending on, give me something you want to buy.
Guest:I mean, there's a way to find it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:There's a way in.
Guest:You've done some real estate.
Guest:You had a building.
Guest:You and your brother bought a building for the price of a one-bedroom apartment.
Guest:In the low east side.
Marc:And now, didn't David Lee Roth live there for a while?
Guest:Yeah, I met him at the cellar, and we became friendly.
Guest:How's he doing?
Guest:Last night, I spoke to him.
Guest:He was doing well.
Guest:The thing about Lee Roth that's really interesting is it's never looking back.
Guest:If you just met the dude and you didn't know who he was, you'd never know he was involved in what he was involved in.
Guest:He was the lead singer of Van Halen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:When I was there, he did not have a bunch of people coming around.
Guest:We used to hang out on the deck.
Guest:We shared the deck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Outside.
Guest:And he was taking EMT lessons, becoming a certified EMT, taking rides in ambulances in the Bronx.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Isn't he like 60?
Guest:Yeah, no, but he's in good shape.
Guest:His mind is agile.
Guest:He likes a light weed.
Guest:And he was getting his helicopter license.
Guest:That's amazing.
Marc:And he's still got some bread, right?
Marc:He's got to have some bread still.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he made like lifetime bread.
Guest:Yeah, but he doesn't get off on, it's not his thing, man.
Guest:He's not a materialistic dude.
Marc:No, but what I'm saying, he's got enough bread to do whatever he wants.
Guest:Take helicopter lessons?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, I never understood that plan.
Marc:That the plan was like, here's what you do.
Marc:You try to do something, I'll make you enough bread so you don't have to do what you don't want to do.
Guest:Yeah, you become a rock star to music.
Marc:That is a racket more than anything else.
Marc:No, but I mean like there's more money to make.
Marc:There's more ways to make money.
Marc:You get a hit song.
Marc:You own a hit song.
Marc:You write a hit song.
Marc:The money never stops coming.
Guest:Yeah, look, I don't know the way the business works, but I mean I can only imagine all of the different ways to monetize shit.
Marc:So what do you see for the future?
Marc:I mean I know you're a thoughtful guy.
Guest:I try.
Guest:Do you have hope?
Guest:Do I have hope?
Guest:You've got to hold out hope, right?
Guest:Otherwise, what do you got?
Guest:I'm not going to be a nihilist, but at the same time, it's like, no, I don't have any hope.
Guest:No, you're going to be dealing with a bunch of fucking animals.
Guest:This is Sodom and Gomorrah, man.
Guest:We're going downhill.
Guest:Decline of Western civilization.
Marc:We're out of the game.
Marc:Right, but we are occasionally... I'm just going to try and have some fun on the sleigh ride down.
Marc:Right, so we're all occasionally an active participant in the Sodom and Gomorrah because it is fun.
Marc:It is ours.
Marc:It's uniquely American.
Marc:You're in Vegas?
Marc:Right.
Marc:You've got to sit on the sidelines and go, wow, this can't be good.
Marc:Awful.
Marc:Awful.
Marc:Just awful.
Marc:I've got to take a rest and think about what's happening.
Guest:Yeah, I've got to take a breather.
Marc:I don't think there's any stopping this, but I really just want to reflect.
Guest:It's a bad scene out there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What do you got going on now?
Marc:You got movies?
Marc:What was it like?
Guest:You worked with Jeff Goldblum briefly, didn't you?
Guest:Yeah, I was on a series with Jeff.
Guest:What's he like?
Guest:Interesting dude, man.
Guest:Just eccentric.
Guest:I'm not eccentric.
Guest:He's like you'd think he would be.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:There are people who are very different than you think they'd be.
Guest:He's a dude that feels your shirt and is like, it's an interesting fabric.
Guest:He's like that.
Marc:He's always been like that.
Marc:He was in Annie Hall for two seconds.
Guest:yeah yeah it was his first I forgot my mantra that's right that's right what's my mantra what's my mantra again yeah yeah yeah I've always liked him he's kind of an oddball yeah he's one of the actors that I've worked with he was one of the guys that you're like oh he's really good like he's a talented dude oh yeah yeah I mean he's just a gifted guy and he's all come from that school of acting where it's like I'm gonna be me to some degree in every role yeah I like that kind of acting yeah no he's just and he's real good at it like he's an interesting dude to be him plays piano too
Guest:Yeah, very good jazz piano, something like that, yeah.
Marc:So the big movie, though, that was the Mark Wahlberg movie that was supposed to be a big movie, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you all right?
Marc:Number one for a while.
Marc:What was it called?
Guest:Invincible.
Marc:And you had a big part.
Guest:Yeah, a pretty big part.
Guest:But, you know...
Guest:You know, this business is going to give a part.
Marc:For one reason or another, I've watched the business from afar.
Guest:And I've been marginally involved occasionally.
Guest:But that shit never ends.
Guest:I see a lot of people go up.
Marc:They go up and they come down.
Marc:They go up and they come down.
Marc:And as you get older and you start to get to know people more and you start to realize you're all in the same game, you get more impressed with the guys that come out of the fucking smoking heat.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:So you've got a real girlfriend now.
Marc:I got a real girlfriend, man.
Marc:I got a real girlfriend.
Marc:And you're living with her now?
Guest:Fucking, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that sounds great.
Guest:Can you tell I'm excited?
Guest:You know, look, I don't understand this whole cycle.
Guest:I just don't, I don't know.
Marc:Well, let's talk about it because, I mean, I don't understand it either and I've been through some pretty heavy cycles.
Guest:But nobody understands it.
Guest:Nobody understands.
Guest:I was just reading Mating and Captivity.
Guest:Mating and Captivity?
Guest:Is that a marriage manual?
Guest:It is.
Guest:It really is, man.
Guest:It was written by this analyst, and they're talking about how we give up.
Guest:A lot of the passion and eroticism up front is based on the insecurity.
Guest:It's a sales pitch.
Guest:It's not fully knowing each other.
Guest:It's a sales pitch.
Guest:I guess so.
Guest:It's how you get them.
Guest:yeah and then there's imagine that shit up front and then the cost of of of security is losing that and this woman basically was advocating people taking some time apart you know just just creating more insecurity in a relationship just being less sort of we're not going to see each other every day we're not going to spend as much so you take what most people believe is the objective healthy of a relationship which is trust and intimacy turn it in on itself
Guest:Fuck it up a little bit.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:You cheat day in, day out.
Guest:Oh, yeah, that'll work.
Guest:I'm trying to rationalize.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Marc:No, no, I don't fucking remember.
Marc:No, no, no, I know you don't.
Marc:But I've been recently thinking about it.
Guest:You don't know I don't, but I know.
Marc:Well, I knew who you were before, and I know from talking to you briefly, because you're a pretty straightforward guy, that you were trying to do the right thing by this way.
Marc:Yeah, I've been all straight and narrow.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I could sense that.
Marc:But I'm talking about it on stage.
Marc:I started to realize it, and it's not unlike what you're saying, that really trust and intimacy.
Marc:What you're really doing is that you're agreeing to buffer the other person's disappointment for as long as possible.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And protect their secrets.
Guest:That's a brilliant way to say it.
Marc:And also like, you know.
Guest:Buffer the disappointment, protect their secrets.
Marc:I mean, that's sort of it.
Marc:I mean, whatever those secrets might be, like the bit I'm trying to work out is that, you know, there are moments.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Where intimacy is defined.
Marc:And they're not sex.
Marc:Sex is fucking sex.
Marc:Either you're going to hit it or you're not.
Marc:And then you keep trying.
Marc:And if it goes bad, then you've got a whole other bag of fucking problems.
Marc:But the two things that I know about relationships is that 99% of the time, whatever you think you have together is a myth.
Marc:Because they've got their own fucking brain.
Marc:And they've got their own fucking thoughts about things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's never going to be fully communicated.
Marc:And even when it is, it's usually a defensive reaction.
Marc:So you don't know what the fuck world they're living in.
Guest:It's almost solipsistic in nature, you know.
Guest:It's like it is whatever our idea and our own consciousness is isn't necessarily theirs.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:We're all living our own separate little universe.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:We're trying to come together in a way that's livable, but...
Marc:That's right.
Marc:No matter how honest you are with each other, no matter how much you communicate, there's still a fucking wiring up there.
Marc:It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman or what kind of relationship it is.
Marc:It's just I found that no matter what, you're going to try to hold on to what you think you have.
Marc:And the only thing that's going to be an obstacle to that is whatever the fuck they're thinking.
Guest:And it's a whole other world over there.
Guest:Whatever they're thinking.
Guest:You're sweeping next to another planet.
Guest:And occasionally you kind of orbit and you roll around each other.
Guest:And then it's fucking that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's maddening.
Guest:And I feel like on some DNA genetic level, it's like we're set up.
Guest:Like parts of us haven't evolved to the point where that is a livable scenario.
Guest:And it's all a construct, right?
Guest:It's all kind of fault.
Guest:And that's not what we genuinely...
Guest:Our inclination genetically is to spread the seed, so that's at odds with what civilization and society and culture has told us.
Marc:Well, that's what civilization is trying to remedy in order that we don't have to run down the street fucking everything and cutting people's throats.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:And in that remedy is inherent conflict.
Marc:That's what a relationship is.
Marc:That's why you have the idea of sin and that's why religions have these certain ideas to basically hammer the point home that we are flawed beings that are struggling with exactly what you're talking about and that there has to be a level of forgiveness and contrition and empathy in order to continue to progress as a civilization.
Marc:And that's the big compromise.
Marc:But, I mean, it's second nature to us because, I mean, I don't want to run down the street, you know, fucking things and maybe risking my throat being cut, you know, just because they're taking things that I can't have.
Marc:Well, if it weren't a risk.
Marc:Well, I mean, that's why people go to swinger clubs is you can have ZD.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:That's right.
Guest:That's what the swing game's about.
Guest:People who see things clearly and want to move forward.
Guest:For a couple hours.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:Not these animals that have internalized some false construct known as religion to prevent us from fearing our own death.
Guest:These people, they bang.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:But the religion also outside of God, I think, was put in place to make people act relatively properly.
Marc:I mean, if you look at the Ten Commandments, despite what Carlin says, is that there's a list of things.
Marc:And the seven sins, too.
Marc:The Ten Commandments, seven daily sins.
Marc:Someone sat down, fairly bright people, and said, these ten things are what fucks everything up.
Guest:And these seven things, if they get out of hand, fuck everything up.
Guest:So between the two books, we've got to include these things in there.
Guest:Just so people don't make a big fucking mess of things.
Guest:And if we throw the fear of God in, then we've really got them.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:If you negate the God element and just look at the basic premise.
Marc:Yeah, no, it all makes sense.
Marc:It could be a lot simpler.
Marc:But getting back to the intimacy and the idea of protecting people's secrets and buffering their disappointment is that intimacy is not built on sex.
Marc:That's a fallacy that like, okay, if you fuck somebody, then all the doors are open and now we owe each other something.
Marc:It's bullshit.
Marc:What it really comes down to is that
Marc:It's those moments of fear, those moments of vulnerability.
Marc:Trusting people with that vulnerability, that's really what it comes down to.
Guest:Yes, and my problem is, and I was trying to write a bit about love and vulnerability on stage, it's like when I feel vulnerable, my preferred course of action is to be able to threaten somebody.
Guest:You know, it's almost like if you live in a bad neighborhood, you can buy a gun and be like, yo, if you're going to rob me, there's a good chance I'm going to shoot you in the face.
Marc:So that's intimacy?
Guest:That's intimacy?
Guest:No.
Guest:But the problem with love in a relationship is that that kind of vulnerability I'm so uncomfortable with and how do I compensate?
Guest:How do I threaten her?
Guest:How do I get a gun?
Guest:What do I say?
Guest:Listen, woman, if you hurt me, it's really going to hurt.
Guest:So that's preemptive.
Guest:That's what I did.
Marc:You can't hurt somebody.
Marc:That could very easily become abusive because you're manufacturing a fear of a pain, of a type of pain.
Marc:And someone made a point to me that was very interesting is that whatever fear you have along those lines is probably very young.
Guest:right sure and that you know somehow or another it's in the wiring and you still feel the threat of a 10 year old kid who was abandoned or hurt or whatever so so you're sort of protecting this thing that it really isn't a threat anymore i mean that's the problem with dysfunction that's the problem with internalizing this it's like that's what therapy i always thought of therapy is sort of you have all this armor on and it's all the stuff based on you know your defenses when you're young and vulnerable and then you never but you never take the arm off as you get older even though you don't need it anymore
Guest:And so it's no longer productive, it's counterproductive.
Guest:It prevents you from experiencing relationships fully.
Guest:It prevents a richness of existence than otherwise.
Marc:Right, that's true.
Marc:But then you get to a point where you're like, I'm too old to change, or how much of this do I want to trim away?
Marc:Do I want to keep going to therapy?
Guest:The bigger question I have is, is it even possible, regardless of how much therapy, regardless of whatever it's like, monogamy, the idea of domesticity, is it like, is that a place where I can exist, regardless of how well I've ironed out my issues?
Marc:Well, that's very specific.
Marc:I do think that people can change by making different choices for themselves, despite the fact that instinctually they want to make choices that hurt them.
Marc:I think you can change.
Marc:Absolutely.
Marc:I think it's a fallacy that people never change.
Marc:People change.
Marc:They do.
Marc:Right now, I can't even fucking imagine.
Marc:being in a monogamous relationship in the sense of having to be responsible for another person.
Marc:I mean, that's really what it comes, because I don't know how not to make them at least 70% of my fucking brain.
Marc:So all of a sudden, it's not just a relationship.
Marc:It's like, oh, she becomes part of my brain, becomes part of my life, and I'm worried about it, and you're constantly thinking about this or that.
Guest:It becomes like an occupant.
Guest:I was talking about this with Neil.
Guest:It's part of the colonialism thing.
Guest:He sees a relationship as an occupying force.
Guest:It's like us in Iraq.
Guest:It's like, oh, we're here to help, but we don't, you know, but it's like you're no longer a sovereign nation.
Guest:You've got a military occupation taking place of sorts.
Guest:You know, I wouldn't call that a romantic metaphor.
Marc:I think that Neil, if that is a functioning metaphor, that's not a good relationship.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Of course it's not.
Guest:Of course it's not.
Guest:But I think the whole idea, you're talking about it occupying 70% of your mental space.
Marc:Well, I just think that because whether you want to call it codependency or whether you want to call it the lack of boundaries or whatever, that you tend to see, you sit there, not only are you worried about how you think about you, but now you're sitting there manufacturing what you think they think.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And then it becomes this game of like, I wonder if she's thinking that.
Guest:It can be a neurotic spiral.
Marc:Of course.
Marc:Of course, because then you accuse them of thinking something because you read something the wrong way, and then that's that thing where you're living in two different worlds.
Guest:I do this whole bit about having an argument over something that you couldn't possibly argue about under any other circumstance at any point.
Guest:We were in the car, and she was like,
Guest:She goes, to each his own.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, I don't understand what you mean.
Guest:And she goes, I mean to each his own.
Guest:I was like, I heard what you said, but I don't really know what you mean.
Guest:And then she's like, I mean to each his own.
Guest:And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about, man?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, on stage, I took the turn signal off and stuck at my leg, prevent me from choking her to death.
Guest:But really, and it led to sort of, and I was trying to think about like a crime of passion really is a defense strategy in a court of law.
Guest:It's a legal defense strategy because, you know, it's...
Guest:It happened like you're not the kind of criminal that society needs to worry about unless they're in a relationship with you.
Guest:It's right.
Guest:It's a crime of passion.
Guest:It means we recognize that relationships are so fucking difficult that you wouldn't have killed somebody for their wallet.
Guest:You did it because you were in a relationship with them and you're not going to get murder one.
Guest:You're going to get a reduced charge because everybody recognized.
Guest:That whole Van Gogh thing, and I was like, Van Gogh, cut off his ear, sent it to his girlfriend.
Guest:I was like, the first time I heard that, I was like, that's crazy.
Guest:And then after I'd been in a relationship, I'm like, I can't believe that doesn't happen every fucking day.
Guest:Yeah, and the sad thing is, it wasn't enough.
Guest:And it wasn't enough.
Guest:And it wasn't enough.
Guest:You could have that.
Guest:Wait a second, that's good.
Marc:Yeah, do that.
Guest:And it wasn't enough.
Marc:I don't quite understand.
Marc:What I found after two marriages is that I'm very selfish, and I lived a lot in my head, and I was abusive, and I don't really know.
Marc:I don't understand.
Marc:I think it has to do with what you want and what compromises you're willing to make.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:And the thing about whatever the biological argument is on the fence of civilized and uncivilized and biological urges is that the one thing that makes us different is that we can choose not to do something and we can make compromises and live with them.
Marc:Ultimately, it's just about making a choice.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And it's like you're going to temper your happiness or decide what happiness is or what the negotiation is.
Marc:It's a negotiation.
Guest:What the negotiation is.
Guest:You know, I mean, I was I don't know if it's Chris Roger, how many other people said it was like the whole idea between boredom and loneliness born, you know, boredom being in a relationship that's secure and loneliness being single and fucking around and then home empty alone after it's over with.
Guest:And it's like, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, where do you want to live?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also I had a therapist once who said there's no such thing as boredom, just fear.
Marc:And I think that a lot of times when you're in a relationship, what you get into is it just becomes this, all it becomes is just an exchange of petty quirks and habits.
Marc:A dynamic evolves where that really becomes a sort of collective defense mechanism against sadness or pain or fear.
Marc:And you just get into these habits.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And one day you're like, you know, I can't put up with this shit anymore.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And depending on how far into it you are, the person is going to go, what does that mean?
Marc:I mean, I thought everything was fine.
Marc:Then like a communication thing happens.
Marc:It's unresolvable.
Marc:It's unresolvable.
Marc:And that's why porn is popular.
Guest:Absolutely.
Guest:I mean, it's a big part of it.
Guest:It's a big part of it.
Guest:But these guys, I mean, I'm looking at the books on the wall.
Guest:It's like from Nietzsche to, I mean, whoever the philosopher, Aristotle, nobody was able to figure relationships out.
Marc:No, they didn't really do that.
Marc:No, nobody got there.
Marc:And there's a whole other school of thought around that.
Marc:The rate of suicide among these guys is pretty high, too.
Marc:Well, yeah, because truth is a big burden to carry.
Guest:It's a bitch, ain't it?
Guest:Either you're going to kill you or someone's going to kill you.
Guest:Across the bay, yeah.
Guest:Someone's going to take you down.
Guest:Yeah, either you're going to kill you or somebody else is.
Marc:Yeah, something's going to happen.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, it just seems like everybody's got their own thing, but you start to realize life is short, and you can't spend your life thinking that something else is going to happen or that it's just over the hill.
Marc:At some point, you've got to land in the present and go, holy shit, this is it.
Marc:Another fucking day.
Guest:Another day, man.
Guest:Yeah, every day is Judgment Day, my friend.
Guest:Every day.
Guest:Every day.
Guest:I mean, that sounds like a reasonable perspective.
Guest:All right, Dov, I think we did it.
Guest:Okay, buddy.
Guest:All right, man.
Guest:Good talking to you.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I had a great time, but I got to tell you the high point, because when I did the open, this hadn't happened yet.
Marc:But my last show in Scotland, I was playing a basement in a pub called McFab's, which was a little off the beaten track.
Marc:I literally there were 15 people in the audience.
Marc:Eight of which had seen me.
Marc:Four had been following me around the entire festival.
Marc:And then there were three that just happened to drink at that bar.
Marc:And I think maybe the owner.
Marc:So literally maybe six people that hadn't seen me.
Marc:I didn't use a mic because it was unnecessary.
Marc:It was completely... A lot of it was improvised.
Marc:And in the middle of my show, or actually towards the beginning of my show, a guy comes into the room with another guy.
Marc:And I'm performing.
Marc:And then I see one of the guys walk out.
Marc:He says, I've got to go to the bathroom.
Marc:And he said it in an accent that I can't do, so fine.
Marc:And I look at him as he's leaving.
Marc:I realize, holy fuck, that looks like that actor...
Marc:from Braveheart and from The Departed, that crazy Irish guy.
Marc:And I asked the guy who was with him, I said, is that that guy, the actor?
Marc:And he's like, yeah.
Marc:And I'm like, holy fuck, what's he doing here?
Marc:I mean, out of all the places?
Marc:And then I was like starstruck for like the rest of my set because that guy's great.
Marc:He was great in The Departed.
Marc:He always plays like the crazy wild Irish dude.
Marc:His name's David O'Hara.
Marc:And I met him after the show.
Marc:He's like, that's great, man.
Marc:You're great.
Marc:I'd love to see you in a real place.
Marc:And I'm like, great, man.
Marc:I'll try to tell you.
Marc:He's like, no, come here, man.
Marc:He gives me a big hug.
Marc:We're talking.
Marc:He talked about Los Angeles.
Marc:He comes from Glasgow.
Marc:And I got his email.
Marc:And maybe we'll hook up.
Marc:And when he's out in L.A., I'll bring him to a real show.
Marc:But how is that?
Marc:Like, how am I still such a fucking fanboy?
Marc:And that was one of the high points of my trip to Scotland.
Marc:And it happened right at the last minute possible.
Marc:But that's our show.
Marc:Go to punchlinemagazine.com if you need any comedy information of any sort.
Marc:Justcoffee.coop if you need to blow your mind and shit your pants.
Marc:If you live in Cleveland, Ohio, I'll be at the Grog Shop on the 21st of March.
Marc:And if you live in Washington, D.C., I'll be at the Black Cat on the 22nd.
Marc:Those are rock clubs.
Marc:New venue for me.
Marc:Come on down.
Marc:Take a trip.
Marc:And as always, WTFPod.com.
Marc:If you want to follow us on Twitter, email the show, donate some money, buy some t-shirts.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:Mark Merritt.
Marc:Scotland is behind me.
you