Episode 558 - Jenny Slate
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ucks what the fuck tuckians welcome this is wtf i'm mark maron thanks for tuning in i'm happy you're here
Marc:My guest today is the lovely, the talented, completely charming, endearing, and oh my fucking God, I love her, Jenny Slate.
Marc:Why do I say fuck so much?
Marc:I don't have to say fuck so much.
Marc:Why do I say everything?
Marc:So much of what I do, it seems, is to stop from having a range of emotions.
Marc:Just leveling them off.
Marc:Fuck is a non... That's a stifler.
Marc:That's not an embracing word.
Marc:It's not a word that brings people in.
Marc:It's a fist word in a couple of different ways.
Marc:You know, it's fun to say.
Marc:I punctuate with it, frankly.
Marc:It's a little lazy.
Marc:I know some people find it disconcerting and don't enjoy it.
Marc:I'm starting to get to that point.
Marc:I don't know if that's a sign of maturity or what, but I might be...
Marc:Maybe that's the next thing I need to give up is the word fuck.
Marc:Maybe I got to get off of fuck.
Marc:What do you think?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm trying to, like, look, a lot of you know what's going on with me.
Marc:Some of it, you know, I'm about a week or so off of nicotine.
Marc:This is like day nine.
Marc:I'm off of coffee too, but I'm drinking tea, which is a different type of buzz.
Marc:It sort of sneaks up on you, you know, like Empire does.
Marc:All of a sudden, you know, you're being run by something else.
Marc:The tea.
Marc:My big idea was that if I got off of the nicotine, I got off the coffee that, you know, my hands and feet and my ears and everything, they would all start ringing and stop ringing and tingling and going numb in places.
Marc:But that has not happened.
Marc:And I went to a neurologist and I went and got more blood tests and I just got some more tests and everything's normal.
Marc:which is not great news look i'm not saying i want something horrible to be happening to me but like like a treatable explanation to why you know i my my hands and feet tingle and sometimes my ears pop you don't want to know that that it might just be you bottling up a childhood's worth of garbage on top of the stress that you're going through in the immediate present that you're just this walking
Marc:cauldron or pressure cooker or or you know or bell jar full of bad jelly yeah full of bad jelly and tears preserved a childhood just just just stagnated and preserved within my heart is a bell jar full of bad jelly
Marc:Come on, man.
Guest:Can't we just have one nicotine lozenge?
Guest:Come on, man.
Guest:It's been nine days.
Guest:It's been nine days.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:Maybe you should give him one.
Marc:How many people are in here?
Marc:How many people?
Marc:There's a lot of us.
Marc:There's a lot of us.
Marc:And one of them is seven and he's sad.
Marc:Well, bring him up.
Marc:Send him up.
Marc:Hey, how's it going, kiddo?
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:Is it?
Marc:Not really.
Marc:I don't feel good.
Marc:I feel sad.
Guest:Give them a lozenge.
Guest:Just give them one lozenge.
Guest:Just give them a little something.
Guest:Give the kids something.
Guest:Give them a taste.
Guest:Give them some Manischewitz.
Marc:God, just holding back tears.
Marc:Do you ever think about how much of your life is just holding back tears?
Marc:I mean, I find this when I have conversations with people in here, that I'll get emotional over very little things.
Marc:I do get emotional, but I stifle it.
Marc:I put on a Nick Drake album the other day, and I almost lost my shit.
Marc:But that's normal.
Marc:That's a normal reaction to a Nick Drake record.
Marc:Is to just lose your shit.
Marc:But I held it in.
Marc:I hold shit in.
Marc:What am I afraid of?
Marc:I've taken away the nicotine.
Marc:I'm ready to just let love rip out of me.
Guest:Just shower the world with love.
Guest:That is not what it is, man.
Guest:That is not what it is.
Guest:It is.
Guest:I feel like I'm going to cry and my heart is going to explode with love for everybody.
Guest:Not what's happening.
Guest:Jesus, fuck.
Guest:Have a lozenge.
Marc:Not doing it, man.
Marc:Nine days in.
Marc:Nine days in, like eight pounds heavier.
Marc:So that's what gets me back.
Marc:There's so much happening in the world of great importance, but nothing is quite as important as me being a couple pounds overweight.
Marc:Is that selfish?
Marc:Yes, it is.
Marc:Is it true?
Marc:Kind of is.
Marc:Is that tragic?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:okay all right here's what's going on all right i got a pretty i got clean bill of health i'm off the nicotine i'm off the coffee all right i'm not losing my shit too bad my nerves are a little frayed my emotions are very close to the surface all right i've been dating this person and uh we're getting along good we're not fighting i'm not being emotionally abusive i'm holding that in here's the deal i'm
Marc:I'm not really sure how to date somebody that has their own life and they aren't, you know, tremendously needy and they enjoy the time we're together and then they go do their own life.
Marc:It's a very peculiar thing to have somebody just go, all right, well, maybe we'll make some time tomorrow to hang out.
Marc:I'm like, what do you mean?
Marc:Maybe.
Marc:Why aren't you living inside of me?
Marc:already how come we aren't completely enmeshed and connected in a way that i can't differentiate my emotions from yours and it just becomes this this symbiotic disaster of of abusive emotions because of needs that can't be met why and full of drama and chaos and
Marc:why isn't it that it's not it's insane because here's the here's the funny thing is i i've gotten to this point in relationships where i've become a bit cynical the last two kind of kicked my ass in a big way and now i'm back you know i'm solid you know i'm clear i'm um i'm out of the woods i'm dating this one person and uh
Marc:And I'm a little protective, which is completely new.
Marc:It's better to be emotionally protective than emotionally abusive and crazy.
Marc:So now without this nicotine, God damn, I'm just feeling all these emotions and my nature is to stop them.
Marc:If I can't make my emotions anger, I don't know what the hell to do with them.
Marc:Shut that dog up!
Marc:All right, don't.
Marc:So...
Marc:I'm not even that angry at that dog.
Marc:He's part of it.
Marc:We're all live in the world.
Marc:So, so this is new.
Marc:So now I'm just going to try to let these, these emotions, you know, kind of come through in a way that I can handle slowly without letting it, without letting them be anger.
Marc:You know, maybe I'm going to do some crying, appropriate crying.
Marc:Maybe I'll do some crying on stage.
Guest:Fuck man.
Guest:Do us all a favor.
Guest:Have a goddamn lozenge.
Marc:No, man.
Marc:I'm going to let my emotions happen naturally.
Marc:Yeah, that sounds like a good idea because I've been waiting a long time for that to happen.
Marc:I've just been in here waiting.
Marc:Yeah, see?
Marc:Why don't you listen to the kid?
Guest:Fuck the kid!
Guest:He had his time.
Guest:It's not his time now.
Marc:Why is that guy always yelling?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm trying to stop him.
Guest:Go.
Guest:What are you going to do now, kid?
Guest:Cry?
Guest:Make him stop yelling.
Marc:I don't want him to yell anymore.
Marc:Just take it easy, kid.
Marc:Would you shut up?
Marc:Just go get something else.
Marc:Go jerk off or something.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:All right.
Guest:I'll do that.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:You all right, kid?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Let's jerk off.
Marc:It's going to be okay.
Marc:I'm going to just, I'm going to relax.
Marc:I'm going to let myself live.
Marc:I'm going to get reengaged in the world.
Marc:I'm going to stop talking about myself so much.
Marc:I'm going to help other people in this Christmas season.
Marc:I'm going to, uh, I'm going to open my heart to, uh, to the animals.
Marc:And I mean, human animals and regular animals.
Marc:Um, um,
Marc:I'm going to think before I yell.
Marc:What am I making a list for?
Marc:It's not even New Year's.
Marc:I'm going to eat less.
Marc:I've got to fucking eat less.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:Get off the nicotine between Thanksgiving and quitting the nicotine.
Marc:I got on the scale yesterday and I almost started running away from whatever happened on the scale.
Guest:that's a weird reaction you stand on the scale you just start running for your life what is that can't be my weight i'm a fucking troubled man all right let's talk to jenny swate
Marc:You are surrounded by stacks of books?
Guest:I like it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:What part of town do you live in?
Guest:I live in Los Feliz.
Marc:Oh, you're one of them?
Guest:I guess so.
Marc:Okay, fine.
Marc:You have a house in Los Feliz?
Guest:Yeah, I rent a house.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you have a husband that you live with?
Guest:Yeah, Dean.
Guest:I'm a traditional person in a way.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:In my way.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:But I'm also very lonely.
Marc:Really?
Guest:By nature.
Marc:Right now?
Guest:No, I mean, like, it's really...
Guest:this is what I would prefer to like be in a little space and be able to just like talk for, you know, I like that.
Guest:And I don't, I don't like to be by myself.
Guest:So I need to have a partner.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Just someone like, almost like furniture.
Marc:Hey, that guy's there.
Guest:And pets.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't care if he's even like talking to me, but.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just knowing he's over there.
Marc:Check in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you still in that room?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And we had like months of arguments because he wanted to get an office.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And I was like.
Marc:Like an offsite office?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Ooh.
Guest:And I was like personally really offended by it.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Did you fight?
Marc:You're like, why would you want to be away from me during the day doing your work when you could do work in that room down the hall?
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Where I could walk in and go like, what are you working on?
Guest:And he was like, because you always walk in and you're just like stoned and you walk in and like say stuff and you're like distracted.
Marc:Did you say you're stoned?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm like, because I'm delightful because it rules.
Guest:I'm just, why can't I be a pet?
Marc:So you walk in with sort of like, did you ever notice this fruit is really good?
Guest:Yeah, I'll be like, babe, cut up a watermelon.
Marc:Yeah, it's amazing.
Guest:And he'll be like, ugh.
Marc:What does he do?
Guest:He's a director.
Marc:Oh, he directs things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I should know all this, but I don't.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:His full name?
Guest:His name is Dean Fleischer Camp.
Marc:That's three names.
Guest:It's a hyphen, yeah.
Marc:It's a hyphen.
Guest:Well, his middle name is Louis, so it's Dean Louis Fleischer Camp.
Marc:I think he should go with that.
Marc:Why'd he drop the Louis?
Guest:I don't think he dropped it.
Guest:I just didn't say it.
Marc:I would have dropped the camp, quite honestly.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Marc:Dean Louis Fleischer.
Marc:Now, that's a fucking director.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I feel like, well, he, yeah, he made the hyphen himself.
Marc:He did?
Guest:To use both parents' names.
Marc:Oh, they didn't do that?
Guest:No, he's just sort of like honoring both mother and father.
Marc:I'm glad he feels that way about them.
Guest:Yeah, he's like a pretty cool person.
Yeah.
Marc:So, your name's Jenny Slate.
Marc:Jenny, Sarah Slate.
Marc:I'm slating you.
Marc:I'm slating Jenny.
Marc:I never do that.
Marc:It doesn't matter, because I want to introduce you anyways.
Marc:But I want to make it clear that I know who you are.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:What, Sarah's your middle name?
Marc:Yeah, with an H. Can you turn down the Jew a little?
Marc:I mean, seriously.
Marc:No.
Marc:I bet you that was tricky for your parents to, like, I bet you they're like Sarah or Jenny.
Marc:Sarah.
Marc:Because you could be a Sarah easy.
Guest:You think I could?
Marc:Oh, geez.
Marc:Did I say something wrong?
Marc:No.
Guest:Yeah, fuck you.
Guest:I just kill myself.
Marc:That is the last time I'm going to hear that.
Marc:See, I'm going to assume a tremendous amount of familiarity with you because I feel it.
Guest:Yeah, no, it's cool.
Guest:That's like what happens.
Marc:It is?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's easy for me to slip into familiarity.
Marc:Because you have no boundaries.
Guest:I have some.
Guest:I have the right ones.
Guest:Do you?
Guest:Yeah, like I've never gotten drunk and taken off like clothing when I shouldn't have.
Guest:Maybe I don't like to take physical risks.
Guest:But like I like one time was like on a serious amount of like MDMA and everybody was naked in the pool.
Guest:And I was like, I don't take off my clothes.
Guest:And I went in in my clothes.
Marc:So that's weird.
Marc:So you're probably a person that can't be hypnotized.
Marc:No, untrue.
Guest:Huh?
Guest:I have been.
Marc:Really?
Guest:For stage fright.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it worked?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't understand that.
Marc:You have this fundamental core defense that won't let you enjoy yourself naked with a bunch of other people who were naked.
Guest:I don't like group nudity.
Guest:I can't handle it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I love looking at this.
Marc:What is your fear about that?
Marc:Is it like, because I don't either.
Marc:Is it like you'll be judged?
Marc:Like, you know, mine's different than theirs?
Marc:Like, they're going to see my dick?
Marc:What...
Guest:I don't want anybody to see my dick.
Guest:I'm not ready for it.
Guest:I've only been in this profession for about five years.
Marc:That would be a shocker.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:You'd be branded somehow.
Guest:Because my dick is like six feet long.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:I'm only 5'4".
Marc:That's amazing.
Guest:So it's a lot more like a tail.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You just roll it up.
Guest:It has a spine.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Like we were OK.
Guest:So we were driving.
Guest:It was my ex-boyfriend.
Marc:That guy.
Guest:And his boyfriend had rented a house.
Marc:His boyfriend friend.
Guest:His, no, his boyfriend, he's, he's gay.
Guest:His boyfriend had rented him a house.
Marc:So were you the deciding factor in his?
Guest:No.
Guest:I mean, we, when we were together, he was like, we were like young and he wasn't ready to, to come out.
Guest:Um, and.
Marc:So you kind of helped shepherd it.
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, anyway.
Guest:So, well, no, no.
Guest:I just.
Marc:Was there a moment where he just looked at your vagina and said, I'm done here.
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I actually feel that he and he will still say that he he was like he was into it as much as he could have been.
Guest:I felt like we were vibing like I didn't really.
Marc:As much as he could have been.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like I think essentially he needs a dick.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But he he's not on the Kinsey scale or whatever.
Guest:Like he's still like turned on by pussies.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Well it must have.
Marc:How long did you go out with him?
Guest:Not that long.
Guest:Like five months.
Marc:Okay, so back to the story.
Marc:So he and his boyfriend, who you get along with, and you're still friends with the guy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:We're sweet, sweet friends.
Guest:So his boyfriend rented a house in Palm Springs, and a bunch of us were going there to go and hang out.
Guest:And the plan was we're going to take MDMA and just chill out.
Guest:And I'd never done that before.
Marc:That's like ecstasy, kind of?
Guest:Yeah, it's like, I don't know.
Marc:That came out after I stopped doing drugs.
Guest:Yeah, and I did it for the first time at 30.
Marc:But it's one of those ones where it's like, I just feel loved.
Marc:Yeah, totally.
Guest:But I thought it was ecstasy.
Guest:And the only thing I knew about ecstasy was some sort of 2020 report where they're like, you get too horny and you get holes in your brain.
Guest:And I was just like, I would never do that.
Marc:And spinal cord things.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And you're just like, get away from me.
Guest:I don't I don't I never want to die.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Who does?
Guest:Right.
Guest:So but I think MDMA is something that's like the pure.
Guest:It's just the chemical thing.
Marc:It's a healthy ecstasy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, whatever, whatever you need to tell yourself to get there.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:So we're driving there and I was like, oh, I don't want to take MDMA with all these like visual artists.
Guest:They're all going to be naked.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I don't like that.
Marc:He's a visual artist?
Guest:He's a visual artist.
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:He's a painter.
Marc:Oh, painter.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Guest:And so were his friends and stuff.
Guest:And I was going with a comedian friend of mine and our other friend, his girlfriend.
Guest:And it was terrifying to think they were going to be naked.
Guest:But then we all took it and then they were naked and they all looked gorgeous.
Guest:Everyone's body was beautiful.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Maybe it was the MDMA talking.
Guest:Oh, it definitely was.
Marc:We were just surrounded by cherubs.
Guest:They looked so good.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you were like, I'm not, nope.
Guest:I was like, I can't, and I don't know, I really would like to know why I can't just be naked around groups, but I just feel really, really shy.
Marc:I don't think you should trouble yourself with it too much.
Marc:I don't think you should wake up and go, today's the day.
Marc:I'm not going to.
Marc:I leave my house naked.
Guest:No, yeah.
Marc:There's no reason for that.
Guest:Why force yourself if it's just not, it might just be because there's just a part of me that is traditionally kind of old-fashioned.
Marc:With me, I think it's sort of like, for me, with a dude, I would think, I mean, I'd like to be that comfortable.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:I'd love it.
Marc:Yeah, but for me, okay, so everyone's taking their clothes off, I'm taking my clothes off, and I gotta walk around going, it's a grower, it's a grower.
Guest:Right, the penis hole thing is like a bummer.
Marc:You don't want to be that guy at the naked party.
Marc:Huh?
Guest:No.
Guest:Look at it now.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then here's what I don't get is how people act like they're not staring at everything.
Guest:Because I was like staring at everything.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you're on MDMA.
Marc:True.
Marc:How close were you when you were staring?
Marc:Will you come here a second?
Marc:Wow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's really more complicated than I thought it was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like an inch away from everyone's bush like all night long.
Guest:Just smiling.
Guest:A really gentle smile.
Yeah.
Marc:Where did you grow up?
Guest:I'm from Milton, Massachusetts.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:First, there's a word association.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:Ready?
Guest:Good.
Marc:Curry College.
Guest:Oh, man.
Guest:Man.
Guest:That's what you stopped yourself.
Guest:Man.
Marc:There is a man that I know that went there.
Guest:And he played tennis with my sister.
Guest:One of my sisters.
Marc:At Curry College?
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:At New England Tennis Camp?
No.
Guest:There was like a tennis camp there and my sister was a tennis teacher there and there was like a cute guy there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How do you know about Curry College?
Marc:I went there my freshman year.
Marc:You did?
Marc:I was down the street from you when you were a child.
Guest:What?
Guest:When?
Guest:What year?
Marc:81, 82.
Guest:Oh, yeah, I wasn't born.
Marc:You weren't even there yet.
Marc:I was getting born.
Marc:Your dad was around, though.
Guest:Yeah, my dad, Ron Slate.
Marc:Yeah, he was down the street.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And your mom.
Guest:Actually, they bought the house in 81, so you guys were arriving in the town at the same time.
Marc:They were excited to move in, and I was like, what the fuck am I doing here?
Guest:Did you like it?
Marc:Well, no, because it was one of those, it was a Hail Mary pass to get out of Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Marc:My grades weren't great in high school, and they sort of had a program.
Marc:It was basically one of those schools where I think they had a very nationally renowned program
Marc:for dyslexics but they also sort of like we'll take your fucked up middle class kids too if you can afford to have them here and so you were like i will go to this yeah transfer out and try to nail it and then where'd you go bu oh cool it's all right it's cool but milton's like uh it's a hoity-toity you think that what do you mean what just own it or not
Guest:I don't know, actually.
Guest:My experience of the town is so isolated because my parents, we all just stayed in our house all the time.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't go to the public school, so I didn't really know the kids in the town.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think you're defining Horty Toity as we speak.
Guest:No, I just mean those children seem dirty.
Marc:And I. Yeah.
Marc:Where'd you go?
Guest:I went to Milton Academy.
Marc:Of course you did.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was like the really smart school.
Marc:And then you had the stupid expensive college and there was nice houses.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then five miles away, there's Mattapan.
Marc:And you're like, everything's different here.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Everything is very different.
Guest:And Dorchester.
Guest:There's like a major class discrepancy there.
Marc:Yeah, it was sort of fascinating to me.
Marc:I'm trying to remember my experience there.
Marc:I studied hard and I did well to get out.
Marc:Yeah, kind of like focused.
Marc:I was one of those sort of like, he's really bright, but he just is not motivated.
Marc:I nailed it a bit.
Guest:Did you feel bad that people said that about you?
Guest:That you weren't motivated?
Marc:No, because in retrospect, what I'm learning about myself is it is what it is.
Marc:You know, I was a creative kid, but I just couldn't I couldn't focus.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like I just was like exhausted all the time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like if somebody started teaching me anything, I'd be like, oh, my God, I can't I can't stay awake for this.
Guest:Yeah, that's how I felt about math and like clocks.
Marc:Clocks in general?
Guest:Like clocks, like when I look at the clock that has the face with the numbers.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:One of those clocks.
Guest:One of those clocks, I still have to go like 5, 10, 15, 20, like to count the minutes because I just got so bored whenever it was math or that kind of stuff.
Guest:And I felt really bad about it until I think recently.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I would do the same thing where I would just be like, I am not going to even fucking do this.
Guest:And I felt so bad about it.
Guest:But then English and history, I could get there.
Guest:But I still just had a really hard time focusing.
Guest:But I knew I wasn't dumb.
Guest:And I was just like, ugh.
Guest:I just want to be done.
Marc:Well, it's weird.
Marc:Like math and those things, like the puzzle sciences.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, there's definitely a correct answer.
Marc:Right.
Marc:There's no speculating.
Marc:It's like, if you learn this, the answer should be that.
Guest:It's like, well, if you already know that it's going to be something, why do you need to fucking hear it from me?
Marc:No, I get it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:But the idea is like, well, maybe you should make your brain do that.
Marc:It could help you when you're counting later.
Guest:It could.
Guest:And you should try to do everything.
Guest:I do think, like, as a kid, it's like, just try to do it.
Marc:Just try to do it.
Marc:I couldn't do it because, like, I just, for some reason, my brain wouldn't do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, there was not enough poetry and algebra for me.
Marc:And people would argue that's one of the more poetic maths.
Guest:Yeah, I actually kind of got into like geometry for a second.
Guest:The proofs are like what would do it.
Guest:Because there's a mystery.
Marc:And also it's sort of like, you know, there's a sense, there's a picture.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's sort of like, oh, you can make these, like prove to why that picture is the way it is.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you can see it.
Guest:And fractals are super cool and poetic and exciting and contain obviously like the concept of infinity.
Guest:And that's really cool to think about.
Marc:That's a little exhausting, but yeah.
Guest:It's exhausting in a way that it's exhausting to look into the sky.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Because you're just like, ah, my heart.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It's so great.
Marc:Yeah, there's the poetry.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And from there, there's like, we're just floating through space.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then there's like, this is really temporary.
Marc:And then there's, we don't really matter.
Marc:And then there's darkness.
Guest:Do you go there?
Marc:I can.
Marc:I just did.
Marc:Yeah, you definitely did.
Marc:It was like three or four steps and I was there.
Guest:I don't go there.
Guest:I would just much rather be a witch and just be like, I'm going to die one day and I'm going to be like 99 and my skin's going to be like bark and my hair is going to be like 100 feet long and I'm going to become a ghost.
Marc:That's probably good.
Guest:Yeah, that rules.
Marc:I think you're going to be that.
Marc:I'll go with that.
Marc:I hope that for you.
Guest:Me too.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:like long i'm not going to be like my grandmothers are like beautiful wonderful old ladies who have hairdos like sprayed you know like sure steel magnolia like helmet heads yeah there's only like i think there's only two or three options at a certain age either you just let it go gray and wild or you do the three things yeah you gotta be like mod like harold and mod just like long white braids yeah yes very few uh women have the courage
Guest:Gotta do it.
Guest:That seems like the best.
Guest:Ruth Gordon from Quincy, Massachusetts, the town where my father is from.
Marc:Quincy, Massachusetts, that's the town where one of my leather jackets is from.
Marc:Seriously.
Marc:Cool.
Marc:I drove there to get it.
Guest:Where'd you get it?
Marc:Vanson.
What is that?
Marc:They make really good leather jackets for motorcycle people.
Marc:They're renowned American leather jacket makers in Quincy, Mass.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And they have a showroom there.
Marc:And I went.
Guest:Cool.
Marc:But where are we going with this?
Marc:Oh, your hair.
Marc:You're going to be old in your hair.
Marc:I'm for that.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:And that's the reason why you don't go to meaninglessness when you look in the air.
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:Because you want to live to an old age.
Marc:And that makes sense.
Guest:Yeah, I want to live to be really old.
Guest:And the one thing that scares me about it a little bit is that I don't know who will be with me.
Guest:That scares me because I don't know if I ever want to have kids.
Guest:So then I'm like, well, I better make a lot of friends and young ones.
Marc:I think that what you just said is your version of looking into the air and seeing meaninglessness.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, I don't know if I'm going to be alone or not.
Marc:And I should try to counter that now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Start collecting people.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Then the wild card is what if I outlive them all?
Guest:Right.
Marc:You'll be the one with the story to tell.
Marc:And by then, maybe you'll be comfortable.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:That's the other thing.
Marc:You'll be able to smoke pot by yourself and not freak out.
Guest:Oh, I can do that very easily.
Guest:I mean, I freak out sometimes, but I just ride it.
Marc:Yeah, that's right.
Marc:You just got to get through it, man.
Guest:I do.
Guest:It's weird.
Marc:The only way forward is through.
Marc:Is that how it goes?
Guest:I think the only way out is through.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Forward, that's fine.
Marc:Or the door, or go back the other way.
Guest:The door is through the forward out.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:No, but with drugs, you just sort of ride it out, man.
Guest:I really, I go through times where I'm like, I should not be smoking weed.
Guest:I look way too anxious.
Guest:But then I just think about that it's there and I want to smoke it really badly.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And I do smoke it.
Guest:And then I'll go through like 15 minutes of a very harsh freak out that is like acid in my heart.
Guest:Like it's bad, really emotional.
Guest:And then I'll be like, you're not going to feel this way in 10 minutes.
Guest:Don't even worry about it.
Marc:In 10 minutes, it's like everything's going to seem okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you'll be relaxed.
Guest:It's so cool.
Marc:And entertained by almost nothing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And just like, wow, I'm thinking.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I love it.
Guest:Sometimes, like the other night, I hit a really cool sweet spot where I felt like everything I said was exactly right.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:But all of the people I was talking to didn't seem like they felt that way.
Marc:They didn't understand.
Guest:Yeah, my husband was like, uh-huh.
Marc:There's the annoying stoned lady again.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So what did you study?
Marc:If it was not math, what was your thing?
Marc:What inspired you and made you the creative juggernaut that you are?
Guest:I studied, well, in college, I studied English and comparative lit.
Marc:Where you went to where?
Guest:Columbia.
Marc:Fancy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you did pretty well with your no math policy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you know what?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I always was like a B in math and then an A in English.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And then like really focused on like, how do I just get out of here?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Not that I didn't like my life, but I really wanted to become a performer.
Marc:And I always felt like- In high school, you knew you wanted to be a performer?
Guest:I knew always-
Marc:What kind of business were your parents in that invented you?
Guest:My dad's a poet and my mom is a raccoon potter.
Marc:Racco, that's the earthy one.
Guest:Yeah, you make porcelain pottery and then you fire it in a kiln and then you fire it in a newspaper.
Marc:It's sort of like, I don't know what it's gonna come out like.
Marc:I can only control so much.
Marc:It looks a little burnt, but I think that's the way it's supposed to look.
Guest:That's the way it's supposed to look.
Guest:Yeah, my mom set our woods on fire like 50 times.
Marc:With her kiln?
Guest:with her barrels because the kiln is contained but the barrels have fire coming out of them and she have both yes okay and she would like she's like a super neurotic woman who would set the pots on fire in the woods on purpose but then of course the woods were like brambly and wild and they would catch on fire but she didn't have a permit yeah to be firing the pot so she'd be like girls girls fire and then we would all like run out with buckets of water and like put it out
Marc:And did that add to the quality of the pot?
Marc:Like, you know, I don't think I could have gotten this texture had we not caught the woods on fire.
Guest:There's something about my mom that wants to make danger all the time.
Marc:With pottery.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That's the way she does it, I guess.
Marc:Really?
Marc:She makes danger with her art.
Marc:Just on the edge of chaos.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, did she ever get into kind of like integrating sticks and leaves into the pottery?
Marc:Like making holes?
Marc:And did she do something other than vessels?
Marc:Like hanging things?
Guest:She did like really 90s like collages.
Marc:With the ceramic pieces.
Guest:With chopsticks and ceramic pieces, and they really always bothered me, but she likes them, and they are around our house a lot.
Marc:Are they in other people's homes?
Guest:Yeah, because most of my childhood, she was traveling.
Guest:She would go in crafts fairs and take orders and sell the art.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:There's a couple approaches to the pottery thing.
Marc:There are the practical potters who make vessels for everyday use.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And then there's the art potters.
Guest:She was an art potter.
Guest:But she also sold them in Neiman Marcus and stuff when they had a gallery there.
Marc:Oh, so she was working it.
Guest:She worked it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, she did her best.
Guest:I mean, I love her pottery.
Marc:I don't like the collages, but I love the... And your dad was in his study looking out on the yard saying, the woods are on fire.
Marc:My wife's pots...
Guest:My wife, my daughters, my fire.
Guest:Ceramics.
Guest:He taught at the University of Madison, Wisconsin, the Badgers.
Guest:And then when my older sister was born, which was in Wisconsin, he got a job working for writing speeches for the head of a dude of a computer company called Wang.
Marc:Wang, I remember Wang computers.
Marc:Yeah, and like Mr. Wang.
Marc:No end to the humor to Wang.
Marc:I mean, please.
Marc:Mr. Wang.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wang Center, downtown Boston.
Guest:Yeah, the Wang Center.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:My dad.
Marc:Did you see some shows at the Wang Center?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:I saw Grind with the Wind.
Guest:I saw the film.
Marc:Ah.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Marc:With the reissue, the reprint.
Guest:I went with my grandfather.
Guest:Yeah, my dad, like this is the crux of my stand-up, but my dad spent like the majority of my childhood in a nightgown, like a big long pink nightshirt nightgown that said Wang on it.
Marc:That was what he wore?
Guest:To sleep, yeah.
Marc:That's what you saw him in in the morning?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when he was going to bed?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Wang.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Wang.
Guest:I mean, it's like, I have like a good 45 minutes on that.
Marc:Well, yeah.
Marc:I mean, I could see how it could be both funny and traumatic.
Guest:Not traumatic at all.
Guest:I guess if you don't know any different.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Like, but then you go to school and you're like,
Guest:my dad fell down all the stairs and he was wearing his night shirt and we all saw his butt and everyone's like, your dad wears a nightgown?
Marc:It says Wang on it.
Marc:Is he a published poet?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:He won the Bread Loaf Award, which is like a big poetry award.
Marc:I enjoy some poetry occasionally.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:You would like his poems.
Guest:They're in the New Yorker and they're good.
Marc:He's really wonderful.
Marc:Do you like poetry?
Guest:Yeah, I do.
Marc:Do you have to?
Guest:No.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:He doesn't care.
Marc:He doesn't.
Guest:I think he would be upset if I wasn't, if I didn't read.
Marc:No, I think that would be upsetting to everybody.
Marc:That's like bad.
Guest:Yeah, that's bad.
Guest:That's like bad.
Marc:But poetry, I'm not great at spelling, I'm finding on Twitter.
Marc:I'm not either.
Marc:But poetry is like, I think it's easy to sort of dismiss it or be condescending, but it's a tough racket to kind of get those words to work like that.
Marc:It takes a certain, like it's one of those things where people are like, yeah, any of you can write a poem.
Marc:Oh, if that's true.
Guest:No, I don't think it's.
Guest:I mean, people think that about photography, too, I guess.
Marc:Well, that was a big problem with photography.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Once they released the Brownie McGee cameras, everyone who was already about it was like, now what?
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now it's ruined.
Marc:See that person across the street taking a picture of her son?
Marc:She ruined everything.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:A lot of people ruined everything, but it's actually all fine.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, look, it's leveled the playing field.
Marc:Now everybody can do whatever they want and put it up for everybody to see.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:It makes the world better.
Guest:Yeah, the only thing that matters now are our intentions.
Guest:Welcome to the future.
Marc:Oh, our intentions and our visibility.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:Well, my dad, he worked in the business world for most of my childhood to make money and didn't have his first big success until he was like 50.
Marc:Oh, that's encouraging.
Guest:Yeah, it's cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:As a poet.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:With the bread loaf award.
Guest:Yeah, he had a long... Sometimes poets take some time.
Guest:He had a long period of not... I don't know if I should... I'm not sure if I'm correct, but I think not being able to really write what he wanted to write.
Guest:But he used to, like when they lived in Wisconsin, he had a poetry magazine called The Chowder Review and...
Marc:Well, he could always write what he wants to write.
Marc:It's just like, where is it going to go?
Marc:I think who was that?
Marc:There was another big poet who I believe was an insurance salesman.
Marc:Wallace Stevens, I think, was one of these.
Guest:Well, Wallace Stevens is who our dog was named after.
Marc:Okay, there you go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That makes sense.
Guest:His name was Wally, and he hated my dad, and he hated all of us.
Marc:But like as a sort of barometer for your dad's life, Wallace Stevens was probably- He was a businessman.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So your dad knew that.
Marc:Yes, he did.
Marc:Your dad is sort of like, you know, he was like, well, that guy didn't make it till he was, that guy did.
Marc:He was the hope.
Marc:Wallace Stevens was your father's hope.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:My dad's like, he knows, he's the person that I think, except for maybe bugs, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like he knows everything.
Yeah.
Marc:His blind spot are insects.
Guest:Like he'll be like he couldn't he'll know stuff about like poetic bugs, you know, like, oh, like the praying mantis, like the female eats the male after mating.
Guest:Like he'll know something like that.
Guest:It's like kind of like sexual and interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he doesn't, you know, and he'll know about like beetles and stuff like that.
Guest:But I think my dad, I my impression of him is that he knows the answer to so many questions.
Guest:Almost all of them.
Marc:It's good to have a dad like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then he's also like really open and sensitive and I'll call him and be like, I don't know, man.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:And he'll be like, how can you know, Jen?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:How can you know?
Guest:Then I'll be like, oh, phew.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I'm in the car.
Guest:I have to go.
Marc:Thanks for talking me through the first 10 minutes of my high.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Does your dad ever say that?
Marc:Are you stoned, Jen?
Guest:Oh, I think I smoked a little bit too much pot around my parents when I went to visit them recently.
Marc:Oh, so there's a concern.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, I just was so relaxed and I just kept wanting to get stoned.
Marc:Like at dinner?
Guest:Like at everything.
Marc:And you were just smoking it in front of them?
Guest:Well, yeah, but they don't mind.
Guest:I think if I smoked a cigarette in front of them, they would be like, what are you, fucking idiot?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'd be like, yes.
Marc:Do you smoke cigarettes?
Guest:Yeah, sometimes.
Guest:I'm definitely trying to stop.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:It's really hard.
Guest:I don't want to.
Guest:I don't think it's like cool.
Guest:But the other day I someone took a picture of me and I put it on my Instagram and I was smoking in the picture and I thought it was a nice picture of myself.
Guest:So I wanted it to be there.
Guest:And then somebody somebody that I looked and saw who they were like, you're the best or whatever.
Guest:And it was like a teenager.
Guest:And I just was like, oh, no, why are you doing that?
Guest:Don't smoke.
Marc:Don't do that.
Marc:You should put that at the bottom of the picture.
Guest:But you know what?
Marc:I love smoking.
Marc:Yeah, I did too.
Marc:Yeah, I smoked Marlboro Lights.
Marc:Yeah, I smoked a lot of things.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I smoked Marlboro Lights towards the end.
Guest:So you don't smoke cigarettes anymore?
Marc:Do not.
Guest:That's really good.
Marc:It's been a long time.
Marc:I don't do anything anymore.
Guest:No drinking?
Marc:Nothing.
Marc:So, okay, you go to Columbia.
Marc:The world is your oyster.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, it kind of felt like that.
Marc:Yeah, and you're in New York City.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you're going to study comparative lit and English.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:English literature, comparative literature.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And now you're on the Upper West Side.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And you're like, fuck it.
Guest:I was like, I thought I wanted to be like Felicity.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:How'd that go?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it's never what you think it'll be.
Guest:I was like, look at me.
Guest:I'm like a young 18-year-old with limited experiences in every way, and I have long curly hair, and I'm just wearing a big sweater.
Marc:Don't you love wearing sweaters in college?
Guest:Yep.
Marc:The best.
Guest:Loved it.
Marc:The fall?
Marc:Mm.
Guest:It was cool, but then I kind of got like a weird look that was like Jewy Shakira.
Guest:It was like low riding pants and a belly button pierce.
Guest:You did that?
Guest:Yeah, that's what I had.
Guest:Gross.
Guest:Yeah, I was like kind of, I'm Erykah Badu, but I'm Jewish, but like I'm Shakira as well, but like I'm Felicity.
Guest:And like it was like just the way that my best friend Gabe described it was like gypsy chic.
Guest:But I was also like a virgin cock tease.
Marc:I know Gabe.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, he did your show.
Marc:The live one.
Marc:He did a live one.
Marc:It was very funny.
Guest:Yeah, he's the best.
Marc:And he was in the movie with you and he was your comedy partner from what I understand.
Marc:See, I was already out of New York by the time you kids were, you know, cutting your teeth.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Making the scene.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But the literature thing, what was your focus?
Guest:It ended up being pretty split.
Guest:I got really into Dickensian London and infectious diseases and really into how...
Guest:Just like smallpox and cholera and stuff like that.
Guest:The weight of it.
Guest:Yeah, well, like, God, I feel like I was just talking about this.
Marc:Maybe it was when you interrupted your husband while he was working.
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:But I had like one class that I felt like shaped everything, and it was Wolf, Yates, and Auden.
Guest:And that was everything to me.
Marc:Thomas Wolfe?
Guest:Virginia Woolf.
Marc:Virginia Woolf.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yates and.
Marc:There's a few Wolves.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Wolves, Yates, and Auden.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Interesting.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:How did that all work together?
Guest:It's sort of like people who were used to a certain structure and then shell shock and World War I changed everything and how structures started to fall apart because of our emotions and how we try to keep them together, but should we or should we not?
Guest:And it's very interesting.
Guest:Transitional times.
Guest:Yeah, and really beautiful.
Guest:And I got really into that.
Guest:And then I didn't have to write a thesis.
Guest:So I didn't really have to focus on anything.
Guest:But I got really interested in magical realism, because it's beautiful.
Guest:I really liked anything that just represented like an open heart and unmanageable emotions.
Marc:Yeah, that seems to be, is that on your resume?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:God, I don't have a resume.
Guest:I haven't seen a resume in years.
Marc:No, I don't have one.
Guest:I had one for waitressing.
Marc:I passed around.
Marc:Yeah, after a certain point, they're not necessary.
Guest:No.
Marc:You can just say, well, you can go online and see the thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're like, fucking get on the computer, dum-dum.
Marc:Which Yeats poem?
Guest:I guess I always loved Lita and the Swan.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:But.
Marc:Not like Ode to a Grecian Urn or The Second Coming, The Second Coming.
Marc:I like that a lot.
Marc:Come on, The Second Coming.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like things are not good in that poem.
Guest:Things fall apart.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:God damn it.
Guest:Yeah, things fall apart.
Marc:I can see why you avoided that one.
Marc:I mean-
Guest:I don't, I don't.
Guest:Sometimes people think that because I'm cheery or whatever that it means that I'm like silly or repressed.
Guest:But honestly, I just think it's the opposite.
Marc:That's weird.
Marc:I would never associate that.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:With those character traits.
Marc:Like because you're silly.
Marc:And what was the other one?
Marc:Cheery.
Marc:Because I'm silly and cheery.
Marc:No, I would immediately go paralyzed with fear and occasionally sad.
Guest:I am occasionally sad.
Guest:I'm not paralyzed with fear, but I would say that I feel very lonely often.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Even among people?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, not among people.
Marc:But if there's an hour or two where there's no people around, it's sort of like, oh.
Guest:Yeah, I feel sad like a puppy, like a dog looking out the window.
Marc:You need a connection.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that also made it hard, I think, to have proper relationships with people.
Marc:Because too needy.
Guest:Yeah, too needy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm drained right now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm really sorry.
Guest:You asked me to come here.
Guest:You invited me.
Marc:I'm the same way.
Marc:You are?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, what do you think?
Marc:Why am I doing this?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This is what I do now.
Marc:Right.
Guest:It's good.
Marc:It's just because I need to connect with people and feel like if you were just sort of rambling off and not actually engaging with me, it'd be horrible.
Marc:It'd just be me pounding up against your boundaries.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Saying like, why don't you let me in and identify with me?
Guest:I can't let you pound up against my boundaries.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:You're married.
Marc:It's just wrong.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's just not right.
Guest:That's not what I'm like.
Guest:I told you I'm an old fashioned person.
Marc:I'm a boundary pounder.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I just, I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, but I tend to look at all of those things as like, because I think I went through a time of being embarrassed of
Guest:Being naturally lonely by nature, but I also think that there is something really great about it because I know how to use it in the way that is useful for me.
Marc:Well, I think there is something about like even in I don't know a lot of your stand up work, but just in your disposition, like in the movie Obvious Child.
Marc:I mean, they're there.
Marc:It's not a depressive loneliness.
Marc:It's sort of like it's full of an aggravated excitement to be part of something.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:That's a really nice way to put it.
Guest:I think, yeah, it's like...
Guest:how can loneliness also be a total celebration of being alive?
Guest:But that is what it's like.
Guest:And it's like when I, I've never, I know I never have like made a standup album or toured and, but when I do my standup, it's,
Guest:It's just a need to connect.
Guest:But not like, I'm very careful, I think, of making sure that it's not masturbatory.
Guest:Like, it's just, I'm just like.
Marc:No masturbation jokes.
Guest:No, tons of masturbation jokes.
Guest:But it's like, do you want to like, can I tell you stuff?
Guest:Like, do you want to know stuff?
Marc:It's a framing.
Marc:It's a context.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, I'm the same way.
Marc:The problem that I had early on was like, I had this need to connect, but I didn't trust the connection.
Guest:Yeah, that's why I got stage fright.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I didn't I didn't get stage fright.
Marc:I'd be preemptively aggravated with the audience.
Marc:Oh, like my opposed to being stage fright.
Marc:I'd walk out going, well, this is going to suck.
Marc:And there's why would they like me?
Marc:And now I walk out ready to sort of defend myself.
Guest:Right.
Marc:To fight.
Guest:And I would walk out.
Guest:I had the same thing, except I think I tend to turn it on myself.
Guest:So instead of like, well, these fucking assholes, they don't even like me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it would just be like, I'm such a. I turn it on myself, but that seems to be established.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:That's a given.
Marc:Now let's take on the rest of these idiots.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sometimes I think I would have an attitude that would be like, I like myself.
Guest:Fuck you.
Guest:Just give me a chance.
Guest:And it would be like, nobody said anything.
Guest:You're the person who's supposed to be talking.
Marc:The defense of liking yourself is the first sign.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:I'm good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Crying.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you're like, what?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what was, so you did well in college.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did.
Marc:And that's where you started doing the sketches and whatnot?
Guest:Yeah, I started doing improv.
Guest:That's where I met Gabe Liedman.
Guest:In an improv group?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:In college?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Actually, auditioning for this stupid, well, I probably shouldn't say that, because I'm sure it meant a lot to me at the time, but it's this thing that they do at Columbia called the Varsity Show, which is kind of like the Harvard Hasty Pudding.
Guest:It's like a musical comedy about college, so it's like a lot of inside jokes about the chicken fingers in the snack bar or whatever.
Guest:There was literally a song about chicken fingers.
Marc:I get it it's regional within the college this is all like oh they're talking about that cafeteria right yeah so that's how Gabe and I met auditioning for that and it was like fast friends
Guest:Yes, it was like immediate.
Guest:The first time we hung out, we got really stoned.
Guest:And there was a website called Cosmo.com.
Guest:And you can order anything.
Guest:You could be like, I need a toothbrush.
Guest:I need like a pineapple.
Guest:And I need ET on VHS.
Guest:And so we were like, sweet, we need Doritos.
Guest:And we need, actually, we were looking for ET.
Guest:We're looking for ET.
Marc:And it come within hours or?
Guest:Well, I don't know because it never worked because we kept typing in ET and it just kept saying, did you mean tank girl?
Guest:We were like, no, we don't fucking mean tank girl.
Guest:And so we went on like a adventure to try to go to the Blockbuster to get ET.
Guest:But we took us like a really long time to get there because we took the train the wrong way and we were just like too stoned to do everything right.
Guest:And when we got there, we finally found ET and then neither one of us had an account.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that was, you know, from then on we were best friends.
Marc:It's about the journey.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:That was the first time?
Marc:That was the first time we hung out.
Marc:And then you started, when did you start just performing solo or outside of the group?
Guest:Gabe and I, we were like in a sketch group with some of the people from the improv group that we were eventually in in college when we graduated in 2004.
Guest:And then some of those people wanted to like get other degrees and stuff.
Guest:So we started doing stand-up as a duo at Rafifi.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Um, and then, um, and then we started doing standup separately.
Guest:Also, I would say like maybe a year into that.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So Rafifi was where, what bring your friends or what bringing them up or invite them up, invite them up.
Marc:Merman's empire.
Guest:Bobby and Eugene.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Bobby and Eugene sort of put that place on the map.
Guest:Yeah, they did.
Marc:That was after I left.
Marc:I remember doing one or two shows there when I went back.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it was like a significant alt comedy venue.
Marc:It was a hive.
Guest:Yeah, it was everything.
Marc:Era that you were coming up in.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What year are we talking?
Guest:2005.
Marc:God damn it.
Marc:2006.
Marc:Jesus.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was like everything to just do.
Guest:They had a bit on Invite Them Up that was called 30 Seconds of Stand-Up.
Guest:And you were given 30 seconds to do stand-up.
Guest:And I remember the first time Gabe and I got that, and we were like, this is our big break.
Guest:It was like, you know, it sounds crazy.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:It went great.
Guest:And then it was like Nick Kroll and John Mulaney had the Thursday night show.
Guest:Greg Johnson had the Friday night, and Gabe and I eventually got them Monday night.
Marc:Where's Greg Johnson?
Guest:He's in New York.
Marc:Is he alright?
Guest:He rules.
Marc:Good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I love that guy.
Marc:He's a good guy.
Guest:He's really special and funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You haven't seen him in a while.
Marc:Alright, so you're doing solo stand-up.
Marc:You're what?
Marc:20?
Guest:22.
Guest:23.
Marc:And he's still... Because I don't know you as a stand-up.
Guest:Yeah, because I just do it for fun.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Which is weird.
Guest:All of my friends make albums, and I'm not bad at stand-up.
Guest:I think I'm good at it, but I just have never wanted to do albums because it makes me feel scared to say something and not be able to say it again.
Marc:Oh, I get it, because it's already done.
Guest:And I kind of like to, I do talk, you know, say the same stories like again and again, but I just, I like to say them differently to the new people every time.
Marc:No, I'm on board with that, yeah.
Guest:But sometimes my husband's like, why do you do that?
Guest:Like, you're gonna really regret this.
Guest:Like, you should really record this, and I just don't want to.
Guest:I'm like, you know what?
Marc:Well, you can record it for yourself.
Guest:Sometimes I record my sets and I listen to them in the car on the way to a new show.
Guest:But yeah, I loved that time.
Guest:But looking back on it, I feel very romantic about it.
Guest:But at the time, also, it was really hard, obviously.
Marc:Why?
Guest:Just because I was like unemployed.
Guest:And really, I got into stand-up, but I always just wanted to be a movie actress.
Guest:And then I just became a stand-up comedian and was like, oh, this is like, and I've always felt like I'm kind of a storyteller and kind of just like a talker.
Marc:When did the opportunity start to happen?
Guest:In 2009, I was like, okay, this is really weird.
Guest:This sounds stupid, but why not?
Guest:So I was mostly doing stand-up with Gabe.
Marc:Team thing.
Guest:Yeah, and also separate.
Guest:And then we had a show, I believe we had it then, called Big Terrific with Max Silvestri.
Marc:I remember that.
Marc:I remember Max.
Marc:It's still there.
Marc:Max is in an unreleased WTF.
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:He's the best.
Guest:We should have him for a real one.
Guest:I think he's one of the funniest.
Guest:But anyway, so I think we were doing that then.
Guest:If not, it was still called At Night with Gabe and Jenny.
Guest:But anyway, we're doing it.
Guest:I went to see this psychic.
Guest:this like tarot card reader.
Guest:And I do this kind of stuff.
Guest:I used to do it, now I don't.
Guest:That she was like, you need to get all of your characters out there.
Guest:And I was like, yeah, I don't do sketch.
Guest:I don't do that.
Guest:And she was like, no, you did though, didn't you?
Guest:And I was like, well, yeah, I guess you're right.
Guest:She was like, you need to do it because otherwise you're just gonna, you're gonna feel nailed to a spot and you need to do it and get them out and put them onto a stage.
Guest:And if you do that, she was like, you need to do that
Guest:by the winter, and if you do that, by August you'll be offered the big stage, and then by September you're gonna be calling me, and you're gonna need help, but it's gonna be okay.
Guest:And I was like, this is like terrifying.
Marc:Well I like that she was forward thinking.
Marc:She put a calendar on it.
Marc:Yeah, here's my card.
Guest:It was like crazy, so I was like, all right.
Guest:And then I started to, my husband and I were together at that point, and I was like, I wanna do a one woman show, but I hate that they're called that.
Guest:So I'm going to do like a one lady show.
Guest:And the only thing I could think of was like, what would it be like if I died right now?
Guest:And I died as an eccentric millionaire.
Guest:And so I made a show called Jenny Slate Dead Millionaire that was, it took place at my funeral.
Guest:And it was that I was an eccentric millionaire and I'd left all of my money to the dog.
Guest:And I eulogized myself in all different characters, including like Gloria Estefan, who claimed that I had bought her a new bus after her old bus ran her over.
Guest:I used to think that's what happened.
Guest:Because you know she got in like a big bus accident.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I used to think that she got run over by her own bus.
Guest:But that's not what happened.
Guest:But anyway.
Guest:And I had a video, Will, that I like made with my husband.
Guest:And he made these beautiful, really weird, high concept videos.
Guest:And we did the show at UCB.
Guest:Which I wasn't really a part of.
Guest:But they were nice enough to let me do it.
Guest:So I did that.
Guest:And then like a week later...
Guest:um it was up in like may and i did it for a week and then um i had one and then the second one i guess somebody from snl like heard about it and they came and then a week after that i had my audition for snl and also at that time just randomly i um got hired to be in these sketches on late night with jimmy fallon when in their first season and had gotten on board to death and
Guest:I had just, like, stumbled into an audition for Bored to Death, which was on HBO, as, like, a cashier.
Marc:And then... And that was recurring.
Guest:Well, yeah, somebody had liked me, and then they, like, wrote me into the show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:As far as I understand.
Guest:And that's all I got, an agent also, because I worked with Jason Schwartzman on that first day, and he was like, oh, you know, like, this is really fun.
Guest:Let's work together again.
Guest:Who's your agent?
Guest:And I was, like, really embarrassed and was like, I don't have an agent.
Guest:I'm just here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so he sent his agent to come and see me.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:And that's how I got an agent too.
Guest:So that, so kind of like all this weird shit happened.
Marc:Did you like working with Jonathan Ames?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's like a weirdo.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, he knows that he is.
Marc:No, he's made a living on it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Marc:But I never felt- So it all sort of happened in a flurry.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Within a six-month period.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it was just sort of the heat was on.
Guest:But like, just that I started working.
Guest:It didn't at all feel like- No, but those are big- I got my break.
Guest:No, those are, well, okay.
Guest:At least I was off unemployment.
Guest:You know, I wasn't a nanny.
Marc:I think that's a nice way to frame it, but I think in retrospect- Yeah.
Marc:You can see it as a break.
Yeah.
Guest:I know it's just so weird because it's only now that I feel a little bit more like I've gotten a break.
Marc:Now, this is a thematic element of my show.
Marc:So who came to see you from SNL?
Marc:Marcy?
Guest:Ayala Cohen, I believe.
Marc:And so that process is a big deal.
Marc:I think what's interesting, before I let that go, just for people that are listening and learning, is that you did a fairly peculiar and very abstract one-person show.
Guest:Yes, I did.
Marc:And you committed to it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You had this conceit that I would have been like, that's crazy.
Marc:And you locked in and you built around it.
Marc:You built something out of nothing based on ridiculousness.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it was great.
Guest:I think so.
Guest:I thought it was really beautiful and it was really high concept.
Guest:There's so many fucking shitty one people shows where they're just like, these are all my voices that I could do.
Guest:These are my wigs.
Guest:And you're just like...
Marc:cool who doesn't know this guy fun yeah man like you're just like i don't want to watch this right this audition so i had a through line yeah like i i just did it because this psychic was like do it did you involve her in the show no um have you gone back to her yes okay so that's we're gonna end with that but um all right so what happens with the snl audition process
Guest:So they were like, you, I can't remember if I had to put in a tape.
Guest:I don't think I did.
Guest:Sometimes they make you send in a tape and then you can get, um, um, an audition.
Guest:But I believe I just went right in, but I only had a week and I was like, not from the groundlings or UCB.
Guest:Like I didn't have polished characters that you've done over and over again.
Guest:Right, and also, like, I was 26, I believe, or 27.
Guest:I think I was 27.
Guest:And I didn't think that they were going to hire anyone anyway because they had just hired Abby Elliott and Michaela Watkins.
Guest:And I just thought I missed my chance and that I was, like, honestly just not...
Guest:I mean, in the end, I was right, but just not right for the show.
Guest:And I had a week to put together these characters.
Guest:I had to do five, and two of them had to be impressions.
Guest:And so I just was like, well, fuck it.
Guest:I mean, I'm not going to try to figure out what they want, because then I'll end up on the show, and I'm going to be tasked with...
Guest:keeping up the appearance of being an imposter, basically, and trying to do normal characters when I'm not interested in that.
Guest:I don't know what normal is, but whatever.
Marc:But you didn't want to hack it out.
Marc:You didn't want to just sort of like, well, everybody likes this thing, and I'm going to do a thing like that because that's relatable.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Like, what's the game of this character?
Guest:And it's like, I don't care.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't fucking know.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:That's not why I perform.
Marc:What kind of language is that?
Marc:What?
Marc:What's the game of this character?
Guest:I think it's like improv language.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:you know.
Guest:But so I put together the audition and I was just like super scared and I took the B train from Brooklyn to Rockefeller Center and that was what was kind of cool and maybe this is cheesy but I had always wanted to be on SNL since I was very very young.
Guest:I wanted to be both like movie actress like Madeline Kahn and Ruth Gordon and also wanted to be like Gilda Radner and Lorraine Newman.
Guest:That's like I just wanted it always.
Guest:And I
Marc:All those make sense for you.
Guest:Yeah, no, they're cool.
Guest:And they're right.
Guest:And they're all women that have like a cool style and can't be replaced.
Guest:And I just was like, I want that.
Marc:They're all funny.
Guest:And they're very funny.
Marc:Defined funny.
Guest:And full of joy and full of life.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And anyway, so I used to, my therapist was one stop after Rockefeller Center.
Guest:And he used to like ride through and be like, one day I'll get off here.
Guest:One day I'll get off here.
Marc:Sounds like the beginning of a movie.
Guest:Yeah, kind of, except like a really short one or really long one year long movie.
Guest:one movie that is one year long and nobody wants to watch it but so I did the five characters and I performed on the stage and I remember they like put you in a dressing room and I was like so scared
Guest:I don't know if I've ever been that scared, terrified, got up.
Guest:We did the audition on the stage and they were just like, nobody's going to laugh.
Guest:So just do it and leave.
Guest:And like, don't try to kiss up.
Guest:Don't try to like talk to Lauren, just like do your shit and leave.
Guest:And I remember being like, fine, I will do my shit and leave because I have a life.
Guest:And at the end of the day, like I'm going to shit into a toilet and so is everyone else here.
Guest:And so like,
Marc:Lauren's going to shit on a much nicer toilet.
Guest:Well, sure.
Guest:And then he's going to get like water sprayed up onto it.
Guest:Whereas like, you know, I'm going to like do normal stuff.
Marc:He'd probably have to switch over to that bowl.
Marc:Do you think like, so you do, he shits in one bowl and then he goes to the bidet or maybe he's got like a special one.
Marc:I get to make those.
Guest:Who could know?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Who could ever know?
Guest:You know, he's a mystery.
Marc:I'll ask him if I ever get the chance.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Let's talk about your toilet.
Marc:The gold one.
Guest:I did it.
Guest:And then everyone laughed.
Guest:And I was like, uh, okay.
Guest:And then I was like, they're nicer than everyone says.
Guest:And they laughed at everyone.
Guest:I heard them laughing at everyone.
Guest:It wasn't just me.
Guest:And so I was like, are people just trying to make this be a scary place?
Guest:And then I was just like, hey, at least I got to stand on that stage.
Right.
Guest:So whatever.
Guest:And then I just took the subway home.
Guest:But I remember when I left, I shook Lauren's hand and I shook Seth Meyers hand.
Guest:And I just remember like they both smiled.
Guest:And I was like a thing that I've said over and over again to my mom, because she's like, why do the animals always come and walk on our lawn like the foxes and the deer?
Guest:And I'll be like, because humans aren't natural predators.
Guest:And I think they know that.
Guest:And she'll always be like, they don't know that.
Guest:But I think, I was like, oh, yeah, they're not mean.
Guest:They're not like trying to hurt my feelings.
Guest:And then that was in June, I think.
Guest:And like the first week of June.
Guest:And then I had all summer.
Guest:And I moved to LA for the summer because I had an agent for the first time.
Guest:And I worked on like a terrible TV show where I was.
Marc:Congratulations.
Guest:It was real bad.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Bad three camera.
Guest:And I was like, this is cool.
Guest:I liked it.
Guest:What show was that?
Guest:It was called Brothers starring Michael Strahan and CCH Pounder and Carl Weathers.
Guest:And I was the one white person on it.
Guest:And I was like that crazy white bitch who was like, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
Guest:It was like, what is this?
Guest:This is the worst.
Guest:But I liked it because it was working.
Guest:And then August, they were like, Lauren wants you to come back and audition again.
Guest:And I was like, are you fucking kidding me?
Guest:They had to do all new characters.
Guest:And so I did that.
Marc:But you didn't say no.
Guest:No.
Guest:I was like, you can't.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, who would say no?
Marc:Right.
Guest:I mean, now, now I'd say no.
Guest:But, you know, so I went back and I did it again, new characters.
Guest:And I walked in and I had like a big bag of wigs.
Guest:And Seth was like, I am very excited to see what comes out of that bag.
Guest:And I just remember going, me too.
Guest:And I was like, why did I say that?
Guest:But I was excited.
Guest:I think somebody else that I knew was there.
Guest:Maybe Colin, maybe, I don't know if it was...
Guest:I didn't really know Colin Jost.
Guest:It might have been John Mulaney.
Guest:But anyway, I did it again.
Guest:And then I waited a week.
Guest:And then they were like, Lauren wants you to come back to meet with him.
Guest:But it doesn't mean that you're hired.
Guest:And don't expect anything.
Guest:And you'll probably wait for like three hours to see him and just like sit there.
Guest:And I was like, oh, okay.
Guest:This is so psycho.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I went through this, yeah.
Guest:Okay, so yeah, so then I went there, but then I didn't wait.
Guest:I just got there, and Nassim was also there, Nassim Pedrad, and I waited for like 10 minutes, and then I went in there, and he asked me- Who was in the room?
Guest:Lauren.
Marc:Just Lauren.
Guest:Yeah, in his office.
Guest:And he was like, where are you from?
Guest:And I said, Massachusetts.
Guest:And he was like, have you worked with wigs a lot before?
Guest:And I thought he meant Kristen Wiig.
Guest:And I was like, I've never even met her, but I really admire her.
Guest:And he was like, no wigs.
Guest:And I was like, oh, this sucks.
Guest:Like, I was like...
Guest:But I just kept telling myself, like, he's just a man.
Guest:He's just a man.
Guest:Like, you have so much life in front of you.
Guest:That's all that matters.
Guest:Don't worry about it.
Guest:And so I was like, oh, der.
Guest:And I remember saying, like, oh, no, sorry.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:No.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've worked with, like, wigs in my one-person show, but I don't, like...
Guest:do that a lot I don't have any with me yeah I was like I'm you know here and there but I would be very comfortable with them and then he was like well I think you'd be a great addition to the show and we're gonna get you in office and I was like so I wanted him to say it so I was like so I'm gonna be on Saturday Night Live and he was like
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, that's so great.
Guest:And I was like, I know you've probably you've seen this like happen a million times before where people are like, I can't believe it.
Guest:But this is my childhood dream.
Guest:And I'm so excited.
Guest:And he was like, OK, well, don't tell anybody because, you know, we haven't announced it yet.
Guest:And I was like, can I tell my nanas?
Guest:And then he laughed and he was like, how old are your nanas?
Guest:And I was like, they're this age.
Guest:And
Guest:Then and he laughed and I was like, can I give you a hug?
Guest:And he was like, sure.
Guest:And then we hugged and I went outside and Seth was waiting there.
Guest:And he was like, well, what did he say?
Guest:And I said, he said, I'm going to be on the show.
Guest:And Seth was like, whoa, that doesn't really happen.
Guest:And I said, he said I could have an office and stuff.
Guest:And then Seth was like, let's try and go find John Mulaney.
Guest:So we went into the offices and because I knew John and we couldn't find him.
Guest:And and then.
Guest:I was like, well, I'm going to go.
Guest:And then I went outside and I went into the courtyard of Rockefeller Center and whoops, I'm getting emotional.
Guest:I called my parents and I said, I'm going to be on Saturday Night Live.
Guest:And it was really exciting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where are my Kleenexes?
Guest:I don't need any.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:I never cry when I just... You know what?
Guest:It is a beautiful story and sometimes I forget that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Now I'm crying.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:I had Kleenex.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Because it is like cool to achieve something that you've always wanted and to do it kind of on your terms.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:To call my parents like...
Guest:They were just so stunned.
Guest:We were all so stunned.
Guest:I came from this fucking haunted house with these two artists with the woods on fire and just had this one dream and went to college and didn't become an asshole.
Guest:did that and it didn't I was there for just the right amount of time but you know to just call them and make that phone call right honestly I forget about that right and it was really really meaningful yeah yeah amazing it's a great story
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Marc:That it was so, you know, beat for beat.
Marc:Like it wasn't convoluted.
Marc:No.
Marc:And Seth was like, what?
Guest:Yeah, it was so cool.
Guest:And it was like, and also it's like, there's Seth Meyers.
Guest:He's like this like handsome man that I just had seen on TV for so long, you know?
Guest:And he's like nicer than you ever think he would be.
Marc:Very nice guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I was just like, so, but then I was so scared.
Marc:When you went to work?
Guest:yeah yeah then I was so scared because there was this whole thing of like everybody's saying no one's gonna tell you anything so everybody told you all this stuff and none of it to this point turned out to be true right yeah because you have a lot of reps like you know agents and managers being like they're not gonna do this they're not gonna do that like or like I never read any of those books but you get the sense that people are like it's really hard for women and I didn't feel that way
Guest:And then in a bummer way, I've been misquoted a bunch of times saying that they didn't like me as a woman.
Guest:But that is not true.
Guest:Nobody was ever like, sit down, little girl.
Guest:Everyone was nice to me.
Marc:And how many shows did you do?
Guest:I did the season.
Guest:So 26, I think.
Marc:That's exciting, right?
Guest:Yeah, it was, I mean, it's all of it.
Guest:It's exciting, terrifying, exhilarating.
Guest:It felt a lot like, like...
Guest:If I hadn't been on it, I would still be trying to be on it now at 32.
Guest:I would always try to be on it because it was my dream.
Guest:But it's like getting to... I wish I didn't have to do a sexual metaphor for it, but sometimes I make everything into a satisfaction situation.
Guest:It's like getting to sleep with that really hot person that you're like, they're so wrong for me.
Guest:I'll be my worst self around them.
Guest:I'll always try to be so hot and so perfect around them.
Guest:And I will always, even if they consistently want to be with me, I'll always wonder if they still want to be with me the second after we're done.
Guest:That's what it was like.
Marc:I think that's reasonable.
Guest:Yeah, it's just like sucking a dick and then being like, now me.
Guest:And they're like, no, sorry.
Guest:Is what it's sort of like.
Marc:I'm tired.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They're like, oh, I don't do that.
Marc:I don't do that.
Marc:Oh, that's even worse.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it didn't end well or it did?
Guest:Well, looking back on it, it ended exactly as it should have ended.
Marc:That's the best way to look back on anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it really hurt my feelings when I got fired.
Marc:What was the story?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know why I got fired.
Marc:But what did you do?
Guest:I think, I mean, well, first of all, obviously, my first episode was like a disaster because I said fuck, and I'm over talking about that.
Guest:That's what happened.
Guest:I said fuck by mistake in a sketch that I wrote.
Guest:And then what really sucked about that was that I became the girl that made a mistake when until then, I just kind of lived my life my own way, and I was a stand-up.
Marc:You can say fuck.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:You can say fuck.
Guest:And also, who gives a shit?
Guest:I don't feel bad about it, and I'm not sorry.
Guest:I'm only sorry for how I treated myself.
Marc:You beat yourself up?
Guest:So much.
Guest:So bad.
Marc:After the first episode?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, it must have been just fucking awful.
Guest:It sucked.
Guest:I mean, everybody was so supportive.
Guest:Like, I remember even at the good night.
Marc:Was it unprecedented?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Like, I didn't know anything about what was going on.
Guest:It had never been on live TV.
Guest:It slipped out.
Guest:I was too comfortable and too excited.
Guest:And like, whatever.
Guest:The reason why I don't like talking about it is just because it's usually in a more traditional interview when people forget like everything else I've done and it bothers me and I don't like the idea of like, and I said this like to Terry Gross, which was like really scary, but I did.
Guest:And I was like, I just don't like the idea of like Seth Meyers or Bill Hader or Amy Poehler listening to this and thinking this is what I'm talking about when I've like done a lot since then.
Guest:And I've been, I've done those things I'm proud of on purpose.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, but anyway,
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I just think people, other people just seem to like fit in better.
Guest:Just they were more, but nobody's at ease.
Guest:I mean, even like Kristen would be like, I don't know, I'm nervous every week, you know.
Guest:But.
Marc:But you did stay there the entire season after.
Guest:I did and I did some things I'm really proud of like I love this like doorbell character that I did and I wrote a sketch for Betty White where she was going she's a lesbian and Amy Poehler was playing like an obvious young lesbian and everyone was like you know trying to make her be something she wasn't and it was like a total honor to write that for Amy and to be in that and
Guest:It was both positive and really, really hard because I was super abusive to myself.
Guest:I just, my husband said that it was like watching a bunch of football players stomp on a painting.
Guest:But I don't know who, I am the painting, you know, and the football players.
Marc:Half the football players.
Guest:Yeah, like he was like, whatever, like why do you even care?
Guest:Why do you care?
Guest:Just quit.
Marc:I know, but that's easy to answer.
Marc:It's the most important thing in your life.
Guest:Right.
Marc:It's like, you know, there's something you want to do your entire life.
Marc:And, you know, the thing about having a personality like that I share with you is that, you know, whether or not you admit it, you want desperately to be liked and you want desperately to connect and you want to do a good job.
Marc:And if you're not getting that feedback, you know, your natural tendency would be to be like, I'm not doing a good enough job.
Marc:They don't like me.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So it's a creative problem.
Marc:It's Achilles heel.
Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's sort of like the sense there, at least that what I erroneously assumed, because also I had like watched, you know, all the Gilda Radner shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I was like, I'm perfect for this because I'm wild at heart and I work off of joy.
Guest:And when I'm not happy and when I'm scared, like I don't do well.
Guest:So I was like, I'll be.
Guest:And my parents were always like, yeah, you're perfect for it because of that.
Guest:Like you can definitely do it.
Guest:And then I got there and I was like, oh, it's not, I don't want to call it a culture of fear, but it's a high stress environment.
Guest:And you almost have to earn the right to be operating off of joy only.
Guest:I don't know if anybody does that.
Guest:You're making, as Lauren said to me, and I don't think I'll ever forget it.
Guest:Like he was like, it's okay.
Guest:But like,
Guest:He was like, I'm going to pull you back now because I don't want this to be the first thing that everyone writes about you, you know, that you said fuck, which, by the way, it was.
Guest:And I think it's kind of over now.
Guest:But he was like, it takes a long time, at least three years, to become comfortable in the top of a skyscraper, in a skyscraper in the middle of New York City, in the middle of the night on live TV.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just remember being like, yeah, I guess that is what it is.
Guest:That is what we're doing here.
Guest:It's like fucking psycho.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Psycho job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm really glad that I only had to work there for a year.
Guest:And I think it's sort of a benevolent act that I got fired.
Guest:And I didn't really expect it until like at the end of the year.
Guest:I was like, all right, I had a rough go.
Guest:And I remember Seth saying to me like at the final party, he was like, you're going to be a force of nature next year.
Guest:And then I remember a week later suddenly having this feeling.
Guest:I was like, no, I'm not.
Guest:I'm going to get fired.
Guest:And then I just waited all summer to get fired.
Guest:And I went to France and got super fucking constipated and just couldn't take a shit in France.
Guest:And it sucked.
Guest:I was just eating tons of cheese and baguettes.
Marc:Connect the two?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think I just like held in my shit until I got fired.
Marc:And then you let it go.
Guest:And then I was just like, I just like broke 90 toilets in a row.
Marc:And you, you don't really, you never really investigated why or you have a sense of it.
Marc:It doesn't, not that it matters, but I mean, just for your own closure.
Guest:Well, what happened was I was in therapy and I got out and I went on my phone and I saw on Deadline Hollywood, which now I found out.
Guest:Yes, was that I was fired.
Guest:And so I called my agent, Sharon, and I was like, hi, Sharon.
Guest:Sharon Jackson?
Guest:Jackson.
Guest:And I was like, I just read that I got fired, but nobody called me.
Guest:I was like, I kind of expected, but I don't know.
Guest:Did I get fired?
Guest:And she was like, well, I haven't heard anything.
Guest:You know, let me check it out.
Guest:And then and she was like, but I did see deadline, you know, and she was like, I don't know.
Guest:Let's you know, let's not say yes or no yet.
Guest:And then she called me back and she was like, yeah, honey, you're fire or, you know, like you're not renewed, but it's OK.
Guest:And I was I started crying and I was like, I feel like somebody just put me in a hole like.
Guest:I'm so embarrassed.
Guest:But then it was like a huge sense of relief.
Guest:And then I just went to the supermarket and bought a lot of groceries and just started to bake and baked all these cookies and ordered pizza and invited my friends over and just smoked a ton of weed and was like, phew, man, I never have to do that again.
Guest:I never have to feel any of those feelings again.
Guest:And that I...
Guest:We'll never forget that.
Guest:And then I just wrote Seth a thank you note and said thank you because I really, really liked him.
Guest:And he's a great boss.
Guest:And then he called me and we talked.
Guest:And I don't know.
Guest:And then it was just over, for me at least.
Marc:Well, it sounds like in retrospect and in dealing with how you reacted to it and what you put yourself through during it and because of it was in your control.
Marc:And you don't have to do that again, no matter what the situation.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And also, it seems to me that, you know, the the experience was invaluable.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And and that, you know, you live through it and you did some great work.
Marc:But, you know, the biggest lesson is not only that you're professional, but that, you know, you don't have to ever treat yourself like that in any situation.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And I don't know that I would have learned that in such a like succinct.
Marc:Right.
Guest:lesson and by the time I was out it was like and also my husband and I had just made Marcel the shell and I realized like something in my nature which is like there is a deep well of just wanting to be alive like I get super pumped to go to bed at night because I'm excited to wake up in the morning and I love being alive and I was just like that is not a negligible part that's not a part of me that's like silly I'm putting that forward that's going to be the first thing
Marc:And also, alongside that, there's a well of creativity because, you know, Marcel the Shell, the film and the book, like the thing is, is that you were afforded this luxury in a way of not doing, you know, six or eight seasons of SNL.
Marc:Yeah, thank God.
Marc:Tapping out as a female performer, being typecast.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then, you know, sort of on the other side of it at 40 or 40.
Marc:Now, I'm not saying it's a negative thing, but then struggling to define your voice.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Like, you know, you were sort of afforded this luxury, though it was painful to sort of still have this time now as a relative unknown in terms of what you can do and what's ahead of you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:To really define yourself on your own terms.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:It's like really sort of a, you know, prototypical birth by fire.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:But it's cool.
Guest:And like.
Guest:That doesn't mean that I didn't get stage fright or whatever after, but fuck it.
Guest:And in general, if I looked into the future then and could see myself now, and especially after having made Obvious Child, making an independent film with these two women that I love so much and that make me feel better in every way about myself and make me feel excited...
Guest:And to just have full on done this, I would be proud of the specificity of this type of personal success.
Marc:No, it's amazing.
Marc:And I, you know, obviously you've done some TV and you've done some voices for animation and stuff.
Marc:But Obvious Child, you know, I watched it and I get a lot of stuff.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, people are like, go see it.
Marc:But I went on the movie.
Marc:You did?
Marc:Thanks.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I wasn't that familiar with you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And only because I'm relatively detached.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I am too.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And, you know, like that movie, I was like so excited when I left.
Marc:Like, that was great.
Marc:That girl's great.
Marc:I want to talk to her.
Guest:I'm so glad.
Yeah.
Guest:I'm really glad.
Marc:That was really, to be honest with you, was, you know, I'd heard some of the stuff, you know, in doing some research of what people told me, but that was my first experience with you as anything.
Guest:I'm lucky.
Guest:I'm glad.
Guest:That's the thing I'm the most proud of.
Marc:It's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I like the story.
Marc:I thought it was ballsy.
Marc:I thought you were great and you played that, you know, pretty fucking real.
Guest:Yeah, it is.
Marc:Well, there's a transition in that thing where you have to own these decisions that, you know, at least publicly are difficult.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you did it with with candor and with sincerity.
Marc:And, you know, and the logic, the emotional logic of it did not deter from the sweetness of the film.
Marc:And that was the biggest challenge of that movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Gillian Robespierre, the writer, director, she is so fucking smart.
Guest:She's just a sweetie too.
Guest:You know, she has become a very important person in my life.
Marc:And what, so that was, you know, I recommended it right after I saw it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So what's happening now?
Marc:Wait, how many siblings do you have?
Guest:Two.
Marc:How are they?
Guest:They're cool.
Guest:They're great.
Guest:One of them's at my house right now.
Marc:Older or younger?
Guest:I have both.
Guest:I'm a middle child, of course.
Marc:And what's the older one do?
Guest:My older sister's name is Abby.
Guest:She's a nurse practitioner.
Guest:She has three kids.
Guest:And my younger sister's name is Stacy.
Guest:And she worked for Alice Waters and the Edible Schoolyard Foundation.
Guest:And now she's going back to school to become a mental health counselor.
Marc:Oh, God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's so good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're good women.
Marc:Decent people.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So what are you doing now?
Guest:um well i'm doing a bunch of stuff i just finished kroll show season three and i'm i'm on a show on hb um showtime called house of lies i'm gonna go back to that and then like i'm in this i have some movies i'm gonna do but i don't know which will come first or what will happen and i started um doing a new voiceover movie but i don't know if i'm allowed to say what it is
Marc:Are you doing any stuff of your own?
Guest:My husband and I have a new Marcel the Shell book and short and we want to make a feature of it.
Guest:And I want to write a movie for myself.
Guest:Like a good sort of throwback, Lily Tomlin style movie, studio film.
Guest:That's what I want.
Marc:Great.
Guest:Yeah, one with heart.
Marc:Oh, and as promised, when did you go back to the fortune teller?
Guest:I started to go back.
Guest:Well, this is the weirdest thing.
Guest:So she was like, in August, you'll be given the big stage.
Guest:I got hired.
Guest:She's like, in September, you're going to call me.
Guest:I called her on the Sunday after I had said fuck on SNL.
Guest:And she was like, Jenny, I told her you would call me.
Guest:And I was like, oh, my God.
Guest:And I had just remembered that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I called her then.
Guest:And she was basically like,
Guest:it's going to be a tough one for you, girl.
Guest:It's going to be a tough one, but you can make it through, but you don't.
Guest:She was like, I, I can't, I can't help you.
Guest:And I was like, what?
Guest:And she was just like, we're just going to have to go week by week on this one.
Guest:And I was just like, that sucks.
Guest:That sucks.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we did.
Guest:I did.
Marc:You kept in touch with her?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I went to her.
Marc:To the psychic?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For like, I went to her week after week for like a month, two months.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then I was like, what am I doing?
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Well, that's good that finally happened.
Guest:Yeah, totally.
Guest:All right.
Marc:Well, thanks for talking.
Guest:Thanks for having me.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:See that?
Marc:How can you not love her?
Marc:All right, go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Mark is clapping.
Marc:What else?
Marc:Yeah, there's merch there.
Marc:You can get some Christmas presents.
Marc:We stocked up the T-shirts and things and mugs.
Marc:You can get the app and upgrade to get all of them, all the stuff.
Marc:Oh, my Largo show is sold out, by the way.
Marc:I'll do another one another time.
Marc:What else?
Marc:Are we playing guitar?
Marc:Are we?
Marc:All right?
Marc:If you want to stay, stay.
Marc:Now I'm going to have to start writing stuff for this part.
Marc:Yeah, so...
Guest:Okay?
Guest:Boomer lives!