Episode 52 - James Wolcott / Sam Lipsyte / Oscars
Guest 6:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also... Eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Guest 2:What the fuck?
Guest 2:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers, what the fuckineers, what the fuck buddies, whatever you want to call yourselves?
Marc:I'm glad you're here.
Marc:Let me get this out of the way at the beginning.
Marc:pow i shit my pants just coffee.coop or you can go to wtfpod.com and get everything you want there send us some money grab a t-shirt get some coffee get an audible download whatever you need you know this show is going to be a little different folks i am taping this from new york and a lot of you have heard me go on about my frustration my overwhelming sense of dread and panic i
Marc:about just the state of culture, the idea that we're being entertained into submission, into ignorance, into some sort of cultural retardation.
Marc:We're all being infantilized to have the emotions of 10-year-olds that think they can have whatever they want whenever they want it without anybody telling us differently, and they're feeding us just that.
Marc:And I'm disillusioned and a little aggravated.
Marc:So today, what I decided to do is bring in
Marc:Let's raise the bar a little bit on a thematic level.
Marc:I think that all of my interviews and everyone I talk to are all very intelligent.
Marc:We have wonderful conversations.
Marc:But I wanted to address this stuff specifically.
Marc:So you guys may know Jim Walcott, James Walcott, from his column in Vanity Fair, or maybe you visit his blog at Vanity Fair.
Marc:He's a guy that puts culture into context, and I respect his intellect.
Marc:And then I'm very excited about this.
Marc:My dear friend, Sam Lipsight, whose book The Ask is in stores probably about now, is going to come in and talk a little bit about that, about books he likes.
Marc:I tell you, honestly, I haven't had time to see him since I've been here.
Marc:So this is going to be the first time we get to hang out and talk.
Marc:And I always look forward to that.
Marc:And then we're going to go ahead and at the end of the show, dip back into mainstream culture.
Marc:And myself and Brendan McDonald will do an Oscar crunch for you.
Marc:I think he's going to make me watch part of a movie that I resisted just because I don't like cartoons.
Guest 2:I want to get a headset with a microphone.
Guest 2:Then I look, you know, we'll look authoritative because you see these people running around the theater like audience members.
Guest 2:No, they're members of the theater.
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:You know, and they all look so you don't know.
Guest 2:They're talking to somebody up in a control booth.
Guest 2:Sure.
Guest 2:You know, like, OK, there's two seats are empty down here.
Guest 2:Right.
Yeah.
Guest 2:And I thought, I would just love to walk around like that, have people think like... Yeah, you can.
Guest 2:I mean, you could just get one.
Guest 2:It doesn't have to be connected to anything.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Like when they shoot a movie in New York, there are 40 people walking around the street with these little things.
Guest 2:You're thinking, how much needs to be done?
Guest 2:They're shooting like a 30-second scene in like a haircutting salon, you know, for...
Marc:But you could just, like, it'd be a great way to get out of conversation.
Marc:Just like, no, no, no, hold on.
Guest 2:Excuse me.
Marc:Yeah, hold on.
Marc:Excuse me.
Marc:No, you can't put that there.
Marc:You're going to have to bring it in somewhere else.
Guest 2:Okay, do I have to come down there?
Guest 2:That kind of thing.
Guest 2:I got to go.
Guest 2:I'm sorry.
Marc:That voice is James Wolcott, the columnist for Vanity Fair, also his own Vanity Fair blog, which you have said nice things about my show.
Marc:Well, I think the show is great.
Marc:Oh, that's... I appreciate that.
Guest 2:Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's... I love...
Guest 2:I love the combination of the personal stuff you get into with the shop talk.
Guest 2:Because, you know, like, writers are totally phony.
Guest 2:Writers never talk about real shop talk.
Guest 2:They pretend they do, but it's all about, well, you know, as Ralka once said, writing is about, you know.
Guest 2:But they never really talk the thing like...
Guest 2:This editor so screwed me over.
Guest 2:Right, right, right.
Guest 2:Whereas when comics get together, you talk about, remember that club that used to be in Cleveland?
Marc:That guy with one eye?
Marc:What do you think of the medium of podcasting in general?
Marc:I mean, do you think it's got a future?
Marc:Do you think it's important?
Guest 2:You know, I like it a lot.
Guest 2:I mean, I've never gotten into the whole thing of the video blogging, because for one thing, I don't want to really look at somebody on the screen, because with podcasting, I can be doing other things.
Guest 2:That's what I think, yeah.
Guest 2:Download a lot of podcasts from the BBC because they do a lot of really great interview shows and stuff there.
Guest 2:I almost never do NPR things.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Because you can get that anyways.
Guest 2:You can get it.
Guest 2:And it's all kind of in the same tone with NPR.
Guest 2:Even the comedy.
Guest 2:Very precious.
Guest 2:Today we're talking.
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:That Saturday Night Live routine really caught it.
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:Oh, good times.
Guest 2:You know, that's a kind of real, like a condescending sweetness.
Guest 2:Yeah, you kind of feel like yelling at it, just this, come on!
Guest 2:Yeah, you know, whereas the thing about your show is I can tell there become moments where the people sort of forget.
Guest 2:That's what I'm trying to do.
Guest 2:And they start saying things, and you're like, because one comedian said something, you said like, dude, do you really want to be saying, because the guy was saying basically, you know, about how he was not that committed to relationships and how he could like,
Guest 2:kill a woman.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Guest 2:Snap her neck and bury her in the desert.
Guest 2:Steve Renazizi.
Marc:Walk away.
Guest 2:And you're like, uh, do you really want to meet her?
Guest 2:And he stayed defending it.
Guest 2:He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:But I love it.
Guest 2:Not that I'd really do it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:Oh, well, that's good to know.
Marc:Well, I think that sort of to me is what's interesting about doing it is that I will, you know, I have freedom.
Marc:I'm not on live.
Marc:You know, I can have I know these guys well enough, at least that we're comedians.
Marc:We're in the same community.
Marc:And many of them I've known by passing them in the hallway for 20 years that the best thing that can happen is that I don't make a plan about the interview.
Marc:I just want it to become genuine.
Marc:And I think that somehow or another, even if we're not talking about comedy, no matter who you're talking to, if you're listening to it and it's genuine, it's compelling.
Guest 2:Oh, yeah.
Guest 2:Oh, yeah.
Guest 2:No, it's and because also the people who are on your show, they're not there to plug something.
Guest 2:They may have something like they may have something coming up, but that's not the purpose.
Guest 2:And it's a whole different tone if somebody is there because like on NPR, any of these shows, if somebody has a new book out and the purpose is to talk about the book or the movie.
Guest 2:The challenge is pretending like you're not talking about that.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Oh, by the way.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Everyone, you know, everyone is talking about you.
Guest 2:You know, it's like now we're getting, I did a little thing before I left about, it's like I said, I hope to God Jeff Bridges gets the Academy Award because I'm so sick of reading pieces about, you know, he really is our greatest actor and it's such a shame he's never gotten, because I've been reading this for 20 years now.
Guest 2:You know, it's like he's only- Since Fat City.
Guest 2:Yeah, and I hear him on the radio, and I hear people talking, well, I really think it's going to be Jeff Bridges' year.
Guest 2:I'm like, I hope so.
Guest 2:Just to put an end to this.
Guest 2:To hear this next year, it's a different movie.
Guest 2:Did you see that movie?
Guest 2:No.
Guest 2:Not yet?
Guest 2:No.
Guest 2:The subject doesn't interest me, because I feel like I've seen it before.
Marc:You kind of have.
Marc:It's Tender Mercies, only with a little ... Well, that had a happy ending, too.
Marc:It is Tender Mercies, for the most part.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Except a little bigger in its scope.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I liked it.
Marc:But you said you went to the theater this weekend.
Guest 2:Yeah, I did go to the theater.
Marc:Now, I went to the theater the other night, and you're a person that puts things into context.
Marc:And I've been having a problem lately, just in general, where I've actually had moments where I'm at a movie or I'm at a comedy show, and it's a deep moment where I'm like, haven't we been entertained enough?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, when does this shit stop?
Marc:I mean, I can't like I don't know.
Marc:Sometimes like I read your piece this week in this issue on Alec Baldwin.
Marc:It's a very thoughtful piece.
Marc:It resonated with me that the idea that this guy has evolved into something great, though he may not accept that.
Marc:And the primary thing that's stuck in his craw maybe is that he hasn't had a defining movie moment.
Marc:That would make him memorable in that way forever.
Marc:That's why he may retire, may not retire.
Marc:So you have an ability to put things into a cultural context.
Marc:And and I went to a play the other night and I had this moment where I'm like, this is why theater is important, because those are human beings.
Marc:We're connecting.
Marc:We're community.
Marc:Emotions are being directed and dictated.
Marc:And it's an organic experience.
Marc:And that doesn't happen anymore.
Marc:And we need more of it.
Marc:Do you ever have that?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:No, I have it with the theater.
Guest 2:Also, when you go to the theater, you realize how hard actors really work.
Guest 2:Oh, yeah.
Guest 2:And like what you can actually see them building something through the course of the evening.
Guest 2:Whereas it's not because, oh, at that moment, the director decided to move the camera up and actually give all the emotion comes from the camera movement.
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:The actor.
Guest 2:So, I mean, there are a lot of things I see that I on stage that it's really one of the few places where you also you see people you never see anywhere else.
Guest 2:I mean, you find yourself going, God, these people are really good.
Guest 2:Like the play I saw the other night, there were like two male British actors in it.
Guest 2:One of them was Hugh Dancy.
Guest 2:The other one I always mispronounce.
Guest 2:It was something like Ben Wishlaw.
Guest 2:He was in the remake of Brideshead Revisited.
Guest 2:They were both terrific.
Guest 2:But there was an actress in it who was sensational.
Guest 2:And I thought, I've never heard of her before.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:And the problem with the theater, I don't know if you find it, what I find is just the logistics of the theater sometimes are like...
Guest 2:Oh, after we leave, it's a crappy neighborhood.
Guest 2:You're like, I hate going to Times Square.
Marc:I'm in the theater now that they've changed.
Marc:It's because it's just a never-ending mass of tourists and dirt.
Guest 2:Yeah, and everyone's crashing into you.
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:And by the time you get there, you're already grumpy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think also that theater gets sometimes a bad reputation because you can only see so many bad plays before you're like, I cannot be put through that again.
Marc:You know, a bad movie, for some reason, you have a certain amount of distance from it, even if it's bad.
Marc:You can walk out or you can just tolerate it.
Marc:But a bad play, you're like, why are they doing this to us?
Guest 2:Well, you know, the thing about a bad, what I find I do now is I, one of the things that drives me crazy is so many plays now don't have intermissions.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Which is fine if it's 90 minutes.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:But sometimes it'll be like, it's two hours and 10 minutes without intermission.
Guest 2:And I think I'm going to die in there.
Guest 2:You know, it's like few things are that riveting and that you can't, and you feel like you can't leave.
Marc:You just want to leave your body squirming.
Guest 2:And it's like, what's wrong with it?
Guest 2:Intermission.
Guest 2:I love intermission.
Guest 2:I like to hear the bell or see the lights going off.
Guest 2:I like to hear the bell.
Guest 2:I like the sense of relaxation.
Guest 2:I like that people can go out and stand on a sidewalk with the cool air.
Guest 2:But instead, I'll look at certain things and I'll say, oh, that sounds good.
Guest 2:And then I look and it goes, an hour and eight, 40 minutes without intermission.
Guest 2:I'm like, I don't think I can.
Marc:No way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think that the broader thing that I'm having a problem with, and I don't know that it's because of my age or because I'm getting older or that I neglected to get informed by this type of stuff.
Marc:But what we what we grew to know when I was younger and I was even too young for it then as the arts, you know, ballet, things, you know, painting, sculpture.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:symphony music i just don't have any connection to and and now with the cultural climate that we're in now i don't know that most of the stuff that we're presented as art really is and i think a lot of it is just we're just never there's just a never-ending wave of garbage being plowed over our heads do you ever find that
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Oh, yeah.
Guest 2:No, but I find that more with movies.
Guest 2:Sure.
Guest 2:Because it's like, what I find offensive is, okay, you're doing this, and you want to make a lot of money, and you're doing a lot of hype.
Guest 2:Okay, fine.
Guest 2:But then we're also supposed to really critically respect it.
Guest 2:You know, I mean, I have seen some really rotten Martin Scorsese films, you know, recent years.
Guest 2:Yeah, me too.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:I mean, I saw The Departed after everybody else, you know, after it got erased.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:This is just junk.
Guest 2:He slept through it.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:I agree.
Guest 2:And so much of the stuff he does is it's the hyped up camera movements to disguise the fact that it's really primitive material.
Guest 2:It's not that interesting.
Guest 2:I've seen much more interesting things about that kind of corruption.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:Absolutely.
Guest 2:Sidney Lumet did movies like that.
Guest 2:Sure.
Guest 2:And yet every time we're all supposed to like bow down to Martin Scorsese.
Marc:I don't know why that movie did why he got it.
Marc:It's almost embarrassing that he got the acclaim he got for that.
Marc:Did you see Shutter Island?
Marc:I haven't seen it yet.
Marc:I think you should go.
Marc:You'll be pleasantly surprised.
Marc:Oh, is it better?
Marc:Yeah, it's it's he definitely didn't sleep through it.
Marc:It's very well constructed and it's you know, it's got this saturated color and almost a Hitchcockian
Marc:feel every frame is loaded up but it's not tricky editing it definitely has uh i don't know if i would even know how to use the word allegory but there's a lot of hallucination slash dream sequences which can become tedious if they're not handled properly but i found it to be very compelling and i felt like that you get that feeling where you can sit back and go i'm in the hands of a professional doing his job no he's a total pro right you know but it's sort of like what i what i sometimes feel like
Guest 2:When is it enough for all these performance?
Guest 2:I mean, they make all this money anyway.
Guest 2:They get all these awards.
Guest 2:But it's still like we're all supposed to, like, treat them like they're like cardinals and bishops or something.
Guest 2:You know, it's like – That's true.
Guest 2:You know, it's like we're all supposed to –
Guest 2:You know, it's like, you know, they're getting it all as it is, you know, whereas, you know, people who work in other arts get nothing.
Guest 2:I mean, they get like no coverage, no attention.
Marc:And it's arguably more important.
Marc:But I think just by demographics, the fact that we can't make this any bigger than it is because it is it is a live event or it's a small event or it's a small community that it's not worth it to us to elevate it.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And also, it can't be hyped on talk shows.
Guest 2:You can't get everybody on.
Marc:Used to be able to.
Marc:Dick Cavett used to have people like that.
Marc:I know.
Guest 2:Well, it's a whole other world.
Guest 2:Because you look back at who Cavett used to have on, who other shows used to have, even who Johnny Carson used to have on.
Marc:Sure.
Guest 2:Like Norman Mailer was a regular guest on those shows.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Carson was friends with Gore Vidal.
Guest 2:He would have Vidal on a lot.
Guest 2:He would have Buckley on.
Guest 2:He would have Carl Sagan on.
Guest 2:Nobody would have Carl Sagan on.
Guest 2:If Carl Sagan were on Letterman, Letterman would say, hey, what's the deal with all these galaxies?
Guest 2:How many of them are there?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Why can't we have a reasonable, informed, intelligent discourse that doesn't have to be kind of bookended by jokes?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Well, now it's all, you know, now it's all, it's not just jokes.
Guest 2:It's like all these like little pre-shot things they do now that they stick in.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:You know, that's like, it's like that takes up more and more clutter.
Guest 2:I mean, when Leno was doing his, his primetime thing, I'd like be watching.
Guest 2:It's like, is this going to ever end?
Marc:It's like, I didn't know what it was.
Marc:I couldn't even, I couldn't watch it.
Marc:I didn't, it all seemed so disjointed and uncomfortable and haphazard.
Guest 2:Yeah, even people I like when they were on it.
Guest 2:There was a couple segments with Pee Wee Herman.
Guest 2:I couldn't believe how bad they were.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And then other segments, it's kind of like what it proved is the stuff The Daily Show does is so much harder than it looks.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Sending people out to do those remotes.
Marc:Taking the time, how much editing requires.
Marc:Well, I think that my – I guess like in general, what I've been feeling lately is that –
Marc:Especially with Avatar, which I had a problem with just because of the advertising campaign.
Marc:I just had a problem with the idea that we should go see this because we spent a half a billion dollars on it.
Marc:It seemed insulting almost.
Marc:If that really makes people go, I'm going to go see how they wasted that money.
Marc:That it annoyed me.
Marc:And I've had arguments with people over it.
Marc:And and I saw the movie because I had to because people were like, you can't complain about something you haven't seen yet.
Marc:And I saw it and I was not that impressed.
Marc:But what I distinctly felt when I saw that movie is that we are really being the way that that culture is operated is to make us all emotionally about 10.
Marc:And then make everybody sort of like, almost like a kid.
Marc:Like, I want it.
Marc:I'm supposed to have it.
Marc:I get it.
Marc:I deserve it.
Marc:And there's that engagement with cultural product that I find it's dangerous and it's weird.
Marc:Or else just completely stupid.
Marc:I don't know how you feel about, like, there are some comedies that come on now.
Marc:Like, I just watched...
Marc:And I know that because of my audience that I'm going to get some flack for this.
Marc:I've been told the rest of development was great over and over again.
Marc:And then I've been I was someone gave me the box set and I'm watching it and I it's fine.
Marc:But I can't I can't lock in because I think that for some reason there's this idea that that comedy is supposed to be disjointed, that you have these characters that are ridiculous and angry and shallow to some degree.
Marc:And I can't get attached to it.
Marc:And am I asking too much?
No.
Guest 2:Well, I think that certain shows like that, it's a matter of like the rhythm.
Guest 2:You know, for example, the show that I can't get into, even though everyone raves about it to me, is 30 Rock.
Guest 2:Because I just, after a certain point, I find the inside showbiz stuff terrifying.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:You know, it's all like we're at NBC and NBC is going down the tube.
Guest 2:So each week we're going to be doing all these inside NBC jokes about how bad things are.
Guest 2:And and also it's like the rhythm is so quick, so snappy, like nothing ever really builds.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:It's like a 1930s movie.
Guest 2:Yeah, so that's one that I can't get.
Marc:But you were able to appreciate the fact in your most recent column that the one thing that stands out on that show is the craft of comedic acting.
Marc:Because I was a guy, when I first met Tracy Morgan, when I'd see him on Saturday Night Live, and I knew him kind of, I was like, is he having trouble reading?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then like with 30 Rock, you really realize that these are stylistic decisions he makes.
Marc:And that's his point of view.
Marc:And that's the way he delivers his jokes.
Marc:And it's hilarious.
Marc:But I didn't know that initially.
Marc:So I think that people are really operating on all pistons in terms of comedic acting.
Marc:And Alec Baldwin's amazing.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:When these guys know that they've got something good, you know, of course, then you find out years later that the people you thought were all really meshing well together.
Guest 2:They're like, you know, like, oh, yeah, no, he didn't come out of his trailer one day because, you know, like because somebody told me, you know, Dick Wolf.
Guest 2:Ever sits down and writes a memoir about all the stuff that went on with the law and order franchise.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Oh, my God.
Guest 2:Why he fired certain actors, why certain actors walked, why he brought certain ones back.
Guest 2:I mean, apparently it's just, you know, do you know something?
Guest 2:I don't know.
Guest 2:Have you heard some things?
Guest 2:Well, the thing I heard was that he really took vengeance on the actor who left after the first season.
Guest 2:Oh, really?
Guest 2:George Sunda.
Guest 2:Tried to ruin his career?
Guest 2:No.
Guest 2:What he did was he killed off the character in the first episode of the new season, didn't use the actor.
Guest 2:He used like a stand-in and had the character like executed.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And it was like, that was his way of making sure that actor is never coming back to this show.
Guest 2:Yeah, because Sutton decided, oh, I want to go out and do something else.
Marc:That wouldn't stop the soap opera from reusing an actor.
Marc:He's a ghost.
Guest 2:No, they would bring him back.
Guest 2:Can I tell you a funny story that Elvis Mitchell told me?
Guest 2:It goes back to Avatar.
Guest 2:Yeah, I haven't talked to Elvis in a while.
Guest 2:He's out there.
Guest 2:He was doing some big thing.
Guest 2:And he said that James Cameron was taking questions for the audience.
Guest 2:The first question, or one of the first questions was some woman who said, Mr. Cameron, I wanted to ask about why did you feel the need to have Sigourney Weaver ask for a cigarette?
Guest 2:You know, it's one of the, I guess, the first scenes.
Guest 2:And he said, I'm so sick of answering that question.
Guest 2:Why does that come?
Guest 2:And he apparently just like blew.
Guest 2:That was it?
Guest 2:That was it.
Guest 2:And I thought, I sort of sympathize with Cameron in a way because sort of like...
Guest 2:Of all the things you do, all the things you put together in this movie, you've worked on it for years.
Guest 2:And then this one thing about the cigarette.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:What people hang.
Marc:What was the issue with the cigarette?
Marc:I don't even remember that.
Guest 2:Well, I think it said, you know, Sigourney Weaver comes out and says, like, I really need a cigarette or something like that.
Guest 2:But everyone's gotten so puritanical now about cigarettes.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:They've gotten puritanical about more than I am willing to admit.
Marc:I did a show like I've been having this issue with with what progressive audiences or the alternative crowd.
Marc:But they seem a lot pruder than than than they should be as young people.
Marc:And I don't know if it's a mental if it's institutionalized or it's just political correctness.
Marc:But it seems to me that a lot of people second guess their own instincts to react to.
Guest 2:I've heard that from teachers that like a lot of students like the current generation, it's like there's a certain blankness, like a lack of affect, like they don't want to react to certain things.
Guest 2:It's not even that they disapprove.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:They don't want to like let it out.
Marc:Right.
Marc:They don't want to take the risk of having a reaction to it because it might be just as simple as like, I don't want to be uncool.
Marc:I don't I don't take the risk of being misunderstood.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Kids coming up with that is going to really affect their brains.
Guest 2:I just don't I don't know cognitive.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And the access of depth of feeling of things that are I don't I don't know.
Marc:You know, I and I'm trying not to be because there's part of me that thinks like I'm an old guy.
Marc:But there's another part of me.
Marc:It's like these people are living in this weird eternal now of techno bliss without any capability for reflection, self-assessment.
Marc:And I'm getting a lot of emails now, thank God, from people who listen to the show that are kids, that are like 14 to 20, like kids in high school are like, I'm so glad to hear a grown-up talk like you because I thought I was the only one having these feelings.
Marc:And I'm like, great, great, Holden Caulfield lives.
Marc:And I'm happy to hear that that's percolating.
Guest 2:It's almost impossible to think about the future now because everything is so jammed up.
Guest 2:It's like nobody – there's no planning for the future because everybody is so jammed up in the present with all these ridiculous – I mean, you don't want to be – I mean, at first I thought I was just being a snob.
Guest 2:But the fact is something like the Tea Party movement, they are genuinely dumb.
Guest 2:I mean, you see it in their signs and the things they say that are like half cocked that are like, you know, that have no sense of history or history as they got from Glenn Beck that morning.
Guest 2:Well, you know what?
Marc:There is nothing anchoring the truth that, you know, you can tell them the truth historically and they can just go, oh, yeah, that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Like you don't know what really happened.
Marc:You don't know.
Marc:But I have the history.
Marc:This is what happened.
Marc:No, that's just the spin.
Marc:So the truth no longer has any bearing in the culture we live on.
Marc:So people just construct these temporary belief systems and they will deflect the truth.
Marc:It's the same as religion.
Marc:Paranoia has the same commitment element as a religious dogma.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And what the hell do you do with that?
Guest 2:Because if you try to come back and say, well, but no, during the new deal, oh, no, the new deal failed, too.
Guest 2:They don't tell you that.
Marc:The counter history is essentially they've gotten somehow or another the moneyed interests that own the government have gotten fairly ignorant and dumb people who are very angry to defend corporate interests by using a different language.
Marc:And it's baffling to me that what they're really fighting for is this corporate order that they've gotten somehow into their head that that somehow is populism.
Marc:They don't they don't seem to realize the disconnect between who who is their puppet master and what is really happening.
Marc:That's the most frustrating thing about it is that to me, the only the only real question when it comes to politics is in where you stand is like, do you really do you care about poor people at all?
Marc:And if you can shamelessly say no, if they can't afford to play along, they deserve to die.
Marc:Then then you're on that side.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It should just be kill the poor.
Marc:But what I don't understand is how people who are economically compromised and still have those values, you know, can accommodate that in their own mind, knowing that they're just, you know, a paycheck away from being exactly what they're mocking.
Marc:A lot of them are in the same, you know.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you know what I think it is?
Marc:Honestly, it's pride.
Marc:Is that, you know, that there are people that for their entire life have rejected the idea or what they consider the welfare state.
Marc:And their pride says, like, I'm an American.
Marc:I'm not going to take a hand out.
Marc:So I'd rather not be able to afford my medicine and die fighting than take a handout.
Guest 2:But the other thing is, and this is where the conservative establishment was shrewd, by going after ACORN, going after other things, they turned it into, it's black people, it's minorities who are taking all this welfare, all these things, and they're taking it out of your pocket and out of your mouth.
Marc:And they're communists.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And they're communists.
Guest 2:They're socialists.
Guest 2:As somebody said, who could be more moderate than Obama the way he's done it?
Guest 2:I mean, Obama backed away from the public option almost immediately.
Guest 2:Disappointing.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And the thing is, if Obama were like Stalin and Hitler rolled into one the way they portray him, he wouldn't be bothering with like, let's get everybody together in a room and talk and
Marc:Well, I think that what that faction of the right is creating this this kind of like interior national cold war that doesn't exist.
Marc:And it's in the states that are still dominated by Republican legislators are creating laws that are enabling some sort of extreme.
Marc:Like there are laws now in some states where people can literally carry guns around in public.
Marc:And Obama didn't really curtail any sort of gun law.
Guest 2:And, you know, what's weird is that that then clashes with like they all pretend like they're for the business, small businessmen.
Guest 2:Businessmen do not want people walking in with guns.
Guest 2:You know, they really don't.
Guest 2:It's been a real problem because like because they're not they're not just walking in individually.
Guest 2:Some of these like tea party type groups.
Guest 2:They'll, like, get people, 10 people together.
Guest 2:They want to make a show of it.
Guest 2:Yeah, because they practically want the police to do something so that they can have a showdown.
Guest 2:Well, these store owners, like some guy, you know, the people running a Walmart chain or whatever, they don't want 10 people walking in with weapons all at one time.
Guest 2:I mean, it's like, you know, or walking into Apple, you know, Applebee's or Denny's.
Marc:Yeah, it's I've sort of detached from it because I no longer have enough faith in a political solution that it seems to me that we're on this weird course where something bad is going to happen right here.
Marc:And it's going to be American made.
Marc:And it's going to really make people go, holy shit, we better rethink this thing.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:No, if the Republicans make great gains in the midterms, I think what you're going to see is just going to be so chaotic.
Guest 2:Exactly.
Guest 2:Like nothing's going to get done because the people who would get elected are not going to be people who are going to want to work with anybody because they're going to be like the Gingrich people who came in that first time and, well, we're going to tell everybody what to do.
Guest 2:Meanwhile, they then get on the take.
Guest 2:What they're going to be doing is they're going to be trying to do a lot of repeal of anything involving gun laws.
Guest 2:They're going to be pushing abortion bills like we're not going to believe.
Marc:It's going to be the Wild West, just people with guns and unwanted kids everywhere.
Guest 2:But as long as the movies are really compelling and in 3D, hopefully we can play Keep Paper.
Guest 2:The iPad's coming out.
Guest 2:The country may go down the tubes.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:But in another month or two, we're all going to have little iPads and we'll all be like Star Trek characters.
Marc:Yeah, there you go.
Marc:So there is hope.
Marc:There is hope that we'll at least be able to lose ourselves in our devices that we can hold in our hands.
Marc:Thanks, Jim.
Guest 2:Thank you.
Marc:Good seeing you.
Marc:my guest in uh in uh studio yeah because we're not at the cat ranch sam lipsite my friend and genius writer can i say that still can i can you say genius writer yeah uh yeah absolutely uh i'm very excited because his book actually genius is it's a tough word though because you know i can't say yes no i'm not a genius and i can't say yes yeah i when people call me a genius i i usually say like oh okay let's not go crazy
Guest 5:There are about three geniuses in the world and they work in physics probably.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's that word is bandied about.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it doesn't.
Marc:It's easy.
Marc:It's easy.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:Fuck.
Marc:Fuck that word.
Guest 5:It's like if somebody makes a good pancake and you say genius.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a genius pancake.
Marc:But I think that's all right.
Marc:Can't there be geniuses of pancakes?
Guest 5:I guess so.
Marc:All right.
Marc:But this is definitely a genius book.
Marc:The Ask by Sam Lipsight comes out next week in hardback, and it's spectacular.
Marc:I read the whole book.
Guest 5:The whole thing.
Marc:Yeah, I read it from cover to cover.
Marc:I was excited about it.
Marc:I tell people about it.
Marc:People ask me, what should I be reading?
Marc:I say, you got to read the new Sam Lipsight book.
Marc:It's so fucking hilarious.
Guest 5:Well, thank you, man.
Marc:How are we going to make it?
Marc:I think that everybody has to read it.
Marc:It should be required.
Marc:It should be in drawers in hotel rooms.
Guest 5:Oh, really?
Guest 5:Yeah, right next to Gideon's.
Guest 5:Replacing or next to it?
Marc:No, replacing.
Guest 5:I think replacing.
Guest 5:Real replacing?
Guest 5:Okay.
Marc:Because I think what you do, quite honestly, if I could be honest, which I am usually, is that not only do you have a very specific and well-honed voice, not only are you a great creator of sentences, but there's a lot of heart in there, Sam.
Yeah.
Guest 5:Well, I try for heart.
Guest 5:Yeah, I like heart.
Marc:Because I've read some books lately, not so much heart.
Marc:Really?
Marc:I'm reading Don DeLillo's newest novel.
Marc:Has he run out?
Marc:Has he run out of heart?
Marc:Of something?
Marc:I don't know how much heart he had to begin with in terms of his style, and I'm a big fan of his.
Guest 5:I love Don DeLillo.
Guest 5:I know you do.
Guest 5:I will always read his sentences.
Marc:Did you enjoy his new book?
Marc:Yeah, I did.
Marc:Can he explain to me a little bit about it?
Guest 5:No, I didn't really understand it, but I really enjoyed it.
Marc:All right, so it's not just me, but you're willing to blame yourself.
Guest 5:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest 5:It's my failing.
Marc:Okay, and then I'm going to take that approach.
Marc:Now, you studied with the same guy he studied with.
Marc:Is that true?
Guest 5:No, he didn't.
Guest 5:Gordon Lish is who you're talking about.
Marc:A lot of people don't know that Gordon Lish is sort of like an important guru-ish character in the New York literary world, is he not?
Guest 4:Yes, well, he was... You say, Oklahoma City, take him there.
Guest 4:It's an awful piece of shit.
Guest 4:And those people are probably from Oklahoma City, if you're clapping.
Guest 4:Probably like, I know, it's terrible.
Guest 4:But I sat there and watched the destruction of the place that I love in the worst, shittiest place that only has barbecue in the world, Oklahoma City.
Guest 4:And when you went back, what was the situation?
Guest 4:It was pretty fucked, but I swear to you, comedy was still happening.
Guest 4:There were two comedy shows in New Orleans before the flood, and then there were three afterwards.
Marc:Where was this class?
Marc:It was a seminar type of thing?
Guest 5:Yeah, it was in somebody's apartment.
Guest 5:It was a private class.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And he'd only offer them to specific people?
Marc:Did you have to submit something in order to get into the class?
Marc:He edited a magazine.
Guest 1:There were individuals that were humiliated so badly in terms of their inability to really be.
Guest 5:Kept sending and eventually he took a couple of pieces.
Guest 1:You good now?
Guest 1:I'm good.
Guest 1:Thank you for that.
Guest 1:Don't get too cocky.
Guest 5:That was probably it.
Marc:And from what I've talked to you about it, or from what I understand about it, this was not an easy man.
Marc:And that the way that he taught people to write is fairly specific, is it not?
Marc:I mean, you were already, you know, well-educated, you know, on your way to becoming a fiction writer.
Marc:So why would you seek out this guy?
Marc:What is it that he did?
Marc:Well, I wasn't, no, I was not established as anything.
Guest 5:I was pretty broken, actually, at the time.
Guest 5:I was...
Marc:But you were a graduate of college.
Marc:Sure.
Guest 5:Like I said, I was broken at the time.
Guest 5:So you really had to go into that without an ego.
Guest 5:And I think the people that already had a sort of writer's identity all sewn up for themselves had a harder time.
Guest 5:But I was really open to anything.
Guest 5:And it was rigorous and he was tough and demanding of you.
Guest 5:But the thing is, the sort of final lesson was now you have to go on and teach yourself.
Guest 5:If you just kind of get caught up in certain rules, you're going to fail.
Guest 5:If you take what you need from a teacher's teaching and then transform it somehow for yourself, then you'll get on a fruitful road.
Guest 5:Right.
Marc:And that road is something that's the the diligence on your part is committing to that and making that sacrifice.
Marc:Like, I'm going to do this.
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:Or just I don't know what else to do.
Marc:Well, I definitely understand that.
Marc:That happens to me frequently every morning.
Marc:Right.
Marc:This doesn't work out.
Marc:I can't even teach like Sam.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But I guess what I'm looking for here is what did you get from him?
Marc:Did he make you cry?
Guest 5:Not in the class.
Guest 5:I would wait until I got out of the class to cry.
Guest 5:Some people cried in the class.
Marc:It's important to do that in acting classes and writing classes.
Guest 5:It depends.
Guest 5:But he taught you to listen to yourself.
Guest 5:He taught you.
Guest 5:Ultimately, it was...
Guest 5:Just about hearing yourself and paying attention to your sentences and not just trying to leap ahead to some mythical good part of whatever you're working on, but to sort of believe that all of it has to be good and all of it has to be strong.
Marc:I think that's good life advice because I'm constantly leaping ahead to the mythical good part.
Marc:And as I get older, I think that's a dead myth.
Guest 5:I think all you have is now, man.
Marc:The mythical good part.
Marc:I think I'm going to call my next CD that.
Marc:Can I?
Marc:I'll credit you.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:The mythical good part.
Marc:Oh, God damn it.
Marc:Let's go back to this idea because I'm getting emails now, not as we speak, but in general about reading lists, about books that people are curious about what I read and about the books that have defined me.
Marc:Because I can remember certain books that I would read and I'd be like, holy fuck.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:It's all here.
Marc:This is all I need right now.
Guest 5:Yeah.
Marc:Which books are those for you?
Marc:A couple of them.
Guest 5:An early one was Sam the Minuteman, written for, I guess, sixth graders or something.
Guest 5:That did it?
Guest 5:That fired me up.
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:When you were in sixth grade?
Guest 5:It was by Nathaniel Benchley, whose father was Robert Benchley of the Algonquin crowd.
Guest 5:And his son was Peter Benchley, who wrote Jaws.
Guest 5:And so this was the middle Benchley.
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:Well, it was about a guy named Sam, and I identified with that.
Guest 5:And he was a minute man.
Guest 5:Fighting the redcoats.
Guest 5:So you saw yourself, Sam.
Guest 5:Sam.
Marc:The minute man.
Marc:The minute man.
Guest 5:I was later called that for other reasons.
Yeah.
Guest 5:I remember this kind of shocking book by, I think her name was Nancy Friday, and it was a big book at the time, and it was just women telling their sexual fantasies.
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:And I got to that book way too early.
Guest 5:Right.
Guest 5:And that kind of ruined me for a while.
Marc:It does, doesn't it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Where it's just like, how can anything be as important as figuring that out?
Marc:Right.
Marc:How does it go in there, and when does that happen?
Marc:And do they all have those?
Marc:And is that what they want?
Marc:And how do I do that?
Marc:Well, I hope you knew some of that before.
Marc:Well, I did.
Marc:I knew some of it, but it still seemed a big jump to actually getting it out of the pants and finessing all of that.
Guest 5:No, it's true.
Guest 5:And you got to work that stuff out.
Guest 5:My two-year-old daughter told me today that she has a penis.
LAUGHTER
Guest 5:What did you say?
Guest 5:I said, no, you don't.
Guest 5:We have to get certain things straight.
Marc:Do you get the boy out and say, this is a penis?
Guest 5:She's figured that out.
Marc:Okay.
Guest 5:I think she just wants to be like him.
Marc:When did she start talking?
Guest 5:Full on about three or four months ago.
Marc:Any genius things?
Marc:Every day.
Marc:Every day genius?
Marc:Every day genius.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were you sad when Salinger died?
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:Sad?
Marc:I mean, he was old.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It seemed like a writer thing to talk about.
Guest 5:Yes.
Guest 5:You know, it made me think about Salinger.
Guest 5:I think it made everyone think about Salinger.
Marc:Did you love Salinger?
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:I mean, Salinger is really so important to the American voice in writing, I think.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, people were trying to explain that.
Marc:And what did he do that was so spectacular that hadn't been done before?
Marc:I mean, I love him, but I mean, it was just a casualness of the dialogue.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest 5:I mean, you could say Mark Twain did that.
Guest 5:Did a similar thing.
Guest 5:Maybe these guys are all sort of markers along this road, but Salinger was the important one for this century in this country.
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:I mean, he spawned a million bad books, too.
Guest 5:Right.
Guest 5:But it was revolutionary.
Marc:Now, a lot of people don't know that your father is also a writer.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Robert Lipsight.
Guest 5:He actually once, as a young reporter, had to track down Salinger.
Guest 5:Did he find him?
Guest 5:He got to the house.
Guest 5:He just gave up?
Guest 5:He got to the door, I think.
Guest 5:I don't want to tell this wrong.
Guest 5:I need to remember.
Guest 5:But somebody not Salinger, maybe his wife, a woman answered.
Guest 5:And...
Guest 5:and said, you need to decide now what kind of person you're going to be.
Guest 5:Are you going to be the kind of parasitical, cheap, sleazy reporter who's going to stalk a man who craves silence and isolation, or are you going to drive back to New York and become the person you need to be?
LAUGHTER
Guest 5:And he got back in his car and drove home.
Guest 5:Did he write the piece?
Guest 5:I don't think so.
Guest 5:He didn't even do a Gonzo approach?
Guest 5:Maybe he did.
Guest 5:I don't remember.
Guest 5:You'll have to have him on sometime and he can tell you that story.
Marc:He would love to come on.
Marc:I'm sure we could call him now.
Marc:He'd be down here.
Marc:But he did write.
Guest 5:Your father was a sports writer, a columnist for the New York Times sports section for many years.
Guest 5:And he had two times, two sort of eras.
Guest 5:He was doing it in the late 60s and early 70s.
Guest 5:And then he quit and wrote books for a long time and then came back.
Guest 5:Keen books, right?
Guest 5:In the 90s.
Guest 5:YA novels, yes.
Marc:Young audiences?
Guest 5:Young adult.
Guest 5:Oh.
Guest 5:And they're popular?
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:Well, a couple he wrote are sort of cornerstones of the young adult canon.
Guest 5:A book called The Contender, which a lot of people I know had to read in high school or middle school.
Guest 5:I remember I, in a really kind of arrogant turn, decided I would write my book report.
Guest 5:On your father?
Guest 5:On my father's book.
Guest 5:And I got like a C minus or something.
Yeah.
Guest 5:The teacher saw right through me.
Guest 5:Did you take him to task?
Guest 5:No, I had the kid gloves on.
Marc:Are any of your books being taught?
Marc:I mean, a lot of people don't know that Sam has written a collection of short stories, Venus Drive, and two novels previous to this new one, The Ask, The Subject Steve and Homeland.
Marc:Are any of them being taught?
Marc:Yeah, I hear from people who are teaching them all the time.
Marc:That's great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you know what that means?
Marc:Money forever forever.
Guest 5:I haven't seen that forever money yet, but I do like the idea of people reading the book and talking about it.
Marc:Someone's still making money off of Bertolt Brecht.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:That's not me.
Marc:I know, but once you become part of the college.
Guest 5:Right, but I'm not saying I'm widely taught.
Guest 5:Right.
Guest 5:I'm just saying that I am taught.
Marc:Do you get fan mail?
Guest 5:Occasionally fan email.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you have a site where they can go to do that?
Guest 5:No, I've been really, really bad with putting together my technological profile.
Marc:Your social networking.
Marc:But isn't there a Facebook page for it?
Marc:There is for the book.
Marc:It's a fan page for the ask?
Marc:For the book, yeah.
Marc:Well, then are you going there to see what people are saying?
Guest 5:Yeah, I do.
Guest 5:But I have no way to get in there because I'm not on Facebook myself.
Yeah.
Marc:Okay, so I think, you know, I've had this conversation with other writer friends.
Marc:You do realize that your fans want to hear from you.
Guest 5:Yes, I'm just looking for the right forum.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Have you been auditioning forums?
Guest 5:Yeah, I am.
Guest 5:I'm taking a lot of meetings.
Guest 5:With forums?
Guest 5:With forum builders.
Yeah.
Marc:I hope you meet the right one.
Marc:I do too.
Marc:It's a big business now.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Forum building.
Marc:Forum building.
Marc:There are a few existing ones that proved to be fairly successful.
Marc:Like Facebook, for instance.
Marc:And Twitter.
Marc:Twitter.
Marc:You've got to open up.
Marc:Boundaries are a thing of the past.
Guest 5:I know.
Guest 5:Well, I was just reading that article about that writer, that woman in Germany, who published that novel that is filled with bits from other people's writing.
Guest 5:And they called her out for plagiarizing.
Guest 5:And she says, no, this isn't plagiarism.
Guest 5:This is...
Guest 5:That's my culture.
Guest 5:I'm part of the new youth, and we just take chunks from other people's books and blogs and throw them into ours.
Marc:Yeah, and you just call it your own.
Guest 5:Right.
Guest 5:Sure.
Guest 5:She said there's no such thing as being original, just authentic.
Marc:Oh, so free the thought, steal what you want, call it your own, and take the hit.
Guest 5:So that's, I just need to lighten up, I guess.
Marc:Well, it takes a lot of time.
Marc:And you're busy with writing, doing the big work and teaching young minds.
Marc:What's your feeling on the pulse of where the undergrad mind is at?
Marc:I mean, in general.
Guest 5:It's the same place it's ever been.
Marc:It is?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just sort of like, how do I get laid?
Marc:How do I look smart?
Marc:How do I look?
Marc:Yeah, how do I look, period.
Marc:That's the whole thing about that.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I could never be a teacher.
Guest 5:I really love engaging with their work and seeing what they have to say.
Guest 5:Sometimes it's funny.
Guest 5:You give them a Chekhov story and they just say, this is shit.
Guest 5:But you kind of pause and say, maybe it is.
Marc:Maybe everyone was wrong.
Marc:There's no reason why we can't rethink this.
Guest 5:This kid could be right.
Marc:So the ask, again, I read it and I'm going to reread it.
Marc:Had I not given my coffee away, thank you for the nice hardback one.
Marc:And I got to say, the jacket photo, great.
Marc:You look happy, you look smart, you look like you're wearing a jacket.
Marc:I'm in L.A.
Marc:And you're in Los Angeles, so that's the L.A.
Marc:Sam.
Guest 5:That's L.A.
Guest 5:Sam.
Marc:Yeah, hey, here I am.
Marc:It's better than the other one, which I think you look younger and more vital here.
Marc:The other one, I remember- Which one from- From the last book, yeah.
Marc:It was different, wasn't it?
Marc:It was just your head.
Guest 5:It was not even.
Marc:No, it's just my head.
Guest 5:It's my hand on my cheek.
Guest 5:It was winter, it was New York.
Guest 5:It was down by the docks.
Marc:Oh, that's right.
Marc:That's right.
Guest 5:I wasn't that happy at the moment.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, now you're a guy with kids and a new book out.
Marc:And you're in L.A.
Marc:doing the thing.
Marc:Right.
Guest 5:Well, not at this moment, but in the picture.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So let's read a section of it and enjoy.
Marc:And then we'll talk some more.
Marc:Do you have a section you like?
Guest 5:Yeah.
Guest 5:Well, I don't know if I like it, but I'll read it.
Guest 5:Okay.
Guest 5:No, I mean, it's hard to explain.
Guest 5:is it well once you've written it and it's out there then you kind of look at it and say but are you having that are you having well you have that no matter what it's always like you're like how why did i put this in no not any particular thing right how could why did i put this out here why did i let people see this right exactly um so on
Guest 5:On that note, this is just a very short section where the character Milo is musing on some of his past relationships and his marriage to his wife, whose name is Mora.
Guest 5:Everything went off, went bad, or so I told myself, though I knew my crucial role in the spoilage.
Guest 5:I had skipped my last meeting with Sayori Kuroki behind Scissor Kicks, the Plaza Hair Salon.
Guest 5:Even then I could feel myself doing the dumb thing, as though I wanted to guarantee I had memories to haunt me, feared I might lack a good reason to wince.
Guest 5:I should never have worried.
Guest 5:I could still picture Sayori standing there near the dumpster in her denim jacket, fiddling with the scrunchies on her wrist, maybe worried I'd been knocked off my BMX by a lumber truck, though maybe she never reached the rendezvous either.
Guest 5:Constance, I'd just turned abruptly away from her, seeing something better in whatever Lena's adulterous hunger could deliver.
Guest 5:I'd almost let Maura drift off a few times, too, before Bernie reversed the inertia.
Guest 5:"'We'd been together off and on for ten years, Maura and I, had tried very hard not to be the love of each other's life.
Guest 5:It was like the stupid movie, without the cute bits.
Guest 5:Not one of the cute bits, for instance, was the night we had a foursome with that lascivious couple whose green-point loft, perhaps because of the hillocks of cocaine on the coffee table, we found ourselves the last to leave.'
Guest 5:After some preliminary dialogue that wanted so much to parody the clunky verbal vamping of vintage porn, but had necessarily veered into grim, jaw-grinding consequentiality, Mora and the other woman had stripped and entangled themselves on the bed, all pinches and strokes and theatrical licks.
Guest 5:Even through the fog of powders and booze, the sight of them aroused me, and I turned to grin at the other guy.
Guest 5:he smiled back held up a palm for a louche almost wonderlandish high five i shoved my tongue in his mouth really i just meant to be friendly to compliment the writhings beneath us complete the servicing circuit but suddenly it seemed i'd broken the sacred swinger's code
Guest 5:What the fuck, the guy said.
Guest 5:He pulled away, wiped his lips.
Guest 5:Then he stuck himself in my wife, glared as he pumped.
Guest 5:I'm not into that, he said.
Guest 5:You had no right.
Guest 5:I crawled off to the coffee table, decided then and there I had no fondness for Greenpoint.
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:I'm sorry.
Marc:I just have to... I just picture you when I... Please don't.
Guest 5:I'm sorry.
Marc:That's the fun thing about reading people's work that you know.
Marc:It's like, this is Sam through the whole thing.
Marc:It's just... Yeah, no, it's fiction, man.
Marc:I know.
Marc:Don't get defensive.
Marc:I mean, you know, everybody... God damn it.
Marc:And the other scene where you're in the cage, that was good.
Marc:It's not me, man.
Guest 6:No, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
Marc:I know it isn't.
Marc:I know, I know, I know, I know.
Marc:Well, I just like, I really want this to get into the hands of the hungry minds.
Marc:Like, you know what, honestly, to my young people,
Marc:My young what the fuckers, my 14 to 20 year olds, those in high school.
Marc:If you want to blow your mind and have a good time and read some beautifully crafted fiction, laugh your ass off and just really go, oh, my God, there's a whole other world out there.
Marc:Any of Sam Lipsight's books are great, but this one's like, this is the second masterpiece.
Marc:Can I say that?
Marc:I love that.
Marc:And I think that you should get it.
Marc:It's The Ask by Sam Lipsight.
Marc:It will be in bookstores.
Marc:Well, is it out this week or the week after, Sam?
Guest 5:I think the publication date officially is March 9th, but it should be in stores before then.
Guest 5:It's already in some stores.
Guest 5:I'm glad you came on.
Marc:It's always good to see you.
Guest 5:Oh, it was a great pleasure.
Guest 5:Thanks, Mark.
Guest 5:Thanks, Sam.
Thank you.
Marc:All right, so I am here in a unnamed studio in New York City on the radio mic with Brendan McDonald, like the old days.
Guest 3:Yes, sir.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:Good.
Marc:So we're going to talk Oscars.
Guest 3:Yeah, this Sunday.
Marc:Is it this Sunday?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:I didn't even know.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know how I feel about the 10 best picture nominations.
Marc:Is that a business decision?
Marc:It must be.
Guest 3:I mean, it's ridiculous.
Guest 3:They were worried about the ratings of the broadcast from the last several years because it's down every year.
Guest 3:So this is thought to be a fix for that because more movies means more things people have seen.
Guest 3:More than that, it's a business decision from the fact that now you have 10 separate movies campaigning.
Guest 3:So those are ad buys, all those for your consideration ads and that.
Marc:Yeah, I hate to think, even though I know better.
Guest 3:Yeah, it breaks the illusion.
Marc:Yeah, and the illusion's been broken in a while.
Marc:I'm looking forward to Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin, I guess.
Marc:I guess I'll watch it, but we just printed out the nominees for everything in front of us.
Marc:I've seen a lot of these movies, actually.
Marc:I mean, let's start with Best Picture.
Marc:Why not?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you see all of them?
Guest 3:There's a couple that I didn't.
Guest 3:I didn't see An Education.
Guest 3:Did you see that?
Marc:I did see it.
Marc:I watched it on a screener and didn't love it.
Marc:I don't understand.
Marc:That's the one with- The old girl who falls for the older professor?
Marc:Right.
Marc:With Sarsgaard?
Marc:What's his name?
Guest 3:Peter Sarsgaard.
Marc:Peter Sarsgaard.
Marc:It's British.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know what the hell the big deal about that movie was.
Marc:I don't even understand it.
Marc:I don't even understand why it's on the list.
Marc:It was okay.
Marc:It was cute.
Marc:And maybe it was because I watched it at home and I could do other things like cook and eat and go to my computer.
Marc:But I didn't love it.
Guest 3:What about A Serious Man?
Guest 3:I didn't see that, did you?
Marc:A Serious Man I've watched like four or five times.
Guest 3:Really?
Guest 3:You like it that much?
Marc:I love it.
Guest 3:Oh, yeah.
Marc:I like the Coen Brothers.
Marc:I think when you watch a Coen Brothers movie, you're watching such a tightly crafted, meticulous piece of work by completely original directors and writers.
Marc:You're seeing a completely unique vision, a unique script.
Marc:I read the script to that.
Marc:I auditioned for the lead in that.
Marc:I don't know how I got the audition.
Marc:I actually had...
Marc:Decent representation for about 10 minutes.
Marc:And I worked really hard on the audition.
Marc:But when I read the script, I literally was like, how the fuck are they going to make this movie?
Marc:I couldn't picture it as a movie that anyone would see.
Marc:Or I really more so I couldn't really understand how it was a movie because I don't read scripts.
Marc:Well, it's hard for me to picture scripts.
Marc:And then when you see the movie, none of that stuff went away, but it was exactly the movie I'd read, but it was completely unique and it was completely compelling.
Marc:You didn't have to be Jewish to understand it.
Marc:I don't know if it deserves best picture.
Guest 3:Well, don't you think it's interesting that it's nominated for best screenplay and you actually read it before the filming process started?
Guest 3:That's kind of cool.
Guest 3:You had it in your hand.
Guest 3:Yeah, I still have it.
Guest 3:Yeah, and it's like now it's something that's regarded as a best of something.
Marc:Yeah, and I had it and it's highlighted where my audition is.
Marc:My failure is highlighted.
Marc:My inability to get that part is marked down.
Marc:Well, it is a truly original movie.
Guest 3:I've been excited to see it, and it just keeps passing me by, so now I definitely will check it out.
Marc:I'd be curious to see what you think of it.
Marc:Now, you saw The Hurt Locker.
Guest 3:Yeah, Hurt Locker and Inglourious Bastards, we've talked about on this show before.
Guest 3:Obviously, you've talked about Avatar.
Guest 3:We know where you stand on that.
Marc:Yeah, it's probably going to win, though, isn't it?
Guest 3:I don't know.
Guest 3:It looks like the Hurt Locker has a real strong push.
Guest 3:Seriously?
Guest 3:Oh, yeah.
Guest 3:It's winning all the awards.
Guest 3:Right.
Guest 3:The Producers Guild, the Directors Guild, it won the British, the BAFTAs, the British Awards.
Guest 3:So, I mean, those are all usually pretty big indicators.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Guest 3:yeah it's not hollywood though and hollywood might want to acknowledge that they just had had the biggest selling movie of all time in the world in the galaxy yeah yeah yeah here and on the planet where the blue people live but the hurt locker couldn't be more different as a from a production standpoint oh yeah or a quality of a movie oh yeah what the one avatar is yeah and i didn't i saw up in the air that i don't think that should get it i enjoyed the movie i did not see up you didn't see up but now you have a you have a resistance yes i have an aversion to cartoons
Guest 3:Have you heard anything about this movie?
Marc:Yes, I heard that I should see it, and it's great.
Guest 3:I actually have the first five minutes of it here.
Guest 3:I want you to watch it.
Guest 3:Because you're a guy who gets emotional over car commercials.
Marc:Yes.
Guest 3:And I think that, and it's long been a thing that you have a very big resistance to animation as a medium.
Marc:I'm already starting to cry.
Guest 3:All right, well, let's take a look at this thing, and then I'll just get right back on the mic and see what you think.
Marc:Okay, all right.
Ah!
.
.
Marc:Now can't we just watch the whole thing?
Marc:What happens now?
Guest 3:Well, now they have a whole movie.
Marc:That was a whole movie.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah, that was definitely moving.
Marc:I was definitely ready to go.
Marc:I was ready to watch.
Marc:I don't know if you've changed my mind about it, but I certainly find right now that my aversion to animation is stupid.
Guest 3:Well, I think that you have, like, I can sense where the aversion comes from, especially, like, just starting that DVD off and you see, like, all the Disney foo-foroo going on.
Guest 3:Right.
Guest 3:Like, it immediately doesn't connect with you.
Guest 3:You're like, this is kid stuff.
Guest 3:But that four-minute sequence is like a silent movie.
Guest 3:It's like they studied, like, Chaplin and Buster King.
Marc:Oh, no doubt.
Marc:No doubt.
Marc:And it was all very clever and very beautiful.
Marc:I think, and the weird thing is I read comic books and I don't mind animation in that form.
Marc:I just don't, I like raw things.
Marc:So I think the whole art of it, even though I can appreciate it, I never think I'm going to really emotionally connect with it, but I certainly did with that.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Marc:Do you think it could win Best Picture?
Guest 3:I don't.
Guest 3:I mean, they have that animated film category.
Guest 3:So I think that's where it wins.
Marc:Oh, I just saw District 9 on the plane.
Marc:Did you like it?
Marc:I did until a sci-fi buddy of mine ruined it for me.
Guest 3:What do you mean he ruined it for you?
Marc:He just started kind of questioning the logic of certain things.
Marc:And I still, I liked the movie.
Guest 3:Yeah, there's no logic in it.
Guest 3:It's science fiction.
Marc:I know, but you know, real sci-fi guys are like, they want everything to make sense all the way down the line.
Guest 3:Yeah, but, I mean, it's a movie about aliens that are hanging out on Earth.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:Well, I thought it was a pretty great movie, and the guy who played the lead in it was great.
Marc:Obviously, I don't think it's going to win.
Guest 3:Well, but, you know, when you get down to it, talking about animated films, I mean, that movie's half animated.
Guest 3:I know, yeah.
Guest 3:Avatar is like 80% animated.
Marc:I didn't have a problem with the animation of those movies.
Marc:I just don't generally go to see animated movies.
Marc:And the same reason I didn't go see District 9 or I wouldn't have seen Avatar has a lot to do with that.
Marc:I just don't think that they're movies I want to see, even though they're just broad based entertainments.
Marc:I don't know why I didn't go see District nine.
Marc:It was just I I had no idea what it was about.
Marc:But the lead actor was spectacular.
Marc:And I thought that even at the end, I won't be a spoiler, but I can spoil a movie that's been out for a fucking year.
Marc:I don't know how he got the garbage flour to his wife, but the last shot of him making it on the heap of garbage was very poignant.
Guest 3:Yeah, so of all those movies, though, what's your pick?
Marc:I would actually have to say, like Precious, I loved.
Marc:If it's going to come down to, if we're going to hedge the bets, if that's what you say, between Avatar and The Hurt Locker, I would go with The Hurt Locker because I'd never seen a more personal and modernized version of warfare and what people go through.
Marc:And even as a metaphor for Americans' presence in a different culture, I thought it was very resonant.
Guest 3:Hurt Locker was about the best thing I saw.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Guest 3:And I really liked watching Up what you just looked at.
Marc:Yeah, I'm going to watch the rest of that.
Marc:Now, the best actor, I think, is easy for me.
Marc:I say, you know, give it to Jeff Bridges.
Marc:Like a career achievement award?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I think Jeremy Renner in The Hurt Locker was spectacular.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I thought he did a great job.
Marc:But yeah, I guess, yes, I would give it to Jeff Bridges as a career achievement award.
Marc:Supporting actor.
Marc:I've not seen Invictus.
Marc:I've not seen The Messenger.
Marc:I didn't see The Last Station.
Guest 3:I haven't seen any of these movies except for the guy who's going to win.
Marc:Yeah, and I'd give it to him.
Guest 3:The Nazi general from Inglourious Bastards.
Marc:He was great.
Guest 3:Yeah, to me, the only great part of that movie is that guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, no, absolutely.
Marc:I didn't love that movie.
Marc:Leading actress.
Marc:Huh.
Guest 3:Well, you loved Julie and Julia.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, I like her doing anything, but I didn't see it's complicated because I just couldn't put myself through that.
Marc:And I've got a screener and I wouldn't go see it.
Guest 3:I thought the girl who played Precious is particularly good, especially seeing her not playing Precious.
Guest 3:It gave me even greater appreciation.
Marc:Where'd you see her not playing Precious?
Guest 3:She's been on all the talk show circuits, and she's just this- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:As a person, you mean that?
Marc:It was a real- Yeah, no, it was a deep performance.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I would give it to her.
Marc:I haven't seen the Sandra Bullock performance.
Marc:Yeah, no interest.
Marc:Helen Mirren already won one, but so did Meryl Streep, so that shouldn't be a reason.
Guest 3:See, you know, that keeps happening, the Meryl Streep, right?
Guest 3:That people are like, oh, well, she's- You know what the last movie she won for was- The Deer Hunter?
Guest 3:No, it was Kramer versus Kramer.
Guest 3:Really?
Guest 3:That's like 1979.
Guest 3:I guess because she's nominated and she's always- I take that back.
Guest 3:Sophie's Choice, which was in like, but also early 80s.
Marc:She was great as Julia Child.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And she's always great to watch.
Marc:I wouldn't have any problem with them giving it to her.
Marc:Best Supporting Actress has to go to Monique.
Marc:I mean, that thing was just-
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Mind bending.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Guest 3:I think that's one of those things too, where everybody else kind of steps out of the way and says like, well, we, we understand you did something different than I've never seen anything like that scene in the social worker's office.
Marc:The end of the movie where she's trying to defend her position.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That was like, I'd never seen anything like that anywhere.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Guest 3:For a movie that didn't speak to me very well, and I'm not faulting it for not speaking to me, the two central performances were very good.
Marc:Unbelievable.
Guest 3:And Mariah Carey was good in that movie, too.
Marc:Awesome.
Marc:I didn't even know it was her.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I was like, she kind of looks familiar.
Marc:Do I know her from being around?
Guest 3:There were a bunch of people like that, like the girl from The View, Sherry Shepard.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Guest 3:She was good.
Guest 3:She had a couple of scenes, and I didn't, again, realize it was her.
Guest 3:Lenny Kravitz.
Marc:I didn't even know it was Lenny Kravitz.
Guest 3:Right, same.
Marc:Same thing.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Guest 3:Did you know it was him?
Guest 3:I did.
Guest 3:I did before I watched it.
Marc:I didn't know anything about any of it.
Marc:That was great.
Marc:Best director.
Marc:And I'll probably go to Cameron.
Guest 3:I don't think so.
Guest 3:I mean, the Oscars have a chance here to correct many decades of not having a woman even be recognized in the category.
Marc:So you think Harry Walker is going to happen?
Guest 3:I think so.
Guest 3:Well, I think it definitely will in that category.
Guest 3:Okay.
Guest 3:And you know, they're ex-spouses.
Marc:I think I did know that.
Guest 3:Cameron and her.
Marc:Oh my God.
Marc:So that loads it up.
Guest 3:Yeah.
Marc:And they're both opposite ends of the spectrum.
Marc:That adds a little subdrama.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:To the whole thing.
Guest 3:Although what has kind of gotten lost in there is that the guy who directed Precious is only the second African American to ever get nominated for that award.
Marc:Who was the first?
Guest 3:The guy who did Boys in the Hood.
Marc:Oh, John Singleton.
Marc:Yeah, I like I love Baby Boy.
Guest 3:Oh, yeah, that's a good movie that I love the radar.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I've I've watched that movie four or five times.
Marc:I don't even know why.
Marc:I think it's a great movie.
Marc:Yeah, I just I like all of it.
Marc:I actually thought I saw John Singleton in the airport in L.A., and I wanted to go up.
Marc:When I saw Baby Boy, I wanted to have my management figure out a way I could contact him to say I liked it.
Marc:I don't know what it would mean to him or anything.
Marc:But there was some part of me that's sort of like, he'd probably like to hear a white guy saying that he watched his movie three times.
Marc:And then I saw this guy who looked like him in the airport.
Marc:I'm like, are you John Singleton?
Marc:The guy's like, no.
Marc:And I'm like, oh, well, I really like Baby Boy a lot.
Marc:So, yeah, some black guy.
Marc:So if you see John Singleton when you go to your meetings.
Marc:But yeah, well, so we'll see what happens.
Marc:Anything else?
Guest 3:No, I mean, they're saying that they've they're producing the show totally differently this year.
Guest 3:They're really like cracking down on the length of speeches.
Guest 3:So you may see quite a number of people getting that rude, you know, playoff music.
Guest 3:I mean, some of them are good, though.
Guest 3:I always feel that way.
Guest 3:I would much rather watch just some tech guy, an art director, thank a million people and be honest and raw than watch some stupid musical number.
Marc:No, absolutely.
Marc:I think that they should gauge it per speech.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I guess they couldn't do that.
Guest 3:If you're just like, this guy's boring, give him that.
Guest 3:Oh, shit, this guy's crying and talking about his mom who has cancer.
Guest 3:Leave him on there.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:This is good.
Marc:This is good TV.
Marc:That'd be hilarious.
Marc:Some guys just sort of, I'd like to think.
Guest 3:So what are your bets?
Guest 3:Well, if I had to bet, I would put a lot on the Hurt Locker right now.
Guest 3:But, you know, never underestimate a $500 million blue 3D thing.
Marc:That made a billion dollars.
Guest 3:Right.
Guest 3:It made more than $2 billion now.
Guest 3:Oh, my God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I got an email from a guy that basically said, you know, quit whining about righteous money talk.
Marc:The bottom line is they made the movie.
Marc:It cost a lot of money.
Marc:It made a lot of money.
Guest 3:Shut up.
Guest 3:It's real gambling, and they hit it.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, we'll see what happens.
Marc:Okay, that's it.
Marc:Do you feel enriched?
Marc:Do you feel excited about the Oscars?
Marc:Do you feel excited about buying my friend Sam's book, The Ask, which you should?
Marc:It's hilarious.
Marc:Do you feel like going to Jim Wolcott's blog or reading Vanity Fair?
Marc:Because if you've never heard of Jim or you've never read his stuff, he's really astute and he's one of the great cultural critics.
Marc:I am very excited about what happened here today.
Marc:I feel better.
Marc:It won't last.
Marc:But I hope you enjoyed the show.
Marc:And if you need anything comedy related, punchlinemagazine.com and do that thing.
Marc:Go to wtfpod.com and do that thing.
Marc:Have a good day.