Episode 499 - Aasif Mandvi
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking here is what the fuck rakers welcome this is wtfi mark maron thank you thank you for joining me today on the show asif mandvi
Marc:From The Daily Show and from the new film Million Dollar Arm.
Marc:I think we'd met once or twice before we passed at different points in our lives.
Marc:And I had a great time with him.
Marc:His family's from India originally.
Marc:And as you know, some of you.
Marc:I have a fascination with the idea of going to India or India in general, which makes me ask questions occasionally that may seem somewhat ignorant, but they're genuine.
Marc:I don't know the history of everything.
Marc:You know, sometimes people who listen to this show get a little touchy, and I understand that.
Marc:Recently got an email from somebody that decided that I was a bigot.
Marc:because of the way I talk to Southerners or about the South, which is not true.
Marc:It's a little lighthearted now, and I think you should relax.
Marc:I enjoy the South a great deal.
Marc:I was just in Nashville.
Marc:I like the food.
Marc:I have a great respect for that part of the country.
Marc:Occasionally ask questions that may seem not so much ignorant, but perhaps a little bit pokey.
Marc:But it's not in my heart.
Marc:My condescension of that regent is done.
Marc:I'm glad everybody enjoyed the RuPaul episode.
Marc:That seemed to cause a little controversy with people who are falling on what side they fall on with the word tranny.
Marc:And I'm glad that engaged that conversation.
Marc:But more than that, it seems that everybody really enjoyed the sort of spiritual dynamic and the psychological dynamic that me and Ru enjoyed.
Marc:I enjoyed it.
Marc:The television show Marin on IFC Thursdays, 10 p.m.
Marc:9 some places on the coasts, 10 p.m.
Marc:Tonight is our third episode.
Marc:And thanks for watching the show.
Marc:Last week's episode did very well.
Marc:I appreciate that.
Marc:Tonight's very exciting.
Marc:Janet Varney and Paul Feig.
Marc:guest star on the show also Dave Koechner somewhat based on truth somewhat fictionalized obviously but but it's a good one it's a good episode of Marin tonight
Marc:And I had to tell my therapist to watch it because there's been a slight history as of late of people taking offense as to characters that are loosely based on them.
Marc:I don't think he'll be upset.
Marc:But if he is perhaps in our next therapy session, I can hear him talk about how he feels about that.
Marc:I wanted to bring to your attention that today is the 499th episode of WTF.
Marc:Monday will be the 500th episode.
Marc:We're putting a show together.
Marc:I guarantee you it will not be the show that you think it's going to be.
Marc:It will be surprising.
Marc:It will be talk about me, and it's still coming together.
Marc:But it's a very exciting few guests, none of which you'll ever anticipate in any way.
Marc:But you can.
Marc:Knock yourself out.
Marc:Saturday, May 31st, I'll be at the National Hispanic Cultural Center in Albuquerque, New Mexico, my hometown.
Marc:A little nervous to go back, but I feel good.
Marc:I hope you people who live there are coming out to see me.
Marc:I don't know how the ticket sales are doing.
Marc:It's a benefit, and I'm happy to help out.
Marc:The Endorphin Power Company, I hope.
Marc:It seems like a good place that does good things.
Marc:Saturday, June 4th, I'll be at the first annual, 26th annual Comedy Festival in Chicago, Illinois.
Marc:Do enjoy Chicago.
Marc:Tuesday, June 24th, I'll be at the Lawrence Arts Center in Lawrence, Kansas.
Marc:Thursday, June 26th through Saturday, June 28th, I'll be at the Comedy Attic in Bloomington, Indiana.
Marc:Thursday, August 14th through Saturday, August 16th, the Comedy Zone in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Marc:As always, if you live in the Los Angeles area, do check with the Comedy Store.
Marc:If I'm in town, I will sometimes do sets there.
Marc:I will be there this Saturday night.
Marc:I believe in both rooms.
Marc:They usually give me both rooms.
Marc:So you can come see that.
Marc:I forgot to tell you, man, when I was staying down at the Hutton Hotel in Nashville, I'm already nervous about whatever.
Marc:I have weird nervousness.
Marc:I have a strange...
Marc:Tangible fear of being at home in my house and, you know, I'm all locked in.
Marc:Everything's good.
Marc:And just like a team of assassins come out of a helicopter or something that resembles a Navy SEAL unit.
Marc:And they just take me away.
Marc:yeah i don't know what that's about i i have no idea i as as some of you know i have a fear of space debris um waking me up uh by pummeling me into the ground like just a giant chunk of a spacecraft coming through through the ceiling and killing me i have that fear um i have a very deep fear of being of being hit in the head with a stick while i sleep and
Marc:So I'm at the Hutton Hotel and I'm just sitting in my room and someone starts pounding on the fucking door.
Marc:Pounding.
Marc:Hear a woman's voice pounding.
Marc:And I'm like, I guess I screwed up somehow.
Marc:I look outside and there's some woman going door to door pounding, pounding.
Marc:It was terrifying.
Marc:um in in that way of sort of like what the fuck is going on out there and then i see her come back to my door and start kicking it and this weird voice came out of me very you know instinctively just goes who are you what do you want like like uh like not what's up but like like that like i wasn't gonna open the door but it was like it was a weird mix of of terror and confidence what is it what what can i do for you who are you what do you want what what is it
Marc:Not very.
Marc:It's not very threatening, though, when I think about it.
Marc:It's more like it's almost like a sort of weird, terrified aggravation.
Marc:They didn't have a lot of confidence in it at all.
Marc:And then I saw the security guy through the little people in the window.
Marc:He was looking at her.
Marc:Then I opened the door and I'm like, what's up?
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:And the security guy looks at me.
Marc:And then there's this woman that looks wild eyed, crazed, crazed.
Marc:And she looks at me and she goes, are you Sean's uncle?
Marc:And I said, no, I don't believe I am.
Marc:And then the security guy said, I'll take care of this.
Marc:And I said, okay.
Marc:I believe it has something to do with Sean.
Marc:Doesn't that just make you wonder what the fuck, what is that story?
Marc:There was a part of me that's sort of like, get the mics out, let's track this.
Marc:Who is Sean?
Marc:What's his uncle doing at this hotel?
Marc:And why is this chick so fucking freaked out?
Marc:Huh?
Marc:What's the backstory there?
Marc:As you know, my dear friend Todd Glass...
Marc:came out on this show and he's got a book called the todd glass situation coming out june 3rd uh you can pre-order it now uh i wrote the forward to that book and i you know and and todd said can i come check in and uh i said yes why don't you come over and check in and uh because he calls me occasionally to tell me he's still gay so let's find that out in person so let's talk to todd glass
Marc:Can I see the book?
Marc:Yes, you can.
Marc:Can I see the book?
Marc:Where'd you put the book?
Marc:Because I believe I'm involved in it.
Marc:You are very involved in it.
Guest:I know it seems like two and a half years and it flew by.
Marc:The Todd Glass situation, a bunch of lies about my personal life and a bunch of true stories about my 30-year career in stand-up comedy by Todd Glass.
Marc:Oh, this is funny.
Marc:Dear blank, it was nice meeting you.
Marc:I really like your blank shirt.
Guest:I did that because I'm not at the point in my career where I feel comfortable just signing a piece of paper when someone gives it to me.
Guest:I feel it's a little cold.
Guest:I get when certain people, they can't, you know.
Guest:So I had a stamp made that said, Dear Blank.
Guest:Then I can go, put their name in, I really liked your blank shirt, whatever shirt they're wearing, and I can sign it.
Guest:So it's quick, but it's a little warmer.
Marc:I wrote the foreword for this, the preface.
Guest:You did, and it was much more than I thought it was.
Guest:I loved it, and I thought you did a great job, and I appreciate it.
Marc:Well, thank you.
Marc:I was happy to do it.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Because it's my fault you're gay, right?
Guest:I thought I'd come on like, Mark, there's something else I want to tell you.
Guest:Listen, it was very difficult because, you know, I thought I would just admit a certain part of me.
Guest:And then I got in my car and I sat outside and I thought, what did I just do to myself?
Guest:Why did I come out as the person that's gay?
Guest:But, you know, doesn't I didn't come 100 percent clean.
Marc:Well, now you talk like this now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I sat in the car and I cried for three hours.
Guest:And I thought, what did I do?
Guest:I got myself into another lie.
Marc:Anyway.
Marc:So now, has it been two and a half years?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And did everything change?
Guest:You know what?
Guest:I was already, you know, like I say, I get sad like everybody else and happy, but sometimes jealous.
Guest:So I didn't think my life would change that much, but holy fuck.
Guest:really yeah yeah it's just the you know you think you get good at juggling the lies and you think you also get good at convincing yourself that hey i have a circle of friends that know it's not like my parents don't know it's not like but still and then who knows and who does you know a lot of people know and they there's so many categories of people people that you know know right they don't they're not allowed to tell you they know right
Marc:Well, what happened, like, what was the biggest change immediately?
Guest:Outside of relief.
Guest:I got outside, not to sound overly dramatic, but I did get into my car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I felt heard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I felt like, you know, I felt like, and I just like that, you know, you know, you know every phrase, but you don't really know it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like, appreciate the simple things in life.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Appreciate your health.
Guest:Yeah, I know what that fucking means.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you don't fucking know what it means.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the expression was the weight off your shoulders.
Guest:Right.
Right.
Guest:oh fuck fuck yeah it's so much better i'm still getting comfortable using phrases and you know and and um saying you know i'm much better than i was like what like like you know like saying the word gay and fabulous do you say fabulous
Guest:um but but uh but i'm getting better at it and um and i'm you know just saying i don't want anyone to think like that i still have a problem with who i am it's just the word it's not who my being is well when you when after a few months after you come out on my show uh were you asked to be a radio guest as gay todd glass you know what only two times something happened like that yeah you know what i mean like oh we're doing get on the show and they're like hey so uh
Guest:Yeah, it's a sports thing.
Guest:And I was like this.
Guest:And I was there.
Guest:Yeah, it was something like you're saying, I think.
Guest:And I said no both times.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, no, I don't really want it.
Guest:I don't want it to make it.
Guest:Let me tell you something.
Guest:If I'm on radio and the gay marriage comes up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Now I can talk about it from an honest place.
Guest:So it's not like I don't want to talk about it at all.
Guest:But like I said, I didn't want it to become my being.
Guest:But yeah, I'm not.
Guest:Of course, I talk about it.
Marc:Did anybody treat you differently?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:Matter of fact, Mark, the biggest thing was, I did a show in Philadelphia, and I would perceive that if after the show, there were these, you know, in my head, I still think I'm in high school, and if people think they're cool, yes.
Guest:The bros.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And you want, oh, they think you're cool.
Guest:So I think...
Guest:They probably don't know because just the way they're, you know, they're there after a show.
Guest:It's at the bar at Helium.
Guest:And then somebody walked away and was the simplest fucking thing that made me, you know, really get a little emotional.
Guest:And they were hanging out all night and they were cool.
Guest:And I was having a good time.
Guest:They got my sense of humor.
Guest:They listened to the podcast.
Guest:So how bad could they be?
Guest:They're cool people.
Guest:And he walked away.
Guest:He goes, I didn't want to say anything before, but like, you know, I think he said good friends.
Guest:for you, for dude, I think you put, for living a real life.
Guest:He goes, I really respect what you did.
Guest:He goes, I'm not gay, but I've had other lies, and they're not so, they don't make your life so great either.
Marc:What surprised you the most about writing?
Marc:Because I found that when I was writing, you kind of find out new things about yourself.
Marc:You're like, oh boy.
Guest:Yeah, well, that was it.
Guest:That was that I didn't sit down to do it.
Guest:It was almost like you could probably figure yourself out better instead of going to therapy.
Guest:Just write a book.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:And don't let anyone, like, no one would have to let you know.
Guest:Like, let's say my mom.
Guest:My mom would be a good example.
Guest:She's brilliant.
Guest:But if I said, hey, mom, they want to write a book about you.
Guest:Instead of going, go to therapy and figure yourself out.
Guest:And she was just talking and talking and talking.
Guest:She would have happened what I had happened and what you had happened.
Guest:I don't like to over-therapize things, but I think some things you can figure out.
Guest:You can untangle things in your life.
Guest:Therapy can be good.
Guest:And I figured out, oh, that's why I do that.
Guest:That's why I speak up for people.
Guest:Why the fuck wouldn't I have known that?
Guest:From writing, you figured that out.
Marc:From writing the book.
Marc:You got into a memory or a thing, and you're like, oh, that was where that started.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Being little, hearing people say shit.
Guest:No one said anything.
Guest:Oh, wow.
Guest:That's why to this day, like, you know, for the saying stuff, just speak up.
Guest:It's so easy to go silent.
Guest:I sat at dinner tables where I don't think the main thing the book was about for me.
Guest:Mm hmm.
Guest:I coined these people the 90 percenters, and these are people that are sort of open-minded, but they have that last little bit of, ah, but I wish they'd give up on this.
Guest:And I realized that- They can turn down the tone a little bit.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, or not give up on the gay marriage.
Guest:And I realized they're the problem.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because the egregious acts, you know, the Matthew Shepard or someone burning a cross, that's how they align themselves with you.
Guest:But if you make your tolerance iron fucking clad, they can't align themselves with you.
Guest:And they do.
Guest:They think the only difference between you and them is they think you're not brave enough to do the shit they do.
Guest:Now, you might go, fuck, that's not true.
Guest:And it's not true.
Guest:I get it's not true, but they fucking think it.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And you're responsible for knowing that.
Guest:Speak up in situations.
Guest:I've been silent, too, in my life.
Guest:You know, of course.
Marc:Because sometimes you're just sort of like, yeah, you know what?
Guest:Am I going to ruin the dinner?
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Is it worth it?
Guest:Or how about this one?
Guest:He's old.
Guest:Yeah, the old is like, is he older than Abraham Lincoln?
Guest:No.
Guest:Is what a friend of mine said.
Guest:Meaning, you know, is that a get out of jail free card?
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I've been silent, but I've learned that, you know, what I'm asking people to speak up about and myself isn't fuck faggots or fuck black people or women can... It's never that.
Guest:It's the fluffier.
Guest:It's the little stuff that we perceive to be, well... Yeah.
Marc:fucking speak up because it's not about whose dinner you ruin whose dinner do you make incredible because someone said something and also because those 10 percenters are usually the ones that that's the one thing stopping them from being active at all is that they're like yeah i support it but i don't really get too involved you know because of that one little because in their mind they're on board but they don't speak up because they're able to rationalize it because they got that one little problem exactly now in your stand-up did your stand-up change at all
Guest:Well, that's a good question.
Guest:It is.
Guest:It did.
Guest:I don't talk about it a lot on stage yet, but at least I stopped talking about my girlfriend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Why?
Guest:You're not with her anymore?
Guest:Well, actually, I'm not, but you're like, Mark, you don't listen to all these interviews.
Guest:How is your girlfriend, Mark?
Guest:Well, first of all, I always felt I wanted to say this when people were like, oh, my God, I had to make up those stories about his girlfriend.
Guest:I wanted to go.
Guest:Well, look, they were real stories.
Guest:I just switched the sex.
Guest:So it's not as sad.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But no, and I'm not with him anymore.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it had nothing to do with this.
Guest:It didn't.
Guest:No, it had nothing to do with this.
Guest:You were with him a long time.
Guest:15 years.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:And to say we're amicable, I don't even like to say because we're better than that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it takes a little work here and there, but it's as special as it was when it was working.
Guest:That's how special it is that it's not working.
Guest:Wow.
Marc:You know what?
Guest:I might have said that weird.
Guest:No, I get that.
Guest:So you guys are all right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But my act, I talk about it once in a while.
Guest:What does it depend on?
Guest:Depends on how I feel.
Guest:But I'm almost sometimes when I get guilty about not talking about it, I think, wait a second, maybe that's exactly what I wanted.
Guest:Not to lie, but not if sometimes- That's your job.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Your job is not being gay.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:But sometimes I do.
Guest:Sometimes it'll come up and I'll talk about...
Guest:And somebody, Louis C.K.
Guest:said something that really did help me.
Guest:He goes, you keep getting ready to talk about it and you're waiting till you're ready to talk about it.
Guest:Just talk about that you're not ready to talk about it.
Guest:And that was actually pretty helpful.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because sometimes I'll talk about the words that I hate on stage and I'll talk about coming out of the closet.
Guest:I'd rather if it was like, you know, busting out of the shed.
Guest:It sounds a little tougher at least.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I'll talk about stuff like that.
Guest:And certainly certain things, you know, I get emails from people now that are saying, you know, about verbiage.
Guest:You know, I know you don't like that word.
Guest:Well, could you stop doing this?
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Like what?
Guest:I'm okay with it.
Guest:I do not want to be one of these people that... Which word did they get you on?
Guest:Sometimes I don't like... Look...
Guest:The words my fight is on is gay or retarded.
Guest:The other ones I don't usually go public on because then I don't want people to be like, oh, my God.
Guest:And you might think, well, aren't you doing it by saying it this way?
Guest:Maybe.
Guest:But for me, I want to keep evolving.
Guest:I don't want to be the type of person that drops one word out of my act and then the other word and then goes, oh, my God, when's it going to stop?
Guest:I'm done evolving.
Guest:Don't fucking brag about that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I don't like saying, I stopped saying pussy because it, you know, the reason those words, I realized with the word with gay, the reason people think it's not bad is they don't see the path of pain where it leads back to.
Guest:I used to use the word retarded.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Because I never saw the path.
Marc:It didn't seem that bad.
Marc:The path of pain.
Marc:I like that.
Marc:No, because I use the word retarded and pussy.
Marc:I use the word cunt for men, but like cunt and pussy, that goes back to what?
Marc:Where's the path of pain with pussy?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, because I'm not a woman, I would imagine it means weak.
Guest:Oh, and it's slang.
Guest:Yeah, and you know what?
Guest:I say coward now.
Marc:I say don't be a coward.
Marc:It's weird because I've negotiated that stuff before.
Marc:I know cunt's no good, even if I don't use it for women.
Marc:I prefer to use cunt for men.
Marc:I like that.
Guest:There's what people do.
Guest:You do find a loophole.
Guest:I know guys that use it for men, too, and then I think, well, but here's my question, the thing with...
Guest:I don't, that's been, by the way, I thought about it driving here.
Guest:The biggest frustrating thing since this is that I'm a little more vocal about certain words.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I even stopped myself, myself.
Guest:I just thought about it when I would say something like, oh, I feel a little heavy or I feel bloated.
Guest:I go, oh, I'm being a little, I don't mean to be a woman.
Guest:I go, don't.
Guest:Do that.
Guest:What do you mean don't be a woman?
Guest:Don't be honest with your feelings?
Guest:And it's such a cop-out.
Guest:First of all, if you're doing it, you're doing it.
Guest:You already did it.
Guest:So you're a woman.
Guest:If you think those feelings are connected with women, well, if you say, I feel heavy, you can't just say it and then go, I don't mean to be a woman about it.
Guest:And I stop saying it.
Guest:I'm like, what am I saying that for?
Marc:You could be more specific.
Marc:I don't mean to act like a woman with an eating disorder.
What?
Guest:It's a person that tries to evolve, but there's still... Hold on.
Guest:I don't mean to act like a woman.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Guest:I'm sorry to say it.
Guest:I don't mean to act like a woman with an eating disorder.
Guest:Well, a guy can have an eating disorder.
Guest:Please, I'm trying to grow here.
Guest:Hey, I get it.
Guest:We would not have fucking great comedy if sometimes we didn't ignore the collective audience.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I get that.
Guest:I'm a goddamn comic first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that doesn't mean that you have a blanket.
Guest:Just listen to the joke.
Marc:You can still be decent.
Marc:Well, some people, I think, do comedy.
Marc:There is a school of comedy that is fundamentally indecent on purpose to push buttons.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I had some of those follow me a few weeks ago, two comedians like that.
Guest:And I was like, all week, I was like, just, you're holding on to that joke for nothing.
Guest:It's not even fucking funny.
Guest:I get it if a joke is brilliant and that crowd that night didn't get that there was irony there.
Guest:Fucking hold on to it.
Guest:Otherwise, like I said, we wouldn't have great comics if you listened to every idiot in the audience.
Guest:Right.
Guest:What about smart people?
Guest:Is anybody smarter than you ever?
Guest:Do you don't think there's people in your audiences that are smart?
Guest:You never get emails from brilliant people.
Guest:That's how we grow.
Guest:Don't you ever get an email from a kind, decent, gentle person that's right?
Guest:Everybody's stupider than you?
Marc:The Todd Glass situation.
Marc:This is available June 3rd, but it's available for pre-order now.
Marc:I'm very proud of you, buddy.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:And I appreciate it.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:You know when you're listening to an interview and it gets too schmaltzy and you're like, I don't want to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I will do one of those things.
Guest:When I pulled up here today and I parked my car and I turned around and I looked out, I will remember that view for the rest of my fucking life.
Guest:Because like I said, I was happy before.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's definitely better now.
Guest:And it all happened sitting in my car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:With nervous stomachache coming in here and then leaving, and it was all better, and I thank you.
Marc:I'm so happy.
Marc:I love you, man.
Marc:The lovely Todd Glass.
Marc:Look, the Todd situation.
Marc:Get it.
Marc:It's fun.
Marc:It's fun.
Marc:He's a fun guy.
Marc:He's excitable.
Marc:He's very funny, that Todd Glass.
Marc:And gay.
Marc:Did you know that he's gay?
Marc:I enjoyed my talk with Asif Manvi, and I want you to enjoy it as well now.
Now.
Marc:Asif?
Marc:Is that right?
Guest:Yeah, Asif.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Have we started?
Guest:We can.
Guest:Oh, I don't know.
Marc:Mondvi?
Marc:I'm not being condescending.
Marc:I just, you know, it's like things get by you.
Marc:I think that everyone knows my name, but I don't know my name.
Guest:I like the way you say it, though.
Guest:You have a real sort of purpose when you say it.
Marc:Yeah, almost like... Mandvi.
Marc:I'm attacking you.
Marc:Mandvi.
Guest:Mandvi.
Guest:It's like I'm being reprimanded.
Guest:It's like I'm in school.
Marc:But that's not the whole name.
Marc:The headmaster.
Marc:There's more to it.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:I would like to hear all of it.
Guest:The full name is Mandviwala.
Marc:Mandviwala.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You want to know what it means?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:There's a city in India called Mandvi.
Guest:And the Wala means sort of people from.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:It's a connecting sort of term.
Marc:Oh, so that's like common.
Marc:It's almost like any name, like Greenwald.
Guest:It's in Gujarati, I think, which is the language that my family speaks.
Guest:So Mandviwala, literal translation is people from Mandvi or connected to.
Marc:You can...
Marc:But that could go back generations.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You can attach wala to anything.
Guest:In fact, this is a funny story that my father... So in Gujarati, the term for honey melon is the word sakarteti.
Marc:Sakar Titi.
Guest:Sakar Titi.
Guest:And so there's a gentleman that my dad grew up with when he was young.
Guest:His name was, his father sold honeymelons.
Guest:They called him Sakar Titiwala.
Guest:And it used to crack up my sister and I all the time because Sakar Titi.
Marc:But that was his name, his legal name?
Marc:He changed it as the Honey Melon from Honey Melon?
Guest:It was just like the guy, I think probably for generations he sold, his family was in that business.
Marc:In the Honey Melon business.
Guest:In the Honey Melon business.
Guest:Sucker Titi business.
Marc:That's a good story.
Marc:Your father had a slightly crass sense of humor.
Marc:That was the line, I imagine.
Guest:I think he always pretended like he didn't quite get it.
Guest:And he'd be like, what's the problem?
Marc:I don't understand.
Marc:Oh, that's funny.
Guest:And then we would be like... Dad doesn't know.
Marc:He's being dirty.
Marc:So your family is from India?
Guest:Originally, yes.
Guest:I was born in India.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:For how long were you there?
Guest:I was there for a year.
Guest:And then I was like, I'm out of here.
Guest:They left?
Guest:Yeah, they left.
Guest:And I left with them.
Guest:For work?
Yeah.
Guest:My dad got a gig at Bradford University in the north of England, and so my whole family moved to the north of England.
Marc:Is he a professor?
Guest:He was a chemist.
Guest:He was a color chemist by trade.
Guest:A color chemist?
Guest:Yeah, which they don't even have anymore because I think it's an obsolete profession.
Guest:I don't even know what they do.
Marc:You have no idea.
Guest:It's sort of like dealing with colors and making chemistry.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:That's where you got it?
Marc:But like for art supplies or perhaps fabrics?
Guest:Yeah, I think fabrics.
Guest:Things like that.
Guest:I think it was like creating colors for fabrics.
Marc:He's not saving lives.
Marc:He was like, I've got magenta nailed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He was like, exactly.
Guest:so we're good on that today i don't think my dad has ever added the words magenta so that's uh that would be cool color chemist he had magenta nailed and also that could sound like something completely different sure a hooker yeah magenta or perhaps a stripper i just nailed magenta i just nailed her it it the color and your mom was uh did she work
Guest:Well, then my father came to England and ultimately became a small business owner and had a shop.
Guest:He sold colors?
Guest:He sold colors.
Guest:That's great.
Guest:Then he made them back.
Guest:He sold candy and newspapers to Brits.
Guest:Was it a shop or a kiosk?
Guest:No, it was a shop.
Guest:It was a shop.
Guest:Why?
Guest:And he had a news agency.
Guest:In England, it's called a news agency.
Marc:You know what's weird is that that is not an unusual Indian business.
Marc:No, no, not at all.
Marc:Like all the Hudson News.
Guest:Yeah, we're very good at selling things.
Marc:Is it just selling things?
Guest:We're good merchants.
Marc:I don't want to generalize.
Marc:I don't want to get into some racial issue here, but your people seem to be all over, if I'm not mistaken.
Guest:We are good at selling things.
Guest:Franchises.
Guest:Yeah, and then saving lives.
Marc:You are.
Guest:Are you generalizing?
Guest:I am.
Guest:I'm being racist right now.
Marc:Okay, but you can do it.
Guest:But I can do it.
Guest:I'm always fascinated when I find out that Indians are behind something, you know, like, oh, that company is owned by an Indian.
Guest:I'm always like slightly proud and also sort of feel slightly like a failure.
Marc:Well, no, you're doing fine.
Marc:But it is sort of curious that the way that American ignorance has classified Indians.
Marc:There's a lot of Indian businesses in this country.
Guest:There are a lot of Indian entrepreneurs and very wealthy entrepreneurs.
Guest:CEOs and executives and surgeons.
Marc:Do you know them?
Marc:I know all of them.
Marc:That's right, I assume, because you guys are in it.
Marc:We're all in it.
Marc:You're in an email group.
Guest:We're like the Jews.
Guest:We're like the new Jews.
Guest:We are the new Jews.
Guest:We all know each other.
Marc:You get the updates.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Hey, Indians.
Marc:Guess who's making some money?
Marc:Me.
Marc:Well, what is the situation being an Indian on... Because, like, I don't know... Here's what I know about India, and it's going to be ignorant.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Not everybody has a tandoor oven in their house.
Marc:Oh, see, now I don't even know what to talk about.
Marc:I just assumed that you guys... No goats?
Marc:You didn't have... No, we didn't have goats.
Marc:What?
Marc:No, none of that.
Guest:That's ridiculous.
Marc:Yogurt, though.
Marc:No.
Marc:There's yogurt, right, in the fridge.
Marc:Some yogurt.
Guest:We did live in a tree, though, so that was... That's odd.
Guest:It was odd.
Marc:It was weird.
Marc:That's not even, I think, essentially Indian.
Marc:No.
Guest:It's just going way back.
Marc:So my mom would make... Wait, let me understand.
Marc:As Indians living in Britain in perhaps a house or an apartment, it didn't come with a tandoor?
Guest:No, it didn't.
Guest:But now... This is blowing my mind.
Guest:I think progress has now allowed us to have tandoor ovens in our homes.
Guest:I made a movie about Indian food.
Guest:Did you know that?
Guest:It was called... Today's Special.
Guest:And it's on Netflix.
Guest:Shameless plug.
Marc:No, no, it's not shameless.
Marc:I feel bad that I didn't watch everything you've done before you came over.
Marc:I'd set aside time.
Marc:And I watched everything you've done.
Marc:No, you have not watched anything.
Marc:No, you know what I did see?
Marc:You're hard not to see.
Guest:No, you know what I did see you do years ago was your one-man show.
Marc:Which one?
Marc:Jerusalem?
Marc:You saw that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you were doing one as well.
Guest:I did a one-man show.
Guest:I don't know what year you did your show.
Guest:99.
Guest:Yeah, so I had done mine the year before.
Marc:And you were like, what's this gag got?
Guest:I was like, come on.
Marc:Jerusalem Syndrome.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Is that a thing?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, but I was working, I was with a sketch comedy group called The Associates.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And The Associates were performing in the same space.
Marc:At Westbeth.
Guest:No, this was at NADA.
Marc:Oh, at Not A 45.
Marc:Not A 45.
Marc:So you saw it in a very raw, lengthy... Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then I saw it later as well.
Guest:Well, I'm glad.
Guest:That was the first thing I think I really saw you do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You feel familiar to me.
Marc:I feel like we've met before.
Marc:We've met several times.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But we don't really know each other.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But you're in movies and on television.
Marc:But I do feel like we've met several times.
Guest:Yeah, we have.
Guest:Well, we did a stand-up show together one time that you were...
Guest:Where was that, New York?
Guest:Yeah, it was in New York.
Marc:At Luna or something?
Guest:Where was it?
Guest:I think it was at... Did I give you attitude?
Guest:You probably did.
Marc:Like, you know, you're not a stand-up.
Marc:Yeah, you're like, what the fuck are you doing here?
Guest:Yeah, were you just a guy... I was just there trying to make some bucks.
Guest:I was just trying to, like, win some points.
Marc:So, okay, so your dad's selling newspapers and candy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In Britain.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Your mom's, what's she doing?
Guest:My mom actually did a, well, she helped him in the shop and then she was also- It was a family business.
Marc:It was a family business.
Marc:So you would go by there and like, you know, you would try to take some candy and your dad would hit your hand?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I would get stuck working behind the counter after school.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:And my mom actually was also a nurse.
Guest:She actually worked in a hospital for a while and she-
Marc:Both of them seem to have lab or medical slash type of jobs and they opted to sell candy.
Guest:Because it's socialized medicine?
Guest:Yeah, probably.
Guest:Isn't that kind of the way it is?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:They started this business and then they just continued.
Guest:Yeah, and then we moved to America.
Guest:Well, they didn't do that well because clearly they were like, let's get the hell out of England.
Marc:Why'd they leave?
Marc:Why'd they leave?
Marc:England's nice.
Marc:It's been around for a while.
Marc:Oh, what I was going to ask you, though, as an Indian person in England, because what I was about to say was I know there's a caste system.
Guest:In England?
Marc:No.
Marc:Well, yeah, there is a class system.
Marc:There is one in England, actually.
Guest:Class system in England.
Guest:Well, I find it satisfying in some kind of...
Guest:It's a long play that the Indians who were colonized and subjugated by the British today, a lot of them live in England and have turned the chicken tikka masala, actually, and the samosa are the most eaten foods in the UK.
Marc:And that's a victory.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's a victory in a way, isn't it?
Marc:Don't you think?
Marc:In a weird way?
Marc:You win.
Marc:Like Ganga Din came over and took over the country.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And a lot of times, sometimes Indians just walk around going, what do you got in the bag?
Marc:Samosas, huh?
Marc:Right.
Marc:How does that feel?
Marc:Yeah, how does that feel?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Go fuck yourself.
Guest:And give us back our jewels while you're at it.
Marc:Okay, so he runs away from England.
Guest:He does.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah, well, it was the 80s.
Guest:You know, Thatcher was in Prime Minister.
Guest:It was a terrible time.
Marc:Because of, she was like, I'm ignorant.
Marc:I know that she was aligned with Ronald Reagan and that she was fundamentally horrendously conservative and sort of a hawk.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I do not know what she did to England.
Guest:You know, I was still like sort of like a kid, so I wasn't so into politics at the time.
Guest:But I know that, you know, the country economically was kind of not doing so great.
Guest:It was in the toilet a little bit, especially like for the sort of middle class, working class Brit.
Right.
Guest:But my dad kind of always wanted to, he always wanted to move to Canada.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then couldn't get visas or whatever.
Guest:And then discovered that he had this friend from college who had moved after school years ago to Tampa, Florida.
Guest:Tampa?
Guest:Lucky you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we ended up going from Bradford, England, which is in the north of England, for those of you who may not know, in the West Yorkshire Pennines, to Tampa, Florida.
Marc:I, of course, knew that.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Yeah, it came right up.
Guest:Because you've got a map of England in front of you, that's why.
Guest:You've got everything.
And...
Guest:So, and then we moved to Tampa, Florida, where it was like, you know, suddenly I was at an American high school and... Ybor City.
Guest:Ybor City.
Marc:Do you know Ybor City?
Marc:There's an improv there that I don't know.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a failed idea, Ybor City.
Guest:Well, Ybor City, when I was there, Ybor City was like the part of town you didn't go to.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But then they tried to make it the part of town you did go to and then they bailed on it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:And now it's like half.
Guest:It's half and half, right?
Guest:It's an idea that... They tried to revitalize it like Times Square in New York, you know, like trying to turn it into something and then just like, ah, fuck.
Marc:No, there was a pull there to the darkness that just wouldn't allow them to open fancy stores.
Marc:Have you performed down there?
Marc:Not recently, but I've been there a few times.
Marc:So Florida from- Tampa, Florida.
Guest:From Britain.
Guest:Yeah, and we didn't know.
Guest:We were like, this is America.
Guest:There's just strip clubs everywhere.
Guest:That's what it is.
Guest:That's America.
Guest:Tampa has more strip clubs than any other city.
Marc:And these wonderfully tolerant people in Florida.
Guest:It's just amazing.
Marc:I hope it's all like this.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:We're here.
Marc:So you get there.
Marc:You're in high school?
Marc:I'm in high school.
Marc:How's that transition for you?
Guest:It was good, you know?
Guest:It was an interesting transition.
Guest:Because I went from an all-boys sort of private school to kind of this sort of American public high school.
Marc:With Florida girls there.
Guest:With everybody on roller skates and sort of, you know.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Was that a thing?
Guest:I don't...
Guest:I mean, it sort of felt to me like I was at the beach all the time, even though I wasn't.
Guest:But for me, from my perspective... It's not that big.
Marc:We're at the beach in St.
Marc:Petersburg, I guess, right?
Marc:Clearwater.
Guest:Yeah, Clearwater, right.
Guest:So, I mean, for me, it was like I was in this kind of high school where... And then everything in America seemed sort of way more casual than in England.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:teachers would like joke around with the students they've all given up it's like none of you guys are going to do anything I remember when I first got to high school they were offering psychology as a class and I just thought that was incredible because in England it was basically it's not even offered as a clinical thing I was like what is this psychology nobody talks about it in England suck it up
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So yeah, so I thought that was, so it was a lot of that, you know?
Guest:And then I just kind of was hanging out there and then I discovered acting.
Guest:And that was really what saved me.
Marc:Were you, was there any resistance to your uniqueness as an Indian once you landed in your school?
Marc:Were there other Indians there?
Marc:Did you entertain people?
Guest:There were not a lot of other Indians.
Guest:There was one other Indian.
Guest:You know, the thing about America that I always find fascinating is in terms of being an Indian immigrant versus being an Indian immigrant in England,
Guest:In England, if you're an Indian immigrant, you're always an Indian immigrant.
Marc:But you're also a very established part of the social fabric.
Marc:Yes, absolutely.
Guest:But there's a long history that goes back, obviously, between England and India and the thing...
Guest:uh whereas in america it's sort of like after a few after a little while they're kind of like there's an attitude in america where like it doesn't really matter where you're from like you know where you're from forget that like you're an american now that's right so just pledge allegiance and just get on with it you know go to the mall right get a handle on what's happening yeah yeah just shop just start shopping
Marc:Figure out who your clique is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, we're the people that are like-minded.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:So I found that, you know, in America, I was this Indian kid who was from Britain and, you know, for a little while it was unique.
Marc:Did you speak with a British accent?
Guest:I did when I first got here.
Marc:That must have been difficult.
Guest:It was interesting.
Guest:I feel like there was a period of my time in my life where I could have used that British accent to get a lot of girls, but it was too dorky to not know how to do it.
Guest:So I just ended up sort of being like, hello.
Guest:And people would say things to me that I didn't understand.
Guest:I remember the first time a guy sort of befriended this American guy when I got to high school.
Guest:At one point he said, well, I'm going to take off.
Guest:And I just remember looking at him like, I'm sorry, you're going to take off?
Guest:and i just dealt with all these like weird sort of you know language things you know um what did he say when you went he was like yeah i'm gonna gonna take out i'm gonna i was like i was like i i really wow that's rather impressive
Guest:I've never seen anybody do that.
Guest:And I waited.
Guest:I was like, never seen anyone do that.
Guest:He walked away and he thought like, well, maybe he'll do it later.
Guest:Yeah, I was like, clearly he has a jet pack.
Guest:He's not taken off yet.
Guest:It's not working.
Marc:He's lying to me.
Marc:He didn't take off at all.
Guest:So, yeah, so I dealt with a lot of little, you know, cultural things like that.
Marc:But nothing bad.
Guest:Not really.
Guest:I mean, you know, I mean, it was sort of, it was more, you know, what happened to me was I sort of became kind of discovered acting and got into theater.
Guest:In high school.
Guest:In high school.
Guest:I mean, I was doing it in England as well.
Guest:But then in high school, it really sort of, I started, that sort of became my click, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In England, I was in a children's theater company.
Guest:I was doing theater from when I was very young.
Guest:Now, wait, did your parents open a newspaper business in Florida?
Guest:They didn't.
Guest:No, my dad had a bunch of different businesses in Florida.
Guest:He actually had an auto paint shop for a number of years.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My dad wanted to open a bicycle repair shop when he first got to Tampa.
Marc:That was his dream.
Guest:No, it was just something he thought was cool.
Guest:And so I was like, dad, you've never even ridden a bicycle.
Guest:I don't know why you think, you know, my parents were like sort of entrepreneurs in a way.
Guest:They were like, we'll open a bicycle.
Guest:And then one day I woke up and my mother was like baking cookies and she was like, we're opening a bake shop.
Yeah.
Marc:But I like that they were entrepreneurs, but it was reasonable.
Guest:It was reasonable.
Marc:They weren't building empires.
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:Just regular working people.
Guest:Brothers and sisters, do you have?
Guest:I have a sister.
Marc:How's she doing?
Guest:She's doing great.
Guest:She's a psychologist.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Private practice.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:She lives very well.
Marc:Where'd she live?
Guest:She lives in Tampa.
Marc:Oh, she's still in Tampa.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:She's down in- A lot of people in trouble down there.
Guest:It's amazing that she charges nothing compared to what my therapist charges.
Guest:Right.
Guest:She charges nothing.
Guest:I'm like, wow.
Marc:You got to do what the market will bear.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:In New York, you're paying top dollar.
Marc:But she probably only has people talk very fast.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And 20 minutes.
Marc:20 minutes.
Marc:Let's get this in and out.
Marc:And they're not dealing with New York stress.
Marc:No.
Marc:That's a whole other thing.
Marc:Or the strange luxury problems.
Guest:Right.
Marc:Exactly.
Yeah.
Marc:They're trying to figure out how to get their kids back from the man that stole them, who they were married to.
Marc:You're trying to figure out why you get anxious after you've had three cups of coffee and your agent hasn't called.
Guest:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:You just completely just summed up my life.
Marc:It's tough, man.
Marc:I'm glad you're holding up.
Guest:I'm still here.
Guest:I'm still here.
Guest:My agent still hasn't called, but I'm here.
Marc:So you're in high school and you're doing theater.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Musicals, I always like to know if people sing and dance.
Guest:I never did musicals.
Marc:Never.
Guest:I wasn't a singing, dancing kind of person.
Guest:I was more like sort of straight theater, you know.
Marc:In high school, so you're not doing O'Neill.
Guest:I was, was doing, no, I wasn't doing, but we were, you know, studying in college, like we did that stuff.
Marc:I'm talking high school in Florida.
Guest:Well, in high school, we did more sort of high school plays.
Marc:Bye Bye Birdie?
Guest:No, it's a musical.
Guest:No, we did a play called Up of the Down Staircase, which was about high school kids.
Guest:So it was good because it was like a play about high school kids for high school kids.
Marc:Maybe they can learn something.
Marc:Right.
Marc:How'd that sell?
Guest:Good?
Guest:It was good.
Guest:There's a play version of the movie M.A.S.H.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Did you know that?
Guest:No, I didn't.
Guest:I don't know who wrote it, but there was a play version.
Guest:So we did the movie.
Guest:We did the play M.A.S.H.
Guest:And I played Walt Waldowski.
Guest:I don't know who that was.
Guest:He was the Polish guy.
Guest:And there was a whole scene where they spook him because he thinks he's got some... Oh, and he's going to kill himself.
Marc:Yeah, he's going to kill himself.
Guest:It's a whole thing anyway.
Guest:So they didn't have any Polish-looking guys, so they got the Indian guy.
Marc:They switched it.
Marc:The Pole.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Did they switch the name?
Guest:No, it was still called Walt Waldowski.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That was my first big dad.
Guest:But you loved acting?
Guest:I did, yeah.
Guest:That's where I started, really.
Marc:In high school?
Guest:And that's what I do now.
Guest:I know you're an actor.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:That's kind of where my career began, was sort of on stage.
Marc:In high school?
Marc:In Tampa?
Marc:In Tampa.
Marc:What was some of your first paid work as an actor?
Guest:Well, actually, after college, I got a gig at Disney at the MGM Studios in Orlando.
Guest:It was a street improvisational comedy troupe.
Marc:So you didn't have to wear a head?
Guest:No, I wasn't like a goofy.
Guest:But I hung out with those guys in the trailer.
Guest:You did?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:We would share the trailer with all of the Mickeys and Minisies.
Marc:So you'd be in some sort of, what was your outfit?
Marc:If you're at Disney, they must have required you to wear some matching clothing with the other people.
Guest:Well, what they did was, so they hired a bunch of actors and comedian types to be in this comedy troupe.
Guest:We all had different characters that we played that were sort of supposed to be like people who lived in Hollywood in the 1940s, right?
Guest:Because the whole premise of the place was Hollywood.
Guest:MGM.
Guest:The glory days.
Guest:The glory days of MGM.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so we, you know, would dress up as like agents and gossip columnists and street sweepers and cops.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Keystone cops and all that.
Guest:So I was actually played a character who was a cab driver from New York.
Marc:Already typecast.
Marc:Already, right?
Marc:Right out of the gate.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was better, like if they were really going back, they could have put a turban on you and you could have been the weird mystic.
Guest:But I was like, I know, but I was a New York cabbie.
Guest:So I just decided to make him like this New York cabbie.
Guest:And I used to talk like, hey, how you doing with somebody?
Guest:You know, I would just do that.
Guest:People loved it.
Guest:And the New Yorkers loved it.
Guest:Because they would, you know.
Guest:They'd come down like, get the home fries out your ears.
Guest:You know, like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it was kind of a lot of that stuff.
Marc:So you would have a little freedom to be funny.
Guest:Yeah, we'd be funny.
Guest:We'd do sketches.
Guest:We'd do bits.
Marc:And then you'd go back to the trailer seeing a guy with a goofy head on his lap looking dejected.
Guest:We used to be in the trailer with all the guys and the girls who played the characters.
Guest:So our trailer was just filled with decapitated Mickey heads on the wall.
Guest:It was just like Mickey's and Goofy's and stuff.
Marc:They probably envied you guys because you had a little more freedom.
Marc:You could talk.
Guest:But they would, I remember one time I went out there and I was doing my thing and Pluto came out and he was, and they'd get mobbed when they would come out, right?
Guest:By kids.
Guest:Like by kids, yeah.
Guest:And the Pluto, the kid inside, he was like whatever, like some white pimple faced young kid, right?
Guest:He turned his head and his head flew off.
Yeah.
Guest:And I just remember there were like screaming children and this little boy.
Guest:A catastrophe.
Guest:He was like, ah!
Guest:And the Disney suits came down and grabbed him and literally ushered him out the gate.
Guest:He was renditioned.
Guest:Yeah, it was like when Reagan got shot.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:It was just like, boom!
Guest:They were on top of him and they moved him out and they were like, that didn't happen, people!
Guest:That never happened!
Guest:And children are crying and screaming.
Guest:Just like, you know, what happened to Pluto?
Guest:And his head is lying on the ground.
Guest:And then another Disney suit comes in and sweeps up the head.
Marc:And to this day, there are grown people now who are like, that's when Innocent ended for me.
Marc:I knew there was no Easter Bunny.
Marc:There was no Santa.
Marc:Pluto was bullshit.
Marc:That's where the drugs started.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:There's a whole generation of kids in that.
Guest:Those 10 kids.
Marc:Those 10 kids.
Marc:What happened to them now?
Marc:Where's that daily show piece?
Guest:They now have huge recording careers.
Guest:what okay so okay so you're doing that yes where do you go to college in so i went to the university of south florida so you stayed down there i did yeah i was state school well because i i i was not a citizen yet so how long does that take it took a long time what was the problem we couldn't they just wouldn't give us the thing we had the green card but that's all we could get it was hard yeah so i was you know so i was i couldn't really afford to go out of state because right like you know my parents were kind of like
Guest:yeah baking and painting cars yeah trying to make ends meet i'm at state university and i'm basically taking theater so you know it's like so your dad's like what are you doing yeah my dad they're just like they i think they were like jesus this is gonna be bad was there pressure though to do something else yeah initially yes i think i i i think what was you know it's what is that
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Are you leaving?
Marc:Everything all right?
Marc:Everything's fine.
Guest:Homeland Security is... They follow you around?
Marc:Insert hack racist joke here.
Marc:I think they're coming for you.
Guest:Oh, my goodness.
Guest:here we go here we go here we go got a muslim in the room they're coming i think what happened was you know a lot of indian uh people will come up to me later in life and they'll be like how'd you do it how'd you like become an actor because indian people and south asians because they would be like we know the culture and you know what i mean like it doesn't you don't just go off and be an actor right it's very rare you know
Marc:Well, there's a lot of – it seems to me just by virtue of like this entrepreneurial spirit and this ability to run businesses that it's part of the culture.
Marc:There is a sort of push to earn and to work.
Guest:To earn and do something sensible, you know, to go into like get a degree or go into business or, you know, do something that is going to make everybody some money and some –
Marc:I think there's a concern, especially with that first generation, the kids of the first generation.
Marc:Look, I ran a body shop so you could what?
Guest:Right, yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly.
Marc:Not sure that you could become gay, you know?
Marc:Right, whatever it is you're doing.
Guest:No, but I think what happened for me was that my parents were going through this period of time where they were adjusting to another country and they were trying to build a life.
Guest:And so those first few years in America were a struggle.
Guest:They were hard.
Guest:They were sort of trying to make ends meet.
Guest:They were trying to business here and this and trying to do that.
Guest:Was religion part of your life?
Guest:Yeah, somewhat.
Guest:My parents were relatively religious.
Marc:What does it mean to practice as a Muslim conservatively?
Guest:Well, I mean, my mother became much more conservative later on in her life.
Marc:But I mean, I'm saying in the way that a Jew, like not Orthodox, like if you're not religious Muslim, what is the habits?
Marc:If you are religious?
Marc:No, if you're not.
Marc:I mean, you didn't grow up that religious, right?
Marc:But do you go somewhere once a week?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you basically, it's like you get roped into going to the mosque at the holidays or the big holidays or the big things, the big prayer nights or whatever.
Guest:That's when you go and you mostly do it just to like, I did it, you know.
Guest:Placate your parents.
Guest:Placate your parents and stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I mean, there was a period in my life where I sort of, I guess, was seeking some kind of spiritual, I mean,
Guest:I think when I was in my early 20s and whatever, and I sort of started becoming more of a practicing Muslim, and I would pray more.
Guest:Daily?
Guest:Yeah, I think it started for me when I was... Well, it's funny how things happen because it started for me when I... I was sent to boarding school when I was 13 years old in England.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And it was a miserable experience.
Guest:Really?
Guest:A lot of racism and a lot of kind of, you know, just...
Guest:British class system that we talked about, right?
Guest:So I think I just sort of was seeking some kind of spiritual connection when I was there.
Marc:Interesting, because you felt isolated.
Guest:I felt isolated and I felt sort of abandoned.
Guest:And so there was a sense of that's when I really started
Marc:If they're going to isolate you for being something, minds will go all the way.
Guest:Right, exactly, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And I would get beaten up for praying to Allah.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, there would be sort of a sense of like, what the fuck are you doing?
Guest:But I would...
Guest:So I would pray and stuff because it was mostly just I wanted to get the fuck out of that school, you know, and and then that.
Guest:So there was a kind of that's sort of where it got seeded a little bit for me.
Guest:And then later in life, I think it was always kind of part of my.
Guest:You knew you could go there.
Guest:Experience.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, you know, and comforting.
Guest:It was, yeah.
Guest:It was for a long... And then I think I became sort of disillusioned with it later, you know, in my 20s.
Marc:Well, it's weird because if it's not something you need to keep your shit together...
Marc:Whether you're disillusioned or not, a lot of times ritual is a habit that grounds you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You don't need to have some sort of tremendous crisis of faith to stop.
Marc:A job could be like, I feel okay about myself.
Guest:I always feel like religion is a little bit like
Guest:a sports team you know what I mean like it's like it's kind of what you grew up with so you always kind of support that religion or that team even though sometimes you think like they're just they're not doing that well you know but you kind of you kind of give up on them you know like ah you know they're not some bad players but then if they do well you're kind of like oh I'm glad I'm glad you know so it's a little bit like that
Marc:But in your 20s, you went back to it, what, after you moved to New York?
Guest:I think, yeah, after sort of Orlando and all of that, I kind of- Orlando, the MGM experience?
Guest:The MGM experience, and then came to New York and all that.
Marc:How'd you come to New York?
Marc:How'd you decide that?
Marc:How'd you put the money together?
Marc:What'd you tell your parents?
Guest:I had no money.
Guest:I was just literally, I was dating a girl.
Guest:who lived in Orlando, and she was like, I'm going to New York.
Guest:You're going to be an actress?
Guest:Yeah, to do theater, to do whatever.
Guest:I was like, I'll go to New York.
Guest:It was kind of like one of those things where I was like, what am I going to do next?
Guest:I'm not going to stay in... How did your parents take it?
Guest:that by that point i think my parents had sort of resigned themselves to this reality that i might actually be doing this because i i left college or you know usf to go and work at disney right so i was you quit college yeah i kind of i didn't get my degree i was kind of like i was you know several whatever credits away from my degree and i just was like i'm gonna go back and finish later i'm gonna go make money and do perform i'm performing yeah it's what i want to do so i'm just gonna go and do that i'm the cabbie
Guest:yeah so i'm gonna go you know and at the time i was like making 400 bucks a week which was unheard of you know i was like ah it's great rich yeah so i went and then of course the whole thing is like you go you if you leave school you never go back because you never hangs over you yeah you're just like you'll go and then other things happen and then you end up you know like for me i ended up in new york and then it was like i'm when am i gonna go back to school now you know so you go to new york with this chick
Guest:Yeah, and then I was in New York, and I was auditioning for theater.
Guest:Where were you living?
Guest:I was living in Queens.
Guest:Where?
Guest:I got this one bedroom.
Guest:I had one room in a railroad apartment with a bunch of South American grad students, and we shared a kitchen, and it was kind of like this literally had a mattress on the floor.
Marc:In what part of Queens?
Guest:Long Island City.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I lived there for...
Guest:Like 10 years.
Marc:10 years?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With those guys?
Guest:Well, then I moved into a larger apartment, but in the same sort of place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I lived there from like... It was easy, right?
Marc:It was easy.
Guest:I was paying nothing.
Guest:I mean, I was paying like 400 bucks a month in rent.
Marc:Wow, you could have stayed at Disney.
Guest:I know.
Marc:And commuted or whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so in New York, I think I was able to survive because I had so little to pay in rent.
Marc:How long did it last with the girl?
Guest:Not much longer.
Guest:Then that ended.
Guest:And then I was sort of by myself and I was kind of like in New York.
Marc:Were you sad?
Marc:When the girl ended?
Marc:How long did it take for you to feel like something was happening?
Guest:I would get little things here and there.
Guest:I got an understudy role in a play at Lincoln Center.
Guest:I got a commercial here.
Guest:Were they typecasted?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, no, not the theater stuff, not so much.
Guest:I do a lot of Shakespeare, because in Shakespeare, you know, they always go non-traditional casting, right?
Marc:Let's get an Indian guy.
Guest:Yeah, so I'd play great roles in Shakespeare, and I couldn't get cast in anything else.
Guest:Did you train in Shakespeare?
Guest:Well, I did Shakespeare in school, yeah.
Marc:When you were in South Florida or earlier?
Marc:In South Florida, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you had a handle on it.
Guest:I knew how to do Shakespeare, yeah.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:So I was getting cast at the North Carolina Shakespeare Festival or stuff like that.
Guest:Hudson Valley Shakespeare Festival.
Guest:They cast out of New York?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So they just run auditions and auditions.
Guest:And then you go down, you spend three months.
Marc:You were the outside of the box guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:This guy seems to sound like one of us.
Guest:They were like, we got to go with a black guy or a brown guy at some point, you know, some color.
Guest:So so I get like roles.
Guest:I actually so I kind of was making a little bit of a living and then I was also cater waitering and do another shit like that.
Marc:The traditional caterweight.
Guest:Yeah, doing that.
Guest:Standing outside Actors' Equity at five in the morning with my headshot and resume and a cup of coffee.
Guest:Yeah, it was like all that, you know?
Marc:And you were really working it.
Marc:You were ambitious.
Guest:I would get up and go and audition for like Pippin and like, you know, Poughkeepsie.
Marc:What would you call your first big break?
Yeah.
Guest:my first big break actually um was my one-man show i think that i that i started writing because i got so frustrated with like sort of doing nothing bullshit you know what but you were doing like summer shakespeare i was doing theater but commercials i did commercials but i really wanted to break into like tv and movies and and stuff like and the way to do that at that time what year are we talking
Guest:We're talking 98 was when I actually did the show.
Guest:But I was just early, mid-90s, you know?
Guest:And there were no brown people on TV at that point.
Marc:And one-man show was still a viable option.
Marc:I mean, it was always a viable option.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And what was it called?
Guest:It was called Sakina's Restaurant.
Guest:And, you know, look, I had seen... I was a big fan of Boghossian and Leguizamo and those guys.
Marc:Yeah, that performance arts scene.
Marc:You could still do that.
Marc:I mean, I did it.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And...
Guest:It was one of those things where I was like, I watched those guys and I had done their stuff in school.
Guest:Like I had been Bogosian when I was in school.
Guest:And so I, you know, I started writing my own stuff.
Guest:Because what happened was that I thought, well, I'll go do stand-up.
Guest:and I started doing stand-up, and I realized, like, as I sort of, I don't think I was a very good stand-up, and I started doing it.
Marc:It's also a hell of a path.
Marc:You know, I mean, if you've got a broader talent and you don't have a passion for stand-up, you know, it's a long journey.
Marc:I mean, to sort of have it in your mind that you're an actor and you could do a one-man show and then be like, oh, you got four minutes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's at 1.30 in the morning, and that's how it starts.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Stand-up stressed me out.
Guest:It really stressed me out.
Guest:And I think it takes... I'm impressed by the people who, like, have stuck with it over the years and taken the beatings, you know, because it's a torturous way to live.
Guest:It's terrible.
Guest:I know.
Guest:And, you know, so I would get up and I'd go to, like...
Guest:In New York.
Guest:It was across the street from the improv, the old improv.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:On 44th Street?
Guest:Yeah, I was, like, down there somewhere.
Guest:And I'd go to Yale Triple In at, like, one in the morning and get up and, like, do, like, you know, jokes for, like, fucking eight people or whatever.
Guest:And I was terrible.
Guest:I was a terrible stand-up.
Marc:Do you remember what was your angle?
Guest:It was just stuff like, you know, I think one of the...
Guest:First jokes I ever wrote was, like, about working, like, my girlfriend is, I'm Indian, but I was raised in England, and my girlfriend is American, but she's Dutch and, you know, German, so we're going to get married at Epcot Center.
Guest:You know, like, it was that, like, stuff, right?
Guest:It was terrible.
Guest:Just awful, awful stuff.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And I realized that I hated doing stand-up.
Guest:I was not good at it.
Guest:And what developed out of it, though, were these characters.
Guest:And I started sort of wanting to write characters that were actually where I could act and sort of inhabit these characters and do that.
Marc:And that was the basis of the one-man show?
Guest:And that was the sort of genesis of the one-man show.
Marc:What was the premise?
Guest:Well, I just took my family.
Guest:I was like, what if I did a character based on my dad?
Guest:Or what if I did a character based on my sister?
Guest:And I would just do these and I would just write monologues.
Guest:And that sort of evolved into a more theatrical kind of thing.
Guest:And it was not for stand-up clubs anymore because stand-up is so much about the joke.
Marc:No, it's a whole different world.
Marc:It's definitely the trenches.
Guest:So I would do these characters in stand-up clubs and people would be like, it's not funny.
Guest:It's interesting, but it's not funny.
Marc:Yeah, it's the worst.
Marc:You seem to be good at something, but not this.
Guest:So I was like, I don't want to be interesting in a stand-up club.
Guest:That's the worst thing to be.
Marc:So how long did it take for you to create the one-man show?
Guest:Well, then I started studying with a guy in New York named Wynn Handman.
Guest:I've heard about that guy.
Guest:He is in his 90s now.
Marc:He was a big guy.
Marc:Like he was an important acting teacher.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, he was one of the premier acting teachers in New York and is today and had his sort of roster of people that have studied with him, everybody from Raul Julia to Denzel Washington to Richard Gere to, you know.
Guest:And he also had Boghossian and Leguizamo and these guys in his class and he helped develop them.
Marc:What did you learn from him?
Guest:I learned how to write a one-man show.
Guest:I basically got in this class.
Guest:I auditioned for him.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And got in this class.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And it's mostly a scene.
Guest:It was a scene study class where you get up and do like, you know, check off or whatever.
Guest:But then I started working on these characters.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he would let you bring them in?
Guest:And he would let me bring them in and he would help me develop them and shape them and give dramatic tension.
Guest:Because I would just write these monologues, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That would just kind of like me spouting off everything I wanted to say.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then he would be like, okay, that's very interesting and not particularly dramatic.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And so he taught me how to write theater.
Marc:So he's working as a dramaturg.
Guest:Yeah, like he would help me construct tension and drama.
Marc:So as an actor, you were good.
Guest:I felt like I was, yeah.
Marc:You didn't learn anything from any keys to the craft of acting necessarily, but...
Guest:Well, he did give me, I mean, inherently in that process was also learning about the craft of acting.
Guest:I remember one of the things Wynn said to me is like, when you're writing a character that's a one-man show, you've got a character and that character is going to be on stage for the next 10, 15 minutes.
Guest:There's no way you can prepare for the journey that you're going to go on emotionally as this character.
Guest:The only thing you can prepare for is the first moment.
Guest:So, find the key that unlocks that first moment and then let the ride take you.
Guest:And that was very helpful in sort of performing a one-man show because unlike a play where you have another actor or character prompting you into the next moment.
Guest:Right.
Guest:you're doing it all yourself.
Guest:It's all self-motivated in a one-man show.
Guest:It's just you and your own writing that's taking you emotionally from one place to the next.
Guest:So he gave me an interesting tip, which was, well, not tip, it was actually a lesson, which was that don't try and prepare for the whole thing.
Guest:Just prepare for that first moment and then you will let the emotions carry you through the thing.
Guest:And also just in terms of
Marc:And that also gets you out of the script.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Once you get that in, and especially these are personal characters for you, it gets you out of... It gets you in the present.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It forces you to be in the present.
Guest:And in the present, you can create things that you never thought that you would... That was what was so great about Wynn's Class and developing that.
Guest:I could get up in front of other actors and essentially an audience twice a week and just perform...
Guest:And what it was able to do, it allowed me to improvise and create in the moment and then go back and be like, oh, I'm going to, okay, this is how I can put that in.
Guest:And that was really an important thing.
Guest:It's a luxury that you don't always get.
Marc:Well, yeah, I mean, I do that when I try to craft stand-up.
Marc:I just get myself a space and bring people that like me in.
Marc:And do that.
Marc:And just do that.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And you fail and things don't work.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's great.
Guest:And it's the process.
Marc:It is.
Marc:It's a more emotionally engaged process than writing a joke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you realize also that there are so many things that are funny that you don't think are funny.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So what happens in that experience is, because you can sit in front of your computer or whatever and write a joke and be like, this is really funny.
Yeah.
Guest:But then you get up on stage and nobody laughs because it's too contrived and constructed and whatever, right?
Guest:But then something very human happens and something very real happens.
Guest:And that makes everyone just bust a gut.
Marc:And then you just rack your brain as to how to recreate that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you can't actually.
Guest:What you can do is you can sort of...
Guest:Tag it as like, okay, so this is what, but you have to live it every time.
Guest:And that was so great about doing Skinner's Restaurant.
Guest:And I got to do it for almost, when we finally did it at the American Place Theater, which was Wynn's Theater in 98, I got to do the show for almost six months.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:the show evolved and you would lose jokes and then you'd get jokes back and then you try to figure out.
Guest:And that's what I love about theater is that in theater, you learn how to sort of, you go on a journey where you have this thing and it's beautiful and it works and then at some point you lose it and you're like,
Guest:fuck, nobody's paying attention anymore.
Guest:Nobody's laughing.
Guest:Especially me.
Guest:I'm not really crying anymore.
Guest:I'm just fucking bullshitting up here.
Guest:And I've got to get it back.
Guest:And that is the brilliance and the sort of wonder of theater for me is that moment when you're like, okay, how do I get this back?
Guest:Because I can't do the same thing I did and I can't just sort of bullshit my way through this.
Guest:I've got to find the truth in a different way again.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, and that's when I found, you know, like that's what was so great about doing Suki in this restaurant for six months was I would find different elements to that same story that allowed it to be new for me and new for the audience after like having done it for four months.
Marc:And you had the creative freedom to change it up if you wanted.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that is the thing.
Guest:It's the actor's medium.
Guest:There's no other medium like theater.
Guest:that is so dependent on the actor and what they do.
Marc:Right, but if you started riffing in the middle of Henry, you're not going to.
Marc:Oh, yeah, sure, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, you can't, yeah.
Marc:Because I wrote it.
Guest:I could do anything.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, if you just started launch on your own rant in the middle of the.
Guest:Although I have seen actors go off on a rant in the middle.
Guest:Shakespeare?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:oh yeah I did it once I was doing Taming of the Shrew down at North Carolina Shakespeare Festival I walked out on stage I had the first line of the play I said the first two words and I completely forgot what the rest of the I had a monologue and I completely forgot and we were on the road we were like we've been doing the show like eight shows a week you just went blank I just went completely blank and the other guy looked at me on stage and he was like you're on your own pal
Guest:He was just looking at me and I'm just like, holy shit.
Guest:And the thing is, I remember holding on to like, I don't know, I think there was like a pole or something.
Guest:And I just held on to it because it somehow felt safe for me.
Guest:Like I just needed to hold, ground myself.
Guest:And I started again.
Guest:did not remember anything and just started making up shit.
Guest:Just started making up words and things until, and the thing is, the great thing is that it's the first like five minutes of a Shakespeare play.
Guest:The audience has no idea what the fuck they're listening to.
Guest:Except for the one guy.
Guest:Yeah, so they're just trying to get in tune with the language and the thing.
Guest:And so you could just be like, thou forth has come to me, for I have never seen such a place.
Guest:You know, you're just going, and it's just bullshit.
Guest:And the other guy's just looking at me like, really?
Yeah.
Guest:You're just going to make shit up until you figure.
Guest:And then I finally somehow found the lines.
Guest:You did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then just like, and then like, you know, we're off to the races, but it was like, there was a good, like, I think 30 seconds of me just, you know, for sooth, for thou have never seen Traneo, for I am not what I may seem to be wearing.
Yeah.
Guest:And no one came up to you after?
Guest:People were like, it was brilliant.
Guest:Brilliant stuff.
Marc:Oh, that's the best.
Marc:Just the tone.
Marc:He's in it.
Guest:You just commit.
Marc:You just commit.
Guest:In fact, I did in that same, when I was in North Carolina, a production of King Lear.
Guest:And there was this old actor playing Lear and he would go up on his lines every night.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he had to curse out his daughters in the play.
Guest:And Shakespeare had written these beautiful poetic curses for him to say to Goneril and Regan and all the, you know, and he would forget them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Consistently.
Guest:He would consistently figure out the curses.
Guest:So he would just go into this rant of just using contemporary curses.
Guest:And he'd just be like, thou whore bitch!
Guest:thou tapestry of just vile you know and he would just make up shit and and he would just like start calling them like bitches and whores and like you know sluts i think he used slut which is not a word yeah you know like you know or you know um so a loser yeah how loser
Guest:loser really um and the audience never knew he put the l on his forehead yeah exactly the hand up people in shakespeare the audience acts like they know what's going on they know they're supposed to be there yeah yeah they they've seen the play before so they kind of you know they know oh yeah i know where we're going but most of the time you're just like i i don't know i have no idea it's not my bag true yeah yeah so okay so the one man show does that is that was that your break
Guest:It was it was the moment when I feel like people sort of started to take notice of me a little bit.
Guest:You know, like I got I got a big article in The New York Times.
Guest:Right.
Guest:We got a terrific review.
Guest:And it was when people sort of said, oh, this guy, you know, let's think about him for something here casting, you know.
Marc:But you had done other stuff before that.
Guest:I had.
Guest:I'd done bit parts in movies and things.
Guest:I was working.
Guest:It wasn't like I was doing that, and I was combining that with, like I said, waiting tables.
Marc:I didn't realize you did your cabbie character in Die Hard with a vengeance.
Guest:Yeah, that was my first thing movie ever.
Marc:Did you use the character from the Disney?
Guest:I wish I had time.
Guest:It was literally like if you watch it and you blink, you won't even see me.
Guest:Like Bruce Willis steals my cab on West 72nd Street.
Marc:But you did a lot of those parts where you're like, there's a, okay.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I played a lot of doctors who were just like in the, you know, just one line here.
Marc:The funniest thing about the idea of typecasting is that if you go and look at your filmography and the name of the role.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Terrorist.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Arab cabbie.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Mohammed.
Marc:Aziz Kadeem.
Marc:Khalil Saleh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Indian guy.
Guest:Indian guy.
Marc:That's the best.
Guest:Dr. Shulman.
Guest:Dr. Shulman.
Guest:That was a big break for me when I didn't have to play.
Guest:That was analyze this.
Marc:I like that movie.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:It's like a guilty pleasure of mine.
Guest:I remember Harold Ramis.
Guest:I met with him and I auditioned for Dr. Shulman and I thought for sure they're going to turn into Dr. Patel.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I remember he cast me and I was super excited because I got to work with De Niro and got to the set.
Marc:I'm trying to remember the part.
Guest:I played the doctor who diagnoses De Niro with having an anxiety attack.
Guest:And he's like, I'm having a fucking heart attack.
Guest:What are you talking about?
Guest:And I'm like, no, you're actually having an anxiety attack.
Guest:And he's like, I don't have anxiety attacks.
Guest:It was the very beginning of it, right?
Guest:And so I get on set and I said to Harold, I said, so wait, it says on the call sheet, Dr. Shulman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, I'm just sort of pointed at my face.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was like, I don't know how people are going to react to that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he was just like, he just didn't care.
Guest:He was like, that's fine.
Guest:Dr. Shulman.
Guest:Yeah, I believe it.
Guest:I believe it.
Guest:I was like, I guess I'm Sephardic or something.
Guest:I was like, I don't know.
Marc:Was it bothering you from the point of view of like, how am I going to build this character?
Guest:Yeah, it was like, how did this guy, how do I get to be?
Guest:You were thinking about that?
Guest:Yeah, I was like, because that was the kind of, you know, that's what happens to an actor.
Guest:Like, you're going, you're trying to build a backstory.
Guest:Like, okay, so maybe my name is actually like, you know, Subramanian.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I've decided to just take a Jewish name, a moniker.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:to just make it easier for everyone.
Guest:Because I'm wearing a badge that says Dr. Schulman and now I've got to like stand there in a movie with a badge on my thing that says Dr. Schulman and for me as an actor, I was like method about it.
Guest:I'm like working with De Niro, you know?
Guest:So I'm just like, I got to know this shit.
Guest:And what'd you come up with?
Guest:That's what I kind of came up with.
Guest:He just changed his Indian name to like some Western name so that people wouldn't mispronounce it.
Marc:I hope De Niro appreciated the work he put in.
Guest:I don't think De Niro even thought of it.
Guest:He just didn't even know what my character's name was.
Guest:And it was funny because I knew all my lines.
Guest:Because I was super like, oh my God, I'm working with De Niro.
Guest:And it was the first day of shooting.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And De Niro, I didn't, and I get on the set when there's, you know, legend.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Robert De Niro.
Guest:And I start doing the scene with him.
Guest:Working with him, yeah.
Guest:And he doesn't know his lines.
Guest:He's like, wait, what's happening?
Guest:Wait, what's the line?
Guest:And people, and I was like, holy shit, Robert De Niro doesn't know his lines.
Guest:What?
Guest:And then I was going to judge him.
Guest:And then I was like, who am I to judge?
Guest:He doesn't need to know his lines.
Guest:I'm the one that people are looking at to make sure that I don't screw this up.
Guest:De Niro, it doesn't matter.
Marc:Do you think that's just the way he worked?
Marc:Because it's weird when you do things, and as you know from doing movies now, a lot of times you go scene for scene.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I just think he was kind of like, yeah, and he was brilliant.
Marc:Yeah, well, he's got the character in place.
Guest:Yeah, he had the character.
Guest:He knew what he was doing.
Guest:He just was going up, you know, so he was asking.
Guest:But I was like kind of, you know, this young actor who was just like, that's terrible.
Guest:I was like, Nero doesn't know his life.
Guest:I'm not going to tell anyone.
Marc:I'm so disappointed in him.
Marc:Right?
Marc:That kind of thing.
Marc:The whole illusion is shattered.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Until I realized it didn't matter.
Guest:It didn't matter what he was doing.
Guest:What mattered was what I was doing because that's who people were actually looking at.
Marc:But there's a lot of funny parts in that movie.
Marc:There's a couple of scenes in that movie that just kill me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, so yeah.
Guest:It was a great movie.
Guest:I loved it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I loved working with those guys.
Marc:Oh, Electronic Store Salesman, Kashuk, Singh, Engineering Sam, Ganesh.
Marc:There you go.
Marc:Dr. Mitra, Dr. Faraj, Mr. Aziz, Satish, Hassan.
Guest:What happened after a while was that I would audition for either terrorists or doctors.
Guest:So it was almost like the way Hollywood saw brown people was we either kill people or we save them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, it's one or the other, you know?
Marc:But was there... Did you find yourself insulted after a certain point?
Guest:You know what happened was, after 9-11, things sort of changed in terms of, like, my relationship to...
Guest:certain roles that I was getting offered because then suddenly I was getting offered roles that I was like oh this this is because in the early part of like coming to New York I was I would go in and like for a snake charmer or whatever right and it was like insulting from a kind of
Guest:stereotypical sort of like nobody old time yeah like like they were like you're a snake charmer and by the way do you actually know how to snake charm yeah i get questions like that right and i was like i don't know i'm indian maybe probably i probably do because i just wanted the job you know i was like i i'm sure i can do it yeah i can do it
Guest:But then after 9-11, what happened was that there was roles where I would get called for, like, Muslim parts that would genuinely sort of... I was like, I can't put this in the world.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like, it was sort of like... Like what?
Guest:Just like, you know, there would be... I remember there was a movie...
Guest:Actually, there was a movie called Hidalgo that I got sent by my agent.
Guest:And it was about, Viggo Mortensen ended up being in that film.
Guest:It was a movie, Disney actually put it out.
Guest:I remember.
Guest:And there was a line in that film, and this was right in 2003 when we had just invaded Iraq.
Guest:And there was a line in the movie where Viggo Mortensen's character says, his girlfriend says to him,
Guest:He's about to go to, it was set in like the 1800s when he goes and runs this horse race in the Arabian desert against all these Bedouin, you know, and she says to him, go kick some Arabian ass cowboy.
Guest:And I was like, I can't be in a movie that has that line in it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Like not today, not in the world that we are in, not on the, on sort of as US Marines are invading Baghdad, you know, like I can't be in a movie that says go kick some Arabian ass cowboy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so I didn't even go in for the audition.
Guest:And so then that's when things sort of changed and there was like a political element to the roles that I was being offered and I was having a political or sociological kind of reaction in terms of like somehow representing something in a way that, oh, like me being in this is saying something in the world that I don't want to say, you know?
Guest:So there was a change, yeah.
Guest:And did that happen more than once?
Guest:Yeah, it happened all the time.
Guest:There were scripts I got where it would literally be Muslims praying and the World Trade Center blowing up in the background.
Guest:It was literally like, can you be this guy praying and going up and down on your knees and then we'll have a montage of the World Trade Center exploding.
Guest:And I was like, are you fucking kidding me?
Guest:Like, I can't do that.
Guest:Like, what do you mean?
Guest:Like, no, I'm not going to do that.
Guest:It was just like, you know, it was crazy to me.
Guest:But I got a lot of that stuff.
Guest:I mean, every brown actor did at that time.
Guest:You know, it was kind of one of those things where suddenly we were getting these scripts where it was like...
Guest:We were now just the sort of brown, dark-faced, bearded terrorist.
Marc:I think it's always been that way and it continues to be that way.
Marc:Until your personality transcends, culturally transcends the color of your skin or your ethnicity.
Marc:The opportunities are still limited until someone can go like, oh, that's us.
Marc:Until that happens.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Until you have credibility as a personality.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You're just, you know, where does DeBron guy fit in?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:What's our quota?
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the thing is, it's still one of those things where for a long time, I think, you know, there were no roles.
Guest:I mean, now it's different.
Guest:Like, I think there's...
Guest:There's much more roles out there on television and stuff where you see like, you know, in South Asian or Middle Eastern actors.
Marc:I think the social fabric has changed.
Marc:And I don't know.
Marc:I don't know necessarily if I'm going to assess it intellectually is because there's been any great.
Marc:Well, obviously, there's been progress, but I just think the cultural fabric has become very different.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not an unusual thing anymore.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Well, I think two things.
Guest:I think still something happens, even today, which is that what happens is that brown actors either play into a stereotype that exists where you have shows like Outsourced or whatever on NBC.
Guest:Right.
Guest:or their cultural ethnicity is completely ignored, and they end up essentially playing white people who just happen to be brown, because it's almost like there's a cultural, a token sort of brownness necessary, or whatever.
Guest:Balance it out.
Guest:Yeah, so you just have a brown guy playing a guy named Bob, which is sort of equally absurd.
Guest:And some people will be like, oh, well, that's...
Guest:Great.
Marc:It's like a hackneyed attempt at assimilation.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That, you know, it's just sort of like, it's just a general American.
Marc:We don't need to change any of the lines.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Guest:And I used to go in for roles like that all the time, where it was literally like, there'd be like...
Guest:it'd be written as like a fat Jewish guy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And they would be like, but then we'll see like Indian guys.
Guest:And I'm like, okay, but you can't just keep him as a fat Jewish guy.
Guest:Like you can't like have his persona and the way he talks and the way, you know what I mean?
Guest:Or like a black guy, you know, or whatever, or Hispanic.
Guest:You gotta, and they wouldn't care.
Guest:They would just be like, it doesn't matter.
Guest:It's just, so, you know, you'd end up saying like Shlemiel with an Indian accent, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But, you know, sort of that kind of thing where I found that I would go into these auditions and whatever.
Guest:And it was just, you know, you'd just be like, oh, this is nobody has thought this through.
Guest:And there's not he's not really an Indian or South Asian.
Guest:It doesn't really represent my experience of like being an Indian.
Guest:a brown guy in America.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He's just... He's just a guy.
Guest:He's just a guy.
Guest:And I think a lot of times people will say, well, that's progress.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it is in a way.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But it's also not taking into account that we are... There are different ethnicities.
Marc:Well, it's progress in terms of employment.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But not progress in terms of cultural acceptance.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when you got the Daily Show opportunity... Yeah.
Marc:And how did you find that?
Marc:Was that just an audition?
Guest:It was an audition.
Guest:It was literally, you know, I had been doing, like I said, I was doing theater.
Marc:You were on The Sopranos.
Guest:I was on The Sopranos.
Guest:A lot of TV.
Guest:I played a doctor on Sopranos.
Guest:And, yeah, I was doing a lot of that kind of stuff.
Guest:And then I get this call to audition for The Daily Show.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:and uh you know for me initially i turned it down yeah because i was like oh this is going to be some fucking bullshit thing where they want me to come in and sit on a magic carpet and do a sketch because i because i had done that kind of stuff like for letterman and you know i went in and was the voice of saddam hussein on some sketch they were doing and i thought it was going to be that right and then
Guest:Then they were like, no, no, no, they're looking for like a correspondent, like a Middle East.
Guest:And the thing is, it was just a one-off gig when I started.
Guest:I guess what happened was they'd written this piece.
Guest:It was during the Hezbollah-Israel war in 2006.
Guest:And they'd written this piece that was from the perspective of a Middle East correspondent.
Marc:So it was a daily casting.
Marc:It wasn't...
Guest:like they just they had the thing they needed somebody they needed someone they were like we don't have this guy so we'll just bring in a bunch of middle eastern looking actors and have them read and we'll give them you know so when i came in i auditioned and uh you know i just was like look i don't know how to do i mean i watched the daily show i was a fan and i loved john and whatever and came in met with john and i was like i'm just gonna do like my best stephen colbert impression yeah see if i can book this thing
Guest:and uh so that's what i did and then john turned to me and he was like congratulations welcome to the show you're on tonight yeah and and i was like wow and then he was he had me on the show that night which was really weird because nobody in my life knew i didn't have time to tell him because we i auditioned at three we rehearsed at four and they tape at six right so there was that was it there's no time to tell anyone and so
Guest:at 11 o'clock that night people were like calling me up like were you just on the daily show like what the fuck like you know yeah and uh but the great thing was that john uh just said i want i want to have you back you know and let's let's just i like you like you know and let's just keep having you back on the show so he just kept calling right and they'd be like you want to do another thing i'm like yeah great and i just keep going back in doing one-offs right for like the next four or five months and
Guest:And that was kind of my audition period.
Guest:That was sort of like my trial by, you know, whatever.
Guest:And then after like a few months, then they called and were like, John wants to see you.
Guest:And so I went into the office and there was him and a couple of producers.
Guest:And they were like, we'd like to offer you a contract as a full-time correspondent.
Guest:And so then that's when I really started on the show.
Marc:And then did you start producing pieces?
Yeah.
Guest:Well, not producing them, but they didn't send me out in the field for a long time because that was sort of another area.
Guest:They just had me in the studio.
Guest:So they'd write the chat, we'd go in and just basically do the chat.
Guest:And then after a year or so, I started getting out in the field and sort of, and that's really where the correspondents have the most fun because we get to kind of improvise.
Guest:You get to improvise, yeah.
Guest:You get to pitch in ideas for jokes and whatever.
Marc:You get to keep a straight face.
Guest:Yeah, you know, as people kind of implode in front of you.
Guest:And it's just, you know, I remember Samantha Bee said to me actually when I first started on the show, she was like,
Guest:Like no one teaches you how to do this job.
Guest:Like you're only going to learn how to do this job at this job.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because nobody else does it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so it really was like my first few pieces were very clunky and I didn't know what I was doing and I was just kind of, I thought I was doing a real interview, you know.
Marc:I think it's probably the way to approach it, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, then you realize that like, oh, we, you know, like I have a lot more control in this situation than I think I do, which is I can stop and start and go at my own.
Guest:And, you know, you start to realize.
Guest:Cut it up.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you start to also realize.
Guest:how to ask people questions that are going to, you know, elicit responses that you want them to, you know, because they do a pre-interview and they will ask people, you know, look, what are your thoughts on this?
Guest:And people have very strong opinions.
Marc:Well, it's amazing that even knowing the show that people will go in,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I think we also talk to people who no one else is talking to sometimes.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And they kind of want to get their voice heard.
Guest:Who was that guy you sunk?
Guest:The guy in North Carolina?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, the Yelton.
Guest:You know we can hear you.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:Well, that was a classic example of something where...
Guest:We went in, had no idea it was going to go that way.
Guest:And suddenly he starts just saying all this stuff.
Guest:And I'd now done enough pieces on the show and felt like I was new enough to just say, okay, what I need to do right now.
Guest:is just stay out of the way and let him drive this bus off the cliff.
Guest:Because if I now start like trying to goad him, he's going to get self-conscious and he's going to be like, oh yeah, I shouldn't say that.
Guest:So I just literally sat back and just let him go.
Guest:And man, was that, that was something else.
Guest:It was, you know, it was one of the, it's, and those are those like, you know, what I like to call the fuck the chicken moment, which is that like when the guy says, I fucked the chicken.
Guest:And you're just like, that's it, we got it.
Guest:We can pack up.
Guest:We can go home.
Guest:And so that's the moment when he said all that stuff.
Guest:I was like, oh, yeah, he's fucking the chicken right now.
Guest:Totally fucking the chicken.
Marc:You got to stop yourself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the thing is, I never have had a situation where I've almost started laughing because you're so...
Guest:Sometimes you're just so amazed.
Guest:For me, I sometimes sit there and I'm just like, wow, this person is really saying this.
Guest:Or you're just so surprised that they just said what they said.
Guest:Like one guy when he said, poor people need to stop being poor.
Guest:And that was his kind of conclusion to the health.
Guest:That was his sort of how he was going to solve the health care problem.
Guest:Poor people will stop being poor.
Guest:And...
Guest:But the minute he said that, I know, like, oh, yeah, that's our soundbite.
Guest:We got it.
Guest:And then, of course, he was like, well, maybe that came out wrong.
Guest:It came out.
Guest:It's out.
Guest:It came out.
Guest:It came out.
Guest:You know?
Guest:and people will say you know when you talk to people eventually they will they will start to like yeah talk and reveal themselves you know this yeah you know you do that too yeah but it's kind of that's what happens you know you want to get them to a place where they start revealing themselves you just gotta keep letting them talk
Guest:yeah right and that's what Stephen Colbert said that to me once he said when I first was at the Daily Show they were like oh we're going to send you out in the field and I think they were nervous because they were like you clearly have never done this before so they sent me to meet Stephen Colbert and they were like he's going to give you some pointers and one of the things he said to me was
Guest:uh don't be afraid of the silence just sit with the silence and let it be your friend because they will fill the space you know and they will start saying things you know that the to fill that space yeah and uh and that's what you want yeah and then he said um when you put a camera in someone's face they get a lobotomy
Guest:yeah and that was a brilliant sort of piece of advice because it's it's incredibly true you know people want to they they just are excited to like be there and say what they want to say that they're passionate about you know yeah um like like and and they and they will just you know like i had a woman this woman who was protesting a
Guest:mosque being built down in Murfreesboro Tennessee and she came into the interview with all these statistics and she got off the internet and whatever and she said one in five Muslims are terrorists that was her statistic that she and I was like well where'd you get that and she was like off the internet it's like you know and she was very like she had not done then she was like said to me like you do the math yeah and so I did and then that was like so that means the 700 million terrorists in the world
Guest:the fuck has taken us so long you know it was that kind of and she hadn't really thought it through right and then when presented with that she realized like how absurd that was but that's what happens people come in and they're so excited in some cases to say what it is they want to say you know like I've been holding all this racism inside of me for so long I really need to get it out and somebody's finally asking me to say you know what I think about these fucking assholes you know and that's what happens what did she say when you gave her the math
Guest:I think she just sort of was like, well, you know, I don't think we ever used it in the piece because I think she kind of deflected it and went somewhere else, which is what usually happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How long have you been on the show now?
Guest:Seven and a half years.
Marc:That's your primary gig?
Guest:It has been.
Guest:Actually, I'm on a leave of absence right now because I'm doing this HBO series.
Guest:So I actually have taken some time off from The Daily Show.
Guest:Which series?
Guest:So I'm doing a show called The Brink with Jack Black and Tim Robbins.
Guest:It's going to be coming out next year on HBO.
Guest:Comedy?
Guest:It's a comedy.
Guest:It's a half hour comedy that I'm also writing for, which is a whole new experience.
Guest:What's the angle?
Guest:The angle is that the... It's called the brink because the world is on the brink of Armageddon every season.
Guest:And it's sort of done in real time, like 24.
Guest:But you're following it through three departments of US government.
Guest:So you're following it through the State Department, the Foreign Service, and the military.
Guest:And there's three intersecting stories happening simultaneously.
Guest:And then they all sort of come together at some point.
Guest:And it all... Basically, there's an escalation of...
Guest:of the world basically on the brink of world war four you know it's interesting yeah so it's and it's a comedy who created that it was created by uh the writer roberto benabib is the showrunner who was uh who worked on weeds for many years and uh jay roach is executive producing it and you're in this new movie with uh john
Guest:ham yes john ham called million dollar arm which is out right now you got a nice part in that i do yeah you know i mean it's it's uh i play his business partner uh it's based on a true story and so that was fun to play nice guy john yeah yeah great guy like you know totally uh it's funny because i i'm so not a sports guy yeah and he is such a baseball fan and this is movies about baseball
Guest:So, like, we were down in... And I've never gone to, like, a professional baseball game.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I was down in Atlanta, and I went to see the Braves play the Giants for the first time in a real... I mean, I've watched baseball on TV.
Guest:I've just never been in an actual game.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so, like, John and I were shooting in the stadium of the Atlanta Braves, and he looked out at the empty baseball field, and he was, like, sort of nostalgically looked at me, and he said, Asif...
Guest:you remember your first baseball game?
Guest:And I was like, yeah, it was last week.
Guest:And he was like, what?
Guest:And I was like, yeah, saw the Braves play the Giants last week.
Guest:And he's like, that was your first baseball game?
Guest:And I was like, yeah.
Guest:And I think he was about to launch into sort of like, I can't believe, and then they were like, action!
Guest:And we had to go.
Marc:Oh, thank God.
Marc:He just undermined his whole beautiful moment.
Guest:I think he was just like horrified.
Guest:Well, great talking to you, man.
Guest:Hey, man, it was great to talk to you.
Marc:And good luck with the show.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:Was that a fun conversation or what?
Marc:I like that guy, Asif Manvi.
Marc:I like saying his name.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:Also, as usual, go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs.
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