Episode 496 - Rhys Darby
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck sticks?
Marc:What the fucking... What?
Marc:What happened?
Marc:What happened to my brain in the middle of that?
Marc:Wow.
Marc:My brain just crapped out.
Marc:The service dropped.
Marc:The call was dropped from my brain to my mouth.
Marc:Okay, I'm Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:I'm glad you're here.
Marc:Reese Darby from, you know him as the manager on the flight of the Conchords, is going to be talking to me today.
Marc:He's got a thing on the Netflix called Short Poppies, a series that he shot in New Zealand.
Marc:I'm going to talk to him a bit about New Zealand.
Marc:I don't know why I'm saying it like that.
Marc:It's not even an accent.
Marc:Just saying it like that.
Marc:I think it's sort of my brain's attempt at an accent.
Marc:And then once again, my brain bailing on that.
Marc:My provider dropped the call.
Marc:Between brain and mouth.
Marc:Yeah, so Reese Darby in a few.
Marc:Oh, my God, man.
Marc:I am at the end of something.
Marc:I had this dream that all my favorite jackets were lost, and I kind of knew where they were, but they were gone.
Marc:I don't know what that means.
Marc:Maybe it doesn't mean anything.
Marc:I don't know what you guys have invested in dreams.
Marc:It means I don't have any armor left, or it means that I'm cold, or it means that maybe I need new jackets.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's not even that great a dream, but I just remember it.
Marc:I remember that dream.
Marc:I'm having a hard time breathing because I ate like a pig about an hour ago.
Marc:My friend Ashley, it's her birthday.
Marc:She just told me it was her birthday.
Marc:She works for me a bit.
Marc:And just sprung it on me.
Marc:It's my birthday today.
Marc:All right, well, so even though in my mind I was like, I'm going to go home, I'm going to make a smoothie, I'm going to start treating myself right.
Marc:I'm like, there's only one thing to do.
Marc:Let's go to Oinkster, get pastrami sandwiches, horchata shakes, and fries.
Marc:Let's do that.
Marc:So that's what I did after being in Phoenix all weekend.
Marc:My brother's wife's triplets bar mitzvah.
Marc:Bat mitzvah.
Marc:I don't know what you call it.
Marc:A triple header.
Marc:I do not know why my hands and feet are tingling all the time.
Marc:It's not diabetes.
Marc:I don't know what it is.
Marc:It's not good.
Marc:I don't know if it's stress.
Marc:Maybe it goes along with the fact that I can't breathe sometimes.
Marc:Why am I so stressed out?
Marc:Why I've been eating like that?
Marc:Well, because my show premiered last week.
Marc:Perhaps that's it.
Marc:Because...
Marc:Maybe, you know, when you try to be a better person and you're trying not to lose your shit and you're trying not to get angry, that energy's got to go somewhere.
Marc:Apparently, it wants to blow my hands and feet off and wants me to eat disgusting things because it's so fucking good.
Marc:I went to In-N-Out Burger the other day, and these aren't paid plugs.
Marc:This is just what I did.
Marc:I'm sharing it up because, like, I don't necessarily think In-N-Out's a good idea.
Marc:even if they do have weird referrals to Bible quotations on their wrappers.
Marc:See, that's how it would work with me if I was a Christian.
Marc:If it's a Christian operation, then you should eat the In-N-Out Burger, go to the Bible verse, and then ask for forgiveness from yourself and from Jesus for shoving that shit into your face.
Marc:Look, everything is fine.
Marc:OK, the show premiered last week.
Marc:And oh, yeah, the day the show, the day the show premiered, I have seen knowing that I do not drink or do drugs said, well, let's send Mark a crate of ice cream.
Marc:So that came in the mail.
Marc:So that's where that started.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:It's really been going on a bit.
Marc:Like six pints of Ben and Jerry's with some Ghirardelli caramel and chocolate sauce and some sundae cups.
Marc:So believe it or not, that's what I did.
Marc:I watched my premiere of my show alone eating a sundae that I made by myself.
Marc:I'm not feeling sorry for myself.
Marc:I can't think of a better way to watch it.
Marc:And I hadn't seen it since we did the edit.
Marc:And I got to say, I'm pretty happy with it.
Marc:And I got to say that the feedback that I've gotten about the first show was great.
Marc:Do you want some backstory on the premiere of Marin season two?
Marc:Complete coincidence that Sarah Silverman appeared on my show's premiere and Louis CK's premiere.
Marc:Bizarre coincidence.
Marc:There's no way to plan that stuff, but it did happen.
Marc:What do you want to know?
Marc:You want some backstory on the episode?
Marc:The episode, if you haven't watched it, I appear on The Talking Dead.
Marc:A lot of people are going to you and Chris Hardwick really not get along.
Marc:Me and Chris Hardwick get along fine.
Marc:I don't know if you, last week I also did his show Midnight.
Marc:and I quite like the tension between me and Chris Hardwick on television.
Marc:It was a little more intense on my show, but the comfortable sort of frenemy bit that we did on Midnight is about where it hovers.
Marc:I'm okay with him most of the time.
Marc:I did Conan.
Marc:All I wanted to do was meet Sharon Stone.
Marc:I don't really get excited about celebrities, and I had Conan walk me in
Marc:Because she was on the show with me.
Marc:And I don't know what I was expecting from her.
Marc:Maybe an acknowledgement.
Marc:Maybe something.
Marc:Maybe some connection.
Marc:I walk into her dressing room with Conan.
Marc:She's got a few people there.
Marc:She just goes crazy to see Conan.
Marc:Understandable.
Marc:It's his show.
Marc:He goes, this is Marc Maron.
Marc:She looks at me and she goes, oh, okay.
Marc:Okay, Marc.
Marc:Hi, how are you?
Marc:Just flattened out.
Marc:All I wanted was a little juice, just a little bit of something, a little bit of something that says that Sharon Stone might, you know, think I'm attractive or engaging or someone she might want to talk to.
Marc:Maybe I just wanted to tap into her crazy for a few minutes.
Marc:Just use her as a battery.
Marc:How about a little charm for a little Marky?
Marc:No, nothing.
Marc:It was almost as if it was like I'd been dismissed.
Marc:So I stood there while her and Conan kept talking for about four seconds and realized I'm not even supposed to be here right now.
Marc:I just don't have it, man.
Marc:I don't have it for everybody.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Sharon Stone, nothing.
Marc:She gave me nothing.
Marc:It really didn't, nothing.
Marc:Got nothing.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:It was good to see her.
Marc:I'm a big fan of hers, despite whatever she thinks of me.
Marc:So some backstory on the Talking Dead episode of Marin.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Do you want real dirt?
Marc:All right.
Marc:Let's see.
Marc:What is there?
Marc:We did shoot it on the Talking Dead set.
Marc:You would think that because AMC and IFC are in the same family of networks, it would have been easy just to go over there and say, hey, you don't mind if we shoot some stuff here?
Marc:Not so easy, but it worked out because it looked great.
Marc:I was very happy with that.
Marc:Michael Ian Black, how fun was that?
Marc:I got two guys who I have public...
Marc:publicly tense relationships beating up on me.
Marc:I will be honest with you.
Marc:When I watched the edit after we'd shot that show and I watched the first edit and I realized that what we had for coverage and everything else is that I was uncomfortable with how much of a fucking beating I took from those two guys.
Marc:I got nothing in.
Marc:I literally had my ass handed to me in the premiere episode of my show.
Marc:I was okay with it because I thought it was funny, but I was a little uncomfortable for me while watching that show.
Marc:It's weird when people ask me, are you and Chris really okay?
Marc:Yeah, we're okay until I make something weird.
Marc:Are you and Michael okay?
Marc:Yeah, kind of until I make something weird.
Marc:So it's kind of on me, but it couldn't have worked out better.
Marc:What other trivia?
Marc:Yes, my manager is actually a British woman.
Marc:with blonde hair, who was not thrilled at the way she was portrayed.
Marc:But I'm finding, as life goes on, that anybody you base a character on will be not thrilled with how they are represented.
Marc:I am learning that.
Marc:It's a tough lesson, but I'm learning it.
Marc:If you did not see the premiere episode of my season two, I believe it's available.
Marc:Is there IFC on demand?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm sure they're running it.
Marc:If you have not seen any of them, you can see the first season of Marin on Netflix.
Marc:And it is on every Thursday night for the next many Thursdays on IFC at 10 Eastern and Pacific and nine otherwise.
Marc:Watch it.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:I'm very proud of the show.
Marc:I think it's funny.
Marc:Also, my friends, let's go to my schedule, shall we?
Marc:I'm going to be in Nashville at Zaney's this Friday.
Marc:Friday the 16th at 7 o'clock.
Marc:I'm doing a show at Zaney's in Nashville.
Marc:Albuquerque, New Mexico, my hometown.
Marc:It looks like that show's selling pretty well.
Marc:I'll be at the National Hispanic Cultural Center.
Marc:On May 31st, that's a Saturday.
Marc:It's a benefit for the Endorphin Power Company.
Marc:Saturday, June 14th, I'll be at the 26th annual, first annual Comedy Festival in Chicago, Illinois.
Marc:And June 26th through 28th at the Comedy Attic in Bloomington, Indiana.
Marc:Tickets are on sale for all these shows.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:All right, that's my gigs.
Marc:All right, those are my gigs.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:Why is my phone ringing?
Marc:Oh, shit.
Marc:I told John Favreau to call me.
Marc:I left a message for him because I saw his new movie, Chef.
Marc:Maybe that's him.
Marc:John Favreau, hello.
Marc:How you doing, man?
Marc:Hey, listen.
Marc:I'll be honest with you.
Marc:Can I be honest with you?
Guest:Please.
Marc:I watched a movie last night.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:And I watched the whole thing.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:And I enjoyed it.
Marc:Oh, good.
Marc:What a sweet movie.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Do you watch it and go, I made a sweet movie?
No.
Guest:Yeah, well, you know, I like food like you, and I like chef culture, and, you know, I just wanted to do something that represented that culture and do something that came from the heart, and I'm really, really proud of this one.
Marc:I think you did.
Marc:I mean, you know, I think it must be tricky to shoot food.
Marc:I mean, you know, food is great to look at, but I think you really framed it properly.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:You made it beautiful.
Guest:It's cheap, you know, compared to... If you show a really well...
Guest:a well-caramelized pork belly.
Guest:It's as exciting in many ways as a big $10 million CGI sequence.
Marc:It doesn't cost as much as Iron Man.
Marc:Is that what you're talking about?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:But that scene where you get angry and you lose your shit and your recourse is to just go cook for no one.
Marc:That was a very impressive, delicious fit of rage.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:I was trying to channel one of your intros.
Marc:It actually is a similar thing.
Marc:But how good of a cook are you?
Marc:I mean, are you solid?
Guest:I'm pretty solid now.
Guest:You know, I definitely learned.
Guest:Roy Choi, who's a chef that started the whole food truck movement out here with the Kogi truck, he trained me and he sent me off to culinary school.
Guest:And then he let me work in his kitchens.
Guest:And
Guest:And by the end, I was working the line.
Guest:I was doing full shifts as a line cook.
Marc:That's an intense gig, man.
Marc:I couldn't hack the line.
Marc:I was a short order cook in college, and then I went and worked at a regular restaurant on the line, and I didn't have chops.
Marc:And I never felt so ashamed and like such a fuck up in my life.
Guest:It is quite an intense set of circumstances.
Guest:I had bartended, but that's different.
Guest:But, you know, I think when you're older, you embrace these things more.
Guest:I don't think I could have done it younger.
Marc:But, I mean, working on the line, I mean, it's got to work in sync.
Marc:It's like a band.
Marc:And if you're the guy at the frying station and you botch a thing of onion rings, you know, you're going to hold up everybody.
Guest:No, everybody.
Guest:And they're not.
Guest:And unlike a band, they could yell, fuck you in your face, right?
Marc:That's right.
Marc:And then you go, fuck you.
Marc:And then the manager goes, all right, take a walk.
Marc:Let's take a walk.
Marc:Yeah, the restaurant, I've only known crazy chefs, and I think you handled the emotions of it very well.
Marc:Now, let me ask you, so you got Dustin Hoffman in there as a restaurant owner.
Marc:I mean, obviously, everyone knows that your buddy's with Robert Downey, and that explains how he's in there.
Marc:And all of a sudden, Dustin Hoffman walks out, and of course, I'm like, holy shit, that's Dustin Hoffman right there.
Marc:I imagine you must have said that the first time you did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did.
Guest:You know, what really got me is he read the script and he was like, he starts, I thought he was going to talk about food or about my movies, and he starts talking about Kramer versus Kramer.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:I'm like, oh, my God, yeah, because Kramer versus, I mean, the core story of this film is it's about a dude who's divorced.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Who's not given any attention to his family or balanced his life in any way, and he's divorced.
Guest:He's got a 10-year-old boy.
Guest:And then he has to spend time with the boy and reconnect with him.
Guest:And that was the whole... That was the whole through line of Kramer vs. Kramer.
Guest:I went back and watched that movie again.
Guest:I rewrote my film.
Marc:You rewrote it?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did a rewrite.
Guest:I did... You know, you do a...
Guest:He'll do like a polish on different relationships or different characters.
Guest:That really made me examine the father-son relationship with greater detail.
Marc:What in Kramer vs. Kramer triggered the re-exam?
Marc:I mean, outside the whole movie, what did you think you did not get right?
Guest:I liked the subtlety.
Guest:Remember, the 70s, a lot different than now as far as the way studios and script notes get in.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:It was a very subtle relationship.
Guest:He wasn't a terrible dad in it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:There's just moments that are real.
Guest:And the moments that are uncomfortable are really uncomfortable.
Guest:And the resolution is really sweet and not overstated.
Guest:He can't cook for the kid in the beginning and is cooking in it, too.
Guest:He can't cook for the kid.
Guest:He has shells in the French toast.
Guest:There's a whole run in with the kid eating the ice cream in the middle.
Guest:And then at the end, the way they show resolution is they cook breakfast together and read the paper.
Yeah.
Guest:And to me, that's like in Big Night, you know, that was like what an independent film has to do now, what a studio film used to do then.
Guest:And it was, I just let that inform the relationship because I thought it was so moving when I had seen it originally.
Marc:I think that's interesting what you say, that the nature of independent film at a different time, maybe even 10 years ago, was an art film that could not service the larger audience anymore.
Marc:like a larger movie like there I would say that the assumption about independent film at another time was that you wouldn't get a happy ending you'd be challenged right it may be a little rough around the edges and that was the nature of it but I think what you're saying is interesting in that you know this is a sweet movie that that that is emotionally pleasing that that takes you on a journey that doesn't punch you in the face or make you wonder why you're alive necessarily
Guest:No, but it also shows things without overstating them and leaving some ambiguity to certain relationships.
Guest:But that used to be what studio movies were.
Guest:In the 70s, that was a studio movie.
Marc:Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Guest:20 years ago, that was indie.
Guest:Now it's a cable show.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Now it's not even indie anymore.
Guest:So it's like this is a bit of a dinosaur.
Guest:But it's so nice to go to a theater, though, and share that experience with people.
Guest:You don't get that.
Guest:You get great television.
Right.
Guest:But unless you're on Twitter, you're not sharing any sort of common experience.
Marc:Well, maybe one other person, but certainly not a bunch of strangers.
Marc:I mean, you can do that at home, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Marc:Have a busload of strangers come over and watch a movie with you.
Marc:But you had a great cast.
Marc:I mean, Scarlett Johansson's in it, Robert Downey Jr., who was great.
Marc:I like that you use these guys for five minutes.
Marc:It's refreshing to have tight scenes with guys that have an amazing amount of intensity and talent.
Marc:Yeah, thank you.
Marc:It's a treat, man.
Guest:It's sort of like— It's like cooking, you know?
Guest:It's like you don't want to use too much.
Guest:It's used strong flavors delicately.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was just—and everybody—it's all on story, too.
Guest:And it's just—it was just so—I mean, hopefully you got some of the fun that we had making it as you watch it, but it really was—
Guest:It's like going off and just doing, like, a surprise acoustic set at a small club.
Guest:You know, that's what it felt like.
Marc:I like that analogy.
Marc:So how long did it take you to make this?
Marc:I know when we talked here in the garage the first time, I think you had mentioned that you were working on it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But, I mean, this is a passion project, I guess you would call it.
Marc:But, I mean, how long did it really take for it to come together?
Guest:I wrote it in January, I think.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Pretty quickly, because I haven't written something this fast since, like, Swingers.
Guest:Because it was...
Guest:It's about things in my life that I can relate to.
Guest:It's about critics.
Guest:It's about the creative process.
Guest:It's about family.
Guest:Then I rewrote it after I started working with Roy, and we shot it in like a month.
Guest:It took about a month to shoot.
Guest:So it was essentially the same schedule as Swingers was.
Marc:deals with that generational thing about about twitter about social networking and about like the stubbornness of a creative person which i i had when you know when i started the podcast it's like yeah i'm not gonna i'm not really that guy and the way you enter that world is that that whole the the whole meltdown on twitter that leads to the to the other meltdown i mean i relate to that i do that once or twice a week not the public everybody does i mean that's our generation yeah
Guest:My kids won't have that problem.
Guest:They have a healthy respect, as does the kid in the movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I also think it offers, you know, there's the dark side, which we show first.
Guest:But really, the thing that allows a guy to open a food truck, the thing that allows you to do your podcast, it's all the same thing.
Guest:It's the ability to narrow cast to a specific audience that you could passionately and sincerely speak to.
Guest:You don't require late night talk show ratings.
Guest:People can find your thing when they do.
Guest:I listen to it all the time.
Guest:And it's because it's a leisurely experience where you seek out the things that you want.
Guest:and you're not forced to get the entire audience at the same time.
Guest:And that's a result of social media.
Guest:So the technology, which is his undoing, is his salvation as well.
Marc:And also, like you mentioned before, I think it's great that food, as beautiful as it is and how relatable that is, that you can really confront the struggle of a creative person.
Marc:I mean, the way that you interacted with the food critic in the restaurant...
Marc:I mean, who wouldn't want to do that in any creative position?
Marc:Like, I think it's a very accessible portal into the creative personality.
Marc:And I know it's nice because I really felt that you were, maybe I'm wrong, but I mean, you're a very sweet guy and I think you brought a lot of yourself to this thing because you could have tipped it into asshole land.
Marc:I mean, I don't think it was probably necessarily a difficult balance for you as an actor, as a person, but you know, it must have been dicey to not,
Marc:push the self-pity or the anger into a non-sympathetic place.
Guest:I don't think you would have... Well, you know what they say, there's a little asshole in everyone.
Marc:I have a lot.
Marc:I have a lot.
Marc:I have more than most people.
Marc:I was gifted with a little more than most people.
Guest:But what's so fun, though, is when you lose it, it usually is a tell.
Guest:First guy raises his voice loses the argument, and especially in the case of this movie, when you have to scream in somebody's face, you're not getting to me.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:It's just so absurd.
Guest:You're usually more mad at yourself.
Marc:Paralyzing insecurity.
Guest:That's what it is.
Guest:And with comics and with filmmakers and with chefs, I find a common through line is,
Guest:They are beyond reproach when it comes to getting notes or ideas or thoughts or having somebody else, especially management, shape their vision.
Marc:And the sad thing is, is you knew he was right.
Marc:I knew he was right.
Marc:I mean, that was the interesting thing about that part of the movie is when you were when you were blowing up is like I'm like, what is he going to cop to it?
Marc:And but you can't not in that moment because it's too emotional.
Guest:No, he doesn't realize it.
Guest:It's admitting that all these little terrible decisions that he's made over the course of his 47 years has added up to this malaise.
Guest:He doesn't understand why nothing's working, why he's not happy.
Guest:He has everything he thought he wanted.
Guest:And that's kind of the myth of our generation, of our age group, is you, how did I get here?
Guest:It's like the talking head song.
Marc:Sure, sure.
Marc:You know what I liked about the whole thing is that right from the beginning, the relationship between you and your ex-wife is pained and sweet.
Marc:There's not this...
Marc:tension, because that would add in another level of difficulty to the narrative that she's obviously supportive and wants the best for you.
Marc:And you don't really go into whatever that will happen between you two.
Marc:But there's a lot of love there.
Marc:And I think that's a nice way to approach that doesn't clutter up the story.
Guest:I think it's I think, you know, again, I tried to really show things in a real way and all the things that would have been the studio note to change, which was, you know, draw a finer point to that or make it clearer why they're not together or show them upset or break the relationship more.
Guest:I just avoided that's not what I've experienced I'm a kid from a divorce my folks got along really well and it makes it sadder in a way because you just don't understand why they're not together yeah it pulls at you and the kid was great I don't want to I don't want to give I don't want to not mention him what's his name MJ Anthony he was great 10 year old playing a 10 year old which is rare
Marc:Yeah, it was nice, man.
Marc:And you shot the cities beautifully.
Marc:You know, Austin.
Marc:You were in New Orleans.
Marc:You know, you were in Miami.
Guest:Blue Havana we'd spent some time in, too.
Marc:Yeah, it was great.
Marc:I really enjoyed it, and congratulations on it.
Marc:And it's open now, right?
Guest:Yeah, it's open in New York and L.A., and then it's going to be hit in other cities in the following weeks.
Guest:So thank you for your support.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And thanks for having me on again.
Guest:I love listening and honored to be on your show.
Marc:Yeah, and congratulations, man.
Marc:It's really a sweet movie.
Guest:Thank you, sir.
Marc:All right, take care.
Marc:Bye.
Marc:See, isn't that nice to have a friend of the show like Jon Favreau?
Marc:I think so.
Marc:Let's talk to this fella.
Marc:Have I talked to anyone from New Zealand before?
Marc:Let's talk to Reese Darby.
Marc:Rhys.
Guest:Is that a family name?
Guest:It's just, it's Welsh.
Guest:So it's the same as Rhys Witherspoon, but it's just different spelling.
Guest:Welsh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So it's, yeah.
Marc:Are you Welsh?
Guest:Well, there's a bit of background there.
Guest:Ancestry, you know, goes back.
Guest:Certainly there's certainly some relatives in Wales on one side of the family.
Guest:Have you visited him?
Guest:No.
Guest:I think...
Guest:My sister may have.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, I come from a big family.
Guest:Do you know your sister?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:How big a family?
Guest:They're so much older than me.
Guest:I'm like the baby.
Guest:Oh, okay.
Guest:I'm a nine-year gap between the next one, which is my brother.
Guest:Nine years?
Guest:Nine years.
Guest:Were you an accident?
Guest:Oh, it must have been.
Guest:It must have been.
Guest:I guess we're having it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the parents just split after me.
Guest:They did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They were done.
Guest:It was all over.
Guest:So it's a mess.
Guest:They kept trying though.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:I don't know what happened.
Marc:But you grew up in New Zealand.
Marc:That's where you're from.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See, I don't know.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So I, you know, like Welsh to New Zealand.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Here's the interesting thing.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I think it's going to be helpful to people in America.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:with the new series, Short Poppies, that we'll get a sort of window into New Zealand, because I don't fucking know.
Marc:I know they shot The Hobbit there.
Marc:It looks pretty.
Marc:I hear it's beautiful.
Marc:You got to go to New Zealand.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Oh, it's beautiful.
Marc:I don't fucking know how you live.
Marc:What's going on down there?
Guest:Well, you know, the Lord of the Rings, that really sort of put the wrong perception into people's minds.
Guest:Did it?
Guest:Well, because a lot of it is like that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, but we don't have, obviously, the monsters and, you know, the crazy wizards and things.
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Well, there's a few.
Guest:There's one wizard.
Guest:I'm not even sure if he's still working.
Guest:He's in Christchurch.
Guest:And actually, I think he's moved on now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But...
Guest:Yeah, I kind of – I guess people – because of The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, whatever, it sort of brought this kind of mysterious kind of mythological feel to the country.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So when you think of it, you do think of the beautiful mountains and gullies and the forests, and then you think, okay, so what –
Guest:How many people are there?
Guest:And everyone knows there's very few people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we've got four million.
Guest:For the whole country?
Guest:Yeah, that's the whole country.
Guest:But that's pretty new.
Guest:It only seemed like last year we had three million.
Guest:So the Lord of the Rings is working.
Guest:Yeah, word's getting out.
Guest:People are coming over.
Guest:But there's still plenty of room.
Guest:There's a lot of forest and beaches and things.
Guest:And it's two islands and a tiny...
Guest:Tiny island at the bottom, which you hardly notice, called Stewart Island.
Guest:Does anyone go there?
Guest:Yeah, there's a few people living there.
Guest:I'm going there for the first time this year.
Guest:To do what?
Guest:Just to check it out.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:What's it known for?
Guest:I think, well, down the bottom of the South Island, because there's two major islands, the North one and the South one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the South Island, the bottom of there were very well-known for the Bluff Oysters, which is our...
Guest:Shellfish.
Guest:Biggest oysters you get.
Guest:Best oysters on the planet.
Marc:These are indigenous oysters, not farmed?
Guest:No, these are indigenous, yeah.
Guest:And then you've got the island called Stewart Island.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Where do the mussels come from?
Guest:The green mussels.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All over, all over the coast of New Zealand, everywhere.
Guest:Just green mussels everywhere.
Guest:Big mussels everywhere, really big ones.
Guest:We've got great shellfish.
Guest:So, yeah, and I guess we all live in little, you know, it's like a modern world.
Guest:You know, it's like this.
Guest:We have microphones and things.
Guest:We live in houses.
Guest:Yeah, houses.
Guest:We have small, we have villages.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, yeah, it's kind of like a real world, but smaller.
Marc:but it is a weird perception that like yeah yeah i'm and i'm not you know necessarily i'm not stupid but i may be ignorant i mean i've been to australia yeah and then you go to australia and they're like you got to go to new zealand i'm like oh my god where's that yeah well how much different is that was it was it worth the extra three hours or whatever and you know it is because it is different um it's it's uh
Guest:Yeah, you know, the funny thing about New Zealand is we – it was only ever inhabited by birds, bird life for thousands of years.
Guest:Just birds.
Marc:No indigenous people?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, not at the beginning.
Guest:Just birds.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then – and no mammals.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like the only mammal was a fruit bat.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which is, you know, technically a bird.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So there's overrun with birds.
Guest:Yeah, it was overrun with birds.
Guest:And then man arrived.
Guest:In what form?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:uh bipedal okay human upright uh and there's some theories about you know the first indigenous people that maybe the moriori you might have heard of that sure sure yeah yeah um but then the maori yeah the maori i heard the maori you've heard of yeah there's the one before them moriori yeah yeah uh which is um you know there's a lot of theories about them were they their first whatever
Marc:Where did they come from?
Guest:On a boat?
Guest:Yeah, where did they come from?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:They ended up on Chatham Island, I believe, which is off the east coast of New Zealand.
Guest:They got chased there by the Maori.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:Maori people, very strong, very warrior.
Guest:Are they still in New Zealand, the Maoris?
Guest:Oh, yeah, of course.
Guest:They're our indigenous people.
Marc:Are they treated well there, or do they have a bad neighborhood, or how does it work?
Guest:No, it was...
Guest:Well, it's sort of, you know, there was some wars when the British arrived.
Guest:It was 25 years of war.
Marc:British liked to either train or get rid of brown people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Move them on.
Guest:Or, you know, when they saw these ones, I thought, hey, we've got our hands full here.
Guest:Look, they've got spears and all sorts.
Guest:They've got forts.
Guest:You know, the Maori, they invented trench warfare.
Guest:Did they?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So they fought, they had these trenches and they would, you know, hide inside them.
Marc:So that's where the British...
Marc:The British got it.
Guest:They stole it off the Maori.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The Maori gave us the trench warfare.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:You learned that today.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So anyway, they had to, sorry, they were used to, I guess before then would have been the Aborigine in Australia, which completely different type of people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very, very peaceful.
Guest:You know, they just sort of moved them on, didn't they?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Push them further out into the desert.
Guest:Wipe them out or move them on.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:We'll have all this, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, obviously, they probably thought, oh, we'll do the same over here.
Guest:There were some different brown ones.
Guest:These ones, look.
Guest:But these ones are called the Maori.
Guest:They had the facial tattoos.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Very scary.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so, it's like, all right.
Guest:Well, back it up.
Guest:Back it up.
Guest:We're going to have to return with some guns here.
Guest:And so, they actually tried some sort of bargaining.
Guest:We'll give you some muskets if you give us this beach.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Your country.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, essentially.
Guest:And so there was a bit of to-ing and fro-ing there.
Guest:And then 25 years of war, which ended in a stalemate, which they said the British didn't win.
Guest:So it ended up in a treaty where they divided.
Guest:But really, the British then sort of tricked them and ended up getting a lot of their land.
Guest:And it's called the Treaty of Waitangi.
Guest:And so that's where we're at.
Guest:And then now New Zealanders in general just account for everyone that lives there.
Guest:So it's gotten better.
Guest:Yeah, it's gotten better.
Guest:A little more integrated.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, totally.
Guest:And we've got a lot of Asian community now as well.
Guest:Asians are everywhere.
Marc:yeah yeah so that's no big surprise yeah yeah it's kind of amazing though you know especially like when you go like because like here i don't notice as much but if i go to canada like there are some areas where the huge populations of asian people and they change the uh it makes a lot more uh different food available yeah oh absolutely yeah good good sushi yeah exactly uh but yeah we've very much embraced the uh asian culture in new zealand and and and
Guest:Yeah, it's where we are on the globe.
Marc:Where did your family come from?
Marc:Because I know I hear stories about Australia and it was like people who were prisoners or pushed out.
Marc:I don't know what the real history is.
Marc:I speculate.
Marc:I like bits and pieces.
Marc:You're not a historian.
Marc:I'm not expecting you to give me the real story, but I like your version of it.
Marc:How did your people end up in New Zealand?
Guest:Well, see, New Zealand, they arrived basically people who wanted a different life.
Guest:Australia was the convicts, but the people who came from England to travel all the way, like six months in a boat to get to New Zealand, really to set up a new life, rural farmers and people who- Desperate people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, you couldn't be too desperate.
Guest:They had enough of Manchester and Liverpool and what was going on there.
Guest:There's got to be a better life than this.
Guest:So off they went, and they set up camp in this new world.
Guest:That must have been amazing.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, just think of it.
Marc:To show up in New Zealand before it was really populated.
Guest:Birds everywhere.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Beach.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Beautiful beaches.
Guest:And wizards.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And monsters.
Guest:A few cave dwelling trolls.
Guest:But really, you know, just the adventure that comes with that.
Marc:I can't imagine that.
Marc:As a modern person, can you imagine being on a boat for fucking six months that doesn't have like, you know, conveniences?
Guest:The closest thing, exactly.
Guest:The closest thing is like when you think of Star Trek and how they just are going through space, you know, forever and looking for new worlds.
Guest:I mean, that's exactly what we do here.
Guest:Back in those days.
Guest:And I'm really envious of that.
Guest:But of course, only because of the idea of it.
Guest:But the reality of it, of course, you know, they all got sick and half of them died and they didn't make it.
Guest:Throw them overboard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But they set up our world as it is now.
Marc:How many generations has your family been there?
Guest:Oh, it probably goes back three, maybe four generations, I guess.
Guest:Yeah, 1800s.
Guest:Yeah, New Zealand's a pretty young country.
Marc:So most of the cuisine there is like British influence?
Guest:Yeah, well, a lot of it is seafood.
Guest:We've kind of gone to our own thing.
Guest:Big on the seafood, you know, crayfish, fish, shellfish.
Marc:So fresh too, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Let's just talk about food.
Guest:You just reach out from your car as you're driving along the coast.
Guest:Put your hand in the water.
Guest:Yeah, put your hand out.
Guest:Scoop up.
Guest:You know, a small dolphin.
Guest:Whatever you want.
Guest:And just chuck it in the boot.
Guest:That's the trunk for you Americans.
Marc:And then go home and grill it.
Marc:Cook it however you want.
Guest:Go home and grill it.
Guest:No probs.
Guest:You know, that's one of our sayings.
Guest:No probs.
Guest:Barbecue.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, fucking.
Marc:It's amazing.
Guest:It's a bit of a paradise, you know, to be honest with you.
Guest:That's why people go there.
Guest:And it's a long way away.
Guest:It's one of those places where you couldn't get any further.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, next stop is Antarctica.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it's quiet though, right?
Guest:It's quiet.
Marc:Like on some level, and I've said this about Australia to some different responses, but no one really gives a shit about New Zealand, right?
Marc:In the sense that you're not going to get caught in the middle of anything.
Marc:There's no pressing political urgency.
Marc:So it's like it must be really peaceful.
Guest:yeah it is we you know we try to i didn't mean to be rude if you know that's no that's good that's how we want it you know we i look back at my home as as a village as a you know peace loving village yeah and uh but we like to have our stamp on the world we have our say you know and some of that is sometimes it's the muscles it's in the in the in the shellfish
Guest:But I like to make a stand in comedy.
Guest:You know, I'm like, hey, you know, we might come from this place, you know, next stop Antarctica, but look, we can make the funny.
Marc:Well, what is it?
Marc:Well, yeah, but what is it?
Marc:Because, you know, I've watched some of your stand up.
Marc:I've seen it on Flight of the Conchords and, you know, I'm hip to the new series.
Marc:And I've seen you in movies and, you know, no one here.
Marc:I didn't know you as a stand up.
Marc:But like then again, I like I'm like I'm stupidly American in the sense that I don't know a lot of the British stand ups.
Marc:You know, I know some Australian stand ups because I've been there.
Marc:But, you know, we look at that form stand up sort of started here.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then kind of spread out.
Marc:But obviously there's a comedy scene in New Zealand.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's small.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:What did you do before you did comedy?
Marc:How many brothers and sisters do you really have?
Guest:I've got one brother, three sisters.
Guest:All right, so pretty big family.
Guest:What business was your father in?
Guest:He was a carpenter.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What did he build?
Guest:Houses.
Guest:Do you know how to build shit?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I didn't get that gene.
Guest:How about cabinets?
Guest:I'm good with Legos.
Guest:Legos.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a little easier.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's not a lot of measuring.
Guest:I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah.
Marc:Do you do cabinets too?
Marc:Doors?
Guest:My dad?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He could do it all.
Guest:That's fucking amazing.
Guest:You know, those things you put pot plants in.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Pot plant holders.
Marc:What are they called?
Guest:Beds.
Guest:Flower beds.
Guest:Troughs for the sheep.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Don't you envy that?
Um...
Guest:I wish I was better with my hands, but it's not my thing.
Marc:That must have been a good business, though, in New Zealand, because people had to build their forts and their villages.
Guest:Yeah, and it's still happening.
Guest:I mean, after the quake in Christchurch, there's so much rebuilding being required.
Guest:How bad was that?
Guest:Oh, really bad.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:So that sort of throws a wrench into the whole world of piecing.
Guest:Well, yeah, the place got shaken up, shook up.
Marc:Have you been in a quake couple?
Yeah.
Guest:Oh, the quakes are pretty common in New Zealand.
Guest:We're on a fault line.
Guest:It's a bit like LA.
Guest:Yeah, we had three last week.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:So for you, you're like, nah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I still worry.
Guest:I mean, it's still a shock.
Guest:Oh, here we go.
Guest:But, yeah, that can be devastating.
Guest:And that's the thing is you just don't know and you've got to be ready.
Guest:You've got to be ready, everyone.
Guest:Just be prepared.
Guest:Even though it sounds stupid getting some, you know, your preparation, it's not.
Guest:You've got to do it because it's one of those things you just, I don't know how we ended up talking about this.
Guest:What do you have to be ready?
Marc:Because I'm concerned about it.
Marc:Because, like, I have a flashlight.
Marc:I've got a few bottles of water.
Marc:Like, I have one less because I gave you one.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Guest:Well, replace that one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Replace that one.
Marc:So I got water and I've got a flashlight.
Marc:Tinned food?
Marc:Tinned.
Marc:A couple of tinned foods.
Guest:Yeah, because nothing's going to work.
Guest:You know, all your power's out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You can't heat anything up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And the food's going to be rotting in supermarkets.
Marc:So you really have to have a... And you probably have to have something to barricade yourself in for when the looting starts, depending on how long anything's going to go on for.
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:I mean, that's an American thing, isn't it?
Guest:Oh, let's loot.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Looting.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:No, it's not.
Guest:Free invitation.
Guest:Grab some TVs.
Guest:You can't plug them in.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just grab them.
Guest:When the power comes on, we'll be sorted.
Guest:Well, we have a certain amount of anonymity here.
Marc:And apparently in New Zealand, if there's looting, you're like, oh, there's John.
Marc:You know, like you can't.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Everyone knows each other, sort of.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know what you stole, John.
Guest:Well, I saw you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:And you're a cop.
Marc:Come on.
Marc:Yeah, where's the morality?
Marc:But what did you grow up doing?
Marc:I mean, was it normal high school?
Marc:You listened to what, ACDC music or what, rock bands?
Guest:Yeah, pretty normal.
Guest:Well, not really.
Guest:I mean, I was in the Air Training Corps.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You flew planes?
Guest:I flew some gliders.
Guest:Gliders.
Guest:I learned... I was good at... Combat gliders?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:Peaceful ones.
Guest:Peaceful gliders.
Guest:Well, I would hope that all gliders are peaceful.
Guest:They look so beautiful and peaceful.
Guest:Underneath the wings, there's some missiles.
Guest:Just some small ones.
Guest:You've got to launch them before you just naturally drift to the ground.
Guest:Drift off.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:You got pulled by a plane and then cut loose?
Guest:Yeah, pulled up by a plane and then cut loose and then away you go.
Guest:That's amazing.
Marc:What was that training for?
Marc:What practical use is that?
Guest:Well, early ambitions to be a jet fighter pilot.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:But then those hopes and dreams were dashed when I failed miserably at the...
Guest:So, you know, who would have thought?
Guest:The math?
Guest:The math and the physics.
Guest:So I'm not, my head's not around that kind of thing.
Guest:And for some reason you need to work out that sort of crap.
Marc:You need to know the sort of, to work out where your altitude and the, I don't even know how to talk.
Marc:I can't even throw words around.
Guest:I know.
Marc:I would have thought the dials do all that.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Just like, get me up and I'm steering.
Guest:Get me up, I'm steering it.
Guest:You know, I'm going to push the landing button.
Guest:You know, I can see I'm dodging clouds.
Guest:What's the problem here?
Guest:Why do I need math?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've got a calculator watch.
Guest:You know, if anything need be, I'll punch it in.
Guest:And there's another guy in the plane with me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's the math guy.
Guest:The nerdy guy behind me.
Guest:He knows the altitude and the flaps situation.
Guest:That's his job.
Guest:I'm the guy who gets to fly it.
Guest:I just wanted the glory.
Guest:I wanted the sunglasses and the hat.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Was it heartbreaking, really?
Guest:No.
Guest:It was around that kind of Top Gun time.
Marc:You did your time in the service, though.
Marc:Was that a requirement?
Guest:Well, that wasn't the Air Force.
Guest:That was just as a cadet.
Guest:That was while I was still at school.
Guest:And then when I realized fighter pilot wasn't for me, I switched to the Army.
Guest:So then I did some soldiering.
Guest:You enlisted?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I joined up with the New Zealand Army and I did like four years as a signaller.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's a signaller do?
Guest:So radios.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:So Morse code, telecommunications, putting up antennas.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:That sort of thing.
Guest:Driving around on Land Rovers.
Guest:Did you see a lot of action in New Zealand?
Guest:Well, you know.
Guest:no no there was a lot of training so we we learned we drove around we had fun like i was like 17 18 yeah and just uh you know just really i after i left i realized you know four years and you know we're not gonna i'm not gonna see any action i thought i might go overseas and um but really i realized at that point
Guest:look, I don't really want to do this.
Guest:This is not me.
Guest:What I want to do is I want to pretend I'm doing this.
Guest:So that's what I was getting confused with myself.
Guest:I wanted to be an actor playing a soldier, fighting in a battle and rescuing POWs and stuff.
Guest:I don't want to do it for real.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And also as an actor now, you have almost a method, the ability, you can really do Morse code.
Marc:I can, yeah.
Marc:Do you put that on your resume as other skills?
Guest:Yeah, when I go and put auditions and you've got to hand your resume in.
Guest:Other skills, Morse code.
Guest:I see you've got Morse code here.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:Okay, now we're looking for, now this part is just for wacky neighbor.
Guest:Okay, but your Morse code, you know, that might come in.
Guest:Oh, that's what I was thinking.
Guest:Did you shoot guns?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I fired lots of different weapons, rocket launchers, grenades.
Guest:Rocket launchers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That must have been a rush.
Guest:Blew up a V-dub.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:With a rocket launcher.
Guest:That was pretty cool.
Guest:By accident or that was the target?
Guest:No, that was the target.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It was out there.
Guest:It was like about a mile away.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And you've got your scope.
Guest:You've got the sights on the thing and you've got a big rocket launcher on your shoulder and then you just...
Guest:Pull the trigger and... Wait.
Guest:Just, yeah, this big cylinder on your shoulder and then...
Guest:And you're looking and you can't believe what you've done, you know, and you see this thing.
Guest:Have I done that?
Guest:And then the whole thing blow up, you know, big, big explosion.
Guest:And then you sort of look around at your mates and you feel like a man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You feel like, oh, God damn.
Guest:I get used to this.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was shortly after that.
Guest:I thought, oh, man, I don't think I should be doing this.
Guest:This isn't in the right hands.
Guest:You know, I was very lucky that that was aimed correctly.
Guest:And that it was empty.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think it becomes a whole different game when there's people involved.
Marc:So what did you start to... So you got out of the army and you went to college or what?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Went to university.
Guest:What did you study over there?
Guest:So then I did a bit of philosophy.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Sociology.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And art theory.
Guest:Art theory.
Marc:Yeah, I've done some of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that's kind of interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, Phil, you built your brain.
Guest:Exactly.
Marc:You want to look at things and understand things.
Marc:You understand people.
Marc:You understand bullshit.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly it.
Guest:So I really set myself up for being a stand-up.
Guest:Yeah, you did.
Guest:I think that's true.
Marc:I think the art theory one's a little dicey.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's hard to really get regular people to get interested in that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Looking at these two pictures, were the Flemish actually painting, or were they working from a reproduction through a lens because camera obscuras were popular at the time?
Marc:So what's the credibility of this?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I lost the audience.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Then again, they wandered off.
Guest:Wait, wait.
Guest:No, this is important.
Guest:What about this?
Guest:Oh, come back in.
Guest:Hey, he's doing Morse.
Guest:He's doing Morse.
Guest:Wait for a beat.
Guest:Then you take a beat and hit the couple.
Marc:That'd be funny to actually do a joke in Morse code.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:Have you done it?
Guest:Well, I've got my new stand-up show I'm working on.
Guest:I'm doing some Morse in there.
Guest:I mean, it's all very well.
Guest:I could do a joke in Morse, but there's no point because no one else knows it, and I could be beeping anything.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:And the worst thing about Morse is that it takes so long to get through a word because every letter is like...
Guest:Next letter.
Guest:Why is it still used, do you think?
Guest:It's not.
Guest:It's not.
Guest:It's dead.
Guest:It's dead.
Guest:It's a dead art.
Guest:It's still there.
Guest:It's like Latin.
Guest:It's a dead language that intellectuals use.
Marc:They're just holding on to it.
Marc:Believe in the Morse communication.
Marc:Yeah, bring it back.
Marc:All right, so you go to college for that stuff.
Marc:What was the plan there?
Guest:uh well i think probably no plan i thought the plan was to finish get a degree and then do journalism because that was a postgraduate course so i wanted to i thought like i'd be a journalist but like art theory did you love art so yeah i'm good at art i like art i like talking about do you paint art um not much i draw yeah sketch yeah
Marc:And who were your favorite artists?
Guest:Van Gogh and all the classics, Picasso.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you just learned art theory.
Marc:So you read a lot of art criticism?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, for me, the big thing was, what's the difference between art and craft?
Guest:So, you know, how do you even say what art is?
Guest:Because, you know, this is art.
Guest:Oh, is it?
Guest:And how do you prove that?
Guest:Where anything can be art.
Guest:No, it can't.
Guest:Certain things aren't art.
Guest:For something to be art, it has to...
Guest:The art community, the art world, have to agree that it is.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then you have to be in the art world.
Guest:So there's this elitist kind of thing with artists.
Marc:It absolutely is.
Guest:You know, it really is.
Marc:And it's between artists and the wealthy.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:You have to have the patrons to purchase the thing for a lot of money that sets a standard.
Marc:But I think that's interesting.
Marc:The deal between art and craft is that any idiot can throw some paint on a canvas.
Marc:That's always been the argument with modern art.
Marc:Like someone who's ignorant can look at a piece of modern art done by a genius and go like, that's garbage.
Marc:And they can look at a piece of modern art by someone who does know what they're doing and not see any difference between the two.
Marc:And the difference is, well, that guy paid his dues.
Marc:And if you look at his old stuff, he could paint the shit out of something.
Marc:And now he's taken it a different place because he's got the skill.
Guest:yeah yeah exactly yeah right so that's the whole thing and then there's a bit of confusion over you know who's in the art world are we all in it or not i mean how you know no apparently we're not right it's only the artists that are sure the artists that the rich people decide yeah are the rich people and the critics yeah come together to make a decision yeah and that's and that's what sets history history going yeah all right well i'm glad we solved that so you're pretty good at that you did all right in that area yeah i did okay i did okay
Marc:So you didn't do the journalism thing?
Marc:You didn't go all the way through?
Guest:No, in the end, I mean, this is where comedy really came in for me.
Guest:When I was at university, I joined the comedy club, which is like a social club of, you know, like-minded fools that meet once a week and write sketches.
Guest:And, you know, and I sort of, you know, thought, oh, well, you know, I'm quite funny.
Guest:And everyone's always laughed at me at school.
Guest:Maybe this is for me.
Guest:So I joined up.
Guest:Who was in it?
Marc:Anybody that eventually surfaced in the comedy world?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, just me.
Guest:There's a few others.
Guest:There's Guy Roberts.
Guest:He'll like to be mentioned.
Guest:He ended up writing on Short Poppies, actually.
Guest:You pulled him back in?
Guest:Yeah, pulled him back in after all these years.
Guest:Nice.
Guest:He was the president of the comedy club, and he signed me up.
Marc:And he's been within the show business in New Zealand anyways?
Guest:Well, he's done bits of writing here and there.
Guest:He's very, you know, he's one of these like classic writer, really, really funny, you know, but then just can't be can't just can't get to the next level, you know.
Guest:And so so I thought, well, look, you know, I want to leave New Zealand.
Marc:No, it's hard to get to the next level.
Guest:If you don't leave the village.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:But his stuff about driftwood and his beaches and early Maori warfare.
Guest:It wasn't funny, but it was insightful.
Guest:So, yeah, there's a few other guys that were in there that still do comedy today.
Guest:So that's great.
Marc:So would you say you were there at the beginning of the New Zealand comedy explosion?
Guest:Yes, I think so.
Marc:Were you one of the godfathers of the New Zealand comedy explosion?
Guest:I think probably one of the uncles.
Guest:But were there guys like this?
Guest:A couple older than me that had been around longer.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Who were they?
Yeah.
Guest:Mike King.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Andrew Clay.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Ewan Gilmore.
Guest:These were stand-ups.
Guest:Yep, stand-ups.
Guest:Brendan Lovegrove.
Guest:And they were around, what, in the 80s?
Guest:So, no, no, no.
Guest:Nothing was happening until about 90, 95, 96.
Guest:Isn't that wild?
Marc:But when you were like 20 or whenever you were in the comedy club, were there...
Marc:I know there are gigs in New Zealand because I was asked to do them, and I should have when I was in Australia.
Marc:But were there touring comics?
Marc:Because the weird thing that I realized is that stand-up comedy is really this weird American thing.
Marc:And for years, there was a dominance of it.
Marc:You'd get American touring comics that would go do international shows, and you'd get to see that.
Marc:And then at some point, every country now has an indigenous comedy scene.
Marc:And the Americans are like, yeah, we got it.
Marc:We know how to do it now.
Guest:We got our own guys.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So were there guys touring that you were able to see at that time?
Guest:Not in New Zealand.
Guest:Not at all, right?
Guest:No one came from overseas there.
Marc:And what was popular there comedically on TV and stuff?
Guest:Well, British and American sitcoms.
Guest:But yeah, mainly things like Blackadder.
Guest:You'll know that.
Guest:Rowan Atkinson?
Guest:Yeah, Rowan Atkinson stuff.
Guest:He's funny, man.
Guest:Not the 9 o'clock news.
Guest:Obviously, Monty Python was huge.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Um, so yeah, but in terms of, and in New Zealand, we had a couple of sort of, uh, we had sort of all around entertainers type guys, you know, back in those days.
Guest:You're a song and dance man.
Guest:In the eighties.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So.
Marc:What'd they do?
Marc:Like, uh, sketches and songs?
Guest:Yeah, they would do, yeah.
Guest:So in particular, Billy T. James, who's a Maori performer and he is a very talented man, guitar, singing, dancing, uh, well, not much dancing actually, but a lot of jokes, a lot of, uh, comedy.
Marc:And you'd go see that as a kid or?
Guest:No, I was too young.
Guest:But yeah, he was really, it was him and then there was another chap called John Clark.
Guest:And he's been a bit of an inspiration to me.
Guest:He was doing this kind of, which this show, Short Poppies, plays quite a homage to is he would do the mockumentary style comedy back in the late, mid to late 70s.
Marc:He would film character pieces.
Guest:He would film himself as a character with a journalist following him around as a farmer.
Guest:The character was Fred Dagg.
Guest:And he would, with a straight face, tell him all of this absolutely ridiculous stuff that's going on in his farm.
Guest:And you just have to watch.
Guest:And it was like, but no one had seen this before.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And everyone was sort of watching and going, what, is this real?
Guest:What's going on?
Guest:So was that good?
Guest:Yeah, really good.
Guest:And then we didn't have that again for a long, long time.
Guest:And then, of course, after years later, we got things like The Office and all the rest of it.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:But he was doing that sort of 1973, 1974.
Guest:And that was on the local television?
Guest:That was on television, yeah.
Guest:And you knew it was a joke because you knew, well, the stuff he was saying was ridiculous.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he's a very funny man, but did it all straight-faced.
Guest:And he became this iconic character, this Fred Dagg.
Guest:And then he moved to...
Guest:to Australia.
Guest:For the big time?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:And then he never returned.
Marc:Did he continue doing that kind of work?
Guest:I think he sort of didn't do so much of that character, but he's still today in Australia doing political satire and doing, yeah.
Guest:Isn't that wild?
Guest:Do you have a relationship with him?
Guest:No, I never met him.
Guest:Does he know about your show?
Guest:He probably does.
Guest:And does he know that there is a tip of the hat to him?
Guest:I think so.
Guest:And I think I've sort of said this in a few press media things.
Guest:So hopefully he will like the show and know that he inspired me.
Guest:Because just that work that I would have seen probably in the 80s.
Guest:And then I carried on with, you know, when I became a stand-up, really, I was inspired by the British, like the Pythons, more sketch stuff.
Guest:And so I really wanted to be in a sketch troupe.
Guest:That didn't really happen.
Guest:I was in a comedy duo for a while.
Guest:How did that work?
Guest:That went really well.
Guest:It's with Grant Lobin.
Guest:He's my old comedy pal.
Guest:Was there like a standard kind of a straight guy, goofy guy set-up?
Guest:Yeah, I was.
Guest:You were the over-the-top guy?
Guest:I was the over-the-top, sort of uptight leader.
Guest:He was the sort of dopey, kind of laid-back, laconic kind of guy who played the bass guitar and just looked valuable.
Guest:So he was sort of the deadpan-y guy?
Guest:yeah yeah yeah um real oddball and he still is and he's in the show too i got him in the tv show later on so um put him in there as to act and he did a fantastic job it's nice that you took care of your boys yeah absolutely but like when you started doing stand-up in new zealand i gotta i gotta assume there wasn't a comedy club initially
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, when I first started, I guess, at university, then a comedy club opened up and it was big news.
Guest:And it's still, to this day, the only purpose... Well, it was actually a porn theatre before it was a...
Marc:Good, that's a natural evolution.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:But I'm going to say purpose-built comedy club.
Guest:So there's still only one.
Marc:In Auckland?
Guest:It's in Auckland.
Guest:It's called the Classic.
Guest:But these days, there's a lot of other venues that offer comedy on a weekly or monthly basis in Wellington and Auckland.
Marc:Now, what was the way into recognition?
Marc:Did you do the festivals?
Marc:How did that work?
Marc:So when you first put together your act, so you're in college, you're writing, you're in a sketch group, and then you put together a solo act.
Marc:And the comedy I've seen you do, it's long form, it's big, it's physical, which is, to me, a rare gift to actually be able to have confidence and innately be physically funny and keep pushing that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Look at me now.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I'm still doing this.
Guest:Look at this.
Guest:Look at this impression.
Guest:I'm stuck in a current.
Guest:Oh, look at me.
Guest:But it's funny, right?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:I like, I mean, that's what I'm into.
Guest:I'm into physical comedy.
Guest:We spoke about Ron Atkinson.
Guest:Jim Carrey also was an influence on me.
Marc:But it's funny that the role in Flight of the Conchords is not.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's completely.
Marc:The opposite.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it was hilarious.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, you know, I think, I guess, a guy whose natural tendencies is to be big.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:When you've got to tighten it up, all that energy is going somewhere.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, like, so the intensity of it really, really worked well.
Guest:I guess, I guess.
Marc:But was that the first time you ever, like, had to, like, basically shut it down?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was so good for me because, you know, Jermaine, you know, he trusted me.
Guest:He wanted me to be him and Brett wanted me in this role.
Guest:And particularly it was Jermaine who would say to me now and again, you know, you've got to tone it down.
Guest:Your eyes are getting big or whatever, you know, because I do these big eye things.
Guest:And back in those days, I was getting this amount of success, and I was thinking, oh, wow, I'm really rocking it here.
Guest:But I still needed him to sort of tone me down.
Guest:And then I guess the new skill that I developed through this was the improvising, was the sitting behind this desk, having two guys in front of me, and then just...
Guest:just be more of a wordsmith than using the physicality.
Marc:You did a lot of improvising on that show?
Guest:Yeah, during the band meetings, we did a lot of that, especially second season where we're very confident.
Guest:We know each other so well.
Guest:And we found that some gold would come out.
Marc:Well, it's funny because the sort of...
Marc:the tenor of that show like in the interaction because they're both kind of low-key but they're both very different versions of it yeah so there was never a that i think that gave that that that a beautiful pace to the show that nobody was like yeah there was no one crazy yeah yeah yeah maybe mel you know a little bit the fan but yeah yeah she was but she's great yeah so okay so you so what'd you do enborough and that kind of stuff
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How many years into comedy were you?
Marc:Because I noticed that in that world, when you do Edinburgh, you usually need a one-person show or to have the idea that there is a through line or that it is a theater piece.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And I think that takes a little of the onus off on getting a laugh every 30 seconds.
Guest:It does, yeah.
Marc:Because you can sort of spread it out.
Marc:Is that the first time you put together an hour?
Yeah.
Guest:yeah it was yeah i think um yeah i mean when i initially went over there i was in a uh a group yeah um and we did we did a like you know maybe a 10 minute spot each there was there was four of us new zealanders we're called new zealand's brat pack um you're young young hip and hilarious did you pull audiences
Guest:A little bit, yeah, because we walked around all day in suits and drank a lot.
Guest:Handing out flyers?
Guest:Yeah, handing out flyers, just hanging out in bars, trying to look cool, trying to get girls involved.
Guest:We were young, like in our 20s, and we got a few people in.
Guest:But yeah, the following year I did my first solo show, but I'm still in those days thinking, you know, I've got to be funny 100% of the time.
Guest:I can't let it up.
Guest:So I wasn't doing the long form stories that I'm doing now.
Guest:But back in those days, it's to do with maturity and stuff.
Guest:And I really felt like I had to get these guys laughing constantly.
Guest:So I did a lot.
Guest:of physicality yeah and stuff and uh so yeah looking back on those early shows you know they're pretty shambolic but over the years though they got better so i've done like eight edinburgh's now really yeah and you still go well i'm not going this year the last one i did was 2012 and that was a really big show and it uh you know it's a it's a big thing to be there for the whole three weeks i took my family and the kids and everything
Guest:And we did really well.
Guest:So then last year, I took the whole year off, really, climbed Mount Kilimanjaro.
Guest:What?
Guest:In Africa.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, something different.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I climbed a mountain.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay, so before we get to Mount Kilimanjaro, because I'd like to know the personal journey you took there.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:Like, as an American, I understand that a good chunk of your yearly income, if you jump through the hurdles of Edinburgh and build that audience, it's a nice, you know, it's a big piece of your... Yeah, it is.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But for me, the thought of going back again is just horrifying.
Marc:I can't imagine going back every year for three years.
Marc:Because as an American, I think even as anybody, it's hit or miss.
Marc:It is.
Marc:You don't know if you're going to get the Scotsman review, whatever.
Marc:Is that what it is?
Marc:The Scotsman?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The Scotsman.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If you don't nail that, you're fucked.
Guest:You're going to get four stars in there at least.
Guest:Otherwise, you're out.
Marc:Nine people for a month.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Nine, ten people.
Guest:It's brutal.
Guest:And that's the horrifying nature of it, is the critics and the reviews, and they come out all the time.
Guest:And I mean, I can go there, and because I've got a bit of fame behind me, I'll get a crowd.
Guest:But if the reviews aren't good, they can still damage me a lot.
Guest:And as an artist, they get to you, because you say to yourself, I'm never going to look at any reviews, and you can get away with doing that, but...
Guest:you know some some chinese whispers come through and you hear that you know you got a bad one or something like that and you can't help but look at it you know and so you just i'm not doing this anymore you know yeah but uh and if they're good if they push your buttons it's the worst yeah like if you can actually look at a review and go that's bullshit but usually if it's like if it's a real astute mean reviewer yeah i'll hit you right where you live and you're like oh maybe i
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And that sort of happened to me a little bit when I got the fame and then came back and did Edinburgh because I'd done Edinburgh many times to, you know, 10, 15 people.
Guest:And then I came back after the Concords, maybe season two or something and was playing to, you know, three, four hundred and going, oh, my God.
Guest:finally you know and then but then the reviews were like ah this guy's not what you know not as good as you think he is all this stuff so there's a couple of those yeah luckily there was some good ones as well but it made me wake up and go okay you know if i'm gonna do this again i'm really gonna make sure the show's really really good and so i did that did you write it all yourself or yeah yeah all myself direct it or you had a director and um i've had a director a few times i'm sure if i did in the last so you go back with a vengeance your last one
Guest:The 2012 one was my big success story.
Guest:And you nailed it, all the reviews?
Guest:Nailed it, everything.
Guest:Five stars.
Guest:And you're like, fuck it, I'm climbing a mountain.
Guest:That's it for me.
Guest:I'm out of here.
Guest:So that's why I'm not going back this year.
Guest:But I am doing a UK tour because I really believe this new show, which is called Mr. Adventure, based on some of the adventures I've done over the years and life in general being an adventure, is as good as the 2012 one.
Marc:Is there an arc to it?
Marc:Is there like a transformation?
Marc:Is it a theater piece?
Guest:Yeah, what I do is, and this is what I did for the This Way to Spaceship, which was the 2012 show, is I have stand-up, but because I like doing theater, I want to have a narrative in the show.
Guest:So I sort of bookended the stand-up with or hit it inside a theatrical narrative.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So there was moments in the show where I'm totally acting like it's a one-man play.
Guest:And then I'll do flashbacks to me doing stand-up.
Guest:And then I'm doing stand-up for real.
Guest:So I'm really sort of mixing it up, mixing theater and stand-up up.
Guest:And so I've done that again in this new show.
Guest:And I just really enjoy that.
Marc:What are some of the great adventures?
Guest:Well, there's Kilimanjaro.
Marc:Oh, so that's in the new show.
Guest:That's in the new show.
Guest:I talk about that.
Guest:Before then, I went to Rwanda in 2009 and searched for the mountain gorillas.
Guest:For a TV show?
Guest:That was for a TV show, yeah.
Guest:You can find that on YouTube.
Guest:Oh, it was a travel show kind of thing?
Guest:It was called Intrepid Journeys, where they take well-known New Zealanders and they plop them into some place where they're not going to be comfortable.
Guest:And then I have to watch them as they struggle.
Guest:And you got Rwanda.
Guest:Yeah, I got Rwanda.
Marc:Did you find the monkeys and the gorillas?
Guest:Yeah, found them all.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:An amazing experience.
Guest:Yeah, we trekked for three hours through the Volcanoes National Park, through all the forest, and then found these gorillas and then spent an hour with them.
Guest:Talking?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, they weren't talking, but they were grunting.
Marc:You could get close to them?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We're like five feet away.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That must have been mind-blowing.
Guest:It was.
Guest:And are they rare, those particular ones?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:There's less than 800 left alive.
Guest:And I got to look them up.
Marc:Do they look like regular gorillas?
Guest:Yeah, they're bigger.
Guest:They're mountain gorillas.
Guest:So they're slightly bigger.
Guest:And the way they look at you, and you look at them just into their eyes, the way they look at you, it just makes you think that they're thinking, yeah, we know who you are.
Guest:We know about you humans.
Guest:You started here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, it's something like that.
Guest:And also, you know, please.
Guest:But they let us in and there's a communication thing going on between the humans and the gorillas.
Guest:It's all in my new show, but I learned basically how to communicate with gorillas.
Guest:And how?
Guest:I'll show you one thing, okay?
Guest:This is hello in gorilla, okay?
Okay.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you figured that out or would you have a gorilla?
Guest:The guide told me and he'd been working with them for 30 years.
Marc:And when you do that, do they make the noise back to you?
Marc:That is crazy.
Guest:And we went up there and we found the group that we had been searching for for three hours and the gorilla came towards us.
Guest:and he's rumbling towards us and at that point i'm like oh i'm out of here you know i hid behind a tree yeah but then uh francois who was the guide just stood there and uh he knew that he knew this gorilla the gorilla come up to him and then he did they both went
Guest:Like that.
Guest:And then everything was cool.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then basically there's another communication they did after that.
Guest:And it was about whether we could go in and watch their group.
Guest:So this is this gorilla.
Marc:So you can ask permission.
Guest:Can we come in?
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Can we come in?
Guest:Because it happens, you know, when we find them, they get contacted with a tourist group like three times a week.
Guest:And so...
Guest:And then they're not always comfortable with people looking at them.
Guest:They've got some family issues happening, you know?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Arguments, whatever.
Guest:I mean, they're so human.
Guest:It's ridiculous.
Guest:And so just to watch that exchange blew me away.
Guest:And then we were allowed to come in.
Guest:And then we went in and we just spent an hour with them watching them.
Guest:This is my wife.
Guest:Yeah, here's my family.
Guest:And they're rolling about, sort of eating bamboo, giving their little kids horsey rides.
Guest:And it was just like, for me, it was like, wow.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's astounding.
Guest:It's astounding.
Marc:That there's a sense of love and community.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And play.
Guest:You feel like they've got it right, though, because they're lounging about and they're looking at us and saying, man, you got too much going on in your head and look what you've done with your species.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Just leave us the F alone.
Guest:Just by virtue of the fact that you're wearing clothing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You're hung up on things.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:Look how tight those things are.
Guest:You've got skinny jeans on there.
Guest:Oh, you're a fool.
Guest:Those legs are yours.
Guest:I must be feeling it.
Marc:Oh, that's amazing.
Marc:Okay, so the Kilimanjaro thing.
Marc:But was the Kilimanjaro thing a voluntary thing or another show?
Guest:That was for World Vision.
Guest:So I volunteered to climb the mountain with some other well-known people.
Guest:Are you one of those people that are like that these are things you would never have fucking done?
Guest:Had you, you know, like if you hadn't been pushed into- Possibly, yeah.
Guest:And this is the best thing about being a comedian and then being a famous comedian is that these opportunities come up.
Guest:And, you know, I would always say to my kids, you know, if they want to go down this route to entertain, do it just simply because of the opportunities that you get given.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And you get to meet people, cultures all over the world and go and search for gorillas and all this sort of weird stuff that's happened to me.
Guest:Climb a mountain.
Guest:All for good.
Guest:All for good causes.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:And because people want to see you do these things.
Guest:And as long as you're respectful and you learn a lot about every area that you go into –
Guest:Try and speak the language, you know, try and learn some of it.
Guest:You know, you come out as a better person.
Guest:So I say yes to them.
Guest:And even though I've got two children, I mean, I draw the line if there's anything like, you know, a skydiving thing off.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Guest:So it's all got to be pretty safe.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Well, and also the interesting thing about being a comic and being put in those positions is that, you know, as a comic, you know you're going to be funny.
Marc:You go in front of an audience.
Marc:You got control.
Marc:You do your thing.
Marc:But, you know, when you're out there with wild animals or, you know, precariously perched on a mountain, you know, your first instinct, you know, the funny doesn't, it's not going to help you necessarily.
No.
Marc:No.
Marc:There's a vulnerability to it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was there footage of you actually frightened?
Guest:Yeah, there is.
Guest:And for the mountain climb, I mean, I was a little under the weather.
Guest:I had a sore throat.
Guest:And the higher up I got altitude-wise, I struggled and struggled.
Guest:To breathe even, right?
Guest:Yeah, really, really.
Guest:And it was touch and go as to whether they were going to send me down at one point.
Guest:But they thought I might have had altitude sickness, which, of course, you know, can be a killer.
Marc:You get throw up and everything.
Guest:yeah you can die from it you can yeah really it's not yeah if they don't if you don't see it just quick enough and send you back down but you know these days when you do these climbs you know you have so many people looking at you and you got oxygen tank right no no no you don't need you don't need the oxygen tank for this climb is it the biggest peak or the second biggest it's one of the top nine yeah so it's um it's certainly the biggest in africa that's for sure but um
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:So you went to the top?
Guest:Got to the top and just was a crying mess.
Guest:Just literally just in tears because I was having trouble breathing.
Guest:And then they just said, all right, you should go down now.
Guest:Now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And some of the others stayed up there and they sort of went around the edge of it, found an even higher point.
Guest:But by that time, I was like, I had to go down.
Guest:And as soon as I started going down, I just felt better and better.
Guest:It's amazing what oxygen does to us.
Guest:And we just take it so much for granted.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Was the view up there pretty?
Guest:Yeah, amazing, spectacular.
Guest:So we got up there at sunrise.
Guest:So we left the last six hours of the climb because the whole thing took six days.
Guest:Six days?
Guest:Six days.
Guest:We camped along the way, yeah.
Guest:Real expedition, you know, and then the last six-hour climb was pretty much straight up this scree, zigzagging our way up.
Guest:The hardest thing I've ever done, I was moving at the pace of an old man sort of stuck in a rest home trying to get to the toilets in the middle of the night with his walker.
Guest:You're right, Alfred?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really awful.
Guest:And, you know.
Guest:Did you feel like a personal victory once you got to the top?
Guest:I just hated every step of it.
Guest:And it was so cold.
Guest:And I had, you know, three pairs of gloves on and the jackets and so much clothing on.
Guest:And, of course, that just makes it so much harder.
Guest:We had the walking stick thing.
Guest:And I just couldn't.
Guest:I had handed my walking stick away.
Guest:So I'm not having that.
Guest:That's another thing I have to hold.
Guest:I can't cope with any of it.
Guest:So you were completely out of any comfort zone at all?
Guest:No comfort whatsoever.
Guest:Just wanted it to end and got up the top, you know, saw the sunrise, did a 360 view of Africa.
Guest:Wow, this is amazing.
Guest:All right, let's get out of here.
Guest:You couldn't even enjoy it because it was not going to erase the misery.
Guest:No, it was not enough to erase the misery.
Guest:Not worth it.
Guest:Not worth it.
Guest:Do not do it, guys.
Guest:But, you know, I've got the stories.
Guest:But the gorillas was good.
Guest:Yeah, the gorillas was really good.
Guest:But I'm not a mountain climber.
Guest:But the worst thing is, you know, you climb one mountain and then the phone rings.
Guest:Hey, got another thing here for you.
Guest:And so this year I'm scheduled to do Everest.
Guest:Are you really?
Guest:Base camp.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:So that's not the whole of the way.
Guest:It's the base camp, but it's still high.
Marc:I just learned that there is people up on Everest just frozen there.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That fucking tripped me out.
Marc:That's weird, eh?
Marc:That they just leave them up there.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Why do they leave them?
Guest:Because you can't... Too much to bring them back.
Marc:That is so bizarre.
Marc:Like, I saw pictures or something.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Oh, man.
Marc:There are known spots along the way where they're just frozen folks.
Guest:There's a guy.
Marc:There's a guy.
Marc:Keep walking.
Guest:Don't poke him.
Guest:It's worth it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That won't be you.
Guest:Hopefully.
Guest:Hopefully.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I'm no interest in, like, I'm going to base camp, and then we're doing, this time, there's like six of us comics going, some British guys, Canadians.
Guest:Who?
Guest:Not sure.
Guest:I can't remember the names, but Glenn Will.
Guest:Oh, Glenn's going?
Guest:You know Glenn?
Marc:Yeah, he better clean up for a few weeks.
Guest:Yeah, I think he's in some training now.
Guest:I must email him, actually.
Guest:He's a good buddy of mine.
Guest:So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to him coming along.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Make sure he's... Craig Campbell, I think, is going.
Guest:That's another Canadian comment.
Guest:Make sure Will is fit to handle it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think it's like a nine-day trek, this one.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:And it might be... The trek itself might be harder.
Guest:Are you going to bring beer or...
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah, a few doobies.
Guest:And once we get to base camp, we're all putting on a show.
Guest:So this is a different deal, this one.
Guest:We're actually doing stand-up.
Marc:A show with no oxygen.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, they used to do that.
Marc:Did you ever do the Aspen Comedy Festival ever?
Marc:I heard about it.
Marc:Yeah, it was like that.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah, because it's about a mile high.
Marc:It's not crazy, but you can definitely feel it, and your brain doesn't fire quite right.
Marc:So you're kind of slurring words, and you're like, why can't I...
Marc:Do people laugh more because of the... No, I don't.
Marc:I just found it all to be, you know, the mild altitude sickness.
Marc:Because altitude sickness, it kind of fucks you up.
Marc:It fucks your stomach up and you don't really... And it fucks your brain up a little bit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you do adjust to it.
Marc:But, you know, usually the festival was like two or three days.
Marc:So you never really got to adjust to it.
Marc:And you just kind of... You're fighting this weird thing in your mind.
Marc:Like you kind of skid on words or things would fall out.
Marc:And maybe it was just me.
Marc:But I don't think that the audiences were better.
Marc:No.
Marc:No.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:I mean, yeah.
Marc:You're not laughing more when you're trying to breathe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But the thing is, we're trying to get 50 fans to go with us so you can sign up on this thing.
Guest:It's called Stand Up on Everest, and there's a website.
Guest:How's that going?
Guest:Did you get rid of all those tickets?
Guest:I'm not sure.
Guest:I don't think we've sold too many, actually.
Guest:So if you are keen to come up Everest with a whole bunch of comics and have a few beers.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sign up, man.
Guest:It's going to be the adventure of a lifetime.
Marc:So after getting known as a stand-up, the biggest break was the Concords.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And how many seasons did you guys do?
Marc:Three or four?
Guest:No, two.
Guest:Just two.
Guest:Just two, and that was it.
Guest:Why'd they do that?
Guest:Why didn't they let you do more?
Guest:Well, no, they did, but the guys only wanted to do two.
Guest:The stories were told.
Guest:Well, yeah, I mean, I knew from the beginning because they were doing two songs an episode that they're going to run out of songs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then, you know, writing more songs and keeping the songs as good as what they have to be because they live or die on their songs and their songs are so fantastic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So they wanted to make sure that.
Guest:Yeah, like, let's end on a high.
Guest:Let's not do a third or fourth season where we're going, oh, these songs aren't very good.
Guest:What are we doing here?
Guest:So, you know, I respect that they wanted to get in, do a really good job and get out.
Guest:And then they can, you know, they tour off the back of it and everything.
Guest:And, you know, it's become a bit of a phenomenon.
Marc:I think it's more of a UK thing or just, you know, any other...
Guest:industry show business industry then that america yeah doesn't set this premium on making 100 yeah keep going yeah yeah doesn't matter what the stories are people like you it's a business yeah yeah you've got is like we're like a factory we're churning out churning but people haven't tuned in for the last three seasons it doesn't matter haven't they yeah well that's all the better we can repeat the stories we repeat the stories just earn your cash you want that ferrari yeah
Guest:So, yeah, it's a very different mindset.
Guest:And, you know, the British do only do two seasons of stuff, you know.
Marc:And there are only, like, six episodes.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:Look at Fawlty Towers.
Guest:It was, like, 12 eps.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:People say it's the greatest sitcom on the planet.
Marc:I guess sometimes it's better.
Marc:Like, I just did a second season of my show, so that's going to be 23 total.
Marc:I'm like, I'm not sure, like, what happens now?
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, I mean, you can keep servicing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But to what end, I guess, sometimes is the question.
Guest:Money.
Guest:I think, yeah.
Guest:But creatively, you've got to think, okay, where's this?
Guest:Can we do it?
Guest:Where's it going?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And when there is a lot of shows here in America that have gone many, many seasons and have kept us that long because they've gone on these great journeys.
Guest:And also people like the people.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:After a certain point, it's like they don't care what the story is.
Marc:They're telling jokes and they're being those people we like.
Guest:yeah yeah i'm listening watching my guys yeah exactly kind of thing yeah my buddy which is true so this you only did um what 10 episodes of short poppies uh i made eight eight yeah and do you feel like you're done uh well i thought i would be when i finished because you know there's i did there's a different character every week i had to play both parts you're the interviewer no i'm not the interviewer that's a real journalist is a friend of mine
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:David Ferrier.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he's great because I said to him, a lot of this is going to be improv and you're just going to hold a straight face.
Guest:Just do what you do.
Guest:Yeah, do what you do.
Guest:And he's used to me goofing around.
Guest:He did a great job of holding back the laughter and acting because he hadn't done that before, but he's having to act as well as just be a journalist.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you had to choose, like, these are, you know, characters that would be familiar to you in your life.
Marc:It isn't a New Zealand-based thing in a way, right?
Guest:Well, you know, I've lived outside of New Zealand for a long time.
Guest:And you get a better head when you look back at your home, at the sort of people that you would hang out with or that you ran into many times.
Guest:And it wouldn't necessarily just be New Zealanders.
Guest:It'd be other people from other countries I'd been to that would fit into their mold of these type of characters.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But I just obviously made them all Kiwis, made them all from one small town in a little village within a village of a country, knowing that the world seems to have this kind of interest in not only New Zealand humour, but in our people and the novelty that we are.
Guest:Like you were saying at the beginning of this, you've heard of this magical place.
Guest:How real is it?
Guest:So I wanted to, we offered, that's one of the great things about the Concords,
Guest:show on hbo was that yeah people didn't know anything about new zealanders and all of a sudden they're sort of faced with these with murray and these two guys and and and it made everyone smile and laugh it was optimistic you know there was nothing negative about the comedy we were portraying there it was it was endearing and we were taking the mickey out of our own nation and uh that that was fine for everyone and so i've kind of
Guest:Done that again, but broadened the world out further and shown many other characters, and they end up linking together.
Guest:And I think it really shows, because, of course, Concords was set in New York.
Guest:This is New Zealand.
Guest:So you look and you see the beautiful place everyone keeps talking about and the beaches and the little towns, and you get much more of an idea of what our home really looks like.
Guest:So I'm really interested to see what people think.
Marc:And also I think that when you deal with regional characters, there's an intimacy to it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, like it's unique, but there's sort of an integrity to, like America is this huge weird thing and New York on TV is New York on TV.
Marc:But when you really have a backdrop of a unique sort of smaller community, there's a depth to it that you don't necessarily see in friends or whatever.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:exactly yeah yeah yeah that's great man so you feel like you could do more yeah i think so because i've since come up with uh four new characters and because i swore that you know i came up with had like seven there eight total because of the last episode there's a the um head of the new zealand television department that comes in and i so i portray him as well so all up there's eight people i portrayed and then but then like within months of doing the show getting it you know finished and everything i started to come up with nine
Guest:there's another guy i could come up with and i started writing down ideas for them and so you know i can definitely do or what i would do if i did another season but i would take maybe my four favorites yeah from this one and then and then extend their lives and then add a few more different situations yeah yeah yeah and you like doing all the different characters
Guest:I do.
Guest:Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Marc:Yeah, because that's something, like, I notice that more with some British shows, and, like, you don't see it a lot.
Marc:Over here, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, where you're just going to do all of them.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Like, it's great.
Marc:Get your acting chops going, and, you know, work.
Marc:I wish I could do characters.
Marc:I can't, like, I don't, I think I can, but only for a minute or two.
Marc:Right, yeah.
Marc:And then I panic.
Marc:I'm like, it's still me, right?
Guest:Have I slipped out of it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, that's the whole thing you got to commit.
Guest:And I really committed.
Guest:As soon as I get the costume on, I become that person all day.
Guest:And people know me as that person.
Guest:And then as soon as I'll take the gear off, it's me again.
Marc:That's fucking hilarious.
Marc:So I know you got kids.
Marc:I know you lived out here.
Marc:I didn't realize you lived down the street from me.
Marc:What were you doing at that time?
Guest:Yeah, we got the green cards last year, the whole family and I. So we've made the move.
Guest:And for the initial- Oh, you're here permanently now?
Guest:Yeah, we're based here now.
Guest:In LA?
Guest:Yeah, in Studio City.
Guest:Oh, I didn't know that.
Guest:So, I mean, we skip back to New Zealand a lot with work bits and pieces.
Guest:But our base, yeah, we're based here now.
Marc:You got family back in New Zealand still, right?
Marc:Of course, yeah.
Guest:My wife and I both have our aging parents that we've got to keep going back.
Guest:Because now they've got grandkids and you owe it to them.
Guest:yeah the grandkids so yeah so we will keep returning and and you know i'm not i'll definitely say yes to projects that i'm interested in that it might be there or in australia things like that you know whatever they whatever the idea is but i think la is a great base sure for show business yeah of course it's the best yeah and this show is a netflix deal so it's going to be kind of evergreen always available yeah you know once it once it's up it's up
Marc:That's a beautiful thing.
Guest:You can watch it any time.
Guest:Yeah, there it is.
Guest:It's on the gallery.
Guest:Check it out.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:It's the future.
Marc:Have you got movies coming up, or what are you doing?
Guest:I'm in talks with some independent-type films.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, but nothing big studio-based yet.
Guest:We'll see what happens.
Marc:Are you in touch with the Concords guys?
Guest:Yeah, constantly.
Guest:Are they here?
Guest:They come and go a lot.
Guest:They're based in Wellington in New Zealand, though.
Guest:Really?
Guest:They live back there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, Brett, he's just finished doing the Muppets 2.
Guest:He does the music.
Marc:Oh, wow.
Guest:That's big.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he's involved in that.
Guest:And then Jermaine pops up as evil, bad, funny guys in movies.
Guest:So he's back and forth quite a bit.
Guest:I think he's in Rio 2 as the evil cockatiel or something.
Guest:And did you use any other?
Guest:He directed a couple of the short Poppies episodes.
Guest:Oh, did he?
Guest:Jermaine, that was his first directing.
Guest:I love that there's this New Zealand contingent.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that you're kind of like, whoever gets some success kind of pulls them in.
Guest:Yeah, pull the other guy in.
Guest:Hey, can I have a go at that?
Guest:Yeah, you come through, you do the music, and you bring the drinks.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then can I act in it?
Marc:I love that.
Marc:I like when people take care of their pals and that you brought that guy from college in.
Marc:Are there other stand-ups that no one would know except for New Zealand people in any of the stuff?
Guest:Yeah, there's a few other comics in there.
Guest:We predominantly used comedians that could act and could improvise in the show.
Guest:So my wife, Rosie, she cast it.
Guest:So she handpicked people.
Guest:We didn't do any auditions.
Guest:And we also got some big names in there.
Guest:We've got Stephen Merchant, Sam Neill.
Guest:Oh, Sam Neill.
Guest:How did he come up?
Guest:Well, he's a New Zealander.
Guest:And we just put an email out and he went, okay.
Guest:He's obviously a fan of my comedy.
Guest:Carl Urban, who you know as Dredd and he's in Star Trek.
Guest:He's in there.
Guest:If...
Guest:car car urban fans would be surprised at the role he took in my comedy series because they're used to seeing him as this action kind of guy right he took the complete opposite i won't let let on how was he great amazing oh that's great great actor um so yeah and do you want to direct movies have you got that bug i want to no i don't want i want to uh write one first yeah yeah i'd definitely like to um to get one well i'm glad things are going so well for you man hey man it's been a pleasure good talking to you yeah you too
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:I like that guy.
Marc:That turned out to be a great conversation.
Marc:I like learning about new countries and comedy scenes elsewhere.
Marc:As per normal, go to WTFPod.com for all you WTFPod needs to check my calendar.
Marc:Get some just coffee.coop.
Marc:If you get the WTF blend, I get a little bit on the back end there.
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Marc:Am I drinking it now?
Marc:Sure.
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