Episode 49 - Kumail Nanjiani

Episode 49 • Released February 21, 2010 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest 2:Lock the gates!

00:00:07Guest 3:Are we doing this?

00:00:08Guest 3:Really?

00:00:08Guest 3:Wait for it.

00:00:09Guest 3:Are we doing this?

00:00:10Guest 3:Wait for it.

00:00:12Guest 3:Pow!

00:00:12Guest 3:What the fuck?

00:00:14Guest 3:And it's also... Eh, what the fuck?

00:00:16Guest 3:What's wrong with me?

00:00:17Guest 3:It's time for WTF!

00:00:19Guest 3:What the fuck?

00:00:20Guest 3:With Mark Maron.

00:00:24Marc:Okay, let's do this.

00:00:25Marc:How are you, what-the-fuck buddies?

00:00:27Marc:What-the-fuckers?

00:00:28Marc:What-the-fuck Terry?

00:00:29Marc:What-the-fuckineers?

00:00:31Marc:Enough of this.

00:00:32Marc:Enough of it.

00:00:33Marc:Okay?

00:00:34Marc:We're going to be what-the-fuck buddies, and occasionally we're going to be what-the-fuckineers.

00:00:38Marc:That's my decision.

00:00:39Marc:I'm sticking by it.

00:00:40Marc:I don't need any more suggestions.

00:00:42Marc:I know a lot of you are, and thankfully, I'm certainly not complaining, but a lot of you are picking up at the beginning of the series of podcasts.

00:00:50Marc:And so those of you who are coming into it now...

00:00:53Marc:I have to realize that that we've already resolved a lot of the things that were going on on, say, episodes one through 40.

00:01:02Marc:I mean, we're heading into our 50th show in a couple of shows here.

00:01:07Marc:I mean, I think this week.

00:01:09Marc:I think Thursday might be our 50th show.

00:01:11Marc:It's not a milestone, but it's a lot of shows, and we're very proud of it.

00:01:16Marc:Brendan McDonald and I have been working very hard on this, and we certainly want to thank all our guests and performers.

00:01:21Marc:I mean, what am I doing?

00:01:23Marc:It's like, what am I, accepting an award?

00:01:26Marc:We're working here.

00:01:27Marc:That's what we're doing.

00:01:28Marc:One thing I wanted to do that I don't usually do, and I want to do it at the beginning of the show because I'll forget to do it.

00:01:33Marc:Because when it comes down to really publicizing myself or getting people out to see me, I forget.

00:01:38Marc:You can psychoanalyze that.

00:01:41Marc:You can think it's some interior inside job of self-sabotage, but I'm going to do it right now.

00:01:48Marc:I want to give you some March dates.

00:01:50Marc:I don't know where you are, but I'm just going to run these by you in case I'm nearby.

00:01:54Marc:You can travel or come down and say hi, wear your what the fuck t-shirts.

00:01:59Marc:I'd love to see you at the shows.

00:02:01Marc:So let's go over a couple of March dates in March, the 4th, 5th, and 6th.

00:02:04Marc:I'll be at the Palms in Vegas, March 11th, 12th, and 13th, Glasgow, Scotland.

00:02:10Marc:So if you can't make the Palms in Vegas show, just go over to Scotland and I'll be at the Glasgow Comedy Festival.

00:02:17Marc:March 21st, Cleveland, Ohio at the Grog Shop.

00:02:20Marc:March 22nd, the Black Cat in Washington, D.C.

00:02:24Marc:And March 25th, 26th, 27th at the Funny Bone in Bloomington, Indiana.

00:02:31Marc:So I'm going to be running around.

00:02:32Marc:I'm going to Scotland again.

00:02:34Marc:Now I'm all concerned because I know there's video of me in Australia talking about Scotland in not the greatest way because I did not have a good time there.

00:02:45Marc:I don't travel abroad well.

00:02:47Marc:And it sort of makes me think about it.

00:02:49Marc:Why don't I?

00:02:50Marc:What is it about me?

00:02:51Marc:Because I certainly like...

00:02:53Marc:I think I like going other places.

00:02:56Marc:I think it's very interesting to go other places.

00:02:59Marc:I don't socialize that well.

00:03:01Marc:I end up wandering around by myself too much.

00:03:04Marc:Scotland was a bust because I was there for 30 days and it wasn't a good time.

00:03:08Marc:It wasn't Scotland's fault.

00:03:10Marc:I was in Australia for two weeks.

00:03:12Marc:I was miserable, but it wasn't Australia's fault.

00:03:14Marc:I had other things going on in my mind and heart.

00:03:17Marc:You bring your baggage with you wherever you go.

00:03:20Marc:That's the old rap about you can't cure anything with a geographical cure.

00:03:25Marc:You can't run away from your problems.

00:03:28Marc:But that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it.

00:03:30Marc:I enjoyed touching wallabies.

00:03:32Marc:I enjoyed eating.

00:03:34Marc:I like to eat places.

00:03:36Marc:And I'm starting to realize, even though I'm critical of America on some levels, usually politically and culturally, there's part of me, the latest thing that I'm really hung up on is I'm getting to this point where I turn on the television, or I go to a comedy club, or I go to a movie, and I literally have this visceral reaction where I'm thinking, haven't we been entertained enough?

00:04:02Marc:Haven't we been entertained enough?

00:04:04Marc:Why are we so entitled to fucking entertainment all the time?

00:04:08Marc:Now, I know some of you listen to me because I'm entertaining, but I get to this point where it's like, aren't we just continuing the problem, buttressing our denial, avoiding the realities of where we are in the world?

00:04:18Marc:Doesn't everybody realize that every day is judgment day at this point in time?

00:04:23Marc:Every day, time is precious.

00:04:25Marc:Time is running out.

00:04:27Marc:But it's just how much of our lives do we have to entertain away?

00:04:29Marc:I keep coming back around to this point where it's like, what are we, children?

00:04:32Marc:And then I think like, well, get out and do something.

00:04:35Marc:Go travel.

00:04:36Marc:Where the hell am I going to go?

00:04:38Marc:And then I start thinking, I love America.

00:04:41Marc:I do love America.

00:04:42Marc:America is amazing.

00:04:43Marc:There's a lot of great things about America.

00:04:45Marc:And it resonated with me so much yesterday because I'm having people over for dinner and I don't usually have people over for dinner.

00:04:53Marc:I don't have a reason.

00:04:54Marc:You know, usually that's something you do when you're married because then you're like, let's have other married people over for dinner.

00:04:59Marc:Single people.

00:04:59Marc:I don't have so many people over for dinner.

00:05:01Marc:Because then you end up having married people over dinner and you feel like an idiot.

00:05:05Marc:I'm glad all my married friends.

00:05:06Marc:I got to invite the couple.

00:05:07Marc:I got to invite him and his wife and her and her husband.

00:05:10Marc:And then you're all alone.

00:05:12Marc:But it just so happens that my manager, who happens to be British, it's not necessary for the story.

00:05:16Marc:She's coming over with a woman, a writer, and the woman I'm dating is coming over.

00:05:21Marc:and we're going to have dinner, and I decide I'll make a tagine.

00:05:24Marc:I've talked about tagines before.

00:05:26Marc:I talked about breaking a tagine that someone bought me, and now I wanted to make a tagine because I like the Moroccan food thing.

00:05:33Marc:So then I end up going to Super King, which I've mentioned on this show briefly.

00:05:37Marc:Super King is this colossal supermarket, but it's not a clean, pretty, happy supermarket.

00:05:43Marc:It is a supermarket that seems to cater to

00:05:45Marc:to all the different ethnic groups in the Los Angeles area.

00:05:49Marc:I mean, it's mind blowing and everything's a nickel, but it reminds me of Queens where you get these amazing deals.

00:05:55Marc:Like I saw a 50 gallon, I must've been at least a 25 gallon tub of tahini and it was cheap, but there's just no way I'm going to get through that.

00:06:04Marc:It doesn't matter how much hummus I make.

00:06:07Marc:But the point I'm trying to make is when I have people coming over, I want to try some new cooking things.

00:06:11Marc:I want to have a reason to make things.

00:06:15Marc:So I decide I'm going to make this tagine.

00:06:17Marc:And then I decide, well, I want to make this Moroccan hot sauce that I had once in my life.

00:06:21Marc:So I do a little research.

00:06:22Marc:I find the recipe.

00:06:23Marc:I find the ingredients.

00:06:24Marc:And then I decide I've got a cabbage.

00:06:27Marc:Sitting in my refrigerator that I bought at the farmer's market last week.

00:06:30Marc:And I'm like thinking, well, I was going to make that Second Avenue deli coleslaw, but maybe I'll make something Moroccan.

00:06:36Marc:So I just go on the Internet.

00:06:37Marc:I go on Google.

00:06:38Marc:I Google Moroccan cabbage.

00:06:40Marc:And sure enough, next thing you know, I'm watching a video of a Moroccan woman preparing some sort of cabbage dish.

00:06:45Marc:And I'm watching her going, hello, my name is Gia.

00:06:48Marc:Welcome to Gia's Moroccan Kitchen.

00:06:51Marc:And then, like, all of a sudden, I'm like, I can make that.

00:06:53Marc:That looks okay.

00:06:54Marc:I wonder if I can pull it off.

00:06:55Marc:And I'm mashing cabbage.

00:06:56Marc:She's like, you must mash the cabbage with the wooden fork.

00:06:59Marc:And I never wouldn't fork, but it doesn't matter.

00:07:01Marc:I used a food processor.

00:07:03Marc:Look, I don't need to do it the ancient way.

00:07:05Marc:And I start judging myself where I'm making the cabbage.

00:07:08Marc:And I'm thinking...

00:07:09Marc:You know, if I serve this to a Moroccan family, they'd probably say that my mother makes it better.

00:07:14Marc:And then I'm thinking, who the fuck are you talking to?

00:07:18Marc:I mean, taste it.

00:07:19Marc:See if it tastes good.

00:07:20Marc:I'm not having Moroccan people over who are going to say that you don't make this mashed cabbage like my mom made it in Morocco.

00:07:28Marc:I mean, what the fuck is wrong with me?

00:07:30Marc:But...

00:07:30Marc:I made the cabbage.

00:07:31Marc:I made this hot sauce that was spectacular.

00:07:34Marc:You know, you had to soak red chilies, two different types of chili peppers, add caraway seeds and coriander and cumin and garlic.

00:07:40Marc:And you make it into a paste and then you coat it with olive oil.

00:07:43Marc:And it looks like it came out good.

00:07:45Marc:The point being...

00:07:46Marc:The amazing thing about America and the thing that I love about America is I can go to Super King and mingle with the world, a world of people I don't know.

00:07:55Marc:I don't know where everybody's from.

00:07:56Marc:I don't know where their roots are.

00:08:00Marc:I see their different types of breads.

00:08:01Marc:It's amazing just to walk past 100 different kinds of sausages and go, what the fuck do they do with that?

00:08:08Marc:And that's not being condescending.

00:08:09Marc:It's like it looks weird.

00:08:11Marc:Maybe it's good.

00:08:12Marc:I don't know.

00:08:12Marc:It doesn't mean that I'm going to learn what they do with it.

00:08:14Marc:But I like the community feeling of a bunch of different cultures coming together to shop in one place to buy food.

00:08:21Marc:And there's something uniquely American about that.

00:08:23Marc:There's a tolerance to it.

00:08:24Marc:There's a curiosity to it.

00:08:26Marc:But why don't I want to go to Morocco?

00:08:29Marc:I mean, I do in my mind, but I'm afraid.

00:08:33Marc:I'm afraid.

00:08:33Marc:What's going to happen to me in Morocco?

00:08:35Marc:Is Morocco safe?

00:08:36Marc:I mean, what happens in Morocco?

00:08:37Marc:I mean, it seems pretty exotic, but it might be a little dangerous.

00:08:40Marc:And then people are like, don't worry about it.

00:08:42Marc:You go, you get on the thing and you buy a ticket to the place and then you just eat and then you come home and it's very nice.

00:08:49Marc:You swim at the thing.

00:08:50Marc:I mean, it's that simple.

00:08:51Marc:I just got to make the jump to go.

00:08:53Marc:I have this aversion.

00:08:55Marc:I get I'm one of these people you would think.

00:08:58Marc:Because of the way I talk and how critical I am of certain elements in this country, the government and certain types of people here, you know, why wouldn't I want to just get the fuck out and go somewhere else?

00:09:11Marc:Because I'm afraid.

00:09:12Marc:And it seems like a lot of work.

00:09:14Marc:And I don't know where to go because I've been to Hawaii.

00:09:18Marc:I like Hawaii, but that's still America.

00:09:21Marc:I've been to Spain.

00:09:21Marc:I've been to France.

00:09:22Marc:I've been to Italy, which I loved.

00:09:25Marc:And then I start thinking like Russia would be interesting.

00:09:27Marc:I have roots in Russia.

00:09:28Marc:My people come from Russia.

00:09:30Marc:I would like to go to St.

00:09:31Marc:Petersburg.

00:09:32Marc:I'd like to check that out.

00:09:34Marc:I'd love to go to India, but that's frightening for all kinds of bacterial reasons.

00:09:38Marc:And I don't know.

00:09:39Marc:But I got to just rise above it and quit being a frightened American.

00:09:44Marc:And then people say like, you know, they're taking our freedoms away.

00:09:47Marc:Are you fucking out of your mind?

00:09:50Marc:Are you out of your fucking mind?

00:09:52Marc:You should get out of your mind and then realize how much freedom you have.

00:09:57Marc:I mean, when I hear people say like, it's coming down, we're all going to be marked, we're going to be coded, we're going to be watched by spaceships, we're going to be tagged.

00:10:06Marc:We have a freedom of mind in America and we can get into a car and listen to whatever music we want, go everywhere, wherever the hell we want to go.

00:10:13Marc:We have the freedom to make our own choices about how we want to live our lives and what we want to do with our lives.

00:10:18Marc:People want to sit around and complain and be paranoid and they start putting together big reasons why we're all fucked.

00:10:26Marc:I love America.

00:10:29Marc:I love getting in my car.

00:10:31Marc:I like going to Super King and watching Armenian people fight over food and watching Russian people buy food and watching the Mexican community buy food and watching Ukrainians and Egyptians buy food.

00:10:43Marc:I feel like we're all there.

00:10:44Marc:I wish we could all just stay there and take turns cooking maybe.

00:10:48Marc:I hope this Moroccan food is good that I made.

00:10:51Marc:I have a guest that really, he's coming up here.

00:10:54Marc:Kumail Nanjiani is a comedian who grew up in Pakistan, has lived here for a while, and I'm looking forward to talking to him about what that's like.

00:11:04Marc:The immigrants' experience in America, I mean, we should all...

00:11:08Marc:be as grateful and excited as immigrants every day in this country.

00:11:11Marc:Seriously, for all your complaints and all your bitching, I'll be honest with you.

00:11:16Marc:I'd rather go to Morocco.

00:11:17Marc:I'd rather visit Pakistan than some states in this country at this point in time because I don't see much difference.

00:11:23Marc:And I'm not talking about the type of ethnicity.

00:11:26Marc:I'm talking about the narrow-mindedness and the control of

00:11:30Marc:and the ostracization of people based on ideology.

00:11:34Marc:Happens here, happens there.

00:11:37Marc:Obviously, it's a little better here because you can still go to the supermarket and stuff.

00:11:42Marc:Barnes & Noble, maybe.

00:11:43Marc:Even if you're surrounded by idiots, you can always find a little pocket of freedom.

00:11:49Marc:So Kamal is here, and let's get to talking to him because I have a feeling this is going to be a very compelling and interesting interview.

00:11:56Marc:But before I do that...

00:11:59Marc:Pow!

00:12:01Marc:Wow, did I just shit my pants.

00:12:12Marc:I got an email today.

00:12:14Marc:I'm just going to bring this up because it was interesting.

00:12:19Marc:It was just coincidental.

00:12:20Marc:And I'll tell you exactly what the exchange was.

00:12:23Marc:I get an email from a guy named Amar.

00:12:28Marc:I guess that's an Indian name.

00:12:29Marc:A-M-A-R.

00:12:30Guest 1:It could be Indian or Pakistani.

00:12:32Guest 1:Hindu or Muslim.

00:12:33Marc:That's right.

00:12:33Marc:Okay, so then at the end of the email, he says...

00:12:39Marc:People complain about not enough black people on your show, but how about Indians?

00:12:44Marc:Where's the love for brown subcontinental second generation immigrants?

00:12:48Marc:I suggest you get...

00:12:49Marc:Hari Kondabolu on your show.

00:12:52Marc:If you can't get Hari, he's tough to get.

00:12:58Marc:You can get Aziz, which is just so much easier.

00:13:00Guest 1:Easier to get Aziz, yeah, definitely.

00:13:02Marc:So I wrote back, I said, I like Hari, he's not out here too often.

00:13:05Marc:Kamal Nanjiani, am I saying it right?

00:13:08Marc:Close enough.

00:13:08Marc:Just say it.

00:13:09Marc:Nanjiani.

00:13:11Marc:Kamal Nanjiani.

00:13:12Marc:Perfect.

00:13:13Marc:Okay, is coming by today.

00:13:15Marc:Pakistan, you okay with that, pal?

00:13:18Marc:And then I get back in caps, death to Paki's.

00:13:21Marc:Really?

00:13:22Marc:Yeah.

00:13:22Marc:Death to Paki's.

00:13:23Marc:Yeah.

00:13:24Marc:And then I wrote, hmm, I'll bring that up with him.

00:13:26Guest 1:I like somebody who's like forward enough to want racial diversity on your show.

00:13:31Guest 1:Right.

00:13:32Guest 1:But draw the line at Pakistanis, you know?

00:13:34Marc:Well, I'm assuming that he's Indian.

00:13:37Guest 1:Yeah.

00:13:37Marc:And from what I understand, there's some tension there.

00:13:40Guest 1:Yeah, there has been historically.

00:13:42Marc:Yeah, and the original idea of Pakistan was to create a Muslim state, no?

00:13:48Guest 1:Yeah, I think it was the first country made purely for religious reasons.

00:13:52Marc:Okay, but it was originally part of India.

00:13:56Marc:It was all one big country.

00:13:57Guest 1:Yeah, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh were all big ones.

00:14:00Marc:Right, so then we get this kind of crap.

00:14:02Marc:Yeah.

00:14:03Marc:Do you find that in your life?

00:14:04Marc:I mean, like, I know Hari Khandabolu.

00:14:05Marc:He's a funny guy.

00:14:07Marc:He does an Indian version of me, which I find flattering.

00:14:10Yeah.

00:14:10Marc:Yeah, I know Aziz, kind of.

00:14:12Marc:I thought he was Pakistani, though.

00:14:14Guest 1:No, Aziz is Muslim, but he's Indian.

00:14:17Marc:Okay, let's not get religious.

00:14:18Marc:But I'm just saying, is there tension outside of religion between Pakistanis and Indians?

00:14:24Marc:Set aside the Muslim-Hindi thing.

00:14:26Guest 1:Yeah.

00:14:27Guest 1:Hold on, I'm fixing the heater.

00:14:44Marc:Okay.

00:14:45Marc:Well, I find that they both seem to be problematic for me, but not in the same way they might be problematic for you.

00:14:51Marc:Just on a global level, it seems Pakistan is a bit chaotic.

00:14:55Marc:We don't really know what's going to happen.

00:14:56Marc:India, very poor, but doing a lot of things with the...

00:15:01Marc:making great progress in a lot of different areas.

00:15:03Marc:It's not a problem to me, but there seems to be a fairly profound class struggle there.

00:15:09Marc:I'm not going to get into it.

00:15:10Guest 1:There's class struggles both in Pakistan and India.

00:15:12Guest 1:I mean, the disparity of wealth in both those countries is huge.

00:15:15Marc:Well, you and I have had our issues.

00:15:18Marc:but they have nothing to do with ethnicity no we just personally had issues I don't think it's issues I mean you came up to me I didn't know who you were you said you're a big fan then you watched me and then I watched you and then all of a sudden I thought you got attitude but then you said you were just nervous and now now you're out here

00:15:34Guest 1:Yeah, you're a very intimidating guy, especially because, you know, I mean, I watched a lot of you, and I was a big fan forever.

00:15:41Guest 1:Did I ruin that?

00:15:42Guest 1:No, no, no, no, no, you didn't.

00:15:43Guest 1:But, you know, I think I was just a little intimidated.

00:15:48Marc:Well, the funny thing is, the first time I saw you, I was like, I don't quite get it.

00:15:52Marc:And then I watched you.

00:15:53Marc:You're very funny.

00:15:54Marc:You know, you tell stories.

00:15:55Marc:You're very good at it.

00:15:56Marc:You're smart.

00:15:56Marc:You use good language.

00:15:58Marc:You're very personal.

00:15:58Marc:And I'm a fan, so can we set it all aside?

00:16:01Marc:It's all gone.

00:16:02Guest 1:Do you feel better?

00:16:02Guest 1:Yeah, yeah, it's been gone for a while.

00:16:03Marc:So, all right, so it's been gone before?

00:16:05Guest 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:16:06Marc:So now you're from Pakistan originally, but you grew up here.

00:16:10Guest 1:No, I grew up, I was 18 when I moved here.

00:16:13Marc:That's pretty recent.

00:16:14Marc:How old are you now?

00:16:15Marc:31.

00:16:15Marc:Well, not that recent, but most of your formative years were in Pakistan.

00:16:19Marc:Definitely.

00:16:20Marc:So you left, your family left.

00:16:22Guest 1:I left, I came alone.

00:16:24Guest 1:I was 18.

00:16:25Marc:You had enough or?

00:16:26Guest 1:I was like, fuck this place.

00:16:30Guest 1:I was like, it's so hot and poor over here.

00:16:32Guest 1:I'm hungry all the time.

00:16:33Guest 1:No, it was, you know, there was always the plan.

00:16:35Guest 1:Like my mom was, you know, I went to an English speaking school because the plan was always just get me out of Pakistan.

00:16:41Marc:Right.

00:16:42Marc:For an education or for good?

00:16:43Marc:For good.

00:16:44Marc:For good.

00:16:45Marc:Why?

00:16:46Marc:Because they sensed that it was not going well there?

00:16:48Marc:Or, I mean, do they not?

00:16:50Guest 1:Yeah, the burning cars were a good hint.

00:16:52Guest 1:Really?

00:16:52Marc:You wake up, there's burning cars.

00:16:54Marc:Maybe we should go.

00:16:57Guest 1:Well, you know, it's weird because all you hear about Karachi here is negative stuff.

00:17:01Guest 1:Like, we only make the news if we're doing something terrible, you know?

00:17:04Marc:All right, well, talk about some good stuff.

00:17:05Marc:I know there's some fine breads.

00:17:08Guest 1:Our food is fucking amazing.

00:17:09Guest 1:The best.

00:17:10Guest 1:It's the best.

00:17:10Guest 1:It's the best food.

00:17:11Marc:Does your mom actually have a clay oven?

00:17:13Marc:No, she doesn't.

00:17:14Marc:Then how does she make none?

00:17:16Guest 1:She buys it from people who have clay ovens.

00:17:19Guest 1:She doesn't make them herself.

00:17:20Marc:Does she make anything by herself?

00:17:22Guest 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:22Guest 1:She's an amazing cook.

00:17:23Marc:Some of the chickpea dishes or the lamb dishes?

00:17:24Guest 1:Yeah, she's an amazing cook.

00:17:25Marc:Just the bread she outsources.

00:17:27Guest 1:She outsources the bread, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:29Guest 1:But rice, she makes rice on her own, dosas.

00:17:32Guest 1:I mean, she's an amazing cook.

00:17:33Guest 1:She makes dosas on her own, so she's got that pan.

00:17:36Guest 1:She's got that one, yeah.

00:17:37Guest 1:Well, that's like a wok, like a flat thing, you know?

00:17:39Guest 1:Right, yeah.

00:17:39Guest 1:Clay oven, you need infrastructure and shit.

00:17:42Marc:Yeah, I was thinking about getting one, but I'm not even Indian or Pakistani.

00:17:45Marc:Even though I like the food a lot, I think it would be extravagant.

00:17:48Marc:No, it's great.

00:17:49Marc:It's great food.

00:17:50Marc:Yeah.

00:17:50Marc:So, okay.

00:17:51Marc:So, tell me some other good things about Pakistan.

00:17:53Marc:Is it pretty?

00:17:54Marc:Not Karachi.

00:17:56Marc:Karachi's not pretty.

00:17:57Marc:But like the country, do you like, let's take a ride to and enjoy life?

00:18:01Guest 1:Well, you'd have to go pretty far, yeah.

00:18:02Guest 1:To where?

00:18:03Guest 1:Like up north, Kashmir, around there is very pretty.

00:18:05Guest 1:But, you know, I mean, part of our problem- Is that a day trip or is it- No, that's, you know, you got to fly there.

00:18:10Marc:Can you get there in a car?

00:18:11Guest 1:It would take you a long time.

00:18:13Guest 1:Really?

00:18:14Guest 1:Yeah, you got to fly there.

00:18:15Guest 1:Well, I mean, and part of the reason we're so poor is that it's not very green.

00:18:19Guest 1:I mean, a big chunk of Pakistan is desert, and then it's a mountainous region, so it's not that pretty.

00:18:24Marc:I hear it's very easy for the Taliban to hide in.

00:18:27Yeah.

00:18:29Marc:Yeah, it's very easy.

00:18:31Marc:We've got some great nooks and crannies.

00:18:32Marc:It's just teeming with Taliban and all the nooks and crannies of the Pakistani countryside.

00:18:36Guest 1:You know, the Northwest is teeming with Afghanis.

00:18:40Guest 1:I mean, we had guns.

00:18:41Guest 1:You know, when I went to school, when I went to high school, there would be kids who'd have bodyguards with AK-47s.

00:18:47Guest 1:And they would come to school with these bodyguards with AK-47s.

00:18:51Guest 1:And these are all guns.

00:18:52Guest 1:We call them Klasnikovs.

00:18:54Guest 1:These were all guns from back when Afghanistan was fighting.

00:18:57Marc:Okay, let's go back to these kids.

00:18:58Marc:Which kids specifically?

00:19:00Marc:Was that just something, a service that some parents could afford?

00:19:03Guest 1:Yeah, I mean, like I said, the disparity of wealth.

00:19:05Marc:So the guys would sit there with the guns next to them at the desk?

00:19:08Guest 1:No, no, no.

00:19:09Guest 1:They would drop them off and then pick them up at the end of the day.

00:19:12Guest 1:And these were a lot of kids of politicians and ministers and stuff like that.

00:19:16Marc:Yeah, it always seems that Pakistan is about to be in big trouble.

00:19:21Marc:Or it's in big trouble, pretty perpetually in big trouble.

00:19:23Guest 1:Yeah, it's always up and down.

00:19:25Guest 1:There's some good weeks.

00:19:27Marc:Good weeks?

00:19:28Guest 1:We get good weeks, a couple good weeks a year.

00:19:30Marc:So where did you end up first when he came to the States?

00:19:33Guest 1:I went to Iowa.

00:19:35Guest 1:I left Karachi and I landed in Des Moines, Iowa.

00:19:37Marc:There's no nooks and crannies in Iowa.

00:19:39Guest 1:No, it's just flat.

00:19:39Guest 1:It's very flat, yeah.

00:19:41Marc:But I guess the Taliban could hide in the cornfields.

00:19:43Marc:They didn't come with me.

00:19:44Guest 1:Or the pig farms.

00:19:45Guest 1:They stayed back there.

00:19:46Guest 1:Oh, they did?

00:19:46Guest 1:You didn't bring them?

00:19:47Guest 1:What are they going to do in Iowa?

00:19:48Guest 1:What are they going to bomb?

00:19:49Guest 1:I thought, did you bring a couple of guys with Kalashnikovs to protect you in Iowa?

00:19:53Guest 1:No, they couldn't get through the metal detector.

00:19:55Marc:So it was your choice?

00:19:56Marc:You were like, I'm going to the States, going to Iowa.

00:19:59Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:20:00Marc:Where the fuck does that come from?

00:20:01Marc:Why would you do that?

00:20:03Guest 1:I have nothing against Iowa other than who goes there.

00:20:06Guest 1:Well, you've clearly never lived there.

00:20:08Guest 1:That's why you have nothing against it.

00:20:09Guest 1:No, I love that.

00:20:10Guest 1:Well, you know what?

00:20:10Guest 1:It was great for me because if I go from Pakistan, if I'm going from Karachi to New York, nobody's going to give a shit about me.

00:20:16Guest 1:Not the Pakistani New York, but you go to Iowa, there's not that many people around.

00:20:20Guest 1:You can slowly get used to the cultural stuff.

00:20:23Marc:Which cultural stuff would that be in Iowa?

00:20:25Guest 1:I mean, everything's different.

00:20:27Guest 1:Just white people, you mean?

00:20:29Guest 1:No.

00:20:29Guest 1:I mean, everything's different.

00:20:30Guest 1:No, I know that.

00:20:31Marc:I understand that.

00:20:32Marc:But is it a good representation of the states?

00:20:35Marc:It's a good stepping stone.

00:20:37Marc:Entry level.

00:20:38Guest 1:Yeah, it's a gateway to the states.

00:20:38Guest 1:It's a gateway to the states.

00:20:41Marc:the states well it's good so then you're in the weird position the awkward position to having had to leave one country and then getting to that same feeling with the state like I've got to get out oh yeah definitely what spurred that on what was the exile from Iowa about

00:20:57Guest 1:Well, it was mostly about getting out of Iowa.

00:20:59Guest 1:I mean, I love Iowa, but there's nothing there.

00:21:01Guest 1:I mean, what are you going to do after I graduate from school?

00:21:03Guest 1:And I wanted to pursue comedy.

00:21:04Guest 1:Yeah, I went to school.

00:21:05Guest 1:You went to college here.

00:21:06Guest 1:Where'd you go to college?

00:21:06Guest 1:It's called Grinnell College.

00:21:07Guest 1:It's a tiny school in like a town of 9,000 people.

00:21:10Marc:Were you the only Pakistani?

00:21:12Guest 1:No, there were like three of us, I think.

00:21:14Marc:That must have been rough.

00:21:15Guest 1:Did you like the other two?

00:21:16Guest 1:We're competing for attention.

00:21:18Guest 1:Yeah, they were fine, I guess.

00:21:20Guest 1:Did you guys speak Pakistani?

00:21:21Guest 1:One of them was named Ammar, that's why.

00:21:24Marc:Did you speak your native language?

00:21:25Marc:What is your native language?

00:21:26Marc:Urdu.

00:21:27Marc:It's spoken the same as Hindi, but it's a different script.

00:21:30Marc:What do you mean a different script?

00:21:32Guest 1:So, you know, it's the opposite.

00:21:34Guest 1:So like English and Spanish is the same script, but different languages spoken differently.

00:21:38Guest 1:Hindi and Urdu are the opposite.

00:21:40Guest 1:So they're spoken the same, but when you write them down, they look completely different.

00:21:44Guest 1:So I can talk to somebody who speaks Hindi, but I can't read what he says.

00:21:47Guest 1:But if he wrote you a letter, you'd be lost.

00:21:49Guest 1:Yeah, it would look like squiggles.

00:21:50Marc:Why'd they design it like that?

00:21:51Marc:That seems ridiculous.

00:21:52Guest 1:I don't know.

00:21:52Guest 1:They use a Sanskrit script or whatever.

00:21:54Marc:Yeah, but who made that choice?

00:21:55Marc:Why did they have to create a difference at that level if you're both speaking the same language?

00:21:59Guest 1:I don't know, man.

00:22:01Marc:You haven't speculated about this?

00:22:03Guest 1:No.

00:22:03Guest 1:Come on, you're a thinker.

00:22:04Guest 1:I've put no thought into that.

00:22:05Guest 1:Why'd they do that to you?

00:22:06Guest 1:I've put no thought into that.

00:22:07Marc:All right, so you and the other two Pakistani guys are in Iowa speaking, what is it?

00:22:13Guest 1:Urdu.

00:22:13Guest 1:Urdu, yeah.

00:22:14Marc:And people are like, look at them.

00:22:16Marc:They're interesting.

00:22:18Guest 1:It is true.

00:22:19Guest 1:Did white girls sort of like seek you out?

00:22:23Guest 1:Well, the weird thing was it was so like, there's so much like liberal white guilt that people didn't want to acknowledge race at all.

00:22:28Guest 1:So it was almost like people go out of their way to not ask me about Pakistan.

00:22:33Marc:Really?

00:22:34Guest 1:Yeah.

00:22:34Guest 1:And you know, I mean.

00:22:35Guest 1:Isn't that offensive in its own way?

00:22:37Guest 1:It is.

00:22:38Guest 1:I mean, and you know, that was an attitude that I had for a while, like doing standup was I wouldn't talk about being Pakistani.

00:22:45Guest 1:And then I sort of worked into finally being able to talk about it.

00:22:50Marc:Like what was the first, what was your, your first breakthrough surprise?

00:22:55Marc:I'm a Pakistani joke.

00:22:57Guest 1:Um, I don't even, oh, there was one joke, stupid, where I go, people always want me to do ethnic jokes.

00:23:04Guest 1:So I wrote this ethnic joke and then I just talk in Urdu for like a couple minutes.

00:23:07Guest 1:That was like the first one.

00:23:09Marc:I'd like to hear a little Urdu.

00:23:11Guest 1:What do you want me to say?

00:23:12Marc:I'd like you to say that Mark Maron's podcast is really spectacular.

00:23:18Guest 1:Most of those words are not even going to be translated.

00:23:21Marc:Okay, then why don't you say, this is a very nice garage.

00:23:24Guest 1:Garage?

00:23:26Guest 1:Garage.

00:23:28Marc:So you just add he at the end?

00:23:30Guest 1:No.

00:23:30Guest 1:There's more before garage too.

00:23:33Marc:Coffee.

00:23:34Guest 1:Coffee.

00:23:36Guest 1:Very.

00:23:37Marc:Very.

00:23:37Guest 1:Is good.

00:23:39Guest 1:Okay.

00:23:40Guest 1:Garage.

00:23:41Guest 1:Garage.

00:23:42Guest 1:It's garage.

00:23:43Marc:And then he.

00:23:44Guest 1:He is is.

00:23:45Marc:Oh, so you threw the is after the garage.

00:23:47Marc:no i didn't just throw it there that's how we do it no but i i thought you were just like like you're adding like head to the end of garage because that's what you do when the word doesn't exist in your language no no no we don't do that we just say we just say the word we just say the word mark maron keep podcast hey hey hey do you always throw is at the end yeah i guess so yeah i have no aptitude for languages do you speak any other languages

00:24:14Guest 1:No, I tried to learn Spanish because I thought I'd probably have an aptitude and I was terrible at it.

00:24:18Guest 1:Really?

00:24:19Guest 1:I think it's just because I- Different script.

00:24:21Guest 1:Speaking since I was a kid, you know?

00:24:23Guest 1:Yeah, I could read Spanish.

00:24:24Marc:How'd you get the English under your belt?

00:24:27Guest 1:I was like five or something when I started learning English.

00:24:29Guest 1:I remember actually the day I started learning English in school, they were showing us a picture of a tiger and they were like, tiger.

00:24:36Guest 1:Yeah.

00:24:36Guest 1:I remember being pissed off.

00:24:37Guest 1:Like, I already know how to say this word.

00:24:40Guest 1:Why do I need a whole new way of saying this word?

00:24:42Guest 1:What was the word that you knew?

00:24:43Guest 1:Cheetah, which is, you know.

00:24:46Marc:That's a different animal.

00:24:48Guest 1:No, that's what we call tiger.

00:24:49Marc:You're wrong.

00:24:51Marc:That's what we call it.

00:24:51Guest 1:What do you call a cheetah?

00:24:54Guest 1:Tiger.

00:24:58Guest 1:Okay.

00:24:58Guest 1:Yeah.

00:24:59Guest 1:That's a weird language.

00:25:00Marc:So now let's talk about the problems.

00:25:02Marc:Well, I think it's an interesting story that you were performing a one-man show.

00:25:10Guest 1:Uh-huh.

00:25:11Guest 1:Can we talk about this?

00:25:12Guest 1:We can talk about it a little bit.

00:25:13Marc:In a general way?

00:25:14Guest 1:In a general way, yeah.

00:25:15Marc:That you were performing the one-man show in New York about your family.

00:25:21Marc:What was it about?

00:25:21Guest 1:About me.

00:25:22Marc:It was sort of- It was about your personal religious struggle.

00:25:26Guest 1:Yeah.

00:25:27Marc:With your heritage.

00:25:30Guest 1:It was about me growing up in Pakistan moving here.

00:25:33Marc:Right.

00:25:33Guest 1:That was basically what it was.

00:25:34Marc:And it was a good show.

00:25:35Marc:Got a lot of critical acclaim.

00:25:39Guest 1:I was proud of it.

00:25:40Guest 1:Okay.

00:25:40Guest 1:I liked it.

00:25:41Guest 1:So why'd you stop doing it?

00:25:43Guest 1:Many reasons.

00:25:45Guest 1:One, you know, it felt weird.

00:25:47Guest 1:You get very confessional on stage, but for me it was really weird because it was this really personal story that I wanted to tell that was like a big, you know, I wanted to do it.

00:25:55Guest 1:It was like a personal therapy thing to articulate these things.

00:25:58Guest 1:But when I was on stage and I would do the show afterwards, I felt like...

00:26:01Guest 1:All these people thought they knew me and they would come up and be like, oh, your parents now.

00:26:05Guest 1:And that kind of would bug me.

00:26:07Guest 1:I just, on stage.

00:26:09Guest 1:You used to do radio.

00:26:10Guest 1:Jesus Christ.

00:26:11Guest 1:I was very vulnerable.

00:26:12Marc:Yeah.

00:26:13Marc:But you do that more now.

00:26:14Marc:I mean, maybe the show sort of broke you open to that.

00:26:18Guest 1:It did.

00:26:18Marc:But this, like, you know, so you felt the way I feel after most sets.

00:26:21Marc:Like last night I walked away feeling like, why did I just rape myself on stage?

00:26:25Marc:Why did I divulge?

00:26:26Guest 1:Well, it's not as intense as when you go on stage, but I try and, you know, I want to give the audience a little piece of who I am, but there are certain things that I, you know, what's so amazing about you is that you can go up there and basically, it seems to me, really, really bare your soul, right?

00:26:44Guest 1:Yeah.

00:26:44Guest 1:That's part of what you want to do up there, right?

00:26:46Marc:Yeah, not the crying part.

00:26:47Guest 1:Not just without the tears.

00:26:50Marc:Well, I think that the... Like, I personally get tired of the language of comedy.

00:26:56Marc:And I've been tired of it a long time.

00:26:57Marc:I understand.

00:26:58Marc:I find that jokes are limiting.

00:27:00Marc:And I feel that a lot of times, as comics, we get up there and all of a sudden it's like, Hey, how's everybody doing?

00:27:05Marc:And we literally get on stage...

00:27:09Marc:And then limit ourselves to a tone, to a cadence, to a rhythm, to a structure that are jokes.

00:27:17Marc:I think my jokes happen organically.

00:27:19Marc:I do have structured jokes, but I don't structure them on paper.

00:27:22Marc:So what I began to feel was like, I think a lot of why people laugh at what I do is that it is just because it is real and it is confessional and it is a little uncomfortable.

00:27:33Marc:And I think that...

00:27:35Marc:In my mind, a good joke will always trump just about anything, but you can take a good joke.

00:27:39Marc:You can laugh at it because of a turn of phrase or a reference or a rhythm to it.

00:27:44Marc:You can repeat it.

00:27:45Marc:But to have the experience where that stuff gets pushed aside and you just are engaged and laughing because of a feeling.

00:27:53Marc:Right.

00:27:53Marc:To me, that that is very rewarding and not easy to repeat all the time.

00:27:57Marc:But but, you know, as I say, things more joke structure, as you know, it's most of my writing is done on stage and it develops over time.

00:28:05Marc:I have to say it up there first.

00:28:06Marc:It starts out confessional and disconcerting, maybe a little uncomfortable, but hopefully it'll evolve into something that is comfortable up there.

00:28:14Guest 1:Yeah, it's really impressive that you can do that.

00:28:16Marc:It's not a marketable skill, really.

00:28:19Guest 1:No, it is.

00:28:19Guest 1:It is.

00:28:20Guest 1:I mean, you had one-man shows that were very well regarded and reviewed and, you know, there were hits and everything.

00:28:25Guest 1:And I think, I mean, that's the interesting thing is that you can like, you know, all this, your darkest thoughts, you can articulate.

00:28:33Guest 1:Right.

00:28:33Guest 1:go on stage, make them relatable.

00:28:35Guest 1:Right, well I think everybody has them, there's a transparency to it.

00:28:38Marc:Obviously some of them are gonna be like, this guy's fucked up, and that's fine, so laugh at me, and be thankful you're not me.

00:28:43Guest 2:Right.

00:28:43Marc:Okay?

00:28:45Marc:But with your one man show, so you did this thing, revealing yourself, and your personal struggle, and your heritage,

00:28:51Marc:And it made you uncomfortable and people knew more about you.

00:28:54Marc:And also, I think as somebody who comes from another place, when people in this country see it, that liberal guilt kicks in as well.

00:29:00Marc:And they're like, they're concerned and they're excited that you shared this heritage with them.

00:29:04Marc:And they assume a certain intimacy with you that you found uncomfortable.

00:29:09Guest 1:They assume a certain intimacy.

00:29:10Guest 1:They also assume a certain, like, they generalize that then to everything.

00:29:14Guest 1:Because, you know...

00:29:15Guest 1:It was hard for me to communicate, you know, that this is my journey with the religious stuff and the cultural stuff.

00:29:23Guest 1:This is not how everybody feels.

00:29:24Guest 1:But whenever I do the show, people would sort of generalize that to everyone.

00:29:29Guest 1:And I...

00:29:31Guest 1:That was weird for me.

00:29:32Guest 1:And also I think the way the political situation right now is that Muslims sort of demonized and everything.

00:29:38Guest 1:I think my show came at a weird time for that too.

00:29:42Marc:Well, without getting yourself into trouble again somehow, because I know your sense of it about it, that from what I understand, you're saying that because of the way you handled the religious elements of your show, that you literally got threatened and censored.

00:30:00Guest 1:Yeah, not censored.

00:30:01Guest 1:I got emails and stuff and I got threatened.

00:30:04Marc:From people in Pakistan?

00:30:07Guest 1:Yeah, people in Pakistan.

00:30:08Marc:Would they be Taliban people?

00:30:13Guest 1:No, I don't know who specifically they were.

00:30:16Guest 1:But the problem is my last name is very specific.

00:30:19Guest 1:So I'm here and I feel pretty safe.

00:30:22Guest 1:But back there, my family...

00:30:26Guest 1:And I wouldn't want them to go through anything because of me.

00:30:29Guest 1:And then ultimately, my parents sort of asked me to not do the show.

00:30:34Guest 1:And it was a tough decision, but I sort of thought about it a lot.

00:30:39Guest 1:And I decided, you know, it's not just my story.

00:30:40Guest 1:It's their story as well.

00:30:42Guest 1:And if they don't want me to tell it, then maybe I don't have the right to tell it.

00:30:45Marc:You know, that's interesting because I don't I don't know if I necessarily agree with that, but I understand that you certainly don't want to carry the burden of getting somebody in trouble or hurt, you know, to to to share this story.

00:30:59Marc:But maybe at some point.

00:31:02Marc:If things change, maybe you will.

00:31:04Guest 1:Yeah.

00:31:04Guest 1:The other, I mean, there were so many things.

00:31:06Guest 1:Another thing was, you know, I'd written the show when I was at a specific point in my life.

00:31:11Guest 1:And then I was performing it up until about maybe two years after I wrote it.

00:31:15Guest 1:And I wasn't in that same place anymore.

00:31:17Guest 1:So it felt a little disingenuous to me.

00:31:19Guest 1:It felt a little insincere to me to keep doing the show when a lot of

00:31:24Marc:You'd work through it.

00:31:25Marc:You would work through the feelings.

00:31:27Guest 1:It just wasn't as urgent to me.

00:31:29Marc:Yeah, I have that stuff with my divorce show.

00:31:31Marc:But I find that sometimes when the distance comes, you can actually perform it better with less risk, personally.

00:31:39Marc:But obviously, it's a bigger picture with you.

00:31:41Marc:Now, do you find that some of this flack comes from the fact that Pakistan is, from what you're saying, a fairly...

00:31:51Marc:regimented and regulated religious state.

00:31:56Guest 1:Yeah, I mean, you know, we have sharia law, which is... Right, that you have no freedom.

00:32:00Guest 1:There is no separation of church and state.

00:32:03Guest 1:Like, that's not... So, if you are to question that...

00:32:07Marc:uh system it's punishable by death like saying anything against anything that's considered sacrilegious is punishable by death like they kill you that's what happened to salman rushdie they didn't kill him but they put a fatwa that's what that was yeah because what he wrote was construed as being so you were in a similar situation in a smaller way much much smaller way but it could have gotten worse

00:32:30Marc:yes certainly wow that is some heavy yeah i don't know how else to say that but i'm glad you have peace with it in the sense that you you had worked through whatever you need to work through and you decided it was a personal issue when you didn't want to take any more risks like that because there's part of me as a comic where and as an american you think like oh them man just do it yeah yeah yeah but we don't know what you were going you don't really realize i mean

00:32:54Guest 1:This is the thing Americans have.

00:32:55Guest 1:You have this like sense of security that's always there.

00:32:58Guest 1:You assume safety unless it's threatened.

00:33:01Guest 1:Whereas where I'm from, that's not – we don't have like a sense of security.

00:33:05Guest 1:We don't have that.

00:33:06Guest 1:Like some of my friends here were like, do it.

00:33:08Guest 1:You'll be fine.

00:33:08Guest 1:It's like, no, might not be fine.

00:33:10Guest 1:I mean, these are real, real issues.

00:33:13Marc:Yeah, it's not even – but the weird thing is is that not only do you not have a sense of personal security –

00:33:18Marc:uh where you're from but that that has legs that follows you oh man oh yeah that's the weird thing is like it's such tribal shit in the sense of like look you know we know your family lives here i mean that is old school oh you know very old school tribal yeah i mean stuff it's fucking terrifying yeah well these people i mean you know they think they're doing the right thing these are things that'll get them into heaven so it's not even

00:33:44Guest 1:They're not in their heads doing something bad.

00:33:47Guest 1:They're not bad guys.

00:33:47Guest 1:They're doing the Lord's work.

00:33:50Guest 1:You know, they're like soldiers.

00:33:52Marc:But I was under the impression that some of that is a misinterpretation.

00:33:57Marc:I mean, you know, we have Orthodox people.

00:33:59Marc:Jews are Orthodox.

00:34:01Marc:We have radical Christians.

00:34:02Marc:And I guess that there is a similarity.

00:34:05Marc:But it doesn't, you know, it just seems that they're a little more pliable.

00:34:11Marc:Even radical Christians and even Orthodox Jews.

00:34:13Marc:I mean, as Orthodox as Jews get, I still see them driving around the Lower East Side in their station wagons cruising for prostitutes.

00:34:21Guest 1:Really?

00:34:21Guest 1:Wow.

00:34:21Guest 1:Sure.

00:34:22Marc:There are exceptions made.

00:34:23Marc:There's more of a negotiation with God.

00:34:25Guest 1:There is.

00:34:26Guest 1:I think those religions maybe allow for more reinterpretation and stuff like that than...

00:34:33Guest 1:maybe at least the way that Islam is in Pakistan does.

00:34:36Guest 1:Because, you know, anytime you question something in the Quran or you try and reinterpret it, that can be construed as sacrilegious.

00:34:43Guest 1:And, you know, it's capital punishment.

00:34:46Guest 1:So it sort of stifles any dialogue you can have about it.

00:34:48Marc:So there's no chance of you taking the show to Pakistan?

00:34:51Guest 1:No.

00:34:53No.

00:34:53Guest 1:Oh, geez.

00:34:55Guest 1:No, I'd have to get a bunch of guys with AK-47s.

00:34:58Marc:Right, and they might not be on your side.

00:34:59Guest 1:They won't be on my side.

00:35:00Guest 1:Why would they be on my side?

00:35:02Marc:Yeah, you got to be careful in Pakistan.

00:35:03Marc:You just never knew when there was going to be a coup at your theater presentation.

00:35:07Guest 1:Yeah.

00:35:08Guest 1:No, I mean, it's such a...

00:35:12Guest 1:You know, there's always shit going on.

00:35:14Guest 1:We haven't had a government serve a full term since I was born.

00:35:19Guest 1:Yeah.

00:35:20Guest 1:What is a full?

00:35:21Guest 1:Four years.

00:35:22Marc:Isn't a full term there until you get shot?

00:35:24Guest 1:Yes, I guess many have.

00:35:26Guest 1:Many have.

00:35:27Marc:Or run away.

00:35:28Guest 1:Or blow up in a plane.

00:35:29Guest 1:Yeah, yeah.

00:35:30Guest 1:That happened.

00:35:31Marc:That's, I think, in the bylaws of the Constitution back then.

00:35:34Marc:Yeah, like, unless something happens.

00:35:36Marc:A full term ends when someone is assassinated.

00:35:39Guest 1:Well, I mean, Musharraf, they've tried to kill him like 90-something times.

00:35:43Marc:Yeah, he's like a cat.

00:35:44Guest 1:That was the thing.

00:35:45Guest 1:Like, you know when Benazir Bhutto, you know Benazir Bhutto, right?

00:35:47Guest 1:Sure.

00:35:47Guest 1:Like, when she killed, when she got killed, all these, like, you know, all the countries were issuing statements like France or whatever, and they were like, this is truly shocking.

00:35:56Guest 1:I'm like, really?

00:35:57Guest 1:Was it really shocking?

00:35:59Guest 1:They've tried to kill her over 100 times.

00:36:01Guest 1:Like, a female head of state in a Muslim nation gets killed.

00:36:05Guest 1:That's not that shocking.

00:36:06Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:36:07Marc:It's expected, sadly.

00:36:09Marc:Doft to hold.

00:36:10Marc:Yeah.

00:36:11Marc:Now you're in America and you've married an American woman.

00:36:14Marc:Mm-hmm.

00:36:14Marc:From where is she from?

00:36:15Guest 1:North Carolina.

00:36:16Marc:Not only an American woman, a Southern American woman.

00:36:20Guest 1:She is very Southern.

00:36:21Marc:And she has a Southern family.

00:36:22Guest 1:Uh-huh.

00:36:23Guest 1:Way Southern.

00:36:24Marc:Like, what are we talking?

00:36:24Marc:Civil War Southern?

00:36:25Marc:Like, how long has the family been here?

00:36:27Marc:Since the revolution?

00:36:29Guest 1:Yeah, probably.

00:36:29Guest 1:I mean, they've been around forever.

00:36:31Marc:Now, how was that first?

00:36:34Marc:Let's go visit my parents.

00:36:36Yeah.

00:36:37Guest 1:You know, it was great.

00:36:39Guest 1:I told my mom that I was dating this girl.

00:36:43Guest 1:And my mom obviously freaked out.

00:36:47Guest 1:There was a lot of crying and stuff.

00:36:48Guest 1:But then to her credit, my mom was very accepting of her when she realized that...

00:36:57Guest 1:I really love this moment, you know?

00:36:59Marc:Right.

00:37:00Guest 1:So it became about... So it became this thing, like, even though it's against, like, her religion and culturally, everything's against it.

00:37:05Guest 1:And, you know, our family, I'm sure people were talking about it behind her back and to her face.

00:37:11Guest 1:But it was really nice that ultimately my happiness is what was most important to her.

00:37:17Marc:So that's not punishable by death, that one?

00:37:20Marc:No.

00:37:20Marc:What's that punishable by?

00:37:21No.

00:37:21Guest 1:What?

00:37:23Guest 1:Marrying a white woman?

00:37:24Guest 1:Yeah.

00:37:24Guest 1:I think having sex out of wedlock is, you know, you whip, I don't think it's death, but you whip him.

00:37:30Guest 1:Oh no, stone to death.

00:37:32Marc:Stone to death.

00:37:32Marc:Just a woman though, right?

00:37:33Marc:The guy sort of like gets reprimanded.

00:37:36Guest 1:The guy gets high fives.

00:37:37Marc:Yeah, the guy.

00:37:39Marc:Did you learn something?

00:37:40Marc:Do you want to watch her die?

00:37:41Guest 1:And you know how they do it?

00:37:42Guest 1:They put you in a pit, they throw stones at you, they don't really stone you to death, and then at some point they shoot you.

00:37:49Marc:That seems like cheating.

00:37:50Marc:It is cheating.

00:37:53Marc:That is going against the rules of the book.

00:37:56Guest 1:Yeah, because the Quran doesn't mention guns at all.

00:37:58Marc:Yeah.

00:37:59Guest 1:1400 years ago.

00:38:00Guest 1:What's that story you talk about?

00:38:01Guest 1:I was talking to this guy in Saudi Arabia about... Oh, no, we were talking about Saudi Arabia and gender inequality there.

00:38:07Guest 1:He said that it wasn't their fault because the Quran said that women shouldn't drive...

00:38:12Guest 1:And I said, if the Quran had said 1,400 years ago that women shouldn't drive, I would be at the mosque every day.

00:38:20Guest 1:And so would you, Marc Maron, you'd be at the mosque if the Quran had called that.

00:38:24Guest 1:It's a hell of a book.

00:38:25Guest 1:Holy shit.

00:38:26Guest 1:Knew the cars were coming.

00:38:27Guest 1:Clearly the right religion.

00:38:29Guest 1:They're clearly right.

00:38:31Guest 1:Everyone's Muslim, no more strife.

00:38:32Guest 1:This book knows what it's talking about.

00:38:36Marc:But so how did her family react to you?

00:38:40Guest 1:They were great.

00:38:40Guest 1:You know...

00:38:41Guest 1:i don't i mean how southern are they like so what's your name how you pronounce it yeah they're that southern they called me borat for the first no they did not yeah they called you borat they called me borat and i yeah they called me borat and i found out because what we're going to a family reunion and her uncle was like well she said we can't call you borat and i was like you guys were calling me borat

00:39:04Guest 1:And Emily had like a serious talk with them, was like, don't say this, don't say this.

00:39:09Guest 1:But I think that was, you know, I actually think that was like their way of trying to relate to me, like Borat, which is, I think, even the wrong continent, right?

00:39:18Guest 1:Isn't that, yeah, it is the wrong continent.

00:39:21Guest 1:Former USSR.

00:39:23Guest 1:I think they were trying to relate to me and Borat was the closest they could get.

00:39:28Marc:So they were trying to relate to you by calling you the name of a buffoon who is completely inappropriate and almost retarded.

00:39:38Marc:So you're saying that because you were a comedian?

00:39:41Guest 1:I don't think that was part of it.

00:39:43Marc:You don't think that if you weren't a comedian, they wouldn't have called you like Hussein or Bin Laden?

00:39:49Guest 1:Well, I'll take Borat over bin Laden, I guess.

00:39:51Marc:I think so.

00:39:52Marc:I think it's a little more a term of endearment, but it is just sort of, it is ignorant still.

00:39:58Marc:I don't mean to be crass or insult your family, but to call you Borat, I mean, it's cute, but the Southern, you know, white bigots do a lot of things.

00:40:05Marc:I'm not saying they're bigots, but it simplifies things.

00:40:08Guest 1:It does simplify things.

00:40:09Guest 1:And I think that for them, that was the only way that they could relate to me was by simplifying things.

00:40:13Guest 1:I mean, you know, they haven't met me yet.

00:40:15Guest 1:They've seen pictures of me.

00:40:16Marc:All right.

00:40:16Marc:So now they know you.

00:40:17Marc:Can they pronounce your name?

00:40:19Guest 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:40:20Guest 1:You know, they called me.

00:40:22Guest 1:I was like, it's Kumail, you know, like email, but with a cool.

00:40:26Guest 1:So like Kumail.

00:40:28Guest 1:And then they called me email for a little while.

00:40:32Guest 1:Yeah.

00:40:32Marc:but when you're not there they probably call you I don't know what they call me when I'm not there but my parents are great you know they're sort of do you think they had the conversation it's like well he's brown but is he black I don't know man like when I'm down there you see shirts that are like the south will rise again and stuff like that you know it gets pretty like

00:40:54Marc:I say let them have it.

00:40:55Marc:I say let all the people that think that way go to a few states and they can have their own government.

00:41:00Guest 1:Those are your states.

00:41:01Guest 1:We'll put up gates.

00:41:02Marc:Make some money.

00:41:03Marc:Yeah.

00:41:03Marc:I don't care if they put up gates.

00:41:04Guest 1:Yeah, we'll have immigration.

00:41:06Guest 1:We won't go there.

00:41:07Guest 1:Yeah, no problem.

00:41:08Guest 1:Enjoy yourself.

00:41:09Marc:Yeah, exactly.

00:41:10Marc:New York's off limits.

00:41:11Marc:No more shows.

00:41:12Marc:But the problem is that eventually a lot of people down there, even if they think that way, they want to see a musical.

00:41:17Guest 1:Right, they want to go to Broadway.

00:41:19Marc:Right, they want to go to San Francisco and Fisherman's Wharf.

00:41:22Marc:So they'll have to have passes.

00:41:24Guest 1:There's only so much in Georgia.

00:41:25Marc:Vacation visas.

00:41:26Marc:Yeah.

00:41:28Marc:So there's been no problems down there for you?

00:41:31Guest 1:No, no, they've been very... In fact, I think they think it's kind of cool.

00:41:35Guest 1:Because, you know, I mean, it's...

00:41:36Guest 1:southern pretty white uh been there generations and now suddenly the daughter is married to a pakistani like that's exotic i drifted from it i thought you said that they have another daughter who married no no just me at that point they'd have to sort of say like what are we doing wrong we need to fix something

00:41:54Guest 1:It's like, we're fucking up in a very specific way.

00:41:56Guest 1:It's very specific.

00:41:58Guest 1:Something we did makes all our daughters marry Pakistanis.

00:42:01Marc:That'd be great.

00:42:03Marc:Have they crossed any lines with you in the sense of, like, do they act too polite around some things?

00:42:08Guest 1:Yeah, I mean, definitely.

00:42:10Guest 1:It was funny.

00:42:11Guest 1:Like, when I first...

00:42:12Guest 1:had like Thanksgiving with them.

00:42:13Guest 1:They, and Emily had prepped and whatever.

00:42:16Guest 1:So I was sitting around with the family and it was fine, nothing.

00:42:19Guest 1:And then I made some crack, like we were talking about the airport.

00:42:21Guest 1:I make some hack, you know, whenever you're with family, you make a hack joke, some, some hack joke about getting stopped at security or something because of being brown.

00:42:30Guest 1:Did it happen to you?

00:42:32Guest 1:I don't even remember if it had.

00:42:34Guest 1:It happens to me.

00:42:35Guest 1:You know what?

00:42:35Guest 1:Since 9-11, it happens way less.

00:42:38Guest 1:It used to happen to me more.

00:42:39Marc:That's that guilt thing again.

00:42:40Guest 1:Yeah, it is.

00:42:41Guest 1:It is.

00:42:41Guest 1:It's like they don't want to.

00:42:43Guest 1:Yeah.

00:42:43Guest 1:So, actually, I've flown with Eugene Merman a couple of times.

00:42:46Guest 1:Yeah.

00:42:46Guest 1:And both times he's gotten stopped and I have not.

00:42:49Marc:Well, he's more dubious.

00:42:51Guest 1:He is more dubious.

00:42:52Guest 1:He's Russian and large.

00:42:53Guest 1:He's with the brown guy.

00:42:54Guest 1:Let's stop him.

00:42:55Marc:What's he up to?

00:42:56Marc:Yeah.

00:42:56Marc:Well, they stopped him because they thought maybe the bomb was in you.

00:42:58Marc:You were traveling with him.

00:43:00Marc:You were his bomb.

00:43:01Marc:Yeah.

00:43:02Marc:Yeah.

00:43:02Marc:But all right, so you made the hack joke.

00:43:04Guest 1:Oh, they make some hack like airport joke and they laughed so hard, like way harder because they were like, finally, he's admitting it.

00:43:11Guest 1:You know, you should have like, why is this not mentioned yet?

00:43:15Marc:Did you end the joke with like the funny thing was I had a bomb.

00:43:18Guest 1:And I had a bomb.

00:43:20Guest 1:Oh, yeah.

00:43:21Guest 1:Death to America.

00:43:22Guest 1:Yeah.

00:43:22Guest 1:That was the tag.

00:43:23Guest 1:Yeah.

00:43:24Guest 1:Happy Thanksgiving.

00:43:28Marc:So, all right.

00:43:29Marc:Well, now you're in Hollywood.

00:43:30Marc:So, what was the deal?

00:43:31Marc:You had a deal with the network.

00:43:33Guest 1:Yeah, I had a deal with NBC.

00:43:34Marc:And they saw you where?

00:43:37Guest 1:I think UCB and a couple of other places.

00:43:40Marc:And they were like, this is it.

00:43:41Marc:The time is now.

00:43:43Marc:This guy's smart.

00:43:44Marc:He talks good.

00:43:45Marc:He's articulate.

00:43:46Marc:He's articulate.

00:43:47Marc:He seems to be a good one, a nice one.

00:43:49Guest 1:He seems to be one of the good ones.

00:43:50Guest 1:It's rare.

00:43:51Guest 1:It's hard to find one of the good ones.

00:43:55Guest 1:And what was it based on?

00:43:57Guest 1:What's the show?

00:43:58Guest 1:The show was going to be... It's about me marrying a white girl from North Carolina, you know?

00:44:03Guest 1:Oh, okay.

00:44:04Guest 1:Like you said, the first deals are always really autobiographical, right?

00:44:07Guest 1:That's what you told me.

00:44:08Marc:Yeah.

00:44:09Marc:Well, that's what they sort of... That was the old way of...

00:44:13Marc:giving comedians deals was that they would hear the act and they'd say i see a show like raymond right there's not too many of them around now but there used to be a lot of them yeah but you know fortunately for for everyone involved here that seems like comedies are on the rebound and uh and where's what's going on now so you wrote a script

00:44:32Guest 1:Yeah, it was being produced by Conoco.

00:44:37Guest 1:Conan's company.

00:44:38Guest 1:Yeah, Conan's company with NBC.

00:44:40Guest 1:So that got kind of weird.

00:44:42Guest 1:And what we're, I mean, supposedly.

00:44:44Guest 1:Well, his production company is still intact, but they're probably trying to get him a job.

00:44:48Guest 1:Well, they're leaving NBC.

00:44:50Marc:That's what I hear.

00:44:51Marc:Yeah.

00:44:53Guest 1:I think I saw it in the news somewhere.

00:44:54Guest 1:It's sort of falling out, I think.

00:44:56Guest 1:Yeah, it's unclear what happened, but apparently there's problems.

00:45:00Guest 1:It's called Lenoco now.

00:45:01Guest 1:Oh, no.

00:45:02Guest 1:Oh, here we go.

00:45:04Guest 1:No, so I think it's been sort of pushed to mid-season, and we're looking towards that, but I mean, you know, I don't know.

00:45:11Marc:Towards being considered for mid-season.

00:45:12Marc:Yeah, of course.

00:45:13Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:14Guest 1:So it's still in development.

00:45:16Marc:Don't look at me like I'm taking a shot.

00:45:18Marc:No, no, no.

00:45:19Marc:You're not taking a shot.

00:45:20Guest 1:I mean, I know how these things go.

00:45:21Guest 1:You know how these things go.

00:45:22Marc:I know how these things go.

00:45:23Marc:I tried to tell you that.

00:45:24Guest 1:No, you did.

00:45:25Marc:So you wouldn't be upset.

00:45:27Guest 1:No, no, no.

00:45:27Guest 1:I was looking out for you.

00:45:28Guest 1:I know, but it's hard to not be upset.

00:45:31Guest 1:But, I mean, I talked to them recently and they said that they, I don't know what this means, but they said that they want to, you know, in May start it up again and look towards mid-season.

00:45:41Marc:Now you just got to hope that the people that said that are still working there in May.

00:45:45Guest 1:yeah i mean but that's how it is you know it's always gonna be like this but i'm like here like reading for like they had me go out on some nbc auditions oh that must have been great did you have to yeah other people's shows who actually did now now did you uh did you packy it up well the show is called outsourced

00:46:05Guest 1:Yep.

00:46:08Guest 1:Next week, I'm reading for... I am not going to answer that phone.

00:46:11Guest 1:No, no, no.

00:46:12Marc:I am not going to answer that phone.

00:46:14Guest 1:Hello.

00:46:15Guest 1:What would you like to order?

00:46:16Guest 1:Next week, I'm reading for Arranged Marriage.

00:46:23Guest 1:Oh, no.

00:46:24Guest 1:And then one just called Third World Hunger.

00:46:26Guest 1:That's the next one.

00:46:27Guest 1:That's hilarious.

00:46:28Guest 1:New comedy with Russell Peters.

00:46:29Guest 1:It's just hunger.

00:46:30Guest 1:He's not hungry.

00:46:32Guest 1:He's doing great.

00:46:33Marc:He owns the world, Russell Peters.

00:46:34Guest 1:He has hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:46:36Guest 1:He has his own religion.

00:46:37Marc:It's Russell Peterism.

00:46:39Guest 1:Do you, what's your take on Russell Peterism?

00:46:40Marc:I have no idea what he does or who he is.

00:46:42Guest 1:You've never heard any of his stuff?

00:46:43Marc:I've heard him for five minutes and he talks with an Indian accent and he writes jokes.

00:46:47Marc:It sounds like it's all just straight ahead, one liners almost.

00:46:51Guest 1:He does a lot of different, but he does like, his whole thing is he does an Asian accent and like he'll do black people, like he'll do everything.

00:46:58Marc:Oh, so he's like an equal opportunity offender, but he's doing it from an Indian baseline.

00:47:04Guest 1:So he can sort of get away with it, yeah.

00:47:06Marc:Yeah, Jews used to be able to do that.

00:47:07Marc:No more.

00:47:08Guest 1:Yeah, you guys got too powerful.

00:47:09Guest 1:I mean, it's the blessing and the curse.

00:47:11Marc:I don't know if we got too powerful.

00:47:12Marc:I mean, the guy who invented that, Lenny Bruce, those kind of people, like Don Rickles, I guess it got to a point where they're like, why were you letting the Jews say that shit?

00:47:25Marc:But there's still people that enjoy it.

00:47:26Marc:But I guess when an Indian guy says, it's a natural evolution.

00:47:30Marc:The Jews at one time were the minority, were oppressed, did need to pass, and did need to sort of express.

00:47:38Marc:I think it leveled the playing field as far as integration.

00:47:41Marc:I think those jokes were about integrating different races into the dialogue by taking shots at them.

00:47:47Marc:And I guess that the paradigm has shifted.

00:47:49Marc:So that actually makes it seem kind of noble, like doing all these... I never was somebody that had a problem with jokes that... I didn't see stereotyping as racist unless it was done in an angry way.

00:48:06Marc:Like if it's done to trivialize or condescend, I find that offensive.

00:48:13Marc:But if it is...

00:48:14Marc:you know, saying something that is relatively true, despite the fact that it may be a generalization.

00:48:20Marc:If it's funny, it's funny.

00:48:21Marc:And if it's true, it's true.

00:48:22Marc:And that's that.

00:48:24Guest 1:So you think, okay, so for somebody like Carlos Mencia, have you seen a lot of his stuff?

00:48:28Guest 1:I've seen some of his stuff.

00:48:30Guest 1:Have you seen his stuff about Arabs?

00:48:32Guest 1:No.

00:48:33Guest 1:You should listen to it.

00:48:35Guest 1:It's amazing.

00:48:36Guest 1:It's like very angry and violent and...

00:48:38Marc:Yeah.

00:48:39Marc:Well, I think there was a lot of that sentiment in America.

00:48:41Marc:I don't, I don't, you know, Mencia, I don't know enough about what he does to, you know, if what people say is true that he, you know, he's stolen material.

00:48:51Marc:I think that's problematic.

00:48:53Marc:And I think that a lot of people find him to be racist.

00:48:56Marc:I don't know enough about what he does.

00:48:58Marc:All I know about Carlos Mencia is that he's been doing standup for a long time.

00:49:02Guest 2:Yeah.

00:49:03Marc:And that, you know, it was not some sort of weird overnight fluke.

00:49:06Marc:Right, right, right.

00:49:07Marc:That he became popular.

00:49:08Marc:I have seen him perform a couple of times and he's very charismatic and angry.

00:49:14Marc:So you're saying that he's racist.

00:49:16Guest 1:I do think he's racist, yeah.

00:49:18Marc:And that he doesn't get a pass because he's a Hungarian and Mexican.

00:49:24Guest 1:No.

00:49:25Guest 1:Well, I mean, it's hard when he's advocating for, you know, bombing and killing people.

00:49:29Guest 1:He's like, just kill everybody.

00:49:31Marc:Right, so he's playing into the American.

00:49:34Marc:Yeah, and you know, I mean.

00:49:37Marc:See, that's exactly what I said was the wrong thing to do.

00:49:40Guest 1:Right.

00:49:40Guest 1:Well, the other interesting thing you said was, so you like stereotype humor, or you don't dislike it.

00:49:46Guest 1:It's fine as long as it.

00:49:48Marc:No, it took me a long time to realize that when you see a culture speak to itself,

00:49:55Marc:If you see a black comedian speaking to the black community, utilizing stereotypes that obviously exist as community signifiers and having that community laugh hysterically at the common acknowledgement of those stereotypes, then it exists.

00:50:13Marc:It's a fairly hackneyed bit of business.

00:50:16Guest 1:Well, that's the main problem.

00:50:17Guest 1:Right.

00:50:18Marc:I think the real crime is that they're hackneyed.

00:50:21Guest 1:It's cliched, yeah.

00:50:21Marc:There's no real way to do it.

00:50:23Guest 1:There's only so many stereotypes.

00:50:25Guest 1:And if you're doing jokes about stereotypes, you're doing jokes that many people have done before.

00:50:29Marc:But what's interesting is that you're a new stereotype or that you see the axis of evil comments.

00:50:33Guest 1:No, but plenty of people have done.

00:50:35Marc:No, but if you were to perform for an Indian or Pakistani audience, an American Indian or Pakistani.

00:50:40Guest 1:I don't do well, by the way, in front of Indian and American.

00:50:42Marc:Well, I'm sure because you are not going after that.

00:50:46Marc:You are not somebody that's speaking to the community.

00:50:49Marc:You're American-minded in the sense that you want to speak your own voice.

00:50:54Marc:Right.

00:50:55Guest 1:That's an interesting thing.

00:50:56Guest 1:Well, that is... Individuality is such like an American, well, Western thing that we don't have as much of a concept of.

00:51:04Marc:But what I'm saying is, though, in terms of communities integrating themselves into the American experience, when you look at guys like Ahmed Ahmed, Maz Giovanni, Aaron Cater, and the other one, Dino Badala, Palestinian, I guess he does it sometimes, but...

00:51:18Marc:There are tremendously large American communities of Muslims, of Pakistanis, I would imagine, certainly of Arab people, that one of the ways that the Jews passed and one of the ways the blacks sought a cultural identity was through performing and through comedy.

00:51:36Marc:So what you're seeing now is that there is a whole bevy, I would imagine, of Pakistani or Arab stereotypes that we don't even know that that community finds hilarious.

00:51:44Guest 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:45Guest 1:Definitely.

00:51:45Guest 1:Very specific stuff.

00:51:46Marc:Right, so if a white comic was to figure out what those were, but the only way he would know that is by marrying into it or spending time in the community.

00:51:53Marc:You'd have to be into it, yeah.

00:51:55Marc:Then it would be kind of interesting, but I just think that once a white guy can do that kind of stuff, that culture, that ethnic group has integrated.

00:52:04Marc:Oh, that's interesting.

00:52:06Guest 1:Yeah.

00:52:07Guest 1:When I was doing my show, I would certainly have a lot of people come up to me who really related to specific parts of the show without getting too specific.

00:52:18Guest 1:I did get a lot of emails from people who really related to it.

00:52:21Guest 1:And it was a piece of the population that I didn't know existed, you know, people who had sort of been through the things that I've been through.

00:52:28Marc:Right.

00:52:29Marc:Well, the big fear of any religious group, certainly one that comes from outside of the States, even with the Jews, is that the primary intention is the propagation of the religion.

00:52:39Marc:I mean, you know, bottom line is that they terrify you into staying a Muslim no matter what and making more Muslims.

00:52:47Guest 2:Right.

00:52:47Marc:So the big fear, and it was with the Jews too, and they couldn't pull it off.

00:52:50Marc:I mean, you know, it's hard to find a Jew or marry a Jew.

00:52:53Marc:I mean, who wants to put up with that?

00:52:55Marc:But what I'm saying is that, you know, that's what America does and that's what the big fear of these insulated religions and ethnicities is that how are we going to maintain our national identity and our religious identity if they become Americanized?

00:53:09Guest 1:Right.

00:53:10Guest 1:And especially, I mean, in America, the emphasis on individuality in a lot of ways goes directly against what a lot of these religions stand for.

00:53:21Guest 1:Right.

00:53:22Guest 1:Like it goes totally counter to it.

00:53:24Guest 1:Right.

00:53:24Guest 1:You want groupthink.

00:53:25Guest 1:You want groupthink, yeah.

00:53:26Guest 1:And the interesting thing for me has been that, and I haven't really been able to figure it out in a way that makes sense to me, is I do have sort of an identity crisis.

00:53:39Guest 1:I don't know.

00:53:41Guest 1:There's no really one group that I can identify with.

00:53:44Guest 1:And I was at a mosque recently, and

00:53:48Guest 1:And it was a big mosque with like a couple hundred people.

00:53:51Guest 1:And they were, you know, doing prayers or whatever.

00:53:53Guest 1:And I looked around.

00:53:54Guest 1:And there's like a real power in being in a room and realizing everybody in this room thinks like me about this, you know.

00:54:01Guest 1:And that identity and feeling of belonging and...

00:54:06Guest 1:I don't really feel like I have that anymore.

00:54:10Marc:That's interesting because I don't have that in my life and that is the power of community is what you're talking about.

00:54:18Marc:You're talking about the power of community.

00:54:22Marc:There's a lot of Christian megachurches that have been built to establish that feeling, that community.

00:54:28Marc:A lot of the Christian megachurches have moved away from Jesus

00:54:33Guest 1:Right, it's more about community.

00:54:35Marc:Right.

00:54:35Marc:So the sad thing is that in a democracy, if the democracy was engaged and people were civic-minded, that you would have that sense of community in neighborhoods, in towns.

00:54:48Marc:And people would be involved in local politics and their schools and everything else.

00:54:53Marc:And now that people are so selfish that that individuality that you're talking about has detached people completely from what the national fabric of America is supposed to be about in terms of community, that they seek it out elsewhere, whether it's on the Internet or motivational speakers or extreme religious groups.

00:55:10Marc:But there are some churches that some people only go to church for that.

00:55:13Marc:You know, just it's not a matter of belief or following the rules per se, but it's the community.

00:55:20Marc:So I don't think that's unusual.

00:55:22Guest 1:No, and identifying with the group.

00:55:23Guest 1:And I think this is getting like I think after 9-11, a big part of the reason that the country was so...

00:55:30Guest 1:Like we were talking earlier a little bit about these negative sentiments towards the Middle East and Muslims and like people sort of, you know, America.

00:55:38Guest 1:Like I think that happened because a lot of these people suddenly had a cause that they could latch on to and somebody that they could identify, you know, like you don't really sit around thinking of yourself as like a patriotic American usually.

00:55:49Guest 1:But then people suddenly had this thing that they could be like part of something.

00:55:53Marc:bigger themselves from the late 40s on the cold war defined this country right and like i mean before i mean the this is in terms of nazis you know i mean that's what people were able to do is like suddenly they could be a part of history you know so world war ii i think was one of the it was actually you know people felt that it was a just cause and that you know they could get behind it the cold war was a little amorphous if that's the right word that there was just this you know this vague

00:56:19Marc:This pending threat of global destruction.

00:56:23Marc:And I think that was played upon, not unlike, I think 9-11 was played upon to create that jingoistic fear.

00:56:29Marc:That when you really look at the numbers of Muslims, it's profound.

00:56:33Marc:When you look at the numbers of fanatic Muslims, it's minimal.

00:56:38Marc:But the idea that any Muslim is some sort of easily flipped Manchurian candidate.

00:56:43Guest 1:Right, exactly.

00:56:44Guest 1:They just need to flip the switch and we're ready to go.

00:56:47Guest 1:Well, we covered a lot.

00:56:49Guest 1:Did we?

00:56:49Guest 1:Yeah.

00:56:50Guest 1:Do you want to lighten it up?

00:56:51Guest 1:Do you sing or anything?

00:56:54Guest 1:No, Islam does not allow singing.

00:56:55Guest 1:And we're back.

00:56:57Marc:Thank you.

00:56:58Guest 1:No, actually, I am Shiite and we're not supposed to listen to music.

00:57:01Guest 1:Really?

00:57:01Guest 1:Yeah, that's, you know, a thing.

00:57:03Marc:Shiite and Shia.

00:57:05Guest 1:That's the same.

00:57:06Marc:Okay.

00:57:06Guest 1:Shia.

00:57:06Guest 1:I mean, you know, we call ourselves Shia.

00:57:08Guest 1:You guys call us Shiites.

00:57:09Marc:So there's Shia and Sunni.

00:57:11Guest 1:Shia and Sunia are the two big ones, yeah.

00:57:13Marc:What are the other franchises?

00:57:16Guest 1:Those are the two big ones.

00:57:17Guest 1:Those are the McDonald's and Burger King.

00:57:18Guest 1:Are there any smaller ones?

00:57:19Guest 1:We got some.

00:57:20Guest 1:There's Wendy's and A&W, but who gives a shit about those?

00:57:23Guest 1:Yeah, they're barely hanging on.

00:57:25Guest 1:They're barely hanging on.

00:57:26Marc:Yeah, even with the salad bar didn't help.

00:57:28Marc:They've just got a couple.

00:57:29Marc:So you're Shia?

00:57:30Guest 1:Yeah.

00:57:31Marc:And you can't dance?

00:57:32Guest 1:No, I have no rhythm.

00:57:34Marc:But you're not allowed to?

00:57:35Guest 1:I'm basically white on the inside.

00:57:37Guest 1:Now, see, that was racist.

00:57:40Guest 1:Yeah.

00:57:41Guest 1:Okay.

00:57:41Guest 1:Sure.

00:57:42Guest 1:But, you know, like we said, I'm allowed to say these things.

00:57:45Marc:But you wouldn't be like a black guy who, do you ever, can you talk like a white guy?

00:57:50Guest 1:Nah, I can do, I mean, Coca-Cola.

00:57:53Guest 1:I don't know.

00:57:54Guest 1:I do like impressions of, what do you want me to say?

00:57:56Guest 1:I like Coca-Cola.

00:57:58Marc:That's interesting.

00:57:59Marc:So you kind of talk like a gay Southern white guy.

00:58:01Guest 1:Yeah.

00:58:02Yeah.

00:58:02Guest 1:You know, brown guy that sounds like a gay southern white guy.

00:58:05Guest 1:That happens.

00:58:06Guest 1:Does it?

00:58:07Guest 1:No.

00:58:09Guest 1:But sometimes it is interesting when I see my people who are clearly gay.

00:58:12Guest 1:I'm like, oh, good for you.

00:58:13Guest 1:You probably had to fight so much to get to the point where you're like wearing a scarf.

00:58:18Guest 1:Yeah.

00:58:18Guest 1:And then it's just, we're not gay yet.

00:58:20Guest 1:No.

00:58:21Guest 1:I definitely had kids in high school that I was like, this guy is gay.

00:58:24Guest 1:Right.

00:58:25Guest 1:And some of them I've looked up on Facebook.

00:58:26Guest 1:Some of them have moved here and come out and a lot of them are married with kids.

00:58:31Guest 1:They're definitely gay.

00:58:32Marc:Oh, yeah?

00:58:32Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:58:34Marc:Well, that happens a lot in a lot of different cultures.

00:58:35Guest 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:58:36Guest 1:You know, this is a thing you see a lot, like when I do shows in like middle of the country, Ohio or whatever, like the...

00:58:44Guest 1:At some theater, the guy who's clearly very gay in his mid-40s, but married with kids and runs the local theater, that happens a lot.

00:58:55Marc:Sure, sure.

00:58:57Marc:And you don't know if they're actively gay.

00:58:59Marc:Yeah, I don't think they are.

00:59:00Guest 1:I mean, they have kids and stuff.

00:59:02Marc:So...

00:59:02Marc:That's the way they want to go.

00:59:04Marc:Let them go.

00:59:05Marc:I mean, I think it's a mistake to assume like if they haven't come out or they haven't sucked a dick or they haven't kissed a man.

00:59:11Marc:How do they know they're gay?

00:59:11Marc:And if they just want to choose to live a life of quiet desperation and be a good father and a good husband.

00:59:17Marc:It's noble.

00:59:17Marc:Occasionally jerk off to men.

00:59:19Marc:So what?

00:59:20Marc:i mean you know it's i guess it's sad but it's a preference i mean there's plenty of things that i have in my brain that are that are no i'm not saying that being gay is a preference no no no that's not what i'm saying but like choosing that life i mean if they weren't you know if they had their brothers they wouldn't i don't know how is it different than you choosing not to do your show

00:59:39Guest 1:And then we were quiet for a little while after that.

00:59:42Guest 1:Do you know what I'm saying?

00:59:43Guest 1:Because I had so many factors in me not to.

00:59:46Guest 1:You're right.

00:59:47Guest 1:It's their choice.

00:59:48Guest 1:They don't have to come out.

00:59:49Guest 1:Whatever.

00:59:50Guest 1:It's just a little, you know.

00:59:52Marc:It's just weird that, you know, there's a cultural pressure to do a lot of things for a lot of different reasons that that group think thinks it's true.

00:59:58Marc:But, you know, if somebody has learned to reckon with it or lives with it, it's sad if the reason that they're doing it is because

01:00:05Marc:they you know don't want to be ostracized or they'll be you know they don't want to be accepted they or they don't want to be made fun of or hurt or whatever that they're terrified because of cultural reasons right to to be who they really are then that's different but if it's a guy that says well yeah you know i don't want to deal with this yeah i like yeah i like thinking about sucking dick and maybe i'd like to do it but not enough to do it and i like my family yeah yeah

01:00:28Marc:But a lot of people think, well, that's going to explode someday.

01:00:32Marc:Sure, it might.

01:00:33Marc:But I think everybody makes deals with themselves like that, not around that particular thing, but you make compromises.

01:00:39Marc:But it's sad when it's so culturally demonized.

01:00:45Marc:That's not right.

01:00:46Marc:Right.

01:00:47Marc:Everybody should be able to talk about... Fuck whatever they want.

01:00:51Marc:Well, I mean, let's not go crazy.

01:00:52Marc:Fuck whoever they want.

01:00:54Marc:Well, yeah, if they're consenting adults and human.

01:00:56Marc:Consenting human adults.

01:00:58Marc:Right, or one human adult and something inanimate.

01:01:01Marc:I don't have a problem with that.

01:01:02Guest 1:Yeah, that's fine.

01:01:03Marc:But, you know, animals and children, I think, should be awful.

01:01:05Guest 1:But if it's a consenting dog that's, like, enjoying it and having an orgasm while you fuck it, that's wrong?

01:01:10Marc:I guess it's up to you.

01:01:11Guest 1:The dog loves it.

01:01:12Marc:Maybe.

01:01:13Marc:I mean, do you really know what a dog likes?

01:01:16Marc:Yeah.

01:01:16Guest 1:Well, no, I don't.

01:01:17Guest 1:But, you know, I'm not saying I could please a dog.

01:01:19Guest 1:But I'm saying if somebody is pleasing a dog.

01:01:22Marc:Yeah.

01:01:22Guest 1:And the dog is not, you know, the dog likes it.

01:01:25Marc:Yeah.

01:01:25Marc:You know, I remember when I was a kid, there was a guy I knew that jerked off his dog because he thought it was funny.

01:01:30Guest 1:Yeah.

01:01:31Guest 1:But he's married.

01:01:32Guest 1:He's all right.

01:01:33Marc:He runs a dental business now.

01:01:34Marc:He makes dental molts.

01:01:35Guest 1:I don't mean jerking.

01:01:36Guest 1:I mean like fucking dogs.

01:01:39Marc:Yeah, I think that's sad.

01:01:40Marc:And I don't know because I don't think we're really taking into consideration the dog's feelings.

01:01:48Marc:But you're qualifying it somehow by saying that you know the dog loves it.

01:01:51Guest 1:The dog loves it.

01:01:53Guest 1:I still think that.

01:01:54Guest 1:Orgasming harder than it's ever orgasmed.

01:01:57Marc:I think that's fine, but you should give it to yourself.

01:02:00Guest 1:Okay.

01:02:01Guest 1:All right, good.

01:02:02Guest 1:I'll remember that.

01:02:03Marc:I think that's it.

01:02:04Marc:I can't close any bigger than that.

01:02:06Marc:Thanks for talking.

01:02:07Marc:Let me make sure I can.

01:02:08Marc:Kamel.

01:02:09Guest 1:Mm-hmm.

01:02:11Marc:No, Gianni.

01:02:12Guest 1:Yeah, perfect.

01:02:13Guest 1:Oh, thank fucking God.

01:02:14Guest 1:Nailed it.

01:02:15Guest 1:Mark Marone.

01:02:17Oh.

01:02:23Marc:Okay, that was it.

01:02:24Marc:I don't know how it gets more interesting than that, really.

01:02:27Marc:I got to get out.

01:02:28Marc:I got to get out.

01:02:30Marc:Can I get some suggestions, please?

01:02:32Marc:I don't really want to go back to France.

01:02:34Marc:I don't want to go to Italy.

01:02:35Marc:I don't want to go to Spain.

01:02:37Marc:Something exotic.

01:02:37Marc:I'm thinking in terms of maybe Morocco, maybe Russia.

01:02:42Marc:Thailand, I'm not so interested in for some reason.

01:02:45Marc:India, I'm kind of interested in.

01:02:47Marc:I'd like to hear a little bit about those experiences.

01:02:49Marc:Help me plan a trip, folks.

01:02:51Marc:I hope you enjoyed that show.

01:02:53Marc:If you want some comedy info of any kind, go to punchlinemagazine.com and take that in.

01:02:59Marc:I don't want to plug all my dates again, but March 4th, 5th, and 6th to Palms in Vegas.

01:03:04Marc:And I do want to plug, again, March 21, the Grog Shop in Cleveland, 22, the Black Cat in D.C.,

01:03:11Marc:25 through 27, Funny Bone in Bloomington, Indiana.

01:03:15Marc:The guy who did the music, our new theme music, John Montagna, he did a great video of creating the theme music.

01:03:22Marc:That is up on WTFPod.com.

01:03:25Marc:And donate if you got the bread, because as I've said before, I love doing this.

01:03:29Marc:And we're doing okay, and I'm very grateful for the subscriptions that people have, and the donations.

01:03:35Marc:I'm very grateful for that.

01:03:37Marc:It's encouraging, and we love doing it.

01:03:40Marc:And please have a good week.

01:03:41Thank you.