Episode 481 - Dan Vitale

Episode 481 • Released March 23, 2014 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fuckstables what the fuckaholics what the fuckadelics what the fuckanucks what the fucking avians yes i am mark maron this is wtf i am in a hotel room in new york city

00:00:24Marc:I have a corner room at the Bowery Hotel.

00:00:27Marc:I'm not bragging, but not a bad place.

00:00:30Marc:I'm finally in a neighborhood that I understand and appreciate.

00:00:34Marc:You know, usually when IFC flies me out, they put me up at the London.

00:00:37Marc:Look, I'm not complaining.

00:00:38Marc:These are nice ass hotels.

00:00:40Marc:But if I'm in Midtown, all you are is you're in the business world.

00:00:44Marc:You're in the tourist world.

00:00:45Marc:There's nowhere to go.

00:00:47Marc:You go to the Museum of Modern Art down the street, but you got to take a train downtown.

00:00:50Marc:Here I get up.

00:00:51Marc:I get up, I'm way the hell downtown.

00:00:54Marc:I can just go walk around my past.

00:00:56Marc:I can go look at the place I used to live, look at the place I used to get drunk, look at the place I used to get Coke.

00:01:00Marc:I'm not saying that that's the tour that I'm taking.

00:01:03Marc:I try not to get nostalgic for it, but there are things I can do down here that I enjoy doing.

00:01:08Marc:Go over to Veselka, have a bowl of hot borscht and some pierogies and sit there in a consistency that's been there for years and years.

00:01:16Marc:I remember that place when it was just a dirty little hole and now it's a bigger place.

00:01:20Marc:But the borscht is like a universal truth, man.

00:01:23Marc:The hot borscht at Veselka is a universal truth.

00:01:27Marc:Sometimes you got to send it back to get it hotter, but it's just it's never changes.

00:01:31Marc:Well, you know, this is a New York-based show.

00:01:34Marc:The interview with Dan Vitale, I taped in a hotel room here in New York.

00:01:39Marc:And Dan Vitale is very important to me.

00:01:43Marc:He's I know many of you may not know who he is.

00:01:46Marc:You probably don't.

00:01:48Marc:But he was sort of a huge force in my life at one time.

00:01:52Marc:It's very interesting because I'm having a little of this in the dynamic of my relationship, too.

00:01:58Marc:It's just sort of like, you know, what what part of your past?

00:02:02Marc:You know, do you hold on to?

00:02:03Marc:There are artifacts, there are people, there are things that help define you.

00:02:07Marc:That's just part of life.

00:02:09Marc:You know, you can't erase your past, whether it's good or bad.

00:02:12Marc:Sometimes it just goes away.

00:02:13Marc:It's probably all going to go away naturally, eventually.

00:02:16Marc:Eventually your brain can't contain it, or God forbid you get some sort of sickness and things start to dissipate.

00:02:22Marc:You know, things go away.

00:02:23Marc:Fragments come and go.

00:02:25Marc:And obviously, memories can be updated and revised and sort of reformatted.

00:02:29Marc:They change in their intensity in terms of how you see them.

00:02:32Marc:And sometimes, you know, they come to you later and you realize like, oh, my God, that was more important than I thought it was, either for good or for bad.

00:02:40Marc:I never really processed that event or that memory like that.

00:02:43Marc:They sort of grow exponentially.

00:02:45Marc:They ebb and flow in your mind.

00:02:47Marc:Sometimes different parts of the event or the memory or the period come to the forefront and the ones that used to be important go back.

00:02:54Marc:It's how you define your perception of yourself and the world is the ebbing and flowing of memories, events, and time periods, and also the way those things mutate themselves.

00:03:04Marc:It's hard to get to the truth of a memory.

00:03:07Marc:or of an artifact from your life, because all you can rely on is the brain that captured it in the first place and what that brain's gonna do with it.

00:03:13Marc:There's no absolute truth to it, but your perception sort of evolves and changes.

00:03:18Marc:And then, God forbid, sometimes it just goes away.

00:03:22Marc:I imagine there's a freedom in that, but there's a sadness to it, too.

00:03:27Marc:There's a sadness.

00:03:28Marc:about how fragile this thing between our ears really is, how fragile those chemicals that are connected to our heart and make us understand the world in our own unique way, how fragile it all is.

00:03:41Marc:God, it's getting heavy.

00:03:42Marc:Dan Vitale.

00:03:45Marc:Let me tell you about Dan Vitale.

00:03:49Marc:Dan Vitale was a force to be reckoned with.

00:03:51Marc:When I got to New York in the late 80s, 1989, the original improv was one of the only places that, you know, I could work.

00:03:59Marc:The original improv, what was left of it up there on 44th Street was, you know, Bud Friedman had left and built his empire.

00:04:06Marc:And the original improv where everything started was...

00:04:09Marc:under the control of Bud's ex-wife, Silver Friedman, who ran the place and managed it to, micromanaged it down to your act, to who you were, to who she let on, and to what she, you know, she had things to say about you.

00:04:20Marc:But it was sort of a beat-up place, and it kind of had the vibe that it was on its last legs.

00:04:24Marc:But it was the original improv, so it had that, the sort of history to it, and it had, you know, all these, you know, weird old pictures, and, you know, it was the place.

00:04:33Marc:It was the original club.

00:04:34Marc:It was the original brick wall.

00:04:36Marc:The original improv on 44th Street was a small room.

00:04:40Marc:The chairs were beat up.

00:04:41Marc:The sign on the wall, hanging on the brick wall that said the improvisation was missing a letter.

00:04:46Marc:All the chairs were, you know, some of them were built into the wall.

00:04:50Marc:It might have probably seat less than 200 people in there.

00:04:53Marc:It was a tight little room with a front bar.

00:04:56Marc:And it just looked like it was beat up.

00:04:58Marc:It wore all the history right on the chairs, right on the walls.

00:05:02Marc:We felt it all.

00:05:03Marc:It wasn't haunted.

00:05:04Marc:It was just a little bit beat up, and it felt like it was almost over.

00:05:09Marc:But being able to work there, you kind of felt like, well, at least I'm catching the tail end of this.

00:05:14Marc:At least I've stood in front of the original brick wall, the first one, where it all started, where all the people in New York started to come back in the early 70s or late 60s.

00:05:26Marc:it was you felt it all but uh when i got there there was this dude dan vitali i never heard of him i didn't know who he was but he was one of these guys that a sort of mythological tale surrounded him you know at the time he was very heavy you know he'd get up on stage and he was one of the first guys i'd ever seen get up on stage and literally look at an audience and go you know what

00:05:49Marc:Yeah, I don't know if we're going to get along.

00:05:51Marc:I don't know if we're going to hit it off.

00:05:53Marc:And he would just wrestle with himself on stage.

00:05:55Marc:I'd never seen anything like it.

00:05:56Marc:There was this amazing sort of bombastic sort of wit and confidence mixed with this utter, complete, angry insecurity.

00:06:05Marc:It was fascinating to me that he could let himself be that way on stage and that he was that way offstage, too.

00:06:10Marc:He just struggled with himself.

00:06:12Marc:But he had brilliant jokes.

00:06:13Marc:I've quoted some of the jokes on this show.

00:06:15Marc:Uh, you know, to other people and talking to Dom, I rare, but I just used to love watching this guy and hang around this guy because I'd never seen someone so actively struggling with himself, you know, with his past, you know, with the substances, with everything.

00:06:28Marc:But the, the story was that, you know, he was the next big guy.

00:06:32Marc:He was that guy.

00:06:33Marc:You know, he was really the first story that it was the first time I ever heard that story.

00:06:37Marc:We're like, yeah, man, he was poised to be the guy at, you know, for Lorne Michaels.

00:06:42Marc:Lorne Michaels took a shine to him and he got to he got the shot and he just blew it because he couldn't control his his his personality or his substances or anything.

00:06:52Marc:He just blew it and then he fell hard.

00:06:55Marc:And this is what's left of him.

00:06:56Marc:And I loved what was left of him because it was so brutally raw and human and honest in a way that being humbled gives you.

00:07:07Marc:You can fight being humbled, but if you are humbled, you can't hide it.

00:07:12Marc:You can fight it, but you can't hide it.

00:07:15Marc:It's tough to find grace in that.

00:07:17Marc:I guess grace is a theme.

00:07:20Marc:But I was sort of obsessed with Vitaly.

00:07:22Marc:And then there was that period there.

00:07:23Marc:I remember there was this one time, you know, Bill Hicks lived in New York for about a day, maybe less than a year.

00:07:29Marc:He just decided to move here.

00:07:31Marc:He was doing sets at the Improv.

00:07:33Marc:No one really understood Hicks.

00:07:34Marc:You know, he just blew that room apart.

00:07:36Marc:You know, and Vitaly and Hicks were buddies.

00:07:38Marc:I mean, they became friends.

00:07:39Marc:And, you know, and then we used to sit and watch like, I remember one time I sat and watched Brian Regan with Bill Hicks and Vitaly was there.

00:07:45Marc:And I just remember this one time where me and Bill Hicks and Dan Vitaly

00:07:50Marc:It was New Year's Eve and we were at the improv.

00:07:53Marc:We had nothing to do.

00:07:54Marc:No parties, no nothing.

00:07:55Marc:And we were like three blocks away from where the ball drops.

00:07:58Marc:And I'd never seen it.

00:07:59Marc:I never wanted to go over there.

00:08:00Marc:I never wanted to fucking deal with the massive crowds and all the bullshit.

00:08:05Marc:But Hicks had never seen it.

00:08:06Marc:So me and Vitalia stand there and Hicks is like, let's go, man.

00:08:09Marc:Let's go see it.

00:08:10Marc:And I'm like, dude, we're never we're not even going to get close to it.

00:08:12Marc:I mean, we were on 44th and like between 8th and 9th and it's happening at 42nd in Times Square.

00:08:17Marc:And there were people already backed up to almost to where we were.

00:08:20Marc:But Hicks is like, man, I got to see it.

00:08:21Marc:I got to see it.

00:08:22Marc:And we went out.

00:08:23Marc:I just remember the three of us, you know, these fucking rogue comedians.

00:08:27Marc:You know, friendless and without definition, life-wise, other than our gypsy existence.

00:08:34Marc:We're trying to plow through the essence of mainstream culture, you know, to get to watch this spectacle.

00:08:41Marc:And we got about a block, and we didn't know what to do.

00:08:44Marc:We couldn't move.

00:08:45Marc:It was horrible.

00:08:47Marc:And Hicks is just sort of like, ah, fuck this.

00:08:49Marc:Let's go back to the improv and do the countdown.

00:08:51Marc:So we wandered back.

00:08:53Marc:And just, you know, sat there and waited for New Year's to happen.

00:08:57Marc:The three of us, in my memory, were just alone in the bar at the improv, you know, waiting for New Year's to happen.

00:09:04Marc:It's just a beautiful New York sort of, you know, sad but kind of pretty moment, you know.

00:09:10Marc:But Vitaly, man, I just, he's always had, I've always had a big place in my heart for him.

00:09:15Marc:And I'm very thrilled that I was able to talk to him, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.

00:09:19Marc:This conversation with Dan Vitale took place at the London Hotel.

00:09:24Marc:I don't think I had sat down and talked to Dan in over 20 years.

00:09:28Marc:Over 20 years.

00:09:29Marc:I think I ran into him once in that time.

00:09:32Marc:but he looks good.

00:09:34Marc:He's a, you know, specifically New York character.

00:09:38Marc:And, and, you know, it had a profound effect on my life and I was thrilled to talk to him.

00:09:44Marc:So, so this is me and Dan Vitale.

00:09:52Guest:No, I tell you the truth.

00:09:53Guest:I was thinking when I was walking through, like, the last time I stayed in any kind of decent hotels, it's like I'm in my 50s, so it's really, like, my late 20s.

00:10:04Guest:Maybe I caught a couple in my early 30s.

00:10:07Guest:I was getting, like, the last of, like, the good television work that was coming my way.

00:10:11Guest:Yeah.

00:10:12Guest:And sad to say, my only reference is that I would come in looking kind of, like, crazed.

00:10:18Guest:Yeah.

00:10:19Guest:And, you know, because it's like what I would do is...

00:10:22Guest:I knew that I was like say I was a featured player on SNL so I knew I was getting like like 1800 a week Yeah, so I'd go up to Broadway video and I'd wait for like Lauren's secretary and I would come up with some story about You know a sick relative and Con Ed's closing me off and so I'd get an advance Yeah of like a couple of thousand yeah, and I'd go like well I can't really be around like people I know because I knew it was to come you know and

00:10:48Guest:So I would go check in.

00:10:50Guest:I'd go, OK, let me just get a nice hotel room.

00:10:52Guest:I'll do my ugly business, whatever that's going to be.

00:10:55Guest:Yeah.

00:10:56Guest:And, you know, you'd always walk in.

00:10:59Guest:They always had like that.

00:11:00Guest:I'm sure they have one here, you know, like that security place where you could go like I'd like to leave some valuables.

00:11:06Guest:So no matter how much I got, like, say I got five grand, I would take like two grand in the pocket.

00:11:11Guest:I'd put three grand in the box downstairs.

00:11:14Guest:Nobody touches that.

00:11:15Guest:And then I'd call up some degenerate Coke dealer or pick up some denizen of the street.

00:11:24Guest:And then within 20 hours, I'd be down there sweating with some concierge trying to talk me out of going to the...

00:11:32Guest:So it's like I never really got that experience of sitting there.

00:11:36Guest:Having some coffee?

00:11:37Marc:Yeah, having the nice room service.

00:11:40Marc:So I moved to New York.

00:11:41Marc:I guess it was 89.

00:11:42Marc:I was living on the Lower East Side.

00:11:44Marc:And Silver passed me at the original Improv.

00:11:47Guest:Yes, the original.

00:11:49Marc:Yeah, 44th Street, which at that point in 89, it was like a decaying... It had seen its day.

00:11:58Guest:Well, I'll tell you.

00:11:59Guest:Okay, go ahead.

00:12:01Marc:Okay, so I come in, and I think Kevin Brennan was working the door.

00:12:04Marc:I don't think Attell was working the door.

00:12:06Marc:No, Attell was working the door.

00:12:07Marc:I don't know if he was when I got here.

00:12:09Marc:I think he would have done that thing.

00:12:10Marc:Maybe Stu Kamens.

00:12:12Marc:I think he was just getting off the door.

00:12:13Marc:Right.

00:12:15Marc:And you were around, and Brett Butler was living here at that time, and you were this guy that, to me, I didn't know who you were.

00:12:23Marc:But at that time, it's like, that's damn Vitaly.

00:12:25Marc:And you were like, you know, you were up there sweating and you were working some shit through.

00:12:30Marc:And all I know is that they were like, oh, yeah, he was on SNL.

00:12:33Marc:And then it just all went bad.

00:12:35Guest:Wow.

00:12:37Marc:It's true.

00:12:38Guest:Which is true, by the way.

00:12:39Guest:But I mean.

00:12:40Marc:I walk in and you're doing this great comedy.

00:12:43Marc:I still quote fucking jokes of yours.

00:12:45Marc:And I give you credit for the sort of when you hit bottom, you'd be surprised how much give that floor has.

00:12:52Marc:It had a profound effect on me.

00:12:54Marc:But I don't think I ever really got the backstory.

00:12:56Marc:There was that time, 89 to 91, 92, I was here.

00:13:00Marc:Hicks was here for about six months.

00:13:03Marc:But I met you before that.

00:13:05Marc:And you were volatile.

00:13:07Marc:Like, you were in and out of sobriety, but you just never knew when you were going to lose your shit.

00:13:11Marc:And then, like, you know, you get to the improv.

00:13:12Marc:It's like, oh, yeah, fucking Dan last night.

00:13:14Marc:I don't know.

00:13:17Guest:But what was it?

00:13:18Guest:Like, I went from, like... In other words, it was no longer just about the comedy at that point.

00:13:22Guest:I'd become, like, sort of almost like a spectacle of some... Well, I didn't see it necessarily, but you heard about it.

00:13:29Guest:Like, it's like when Dan got there, you're like, all right, we'll see what happens.

00:13:32Guest:I could give you the chronology if you need that.

00:13:35Guest:Yeah, I could.

00:13:36Guest:So...

00:13:36Guest:You know what, man?

00:13:38Guest:I wanted to be a comedian.

00:13:40Guest:I grew up in Queens, Long Island.

00:13:43Guest:And then in the late 70s, I just went like, you know what, man?

00:13:46Guest:I'm going to go to New York City, and I'm going to do something, be an actor, be a comedian, be a hipster poet.

00:13:51Guest:I don't know, something.

00:13:53Guest:But wait, you grew up in Queens?

00:13:55Guest:I was born in Queens.

00:13:56Guest:I mostly grew up in Long Island, man.

00:13:58Guest:Italian family?

00:13:59Guest:Italian-Irish.

00:14:00Guest:Yeah, crazy family, man.

00:14:02Guest:Yeah, my mother was...

00:14:04Guest:You know, like all the things that we know about, like my mother was like a blackout drunk.

00:14:11Guest:Yeah.

00:14:12Guest:You know, running like pharmaceuticals with the Seagrams long before it became hip.

00:14:16Guest:Right.

00:14:17Guest:You know, like now it's almost happy to be in, you know, like, you know, oh, he just got out of rehab.

00:14:22Guest:Right.

00:14:22Guest:Got some demons.

00:14:23Guest:Yeah.

00:14:23Guest:Yeah, my old lady had those demons on like, you know, like, you know, middle class Long Island, you know, which I mean, I'm not trying to make it funny.

00:14:31Guest:It actually ended very bad.

00:14:33Guest:It ended very poorly.

00:14:34Guest:Yeah, that it really took her down and it busted up my family.

00:14:39Guest:But even then, you know, I'll tell you the truth, man.

00:14:42Guest:Even though there was, like, a real darkness around the family, there was also a lot of, like, dark laughter.

00:14:49Guest:Sure.

00:14:49Guest:And I got a feeling that's where I kind of got, like, you know, the beginning of, like, my vision.

00:14:55Guest:Like, it was, like, my family isn't like all the other families on Penn O'Brien, man, you know?

00:15:00Guest:Right.

00:15:01Guest:What was your dad doing?

00:15:03Guest:He was a very interesting guy.

00:15:05Guest:He'd had some issues himself in the, I would say in the, I don't really know the specifics.

00:15:17Guest:Right.

00:15:18Guest:But I'm sure that illegality, there was some pending charges or something.

00:15:27Guest:When I was seven, not quite eight, I just remember a cardboard box being thrown into my room.

00:15:34Guest:I'm laying there with one of them jackets with the Yankee penance on it.

00:15:39Guest:It was like, put your stuff in the box.

00:15:42Guest:We're moving.

00:15:43Guest:It was like...

00:15:44Guest:and the next thing i know man we were like in florida and like my parents were managing a motel but it was like it was weird man oh by the way i remember i was just telling somebody it's funny that i was talking to somebody the other night it's the first time i remember this in a lot of years yeah like my family decided that since everything was blowing up in new york city yeah the solution to the problem somehow was going to florida yeah and

00:16:10Guest:So we all went down to Florida, and it all, like, it just didn't happen.

00:16:17Guest:And the next thing I know, I was being flown back to live with my aunt or something.

00:16:22Guest:And then I remember, like, a couple of years went by, and they went, let's try that again.

00:16:28Guest:And, like, this is the same thing.

00:16:30Guest:Oh, but I'll tell you something really interesting, and it's actually this week.

00:16:33Guest:Yeah.

00:16:33Guest:The day that I flew back, this is the only thing I truly remember.

00:16:36Guest:I will never forget this.

00:16:38Guest:The day we flew out of Miami,

00:16:40Guest:back to New York City.

00:16:42Guest:It had to be February 9th, 1964, because there I was getting at the airport, and there was bedlam, and there was insanity.

00:16:53Guest:I landed at, it wasn't called JFK then.

00:16:56Guest:What was it?

00:16:56Guest:Was it Isle Wild then?

00:16:58Guest:I don't know.

00:16:59Guest:I landed at the airport the same day the Beatles landed, man.

00:17:02Guest:And they were doing the Sullivan show that night.

00:17:04Guest:Right.

00:17:05Guest:So I was sitting in my Uncle Rocky's that night watching the Beatles.

00:17:08Guest:But I was in the airport that day.

00:17:09Guest:I mean, it's pretty amazing, historic little... Yeah, yeah.

00:17:13Guest:I always kind of like...

00:17:15Guest:brushed and rubbed elbows with history never quite got to it you know like i never really quite got to be you were in the corner of the picture yeah there's that kid again that little fat kid you know i gotta i think lennon said he he had a vibe on me that little fat kid uh i think he's gonna grow up and abuse drugs like myself uh

00:17:39Marc:All right, so your mom was out of control, and your dad was dubious.

00:17:43Guest:Yeah, he was a great guy, and, I mean, he held the family together.

00:17:46Guest:I'm just saying, like, he, you know, this wasn't, you know, father knows best.

00:17:52Guest:Yeah, I get it.

00:17:53Guest:Yeah, but, I mean, you know, actually.

00:17:55Guest:You got brothers and sisters?

00:17:56Guest:Yeah, they're gone.

00:17:57Guest:Yeah.

00:17:58Guest:Dead?

00:17:59Guest:Yeah, dead.

00:18:01Guest:Yeah, I'm the survivor.

00:18:02Guest:You know, I tell you the truth, though, man, I don't, I used to, like, kind of hold that as, like, a,

00:18:08Guest:like i'm the survivor it's true everybody died in my family like and actually even like obviously my brother and sister died i don't really want to dwell on the tragedy aspect i will if you want me to but for the was it all the it was all uh yeah it was pretty dark stuff no actually i mean well i'll tell you in a nutshell man like uh

00:18:31Guest:My mother stayed in Florida.

00:18:33Guest:Yeah.

00:18:33Guest:And so, like, when I was 12, it was, like, Christmas.

00:18:36Guest:My sister was going to go visit her, and she got killed by a drunk driver at the airport going down to visit her.

00:18:43Guest:You know what, man?

00:18:44Guest:Like, that was, like, sort of, for all intents and purposes, like, the end of, like, childhood.

00:18:51Guest:You know, it's, like, at that point, I started seeing the world in a much...

00:18:56Guest:Even at 13 or 14, I started being drawn into... I just saw the world in a darker way.

00:19:06Guest:I lost all my... If I, in fact, had any childhood idolism... Innocence.

00:19:12Guest:Yeah, innocence.

00:19:14Guest:And it's like...

00:19:15Guest:You know, I've often thought about that.

00:19:17Guest:Like, because it's like it wasn't until like years ago.

00:19:21Guest:Like, I kind of like locked that down.

00:19:23Guest:All that stuff.

00:19:24Guest:Yeah.

00:19:25Guest:Yeah.

00:19:25Guest:In my childhood, I kind of like just like close the door on it.

00:19:29Guest:Like, OK, you know what?

00:19:31Guest:That closet will never be.

00:19:34Guest:Actually, I'm not going to close the closet, but I'm going to let what's in there dictate my life.

00:19:39Guest:I will tell you a funny story.

00:19:41Guest:My father had a little coffee shop for a while.

00:19:44Guest:Like, it was an alleged business.

00:19:47Guest:And there was, like, you know, there was actually, like, a Long Island Railroad, like, sort of, like, a couple hours in the morning where they sold a lot of coffee and some breakfast.

00:19:57Guest:But they were, like, the rest of the day was, like, you know, like, very suspect guys hanging out with my father using the pay phone.

00:20:05Guest:You know what I'm saying?

00:20:06Guest:Right, right, right.

00:20:07Guest:So, and there was a topless bar across the street.

00:20:12Guest:And so the strippers used to come in and hang out.

00:20:15Guest:So I got to know, like, you know, I was like, you know, trying to grab a few bucks out of the till.

00:20:20Guest:This is like from my teens, like through high school.

00:20:23Guest:So I didn't really like have a job work.

00:20:25Guest:I was just like, I'd show up and maybe like help out for like an hour in the morning.

00:20:29Guest:Then I'd go to school.

00:20:30Guest:And then like, if I wasn't too stoned, I'd come back and like mop the floor.

00:20:35Guest:But there was no like, you know, salaries.

00:20:37Guest:This was just like, my father said to me, kid,

00:20:41Guest:There's the till.

00:20:42Guest:You need some, you grab it.

00:20:44Guest:You know what I mean?

00:20:45Guest:That was like, he was famous.

00:20:47Guest:He had a very laid back philosopher.

00:20:49Guest:Not on the books.

00:20:50Guest:The old man would like, he'd hang his pants like over the chair and then he'd go sit.

00:20:55Guest:He'd stare at this like black and white TV.

00:20:58Guest:And he'd just be watching TV and he'd just be chain smoking.

00:21:01Guest:And he would drink coffee all day.

00:21:03Guest:I don't know how it didn't affect him.

00:21:06Guest:He could possibly sleep.

00:21:07Guest:I mean, there's guys on crystal meth that aren't as him.

00:21:11Guest:And then he would just go like, hey, kid, you know what?

00:21:15Guest:We don't have that kind of thing.

00:21:16Guest:You got to come to me.

00:21:17Guest:Just if you need something, that's it.

00:21:19Guest:There's no bank accounts.

00:21:21Guest:There's no...

00:21:22Guest:Nothing.

00:21:23Guest:It's there.

00:21:23Guest:No, it's in the pants.

00:21:25Guest:No, it's just go in the pants.

00:21:26Guest:If it ain't there, there's no looking.

00:21:29Guest:So that's the extent to the savings.

00:21:33Guest:So that was it.

00:21:35Guest:There was no CDs, no certificates of deposit.

00:21:39Guest:Anyway, I get it in my head that I'm going to be... You know what?

00:21:43Guest:You got to understand something.

00:21:44Guest:I'm not that much older than you, but a little bit.

00:21:48I'm 50.

00:21:48Guest:All right, I got you by about seven years.

00:21:50Guest:Yeah.

00:21:50Guest:So you remember like when Freddie, do you remember Freddie Prince hitting it on The Tonight Show?

00:21:55Guest:Kind of.

00:21:56Guest:That's the thing, man.

00:21:57Guest:That was like a big deal for like a lot of people.

00:22:00Guest:I think my age was that suddenly this 19-year-old kid went out on The Tonight Show and instantly became an overnight sensation.

00:22:08Guest:Yeah.

00:22:09Guest:And so like I had it in my head.

00:22:10Guest:I'm going to go to the improv.

00:22:12Guest:I'm going to be a comedian and I'm going to be famous.

00:22:14Guest:He was still in New York then.

00:22:16Guest:Freddie?

00:22:16Guest:Yeah.

00:22:17Guest:I didn't know him.

00:22:18Guest:I mean, I was just a teenager.

00:22:19Guest:But he started here.

00:22:20Guest:Yeah, I think he grew up here.

00:22:21Guest:He started at the improv.

00:22:22Guest:Right.

00:22:22Guest:How old?

00:22:23Guest:Oh, God.

00:22:24Guest:I was like a teenager, like 16, 17, 17.

00:22:27Marc:And you made the decision.

00:22:28Guest:You were like... Yeah, because I was always a funny kid, man.

00:22:31Guest:It was like something I always wanted to do.

00:22:32Guest:But I think up until then, my notion, my definition of a comedian was more like...

00:22:40Guest:And which still isn't a bad definition.

00:22:42Guest:It was like Don Rickles, Rodney.

00:22:44Guest:No, they're great.

00:22:45Guest:Yeah.

00:22:46Guest:Or the guys from The Tonight Show and The Ian Sullivan Show.

00:22:48Marc:Because we're like-minded in that.

00:22:51Marc:In my heart, and I was just talking to some other guy about this, those were the guys that put it in me.

00:22:57Marc:Do you know, like, I mean, those in whatever I wanted to do or whatever, you know, pursuit of truth I had or whoever my heroes were later in life, they were usually heroes because, like, they're on the edge, man.

00:23:07Marc:They're pushing the envelope.

00:23:09Marc:But, you know, you go back to those guys, even Rodney, who was underappreciated, they're the fucking best.

00:23:14Guest:Yeah, and actually, if you look back now, you realize that, like,

00:23:17Guest:Yeah, they weren't wearing the hipster clothing.

00:23:20Guest:Right.

00:23:20Guest:And they weren't, like, you know, there was nothing.

00:23:22Guest:But, like, if you really look at it, man, it was the pure soul.

00:23:25Guest:Yeah, they were out of control, man.

00:23:26Guest:The pure soul of a comedian.

00:23:27Guest:They were having a great time.

00:23:28Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:23:29Guest:I had a friend of mine who told me that Rodney, apparently, at one point, somebody of mine was out there.

00:23:36Guest:He was writing films and stuff.

00:23:37Guest:He told me that Charlie Sheen had an apartment, and Rodney had the apartment upstairs.

00:23:42Guest:Yeah.

00:23:43Guest:And that they'd be having parties, and then, like, Rodney would come down, and I'd be like...

00:23:47Guest:He had to be like 80 in his 80s.

00:23:49Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:23:49Marc:He was like... Well, that's what he hit when he was like 70 because of the movies.

00:23:54Guest:Didn't you tell me... I think it was you.

00:23:55Guest:For some reason, I remember the things that you were at the comedy store.

00:23:59Guest:Yeah.

00:24:00Guest:And all of a sudden, you were just kind of new.

00:24:02Guest:You were hanging out.

00:24:02Guest:All of a sudden, a cab pulled up.

00:24:04Guest:Yeah.

00:24:04Guest:And Rodney stuck his head out and went, where's Sam?

00:24:07Guest:Yeah.

00:24:07Marc:He was like, yeah, in his seventies.

00:24:09Marc:Oh yeah.

00:24:10Marc:He used to get out and he'd have his own drink.

00:24:12Marc:He'd be in a bathrobe.

00:24:13Marc:There's a great story that, uh, who was it?

00:24:15Marc:Oh, Carla Bo told me you'll love it that, you know, cause you know, Sam confided in Rob Rodney and Rodney, they were, they, they were kindred spirits.

00:24:22Marc:So there was a lot of, you know, after, after Sam, after Rodney put him on the special and put him in back to school,

00:24:29Marc:You know, Sam really looked at him as a mentor and as a guy who gave him his break.

00:24:35Marc:But apparently, like, one time, you know, Sam had been up three days.

00:24:38Marc:He was fucked up.

00:24:39Marc:He was at the house, and, you know, he's at the end of a three-day run.

00:24:42Marc:And Rodney walked into the house and said, ooh, look at little Nero.

00:24:46Ha!

00:24:47Guest:That's pretty good.

00:24:49Guest:Look at little Nero.

00:24:52Guest:I just remember Rodney used to come into the improv and he'd pull up in like a limo or like a driver.

00:25:00Guest:Yeah.

00:25:00Guest:And then this is like in the early 90s.

00:25:02Guest:Yeah.

00:25:03Guest:He would come in and he was wearing like, and it hadn't been, it was like, you know, guys would wear those little like waist bags.

00:25:09Guest:Fanny packs.

00:25:10Guest:Yeah.

00:25:11Guest:And then he'd go, well, where's the men's room, kid?

00:25:13Guest:He'd go in there, he'd go up on stage and I'd be like,

00:25:17Guest:I think he's wired, man.

00:25:18Guest:Like, the guy was, like, 65 or 70.

00:25:21Guest:And he got up there.

00:25:22Guest:And what I remember was, like, you know, like, even though I had, like, some, you know, I made some moves in my life.

00:25:29Guest:You know, I've been around some bit.

00:25:31Guest:Yeah.

00:25:31Guest:But, like, I've always been a little bit in awe of celebrity.

00:25:34Guest:Yeah.

00:25:34Guest:I always have been.

00:25:36Guest:So I remember, like, you know, the manager would go, like, listen, just bring, ask Rodney what you want him, what he wants you to say, and then just bring him right up.

00:25:44Guest:so it'd be like a rodney just tell him i'm a friend of the i'm a friend of the club wants to go up and so i was like oh this is gonna be great i'm gonna i am i'm seeing i'm gonna watch rodney and he would go up in the handful of times that i saw him at the improv it was like a completely different rodney like remember rodney with that great character that that wonderful twitchy and twitchy and sort of like self-effacing yeah and then those brilliant one-liners yeah

00:26:11Guest:And he would go up, and he would grab the mic, and he started working the crowd.

00:26:15Guest:He'd be like, yeah, look at this guy over here, this bald fuck.

00:26:19Guest:And I was like, he was suddenly working like Rickles, like an insult comic.

00:26:24Guest:And I guess it was just like, I don't know if he was high.

00:26:26Guest:But I guess he just needed to get his thing.

00:26:30Guest:In other words, like, hey, I don't want to always be so perfect.

00:26:33Guest:I have to get these.

00:26:34Guest:But I just remember watching it, and you're like,

00:26:36Guest:Yeah, look at this one over here.

00:26:39Guest:Where'd you meet this?

00:26:40Guest:And then he'd go, all right, thanks a lot.

00:26:43Guest:And of course, the people were just like, ah, they couldn't believe that for the price they were paying.

00:26:47Guest:They saw Rodney, so they were thrilled.

00:26:49Guest:But I remember like, what was the point?

00:26:51Guest:Like, in other words, like, you're working on that?

00:26:55Marc:Right.

00:26:55Marc:But you know, now as an older guy, you know that he just needed to get up there.

00:27:00Marc:Who the hell knows?

00:27:02Marc:Maybe there was 12 people in the room.

00:27:03Guest:What's he going to do?

00:27:04Guest:Yeah, I mean, yeah, I hear you.

00:27:06Guest:Oh, actually, I mean, listen, I've never, like, I've done some, you know, I've had moments where I was like, you know, I could work some mainstream comedy, but I've never gotten past the planet.

00:27:18Guest:My favorite thing on planet Earth is to work in front of, like, 12 people that are scattered around, and half of them don't really want to be there.

00:27:28Guest:And then, like, if you could somehow lure them in, you know, man?

00:27:31Guest:It's a victory.

00:27:32Marc:Yeah.

00:27:32Marc:It's better than, like, killing with a full room.

00:27:35Guest:Well, you know what, man?

00:27:36Guest:You used to open your set with, like, you know, I got a feeling we're not going to.

00:27:39Guest:You know what?

00:27:40Guest:It's funny.

00:27:40Guest:I heard you say that.

00:27:42Guest:That's how we actually got in touch.

00:27:44Guest:Because a buddy of mine called me up.

00:27:46Guest:He goes, hey, listen, man.

00:27:47Guest:It was bizarre.

00:27:48Guest:I was up at, like, 6 in the morning.

00:27:49Guest:And I was at my buddies.

00:27:51Guest:I guess he had a link to Jim Norton.

00:27:52Guest:And so then Norton was on your podcast.

00:27:55Guest:So he went and he goes, he's playing me your podcast.

00:27:59Guest:And I got, like, a cell phone from, like, you know.

00:28:01Guest:Right.

00:28:02Guest:And I'm listening.

00:28:03Guest:So I call him up.

00:28:04Guest:He goes, they were talking about you.

00:28:06Guest:So I guess you and Dom were talking about me at the South by Southwest.

00:28:10Guest:Oh, OK.

00:28:11Guest:Yeah.

00:28:11Guest:So I listened.

00:28:12Guest:I was like, oh, that's pretty cool, man.

00:28:13Guest:These guys remember.

00:28:14Guest:So then the next day I moved.

00:28:17Guest:I moved from a building.

00:28:18Guest:I moved into another better building across the street.

00:28:21Guest:So I was moving, and I knew I had to throw a bunch of stuff out.

00:28:24Guest:So I keep stuff in boxes.

00:28:26Guest:So I was going through a box.

00:28:28Guest:This is all comedy material and stuff with phone numbers I'm never going to use.

00:28:32Guest:And I found this little scrap of paper, and it said, Marc Maron, a 917 number.

00:28:37Guest:And my friend was sitting there right with me, and I went, what are the chances this guy would still have this number?

00:28:43Guest:I haven't seen him.

00:28:43Guest:She went, no.

00:28:44Guest:Take a shot.

00:28:45Guest:And I immediately get it.

00:28:46Guest:You just answered like as if we'd been talking.

00:28:49Guest:Yeah.

00:28:50Guest:Yeah.

00:28:51Guest:I was like, Mark.

00:28:53Guest:So, yeah.

00:28:53Guest:But I do remember you said that on the podcast.

00:28:55Guest:You went, yeah, he would go up and start by going.

00:28:59Guest:I don't.

00:29:00Marc:I don't think we're going to get a lot.

00:29:01Guest:I guess I did that sometimes.

00:29:03Guest:But I think, you know what?

00:29:04Guest:I actually thought that you might have had me confused with, like, Larry David.

00:29:08Guest:No, no, I didn't see that much.

00:29:09Marc:Because he would actually.

00:29:10Marc:You would get up, though.

00:29:10Marc:No, no, I remember it.

00:29:11Marc:You would do maybe one joke, and it would be like, all right.

00:29:16Guest:Yeah.

00:29:17Guest:I did have a very low threshold for, like, in other words, like.

00:29:20Guest:I guess if you're a really professional comedian or seasoned on any level, you would assume that a guy who'd been doing it for off and on 10, 15 years would know that, especially given the lateness of the spot and the randomness of the audience, that maybe the first line isn't going to kill.

00:29:38Guest:And I would go up.

00:29:41Guest:But you know what?

00:29:43Guest:I was kind of crazy in those days because it was like,

00:29:46Guest:I guess I could perform, so I wasn't at my worst in terms of using it.

00:29:52Guest:But I clearly wasn't completely sane.

00:29:55Marc:But I think what we share is that for some reason, when you get up there, in that moment, a lot hinges on it.

00:30:03Marc:You don't feel like you're entertaining.

00:30:06Marc:You're sort of like, this is everything that I've been is happening right now.

00:30:11Guest:And it's all hinging on your approval for some fucked up reason.

00:30:15Guest:Right.

00:30:15Guest:I know.

00:30:17Guest:And actually, I think we might actually be even more similar in this regard.

00:30:22Guest:For some reason, like over the years, maybe it's like my Italian-ness or something, and I used to slick back my hair and go smoke.

00:30:31Guest:For some reason, a lot of people were under the impression that I was like some cool guy who'd seen a lot, like who'd seen a lot of life.

00:30:39Guest:Like, oh, yeah, this guy, he's...

00:30:42Guest:He's been to the other side.

00:30:43Guest:Right.

00:30:44Guest:And in some ways that's true.

00:30:46Guest:Right.

00:30:47Guest:But I don't think that I ever took the stage as a comedian, ever, that I didn't approach, as my hand first held the microphone and looked at it at the audience, that I wasn't like some skiddy.

00:31:01Guest:Scared, little prom girl who just want, I so need your love.

00:31:06Guest:Oh, please.

00:31:08Guest:Yeah.

00:31:09Guest:I was Judy Garland, man.

00:31:11Guest:The weird thing is that that's what we're feeling, but there's nothing but rage in our eyes.

00:31:16Right.

00:31:16Guest:No, and the weird thing is, like, at least you have, like, the cool kind of, like, you know, you've always had, like, a cooler look because you've got the glasses.

00:31:25Guest:Right, yeah.

00:31:25Guest:It's all bullshit.

00:31:26Guest:But, like, me, man, like, from the 80s to the 90s, like, I put on 100 pounds.

00:31:30Guest:Yeah.

00:31:31Guest:So I went from, like, looking, like, sort of like a...

00:31:34Guest:de niro in mean street yeah to like uh tony salerno you know so like it even seemed crazier that this big italian aggressive guy would be so sensitive people didn't really know like the last thing they were thinking was like he really needs us to support him you know it's like and that's all man you know see the thing about me is that like comedy and like my life

00:31:58Guest:And it's why it's always so hard, like, when I stopped doing it, it's always so hard for me to go back.

00:32:04Guest:Because, like, comedy was never just, like, some art form or business thing.

00:32:09Guest:Like, hey, you're pretty good at this.

00:32:10Guest:You might be able to make it for me.

00:32:12Guest:It was always, like, the thing that defined me, like, where I was working out my thing.

00:32:15Guest:Yeah, me too.

00:32:16Guest:Like, you know, it's like it was life or death in some weird way.

00:32:18Guest:So it's like a war that, like... Yeah.

00:32:20Guest:You remember that movie...

00:32:21Guest:blackhawk down yeah i always remember this man you saw it yeah you remember at the end when they finally get through the thing and the guys are shooting they finally get back to the compound and they're back and they're bleeding and one guy's and one guy goes over and he starts grabbing ammo putting stuff i think it's josh hartnett i remember the actor and he goes what are you doing he goes

00:32:45Guest:We're going back.

00:32:46Guest:There's still a couple of vans there.

00:32:48Guest:He goes, we're going back?

00:32:51Guest:I'm not going back.

00:32:53Guest:What are you, crazy?

00:32:54Guest:And the guy just looks at him and goes, yeah, well, you could go back or not, but you'll live with it the rest of your life.

00:33:00Guest:And then I'm not even sure if he goes back, and I hope he didn't, actually.

00:33:03Guest:But...

00:33:04Guest:But for me, man, like comedy has always been some sort of like on some level, like a war with myself.

00:33:11Guest:I was never a war with the audience.

00:33:13Guest:There's never a war with the club guys.

00:33:15Marc:That was just an excuse, you know?

00:33:16Marc:Right.

00:33:17Marc:And that's what they're watching, though.

00:33:18Marc:I'm the same way.

00:33:19Marc:And that must be why I'm so compelled towards you is that, you know, they're watching a guy like, I don't know who's going to win here with you.

00:33:27Marc:Like, who's going to win that war that's going on on stage with that one guy?

00:33:31Marc:Yeah.

00:33:32Guest:Right, right, right.

00:33:34Guest:this is so interesting that you asked me this because i was thinking about this yeah um it's like the thing is that the best comedy that i ever did see like i got known like you remember some of my bits yeah and i remember like dom was reminding you of a bit like there's bits that people remember of mine like i could write but my best stuff was

00:33:57Guest:when i was working and i just and this developed over years it didn't just happen it just and in fact it developed to the point where when i stopped performing in like mainstream clubs yeah like i'd be doing like the later days of rocky sullivan's with creditco yeah where it would just be me him and like john marshall and there were like a dozen people who listen to bai yeah yeah but they would show up every week right

00:34:20Guest:And then like a handful of stragglers.

00:34:22Guest:But this was like the end days.

00:34:25Guest:Like all the guys would, you know, like real names that were happening were gone.

00:34:29Guest:And so Randy, I had gone to like my last rehab in like 2005.

00:34:34Guest:And when I came out, Randy was still going.

00:34:38Guest:So I was like, I had nothing going.

00:34:40Guest:So I started going with Rocky Sullivan's.

00:34:42Guest:on a Tuesday night, and Randy would be like, hey, like Whitney Brown or Barry Crimmins might show up once in a blue moon.

00:34:49Guest:But mostly it was me and Randy.

00:34:51Guest:And he'd go, well, just go up and do your thing, man.

00:34:53Guest:Go ahead.

00:34:54Guest:So I hadn't performed for a couple years, and I was, again, trying to reclaim my sobriety.

00:34:58Guest:So, of course, there was that first night where I'm doing a set list, like transvestite, Italian guys, like as if I needed to remember that.

00:35:08Guest:Yeah.

00:35:08Guest:And then suddenly I'd start talking about where I'd been the last couple of years.

00:35:13Guest:And then suddenly I'd see everybody got their attention.

00:35:16Guest:Because it's real.

00:35:17Guest:And then week after week, and finally got to the point where I was doing like 45 minutes to an hour.

00:35:23Guest:And I'm telling you, Mark, maybe five minutes was stuff I thought about.

00:35:27Guest:The rest was all off the top of my head.

00:35:30Guest:But this had been developing over years where...

00:35:33Guest:I knew, and it's kind of like a trick.

00:35:38Guest:It's like a magic trick that you really can't sell to any casino.

00:35:42Guest:Here's the thing.

00:35:43Guest:I don't know how I'm going to do this, but if you let me do this.

00:35:47Guest:It might happen.

00:35:48Guest:There's a chance it doesn't.

00:35:50Guest:It's like, well, what do I do?

00:35:51Marc:Here's the pitch.

00:35:52Marc:I'm very inconsistent.

00:35:54Marc:It's really hit or miss.

00:35:56Guest:I can't guarantee you nothing.

00:35:58Guest:But if I hit, it's going to be great for me.

00:36:01Guest:I don't know.

00:36:01Guest:Where are you going with that?

00:36:03Guest:Who are you selling that to?

00:36:04Guest:What agent is going on?

00:36:05Guest:Dan, sit down.

00:36:06Guest:I've been thinking hard on this.

00:36:08Guest:This whole I don't have an act, I don't know what...

00:36:11Guest:I'm going to back you out.

00:36:12Guest:Yeah, really?

00:36:13Guest:But you know what it is, too, man?

00:36:15Guest:But the reason I say this is... But that is a victory in the war that you're talking about.

00:36:19Guest:The war with yourself.

00:36:21Guest:Yes.

00:36:21Guest:Oh, absolutely, Mark.

00:36:23Guest:I got to tell you, but you know what?

00:36:24Guest:I know this might sound like the height of hubris for me to be saying this, but... You have to earn that.

00:36:30Guest:Yes, I have.

00:36:31Guest:I've become...

00:36:34Guest:By not caring?

00:36:35Guest:Yeah.

00:36:36Guest:I've become a way better comedian than from the days when I was really, like, trying to, like, what time's Marathon?

00:36:43Guest:Yeah.

00:36:44Guest:10.50?

00:36:44Guest:Ah, fuck.

00:36:45Guest:Who's got the next spot?

00:36:46Guest:What?

00:36:47Guest:Yeah.

00:36:49Guest:Okay, I can understand a tell, but I should be on before Man for Lardy.

00:36:53Guest:Yeah.

00:36:54Guest:You know what I'm saying?

00:36:55Guest:Sure.

00:36:56Guest:Like, what?

00:36:57Guest:Stu Kamen says to midnight?

00:37:00Guest:But, like, I was trying to find my way in the mainstream of things.

00:37:05Guest:And it's like, yeah, it would have been great if it worked out.

00:37:07Guest:I'd have a great, like, after a pension now.

00:37:10Marc:But I don't think we were trying to find our way in that.

00:37:11Marc:I think we were trying to find ourselves.

00:37:13Marc:I think that's some weird thing about me because, like, I'm in the same way.

00:37:16Marc:I didn't have, like, you know, a plan.

00:37:19Marc:I just wanted to be a fucking comedian on my own terms.

00:37:21Guest:Right.

00:37:22Marc:And I really didn't even take into mind the fact that, like, I wasn't even that concerned with entertaining.

00:37:28Marc:You know what I mean?

00:37:30Marc:It's just sort of like, if this hits, if I hit it, it's going to be great for everybody, right?

00:37:35Marc:Let's just see if that happens.

00:37:37Guest:Now, I do remember this.

00:37:38Guest:Like, when I met you, I'd say that's around 90-ish, early 90s.

00:37:43Guest:At the same time, Hicks had been around, but that's the first time that I became friends with him because he was in New York.

00:37:48Marc:I remember you and I and him went to... Tried to get to Times Square one night.

00:37:53Guest:On New Year's.

00:37:53Guest:Yeah, that was the closest I ever came to it.

00:37:55Guest:Yeah, we got about two blocks.

00:37:56Guest:We didn't get into the crowd.

00:37:57Marc:Yeah, I'm glad we didn't.

00:37:58Marc:And we ran back to the fucking improv.

00:38:00Marc:Right.

00:38:01Marc:Didn't we go see Silence of the Lambs or something?

00:38:03Marc:I don't know if we did.

00:38:04Marc:Maybe you guys did.

00:38:05Marc:I don't remember going to the movies with him.

00:38:06Guest:But I remember, like, me and Hicks hit it off, and we had, like, a real mutual respect society, you know?

00:38:12Guest:Yeah.

00:38:13Guest:And I got to tell you, like, if I ever saw a guy who was less concerned... See, I got to tell you something.

00:38:21Guest:I actually think there is some, like, seed in me of that kid who used to watch the Ed Sullivan show who wanted to, like, sort of entertain.

00:38:29Guest:Yeah, no, yeah.

00:38:30Guest:Like, be Jack Carter or Jan Murray.

00:38:31Guest:Or he wanted to be a comedian.

00:38:32Guest:But, like, I'd watch Hicks sometimes, and it'd be like...

00:38:36Guest:And it's funny looking back.

00:38:37Guest:That is like 20.

00:38:38Marc:He could not get over on New York audiences.

00:38:41Marc:I always felt that he was always angry.

00:38:44Marc:But they just, in a 15-minute chunk for a New York audience, I really think immediately they're like, what is he yelling?

00:38:51Marc:I mean, it was amazing to watch.

00:38:54Guest:There were two guys.

00:38:56Guest:and i guess since i have it doesn't really matter uh but i but i always felt that like he he pushed the you're not digging me card way too soon yeah as i'm sure i did but i think i did it just out of like you know self-collapsing fear yeah just like okay this i you know sweating and like insecure and just like oh my god but like i i got a feeling like

00:39:22Guest:Bill, you know, this isn't a criticism because he was my buddy and he deserves all the, you know, acclaim he's gotten since his death as well.

00:39:31Guest:But I always used to watch and go like, you know, I think he's pushing this like you're not digging me card a little too soon.

00:39:38Guest:Yeah.

00:39:38Guest:And I'm sure that I did that as well.

00:39:40Guest:Yeah.

00:39:41Guest:But I think I was doing mine out of more fear, like, well, yeah, he, he wanted the distance.

00:39:46Marc:I think, I think he, he liked, um, you know, having this singular tone and, and having his own kind of time zone with things like he sort of thrived on that.

00:39:56Marc:that like his you know his whole tone the misanthropy of what he was doing was to establish his point of view and i i don't i don't really believe i think he was an amazing joke writer and i think he knew that and i and i really think he liked having that space to sort of like think out loud without worrying about that right you know i tell you you know one of my proudest moments when he came up to me at the bar one night at the improv and i guess

00:40:22Guest:It's kind of hard to believe that there was a time when, like, people were still listening to stuff on cassette tapes.

00:40:27Guest:Yeah.

00:40:28Guest:And I guess his new comedy album had come out.

00:40:31Guest:Yeah.

00:40:32Guest:And he came over to me and he handed it to me and he goes, hey, man, I just want to give you that.

00:40:35Guest:You really taught me a lot about comedy.

00:40:37Guest:And I was like...

00:40:38Guest:like wow it was like truly one of the most genuine like great compliments like hey yeah that's right my man this is like guy who really people really dig you know it really made you know there's like one of those things that you remember that go like wow man that was special yeah yeah he's still like watching special i remember him sitting in the back of the room and he was the first guy that i ever i think i told brian regan that like brian regan came in and hicks came into the room and he's like i love watching this guy

00:41:06Marc:And I had to sit there, because he appreciated comedy.

00:41:10Marc:You know, Hicks did.

00:41:11Marc:But he was one of those guys where you'd see him, and he was trying to work things out, man.

00:41:16Guest:You know what's great, though?

00:41:18Guest:Brian Regan, who I love Brian Regan.

00:41:20Guest:As a guy, he was a great guy.

00:41:22Guest:But he's a tremendous comedian.

00:41:25Guest:Great.

00:41:25Guest:And they never really seemed to be working a lot of stuff out.

00:41:28Guest:There was a guy who just had great material.

00:41:32Guest:And he did this kind of like he would get into this character.

00:41:35Guest:And then he'd accent it at times.

00:41:37Guest:This really insanely nerdy character.

00:41:41Guest:Weirdos.

00:41:42Guest:And I mean, I haven't seen him in years.

00:41:44Guest:I mean, once in a while, I'll see him on Letterman and all.

00:41:47Guest:Yeah.

00:41:48Guest:I mean, there was a guy, see, he was almost like a true direct lineage of those guys that we were talking about, like the Ed Sullivan guys, the Tonight Show guys, Mike Douglas here.

00:41:59Guest:Because there was no, like, you never saw Brian and thought, oh, boy, Brian's had a rough day.

00:42:05Guest:I wonder if he's going to get over on the crowd tonight.

00:42:09Guest:Let me tell you something.

00:42:10Guest:No matter how he does tonight, he's on his way to detox.

00:42:13Guest:There was never any of that, man.

00:42:15Guest:Guy would come in, and everybody would be happy.

00:42:18Guest:He was like Hickey in Nice Man Cometh.

00:42:20Guest:He'd come in, and all the denizens of the bar would go, hey, Brian's here.

00:42:25Guest:They'd go in, and it was like 20 minutes of joy watching a really footy comedian.

00:42:30Guest:And you'd go...

00:42:31Guest:You'd laugh.

00:42:33Guest:And then he would go into the night.

00:42:35Guest:There was no like, hey, can you get me something?

00:42:37Guest:None of that.

00:42:38Guest:Like, I had to cut him off.

00:42:41Guest:It was so refreshing.

00:42:42Marc:Yeah.

00:42:42Marc:Well, I think we romanticized that shit.

00:42:44Marc:Oh, way too much, man.

00:42:47Marc:But just out of curiosity, though.

00:42:52Marc:So, like, what was the beginning?

00:42:54Marc:When did you first come in and start doing comedy?

00:42:56Marc:How old were you?

00:42:56Guest:Well, I moved to the city.

00:42:58Guest:I guess I was like...

00:43:02Guest:I want to say I was 19.

00:43:04Guest:I might have been, like, just turned 20.

00:43:05Guest:I went to college for, like, a year.

00:43:07Guest:I was, like, a year late getting out of high school.

00:43:10Guest:Yeah.

00:43:10Guest:Because I'd cut classes for, like, the better part of three years.

00:43:14Guest:So it took me, like, a year to, like, find.

00:43:17Guest:Then they had, like, what they called a free school.

00:43:19Guest:Yeah.

00:43:19Guest:It was, like, from the Billy Jack thing where it was, like, these hippie teachers in the early 70s who you'd sit around on, like, foam talking about your feelings.

00:43:28Guest:And I saw that, and I went, oh, there's my ticket out.

00:43:32Guest:Because, like,

00:43:32Guest:so i went and then i went to like a community college and i saw community college uh i was gonna be like an actor and all that but i was always like funny and i kind of knew that that's the thing i wanted to do so i guess i was like about maybe i just turned 20 and i just was like you know my father's coffee shop was now there weren't really that many it was just those guys hanging out and like yeah those strippers from the uh the coach car in across the road there

00:43:59Guest:So I remember one day I just made up my mind.

00:44:02Guest:I met a guy.

00:44:03Guest:He was like some old doctor, and he knew somebody in the village would rent me a room for like, I mean, this is in the 70s.

00:44:10Guest:So it was like 30, 35 bucks a week for like a furnished room.

00:44:15Guest:So I was like, hey, you know what?

00:44:16Guest:I'm doing this.

00:44:17Guest:Yeah.

00:44:18Guest:So one day, I always remember this.

00:44:22Guest:There was these strippers.

00:44:23Guest:I forget.

00:44:24Guest:Her name was Chrissy or something.

00:44:25Guest:And, you know, like when you're like 19 or 20 and you're still like, you know, maybe like you've got some baby fat and a couple of people and some stripper, some jaded.

00:44:34Guest:It's like, you know, like, oh, my God.

00:44:36Guest:So I was like trying to impress her.

00:44:38Guest:I told her like, you know, I'm moving to the city.

00:44:40Guest:I'm going to go after my, you know, be an actor.

00:44:43Guest:And she got so nervous.

00:44:45Guest:She butted out her cigarette and started screaming.

00:44:47Guest:to my father nick you better talk to this kid he's out of his mind he thinks he's getting on that train and he's gonna go into the city and be an actor and i was like why is this scaring you so you know i mean like i realized like she probably had like some dreams that she could never so i tell you man i had like some beat up it's almost like you know

00:45:07Guest:Like a Lou Reed song, standing on a corner, a suitcase.

00:45:11Guest:I mean, I hit the city.

00:45:12Guest:I had the room.

00:45:13Guest:I was working in some, like, bad jobs.

00:45:16Guest:And, you know, man, I just went out, and I just, like, did open mics, and I sucked.

00:45:21Marc:Were it, like, in the village?

00:45:23Guest:Well, this is, like, 70s.

00:45:25Guest:So, like, the places that even if I could remember their names, they've long...

00:45:30Guest:Oh, I mean, I would go to the improv.

00:45:32Guest:You could audition once a month.

00:45:33Guest:Yeah.

00:45:33Guest:Or you can go to the comic strip and audition once a month.

00:45:35Guest:Or catch.

00:45:36Guest:You could go once a week.

00:45:37Guest:Yeah.

00:45:38Guest:And I would go.

00:45:39Guest:And, like, in the early days, like, I wasn't even, like, modeling myself after, like, say, Rodney.

00:45:45Guest:Yeah.

00:45:45Guest:Do you remember?

00:45:46Guest:I'm sure you probably don't even remember this comedian.

00:45:47Guest:Jackie Vernon.

00:45:48Guest:Yeah.

00:45:49Guest:I love Jackie Vernon.

00:45:50Guest:He had that real deadpan.

00:45:51Marc:He would do those ones.

00:45:53Guest:with the slideshow yeah brilliant i loved him but the thing is that was a subtle kind of thing that like a guy spends years developing yeah and i was like a 20 year old kid who thought i was going to be like the next jackie verton i was writing all these one-liners it's weird because he was the first guy that really resonated me it's weird that you really yeah i went and saw him with my parents when he came to albuquerque new mexico when i was like 11 or 12 years old because i was such a huge fan and he was doing these lounges you know he did the hilton inn the lounge at the hilton inn

00:46:21Marc:And I was like, I begged my parents to take me.

00:46:23Marc:And they took me.

00:46:24Marc:And I sat right up front and watched Jackie Vernon.

00:46:26Marc:And it changed my life, you know?

00:46:28Guest:Really?

00:46:29Guest:Yeah.

00:46:29Guest:Oh, OK.

00:46:30Guest:So then, yeah.

00:46:30Guest:I know.

00:46:31Guest:But I was up there, man.

00:46:32Guest:I was trying to do these, like, one-liners.

00:46:34Guest:And it was just, it really was anything.

00:46:37Guest:But I started meeting some guys.

00:46:39Guest:Do you remember a guy?

00:46:40Guest:I don't know if you know him.

00:46:41Guest:His name was Terry Day.

00:46:43Guest:I was like 20.

00:46:44Guest:I was sitting on line outside of catch every Monday.

00:46:46Guest:You'd sit on line.

00:46:47Guest:And Terry Day was like about 40, 40-something.

00:46:50Guest:And he'd come in from San Francisco.

00:46:52Guest:And he was like kind of older and hipper.

00:46:55Guest:And he'd like watch me.

00:46:56Guest:And he'd go like, you know.

00:46:58Guest:You got something.

00:46:59Guest:It's not there yet.

00:47:00Guest:But like, I think you and you know, I just I just really couldn't put it together, man.

00:47:06Guest:And then I'd work like there was a buddy of mine, this guy, Tom Saunders.

00:47:10Guest:I think he wound up writing like for Arrested Development.

00:47:13Guest:But we were like a comedy team.

00:47:15Guest:Yeah.

00:47:16Guest:And we were doing like sketches.

00:47:17Guest:Yeah.

00:47:18Guest:And so we were at the comic strip.

00:47:21Guest:And then I got into some plays.

00:47:23Guest:I was doing some acting.

00:47:24Guest:And so then that was going to be the thing.

00:47:26Guest:I was going to be like Marlon Brando.

00:47:28Guest:Right.

00:47:29Guest:And then finally, I started hanging out in the village.

00:47:34Guest:They're not there anymore.

00:47:36Guest:The Bitter End is still there.

00:47:39Guest:But next to the Bitter End was a place called The Dugout.

00:47:41Guest:Yeah.

00:47:42Guest:And it was just this funky place.

00:47:44Guest:beat up joint and there was this woman named Rosie and she was like a real big heavy broad and she would like she was like a real village character and she would run this Monday night show and all these lunatics would go up and my buddy Neil was the bartender there and he goes hey I'll talk to Rosie I'll put you up

00:48:01Guest:And it was the first place.

00:48:03Guest:It was sawdust on the floor and some drunken NYU kids.

00:48:07Guest:But I go up, and it was the first place, say, around 81, 82, that I started feeling like I started developing a voice.

00:48:16Guest:I'd have to go up with some jokes.

00:48:18Guest:But then what became funnier was the space between the jokes, the being on stage.

00:48:26Guest:Yeah.

00:48:27Guest:Around that time, a guy comes in one night, and he goes, Danny, I want you to meet my friend Rockets.

00:48:33Guest:Do you remember Rockets Red Glare?

00:48:34Guest:Yeah.

00:48:35Guest:So Rockets was watching me, and he wanted to be a comedian.

00:48:39Guest:Yeah.

00:48:40Guest:So he's like, hey, man, maybe you could do some of these things with me in the East Village.

00:48:45Guest:So I had this sort of little run in the East Village.

00:48:49Guest:Actually, you know who was hanging out?

00:48:51Guest:Remember Steve Buscemi?

00:48:52Guest:Steve Buscemi?

00:48:52Guest:Sure.

00:48:53Guest:Was like a buddy with Rockets.

00:48:54Guest:Yeah.

00:48:54Guest:Oh, and then the big thing that really probably helped me go from being this non-entity to being any sort of entity was that Dave Heenan was quite a character.

00:49:05Guest:I remember him.

00:49:06Guest:You remember Heenan?

00:49:06Guest:Yeah.

00:49:07Guest:So he came up to me.

00:49:08Guest:I knew Dave from The Village.

00:49:10Guest:Yeah.

00:49:10Guest:And he goes, Danny, I'm going to federal prison.

00:49:14Guest:I need you to watch my gig.

00:49:16Guest:So he gave me... I took over the Tuesday night at the Bitterrand.

00:49:20Guest:And it was just like the beginning of my life.

00:49:24Guest:Because it was like they'd let me drink.

00:49:28Guest:I could drink.

00:49:29Guest:And because I was the emcee and there was no real... I could go up there and do as much time as I wanted to.

00:49:37Guest:And so sometimes they would like...

00:49:40Guest:like the person booking the joint would ask me, like, can you put Dennis Blair on?

00:49:44Guest:I'd be like, yeah, okay, I put Dennis Blair on.

00:49:47Guest:But most of the time, it would be like, you know, it was just like guys trying to get on, and it'd be like, yeah, come on out, man, but I'll put you... And I actually had, like, a little following...

00:49:56Guest:And so all of a sudden I'd be like on, you know, it was a great stage too, man, because I had like room to move.

00:50:03Guest:And I was still kind of skinny.

00:50:05Guest:I was like skinny in those days.

00:50:06Guest:I was like kind of handsome.

00:50:08Guest:So like, you know, and it was like that first beautiful moment, that sweet spot where like booze is working for you.

00:50:17Guest:It's not working against you.

00:50:18Guest:the coke was coming around but like you couldn't really afford to get too crazy anyway yeah and like you just had this freedom because you didn't care yeah you know like yeah and uh i did that for like about i'd say a year like every tuesday and i probably did like a couple of hours every tuesday and then i'd go do these other little and guys would come up to me and go like uh

00:50:40Guest:you know man you're really good you should be like at the improv like you're better than a lot of guys that catch in the improv i was like yeah man i should be at the improv yeah so i walk by the improv and i look in through the window and i see dom who i knew yeah from knocking around yeah so i walk in i see a rarer and he's talking to some like really skinny guy with like who'd like

00:51:03Guest:pale, almost like white skin, who looks like he's going to die.

00:51:07Guest:I said, hey, Dom, hey, man, I saw you in the window.

00:51:10Guest:How you doing?

00:51:10Guest:He's like, yeah, Danny.

00:51:11Guest:He goes, hey, you know David?

00:51:13Guest:It was freaking David Bowie.

00:51:15Guest:He was talking to Bowie.

00:51:16Guest:And it was like, this is like around 82.

00:51:18Guest:So I was like, oh, this is like the place.

00:51:22Guest:You know, I've got Steve Forbert hanging out at the Bitter Red.

00:51:25Guest:This is like hanging out with Bowie.

00:51:28Guest:So...

00:51:30Guest:You know, I auditioned, and I'd really become a good comedian.

00:51:34Guest:You know, whatever.

00:51:36Guest:Oh, no, yeah, yeah.

00:51:36Guest:In my 20s, you know.

00:51:38Guest:And Silver would not pass me.

00:51:41Guest:The weird thing is that all the guys.

00:51:42Guest:Silver Friedman.

00:51:43Guest:Silver Friedman, who ran the club, she just wouldn't pass me.

00:51:46Guest:And I would go in.

00:51:48Guest:And what's weird was that all the guys who, like, were already at the improv knew me because they would come down to the other clubs that I was doing, like Sweeps and the Bitter End, try and get, like, spots that paid on the weekends.

00:51:59Yeah.

00:51:59Guest:So they'd be like... When they'd bring me up on the audition night, they didn't bring me up.

00:52:02Guest:They'd be like, oh, this guy, one of my favorite comedians.

00:52:06Guest:And I'd go up, and I mean, like, I'm telling you, Mark, I would chill.

00:52:09Guest:I would, like, hammer.

00:52:10Guest:I would bang the room, and the woman would not pass me.

00:52:15Guest:And then, like, one night after just, like... I mean, like, annihilating the room, like, what...

00:52:20Guest:And she just like sort of in a way that you're like, well, everyone else seems to think you're pretty funny.

00:52:29Guest:So she passed me.

00:52:31Guest:And to her credit, it's like I don't want to paint like that bad a picture of her because she did like jump me right in.

00:52:38Guest:Like usually if you passed in those days.

00:52:40Marc:Yeah, you got to start late nighting.

00:52:41Guest:In the 80s.

00:52:42Guest:Yeah, it was like late night and you're hanging around.

00:52:45Guest:And she let me jump to the head of the line in a hurry.

00:52:47Guest:Yeah.

00:52:48Guest:I almost immediately started emceeing weekend shows and getting good, those 11, 10, 50 spots.

00:52:56Guest:Yeah.

00:52:56Guest:So I got going real quick.

00:52:59Guest:And it was just a matter of months.

00:53:00Guest:And then one night-

00:53:02Guest:This woman, Sherry Fortis, came in.

00:53:04Guest:She was looking at people for Lorne Michaels.

00:53:07Guest:It was called The New Show.

00:53:08Guest:Right.

00:53:09Guest:It was the first show he was doing after he left SNL in 1980.

00:53:13Guest:Right.

00:53:14Guest:So this is like around 83.

00:53:16Guest:Yeah.

00:53:17Guest:So she came in.

00:53:18Guest:She caught me on a great night.

00:53:20Guest:And called me into audition for Lorne.

00:53:24Guest:And talk about, you know, like when you say, this isn't working.

00:53:28Guest:I remember going in, like everybody was there.

00:53:31Guest:It was like right around here.

00:53:32Guest:It was like 54th Street.

00:53:33Guest:There was like some big studio.

00:53:35Guest:So when I got to the audition, man, it was like...

00:53:38Guest:you know, in the afternoon.

00:53:40Guest:And, you know, I'm like a night creature.

00:53:41Guest:Yeah.

00:53:42Guest:So I was like, I'm there to audition for Lorne Michaels.

00:53:45Guest:And so there was everybody that you ever, but like not just like comedians.

00:53:50Guest:It was like Uncle Floyd was there.

00:53:52Guest:It was like guys you saw like on cable, late night cable TV.

00:53:56Marc:Uncle Floyd, I think, is Jimmy Vivino's brother.

00:53:59Marc:Is that right?

00:53:59Marc:I mean, Uncle... Oh, that sounds like it could be right.

00:54:02Marc:The guitar player for Conan.

00:54:03Guest:I think he still performs in New Jersey.

00:54:05Guest:He still has the show, right?

00:54:06Guest:Is that Floyd Vivino?

00:54:07Guest:You know, Jimmy, yeah, that sounds right.

00:54:10Marc:I think it is.

00:54:10Marc:I just learned that, like, two weeks ago.

00:54:12Guest:Yeah, I guess I always... It was, like, one of those things you kind of knew.

00:54:15Guest:Yeah, I did.

00:54:16Guest:Like, you know, Justin Timberlake and Ryan Gosling were roommates when they were in the Disney... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:21Guest:...where they were Mouseketeers.

00:54:22Guest:Yeah, that's crazy, right?

00:54:23Guest:Yeah.

00:54:24Guest:So they were all there, and I remember thinking, like, hey, I'm getting a little nervous, you know?

00:54:28Guest:This is, like, a big deal.

00:54:29Guest:Because, like, Lord Michaels... Yeah.

00:54:31Guest:So I go downstairs, and there was a bar there, and I figure I'll just have, like, that one shot to...

00:54:37Guest:And I did.

00:54:38Guest:I just had, like, a stiff shot of Jack Daniels.

00:54:40Guest:And then I went back up.

00:54:41Guest:And I remember, like, Alan Havy, who wound up getting the show, he was there.

00:54:45Guest:And he had a bit about, like, soap on a rope.

00:54:48Guest:And he had the soap around his neck.

00:54:50Guest:And I was like, yeah, I'm not doing any props for this.

00:54:53Guest:I'm just going to go in.

00:54:54Guest:So, again, this is, like, the first time that being, like, the guy who thinks he's going to work the moment.

00:55:01Guest:So I go into this room.

00:55:03Guest:And it wasn't just Lorne Michaels.

00:55:04Guest:It was literally, like...

00:55:06Guest:All these people that you kind of revered from not only SNL, but SCTV, like Dave Thomas.

00:55:15Guest:And I think Candy might have been there.

00:55:17Guest:And I'm pretty sure Penny Marshall was there.

00:55:20Guest:There's just all these people.

00:55:21Guest:Buck Henry.

00:55:22Guest:There's all these guys that you'd grown up.

00:55:25Guest:In the audience.

00:55:26Guest:Just sitting at this sort of big desk with Lorne.

00:55:31Guest:So I got up.

00:55:32Guest:And somebody said, oh, this is Dan Vitale.

00:55:35Guest:And I said, hey, it's great.

00:55:39Guest:Yeah, guys.

00:55:39Guest:You know, I was coming down.

00:55:40Guest:And I started to try and get that rhythm going.

00:55:45Guest:Because my material never was just like, oh, here's the material.

00:55:48Guest:You got to work in organically.

00:55:50Guest:Hey, man, you know, I woke up today.

00:55:51Guest:And it's like, yeah, so I'm going to audition for it.

00:55:54Guest:And I started doing the thing, and they were not reacting at all.

00:55:57Guest:They were just staring blankly, and it took like a minute or two, and I just went, hey, you know what?

00:56:04Guest:I got a better idea.

00:56:05Guest:Why don't all you fucking people go fuck yourselves, man?

00:56:11Guest:I grabbed my jacket.

00:56:12Guest:I went, yeah, shove it.

00:56:13Guest:Are you going to sit there, fucking stare at me?

00:56:15Guest:Go fuck you, man.

00:56:17Guest:And I walked out, and I was like punching the elevator, and Sherry Fortis came out, and she went,

00:56:22Guest:Dan, she had seen me at the improv killer.

00:56:25Guest:He was like, oh, here's my new find.

00:56:27Guest:And she went, what happened?

00:56:31Guest:I went, I don't know.

00:56:33Guest:She goes, Dan, Lorne had told everybody to not react because they would burn themselves out laughing, trying to laugh at everybody, and it would come off disingenuous.

00:56:42Guest:That's why they weren't.

00:56:43Guest:But they were listening to you.

00:56:44Guest:And I went, I'm so.

00:56:46Guest:I went home, and it was just like my first big audition.

00:56:50Guest:So I'm like, I don't know.

00:56:52Guest:It might have been like Pat.

00:56:54Guest:Pat Buckles was like managing and I don't know, whatever it was.

00:56:58Guest:I got somebody to call Sherry and explain that Dan was, you know.

00:57:04Guest:So they actually let me come back and audition again.

00:57:07Guest:and for some reason the second time like i just kind of like i did a spin on what i had done right and what a jerk i'd been and now i was like really kissing up to them yeah and it was another one of those like sort of improv moments but this time it worked right and i just saw lawn like lauren kind of like nodding like okay now i get you yeah

00:57:29Guest:And he actually... I mean, I wound up doing the new show, and I did a pilot for my own sitcom with Joe Mantegna called Big Shots in America.

00:57:38Guest:And then I got hired for his first season back.

00:57:41Guest:But he was actually sort of like my mentor for like...

00:57:44Guest:I'd say like two, two and a half years where like I would be up in his office like almost every week.

00:57:49Guest:He'd have me up to his apartment.

00:57:50Guest:He was taking me out.

00:57:51Guest:He got me some development money from NBC to not go work anywhere.

00:57:56Guest:So it was like the first like real time of my life.

00:58:00Marc:What did you learn from him, though, when he sat and talked to him?

00:58:02Marc:I mean, what was the impression?

00:58:04Guest:You know, one thing that jumps out at me that it's funny coming from this conversation that I always remember was like, because, you know, like the other night me and you were talking on the phone real quick and I just went like, Mark, I'd love to do the podcast, but the sooner the better because I fold under pressure.

00:58:19Guest:Right.

00:58:19Guest:Like if I have another day to think of it, I may think of a reason that I can't do.

00:58:24Guest:So Lauren would say to me like sometimes when like I would like, he'd go, you know, he'd see me, he'd come to the improv all the time and he'd bring in people and come in like a lot.

00:58:34Guest:And he said, you know, man, he goes, really great comedians got to stand up there and take the bullets.

00:58:40Guest:And I don't think you're ready.

00:58:41Guest:You know what I mean?

00:58:42Guest:Like you don't, you're not there yet.

00:58:45Guest:You don't just take the bullets.

00:58:47Guest:You like fold under the bullet.

00:58:49Guest:You know what I mean?

00:58:50Guest:Like in a great cop movie, the guy's like shooting it out.

00:58:54Guest:Like I'm the guy who got shot at.

00:58:56Guest:Stumbling the gun.

00:58:57Guest:Like, you know, Barney Fife or something, you know, like with the.

00:59:00Guest:Yeah.

00:59:01Guest:Yeah.

00:59:01Guest:So.

00:59:02Guest:uh like looking back that was really uh it's something that i always remembered because i got you know like even like at rocky sullivan's i get up there and i go like i know i'm gonna do like close to an hour and i know i'm gonna wind up having fun but these first 10 minutes are going to be dreadfully painful yeah i just got to get through i have to like you know what i mean and that's something i couldn't do when i was younger

00:59:26Guest:but um what did i learn from him you know looking back he was a great guy and he really i've thought about him a lot over the years it's like you know there was the first guy who really made me feel special like like you know i mean like really said like you know you got like you got something special and he really tried to give me opportunities

00:59:48Guest:In terms of mentoring, no.

00:59:51Guest:He didn't have anything to offer.

00:59:54Guest:You would think that he might have been a guy who'd seen all these guys come.

00:59:58Guest:You understand, this was the 80s.

01:00:00Guest:I'm sure that some of the people that he had to deal with hadn't come later.

01:00:04Guest:Like the Chris Farley, the guys like that.

01:00:07Guest:So...

01:00:09Guest:I don't know.

01:00:10Guest:He made me just... It was like that feeling of special, like feeling like you have a unique talent.

01:00:17Guest:You deserve to be doing this.

01:00:20Guest:It's kind of like... I tell you, man, I've made peace with it.

01:00:23Guest:I made peace with it a long time ago.

01:00:25Guest:But I can't help but think sometimes.

01:00:27Guest:I mean, Mark, I'm not saying this out of... I was like... I didn't get...

01:00:34Guest:I got into the candy store.

01:00:35Guest:I didn't get up the ladder to that, like, nice jar.

01:00:39Guest:But, man, I got into the store.

01:00:41Guest:I have a friend of mine who uses that metaphor.

01:00:43Guest:He goes, nah, you really got, like, more, like, to the window.

01:00:46Guest:You were, like, close, but you're looking in.

01:00:49Guest:But, like, I kind of felt like I got into the store, and I just didn't have it to, like, get up that ladder to the thing.

01:00:55Guest:But I got into the... I think I feel like that I got into a door that a lot of guys never get in that door, so I should be very grateful.

01:01:02Guest:Right.

01:01:04Guest:I've often thought this, and I don't know.

01:01:08Marc:What exactly happened?

01:01:09Marc:So you did the pilot, you did the show, and then you're signed up to be a featured player on SNL.

01:01:17Marc:Okay, what happened was...

01:01:20Guest:You know, sad.

01:01:21Guest:The wheels came off almost immediately.

01:01:24Guest:No one saw.

01:01:26Guest:Like, I guess the wheels came off.

01:01:29Guest:I must have had the donut on because I managed to, when you're really looking back at where I was at, the fact that I got a couple of year run.

01:01:37Guest:Lauren was doing that show, the new show.

01:01:40Guest:Yeah.

01:01:41Guest:And so, like, I guess, like, me and Havy were, like, the guys who nobody ever knew of.

01:01:45Guest:And then he had all these guys like Candy and Dave Thomas, Buck Henry.

01:01:50Guest:So they would work us into sketches.

01:01:52Guest:And then, like...

01:01:54Guest:But for some reason, Lauren, like, you know, bring me into those.

01:01:56Guest:And I just remember one day, like, we were making, like, after a scale.

01:02:00Guest:And this guy came over and said, hey, Dan, I'm Jim, blah, blah, blah.

01:02:03Guest:I'm one of the associate producers.

01:02:05Guest:Lauren wants to offer you a contract.

01:02:06Guest:It's going to be $1,500 a week.

01:02:09Guest:And you're like, you know, I was making $15, you know.

01:02:13Guest:Yeah.

01:02:14Guest:I had had like a little coke problem at that point.

01:02:17Guest:Yeah.

01:02:18Guest:And, you know, the first thing that happens when you're not making money and you have a little coke problem and then you're making a whole bunch of money at once, you suddenly have a big coke problem, man.

01:02:31Guest:And I was like, but it's funny.

01:02:34Guest:Like, I've always been, like, thought, like, guys like me and you say, for example, we're kind of hip.

01:02:40Guest:Like, we get the types.

01:02:41Guest:Yeah.

01:02:41Guest:We see the people.

01:02:42Guest:We go, like, man, I would never be like this.

01:02:44Guest:Do you see this showbiz asshole over here?

01:02:47Guest:Yeah.

01:02:48Guest:Yeah.

01:02:49Guest:Yeah.

01:02:50Guest:The minute I was making the bread, I was starting to get, like, a little TV time, I became, like, the biggest, like, you know, like, walk in, like, hey, how are the boys doing tonight?

01:03:02Guest:Yeah, going to do your little 20 minutes?

01:03:04Guest:Yeah.

01:03:04Guest:Am I on?

01:03:05Guest:And I'd be like...

01:03:06Guest:like like like like looking back like you know like what did spots pay in the if you really think about it like so say it's like the 1980s i think he made like ten dollars a night at the improv yeah which everybody takes the 10 yeah like seinfeld would take the 10 yeah he might tip a waitress or something but nobody ever turned down the car she'd come in and be working on the show come in and

01:03:32Guest:And it'd be like, can I get on?

01:03:34Guest:Yeah, all right.

01:03:35Guest:It's like, put Dan on.

01:03:36Guest:He's doing some TV.

01:03:37Guest:And I'd go in the bathroom and I'd be like, wah, wah.

01:03:41Guest:I realized I would probably spend like $100 or $200 just for like a $10 set.

01:03:47Guest:And then like call the comedy seller, you know, talk to, you know.

01:03:51Marc:Manny?

01:03:52Guest:Rick Crow.

01:03:53Guest:Rick, I'm in a cab.

01:03:55Guest:So I'd jump in a cab and I'd be like, hey, look the other way.

01:04:00Guest:I'd make $25 a night doing comedy and spend hundreds of dollars running around.

01:04:05Guest:It kind of was fun.

01:04:08Guest:So the new show, I remember it was the lowest rated show that year on television.

01:04:15Guest:In fact, Miami Vice took its time slot.

01:04:18Guest:Yeah.

01:04:18Guest:So then Lorne called me in the office and said, listen, I'm going to get you some money from NBC.

01:04:23Guest:It's like developing money.

01:04:25Guest:You know, at the time, it was pretty good.

01:04:26Guest:It really wasn't that much money.

01:04:28Guest:Like 20, 25 grand, something like that.

01:04:31Guest:So...

01:04:33Guest:He wound up, he was going to produce a pilot.

01:04:36Guest:And it was called Big Shots in America.

01:04:39Guest:And James Burroughs directed it.

01:04:41Guest:Bernie Brillstein.

01:04:42Guest:I mean, like, all the heavyweights were there.

01:04:43Guest:This thing looked like it was, like, going to be a monster.

01:04:46Guest:Mountaine was in it.

01:04:47Guest:Christine Baranski, whatever.

01:04:49Guest:Good people.

01:04:50Guest:And the thing just, it just didn't work.

01:04:53Guest:So, but I made a lot of money, you know, relative at the time.

01:04:58Guest:Sure, sure.

01:04:59Guest:doing that but you know what by the time we did the pilot man i'd already started like like i'd already started falling apart like it had swung the other way yeah we're like the booze had like taken over it wasn't just like okay he's a little crazy this is fun it's like nah this guy is really like

01:05:22Guest:uncomfortable to be around and like he did sign a contract and we have to pay him so we we might as well use him I remember like shooting that pilot man up at 8h we shot the pilot at 8h and I remember like

01:05:37Guest:I just was like, you know, not doing that.

01:05:42Guest:I mean, it was like shooting a pilot in front of a live audience to begin with.

01:05:48Guest:I'd been in plays and I'd acted, but like this was it.

01:05:51Guest:And like Lorne, whatever he nurtured and mentored as like a comedic, he wasn't like a people guy.

01:05:58Guest:Like people would say like, you know, I've never seen him lose his mind at people except with you.

01:06:04Guest:And he would just like be screaming.

01:06:06Guest:Like...

01:06:06Guest:You know, from behind a camera, there'd be a red light on a camera.

01:06:10Guest:He'd be like, just do the fucking lines.

01:06:13Guest:God damn.

01:06:13Guest:You know, and then, like, I remember Joe Montaigne, who I still, to this day, he'd come over and go, like, hey, man, screw that.

01:06:20Guest:Just look in my eyes.

01:06:22Guest:We'd do this, you know?

01:06:23Guest:Yeah.

01:06:23Guest:And I do remember, like, I mean, it was hell.

01:06:27Guest:It was really hell.

01:06:28Guest:And that guy, Jim Burroughs, who's, like, arguably one of the most successful producer, directors in sitcom history.

01:06:34Guest:That guy, I'm pretty sure he loathed me from the moment, you know, like, he got stuck with me.

01:06:40Guest:What were you doing?

01:06:40Guest:You were just improv-ing, or you were just not... No, it was a sitcom.

01:06:43Guest:I was, like, the Fonzie character.

01:06:45Guest:I was, like, the Fonzie guy.

01:06:47Marc:So what was the fundamental problem?

01:06:50Marc:What were you not getting?

01:06:51Guest:Because I was, like...

01:06:52Guest:I was drunk.

01:06:55Guest:Let's put it this way.

01:06:56Guest:I was drunk at night and then coming into rehearsal scared.

01:07:00Guest:Yeah.

01:07:01Guest:And then as soon as I started getting yelled at, I'd go out and get drunk.

01:07:06Guest:So at a certain point, all I knew was there was a red light there.

01:07:10Guest:Oh, and this is a weird thing, man.

01:07:13Guest:I guess because Lorne had never produced a sitcom, he had guys with...

01:07:19Guest:I remember him arguing with Jim Burrow.

01:07:21Guest:I heard that they were arguing because he had guys with cue cards there.

01:07:27Guest:And I heard someone go, no, nobody does cue cards in a sitcom.

01:07:31Guest:And that's like live TV stuff.

01:07:34Guest:But somehow or another, I'm sure this is one of the few sitcoms that was ever shot where a guy was actually holding a cue card like you would if you were doing it.

01:07:43Guest:You know what the weird thing is?

01:07:44Guest:I actually have a copy of it somewhere.

01:07:46Guest:Yeah.

01:07:47Guest:And I remember, like, years ago, my friend Chris Murphy.

01:07:50Guest:Yeah, I remember Murphy.

01:07:51Guest:Is he all right?

01:07:52Guest:Yeah, he's good.

01:07:52Guest:Okay.

01:07:53Guest:He had some problems.

01:07:54Guest:He pulled through, man.

01:07:55Guest:Good.

01:07:55Guest:Yeah, he's a good guy.

01:07:56Guest:So I just remember going to his apartment.

01:07:58Guest:I said, hey, man, I haven't looked at this.

01:07:59Guest:This is, like, eight years later or something.

01:08:02Guest:So we put it in the, I guess it was like a VHS in those days.

01:08:06Guest:And I went, well, you're about to watch a man in complete blackout drunk perform a sitcom shot before a live audience at 8-H Studio.

01:08:15Guest:Yeah.

01:08:15Guest:And we watched the thing, and the credits rolled.

01:08:17Guest:Joe Mantegna, Dan Vitale.

01:08:20Guest:And we watched the thing, and it wasn't great.

01:08:24Guest:But I tell you, the weird thing is, you almost wouldn't know that I was drunk.

01:08:27Guest:I mean, Jim Burroughs.

01:08:29Guest:I'm sure if you were interviewing him next, and he walked in the door, he'd probably turn around.

01:08:35Guest:If he remembered me.

01:08:36Guest:Probably wouldn't remember.

01:08:37Guest:But here's the weird thing, man.

01:08:39Guest:You would have thought that that would have brought everything down to a screeching halt.

01:08:43Guest:A couple of months...

01:08:44Guest:And Lorne announced he was going back to take SNL over in 1985.

01:08:51Guest:And I went up to the offices.

01:08:54Guest:And he made me audition with everybody.

01:08:57Guest:But the cast that year was like Robert Downey Jr.

01:09:00Guest:and Randy Quaid.

01:09:02Guest:It was great.

01:09:03Guest:And I showed up.

01:09:05Guest:Here's the weird thing.

01:09:06Guest:I think I showed up drunk at one of the auditions.

01:09:09Guest:Yet he called me to the yours and I remember sitting in the office.

01:09:14Guest:So this is like the fall of 1985.

01:09:15Guest:Yeah, and he went All right, tell down he's agent 3000 a week.

01:09:21Guest:See if you could do, you know, yeah, Robert was like 20 years old He's like, all right, and then he looked at me and he went Dan in the words of The Kennedy brothers talking about LBJ

01:09:37Guest:I'm hiring you.

01:09:39Guest:I'd rather have you inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in.

01:09:45Guest:And what did that mean to you?

01:09:47Guest:I guess it meant, like, I've spent a couple years trying to develop stuff with you.

01:09:52Guest:Now I've got this thing I'm doing, and if I don't hire you, it would be just my luck for you to be a...

01:10:00Guest:to hit on some other venue and attack me.

01:10:02Guest:Right.

01:10:03Guest:And so, like, he still believed in me enough that way.

01:10:06Guest:Yeah.

01:10:07Guest:But, you know, it was really weird, man.

01:10:08Guest:It was, like, almost like because... And I wasn't probably doing so much to dissuade everybody.

01:10:15Guest:But, like, I showed up, man.

01:10:17Guest:And, you know, like, Lovitz had his desk and, you know...

01:10:22Guest:He was like, oh, who's a great guy?

01:10:24Guest:Robert Smigel.

01:10:25Guest:He was the only guy who would talk to me.

01:10:27Guest:He had a little office with this guy, John Schwarzwelder.

01:10:31Guest:He wound up being one of the original Simpsons guys.

01:10:35Guest:And Smigel was just a new guy there.

01:10:37Guest:And my desk, it was almost like I was loitering.

01:10:42Guest:And then I'd go get drunk.

01:10:46Guest:No one was really including me in.

01:10:48Guest:So then I'd go in, I'd talk to Smigel, and

01:10:50Marc:He's a sweet guy, Smigel.

01:10:52Guest:And then you know who else was up there who I became pretty good friends with at the time?

01:10:55Guest:I remember Bruce McCullough.

01:10:57Guest:From the kids in the hall?

01:10:58Guest:Yeah, and Mark McKinney.

01:10:59Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:11:00Guest:For some reason, just those two guys from the kids in the hall were hired as writers, but they were like complete raw rookies.

01:11:07Guest:I'd just go hang out with the kids, man.

01:11:11Guest:And then all the film guys, like James Signorelli had the film unit.

01:11:16Guest:And I knew that the film guys had a refrigerator with beer.

01:11:20Guest:So if I'd run through my money, I'd go hang out with the film.

01:11:25Guest:Hey, guys, what are you shooting?

01:11:28Guest:That's great.

01:11:28Guest:You mind?

01:11:29Guest:And I remember Madonna was hosting the first show.

01:11:33Guest:And I guess she had married Sean Penn just not long before that.

01:11:37Guest:So these guys really dug me, McCullough and McKinney.

01:11:42Guest:They were just getting started.

01:11:44Guest:And they wrote a sketch for me with Madonna as this, like, of own guy who, like, has a date with her.

01:11:50Guest:And they came to me and they went, you know, man, Lauren just went...

01:11:55Guest:Like, in other words, and, you know, justifiably so.

01:11:59Guest:He didn't trust me.

01:12:01Guest:Like, I wasn't somebody he was pushing.

01:12:03Guest:You know what I mean?

01:12:03Guest:I hadn't earned any trust.

01:12:05Guest:It was like, this guy, we don't know.

01:12:07Guest:So I got, like, some things written for me, and they never really got past dress rehearsal, man.

01:12:13Guest:And then I just, within, like, a matter of weeks, it was like, you know, wherever my alcoholism was at...

01:12:20Guest:You know, it just all caved in, man.

01:12:23Guest:And I went to my very first fall of 85, late 85.

01:12:28Guest:I wound up at Regent Hospital on East 61st Street.

01:12:33Guest:And actually, I was getting fired.

01:12:35Guest:I remember I went into the office because I'd actually written a film at the time.

01:12:39Guest:I'd co-written a film with this buddy of mine.

01:12:41Guest:Lorne was actually interested in producing, possibly.

01:12:45Guest:So he got us some money from some producers.

01:12:47Guest:Yeah.

01:12:47Guest:But he was like...

01:12:50Guest:So convinced at that point that I was like becoming more and more trouble and untrusted that he got me money just to walk away from it.

01:12:59Guest:So like I wound up like getting paid just to let the other guy go do the rewrite and whatever would go.

01:13:05Guest:remember gary weiss the guy who shot the films yeah so i remember weiss would come up to me because i guess he'd had some issues he's like dude you're like gone man you know it was great robert downey jr and i haven't seen him in years but he was like he was almost like he was really like uh like a great young guy and he'd be like man you're messed up let's go because like we'd go to like a chaos party the first week with that like the odeon yeah

01:13:29Guest:And I remember, like, I was getting in a fight with, like, you know, telling Pee Wee Herman to go fuck himself.

01:13:34Guest:Yeah, go fuck you.

01:13:36Guest:And, like, they were trying to throw me out of the party.

01:13:39Guest:Yeah.

01:13:39Guest:And I remember Downey jumping in the cab with me going, hey, I'm sticking with you, man.

01:13:43Guest:You know, and then we would go to something like After Hours Club.

01:13:45Guest:He was a great guy.

01:13:46Guest:I didn't know who would have ever guessed what was going to become.

01:13:48Guest:He was just...

01:13:49Guest:You're nuts, man.

01:13:53Guest:I remember when Pee Wee Herman hosted.

01:13:55Guest:It was like the second show.

01:13:56Guest:I just remember how they didn't throw me out of the building, I don't know.

01:13:59Guest:But I just remember

01:14:01Guest:I guess Phil Hartman was actually sort of like his right-hand guy.

01:14:05Guest:Yeah.

01:14:05Guest:Like they had worked together or something.

01:14:07Guest:So Hartman wasn't a cast guy.

01:14:09Guest:And I just remember being so drunk.

01:14:12Guest:Like I was on my back in the writer's room and like looking up and seeing Paul Rubens and this guy, Phil Hartman, sitting there.

01:14:20Guest:And I just remember...

01:14:21Guest:babbling something.

01:14:23Guest:At that point, like, I kind of got to the point where I would just be, like, getting drunk and guys would just be, like, walking over me.

01:14:30Guest:Like, oh, no, he does that.

01:14:32Guest:He gets drunk.

01:14:33Guest:He lays... Don't worry about it, you know.

01:14:35Guest:And, you know, like... And then, like, I'd see Al Franken, who's, like, the producer.

01:14:39Guest:You know, like, so I was getting the warnings.

01:14:41Guest:Like, you know, man, you're really, like, out of control here.

01:14:45Guest:And then finally, like, there was one show where, like...

01:14:50Guest:I think I stayed in my dressing room and I didn't show up for a sketch.

01:14:54Guest:And it was like, okay.

01:14:56Guest:So I was getting fired.

01:14:58Guest:You got to understand, this is 1985, so it's a different reference than now.

01:15:01Guest:I had somehow heard the word rehab.

01:15:04Guest:I didn't even really completely understand what it was.

01:15:07Guest:So Lorne was like, listen, you'll get paid for the first 13.

01:15:12Guest:And I just looked across the desk and I went, not knowing what a rehab really was, I went, what if I went into rehab?

01:15:18Guest:And he went...

01:15:19Guest:oh, well, that's another story.

01:15:22Guest:And then, like, I guess Gary Weiss had been in rehab.

01:15:25Guest:He came in.

01:15:26Guest:So I had great, like, after insurance.

01:15:28Guest:The next thing you know, I was in, like, some, like, high end.

01:15:31Guest:And I remember thinking, like, and that's where the line comes from, buddy, the hitting bottom.

01:15:36Guest:Because it was 1985.

01:15:37Guest:I had a cashmere coat.

01:15:39Guest:I had, like, thousands of dollars.

01:15:41Guest:I was getting checks sent to the rehab, being kept in the safe.

01:15:44Guest:And I really thought I was hitting bottom.

01:15:47Guest:And in a weird way, at that time I was.

01:15:49Guest:But I was still in my 20s.

01:15:53Guest:I still had my physicality.

01:15:56Guest:I was under contract to arguably the biggest comedy show in the country.

01:16:02Guest:You know what I mean?

01:16:03Guest:But I thought, like, oh, boy, this is it.

01:16:08Guest:You've become the gutter.

01:16:09Guest:This is it.

01:16:11Guest:And you know what?

01:16:12Guest:I don't know, man.

01:16:13Guest:Maybe it was easier to embrace the idea of being a failure in that moment and, like, going, hey, I'm a drug addict, I'm an uncle, than it was to actually, like, face the fear of what it took.

01:16:26Guest:I mean, because I was privy to, like...

01:16:30Guest:you know top psychiatrists and uh you know they brought aa meetings in and see me and it's like i was giving i intellectually got it i intellectually understood this is what i need to do now right to not be blowing up this part of my life intellectually

01:16:51Guest:but the intellectuality didn't do me any good.

01:16:53Guest:Because I hadn't gotten it.

01:16:54Guest:I completely understand that.

01:16:55Marc:I was talking about that with somebody the other day.

01:16:58Marc:You can understand something, but you can't engage it.

01:17:02Marc:I get that.

01:17:02Guest:You hadn't processed it.

01:17:04Marc:You hadn't really... Well, you're still not dealing with the sickness.

01:17:09Guest:Right.

01:17:11Marc:I get it, but can I get a line?

01:17:12Guest:I understand.

01:17:13Guest:I can't tell you how many guys... I wouldn't even say sad to say because...

01:17:19Guest:The fact that I'm sitting here with you in this lovely room doing this interview and that I'm 57 and I still smoke cigarettes.

01:17:30Guest:The fact that I'm alive.

01:17:32Guest:So I can't say sad to say or it's a messed up story.

01:17:36Guest:I'm thrilled.

01:17:38Guest:that I made it through all that, because I'll tell you something, man.

01:17:41Guest:Any of these, like, scripts I'm working on, if they get finished, we don't know.

01:17:45Guest:It's all a crapshoot, you know?

01:17:47Guest:Or will I start performing again?

01:17:49Guest:Somebody be like, hey, quite a character.

01:17:51Guest:Let's throw him in that sitcom.

01:17:52Guest:We'll throw him in that film.

01:17:53Guest:It could happen.

01:17:54Guest:But...

01:17:55Guest:You know, like guys who always, you always hear about guys like, oh yeah, he's playing the part of a guy who's, so he's spending some time downtown.

01:18:05Guest:It's like, you know, man, all that time that I wasn't like performing and like making it in show business, the characters I've met, the darkness I've seen, I don't need any more prep workers.

01:18:17Guest:Oh yeah, you want me to be that guy?

01:18:18Guest:Yeah, I got you.

01:18:19Guest:You know what I'm saying?

01:18:20Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:18:20Guest:Like I always hear about some actors, Ryan Gosling was hanging out in

01:18:25Guest:a tiki bar in Florida because he wanted to see what people it was like oh really he needed to study that I got five guys numbers I call you right now you know what I'm saying and I had a few people over the years who always say to me like you know man you romanticize your darkness too much and it's like you know they may have had a point they may or may not have had a point but I will tell you

01:18:53Guest:I wouldn't trade in one moment of all the frigging people that I met, the demi-monde, as the French would say.

01:19:00Guest:You know what I'm saying?

01:19:03Guest:It was almost worth having to go through all that to see that side of life that if you'd planned it, you never would have.

01:19:11Marc:No, you would have just pretended.

01:19:12Marc:You would have lived through someone else's life.

01:19:14Marc:You had a life.

01:19:15Guest:Yeah, so now the only thing is staying alive to freaking talk about it.

01:19:19Guest:Well, I'm glad you're alive, man.

01:19:21Guest:You're doing good.

01:19:22Guest:Yeah.

01:19:22Guest:This was great, man.

01:19:23Guest:Thanks for talking to me.

01:19:25Guest:I mean, I got to be honest with you.

01:19:27Guest:Other than Charlie Rose, I've always sought myself at my lowest moments.

01:19:33Guest:I always watched Charlie Rose and thought, man, if I could just get it together.

01:19:37Guest:Have a project.

01:19:38Guest:I don't know why.

01:19:39Guest:I'm not always even that impressed with everything he says, but it's just something about that table.

01:19:44Guest:But this was the thing.

01:19:49Guest:No, this was the thing.

01:19:50Guest:Thanks for having me on, brother.

01:19:52Guest:It's great to see you, man.

01:19:53Marc:Glad you're doing well.

01:19:53Guest:Thanks, buddy.

01:19:59Marc:Love him.

01:20:00Marc:Love it.

01:20:01Marc:I'm glad he's okay.

01:20:03Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.

01:20:05Marc:Thank you, Dan.

01:20:06Marc:Thank you, man.

01:20:09Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:20:13Marc:Do what you got to do.

01:20:15Marc:I don't know, man.

01:20:16Marc:I think I'm not going to ramble through this outro.

01:20:19Marc:But do, if you're new, if you're a newbie, make sure you get the free app and upgrade to the premium and allow yourself to stream all the apps.

01:20:27Marc:A lot of people are coming in and just discovering the show.

01:20:31Marc:Oh, boy.

01:20:32Marc:I'm looking out my window.

01:20:34Marc:I'm looking out my window at New York.

01:20:37Marc:It's a nice day.

01:20:38Marc:I don't come here very often.

01:20:39Marc:I'm going to go do it.

01:20:41Marc:I might end up at Veselka again for some borscht.

01:20:45Marc:Just to tap in, man.

01:20:46Marc:To tap in.

01:20:47Marc:I'm going to ground myself in a Ukrainian soup.

01:20:52Marc:That's what I'm going to do.

01:20:53Marc:Boomer lives!

01:20:54Marc:Boomer lives!

01:20:57you