Episode 480 - Duncan Trussell
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck sticks what the fuckadelics what the fuckle heads what the fuckle bunnies i'm mark maron this is wtf thank you for listening to my show i'm happy you're here i appreciate you being here i'm thrilled today to present to you
Marc:A conversation with the thoughtful and trippy Duncan Trussell.
Marc:Duncan Trussell, who I've known for a while.
Marc:We've hung out a couple of times.
Marc:I always enjoy him.
Marc:He's a pleasant, thoughtful man.
Marc:Curious, intelligent, hilarious.
Marc:Duncan is a comedian.
Marc:He used to do this trippy thing with a puppet that I enjoyed.
Marc:It was out there, man.
Marc:But at the time, he briefly worked at the comedy store.
Marc:And he was the guy responsible 20 years after the fact for getting my name painted on the wall.
Marc:And I will talk to him about that.
Marc:I will.
Marc:I'm glad so many of you enjoyed the Lane and Dunham episode.
Marc:A lot of conversation instigated around that.
Marc:And I got to say, some of you who comment on the comment board are disappointing, disappointing humans.
Marc:I don't always know if it's the greatest thing in the world that we have the freedom to share the absolute worst kind of unbridled, unfiltered, thoughtless, impulsive garbage anytime we want to.
Marc:And anonymously.
Marc:Don't know if it's always a great thing.
Marc:Look, I'm all for freedom.
Marc:I'm all for freedom of speech.
Marc:But some of you guys are just fucking horrendous people.
Marc:And you know I'm not talking to you if I'm not talking to you.
Marc:It just amazes me that on my comment board that it's not even a heavy traffic situation ever.
Marc:Except when there's women on it.
Marc:And then these garbage heads come out of nowhere to dump garbage into the feed.
Marc:Just pure misogynistic, intolerant garbage.
Marc:I don't know who they are or whether they seek it out or whether they're actual listeners.
Marc:Or what?
Marc:But it only happens when women are on the show.
Marc:And there was some good backlash to it on the comment board.
Marc:And I was happy to see that.
Marc:I don't get engaged with it.
Marc:I do read it occasionally.
Marc:I find it disappointing.
Marc:I don't know who the fuck these people are sometimes.
Marc:It's just ridiculous that it only happens when women are on the show.
Marc:Hey, if you're going to take a dump on somebody just because you've got problems with yourself, why don't you spread it around a little bit?
Marc:Do it to all the shows if you're going to be that person.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:Yeah, man, I hit a wall with humanity.
Marc:I hit a wall with humanity the other day.
Marc:Sometimes I'm on Twitter.
Marc:I hit a wall with humanity.
Marc:I'm on my comment board.
Marc:I hit a wall.
Marc:Just people spewing garbage because they can anonymously.
Marc:Horrendous.
Marc:I had problems with Time Warner.
Marc:So I took it to the people.
Marc:I took it to the streets.
Marc:I tweeted my problems with Time Warner because if they want to have a Twitter presence, then they're asking for that.
Marc:That's exactly what they want.
Marc:They think this is a way to save customers, to get more customers.
Marc:Hey, we got to be on a social networking platform.
Marc:All right, there you are.
Marc:That is not a customer service representative.
Marc:That is somebody representing a company on a social networking platform.
Marc:I can't believe that in the world we live in, that there's such this weird kind of cynical apathy when it comes to corporate monopolies.
Marc:that's the way it is you know man up that's the way it is you get fucked even though you're paying for it that's just that that's how it is that weird kind of like almost nihilistic surrender of your will to something you'll fundamentally almost anti-american it's bizarre
Marc:Corporate apologists.
Marc:Hey, quit whining.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:Fuck you.
Marc:You know, you should always fucking call out garbage companies any way you can.
Marc:I don't know why the fuck we've made so many compromises around speaking out around the bullshit that we can speak out about.
Marc:So after all is said and done, I have no idea if it had anything to do with anything, but last night my internet was fast as fuck.
Marc:And I'm wary to thank Time Warner.
Marc:Maybe it did have something to do.
Marc:Maybe they did snap to it.
Marc:See, that's the thing.
Marc:Where's the guy that calls and says, we took care of that for you, Mr. Marin?
Marc:We understood you were upset about that.
Marc:We got a guy out there immediately.
Marc:Even if whoever the motherfucker that was downloading porn and Netflix and uploading an entire music library simultaneously for the last five nights, who probably clogged the fucking node...
Marc:So no one in this area could use it.
Marc:Even if that guy exists out there, why don't they take credit?
Marc:That's good business.
Marc:That just shows you that their customer service is really crap if they don't have a guy that calls and goes, oh, I saw that your internet's working.
Marc:Yeah, we took care of that for you.
Marc:We worked all night on that, man.
Marc:We had a guy up there on the pole for three hours because we wanted you to feel better.
Marc:That's the job they should be concerned about.
Marc:Where's that guy?
Marc:Oh, for those of you who are concerned about my cats, I've got an update.
Marc:In just a nick of time, I got the suture out of my cat's face.
Marc:I don't know how I did it.
Marc:I was paralyzed with fear.
Marc:I was approaching this cat as if I were about to ride a bull.
Marc:I think I had the same level of fear within the context of my life when I would consider wrapping the cat in a blanket or a towel, holding the cat down, pulling the cat's head back.
Marc:This is a vicious, wild cat at heart.
Marc:There's no peace in this cat.
Marc:No peace at all.
Marc:She pretends to be peaceful when she wants some love or a little touching when she needs to eat.
Marc:But other than that, wild fucking animal.
Marc:No peace at heart.
Marc:No peace of mind.
Marc:Even looks in her eyes.
Marc:You know, there's a comfort there for a minute.
Marc:And then there's just sort of like, I am going to fucking rip you to shreds if you fuck with me at all.
Marc:That's who my cat is inside.
Marc:So it was like riding a bull, folks.
Marc:But I don't know, like every day I tried to approach her and she'd freak out.
Marc:Got to the point where she knew I was coming.
Marc:I'd see the clipper in my hand.
Marc:It was just, it was ridiculous.
Marc:And it was straining our relationship.
Marc:I didn't know if we would ever recover from her suspicion.
Marc:And I don't know what happened yesterday.
Marc:I got a...
Marc:they got to travel and yesterday i just i grabbed her by the scruff of the neck i pulled her head back and just held it and i clipped that thing off and i didn't have to take her to the vet i thought i was gonna have to take her to the vet and by the way i know a lot of you heard about the earthquake but i lived through it not only not only did i live through it i almost slept through it i woke up and this is i've been through enough earthquakes now where i woke up
Marc:and uh you know moon was there and we both stood there and she went earthquake i'm like yep earthquake just just hang out a minute and i just felt it got a sense of it got a feeling for its duration didn't get out of bed
Marc:That's how I handle the earthquake.
Marc:Generally, if you feel it really going deep, I don't know about this doorway business or bathtubs or anything else.
Marc:For me, if you're in a neighborhood that doesn't have a lot of tall buildings and not a lot of power wires around, get the fuck out of the house.
Marc:Go far from structure.
Marc:So structure do not fall on you.
Marc:That's my feeling.
Marc:Maybe I'm wrong.
Marc:I'm probably wrong.
Marc:I'm sure if I'm not reading a guidebook, but that's my impulse.
Marc:That thing could fall down.
Marc:I'm going to move away from it.
Marc:I'm going to move away from any possibility of being hit with heavy shit.
Marc:So made it through that.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Look, I know I'm a little edgy.
Marc:I'm still a little sick.
Marc:I enjoy talking to you people.
Marc:And it's my pleasure right now to talk to Duncan Trussell.
Marc:I hope you enjoy this.
Marc:I had a very nice time with Duncan.
Guest:What is the routine, Duncan?
Guest:Well, the routine is I wake up, walk my dog down by the LA River.
Guest:What kind of dog?
Guest:A little chihuahua.
Guest:You have a chihuahua?
Guest:A chihuahua-Jack Russell mix.
Marc:Did you inherit that?
Marc:I adopted.
Marc:You adopted the dog?
Marc:Fox.
Marc:His name's Fox.
Marc:His name's Fox?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You adopted it on your own, not with the girl.
Guest:No, on my own.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Can you believe that?
Guest:This is the first time I've never had a meat handcuff between me and another person.
Guest:There's always a pet lassoing me to somebody forever.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, until the breakup.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:You had dogs with women that you had to share custody of?
Marc:Is that what you're saying?
Guest:No, no shared custody.
Guest:I had two dogs with Natasha.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And when I left, I just thought, well...
Guest:Who the fuck would want to go stay with me?
Guest:These dogs should stay with Natasha.
Guest:And I just didn't want to... It seems like that thing, like skulking over to your... I mean, I can understand with kids, but skulking over to your ex-girlfriend's house to pet your dog?
Guest:That just seems so pathetic.
Marc:No, I don't.
Marc:Yeah, I believe that's true.
Marc:I mean, I love the dog, but if the dog is well cared for, you're going to have to let that dog go.
Guest:You've got to let it go.
Marc:I mean, some people think that way about kids.
Marc:I don't necessarily agree with that.
Marc:You know?
Marc:That kid will be fine without me.
Marc:Probably be better off without me.
Marc:Maybe.
Guest:I don't know about that.
Marc:I don't either.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:So you got this little girl dog.
Guest:Me now?
Marc:A girlish dog.
Guest:How dare you?
Marc:Are you calling my dog girlish?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It's a chihuahua.
Marc:A chihuahua?
Marc:Chihuahua.
Guest:Chihuahua.
Marc:A chihuahua.
Guest:A girlish dog.
Guest:Holy shit, man.
Guest:I never knew it.
Guest:What?
Guest:I didn't know you were sexist.
Guest:I thought you were completely open-minded.
Marc:I'm very open-minded.
Guest:How dare you assign gender traits to an animal?
Guest:That is not cool.
Guest:My dog, by the way, is more masculine than I am.
Marc:I think I was actually assigning those traits to you.
Marc:Dog is a dog, but that was a dog I'm more accustomed to seeing perhaps as an accessory for a woman who might be walking down.
Guest:Listen to you!
Guest:Listen to you, man.
Guest:That's what women do.
Guest:They carry chihuahuas around in purses.
Marc:I didn't say purses.
Marc:You just said that.
Marc:Fuck!
Guest:You got me!
Marc:No, I mean, I think it's... I like... Look, I'm a cat person.
Marc:What do I know?
Guest:Well...
Marc:I had dogs.
Marc:Did you grow up with dogs?
Marc:Yeah, I grew up with dogs.
Marc:How many dogs?
Guest:Let's see.
Guest:We had Georgia and then there was Jenny.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And that's... That was it?
Marc:Those are the two.
Marc:But where the hell do you come from?
Marc:Like the first time I met you, you were booking the comedy store.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You were this strange.
Marc:Your hair always seemed a little dirty to me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You didn't have a beard or mustache.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, kind of a weird vibe that was always a little slightly tweaked.
Marc:But I liked you.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:My experience with the comedy store goes way back.
Marc:And you were sort of like I was like, well, how integrated is he into this situation?
Marc:Is he is he part of it?
Marc:Is he an extension of it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did it invent him?
Marc:And then but you were the guy that got my name on the wall.
Marc:Oh, I did.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're the one who made that happen for my entire life.
Marc:I did not have my name on the wall and you somehow took care of that.
Marc:Am I wrong in saying that?
Guest:Uh, you're wrong in saying that.
Guest:I mean, I wish I could take credit for it.
Marc:I believe you did.
Marc:Why do you, why do you say that?
Marc:I mean, when I came back around, it wasn't on the wall and you were booking the place.
Guest:Well, I was the guy who made the phone call, but at the time Mitzi was running everything.
Guest:So I, I really, it wasn't like I had some.
Marc:Who put it in her head that my name wasn't on the wall.
Guest:Well, see, that's the thing, man.
Guest:You think you're the only comic who is, like, freaking out because their name wasn't on the wall?
Marc:I wasn't freaking out, though.
Guest:But, well, a lot of comics look at that as, like, a big achievement.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you would get this sort of, like, a drizzle of phone calls throughout the week.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Just every once in a while some lost comic going, what's the deal?
Marc:Yeah, for real.
Marc:What do I got to do?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Once I called a comic and told them Mitzi wanted them to come and paint their name off the wall.
Yeah.
Marc:Who was that?
Guest:I think it was Vicki Barbalock.
Guest:Remember her?
Guest:I don't even know why I did it.
Marc:Like out of nowhere?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Mitzi with the few marbles she has left?
Guest:You get so bored up there, man.
Guest:When I was working there, you're up in the top of the fucking comedy store.
Guest:It's like having an office in the Haunted Mansion.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You just get bored up there and you're talking to comedians all day.
Guest:So you're just talking to like the nation's weirdest people on earth all day long.
Guest:So you definitely can get a little tweaked out in that situation.
Marc:but what i don't understand she so you were dealing with mitzi before she went all before she left entirely in a way oh yeah yeah i was with her when she was she was i mean i i don't know how she is now but when i was there it was was she sick yet she was sick yeah she was sick and before i was the talent coordinator i was the runner so i would i did that job no way sure were you what you had to get her a chicken salad
Guest:Oh, well, I had to.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You get her chickens.
Guest:Cow tongue sandwich.
Marc:Cow tongue.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you had to go where to Cantor's?
Marc:Where do they were?
Marc:Nate and Al's?
Marc:Where do you get cow tongue?
Guest:It was.
Guest:It was.
Guest:I think it was Cantor's.
Guest:I don't remember that.
Guest:No, it was some grocery store around where she lived.
Guest:But it was just I remember the first time I went to pick that up, you know, and gave me a cow tongue.
Marc:That's some old Jew shit there, buddy.
Guest:It just seems like old Satanist shit.
Guest:When you're going to pick up a cow tongue, it feels like you're getting implements for some kind of diabolic ritual.
Marc:But then when you see that it's thinly sliced cow tongue that is on a sandwich, does it still reek of Satan to you?
Guest:Not anymore.
Guest:Especially when I tasted it.
Marc:It wasn't bad, right?
Marc:It wasn't bad at all.
Marc:No.
Marc:So you come out to LA from where?
Guest:From North Carolina.
Marc:So you grew up in the South?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:That was your life?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, kind of.
Guest:I mean, I didn't grow up in the South.
Guest:Raleigh?
Guest:Well, I bounced around a bunch.
Guest:I just say North Carolina because that's where I went to high school and junior high school.
Guest:But my folks got divorced.
Guest:And before that, they were always traveling around.
Guest:So I was in Georgia.
Guest:I've been in Texas.
Guest:I was in Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Guest:I was in, you know, Maryland, Maryland.
Guest:So a lot of bouncing around.
Marc:Because you were with who?
Guest:Well, this was when my parents were married.
Guest:I think they had a pretty tumultuous marriage and were always moving around because that happens when people are sort of unstable.
Guest:You go from one place to the next looking for, I guess, a job that you could feed kids with.
Marc:How many kids were there?
Guest:Me and my brother.
Marc:So how old is he?
Marc:Younger or older?
Guest:He's older.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Is he around?
Guest:He's around, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:How'd he turn out?
Guest:Great.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, he just had a baby.
Marc:Oh, so you're an uncle.
Marc:I'm an uncle.
Marc:First time?
Marc:Yep.
Marc:That's exciting.
Marc:Yeah, it's great.
Marc:Where is he at?
Guest:He's in Maryland.
Marc:So it was really, but you had this sort of like Southern American experience in a way.
Marc:Texas, Georgia, North Carolina.
Marc:It's pretty.
Marc:It's rural.
Marc:It's deeply rooted in the history of our country.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you feel that?
Guest:Well, no, I never felt that.
Guest:It was nice.
Guest:I mean, it's beautiful to be around trees and the forest, and it was really cool.
Guest:And, of course, there's the stereotypical rednecks for sure.
Marc:Did you go to school with those guys?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:But that was during the undocumented acid boom of the 90s.
Marc:The undocumented one.
Guest:I think it was undocumented, yeah.
Marc:Let's document it.
Marc:Tell me, when did that start?
Marc:Did you start it?
Guest:I wish.
Guest:No, I had nothing to do with it, unfortunately.
Guest:But there was a time when it was very easy to obtain LSD.
Guest:And that was when I was in high school.
Guest:And you could sort of, it was when The Grateful Dead was touring.
Guest:Towards the end of it.
Guest:Yeah, and they sort of in their wake, they left just vials and sheets of acid in every town that they went through.
Marc:Were you following the dead?
Guest:I went to one dead show.
Guest:I never followed them.
Marc:I only went to two.
Marc:What year are we talking?
Guest:This was when I was in high school, 94.
Guest:I'm not sure.
Guest:I'd have to go back.
Guest:I don't know when that would be.
Marc:Was that towards the end of Jerry?
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, that was towards the end.
Marc:So was that a mind-blowing experience?
Guest:Not the show.
Guest:What was a mind-blowing experience was the parking lot.
Guest:The parking lot was just... Crazy.
Guest:Holy shit.
Guest:What the fuck is this, man?
Guest:You would see kids on skateboards holding cases of beer and they're like, beer for sale, beer for sale.
Guest:And then they get by your car and they're like, acid doses, acid.
Guest:Doses, doses, doses.
Guest:Whoa, everyone's just selling acid and mushrooms and nitrous oxide.
Guest:And you end up like...
Marc:Oh, nitrous.
Marc:I haven't got a sort of weird kind of buzz from a word in a while, but nitrous.
Guest:That's the ohm, man, during the universal ohm.
Guest:Actually, I think the guy who, there was someone who's famous for, he didn't invent it, but someone who started inhaling it back when there was that...
Marc:burst of spiritualism in the united states yeah he thought that you could inhale nitrous oxide and talk to dead people he thought it was a way to like commune you gotta you gotta keep inhaling it and pacing yourself because you know if you're gonna have a conversation with a dead person on nitrous you got about maybe a 40 second window
Marc:You better talk quick, because you're re-entering.
Marc:Yeah, we had a tank, and my roommates had a tank when I was in college, like a full tank that they had gotten from some dental supply house, and we used to fill garbage bags up with it, and it was kind of a tragic thing to watch, really.
Marc:Not as tragic as heroin or another thing, but just people sitting on a couch with garbage bags filled with nitrous going...
Marc:So they'd sort of drift off and all the nitrous would go out of the bag.
Marc:But your coloring is not great when you're doing that.
Guest:No, your fucking lips turn blue.
Guest:It's awful.
Guest:That's where the term fishing came from.
Guest:Did you know that?
Guest:Fish?
Guest:So there was a term called fishing, which was that after you had inhaled pharmaceutical grade nitrous oxide and had then passed out onto the parking lot.
Guest:Right.
Guest:you would begin to have a mild seizure.
Guest:And that seizure was called like a fish flopping around.
Guest:And that was the name for someone who had OD'd on nitrous oxide.
Marc:And that's where fish came from?
Guest:I assume, but I don't know.
Marc:So you're speculating.
Guest:I'm speculating.
Marc:Because you came into this with a little bit of confidence.
Guest:Well, I don't have confidence about my fish knowledge.
Guest:All right.
Guest:You started it.
Guest:I did go to a fish concert, but I didn't like it.
Marc:No, I have no idea what they are, but I did put on American Beauty for you before we came out here, and we locked in.
Marc:I know I can speak Grateful Dead to a certain degree.
Marc:I'm a big fan.
Guest:That song is so great, man.
Guest:Box of Rain.
Marc:Box of Rain.
Marc:Broke Down Palace is my song.
Guest:Oh, God.
Marc:That kills me.
Guest:Every time you break up, it's Elliot Smith and then mix in Broke Down Palace.
Guest:That is the break up mix.
Marc:Yeah, if you want to cry.
Marc:So, wait.
Marc:Now, you are sort of a known drug warrior.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:And so this time in your life, how old were you when you first did Acid?
Guest:I was in the 10th grade when I first did acid.
Marc:Now, was that something that changed everything?
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What were you doing before that?
Guest:Well, I mean, you're going to high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So what are you doing?
Marc:Just trying to figure it out?
Guest:You're trying to figure it out, but it's also, I mean, the thing about high school is it's essentially an internment camp for teenagers where you're being forced to sit down and get all this information injected into your brain by people who maybe don't even want to be doing what they're doing.
Guest:Some of them do, but there's just this sense of like...
Guest:It's just this sense of claustrophobic dread that it induces in kids.
Marc:Do you see an alternative?
Marc:To that?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:To going to high school?
Marc:Yeah, what would you prefer?
Guest:I think, well, I would prefer teachers to make as much as doctors in some fantasy world.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So they'd be into it.
Marc:Because there are teachers that somehow get through.
Marc:There was maybe one or two in high school that was like, all right, they're still into it for the most part, and they'll resonate.
Marc:They can change your life.
Marc:yes but uh so you just think that instead of an internment camp if we could make it something that we were excited to do and people were excited to share yeah yeah that would be good that would be but you're not for no schooling at all just you know at age 10 like good luck with everything we don't need no education bro
Marc:What am I going to learn, man, that I don't already know?
Guest:Yeah, man, just look at a sunflower.
Guest:No, I think that education is the greatest thing.
Guest:I think a sad thing is people, what happens when you get shoved into those places and you're getting bullied and- Oh, yeah, the dynamic, the hierarchy, the weird-
Marc:Caste system.
Guest:Yeah, it's brutal.
Guest:And then so then all of a sudden you get this awful.
Guest:It's the same.
Guest:Like learning is one of the most psychedelic, crazy things.
Guest:It just if you find the right book or even just read the right chapter, everything changes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Could be a paragraph.
Guest:A paragraph.
Marc:Yeah, why are you like you are?
Marc:There's a paragraph in a book, and it's fucking changed everything.
Marc:It's magic.
Guest:Yeah, and what ends up happening is that people begin to associate learning with being, sitting in uncomfortable desks with somebody kicking the back of your, kicking you.
Marc:I got nothing.
Marc:Nothing connected.
Marc:I don't know how to do anything I learned in high school.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean a few things may have connected but I slept a lot during class.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:I read maybe one or two stories that were good.
Marc:I have one teacher that was great because we wrote poetry and I found that I did that and it was a very profound experience to me.
Marc:But for the most part it was just trying to survive in the social structure of high school.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And feeling very uncomfortable.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And throwing up places.
Guest:Throwing up?
Marc:Sure.
Guest:That was a big thing in all public schools.
Guest:People are always puking.
Marc:Well, I mean, just going out and drinking and getting sick.
Marc:Oh, I see.
Marc:No, and I wasn't puking at school.
Marc:You didn't want to be that kid.
Guest:No, where they throw down the sawdust.
Marc:Something happened.
Guest:And kids are looking to see what was in it.
Marc:And then forever, you're that kid.
Guest:Well, we had a kid.
Guest:There was a kid when I was in elementary school who had the awful problem that if he saw someone mix food together, he would throw up.
Guest:So it was like every lunch, somebody would mix food in front of him.
Guest:And you'd always hear him like, no, please, just don't do it.
Marc:Sad plea.
Marc:Sad plea.
Marc:Don't mix the peas with the potatoes.
Marc:Here we go.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That poor guy.
Marc:I wonder if he's still like that.
Marc:Some people cannot mix food on a plate.
Marc:It's like a cardinal sin to them.
Guest:He got really badly addicted to painkillers, I think.
Marc:What else are you going to do with that problem?
Marc:I know.
Marc:You can't get through a meal with anybody.
Marc:It takes something to take the edge off.
Guest:You got to inject Dilaudid just to eat a hamburger.
Marc:With someone else across from you.
Marc:Because they might stick some french fries and ketchup and you're going to be fucking over.
Yeah.
Marc:So what was the, what kind of business was your family in?
Guest:Well, my mom was a psychologist.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my dad was a, he ran a shopping center.
Marc:Like a strip mall?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:In Mobile, Alabama.
Marc:In Mobile, Alabama.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:This is after the divorce.
Guest:Before that, he was a lot of different things.
Marc:He was one of those guys?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's dad doing this week?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What was some of the, what was the list?
Guest:He always worked at real estate offices.
Marc:Commercial real estate?
Guest:Yeah, in the South.
Guest:Or business real estate.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So yeah, part of going to visit him was he would try to... His idea was to turn us into men.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he would give us just these shitty fucking jobs working for his...
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, like in the South, like chopping fucking shrubs in the South all day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Always fending off molestation.
Guest:What do you mean fending off molestation?
Guest:There was just this weird old guy who like worked down in the shop where I had to work.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:and like i can remember it was just this bad vibe i got from him and like he was always getting a little too close to me and then like at one point he's like i got a pacemaker he's like put your ear to my mouth listen listen and like opened his mouth and like he didn't put my ear in his mouth but like
Guest:Did you hear the ocean?
Guest:Yeah, you heard the ocean screaming.
Guest:Get me out of this perverted old man!
Marc:What did you hear when you stuck your ear to his mouth?
Guest:I heard my own adrenaline, just like, what's happening?
Guest:Like, why is this happening to me?
Guest:He says, like, my pacemaker sounds like a little bird.
That is...
Marc:That is the weirdest.
Marc:I guess if you're a little kid, you're like, no, you might do that.
Guest:Yeah, but he.
Marc:Is that the end of the memory?
Guest:That's well, no, actually, I trapped some cats that summer.
Guest:There was like some stray cats, kittens, and like I trapped them and then took them back home.
Guest:But then they were feral.
Guest:I couldn't.
Marc:What's that got to do with the old man?
Guest:I don't know, Mark.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Same period.
Guest:Happened in the same period.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So that's your dad's doing.
Guest:yeah well i don't think it's my dad's doing i don't blame my dad that's just the world yeah but he set you up with the gig he just he was trying to get show me what hard work was like i guess it doesn't sound like he was doing it well no i mean he's working at a desk exactly i wish i'd thought of that when i was when he was like when we were driving through a hardy's drive-thru at 6 a.m and i knew i had to go chop weeds for the day
Marc:He's going to sit out somewhere.
Marc:What a great point.
Marc:Making a couple phone calls.
Marc:So your mom was a clinical psychologist?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Hippie style or straight up?
Guest:I'm gonna say hippie style.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:For sure.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Hippie style, yeah.
Marc:So you had the books around?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:How do you know about the books?
Marc:Well, which ones?
Marc:Which ones did you get into?
Guest:Jonathan Livingston Segal.
Guest:Is that what you're talking about?
Marc:Sure.
Marc:That falls under hippie psychology.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, those kinds of books.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Jack Kornfield.
Guest:Of course, Ram Dass.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really got in.
Guest:I still love Ram Dass.
Marc:She had the Ram Dass books?
Guest:Well, she had these cassette tapes.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:You remember when they used to have these weird, I don't know, plastic containers filled with an audio lecture series?
Marc:Yeah, sure, sure.
Marc:So she had those.
Marc:With no labels on them, just one, Ram Dass, one, and then two.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:So we would listen to those in the car as we drove, and I didn't really care for it at the time.
Marc:Because you wanted to listen to music.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and I just didn't want to do anything my mom was doing.
Guest:She was the enemy?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Not the other guy?
Guest:Not my dad.
Guest:No, it was my mom and I had a really turbulent sort of relationship.
Marc:Isn't it interesting?
Marc:You seem to be more in the groove of what she inspired now than the opposite.
Marc:You're not doing commercial real estate.
Marc:You're thinking about Satanism and listening to Manson.
Marc:Right.
Guest:That's not what my mom did, but the antidote.
Marc:A journey of the mind is what I'm saying.
Marc:A journey of the mind.
Guest:Yeah, well, I love, I'm not going to say I don't like listening to Manson Records or reading about Charles Manson.
Marc:One of the great entertainers of the 20th century.
Guest:Really was, man.
Guest:One of the great performance artists and truly a staple of American history.
Marc:Real risk taker.
Guest:Yeah, real risk.
Guest:He went for it.
Guest:He sure did go for it.
Guest:He fucking went for it, man.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:All right, so you got the books.
Marc:So that's where something must have gotten through then, listening to that 60s shit, right?
Marc:Well, I think that- How old are you?
Marc:I'm 39.
Marc:All right, so they were probably just a little older than me.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so.
Marc:Because I'm 50.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I guess so.
Marc:So they were actual boomers.
Marc:They probably kind of muddled through the 60s and all that explosion somehow.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Totally.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:So your mom picked up on that kind of like, you know, we can make it a good place.
Marc:We change our minds business.
Guest:My mom didn't pick up.
Guest:My mom, what happened is my mom went through a divorce and...
Guest:And then somewhere after that, she started finding out about this stuff.
Guest:She wasn't a hippie.
Guest:Our family on her side is a very traditional Southern family.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She wasn't a hippie.
Guest:As far as I am aware, when she married my dad, I don't think she became a hippie then.
Guest:It was when we came to North Carolina that she started coming into contact with that stuff.
Marc:She was ready to rebel?
Guest:in a way because what your parents like they met and they were both kind of regular southern conservative people and then the divorce kind of fucked her head up yeah yes i think so yeah yeah because that's what happens is you i mean i think that happens to to so many people as they don't consider the i they don't even think about why they're getting married in fact then you didn't even think like why would i get married or do this you just do it
Guest:let alone have kids well look what we did yeah now what yeah yeah and then suddenly the thing starts curdling and falling apart and it's not like now where everyone gets we're getting married is just a sort of yeah I don't know what it is I'm not sure either back then it was a it was a very serious thing and so then when the divorce falls apart and you end up with two fucking kids and you've that's a wonderful contact with truth and I think whenever you come in contact with truth sometimes it'll push you in the direction of trying to
Guest:understand how to get closer to that facet of the universe.
Guest:And a lot of those books help you do that in a way that I don't think they teach you anywhere else.
Marc:So when you say truth is a facet of the universe, which one were you referring to?
Marc:Children?
Guest:Impermanence.
Marc:Oh, you mean that it ends?
Guest:Yeah, not just that it ends, but yeah, everything ends.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Everything ends.
Marc:Some faster than others.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:It's a matter of pacing and timing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I mean, it's even like, you know, even the way you feel like right now, that's going to change.
Guest:Like everything's in this constant state of flux.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the whole, it seems like one of the...
Guest:aspects of living in the West is that you're taught that things don't really change or that you should expect things to stay the same.
Marc:You're looking for some security and some context that will make you feel like, well, this is my life now.
Marc:I'm in it.
Marc:Everything's changing.
Marc:Always.
Guest:Always.
Marc:And you just got to live with that.
Marc:Why fight it?
Marc:You're not going to stop it.
Marc:We're fighting entropy here.
Guest:That's exactly right.
Guest:yeah yeah we're not just fine i mean it's funny because we are entropy it's like we're entropy fighting itself i'm breaking apart right now i'm watching you vaporize in front of me it's amazing to see i only do it for certain people it's so cool i thought you could do that you can aerosolize yourself that's amazing yeah it took a lot of practice happened by accident i had gas and then i found like
Marc:But like, let's track the mind blowing because I mean, at some point you started thinking about things in a different way.
Marc:I think when I met you, we were still doing the puppet thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And that was the big bit, but it was pretty creepy bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you were sort of hung up by, I imagine because you were into the comedy, so I could tell by the look in your eyes that you were, it had hold on you.
Marc:So you sort of felt the tangible darkness of the place.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And felt that you were part of that.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And then at some point you extricated yourself and you fought the forces of darkness, contextualized them, and freed yourself somehow.
Marc:But in order to have the tools for that, do you understand what I'm saying?
Guest:Yes.
Yes.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:I love it.
Guest:I wish I'm going to have to go back and listen to that and get it tattooed on my stomach.
Marc:Extricate yourself from the darkness.
Marc:Get a handle on it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, but when did you first start dealing with, you know, a more cosmic approach to things?
Marc:I mean, at what point?
Marc:I mean, the Ram Dass didn't affect you in the car and then you took acid in 10th grade.
Marc:But where did you start?
Marc:Where did your brain start to kind of blow open?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, man, the funny thing about that is anytime you think you're, oh, yeah, my brain's really gotten blown open.
Guest:It's, I don't know.
Guest:I don't want to seem like I'm dodging that question.
Guest:I don't know the answer to that.
Guest:And I think that sometimes the way...
Guest:And spiritual growth works.
Guest:It's a very, very, very slow process.
Guest:And sometimes people do this classic thing where they start pretending to be spiritual or something, you know, like they like.
Marc:Well, yeah, or they grab at fragments.
Marc:There's a lot of that.
Marc:I know somebody, I'm not saying it's a negative thing, but to actually grasp something intellectually that you can make sense of does not mean that you can connect it to your heart or whatever you call the soul or its connection to the universe at large.
Marc:You can sort of like, oh, I get it.
Marc:But you don't really get it until it gets you.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:That's it.
Guest:Exactly, man.
Guest:That's exactly right.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So you see the whole thing is kind of like a you end up ever.
Guest:I might in the beginning when I was really getting into this stuff, like reading beer now or reading the Bhagavad Gita.
Marc:When was this?
Marc:How many years ago?
Guest:Well, this would have been in high school when I first came in contact with it a little bit.
Marc:So who gave you that?
Marc:Who gave you the Bhagavad Gita?
Guest:Before the Bhagavad Gita, it was- Was it a guy at a mall who had a shaved head?
Guest:No, but I did hang out with the Hare Krishnas for a while.
Marc:It's good food.
Guest:Great fucking food, man.
Guest:And it's trippy, man.
Marc:That is some trippy shit.
Marc:We'll get there.
Guest:So, yeah, so the first contact, I guess, would have been, there was a book my mom had called Raja Yoga by Yogi Ramacharaka.
Guest:And I still remember it was a blue book, really fancy looking, and a head on the spine, a circle with a triangle in it.
Marc:Ooh, symbols.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Woo!
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Very symbolic, man.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:What could it mean?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then I started reading it, and that's the first time that I ever really, like, I guess I may have come in contact with the idea, but the first time I really came into contact with the idea that you're not your thoughts.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Oh, right, right, right.
Guest:Your attachment to your thoughts.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:The idea that what you think defines your personality or that you are this ego is a delusion.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so that was in this book and the book had all these different exercises you could do that were designed to sort of take you out of the concept of you.
Marc:So this was like a magic book.
Marc:In a way.
Marc:In a sense, here are these exercises, which for most practical purposes are rituals to facilitate this idea that you had just gleaned.
Marc:Did you do the exercises?
Guest:I did one of the exercises.
Marc:What was it?
Guest:So the exercise is you begin to refer to yourself in the third person, whatever you're doing.
Guest:When you're walking around, you're just like, he is going to his car.
Guest:He is sitting down.
Guest:He is driving.
Guest:He is listening to the radio.
Guest:He feels sad.
Guest:He feels happy.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And so this is just like, there's a lot of different versions of that exercise, but it's designed to sort of cause you to zoom out a little bit from yourself.
Guest:Another great practice, which I just read about, which is really fun.
Guest:And they say this is like the first thing that, and I can't remember which sect of Buddhism it is, but when you become a monk, the first question they ask you is, where are you in your body?
Guest:Tell me where you are in your body.
Guest:Are you your hand?
Guest:Or you and your heart or your feelings find yourself in your body.
Guest:And the more you sort of meditate on that, you realize, fuck, man, I'm not in my book.
Marc:I'm not here.
Marc:No, no.
Marc:I'm just a puppet for something bigger.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I hadn't I hadn't ever read anything like that before.
Guest:And so I think that was probably the beginning of it for me.
Marc:When that yoga, what's it called?
Guest:It was called the Raja Yoga by Yogi Ramacharaka, who was, by the way, turned out to be some English guy named like Stephen Williams or something.
Guest:I looked it up later.
Guest:He just called himself Yogi Ramacharaka.
Marc:Why not?
Marc:He would sell books.
Marc:Sure, man.
Marc:Hucksterism is a very important part of modern spirituality.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:A huge part.
Marc:Gotta have a good act.
Guest:You gotta have a good act, man.
Guest:You gotta be fancy.
Guest:You have to have some special fucking angle.
Guest:It's hilarious.
Marc:Well, you are somehow...
Marc:you know, facilitating the shredding of fragile egos.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then you must be able to implement yourself as their channel, their portal into some larger understanding, which may or may not be true.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:But the point of the matter is, is anybody you talk to has been involved with those type of things.
Marc:They're like, yeah, I was in that for about eight years until I realized, like, you know, I just needed a job.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well, that's what I love about Ram Dass is because he addresses that stuff in such an articulate, brilliant way.
Guest:And what he says is these things, these different things that we get pulled into Buddhism, Christianity, whatever it is, existentialism, becoming like a hardcore activist, skeptic, whatever the thing is.
Guest:They're self-destructing traps.
Guest:The best ones are self-destructing traps, and it's designed to get you in there and not keep you forever.
Guest:It's designed to get you in there until you wake up or just get what you need to get out of it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And not stay in it for your entire life.
Guest:It shouldn't be a trap.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's like when you drive to the beach, you don't then just sit in your car.
Guest:You go hang out on the beach.
Marc:Right, if most people thought about that.
Marc:And I think that's probably the recidivism rate.
Marc:Is that what it's called for those kind of situations?
Marc:It's probably fairly large.
Marc:I mean, imagine a lot of people split if the leader doesn't crack up entirely.
Marc:But the people that stay are usually the people that do the office work.
Marc:You're going to need somebody to run the business, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I think that's what's so funny about...
Guest:uh deciding to like meditate or get into this stuff and go and into whichever way that you want to go into it is that it just it's not it's not about becoming something else and it's not about deciding that this person or that person is the conduit for all truth in the universe that's a ridiculous thing it's and that's a weak thing you know i think and it's really fucked up how people will allow themselves to seem like that thing like they'll pretend that that's their racket
Marc:it's a racket yeah but i you know i also think the the under the unspoken part of it is more so than not is that you know if somebody's lost and they're they're in a tremendous amount of fear they they need something to to grasp onto but i i think a lot of people and i talk about this this idea a lot here is that you know people need to feel part of something
Marc:And and a lot of people can't don't have the fortitude to necessarily get to where you are, which is to to forego the middleman after a lot of research and just realize that you're part of something all times anyways and everything is in flux and that's it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Some people need like a little more definition than that.
Marc:So you're the guy that knows the thing.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I'll be here with you for a while with these other people.
Marc:What do you got?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it seems like the best teachers are the ones who don't allow that to happen.
Guest:You really would have to, you wouldn't want that to happen.
Guest:I don't think you would want that to happen.
Guest:You would want, ideally, I would think people to just recognize that you're just as much a part of the thing as they are.
Guest:I mean, you're all part of the
Marc:Right.
Marc:But unfortunately, you know, you know, business is business for most of these people.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Well, yeah.
Guest:I mean, that is.
Guest:Yes, I think so.
Guest:I think some people are definitely they've just made that weird decision that I'm going to fucking juice people and let them think I'm God.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Can you imagine?
Marc:It's a lot of responsibility.
Guest:Oh, you have to love people.
Marc:You also have to have no fucking conscience whatsoever on some level.
Marc:I mean, you can love people, but to the what it takes, the sort of blind side and gift that it takes to to actually whether you believe it or not, to remain in that position, to know that people are following you.
Marc:Either you've got to really believe it for yourself, or you know somewhere in your heart that I'm taking these fucking people for a ride.
Marc:So sadly, if you are a person that believes that you are that person, that God, that entity, then you've got problems.
Marc:But if you're a person that's just taking people for a ride, it's a different set of problems, and something a little more dubious, but at least understandable.
Marc:Because then you're not necessarily a psychopath, you're just a fucking con man.
Marc:But if you really believe it, then you've got bigger problems.
Guest:Here's the biggest fucking problem is that in the midst of all these monstrous charlatans, there are people who really wake up.
Guest:There are people who wake up.
Marc:They serve their purpose.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's like the shitty teachers at high school.
Marc:You never know.
Marc:They get through sometimes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, no.
Guest:I mean, there are real... I do believe they're gurus.
Guest:I do believe that there's teachers and people who've just done...
Guest:Whether by like mutating their brain or maybe it's like a terrible accident or who knows but they've somehow figured out a way to Just become love or just generate.
Guest:Yeah love for for people around them Yeah, yeah, and I think that's possible and it does happen rarely But I think it does happen so so okay, so well two questions Where do you fall on the it's wired into us versus there's some sort of external?
Marc:continuity
Guest:Okay, well, you know, have you ever read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali?
Marc:No.
Guest:It's fucking amazing, man.
Guest:You should check it out.
Guest:It sounds esoteric and hard to read, but it's really badass to read about the psychology.
Guest:He has this whole system of psychology in there, which is this idea that...
Guest:So you have the external world, right?
Guest:And the external world is reflected inside of your mind.
Guest:And that's definitely true.
Guest:You can't argue with the fact that photons go into your optic nerve.
Marc:Our perception of the external world is limited to our perception.
Guest:Yeah, well, our perception of the external world is a neurological, biochemical reflection of the external world.
Guest:So the idea is that you have a person in your mind, someone you don't like, I don't know.
Guest:And so that happens a lot.
Guest:When someone's done you wrong or you're holding a grudge, you'll think about this person and then you'll feel pissed off.
Guest:You'll get angry, right?
Guest:So the name for that aspect of your brain.
Guest:Show business?
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Show business is in your brain, man.
Guest:But that's called a vritti, which means kind of like a cyclone or tornado.
Guest:So like spinning in your mind are all these little cyclones and tornadoes, which represent people that you like or people you don't like.
Guest:And they're all replicas of the thing that you encountered in the external world.
Guest:But it creates the illusion that...
Guest:The person that you're somehow connected to the person right now when you're mad at someone you're connected to them, but you're really not you're just experiencing this little tiny little part of your brain that isn't a Biochemical reflection of that person right so when people and I do wonder like is it outside of us or inside of us and then I just start thinking I don't think it matters because We're outside we are outside like you're part of the universe like you're as much a part of the fabric very large
Guest:A wonderful part, too.
Guest:Thank you very much.
Guest:Yeah, but you're as much a part of the universe as of rock or a mountain or the sky, so when people are like, is it outside of us?
Guest:It's like, well, you're it.
Marc:All one.
Guest:What's outside of you anyway?
Marc:Right.
Guest:All one, exactly.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So all right.
Marc:So getting back to your first experience, you brought up the ego and the idea of moving the ego aside or or at least breaking it down.
Marc:You're talking about Ram Dass that his guru was able to to free him from the ego long enough for him to have some sort of enlightenment or to find some sense of universal love or that type of.
Marc:possibility or continuity i mean when did you know that that was uh on on the menu i mean was it from that that first book i mean when you say uh he is going to sleep he is driving a car that is an exercise to to what to distance yourself from the vessel but i mean ultimately what is the what to explain to me the idea of of ego eradication
Guest:Well, see, it's not eradication.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:And that can create a lot of problems for people because they start thinking like, okay, here we go.
Guest:I'm going to get spiritual, so let me just destroy myself because it's just so awful.
Guest:I'm going to have to get rid of it.
Marc:That's trouble.
Guest:That's fucking trouble because now you're at war with yourself.
Marc:And also it leaves you vulnerable to being a fucking psychic dumpster.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Exactly, man.
Guest:And it creates all this guilt.
Guest:It creates all this guilt.
Guest:And it's like, you know, most of us from, you know, when we were kids, the thing we always experienced was this, our parents putting pressure on us in some way or another to be something different than the way we are.
Guest:So that's been the status quo for most people for their whole lives.
Guest:It's after the parents, the school...
Guest:Yeah, we'll tell them to be someone else.
Guest:And then after that, you know, the job maybe will like they're always under pressure to not be who they are.
Guest:So it's not ego eradication.
Guest:It's more of a surrender that to just accepting like the way you are right now, this way that you are right now.
Guest:This is perfect.
Guest:This is perfect.
Guest:It doesn't mean that you shouldn't.
Guest:That means you can just keep eating Doritos or don't exercise.
Marc:No, it just means that like if you if you don't accept it, the possibility of you
Marc:And not only being miserable, but continuing to do what's negative is high.
Guest:Yeah, man, exactly.
Guest:That's exactly it.
Guest:And the one thing most people have not tried is the practice of loving themselves.
Guest:Most people have they think that that's selfish or indulgent or when they hear it, they're like, what are you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think what it is, is it's sort of daunting.
Marc:Because I think that what the West does is is really keep us in a state of unmeetable desire that, you know, capitalism in and of itself exploits desires.
Marc:It requires you don't feel comfortable in order to persist if you don't need things and the whole system falls.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So, you know, you got to be in a state of perpetual need and you got to feel like you're not quite whole unless you have that thing.
Marc:I need that thing.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And how much does that thing cost?
Marc:Well, there's a cheaper version of it.
Marc:It's a pretty good thing.
Marc:Maybe I can afford the expensive thing.
Marc:But any of that, you know, if if what you're saying is, you know, you know, full self-consciousness and the ability to self-love is a threat to the order of things on a larger level, but on an individual level.
Marc:I think, unfortunately, we're wired to believe that that success, ambition and and and hard work, which isn't necessarily a bad thing that you were really wired to believe that we're never enough, you know, whether it's by your parents or culturally that, you know, like I'm not quite there yet or, you know, it's never enough.
Marc:You know, it's not the process.
Marc:It's the result, very result driven, career driven.
Marc:So loving yourself.
Marc:I mean, the big question is, like, why?
Marc:Why would I do that?
Marc:yeah how will i be able to survive yeah i mean i got things to do this is hell yeah how am i gonna suffer in hell if i love myself you're gonna ruin hell for me and also surrender is difficult because it does require that and you brought that up it does require that you know allowing yourself to to um to accept love you know that's tricky for me oh god have you figured it out i it's so hard it just makes you cry
Marc:You know, the weird thing.
Marc:It's just like, I don't know why it's so uncomfortable.
Marc:I can't quite figure it out.
Marc:You haven't tracked it in yourself.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Because a lot of people are just like, I think about entertainers.
Marc:I was talking about this to another guy the other day is that like so many entertainers just bask in the love of the audience.
Marc:I'm like, not my experience.
Marc:I will defy them to like me.
Marc:And when they do, I'll question that.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:So but where does that come from?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, well, because what it is, is it's it's it's fun to be like if you if you become somebody who lives in their mind, then the idea of being in your heart is it's a really tough transition.
Marc:But don't you think that the the the the act of living in your mind is is somehow it's avoiding your heart.
Guest:Oh, 100%.
Marc:It's a defensive action because you're so sensitive or something.
Marc:Or somebody took advantage of that.
Marc:Or somewhere along the line, your heart got broken and probably at an age where you couldn't even understand it.
Marc:I mean, I believe that heartbreak can happen very early on.
Guest:Well, heartbreak, it's a funny thing.
Guest:People run away from heartbreak.
Marc:Can't avoid it.
Guest:You can't fucking avoid it.
Guest:And also, it's like when your heart breaks, that is...
Guest:I think the thing that a lot of people call heartbreak is actually contact with truth.
Guest:And so it's that feeling of actually touching ground on the terrain of the world that you're in.
Marc:Is it truth or is it humility?
Marc:I mean, it's truth.
Marc:I think heartbreak a lot of times is similar to that moment where you realize things did not work out the way you wanted to.
Marc:You don't have control over most shit.
Marc:And and and and somehow or another, you've been rejected by something.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, yeah, that's a truth.
Marc:But a lot of times heartbreak happens because you're untruthful.
Marc:But I guess I think I think the truth is humility.
Guest:But even if it's untruthful and heartbreak comes, then that feeling of loss is... Loss.
Guest:That's true.
Guest:That's contact.
Guest:Well, yeah, the truth is... You've just been handed your ass.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:You were attached to something.
Guest:It didn't work out the way you thought it would work out.
Guest:And now you're experiencing that incredible feeling that people call heartbreak.
Guest:And it doesn't feel good.
Guest:And, of course, you try to get away from it.
Guest:You try to get away from it at all costs.
Guest:And...
Guest:And it's a very strange thing because when you begin – that's like when you begin to meditate or when you begin to – one big part of sitting is you stop running away from heartbreak.
Guest:So you sit and you follow your breath and then you look at the way your body feels.
Guest:which is interesting in its own right, because you'll notice, like, shit, man, my calf hurts.
Guest:You'll have, like, these pains that you didn't even notice.
Guest:Like, oh, weird, man, that fucking hurts.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And then the more you do it, suddenly you, like, go into yourself and you realize, like, oh, man, I am so fucking lonely.
Guest:Holy shit, I'm...
Guest:And then instead of doing the thing that when you feel like that, a lot of people, when they feel like that, they're like, I'm going jogging or like, you know, I'm going to play video games or I'm going to get stoned or whatever it is, you know, not that getting stoned is going to help you with your loneliness.
Guest:It will amplify it.
Guest:But the point is you go into that.
Guest:The idea is you just keep trying to go back and back and back until you accept it.
Guest:Well, yeah, until you accept it and, yeah, I guess that's the right word for it.
Guest:Accept it.
Guest:Yeah, until you're okay with it and surrender to the fact that, guess what?
Guest:At this time in your life, right now, you're lonely.
Guest:Stop pretending you're not.
Guest:Stop acting like everything's okay.
Guest:Stop walking around like you're fine.
Guest:Be a lonely person for a while.
Guest:Let that be what it is.
Guest:Stop trying to be different than the way you are.
Guest:Nothing's wrong with you because you're lonely.
Guest:Why wouldn't you fucking be lonely?
Guest:Look at where you're at.
Guest:You're surrounded by people.
Guest:You pathetic shit.
Guest:No one loves you.
Guest:And look in the mirror and say that over and over and over again.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's a dark turn.
Guest:Guys, I'm releasing a series of guided meditation tapes.
Marc:But you're in your own personal journey.
Marc:I mean, like clearly, so you read those books in high school and then you drop some acid.
Marc:But I mean, what has been your desperate spiritual search?
Guest:My desperate spiritual search?
Marc:How'd you land here?
Marc:Because I know when I first met you, this was not where you were.
Guest:Well, you know, this year I got one of my balls chopped off and my mom died.
Guest:That's not going to like... That's a wonderful space.
Guest:That's a wake-up call.
Guest:That's a wake-up call.
Marc:Those are two truths.
Marc:Those are two big... You're a ball shy and no mommy.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Is that the name of your new CD?
Yeah.
Marc:A ball shy and no mommy.
Guest:That just sounds like the saddest kid's song.
Guest:Just like some orphan singing that in front of a factory.
Marc:I'm a ball shy and I got no mommy.
Marc:Like tons of kids singing.
Marc:That's where everything turned around.
Marc:In a way, where were you before that?
Marc:Where were you before the cancer?
Marc:What were you doing?
Guest:Well, you know, I had fucking hubris, man.
Guest:Like, before cancer and my mom dying, I think that I was, like... I took people for granted in a way.
Guest:Just didn't even know I was doing it, you know?
Guest:Just sort of, like, took people for granted.
Guest:Took... I don't know.
Guest:I think I was...
Marc:I have to assume that at that time, I know you were sort of locked in with a certain way of thinking and with other comics and there was the darkness of the store.
Marc:And I have to assume that in terms of your spiritual path now, you have to look at that as some diversion.
Guest:It's a big diversion, man.
Guest:And the comedy, the comedy was doing, I was touring.
Guest:I was touring and because of the podcast, I was getting people at the shows and it was great.
Marc:It was really great.
Marc:And then.
Marc:But you were compelled by a morbid fascination and darkness.
Guest:Yeah, I went through a period like that, for sure.
Guest:I know exactly what you're saying, man.
Guest:I know exactly what you're saying, and you're damn right.
Guest:Yeah, I did the puppet.
Guest:I performed the puppet act at the wedding of the grandson of the founder of the Church of Satan in front of a bunch of Satanists.
Guest:And you were into it.
Guest:Well, I was fascinated by it.
Guest:I really was.
Guest:And I think that's actually a lot of, I know a lot of people who get into that or get into some version of that.
Marc:It was Anton LaVey's grandson?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But people get into that stuff and I know why they get into that.
Guest:Yeah, because it's sexy.
Guest:Well, yeah, it's sexy, but it's also because they think that it, they think that like power works, you know, like they think that like.
Guest:Right.
Guest:The will thing.
Guest:Yeah, which is, which, you know, like with Crowley, people confuse like Aleister Crowley with Satanism a bunch, but it's not at all.
Guest:It's not Satanism at all.
Guest:But his idea is do as thou will shall be the whole of the law.
Guest:And then the next line that no one ever says is love is the law.
Guest:Love under will.
Guest:So the idea is like your love is the most important thing.
Marc:I think that most people that enter the world of Crowley after about four pages go like, I don't fucking get this.
Guest:Oh, yeah, that's for sure.
Guest:There's a lot of force field surrounding that stuff for people.
Guest:And then, I mean, fuck, do you want to get it?
Guest:It's like your great joke about Scientology where you're afraid to read.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:How does it go?
Guest:I love that joke.
Marc:I can't remember.
Marc:It's like, you know, I don't even pick up the book because I don't know where it happens, at what page.
Marc:You're like, I'm in.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Like, do you really want to end up standing in your fucking living room?
Guest:It's 6 a.m.
Marc:wearing robes and doing the- Where to now, Mr. Cruz?
Guest:No.
Guest:So, yeah, so I think a lot of people, it's an easy thing, and it's not just with, like, Satanism or the occult.
Guest:So many people get pulled into other power games, you know?
Guest:Like, they get into becoming a pickup artist, or they get into, like, that book, The Laws of Power, and they think that everything's about manipulation, and everything's like-
Marc:winning at all costs no matter what and they pretend to be these it's so funny because like those are the same people that that go the other path i mean there's a desperation there there's a desperation for for personal uh advancement for for feeling like you can achieve things you know the same people that are looking for some sort of transcendence or some sort of spiritual guidance absolutely are the same people that are like there's a moment at the end of the wolf of wall street did you see the i didn't see it i think it's a great movie
Marc:But there's a moment at the very end where he looks out at an audience and that is it.
Marc:That is just sort of like, help us.
Marc:We're lost.
Marc:Our lives aren't working out.
Marc:Help us.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That vulnerability that we all have.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's it, man.
Guest:And that's the whole idea.
Guest:Whatever it is you want to do, whatever you're drawn to doing, do it.
Guest:Don't suddenly decide.
Guest:I mean, not everything, guys.
Guest:Don't fucking set churches on fire or anything like that.
Guest:But in general, if you just recognize that there is...
Guest:That there's so many different ways to to start waking up.
Guest:And that can even include like Satanism, which really Satanism, I would say, is just a Western version of worshiping Shiva, which is the force of destruction or the force of power in the universe.
Marc:Unleash all your desires.
Marc:Well, I mean, feel your feel feel your hatred.
Guest:Yes, yes, that's it.
Guest:That's the idea.
Guest:And I think there's something to be said for that.
Marc:I know, but you're not going to win a lot of friends necessarily, maybe within the group.
Guest:You're going to get sick, too.
Guest:I think that if you're an angry person and you let yourself hold on to anger too much, then your body's probably going to get sick.
Marc:Did you practice in any way the ideology of it?
Marc:Because I know that LaVey was sort of a huckster himself, but...
Marc:I mean, in some of the principles he was playing with in the in the Satanic Bible, you know, were old magic principles.
Marc:There weren't anything that he invented necessarily.
Guest:No, I wouldn't say that.
Guest:I know I didn't practice.
Guest:I just thought, you know, you hear some of the stuff you hear.
Guest:And if you're like if you if you're an angry person or if you're somebody who like.
Guest:uh is i don't know it's it's a it's a it's a really easy like you read it and you're like well that kind of that kind of makes sense you know that feels good yeah yeah fuck that guy yeah and and you know like i i see it as a kind of art experiment too like if you look at the the the i can't remember there's a there's a new satanic church these are the guys who uh
Guest:I don't know if you heard about this, but they wanted to put a statue of Baphomet in front of a Capitol building somewhere because they had a statue of, I think, the Ten Commandments.
Guest:And so they were saying, look, if it's freedom of religion, we get to put this.
Guest:Have you seen that picture?
Guest:Oh, it's awesome.
Guest:They're like raising money.
Guest:I think they're going to go to court over it.
Guest:But it's a statue.
Guest:You know, Baphomet, the Egyptian, right?
Guest:Well, they say he's Egyptian, the goat of Mendez, I think.
Marc:The horned guy.
Guest:Pointing up, pointing down, hermaphrodite.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:So it's this hilarious statue of that being sitting in a throne with two children at either side of him.
Marc:With the Lincoln Memorial in the background?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It's so diabolic, man.
Marc:But nothing is as diabolic as the Pentagon.
Marc:So, I mean, they're in some stiff competition.
Guest:Well, that's a funny thing, too, is like people who get overwrought about that stuff, they seem to be completely ignoring the fact that- Draw some lines across the points and there's the biggest pentagram ever constructed.
Guest:Or just look at history and you can see since the 50s, I think the United States has killed at least half a million people.
Guest:So don't forget that.
Guest:I mean, it's like, don't forget that you're probably living on the great dragon of the world if you're an American.
Guest:Half a million people, man.
Guest:That's a lot of fucking people.
Guest:I was looking that up yesterday and just sort of, it's kind of mind boggling when you consider that number.
Marc:Well, yeah, I mean, I used to do bits about that and you sort of look at the grid of Washington and all this sort of Masonic symbolism and Egyptian symbolism and symbolism in general.
Marc:Yeah, I try to stay out of that rabbit hole.
Guest:Yeah, I think that it's a fun rabbit hole to go into, but definitely it's just a diversion.
Guest:I mean, all those conspiracies.
Marc:It's like people who like are... It's a fun rabbit hole to go into, but not to live in.
Marc:And the risk of, and you know this, the fragility of the human mind to somehow take a turn and believe it's seeing something...
Marc:that that that may or may not be real but because it offers some sense of order of history of of good and evil they'll lock in yeah and then you know you're one of those guys right like oh here he goes again well yeah i mean that's part of the conditioning is you're not supposed to say that the united states has killed half a million people since the 50s like you don't you know that seems like something before they say the pledge of allegiance the teachers you say that to me and i'm like that number seems a little low
Guest:I think it's low.
Guest:It's a conservative estimate.
Guest:It's a conservative estimate.
Guest:But it is, you know, and then you start saying that stuff.
Guest:And it's strange because people will roll their eyes at you like, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Just don't talk about that.
Marc:Can't you just live for today?
Guest:Just live for today.
Guest:It's like finding out you're at a party that runs on blood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's a great fucking party.
Guest:And you're telling people, you know, this thing runs on blood.
Guest:And they're like, shut the fuck up, man.
Guest:This is the best party on the fucking block.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Look at the other parties.
Guest:You can't be gay in some of the other parties here.
Guest:You can be gay.
Guest:Let it run on blood.
Guest:A wedding party here and there.
Guest:We must sacrifice.
Guest:We have to sacrifice.
Guest:The dragon must be fed.
Guest:Just drink the margaritas, man.
Marc:I think we're feeding the dragon now.
Guest:I don't know, man.
Guest:I, you know, I think that you can get caught up in that stuff.
Marc:Well, that's a fucked up thing, too, is that, you know, how much of, you know, what, you know, when you look at like, like the 9-11 truth people or Lyndon LaRouche people, you're like, we've become sort of untethered from any sort of like human unity.
Marc:that we know of and we're able to cherry pick our ideology, our information, what we consider truth, what isn't truth.
Marc:So I'm completely convinced that all the truths are out there, but it's just sort of like maybe you'll come upon them or maybe you'll say they're bullshit, but it's all available.
Marc:There's nothing being hidden anymore.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Well, I guess just assume everything's happening.
Guest:Just accept that fact and then deal with what's inside of you.
Marc:Nothing is true.
Marc:Everything is permitted.
Guest:Just deal with your own chemtrails in your heart.
Guest:Stop worrying about the fucking chemtrails in the sky when inside of you you're polluted with anger and greed and sadness.
Marc:So that message is being available and opening your heart to universal love is ultimately the only solution.
Guest:I mean, I can't.
Guest:What else are you going to do?
Guest:I mean, and that doesn't mean you can't continue to, like, be a be be feed the dragon, be an activist.
Marc:Yeah, right.
Guest:Whatever.
Guest:You could still you want to you can shovel fucking dead babies into the dragon's mouth.
Guest:But it would be better if you're going to shovel dead babies into a dragon's mouth.
Marc:It would be crying.
Guest:It would be.
Guest:No!
Guest:No, that's creepy.
Guest:There's something so creepy.
Guest:Laugh while you do it.
Guest:No, you want to... No, you want to... I think that it's better to start practicing mindfulness.
Guest:So if your job is scooping dead babies into the mouth of the dragon, then the first step in maybe getting away from that job, maybe... Is how does he feel when he's doing this?
Guest:Just watch yourself do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Are you really enjoying watching those lifeless corpses land?
Guest:I've got no choice.
I've got no choice.
Guest:Yeah, just watch that.
Guest:Just watch that.
Guest:And then the more you watch it, it does seem like that's when some small, small, small change.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you go through this relatively dark period in the name of your creativity.
Marc:And then tell me about the the ball cancer diagnosis.
Marc:I mean, what happened?
Marc:Walk me through that.
Guest:Well, so one of my balls got really big.
Marc:Like big?
Guest:Well, it was, you know, yeah, it was big, man.
Guest:It was weird and big and I knew something was wrong.
Guest:But you think to yourself, well, I think the other day I accidentally hit myself in the balls maybe.
Guest:Like you try to remember something.
Guest:Maybe you did squats wrong or something.
Guest:I think I was exercising at the time.
Guest:So it's like probably an athletic injury.
Guest:And then you go on the internet.
Guest:And you look up your symptom and it's just like, yeah, you've got cancer.
Guest:Like, it's just like, you definitely probably, you probably have cancer.
Marc:And so I feel like checking my balls right now.
Guest:You would notice, man.
Guest:And also you're out of the age range statistically where people, I think people can still get it.
Guest:But I was at the very end of like the age range when you get it.
Guest:For those of you listening, getting paranoid about your balls.
Guest:I, it wasn't like, I wonder if something's wrong.
Guest:It's like something is fucking wrong.
Guest:Like this is wrong.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So don't get paranoid and scared because a lot of guys rightfully get paranoid and scared and they'll start feeling their balls compulsively to see if they have cancer and then that'll make your balls sore if you're always squeezing and touching them.
Guest:So you've got to like just go to the doctor, get a checkup.
Guest:It's stupid to not get a checkup.
Guest:But anyway, I went to the doctor and
Guest:I still remember that day, man.
Guest:I'd been writing in this cafe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I'd gone to get a checkup.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I showed this general practitioner, and he's like, oh, no, that's bad.
Guest:You need to go to a urologist immediately.
Guest:So then that's the last thing you want to fucking hear, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When you're an immortal, which is if you're a person who hasn't gotten sick yet, and a lot of people haven't, you're just like, I'm going to walk out of here with a big grin on my face.
Guest:He's going to see the ball and be like, come on, man.
Guest:You're fine.
Guest:Get out of here, champ.
Guest:You're fine.
Guest:So then it's like you're sitting there.
Guest:You can feel the fucking, you can just feel this darkness rising into you.
Guest:It's like...
Guest:oh shit, this could be it.
Guest:This could be it.
Guest:This is going to be my thing.
Guest:This is going to be the thing.
Guest:And so then I'm writing at this cafe before I go to the urologist and I'm just like, oh, this is probably going to be nothing.
Guest:I'm going to get in there.
Guest:It's just nothing.
Guest:Waste of time.
Guest:Funny story though, big cancer scare.
Guest:I'm going to tell my friends I had a little cancer scare.
Guest:Boy, it was scary.
Guest:Really terrified.
Guest:And I'm driving there and then I get there.
Guest:And I remember even thinking like, man, you're going to be so relieved when you find out you don't have cancer.
Guest:And I remember thinking, I'm going to go buy some of those.
Guest:I don't even know why I thought this, but I've been wanting those LED color changing lights you can control with your iPhone.
Guest:After this, I'm going to go buy those crazy fucking lights.
Guest:I don't know why.
Guest:It'll just be a celebration because I'm fine.
Guest:You get there.
Guest:Doctor comes in, show him your ball.
Guest:He's like, hmm, this is something, we should do an ultrasound for this right now.
Guest:We need to do an ultrasound because this is definitely enlarged.
Guest:They're asking you all these questions about your past.
Guest:Like, is anyone in your family have cancer?
Guest:Well, my mom had breast cancer.
Guest:And then like, weird, did your balls descend?
Guest:That's what they asked.
Guest:Like when I was a kid, which they did.
Guest:So then the ultrasound's happening, right?
Guest:So you're laying on the table.
Guest:They're using this sonar device to kind of scan your balls.
Guest:You're looking at the lady's face.
Guest:You can't see the screen.
Guest:And if you could, you wouldn't know what you're looking for.
Guest:But you're looking at the lady's face because you want to see what her expression is.
Guest:Because you think, if she sees cancer in my ball,
Guest:I'm going to be able to tell on her face.
Guest:She's going to go, Oh fuck.
Guest:Jesus Christ.
Guest:You're dying.
Guest:But this is that they do this all day, you know?
Guest:So it's just a kind of a blank face and I'm asking her, how am I doing?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Looking okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's like, well, you know, we can't say it's, I can't give a diagnosis.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then suddenly you're sitting at a desk in front of a doctor, just like in the fucking movies.
Guest:Oh, boy.
Guest:When your doctor is at the other end of a fucking desk, I don't know why they do that.
Guest:I don't know why they want to fucking sit at a desk when they tell you you have cancer.
Marc:What, you want them to be holding you?
Guest:yeah i would prefer anything just sneak it sneak it in or something like point point at something and then you have cancer right but yeah he's like well you have there's a 90 chance that this is cancer and uh we are going to need to schedule a what's called an orchiectomy and i'm where we're going to cut your balls off and both of them you're one yeah and we're gonna um we should do it next week yeah
Guest:They don't take, you know, they're like, and he's like, and then after this, we're going to send you down to get a CAT scan.
Guest:And because we want to make sure that it hasn't spread into your lungs or into your brain.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that, that's the moment where your hearing goes away.
Guest:That's the moment where this, like, suddenly you can't hear anymore.
Guest:And it's the weirdest fucking thing, man.
Guest:Like, you really do have that experience of seeing someone's lips moving, but you can't hear anymore because you now are a person who has cancer.
Guest:And like five minutes before you thought you weren't.
Guest:And then you get, someone escorts you to where you go to get the CAT scan.
Marc:Right then, right after you talk to the doctor.
Guest:Yeah, because they're like, you have cancer.
Guest:We have to get this out of you immediately.
Guest:You have cancer, so there's no time to delay.
Guest:This has to get out of your body.
Guest:There's no time to delay.
Guest:I had a fucking, I had shows coming up.
Guest:I remember asking the doctor, I was like, well, can I put off this surgery until I do the shows?
Guest:He's like, you have cancer.
Yeah.
Guest:He's like, you can't delay this thing.
Guest:Like, no.
Guest:Because your logical mind is like, well, you know, I'll just put... This is something we'll take care of, Doc, but I've got to take care of, you know, business first.
Guest:So this woman escorts you because they know that you're in shock and they know that you're not going to be able to, like, find your way through Cedars-Sinai.
Guest:So they escort you to where you get your CAT scan.
Guest:And at the time, I'd just gotten into a relationship with somebody.
Guest:So...
Guest:i'm just thinking like shit man is she gonna break up with me because i have fucking cancer like now now she's dating a cancer guy you know so i'm looking at like a relationship maybe ending on top of my life maybe ending and of course getting one of my balls chopped off and just like what's this gonna do to my life and then but it's like all these thoughts are swirling through your mind you've got to call your family and tell them you know that this is gonna happen and
Guest:Uh, so it is, I just can't describe that feeling.
Guest:It's just a feeling of absolute helplessness.
Guest:There is no escape.
Guest:It's that feeling in a dream where you're like experiencing the very worst thing.
Guest:And then you're like, I'm going to wake up.
Guest:And then you wake up and you're like, fuck, that was awful, but I'm fine.
Marc:Close one.
Guest:no wake up yeah you don't wake up yeah and and so and so i think that that was um uh it's that that so what ended up happening is that i had actually stage 2a testicular cancer which meant that a couple of my lymph nodes were enlarged so could have been cancer maybe it wasn't cancer didn't matter after i got my ball chopped off i had to get radiation therapy for a month and uh
Guest:That, holy shit, man.
Guest:That is the most fucked up thing.
Guest:Getting your ball chopped off is like quick, easy.
Guest:They give you allotted shitloads of Vicodin.
Guest:You just get to sort of float around your house in like an opiated one ball haze.
Guest:But getting fucking radiation, wow.
Guest:Every day you've got to drive to this facility.
Guest:You lay down in this HR Giger looking machine.
Guest:They were playing like for the longest time they were playing like Gloria Esteban.
Guest:What's her name?
Guest:Just like terrible music as you're getting irradiated.
Guest:You're essentially getting your internal organs microwave, but you lay down on this thing.
Guest:where a lead cod piece is placed on your balls, and you lay in this thing, you can't move, and the machine's sort of like... RoboCop style, this giant machine sort of rotates around you, it's scanning you, finds the place where the lymph nodes are enlarged, and there's this awful clicking noise.
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
Guest:And then so that's it.
Guest:It's over really quick.
Guest:You put your clothes on and then right around like 5 p.m.
Guest:You just want to vomit.
Guest:You start feeling so sick and tired and they give you this awful anti-nausea medication that just makes you like just fucking so tired all day long.
Guest:You just feel like you have mono and you want to puke.
Guest:It's like being carsick for a month straight.
Guest:That was fucked up, man.
Guest:And then after that,
Guest:you have to go in you know every it started off like every two every four months every two months you start you go in for all these follow-up scans yeah and then after that you've got to wait a few days to hear if the cancer has returned and spread through your body so you're always being like it's not like it ends yeah it's like you're constantly getting this weird exam that you go to where if the doctor said where if something shows up you got to get chemo now yeah your hair is going to fall out you've got to get fucking chemo
Guest:So that again and again pushes your face against your own mortality.
Guest:Again and again pushes your face into the impermanence of your life and the impermanence of whatever thing that you're doing.
Guest:Whatever it is that you're doing, whether you're the fucking president, whether you're a janitor, whatever the thing is that you're doing, that thing will immediately get disrupted inevitably by disease, which happens to all people.
Guest:It's going to happen.
Guest:Yeah, it's definitely going to fucking happen.
Marc:How long have you been clean of it?
Guest:I just went in for, God, I've been clean of it for about a year.
Guest:And now I only have to go in once a year.
Guest:And I just went in for my last chest x-ray and everything's fine.
Guest:So now it's once a year I go in and get these tests.
Marc:Congratulations.
Guest:Thank you, my friend.
Guest:But the testicular cancer is the most treatable form of cancer.
Guest:There's like a 93% cure rate, if not more.
Guest:So it's just terrifying.
Guest:I mean, no matter what, it's fucking terrifying.
Marc:And then when did your mom pass during all this?
Guest:Well, my mom passed, so that happened right after my radiation therapy ended.
Marc:It was sudden?
Guest:No, she had breast cancer for years.
Marc:Oh, sorry.
Guest:And it spread into her bones.
Guest:Horrible.
Guest:It is horrible.
Guest:Yeah, it is really fucking horrible.
Guest:But it's also exactly what happens in this dimension if you have a human body.
Guest:You don't get bone cancer necessarily.
Guest:Cancer is terrible, but it is... You're going to leave the vessel.
Guest:You're going to bury your parents.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So that definitely is going to happen.
Guest:And all those things, man, it's like, you know... Sometimes people will say to me...
Guest:Oh, God, man, you just had the worst year ever.
Guest:And I always think of that Charles Bukowski poem, that it's the broken shoelace that sends a man to the madhouse.
Guest:Have you ever read that poem?
Marc:I don't think so.
Guest:Oh, it's so great.
Guest:It's not the big catastrophe.
Guest:It's the last straw.
Guest:It's the little droplets.
Guest:It's the Japanese water torture of life that's so much more intense.
Guest:And that's kind of why there's so many- What book is that in?
Guest:I don't know, I don't know.
Marc:What's it called?
Guest:Google search, it's the broken shoelace, Bukowski, and it'll pop up.
Guest:And this was the one that kind of knocked you out?
Guest:This didn't knock me out, but I think this is to me.
Marc:The shoelace, a woman, a tire that's flat, a disease, a desire, fears in front of you, fears that hold so still you can study them like pieces on a chessboard.
Marc:It's not the large things that send a man to the madhouse, death he's ready for,
Marc:murder incest robbery fire flood no it's the continuing series of small tragedies that send a man to the madhouse not the death of his love but a shoelace it snaps with no time left the dread of life is that swarm of trivialities that can kill quicker than cancer and which are always there license plates or taxes or expired driver's license or hiring or firing
Marc:doing it or having it done to you or roaches or flies or a broken hook on a screen or out of gas or too much gas the sink stopped up the landlord's drunk the president doesn't care and the governor's crazy light switch broken mattress like a porcupine
Marc:$105 for a tune-up, carburetor, and fuel pump at Sears Roebuck.
Marc:And the phone bill's up, and the market's down, and the toilet chain is broken, and the light has burned out.
Marc:The hall light, the front light, the back light, the inner light.
Marc:It's darker than hell and twice as expensive.
Marc:Then there's always crabs and ingrown toenails and people who insist they're your friends.
Marc:There's always that and worse.
Marc:Leaky faucet, Christ and Christmas.
Marc:blue salami, nine-day rains, 50-cent avocados, and purple liverwurst, or making it as a waitress at Norm's on the split shift, or as an emptier of bedpans, or as a carwash, or a busboy, or a stealer of old ladies' purses, leaving them screaming on the sidewalks with broken arms at the age of 80.
Marc:Suddenly, two red lights in your rearview mirror and blood in your underwear,
Marc:toothache and $979 for a bridge, $300 for a gold tooth, and China and Russia and America and long hair and short hair and no hair and beards and no faces and plenty of zigzag but no pot except maybe one to piss in and the other one around your gut.
Marc:With each broken shoelace, out of 100 broken shoelaces, one man, one woman, one thing enters a madhouse.
Marc:So be careful when you bend over.
Marc:that's it feel better yeah that was cathartic that was great so to finish up here when this happened to you you became mindful yeah and your spiritual practice became defined yes and what is that
Guest:I just meditate every day.
Guest:I read and I meditate.
Guest:I try not to... I try not to be reactive to my anger, but when I am, I don't beat myself up over it.
Guest:I don't think that I'm like... The thing that it's really... If it's given me anything, it's just given me the realization that I'm probably not going to change.
Guest:It's gotten rid of that delusion in my head, and it's allowed me to really just accept that this is how I am.
Guest:This is how I am.
Guest:And sometimes I send shitty texts to people who fucking piss me off, and sometimes I act happier than I am because I want people to think I'm peaceful when I'm not.
Guest:But sometimes I really am peaceful.
Guest:It's an always-changing thing.
Guest:It's just giving me a chance, if anything, just to see that.
Guest:Little individual flakes that are floating around in the snow globe of the self...
Guest:that are often hidden to us can be opened up when you sit down to meditate or run or whatever.
Guest:You don't have to sit down and meditate.
Guest:Do whatever.
Guest:The idea is just stop moving for a second.
Guest:You know, the whole fucking world is moving and moving and moving and moving.
Guest:They're always like poking you with some kind of emotional cattle prod to get you to go and go and go and go and go.
Guest:You don't even know what you're going for.
Guest:And it's like that idea that that that that realization like, fuck, you know what?
Guest:I'm not going to like I don't want to run around like that anymore.
Guest:I don't want to do something just because I think I should be doing it.
Guest:If I'm not inspired by something, I'm not going to I don't want to just keep doing it.
Guest:So that's what cancer and dying people teach you really quickly is it's just the cliche and all the cliches, all the songs live like you were dying, all the country songs.
Guest:It's really true.
Guest:There's a reason that those cliches emerge.
Guest:And that's because if you've gotten into this fucking terrible trance and you're flying on co-pilot,
Guest:Or autopilot, rather.
Guest:You're just running around like some fucking android that's just running this repetitive loop over and over and over and over again so that you're not happy right now and you're not even trying to be happy.
Guest:You're not even trying to be anything.
Guest:Look how fast time flies, man.
Guest:Like think when you go on vacation, that vacation you've been looking forward to for six months, going to Hawaii for a week.
Guest:All of a sudden you're on the plane coming back from Hawaii.
Guest:You are never even fucking in Hawaii because the entire time that you're waiting to go to Hawaii, you're looking forward to Hawaii into the future.
Guest:You're habituating yourself to this constantly looking forward to the next thing.
Guest:You get to Hawaii and suddenly you're supposed to be in the moment.
Guest:Now you're just thinking about getting the most out of that vacation.
Guest:Really ring that vacation.
Guest:Ring the fun out of that fucking vacation.
Guest:You gotta get the most out of it.
Guest:That's what they teach you.
Guest:And then suddenly you're on the plane.
Guest:Well, I think the same thing happens with your fucking deathbed.
Guest:This whole life.
Guest:Gone.
Guest:And then suddenly you're like laying on your deathbed, an IV drip of morphine going into your arm.
Guest:You're in some kind of hazy fog.
Guest:Whoever you love is maybe sitting next to you.
Guest:Maybe you're alone.
Guest:Maybe no one's there.
Guest:And you think, holy shit, I'm dying.
Guest:And that's it.
Guest:So it's like, I don't, I don't want that moment.
Guest:I don't want to be laying on my deathbed.
Guest:I'm certainly not living so that I can have a wonderful death experience, but I just want to live before I die.
Guest:And I know that's a cliche too, but I think there's something to be said for certain cliches.
Marc:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:There's there.
Marc:You know, some things are are repeated.
Marc:You know, look, I think that that the human experience, you know, in a practical sense, when it comes to to to life or death is it's a fairly short menu that there are certain things we know are going to happen.
Marc:And there are certain desires and things that we do to ourselves.
Marc:But it's not some weird, like, huge book of shit.
Marc:They all fall under the rubric of one or two things.
Marc:And I think what you're saying is true.
Marc:Those sayings are true for a reason.
Marc:But, you know, again, like we talked about earlier, is you can wrap your brain around it.
Marc:But to wrap your being around it is not going to happen until they wrap themselves around you.
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Guest:it's good to talk to you man great to talk to you too mark thank you so much what a blast thanks duncan
Marc:Love talking to that guy.
Marc:Testicular cancer, people.
Marc:Check your balls.
Marc:All right.
Marc:All right, so you know what to do.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com if you'd like.
Marc:Get the app if you're new to the show and you want to listen to all 400 and however many are there.
Marc:You can get the free app upgrade to the premium and then stream all of them.
Marc:Leave some comments.
Marc:You know, get into it with the douchebags there.
Marc:I don't know what to do with them.
Marc:There's some real garbage coming out of people, especially when they're women on this show, and it's disgusting.
Marc:You're disgusting.
Marc:You should check yourselves.
Marc:What else?
Marc:JustCoffee.coop, available at WTFPod.com.
Marc:Check my schedule.
Marc:I'm going to be in Cleveland.
Marc:Raleigh, North Carolina is coming up.
Marc:Moon Tower Comedy Fest.
Marc:I'm going to be at the Wild West Comedy Festival interviewing Vince Vaughn in a one-on-one WTF at a theater.
Marc:That should be fun.
Marc:What else?
Marc:What else?
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:I'm exhausted.
Marc:I'm exhausted.
Marc:Boomer lives!