Episode 475 - Allan Stephan
Guest:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fuckstables what the fuckadelics what the fuckleberry fins yeah okay that's enough i'm mark maron this is wtf thank you for listening thank you for being here i hope you're okay hope everything's all right with you
Marc:Today is Alan Steven Day.
Marc:Alan Steven, a comedian that many of you may not have heard of, but for those of you who know what my past is, and part of the darkness of that past being the year or so I spent at the comedy store back in the day, will know that I have an obsessive fascination with...
Marc:with what that place wrought upon the world for both good and bad.
Marc:And as some of you will know from my episodes with Yakov Smirnoff, Jimmy Walker, Don Barris, Jimmy Schubert, Carl Lebov, Pauly Shore, obviously to a certain degree, that I'm sort of amassing a weird and dark and not so dark history of the place.
Marc:And Alan Steven is another addition to that history.
Marc:as will another episode coming up shortly, Alan Bursky, just piecing stuff together or at least digging deeper into the dark and interesting history of the comedy store and its personal effect on me and on comedy and in general.
Marc:But Alan is an intense dude.
Marc:And when I first met Alan, when I became a doorman at the comedy store, I found him very intimidating and very frightening.
Marc:And I'm happy to report that I still find both of those to be true.
Marc:And I think Alan would be flattered by that.
Marc:Oh, I also wanted to say that Alan Steven reached out to me that I don't want to forget that Alan Steven reached out to me because he had heard some of those other interviews that I did with people from the comedy store and he wanted to set some things straight.
Marc:He said some of that was some some of it was not quite right.
Marc:So that's that's another element of this interview.
Marc:What else has happened?
Marc:There were torrential downpours here.
Marc:And I know that some of you out in the world, out in the country, Midwest, Southeast, East, have no sympathy for rain.
Marc:You've been dealing with snow.
Marc:Things are frozen.
Marc:Maybe pets are lost and frozen, perhaps.
Marc:Pipes freeze.
Marc:Everything freezes.
Marc:Things die.
Marc:Things get damaged permanently.
Marc:And the winter has been hard and cold and bitter and troubling.
Marc:I know that.
Marc:But it did rain here for a few days and it was fucking ridiculous.
Marc:I mean, this we needed the rain, man.
Marc:We needed it.
Marc:But it was flash flooding style rain.
Marc:Like what is happening?
Marc:Do I build an arc type of shit?
Marc:And I got a problem.
Marc:I got a problem that I'm going to hip you to, all right?
Marc:The problem is, is that my house, the crappy shit pile that it is up here on the hill in the garage out back here, my driveway, either over time or from whenever they poured the concrete, does not drain properly.
Marc:Water builds up.
Marc:And my only drainage, because no one put a fucking drain on my driveway when they conceived of putting the concrete down, what I had been depending on
Marc:as a drain, is just this cracked, broken hole over on the far side of my garage.
Marc:Always on my mind, this hole.
Marc:Because one time last year, two years ago, the hole clogged up with crap, leaves and bullshit, dirt and bullshit.
Marc:And then the water started to rise until it almost went into the garage.
Marc:I had about an inch before it flooded out the garage.
Marc:But I should have put a drain system in.
Marc:So my biggest fear was realized.
Marc:Torrential downpours, water building up quickly, crack hole that I depend on for a drain, backing up, not draining.
Marc:So now I've got a pool rising to the lip of the bottom of the garage door, which would flood out the concrete beneath my garage, creating mold and garbage and smell and God knows what.
Marc:panic i'm out there i'm fucking you know squeegeeing with a push broom in the middle of a torrential downpour now look this isn't katrina folks my home isn't floating away but i did have a sort of immediate empathy for those who who have to deal with water at that rate and and i you know and and it put it into a different perspective obviously again was not in trouble uh in terms of uh my life but
Marc:But my livelihood was a little in jeopardy.
Marc:If the garage flooded out, it would have been a big pain in the ass.
Marc:But I was proud that I was able to contextualize it and say, dude, you'll deal with this.
Marc:So now I got a hole that's backing up with water and water building up.
Marc:I run to the hardware store.
Marc:I go, give me, I need a snake.
Marc:I need a rooter.
Marc:I got to try to do something to move the shit through this hole that's not a pipe.
Marc:What do I do?
Marc:So I go out.
Marc:I bought a 25-foot rooter.
Marc:I come back out pouring rain.
Marc:I got my raincoat on.
Marc:My shoes are soaked through.
Marc:My pants are wet.
Marc:I'm on my knees running a 25-foot snake into a hole that's not a pipe.
Marc:thinking that might work no bottom to the hole the 25 feet went in with no uh context no no pipe to i didn't it was doing nothing it was as if i would have dropped it and it would just sunk to the bottom of the world
Marc:So now I got this backed up hole and no solution.
Marc:I freak out.
Marc:I call an architect I know, Jeremy Levine.
Marc:And I'm like, dude, dude, what do I do?
Marc:He goes, I can send some people.
Marc:I'm like, what are they going to jackhammer a channel?
Marc:I mean, they're going to have to jackhammer a channel for this to work out.
Marc:There's no other way.
Marc:I've already figured it out.
Marc:I'm a fucking engineer.
Marc:I can work these things through.
Marc:There's no way to solve this problem without jackhammering and building a moat.
Marc:And then me, the engineer, having no idea what I was talking about, Jeremy goes, well, maybe get some sandbags.
Marc:I'm like, sandbags.
Marc:You mean the things they build dams out of when levees break?
Marc:Sandbags.
Marc:You mean the things that have been used to hold back water and rechannel water since sandbags were invented?
Marc:Sandbags.
Marc:You mean the one thing I didn't fucking think about to do?
Marc:Go to Home Depot and get sandbags?
Marc:Sandbags.
Marc:So, freaking out in the middle of the rainstorm, my friend Dean Delray, who had just texted me 15 minutes before that he wanted to go record shopping in my neighborhood, who I said can't, busy.
Marc:So then when I get the sandbag idea, I'm like, fuck, man.
Marc:So I reach out to Delray.
Marc:I'm like, Delray, you here, man?
Marc:I need help.
Marc:He didn't know what kind of help, but he said, I'm coming, man.
Marc:So he came with another guy, this guy, Brempton Biddlecomb, a comic from the store, and they both show up, man.
Marc:I mean, that...
Marc:You've got to love the fact that sometimes comics are just out in the world gathering things, doing research.
Marc:And there's a cry for help.
Marc:Poor Dean gets over.
Marc:He's like, I didn't know what was going on, man.
Marc:I thought maybe you were in trouble.
Marc:I didn't know what was happening.
Marc:Like, no, dude, we've got to go get sandbags.
Marc:We've got to sandbag the garage.
Marc:The garage needs to be saved.
Marc:So we went to Home Depot.
Marc:We got Sam.
Marc:We got the bags.
Marc:We came back.
Marc:We loaded the bags.
Marc:Secured the garage.
Marc:The garage was secured in the middle of this horrible storm and everything else.
Marc:So I get the opportunity to present at the Independent Spirit Awards.
Marc:It's going to be me and Aubrey Plaza presenting.
Marc:Patton Oswalt is hosting.
Marc:It's the Indy Oscars in a way.
Marc:I was nervous.
Marc:I was excited.
Marc:I was thrilled to be part of it.
Marc:But also, of course, a little insecure, like, you know, why am I part of this?
Marc:I'm not big enough, but that's me.
Marc:So I take Moon and we go, we get dressed up, we get in her car.
Marc:You know, I got my passes, go valet park down Santa Monica.
Marc:You know, I'm very early because I'm like the guy like, why?
Marc:I don't I want to get there when there's still food there.
Marc:You know, that's the way I think about everything.
Marc:What if the food's gone?
Marc:So we're there too early.
Marc:We walk the red carpet.
Marc:There's no real fanfare.
Marc:A few pictures are taken, but none of the other celebrities are there for another hour.
Marc:Then we go to the schwag tent, get some schwag.
Marc:I'm not even sure people really did know who I was, but I had access, so I got some stuff.
Marc:But then, you know, everybody started showing up.
Marc:You know, I went.
Marc:I saw Patton.
Marc:You know, it was good to see him.
Marc:He was nervous.
Marc:I really wanted him to do well.
Marc:It's a very tough gig to host one of those things.
Marc:And, you know, I'm happy to report that in my heart I wanted him to do well.
Marc:And I walk in.
Marc:He's like, oh, God, this is just what I need.
Marc:This soul suck.
Marc:And I'm like, no, come on, man.
Marc:How you feeling?
Marc:But it was very interesting to be sitting in a room with Brad Pitt, Bruce Dern, Matthew McConaughey.
Marc:Sandberg was there.
Marc:Bill Hader I saw.
Marc:All the directors of all the movies.
Marc:The cast of 12 Years a Slave.
Marc:The cast of Cate Blanchett was there.
Marc:It was weird because I'm backstage.
Marc:I'm in the makeup room.
Marc:I'm going over some stuff.
Marc:Cate Blanchett is there talking to somebody.
Marc:I really I like movie stars to be movie stars, and I still struggle with the idea that these are just people.
Marc:And we're in the same community.
Marc:We're obviously not at the same level, but show business is a community of people.
Marc:Matthew McConaughey.
Marc:Jon Hamm was there and he busted my balls a little bit.
Marc:That was nice.
Marc:Who else was there?
Marc:Oh, Keanu Reeves was there.
Marc:I mean, it was just like crazy because you're just in this big room.
Marc:You don't see people coming and going.
Marc:And then all of a sudden I'm waiting to go on.
Marc:And I'm watching the monitors and there's they're cutting to these people, these these real movie stars.
Marc:And it was a little daunting, but exciting.
Marc:And I didn't really feel nervous going on stage in front of them.
Marc:You know, I watch Patton slug it out.
Marc:Not an easy gig.
Marc:Slugged it out like a goddamn pro.
Marc:I watch everybody's jokes just, you know, kind of hitting a wall.
Marc:And I realized, well, this is the nature of this.
Marc:This is what this is.
Marc:There's 2,000 people in this room sitting at tables, eating, wondering if they're going to win or they're not going to win.
Marc:But just seeing people in the pauses, in the empty spaces, in the moments of...
Marc:You know, when they're not on stage, just seeing, you know, the humanity of a of a Cate Blanchett or or even Jason Bateman.
Marc:I know a lot of people in my business.
Marc:They all hang around each other.
Marc:I don't hang around these these people.
Marc:And they're still kind of mythic to me.
Marc:And it's always it's a little bit of a struggle to feel like that I I deserve or I'm entitled to be at the situation like this.
Marc:But.
Marc:I went up there with Aubrey.
Marc:We did our little script that she actually, you know, we had been sent some jokes and she wanted to do something else.
Marc:And she came up with the idea of framing it in a podcast.
Marc:And I thought that was great.
Marc:So I chipped away at it a little.
Marc:It's only three lines.
Marc:But, you know, we knew going in, it's like this is not the warmest room in the world.
Marc:You know, we went up there to present the John Cassavetes aboard.
Marc:And it went, you know, it went OK.
Marc:We got a little laugh and, you know, I stayed in it and it was good.
Marc:You know, I didn't freak out.
Marc:I didn't have expectations out of the audience.
Marc:I just was going to do my bit and show a little respect to the winner of that award.
Marc:And then that was that.
Marc:We went through the whole thing.
Marc:I think McConaughey and Jared Leto had some good speeches.
Marc:It was fascinating.
Marc:You know, it's just like I'm looking in this room and I'm looking, you know, at the screens and I'm looking at the ceremony.
Marc:And to me, it's like, you know, this is a rare air these people live in.
Marc:You know, these are all people I've known all my life, but they don't know me.
Marc:And, you know, some of them are my heroes.
Marc:But I'll tell you, the great leveler in this situation was waiting for the valet.
Marc:There I was.
Marc:There's John Waters waiting for his car.
Marc:There's Keanu, the biggest star in the world for a number of years.
Marc:We're just waiting for a car, hoping it doesn't rain.
Marc:Just people waiting for a car.
Marc:I mean, the difference was they were waiting for limos.
Marc:I was waiting for someone to bring Moon's car around.
Marc:It's a nice car, but you know.
Marc:i guess i could have had a limo but like i'm not even you know paying enough attention to my email to know that that that one was sent to my house but nonetheless it's those moments where you know everyone becomes people sometimes it's tragedy other times it's just waiting for your car just waiting for the car to come all right let's talk to alan steven
Marc:My experience, my knowledge of you, Alan Steven, it's very weird because my memories are so specific and so in a short time window.
Marc:I mean, I was at the comedy store maybe less than a year and I got fucked out of my brain on drugs.
Marc:When I got there, you were this mythic figure.
Marc:You're on the road.
Marc:And then one day I picked you up at the airport with Jim Schubert.
Marc:Wow, your memory's way better than mine.
Marc:Oh, I know, because they resonate with me.
Marc:And then I saw you after that in the back bar, and I said I made some joke to you, and you just looked at me and goes, what, you give me a ride home from the airport?
Marc:We're fucking friends now?
Marc:Well, you know, my humor can be taken wrong.
Marc:You're also the only guy I ever saw that would ask for the lights to be dimmed in the OR.
Marc:That was the first time I saw that.
Marc:Like when Alan would go on, all of a sudden he'd be like, the lights are down.
Marc:But you were there forever.
Marc:Like, I've talked to Jimmy Walker.
Marc:I've talked to a couple of store guys.
Marc:I mean, the guys who actually know the history of the Comedy Store.
Marc:I mean, I talked to Don Barris, but he came in a little before me.
Guest:I came in late 75.
Guest:So it was two years in.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And Jimmy Walker, the first time I sold a joke was to him.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And where did you come from?
Marc:South Jersey.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:So the big plan was I'm going to go be a comedian.
Marc:No.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:I was a child actor.
Guest:Listen, I'm in pain in this business a long time.
Guest:I did TV commercials.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Marc:What years are we talking about?
Marc:I mean... 60s.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Aniston.
Guest:Remember they had a campaign?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:You're tense.
Guest:You're irritable.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But don't take it out on him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I was the him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think there might have been a tire one for Pirelli Tires or something.
Guest:Mostly commercials, though?
Guest:All commercials.
Guest:And then my parents wanted me to go to school.
Guest:So I went back into high school, and I hated it, because when I was in South Jersey, it was all trees.
Guest:You can't find one, though.
Guest:I was in Voorhees, and I went to the same high school as Kelly Ripa.
Guest:And I was the first full graduating class.
Guest:So it was basically, how do I put this?
Guest:Hicks.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And here I am.
Guest:I also modeled.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I have clothes before it comes out.
Guest:I'm gone from school a lot.
Guest:So I'm the odd man out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So to speak.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I plan to, then I was booking bands for a mob front club.
Guest:agency early relationship with the mafia and what bands were they big bands well it was bands for like the hyatt yeah jerry hill this kind of thing yeah and uh i was the first guy you know they used to make the owners come to the clubs well i was the first guy and they'd wheel it in on a tray we're going way back yeah yeah and it was a vhs machine yeah that was like the size of a washer
Marc:It was probably a Betamax.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, huge.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'd wheel it in, and I'd have all my bands on tape.
Guest:And they were just like, wow.
Guest:And so I'd book them all in one day, and I'm done.
Guest:What bands?
Guest:Anybody?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:It was all local things.
Guest:Like, there was a nine-piece band.
Guest:There was a great girl singer.
Guest:And I also had Flip Wilson's Double.
Guest:And I couldn't get the Cherry Hill Hyatt House to book my bands.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I tried and I tried.
Guest:Of course, the mob guy that I finally met, we went there one night.
Guest:He tried.
Guest:He couldn't pull it off?
Guest:No.
Guest:He was an older man.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:It was the first time I've ever saw power work.
Guest:The waitress came over and he wrote his name on a $100 bill, ripped it in half, handed it to her and said, call me.
Guest:You'll get the other half.
Guest:And I went, what a pompous ass.
Guest:Next time I see him, the limo opens.
Guest:There's the waitress.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:I swear to God.
Guest:So it's now New Year's.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I think the day before that day, the Hyatt calls me.
Guest:We lost our big act.
Guest:Do you have anything?
Guest:They go, yeah, I'm friends with Flip Wilson.
Guest:He happens to be in town.
Guest:Well, I had the double.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I got to say to this idiot who's dying to perform.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he looks dead on like him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When they play your theme song, you come out, you do four or five jokes, and we got to get out of here before they realize you're not him.
Guest:I said, listen, I'm hanging with Flip tonight.
Guest:It's New Year's.
Guest:I'll stop in.
Guest:I'll save you.
Marc:So it was not a full show.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:yeah the theme music starts they're laughing at this guy and i see you know i'm not a comic yet but i recognize the look at i'm not getting off uh-huh so finally i just walked up there and go flip we got another engagement yeah and i went right out the back door and the next day they called me and said we'll take your bands
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So they had no idea?
Guest:No.
Marc:That's a good story in show business politics.
Guest:You pulled it off.
Guest:So then I got tired of that, loaded up the car, moved to Beverly, as they say.
Marc:What was your family?
Marc:Are you a Jewish guy?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In South Jersey?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:What was the old man's business?
Guest:Lumber.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And then for 17 years, and then Casino Boss.
Marc:Really?
Guest:When Atlantic City opened up.
Marc:Early on in Atlantic City.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:When it was just sort of like, you know, there was the boardwalk and then there was just wreckage everywhere.
Guest:Well, it's not much different.
Guest:You know, the real gamble there is winning and trying to get to your car.
Guest:So that's for real, Matt.
Guest:So where was the first time you did stand-up?
Guest:Well, interestingly enough, I moved into this green building that's old at the bottom of Laurel Canyon.
Marc:But you hadn't done stand-up in Jersey.
Guest:No.
Guest:Well, actually, if you want to hear that horrible story, I'm dating a girl who I loved.
Guest:She works at a steak and ale, steak and brew or something.
Marc:In Jersey.
Guest:Yeah, and a lounge by the Garden State Racetrack.
Guest:And I go in the lounge, and there's a brother-sister team.
Guest:She plays drums, he plays the organ, and they're great.
Guest:but i get up in between and i play a little drums yeah so i play a drums and then i go off from the philly guys hey nice white belt you little sucker yeah so the uh guy who owns it catches that one night he says how would you like to make this your room on the weekend so all i do is greet people and then rip them apart on stage you know i don't think it's comedy but they laugh yeah
Guest:So, their New Year's is coming up.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And the band, play another funky song, White Boy.
Marc:Yeah, play that funky music, White Boy.
Guest:I think they appeared, and he said, hey, you want to open for them?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And not thinking, and I did what everybody does.
Guest:I took a little bit of this guy, a little bit of Robert Klein, a little bit of this, and of course, nothing matches.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And my parents came, the place is packed, and I'm eating a sandwich, you know, I don't know what to do.
Guest:Right.
Dead.
Dead.
Guest:dead silence the whole time i mean when i started comedy i've never had a show like this and a friend of mine that i grew up with is with me and the only one laughing is my father yeah when i say laughing hysterically he's the only guy in the room laughing yeah but hysterically you know they don't even they're looking at him like he's crazy right so i get off stage and i literally threw up in the parking lot yeah and when i got home i said man what the hell were you laughing at he goes
Guest:The pain.
Guest:What kind of idiot doesn't know when they're losing?
Guest:He said, you just kept going and it was killing me.
Guest:And then I loaded up the car.
Guest:I had no desire to be a comedian.
Guest:And somehow I'm on a party on Larrabee Street in West Hollywood on the top of the roof.
Guest:And there is a...
Guest:The guy from Car 54.
Marc:Ooh, ooh, ooh.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:What was that guy?
Guest:Joey Ross.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I'm on the roof, and I meet Mitchell Walters.
Guest:This is where?
Guest:In West Hollywood.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:On the roof of an apartment building.
Guest:There's a pool.
Guest:There's a party going on.
Guest:And that guy's there?
Guest:Not only is there, I'm a fan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I grew up watching it.
Guest:So I walk over, and he's looking what I think is out looking over the city.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:When I go over there, I reach my hand out to talk to him.
Guest:He's pissing off the roof.
Guest:I go, Mr. Ross, I'm such a... And he turns, and I go, what the fuck?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, nice to meet you.
Guest:And, you know, your whole thing about the illusion of this guy is just out the window.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You know, as far as I know, he fell into the part now.
Guest:So I meet Mitchell Walters, and a guy, his name just came to me, Bobby Lorde.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I remember that guy's name.
Guest:I think he wound up... He snapped, I thought I heard.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wound up maybe... Nuts?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, he was a comic or a singer?
Guest:Yeah, he was a comic.
Guest:And I started to hang out with Mitchell and him.
Guest:This is 75.
Guest:Yeah, under 75.
Marc:And Mitchell's like, you know, he's sort of a mythic guy.
Marc:If you're a store guy or you're a comedian, just this, you know, where's Mitchell Walters?
Marc:What's that guy up to?
Guest:Well, back then, I think he was helping Freddie Prinze out.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And...
Guest:So I started hanging with him and Bob.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would do wacky things.
Guest:We're in the market, and I'd lay in the frozen food section, and they'd walk by, and I'd pop up.
Guest:And after a while, they said, you're funny.
Guest:I want to try the comedy store.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So you hadn't been over there yet?
Guest:No.
Guest:This is before the resurgence of comedy.
Guest:There's nothing.
Marc:Well, this is the beginning of the store, really, the first couple years, right?
Marc:I can't even imagine what the fuck it was like.
Marc:So they're telling you got to go.
Guest:Here's what it was like.
Guest:The original rooms, half its size.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:The main room is a Mexican disco run by Art Lebeau.
Guest:Upstairs is closed off.
Guest:The bar is really unusable.
Marc:So it's like it's in disrepair and it seems temporary.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And her office is at the bottom of the steps between the bathrooms with a desk, some cigarettes and a jar and some bubble gum.
Guest:So it's almost like she's just occupied a building.
Guest:She basically just got the door.
Guest:Mitzi.
Guest:She was renting the space from Art LeBeau.
Guest:So somewhere along the line, she opens Westwood.
Marc:Art LeBeau, what's his path?
Guest:He was a DJ in town, a large DJ.
Guest:And he owned the building?
Guest:well he held the lease i think yeah and leased to her because this is a great story yeah at some point i'm jumping ahead yeah uh she buys the building right and throws him out but he still has a lease right so he throws her out uh-huh and for about eight months it was called the funny farm he tries to get in the comedy business this is when you were there yeah now westwood which he had started
Guest:blows up because of that yeah she's got all the comics nobody's going to the funny farm right and uh so westwood's huge uh-huh so i go there on their monday night and i uh do my thing with some props yeah and i'm horrible yeah and they needed comics so she said okay so westwood was like hey this is the truth they needed comics now now so the guy pumping your gas goes hey i do comedy too why don't you come see my show you know what i mean yeah i got 10 minutes
Guest:yeah so the store becomes huge what in westwood yeah the line literally is about 500 people up the street now who's the guy on the bill who's what's a bill look like that you know oh well you had paul mooney this is 75 jay leno or 76 david letterman yeah uh probably 76 now jimmy walker so that's a hell of a bill
Guest:Oh, well, it was 17 guys that were really headliners and the rest were, what the hell?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because those same 17 kind of are involved with starting the comedy strike later on.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But in the meantime, you can't believe what's going on.
Guest:This place is packed till two in the morning, seven days a week.
Guest:In Westwood.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:And I'm telling you, it wraps around the corner.
Guest:It was up Westwood Boulevard and down another street.
Guest:And Mooney would stay on like he always does to like 3, 3.30 in the morning.
Guest:We'd just stop serving liquor.
Guest:So I think 79, I'll jump ahead, I'm working making sandwiches for office buildings.
Guest:You know, 400 turkey, 400 this, and somebody delivers them.
Guest:Where at that?
Guest:You were at a catering company?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, there's two gay guys in a building.
Guest:I don't know what they were catering.
Guest:And Argus found out, and he told Mitzi, and she sent me to La Jolla.
Guest:I think I'm the only guy that played there maybe five, six, seven months straight.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And, well, the trade-out is I had to take 13-year-old or 12-year-old Paulie.
Guest:yeah and babysit him yes yeah so he would get up every morning at four and go surfing and then when his brother'd visit there was two of them so i'd stand on the pier because if they drowned i'm out of business peter yeah yeah and uh one day paulie says hey they want to know why my father keeps watching us and i just looked him in the face i said anything happens to you kid i'm dead in the water
Guest:if you're dead in the water i'm dead in the water but he hadn't gotten into women yet so i went through him telling me the story yeah sandy short decides to get married the sister yeah and her and the mom really don't get along she says i'm not paying for the wedding and i don't blame her yeah because four months earlier she said i'm getting married i said to who she's i don't know right so it's some really straight guy from the navy he does not know that the adams family he's marrying the adams family
Guest:So she comes to me, and I'm very close with them.
Guest:So she comes to me and says, Mom won't pay for the wedding.
Guest:So I go upstairs, and I go, listen, you guys have enough problems.
Guest:It's wrong.
Guest:It's not going to end well.
Guest:I go, listen, just pay.
Guest:And she's, oh, all right.
Guest:So she finally gives in.
Guest:Now she's a chanter.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, Sandy, right?
Guest:I kind of remember that.
Guest:So the wedding is in the desert at some chapel, and all she's worried about is that the comics, her father, Ollie Joe, White Biner.
Guest:Sammy Shore, yeah.
Guest:Wait till you hear this story with Sammy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We're in the middle of nowhere, and she's just, please, please don't do anything.
Guest:The big muckety-muck's marrying us.
Guest:Please.
Guest:Fluid special.
Guest:From the Nam-ya-ho, the Buddhist.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But the big muckety-muck.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And she's very nervous about that.
Guest:Not the wedding.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She don't even know the guy.
Guest:She don't care about him.
Marc:Why the hell was she marrying?
Marc:Was this after she went out with Dice?
Guest:uh no i don't think so this might have been before yeah and then this is the greatest story yeah we're on one side the comics the pirates yeah on the other side is everybody in the orange oh yeah the robes yeah yeah now here come a few in the orange things waving the incense uh-huh
Guest:Now the big muckety-muck comes down, and he barely speaks English.
Guest:He marries them, and as he steps down the stage, he makes face contact with Sammy Shore.
Guest:He goes, Sammy Shore, you're my favorite comic.
Guest:Well, the night takes a turn.
Guest:It's one of the greatest parties ever, ever.
Guest:We got these people doing crap they never would do.
Guest:And I think about six months later, Mitzi says, well, thanks.
Guest:They're getting a divorce.
Guest:And I go, wait a minute.
Guest:I think I have that in the pool.
Guest:She goes, you had a pool going?
Guest:I go, of course.
Guest:You didn't think I thought I was going to live.
Guest:So anyway, at the same time, Mitzi bought down her brother for the wedding.
Guest:And he's deaf.
Guest:So he's sharing the condo with Paulie and I. And Paulie tells me he lost, you know, he's no longer a virgin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And he starts telling me the story.
Guest:And I said, excuse me, because I got to go out in the balcony.
Guest:I smoked that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm smoking a cigarette and I'm pissed off because this kid's like 15 years ahead of himself.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I know the girl in the building.
Guest:She's a stunning, stunning 13-year-old.
Guest:So I go back in and I go, so what else happened?
Guest:Well, I took some frozen hot dogs and I was putting them inside.
Guest:Wait, I got to go outside and smoke a cigarette.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:I haven't even done the frozen hot dog thing.
Yeah.
Guest:Long story short, the next day at the wedding, Mitzi says, thanks for keeping my brother up all night.
Guest:I go, the deaf guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, you know, these are all true stories.
Guest:They're just bizarre.
Marc:Yeah, they are bizarre.
Marc:But when you got there, when you started working there and she started doing- Steve Landesberg was the big gun.
Marc:And they were dating, right?
Marc:Mitzi and Steve.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'd go over to the house and here's how he disciplined Pauly.
Guest:Pauly, stop it.
Guest:I'll rip your dick off.
Guest:He was funny, right?
Yeah.
Guest:beyond funny and a really nice man you know i had a film that's been postponed and he was going to be in it and sadly he uh passed away was prior coming in too oh yeah but he really starts when she takes back sunset after the funny firm farm well what happens is his lease ran out yeah she owns the building now
Guest:And she tosses him.
Guest:She enlarges the original room, makes the main room back into a showroom, and eventually breaks into the walls and starts cleaning up upstairs because I found a great album I have of all the pictures from people from Ciro's, all the stars.
Guest:You got it?
Guest:Sammy Davis, Jerry Lewis.
Guest:I took it.
Marc:You still have it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So were you there when Lubitkin jumped off the building and everything?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In fact, I was in the building.
Guest:you were in the store when it happened yeah and sadly you know how comedians are right away it was you know uh it's raining comedians you know all right so so what is the scenario so who are the guys so argus is there dreesen is there you're there well here's her inner circle binder ollie argus ollie joe prater yeah a couple guys that fell by the wayside and me okay we're you're on team mitzi
Guest:Well, we're in a circle.
Guest:Before anybody made money, she used to take us on vacation.
Guest:We'd go to Palm Springs.
Guest:She'd hang with us.
Guest:She was magnificently funny and completely different before the strike.
Marc:So how did it happen?
Marc:Because by the time the strike happened, she was having a lot of success, correct?
Guest:Well, Westwood was flying.
Guest:The original room's doing well.
Guest:And now she's trying this big room.
Guest:It's a 350, 400 seater.
Guest:Nobody's done that.
Guest:Bud didn't have that nobody.
Guest:yeah nobody in the country really had it you know it was an awkward time because there was only a few nightclubs you could play like i think something mr something in chicago the playboy clubs there's no comedy club yeah bud's really in new york he had just moved out here right and uh in new york it was improv comedy singers you know uh less moon vest
Guest:the big mogul yeah uh i think it was bouncer bartender at the improv in new york right and uh uh chris albrecht yep was the manager yeah he was the doorman too originally in the on uh in new york the original improv yeah so when they come out uh he's doing okay but that's when their competition thing starts right between the two of them
Guest:And, uh, uh, eventually she gets this main room going and it's doing well.
Guest:And these guys go, Hey, we'd like a taste.
Guest:The comics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She says, you know, go fuck yourself.
Guest:It's a workshop.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't need.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:When you make this room, now you're ready to go out into the world.
Guest:So fuck you.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:So I can't tell you how it was before the strike.
Guest:The biggest guy, the littlest guy, nobody's on TV.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I remember we all were celebrating Tom Dreesen's first Tonight Show.
Guest:We went to the rib joint in Beverly Hills.
Guest:And we're all one.
Marc:One for all and all for one.
Marc:Yeah, because it was new.
Marc:Like modern stand-up comedy was being invented before your eyes.
Guest:Like I didn't hang.
Guest:It was like high school.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm like a sophomore.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Leno and these guys are like seniors.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So how did the strike come to happen?
Guest:Well, they decide they want to taste.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So she won't give it to him, basically.
Guest:So Elaine Boosler, who I was close, we were all fairly close.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She said, basically, she came to me.
Guest:Well, you're the leader of the nobodies, is basically what she was saying.
Guest:Can you help us organize?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so they put the word out and their first meeting was in the original room yeah and i look around and there's people there's homeless people there's cabbies that just stopped anybody who ever thought of being a comic because it was in the papers showed up and leno's on stage yeah yeah we got a snake here and uh in fact steve landisberg come on up and say something
Guest:Landisberg.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Landisberg takes the stage and he goes like, yes, one, two, three, four.
Guest:There's only five comics here.
Guest:Who are these other people?
Guest:And he walks off stage.
Guest:So we know where he stands.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And we're all together.
Guest:The idea was get this guy in Newport.
Guest:He had a bunch of clubs.
Guest:Bud had the improv.
Guest:She had that.
Guest:So it's get everybody.
Guest:And as these clubs start to open around the country, they'll have to pay.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:Sounds good to me.
Guest:Well, they keep having these meetings, having these meetings.
Guest:And in one of them, I remember Gallagher going, let's just get the cunt and all fall in line.
Guest:And that's where they lost me.
Guest:In fact, I was in a bud, by the way, immediately kisses ass.
Guest:You can have your meetings in my place.
Guest:And whatever she does, I will do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Which not only did he not do, which I'll get to, but there's a class action suit for comics if they actually wanted it.
Guest:So the last meeting I was at was there, and Tom Dreesen says, if you don't go along with us, then get out.
Guest:And I said, I raised my hand.
Guest:He goes, what?
Guest:And I go, you know, I'm a Jew.
Guest:That's how they got us on the trains.
Guest:What's your point?
Guest:And I go, I think we should have this.
Guest:Boom, I'm thrown out.
Guest:Next comes Marty Cohen.
Guest:I go, what'd they throw you out for?
Guest:I started with the Jew stuff, too.
Guest:Then comes Smith Maynard, who's Gentile.
Guest:I go, what'd you get thrown out?
Guest:He goes, you guys made me crazy.
Yeah.
Guest:So now they align with a union called AGVA.
Guest:AGVA was for circus clowns and high divers on horses, and they're crooked as crooked can be, and they're on their way out.
Guest:Well, because they aligned with them,
Guest:SAG, AFTRA, all the other guilds had to pretend that they're backing it.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Because they were union people.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They have to back the other units, unfortunately.
Guest:And they're not happy about it.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:So they have a meeting, I just remember, in a big theater.
Guest:And it's like the movie Fist.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Bursky and I are sitting there.
Guest:And the president of AGFA starts talking.
Guest:And I raise my hand.
Guest:And I go, hey, what happened to the funds that you built your pool with?
Mm-hmm.
Guest:And somebody says, shut up.
Guest:And Bryce goes, fuck you.
Guest:And before you know it, it's literally like fistfights.
Guest:You were just making a union joke?
Guest:No, we were telling the truth.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You've done some research on the game?
Guest:Well, by now, we've taken sides.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And nobody's crossing the line.
Guest:And sadly, there's signs out front that are so clever.
Guest:No yucks, no bucks, no yucks.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it's on the news at night.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Because Leno's out.
Guest:Everybody's out there picketing.
Guest:And Paulie's on the roof peeing on them.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I think Ollie Joe or Leno might have hit somebody with a motorcycle or a car.
Guest:I remember Leno personally standing at the door and go, this guy's not funny.
Guest:He'll never be funny.
Guest:Don't go in there.
Marc:He might have had a point at that time.
Marc:Because you were on the other side.
Guest:At this point, yeah.
Guest:I didn't like the idea of just getting her.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I didn't feel it was right.
Guest:It had nothing to do with comedy.
Guest:To me, it was a sense of fairness.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I have been in, because I was a child actor, SAG since I'm 11.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so at some point they tried to make peace jimmy tries marty klein who owned apa tries between mitzi and the comics yeah yeah and there's several many many meetings and many many uh readings with the guys oh this went on for a while and she keeps saying no no and uh and people are afraid to come through the line but they come comics or the people you know but comics like argus ollie binder you know we had five minutes now we're doing 20. right
Guest:I'm not saying they're laughing, but we're doing 20.
Guest:You know, there's like 10 of us.
Guest:And Binder's like 12 years old, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Kid comedy, he called himself.
Guest:I met him.
Guest:He was carrying props for Lenny Schultz, if you remember this guy.
Guest:Oh, my God, sure.
Guest:Towards the end, now there's a lot of hatred going on for everybody, both sides.
Guest:You know, I'm kind of jumping here.
Guest:But towards the end, they say, SAG put out the word, they're going to pull your card if you cross the line.
Guest:Now, not many of them are in SAG, but they're terrified.
Guest:So I said, hey, Mitzi, I'm going to go over there and talk to SAG.
Guest:She said, you have all my lawyers behind you.
Guest:Do whatever you want.
Guest:So I went there, and I sat with some guy, and he gets up, and he shuts the door.
Guest:He goes, you fucking idiot comics.
Guest:I go, I beg your pardon?
Guest:He goes, the fuck?
Guest:Lining your cells with Agva?
Guest:I ought to beat the shit out of you right here.
Guest:And I go, I just want to know, are you going to pull cards?
Guest:He goes, we don't give a fuck if you fall off a cliff.
Guest:Of course, that's confidential.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I go and there's Marty Klein, Jimmy Walker, everybody.
Guest:I said, they're not pulling cards.
Guest:And that's when we all crossed the line.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I kind of jumped there.
Guest:That's when we crossed the line.
Guest:And then it was very, very ugly.
Guest:And what happened is.
Guest:Between comics now.
Guest:What happened is Tom Dreesen makes himself the leader.
Guest:This is the other problem I had.
Guest:He's literally he goes on Dinah Shore and says he's the godfather of comedy.
Guest:Treason.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I'm thinking, what happened to Bob Hope?
Guest:So and I like Tom now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But for a lot of years, we didn't talk.
Guest:And, you know, I was blackballed.
Guest:I'd go into auditions and they go, you know, I don't even get out.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Because they any of the bigger guys that got stuff would try to blackball you.
Guest:So because of that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So one night we hear they're going to settle.
Guest:So there's a bunch of comics there.
Guest:Marcia Warfield knows Tom Dreesen from Chicago.
Guest:And we're sitting in a booth and he comes down.
Guest:He goes, well, strike settled.
Guest:She goes, what are we getting?
Guest:He goes, well, it's just the 17 of us that are getting money.
Guest:When you work your way up to the main room, you'll get that money.
Guest:She goes, yeah, but you use the masses to get it.
Guest:And he walks back upstairs and starts to strike all over again.
Guest:really yeah marshall warfield did that well she said well she was right yes no she was right a thousand people for 17 right you know we didn't need the aggravation right a lot of guys walk the line yeah like johnny dark i have breakfast breakfast with him almost every other day at uh jerry's and he it was a gentleman then and a gentleman now he never said oh alan you're a piece of shit where the other guys
Guest:Literally, after the strike, it took about three years, but Leno walked up to me one night, and he goes, I never thought you'd be funny.
Guest:That was great.
Guest:I said, thank you, you scab.
Guest:He said that to you.
Guest:Yeah, and during the strike, George Miller, you remember him?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're his buddies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But George did drugs and smoked pot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he'd knock at my door at 2 in the morning and go, yep, I got some stuff.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I go, yeah, come on in.
Guest:And then as he's leaving, he goes, I'll deny I even know you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:oh my god so i would walk by them and the first guy to say something is george you look look at you you scab bastard yeah and i we know what's really going on right i don't think anybody knows that to from his side yeah till just now yeah so uh um the strike had ended yeah and she agreed to pay 25 in the original room 50 on the weekends and half the door would be split with the comics in the main room yeah
Guest:I think it's still that way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Bud, who said he'd follow anything she did, paid $17 like he still does or whoever has it now and takes out taxes.
Guest:And the whole point of the strike is Mitzi went all the way to Supreme Court to prove her independent contractors.
Guest:If you take out taxes and a check.
Guest:If I fall, I should be covered.
Guest:Well, I'm not.
Guest:So the improv kind of in my book is a class action suit waiting to happen.
Guest:Interesting.
Marc:So ultimately, what do you think her fight was?
Marc:What was she afraid of?
Marc:I mean, if the business was successful, that's the one thing when I read it.
Guest:You got to remember, she had a big mortgage, the Pinto.
Guest:It's not like she had money.
Guest:It's just starting to come.
Guest:And she has the mortgage of the building.
Guest:There's a lot going on for her financially.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So and also but she had it framed in her head that that it did she really believe that the comics did not deserve to be.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And she was a different person after that.
Guest:She felt she was stabbed in the back.
Guest:She was never the same.
Guest:Never, ever the same.
Guest:She got hard.
Guest:that's when she started this is why i called you you said you were afraid of her but don barris said he was afraid of her that's when it started after the strike she became uh distant not to the people that knew her but she didn't like anybody knowing she wanted that you were afraid of her and uh in fact one night uh
Guest:uh when she uh opened vegas yeah you know when it got around the vegas at the dunes that's when she really starts making money i'm in the green room there with the comics she comes into the room you know how she gets her creative moments yeah jackie banana sure sure she told me i should wear a scarf okay yeah alan you should wear a white suit and tell grape nut jokes i wish i was making that up yeah i still don't know what that means yeah
Guest:so i looked at her in front of everybody and i said you know what you should do you should ought to go fucking hire the guy you're talking about and she leaves the room she goes you know you're right huh and she leaves the room the comms go we've never seen anybody do that but they hadn't had that you were newer longer by that point i mean i overstepped the boundary you did because i know there's nothing to be afraid of and i just busted her cover
Guest:Right.
Marc:But only because you have the history.
Guest:I imagine the other guys in the room... Well, she doesn't like the history.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So what she does is doesn't send me to Vegas for two years.
Guest:And about four months later, again, I'm sitting with her in the booth and she again pokes me and goes, they need to be afraid of me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I said, what's the big... They need to be afraid of me.
Guest:I don't want anything to happen again.
Guest:Really?
Guest:It took me two years to get back in Vegas because I overstepped the line.
Marc:So she understood the castle and the power that she wielded.
Guest:Well, at that time, networks are asking her to cast.
Guest:Johnny Carson's coming in nightly.
Guest:Working out bits?
Guest:It's the place to be.
Guest:No, he's coming in to pick up comics.
Guest:Well, he's drunk with some women, but he's in between lives.
Marc:So after the strike, everything... Okay, so everyone's getting paid.
Marc:She's now kind of...
Guest:Well, we're sent to Siberia, which is Westwood.
Guest:Who?
Guest:My guys.
Guest:That becomes our clubhouse.
Marc:Prior starts coming in.
Guest:Yeah, and that really sets her on the map.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Really.
Guest:And I'm saying all three rooms and Westwood, seven nights a week from opening to closing pack.
Guest:what's like 77 yeah 77 all the way into 81 82 when the clubs start opening up right and that what i knew was going to be vaudeville yes you know 15 in one town yeah how much comedy can you support right so i barely worked that and uh but she was very different after that very different
Guest:but she did maintain her power for a long time i'll tell you how much so you've had jimmy shubert on the show yeah you know he limps yeah i know well i remember that's when i got there when he i went with him to get his cast off okay yeah well you know how he kept that leg how he comes up to me one night he said are you alan yeah i said yeah and i did the same thing i do with you yeah
Guest:Why would you approach me?
Guest:I don't know you.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, fuck you.
Guest:You know, that was my thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And if you busted me, I'd laugh.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, but if you didn't, I'd play along.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:It'd just leave me scared.
Guest:And I'm literally sitting in the original room and I go outside because he upset me.
Guest:He goes, well, Biff said to talk to you.
Guest:You've slept with her.
Guest:And Jimmy is now her boyfriend at the time.
Guest:yeah young jimmy what was he 20 22 he talked about that on the show yeah yeah so what happened is uh i said well maybe she listens to me because i haven't slept with her uh-huh i said i know what the room what did he want what did he want well he says and he's in tears now uh the county's gonna take my leg i have no money they're just gonna cut it off it's easier i said yeah so what do you want from me
Guest:He goes, well, I said, are you the guy banging Mitzi?
Guest:He goes, yeah.
Guest:And I go, and she won't save your leg?
Guest:You must be a fucking lousy leg.
Guest:And he has no sense of humor at this point.
Guest:His leg is going, so he's not laughing at me.
Guest:From the motorcycle thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I go upstairs, and I open her door, and I just sit down in front of her, and she's working at the desk, and I don't say anything.
Guest:She goes, what do you want?
Guest:I go, a leg.
Yeah.
Guest:She goes, what are you talking about?
Guest:I go, seriously, how mad can you be?
Guest:Because they were arguing.
Guest:How mad can you be that you let that kid go lose a leg?
Guest:Are you out of your fucking mind?
Guest:What do you want?
Guest:$10,000.
Guest:That's what the leg cost.
Guest:So I came downstairs and I said, wait a little while.
Guest:Go up there, take her on the desk and get you 10 grand.
Guest:basically what happened so now it becomes really high school there's groups yeah you know what i mean there's the potheads there's the cokers there's the drunks there's the straights there's those like leno just want to be famous and get the hell out of there because i remember him saying the idea is to get out of here right so uh that's interesting yeah so dreesen doesn't talk to me boozler uh bill kirkenbauer uh-huh
Guest:They still don't talk to me.
Guest:Dreesen does.
Guest:It took about 20 years.
Guest:And I understand it, but I also know how unions work.
Guest:What would have happened with these guys in charge is their guys would be working and they'd decide who was funny.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because they thought they'd set a pay scale for around the country.
Guest:The comics did.
Guest:No, Dreesen and his group.
Guest:Well, what's wrong with that is who is Dreesen to say I only deserve $100?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know what I'm saying?
Guest:Right.
Guest:The idea of two people not even taking a vote, putting themselves in charge, and then deciding who's funny aggravated.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, because it doesn't leave any room for growth, which I think would.
Guest:Unless you're their friend.
Guest:Well, Lebetkin is out front picketing.
Guest:Steve Lebetkin.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Mitzi looks out the window.
Guest:And that night he's on in La Jolla.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because she had opened that one.
Guest:She feels a little offended.
Guest:So she said, fuck him and cancels him out of La Jolla.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, people back in those times felt she was it.
Guest:right you know he she had his wife and i'm out of comedy now i'll get to the rest of this story because i don't want to talk too bad about the dead but after that uh they break into her office the other side and there's a dummy in her office says you killed steve lebetkin
Marc:But now let's just clear this up because I talked about this with Jimmy.
Marc:Steve Lebetkin come from New York.
Marc:He was Richard Lewis's good friend.
Marc:And he wasn't necessarily a great comic.
Marc:And he was trying some other things from what I understand.
Marc:But he was not always trying some other things because nothing worked.
Guest:I think it was a team at one point.
Guest:Right.
Guest:With a woman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But he was not mentally.
Guest:Well, this is what I'm getting to.
Guest:I helped clean out his apartment and found a shoebox full of letters.
Guest:Dear mom and dad, I'm taking my life.
Guest:Dear mom and dad, I'm taking my life.
Guest:He finally found what he thought was a reason.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And an honorable thing to do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know.
Guest:So in the name of the strike and in the name.
Guest:So they brought the building.
Guest:Some comics just don't think straight at all.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I mean, but from that, that, that moment between the strike in that, that put a darkness on the place.
Guest:Oh, it was all over the news.
Guest:It was, you know, to the locals that listen to the news, it seems like it's getting pretty ugly.
Guest:Somebody was hit by a car.
Guest:Somebody jumped off the roof.
Guest:And I remember, you know, comics like Carson, these guys going, yeah, it's comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So they put a dummy in her office?
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:With a sign around its neck that said, you killed Steve Lebeck.
Guest:And from that minute on, she was never the same.
Guest:But it was just a different time.
Marc:Yeah, and then it became again a different time.
Marc:So let's clear up some of the stuff there, because I know that you wanted to clear up some of the Schubert, LeBove, Kennison narrative.
Marc:Well, Sam comes out twice.
Guest:Second time he stays.
Guest:First time he comes out married with his brother, and they're living at the Oakwood.
Guest:Yeah, the residential apartment.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And eventually, you know, the wife can't handle it.
Guest:She has a kid, and they go back to Texas.
Guest:And in those days when he was there, he sat at my feet.
Guest:You know, he was a big muckety-muck by then at the store.
Guest:Now I'm, you know, a headliner.
Guest:And when he comes back, he hangs with me.
Guest:Like I say, come on over.
Guest:And I'd open the door.
Guest:There'd be seven guys.
Guest:I said, I said, you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and then it's a role reversal when he becomes famous.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there was always a little tension between Sam and I. Yeah.
Guest:Because Sam, the first time he came to the store, he said, I've met one of my goals.
Guest:I said, what's that?
Guest:He said, to meet you and Richard Belzer.
Guest:Hmm.
Guest:It's nice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah, until he becomes a star.
Guest:And becomes a monster.
Guest:Well, we don't talk for a long period.
Guest:He comes back the second time, still with the entourage.
Guest:They actually sleep in Westwood in the store.
Guest:At the comedy club.
Guest:Yeah, because he was sent out there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because she didn't get it at all.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And if you want to know.
Guest:Did anybody else?
Guest:no no you know they'd walk out and he go i wipe my ass with the names of your sacred dead well that didn't help it yeah and i remember the first time i saw him he came off stage and i grabbed his arm and i said uh you have no fear yeah he said i used to have to heal them this is easier oh man yeah because he was a preacher and he explained it to me it's very much like the comedy circuit yeah you know if you do well they have your back yeah exactly and if not he'd steal the money right okay
Guest:So, yeah, he could pick locks like nobody's business.
Guest:He said, I'd get the money out of the churches.
Guest:I didn't want to pay.
Guest:So now here's how he becomes a regular at the store.
Guest:I woke up one night.
Guest:Sadly, Argus was in the throes of alcoholism.
Guest:And they're having a little tussle.
Guest:And he's dating Mitzi at the time.
Guest:And they're having a little tussle by her car.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And maybe he's even choking her.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And Sam goes, you just going to stand there?
Guest:I go, I'm already a regular.
Guest:So he went over, threw Argus off.
Guest:Next night, it's midnight every night after that.
Guest:And eventually he finds his way.
Marc:That's how he made his break.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And eventually he finds his way.
Guest:Carl, I didn't even know Carl did comedy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He went on one night and I go, fuck, I didn't know you did comedy.
Guest:He was great too.
Guest:Well, all he did was hang out with Sam.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, it was like they had like a brother thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But Carl.
Guest:Carl was like a follower.
Guest:I can't explain it.
Guest:Whatever Sam said, he did.
Guest:Sam said, kill him, he killed you.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:That's what I walked into.
Marc:I mean, without questioning.
Marc:Yeah, that was the weird sacred bond.
Guest:Yeah, so I...
Guest:we get into an argument i work a club in uh somewhere in tex amarillo and i didn't even know it snowed there yeah and the owner and i had a little problem uh you know i had no heat for three days it's rented furniture i think ron shock was one of the comics in there and eventually i broke his table and put it in the fireplace he came over and he goes
Guest:what's wrong with the heat he goes where's my table i go listen we're comics not prisoners yeah and uh so he didn't like me and he recorded everybody and when i saw that i said i'm not going on stage this is friday he had a room full of tape recorders and he said well i tape everybody like well that's our act it's against the law what do you do with it well i give it out to my friends yeah that's against the law yeah
Guest:I said, I'm not doing it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Until they're off.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So they introduced me and I just sit on the stage and the audience doesn't know what you do.
Guest:I just sit there drinking my drink.
Guest:It seemed like 15 minutes, but I'm sure it was only four.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And somebody yelled, they're off.
Guest:And I went, good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
Guest:Then the last night he said, the mayor's here.
Guest:Don't do that heckling shit you do.
Guest:So I take the stage and I go, uh.
Guest:Somebody step in mayor.
Guest:I smell mayor, mayor, mayor, mayor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For most of the act.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I go in the office.
Guest:He said, I'll never fucking have you back here.
Guest:Knock at the door.
Guest:It's the mayor.
Guest:Would you come to my barbecue tomorrow?
Guest:I shut the door and the guy goes, hey, would you take me?
Guest:I go, fuck you.
Guest:I said, who's here next?
Guest:He said, Kinison and then Mooney.
Guest:I go, please treat them the way you treated me.
Guest:Well, Kennison gets fired after three days.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And this is the call I get.
Guest:I'm up at the store.
Guest:Come on up here.
Guest:You bad mouth me.
Guest:I'll kick your ass.
Guest:I go, stay right there.
Guest:I was not afraid of Sam.
Guest:He never attacked me, ever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because he once told Malika, he is scary.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Alan, you can beat him, but don't fall asleep in the head.
Guest:Sam was afraid of him.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And he also had a thing spiritually with the Jews.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I thought we knew shit.
Guest:Like when Kevin killed himself.
Guest:Seriously, when Kevin killed himself, he flew me into Oklahoma.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he said, Alan, he was murdered.
Guest:We all think he was murdered.
Guest:We want to know what you think.
Guest:So I went in the mother's bedroom, and I'm sitting there, and I look up, and there's still a little piece of hair and stuff hanging from the ceiling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I just sit in there five minutes like I'm working the Jew mojo.
Guest:And then I open the door.
Guest:He comes in.
Guest:He goes, well, what happened, Alan?
Guest:I go, well, it's really easy, Sam.
Guest:Mother's Day, Mother's Gun, Mother's Room.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's not murder.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Alan says he wasn't murdered.
Guest:Come on.
Guest:I wish I was making this shit up.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Then at the funeral, he says to me, listen, all these guys are fake.
Guest:They're going to speak.
Guest:But this one guy, you should listen to him.
Guest:So that one guy is in the middle of the speech.
Guest:And he looks at me and Mitchell and goes, now, I know we have some strangers here.
Guest:If you would just take my hand and cross the bridge.
Guest:Mitchell goes, why is he looking at us?
Guest:I go, a stranger in Oklahoma means Jew.
Wow.
Marc:So it was a preacher, some old preacher guy.
Guest:Yeah, and he's good, but he does it like five times, and Sam now knows he's as phony as the next guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So he comes over and he apologizes to me.
Guest:I said, it's no big deal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then they owned a church, and I just remember- The family?
Guest:Yeah, the mother.
Guest:And she remarried a guy that I think-
Guest:preached to when they had it.
Guest:I just remember the mother one day saying, when they were making the food afterwards, get the pickaninnies in here.
Guest:And Sam saw my face.
Guest:He goes, Mom, don't do that in front of Alan.
Guest:Whatever you do, don't do that in front of Alan.
Guest:I mean, we had our arguments.
Guest:Because you know how he was.
Guest:You're out.
Guest:And if you'd leave his party, like he had a house that sat on a cliff, and there's no way down except the front door.
Guest:So if you go for the front door, he plays party goalie and blocks it and knocks you on your ass.
Guest:So one night I bought some rope up, tied it to the railing around the cliff.
Guest:I lowered myself down, walked around, got in the car, and it's that little sports car with no top.
Guest:As I'm driving down, you hear throughout the canyon,
Guest:you're out you're out you're out i get home you son of a bitch you me you me you're out hangs up about two days later i i moved into a little house in beverly hills and i didn't have a refrigerator yeah and he revamped his house sent me over a refrigerator all his furniture that was his way saying uh i'm back oh my god why was it so important for us to be part of that
Guest:Well, here's what Mitzi said when I joined them.
Guest:Alan's not a follower.
Guest:He's doing it for the money.
Guest:And she was dead on right.
Guest:Because I left on my own being old money in around 1990.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I just couldn't take it anymore.
Guest:Because here's what happened.
Guest:I bump into him and he invites me up to this house he had just rented.
Guest:It's his first rental house.
Guest:And these two blondes are there.
Guest:The twins.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we partying.
Guest:He passes out.
Guest:Like he always does.
Guest:He never sleeps in a bed.
Guest:It's always under a table.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:On the floor.
Guest:Or on the bathroom floor.
Guest:Face down.
Guest:Face down.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He paid $5,000 a night for a suite.
Guest:That's where you'll find him.
Guest:So when he fell asleep, I didn't like the girls going through his pockets, so I sent them home.
Guest:And the next day, he called me up all pissed.
Guest:Who are you the fuck with me?
Guest:I said, they're taking advantage of you, brother.
Guest:And then he believed me, and he liked me, and we started hanging out again.
Guest:He says, listen, want to come out with me and Carl?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Just don't talk to the audience.
Guest:Just do material.
Guest:Because he couldn't...
Guest:If I talk to the audience, it upset him.
Guest:Why?
Guest:Because it created a different vibe.
Guest:It did well.
Guest:And he didn't like that.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, I mean, I did well with the just material, but that's not really what I do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I would go and then Carl and then him.
Guest:Then he said, hey, we should get somebody else.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There was Belzer.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For a couple shows.
Guest:And then there was Pauly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were at the Dunes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he didn't know what to do.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he was just cursing for no reason, and it sucked.
Guest:And I'm standing in the green room, half in the hallway and half out, and I see her storming.
Guest:I mean, storming towards the green room.
Guest:And Pauly goes, I wonder what my mother's going to think.
Guest:I go, your mother's not here tonight.
Guest:You're about to meet the cunt that owns this place.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she flies in the door and goes, you are off the show unless Alan and Mitchell take you upstairs right now and organize an act for you.
Guest:You are fucking terrible.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah, he wanted to be a comic.
Guest:Here it comes.
Guest:And eventually, I think I bought in Mitchell.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And it was just us.
Guest:And the show went, the four of us.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And we were playing town so many times.
Guest:Then it became the three of us, Sam and the piano.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:And we'd come out and do things with him.
Mm-hmm.
Guest:Then we used to all jam together and rent places and said, whoever makes it first will do the band.
Guest:So then it became the band.
Guest:And at some point, as he becomes bigger, all these rockers start joining us.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We were in a strip club.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And at the other end is Billy Idol.
Guest:Every girl's dancing to White Wedding.
Guest:Sam and I are just sitting way at the other end by ourselves.
Guest:He goes, I wish I could say we were creative.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He goes, we need a song.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Leslie West said, do wild things.
Guest:I wish I could say we decided to do it for business reasons, but it was all about pussy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then that song took off.
Guest:You know, he lucked out.
Guest:He was sleeping with Jessica Hahn as she brought down the church.
Guest:So he makes her wild thing.
Guest:He did that entire video.
Guest:Marty Koldner wanted it to be about religion.
Guest:He said, fuck no.
Guest:And he was managed by a company that had all the rockers.
Guest:So he put her in a ring and Slash is drunk and they're grabbing at her tits and they got to go cut.
Guest:Hey, I'm scared.
Guest:Leave the girl alone.
Guest:In fact, there's a shot of Slash in the trash can in the video.
Guest:That's really where he was.
Guest:He fell in the trash can.
Guest:But the video takes off, which makes it even hotter.
Guest:And it just kept snowballing.
Guest:And then we get our first arena gig.
Guest:It's in Ohio.
Yeah.
Guest:Not an easy state.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm at Sam's place and we're looking out and I notice a helicopter.
Guest:And I say, Sam, that helicopter sits right there every night.
Guest:He goes, it's L.A., brother.
Guest:You know, it's not close, but I can see it.
Guest:So we each have limos.
Guest:Maybe there's two to a limo.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:But there's about four limos and a truck because we're like a rock band now.
Guest:you're driving uh no we're gonna fly but there's all equipment and stuff yeah and from there we start driving on the buses and shit and women are following us from different states it's ridiculous so we get to the airport i'm the first one there and i get go to get out a cop grabs my door as a helicopter lands right there and uh i think it was dea malibu sheriffs in los angeles police and i and i said he said could you get out of the car there's a drug investigation he goes
Guest:well let me get out of your way because no you're part of it oh man so we all get out of the car and they line up our luggage and uh i have a bag of pot under my fat belly and they go through everybody's luggage and then they get to sam's of course his is sitting right out on top and he blames it on his brother who's still a preacher on billy who wears three peach suits and preaches he had to wind up going to a drug class
Guest:And he had to stand up and say, what did you do?
Guest:He said, I didn't do anything.
Guest:She says, you want to repeat this course?
Guest:He says, fine, I'm all coked up.
Guest:So it's a big scene, big commotion, and we don't know what's going on yet, but they're searching everything.
Guest:He gets to my suitcase and something was in here.
Guest:They go, hey, but it's not now.
Guest:And we started dogs.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:And the dog went crazy in my suitcase.
Guest:Nothing was in mine.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Mine's in under my stomach.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's how good the dog.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I literally said to him, I said, your dog's high.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I'm not afraid of cops.
Guest:Sam is terrified of being arrested.
Guest:So I decide we're going to call the publicist and make some stink, and they see we're doing it, so they want to move us to another part of the airport.
Guest:And I'm in the car with Mitchell or somebody and a cop.
Guest:I said, let me ask you a question.
Guest:If you find pot on me later on, it's the same fine, right?
Guest:He goes, yeah.
Guest:And I go, well, you don't want to look in my pants.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Oh, you comics.
Guest:Anyway, it winds up we sign autographs and leave, but we missed our flight.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So we get back to Sam's house.
Guest:He goes, boy, that helicopter all makes sense now.
Guest:Wish I had some of that pot that was great.
Guest:And I pull mine out.
Guest:He goes, oh, fuck.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:you know how do you do that yeah i keep a straight face yeah and now we go to ohio we make the play the next day and i have my gun in a leather bag some jewelry in my pot sam says would you hold my cocaine so i stick it in my leather bag and i'm about to go on we each have a cop at our door so i hand the bag to the cop i say keep an eye on this for me and do my set after the show we're all in one room sam goes hey where's my blow
Guest:I open the door and I go, officer?
Guest:And he hands me my bag and Sam goes crazy.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:I go, Sam, if he looks in there, it's an illegal search and seizure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Don't do it again.
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:So you liked fucking with him.
Guest:Well, I just did.
Guest:Actually, I wasn't even thinking.
Marc:I thought, well, who best to hold it than a cop?
Marc:But what do you think of, like, at that point?
Marc:You know, like, in my mind, that first Sam Kennison album is the best comedy album.
Marc:It's over after that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because here's what happened.
Marc:Yeah, because, like, that thing is great.
Guest:Prior.
Guest:And Jimmy Walker, Jimmy Walker at one point managed Jay Leno, Letterman, everybody.
Guest:But he had them on his payroll.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because you can't turn material fast enough once you become famous.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, it takes you 10 years to get that first album.
Guest:That's right.
Guest:15 years.
Guest:In fact, Jimmy, after I wrote him the joke, this is what's in his book, his people sent me, we'd like you to write for us.
Guest:And it was column, single column, about five rows on a page.
Guest:yeah jimmy won't say dynamite jimmy won't use the n-word jimmy won't do this so i wrote back tell me when jimmy wants to be funny yeah okay not realizing it was a job right uh and uh so after that he's the you know the party starts and i must say sam was the same guy as you know yeah before the fame yeah you know he was once out of money his mother gave him 10 grand he went to the saint james got the big suite this was friday monday he's dead broke sleeping on my floor right
Guest:So he was that before he was famous.
Guest:It just elevates now because nobody's saying no.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And he had demons is the best way to put it.
Guest:He was a tortured man.
Guest:You know, first off, he has to fight with
Guest:I don't believe in religion.
Guest:He's very, him and I have very spiritual conversations.
Guest:But I think that ultimately he believed all the way through.
Guest:He believed, yes, but not in the way to make money on it.
Guest:No, right.
Guest:Not in the way to, so he's very divided.
Guest:Plus in his world,
Guest:he's the devil because he's doing jokes like, you know, Jesus came back now, you know what you do to him.
Guest:He pretends he's nailing him to the cross.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:You know, so that was a big thing for him mentally.
Marc:Because he believed in Jesus.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So it's a big thing for him mentally.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And it is a 180, you know, from what he used to be.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And now, of course, women are, you know, you know how it goes with money and fame.
Guest:You know, he could look like a toad.
Guest:It makes no difference.
Guest:And the women come and
Guest:In fact, back in those days, if you did well, everybody, as you're walking off stage, they'd shake your hand.
Guest:There'd be joints.
Guest:There'd be cocaine.
Guest:There'd be phone numbers from the women every night.
Guest:So now that it's really big, he's hard to keep up with.
Guest:It's very, very draining.
Guest:Scary.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:It's even worse.
Guest:Now, when he used to take over the place you lived...
Guest:A lot of those threats and stuff are just him high, you know, or he was like me.
Guest:He do it.
Guest:And if you took him serious, he'd let you think he was coming to kill you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you would believe it because he did try to go after a few guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's very unpredictable.
Guest:And eventually we're doing shows where.
Guest:he's getting a hundred thousand dollars a night and the bodyguards nobody malik and nobody can get through to him one time he's laying on a bathroom floor and this is how i'd handle him yeah i'm in a tux and i lay down next to him and i don't say a word yeah finally opens his eyes and goes what the fuck do you want you're nothing i want to sleep too everybody's bugging me yeah he said really again he goes let's just nod out man i go all right i just want to say you know i'm only losing a few grand but you lose a hundred thousand tonight
Guest:shut the fuck up and i go get up and i throw him in the shower turn it on cold get coffee you know i get after a while you get tired of being the baby i was a babysitter did you hit a wall i mean at some point did you like because you you're you're no not at all not at all i don't have an addictive personality in any way i remember i'll tell you a funny story about you
Marc:please do because i don't remember uh no you wouldn't remember it was just one of these weird moments where like i was told and if we can talk candidly i was told that you know you had you if you were doing blow you had two you had the ones you did and then the ones you cut for other people no it's the opposite way what oh the reason i never had a problem is most of the time i was doing anesitol vitamin b
Guest:no you weren't doing well no it's an ugly drug i did it sometimes because nine times out of ten i'm faking it so you had a vial and it wasn't even cut i had three yeah i had the cut yeah the uncut and the nothing and the nothing i once sold argus an eighth of nothing and he called hours later saying it was the best he's ever done do i have more sure i have all you want
Guest:You know, I had to make a living.
Guest:And you never got hooked?
Guest:No, not on anything.
Guest:In fact, what happened is eventually I had cancer and stopped doing everything.
Marc:Really?
Guest:How long was that?
Guest:17 years ago.
Guest:And you're good now?
Guest:Well, they thought last year I had a mass in my kidney, which I do.
Guest:And they said it's nothing to worry about.
Guest:And I just went yesterday to see if I had, I have bilateral masses on my back.
Guest:But I was in a brutal car accident two years ago.
Guest:And thank God I haven't settled yet.
Guest:Because the doctor said, I think these are caused by trauma.
Guest:They're some kind of hemisomes.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:And he said, but I'm doing an MRI just to make sure this week.
Guest:And then I will call my attorneys and say I want every dime.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:so but like ultimately like uh after all that came to pass i mean you weren't around when he died right i am with greg allman yeah and i am appearing in fremont california yeah and greg is a fan which is a long story and everybody would rent hotel rooms and when i played this hotel
Guest:And we'd party.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Bob Moore, did you know him from Fremont?
Guest:Funny, funny guy that booked comics.
Guest:And he was booking Fremont.
Guest:So I'm in this hotel, and I was ready to go on stage.
Guest:He goes, got to tell you, Sam just died.
Guest:I go, what?
Mm-hmm.
Guest:What did he OD from?
Guest:He said, car accident.
Guest:I go, thank God.
Guest:Believe it or not, I said, thank God.
Guest:Because everybody would have said it was drugs.
Guest:And it was not his fault.
Guest:And then he goes on stage and says to the audience, hey, he just lost his best friend.
Guest:And I took the stage.
Guest:I go, Bob, great way to bring me up.
Guest:Dig my way out of this.
Guest:But here's the cool part.
Guest:uh greg oman was a heroin addict and this is what i learned from him one night i get the message come to his room and there's a bunch of people in there and he's at his desk with his head down like he's out of it completely and one of his minions gets everybody out it's just him and me and he just raises his head and goes
Guest:want to talk brother i lost my brother i said yeah and we talked for about 45 minutes uh and about losing somebody close and then i open the door and i look back and he puts his head back down like he's up because he just didn't want to be bothered with uh with people yeah and but you talked about the grief
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, but in terms of how your career ended up, I mean, you ended up like locking in with Roseanne and we worked there a long time.
Guest:No, actually, actually what happens is Robert Wall has six episodes of a show sold, but he has five writers and- Arliss?
Guest:Yeah, and five writers could not crack it.
Guest:So I said, let me take a try.
Guest:It can't be any worse than them.
Guest:And if you know Robert, he's very egotistical.
Guest:He goes, yeah, you can.
Guest:He's a good guy though.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I've had a video.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So I wound up, it was the pilot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I wrote it.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:What became the pilot.
Guest:Of Arvis.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I started writing for him.
Guest:And at the same time, Tom Arnold, who I didn't speak to Roseanne for five years because I couldn't handle him and he didn't want anybody around her.
Guest:They separate.
Guest:And long story short, she hires me.
Guest:So I'm doing two shows at the same time and I wind up exec producer of both of them.
Guest:really yeah at the beginning or towards i come in the last four years wow so that's good well i'm now handling everything anything roseanne does yeah and you know jay is just got the tonight show right and i haven't talked to him last time i talked to him i was a scab and i think one time he stopped to uh fix my car yeah and said why don't you get this thing painted yeah another time i lived in his down the street from him he'd run me off the road with his ferrari and he thought that was funny
Guest:That's all the contact I had with him since the strike.
Guest:So I'm in her trail and the phone rings.
Guest:He goes, yeah, I'm a little, I wonder if I could talk to Roseanne.
Guest:I go, what's this about?
Guest:And he doesn't recognize the voice.
Guest:He goes, well, you know, I just got to the night show and I need some help with the guest and, you know, she's a big star.
Guest:Do you know who you're talking to, Jay?
Yeah.
Guest:I think I do.
Guest:I guess I'm fucked, huh?
Guest:Let me call you back.
Guest:Well, the president of his network had pissed me off, Warren Littlefield, which is another story.
Guest:So I said to Roseanne, you want to go do it?
Guest:He needs some help.
Guest:Yeah, sure.
Guest:So I call him up and I go, she'll do it on one condition.
Guest:We'd like to say something about the president of your network.
Guest:oh i just got the job so that's just a trade-off so he lets me do this sketch yeah because uh he said to me if something we were doing worked me and roseanne yeah he'd eat crow yeah well it worked yeah so i took the kid from her show michael fishman dj played her son i put him in a bozo
Guest:red wig and a suit so during her interview she says i understand our president's here to say something to you and the curtain opens and underneath it says president of nbc and the guy comes out with the silver tray opens it and he starts eating crow and the curtain closes so now he calls me you know like next month hey can she stop playing again it was great one condition and i kept going after warren littlefield one time he says to me
Guest:you know who's doing those jokes?
Guest:I don't get it.
Guest:And I go, I don't get it either.
Guest:So, but the nice thing he did, my parents, I brought them to The Tonight Show.
Guest:And we're backstage, and after the show, he just walks up to me.
Guest:He's like, you ought to be proud of him.
Guest:I mean, look where he's at.
Guest:i mean even jay was impressed so it was a funny thing and and after that jay and i have been fine to this day oh yeah i mean we don't hang but if i bump into him you know he's always driving his car around my neighbor to fire truck or something yeah you know i'll pull up next to him and i'll go seriously fire truck yeah
Marc:What was your problem with Littlefield?
Guest:There were two movie of the weeks about Roseanne and Tom Arnold.
Guest:One was on his network and it was going to be like Halloween or something.
Guest:And he wanted to know if she would host it.
Guest:So I go to his office and he's not there and they take me into his office and they leave me there for like an hour.
Guest:And there's a ball of M&Ms.
Guest:I eat them all.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he walks in and ignores me, yells to his secretary, starts typing, how do you spell apologize?
Guest:I go S-O-R-R-Y.
Guest:And he just stares at me.
Guest:Then he sits down and he looks at the ball and I go, shouldn't have kept me waiting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he goes like this, listen, you.
Guest:This is live.
Guest:If you go one second over, it's going to cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars into the news.
Guest:I go, well, then I would get more M&Ms.
Guest:And, you know, these guys have no sense of humor.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, none.
Guest:None of these.
Guest:Even the people that produce comedy shows.
Guest:No sense of humor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I said, so I don't know if it's a good thing to do.
Guest:We're on another network.
Guest:And he goes, well, we're going to beat your network.
Guest:I'm telling you.
Guest:You're going to beat the one on ABC or I'll eat crow.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:All right.
Guest:So that was it.
Guest:All right.
Guest:you know yeah because i didn't like the way i was treated and these people are not used to um i guess rebel thinkers like one time i threatened the president of william morris back then because he said something to me about roseanne it's a whole nother story and i said you have five minutes to fire that fucking agent or she goes at icm and she calls me did you threaten the president of william morris oh is that what he is
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, so they're not used to being confronted on any level.
Marc:And ultimately in the big picture, eventually it didn't like because sometimes they can they can make you pay.
Guest:Well, they did.
Guest:Like after the Roseanne show ended.
Guest:I remember I sold a pilot to Nickelodeon.
Guest:I have a partner also named Alan.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And as we get up, the vice president of the network says, which one's the Allen from Roseanne?
Guest:And we get outside, and the other Allen's manager goes, hey, they recognize you.
Guest:And I say to my new agent, not good.
Guest:So I go over to his office later in the day.
Guest:He goes, Nickelodeon called.
Guest:I go, am I out?
Guest:He goes, nope, they love your writing.
Guest:They just want to know if they're going to have a problem with you.
Guest:I go, what'd you say?
Guest:I said, Alan's a good soldier.
Guest:I don't know what you're talking about.
Guest:He did his job and he did it well.
Guest:Maybe that's what the job required.
Guest:Somebody had to be the bad guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Nickelodeon and I had no, I've had no problem working anywhere, but it took about five years for that to go away.
Guest:And, uh, uh,
Guest:And by then, you know, I had the credits and everything to back it up.
Guest:So they were willing to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But back then, you know, I'm a comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Somebody handed me a TV show.
Guest:I didn't know I had to do the editing, put in the laugh track.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I learned everything.
Guest:Nobody's teaching me anything.
Guest:They hate my guts.
Guest:I guess what's given the job.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Tell you the truth.
Guest:I was fighting cancer.
Guest:I just got out of the surgery.
Guest:And she went to a showrunner every year.
Guest:So the guy who is currently running it, she got rid of it.
Guest:So this is the call I get from one of Carsey Warner's people.
Guest:Ellen, we'd like you to run the show.
Guest:And I do one of these.
Guest:I think I'm dying.
Guest:You know that, don't you?
Guest:And I'm fine.
Guest:They've already moved the thyroid.
Guest:I'm cancer-free.
Guest:But I'm not supposed to work.
Guest:So my father's staying with me.
Guest:I'm not allowed to drive or anything.
Guest:So I go over there, and I take a briefcase.
Guest:He said, what's that for you?
Guest:I want to look important.
Guest:And I go into the meeting and they tell me what they're willing to pay me and I walk out.
Guest:I tell my father, he goes, Alan, I never made that in a year.
Guest:Turn around.
Guest:I'm begging you to turn around.
Guest:I go, fuck them.
Guest:And they stopped me at the gate and I went back in.
Guest:We did that two or three more times before they met my price.
Guest:But in the meeting, I said, let's not kid ourselves.
Guest:How many people said no?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because there's four executives above me.
Guest:He goes, all of them.
Guest:Like, well, I feel special.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was the quietest.
Guest:That guy used to come down to the set and said, this is the quietest this show's ever been.
Guest:When I took over, Roseanne pulled me aside and said, I will never walk on you.
Guest:I'll argue with you but I'll never walk on you and like the second show I was in a panic and she realized I couldn't find her and that's when she said that to me and she kept to her word and we were the quietest show because by then Brett Butler was in a tree throwing coke cans at the producers and showing her
Guest:fake boobs to the kid on her show playing her son right and next door is sybil who demands to sing on every episode and what i used to say is uh when the carsey warner representative come to the set because none of them no exec was allowed on our set he'd come on and i go she's singing today
Guest:He goes, how would you know that?
Guest:And I go, because there's no crows on top of that building.
Guest:And then there was one other person that was giving them trouble.
Guest:So we had a very quiet time, Rosanna and I. And we're like brother and sister.
Guest:Listen, that woman's a genius.
Guest:A lot of what her reputation is is other people's nonsense.
Guest:You know, when you have a vision and people go, well, I think it should be this way.
Guest:And you go, no, it's this way.
Guest:You're a bitch.
Guest:You're hard to work with.
Guest:You're a tough guy.
Guest:You're a son of a bitch.
Guest:And it's all about a vision.
Guest:And when people think they know more than you, it's very frustrating.
Guest:And as a comic, I didn't know the rules of diplomacy.
Guest:So I was like, you know, to executives, like, get the fuck out of here.
Guest:Like, when I took over the show, I didn't know the network gave you notes.
Guest:And it was a new girl.
Guest:And I just went, uh-huh, thank you.
Guest:And I didn't say anything because Roseanne would throw them out.
Guest:I didn't know what to do.
Guest:And this is Monday.
Guest:By Thursday, if there were 10 notes, nine of them were addressed.
Guest:So I call up and Roseanne says, thank you.
Guest:What?
Guest:I heard she's, what?
Guest:She said, thank you.
Guest:And after about six times of that, she said, I want you to change this.
Guest:Like, we can't win all the time.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I had a rapport with her.
Guest:And I said, why don't you come to the show?
Guest:Oh, no.
Guest:Nobody from this network's ever been on that show since the first year.
Guest:I said, don't worry about it.
Guest:And she sat there, and this is how good Roseanne is.
Guest:The show ends, and it's like she sniffs.
Guest:She goes, is that an executive over there, you son of a bitch?
Guest:I go, just walk by and say thank you, and I'll explain later.
Guest:And she said, thank you.
Guest:I said, the other showrunners would tell him, you're a difficult bitch.
Guest:Instead of addressing the notes and taking it seriously, they've been blaming you.
Guest:I let them know it's not you.
Guest:So I slowly learned how to be clever, but I was not diplomatic, let's say that.
Guest:In fact, a lot of the writers used to call me Luca Brazzi because I had a certain walk when I was angry.
Guest:It means you were going.
Guest:And then when I took over the show, they resented it because clearly...
Guest:They know I'm flying by the seat of my pants.
Guest:And what are you doing now?
Guest:I'm working.
Guest:Possibly I'm bringing Roseanne back to television.
Guest:I also have a movie coming out with Ralphie Mae starring.
Guest:It goes into pre-production in February.
Guest:And I have a project over at TV1 and one over at Fox.
Guest:So we'll see what happens.
Guest:it's amazing yeah what amazing is is that you know I'm from the streets yeah I'm dyslexic and I can't spell yeah so when I take over the Roseanne show there's 26 writers yeah schooled writers about five comedians but it's schooled college writers right and to them I'm the next Tom Arnold uh-huh you know
Guest:I don't even know how to work a computer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I use the keys and that's where I put my, uh, those note.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:In my keys.
Guest:So my secretary come in and go, I don't have anything for me.
Guest:And I take them out of the keys to me.
Guest:It was working the computer.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And, uh, uh, but I had fantastic ideas.
Guest:I used to, as a kid have to watch TV, uh, without any sound because I had to go to bed and I'd watch the fugitive and I had to figure out what the hell's going on.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I'm great with story.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, it's a great story because despite the fact that you never got strung out or fucked up, the cult of personality and the whole tone of what comedy was and what you lived through, it could certainly crush you.
Guest:Well...
Guest:It depends.
Guest:You know, it depends.
Guest:Could I have been somebody faster?
Guest:Maybe in stand-up.
Guest:But I don't think anybody ever got me back then.
Guest:That was the other thing.
Guest:Any time I did a TV show, they go, well, how do we know when you're done?
Guest:I go, I say goodnight.
Guest:To me, I never wanted to be on the tonight show.
Guest:You know what I wanted to be?
Guest:What?
Guest:When I grew up, my dad was a gambler, so I was left in the showrooms of Vegas a lot.
Guest:I've seen everybody.
Guest:Anthony Newley, Sinatra, Sammy Davis, when they were somebodies.
Guest:Big, you know?
Guest:When Vegas was Vegas.
Guest:And I'd go into the lounges, and all I wanted to be in life was a lounge comedian in Vegas.
Guest:Like Shecky Green?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's all I ever wanted to be.
Guest:I just wanted to sit in a room every night and go home and just be in Vegas.
Guest:I don't care about the rest of the world.
Guest:But Vegas changed.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So there was no way to do that.
Guest:And I got this opportunity to write and I ran with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I finally learned how to work the computer.
Guest:And over time, all of a sudden, I'm a writer.
Guest:Thanks, Alan.
Guest:Thanks for having me on.
Guest:Thanks, Alan.
Guest:And I'm really excited for you, truthfully.
Guest:I appreciate that.
Guest:I've watched your career over the years.
Guest:And from when we used to sit in the house, I would have never thought, you know, because I thought you were lost.
Guest:But you came back strong, brother.
Guest:I appreciate that, Alan.
Guest:I think that's a great thing.
Guest:Thanks for talking to me, man.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:All right, folks, that was a journey into the darkness.
Marc:That is the Comedy Store.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:Thank you, Alan, for doing that, for filling in the gaps.
Marc:You go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:If you like the show and you're just new to it, you can get the free app, upgrade to the premium app, and stream all 400 and many episodes.
Marc:Sometimes the great leveler is waiting for your car.
Marc:Boomer lives!