Episode 472 - Laurie Kilmartin
Guest:Lock the gates!
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Really?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Are we doing this?
Guest:Wait for it.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Guest:What's wrong with me?
Guest:It's time for WTF!
Guest:What the fuck?
Guest:With Marc Maron.
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what-the-fuckers?
Marc:What-the-fuck buddies?
Marc:What-the-fuckineers?
Marc:What-the-fuckadelics?
Marc:What-the-fuckstables?
Marc:What-the-fucka-berry-fins?
Marc:What-the-fucka-suganas?
Marc:For the upteenth time at the beginning of his own show.
Marc:Welcome.
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:This is the podcast you're listening to.
Marc:I appreciate you choosing the WTF podcast for your listening pleasure.
Marc:I'm happy to be in your head.
Marc:I appreciate you sticking me in your ears.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Today on the show, a comedian.
Marc:Is that proper?
Marc:Can you still make that distinction?
Marc:Is saying a female comedian is a comedian like calling a flight attendant a stewardess or is comedian still okay?
Marc:Is it OK?
Marc:How about just comedian?
Marc:I think that's the appropriate way to do it now.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Someone has to update me.
Marc:I'm not in the not on the email loop.
Marc:Why did I just turn into Andy Kinler for a minute?
Marc:Comedian Lori Kilmartin, who I've known for a long time, is on the show.
Marc:We were together in San Francisco is where I met her, where she started.
Marc:And she's moved on to she's gone to New York and she's in L.A.
Marc:She writes for the Conan O'Brien show.
Marc:She's a great comedian.
Marc:Very funny woman.
Marc:Happy to talk to her.
Marc:Happy to talk to her.
Marc:What's going on?
Marc:Thank you so much.
Marc:Those of you who came out to the Steve Allen Theater to the trip in the house at the Steve Allen Theater on Tuesday night, the 18th.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:It was a big deal for me.
Marc:I know it shouldn't be a big deal.
Marc:I'm a comedian.
Marc:I'm a professional comedian.
Marc:Do you people know how it works for us?
Marc:Do you know what it takes to just generate material?
Marc:I don't know how you think it happens, but for me, I have to book myself some dates at a small theater, ask some of you to come if you'd like and sit there and talk about things that are on my mind and things that I think will be funny and then begin the process.
Marc:Continue the conversation and
Marc:And we sold the place out.
Marc:There was about 120 of you there.
Marc:And it was very nice.
Marc:I had my friend Nate Bargetsy come and do 15 minutes before me.
Marc:He killed.
Marc:Hilarious.
Marc:He did a couple of new tags.
Marc:And then I got up there and rambled through about an hour and 10 minutes.
Marc:I'd say we got about 45 to 50 that are good.
Marc:Good foundations for the work.
Marc:And it was nice.
Marc:I enjoy performing for you people.
Marc:And by you people, I mean the people that enjoy coming to see me, the people that listen to me.
Marc:I did some Q&A.
Marc:Some things were learned about me.
Marc:Some things were learned about my new relationship.
Marc:And some questions were asked that made me uncomfortable, but I tried to deal with them, and I appreciate you coming out.
Marc:That, to me, is a good show.
Marc:Let's watch Mark kind of ramble through some stuff that's half-baked but pretty funny.
Marc:And then maybe he'll hit a couple of solid notes with some really killer jokes that are definite keepers.
Marc:And then he'll just hit a wall and then turn it on us.
Marc:What do you guys want to know?
Marc:How is that not a great show?
Marc:Why don't I tour with that show?
Marc:Just call it Mark Maron, the Please Talk to Me Tour.
Marc:Does anyone have a question show?
Marc:I think that would be fine.
Marc:I'd be fine with that.
Marc:So look, I've got two more of those shows scheduled.
Marc:I might schedule some more shows, but I believe there are, I think they're March 4th and March 11th.
Marc:Tuesday nights at the Trippany House at the Steve Allen Theater in Los Feliz.
Marc:Go to trippanyhouse.org for tickets.
Marc:And please come down.
Marc:I feel confident now.
Marc:I don't know if you really understand just how weirdly paralyzing it is to be a comedian.
Marc:I am a stand-up by trade.
Marc:I know a lot of you know me as a podcaster or you know me as a...
Marc:A talker.
Marc:Some of you call it navel-gazing.
Marc:Some of you call it introspection and honesty.
Marc:Some of you call it whining.
Marc:Whatever you call it.
Marc:I do stand-up comedy.
Marc:I enjoy it.
Marc:I've been doing it half my life.
Marc:But when you're down, when you need to do new material and you know you need to do it, some people, I guess, write their jokes, but I've got to just hammer it out.
Marc:And I was nervous.
Marc:I was a little stressed out between producing and being in the television show and writing and being submerged in that process.
Marc:I'd lost touch.
Marc:with the hour-long set.
Marc:I'd forgotten that I've spent many hours of my life up on that stand-up stage, and I felt like I do have this wave, this moment where I'm like, do I even know how to do this?
Marc:Does it go away, or is it like riding a bike?
Marc:It's definitely not riding a bike.
Marc:It's kind of like riding a bike if you're not exactly sure whether the pedal will stay on.
Marc:But you can keep going.
Marc:And then like, you know, those bikes where you're riding it and it's like, oh, the pedal's fucked up or the chain comes off and you kind of spin it for a while and then it catches back on again.
Marc:A little of that.
Marc:But we had a good time.
Marc:And again, I appreciate you coming up.
Marc:Now, let's get on to the important stuff.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I don't know what Shia LaBeouf is doing.
Marc:Is he still doing it?
Marc:Is that still happening?
Marc:Is that over?
Marc:This is the weird thing about me.
Marc:As you know, I do tend to talk about myself and what's happening.
Marc:with my own emotional ups and downs, with the immediacy of my small world, which I think is tremendously important to the degree that I live in it.
Marc:So that's what I mine, because that seems the most real to me.
Marc:And then I'm like, well, maybe I should lock in.
Marc:Maybe I should lock in and engage in culture.
Marc:And then I didn't even get the full story.
Marc:Because I don't give a fuck.
Marc:Let's talk about something important like LaFonda Stitches that I can't get out of her fucking face.
Marc:Let's talk about that.
Marc:That's more important than whatever Shia LaBeouf did for whatever dumb reason he did it.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Appropriating a perfectly reasonable context of performance art to serve his own silly purposes, the condescending actor man.
Marc:You can't just do that, man.
Marc:You can't just say, like, I'm going to do this and it's art.
Marc:You can't.
Marc:You can't.
Marc:Because there are people that dedicate their life to that, even if it's ridiculous, even if you don't understand it, even if it's something you feel is silly, they need to be out there because they're the astronauts.
Marc:You may not appreciate the exploration they're doing, but let those people who want to commit their life to ridiculousness in the name of poetry, do not mock them.
Marc:by being a stupid, entitled actor, basically doing a hoax of an art piece to somehow cover for the fact that he is morally bankrupt, he shouldn't be allowed to do that.
Marc:I'm not saying his freedom should be taken away, but it shouldn't be supported or reported on because that's all he wants.
Marc:Is it over, though?
Marc:It's over, right?
Marc:We don't know.
Marc:See, I don't even know the whole story.
Marc:I don't even know what he did.
Marc:I got it secondhand.
Marc:And that's how I decided to reenter the pop culture world.
Marc:I think I'm going back under.
Marc:I'm going back into me.
Marc:All right?
Marc:What else do I want to tell you?
Marc:Yeah, so LaFonda, I know that a couple weeks ago you knew that I brought her to the vet and she had a cone on her head and it was very traumatic for me.
Marc:But now, here's the thing, and I've talked about it before, maybe, that the doctor, the veterinarian, who I go to occasionally with my cats, doesn't realize that my cats are out of their mind or he should realize it by now.
Marc:I don't take them in very often.
Marc:He put stitches in LaFonda's lip that did not dissolve.
Marc:They had to be taken out.
Marc:So he thought that, well, this would be a way to...
Marc:Get another few bucks, you bring the cat back in, and we could take him out.
Marc:But my cat is not, that's not where it's at with this cat.
Marc:I can't get that cat into a cage very easily.
Marc:So I'm like, I'm going to take these stitches out.
Marc:It is not happening.
Marc:The stitches were supposed to come out Friday, and I've been terrified to deal with it.
Marc:I had to get a cuticle cutter.
Marc:I have a nail clipper.
Marc:I put them by the bed.
Marc:Every time I get within three inches of LaFonda's face with one of these implements, she freaks the fuck out and then doesn't trust me for hours.
Marc:The stealth timing that is necessary.
Marc:Why don't I have docile cats?
Marc:Because I don't have a docile heart.
Marc:I don't have a docile mind.
Marc:My felines are reflections of my own sensibility.
Marc:And I apologize to them for that frequently.
Marc:But my cats are nervous.
Marc:They're anxious.
Marc:I believe that occasionally they're filled with dread and a certain amount of anger.
Marc:That's what I believe my cats to be.
Marc:So now LaFonda, I got one stitch out because I took a nail clipper to it and then she jumped and it ripped out.
Marc:I don't even know where it is, but it's gone.
Marc:And there's still one more stitch in there.
Marc:And the biggest anxiety in my life right now is not performing.
Marc:It's not my new relationship.
Marc:What it is, it is, how am I going to get that fucking stitch out of LaFonda's face?
Marc:Why am I so afraid of this cat that I live with?
Marc:Because she has claws that are sharp and she's awful.
Marc:That's all I'm going to say.
Marc:All right, let's talk to Lori Kilmartin.
Marc:Can you hear me?
Guest:I can hear you.
Marc:Can you hear you?
Guest:I can hear me.
Marc:How's that sound to you?
Guest:Horrible.
Guest:Does it?
Guest:Just because it's my voice.
Guest:It's not... You're fine, yeah.
Guest:It's not a critique of your audio equipment or the software you're using.
Marc:It's you already being insecure about the sound of your own voice.
Marc:Is that it?
Guest:Just annoyed?
Guest:I just don't want to know what it sounds like.
Guest:It's like I'd rather that be in a closet that I didn't have to open.
Marc:Do you feel that way about your stand-up when you watch it on TV?
Guest:I don't watch it on TV.
Guest:Sometimes I'll watch when I'm trying to put together an edited set, like a heckler set or something like that.
Marc:What's a heckler set mean?
Guest:If somebody heckles me or there's some audience interaction and it's fun and I can kind of string it together, there's times where...
Guest:You have an interaction with this side of the room and this side of the room and you're able to marry them and put it all together and they bing and bop together.
Guest:Then that's really fun to put up online, I think.
Marc:So you record your sets when you do them in clubs usually?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:A lot of like always.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, there's a major backlog and it's horrendous to watch them.
Guest:But but I'll be like, oh, that's the one where, you know.
Marc:I can't watch.
Marc:I make record of a lot of things, but I wish I listened to them more.
Marc:The idea is that I'll write.
Marc:I came up with something good.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I'm going to use that again.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:No, I didn't get to it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's a lot of those.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have a lot of sets on my iPhone that I should listen to because I'll finally figure out a way to say a joke that was perfect.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Part of me is like, well, if you don't remember, then I guess it wasn't that perfect.
Guest:You know, like, I'll just do whatever I can to harm myself.
Marc:Rationalize it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, I do that all the time.
Marc:So it must have been that moment.
Marc:I don't think I'll ever be able to recapture that moment.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So I'm trying to think when the first time we met was.
Marc:Do you know?
Marc:It was in San Francisco?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:I remember meeting you.
Guest:I remember talking to you at the zoo.
Marc:Did not like me.
Marc:You did not like me.
Marc:Let's be honest.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Well, I...
Marc:Maybe you're just guarded.
Marc:I think I'm more guarded.
Marc:You were a female comedian in a world of wolves and drug addicts and gypsies.
Guest:You were clearly one of those guys that roamed the audience looking for women after the show.
Guest:Was I?
Guest:A little bit.
Marc:Yeah, probably.
Guest:You had more of that vibe than the Jim Earl.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, okay.
Marc:So those are my two options.
Marc:Than the safe vibe.
Marc:Yes, yeah.
Guest:Did not feel safe around you.
Guest:That's exactly it.
Guest:That doesn't mean I didn't dislike you.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That you did dislike me.
Marc:It doesn't mean you did dislike me.
Marc:You were wary.
Guest:I didn't feel comfortable around you.
Marc:You were wary.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you were pretty tough, I think, weren't you?
Marc:You seemed like a...
Guest:think of myself as tough.
Marc:You don't?
Guest:No, I don't.
Marc:Well, how long have you been doing comedy?
Guest:Since 87.
Marc:So it's like as long as me almost.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I started in San Francisco.
Marc:It has been a long time.
Guest:You know, I have been panicking about my age and my longevity and then
Marc:Do you talk about, do you say how old you are?
Guest:I'm 48, so I just did.
Marc:I'm 50, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I have a bit on stage that I'm trying to work out a little bit.
Guest:Because I don't want to be one of those people that's cagey.
Guest:Because then you start, it just seems weird.
Marc:You mean you want to act your age?
Marc:You want to own it?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And not be embarrassed.
Guest:It's not a thing to be embarrassed.
Marc:I don't think so.
Guest:It's like I'm still alive and I haven't quit comedy yet.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's kind of, I always like it when other people are like that.
Guest:So maybe it's okay that I'm like that too.
Marc:No, I think, I think it's the right way to go.
Marc:I think it's good for, uh, for just being honest with yourself and also for people in the audience.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, there, there are women who are 48 and in a similar position as you in life emotionally and otherwise they, they need to be spoken for.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you feel that responsibility?
Marc:I don't.
Guest:They're on their own.
Guest:Those bitches need to control themselves.
Guest:No, I guess I want to talk about my own life, honestly.
Guest:That's my responsibility.
Guest:But I don't necessarily think every 48-year-old woman's like, oh, me too.
Marc:They're probably not, but there's some are.
Marc:But you want to be honest about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So where did you come from?
Marc:um uh let's see i was born and raised or mostly raised in walnut creek california which you know is like a suburb yeah i know i know by yeah there used to be a punchline out there yeah i don't understand i don't understand the bay area at all i lived there for two years i don't i don't understand the social economics of it i don't know who runs things i would say walnut creek's like the pasadena of the bay area yeah so you come from a good family
Guest:Yeah, fine.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I would never describe them as good, but they're not bad.
Guest:No one made horrible mistakes.
Guest:My parents are still together.
Guest:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you weren't raised in a box?
Guest:No, just a tract home, classic, where every third house was just like yours, but backwards.
Marc:And what'd your dad do?
Guest:He was an engineer, a civil engineer, and he traveled a lot.
Guest:He worked overseas a great deal of my childhood.
Marc:What was his specialty?
Marc:Bridges?
Guest:Yeah, he did bridges and dams.
Guest:Really?
Guest:He helped build the Karaj Dam in Tehran.
Guest:And he worked in Nicaragua and the Philippines and Indonesia and Saudi Arabia.
Guest:A lot of like, you know, scary, shitty countries.
Marc:But he went over there?
Marc:He was the guy who said like, yeah, you just got to build that.
Marc:You got to go deeper.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I guess so.
Guest:I mean, as soon as he starts talking about what he does, I tune out.
Guest:It's so boring to me.
Guest:I took him on the road with me.
Guest:We went and did a couple of Tribble runs together.
Marc:Let's explain that because I think that people have made reference to Tribble runs, but I don't think I've explained it.
Marc:Tribble runs are shit gigs.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Through which states?
Guest:They're learning gigs.
Marc:Oh, that's nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think they're B or C rooms.
Marc:Usually they're not comedy clubs.
Guest:I wouldn't even say they're rooms.
Guest:It's always Misty's Lounge at a Holiday Inn.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Yeah, something like that.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:It's a contract gig.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Marc:Yeah, Barry Katz used to run those in New England.
Marc:So what were the states involved in those?
Guest:Idaho, Montana, Washington, Oregon.
Guest:Once I did something in South Dakota for him, but he mostly stayed in those four states and a little bit in Northern California, like Eureka.
Marc:So that was a reasonable journey for someone who was up north in Northern California.
Marc:Correct, yeah.
Marc:Because there's runs in the Midwest that aren't his.
Marc:I forget that guy's name.
Marc:And there's runs in New England.
Marc:Yoder.
Marc:Yoder gigs.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then there are the ones up in the New England area.
Marc:Every comedy region used to have those gigs.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Are there still Tribble Runs?
Guest:Yeah, there are still Tribble Runs.
Guest:I kind of want to do one one day again.
Marc:For nostalgia reasons?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:See how far you've come?
Guest:And realize I haven't come far at all.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:That might be the documentary angle.
Marc:You should get a little crew and do a Tribble Run.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Why don't you do that?
Guest:Yeah, I could do that.
Guest:I'm dating a guy who does documentaries, so that would be...
Marc:You're in.
Marc:You're going to have to pitch him on it.
Marc:And you're going to have to have him stay relatively objective.
Guest:Is that possible?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:He already talked about doing a documentary on me.
Guest:Because my dad has cancer.
Guest:So I'm talking about it on stage.
Guest:And he's like, I want to show your dad.
Guest:I want to film him watching you tell jokes about his cancer.
Guest:And I'm like...
Guest:How do you breach that?
Guest:You don't want to do that.
Marc:Does he know you're doing jokes about his cancer?
Guest:No, I think he would assume, but he might have less than two months at this point, so he's so addled with radiation and stuff.
Guest:He's out of it.
Guest:Yeah, he's not 100% there.
Guest:Well, that's sad.
Marc:How old is he?
Guest:He's 83.
Marc:That's old.
Guest:It's the age people.
Guest:This happens to people.
Marc:Yeah, you're going to die of something, I guess.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it's weird.
Guest:I just went on Facebook this morning and someone's dad had died.
Guest:It seems like that's the new thing on Facebook.
Guest:It's not baby pictures anymore.
Guest:It's that your dad or mom's dad.
Marc:Well, I guess our generation, whoever you're going to be friends with on Facebook, is around our age.
Marc:And I guess this is the age it happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't think about it a lot.
Marc:I guess I should start thinking about it.
Marc:My mom just sent me her will and her last will and her living will.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And she designated my brother as the plug puller, not me.
Marc:Which is probably a blessing in disguise.
Guest:Yeah, let him have that responsibility.
Guest:Let him have that.
Guest:You get to be the free artist of the family and he gets to be.
Guest:Does he have a regular job?
Marc:He does.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He does.
Marc:Yeah, I guess.
Marc:Yeah, I was a little taken aback, but I don't want to make it about me.
Marc:So you took your dad on a triple run when you were starting out?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So were you headlining or featuring or what?
Guest:I think I was featuring.
Guest:So that's a half hour.
Guest:You do a half hour.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And usually when you're featuring, that's like the first time you've featured.
Marc:It's a two-man show or is it three?
Marc:It's a two-person show.
Marc:Right, that's the classic.
Guest:And the headliner does an hour.
Marc:Classic shit gig structure.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yeah, no MC.
Marc:And a lot of times you've got to drive the headliner.
Guest:Oh, every time you have to drive the headliner.
Guest:I bought a Chevy Blazer before people were buying SUVs, like in 1990, I think.
Guest:Because at the time, I'm like, oh, people think I'm a guy on the road and I won't get raped.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And this is before that became like the classic soccer mom type of car.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:It's just protection.
Marc:Yeah, I remember.
Guest:It was your tank.
Guest:Yes, it was my tank.
Guest:Taking Dale Van Dyke many times.
Guest:Joe Klosek and I went on the road and...
Guest:Yeah, it was fun.
Guest:I kind of enjoyed it.
Guest:I liked the long drives.
Guest:When it got 10 hours between gigs, that was too much.
Guest:But when it was like four to six hours, you could just sort of daydream and drive through Montana.
Marc:It was awesome.
Marc:It's almost meditative.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:More than the gigs, I would love to drive between the gigs to do that now.
Marc:yeah i almost did that yeah and some part of me remembered like i used to do it a lot yeah you know drive cross country and i'm thought like that'd be great but then all of a sudden like you know grown up me like me at this age like i was about to drive to albuquerque and i'm like yeah fuck man that's gonna be like 12 hours 18 hours whatever it's gonna be i'm gonna have to break it up by two days like i'm just gonna fly
Marc:Why don't we start slow?
Marc:Maybe just drive to Desert Hot Springs or something, see how that goes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It always seems like a good idea when you're not doing it.
Marc:Until you're four hours in and you're all cramped up and you get out of the car and you're like, what the fuck did I do?
Marc:Right.
Marc:And you realize the interstate isn't that compelling.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's all the same.
Guest:And even the truck stops are all the same now, too.
Guest:It's not- Yeah.
Marc:There's no glory.
Marc:There's no individual truck stops owned by the Indian anymore.
Marc:There's nothing to see that it hasn't been just seen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so you're with your dad, and what was the experience like that?
Guest:I just remember that he frequently wanted to stop at dams and look at the Columbia River.
Guest:The four-hour drive took a six-hour run because he had to do his nerd tour.
Marc:to check out a dam yeah yeah but that's pretty important stuff I you know it's weird don't you ever get that feeling as comedians that when even with your father when you realize like I'm dealing with an architect and stuff and it's sort of like wow these people know how to do shit yeah they're putting things together yeah when you fly in from somewhere and you see all these buildings and cities it's like how'd that get done yeah yeah guys like your dad went over and assessed things and said this is how you can do this something burning
Guest:It smells like it.
Marc:Oh, man.
Guest:We need someone who knows how to put out fires to come here.
Marc:It's not my house, is it?
Marc:I'm going to go see if my house is burning down.
Guest:Okay.
Marc:I don't think it is.
Guest:We're safe to continue.
Marc:I'm very chipper today because I started Weight Watchers two days ago because I'm a lunatic.
Guest:But you look great.
Guest:Why would you start Weight Watchers?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Because I think I like to be a certain weight and I was doing that.
Guest:You must be just five pounds over your weight unless you have.
Marc:That's about right.
Guest:Unless you think you have body dysmorphia.
Marc:I do have body dysmorphia.
Guest:Honestly, you've been diagnosed with it or you just think you do?
Marc:I was brought up by an anorexic.
Marc:My mother's anorexic.
Marc:And so I grew up with it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I do have it a bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And no, I wasn't diagnosed with that.
Marc:I don't need to be diagnosed with that.
Marc:I mean, I know when I'm at the right weight.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And it's not the right weight for me.
Marc:Does that make sense to you?
Guest:It does make sense, but it's...
Marc:And I know that when I lose too much weight, my head gets too big.
Marc:I look peculiar, but I feel great.
Guest:Well, I can't put myself on a diet because I just get crazy about it.
Guest:I was bulimic and I was all those things that women are.
Guest:Really?
Guest:When they're teenagers and in their 20s and 30s.
Marc:So you struggled with that thing?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then I guess...
Guest:Like the last few years, which maybe I could attribute to age.
Guest:It's like, I'm so fucking sick of thinking of this and having this be part of my brain and, you know, having a counting my calorie.
Marc:Like when did that start, though, for you?
Marc:I mean, when did that eating disorder start?
Marc:Did it come on at a certain time?
Guest:Oh, I would say when I was – I can remember being 12 years old and I was pretty tall and I was a swimmer and I was weighed.
Guest:And our teacher wrote the weights of everyone in the class on the board.
Guest:And I weighed the most – I weighed more than all the other girls.
Guest:But I wasn't fat.
Guest:I was tall and pretty muscular because I was –
Guest:But anyway, he wrote our weights on the board, and I was like 5'8 and 140.
Guest:And I just remember, all I just saw was 140.
Guest:And the next biggest person was this guy named Fritz, who was about 200 pounds.
Marc:But 5'8 and 140, that's not... No, it's fine.
Guest:I would kill to be 140 now.
Marc:But you're taller than 5'8, aren't you?
Marc:I'm like 5'9 and a half or something.
Guest:But yeah, I weigh more than you.
Guest:I must weigh more than you.
Marc:I'm 5'11.
Marc:No, I don't.
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I'm real busty.
Guest:You're not busty.
Marc:No, I am not busty.
Marc:I think I'd have a real problem if I was busty.
Marc:My issues would be very different.
Marc:But I am a little crazy because after over the holidays, I'd gotten to a weight where it was clearly, it was not comfortable.
Marc:I haven't fluctuated much within seven or eight pounds in a long time.
Marc:But I'd rather be a certain weight.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:Do you weigh yourself constantly?
Marc:No.
Marc:I do not.
Marc:I hardly ever weigh myself at all.
Marc:But I know that if I'm at my healthy weight, according to the doctor from my height, my head looks strange.
Marc:I have a big head and my body's not.
Marc:I'm not going to get into it.
Guest:I don't feel like you have a big head.
Marc:I appreciate that.
Marc:That's all I'm looking for here is compliments.
Marc:I think we're done talking.
Marc:But I was doing that paleo kind of thing, and I was like, fuck this, man.
Marc:I mean, it's just gross.
Marc:I want to eat shit that I like.
Marc:So I was like, I enjoyed Weight Watchers.
Marc:One time I got up to 200, and that's heavy for me.
Marc:And I lost like 17 or 18 pounds in Weight Watchers.
Marc:And just the control of it, just doing math problems all day.
Marc:It's great.
Marc:It's like a hobby.
Marc:So I just thought I'd do it for a little while.
Marc:Now they have an app and you can look at it.
Guest:More time in your cell phone, right?
Guest:Your smartphone.
Guest:It's like more apps that help you live your life.
Guest:But your life is now just looking at your smartphone.
Marc:Yeah, I get that.
Marc:But I mean, you can also go on the computer.
Marc:But wait, so you got an eating disorder when you were like 13?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I just started getting very obsessed with food and tracking it.
Guest:And then I was bulimic, but I wasn't like... Oh, you remember I did a report on anorexia, which is how I learned in bulimia.
Guest:I learned all about it.
Marc:But how bad were you?
Marc:Could you throw up without using your finger?
Guest:No, I couldn't.
Guest:That was the problem.
Guest:I couldn't make myself throw up.
Guest:And I was like, I fucking can't even do this.
Guest:Like, I'm...
Guest:I'm a failure on every level.
Guest:And I remember going to OA meetings listening to the bulimics going, oh.
Marc:If only I could.
Guest:You know, they're crying.
Guest:I threw up six times a day.
Guest:I'm like, oh, man.
Guest:And I would eat food and chew it, but I would spit it out in baggies.
Guest:And it was completely gross.
Guest:I had baggies of chewed up food that I would have in my car.
Guest:And at the end of the day, I would throw them away.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:That's gross.
Guest:It is really gross.
Guest:I mean, I'd rather have been a vomiter, you know, but yeah.
Marc:So you got the experience of eating without eating.
Guest:Yeah, and I would do like just food that you couldn't, you know, secretly swallow.
Guest:You know, like you couldn't, like a peanut butter sandwich is always good because there's no moisture in it.
Guest:So you couldn't like get a few cows down.
Marc:Oh, so you were like so aware that you couldn't have anything go down?
Marc:Yes, yes, I'm like I swallowed.
Marc:I swallowed a little bit on that one.
Marc:But what would you eat for sustenance then?
Guest:I don't remember, just other stuff.
Guest:There's food that went down and food that didn't go down.
Marc:And you just drive around with chewed up food.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, yeah.
Guest:That sounds so bleak.
Guest:And I'm like, I don't want that to be me or my legacy.
Marc:It's not your legacy.
Marc:It isn't your legacy.
Marc:Or is it you?
Marc:Because you've reckoned with it.
Marc:It was the thing I did a long time ago.
Marc:Yeah, you've reckoned with it.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But you were plagued by it for a long time.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:In one form or another.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:In one form.
Guest:And I can't count obsession as a form as as vile and harsh to your life as the actual acting out and getting rid of food and whatever way.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's it's it's it is horrible.
Marc:And I think a lot of people have it.
Marc:I think more men have it than admit it.
Guest:It would seem like it.
Guest:It seems like guys are talking about it a lot more.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, just because... I mean, in one form or another, I think it's primarily a control thing, isn't it?
Marc:Right?
Marc:I mean, is that what you learned?
Marc:What'd you learn from moving through that?
Guest:I remember it was this just need to be violent with my mouth and just chew.
Guest:And somehow that made me feel better.
Guest:And, you know, of course, it was best if you could...
Guest:eat the whole eat it but I was trying to not gain weight so that was the best solution I can come up with with my very limited emotional skills I was like this is a great idea I've solved it you know I'm a genius I'm an anorexic genius yeah it's disgusting so I can't brag about it but you know well you weren't throwing up that's true yeah it was almost like you were doing a take over and over again in a film where you had to eat
Guest:I was like a movie star.
Marc:A movie star.
Guest:You're right.
Guest:Now that sounds a lot better than me driving around in the car with bags of chewed up food, if you don't mind.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Picture someone going, cut.
Marc:We're going to have to do it again, Lori.
Marc:Could someone give her the spit bag?
Marc:We don't want you to eat that.
Marc:I mean, who could eat that much?
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Is that better?
Guest:I like it.
Guest:Thank you.
Guest:Thanks for the upsell.
Marc:But you went to therapy for it and everything else?
Guest:Yeah, I've been to therapy for a long time.
Guest:I went through a period where I'm like, okay, I'm not getting rid of food.
Guest:If I eat it, it goes down and it stays down.
Guest:And I gained a lot of weight and it was horrible.
Guest:And then it started to subside.
Guest:At one point, I ate enough snooker bars and I didn't need them anymore.
Guest:I used to save the wrappers in some weird ritual.
Guest:I would flatten the wrappers and save them and have a collection.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So that's better than chewed up food, a collection of snicker wrappers, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But yeah, then it's slowly, it wasn't like a dramatic thing.
Guest:It just slowly started to slip away.
Guest:And then when I moved stand-up into my life, that starts to take up room in your brain that was otherwise occupied by food and your weight.
Marc:How long did it take you to talk about eating disorders in your stand-up?
Guest:I didn't want to too much because... Too specific?
Guest:At the time, there weren't a lot of female comics, and the ones that were were always talking about weight, and I didn't want to be... I just was like, I want to get away from that, and it was hard to do without being self-deprecating, and I sort of didn't want to be like that either.
Guest:So it was more of a decision not to be like other people that I'd seen than an artistic decision, I guess.
Marc:Let's talk about this hitting bottom, though, where you decided you'd eaten enough Snickers bars.
Marc:So that was a moment.
Guest:That was a moment.
Marc:Like there was a compulsive need to just keep eating.
Guest:I don't want to tie it to a Snickers bar, but there was a moment where I realized this isn't working.
Guest:Okay, I'll try this because nothing else is working.
Guest:And also I'll give this a shot and I might gain weight.
Guest:And I was terrified.
Guest:of gaining weight and I did and it was the scariest thing that's ever happened to me.
Marc:You're making me grow.
Guest:Yeah, I'm gaining weight and I can't stop eating and I'm letting myself go there and I'm not going to punish myself or hate myself and then I just, I reached a certain point where I didn't, I don't know, that part of me is like, you're really gonna let me eat everything?
Guest:I was like, yeah, and then that part of me is like, okay.
Guest:Well, I guess I don't have to have this fourth dinner.
Guest:Like they started to.
Marc:So when you actually.
Guest:The amount of food I needed started to recede when I started to kind of treat myself differently.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And when you actually felt that the thing you were most afraid of.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Guinea fat happened.
Marc:And you were able to sort of like sit in that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And pull back from it in a natural way.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, it was, it wasn't completely, you know, this really happy moment.
Guest:It was most, it was terrifying a lot of the times and I was miserable a lot of times, but there was times where I'm like, it's okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, and, and then it's again, then I, I think cause I didn't want to, I also had this thing where I think a lot of people do, I'm not going to do something until I'm thin.
Guest:And then I just was like, I'm not going to let myself be like that anymore.
Guest:So I, I want to buy clothes or buy clothes.
Guest:I took a modeling class when I was fat.
Guest:And it was, you know, I'm like, I want pretty pictures of myself and I'm just, I'll be fat in a pretty picture.
Marc:Was that a test of your new- Kind of, it was just sort of like a new way to treat myself, I think.
Guest:Instead of like, you broke these rules so you're not allowed to smile in a picture.
Guest:Or I'm just a person that had a ton of rules about myself and this was like, all right, let's try something else.
Marc:How'd the photo shoot go?
Guest:I mean, they're mortifying now.
Guest:I'm like 19 obese and trying to look hot like Linda Evangelista or something.
Guest:It's horrifying.
Guest:But it's like I remember being really excited that I was trying that, you know.
Guest:That's sweet.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you didn't destroy the pictures.
Guest:I have them.
Guest:I have them.
Marc:My mother destroyed all evidence of her as a fat person.
Marc:Really?
Marc:All of it.
Guest:That's crazy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's self-destruct.
Guest:I don't want to be reminded that that's who I was.
Marc:So you were 19 and that was where you took the turn into being healthier.
Guest:Yeah, I think so.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Very slow.
Guest:Very slow turn.
Marc:Well, I tried to do that, and I'm speaking to you as a slightly anorexic man, because I know it's ridiculous that I'm on Weight Watchers, but it feels great to do it.
Guest:To have a plan.
Marc:Yeah, because I was brought up in a certain way by the type of person I was, but I always do that.
Marc:It's like, I'm 50.
Marc:Why can't I just be okay with, I don't look bad.
Marc:And even if I put on 10, 15 pounds, it's not going to be the end of the world.
Marc:Correct.
Marc:And, but like the thought, like even when I get a little on me or if I feel that I do, like I just, I do not feel like I deserve to exist.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I know.
Guest:I still have that.
Guest:I mean, the thing is like, you're never going to get rid of that voice in your head, but you want to develop the one that has common sense.
Guest:Like it doesn't matter.
Guest:You're alive.
Guest:You don't have cancer.
Guest:You're okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, good.
Marc:Well, I'm glad you got through that.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:And no one, do you have brothers and sisters?
Guest:I have a sister.
Marc:Did she have it?
Guest:I don't, she might've had food.
Guest:I don't feel comfortable commenting on whatever food issue she might've had.
Marc:I just wonder where those things come from.
Marc:I know exactly where mine came from.
Marc:And I think it's cultural with a lot of women.
Guest:It's cultural and it's, you know, I mean, I was a swimmer, so I was in a swimsuit all the time and getting laid and all that kind of shit.
Marc:Were you like a good swimmer?
Guest:I was good-ish.
Marc:Did you have some national times?
Marc:Did you rank in regional times?
Guest:I wasn't that good.
Guest:I had dreams of being good.
Guest:I mean, I worked really hard.
Guest:I was in a crew.
Guest:I was on a team of really good swimmers, and so I was in the middle.
Marc:For school?
Guest:I swam AU, and then I swam at UCLA for a little bit.
Marc:Yeah, I was on a swim team for a couple years when I was younger.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Oh, cool.
Marc:I had a B time in breaststroke.
Guest:That's nice.
Marc:I was a breaststroker as well.
Marc:Were you?
Guest:Yes, 200 breast, 200 meter breast.
Marc:I think I maybe got it in the 50.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That was the only one I could seem to manage was the breaststroke.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would argue that's the second hardest stroke.
Guest:I think butterfly's the hardest.
Marc:Backstroke for me was impossible.
Guest:It's uncomfortable because you're staring in the sun a lot of the time.
Marc:Yeah, and it's just like I never felt like I could quite get the rhythm of it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So when did you start doing stand-up?
Marc:How old were you?
Guest:I was 22.
Marc:After college?
Guest:Yeah, I dropped out and I sort of floated around and went to fix myself.
Guest:I always thought I was going to go back to college.
Marc:What were you studying?
Guest:Drama.
Marc:Oh, okay.
Marc:So how long did you go for?
Guest:A little less than a year.
Guest:I dropped out my freshman year.
Marc:Oh, you never finished?
Guest:No.
Guest:No.
Guest:I still feel like a failure.
Guest:I would love to finish one day.
Marc:You can, right?
Guest:Yeah, but I won't.
Guest:It's not that interesting to me.
Marc:But it's good to have something hanging over you that you can beat the shit out of yourself for the rest of your life.
Marc:It really is.
Marc:Yeah, you want to have at least one of those things.
Guest:I do enjoy feeling inferior to all the Harvard grads I know.
Marc:Yeah, and also now that you've gotten food under control, you don't want to feel entirely good about yourself.
Guest:Yeah, I don't want to be a complete badass, correct?
Guest:So intellectually, I am inferior to everybody.
Marc:So you drop out of school to wrestle with weight.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And what got you into stand-up?
Marc:Because you're a great stand-up, by the way.
Marc:I like your stand-up.
Marc:I've always liked it.
Marc:You have a real voice.
Marc:You're funny.
Marc:You've got guts.
Marc:And you're one of those people where I'm like, what about Lori?
Guest:You know, that's what my career is, is other people have to go, hey, what about Lori?
Guest:Like, no one who's actually making the decisions thinks of me.
Guest:It's somebody else going, hey, remember her?
Guest:I was weird.
Guest:I just feel like I'm constantly on the side.
Marc:But when you really look at comedy as a business, most people are on the sidelines.
Guest:I know, I know, I know.
Marc:It's fucked up.
Marc:I was on the sidelines for years, except for a small number of people that knew me in the comic community.
Marc:I was known, but I was no national superhero or anything.
Marc:It's fucking tough racket.
Guest:I can't believe you did Conan that many times.
Guest:And no one gave a shit.
Guest:That's crazy.
Marc:It's bizarre.
Marc:It's baffling.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And I think in retrospect, I know what it was.
Marc:I just wasn't quite clicking.
Marc:It wasn't all together.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, it was like me sort of wrestling with me.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I didn't have a voice, a clear voice.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I don't think that happened until a few years ago.
Guest:Well, I guess, I mean, when you're on your way to your voice, that's still your voice.
Guest:I mean, I don't think any other 28-year-old comic has any more of a voice than you had when they were 28, but maybe it's more accessible to... Maybe.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:It just seemed like I was trying to resolve something other than just telling jokes.
Guest:Oh, yes.
Marc:Like I was on some... Yes.
Marc:It never felt like, hey, he's got an act.
Marc:It always felt like, I hope he works his shit out.
Guest:Good luck to him.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:he's not quite contained enough to be an entertainer but what what what inspired you to do it i mean who'd you see that made you feel like uh well dana carvey would be the guy that i saw that i was like before he got famous yeah before he got famous right before snl right before i got snl he was in the bay area he was just working regular rooms and i would listen to um i was cleaning houses yeah i listened to bennett in the morning alex bennett i was as a house cleaner yeah uh in orinda and you were a house cleaner
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I had dropped when I dropped out.
Guest:I mean, I hit bottom.
Guest:Not that cleaning houses is hitting bottom, but it was like not not probably the path everyone would hope I would be on.
Guest:But I was.
Marc:Did you feel like you're you're is like self penitent like that?
Marc:You know, like you were like, I'm dropping out of college.
Marc:I'm going to I'm going to live differently and I'm going to punish myself.
Guest:Something like that.
Guest:And also because I'd been a competitive swimmer, the family moved their life around me.
Guest:And I had work out in the morning and I'd work out at night and I had swim meets on the weekend.
Guest:And so I never had family dinner and I never was part of what everyone else was doing.
Guest:So I kind of felt like there was this weird dominance I had in the family that I probably shouldn't have.
Guest:I should have just been a kid.
Guest:So I think...
Guest:i wanted to have like a real job i'm like i knew people my age had had jobs before and i was just you know supposed to swim really well you're on this track yeah yeah and so um i also did need you know money but i was living with my parents but i i just got a job house cleaning i'm like what's it i you know i didn't clean anything my mother did everything for me like i didn't i the first couple jobs i got a lot of complaints because i didn't know how to clean things you
Guest:And it took me like eight hours to do a four hour job because I was not efficient at all.
Marc:I tried that.
Marc:I tried that too.
Marc:I mean, I worked in restaurants and stuff in, in when I was in high school and I, you know, I always had jobs, but I remember when I was in college, I was like, I want to earn some extra money.
Marc:I'm going to be a gardener.
Yeah.
Guest:It seems earthy and like you're just a regular person.
Marc:And I ripped up someone's entire garden.
Marc:And I thought I was pulling weeds.
Marc:And she was like, what did you do?
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:You wanted that stuff?
Marc:I thought I did such a great job.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Guest:Horrible moment.
Guest:Yeah, I got a complaint.
Guest:She didn't get to the kitchen, and I spent so much time in people's bedroom.
Guest:I thought it looked pristine, but I just didn't get to the kitchen.
Marc:That's funny, though, when you do have an entitled childhood is that they're coming in and they're criticizing you, and you're like, but wait.
Guest:Did you see the bed?
Guest:Your bed is, it's made perfect.
Guest:I made it four times to make sure it was good, you know?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you got the hang of it.
Guest:Yeah, but I remember listening to Alex Bennett and like Warren Thomas was on all the time and Bobcat and I guess Dana Kirby was on too, but I mostly remember, I have a distinct memory of cleaning a house in Orinda and I didn't know the dad of the house was home and I turned Alex Bennett way up and Warren Thomas was just being as filthy as you can be on the radio.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was like, Oh my God.
Guest:And then the dad walked in and I was terrified.
Guest:I'm like, Oh, you heard me listening to this, you know, but it was very, it was very almost sexually exciting to be listening to this comedy.
Guest:Cause I'd never, you know, I, I'd been raised on Carol Burnett, which was a different kind of comedy, but to hear this club stuff was so filthy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And exciting.
Guest:And what are they talking about?
Guest:And I'm a virgin.
Guest:And oh, my God.
Guest:You know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I remember, you know, starting to see those.
Guest:I just go by myself.
Guest:I would, you know, go by myself to the punchline and to the other cafe.
Marc:And when you're like 22.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I guess 21.
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:So it's like the early 80s or no.
Guest:It must have been 85-ish.
Guest:Yeah, I went and watched a lot of comedy.
Marc:And the zoo was still around?
Guest:Oh, the zoo was around until even after I left and went to New York.
Marc:It was there when I got there in 92, but it was sad.
Marc:So in the mid-80s, it was probably cranking.
Guest:Yeah, it was cool.
Guest:You go down there and- Who'd you see?
Marc:You saw Warren?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Although I mostly did the open mics, you know, I didn't, I saw some, Oh, well like Warren, I would see at the punchline or something like that, you know?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But like, so you wouldn't go see the shows at the Holy city zoo.
Marc:You just go when you started there.
Guest:Sometimes I'd see them, but mostly I tried to get up on stage every night.
Guest:So if I wasn't on the show, I didn't necessarily go to a lot.
Marc:And that was sort of like the heyday of SF comedy.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you can get up on stage every single night.
Guest:If you're willing to drive, I just was, you know, I'm cleaning out my stuff out of my parents' house as they're getting ready to, you know, shift, whatever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, um, uh, I found calendar, you know, going to Petaluma on Tuesday in the Sacramento and they're all just open.
Marc:You found your old calendar.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it's wild to see how much we chased it then.
Guest:Oh my God.
Marc:Like I've got my old calendars and it was like, you know, just every night driving to those, uh, like the, the equivalent of those, uh, triple runs.
Marc:yeah yeah yeah you know like two or three hours yeah every night for a free set yeah or ten dollars you get yeah yeah it's crazy like because i don't remember myself being that ambitious or compelled yeah but i know i was yeah but like it was all you thought about oh yeah do anything else yeah and you'd hang around with comics but at that time so you you just started going to the punchline and was like was dana ghoul still around and like who was he
Marc:was there but he wasn't like he was a way ahead of me no i know i know but like i'm just trying to think who you were seeing like you were seeing like was kevin meanie still there was paul poundstone kevin meanie was still there paul poundstone was still there yeah kevin many times dana was there and slayton yes and uh and ruben yes yes uh like like that whole crew and robin would be in and out sue murphy sue murphy sue murphy
Marc:Like I did the competition in 92.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you do it?
Guest:I did.
Guest:I did the competition twice.
Guest:I think 95 and I did it in 92 and 93.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was that right?
Marc:Or 93, 94.
Marc:One of them.
Guest:Remember getting in was like the best thing that ever happened to you.
Marc:I think it was like those must have been like the last years where it felt vital.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:You were like playing the payoff was good.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And if you made it to the final five, I'm the show is big.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You could win significant money.
Guest:And you'd be headlining all these rooms.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I came in second in 94.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:To Carlos.
Marc:That was Rocky.
Marc:It was me.
Marc:It was Carlos and me.
Marc:And then I think Patton and Rick Kearns.
Guest:Rick Kearns.
Marc:I saw him in Denver.
Guest:Rick Kearns.
Marc:Yeah, man.
Guest:There was a night to get in the top 40.
Guest:And they had the final.
Marc:Do you remember just looking at those numbers going, what?
Marc:What?
Marc:What do these numbers mean?
Guest:Oh, the grades?
Guest:Oh, the judging?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:What is that?
Guest:I did it with Vince Champ.
Guest:He was in one of my years.
Marc:Vince Champ is in jail.
Guest:Yes, yes.
Guest:But I beat Margaret Cho to get in the top 40 one year.
Marc:What's the highest you made it in the competition?
Guest:I got 12th.
Guest:That's good.
Marc:I think that's what I did the first year I went out there.
Marc:I guess I did it in 92 and 93.
Marc:I came in like 14th the first year when I first moved to San Francisco.
Guest:It's so interesting to see who did it.
Marc:And you just saw people melt down.
Marc:I saw Shang.
Marc:You remember Shang?
Marc:He just lost it.
Marc:He just fucking came unhinged, man.
Marc:Shang wasn't Shangri.
Marc:He was sad.
Guest:The Seattle competition was also just as crazy.
Guest:And I remember, I don't want to say the guy's name, just like getting angry and like boxing, shadow boxing backstage.
Guest:Just like, ah, dude.
Guest:It doesn't matter that much.
Marc:Yeah, but you're in it and it's weeks.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It takes forever.
Marc:Yes, yes.
Marc:For the first 40 and then you get down to what, 20 and then you get down to 10 and then you get down to five.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It went on for like six weeks, didn't it?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:John Fox.
Marc:Who made all that money?
Yeah.
Marc:Did you do his gigs too?
Guest:I still do.
Guest:I still work the underground.
Marc:And then there was that one on the island.
Marc:Was it Bainbridge?
Marc:I don't know if it was Bainbridge or another one.
Guest:Yeah, I remember what you were talking about.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:Yeah, you had to take a ferry out to this weird bar.
Marc:And all I remember is that the bar had some sort of keno game or a bingo game.
Marc:There was something there that freaked me out.
Guest:So desperate.
Guest:There's just so much distraction.
Guest:One time I did, I was on a triple run.
Guest:It was like, I think in jackpot, Nevada.
Guest:It was like a really small town in Nevada off 80.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you're on stage.
Guest:The stage is like a semicircle.
Guest:And then in front of you is the bar.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The little bar as your bartender working.
Guest:And then in front of you is a circle of slot machines.
Guest:And then the audience starts.
Guest:But the first row of the audience is sitting at the slot machines, which are at the bar.
Guest:Like they have to look through so many obstacles to even see you as a performer.
Guest:I can't do it.
Marc:I couldn't do it.
Marc:I don't think I could handle it anymore.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:No, no, no, no.
Marc:I mean, I did a lot of those kind of gigs where you're just like, you're just an addition on.
Marc:You're just some weird thing that they do once a week.
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Marc:And it was, I don't even know how I had the fortitude to do it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But you did it.
Marc:It was like against all odds.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To maintain attention.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And to sort of do well within the, like in Boston, it was very regional.
Marc:So all the acts were regional.
Marc:I wasn't.
Marc:I was some like tightly wrapped, angry Jewish.
Marc:Yeah, you don't seem like a Boston guy at all.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:I guess we should be grateful and pat ourselves on the back for fucking living through that.
Guest:Yeah, you seem like a San Francisco comic.
Guest:You don't seem like a Boston comic.
Guest:Even though you were only there for a couple years?
Marc:It made a big difference.
Marc:It was sort of like, oh, this is where you can just talk?
Marc:yeah they'll take anything here yeah they'll be very very patient they're very supportive yeah noodle around for an hour yeah yeah yeah yeah it was uh it was it was it was mind-changing so okay so you go so you establish yourself there but you didn't move here first i moved to new york for because i remember i was in new york when you moved to new york right yeah i think so yeah yeah yeah and that way i i don't remember you being very happy there
Guest:Really?
Guest:Were you?
Guest:You know, maybe my memory is flawed.
Guest:It was very difficult, but I loved it.
Guest:And when I had to leave, I was pretty upset.
Guest:It was like I had a week to leave because I got a job out here.
Guest:But yeah, I loved it.
Marc:Isn't that where you had your kid?
Guest:Yeah, I did have my kid there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What was the whole story?
Marc:How did all that work out?
Guest:What?
Guest:What do you mean?
Marc:He's still alive.
Marc:I still have him.
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:But I mean, like, so you're out here.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And what made you go to New York?
Guest:I did Montreal.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got new faces.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So I was preparing for my SICOM that...
Guest:I think 97, maybe 98, because I moved to New York in 99.
Marc:Did you get a deal?
Marc:No, I didn't get a deal.
Marc:No, I don't get deals.
Guest:I've never had a deal in my entire career.
Marc:You're gonna.
Guest:You think it's gonna come?
Guest:Yeah, I can't quit till I have a deal.
Marc:Well, I mean, now you're a big, big fancy writer.
Marc:Yeah, sure.
Marc:Theoretically, you could.
Guest:Yeah, maybe.
Marc:You could get in the room with something.
Guest:Yeah, I could.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, yeah, I stayed with Ray James and he was in this incredible loft in Williamsburg.
Marc:I kind of remember that.
Guest:Which must be a million dollars.
Guest:Just unbelievable now.
Guest:But back then it was like junkie.
Marc:It was just him and his guitars?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, him and his guitars, and he had some roommate that lived on the other end of the loft, and it was so big that they had separate entrances, and they never saw each other.
Marc:I feel like I've been to that loft once.
Marc:Like, all the guitars were on a shelf in cases, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I haven't seen him in a long time, man.
Guest:It was great.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So you leave Montreal in 98.
Marc:You're like, this is it.
Marc:I went to New York.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:I thought I was on the map.
Guest:I went to New York and I'd done lifetime girls night out.
Guest:And so I'm like, I have a TV credit.
Guest:And then I get to New York and it's, you know, of course it's meaningless.
Guest:I remember when I first got there, I got some spots at the strip and, um, I remember seeing you there.
Guest:I did not know what I like a New York audience.
Guest:It takes, um,
Guest:It took me years to figure them out.
Guest:You got to be tight.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And you kind of like I just felt like I had this like the sheen of Walnut Creek, California all over me.
Guest:And it just showed that I'd I'd only worked road rooms.
Guest:I'd only worked for other for white middle class audiences who were just like me.
Guest:Like I only knew how to speak to people that were like me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And New York, you really have to figure out how to talk to everybody.
Guest:And you kind of have to get dirty and get messy and have horrible experiences there before you feel like you're one of them.
Marc:Yeah, you've got to fight it out.
Marc:There's no vulnerability.
Marc:You can't be like, what am I going to do tonight?
Marc:No!
Marc:No.
Marc:I know.
Marc:You can't.
Marc:Be prepared.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You've got 12 minutes.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And so when I was at the Strip, it was like a packed house.
Guest:And I was used to killing in front of packed houses.
Guest:Like, I'd done it in South Carolina.
Guest:I'd done it all over the place.
Guest:And every, you know, so many states I'd driven to in my dumb blazer.
Guest:And I just bombed.
Guest:And I was like, how's this happening?
Guest:What?
Guest:What's happening?
Guest:What?
Guest:Did I not tell the joke right?
Guest:Like I was going over the joke in my head as soon as I touched.
Guest:You finished it because I there was a silence or this like a pity laugh.
Marc:It's just your attitude.
Marc:I think so.
Marc:You were too comfortable.
Guest:There was something.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:New Yorkers don't tolerate much.
Guest:Sort of like they can smell it on you.
Marc:It's weird.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And then when and you also the other thing to learn is when one joke works is not to panic.
Guest:And I didn't I panicked immediately because that didn't happen to me.
Guest:I'm solid.
Guest:I was like, always kill your opener.
Marc:If you're opening joke didn't work, you just you just tumble through the rest.
Guest:I don't got another one.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The next four are callbacks to this one.
Guest:Oh, shit.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:so it took a while of panicking through yeah doing all these kind of ratty rooms in new york where i kind of like got a feel for it you know and i like what new york comedy club and those kind of things yeah and your comedy club they had this they had the the nice room and then they had the closet at the end it was such a fire hazard it but it was great like a nice room that's an overstatement
Marc:We had that one back room with the broken mic always.
Guest:Yeah, I can't.
Marc:And the shitty mic stand.
Marc:And then there's that closet-sized room where you saw yourself in a mirror.
Marc:And literally, it was like this long, narrow room.
Marc:And there was only room for one row of people.
Marc:Right in front of you.
Marc:Right in front of you.
Guest:But to the left were like 40 people way, way back.
Guest:And they were angry because they were promised to show they could see.
Guest:And they're just seeing you on profile from very far away.
Guest:But it was the best.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because it really helped me figure it out, work it out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you were in New York for how long?
Guest:10 years, 10 years.
Marc:And that's where you met your husband?
Guest:Well, oh my God.
Guest:No, I was never married.
Guest:And so, no, we were never married.
Guest:No.
Guest:He's a comic.
Guest:He's a comic.
Guest:We actually met in Texas where we were working together.
Guest:And so he came to New York.
Guest:In Austin or San Antonio?
Guest:River Center.
Marc:Oh yeah, San Antonio.
Marc:Yeah, San Antonio.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So then we had a kid and then that didn't work out.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Skip to, and now I'm here.
Marc:You had a kid from that week you met him?
Guest:No, we were together for a few years, and then I got pregnant.
Guest:Surprisingly, I wasn't trying to get pregnant.
Guest:It was an accident.
Marc:And was there a struggle to decide whether you were going to have a child?
Guest:No, because I was 40, and I didn't comprehend the enormity of what I was taking on.
Guest:I was like, what the fuck?
Marc:If I'm gonna have one, this is it.
Guest:Yeah, this is it.
Guest:And at that time, Anna Nicole Smith had just had a kid.
Guest:I'm like, she can do it.
Guest:But I used all these bad examples.
Guest:I'm like, if these people can do it, I can do it.
Marc:You're doing better than her, I think.
Guest:I am, a little bit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you have a child.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And the relationship doesn't work out.
Marc:The relationship doesn't work out.
Marc:Like how soon after you had the child?
Guest:When he was three, we split up almost.
Marc:I can't even imagine how like what because he doesn't it's not like he's a huge comic.
Marc:So you got to worry about making a living.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You got to worry about, you know, like who's going to take care of it.
Guest:Right.
Guest:I have to be way more responsible than I want to be.
Guest:And I still resent every day that I have to, like, if I want to, like, I got to wake up at six.
Guest:Like, if I want to get the things done, I need to get done.
Guest:And I long for those days.
Guest:I remember those days where I lived with my parents on Walnut Creek and I was driving to the city every night and I would wake up at 11 and I would go swimming and it was like the easiest day and I would just get all excited for my five minute set at the zoo that night.
Guest:Like, that was the most fun, even though I was broke, it was so fun, you know?
Yeah.
Guest:And now it's, I have a to-do list.
Marc:How old's the kid now?
Guest:He's seven.
Guest:We help him with homework.
Guest:He's in a Spanish immersion.
Guest:So I have to do his homework with him in Spanish.
Guest:And, you know, it's just a lot.
Marc:What's a Spanish immersion?
Guest:He's taught entirely in Spanish.
Guest:And so he will be like fluent and have a native accent by the time he's in sixth grade.
Marc:What was that decision about?
Yeah.
Guest:The benefits of bilingual education are immense.
Guest:It was free.
Marc:It's a public school.
Marc:He's a father Latino, isn't he?
Guest:He is, but he doesn't relate.
Guest:He's not like a Spanish speaker.
Marc:Okay, so you've got a three-year-old.
Marc:Your relationship is falling apart.
Marc:You're in New York at that time?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:LA after you left New York yes and I yeah we guys were together we came out to LA together and then then we broke up pretty soon after that and and then I've got a three-year-old I get fired I was writing for Bonnie Hunt and I got fired that show didn't last long no it didn't right and how did you get that gig
Guest:That's why you moved?
Guest:That's why I moved.
Guest:Before that, I wrote on Tough Crowd and Ferguson.
Marc:Did you get your first writing gig just by submitting?
Guest:Yeah, to Tough Crowd.
Guest:That was my first gig.
Guest:And I never even considered that I would be a writer, professional writer.
Guest:It just didn't seem like me.
Guest:I was like, oh, I'm a road comic.
Guest:And it seemed like, oh, they're all smarter than me.
Guest:And and then a tough crowd, you know, Colin, Colin Quinn, he hired every comic.
Guest:I'm like, oh, they're not smarter than me.
Guest:And then when I saw some of the writers, I was like, you've got to be shitting me.
Guest:That guy's been a joke in 20 years.
Guest:He's a writer.
Guest:I want to be a writer.
Guest:And that's when I started pummeling him with jokes.
Guest:With Colin.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:You guys were friends before.
Guest:Yes, we did a show.
Guest:Rick Newman at Catch a Rising Star, he put me on a show that went to Guantanamo.
Guest:He did a show at Gitmo for a USO show, and Colin was on the show.
Guest:And that's how I met him.
Guest:And that's how I heard about the tough crowd.
Guest:And I just said, can I submit to you guys?
Guest:Can I please, please?
Guest:And I had to do like...
Marc:And you had a kid at this time.
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:I didn't have a kid.
Guest:I was just, I was like, I want to be part of this.
Guest:I want to be part of that world.
Guest:I want to be part of the seller.
Guest:I wanted to be part of whatever tough crowd was.
Guest:I was like, that's what I want.
Guest:That's, that's what I connect with as a comic is that kind of rough comedy.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I like that kind of comedy too.
Guest:And that, that wasn't, they didn't really do that in San Francisco.
Guest:That's, I think I definitely felt when I moved to New York, I'm like, ah, this is what I've always wanted.
Marc:This is the team.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Colin took to you and he.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I ended up getting hired.
Guest:And so I was there for both seasons.
Guest:And, you know, that was terrifying.
Guest:You know, it wasn't a ton of writing either.
Guest:But now I know some jobs are all writing.
Guest:Like the job I'm on now is writing content.
Marc:was a very rare and weird show yeah you really like it you know tonally you just didn't know what the fuck was gonna happen right right it was wild to be on it yeah and it was it was amazing that the crew that came out of that yeah and you know it's sad that you know like a few guys are dead now yes the regulars yes but patrice and mike d yep
Marc:But the tone of it was unlike anything else.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It was just like, what is going on?
Marc:I know.
Marc:Who's in charge?
Guest:And when you did it, man, those segments went by so fast.
Guest:You're like, but I didn't get my thing in, and you're changing the topic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:It was mind-blowing to do your first stuff crowd.
Marc:It's a shame that it went.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's scary.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Because you've got to, you know, not only do you have to have your little bit, but you've got to, you know, try and get a word in with Patrice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Patrice would love it when you were trying to set up a joke and he would just jump all over it.
Guest:And now the real fun is you have to rebound to that.
Guest:You can't be like, but I didn't finish this punchline I wrote last night.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If I knew Patrice, I'm like, I'm fucked.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I know.
Marc:You're just going to have to deal with Patrice.
Marc:The entire show is going to be dealing with Patrice.
Marc:It's about Patrice.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Marc:The rest of them were relatively diplomatic.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But when Patrice was on, it's like, oh.
Guest:Nick and Greg and Jim would know when you were for a joke.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And Voss, too, and Keith.
Marc:But yeah, Patrice.
Marc:Patrice would tolerate nothing.
Marc:He would smell you.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Ah, you look like you think you're proud of this one.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Pow!
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:Oh, he was so good, wasn't he?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So that was the first writing gig.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:And then you just kind of moved from there.
Marc:Because I never did the writing thing.
Marc:But you know, once.
Guest:You had your Buzzcocks show, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, but I didn't write for that.
Marc:That was a disaster.
Marc:But the first experience I've really had writing is with Maren.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But like, so from Tough Crowd, you were now a writer and you were able to market yourself that way?
Marc:Is that the way it worked?
Guest:It was weird.
Guest:The show ended and no one was happy it ended.
Guest:It wasn't like, we were all just sort of like, oh, goddammit.
Guest:And then...
Marc:And for no reason.
Marc:What is their reasoning on anything?
Marc:It's just, it's always been sort of like, why?
Marc:Why?
Marc:What would it hurt you?
Guest:I think they might have had Colbert in the wings, which is, Colbert's great, but you know what?
Guest:You could push Tough Crowd a half hour later.
Guest:Yeah, put it at midnight.
Marc:Who cares?
Guest:Yes, yeah.
Guest:And you know, if they had just lasted another year, it was so clippable.
Guest:I mean, it would be perfect now for just video.
Marc:Even now, I watch the one with Geraldo and Leary.
Guest:Oh my God, yeah.
Marc:that thing was that is so stunning yes and it was so you know it's one of those things where like that was legit yeah i mean you know totally that like that was a brilliant comeback yeah and it should have ended there but no you know dennis couldn't take it right right you could see him like i've been challenged oh my god and it was just like you know then he started like you know what are you writing jokes yeah greg's like yeah that's what we do here he's like it's
Marc:crazy yeah it's very satisfying to watch not because i have anything against dennis just because it was like what real it's two styles of comedy clashing on television and not being polite to each other right you know and they're both really funny very funny styles the great thing about colin as a host was like he would just pull out oh my god he loved that shit he never tried to stop it ever yes because there were times where you look at him like are you gonna
Guest:Are you going to save me?
Guest:No.
Marc:No.
Guest:You should know how to swim by now, friend.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's a lot of tough love on that show.
Guest:Totally.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So from there you went to what?
Guest:Then I wrote for The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson.
Guest:That was a quick move to L.A.
Guest:and I was bewildered and I was like, I didn't even know if I wanted to be a writer.
Guest:That was the first time I moved out here.
Guest:For about a year.
Guest:And I was it was weird.
Guest:It was like, oh, you're a writer now.
Guest:So you must get try to get writing jobs.
Guest:Like, oh, OK.
Guest:And so I was on that show.
Guest:And then I left that show because I was afraid they were going to fire me, which I now know is not.
Guest:you ever operate in life right but um and i got it i had an offer i worked on adam carolla had a show right and then that show ended and then i moved back to new york and that's when i conceived my son yeah i worked on a website in new york which one it was 23 6 it was a comedy yeah i remember okay
Guest:And, uh, and now, so, so, uh, that, that, that ended, um, in 2008 and my kid was like two, two and a half.
Guest:And, uh, I saw that, um, I, I knew the, the EP Daniel Kelson from Corolla of Bonnie Hunt show.
Guest:And I just saw on like on Hollywood, I just saw in the, in the news that Bonnie had a new show and this was the EP.
Guest:And I just, I just emailed them.
Guest:I'm like, Hey, you guys hiring?
Guest:I'll do a packet.
Guest:I'll do a packet.
Guest:I was really good at doing packets.
Guest:I could turn them out.
Marc:What is a packet for people who are,
Guest:packet is you figure out what the show like the kind of the stuff you'd have on the show like if you're going to do a common packet you write a bunch of monologue jokes and a bunch of potential sketches you know not not full out sketches but just idea yeah yeah pitches something like that and so um he he said yeah and i did and and then he hired me and i had to come out the next week uh-huh and um so i had to you know get my kid and and come on out and the relationship was over already
Guest:It was over very soon because I discovered via email that he had, you know, had an affair.
Guest:So that ended that very quickly.
Guest:And then I was just sort of, and then Bonnie Hunt, that show ended for me.
Guest:And then I did Last Comic Standing.
Marc:And how'd you do on that?
Guest:I got in the top 10.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I was eliminated.
Guest:I was like, they eliminated the first three comics on the first show of the elimination.
Guest:I was one of the first three.
Guest:So then I was like, oh, fuck.
Guest:i have a kid i'm 40 i told i said or i'm 40 no way i guess i was 43 at the time and i i said my age on television so now i'm ruined you know my god and i i didn't know what to do and and it's again like with montreal where everyone's like oh yeah man you're gonna get a manager it's all you're fucking set when you're in the top 10 no you're not i didn't get any management i didn't get anything you know and um
Guest:And then I heard Conan was hiring, you know, the TBS show was starting and I did a packet for them and I got that job.
Guest:So I've been writing on Conan ever since and just doing stand up here and going on the road on, on high this week.
Marc:But that's a great job to have because it's such a sweet bunch of people.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:And, you know, some of those guys have been there probably for almost 20 years.
Guest:Kylie and Michael Gordon.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But I guess the great thing is, is that, you know, they're running their own ship over there.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And there's a lot of confidence there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you get health benefits.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:It's a writer's guild job.
Marc:Because I have to assume that at some point that survival mechanism kicked in when you realize, like, you know, you're going to have to make the money.
Guest:I know.
Yeah.
Guest:yeah bring up this kid right and what what is the situation you have with visitation or um i mostly have my son i have him his dad takes him on um most weekends but not not all weekends he's out here yes he's out here as well and he's still doing comedy um yeah okay i don't we don't you know we just organize pickups by text and try to keep it like that and then we don't get into arguments my son doesn't know we don't get
Marc:along you know he hasn't seen really so there's no uh there's no um uh goodwill there i mean there's like because i i know that a lot of times like with my brother with the exes it's horrible for a while but then eventually you figure something it'll probably come around to goodwill at some point i'm open to feeling goodwill
Marc:But the kid's good?
Guest:He's great.
Guest:Yeah, he's awesome.
Guest:Well, it worked out.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:But what do you feel hasn't worked out for you that you still want?
Marc:You want to be recognized as a... A comic, yeah.
Marc:Isn't that weird?
Guest:I know, I don't feel like I have what I want.
Marc:Dude, I get popular because of this.
Marc:And I'm like, you're a great interviewer, Mike.
Marc:It's so awesome, yeah.
Guest:But I'm a... I know, I know what I'm saying.
Marc:I have a special on television.
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I'm not an interviewer.
Guest:I'm a comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I've grown.
Marc:I've accepted it because I know that I like this is my life's work.
Marc:But, you know, but I still do the comedy.
Marc:But there's part of me when I started doing this, you know, I'd let go of the possibility of doing a TV show or being a relevant comic or any of that.
Marc:But I didn't know this would kick in either.
Guest:But I really let it go.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:And then everything started to change.
Marc:And now I just, what I have to accept is like, I'm not for everybody, but there are people that dig what I do and that's enough.
Marc:That is enough now.
Marc:That is enough.
Marc:I don't have to, I'm not Brian Regan.
Marc:I'm not Louie.
Marc:I'm not Gaffigan.
Marc:I'm this very specific thing, but I found my little place in the world.
Marc:That's what you want as a comic?
Marc:I think so, yeah.
Guest:You know, I wrote a book about a year and a half ago.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:What was that called?
Guest:It's called Shitty Mom.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was sort of an odd situation where there's three women thought of the idea and they hired me to write it.
Guest:So we're all sort of in it together.
Guest:But they're all my stories.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:But they are like promotional machines.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:So we're all sort of in it together.
Marc:Was there an idea to start sort of like a shitty mom empire?
Guest:Yeah, but it's like I'm not a professional mom.
Guest:I do jokes about my kid, but I feel like I'm a comic.
Guest:I don't want to be the shitty mom.
Guest:That's not me either.
Guest:It's just a bunch of funny things I wrote about a certain topic that has dominated my life.
Marc:It's not an ideology.
Guest:Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Marc:But if I was smart, I would be like... Pretend.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I would be all over it.
Guest:I'd be wearing my shitty mom outfit.
Marc:I wouldn't be true to yourself.
Marc:Right, right, right.
Marc:You're an honest comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you want to be out there being something you don't think you are.
Guest:Right.
Marc:But what do you write over at Conan?
Marc:Mostly monologue?
Guest:Monologue jokes, yeah.
Marc:So you just sit and churn out how many jokes a day?
Guest:It depends on the stories, but I would say low is 35 and high is 50.
Marc:How many people write monologues?
Marc:You and Kylie?
Guest:There's four of us.
Guest:Myself, Kylie, Rob Kuttner, Brian Kiley, super funny guy.
Guest:Rob Kuttner.
Marc:We started together in Boston.
Marc:Oh yeah, that's right.
Marc:I gotta get him on.
Marc:Oh, you should, yeah.
Guest:He's an odd guy.
Guest:He's a very unusual guy.
Guest:He has a very normal life.
Guest:He has a long marriage.
Guest:He has two kids.
Guest:He still does stand up.
Guest:He's done Letterman a couple of times.
Guest:He's like a great stand up.
Guest:And he's not fucked up in a classic comic way.
Marc:He was amazing because when he was on the original show, he kept an apartment in New York with Todd Berry.
Marc:Like he lived in the room in Todd Berry's, I think, apartment, but he never saw him because he would always just immediately go back up north to New England to spend time with his family.
Marc:So like comedy and writing comedy was like his secret life.
Marc:And then he went to this, he had a normal life.
Marc:But I guess out here it's working out for everybody that they moved everybody out.
Marc:You have a better quality of life out here, especially if you have kids than if you live in New York.
Marc:Well, that's a, that's trippy.
Marc:I got to have him on because we literally, when I first started doing open mics in the mid eighties, I mean, he was, he was there.
Marc:I mean, we were all there.
Marc:John Groff was there and like, you know, it's interesting.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He has a lot of good Boston stories.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's a machine.
Guest:He's a joke writing machine.
Guest:He's just great at it.
Marc:But so the four of you churn out together on a daily basis, hundreds of jokes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Over a hundred.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Way over a hundred.
Marc:What's your hit rate?
Marc:Good.
Guest:This week it was, it was, it's, you know, let's see if, if Kona does like 10 jokes per mono.
Guest:So if I get two or three, I'm right, I'm even.
Guest:So I had, I had a one, a one, a four and a four.
Guest:So I was like, all right, I average, it was about average.
Marc:And is that an exciting feeling still to see your joke work?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:I used to love that during the monologue.
Marc:All the monologue writers would kind of gather around the monitor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then when they don't work, you're like, oh, fuck.
Marc:But do you have to answer to that?
Guest:No.
Guest:And no one keeps track of Conan who writes the jokes.
Guest:We just submit them as a batch.
Guest:So I'm the only one that knows I got one joke on one day, and I'm the only one that knows I got four on one day.
Guest:And he doesn't know who wrote that.
Guest:No.
Guest:Mm-mm.
Guest:I think you can kind of get a feeling for people's voices, though, you know?
Guest:I can always guess a Kuttner joke, and I can kind of guess a Kylie joke.
Guest:Kylie's economy of words is something I aspire to.
Marc:Yeah, he's a real kind of classic one-liner guy in a way.
Marc:Well, I'm glad you're doing well, and I'm sorry to hear about your dad and that ongoing situation.
Marc:Are you spending a lot of time up there?
Guest:Yeah, I've been flying up a lot, a lot of weekends since we found out in July, so I've been going up there a lot.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:yeah does he have peace with it or is he I don't know it's kind of I don't know it's he's fighting it you know he's got water from lords that he puts on all the tumor places and he's doing a second round of chemo and he's like he's had he's fighting it every single every possible way so I don't know if that's acceptance or not
Marc:No, I know.
Marc:But I guess that's what people do.
Marc:I would.
Guest:What are you going to do?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You got grandkids.
Guest:You just want another day with them.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:How many kids does your sister have?
Marc:She has two.
Guest:She's in Portland.
Guest:So we're both one Southwest flight away from my dad because he's pretty close to the Oakland airport.
Marc:Well, I'm sorry you're going through that.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:But you seem to be holding up okay.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Well, thanks for talking to me.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Thanks, Mark.
Marc:Wasn't that fun?
Marc:She's great.
Marc:What happens now?
Marc:Well, you end the show, man.
Marc:Don't talk to yourself in third person.
Marc:It's weird.
Marc:Isn't it meta?
Marc:No, it's just weird.
Marc:Thank you for listening.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop is there.
Marc:I'm drinking it now.
Marc:It's probably too late to be drinking it, but I'm drinking it.
Marc:Pow.
Marc:Here's a little one.
Marc:Get the app.
Marc:Upload to Premium.
Marc:Get all 400 and some odd episodes.
Marc:All right?
Marc:I just want you to...
Marc:I just want you to be okay, man.
Marc:Do you hear me?
Marc:Woman, man, people.
Marc:I just want you to be okay.
Marc:I'm okay.
Marc:Don't I sound okay?
Marc:Don't I?
Marc:Huh?
Marc:Fine.
Marc:Fine.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I can't, you know, I can't, I can only, I'm only one person here.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Got this guy sending me records and I like it.
Marc:I appreciate it.
Marc:He sent me a lot of records, like a lot of great records, like 150 great records.
Marc:And I don't really know him.
Marc:I kind of knew his half sister, but I'm just getting these boxes of records and I don't know what it means.
Marc:Is it, is it a cry for help?
Marc:Is he okay?
Marc:Is this the last thing he's doing?
Marc:Am I going to get that email?
Marc:Or is he just being a nice guy?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I appreciate it though, Justin.
Marc:I appreciate it.
Marc:I hope you're alright.
Marc:Alright.
Marc:Boomer lives!