Episode 47 - Margaret Cho
Guest 1:Lock the gates!
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Really?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Are we doing this?
Marc:Wait for it.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:And it's also, eh, what the fuck?
Marc:What's wrong with me?
Marc:It's time for WTF!
Marc:What the fuck?
Marc:With Mark Maron.
Marc:Okay, here we go.
Marc:Let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:Whatever you want to refer to yourself as.
Marc:I hope everyone's doing all right.
Marc:Thank you for listening to What the Fuck.
Marc:I am Marc Maron.
Marc:This is my show.
Marc:I am in my newly somewhat sound insulated garage.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:We're getting more professional up here at the Cat Ranch.
Marc:Looking over the hills of the barrio of Highland Park, I got my buddy.
Marc:My buddy Andy came over with some foam, some acoustic foam that he somehow managed to get hold of.
Marc:And I don't know if you can tell the difference, but I can tell the difference just by looking at it.
Marc:These just patches of foam at different places on the wall.
Marc:that are making me feel like something has happened, like it sounds different, like it's much better, like that implies that I am running a professional operation amidst the boxes and pictures and books and crap in this place, guitars, picture frames, all over the place.
Marc:Got a lot of things going on.
Marc:Very excited to have our guest today.
Marc:We have the amazing Margaret Cho.
Marc:princess margaret will be here in the garage and she's uh she's uh what do you she's a pip does anyone use that word anymore i haven't talked to her in a while but i've been seeing her around and i'm very excited that she wanted to spend some time with me though she intimidates me a little bit because you know she's very um she's a powerful woman man powerful woman go anyway yeah you know just uh you know she's just a force to be reckoned with
Marc:And I remember really trying to pursue her at one time for at least an evening.
Marc:And maybe I'll talk to her about that.
Marc:But I hope you enjoy the interview.
Marc:I hope I enjoy the interview.
Marc:I'm sure I will.
Marc:One of the things I'm thinking of lately, since we have done some shows about pornography, about sex work, is I've decided in some weird way that people in porn are sex clowns.
Marc:I've decided that's what I'm going to call them, that men, women in porn are sex clowns.
Marc:Because it's not a real representation of sex.
Marc:It's sort of exaggerated.
Marc:I'm looking at a definition of clown right here.
Marc:A comic performer as in a circus, theatrical production, or the like, who wears an outlandish costume and makeup.
Marc:Maybe, okay, I think a huge...
Marc:Schlong could be outlandish and be considered a costume when it is being displayed as part of the getup and make an entertains by pantomiming common situations or actions in exaggerated or ridiculous fashion by juggling or tumbling, etc.
Marc:I think we can put sex right in there.
Marc:Having sex because it's so exaggerated.
Marc:It's so ridiculous in some ways, although it is titillating.
Marc:I've decided they're clowns and I'm not even thinking that's negative.
Marc:I'm having a T-shirt made that goes along with nerd cock, sex clown.
Marc:And it's just going to have a woman who is a porn actress in a sexual position with her legs spread and her boobs up with black stripes over the boobs and the pussy.
Marc:And she's going to be in full clown makeup with clown shoes on, sex clown.
Marc:That's what I'm working with.
Marc:Because then I tripped out on this idea I had for an animated short called Bukkake Circus.
Marc:which essentially is like a big top.
Marc:You know, you see the circus and everyone's there for the circus and you hear the music.
Marc:You know, and out into the big top Volkswagen just drives out and clowns start getting out of the car.
Marc:One after the other until it's like 20 clowns get out of this car and everyone's amazed so many clowns could fit in the car.
Marc:And then they just all gather around the car and jerk off on it.
Marc:That's Bukkake Circus.
Marc:If anybody wants to do the animation for that, please do it and send it to me and give me a created by credit and written by Bukkake Circus.
Marc:You get the idea.
Marc:Enjoy.
Marc:Another thing that's been going on with me and my mind is that I am getting older.
Marc:And I'm finding that a lot of the memories that I have have become a little hazy, if not gone altogether.
Marc:And it's just sort of interesting because I also started to realize that we all know that you lose your memory as you get older.
Marc:And I think that is maybe a biological favor that that is that is bequeathed upon us by the great adapter, by the great the great wire of all things living is that some of these things fade, things lose their importance, things that were life life changing in a bad way or life threatening or made you crazy for a long time.
Marc:And you never thought you'd get out of it.
Marc:They just turn into psychological dust.
Marc:Just strange little things where you think back on me like, how the fuck was I so crazy about that shit?
Marc:And I guess that's going out to a lot of my younger listeners because I still get a lot of emails from from people in high school.
Marc:I'm telling you, man, all that shit that you think is is, you know, life or death, dude, you're going to get to a point if you're lucky where you're not even going to remember it.
Marc:You're not even going to remember those kids that jumped you in the hallway.
Marc:I mean, it might define your life a little bit for a while, and it may scar you permanently.
Marc:And some part of your personality just becomes a reaction to that event.
Marc:But the event itself will become silly and forgotten.
Marc:And then when you get old enough to go to your high school reunions and you realize that,
Marc:All those guys that did that to you are now fat and stupid and bald and work in air conditioner installment places and have been through three wives.
Marc:That is a satisfying thing.
Marc:So for all you...
Marc:gentle, sensitive, smart, socially awkward people out there in high school, just hang on until your first or second high school reunion because the payback is certainly worth it.
Marc:It's so beautiful to go to that reunion
Marc:And to just see those jocks and those people that were so popular have just crumbled into physical messes, just messes of fat and broken dreams.
Marc:And then you'll get your sweet revenge.
Marc:Time will take care of it.
Marc:But try to keep it in perspective.
Marc:The other thing I had was a moment, and sometimes I get a little sensitive, I guess, about at one time being a horrendously angry, panicky, destructive, abusive person.
Marc:And I just I start to realize like so much of what we see every day on television in our lives.
Marc:It's just just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.
Marc:You know, TV, politics, everything else, because it comes right down to it.
Marc:And I've said this before.
Marc:For some reason, you know, I'm a kind of guy, you know, I got my brain's got to keep going.
Marc:I got to keep pushing.
Marc:I got to keep moving.
Marc:I got to keep putting things, you know, in it.
Marc:I got to eat nicotine and drink coffee and hold on.
Marc:Pow!
Marc:I think I just shit in my head.
Marc:I switched it up.
Marc:Justcoffee.coop.
Marc:You can go to wtfpod.com and check that out.
Marc:It's fair trade coffee.
Marc:So if that influences you at all, there you go.
Marc:But what was I saying?
Marc:So I got to keep my brain going at a million miles an hour in order to feel alive.
Marc:But that's not really being alive.
Marc:That's just churning the shit.
Marc:That's just spinning the wheels, keeping the plates up in the air to make yourself feel like you're engaged with something.
Marc:And I had one of those moments.
Marc:I don't know if it was a meditative moment.
Marc:I don't know what the fuck it was.
Marc:But it was really just a moment where I drove down the street
Marc:It's the middle of the day.
Marc:It was a nice enough day.
Marc:I'm just stopped at a stoplight.
Marc:A couple of choppers go by with some big dudes on them.
Marc:And I'm just sitting there at the stoplight.
Marc:And for some reason, my entire brain went quiet.
Marc:And I was just right there in that moment and realizing like, wow, this is it.
Marc:This is what being alive is like.
Marc:There's nothing going on in my head.
Marc:There's nothing.
Marc:This is it.
Marc:I'm just part of this universal frequency of things.
Marc:It's all very temporary.
Marc:And this is it.
Marc:And there was some comfort in that.
Marc:But then it was followed by, you know what?
Marc:It's really not enough.
Marc:I got to kickstart my brain again.
Marc:Maybe I should get a chopper.
Marc:Maybe that's what I should be.
Marc:Why not be one of those guys?
Marc:Just get fat, get a big chopper, drive around the country, hang out with other people with big choppers, go to big picnics with other chopper people and take pictures of your fat girlfriend with her boobs hanging out.
Marc:Woo, yeah, man.
Marc:Rock and roll.
Marc:Nah, that's not going to happen.
Marc:So, Margaret Cho is in my garage.
Marc:She saw one of the cats.
Marc:I saw.
Marc:Monkey, who ran away.
Guest 2:That's a monkey.
Marc:Monkey ran away immediately.
Guest 2:Yeah, why?
Marc:Because he's skittish.
Guest 2:Scared?
Marc:He was once wild.
Guest 2:Oh.
Marc:And when they're once wild, they're always a little wild.
Marc:Takes a little while to get to know them.
Guest 2:Well, that's like you.
Marc:Yeah, but I was once wild.
Yeah.
Guest 2:No, you're pretty wild still and skittish.
Guest 2:Skittish?
Guest 2:Yeah, you're skittish.
Guest 2:You think so?
Guest 2:I think so.
Marc:I don't see it.
Guest 2:I don't see it.
Marc:You do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Oh, no, you see right through me.
Guest 2:Well, no, it's fine.
Marc:Maybe I don't know what skittish means.
Guest 2:Well, skittish is just you just kind of keep to yourself.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, right.
Marc:I guess I am.
Guest 2:You just kind of keep to yourself.
Marc:You move real fast like that.
Marc:Yeah, dart around.
Guest 2:You really dart around.
Guest 2:You're like a fish.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest 2:Like you go, oh.
Marc:Where's Mark?
Guest 2:There he goes.
Guest 2:You sort of stay static for a bit, and then you're gone.
Marc:Yeah, and then I'm gone.
Guest 2:And then you're static for a bit, and then you're gone.
Marc:Well, I haven't seen you.
Marc:I haven't seen you in a while.
Marc:What is this music project you're working on?
Guest 2:It was something for me to...
Guest 2:elevate the form of comedy music beyond... Parody?
Guest 2:Song parodies, which I like.
Guest 2:And I like Weird Al a lot, and I like Flight of the Conchords a lot, but it's also a way to fuck musicians.
Marc:Yeah, how'd that go, though?
Guest 2:Not very well.
Guest 2:Not very well.
Marc:You couldn't get laid by a musician?
Guest 2:No, no, I did.
Guest 2:The thing is that I have been getting fucked by musicians for the last 20-something years.
Guest 2:So I thought that maybe working with them would make it, I would fuck different ones.
Guest 2:But actually, no.
Guest 2:I actually picked more people.
Guest 2:The people that I liked, their music, either they were married or it just wasn't the right thing.
Marc:So you got in to make this record thinking you were gonna get laid a lot.
Marc:Nothing.
Guest 2:Nothing.
Guest 2:I still got laid a lot, but by other people.
Guest 2:Not by the musicians themselves, but other people.
Marc:Now what is this thing you're on these days?
Marc:You're on like a fuck tear?
Marc:You're just like, I mean, is this common for you?
Marc:Because you're talking about it a lot on stage.
Guest 2:Yeah, no, it's not.
Guest 2:seems very conscious it's conscious like i'm gonna do this i'm gonna try to work it out well i'm trying to figure out how to occupy myself without um and it was i was it was doing a lot of drinking and doing a lot of drugs and stuff and then that sort of didn't really work out for me and so now i'm just kind of on a sexual rampage aren't you i was on a sexual rampage for yeah i i guess so yeah
Guest 2:Well, how many people do you think?
Guest 2:I mean, what did you do?
Guest 2:What did you do?
Marc:What did I do?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, after I got divorced, I started compulsively sort of dating and sexually acting out.
Marc:I didn't really know the difference.
Marc:I wasn't looking for anything.
Marc:But in terms of emotionally, because I don't think I was capable of it, but I was looking for...
Guest 2:to have sex and spend time with people so I did all right but a lot of times I don't know if you find this as a woman though I mean even if you're straight out with people like what you want I mean don't people get attached to you um I think so yeah they do but then also I feel very uh I get attached to people too yeah and then I get really um I also find and pick out really emotionally unavailable people right which is uh part of the genius of it
Marc:But that's the inner genius.
Marc:The genius you don't have any control over.
Marc:Right.
Guest 2:And I pick people who are even more unavailable than me so that I'm in a constant state of pain.
Guest 2:Nice.
Marc:That needs relief so you have to go fuck other people.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Marc:So it's just layers upon layers.
Guest 2:It's layers upon layers, and then, you know, then I got into these group sex situations, which were really bizarre.
Guest 2:Whoa, really?
Guest 2:Yeah, with porn stars.
Guest 2:Like, I would go to the armory in San Francisco, which is a big porn studio.
Guest 1:Yeah.
Guest 2:They have the big studio.
Guest 2:It's called kink.com.
Guest 2:That's the big website, and there's, like, a bunch of websites that come from it.
Guest 2:It's a giant building.
Guest 2:It's, like, a 163-year-old building that's a historical landmark.
Marc:Was it originally built for fucking?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest 2:No, it was built to house the troops.
Guest 2:Oh, it's an armory.
Marc:It's an armory.
Marc:It's a real armory.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:And so they have like hotels or a hotel set up, kind of a makeshift hotel for porn stars that stay.
Guest 2:And so you can stay there.
Guest 2:And I never got this done, but one of the things that they do is they call it a midnight takedown where you go to bed and you go to sleep and they watch you fall asleep and then they come and they fuck you.
Guest 2:Like 17 people.
Marc:And they film it?
Guest 2:Yeah, and they film it.
Guest 2:But I didn't get to do that because I locked my door.
Marc:But are you on film fucking?
Guest 2:Yeah, on some of it, yeah.
Guest 2:But not for any purposes other than our own.
Guest 2:Not for release or anything like that.
Marc:Aren't you nervous about it getting out there?
Marc:No.
Marc:Or do you care?
Guest 2:I don't really care.
Marc:Really?
Guest 2:I mean, I danced off Broadway naked for a year.
Guest 2:I mean, I don't really, that kind of stuff.
Guest 2:Also because I wasn't turned on when it was happening.
Marc:So if somebody sees it, you're like, yeah, but I wasn't enjoying it.
Guest 2:Well, I was enjoying... Some of it I really enjoyed, and some of it I thought was really not... It just was bizarre.
Guest 2:You know what I really loved is playing spin the bottle with porn stars.
Guest 2:That is really funny, to play spin the bottle with people in their 30s.
Guest 2:It's hilarious, and it's hot, and it's odd.
Yeah.
Guest 2:And it's really, I don't know, it's innocent somehow and endearing and sexy.
Guest 2:So there were some things that I really enjoyed, but the fucking and stuff, it's just a little bit more than you'd want.
Marc:Because now we're talking about it, and it seems like if you want to sexually act out and you want to go fill the void that was once filled by drugs and just feel good and connect on that level, because you're very popular in the gay community, right?
Guest 1:Yeah.
Marc:So there's a world of men out there that do that as as part of their lifestyle and have for years or something that defines a lot of the gay community, which is a lot of sex.
Marc:But, you know, it doesn't sound to me that you're that detached from it in the sense that like it doesn't sound like you can really just have sex for fun.
Guest 2:I don't think so.
Guest 2:I don't think so.
Guest 2:I mean, now that I've discovered that, all this like crazy wild stuff, it's just kind of, to me, it's about, that's more like performance or just doing it so that you could say that you did it and stuff.
Guest 2:And I don't know.
Marc:Do you think it's going to fade?
Marc:Like, do you think this is just a thing you're going through?
Guest 2:Well, I don't know.
Guest 2:I mean, I think a lot of that was also attached to it.
Guest 2:I was seeing this guy who was really, really wild and crazy, and he was turned on by me going and fucking people and telling him about it.
Guest 2:He was the most emotionally unavailable person.
Guest 2:He only wanted to have a relationship with me so that I could be sort of like his avatar and go and do these crazy things that he was not physically capable of doing.
Marc:And you'd come back and tell him about it and what, he'd jerk off or just listen?
Guest 2:Yeah, he would jerk off and listen and jerk off.
Marc:But I never touched him.
Marc:Now, where's your husband in all this?
Guest 2:Well, my husband is great.
Guest 2:My husband... He and I, we have very separate lives in that regard.
Marc:Sounds like it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you still have a... You still live with him?
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah.
Guest 2:We have a very close... We have a very, very conventional marriage in that respect.
Guest 2:We have a very, very...
Guest 2:tight connection, and it's good.
Guest 2:And it feels eternal.
Guest 2:So that's really important to me.
Marc:Why do you think, I was thinking, because I've known you for a long time, and I knew you right after you were getting popular in San Francisco.
Marc:Because I've never quite understood, there's a few women comedians that have a huge gay following.
Marc:Where does that come from?
Marc:Why specifically, like you, Kathy Griffin, Lisa Lampanelli seems to be getting one.
Marc:What is it about that audience?
Marc:What are they drawn towards?
Guest 2:I don't know.
Guest 2:I think it has to do with female strength and a kind of quirkiness.
Guest 2:I think it's also a quirky kind of beauty that is not necessarily...
Guest 2:the norm.
Marc:And ballsy too.
Guest 2:Ballsy, male, male energy.
Marc:Right.
Guest 2:It's also subject matter and also sort of what you court it.
Guest 2:I mean, for me, I've always kind of tried to court it just because all my friends are gay.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:So it just seems like a natural extension to have gay fans because that's who you are.
Marc:And you started in the gay, you started at Josie's kind of, right?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Oh, Josie's major.
Marc:In San Francisco, which is right in the cash or was, it's not anymore.
Guest 2:It's not there anymore.
Marc:And they've been with you a long time, because I was thinking about this today, that some comedians, they find kids that stay with them throughout their childhood, but then eventually go away.
Marc:Like, you know, like people like Attell or like Hedberg, you know, they really connected with all these 15 to 20 year old boys.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then, but now as they get older, these kids are married and they don't go out to comedy clubs anymore.
Marc:And I realized that the gay community, fortunately, never really grows up on some level.
Guest 2:Oh, that's true.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:And they always come out.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And they're a very loyal and very committed following.
Marc:And they love you.
Guest 2:They are so great.
Guest 2:I'm grateful for that.
Guest 2:That's a really good place to be.
Marc:And did the music thing start with the Prop 8 song you did?
Marc:Is that what got you going?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:I thought, I'm going to do that song and I'm going to play it.
Guest 2:And I wrote it.
Guest 2:I started playing guitar like three days before I performed it at the big benefit.
Guest 2:Because I just thought, oh, this needs to have a protest song.
Yeah.
Guest 2:My brother-in-law helped me.
Guest 2:He showed me all these chords and we just put it together.
Guest 2:But I actually had aspirations to do music and comedy together for a long time.
Guest 2:I did a show off-Broadway that was burlesque where I did music in there.
Guest 2:I've been trying to do it for a while.
Guest 2:I did make a rap album in 1999, which never was released, but it was pretty good.
Marc:Maybe you'll release it with the unreleased rap record with a box set.
Guest 2:With a box set, besides in Rarity.
Marc:Yeah, it's amazing, though.
Marc:But every time, I don't see you very often, but you seem to be a big star.
Marc:All of a sudden, you have a movie out.
Marc:You have a new one-person show.
Marc:You're always well-branded.
Marc:You're a fairly together business person, it seems.
Yeah.
Guest 2:Yeah, that's very important.
Guest 2:Well, I like money.
Guest 2:That's important to me.
Guest 2:It's an Asian thing.
Guest 2:It's Asian to try to figure out how you can market it and sell it and do whatever.
Marc:Yeah, the Jewish thing is all about education and insanity.
Marc:The Asian thing is about money, making money.
Guest 2:Trying to find the best way to make money doing it.
Marc:Now, when you do something like the tour where, what was the revolutionary theme?
Guest 2:um it was just it was just uh oh good that that whole thing was just about shitting which i think is so funny that's just my favorite thing to talk about i talked about it on a forum on a previous podcast it was interesting because i i had not seen you in a while and you spent a lot of time talking about a fairly horrible shitting experience
Guest 2:Well, I've had quite a few of them.
Guest 2:And yeah, that whole show was built around another terrible... But the whole point about it... Yeah.
Guest 2:There is an underlying theme.
Guest 2:It all has to do with eating disorders, which has been my major problem.
Guest 2:It's why I was an alcoholic and why I took drugs and everything...
Guest 2:It's because I have a crazy eating disorder.
Marc:I think I think that's what's at the core of mine, too.
Marc:I think, yeah, when it because my mother's anorexic and I was brought up with it.
Marc:I was brought up with this, you know, complete you.
Marc:If you felt fat or if you got a little fat, you were almost unlovable and invisible and worthless person.
Marc:And when I get right down to all of my issues, that's still that.
Marc:I think that is the deepest one.
Guest 2:Right.
Marc:Where'd yours come from?
Guest 2:Well, my mother has an eating disorder and always did.
Marc:Right.
Guest 2:And my father was a terrible womanizer.
Guest 2:And so that she blamed that sort of her body issues on his cheating when it was really just as crazy.
Guest 2:They have a great relationship now, but, you know, they really were bad for each other.
Guest 2:Like he's a sex addict and she was like an emotional food crazy, you know, so that was sort of awesome.
Guest 2:So now I'm both of them.
Marc:My father was a manic depressive womanizer and my mother had an eating disorder.
Marc:Yes, same.
Marc:So we have a lot in common.
Guest 2:Same.
Marc:Right.
Guest 2:Same.
Marc:So then you know, then it's awful.
Marc:Then you want to claw out of your body sometimes.
Guest 2:Sometimes.
Guest 2:And then you just claw into somebody else's body.
Marc:Yeah, for a while until you claw out of theirs and they leave a depleted husk and you've been fed.
Guest 2:Well, do you find that you're more a heartbreaker or heartbroken?
Guest 2:No.
Marc:I would assume that I'm more of a heartbreaker, though I've had my heart broken once or twice, and it's pretty horrible.
Guest 2:Once or twice only.
Guest 2:Once or twice only.
Marc:Majorly?
Marc:Majorly?
Marc:Like devastated?
Marc:Yeah, probably twice.
Marc:But minor heartbreaks, more so.
Marc:But I mean, full on, like I can't think or remember things or stop or get up just a couple times.
Marc:But like, you know, minor heartbreaks, yeah, a lot every day.
Marc:Every day.
Marc:I'm heartbroken now.
Guest 2:I think, why are you heartbroken now?
Marc:There's too much distance between us, Margaret.
Guest 2:But to me, everything feels like a major heartbreak.
Guest 2:And there's, you know, every two days I can't get up.
Marc:Right.
Marc:That's what I mean.
Marc:But do those count?
Marc:I mean, like a heartbreak to me, like a real broken heart where you can't like I when when my wife left me, I couldn't function like I literally had post-traumatic stress disorder.
Marc:like my memory got fucked up uh i i couldn't figure out how to you know stay focused or work uh i was just you know utterly devastated and then i began acting out sexually which is you know i i do i talk about on stage that it's it's it gets kind of dicey when you're fucking people at somebody else you know oh yeah yeah yeah yeah because you know then you got to be careful if you're a talker during sex not to go fuck her you know
Marc:They're like, what are you talking about?
Marc:What'd I say?
Marc:I mean, fuck me.
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:But so that heartbreak, yeah.
Marc:So what about you?
Marc:You a heartbreaker or a heartbroken?
Guest 2:I think I'm always heartbroken, eternally heartbroken, which is why I think people are attracted to me because my heart is always open, very open all the time.
Guest 2:But that's just because I'm so smashed up.
Marc:But isn't that a boundary issue?
Marc:Is it really an open heart or you just like you just have an open door?
Guest 2:I think I have an open door.
Marc:Yeah, because like I find that, too, if you have if you have like those weird kind of like soft boundaries, like I know crazy people are drawn to me like a magnet because I'm wired and you got to figure you are as well.
Marc:I realized this recently in life that because I grew up with a man depressive, you know, with anger problems and completely selfish parents.
Marc:i'm wired to accommodate those people i you know i can you know people that other people say like that guy's fucking nuts you know i can have him talking like a normal person and feeling very sort of heard very quickly and they're drawn to me i have that gift which is horrible do you have that i think so yeah definitely but then mine is i don't know they're crazy until way too late like i kind of allow them in i just let people in they start rummaging around and breaking the house up
Guest 2:Yeah, or they drive their car off of Mulholland Drive, and instead of calling 911, they call me.
Marc:Did that happen?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Marc:What was that about?
Guest 2:Well, she didn't call me directly.
Guest 2:She called her friend to email me, to tell me that my- At the bottom of the hill?
Guest 2:Yeah, at the bottom of the hill and off of Mulholland Drive.
Marc:And this was a woman you were involved with?
Guest 2:No, well, I was friends with her, but it was much deeper than sex.
Guest 2:It was a friendship, but it was just such a intense, intense problem because of my openness.
Marc:Right, because you couldn't let her.
Marc:That's another thing that I'm finding, the sort of like saying, I can't do this.
Marc:I have a hard time with that.
Marc:You?
Guest 2:Saying it to people?
Marc:I feel bad.
Marc:I have not had the experience of dating or being in the situation that I'm in in a long time, because I was married twice.
Marc:I was not faithful to my first wife, but my last wife I was.
Marc:I've never been sober and dating.
Marc:So I, and I married my first wife because I didn't know how to break up with somebody.
Marc:Like I thought it would be easier.
Marc:So the whole sort of like, you know, saying like, you know, this isn't working out or I can't do this or I'm not ready for it.
Marc:I'd rather just wait until it explodes than actually just set a boundary.
Guest 2:Right.
Marc:Do you have that?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:That's really hard.
Guest 2:That's really hard.
Guest 2:I don't know how to set the, I don't know either.
Guest 2:All I know is to go deeper in the relationship until I cannibalize it or something.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Until it becomes drama.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And insanity.
Marc:And then it's sort of like, get the fuck out.
Guest 2:out of here yeah it's hard to escape the allure of that drama or that I don't know but what is good is that our lives are pretty transitory at least mine is I mean mine is nomadic I'm all over the place I don't even live here really
Marc:You travel that much still?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Well, I work on a TV show in Atlanta or in Peachtree City, which is in Georgia.
Marc:You do?
Guest 2:Outside of Atlanta, yeah.
Marc:How come I don't know about it?
Guest 2:It's a show for Lifetime.
Marc:So you're there most of the time?
Guest 2:I'm there now.
Guest 2:It's going to work out from six months out of the year.
Marc:Wait, is this a reality show?
Guest 2:No.
Marc:It's a scripted show?
Marc:No, it's a drama, yeah.
Marc:It's a drama?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How long has it been on?
Guest 2:It's been on for the last... It's just the first season, but it's doing really well.
Guest 2:It's called Drop Dead Diva, so that splits my life up a lot.
Marc:Oh, I heard about this, yeah.
Guest 2:And it's about you.
Guest 2:It's actually about... It's sort of an ensemble show, but it's about a girl who is a model, and then she dies and comes back as a lawyer who is...
Guest 2:very insecure about her looks and she's super, it's just super about how women, if they don't look a certain way, they're invisible.
Guest 2:So I think it's a cool show for Lifetime.
Guest 2:It's really good.
Marc:What's your part?
Guest 2:I play the lawyer's assistant.
Guest 2:So it's a, it's like one of those, um, sort of an Ag Magnuson role and Magnuson.
Marc:Oh, she's good.
Marc:She's great.
Marc:She does some really good songs too.
Guest 2:Oh, I love it.
Guest 2:Magnuson.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Like she did, the stuff she did with, who did she work with?
Marc:The guys from King Missile like years ago?
Marc:Her band?
Marc:Bongwater.
Marc:Bongwater.
Marc:Bongwater.
Marc:That's right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She wrote Talent is a Vampire, right?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:But she's cool.
Marc:I think that's a Bongwater song.
Marc:Yeah, she did a lot of groovy stuff.
Marc:So the women coming around now to you?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:So it's different.
Guest 2:But it's a different audience because it's Lifetime.
Guest 2:So it's super conservative and it's just different.
Guest 2:But I like it.
Marc:that's great that you're I mean I feel bad as an interviewer and as somebody who's doing a show I should know your resume no but I mean you know it's such a different I've never watched a show it's a different thing I don't watch much of anything though I don't either you don't so how long when are you going back to there um in two weeks three weeks and are you gonna tour it seems like you're like you know back in the clubs a lot yeah what's going on with that
Guest 2:Well, I'm trying to do as much stand-up as I can so that I don't forget.
Guest 2:Because you know if you don't do it for a long time, you forget how to do it.
Marc:You've got to go to the gym.
Marc:Yeah, you forget how to do it.
Marc:That's how I feel about doing stand-up, even if it's for 15 minutes.
Marc:If you let that relationship you have with an audience get soft, you have to get it back.
Guest 2:Yeah, and it's humbling when you can't, you know, when you've been away from it for so long and you don't have a command of it anymore.
Marc:I know, I know.
Marc:You just feel alone up there.
Guest 2:It's really horrible.
Guest 2:How long have you gone without doing it?
Marc:Not that long.
Marc:Maybe three weeks, two weeks.
Guest 2:Oh, that's nothing.
Guest 2:That's nothing.
Marc:Yeah, no, I always go, even if I hate it.
Marc:Even when I was in the middle of all this pain, I just, I gotta go.
Guest 2:When you talk about, how does that affect your relationships?
Guest 2:You're so talking about so honestly on stage.
Guest 2:I mean, I do too, but I also pull punches.
Marc:Right.
Guest 2:And won't reveal certain things and definitely don't name names.
Guest 2:Right.
Marc:Well, the trick to me was really, I don't know if I pulled a lot of punches, but I made sure to take responsibility for my part in it in the way of, I didn't want to be one of those guys that just was like a fuck her guy or women are bitches.
Marc:So I tried to temper it with the fact that
Marc:you know, I'm pretty fucked up.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So, and I meet the balance that way.
Marc:And I don't, I don't, I don't attack her that much, despite what she may think.
Marc:I don't, you know, I don't, I don't take cheap shots.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:Well, you never do.
Guest 2:I mean, you're very, what's great about your comedy is that you're so unapologetically truthful about everything and not, you don't come make yourself out to be a hero.
Guest 1:Yeah.
Guest 1:That's the best part.
Marc:No hero.
Guest 1:No heroism.
Marc:No, I've never really thought about it that way.
Marc:But I think that's I think it's the way to go.
Marc:It's not as satisfying, I think, to some people in the sense that, like, I think men who are angry want you to represent that anger for them and not shoulder any of the burden on yourself.
Marc:So it puts people in a sort of a weird place where it's like, he is kind of an asshole, you know, or he is kind of, you know, like it's not it's it's it's not black or white.
Guest 2:Yeah, it's really good.
Guest 2:Oh, I want to tell you the story about how I heard about you.
Marc:Before you met me.
Marc:Before I met you.
Marc:Before I followed you around all night on Coke in San Francisco in a hotel.
Marc:That was the funniest thing.
Marc:Do you remember that?
Marc:Here's how I remember it.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:We were all up there taping that comics come home thing or something.
Marc:So there was like 15 comics staying in that one hotel.
Marc:And everybody was fucked up.
Marc:And we were hanging around partying.
Marc:And everyone was all over the place and drinking and running around in rooms and stuff.
Marc:And I just got it in my head that we were going to hang out.
Marc:We were going to make out.
Marc:We were going to fuck.
Marc:I don't know what we were going to do.
Marc:And I just kept following you around.
Marc:And then finally, it must have been the middle of the night, I follow you to your room, we go inside, and we kiss for maybe like two minutes, and you stop and go, is that what you wanted?
Marc:And I go, I guess, okay.
Marc:And then you went to bed, and I left.
Guest 2:I don't know why I was so mean to you about that.
Guest 2:I mean, I always liked you.
Guest 2:I don't know, I think, I don't know what, I was in a bad mood or something.
Guest 2:It was weird.
Marc:I must have been drunk.
Marc:I don't know what your type is.
Marc:Do you have a type?
Guest 2:I don't.
Marc:Because I know you went out, I know some people you went out with, and I know some people that you've been attracted to.
Marc:How do you know?
Marc:Only a couple.
Marc:And I've seen your husband.
Guest 2:Oh, yes, yes.
Marc:Okay, and I know you went out with Scott.
Marc:Ackerman, right?
Guest 2:Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Marc:And I know that, you know, you were kind of fond of Jim, who looks kind of like Scott and kind of like your husband in a way.
Marc:They all have a similar sort of... Jim Short?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Oh, I love... Jim's my... That's my... Him I love.
Guest 2:I love him.
Marc:Yeah, and there's a similarity between those three men.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:They're sort of tall and... I don't even know how to describe them, but there is a type there.
Guest 2:They're funny.
Marc:Okay, is it funny?
Guest 2:I think it's funny, but I think it's also just, I don't know.
Guest 2:I don't know.
Marc:All right, so how'd you hear about me?
Guest 2:Oh, well, this was many, many years ago.
Guest 2:I think this was longer than 15 years ago.
Guest 2:This may have been 18 or 19 years ago, I think, a very, very long time ago.
Marc:What, would that have been, 90?
Guest 2:Uh-huh.
Marc:Okay.
Guest 2:And I had just come to Los Angeles and I was friends with a girl who was a publicist.
Guest 2:Oh, Stacey Nelson?
Guest 2:Is that her name?
Guest 2:She was dating you.
Guest 2:Oh, my God.
Guest 2:And she was talking all about you, about you're such a good fuck and how, oh, she loved you.
Guest 2:And it was like so good and so great.
Guest 2:And it was just, you understand?
Guest 2:And she was really, I was very naive then.
Guest 2:I didn't really know anything.
Guest 2:And I was kind of wide out about it.
Guest 2:all sorts of people talking to me about sex and you know I was real sort of just taking in this information like oh I can't believe she's telling me all this you know and then she found out that she had a girlfriend in New York and she was so furious and I remember her talking to you on a headset
Guest 2:She was yelling at you and she said that you raped me.
Guest 2:You raped me.
Guest 2:And then I was really scared because I was like, oh my God, he's a rapist.
Guest 2:And I saw you and I was really nervous.
Guest 2:I met you afterward.
Guest 2:I met you like you had stayed at her house or something.
Guest 2:And then I met you right after she called you a rapist.
Guest 2:And I was like, he's a rapist.
Marc:That was so fucking horrible, that situation.
Marc:That woman was like, she was a publisher.
Marc:She represented at that time.
Marc:She had like a couple comments.
Marc:Dana Gould, Mike Becker, and a couple people.
Marc:And I met her through, because she used to hang around with the kids, you know, with Dana and that crew.
Marc:And I was only out here to, you know, for like, I wasn't living out here.
Marc:I'd come out to do some work and I met her.
Marc:And the way I met her was that she was showing everybody her nipple piercings.
Guest 1:Uh-huh, uh-huh.
Marc:And that was 1990 or something.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:So she's showing everybody her tit, you know, and her nipple.
Marc:And she talked like Barbara, like, what's her name?
Marc:The nanny.
Marc:What's her name?
Guest 2:Oh, Fran Drescher.
Marc:Fran Drescher.
Marc:Hi, how are you?
Marc:She's from Brooklyn.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Marc:You know, Stacey Nelson.
Marc:So she's showing me her boob.
Marc:And apparently I was the only idiot who tugged on it.
Marc:uh-huh so somehow that rang the bell and i ended up you know hanging out at her house you know because i wasn't staying anywhere and she i think she got me on the a-list that that week they were taping and she got me on so i'm at her house and we maybe hung out for like a week in my recollection i was broken up with the woman i was with right who was actually in san francisco i think uh because i just moved there it must have been 90
Marc:Is that possible?
Marc:91 or... Yeah.
Marc:91 or 92.
Marc:So we have this hangout and she's like compulsively sexual to the point where it's like she couldn't go to sleep without having sex.
Marc:And it was like, it was sort of a chore.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I did what I had to do.
Marc:I mean, I like staying at her house.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But...
Marc:It was a nice house.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And but but it got very intense very quickly is one of those things.
Marc:It's very hard to come back from that once you start with that sexualizing.
Guest 1:Right.
Marc:And then all of a sudden you're in this thing.
Marc:You may not know the person that well.
Marc:So we but we did hang out for I can't remember the time frame, but it wasn't that long.
Marc:So then I get back together with my girlfriend, who I ended up marrying.
Marc:That became my first wife.
Marc:And all of a sudden, I start hearing this shit.
Marc:Dave Rath comes up to me and says, I got the press release.
Marc:Apparently, you're an asshole.
Marc:And then it goes on for a month or so.
Marc:And I didn't know she was saying that stuff.
Marc:And Laura Keitlinger, of all people, who I wasn't even that close to, but we all know each other, kind of, calls me up and says, Stacy Nelson is telling people that you raped her.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:So I call her up and I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?
Marc:I didn't rape you.
Marc:You can't tell people I raped you.
Marc:And she goes, that's how I felt.
Marc:And I'm like, well, that's fucking different.
Marc:And it was fucking awful.
Marc:Like it was like, it was one of those things where like there are these junctures in my career where like I was about to like, you know, sort of make a transition into something else and hang out with everybody.
Marc:And then this fucking horrendous mouth of a person does this horrible thing.
Marc:And I, I,
Guest 2:yeah never fuck a publicist that that's all that's the only thing i learned from that well see um but it was really funny because i was just like i couldn't figure out that whole thing about how you how how is he a rapist like i couldn't figure out how he was i was like well why did you ask her yeah and she said it's because you um because you under the god you you fucked her under the guise of somebody else which means that you raped her
Marc:That's fucking crazy.
Guest 2:Which is crazy.
Guest 2:And I was like, oh.
Marc:That is crazy.
Guest 2:I didn't understand.
Marc:I don't know what happened to her.
Marc:I think she's long gone.
Guest 2:She now practices Chinese medicine and puts needles into people.
Marc:Is that true?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Where?
Guest 2:I don't know.
Marc:How did you know that?
Guest 2:Because she got mad at me because I fired her.
Guest 2:She became my publicist.
Guest 2:And then I had to fire her because I had to work with somebody else because I got a huge firm to represent me.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:But she was so furious she didn't speak to me for six years.
Marc:Did she tell people you raped her?
Guest 2:No.
Guest 2:But then this is why I also kind of hate AA because I had to be really thorough about my nine stuff.
Marc:Oh, right.
Marc:So you made an amends to her?
Guest 2:I made an amends to her.
Marc:You tracked her down?
Guest 2:Yeah, I found her.
Guest 2:That's how I found out that she became an acupuncturist.
Marc:Fuck, I don't know.
Marc:Maybe I got to make a new list because I never made an amends to her.
Guest 2:Well, you shouldn't have to.
Guest 2:I mean, she sounds like she was actually worse.
Guest 2:She should make an amends to you.
Marc:Isn't there a statute of limitations on those amends?
Guest 2:I know.
Guest 2:I mean, that's, I just, I sort of hate AA for that because I was so thorough about it.
Guest 2:I mean, are you thorough about?
Marc:I got to do a new one since my divorce.
Marc:I mean, and oddly, that's really the genius of AA is in a lot of ways is that step.
Marc:because it's something that almost everyone should do, whether they're an alcoholic or not.
Marc:The whole idea of the moral inventory, and that's really based on a business inventory, that the genius of the actual, like, who am I pissed off at?
Marc:Why am I pissed off at them?
Marc:What did it affect in me?
Marc:And what is my part in it?
Marc:That if you do that thoroughly, you basically get a very clear diagram of exactly what kind of asshole you are.
Guest 2:Right, right, right.
Marc:And how, you know, which character defects or character flaws are running your life and making you an asshole.
Marc:So it's pretty fascinating.
Marc:But I need to do another one.
Marc:I don't know how I'm even going to approach my second ex-wife.
Marc:I mean, I did a lot of amends already.
Marc:Like, there's only a few outstanding, but I don't know how I'm going to make that apology.
Marc:Because, like, I do owe her a fairly...
Marc:deep amends but i'm still so resentful about how she handled the divorce that like that clouds the ability to do it yeah it's okay is it yeah it's okay when you're ready you're ready doesn't it's just i don't think it i think it you know shouldn't force it whenever happens when it happens you know yeah oh so that's interesting so that's how you met me
Guest 2:Yeah, but then I was like, oh, I felt bad for you, actually.
Guest 2:Because I was like, well, that's horrible because that's not right to tell people that he's a rapist because it's not true.
Marc:It's like almost 20 years ago already.
Marc:But that turned really shitty.
Marc:Do you sweep with girls?
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Marc:I like to.
Marc:And is it that, is it, have it always been that way?
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah, I've always been pretty, pretty bisexual.
Guest 2:Sometimes, it depends on the, usually like really butch women and also women who are very dominant and also women who are transitioning to male bodies.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:So female to male transsexuals mostly.
Marc:yeah that kind of stuff kind of tweaks me out really well i mean i i guess i don't know anybody personally like you know like i don't have a lot of friends you know i have you know a few and none of them are transgender people and so like i really don't like i i don't it i don't it it doesn't bother me but to me it's it's pretty bold and pretty uh bizarre
Guest 2:It is.
Guest 2:It's different.
Guest 2:I mean, it's different.
Guest 2:It's like you're taking hormones to change your body into something else.
Guest 2:But, I mean, a lot of the people that I knew were transitioning have always been men.
Guest 2:They're very male energy.
Guest 2:The women.
Guest 2:Yeah, just dykes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest 2:You know, who just might as well be men anyway.
Marc:How come some dykes have, like, facial hair?
Guest 2:that's um that that has something to do with tea injecting tea indexing testosterone okay so that doesn't just happen sometimes it happens you know sometimes women are pretty hair suit and if they decide to grow it and if you shave it it'll grow back thicker so they'll cultivate that look and you think so so you think bisexuality is what it is there's no do you have a preference
Guest 2:um when i that when i go through kind of a gay phase or when i'm really into women or um like this is one girl i'm just crazy about but she doesn't live here when but when we're together and um i feel so powerful like just so like i don't need men we don't need men we don't need men all it feels really good all right so like you know we win
Guest 2:Well, for women in comedy, we're just so outnumbered and we so need guys to survive in so many ways and socially and just whatever.
Guest 2:It's just always been like that.
Guest 2:So when you can go into a universe where you just need women and women for sex, that's just unbelievable.
Guest 2:But that sort of proves that I'm not gay because I have so much invested in patriarchy.
Guest 2:Right.
Guest 2:But it's a beautiful vacation from patriarchy.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So your preference is men?
Guest 2:Sexually, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest 2:But then, you know, this one girl that I really like, it just gets really complicated because she's very, because she has a lot of male energy even though she looks very female.
Guest 2:And so it's like she's a man in a woman's body in a female kind of, it's hard to explain.
Guest 2:But she's super mean.
Guest 2:I like that.
Marc:You like mean?
Mm-hmm.
Marc:Now, what at what point like there was a point where you were pretty mainstream and you had a lot of support also from the Korean community.
Marc:Have they abandoned you?
Marc:No, not really.
Guest 2:Definitely a matriarch there.
Marc:But isn't it a more conservative world?
Guest 2:Of course.
Guest 2:I mean, they just don't understand what I do.
Marc:But they don't judge you?
Guest 2:No, no.
Marc:That's pretty amazing, isn't it?
Guest 2:Well, it's because I'm older and because I do a lot for the community in terms of showing up for events and helping people and doing charity stuff and being around.
Guest 2:And so I'm really an icon in the community in that respect.
Guest 2:So there's no judgment.
Marc:They forgive you for your transgressions.
Marc:All the weirdness.
Guest 2:All the craziness.
Guest 2:I mean, it just sort of doesn't matter because I've always just done whatever I wanted to.
Marc:Right, but do you find when you're in that world that you sort of become a different person?
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest 2:It's not always the same.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest 2:It's good.
Marc:And your parents are cool with it?
Guest 2:Oh, they love it.
Marc:And how's your Christian brother?
Guest 2:He's fine.
Guest 2:Is he still Christian?
Marc:He's not Christian anymore.
Marc:That was just a passing phase?
Marc:That was a passing phase.
Guest 2:But he was really Christian for a while, which is weird.
Guest 2:That happens to a lot of, I think, Asian American kids, especially Korean kids, who just don't know what to do.
Guest 2:You know, we don't have a lot of visibility in society.
Guest 2:And so you don't know what to do.
Guest 2:Like, what do you be?
Guest 2:And the church is one place to be something or be somebody.
Marc:You could either be a Christian or you could be in a club off Lancashire setting your skin on fire with somebody.
Guest 2:Or you could go race cars down in Orange County.
Marc:Who did that?
Guest 2:All Asian kids do that.
Marc:They do that?
Marc:What, those little Hondas that they fix up?
Guest 2:Yeah, they race their little cars.
Marc:It's pretty fascinating to me.
Marc:I notice that you're doing your mom again on stage.
Guest 2:I always do.
Marc:Do you always?
Guest 2:I sort of always do, yeah.
Marc:It's always there?
Guest 2:Well, it's something that I think is a voice of, it's just Asian-ness and the voice of whatever is ancient in me, that sort of questioning all the stuff that I do and what I'm doing.
Guest 2:And I'm really close to my parents, so something that's always in my head are things that they say.
Guest 2:I just wrote a book forward for a website called mymomisafob.com.
Guest 2:They have a book out and
Guest 2:What's a fob?
Guest 2:Fresh off the boat.
Marc:Okay.
Guest 2:And it's just emails and pictures and different communications from your mom who's a fob.
Guest 2:And it's a celebration of the awkwardness of being an immigrant and celebrating that.
Guest 2:So I think that's always going to be part of what I do and who I am.
Marc:And when I talked to you the other night, you said you wanted to age a certain way.
Guest 2:I wanted to age like, I want to be really dignified like Amy Tan.
Guest 2:That's why I could probably only get fucked for the next maybe 10 years or something, realistically, or just have to fuck in secret.
Guest 2:Because I want to be really, I want to be really thin.
Guest 2:And I want to have like kind of a very sharp, short bob haircut that's gray.
Guest 2:And I want to wear sort of Mandarin collar shirts all the time and be really, really Amy Tan about it.
Guest 2:and be like uh do you want to teach and teach do a lot of workshops a lot of workshops and a lot of um do you want to do office hours i would have an office i would you know that that point then i'll be you know at a university or start teaching any school although i don't think i can do that because i don't even i don't even have a high school diploma do you know that no i never even took a gd do you have a high school diploma
Marc:Yes, I do.
Marc:I think it's right there on that shelf behind the fuck thing.
Marc:You see the little framed fuck on the top shelf there?
Guest 2:Oh, there you do have a high school.
Guest 2:I see that.
Marc:That's my high school diploma, I think.
Guest 2:High school diploma.
Marc:I don't know where my college diploma is, but that is my high school diploma.
Marc:Where did you go to college?
Marc:Boston University.
Guest 2:Oh, Comedy College.
Guest 2:Or is that Emerson?
Marc:That's Emerson.
Marc:I first met Dave Cross when we were in college.
Marc:A million years ago.
Guest 2:So then you know Janine from then, too.
Marc:I know Janine from Catch a Rising Star.
Marc:So I met Janine, say, maybe 89 or no, maybe 88 when she was in Boston working at the health club.
Marc:She was a receptionist at the Joy of Movement in Kenmore Square, the Smoking Health Club reception.
Marc:Are you guys still friends?
Guest 2:I don't see her at all.
Marc:She's not here that much.
Guest 2:She's not here.
Guest 2:I never see her.
Guest 2:I saw her briefly at South by Southwest.
Guest 2:She said that you are hot, but you are surly motherfucker.
Marc:Recently?
Guest 2:No, no, she said that back then about people.
Guest 2:Yeah, he's a fucking surly motherfucker, like that.
Marc:She was very helpful, and we became sort of close because of Air America.
Marc:I think we're close, as close as she can be to people.
Marc:But it's weird.
Marc:We never even became a thing where there was never any sex thing ever.
Guest 2:Well, she's not very.
Marc:Maybe I just didn't see it, but I doubt it.
Marc:I just always I have a weird thing with Janine in that when I'm around her, I feel protective of her.
Marc:Like I don't feel that with many people, but when I'm around her, I want to make sure she's taken care of.
Guest 2:It's nice.
Marc:It's odd for me.
Guest 2:That's good.
Marc:Like if I go out and we're out somewhere and I, you know, if someone's, you know, getting too close, you know, I run interference.
Marc:Like I literally become like a, like sort of a bodyguardish kind of person in my mind.
Marc:Like, you know, if some, if fans sort of start to, you know, suffocate her, I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Marc:You know, I just feel myself doing that.
Marc:It's weird.
Guest 2:I can't picture that.
Guest 2:I don't know.
Guest 2:I don't know why.
Marc:I mean, I don't like it's not like aggressive or no, no.
Marc:But like I naturally like we've done shows together.
Marc:We were up at Cobbs together and we do, you know, co-headlining things together.
Marc:And like I literally like if, you know, there are people out front, they're like, you know, we want to can we talk to Janine?
Marc:I'm like, I'll go find out.
Marc:You know, like I do this thing where it's like Ginny and there's some people.
Marc:Like I literally become like sort of like this weird handler in my head.
Marc:And I don't know, it's natural.
Marc:And I don't feel it, it doesn't happen with other people.
Guest 2:That's sweet.
Marc:Yeah, I guess it is.
Marc:I can do it for you.
Marc:I mean, if you bring me on the road for you, with you, I can try to run interference.
Marc:How are you with fans?
Marc:Do you?
Guest 2:I'm good with it.
Guest 2:I mean, it's good because I kind of tend to see the same people over and over again, which is cool.
Guest 2:I think it's, I don't know.
Guest 2:I usually, when I'm kind of doing a lot of time, or if it's like a club where you have to do two shows, then I just try to bail because I'm so tired.
Guest 2:Doing those Friday, Saturday, two-show things is so hard.
Marc:You still do clubs?
Marc:Yeah, yeah, all the time.
Marc:Small theaters still?
Guest 2:I try to do both.
Guest 2:I try to do everything, you know, whatever I can.
Guest 2:It doesn't matter, you know, whatever.
Marc:You just want to get on stage.
Guest 2:Yeah, I don't care where.
Guest 2:I talked to Russell Peters on Thursday.
Guest 2:You know who he is?
Guest 2:He's great.
Marc:I know who he is.
Marc:I know he's the biggest star in the world of comedy.
Guest 2:He's incredible.
Marc:And I don't know his work really.
Marc:I've seen maybe pieces of it.
Marc:But I know he is an international superstar comedically.
Guest 2:Yeah, it's like he was talking about playing Madison Square Garden for two nights, selling it out, and then playing Radio City on the weekend.
Guest 2:So that's like what Largo, if Largo is Madison Square Garden, then what the little room at Largo is like, you know, Radio City.
Guest 2:I mean, that's sort of like his weekend.
Marc:That's fucking, I can't even imagine.
Guest 2:It's outrageous.
Guest 2:I mean, it's great.
Marc:Who is the audience?
Guest 2:He said it's geeks.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:I mean, he does sort of an Indian thing, right?
Guest 2:Well, he is Indian.
Marc:Right.
Guest 2:He's Indian-Canadian.
Guest 2:But yeah, he's got such a tremendously huge following, and I think that's a really cool thing to aspire to.
Marc:I have some Nerdcock shirts.
Marc:Do you want a Nerdcock shirt?
Marc:Yes, I like it.
Marc:It just says Nerdcock on it.
Marc:Oh, that sounds cool.
Marc:It's a thing that I'm marketing.
Guest 2:I like Nerdcock.
Guest 2:I mean, Nerdcock is the best to get, I think, don't you think?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I'm not really a nerd, but I'm not really a rock cock either.
Marc:I'm in the middle.
Guest 2:Yeah, what are you sort of, what is that?
Marc:I think I'm just me.
Marc:I've never really been a nerd, but I've always been sort of a socially, I've always been outside of things, but I can integrate pretty well with just about anybody, which I don't think nerds can do.
Guest 2:No, but nerds like you.
Marc:They're starting to.
Marc:I think they're coming around only because of my place in the world of comedy, but I don't know.
Marc:I don't think I'm a nerd hero.
Guest 2:I think you're getting that.
Guest 2:I mean, there's something to aspire to.
Guest 2:I mean, I think they'll be really, really good.
Marc:Well, I did finally surrender to these horn-rimmed glasses, which, you know, I've always... I like them.
Marc:They're good.
Marc:All right.
Marc:I've always worn glasses, but I really wasn't going to do this.
Marc:And I did because, you know, oddly, it becomes the only thing that's available.
Marc:Like you can't get, you know, you're going to get some variation of this frame.
Marc:That's all that you can buy anymore.
Guest 2:Yeah, true.
Marc:Well, I'd like to, before we go, I'd like to know what the record's going to be because you're very involved in making it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What are the songs called?
Marc:Who are you working with?
Marc:Is it a full band?
Guest 2:It's many different bands.
Guest 2:It's called Show Dependent and it's all different genres of music.
Guest 2:I worked with Tegan and Sarah.
Guest 2:I worked with John Bryan.
Guest 2:I worked with Grant Lee Phillips, a lot of people from Largo.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:I worked with Garrison Starr.
Marc:All for the one record.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest 2:Wow, that's pretty big.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:I worked with Andrew Bird, who's my idol, as John Bryan is my idol.
Guest 2:John Bryan sort of became my guitar teacher, too.
Marc:That's a hell of a guitar teacher.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Marc:He's kind of a genius.
Guest 2:He is.
Marc:So it's pretty earnest music.
Marc:It's not funny, all of it.
Guest 2:it's all sort of trying I'm trying to make it all funny but at the same time it's about elevating the form which I think is it's possible to do it without song parodies and to do it without yeah song parodies are not great they can be I guess name one
Guest 2:Craigslist.
Guest 2:I guess I just don't listen to it.
Guest 2:Well, I love Weird Al Yankovic and I think he's such a great musician and such a great, I don't know, he just imagines things.
Guest 2:His world is amazing.
Guest 2:But I wanted to do something that utilized the friends that I had in music and my own love of it for the last 41 years.
Guest 2:I mean, I've been such a music fan
Guest 2:I maybe would have gone into it if it hadn't been for comedy.
Guest 2:Yeah, I mean, I play.
Marc:I play right here in the garage.
Marc:What do you play?
Marc:I play guitar, and I'm okay, pretty good at it.
Marc:I'm actually, for what I do, I'm good at it, but I don't play publicly.
Marc:Singing in public terrifies me.
Guest 1:Oh, yeah.
Marc:To me, karaoke is the most terrifying thing in the world.
Marc:What?
Marc:Is that weird?
Guest 1:Why?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I can't figure it out.
Marc:Because I feel, I think, given that I'm so honest on stage in my comedy, there's something even more vulnerable to me about singing.
Marc:True.
Marc:And to me, when people sing, if I see a musical, which I don't do a lot, I am overwhelmed with emotion just at the fact that so many people are singing.
Marc:But I don't get that with rock music.
Marc:But when I see theater and people sing, to me it's so vulnerable.
Marc:And I don't have the trust.
Marc:And I think I've had a couple of really bad experiences where it was so embarrassing when I sang.
Marc:And I don't have a bad voice.
Marc:I was much younger.
Marc:But...
Marc:I don't trust it.
Marc:And then over the last year or so, I have sung in front of people a couple of times, like just individually.
Marc:I work on songs.
Marc:There's a few songs that get me through things.
Marc:I play guitar a lot to voice feelings for myself and sing for the same reason.
Marc:And I did let some people see it.
Marc:And I find that like, you know, if I'm alone, I have a fairly full voice and it's very expressive and it's very real.
Marc:But when I'm in front of somebody, I can feel the constriction a little bit.
Marc:I sing from my throat a little.
Guest 1:Yeah.
Marc:Because like I can't like lose myself in it.
Marc:And then I'm afraid to lose myself in front of... Because I also think that people have certain expectations about me or they see me a certain way.
Marc:Like people who know me know I'm just like a hypersensitive fucking softie.
Marc:But a lot of other people are like, Maren...
Marc:You know, I don't want to buckle to their expectations.
Marc:I don't want to get up there and sing and cry in front of the Marin people.
Guest 2:Oh, that's beautiful.
Guest 2:I mean, I think that's beautiful, though.
Guest 2:I don't know.
Guest 2:I mean, whatever you're comfortable with.
Marc:I have to find a safe environment.
Guest 2:Well, yeah, a safe environment to sing.
Marc:An anonymous coffee house where I just go sing.
Guest 2:It is joyous when you can finally figure out how to do it and you can really connect that way.
Guest 2:It's beautiful.
Marc:Yeah, well, there's some people that have musical guy inside of them, like Dave Cross.
Marc:Dave Cross is a guy who can just sort of like, I'm breaking into song now.
Marc:And he has that, there's almost like a theatricality to it.
Marc:There's a distance from the ability to sing, like to sing in a funny way, to make a character out of a song.
Marc:I can't do that with anything.
Marc:Everything is sort of life or death for me.
Guest 2:Right, right.
Marc:So if I'm going to sing, it's going to be very raw.
Marc:It's going to be very real.
Marc:It's going to be like my comedy.
Marc:It's going to make people go like, whoa.
Marc:And like, I wish I had the distance, you know, to become a persona.
Marc:Even comedically, sometimes I envy people that have a character.
Guest 2:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because like all I've been working towards is being me.
Marc:That's hard enough.
Guest 2:But that's the brilliance of you is that you are so unapologetically you and that you can articulate you in that regard, which is the genius of you.
Guest 2:That's who you are and that's really important.
Marc:But that's the envy I have of people who can just break into song and not think twice about it.
Marc:I saw Scott Ackerman once do karaoke and I was like, oh my God.
Marc:And he sang a difficult song.
Marc:He sang a Radiohead song in a very sort of falsetto, sort of sweet voice.
Marc:And it was very moving to me.
Marc:And then he got off and he was just Scott.
Marc:And it didn't even bother him.
Marc:I'm like, you just did that up there.
Marc:It's getting me choked up now.
Guest 2:Well, he's a big music fan.
Guest 2:And he's sang in bands.
Guest 2:Oh, so he has no fear about it.
Marc:He doesn't have a judgment about it.
Marc:I have a real stage fright about it.
Marc:And I think about it a lot.
Marc:I have to get this done.
Guest 2:Yeah, you should try it.
Marc:Where?
Marc:Where do I do that?
Marc:Where would you try it?
Marc:Do I try karaoke?
Guest 2:Well, karaoke is so, I don't know, karaoke is sort of, it's sort of cheap, you know?
Guest 2:It's kind of like what?
Marc:I almost did it in my last one-man show about the divorce.
Marc:I almost sang two songs, and I didn't.
Marc:Like, I was very close.
Marc:I was working on that.
Guest 2:That's cool.
Marc:But I didn't do it.
Guest 2:But that's funny in itself, the journey of that, of just discovering the journey.
Guest 2:I mean, to add that into a show where you're really going to move yourself out of your comfort level and do something like that, that's so risky.
Marc:Maybe I should write a new show called Mark's Going to Try and Sing in Front of You.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:I mean, seriously, that's a good experiment to start with.
Guest 2:I always think we should challenge ourselves and make things difficult for ourselves so that we can fall in love with it again.
Marc:Maybe I should do that.
Marc:Maybe I should do like talk about my stage fright.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Marc:And write jokes around it and then say like, now I'm going to try and sing.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And then talk about how fearlessness is so much a part of who you are and honesty is so much a part of who you are.
Guest 2:Why am I so dishonest or fearful about this one thing?
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And examine that because that's an interesting juxtaposition to who you are as a comic.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Guest 2:And if you play, that's, I mean, there's no reason to play by yourself.
Guest 2:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, I've been saying that about a lot of things.
Guest 2:But that's okay.
Guest 2:I think if you have an intense fear of something like that, you should explore what it is.
Guest 2:There's a lot of funny stuff in there.
Marc:Okay, I'm going to do it.
Guest 2:Try it.
Marc:And I'm looking forward to your record.
Guest 2:It's brilliant.
Marc:I'm sure.
Guest 2:It's actually brilliant.
Marc:Thank you, Margaret Cho.
Guest 2:Thank you.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:Okay, for those of you in the immediate area of Los Angeles, the improv.
Marc:This will be tomorrow night if you're listening to this on Monday.
Marc:That is tomorrow night.
Marc:What would the date be?
Marc:It's Tuesday night.
Marc:Shit.
Marc:What day is it now?
Marc:Where am I?
Marc:I can't feel my hands.
Marc:Tuesday, the 16th of February, I'm going to be on a show.
Marc:I'm going to be doing Comedy Death Ray, which is a popular show at Upright Citizens Brigade Theater.
Marc:That's an 830 show, I believe.
Marc:But I'm also doing a show at the Improv for my buddy Glenn Wool.
Marc:He's having a record release party for his CD, Let Your Hands Go.
Marc:And that should be a good show.
Marc:It's going to be me and Glenn and Morgan Murphy, a couple other people.
Marc:Matt Bronger, who you've heard on this show, will be there.
Marc:And I also want to put this out there.
Marc:We are...
Marc:The live WTF taping at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater here in Los Angeles will be February 19th at 8 o'clock p.m.
Marc:It's a girls night out show.
Marc:How do you like that?
Marc:That's so cheesy.
Marc:I'm going to have a bunch of chicks on to do funny.
Marc:Marilyn Rice Cub, Lori Kilmartin, Jackie Cation.
Marc:I will have Jim Earl to bring everything down in a funny way.
Marc:And I will have Eddie Pepitone as well to punctuate the evening and bring everything up in an angry way.
Marc:So get tickets for that.
Marc:Upright Citizens Brigade Theater in Los Angeles.
Marc:I don't know how you get there, but get there.
Marc:Those tickets usually go pretty quickly.
Marc:I wanted to address a couple of emails.
Marc:One is basically saying someone wants me to tell a bombing story about when I bombed.
Marc:The email said something along the lines of...
Marc:You know, everyone's been a deer caught in the headlights.
Marc:Yeah, but I've been a deer who's been hit by a truck.
Marc:So I have one and it involves being sent home from a country.
Marc:And I will tell that story if you remind me.
Marc:Some of you have heard it.
Marc:If anyone was a fan of Break Room Live, I'm sure I've told it a couple of times in different places.
Marc:But yes, I was sent home from Australia.
Marc:So I will do that story in an upcoming show.
Marc:We've got a lot of great upcoming shows, by the way.
Marc:Brendan Small from Metalocalypse is coming in, and I'm putting my guitar out for that one.
Marc:Yeah, I'm going to have a guitar available for that one.
Marc:Glenn Wool, as I said, will be on the show.
Marc:Greg Proops.
Marc:Yeah, a lot of good shows coming up.
Marc:But here's an email I wanted to read because this is relating to the last show.
Marc:This is from from Jack.
Marc:Don't know who Jack is.
Marc:What the fuck dot dot dot frog.
Marc:Are you kidding me?
Marc:Of course, you remember frog was my guest.
Marc:He he was the medical marijuana dispensary proprietor.
Marc:Frog, are you kidding me?
Marc:This guy didn't want to have a serious conversation about pot.
Marc:He just wanted to plug his dispensary.
Marc:That's if he even really owns one.
Marc:This interview showed a really fucked up side of the medical marijuana debate.
Marc:I mean, come on.
Marc:A prescription written on an envelope?
Marc:Your body doesn't produce enough THC?
Marc:This guy has no idea what the fuck he was talking about.
Marc:It makes all responsible smokers look like druggies and dispensaries like legalized drug lords fighting each other for customers.
Marc:There was no talk about the actual effects of marijuana, the smear campaigns that got it illegalized, or the fact that California dispensaries are regularly raided by the DEA.
Marc:Yeah, you know, I got to tell you, I'm sorry about that.
Marc:You know, I mean, I got to get a booker.
Marc:I've just had...
Marc:A string of awkward luck with guests.
Marc:And even when I do my research.
Marc:But thank you for your sentiment.
Marc:I understand where you're coming from.
Marc:We'll try and explore the other side of that issue.
Marc:And I appreciate you listening.
Marc:Okay, that's it.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed the Cho Show.
Marc:Did I just whistle?
Marc:Did my teeth just whistle?
Marc:Whistle?
Marc:Whistle?
Marc:Now I'm going to be self-conscious.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed the Cho Show.
Marc:It did whistle.
Marc:What the fuck is wrong with my mouth?
Marc:But that's it for today.
Marc:I hope you had a good time.
Marc:Go to punchlinemagazine.com for all of your comedy-related interests.
Marc:Please go to WTF Pod because we're putting videos up there now.
Marc:Yes, you can watch videos.
Marc:And you can order your Nerdcock shirt or your WTF shirt or anything else you want to do.
Marc:You can follow us on Twitter.
Marc:You can give me money.
Marc:Give me some money.
Marc:Me and Brendan are trying to make a living.
Marc:with this entertaining thing that we're doing.
Marc:I don't want to be glib about it.
Marc:I really appreciate all the donations coming in and the subscribers, and we're going to broaden some of the possibilities for that in the very near future.
Marc:JustCoffee.coop, of course you know that.
Marc:All that being said, I will talk to you next time.
Marc:Be careful.
Marc:Be as good as possible.
Marc:Don't hurt yourself.
Marc:And if you've got a spare second, try to be grateful for what you have.
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