Episode 467 - Morgan Murphy
Guest:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fucking ears?
Marc:What the fuck nicks?
Marc:I am Mark Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for joining me.
Marc:Thank you for being here today on the show.
Marc:Morgan Murphy, the comedic talent that is Morgan Murphy, a stand-up comedian and a comedy writer, someone I've known a long time, someone who...
Marc:We have a bit of a past.
Marc:Have not been able to talk to her here in the garage for a few different reasons, but it's happened.
Marc:She was on one live episode a while back, and now she's back, and it was nice to catch up.
Marc:and uh and heal it's and heal it's good to have that opportunity in life it's good to have that opportunity to to heal to admit your mistakes to ask for forgiveness to give yourself a break somehow or to to at least take responsibility for uh for things that's the grown-up way
Marc:You want to live with your heart, just a simmering chunk of coal, an ember, a glowing ember of self-righteousness and contempt and resentment?
Marc:Or do you want to just maybe throw a little water on those rocks, get a little steam going, get a little inner schvitz going?
Marc:going to kind of purge, purge yourself of the pain of spite, rambling, man, rambling and avoiding the reality, avoiding the reality.
Marc:The fact that Philip Seymour Hoffman died of a heroin overdose yesterday, the sadness of
Marc:of drug addiction taking lives the struggle of the drug addict to to stay off the shit to not get locked back into the groove where choices diminish where reason
Marc:no longer applies, where the will is compromised and tethered to a malignant desire.
Marc:Horrendous.
Marc:It's a horrendous loss.
Marc:It's a horrendous loss when anybody dies tragically in almost any way.
Marc:Why not just say any way?
Marc:But when you know somebody's been fighting, I guess at one time was a, nah, let's say all times, a good fight against that particular bug.
Marc:Having experienced that bug, having lived with that bug for all of my life, having somehow kept it at bay through various methods, I understand it.
Marc:I understand that.
Marc:Once you surrender your will to getting high, all bets are off.
Marc:You don't know what the fuck is going to happen.
Marc:And this guy was a talented guy.
Marc:He was one of the greatest actors ever.
Marc:who uh whoever lived and he had this horrible struggle and there's nothing more bothersome than horrible than people go like that made a choice yeah he made a choice but i don't know that he had that much control with any over that choice he was his heart and mind were were being given instruction by a fucking demon it's it's probably one of the the closest um
Marc:metaphorically, if not literally, it is the closest I've ever seen to demonic possession, active drug addiction.
Marc:It's nothing to be trivialized.
Marc:It's nothing to be dismissed as some sort of bad life choice.
Marc:I really think that that kind of conversation about drugs needs to be
Marc:eliminated from the culture I mean it's one thing to to try to stop drugs that seems futile but try to raise awareness and get people treatment so they at least have a shot you know and Philip Seymour Hoffman had had some periods of sobriety but something something switched off something didn't stick something was not there when he needed it to be there in terms of the support necessary to stop him from from re-entering the dragon and
Marc:from opening his soul to the demon,
Marc:Now he's gone.
Marc:We lost him.
Marc:We lost him to that.
Marc:We lost him to that fucked up disease.
Marc:Fucked up drugs.
Marc:You know, I've seen a lot of people go down because of this.
Marc:People in my business.
Marc:People I've known.
Marc:Some people come back.
Marc:Heroin's a tough monkey to kick, man.
Marc:Seems to be the hardest to really reenter life after being strung out on dope.
Marc:You know, it sets the bar of your brain chemicals.
Marc:So high and so low simultaneously that you can never recapture that.
Marc:I think once you have that blast, once you feel that nod, that a lot of things pale in comparison and the deep hunger in the reptile brain for that feeling is a tough thing to stifle.
Marc:I know cats that have quit dope and kind of moved through methadone and then became sort of managing alcoholics, drinkers, to sort of give that demon a taste.
Marc:And a lot of them didn't go back to dope.
Marc:Yeah, a few guys I know that ended up sort of putting that at bay and just sort of nursing a drink every once in a while to take the edge off.
Marc:They've done all right.
Marc:I'm not saying abstinence is for everybody, but as Jim Carroll said about Kurt Cobain, he should have negotiated with the monkey.
Marc:It's hard to negotiate with the monkey.
Marc:Sometimes you've got to cut that fucking monkey off.
Marc:You know, last week on Thursday, we ran an interview with Mark Spitz, who who also battled with heroin, but didn't.
Marc:But at this at this juncture has not lost and and is out of its grips, not sober per se, but out of the grips of that motherfucker.
Marc:heroin's a bitch drug addiction is horrible it's a mental illness it's a real disease and Philip Seymour Hoffman is dead and it's sad and it's sad because you know just know that there is help available and I have and this may be a little serious I understand maybe I'll get to something funny in a minute
Marc:But there is help available.
Marc:There's help on the way.
Marc:There's always help there if you look for it.
Marc:The hardest thing about it is once you get into that mind, once you are in demon mind, your decision-making capacity or your will to know that you're in trouble becomes somewhat compromised.
Marc:I'll kick tomorrow.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman.
Marc:You were great.
Marc:As I said, Morgan Murphy is on the show.
Marc:I'm heading to New York this week to do a thing.
Marc:I don't think I can tell you what the thing is.
Marc:It's not going to be a thing that you can see for a while.
Marc:That's all I'm going to say.
Marc:That's all I'm going to tell you.
Marc:So in the middle of all this, I got to go to New York and I just get done shooting my show.
Marc:Here's what happens.
Marc:I've been putting off taking La Fonda to the vet.
Marc:Need to take La Fonda to the vet because her fucking eye is changing color.
Marc:And she's got a growth on her lip that is getting bigger.
Marc:So I'm like, all right, it's the Friday after I got done shooting.
Marc:Let's wrestle the mongoose into a fucking cage.
Marc:These are...
Marc:Half wild cats.
Marc:As you know, my cats are feral, both Monkey and LaFonda and Boomer, wherever he may be.
Marc:All wild cats initially.
Marc:That means they're skittish.
Marc:And when they turn on you, they fucking turn on you like their life depends on it.
Marc:And I got to get LaFonda into the cage to take her to the vet.
Marc:And that means I got one shot, people.
Marc:One shot.
Marc:I got to put that cage in my bedroom, open the top of that cage.
Marc:And when LaFonda is on the bed, this is a cat that does not like being picked up for any reason.
Marc:I got one shot, folks.
Marc:That's all you get.
Marc:One shot.
Marc:If you miss your shot, if she gets wind of it, if she gets onto you and she takes out her fucking claws, you're in trouble.
Marc:And you got to wait till another day.
Marc:That's just the way this shit goes.
Marc:I had one shot.
Marc:She was laying on the bed, had the cage open overnight, petted her, said, that's it, baby, how you doing?
Marc:Grabbed her by the scruff of the neck, got her into that fucking cage and took her to the vet to get her eye and her lip looked at.
Marc:Took my friend Moon with me for moral support.
Marc:Well, because we had other things to do.
Marc:So we get there.
Marc:Dr. Jimerson over at Gateway Animal Hospital comes out, says, what's the matter?
Marc:I said, her eye's changing color.
Marc:She's got growth on her lip.
Marc:We open the cage.
Marc:LaFonda's not coming out.
Marc:We turn the cage upside down.
Marc:With the gate door open, LaFonna is somehow managed in a very cartoon like way to put her four paws on either side of the door from the inside and not fall out.
Marc:Jimerson says, is this a difficult cat?
Marc:I'm like, this cat's a fucking monster, Doc.
Marc:And he goes, well, why don't you tell me?
Marc:Let's put her under.
Marc:I'm like, OK, all right.
Marc:Well, can you just tell me about the eye?
Marc:He goes, yeah, that looks normal.
Marc:I said, what about the growth?
Marc:Well, I don't know.
Marc:We got to we got to get in there.
Marc:We got to put her out and look at it and see if it's cancer.
Marc:Might be cancer.
Marc:If it's black, it might be cancer.
Marc:So I'm panicky.
Marc:Moon, who is tempered and chooses to care more about people than animals, though she likes animals, she does not quite get the anxiety and desperate fear that comes over me when I have cat problems, which I can only take in one way, is that, yes, I am a fucking sad man with ridiculously low emotional priorities because my heart is attached to this cat and the other cat.
Marc:who have been, quite frankly, the only consistent animals in my life for the last decade.
Marc:They have always been there, and that's that.
Marc:I can poo-poo it.
Marc:I can say, like, yeah, my cats are my cats, or I have a relationship with my cats, but to be fucking honest with you, these cats have been my anchor for over a decade, and now this one's got maybe a cancer on its face.
Marc:So here's where it gets a little dicey.
Marc:I let Doc Jimmerson put her down.
Marc:I say clean her teeth, clip her claws, give her a tune-up, comb her out, and see what that is.
Marc:A couple hours later, he says it's not cancer.
Marc:It was a cyst, but we took it off.
Marc:I go to pick up the cat, and they got a cone on this fucking cat's head.
Marc:My cat LaFonda has never had a cone on her head.
Marc:And when something is irritating the LaFonda, that's when things get wild.
Marc:So now I got a wild cat with a cone on her fucking head and the doctor's like, you got to leave that on a week.
Marc:So now I got to go to New York in two days.
Marc:So that would mean that the cat would be at home with the cone and I wouldn't be there.
Marc:I don't know if the cat's going to hang itself, if it's going to get fucked up with the cone.
Marc:I'm hoping that it can adapt to the cone I bring her home she immediately gets out of the cage runs around the house not knowing what's on her head or how to see properly runs into everything scurries under the bed stays there for two fucking days so I finally fed her with a spoon doesn't shit doesn't pee doesn't eat
Marc:cannot get the cat out from under the bed stuck down there with cone not adapting this is a standoff and there's nothing sadder and more pathetic than a cat that has dignity beauty and a will and a fucking edge with her head in a fucking cone just looking at me thinking you know i anthropomorphize a bitch she's looking at me going you fucking asshole i'm not gonna eat i'm not gonna shit i'm not gonna pee until you take this thing off of my head you fuck
Marc:So eventually I decided that I couldn't live with it.
Marc:So I got her out and I took the cone off.
Marc:I'm rolling the dice, I'm rolling the dice.
Marc:I looked at her, I said, do not rip those stitches open because that'll be a real problem.
Marc:I'm trusting you here.
Marc:But what the beautiful thing was is that I took the cone off and this was a cat that hadn't eaten in two days or peed or shit.
Marc:And this cat went into the, got the cone off and she went, meow.
Marc:And then she immediately went into where the litter box was and got into that litter box.
Marc:And I'm just sitting at the table doing some work with my cat monkey on the table.
Marc:And LaFonda starts, I just hear her peeing.
Marc:And then she starts singing.
Marc:She started making a sound I'd never heard her make before.
Guest:Just like...
Marc:And I'm like, what is happening?
Marc:What is happening?
Marc:And I just went back to the room where the litter box is.
Marc:I stuck my head around and she was just peeing and singing.
Marc:She was singing because she had been spitefully holding her pee.
Marc:And this was a victory song, a victory song in my face.
Okay.
Marc:She doesn't seem to be picking at the stitches.
Marc:I think we're out of the woods.
Marc:I hope it's going to be the way it's going to be.
Marc:It's only two stitches.
Marc:I'm not going to freak out about it.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Right now, my guest is Morgan Murphy.
Marc:We go way back.
Marc:I've known her since she was a child, kind of, because she, yeah, I think I met her when she was maybe 21, 22.
Marc:And she's an incredibly successful comedy writer and stand-up comedian.
Marc:Her special is called Irish Goodbye.
Marc:It's on Netflix.
Marc:And now the album is on iTunes.
Marc:And we're going to talk to her.
Marc:We're going to get to know Morgan Murphy.
Marc:Is that all right?
Marc:And I'm going to get to make up with her again.
Guest:You can hear yourself.
Marc:Can you hear me?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a pleasure, isn't it?
Marc:To hear me in your head.
Marc:Huh?
Guest:Always.
Marc:Isn't it nice when it's not yelling?
Marc:Listen.
Guest:Is that what it sounds like?
Guest:Is that what your voice sounds like?
Marc:That's what it sounds like when it's not yelling.
Guest:At normal levels?
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:That's exciting.
Marc:Isn't that amazing what microphones can do?
Guest:It's not remotely threatening.
Marc:Right.
Marc:These are special mics that remove the threat.
Marc:Mine's custom-made to remove the threat.
Marc:So, Morgan Murphy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't usually start like that.
Marc:I don't usually...
Guest:Oh, we started?
Marc:Yeah, I don't usually do a set, like a casual NPR type.
Marc:So Morgan Murphy, like when they reset.
Marc:What is happening?
Marc:What did you do this morning?
Marc:The last time I talked to you, you go, you hole up in Santa Monica by yourself to surf.
Marc:So you go down the street and hole up in a hotel, a nice hotel.
Guest:Yeah, try to go to a nice hotel, stay there, get a little writing done, try to surf.
Guest:I never was a beach person.
Guest:I never got told to go in the ocean and try it out.
Marc:You never went with the grandparents on the big schlep day with the mom?
Guest:No.
Guest:My mom is like a shade person.
Guest:My mom's a pale Jew.
Guest:She just is a hat in a shade and doesn't want to be in a sun person, so I never went with her.
Marc:Yeah, there's definitely a few kinds of Jews.
Marc:I don't know that kind.
Guest:The pale Jew.
Marc:The pale, want to stay in the shade Jew.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah, I know the kind that get to a point where they're like, let's go to the beach and sit.
Marc:I come from beach sitters.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I come from sun avoiders.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Where is your mom?
Guest:She's in Connecticut now.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Where was she?
Guest:Well, I grew up in L.A.
Guest:with her, and then we moved to Connecticut when I was a sophomore in high school.
Marc:She went back to Connecticut?
Guest:She stayed there ever since I was... I mean, we moved there when I was... In high school?
Marc:In high school.
Guest:And where's your dad?
Guest:My dad is kind of back and forth between New York and Palm Springs.
Marc:That sounds shifty.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I got no idea.
Guest:I mean, you know, you can ask me a million questions.
Guest:I wouldn't have the answers about my dad.
Marc:You can't even speculate what's going on in Palm Springs.
Guest:You know, he somehow makes enough money to be able to do a few things.
Marc:So he's got a place in Palm Springs.
Guest:He's got a little condo, yeah.
Marc:A little condo and a place in New York.
Guest:Yeah, and his girlfriend.
Marc:Him and his girlfriend.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What's he up to?
Guest:I have no idea.
Marc:You don't know?
Guest:No, I don't know.
Guest:I really don't know.
Guest:I really don't know.
Guest:I'm like, all right, that sounds fun.
Guest:He was recently producing an Elvis Presley stage show at a casino in Palm Springs.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is that his background or is that just... No.
Guest:That's his hustle?
Guest:That was just a thing he did.
Marc:You don't know how he got involved with that?
Guest:No.
Marc:He just told you one day, like, I'm doing a thing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You want to come out?
Guest:He invited me out.
Guest:I was never able to see it.
Guest:Apparently, it was a real joy.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Elvis painted while he performed.
Marc:What?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know.
Guest:How did everyone not hear about this already?
Marc:That was the angle?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:An Elvis impersonator who paints?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Stop it.
Guest:No.
Marc:How does that happen?
Marc:Does he bring someone up from the audience and paint them?
Guest:No, I think he paints on the canvas.
Marc:That's the show?
No.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:It was a big draw?
Guest:Well, it was at the local casino in downtown Palm Springs.
Guest:I don't know how big a draw.
Marc:The local casino downtown in Palm Springs and Elvis impersonator painting on stage.
Guest:And singing.
Marc:And singing.
Marc:While he paints?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Is he just not committed to the singing?
Guest:He's got like one hand in both.
Guest:He hasn't picked an art yet.
Guest:But what was your dad's racket before that?
Guest:I grew up with my mom, so it was always very blurry.
Guest:Whatever my dad was doing was always very broad and blurry.
Guest:It was always sort of like trying to produce some thing into reality.
Yeah.
Guest:He made a couple movies like in the 80s, I think.
Guest:He did?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Did you see him?
Guest:No.
Guest:Did anybody?
Guest:He made a movie called Osterman Weekend.
Guest:With the Sam Peckinpah movie?
Marc:What do you mean he made that?
Guest:He executive produced it, I think.
Marc:He executive produced the Osterman Weekend?
Marc:I think so.
Marc:That was like his last movie, I think.
Marc:That was Peckinpah's last movie.
Marc:It was a complicated movie.
Marc:I think Rutger Hauer is in it.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he is.
Marc:So your dad was a movie producer?
Guest:Yeah, a little bit.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:But again, I didn't live with him, so a lot of it was before me.
Marc:But what is that with people who don't grow up with their dads?
Marc:I have another friend who has a dad who did things, and there's sort of this lack of clarity about it.
Marc:Like, yeah, he did a thing.
Guest:Yeah, because it's nothing that seems to have... It so exists in my past.
Guest:It's not a thing he still does, or maybe he does, and I don't know it.
Marc:But wouldn't you think that making a movie would be sort of exciting?
Marc:Were you not in the loop?
Marc:I wasn't in the loop.
Guest:I wasn't in the loop, and it was a lot, like, a lot of it was before me.
Guest:I'm trying to think of anything.
Guest:He worked for, I mean, the only time I remember his movie life even crossing over into mine was that I got to go to, like, the premiere of, like, Land Before Time, one of those animated movies when I was a kid.
Guest:Like, somehow he was working for someone.
Marc:That was a good hookup.
Guest:So that was a hookup.
Guest:But I don't know how.
Guest:I didn't know as a kid how I got to do that.
Guest:I just knew it was one of those days where my dad was going to pull up and pick me up.
Guest:Take you to a thing.
Guest:Take me somewhere.
Marc:Yeah, a big thing.
Guest:A big thing.
Marc:I'm going to surprise you.
Marc:This is a big thing.
Marc:We're going to a place.
Marc:Oh, that's sad and sweet.
Guest:No, it's sweet, yeah.
Marc:So you're entirely without the father in the place?
Guest:Yeah, from when I was like three and then I moved in with him when I was like 17.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And he grew up in Los Angeles?
Marc:What part of Los Angeles?
Guest:Grew up in the valley in Studio City.
Marc:Just like that?
Guest:Moved down here from Oregon when I was a baby.
Marc:Who was in Oregon?
Guest:My mom and my dad.
Guest:They were both in Oregon?
Guest:Yeah, my parents split and my mom took me down here.
Marc:What was your dad's racket in Oregon?
Guest:My dad was a lawyer.
Guest:He was?
Guest:Yeah, my dad went to Yale and became a lawyer.
Guest:I think he had a Porsche.
Guest:This was all my dad before I knew him, so I hear all this stuff.
Guest:My cousins used to call him Uncle Trouble.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Fun dad.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You missed all that.
Guest:I missed all of that.
Guest:Well, I missed the booze.
Guest:My dad was a big boozer and basically my mom was like, stop drinking and took me away.
Marc:And he didn't.
Guest:He did.
Marc:He did stop, but she still took you away.
Marc:It seems like she balked on that deal.
Marc:There must have been some condition.
Marc:If you stop, I will stay with the child.
Marc:And he stopped and she was like, no, it's a bluff.
Marc:I don't like either way.
Guest:Well, as far as I know, I feel like he was getting sober for a long time.
Guest:I think it was a big part of my childhood was him adjusting to being sober.
Marc:And he's still sober.
Guest:Yeah, like 30 years.
Marc:Wow.
Marc:And your dad's not Jewish?
Guest:No, he's Catholic, Irish Catholic.
Marc:What was your structure?
Guest:I was raised Jewish by my mom.
Guest:I went to Hebrew school until I was 13, and then I never got bat mitzvahed, which I always think is the Jewiest thing.
Guest:My mom didn't want to spend money on a bat mitzvah.
Guest:She told you?
Guest:Yeah, she told me at 13.
Guest:I went for years.
Guest:That was the big payoff.
Guest:Yeah, that was the big payoff.
Marc:Nothing?
Guest:Nothing.
Marc:Have you dealt with that resentment?
Guest:There's a lot.
Guest:I think there are things higher on the list.
Marc:Than denying you a bat mitzvah.
Guest:Than denying me a bat mitzvah.
Marc:So your mom comes down here.
Marc:They split up you and you're in Studio C. Is she in show business?
Guest:No, she's a graphic designer.
Guest:She's like an artist.
Marc:She was always an artist?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She was a graphic designer then?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And what does a graphic designer do?
Marc:Does she do magazine work?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Magazine brochures, catalogs.
Marc:Can she paint the shit out of stuff?
Guest:She used to be able to know it when she gets back into such you can't when you see her draw like freehand you're like oh Yeah, that woman knows how to do stuff like it.
Marc:Yeah, it's pretty impressive And is there a sibling around nothing just you just me what the fuck man?
Marc:That's a lot of pressure.
Marc:I always think that's a lot of pressure.
I
Guest:Yeah, it is when things aren't, like in hindsight, I would have loved somebody to co-commiserate with.
Marc:Yeah, could somebody get it.
Guest:Like, this lady's crazy, right?
Guest:Like, I had nobody, you know.
Guest:You're asking your imaginary friends if your mom is crazy, you're as crazy as she is.
Guest:It's the worst.
Marc:But it, like, I guess it's me projecting, but...
Marc:So with an only child, there's none of that sort of like, this is all on me.
Marc:I better not disappoint these people.
Guest:There must have been some of that because I was real.
Guest:I don't know if I tried to please her, but I definitely was like a kid who tried to impress, you know, like adults.
Marc:Precocious?
Marc:Is that what they call it?
Guest:I'm trying to think of, yeah, I had like a lot of, you know, I played a lot of sports.
Guest:So it was always coaches and people like that that I wanted to be awesome and impress them and kind of surrogate father types and
Marc:So you felt there was a search for that?
Guest:I think so.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I feel that.
Marc:I've noticed that with people who don't have the dad in the picture.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:They've got a lot to prove.
Guest:Yeah, I think, you know, I don't know.
Guest:I don't know why.
Guest:Sports in particular was where I did all of that.
Marc:And what sports?
Guest:I mean, basketball, softball, karate.
Guest:Did some karate?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What belt did you get?
Guest:Red.
Marc:Your red belt karate?
Marc:You don't hear that much.
Marc:Is that higher than black?
Marc:No, it's one lower than black.
Marc:Did your mom pull you from class on that?
Guest:Actually, I tore up my ankle doing karate, and my basketball and softball coaches made me quit karate.
Marc:Because you were such an asset to the team?
Marc:They're like, what are you wasting your time on that hobby?
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:You know enough to protect yourself.
Marc:Pick up the bat.
Guest:But yeah, sports were my life for a long time.
Guest:Weird, you know, it actually, even for years, I didn't want to do them.
Guest:I was doing them.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You didn't want to?
Marc:You just felt like you had to?
Guest:I think getting into my teenage years, I realized that I wanted to do something creative and didn't really have an outlet for it, so I just kept playing sports because I was good at them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was moving around every year, so sports teams were a built-in social group.
Guest:If I was at a new school, it was like, oh, well, I'm a basketball player, so here are some new friends and they're basketball players.
Marc:Well, you moved around a lot.
Guest:I went to three high schools in three states.
Marc:For three different years?
Guest:Yeah, middle of my sophomore year, I moved from Southern California to Connecticut.
Guest:And then between my junior and senior year, I moved from Connecticut to Oregon.
Marc:Back to Oregon?
Guest:Back to Oregon.
Marc:Your mom went back to Oregon.
Guest:My, no, I went back to Oregon.
Guest:Oh, I went to live with your dad.
Guest:He was up there.
Guest:And I lived with some family friends and then an aunt and uncle and then my dad.
Marc:You lived with family friends?
Guest:Yeah, for like a few months.
Marc:What happened there?
Guest:You know, it was weird.
Guest:I was living with, I mean, I lived with aunt and uncles in Connecticut too.
Guest:I was, my mom was kind of,
Marc:Not into it?
Guest:Not into it.
Guest:I don't know how else to say it.
Guest:She was having her own time.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I kind of got bounced around.
Guest:I live with my mom's sister and...
Guest:like my aunt and uncle in Connecticut, and then I would go back with my mom, then back with my aunt, and then it was just crazy, and so I basically went out to Oregon for a summer for a break, whatever that is, when you're 16, whatever, yeah, not my own break.
Marc:But didn't that piss you off?
Guest:I didn't understand at the time that it was that it was crazy.
Guest:I think I definitely like I that's when I started I started getting like really bad panic attacks and stuff at that time.
Guest:And I now obviously, you know, I realize like, oh, I was I was abandoned.
Guest:Well, yeah, and I was internalizing everything that was happening around me, but I didn't at the time think, wow, everything around me is nuts.
Guest:I just became an anxious, sad person.
Marc:Yeah, that's when it happened?
Marc:In your teens?
Guest:Kinda, yeah.
Marc:From your mom freaking out and your dad was doing his own thing?
Guest:I think from just being passed around and not having the stability, yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:How did that panic manifest itself?
Guest:I just started getting panic attacks, like really severe panic attacks.
Guest:Can't breathe?
Guest:Yeah, just not knowing what was happening and feeling disoriented and sick and dizzy.
Guest:And just really thinking I was sick for like a year.
Guest:And then knock on wood, somebody convinced me to try an antidepressant and that worked.
Marc:How old were you when that happened?
Guest:um i tried different ones and then when i was like 15 and then uh when i was 16 i think i got put on paxil which i don't take anymore but for whatever reason that kind of clicked and it suddenly had footing whatever that means yeah yeah yeah you know you turned down the uh the grounded you a little
Guest:Yeah, yeah, and allowed me to sort of have a little independence, which I think I needed desperately.
Marc:And did you go to therapy in cahoots with that?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Because sometimes you take that stuff and then it frees you up to deal with the source of it.
Guest:Uh, yeah.
Marc:Oh man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I've been going to therapy since I was like 16.
Marc:How many different therapists?
Guest:Um, probably four or five.
Marc:Can you remember?
Marc:Cause I was doing this on the show the other day.
Marc:Did you learn something from each one of them?
Marc:Could you go through them?
Guest:I think I learned something from one of them.
Marc:One?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Really?
Guest:I mean, my first kind of doctor, I really do credit for sort of saving me in that I was flailing.
Guest:When you were 15?
Guest:Yeah, 15, 16.
Marc:What was the situation?
Marc:Who sent you?
Guest:um she actually sent me to uh your mom no my my this was in oregon uh family friends this was uh she sent me to the adolescent psychiatric unit yeah yeah the reason i'm interested in this is guys sure like i remember when i got put into therapy for the first time so i was like maybe 13 or 14. yeah
Marc:Not because I was depressed.
Marc:I was not doing anything.
Marc:I was lethargic or something.
Marc:Were you smoking pot?
Marc:No, I didn't get into drugs until I was way into high school.
Marc:Even then, I was nervous about it.
Marc:My drug stuff started in college, full on.
Marc:But I remember going to group therapy.
Marc:I remember the first psychiatrist I went to for that first analysis.
Marc:There's a creepiness to it.
Marc:I didn't understand what I was there for.
Marc:But then once I got into group therapy, I was like, well, this is great.
Marc:There's an audience and there's girls here.
Marc:But it had no... That was your first open mic?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I don't think it had any real effect on me other than to sort of...
Marc:kind of reaffirm my ability to lead in the wrong way.
Marc:So when you went in, were you in bad enough shape to take it in?
Guest:I think that, I don't know, I think that when a doctor suggests that you do this, you're sort of reminded, at least for me, it was a little bit of the outside world, other adults saying, we're doing this because your situation is crazy.
Guest:Were you suicidal?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I think I thought I was at the time.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, I don't know how... I don't know.
Guest:I thought I was, but... Did you have other things?
Marc:Was there eating things and that kind of stuff?
Guest:No.
Guest:No craziness?
Guest:No craziness, just... That's why it's sort of boring.
Guest:It's like when you're just depressed and have some anxiety issues, it's... You are the most boring person in a unit.
Marc:In the adolescent psychiatric unit?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So what happened?
Guest:um that you know honestly they just uh that was where they put me on the right antidepressant and uh and it was very easy like it was everybody else there was a lot of tantrums and you know like locking someone up because they were hurting themselves and shit like that you mean you were locked up for i mean you were on the unit for a while
Guest:Yeah, like not that long, like a week or something, you know, a week and a half.
Guest:And I think weirdly a big part of it was my doctor getting me away from the adults in my life who were not necessarily stable or, I don't want to say unsafe, but in a weird way, I think she knew it was like a reprieve.
Marc:But you seem so, like in all of my interactions with you, you seem so almost compressed and level.
Yeah.
Marc:When did that start?
Marc:I have to imagine that when you're on the basketball court, you're not going, hey, how's it going?
Guest:I think part of the level that I'm at probably affected me negatively in sports.
Guest:I was never that aggressive for that.
Marc:But you were a good player.
Guest:I was a good player, but I didn't want to box out.
Guest:I didn't want to fight anybody.
Guest:I just wanted to kind of show off and let me do my thing.
Marc:Were you a good team player?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I did all the songs and stuff from the dugout.
Guest:All that sports crap.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:I did all that, but I kind of hated it.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:I hated it.
Guest:Why do you mean you hated it?
Guest:I hated it.
Guest:Like from 13, 14, I hated it.
Guest:I just kept doing it.
Marc:What was it that you hated?
Guest:I just didn't... You know, I was jealous of, like, the weird kids with the journals, like, scribbling in their locker.
Guest:You know, I was... I thought that's... I think that's who I am, but I'm... But I got to hang out with all these basketball players.
Marc:Because you were a jock.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you were... That was your social unit.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So then when you saw, like, the troubled... Yeah.
Marc:The troubled artsy ones?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You're like, there's one of them inside of you?
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:I think so.
Marc:When did you access that initially?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think when I was in high school, I realized, like, I don't, what's the end to the sports stuff, basically?
Guest:It's just going nowhere.
Guest:Yeah, and, you know, you want to meet boys, and you're not, I don't know why I thought, like, my Letterman jacket would help me meet boys.
Marc:It's a role switcher.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, maybe you met slightly effeminate boys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it was also great.
Guest:It was one of those things where I was the only freshman.
Guest:I was a freshman on varsity basketball and varsity softball.
Guest:So for that year, it did everything I wanted to do, which was make me feel special and be cool.
Guest:The older kids were like, Morgan, sit with us at the basketball game in the bird's nest.
Guest:I'm like, I don't know what that is, but I'm going to do it.
Marc:Were you drinking?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I didn't do any of that until I was in college.
Guest:I didn't know where to get it.
Guest:Like when you move around too a lot, I didn't meet anyone to get drink or drugs.
Marc:Because the bad kids were the kids that you wanted to be with.
Marc:Like the kids you were hanging out with probably just drank beer, right?
Guest:Yeah, and then one of them, I think I had some like a Goldschlager when I was a freshman because somebody on one of my teams was dating a 21-year-old.
Marc:A shot at Goldschlager?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:At a park playground.
Marc:Right on, man.
Marc:Was that warm?
Marc:Did it feel warm?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Your friend was dating a 21-year-old who was giving high school girls a Goldschwager.
Guest:Yeah, she was 18, he was 21.
Guest:I was like 14 or something.
Marc:I was just... I wonder how they're doing.
Guest:They probably made it.
Marc:Yeah, I'm sure they did.
Marc:But what was the transition into arts and what did you choose to do?
Marc:When did you buy your first notebook and start wearing regular clothing?
Guest:I was...
Guest:Honestly, that summer that I was in the adolescence, psychiatric or whatever.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:That was the first therapist.
Marc:All you learn from them is like, okay, I'm away from my parents.
Marc:Clearly, I have some issues.
Marc:These pills seem to be helping.
Marc:I'll go home now.
Guest:Basically, but also...
Guest:And again, I'm not a proponent of just doing antidepressants and thinking that'll fix your life.
Guest:But I really do think that that had a huge impact in directing where I went the following year, which was like the first year that I didn't play basketball at school.
Guest:I was at a new school.
Guest:Basically, I did a play instead.
Marc:What play?
Guest:I can't remember what it was called, but I was like a waitress with a New York accent.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:A couple lines?
Guest:A couple lines.
Marc:And that was it?
Marc:That was... The stages for me moment?
Yeah.
Guest:Not necessarily even the stages for me moment.
Guest:It was, I'm kind of finally doing, I think, what I want to do and not what I'm being pushed into.
Guest:And there's no one telling me I have to play basketball.
Guest:There's no one telling me I have to do anything.
Marc:Did your dad tell you how to play basketball?
Guest:No, no.
Marc:My mom used to.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:She wanted basketball for you.
Guest:Basketball, softball, whatever sports.
Marc:Why does she think that sports?
Marc:I mean, I don't disagree.
Guest:I think that her social life and her life was so intertwined with my sports life that if I had stopped and a huge part of her life would have stopped.
Marc:What, just going to the games, being with the other parents, the rah-rah thing?
Guest:Yeah, and having something to rag about me.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, and also, I'm assuming that there's part of a parent who doesn't want their kid to quit something, and I'm sure that was just another part of it, but...
Marc:Because I feel like I was denied some sort of coping mechanism by not being taught how to lose and how to play on a team and how to sort of know that it's not all about me necessarily.
Marc:Did you find that in your life?
Marc:Can you look back at all that time doing sports like softball and basketball that you did take something positive from it?
Guest:Oh yeah.
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Guest:And I think it gave me... I mean, I don't think I'm a tremendously confident person, but I think it gave me as much confidence as anything could have at the time.
Guest:Partially because I was just naturally good at it.
Guest:So I was lucky to be naturally good at it because I don't know if I would have worked harder to get better.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But what about working with others and that kind of stuff?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, you...
Guest:I don't focus on it.
Guest:I don't think like, oh yeah, that's what taught me teamwork, but I'm sure somehow it did.
Marc:What about learning to lose?
Marc:I'm just projecting because I want confirmation from somebody who went through it.
Marc:Because when you play sports and you play a lot of games, losing is like, all right, team, we didn't get that one.
Marc:It's not like, I'm going to kill myself.
Marc:I suck.
Marc:This is horrible.
Marc:I don't deserve to live.
Marc:That happened this morning to me.
Guest:No, I never took that win-lose.
Guest:I mean, I wanted to win, but I don't think I was ever as upset about losing as most people, mostly because it wasn't as an important part of my life, I think, in my head, mentally, as it was for most people.
Marc:Okay, so you do the play.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what, a light bulb goes off?
Marc:You're like, I got some laughs?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, a big part of it was a big part of why I was happy I did it was that I just I was so I went from being so anxious and so nervous to do things and, you know, go play.
Guest:I mean, you know, doing something live in front of people was the scariest thing I could think of.
Guest:And so it was a matter of.
Guest:Okay, I can do that.
Guest:That was really it.
Guest:Okay, I can do that.
Guest:I did that.
Guest:I can do it.
Guest:If I can do that, then I can maybe do other things.
Marc:Getting over fears, I think, is probably a big... Putting yourself in the situation to wrestle with your fears, to overcome them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I, I sort of hosted a open mic type of thing at my high school that year in like characters, which I don't do.
Guest:I don't know why.
Marc:Could you tell me which characters I would enjoy?
Guest:I was like a, I think I was like a sheriff that was like demanding people listen.
Guest:I can't even remember.
Marc:Can we get it?
Marc:Can we get a little bit of that?
Guest:There's none of it.
Guest:Did you do a voice?
Guest:Yeah, I don't do voices or accents.
Guest:I don't act out things.
Guest:I don't know why this was like the first foray into performing.
Marc:Well, you just come off your amazing success as a New York waitress.
Guest:Of course.
Marc:And you're like, I'm sure you had an accent.
Marc:How are you?
Marc:What's the New York accent?
Guest:You know, I was like, can I get you something?
Marc:You know, one of those.
Marc:Kind of tough.
Guest:Yeah, kind of tough.
Guest:I did get best accent that year in the theater department.
Guest:Oh, very good.
Guest:Congratulations.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:With your classic reading?
Guest:Jesuit High School, Portland, Oregon.
Marc:Okay, so you host the open mic with your sheriff character.
Guest:Yeah, and a couple other characters.
Marc:What were they, Morgan?
Guest:Honestly, I don't remember.
Guest:Were any of them animals?
Guest:I think they were all characters that had been done 50,000 times before I did them.
Guest:And then I played the bass in an Ani DeFranco song.
Marc:You did?
Marc:I did.
Marc:You know how to play bass?
Guest:No, I was trying to know.
Marc:So that was part of the hosting gig?
Guest:That was my performance in the talent show.
Marc:So the joke was you trying to learn to play bass?
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:I played the bass, and my friend with spiky hair, she... So this was an earnest performance?
Guest:This was an earnest performance she sang, and I played the bass on an Ani DeFranco song.
Marc:And you took that seriously?
Guest:I took that very seriously.
Marc:How else was there to play an Annie DeFranco song?
Marc:You have to take it very seriously, right?
Guest:Yeah, absolutely.
Marc:And this is year of 15?
Guest:Like 16, turning 17, something like that.
Marc:And what kind of music were you into?
Guest:Hip-hop and a lot of lesbian folk music.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Indigo Girls?
Guest:Yeah, Indigo Girls, like Anita Franco, like, you know, Jill Sabuel, like, you know, just whoever, somebody on my softball team had introduced me to all this music in her VW Bug.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, with a Visualize World Peas bumper sticker.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Was there any other agenda there?
Marc:Probably.
Marc:Oh, you didn't pick up on that?
Guest:I didn't.
Marc:You just saw like, this is cool.
Marc:She's playing some music.
Guest:I was like, man, this is a cool chick.
Guest:She's like a senior.
Guest:She wears one of those hemp necklaces.
Marc:And we're just hanging out in her bug.
Guest:In her bug.
Guest:That was it?
Guest:That was it.
Guest:Come on!
Guest:I'm telling you, that was it.
Guest:That was like, I've gone, what, probably 25 of my 32 years with people thinking I'm a lesbian.
Guest:I'm winding up in VW bugs.
Marc:Which is, I think, it's just a starter car for a lesbian.
Marc:I'm sure she didn't stick with that one.
Marc:I don't know what she's driving now.
Marc:Yeah, so, okay, so 25 years thinking you're a lesbian.
Marc:You never thought that.
Guest:No, but I thought, like, what if I am and I don't know it?
Guest:Kind of that stuff.
Guest:Because so many people would say, like, you're gay.
Guest:Like, I don't think I am.
Marc:You're fighting consensus.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you're like, maybe I'm missing something.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:How'd you solve that one?
Guest:I mean, I just kept fucking guys and going like, this is nice.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I'm really okay with this.
Guest:I'm okay with this.
Marc:Not feeling any compulsion.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I just love, I love sports.
Guest:I love, I mean, even to this day, like, I watch sports obsessively.
Guest:I bet on sports.
Guest:And I, you know, I feel like if you do things that are traditionally male things, then people think you're gay.
Marc:Huh.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Does that bother you?
Guest:No, it used to.
Guest:And now it's... I kind of don't care.
Guest:I mean, I've gotten even more into sports and more into...
Guest:No, it doesn't bother me at all.
Guest:The one thing that makes me a little bit sad is that because neither of my parents drink.
Guest:You know, my dad's into sports.
Guest:My mom's not at all.
Guest:And I grew up with her.
Guest:So I don't even know how I got into sports.
Guest:My grandfather was like, you know, he played poker and he drank whiskey and he watched sports.
Guest:And I had him like, God, that's the guy I wish I would have been able to hang out with and do all that stuff with.
Guest:Because I feel like I'm like, oh, that's me.
Guest:Like poker and whiskey and boxing.
Marc:You think that was burned into your head there?
Marc:Because my grandfather had a profound effect on my childhood.
Guest:I don't remember him really.
Guest:Is he your father's father?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My mother's father.
Guest:Sorry.
Marc:oh the jew yeah the jew ah yeah the gambler yeah the smoker of cigars perhaps uh he was a cigarette smoker oh even better yeah you know just a yeah guy who liked the fights and yeah like to smoke classic yeah a classic uh you know worker jew yeah a man jew a man jew yeah not a writer jew no
Marc:A man Jew.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I break them into, there's the math Jew and the peasant Jew.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The peasant Jew is stockier.
Marc:The math Jew is slighter and usually wears glasses.
Guest:I have a bit of a peasant Jew.
Guest:Like physically, my people are very...
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Farmy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The farm Jews.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The women, very shelf-like breasts and, you know.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And stout.
Guest:Yeah, stout.
Marc:Your mom, too?
Guest:My mom and her sister are rounder.
Guest:They're comfy.
Marc:Are they like little Semitic tanks or zoptic?
Marc:Like have their shoulders leveled off into something that looks like a throw punch?
Yeah.
Guest:No, not so much, but it's a look to me that says, like, I'm going to go collect the eggs and plow the field.
Marc:And hope not to get killed by a Cossack or a Nazi.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, that's romantic.
Marc:But you never met the grandfather.
Guest:I met him, but he passed when I was like six or something.
Marc:That's enough for you to see him play poker.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Maybe I did.
Marc:You don't have any memory of it?
Marc:No memory of it.
Marc:So when did the comedy start?
Marc:Let's get to that.
Guest:When I was like, when I came down to L.A.
Guest:for college, I did.
Marc:Where'd you go to college?
Marc:Loyola Marymount University.
Marc:That seems like a school I've heard of.
Marc:Is that a good school?
Guest:It's a Jesuit college.
Marc:What is with all the Catholic fucking schools, man?
Guest:My dad had gone to Jesuit in Oregon, and I never would have gotten in, and they basically let me in.
Marc:So the Jesuits, that goes all the way through?
Guest:Once you have a Jesuit card, you can go to- No, basically my whole family has gone to that high school, and they kind of threw me a bone, I think, by letting me in.
Guest:The half-breed?
Guest:Yeah, the half free, but also a kid her senior year, not with great grades, with mental health issues.
Guest:Did they think Jesus might fix you?
Guest:I don't know what they thought might fix me, but I did feel like I got fixed there that year.
Marc:Did you have to wear an outfit?
Guest:No.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:No, but I actually sent them a check.
Guest:I've never done an alumni check, but I do feel like, I don't know, I feel like they had no reason to kind of accept me, and they did.
Marc:I like this weird sort of discomfort you have with earning money.
Guest:How so?
Guest:What do you mean?
Marc:When you first told me about your weekend surf excursions down the street, you were sort of half apologizing for the fact that I'm earning enough money to rent a hotel room down the street and surf.
Marc:It's a good thing.
Marc:You felt like you needed to explain yourself to me that this luxury you were affording yourself was something that like, you know, I'm not really that person, but I am renting a hotel room on weekends and surfing.
Guest:I think for everybody the minute, and by no means have like a tremendous amount of money, but when you start to make some extra money.
Guest:Yeah, what do you do with it?
Guest:What do you do with it?
Guest:And do you deserve to do anything with it?
Marc:Yeah, you know, that's interesting because I know that feeling.
Marc:Because if you don't have dependents.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And your life is relatively small just because that's the way you've always lived it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It's sort of like, all right, what am I supposed to get?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And if you're also a person who, not unlike you, is anxious or has sort of depressive qualities, I don't think to buy things.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's like people are like, you think maybe you ought to get a new car when you're driving up to the set of your own show?
Marc:You're driving a 2006 stripped down Camry that's fucked up and dirty.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm like, why?
Marc:And then like, it seems that you've made the jump in your head where you're like, oh, this is America.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's one of the sources of joy is buying something that might make your life better or more comfortable or fun.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I only learned that like the last year or two.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I don't have it.
Marc:It's still stressful to me because there's part of me that's sort of like, what if that money doesn't come back?
Marc:Right.
Marc:But then there's also the element of like, well, why don't I buy new curtains?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I don't know why.
Guest:I always feel like I have to have money saved away in case I lose my mind again and need to take a year off.
Guest:I always have a deep fear that I'm going to have a complete breakdown.
Marc:Really, I have a fear that I'll have a stroke or that I'll get part of my tongue removed and we'll have no source of income.
Marc:Mine's more permanent.
Marc:It's not like I'm going to have to take a year off.
Marc:It's like Mark can't speak anymore.
Marc:Thank God he saved some money.
Marc:If only we could read his writing.
Marc:When was the last time you lost your mind?
Guest:I was like 25, I think, 24.
Guest:Oh, when I knew you.
Marc:Yeah, right, before or after?
Guest:Before.
Marc:Oh, so I was just getting the tail end of that?
Guest:I think you were getting a pretty recovered person.
Guest:I just had taken a bad spell.
Guest:No, I think I was 24.
Guest:I think I was 24.
Marc:What precipitated that?
Guest:I went off my medication.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You just said, I don't need it anymore?
Guest:Basically.
Guest:I was tired of needing it.
Marc:Oh, you're like, maybe this went away?
Marc:Yeah, basically.
Marc:So by that time, you were working stand-up, done some TV, done some writing as well.
Marc:Had you done a Letterman yet?
Guest:No, no, no, I've never done a Letterman, but I was, yeah, I was like really quickly, like I was, I had to stand up through college, got out of college, worked on Crank Yankers and Kimmel.
Marc:All right, let's go back then.
Marc:Let's build to the break.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Because I haven't had that conversation, I don't think.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:I went off my meds and lost my mind medication.
Guest:Really?
Marc:Yeah, I don't think so.
Marc:So you finished college?
Guest:Finished college.
Marc:What did you major in?
Marc:English.
Marc:Yeah, me too.
Marc:Like what was your focus?
Guest:creative writing creative writing um poetry yeah i did a lot of yeah i took whatever whatever i i didn't i wasn't that obsessed with uh school on any level because i was doing stand-up the whole time and wanted to in college yeah in la yeah so that's when you started going to the clubs when you were like 19 yeah and you were interesting
Guest:I guess.
Marc:Yeah, no, you're a powerful presence.
Marc:You have a style that is unique.
Marc:And all that effort you put into being cool paid off.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Thank God.
Guest:It's not nothing.
Guest:No.
Marc:Do you remember where you first got paid to do comedy?
Guest:No.
Marc:Was that ever important to you?
Guest:No.
Guest:The reason it was never something I thought about was because I was always making money writing.
Guest:So that was taking care of the bills.
Marc:Wait, wait.
Marc:How did you get your first writing job?
Guest:I got crank anchors.
Marc:How did you get that?
Guest:I said it's so aggressive.
Marc:There's no way that question doesn't sound aggressive coming from anybody in showroom, especially comics.
Marc:There's no way.
Marc:Oh, that's interesting.
Marc:How'd you get that?
Marc:There's still a part of it.
Marc:What's the guy's name?
Marc:Can you give me a contact?
Guest:The guy's name is Jordan Rubin.
Guest:Jordan Rubin gave me the gig?
Guest:No, he was at the bar at the improv and said, Crank Yankers is hiring.
Guest:I think I was just out of college.
Guest:Doing open mics.
Guest:Well, at this point, yeah, doing the improv and doing clubs and stuff.
Guest:And he said, I can get you the email.
Guest:I can have them email you the packet they want or whatever.
Guest:So I basically wrote a packet.
Guest:Which was what?
Guest:Crank Calls?
Guest:Yeah, you write the character, different character ideas, different places they would call, why they would call joke pitches.
Guest:And I got crank anchors just off doing that.
Guest:First season?
Guest:No, it was like their third, I think.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:And then Kimmel produced that show.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So he got to know me through that show.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And then asked me to submit to Kimmel, to his late night show, which was new.
Guest:For monologue?
Guest:For everything.
Guest:Monologue sketches?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I went over there to Kimmel.
Marc:And you were 20?
Guest:No, I was like 21 at Crank Anchors, 22, 23, 24 kind of at Kimmel.
Marc:And what was the day at Kimmel like for a 24-year-old person?
Marc:You were just sitting there knocking out jokes?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember the first... I remember very few firsts and things like that, but I remember the first sketch I got on and had to go produce it and be teamed with a producer and actor...
Marc:You know, it was very... So that's how that works when you write a sketch.
Marc:They're like, all right, here you go.
Marc:Go make it happen.
Guest:Well, you pitch an idea, and I was like, here's the news story.
Guest:Here's my take on it.
Guest:And then Jimmy was like, sounds great.
Guest:Go do it.
Guest:And I remember thinking... At that point, I was probably 22, and I was like...
Guest:no no clue it was you know a week or two into work and something that got picked up and i'm you know the security guard thought i was an intern for like a week and i was just like oh god did you did you uh who do you go like who do i talk to you about
Guest:You know, someone luckily comes to you and guides you.
Marc:And says, like, you ready?
Guest:Yeah, and I had to cast these porn stars and this whole thing.
Guest:And I was, like, in a van with porn stars, driving to tape a bit, going, like, I guess this is my life.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was great, because it was also, you know, at that time, I think my monthly nut was, like, $1,000, you know, like $500 rent.
Guest:Like, I had nothing to pay for it, so all I did was just...
Marc:have fun and save money and then eventually it's one of those things where somebody like your age gets that gig and you're into comedy what maybe three or four years yeah right so you're not really you know you're not doing big comedy gigs and you get a writing gig which is a job that comics do and you're a writer and
Guest:That's really all I wanted to do, even when I started stand-up, was write.
Marc:You knew that going into stand-up, that this was a path to comedy writing?
Guest:I started really doing stand-up because I wanted to see if what I was writing was funny.
Guest:And I mostly started with one-liners.
Guest:That's what I remember.
Guest:It was an easy kind of comedy to test in a weird way.
Marc:Your ability to write something funny.
Guest:Yeah, you get up on stage, you read the jokes, like almost as a list.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And get off and go, okay, yeah, I wrote funny things, like I can do this.
Marc:But your goal in your mind was always to write.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's interesting.
Guest:Yeah, it was not, stand-up wasn't a big goal until other people, I think, thought, other professional managers, agents, whatever, around me in my early 20s were kind of,
Guest:pushing me to do it more.
Guest:But it was never my main drive.
Guest:I never thought I wanted to be a big, famous stand-up comedian.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Really.
Guest:I wanted to be a writer and figure that out.
Guest:And figure out how that worked.
Guest:Because growing up, you don't know how people write comedy.
Marc:No idea.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm not sure I do now.
Marc:I kind of do, but I never worked on the kind of shows you worked on.
Marc:So you do cranky anchors and you were able to sort of like start to realize, you know, sketches and characters and then you do Kimmel and you're just hammering out fucking monologue jokes and sketch ideas.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And how long were you over there?
Guest:I was there for a couple years.
Guest:That was like when I went off my medication.
Marc:But that's hard work.
Marc:I think what I was getting at was that there's a judgment placed on younger people.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Or certainly in the stand-up world.
Marc:So I think the trickiest thing about being a stand-up and having a crew of stand-ups is that when you get that gig, you're up against people going like, what the fuck?
Marc:Right.
Marc:Why the fuck did she get that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I think what people don't realize is that it's an insane amount of work.
Marc:It's very demanding.
Marc:It is.
Marc:I mean, how many jokes a day do you have to churn out for monologue?
Guest:Well, I mean, it depends, you know, Fallon, when I was there later, that was the most jokes, I don't even remember the number, but, you know, I was just doing monologue there, so that was, you know, it was a little more of a, your focus is so, like, myopic as far as just current event, current event, current event, topical story, topical, you know, and you're just writing the same thing all day, you know, and it's, I think it's easy to burn out of those kind of jobs.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or it's repetitive.
Marc:Unless you just look at it as math.
Guest:Right.
Marc:So, all right.
Marc:So you do, all right.
Marc:So you do Kimmel and then you're like, I'm doing good.
Marc:No more pills for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's exactly what happened.
Guest:And I made it like honest.
Guest:I had tried to go off it a few times and only lasted like two weeks and I was back and I was like, all right, that was stupid.
Guest:And then this time I think just off of pure adrenaline, I...
Guest:Oh, you just get... I don't know.
Guest:You just start... I mean, for me, it was a matter of not getting past the initial, like, withdrawal and feeling crazy.
Guest:Like, there's just a matter... That's just going to happen when you go off medication or on medication or try to transition from one to another.
Guest:So I never got past that initial stage.
Guest:Then once I did, I think, like, pure adrenaline just carried me, like, six more months.
Guest:And...
Guest:And I was just spiraling the whole time.
Marc:How did it manifest itself?
Guest:Deep, like, antisocial depression and, you know...
Guest:Couldn't sleep, couldn't eat, couldn't.
Guest:I started working out obsessively, which I had never done before.
Guest:I mean, usually food and exercise and that stuff.
Guest:Because you thought that that would make you feel better?
Guest:It was a way to alleviate the anxiety.
Marc:Was it that when you started boxing?
Guest:No, boxing was after that.
Guest:I would literally just go to the ballys in Hollywood and get on an elliptical or something and just go for like an hour until I could sleep.
Guest:Not eventually, yeah.
Guest:I was like...
Guest:At some point, I was down to like 100 pounds.
Guest:And I'm almost 60 tall.
Guest:Because you had no appetite?
Guest:Yeah, I think it just started that way.
Guest:And I think it just compounded itself.
Guest:I was so out of control in my head.
Guest:With what, though?
Marc:Just that, like, I suck or, like, I can't?
Guest:Just a complete feeling of pointlessness and what am I doing and why am I doing it?
Guest:And, you know, I think there was also part of me that got things earlier than I thought I would and didn't know what was next.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And... And then without medication, that would just... Without medication, I was just a disaster and ended up...
Guest:ultimately ended up having to go to a grownup, a grownup psychiatric facility.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah, that was.
Marc:Who brought you there?
Marc:Who stepped in?
Guest:Someone tried to bring me there.
Guest:I left and then I went back by myself.
Guest:Like I was sort of told to go to this place.
Marc:A friend?
Guest:Who was it originally?
Guest:Yeah, a friend originally said go to this place.
Guest:I went.
Guest:It scared me.
Guest:I left.
Marc:What scared you?
Guest:The type of insanity that I saw.
Marc:Immediately?
Guest:Immediately, yeah.
Marc:What was it?
Guest:It was just a very manic, possibly homeless person chatting me up in the waiting area.
Guest:And I was like, this is not me.
Marc:Oh, you didn't even get to the desk?
Guest:No.
Guest:No, I was sitting around there for a while, and I said, I'm going home.
Guest:And then a couple days later, I was at the end of it.
Guest:I was staying at a friend's house.
Guest:I was being watched by friends.
Guest:People were afraid for me.
Marc:It was very... Were they afraid you were going to hurt yourself?
Guest:I think so, yeah.
Guest:Were you?
Guest:I don't think so.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I didn't have the means to do anything, and I don't think I would have been the type of person to jump off a bridge or anything like that.
Guest:I was very sick, and I basically told Jimmy that I had to, in tears, I basically told him to fire me.
Marc:So you were still working?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did people you were working with know?
Guest:I think they knew when I started to lose a lot of weight.
Marc:But your behavior wasn't erratic?
Marc:Jimmy wasn't like, what's going on with you?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Let's have a sit down.
Guest:Honestly, to this day, I don't know.
Guest:I think that I've always been pretty good at faking it when things aren't totally right in my head.
Marc:Were you the only woman in the writing room?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Guest:Molly McNerney was there.
Guest:She was a writer's assistant at the time.
Guest:She's now the head writer.
Guest:So she was in the room.
Marc:But you were the only woman.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:With what, seven guys?
Guest:Probably like 10.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But that was such a weird time in my life because I had so much and was probably the most unhappy I'd ever been.
Marc:That's hard to reconcile.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Part of you must have thought, this should be good.
Guest:Right, but that was the... I'd say that experience was, even more so than when I was 16, was so profound in kind of telling me, like, all right, this is something you might have to deal with the rest of your life, and you've got to be smart about it.
Marc:Vigilant.
Guest:Yeah, very vigilant, and honestly, like...
Guest:I mean, I was telling Kimmel, like, I was like, you should fire me.
Guest:I'm not going to be back.
Guest:This is, you know, basic kind of just let me go.
Guest:And I think he had probably been someone who had put so many people in some way or another through rehab or whatever.
Guest:He was and he was older and he saw I didn't think I was going to get better.
Guest:And clearly he knew more than I did.
Guest:And probably the best thing anyone's ever done for me was what he did when I was not well, which was like he kept me paid and was like, you'll be back.
Guest:And I said I wouldn't be.
Guest:And I was like two months later, I think.
Marc:He just said, take the time you need.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you have a job here.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's pretty remarkable, I think.
Guest:I mean, nobody, you know, when you find somebody like that loyal.
Guest:That's why I've always kind of been weird even about leaving there because I left soon after I came back and it was just a matter of...
Guest:still having a lot of those what do I do next kind of feelings, and what do I want to do, and what will I be happy doing, and bigger questions than just what's the next show.
Guest:I just had a little bit of a, I got better, and then just needed a break.
Marc:So you went away for two months?
Guest:I went away for two months, came back,
Marc:And what, they just leveled you out on medicine?
Guest:Honestly, they put me back on what I'd gone off of, and within like three weeks, I think, I was probably already 50, 60% better, and then it just got- They fattened you up?
Guest:Fattened me up, yeah.
Guest:I was so, I was just, I don't know.
Guest:It was funny because a friend actually said something to me and I, you always think like, when do you say shit to your friends?
Guest:Like, hey, you look sick or you look whatever.
Guest:And a friend told me, you know, you got a problem.
Guest:And I was like, I do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you got out and you went back to work for a couple months.
Guest:I went back to work for a little while.
Guest:I can't remember exactly how long.
Guest:And then I just kind of said, I'm going to go.
Marc:And what did Jimmy say?
Guest:I think he was cool about it.
Guest:I can't remember exactly, but it's hard when the person's not leaving to do something else when they're just leaving to figure things out.
Marc:Right.
Guest:What do you say?
Guest:But at that point, you're what?
Marc:You're 24 years old.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it's a natural moment.
Marc:It's a natural time to do that.
Guest:Yeah, so I literally put all my stuff in storage and went to London for a month or some weird town outside of London and just was alone for a month and tried to pace, figure out what I wanted to do next.
Marc:No one said, maybe that's not the best idea?
Marc:That was your plan?
Marc:I'm going to rent a country house?
Guest:No, I rented a... I didn't even rent.
Guest:My friend just happened to have a flat that was empty in like Balham.
Guest:I don't know if you know where Balham is.
Guest:I don't know anything about it.
Guest:It's south of London.
Guest:And I just... It was a free... Basically, it was a free place to stay in another country.
Guest:And I thought, that sounds fun.
Marc:So, you got it together then?
Marc:What did you decide then?
Guest:Yeah, I decided that...
Thank you.
Guest:Well, I decided that it was kind of okay to not know what I was going to do next, but also that I would never... That was my last attempt at thinking I could will myself out of depression and not need medication.
Marc:But you were on medication.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And you accepted it.
Guest:And I accepted it.
Marc:That was what the London period yielded.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's good.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then you came back and got a job where?
Guest:I didn't work for... I'm trying to think of... Now I'm getting into the Scotland territory, so I'm trying to figure it out.
Guest:Now I'm ready to ask you, where was I when I... When you what?
Guest:I don't know what I was doing.
Marc:When we dated for a month?
Guest:Yeah, where was I?
Guest:Was I working?
Guest:I remember... No, because I did a pilot.
Guest:I did a couple pilots, I remember.
Guest:Because I think I told you about one and you didn't seem happy for me.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:What was that, like 2007?
Marc:Probably.
Marc:I should know when my wife left me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:2006.
Marc:Was it 2006, I think?
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:And, yeah, we were hanging out at Amy Mann's pool.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You felt bad for me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You were like, this guy's in trouble.
Marc:Let him sit at the pool.
Marc:I fucked that up.
Marc:I fucked the pool situation up.
Guest:Yeah, I also thought I shouldn't be alone with you.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I was like, this seems healthy.
Marc:No, I didn't feel like I should be alone with you.
Marc:And I think we avoided that for a while.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And we just did the pool thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that was very nice.
Marc:It was helpful.
Marc:And then I think for about a month or so, we were just hanging out at the pool and palling around.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then something happened.
Guest:And then some stuff happened.
Marc:Some stuff happened.
Marc:And we were like, oh, what's happening now?
Marc:I can't do it.
Marc:I'm in trouble.
Marc:I can't even imagine what an emotional fucking disaster I was.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I can.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'd like to apologize again for whatever trouble I caused you in a very genuine way.
Guest:You want to make another amends?
Guest:Is this the second one?
Guest:I think it's like the fourth.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'd like to make a public amends.
Guest:I think I cried twice over eggs at the House of Pies having the same amends or something.
Marc:Once at the House of Pies, once at the Comedy Store.
Marc:Were those the only two times you cried in public?
Guest:No, I cried in Scotland.
Marc:Same thing, right?
Guest:No, that was from yelling.
Marc:From me yelling?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Oh.
Marc:Sorry.
Guest:I'm sorry.
Marc:Maybe if I made a specific amends, if you could refresh my memory of each time that I...
Guest:You did scream in my face and tell me that I didn't support your voice on stage.
Marc:No, come on.
Guest:It's one of my favorite things that I remember in my whole life.
Guest:Really?
Guest:I mean, in hindsight, it's my favorite.
Guest:At the time, I didn't know what was happening.
Marc:I didn't know what was happening.
Guest:Oh.
Marc:Your too cool for school attitude backfired.
Guest:What do you mean too cool for school attitude?
Guest:I was like, I go to your show.
Guest:I was a nice show.
Guest:Go to the bar after, walk home, and then boom.
Marc:You don't support my voice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You want to know what that was?
Marc:What?
Marc:Because I'm doing some research on this now.
Marc:It was me assuming that your tone was dismissive.
Marc:And it may not have been.
Marc:It probably wasn't.
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I would imagine you would tell me no it wasn't I very much enjoyed what you were doing is that what you would say I did very much I think I kept trying to tell you I enjoyed it because it was you were there with Kirk and like the audiences weren't like it was like a weird setup and you didn't seem happy so I kept telling I kept I felt like I kept trying to make you happier yeah I was I was like it was depressing
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I went back to Scotland the next year and doing my own show.
Guest:And that was depressing.
Guest:I mean, it was, you know, it was relentless.
Marc:But I somehow made you the enemy in that moment because I here's the fucking thing.
Marc:And I don't know what you're learning.
Marc:Maybe you can help me out because you're a little more solid with this shit than I am.
Marc:that like my own fucking embarrassment and shame and self judgment, you know, was probably overflowing.
Marc:And then when I, when I heard your tone, I put it on you.
Marc:I'm like, no, you're, you don't support.
Marc:You're not excited.
Marc:Why aren't you like, there was nothing you could have done to make me feel better.
Guest:And I was literally like going back to your home in a cab.
Guest:I was clearly trying to make you happier.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:like there wasn't i know i i'm sorry i uh yeah i i decided that uh that you were um you were judging me as hard as i was judging myself oh and uh i just lumped you in with the crowd that was against me within i understand so i did let you into my heart it's not the right way was i
Marc:It was a complete disaster.
Guest:You were in the wrong room.
Guest:A life altering.
Guest:Never again.
Guest:Like the Holocaust?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Wait, really?
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:A little bit.
Guest:But I was very inexperienced and fragile.
Marc:I was fragile and overly experienced.
Guest:Yeah, but I think sometimes
Guest:I was going to say, I think sometimes I will apologize just to make things right, or I will take... It's actually a thing I used to do with my mom a lot, but just say sorry till it's fixed.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Even if it's got nothing to do with you.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I think that exposes a soft spot, and I think sometimes when you... A lot of people, they'll see that they won, and they'll be happy that they won, but sometimes I used to think that if you saw a soft spot, you'd attack it more.
Guest:I got to be like, I'm sorry.
Guest:And then I think it would end by saying I'm sorry, even though I hadn't done anything.
Guest:But then I would just keep going and I didn't understand why I kept going.
Marc:Well, I was like, you know, three or four months out of a marriage.
Marc:I was emotionally devastated.
Marc:And completely, like now, you know, having just gone through another breakup,
Marc:The amount of distrust and the amount of anger and the amount of self, you know, blame and all that stuff.
Marc:I mean, I was coming at you with a lot of garbage that had nothing to do with you.
Marc:Is that rationalizing?
Guest:No.
Marc:Oh.
Guest:That sounds right.
Marc:So what did you learn from it?
Marc:Because I'd like to know outside of never again.
Marc:Might as well get personal.
Marc:We're in it.
Guest:No, I think, yeah, I think I had to do a lot of searching about why I picked you.
Guest:Not about you and what you were doing, because you were being you, but I had to figure out why I was gravitating towards somebody like you.
Marc:Had you gravitated towards somebody like me before?
Guest:I think I've definitely gravitated towards people who are unavailable emotionally.
Marc:But not necessarily self-destructive or... Yeah, I think it was... Or perhaps angry.
Guest:Angry.
Guest:The anger was the thing that was... That was the theme.
Guest:No, no, no.
Guest:Your anger was the thing I think that fucked me up the most because I just... I can't deal with being yelled at.
Guest:That really breaks me down in a very heavy way.
Marc:And I was the only one who did that?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:God damn it.
Guest:But I also thought, I can say this now, I had such strong feelings that I was so conflicted as to what's wrong with me that I care so much about somebody who's so shitty to me, basically.
Marc:And let's make it clear, this all happened within a month.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was all very quick, and that was an open wound.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And what I felt...
Marc:it's like that shit was so not about you.
Marc:It was so not.
Marc:So what did you come up with?
Marc:Why do you gravitate towards people who are unavailable and perhaps angry?
Guest:Because I'm, I mean, according to the people I've given thousands of dollars to to tell me this, I, you know, I am afraid of things that will work out anyway.
Guest:So I keep myself protected by only involving myself with people who are not available.
Marc:Okay, but is there some component of it that when somebody is spinning around or just the other part of unavailable, I mean, you have dated other comics and comic writers and stuff.
Marc:Is there something about somebody who's sort of painfully self-centered that gives you a sort of break?
Guest:No, I mean, I'm attracted to people who are funny, and that's, you know, smart, funny, interesting people.
Guest:Like, there's a huge...
Guest:I think that was part of it with you.
Guest:And then on top of it, a lot of those people tend to be damaged.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm so glad I'm beyond all that.
Marc:Like I'm just fucking nailing it now.
Guest:You're on top of it.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Didn't sweep.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Why?
Marc:I'm just having a hard time.
Marc:No, it's good.
Marc:It's good.
Marc:It's just like, I just don't know if I'm gonna get it right.
Marc:Are you getting it right?
Marc:Are you better?
Guest:I think I'm better at not beating myself up for the things I do wrong.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:I think I'm better at being alone, which is a little scary.
Marc:You're okay with it.
Marc:It's not a condition of a mental... It's not like I can't go out.
Marc:It's like I'm okay.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But I'm also a little bit worried that like, oh, I'm so content being alone that I'm not sure if and when I'll meet somebody.
Guest:But...
Guest:I think I'm okay.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:You seem okay.
Marc:You seem pretty good.
Marc:You're renting hotel rooms and surfing, going to Costa Rica, taking some classes.
Guest:I'm trying to do things that I think are good for me, but I also am such a, I wish I didn't isolate as much, and I wish I went out more, and I wish I socialized.
Guest:You used to be everywhere for a while.
Guest:Yeah, for a while.
Marc:You're taking pictures, wearing hats.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Making the scene wearing hats taking pictures younger than I was younger I think I got a lot of kind of partying out of my system But now I'm I'm realizing like I'm not you know, I mean then 32 I'm not ancient, but I don't go places or do things anymore So I'm trying to do that more you still box No, but I watch boxing like you know all the time.
Marc:What was the compulsion to boxing who got you into that?
Guest:I got into it Amy was going to Amy I was going to a gym a man was boxing she was boxing and I was going to a different gym and then I basically just started going to her gym and it was nice to have a friend you know we would just that was when I wasn't working that was between kind of the Kimmel and Fallon years and we just box every day which is great it's great you know you guys still cool
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I saw her on New Year's, I think.
Guest:It was the last, yeah.
Marc:And then, okay, so the next job was the Fallon job, really?
Guest:Pretty much.
Guest:I mean, because for a few years there, I did a couple pilots acting.
Guest:I didn't go.
Guest:I did jobs.
Guest:I basically just said, I'll do whatever job doesn't last more than three months.
Guest:I kind of just wanted to dabble.
Guest:Award shows and that?
Guest:Yeah, award shows and things like that.
Guest:And then when I got the call about Fallon, I just took it.
Guest:I didn't really want to go back to late night world, but it was a new show.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So that's what was exciting to me.
Guest:It was like trying to create something.
Guest:Get it on its feet.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the idea of being in New York was kind of exciting.
Guest:And I just.
Marc:I remember that move.
Marc:We were kind of talking.
Marc:We tried to talk a few times.
Guest:Tried to.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What?
Guest:Nothing.
Marc:I mean, you know.
Guest:No, we tried.
Marc:It's always been a little tricky.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But.
Marc:We're talking now.
Guest:We are.
Marc:Finally.
Guest:Took a few years.
Guest:Five years, six years.
Guest:Jesus.
Marc:Feel all right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Good.
Marc:So, okay, so you went to New York and then, so how did the, and you had a good time with Jimmy.
Marc:He's a good guy.
Guest:Jimmy's a good guy.
Guest:Yeah, it was great.
Guest:It was a great gig, except I realized really quickly that I missed LA.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I mean, I stayed for two years.
Marc:And you didn't want to be in that format.
Yeah.
Guest:I did.
Guest:It was fun because it was not like paint by numbers yet.
Guest:It was very fresh and new and what's Jimmy's voice and what's Jimmy's voice in the monologue and trying to utilize all these great skills he has in the monologue.
Guest:And it was a fun writing experience.
Guest:And it was a fun stand-up experience to an extent, like trying to get it going up at the cellar and things like that that I kind of...
Guest:I romanticized a little bit about New York and, you know, until you're going home from work and sleeping from, you know, nine to midnight and then getting up to do one a.m.
Guest:spot at the cellar and then coming back home and then getting to sleep.
Guest:That schedule just started to be too grueling.
Marc:Yeah, New York is a very taxing experience, even when you love it.
Marc:Just to get somewhere, you have to be in that zone, and it requires all of your senses all of the time.
Marc:I'm going outside now, here it comes.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:It's crazy.
Marc:It's exhausting.
Guest:Yeah, and there are people who do it so well.
Guest:There's people who, you look at people and go, oh, that comic is built for New York.
Guest:They're built for set to set to set to set.
Marc:Yeah, you go through it.
Marc:It's a good training ground, but everybody kind of wears out.
Marc:There's only a couple of those guys that really do that for the entire life.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:One, Dave Attell.
Guest:Dave Attell.
Marc:all i it's funny as i was saying it i'm just picturing like david like a hood up like walking you know just putting out a cigarette as he walked in what's up yeah i think he's off the smokes i know he's off the booze he's off the booze yeah he looks better i haven't seen him in a while all right so now let's get up to speed here whitney cummings your uh your benefactor
Guest:Yeah, I guess in a way.
Guest:Initially?
Guest:In a way, yeah.
Guest:I mean, I think she's the reason that I met with my boss to work on Two Bro Girls.
Marc:She created the show but is no longer involved.
Guest:Well, she wrote the pilot with Michael.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And she doesn't come in, but she writes scripts sometimes.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Oh, she still does that?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And is it good to see her occasionally?
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I don't have any like we don't hang out.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You know, but she's a worker.
Guest:She's a she's a hard ass worker.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, there are you.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, she's kind of one of those people who works so hard that you, you know, there's just people that you can look at and you go, I could stand to have a little bit more of that, whatever that is.
Guest:But she's a hard worker and she's really smart.
Marc:Chelsea Handler is the same way.
Marc:I mean, they work their fucking ass off.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's insane.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I don't have it in me.
Marc:And it always fucking irritates me with Whitney and Chelsea especially because they get flack for whatever.
Guest:Right.
Marc:And it's like whatever you think about them, they've earned every cent.
Marc:They work their fucking guts out.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And it sort of saddens me
Marc:That there still is that thing.
Marc:Dude saying like, fuck her, bitch.
Marc:I see it when I post a woman who I talk to.
Marc:The comments are different.
Marc:They're judged differently.
Marc:It's annoying.
Guest:Interesting.
Marc:Why?
Guest:No, because now I'm curious as to what people are going to... Oh, boy.
Marc:But, I mean, what do you... Because there is... I feel like there's more women writing in comedy now than there has been in a long fucking time, if not ever.
Guest:Way more than even when I started, what, 11, 10, 11 years ago.
Guest:Like, there's...
Guest:staff's full of women.
Guest:I mean, the staff I'm on now, even sitcom, not late night show, but it's, we're more than 50%, you know, women.
Guest:It's like half women, half men, half gay, half straight.
Guest:It's very, you know, it's a big diverse mix.
Marc:Now, do you find that is by virtue of talent or do you feel like executives are honoring quotas?
Guest:No, there's no quotas.
Guest:I think some, I think quotas are sort of
Guest:Some studios have them, some don't.
Marc:Some networks have them, some don't.
Marc:But some maybe are unspoken.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right?
Guest:Yeah, this just happens to be the way that everything sort of unfolded.
Guest:These were the people that... I know Michael wanted to hire people that had been broke.
Guest:That was a big... I think that was a part of it.
Guest:But yeah, we have kind of a ragtag group.
Guest:But I had never... Not until Fallon had I even worked with another woman on a show.
Marc:Really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did that upset you?
Guest:I think in the beginning it was exciting in a weird way, in a way to be the only woman.
Guest:There's an element of like... You were a jock and a boxer.
Guest:Yeah, and especially at Kimmel, it's a little more of a masculine... Like, you know, those guys are more... They're into sports and it's...
Guest:it was less of like the Harvard vibe and more of, you know, dude dudes, dude dudes.
Guest:And I really liked that.
Guest:I'm comfortable in that kind of, uh, environment.
Guest:So I was, it was fine for me.
Guest:And then I was excited to, to work with another check out filing.
Guest:And then, and then this job is like all, you know, have you dealt with the Harvard vibe?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I'm cool.
Guest:I mean, you know, I started like, it's funny because I could even divide the people I started with as like, there were the store guys.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Dave Anthony, Ari, you know, Nick Yusuf.
Guest:Dave Taylor.
Guest:And then like my Harvard, like Dan Minson, BJ Novak and I were really, really close.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And we were all sort of coming up at the same time.
Marc:Right.
Guest:My first job really was.
Marc:You know what's interesting about those two groups is that one group seemed to have a plan.
Yeah.
Marc:The other group, I'm not sure there's a plan that's right there.
Marc:There's a profound difference in what the Harvard guys did with their stand-up experience and what those other guys did.
Guest:But those guys are, you know, I mean, everyone's, the great thing is like everyone's still doing stand-up or whatever they want to do in their own way.
Guest:Like, you know...
Marc:Well, there's a real difference, and you know this to be true, too, because it was not your agenda, is that there is still this very real, strangely mythic commitment to the idea of what a stand-up comic's life is like for one who only wants to do stand-up comedy.
Mm-hmm.
Marc:and then there's a new generation i think they've always been around some guys you know whether they'll admit it or not use stand up as a platform like you do to figure out how to be funny and then to take that talent and and and utilize it however it best serves them without the commitment to the dues paying the the legacy of what real stand-up is and all that other that has always been the way it goes yeah but that's the real difference
Guest:Well, I don't think, I mean, I think I paid my dues in L.A., but if you're going to, like... See, I wasn't even saying that about you.
Guest:No, no, no, but I mean, like, but I certainly didn't in regards to, like, the road.
Guest:Like, that was just a thing that I knew, I knew I didn't want to live on the road.
Guest:I couldn't, I don't think it would have been good for me.
Marc:Right, but you also knew that your talent as a funny person was better suited for you and what you wanted to do with writing.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And stand up with something you can do and are good at and can do when you want to do it.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's not like, you know, like I'm putting all my fucking eggs in this basket.
Marc:Right.
Marc:The one that's got almost no guarantee of working out.
Marc:There's a practicality to that.
Marc:You know, the psychology of the two different types of approaches, you know, I kind of know what it is, but it's definitely different.
Marc:Between people that understand what the talent of being funny is and what they're going to do with that talent to those who are sort of being dragged by this idea or this very specific way of life.
Guest:Yeah, and I have friends doing all of it, and I have a huge amount of respect for people who can just kind of, especially road guys, guys who've just been doing it forever.
Guest:To me, that's a kind of discipline, and the motivation to still want to do it every night to me is wild.
Marc:It is wild.
Marc:I guess it's a pretty good broad way to put it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:There's a lot of things going on there.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:So you're on a hit show and you're solid over there.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, I'm on my third year on that show.
Guest:I mean, I don't know what the next thing's gonna be.
Marc:Probably another year of that show.
Guest:Maybe.
Marc:Do you wanna write a movie?
Marc:Do you wanna act more?
Marc:Do you wanna take a year off?
Guest:I would love to, you know, I mean, I think I'd love to do what a lot of people wanna do, which is create something and have someone make it.
Marc:I thought you were going to say nothing.
Guest:No, I don't, I could never do, I can't do nothing.
Guest:I need some kind of structure.
Guest:Drift.
Guest:Drift.
Guest:But, but yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to have my own idea and have someone say, we'll give you money to make that.
Marc:And hire who you want.
Guest:Yeah, hire your friends.
Marc:Well, I hope that happens for you, Morgan.
Guest:Thanks.
Marc:And I have love for you, and I feel a renewed sense of... I feel bad.
Guest:Do you?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And I'm glad we talked.
Marc:In all seriousness.
All right.
Okay.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:I hope I didn't bum anybody out at the beginning.
Marc:I love you all.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Get that app.
Marc:Get the free app, the free WTF app.
Marc:Upload to the premium.
Marc:You can get it all.
Marc:Get some new premium content.
Marc:Me and my producer and partner, Brendan McDonald, are giving you a little bit of a primer to what we think the deep cuts of WTF are.
Marc:The episodes that some people might overlook because they might not know the people.
Marc:We're giving you a little behind the scenes insight into that.
Marc:We're doing that every week for the first, you know, in chunks of 25 episodes.
Marc:You get that.
Marc:If you become a premium subscriber to WTF, there will be more premium content in the very near future.
Marc:Okay, man.
Marc:I'll talk to you Thursday.
Marc:I'm going to New York.
Marc:And I got to go check on my cat to see if she ripped her stitches out.
Marc:And rest in peace.
Marc:Hope Seymour Hoffman.
Marc:It's a tragedy.
Marc:I'm going to miss you.
Marc:Boomer lives!