Episode 464 - Harry Dean Stanton / Sophie Huber
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:All right, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuck sticks?
Marc:What the fuckstables?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:This is Mark Barron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:Thank you for joining me.
Marc:I appreciate you being here.
Marc:I am fairly exhausted, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to put out a good show for you.
Marc:That doesn't mean I'm not going to show up for work here.
Marc:See what happens when you hang out with Andy Kinler?
Marc:That doesn't mean that I'm not going to fly, fly, fly.
Marc:Bah, bah, bah, bah.
Marc:Andy's been working with me on my show, Marin, that airs on IFC, but is also now airing, airing, available on the Netflix in the America.
Marc:Yeah, so you can watch the entire first season on Netflix if you haven't involved yourself with that, or if you missed it on IFC.
Marc:I'm thrilled that people are digging the show.
Marc:How about some more Marc Marin publicity?
Marc:Okay, I'll do it.
Marc:You don't have to twist my arm.
Marc:If you didn't get to see my special Thinkie Paint on Netflix because you're not a Netflix person or what have you,
Marc:Well, Thinkie Paine's available.
Marc:You can go to Amazon and get it.
Marc:But I'm going to do a big release.
Marc:I'm going to do a big release on Monday.
Marc:A big release.
Marc:So this is like the pre-release.
Marc:Okay, so let's play it like this.
Marc:Hey, you know, I got this special.
Marc:If you didn't see the Thinkie Paine, between me and you, it's available at Amazon, the DVD of it.
Marc:Okay, I'm going to put it on the website and everything else on Monday.
Marc:So this is just between us.
Marc:All right, so you can tell your friends, but don't tell everybody.
Marc:All right?
Marc:Did I mention that Harry Dean Stanton... I interviewed Harry Dean Stanton today.
Marc:I went to his house.
Marc:And after that, I was so...
Marc:Troubled on some level that I interviewed Sophie Huber, the director of the documentary Partly Fiction that she directed about Harry Dean.
Marc:It's more of a cinematic portrait of Harry Dean.
Marc:It's quite a beautiful movie.
Marc:But I needed to get her in here after I talked to him to help me understand him.
Marc:Turns out she's been trying to understand him for decades or a long time.
Marc:And that we were sort of in the same boat.
Marc:I'm not poo-pooing the situation or the interview because I did get to sit next to Harry Dean Stanton at his house and watch him smoke cigarettes while I tried to get him to answer questions.
Marc:And there is nothing not amazing about sitting next to Harry Dean Stanton and watching him smoke cigarettes.
Marc:Engaging in a sort of relatively back and forth conversation would have been nice.
Marc:But you can't always get what you want, folks, no matter how hard you try.
Marc:Again, I'm not knocking it.
Marc:I think Harry Dean gave me Harry Dean or he gave me the Harry Dean that he wants to give.
Marc:But I can't say it was a smooth sailing and the most comfortable interview that I've ever done.
Marc:But again, sitting next to Harry Dean's den and watching him smoke cigarettes was a great thing up close.
Marc:Okay, let's get down to brass tacks.
Marc:What does that mean?
Marc:Dozens of people sent me this article.
Marc:Comedians may be more disposed to high levels of psychotic personality traits.
Marc:No shit.
Marc:What do you think this is, some sort of mystery that some comedians are a little troubled?
Marc:I'm glad that they did a survey, that they've substantiated it with some hokum.
Marc:Researchers, this is filed by Keith Perry.
Marc:Comedians may be disposed to high levels of psychotic personality traits.
Marc:A study has found research published in the Britain Journal of Psychiatry found that an unusually an unusual personality structure with traits similar to bipolar disorder could be the secret of being funny.
Marc:Tell my dad, please.
Marc:I've been if this if this article does anything, could you please prove to my father that I'm not like him?
Marc:I love him, but I'm not like him.
Marc:I'm not bipolar.
Marc:Apparently, I'm just funny.
Marc:The researchers said the belief that creativity is associated with madness has increasingly been researched by psychologists and psychiatrists, yet added, quote, comedy and humor have been largely neglected, unquote.
Marc:Obviously, not all comedians are like this, but the trend does seem that seem these personality traits are more common.
Marc:It is the idea of the sad clown.
Marc:Well, thank you, genius.
Marc:Glad you fleshed that out.
Marc:Those with bipolar disorder can be prone to comedy as it mimics the comic's ability to combine, quote, ideas or categories of thought to form new and original connections, unquote.
Marc:Oh, so you just explained creativity.
Marc:Wonderful.
Marc:The questionnaire measured four personality aspects.
Marc:Okay, let's do it.
Marc:Let's do the questionnaire with these aspects.
Marc:Unusual experiences such as belief in telepathy and paranormal events.
Marc:I've been there.
Marc:I'm out of that game now.
Marc:Okay, I've pulled out, but I understand it.
Marc:Not saying it's not possible, but I'm saying that when I think about it, it leads nowhere good.
Marc:Okay, that's right.
Marc:I'm reading your mind right now and the ships are coming.
Marc:But again, that's between us.
Marc:Difficulty in focusing thoughts or distractibility.
Marc:Difficulty in focusing thoughts or distractibility.
Marc:I don't have that.
Marc:An avoidance of intimacy.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Not with you guys, though.
Marc:But, you know, with people that are immediately in my life and close to me on a one-to-one basis.
Marc:But with you guys, we're cool, man.
Marc:I mean, I was naked last week.
Marc:A tendency towards impulsive and antisocial behavior.
Marc:These people can go fuck themselves because this is a ridiculous test.
Marc:Fuck them and fuck tests and fuck corporations and fuck my parents, how they get lumped in.
Marc:So no, I don't have that one.
Marc:The comedian scored particularly high on personality traits such as being unsociable and depressive, as well as more extrovert, manic-like traits.
Marc:Well, I think that this is a... Whatever.
Marc:It's a report.
Marc:You can't throw away... Everyone was like, hey, look, comedians are psychotic.
Marc:No.
Marc:If you read the DSM... The DSM... The big book...
Marc:of disorders everybody's got a little something don't hang labels on people don't hang a label on a person they might have some of this they might have some of that but no one's all of this and when you meet somebody who's all of that you know it some people are a little narcissistic some people are a little sociopathic some people a little psychotic some people a little bipolar some people have serious problems more specific problems but uh don't hang the labels people
Marc:What guy who has broken up with a woman has not been called a sociopath?
Marc:That word gets a little too much play.
Marc:Pow, I just shit my pants.
Marc:Watch it.
Marc:Watch it.
Marc:Look, I'm just saying.
Marc:A real narcissist is creepy.
Marc:I know.
Marc:I lived with one.
Marc:Grew up with one.
Marc:Difficult.
Marc:Real sociopaths, creepy.
Marc:Super creepy.
Marc:You know who you are.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:You know what?
Marc:You don't actually.
Marc:Real bipolar people, it's a heavy burden.
Marc:No doubt.
Marc:But what I'd like to extrapolate or glean from this study is that I'm not bipolar.
Marc:I'm funny.
Marc:And I've been diagnosed by a study.
Marc:Similar to bipolar traits.
Marc:But not bipolar.
Marc:Okay?
Marc:Not bipolar.
Marc:Funny.
Marc:Don't need the medicine.
Marc:All right, let's talk about Harry Dean for a minute.
Marc:All right, because...
Marc:This is one of those interviews where it was tricky.
Marc:I saw the film, Sophie Huber's film, partly fiction, and I loved it.
Marc:I love Harry Dean.
Marc:Who doesn't love Harry Dean who likes movies or who is alive?
Marc:Harry Dean has been this sort of enigmatic figure in film for decades.
Marc:The first time I remember seeing him maybe was in Aliens.
Marc:But then you see him everywhere.
Marc:You see him everywhere.
Marc:He was in Cool Hand Luke.
Marc:He was in Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid.
Marc:He was in Dillinger.
Marc:He was in Cockfighter, the Monty Hellman film.
Marc:Godfather Part II is the FBI guy.
Marc:Remember?
Marc:Remember?
Marc:He was in the Missouri Breaks.
Marc:Great fucking movie.
Marc:Marlon Brando, Jack Nicholson.
Marc:Great movie.
Marc:Paris, Texas was a big one.
Marc:Repo Man.
Marc:He was recently on Big Love as the main creepy Mormon dude.
Marc:He's one of America's greatest character actors.
Marc:If you listen to my Ed Begley episode, him and Ed Begley used to hang out and had a great time back in the day, late 60s and 70s.
Marc:And here's my point.
Marc:I'm sure Harry Dean Stanton has a few people in his life that he talks to.
Marc:I was not one of them, really.
Marc:Let me set the scene for you.
Marc:So I get an opportunity to interview Harry Dean because of the film, partly fiction.
Marc:I watched the film, and quite honestly, it's a beautiful portrait of this man, but it is not a heavy dialogue movie.
Marc:Even in the documentary, this cat ain't talking much.
Marc:So after I saw that, after I'd set up the interview, I'm like, well, if that's the most she got out of him, this is not going to be easy.
Marc:But I want to meet Harry Dean.
Marc:I want to hang out with Harry Dean.
Marc:So I go to Harry Dean's house up in the hills.
Marc:And, you know, I go in and there he is.
Marc:He's just waking up.
Marc:Basically, he's been up maybe an hour.
Marc:He's smoking cigarettes.
Marc:He's having some coffee.
Marc:I set up my mics.
Marc:He's old, man.
Marc:He's like in his 80s.
Marc:And he's got this little house up there.
Marc:And and I just start in and I'm not getting much.
Marc:But if you listen, if you sort of read between the lines, you will get Harry Dean.
Marc:You will get the Harry Dean that Harry Dean wants you to know.
Marc:And I thought it was an amazing experience.
Marc:So I became very frustrated and flustered and left feeling defeated, but still curious.
Marc:But even this morning, you know, I was it was last night.
Marc:Actually, I went to bed and I was overwhelmed with a melancholy.
Marc:A word I like to use because I started thinking about my life and everything I've done in my life and everyone I've met in my life and all the different phases and periods of my life.
Marc:I'm 50 years old.
Marc:They're stacking up phases and periods, places, people, events, disappointments, successes.
Marc:They're starting to sort of smear into a kind of memory stew.
Marc:But you can access them.
Marc:And sometimes it's overwhelming to think like, well, you know, I'm more than halfway done here.
Marc:And what have I got?
Marc:What have I done?
Marc:I'm not saying I don't got much.
Marc:But when you go over the life, you're like, wow, do you remember that?
Marc:The way that thing tasted in 1984.
Marc:Do you remember the smell of that summer night when you were covered in sweat?
Marc:and felt like a superhero.
Marc:they come over you.
Marc:And after talking to Harry Dean, after talking to him, I wonder if that's going on or if he just sort of exists on this other plane within his mind.
Marc:It's very compelling, but a bit frustrating for me.
Marc:It was interesting to sit there in this little house with the bits and pieces of his life that he chose to surround himself with, not a lot.
Marc:Cause there's that taste of old Hollywood.
Marc:There's a taste, you know, you're looking at a guy that's, that's seen a lot that's lived the life and that's lived it with some of your heroes and that's lived it, you know, as himself being the amazing actor that he is and you want stories.
Marc:But you know, when you're in your eighties and someone's like, come on, man, tell me about Nicholson.
Marc:You know, do you really want to do that?
Marc:I mean, time is time is of the essence in the way that, you know, how much you're going to how much you're going to waste telling stories as opposed to just living stories.
Marc:How many stories do you have?
Marc:Even if you have 100 stories, sometimes it's better just to keep them to yourself and think about them or just access those memories and sit with them than tell them.
Marc:You definitely feel the weight with Harry Dean Stanton.
Marc:And I...
Marc:I hope you enjoy this or understand where I'm coming from with this.
Marc:And after I talked to Harry Dean, I talked to Sophie Huber, the woman who directed the film.
Marc:Here's the interesting thing, folks, with Harry Dean Stanton is that...
Marc:About midway through the interview, this was one of those moments where I'm like, well, Maren, this was the real test to your particular style of talking with other people.
Marc:Because I did have a moment, and I'll be honest with you, between us and my insecurity was, maybe I should have prepared a few questions.
Marc:Because there's a moment when my own personal needs from a conversation are what they are.
Marc:I just like to connect.
Marc:I like to engage.
Marc:I like that on an emotional level.
Marc:I'm not talking professionally.
Marc:I need to do it.
Marc:And in my life, in the life of this show, when I haven't been able to do it, I feel like I'm being abandoned by somebody.
Marc:There's an emotional liability to it.
Marc:I start to panic a bit.
Marc:You know, why doesn't this person like me?
Marc:Why doesn't he want to talk to me?
Marc:Harry Dean's then didn't even really know who I was or what the podcast was.
Marc:He didn't give a shit.
Marc:He was trying to help this woman, Sophie, who he was romantically involved with for years before she made the documentary, which is a fascinating facet of the thing unto itself that she wants to go after this, you know, whatever she's been missing in the soul of this guy.
Marc:So.
Marc:Well, you know, have the experience for yourself.
Marc:This is me and Harry Dean Stanton at his home.
Marc:I'm watching him smoke cigarettes and trying to talk to him.
Marc:His assistant is around as a buffer.
Marc:And we did what we could.
Marc:Okay, let's go there now.
Marc:So you've been in this house for 30 years.
Guest:Yeah, over 30 years.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I think I came here in, God, I can't remember now.
Guest:1957.
Marc:Is that when you first got out here?
Guest:That's when I first got out here, I think.
Marc:And do you remember?
Guest:No, I came out here in 1949 to Pasadena.
Marc:And that's, did you come out specifically to act?
Guest:Yeah, I went to the Pasadena Playhouse.
Marc:And that was a scene or was it just a theater?
Guest:Yeah, a theater school.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And what was the first training like for you?
Guest:It was all, it was very comprehensive.
Marc:Did you do like classical stuff?
Guest:Yeah, we did everything.
Guest:Shakespeare, Chekhov, all the classics.
Marc:And where did you come from originally?
Guest:Kentucky.
Marc:Kentucky?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you remember, because I don't sense any sort of southern accent at all.
Guest:No, I had a lot of speech training.
Marc:You got rid of it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you can get it if you wanted to.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I can talk like that flat right now.
Guest:I can do any kind of accent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You have a knack for it?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Can you do Russian?
Guest:Russian accent.
Guest:Is it the accent?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I've never done a Russian accent.
Marc:How about Irish?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Irish is very easy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:is there is there like a a trick to it or is it just a knack to it it's an ear for it yeah just an ear i'm a singer too i know i've heard some of your stuff you like to to sing in spanish a lot yeah i sing spanish italian do you think there's croatian oh you do some croatian songs yeah why croatian
Guest:I just picked it up.
Guest:I was there.
Guest:Did a movie there, I think.
Guest:What was the name of that movie?
Guest:Clint Eastwood and Kelly Savalas.
Marc:Kelly's Heroes?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:And you liked Croatia, or is there something that connected with you about the music?
Guest:No, I just happened to pick up one of the songs.
Guest:What was the song?
Guest:What is that Croatian song?
Guest:What does it mean?
Guest:It's a national song.
Marc:Oh, sort of like an anthem?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I think the Spanish songs, I had a friend who lived in Spain for a couple years, and he said that nobody really can speak about love like Spanish songs.
Guest:No, Mexican, especially Mexican mariachi songs.
Marc:They're painful in how much the heart is in them, huh?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:A lot of feeling.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:In Kentucky, how did you grow up?
Marc:What was the family situation?
Marc:What did your parents do?
Guest:My father was a farmer and a barber.
Guest:My mother was a hairdresser.
Marc:Did he work out of the house as a barber?
Guest:No, no, no.
Marc:Oh, he went to the shop.
Marc:The shop with the blue liquid and the combs and the chair.
Guest:And they do the shaving.
Guest:The red pole.
Guest:Yeah, the whole thing.
Guest:Barber pole, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, there are people trying to do that type of haircutting now.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Nostalgic haircutting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What kind of farming did he do?
Guest:Tobacco, we grew tobacco.
Marc:You had the family fun?
Guest:As a matter of fact, I'll have a cigarette.
Marc:I appreciate your commitment to the cigarettes.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Because I'm sucking on nicotine lozenges, and they're not nearly as satisfying as cigarettes.
Guest:I know.
Marc:Have you ever tried to stop?
Marc:no I don't want to stop fuck it not no reason to stop now did like tobacco farming he had his own he had his own fields and everything
Guest:We had 10 acres, I think.
Marc:And did you guys dry the tobacco and everything?
Marc:Did you cure it and hang it?
Guest:Oh, yeah, in the barn.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:It would dry out.
Marc:Did you smoke fresh tobacco back then?
Guest:No, my old man hated smoking.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Hated it.
Guest:He was a barber.
Guest:People would smoke in his chair, and he would take a little syringe and dab it on the end of their cigarette.
Guest:When they weren't looking, they kept going out.
Guest:They finally gave up.
Marc:And what made you leave Kentucky, ultimately?
Marc:Just a drive to act?
Guest:I wanted to be an actor.
Guest:I came to Pasadena in 1949.
Guest:I was in World War II.
Marc:What'd you do in the war?
Guest:I was on an LST on the Navy.
Guest:Landing ship tanks.
Marc:Did you see action?
Guest:Yeah, Okinawa, Lingayan Gulf, and the Philippine Islands.
Marc:And what was your role on the boat?
Guest:I was a ship's cook, third class.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, my uncle got me into it.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah, he was a cook in the Navy, 20-year man.
Marc:And to cook in the Navy, what'd you have to know?
Guest:Not a lot.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The meat goes there.
Guest:It was good duty.
Guest:You were on a day and off a day.
Guest:It was the best duty in the Navy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's why you got me into it.
Marc:It was a little easier than some of the other people up front, I guess.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But when you guys were at Okinawa, did you have to get off and shoot?
Yeah.
Guest:No, we supplied ammunition for the British gunboats, 14-inch shells, 20-millimeter anti-aircraft shells, machine gun shells, everything.
Marc:How are you with boats now?
Guest:Boats?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't like the ocean.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:That's for fish.
Marc:There's something really scary about the ocean.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:I can't even swim in pools where I can't see the bottom.
Marc:It gives me the creeps.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So when you came out here to do the Pasadena Playhouse, how soon before you started actually doing acting roles in television?
Guest:I was there four years at the Playhouse.
Guest:What's 50, 52 or three?
Guest:I went back to Kentucky, did a play there at the college.
Guest:I was quit after three years in college.
Guest:So I went back there and did a couple of plays.
Guest:I got on a road tour, American Male Chorus.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:It had one pedophile in it.
Guest:Did it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Was that a live show tour where you just do singing, or how did it work?
Guest:It was the choral group.
Guest:We started out with about 20 people and ended up with eight, I think.
Guest:Everybody started quitting.
Marc:Deserting.
Marc:Weren't selling tickets?
Marc:What happened?
Guest:We'd go into towns and sing on the street and have a concert at the end of the week.
Marc:So you'd go out to sing on the corner to promote the show and see how many people would come from the town?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you finish college?
Guest:No, I only went three years.
Marc:Oh, yeah, what were you studying?
Guest:I was studying, and I say, what did I study?
Guest:God, what the hell did I study?
Guest:I took music, I think, music, and then...
Guest:God, I can't remember.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was in acting, though?
Guest:No, I took a lot of speech lessons, and then I did a play.
Marc:Which play, do you remember?
Guest:Big Million, yeah.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:Played a Cockney, Alfred Doolittle.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Cockney accent.
Marc:Did your family come see you?
Guest:Oh, yeah, I guess so.
Marc:And when you got out here, how long before you started getting roles?
Guest:Well, I was here four years at the Playhouse, and I went back east for three years.
Guest:I was on that road tour, that American Mail Chorus.
Guest:And then it came, when I got back out to California, I quit, too.
Guest:I started in 1957, I think.
Marc:Doing television?
Guest:Yeah, I did a documentary, an Air Force documentary.
Guest:Carried a stretcher.
Marc:And then what was the first bigger television roles?
Guest:I did a lot of gun smokes.
Guest:I did a movie.
Guest:I did one with Alan Ladd.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He was great, right?
Guest:Yeah, a little guy.
Marc:Was he?
Guest:Stood on a box when he had scenes with women.
Guest:When he first saw that, did it shatter any illusions?
Guest:I didn't care one way or another.
Marc:no it must have been kind of funny yeah there's a lot of movie big movie stars that seem to be very small yeah it's just something about how they look on screen i guess yeah james cagney was small mickey rooney he was very tiny yeah so when was the first uh when did you start really locking in when you realized it was all going pretty good
Guest:Well, once I started, I never stopped.
Marc:Do you even know how many movies you've done?
Guest:Over 200, maybe 250.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I lost count.
Marc:Early on when you were doing the movies, was there a movie where you were like, oh my God, man, this is really happening?
Marc:Like the Cool Hand Luke, did that have an effect?
Guest:Well, I did a lot of television.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When you worked with Newman, was that a big deal?
Guest:Yeah, well, it was just nice working with him, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And Trevor Martin.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He was funny.
Guest:He was the warden.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were you guys buddies?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He's easy to get along with.
Marc:He seems like a great guy.
Marc:He was a Peckinpah guy, right?
Marc:He's a lot of those Peckinpah.
Guest:It was one of my favorite scenes was when Ford came in.
Guest:He said, Brother Martin said to Newman, said, and what are you in for?
Guest:He said, cutting heads off parking meters.
Guest:I said, what was that?
Guest:We ain't never had one of them before.
Guest:I said, why'd you do that?
Guest:He said, just killing time.
Guest:He said, well, you got some time to kill now.
Guest:If you get your mind right, you'll get along all right with me.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I guess maybe I romanticized that era of films in the late 60s and the 70s.
Marc:That might have even been a little earlier.
Marc:But was there a community of cats that used to hang around back then?
Marc:I mean, actors?
Guest:A what?
Marc:Like a community of you guys?
Marc:Because I could see you and Struther Martin hanging out.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:No, we never hung out much.
Marc:No?
Marc:No.
Marc:How about Dillinger?
Marc:How about Warren Oates?
Marc:Were you guys friends?
Guest:Oh, yeah, we were big friends.
Guest:He was from Kentucky, too.
Guest:We were up for the same roles a lot of times.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And when you were in Dillinger, is that where you met him?
Yeah.
Guest:Let's see, I might have known him before that.
Guest:He played Dillinger, didn't he?
Marc:Yeah, he was the lead, yeah.
Marc:What determines whether or not you'll take a role or not?
Guest:The director, the actors, the script, mainly the script, and who's doing it, who's directing it.
Marc:And when you worked with, like Dillinger, John Milius directed that.
Marc:Do you have recollection of him?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He was one of my biggest fans.
Marc:He's a smart guy, huh?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:He seems like a fairly magnanimous guy.
Marc:What makes a guy a good director?
Guest:Leave the actors alone.
Marc:Completely?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For the most part.
Guest:Or if they do give you direction, they know what they're saying.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Like they're direct?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because obviously they've hired you for a reason, so they have to respect what you can do.
Guest:Yeah, and good directors hire actors that can do it on their own.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because you had a pretty big relationship with David Lynch.
Marc:I saw the film and you talked to him.
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:What is it that makes you guys simpatico or connect?
Guest:He's just a very creative director.
Guest:He's just a good director.
Guest:That's all.
Guest:A good writer, a good director.
Marc:When you've read his scripts before you've done them, did they always make sense in your head?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:Because that scene that you have in... What's the name of that movie?
Marc:No, I can't remember.
Marc:The Straight Story.
Guest:Stray Star, oh yeah, I had the last scene.
Marc:Right, it was like one scene.
Guest:Yeah, it was one of my favorite movies.
Marc:It's the most powerful scene.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:As an actor, what do you draw from when you sit there?
Marc:I mean, how do you clear your mind?
Guest:Well, he called me up and told me, he said, I want you to be in my movie.
Guest:You got the last scene in the movie, and I want you to cry.
Marc:And that's it.
Guest:So he had me read this.
Guest:What was that?
Guest:It's on the wall in my bedroom.
Guest:What's the name of that?
Guest:Chief Seattle.
Guest:It was Franklin Pierce, I think, was the president.
Guest:He was the first ones to be sent on a reservation.
Guest:And Chief Seattle wrote him a letter, a gorgeous letter, a powerful letter.
Guest:It made me cry.
Guest:So he had me read that before I did the scene.
Marc:What was it about?
Marc:Do you have it?
Marc:Oh, it's pinned up over there, huh?
Guest:It's about, read some of it, Logan.
Guest:I can't read it.
Wow.
Guest:So this is 1854, and he's in front of President Franklin Pierce.
Guest:How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land?
Guest:The idea is strange to us.
Guest:If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?
Guest:Every part of the earth is sacred to my people, every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and hummingbird insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people.
Guest:The sap which courses through the trees carries the memories of the red man.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:So he just laid that on you.
Marc:And it had not necessarily any bearing on the story itself, but on a view of the world.
Guest:It affected me, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And do you think he knew that intuitively about you?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you feel a profound connection to the world like that, to wildlife and everything else?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Yeah.
Marc:what was the uh when you started working with uh vim vendors on paris texas that was a pretty huge opportunity for you yeah that was my favorite film yeah like i have to i want to re-watch that movie i haven't watched it in a while how did you how did you uh when you that character was laid out to you when you read that script what was your first thought
Guest:Well, Sam Shepard got me in it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Are you guys friends?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We're good friends.
Marc:He seems like a solid man.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He's a great man.
Marc:Great writer.
Guest:Great writer.
Guest:That's what made the film, his writing.
Marc:And what were the conversations you had with him about it?
Guest:Well, we were in New Mexico, I think, or Albuquerque, and we were drinking one night, and I said, I wish I could get a film with some sensitivity to it and intelligence and on and on.
Guest:And I wasn't even thinking about, I wasn't trying to get a job from him.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Anyway, he came back, and a week later he called me and said, I want you to be in this film.
Guest:Vim Benders fought.
Guest:I was too old for it.
Guest:I think I was 57 years old then.
Marc:And Sam fought for you?
Guest:Yeah, well, Vim Benders came here twice and talked to me about it.
Guest:And after the second time, he knew it was all right.
Marc:Yeah, that movie is almost a Western movie.
Guest:Oh yeah, it's kind of a Western.
Marc:And that character, did you have, I don't know how you work as an actor, but did you have any sense outside of an emotional sense of where that guy came from?
Marc:Did you have a story in your mind?
Guest:No, it was all written.
Marc:But like when he arrived out of the desert, you know, when he sort of showed up, did you have an idea in your head of where he might have been?
Guest:Where who?
Marc:That character, because he just sort of appears.
Guest:Yeah, we had this, what do they call it?
Guest:When you don't talk, what's that medical condition, trauma, something?
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:There was a girl in the film, Allison Anders, and she was a student at UCLA.
Guest:And she told me she had had that condition.
Guest:And I asked her why she didn't talk.
Guest:And she said, I thought if I said anything, I would lose it.
Guest:Freak out.
Marc:So that's what you went into it with?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because it's one of those stories, like a lot of Sam Shepard's plays, they have this father figure who has some dark past.
Guest:But I guess as the story unfolds in that film... Yeah, his father was a big influence on him.
Guest:His father was a drunk.
Marc:Yeah, and I think that character was based on him a bit, right?
Guest:Yeah, he's pretty crazy, his old man.
Marc:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Was yours?
Guest:Huh?
Marc:Was your father crazy?
Guest:No, he was sober and didn't smoke or drink.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And that's your mom?
Marc:That's a picture of your mom there?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That's a great picture.
Yeah.
Marc:I guess a lot of people first saw you in Repo Man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And Aliens.
Guest:Yeah, Repo Man.
Guest:It's my other favorite film.
Marc:Alex Cox.
Guest:Yeah, Alex Cox.
Marc:I wonder what he's been up to.
Marc:I haven't seen anything.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:He's kind of a nut, too.
Guest:Is he?
Guest:He's very talented.
Marc:And that movie, it was a comedy, basically.
Guest:Satire.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So you don't have any problem playing comedy?
Marc:Is there a difference?
Guest:No, the satire is a beautiful satire.
Guest:It satirized everything, religion, violence, everything.
Guest:What kind of director was he?
Marc:What made him crazy?
Guest:He's just egomaniacal in a way.
Guest:But he's still super talented.
Marc:And with Aliens, that was a huge movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That was Ridley Scott.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Did you enjoy working with him?
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Was that the first time you were on a spaceship?
Guest:On a what?
Marc:On a spaceship?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, when he first interviewed me, I said, I don't like horror films or science fiction films.
Guest:He said, well, actually, I don't either, but I think I can make something of this one.
Guest:And he showed me this big brochure with all these big colored layouts.
Guest:I said, wow.
Guest:I said, have you guys got enough money to do this film?
Guest:That's one reason he hired me, because I was worried about the money.
Guest:I thought, this guy's not going to waste any film.
Guest:No.
Marc:When you did The Pledge with Sean Penn and Jack Nicholson, well, actually, was the first movie you did with Jack Nicholson, The Missouri Breaks?
Oh.
Marc:Ride the whirlwind.
Marc:And you guys were pretty tight, right?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We used to live together years ago before he made it.
Marc:Was that a good time?
Guest:Yeah, it was rough at times.
Guest:Why?
Guest:It was just the usual roommate arguments.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It would seem kind of menacing to fight with Jack Nicholson, I would think, even over milk or something like that.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Were you living with him when he made his first big movie?
Marc:Yeah, he did Easy Rider, I think.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:That's the one that got him started, yeah.
Marc:And that's when you were living with him?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did you know Dennis Hopper?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:We were up for the same roles a lot of times, too.
Marc:You and Dennis?
Guest:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:that whole scene in the in the 70s in the late 60s it seemed like uh i think people had a better time do you no it's all the same it is yeah is that what you learn as time goes on yeah and are you still friends with jack oh yeah we've been close friends for forever we're still close
Marc:What do you think of Hollywood in general?
Marc:Or just being out here?
Marc:Because you seem to... I don't know.
Guest:I've always avoided the mainstream, actually.
Guest:The Academy Awards and all that.
Guest:I've never been to the Academy Awards.
Marc:No?
Marc:Because?
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:Seems like bullshit?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The middle of the mainstream lies mediocrity.
Marc:I agree with that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And for a guy like you that has been in as many movies as you've been in and is sort of a notorious person in terms of the quality of work you do and also just you're sort of a mysterious person to a lot of people.
Marc:Do you have any regrets about how things went?
Marc:No.
Marc:everything just goes down nobody's in charge right it all just happens yeah did you were there roles that you wanted to play that weren't able to play because you're known as one of the greatest character actors that ever lived was there a part and a point in time where you're like why am i not a leading man or any of that kind of stuff i played a lead in paris texas that's right that yeah and i was offered a series too by john carpenter
Marc:Oh, right, the guy.
Marc:You did Escape to New York?
Guest:I could have been much more famous and much richer than I am.
Guest:I was offered a series of playing a private investigator of my own series, and I didn't take it.
Marc:Why?
Guest:I didn't want too much work.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And TV's a little different.
Guest:Yeah, it's a 24-hour-a-day job, a series.
Marc:Yeah, and it doesn't seem to be... 24-7.
Marc:Yeah, it is a lot of work.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you enjoy... What do you do when you do a movie and you're on set for a long time, like with Paris, Texas?
Marc:I mean, how do you occupy your brain when you're hanging around?
Marc:Do you read?
Marc:Do you think?
Guest:It's always different.
Guest:Yeah?
Marc:No pattern.
Marc:No pattern?
Marc:No.
Marc:i thought it was interesting in the documentary that they kind of followed you around when you're out drinking yeah yeah yeah yeah because i think it's a side that people don't you know necessarily see about like about hollywood in general and that especially you know dan tana specifically has such a a sort of mythic reputation yeah it's an institution yeah how long you been going there
Guest:Since it opened, I think, in 1964, I think.
Marc:And it was sort of like a watering hole for a whole generation of actors, right?
Marc:There was like a crew, right?
Guest:Yeah, I'll call it the Star Wars bar.
Marc:Who were some of the guys?
Marc:Was it like Dabney Coleman?
Guest:Abney Coleman, yeah, he was a big, one of the main characters there.
Guest:James Caan, Warren Oates, every actor in the business has been there.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I ate there once.
Marc:I remember going there with my second wife, and all I remember about it was the food was good, but Ron Jeremy was in the booth next to me.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:The porn star.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When you sit up here now, after having the career you had, did you grow up with any religion?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I'm Southern Baptist.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Snakes?
Guest:Huh?
Guest:Snake handlers?
Guest:No, no.
Guest:None of that?
Guest:Didn't get that far into it.
Guest:The holy rulers, I didn't get into that.
Guest:Strictly Baptist.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Baptized.
Yeah.
Marc:Was there a fear of God and hell put into you early on?
Guest:It's all based on fear, all religions.
Guest:Fear of God, a father figure.
Marc:It's bullshit.
Marc:Do you remember when you decided that was bullshit?
Guest:Yeah, sort of.
Guest:They had these preachers would come through, evangelists.
Guest:Brother Gibson was one of them.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:We'd go down and shake hands with the evangelist after the sermon, you know.
Guest:He shook hands with me.
Guest:Give me your hand.
Guest:He moved me on like that.
Guest:I thought something's wrong with this picture.
Marc:Just kept you moving?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Do you have any spirituality now?
Guest:Well, I don't know.
Guest:I don't have any beliefs.
Guest:I believe in nothing.
Guest:There's no beliefs.
Marc:But do you have happiness?
Guest:Happiness is an inscription on the Buddhist temples.
Guest:How joyous I am now that I've learned there's no such thing as happiness.
Marc:So do you adhere to sort of that Buddhist idea then?
Guest:Oh, Buddhism, Taoism, and the...
Guest:Jewish Kabbalah, the real Kabbalah.
Guest:The Jews don't get it, the Christians either, really.
Guest:The real Kabbalah is the same as Taoism and Buddhism.
Marc:And what are the principles there?
Guest:The word Tao in Chinese means the nameless.
Guest:There's no definition for it, but it's there.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And in the Kabbalah, because I don't have a God either, but I was brought up Jewish, but the Kabbalah seems like a mystical thing that's beyond my comprehension.
Guest:Well, it's the same as Buddhism and Taoism.
Guest:There's no answer.
Guest:No, there's no individual.
Guest:There's no individual soul.
Guest:There's no individual...
Guest:Person, no individual identity.
Guest:Right.
Guest:It's all... One?
Guest:Yeah, it's all one.
Guest:And it's all, right.
Guest:One big phantasmagoria.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:But fun is okay.
Marc:Huh?
Marc:It's good to have fun.
Marc:Sure.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, man, I'm going to have another lozenge here.
Marc:Where do you want to go now?
Marc:I'm the interviewer.
Marc:Make it happen.
Marc:Did you know Peckinpah?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:He's another nut.
Guest:What movies did you do with him?
Marc:Did you do any?
Guest:Yeah, I did Pat Gary and Billy the Kid.
Marc:Oh, that was good.
Guest:Yeah, that's where I met Dylan.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Bob Dylan.
Marc:He's a little nutty, too.
Guest:Yeah, he's great, though.
Marc:What was it like working with Peckinpah?
Marc:What kind of person was he?
Guest:He's nutty.
Marc:He's a wild man, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Unpredictable, violent.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you got a story?
Guest:We opened the door and he's got a pistol in his hand.
Guest:He had shot the television out and shot a picture off the wall holding a gun in front of us.
Guest:And I backed out of the room and closed it.
Guest:You didn't want to be involved in that.
Guest:No.
Guest:And that was the end of it?
Guest:You just walked away?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Christopherson took the gun away from him, I think.
Marc:That was crazy times.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:What was the scene with Bob Dylan?
Guest:We were jogging, we were running, jogging, and a scene we were running across, and we were in the background of a shot.
Guest:We came back, and Peckinpah was screaming, you fuckers, you ruined a shot, you're walking through the shot.
Guest:And I said, well, I was after Dylan trying to get him to stop, which was bullshit.
Marc:You just threw him under the bus.
Marc:When you hang out with Dylan, what the hell is that conversation like?
Marc:I mean, he's a pretty deep dude.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:He's awesome.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, he had...
Guest:He wanted me to, I was in one, he did a movie, I think I was in, that he directed, had a lot of people at it, Joan Baez.
Marc:Oh, it's kind of a crazy movie, right?
Guest:Yeah, I can't remember the name of it.
Guest:Anyway, he did, I was in that.
Guest:And we came back to L.A.
Guest:and he asked me to come down to the recording studio in Santa Monica.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was singing with the band then.
Guest:And he wanted me to record and come down.
Guest:And I was two hours late.
Guest:I thought, well, he's got the band down there and everything.
Guest:He'd been down there by himself waiting for me.
Guest:Just me and him.
Guest:So we got together and sang, made a tape.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Marc:Did you have it?
Marc:Do you have it still?
Guest:I don't think.
Guest:He asked me that I want a copy, and I said no.
Guest:Oh.
Guest:Shooting myself in the foot.
Marc:What song did you sing?
Guest:Let's see, what did we sing?
Guest:We sang a Mexican song, I think.
Marc:When did this passion for Mexican music take over?
Guest:When I was a kid, I saw these mariachis singing in westerns, and that's got me hooked on the sound.
Marc:The mariachi sound is with the, sometimes there's horns, right?
Guest:Oh, they're the greatest musicians of all.
Marc:And they got the accordion, too, correct?
Guest:Yeah, the accordion, the tuba, the bass, especially the accordions and the tuba.
Marc:I learned that all that stuff came through Germany, up through Mexico.
Marc:Fascinating, right?
Marc:Polkas, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, the conjunto music.
Guest:Polka music, yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Yeah.
Marc:I have to assume it seems to me like in the 70s there was a lot of craziness.
Marc:Who would I talk to?
Marc:Sally Kellerman.
Marc:Maybe it's not craziness.
Marc:Maybe I just idealized it.
Marc:Maybe they feel like people were closer to the source and there was more interesting things going on.
Guest:No, it's the same as it always was.
Marc:yeah just different players different drugs different haircuts same one big movie yeah everybody wants to just get in the movies they're in a movie it's all a movie is it including our present conversation oh god i i hope it's a good movie so you never you never got married never had kids
Guest:No, I might have had two or three out of marriage, but that's a whole other story.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You don't know for sure?
Guest:No, I've never had DNA tests, but...
Guest:They show up occasionally.
Guest:Yeah, one of them I'm pretty sure of, yeah.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:That's a contentious thing?
Guest:Contentious?
Guest:Yeah, I mean, you guys, you don't know, but you don't talk.
Guest:You just don't.
Guest:Oh, yeah, we get along.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Me and one of them.
Guest:A couple more, I never see them.
Guest:I haven't seen them in years.
Guest:Yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They're just out there.
Guest:They were just from brief affairs.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That must be sort of a...
Guest:Yeah, it's traumatic.
Guest:It's not fun.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you didn't know about him for years, that kind of thing?
Guest:No, I knew about him pretty soon.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So would you like to do more movies?
Marc:You just want to keep working?
Guest:It doesn't matter.
Marc:It doesn't matter?
Marc:No.
Marc:Do you feel like you're done?
Guest:Yeah, I'm tired.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:When you sit up here, do you feel okay?
Guest:I'm healthy, yeah.
Marc:That's pretty good.
Marc:I have a tremendous amount of respect for the genetic disposition that enables you to continue to enjoy yourself the way you do.
Guest:Yeah, it's just all that happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did your father live a long time?
Guest:He was 80-something, I think.
Marc:Yeah, so he did all right.
Guest:Yeah, I can't remember how old he was when he died.
Marc:Yeah?
Marc:You weren't very close to him by that point?
Guest:No, we were never really close.
Marc:Was there ever a sense that he was proud of you or liked what you were doing or anything?
Guest:I'm sure he was, yeah.
Marc:How about your mom?
Marc:Did she see any of your movies or anything?
Guest:I can't remember.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what was your relationship like with your mom?
Guest:We weren't close in a way.
Guest:She favored my brother, I think.
Guest:Older, younger brother?
Guest:Yeah, I think she was dying, I think.
Guest:I sent her a heart, a little ceramic heart, and the nurse broke it and sent it back to me.
Guest:I glued it back together and sent it back to her.
Guest:So we were close at the very end.
Guest:It's a personal story.
I don't really want to get into it.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Well, I think you've done great work, and I have a lot of respect for you, and it was a pleasure to talk to you.
Guest:Well, thank you.
Guest:Yeah, and I'm glad you're still around.
Marc:So that was that interview with me and Harry Dean.
Marc:Again, it was beautiful.
Marc:I smelled like smoke when I left, and I wandered down the driveway with my bag of mics and recorders and my booms with his assistant saying, God, I just couldn't get through.
Marc:And the assistant said, no, man, you did all right.
Marc:You did all right.
Marc:But why is he?
Marc:You did fine.
Marc:That's what you get.
Marc:And I'm like, all right, but could you just see if he likes me?
Marc:So now I invited Sophie Huber over to the house to talk about her film, partly fiction, but primarily because I knew I had that Harry Dean Stanton interview and I'm like, I can't just put that up.
Marc:I need to figure out where I went wrong or what happened.
Marc:So I brought Sophie in to ask her what she was looking for because I just was looking for a little connection, a little conversation, a little sort of reflection.
Marc:So this is myself, me, here in the garage talking to Sophie who directed the film Partly Fiction, which I highly recommend, about her search for Harry Dean Stanton with Harry Dean Stanton.
Marc:So your last name is pronounced Huber?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Sophie Huber?
Guest:That's right.
Marc:And you directed the film on Harry Dean Stanton.
Marc:Harry Dean Stanton, what's the rest of it?
Guest:Partly fiction.
Marc:Partly fiction.
Marc:I saw it.
Guest:I'm glad you did.
Marc:Yeah, no, I like it.
Marc:I love the film.
Marc:I love Harry Dean Stanton, but he's one of those guys...
Marc:that we all know we all wonder about and and after watch I'll tell you exactly what my experience was I thought the film was beautiful you know it was thorough enough but it wasn't really about being a thorough sort of assessment of his career was more of a poetic cinematic portrait of a guy that's a pretty mysterious guy would you say that's a good assessment
Guest:Yeah, because there's a reason why the film is like this.
Guest:First of all, it took a very long time to persuade him to agree to do it.
Guest:He really didn't want to do a documentary.
Guest:He believes in living in the moment, so the past doesn't really interest him much, which makes a linear biography somewhat strange.
Guest:So I wanted to create something that is more in his head, you know, that you feel like you spend time with him rather than just telling, you know, his story from A to Z. Well, yeah, because you could tell that story on your own.
Marc:I mean, you could line up, you know, you could sit there with the research and film clips and even narrate your own history of Harry Dean Stanton.
Marc:But that wouldn't serve the same purpose.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, I think I wanted to create the sort of atmosphere that I experience when I'm with him, which to me is sort of relaxing.
Marc:Well, that's interesting because I saw your film and then I went and interviewed Harry.
Marc:And after seeing the film, having interviewed 450 people one-on-one,
Marc:After seeing the film, I was like, this is not going to be easy.
Marc:And I don't know if I'm going to be able to engage him in a way that would be conversational.
Marc:And even if I wait for him to answer, it might not really flesh out as an interview.
Marc:I was nervous and I found that I had a difficult time.
Guest:I guess it's difficult if you film it, at least the pauses are expressive.
Marc:I have a great deal of respect for him.
Marc:Like I said, most people who enjoy movies have some sort of relationship with that guy or wonder about that guy.
Marc:When did your fascination or history with Harry Dean Stanton begin?
Guest:Well, initially, probably when I saw Paris, Texas, you know, back in Switzerland, in the mid-80s, I suppose.
Guest:Do you live in Switzerland?
Guest:No, I live here, really.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And it was just this, you know, vision of America that was really fascinating and this person sort of wandering in the desert, which is something to us that's very exotic because, you know, we don't have deserts and we don't have characters like this.
Guest:And then I met him through a friend at Dantana's, you know, the bar he hangs out every night.
Marc:So you went to Dantana's with a friend in the 80s.
Guest:Well, in the 90s.
Marc:In the 90s.
Guest:Yeah, so 10 years later, I met him.
Guest:And I just felt I knew him, you know, also because he reminded me of a really close friend of mine.
Guest:And we just developed the friendship.
Guest:So, you know, we've known each other for 20 years now.
Marc:Now, did you have a relationship with him?
Marc:Um... Were you dating the man?
Guest:Uh, well, as much as you can date Harry Dean.
Marc:Okay, so you were... For five minutes.
Marc:You were romantically involved with him for a time.
Guest:For a very short period.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:A very long time ago.
Marc:Uh-huh, right.
Marc:So, and then this movie, when did you start to get obsessed?
Marc:So, you had a romantic relationship with him, which is, you know, fine, obviously, but you... Well, I'm glad you approve.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:No, no, I mean, I think, you know, you're not alone.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm definitely not.
Marc:But the fascination, I don't know what your friendship was over the period after that.
Marc:I mean, it's because you've known him for 20 years or more.
Marc:And what I felt in watching the film, outside of having a respect for the guy, that there is this feeling that you want something.
Marc:You're looking for something.
Marc:I mean, I don't know exactly what your relationship is, but I felt during the film that I wanted to know more about this guy.
Marc:And what ultimately happens when you watch the film is you get a sense of his amazing being, but there's still a tremendous amount of mystery to that guy.
Guest:Yeah, and I think that's what interests me.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And there's just something that... Well, maybe I should say also...
Guest:Before I started doing the documentary, I started recording songs with him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I thought that was just, you know, like, incredibly moving the way he sang.
Marc:Yeah, it is.
Marc:It's amazing.
Marc:The song in Paris, Texas, and some of the songs I've heard him do elsewhere, it seems to be really where you can get a sense of where his heart is.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's where I felt where he was most truthful, you know, where he really opens up in a way emotionally that he doesn't when he just talks.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And so that's how it all started.
Guest:And he didn't want to do that either first.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then also what happened, you know, in his face, he's so expressive when he sings these songs.
Guest:And to me, they're just heartbreaking, really.
Marc:So when you start looking at him through a lens and you start letting him sort of live and breathe there, because there's a part of him that lives there on camera, there's something about that guy that makes him so recognizable and so consistently visible in American cinema.
Marc:And people of my generation, I'm probably a little older than you, you remember him from Alien, you remember him from Repo Man, you remember him from Paris, Texas, and then as you get further into film, it's like, oh my God, there he is in that, and there he is in that, that there's some part of him that lives on film.
Marc:And it happens naturally, I think.
Marc:But do you find that after you shot the film and after you spent this amount of time with him personally, that do you feel that your film is, did you get everything you wanted out of it?
Guest:I did get the feeling that I wanted, you know, the sort of atmosphere.
Guest:And I think, and that's what his friends say too, which makes me happy that the film captures his essence somehow without him.
Guest:Of course, you know, I wanted him to talk a little more and so on, but that's why I had to find all these ways to fill the holes with clips and with songs.
Guest:And then at the end, I mean, does it really matter if somebody exactly tells you what happened in their childhood?
Guest:Or is it as interesting if you just know something went wrong?
Guest:Well, does it?
Guest:I mean, do you feel... In a way, I feel, no, you don't really need to know.
Guest:Because a lot of the times if people actually say what exactly happened, it doesn't necessarily make you feel more connected to them.
Guest:I agree.
Guest:And he knows also.
Guest:I think he plays a little bit with it because he knows that the mystery is sort of what makes him interesting.
Marc:So he's aware of that.
Guest:I'm pretty sure he is.
Marc:Yeah, because I felt that in talking to him that the idea, like you said when you came in here, that he lives in the present and there's sort of some Buddhism involved and it is what it is business.
Marc:I couldn't quite tell, and I guess I'm just going to talk to you about my experience with my conversation with him and your relationship with him in the film, because I think the film is beautiful.
Marc:And I think that what was amazing about it was that even when he was in relationship with David Lynch or Chris Christopherson, I mean, these guys are guys that have long-term...
Marc:sort of male bonds with this guy you still don't get the feeling that he opens up and starts you know telling stories and and being funny but i know there's got to be a couple of people in his life he strikes me as the kind of guy that's got about two or three guys that he really trusts and they're going to get the full treatment they're going to see you know they're going to accept him for exactly who he is and if he needs to talk he'll talk to them yeah
Marc:Do you feel that's true?
Marc:Yeah, that's true.
Marc:But my experience with him with that Buddhist idea that, you know, living in the present, it is what it is, is that I couldn't help but feel like, because there was one moment when I was talking to him about, you know, he brought up the same story that's in the film, the mother giving her the present, the box.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Well, he told that story again, but then somewhere in the middle of it, he says, like, you know, but I don't want to, that's all I'm going to talk about it.
Marc:And that was a difficult thing.
Marc:I'm not going to, you know, like there was something.
Marc:So that implied to me that that even though he he lives in the president, he has this philosophical disposition about who he is in the world, that there is a heartbreak and that there is a struggle going on in there.
Marc:That would be I agree with you, but it would be interesting to hear what that is, don't you think?
Guest:Yeah, well, I know parts of it, but of course, you know, I would only reveal whatever he reveals.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:But in a way, yeah, I mean, you know, something went wrong and that sort of pain, you know, probably made him move through all these films.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And the music.
Marc:And the need to sort of get out of himself or become other people.
Marc:Right?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But it's also, you know, who many people do you actually talk to where you share your most personal issues?
Marc:Well, I do a lot.
Marc:But, I mean, I'm not normal.
Okay.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, that's sort of what I do.
Marc:And I find that when you do talk about it.
Marc:But I was not in this position with Harry Dean.
Marc:And I apologize if I'm just bringing in you into this conversation to somehow understand what exactly happened with me in my experience with him.
Marc:But I've interviewed a lot of people.
Marc:And a lot of people have been pretty candid with me.
Marc:I guess what I'm getting at is that he's one of those guys you project a lot onto.
Marc:You want meaning out of that guy.
Marc:You know, I mean, and when you even in the movie, you're like, wow, what's going on?
Marc:You know, because he's such a brilliant actor and he's always been so mysterious.
Marc:And, you know, I wanted stories from the old days, but he kept saying that they were no different than today.
Marc:I'm like, really?
Guest:Yeah, I know.
Guest:I know it's excruciating trying to interview him.
Guest:How many hours did you spend?
Guest:Well, actually, not that many.
Guest:We were there at his house maybe eight afternoons and two hours, you know.
Guest:So that was fine.
Guest:It wasn't a huge amount of 20 hours of silence.
Marc:And also you forget how old he is.
Marc:You forget how old he is.
Guest:I mean, he's old.
Guest:He's 87.
Marc:Yeah, he's not, you know what I mean?
Marc:Like, so there's part of you because there is a timeless element to him because of all the movies and, you know, what we've seen of him.
Marc:You don't really associate with him with an age, really.
Marc:And even when you're sitting there, it's still like he's very purely Harry Dean Stanton.
Marc:But then there's part of you things like, oh, he's 87.
Marc:I mean, you know, that's got to have some effect.
Marc:And how old was he when you met him?
Marc:Was it 20 years ago?
Marc:yes so he's like in his mid to late 60s yeah yeah so he was still sort of on fire huh yeah why did you come to hollywood um well for five minutes i wanted to be an actress only five minutes yeah and that quickly got beaten down yeah that did it what broke you what made you realize like this ain't gonna happen
Marc:it was just too confusing to me oh yeah you know to to be somebody else oh really yeah because you know there's enough struggle in being you i guess yeah i know the feeling either i'm going to empty this out or i'm going to finish this you know doing other people yeah yeah yeah yeah is this the first documentary you did yeah yeah and what did you did harry watching it
Guest:Yeah, he, you know, it premiered last year at the Venice Film Festival.
Marc:And he was there?
Guest:No, no.
Marc:Couldn't get him out.
Marc:Couldn't get him on the plane.
Guest:No.
Guest:And then I gave him a DVD then.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And he never watched the film.
Guest:He's had it for six months and he never watched it.
Guest:And then finally he came to the screening at the LA Film Fest.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he liked it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Except he said at the end, I look so fucking old.
Marc:He said...
Marc:Yeah, man.
Guest:But he... No, I could tell he liked it and he loved the attention he's getting.
Guest:He wouldn't admit that, but he was moved by... Yeah, I mean, he's making... Standing ovation.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Marc:Oh, that's sweet.
Marc:Do you find that there's a weird detachment from him and his work?
Marc:I mean, because when I was talking to him, I mean, there was a moment where...
Marc:I don't know why I'm just sitting here psychoanalyzing him with you, because I guess I want answers, because I think you might have him.
Marc:But there was a moment where I brought up, and I think you brought up as well in the film, the idea that he was never really a leading man.
Marc:And he was very quick to say, like, oh, Paris, Texas?
Marc:Like, there's part of me that thinks that this sort of like here and now business is a way for him to at least accommodate or, you know,
Guest:kind of comfort himself that it may not have really panned out the way he anticipated well I think you're you're right yeah I mean he I don't think he would analyze it himself but I think I think that's probably pretty much the case also that he he did more music after it didn't pan out that because he did think he would be a leading man right to Paris Texas right and that didn't happen
Guest:And I think it really, it did hurt his ego.
Guest:So he tried to find ways to detach from that ego.
Marc:Right.
Marc:And sing and engage in a different way.
Marc:But it's interesting to me because he's one of the most respected character actors that's ever happened.
Marc:But it's not, you know, it's still, you still got an ego.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, and that's the funny thing, you know, because this whole Buddhist thing, he's not entirely believable in it.
Guest:You know, parts, yes, but then, yeah, he clearly does have an ego.
Guest:And anger.
Guest:And he has a funny way to interpret the whole Buddhist philosophy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Sort of in a way where he can just say, well, I don't care about anything, I'm not responsible for everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:and i mean that's not probably how it was really meant to right he does yeah his he does fuck it buddhism yeah you know there's a fine line between the here and now and fuck it yeah i i i definitely got that i definitely got that you know we talked a little bit about uh
Marc:you know his his uh kids you know and that thing like that just seemed like there just seemed in conversation with him that there was a lot there that he was just like on you know by personal policy not going to address but it was right there under the surface and there was you know there was anger there there was complexity there and it was just not you know he wasn't going to give it to me and he gave you a little bit but still there you know it's you still feel that there's something palpable under there
Guest:Yeah, it's interesting because he does always say exactly the same words.
Guest:Like if you ask him the same question again, he says it exactly the same way with the same pauses.
Guest:And at the same, you know, he says at the same position, he says, I am not going to talk about it.
Guest:So it's sort of a, it's like a prepared line.
Marc:Personal script.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's interesting, right?
Marc:Well, Sophie, thank you for talking to me and rounding this out because after talking to him, I just wanted to make sure that I did the film justice because I really enjoyed the film.
Marc:But I just thought it was hilarious that, you know, for me, you know, that after watching it, knowing that I was going to get to interview this guy who I respected a lot.
Marc:But after watching the film, in my mind, I was like, well, that's all she got out of him.
Marc:You know, conversationally.
Marc:I mean, the film is a lot more than a conversation.
Marc:Then I'm going to have a hard time.
Marc:But this makes me feel better.
Marc:And I think also bringing your perspective into it in terms of what you had to deal with and in terms of how truly mysterious this guy is and remains, I think it helped me out.
Guest:Yeah, I'm glad you didn't get more out of him than I did because otherwise you should have done the documentary.
Marc:Thanks for talking to me, Sophie.
Guest:Thank you.
Marc:All right, that's the show, folks.
Marc:I hope you enjoyed that.
Marc:It was a little unique, a unique experience.
Marc:Remember, not a psychopath, not bipolar, just funny.
Marc:And a bit inconsistent at that, I might add.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com.
Marc:Get all your WTFPod needs met.
Marc:Get that app.
Marc:We're putting the premium content on that app and giving you a little primer.
Marc:Me and Brendan McDonald telling you about the episodes in bulk, things you might have missed.
Marc:Doing the premium content thing.
Marc:What else we got?
Marc:JustCoffee.coop, of course.
Marc:As always, if you get the WTF blend, I get a little bit on the back end of that.
Marc:Leave a few comments.
Marc:Check the episode guide, will ya?
Marc:Don't pester me.
Marc:thinky pain my most current special is an hour and a half of me being me being funny as available amazon i'm gonna i'm gonna unveil that uh that dvd in a bigger way on monday so i'm teasing the unveiling is that the right word i always associate that word with a tombstone because i'm a jew oh god i gotta go shoot my show i gotta go it's morning i'm all coffeed up i've eaten my oatmeal because i know that will fix everything in my heart
Marc:Sure, man.
Marc:Buy it.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:Believe it.
Marc:Believe the hype.
Marc:All you need is oatmeal.
Marc:Boomer lives!