Episode 460 - Will Forte
Guest:Lock the gates!
Marc:Alright, let's do this.
Marc:How are you, what the fuckers?
Marc:What the fuck buddies?
Marc:What the fuckineers?
Marc:What the fucknicks?
Marc:What the fuckstables?
Marc:What the fuckadelics?
Marc:What the fuckaholics?
Marc:I am Marc Maron.
Marc:This is WTF.
Marc:It's early in the morning.
Marc:That is also a Harry Nelson song.
Marc:A good one.
Marc:But it is early.
Marc:Things are going alright.
Marc:I'm a little tired.
Marc:I'm not going to complain.
Marc:Look, I know a lot of you are out there digging your shit out of snow.
Marc:Sub-zero temperatures.
Marc:I hear reports on the NPR that some of the temperatures are dangerous for the children and the elderly.
Marc:That's fucking cold if your grandma's going to freeze.
Marc:You got to make sure the baby's room's heated properly.
Marc:So you don't wake up to a babysicle.
Marc:Ah, it's horrible.
Marc:Horrible.
Marc:I would scratch that from the record of jokes that came out of my mouth if I had a way to do it, and I do, but I'm not gonna, I guess.
Marc:pow look out just coffee.coop just shit my pants man i got that all jangled up hey i know it's cold i know people's lives are harder than mine and uh but i am up a little early i can't sleep in the morning i don't know what that's about as you get older does your body know you're running out of time
Marc:And need you to get up earlier?
Marc:Come on, dude.
Marc:Not that much left.
Marc:I don't know if that's a form of insomnia.
Marc:I wake up at 5.36 and I'm like, what?
Marc:I mean, I seem to be able to go to sleep at night.
Marc:I'm not spinning the plates then.
Marc:I'm not working all the angles.
Marc:You know, looking for panic options.
Marc:Yeah, could you upload a list of panic options, please, before I go to bed?
Marc:Thank you, brain.
Marc:What do we got?
Marc:General death now.
Marc:The dating.
Marc:How about just basic dread that you're never going to write an hour of stand-up again?
Marc:The shooting thing and the fact that Thinkie Payne is done, hour and a half of stand-up comedy available on Netflix.
Marc:Also season one of Marin, which I'm finding nobody saw.
Marc:I don't know if nobody has IFC or if it's just that people don't know where it is.
Marc:I'm just happy it's up on Netflix.
Marc:The first season of Marin, 10 episodes, up on Netflix, people are digging it.
Marc:I know, and I've talked about this before, that more people don't know who I am than know who I am.
Marc:But Jesus, it's kind of weird when you put as much work into putting yourself out there, and it's just what you do when people on Twitter say, like, where have I been?
Marc:Who's this Marin guy?
Marc:I don't know, but I think you got here at a good time because I don't know how much time I have left.
Marc:That's not a dark or cynical thing.
Marc:It just is what it is.
Marc:I'm glad people are finding it.
Marc:Marin, season one, 10 episodes on Netflix and Thinkie Payne, an hour and a half of stand-up comedy, also on Netflix.
Marc:Now I got to get into the new hour.
Marc:But I don't have it a lot of time because I'm shooting the second season of Marin.
Marc:Will Forte is on the show today, and I didn't know him.
Marc:I never met him before, and I was a little nervous, but what a pleasant guy.
Marc:Nice guy.
Marc:And I'll tell you, that movie Nebraska, all these best of the year movie lists are coming out as we head into Oscar saison.
Marc:Is that how you say that?
Marc:With an accent of my own making?
Marc:I enjoyed Nebraska.
Marc:You know, I get screeners because I'm a member of several different unions.
Marc:It's a union thing.
Marc:A lot of people think like, oh, you Hollywood types.
Marc:No, it's a union thing.
Marc:Buy the union.
Marc:You know, we get the good movies before you see them.
Marc:It's a union thing.
Marc:Sit in my Teamster chair in my living room and watch movies.
Marc:But I enjoyed Nebraska.
Marc:I'll tell you, man, that Alexander Payne fella, I've always liked the movies he's made with him and his partner, Jim.
Marc:And this one was his own.
Marc:He directed it.
Marc:He did not write it.
Marc:And maybe it's just me.
Marc:I don't know if you saw it or not.
Marc:But I kind of like bleak comedy.
Marc:I kind of like it if it's done well, if it's balanced properly.
Marc:The Coen brothers do it very well, and Alexander and Jim do it very well.
Marc:But the amazing thing about this film, about Nebraska, that I thought anyways was that, and I just said thought with a New York accent.
Marc:I don't know why.
Marc:It was the only word in that sentence that I said that way, but I did it.
Marc:Was that, you know, with digital film, I mean, it's very easy to knock out a movie.
Marc:It's very easy to knock out anything with with digital technology.
Marc:But I think that Nebraska is the first black and white digital film I have seen where he really worked the tones, the tonal possibilities of black and white.
Marc:I mean, there's you can't I don't think that shooting a black and white film should just be, you know, shutting off the color switch on the camera.
Marc:And it seemed that Alexander Payne with Nebraska was really looking very full tone palette and also framing every shot, almost every shot beautifully on a photographic level.
Marc:I mean, the Midwest can be bleak, and he definitely captured that.
Marc:And I think that using black and white was great.
Marc:The whole thing was like an updated Dorothea Lange photograph in motion.
Marc:But I just thought it was stunning that there's such a difference between somebody paying an amazing amount of attention to the tonal qualities of black and white and also to framing, and then to have this story and have Bruce Dern and Will Forte, who did a great job, and the woman who played his wife.
Marc:Now it's eluding me.
Marc:I'll talk to Will about it.
Marc:I just thought it was a hilarious movie, but also touching and stunning to look at.
Marc:Because of the attention paid to actually working black and white.
Marc:I think we take too much for granted, man.
Marc:You know, black and white's important.
Marc:It's like the last picture show.
Marc:Kind of like that.
Marc:And I do want to report that if it's okay with you guys, I've been dating a bit.
Marc:And man, scary.
Marc:A little scary, man.
Marc:A little bit scary.
Marc:As time goes on, the more relationships you have...
Marc:Bitterness is certainly possible.
Marc:Bitterness, paralyzed with fear, might be another way to put it, of being hurt or having the whole thing go to shit again, is there.
Marc:And I'll tell you, man, there's something about people who stay with one relationship their entire life, for better or for worse, limit their contempt to an individual.
Marc:That means...
Marc:I think it's probably easier, and this is I think for men and women, to keep contempt intimate.
Marc:That if you stay in one relationship, you know, for a good chunk of your life, you know, fortunately for you, you'll probably just hate that one man or that one woman on a very deep level.
Marc:Hopefully your love will outweigh the hate or outbalance the hate.
Marc:But you sort of make your contempt intimate.
Marc:Whereas I think if you go through a lot of relationships that either hurt you or disappoint you, the possibility...
Marc:for misogyny and or man-hating, I think it's much higher.
Marc:I think that to keep contempt and hate intimate to the relationship you have by staying in it and working through stuff, it's probably better than being disillusioned and consumed with anger over many relationships going wrong because then it's easy to say, fuck them all.
Marc:So I guess the message here is keep hate intimate.
Marc:Keep hate at home.
Marc:And make sure that love outweighs it.
Marc:If you can.
Marc:And if you've been through a lot of shit, try to go into the next thing with an open heart.
Marc:Good luck with that.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm in a new world right now, folks.
Marc:Dating age appropriately.
Marc:And I'm a little bowled over by the situation.
Marc:I feel like a fucking teenager and it's making me nervous.
Marc:How's that?
Marc:All right, look, let's talk to Will Forte, who is a great guy.
Marc:And it's another in a long line of SNL guests.
Marc:But his story is a little different than most.
Marc:And I'm wearing a bathrobe today with nothing under it.
Marc:This might be a theme for the new year.
Marc:Near nude or nude broadcasting.
Marc:All right, here's Will Forte and me in the garage.
Marc:Yeah, I've always done it out here.
Marc:The first few I did in New York in a studio, but then from there on out, once I moved here, occasionally I'll travel to people.
Marc:You were not one of those people.
Marc:That's all right.
Guest:I was not coming to you, Will.
Guest:I'm not upset.
Guest:I know my place.
Marc:No, it's not a placing.
Marc:If you were really old or really- Like Jack Nicholson.
Marc:I would go to Jack Nicholson.
Marc:You could travel to Jack Nicholson.
Marc:Yeah, wouldn't you?
Marc:For anything, right?
Marc:If Jack wants you to come over because he wants you to look at his yard.
Marc:Yeah, I'll go.
Marc:I'll go.
Guest:yeah of course I want you to come look at my yard and pay me a thousand dollars to do it okay yeah that sounds great can I bring a camera you haven't met him though have you I just got to meet him through Nebraska he was buddies with Bruce back in the day so he threw to Bruce a screening
Guest:Come on.
Guest:Like I had a screening and invited a bunch of friends.
Guest:At his house.
Guest:No, at WME or whatever agency he's with at their screening place.
Guest:So Jack was at the screening.
Guest:Yeah, he introduced the screening and then like Mickey Rooney was there.
Guest:Mickey Rooney?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I didn't even know he was still alive.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Marc:Who else?
Guest:Who else from the old crew?
Guest:Peter Fonda.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Those are the main... Oh, Bud Court was there.
Marc:Oh, really?
Marc:Bill Hader.
Marc:Yeah, Bill Hader I know from the 70s.
Marc:Bill Hader's wonderful.
Marc:He's one of that crew back in Laura Hanyan.
Guest:I heard Sean Penn was there, but I never saw him.
Marc:How big was the screening room?
Marc:How could you not see him?
Guest:It was... Like theater size?
Yeah.
Guest:probably 400 people oh really yeah something like that the agency actually my mom was there too so i was trying to take care of my mom and then you know it how old's your mom she's 70 just turned 70 you mean just take care of her make sure she was seated and i just wanted to make she doesn't know anybody there so i wanted to make sure that that uh let me make sure she was sitting not sitting next to peter fonda or that was gonna get weird
Marc:I saw Nebraska and I loved it.
Marc:Oh, thanks.
Marc:And I wouldn't say that.
Marc:If I didn't like it, I would have said something like, I thought you were good.
Marc:I mean, I really thought that what you did, some of the stuff you were doing was really good.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:That'd be the horrible way.
Marc:No, I liked everything about it.
Marc:Thank you.
Marc:I thought you were great.
Marc:I thought that he did something with...
Marc:With digital black and white that really hasn't been done yet, which is really considerate as black and white film in a way.
Marc:I think a lot of times you see black and white stuff that's shot on video.
Marc:It just looks like they turn the color off and they're just doing it for effect.
Marc:But I think he really went out of his way to frame everything beautifully and push the contrast in a really nice way so everything looked like a photograph.
Marc:It was stunning.
Guest:Yeah, it really does look like a lot of Ansel Adams photographs that people are acting in front of.
Marc:Right, who was the one that did all those Dust Bowl photos, Dorothea Lange, those kind of photographs, that too.
Marc:But yeah, with the skies, like Ansel Adams, yeah.
Marc:So you notice that.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, it's beautiful.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's beautiful.
Marc:So walk me through the whole process, because, I mean, this movie is... You're primarily known as a comic guy.
Marc:You're a funny fella.
Marc:SNL, whatnot.
Marc:But not many funny guys really make a transition like this, really.
Marc:I mean, this was a real acting role.
Marc:It was not... I mean, the movie has comic moments, but you are in no way a comedic character.
Marc:So...
Marc:Because you went to Cannes with this thing, didn't you?
Marc:Yes.
Marc:Did you go?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You were there.
Marc:So this is a big thing for you.
Marc:I mean, you've never been through any of this shit.
Guest:Oh, it is such a collection of things that I've never... Just a collection of new experiences.
Marc:Everything.
Marc:Okay, so when did it first... Let's walk through the whole Nebraska process, and then we'll go back with the other stuff.
Marc:Okay.
Marc:So you're just a guy.
Marc:You've done the MacGruber movie.
Marc:You've done some TV.
Marc:You've appeared in movies.
Marc:You're a comic among comics guy.
Marc:With your generation, with Hader and those guys.
Marc:And you're just sitting around.
Marc:And how does Nebraska happen?
Marc:Okay.
Guest:I have an agent named Joe.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And she sent me this script, said, you got to read this script.
Guest:Alexander Payne would look at a submission if you submitted something.
Marc:So it was her idea in a way.
Marc:She said, you know, maybe Will's good for this.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:And I, and I know pain.
Marc:He's, you know, that's what agents do.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And she made it seem like he was interested in a tape for me when essentially after, after you get to know him, you just realize he'll look at anybody's tape.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So, so he, I don't think she ever said, Hey, I got this guy.
Guest:Do you know him?
Guest:Cause he had never heard of me before this.
Marc:That's interesting.
Marc:So that was a good agent move.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He wants to see a tape.
Guest:She just knew that he'll look at anything that's said to him.
Guest:So I was like, oh my God, Alexander Payne wants to see this.
Guest:So I better, I gotta, like, he's probably waiting for this.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I better hurry.
Guest:So you built this relationship in your head.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:He wants to see me?
Marc:Okay, okay.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Even even I just still thought there's no way I would ever get this part.
Guest:But the script I loved the script.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:And I'm a huge fan of his.
Marc:What resonated with you with the script?
Marc:I mean, like you were it was for that part.
Marc:It was not for the other brother.
Marc:Right.
Marc:You were reading for that part.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:What was it?
Marc:What was his name?
Marc:David.
Marc:David.
Marc:David Grant.
Marc:David Grant.
Marc:Now.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you're looking at that thing and it moved you somehow.
Guest:Yeah, my grandpa on my mom's side was very similar to the Woody character, the part that Bruce Dern plays.
Guest:Oh, really?
Guest:Yeah, really, I mean, a lovable version of that.
Guest:Didn't talk a lot, so you could be very frustrated with him, but still love him.
Guest:You're just not getting much communication-wise, so it just felt very familiar to me.
Guest:Oh, good, yeah.
Guest:And also a lot of the family dynamics, not necessarily the mother-father, brother-brother relationship, but a lot of the aunts and uncles.
Guest:The cousins.
Guest:There was something about that grandpa's brothers and sisters that felt like a lot of the conversations that were had in this movie, even though they were in Modesto, California, and this all takes place in Nebraska, it seemed like that car conversation I had heard a million times.
Marc:Well, is it interesting, too, also, when you meet your grandparents' siblings, where you're like, what were they like when they were people?
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, when they were running around being things.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you can't, you know, it's a very odd thing.
Marc:And I remember from a very young age, when you meet your grandparents, you're like, were you ever, like, you know, running around doing things?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you see pictures from them in the war, like, you were a guy then, a little guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:interesting now to look at yourself i've seen my parents as they're getting closer to right what i remember of my grandparents and just following that cycle of life and and realizing your own place in that and going oh my god i'm about where my parents were i'm moving that i'm seeing they're laying out this trek yeah this this track for me and i'm gonna you know hopefully if i don't you know
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Something weird happens.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Then I'll go there too and you just kind of see how it all happens.
Marc:How old are you?
Marc:It's very interesting.
Marc:43.
Marc:Yeah, but I just turned 50 and I'm not really feeling a transition.
Marc:You don't have kids or anything, do you?
Guest:I don't have kids.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, so there's nothing there every day reminding me that my life is fading away.
Marc:In a way, not to be cynical, but lately I'm like, I have to tell myself like, I'm 50.
Marc:I earned this.
Marc:I earned whatever.
Marc:I may not feel it or act like one, but I earned this.
Guest:I would never guess that you were 50 years old.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Very, very young.
Marc:Well, yeah, that's because I don't take on any heavy responsibilities that involve other people.
Guest:Keep doing it.
Marc:Can't handle a relationship.
Marc:I got no kids.
Marc:It's keeping me young.
Marc:It's spirit.
Marc:Yes.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you read this thing.
Marc:And how do you make the tape?
Guest:Uh, just recorded it.
Guest:My girlfriend at the time, uh, did the, the Bruce Dern lines in kind of an old man voice, uh, and film me doing it with, with one of those, what are they called?
Guest:The little flip cams.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:The flip cameras.
Marc:Oh yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And, uh, and that was it.
Guest:Yeah, I probably did each scene 10 or 12 times.
Guest:With your girlfriend going, hello.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:She's great.
Guest:She's a great actress.
Guest:And sent them in.
Guest:You know, I thought, oh, this isn't that bad.
Guest:This is pretty good.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I'm just not used to that kind of stuff.
Guest:So I didn't know if, oh, is this really good?
Guest:Is it kind of lame?
Guest:How will somebody like Alexander Payne look at this?
Marc:Well, right.
Marc:But you mean that kind of stuff like serious acting?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Like I know...
Guest:Well, I mean, I don't know.
Guest:I know when I'm happy with something comedically.
Guest:Because you know where the laughs are.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Or they're supposed to be.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And you go, oh, I really felt good about that.
Guest:But with this, it just was, oh, that feels pretty good.
Guest:But I don't, you know, I don't have a very well-tuned gauge.
Marc:Were you conscious of doing something differently in terms of when you were reading with your girlfriend?
Marc:Because you know that there's no laugh line, so there's no decision to be made about, well, that's the funny part, and then if I make this choice, that'll be funnier.
Marc:What did you put into place?
Marc:Were you more yourself?
Guest:Yeah, I was just playing it as myself, trying to be as, I guess, as real as possible.
Marc:Emotionally authentic.
Guest:Because I thought like, I don't know, try not to act too much.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Just feel it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But you didn't grow up with alcoholism or any of that?
Guest:Uh, no, I mean, you know, little, little, uh, nothing direct.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Cause they're like that.
Marc:I mean that in the movie, I thought that was an interesting moment where you learn that your character, you know, is struggling with drinking on some level.
Marc:Like it made a decision to stop for whatever reason.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And his, you don't really know why his marriage is not working or his, or, well, the girlfriend thing, it's cousin marriage or this or that, but just being lost, uh,
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Untethered.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I'm always fascinated with scripts and with stories where there's emotional logic to the generations.
Marc:It was clear that you were his son.
Marc:There was very specific reasons.
Marc:That's just good writing, I think.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:The script is great.
Guest:And, you know, the connection stuff, when you say that right there, you know, I'm 43 and I'm not married, never been married, don't have any kids.
Guest:So, you know, in a way I'm kind of floating a little bit.
Guest:You know, I'm...
Guest:And career-wise, things have been very... With this, fantastic.
Guest:How exciting to get to be a part of this movie.
Guest:So I'm happy with that stuff, but that whole other side of my life is just...
Guest:A mess.
Guest:Not a mess, just hasn't come together in the way that I thought it would.
Guest:Growing up as a kid, you just see your parents, their whole situation.
Guest:You think, oh, that'll be my situation.
Guest:I'll get married at 23 and I'll have my first kid at 25 and my second kid at 27.
Guest:And then 23 comes and 25 comes and goes, I'm supposed to have a baby right now.
Guest:This is when I'm supposed to have a baby.
Marc:You actually have a biological clock in the back of your head?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, my parents are very young too, but I think that they're probably kind of the same generation, it sounds like, give or take a few years.
Marc:That's just what they did.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, it wasn't sort of like, I got career things to worry about, not ready for this yet.
Marc:They just did that.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:It was almost like with no second thought.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Just going to pop out some kids and build the thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But how was your, so what do you got?
Marc:You got brothers, sisters?
Guest:Got one sister.
Guest:She's two years older.
Guest:She started having kids.
Guest:So that's been wonderful to get to have this niece and nephew.
Marc:But that's also a reminder that like, where's my life?
Guest:Those should be my kids.
Guest:And they should be 10 years older, both of them.
Guest:Yeah, so it's been really fun to see her go through that and get to be an uncle.
Guest:Well, what's your obstacle, you think?
Guest:i don't know i think i think the obstacles are fading away yeah um well you can't say like i'm still working i gotta earn a living and i don't know my career well you know it's weird because i don't think it was ever i don't think it was ever uh uh that i was focusing too much on uh work stuff i don't think that was that was what stopped it
Guest:I think it was just, definitely there is some OCD in my system, and for a long time I just thought that, oh, that just affects the things that are very clear that it affects, like the checking the stove, checking the faucets before I go out, making sure the doors are locked.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Stuff like that.
Marc:Do you ever go back to make sure your house isn't on fire?
Guest:Well, not usually because I do a really good job leaving.
Guest:You throw a checklist?
Guest:Yeah, so I always know.
Guest:Wait, how long have you had this?
Guest:A long time, and I don't ever use my stove.
Guest:I check it.
Guest:I have the same thing.
Guest:Religiously.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then after a while, you realize, oh, these things are also present in other parts of my life that I, as you get older, you realize, oh, this OCD stuff affects how I am in relationships.
Guest:Like how?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:uh well like like uh here's an here's this doesn't have to do with relationships yeah like in leaving uh a party yeah it takes me forever to say goodbye because i want that closure on every gotta be thorough say goodbye to them i want to make sure i say goodbye to that it's like i like i want a the happy ending of a movie you're compulsively polite conversation that i've had
Guest:Yeah, it's a sickness, a polite sickness.
Marc:But if you leave a party and you're like, oh, I didn't say goodbye, you got to go back?
Marc:Run back in?
Marc:No.
Marc:Hey, sorry, sorry.
Guest:But I will, in my head, I'll go like, I'm going to send that person a text tomorrow and say, sorry, I didn't get to say goodbye, or something like that.
Marc:Well, that's a good OCD.
Guest:No, it can be.
Guest:But not when you're in a relationship with somebody and you're taking up time with these.
Guest:And a lot of times, these will be people that maybe I'm not super good friends with.
Marc:Right.
Guest:I mean, if I'm really good friends with somebody, they're not going to care if I say goodbye.
Guest:You know, I'll see them again.
Guest:They'll say, oh, you left early.
Guest:I didn't get to say bye.
Guest:And it's like, they don't care.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And if it's...
Guest:And sometimes I'll put myself in a position of like, oh, that person left this party without saying bye to me.
Guest:Did I care?
Guest:No, not at all.
Guest:So why would I think they would care if I did the same thing?
Guest:Right.
Guest:But anyway, so in a relationship, all this energy will be devoted to spending time worrying about making sure others are happy.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That aren't as important as the girlfriend should be to me.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:So as I get older, I realize, okay, I gotta, you know, you reprioritize and you, I'm also getting a handle on the OCD stuff.
Guest:I mean, it'll always be there with me, but just.
Marc:So you're saying when you're with somebody else, when you're in a relationship with a woman,
Guest:that you you're kind of compulsively worrying about all these other things and you're didn't you're denying time to that yeah there will be there will be things i'll do i'll go out of my way to do favors for people yeah that i don't know very well somebody will say like the other day so oh will you send a poster to my brother and so i spent a half hour yeah uh
Guest:Maybe an hour.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Dealing with getting the tube for the poster, this and that.
Guest:I've had this script I've had to write forever.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that's an hour that I'm behind on that.
Guest:And then eventually, that's going to come out of time that I would spend with my family at Christmas.
Marc:Stuff you need to do.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:People you need to be with.
Marc:You get locked in with something else.
Marc:Have you thought about...
Marc:Because I have a little of it.
Marc:And it's odd because the character of David Grant is also the child of an alcoholic, a chaotic father that was absent and emotionally erratic.
Marc:And you're the brother who wants to make it okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:For dad.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:You know, that you're the one that's going to show up even though he's, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever.
Marc:You still feel that emotional connection to try to make it okay for a guy that is not never going to be okay.
Marc:Really?
Marc:He's just always going to be what he's going to be.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You know, but if you can do a little bit of something.
Marc:It'll also make you feel better.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But I've had experiences with that.
Marc:You ever think about where it came from or when it started manifesting itself?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I actually did recently read a book on narcissism.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Which one?
Guest:The Wizard of Oz and Other Narcissists.
Marc:Really?
Marc:Is that a, that's a, it's not a self-help book.
Marc:It's a, it's just a fun book or what is it?
Guest:It's just kind of a, it is a, it's, I guess it is a self-help book.
Guest:And why, why would you read a book on narcissism?
Guest:I went through a situation with where I was, I knew a narcissist.
Guest:Let's put it that way.
Marc:And then in reading that, you... A real one, not just someone who is narcissistic, but a real narcissist.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Scary.
Guest:And the interesting thing is I fit into the... Enabler?
Guest:Enabler and... Oh, my God.
Guest:I'm blanking on the term.
Guest:It's a really easy term also.
Guest:Codependent?
Guest:Yeah, codependent.
Guest:Um, and what this book says is being, uh, codependent like that is a form of narcissism also.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Interesting.
Guest:Because you, you have this in your head, you're saying like, oh, I can help this person.
Guest:Like you make yourself feel important by thinking, oh, I can, I will be the one to be able to turn this person.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Not.
Marc:It's, it's, it's an, it's a draining thing, man.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I went through it recently.
Marc:And it's innate.
Marc:So in order to stop it, it feels emotionally peculiar.
Marc:To know that I can't help that person.
Marc:Not my job.
Marc:This pre-existed me.
Marc:It's unfixable.
Marc:Can't change people unless they're willing to change themselves.
Marc:It's just exhausting emotionally.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Oh, and it's so sad.
Guest:But the older you get, and you'll probably agree with me, you just realize like...
Guest:okay, I can't fix everything.
Guest:I have to be good to myself because in being good to myself, that will be being good to the people around me also.
Guest:By all the people I care about, I will be able to be a better family member, friend to them when I am clear of all this stuff.
Marc:Yeah, or at least able to make decisions around it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:When the impulse occurs, you don't have to honor it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think there was a better way for me to have just described it.
Guest:I didn't do it, but I think you know what I'm saying.
Marc:No, yeah, if you keep the focus on you and you don't... Because the thing is that there's a sensitivity to it, and maybe we share it.
Marc:If you're a sensitive person, even if it's too sensitive...
Marc:for whatever reason, and I think a lot of creative people are, is narcissists and people who are emotionally predatory.
Marc:We're just, you know, we got signs on our head.
Marc:They're like, that's the guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:you know yes we don't know it they don't know it but it happens yeah and it's almost it's it's it's it's not serendipitous it's it's actual emotional wiring and people feel that innately yeah and that's how you get into those situations i was just in one and uh yeah it's difficult to realize like you know when you're the one going like why you know when you think it's not you that to really identify that as as an issue it's tricky because you're right i think sadness is a
Marc:Is what happens is that when you can't honor your desire to try to fix somebody.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It is sad.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Because then all you're left with is empathy.
Marc:You know, if you're relatively healthy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You want this person to be happy and you just realize, oh, there's you just have to give up eventually.
Marc:Well, that's interesting because this is your character.
Marc:I mean, this is the journey of the character in Nebraska.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:did you know that uh it you know it's it's interesting because you did you learn many things yeah i kind of i think i probably unconsciously knew it the whole time but but as you go through it and then look back and a lot of these lessons i was learning as the experience happened you know so there were it you know but now you look back and you go oh that's you i see so many parallels that
Guest:I've probably seen the movie 20 to 25 times now at different festivals and stuff like that, and it's interesting to see it so many times because you keep taking different things away from it.
Guest:You see things in the performances, but the overall theme of the movie comes at you differently depending on the type of day you're having that day.
Guest:So it's so interesting to see something so many times like that.
Guest:Um, but yeah, there, there are a lot of little connections I've, I've made and, and it's, it's also really fascinating because it's, uh, you know, I have a great relationship with my, my family, but it's, it just shows you like the little, uh, it just makes me want to be an even better family member.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I, I, you know, it's, it's, uh, I don't know, all these things coming together.
Guest:I feel like,
Guest:It's about the right time, man.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:No, I'm feeling good.
Guest:I felt, I don't know, I don't want to say a little lost, but certainly I feel like I'm...
Guest:I'm evolving.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Guest:I'm, you know.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think becoming a better person, but, you know.
Marc:Yeah, or more yourself.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Well, how'd you grow up?
Marc:I mean, what was the, what kind of kid were you?
Guest:I was a really happy kid.
Guest:My parents were wonderful, created this very loving environment.
Guest:I had a bunch of great friends.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:Every step of the way, I didn't want to end.
Guest:I remembered junior high, I didn't want to go to high school.
Guest:Actually, junior high wasn't a big deal because I was just going to high school with all the same people.
Marc:What about elementary school?
Guest:I feel like I was always happy.
Guest:What was your interest?
Guest:The Oakland Raiders.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:I wanted to be a football player.
Guest:From early on?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So you weren't like an artsy kid?
Guest:I have tapes of doing old radio shows, just making up radio shows.
Guest:I love Dr. Don.
Guest:Do you remember Dr. Don Lee Rose?
Guest:Was he out here?
Guest:He was a Northern California guy.
Marc:Where were you growing up then?
Guest:Outside San Francisco.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Which town?
Guest:Lafayette.
Marc:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:Lafayette.
Guest:Moraga until I was 13, then Lafayette.
Marc:There used to be a gig in Lafayette.
Marc:I lived in San Francisco for two years.
Guest:Yeah, right in Walnut Creek, right?
Guest:Yeah, or there was a punchline in Walnut Creek.
Guest:Yeah, right on the border of Lafayette and Walnut Creek.
Guest:Yeah, I did that.
Guest:A great place to grow up.
Guest:Just close enough to the city, but the city didn't matter to me as a kid.
Guest:But you're only 25 minutes away from the city, and it was a pretty fun, slow-paced life.
Marc:It's beautiful up there.
Marc:It's beautiful in the Bay Area.
Marc:What did your old man do?
Guest:He worked in the city in the financial industry.
Guest:He was like a stock analyst.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Still?
Guest:No, now he's just like a ski bum.
Guest:He lives up at the base of Squaw Valley and skis all the time.
Guest:Really?
Guest:He loves it.
Guest:He loves it.
Guest:So he retired.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:He's a ski bum.
Marc:He's got some bread.
Marc:This is how he's living it out.
Guest:He's 70 years old and skis every day.
Guest:And his dad, who's still alive and is 95, skied until he was like 89.
Marc:Sturdy people.
Guest:He doesn't ski as much as... He was way more of a golfer.
Guest:He doesn't golf... Actually, no, he doesn't golf anymore, but...
Guest:But he skied until he was 89.
Guest:I think my dad is, you know, God willing, he'll be doing the same thing.
Marc:And your folks are together?
Guest:Not together.
Guest:They divorced like 20 years ago.
Guest:So you're already grown up.
Guest:Yeah, I was just...
Guest:It was, it was, I always wonder, I'm really happy they didn't get divorced when I was a kid.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But then this was a weird time also because I was just graduating from college.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life.
Guest:And in my head, I was like, at least I have this wonderful family.
Guest:And then I get the phone call.
Guest:And it's still, you know, it's still, you have a wonderful family, but it's, but it's,
Guest:It's different.
Marc:You have to adjust.
Marc:Now where do I stay when I go home?
Marc:Now I got to see where my dad's living.
Marc:It's a weird transition.
Guest:The great thing though is they're all buddies.
Guest:Are they both remarried?
Guest:My mom has never remarried.
Guest:My dad remarried and re-divorced.
Guest:We'll all spend Christmas together.
Guest:Really?
Guest:And have a great time.
Guest:It took a little while, but we're all... The four of you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:And it's really fun.
Guest:And he's a wonderful grandpa.
Guest:Mom's a wonderful grandma.
Guest:And it's really fun to all have at least a little bit of time where we're a family unit again.
Marc:It's very diplomatic and nice.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So now they're just buddies?
Marc:They're okay?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And the oddest thing, the thing that brought them together was his new wife.
Guest:They're not together, but he is still friends with that ex-wife also.
Guest:But she is this wonderful, wonderful woman.
Guest:And my mom and dad had to be in the same place at the same time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For an event?
Guest:God, now I feel bad.
Guest:I'm totally talking.
Guest:I hope none of their friends are listening to this.
Guest:It's all good.
Guest:Yeah, but they were, you know, for some...
Guest:event like a wedding or something.
Guest:They had to be in the same place at the same time.
Guest:My mom got to talking with my dad's wife, Valerie, and they became really good buds.
Guest:And that brought, it was so great.
Guest:And that brought her and my dad closer.
Guest:And it's so fun to see them together because they have a really fun relationship.
Marc:You remember it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That's a very sweet story.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:There's no sadness there.
Marc:Nothing dark about it.
Marc:Nothing dark.
Marc:That's unbelievable.
Guest:Except for the dark stuff.
Guest:It's great.
Guest:No, it's all light.
Guest:Mom, dad, I love you.
Guest:No, they're still married.
Guest:My parents are still married.
Marc:I was joking.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:Oh, good.
Guest:Good save.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:What did your mom do when you were growing up?
Guest:She was a teacher and then gave that up to raise us.
Guest:Mm-hmm.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So it's sort of straight up middle class upbringing.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Just you and your sister.
Guest:Me and my sister.
Guest:Dad did pretty well financially and put us both through college, and we never had to worry about that stuff.
Guest:It was a deal where if we got really good grades, he would pay for our education.
Guest:And if we didn't, then we'd have to start paying our own way.
Guest:But I thought, oh, that's a pretty good deal to just get good grades.
Guest:I wanted to get good grades.
Marc:Anyway, he seemed like a pretty practical fellow.
Marc:You couldn't have been pursuing anything too abstract.
Marc:What were you studying?
Guest:I didn't know what I wanted to do.
Guest:And his advice to me, which I followed, was just do a general.
Guest:You know, I was a history major.
Guest:So he said, just keep it general and then you can figure out what you want to do.
Guest:And then you'll, you know, go down that that path.
Guest:And what'd you end up... It's interesting because Alexander Payne is... In doing a bunch of Q&As for the movie, I hear him give that same advice.
Guest:He'll say that his advice to people going into... Even if they want to be a filmmaker, take a...
Guest:be a history major or something yeah uh english english lit yeah anything and then go to film school and learned he said you know you can always learn to make movies but you know get a a very broad education a foundation yeah liberal arts education my dad would tell me yeah uh and so that's what i did and when you graduated what were you like that day of graduation you're like here we go i what's what are we gonna do
Guest:Well, I did what my dad did.
Guest:I went to, it was, God, the name changed so many times, Smith Barney, or Smith Barney Shearson, or maybe it was Shearson Lehman Brothers when I got there.
Guest:But it was, I was working for this guy, cold calling for him, and just, it wasn't for me.
Guest:But I was, I didn't know what I wanted to do, so I would sit there.
Guest:I think I started writing while I was working there.
Guest:With what in mind?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I know I wrote a movie script, a feature-length script.
Guest:What did you do, read Sid Field's book?
Guest:No, just started.
Guest:Just started.
Guest:Didn't have any, you know, this is before Final Draft even existed, I guess.
Guest:So we would just kind of approximate where, we would get a script and try to approximate where the dialogue should be.
Marc:You were writing with someone else?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, this woman, Anne.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And wrote a script, and then the guy asked me, the guy who I was working for asked me to, he said he would pay for me to do the Series 7, and he wanted me to join up with him as a junior partner to him.
Marc:To do bank brokering, or whatever it is.
Marc:Was it clear what it was?
Guest:It was at that point I realized if I did that with the...
Guest:my general personality, I would, that would have been it.
Guest:I would, there's no way I would ever commit to that, go through this guy's test and then ever leave him.
Guest:I would just, I would, my sense of duty.
Guest:Loyalty.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Loyalty and OCD.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Would have forced you to do the best you could for that guy.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I said, all right, I'm going to try to do comedy and went to the groundlings.
Guest:But that was the hardest thing was telling my family that I wanted to go into comedy.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Did they see you as a funny guy?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, I always was...
Guest:Weird, I guess you'd say.
Guest:You know, weird and would push the envelope with them a little bit.
Guest:I mean, I certainly was not a trained comedian.
Guest:The weird thing for me was telling them I wanted to do it because to me it felt like by even saying that you wanted to go into comedy was almost like bragging that you thought that you were funny enough to make it in comedy.
Guest:So that was hard for me to...
Guest:to make that statement.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But then I finally just said, I got to do this or I'm going to go crazy.
Guest:And I told them and they were supportive, incredibly supportive.
Marc:Well, it's interesting for a guy with OCD that likes having some order or at least some sense of control in his life.
Marc:The fact that you're able to turn your back on an opportunity, not because you didn't want to do it, but more so because you knew if you got into it that you wouldn't be able to pull yourself out because you thought you owed the guy something or that you wouldn't.
Marc:I'm going to spend my life just paying this guy back for dragging me into a life I didn't want.
Marc:You had enough foresight to know that not only is it not for me, but if I do do it, I'll never leave it.
Guest:I was waking up.
Guest:I was stressed out.
Guest:I woke up knowing that this was the wrong thing for me from the very beginning.
Marc:So comedy, though, that offers no real system or process.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That didn't cause you aggravation or fear or anxiety?
Guest:That was why writing was always... When I was going through the grounding system, so much of it is out of your control.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, you try to do the best work you can.
Guest:You were, what, 21, 22?
Guest:By that point, probably 24.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:When I started the, you know, you've got to go through several levels before you get to the performing, to the stage.
Guest:Who was in it when you were there?
Guest:It was, like, Maya Rudolph and Jim Rash.
Marc:They were the main stage?
Guest:Oh, when I...
Guest:I went to a Sunday show when I first signed up for the classes.
Guest:It was Will Ferrell, Sherry Oteri, Chris Kattan.
Guest:And then like a month or two later, they all got called up to SNL.
Guest:So that was exciting.
Guest:And then, you know, spent the long process of going through the system.
Guest:But the people, yeah, the people who I went through it with were all like...
Guest:Cheryl Hines and Nat Fax and Jim Rash, Maya Rudolph, Oscar Nunez.
Guest:Wow.
Guest:Just a bunch of people of, you know.
Marc:They were starting out with you at the Groundlings.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's exciting.
Guest:Yeah, it was.
Marc:And you had no idea anybody was going to be.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like the fact that the delivery, or what's the word I want?
Marc:The success rate of people placing themselves in show business.
Marc:I mean, just the fact that that was your crew.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's pretty phenomenal.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, there's a lot of people whose names you don't remember, I'm sure.
Guest:Yeah, but I mean, it is pretty, it's really cool to look back on all these people.
Guest:And they had such an effect on the stuff that I did.
Guest:And I'm sure that in the same way that they affected my stuff, I probably did theirs.
Guest:So there's such a huge part of this whole experience for me.
Marc:So going through this thing, through the Groundlings, and sort of learning through sketch, because I came up as a stand-up.
Marc:You never did any stand-up?
Marc:When did you start?
Marc:Doing stand-up?
Marc:And you lived in New York, right?
Marc:No, I've lived in a lot of places.
Marc:I started after college.
Marc:I was out here for a year.
Marc:Then I went back to Boston and started in Boston.
Marc:I started working professionally in Boston.
Marc:I went to New York.
Marc:And then I left New York and went to San Francisco for a couple of years.
Marc:And then I went back to New York with a job.
Marc:So I lived in several cities doing it, but it was all I did.
Marc:I was never a sketch person.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You never did stand up.
Guest:I tried it three times.
Guest:I did a couple of open mics and,
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then- Before you did Groundlings?
Guest:Kind of as I was going through the system, but once I made it to the Groundlings stage, it was clear that the standup, I was not good at it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then I did a couple years later, I did some, like I did Largo once with my buddy Mike Schwartz.
Marc:Mark Largo when it was on Fairfax?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Uh huh.
Guest:And, and, uh, Mike Schwartz, who's this awesome writer and really funny comedian.
Guest:He, uh, had, was it, I think it was Lisa Langang.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Had, he had a slot that she had given him.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So, so he said, do I want to do something with him?
Guest:And we did, we did something that was way more sketch like than, than, uh, than standup.
Guest:So, so, uh, but, but yeah, that was like the only other time I did it.
Marc:So going through the sketch process, though, it seems to me that what you stand to find, like, were you able, in working with all these other people, you know, doing improv and sketches, what did you figure out?
Marc:I mean, what do you think is your, what's your type?
Marc:Like, if we're going to, like, talk, like, Comedia Della Arte or two, like, I mean, I've seen your work, but who do you work best off of?
Marc:What do you think is your strong suit comically, comedically?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:I would say I'm patient and willing to wait.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And will...
Guest:I would say I'm a risk taker.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Do you know there's something inside you that you can turn on to be funny?
Guest:Like I know that sometimes- No, I'm a weird combination of, I have a real sense of belief in myself at the very core and then tons of insecurities that cover it up.
Guest:So I will- That's interesting.
Guest:And sometimes those insecurities are like just – there are layers and layers and layers, and sometimes there are just a few little – I mean, usually there are – very rarely is there nothing but belief.
Marc:But there's something pushing them all through.
Guest:But every once in a while that happens.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But it's – but I don't know.
Guest:I'll just –
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I guess the main thing that I would say is that I will stick to my guns on stuff.
Guest:If I believe in it, I'll stick to my guns.
Marc:Are you more comfortable in a character?
Guest:That was what made this Nebraska thing interesting is that, yeah, absolutely.
Guest:That's why stand-up was hard because when you're doing stand-up, if people don't like it, they're not liking you.
Guest:If you're like at the Groundlings, you can chalk it up to the character.
Guest:Oh, they didn't like that character, but I could do a different character.
Guest:So it was...
Guest:Yeah, it was, it was, uh, that was a little crutch, you know, you throw a mustache on and all of a sudden you're sure you're, if you're not funny, it's the mustache.
Guest:That's not funny.
Marc:It absorbs every right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:If I had just taken that thing off, figured out, you know, not done that one thing over and over again, it would have been fine.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But it's not really you.
Guest:So Nebraska was so weird because it was, I mean, it's absolutely a character, but it's essentially close to who I am.
Guest:I mean, as we've discussed, so you feel really, really, really vulnerable.
Marc:Right.
Marc:I felt that.
Marc:I feel it now.
Marc:But it's great that...
Marc:from all the stage work and from SNL and everything else, but the confidence that you're talking about, I think it seems just from doing what little work I've done in acting is that being really present and having that thing that you say you have at the core, which is some sort of confidence or belief in yourself, if you can be present
Marc:And that's 90% of it.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:You can be emotionally present for what's expected in that moment for a scene or for... That's a rare thing.
Guest:Absolutely right.
Guest:That's... I mean, that's... And that's...
Guest:It sounds so easy when you say it like that.
Guest:It's like, of course.
Guest:It's not.
Guest:It's weird.
Guest:Some people can't do it.
Guest:And Bruce would always say that.
Guest:Bruce Dern would say that the whole time.
Guest:Like, just be in the moment.
Guest:And it's like, yeah, of course.
Guest:I know, I know, Bruce.
Guest:And it just seemed like kind of... Why was he saying that?
Marc:Were you going like, I'm not doing a good job.
Marc:How come I...
Marc:No, no, no.
Guest:It was just he is wonderful and just tells the best stories.
Guest:And he really talks all the time.
Guest:He's either telling a story or giving advice.
Guest:He's wonderful and was really good to me.
Guest:But then in the course of talking, he would either be...
Guest:He would never be lecturing.
Guest:It would always be either in the form of a compliment.
Guest:I thought you did that scene very well.
Guest:You're doing great.
Guest:You're really in the moment.
Guest:It felt very true.
Guest:But yeah, so constantly he would always be talking about this truth of the scene and being in the moment.
Guest:And it's and it really in this very much registered what he was talking about at the more and more I went along the Nebraska journey.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So let's go back to that.
Marc:So, OK, so you turn in your tape.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:To to your agent who sends it on to Alexander.
Marc:Yep.
Marc:And then what happens?
Guest:Well, I didn't expect anything to happen, so I just almost immediately forgot about it.
Guest:I sent it off.
Marc:Because it kind of happens all the time, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And if it was a comedy movie, I might have checked in on it.
Guest:Right, but you thought it was a long shot.
Guest:And said, hey, did anything ever happen?
Guest:Yeah, I just thought there was no way I would ever get this...
Guest:So I felt good, like, okay, now my agent will get off my back to submit this tape, and now I can just do whatever.
Guest:And then four and a half months went by, and then all of a sudden I went to Jamaica.
Guest:On vacation?
Guest:On vacation, there in Jamaica, drinking planter's punches.
Guest:I did get high once, and then I had to stop because I'm just a bad pot smoker.
Guest:I just am not good at it.
Guest:What happened?
Guest:Oh, well, I went, there was this- Was reggae involved?
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:It was too much.
Guest:It was too much Jamaica.
Guest:It was good.
Guest:The planter's punches were enough for me.
Marc:So you drank, so you drank alcohol and then weed, and then you just got to-
Guest:And then I came back to America and landed, and I had all these missed calls from my agents saying, like, where are you?
Guest:Alexander Payne read your, or saw your submission and wants you to come in in person.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was the most exciting thing.
Marc:Out of nowhere then at that point, because you're not even thinking about it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And, yeah, certainly there was...
Guest:Yeah, I when I submitted the tape, I thought, oh, that's I don't know.
Marc:Yeah, that's all right about it.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But then when you do it, you know, I wasn't waiting for it.
Guest:And then when you don't hear anything for a couple of weeks, then then it's just.
Guest:Yeah, didn't happen.
Guest:Yeah, didn't happen.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then all of a sudden to get this call, it was out of nowhere.
Guest:It was so exciting and then terrifying because then I had to actually go in and do it in person.
Guest:And then went in probably like a month and a half later.
Guest:It felt like forever because I was... I was ruining that situation.
Guest:I'm not very used to auditioning because I was a writer for so long that I wouldn't... When all my friends at the Groundlings would be going in on auditionings and thickening their skins, I had rarely done that.
Guest:So the one audition I had really done was...
Guest:was SNL.
Marc:But so wait, so you went to Groundlings and all those other people immediately went into performing and you went into writing.
Guest:Well, I was doing Groundlings shows, but I got a job on the Jenny McCarthy sketch show for MTV, and then I got a job on Letterman.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then a bunch of sitcoms, Army Show, Action, Third Rock from the Sun.
Marc:You were with Ron Zimmerman on Action?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Marc:wow yeah what was that like it was i mean what an experience that that it was uh what is the mythology around that show like what got out of control about that i don't even remember anymore i i met ron there was a period there where after action but it was a sort of like uh it was sort of mythologized as like this was it man this was the the real deal about show business and something went off the fucking tracks right
Guest:Well, it was Chris Thompson is an amazing writer, and he wrote the pilot.
Guest:And then we all came together.
Guest:He assembled this staff, and Ron was part of the staff, and Don Rio, who's the best.
Guest:Don Rio, he is just this legendary showrunner.
Guest:And he came in.
Guest:He had all these great stories about...
Guest:writing for Jackie Gleason and it just, I cannot say enough about this guy.
Guest:He's wonderful.
Guest:Um, and then a bunch of other, uh, uh, younger writers, uh, Jesser and Silverstein were there.
Guest:I don't know if you know them that, uh, uh, the hamburger brothers, uh, Jimmy Valley.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He's Jimmy Valley on everything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He was such a delightful person.
Guest:Uh, God, I'm, I know I'm forgetting people, but I'm,
Guest:Anyway, it was just a great show where you could write scripts with swear words and adult content.
Guest:It was on Fox and you're going to beep everything out.
Guest:So you could just... It was as if you were writing an HBO show.
Guest:And then, of course, then you would come in and you would hear, oh, you can't do this, you can't do that, and certain...
Guest:certain things I understand it and then there were other little things some actors who wanted to change their well I don't want to name names but we had to change some story lines around and it just little by little by little but it was just an amazing experience I learned a lot I was probably 29
Guest:I had given up on acting.
Guest:I would just have an outlet at the Groundlings.
Guest:I would do Groundlings shows.
Guest:And you were fine.
Guest:You were working.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I loved writing.
Guest:It was great.
Guest:So the SNL thing was just as unexpected as this Nebraska thing.
Guest:I was doing a Groundlings show one night, and all of a sudden there's a whisper that I heard, Oh, Lorne Michaels is in the audience.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:And...
Guest:I was under contract at 70 show and we had just found out we got picked up for, for two years.
Guest:So you were in, yeah, I, I, I, I had a great show that night.
Guest:Cause I, there was no way I could do SNL.
Guest:Even if Lauren liked me.
Guest:So all these people are, you know, probably nervous about their show.
Guest:And I, I, I was loose as a goose.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I had a good show that night, and then he asked me to audition, and I hadn't even thought that that would ever be something that I could do.
Guest:And then Carsey Werner was...
Guest:I wasn't even going to go.
Guest:The production company of the 70s show?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, Carsey Werner and Mark Brazil, they all said, oh, you got to go auditioning.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I was hoping, I wanted them to say, oh, no, you can't go auditioning because I was terrified of it.
Guest:Anyway, so they finally, I finally just thought, okay, I got to go auditioning.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And how was that?
Guest:It was as terrifying as I thought.
Guest:Did you have a meeting with him first?
Guest:I didn't.
Guest:I did meet with him afterwards.
Guest:So you auditioned in the studio?
Guest:Auditioned in the studio.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:What'd you do?
Guest:I did this character, Tim Calhoun.
Guest:yeah uh who i did on the show a couple times once i got on it and then uh a speed reader uh that i also did on the show and uh this prison guard yeah uh i did a michael mcdonald impersonation uh which nobody does michael mcdonald so that was really the doobie brothers guy yeah
Guest:No, that's like everybody's impression.
Guest:That's better than mine.
Guest:And then I did Martin Sheen, and I don't do a good Martin Sheen.
Guest:I just don't do impersonations.
Guest:And then I did this sketch I used to do at the Groundlings.
Guest:There was a song at the end of the sketch where it's about this gold man who...
Guest:panhandles and basically it's the the guy dressed all in gold and and if you give a dollar or something they'll do the robotic movement and a a robber comes and takes his uh i hate those guys the guys that stand still yeah yeah yeah so so a robber comes takes all his money and then he he is very sad and then somebody uh uh a little kid and the dad said
Guest:Why is this gold man so sad?
Guest:Well, I don't know, but if you give him a dollar, maybe he'll tell you.
Guest:And if you give him $2, maybe he'll tell you in song.
Guest:So the kid puts $2 in, and I sing this really uplifting song about the tough life of a gold man.
Guest:And then at the end, you find out, well, it's because I got a little secret.
Guest:I saw cock for my face pain.
Guest:I saw cock for my face pain.
Guest:And then the rest of the song is just the words cock and face paint basically.
Guest:That's a cock from my face paint.
Guest:Cock, face paint.
Guest:Cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, cock, face paint.
Guest:And it's just like cock, cock, face paint, face paint, cock, cock, cock.
Guest:It's just like probably 250 times saying the word cock.
Guest:And I did that at SNL as the final thing.
Guest:And then I walked out and Lorne was right there.
Guest:And he said, oh, thank you for coming.
Guest:And I said, I'm sorry about all the cocks.
Guest:I didn't know what else to say.
Guest:I was just like, and then that was it.
Guest:And then I found out I got the job.
Marc:I'm sorry about all the cocks.
Guest:Sorry about all the cocks.
Marc:Oh, that's good.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Nothing.
Marc:You got nothing?
Marc:Not a smile?
Guest:I don't remember.
Guest:It was such a daze.
Guest:And it's dark in the room too.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think he just, he's seen it all.
Guest:So like, I think he probably just nodded.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Yeah.
Marc:He's wonderful.
Marc:Wait, so what... So wait, so you do the meeting with him.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what was the meeting like?
Marc:Was he nice?
Marc:What did he say to you?
Marc:Well, you're going to put on... Do you mind wearing dresses and change your hair?
Guest:You know, I don't remember.
Guest:I don't remember what the meeting was.
Guest:It definitely was not, you got the job.
Guest:It was just... Or maybe it was like sometimes... Sometimes...
Guest:I think it was like, could you see yourself living here?
Guest:Right.
Guest:But to me, I'm... So I think he was kind of alluding to the fact that I was going to possibly be hired.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But to me, it's unless you say, you have the job, you are hired.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You could say...
Guest:hey, I might hire you, and I'm taking out the word might, you'd have to, that wouldn't.
Guest:It doesn't work with you?
Marc:You'd just have to say, I am offering you a job.
Marc:So you didn't even know.
Marc:After your meeting with him, you had no idea?
Marc:I had no idea.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And I found out, I think, the next day.
Marc:From someone else?
Marc:From, yes.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Marcy or somebody?
Guest:Or somebody on the cast?
Guest:I forget.
Guest:Somebody called my agent.
Guest:Nobody calls you directly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And that's everywhere, you know.
Guest:Actually, Alexander called me.
Guest:He called me when I got the Nebraska job.
Guest:But it's usually you hear from your agent, I think.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So, okay.
Marc:So the point being is that you had no idea really how to audition because it was not your thing.
Marc:You weren't used to taking the hits.
Marc:So you're freaking out and you got to go read for Alexander.
Guest:yeah and who was in that room just alexander and john jackson his casting director no bruce no bruce so you do that and then what happens how'd that go uh you know it was it was fine i felt like i felt very nervous i felt like i could have done it a little better yeah um but i but afterwards he was very complimentary uh and and
Guest:that was really exciting because I still thought, oh, that's, this is something I'll never forget that when Alexander Payne told me he thought I was a good actor and that was, that's just something you're, you know, I was going to take that.
Guest:I just thought, oh, that's it.
Guest:That is, that is my prize here.
Guest:I'm not going to get the part, but that's.
Marc:And he said that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He said, he, he,
Guest:Yeah, he said something like that, and it was really, really exciting.
Guest:And we talked for a while and got along very well.
Guest:He's very easy to talk to.
Guest:John Jackson's also incredibly nice, so that was a really wonderful experience.
Guest:And then I...
Guest:But I just didn't know, oh, is that what he says to everyone?
Guest:Sure.
Guest:He's a gentleman and a nice person, so maybe he just, you know, it's hard to audition and put yourself out there.
Guest:So I feel like, you know, I would probably say that to every person that auditioned, even if they were horrible.
Guest:You were great.
Guest:You did a great job.
Marc:Sure, of course.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I didn't know.
Guest:And then like a month later, I found out I got the part, and it was great.
Guest:without reading with Bruce at all right I didn't I met Bruce about a month later at a table read no we just we went and had a steak dinner Bruce and Alexander and I good steak the only time I've ever been there I am a order fish at a steak place guy
Marc:Okay, so you order fish.
Guest:Not all the time, but I'll usually have a bite of somebody's steak and go, why didn't I order this steak?
Marc:It was good.
Marc:Yeah, and then beat yourself up for it?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So what happened at that dinner?
Marc:Were you getting to know Bruce?
Marc:What was the idea?
Marc:Oh, it was so fun.
Guest:But a little intimidating at the same time because Alexander and Bruce have this really wonderful shared knowledge of old movies and even very peripheral actors who are in those movies.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:oh you remember this person who came in and said this line and i i i i have such a bad memory that i will forget sometimes the the endings of movies that i have seen uh-huh the day before uh-huh um like winner's bone i saw i saw winner's bone really liked the movie with jennifer what's her name with jennifer lawrence yeah
Guest:loved the movie and the next day i couldn't remember how it ended yeah and that is not i'm not slagging that that's happened in a bunch of movies that's just the one i can remember for sure i remember the next day going like geez how how did that end i can't remember and i don't remember i don't remember either and and i loved that movie that's it i loved it hillbillies and speed involved yeah right yeah
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:She's wonderful.
Guest:I have nothing but compliments, but I just, it's more, it's weird.
Marc:I got confused.
Marc:Like I picture in winter's bone and it's confused with the, with the hunger games now.
Marc:Oh, like, you know, she's doing something with a bow.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you get the movie, you're talking to Bruce.
Marc:Did you feel like you're being tested though, in some way to, to get along with Bruce or not at all.
Guest:And in a lot of ways it's, it felt looking back.
Guest:It's like, Oh, that's the, well, that's not true because in, in the movie he's, Bruce is incredibly silent.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Um,
Guest:But generally, that was my place of just kind of being respectful and sitting there.
Guest:So it was very fun because I realized, oh, what an exciting experience this is to get to be working with this director I have so much respect for, this legendary actor who's filled with all these great stories.
Guest:But there was a little bit of nervousness in terms of like...
Guest:what what will am i how am i what is my communication going to be like with each of these guys like i can't communicate on this level i don't know i don't have that knowledge of old film that they do and i just had to trust like i'll find something to some way to communicate with them and obviously i you know did you find it
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:I mean, Bruce is like he's like family now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's been so much fun.
Guest:And, you know, Alexander, he's he's busy working the whole time.
Guest:So it's so Bruce, I'm stuck in a car with him hours and hours and hours every day.
Guest:So we got to know each other incredibly well.
Guest:And Alexander, it's been really fun because, you know, since making the movie, we've gotten to hang out a lot.
Guest:And it's really fun.
Guest:Like, I went to Omaha.
Guest:He's from there, right?
Guest:He's from, yeah.
Guest:He still lives for, like, half the year in Omaha.
Guest:And so I went, there was a roast of Alexander in Omaha.
Guest:And he invited me to be one of the speakers, which was a huge honor.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then he invited me to stay with him also.
Guest:So we had this wonderful four or five day period where we're hanging out every day.
Guest:And it was really fun to get to know him in the way that I felt like I had gotten to know Bruce.
Guest:But, you know, Alexander, he's got, you know, those directors, they're just calling all the shots.
Guest:So he's, you know, there's very little downtime where you get to,
Guest:Right, oh, during the movie, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Hanging around in the same way that two actors between takes.
Marc:Right, yeah, sitting in a trailer, running lines, or just like waiting, a lot of waiting.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right, so, okay, so you shoot this movie and you spend a lot of time in Nebraska, and the woman who plays your mother is spectacular.
Marc:June Squibb.
Marc:Holy shit.
Guest:Yeah, she's great.
Guest:You know, she's Jack Nicholson's wife in About Schmidt.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Marc:I didn't realize that until this morning.
Guest:Yeah, and she's amazing because she's so different in that movie from that she is in this movie.
Guest:That scene in the graveyard is fucking great.
Marc:That's the very first thing she did, too.
Marc:I don't want to spoil it for anybody, but that's spectacular.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So you go to Cannes.
Marc:So this whole world, I mean, you did the MacGruber film, but that was specific.
Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:I mean, you know, that's, you know, your peers all do those kind of movies, you know, and you knew what to expect from them.
Marc:It's an odd movie.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I mean, we are super proud of that movie.
Guest:We love, it turned out exactly how we wanted it to, which sounds crazy if you've seen it.
Guest:You go, that's what you wanted it to turn out into?
Guest:But yeah, it's hard when you're proud of something and a lot of people don't see it because then you have to really go to your- What was the primary problem with it?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:From other people's point of view?
Marc:I don't know.
Guest:I mean, definitely it's not for everybody.
Guest:We didn't make it for everybody.
Guest:We made it for ourselves.
Guest:Who's we?
Guest:If we stick to our guns, Jorma Taccone, who wrote it with John Solomon, Jorma Taccone, and me.
Guest:We all wrote it together.
Guest:Jorma directed it.
Guest:And John is a great director in his own right, so he also was this invaluable directing sidecar.
Guest:Do you want to direct?
No.
Guest:Yes and no.
Guest:I mean, at a certain point, if you asked that a long time ago, I would have said, oh, for sure, it's very important.
Guest:But I've also, I used to be a huge control freak, and now I've realized that as long as I'm working with somebody that I trust, when you trust somebody, I'm able to trust now.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And before it was like, oh, I can't, I can't, if you want it done right, you got to do it yourself.
Marc:Where'd that control freak?
Guest:Alexander Payne knows how to do it.
Marc:Yeah, right, sure.
Guest:So I don't have to, I can, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, you learn to work with others and you learn to, you know, so yeah, I mean, trust someone else's vision, especially if you're someone with a vision.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:Where's the control freak thing come from?
Marc:Have you ever tracked it?
Marc:I mean, was there chaos somewhere back there?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:There must be something.
Marc:Your dad wasn't nuts.
Marc:Your mom wasn't nuts.
Guest:Nobody was nuts.
Guest:Nobody was nuts.
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:I don't know.
Marc:I think maybe it just comes from a general anxiety.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you go to Cannes.
Marc:What was that like?
Marc:Oh, it was awesome.
Guest:It was scary.
Guest:It scared me also.
Guest:I'm a little bit of a fish out of water in those situations.
Guest:And I'm not a fancy dresser, so I... Did you have to buy some stuff?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:I am a... Because, I mean, nighttime stuff, you're just wearing suits.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Tuxedos are required in some things.
Guest:That's easy.
Guest:Okay, fine.
Guest:But it's the daytime stuff where people would go, oh, it's casual.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:My level of casual is way different than the European film festival casual.
Marc:Than France casual?
Guest:Yeah, when they say casual, they're like, you know, linen suits.
Guest:You don't need pocket squares in my type of casual.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So my friend Minty, this wonderful woman who is a great fashion designer herself, took me out and brought me around to all these different places and got a bunch of Paul Smith suits.
Guest:And she had to explain to me that don't worry about the wrinkles and the suits.
Guest:And that was all stuff that really freaked me out.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So much so that I remembered going, putting on the suit, and we had to go do these photo calls.
Guest:And I didn't even want to lean down and tie my shoelace because I didn't want the pants to prematurely wrinkle because I didn't trust the fact that you were supposed to be okay with the wrinkles.
Marc:On the linen.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:The wrinkles.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Couldn't handle it.
Guest:I just, and I tried to, I walked a little more stiff-legged than I would have.
Guest:And then once all the photo stuff happened, then I moved.
Guest:You let it wrinkle?
Guest:Yeah, I let it wrinkle.
Marc:But up to that point, I think, see, the thing is fucking about this OCD stuff.
Yeah.
Marc:is I think it's a way to ground ourselves.
Marc:Because if you think about ritual in general, it's a way to feel like you have control of something.
Marc:Like I know, in my mind, so you're fish out of water.
Marc:It's a new experience.
Marc:You got a lot going on that you've never had to deal with before.
Marc:I mean, what would you rather think about?
Marc:How overwhelming that is or whether you're going to wrinkle your pants?
Guest:Yeah, I never thought about it like that, but that is something to that for sure.
Marc:It's like, you know, it keeps it fucking simple.
Marc:It keeps you grounded.
Marc:I mean, because if you're like a guy like me, where the possibility for anxiety, if I don't have that stuff, like if I can't get that one thing, like with all the stuff you're going through, you know, it's probably a fucking gift.
Marc:That you're not going like, oh, my God.
Marc:You're just going like, oh, just walk so you don't wrinkle your pants.
Marc:You're absolutely right.
Guest:I never you've you've just helped unlock a little a little piece of this.
Guest:I will also say that when you brought that up, it made me realize that every once in a while I will go very big picture on stuff.
Guest:I mean, like, you know, ultimate big picture is realizing you're at some point going to die.
Guest:What does it matter anyway?
Guest:You know, what is this?
Marc:That's the biggest picture.
Guest:Yeah, that's the biggest picture.
Guest:But slightly pulled back from that big picture, I'll go there.
Guest:What does it matter?
Guest:All I care about are really my family and friends.
Guest:That's what I really care about.
Guest:Or I have to really fuck up in a major, major way to be memorably idiotic.
Marc:Right.
Marc:It's a little easier for you to do that as a public personality, but yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But like, say I go on Letterman or something and I tell boring stories.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You know, are people going to remember?
Guest:I mean, it's got to be really, really boring for it to stand out.
Marc:You got to go on Twitter and say, all Jews must die.
Guest:That'd be a hard one to absorb.
Guest:Yeah, so I'm not going to do that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Good, good.
Guest:So you realize you find ways to cut yourself some slack.
Guest:But then I remember when my grandma died, the ultimate big picture thing.
Guest:I thought, this is going to happen to all of us.
Guest:Why do I spend one moment of my life
Guest:worrying about anything.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I should just be not worrying about anything ever.
Guest:And then I went, flew back the next day to New York to do Flight of the Conchords.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And was that, the lesson was gone that day because I was nervous about, oh, are they going to, like, did they let you, and it turned out to be a wonderful experience.
Guest:I loved doing that show.
Guest:And it's, me being crazy, it has nothing to do with them, obviously.
Guest:But I just, like,
Guest:almost immediately was nervous about everything and are they liking me am i doing this right and and just you know so so it's so i i probably went back to my little little you know pants wrinkling no i know i i i know i i it's it's it's anxiety yeah
Marc:It's dread and anxiety in your brain, but do you get locked into morbid thoughts or do you always assume that you're not doing well or you always assume that you're going to fail or that, what is it called, morbid thought syndrome where you do that, you know, sort of ruminate on the negative things that could happen?
Guest:No, I, I would say I'm, I'm God, it's, it's weird because I'll certainly have go through the morbid cycle every once in a while, but I would say I'm way more likely to think about the positives and go into a situations thinking like somehow this is going to work out.
Guest:Is it going to work out?
Guest:Um,
Guest:You know, I'm realistic about stuff.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But realistic and feel like I put in the time and effort usually to put myself in a good position to have a, you know, and still get nervous about stuff.
Marc:Sure.
Marc:But you got to think yourself through.
Marc:You got to convince yourself every time.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:And, you know, the further I go along with stuff and you get more comfortable just being in every situation.
Guest:Like this, the Nebraska situation for the last several months has been a lot of screenings and Q&As.
Guest:And it's...
Guest:at times scary to talk in front of people and now i've done it so much that now i feel much more comfortable yeah uh talking uh in front of people and and i don't know you just i've i've i feel like i'm loosening up on on myself and it's not not even just that you're comfortable doing uh getting out in front of people you just are comfortable making a mistake
Guest:Right, yeah, you're human.
Guest:Like, I think that people would tell me, oh, you're kind of OCD before, and I'd go, nah, whatever.
Guest:And just the moment that I actually said, yeah, I am, was such a, part of the burden was lifted.
Guest:Or I went to therapy once, but I hadn't gone in years, and then I went through this breakup several years ago, and I finally went to therapy for the first time, and it was like,
Guest:It wasn't even the talking to somebody about stuff.
Guest:It was the act of giving up part of myself to say like, oh yeah, I'm not, I need somebody else to help me with this.
Guest:I can't do everything myself was a freeing thing.
Marc:Yeah, no, it's great because like that whole perfection thing, your brain was sort of like, well, that other guy, he must, you know, how come he doesn't have these problems?
Marc:You start to create this landscape of everybody else.
Marc:He needs to figure it out.
Marc:And then or you get into that situation, especially with a breakup.
Marc:Where your confidence is injured on that level.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:That feeling of sort of like, why am I even trying?
Marc:I'm not, I can't do it.
Marc:Oh, yeah.
Marc:At times, sure.
Marc:Everyone does.
Marc:It's just the worst where you go on a date with somebody and like, I'm an idiot.
Marc:Like, I'm 50.
Marc:I'm going to drive home from a date and go like, oh, damn it.
Marc:I shouldn't have said that.
Marc:What is that?
Marc:What the fuck is that?
Guest:I know you think that eventually that'll go away, but it never, I keep thinking like, you know, when you grow up, you're thinking, oh, at some point, all of life's mysteries are unlocked.
Marc:It goes away when you marry and have kids at 23.
Marc:Then you're locked in.
Yeah.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Marc:I mean, that's the big difference.
Marc:The difference between us and our parents is that they weren't wandering around at 45 years old going like, I hope I can meet a girl I like.
Marc:You know, whether they liked him or not, they were in it.
Marc:You know, they had all those grown up responsibilities around kids and they, you know, they, I don't think that they were, I think our generation is a little more entitled and a little more self-involved, you know, and they just sort of like, you know, sucked it up and none of them ended up staying married.
Guest:But that's the thing is you look at these people and you have a tendency and not everybody because there are certainly people you go, oh, I'm so happy I'm not that person.
Guest:But the people usually that you look at and you go, oh, I admire this person.
Guest:Look at how normal they are or whatever.
Guest:They got their shit.
Guest:And the couples that you admire so much, then they get divorced.
Guest:And you go, oh, God, what happened?
Guest:And so it's, you know, I guess the main thing is just like, you know, because it's just, you know, learning like to be happy with yourself, which I'm still learning to be.
Marc:Don't make up lives for everyone else.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Like, you know, most of what you think about other people or most of what you believe is just...
Marc:garbage you're making up you're idealizing everybody it's this fantasy life that of course look how happy they are he's got his own plane and he's crying in it because they're always smiling whenever they see me yeah exactly well you're doing great and I hope the movie fares well in the awards season thank you I'm so happy you liked it no it was great and it was great talking to you yeah good talking to you music music music music music
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's our show.
Marc:Great guy.
Marc:You know, it was warm.
Marc:I felt warm.
Marc:I highly recommend that movie, by the way.
Marc:And I'll recommend other movies if it means anything to you.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Check in.
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Marc:The Archive.
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Marc:You can pick up my book, Attempting Normal, in any format.
Marc:You can get it over there.
Marc:Put it on your Kindle.
Marc:Get the book itself.
Marc:Paperback's coming out soon.
Marc:I've got to go memorize some lines.
Marc:I've got a big scene today with Sally Kellerman.
Marc:He's playing my mother.
Marc:I enjoy talking to you people.
Marc:I'm glad you're hanging out.
Marc:And...
Marc:Deaf Black Cat is around.
Marc:He's around a lot now.
Marc:It's weird when you give a cat chicken, they hang out.
Marc:Monkey and La Fonda are well.
Marc:They're aging.
Marc:Guess we're all getting old together.
Marc:Gonna try to keep that a happy event.
Marc:Living alone and aging slowly with two cats.
Marc:Gonna keep that on the plus side.
Marc:Let's keep the tone around that in the positive column.
Marc:Boomer lives!