Episode 453 - Allan Havey

Episode 453 • Released December 17, 2013 • Speakers detected

00:00:00Guest:Lock the gates!

00:00:09Marc:Alright folks, let's do this.

00:00:10Marc:How are you what the fuckers?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuck buddies?

00:00:12Marc:What the fuckineers?

00:00:13Marc:What the fucknicks?

00:00:14Marc:What the fuckinesians?

00:00:16Marc:How are you?

00:00:17Marc:How is everyone?

00:00:18Marc:This is Mark Maron.

00:00:19Marc:This is my show, WTF.

00:00:20Marc:Thank you for joining me.

00:00:22Marc:I'm in my garage, sweating here at the Cat Ranch.

00:00:25Marc:On lunch break from shooting the second season of Maron on IFC.

00:00:29Marc:Scrambled back here to the house to get this done.

00:00:32Marc:I'm sick.

00:00:33Marc:I'm under the weather.

00:00:35Marc:But I'm okay.

00:00:36Marc:Thanks for asking.

00:00:37Marc:You know, I've got my problems, but let's try to stay positive.

00:00:41Marc:Can we do that?

00:00:42Marc:Can we just stay positive for a few minutes?

00:00:44Marc:What is going on?

00:00:45Marc:What is going on?

00:00:46Marc:Alan Havy is on the show.

00:00:47Marc:Alan Havy is a comedian, a New York comedian, who is always there.

00:00:52Marc:He's been out here for years, but when I was coming up, he was around.

00:00:56Marc:Pretty big influence on a lot of people that you know and love, like the Attels and the John Stewards of the world, and always had an edge to them.

00:01:03Marc:Yeah.

00:01:03Marc:Hell of a comic, one of the great club comics.

00:01:06Marc:He also is an actor as well, and he was on the last season of Mad Men.

00:01:11Marc:I think he was the head of the other advertising agency gunning for the Chevy account.

00:01:16Marc:But Havy's a real deal, man.

00:01:18Marc:He's the real deal, and it was great to get to talk to him.

00:01:21Marc:And ironically, it's not ironic.

00:01:23Marc:That's not a good use of the word.

00:01:24Marc:And coincidentally, a mistake people frequently make between the two,

00:01:29Marc:Brian Koppelman, the writer, director, producer, wrote the movie Rounders, wrote the movie Ocean 13, produced some movies, Solitary Man, he wrote and directed.

00:01:40Marc:But the first time I met Brian Koppelman was actually with Alan Havy, and Brian Koppelman just wrote the sweetest piece.

00:01:48Marc:about my interview with Jim Brewer for Grantland.

00:01:52Marc:If you want to go find that, it's on the Grantland blogs.

00:01:56Marc:But what a nice piece, and he's a big fan of the show, and I'm a fan of his work, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness of that piece.

00:02:04Marc:Because I've got to be honest with you, sometimes I don't know what I'm doing.

00:02:08Marc:And sometimes when it's put into context by a guy that appreciates what I do, it means a lot to me.

00:02:14Marc:It means a lot to my producer as well.

00:02:16Marc:And, you know, we just thought it was a very thoughtful piece.

00:02:19Marc:And, you know, we loved it.

00:02:20Marc:And it made me think about me in a different way.

00:02:24Marc:In a good way.

00:02:26Marc:Which is certainly different.

00:02:27Marc:But go check that out.

00:02:29Marc:It was a sweet piece.

00:02:30Marc:So what's going on, man?

00:02:32Marc:Oh, fucking hell.

00:02:33Marc:I got this whatever it is.

00:02:36Marc:Whatever it is, I got it on Friday.

00:02:38Marc:We did a 13 page day.

00:02:39Marc:And I know that doesn't mean a lot to many of you.

00:02:42Marc:And I'm not even sure what it meant anything to me after last year.

00:02:45Marc:But, you know, when you're on a shooting schedule, we're we're doing an episode of Marin, one episode every three days, which is crazy.

00:02:52Marc:We're not in a studio.

00:02:53Marc:We're out in the world.

00:02:54Marc:We're shooting.

00:02:55Marc:And it's a hell of a schedule.

00:02:57Marc:So these are 12 to 13-hour days, and an eight- or nine-page day is a big day.

00:03:02Marc:We did 13 pages last week.

00:03:05Marc:I did lose my shit towards the end of the day.

00:03:07Marc:I tried to keep it together.

00:03:08Marc:I'm not a prima donna, but there are moments where everything just collapses, that the empire that I built up in my brain just starts to fall apart, and I realize it's not built on strong soil.

00:03:18Marc:It doesn't have a good foundation, and just a lifetime's worth of anxiety and nervousness and anger will unleash eventually if the mood is correct.

00:03:27Marc:But it wasn't a bad outburst, and sometimes I think it's par for the course.

00:03:35Marc:It was very short, and I apologized very quickly after it, but the point I'm trying to make is I think I blew my immune system gasket, and I got ill on Friday night, and then you go through that weird, I don't know if there's a five stages of sickness process, but with me, I go right from getting sick to like, who fucking gave me this?

00:03:51Marc:Who the fuck...

00:03:52Marc:I wanted someone to take responsibility for why I was sick.

00:03:56Marc:It's very hard not to resent the person you know drug it into your house, but obviously some of you with kids who know that you get sick every other week because the kids bring it in, and you don't go to the school and track down patient zero at the elementary school who got your kid sick.

00:04:11Marc:That would be weird.

00:04:13Marc:It would be something I'd like to see, but it would be odd.

00:04:16Marc:So I had to let that go because a lot of people on set were sick and I just had to ride it out.

00:04:20Marc:But I didn't know what was going to hit me, man.

00:04:22Marc:I didn't know what was going to hit me.

00:04:25Marc:And I get into bed Sunday night and I'm like, I'm starting to feel like, oh God, that's a little bit of a chill there.

00:04:31Marc:A little bit of a chill.

00:04:33Marc:And then I'll sweat it out.

00:04:34Marc:And that's those are the weird times.

00:04:36Marc:Those are the sad times when you're alone, when there's nobody to treat you like a child when you're ill.

00:04:42Marc:And there I was sweating it out in bed, going through three shirts up every hour with the chills going, oh, God, out loud, wondering if my neighbors heard me because I was angry at being sick.

00:04:54Marc:And I just was feverish and I was laying in bed.

00:04:57Marc:And that's no time to reflect on your life in the midst of a fever where things are slightly hallucinatory.

00:05:03Marc:You're not going to have a good attitude about shit.

00:05:05Marc:Are you?

00:05:07Marc:I'm just sweating it out.

00:05:08Marc:I'm thinking like, dude, you're right.

00:05:09Marc:You're not dying.

00:05:10Marc:You know, things are going OK.

00:05:11Marc:Got a little bit of money in the bank.

00:05:12Marc:You're shooting a show.

00:05:14Marc:You know, the romantic outlook is changing.

00:05:17Marc:Things are going good.

00:05:18Marc:And then the sick brain said, yeah, what fucking difference does it make?

00:05:22Marc:Huh?

00:05:22Marc:What difference does it make?

00:05:24Marc:Look how fragile you are.

00:05:25Marc:Look at you shivering in your bed, sweating it out.

00:05:28Marc:Look at how temporary it could be.

00:05:30Marc:This could be it.

00:05:31Marc:You don't know what's going to happen.

00:05:32Marc:You get pneumonia.

00:05:33Marc:Freaky shit happens.

00:05:34Marc:Your heart could just fucking stop in the middle of this fever.

00:05:37Marc:What difference does it make?

00:05:39Marc:And I said, you're right.

00:05:40Marc:What difference does it make?

00:05:42Marc:And then some other part of me said, dude, don't talk to the sick mark.

00:05:46Marc:All right, just shut him up and ride it out.

00:05:49Marc:You're just a little sick.

00:05:50Marc:And I started thinking like, fuck, what if I, well, I don't want to go to work tomorrow.

00:05:53Marc:You have to go to work tomorrow.

00:05:54Marc:The show's got your name on it.

00:05:56Marc:You can't just stop production.

00:05:57Marc:There's a hundred people involved.

00:05:58Marc:You're just going to cry and show up sick.

00:06:01Marc:Fucking man up.

00:06:02Marc:Be a pro, you pussy.

00:06:03Marc:And I'm like, now which side of me is talking to me now?

00:06:05Marc:Because sick mark was definitely preferable to, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, Mark.

00:06:11Marc:I'm not sure I enjoyed the two of you inhabiting the same space.

00:06:14Marc:You know, what difference does it make?

00:06:16Marc:Shut up.

00:06:16Marc:Shut that guy up.

00:06:17Marc:Fucking just man up and go to work.

00:06:19Marc:All right, I got it, fellas.

00:06:20Marc:Can you shut up and let me sleep?

00:06:24Marc:So I made it to work.

00:06:25Marc:I was still a little feverish, but we knocked it out.

00:06:26Marc:I did all right.

00:06:27Marc:And then on Monday, oh, surprise.

00:06:30Marc:Looks like you're getting a cold sore along with your sickness.

00:06:33Marc:What the fuck?

00:06:34Marc:I got to be on camera?

00:06:35Marc:Going to look like I got hit in the mouth?

00:06:37Marc:All right, Valtrex, we can do this.

00:06:39Marc:Let's do this.

00:06:40Marc:Took two Valtrex.

00:06:41Marc:Nothing.

00:06:42Marc:Didn't fucking kick the cold sore's ass.

00:06:44Marc:Took another one.

00:06:45Marc:I'm saying, I got to knock this shit out.

00:06:47Marc:That wasn't working.

00:06:49Marc:Then took two more that night.

00:06:50Marc:Nailed it.

00:06:51Marc:Got rid of that motherfucker.

00:06:52Marc:Excuse my language.

00:06:54Marc:So last night I took some NyQuil and that stuff is magic.

00:06:58Marc:Why can't that be a daily thing?

00:07:01Marc:Why isn't NyQuil something that you should have every night or perhaps with breakfast once you get used to it?

00:07:06Marc:I could totally see how that could be a recreational drug.

00:07:09Marc:Anything that's made to make you go to sleep, if you don't go to sleep, it's a recreational drug.

00:07:15Marc:I used it properly.

00:07:17Marc:I got into bed because basically if you don't want to go to sleep and you just want to take the edge off, you don't do what it tells you to do.

00:07:24Marc:I'm taking NyQuil, but I'm staying up because that's the buzz I want to feel.

00:07:29Marc:That's how I want to live life.

00:07:31Marc:Awaken on NyQuil.

00:07:33Marc:So I took it and knocked me out, and it was weird, man.

00:07:37Marc:I can't remember taking NyQuil ever, really.

00:07:40Marc:But I had some weird dreams, and it's weird when you're on NyQuil because you have a dream, and then you wake up, and then you go back to sleep, and it's like a whole different channel.

00:07:48Marc:It's almost like you have to reset.

00:07:51Marc:But I had a straight-up Oedipal fucking dream.

00:07:54Marc:I don't even know why I'm sharing it with you.

00:07:56Marc:Well, because I need things to talk about.

00:08:00Marc:And this happened, and all I remember is I'm at a restaurant with my father and his wife, and I'm sitting at another table away from their table, and he's talking to his wife about how I screwed up his marriage to my mother.

00:08:15Marc:And he was basically insinuating that I slept with my mother and he was shooting me stink eye.

00:08:21Marc:My father to his current wife is shooting me stink eye suggestively saying that implying that I'd slept with my own mother.

00:08:34Marc:In the dream.

00:08:34Marc:And in the dream, all I really remember about it was that I was sitting there thinking like, yeah, that was stupid.

00:08:41Marc:I shouldn't have done that.

00:08:42Marc:That was a dumb idea.

00:08:44Marc:I shouldn't have done that because now I got problems with him.

00:08:46Marc:I don't know if this is resolvable.

00:08:49Marc:Then I woke up.

00:08:49Marc:I woke up thinking like, yep, I slept with my mom.

00:08:53Marc:Dad's, you know, justifiably angry and I don't think I'm going to be able to, I don't think I'm going to be able to make this right.

00:09:00Marc:And then I went back to sleep and I had a weird dream that my friend Brendan had decided that he was going to wear a cap and

00:09:06Marc:that he'd gotten this very nice cap, and it was a new hat, and that was who he was going to be.

00:09:12Marc:He was going to be a guy that wears a cap.

00:09:14Marc:That's my producer, Brendan McDonald, is now in my dream just a guy who's very committed to wearing a cap, and apparently me and my dad are not okay because I slept with my mom.

00:09:26Marc:Isn't the subconscious interesting?

00:09:29Marc:Isn't it?

00:09:31Marc:Put that on the label.

00:09:32Marc:I'd like to see that warning, right?

00:09:34Marc:Makes sense.

00:09:35Marc:Side effects.

00:09:36Marc:Profoundly disturbing dreams that will make you wonder what's really going on inside of you.

00:09:43Marc:That's a good side effect warning.

00:09:45Marc:Yeah, put that on there, Vicks.

00:09:47Marc:Okay?

00:09:48Marc:All right, good.

00:09:49Marc:Let's talk to Alan Havey.

00:09:56Marc:Alan Havey, who I've known forever.

00:09:59Marc:Mark Merritt.

00:10:00Marc:Yeah.

00:10:01Marc:We've known of each other, but we really don't know each other.

00:10:04Marc:No, that's right.

00:10:04Marc:That's right.

00:10:05Marc:I was always intimidated.

00:10:06Marc:I assumed you didn't like me.

00:10:07Marc:You were callous, harsh.

00:10:10Marc:I felt that.

00:10:10Marc:Every time I saw you at the cellar, I was frightened.

00:10:14Marc:I thought I was going to.

00:10:15Guest:You were frightened of me?

00:10:16Marc:A little bit.

00:10:16Guest:You know, Romano says he was intimidated by me.

00:10:19Marc:Well, you're an intimidating guy.

00:10:20Marc:You don't know if you're pissed off at me specifically.

00:10:23Marc:I take everything personally, as do a lot of comics.

00:10:26Marc:So I just assume, like, well, you know, I don't know what the fuck I did to rub that guy wrong, but it seemed like it was just life at the time, maybe.

00:10:32Marc:Or maybe it's just the way you are.

00:10:33Marc:You're not angry at Warrant?

00:10:35Guest:No, the only thing I've had a problem with you or any comedian is time.

00:10:39Guest:We're too sensitive.

00:10:41Guest:Time.

00:10:41Guest:On stage, if you go over, and I think you opened for me at Caroline's and the Punchline in a period of a year, and both times, you'd go over five, six, seven minutes, and I'd say something, and you'd look at me, hey, man, I'm doing my thing.

00:10:53Guest:I'm up there, I'm talking to the people.

00:10:55Guest:I'm in touch.

00:10:56Guest:And I was like, oh, geez, okay.

00:10:57Guest:so that was it that that that was it it's a time and i understand that and here's the thing when i'm in a comedy club yeah i'm not relaxed yeah i'm not like hey i'm hanging out with the guys after after my set i'm fine yeah beforehand i'm kind of got my set in my head and and you know i'm about to work and it's important to me so i think that has hurt me especially early in my comedy career when i really didn't i didn't have i don't drink before i go on i don't get high before i go on yeah i kind of make my set listen it's

00:11:27Guest:You know, it's important.

00:11:28Guest:Yeah.

00:11:28Guest:So that's what you see.

00:11:29Marc:Yeah.

00:11:31Marc:And also, but the time thing, that probably stuck for a while.

00:11:34Marc:That can stick for a while.

00:11:35Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:11:37Guest:There's guys who would always go over.

00:11:38Guest:I had to confront one guy.

00:11:40Guest:This was in the 80s.

00:11:41Guest:Yeah.

00:11:41Guest:And he was shocked.

00:11:42Guest:I go, dude, you've got to stop doing this.

00:11:44Guest:It's unprofessional.

00:11:45Guest:You know?

00:11:46Guest:And I'm from old school.

00:11:47Guest:You know, I grew up watching Johnny Carson.

00:11:49Guest:Right.

00:11:49Guest:My dad would wake me up when I was eight.

00:11:51Guest:Yeah.

00:11:51Guest:To watch Johnny?

00:11:52Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:11:52Guest:So I heard about show business, and I got the rules down.

00:11:55Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:11:56Guest:And all that professionalism.

00:11:57Guest:And I got into theater at a high school.

00:11:59Guest:Yeah.

00:11:59Guest:And that was, I had really good theater schools.

00:12:02Guest:Miami-Dade Community College, North Campus.

00:12:04Guest:Yeah.

00:12:05Guest:And Florida State University.

00:12:06Guest:Had really good teachers.

00:12:07Guest:There was a good professional attitude.

00:12:09Guest:I worked with good people.

00:12:11Marc:But with comedy, though, with comedy, like, you just get, I mean, it's a lack of professionalism, but then there's a sort of weird entitlement to the middle.

00:12:19Marc:That middle position is, you know.

00:12:21Marc:When someone's opening or you're headlining and there's a middle position, you can't fucking lose in that position.

00:12:27Marc:No, so why go over?

00:12:29Marc:Right.

00:12:30Marc:Just to kill even more.

00:12:31Marc:Just to put it up the headliner's ass even more.

00:12:35Guest:And you're not.

00:12:35Guest:Listen, I want to follow good feature acts.

00:12:37Guest:I followed you, Stuart, Attell.

00:12:40Guest:I had no problem.

00:12:41Guest:I followed Robin Williams over the years.

00:12:43Guest:I followed Chris Rock.

00:12:44Guest:As long as people do their time, I'm happy.

00:12:47Guest:Make the crowd happy.

00:12:48Guest:And you've got the cake spot.

00:12:50Guest:The emcee eats it up front.

00:12:52Guest:The feature act, you got what, 20, 25 minutes?

00:12:54Guest:Yeah.

00:12:54Guest:It's golden.

00:12:55Guest:It's golden.

00:12:56Marc:Yeah.

00:12:57Marc:I did it to Colin once, too, and I go over.

00:13:01Marc:I do.

00:13:03Guest:Still, you go, well, you're headlining now, right?

00:13:05Marc:Yeah, well, then you actually do too long.

00:13:07Marc:I'm one of those guys that's sort of like, you could have stopped 20 minutes ago.

00:13:10Marc:That doesn't surprise me.

00:13:12Marc:Yeah, no, I know.

00:13:12Marc:And still you do it?

00:13:14Marc:I do it a lot of times because I don't think that, if I don't feel like I'm having a great show, I'll go longer just so they can't say that I didn't try.

00:13:23Marc:Yeah, if I suck and I'm not feeling it and I only have to do 50, I'll do an hour and 20.

00:13:29Guest:No, next time, do 50.

00:13:31Guest:51 and get off.

00:13:33Guest:Because if you're in bed with a woman and she's a horrible lover, you're a horrible lover, maybe I'll stay here another hour.

00:13:40Guest:Right.

00:13:41Guest:No, it doesn't get better like that.

00:13:42Guest:You don't keep trying?

00:13:43Guest:No, 50 minutes is plenty.

00:13:45Guest:of time it is right yes okay 45 it's it's not about the length of the show it's about the the quality yeah you look at you know born to run the album yeah it's under 40 minutes i mean that's a great album yeah 39 58 something like that that's a good analogy actually yeah i think i need to tighten up my act and stop floundering so much i mean a lot of times i leave a lot of room for uh not b-sides but you know sort of you know just kind of like let's noodle for a little while let's

00:14:10Guest:And that's great.

00:14:11Guest:Yeah.

00:14:11Guest:No, I'm not saying, hey, you've got to structure your act and make sure.

00:14:14Guest:And just kind of like a free space.

00:14:16Guest:Like, hey, what's going on?

00:14:17Guest:A new thought comes into your head.

00:14:19Guest:There's somebody up front who gives you a look like, what was that about, buddy?

00:14:23Guest:You know, that kind of thing.

00:14:24Guest:Let's engage.

00:14:25Guest:But then let's get back to the time.

00:14:27Guest:To the 50.

00:14:27Guest:To Born to Run.

00:14:29Guest:get back to board to run yes yeah and there's a ballad in there yeah you know there's a there's a trumpet solo you can do a little of that there's some great there's anthems right out yeah but you can get it all done under 40 50 40 yeah if springsteen now live springsteen is a different guy but i'm just saying yeah that's why he doesn't have an opening act that's right and he can do three hours i've never been that guy

00:14:51Guest:So you didn't, where'd you grow up?

00:14:54Guest:Miami.

00:14:54Guest:You did?

00:14:55Guest:Born in St.

00:14:55Guest:Louis, raised in Miami.

00:14:57Guest:So no time in St.

00:14:57Guest:Louis?

00:14:59Guest:No, but would go back and visit family and was always connected there.

00:15:03Guest:My parents are buried there.

00:15:05Guest:I just did a benefit for Tony La Russa for the- I just sent him money.

00:15:09Guest:His ARF thing.

00:15:10Guest:Yeah.

00:15:10Guest:The pet thing, right?

00:15:11Guest:Yeah.

00:15:12Guest:I did a benefit for that.

00:15:13Guest:All my cousins came out.

00:15:14Guest:Yeah.

00:15:14Guest:Only time I performed in St.

00:15:16Guest:Louis, so that was great.

00:15:17Guest:That was in January.

00:15:18Guest:Yeah.

00:15:18Guest:I have no sense of St.

00:15:19Guest:Louis.

00:15:20Guest:Do you?

00:15:20Guest:I mean, is it a great American city?

00:15:23Guest:Yeah, and people are really nice.

00:15:25Guest:Yeah?

00:15:25Guest:Yeah, I forgot that.

00:15:26Guest:Well, I haven't been there in 21 years.

00:15:27Guest:My mom died like 21 years ago.

00:15:28Guest:I went there for the funeral.

00:15:29Guest:Right.

00:15:30Guest:And it was always around family, but this time I went back and just hung out downtown.

00:15:34Guest:People are really nice.

00:15:35Marc:i mean there's water there right there's a mississippi right and then there's the arch the arch did you ever go in that oh yeah when i was a kid once right yeah yeah that's all i needed that weird curving elevator didn't feel great to me but it was nice you can't even feel it it just that was psychological right they do shift you can't tell you're curving but in your mind i knew yeah i knew i was curving

00:15:56Guest:But the Cardinals, the baseball team, that's where I connected.

00:16:00Guest:Okay.

00:16:02Guest:Growing up in Miami, the Yankees were playing the Cardinals in 64.

00:16:06Guest:Yeah.

00:16:06Guest:And it was Roger Maris, Mickey Mantle.

00:16:08Guest:That's all you ever heard, kids in Miami.

00:16:09Guest:Right, right.

00:16:10Guest:So I go home excited, tell my dad, hey, Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris are in the World Series.

00:16:14Guest:Yeah.

00:16:14Guest:Yeah, they're playing the Cardinals.

00:16:16Guest:It's your hometown.

00:16:18Guest:I'm rooting for the Cardinals.

00:16:19Guest:Well, it's a Yankee.

00:16:21Guest:You can root for anyone you want for.

00:16:23Guest:But who's going to win?

00:16:24Guest:How are they going to beat the Yankees?

00:16:25Guest:I'm going to root for the Cardinals.

00:16:26Guest:You root for anyone you want to.

00:16:28Marc:So that was your relationship with him?

00:16:30Guest:Yeah.

00:16:30Guest:That was the way my dad handled that.

00:16:32Guest:And so I said, no, I'm going to root for the Cardinals.

00:16:34Guest:Yeah.

00:16:34Guest:And they won.

00:16:35Guest:They beat the mighty Yankees.

00:16:36Guest:Must have been you guys that did it.

00:16:37Guest:Seven games.

00:16:38Guest:Yeah.

00:16:38Guest:Yeah, that's the way I feel.

00:16:39Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:16:40Marc:You had that power.

00:16:41Marc:Yeah.

00:16:41Marc:So you grew up with your dad.

00:16:43Marc:And mom, family.

00:16:44Marc:But everyone was in Miami.

00:16:45Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:16:46Marc:Oh.

00:16:46Marc:I don't know.

00:16:47Marc:That's another place I don't understand.

00:16:49Marc:I mean, I used to hate Florida, and now I've grown to love it because it's a fucking freak show.

00:16:55Marc:It changes every 20 minutes.

00:16:56Marc:It's fucking ridiculous.

00:16:58Marc:Well, where'd you grow up?

00:16:59Guest:North Miami, simple suburbs, right by the church.

00:17:02Guest:We belonged to a parish raised Catholic a block from the school and church.

00:17:06Guest:It was like a little Mayberry for us.

00:17:08Guest:Rode our bikes in the neighborhood.

00:17:10Guest:Were you fenced in and protected from the Jews?

00:17:13Guest:Didn't really know.

00:17:14Guest:There were some Jewish kids in the neighborhood.

00:17:17Guest:We just hung out.

00:17:17Guest:with our friends from school, Catholic.

00:17:20Guest:There was a public school.

00:17:22Guest:So Jewish people were public people.

00:17:25Guest:If you weren't Catholic, I'm sorry.

00:17:27Guest:You're going to hell.

00:17:28Guest:I'm sorry.

00:17:29Guest:We feel for you.

00:17:32Guest:It's not your fault necessarily.

00:17:33Guest:You're young.

00:17:34Guest:If God lets me, I'll drop some water down.

00:17:37Guest:What can I do?

00:17:38Marc:That's a true thing though.

00:17:39Marc:Any religion that says, look, we tolerate all other religions.

00:17:42Marc:You have the freedom to believe what you want, but you're wrong.

00:17:45Guest:You're wrong if you don't believe like us.

00:17:47Guest:I couldn't believe it.

00:17:48Guest:I couldn't believe that people weren't Catholic.

00:17:50Guest:I was born in America, white, Catholic, and a male.

00:17:54Guest:Yeah.

00:17:56Guest:Come on.

00:17:56Guest:I felt so lucky.

00:17:58Guest:I felt God really loves me because he made me a white, male, American, and Catholic.

00:18:04Guest:But Catholic, you grew up with all of that?

00:18:05Marc:I mean, you believed it?

00:18:06Marc:Oh, God, yeah.

00:18:07Marc:Do you have nine brothers, sisters, 12?

00:18:08Guest:No, no.

00:18:09Guest:Four in the family.

00:18:10Guest:One older brother, two younger sisters.

00:18:12Marc:Yeah.

00:18:13Guest:I bought it all.

00:18:14Guest:Yeah?

00:18:14Guest:Yeah.

00:18:15Yeah.

00:18:15Guest:It was great.

00:18:16Guest:It was really simple.

00:18:16Guest:Is it back?

00:18:17Guest:Did it go away?

00:18:18Guest:Do you still believe?

00:18:19Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:18:19Guest:Oh, it went away.

00:18:20Guest:It went away.

00:18:21Guest:Do you remember the moment?

00:18:22Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:18:23Guest:As I look back, I remember what happened.

00:18:26Guest:As I look back at my life, I was a classic underachiever.

00:18:30Guest:Yeah.

00:18:30Guest:in uh after fourth grade and high school classic 100 you failed seventh grade squeaked by summer school didn't give but did they always say that you were smart yes yeah so i got that too so why if you know i'm smart why do i need to prove it yeah yeah that's that we know yeah and you know apparently you're smart well good

00:18:51Guest:So do I have to do this work?

00:18:53Guest:No.

00:18:53Guest:It's like sometimes as a comedian I go, come on, I'm funny.

00:18:57Guest:Yeah.

00:18:57Guest:Haven't I done enough?

00:18:58Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:18:58Guest:I've done enough sets.

00:18:59Guest:I've done enough television.

00:19:01Guest:Can I, you know, just give me a big chunk of money.

00:19:03Guest:Yeah.

00:19:04Guest:And I'll still be funny, but come on.

00:19:05Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:19:06Guest:Just give it to me.

00:19:07Guest:You can't.

00:19:07Guest:You got to go up and prove yourself every time.

00:19:09Marc:What is it?

00:19:09Marc:So what was, how's the underachiever connected to Catholicism?

00:19:12Guest:Nine years old, my dad pulls us out of school.

00:19:15Guest:My brother, my sisters, and I. Doesn't say anything.

00:19:18Guest:We get in the car.

00:19:18Guest:I go, something's wrong with mom.

00:19:20Guest:Your mom's fine, like he read her mind.

00:19:22Guest:Drives us out near the airport.

00:19:23Guest:We park.

00:19:25Guest:Air Force One pulls up.

00:19:26Guest:Out walks JFK and Jackie.

00:19:29Guest:Our father wanted us to see the president.

00:19:32Guest:It was important to him.

00:19:33Guest:so i'm on my father's shoulders yeah holy god there's first time i've seen him in color yeah you know holy my brother snuck up and and i tried to sneak up and finally i said oh man to pick me up yeah do that when you're a kid pick me up mister and i picked up and there's kennedy leaning over the fence shaking my brother's hand oh my god and it was just my god that was a monday yeah friday he was assassinated

00:19:56Guest:in dallas he went from florida to dallas yeah he was there on the 18th of 1921 22 he's killing the it was a monday to that and you remember the excitement like there's the president oh god it was like first of all he's catholic yeah he was oh god yeah god god wants a catholic president this is it man yeah come on we are the chosen people right and so when he was assassinated

00:20:20Guest:Nobody had an answer.

00:20:21Guest:Not the nuns, not the priests, not my parents, not Walter Cronkite.

00:20:26Guest:And then Oswald gets killed, and I watch The Untouchables.

00:20:29Guest:I knew something was going on.

00:20:30Guest:But, you know, that's the way God wanted it.

00:20:32Guest:So that was the first thing, like, oh, God couldn't protect the most powerful Catholic in the world.

00:20:38Guest:He's not going to give a shit about me.

00:20:40Guest:Right.

00:20:41Guest:And so the guy, and then a couple of years before that, I found out there was no Santa Claus and I kind of, that was a little weird.

00:20:48Guest:Yeah, it was already going away.

00:20:49Guest:And so that was a little weird.

00:20:51Guest:And then Kennedy, forget about it.

00:20:52Guest:And everybody cried, parents, teachers.

00:20:55Guest:So now I didn't know it then, but as I look back, oh, that's where I kind of, I saw the bullshit.

00:21:00Marc:I think everybody in the world did.

00:21:02Marc:I think everybody in the country did.

00:21:05Marc:I think that moment was this baptism in faithlessness in terms of what America is, what it means, and what can happen.

00:21:14Guest:And then the hits just kept on common.

00:21:16Guest:Yeah.

00:21:16Guest:Martin Luther King.

00:21:17Guest:One after the other.

00:21:18Guest:Robert F. Kennedy.

00:21:19Guest:But for a nine-year-old, who I really kind of bought...

00:21:24Guest:I was a good Catholic kid.

00:21:25Guest:I mean, I believed.

00:21:26Guest:I was an altar boy.

00:21:27Guest:Oh, this is a system?

00:21:29Guest:Yeah.

00:21:29Guest:Got it.

00:21:30Guest:Yeah.

00:21:30Guest:Right, you know.

00:21:31Guest:Somebody can just kill the guy.

00:21:33Guest:Yeah.

00:21:33Guest:In front of everybody.

00:21:34Guest:And God's not going to come down to, oh, protect you.

00:21:36Guest:So, you know, and we had those illustrations in school where Angel is helping us cross the street.

00:21:40Guest:Yeah.

00:21:40Guest:We all had a guardian angel.

00:21:41Marc:Where was the one in Kennedy's car?

00:21:43Guest:Yeah, it wasn't there.

00:21:44Guest:It wasn't there.

00:21:44Guest:And here was a real conflict for me.

00:21:46Guest:Yeah.

00:21:47Guest:You watch Mad Men, right?

00:21:48Guest:Yeah.

00:21:49Guest:I'm Sally's.

00:21:50Guest:I'm a year older than Sally.

00:21:51Guest:Yeah.

00:21:51Guest:During those years, right?

00:21:52Guest:Right.

00:21:53Guest:The women in Mad Men, that's the way the women dressed in church.

00:21:57Guest:Without the cleavage.

00:21:58Guest:When you were a kid, you remember.

00:21:59Guest:And you're in the show now.

00:22:00Guest:I mean, you play a part on that.

00:22:01Guest:Yeah, but here's my point.

00:22:03Guest:I want to get back to this.

00:22:04Guest:The women in Mad Men, except for all that cleavage, that's the way they dressed in church when I was a kid.

00:22:09Guest:I got so horny.

00:22:10Guest:Yeah, of course.

00:22:11Guest:And Sunday, when I got home from church, I had to whack off.

00:22:14Guest:Yeah.

00:22:15Guest:I started at six.

00:22:16Guest:So it was like I said, I'm a horrible person.

00:22:18Guest:I just came from church and I'm horny as hell.

00:22:21Guest:And I'm thinking about sex in church.

00:22:22Guest:Yeah.

00:22:23Guest:And the women were dressed in the nights.

00:22:24Guest:That's back when people dressed up.

00:22:27Guest:Right.

00:22:27Guest:You didn't go to church without a jacket.

00:22:28Guest:Yeah.

00:22:29Guest:And did you have to go back to church to confess?

00:22:33Guest:Had to wait until Saturday.

00:22:34Guest:You confessed on Saturday.

00:22:36Guest:So you had to wait a week.

00:22:37Guest:You had to sit with it for a week.

00:22:38Guest:Yeah, and I said, boy, if I get hit by a truck, I'm in hell.

00:22:41Guest:But didn't you get a few more in during the week?

00:22:43Guest:Oh, yeah, yeah.

00:22:44Guest:That way you can just group them up.

00:22:47Guest:I got to apologize for one.

00:22:49Guest:Confess to one.

00:22:50Guest:Why not seven?

00:22:51Guest:Saturday morning.

00:22:53Guest:Get about it.

00:22:53Guest:Wake up.

00:22:54Guest:Whack off.

00:22:55Guest:Come out feeling pure.

00:22:57Marc:But did that work, confession?

00:22:59Marc:I have no sense of being brought up with real religion in terms of believing in anything.

00:23:04Marc:I was a Jew, but it didn't mean much.

00:23:07Marc:But when you confessed, did you feel relief in your heart?

00:23:10Marc:Did you feel absolved?

00:23:11Guest:I felt relief in my conscience when I was a kid.

00:23:14Guest:But then as I got older and I kind of talked to, it was open confession.

00:23:18Guest:You sit down with the priest and tell him your sins.

00:23:20Guest:Oh, no booth?

00:23:21Guest:No, no booth.

00:23:22Guest:And then the priest would kind of, well, and then I remember a priest saying, I was a freshman in high school, he goes, masturbation's fine.

00:23:30Yeah.

00:23:30Guest:I was just like, oh, my God, this rock.

00:23:35Guest:Thank God he didn't say, let's do it together.

00:23:39Guest:No, no, no.

00:23:39Guest:By the way, I worked in a rectory with priests.

00:23:42Guest:I've had priests as teachers, and my life, not a scintilla of any conduct, misconduct.

00:23:51Marc:As a Catholic, though, as somebody who was brought up with it, whether your faith is lapsed or not, I imagine the church meant something to you at some time.

00:23:58Marc:Absolutely.

00:23:59Marc:What were your reactions to that, the sort of epidemic of it?

00:24:04Guest:Well, I mean, as far as the private sector goes, the public sector or everything, it's the same percentage of pedophiles.

00:24:11Guest:It's a cover-up that really bothers me.

00:24:13Guest:And the heartbreaking thing for me is a lot of priests I knew were some of the finest men shaped my life.

00:24:18Guest:And the fact that they're kind of lumped into this.

00:24:20Guest:I do a joke about priests, too.

00:24:22Guest:But it's the cover-up.

00:24:23Guest:Right.

00:24:23Guest:That's what really makes me angry.

00:24:25Guest:I do not support the Catholic Church anymore.

00:24:27Guest:Right.

00:24:28Guest:I don't go to mass anymore.

00:24:29Guest:Because of that.

00:24:30Guest:Yeah.

00:24:30Guest:I go to weddings and funerals.

00:24:32Guest:Right.

00:24:32Guest:And I'll go in and light a candle.

00:24:34Guest:I'll have a mass set for someone who's passed away because I'm still a Catholic.

00:24:37Guest:Right.

00:24:37Guest:You cannot get rid of it.

00:24:39Guest:You can't get it out?

00:24:40Guest:No.

00:24:40Guest:You can't.

00:24:41Guest:And I guess for a while I tried to.

00:24:43Guest:Yeah, you know, but no, it's still in there.

00:24:45Guest:Yeah.

00:24:46Guest:I remember my grandmother gave me a glow-in-the-dark Virgin Mary statue.

00:24:49Guest:Yeah.

00:24:50Guest:And she'd put it on my bedside.

00:24:52Guest:Yeah.

00:24:52Guest:Because he knew we were whacking off.

00:24:54Guest:And so I would wait for the phosphorescence to die before I whacked off.

00:24:59Guest:She's not looking now.

00:25:01Guest:No.

00:25:01Guest:Yeah.

00:25:03Guest:And I would always say, please, Virgin Mary, just one more time.

00:25:06Guest:Did you turn it around?

00:25:07Guest:Just one more time.

00:25:08Guest:No, no.

00:25:08Guest:I just waited for the glow to stop.

00:25:11Guest:I didn't want to put it in the drawer.

00:25:12Guest:Yeah.

00:25:12Guest:You know?

00:25:14Marc:All right.

00:25:14Marc:So you're an underachiever.

00:25:15Marc:How long did that go on for?

00:25:17Guest:Until I got out of high school.

00:25:19Guest:How'd you get into college?

00:25:21Guest:I went to community college.

00:25:22Marc:Okay.

00:25:23Guest:And talked to my guidance counselor in high school.

00:25:25Guest:What do you want to do?

00:25:26Guest:I go, well, I want to be an actor.

00:25:29Guest:I want to go to New York and get into show.

00:25:30Marc:So acting was the first thing.

00:25:31Marc:Yeah.

00:25:32Marc:Tell me about this thing about your dad waking you up.

00:25:34Marc:Was it to watch comedy or just to watch Carson?

00:25:36Marc:Carson.

00:25:37Marc:At any time or anything specific?

00:25:39Marc:It couldn't be every night.

00:25:40Guest:Well, a couple nights he did, and then I'd sneak out and stuff like that.

00:25:44Guest:But I was chosen in kindergarten to play a priest in this skit.

00:25:50Marc:I would love to see kindergarten plays.

00:25:52Marc:I mean, I just, it's got, because you've taken it seriously.

00:25:55Marc:You think you're pulling it off, right?

00:25:56Guest:Well, they brought in kindergarten, a giant tape recorder.

00:25:59Guest:This is 1960 now.

00:26:00Guest:Yeah.

00:26:01Guest:A giant tape recorder, and they brought it in, and I'm in the back.

00:26:04Guest:Yeah.

00:26:04Guest:Because I always sat in the back of the corner and go, wow, that's show business.

00:26:07Guest:Wow, there's a microphone.

00:26:09Guest:Yeah.

00:26:09Guest:Oh, my God.

00:26:10Guest:Yeah.

00:26:10Guest:And the nun said, you come up, and everyone speaks their name, and whoever speaks the loudest and clearest gets it.

00:26:17Guest:So I watched everybody.

00:26:18Guest:That was one of the last ones.

00:26:20Guest:And I, man, I just, Alan Haven.

00:26:23Guest:And so they played it back, and we listened to kids mumbling.

00:26:26Guest:And everyone looked at me.

00:26:27Guest:I go, I nailed my first audition.

00:26:29Guest:I didn't know that then.

00:26:31Guest:And so I got up in front of people, and I remember adults laughing and smiling.

00:26:35Guest:I was probably blowing my lines and the priest petted me on the head.

00:26:38Guest:They love it.

00:26:39Guest:And I'm thinking, and this is 1960.

00:26:41Guest:You were seen and not heard.

00:26:42Guest:Yeah.

00:26:43Guest:That is not just an expression.

00:26:44Guest:Right.

00:26:44Guest:Kids were just, you know, hello, how do you do?

00:26:46Guest:I'll get the hell out of here.

00:26:47Guest:Yeah.

00:26:48Guest:And I had that attention and focus.

00:26:50Guest:So that branded me.

00:26:51Guest:Yeah.

00:26:51Guest:And I always liked being funny after that.

00:26:53Guest:And your dad was in, like, what'd your dad do?

00:26:55Guest:He rented, he was in the moving business, rented cars and trucks, but he was a frustrated actor.

00:26:59Guest:He was too?

00:27:00Guest:Yeah.

00:27:01Marc:Like, did he perform ever?

00:27:02Guest:Yeah.

00:27:02Guest:He got up public speaking.

00:27:03Guest:He liked to talk.

00:27:04Guest:He liked to tell stories.

00:27:06Guest:In the Marines, he would sing, you know, when the guys got bored.

00:27:09Guest:He was a Marine.

00:27:10Guest:Yeah.

00:27:11Guest:So he grew up with that.

00:27:11Guest:World War II.

00:27:13Guest:But he wasn't, yeah, he was kind of tough that way, but he was very angry.

00:27:15Guest:I think he was frustrated.

00:27:16Guest:Yeah.

00:27:17Guest:When, right before he died, and I was already a professional comic, we're in the backyard, I go, would you have done it all over again?

00:27:23Guest:Married mom?

00:27:24Guest:Yeah.

00:27:24Guest:And he said, yeah, yeah.

00:27:26Guest:Then he said, no, no, I would have married your mom, but I would have gone to New York.

00:27:30Guest:I should have gone to New York.

00:27:32Guest:And my mother said, because I went to New York in my career, you know, I started putting a little career together.

00:27:38Guest:It made my father angry and rethink what he did.

00:27:42Guest:Was she guilting you?

00:27:44Guest:No, no.

00:27:44Guest:She just said, I'd come home.

00:27:46Guest:I go, why is he angry at me?

00:27:48Guest:I think your father's a little jealous.

00:27:50Guest:Yeah.

00:27:50Guest:I really do.

00:27:51Guest:Yeah.

00:27:53Guest:But he was very happy for me.

00:27:55Guest:He supported, brought people out.

00:27:57Guest:So there wasn't any of that.

00:27:58Guest:And he told me.

00:28:00Guest:He goes, I couldn't be more proud of you than if you were a lawyer on the Supreme Court arguing a case.

00:28:05Guest:Right.

00:28:06Guest:Just let me...

00:28:06Guest:So I love you.

00:28:08Guest:There was affection in our lives.

00:28:10Guest:It was okay to cry for a reason.

00:28:12Guest:So he wasn't one of those tough, cold guys.

00:28:14Guest:He had a pretty good heart.

00:28:17Marc:Do you remember the moment that it sunk in that you were arriving or that you were valid?

00:28:24Guest:He brought everyone from the parish out, like 23 of his friends, to see me at a club in Fort Lauderdale.

00:28:29Guest:And I went on in the middle.

00:28:31Guest:The guys let me go on in the middle because we all did the same amount of time.

00:28:34Guest:And I really had a great set.

00:28:35Marc:Which club is still there?

00:28:36Guest:Comic Strip, Lauderdale.

00:28:37Marc:Oh, when they opened that one down there briefly?

00:28:40Yeah.

00:28:40Guest:yeah oh that's sweet so you're performing for the oh yeah and then he saw me again in atlanta uh open for uh pat paulson and uh my dad he said to my mom he goes he's a professional comedian yeah he's a pro yeah so but this is right before he died yeah you know so that's sweet yeah yeah it all it all turned out really well

00:29:01Marc:So you go to community college, and that's sort of like a holding zone.

00:29:06Guest:No, no, this is heaven.

00:29:10Guest:This is a theater.

00:29:11Guest:This is what I meant to do.

00:29:12Guest:The classroom, or there was a theater there?

00:29:15Guest:It was a theater.

00:29:16Guest:Oh, it was great.

00:29:17Guest:It had a new theater.

00:29:18Guest:It was funded by the state.

00:29:20Guest:A bunch of freaks, ethnic diversity, gay, straight, freak.

00:29:25Guest:every everyone you could think of so you're out of the church out of your neighborhood out of the all cath all boy catholic white school yeah and like these are my people yeah just like i dance and that's where i flourished and i never looked back it was like yes this is the way it is yeah and you did plays plays like what buffalo bill and any get your gun sure i played a small part in arsenic and old lace yeah i directed uh like small plays i wrote a little bit i build sets i so i was in it man yeah that was mickey rooney yeah this

00:29:55Marc:is it this is show business baby it is show business it is like because i still get that i'm sure you do too like you know i just did the like yeah i don't know if people can really understand it i mean i actually felt myself get choked up just a little bit i did my first shot at panel on letterman ever you know i've been on letterman you know four times in my life and i've been doing just doing stand-up yeah four times only which is i'm happy with that yeah

00:30:18Marc:But all on the new show, right?

00:30:21Marc:Uh, right.

00:30:21Marc:Okay.

00:30:22Marc:And I know you've done it a lot of times, but like spread out, you know, I did four and in the first time you do Letterman, it's a tremendous honor.

00:30:29Marc:I mean, cause I, you know, I am a little younger than you, but I mean, I watched him and that's all I wanted, you know, is to do that.

00:30:34Marc:And especially in that Ed Sullivan theater.

00:30:36Marc:It's great.

00:30:37Yeah.

00:30:37Marc:So I just had the opportunity to panel a week and a half ago.

00:30:40Marc:It was the first time, and I felt confident about it, but I was really, I love that guy.

00:30:46Marc:But when you're backstage, the point is, no matter what you're doing, not so much in a comedy club, but a little bit, but when you're about to do Letterman, or you're backstage and you see the set and the stage guys and all the people that work.

00:30:58Marc:And the band?

00:30:58Marc:Yeah.

00:30:59Marc:You hear that band?

00:31:00Marc:And it's like, this is fucking show business.

00:31:02Marc:I don't think people really understand that moment when you're just backstage waiting to go on

00:31:06Marc:It never changes.

00:31:08Marc:It's always fucking thrilling.

00:31:09Guest:It doesn't matter if it's your school play or if you're doing a barbecue or a comedy club.

00:31:15Guest:It's all aspects of show business.

00:31:17Marc:It's our job, too, and it's sort of like I'm about to go on.

00:31:20Marc:I had no time to think.

00:31:21Marc:I got right off the elevator and Biff's like, come on, 20 seconds.

00:31:24Marc:I'm standing backstage.

00:31:26Marc:The weirdest thing is when you get out there, in your mind, when you watch it on TV, it's just a couple of guys talking, but when you're out there, it is so heightened.

00:31:35Guest:Yeah.

00:31:35Guest:It's fucking my, I can't even explain it.

00:31:37Guest:And then you have to be calm and be yourself.

00:31:40Guest:Right.

00:31:41Guest:And there's a little thing I say now, listen, you've been doing this for 30 years, just trust yourself.

00:31:46Guest:You've looked at your notes.

00:31:47Guest:Right.

00:31:48Guest:You're straight, you know, you worked out today, you got plenty of sleep last night, so just, you know, because I still get butterflies, just trust yourself.

00:31:56Guest:If someone throws a dog on stage, you'll be able to deal with it.

00:32:00Guest:You'll definitely be able to deal with it.

00:32:01Guest:You of all people could deal with a dog being thrown on stage.

00:32:04Guest:Yeah.

00:32:04Guest:But Letterman, it is heightened.

00:32:06Guest:Oh, yeah, dude.

00:32:08Guest:The first one I did back in 86, I was on fire.

00:32:10Guest:I felt like I was burning.

00:32:12Guest:The old show.

00:32:12Guest:Yeah.

00:32:13Guest:Yeah.

00:32:13Guest:And so you did stand up and you always did panel.

00:32:15Guest:Right.

00:32:16Guest:Now I've done four.

00:32:17Guest:The new one, yeah.

00:32:18Guest:I did like, I think, 10.

00:32:20Guest:Yeah.

00:32:21Guest:Total?

00:32:21Guest:Yeah, 10 total.

00:32:22Guest:And you don't do panel.

00:32:25Yeah.

00:32:25Guest:Yeah, you might sit there for a second.

00:32:27Guest:But I always write a little stuff in case the music act tanks.

00:32:29Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:30Marc:You want to be there.

00:32:33Marc:But the original show in 86, so he'd been going for a while.

00:32:37Marc:Yeah.

00:32:38Marc:That was a real goal.

00:32:40Marc:Right.

00:32:40Marc:Even more than Carson.

00:32:41Marc:Right.

00:32:41Guest:To get on Letterman.

00:32:42Marc:Because he was so cutting and great and he was the guy.

00:32:45Guest:Yeah, and it was in New York.

00:32:47Guest:It was at 30 Rock.

00:32:48Guest:Yeah, I know the studio.

00:32:49Guest:I did Conan there.

00:32:50Marc:When you first did Letterman, were you like, wow, it's not that big.

00:32:53Marc:It's a little studio.

00:32:54Guest:Well, I had worked there before for Lorne Michaels for the new show in 84.

00:32:58Guest:We worked at 8H where they did Saturday Night Live.

00:33:01Guest:The new show.

00:33:01Guest:Yeah, it was on Friday nights at 10.

00:33:03Guest:It lasted about 12 weeks.

00:33:04Guest:I kind of remember that.

00:33:06Guest:Yeah.

00:33:06Guest:What were they trying to do with that thing?

00:33:07Guest:Just replicate SNL, but in an hour.

00:33:11Guest:Right.

00:33:11Guest:No skits.

00:33:12Guest:Oh, so you knew the studio.

00:33:14Marc:When I first went there, I was like, oh my God, this is not anything I could imagine it to be.

00:33:18Guest:And you go, you know, use a bathroom and there's Tom Brokaw.

00:33:22Guest:Yeah.

00:33:22Guest:Or, you know, someone there washing their hands.

00:33:24Guest:Oh, right.

00:33:25Guest:This is, it's not just show business.

00:33:26Guest:It's news.

00:33:27Guest:It's everything.

00:33:28Marc:I saw them walk a horse through that hallway.

00:33:30Marc:Yeah.

00:33:31Marc:I think I did.

00:33:31Marc:I mean, in my memory, there was a horse involved at some point for a sketch.

00:33:34Marc:Is that possible?

00:33:35Marc:Of course it's possible.

00:33:36Marc:Yes, absolutely.

00:33:37Marc:All right.

00:33:37Marc:So you go from, you go from community college in where?

00:33:40Marc:Florida?

00:33:41Marc:Florida State.

00:33:42Marc:And then you go to Florida State?

00:33:43Marc:Yeah.

00:33:43Guest:So that was a big time?

00:33:44Guest:Doing the big plays?

00:33:45Guest:Yeah.

00:33:46Guest:Yeah.

00:33:46Guest:I mean, that was exciting.

00:33:47Guest:You know, great teachers, a great, one thing that's really, I've been blessed with

00:33:52Guest:Yeah.

00:33:53Guest:When I was in community college, college, starting stand-up, I was surrounded by really good people.

00:33:58Guest:Yeah.

00:33:58Guest:And I was lucky that way.

00:34:00Guest:Right.

00:34:01Marc:Did you do serious plays?

00:34:02Marc:Did you do the sort of like yelling and screaming and crying and sweating stuff?

00:34:06Guest:I didn't do a heavy emotional.

00:34:07Guest:I usually did character parts because like Buffalo Bill or played an Arab.

00:34:12Guest:There's a play called The Time of Your Life.

00:34:14Guest:yeah community college i played kit carson yeah and in uh florida state i played the arab in the same play so yeah those are two character parts uh i did a uh play in the boom boom room yeah no i kind of remember that play what is that right yeah that was that was a juicy part yeah and moon children he was heavy david rabe stuff oh yeah right yeah so all right so when when do you go to new york

00:34:40Guest:I go like 78, fall of 78.

00:34:43Marc:Right after you graduate college?

00:34:45Guest:About three months.

00:34:46Guest:Yeah.

00:34:46Guest:Well, I was at Florida State when the Bundy murders happened.

00:34:51Guest:Oh, my God.

00:34:52Guest:And there were a couple buildings over.

00:34:54Guest:Yeah.

00:34:55Guest:So I had bought a pound of pot.

00:34:57Yeah.

00:34:58Guest:A pound.

00:34:59Guest:A pound.

00:34:59Guest:On the street?

00:35:01Guest:No, no, from a guy I knew.

00:35:03Guest:And he said, here, you know what, just buy a pound and that way you can get high for free and just sell it to the guys at theaters.

00:35:09Guest:So I tried it once.

00:35:11Guest:And I go down the hall in my boarding room to take a shower to get ready because I'm working as a bartender at a Super Bowl party.

00:35:18Guest:Sunday, cold.

00:35:19Guest:I look out and there's three cops standing in front of my door.

00:35:23Guest:And I go...

00:35:23Guest:They go, do you live here?

00:35:25Guest:I go, yeah.

00:35:26Guest:He goes, we want to see.

00:35:28Guest:I go, I'll be right out.

00:35:29Guest:I close the door.

00:35:30Guest:I look at the window, too small to crawl out of.

00:35:33Guest:I look in the mirror and I go, dad, I've been busted for pot.

00:35:36Guest:That's it.

00:35:37Guest:So I walk down there.

00:35:38Guest:I'm shaking, not because it's cold, but thank God it was.

00:35:41Guest:And I go, is this about my car?

00:35:43Guest:No.

00:35:43Guest:We just want to know if you heard any noises last night.

00:35:46Guest:I go, no.

00:35:46Guest:No, I mean, you know, the windows were closed.

00:35:49Guest:It's freezing.

00:35:49Guest:Well, okay, that's it.

00:35:50Guest:I go, someone get raped?

00:35:51Guest:They go, we don't know.

00:35:52Guest:And they split.

00:35:53Guest:And then I found out that these coeds, like four coeds, five were murdered right down there.

00:35:59Guest:They came back and questioned me three more times because I fit the profile perfectly.

00:36:04Guest:I'd already graduated.

00:36:05Guest:I was just, I needed money.

00:36:08Guest:Yeah.

00:36:08Guest:And I was a bartender, white.

00:36:11Guest:So you thought you were a suspect?

00:36:14Marc:I was on probably a list.

00:36:15Marc:What was the span that they were all murdered in?

00:36:18Marc:One night, they were murdered.

00:36:21Marc:He murdered four people in one night?

00:36:22Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:36:23Guest:I didn't know that.

00:36:24Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:36:24Marc:Holy fuck.

00:36:25Guest:Yeah.

00:36:27Guest:I think it might have been five because he went down and murdered someone else.

00:36:29Guest:Were they together or one after the other?

00:36:30Guest:Yeah, they were in the sorority room together.

00:36:32Marc:I kind of remember.

00:36:33Guest:He snuck in with a club, did some brutal stuff.

00:36:37Marc:Holy shit.

00:36:38Guest:Yeah, he was a sick guy.

00:36:39Guest:So that was another brush with fame.

00:36:43Guest:JFK, Ted Bundy.

00:36:45Guest:It's going good.

00:36:47Guest:So I go to New York.

00:36:50Guest:I get a one-way train ticket.

00:36:52Guest:My friends threw me a little surprise going away party, and people couldn't believe I was going.

00:36:57Guest:There was a number of people.

00:36:58Guest:It's scary for people.

00:36:59Guest:You're out of your mind.

00:37:00Guest:Yeah.

00:37:01Guest:What are you doing?

00:37:01Guest:You got no plan?

00:37:02Guest:You had no plan?

00:37:03Guest:Yeah, I'm going to New York.

00:37:04Guest:Yeah.

00:37:04Guest:Well, what are you going to do?

00:37:06Guest:I'm going to get an apartment.

00:37:07Guest:Yeah.

00:37:07Guest:I'm going to find a job.

00:37:08Guest:Yeah.

00:37:09Guest:Then I'm going to audition or I'll figure it out.

00:37:11Guest:But you were going for the acting thing.

00:37:13Marc:Yeah.

00:37:13Marc:Comedy had not hit you yet.

00:37:15Marc:Broadway.

00:37:15Marc:Right.

00:37:16Guest:That was my goal.

00:37:17Guest:yeah that was that that general i'm gonna be on in i'm gonna do theater that's what i'm trained to do no comedy in your mind well i had always been funny yeah but i had a teacher at college did you ever think of being a comedian yeah so in high school right they would tell me you can't be a comedian all your life then i want to get when i'm graduating theater yeah you say you ever think of doing stand-up like i don't know it's always intimidated me i was always a wise ass in school but were you a fan though

00:37:43Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:37:44Guest:Oh, huge fan.

00:37:45Guest:Yeah.

00:37:45Guest:Alan King.

00:37:45Guest:Oh, yeah, I love comedy.

00:37:47Guest:Yeah.

00:37:47Guest:I lived in Hell's Gate.

00:37:47Guest:I would walk by the improv, you know, and not even look in.

00:37:51Guest:You know, like Liberace walking by a gay bar or something.

00:37:54Guest:Right.

00:37:54Guest:I couldn't, you know, and I knew I belonged in there.

00:37:57Guest:You felt it.

00:37:58Guest:Yeah.

00:37:58Guest:On 44th Street.

00:37:59Guest:Yeah.

00:38:00Guest:I attended a bar on 43rd Street.

00:38:02Guest:I lived on 47th Street.

00:38:04Guest:Between 8th and 9th?

00:38:05Guest:On 9th Avenue.

00:38:06Guest:Yeah.

00:38:06Guest:And there was the improv right there in the corner.

00:38:09Marc:And this was what, 70?

00:38:09Guest:79, 80, 81.

00:38:11Guest:Yeah.

00:38:12Guest:So it was still in pretty good shape, kind of.

00:38:14Marc:I mean, Bud was gone, but Silver was.

00:38:16Guest:Silver was there.

00:38:17Guest:That was the best yes I've ever heard.

00:38:20Guest:Yeah.

00:38:20Guest:When Silver said, welcome to the club.

00:38:21Guest:We want you to be part of our family.

00:38:23Guest:Little did I know she wasn't exaggerating.

00:38:25Guest:Yeah.

00:38:26Guest:Because comedy is a family.

00:38:27Marc:Yeah, it is.

00:38:28Marc:So when did that happen, though?

00:38:28Marc:What made you decide to cross the threshold?

00:38:30Marc:Were you auditioning?

00:38:31Marc:Did you figure out a way in to acting?

00:38:33Guest:Well, in college, I got a partner.

00:38:35Guest:And we did an act there, which was fun.

00:38:38Guest:And then we would go to comedy clubs, like B, C, 11 clubs.

00:38:41Guest:In Florida?

00:38:42Guest:No, in New York, because he came up.

00:38:44Guest:Oh, he did?

00:38:45Guest:So we did that.

00:38:46Guest:What were you doing?

00:38:47Guest:What was that?

00:38:47Guest:A team thing?

00:38:48Guest:Yeah, a team thing.

00:38:48Guest:We'd write skits.

00:38:49Guest:We'd have to rehearse and stuff like that.

00:38:51Marc:Was there a setup guy and a straight guy?

00:38:52Marc:I mean, was it goofing?

00:38:53Guest:No, we did skits.

00:38:54Guest:Oh, skits.

00:38:55Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:38:55Guest:uh we had different personalities yeah yeah different looks and everything but i got tired working with him yeah because i just want to do it on my own who was that guy did he go on to do a show business he for a little bit and then he got out now he's kind of trying to get back in yeah you know have called you no well no we got together about three years ago a mutual friend and we had a nice lunch and he he got married kids you know divorced no no he's still i think he was no

00:39:20Guest:Yes, he had an early marriage, got divorced and no kids.

00:39:24Marc:But now he wants to get back.

00:39:25Marc:Isn't that amazing?

00:39:26Guest:You never get it out of your blood.

00:39:28Guest:It's baffling to me.

00:39:31Guest:Why is it?

00:39:31Guest:Why?

00:39:32Marc:Well, because there's something really bittersweet and sort of sad about people that didn't have the wherewithal or the stupidity to pursue it for a life.

00:39:41Marc:And they decide at some point, like, well, I'm going to go make a life.

00:39:45Marc:And then they go make a life.

00:39:46Marc:And then they're still itchy and they want to do this.

00:39:47Marc:And it's very hard for them.

00:39:48Marc:How are you going to come back?

00:39:50Marc:How are you going to get back in?

00:39:51Guest:You never get it out of your blood.

00:39:52Guest:You have to accept that.

00:39:53Guest:Listen, I do a seminar for college.

00:39:56Guest:Do you really?

00:39:56Guest:Yeah.

00:39:57Guest:And I tell them.

00:39:58Guest:It's called Curtain Up, and it's about getting into this business.

00:40:03Guest:And what I do is over the past five, six years, I ask professionals, when you get out of college, what are the two things that helped you and what are the two things that worked against you?

00:40:14Guest:So I've collected all this information, and I go to colleges.

00:40:18Guest:I've been to, like, four or five now.

00:40:20Guest:It's a new thing?

00:40:21Guest:Yeah.

00:40:21Guest:It's something I wanted to do, like, for a while, but, you know...

00:40:25Marc:So they book you as a speaker?

00:40:27Guest:Yeah.

00:40:27Guest:I go in and do a stand-up, and then I do the seminar.

00:40:30Guest:Day after?

00:40:31Guest:The next day.

00:40:31Guest:And I only do it for college students because they're already working at it.

00:40:35Guest:I don't do it for civilians.

00:40:36Guest:It's not you can be a star.

00:40:37Marc:It's not a class.

00:40:38Guest:No.

00:40:39Guest:Here's great advice.

00:40:40Guest:This is what has helped me and other people.

00:40:42Guest:What is some of that advice?

00:40:44Marc:I like the answer to that question.

00:40:46Marc:What were those things?

00:40:47Guest:You're not outside looking in.

00:40:49Guest:Yeah.

00:40:50Guest:If you've acted in anything, directed anything, you're a director, you're an actor.

00:40:53Guest:Don't feel, you know, now you're just trying to get paid for it.

00:40:56Guest:Right.

00:40:56Guest:Establish, get an apartment.

00:40:59Guest:Don't couch surf.

00:41:00Guest:Right.

00:41:01Guest:You're also a business person, you know.

00:41:04Guest:I could have used that one.

00:41:05Guest:Yeah.

00:41:06Guest:I mean, this is all advice I could have used when I was coming up.

00:41:09Guest:And just a bunch of other stuff and stories, not just me.

00:41:13Guest:And I've gotten some advice from famous people.

00:41:15Guest:I don't drop names.

00:41:16Guest:I just let them know.

00:41:17Guest:And by the way, congratulations.

00:41:21Guest:You're working at it.

00:41:22Guest:This is valid.

00:41:24Guest:You may not think it is.

00:41:25Guest:It is.

00:41:25Guest:It's very valid.

00:41:26Guest:A lot of people I know are working at it.

00:41:28Marc:Well, that's a good differentiation between like... Because I think a lot of people who are doing creative things and want to pursue that stuff, they think that they're not doing anything until they get into show business.

00:41:38Marc:Yeah.

00:41:39Marc:Like there's some secret door.

00:41:40Guest:There is no door.

00:41:41Guest:You have to climb no wall.

00:41:43Guest:All you have to do is get a job, you know?

00:41:45Guest:Right.

00:41:46Guest:And chip away.

00:41:47Guest:And say yes.

00:41:48Guest:Mm-hmm.

00:41:48Guest:You know, if someone asks you to crew on a Sunday, you know, go.

00:41:52Guest:Yeah.

00:41:52Guest:Do it.

00:41:53Guest:Someone has tickets to an opera.

00:41:54Guest:You don't like opera?

00:41:55Guest:Go.

00:41:55Guest:Yeah.

00:41:55Guest:You know, you're there not only...

00:41:58Guest:to pursue your career, but to also be a witness to life, be around life.

00:42:02Guest:So if you're in New York or Chicago or L.A.

00:42:05Guest:Go look around.

00:42:06Guest:Yeah.

00:42:06Guest:Don't just limit yourself to, well, I'm a performer, so if you get a chance to produce something with somebody, do it.

00:42:14Guest:Yeah, try things.

00:42:16Guest:Absolutely.

00:42:16Guest:Overcome those fears.

00:42:18Guest:Yeah, that's why, listen, my goal was to be an actor and get on Broadway.

00:42:22Guest:Broadway is the only thing I haven't done.

00:42:24Guest:I've done everything else.

00:42:26Marc:And I still have that goal.

00:42:29Marc:Okay, so you're doing this team thing in comedy clubs, doing sketches.

00:42:34Marc:Did you figure out a way to start auditioning for Broadway when you moved up there?

00:42:38Marc:Were you disappointed to take the wall?

00:42:40Guest:I auditioned for, didn't even get near Broadway to audition.

00:42:44Guest:I walked in this producer's office one time.

00:42:46Guest:Yeah.

00:42:47Guest:And he said, are you here for the script?

00:42:48Guest:I said, yes, I am.

00:42:50Guest:And they handed me the script.

00:42:52Guest:I go, thank you.

00:42:52Guest:And I took it home and I prepared the part.

00:42:53Guest:I came back and they took it from me.

00:42:55Guest:He goes, we appreciate your moxie, but, you know, sorry.

00:42:58Guest:I appreciate your moxie.

00:42:59Guest:That's condescending.

00:43:00Guest:No, no, but here's the thing.

00:43:02Guest:When I was a bartender, I got fired from that.

00:43:05Guest:I was a waiter.

00:43:05Guest:I got fired from that.

00:43:06Guest:I couldn't hold a job.

00:43:07Guest:Why?

00:43:07Guest:Because after a while, I didn't give a fuck.

00:43:09Guest:Yeah.

00:43:09Guest:You know, at first it was great, and so after a while, I'm tired of it.

00:43:13Guest:Yeah, the show's over.

00:43:14Guest:Yeah.

00:43:16Guest:Like, I'll get away with it as long as I can, just sliding through, just like I did in school.

00:43:20Guest:Right.

00:43:21Guest:But then Silver, God bless her, offered me a job at the improv couple days a week answering phones.

00:43:28Guest:Oh, okay.

00:43:28Guest:So you went in there and asked for a job.

00:43:30Guest:You didn't audition?

00:43:30Guest:No, I auditioned and passed, but I was still waiting to get on.

00:43:34Guest:It was tough to get on back then.

00:43:35Marc:What was your first act?

00:43:36Guest:I mean, what did that feel like?

00:43:37Guest:I mean, how did you put that act together?

00:43:38Guest:Stand up?

00:43:38Guest:Yeah.

00:43:39Guest:I sat at home and I wrote it.

00:43:40Guest:I called my sisters and I go, when I made everyone laugh, what was I talking about?

00:43:43Guest:Oh, right, school.

00:43:44Guest:Did you really?

00:43:44Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:43:45Guest:Yeah.

00:43:45Guest:Yeah, I asked my dad, what was that thing I said?

00:43:48Guest:It was funny?

00:43:49Guest:Yeah, yeah.

00:43:50Guest:No, I just kind of wrote it out and did it.

00:43:55Guest:So anyway, I passed at the improv.

00:43:57Guest:I humped and humped.

00:43:58Marc:Who was there that night?

00:43:59Marc:Do you remember the night?

00:44:00Marc:Were you nervous?

00:44:01Guest:John Mendoza was the emcee.

00:44:02Guest:Hilarious.

00:44:03Guest:I was nervous as hell.

00:44:04Guest:mendoza was the mc that's a good mc because he's low energy and you know yeah he was relaxed yeah and uh he was empathetic yeah yeah to a point yeah he was a good guy do you remember anyone else were you too blind no no i was just on fire it was it was audition night so it was just a bunch of new was it like 80 90 81 81 august 81 and i passed okay i had a good set yeah yeah

00:44:24Guest:So then my money situation, I still had to work as a bartender.

00:44:27Guest:Right.

00:44:28Guest:She goes, why don't you answer the phone a couple days a week?

00:44:30Guest:Yeah.

00:44:30Guest:Great.

00:44:30Guest:So I did that.

00:44:31Guest:Now you're in.

00:44:32Guest:And then, you know, because I'm there, I'm getting a few more spots a week.

00:44:37Guest:But then a guy called one day and goes, hey, I had a comedian drop out.

00:44:41Guest:uh you got any westchester do you have anybody i said hang on and i went i go uh there's this new guy alan havey yeah he didn't know who i was you know i mean he's he's new here but he's really good yeah i need a killer no he'll he'll be fine it was a hundred bucks yeah i was that was my job yeah so a couple times i booked myself

00:44:58Guest:For what, feature spots or headlining spots?

00:45:01Guest:No, just like private parties or like, yeah, feature spots or I got a club.

00:45:05Guest:But you never got into a situation where you had to do an hour and you were like, you know, you had 20 and.

00:45:09Guest:No, but I had 20 and they needed a half hour out of me.

00:45:12Guest:Yeah.

00:45:12Guest:And it was a mob club.

00:45:14Guest:that was the call yeah that was a call okay and uh it was it was amazing because the first guy did okay but half the room was mob and half the room was civilians you just felt that the mob energy i knew it but the guy next to me goes why don't those guys shut up and i go why don't you you know why don't you go over there because are you scared i go yeah i am scared don't you watch movies

00:45:37Guest:You know?

00:45:38Guest:And so the first guy who was on does okay.

00:45:39Guest:Then second guy who wanted a headline, but he goes, no, I'll go on second.

00:45:43Guest:I bet you will.

00:45:43Guest:Yeah.

00:45:44Guest:He goes on bombs.

00:45:45Guest:Mob guy gets up off.

00:45:47Guest:Comedian off, you know?

00:45:49Guest:Then he'll look at me.

00:45:50Guest:You get on.

00:45:51Guest:So I get on and give myself a Madison Square Garden intro.

00:45:55Guest:You know, that corny thing.

00:45:56Guest:Here he is, Alan Havia.

00:45:57Guest:And it was me.

00:45:57Guest:Ha ha.

00:45:58Guest:Yeah.

00:45:58Guest:And I started doing my best stuff.

00:46:00Guest:And I get him going, get him going.

00:46:01Guest:Then I'm, you know, I decided to work with a crowd.

00:46:03Guest:Yeah.

00:46:03Guest:You know?

00:46:04Guest:And I had the mobsters.

00:46:05Guest:Because you needed more time.

00:46:06Guest:Yeah.

00:46:07Guest:But I was doing impressions of teachers in high school, you know, and they're banging the tables and wiping their eyes from officers.

00:46:15Guest:And there's this lady up front on the civilian side because I'm smart.

00:46:19Guest:And I said, oh, what's a corsage for, sweetheart?

00:46:22Guest:far corner of my eye i see this fucking gorilla this man look at me and his head tilts yeah and my brain goes get out out and she goes today's my birthday yeah what's your name marie everybody i pick up my guy how about a nice hand for maria drink to marie on her birthday you remind me of the fine women of my parish my my catholic school stuff i get off yeah i get off i'm walking out the guy grabs me you made my mother's night he's like grabbing my cheek you may tony what did i tell you i was gonna do this guy i said one word bad

00:46:51Guest:You said you were going to put him in a fucking oil drum.

00:46:53Guest:I was going to put you in a fucking oil.

00:46:55Guest:You said one word bad to my mother.

00:46:57Guest:His mom comes over, and I kiss her on the cheek.

00:47:00Guest:He said, who said you could kiss my mother?

00:47:02Guest:Everybody free.

00:47:02Guest:And then he goes, ah, I'm just busting your balls.

00:47:05Guest:He pulls out, peels off $500, puts it in my pocket.

00:47:09Guest:He goes, you think me, I'll fucking kill you.

00:47:12Guest:And I went out to the car.

00:47:13Guest:Because the guys were waiting in the car.

00:47:14Guest:They go, how was it?

00:47:15Guest:I go, toughest set I ever had.

00:47:16Guest:And when I got home, it was like, holy shit, I killed, I got 500 bucks, which was to me all the money in the world.

00:47:24Guest:I'm a professional, I'm a comedian.

00:47:26Marc:Yeah, was there that moment though?

00:47:28Marc:I mean, we didn't have to deal with this because it wasn't our generation, but there's a moment where you're like,

00:47:33Marc:do I got to be friends with the mob guys?

00:47:35Marc:No, no, no, no.

00:47:36Marc:You never be friends with those guys.

00:47:37Marc:It's scary, man.

00:47:38Guest:Yeah.

00:47:38Marc:Because they're around, and you can only see it, like, there's only a few cities you really see it in, and I think as it got, you know, by the 80s, it wasn't, there weren't really, you didn't get the sense of mob-owned clubs necessarily, but they were around.

00:47:48Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:47:49Guest:No, they were around.

00:47:50Guest:I think Catch started on Mob Money.

00:47:51Guest:Yeah.

00:47:52Guest:Yeah, the mob guys were around.

00:47:54Guest:I remember one time at Caroline's, this is well into my career.

00:47:58Guest:I'm on a roll.

00:47:59Guest:I'm riffing.

00:48:00Guest:I'm working the crowd.

00:48:00Guest:I got the crowd.

00:48:01Guest:There's a guy sitting up front.

00:48:02Guest:I kind of knew he was a mob guy.

00:48:03Guest:I go, hey, what's your name?

00:48:05Guest:Tony.

00:48:05Guest:Tony, what do you do for a living?

00:48:07Guest:None of your business.

00:48:09Guest:And that's all I said.

00:48:09Guest:I go, hey, don't talk to Tony.

00:48:12Guest:Boom, boom.

00:48:14Guest:That was it.

00:48:14Guest:I was, you know.

00:48:15Guest:You couldn't even look at him for the rest of the set, right?

00:48:17Guest:No.

00:48:17Guest:I looked over him.

00:48:19Marc:Oh, I did a lot of my Staten Island.

00:48:21Marc:Because when you first see your first guy, were you like, that guy's killed somebody?

00:48:24Marc:Where you look into their eyes and you know that there's just a wall there and you're like, all right.

00:48:28Marc:That was as long as I could hold that gaze.

00:48:30Guest:I'm in Staten Island.

00:48:31Guest:There's a guy down the front with a jacket.

00:48:33Guest:I go, hey, I like that jacket.

00:48:35Guest:And a guy opens it up.

00:48:36Guest:There's a gun.

00:48:37Guest:And there he goes, yeah, keep talking to me.

00:48:40Guest:I look up, smile, and go through my whole set with a smile.

00:48:44Guest:I walk off.

00:48:46Guest:And I brought up Dennis Wolper, who's going to show.

00:48:49Guest:I go, don't talk to the guy in the jacket.

00:48:50Guest:Yeah.

00:48:50Guest:That's all.

00:48:51Guest:Yeah.

00:48:52Guest:And he came up and goes, what were you smiling for?

00:48:53Guest:They were tough.

00:48:54Guest:I go, I had a gun.

00:48:55Guest:I'm smiling.

00:48:56Guest:I'm smiling until I get home.

00:48:59Guest:All right, so now you're working.

00:49:00Guest:It's 81, 82?

00:49:01Guest:Yeah, 82.

00:49:03Guest:October of 82, that's when I was making enough money.

00:49:06Marc:I think I told you this before when we did the live one, but when I was in Albuquerque, because if you started in 81, I don't know what the hell I was doing there, because I don't know when they shot that thing, but I saw you on television.

00:49:17Marc:I had no idea who the fuck you were, and I watched a lot of comedy.

00:49:20Marc:Right.

00:49:21Marc:But it must have been very early, because there was a show that they profiled you running around doing sets.

00:49:27Marc:Do you remember that?

00:49:28Marc:yeah i didn't know i i knew it was on it was an interview magazine okay and but there was a show that but i never saw the show but what year was that i'm 84 85 right so i it was before i you know i was still in college and i was like who's that guy that looks great you know like they're running around he's doing comedy everywhere and and and that was the first time i saw you and it was one of those things where it's like that's how it works in my head

00:49:52Guest:Well, that's how it worked in New York.

00:49:53Marc:Yeah, I know.

00:49:54Marc:I mean, I learned that when I got there, but like, I was like, holy shit, this is not, you don't just step out.

00:49:59Marc:You don't automatically become, you know, Jay Leno or whoever the hell I saw, Merv Griffin or whatever, but it was you just like hammering away.

00:50:05Marc:I didn't know who you were and you're just doing the job and they were following you around.

00:50:09Marc:It was fun.

00:50:09Marc:Other people went on to write that article probably 50 times over the course of any New York comic.

00:50:15Marc:Night in the life of a comedian.

00:50:16Guest:Yeah, in New York.

00:50:16Guest:It had been done many times.

00:50:17Marc:Right, right.

00:50:17Marc:I did seven spots.

00:50:19Marc:What was the most you ever did?

00:50:20Marc:Eight.

00:50:20Marc:Yeah, right?

00:50:21Marc:Yeah.

00:50:21Marc:So that was probably two at three clubs.

00:50:24Guest:Yeah, going back.

00:50:25Guest:Right, right.

00:50:26Guest:Open at the bottom line for someone to get over to Green Street.

00:50:28Guest:Right.

00:50:28Guest:To the Cellar Improv.

00:50:30Guest:Back over to- Comic Strip.

00:50:32Guest:A bottom line for the second show.

00:50:33Guest:Right.

00:50:34Guest:I didn't do the strip.

00:50:35Guest:It wasn't a club on my catch, maybe.

00:50:36Guest:But I remember one, I did eight downtown-

00:50:39Guest:It was at the Cellar Folk City, Bottom Line, and Green Street.

00:50:43Guest:I didn't have to go above Fifth Street.

00:50:45Guest:It was crazy, man.

00:50:47Marc:When you had to go from the Cellar to Catch or the Cellar to anywhere up to the Strip, that was nuts to get that cab.

00:50:53Guest:Or stand up in New York.

00:50:54Guest:Yeah.

00:50:55Guest:The cellar was great because you could grab the subway from improv, zip down to the cellar, do a spot, come back.

00:51:00Marc:Yeah, so she didn't let me in until long after I was, you know, I mean, she didn't let me in that club until she saw my HBO special.

00:51:06Marc:I mean, I was like, fucking.

00:51:07Marc:But you got in.

00:51:08Marc:Yeah, no, I do.

00:51:09Marc:I did.

00:51:10Guest:I mean, I got in when they started the club.

00:51:13Guest:So you're lucky.

00:51:13Guest:Yeah, you were grandfathered in.

00:51:15Marc:Yeah.

00:51:16Marc:Well, but I've always done well with that room.

00:51:20Guest:I never took it for granted.

00:51:21Marc:You were like the king of that room, and I think you had a lot of influence on a lot of comics that came out of there.

00:51:25Marc:I mean, when I used to do...

00:51:27Marc:You used to do very aggressive crowd work, I think, with a flashlight.

00:51:30Marc:Am I recalling that correctly?

00:51:32Marc:Yeah, yeah.

00:51:33Marc:Like no one was safe.

00:51:34Marc:You went up there.

00:51:35Marc:Didn't you have a flashlight?

00:51:36Guest:Yeah, I would do that.

00:51:37Guest:I had props.

00:51:38Guest:I wore soap on a rope around my neck.

00:51:40Guest:In the beginning?

00:51:41Guest:Yeah, in the beginning.

00:51:42Guest:And then I got rid of that and just pulled out the flashlight.

00:51:44Guest:Then I got rid of the flashlight.

00:51:45Guest:But I say, hey, you people up front.

00:51:47Guest:Don't worry.

00:51:48Guest:I don't pick on people.

00:51:49Guest:I go, people in the back think you're safe, and boom, I hit them with a flashlight.

00:51:53Guest:And then the crowd would explode.

00:51:54Guest:Yeah.

00:51:55Guest:It's not an easy room, I don't think, the cellar.

00:51:57Marc:No.

00:51:58Marc:You got to work hard.

00:51:59Marc:Yeah.

00:52:00Marc:You can't fuck off.

00:52:01Guest:No, you can't go up there and dick around.

00:52:02Marc:No.

00:52:03Marc:That's where you really learn how to, it's like a gym.

00:52:06Guest:I learned more and I grew more in that room than any room.

00:52:10Marc:So when you started doing, when you started working, so Catch was still pretty hot, right?

00:52:15Guest:Yeah.

00:52:15Guest:The original Catch was still in place.

00:52:17Guest:Oh yeah.

00:52:17Guest:Comic strip.

00:52:18Guest:The standup New York started like maybe 85.

00:52:21Marc:Right.

00:52:22Marc:But like that was still, like you're the generation in between me and like Seinfeld's generation.

00:52:27Guest:Yeah.

00:52:28Guest:Seinfeld was already established when I got in.

00:52:30Marc:And Reiser and all those guys.

00:52:31Guest:Reiser, Schiff, Rich Scheidner.

00:52:35Guest:Yep, yep.

00:52:36Guest:Carol Weaver.

00:52:36Guest:They were all catch people.

00:52:37Guest:They were all in place.

00:52:39Guest:Catch, improv, and strip.

00:52:40Guest:I think Jerry was more a strip guy.

00:52:43Marc:Yeah, and did you see Larry David and all those guys too?

00:52:46Guest:Yeah.

00:52:47Guest:In fact, when I started, my two favorite comedians were Seinfeld and Larry David.

00:52:51Guest:Yeah.

00:52:52Guest:And the fact that they got together and made this great show to me is like, oh, I love show business because it does work.

00:52:59Guest:I saw Stephen Wright in New York, and this is like a couple months before he went on The Tonight Show.

00:53:06Guest:I go, this guy can't get on television.

00:53:08Guest:This is a bullshit business.

00:53:09Guest:He was on.

00:53:10Guest:Good.

00:53:10Guest:That's all I need to hear.

00:53:12Guest:I see great work rewarded.

00:53:14Guest:That's all.

00:53:16Guest:I saw Kennison.

00:53:17Guest:And at the comic strip in front of 40 people and killed, killed me.

00:53:22Guest:He was fucking great.

00:53:23Guest:I go, this guy doesn't make it.

00:53:24Guest:Boom.

00:53:25Guest:Like over the next two years, he made it.

00:53:26Guest:You know, it was crazy to see him then, wasn't it?

00:53:28Guest:Oh, it was great.

00:53:29Guest:It was just, it was jaw dropping.

00:53:31Guest:He was great.

00:53:31Guest:And I realized, well, I'm not going to be the best comedian of my generation.

00:53:35Guest:Right.

00:53:35Guest:You know, after I saw him in Hicks, I go, well, I don't have to worry about being the best because I'm not going to be the best.

00:53:41Guest:Right.

00:53:41Guest:You know, so I'm just going to be a good comedian.

00:53:43Guest:Right.

00:53:43Marc:Well, I actually just sent my brother Kenison's first record.

00:53:47Marc:He asked me for it.

00:53:48Marc:You can't get it on CD.

00:53:49Marc:And my experience with that, beyond just a comic, in our generation, in my generation as well, there's very few people that literally change.

00:54:01Marc:There's a menace to it.

00:54:02Marc:There's an electricity to it that doesn't come from them being a star or anything else.

00:54:09Marc:That guy took the stage, and you're like, what the fuck is happening?

00:54:12Guest:No, it was great.

00:54:13Guest:And when I first saw him, women were pulling their husbands out.

00:54:16Guest:Oh, yeah.

00:54:16Guest:Like they were pulling children out of a candy store.

00:54:18Guest:You can't listen to that.

00:54:19Guest:The husband, no, no, this is, you know, this guy has truth and power, you know, and he's talking to me.

00:54:26Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:28Guest:You know, the guy at the, you know, with the carriage at the mall pushing the baby, somebody shoot me.

00:54:33Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:34Guest:Can't even replicate his vocal thing.

00:54:36Marc:It's weird.

00:54:37Marc:Like, do you remember, you know, moments where you're watching other dudes where you're like, holy fuck.

00:54:41Guest:you know what is that yeah you know stephen wright oh yeah just like his you know very simple before he got bigger yeah no this is before he was on the tonight when he was just sort of pacing and couldn't look at the audience and i saw him at the improv right he was great and we all knew it yeah it's weird when that happens it's it's i love it yeah yeah great here's a great thing you know what i i see guys now who no longer do stand up yeah yeah

00:55:05Guest:and you know they're still in show business or some are some aren't and they uh you know oh you still work the seller huh yeah yeah yeah i didn't quit yeah exactly and they go well they weren't uh they weren't as good as we were no they're better uh-huh you know because the quality of comedy now i last per pound or material any way you want to break it down not everybody

00:55:26Guest:But nowadays, I work at Hermosa, I work at the Improv, I work at the Seller.

00:55:30Guest:I think comedians are a lot better.

00:55:32Guest:This is a great time for comics.

00:55:35Guest:It's a good time for comics.

00:55:36Guest:Any generation.

00:55:37Guest:And I know they're coming in and out of the woodwork.

00:55:38Guest:There's a lot of comics out there.

00:55:40Guest:But there's some really good comedians.

00:55:41Guest:There's always really good guys.

00:55:43Guest:Yeah.

00:55:43Guest:But I mean, I think, like, you go, Friday night, Saturday night, guys would do okay, and then one guy would kill, you know, back in the day.

00:55:50Guest:Now everybody nails it.

00:55:52Guest:If you go see a show at the Comedy Cellar, especially on the weekend, everybody's good and unique.

00:55:58Marc:Yeah, I mean, there's no reason to argue.

00:56:00Marc:I'm just talking about the crowd.

00:56:01Marc:Yeah, no, yeah, there's no reason to argue it.

00:56:03Marc:But the older I get and the more I read, even about the 50s, the 60s, the 70s, there was always 1,000 comics.

00:56:10Marc:1,000, really?

00:56:12Marc:Oh, yeah.

00:56:12Marc:There was always like, well, maybe not 1,000, but there were a lot of B rooms.

00:56:16Marc:There's a whole world of comedy that I didn't even know existed.

00:56:19Marc:Like my buddy Cliff Nesteroff, he writes a lot about this era.

00:56:23Guest:The Last Laugh.

00:56:24Marc:Yeah, The Last Life, too.

00:56:25Guest:Phil Berger.

00:56:25Marc:The Berger's book, where you get that post-war boom.

00:56:28Marc:And there was just hundreds of B rooms with guys that had a half-hour shtick.

00:56:33Marc:And they never surfaced at all.

00:56:35Marc:Right.

00:56:35Marc:But they were out there working for a living.

00:56:36Guest:You never saw them on television?

00:56:38Marc:Never, never.

00:56:38Guest:It's always been like that.

00:56:39Guest:Well, Broadway Danny Rose, remember they're talking about you could work all these nightclubs in New York and not have to leave the town.

00:56:46Marc:And I don't think people really realize that.

00:56:48Marc:And there was always a lot of them.

00:56:50Marc:And there's a lot that no one ever heard of.

00:56:52Marc:Right.

00:56:52Marc:And, you know, today I think it's a good time for comedy because people are able to find their audience without having to appeal to everybody.

00:56:59Marc:Right.

00:57:00Marc:You know, there was a time where, you know, there was three channels.

00:57:02Marc:You got to get on one of the three channels and everyone knows who you are and then you work.

00:57:05Marc:Or in one of the three or four clubs.

00:57:06Marc:Right.

00:57:07Guest:Yeah.

00:57:07Marc:And it's just different.

00:57:08Marc:But there are a lot of great guys.

00:57:09Marc:But I'll tell you, man, when I see a guy that's really got like a character and a point of view, like I don't like a lot of times you can sit in the back of a club, you know, out here, especially and close your eyes and you can't tell the difference.

00:57:19Marc:You know, it's a minor tonal difference in the point of view.

00:57:22Marc:But when one dude has a full thing going, it's great to see.

00:57:26Marc:I love to laugh.

00:57:27Marc:Yeah, it is.

00:57:28Marc:Okay, so you're in New York, you're pounding it out, and you did your show night after night.

00:57:35Marc:Because I was at HBO Downtown.

00:57:37Marc:I was the last host of Short Attention Span Theater, and that was 93.

00:57:42Marc:So you were long gone.

00:57:44Guest:Not long gone.

00:57:45Guest:Our show ended at the end of 92.

00:57:47Guest:Really?

00:57:47Guest:Yeah.

00:57:48Guest:December 30th, 92.

00:57:49Guest:That was my last show.

00:57:50Guest:And you did three years?

00:57:51Guest:Three years.

00:57:51Guest:Just over three years.

00:57:52Marc:And when you went in, was it Comedy Central?

00:57:54Guest:Was it Ha?

00:57:55Guest:Was it the Comedy Network?

00:57:56Guest:It was called the Comedy Channel.

00:57:57Guest:The Comedy Channel, right.

00:57:58Guest:And they merged with Ha, and then the last year was Comedy Central.

00:58:01Marc:And who was around?

00:58:02Marc:Because I know HBO Downtown had the affiliation.

00:58:05Marc:They produced a lot of the shows.

00:58:07Marc:They did Inside the Comic Mind.

00:58:09Marc:They did the Higgins Boys and Gruber show.

00:58:11Marc:They did Short Attendance to Fan Theater.

00:58:13Marc:They did Politically Incorrect.

00:58:14Marc:They did your show.

00:58:14Marc:Politically Incorrect came after me.

00:58:17Marc:Yeah.

00:58:17Marc:After I left.

00:58:18Marc:oh really yeah so he oh that's right he was still doing it but it wasn't shot in that studio down there because i think i shot in the same place you did did you shoot right in the building on 23rd uh-huh like in that little room that wasn't even well it was a studio but it had open doors right and you know yeah yeah but still it was fun it was it was so much fun doing that show what was how was the pitch how'd that happen for you

00:58:39Guest:I didn't give a damn.

00:58:40Guest:I went in for the audition.

00:58:42Guest:Oh, it was an audition.

00:58:43Guest:Every comedian.

00:58:45Guest:And so I didn't give a crap.

00:58:46Guest:So I went in and I smoked.

00:58:48Guest:I called.

00:58:48Guest:I said, I'm cheating on my girlfriend.

00:58:50Guest:I called this girl on the phone.

00:58:52Guest:And apparently Michael Fuchs, the head of HBO, goes, that's the late night guy.

00:58:56Marc:Yeah.

00:58:56Guest:Done.

00:58:56Marc:Yeah.

00:58:57Marc:That was it.

00:58:57Marc:He was the champion of comedy in the early HBO.

00:59:01Marc:Yeah.

00:59:01Marc:Michael Fuchs.

00:59:02Marc:Yeah, he was great.

00:59:03Guest:And Nancy Geller was his person.

00:59:06Guest:Yeah, then she came up and she was a big fan of comedy.

00:59:11Guest:Yeah.

00:59:13Guest:A real big fan of comedy.

00:59:15Yeah.

00:59:15Guest:And they gave us really total creative control.

00:59:20Guest:They didn't mess with us.

00:59:20Guest:It was great.

00:59:21Guest:And who was the producer?

00:59:23Guest:Scott Carter.

00:59:25Guest:Scott Carter.

00:59:25Guest:Who was one of my best friends.

00:59:27Marc:I've had him on the show.

00:59:28Marc:He does Bill's show.

00:59:30Marc:He was a guy that was a stand-up, but he wasn't cut out for it.

00:59:36Marc:More performance.

00:59:38Marc:Right, and then he did the one-man show thing, the asthma camp thing, and now he's sort of like, he's evolved into a very intellectual person, Scott.

00:59:45Guest:Yeah, well, he was that way then, and we were very close, and I said, I wanted someone to come in who knew me and who could handle the suits and stuff like that, so that relationship worked out.

00:59:57Marc:So he cut his teeth with you?

00:59:58Guest:Yeah.

00:59:59Marc:Isn't that interesting how that works?

01:00:00Marc:Because when I did short attention to men theater, I gave John Groff his first writing job and he went on to be the head writer at Conan.

01:00:05Marc:And it's weird.

01:00:06Marc:These guys, don't you, do you ever have that moment where you envy it all?

01:00:10Marc:The dudes that had the wherewithal to realize that standup comedy on some level was a crapshoot, but they knew they were funny and they managed that talent.

01:00:18Marc:And they're like, well, I'm going to, I'm going to do this other thing.

01:00:20Marc:It's great.

01:00:21Guest:It never occurred to me.

01:00:23Guest:No, because I was a performer.

01:00:25Guest:You too.

01:00:26Guest:Yeah, we're show folk.

01:00:28Guest:You know what I mean?

01:00:29Guest:We got to be out there.

01:00:32Guest:I don't want to sit down at a table with a bunch of fat guys and think of a line and play politics and eat donuts.

01:00:39Guest:That's not me.

01:00:40Guest:Yeah, I couldn't even think about how you would do that.

01:00:42Guest:Well, I had to do that eventually.

01:00:44Guest:Scott and I had a falling out of my attention, and I felt I wasn't protected.

01:00:47Guest:So I really had some anger there.

01:00:50Guest:And just recently, the last few years, we've contacted each other.

01:00:53Guest:Oh, really?

01:00:54Guest:Yeah.

01:00:54Guest:He's got a 20-year B for more?

01:00:56Guest:Yeah.

01:00:56Guest:He came out to see my one-man show and was very nice and gracious about that.

01:01:01Guest:He extended an olive branch, and I've been in touch with him, and it's been nice.

01:01:05Guest:You hold a grudge?

01:01:08Guest:Yeah.

01:01:10Guest:Are we okay with the- No, I never had a problem with you except for time.

01:01:13Marc:I'm sorry I went long.

01:01:15Marc:I just want to make it official.

01:01:16Marc:I apologize for going long.

01:01:17Marc:Accepted.

01:01:18Guest:It's water under the bridge, dude.

01:01:20Guest:Yeah, okay.

01:01:21Guest:All right, man.

01:01:21Guest:But I don't hold a grudge.

01:01:22Guest:I mean, this really hurt me.

01:01:24Guest:I took it personally.

01:01:26Guest:Maybe I shouldn't have, but we had communication problems, and I felt I was thrown under the bus.

01:01:31Marc:Oh, okay.

01:01:32Marc:And was that towards the end of the show?

01:01:34Guest:Yeah, like maybe the last year.

01:01:36Marc:But that show got a very interesting cult following.

01:01:38Marc:You did The Audience of One, which I think was cutting edge.

01:01:41Guest:Still in touch with some of those dudes through Facebook.

01:01:43Guest:Yeah.

01:01:44Guest:You know who I gave a break to?

01:01:45Guest:Who?

01:01:46Guest:Mike Judge.

01:01:47Guest:Really?

01:01:47Guest:Yeah.

01:01:48Guest:I had a stack of VHS tapes one night.

01:01:50Guest:I'm walking through them, wait at night.

01:01:51Guest:And then his cartoon comes on Milton.

01:01:53Guest:Yeah.

01:01:54Guest:I did a couple.

01:01:54Guest:Yeah.

01:01:54Guest:I go, grab this guy.

01:01:56Guest:Yeah.

01:01:57Guest:And I went to the heads and I said, you should make a production deal with him.

01:02:00Guest:okay I'm not that guy but this is a guy who he's talented he's young these are funny this is what you do right you know you grab young talent it just came to you unsolicited through the show unsolicited just sent it in because you wanted to put it on the show yeah and we put it on the show we flew him up

01:02:18Guest:I introduced him to the Monty Python director, Terry Gilliam, who happened to be a guest.

01:02:25Guest:And then he, you know, a couple years later, Beavis and Butthead.

01:02:30Guest:I've run into him a few times, and, you know, he always gave me credit.

01:02:33Guest:Oh, really?

01:02:33Guest:So...

01:02:34Guest:Yeah, I had Tupac Shakur on at like 10.30 in the morning.

01:02:37Guest:He was great.

01:02:38Guest:He was a gentleman.

01:02:39Guest:And people say, where's that interview?

01:02:40Guest:I don't know.

01:02:40Guest:It's on a VHS tape.

01:02:42Marc:Isn't that weird?

01:02:43Guest:You were doing it nightly.

01:02:45Guest:How long was the show?

01:02:46Guest:The show was an hour.

01:02:47Guest:It first started three hours with clips, and then they pared that down.

01:02:50Guest:Oh, so you were actually like the evening's programming.

01:02:52Guest:Yeah.

01:02:53Guest:Right.

01:02:53Guest:And then we got it down to a one-hour show.

01:02:56Guest:But you'd strip it, so you'd tape two days, three days a week and knock them out or what?

01:02:59Guest:No, we got down to it.

01:03:01Guest:We'd tape every day, Monday through Friday, 10.30 in the morning.

01:03:04Guest:Right.

01:03:05Guest:And it would air that night.

01:03:06Guest:Right.

01:03:07Marc:So you were one of those guys for a while where I was like, what the hell does he do?

01:03:13Marc:After that show, and you were just doing stand-up.

01:03:15Guest:Stand-up.

01:03:16Guest:It was all stand-up.

01:03:17Guest:Every weekend after that show, I never missed a night of stand-up because I knew it wasn't going to last.

01:03:22Guest:But you're a financially responsible guy.

01:03:25Guest:Yeah.

01:03:27Guest:Pretty much.

01:03:27Guest:Right.

01:03:28Guest:I'm not broke.

01:03:29Guest:I put my money away, but I still got to work.

01:03:31Guest:Right, right, right, right, right.

01:03:33Guest:But I don't have kids.

01:03:34Guest:Yeah.

01:03:35Guest:You know, I just got married like five years ago to my longtime girlfriend.

01:03:40Guest:Really?

01:03:41Guest:Yeah.

01:03:41Guest:Are you going to have a kid?

01:03:42Guest:No.

01:03:43Guest:No, I don't want to.

01:03:44Guest:Dude, that ship has sailed?

01:03:46Guest:No, it's gone.

01:03:47Guest:The boat's left the harbor.

01:03:49Guest:It's sailed over the horizon.

01:03:50Guest:Yeah.

01:03:50Guest:And I remember growing up, I was talking to my cousin, Jerry, who I recently saw.

01:03:54Guest:We were kids.

01:03:55Guest:He goes, I don't want to get married.

01:03:57Guest:And he said, who's going to do your dishes?

01:03:59Guest:Who's going to do your laundry?

01:04:00Guest:I mean, this is the 60s.

01:04:01Guest:I said, I'm only going to have one dish.

01:04:06Guest:I'm only going to have a couple of clothes.

01:04:10Guest:And he looked at me like, yeah.

01:04:11Guest:I said, and I kept that.

01:04:13Guest:Because growing up, raising kids didn't look like a lot of fun.

01:04:17Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:04:19Guest:I mean, some guys grow up in their primary things.

01:04:22Guest:I want a family first, then a career.

01:04:24Guest:I never thought of that.

01:04:25Guest:No, me neither.

01:04:26Guest:I didn't think of either.

01:04:26Guest:I was just like, I want to be a comedian or an artist of some kind.

01:04:31Guest:Exactly.

01:04:31Guest:I want to be a performer.

01:04:32Guest:I want to be an actor.

01:04:33Guest:Okay, comedian, great.

01:04:34Guest:And through the 80s, like...

01:04:36Guest:Get married.

01:04:37Guest:Are you out of your mind?

01:04:38Guest:Yeah.

01:04:39Guest:And my girlfriend didn't want to get married.

01:04:40Guest:Yeah.

01:04:41Guest:So it was great.

01:04:42Guest:So you've been with her a long time, though.

01:04:43Guest:Yeah.

01:04:44Guest:Known her a long time.

01:04:45Marc:That's great.

01:04:46Marc:It's fantastic.

01:04:47Marc:But now the interesting thing about you is that, like, you know, you show up on TV, show up in movies here and there.

01:04:53Marc:and like now because it sounds like to me that during the acting thing or during the stand-up thing you were you were you were like you know a warrior you were a stand-up guy yeah but you always had this thing in your heart to be an actor and then like i start seeing it now i see on louis i see on madman i see in movies occasionally and it's like i did a couple episodes of the office this year which i really wanted to do you know because it was the last season

01:05:15Marc:But this is like, now it's happening.

01:05:17Guest:I'll tell you what.

01:05:18Guest:I'll tell you why.

01:05:19Guest:You just came from an audition today.

01:05:21Guest:You're wearing a tie.

01:05:21Guest:Right, right.

01:05:23Guest:I've been meditating the last couple years.

01:05:25Guest:These last two years are the busiest acting I've ever had in my career.

01:05:28Guest:Okay.

01:05:30Guest:I started that seminar.

01:05:31Guest:Right.

01:05:31Guest:And I started to research.

01:05:32Guest:Yeah.

01:05:33Guest:And I started to watch motivational speakers.

01:05:35Guest:I absorbed everything.

01:05:36Guest:To build your own presentation.

01:05:41Guest:Yes, exactly.

01:05:42Guest:And I started kind of re-energizing that hunger again.

01:05:48Guest:And I think it's really helped me in auditions.

01:05:50Guest:And actors, I feel like a professional auditioner.

01:05:54Guest:That's what you are.

01:05:55Guest:that's exactly what you are every part of your job is part of your profession there's not auditions but when you get a job no it's the same thing and so i feel and my my wife who helps me prepare yeah when she can right she has a really good ear yeah she goes yeah well you might want to do it that way a little bit yeah that sounds better right you know you got to play it out yeah one time you make choices you're gonna get this part

01:06:19Guest:yeah i said yeah and i and i got it it was like for good luck charlie a disney show uh-huh you know uh and i got the part she she really has a good ear so that helps me and also it seems that like um like well certainly louis you know you know louis for years and that was the part of the the husband right but he wrote that part for somebody else who couldn't do it oh really yeah i won't mention the comedian but he couldn't do it and louis god bless him said i just you know

01:06:43Guest:I'm just going to let you know I wrote this for somebody else.

01:06:46Guest:Yeah.

01:06:46Guest:That person can't do it, but I think you could do it great.

01:06:48Guest:Yeah.

01:06:48Guest:Fantastic.

01:06:49Guest:Yeah.

01:06:49Guest:You know?

01:06:50Guest:Yeah.

01:06:50Guest:And that was huge because the industry watches that show.

01:06:53Guest:Yeah.

01:06:54Guest:And they see me do stand-up and acting.

01:06:55Guest:Oh, this guy.

01:06:56Guest:Oh, okay.

01:06:57Guest:Let's have him in.

01:06:57Marc:Right.

01:06:58Guest:Helps.

01:06:58Guest:So it opens doors.

01:06:59Marc:And is it, what are your hopes for it?

01:07:03Marc:I got it.

01:07:04Guest:I'm acting, I'm auditioning, I'm doing stand-up.

01:07:07Marc:And the Mad Men part, it's great because you're able to sort of score and you're doing you in a way, you know, cranky.

01:07:14Guest:That's what the job is.

01:07:15Guest:You are that person.

01:07:17Guest:Bring yourself to that part.

01:07:18Guest:Yeah.

01:07:19Guest:Oh, I'm going to learn a walk and a voice.

01:07:21Guest:No, it's you.

01:07:22Guest:Yeah.

01:07:23Guest:And Mad Men's my favorite show.

01:07:26Guest:Yeah.

01:07:26Guest:By far.

01:07:27Guest:And I love The Sopranos and Breaking Bad, but I just love Mad Men because of that time.

01:07:32Guest:It's a romantic period, even with all the bullshit.

01:07:34Marc:It's your childhood.

01:07:35Marc:Yes.

01:07:35Marc:Because you're like 10 years older than me, so you actually have memories of the 60s, like meeting Kennedy and stuff.

01:07:40Marc:Oh, yeah.

01:07:41Guest:Watching Lyndon Baines Johnson, seeing the Chicago riots.

01:07:44Guest:I was there.

01:07:45Guest:I mean, because it was on television.

01:07:46Guest:Right.

01:07:47Guest:Not in Miami.

01:07:48Guest:Right.

01:07:49Guest:But you might as well have told me at six years old I was going to be on The Honeymooners.

01:07:53Guest:That's how excited I was to get on Mad Men.

01:07:56Guest:And I like the fact that I can still get excited, that I'm not jaded, that I'm not bitter.

01:08:01Guest:Because around 15 years ago, I went to a period to go, that's it.

01:08:06Guest:It's over.

01:08:07Guest:I mean, I'll do stand-up, but...

01:08:10Guest:My career's over.

01:08:11Guest:Were you bitter?

01:08:12Guest:I was sad more than bitter.

01:08:15Guest:I think because that must be when I met you, right?

01:08:17Guest:No, it was 98.

01:08:19Guest:We met before that.

01:08:22Guest:No, don't try to get out of this now.

01:08:25Guest:You went long.

01:08:26Guest:It was just about time.

01:08:29Guest:No, but I said, this is it.

01:08:30Guest:And then about three months later, I said, no, no, it's not it.

01:08:33Guest:You just keep going.

01:08:34Guest:Just keep going.

01:08:35Marc:Exactly.

01:08:35Marc:What are you going to do?

01:08:36Marc:You're not prepared to do anything else.

01:08:38Guest:Yeah.

01:08:38Guest:That's a powerful moment.

01:08:40Guest:If I had gone on the road and there was a lady who was a widower or a divorcee, I said, you know what?

01:08:47Guest:Maybe I can.

01:08:48Guest:Come with me.

01:08:48Guest:I'll take care of you.

01:08:49Guest:I probably would have done it.

01:08:50Guest:Yeah.

01:08:51Guest:At that period.

01:08:52Guest:Sure, sure.

01:08:53Guest:You mean, yeah, you can teach theater or something.

01:08:55Guest:I have plenty of money to get a big house.

01:08:57Guest:Beautiful.

01:08:57Guest:Yeah.

01:09:00Guest:It's like that Randy Nguyen song.

01:09:02Guest:Come on in for a couple years.

01:09:03Guest:I'll take care of you.

01:09:04Marc:Right.

01:09:05Marc:But isn't it funny that that's a plan B when you do what we do in your 40s.

01:09:10Marc:Like, what am I going to do?

01:09:11Marc:Maybe I can meet a woman that's got a lot of money and no hope.

01:09:15Guest:Or no, she's got a lot of money.

01:09:17Guest:She loves me.

01:09:18Guest:She's seen me on television.

01:09:20Guest:I want him for me.

01:09:22Guest:I want you.

01:09:23Marc:Where's that?

01:09:23Marc:Can I put it on Craigslist?

01:09:25Marc:Is there a way I can apply for that job?

01:09:26Guest:I don't know.

01:09:27Guest:I guess there is.

01:09:28Guest:But I was 44 at the time ago.

01:09:30Guest:And I had just gotten out of... I was living with my girlfriend.

01:09:33Guest:We weren't getting along.

01:09:35Guest:I had a toxic affair.

01:09:36Guest:which was exciting.

01:09:38Guest:Toxic affairs are so exciting.

01:09:39Guest:Oh, it's the best kind of affair.

01:09:41Guest:And I got out of that and rekindled things.

01:09:46Guest:Oh, yeah?

01:09:46Guest:How long did that take?

01:09:47Guest:About a year.

01:09:49Guest:And since then, it's been really good.

01:09:52Marc:So you felt the heartbreak and the sadness and the defeat, and that's when you started meditating?

01:09:57Guest:No.

01:09:58Guest:I just stopped myself and said, no, it's not over.

01:10:03Guest:You just go out there and...

01:10:04Guest:I started meditating a couple years ago because three friends mentioned it.

01:10:08Guest:Brian Koppelman, David Levine.

01:10:11Guest:We're meditating to my buddy Jack Perez, a film director.

01:10:13Guest:What, TM?

01:10:13Marc:Transcendental Meditation?

01:10:14Guest:No, just put on a tape and meditate, concentrate on your breathing.

01:10:19Guest:I got to fucking start doing this.

01:10:20Guest:The accumulative effect has been great, and you can't do it wrong.

01:10:24Guest:It's not like, oh, I'm meditating.

01:10:26Guest:Wow, what happened?

01:10:27Guest:It just takes time, and you just keep it in your day.

01:10:30Guest:It's like brushing your teeth or working out or not smoking or watching your diet.

01:10:37Guest:After a while, you feel, okay, I kind of clicked into something here.

01:10:42Guest:Really?

01:10:42Guest:Just keep this going.

01:10:43Guest:Yeah.

01:10:44Guest:It's not like the, you know, you don't hear music.

01:10:46Guest:Right.

01:10:46Guest:But I'm a lot calmer.

01:10:48Guest:I'm a lot more accepting.

01:10:49Guest:Daily?

01:10:49Guest:You do it daily?

01:10:50Guest:Yeah.

01:10:51Guest:How long?

01:10:52Guest:20 minutes in the morning.

01:10:53Guest:Sometimes in the afternoon, but usually in the morning, like 20 minutes.

01:10:56Guest:You just sit out somewhere or you go in the room?

01:10:58Guest:I put on my iPod or I put on the little disc or when I don't have it, I just breathe.

01:11:02Guest:Yeah.

01:11:02Guest:On the balcony in my room.

01:11:03Guest:room yeah you know we don't have kids yeah so that's huge yeah by the way yeah not having children gives you a little space a lot of space a lot of time now before we started we were talking about the idea of careers and i guess you know you were gonna make a point about it but i think the point is made is that you don't know what's gonna happen you don't stay with it you stay with it the only way you can get out of this business is quit no one's gonna fire you but what happens then

01:11:29Marc:What do you mean?

01:11:30Marc:Like, I don't even know how to quit.

01:11:31Marc:Exactly.

01:11:33Guest:You know why?

01:11:34Guest:That's why we're not producers.

01:11:36Guest:That's why we didn't go and say, you know what, I'm going to get a writing gig on a sitcom and make that work.

01:11:40Marc:When I wanted to quit, I didn't even know what that looked like.

01:11:42Marc:All I could think was, like, I die?

01:11:43Marc:Do I die?

01:11:44Marc:Yeah.

01:11:45Guest:You know, Coppola in the Hearts of Darkness documentary.

01:11:48Guest:Yeah, yeah, I saw it.

01:11:50Guest:He said, I can't quit myself.

01:11:51Guest:How can I quit myself?

01:11:54Guest:Because I knew, as many people we know, that quit stand-up and went into the regular job jobs, they still got it in them.

01:12:02Guest:It's still gnawing at their guts.

01:12:04Marc:Because to quit yourself, the defeat of that or that decision...

01:12:09Marc:How do you let go of that?

01:12:11Guest:Pick up a bottle.

01:12:12Guest:Get an eight ball.

01:12:14Guest:That's how you do it.

01:12:14Guest:Buy a pound of pot and just sit in a room and watch Turner Classic movies all day.

01:12:18Guest:You know that guy?

01:12:19Guest:You got to know a couple guys like that?

01:12:21Guest:I know one guy.

01:12:22Guest:Has a bong cemented into a bowl, butt all around it.

01:12:27Guest:The worst thing you can do is have a trust fund.

01:12:30Guest:Just enough money to get by.

01:12:32Guest:I think those days are over.

01:12:33Guest:I don't think I got one.

01:12:34Marc:Unless there's a surprise somewhere that I don't know about.

01:12:36Marc:And I pray for that sometimes.

01:12:38Marc:Oh, God damn it.

01:12:39Marc:Wouldn't that be great?

01:12:40Guest:But I wouldn't quit.

01:12:41Guest:Look at Larry David.

01:12:42Guest:Look at Jerry Seinfeld, Ray Romano.

01:12:44Guest:They have enough money.

01:12:45Guest:They can go the rest of their lives without working.

01:12:47Guest:They still work because they have that fire.

01:12:50Guest:Yeah, they can't.

01:12:51Guest:Money doesn't put it out.

01:12:53Guest:Some people, I think, when they get enough money, stop.

01:12:56Guest:I don't see any shame in that.

01:12:58Guest:No, no, no.

01:12:59Guest:There's no shame in quitting either.

01:13:02Guest:Well, no, it's a hard business.

01:13:03Guest:I know, I know.

01:13:03Guest:You're right, you're right.

01:13:04Guest:I can't blame anyone for quitting.

01:13:05Guest:Hey, I'm quitting.

01:13:07Guest:Good for you.

01:13:07Guest:Sorry to hear that, but, you know.

01:13:09Guest:Congratulations.

01:13:10Guest:Yeah, you came to that realization.

01:13:12Marc:You can live with it.

01:13:13Marc:Good for you.

01:13:14Marc:Good luck living with it.

01:13:15Marc:So how often are you doing the stand-up?

01:13:16Marc:Do you pace it out?

01:13:17Guest:Do you feel urgent about it?

01:13:18Guest:Do you go out like, I got to get fucking three weeks?

01:13:20Guest:Well, when I got to L.A., Bud started open rooms in Reno, Tahoe, Vegas, New Orleans.

01:13:27Guest:So I basically said, I'm just going to work Bud's rooms and occasionally some other rooms and stay in town to audition and give myself that time.

01:13:37Guest:And that's worked out for me.

01:13:38Guest:In the long run, it has.

01:13:39Guest:Not at the beginning.

01:13:41Guest:and right now if my career goes just the way it's going now i'm happy yeah i have no i don't want to be number one box office you know i mean i'm 58 so yeah but i don't like oh you know i had a shot at a sitcom like six seven years ago didn't work out okay what was the angle free ride i was the dad it was on fox six episodes it could have worked i felt but they gave up on it

01:14:05Guest:Did that hurt?

01:14:06Guest:Yeah.

01:14:07Guest:But here's the thing.

01:14:09Guest:People say, hey, this is it, man.

01:14:11Guest:I know better.

01:14:13Guest:I was 50.

01:14:14Guest:That's not it.

01:14:15Guest:No, this is not it.

01:14:16Guest:If it becomes it, fantastic.

01:14:18Guest:But in my heart of hearts, I knew this could go away.

01:14:21Guest:So just enjoy it.

01:14:23Guest:Banked the money, which I did.

01:14:25Guest:And then when it was canceled, I thanked God for the opportunity and moved on.

01:14:30Guest:So you still got God.

01:14:31Guest:Yeah.

01:14:32Guest:And I don't know.

01:14:33Guest:And he's my God.

01:14:34Guest:Yeah.

01:14:35Guest:It's a God.

01:14:36Guest:Even as a Catholic, I had this relationship with God.

01:14:38Guest:You're not the Catholic God.

01:14:38Guest:You're kind of my God.

01:14:39Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:14:40Guest:Or my woman.

01:14:41Guest:Alternative Jesus.

01:14:43Guest:Not even an alternative Jesus.

01:14:44Guest:Yeah, yeah.

01:14:45Guest:It's just like I believe.

01:14:48Guest:I call myself a believer.

01:14:49Guest:Right.

01:14:49Guest:But that's it.

01:14:50Guest:Right.

01:14:51Guest:No organized religion.

01:14:53Marc:That's good.

01:14:53Marc:Yeah, you're just able to realize it's not you and there's probably something bigger.

01:14:57Marc:It is me, but it's more than me.

01:14:58Guest:You know, it has to be me.

01:15:01Guest:I can't let God, God help me with this thing.

01:15:03Guest:Yeah, yeah, sure.

01:15:04Guest:I need help.

01:15:05Guest:Here's the best prayer you can say.

01:15:07Guest:Thank you.

01:15:09Guest:Thank you.

01:15:09Guest:Thank you for my problems.

01:15:11Guest:Thank you for my successes.

01:15:12Guest:You know, fucking Kipling.

01:15:14Guest:I don't get him.

01:15:16Guest:I've had much success and much failure in my life.

01:15:19Guest:And I cannot treat those two imposters just the same.

01:15:22Guest:You know what I mean?

01:15:23Guest:So I don't understand that poem.

01:15:24Guest:My dad read that to me when I was a kid, and that was a part I could never wrap my head around.

01:15:29Guest:The imposter's line?

01:15:30Guest:You know, there's a line, it's called If.

01:15:32Guest:Yeah.

01:15:32Guest:I read a couple of those.

01:15:33Guest:If you can meet with success and failure and treat those two imposters just the same.

01:15:38Guest:Sorry, can't do it.

01:15:41Guest:They're not imposters, because when you fail, you fucking fail.

01:15:44Guest:When you go out and the crowd looks at you like trout, you know?

01:15:47Guest:Yeah.

01:15:48Guest:And or you get a part, that's a different feeling.

01:15:51Guest:Yeah.

01:15:51Guest:It's a different thing.

01:15:52Marc:So you still can't wrap your brain around that line?

01:15:55Marc:No.

01:15:56Marc:That neither one of those define you necessarily?

01:15:59Guest:No, they don't define me, but they suck.

01:16:01Guest:It sucks when you go up and have a shitty set or you go in and you're in the middle of audition and you're nowhere.

01:16:08Guest:Yeah.

01:16:08Guest:You're just lost.

01:16:09Guest:It's just like, and you're wasting their time and your time.

01:16:12Guest:Yeah.

01:16:13Guest:And they're writing down in notes like, never have this guy in again.

01:16:16Guest:Alan who?

01:16:17Guest:Yeah.

01:16:19Guest:You're burning bridges and you're not trying.

01:16:22Guest:It's one thing to burn a bridge and really enjoy it.

01:16:24Marc:Yeah, with the fire.

01:16:25Guest:Yeah.

01:16:26Guest:Fuck you.

01:16:27Marc:No, burning bridges where you don't intend it.

01:16:29Marc:It's like, okay.

01:16:30Marc:thank you i just read something about you burn bridges with several people gq i think yeah here's how here's how you screw up a career you had like four lessons like that yeah but i just have that capacity and you probably have it too that like you know if i say something cutting it's not you know it's funny but it's just too cutting right and like you know it's like the grudge thing like you can you can say something to somebody that they will never forget or forgive you for

01:16:56Guest:You can't do that.

01:16:58Guest:Oh, I've done that.

01:16:58Guest:Oh, my father was a professional, non-solicited advice giver-outer.

01:17:05Guest:So I felt it was my duty to tell people I know and strangers, here's exactly what's wrong with you.

01:17:11Guest:And I felt that my anger, people say, isn't anger normal?

01:17:16Guest:I thought anger was normal.

01:17:17Guest:I'm being honest.

01:17:18Guest:Yes, this is the real me.

01:17:20Guest:Boy, did I fuck up.

01:17:23Marc:It's important to get humbled, man.

01:17:25Guest:Oh, yeah.

01:17:27Guest:Humility is a beautiful thing.

01:17:29Guest:Yeah, because if you don't get humbled, you can't say thank you.

01:17:32Guest:Yeah, exactly.

01:17:33Marc:But thank you for doing this, Alan.

01:17:34Marc:It was great talking to you.

01:17:35Marc:My pleasure.

01:17:36Marc:It was great.

01:17:41Marc:Okay, folks, that's it.

01:17:43Marc:That's the show.

01:17:44Marc:Wasn't Alan Havy nice?

01:17:46Marc:Solid guy.

01:17:47Marc:Solid comic.

01:17:48Marc:Great talk.

01:17:50Marc:I saw Def Blackcat.

01:17:51Marc:He's okay.

01:17:52Marc:I'm just putting that out there.

01:17:54Marc:I think he's kind of screwed up because I'm getting up really early to go shoot, and I think we had a schedule going, and now he's not.

01:18:01Marc:I'm not on it, so he's not on it.

01:18:02Marc:So I don't know.

01:18:03Marc:He was laying on the deck the other day, so I think he's okay.

01:18:05Marc:Unless I was hallucinating from NyQuil.

01:18:08Marc:WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.

01:18:11Marc:Get that app if you want.

01:18:13Marc:You can get the most recent 50 episodes always for free, so that means every episode is free for six months.

01:18:18Marc:If you get the app and then upgrade to the premium app, you can listen to all 400 and some odd episodes at your leisure.

01:18:24Marc:Stream them right into your head.

01:18:26Marc:It's a good deal, and people are enjoying it, especially you newbies who are like, wow, why didn't I know about this before?

01:18:32Marc:Well, you can catch up from the first episode.

01:18:34Marc:If you read Brian Culberman's piece, apparently the first 100 were the defining episodes because I was not together.

01:18:43Marc:Boomer lives!

01:18:47Boomer lives!