Episode 447 - John Heffron
Marc:all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck heads that's a bad one that is not friendly it is what the fuck's giving that doesn't even work
Marc:Is that a lot of profanity for Thanksgiving?
Marc:Is it?
Marc:Are you listening on Thanksgiving?
Marc:Happy Thanksgiving.
Marc:Perhaps this is a respite, a moment of reprieve from the emotional turmoil that is going on pre-food or post-food.
Marc:Perhaps you're walking away from the house in a huff.
Marc:Thinking, why did I come home?
Marc:Why do I have to be from these people?
Marc:Why am I of this family?
Marc:Oh my God, I should be over this.
Marc:I'm a grown person.
Marc:Why do they push my buttons?
Marc:Just take a breath.
Marc:It's okay.
Marc:You don't have to go back to the house right now.
Marc:Just take another walk around the block.
Marc:Relax.
Marc:You've eaten a lot.
Marc:You're not thinking straight.
Marc:Perhaps you've had some drinks, some cocktails, thinking that would ease the anxiety of being at home with your family.
Marc:Perhaps you're driving away for good.
Marc:I'd like to talk to that person right now, the person that was at Thanksgiving meal maybe a half an hour ago and just said, fuck it, this is it.
Marc:I'm done with this shit.
Marc:And you're in your car and you don't know where you're going.
Marc:It's okay, man.
Marc:Just drive as far as you got to drive to get your shit level.
Marc:Do you understand?
Marc:That's what Thanksgiving is about.
Marc:Maybe if you're in that car right now and you're thinking like, I don't know where I'm going to go, but I'm done with it.
Marc:I'm done with it.
Marc:And perhaps you've just thrown your phone out the window.
Marc:But you haven't because there'd be no way to listen to me in the car without your phone or without an iPod.
Marc:So let's assume you've still got your electronic device because you're listening to me.
Marc:And I'm telling you this.
Marc:Don't throw the phone out the window because then you're really fucked.
Marc:I know you've made a big decision here.
Marc:You've turned your back on your life, on your family, on Thanksgiving Day.
Marc:It's awkward.
Marc:People are going to be upset.
Marc:Police are going to be called soon.
Marc:But don't throw the phone away until you're really sure.
Marc:that this is what you wanna do, because once you throw that phone away, you can't tweet, there's no Facebooking, there's no FaceTiming, there's no texting, hey, I fucked up, I'm coming back now, I'm only two hours away, none of that.
Marc:Then what happens is you make a decision, and then you're like, where the fuck did I throw that phone away?
Marc:So your big decision to get freedom and clear mind and make a huge change in your life just turns out to be you along the side of the road within three or four mile radius looking for your fucking iPhone.
Marc:Is that the way you want to spend the rest of your afternoon?
Marc:I don't think so.
Marc:So I say, you know, take a breath, relax, realize that you don't have to live with those people that you just drove away from.
Marc:And that's really going to be OK.
Marc:You know, you'll fly home, you know.
Marc:What, Friday, maybe tomorrow, maybe Saturday?
Marc:You deal with it.
Marc:Perhaps if you're really at home, why don't you drive around and go around to where you went to high school?
Marc:Take a look at that.
Marc:Go see some of the kids you grew up with if you're in that type of situation.
Marc:And then what you experience is, hey, hey, I'm still alive.
Marc:Hey, it's Thanksgiving.
Marc:Perhaps I should be grateful for what I have.
Marc:If you're alive and things are okay,
Marc:There's something to be grateful for.
Marc:Look, I know it's hard, man.
Marc:I mean, you're the one who drove off after Thanksgiving in a huff because your dad slash mom slash kid slash wife slash husband slash aunt said something that rubbed you the wrong way.
Marc:You're a fuck this.
Marc:I'm out of here.
Marc:But you're awake and you're alive and there's things to be grateful for.
Marc:Have you heard of the gratitude list idea?
Marc:Hey, I don't want to push spiritual mumbo jumbo on anybody because God knows I am godless.
Marc:But maybe this is the day.
Marc:Maybe this is the day you make a list.
Marc:Hey...
Marc:Instead of the pros and cons of attempting suicide, what I'm grateful for.
Marc:I've got my health.
Marc:I'm still capable of talking.
Marc:I can walk.
Marc:I can eat what I want generally.
Marc:I have friends in my life.
Marc:I'm doing okay.
Marc:All that shit.
Marc:Right?
Marc:Am I right?
Marc:Come on, it's Thanksgiving.
Marc:And you're full.
Marc:And you're letting it determine your decisions.
Marc:Just relax.
Marc:Did I mention I got John Heffron on the show today?
Marc:Some of you may not know John Heffron.
Marc:How many different ways am I going to pronounce his last name?
Marc:John Heffron.
Marc:He was on Last Comic Standing.
Marc:He's come a long way.
Marc:He's a road dog.
Marc:And he's a funny guy and he's a sweet guy.
Marc:And I never really talked to him before we sat down and had this conversation.
Marc:It's an interesting conversation because, look, I know some people think we talk about making a sausage.
Marc:That's the phrase they use.
Marc:I was very excited when I heard that phrase, when I heard that poetic analogy for behind the scenes.
Marc:How the sausage is made.
Marc:Well, I don't feel like we do much of that, but it turns out that me and John got off on a sort of a tear, sort of a behind, you know, inside baseball sort of riff on what it's like to be a comic.
Marc:And I had no idea how much I think about it.
Marc:I had no idea how much I think about the nuts and bolts of it and how, you know, over time, you don't get into something with a system.
Marc:Who the fuck gets into something?
Marc:You think you have a system when you start.
Marc:You know, it's like, I got these jokes and I'm going to go up there for that five minutes.
Marc:I'm going to do a thing.
Marc:But when you do it half your life.
Marc:and everything is by trial and error, you're much more acutely aware of a craft that you may not even think about on a day-to-day basis.
Marc:And me and Heffron get into it.
Marc:So if you're a comic, this is a pretty good episode to listen to.
Marc:And I'm not tooting my own horn.
Marc:It's just that we talked like a couple of old comics about very nuanced stuff.
Marc:In terms of how we do what we do.
Marc:If you're not a comic, I think you'll find it interesting because it was just it was just two comics talking about, you know, what we're up against, how we handle it and what we do and what we plan and what we don't plan and how we approach it.
Marc:And like I said, we don't do much of this.
Marc:I don't think I talk a lot inside baseball at all, actually.
Marc:Some of you may not realize, maybe you do realize, that there are guys out there that do comedy as a job.
Marc:It's a job.
Marc:There's plenty of guys out there that you may not know, you may not have heard of, that are out there working every week.
Marc:They're doing boats.
Marc:They're doing corporates.
Marc:They're doing clubs you've never heard of.
Marc:And that's what they do.
Marc:They they don't.
Marc:They're not necessarily TV stars.
Marc:Maybe that didn't happen.
Marc:Maybe they didn't try.
Marc:Maybe they expected to happen.
Marc:It didn't happen.
Marc:Or maybe they're just comics and that's their job.
Marc:There's plenty of work for guys who just do the job in Vegas.
Marc:For functions on boats and stuff.
Marc:And that that's part of the comedy life that a lot of people don't talk about.
Marc:There are real road guys out there that have been at it forever.
Marc:Granted, many of them had opportunities or they didn't have opportunities or things didn't quite work out.
Marc:But when it comes right down to it, that's what they committed their life to.
Marc:That's that's their job.
Marc:And they're great at it.
Marc:I was watching Billy Gardell's, he's got a new showcase show on Showtime, Road Comics, and it was great to see.
Marc:The guys that he has on, because some of them I know, but no one else would know them.
Marc:They're just great comics that just do the job of comedy without necessarily the fanfare or the TV credits or the attention that the comics that you know have.
Marc:They're out there doing the job.
Marc:And John's one of those guys.
Marc:So it's sort of an interesting conversation about that, just about the job of the stand-up comic.
Marc:All right, so let's talk to John Heffron.
Marc:I think we're coming into this conversation.
Marc:We were chatting about David Sedaris.
Marc:And listen and experience a couple of comics talking shop.
Marc:And don't be afraid to chime in, comics.
Marc:Feel free to enter the conversation, even though we can't hear you, but feel free to do that.
Marc:So let's talk to John Heffron.
Guest:.
Guest:I have a buddy that knows him, and they were talking stand-up, and he was like, I could never do it.
Guest:I'm like, what?
Marc:You do do it, right?
Guest:I know, and he does it better than most stand-ups.
Marc:Well, I think he sees himself as, you know, he goes up there and he, uh...
Marc:You know, he reads his bits.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a little easier.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Just his writing, though.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You know, just getting laughs.
Guest:Like, I mean, it's so good.
Marc:I know.
Marc:It's so solid.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:If we could just go up and read our bits.
Marc:I know, right?
Marc:Yeah, and just kind of wait it out.
Marc:I think there's sort of like a protection in that.
Marc:Like, it's obviously he's a great writer.
Marc:Right.
Marc:But, I mean, if you're going up there and going like, okay, now here's my presentation.
Marc:I'm going to read my things.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's, yeah, thought out and stuff.
Guest:Because, I mean...
Guest:I'm trying to write a book.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I know you just wrote yours.
Guest:And boy, it's funny how when you put stuff on paper to read-read, it's not near as funny as it is just when you say it on stage.
Guest:It's trickier, right?
Guest:Yeah, because I get all my shows transcribed now.
Guest:You do?
Guest:For the book?
Guest:Or just in general, because I've never written a joke down in my entire life.
Guest:I'm the same way, dude.
Guest:I never sat down and went, all right, here we go.
Guest:Going to do something funny about buses.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Never.
Guest:It's always been on stage.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Me too.
Guest:So I get it transcribed, and then I get it sent back to me.
Guest:That's just the lazy guy way to do it.
Guest:And then I read it and go, this all sucks.
Guest:I know, because- This all- What am I even doing?
Guest:I should- Is UPS hiring?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Because I suck.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, but-
Marc:Well, that's the thing about performing is like, you don't know how much you're getting away with just by pacing, timing.
Marc:I mean, you read some jokes and it's like, all right, there's the punchline.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Boom.
Marc:That's it.
Marc:That's where the laugh comes.
Marc:But I'm the same as you.
Marc:I watch my stuff.
Marc:I look at my stuff on paper.
Marc:I'm like, how does this even get laughs?
Guest:Or how much of it is personality driven?
Guest:Right.
Guest:You know, like, so if I go to, if I have people in the audience who know who I am and have seen my stuff before.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I get a little bit of street cred with him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So I can get away with just being the John Heffern guy who's on stage.
Guest:But if you've never met me before, that little cutesy little whatever I do on stage doesn't pass.
Guest:The cutesy thing.
Guest:The charming thing.
Guest:Yeah, that thing.
Marc:The trick.
Guest:Nah, yeah, none.
Guest:The trick of presenting material.
Guest:Or I do it like if you perform, like if you have a cold or a sore throat, then I realize, man, this joke only got a laugh because I was loud when I was saying the punchline.
Guest:You know, when you don't have the vocal.
Marc:Absolutely.
Guest:I'm like, wow, this joke doesn't hit the merit test because I don't scream.
Guest:Right.
Guest:But like it's definitely.
Guest:Yeah, you deliver it.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Attitude.
Guest:Take away.
Guest:You have a sore throat.
Guest:You're like, OK, my hands are tied for that one, too.
Marc:So what does that say to you?
Marc:I mean, what do you what do you do about that?
Marc:I mean, outside of just be insecure about it.
Marc:I mean, it's a weird moment where you realize, like, oh, my God, I'm just it's all personality.
Marc:yeah yeah it's uh i don't i i wish i could say then i change it up and try to make it better i just go okay well i guess i guess just joke could be funnier once my throat comes back yeah no but when you're looking at it transcribed or you're working on writing a book i mean is there do you do are you because i found when i was looking at my stuff right some of the stuff that was transcribed or some of the stuff that was bits is that you can definitely make it better on the page
Marc:I mean, I don't know if you'll bring that back up on stage with you, but you can add shit.
Guest:I remember when I first, my like first tonight show, Larry Miller, you know, said write out all your stuff, write out the bit and then exactly how you say it and then look through every word and go, okay, why am I, why does it take me four words to get to this when I could just get right there?
Marc:Oh, he did tell you that?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Did that help you?
Guest:So I did that, and then it edited it.
Guest:Yeah, and that was probably the cleanest set I've ever done in my life, because I've never done that again.
Guest:So it just, there's a lot of- It worked, though.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But you didn't do it again.
Guest:But then that's too much work involved.
Guest:Now you're asking me to-
Marc:no that's a little i mean i've never been one of those guys i've always been kind of long-winded storyteller ego yeah me too but i mean what but i'm i'm constantly hard on myself about it too because i constantly think like i should have more punch lines i could be more efficient you know why am i you know why don't i just you know do this right well what have you come up with why don't you just do it are we just fucking lazy or
Guest:I know I am.
Guest:I'll say that.
Guest:But, you know, lately in the last maybe year or two, I've done a lot more stuff with my show as far as all the other elements besides actually... What, pyrotechnics?
Guest:I do pyrotechnics.
Guest:I jump in from the ceiling.
Guest:I have dancers.
Guest:You ever have... Your bit really kills when you have actually dancers dancing.
Marc:He's on a wire.
Guest:He's flying on a wire amongst the dancers.
Guest:But just as far as, you know...
Guest:stage movement in in kind of you know anchoring certain parts of the stage for different acts and in tone that i do with my voice like i'm really getting into that stuff which it may not make any difference at all but in my head i think i'm doing some jedi ninja stuff so wait you move over here like i'm gonna deliver this stage right i'm gonna i'm gonna i do yeah because uh yes
Guest:Okay, so... I mean, not that scripted.
Guest:No, I get you.
Guest:But I have an area of the stage, which is my new area.
Guest:So if I'm trying new stuff, I'll go stand over there.
Marc:It's kind of like a safety zone.
Marc:But is that a random decision or have you decided like, well, that zone is better for new stuff?
Marc:I've I've determined that area is better for new stuff.
Guest:Is this a superstitious?
Guest:I went I had some time off which I never really do and I went to a Two-week long speaker training.
Guest:I've done stand-up for 23 years in this I went to this thing about two years ago and now what compelled you I
Guest:I have friends that do a lot of that type of training.
Marc:Okay, so this is sort of like, why can't I be a speaker, too?
Guest:Yeah, and I do a lot of corporate events now, and then I want to start doing some, like, keynote speeches at colleges just to kind of broaden the case I disappear from clubs.
Guest:At least this way I'm not homeless.
Marc:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:Because, I mean, I thought about that, too.
Marc:It's sort of like, you know, I mean, it's one thing getting NACA dates.
Marc:You know, and doing college dates for 12-year-olds or you're just performing for the kids that can't get off campus.
Marc:But the speaking engagement, that's a whole different thing.
Guest:It changed up because, you know, 20 years ago, I was doing a bazillion NACA shows.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now I'm 43.
Guest:I don't have a lot to say to an 18-year-old.
Marc:Other than like, go back.
Marc:Don't plan ahead.
Guest:Yeah, I mean, and there's material.
Guest:I think, you know, as you get older as a comic, there's chunks of material you do at certain ages.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:20-year-old comics will do the same, hey, so was that a bar?
Guest:How come you don't get...
Guest:I went to a gay bar and how come no one, you know, you have stuff that hovers around that age.
Marc:Right, right.
Guest:And then when you grow past that and then you get in your 30s, there's jokes and material that's in the air.
Guest:Things are starting to get darker.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And by the time you're in your 50s, then you get political.
Marc:For political, your idealism is completely crushed and you're just cranky.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:You're not doing that, but, you know, because every young guy has that bit about, so, I mean, I got nothing to do after the show.
Guest:What's a good place to go?
Guest:Where they're fishing for bars to go to after the show.
Guest:Right, right, right.
Guest:Boy, wouldn't you do stuff differently on pot than not?
Guest:That's true, man.
Marc:That's true.
Marc:Well, it's interesting.
Marc:We'll get back to the public speaking thing in a minute.
Marc:Because you think about those guys.
Marc:I know guys.
Marc:You know guys that built their primary audience out of kids.
Marc:And then 10 years down the line, those kids are gone.
Marc:They're not going out.
Marc:They got families.
Marc:They got jobs.
Marc:They're gone.
Marc:It's over.
Guest:I always say maybe just a phase I'm going through.
Guest:It's kind of, remember that song?
Guest:I think it's one of the saddest songs in the history of the world.
Guest:Is that Puff the Magic Dragon?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Poor Puff is hanging out with little Jackie Putt, and they're hanging out, and they're friends, and the kid's coming over and stuff, and then one day that kid doesn't show up anymore.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And then poor Puff is sitting in the cave going, what the... And he screams, he lets out a big...
Guest:i sometimes think that way with comics if you hang out in that one area of cave puffing yeah and you know kids will show up for a second but then what happens is yeah they get older yeah well that dragon's kind of creepy he never leaves the cave you wanted us to watch porn the last time we wrote yeah it's weird he's like just rub my inner thoughts yeah um
Guest:Yeah, so, and I've always just, as a comic, you know, I don't want to be that second show Saturday, where are my tequila drinkers?
Guest:Oh, dude.
Guest:At a certain age, you know, so there's a risk.
Guest:Terrifying, terrifying.
Guest:I've always talked about whatever was going on in my life in that time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So now, I'm 43, I have 43-year-old problems.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:20-year-olds maybe can't relate to that yet.
Guest:So I sometimes have my managers go, he always gives an example of Carlin versus Robert Klein.
Guest:Klein always talked about what's going on in his age, and then his crowd eventually dies off, right?
Guest:Well, Carlin stayed...
Guest:observational completely and then so college kids always kind of came into him because he was this ranty yeah whatever cranky old uncle there's a fine line the cool professor or i just you know i end up in branson missouri and i have a nice 1 p.m show and i perform for old people which would be my age you do a clean act yeah you can or yeah i always have really since i was 18. no filth what you
Guest:I mean, I swear, but the bits that I do aren't dirty.
Marc:Let's talk about this public speaking thing.
Marc:So you're like, all right, I need a plan B. I'd like to have another option.
Marc:Right.
Marc:Right.
Marc:So what did they teach you there?
Marc:What was that like?
Marc:Who goes to those things?
Guest:uh like business people yeah i was in with with people from around the world like ceos and stuff like that just want to get their chops together to get in front of people and then and then the deal with this two-week program is then you put together your ted talk so you went through this two-week intensive and then at the end of the two weeks you had 20 minutes of really polished did they call it a ted talk or that's just 20 minute 20 minutes that that's what you know yeah yeah yeah
Guest:um because for some weird reason i doing one of those type talks is like on my radar i would really like to you want to be a ted talker but if you see those those guys that kill that that's a tough because i just look at the comments yeah and i don't know if i could handle that don't ever look at comments oh it's anywhere ever i get it all yeah don't don't look at them you know there's no winning that i turn that off of my my maybe you should do a ted talk about comments comment boards
Guest:About those people who put one stars on book reviews.
Guest:Who the fuck are those people?
Guest:How bad was your dad not around that you feel that you got to go, well, I've heard a lot of this stuff before.
Marc:I've never left a comment in my life.
Marc:Who does that?
Marc:I don't know.
Marc:I mean, look, I'm grateful for Yelp comments.
Marc:When we go to a restaurant, I could get that Yelp comment.
Marc:But just to fucking dump shit on some guy's five minutes or 15 minutes, it's like, shut the fuck up.
Guest:I like when I get, sometimes I'll get tweets and stuff saying people suck.
Guest:I would never come and see you.
Guest:And I'm like, who?
Guest:Let's say there's a band you don't like.
Guest:Would you go to their website, look at their tour schedule and go, hey, Nickelback, I see you're coming to Cleveland.
Guest:I just want to let you know I will not be there.
Guest:Count me out.
Guest:Who has that kind of time?
Marc:I don't get it.
Marc:We have that kind of time, but we choose not to do that.
Guest:We choose not to write our jokes.
Guest:It was hard.
Guest:When I was on Last Comic, that's when I probably got the most because it's just a numbers game.
Guest:I'm exposed to millions of people.
Marc:Well, let's get into that in a second.
Marc:So you're going to have a billion people saying new stuff.
Marc:Yeah, you're inviting yourself to it.
Marc:Yeah, they have a website that is encouraging people to fucking do that, which is probably one of the big problems with the commenting and troll culture in general is that you have these fucking shows.
Marc:They want people to go to their website.
Marc:So they're literally saying, you know, say something.
Marc:And any of it's like, okay, fuck you.
Marc:Who's not going to do that?
Guest:All right, so what do you learn at this public speaking thing?
Guest:Anchor certain parts of the stage.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:And then this is where you came up with the new joke part of this.
Guest:Well, I do a thing in my act.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well, I talk to younger guys and kind of give them some advice of what's going to happen to them as they get older.
Guest:Not doing a bit, but right.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I learned, and I never did this before, where I would kind of, with one of my hands, I would point young guys.
Guest:And every time I would talk about young guys with my left hand, I would kind of literally point to the ground over here.
Guest:And then when I talk about getting older, I would point the opposite way.
Guest:Well, then I was doing my stuff.
Guest:And when I go, well, young guys, what you're not going to realize.
Guest:And I just started walking over to the older part of the stage, which I didn't.
Guest:That got a laugh.
Marc:Right.
Guest:So then it kind of.
Guest:Consistently?
Guest:yeah okay taught me that i i could skip a lot of words by just going over there sure i've already i've already mentally old guys right i've already mentally told you anytime i'm over there yeah yeah i'm going and then i started doing stuff where because when i talk about being married if i talk about going to bars and stuff then i always have women after the show going why are you at a bar and you're married because they're not paying attention right i was right so now when i go and stand in the young guy area yeah
Guest:Then I'm free to be whatever.
Marc:Oh, I get it.
Marc:It's kind of in your mind.
Marc:It works and it seems to be getting the response.
Guest:And you know what?
Guest:And it's just maybe honestly, it's just for me.
Guest:And sometimes if I think, oh, that worked because I pointed over there, that just makes it more interesting for me on stage.
Guest:We've got to have our things.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:It really, it could be all just horse shit, but just for me, it gets me excited to go, oh, okay.
Marc:Yeah, they're like magic talisman.
Marc:They're sort of like, it's like carrying a magic marble, you know?
Marc:You know, you know, you know, it's something that gets your brain.
Marc:If your brain focuses on that, then yeah, then it works.
Guest:Or I'll do stuff if I, you know, you learned some hand movements.
Guest:um that tell a story they do that is that the ones who teach politicians to always do that weird you know holding the pen business there's all it's always emphasis or or like your tone like i do this anyway but i think some of the good comics are the conversational ones that the voices will get you know start off like this yeah and then all of a sudden the voices will get really crazy right and then they drop it here
Marc:And one of the things that I learned at this thing, now they didn't use this example, but... The Gene Wilder system, the Sam Cousin system, the Brian Regan system.
Guest:Yeah, well, you have three different people at a show.
Guest:This is how I thought of it.
Guest:You have drunk people, which is the middle.
Guest:You have pot people, which is below, and then coke people.
Guest:If you hang out in one of those areas too long, you're going to lose the other two.
Marc:Well, if you hang out in the Coke area too long, you're going to lose everything.
Guest:Yeah, you're going to be gone everywhere.
Guest:Yeah, that's exactly.
Guest:It's all going to be gone if you're there for too long.
Guest:Now, you can hit that area for just a second or two.
Guest:Sure, sure.
Guest:But be a responsible adult and just go back down.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So you've got it broken down into drug tiers.
Guest:Yeah, that's how, they didn't explain it to me that way, but that's for what I do for a living.
Marc:They weren't telling corporate CEOs.
Marc:Yeah, listen, you can have a bunch of people on coke.
Marc:There's pot, there's booze, and there's coke.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:So I got to assume that when you go into something like this, you're ahead of the curve.
Marc:You public speak for a living, and you do it intuitively.
Guest:Some things I was awesome at.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Other things I sucked beyond belief.
Guest:As a comic, what did you suck beyond belief at?
Guest:Believe it or not, I got busted a lot from my eye contact.
Guest:Couldn't look at people?
Guest:Couldn't look at the audience?
Guest:Yeah, I would bounce around.
Marc:My eyes were always darting instead of finding one person and just... I find one person all the time, and they end up getting uncomfortable.
Marc:You can't do that as a stand-up.
Marc:That's the difference.
Marc:Yeah, look to the back of the room, spread it around.
Marc:You know what I mean?
Guest:Yeah, and then they also taught us, as I'm thinking of random stuff about...
Guest:crowds what happens to a crowd the phases now this is more for speaking and let's say businessy but yeah crowds what happens to them and then how in every whatever number of people there's a subconscious group leader and that person is leading that group whether they know it or not so let's say it's somebody in the left stage left that is just scowling the whole time not enjoying themselves yeah they have more people are tuned into the person not laughing depending on what the dynamic of the group is
Guest:So you find those group leaders, or if there are problems, then you go after that person and try to de-ball that group leader.
Guest:They said de-ball at the public speaking?
Guest:They didn't say that.
Guest:See, I've edged it up a little bit.
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:But that's something we know intuitively.
Marc:I know that shit intuitively.
Marc:I mean, I'll go into a room before the show starts, before the fucking opener goes on, and just feel it.
Marc:And I'll be like, that table, that table.
Yeah.
Guest:I've been off, one time I remember like literally stereotypical leather vest biker guys come in and I was like, oh boy, here we go.
Guest:They don't say a word to teachers from Ohio.
Guest:Those two chicks don't shut up the entire time.
Marc:Oh, yeah, I've been wrong.
Marc:I've been wrong.
Marc:But a lot of times those guys, it's just a cockfight.
Marc:You know, sometimes with those guys who, you know, are bad seeds, they just want to be, you know, you just got to hand them their ass for a second, you know, fucking be diplomatic.
Marc:But, you know, women who don't shut up, then there's no, I don't know.
Guest:I think most comedy clubs, I think, should have a big lesbian bouncer.
Guest:It's a thing that they don't have.
Guest:For an all-around lesbian bouncer.
Guest:Just to deal with the women.
Guest:Because I think women are more problems statistically, I think, than guys.
Guest:So it'd be nice just to have that.
Guest:Because girls are untouchable.
Guest:You know the male bouncer isn't going to do anything.
Marc:You can't win.
Marc:Yeah, you can't.
Guest:But you kind of get a girl in there.
Guest:I think it kind of changes up.
Marc:That's a good idea.
Marc:Somebody they call in.
Marc:Yeah, like we need a special lesbian bouncer.
Marc:Yeah, just come in.
Marc:A lot of earrings, short hair.
Marc:So outside of learning this sort of stage positioning and stuff like that, what else, you know, how did it change your act, this speaking thing?
Marc:I'm just curious for my own.
Marc:You know what it is to me?
Guest:It's kind of like if I'm a huge music guy, well, sometimes when you listen to songs, you're like, I love that song.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:For whatever reason, you hear something different in that song.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:you know like you didn't hear the bass line right you're like holy fuck oh my god that's a great but you've liked a song the entire time i think a lot of times doing some of this stuff makes for a better song even though people might not notice it it's a better show it's uh it's sort of like honing your craft it's like getting some new tools you know doing being aware of what you're you know let's say with the tone thing yeah um
Guest:You know, matching the tone of the person who was on before you or starting off normal.
Marc:You don't want to match ever, really, do you?
Guest:Well... You just got to take the hit, don't you?
Guest:I mean, you know... I've done stuff well, and they showed... Now, it's not all, like I said, it's not all... There's no scientific.
Guest:This is all just kind of... Where if whatever goes on in front of you, let's say if somebody is crushing with a certain, you know...
Guest:fucking the chair yeah maintenance that you almost go up and you take that that persona the second you get on for and i'm talking for seconds i know i know but i i've had experience with that and then and then go off onto you you know right i mean i've done it at a lot of corporate events like if if i get let's say intros to get the ceo was up there and he's going ladies and gentlemen this guy's on the tonight show right on heffron right that
Guest:And then I get up, hey, what's up, everybody?
Guest:Everyone's like, yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Guest:So then I'll get on and go, hey, everybody, nice.
Guest:And I'll almost match the person who was talking for just a second or two.
Guest:And then I'll.
Marc:Yeah, because I think that way seems reasonable.
Marc:But the other way, if some guy's fucking a chair and the audience is jumping up and down,
Marc:I'd rather just go up there and, you know, just fucking take it all the way down to zero.
Guest:Or this is what I learned.
Guest:Like I said, I'll only say it one more time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:This all could be bullshit.
Guest:All right.
Guest:But this is just for me.
Guest:If somebody is on stage and they're doing something that is just, you know, has a weird vibe.
Guest:right and they were standing and they were standing and just you know your center right in front of the mic just whatever yeah i'll take that mic in the stand and i'll stand on the corner yeah i'll stand sure completely different than how they work to let the audience know this is a different person that's smart yeah i think i've done that but a lot of stuff feels intuitive to me yeah yeah that's pretty decisive
Marc:you just mix it you know make it weirder like whatever they did you can just erase very you know casually yes right all right so what would you write this talk on what do you what do you see your talk is i don't know i gave up i literally i went to the station and then i was i was that was my biggest problem the entire thing is what is my what's your ted talk what's my what's what's my thing yeah and you didn't you you gave up i gave up
Guest:Well, what if it was about, you know, the art... Well, that's why the book that I'm working on... Is someone paying you for doing this?
Guest:I'm doing it all myself, man.
Guest:How's that going?
Guest:Because I'm at a weird thing where I'm not...
Guest:I mean, I had like fame for maybe 11 minutes.
Guest:That sounds like the title of a great TED Talk.
Marc:Fame for 11 minutes.
Guest:I had it.
Guest:It was running.
Guest:I got the ball.
Guest:It hit my chest.
Guest:And I ran about maybe five yards.
Guest:And then it got stripped.
Guest:Exactly.
Guest:You know what happened.
Guest:I don't know what happened.
Guest:It got stripped.
Guest:It didn't get stripped.
Guest:It didn't get stripped.
Guest:It just...
Guest:Petered out?
Guest:Petered out.
Marc:Well, I mean, I had a good run, and I still have a good run.
Marc:All right, let's talk about that, and then I think we're going to put together a TED Talk by the end of this discussion.
All right, perfect.
Marc:I loved it.
Marc:So the humble beginnings, I mean, where did you come from?
Marc:Because, look, honestly, I think I've seen you maybe once.
Marc:I don't think we've met really, maybe once.
Marc:We were on a flight in Montreal last year.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:That was it.
Marc:But, you know, you've been doing it 20-some-odd years.
Marc:23, yeah.
Marc:You know, I've been doing it a quarter century.
Marc:I like to say that now.
Marc:Quarter century.
Marc:Wow, yeah.
Marc:Yeah, so how did we miss each other?
Guest:Yeah, I started... My entire career, I never had a clique or a gang.
Guest:That's the one regret.
Guest:Well, what city were you in?
Guest:I started in Detroit.
Guest:So Detroit, 23 years ago, there was no clique.
Marc:Exactly.
Guest:Right.
Guest:So when I started doing stand-up, I was in college.
Guest:I was 18.
Guest:Where?
Guest:You lived in Detroit?
Guest:Suburb.
Guest:No one lives in Detroit.
Guest:Yeah, I know, but like which suburb?
Guest:I grew up right around Ann Arbor.
Guest:That's a great city.
Guest:So there was a comedy club in Ann Arbor.
Marc:The Main Street Comedy Club.
Marc:Exactly.
Marc:With Steeple.
Marc:Teeple.
Marc:Kirkland Teeple.
Marc:Kirkland Teeple, he died, right?
Marc:Yeah, yeah.
Marc:What happened?
Marc:He killed himself.
Marc:Yeah, I mean, he did that like 10 years ago.
Marc:Right, and he had a wife, right?
Marc:Mm-hmm, wife and kids.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I remember her, kinda.
Guest:Yeah, I kind of did.
Guest:I don't know if I'd be able to pick her out, but I remember.
Guest:So I was a huge stand-up comedy fan.
Guest:My mom would buy me comedy cassette tapes, and I would listen to it.
Guest:Then I'd ask her about it, and if it was too dirty, she would go, oh, you'll get that when you get older.
Guest:So I was a huge fan.
Guest:And then, I'm going to sound like an old guy, but this is pre-Comedy Central.
Guest:So none of my other friends were into stand-up.
Guest:It just...
Guest:Eddie Murphy came along maybe a little bit later.
Guest:Right, right.
Guest:So I would go to an open mic because it was... At Main Street?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I think it was free to get in.
Guest:And you were 18?
Guest:And I was 18.
Guest:So I would just go and just watch.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I would go every week because I just loved Santa.
Guest:And that was a great sort of basement.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Low ceiling, dank, smart, like... Brown club.
Marc:It was dark in there.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:yeah university of michigan really smart girl so then a waitress whose section we sat in all the time because she was hot goes are you guys ever going to go on stage and then i just said yeah probably next week like just because now you got this hot girl is whatever so then i signed up and went on stage next week that waitress though by the way was uh lucy lu from charlie's angels fame
Guest:no yeah which was weird because if i ran into her there's no way she would know who i was there's just no way what she was going to school there she's going to school just a waitress you know waitress so you've never you never called her out no i there'd be so weird because she literally without knowing it shoved my every person in my life everything that i've accomplished or whatever was because she said are you going up next week
Guest:That's it.
Guest:That was as much contact as we ever had.
Guest:But she just gave that little shot.
Guest:Yeah, to show you, to impress you.
Marc:And then I think she quit like two weeks later.
Marc:I never talked to her.
Marc:How did you know it was her?
Marc:You knew her name?
Marc:Did you put that together later?
Guest:Yeah, because she was gorgeous.
Guest:And you just saw her.
Guest:So then when I think she was on some Xena princess show like a million years ago.
Marc:You're like, holy shit.
Marc:That was that waitress.
Marc:Oh, my God.
Marc:Do you have validation on that?
Marc:Is it true?
Guest:Oh, yeah, 100% it was.
Guest:Oh, my God.
Guest:Yeah, that's great.
Guest:Yeah, so I started doing open mics, and then in Michigan at the time, so there wasn't really a clique.
Guest:I mean, there were some guys who were performing at University of Michigan, like the Sklar Brothers, a bunch of writers who were on Conan, Rich Eisen.
Guest:They were like that group, but I really didn't hang out with them.
Guest:And in Michigan,
Guest:if you were good at emceeing or somewhat funny there was at the time there was a lot of work right so pretty quick I went right to emceeing and I paid my way through college just hosting one nighters a lot of one nighters and then some weekend rooms but I worked probably almost every week going through college just hosting
Guest:Just driving, what, anywhere from 10 to 300 miles?
Guest:I remember driving from Ypsilanti, where I went to Eastern Michigan, driving to Cleveland, hosting, which is a three-, four-hour drive, and then driving back that night to go to class.
Marc:And who were you opening for?
Marc:Touring Headliners, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:You remember, guys?
Guest:Everybody.
Guest:Seeing guys early on.
Guest:Yeah, a lot of like... I mean... Killer Bs?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's a couple guys that I remember to this day because they yelled at me for giving them not the intro that they wanted.
Guest:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Who were they?
Guest:This one guy, you know, Jerry Grossman.
Guest:He was called the Human Jukebox.
Guest:I remember him.
Guest:I still remember his intro because keep in mind, I'm 105 pounds, 18 years old, and this grown man is yelling at me because I literally didn't say, and I'll never forget the band's name, he opened for Spyro Gyra, and I didn't say T-Rex.
Guest:I still remember the band that he didn't say.
Marc:He opened for T-Rex.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:That's a big, that's better than Spyrogyra.
Guest:And he just got all over me going, you will read my intro the way it is written.
Guest:That's beautiful.
Guest:And it just, you know, scared me.
Guest:I was, you know, I mean, I was a kid.
Guest:I was just like, oh.
Marc:Yeah, it's like Jimmy Walker's story about fucking up Wilson Pickett's intro.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So it was a lot of those type of guys.
Guest:You know, road guys.
Guest:Really bad road guys.
Guest:But at the time, they were headliners.
Guest:I didn't know that they were really bad road guys.
Marc:Well, at that time, it was a huge, weird, booming road comedy business.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Not a lot of TV.
Marc:Those dudes would never come into the coasts.
Marc:They would just go, you know, they would just do all the rooms.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I did that all through college.
Guest:Then when I graduated from college- A degree in what?
Guest:Communications.
Guest:When I graduated from college, now I have a whopping four or five years experience, but I was 21 years old.
Guest:And then I was doing 200 colleges a year.
Guest:Making good money.
Guest:At the time, I think I was making like 750 bucks plus travel.
Marc:That's a lot of bread, yeah.
Guest:With no TV for a 21-year-old.
Guest:Hell yeah.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I did that, and I did that for a couple years.
Guest:So now I have six or seven years experience.
Guest:And I think right around then I did Evening at the Improv.
Guest:Right.
Guest:That's how old school.
Marc:Like what, early 90s?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I did that.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then... Did you feel that was a big break?
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:I did with like Bill Maher was the host.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:And I flew to LA.
Guest:And if you watch it, I'm wearing brown and black, like the worst outfit.
Marc:And I did even... You went down to Santa Monica to that Improv, right?
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then I think somewhere after that, then I got a little bit more road stuff.
Guest:What did your parents think of this, though?
Guest:I didn't tell my parents I was doing stand-up.
Guest:I worked at a grocery store at the time.
Guest:And then my dad comes to me and goes, are you doing stand-up?
Guest:Because I'm a pretty quiet guy.
Guest:So I was never the theater guy.
Guest:I was never any of that.
Guest:And then he'd go, are you doing stand-up comedy?
Guest:And I go, oh, yeah, I'm just doing open mics.
Marc:And you're already touring on weekends?
Marc:Or what?
Guest:This was a little bit before.
Marc:Okay, okay.
Guest:Before that, yes, is how I... And then I don't know if I did the Tonight Show.
Guest:But what did he say?
Guest:Then they came and told me.
Guest:And never, you know, like, never not supportive, any of them.
Guest:What did he do?
Guest:My dad worked at UPS.
Guest:He was a truck driver.
Marc:Oh, yeah?
Guest:Yeah, retired, worked at UPS.
Marc:Retired with a pension, spent the whole time at UPS.
Guest:And now he drives old people to malls and stuff in vans, so he has going to VFW Hall beer money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Just one of those guys.
Marc:Is it his own business, or is
Guest:No, he just works for the city.
Guest:Saved 10% of everything he made the entire time.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Maxed out his 401k.
Guest:Did it right.
Guest:Me, making that kind of money as 20 spent it all.
Guest:I've spent every money that I've ever made.
Guest:You know what I mean?
Guest:Like at what point do you go, let's be smarter about this.
Guest:Soon.
Guest:Soon.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Marc:A couple years ago, John.
Marc:It's clicking.
Marc:So you started as an opener, and then you featured, and then you headlined?
Guest:Yeah, and then I worked with Jeff Garland in Ann Arbor, and he said- He came in from Chicago.
Guest:Yeah, and he goes, if you say the word, I think he would write words down, and said, you have to say this in your act when you get on stage.
Guest:Garland right because I remember him going at the time he's like you're a funny kid that people I was like early early 20s he goes but don't get in a habit of saying the same stuff every single like so when you get on stage I'll never forget the word he goes you have because I'm always super clean at the time yeah you have to say titty yeah on stage the next time he goes believe the Garland system
Guest:you took the garland advice and then he goes if you say titty on on stage i will get you a week at the chicago improv his uh walter gertz owned his uncle owned the club at the time is that true yeah this was a lot so i did it and he said okay and he fulfilled this thing so i got a week at the chicago improv went to chicago well what happened when he said titty did a magic happen
Guest:I think I did like Conway twit titty.
Guest:Like I acted like, oh, did I say titty?
Guest:Like I did it like that.
Guest:Because he's not that much older than you.
Guest:So he was not some wise old strength making you say titty.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:But he was a guy who's, yeah.
Guest:Goofball.
Guest:So then I moved to Chicago for a second.
Guest:I didn't know his uncle owned the improv in Chicago.
Guest:Yeah, way back then.
Guest:And then moved to Chicago, and then I think maybe, I don't know, I'm messing up some stuff.
Guest:Then I moved to L.A.
Guest:and kind of was sucking in L.A.
Guest:because I was pretty green still.
Guest:I remember meeting with Rick Messina, Tim Allen's guy, and then Messina saw me because Mark Ridley said, you should see this kid, and he goes to me, you need to go check out the alternative scene.
Guest:uh that's where you need that's where you need to be so i remember going to a couple of those i mean you were i don't know but i went to a couple of the alternative things and maybe it's because i grew up so blue collar yeah so horse townish yeah i i couldn't relate to any of them
Guest:You know, I mean, I couldn't, like, I would watch that and I would go, this isn't, I don't, because when I was starting in Detroit, what happened was, you know, and this was pre-Deaf Jam, so the crowds were pretty mixed.
Guest:So I couldn't even fathom getting on stage with a notebook.
Guest:Are you kidding me?
Guest:those black guys in the crowd they would crush you you had to like show up like you knew your shit way before you got there if you're like what else do i got going on and pulling out phone bills trying to read a bit you i thought of this today is this funny like the alternative guys were i'd be like there's no way i would survive you know doing that so i just couldn't relate yeah i just couldn't yeah yeah yeah um they were they were just like no no
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:So I was in LA and I got a couple acting gigs or something like that.
Guest:But then there was a morning show in Detroit, a really popular morning show that- Radio?
Guest:Yeah, this Dick Pertin guy was leaving, going to another station.
Guest:So that radio station called me because I was a guest on Pertin Show and they wanted a local guy to go, would you be interested in doing this morning show with Danny Bonaduce?
Mm-hmm.
Guest:And I've never done radio before.
Guest:And he was in Detroit?
Guest:Was gonna be.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:And then they offered me more cash than I've ever seen.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:So I left my apartment in Los Angeles and went back to Detroit and ended up doing morning radio with Bonaduce for five or six years.
Marc:Holy fuck.
Marc:So that's okay.
Marc:So there you were.
Marc:See, this is like, you know, I know guys had done that.
Marc:I did radio myself, not for that long, but, you know, a couple of years.
Marc:But, you know, it's a weird choice to make because when you're a comic on a radio, you got to be, you're the side guy, right?
Marc:You're a support guy.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:But at that time, you know, regional radio, it wasn't even regional, it was local radio, right?
Marc:Was it syndicated?
Marc:Detroit.
Marc:No, just Detroit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:So this is Bonaduce's first radio show, right?
Marc:He's had a couple.
Marc:Oh, really?
Guest:He was doing well and then they would bring him in to, you know, help with the ratings.
Yeah.
Guest:But I have no, and if people aren't familiar with Danny Bonaduce, he has a very tough personality.
Marc:Right, but the deal is, as a comic, you're like, well, fuck, this is comedy.
Marc:This is something I can do.
Marc:Raise my profile a little bit.
Marc:But bottom line is, with radio, it's like, you got a contract.
Marc:You got a year's worth of money there.
Marc:But, you know, I don't imagine you knew just how much fucking work that would be and how much it would kill your ability to do comedy on weekends doing morning radio.
Guest:I was waking up at 3.30 in the morning.
Guest:I did it.
Guest:It's crazy.
Guest:Driving in snow, getting there, playing Celine Dion.
Guest:This is Celine Dion, Hanson.
Guest:You were doing music too?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Oh, it wasn't all talking.
Guest:No, we played $10.
Marc:Holy shit.
Marc:All right, so now you got, you know, Bonaduce doesn't know you.
Marc:And he hated me.
Guest:He hated me.
Guest:For five years, he hated you?
Guest:The first, he tried getting me fired a bunch, but then I started testing well.
Guest:People like... All right, so wait.
Guest:So tell me about how that goes.
Guest:So he doesn't know who they're going to hook him up with.
Guest:No.
Guest:He gave... They gave him to me.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:No, they gave me to him.
Guest:Right.
Guest:He had a sidekick in Chicago.
Guest:Oh, so he's bitter?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:He didn't want any.
Guest:He doesn't have his guy.
Guest:Yeah, it's like suddenly, you know, you get a sponsor and then they go, by the way, you're going to have this, this girl's going to be, and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Guest:That's radio though, right?
Guest:So what was the first week like?
Guest:Oh, it was, I wish I had it.
Guest:But I remember him going when we were done, going into an office, throwing a desk, yelling at our boss, saying, who hired the fucking mute to me?
Guest:The mute?
Guest:Oh, you weren't chiming in enough for him?
Guest:No.
Marc:Well, with Danny, like, you know, I don't know if you've ever done his show.
Marc:I've met him.
Marc:I did it when he was on Corolla.
Marc:I was on that show with him.
Marc:But see, the thing is, is that he's the sidekick.
Marc:Like, you know, he's a better sidekick than is your driver.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Well now, right.
Guest:Well, here's, here's me the first day.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:But one time I, I didn't know how to, I mean, there's an art, you know, between just kind of doing the little funny one liners and then leaving.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And I had, I had no idea.
Guest:You had just done radio as a comic.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And he hated me and he wouldn't talk to me.
Guest:And then he would ask you a story like, so what did you do this weekend?
Guest:And while you were talking, he would take his fist, put his fist on his head and turn his head and literally close his eyes while you're talking just to kind of de-ball you.
Guest:just to go and then go, wow, that was a riveting story.
Guest:Anyway, here's my, and then he would go.
Guest:So after, it was, it was tough.
Guest:It was tough.
Guest:We got, we got, I've said this story before.
Guest:We got in a fight.
Guest:He knocked me out, gave me a concussion.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Then I got a bunch of clear channel stock because I thought I was a good sidekick, not realizing you're probably not allowed to hit people that you work with.
Marc:Oh, so to avoid a lawsuit, thank you.
Guest:yeah yeah but I was so I mean I'm like 25 I had no idea I'm like I'm really funny I must be really funny that they gave me all this stock they were just protecting it they didn't even bring it up don't even put the idea in his head just give him stock just give him stock and you know what happened to that stock give him some personal appearance I think I sold it
Guest:Of course I sold it.
Guest:Keeping it being smart with cash.
Marc:So wait, now I just don't like you.
Marc:Because look, I had a partner on the air.
Marc:I was on the radio for a year and a half.
Marc:Him and I did fine together.
Marc:There was no resentment.
Marc:I don't think he wanted to be where he was.
Marc:But when we got on the air, we had juice.
Marc:We did a good show.
Marc:Off the air, we didn't socialize at all.
Marc:But now you're on the air with a guy that doesn't like you.
Marc:And you've got, and does the audience know that?
Guest:Yes.
Guest:And it actually made me more powerful in a weird, because he would go out.
Guest:He bullied you.
Guest:He bullied me so hard on the air.
Guest:So they start rooting for you.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And that actually made me.
Guest:And then in radio, they do these things where they would test you.
Guest:Like, so they would put you in a, you know, you talking in a focused perspective.
Guest:yeah yeah turn dials right where I started testing super well yeah we are a chick station and they all felt sorry for me right and so I tested well yeah he would go to Bonaduce he's not going anywhere people like him so then I forgot even what happened I think we got in a fight at Matchbox 20 concert this is where he clocked you no no he was gonna fight an entire row of people well what what what started the fight where he knocked you out
Guest:We were talking to Janet Jackson, and he said something wrong, read the paper wrong, and then he grabbed the producer and started choking out the producer as we're talking to Janet Jackson.
Guest:So he's literally on top of this mad guy.
Guest:So as Janet Jackson's talking,
Guest:i'm over here trying to grab danny off and then i would come back so it was like growing up with all those brothers and then i would jump back over trying trying to pull him and just in the melee i got punched right in the back of the head like really hard and then i ended up buying a vcr that day and in my the girlfriend at the time was like why'd you buy vcr like i didn't remember buying any of that
Marc:Oh, so you had a concussed.
Guest:You were concussed.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Yeah, so that was that.
Guest:And then we did something.
Guest:So he wanted to beat up a whole row of... Yeah, so we had Matchbox 20, and somebody said, you guys suck.
Guest:And then Danny takes off his shirt and says, let's go.
Guest:I'll fight the entire row.
Guest:Now, listen, we're at a Matchbox 20 concert.
Guest:Nothing pops off at a Matchbox 20 concert.
Guest:It's girls who drug their boyfriend or husband to the concert.
Guest:Right.
Guest:You're not gonna get in a fight.
Guest:And I kind of backed him up.
Guest:Did Danny MC the show, or was he there for it?
Guest:No, we were just there for free concerts, or maybe we had to do an appearance.
Guest:But for some reason, I think, I jumped into the scuffle with him, and that bonded us.
Guest:There was a moment, then the next day on the air,
Guest:He was, Heffern, you know, I never really thought, but Heffern got my back.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then ever since then, or after that, it was smooth sailing.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Or we'd play into the bullying.
Guest:Like, then it became almost like- It was a stick.
Guest:It almost became sticky.
Guest:Some boy shit brought you together.
Guest:Literally.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:That was it.
Guest:So then we all got canned from that thing.
Guest:And then I moved back to L.A.,
Guest:And then I was doing... How was your stand-up at this point?
Guest:Were you able to do any?
Guest:I was doing a lot of stand-up in Detroit.
Guest:Because of the radio.
Marc:We were monsters, yeah.
Marc:And Danny would go with you or what?
Guest:Sometimes he would host.
Guest:I was doing a lot still on the weekends.
Marc:Right.
Guest:Because I was 25.
Guest:I could handle it.
Marc:So you take a nap on Friday afternoon to go do Friday night show.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And then Saturday, you kind of have your shit together.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And I would bounce around.
Guest:There were still a lot of clubs at the time.
Marc:But you built a draw in Detroit.
Marc:Mm-hmm.
Guest:Uh-huh.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Put out my first CD and it was sold just a lot.
Guest:Really?
Guest:Only because- Regional.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Only because we were on a very popular show.
Guest:Right.
Guest:At the time.
Guest:And then I think I shot during that like a half hour special.
Guest:For Comedy Central.
Guest:Or something.
Guest:And then I moved back to LA.
Guest:To be a nobody again?
Guest:To be a nobody.
Guest:But now I'm a little bit... Now I have a little bit of money saved.
Guest:And because I was on the radio, I kind of felt like my ego was...
Guest:I didn't feel like a star, but I kind of had that confidence.
Guest:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Guest:Because people, you know.
Guest:Sure.
Guest:So my second time around L.A.
Guest:was way better because I would get on stage.
Guest:You could do it.
Guest:I'm a little bit older now and whatever.
Guest:And then I was performing in Florida where I ended up meeting my wife at the time.
Guest:She worked at a comedy club?
Guest:She worked at the construction company who built the comedy club.
Guest:Which club?
Guest:Tampa Improv.
Guest:Oh, yeah.
Guest:Down in the Ybor district?
Guest:Yeah, and I met her, and I was like, well, maybe I'll just move to Florida, and I'll just be a road guy.
Guest:Did Gary Menke have anything to do with it?
Guest:Yeah, no, no, I met him later.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And so I was kind of in that space.
Guest:You still married her?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And I was flying from Florida to Detroit, and then my old manager said, hey, you should audition for Last Comic.
Yeah.
Guest:And then I go, well, I'll be in Nashville.
Guest:Was that the second season?
Guest:Second season.
Guest:So what year was that?
Guest:It seems like 1976, but 2005.
Guest:Okay.
Guest:You're going to be in Nashville.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So then I went to Nashville.
Guest:The Zanies?
Guest:Yep.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then audition.
Guest:But I was like, well, maybe if I make the first show, at least that's another TV credit.
Guest:Well, you taped it, you mean?
Guest:Or they were there?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:They were there for the auditions.
Guest:They had that whole where you get on stage.
Marc:Oh, so they were going to be in Nashville, and you just blew up there.
Guest:Yeah, I was going to Michigan anyway, so I decided I'll pop in.
Guest:I'll just audition for it, and then I'll go to Michigan.
Guest:Then I just kept staying on it.
Guest:How did that work?
Marc:I didn't watch any of them.
Marc:You won yours, right?
Marc:Okay, so you go to the first audition, and they go, okay, you're in.
Marc:They tape that shit.
Marc:So everything's taped all the way through, right?
Guest:It ended up being live.
Guest:So they would go, okay, you'd go on to New York, and then out of that 50...
Guest:Then they would narrow that down to 20.
Guest:And then out of that 20, got narrowed down to 10.
Guest:And that's when they start to show.
Guest:And then they went into the house.
Guest:I was on, the season I was on was Todd Glass, Kathleen Madigan, Alonzo Bowden.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Bonnie McFarlane.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Corey Holcomb.
Guest:Right.
Guest:And Gary Goldman and Tammy Pascatelli.
Marc:They're all working comics at that time.
Marc:That was the interesting thing about Last Comic Standing.
Marc:Everybody was kind of... Yeah.
Guest:Our season was the first... The season before was people who had no TV credits.
Marc:Right.
Guest:And then I think our season, everybody had something.
Guest:I think I did a Tonight Show before.
Marc:Yeah, but I don't remember who the first season was, but I guess they wanted people that could do the job all the way through.
Marc:I mean, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Comedy is not one of those things where you want a newbie.
Marc:Yeah, because they only got a seven minutes.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:And then you're going to go see that guy live and just be...
Guest:Really bored about seven minutes into the act.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Right.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So you go through all that bullshit.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:How much of that was staged?
Marc:As far as... I mean, you got to live in the house and there's like conflict.
Marc:I can't speak to it that well because I didn't watch it, but I mean... Yeah, there was house stuff.
Guest:I mean, I have a buddy that produces a lot of reality shows and they didn't do half of the stuff that they do now.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But I remember...
Guest:you know, on ours, because we were pretty boring in the house.
Guest:You know, comics, like, there wasn't any drama where they would start creating a little... Oh, you got his aunt to make drama.
Guest:Yeah, exactly.
Guest:And he was there and he caused a lot, but he can only do so much.
Guest:So then I remember them, like, busting the air conditioning on purpose.
Guest:So it just got hot and everyone, or they would start taking food or try to get people booed up.
Marc:It's just so funny that people have this assumption about comics, but it's like, you know, we like to just hang out.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Even if you don't like the guy, you're not necessarily in that guy's face.
Marc:You just go, I don't like that guy.
Marc:You used to be in condos with people you don't know or you don't like.
Marc:You fucking do your own thing.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:It's a very interesting life.
Marc:And then they had to manufacture all this shit.
Marc:So you jump through all these hoops and you win.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:And you won some money.
Guest:I didn't win.
Guest:My season, there wasn't money.
Guest:You got a thing called a talent hold.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it was $50,000, right?
Marc:You didn't get that money.
Guest:Well, we got union scale after union for being on the show every day.
Guest:There was some union like 400 bucks, right?
Guest:So everybody on the show, if you were the 10 who made it in the house, everybody made $22,000.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:That was just union scale.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:They subtracted my 22 from my 50.
Guest:From the 50 that I won from my deal.
Guest:So I won a $50,000 talent hold.
Guest:Minus 20.
Guest:Then they minus the 22 from that 50.
Guest:That's why they had to do that in some dirty business way.
Guest:I got $4,500 out of $50,000.
Guest:Holy fuck.
Guest:$47,000.
Marc:4,700?
Guest:Yeah, 4,700 bucks.
Marc:Because you were entitled to that from doing the work.
Marc:So I don't know how they would cancel that out on a holding deal.
Marc:It was just some company.
Marc:Who was it, NBC?
Guest:NBC, who wasn't going to do anything.
Guest:We actually, right after Last Comic, went into NBC, and they go, yeah, we're not doing anything with anybody from that show.
Marc:So they subtracted the money that you earned from the money that usually is, you know, $50,000 holding deal means like, you know, for a year, you know, we might integrate you.
Guest:We might let you audition for friends.
Marc:But they took that money out.
Guest:Did you fight that?
Guest:That's how it was.
Guest:It was like a record deal where they like, yeah, loan.
Guest:That was Cats, right?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And then the other seasons, I think everybody won like quarter of a million.
Guest:or something but my season was was and here's a little thing so then they had so we're season two then they had season three because it was really popular yeah they started season three two weeks two weeks after season two not even a full year right so i was supposed to do a bunch of tv like ellen in some sitcoms as the winner and or people who saw me on the show and go we would like to have yeah yeah then last comic said
Guest:John can't do any of that stuff because that would put him at an advantage over everyone who was on season three.
Guest:So I wasn't allowed to do anything after being, you know.
Guest:But you weren't going back.
Guest:What does that mean?
Guest:I had to go back to season three.
Guest:I went again.
Guest:I had to start all over again.
Guest:That was part of the deal?
Guest:Yeah, because I was still signed or whatever with Last Comic for a year.
Guest:From the $50,000 holding deal?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:So I had to start competing again.
Guest:Now you've just seen me 11 weeks, and now people are done with me, and then they wouldn't put me in promos.
Guest:Not that I win it again or cared, but I wasn't allowed to do anything.
Marc:So the idea was that the winner keeps competing?
Marc:Because that didn't stick, did it?
Guest:No, they did season one versus season two is what season three was.
Guest:Huh.
Guest:So, I'm not bitter about that.
Guest:But I couldn't do anything from the spoils of actually being on network television for 12 weeks.
Guest:I didn't get to parlay that.
Guest:Into anything?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Other than, but the road work.
Guest:But then I went on the road, you know, money went up a bazillion.
Guest:I was, you know, doing a lot of corporate.
Guest:So, and that's really...
Guest:If I was to make any mistakes over the last couple years, I kind of got addicted to making a little bit of money, and I should have stayed home.
Guest:I should have went, okay, I'm going to go.
Guest:I'm going to audition.
Guest:I'm going to try to develop.
Guest:I was just like, you know.
Guest:I gotta be on the road.
Marc:Let's just keep it because this will one day go away Yeah, I know but but you know ticket sales are real the other stuff.
Marc:You know, it's hypothetical Yeah, but yeah, so you you were able to when did you feel it?
Marc:How many years did it take it for it to start to wane?
Marc:If it did wane as far as well, I mean like, you know, you got the juice, you know from last comic standing you're selling tickets Yeah, did the money start, you know, no, we can't give you as much as we did the last time Yeah, how long a year two years?
Guest:No, I held on for a long time, but it's, you know, and then it shifted.
Guest:Like, I wasn't doing that much corporate stuff, and then now suddenly I'm doing a lot of corporate stuff, like for really big companies.
Marc:So, okay, so you were able to do mainstream comedy clubs as the winner of last comic standing and sell tickets, and people were happy to see you.
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:A couple years of that, maybe the draw starts to diminish a little bit, you're making a little less money, and then you start doing more corporates.
Guest:Yes.
Marc:See, I haven't talked to anybody that does corporates.
Marc:I mean, I imagine I do talk to people that do it, but I don't tell you about it.
Marc:It's an area that I never got into, but it is a legitimate way that comics make money.
Marc:What's expected of you?
Marc:How does that work?
Marc:I do a bunch of different stuff.
Marc:And that's where the last comic standing thing still means something.
Marc:This guy, you know, he won the last comic.
Guest:Because corporates, because I've done, what, I have three specials out in like five Tonight Shows and last comics.
Guest:So I have enough TV credits to keep me going for a while in the corporate world.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Um, so it changes.
Guest:Like I did one for Jim Beam where I hosted their three day event and I would go on stage for five minutes and go, here's regional sales director.
Guest:And then I do would get up and go, here's our numbers.
Guest:And he would talk for an hour.
Guest:Then when he was done, I'd come back out and go, we're going to break for lunch.
Guest:So it's literally go full circle.
Guest:Like, so, you know, you're an MC and you're doing and try not to fuck up Jerry Grossman's intro.
Guest:And now I'm introducing the CEO going, oh, I hope I don't mess up this one.
Guest:It's the same thing.
Guest:They open for T-Rex.
Guest:But now just the money.
Guest:Now the money's changed.
Marc:That's all.
Guest:Or, you know.
Marc:You make good money on corporate, right?
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:Or I'll do one so I'll just walk out and I'll be there after dinner mint where 2,000 people just got done eating and you just go up and- What do you do, 20?
Guest:You do an hour?
Guest:I do 45.
Guest:I try to always talk them down to 45 where I go, listen, these guys want to get back to the room, hit back page, and get hookers.
Guest:Nobody wants to hear me for an hour.
Guest:That's excessive.
Guest:But I've done it.
Guest:It's the corporate money.
Guest:I just did a show with Gaffigan where I think it was like 6,000 people.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:The corporation just hired me to open.
Guest:For Jim.
Guest:For Jim.
Guest:And it's great.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:It's kind of like, you know, I talked to some, you know, comic friends that kind of like, oh, that corporate thing, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Guest:To me, it's the same thing when comics romanticize.
Guest:Sometimes you got to have a tough crowd and you go and do these late night spots.
Guest:It's the same exact feeling because you're looking at guys in suits who don't want to be there.
Marc:And they were with everybody they work with too.
Marc:There's a power structure there.
Marc:yeah like they got to look to see who's laughing at what but yeah i mean if you're you know pretty clean and you're not pushing any buttons you know but i imagine that you're dealing with a lot of nervous people who were there with their bosses and it's a fucking weekend and it depends on the the company like yeah yeah money guys notoriously suck like those shows if i if i hear their financial or whatever i'm like this is gonna be hard why do you think that party why oh yeah of course because they know how to spend the company's money it's
Marc:The other guys, one's trying to save the company's money.
Marc:The other ones are like, let's spend the fucking money.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's weird the ones you do.
Guest:Like I've done, like I did Sonic Company, that hamburger.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:There's Mercedes, all these huge.
Guest:And then you all end up doing something that's like the canning institute.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And it's a thousand people that just develop cans.
Guest:I just did that.
Guest:And you're like, what?
Guest:You get there and they're all some of them.
Guest:Sometimes you do shows where you look at the crowd and they're all 70 year old men and stuff.
Guest:So, but you just kind of go, how'd you do with the canning Institute?
Guest:Did well.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I have found if you bitch about your wife, that that goes across the board.
Guest:You can be in front of 200 guys that are venture capitalists that make a shit ton or, you know,
Guest:the car washing union, they all relate to the same thing.
Marc:They all want to hear, yeah, complaining about wives is universal, is what you're saying.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:What do you think it is, though, that money guys don't laugh like sales guys?
Guest:I don't know.
Guest:It's like, or if you do tech stuff, like I've done tech companies, it's just the different, they all have different ways to be talked to or different realities.
Marc:They don't know how to complain about their wives.
Marc:Or they don't have wives.
Marc:Or they've never had wives.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:Or yeah, or they were kids.
Guest:I have a stepdaughter mm-hmm Air Force 19, but no kids mm-hmm.
Guest:She's in the Air Force.
Guest:Yeah, just grad we just went saw her at boot camp.
Marc:She's graduated Wow, really cool, and you live in LA you live over here in the valley So so what do you do now?
Marc:You just kind of you're just riding it out.
Guest:You're trying to get corporates you're trying to do you know, you know, I'm at that weird, you know seeing
Guest:what's cool now i think with technology and stuff that you can if you create a niche you could do really well like you're like a great example of that where back in the day you had to be on a network yeah to be a star maker yeah but now there's guys that are just you know one of us or it's kind of like comics that became made men yeah you know uh like like
Guest:You could, if you flip that switch and go, you know what?
Guest:These are my five favorite comics.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:I'm doing a tour.
Guest:We need to.
Guest:Right.
Guest:Now you've made those guys.
Guest:You have that power.
Guest:Rogan has that power.
Guest:You know, there's a lot of those guys that have powerful podcasts that go, here's my clan.
Guest:Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, I'm not a clan guide, but I know what you mean.
Guest:But in that, like I said earlier, that's one of my thing is because... Weren't you in the Rogan clan briefly?
Marc:Briefly.
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:And people came to my shows...
Marc:because of that which what normally my crowd is usually 40 year olds yeah that just like well our kids didn't have soccer or cheerleading so i guess i'll have to take my wife out right that's exactly my look i i'm cultivating an audience that likes me and they're not really specifically aged but i like having uh audiences that know me and that are mature people yeah i i'm much rather that than just sort of winging it for a room full of fucking random comedy yeah exactly
Marc:And you have a podcast now, right?
Guest:I was doing a podcast with John Reap, who's a comic, who was on the last comic.
Guest:Super nice guy.
Guest:Our show sounded really 80s morning show, but we did that on purpose.
Guest:And I kind of lost the scene.
Guest:Like, you have a niche.
Guest:Everybody who has really good podcasts have a niche.
Yeah.
Guest:Me and John, we were funny with each other, but there wasn't like, hey, did you read in the news?
Guest:It was kind of that.
Guest:So I'm kind of out of the podcast game because I don't know.
Guest:What was your first podcast?
Guest:See, I have the same problem with the TED Talk or the podcast.
Guest:I need a theme.
Marc:That's all.
Marc:What do we got?
Marc:What do we come up with?
Guest:We got to figure out.
Guest:Maybe I'll just stick in that.
Marc:Well, I mean, you got the wife thing, right?
Marc:That's the thing, right?
Marc:The complaining about your wife.
Marc:But I mean, that's not necessarily completely unique territory.
Marc:Right, right.
Marc:But, you know, so you're just hitting a wall with that, huh?
Marc:Yeah.
Marc:Yes.
Guest:But I'm doing that.
Guest:I'm in a weird, a happy place, but a weird kind of that, like, agent-wise, I make enough money, but I don't cause problems.
Guest:problems so I'm that I always say I'm the guy who pays for my agency's lights you know like I'm that like listen Heffern really doesn't give us any problems he's consistent we're gonna spend our time on the guys who hands we have to hold and the new people
Guest:like those are the two people right you're just a workhorse i'm the i'm that i've turned into my dad i'm just that teamster guy that goes well he doesn't sell super well but he sells well enough yeah to have him back in system do you ever go back to detroit you ever think about like you know i do you ever like think about buying property in that city now that it's a nickel it's i look at constantly i'm looking at acreage in michigan and trying to convince my wife the winners aren't that bad we can go off the grid yeah i'll buy 30 acres
Guest:Because you can get it for nothing, right?
Guest:I'll go on the road 15 weeks a year.
Guest:It's got to come back, right?
Marc:Doesn't it have to come back?
Marc:I mean, you can't just junk a whole city.
Marc:I don't know what Detroit's like, but I got to assume that there are artists and people who are trying to... In the city of they are, but the suburbs, there's just really no industry.
Guest:Luckily, I'm in an industry where I can live anywhere and it doesn't really matter.
Guest:And she's not buying it.
Guest:no i i don't know if i could go back to cold oh yeah yeah um so i'm doing that and then i'm getting ready to shoot another special um hour yeah how many hours you put out uh i have three specials yeah and you self-produce them or what are you doing
Guest:uh the all the other ones i've done through other people this this one i'm thinking about self-producing because you know i've done specials you know that comedy central and that i've had on my website where they say you need to take that off right i get in trouble on youtube yeah for playing myself that's right or every i have like four comedy cds i only get money from one really yeah so so now it's kind of like i might just do my own and you know
Marc:That's the way to do it.
Marc:I just did a special for Netflix.
Marc:But the thing about the special for me is if you can get the money right up front, it's like, how much is it really going to make you after a year or two?
Marc:None.
Marc:Probably none.
Guest:Yeah, right.
Guest:Or do you feel like doing even a new special and throwing that out to the universe, do you think that even helps anymore?
Guest:Look, they're going to give me the money up front.
Guest:Yeah, so you go for money up front.
Guest:That's kind of, I'm teetering.
Marc:I mean, I did several half hours.
Marc:I did two half hours for Comedy Central, and I've done four CDs.
Marc:I mean, what's it really worth to me two years from now?
Guest:Really?
Guest:And plus, you look back at that special, or at least I look back at mine and go, what was I thinking?
Guest:Why did I do that stuff that way?
Marc:Yeah, I know.
Guest:You're constantly, hopefully evolving where you look at all your stuff.
Guest:Or some jokes get better.
Guest:As time goes on.
Guest:I've only written, I have three jokes that I've done my entire act.
Guest:Not three jokes, but like in the thing where I go, remember when I'm getting older and relationship.
Guest:right so those three there's your ted talk those three things you got the the the 11 minutes of fame yeah and and the the three i got the three things listen you can make it through life with only yeah threes are important you had the the pot the booze and the coke tears yes and now you've got the what are the three remember when yeah i'm getting older and relationship you know and then what i do is on each one of those i have hours
Guest:you know of each yeah and then i just will look at my watch and go i think for the first 15 minutes i'm going to talk about growing up and then the next 15 and i kind of so that's why every show i do yeah it's not it's not always it's not the same because it's kind of
Guest:Right.
Marc:I just feel like you have a structure for it.
Guest:It's just like, oh, there's a different growing up story.
Guest:But then you reach the stage as a comic where you're like, you're like, I want to do something.
Guest:But suddenly, if you came and saw me, there's no way I could be political because I'm just not smart enough.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:But if you're used to seeing me and then then you see me and I'm really opinionated.
Marc:Yeah.
Guest:You'd be like, whoa.
Guest:Hey, like this isn't this isn't why we come and see you all the time.
Guest:You're not an aggravated guy.
Guest:No, but I think I need to be.
Guest:I think I need to spice it up.
Guest:Sometimes I'm usually in a good mood and try not to be a pain in the ass.
Marc:Are you angry?
Guest:That's the problem.
Guest:I've become so comfortable with just going, well, it is what it is, but I need to be agitated a little bit.
Guest:I tried doing it at clubs where, like, when I would work with people, I would watch their show and find something that pissed me off that they were doing to use that energy to get on stage and be a little bit pissed.
Guest:Yeah, yeah.
Guest:And then it's, you know.
Marc:It just goes away.
Guest:And then I'm like, why am I shitting on this kid?
Guest:He doesn't know.
Guest:And then you don't know whether you should be that guy to say anything.
Marc:Right.
Guest:When you see somebody doing something, you know.
Yeah.
Guest:Before, because some guys go, some comments go, who gives a fuck what people do in front of you?
Guest:Just get up.
Guest:Other times, you get, for me, you get lazy and you just want to be controlling.
Marc:Well, yeah, you know, I learned, that's a weird lesson to learn.
Marc:It's like, do you use the last guy to bust balls to get in in that first five?
Marc:You know, it can hurt some feelings sometimes.
Guest:Yeah, I don't, I just shut up.
Marc:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marc:I just shut up.
Marc:I like the idea of the angle of the act is you're conflicted about being angry.
Marc:Like, you're angry that you're not more angry.
Yeah.
Marc:Yeah, like I should be upset about this, but I'm not.
Marc:What the fuck is wrong with me?
Guest:Yeah, because when I see comics, young guys are asking questions in front of me for some reason.
Guest:That's the thing that if I hone in on it, I'll start to get really pissed.
Guest:I'll never say anything to the comic.
Guest:What, you mean on stage asking questions?
Guest:Yeah, nothing bugs me more.
Guest:What do you mean?
Guest:So you guys, anyone here ever been to Ohio?
Guest:Yeah.
Guest:Yeah, everybody ever been to like Cedar Point yeah, hello.
Guest:Yeah ever get on the demon drop ride I was on the demon drop ride and I shit my well do just say you're on a ride and you shit yourself Yeah, I mean you don't need to go how many people have you know
Guest:that's which because i ask yes i literally at my shows i want the audience to not have to do any work right just be entertained yeah so i'm not going to ask you yeah you guys ever yeah yeah have you ever done this have you ever seen have you ever the one question he didn't ask is how many other people shit themselves see i'm the only one yeah yeah that's funny or get right to that and then when i get on stage and go so was this oh yeah i do that yeah i didn't ask you you know so it kind of he opened up the door to an interactive experience and you just want to do your act yeah
Marc:Well, it was great talking to you, man.
Marc:Well, thank you so much.
Marc:I'm glad we had this chat.
Marc:He's getting to know you.
Marc:We never really talked, and now we know each other.
Marc:Nice.
Marc:And I wish you the best of luck with everything.
Marc:Thank you so much.
Marc:Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with John Heffron.
Marc:I had a good time talking to him.
Marc:And before I forget, he discussed a book he was working on that was coming out, and it's out.
Marc:The book is out.
Marc:John Heffron's book, I Come to You from the Future, Everything You'll Need to Know Before You Know It.
Marc:Hashtag relationships, hashtag money, hashtag career, hashtag life.
Marc:is out.
Marc:And you can get it wherever you get books.
Marc:Amazon, the paperback is out.
Marc:The Kindle version is out.
Marc:If you want to get John Heffron's book as a gift or for yourself, good.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Go to WTFPod.com for all your WTFPod needs.
Marc:Check the merch.
Marc:The merch is coming.
Marc:Christmas presents are coming.
Marc:Get yourself some JustCoffee.coop.
Marc:Get the app.
Marc:If you're new to the game here, you can only hear the most recent 50 for free.
Marc:Then you got to kick in.
Marc:Got to get that free app and then upgrade to the other app.
Marc:And you can listen to all 400 and whatevers.
Marc:All right.
Marc:So relax.
Marc:All right.
Marc:Thanksgiving is done now.
Marc:or it's just about to happen.
Marc:All right, listen, if you're just heading in, if it's family time and you're just heading in, perhaps you're on the plane or in the car driving over, all right, put on your gear, put on your emotional gear, fortify your boundaries, because they're coming at you, man.
Marc:The family is coming at you, and they know your buttons.
Marc:All right?
Marc:So maybe you should just make sure that the cover to the console is reinforced and that you're pleasant and you're not ready to engage.
Marc:All right?
Marc:Act like you're better than you are.
Marc:Don't give them an in.
Marc:Why can't I just say have a good time with your family?
Marc:Why do I assume that you people know what I'm talking about?
Marc:When I'm talking the way I'm talking.
Marc:Why?
Marc:Because we're close.
Marc:We are.
Marc:We're close.
Marc:Some of you are healthy, but I'm not talking to you.
Marc:You just go now.
Marc:Just leave now.
Marc:Just quit listening.
Marc:Go enjoy your family.
Marc:The rest of you, fucking, you know, put on your helmet and
Marc:The best way, just act like you're doing much better than you are.
Marc:And sell it.
Marc:Sell it.
Marc:All right, don't let him in.
Marc:Be polite.
Marc:Don't let him in.
Marc:I don't want you leaving crying.
Marc:All right?
Marc:All right.
Marc:Godspeed.
Marc:Boomer lives!
Boomer lives!
you